Banco Bradesco SA (BBDO) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. I am Marcelo Noronha. I'm speaking directly from the headquarters of Bradesco at Cidade de Deus to present our earnings results referring to the second quarter of 2025. We are speaking live. It is now 10:31 AM in Brazil. Thank you very much to all of you for joining us in another earnings conference call.

（翻譯）大家早安。我是馬塞洛·諾羅尼亞。我直接從位於 Cidade de Deus 的 Bradesco 總部向您介紹我們 2025 年第二季的獲利結果。我們正在現場講話。巴西時間現在是上午 10:31。非常感謝大家參加我們的另一場收益電話會議。

Almost straight to the point to what matters. We disclosed yesterday our earnings. We reached a recurring net income of BRL6.1 billion, posting a significant 28.6% growth year over year with an ROAE 14.6%, plus up 3.2 percentage points year on year.

幾乎直接切中要點。我們昨天披露了我們的收益。我們的經常性淨收入達到 61 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 28.6%，ROAE 為 14.6%，年成長 3.2 個百分點。

So what is the summary of our earnings in this quarter? Firstly, we believe that our operating results showed consistency in all of the line items particularly in the top line -- in the main revenue streams and I mention NII net of provisions, fee and commission income, especially fees and another good quarterly result of the insurance group.

那麼我們本季的收益總結是什麼？首先，我們認為，我們的經營業績在所有項目中都表現出一致性，特別是在主要收入來源中，我提到了扣除撥備後的淨收入、費用和佣金收入，特別是費用以及保險集團的另一個良好的季度業績。

Operating expenses are under control. The loan book is absolutely under control over 90-day NPLs indicated, over 15-day NPL, all under control, Stage 3 as well as I will be showing you momentarily. So the organization has a lot of traction and matching the plan that we presented in February of last year.

營運費用得到控制。貸款帳簿完全處於控制之中，90 天的不良貸款、15 天的不良貸款，都在控制之中，第 3 階段以及我將立即向您展示的內容。因此，該組織具有很大的吸引力，並且符合我們去年 2 月提出的計劃。

So we have changed the bank and run the bank very well connected with a lot of intersections between the two, a lot of deliveries and the use of GenAI to help us gain productivity and efficiency across the organization. So this is the summary. And based on that, we are delivering consistent results in our view.

因此，我們改變了銀行，並透過兩者之間的許多交叉、大量交付和使用 GenAI 來很好地運營銀行，以幫助我們提高整個組織的生產力和效率。這就是總結。基於此，我們認為我們正在取得一致的成果。

Here, our attempt is to present cause and effect because net income, the operating result is the result of all of the seeds that have been planted and everything that is being done in the organization. So here, we have total revenue of BRL34 billion, up 15.1% year on year and in the quarter, up 5.2% quarter on quarter.

在這裡，我們嘗試展示因果關係，因為淨收入、經營成果是組織中已經種下的所有種子和正在進行的一切工作的結果。因此，我們的總營收為 340 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 15.1%，本季環比成長 5.2%。

Here, we have the bar chart showing the level of revenue growing. Of course, the first quarter is always less accelerated in our industry, but we can see coherent perennial growth. And since we presented our plan, we said that we were going to do things step-by-step with consistency. Total net interest income growing a lot in the quarter and year on year. Fee and commission income above 10% increase year on year and more than 5% quarter on quarter.

這裡，我們有顯示收入成長水準的長條圖。當然，我們行業第一季的成長速度總是比較慢，但我們可以看到持續的長期成長。自從我們提出計劃以來，我們就說過要一步一步、堅持不懈地做事。本季和去年同期的總淨利息收入均大幅成長。手續費及佣金收入較去年同期成長10%以上，較上季成長5%以上。

Insurance, pension plans and saving bonds growing 6.5% quarter on quarter, 21.7% year on year. And this is the effect of our activities, very strong activities across the organization and related companies. Now speaking about the expanded loan book. So it leads to the financial revenue, of which I will speak momentarily. Our portfolio reached BRL1,018 billion, growing 1.3% quarter on quarter and 11.3% year on year.

保險、退休金計畫和儲蓄債券季增6.5%，年增21.7%。這就是我們的活動的效果，整個組織和相關公司所進行的非常強大的活動。現在談論擴大的貸款帳簿。因此，它會帶來財政收入，我稍後會談到這一點。我們的投資組合達到 1,0180 億巴西雷亞爾，季增 1.3%，年增 11.3%。

And here, we can see three main points. In large corporates, we're not growing for two reasons. We normally say that in large corporates, we can grow BRL10 billion in one quarter and in the next settle the same amount. We had some settlement due to the IOF in May and June. And another phenomenon is that we've been using our origination for distribution, OPD.

這裡我們可以看到三個重點。在大型企業中，我們沒有成長有兩個原因。我們通常說，在大公司中，我們可以在一個季度成長 100 億雷亞爾，並在下一個季度結算相同的金額。我們在五月和六月與以色列國防軍達成了一些和解。另一個現像是，我們一直在使用我們的起源進行分銷，即 OPD。

Where we have the ventures in the capital markets, we carry part of it for the secondary market later and to improve adjusted return. And if we look at all of the line items, we are growing practically all of them in the quarter, and we're growing significantly in the year, mainly in individuals, micro and SMEs.

當我們在資本市場上進行投資時，我們會將其中的一部分轉移到二級市場，以提高調整後的回報。如果我們看一下所有的項目，我們在本季度幾乎所有項目都實現了成長，並且我們在今年實現了顯著成長，主要是在個人、微型和中小企業方面。

We are growing in lines which are backed by collaterals. So we have here the growth in total revenue. I spoke about large corporates, and the big highlight Individuals, growing almost 16% into year over year. Again, important growth in more -- in safer collateralized portfolios with good ratings.

我們正在以抵押品為支撐的業務中不斷成長。因此，我們在這裡看到了總收入的成長。我談到了大型企業，其中最引人注目的是個人，其年成長近 16%。再次強調，在評級良好、更安全的抵押投資組合中，成長尤為重要。

Micro, small and medium-sized enterprises, a big highlight here, growing 25.2%. At the end of the presentation, I will again speak about cost and effect. The effect of this growth is that it results in NII, fee income. And all of this is the result of all of the decisions made INSS our change and run the bank, in of the segments.

其中，中小微型企業成為一大亮點，成長25.2%。在演講的最後，我將再次談論成本和效果。這種成長的效果是產生了NII，即費用收入。而這一切都是 INSS 在各環節所做的變革和銀行營運決策的結果。

Individuals and enterprises and companies. And I'll speak about this later on, but let me give you a preview. If we leave behind the segmentation and targeting of each bank, if we look at the segmentation by the Central Bank of Brazil. SMEs, for them, our companies making up to BRL300 million a year. All banks have to inform this regardless of how they call the segments.

個人、企業和公司。我稍後會談到這一點，但請允許我先給大家一個預覽。如果我們拋開每家銀行的細分和目標，我們來看看巴西中央銀行的細分。對於中小企業來說，我們的公司每年可以為他們創造高達3億雷亞爾的收入。所有銀行都必須告知這一點，無論它們如何稱呼這些部門。

And we see that Bradesco is a leading bank -- is a leader, and we have been growing our assets in this segment of companies earning or making up to BRL300 million a year. So moving on, we see here the traction of credit, resulting in growth of net interest income, growing almost 16% year on year, 4.7% up quarter on quarter, with credit provisions growing NII net of provisions, BRL9.9 billion. And here, I will explain the numbers. I can tell you that we are quite flat here.

我們看到，Bradesco 是一家領先的銀行，是行業領導者，我們一直在增加這一領域的資產，每年為該領域的公司賺取高達 3 億巴西雷亞爾。接下來，我們看到信貸的牽引力，導致淨利息收入成長，年增近 16%，季增 4.7%，信貸撥備淨額成長至 99 億巴西雷亞爾。在這裡，我將解釋這些數字。我可以告訴你，我們這裡相當平坦。

We integrated John Deere Bank in Q1. And of course, our rural loans have the highest expected loss in the month of May. In June, this is already dropping. So we have a cost here which is slightly higher because of that. If we were not having this consolidation, our cost of risk would be between [3% and 3.1%]. Since we've been growing large companies, we have a denominator effect.

我們在第一季整合了約翰迪爾銀行。當然，我們的農村貸款在五月的預期損失最高。到了六月份，這一數字已經開始下降。因此我們的成本會稍微高一些。如果我們沒有進行這種整合，我們的風險成本將在[3% 和 3.1%]。由於我們一直在發展大公司，所以我們有分母效應。

So I can tell you that we have expenses with LLP are flat. Market NII BRL300 million, we were expecting it to be zero or negative, given the pressure of interest rates of almost 15% on ALM. And this is not happening by chance.

所以我可以告訴你，我們與 LLP 的支出是持平的。市場 NII 為 3 億巴西雷亞爾，考慮到 ALM 面臨近 15% 的利率壓力，我們預計它將為零或負值。這並不是偶然發生的。

It's happening because of the level of activity we have in our customers desk combined with loan production, loan origination in the wholesale bank. And all of that results in trading positions and with our new energy desk that also creates revenues.

這種情況的發生是因為我們客戶服務台的活動水準與批發銀行的貸款生產和貸款發放相結合。所有這些都會帶來交易頭寸，而我們的新能源部門也會創造收入。

ALM, trading energy operating really well and bringing us the results. And when we look at client NII, growing almost BRL18 billion, 8.8% spread, a nominal growth superior to the growth that we saw in Q1, BRL1 billion and also growing consistently. And more importantly, client NII net of provisions growing 20.7% year on year, BRL9.6 billion. That's really important to us. And the result combined with market NII.

ALM，交易能源運作良好並為我們帶來了成果。當我們查看客戶 NII 時，它增長了近 180 億巴西雷亞爾，利差為 8.8%，名目增長率高於我們在第一季度看到的 10 億巴西雷亞爾的增長，並且還在持續增長。更重要的是，客戶NII淨額扣除撥備後較去年同期成長20.7%，達到96億巴西雷亞爾。這對我們來說真的很重要。並將結果與市場NII結合。

And this is important because it has an effect on the bottom line. NII net of provisions, almost BRL10 billion, 19.4% year on year, growing in the quarter as well, but with consistency and balance in several line items and work fronts.

這很重要，因為它會影響底線。扣除撥備後的淨收入接近 100 億巴西雷亞爾，同比增長 19.4%，本季度也實現了增長，但在多個項目和工作方面保持了一致性和平衡性。

Credit quality over 90-day NPL quite balanced and flat. And here, there's a note of 15 to 90 is no longer the indicator. And so 15 to 90-day NPL also flat and representation or share by stage, Stage 3 growing, growing more than 10 basis points in the last quarter at 7.9%.

90天不良貸款的信用品質相當均衡且平穩。在這裡，15 到 90 的音符不再是指標。因此，15 至 90 天的不良貸款也持平，並按階段表示或份額，第 3 階段增長，上一季增長超過 10 個基點，達到 7.9%。

Stage 2 is slightly higher here. It doesn't mean it's a bad portfolio, it's classification by expected loss and consolidated mix with John Deere influenced that indicator. If it weren't for that, this indicator would be flat as well.

第 2 階段在這裡稍微高一點。這並不意味著這是一個糟糕的投資組合，而是預期損失的分類以及與約翰迪爾的合併組合影響了這個指標。如果不是這樣，這個指標也會持平。

Important data. Restructured portfolio is dropping. Last year, we reduced by BRL4.5 billion in this portfolio. If we look at our not cured portfolio, in this year alone, we can see there was a reduction of 5.4 basis points, reaching a total of BRL30 billion.

重要數據。重組後的投資組合正在下降。去年，我們減少了該投資組合中的 45 億巴西雷亞爾。如果我們看一下未治癒的投資組合，光是今年，我們就可以看到減少了 5.4 個基點，總計達到 300 億巴西雷亞爾。

And here, we see the evolution of the secured portfolio reaching 58.5%, up from 57%. So origination is growing a lot more in secured loans vis-a-vis unsecured portfolio. Fee and commission income, again, speaking about constant effect.

在這裡，我們看到擔保投資組合的演變從 57% 上升至 58.5%。因此，與無擔保貸款相比，擔保貸款的發放量成長得更快。手續費及佣金收入，再次談到持續效應。

Fee and commission income grows because of activity. And we show here with a highlight BRL10.3 billion growing 10.6% year on year, 5.5% quarter on quarter. And three highlights here in this quarter. Card income, almost 20% growth year on year and especially in high income and not in the other markets, open market poses a greater risk, BRL4.5 billion in the quarter, 3.3% quarter on quarter. And also consortium management another strong quarter, almost 21% growth year on year, and we regained leadership in movable assets.

手續費及佣金收入因活動而成長。我們在此重點介紹的是 103 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 10.6%，季增 5.5%。本季有三大亮點。信用卡營收年增近20%，尤其是在高收入市場而非其他市場，公開市場帶來的風險更大，本季為45億巴西雷亞爾，季增3.3%。財團管理也再創佳績，年增近 21%，我們重新奪回了動產領域的領先地位。

And our investment banking capital markets surprising with this number. We had strong M&A activity, number one position on M&A ranking. But what draws my attention is this growth, almost 34% growth year on year and almost 76% growth quarter on quarter.

而我們的投資銀行資本市場對這個數字感到驚訝。我們的併購活動強勁，在併購排名中排名第一。但引起我注意的是這種成長，年成長近34%，較上季成長近76%。

And this is the result of our activities, a well-balanced pipeline, our team, I'll speak about this in the end of the presentation, good origination and good activity considering wholesale bank, retail bank, treasury, everything gave us traction and led to even more gains in these activities. We are very confident of our investment banking and global markets activities.

這是我們活動的結果，一個均衡的管道，我們的團隊，我將在演示結束時談到這一點，考慮到批發銀行、零售銀行、財務部門的良好起源和良好活動，一切都給了我們動力，並在這些活動中取得了更多的收益。我們對我們的投資銀行和全球市場活動非常有信心。

Operating expenses reached BRL15.9 billion, this year over year growth and quarter on quarter growth. Now let's zoom in our operating expenses. When we break it down, personnel and administrative, we see the growth was 4.9%. If you look at the complete earnings, you will see that administrative expenses have a negative growth, and that's the result of several actions to gain efficiency. And these will continue along 2026, '27, '28.

營業費用達159億巴西雷亞爾，年成長，季增。現在讓我們放大我們的營運費用。當我們細分人員和行政管理時，我們發現成長率為 4.9%。如果你看完整的收益，你會發現管理費用出現了負增長，這是為提高效率而採取的多項措施的結果。這些情況將會持續到 2026、2027、2028 年。

One of them is the adjustment in our footprint compared with June 2024, we are talking about more than 1,500 service points reduced until now. And personnel growth is linked to greater result, profit sharing, variable compensation.

其中之一就是與 2024 年 6 月相比，我們的足跡有所調整，到目前為止，我們已經減少了 1,500 多個服務點。人員成長與更大的績效、利潤分享、浮動薪酬有關。

Even with these adjustments, we grew our client base by more than 1 million. And when we look at an indicator that I showed you in the last two quarter calls, all of our payment companies, Elopar, Livelo, Cielo, all of them have been making important investments. Cielo has been going through a strong transformation with good investments.

即使進行了這些調整，我們的客戶群仍然增加了 100 多萬。當我們查看我在過去兩個季度電話會議中向您展示的指標時，我們會發現我們所有的支付公司，Elopar、Livelo、Cielo，它們都在進行重要投資。Cielo 一直在透過良好的投資經歷強勁的轉型。

OpEx and CapEx, excluding this in our comparison base, when we look at all operating expenses directly under our control, year over year growth was 5.8%. In other words, expenses are controlled despite our robust transformation plan.

營運支出和資本支出（在我們的比較基數中不包括此項）當我們查看我們直接控制的所有營運支出時，年成長率為 5.8%。換句話說，儘管我們制定了強有力的轉型計劃，但費用仍受到控制。

We're hiring a lot of technology people, people working with data, and also in our credit BU, so regardless of the adjustment in our footprint. Individuals group posting another strong quarter with this level of net income, BRL2.3 billion, 4.4% up year on year and ROAE of almost 22%. That's another highlight.

我們正在招募大量技術人員、資料工作者以及信貸業務人員，因此無論我們的業務範圍如何調整。個人集團本季業績表現強勁，淨收入達 23 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 4.4%，ROAE 接近 22%。這是另一個亮點。

So robust revenues and the results of Insurance operations and that's included in our guidance. And we can see that the result is primarily operational, 31.1% growth year over year in all line items. Although the insurance group is very much down to earth in their provisions, they have very balanced provisions, but we see growth in the level of activity.

因此，強勁的收入和保險業務的業績都包含在我們的指導中。我們可以看到，結果主要是營運方面的，所有項目年增 31.1%。儘管保險集團的撥備非常務實，撥備非常均衡，但我們看到其活動水準有所成長。

And this is a result of management. This is the result of commercialization through our internal channels, selling to all client segments in the organization and all external channels that work with insurance group, resulting in technical provisions that are robust BRL425 billion in the quarter, growing 11.2% year on year, 2.6% quarter on quarter.

這是管理的結果。這是我們透過內部管道進行商業化、向組織內的所有客戶群以及與保險集團合作的所有外部管道進行銷售的結果，導致本季度技術準備金強勁增長至 4250 億巴西雷亞爾，同比增長 11.2%，環比增長 2.6%。

So now let's talk about our capital. We continue to see a lot of consistency. As we've announced, we've been talking about this since late last year that we would have stable capital. So Tier 1 is 13% now going up common equity to 11.1%, although we've paid out all the dividend as the market knows. Now looking at our guidance, most -- all of the indicators now converge to our guidance because of a few facts.

現在我們來談談我們的首都。我們繼續看到很多一致性。正如我們所宣布的，我們從去年年底就一直在談論這一點，我們將擁有穩定的資本。因此，一級資本現在為 13%，普通股權益上升至 11.1%，儘管市場知道我們已經支付了所有股息。現在看看我們的指導，由於一些事實，大多數 - 所有指標現在都與我們的指導一致。

First, the economy in the second half of the year tends to be slower. The demand will be slower in the second half of the year because we are now at the peak in terms of interest rate. We have heard comments by the National Monetary Council telling us the economic activity is stronger but slower than the last quarter. That is we see a slower. It doesn't mean we will stop growing what is good.

一是下半年經濟成長趨於放緩。由於現在利率處於峰值，因此下半年的需求將會放緩。我們聽到國家貨幣委員會的評論，表示經濟活動比上一季更強勁，但成長速度較慢。也就是說我們看到的速度較慢。這並不意味著我們將停止種植優質作物。

We want to continue to grow in everything that is good. Next to our baseline. If you look at the insurance group, we had very strong numbers in Q3 and Q4 2024. So that's a higher baseline. If you look at the expanded loan portfolio, the same thing happened in the last year we had a strong growth.

我們希望在所有美好的事物上繼續成長。緊鄰我們的基線。如果你看一下保險集團，你會發現我們在 2024 年第三季和第四季的業績非常強勁。所以這是一個更高的基線。如果你看一下擴大後的貸款組合，你會發現去年也發生了同樣的事情，我們實現了強勁成長。

But now closing the year 2025, we will converge towards the guidance. As you've seen, we made 2 changes because these 2 indicators had more traction. So they could grow higher. Fee and commission income up to 5% to 9% and Insurance from 6% to 10% now from 9% to 13%. These were the adjustments we made.

但現在即將進入 2025 年，我們將朝著指導目標邁進。如您所見，我們做出了兩項更改，因為這兩個指標具有更大的吸引力。這樣它們就能長得更高。手續費和佣金收入從 5% 上升至 9%，保險收入從 6% 上升至 10%，現從 9% 上升至 13%。這些都是我們所做的調整。

Now let me give you a brief summary of our initiatives, change the bank and run the bank, both coordinated and connected to show you that we have a lot of traction. We had great deliveries. So this is a summary. I will also make a few comments about technology. We had a reduction in the lead time.

現在讓我向你們簡要介紹一下我們的舉措，改變銀行並經營銀行，既協調又聯繫，以向你們展示我們具有很大的吸引力。我們的交付非常順利。這就是一個總結。我還將對技術發表一些評論。我們的交貨時間縮短了。

We've improved productivity. I also want to talk about our wholesale bank and SMEs. And tell you that in this quarter, we've expanded the number of Bradesco Principal offices. We have seven new offices now. We have been working on our culture and our cultural evolution with Sou Bradesco and training the team, and we continue to hire employees.

我們提高了生產力。我還想談談我們的批發銀行和中小企業。並且告訴您，在本季度，我們擴大了 Bradesco Principal 辦公室的數量。我們現在有七個新辦事處。我們一直在與巴西布拉德斯科銀行合作，致力於我們的文化和文化變革，並對團隊進行培訓，我們將繼續招募員工。

These were colleagues that were outsourced and they are now our employees. And we're also hiring from the market so that we will have our own team of employees working in tech. So let me break down a few of these line items to provide more qualitative information to you.

這些都是外包的同事，現在是我們的員工。我們也從市場上招募人才，以便我們擁有自己的技術員工團隊。因此，讓我分解其中的幾個項目，以便為您提供更多定性資訊。

First, let me go back here to talk about GenAI again and how much it means to our organization and also where we stand. So here, we have three blocks to try and make it easier to understand.

首先，讓我再回到這裡談論 GenAI，以及它對我們組織的意義以及我們的立場。因此，這裡我們有三個區塊來嘗試使其更容易理解。

We had a debate with the Brazilian Federation of Banks, and there was a lot of talk about GenAI. And I also talked about this with you in previous presentation, speaking about some of our initiatives. In the first block, we are looking at technology efficiency. So now we have IT closer to the business.

我們與巴西銀行聯合會進行了辯論，並就 GenAI 進行了大量討論。我在之前的演講中也和大家討論過這個問題，談到了我們的一些舉措。在第一個區塊中，我們關注的是技術效率。因此，現在我們的 IT 更加貼近業務。

Last year, we've implemented the enterprise agents. So now they're fully operational, and we've expanded that quite quickly and together with IT and technology and also credit recovery and collections. They worked together and using a lot of GenAI, building scripts with clients. Every day, we're making changes, making modifications to these scripts depending on the level of success. Also, we have two multi-agent projects. It is important to say that we had a test.

去年，我們實施了企業代理。現在它們已全面投入運營，我們已迅速擴展了業務範圍，並結合了 IT 和技術以及信用追償和收款。他們共同合作，使用大量 GenAI，與客戶一起建立腳本。每天，我們都在根據成功的程度對這些腳本進行更改和修改。此外，我們還有兩個多代理項目。值得一提的是，我們進行了一次測試。

We worked with two large consulting companies to include multi-agent projects and large legacy systems. One of them is in COBOL language on the mainframe. Now we went on to the second stage, and we're now beginning the third stage of this project.

我們與兩家大型顧問公司合作，涵蓋多代理專案和大型遺留系統。其中之一是大型主機上的COBOL語言。現在我們進入了第二階段，並且正在開始這個專案的第三階段。

These two legacy systems will be delivered in the cloud using new technology by year-end using multi-agents or virtual squads combined with squads including human colleagues. And that will be done also in other projects.

這兩個遺留系統將在年底前使用新技術在雲端交付，使用多代理或虛擬小隊與包括人類同事在內的小隊結合。其他項目也將這樣做。

We've been using GenAI also in the chat with customers, more than 5 million customers are already using. And here, you can see a combination of indicators to show how much our productivity has improved. So making a comparison between 2024 and 2025, we've had an improvement of 58% in terms of efficiency.

我們也在與客戶的聊天中使用 GenAI，目前已有超過 500 萬客戶在使用。在這裡，您可以看到一系列指標，顯示我們的生產力提高了多少。因此，將 2024 年與 2025 年進行比較，我們的效率提高了 58%。

Looking at productivity gain in virtual squads using multi-agent AI plus other technology, some important tools that we are using. Now with Copilot supporting our developers, our product developers and storytellers, we've improved our productivity all in all by 94%.

透過使用多智能體 AI 和其他技術來觀察虛擬小隊的生產力提升，我們正在使用一些重要的工具。現在，在 Copilot 的支持下，我們的開發人員、產品開發人員和故事講述者的整體生產力提高了 94%。

I mean if you look at our capacity, I mean, we are gaining productivity but not because we want to reduce cost. No, because we want to optimize our resources and deliver more, remove legacy systems to deliver a better experience and have more efficiency in our processes. And different teams in different departments, including legal.

我的意思是，如果你看看我們的產能，我們的生產力正在提高，但不是因為我們想降低成本。不，因為我們希望優化我們的資源並提供更多服務，刪除遺留系統以提供更好的體驗並提高流程效率。不同部門有不同的團隊，包括法律部門。

So if I look at December 2023 and compared to now, our delivery capacity is 3 times greater. And this efficiency gains, so now we have a lower cost per application, and we will see that in the bottom line, but also providing a better experience to customers, more productivity, higher personalization, using a lot of intelligence behind the relationship with customers and proprietary tools to gain productivity.

因此，如果我展望 2023 年 12 月並與現在相比，我們的交付能力將會提高 3 倍。隨著效率的提高，我們現在每個應用程式的成本更低了，而且我們將在底線中看到這一點，同時還能為客戶提供更好的體驗、更高的生產力、更高的個人化，利用與客戶關係背後的大量智慧和專有工具來提高生產力。

I told you about our developers. I also spoke about BIA tech in the meeting at Febraban and also here talking to you. This tool supports our developers, our squads, bringing 58% more efficiency. And the environment is fully organized and prepared for the developers working in our squads. And via BIA GenAI and the new BIA will not be available for 100% of our customers.

我向你介紹了我們的開發人員。我也在 Febraban 會議上談到了 BIA 技術，並且在這裡也和你們交談過。該工具為我們的開發人員和團隊提供支持，使效率提高了 58%。並且環境已經完全組織好並為我們團隊中的開發人員做好了準備。透過 BIA GenAI 和新的 BIA 將無法為 100% 的客戶提供服務。

Compared to the first BIA, the first BIA was based on a different technology. This one now has 50% more accuracy. It's really impressive the Bradesco artificial intelligence, our BIA. And let me also speak about Bridge.

與第一個 BIA 相比，第一個 BIA 基於不同的技術。現在這個的準確率提高了 50%。Bradesco 的人工智慧，也就是我們的 BIA，確實令人印象深刻。我也來談談 Bridge。

Bridge is a technology to help us use GenAI, and we have more than 200 initiatives across the board in the organization using Bridge, Bradesco intelligence of generative data, so you know what the acronym stands for.

Bridge 是一種幫助我們使用 GenAI 的技術，我們組織內有超過 200 個計畫使用 Bridge、Bradesco 產生資料智能，所以你知道這個縮寫代表什麼。

And in terms of education and technological development, we are now using new technology, new technological processes. We acquired 100% of Kunumi, we've already announced. And here, we have very specific deliveries in credit, in portfolio management using multi-agent squads to develop our models.

在教育和技術發展方面，我們現在正在使用新技術、新技術流程。我們已經收購了 Kunumi 100% 的股份，我們已經宣布了這一點。在這裡，我們在信貸、投資組合管理方面有非常具體的交付，使用多代理小組來開發我們的模型。

So these are really important deliverables developed by approximately 100 employees who hold a PhD, who are true experts. We already have an institute with 12 labs plus 15 in final negotiation because our goal is to have one lab in each state of Brazil in time, so that we will spread our tech culture through our Tech Academy providing training.

因此，這些都是非常重要的可交付成果，由大約 100 名擁有博士學位的員工開發，他們都是真正的專家。我們已經擁有一個擁有 12 個實驗室的機構，另外還有 15 個實驗室正在最終談判中，因為我們的目標是及時在巴西每個州建立一個實驗室，以便我們能夠透過提供培訓的技術學院傳播我們的技術文化。

We now have the Copilot Premium A5 to 100% of our associates logged here in the bank, including our trainee personnel. So some using that for development and using GenAI to learn about that so that we have our true tech culture because the final result is higher productivity, as I've mentioned.

現在，我們銀行的所有員工（包括實習生）都已使用 Copilot Premium A5 登入。因此，有些人利用它來進行開發，並使用 GenAI 來學習這一點，以便我們擁有真正的技術文化，因為最終的結果是更高的生產力，正如我所提到的。

Now I have three more slides. To conclude my presentation, we have been using machine learning and GenAI to support customer management and the applications used by individual customers and companies. That's why I have two slides to speak about our company customers.

現在我還有三張投影片。在我的演講結束時，我們一直在使用機器學習和 GenAI 來支援客戶管理以及個人客戶和公司使用的應用程式。這就是為什麼我有兩張投影片來談論我們公司的客戶。

So large companies and SMEs. We have a high penetration rate in all segments. Our wholesale bank is now even more sophisticated. We have six business segments. All of these segments in addition to the investment bank and global markets operating in Brazil and abroad.

所以有大公司和中小企業。我們在所有領域都有很高的滲透率。我們的批發銀行現在變得更加成熟了。我們有六個業務部門。所有這些部門除了投資銀行業務外，還經營巴西和國外的全球市場業務。

And with this segmentation, I mean, we need critical mass. But if we have expert service because here, we have further segmentation by industry, by geography. So it is a high level of operating complexity, but it helps us be closer to customers.

對於這種細分，我的意思是，我們需要臨界質量。但如果我們有專家服務，因為在這裡，我們可以按行業、按地域進一步細分。因此，它的營運複雜性很高，但它有助於我們更貼近客戶。

So we have a stronger team now especially in corporate, but also in agribusiness corporate and global corporate as well. So we have a stronger team also in the investment bank, both for variable income and fixed assets.

因此，我們現在擁有一支更強大的團隊，尤其是在企業方面，而且在農業綜合企業和全球企業方面也是如此。因此，我們在投資銀行方面也擁有更強大的團隊，包括負責可變收益和固定資產的團隊。

And in global market, we also have a stronger team. And the result was that we had improved numbers coming from the investment bank because we have much more origination capacity with a stronger team. Our distribution is also stronger and very much connected to wealth management now.

而且在全球市場，我們也擁有更強大的團隊。結果是，來自投資銀行的數據有所提高，因為我們擁有更強大的發起能力和更強大的團隊。我們的分銷管道也更加強大，並且現在與財富管理緊密相關。

We've delivered global solutions, and it's a very interesting solution for cash, for large companies. We have our new energy trading desk in treasury, working with the wholesale bank, and that has led new income streams for us.

我們已經提供了全球解決方案，對於大公司的現金來說，這是一個非常有趣的解決方案。我們在財務部門設立了新的能源交易部門，與批發銀行合作，這為我們帶來了新的收入來源。

That's why I'm always talking about cost and effects. First, you set up the energy trading desk and that begins to generate results and income for the bank. In corporate here, we added 10 platforms. You remember, we launched the agribusiness segment. It is now fully operational this year.

這就是我總是談論成本和效果的原因。首先，您設立能源交易櫃檯，然後開始為銀行創造績效和收入。在公司內部，我們增加了 10 個平台。您記得，我們​​推出了農業綜合企業部門。該設施已於今年全面投入營運。

So the wholesale bank, we are doing our homework, and we are very active generating lots of fees and commissions and business for treasury desks. Now in the retail business, looking at SMEs, we have companies up to BRL50 million a year, between BRL3 million and BRL50 million a year, then small business up to BRL3 million a year and the micro businesses, which is also part of this segment.

因此，對於批發銀行，我們正在做功課，並且非常積極地為財務部門創造大量費用、佣金和業務。現在在零售業務中，看看中小企業，我們有年收入高達 5000 萬雷亞爾的公司，有年收入在 300 萬至 5000 萬雷亞爾之間的公司，然後是年收入高達 300 萬雷亞爾的小型企業和微型企業，這些也是這一細分市場的一部分。

And we have platforms in the main regions of Brazil where we have agricultural activities also to support customers in this segment and individuals as well. Now let us talk a bit more about companies and businesses. So we have a new digital platform with great deliveries in these segments.

我們在巴西主要地區設有平台，進行農業活動，為該領域的客戶和個人提供支援。現在讓我們進一步談論公司和企業。因此，我們擁有一個新的數位平台，可以在這些領域提供出色的交付。

As I mentioned, this is the largest segment in our retail bank. As you know, we've delivered 150 branches in 2024, and we can see a significant growth, a new value proposition for these clients, improving the level of service in these branches.

正如我所提到的，這是我們零售銀行中最大的部分。如您所知，我們在 2024 年已建成 150 家分行，我們可以看到顯著的成長，為這些客戶提供新的價值主張，提高這些分行的服務水準。

Now in terms of small business, we now have a new segmentation. So because here, we have -- I mean, these businesses, they are spread geographically. So we need an account officer to manage these accounts and the micro business or MEI offering digital support and also human support backed by GenAI.

現在就小型企業而言，我們有了新的細分。因為在這裡，我們有——我的意思是，這些業務在地理上分佈廣泛。因此，我們需要一名客戶經理來管理這些帳戶，並為微型企業或 MEI 提供數位支援以及由 GenAI 支援的人力支援。

All of this, we -- I mean, we were -- we had enough traction to deliver all of this because we now have a very different time to market. So we can provide a new experience for clients. They can open accounts using the app. We launched this new service for companies in March and then we expanded in April and in May. So we are now able to provide this new experience to very small businesses.

所有這一切，我們——我的意思是，我們——我們有足夠的動力來實現這一切，因為我們現在有一個非常不同的上市時間。因此我們可以為客戶提供全新的體驗。他們可以使用該應用程式開設帳戶。我們於三月為企業推出了這項新服務，並於四月和五月進一步擴展。因此，我們現在能夠為小型企業提供這種新體驗。

MEI, 90% of the customers have already migrated to the new application and they are active using the app 7 times to 10 times a week. Now in August, we have 50,000 new very small businesses or micro businesses joining the app.

據 MEI 稱，90% 的客戶已經遷移到新的應用程序，並且他們每週活躍使用該應用程式 7 到 10 次。現在到了八月份，我們有 50,000 家新的小型企業或微型企業加入了該應用程式。

So we provide a higher level of services, solutions for collections, payments and loans using Pronampe, Procred government programs, and they can use self-service using the app, but also with human support if needed. And this is the digital transformation. We have a reduced time to market, more functionalities using multidisciplinary squads backed by GenAI, again, focusing on the best customer experience.

因此，我們使用 Pronampe、Procred 政府計劃提供更高級別的服務、收款、付款和貸款解決方案，他們可以使用應用程式進行自助服務，如果需要也可以獲得人工支援。這就是數位轉型。我們縮短了產品上市時間，利用由 GenAI 支援的多學科小組實現了更多功能，並再次專注於最佳客戶體驗。

And the integration, I mean, I spoke about our app. It has been delivered for Android. We now have a new version for iOS launched now in August. We are one of the very few organizations that have the app for both systems for Android and iOS. And we are using APIs to have a full integration.

至於集成，我的意思是，我談到了我們的應用程式。它已在 Android 上發布。我們現在已經在 8 月推出了適用於 iOS 的新版本。我們是極少數同時擁有 Android 和 iOS 系統應用程式的組織之一。我們正在使用 API 來實現全面整合。

So we are ready for banking as a service. We even have the integration with PIX, agility and corporate account openings and Cielo integration. Cielo had a great first quarter. But looking at our customer base with Cielo, we've gained share in the first quarter because of all these things we've implemented and the integration by APIs. So this is the information I have.

因此，我們已經為銀行即服務做好了準備。我們甚至與 PIX、敏捷性和企業帳戶開立以及 Cielo 整合。Cielo 在第一季表現出色。但看看我們與 Cielo 的客戶群，由於我們實施的所有這些措施以及透過 API 的集成，我們在第一季度獲得了份額。這就是我所掌握的資訊。

Now we come to the conclusion. This is a summary of my presentation. As I said earlier on, we can see -- I mean, our team can see that we have been able to deliver consistent operating results, a very consistent balance sheet, growing more than our net income. The operating result is growing above 30% year over year. And we feel very certain our delinquency is under control.

現在我們得出結論。這是我的演講的總結。正如我之前所說，我們可以看到——我的意思是，我們的團隊可以看到我們已經能夠提供一致的經營業績，非常一致的資產負債表，成長超過我們的淨收入。營業利潤較去年同期成長30%以上。我們非常確信我們的犯罪行為已經受到控制。

We can answer questions if you would like to have more information about that, but we believe delinquency will continue under control so that we can continue to grow. We know the market will grow slower. So we have to make the most of all opportunities we have, knowing that the bank is -- has a lot of traction in running the bank, changing the bank in all the segments of customers. So this is the information I prepared for you. Thank you very much for joining us.

如果您想了解更多信息，我們可以回答您的問題，但我們相信違法行為將繼續得到控制，以便我們可以繼續發展。我們知道市場成長將會放緩。因此，我們必須充分利用我們擁有的所有機會，因為我們知道銀行在經營銀行、改變銀行所有客戶群方面具有很大的吸引力。這就是我為您準備的訊息。非常感謝您加入我們。

And let me now sit here with Andre Carvalho, our Investor Relations Officer and Scarpelli.

現在，請允許我與我們的投資者關係官 Andre Carvalho 和 Scarpelli 坐在一起。

(interpreted) Thank you, Marcelo and Cassiano. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to let you know that Ivan Gontijo, CEO of the Insurance Group is joining us from offline. Questions can be sent in Portuguese or English. You can send your questions via email to investidores@bradesco.com.br using a WhatsApp channel 11 97443-8238 or just scanning the QR code that is on your screen.

（翻譯）謝謝你，馬塞洛和卡西亞諾。大家早安。我想告訴大家，保險集團執行長 Ivan Gontijo 將線下加入我們。問題可以用葡萄牙語或英語發送。您可以使用 WhatsApp 頻道 11 97443-8238 或掃描螢幕上的二維碼，透過電子郵件將您的問題發送至 investidores@bradesco.com.br。

First question from Thiago Batista.

第一個問題來自蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。

(interpreted) Hi everyone. Good morning, Andre, (inaudible) Cassiano and Ivan Congratulations on the results. I think you have strong points in the top line. That is a positive highlight. My question is regarding the positioning of the bank regarding low income segment or mass market. When we look at that sector, it is perhaps the only one operating well below the cost of capital of the bank.

（譯）大家好。早安，安德烈，（聽不清楚）卡西亞諾和伊凡祝賀你們取得的成績。我認為你在頂級領域有優勢。這是一個積極的亮點。我的問題是關於銀行對低收入群體或大眾市場的定位。當我們觀察該行業時，它可能是唯一一個營運成本遠低於銀行資本成本的行業。

Looking at the midterm, do you think that this segment will be able to be profitable even if it's served by the branches you need to implement a more structural change to provide more digital service? And how digital next will be positioned? How will they be used in this segment?

從中期來看，您是否認為即使由分支機構提供服務，該部門也能夠盈利，您需要實施更具結構性的變革來提供更多的數位服務嗎？數位化下一步將如何定位？它們將如何在這一領域得到應用？

(interpreted) Thank you for joining us for the question. And the answer is yes. This is what we believe in, and we have working -- have been working strongly in the mass market with the transformation of the bank. And I mean digital mass market. We have some million clients being served remotely and having different experiences with high personalization.

（翻譯）感謝您參加我們的提問。答案是肯定的。這就是我們的信念，我們一直在努力——在銀行轉型過程中一直在大眾市場大力工作。我指的是數位大眾市場。我們擁有數百萬客戶，他們透過遠端方式享受不同的、高度個人化的體驗。

And eventually, we will be talking more about that. Net should be close to this digital that was a completely separate operation. Well, not yet. They continue on their own track, and we'll speak about that strategy when the time comes. But yes, that segment can be profitable.

最終，我們將會更多地談論這一點。網路應該接近這個完全獨立的數位操作。嗯，還沒有。他們繼續走自己的路，到時候我們會談論這個策略。但確實，這個部分可以獲利。

A super important channel for these clients for service and for client acquisition is called Bradesco Expresso. As I mentioned in the past, we have been trying different models, models of service. Remember that we only have variable costs. We have about 39,000 banking correspondents across Brazil. And we had a relationship platform, B2B2C.

對於這些客戶提供服務和獲取客戶的極為重要的管道是 Bradesco Expresso。正如我過去所提到的，我們一直在嘗試不同的模式、服務模式。請記住，我們只有變動成本。我們在巴西各地擁有約 39,000 名銀行代理。我們有一個關係平台，B2B2C。

Now we have a B2C. And now we have -- we offer a much better experience connected to CRM and the intelligence behind the offering for the clients offered by the banking correspondents. And all the transactions are done with the merchants and with a very high penetration in our acquiring business so that these merchants can offer clients alternatives services and products. So this is a strategic important channel.

現在我們有了B2C。現在，我們透過銀行代理為客戶提供了與 CRM 相關的更好的體驗和產品背後的智慧。所有交易都是與商家進行的，而且我們的收單業務滲透率非常高，因此這些商家可以為客戶提供替代服務和產品。所以這是一個具有重要戰略意義的管道。

And in due time, we will give you detailed information of everything we are doing on that channel. But we are convinced that we are accelerating and that we will get to very different levels with us combinations reviewing the footprint, reducing some points of service, growing in principal, growing in corporate, growing in SMEs, growing in businesses and in banking correspondence as well.

並且我們會及時向您提供我們在該頻道上所做的一切的詳細資訊。但我們確信，我們正在加速發展，透過審查足跡、減少一些服務點、增加本金、增加企業、增加中小企業、增加企業和銀行通信，我們將達到非常不同的水平。

And it is this balance that we will be showing you in due time, Thiago. But we are very excited with everything that we're doing at the bank.

蒂亞戈，我們會在適當的時候向你展示這種平衡。但我們對銀行所做的一切都感到非常興奮。

(interpreted) Daniel Vaz, Safra.

（翻譯）丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉。

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre. Good morning, everyone. Marcelo, Cassiano congrats on the results. I'd like to explore two points about your presentation, Marcelo. You mentioned signs of the slowdown in economic activity and demand. And looking at the business segment, there's a new segmentation. So exploring this segment, SMEs making up to BRL3 million in revenue per year.

（翻譯）謝謝你，安德烈。大家早安。馬塞洛、卡西亞諾對取得的成績表示祝賀。馬塞洛，我想探討您演講中的兩點。您提到了經濟活動和需求放緩的跡象。從業務細分來看，出現了新的細分。因此，探索這一領域，中小企業每年的收入高達 300 萬巴西雷亞爾。

Could you elaborate on the slowdown of economic activity in this segment? It would be reasonable to think that these SMEs would be the first impacted by this economic slowdown. And I'd like to understand the opportunities you're seeing in this segment to understand this new segmentation. What will be the position of Cielo because we have seen some campaigns geared to this segment by Cielo. So I'd like to hear about Cielo's risk and opportunities.

能詳細說明一下該領域經濟活動放緩的原因嗎？我們有理由相信，這些中小企業將首當其沖地受到經濟放緩的影響。我想了解您在這一領域看到的機會，以了解這個新的細分市場。Cielo 的定位是什麼？我們已經看到 Cielo 針對這個細分市場進行了一些活動。所以我想聽聽 Cielo 的風險和機會。

(interpreted) Thank you for the kind words, and thank you for joining us. Here's what I can tell you in this segment up to [3 million barrel a year]. And you know about the level of mortality and risk of these companies across Brazil.

（翻譯）感謝您的友善言辭，也感謝您加入我們。以下是我在這一部分可以告訴你們的[每年300萬桶]。而且您知道巴西各地這些公司的死亡率和風險程度。

We have another segment that we call MEI, the micro enterprises. And there are a large number of companies spread all over Brazil that have been in the market for many, many years, and they are really small.

我們還有另一個細分市場，我們稱之為 MEI，即微型企業。巴西各地有大量的公司，它們已經在市場上存在很多年了，而且規模都很小。

And they present a slightly lower risk, but we see an opportunity to manage these clients because they bring us interesting profitability. They still require contact and service by a human. They use a lot of the digital channels. We talked about the app that we delivered. But what have we been doing?

它們的風險略低，但我們看到了管理這些客戶的機會，因為它們為我們帶來了可觀的獲利能力。它們仍然需要人類的接觸和服務。他們使用了很多數位管道。我們討論了我們交付的應用程式。但我們一直在做什麼？

I mean this does not apply only to small business. This applies to individuals, legal entities of different sizes in the middle market. The work that we are doing with the credit BU to which we implemented many new models and also portfolio management permanently monitoring and kind of with an early identification of possible losses in some sectors, in some companies, in some ratings.

我的意思是這不僅適用於小型企業。這適用於中端市場中不同規模的個人、法人實體。我們與信貸業務部門合作的工作包括實施許多新模型以及投資組合管理，持續監控並及早發現某些行業、某些公司、某些評級中可能出現的損失。

So all of this gives us a different complexity level in our modeling. We have credit policies adjusted by the modeling periodically and all the time. And so we have this ability to execute that we didn't use to have. And all this credit monitoring with solar signs automated by machine learning models. It's all connected to the segment, and we've been doing this very successfully.

因此，所有這些都為我們的建模帶來了不同的複雜程度。我們根據模型定期、持續地調整信貸政策。因此，我們擁有了以前沒有的執行能力。所有這些信用監控都透過機器學習模型自動化。這一切都與細分市場有關，而且我們在這方面做得非常成功。

So we have the enterprise segment, and this is happening in the business segment. And also, we are choosing the modalities in which we want to operate. We are operating with a mode of secured loans, programs by the government, FGO, FGI of government programs in this half year produced almost the volume that we originated throughout last year for companies.

因此，我們有企業部門，而這正在商業部門發生。而且，我們正在選擇我們想要的營運方式。我們採用擔保貸款模式，政府專案、FGO、FGI 等政府專案今年上半年為企業發放的貸款額幾乎與去年全年持平。

And that's positive for the companies because they have long-term credit with lower spreads, more time to pay. But we have to have the right and well-oiled models so that we can accept the range of losses here the spread is lower, but risk-adjusted return is different.

這對公司來說是有利的，因為他們擁有長期信貸，利差較低，還款時間更長。但我們必須擁有正確且運作良好的模型，以便我們能夠接受損失範圍，這裡的利差較低，但風險調整後的回報是不同的。

So we're operating with government programs with highly liquid receivables such as card receivables and other receivables wholesale. So we have been prioritizing those modalities that bring us lower margin, but that bring us long-term relationship and service for these companies.

因此，我們正在與政府專案合作，這些項目具有高度流動性的應收帳款，例如信用卡應收帳款和其他批發應收帳款。因此，我們一直優先考慮那些能為我們帶來較低利潤，但能為這些公司帶來長期關係和服務的方式。

So we are seeing core opportunities for growth. We believe that in any economy that will grow in the future, we'll have small businesses growing more than other segments as usual. So we have a 15% interest rate in Brazil. But we are looking at a time horizon of 2028, '29, and 2030. And we're going to have these small businesses having a greater share in the financial business.

因此，我們看到了核心的成長機會。我們相信，在未來任何一個成長的經濟體中，小型企業的成長速度都會比其他領域更快。因此巴西的利率為 15%。但我們著眼於 2028 年、2029 年和 2030 年的時間範圍。我們將讓這些小企業在金融業務中佔據更大的份額。

And to answer the last part of your question about Cielo, we created a connection via APIs targeted services. We have been increasing the penetration rate and our share mainly in the last few quarters when we delivered in-house solutions and solutions via Cielo.

為了回答您關於 Cielo 問題的最後一部分，我們透過 API 目標服務建立了連線。在過去幾個季度中，我們透過內部解決方案和 Cielo 提供解決方案，從而不斷提高滲透率和市場份額。

So we see us growing with good combinations and offering better and better services to our clients, micro enterprises, businesses, enterprises, middle market, corporate up to BRL300 million and also for large corporates.

因此，我們看到我們透過良好的組合不斷發展，並為我們的客戶、微型企業、企業、中型市場、高達 3 億雷亞爾的企業以及大型企業提供越來越好的服務。

Thank you, Daniel.

謝謝你，丹尼爾。

(interpreted) One final point Daniel. Very candidly, and I'm speaking about this now, and I spoke about this in the press conference. We are very confident about the quality of our loan book. We are not taking risks here. Andre and his whole team have a clear guidance regarding our risk appetite. My colleagues heading each segment are very well aware, and we are very confident about 2025 in terms of our loan book in all segments, individuals and legal entities.

（譯）最後一點，丹尼爾。非常坦白說，我現在正在談論這個問題，我在新聞發布會上也談論過這個問題。我們對我們的貸款品質非常有信心。我們不會在這裡冒險。安德烈和他的整個團隊對我們的風險偏好有明確的指導。負責各部門的同事都非常清楚這一點，我們對 2025 年各部門（包括個人和法人實體）的貸款情況充滿信心。

(interpreted) Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

（口譯）Pedro Leduc，Itau BBA。

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. Congratulations on the deliveries. You're making solid steps when you speak about step by step. Now two brief questions. One, as I look at operating expenses, two-thirds of the increase came from the line named other. When you look at administrative and that cost, that is under control.

（翻譯）大家早安。恭喜貨物順利交付。當你說到一步一步時，你就是在踏出堅實的步伐。現在有兩個簡短的問題。首先，當我查看營運費用時，三分之二的成長來自其他項目。當你考慮行政管理和成本時，你會發現一切都在控制之中。

But when you look at the line other, then you see the increase. So have there been adjustments and when you look at personnel and administrative, you already have a higher level of efficiency. So next year, other will also be under control. I mean it drew my attention that this line item other has all the expense increase. So this was my first question.

但當你看其他線條時，你會看到增加。那麼，是否已經進行了調整呢？從人事和行政方面來看，效率已經提高了很多。所以明年其他的也會受到控制。我的意思是，它引起了我的注意，這個項目的其他所有費用都在增加。這是我的第一個問題。

The second question, we've seen you reviewed a few indicators in the guidance, services and insurance. But when we look at the NII net of provisions, if we compare that to the midpoint of the guidance, it seems like the loan loss provision will remain the same in the second half of the year. Is that right? Or I mean, you did not change the guidance because the high range is already including some growth -- so I'd like to hear more on why you kept this guidance equal.

第二個問題，我們看到您審查了指導、服務和保險中的幾個指標。但是，當我們查看扣除撥備後的 NII 淨額時，如果將其與指導的中點進行比較，似乎貸款損失撥備在下半年將保持不變。是嗎？或者我的意思是，您沒有改變指導，因為高範圍已經包含了一些增長 - 所以我想聽聽您為什麼保持這個指導不變。

(interpreted) Well, thank you. Thank you for participating. It's a pleasure to see you. I think that maybe Andre could begin. Cassiano?

（翻譯）好的，謝謝你。感謝您的參與。很高興見到你。我認為安德烈也許可以開始。卡西亞諾？

(interpreted) All right. Yes, well, it already includes the loan loss provision. We had a large number now compared to what we want to have in the future. And also, you have gains from the reductions we made. When you look at personnel and administrative, yes, we already had the adjustment.

（翻譯）好的。是的，它已經包括了貸款損失準備金。與我們未來想要擁有的數量相比，我們現在擁有的數量已經很大了。而且，你們也從我們的減排中獲益。當你審視人事和行政時，是的，我們已經做出了調整。

So I believe we have an interconnection there. But yes, this line item other is helping us accommodate to make the changes we have in the change the bank initiative. But -- and then when you look at personnel and administrative, it has already been optimized.

所以我相信我們之間存在著互聯互通。但是的，這一項正在幫助我們適應銀行變革計畫中的變革。但是——當你查看人員和行政時，它已經得到了最佳化。

Andre?

安德烈？

(interpreted) Yes. Let me add that operating expense, as Marcelo said, grew 5.8% in the second quarter of 2025 compared to last year. And the inflation was 5.4% in the same period. So even considering what Cassiano mentioned, operating expenses grew at the same pace as inflation with all the investments we've made in the transformation of the bank. And that shows that cost is under control.

（翻譯）是的。我要補充一點，正如馬塞洛所說，2025 年第二季的營運費用與去年相比增加了 5.8%。同期通貨膨脹率為5.4%。因此，即使考慮到卡西亞諾所提到的情況，隨著我們在銀行轉型方面所做的所有投資，營運費用也與通貨膨脹保持相同的成長速度。這表明成本得到了控制。

And even we are preparing for a slower growth in the second half of the year. Now we can see a growth in the OpEx. And as we already have some of that in the numbers of the last quarter last year, I believe that now the line item other will be adjusted.

我們甚至還在為下半年成長放緩做準備。現在我們可以看到營運支出的成長。由於我們在去年最後一個季度的數據中已經掌握了其中的一些內容，我相信現在其他項目將會進行調整。

Yeah, about the guidance, yes, the NII guidance remained the same. Our NII net of provisions will be BRL39 billion, which is the midpoint of our guidance between BRL37 million and BRL41 million.

是的，關於指導，是的，NII 指導保持不變。我們的 NII 撥備淨額將達到 390 億雷亞爾，這是我們指導金額的中間值，介於 3,700 萬雷亞爾和 4,100 萬雷亞爾之間。

So our guidance, as Marcelo mentioned, we are at the top range of the guidance. So our NII net of provisions can still grow in the second half of the year compared to the first half of the year, but always cautiously because we are building our portfolio with full collaterals. But every half year, we have seen a growth.

因此，正如馬塞洛所提到的，我們的指導處於指導的最高範圍。因此，與上半年相比，我們的 NII 撥備淨額在下半年仍可能成長，但我們始終保持謹慎，因為我們正在用全額抵押品建立我們的投資組合。但每半年，我們都會看到成長。

(interpreted) Let me add to what my colleague said. When we look at all the expenses, personnel, administrative and other expenses under our control because under our management. All of this has been approved, obviously, but we are growing 5.8% in operating expenses, even with all the investments made in consulting, in technology, and we are growing in some important areas of the bank, for example, technology, data scientists, data engineers, developers. We have a bigger team now.

（翻譯）讓我補充一下我同事所說的話。當我們查看所有費用、人員、行政和其他費用時，它們都在我們的控制之下，因為在我們的管理之下。顯然，所有這些都已獲得批准，但即使在諮詢和技術方面進行了大量投資，我們的營運費用仍增加了 5.8%，而且我們在銀行的一些重要領域也在成長，例如技術、資料科學家、資料工程師、開發人員。我們現在擁有更大的團隊。

And in time, we see that it will trend towards a normalized curve. But in relation to the NII guidance, I mean, this is our target, but always net of provisions. And that is perhaps more important than the net income margin, which could be a bit higher or lower.

隨著時間的推移，我們會發現它將趨向於正常化曲線。但就 NII 指導而言，我的意思是，這是我們的目標，但始終是扣除撥備後的淨額。這也許比淨收入利潤率更重要，淨收入利潤率可能會高一點或低一點。

But I mean, what is really important is the number we see at the bottom line. And that is the number we look at with a lot of discipline and risk-adjusted return. So we will not stop doing business.

但我的意思是，真正重要的是我們看到的底線數字。這是我們以嚴格的紀律和風險調整回報來看待的數字。所以我們不會停止做生意。

I mean I hope I will be favorably surprised because I want to do more. And when I say I want to do more, I speak on behalf of my team. We want to do more, but always looking at risk and our current risk appetite that we've imposed to ourselves because we want to grow, but we want to grow perennially, reaching a higher level of both profitability and return.

我的意思是我希望我會感到驚喜，因為我想做更多。當我說我想做更多的時候，我代表我的團隊發言。我們想要做得更多，但始終關注風險和我們強加給自己的當前風險偏好，因為我們想要成長，但我們希望長期成長，達到更高的獲利能力和回報水平。

(interpreted) Thank you, Pedro, for the question. Gustavo Schroden, Citibank.

（翻譯）佩德羅，謝謝你的提問。花旗銀行的古斯塔沃‧施羅登 (Gustavo Schroden)。

(interpreted) Thank you. Andre. Good morning, Marcelo, Cassiano. I will agree with my colleagues and give you congratulations on the earnings. We see the bank is back on credit in terms of revenue and the loan book. I'd like to go back to Leduc's question on expenses. We can see, I mean, on the one hand, we see a reduction and adjustment in the bank's footprint initiative to prepare for the future.

（翻譯）謝謝。安德烈。早安，馬塞洛，卡西亞諾。我同意同事們的意見，並對你們的獲利表示祝賀。我們看到，該銀行的收入和貸款額已恢復正常。我想回到 Leduc 關於費用的問題。我們可以看到，一方面，我們看到銀行的足跡措施有所減少和調整，為未來做好準備。

But still, I mean, it still has not translated into numbers, so to say. I mean you still have high numbers. I mean, so do we believe we can continue to improve efficiency? Or are we going to see a slower efficiency improvement? Is that going to happen this year or next year? Because I think this is important for us to calculate the ROI.

但我的意思是，它仍然沒有轉化為數字，可以這麼說。我的意思是你的數字仍然很高。我的意思是，我們是否相信我們可以繼續提高效率？還是我們會看到效率提升速度放緩？這會在今年或明年發生嗎？因為我認為這對我們計算投資報酬率很重要。

I mean, because when we look at revenue, it seems to me that everything is on track. Next, looking at trading and market NII, the soft guidance was BRL0.8 billion, and it's already at BRL700 million. So can we exceed BRL1 billion because we already have two quarters ahead of us this year.

我的意思是，因為當我們查看收入時，在我看來一切都在正軌上。接下來，看看交易和市場 NII，軟指引為 8 億雷亞爾，目前已經達到 7 億雷亞爾。那我們能否超過 10 億巴西雷亞爾呢，因為今年我們已經有兩個季度了。

(interpreted) Thank you, Gustavo. You have a nice background behind you, great. Cassiano, would you like to answer the question?

（翻譯）謝謝你，古斯塔沃。你有一個良好的背景，很棒。卡西亞諾，你願意回答這個問題嗎？

(interpreted) Yeah. Let me begin talking about treasury. I think it's really important. Our guidance was from BRL0 to BRL1 billion. Today, we believe the soft guidance would be BRL700 million and BRL1 billion. We don't expect a drop in the second two quarters of the year.

（翻譯）是的。讓我先談談財政問題。我認為這真的很重要。我們的指導價是 00 億至 10 億巴西雷亞爾。今天，我們認為軟指導將達到 7 億雷亞爾和 10 億雷亞爾。我們預計今年後兩個季度不會出現下降。

But this is a mix, as Marcelo said. It is our asset and liability management, our trading desk. And -- but there's also a lot of work that we do on ALM, which is part of our structure. It's not something we do isolatedly as setting up a trading desk. So I mean, we're working between BRL700 million and BRL1 billion. This would be a reasonable number until the end of the year.

但正如馬塞洛所說，這是一種混合。這是我們的資產和負債管理，我們的交易櫃檯。而且 — — 但我們在 ALM 上也做了很多工作，它是我們結構的一部分。這不是我們孤立地設立交易櫃檯所做的事情。所以我的意思是，我們的工作額在 7 億到 10 億巴西雷亞爾之間。到今年年底為止，這將是一個合理的數字。

The next two quarters will be more challenging, but we have a good strategy. Now from the viewpoint of [ALM]. I mean, we said that we would have 52% already in 2025, so that we'll have more improvement as of 2026. So that still applies.

接下來的兩個季度將更具挑戰性，但我們有一個很好的策略。現在從[ALM]。我的意思是，我們說過到 2025 年我們將達到 52%，因此到 2026 年我們將取得更多進步。所以這仍然適用。

But we've had an improvement of 3 percentage points already this year with very rigorous cost control. [5.8] expense -- operating expense growth is not a trivial number, especially if you consider the investments we are making in the change the bank initiative.

但透過非常嚴格的成本控制，我們今年已經實現了 3 個百分點的改善。 [5.8] 費用－營運費用成長並不是一個小數字，特別是如果考慮到我們在改變銀行計畫方面所做的投資。

5.8%, I mean, and if you look at administrative and personnel, 4.9%, so I think these are important numbers because we are executing according to the plan, even better, 3 percentage points better. We believe we will keep that guidance, but maybe in 2026, we'll have better results as well as in 2027, then we'll see more efficiency gains.

5.8%，我的意思是，如果你看看行政和人事方面，是4.9%，所以我認為這些是重要的數字，因為我們正在按照計劃執行，甚至更好，好3個百分點。我們相信我們會保持這項指導，但也許在 2026 年，我們會取得更好的結果，在 2027 年，我們將看到更多的效率提升。

(interpreted) It's good to see you, Gustavo. Let me also add, Cassiano. Gustavo, thanks for the questions. The EIO is not a paradigm. We -- the efficiency ratio is not a paradigm. But we told you that we have a target in the long run.

（翻譯）很高興見到你，古斯塔沃。我還要補充一點，卡西亞諾。古斯塔沃，謝謝你的提問。EIO 不是一個範例。我們——效率比率不是一個範例。但我們告訴過你，我們有一個長遠目標。

However, this -- I mean, the efficiency ratio is not a paradigm for us. If we believe that we need more expense to gain competitiveness, then we will do that because the key word for us here is competitiveness in the short run and also in the long run.

然而，這個——我的意思是，效率比率對我們來說不是一個範例。如果我們認為需要更多的開支來獲得競爭力，那麼我們就會這樣做，因為對我們來說，這裡的關鍵字是短期和長期的競爭力。

So if we can gain competitiveness, then we will do it. Remember, when we disclosed the guidance by year-end in 2024, if you said it was conservative, but we said, look, we will not stop any investment initiatives. We will continue the bank transformation in agriculture, in corporate platforms and in all of the initiatives.

因此，如果我們能夠獲得競爭力，那麼我們就會這樣做。請記住，當我們在 2024 年底披露指引時，如果您說這是保守的，但我們說，看，我們不會停止任何投資計劃。我們將繼續在農業、企業平台和所有措施方面進行銀行轉型。

We continue to invest in technology and growing the team. So of course, that adds to our expenses, and we are talking about this. It also generates pressure in terms of labor, but we are on the right track and executing our plan. The plan is a straight line. I mean you make adjustments, but we follow a straight line.

我們將繼續投資技術並壯大團隊。當然，這會增加我們的開支，我們正在討論這個問題。這也帶來了勞動力方面的壓力，但我們正走在正確的軌道上並執行我們的計劃。該計劃是一條直線。我的意思是你做出調整，但我們遵循直線。

And we are following all the steps in our plan with great deliveries according to our expectations. And Cassiano mentioned that we have a more favorable expectation looking at our origination in the wholesale bank, in the treasury deals and in all other teams, the energy trading desk, I mean, we see great opportunities to do more business.

我們正在按照計劃的所有步驟順利完成交付，滿足我們的預期。卡西亞諾提到，我們對批發銀行、國債交易以及所有其他團隊、能源交易部門的起源抱持著更樂觀的預期，我的意思是，我們看到了開展更多業務的巨大機會。

And let me tell you, I mean, sometimes you may ask, is that nonrecurring net income? I mean, we don't originating. We continue to originate. You close the deal with the customer and then you're thinking about the next, right? That's recurring net income. And this is what we mean when we say step by step. Thank you, Gustavo.

讓我告訴你，我的意思是，有時你可能會問，那是非經常性淨收入嗎？我的意思是，我們不是原創者。我們繼續創新。您與客戶達成交易後就開始考慮下一步了，對嗎？這是經常性淨收入。這就是我們所說的一步一步的意思。謝謝你，古斯塔沃。

(interpreted) Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

（翻譯）美國銀行馬裡奧·皮埃里。

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. Again, on my side, congratulations on the results. I'd like to focus on growth that you're talking about you expect a slowdown of the portfolio with the portfolio growing close to 12% and in your guidance, 6% to 8%. I'd like to understand in what line items do you see this kind of slowdown? And why are you so comfortable in terms of delinquency? Nora, you said over and over that you're comfortable that you're not seeing a worsened delinquency.

（翻譯）大家早安。再次，就我而言，對所取得的成果表示祝賀。我想重點談談您談到的成長，您預計投資組合的成長速度將放緩，目前投資組合的成長速度接近 12%，而您的預測為 6% 至 8%。我想了解您在哪些項目中看到了這種放緩？為什麼你對犯罪行為如此坦然？諾拉，你一再說過，你對沒有看到犯罪率惡化感到欣慰。

Well, the economy is slowing down, you're becoming more cautious, but at the same time, you're keeping provisions and delinquency under control. What metrics concern you when you look at the economy? And what metrics do you see that give you comfort that delinquency will remain under control?

嗯，經濟正在放緩，你變得更加謹慎，但同時，你正在控制撥備和拖欠行為。當您觀察經濟時，您關注哪些指標？您認為哪些指標可以讓您確信犯罪行為仍將受到控制？

(interpreted) Thank you, Mario. For starters, there is a second variable here, which is the baseline of the last quarter. It is higher. So variation or relative variation can be lower. In addition, we have a lower demand for credit in the market.

（翻譯）謝謝你，馬裡奧。首先，這裡還有第二個變量，即上一季的基線。它更高。因此變化或相對變化可以較低。此外，市場對信貸的需求較低。

This is what we observed in the recent data published by the Brazilian Central Bank. It is only natural. With a high real interest rate and a 15% Selic rate, it is only natural that there will be a lower demand for credit. What makes me comfortable though is what I said during the presentation of our earnings.

這是我們在巴西央行最近公佈的數據中觀察到的。這是很自然的。在實際利率較高且 Selic 利率為 15% 的情況下，信貸需求下降是自然的。不過，讓我感到安心的是我在我們的收益報告中所說的話。

First, metrics, vintage by vintage, line by line, product by product, modality by modality, with the right pricing, risk-adjusted return, adjustment of the models and dynamic policies and the choice of those segments that present lower spreads, NII but a much higher risk-adjusted return, which is the case of FGO, FGI programs and other secured lines such as payroll deductible loans.

首先，逐個年份、逐條線、逐個產品、逐個模式地制定指標，採用正確的定價、風險調整後的回報、模型和動態政策的調整，並選擇那些呈現較低利差、NII 但風險調整後的回報更高的部分，這就是 FGO、FGI 計劃和其他擔保線路（如工資扣除貸款）的情況。

So let me give you one example, one piece of data. If you look at our payroll deductible loans portfolio, you will see that we grew by 4% quarter on quarter, slightly above 5% year on year. But please note what happened in payroll loans. The banks have agreements with the companies. And there was a change in the private payroll loan via CTPS.

那麼讓我給你舉一個例子、一條數據。如果您查看我們的工資扣除貸款組合，您會發現我們季度環比增長了 4%，同比增長略高於 5%。但請注意薪資貸款中發生的情況。銀行與這些公司有協議。透過 CTPS 發放的私人薪資貸款發生了變化。

However, we prepared for that. There are some people operating at much higher volumes. But we kind of had a reduction. We did not operate with that change because we had two payments here. The first was in May, the second one in June of the amount of the companies.

然而，我們已經做好準備了。有些人的操作量要大得多。但我們確實有所減少。我們沒有採用這種變化，因為我們這裡有兩筆付款。第一次是5月份，第二次是6月份，涉及公司數量也發生了變化。

And secondly, Febraban published a delinquency rate observed by the market was higher than 16%. So we prefer to be down towards because the bookkeeping was not very robust. So when the payments were made, we had a lot of problems of reconciliating the numbers.

其次，巴西央行公佈的市場拖欠率高於 16%。因此，我們更願意降低價格，因為簿記不是很健全。因此，當付款時，我們遇到了許多核對數字的問題。

In our case, with small amounts. And we preferred not to run risks. In our case, it was above 5%. And these cases have been practically solved. And why? Because we operated with a restrictive policy. We only wanted to operate initially with the companies that we knew that had agreements with us. And we only operated with employees who had been with the companies for at least one year, so restrictive policy.

就我們的情況而言，金額很小。我們不願意冒險。在我們的案例中，這一比例超過了 5%。這些案件目前都已基本解決。為什麼？因為我們採取的是限制性政策。我們最初只想與那些我們知道與我們簽訂了協議的公司合作。而且我們只與在公司工作至少一年的員工合作，因此政策有限制性。

Now that we're gaining confidence in the process, the trend in Bradesco is that we'll gain share because we have a lower market share, but with a much safer credit because I have to grant credit looking at large companies and their employees. It's a certain risk. But looking at a small company for an employee who has been with the company for a little time, it's a different risk profile.

現在，我們對這個流程越來越有信心，Bradesco 的趨勢是，我們將獲得份額，因為我們的市場份額較低，但信貸更加安全，因為我必須根據大公司及其員工的情況授予信貸。這是有一定風險的。但對於在小公司工作時間不長的員工來說，風險狀況就有所不同。

And that's why we are leaders among the private banks. We have significant high deductible loan, which decelerated in the last quarter because of biometrics, but this is expected to resume growth. So the metrics are risk adjusted return, monitoring vintage by vintage, choosing those segments with lower risk, but the demand tends to be lower and the baseline is different.

這就是我們成為私人銀行領導者的原因。我們有大量高額免賠額貸款，由於生物辨識技術的影響，上個季度貸款額有所下降，但預計會恢復成長。因此，衡量標準是風險調整後的回報，逐年監控，選擇風險較低的部分，但需求往往較低，基線也不同。

So again, we are stacking these loans, FGO, FGI, more long-term payroll deductible loans and the secured loans that we trust more.

因此，我們再次將這些貸款、FGO、FGI、更多長期工資扣除貸款以及我們更信任的擔保貸款堆積起來。

Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的豪爾赫·庫裡。

Thank you. Congrats on the numbers. I wanted to ask about net interest margin. Your margins were close to around 5% in the past. They're at a little bit below 4%. And that seems to be what's dragging your ROE down.

謝謝。恭喜你取得這些成績。我想問一下淨利差。你們過去的利潤率接近5%左右。略低於 4%。這似乎就是導致你的 ROE 下降的原因。

Like you've done a relatively good job on the expense side. However, your efficiency ratio continues to be quite high because of that margin pressure that you've seen over time. So how do you think about the path for normalizing net interest margins to levels closer to 5%, so that your ROE can really tick up to the high teens? And to what extent it's your balance sheet sensitivity to rates. So if rates are 12%, 11%, 12, 24 months from today, how does that help your margin or not?

就像你在費用方面做得相對較好一樣。然而，由於您長期以來看到的利潤壓力，您的效率比率仍然相當高。那麼，您認為如何將淨利差正常化至接近 5% 的水平，從而使您的 ROE 真正上升到十幾個百分點？以及您的資產負債表對利率的敏感度有多大。那麼，如果從今天起 12 個月、24 個月的利率分別為 12%、11%，這對您的利潤有何幫助？

How does continuing to grow, particularly on the lower income segment where you can generate higher spreads contributes to that. So walk us through your -- I would say, your next 24 months of net interest margins, what are the puts and takes? And where should that normalize? Thank you.

持續成長，特別是在可以產生更高利差的低收入群體中，如何實現這一目標？那麼請向我們介紹一下您的——我想說，您未來 24 個月的淨利差、看跌期權和看漲期權是多少？那麼這應該在哪裡正常化呢？謝謝。

(interpreted) Thanks, Kuri. I'll start answering that. The expectation for NIM is that it will grow safely. Here at Bradesco, we focus on risk-adjusted return of our operations. If we find a good opportunity with low spread and very high RAR, we do grant the loan and we expand our portfolio. NIM is the consequence.

（翻譯）謝謝，Kuri。我將開始回答這個問題。對 NIM 的期望是它將安全成長。在 Bradesco，我們專注於營運的風險調整回報。如果我們發現一個利差低、風險承受能力高的好機會，我們就會發放貸款並擴大我們的投資組合。NIM 就是結果。

RAR is the objective. Our NIM is growing because we are finding good opportunities in those lines with a slightly higher spread but with adequate RAR. That's the first point. Second point is because we are pricing the macro risk that we see coming with a decelerating economy. So there's a macro moment favorable for banking spreads, central bank data reflect that.

RAR 是目標。我們的 NIM 正在成長，因為我們在利差略高但 RAR 充足的線路中找到了良好的機會。這是第一點。第二點是，我們正在為經濟減速帶來的宏觀風險進行定價。因此，宏觀因素有利於銀行利差，央行數據反映了這一點。

And this is reflected in our NIM and in that of the other banks, it is not by coincidence that other banks are also posting increasing NIM's. In our NIM, it was 8.8%. It was 8.4% in December. And the trend is that this will gradually get close to 9% by year-end. But we don't have an explicit target for that, but it is through a trend that we are observing in our analysis.

這反映在我們的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 和其他銀行的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 中，其他銀行的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 也在增加，這並非巧合。在我們的淨利息收益率 (NIM) 中，這一比例為 8.8%。12月份為8.4%。且趨勢是到年底這一比例將逐漸接近9%。但我們沒有明確的目標，而是透過我們在分析中觀察到的趨勢。

It seems to be a trend of recovery. And then you asked about the sensitivity of our earnings to the interest rates. And here, I'm going to focus on two aspects. Market NII. Cassiano mentioned that our market NII increased from BRL2.2 billion last year to between [BRL700 million and BRL1 billion] this year. So higher interest rates do have a negative impact on our ALM.

看起來有復甦的趨勢。然後您詢問我們的收益對利率的敏感度。這裡，我想重點談兩個方面。市場 NII。卡西亞諾提到，我們的市場 NII 從去年的 22 億巴西雷亞爾增加到今年的 [7 億至 10 億巴西雷亞爾] 之間。因此，較高的利率確實會對我們的資產負債管理產生負面影響。

Next year if the scenario is confirmed of a declining interest rate we would normally see a recovery of this line item. Our Chief Economist at Bradesco expects the Selic rate to be at 11.75% by the end of next year. So we have to do our best to work internally and see if the scenario will be confirmed.

如果明年利率下降的情況得到證實，我們通常會看到該項目的復甦。布拉德斯科銀行首席經濟學家預計，到明年年底，Selic 利率將達到 11.75%。因此，我們必須盡最大努力進行內部工作，看看這種情況是否會得到證實。

Second aspect about interest rates is the impact it has on the economy. That's what Marcelo mentioned, a gradual slowdown of the economy. What we expect in terms of economic slowdown is a gradual deceleration more than we expected six months ago.

關於利率的第二個面向是它對經濟的影響。這就是馬塞洛提到的經濟逐漸放緩。我們預計經濟放緩將比六個月前預期的更加緩慢。

So the macro risk reduced in the last six months, high interest rates, but showing a labor market that is very robust and a very gradual slowdown of the economy, which allows the banks to adjust their NII to face this deceleration with a match being positive or neutral in terms of profitability for the system.

因此，過去六個月宏觀風險有所降低，利率較高，但顯示出勞動力市場非常強勁，經濟放緩非常緩慢，這使得銀行能夠調整其NII以應對這種減速，而這種匹配對於系統的盈利能力而言是積極或中性的。

(interpreted) And could you let me add to that. That's a good question actually. You asked about the expectations regarding NII and NIM. And I answered that before. NIM, of course, we wanted to grow, but it is not the most important indicator.

（翻譯）您能讓我補充一下嗎？這確實是一個好問題。您詢問了有關 NII 和 NIM 的期望。我之前回答過這個問題。當然，我們希望淨利息收益率 (NIM) 能夠成長，但這並不是最重要的指標。

We have to continue to grow our NII. And that growth came from better liability management, reducing the cost of funding. It came from this stacking of portfolios that have a much higher risk-adjusted return. So this is adding NII with longer maturities. And I think that we have room to continue to grow.

我們必須繼續發展我們的國家資訊基礎結構。這種成長源自於更好的負債管理，從而降低了融資成本。它來自於風險調整後回報率更高的投資組合。因此，這是增加期限較長的 NII。我認為我們還有繼續成長的空間。

Yes, we have room to grow our NII with our client credit operations. And I'll take your question and speak about -- because I spoke about the quality of the portfolio overall. So our loans are very much under control. Auto loans very much under control. But we have been granting more auto loans for new vehicles and heavy vehicles with a better credit quality and delinquencies under control, overnight the NPL under control.

是的，透過客戶信貸業務，我們有成長 NII 的空間。我會回答你的問題並談談——因為我談到了整體投資組合的品質。所以我們的貸款非常受控制。汽車貸款受到很大控制。但我們一直在為新車和重型車輛發放更多汽車貸款，這些貸款的信用品質更高，拖欠率也得到了控制，不良貸款一夜之間就得到了控制。

But we see an opportunity. There is a positive RAR for a part of used vehicles until a certain age of the vehicle. So we do have an expectation of growth, just like this expectation of growth in private payroll loan as long as it is well adjusted and we can gain market share.

但我們看到了機會。對於部分二手車，在達到一定年限之前，其 RAR 為正值。因此，我們確實有成長的預期，就像私人薪資貸款的成長預期一樣，只要調整得當，我們就可以獲得市場份額。

So I see an evolution of NII is very important. In the ER efficiency ratio that we talked about in the previous question, we tend to grow, but we are very convinced about the growth of our NII with good efficiency ratio and good quality of the portfolio.

因此我認為 NII 的演變非常重要。在我們上一個問題中談到的 ER 效率比率中，我們傾向於成長，但我們非常有信心，憑藉良好的效率比率和良好的投資組合質量，我們的 NII 能夠成長。

Okay. Great. Thank you very much.

好的。偉大的。非常感謝。

(interpreted) Henrique Navarro, Santander.

（翻譯） 桑坦德銀行的恩里克·納瓦羅。

(interpreted) Thank you. Andre. Congratulations on the earnings. Congratulations, Andre, also for the communication, it's very good, so it helps reduce volatilities.

（翻譯）謝謝。安德烈。恭喜您獲得收益。恭喜你，安德烈，也祝賀你的溝通，這非常好，有助於減少波動。

My question, the second quarter showed that Bradesco is on the track to deliver the right higher than the cost of capital. So now I keep thinking about the next step. And taking question, if we have a better -- we have better market conditions if Selic begins to fall as of January 2026 and delinquency under control.

我的問題是，第二季的數據顯示，Bradesco 有望實現高於資本成本的利潤。所以現在我一直在思考下一步。並且回答一個問題，如果我們有更好的——如果 Selic 從 2026 年 1 月開始下降並且拖欠現象得到控制，我們將有更好的市場條件。

And when we look at Bradesco transform, we will begin to see more tailwinds in 2026. So what could be a possible number? I mean what's the size of this expansion in terms of quality and profitability, which will naturally happen in 2026. Can we think about 17% or 18% ROE or ROI? I mean just a number we'd like to have so that the market can align if -- I mean, what would be the structure of Bradesco ROI?

當我們看到 Bradesco 的轉型時，我們將在 2026 年開始看到更多的順風。那麼可能的數字是多少呢？我的意思是，從品質和獲利能力來看，這次擴張的規模有多大，這將在 2026 年自然發生。我們可以考慮 17% 或 18% 的 ROE 或 ROI 嗎？我的意思是，我們希望有一個數字，以便市場能夠保持一致 - 我的意思是，Bradesco ROI 的結構是什麼樣的？

(interpreted) Thank you, Navarro, for the question. Well, as we've said, we do not promise what the ROI would be or what the ROE will be. But we will do everything in our reach to deliver higher profitability, higher net income, higher revenue, expense control, higher quality of the loan portfolio, and we'll do that quarter after quarter. I mean, step by step, and that has not changed. So we will keep our promise.

（翻譯）納瓦羅，謝謝你的提問。嗯，正如我們所說的，我們不承諾投資回報率 (ROI) 是多少或淨資產收益率 (ROE) 是多少。但我們將竭盡全力實現更高的盈利能力、更高的淨收入、更高的收入、費用控制、更高品質的貸款組合，並且我們將一個季度接一個季度地做到這一點。我的意思是，一步一步來，這一點沒有改變。所以我們會遵守諾言。

Of course, we do have the expectation to be able to continue to evolve. But if we would now go back to February 8, we expected the interest rate to be 13%. So the cost of capital would be lower. I mean, we would already be delivering the right numbers now. But I mean, we don't promise anything about that.

當然，我們確實期望能夠繼續發展。但如果我們現在回到 2 月 8 日，我們預計利率將達到 13%。因此資本成本會更低。我的意思是，我們現在已經提供了正確的數字。但我的意思是，我們對此不做任何承諾。

But I believe the balance sheet already has consistent results as I mentioned earlier on, I mean, if you look at the operating result, I think it's the best snapshot we have looking at our balance sheet. Now how much that will be? I mean, we expect to continue to grow with good deliveries, stacking our portfolios.

但我相信資產負債表已經有了一致的結果，正如我之前提到的，我的意思是，如果你看一下經營結果，我認為這是我們資產負債表上最好的快照。現在這個數字是多少？我的意思是，我們希望透過良好的交付和豐富的產品組合繼續實現成長。

And there's something I didn't mention when I answered Kuri's question, but I'll do it now. I mean, in addition to stacking our portfolios and controlling liabilities and having the right segments and good credit policies, I mean, when you have a segment where the delinquency, the expected delinquency is lower, you do face more competition in those segments.

當我回答 Kuri 的問題時，有一件事我沒有提到，但我現在要說一下。我的意思是，除了堆積我們的投資組合、控制負債、擁有正確的細分市場和良好的信貸政策之外，當你擁有一個拖欠率、預期拖欠率較低的細分市場時，你確實會在這些細分市場面臨更多的競爭。

Well, we launched a five year plan only 18 months ago. So we still have a long time ahead of us to execute the plan. And what we want to do is to improve profitability quarter after quarter, step by step continually. Now talking about the ROE, the idea would be to come to the cost of capital. I mean we have a double target in the short term, the cost of capital.

嗯，我們僅在 18 個月前啟動了一項五年計劃。所以我們還有很長的時間來執行這個計劃。我們想要做的是逐季度、逐步地持續提高獲利能力。現在談論 ROE，其想法就是資本成本。我的意思是我們在短期內有雙重目標，即資本成本。

And in the long run, we have to continue to work in the long run. That's why Marcelo said we will continue to invest in the bank transformation because that will ensure competitiveness in the long term. And then I mean, if you want to calculate where we want to get, we have to continue to work to improve efficiency and 40% would be a good number, good ambition.

從長遠來看，我們必須繼續長期努力。這就是為什麼馬塞洛說我們將繼續投資銀行轉型，因為這將確保長期競爭力。然後我的意思是，如果你想計算我們想要達到的目標，我們必須繼續努力提高效率，40% 是一個不錯的數字，很好的目標。

(interpreted) Let me add, Navarro and tell you. I said the same thing in the interview with the media. We feel highly excited at everything we're doing at the bank. It's a straight line. We just make dynamic adjustments, but we feel highly confident a few deliveries are better and then we make adjustments. I believe we have a lot of traction in the organization, high engagement and all teams in the organization, all areas and in all customer segments.

（翻譯）讓我補充一下，納瓦羅，並告訴你。我在接受媒體採訪時也說過同樣的話。我們對銀行所做的一切感到非常興奮。這是一條直線。我們只是進行動態調整，但我們非常有信心，一些交付會更好，然後我們會進行調整。我相信我們在組織中具有很大的吸引力，組織內的所有團隊、所有領域和所有客戶群都具有很高的參與度。

(interpreted) Thanks for the question. Eduardo Rosman, BTG. Rosman?

（翻譯）感謝您的提問。愛德華多·羅斯曼，BTG。羅斯曼？

(interpreted) I'd like to hear more about collateralized portfolios, especially those that are backed by the government, either by FGI, FGO, Pronampe and other government programs. I'd like to understand the magnitude of this market, the size of this market. I mean the impact on RAR has been good.

（翻譯）我想了解更多有關抵押投資組合的信息，特別是那些由政府支持的投資組合，無論是由 FGI、FGO、Pronampe 還是其他政府計劃支持的投資組合。我想了解這個市場的規模、這個市場的規模。我的意思是它對 RAR 的影響是好的。

But what about the future? Can we have an even higher return growing these portfolios? Or are we going to have to find new ways to monetize these customers or maybe have less cyclical, less cyclical effects. I'd like to hear more about that from you.

但未來會怎樣？透過增加這些投資組合，我們能否獲得更高的回報？或者我們必須找到新的方式來將這些客戶貨幣化，或減少週期性影響。我希望從您那裡聽到更多有關此事的信息。

(interpreted) Thank you, Rosman. Thanks for the question, and thank you for joining us. It's a pleasure to see you. My answer is that this portfolio, I mean, I don't know the exact number, but looking at all of these government programs, FGI, Pronampe, Procred, I mean, this year, up until June, the amount released on the market is the same as we did in the full year 2024, the whole market. So the volume has grown.

（翻譯）謝謝你，羅斯曼。感謝您的提問，也感謝您加入我們。很高興見到你。我的回答是，這個投資組合，我的意思是，我不知道確切的數字，但看看所有這些政府計劃，FGI、Pronampe、Procred，我的意思是，今年截至 6 月，在市場上釋放的數量與我們在 2024 年全年、整個市場釋放的數量相同。因此數量增加了。

We -- I mean, last year, we said we ranked second with 18.3% share. Now we've gained market share in this business. But however, this portfolio have a risk-adjusted return only if you follow your models because you have different models for different ranges and also depending on the program providing collateral.

我們——我的意思是，去年，我們以 18.3% 的份額排名第二。現在我們已經在這個行業獲得了市場份額。但是，只有遵循模型，該投資組合才具有風險調整回報，因為對於不同的範圍有不同的模型，並且還取決於提供抵押品的計劃。

So Andre and the teams and even myself, we're always talking about this. But obviously, when you do that, you are building a long-term relationship with customers. And then you begin to know these customers and you have more fees from that customer because that's a long-term customer. So we're not doing just that. If you look at direct credit or personal credit, our margins are lower. Why? Because we do have restrictions.

所以安德烈、團隊甚至我自己，我們一直在談論這個問題。但顯然，當你這樣做時，你就是在與客戶建立長期關係。然後你開始了解這些客戶，並且你會從他們那裡獲得更多的費用，因為他們是長期客戶。所以我們做的不只這些。如果您考慮直接信貸或個人信貸，我們的利潤率較低。為什麼？因為我們確實有限制。

But who do we provide these loans to? We have a few people, high income that will take -- will accept personal loans. However, there will be a lower return, a lower rate. But if I grow, if I increase the rate, I am not going to have this high-quality customer. So we want to attract the best customers, customers that will pay our due date.

但是我們向誰提供這些貸款？我們有一些高收入的人願意接受個人貸款。然而，回報率會較低，利率也會較低。但如果我發展壯大，如果我提高利率，我就不會擁有這個高品質的客戶。因此，我們希望吸引最好的客戶，也就是那些願意按時付款的客戶。

So maybe the spread would be lower. But when you look at personal credit or individual credit, the rates are usually very high. So we're looking for a point of balance. And what you see here is also a reflection of the work done in different areas. For example, credit cards growing about 20%.

因此，價差可能會更低。但當你查看個人信用或個人信用時，利率通常非常高。所以我們正在尋找一個平衡點。您在這裡看到的也是不同領域所做工作的體現。例如，信用卡成長約20%。

The consortium is also bringing a lot of traction, fees and commissions. Again, we're doing real estate. Our growth with companies in the investment bank, growth in the distribution, generating business for our treasury desk. So I mean, it is work done on all different fronts. I mean if you look at the insurance group with all the distribution because you have external channels, but also, we still have our own internal channels.

該財團也帶來了許多吸引力、費用和佣金。再說一次，我們做的是房地產。我們與投資銀行公司的合作不斷成長，分銷業務不斷成長，為我們的財務部門創造了業務。所以我的意思是，這是在各個不同方面完成的工作。我的意思是，如果你看看保險集團的所有分銷管道，因為你有外部管道，但同時，我們仍然有自己的內部管道。

So I see growth with diversification on different lines of business. As I mentioned earlier, another line of business that can be important for us with a very interesting RAR and a higher spread would be to increase our share in used vehicle loans. I mean, not all kinds of used cars, but I think we can have more participation in this market because the RAR is attractive.

因此，我認為不同業務線的多元化將帶來成長。正如我之前提到的，另一項對我們來說很重要的業務是增加我們在二手車貸款中的份額，它具有非常有趣的 RAR 和更高的利差。我的意思是，不是所有類型的二手車，但我認為我們可以更多地參與這個市場，因為 RAR 很有吸引力。

And so I believe it is this balance that will continue to bring growth with profitability to us and actual relationship with these customers, building long-term relationships as with mortgage or real estate financing, which is a relationship with individuals, but also with companies, even though the rate can be a bit lower.

因此，我相信這種平衡將繼續為我們帶來成長和獲利，並與這些客戶建立實際關係，建立長期關係，如抵押貸款或房地產融資，這是一種與個人的關係，也是與公司的關係，儘管利率可能會低一些。

(interpreted) Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

（翻譯）卡洛斯‧戈麥斯-洛佩茲，匯豐銀行。

Congratulations on your next positive step. I think you have 6, and these are typically 12-step programs. So you have another 6 to go. I have two questions. The first one to Ivan, who has been there all along, and he's responsible for almost 40% of the company.

恭喜您邁出了積極的一步。我認為您有 6 個，這些通常是 12 步驟程序。所以你還有 6 個要去。我有兩個問題。第一個是伊万，他一直在那裡，負責公司近 40% 的股份。

So the insurance business continues to do very well. I wanted to -- but you imply lower growth for the next of the year. So I wanted to ask you what the evolution is going to be in the second half, in particular in health care, which in my account has had very high profitability. How sustainable is that? And what leads you to maintain the guidance for insurance? And second, could you define once again what your cost of equity is?

因此保險業務持續表現良好。我想——但你暗示明年的成長會較低。所以我想問您下半年的發展情況，特別是醫療保健領域，在我看來，該領域的盈利能力非常高。這有多可持續？是什麼促使您維持對保險的指導？其次，您能否再次定義一下您的股權成本是多少？

(interpreted) Okay. I think Ivan is connected. Lopez, thank you very much for your question.

（翻譯）好的。我認為伊万與此有關。洛佩茲，非常感謝您的提問。

(interpreted) Carlos, thank you very much for your question. What I can tell you is that we are very optimistic. I just talked to the press, very optimistic regarding the new guidance of the insurance group as a whole. Secondly, regarding health care. we have been seeing in Brazil a consolidation trend in the private health insurance segment, the number of MCOs, the regulatory challenges.

（翻譯）卡洛斯，非常感謝您的提問。我可以告訴你的是，我們非常樂觀。我剛剛與媒體進行了交談，對整個保險集團的新指導非常樂觀。其次，關於醫療保健，我們看到巴西私人醫療保險領域呈現整合趨勢，MCO 數量增加，監管挑戰加大。

They are all components of our interpretation of this consolidation. Well, what you will see is that this market of private health insurance, we see it very positively, particularly with the basic need for protection in this area by the Brazilian middle class, approximately 100 million people, people who need health care protection.

它們都是我們對這合併的解釋的組成部分。嗯，你會看到，我們對私人醫療保險市場持非常樂觀的態度，特別是考慮到巴西中產階級對這一領域的基本保護需求，大約有 1 億人需要醫療保健保護。

At the same time, we do not see nothing very incremental, nothing very different in this segment of public health care, which leads us to believe that private health insurance will be the big solution for the Brazilian people.

同時，我們沒有看到公共醫療保健領域有任何進步，也沒有什麼不同，這讓我們相信私人醫療保險將成為巴西人民的重大解決方案。

So we have a positive look of the private health insurance and we intend to take part in this growth in the several phases of our chain of action. So we operate with Bradesco Saudi and Odontoprev, which ensure the lives of about 13 million beneficiaries if people look at the two operations together.

因此，我們對私人醫療保險持積極態度，並打算在我們行動鏈的幾個階段參與這一成長。因此，我們與 Bradesco Saudi 和 Odontoprev 合作，如果將這兩項業務結合起來看，可以確保大約 1,300 萬名受益人的生命。

They benefit Brazilians with high-quality solutions all over Brazil. We also execute a robust program of investments investing primarily in our network of hospitals through a recently created arm called Atlantica Hospitals.

他們為巴西各地的巴西人民提供高品質的解決方案。我們還透過新成立的 Atlantica Hospitals 部門實施了一項強有力的投資計劃，主要投資於我們的醫院網路。

So we have a very positive approach to this market. We will continue to invest in it, Carlos. And we see this market very positively. I don't know if I answered your question, and I remain available if you need any further information.

因此，我們對這個市場持非常積極的態度。我們將繼續投資，卡洛斯。我們對這個市場非常樂觀。我不知道我是否回答了您的問題，如果您需要任何進一步的信息，我隨時可以為您提供幫助。

Yeah, I was going to say you have made about BRL900 million in health every quarter in the last two quarters. Is that a sustainable level? Or is a period and we should go back to something like the historical returns.

是的，我想說的是，在過去兩個季度中，您每個季度在健康方面都賺了大約 9 億巴西雷亞爾。這是一個可持續的水平嗎？或者是一個時期，我們應該回到類似歷史回報的東西。

(interpreted) Ivan, would you like to answer that?

（翻譯）伊万，你願意回答這個問題嗎？

(interpreted) Of course, we cannot really give you any numbers at this point. In the first half of the year, our company operating in the private health insurance segment published a very robust earnings and this is published in our results.

（解釋）當然，我們現在無法給出任何數字。今年上半年，我們公司在私人健康保險領域取得了非常強勁的盈利，這已在我們的業績中公佈。

For the second half of the year, we do envision some difficulties, but more related to the indexes. Of course, people will be using the health care services, and we will be prepared for that. The point of attention would be the financial indexers because given the macroeconomics, they might change either because of IPCA index or even the Selic rate.

對於下半年，我們確實預計會出現一些困難，但更多與指數有關。當然，人們會使用醫療保健服務，我們會為此做好準備。關注的重點是金融指數編制者，因為考慮到宏觀經濟，它們可能會因為 IPCA 指數甚至 Selic 利率而改變。

So these are points of attention. But in structural and operational terms, reducing medical loss ratio and in terms of gaining new lives in the several regions of Brazil. Earlier today in the press conference, I mentioned the new product that we just launched in the region of Goias. We will follow through in Mato Grosso and Mato Grosso do Sul to bring a new understanding of private health insurance in the Midwest of Brazil.

這些是需要注意的點。但從結構和營運角度來看，降低了醫療損失率，並在巴西的幾個地區獲得了新生。今天早些時候在新聞發布會上，我提到了我們剛剛在戈亞斯地區推出的新產品。我們將在馬托格羅索州和南馬托格羅索州開展工作，為巴西中西部地區的私人醫療保險帶來新的認識。

South and Southeast regions of Brazil are very well covered. And we are growing strongly in the Northeast region. The region Fortaleza gives us a lot of potential. And more recently we were in [Minnesota's] state where we intend to increase private health insurance, bringing new clients, new customers, new lives to our portfolio. The trend in the next six months is to increase the balance of under the scope of private health insurance, adding to this number of 13 million beneficiaries that I mentioned earlier.

巴西南部和東南地區的覆蓋範圍非常廣。我們在東北地區發展強勁。福塔萊薩地區給了我們很大的潛力。最近，我們打算在明尼蘇達州增加私人健康保險，為我們的投資組合帶來新客戶、新顧客和新生活。未來六個月的趨勢是增加私人醫療保險範圍內的保險餘額，使受益人數增加到我之前提到的1,300萬人。

(interpreted) So regarding the cost of equity, Carlos, what we have observed is that cost of equity in the last 18 months has been oscillating between 14% and 16%, depending on market and economic conditions. Our last survey with sell-side analysts indicated a median estimated median by the analysts of 15.6%, already dropping vis-a-vis the previous survey.

（解釋）關於股權成本，卡洛斯，我們觀察到，過去 18 個月股權成本一直在 14% 到 16% 之間波動，具體取決於市場和經濟狀況。我們上次對賣方分析師的調查顯示，分析師估計的中位數為 15.6%，與上次調查相比已經下降。

So it seems that there is a trend for slight reduction looking forward. But of course, we don't control this number. We pursue this number. We monitor it, and we intend to get to that number as quickly as possible preferably. And thank you for the questions.

因此，未來似乎有略微減少的趨勢。但當然，我們無法控制這個數字。我們追求這個數字。我們對其進行監控，並希望盡快達到這個數字。謝謝你們的提問。

Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

貝爾納多·古特曼，XP。

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre. good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my questions and congrats on the of the results of the bank. My question is about the agribusiness portfolio, which continues to grow significant with delinquency still under control even in a moment where we have seen clear signs of deterioration in this segment.

（翻譯）謝謝你，安德烈。大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題，並對銀行的成績表示祝賀。我的問題是關於農業綜合企業組合的，儘管我們已經看到該領域出現明顯惡化跡象，但該組合仍在繼續增長，且拖欠率仍然受到控制。

How can you explain your more resilient performance? Is it a more structural profile of the portfolio concentration in midsized and large clients, greater guarantees, lower exposure to subs is it linked to an active risk management that avoided a worse. And looking forward, does the bank remain comfortable in maintaining this pace of expansion in the agribusiness portfolio?

您如何解釋自己更具韌性的表現？它是否更具結構性，投資組合集中在中型和大型客戶、提供更多擔保、降低對子公司的風險敞口，是否與積極的風險管理有關，從而避免了更糟糕的情況。展望未來，該銀行是否仍願意維持農業綜合企業投資組合的這種擴張速度？

(interpreted) Thank you, Guttmann. Thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure to have you on board. Well, it's actually those three factors that you mentioned. It's all on the table.

（翻譯）謝謝你，古特曼。感謝您加入我們。非常高興您能加入我們。嗯，實際上就是您提到的三個因素。一切都擺在桌面上。

Of course, we have models to operate with certain ratings. Look at some crops. For example, we have some traditional clients with us in the agribusiness. The bank has an important share of this sector. We're very active in several regions of Brazil, but it is what you also mentioned.

當然，我們有針對特定評級進行操作的模型。看看一些農作物。例如，我們在農業綜合企業中有一些傳統客戶。該銀行在該領域佔有重要份額。我們在巴西的幾個地區非常活躍，但這也是您提到的。

There are crops that have a slightly higher risk. There are crops that have a positive margin. They've had a positive margin over the years. I see the Brazilian agribusiness as centers of wealth. And of course, there are some exceptions, some sectoral exceptions or some exception companies, either geographically speaking or by crop, we do have an effective market share, and we have a dedicated team to analyze that.

有些作物的風險稍高一些。有些作物有正利潤。多年來，他們的利潤一直為正。我認為巴西的農業綜合企業是財富中心。當然，也有一些例外，一些行業例外或一些例外公司，無論是從地理位置還是從作物角度來說，我們確實擁有有效的市場份額，並且我們有專門的團隊來分析這一點。

Those platforms that I mentioned in the presentation, Guttmann, we have specialized team that we have. Agronomists working together with our managers in the conversations with the clients to understand details about the farms, crops and we have all the technological support to monitor.

我在演講中提到的那些平台，Guttmann，我們有專門的團隊。農學家與我們的經理一起與客戶交談，以了解有關農場、作物的詳細信息，並且我們提供所有技術支援進行監控。

We have a credit team specialized in agribusiness and specialized in different crops also supporting us. And we have a group that analyzes periodically the risks and this group helps the managers understand the risks. So yes, we are comfortable in expanding this, but expanding for what?

我們有一個專門從事農業綜合企業的信貸團隊，並且專門為不同的作物提供支援。我們有一個定期分析風險的小組，該小組幫助管理人員了解風險。是的，我們願意擴大這一點，但擴大的目的是什麼呢？

Certain crops for which we have a controlled expected loss. And we intend to expand to companies that have acceptable ratings for us. And this is, 100% of what we do in rural loans. All of them are secured loans. Most of them were the trusted, valuable guarantees. You might have strong or weaker guarantees. Yes, that happens, but we are very confident about what we see regarding our NPL.

我們對某些作物的預期損失進行了控制。我們打算將業務擴展到那些我們能接受其評級的公司。這就是我們在農村貸款方面所做的全部工作。所有這些都是有擔保的貸款。其中大部分都是值得信賴的、有價值的保證。您可能有強或弱的保證。是的，這種情況確實會發生，但我們對不良貸款的情況非常有信心。

And I'd like to highlight in the month of May, we saw a slightly greater deviation, but then it returned to the expected level even with the John Deere Bank. And year after year, we can see in the month of May, it increases a little bit, then it drops again.

我想強調的是，在五月份，我們看到了略大的偏差，但隨後它又回到了預期水平，甚至包括約翰迪爾銀行。年復一年，我們可以看到，在五月份，它會略有增加，然後再次下降。

So there are some characteristics in the agribusiness that you have to know about. And yes, we are comfortable to continue to expand. But considering our criteria in our business unit, we have a portfolio management.

因此，您必須了解農業綜合企業的一些特徵。是的，我們很樂意繼續擴張。但考慮到我們業務部門的標準，我們有一個投資組合管理。

And we sue AI-backed model to monitor together with our economy group to analyze expected loss. And I'm not talking about past due loans, okay, Guttmann? I'm talking about the life portfolio. When we see signs of potential expected loss, we do active management. And operationally speaking and actually on a daily basis, we see our signs and we observed them for the whole set of companies from small business to middle market. And thank you for the question.

而我們採用人工智慧模型與我們的經濟小組一起監控，分析預期損失。我不是說逾期貸款，好嗎，古特曼？我說的是人生投資組合。當我們看到潛在預期損失的跡象時，我們會進行主動管理。從營運角度來說，實際上在日常生活中，我們都會看到這些跡象，並且我們觀察了從小型企業到中型市場的整個公司的情況。感謝您的提問。

(interpreted) Eduardo Nishio, Genial Investments.

（翻譯）Eduardo Nishio，Genial Investments。

(interpreted) Hello. Good morning. Good afternoon. Congratulations on your results. I have a question about strategy. If you could provide an update because a few things, we can see a few, we don't see. In this quarter, you reduced -- you further reduced the footprint. We can see some relevant numbers, 14% fewer bridges only in this quarter, a 5% reduction in the number of bridges.

（翻譯）你好。早安.午安.恭喜你所取得的成績。我有一個關於策略的問題。如果您能提供更新信息，因為有些事情我們可以看到，有些我們看不到。在本季度，你們減少了——你們進一步減少了足跡。我們可以看到一些相關的數字，光是本季橋樑就減少了14%，橋樑數量減少了5%。

The overall footprint is down 23% year over year if we also add branches or points of sale. Now in addition to the footprint reduction, what other initiatives we have that will release value in the next few months? And looking at the numbers, the guidance update and other numbers, I can see you were a bit more optimistic in terms of the plan. So can you please let us know what is working well, what not? What can you tell us about that? Thank you.

如果我們增加分行或銷售點，整體足跡將年減 23%。現在，除了減少碳足跡之外，我們還有哪些其他措施可以在未來幾個月釋放價值？從這些數字、指導更新和其他數字來看，我發現你對這個計劃更加樂觀。那麼，您能否讓我們知道哪些方面做得好，哪些方面做得不好？您能告訴我們什麼呢？謝謝。

(interpreted) Yes, Nishio, it is true. We feel optimistic about the outlook for the bank. Of course, we remain cautious regarding the economy, but we do feel optimistic. Maybe Cassiano could begin to answer, and I can add something else in the end.

（翻譯）是的，西尾，確實如此。我們對該銀行的前景感到樂觀。當然，我們對經濟仍然保持謹慎，但我們確實感到樂觀。也許卡西亞諾可以開始回答，然後我可以在最後補充一些其他內容。

(interpreted) Nishio it's a pleasure to see you. Yes. I think Marcelo spoke about that. And you mentioned the footprint reduction. But I mean, what we're looking at is return and efficiency. So controlling expenses as part of the equation. We are always looking at the cost to serve. And that's really important. Again, productivity, that we've improved using technology. And today, Marcelo provided a few more details.

（翻譯）西尾，很高興見到你。是的。我認為馬塞洛談到了這一點。您提到了減少足跡。但我的意思是，我們關注的是回報和效率。因此，控制費用是方程式的一部分。我們始終關注服務成本。這確實很重要。再次，我們利用科技提高了生產力。今天，馬塞洛提供了更多細節。

That's one of the foundations of our plan, massive use of GenAI, upskilling of the whole team, especially in technology and the principal segments growing, we will have 40 new units and a significant number of new customers.

這是我們計劃的基礎之一，大規模使用 GenAI，提升整個團隊的技能，特別是在技術和主要細分市場的成長，我們將擁有 40 個新部門和大量新客戶。

Now, further penetration rate in terms of technology, the new app and the internet banking services for companies, all of these are important business levers. The concentration of the liquidity optimization is again a very important element. We are also reengineering our legal processes. And that's something we do every day as part of our daily activities, looking at labor losses and other losses.

現在，科技的進一步滲透、新的應用程式以及企業網路銀行服務，都是重要的商業槓桿。流動性優化的集中度再次是一個非常重要的因素。我們也正在重新設計我們的法律流程。這是我們日常活動的一部分，每天都會關注勞動力損失和其他損失。

And also the new concept of the digital mass market, so having the right resources for the right customers, so we already have a number of customers, a few million customers served by the digital platform. And that is something we're growing.

此外，還有數位大眾市場的新概念，即為合適的客戶提供合適的資源，因此我們已經擁有大量客戶，數百萬客戶由數位平台提供服務。這就是我們正在發展的東西。

I mean it's a profitable segment when you provide the correct level of service. So these are the pillars. These are the fronts where we will be working in 2025, and you will see the evolution in many of these aspects, especially technology.

我的意思是，當你提供正確級別的服務時，這是一個有利可圖的部分。這些就是支柱。這些是我們 2025 年要努力的方向，您將看到其中許多方面的發展，尤其是技術。

So we now have a quicker time to market. We've had a 94% efficiency improvement. Marcelo mentioned that today, we're doing 4 times more in technology than we used to do in 2023. So these are the levers that will help us accelerate. So Bradesco culture has engaged all employees of the organization to do differently to bring ideas, to bring new solutions so that we can continue to develop the bank. I believe this is our future.

因此我們現在可以更快地將產品推向市場。我們的效率提高了 94%。馬塞洛提到，今天我們在科技方面的成就比 2023 年增加了 4 倍。這些就是幫助我們加速的槓桿。因此，Bradesco 文化讓組織內的所有員工都以不同的方式提出想法、提出新的解決方案，讓我們可以繼續發展銀行。我相信這就是我們的未來。

(interpreted) Let me also add, Cassiano and tell you that about what we have been doing, what we have been delivering can be seen in operating numbers. We have consistent operating numbers. But he mentioned a few points that can help us release more value and continue to execute our plan.

（翻譯）卡西亞諾，我還要補充一點，告訴你，我們一直在做的事情、我們所取得的成果都可以從營運數字看出來。我們的營運數字是一致的。但他提到了幾點可以幫助我們釋放更多價值並繼續執行我們的計劃。

We'll close the year with more than 50 principal offices and about 400,000 customers, and that will grow even more. Also, our segment of companies will continue to grow, especially now that we have a new segmentation. Small businesses will also grow.

今年年底，我們將擁有超過 50 個主要辦事處和約 40 萬名客戶，而這個數字還會進一步成長。此外，我們的公司部門將繼續成長，特別是現在我們有了新的細分。小型企業也將成長。

I spoke about our initiatives in the wholesale bank, including new cash services for large companies and also for SMEs. We have a large number of initiatives that have come out really strong with a lot of support of technology to improve productivity, always backed by GenAI. So we will have more news, and we will be talking about that in the next meetings.

我談到了我們在批發銀行的舉措，包括為大公司和中小企業提供新的現金服務。我們有大量措施取得了顯著成效，並得到了大量技術的支持，可以提高生產力，並且始終得到 GenAI 的支持。因此我們將會有更多新聞，我們將在下次會議上討論這個問題。

(interpreted) Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

（翻譯）雷納托·梅洛尼，自治。

(interpreted) Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my question. Congratulations on the results. First, about the payroll deductible loans for private companies. You said that in June and July, you would be able to begin to grow with this product, looking at the better collateral conditions.

（翻譯）下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。恭喜你取得這樣的成績。第一，關於民營企業薪資抵扣貸款的問題。您說，在六月和七月，您將能夠開始利用該產品進行成長，同時獲得更好的抵押條件。

And you also said that you would be growing also outside your customer base. Is that happening? Have the problems been solved? And also, I'd like to understand what we need to do to protect the customer base. And does that have any impact in terms of personal loans?

您也說過，您的客戶群以外的業務也會不斷擴大。有這樣的事嗎？問題解決了嗎？此外，我想了解我們需要做些什麼來保護客戶群。這對個人貸款有影響嗎？

And if I may, talking about agribusiness, I think you have a clear intent to grow there, although the moment is not really very favorable in terms of agribusiness loans, but this is a winning industry. And so I'd like to understand about the capacity to grow agribusiness loans in the next few years. Thank you.

如果可以的話，談到農業綜合企業，我認為您有明確的意圖在那裡發展，儘管目前農業綜合企業貸款方面並不是非常有利，但這是一個成功的行業。因此我想了解未來幾年農業綜合企業貸款的成長能力。謝謝。

(interpreted) Great. Thank you, Renato, and thank you for participating. I'm happy to see you here again. Now in terms of payroll deductible loans for private employees or employees in private companies, we prepared for that. Until we had the new regulation, the new rules for that, we had agreements with companies.

（解釋）太好了。謝謝你，雷納托，謝謝你的參與。我很高興在這裡再次見到你。現在，對於私人企業員工或私人公司員工的薪資抵扣貸款，我們已經做好了準備。在我們推出新的法規和新規則之前，我們與公司達成了協議。

And so we would do the transaction directly with the company. Now after the new regulations, we begin to use CTPS, not really using our channels, but you have to use CTPS to sign these loans. And we had a lot of work to do to do the paperwork.

因此我們會直接與公司進行交易。現在新規定出台後，我們開始使用 CTPS，並不是真正使用我們的管道，而是必須使用 CTPS 來簽署這些貸款。我們還有很多文書工作要做。

I mean, I provided the loan, I disbursed the amount and then I need the approval by the company and then the funds are transferred from cashier to the bank and then to the customer. So what we could see was that the process was not really well oiled.

我的意思是，我提供了貸款，我支付了金額，然後我需要公司的批准，然後資金從出納員轉移到銀行，然後轉移到客戶。因此，我們看到的是，整個過程並沒有真正順利進行。

I mean we had two payments, as I mentioned, recently. The second was a bit better than the first one. But looking at the market, the delinquency was higher than 16%, which is very high for this type of loan. When we talk about protecting the customer base, I mean, we already have deductible -- payroll deductible loans provided to the companies that are our customers.

我的意思是，正如我所提到的，我們最近有兩筆付款。第二個比第一個好一點。但從市場來看，拖欠率高於 16%，對於這類貸款來說，這個比例非常高。當我們談到保護客戶群時，我的意思是，我們已經為我們的客戶公司提供了可扣除的工資扣除貸款。

And we want to protect that business. But I mean, first, we did that according to our own criteria. So the answer is yes, we will continue to grow. We will begin to accelerate. And now we will trend towards gaining more market share. Why?

我們希望保護這項業務。但我的意思是，首先，我們是根據自己的標準來做的。所以答案是肯定的，我們將繼續發展。我們將開始加速。現在我們將致力於獲得更多的市場份額。為什麼？

Because we are a market leader. If you look at the public sector payroll deductible loans plus private plus FGTS, which are usually separate. I mean, but if you look at all these three buckets, we are market leaders. We are ranking behind two public banks only.

因為我們是市場領導者。如果您查看公共部門薪資扣除貸款加上私人貸款加上 FGTS，它們通常是分開的。我的意思是，但如果你看這三個方面，我們就是市場領導者。我們的排名僅落後兩家公營銀行。

However, in payroll deductible loans and private companies, we do not have a big share because we only provided these loans to the clients that have their payroll with us. So -- but I believe we will now begin to grow because now we have the new regulation. I mean I said the market had 16% delinquency. We had 5%, which is high for us.

然而，在薪資扣除貸款和私人公司中，我們的份額並不大，因為我們只向那些在我們這裡領取薪水的客戶提供這些貸款。所以——但我相信我們現在會開始成長，因為我們現在有了新的規定。我的意思是，我說市場拖欠率為 16%。我們有 5%，這對我們來說很高。

But we will be able to solve that. Why? Because we have a small customer base. We know the companies, we know the customers. So that's my expectation. And then you asked a second question about agribusiness. Maybe Andre can answer.

但我們能夠解決這個問題。為什麼？因為我們的客戶群很小。我們了解公司，我們了解客戶。這就是我的期望。然後您問了第二個關於農業綜合企業的問題。也許安德烈可以回答。

(interpreted) Yes, as Marcelo mentioned, agribusiness is one of the most vibrant industries in the economy. And we see a favorable outlook for the second half of this year and for the next year as well. And we also have good opportunities to grow our agribusiness portfolio.

（翻譯）是的，正如馬塞洛所說，農業綜合企業是經濟中最具活力的產業之一。我們對今年下半年和明年的前景看好。我們也有很好的機會來擴大我們的農業綜合企業組合。

We just have to find the right customers, the right credit lines and the right collaterals. But yes, of course, it is possible to grow our portfolio in agribusiness, right? With the right crops, the right geographies, the right rates, the right loan rates and the right collaterals according to our criteria, that's what we will do, Renato.

我們只需要找到合適的客戶、適當的信用額度和適當的抵押品。但是，當然，我們有可能擴大農業綜合企業的投資組合，對嗎？雷納托，只要有符合我們標準的合適的作物、合適的地理位置、合適的利率、合適的貸款利率和合適的抵押品，我們就會這麼做。

Always looking at our risk appetite and still continue to grow, doing good business with our customers, providing loans for equipment purchase, including John Deere transactions.

我們始終關注風險偏好並持續成長，與客戶進行良好的業務往來，為設備購買提供貸款，包括約翰迪爾交易。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的尤里費南德斯。

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre, Cassiano, Noronha. I am another person congratulating you on good earnings. Most of the questions have been asked. So I'll be more technical in my question. Something regarding the DTAs.

（譯）謝謝安德烈、卡西亞諾、諾隆尼亞。我也是祝賀您收入豐厚的人。大多數問題都已經問過了。因此，我的問題會更加技術化。有關 DTA 的一些事情。

Here, we consider the consumption of DTA. There was an increase, slight increase in DTA. So I'd like to understand why DTA is increased. Because if I look at the bank, everything is better. I know it depends on which unit generates credit and I understand that with 4966 something has changed. And you should stop generating so many DTAs.

這裡我們考慮DTA的消耗。DTA 增加，略有增加。所以我想了解為什麼 DTA 會增加。因為如果我看看銀行，一切都會變得更好。我知道這取決於哪個單位產生信用，我知道 4966 已經發生了一些變化。你應該停止生成這麼多的 DTA。

So what happened in this quarter? And what is the trajectory of use of these DTAs? Because it has an impact on your CET1 and it could be a good driver for market NII. So I'd like to understand a little bit about the DTAs.

那麼本季發生了什麼事？這些 DTA 的使用軌跡是怎麼樣的？因為它會影響您的 CET1，並且可能成為市場 NII 的良好驅動力。所以我想了解一些關於 DTA 的知識。

(interpreted) Good to see you, again. I'd like to ask Cassiano to answer your question.

（翻譯）很高興再次見到你。我想請卡西亞諾回答你的問題。

(interpreted) Hi Yuri, good to see you. Well, that's a simple answer. In this quarter, there was an increase in DTA related to the provision we made to neutralize gains coming from the comprehensive transaction program because -- so that generated more DTAs. That was a one-off case, a specific case. And the more we grow step by step, we will consume more DTA.

（翻譯）嗨，尤里，很高興見到你。嗯，這是一個簡單的答案。本季度，與我們為抵消綜合交易計劃帶來的收益而做出的準備金相關的 DTA 有所增加，因為——因此產生了更多的 DTA。那是一起個別案件，一個具體案件。而且隨著我們一步步成長，我們將會消耗更多的DTA。

And that there was no deviation. This has nothing to do with 4966 and nothing to do with credit origination itself. This is just due to PTI, the comprehensive transaction program and the provisions we made for labor. The provisions for -- the provisions for fiscal claims and labor claims.

並且沒有偏差。這與 4966 無關，也與信用發放本身無關。這只是由於 PTI、綜合交易計劃以及我們為勞動力製定的規定。財政索賠和勞工索賠的規定。

And regarding the expectation of using the DTAs in our report of economic and financial analysis, we present a scenario to consume the DTAs in the next 10 years, considering full IOC payment, growth of the loan book. And we can see that the expectation is that there will be no capital consumption will be taxable base and to consume the DTAs. It's all in the report.

關於在我們的經濟和財務分析報告中使用 DTA 的預期，我們提出了在未來 10 年內消耗 DTA 的情景，考慮到全額 IOC 支付和貸款帳簿的增長。我們可以看到，預期不會有資本消耗成為應稅基礎並消耗 DTA。報告裡有所有內容。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Tito Labarta。

Hi. Thanks, Andre. Hi Marcelo, Cassiano, thank you for the call and taking my question. And yes, congratulations on the continued improvements in the quality of results. My question is, I guess, on your capital base. Core Tier 1, 11.1%. We did start to see shareholders' equity increasing a little bit, particularly as ROE is improving. And you're paying around 60% payout.

你好。謝謝，安德烈。你好，Marcelo、Cassiano，感謝你們的來電並回答我的問題。是的，祝賀結果品質不斷提高。我想，我的問題是關於你的資本基礎。核心一級資本，11.1%。我們確實開始看到股東權益略有增加，特別是在 ROE 不斷提高的情況下。您需要支付約 60% 的賠款。

I know you're maximizing interest on capital to take advantage of the tax rate. But just how do you think about your capital base? Would you want to increase that at some point, particularly as profitability should continue to improve from here? Where should we think is the sustainable core Tier 1?

我知道您正在最大化資本利息以利用稅率。但是您如何看待您的資本基礎？您是否希望在某個時候增加這個數字，特別是當盈利能力從現在開始繼續提高時？我們應該認為可持續的核心一級在哪裡？

I mean if we look at the midpoint of your guidance, you get net income BRL23 billion, BRL24 billion, implies about a dividend of maybe BRL13 billion, BRL14 billion. Is that sort of the right assumption? And would that be -- could you increase capital in that perspective? Or should we stay around 11.1% or so? Thank you.

我的意思是，如果我們看一下您的指導中點，您將獲得淨收入 230 億巴西雷亞爾、240 億巴西雷亞爾，這意味著股息約為 130 億巴西雷亞爾、140 億巴西雷亞爾。這是正確的假設嗎？從這個角度來看，您能增加資本嗎？或者我們應該保持在 11.1% 左右？謝謝。

(interpreted) Our core Tier 1 had an index of 11.1% in Q2, exactly the same as Q1 with an expectation of stability in this indicator until the end of the year. In other words, everything that we need to pay IOC to enjoy to benefit, the most and grow the portfolio, we'll find funding sources internally, organically based on our profit generation, stabilizing this indicator. This is a very adequate level in our opinion, well above the minimum regulatory requirement and according to our internal requirements.

（解釋）我們的核心一級資本充足率在第二季為 11.1%，與第一季完全相同，預計到年底將保持穩定。換句話說，我們需要向 IOC 支付所有費用才能享受最大利益並增加投資組合，我們將根據我們的利潤產生情況在內部有機地尋找資金來源，從而穩定這一指標。我們認為這是一個非常合適的水平，遠高於最低監管要求，也符合我們的內部要求。

So we have a buffer to take advantage of all opportunities that arise without an evident capital restriction. And as I mentioned in the previous question, in our report of economic and financial analysis, we consider a scenario in which we absorb our stock of DTAs without impacting our capital base. So that is a very realistic and stable scenario for our capital base. Thank you.

因此，我們有一個緩衝，可以利用出現的所有機會，而不受明顯的資本限制。正如我在上一個問題中提到的，在我們的經濟和金融分析報告中，我們考慮了一種情景，即在不影響我們資本基礎的情況下吸收我們的 DTA 存量。因此，對於我們的資本基礎來說，這是一個非常現實且穩定的情境。謝謝。

(interpreted) We now close the Q&A session. The questions that were not answered today, our Investor Relations team will answer them immediately after the meeting. Before I hand the floor back to Marcelo to close the meeting, let me tell you on our Investor Relations website, we have the full presentation plus more details about our results. Marcelo?

（翻譯）我們現在結束問答環節。對於今天未解答的問題，我們的投資者關係團隊將在會議結束後立即解答。在我將發言權交還給馬塞洛結束會議之前，請允許我在我們的投資者關係網站上告訴您，我們有完整的演示文稿以及有關我們業績的更多詳細信息。馬塞洛？

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre. Thank you, Cassiano . Thank you all for joining us this morning. Thank you, all the analysts and investors who contributed with your questions. You can come and talk to us the whole sell side and buy side if you have questions about our quarterly balance sheet. Thank you all very much. Have a great week. Thank you. Bye-bye.

（翻譯）謝謝你，安德烈。謝謝你，卡西亞諾。感謝大家今天上午參加我們的活動。感謝所有提出問題的分析師和投資者。如果您對我們的季度資產負債表有任何疑問，您可以來和我們整個賣方和買方進行交談。非常感謝大家。祝您有個愉快的一周。謝謝。再見。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。