Banco Bradesco SA (BBDO) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, everyone. I am Marcelo Noronha. I am speaking straight from Bradesco's headquarters to present some details on the results for the third quarter of 2025. I think you've had the opportunity to read the results that were published last night. I think you had the opportunity to read it and just see a few things related to our results.

各位早安。我是馬塞洛·諾羅尼亞。我現在正在布拉德斯科銀行總部，為大家介紹2025年第三季業績的一些細節。我想你已經有機會閱讀昨晚公佈的結果了。我想您應該有機會閱讀一下，並了解一些與我們的研究結果相關的內容。

So I'll start by saying that our recurring net income was BRL6.2 billion this quarter. That means that it was up 2.3% year on year or was up 0.1 percentage points, posting 14.7%. So we had a very sound consistent results considering everything that we've been saying to you in the past seven quarters. This was after our transformation plan.

首先我要說的是，本季我們的經常性淨收入為 62 億雷亞爾。這意味著它同比增長了 2.3%，或者說增長了 0.1 個百分點，達到 14.7%。所以，考慮到過去七個季度我們一直向你們強調的所有內容，我們取得了非常穩健且穩定的業績。這是在我們實施轉型計劃之後的事。

So basically, here, we are talking about profitability. So profitability maintains gradual growth and secure growth with operating consistency. All you have to do is look at all the lines. Revenues continue to grow in almost all lines, NII and NII net of provisions, fee and commissions income, the insurance group and other related companies, and the highlight goes to client NII.

所以，基本上，我們在這裡討論的是獲利能力。因此，獲利能力在營運穩定性的前提下保持穩定成長和安全成長。你只需要看看所有的線。幾乎所有業務線的收入都在持續增長，淨利息收入和扣除準備金後的淨利息收入、手續費和佣金收入、保險集團和其他相關公司的收入均有所增長，其中客戶淨利息收入尤為突出。

Delinquency rates remain under control. The restructured portfolio comes down, as you will see further on. And our secured portfolio rose quarter on quarter, reaching almost 60%. Operating expenses are in line with expectations and very much contained. Expenses are under control, and I will elaborate further on that topic. And we also anticipated our footprint adjustment and the numbers are higher than expected. And once again, we were able to deliver a sound performance of the insurance group with ROAE over 21%.

拖欠率仍處於可控範圍內。正如您將在後面看到的那樣，重組後的投資組合規模有所下降。我們的擔保投資組合季增，達到近 60%。營運費用符合預期，並且控制得很好。費用控制在合理範圍內，我稍後會就此問題進一步闡述。我們也預料到了業務規模的調整，但實際數字高於預期。我們再次實現了保險集團的良好業績，ROAE超過21%。

This slide brings a bit more details. Our total revenue was BRL30 billion, up by 13.1% year on year. Total net interest income, almost 9 -- almost 7 -- 4% growth; fee income, almost 7% growth; and the insurance group grew 13% year on year. That shows continuous growth.

這張投影片提供了更多細節。我們的總收入為 300 億雷亞爾，年增 13.1%。淨利息收入總額成長近 9%—近 7%—4%；手續費收入成長近 7%；保險業務年增 13%。這表明持續增長。

So what do we attribute this growth to? I mean, penetration in the customer base, I will revisit this slide further on. Because if we didn't have any penetration in our base for individuals and corporate with consistent improvement of customer experience in all business segments, we wouldn't be able to post constant growth in all of these revenue lines as you could see from this slide.

那麼，這種增長應該歸因於什麼呢？我的意思是，關於客戶群的滲透率，我稍後會再詳細討論這個問題。因為如果我們無法在個人和企業客戶群中實現持續滲透，並且無法在所有業務領域不斷改善客戶體驗，我們就無法像您從這張投影片中看到的那樣，在所有這些收入領域實現持續成長。

And now, moving on to our loan portfolio, remember, it was BRL1.34 billion. Again, consistent growth, 9.6% year on year. And now here, without going into a lot of details, but further on, we will give you more specific details. So growth, both in individuals and corporate, are more related to secured lines. So you will also notice that the highlight is with micro and SMEs, so almost 25% growth year on year. And this is a very well managed portfolio with a lot of collateral because this is what will allow us to grow consistently over time.

現在，讓我們來看看我們的貸款組合，請記住，它是 13.4 億雷亞爾。再次實現持續成長，年增 9.6%。現在，我們先不贅述細節，稍後會提供更具體的細節。因此，無論是個人或企業，成長都與擔保信貸關係更為密切。所以您也會注意到，亮點在於微型企業和中小企業，較去年同期成長近 25%。這是一個管理非常完善、擁有大量抵押品的投資組合，因為這將使我們能夠隨著時間的推移持續成長。

So next slide zooms into some specific credit lines because these are growth levers. So what can we tell you about this? I mean, very sound commercial traction in all lines. If we didn't have a good customer base and penetration in that base, we wouldn't be able to grow this much.

下一張投影片將重點介紹一些具體的信貸額度，因為這些是促進成長的槓桿。那麼關於這件事，我們能告訴你們些什麼呢？我的意思是，所有產品線都取得了非常好的商業成功。如果沒有良好的客戶基礎和客戶滲透率，我們就無法發展到如此規模。

And the other element is the credit modeling in the business units that we created, including portfolio management, which you can see in the down -- the bottom part of the slide with a lot of machine learning, improved models. We hired more than 200 people to our credit BU. We did upscaling.And what we are noticing is that there is a constant evolution in all segments, not only individuals and SMEs, but also the retail bank -- I mean, the wholesale bank with all of the balances that this requires.

另一個要素是我們創建的業務部門中的信用建模，包括投資組合管理，您可以在投影片的底部看到，其中包含大量機器學習和改進的模型。我們為信貸業務部門招募了 200 多人。我們進行了規模擴張。我們注意到，所有細分市場都在不斷發展演變，不僅是個人和中小企業，還有零售銀行——我的意思是，批發銀行及其所需的各種資產負債表。

And now, I would also like to highlight a few points. I mean, Bradesco's payroll loan ended the quarter with almost BRL102 billion. Our share is approximately 14.2%. Among private banks, we are the largest one. We lost in these commercial disputes to public banks.

現在，我還想強調幾點。我的意思是，布拉德斯科銀行的工資貸款在本季末接近 1,020 億雷亞爾。我們的份額約為 14.2%。在私人銀行中，我們是規模最大的。在這些商業糾紛中，我們敗給了國營銀行。

But our public portfolio, 15.4% share -- I mean, social security, first of all, was 15.4%; public, 14.3%; and private 7.5%. We were very conservative in terms of granting private loans. But then further on, we can elaborate on this. But we put together a more restrictive credit policy at the very beginning because we didn't want to run into many risks.

但我們的公共投資組合佔比為 15.4%——我的意思是，首先，社會安全佔比為 15.4%；公共部門佔比為 14.3%；私人部門佔比為 7.5%。我們在發放私人貸款方面非常謹慎。但接下來，我們可以對此進行更詳細的闡述。但我們在一開始就制定了更嚴格的信貸政策，因為我們不想承擔太多風險。

So our policy is to work with the companies that we used to work in the past, and for the employees of these companies that were at least employed by the companies for a year. So in the first case, the level of delinquency for lack of payment was 12%. So this number is coming down. Operationally speaking, the market is oiling the wheel. So on average -- I'm not referring to any specific organization, but on average, the delinquency level in this particular portfolio for these new cohorts, is around 11%. And ours, it's 3%.

因此，我們的政策是與我們過去合作過的公司合作，並為這些公司工作至少一年的員工提供服務。因此，在第一種情況下，未付款的違約率為 12%。所以這個數字正在下降。從運作角度來看，市場就起到了潤滑作用。因此，平均而言——我並不是指任何特定的組織，但平均而言，這些新群體的這個特定投資組合的違約率約為 11%。而我們的是 3%。

So we didn't grow. I mean, that portfolio decreased on the private side year on year, and then year to date, as well. But then, when we look at the third quarter, the Central Bank just released the numbers for this portfolio for September. And, man, I think you can look at that. So we are resuming growth on the private side.

所以我們沒有發展壯大。我的意思是，該投資組合的私人資產部分同比下降，而且今年迄今為止的累積價值也下降了。但是，當我們查看第三季時，中央銀行剛剛公佈了該投資組合9月的數據。夥計，我覺得你可以看看。因此，我們在私人領域正在恢復成長。

Our policy is now a bit more open, but we are also growing on the public side. INSS, with all of the changes that were done in the first half of the year, went from a market production of BRL7.5 billion to BRL3.5 billion. And certainly, what is happening here since this was the largest portfolio among private banks? Our monthly settlement is higher.

我們的政策現在更加開放一些，而且我們在公共領域也不斷發展壯大。由於上半年進行了一系列改革，INSS 的市場產值從 75 億雷亞爾降至 35 億雷亞爾。當然，由於這是私人銀行中規模最大的投資組合，這裡究竟發生了什麼事？我們的月結算金額較高。

If you look at the Central Bank numbers, you see that there was a drop in the INSS portfolio, and now we will start growing again, meaning that we accelerated public portfolio and the expectation is to grow next quarter, and to grow next year consistently in all these lines, so security, public and private. And look at our share. So we don't have anything to lose. We always have to gain more. So this is the outlook. And credit cards, if you look at the numbers, we grew substantially in the high income line.

如果你看一下中央銀行的數據，你會發現INSS投資組合有所下降，現在我們將開始再次成長，這意味著我們加快了公共投資組合的成長，預計下一季將持續成長，明年所有這些領域（包括安全、公共和私人領域）都將持續成長。再看看我們的份額。所以我們沒有什麼好失去的。我們總是要追求更多。這就是目前的情況。從數據上看，信用卡業務在高收入者中實現了大幅成長。

In terms of real estate, our share is about 20%. There are three or four banks whose market share is slightly higher. But in the last quarter, I mean, this entire year, in general, we preserved margins. Now we see opportunities with also some modifications to accelerate real estate again.

就房地產而言，我們的份額約為 20%。還有三、四家銀行的市佔率略高一些。但就上個季度而言，我的意思是，就今年整體而言，我們保持了利潤率。現在我們看到了一些機遇，也看到了一些可以再次加速房地產發展的機會。

And rural portfolio, the portfolio of the bank loan grew 25% very collateralized or secured. SMEs, we are growing consistently quarter on quarter and year on year, almost 25% year on year and when we released the plan we anticipate that we would struggle to remain in that leadership position. I'm talking about companies that have revenue or banks that have revenues up to BRL200 million a year, and we gained share with SMEs as well.

農村投資組合，銀行貸款投資組合成長了 25%，其中大部分都有抵押或擔保。對於中小企業而言，我們每個季度和每年都在持續成長，年增長率接近 25%，而當我們發布計劃時，我們預計我們將很難保持這種領先地位。我指的是年收入達到 2 億雷亞爾的公司或銀行，我們也從中小企業中獲得了市場份額。

This is just to say that we will continue to grow. We will continue to grow our loan portfolio. And as a reminder, last year, we had a write-off of the restructured portfolio of almost BRL10 billion and large corporate growth. And large corporate, we didn't have that growth. And if everything were to remain stable, if there were no write-offs and if large corporate portfolio had not declined, our loan portfolio would have grown even more. So we are well positioned.

這只是想說明我們會繼續成長。我們將繼續擴大貸款組合。提醒一下，去年我們對重組後的投資組合進行了近 100 億雷亞爾的減值，其中包括大型企業成長。而大型企業，我們卻沒有那種成長。如果一切保持穩定，如果沒有貸款減記，大型企業貸款組合也沒有減少，那麼我們的貸款組合將會成長更多。所以我們已經佔據了有利位置。

We have the desired clients. We have demand, and we will continue to grow and we expect to gain market share in payroll loans. We will continue to grow real estate, SMEs because we gained market share. So we are -- we have a very good commercial traction and as a consequence our total NII grew almost 17% and the total NII net of provision grew 14.4% year on year. But when we look at client NII, we grew 19%. But when we talk about client NII net of provisions when you are balancing that portfolio with cost of risk, we grew 18% reaching almost BRL10 billion. And the expectation is continue to grow.

我們擁有理想的客戶。我們有市場需求，我們將繼續發展壯大，並期望在工資貸款市場獲得更大的市場份額。我們將繼續發展房地產和中小企業業務，因為我們已經獲得了市場份額。因此，我們擁有非常好的商業吸引力，因此我們的總淨利息收入成長了近 17%，扣除撥備後的淨利息收入較去年同期成長了 14.4%。但從客戶淨利息收入來看，我們成長了 19%。但當我們談到扣除撥備後的客戶淨利息收入，以及在平衡投資組合與風險成本時，我們成長了 18%，達到近 100 億雷亞爾。而且這種期望還在不斷增長。

Now speaking about expenses with LLP and we just had a press conference with journalists and they asked about this. BRL500 million of variation on the cost of credit quarter on quarter. There are two cases that justify this. First, there is a one-off case in our wholesale bank because we made provisions I mean, obviously, I cannot give out names. But if you look at the full publication and look at the provision phase, you will see that we have cost of credit for mass retail and wholesale.

現在來說說有限責任合夥企業的費用問題，我們剛剛召開了新聞發布會，記者們問到了這個問題。信貸成本季度季減 5 億雷亞爾。有兩個例子可以證明這一點。首先，我們批發銀行有一起特殊案例，因為我們做了準備……我的意思是，顯然我不能透露姓名。但如果您查看完整的出版物並查看供應階段，您會發現我們有大眾零售和批發的信貸成本。

But when you look at wholesale banking, it's about BRL200 million every quarter or BRL300 million. So they're certainly regular and this one goes from BRL200 million to BRL500 million approximately. So it was a one-off case. However, we could also grant credit in the middle which is also part of the wholesale banking. But once you offer certain facilities, you also have to call provisions beforehand.

但如果你看看批發銀行業務，每季大約是 2 億雷亞爾或 3 億雷亞爾。所以它們肯定是常規的，這筆交易的金額大約在 2 億至 5 億巴西雷亞爾之間。所以這只是個特例。但是，我們也可以在中間環節提供信貸，這也是批發銀行業務的一部分。但是，一旦你提供某些設施，你也必須事先做好安排。

So this is natural seasonality. But if we were to exclude that and also what was added to the John Deere Bank, this would be perfect. So the coverage level that we did for them put us on a -- still in a very comfortable position. This was a one-off case. And so we decided to make the necessary provisions and just move on because we want to continue to grow. And given that that is flat, the average cost is 3.2% rather than 3.3%. Therefore, no worries here because our portfolio is very good.

這是自然的季節性現象。但如果我們排除掉那部分以及添加到約翰迪爾銀行的金額，那就完美了。因此，我們為他們提供的保障水準使我們仍然處於非常有利的地位。這是個案。因此，我們決定做好必要的準備，繼續前進，因為我們想要繼續發展。鑑於該值保持不變，平均成本為 3.2%，而不是 3.3%。因此，您無需擔心，因為我們的投資組合非常優秀。

This slide, after long conversations with Cassiano, he's already here. And Andre likes to say, okay, this slide or this screen only comes with good news. I see a lot of good news here. But I would also like to comment on a particular issue because I got a question about it. If you look at this numbers down below, it goes from -- it goes down from 7.9% to 7.7% and Stage 1 growth and that is the portfolio with better quality. And this takes us to the restructured portfolio.

經過與卡西亞諾的長時間交談，他已經來到了這裡。安德烈喜歡說，好吧，這張投影片或這個螢幕只會帶來好消息。我看到這裡有很多好消息。但我還想就一個具體問題發表一下看法，因為有人問了這個問題。如果你看一下下面的這些數字，它從 7.9% 下降到 7.7%，這是第一階段的成長，也是品質更好的投資組合。這就引出了重組後的投資組合。

There is a drop of almost BRL10 billion year on year, which is quite significant because if you go back to the early months of 2024 above BRL12 billion. And even the loan portfolio improved. Look at what happened, the number is dropping in terms of our total portfolio. And another positive number is the level of secured portfolio. Almost 60% was the number that we reached. Therefore, we are doing a lot of things to come up with this kind of performance.

與去年同期相比下降了近 100 億雷亞爾，這相當顯著，因為如果回顧 2024 年初，數字將超過 120 億雷亞爾。就連貸款組合也得到了改善。看看發生了什麼，就我們的總投資組合而言，這個數字正在下降。另一個利好數字是已保投資組合的水平。我們達到的比例接近 60%。因此，我們正在採取許多措施來實現這樣的演出效果。

Delinquency is flat. There is a footnote here that says that -- I mean, over 90, there is a slight deviation, and this was also related to the John Deere Bank. But I don't see any issue here because they have other ways to finance their equipment in agribusiness companies. And this affects because we consolidate all the numbers. But if you look at the portfolio, it's absolutely under control, and this will certainly help us make things go forward and generate more revenue.

青少年犯罪率保持穩定。這裡有一個腳註說——我的意思是，超過 90 年後，出現了輕微的偏差，這也與約翰迪爾銀行有關。但我認為這裡沒有問題，因為農業企業還有其他方式可以為他們的設備融資。這會造成影響，因為我們把所有資料都合併在一起了。但如果你看一下投資組合，你會發現它完全在掌控之中，這肯定會幫助我們推進業務發展並創造更多收入。

Now fee and commission income. If we do not have commercial traction, if we cannot deliver a better experience to our customers and good and adequate relationship, we could never post a good fee income that grew almost 7% and the highlight comes from credit cards, almost 14%. And consortium management, we grew 22.1% year on year. But this product comes from customers at different levels, I mean, mostly corporate customers. Our rates are about 15% of the Selic rate. So it's very attractive.

現在包括手續費和佣金收入。如果我們沒有商業上的進展，如果我們不能為客戶提供更好的體驗和良好的客戶關係，我們就永遠無法取得近 7% 的良好手續費收入增長，其中信用卡收入增長最為顯著，接近 14%。財團管理方面，我們年增了 22.1%。但這款產品的客戶群涵蓋各個層次，我的意思是，主要還是企業客戶。我們的利率大約是Selic利率的15%。所以它非常有吸引力。

Asset management. I mean with these levels of growth, [brand] is a highlight. It reached BRL1 trillion of assets under management. And if you look on the right side, I will draw your attention to loan operations. I mean we are still traction.

資產管理。我的意思是，在這樣的成長速度下，[品牌]是一個亮點。其管理資產規模達1兆雷亞爾。如果您看向右側，我將帶您專注於貸款業務。我的意思是，我們仍然保持著成長勢頭。

And I'll draw your attention to our investment banking. Investment banking shows a drop of 29.9% because the baseline of the previous quarter was a growth of 75%. Therefore, if we look at year to date this year, it is growing 24.1%. And this is not de buying work because this involves growth in new teams, engaged teams. Certainly, also this involves pipeline generation coming from all different segments of the banks like wholesale, middle market in addition to custody and brokerage services, which also posted growth year on year.

我還要提請各位關註一下我們的投資銀行業務。投資銀行業務下降了 29.9%，因為上一季的基準成長率為 75%。因此，如果我們看一下今年迄今為止的情況，它的成長率為 24.1%。這不是採購工作，因為這涉及新團隊和積極參與的團隊的成長。當然，這也包括來自銀行各個不同部門的業務成長，例如批發業務、中端市場業務以及託管和經紀服務，這些業務也實現了同比增長。

Now operating expenses. Before coming to that, I would like to mention an adjustment to our footprint. We are moving even beyond what was anticipated for our footprint. This year, it was 1,269 points. And a year ago, in 12 months, 1,600 points. That means that we move forward, which is quite positive. And we are doing that, thanks to the talent of our team with a lot of intelligence backing it up, and this will be an ongoing trend.

現在來看營運費用。在此之前，我想先提一下我們對足跡的調整。我們的發展規模甚至超出了預期。今年是1269分。一年前，12 個月內，獲得了 1600 分。這意味著我們向前邁進，這是非常積極的。我們正在做到這一點，這要歸功於我們團隊的才華和強大的智慧支持，而這將成為一種持續的趨勢。

And when we talk about the guidance then for 2026, we will tell you what is our expectation for next year. Expenses are growing 9.6%. But also look that somebody asked me about that. Personnel expenses and admin expenses grew 5.5% year on year. If we were to eliminate the effect of variable -- higher variable compensation, our growth will be 2.5%.

屆時，當我們談到 2026 年的指導方針時，我們會告訴大家我們對明年的預期。支出成長了 9.6%。但你看，也有人問過我這個問題。人事費用和管理費用較去年同期成長 5.5%。如果我們消除浮動因素的影響——更高的浮動薪酬，我們的成長率將達到 2.5%。

Our expenses are absolutely under control, and I would like to draw your attention to one item. Without EloPar and Cielo, it would be 8.5% rather than 9.6%. But let me give you some additional information. And this is also posted in our full publication. I think you can find that on page 21, that's when we talk about operating expenses. But so looking at operating expenses, this is where we consolidate everything.

我們的開支完全在控制之中，我想提請您注意一件事。如果不計入 EloPar 和 Cielo，則為 8.5% 而不是 9.6%。但我還想補充一些資訊。本文也刊登在我們的完整版刊物中。我想你可以在第 21 頁找到相關信息，那裡我們討論了運營費用。但就營運費用而言，我們會將所有費用合併在這裡。

Admin expenses year to date and year-on-year posted negative growth, meaning that there was a decrease. But if you had the chance -- have the chance to look every single line, you will see that some expenses grow and some other decrease like transportation decreases. But there is a line that refers to technology. That technology line, if it didn't have any quarterly variation, we would decrease admin expenses in the quarter.

行政費用年初至今和年比均出現負成長，這意味著有所下降。但如果你有機會——有機會仔細查看每一行，你會發現有些費用增加了，而有些費用減少了，例如交通費減少了。但其中有一句話提到了科技。如果該技術線沒有季度波動，我們將減少該季度的管理費用。

But also this quarter, absolute growth was BRL140 million. I would like to draw your attention to one particular figure. So when we look at our balance sheet, we consolidate all of the associated companies. So when I take [Elo and Alelo], the growth of admin expenses is higher than 20%. So here, it goes up BRL140 million. I can tell you that a good part of that comes from these two companies because they affect us due to the equivalent. So expenses here are pretty much under control.

但本季，絕對成長量也達到了1.4億雷亞爾。我想請大家注意其中一個數字。所以，當我們查看資產負債表時，我們會將所有關聯公司合併在一起。所以當我考慮[Elo 和 Alelo]時，管理費用的成長高於 20%。所以，這裡上漲了1.4億雷亞爾。我可以告訴你，很大一部分原因在於這兩家公司，因為它們對我們產生了類似的影響。所以這方面的開支基本上都在控制之中。

Now personnel expenses. Cielo had no impact in the quarter when it comes to admin expenses. But then when I move to personnel expenses, Cielo posted growth of about 7% -- slightly over 7% in terms of personnel expenses. But if I am to exclude variable compensation and I look at fixed compensation, which appears in the first line of operating expenses, you will also notice that personnel expenses would fall to a number probably below 3% if we were not doing that equivalent with Cielo. Therefore, you have to take a snapshot and just think that we have consolidations that were also posted in the numbers.

現在來看人事費用。Cielo在本季對管理費用沒有造成任何影響。但當我查看人員費用時，Cielo 的人員費用成長率約為 7%——略高於 7%。但是，如果我排除可變薪酬，只看固定薪酬（出現在營運費用的第一行），您還會注意到，如果我們不與 Cielo 進行類似的合作，人員費用可能會降至 3% 以下。因此，你只需要截取一個快照，並認為我們已經將合併資料也發佈在了這些數字中。

So I can certainly say to you that our expenses are very much under control. Certainly, there was a higher impact in this result. This is, in our view, a positive expense. And there is another factor here because you have to adjust all your provisions when you have the collective bargaining agreement, which was higher than 100%. So it's very hard to index these personnel expenses. So we see expenses absolutely under control going forward, right?

所以我可以很肯定地告訴你，我們的開銷控制得非常好。當然，這結果的影響更大。我們認為這是一筆積極的支出。這裡還有另一個因素，因為當你簽訂集體談判協議時，你必須調整所有條款，而協議的執行率高於 100%。因此，很難對這些人員費用進行指數化管理。所以我們看到未來的支出完全在控制之中，對嗎？

So now the insurance group, as I had mentioned in the first slide, the net income is consistent. We continue to bring very good profitability when we look at year to date at 11.4% year on year, 6.5% growth with an ROE above 21%, as I mentioned with you. And I attract your attention to the operating results that guarantee the consistence of the insurance group's earnings with the total earnings growing at this level, year on year 13% operating results, 10.2%; financial 18.3%. So that's very consistent growth for the insurance group. And this is also not divine intervention.

所以現在，正如我在第一張投影片中提到的，保險集團的淨收入是穩定的。正如我之前跟你提到的，我們今年的獲利能力依然非常出色，年成長 11.4%，成長 6.5%，淨資產收益率超過 21%。請各位注意以下經營業績，這些業績保證了保險集團盈利的穩定性，總盈利同比增長 13%，經營業績同比增長 10.2%，財務業績同比增長 18.3%。所以，這家保險集團實現了非常穩定的成長。這也並非神蹟。

All of the customer segments and pretty much all lines have been growing, delivering positive variations year on year, but not only here in our customer segment, but also in all distribution channels that the insurance group has for the brokers, digital channels and I pointed at that now in our press conference. And the technical provisions reached a level of BRL435 billion with growth of 10.5%.

所有客戶群和幾乎所有產品線都在成長，逐年實現正成長，不僅在我們的客戶群中如此，而且在保險集團為經紀人提供的所有分銷管道、數位管道也是如此，我在新聞發布會上也指出了這一點。技術準備金達到 4,350 億雷亞爾，成長 10.5%。

Now moving towards the end of the presentation. Our capital, even with the growth of the loan portfolio, common equity grows 30 bps to 11.4%, and CET1 grows 0.4 percentage points, as you could see.

現在進入演講的尾聲。正如你所看到的，即使貸款組合有所增長，我們的資本也增長了 30 個基點至 11.4%，CET1 增長了 0.4 個百分點。

Now our guidance, I talk a little bit about this literally. If you look at that, we should move in the year when we closed the quarter to fall within the guidance, but at the higher interval in all items, including expenses. So considering everything that I told you about. So look, the loan portfolio, for example, from 4% to 8%, we're growing at 9.6%. So if you go there to our earnings presentation of the fourth quarter of '24, you see that we grew the portfolio quite well, BRL981 billion.

現在，讓我們來談談我們的指導原則，我稍微具體地談談這方面。如果仔細分析，我們本季末的業績應該能夠達到預期目標，但所有項目（包括費用）都應達到較高水準。所以，考慮到我剛才跟你說的所有事情。例如，貸款組合從 4% 成長到 8%，而我們的成長率為 9.6%。所以，如果你去看我們 2024 年第四季的收益報告，你會發現我們的投資組合成長得相當不錯，達到了 9,810 億雷亞爾。

If you look at the portfolio, that's BRL1.034 billion today and you put BRL16 billion of growth, the baseline takes us to BRL7.1 billion. So I'd say that we will grow between 7% and 8%, a little bit more maybe but with consistent growth in here. Also NII net of provisions in the upper levels of the interval and so on for each one of the items. All of them laying or falling in the higher end of our guidance. So we'll deliver the guidance at the end of this quarter.

如果你看一下投資組合，它目前是 10.34 億雷亞爾，如果你投入 160 億雷亞爾的成長，基準線將使我們達到 71 億雷亞爾。所以我認為我們會成長7%到8%，也許會更高一些，但會保持持續成長。此外，還需扣除區間上層部分的準備金，依此類推，計算每個項目的淨利息收入。它們都處於我們指導的較高水平。因此，我們將在本季末發布業績指引。

Now quick overview of our transformation process. We will have a more detailed view when we close the year. But we have been evolving very well in all of the aspects of individuals in each one of the segments. Bradesco Principal closed September with 41 offices and expanding still growing, and I'll talk more about that. I talked about the footprint exceeding expectations.

現在快速概覽一下我們的轉型過程。年底時，我們將有更詳細的分析。但是，我們在各個細分領域中，個人各個方面都取得了非常好的進展。Bradesco Principal 在 9 月底擁有 41 個辦事處，並且仍在擴張和成長，我稍後會詳細介紹。我談到了足跡超出預期的情況。

We launched global solutions and enable the platform to 100% of wholesale clients for our cash management. We have more than 11,000 people working with enterprise agility in our organization and also advancing quite quickly. And with everything we've been doing in IT and the intensive use of GenAI, our productivity in terms of development grew this year 109%.

我們推出了全球解決方案，並為我們的現金管理業務100%的批發客戶提供了平台。我們公司有超過 11,000 名員工從事企業敏捷性的工作，而且發展速度非常快。由於我們在 IT 領域所做的一切以及 GenAI 的廣泛應用，今年我們在研發方面的生產力成長了 109%。

Looking forward, for the next quarter into the next year as well. What we have here, I'll point four topics without getting into the details of each one of the items of our Mandala.

展望未來，包括下一個季度以及明年。接下來，我將重點介紹四個主題，而不會詳細介紹我們曼陀羅中的每個元素。

But first, Principal. We should close the year with 300,000 clients, approximately 62 offices in almost 40 cities in Brazil. And Prime has been evolving from its value proposition. We will already have 3 million customers, maybe slightly more than that. We have more than 14 million customers that are fully digital who no longer use physical point of service. They're also being supported by our Bradesco Expresso which grew and has more than 39,000 bank correspondents throughout Brazil in every city of Brazil and more than 5,600 municipalities in Brazil.

但首先，校長。到年底，我們預計將擁有 30 萬名客戶，在巴西近 40 個城市設有約 62 個辦事處。Prime的價值主張一直在不斷發展演變。我們將擁有300萬客戶，或許還會略多一些。我們擁有超過 1400 萬完全數位化的客戶，他們不再使用實體服務點。他們也得到了我們的布拉德斯科快捷銀行的支持，該銀行發展迅速，在巴西的每個城市和超過 5,600 個市鎮擁有超過 39,000 家銀行代理機構。

In SMEs, we saw traction that we have. Last quarter, I talked about the new app. We've expanded the app for small and micro companies. They can hire loans from Pronampe e Procredit directly on the app. It's a new very streamlined experience. And obviously, all of our segmentation process has been proving effective with growing penetration in this segment.

在中小企業中，我們看到了我們所取得的進展。上個季度，我談到了這款新應用程式。我們已將應用程式擴展到小型和微型企業。他們可以直接透過應用程式從 Pronampe 和 Procredit 獲得貸款。這是一種全新的、非常簡化的體驗。顯然，我們所有的細分流程都已被證明是有效的，在這個細分市場中的滲透率不斷提高。

And I would also like to point here at the bottom about our culture. So Bradesco or IM Bradesco. Last year, we showed that we had the survey with 74% of participants with high engagement levels. This year, we had 84% of all of our employees being engaged and answering a survey showing the evolution that we have in this aspect as well as all the other initiatives that we have in all of these different areas.

我還要在這裡強調一下我們的文化。所以是布拉德斯科銀行或IM布拉德斯科銀行。去年，我們的調查顯示，74% 的參與者俱有很高的參與度。今年，我們有 84% 的員工參與並完成了調查，這表明我們在這一方面取得了進步，也表明我們在所有這些不同領域都採取了其他措施。

Two pieces of information to conclude my presentation and to move on to the Q&A. I've been talking a lot about Gen AI. And now I said, well, I'm not going to talk about this anymore. I keep talking about this in all firms that I go to and here on the earnings presentation. So let's get BIA to talk to you.

最後還有兩點資訊需要補充，之後將進入問答環節。我一直在談論人工智慧世代（Gen AI）。然後我說，好吧，我不想再談論這件事了。我在去的所有公司，包括這裡的獲利報告會上，都會談到這一點。那麼，我們就安排BIA和您談談吧。

And I had a surprise when they brought me the video because they had an avatar that is the last time you're going to see this, okay? Next quarter, I will bring a new one that will be a lot nicer than the one that's going to talk to you right now. It's about a minute long. It's a very brief video. So let's have a look at it, and I'll come back for the conclusion. So please.

當他們把影片拿給我看的時候，我感到很驚訝，因為影片裡有個頭像，上面寫著“這是你最後一次看到這個了，好嗎？”下個季度，我會帶來一台新的，它會比現在跟你說話的這台好得多。時長約一分鐘。這是一個非常短的影片。那我們一起來看看，我稍後會給出結論。所以，拜託了。

(spoken by AI) Digital transformation through enterprise agility and the massive leverage of Gen AI is generating impressive results. Look at this. I can highlight four fronts of progress to you. First is the increase in productivity, hyperpersonalization, risk management and customer engagement and journey. We've already reached a productivity increase of 109% this year, and we built a new income model with a drastic reduction of 95% in the time to create an expressive increase in accuracy.

（人工智慧說）透過企業敏捷性和人工智慧的巨大優勢實現數位轉型，正在產生令人矚目的成果。看看這個。我可以向你重點介紹四個方面的進展。首先是提高生產力、實現高度個人化、加強風險管理以及提升客戶參與和體驗。今年我們的生產力已經提高了 109%，我們建立了一種新的收入模式，在創造準確率顯著提高的時間內，所需時間大幅減少了 95%。

At the same time, we increased security with sophisticated biometrics, and we offer hyper-personalized experience. And customer service has full engagement with 90% retention rate on BIA's chat and innovations such as fixed by voice. Here, Bradesco Gen AI goes beyond technology. It is a part of our transformation at the service of our customers and our business. So that's it.

同時，我們利用先進的生物辨識技術提高了安全性，並提供高度個人化的體驗。客戶服務部門與 BIA 的聊天和創新（例如語音修復）保持高度互動，客戶留存率高達 90%。Bradesco Gen AI 的理念超越了技術層面。這是我們為服務客戶和業務而轉型的一部分。就是這樣。

Thank you very much. Now it's back to you on the studio, real life Marcelo.

非常感謝。現在把鏡頭交還給攝影棚裡的你，現實生活中的馬塞洛。

That's a tough one, right? The next one will not be this avatar. We're going to have another one. So I'll head to my conclusions here, restating what I said at the beginning of the presentation about our commitment to increase profitability. We are getting close to the return on cost of equity. But step by step, as we said since the beginning of our plan, revenues is the main driver of profitability, increased expenses under control, credit portfolio with a balanced growth, always prioritizing risk-adjusted return.

這確實是個難題，對吧？下一個頭像不會是這個了。我們還要再辦一個。因此，我將總結一下，重申我在演講開始時所說的，我們致力於提高獲利能力。我們即將達到權益成本報酬率。但正如我們從計劃開始之初就所說的那樣，一步一步來，收入是盈利能力的主要驅動力，控制不斷增長的費用，保持信貸組合的均衡增長，始終優先考慮風險調整後的回報。

Risk appetite that I said at the end of last year remains moderate. But the delinquency rates, portfolios, vintages are completely under control. So we have a lot of traction in the brand bank, change the bank, and we're confident that we will have a good quarter at the end of this year, and we will also have good quarters next year, 2026.

我在去年年底所說的風險偏好仍然保持溫和。但違約率、投資組合、貸款年份都完全在控制之中。因此，我們在品牌銀行、變革銀行方面取得了很大的進展，我們有信心在今年年底取得一個不錯的季度業績，明年（2026 年）的季度業績也會不錯。

So now, I invite you for the Q&A with my colleagues, Cassiano Scarpelli, CFO; and our colleague, Andre Carvalho, IR Director. So Andre, over to you. Thank you.

現在，我邀請您參加與我的同事們的問答環節，他們是財務長卡西亞諾·斯卡佩利，以及我們的同事、投資者關係總監安德烈·卡瓦略。安德烈，現在輪到你了。謝謝。

Thank you, Marcelo, Cassiano. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to remind you that our CEO of the insurance group, Ivan Gontijo is participating remotely.

謝謝你，馬塞洛，卡西亞諾。很高興能和你們在一起。各位早安。我想提醒各位，我們保險集團的執行長伊凡·貢蒂霍將遠程參加。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Vaz.

（操作說明）丹尼爾·瓦茲。

Thank you, Andre. Good morning, Noronha, Cassiano, everyone. So I'd like to talk a little bit about cost and this overview of the footprint that you accelerated a lot over the last two years. So closing a lot more service points that were expected, both in 2024 and '25. I think you accelerated even beyond those targets. So my doubt is about 2026. Should we expect the same pace of closing? Or is the trend going to change focus to reap operating efficiency to move towards that goal of 40%, down from 48% when you were announcing the strategic plan?

謝謝你，安德烈。早安，諾隆尼亞、卡西亞諾，大家好。所以我想稍微談談成本，以及你們在過去兩年大幅加快推進的業務佈局概覽。因此，2024 年和 2025 年將關閉比預期更多的服務點。我認為你甚至超越了這些目標。所以我的問題是關於2026年的。我們是否應該預期成交速度會與之前相同？或者，發展趨勢會改變，重點轉向提高營運效率，以達到 40% 的目標（而您在宣布策略計畫時的目標是 48%）？

And then a second question still on costs. You mentioned Elo and Alelo growing 20% year on year, even more so in costs. So we can imagine that this is the level that will be maintained going forward. Is there any one-off situation that would cause you to accelerate cost in these two companies?

然後還有第二個問題，仍然與成本有關。您提到 Elo 和 Alelo 每年成長 20%，成本成長幅度更大。因此我們可以預見，未來這一水準將會維持下去。是否有任何特殊情況會導致您加快這兩家公司的成本削減？

So I'll start with your second question. Thank you, Daniel. What I have to say is they do not grow in personnel expenses. So it was on the other way around. I only mentioned that to say we have different dynamics.

那我就先回答你的第二個問題吧。謝謝你，丹尼爾。我想說的是，他們的人員開支並沒有成長。情況正好相反。我提到這一點只是想說明我們之間的相處模式不同。

But they have been growing in terms of volume, revenue, earnings, and they have been investing. So naturally, when you increase customer base, you also increase cost of processing and this type of cost, it's natural to see an increase. The expectation is that it will grow indefinitely at a level of 20%. I don't see that. But they are doing well.

但他們的銷售、收入、利潤都在成長，而且他們一直在投資。因此，當客戶群增加時，處理成本自然也會增加，而這種成本的成長也是理所當然的。預計它將以 20% 的水平無限期增長。我沒看到這一點。但他們做得很好。

They're balanced. They're bringing returns. But when you show the transformation plan, what I mentioned was that we have a plan to reach that level of efficiency that's very important, and we're pursuing that and having a very strong control of expenses with a fine-tuned execution and a lot of discipline, Daniel. But now if I tell you that I have an opportunity to spend BRL1 billion to make BRL2 billion, we will not flinch. We'll not hesitate to move forward and make adjustments because life is dynamic.

它們很平衡。它們帶來了回報。但是，當你展示轉型計劃時，正如我之前提到的，我們有一個計劃來達到那個非常重要的效率水平，我們正在努力實現這個目標，並通過精細的執行和高度的紀律來嚴格控制支出，丹尼爾。但是，如果我現在告訴你，我有一個機會花費 10 億雷亞爾來賺取 20 億雷亞爾，我們不會退縮。我們會毫不猶豫地向前邁進並做出調整，因為生活是不斷變化的。

So the opportunities came up, and that's how we do it. That's not what we expect. We expect to have very well-controlled expenses. But once you consolidate, you may look and see, but shouldn't it be going down or you may see a deviation here and there. But as for the footprint, we talk about 1.6 if we review in the last 12 months, the expectation going forward, if you look at 12 months, would be to a smaller adjustment, Daniel.

所以機會來了，我們就這麼做了。這並非我們所預期的。我們預計費用將得到很好的控制。但一旦你進行盤整，你可能會看到，它不應該在下降嗎？或者你可能會看到一些偏差。但就足跡而言，如果我們回顧過去 12 個月，我們談論的是 1.6，展望未來，如果你展望未來 12 個月，預期調整幅度會更小，丹尼爾。

We're closing this number according to our transformation plan, but it should be below 1,000. That's the expectation for the next year.

根據我們的轉型計劃，我們將逐步減少這個數字，但最終應該會低於 1000。這是對明年的預期。

So just to add to what Marcelo said, once we anticipated the footprint adjustment. Of course, we have more provisions for labor, and that shows up in our OpEx line. When we actually reduce the footprint adjustment, we should see a slowdown of the labor provisions, and that should be clear from now on. I would also like to add to Daniel, we can't have to remember investments that's there for the depreciation, strong investments we've been making naturally in technology for the bank overall as a whole and depreciation on the side. So there's a little bit of that.

所以，我補充一下馬塞洛所說的，一旦我們預料到足跡調整。當然，我們在勞動力方面投入了更多資金，這體現在我們的營運支出中。當我們實際減少佔地面積調整時，我們應該會看到勞動力支出放緩，這一點從現在開始應該很明顯了。我還要補充一下丹尼爾的觀點，我們不能只考慮折舊方面的投資，我們一直在對銀行整體的技術進行強有力的投資，而折舊只是其中的一部分。所以這方面有點影響。

In theory, they are offenders, but actually, they are what boosts the new level of efficiency at the bank. Of course, also competitiveness, right, Cassiano, what we're saying, and we have a more conservative guidance at the end of last year, but we will make it a point to make any investments required in terms of competitiveness. So thank you, Daniel.

理論上，他們是違規者，但實際上，正是他們提高了銀行的效率。當然，還有競爭力，對吧，卡西亞諾，我們說的就是這個，我們在去年年底給出了一個更保守的預期，但我們會確保在競爭力方面進行任何必要的投資。所以，謝謝你，丹尼爾。

Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

Pedro Leduc，Itau BBA。

The first, I think you've already answered actually in this high level of labor provisions that we see this year is like building inventory that may be normalized next year. So I think this is already clear. That was a big offender of the results. But the other question would be in the credit quality. We see a slight increase in over 90 NPL for individuals. So I'd like to get some explanation about this a little bit, maybe the John Deere side, if that's been done or if there's more to come on provisions.

第一個問題，我認為你已經回答了，實際上，我們今年看到的高水準勞動力供應就像是在建立庫存，而這種庫存可能會在明年恢復正常。所以我覺得這一點已經很清楚了。這是影響結果的一大因素。但另一個問題在於信用品質。我們發現個人不良貸款（NPL）數量略有增加，超過90筆。所以我想稍微了解一下這方面的信息，特別是約翰迪爾方面，看看是否已經採取了措施，或者是否還有更多相關規定需要出台。

And also SME NPL, that's quite curious. It's been going down. So congratulations, but I would also like to understand this a little bit more, maybe the relevance of government lines going up. If you can give us an order of magnitude, if it's 10%, 20%, 30% of the SME portfolios, how is the performance of these government lines as they come out of the grace period, and if there's any major concentration that we should look at?

還有中小企業不良貸款率，也很令人好奇。它一直在走下坡路。所以恭喜你，但我還想更深入了解一下，例如政府線路上漲的相關性。如果能給我們一個大致的估算，例如佔中小企業投資組合的 10%、20% 或 30%，那麼這些政府貸款專案在寬限期結束後表現如何？是否存在我們應該關注的重大集中問題？

And at the end, what I'm trying to understand is if this increase in the cost of risk that we saw in this quarter is a trend going forward or not?

最後，我想了解的是，我們在本季看到的這種風險成本增加是否會成為未來的趨勢？

Thank you, Pedro. Good questions. So thank you. It's a pleasure to see you. So first, so individuals, delinquency, it was driven by John Deere. So we don't see any other issues. Our portfolio is very safe and good vintages, and you will see a good quarter on the fourth quarter in this aspect.

謝謝你，佩德羅。問得好。所以，謝謝你。見到你真高興。首先，就個人而言，犯罪是由約翰迪爾公司推動的。所以我們沒有發現其他問題。我們的投資組合非常安全，而且都是優質年份的葡萄酒，從這個角度來看，第四季將會有不錯的業績。

Now for the wholesale bank, that's the case that we had. So going back actually to John Deere that you asked. Look, the capillarity is a lot greater and have smaller or larger funding depending on the size of the deal and the agribusiness side. So it's natural. It's not breaking with any history of what we've seen, and there's recovery that comes over time. That's what we saw there. So that affected a little bit because of the consolidation, but it doesn't keep us up at night, and it doesn't discourage us.

至於批發銀行，這就是我們遇到的情況。所以，回到你問的約翰迪爾公司。你看，毛細作用要大得多，資金規模也會根據交易規模和農業綜合企業方面而有所不同。所以這是很自然的。這並沒有打破我們所看到的任何歷史規律，而且復甦是一個循序漸進的過程。我們在那裡看到的就是那樣。所以，由於合併，這確實產生了一些影響，但這並不會讓我們夜不能寐，也不會讓我們氣餒。

With the John Deere business and our growth in agribusiness, both in the wholesale bank and directly at the retail companies and individuals as well. We are excited with this industry. Of course, we're very cautious. We've been working with collateral always here in this type of line. We do not have any deviation in our portfolio for rural credit. About the wholesale bank now, that provision that I mentioned, there's irregularity there in a specific case, one-off that was a little bit outside of the market rationale because the market is there.

隨著約翰迪爾業務的發展以及我們在農業綜合企業領域的成長，無論是在批發銀行業務，還是直接面向零售公司和個人的業務，我們都取得了進展。我們對這個行業充滿熱情。當然，我們非常謹慎。我們一直以來都從事這類抵押品相關的工作。我們的農村信貸投資組合沒有任何偏差。關於批發銀行，我剛才提到的那項規定，在某個特定案例中存在不規範之處，這是一次性的，有點超出了市場理性，因為市場是存在的。

So we decided to provision for that with a good coverage ratio now. I don't see any other issues here. So I see the cost of risk being very well balanced. If you were to remove that case of the wholesale bank and the deviation that we had from John Deere, it would have been flat, Leduc, it would be flat. So the order of magnitude for you about this case, I can't give you the specific number, but it's around BRL200 million more or less, BRL200 million that we had. So we are very comfortable with our portfolio.

因此，我們決定現在就以較高的覆蓋率來為此做好準備。我沒發現其他問題。所以我認為風險成本得到了很好的平衡。如果去掉批發銀行的案例以及我們與約翰迪爾的偏差，勒杜克的情況就會變得很平坦，真的會變得很平坦。所以關於這個案件的規模，我無法給你一個具體的數字，但大概在 2 億雷亞爾左右，我們當時有 2 億雷亞爾。因此，我們對目前的投資組合非常滿意。

As for SMEs, why did it go down? Obviously, we have numerator denominator here that we are warming up well, but we're growing well with collateral. So we chose modalities in FGI/FGO. Remember that I said we had a share of around 18%. We were number two last year. At the closing, I said that at the beginning of this year. And I said that this year, we would be a leader and with more than 20% market share, and that was what led us to grow with quality because the models take into consideration those intervals so that there may be occasionally a break with those thresholds that are accepted by FGI/FGO.

至於中小企業，它們為何會下滑？顯然，我們這裡有分子分母，我們正在順利升溫，但我們透過抵押品實現了良好的成長。所以我們選擇了FGI/FGO中的模態。記住我說過我們佔股約 18%。我們去年排名第二。在閉幕式上，我說過今年年初發生的事。我說過，今年我們將成為行業領導者，市場份額超過 20%，正是這種理念促使我們不斷提高質量，因為模型考慮到了這些區間，所以偶爾可能會突破 FGI/FGO 接受的閾值。

So we are doing very well, delivering very good quality, creating a huge culture of cost of risk in our company segments and our business of the companies of up to BRL50 million a year in revenue. So the portfolio is under control with no hiccups. Of course, wholesale bank, there may be here and there something different. But it is worth noting or remembering what I said in the presentation, is corporate. That's the middle segment that starts at BRL50 million and goes geographically.

因此，我們做得非常好，提供了非常好的質量，在我們公司的各個業務板塊以及年收入高達 5000 萬雷亞爾的公司中，營造了一種巨大的風險成本文化。因此，投資組合一切正常，沒有出現任何問題。當然，批發銀行的情況可能略有不同。但值得注意的是，或者說記住我在演講中所說的，是企業化的。這是中間價位段，起價為 5000 萬雷亞爾，並按地域劃分。

It's a larger extension up to BRL1 billion. And there, depending on the expected loss or the modality we operate, you have a little bit more provision upfront because of the expected loss. It doesn't mean that delinquency didn't see the movement of Stage 3. No, because it's there on Stage 1, it's good, but you have that expected loss for that type of target you're working on. But always with that risk-adjusted returns, and that goes for everything for SMEs, for the wholesale bank for vehicles and everything for all of them.

此次擴容規模更大，最高可達10億雷亞爾。而且，根據預期損失或我們採用的營運方式，由於預期損失，您需要預先準備更多的準備金。但這並不意味著青少年犯罪沒有經歷第三階段的發展。不，因為它在第一階段就存在了，這很好，但對於你所研究的那種目標類型來說，你會有預期的損失。但始終要考慮風險調整後的收益，這適用於中小企業的一切業務，也適用於批發銀行的車輛業務以及所有這些業務。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

馬裡奧·皮埃里，美國銀行。

Congrats on the results. I have two questions as well. My first question, is mainly a provocation. You're saying that credit cohorts are performing well. NPL is under control. But at the same time, we are expecting a decrease in credit. I would just like to understand why you were so cautious about credit because if you anticipate that things are performing well, why are you making that move?

恭喜取得好成績。我也有兩個問題。我的第一個問題，主要是一種挑釁。你的意思是說，學分班級的表現很好。不良貸款已得到控制。但同時，我們預期信貸將會減少。我只是想了解你為什麼對信貸如此謹慎，因為如果你預期情況會好轉，為什麼還要採取這樣的行動呢？

The second question has to do with your market margin and the increase in the Selic rate. How do you expect NII performing once you expect Selic rates to go down?

第二個問題與你的市場利潤率和Selic利率的上漲有關。您預計在Selic利率下降的情況下，NII的表現會如何？

I would like -- I'll ask Cassiano to start answering your question, and then I will talk about that acceleration.

我想——我會請卡西亞諾先回答你的問題，然後我再談談加速的問題。

Good morning, Okay. Market NII, we did some very important work. I think it's the first time we acknowledge this year an important work done from our treasury and the balance. I think we still maintain that BRL1 billion of soft margin. And I think we refer to that in previous occasions.

早安，好的。在市場淨利息收入方面，我們做了一些非常重要的工作。我認為這是我們今年第一次表彰財政部和財政部門所做的重要工作。我認為我們仍然可以維持10億雷亞爾的軟利潤。我想我們之前也提到過這一點。

So we do acknowledge that work, and we understand that this will be globalized until the end of the year, making up that a total of BRL1 billion. Well, certainly, with a lower rate next year, we should see an improvement. And so right now, we are looking at the budget, and we may bring you some news next year. But certainly, this is a good possibility of an improvement in the market NII for next year. Well, thank you, Mario, for your question and your provocation.

因此，我們認可這項工作，我們了解到這項工作將在全球範圍內持續到年底，最終總額將達到 10 億雷亞爾。當然，如果明年的利率降低，情況應該會有所改善。所以現在，我們正在研究預算，明年可能會為大家帶來一些消息。但可以肯定的是，明年市場淨利息收入很有可能會改善。謝謝你，馬裡奧，你的提問和挑釁都很有啟發性。

We should have a positive outlook in 2026. But starting in the second quarter, I mean, going forward after the second quarter of 2026 in terms of ALM, but as Cassiano said, the other lines are performing well.

我們對2026年應該抱持樂觀態度。但從第二季開始，我的意思是，從 2026 年第二季之後，就 ALM 而言，正如 Cassiano 所說，其他業務線表現良好。

To your point about deceleration, I would say that it has changed. If you look at the Central Bank's relief, I think it was released yesterday and we were looking at it, I talked about the private payroll loan. Private payroll loans, there was a drop year to date. We also experienced a decrease year over year. Now we are -- it's beginning to go out and we -- it's picking up. And we will just follow the market growth. So that doesn't mean that we are decelerating in the country.

關於你提到的減速問題，我認為情況已經改變了。如果你看看央行的紓困措施，我認為是昨天才發布的，我們當時也在關注，我談到了私人薪資貸款。今年迄今為止，私人薪資貸款有所下降。我們也經歷了同比下降的情況。現在——它開始傳播，而且——它正在好轉。我們將順應市場成長趨勢。所以這並不意味著我們國家的經濟成長正在放緩。

And in the other portfolios, public and INSS. INSS portfolio is still dropping, but it's picking up again. And the public portfolio, traction is good. We are growing. We will gain market share -- the other one, we are doing well with SMEs. We are not decelerating, but of course, that you have to deliver the right line to the right clients.

其他投資組合包括公共和國際社會保障局 (INSS)。INSS投資組合仍在下降，但正在回升。公共投資組合的進展良好。我們正在發展壯大。我們將獲得市場份額——另一方面，我們在中小企業領域做得很好。我們並沒有放慢腳步，但當然，你必須向合適的客戶提供合適的產品線。

The same thing the market dynamics, I mean, I'm referring to Central Bank data. I'm not releasing any privileged information. But if you look at orders, in a year, we would grow slightly below market growth. But in the quarter, we surpassed the market growth. So that means that we have a good risk appetite. I may even be, let's say I am bringing credit with a little bit more risk.

市場動態也是如此，我的意思是，我指的是央行數據。我不會洩漏任何機密資訊。但從訂單量來看，一年內我們的成長速度將略低於市場成長速度。但本季度，我們的成長速度超過了市場平均。所以這意味著我們具有良好的風險承受能力。我甚至可以說，我帶來了風險稍高的信用額度。

But the important thing is NII net of provision. So you have risk-adjusted return that is adequate perfect. Therefore, I can tell you that we will be fighting for this market, and we will continue to grow. I am not pessimistic. We are cautious because we don't want to venture into like lines that have higher risk, no we don't want to do.

但重要的是扣除準備金後的淨利息收入。所以你獲得了足夠好的風險調整後收益。因此，我可以告訴你們，我們將為爭奪這個市場而戰，並且我們將繼續成長。我並不悲觀。我們很謹慎，因為我們不想涉足風險較高的領域，我們絕對不想這樣做。

So I want good clients, with good rating, control expected losses in segments that eventually may bring this slightly lower margin, but at the end, it gives us sustainable assets. That's why we have a sound portfolio. I mean the restructured portfolio is good. So your provocation -- to your provocation, my answer is yes.

所以我想要優質客戶，良好的信譽，控制那些最終可能導致利潤率略低的細分市場的預期損失，但最終，這將為我們帶來可持續的資產。這就是我們擁有穩健投資組合的原因。我的意思是，重組後的投資組合是不錯的。所以，對於你的挑釁──對於你的挑釁，我的回答是肯定的。

We are cautious, but we are stepping on the accelerator, whatever we see opportunities for penetration. I mean we grew 25%. I mean, we grew more than the financial system. So our appetite remains sound. If we did not have, I mean, any drop in the large corporate portfolio, we would have grown more than 10% year on year.

我們保持謹慎，但只要看到滲透機會，我們就會加速前進。我的意思是，我們成長了25%。我的意思是，我們的發展速度超過了金融體系。所以我們的食慾依然很好。如果我們的大型企業投資組合沒有出現任何下滑，我們的年增長率將超過 10%。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

Thiago Batista，瑞銀集團。

Hello. I have two questions. My first question, going back to the strategic plan. I mean, you released that in 2024, that has been almost 1.5 years ago. And back then, you talked about three or four KPIs. One was something about 2 and 2.5 efficiency over 200 bps.

你好。我有兩個問題。我的第一個問題，是關於策略規劃的。我的意思是，你們在 2024 年發布了那款遊戲，到現在已經快 1.5 年了。那時候，你們只談了三、四個關鍵績效指標。其中之一是 2 到 2.5 倍效率，超過 200 個基點。

And then you talked about cost of equity. So some time has passed. But can you tell me that considering your initial diagnostics, how do you see the market? More challenging, less challenging cost of capital, cost of equity, are you going to deliver numbers very close to what was anticipated? I mean cost of capital and ROE, I think you addressed that efficiency maybe you didn't get there yet.

然後你們談到了權益成本。時間已經過了一段時間。但根據您初步的診斷，您能否告訴我您如何看待市場？更具挑戰性還是更輕鬆的資本成本、股權成本，你們能否實現與預期非常接近的數字？我的意思是資本成本和淨資產收益率，我認為你已經談到了效率問題，也許你還沒有完全達到那個水平。

So what is more challenging and what is more comfortable related to your strategic plan. When you talked about real estate, looking at Bradesco today, the bank has about BRL112 billion in mortgage, BRL120 billion of savings and LCI. So do you see any possibility of issuing more LCI after the transition? So how do you see this change in funding of real estate mortgage?

那麼，就你的策略計畫而言，哪些更具挑戰性，哪些比較輕鬆呢？說到房地產，看看今天的布拉德斯科銀行，該銀行擁有約 1120 億雷亞爾的抵押貸款、1200 億雷亞爾的儲蓄和 LCI。那麼，您認為過渡之後是否有可能發布更多LCI？那麼，您如何看待房地產抵押貸款融資方式的這種變化？

I will start with your second question about mortgage loan. I mean our portfolio has over BRL140 billion once you also add the corporate side. But the change was positive. It's an opportunity because it makes sense. It makes sense to reduce the savings, the reserve requirement of the savings account.

我先回答你關於房貸的第二個問題。我的意思是，如果把企業部分也算進去，我們的投資組合超過1,400億雷亞爾。但這種變化是正面的。這是一個機會，因為它合情合理。降低儲蓄額，也就是降低儲蓄帳戶的準備金要求，是明智之舉。

We had preserved margin, as I mentioned during my presentation. That's why we stepped on the brakes a little bit. But on the other hand, we have the demand capacity to resume growth, and we will resume growth. This will be more noticeable by the end of the year because we have enough capacity to grow more.

正如我在報告中提到的，我們預留了空間。所以我們稍微踩了踩煞車。但另一方面，我們有能力恢復成長，而且我們一定會恢復成長。到年底，這一點會更加明顯，因為我們有足夠的產能來進一步成長。

I also think this is positive for the system because there are four incumbent banks that have higher protagonist, but when we look at the regulation, it comes with some complexities. I know that you're familiar with it. But starting in 2027, what we have to look at in terms of the release of the reserve requirement in this new regulation is that there might be a decoupling in the long run because you remove that 15% of free resource.

我認為這對整個系統來說也是好事，因為有四家現有銀行擁有更高的主導地位，但當我們審視監管問題時，就會發現其中存在一些複雜性。我知道你很熟悉它。但從 2027 年開始，就這項新規中釋放儲備要求而言，我們必須關注的是，從長遠來看，可能會出現脫鉤現象，因為你取消了 15% 的自由資源。

So in that vote, they say that every year, this will be reviewed. So certainly, there might be some degree of flexibility that will allow us to make adjustments. Otherwise, there will be no appetite or maybe the incentives will be -- will go in the opposite direction. We have an appetite to do it. And this makes more loyal customers because they are more profitable, of course, we have a lot to do. The higher interest rates also challenges mortgage loans. So that's the first thing.

所以在那次投票中，他們表示每年都會對此進行審查。所以，當然，我們或許可以有一定的彈性，允許我們做出調整。否則，就不會有購買意願，或者激勵措施可能會朝著相反的方向發展。我們很樂意這樣做。當然，這能帶來更多忠誠的客戶，因為他們能帶來更多利潤，我們還有很多工作要做。較高的利率也為抵押貸款帶來了挑戰。這是第一點。

Second thing, I think that here in terms of challenges -- and then I want Cassiano and Andre to add to my comments. First of all, you said, are we -- we are getting there, right, in terms of cost of capital. That was a challenge. And when we presented the plan on February 8, 2024, we were talking about 13% to 13.5% cost of capital. I think if I'm not mistaken, that was the number, meaning we would have gone beyond that. That was a challenge. But it's -- we are getting very close to it, so it will come. I'm not promising anything, but it is right ahead of us. This is the first thing.

第二點，我認為這裡有一些挑戰——然後我想請 Cassiano 和 Andre 來補充我的看法。首先，您說，就資本成本而言，我們正在取得進展，對吧？那真是個挑戰。當我們在 2024 年 2 月 8 日提出該計劃時，我們談到的是 13% 到 13.5% 的資本成本。如果我沒記錯的話，那就是那個數字，也就是說我們原本會超過那個數字。那真是個挑戰。但是——我們離它越來越近了，所以它一定會到來。我不能保證什麼，但它就在我們眼前。這是第一件事。

The second thing, growing customer base. We cleaned up inactive savings account holders because it makes more sense to include nonactive customers, and we don't want to bring nonperforming clients. Therefore, we are working and paying attention to that. We are looking at the profile of clients, clients that are more digital and so on.

第二點，就是擴大客戶群。我們清理了不活躍的儲蓄帳戶持有人，因為將不活躍的客戶納入其中更有意義，而且我們不想引入表現不佳的客戶。因此，我們正在努力並關注此事。我們正在研究客戶畫像，特別是那些更傾向於數位化的客戶等等。

So there are challenges. And but this applies to the entire country when it comes to the massive clients, which are struggling to make ends meet. But our growth level at Bradesco principal, I didn't even refer to NPS to you. But probably in our next earnings release presentation, we will talk about the growth of the individuals portfolio and bring some more information.

所以，挑戰依然存在。但對於那些難以維持生計的大型客戶而言，這種情況適用於整個國家。但是，就布拉德斯科銀行的校長而言，我們的增長水平，我什至都沒跟你提過 NPS。但或許在下次財報發布會上，我們會談到個人投資組合的成長情況，並提供更多資訊。

We are seeing a lot of good things happening with our principal segment, Prime, SMEs, wholesale banking, I think obviously, there is also structural growth because the GDP is not growing and unemployment is low. So this interest rate level squeezes small and midsized companies, and that's why we try to be -- to operate on secured lines. Maybe going forward, we will see more opportunities to deliver some KPIs that we will certainly bring it to you when the right time comes. Sorry Thiago, I think I called you Eugene.

我們看到主要業務部門（包括優質客戶、中小企業、批發銀行業務）都出現了許多好的變化，我認為很明顯，這其中也存在結構性增長，因為GDP沒有成長，失業率也很低。因此，目前的利率水準擠壓了中小企業，這就是為什麼我們要努力做到——在有擔保的信貸額度下運作。或許未來我們會看到更多實現某些關鍵績效指標的機會，屆時我們一定會及時通知您。對不起，蒂亞戈，我想我把你叫成尤金了。

Thiago, I would add two things. One thing that probably looked like ancillary, but we have the engagement of our team. I am Bradesco. This is part of our culture. Marcelo showed that 84% of our people answered the survey. And this is important because they are very much engaged in the bank's transformation. This at first seem challenging, but I think this was one of our positive surprises.

蒂亞戈，我還要補充兩點。有一件事看起來可能無關緊要，但我們團隊的參與至關重要。我是布拉德斯科。這是我們文化的一部分。馬塞洛的數據顯示，我們公司有 84% 的員工完成了問卷。這一點很重要，因為他們積極參與了銀行的轉型。這起初看起來很有挑戰性，但我認為這是我們獲得的意外驚喜之一。

Obviously, the macro environment was based on that strategic plan. That was a totally different plan. We didn't have high interest rates. The GDP was growing, the cost of capital was good. But despite all of that, we continue to invest. And an important part of that, that we have to mention in addition to people is technology. We invested in technology, reskilling, the different tribes, the concept of restructuring our infrastructure, the upskilling of the team as a whole and the intensive use of GenAI that led to greater productivity together with other like footprint in this new growth levels.

顯然，宏觀環境是以該戰略計劃為基礎的。那完全是另一個計劃。我們當時的利率並不高。國內生產毛額在成長，資金成本也較低。儘管如此，我們仍將繼續投資。除了人之外，我們還必須提到科技這項重要因素。我們投資於技術、技能再培訓、不同的團隊、基礎設施重組的概念、整個團隊的技能提升以及 GenAI 的密集使用，從而提高了生產力，並在新的成長階段取得了其他類似的成就。

Of course, this also involves higher efficiency, 800 bps. We would get closer to 50, 52. So the plan -- it's a four-year plan. We are heading towards the year two. So there are lots of challenges, but we are on the right track. And in our next earnings release, we will talk more about the share. We are growing in the areas where we trust we can increase penetration. SME is a clear example. And you might recall that I said that we wouldn't let go of our leadership position, and we are doing so.

當然，這也意味著更高的效率，800 個基點。我們會更接近 50、52。所以，這個計劃——這是一個為期四年的計劃。我們即將邁入第二年。所以雖然面臨很多挑戰，但我們走在正確的道路上。在下一份財報中，我們將更詳細地討論股票相關情況。我們正在那些我們認為可以提高市場滲透率的地區進行擴張。中小企業就是一個明顯的例子。你可能還記得我說過我們不會放棄我們的領導地位，而我們現在正在這樣做。

And we are delivering better results on and on. But we have a challenge to increase efficiency, as Cassiano said. And capital requirement is something that is a constant here because year-end of 2026, there will be new requirements related to operating risk and other elements. I think the number is 30 additional bps for required capital. So capital need is something that is very peculiar to our industry.

我們一直在不斷取得更好的成績。但正如卡西亞諾所說，我們面臨的挑戰是如何提高效率。而且資本需求在這裡是恆定的，因為到 2026 年底，將會出現與營運風險和其他因素相關的新要求。我認為所需資本是額外增加 30 個基點。因此，資金需求是我們這個產業非常獨特的問題。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

Thank you Andre. Thank you, Andre. Thiago always asks good questions.

謝謝你，安德烈。謝謝你，安德烈。蒂亞戈總是能提出很好的問題。

We will call you Thiago.

我們將稱你為蒂亞戈。

No, you call me Thiago, UBS.

不，你叫我蒂亞戈，瑞銀。

You should have a sign. We saw a sign that you were on the line, and then I got confused I apologize. Thiago again.

你應該立個牌子。我們看到有標誌表明您在排隊，然後我就搞混了，很抱歉。又是蒂亞戈。

I would like to talk about client NII. It's one of the good surprises of the year, improvement in funding or something in spread, we've been seeing your line very well with this 9% that you presented now.

我想談談客戶NII。這是今年的一大驚喜，可能是資金方面的改善，也可能是利差方面的原因，我們一直很關注您提出的9%的方案。

So I'd like to take your view of NIM. So do you believe this 9% NIM is going to go up? Or is it more going to remain stable? If it's going to improve, what do you think will make your NIM improve? That's the second question, inspired by Thiago.

所以我想聽聽您對NIM的看法。所以你認為這9%的淨利差還會上升嗎？或者它會保持穩定？如果想要改善，你認為什麼因素會改善你的淨增量矩陣（NIM）？這是第二個問題，靈感來自蒂亞戈。

I know it's hard to talk about medium- to long-term ROE, but I think that the market believes that Bradesco will start generating returns above cost of equity. And we see there's some expectation that this is going to improve, as Cassiano said, this is a reality in the quarter, we understand, as you said, that there have been corporate cases that played kind of against it, but ROE only improved 10 bps quarter-on-quarter, and that's kind of timid.

我知道談論中長期淨資產收益率 (ROE) 很困難，但我認為市場相信 Bradesco 將開始產生高於權益成本的回報。我們看到有人預期這種情況會有所改善，正如卡西亞諾所說，這是本季的現實情況。我們理解，正如你所說，有一些公司案例對此產生了不利影響，但淨資產收益率僅環比提高了 10 個基點，這有點令人擔憂。

But when we look at the detail, the insurance companies who brought most of the improvement. The bank's ROE goes down quarter-on-quarter.

但當我們仔細觀察細節時，就會發現保險公司才是帶來大部分改善的因素。該銀行的淨資產收益率環比下降。

So again, going back to Thiago's question, what could we expect in terms of the agility of this ROE improvement? It's clear that it will continue to grow, but I'd like to understand from you, if you can, if you're comfortable bringing more medium or very long-term numbers to understand how you see the improvement in profitability for the coming quarters.

所以，回到 Thiago 的問題，我們可以期待 ROE 提升的彈性如何？很明顯，它將繼續增長，但我想請教您，如果您方便的話，能否提供一些中期或長期數據，以便了解您如何看待未來幾個季度的盈利能力改善情況。

Andre, you can begin and I'll conclude.

安德烈，你先開始，我來結束。

So I'll start with the ROE question. Actually, what we see this year is that the revenues have been surprising every quarter with the commercial traction, proximity to customers.

那我就先從ROE（淨值收益率）的問題開始。事實上，我們今年看到的是，由於商業上的成功和與客戶的緊密聯繫，每個季度的收入都令人驚訝。

And that has been allowing us not only to maintain the decision of the beginning of the year of preserving investments, but also to accelerate the footprint adjustment and strengthen the balance sheet.

這不僅使我們能夠堅持年初做出的保留投資的決定，而且還能加快調整業務佈局，增強資產負債表。

We saw in the third quarter, the increase not only on LLP, but also the labor provisions with a clear effort to strengthen the balance sheet on one-off measures.

我們在第三季看到，不僅長期照護保險 (LLP) 增加，而且勞動準備金也增加，這明顯是為了透過一次性措施加強資產負債表。

And we were able to do that because the revenues were coming in very strongly. So here, we delivered the step-by-step the improvement in profitability in the quarter, but we decided to advance and we are having a very accelerated transformation plan.

我們之所以能夠做到這一點，是因為營收成長非常強勁。因此，我們在本季度逐步實現了盈利能力的提升，但我們決定加快步伐，並正在實施一項非常加速的轉型計劃。

So I think that gives us more confident on the medium and long term that we'll be able to go further in this process. So the idea here for ROE improvement, we've been saying today, it basically depends on revenue basically. And from now on, it's going to be the efficiency ratio that's going to be our focus, a combination of revenue moving now and expenses still very much under control that leads the efficiency ratio to drop 10 percentage points in the next 3 years, '26, '27 and '28.

所以我認為這讓我們對中長期更有信心，相信我們能夠在這個過程中走得更遠。所以，我們今天一直在說的，提高淨資產收益率的關鍵在於收入。從現在開始，我們將重點放在效率比率，透過收入成長和支出控制得當，使效率比率在未來 3 年（2026 年、2027 年和 2028 年）下降 10 個百分點。

So I think that's the main ROE driver that's still not priced, but it's one of the very important aspects for us to highlight in this discussion. Now on NIM, our NIM got to 9% now in September. We were promising this 9% for December. So we were able to deliver slightly early. And we are still expecting 9% in December, some stability in the fourth quarter.

所以我認為這是影響 ROE 的主要因素，但目前尚未反映在價格中，不過這是我們在本次討論中需要重點強調的重要方面之一。現在，我們的淨利差在9月達到了9%。我們之前承諾12月能達到9%。因此我們得以提前一點交付。我們仍預期 12 月的成長率為 9%，第四季將保持穩定。

That's the base scenario.

這是基本情景。

And we have some variables that help us going forward in this NIM. For example, the cost of funding, the funding margin are still improving a little bit, not only due to the -- not so much due to the quick wins we saw in '25, but to cash management measures of funding and things that start to mature with time.

我們有一些變數可以幫助我們推進 NIM 的進展。例如，融資成本和融資利潤率仍在略有改善，這不僅是因為我們在 2025 年看到的快速勝利，更是因為現金管理融資措施以及隨著時間推移而開始成熟的一些事情。

Marcelo pointed at Global Solutions. We have other measures here in cash that help -- other measures that help NIM. For example, the restructured portfolio going down. Once we reduce the restructured portfolio, in particular, the problem assets in our loan portfolio, we increased the share that yield interest, and that also improves our NIM.

馬塞洛指著全球解決方案公司。我們還有其他現金方面的措施可以提供幫助──其他有助於淨利差的措施。例如，重組後的投資組合出現下滑。一旦我們減少了重組後的投資組合，特別是貸款組合中的問題資產，我們就增加了產生利息的份額，這也提高了我們的淨利差。

And as Marcelo said, whenever we have the opportunity with a good RER, we will go after it. We will accelerate, and that ends up helping us in our profitability, and then it would be net NIM.

正如馬塞洛所說，只要有機會，我們就會把握機會，爭取獲得好的RER。我們將加速發展，這最終將有助於提高我們的獲利能力，從而實現淨利差。

Yuri, I'll be bold here. I think Andre gave you a good overview about this spread. So I'll dare in telling you is that NII is tractioned. NIM for this quarter, I have no expectation of variations.

尤里，我大膽一點。我認為安德烈已經很好地概述了這種情況。所以我鬥膽告訴你們的是，NII 已經獲得了牽引力。本季淨息差預計不會出現波動。

Well, now next year, depending on our mix, we are still discussing in the light of the plan and the budget and how tractioned we are, we may even surprise you. I would not rule it out. I'm not making any promises, but I would not rule it out.

嗯，明年，根據我們的產品組合，我們還在根據計劃、預算以及我們的進展進行討論，我們甚至可能會給你帶來驚喜。我不會排除這種可能性。我不會做出任何承諾，但我也不會排除這種可能性。

And when you talk about the ROE in the medium to the long term, of course, here, we're seeking to deliver ROE and the cost of equity and then take another step.

當然，當我們談到中長期的 ROE 時，我們在這裡的目標是實現 ROE 和權益成本，然後再邁出下一步。

But when we had the diagnosis, what did we see? Brazil, depending on its positioning, we are an organization just like others, other conglomerates here with about 80,000 employees, capillarity with a specific model of a universal bank, there are others with a different business model.

但當我們確診後，我們看到了什麼？在巴西，根據其市場定位，我們和其他企業集團一樣，擁有約 80,000 名員工，採用特定的全能銀行模式，而其他企業則採用不同的商業模式。

So here in Brazil, we have a market that offers long-term ROE between 15% to 20%, depending on your position. And we see that in the long-term horizon, depending on the position of each organization.

因此，在巴西，我們擁有一個能夠提供長期淨資產收益率 (ROE) 15% 至 20% 的市場，具體取決於您的投資方向。從長遠來看，這取決於每個組織所處的位置。

It's not only, Bradesco, but the market. And I think that we have such a large market that there's plenty of room for you to have a set of organizations as we always had in Brazil, dividing a share in different customer and business segments. Thank you Yuri for your questions.

不僅是布拉德斯科銀行，而是整個市場。我認為我們擁有如此龐大的市場，完全有足夠的空間讓你們像在巴西一樣，建立一系列組織，在不同的客戶和業務領域劃分份額。謝謝尤里提出的問題。

Henrique Navarro, Santander.

桑坦德的恩里克·納瓦羅。

Congratulation on the earnings. Two questions. The first about the corporate specific cases. We know that due to the secrecy and the protection, we cannot comment. But if you can give us some color within whatever is possible, this BRL354 million, is it one, two, three specific cases?

恭喜你獲得收益。兩個問題。首先是關於企業具體案例。我們知道，由於保密和保護的需要，我們不能發表評論。但是，如果您能盡可能提供一些細節，這 3.54 億雷亞爾，是指一個、兩個還是三個具體案例？

The largest one we imagine. How much does it represent of this whole? And was it 100% provisioned? The idea is to understand what would have been a clean balance sheet, so to speak, even though losing is part of the credit business, but what would have been a clean balance sheet?

我們想像中最大的一個。它在整個整體中佔多大比例？是否已100%預付？我們的想法是了解，即便虧損是信貸業務的一部分，但究竟什麼是「乾淨的資產負債表」呢？

And also to understand if there's anything remaining in terms of provisioning for those specific corporate cases for the fourth quarter? That's my first question.

此外，還需要了解第四季針對這些特定企業案例是否還有剩餘的撥備？這是我的第一個問題。

The second, on the guidance, you're running above the top of the guidance in many items, very good. But why not review it now in the third quarter? Because that would give us some light to have a better idea of the number for '25 and imagine what we'll see in '26, especially in insurance that you're running well above the top of the guidance.

第二點，關於指導原則，你在很多方面都達到了指導原則的最高水平，非常好。但為什麼不在第三季重新檢視呢？因為那樣一來，我們就能更了解 2025 年的數字，並想像 2026 年的情況，尤其是在保險業，你們的營運水準遠高於指導上限。

Thank you, Navarro. It's a pleasure to see you. About that specific case that we have in corporate, we provisioned significantly. We have no expectation of additional provisioning for this case going forward for the next quarter, that's the answer I have to you.

謝謝你，納瓦羅。見到你真高興。針對公司裡遇到的那個具體案例，我們已經做了許多準備。我們預計下個季度不會為此案件追加撥備，這就是我能給你的答案。

And that case is what gets a bigger deviation in our situation. There are smaller cases, specific cases as well as the growth of the corporate portfolio that, as I said, the middle market in here.

而這種情況在我們這裡出現的偏差就比較大。還有一些較小的案例、特殊案例，以及企業投資組合的成長，正如我所說，這裡是中端市場。

So we do not expect to have any other provisions for that. And in terms of the guidance review, since we're seeing that we will fall within the guidance, the guidance is an interval.

因此，我們預計不會為此制定任何其他規定。至於指導意見審查，由於我們看到我們將符合指導意見，而指導意見是一個區間。

We see ourselves in the upper band of the guidance, but pretty much for all of those items. I mentioned loan portfolio between 7% and 8%, maybe slightly closer to 7%, but all of the others within the upper band of the upper range of the guidance. That's why we decided not to review it because we will soon start to talk about the guidance for 2026. I don't know if you want to add.

我們認為我們處於指導方針的較高水平，但幾乎在所有方面都是如此。我提到貸款組合佔比在 7% 到 8% 之間，可能略接近 7%，但其他所有比例都在指導範圍的上限之內。這就是為什麼我們決定不再對其進行審查，因為我們很快就會開始討論 2026 年的指導方針。我不知道你是否想添加。

No, that's exactly it. That's perfect.

沒錯，就是這樣。那很完美。

Gustavo Schroden, Citi.

古斯塔沃·施羅登，花旗集團。

Congratulations for the results since the presentation of the strategic plan. I have two questions.

祝賀自戰略計劃提出以來的成果。我有兩個問題。

And the first question is related to capital and tax credit. Maybe the question should be addressed to Cassiano. I mean there was an evolution of 11.4%. There is also the issue of profits.

第一個問題與資本和稅收抵免有關。或許應該問問卡西亞諾這個問題。我的意思是，成長率達到了 11.4%。還有利潤問題。

But looking at the explanatory notes, I think that it seemed to me that there were some changes in the tax credits. I would just like to understand if part of this capital improvement comes from the reversal of deferred or DTA of deferred tax credit.

但看了說明文字後，我覺得稅收抵免政策似乎有些改變。我想了解一下，這筆資本改善資金是否部分來自於遞延所得稅抵免或遞延所得稅資產抵免的衝回。

And what is the bank's policy in terms of these assets, whether you have a plan to accelerate this going forward?

那麼，貴行對這些資產的政策是什麼？是否有計劃加快推進這方面的投資？

The second question for Marcelo. It's been a while since we talked about Cielo -- and Marcelo talked about expenses of Elopar and Cielo. I remember that when you were presenting the strategic plan, Cielo and especially SMEs also, that was a very important part of the plan.

第二個問題問馬塞洛。我們已經有一段時間沒談論Cielo了——Marcelo談到了Elopar和Cielo的費用。我記得當時您在介紹戰略計劃時，Cielo 以及特別是中小企業，都是該計劃中非常重要的一部分。

So could you give us an update about Cielo's strategic plan, particularly after the capital reorganization, I mean, restructuring. So can you tell us something about Cielo's strategic position?

那麼，您能否向我們介紹一下 Cielo 的戰略計劃的最新進展，尤其是在資本重組之後，我的意思是，結構調整之後。那麼，您能跟我們談談Cielo的策略定位嗎？

Nice to see you. Well, you're very familiar with our policy and as part of our assumption to make better allocation of capital in our company. So this is a relevant aspect related to this change in the additional capital, also including tax losses that you saw in that explanatory note.

很高興見到你。您應該很熟悉我們的政策，這是我們公司為了更好地配置資本而做出的假設的一部分。所以，這是與新增資本變化相關的重要方面，其中也包括您在說明中看到的稅收損失。

Even though our tax credit increased, there was an improvement in some lines. We reduced the tax losses and the tax credit from LLP had a traditional increase. So this mix of things is what led to this positive effect in the capital numbers as a whole.

儘管我們的稅收抵免額增加了，但某些項目還是有所改善。我們減少了稅務虧損，有限責任合夥企業（LLP）的稅收抵免額也按慣例增加了。正是這些因素的綜合作用，導致了整體資本數據的正面影響。

Certainly, we are working towards further reductions. We are very -- we know that there should be differences in the tax credit because of everything we are doing.

當然，我們正在努力進一步降低成本。我們非常清楚，由於我們所做的一切，稅收抵免政策應該有所不同。

And I think this is part of the virtuous cycle going forward. In this particular case of this quarter, it has to do with this change between tax credit from LLP, DTAs, and this should have a lower effect once you draw an average.

我認為這是未來良性循環的一部分。就本季而言，這與 LLP 稅收抵免和遞延所得稅資產之間的變化有關，而一旦計算平均值，這種變化的影響應該會降低。

That's why we had a specific difference.

這就是我們之間存在具體分歧的原因。

Adding to the answer, I would like to say that our common equity that was 18.4% come December, I think it should be around the same level. So by the end of next year, should be closer to 11%, which is where we would like to keep this optimization process at.

補充一下，我想說的是，截至 12 月，我們的普通股權益為 18.4%，我認為它應該保持在相同的水平左右。因此，到明年年底，應該會接近 11%，這也是我們希望將優化過程保持在的水平。

So Gustavo, speaking about Cielo, well, we will refer to the balance next quarter, as I said before, about individuals and share.

所以 Gustavo，說到 Cielo，嗯，正如我之前所說，我們將在下個季度討論個人和股份的餘額。

But there is a whole set of initiatives in Cielo to gain competitiveness. And we've been working with specific teams in both banks and together with Banco do Brasil, both on the wholesale side and SMEs, meaning that we have teams working together with the Cielo teams.

但Cielo推出了一系列提升競爭力的措施。我們一直在與兩家銀行的特定團隊以及巴西銀行合作，包括批發業務和中小企業業務，這意味著我們有一個團隊與 Cielo 團隊一起工作。

There are several initiatives that contemplates customer experience in the bank's channel. There was a significant improvement in logistics when it comes to delivering equipment and also adding new solutions to companies.

銀行通路中存在多項旨在提升顧客體驗的措施。在設備交付和為企業提供新解決方案方面，物流方面有了顯著改善。

We've also noticed the expansion of newcomers, which is much more fluid now. And this has to do with our commercial teams and Cielo's teams. I will give you more information about it later on in other events, there is a time line because this week, I was just reading or revisiting our time line because there is a plan that we monitor very frequently.

我們也注意到新成員的增加，現在這種增加更加頻繁、更加靈活。這與我們的商務團隊和Cielo的團隊都有關係。稍後我會在其他活動中提供更多相關信息，這其中是有時間表的，因為這週我一直在閱讀或重新審視我們的時間表，因為我們有一個計劃，我們會非常頻繁地進行監控。

We look at our growth rates. And we will also tell you about other initiatives of the bank next time we meet.

我們關注增長率。下次見面時，我們也會向您介紹銀行的其他措施。

But we continue to work on our transformation plan. And now we are very much connected more so than in other occasions. We are working together. And not only that, we are delivering renewed experience to customers with a higher competitive experience, everything integrated in the SME app.

但我們會繼續推動轉型計劃。現在我們之間的連結比以往任何時候都更加緊密。我們正在共同努力。不僅如此，我們還透過更具競爭力的體驗，為客戶提供全新的體驗，所有這些都整合在中小企業應用程式中。

Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

Bernardo Guttmann，XP。

Congrats on the bank's results. My question is about private payroll loan and your appetite. You said that you were very conservative on the onset of private NII, but now you're resuming growth and delinquency or NPL is way below the market.

恭喜銀行取得佳績。我的問題是關於私人工資貸款以及您的需求。您曾表示在私人淨利息收入方面非常保守，但現在您已恢復成長，不良貸款率遠低於市場水準。

So what allowed you to do that? Can we say that the bank already has a scalable risk model for this new type of payroll loan, now private?

是什麼讓你能夠做到這一點？我們能否說，該銀行已經針對這種新型的、目前私有化的工資貸款建立了一個可擴展的風險模型？

The answer is yes. Our process is working like clockwork. So we have good risk appetite, mainly due to the approval. So you go to a more open market and everything has to be in place because you approve credit for companies and for employees at that company.

答案是肯定的。我們的流程運作得非常精準。因此，我們具有良好的風險承受能力，這主要是因為我們獲得了批准。所以，當你進入一個更開放的市場時，一切都必須準備就緒，因為你要審批公司及其員工的信貸。

So you should be certain that everything will be approved. And the appetite has increased. We changed policies. We are now increasing the pace.

所以你應該確信所有事項都會獲得批准。食慾也增加了。我們改變了政策。我們現在正在加快步伐。

As I said before, we were declining year-to-date and year-on-year. Now the numbers are increasing. And certainly, this quarter, there will be an acceleration, particularly in terms of private payroll loans.

正如我之前所說，我們的業績年比和累積業績都在下降。現在數字還在增加。當然，本季將會加速成長，尤其是在私人薪資貸款方面。

And this is a great opportunity for those who are so important in this market, but we will accelerate both INSS and public portfolios. So in terms of payroll loan, we will show good growth going forward. And it is yet to be seen what will -- what impact this will have in the budget.

這對那些在這個市場中舉足輕重的人來說是一個絕佳的機會，但我們將加快INSS和公共投資組合的建設。因此，就薪資貸款而言，我們未來將呈現良好的成長動能。而這將對預算產生何種影響，還有待觀察。

But everything we're doing, we are doing with modeling and intelligence. And this is crucial if we want to succeed in this business, but we were not very certain in terms of the processes in the past. There are some deliveries like data privy. There are some deliveries that were postponed and some others will only be delivered in 2026. But that's not a problem because this doesn't change our appetite.

但我們所做的一切，都是透過建模和智能來實現的。如果我們想在這個行業取得成功，這一點至關重要，但過去我們對相關流程並不太確定。有些交付方式類似於資料隱私。有些貨物的交付被推遲，還有一些貨物要到 2026 年才能交付。但這不成問題，因為這不會改變我們的食慾。

On the contrary, things will be better going forward. But we see major growth opportunities we will grow, and we will gain share. I'm talking about everything, not only I'm talking about INSS, public and private portfolios.

相反，未來情況會越來越好。但我們看到了巨大的成長機會，我們將發展壯大，並贏得市場份額。我指的是所有方面，不僅僅是INSS、公共和私人投資組合。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

Renato Meloni，自治。

I have two questions. First, about the individuals mass retail, you've been growing a lot in the high income as a right strategy for this year. But I'd like to understand whether growing again and gaining relevance in the mass retail will be a relevant part of the strategy looking for the coming years.

我有兩個問題。首先，關於個人大眾零售，今年高收入者的成長是一個正確的策略。但我很想知道，在未來幾年裡，重新發展壯大並在大眾零售領域獲得認可是否會成為公司策略的重要組成部分。

And what indicators are you expecting to be comfortable again to take risk and grow on that segment?

您預計哪些指標能讓您再次安心地承擔風險並在該領域實現成長？

And the second question, just a follow-up about what you said about SMEs. I'd like to understand if you see any limit being reached in the lines that were authorized with government and whether you think you could continue to grow at the same pace that you presented in the last quarters.

第二個問題，是您剛才談到的中小企業問題的後續問題。我想了解您是否認為政府批准的產能已經達到極限，以及您是否認為您還能以上個季度所展現的增速繼續增長。

So about the individuals mass retail, we have more than 14 million customers that are mostly or almost fully digital. And what are the challenges here? It is to have a very well adjusted models because the cost of risk here is a lot higher, Renato. We know that. And we are investing, testing and making things happen.

所以就個人大眾零售而言，我們有超過 1,400 萬名客戶，他們大多或幾乎完全是數位化客戶。那麼，這裡存在哪些挑戰呢？雷納托，因為這裡的風險成本要高得多，所以需要非常完善的模型。我們知道這一點。我們正在進行投資、測試，並努力將想法付諸實行。

But we've been working with this level of engagement in the customers' life cycle, doing that NBO, the next best offer in the different segments. That goes to high income. It's valid for both high income and this more digital segment as well. And we have been testing the channels with different alternatives and different value propositions within our physical world as well because you have clusters that would be a lot more connected to the segment due to the level of profitability they have to offer, but they still have the need for physical in-person service.

但我們一直在努力提升客戶生命週期中的參與度，在不同的細分市場中提供次優方案 (NBO)。那屬於高收入人群。這同樣適用於高收入者和更偏向數位化的群體。我們一直在實體世界中測試不同的管道和不同的價值主張，因為有些集群由於其能夠提供的盈利水平而與細分市場聯繫更加緊密，但他們仍然需要實體面對面的服務。

And we've been testing all of that with our Bradesco Expresso. So when you talk about a country with the size of Brazil, it's not trivial to think that everyone will adhere to fully digital.

我們一直在用布拉德斯科濃縮咖啡測試所有這些產品。所以，對於像巴西這樣幅員遼闊的國家來說，指望每個人都完全接受數位化是不切實際的。

We have a lot of social levels and different profiles, different personas in this group of people. And we've been working with all of them to be able to have the best cost to serve and the ability to continue growing with this public. But now with the proper adequate safety because here, it's smaller income levels and there's a certain degree of frailty that's natural, so to be able to provide certain lines of credit.

我們這個群體中有很多社會階層、不同背景、不同個性的人。我們一直在與他們合作，以盡可能降低服務成本，並能夠與公眾共同發展。但現在有了適當的安全保障，因為這裡的收入水平較低，而且自然存在一定程度的脆弱性，所以能夠提供一定的信貸額度。

But we've been learning again a few lessons that we knew in the past and that we brought to a model with a lot more intelligence behind it.

但是，我們又重新吸取了一些過去就已掌握的經驗教訓，並將其運用到一個更具智慧性的模型中。

So everything about machine learning, Gen AI, all of that to support what is managed and what is not management that is mostly digital is being used here with a lot of talent by our teams. So we will continue to evolve. And at the right time, we will bring more elements about the mass retail segment.

所以，機器學習、人工智慧等所有相關技術，以及所有支援管理和非管理（主要是數位化）的技術，都在這裡被我們的團隊和眾多人才所運用。所以我們會不斷發展。時機成熟時，我們將推出更多關於大眾零售領域的內容。

For SMEs, there may be a limitation of lines that will be determined for next year. I think we've been having a good year. I said that in another question that we had, both with FGI and FGO, we are tractioned. We are doing well, but there may be more limitations of the lines. But this is -- we have to wait naturally for each one of these programs to be convinced.

對於中小企業而言，明年可能會有生產線數量限制，具體數量將另行確定。我認為我們今年過得很好。我在另一個問題中說過，無論是FGI還是FGO，我們都取得了進展。我們目前進展順利，但線路可能還有更多限制。但是，我們自然需要等待每個項目都被說服。

I can only answer -- I mean, I cannot tell you if it will be or won't be yet. Thank you, Renato, for your questions.

我只能回答——我的意思是，我現在還不能告訴你它是否會發生。雷納托，謝謝你的提問。

Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

卡洛斯·戈麥斯-洛佩茲，匯豐銀行。

Hello, Andre. So I had, like everybody else, two questions.

你好，安德烈。所以，和其他人一樣，我也有兩個問題。

The first one is about funding that we haven't talked about. And in particular, we saw a big decline in demand deposits and saving deposits. Is that, in your opinion, related to the reduction in footprint? And what do you think your current market share is in those two lines in demand deposits and in saving deposits?

第一個問題是關於資金的，我們還沒有討論過。尤其值得注意的是，活期存款和儲蓄存款均大幅下降。您認為這與減少碳足跡有關嗎？那麼，您認為您目前在活期存款和儲蓄存款這兩個領域的市佔率分別是多少？

And second, on insurance, again, you continue to deliver very, very good results. And I'm going to ask once more about the sustainability of the results, specifically in health insurance, where your earnings are now twice the level that you had last year.

其次，在保險方面，你們也一直取得了非常非常好的成績。我還要再詢問業績的可持續性，特別是健康保險方面，你們現在的收入是去年的兩倍。

Thank you, Carlos. Andre you can start on subject of deposits right.

謝謝你，卡洛斯。安德烈，你可以開始討論存款問題了。

So I'll start talking about the deposits we've been acting here very significantly this year to optimize the customers' resources. And one of the measures was to reduce our LCR that was in the past at around 190%.

所以，我將開始談談存款問題。今年，我們在這裡採取了非常重要的行動，以優化客戶的資源。其中一項措施是降低我們的貸款償還率，過去約為 190%。

We brought it down to 150%. The minimum regulatory requirement is 100%. So we still have a lot of room to move, but we let go of expensive resources, especially in wholesale. And that does lead to a reduction of funding, but that was a decision -- a strategic decision we made to continue to reduce our cost of funding to improve the funding margin and to optimize the customers' resources.

我們把它降到了150%。最低監管要求為100%。所以我們還有很大的發展空間，但我們會放棄昂貴的資源，尤其是在批發方面。這確實會導致資金減少，但這是我們為了持續降低資金成本、提高資金利潤率和優化客戶資源而做出的策略決定。

Looking forward, I believe we have these cash management initiatives that translate into two important platforms. One, for financial solutions for SMEs and another for wholesale companies that we call Global Solutions.

展望未來，我相信我們推出的這些現金管理措施將轉化為兩個重要的平台。一個是中小企業的金融解決方案，另一個是批發公司的全球解決方案。

And both of them are measures that can greatly improve the payment experience. They can also improve our performance in funding and become a structuring favorable measure for our funding margin that starts to have an impact in 2026, and this impact will probably increase in the following years. So funding starting next year, counting on the cash management measures to help us.

這兩項措施都能大幅改善支付體驗。它們還可以改善我們的融資表現，並成為有利於我們融資利潤率的結構性措施，從 2026 年開始產生影響，而這種影響可能會在接下來的幾年裡增加。因此，資金將從明年開始到位，指望現金管理措施可以幫助我們。

I would just like to add a little bit, if I may, Carlos, thank you for your question, about the footprint, whether it has a relation with maybe the impact on demand deposits and savings, we believe it does not because most of customers are mostly digital.

卡洛斯，如果可以的話，我想補充一點。感謝你提出的關於足跡的問題，它是否與活期存款和儲蓄的影響有關，我們認為沒有關係，因為大多數客戶都是數位化客戶。

14 million are already working remotely, and we see that we continue to work and look at principality both on demand deposits and savings, there was no drop in terms of the footprint reduction, quite the opposite. We see more opportunities working on the NBO for those customers to bring the best offer for the low-, medium- and high-income customers. So somehow, the footprint has this relationship to bring a reduction in those points that you mentioned Carlos.

已有 1400 萬人遠距辦公，我們看到，我們繼續開展工作，並關注公國的活期存款和儲蓄業務，業務規模並未減少，恰恰相反。我們看到，在 NBO 平台上有更多機會為低收入、中等收入和高收入客戶提供最佳優惠。所以，在某種程度上，足跡與減少你提到的那些點有關，卡洛斯。

And there's another question about insurance, right? Ivan is with us, I believe, is online. Ivan, do you want to answer that part of the question that he asked about the sustainability of those results of the insurance group.

還有一個關於保險的問題，對吧？我相信伊凡和我們在一起，他在線。伊万，你想回答一下他提出的關於該保險集團業績可持續性的問題嗎？

Thank you Marcelo. So in terms of the sustainability of the results of the insurance group, we see looking retrospectively, we will find in the last three quarters consistently and in a linear way, we see growth not only in our operations, but also in our results.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。因此，就保險集團業績的可持續性而言，回顧過去，我們會發現，在過去的三個季度中，我們的業務和業績都持續線性成長。

So there's no oscillation, no variation even up or down. And that makes us comfortable to look prospectively also under a very positive light.

所以沒有波動，甚至沒有上下波動。這讓我們能夠以非常正面的眼光看待未來。

On the last quarter, we had growth in health of 9%. In this last quarter, we also saw growth in life insurance close to 10%. And the pension plans with all of its challenges also grow, especially VGBL and portability of VGBL as well as the products that we created, adding the risk or the premium, and that has been making a lot of difference for our growth.

上個季度，我們的健康業務成長了 9%。上個季度，人壽保險業務也成長了近 10%。退休金計劃及其面臨的各種挑戰也在不斷增長，特別是 VGBL 及其可攜帶性，以及我們創造的其他產品，增加了風險或保費，這對我們的成長產生了很大的影響。

Now in the business line and real estate and equipment, we grew close to 15%. And that makes us confident as well to look forward and say that we should continue or maintain the same level of growth, reaching the top of the guidance that we committed to at the beginning of the year.

現在，在業務線、房地產和設備方面，我們成長了近 15%。這也讓我們有信心展望未來，並表示我們應該繼續或維持同樣的成長水平，達到我們在年初承諾的最高目標。

Now in terms of the health insurance, the underwriting discipline, checking the improvement of the clients, we increased about 75,000 net lives this quarter. And in October, we already see the same growth level and the same base that we've been addressing in the recent periods. Regional products developed specifically for the region from the health company also gives us comfort in terms of the growth, considering that our product is a product that all Brazilians want to have, both for themselves and their families.

現在就健康保險而言，透過核保紀律和檢查客戶的改善情況，我們本季淨增加了約 75,000 名參保人。10 月份，我們已經看到了與我們近期一直關注的成長水準和基數相同的成長情況。這家健康公司專門為該地區開發的區域性產品也讓我們對成長感到欣慰，因為我們的產品是所有巴西人都想擁有的產品，無論是自己使用還是供家人使用。

The growth was mostly in operational lines. And obviously, the posture, the stance adopted to fight abuse or fraud makes us confident for this claims ratio that the Bradesco Saúde and the health care insurance group has reached this quarter.

成長主要體現在營運領域。顯然，布拉德斯科健康保險公司和該醫療保險集團為打擊濫用或詐欺所採取的姿態和立場，讓我們對本季達到的索賠率充滿信心。

These are my comments. Thank you, Carlos, for your question.

以下是我的評論。謝謝你的提問，卡洛斯。

Thank you, Ivan. And that's well noted. Bradesco Saúde, it's a premium insurance.

謝謝你，伊凡。這一點已牢記在心。Bradesco Saóde，這是一種高級保險。

Nishio, Genial.

西尾，和藹可親。

My question is about the credit cycle, more focus on SMEs and individuals. I would like to hear your comments on these two lines. We saw very good performance of SME, both in terms of NPL and growth, like one helps the other. That's the effect.

我的問題是關於信貸週期的，更側重於中小企業和個人。我想聽聽你們對這兩句話的看法。我們看到中小企業在不良貸款率和成長方面都表現出色，兩者相輔相成。這就是效果。

So the question is whether you still see room for further improvement of SME delinquency. And also looking on the individual segment, looking at your peers, despite the improvement, your NPL is still higher when compared to your peers.

所以問題是，您是否仍然認為中小企業違約問題有進一步改善的空間？此外，從個人層面來看，看看你的同行，儘管有所改善，但與同行相比，你的不良貸款率仍然較高。

But the question is whether you see room for improvement? And at what phase of this cleaning up you find yourselves and whether you think you're already going towards -- heading towards growth. I mean the cycle of '21 impacted both SMEs and individuals.

但問題是，你是否認為還有進步的空間？那麼，你們覺得自己處於清理工作的哪個階段呢？你們是否認為自己已經朝著成長的方向邁進？我的意思是，2021年的經濟週期對中小企業和個人都產生了影響。

So did you clean up the portfolio? Are you ready to grow more? Or you still feel that there is more room for improved delinquency further?

所以你已經清理了投資組合嗎？你準備好迎接更大的成長了嗎？或者您仍然認為在改善青少年犯罪方面還有更大的提升空間？

Thank you, Nishio. So first of all, over night, it was 4.1% in September. The base scenario is 4.1% in December. Slight deviations, I mean, about these numbers is natural, but the basic scenario shows stability of our NPL in aggregate terms.

謝謝你，西尾。首先，一夜之間，9 月的降幅為 4.1%。基準情境為12月份4.1%。我的意思是，這些數字出現輕微偏差是正常的，但基本情況表明，從總體上看，我們的不良貸款是穩定的。

SME, Marcelo, is insisting on that point. First of all, we were very cautious to concentrate our business in the secured portfolio, discount of receivables, rural credit with guarantees or collateral. So the new cohorts are showing good performance. And this is what is bringing NPL down. It could fall a little bit more, but the base scenario is for a certain stability given the economic stability that we anticipate going forward. So I think this is an important aspect.

中小企業負責人馬塞洛堅持這一點。首先，我們非常謹慎地將業務集中在有擔保的資產組合、應收帳款折現、有擔保或抵押的農村信貸上。所以，新一批學員表現良好。這就是導致NPL下滑的原因。雖然可能還會小幅下跌，但鑑於我們預期未來的經濟穩定，基本情境是維持一定的穩定性。所以我認為這是一個重要的方面。

When it comes to restructured portfolio, as Marcelo indicated, in 12 months, the troublesome part of it was down by almost BRL12 billion. And that was an important cleanup, but it's still possible to proceed with the derisking of our credit group.

就重組後的投資組合而言，正如馬塞洛所指出的，12 個月內，其中最棘手的部分減少了近 120 億雷亞爾。這是一項重要的清理工作，但我們仍可以繼續降低信貸集團的風險。

Nishio, thank you for your questions. I would just like to add to what Andre said. I still see SME as a line that will post a decrease in NPL. Everything is under control. But if I look at individuals, if I look at a further horizon going towards 2026, it depends on the mix that you have.

西尾，謝謝你的提問。我只想補充一下安德烈剛才說的話。我仍然認為中小企業的不良貸款率將會下降。一切都在掌控之中。但如果我著眼於個人，如果我展望更遠的未來，直到 2026 年，這取決於你所擁有的組合。

I said that in the year, the market grew more than in vehicles. But in the quarter, we grew more than the market. But if you draw the mix, you may even have a higher NPL. But eventually, I'm not saying it's there. But if you change the mix, like the auto, and you grow more than payroll loan, for instance, right?

我說過，這一年裡，市場成長速度超過了汽車市場。但本季我們的成長速度超過了市場平均。但如果你採用混合模式，不良貸款率甚至可能會更高。但最終，我並不是說它就在那裡。但如果你改變組合，例如增加汽車貸款，你的成長超過薪資貸款，對吧？

So then in this case, you could strike a balance in 2026. But always, return will be adjusted to risk. It will be a risk-adjusted return. So I don't see any problems with delinquency or NPL, but I see some decline with the SME portfolio still this quarter.

那麼在這種情況下，你可以在 2026 年達到平衡。但收益始終會根據風險進行調整。這將是經風險調整後的收益。因此，我沒有看到任何拖欠或不良貸款方面的問題，但本季中小企業貸款組合仍然出現一些下滑。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

Tito Labarta，高盛集團。

My question, you talked a little bit about our growth and you're growing in some segments where you feel more comfort, particularly more the secured lines and the other segments you're not growing, but you may increase your risk appetite going forward.

我的問題是，您剛才談到了我們的成長情況，您在某些您感覺比較有把握的領域實現了成長，特別是那些安全可靠的業務；而在其他領域，您並沒有實現成長，但您未來可能會提高風險承受能力。

Marcelo, if we go back after you became CEO, part of your strategic plan was to potentially increase market share in loans from the 14% to maybe 15% to 19%. Since then, your market share is still relatively stable. Just thinking -- how important do you think it will be to increase your market share in order to keep improving profitability?

馬塞洛，如果我們回顧一下你擔任執行長之後的情況，你的策略計畫之一是將貸款市場份額從 14% 提高到 15% 甚至 19%。自那時起，您的市場份額一直保持相對穩定。我只是在想──你認為為了持續提高獲利能力，提高市佔率有多重要？

Or should the focus be more maybe focused on the segments that are more profitable where your overall market share maybe matters less? Just how should we think about your ability to gain market share from here and how important that will be for you to improve your profitability going forward?

或者，是否應該將重點更多地放在利潤更高的細分市場，而將整體市場份額放在不那麼重要的位置？我們應該如何看待您從現在開始獲取市場份額的能力，以及這對您未來提高獲利能力的重要性？

[Marcelo], you start and then I'll follow.

馬塞洛，你先開始，然後我接著來。

When we announced that mission of increasing market share by 14% in that range of 15% to 19%, that was February last year. That involved a five-year plan, right?

去年二月，我們宣布了將市佔率提高 14% 的目標，目標是在 15% 到 19% 的範圍內實現這一目標。那其中涉及到一個五年計劃，對吧？

And in these five years, we have to take into account the economic landscape. Back then, interest rates were down. And what came next was an increase in the Selic rate to 15%. And now we are seeing the deceleration of the Brazilian economy as a consequence of this monetary squeeze.

在這五年裡，我們必須考慮到經濟狀況。當時利率很低。接下來，Selic 利率提高到了 15%。現在，我們看到巴西經濟因貨幣緊縮而放緩。

So considering the economic landscape now is appropriate to keep your risk appetite under control. I mean the financial situation of companies and families will improve with time. So naturally, the risk appetite of banks and companies will get better.

鑑於當前的經濟形勢，控制風險承受能力是適當的。我的意思是，隨著時間的推移，公司和家庭的財務狀況會改善。因此，銀行和企業的風險偏好自然會提高。

And then if that happens, we can look for better market share. At the time, we are very cautious. But as Marcelo was saying, our approach is very segmented. When we see that there is opportunity to gain market share, we will certainly go after it. I mean, high RER because what we want is to increase our share.

如果這種情況發生，我們就可以尋求更大的市場佔有率。當時，我們非常謹慎。但正如馬塞洛所說，我們的方法非常細分。當我們發現有機會獲得市場份額時，我們一定會抓住機會。我的意思是，高實際匯率率是因為我們想要增加我們的份額。

So in all the lines that we see opportunities, we will certainly grow market share. I mean, short time is not the main goal. The main goal is to increase profitability consistently.

因此，在所有我們看到機會的領域，我們一定會擴大市場份額。我的意思是，時間短並不是主要目標。主要目標是持續提高獲利能力。

I would just like to add something else, Tito. Thank you for your question. Looking ahead, our mission remains the one of gaining share in that interval that I showed you in the plan, right?

蒂托，我還想補充一點。謝謝你的提問。展望未來，我們的任務仍然是在我計劃中向你們展示的那個時間段內獲得市場份額，對嗎？

But what do I see in a shorter period of time? We had good growth. If we didn't have -- as I said during my presentation, if we didn't have an issue in the large corporate portfolio, we would have come down over 10% year-on-year, but where do we have more traction? I mean, payroll loan of individuals. It accounts for approximately 15% of our total portfolio, and we will gain share right there.

但是，在更短的時間內我能看到什麼呢？我們取得了良好的成長。正如我在演講中所說，如果我們沒有大型企業投資組合方面的問題，我們的同比降幅將超過 10%，但我們在哪些方面更有發展動力呢？我指的是個人薪資貸款。它約占我們總投資組合的 15%，我們將從中獲得份額。

Mortgage loan, you may have one or another bank that will get a little bit market share, but we will also gain share here in mortgage loans. I mean, on both sides. I mean corporate side, individuals, also keeping a significant amount of that because I think we have close to 20% of share.

在抵押貸款領域，或許會有一家或多家銀行佔據一些市場份額，但我們也會在抵押貸款領域獲得市場份額。我的意思是，雙方都是如此。我的意思是，企業方面，個人方面，也保留了相當一部分份額，因為我認為我們擁有接近 20% 的份額。

Now auto, we see opportunities there, too. Obviously, if you look at the whole picture, there are some different areas. And you have new vehicles. When you look at individuals, you have people with more appetite than we have to go after these clients. And the same thing goes for corporate. But looking at rural clients with some -- we do have good relationships and a good appetite to do the same thing with individuals and entities.

現在，在汽車領域，我們也看到了機會。顯然，從整體上看，這其中包含一些不同的領域。而且你們還有新車。當你觀察個體時，你會發現有些人比我們更有熱情去爭取這些客戶。企業界的情況也是如此。但就農村客戶而言——我們與一些個人和實體建立了良好的關係，並且非常樂意與他們進行相同的合作。

On corporate side, there are different categories. These lines of FGI and FGO, we performed well so far this year. We still see that we have enough room to gain more share. I can even say that we are gaining share with SMEs as I was showing you during my presentation. So there is room for us to grow in SMEs this working capital on the business side as well, rural the same heavy and passenger vehicles, the same thing.

企業方面，也分為不同的類別。今年到目前為止，FGI 和 FGO 這兩條產品線表現都不錯。我們仍然認為我們還有足夠的空間來獲得更多市場份額。我甚至可以說，正如我在演講中向你們展示的那樣，我們正在贏得中小企業的市場份額。因此，中小企業在營運資金方面還有成長空間，農村地區也是如此，重型和乘用車都是同樣的情況。

So all of these lines are priority lines, and they are a good focus for us. The idea is that at the end of 2028, we will be in that interval that we presented when we introduced our transformation plan.

所以這些都是優先線路，也是我們關注的重點。我們的想法是，到 2028 年底，我們將處於我們在推出轉型計畫時所提出的階段。

But we're doing everything with the right choices, adequate risk appetite, portfolio management and growing in areas that can be traction and penetrated most of it through digital and the physical world. And we will just go forward because the idea is to gain more share with risk-adjusted return. Again, I insist on that point. I was saying that we were growing above market in the quarter, but always with risk-adjusted returns.

但是，我們所做的一切都基於正確的選擇、適當的風險承受能力、投資組合管理，並在能夠獲得成長的領域不斷擴大，並且透過數位和實體世界滲透到其中的大部分領域。我們將繼續前進，因為我們的目標是在風險調整後的回報基礎上獲得更多市場份額。我再次強調這一點。我當時說的是，我們本季的成長超過了市場平均水平，但始終是經過風險調整後的收益。

We now conclude the Q&A session. The questions that could not be answered at this time, our IR team will then answer your questions after the presentation.

問答環節到此結束。本次演講未能解答的問題，我們的投資人關係團隊將在演講結束後解答。

And before I turn the floor over to Marcelo for his final remarks, I would like to say that this presentation is available in the entire material related to this earnings release presentation is available in our IR website.

在將發言權交給馬塞洛做最後總結發言之前，我想說，本次盈利發布演示文稿的全部相關資料都可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

First of all, I would like to thank you very much, Andre, Cassiano and all my colleagues that are always here with us in our studio. I would like to thank the entire team of Bradesco, all of our employees and the ones that are constantly engaged every day, looking at customer engagement, looking at everything that happens in the bank, including the insurance company, consortia, the consumer finance area of the bank. And most of all, I'd like to thank you, sell-side analysts.

首先，我要非常感謝安德烈、卡西亞諾以及所有一直和我們一起在工作室的同事們。我要感謝布拉德斯科銀行的全體團隊，感謝我們所有的員工，感謝那些每天兢兢業業、關注客戶互動、關注銀行所有業務（包括保險公司、財團、銀行消費金融部門）的員工。最重要的是，我要感謝賣方分析師們。

You are always interested in participating in this event. So we have an IR team very much engaged and ready to talk to you about the results and the outlook and the buy side guys as well, clients that are with us at this time as well. So again, thank you very much. And I reinstate the trust we have in everything we're doing. I do apologize again for that avatar because we were asking [Ferbia] to do something and then they put my avatar.

你一直對參加這項活動很感興趣。因此，我們的投資者關係團隊非常積極地準備與您討論業績和前景，買方人士以及目前與我們合作的客戶也可以與我們交流。再次非常感謝。我重申我們對所做一切的信任。我再次為那個頭像道歉，因為我們當時請 [Ferbia] 做某件事，結果他們用了我的頭像。

But I promise that next time, I won't have that avatar again. But let's move on. We are certain that next quarter, we will certainly deliver great numbers. Thank you all, and have a very nice week.

但我保證下次不會再用那個頭像了。但我們還是繼續吧。我們確信下個季度我們一定會取得非常好的業績。謝謝大家，祝大家一週愉快。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄稿中的英文陳述是由現場通話中的口譯員翻譯的。本次活動的翻譯人員由活動贊助公司提供。