Banco Bradesco S.A. (BBD) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning. I am Marcelo Noronha. And I'm here once again from Cidade de Deus, the headquarter of Bradesco just to present another quarter of results for the first quarter of 2026. Today is Thursday, May 7. It's 10:31, so we are here live from our studios.

早安。我是 Marcelo Noronha。我再次從 Cidade de Deus（布拉德斯科 Bradesco 總部）來到這裡，向各位呈報 2026 年第一季的季度業績。今天是 5 月 7 日星期四，現在是 10:31，因此我們正在攝影棚進行現場直播。

My presentation will be briefer when compared to our last earnings release presentation. And after the presentation, we will go straight into the Q&A session. It's a great pleasure to be with you once again, and thank you for joining us today. I'll start by presenting the numbers, and then I will also mention a few issues that have raised questions from colleagues on the sell side and also buy side, questions that were posted to our IR team.

相較於上一次的財報發布簡報，我今天的簡報會更精簡。簡報結束後，我們將直接進入問答環節。很高興再次與各位相聚，感謝各位今天的參與。我會先呈報數字，接著也會提到幾個賣方與買方同業提出的問題，這些問題已提交給我們的投資人關係（IR）團隊。

So I'll start from what you saw since yesterday because the presentation was available to all of you. Our recurring net income in the first quarter of '26 was BRL6.8 billion, up by 16.1% year on year and 4.5% quarter on quarter, delivering an ROAE of 15.8%.This is a reminder in the last quarter of 2025. Our ROAE was 15.2%, so that means that we were up by 0.6 percentage points vis-a-vis our recurring net income.

我先從各位自昨天起就已看到的內容開始，因為簡報已對各位公開。我們 2026 年第一季的經常性淨利為 68 億雷亞爾（BRL6.8 billion），年增 16.1%、季增 4.5%，帶動 ROAE 達 15.8%。提醒各位，2025 年第四季我們的 ROAE 為 15.2%，也就是說，相較於經常性淨利，我們提升了 0.6 個百分點。

So what drove this recurring net income? I mean, total revenues grew 14% year over year, and this is the main driver of profitability and cost-to-income ratio improvement, not only this quarter. But certainly, this will lead to improved results throughout the year.

那麼，是什麼驅動了這個經常性淨利？也就是說，總收入年增 14%，這是獲利能力與成本收入比改善的主要驅動因素，不僅是本季；更確定的是，這將帶動全年業績的改善。

We -- I've been talking about moderate appetite and I've been referring to that for several quarters with a more conservative bias, but that doesn't mean that our appetite will decrease when it comes to growing our loan portfolio. We will continue to grow but with certain ratings. I mean, maybe we will not do certain ratings or maybe we may not want to go to certain segments or crops. And we want to have more secure portfolios.

我一直在談「適度的風險偏好」，並且在過去幾季都以較保守的取向來描述，但這並不代表我們在擴大放款組合方面的意願會下降。我們會持續成長，但會針對特定評等來進行；也就是說，某些評等我們可能不做，或是我們可能不想進入某些區隔或產業/作物。我們希望擁有更安全的投資組合。

And then I will show you later on our structured operations. I will talk about the market and so on.

接著我稍後會向各位展示我們的結構性操作（structured operations），也會談到市場等相關內容。

I mean, cost of risk has increased. I'll certainly mention that further on, but there was a very specific wholesale case because this is what led to that portfolio. We decided to be even more conservative.

也就是說，風險成本（cost of risk）有所上升。我稍後一定會再提，但其中有一個非常特定的批發金融（wholesale）個案，這就是導致該組合變化的原因。我們決定採取更保守的作法。

And I will talk a little bit about Agribusiness. I mean, old cohorts that some of them may be on stage three or stage two. So that's what we saw here. We've been operating heavily on agribusiness but with more secured loans.

我也會稍微談一下農業金融（Agribusiness）。也就是說，較早期的放款批次（old cohorts）中，有些可能落在第三階段或第二階段。因此我們在這裡看到的就是這些情況。我們在農業金融領域的業務量很大，但採取了更有擔保的放款。

Our Insurance segment delivered consistent results, reaching almost 22% of ROE. And last week on the 30th, we launched Bradsaúde, consolidating all of our healthcare assets with a positive impact on our capital ratios. But above all, this unleashed value to our shareholders, this is a very important operation.

我們的保險事業部門交出穩健的成果，ROE 接近 22%。此外，上週 30 日我們推出了 Bradsaúde，整合我們所有的醫療健康資產，對資本比率帶來正面影響。更重要的是，這釋放了股東價值，這是一項非常重要的交易。

I think if you look at the capital market, the market cap was BRL42 billion, which means to say that it brought higher goodwill, surpassing BRL30 billion in our organization. So this was quite an important move. But in my view, my personal view, this has upside going forward.

我認為如果你看資本市場，市值為 420 億雷亞爾（BRL42 billion），也就是說，為我們的組織帶來更高的商譽（goodwill），在我們機構內超過 300 億雷亞爾（BRL30 billion）。因此這是一個相當重要的舉措。但以我個人的看法，未來仍有上行空間。

And our transformation continue at an accelerated pace with increased use of GenAI and high technology. We continue to gain productivity and delivering even more.

而我們的轉型也持續以加速的步伐推進，生成式 AI（GenAI）與高科技的使用增加。我們持續提升生產力，交付更多成果。

I will always begin with my discourse of cause and effect. So I would like to say that this is our recurring net income. But there was also BRL1.8 billion in non-recurring expenses related to one fiscal contingency. And according to the legislation, it could have been negotiated. So what happened is that our contingency was around BRL5 billion. But we decided to pay for that contingency and we paid in full with DTAs.

我一向會以「因果」的邏輯開場。因此我想說，這是我們的經常性淨利。但同時也有 18 億雷亞爾（BRL1.8 billion）的非經常性費用，與一項稅務或有事項（fiscal contingency）相關。依照法規，該事項原本可以協商處理。當時我們的或有金額約為 50 億雷亞爾（BRL5 billion），但我們決定支付該或有事項，並以遞延所得稅資產（DTAs）全額支付。

This is a very exciting and positive piece of news because again, I mean, cause and effect, the cause was the opportunity to make a move like that. And the effect was that now our balance sheet has even superior quality. And in the past few years, we paid for fiscal contingencies amounting to 20%. So that was a good opportunity to do it. That gives us better quality because it reduces the risk in our balance sheet and that affects all of our shareholders. So this doesn't change, by no means, our recurring net income but improves the quality of our P&L.

這是一則非常令人振奮且正面的消息，因為同樣地，從因果來看，原因是我們有機會做出這樣的動作；結果是我們的資產負債表品質現在更為提升。過去幾年，我們已支付相當於 20% 的稅務或有事項。因此這是一次很好的機會。這提升了品質，因為它降低了資產負債表的風險，並影響到所有股東。因此，這完全不會改變我們的經常性淨利，但會改善我們損益表（P&L）的品質。

So as I was saying, total revenue almost BRL37 billion, up by 14% year over year. And I would like to highlight the entire revenue line. I start with insurance, pension plans, and savings bonds. The indicator is 20.4% growth year on year, even surpassing the guidance. But the guidance, as you recall, is annual. So I'm not going to go over that again. But we reiterate our guidance. And moreover, I must say that my expectation is that we will be in the middle and upwards in terms of the guidance.

如我所說，總收入接近 370 億雷亞爾（BRL37 billion），年增 14%。我想強調整體收入線。我先從保險、退休金計畫與儲蓄債券（savings bonds）開始，該指標年增 20.4%，甚至超越指引（guidance）。但各位也記得，指引是以年度為基礎，因此我不再重複說明。不過，我們重申指引。此外，我必須說，我的預期是我們將落在指引區間的中段偏上。

Like I said, last quarter, I mean, our confidence level remains the same. We are in the right track. And again, I'm talking about cause and effect. I mean, fee and commission's income was up 6.2% year over year in the quarter. That is usually the worst quarter for the financial industry. I mean, the bulk of the volume is in the fourth quarter. So in the first quarter, volume is down. And fee income is down as well, but despite all that, we continue to grow.

如我上季所說，我們的信心程度維持不變，我們走在正確的軌道上。同樣以因果來看，本季手續費與佣金收入年增 6.2%。第一季通常是金融業最淡的一季，因為大部分的量都在第四季；因此第一季量會下降，手續費收入也會下降。但即便如此，我們仍持續成長。

And our NII is the highlight, of course, that -- we have -- all of the other lines are growing. But the main highlight is NII. We grew 16.4% year over year, quarter on quarter 4.2%. And this should continue to drive our growth over time.

而我們的淨利息收入（NII）當然是亮點——其他各項也都在成長，但最主要的亮點是 NII。我們年增 16.4%，季增 4.2%。這應會持續在時間推移中驅動我們的成長。

And you also notice that we have perennial performance, and our discourses are also perennial. There is no change in the discourse, I mean, except for, Bradsaúde's recent announcement. And I'll elaborate a bit more on every single topic.

各位也會注意到，我們的表現具有持續性（perennial），我們的論述也同樣具有持續性。除了近期 Bradsaúde 的公告之外，我們的論述沒有改變。我會針對每個主題再多做一些說明。

I mean, cause and effect, again, client NII, market NII stems from our activity. Our activity is quite robust. Our origination capacity is robust. And why is it that we are originating loans? Well, it starts with our credit business unit with a very robust loan portfolio management, a new pricing area, working with client segments and pricing in accordance. And we look at all of the cohorts to see, to look at pricing intervals.

再次回到因果：客戶端 NII、以及市場端 NII 來自於我們的業務活動。我們的業務活動相當強勁，我們的承作/放款發起能力（origination capacity）也很強。那為什麼我們能發起放款？起點在於我們的授信業務單位，具備非常強健的放款組合管理能力，以及新的定價部門，與各客群協作並據此定價。我們也檢視所有批次（cohorts），以觀察定價區間。

And we are also delivering better experiences for every client segment. And the approach is very individual through our channels, very personalized. And this has made a difference in our distribution. And that's why we are growing significantly on the asset line, on the liability side, on the side of fee income and distribution of insurance products and [consortia]. And this certainly leads to this margin that was up 16.4%, as I said before, and expanded -- we increase, I mean, our expanded LOP. Cost of risk was 3.5%, and our total NII net of provisions was BRL10.4 billion.

我們也為各客群提供更好的體驗，透過各通路採取非常個別化、非常客製化的方式。這讓我們的分銷表現出現差異化。因此我們在資產端、負債端、手續費收入，以及保險產品與[consortia]的分銷上都顯著成長。這也確實帶動了我先前提到年增 16.4% 的利差，並擴張——也就是說，我們提升了擴張後的 LOP。風險成本為 3.5%，而扣除提存後的總 NII 為 104 億雷亞爾（BRL10.4 billion）。

When we look at client NII, our NII was up a 4.1%. Our expectation is to have NIM around 9%, very stable NIM. But in addition to growing 16.3% year on year that without the calendar effect that impacted this quarter, instead of growing 3% quarter on quarter, we would have grown 5% quarter on quarter instead of 2% growth.

當我們看客戶端 NII，我們的 NII 上升了 4.1%。我們的預期是淨利差（NIM）約在 9% 左右，NIM 非常穩定。但除了年增 16.3% 之外，若排除本季受到的日曆效應（calendar effect），我們本來季增會是 5%，而不是 3%；也就是說，本來會是 5% 的季增，而不是 2% 的成長。

We believe that our NII will continue to grow. I mean, this is the line that we expect to see going forward. And I would also like to draw your attention to market NII that reached BRL600 million. Again, cause and effect. It was not by chance. It grew because of all of the origination from the client desk. And this is also something that comes from trading, energy, and ALM. So we have a very good team of professionals that take advantage of all the opportunities.

我們相信 NII 將持續成長。也就是說，這是我們預期未來會看到的走勢。我也想請各位注意市場端 NII，達到 6 億雷亞爾（BRL600 million）。同樣是因果關係，這不是偶然；它之所以成長，是因為客戶端交易台（client desk）的所有承作/發起所帶動。這也來自交易（trading）、能源，以及資產負債管理（ALM）。因此我們有一支非常優秀的專業團隊，能把握所有機會。

But our ALM is here. These are not like one-off situations. But in fact, we are maintaining steady deliveries and good treasury deliveries throughout the year. And then I was talking about the calendar effect, and the same thing applies to client NII net of provision. And this impacts the bottom line. It was down by 4.5 -- I mean, BRL10.6 billion. It went down to BRL9.8 billion.

但我們的 ALM 在這裡；這些並不是一次性的情況。事實上，我們全年都維持穩定的交付，以及良好的財資（treasury）表現。接著我提到日曆效應，同樣也適用於扣除提存後的客戶端 NII，並影響到最終盈餘。該數字下降了 4.5——也就是說，從 106 億雷亞爾（BRL10.6 billion）降至 98 億雷亞爾（BRL9.8 billion）。

But excluding the calendar effect that we would have grown 1% quarter on quarter, the number would go to BRL10.3 billion. But now I'll give you another effect. I mean, we have here -- we broke down our provision costs for wholesale LLM, LLP, and mass market LLP. There was a higher growth. There were some provisions here, but there was one case that represents the bulk of the volume.

但若排除日曆效應，我們本來會季增1%，那麼數字就會到達103億巴西雷亞爾。但現在我再給各位另一個影響因素。也就是說，我們在這裡——把批發業務LLM、LLP，以及大眾市場LLP的提存成本拆分出來。當中有較高的成長。有一些提存發生在這裡，但有一個個案占了大部分的量。

So if we exclude that, the NII, I mean, the NII net of provisions will be higher. It doesn't mean that this is a recurring thing. I mean, the numbers show the fact that we're more conservative even though there is a negotiation on their way. And then we see that we have a good chance of collecting.

所以如果把那個排除掉，NII——也就是扣除提存後的NII——會更高。這不代表這是經常性發生的事情。數字反映出，即使目前仍在談判進行中，我們仍採取更保守的作法。接著我們也看到，我們有很好的機會可以收回。

But also here I mentioned -- I mean, mass market LLP, but also this includes other segments. But look at the indicators. We are growing BRL500 million, BRL300 million, BRL400 million quarter on quarter and we drop provisions as the portfolio grows. Our portfolio grows and then we put on more provisions. And this is the effect of the 4,966. I mean, we have a portfolio, and this applies to the entire market. Because in the past, in the 2,682, in M+1, we were at break-even -- I mean, vis-a-vis LLP or the provisions in place.

另外我在這裡提到——也就是大眾市場LLP，但這也包含其他分部。不過請看指標。我們季增5億、3億、4億巴西雷亞爾，同時在投資組合成長時降低提存。投資組合成長，然後我們再增加提存。而這就是4,966的影響。也就是說，我們有一個投資組合，而這適用於整個市場。因為過去在2,682之下，在M+1我們是損益兩平——也就是相對於LLP或既有提存而言。

But with 4,966, we have portfolios that only reach break even at M+5 or M+6. And this is the case of credit cards. We are growing well in auto, funding, in payroll, deductible loan, in micro, and SMEs. Therefore, our portfolio is growing and we will certainly call for further provisions. It doesn't mean to say that, okay, you are provisioning just because the NPL portfolio is increasing, but look at the numbers in these boxes down below -- 1.3%, 1.4%, 1.3%, 1.4%. This is what we monitor quarter on quarter.

但在4,966之下，我們的投資組合要到M+5或M+6才會達到損益兩平。信用卡就是這種情況。我們在汽車貸款、資金供應、薪資扣繳貸款、可扣抵貸款、微型金融以及中小企業方面都成長良好。因此，我們的投資組合正在成長，我們當然也會需要進一步提存。這並不表示，好吧，你提存只是因為不良貸款（NPL）投資組合在增加；但請看下面這些方框裡的數字——1.3%、1.4%、1.3%、1.4%。這就是我們逐季監控的內容。

If you look at the full earnings release, there, we have a presentation very much like this with any long numbers for this indicator. But quarter on quarter, these are the figures, so we should grow cost of risk here. So it will continue to perform like this. It may grow BRL500 million or BRL300 million, but we are putting on provisions when we are stacking up portfolios. And this certainly leads us to this NII.

如果你看完整的財報公告，我們在那裡有一份非常類似的簡報，並提供這個指標的較長期數列。不過就逐季而言，數字就是這些，因此我們的風險成本在這裡應該會上升。所以它會持續呈現這樣的表現。它可能增加5億或3億巴西雷亞爾，但當我們堆疊投資組合時，我們就會增加提存。而這也確實把我們帶到這個NII的結果。

This is the picture we see. But we are very confident about everything we are doing. And I will also talk about the quality of credit. I mean, our portfolio reached almost BRL1.1 billion, growing 8.4% year over year. However, the FX effect of -- the appreciation of the BRL had a significant impact as well, especially large corporates and SMEs. But net of this effect, we would be growing 9.5% year on year, even if we look at the entire market looking at moderate risk appetite. I mean, individuals, 9.5%. I mean, cause and effect, once again. And this stems from a very good work with clients and penetration and new experiences.

這就是我們看到的圖像。但我們對正在做的一切都非常有信心。我也會談到信用品質。也就是說，我們的投資組合接近1.1兆巴西雷亞爾，年增8.4%。然而，匯率效應——巴西雷亞爾升值——也帶來了顯著影響，特別是在大型企業與中小企業方面。但扣除這個影響後，我們的年增會是9.5%，即使放在整體市場、以溫和風險偏好來看也是如此。也就是個人金融，9.5%。再次強調因果關係。而這源自於我們與客戶之間非常好的經營、滲透，以及新的體驗。

SMEs, 14.4% growth year on year. And again, here I will just elaborate further in a moment. And large corporates, it really fluctuates BRL10 billion up or down because we have short-term portfolios and I will draw your attention to some highlights that are part of our plan. And again, I repeat, cause and effect.

中小企業年增14.4%。同樣地，我稍後會再多補充一些。至於大型企業，因為我們有短期投資組合，所以它確實會上下波動100億巴西雷亞爾；我也會請各位注意一些屬於我們計畫的重點。再次重申，因果關係。

We are not growing auto loans for mere chance. We are growing in auto loans because we had a careful planning. We drew up a very detailed diagnosis of the market where we operate in new quadrants, like new vehicles, heavy vehicles. We have a very small stake in new vehicles and semi-new and used cars.

我們不是碰巧才讓汽車貸款成長。我們之所以在汽車貸款成長，是因為我們做了審慎的規劃。我們對所處市場做了非常細緻的診斷，並在新的象限中運作，例如新車、重型車。我們在新車、以及次新車與二手車的市占都非常小。

I mean, used would be much older cars. And semi new vehicles is the largest market in Brazil in absolute terms. Therefore, we looked at all market possibilities. And we also looked at the experience of our managers, dealers, and clients. And we realized we hadn't changed because we had two platforms: one for account holders and non-account holders with the dealers. So we changed the platform. And this was part of our transformation process.

也就是說，二手車會是更老的車；而次新車在巴西以絕對量來看是最大的市場。因此，我們檢視了所有市場可能性。我們也檢視了我們的經理人、經銷商與客戶的體驗。我們發現我們一直沒有改變，因為我們有兩個平台：一個給有帳戶的客戶，一個給沒有帳戶、透過經銷商的客戶。所以我們更換了平台。這也是我們轉型流程的一部分。

We now have a single platform that brings a much, much better experience to our dealers and our managers, and above all, to our clients. It's much more efficient in operating terms, and it's also much more efficient when it comes to pricing. And very quick decision in terms of using the loan machine and pricing.

我們現在有一個單一平台，能為經銷商與我們的經理人帶來更好、好得多的體驗，最重要的是也讓客戶體驗更佳。在營運面更有效率，在定價方面也更有效率。而且在使用授信引擎與定價決策上非常快速。

And within this interval of RAR, that ranges between 20% to 28%, which is satisfactory to us. Therefore, growth comes because we have commercial capacity, we have a good penetration base throughout our customer base and also with the dealers, but now with a much more competitive platform where we can choose our risk more assertively. That's why we're growing 7.3% quarter on quarter. So if we keep on growing at this pace, and the same thing with other portfolios, I mean, then we have more provisions according to 4,966 because we have to stack up this intermediation margin over time.

在RAR介於20%到28%的區間內，這對我們而言是令人滿意的。因此，成長來自於我們具備商業能力，我們在客戶基礎以及經銷商端都有良好的滲透基礎；而現在透過更具競爭力的平台，我們能更精準地選擇風險。這就是為什麼我們季增7.3%。所以如果我們持續以這個速度成長，其他投資組合也是同樣道理——那麼依照4,966，我們就會有更多提存，因為我們必須隨時間堆疊這個中介利差。

And credit cards is no different from what we showed before. It is growing 10.6% year on year -- above all, with high income, with 18.6% growth our payroll deduction. If you look at the history, you will notice that here in payroll deductible loans, we were growing around 5% year on year. Now we posted 8.3% growth year on year, 3.2% quarter on quarter, and the portfolio reached BRL470 billion. And I'll talk about the private sector in a moment.

信用卡也不例外，與我們先前展示的相同。它年增10.6%——尤其是在高收入客群；我們的薪資扣繳貸款成長18.6%。如果你看歷史，你會注意到在薪資扣繳貸款方面，我們過去年增大約5%。現在我們年增8.3%、季增3.2%，投資組合達到4,700億巴西雷亞爾。我稍後會談到民營部門。

But INSS made different changes and pushed the market down. So it's slightly lower like at 40%. So the market started to resume production just like we did. That's why here we're not posting growth in this portfolio. And why? Because we have a very broad portfolio and all of the settlements occur on a monthly basis. But overallm we are growing and we will grow in INSS. But on the private sector, we grew almost 43% year on year. And in the past quarter, 31% approximately.

但INSS做了不同的調整，並把市場往下推。因此它略低，大約在40%左右。所以市場開始恢復放款，就像我們一樣。這就是為什麼我們在這個投資組合上沒有呈現成長。為什麼？因為我們的投資組合非常龐大，而且所有結清都是按月發生。但整體而言，我們正在成長，而且我們也會在INSS方面成長。不過在民營部門，我們年增接近43%；而在上一季，大約成長31%。

You should recall that we said that we will accelerate on the private sector once we have -- we're totally certain that all of the agreements have been made between the banks and data private and that's what we did. Also, being more selective in terms of selecting clients that are more in tune with our risk adjustment. I mean, our portfolio adjusted to risk. In our case, we are talking about slightly over 4% of NPL overnight. So we are performing quite well in these portfolios.

你應該記得我們說過，一旦我們——完全確定銀行與資料隱私之間的所有協議都已完成——我們就會在民營部門加速，而我們確實這麼做了。同時，在挑選更符合我們風險調整的客戶方面也更具選擇性。也就是說，我們的投資組合是經風險調整的。在我們的情況下，我們談的是隔夜NPL略高於4%。因此，我們在這些投資組合上的表現相當不錯。

And in the general payroll deductible loan portfolio, the market posts around 2.97% growth, if I'm not mistaken, whereas we have 2.4% in the overall NPL portfolio. So everything is under control.

而在整體薪資扣繳貸款投資組合中，市場大約成長2.97%（如果我沒記錯的話），而我們整體NPL投資組合是2.4%。所以一切都在掌控之中。

And also, working capital that grew 16.3% year on year, I mean, it's here -- large corporates and SMEs.But look at this one: government-backed lines: FGI and FGO. Last year, we had 26% of the entire production. And I showed you that number last quarter of the entire FGI and FGO production. But by the end of the year, by December 31, we start counting our production numbers again.

另外，營運資金年增16.3%，也就是在這裡——大型企業與中小企業。但請看這個：政府擔保額度：FGI與FGO。去年，我們占整體承作量的26%。我在上一季也向各位展示了整體FGI與FGO承作量的那個數字。但到了年底、12月31日，我們會重新開始計算我們的承作量數字。

By the end of March, we ended up the month with 20.6% of production share. So we are market leaders right now. Obviously, we have very good competitors in the market. And competition is good because it pushes you further. So the competition counts. And one bank is putting pressure on the other one. And it's a very good dispute and it's positive for the entire market and also for the companies.

到3月底，我們以20.6%的承作占比結束該月。所以我們目前是市場領導者。當然，市場上也有非常優秀的競爭對手。而競爭是好事，因為它會推動你更進一步。所以競爭很重要。一家銀行會對另一家銀行形成壓力。這是一場非常良性的競爭，對整個市場以及企業都是正面的。

But here, we show you the growth of our portfolio. We grew almost 81% year over year, which means that here we didn't grow too much because these are portfolios with less guarantees or not too secure. We are not obsessed to be leaders, but what we want and what I tell my team and -- a few days ago, I reiterated that what we want is risk-adjusted return. This is what we want, risk-adjusted return, certainly with scale based on these lines. But we also want to expand the relationship we have with these clients -- micro and small, medium-sized companies.

但在這裡，我們向各位展示我們投資組合的成長。我們年增接近81%，這表示我們在這裡其實沒有成長得太過，因為這些是擔保較少或安全性不那麼高的投資組合。我們並不執著於成為領導者，但我們想要的——也是我告訴團隊的——幾天前我也再次強調——我們想要的是風險調整後報酬。這就是我們要的：風險調整後報酬，當然也會在這些產品線上追求規模。但我們也希望擴大與這些客戶——微型與小型、中型企業——之間的關係。

So we are very confident about everything we're doing. We are keeping our appetite with Agribusiness. And again, our Agribusiness cohorts in 2025 have a lot more guarantees. And the same thing goes for 2024. They are much better. We are seeing a bit more stress in previous cohorts, especially in the south of Brazil because of the rain and then drought and in large companies, small, mid-sized companies and also individuals. They renegotiated their debts and the banks gave them a great spirit in general a few years.

因此，我們對我們正在做的一切都非常有信心。我們持續維持對農業綜合業務（Agribusiness）的風險偏好。而且再次強調，我們在 2025 年的農業綜合業務批次（cohorts）有更多的擔保。同樣的情況也適用於 2024 年；它們的表現好得多。我們在較早期的批次看到一些壓力，特別是在巴西南部，因為先是降雨、接著乾旱；而且在大型公司、小型與中型公司以及個人客戶身上也都有所反映。他們重新協商了債務，而銀行在過去幾年整體上也給了他們相當寬鬆的條件。

And this grace period is now over. And then what happens is that once that grace period is over, certain crops are not yet ready or mature enough to pay the debt. That's why I'm saying that in the Agribusiness, things are still not back to normal.

而這段寬限期現在已經結束。接著會發生的是，一旦寬限期結束，某些作物尚未準備好或成熟到足以償還債務。這就是我說在農業綜合業務方面，情況仍未回到正常的原因。

Still, speaking about the portfolio are over 90 NPL is flat and now I'll bring you another another fact here. Our stage three goes down to 7.6%. Our restructured portfolio between December '23 and March of '26 was down by BRL14 billion. But when we look at this problematic asset, it was down by BRL15.7 billion, so reaching 3.1%.

另外，談到投資組合，逾期超過 90 天（NPL over 90）維持持平。現在我再補充另一個事實：我們的第三階段（stage three）降至 7.6%。我們的重組投資組合在 2023 年 12 月到 26 年 3 月之間減少了 140 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL）。但當我們看這些問題資產時，則減少了 157 億巴西雷亞爾，降至 3.1%。

You may ask, so how big do you think this portfolio would be? I think that a portfolio around 2.9% and 3.1% would be just a good size for us. So certainly, it will start to be more stable going forward.

你可能會問，那你認為這個投資組合應該有多大？我認為大約在 2.9% 到 3.1% 的投資組合規模，對我們來說就是一個合適的水位。因此，往後它肯定會開始變得更穩定。

But down below, we are showing this chart every quarter. We've talked about our secure portfolio. So we went from 59.3% in December at the end of last quarter to almost 61% of our entire secure loan portfolio. But look at -- if you look at individuals, it's almost 70%. That means that we are operating quite well and we are very confident about the quality of our portfolio.

另外在下方，我們每一季都會展示這張圖表。我們談過我們的有擔保投資組合（secure portfolio）。因此，我們從去年第四季末 12 月的 59.3%，提升到接近 61% 的整體有擔保放款投資組合。但請看——如果你看個人客戶，幾乎是 70%。這表示我們的營運表現相當不錯，而且我們對投資組合的品質非常有信心。

And look at stage two. Stage two is growing slightly. And why? NPL overnight is flat, but the gray line refers to micro and SMEs. And where is it growing? It's growing in government-backed lines: FGI and FGO. And why is it growing? Because most companies are paying their debt. But there is a chunk that the grace period is over and so they're not paying. So even until the grace period ends, and for those who are growing the portfolio at the pace I showed you before, 80% growth, it puts pressure naturally -- puts pressure over NPL over 90. So even though with 4,966, even though the expected loss is lower, it's still moving on stage two.

再看第二階段（stage two）。第二階段略有成長。為什麼？隔夜不良貸款（NPL overnight）持平，但灰色線代表微型企業與中小企業（SMEs）。它在哪裡成長？它在政府擔保額度中成長：FGI 與 FGO。為什麼會成長？因為大多數公司都在償還債務，但有一部分在寬限期結束後就沒有付款。因此，即使直到寬限期結束，對於那些以我先前展示的速度擴張投資組合（80% 成長）的業務，也會自然地——對逾期超過 90 天的 NPL 造成壓力。所以即便採用 4,966（準則/模型）後，即使預期損失較低，它仍在第二階段移動。

So what happens here? I mean, FGO, I mean, when you have to start paying is 190 day of grace period and an additional five days. So the FGI period is after 90 days, you have to start paying, and then you'll have 30 days, and so another 90 days. So there is nothing different. And it's flat individuals and large corporates performing quite well.

那這裡會發生什麼？我的意思是，以 FGO 來說，你必須開始付款的時間點是 190 天的寬限期再加 5 天。至於 FGI，則是在 90 天後你必須開始付款，接著你會有 30 天，然後再加上另一個 90 天。因此並沒有什麼不同。個人客戶與大型企業則維持持平，表現相當良好。

Another interesting thing is that the coverage ratio of stage three is growing. I mean, you have a mismatch between stage three and stage one, stage two to stage three. So there is a transfer between stage. So I was referring to the former rural proposal that could be here as well. They are in cured operations. And it could be -- it could just migrate to restructure operations with a bit more guarantee. So you have some movement in the 4,966 that we believe are absolutely in line with what it should be.

另一個有趣的點是，第三階段的覆蓋率（coverage ratio）正在上升。也就是說，你在第三階段與第一階段、第二階段到第三階段之間存在不匹配。因此在各階段之間會有轉移。我先前提到的舊有農村提案也可能在這裡出現。它們屬於已恢復（cured）的作業，並且可能——可能只是遷移到具有更多擔保的重組作業。因此，在我們認為完全符合應有狀況的 4,966 之下，你會看到一些變動。

And there's another down note here in the footnote that talks about write-offs. The write-off was up in absolute terms. It was also up in all the quarters. It goes up or down depending on the cohorts that arrived and the mix of the cohort. But there is only 1% relative terms.

另外在註腳中還有一點提到核銷（write-offs）。核銷在絕對金額上升，也在所有季度中上升。它會隨著到期批次（cohorts）的到來以及批次組合而上升或下降。但相對而言只有 1%。

I mean, you can challenge me quarter on quarter. Because when you have a better cohort is 0.9%. When it's a bit worse is 1.1%. And when it's flat, I mean, here -- and I've told you that before when we adopted the 4,966, we adopted the first -- the same write-off criteria we had in the previous system, so we didn't change anything. So we are very much confident about everything we are doing in our portfolio.

我的意思是，你可以逐季來挑戰我。因為當你有較好的批次時是 0.9%；稍差一些時是 1.1%；而當它持平時，我是說，在這裡——而且我以前也告訴過你，當我們採用 4,966 時，我們採用的是——與先前系統相同的核銷標準，所以我們沒有改變任何東西。因此，我們對我們在投資組合中所做的一切都非常有信心。

And I've been monitoring this very closely. I'm looking at all the cohorts and I'm looking at that with the -- with our team of our credit business unit, with the risk team, and the teams for every customer segment. We have a price rating and also a rating that measures stress level, over 30 [94], which is our best proxy. And all of them are within the foreseen interval.

而且我一直非常密切地監控這件事。我在看所有批次，也和——和我們授信業務單位的團隊、風險團隊，以及各客群的團隊一起檢視。我們有一個價格評等（price rating），也有一個衡量壓力程度的評等，超過 30 [94]，這是我們最好的替代指標。而它們全部都在預期的區間內。

Well, but you could have had in October like one issue that was escaped a little bit. But we immediately look at all the models and we make adjustments and policies accordingly, if need be. Therefore, we are very confident in terms of the quality of our assets. And again, I see growth in credit risk but nothing apart from that.

當然，你可能在 10 月遇到過某個問題，稍微有點漏掉。但我們會立刻檢視所有模型，並在需要時相應調整。我們因此在資產品質方面非常有信心。而且再次強調，我看到信用風險有所成長，但除此之外沒有其他異常。

And then fee income, it was up 6.2% year over year. And this is a quarter that it's not only weak for banks or the financial system. But we are leaders in the Consortia business and that is a very important line. We had almost BRL4 billion in assets delivered in Q1 '26. And our growth of these fees amount at almost 20% year on year in custody; and brokerage services, 15.5% growth.

接著是手續費收入（fee income），年增 6.2%。而這一季不僅對銀行或金融體系而言偏弱，但我們在合會（Consortia）業務上是領導者，這是一條非常重要的業務線。我們在 26 年第一季交付了接近 40 億巴西雷亞爾的資產。而我們在託管（custody）的費用收入年增接近 20%；經紀服務（brokerage services）成長 15.5%。

And this is recurring. This is the result of our activity. It's not at random that this happens. It's a lot of hard work, new experiences that we are offering to our clients and in capital markets. And we've just had a press conference and they [turned all those tasks] about market expectations for the capital markets. And they claimed, oh, you grew more than 60% your investment banking activity. But I'll give you more information on that.

而且這是可持續的（recurring）。這是我們經營活動的結果，並非偶然發生。這來自大量的努力、我們在資本市場為客戶提供的新體驗。我們剛開了一場記者會，他們[把所有那些工作都轉向]談資本市場的市場預期。他們說，喔，你們的投資銀行業務成長超過 60%。但我會再提供更多資訊。

We have rankings for investment banking. Our fixed income team grew. We have been originating or producing a lot more, and this is just not growing by chance. It's growing because there was a lot more origination and more ability of placement in a very demanding market. Last year, we were the second bank in origination of fixed income securities in the Brazilian market, according to ANBIMA.

我們在投資銀行有排名。我們的固定收益團隊成長了。我們一直在承作或產出更多業務，而這並不是碰巧成長。它之所以成長，是因為在一個要求很高的市場中，有更多的承作來源（origination）以及更強的承銷/配售能力。根據 ANBIMA，去年我們在巴西市場固定收益證券承作來源方面排名第二。

Last year, we had 14.1% market share. We entered Q1 '26 closing 69% growth, still ranking second, but with 22% of market share, fixed income origination. So we have a lot of traction across the organization in different segments of clients.

去年我們的市占率是 14.1%。進入 26 年第一季，我們以 69% 的成長收官，仍排名第二，但固定收益承作來源的市占率達到 22%。因此，我們在組織內、在不同客群的不同業務領域都具有很強的動能。

Operating expenses absolutely under control. 7.8% growth year on year, a 4.6% decrease quarter on quarter, and a [12-year] retention as we always do to personnel and administrative expenses, up 5.4% in year on year minus 8.8% quarter on quarter. And of course, we have profit sharing and payment of variable compensation. And that's very positive. If you consider earnings release, you'll see that personnel expenses, the negative [rate is] flat except for variable compensation, which is good, right?

營運費用完全在控制之中。年增 7.8%，季減 4.6%，並且如同我們一貫作法，對人員與行政費用進行[12 年]留存（retention），年增 5.4%、季減 8.8%。當然，我們有盈餘分配與變動薪酬的支付。這非常正面。若你看財報新聞稿（earnings release），你會看到人員費用的負[增長率]持平，除了變動薪酬之外；而變動薪酬增加是好事，對吧？

And in administrative expenses, if you look at the detail, you'll see that transactional expenses which result in processing because we have high activity, that is growing. Now rent, transportation of money, bills, et cetera, all of these expenses are decreasing quarter on quarter and year on year. We continue with our discipline of reviewing our footprint. In this quarter, 238 more service points reduced.

在行政費用方面，如果你看細項，你會看到因為我們活動量高而帶來的交易性費用（transactional expenses），也就是處理成本，正在成長。至於租金、現金運送、帳單等，這些費用無論季比或年比都在下降。我們持續以紀律檢視我們的據點布局。本季又減少了 238 個服務據點。

And then the insurance group. Like I said in the beginning, our Insurance business is delivering an ROE of almost 22%, BRL2.8 billion in net income, 13% increase year on year with BRL29 billion of insurance premiums (inaudible). The result of the insurance operation includes the whole insurance activity plus Bradsaúde, Bradesco Healthcare. The whole insurance group brought us this result.

接著是保險集團。如同我一開始所說，我們的保險業務交出接近 22% 的股東權益報酬率（ROE），淨利為 28 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 13%，保費收入為 290 億巴西雷亞爾（聽不清）。保險營運結果包含整體保險活動以及 Bradsaúde（Bradesco Healthcare，布拉德斯科醫療保健）。整個保險集團為我們帶來了這個成果。

Operations growing 20.4% year over year. And the highlight goes to the increase in the operational result, 22.1%. Practically two-thirds of the result presented in Q1, which is very, very positive for us. And our technical provisions continue to grow almost 10%, reaching BRL455 billion. So we're happy and pleased with everything that is happening in the Insurance group and other affiliates in payments organizations and what they're bringing to us.

營運年增 20.4%。亮點在於營運結果增加 22.1%。幾乎占第一季所呈現結果的三分之二，這對我們非常、非常正面。而我們的技術準備金（technical provisions）持續成長，接近 10%，達到 4,550 億巴西雷亞爾。因此，我們對保險集團以及其他關係企業在支付機構等領域的進展，以及它們為我們帶來的貢獻，都感到滿意與欣慰。

Now talking about capital, representing our pro forma capital, Tier 1 growing to 14.5% and common equity 12.7%. So everything is informed. So you can see the movement of Bradsaúde, the Healthcare business. It brought a positive result, a positive impact. If you have questions, our team is available. The IR and the finance teams are available to explain all of the details regarding this movement we took that put us in a great comfort zone regarding our capital.

現在談到資本，代表我們的備考資本（pro forma capital），第一級資本（Tier 1）提升至14.5%，普通股權益為12.7%。因此一切都已反映在內。你們可以看到 Bradsaúde（醫療健康業務）的變動，帶來了正面的結果與正面影響。如有問題，我們的團隊隨時可提供協助。投資人關係（IR）與財務團隊也可就我們採取的這項變動之所有細節進行說明，該變動使我們在資本方面處於非常舒適的區間。

We did not change our expectation. With it or without it, we would continue down our path. [Always] in Q1, there is a slightly greater capital reduction. This was expected, and after that, we would stabilize an IoC interest on capital for the year.

我們沒有改變我們的預期。有它或沒有它，我們都會沿著既定路徑前進。[一如既往]在第一季，資本會有略大幅度的下降。這是預期之內，之後我們會在全年把資本的 IoC（資本利息）穩定下來。

And here, our transformation movement. Like I said in the beginning, I did a big analysis about transformation in the past quarter. I won't repeat a lot. But I'll just bring you some more information. I spoke about the new auto financing platform. I'm not going to repeat that. There are a number of innovations deployed with intensive AI use. I don't need to go over all of them.

接著是我們的轉型進程。如同我一開始所說，我在上一季對轉型做了大量分析，我不會重複太多。但我會補充一些資訊。我談過新的汽車融資平台，我不再重述。已部署多項創新並密集使用 AI，我也不需要逐一說明。

What I mean to stress is that we accelerated in this path and we're investing a lot. This is another tool we have at treasury, Easy Trade. For SMEs, small clients, they can connect directly and do their operations using the app. And I draw your attention to three more characteristics.

我想強調的是，我們在這條路徑上加速前進並投入大量資源。這是我們在資金部（treasury）的另一項工具 Easy Trade。針對中小企業（SMEs）與小型客戶，他們可以直接連線並透過 App 進行操作。我也請各位注意另外三項特點。

You will recall that I showed BIA for private in the past quarter with a very high accuracy level. Well, that increased to 94% first contract resolution. So we gain experience. We gain productivity and we improve customer experience. We continue to have upgrades for Prime and Principal clients.

各位會記得我在上一季展示過私人銀行（private）的 BIA，準確度非常高。現在首次合約解決率提升到94%。因此我們累積經驗、提升生產力並改善客戶體驗。我們也持續為 Prime 與 Principal 客戶進行升級。

Can check and compared with the previous earnings release. And in the first quarter, we upgraded more than 500,000 clients and we continue to open offices for Principal and for Prime and digital retail. Last year, we closed with 19 million fully digital clients; in 2026, 28 million. And we were pointing to this increasing trend. So we are very confident and we accelerated in the transformation movement, bringing productivity and important gains to the organization on all sides on the side of efficiency and on the side of customer experience.

各位可以與前一次財報發布內容對照。在第一季，我們升級了超過50萬名客戶，並持續為 Principal、Prime 以及數位零售開設據點。去年我們以1,900萬名完全數位化客戶作結；到2026年為2,800萬。我們一直指向這個上升趨勢。因此我們非常有信心，並加速推動轉型，為組織在各方面帶來生產力與重要收益——無論在效率面或客戶體驗面。

So my conclusions: a strong operating result in Q1 '26. This is what we're seeing. We're very pleased with the result. We're growing almost 8% quarter over quarter and growing consistently, almost 15% year on year. Technology, I spoke about it. I will not repeat this. The new coin segmentation always bringing NPS up in offering good experiences. Of course, this supports traction and run for bank risk appetite, like I said in the beginning, with a more conservative approach.

因此我的結論是：2026年第一季營運成果強勁。這就是我們所看到的。我們對結果非常滿意，季對季成長接近8%，年對年持續成長、接近15%。科技方面我已談過，不再重複。新的客群分層（segmentation）持續透過提供良好體驗來提升 NPS。當然，這也支持動能並符合銀行的風險偏好（risk appetite），如我一開始所說，我們採取更保守的做法。

We continue to have a more moderate risk appetite. But we continue to have traction. We will deliver our expectations in the guidance. We are competitive. We remain competitive in those lines where we feel this risk appetite. So I'm very convinced of all this.

我們仍維持較為溫和的風險偏好，但動能依舊。我們將達成指引（guidance）中的預期。我們具備競爭力，並在我們認為符合此風險偏好的業務線上保持競爭力。因此我對這一切非常有信心。

Another thing I'd like to stress is our net income -- not only the bank and the affiliates in the insurance group in general posting consistent growth, with our commitment to gradual and sustained net income growth step by step. We'll continue to improve our competitiveness in the short and long term.

我還想強調另一點：我們的淨利——不僅是銀行本體，保險集團的關係企業整體也呈現一致的成長；我們承諾以循序漸進、可持續的方式一步一步提升淨利。我們將持續在短期與長期提升競爭力。

And our Bradsaúde, the Healthcare business, is the most complete and comprehensive healthcare ecosystem in Brazil, like I said at the beginning, bringing us an important goodwill that is a brilliant company. A lot more diversified now. And we'll speak more about that.

而我們的 Bradsaúde（醫療健康業務）是巴西最完整、最全面的醫療健康生態系，如我一開始所說，為我們帶來重要的商譽（goodwill），是一家非常出色的公司。現在也更加多元化。我們之後會再多談。

And just for information, we were very proud with The Banker awards in machine learning, mobile, AI. So we got some important awards that -- normally awards that are given and offered to international banks that value technology.

另外提供一則資訊：我們對於《The Banker》在機器學習、行動端、AI 等方面的獎項感到非常自豪。我們獲得了一些重要獎項——這些獎項通常是頒給重視科技的國際銀行。

So I will conclude my presentation, the formal presentation, and I will be available for the Q&A. I have Cassiano Scarpelli, our CFO, CTO; and our dear friend, Andre Carvalho, our IRO. But we also have Bradsaúde.

我將結束我的簡報（正式簡報），接下來我會參與問答。我這邊有我們的 CFO、CTO Cassiano Scarpelli，以及我們的好友、IRO Andre Carvalho。但我們也有 Bradsaúde 的同仁。

We know, just -- we don't ring a bell anymore. We just press a button at B3. But I have my two colleagues online, Carlos Marinelli, CEO of Bradsaúde, and he was the one who pressed the button at B3. He introduced a new listed company. That happened on -- and on Tuesday, you had a press call. And Ney Ferraz Dias, CEO of Bradseg, Bradesco Insurance, replacing Ivan, who moved to the Board of Directors of the bank.

我們知道——我們不再敲鐘了，我們只是在 B3 按一個按鈕。不過我有兩位同事在線上：Bradsaúde 的執行長 Carlos Marinelli，他就是在 B3 按下按鈕的人。他介紹了一家新上市公司。那是在——而在週二，你們也有一場媒體電話會議。以及 Bradseg（Bradesco 保險）的執行長 Ney Ferraz Dias，接替 Ivan；Ivan 已轉任銀行董事會。

And of course, he is supporting the transition of our colleagues Marinelli and Ney Ferraz Dias. Thank you both for joining us.

當然，他也在支持我們同事 Marinelli 與 Ney Ferraz Dias 的交接。感謝兩位加入我們。

Thanks, Marcelo. Thank you, Cassiano. Thank you, Marinelli and Ney. Good day, everyone. (Event Instructions)

謝謝你，Marcelo。謝謝你，Cassiano。也謝謝 Marinelli 和 Ney。各位大家好。（活動說明）

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

Mario Pierry，美國銀行（Bank of America）。

Good morning. Congratulations on the earnings results. You have been delivering very predictable results and in keeping with the guidance you provided. Congrats on the listing of Bradsaúde. Of course, it improved capital quite a lot. I don't think it's no longer an issue for the market, given its level of capital.

早安。恭喜本次獲利表現。你們一直交出非常可預測的結果，並且符合你們提供的指引。也恭喜 Bradsaúde 上市。當然，這大幅改善了資本。我認為以目前的資本水準來看，這對市場而言已不再是問題。

But Noronha, I would like to focus more on NII. The presentation you showed is a big highlight, the growth of NII. But how do you see this growth continuing, given a more moderate risk appetite? And we don't disagree with you. Indeed, the macroeconomic scenario is more uncertain, given the Middle East war.

不過 Noronha，我想更聚焦在 NII（淨利息收入）。你們簡報中強調的一大亮點就是 NII 的成長。但在風險偏好較為溫和的情況下，你如何看待這個成長能否延續？我們也不反對你的看法。確實，考量到中東戰爭，總體經濟情境更不確定。

But I'd like to understand, how do you see NII evolving with a more moderate appetite? And what are the most concerning segments when you look at credit in the next few months?

但我想了解的是，在較為溫和的偏好下，你如何看待 NII 的演變？以及在接下來幾個月觀察信貸時，哪些分項最令人擔憂？

Mario, thank you for the question, and thank you for joining us. Here is what I can tell you. Like I said during the presentation, our risk appetite is more conservative. Because we have some models for some segments of clients, we adjust the model.

Mario，謝謝你的提問，也謝謝你加入我們。我可以這樣說：如同我在簡報中提到，我們的風險偏好更保守。因為我們針對某些客群分項有模型，我們會調整模型。

In our credit policy, we can be more conservative in some credit policies. For example, for Agribusiness, Agribusiness is a very important segment in Brazil. We maintain our risk appetite for the Agribusiness, but maintaining this risk appetite with a policy directed to Agribusiness. And we are looking at certain crops in a certain more traditional clients, but also for others that are potential clients. And we have to see what kind of loan we can offer them and what kind of guarantee we can have.

在我們的授信政策中，我們可以在某些信貸政策上更保守。以農業（Agribusiness）為例，農業是巴西非常重要的分項。我們維持對農業的風險偏好，但會以針對農業的政策來維持這個偏好。我們會觀察特定作物、某些較傳統的客戶，也會看其他潛在客戶；並評估可以提供何種貸款，以及可以取得何種擔保。

It doesn't mean we have less appetite to grow. On the contrary, we have a lot of traction as I showed you. In NII, in the NII net of provisions, we will drive our top line. We are piling up credit but high-quality credit -- governmental backlines, payroll deductible loans.

這不代表我們對成長的意願更低。相反地，如我向各位展示的，我們有很強的動能。在 NII、以及扣除提存後的 NII（NII net of provisions）方面，我們將推動營收端（top line）。我們正在累積信貸，但都是高品質信貸——政府擔保額度、薪資扣繳貸款（payroll deductible loans）。

I also spoke about credit cards with slightly more restrictions to some client segments, as we showed when we presented credit -- the credit portfolio. But we accelerated and we want to do business and post significant growth. It was not by chance that we grew almost 81% in our government-backed lines year over year. This shows that we have an ability to deliver, and this has been piling up NII.

我也談到信用卡，對某些客群分項會有些微更嚴格的限制，正如我們在呈現信貸——信貸組合時所展示的。但我們已加速推進，我們希望拓展業務並實現顯著成長。我們在政府擔保業務線年對年成長近81%並非偶然。這顯示我們具備交付能力，而這也一直在累積 NII。

So I see NII growing with NIM around 9%. As I showed you. And with greater growth, we'll have a little more cost of risk. That's not important. What matters is to have controlled cohorts. And for each modality, we can have the expected loss. And this is our focus. And also grow our loans. This is another growth driver because there's a market and risk-adjusted return is good. And there are some markets that are not delivering this. We don't want to be there. So we are very aware of what we are doing to increase our competitiveness. Okay, Mario?

因此我認為 NII 會持續成長，淨利差（NIM）約在9%，如我向各位展示的。隨著更高的成長，我們的風險成本（cost of risk）會略微上升；那並不重要。重要的是要有受控的同質群組（cohorts）。針對每一種產品/型態（modality），我們都能掌握預期損失（expected loss）。這是我們的重點。同時也要擴大放款。這是另一個成長驅動因素，因為市場存在且風險調整後報酬良好；也有一些市場無法提供這樣的報酬，我們不想待在那裡。因此我們非常清楚自己在做什麼，以提升競爭力。好嗎，Mario？

Now, of course, in the middle market segment, in the wholesale segment, yesterday, Milton spoke about a deconcentration. And also here, we deconcentrated our shareholding or our share in the large companies. I think that the top 10 have 13% of our total number.

當然，在中型市場（middle market）分項、在批發（wholesale）分項，昨天 Milton 談到去集中化（deconcentration）。在這裡我們也降低了在大型企業的持股集中度或曝險占比。我認為前十大客戶占我們總額的13%。

So we have to look at this with a magnifying glass. This is our path. We're both focused on this so that we can continue to make things happen.

因此我們必須用放大鏡來檢視。這就是我們的路徑。我們雙方都專注於此，讓我們能持續推動事情發生。

I'd like to remind you that our portfolio management department works with a living portfolio. And it points out potential default risks for all sizes of companies, full-time comparing with client segment.

我想提醒各位，我們的投資組合管理部門管理的是一個動態（持續更新）的投資組合，並且會針對各種規模的公司指出潛在的違約風險，並持續與客戶分群進行比較。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

Daniel Vaz，Safra。

Thank you,Andre. Good morning. Marcelo, Cassiano, thank you for taking my question. Marcelo, I think that that step-by-step message -- and I'd like to second Mario's words. This has given us a good expectation regarding ROAE. You're close to 16% with the cost of equity. So the bank is not destroying value, as was the case in past years. But your message is of step-by-step approach and being more conservative in terms of risk appetite.

謝謝你，Andre。各位早安。Marcelo、Cassiano，謝謝你們回答我的問題。Marcelo，我認為這個循序漸進的訊息——我也想呼應 Mario 的話——讓我們對 ROAE 有了良好的預期。以權益成本來看，你們接近 16%。因此，銀行並沒有像過去幾年那樣在毀損價值。但你們傳達的訊息是循序漸進，並且在風險偏好上更為保守。

You mentioned a more conservative approach, a more conservative bias after observing a degradation in some of the credit lines. So what could be better than expected beyond credit? Because credit is receiving more attention so that you can again accelerate ROE step by step.

你提到在觀察到部分授信產品線出現惡化後，採取更保守的作法、帶有更保守的偏向。那麼，除了信用之外，還有哪些面向可能優於預期？因為信用正受到更多關注，目的是讓你們能再次循序漸進地加速提升 ROE。

In costs, you're above your peers. And I'd like to understand how and when can you converge to the level of your peers, Santander. It's how when we think about costs in your cost trajectory. It is under more pressure in the short term. When could we expect costs converging to an average close to inflation or less than inflation? What could surprise us in the short term? And could it be costs in 2026, '27?

在成本方面，你們高於同業。我想了解你們如何以及何時能收斂到同業（例如 Santander）的水準。也就是說，當我們看你們的成本走勢時，短期內壓力更大。何時可以期待成本增幅收斂到接近通膨或低於通膨？短期內有什麼可能讓我們感到意外？會不會是在 2026、2027 年的成本表現？

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you for joining us one more time. Well, while you were asking the question, I regretted mentioning that we are more conservative because it's just moderate risk. I meant conservative because in certain models, we are shutting down the faucet. With some policies, we have less risk. And this is the work we do with the credit business unit.

謝謝你，Daniel。也謝謝你再次加入我們。嗯，在你提問的同時，我有點後悔提到我們更保守，因為其實只是風險更為適度。我說保守是因為在某些模型上，我們正在把水龍頭關小。透過一些政策，我們承擔的風險更低。這就是我們與授信業務單位一起做的工作。

This is what we are looking at all the time. So we continue to be accelerated on the side of asset. But please remember, we build our NII, also addressing our liabilities. We reduced our liabilities cost at the bank quite a lot. I also mentioned our treasury that has been very important, delivering even more than expected. So I feel much more certain regarding what we are doing also there.

這是我們一直在看的事情。因此在資產端，我們仍持續加速；但請記得，我們建立淨利息收入（NII）時，也同時處理負債端。我們已大幅降低銀行的負債成本。我也提到我們的資金部（treasury）非常重要，貢獻甚至超出預期。所以我對我們在那一塊所做的事情也更有把握。

The flip side of the story of growth or reduction of expenses is that I think that we are doing our homework really well in terms of cost-to-income ratio. But some line items of administrative expenses have been posting negative growth decrease quarter on quarter and year on year. So in terms of technology costs and transactional activity, you see we have very high activity, so these would grow.

成長或費用下降的另一面是，我認為我們在成本收入比（cost-to-income ratio）方面確實把功課做得很好。不過，部分管理費用科目在季比與年比都呈現負成長（下降）。至於科技成本與交易活動方面，你可以看到我們的活動量非常高，因此這些項目會成長。

The cost of the financial system, we have to pay a couple of things, and that increases. But if you look at the complete presentation on this, you'll see that we're doing quite well. Of course, we still have some more labor claims, solar claims. And these are contingencies that eventually will converge to a lower number. I don't have an expectation that this will happen now. But for 2027, 2028, we will definitely see the impact of the actions we're taking now. So I see that the top line will drive us.

金融體系的成本方面，我們必須支付一些費用，因此會增加。但如果你看完整的簡報，你會看到我們做得相當不錯。當然，我們仍有一些勞動訴訟、以及與太陽能相關的訴訟（solar claims）。這些屬於或有事項，最終會收斂到較低水準。我不預期會立刻發生；但在 2027、2028 年，我們一定會看到現在採取行動所帶來的影響。因此我認為營收端（top line）會帶動我們。

Last quarter, we mentioned that our investment in technology is non-negotiable. Considering OpEx and CapEx, we grew 26% in 2025 investing in technology. So we continue to invest to improve our competitiveness -- focusing on different fronts, but primarily on technology, including cybersecurity, but also to improve customer experience, improve our internal control. delivering a new auto loan platform.

上個季度我們提到，對科技的投資是不可妥協的。考量營運費用（OpEx）與資本支出（CapEx），我們在 2025 年的科技投資成長了 26%。因此我們持續投資以提升競爭力——聚焦不同面向，但主要是科技，包括資安（cybersecurity），同時也改善客戶體驗、強化內部控制，並推出新的汽車貸款平台。

Cassiano, anything to add?

Cassiano，有什麼要補充的嗎？

I guess that you talked about everything. But I'd like to remind you that we're in the middle of the transformation process, so adjusting the footprint. It started two years ago. We still have a footprint adjustment that is still weighing on our expenses, although we have a lot of control. So we also had a change in our procurement with guardrails, so we control expenses.

我想你已經把重點都說到了。不過我想提醒各位，我們正處於轉型過程中，因此在調整據點布局（footprint）。這在兩年前就開始了。我們仍有一些據點調整成本持續反映在費用上，雖然我們控管得很嚴。除此之外，我們也在採購上做了調整並設置管控框架（guardrails），以控制費用。

So there's also the footprint adjustment, and that is important. You mentioned two offenders that will decrease, which are civil and labor claims. That are the result of the footprint adjustment and the adjustments made across the bank. So I believe that we have costs that are adequate for the moment because we are not giving up on investing in technology and in formatting all of the segments and in training our managers so that we can have different value propositions for different segments and also technological transformation for us to become a digital bank.

因此，據點調整也是重要因素。你提到兩個會下降的「主要肇因」，也就是民事與勞動訴訟。這些是據點調整以及全行各項調整的結果。所以我認為，以我們目前所處的階段來看，成本是適當的，因為我們不會放棄對科技的投資，也不會放棄對各個客群的重新定位與塑造，以及對經理人的訓練，讓我們能針對不同客群提供不同的價值主張，同時推動科技轉型，使我們成為一家數位銀行。

That's another important side of our transformation. So I think it's all very adequate to the moment we're living now. Improvements will come. They're part of the plan. We want to. To achieve a low cost-to-income ratio at the end of our transformation process. We've been talking about that, and I continue to say we are in the right direction.

這也是我們轉型的另一個重要面向。所以我認為這一切都非常符合我們當下的情境。改善會到來，這是計畫的一部分，我們也希望如此。在轉型流程結束時，我們希望達到較低的成本收入比。我們一直在談這件事，我也持續認為我們走在正確方向上。

And one last point. And also our effort to consume DTAs, this is very important. We took a stride forward this year. The expected stock of DTAs at the end will be close to the end of 2025 in nominal terms, which increases the tangible assets. It improves our profitability expectation. That's also very important.

最後一點：我們也在努力加速消化遞延所得稅資產（DTA），這非常重要。今年我們向前邁進了一大步。預期期末的 DTA 存量在名目金額上將接近 2025 年底的水準，這會增加有形資產（tangible assets），並改善我們對獲利能力的預期，這也非常重要。

Oh, absolutely. I think you raised an important point. Daniel, it is important that you know that regardless of this event, which actually unlocked the value for our shareholders, like I said, that goodwill. But every month we study our DTAs and the opportunities related to that. For us, the greater the capital, the greater is the growth expectation, and we can bring forward the profits.

完全同意。我認為你提出了一個重要觀點。Daniel，重要的是你要知道，不論這次事件（它確實如我所說，為股東解鎖了價值，也就是那筆商譽 goodwill），我們每個月都會研究我們的 DTA 以及相關機會。對我們而言，資本越多，成長預期就越高，我們也能把獲利提前實現。

And we're always provoked to increase our profits and consume DTAs faster. And we've been doing this with discipline, and we are looking at all of the opportunities we have. Thank you very much.

我們也一直被推動去提高獲利並更快消化 DTA。我們一直以紀律執行，也在檢視所有可用的機會。非常感謝。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

Pedro Leduc，Itaú BBA。

Thank you, Andre, thank you, Noronha, Cassiano. Good morning. I have two questions. My first question is more like a clarification in terms of the capital source that you said you opened 250 bps. Is this net of tax that you have to pay or it needs any other event? That's my first question.

謝謝你，Andre，謝謝你，Noronha、Cassiano。早安。我有兩個問題。第一個問題比較像是釐清：你提到資本來源釋放了 250 個基點（bps）。這是已扣除需要支付的稅負後的淨額嗎？還是需要其他事件才能成立？這是我的第一個問題。

My second question is whether you could tell me what is part of that BRL50 billion? It's no less than those adjustments. This is just related to capital. I'd just like to understand a bit more about that 250 bps if it is net of taxes.

第二個問題是，你能否說明那 500 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL50 billion）包含哪些內容？不僅僅是那些調整。這只是與資本相關。我只是想更了解這 250 個基點是否為稅後淨額。

Well, thank you for your question. Well, the first answer is yes. The closing was April 30, but Cassiano can certainly elaborate more on the answer. But the answer is yes.

謝謝你的提問。第一個答案是：是的。交割日在 4 月 30 日，不過 Cassiano 當然可以補充更詳細的說明；但答案是肯定的。

No, there is nothing else happening. I mean, it became a reality on April 30, and this consists of two major pillars. One is the fact that -- I mean, it's the concept of the company. It's a pure holding company versus an insurance holding. So that capital was part of the 250 bps.

沒有其他事情了。也就是說，它在 4 月 30 日就已成為既成事實，而這包含兩大支柱。第一個是——也就是公司的概念：純控股公司（pure holding company）相對於保險控股（insurance holding）。因此那部分資本構成了這 250 個基點的一部分。

And the second pillar refers to generating tax credits and this generated DTAs. And so you have that effect in the same place. You pay taxes and you offset that with DTAs. These are two basic things we do.

第二個支柱是產生稅務抵減，並因此形成遞延所得稅資產（DTA）。所以你會在同一處看到這個效果：你繳稅，並用 DTA 抵銷。這就是我們做的兩件基本事情。

I mean, we register the operation at market value. This is not accounting; it's just fiscal. You generate payment through DTAs. And the second part has to do with the potential adjustment because this is a pure holding company. So these are the two elements related to the 250 bps. Is that clear?

也就是說，我們以市價登錄這筆交易。這不是會計處理；這只是稅務（fiscal）處理。你透過 DTA 來完成稅款支付。第二部分則與潛在的調整有關，因為這是一家純控股公司。因此，這兩個要素共同構成了這 250 個基點。這樣清楚嗎？

Yes, excellent. Thank you. And my second question is more like BAU. It refers to LLP. I'm getting some inquiries from investors. In mass market, I mean, seasonally speaking, the cost of risk increases a bit. And then there is the corporate case, which is very specific, but we have a lot of news about that.

是的，非常清楚，謝謝。我的第二個問題比較偏向日常營運（BAU），與呆帳提列（LLP）有關。我收到一些投資人的詢問。在大眾市場（mass market）方面，從季節性來看，風險成本會稍微上升。然後還有企業端的案例，非常特定，但我們看到很多相關新聞。

Then investors may ask whether this net [9.7 LLP] would be up in the coming quarters, or you would have any kinds of gains stemming from seasonality in the mass market or if whether whether this is not going to be present in the second quarter if we -- and whether we could see this lighter in the coming quarters.

因此投資人可能會問，接下來幾季這個淨額（[9.7 LLP]）是否會上升？或者在大眾市場是否會因季節性而有任何收益？又或者如果我們——第二季不會出現這種情況？以及未來幾季是否可能看到更輕一些？

Well, in terms of wholesale, in terms of the wholesale LLP, I'm not seeing provisions like that. But eventually, it could happen. I mean, wholesale is like this. It's very -- it fluctuates. You also experience the reverse scenario. But now in terms of the other portfolios, we showed great consistency, 1.3%, 1.4%, 1.3%, 1.4%, consistently and with nominal growth between BRL300 million and BRL500 million per quarter, but we are growing the asset, grew the asset a lot.

就批發銀行（wholesale）而言，針對批發端的 LLP，我目前沒有看到那樣的提列；但未來也可能發生。批發端就是如此——波動很大，你也會遇到相反的情境。不過就其他投資組合而言，我們展現了很高的一致性：1.3%、1.4%、1.3%、1.4%，相當穩定；而且名目金額每季成長約 3 億到 5 億巴西雷亞爾，但我們也在擴張資產，資產成長很多。

So with the 4,966, you call in provisions. I remember that I said that we have some portfolios that with the 2,682, what we used to call supervision for a new loan our break even was M+1 but now is M+5, M+6, depending on the portfolio. It used to be M+1. So the 4,966 brings in additional challenges because you stack up a little bit more in your portfolio so that in fact, you can start getting the due remuneration along a timeline. Therefore, I believe that we will continue to grow that cost of risk.

因此，依照 4,966，你需要計提備抵。我記得我曾說過，我們有一些投資組合，依照 2,682，我們過去所謂對新貸款的監管口徑，我們的損益兩平點是 M+1，但現在依投資組合不同，變成 M+5、M+6。以前是 M+1。所以 4,966 帶來額外挑戰，因為你在投資組合裡會多堆積一些，讓你實際上必須沿著時間軸才能開始取得應得的報酬。因此，我相信我們將會持續提高風險成本。

But following the line that I mentioned to you before -- and certainly, it depends on the growth level of our portfolio. If we continue to grow as much, excluding FX -- and we grew 9% year on year. If we continue to grow, we might grow more and then the cost may increase a bit more. And the reverse is also true. It holds to be true because if we thought that we would not grow as much, maybe we would need all of these provisions right on the onset according to 4966. So the cost of provision for the year should be higher.

但沿著我先前提到的脈絡——當然，這取決於我們投資組合的成長幅度。若我們持續成長、排除匯率因素——我們年增 9%。如果我們繼續成長，可能會成長更多，成本也可能再增加一些；反過來也成立。因為如果我們原本預期不會成長那麼多，或許依照 4966，我們在一開始就需要把這些備抵一次到位。因此，今年的備抵成本應該會更高。

But I do not let go of the quality of the portfolio. The quality is good. The portfolio is well managed. I've been looking at all the cohorts. So we are very confident about what we are doing. But when I am more present in the auto loans, there is an expected loss, and this is natural. I mean for credit card, even for high income and low income, there is some expected loss. And everything has been factored in. So we are growing, we will continue to grow. But at the same time, we will bring more NII, as I said before, going forward, and we are very consistent in that regard.

但我不會放鬆對投資組合品質的要求。品質是好的，投資組合管理得當。我一直在看所有分期（cohort）。所以我們對自己在做的事情非常有信心。但當我更深入汽車貸款時，會有預期損失，這是自然的。我的意思是，信用卡也是如此，不論高收入或低收入，都會有一些預期損失。而且這些都已經納入考量。我們在成長，也會持續成長；同時，如我先前所說，往後我們也會帶來更多淨利息收入（NII），而且我們在這方面非常一致。

And the same thing, like the emergency line. I mean, when you have the pressure from FGI and FGO on top of the NPL over 90, when -- according to the 4966, even though expected loss is lower, but between the maturity process and the great spirit, maybe the provision cost will increase. We will grow the portfolio in the sense to grow. But once it becomes flat, then it's just business as usual. I mean the cost of risk for the year, if it is 3.3%, it starts higher, and then you will converge to 3.3%. It's a natural.

同樣地，例如緊急額度也是如此。我的意思是，當你在 90 天以上不良貸款（NPL over 90）之上，還承受來自 FGI 與 FGO 的壓力時——依照 4966，即使預期損失較低，但在到期（maturity）流程與整體動能之間，備抵成本可能會上升。我們會在成長的意義上去擴張投資組合；但一旦成長趨於持平，就只是照常營運。我的意思是，如果年度風險成本是 3.3%，它一開始會比較高，然後你會收斂到 3.3%。這是自然的。

Henrique Navarro, Santander.

Henrique Navarro，Santander。

Good morning. Congrats on the results. My question is on sustainable return on equity. Every time we talk to you, and it's always a very pleasant event, the message that you convey and that we believe is that the step by step, the famous -- not only the step by step, it's a process that goes into 2028. It goes on gradually until 2028, and it's backed on all of the things that we know, cost-to-income ratio, better operating performance, cost of risk, et cetera, et cetera.

早安。恭喜這次的業績。我的問題是關於可持續的股東權益報酬率（ROE）。每次和你們交流——而且總是非常愉快——你們傳達、我們也相信的訊息是循序漸進，也就是著名的「一步一步」——不只是一步一步，而是一個延伸到 2028 年的流程。它會逐步推進到 2028 年，並且以我們所知道的一切為支撐：成本收入比、更好的營運表現、風險成本等等。

But as it improves, there is the issue that the effective tax rate tends to increase, and there is also the issue of provisions. It's a pushback that we get from investors. It's not that Bradesco needs to reinforce provisions, but it would be healthier probably to have higher provisions when compared to its peers. So as Bradesco improves, maybe you should be increasing provisions.

但隨著改善，會有一個問題：有效稅率往往會上升；另外也有備抵的問題。這是我們從投資人那裡收到的反饋。並不是說 Bradesco 需要強化備抵，但相較同業，備抵更高可能會更健康。因此，隨著 Bradesco 改善，也許你們應該提高備抵。

The question is, what would be a sustainable return on equity? And I don't want a guidance. I just want your help to understand it better. What would be the optimum level? If I run a weighted average, I mean, the number would come to 18%. So my question to you, Noronha, is whether 18% is a number that bothers you or whether that could be a sustainable level for return on equity?

問題是，什麼樣的 ROE 才是可持續的？我不是要你們給指引，我只是希望你們幫我更好地理解：最佳水準會是什麼？如果我做加權平均，數字大概會落在 18%。所以我想問你，Noronha，18% 這個數字會讓你困擾嗎？或者它可以是一個可持續的 ROE 水準？

Well, thank you, Navarro, and thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. We still have the same discourse. You know that I make no promises regarding ROE. I mean, 18% ROE in Brazil, you know that's absolutely feasible. I mean, having higher ROEs is also feasible, and we will pursue growth.

好的，謝謝你，Navarro，也謝謝你參與。我們總是很高興和你交流。我們的論述仍然一樣。你知道我不會對 ROE 做任何承諾。我的意思是，在巴西，18% 的 ROE 絕對是可行的。更高的 ROE 也同樣可行，而我們會追求成長。

I do not promise -- I promise you when, but we are moving in this direction, again, step by step, building our path to increase competitiveness and achieving the goal and being sustainable over time. But our plan, as Cassiano was saying, is only two years old. We started the implementation process only two years ago, meaning that we still have some ground to cover.

我不承諾——我承諾的是方向而不是時間點——但我們正朝這個方向前進，再次強調，一步一步地建立我們提升競爭力的路徑，達成目標，並在時間上保持可持續性。但我們的計畫，如 Cassiano 所說，才兩年。我們也只是兩年前才開始進入落地執行的流程，意味著我們仍有不少路要走。

And I often say that it's -- and until 2028 is not just now or maybe at the end, but during that period. Therefore, we continue to pursue that goal, and we continue to pursue better delivery for all of our shareholders, much better environment to our own employees, better experience, and better relationship with our clients. So this is what we are seeking to achieve to build the bank's competitiveness.

而我常說，直到 2028 年不只是現在或可能在最後一刻，而是在那段期間的每個階段。因此，我們會持續追求那個目標，並持續為所有股東帶來更好的交付，為我們自己的員工提供更好的環境，帶來更好的體驗，以及與客戶建立更好的關係。這就是我們希望達成的，以建立銀行的競爭力。

But Andre, please feel free to add to what I said because I know you are constantly talking to our colleagues on the buy side and sell side.

不過 Andre，請你也可以補充我剛才說的，因為我知道你一直在和買方與賣方的同業交流。

I mean Navarro's question answered part of the question. We are talking about better efficiency. We are talking about consuming DTAs. I mean, at the same tangible asset, reinforcing our P&L, meaning that we increase profitability and we reinforce our P&L at the same time.

我的意思是，Navarro 的問題其實已經回答了部分。我們談的是更好的效率；我們談的是消化遞延所得稅資產（DTA）。也就是在相同的有形資產基礎上，同時強化我們的損益表（P&L），意思是我們提升獲利能力，同時也強化 P&L。

When you say that it will be probably desirable to have better or higher provisions, last year, we increased provisions, both on the labor side, civil side, credit side. And this year, we are doing the same thing. We are reducing our restructured portfolio. We are reducing the number of civil and labor losses. We are doing everything at the same time. We are struggling with everything at the same time. So we are certainly looking at all of these topics.

當你說可能更理想的是有更好或更高的備抵時，去年我們提高了備抵，包含勞工面、民事面、信用面。今年我們也在做同樣的事。我們在降低重組投資組合；我們在降低民事與勞工訴訟損失的數量。我們同時在做所有事情；我們同時在各方面努力。所以我們確實在關注所有這些議題。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

Thiago Batista，UBS。

Hello. Congratulations on the results and on Bradsaude. I'd like to have a follow-up to Leduc's question regarding impact on capital. There was a positive impact. But we had negative 80 basis points for prudential adjustments and others. What are the important components of these 80 basis points? And should we expect something similar in the next quarters?

你好。恭喜這次的業績，也恭喜 Bradsaude。我想就 Leduc 關於資本影響的問題追問一下。那裡有正面影響，但我們看到審慎調整及其他項目帶來負的 80 個基點。這 80 個基點的重要組成是什麼？接下來幾季我們是否應該預期會有類似情況？

And my next question, something that I've asked to other banks regarding the new Desenrola program. Could you give us your view on the new Desenrola program? And will there be an impact on Bradesco? Will the impact to be small given the size of your business? I'd like to have your first impressions about the new Desenrola program.

我的下一個問題，是我也問過其他銀行的：關於新的 Desenrola 計畫。你們能否分享對新 Desenrola 計畫的看法？對 Bradesco 會有影響嗎？考量你們業務規模，影響是否會很小？我想聽聽你們對新 Desenrola 計畫的第一印象。

Thank you, Thiago, for joining us. It's a pleasure talking to you. I think, Cassiano, you can answer the first part, and then I'll speak about Desenrola.

謝謝你，Thiago，參與我們的會議。很高興和你交流。我想 Cassiano 可以回答第一部分，然後我再談 Desenrola。

Thiago, good morning. Thank you. It's always a pleasure to welcome you. There will be no impact, okay? There will be no more impact at this amount in the next quarters. This happened specifically in Q1. But as part of this 0.8, 0.4 would be fiscal losses as part of the Bradsaude operation, so that's kind of a match. In practice, it's 0.4 as part of the 0.8 as traditional prudential adjustments and 0.4 related to the operation as a whole of Bradsaude. So they balance each other.

Thiago，早安。謝謝你，也很高興歡迎你。接下來幾季不會再有這個幅度的影響，好嗎？這是第一季（Q1）特有的情況。但在這 0.8 裡面，0.4 會是 Bradsaude 交易的一部分所帶來的稅務虧損，所以某種程度上是相互對應。實務上，0.8 當中的 0.4 是傳統的審慎調整，另外 0.4 則與 Bradsaude 整體交易相關。因此它們彼此抵銷。

And Cassiano, let me add to that and remind Thiago and everyone joining us. You see always in Q1, there's a slightly greater pressure on capital because there are some adjustments already contracted by the Central Bank, for example, in terms of operational risk. But when we pay variable compensation at the beginning of the year, and we've been provisioning one-twelfth along the previous exercise, in our provisions, we do not have any type of fiscal impact.

Cassiano，讓我補充一下，也提醒 Thiago 以及所有參與者。你們會看到第一季資本通常會有稍大的壓力，因為有一些由央行已經約定的調整，例如在作業風險方面。但當我們在年初支付變動薪酬時——而我們在前一個會計年度已按月提列十二分之一的準備——在我們的準備金中並不會產生任何稅務影響。

But when we pay, that fiscal impact is created, and that's why Q1 is kind of unique. But in our view, independent of Bradsaude, the healthcare business, we would recover the capital as well. So I'm mentioning just one event but there are other events causing this. And this happens to all banks, not just to our organization.

但當我們實際支付時，稅務影響就會產生，這也是為什麼第一季有點特殊。但在我們看來，即使不考慮 Bradsaude（醫療保健業務），我們也會回補資本。所以我只是提到其中一個事件，但還有其他事件也會造成這種情況。而且這是所有銀行都會發生的，不只是我們這個機構。

Now to your point on Desenrola, a journalist asked me about this. We are prepared. I think we had about 18,000 clients until last night who had applied to Desenrola. But we, just like other organizations, committed to facilitate this movement with the scouts, with lower rate, with FTO guarantee to make people delinquent -- or actually not delinquent. So we are moving in that direction.

現在回到你提到的 Desenrola，有位記者問過我這件事。我們已經準備好了。我想截至昨晚，大約有 18,000 名客戶申請了 Desenrola。但我們和其他機構一樣，承諾要透過「scouts」、以較低利率、並搭配 FTO 擔保來促進這項行動，讓人們變成逾期——或者其實是不逾期。所以我們正朝這個方向推進。

Now in terms of impact, if we look at what is past due for much longer, the impact could be greater. But for short-term past dues, the impact does not tend to be very significant. That's my expectation, Thiago. So we start with over 90 days NPL. If it were close to two years, then it would be more significant than short-term NPL because we have a very controlled portfolio with more guarantees. So there are fewer opportunities in the short term.

就影響而言，如果我們看的是逾期更久的部分，影響可能會更大。但對於短期逾期，影響通常不會很顯著。Thiago，這是我的預期。因此我們從 90 天以上的不良貸款（NPL）開始看。如果接近兩年，那就會比短期 NPL 更顯著，因為我們的投組控管得很嚴格、擔保也更多。所以短期內機會較少。

And the only comment regarding capital, what were we seeing in the previous quarter? The base scenario is at around 11% in 2026, dropping a little bit and returning to around 11% at the end of the year. What is the new scenario? 12.7% pro forma in March, ending the year close to 12.7%, perhaps a little higher. So much more comfortable scenario, right?

至於資本方面唯一的補充，我們在上一季看到的是什麼？基準情境是在 2026 年約 11%，先小幅下降，年底再回到約 11%。那新的情境是什麼？3 月份按備考（pro forma）計算為 12.7%，年底接近 12.7%，可能還會略高一些。所以這是更舒適的情境，對吧？

That's why it's important to say that we have to deduct that 0.4% because that's consumed and we adjusted. It is created and it is consumed in April. It is exactly what you said, at 11.2%, navigated at 10.6%, and we will go back to 12.7% in the operational. That is important.

這就是為什麼要強調我們必須扣除那 0.4%，因為那部分已被消耗，我們也已調整。它在 4 月產生、也在 4 月被消耗。正如你所說，從 11.2% 走到 10.6%，而在營運口徑下我們會回到 12.7%。這點很重要。

Gustavo Schroden, Citi.

Citi 的 Gustavo Schroden。

Good morning. Good morning, all of you, and congrats on an ROE above cost of capital. I would just like to congratulate you on the Bradsaude transaction. Well, still on Leduc's question, but more focused now on large corporate, I think we understand that as Marcelo said, there is always the risk of one or another particular case or a one-off case. But I always get questions from investors because this was a known case, very specific case.

早安。各位早安，也恭喜你們的 ROE 高於資本成本。我也想就 Bradsaude 交易向你們致賀。嗯，仍延續 Leduc 的問題，但現在更聚焦在大型企業端；我想我們理解如 Marcelo 所說，總是存在某個或某些個案、或一次性事件的風險。但投資人常問我，因為這是一個已知的案例，非常特定的案例。

But usually, you make provisions if it is a known case. If Marcelo can share with us some information about the coverage ratio for large corporates that you have? Because we've heard many news of maybe other possible cases of, quote, reorganization.

但通常如果是已知案例，你們會提列準備。Marcelo 是否能與我們分享一下，你們在大型企業客群的覆蓋率（coverage ratio）是多少？因為我們聽到很多新聞，可能還有其他潛在案例，所謂的「重整」。

And the second question is about balance sheet efficiency. That operation with Bradsaude, I mean, in our reading, the numbers speak for themselves. It was a very successful operation. And then given the number of investees or controlled companies that Bradesco has in the conglomerate, my question is whether this is a path that could be further explored to increase efficiency, such as in the case of Bradsaude, not only that had an impact on the capital but also in terms of the value.

第二個問題是關於資產負債表效率。那筆 Bradsaude 的操作，我的意思是，從我們的解讀來看，數字本身已說明一切；這是一筆非常成功的操作。那麼，考量到 Bradesco 在集團內有許多被投資公司或受控公司，我的問題是：這是否是一條可以進一步探索、以提升效率的路徑？例如像 Bradsaude 的案例，不僅對資本有影響，也在價值層面帶來效果。

Well, thank you again for joining this conference call. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. We are always looking at other opportunities in terms of our balance sheet. We discussed that extensively among us and with the Board. It's also important to remember that it is the ninth quarter that I am here presenting, the results. But since day one, I mean, I keep saying that the entire organization of Bradesco is very rich, and there is a lot of wealth to be allocated.

再次感謝你參加這場電話會議。能與你交流總是很愉快。我們一直在資產負債表方面尋找其他機會。我們在內部以及與董事會都深入討論過。也很重要的是要記得，這是我在這裡第九個季度報告業績。但從第一天起，我就一直說 Bradesco 的整個組織非常富有，且有大量財富可以配置。

But everything has its right moment. We have to look whether it's economically feasible or not. We often talk about this. Rest assured that this is part of our homework. And as I said earlier, we are very disciplined in terms of capital allocation and everything that we can do in terms of DTAs.

但凡事都有合適的時點。我們必須評估在經濟上是否可行。我們經常談到這點。請放心，這是我們的功課之一。而且如我先前所說，我們在資本配置上非常自律，也會在 DTA 方面把所有能做的都做到。

I also -- I wish I could expedite its consumption, but it is our net income that allows you to accelerate things, and we will do everything we can. But I would like to remind you that the calculation of expected loss doesn't have anything to do with knowing or not knowing the case. I said that I just aggravated. And for us, we are very well covered.

另外——我希望能加快其消耗，但能否加速取決於我們的淨利，淨利才能讓你加快進度，我們會盡一切努力。不過我想提醒你，預期損失（expected loss）的計算與是否「知道」該案例無關。我說的是我只是把它加重了。而對我們而言，我們的覆蓋非常充足。

But you may have a very specific case that you probably thought that the level of expected loss was X. And then we realized that the company was deteriorating and it could have been X plus Y. And you could also see that expected loss was X, but it was minus X.

但你可能會遇到非常特定的個案：你原本認為預期損失水準是 X，然後我們發現公司狀況在惡化，可能變成 X 加 Y。你也可能看到預期損失是 X，但最後卻是 X 減掉某個部分。

Also, recovery comes in full. We work with technical elements, expected loss for cases of other portfolios. Civil or labor lawsuits, we use that. That's the mathematical and technical evaluation. But very specific cases also involve some technical analysis and sensitivity analysis in terms of what can be recovered.

此外，回收也可能全額到位。我們以技術要素來作業，其他投組的案件也用預期損失方法；例如民事或勞動訴訟，我們也用這套。這是數學與技術性的評估。但非常特定的個案也會涉及一些技術分析與敏感度分析，來評估可回收的程度。

And there is another variable. What is the level of guarantees that you have? What is the type of line that is involved? But in no case, it has nothing to do with expected loss because it doesn't matter that your provision was X and then you had to aggravate the provision and added a Y to that X. That's why I said we decided to increase it, to increase provision.

還有另一個變數：你擁有的擔保水準是多少？涉及的是哪一種授信額度／產品？但無論如何，這都與預期損失無關，因為不管你的提列是 X，之後你必須加重提列、在 X 上再加 Y。這就是我說我們決定提高、增加提列的原因。

And you talked about some other reorganizations. I mean, take a look at it. I'm not going to give an example of a court reorganization, but I saw two examples. I think it was last week. I'll see, maybe Andre has that information, and I can bring it to you. I mean, I cannot refer to any specific case, so I can talk to you later.

你也提到其他一些重整。我的意思是，你可以去看看。我不會舉任何司法重整的具體例子，但我上週看到兩個例子。我再確認一下，也許 Andre 有那個資訊，我可以帶給你。我的意思是，我不能指涉任何特定個案，所以我之後再跟你談。

But take a look at that. We are not in any of these court reorganizations. So we are out of the majority of them. So we are very confident in terms of what we are doing in terms of our coverage ratio for very one-off cases and also in the wholesale bank.

但你可以去看看。我們並未涉入任何這些司法重整。因此我們避開了其中大多數。所以就我們在處理一次性個案的覆蓋率，以及在批發銀行（wholesale bank）方面所做的事情而言，我們非常有信心。

Thank you, Gustavo. Our LLP budget for large corporate remains the same, but sometimes you shift LLP when there is the aggravation of a particular case.

謝謝你，Gustavo。我們針對大型企業的 LLP 預算維持不變，但有時當某個個案惡化時，你會調整（shift）LLP。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

JPMorgan 的 Yuri Fernandes。

Thank you, Andre. Good morning, Marcelo, Cassiano. And also congrats on your improved capital situation, 12.7% or even higher than that. That was a very important message that you conveyed today. I would like to go back to large corporate cases and exploit that a little bit more.

謝謝你，Andre。早安，Marcelo、Cassiano。也恭喜你們資本狀況改善，達到 12.7% 甚至更高。這是你們今天傳達的一個非常重要的訊息。我想回到大型企業個案，並再深入探討一些。

Because looking at the status and the way you design things, I mean, Stage 3 improved by 20 bps. But when we look at expanded portfolio that also includes real estate, Stage 3 is worse. So that expanded view of Stage 3 worsening has to do with some corporate cases. And then when we look at a proxy of Stage 3 formation coming from the expanded portfolio, your provision that was high enough was not even enough to face that formation.

因為從狀況與你們的設計方式來看，我的意思是，Stage 3 改善了 20 個基點。但當我們看包含房地產在內的擴大投組（expanded portfolio）時，Stage 3 反而更差。所以，擴大口徑下 Stage 3 的惡化，與一些企業個案有關。接著當我們用擴大投組來看 Stage 3 形成（formation）的代理指標時，你們原本已經很高的提列，甚至仍不足以應對那樣的形成。

So my question is, do you think we should look at provisions or whether cost of risk is higher? And because of higher cost of risk, you would probably increase provisions, but maybe no, not, because you would say, okay, we have more secured loans. And so probably the first quarter -- and I'm not going to say that there was a peak because you never know in Brazil, maybe we should see better levels of provisions. I just want to get a better understanding on Stage 3 and your provisions in this first quarter.

所以我的問題是：你認為我們應該怎麼看提列，或是風險成本（cost of risk）是否更高？而因為風險成本更高，你們可能會提高提列，但也可能不會，因為你們會說：好，我們有更多有擔保的貸款。因此第一季——我不會說已經見頂，因為在巴西你永遠不知道——也許我們應該會看到更好的提列水準。我只是想更了解第一季的 Stage 3 與你們的提列。

Thank you for joining us once again. And before I start answering, you've always provoked us when it comes to capital, having higher capital than maybe we would be able to use up DPAs much faster. And your provocation has always been in our mind. It's interesting because we look at that every single month. But thank you for your provocation once again. Andre, over to you, and then I will add if need be.

再次感謝你加入我們。在我開始回答之前，你在資本議題上一直「刺激」我們：如果資本更高，也許我們就能更快消耗 DPA。你的這種刺激一直在我們心中。很有意思的是，我們每個月都會看這件事。所以也再次感謝你的刺激。Andre，交給你，之後如有需要我再補充。

Speaking about provisions, the idea is that the cost of risk in a year should be close to 3.3%, starting higher, and then converging to that number. The issue is that, in fact, we have more LLP right in the onset, and this is a characteristic of a landscape of monetary tightening. And in our agribusiness, the fact that the grace period is over -- but this is part of our plan. So nothing has changed. This still remains the same.

談到提列，我們的想法是：全年的風險成本應該接近 3.3%，先從較高水準開始，然後逐步收斂到那個數字。問題在於，事實上我們在一開始就有較多的 LLP，而這是貨幣緊縮環境的一種特徵。至於我們的農業金融（agribusiness），寬限期結束——但這是我們計畫的一部分。所以沒有任何改變，仍然維持不變。

But as for large corporate, during the presentation, we mentioned Stage 3 of the Bacen portfolio, Central Bank portfolio, which is more restricted. In the historical series, we mentioned Stage 3 of the expanded portfolio. And looking at that, you see the aggravation of what would be sureties, the DTM, and that's where we find it.

至於大型企業，在簡報中我們提到的是 Bacen 投組（中央銀行口徑投組）的 Stage 3，這個口徑更為受限。在歷史序列中，我們提到的是擴大投組的 Stage 3。從那裡看，你會看到原本會是保證（sureties）、DTM 的部分出現惡化，而我們就是在那裡看到的。

Why is it that our provision is not higher? Because there are more secured loans and a lower number of restructured loans. So when we reduce our restructured portfolio to 3.1% out of the total one, we are writing off debt that were heavily provisioned. So here, you have the reversal of this point. And there is also one other point in terms of guarantees, which reached 61%. So when you calculate the necessary LLP for a total portfolio of 61% of secured loans, certainly, this does not require heavy provisions.

為什麼我們的提列不是更高？因為擔保貸款較多，且重組貸款的數量較少。因此，當我們將重組投組降至占總投組的 3.1% 時，我們正在沖銷那些已大量提列備抵的債務。所以在這裡，你會看到這一點的回轉。此外，還有另一點與擔保有關，擔保比例達到 61%。因此，當你針對一個擔保貸款占比 61% 的整體投組計算所需的 LLP 時，當然不需要大量提列。

I would just like to add saying that when it comes to Stage 3, you noticed that we increased our coverage ratio. I think it was about 105% and it went to 118%, right? When we look at the older agribusiness cohorts, our provision level is quite significant. It's very high. We are covered for higher risk operations. When we look at lower risk operations, there is an expected loss, which is much lower. We're very comfortable about that.

我只想補充一點：談到第 3 階段（Stage 3）時，你會注意到我們提高了覆蓋率。我想原本大約是 105%，後來提高到 118%，對吧？當我們看較早期的農業企業（agribusiness）批次時，我們的提列水準相當可觀，非常高。我們對較高風險的業務有充分覆蓋。當我們看較低風險的業務時，預期損失就低得多。我們對此非常放心。

And we've had good performance even in large corporates because we had good guarantees. The structure was well orchestrated. The decision to increase provisions was a correct decision. It was even more conservative when you look at our current stage. I don't know whether everyone else will do the same thing. I mean, I didn't look at it. This was merely our decision. And certainly, we are very confident when it comes to our coverage level in all portfolios, and we are growing on Stage 3 as well. Thank you, Yuri. And again, thank you for all your provocations in terms of capital.

而且我們在大型企業客戶方面也有良好表現，因為我們有良好的擔保，結構安排得當。提高提列的決策是正確的決策。以我們目前的階段來看，這甚至更為保守。我不知道其他人是否都會做同樣的事，我的意思是，我沒有去看。這純粹是我們的決定。而且，當談到我們在所有投組的覆蓋水準時，我們當然非常有信心，我們在第 3 階段也在成長。謝謝你，Yuri。也再次感謝你在資本方面提出的所有挑戰。

Matheus Guimaraes, XP.

Matheus Guimaraes，XP。

Good morning, Andre, Noronha, Cassiano. Congratulations on the results. Thank you for taking my question, I have actually two. First about the social security, INSS deductible loan in which you have a 15% market share, and this product is going through a number of changes since the publication of TCU decision and now under Desenrola with a potential reduction of limits, If you could comment on how you're seeing this product evolving in the future.

早安，Andre、Noronha、Cassiano。恭喜你們的業績。謝謝讓我提問，我其實有兩個問題。第一個是關於社會安全（INSS）可扣薪貸款（deductible loan），你們在這個產品上有 15% 的市占率；自從 TCU 決議公布後，現在又在 Desenrola 框架下，這個產品正經歷多項變更，且可能下調額度上限。想請你們評論一下，你們如何看待這個產品未來的演變。

I think Noronha kind of touched on it during the presentation. Origination, he said has been reduced given a number of changes implemented by the social security system, INSS. But it would be good to have an idea of what you're thinking for the future.

我想 Noronha 在簡報中有稍微提到。關於承作（origination），他說因為社會安全系統 INSS 實施了多項變更而有所下降。但如果能更了解你們對未來的想法會很好。

The second question is on insurance guidance. You mentioned growth between 6% and 8%. You ended last year growing 16% and you started the year growing 20%. So we are above the upper range of the guidance. So if you could comment about the performance, was it well above what you expected or did you expect a Q1 that would be very strong? Do you expect that the guidance -- that this number will accommodate throughout the year?

第二個問題是關於保險的指引（guidance）。你們提到成長 6% 到 8%。你們去年年底成長 16%，今年開局成長 20%。所以我們已經高於指引區間上緣。想請你們評論一下這個表現：是否遠高於你們原先預期，或是你們本來就預期第一季會非常強？你們是否預期指引——也就是這個數字——在全年會逐步消化（accommodate）？

Well, Matheus, it's a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for the questions. I'll start with the second one, and I'll ask my friend, Ney, to answer the question about the guidance. Ney, over to you. And then I'll speak about the INSS deductible loan.

Matheus，很高興和你交流。謝謝你的問題。我先從第二個問題開始，並請我的同事 Ney 來回答關於指引的問題。Ney，交給你。之後我再談 INSS 可扣薪貸款。

Thank you, Marcelo. And my dear colleague, indeed, we posted a fantastic result in Q1. But for the full year, we envisioned some challenges in the coming quarters. Well, we came from a results base in the previous year that was higher. So in our opinion, we believe the guidance remains adequate for the full year despite Q1.

謝謝你，Marcelo。親愛的同事，確實，我們在第一季繳出非常出色的結果。但就全年而言，我們預期接下來幾季會面臨一些挑戰。畢竟，我們去年有一個較高的業績基期。因此，我們認為即使第一季表現亮眼，這個全年指引仍然是適當的。

For Q1, we expected greater growth. And then that was factored in for the guidance for the full year. So of course, we continue working, paying attention to loss ratio and opportunities in the market. But we're very comfortable with the guidance that we have, Matheus, for the full year.

就第一季而言，我們原本就預期會有較高的成長，而這也已納入全年指引的考量。當然，我們會持續努力，關注損失率以及市場機會。但 Matheus，我們對目前的全年指引非常有信心。

Right. Matheus, regarding INSS deductible loans, indeed, many changes, the process of contracting the loan. And also portability, the modus operandi suggested, created a huge risk for those using portability. And there was a message from FEBRABAN asking for a change, and it seems that they accepted that suggestion.

好的。Matheus，關於 INSS 可扣薪貸款，確實有很多變更，包括貸款簽約流程。此外，所建議的可攜轉（portability）操作模式，對使用可攜轉的人造成了很大的風險。FEBRABAN 曾發出訊息要求變更，而看起來他們已接受了該建議。

Now in our case, I'll be very candid with you. Things are positive because we had the INSS card, but we don't work with benefit cards. And the card itself has a low penetration. We work with lower rates. And this additional margin that we can have in the traditional product, it is positive for us at least. And we have gone back to growing even with a market pie that was smaller in terms of origination.

就我們的情況而言，我會很坦白地說：情況是正面的，因為我們有 INSS 卡，但我們不做福利卡（benefit cards）。而且卡本身的滲透率不高。我們以較低利率運作。而我們在傳統產品上可以取得的這個額外額度（margin），至少對我們而言是正面的。即使市場在承作量方面的整體餅變小了，我們也已恢復成長。

But yes, we got that resolution yesterday, suspending some modalities. And as of May 19, everything will be released for us to operate with the new modalities. But Matheus, I maintain a positive expectation regarding all three lines of deductible loans, private payroll loans, public payroll loans, and INSS deductible loans.

不過是的，我們昨天收到了那項決議，暫停了某些模式。而從 5 月 19 日起，一切都會釋出，讓我們可以用新的模式來營運。但 Matheus，我仍對三條可扣薪貸款產品線抱持正向預期：民間薪資扣繳貸款、公部門薪資扣繳貸款，以及 INSS 可扣薪貸款。

Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

Eduardo Rosman，BTG。

Right. Good day, everyone. I'd like to go back to tangible capital, which I believe is a super relevant topic. The discussion has intensified in the last few months, and it became more clear with the Bradsaude deal. So one, how did the change in mindset happen at the level of the Board and the controlling shareholders? I know it's not a new topic, but I'd like to understand how did the mindset change, and how did it mature?

好的。各位好。我想回到有形資本（tangible capital），我認為這是一個非常重要的議題。過去幾個月討論升溫，而 Bradsaude 交易讓這點更清楚。所以第一，董事會與控股股東層級的思維轉變是如何發生的？我知道這不是新議題，但我想了解這個思維是如何改變、又如何逐步成熟的？

Thank you, Rosman. It was a pleasure to have you. Look, what I can say is that the big sponsor and the one who put this on the table is Trabuco, the Chairman of the Board. Trabuco and Samuel who was a Board member up until recently, Ivan now and also the Bradesco Saude teams together with our finance team, the finance department of the insurance group, the finance team of the bank, all of these people participated in a lot of debates, always focusing on the possibility to unlock value in an asset that is very substantial and relevant to us.

謝謝你，Rosman。很高興你參與。你看，我能說的是：最大的推動者、也是把這件事放到檯面上的人，是董事長 Trabuco。Trabuco 以及直到最近仍是董事的 Samuel、現在的 Ivan，還有 Bradesco Saude 團隊與我們的財務團隊、保險集團的財務部門、銀行的財務團隊——所有這些人都參與了大量討論，始終聚焦在如何在一項對我們非常龐大且重要的資產上解鎖價值的可能性。

And things matured over time with us building other pillars, and I'll ask Marinelli to give us more color on this. Not just regarding the health business plan but also Odontoprev and also talking about hospitals and how many clients we have. So Rosman, I would say that we are at a very positive level of maturity at the organization. Bradesco was always a very dynamic organization as it relates to acquisitions and always aiming to create value.

而且，隨著時間推移，事情逐步成熟，我們也建立了其他支柱；我會請 Marinelli 就此提供更多細節。不僅是健康業務計畫，還包括 Odontoprev，以及我們也在談醫院與我們有多少客戶。所以 Rosman，我會說我們在組織層面已達到非常正向的成熟度。Bradesco 一直是一個在併購方面非常動態、並且始終以創造價值為目標的組織。

It will not change. This will not change. And I think that our debates have been very fruitful debates, open debates, discussing different topics. So I am very pleased with the debate yesterday in a meeting with our team, a meeting we always hold in the eve of an earnings call. I have to thank them.

這不會改變。這不會改變。我認為我們的討論一直非常有成果，是開放式的討論，涵蓋不同主題。所以我對昨天與團隊的會議感到非常滿意——我們總是在財報電話會議前夕召開這樣的會議。我必須感謝他們。

In our case, I have to thank Trabuco and the rest of the Board members because they have fully supported all the initiatives we put on the table. Just look at the transformation we're carrying out in the organization. I mean, for that to happen, you need to have support from the Board and you need to have full engagement of our employees to do it. Without them, you can't do it. And of course, you have to have a consistent plan to engage everyone. Marinelli, can you give us more color regarding the value unlocked at Bradsaude?

就我們而言，我必須感謝 Trabuco 以及其他董事會成員，因為他們完全支持我們提出的所有倡議。看看我們正在組織內推動的轉型就知道了。我的意思是，要讓這些發生，你需要董事會的支持，也需要員工的全面投入才能做到。沒有他們，你做不到。當然，你也必須有一個一致且連貫的計畫來凝聚所有人。Marinelli，你能否就 Bradsaude 所解鎖的價值提供更多細節？

Perfect, Noronha. Thank you, Rosman, for the question. As we normally say, this is something that started more than 40 years ago. We got into health insurance back in the 1980s, and we developed that market in Brazil. Our presence in the healthcare business has been coherent and consistent. So we started with health insurance and then we evolved for dental insurance. It evolved to investments we make in other areas.

很好，Noronha。謝謝你，Rosman，提出這個問題。正如我們通常所說，這件事在 40 多年前就開始了。我們在 1980 年代進入健康保險，並在巴西發展了這個市場。我們在醫療健康業務上的布局一直是連貫且一致的。因此，我們從健康保險起步，接著演進到牙科保險，也進一步演變為我們在其他領域的投資。

Now we have a shareholding at Fleury for diagnostics and also technology with the investments we have in Orizon. We have primary care clinics serving more than 1.2 million people and more recently with Atlantica Hospitais e Participacoes, which in a short period of time achieved a mark of 20 hospitals, considering operational hospitals and ones in development. It would be one of the top four hospital networks in the country. So it's a coherent story that will develop over time, and that led us to an important presence in the Brazilian healthcare market.

現在我們持有 Fleury 的股權，用於診斷業務；在科技方面，則透過我們在 Orizon 的投資。我們有基層醫療診所，服務超過 120 萬人；而更近期，透過 Atlantica Hospitais e Participacoes，我們在短時間內達到 20 家醫院的規模，包含已營運的醫院與開發中的醫院。這將使其成為全國前四大的醫院網路之一。因此，這是一個會隨時間發展的連貫故事，也讓我們在巴西醫療健康市場建立了重要的存在。

And two days ago, we disclosed the managerial numbers of Bradsaude for Q1. But together with that information from Odontoprev and Bradesco Saude. And of course, that provides us with the most complete ecosystem in healthcare in Brazil. This is a new chapter for the Bradesco organization in healthcare now with Bradsaude. And we have a lot of business synergies to capture but always taking care -- paying attention and with all the knowledge and experience and expertise that we have developed over more than 40 years in healthcare.

而在兩天前，我們披露了 Bradsaude 第一季的管理口徑數字。但連同 Odontoprev 與 Bradesco Saude 的資訊一起來看，當然，這讓我們在巴西醫療健康領域擁有最完整的生態系。對 Bradesco 組織而言，現在隨著 Bradsaude 的加入，這是醫療健康領域的新篇章。我們有許多業務協同可望釋放，但我們始終會謹慎行事——保持關注，並運用我們在超過 40 年醫療健康領域所累積的知識、經驗與專業能力。

Thank you, Marinelli. And I'd like to remind you of an additional detail. We have a big partner with Atlantica and we have Rede D'Or, Santa Grupo in these departments, and I see a potential upside that is very important. Thank you, Marinelli, Rosman. Thank you for the question. It's been a pleasure.

謝謝你，Marinelli。我也想提醒大家一個額外的細節。我們與 Atlantica 有一個重要的合作夥伴關係，並且在這些部門中也有 Rede D'Or、Santa Grupo，我看到一個非常重要的上行潛力。謝謝你，Marinelli、Rosman。謝謝你的提問。很高興。

I would like to emphasize that in terms of growing tangible assets, it's just like Marcelo said, we are constantly looking at it.

我想強調的是，就有形資產的成長而言，正如 Marcelo 所說，我們一直在持續關注。

Eduardo Nishio, Genial.

Eduardo Nishio，Genial。

Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Noronha, Cassiano, and Andre. Congrats on the results and congrats on the operation of Bradsaude. That's excellent news. I have two questions. The first is on your evolution in strategic plan, which has been very relevant in terms of the footprint. The service network was down 25% year on year.

早安。各位早安。早安，Noronha、Cassiano 和 Andre。恭喜本季業績，也恭喜 Bradsaude 的交易完成。這是非常好的消息。我有兩個問題。第一個是關於你們策略計畫的演進，這在據點布局（footprint）方面非常關鍵。服務網路年減 25%。

However, I would just like to get a better understanding about the trajectory for this year and next year. I know that this is a longer process. I don't know whether you have room for further reductions. And the headcount, which is a bit lower, over 6% year on year. So how do you see this line performing in the coming quarters and years and also the impact of efficiency?

不過，我想更了解今年與明年的路徑。我知道這是一個較長期的流程。我不確定你們是否還有進一步縮減的空間。另外，人員編制（headcount）年減略高於 6%。所以你們如何看待這條線在接下來幾季與幾年的表現，以及效率提升帶來的影響？

And the second question is just to get a better understanding about the impact of the deferred tax assets that have to do with the previous question from Rosman on intangible assets. Looking at your DTAs this quarter, there was a drop of BRL1.1 billion more or less.

第二個問題是想更了解遞延所得稅資產（DTA）的影響，這也與 Rosman 先前關於無形資產的問題相關。從你們本季的 DTA 來看，大約下降了 11 億巴西雷亞爾。

And this was the same amount when you look at the full integration program of BRL1.8 billion. Was there any other impact that we should monitor here? This transition or the transaction of Bradsaude, did it generate any impact this quarter or maybe next? And if it will, whether don't you think that it will be too conservative on your maintenance of guidance in terms of maintaining this balance?

而這個金額與你們完整整合計畫的 18 億巴西雷亞爾相比也很接近。這裡是否還有其他我們需要關注的影響？Bradsaude 的這次轉換或交易，是否在本季或可能在下季產生任何影響？如果會的話，你們在維持指引、維持這個水位方面，是否會顯得過於保守？

Thank you for your question. It's also a pleasure to talk to you again. I would like Cassiano to answer the question. And then if Andre wants to add to this.

謝謝你的提問。也很高興再次與你交流。我想請 Cassiano 先回答這個問題，然後如果 Andre 想補充也可以。

Good morning, Nishio. It's nice ot see you again. There was no other impact. What you said in the beginning is not PTI but in fact is a bilateral negotiation, a direct negotiation with the IRS. I mean, we improved the quality of the bank's balance sheet. There was a reduction of a lawsuit that was BRL5.8 billion and that was down to BRL1.8 billion, and it was paid within DTA. It's important to highlight that. So that there is no other effect except for this one.

早安，Nishio。很高興再次見到你。沒有其他影響。你一開始提到的並不是 PTI，而其實是與稅務機關（IRS）進行的雙邊協商、直接談判。也就是說，我們提升了銀行資產負債表的品質。有一宗訴訟原本是 58 億巴西雷亞爾，降至 18 億巴西雷亞爾，並以 DTA 方式支付。這點很重要，需要特別強調。因此，除了這一項之外沒有其他效果。

And in the case of Bradsaude, it's a positive impact. And so we showed things -- I mean, one of the colleagues asked about the 0.80 and the 2.5. These are the two positive effects coming from Bradsaude as a whole. Therefore, we do not have any other further impact. It became effective on April 30. This is our capital, 12.7% CET1. And we understand that from now on, it's just a matter of maintaining it or even improving it further. So this is the major goal.

至於 Bradsaude，影響是正面的。因此我們展示了相關項目——也就是有同事問到的 0.80 和 2.5。這兩項就是 Bradsaude 整體帶來的兩個正面效果。所以我們沒有其他進一步影響。該交易於 4 月 30 日生效。這反映在我們的資本上，CET1 為 12.7%。我們理解從現在起，就是維持甚至進一步提升的問題。這是主要目標。

And what about footprint? I mean, it's been four years. I think that the initial two years, we kept saying that this is where we would have the bulk of the volume. And maybe the bulk of the adjustment would happen in the initial years because we still had to migrate clients to our digital bank. Marcelo talked about that at the beginning of the presentation. 28 million to 29 million clients are already digital. We expect to reach 50 million clients already migrating to Bradesco Digital. And this will give us the opportunity to make other adjustments. But now these adjustments are of lower amounts and just spreading.

至於據點布局（footprint），已經四年了。我認為前兩年我們一直在說，主要的量會集中在那段期間。而且大部分的調整可能也會發生在最初幾年，因為我們仍需要把客戶遷移到我們的數位銀行。Marcelo 在簡報一開始也提到：已有 2,800 萬到 2,900 萬客戶是數位化的。我們預期可達到 5,000 萬客戶遷移到 Bradesco Digital。這將讓我們有機會進行其他調整。但現在這些調整的幅度較小，且是分散進行。

But then when you look at headcount, you have to remember that we are hiring a lot of people. Therefore, the impact is not so visible because we are doing reskilling, upskilling, both in the loan side, technology as well, bringing developers to the bank. We are reviewing the architecture of the bank. We are bringing in people to work in data and pricing. So all in all, it was -- I mean, there was this difference in headcount. But in our case, we are moving in the right direction towards improving our cost-to-income ratio, especially in the future.

但談到人員編制（headcount），你必須記得我們也在大量招募。因此影響不那麼明顯，因為我們正在進行再培訓（reskilling）與技能提升（upskilling），不論是在放款端、科技端，也把開發人員帶進銀行。我們正在檢視銀行的架構，並引進人員投入資料與定價工作。總體而言——也就是說，雖然 headcount 有所差異，但就我們而言，我們正朝著正確方向前進，以改善成本收入比（cost-to-income ratio），尤其是未來。

Great, I think you said it all. In terms of hiring, we already said that we increased our team.

很好，我想你已經把重點都說完了。就招募而言，我們也已經說過，我們擴大了團隊。

Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

Carlos Gomez-Lopez，HSBC。

Hello. Well, thank you. I have two questions. My first question is about that extraordinary liability you mentioned you had in the quarter. The original was 5.4%. I just want to confirm. You didn't have any provisions for that, or now that you made an agreement -- so what are you doing -- that you have extraordinary cash that you're using DTA. Can you give me a bit more information about your agreement with the IRS and whether you anticipate further cases like that in the future. And about DTA, the level of up to the end of the year is BRL119 billion gross and BRL112 billion net. Is this the percentage of capital?

你好。謝謝。我有兩個問題。第一個問題是關於你提到本季出現的那筆非常規負債。原本是 5.4%。我想確認一下：你們之前沒有為此提列任何準備，或是現在你們已經達成協議——所以你們在做什麼——你們有非常規的現金流，並且在使用 DTA。你能否提供更多關於你們與稅務機關（IRS）協議的資訊，以及你們是否預期未來還會有類似案件？另外關於 DTA，截至年底的水位是總額 1,190 億巴西雷亞爾、淨額 1,120 億巴西雷亞爾。這是資本的百分比嗎？

Thank you Gomez, and thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Cassiano and Andre will answer your second question. But your first question, in fact, this is a goodwill we had in the past. And since there was a debate in the council that decides that, and that they benefited us with the reduction of defying the decision, even though it was possible -- again, possible.

謝謝你，Gomez，也謝謝你加入我們。總是很高興與你交流。Cassiano 和 Andre 會回答你的第二個問題。至於第一個問題，事實上，這是我們過去的一筆商譽（goodwill）。由於負責裁決的委員會存在討論，而他們讓我們受益於降低了推翻該決定的可能性，儘管那是可能的——再次強調，是可能的。

They also suggested that we settle that using DTAs. It was a possible contingency. That's why the provisions were not so high. When you have large cases, the lawyers tend to express their opinion. That's why we had a probable expected loss.

他們也建議我們用 DTA 來和解。這是一項可能的或有事項（contingency），因此先前的準備提列並不高。當遇到大型案件時，律師通常會表達其意見，因此我們當時判定為「可能」的預期損失。

The second question, I mean, that is law, 14,689, specific cases analyzed individually. So we can't talk about what may lay ahead because that's the future. I mean, it's possible when it's possible, so it does not require provisions.

至於第二個問題，這是法律第 14,689 號，且是逐案個別分析。因此我們無法談論未來可能會發生什麼，因為那是未來。也就是說，只有在「可能」的情況下才會發生，而在那種情況下並不需要提列準備。

When we see a possibility of bilateral agreement, you may reduce that potential from 5,400 using DTAs, and that is quite important to us in addition to improving our balance sheet. We should celebrate that. It was a win-win for both parties. And the balance sheet's quality is even improved because you remove future risk of contingencies. And about DTAs at the end of '26, the inventory nominal amounts that BRL116 billion from the end of 2025 will be almost the same in 2026. Therefore, the inventory of DTAs in nominal figures will be flat since the shareholders' equity should increase. That should increase as well.

當我們看到有雙邊協議的可能性時，你可以用 DTA 將那個 5,400 的潛在金額降低，這對我們非常重要，同時也改善了我們的資產負債表。我們應該為此感到高興。這對雙方都是雙贏。而且資產負債表品質也進一步提升，因為你移除了未來或有事項的風險。至於 2026 年底的 DTA，截至 2025 年底名目金額為 1,160 億巴西雷亞爾，到了 2026 年將幾乎相同。因此，DTA 的名目存量將持平，因為股東權益應該會增加，而那也會隨之增加。

Just to add now, Gomez, again, you never lose sight of our DTA inventory. We are constantly looking at the stock of DTA. And now we started paying that amount related to that 1467.

再補充一下，Gomez，我們從不忽視我們的 DTA 存量。我們一直在持續檢視 DTA 的存量。而且現在我們已開始支付與那個 1467 相關的金額。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

Renato Meloni，Autonomous。

Good morning. It's always a pleasure to see you. Thank you for taking my question. I just have a follow-up question, Marcelo, on your comment about provisioning and 4966. You have provisioning in your mind. But how do you combine that with your coverage ratio that it ended at 161% in the quarter?

早安。很高興見到你。謝謝你回答我的問題。我只有一個追問，Marcelo，關於你對提列（provisioning）與 4966 的評論。你心中有提列的規劃。但你如何把這與本季結束時 161% 的覆蓋率（coverage ratio）結合起來看？

And the second question is related to that. Speaking about ROAE, when we look at the balance sheet of the bank, the improvement of that sequential ROAE came mostly from increase in leverage, whereas provisions consume this improvement in efficiencies. Are you comfortable with this leverage level? And next question is, where do you think the other levers will come to increase ROAE, assuming that provisioning will remain the same, at least in the midrange?

第二個問題也與此相關。談到 ROAE，當我們看銀行的資產負債表時，序列 ROAE 的改善主要來自槓桿提升，而提列則消耗了效率改善帶來的提升。你們對目前的槓桿水位感到安心嗎？另外，假設提列在中期至少維持不變，你認為還有哪些其他槓桿可以用來提高 ROAE？

Renato, first of all, thank you for joining us today. It's always a pleasure to talk to you again. So first of all, leverage is part of our business. We remain comfortable with our level of leverage. We have capital to do it, and it's important to have enough capital to continue on your growth trajectory and stacking up intermediation margin. While at the same time, we expand distribution from other lines like consortium, as I mentioned, but the growth of the insurance group matters here.

Renato，首先，感謝你今天加入我們。再次與你交流總是很愉快。首先，槓桿是我們業務的一部分。我們對目前的槓桿水準仍感到安心。我們有資本來做這件事，而且擁有足夠的資本以持續沿著成長軌跡前進、並累積中介利差是很重要的。同時，我們也如我所提到的，從財團（consortium）等其他業務線擴大通路，但保險集團的成長在這裡也很關鍵。

So once we added the auto platform, we also added to the customer experience the possibility of choosing to engage in auto insurance. So we increased penetration of selling auto insurance through our channel. We are also growing here in terms of cross-selling when we talk about all of our business in general. So the levers are the ones that we already know: growing intermediation margin, the continuity of our activity level, growing different lines, the fee income, et cetera, growing the insurance group, and all of the other subsidiaries we have.

因此，在我們加入汽車平台之後，也在客戶體驗中加入了可選擇參與汽車保險的可能性。因此，我們透過自有通路銷售汽車保險的滲透率提高了。就整體業務而言，我們在交叉銷售方面也在成長。所以槓桿（成長動能）就是我們已經熟悉的那些：提升中介利差、維持我們的活動水準、擴張不同業務線、手續費收入等，推動保險集團成長，以及我們擁有的其他所有子公司。

So we have a business diversification that is unparalleled. And this is also what distinguishes us from other players. So we will continue to grow in all these lines with a portfolio that is a very good quality. There is no comparison to what we had in the past. So we are very confident about our portfolio. Cost of risk may grow, but we are growing in other credit lines. It doesn't mean that our provision level is low.

因此，我們的業務多元化是無可比擬的，這也是我們與其他同業的差異所在。我們將持續在所有這些業務線成長，且投資組合品質非常好，與過去相比不可同日而語。因此，我們對投資組合非常有信心。風險成本可能會上升，但我們也在其他信貸產品線成長。這並不代表我們的提存水準偏低。

And as Andre was saying, there are some moves in the structured portfolio that it puts down provisions. So you have ups and downs the entire time depending on the stages, in particularly for the restructured portfolio. And as I was saying, we dropped that portfolio by -- from December '23 until March of this year by BRL14 million. And if you look at the restructured portfolio in red, you see that there was a drop of BRL15 million, meaning that the provisioning level was also down.

而且如 Andre 所說，結構性投資組合中有一些調整動作會降低提存。因此，你會看到隨著不同階段而持續出現起伏，特別是針對重組投資組合。正如我所說，我們在今年 3 月相較於 2023 年 12 月，將該投資組合降低了 1,400 萬巴西雷亞爾（BRL14 million）。如果你看紅色的重組投資組合，你會看到下降了 1,500 萬巴西雷亞爾（BRL15 million），這意味著提存水準也下降了。

So this is what I see. I don't know if you want to add anything else. There is more -- there are more secured loans, 60% -- I think almost 61% of secured loans in individuals, almost 70%. So our portfolio now is much healthier. So that we are not posting extraordinary margins. That's why we are growing gradually, but at the same time, growing NII and other revenue streams. So thank you again for joining us. All the best.

這就是我的看法。我不知道你是否還想補充其他內容。還有更多——更多的擔保貸款，個人客戶中擔保貸款占比 60%——我想接近 61%，幾乎 70%。因此，我們現在的投資組合健康得多。也因此我們不會呈現異常的利差。這就是為什麼我們是逐步成長，但同時也在提升淨利息收入（NII）與其他收入來源。再次感謝你加入我們。祝一切順利。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

Tito Labarta，高盛（Goldman Sachs）。

Thank you, Andre. Nice to see you, Marcelo, Cassiano. Thanks for taking my question as well. Just one follow-up question on capital. And I also echo the congratulations on the healthcare spin-off, definitely good to see that boost in capital there and the bank is in a good capital position.

謝謝你，Andre。很高興見到你，Marcelo、Cassiano。也謝謝你們回答我的問題。我只有一個關於資本的追問。我也呼應大家對醫療保健業務分拆（spin-off）的祝賀，確實很高興看到資本因此獲得提升，而且銀行的資本狀況也很不錯。

I guess one lingering concern talking to some investors this morning, when do you think the bank, in and of itself, aside from -- you have the healthcare and some of the other subsidiaries. The bank can generate capital organically on its own, right?

我想今天早上和一些投資人交流時，仍有一個揮之不去的疑慮：你們認為銀行本身——撇除醫療保健以及其他一些子公司——銀行可以靠自身有機地產生資本，對吧？

Because Andre, you mentioned by yearend, you'll also be around this 12.7%. And I know it will be a function of ROE continuing to improve, which you continue to deliver on. But just when do you think you'll be at that point? Is it 2027 or 2028? Or what else needs to happen so that the bank on a standalone basis is organically generating that capital? Thank you.

因為 Andre，你提到到年底你們也會在大約 12.7% 左右。我知道這會取決於 ROE 持續改善，而你們也一直在交出成績。但你們認為什麼時候會到達那個點？是 2027 或 2028 嗎？或還需要發生什麼，才能讓銀行在單一主體（standalone）基礎上有機地產生那樣的資本？謝謝。

Thank you, Tito. Good to see you again. Andre, it's up to you first, then I can comment.

謝謝你，Tito。很高興再次見到你。Andre，先請你回答，之後我再補充。

We are already generating capital organically. And this is important to say because every quarter, we show our -- the contribution of our net income. And this continue to occur. And we're gradually increasing and improving net income. You see a higher contribution coming from organic capital generation. So this is point one.

我們已經在有機地產生資本。這點很重要，因為每一季我們都會展示——淨利對資本的貢獻，而這一直在發生。我們正逐步提高並改善淨利，你會看到來自有機資本生成的貢獻更高。因此，這是第一點。

Point two, it's important to highlight that here, we have some government regulatory measures that were enforced in 2025. But it will last until 2028 and they consume a bit more capital, especially in the beginning of the year, and this will end in 2028.

第二點，需要強調的是，我們這裡有一些在 2025 年實施的政府監管措施。但它會持續到 2028 年，並會消耗更多資本，尤其是在年初，而這些措施將在 2028 年結束。

So we will add up a higher organic capacity to grow. And with the end of the regulatory measures, our capital position will be even more robust with 12.7% of CET1. If this level remains the same by the end of the year, we will build a bridge to cross all of the regulatory -- to go over all the regulatory changes, and we will be able to grow and also transform the company.

因此，我們將具備更高的有機成長能力。隨著監管措施結束，我們的資本狀況將更為穩健，CET1 將達到 12.7%。如果到年底這個水準維持不變，我們將建立一座橋樑以跨越所有監管——以因應所有監管變動，並且我們將能夠成長，也能推動公司轉型。

Yes, you said it all, Andre. You already answered, but there is another point here because, in fact, it goes beyond that 13% if you look at it individually. But we have a very complex conglomerate. Here, we have a large insurance group, and there are other financial institutions that are connected to the conglomerate. And there are different distribution agreements that they are also more efficient to us, one way or another.

是的，Andre，你都說到了。你已經回答了，但這裡還有另一點：事實上，如果單獨來看，它會超過 13%。但我們是一個非常複雜的企業集團。我們有一個大型保險集團，並且還有其他與集團相連的金融機構。同時也有不同的通路合作協議，無論以何種方式，對我們而言都更有效率。

So if I put everything together, this ROE would also be higher, but we have to look at the organization as a whole, and then we can guarantee this return of 15.8% against a cost of capital that should range close to 18%. So thank you for your question. We are moving on, very confident in terms of what we are building, not only in the present but also in the future. Thank you, Tito, and have a good -- very good.

因此，如果我把所有因素放在一起，這個 ROE 也會更高，但我們必須從整體組織來看，然後我們才能確保 15.8% 的報酬率，相對於資本成本應接近 18% 的區間。謝謝你的提問。我們對正在打造的一切非常有信心，不僅是現在，也包括未來。謝謝你，Tito，祝你有個——非常好。

Thank you, Tito. And with that, we conclude the Q&A session. Before turning the floor over to Marcelo and Cassiano for their final remarks, I would like to say that all questions that cannot be answered today will be answered by our IR team. And in our IR website, we have all the material related to this presentation. Everything is there for your analysis. And we are certainly available to answer any further questions.

謝謝你，Tito。至此，我們結束問答環節。在把時間交給 Marcelo 和 Cassiano 做最後結語之前，我想說，今天無法回答的所有問題都將由我們的投資人關係（IR）團隊回覆。在我們的 IR 網站上，也有與本次簡報相關的所有資料，供你們分析。一如既往，我們也願意回答任何進一步的問題。

So thank you, Andre. Thank you, Cassiano. Thank you, Marinelli and Ney, who are also engaged here with us. Thank you, all the teams that made this event possible. I would like just to emphasize something that Andre said before. Our IR team and our colleagues in the financial area are available to answer all your questions about capital or about any other items on our balance sheet. So thank you so much for being so patient for joining us today, and we will see you soon or in our next earnings release presentation. Thank you very much.

因此，謝謝你，Andre。謝謝你，Cassiano。也謝謝 Marinelli 和 Ney，他們也在此與我們一同參與。謝謝所有讓本次活動得以成行的團隊。我想再強調 Andre 先前提到的一點：我們的 IR 團隊以及財務領域的同仁，隨時可以回答你們所有關於資本或資產負債表上任何其他項目的問題。非常感謝大家今天耐心參與，我們很快會再見，或在下一次財報發布簡報中再會。非常感謝。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本逐字稿中的英文陳述由現場電話會議中的口譯員翻譯。該口譯員由主辦本活動的公司提供。