Banco Bradesco SA (BBD) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

(interpreted) Good day everyone, I am Marcelo Noronha and I am here at the headquarters of Banco Bradesco (inaudible) on a Thursday, May 8, 2025. It is now precisely 10:31 A.M. It is a pleasure to be here with you to disclose Bradesco earnings in the first quarter of 2025. So thank you very much for all of you who are joining us.

(翻譯) 大家好，我是馬塞洛·諾羅尼亞 (Marcelo Noronha)，2025 年 5 月 8 日星期四，我在布拉德斯科銀行 (Banco Bradesco) 總部 (聽不清)。現在正是上午 10:31。很高興在這裡與大家一起公佈Bradesco 2025年第一季的收益。非常感謝各位的參與。

So I'll start speaking about our net income. You probably all had an opportunity to read the earnings release last night. Almost BRL5.9 billion recurring net income, growing more than 39% year-on-year and 8.6% quarter onwards with this level of ROAE of 14.4%. It is obvious that this result of the net income is but a consequence, I will speak about the causes.

那麼我將開始談論我們的淨收入。大家可能都有機會閱讀昨晚的財報。經常性淨收入接近 59 億巴西雷亞爾，年成長超過 39%，本季成長 8.6%，ROAE 水準為 14.4%。顯然，淨收入的這個結果只是一個結果，我來談談原因。

The main drivers being revenue in three different pillars, which I will comment on momentarily. And with a very safe portfolio, intensive use of technology helping to increase our productivity and of course, with a strong result from the insurance group.

主要驅動因素是三個不同支柱的收入，我稍後會對此發表評論。憑藉非常安全的投資組合，科技的密集使用有助於提高我們的生產力，當然，保險集團也取得了強勁的業績。

So these are the pillars of revenue, which are also a consequence. In a moment, I will speak about what's driving each one of these pillars but total revenue was BRL32 billion, growing 15% year-on-year. We have this absolute growth seen on the chart below. So total net interest 13.7% increase, year-on-year, 1.4% increase, quarter-on-quarter fee and commission income increasing 10.3% and insurance growing 32.7% year-on-year.

所以這些是收入的支柱，也是一個結果。稍後我將討論推動每個支柱發展的因素，但總收入為 320 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 15%。我們在下圖中看到了絕對成長。因此，總淨利息成長13.7%，年增1.4%，手續費及佣金收入較上季成長10.3%，保險收入年增32.7%。

So we get to the first item or topic, which is driving our NII, net of provisions. Expanded loan portfolio totaled BRL1 trillion, growing 12.9% year-on-year, 2.4% quarter-on-quarter excluding John Deere Bank. The growth would be so significant, 11%. And we can see in the charts, the level of growth that we had in each one of these segments of the loan book.

因此，我們討論第一項或主題，即推動我們的國家資訊基礎設施淨額撥備。擴大後的貸款組合總額達 1 兆巴西雷亞爾，年增 12.9%，不包括約翰迪爾銀行 (John Deere Bank) 則較上季成長 2.4%。成長幅度非常顯著，達到 11%。我們可以在圖表中看到貸款帳簿各個部分的成長水準。

Individuals was 16.2% with a relative growth that is [growing] and micro, small and medium-sized enterprises almost growing almost 30% year-on-year. Wholesale bank are growing 1.2% and if we didn't have the exchange in depreciation, this number would be higher.

個人貸款成長16.2%，中小微型企業貸款成長近30%。批發銀行成長了 1.2%，如果沒有匯率貶值，這個數字會更高。

But hearing the wholesale bank, as I normally say, we got a lot of traction in each one of the segments of the whole (inaudible) Bank. But there are quarters with a BRL10 billion increase. And in another quarter, a decrease of BRL10 billion for simple reason, the capital markets here, [DCM] is very active. A lot of company getting loans. We are having issuances, we are participating in those. And we also have the secondary market with our origination book for distribution.

但正如我通常所說，聽到批發銀行的消息，我們在整個（聽不清楚）銀行的每個部分都取得了很大的進展。但有些季度的增幅甚至達到 100 億雷亞爾。而在另一個季度，減少了 100 億巴西雷亞爾，原因很簡單，這裡的資本市場 [DCM] 非常活躍。許多公司獲得貸款。我們正在發行債券，我們正在參與其中。我們還有二級市場和分銷起源書。

If you look at the main publication, you will see a (inaudible) reduction of the wholesale bank of BRL7 billion year-on-year. May I draw your attention to this. In (inaudible) ROAE of 14.4%, which by the way when we communicated our results on February 8, 2024. The cost of risk -- the cost of equity was below 15%.

如果你看一下主要出版物，你會看到批發銀行的存款比去年同期減少了 70 億巴西雷亞爾（聽不清楚）。請允許我提請您注意這一點。(聽不清楚) ROAE 為 14.4%，順便說一下，這是我們在 2024 年 2 月 8 日公佈的結果。風險成本－股權成本低於15%。

Today, we would be above the cost of capital but we are not worried about that. We're looking forward because we have much greater ambitions and gradually, we will achieve them. So looking at our loan book, we have traction in all of the business units and business segments, but our credit business unit has very important deliveries.

今天，我們的成本可能會高於資本成本，但我們並不擔心這一點。我們充滿期待，因為我們有更大的抱負，而且我們會逐步實現它們。因此，從我們的貸款帳簿來看，我們在所有業務部門和業務部門都有所發展，但我們的信貸業務部門的交付非常重要。

We increased our headcount. We have intensive use of machine learning, better credit modeling, better credit policies. And in the last quarter of 2024 is that our risk appetite was more moderate for the year of 2025, and that continues to apply. And we adjust our models all the time and we assess this relationship of the team led by Andre at the business unit, and each one of the segment heads, they have an excellent communication.

我們增加了員工人數。我們大量使用機器學習、更好的信用模型、更好的信用政策。2024 年最後一個季度，我們對 2025 年的風險偏好更加溫和，這種情況將繼續持續下去。我們一直在調整我們的模型，並評估由 Andre 領導的業務部門團隊與每個部門負責人之間的關係，他們之間的溝通非常順暢。

We don't have a lot of discussions to step on the brakes when we need to hold back a little or the opposite, so that we can have a risk-adjusted return, RAR, so we're working with the ratings. And we have a lot of growth in collateralized portfolios, so I'd like to draw the attention to that. Individuals grow 16.2%, rural loans posted a significant growth for farmers, capital raisers.

我們並沒有進行太多的討論，例如什麼時候需要稍微放慢速度，或者相反，這樣我們就可以獲得風險調整後的回報 RAR，所以我們正在根據評級進行工作。我們的抵押投資組合有很大的成長，所以我想提請大家注意這一點。個人貸款成長16.2%，農民、融資者的農村貸款大幅成長。

So this portfolio is 100% collateralized. Real estate financing, you just have to look at our LTV of origination, about 61%, you can find this in the main publication and in the portfolio, close to 52%. We continue to grow payroll deductible loans. Here for payroll deductible loans among the private banks, we have the highest share, 14.3%. And here, we see an avenue of opportunities.

因此，該投資組合的抵押率為 100%。房地產融資，你只需要看看我們的發起 LTV，大約是 61%，你可以在主要出版物和投資組合中找到這個數字，接近 52%。我們繼續增加薪資扣除貸款。在私人銀行的薪資扣除貸款中，我們的份額最高，為 14.3%。在這裡，我們看到了一條充滿機會的道路。

For personal loans, we have good ratings. We follow the vintages, one by one, and we have been growing with a lot of quality. And part of this is FGTS guaranteed. Credit cards growing in high income segment. This is where we see here. In the open market, we have been a lot more conservative regarding loans and for CDC. We also posted an important growth, another collateralized portfolio.

對於個人貸款，我們的評級良好。我們逐一追蹤葡萄酒的年份，並不斷提高品質。其中一部分由 FGTS 保證。信用卡在高收入人群中日益增長。這就是我們在這裡看到的。在公開市場上，我們對貸款和 CDC 的態度更加保守。我們也公佈了一項重要成長，即另一個抵押投資組合。

I spoke about micro and SMEs posting a 3.5% growth quarter-on-quarter and almost 30% year-on-year. And what has driven this for the company's working capital. This is growth which is fully collateralized. I'm speaking about receivables and speaking about FGO and FGI, where we have a lot of traction as I mentioned, in the past quarter.

我談到微型和中小型企業季度環比成長 3.5%，年成長近 30%。以及是什麼原因推動了公司的營運資金？這是有充分抵押的增長。我談論的是應收帳款以及 FGO 和 FGI，正如我所提到的，在過去的一個季度，我們在這些方面取得了巨大的進展。

Same for rural loans, CDC and foreign trade finance. So we are very certain about what we are doing. We have consistent growth with an adequate RAR for our clients and for our business lines. And of course, this drive, this distribution capability combined with good models, good policies, good process would not be effectively used if we didn't have a solid client base, a high penetration in all client segments and commercial capability to make the business happen, not just with our army of managers in each one of the segments and they've been working really well with very high engagement, but also counting on our digital channels and better CRM supporting all client segments.

農村貸款、CDC和外貿融資也是如此。所以我們對自己所做的事情非常確定。我們保持著持續的成長，並為我們的客戶和業務線提供了充足的 RAR。當然，如果我們沒有穩固的客戶基礎、在所有客戶細分領域的高滲透率以及實現業務的商業能力，那麼這種動力、這種分銷能力以及良好的模式、良好的政策和良好的流程就無法得到有效利用，不僅因為我們在各個細分領域都有一支管理團隊，而且他們的工作非常出色，參與度很高，而且還依靠我們的數字渠道和更好的細分市場。

So we grew based on the asset portfolio. Our net interest income growing almost 14% year-on-year. And with a positive combination of cost of risk, we can see here, 3% it is absolutely stable. And with this, we had an NII, net of provisions of BRL9.6 billion, growing 30% year-over-year. And we also had a good performance in our market NII. And the main driver here was ALM, and I was telling some colleagues in our internal presentation last night and told them our ALM continues to work and work really well.

因此，我們根據資產組合實現了成長。我們的淨利息收入較去年同期成長近14%。並且，透過與風險成本的正向組合，我們可以看到，3% 是絕對穩定的。這樣，我們的淨國家利息收入（扣除撥備）就達到了 96 億巴西雷亞爾，年增 30%。我們的市場NII也表現良好。這裡的主要驅動力是 ALM，昨晚我在內部演示中告訴一些同事，我們的 ALM 繼續發揮作用，並且運作良好。

We had volatility in Brazil in the last six months. And this gives us an opportunity to make some moves working not just during the quarter, and they did that from January to March, but also looking forward and focusing on the first quarter of 2025.

過去六個月巴西經歷了動盪。這使我們有機會採取一些行動，不僅在本季度，而且從 1 月到 3 月也是如此，而且還展望並關注 2025 年第一季。

We had high activity with a lot of traction in the wholesale bank, and that creates a lot of business for our client desk. And of course, there is a pass-through for trading, via trading, the more activity or treasury activity we have with the wholesale bank, the more successful the trading is. And there was a third line item, which was smaller, and that is developing with good origination is the energy trading desk.

我們在批發銀行的業務活動非常活躍，這為我們的客戶部門創造了大量業務。當然，透過交易，交易有一個傳遞過程，我們與批發銀行進行的活動或財務活動越多，交易就越成功。還有第三個項目，規模較小，但發展良好，即能源交易部門。

It's not as material as trading or ALM for us, but still we have that energy desk. Client NII, BRL16.82 billion and growing 15.5% year-on-year. NII increasing to 8.6% from 8.4%. And more than this important growth, in my view, is the consistent growth of our client NII, quarter after quarter and with quality in our loan book, and we are going to explain that more. And also client NII net of provisions grew 36% year-on-year, 5% quarter-on-quarter.

對我們來說，它並不像交易或 ALM 那麼重要，但我們仍然有能源部門。客戶NII為168.2億巴西雷亞爾，年增15.5%。NII從8.4%上升至8.6%。在我看來，比這一重要成長更重要的是我們客戶 NII 的持續成長，一個季度又一個季度，而且我們的貸款帳簿品質也很好，我們將對此進行進一步解釋。客戶NII扣除撥備後年增36%，季增5%。

And again, we'll look at the bar chart, and we see consistent growth in terms of our client NII net of provisions, because this is a bearing on our bottom line. The quality of our portfolio is not debatable. We have an over 90-day delinquency totally under control. We have the share of the loan portfolio by stages already with resolution 4966.

再次，我們看一下長條圖，我們可以看到客戶 NII 撥備淨額持續成長，因為這對我們的底線有影響。我們的投資組合的品質是無可爭議的。我們已經完全控制了超過 90 天的拖欠情況。我們已經根據第 4966 號決議分階段分配了貸款組合份額。

So we have some additional regulatory topics, imposed to buy the Brazilian Central Bank. But the way we see this, 92% of our portfolio is on stages 1 and 2 and with a higher proportion. And in the Stage 3 portfolio, 35% are up to date. So they are paying and also in terms of collateralized portfolio, we have this 54% to 57% in percentage with guarantees. When we focus more on loan origination, this number is even more important for us.

因此，我們有一些額外的監管主題，旨在收購巴西中央銀行。但我們認為，我們投資組合的 92% 處於第一階段和第二階段，而且比例更高。在第三階段的投資組合中，35% 是最新的。所以他們正在付款，而且就抵押投資組合而言，我們有 54% 到 57% 的擔保比例。當我們更加關注貸款發放時，這個數字對我們來說就更為重要。

Another important element to highlight here in this quarter is exactly the restructured or renegotiated portfolio, whatever you prefer to call it, but this is a legal obligation by resolution of 4966 restructured portfolio, problematic assets cured operations.

本季要強調的另一個重要因素是重組或重新談判的投資組合，無論你怎麼稱呼它，但這是透過解決 4966 個重組投資組合、問題資產治癒操作而產生的法律義務。

So regarding resolution 4966, it's important to tell our investors, buy side and sell side that this has -- that the resolution has its own characteristics, and it forces market players to treat certain elements in a certain way. This is in the complete publication in our explanatory notes. It explains each one of these concepts and our team is available to you to discuss these items whenever you feel like it.

因此，關於第 4966 號決議，我們必須告訴我們的投資者，無論是買方還是賣方，這項決議都有其自身的特點，它迫使市場參與者以某種方式對待某些因素。這是我們註釋中的完整出版物。它解釋了每一個概念，我們的團隊可以隨時與您討論這些項目。

So what I would like to stress here is that in the year 2024, we had a total portfolio of BRL39 billion. We reduced BRL4.5 billion, and we get to this total portfolio in December. So we reduced BRL4.5 billion in 2024. In one quarter, in Q1 '25, we reduced about BRL3 billion, two-third of what we reduced throughout 2024. So we are trending towards an even smaller portfolio considering these criteria.

所以我想在這裡強調的是，到 2024 年，我們的投資組合總額將達到 390 億巴西雷亞爾。我們減少了 45 億巴西雷亞爾，並在 12 月達到了這個總投資組合。因此我們在 2024 年減少了 45 億巴西雷亞爾。在 2025 年第一季度，我們減少了約 30 億巴西雷亞爾，佔 2024 年全年減少金額的三分之二。因此，考慮到這些標準，我們傾向於規模較小的投資組合。

Another growth driver of our result is the set of fee and commission income. As you can see, I'm not going to address each one of the topics, but we grew practically in all of the items. We have higher activity even in card income that is growing here in the best portfolios of middle income, high income, but we have two topics, which I would like to underscore.

我們業績成長的另一個動力是手續費及佣金收入。正如你所看到的，我不會討論每一個主題，但我們實際上在所有項目上都有所進步。即使在信用卡收入方面，我們的活動也更高，在中等收入、高收入的最佳投資組合中，信用卡收入也在成長，但我們有兩個主題，我想強調一下。

Consistent growth of our consortium business and also asset management and capital markets. Our Investment Banking grew year-over-year 76% and we continue to have a robust pipeline. So we're continuing to give this business more traction to do business in our wholesale bank, combining all wholesale segments with our IB both in terms of fixed income and M&A and repo operations.

我們的財團業務以及資產管理和資本市場持續成長。我們的投資銀行業務年增 76%，我們持續擁有強勁的業務管道。因此，我們將繼續增加對這項業務的吸引力，使其在我們的批發銀行中開展業務，將所有批發業務部門與我們的 IB 結合起來，包括固定收益、併購和回購業務。

So this is another driver of revenue that brings us results and it is boosted by our commercial activity and our relationship with our clients. Operating expenses. As you saw 12% growth year-over-year, a reduction of 8.6% quarter-on-quarter, and I'll speak about this. So we have been reviewing our footprint with a lot of discipline and organization, achieving numbers that are higher than what we have planned.

因此，這是為我們帶來業績的另一個收入驅動因素，並且得益於我們的商業活動和與客戶的關係。營業費用。正如你所看到的，年增12%，環比下降8.6%，我會就此發表看法。因此，我們一直在嚴格規範和組織地審查我們的足跡，以實現高於我們計劃的數字。

We had close to 1,400 branches closed. So I have been mentioning this to you quarter-on-quarter. We have to include Cielo and Alelo. Part of Cielo is in Alelo. I'm talking about Alelo, Cielo, (inaudible) and Cielo itself. The growth of our revenue is 8.8%, but we integrate everything in our balance sheet. And when we look at personnel and administrative expenses, we will look at the growth year-on-year, so lower than inflation. So I have a lot of control here.

我們關閉了近 1,400 家分行。因此，我每個季度都向你們提到這一點。我們必須包括 Cielo 和 Alelo。Cielo 的一部分位於 Alelo。我說的是 Alelo、Cielo、（聽不清楚）以及 Cielo 本身。我們的收入成長了8.8%，但我們把所有收入都納入了資產負債表中。當我們查看人事和管理費用時，我們會看到同比增長，因此低於通貨膨脹率。所以我在這裡有很大的控制權。

But it is also important to highlight that this is not bad, it's good. We have a transformation process underway at Cielo. We have been investing in Livelo and the other companies as well. They've been bringing revenues and results to us. it's accelerated, distribution is good.

但同樣需要強調的是，這並不是壞事，而是好事。Cielo 正在進行轉型過程。我們也一直在投資 Livelo 和其他公司。它們一直在為我們帶來收入和成果。它加速了，分佈很好。

Our insurance group continues to bring results. We have a smaller set of employees with the insurance group some more because they are also investing in growth just as our related companies. We also grew in technology. In our credit business unit, in our CRM, data analytics department in the enterprise segment, in the principal segment, in our corporate segment, which is our middle market. So we continue to invest but expenses under control.

我們的保險集團持續取得成果。我們保險集團的員工人數較少，因為他們也像我們的相關公司一樣在投資成長。我們的技術也得到了發展。在我們的信貸業務部門、我們的 CRM、企業部門的資料分析部門、本金部門、公司部門，也就是我們的中端市場。因此我們繼續投資，但控制開支。

Now the insurance group, we also see a lot of traction. I'd like to highlight two drivers. The ROAE very high, 22.4% and this growth year-over-year 25.3%, reaching BRL30 billion revenue from insurance premium, pension contributions and capitalization buys. So as you can see here, our technical provisions are now [JPY414 billion], growing a bit more than 11% year-over-year.

現在，我們也看到保險集團的許多發展勢頭。我想強調兩個驅動因素。ROAE 非常高，為 22.4%，年增 25.3%，來自保險費、退休金繳款和資本化購買的收入達到 300 億巴西雷亞爾。正如您所看到的，我們的技術準備金現在為 [4,140 億日圓]，年增率略高於 11%。

And two main drivers here, good management in each one of the pillars, a very good combined ratio in each business line and commercial capability using external channels and internal channels, increasing our penetration in the customer base and bringing revenue growth from the insurance group.

這裡有兩個主要驅動因素：每個支柱的良好管理、每個業務線的良好綜合成本率以及利用外部管道和內部管道的商業能力，從而提高我們在客戶群中的滲透率並帶來保險集團的收入成長。

And now talking about capital ratios, the basal ratio has grown 13%. And we see the JCP limit will be distributed throughout the year. Our guidance for 2025 as we look at this guidance, I mean, we have an annual guidance. So that's for the whole year of 2025. However, we are trending towards delivering this guidance.

現在談到資本比率，基礎比率增加了 13%。我們看到 JCP 限制將會全年分佈。當我們看這個指導時，我們對 2025 年的指導是，我的意思是，我們有一個年度指導。這就是 2025 年全年的情況。然而，我們正傾向於提供這種指導。

At the end of this presentation, I'll make a few comments about this again. And so let me now move on to our final slides. Talking about our strategy. First, Bradesco Principal. We launched this initiative in October last year with three offices we wanted to reach 50,000 customers, and we have done so.

在本次演講結束時，我將再次對此發表一些評論。現在讓我進入我們的最後一張投影片。談論我們的策略。首先，Bradesco 銀行的校長。我們於去年 10 月在三個辦事處啟動了這項計劃，目標是覆蓋 50,000 名客戶，而且我們已經做到了。

We now have approximately 50,000 clients. We will now open 45 new offices this year, expanding service and the managed model for the middle market and core operations with more than 10 different platforms for the middle market. That has helped us grow our assets and the relationships with small and medium-sized enterprises.

我們現在有大約 50,000 名客戶。我們今年將開設 45 個新辦事處，擴大針對中端市場的服務和管理模式，並透過 10 多個不同的平台開展核心業務。這有助於我們增加資產並加強與中小企業的關係。

We are leaders in this segment, and we continue to grow with secure loans with a very safe low in portfolio, and we continue in our cultural evolution with O Bradesco. More than 1,400 people have been hired in tech, and there are two more elements I'd like to speak about.

我們是這一領域的領導者，我們繼續透過具有非常安全的低投資組合的安全貸款實現成長，並且我們繼續與 O Bradesco 一起進行文化變革。科技領域已聘用了 1,400 多人，我還想談兩個面向。

Productivity intact, we've been able to reduce the delivery lead time by 32%. And this delivery, I mean, in terms of applications, we've grown more than 53%. And in terms of business development hours, not only because we have a greater team, but also because we've improved productivity. And now everyone is making intensive use of GenAI, including copilot very much connected to our tech modernization initiative. We have enterprise agility with our tax (inaudible) throughout all levels of the organization.

在生產力保持不變的情況下，我們能夠將交貨時間縮短 32%。就應用而言，我們的交付量成長了 53% 以上。就業務開發時間而言，不僅因為我們擁有更大的團隊，還因為我們提高了生產力。現在每個人都在密集使用 GenAI，包括與我們的技術現代化計劃密切相關的 Copilot。我們在組織的各個層面都具有企業敏捷性，稅金（聽不清楚）。

And our developers are using our Gen AI, we call BIA tech. So one thing is BIA GenAI that is already serving 768,000 customers. Very soon, all our customers will be able to use our new BIA. But we have our corporate for employees which reads and raise our stories and that has improved our productivity significantly. We've had a 46% efficiency gain in our developments.

我們的開發人員正在使用我們的 Gen AI，我們稱之為 BIA 技術。因此，BIA GenAI 已經為 768,000 名客戶提供服務。很快，我們所有的客戶都將能夠使用我們的新 BIA。但是我們有自己的員工公司，他們閱讀並傳播我們的故事，這大大提高了我們的生產力。我們的開發效率提高了 46%。

So we are using Gen AI intensely to build our path towards using multi agents. So we set up a squad with 8 or 10 employees. A developer, someone for product, and you will have one specific GenAI for each pillar. So all these squads will be using GenAI to improve our productivity significantly. So we can certainly provide more color on this if you have any questions.

因此，我們正在大力使用 Gen AI 來建造使用多代理的道路。因此我們成立了一個由 8 到 10 名員工組成的團隊。一名開發人員、一名產品人員，以及每個支柱都有一個特定的 GenAI。因此，所有這些小組都將使用 GenAI 來顯著提高我們的生產力。因此，如果您有任何疑問，我們當然可以提供更多詳細資訊。

But I'd like to speak about all of these deliveries. Yesterday, we disclosed two very important points. First, we've promoted two of our colleagues to be directors in our legal department. (inaudible) who's been with us for a long time in the company. He's a very promising young attorney who will now take on all litigation activities in our legal department.

但我想談談所有這些交付。昨天我們揭露了兩點非常重要的資訊。首先，我們提拔了兩位同事擔任法律部門主管。 （聽不清楚）他已經在我們公司工作很久了。他是一位非常有前途的年輕律師，現在將負責我們法律部門的所有訴訟活動。

The other new director is a colleague who has a strong relationship with our customers in wealth, banking, and he is (inaudible) who will be your new legal director also supporting (inaudible) and all other business lines. For example, the investment bank needs a lot of support in writing contracts. And we have another Executive Director, who will join us to be part of the legal team, bringing his vast 35-year experience in one of the best law firms in Brazil being (inaudible) His name is Julio (inaudible) He will join the bank. He will start working with us as of July 1.

另一位新任董事是一位與我們的財富、銀行客戶關係密切的同事，他（聽不清楚）將擔任你們的新法律總監，同時支持（聽不清楚）和所有其他業務線。例如，投資銀行在簽訂合約方面需要很多支持。我們還有另一位執行董事，他將加入我們，成為法律團隊的一員，他在巴西最好的律師事務所之一擁有 35 年的豐富經驗（聽不清楚）他的名字是 Julio（聽不清楚）他將加入該銀行。他將從 7 月 1 日起開始與我們合作。

We feel proud of this new team leading our legal department, of course, with all other colleagues in our legal team at Bradesco. Now let me move on to my conclusions. Let me tell you that our net income growth is based on revenue, and that will continue. So revenue from different business lines and controlled expenses.

我們為領導我們法律部門的這個新團隊感到自豪，當然，還有 Bradesco 法律團隊的所有其他同事。現在讓我繼續討論我的結論。我告訴你，我們的淨收入成長是基於收入的，而且這種情況將會持續下去。因此，收入來自不同的業務線並控制費用。

Our loan book is under controlled our view based on RAR, looking at every vintage. So we continue to work very closely in our loan book because the quality of our assets is not negotiable. I always tell our team that quality of our assets is something we cannot negotiate. So that is why we have continued in this path step by step and a good track. And as you've seen, our transformation plan is now being executed in acceleration and very well done.

我們的貸款帳簿受到 RAR 的控制，我們查看每一個年份。因此，我們繼續密切關注我們的貸款事宜，因為我們的資產品質是不容商榷的。我總是告訴我們的團隊，我們的資產品質是不能談判的。所以，我們才一步步地沿著這條路走下去，走得非常好。如您所見，我們的轉型計劃正在加速執行，而且進展非常順利。

So thank you for being with us. Let me now invite by Cassiano Scarpelli and Andre Carvalho so that we can answer your questions. But I still have a few brief comments before I give you the floor, if I may. I mentioned our guidance. And now what happens with annual guidance.

感謝您與我們同在。現在我邀請 Cassiano Scarpelli 和 Andre Carvalho 來回答你們的問題。但如果可以的話，在發言之前我還有幾點簡短的評論。我提到了我們的指導。現在年度指導情況如何？

You've seen our expanded loan book, we have delivered above the guidance. The NII net of provisions also has a great number so you can project our trajectory in the next quarters. So we're delivering above the guidance. These numbers will trend towards the guidance. But one thing is for us to be at the top of the guidance.

您已經看到了我們擴大的貸款帳簿，我們的業績已經超出了預期。NII 淨撥備也有一個很大的數字，因此您可以預測我們未來幾季的發展軌跡。因此，我們的業績超出了預期。這些數字將趨向於指導值。但有一件事，那就是我們必須遵循指導方針。

The other thing is for us to be above the guidance. So if you look at these three lines, we are above the guidance. So that's the first thing we see. But so why don't you review the guidance? Well, because we are still within the ranges disclosed in the guidance.

另一件事就是我們要超出預期。因此，如果你看這三行，你會發現我們的業績已經超乎預期。這是我們看到的第一件事。但為什麼你不審查一下該指南呢？嗯，因為我們仍然在指南披露的範圍內。

However, if it's necessary, we will be willing to review the guidance in the second half of the year. The second comment I'd like to make, I had a conversation with journalists, and I got an interesting question from a journalist. I mean if we believe we will have growth of 8% or 10% quarter-on-quarter. I answered no, we continue to bet on slow consistent growth step by step. We have not changed our speech.

然而，如果有必要，我們願意在今年下半年重新審視該指引。我想說的第二點是，我與記者進行了交談，一位記者向我提出了一個有趣的問題。我的意思是，如果我們相信我們的季度環比成長率將達到 8% 或 10%。我的回答是，不，我們將繼續一步步押注緩慢持續的成長。我們沒有改變我們的講話。

We have a plan. We have not interrupted our investments. We continue to follow our plan with a lot of discipline. But my view is that right now, we are at the top of the basic interest rate, the (inaudible) rate. So the margins, the NIIs, they are more under stress when you were at the top of the guidance.

我們有一個計劃。我們沒有中斷投資。我們將繼續嚴格執行我們的計劃。但我的觀點是，目前我們處於基本利率的最高水平，即（聽不清楚）利率。因此，當你處於指導的頂部時，利潤率、NIIs 承受的壓力更大。

So what we expect is that there will be challenges in terms of NII. But my view for this year is much more favorable. If you want to look at the midpoint of the guidance, we are trending towards the top of the guidance. From the mid to the top of the guidance, I believe we will deliver a result above this guidance. So I do feel optimistic about our performance although we see a slower growth in the second half of the year.

因此，我們預期國家資訊基礎架構方面將面臨挑戰。但我對今年的看法更加樂觀。如果您想查看指導的中點，我們正趨向於指導的頂部。從指導的中期到頂部，我相信我們將實現高於該指導的結果。因此，儘管我們預計下半年的成長速度會有所放緩，但我對我們的業績仍然感到樂觀。

This is what our economists have told us but we still feel optimistic in terms of growth because we see lots of opportunities to continue to grow in individual loans, payroll deductible loans and regarding company customers. We can continue to grow loans with collaterals such as receivables, CGI, CGO.

這是我們的經濟學家告訴我們的，但我們對成長仍然感到樂觀，因為我們看到個人貸款、薪資扣款貸款和公司客戶方面有很多繼續成長的機會。我們可以繼續透過應收帳款、CGI、CGO 等抵押品來增加貸款。

So that will help us grow our NII. As we look at service and commission income, what are the founders and what is driving the growth? Well, by the midpoint of two, we may see a charge for instant transfers or BIX but we feel we are in a very comfortable position.

這將有助於我們發展國家資訊基礎結構。當我們看服務和佣金收入時，創辦人是誰以及推動成長的因素是什麼？好吧，到兩年的中點，我們可能會看到即時轉帳或 BIX 收費，但我們覺得我們處於非常舒適的位置。

Also, we will be launching a new cash model. And when I look at the bright side of growth, I can see payments growing healthily as the main driver in revenue from service and a few related companies such as the consortium and but also payments will bring us more commercial traction and revenue. The third point I'd like to mention is the investment bank. I said we have a robust pipeline. And I believe we will also deliver a good performance this year.

此外，我們將推出新的現金模型。當我看到成長的光明面時，我可以看到支付業務健康成長，成為服務收入的主要驅動力，一些相關公司（如財團）以及支付業務也將為我們帶來更多的商業吸引力和收入。第三點我想說的是投資銀行。我說過我們有一個強大的管道。我相信我們今年也會有很好的表現。

And the insurance group, I've already mentioned. So all in all, what drives our optimism is a very secure loan book, good credit lines, higher intermediation margins and more revenue from the insurance group. This is going to help us close a good year in 2025. That was it, Andre.

我已經提過保險集團。總而言之，讓我們感到樂觀的是安全的貸款帳簿、良好的信用額度、更高的中介利潤率以及來自保險集團的更多收入。這將有助於我們在 2025 年取得圓滿成功。就是這樣，安德烈。

(interpreted) (Operator Instructions)

（解釋）（操作員指令）

Tiago Batista, UBS Tiago.

蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔，瑞銀蒂亞戈。

(interpreted) Hi, how are you doing? Good morning. Congratulations on the results. I think it was very strong across the board. My question is about the ROI of the bank. Noronha, you mentioned an ROAE of 14.4%, and you said that you naturally aim for a much more robust return for the bank at the beginning, two or three years ago, you had said that the initial. Was to achieve the cost of capital but now you said you want to fly even higher.

（翻譯）嗨，你好嗎？早安.恭喜你取得這樣的成績。我認為它在各方面都非常強大。我的問題是關於銀行的投資報酬率。Noronha，您提到了 ROAE 為 14.4%，您說您一開始就自然而然地希望銀行獲得更強勁的回報，兩三年前您曾說過最初的。是為了實現資本成本，但現在你說你想飛得更高。

So my question is when we look at it by segments, we see the insurance group NOAE of 20%, which means that the banking operation has returned close to 10% or slightly under 10%. So what you still have to normalize? What are the main segments? Is it retail wholesale. SMEs, I mean, what are the big boxes that you have where you still see some room to bring the ROAE to a higher level?

所以我的問題是，當我們按細分市場來看時，我們發現保險集團的 NOAE 為 20%，這意味著銀行業務的回報率接近 10% 或略低於 10%。那你還需要規範什麼？主要分為哪些部分？是零售批發嗎？中小企業，我的意思是，您認為哪些大盒子仍有空間將 ROAE 提升到更高的水平？

(interpreted) I'll ask Cassiano to answer, but I'll start. Tiago, thank you for the question. It's a pleasure to have you on board. Well, it's basically mass retail. This cost to serve is something we've been correcting over time. This will bring us a different level of return, for example, the wholesale bank.

（翻譯）我會請卡西亞諾回答，但我先開始。蒂亞戈，謝謝你的提問。我很高興您能加入我們。嗯，它基本上是大眾零售。我們一直在不斷糾正這項服務成本。這會為我們帶來不同程度的回報，例如批發銀行。

The level of RER is high in all client segments that we have. I'm not talking about IB or global markets because that requires much less capital. Global private is high 30s to 40, high income. Segment the same, the principal clients, I mean, they are impressive in terms of the level of return we have, and that applies to prime as well.

我們所有客戶群的 RER 水準都很高。我並不是說 IB 或全球市場，因為這些需要的資本要少得多。全球私人年齡在30到40歲之間，收入較高。細分相同，主要客戶，我的意思是，就我們的回報水平而言，他們令人印象深刻，這也適用於主要客戶。

With SMEs, we reversed the trend and it's increasing. So that's what we are working on. And of course we're investing to gain productivity, as I mentioned. And Casiano, you can compliment.

對於中小企業來說，我們扭轉了這一趨勢，而且它還在不斷增長。這就是我們正在努力的事情。當然，正如我所提到的，我們投資是為了提高生產力。還有卡西亞諾，你可以稱讚一下。

(interpreted) No, that's exactly it. These are the levers. Productivity is one of them and of course the effect of our cost to serve in our mass retail. This is what's going to give us the final leap to improve our ROE. Tiago, thank you for the question.

（解釋）不，正是如此。這些就是槓桿。生產力是其中之一，當然還有我們大眾零售服務成本的影響。這將幫助我們實現 ROE 的最終提升。蒂亞戈，謝謝你的提問。

(interpreted) Daniel Vaz, Zafra.

（口譯）丹尼爾·瓦茲（Daniel Vaz），扎弗拉（Zafra）。

(interpreted) Good morning, Andrea, Noronha, Cassiano. Congratulations on the excellent result. It's clear that the bank has traction with good indicators. I'd like to take this moment with you to hear a bit about what we didn't read in the release, which is the part on private payroll deductible loan.

（口譯）早安，安德里亞、諾羅尼亞、卡西亞諾。恭喜你取得優異的成績。顯然，該銀行憑藉良好的指標獲得了良好的發展。我想藉此機會和大家了解我們在新聞稿中沒有讀到的內容，即有關私人工資扣除貸款的部分。

A lot of people are discussing products. I'd like to get your take on this because you have a big market share, about 15%. And in the traditional payroll deductible loan, so what will be the position of the bank? Will you have credibility of everything or how are you planning to operate in this segment?

很多人正在討論產品。我想聽聽你們對此的看法，因為你們的市佔率很大，大約 15%。那麼在傳統的薪資抵扣貸款中，銀行的地位又會如何呢？您是否對所有事情都具有可信度，或者您計劃如何在這個領域開展業務？

(interpreted) Thank you for the question. Well, I'm going to give you some of my own perspective. Anyway, here are some points in our review regarding that. Number one, we believe that here lies a great opportunity for Bradesco. You see we have 14.3% market share of payroll deductible loans in the public setting at different levels of government, INSS and private.

（翻譯）感謝您的提問。好吧，我將向你提供一些我自己的觀點。無論如何，以下是我們對此的評論中的一些要點。首先，我們相信這對 Bradesco 來說是一個絕佳的機會。您可以看到，我們在各級政府、INSS 和私營部門的公共環境中佔有 14.3% 的薪資扣除貸款市場份額。

But with private deductible loans our shares is lower, our share is much lower there. And private payroll deductible loans take up small space, just about 6% of the whole 14.3%. So among the private or deductible loans, we are the biggest in terms of share. So we understand that here there's a lot of growth coming from this. Perhaps the question should be, why is it private banks or perhaps the mainstream banks, incumbents have not yet presented a great origination here.

但在私人抵扣貸款中，我們的份額較低，我們的份額則低得多。而私人薪資抵扣貸款比例較小，僅佔整體14.3%的6%左右。因此，在私人貸款或可抵扣貸款中，我們的份額最大。因此，我們知道這將帶來很大的成長。或許問題應該是，為什麼私人銀行或主流銀行、現有銀行還沒有在這裡出現重大突破。

Well, there are some important variables here. Number one, the client base that already had a payroll deductible loan increased between 16 and 21 of April according to (inaudible) until then there was an origination of BRL8 billion. So from our standpoint, what we did was we had an initially defensive strategy. Other more active organizations might have operated with the agreements in force but using a new channel. And others did not see these clients or did not look at these clients that already had a payroll deductible loan.

嗯，這裡有一些重要的變數。第一，根據（聽不清楚）的數據，4 月 16 日至 21 日期間，已經擁有薪資扣除貸款的客戶群有所增加，截至當時，貸款總額已達 80 億巴西雷亞爾。因此從我們的角度來看，我們所做的就是製定最初的防禦策略。其他較活躍的組織可能會按照現行協議開展工作，但使用新的管道。而其他人則沒有看到這些客戶，或是沒有看這些已經擁有薪資扣除貸款的客戶。

So let's suppose you had an agreement with me. Bradesco had an agreement with your company. And then you will apply for a loan and perhaps an organization offered this loan to you. When that rate increases, there is no more margin. So this is credit with a clean risk.

假設你和我達成了協議。Bradesco 與貴公司達成協議。然後您將申請貸款，也許某個組織會向您提供這筆貸款。當該利率上升時，就沒有更多的利潤了。因此，這是具有乾淨風險的信貸。

And that's why some organizations, even smaller organizations, which are more focused, have offered a slightly higher price with smaller tickets. Yesterday, there was another meeting of the working group with a dotted (inaudible) federation of banks regarding portability of these loans. So this is an organization that is closing and of course, we will now move to a more aggressive active strategy rather than a defensive strategy regarding our client base and regarding the market. So we see a good growth expectation, perhaps starting June or July when everything is very well oiled. And I would like to add one element, Daniel, that I think I should remind you of.

這就是為什麼一些組織，甚至是一些規模較小、更專注的組織，會為較小的票提供略高的價格。昨天，工作小組與一個點狀（聽不清楚）銀行聯合會舉行了另一次會議，討論這些貸款的可轉移性。因此，這是一個即將關閉的組織，當然，我們現在將針對我們的客戶群和市場採取更積極的主動策略，而不是防禦策略。因此，我們看到了良好的成長預期，也許從六月或七月開始，當一切都運作良好時。丹尼爾，我想補充一點，我認為我應該提醒你。

We continue to have room to grow. In public, payroll deductible loan, INSS, deductible loan. But the level of delinquency of these two line items is a much lower delinquency level. I'm going to give you a general number, okay? A general market number.

我們仍有成長空間。在公共部門，薪資扣除貸款，INSS，扣除貸款。但這兩項的拖欠率要低得多。我會給你一個大概的數字，可以嗎？一個通用的市場號碼。

The over 90 NPO is probably 2%. In the case of private payroll deductible loans that we currently have, our delinquency is more than double that. So approval is not just of the individual. We take into account the individual and the company that pays the salary of this individual. But in the market, and this is marketing information is that the existing private deductible loans, I don't see this in the large banks.

超過90個NPO大概是2%。就我們目前的私人薪資扣除貸款而言，我們的拖欠率是這個數字的兩倍以上。因此，認可不只是個人的認可。我們考慮了個人和支付該個人薪水的公司。但在市場上，這是行銷訊息，現有的私人抵扣貸款，我在大型銀行沒有看到這種情況。

I think that the large banks have also a very low delinquency level. But I guess, it has a delinquency rate that is higher, close to 9%. So here, we have to work with good models looking at the individual and the company they work for. So these are variables on the table so that we can have the right pricing, okay Daniel? But we will be fighting for our market share.

我認為大型銀行的拖欠率也很低。但我估計，它的拖欠率更高，接近 9%。因此，在這裡，我們必須採用良好的模型來觀察個人及其所服務的公司。所以這些都是可以考慮的變量，以便我們能夠得到正確的定價，好嗎丹尼爾？但我們將為我們的市場份額而戰。

(interpreted) Okay, thank you very much.

（翻譯）好的，非常感謝。

(interpreted) Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

（翻譯）美國銀行馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

(interpreted) Good morning. Congratulations on the earnings. Now I'd like to hear a bit more from you about the insurance group. I believe the market does not yet appreciate the value of the insurance company growing 25% year on year and accounting for almost 40% of the net income we've seen lots of improvements.

（翻譯）早安。恭喜您盈利。現在我想聽聽您對保險集團的一些看法。我認為市場還沒有認識到保險公司的價值，該公司的年增長率為 25%，佔淨收入的近 40%，我們已經看到了許多改進。

The level of claims has fallen, that the claim ratio has fallen, so I'd like to hear from you whether you. Believe you can keep the same level of growth and the same level of claim rate so I mean, to what extent are these results sustainable?

索賠水準已經下降，索賠率也下降了，所以我想聽聽您的意見。相信您可以保持相同的增長水平和相同的索賠率，所以我的意思是，這些結果在多大程度上是可持續的？

(interpreted) Andre?

（翻譯）安德烈？

(interpreted) Yeah, Ivan is also here, but when we look at the insurance earnings, two-third came from production and one-third came from the financial portion, but production had a bigger weight and that's what provides us more confidence that this is sustainable so also you spoke about the improvement in the claim rate so of course you have some seasonal effects and a bit of volatility, but it's trending down because of investments we've been making for a number of years to improve the claim rate and we're now harvesting the benefits of this initiative, especially in health insurance so we (inaudible) towards a lower claim rate.

（翻譯）是的，伊万也在這裡，但是當我們看保險收入時，三分之二來自生產，三分之一來自財​​務部分，但生產佔比更大，這使我們更有信心這是可持續的，所以你也談到了索賠率的提高，所以當然你會有一些季節性的影響和一點波動，但由於我們多年來一直在投資索賠率，所以它呈下降，我們現在正在收穫下降，我們現在正在降低索賠的好處，所以

Actually the first quarter was not even so favorable, and we do have noise along the path, but there is a very good trend down the claim rate and because we have a lot of traction in sales again that is good for the insurance group because that will drive sales, that will drive the premium and bringing the claim rate down.

實際上，第一季的表現甚至不那麼理想，我們確實遇到了一些麻煩，但索賠率出現了非常好的下降趨勢，而且由於我們的銷售再次獲得了很大的增長，這對保險集團來說是件好事，因為這將推動銷售，從而提高保費並降低索賠率。

So that's the improvement we expect both in production and also in the financial portion with a higher basic interest rate so we believe the performance will remain consistent. We could see the ROAE 2.6% above the first quarter last year. After many years of improvement, we continue to improve, so insurance is one of the lines that Marcello highlights. We want to be closer to the top of the guidance at least above the midpoint.

因此，我們預計生產和金融部分都會有所改善，基本利率也會提高，因此我們相信業績將保持一致。我們可以看到 ROAE 比去年第一季高出 2.6%。經過多年的改進，我們仍在繼續改進，因此保險是 Marcello 重點關注的領域之一。我們希望至少接近指導的最高點，高於中點。

Mario, let me add, and also Ivan is here and he can also add if he wants, but here we see also our strategy, the associations we now have with hospitals to improve the efficiency of our health insurance we're growing our network. Work of health care providers and that also helps us control the claim rate and the cost so the combination of these figures give us excellent earnings and our concern in each one of the verticals we want to always work to improve our operation and a very strong distribution. I mean if you look at the future.

馬裡奧，讓我補充一下，伊万也在這裡，如果他願意的話他也可以補充，但在這裡我們也看到了我們的策略，我們現在與醫院的合作，以提高我們的健康保險效率，我們正在擴大我們的網絡。醫療保健提供者的工作也有助於我們控制索賠率和成本，因此這些數字的組合為我們帶來了出色的收益，並且我們對每個垂直領域的關注都希望始終努力改善我們的運營和非常強大的分銷。我的意思是如果你展望未來。

We do see room for more improvement. Also look at the penetration of insurance in the Brazilian GDP we have a lot of room for growth and I do believe we can have a higher penetration of insurance products and of course we will continue to work hard to improve this rate of insurance over the GDP and all our colleagues are working towards this. Same goal now Iva, do you want to add to this answer?

我們確實看到了更多改進的空間。另外看看保險在巴西 GDP 中的滲透率，我們還有很大的成長空間，我相信我們可以提高保險產品的滲透率，當然我們將繼續努力提高保險在 GDP 中的滲透率，我們所有的同事都在為此而努力。現在目標相同，Iva，你想補充這個答案嗎？

(interpreted) Thank you, Marcello. No, I believe Andrea provided a very thorough answer to Mario but if Mario has any further questions, I shall be available to help. I learned from you.

（翻譯）謝謝你，馬塞洛。不，我相信安德里亞已經為馬裡奧提供了非常詳盡的答案，但如果馬裡奧還有其他問題，我會隨時提供幫助。我向你學習。

(interpreted) Gustavo Schroden, Citibank.

（翻譯）花旗銀行的 Gustavo Schroden。

(interpreted) Hello, good morning. How are you? Congratulations on the earnings, it's very good to see this traction that the bank currently has. Now Marcelo, what is the level of comfort that you feel in terms of more growth in your loan portfolio? We can see the bank clearly has capacity to manage risk. And as you mentioned, delinquency is lower. The quality of the loans is a mantra for you, as you said, but I'm also looking at the country's economy, inflation up high interest rate.

（翻譯）你好，早安。你好嗎？恭喜您的獲利，很高興看到銀行目前擁有的這種吸引力。現在，馬塞洛，就您的貸款組合進一步增長而言，您感到的舒適程度如何？我們可以看到，該銀行明顯具有管理風險的能力。正如您所說，犯罪率較低。正如您所說，貸款品質是您的口頭禪，但我也在關注國家的經濟、通貨膨脹和高利率。

So what do you expect in the next 12 months looking outside the bank's borders because that may lead to a slower growth in the bank. So how do you view these aspects so that we can also feel confident that the macroeconomic factors will not go against your very well done work.

那麼，您對未來 12 個月銀行外部的情況有何預期？這可能會導致銀行成長放緩。那麼，您如何看待這些方面，以便我們也能相信宏觀經濟因素不會與您所做的出色工作背道而馳。

(interpreted) Thank you, Gustavo, for your question. I'll be very candid. Loan portfolio growth, as I said, our risk appetite remains moderate. Since the last quarter of last year, we said that. So one thing is risk appetite.

（翻譯）謝謝古斯塔沃的提問。我會非常坦誠。貸款組合成長，正如我所說，我們的風險偏好仍然適中。自去年最後一個季度以來，我們就這麼說了。所以一件事就是風險偏好。

The other thing is model adjustment, credit policy adjustment. So if you look at the concentration of loans, it is down in the largest customers, the concentration has fallen so although we have a moderate risk appetite, we see great opportunities because we have a large customer base because of our penetration capacity, but we want to grow in secured loans. In payroll deductible loans, we have 14% market share. So we have an opportunity to continue to grow regardless of macroeconomic factors. So private payroll deduct loans are also an opportunity.

另外就是模式調整、信貸政策調整。因此，如果你看一下貸款集中度，你會發現最大的客戶集中度下降了，因此，儘管我們的風險偏好適中，但我們看到了巨大的機會，因為我們擁有龐大的客戶群，這得益於我們的滲透能力，但我們希望在擔保貸款方面有所增長。在薪資扣除貸款方面，我們擁有 14% 的市場份額。因此，無論宏觀經濟因素如何，我​​們都有機會繼續成長。因此私人工資扣除貸款也是一個機會。

But in public payroll deductible loans, we still have lots of opportunities to grow. Let me remind you, our book is now about [JPY100 billion] in payroll deductible loans. The second front would be working with a group business, always customers with good credit ratings. I mean, in this segment of the economy, either cattle breeding or agriculture, when you look at the different segments, for example, corn, corn prices went up. They are now down closer to [50].

但在公共工資扣除貸款方面，我們仍有許多成長機會。讓我提醒你一下，我們現在的工資扣除貸款約為 [1000 億日元]。第二個方面是與集團企業合作，這些集團企業始終是信用評級良好的客戶。我的意思是，在經濟的這個領域，無論是畜牧業還是農業，當你觀察不同的部分時，例如玉米，玉米價格上漲了。他們現在更接近[50]。

But farmers are well compensated as well, sometimes we do see issues, but not now, we don't see any problems in terms of these prices now. So this market can bring us a lot of opportunity to grow our relationships with the current customer base. Even the (inaudible) Bank, we are now -- the two teams are now working together. We're reviewing the guidance for this year. And in terms of small companies, Gustavo -- in fact, I've shown you a ranking.

但農民也得到了豐厚的補償，有時我們確實看到問題，但現在沒有，我們現在沒有看到這些價格有任何問題。因此，這個市場可以為我們帶來許多機會來發展與現有客戶群的關係。即使是（聽不清楚）銀行，我們現在——兩個團隊正在合作。我們正在審查今年的指導方針。就小公司而言，Gustavo——事實上，我已經向你展示了一個排名。

While this information is open to the public. So looking at FGO and (inaudible) why don't you check the ranking of financial institutions. You will see Bradesco currently has a lot of traction so we keep a close eye on this market. And we're working with receivables, FGO, FGI in terms of collaterals. And the same thing, we want to grow agricultural loans, but always with collaterals.

雖然這些資訊是向公眾公開的。那麼看看 FGO 和（聽不清楚）為什麼不檢查金融機構的排名。您會發現 Bradesco 目前具有很大的發展勢頭，因此我們密切關注這個市場。我們正在處理應收帳款、FGO、FGI 等抵押品。同樣，我們希望增加農業貸款，但必須有抵押品。

So what do I see? I see that we have a great potential ahead of us. Obviously, when the economy grows slower, and that may happen in the second half of the year. So a few demands will be lower. But in these specific lines that I've mentioned, I have great confidence that this is the right track for us to deliver good margins and good net income even in the second half of the year without having any interruptions.

那我看到了什麼？我看到我們面前有著巨大的潛力。顯然，當經濟成長放緩時，這可能會在下半年發生。因此有些要求會較低。但在我提到的這些具體方面，我非常有信心，這是我們即使在下半年也能實現良好利潤率和良好淨收入的正確軌道，不會出現任何中斷。

So that's why I say the drivers are the three main lines. So always secured loan, loans with the right collaterals and all the activities that will be related to that. NPS, for example, these are the fees generated by our robust pipeline, which we've had even in the first quarter. So I do feel very confident. Why don't you have a look at the FGO ranking.

所以我說驅動因素是三條主線。因此，始終存在有擔保的貸款、具有正確抵押品的貸款以及與此相關的所有活動。例如，NPS 是我們強大的管道產生的費用，甚至在第一季我們就已經擁有了。所以我確實感到非常有信心。為什麼不看看FGO排名呢？

Last year, FGO plus FGI, these two collateral lines, these two guaranteed lines. We've had an origination of BRL89 billion I mean that's what the market did last year. These are numbers that you should watch and monitor and then you will understand what I say and possibly feel the same level of comfort as I feel, looking at the quality of our loan book. which, again, is not negotiable for us. So thank you, Gustavo, for the question.

去年，FGO 加上 FGI，這兩條附帶線，這兩條保證線。我們的資金已達 890 億巴西雷亞爾，我的意思是，這就是去年市場的表現。這些都是您應該觀察和監控的數字，然後您就會明白我的意思，並且可能會感受到與我一樣的安慰，看看我們的貸款帳簿的品質。再次強調，這對我們來說是不容商量的。所以，感謝 Gustavo 提出這個問題。

Good to see you.

很高興見到你。

(interpreted) Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

（口譯）Pedro Leduc，Itau BBA。

(interpreted) Thank you. Good morning. Congrats on the results. My question is about LLP. LLP In the quarter increased at the same level of the quarter, about 2% quarter-on-quarter with a very stable cost of credit. The question is that the pace of compared to NPL formation was much smaller, but it's not easy to get this conclusion. So I'd like to hop on this because some things changed in the NPL formation is not in the release, 15 to 90 NPL is no longer in the release.

（翻譯）謝謝。早安.恭喜取得成果。我的問題是關於 LLP 的。LLP 本季與上一季持平，季增約 2%，信貸成本非常穩定。問題是，與不良貸款形成的速度相比，這一速度要小得多，但要得出這個結論並不容易。所以我想跳到這個，因為 NPL 形成中的一些變化不在發布中，15 到 90 NPL 不再在發布中。

So I'd like you to elaborate and help us consolidate this because these slight changes or perhaps this doesn't make any sense to look at NPL formation the way we used to, because 15 to 90 day change, then perhaps that's why you're not communicating this.

因此，我希望您能夠詳細說明並幫助我們鞏固這一點，因為這些細微的變化，或者也許這對於我們以前看待不良貸款形成的方式沒有任何意義，因為 15 到 90 天的變化，那麼也許這就是您沒有傳達這一點的原因。

But I just want to understand the pace of loan loss provision versus NPL formation, Stage 3, what is more relevant, what should we be looking and looking forward?

但我只是想了解貸款損失準備與不良貸款形成的速度，即第三階段，哪個更相關，我們應該期待什麼？

(interpreted) Pedro, for the question. And I'll ask my colleagues to answer that. But I'd like to stress one thing that you mentioned, which is important. Indeed, we were not going to mention NPL creation in the 15- to 90-day NPL. But we did include it in the presentation.

(翻譯)佩德羅，回答這個問題。我會請我的同事來回答這個問題。但我想強調你提到的一點，這一點很重要。事實上，我們不會提及 15 至 90 天不良貸款中的不良貸款產生情形。但我們確實將其包含在演示文稿中。

NPL formation or NPL creation went from 109 to 98. And our 15 to 90 day (inaudible) which was 3.4% last quarter, continued flat 3.4% and a year ago, I think it was a little over 4%, 4.1%, down to 3.4%. So indeed, this doesn't have a lot of sense, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

不良貸款形成或不良貸款產生數量從 109 筆減少至 98 筆。而我們 15 至 90 天（聽不清楚）的利率上個季度為 3.4%，繼續保持 3.4% 的水平，而一年前，我認為它略高於 4%，為 4.1%，下降到 3.4%。所以事實上，這沒有太大意義，沒有太大意義。

So I'll let Cassiano and Andre complement to the answer.

因此我會讓 Cassiano 和 Andre 來補充答案。

(interpreted) It is exactly what you said, Marcelo. With Resolution 4966, we will have to adapt and look at this new concept. So Stage 3 is very important. And like Andre's explanation of Stage 3, he will mention this. But Stage 3 is our main topic to pay attention to.

（翻譯）馬塞洛，正如你所說。根據第 4966 號決議，我們必須適應並審視這個新概念。所以第三階段非常重要。而且就像安德烈對第三階段的解釋一樣，他也會提到這一點。但第三階段才是我們關注的重點。

There's not much comparability with 109, against 98 in the last quarter, that shows the robustness of our loan book. The legacy WO model can no longer be done. So this leads to a new way of looking at our loan book. So we have to look at Stage 3. Stage 3 quality were LLP compared to the portfolio, which has remained stable, around 3%. So that attest to our ability to grant loans. Andre will comment on this.

與上一季的 98 相比，這一數字沒有太大可比性，這表明我們的貸款帳簿非常穩健。傳統的 WO 模型已不再可行。因此，這為我們審視貸款帳簿提供了一種新的方式。所以我們必須看看第 3 階段。與投資組合相比，第 3 階段的品質為 LLP，保持穩定，約為 3%。這證明了我們發放貸款的能力。安德烈將對此發表評論。

(interpreted) I just want to add something. You see Pedro, I think that in the complete publication, there is a table where they reconcile what were stages 1 to 3, what was included, what was excluded. And I think that this reconsolidation is crucial for me. And I think that you should monitor that from now on. So what was done with 4966 regarding write-offs?

（解釋）我只是想補充一點。你看，佩德羅，我認為在完整的出版物中，有一個表格，他們在其中核對了第 1 至第 3 階段的內容、包括的內容和排除的內容。我認為這種重新鞏固對我來說至關重要。我認為你從現在開始就應該監視這一點。那麼 4966 在註銷方面做了什麼？

Because we can have a more lengthened term. we can change over 90. We don't lose portfolio because we are no longer writing it off, which did not happen to us, by the way. Okay, Pedro? We kept exactly the same concept we had with 26 to 80 same write-off period. So you can compare apples to apples. Andre?

因為我們可以擁有更長的任期。我們可以改變90多個。我們不會損失投資組合，因為我們不再註銷它，順便說一句，這並沒有發生在我們身上。好的，佩德羅？我們保留了與 26 至 80 年相同的註銷期相同的概念。因此你可以進行同類比較。安德烈？

(interpreted) Okay. So what changed in the accounting regime in terms of quality of assets is that until Q4, we looked at the operations in areas of more than 90 days, over 90-day NPL. That's what we announced. 98% coverage in Q4 provisions compared to the over 90 provision. With 4966, we changed this to Stage 3.

（翻譯）好的。因此，就資產品質而言，會計制度發生的變化是，直到第四季度，我們才開始關注超過 90 天、不良貸款超過 90 天的領域的運作。這就是我們所宣布的。第四季撥備覆蓋率為 98%，而同期撥備覆蓋率則超過 90%。有了 4966，我們將其更改為第 3 階段。

Stage 3 is a broader look. It has almost doubled the value of our operations, classified as more problematic. So we have over 90 and the problematic ones, over 90 increases. And in Q1, the problematic assets drop. So in the economic financial analysis report, Page 18, we have a table of Stage 3 moves and we see what was included from Stages 1, 2 to 3, the (inaudible) operations and what was originated.

第三階段是更廣泛的觀察。它幾乎使我們的營運價值翻了一番，被歸類為更成問題的營運。因此，我們有超過 90 個，而有問題的則增加了 90 多個。第一季度，問題資產下降。因此，在經濟財務分析報告第 18 頁中，我們有一個第 3 階段舉措的表格，我們可以看到第 1、2 至 3 階段包含的內容、（聽不清楚）操作以及起源。

Because the (inaudible) provision in the numerator, we get to 109% coverage. So in a broader concept of (inaudible) assets, we had a 109% provision in Q1 '25, which to us seems more than adequate. And if we get expected LLP, BRL8 billion give or take, we'll get to this 109% coverage, and that's how we have to look at this. It's good to read the explanatory notes because since the last year, we made these movements very, very clear. So it's expected loss and divided by Stage 3. That's what we should look at.

由於分子中的（聽不清楚）規定，我們達到了 109% 的覆蓋率。因此，從更廣泛的（聽不清楚）資產概念來看，我們在 25 年第一季的撥備率為 109%，對我們來說這似乎已經足夠了。如果我們獲得預期的 LLP，即大約 80 億巴西雷亞爾，我們將達到 109% 的覆蓋率，這就是我們必須看待這個問題的方式。閱讀這些解釋性說明很有好處，因為自去年以來，我們已經將這些動作闡述得非常非常清楚。因此這是預期損失並除以第 3 階段。這才是我們該關注的。

And during the presentation in the explanatory notes, we have all of the criteria used with Resolution 4966 in detail. So thank you for the question, Pedro.

在說明性說明的介紹過程中，我們詳細說明了第 4966 號決議所使用的所有標準。謝謝你的提問，佩德羅。

(interpreted) Jorge Kuri, Morgan Stanley.

（翻譯）摩根士丹利的 Jorge Kuri。

Thank you. So I wanted to explore part of the answer that Noronha gave at the beginning of the presentation, why you don't think you can get closer to the top end of the guidance, which was basically on market NII, Noronha, I believe you said that with rates now peaking, you think that the next few quarters are going to be more challenging.

謝謝。因此，我想探討諾羅尼亞在演講開始時給出的部分答案，為什麼您認為您無法接近指導的最高點，這基本上是關於市場 NII，諾羅尼亞，我相信您說過，隨著利率現在達到峰值，您認為接下來的幾個季度將會更具挑戰性。

So could you please maybe elaborate on what that means exactly in terms of numbers? You're expecting a negative result of market NII for the next couple of quarters because if it's just a bit smaller than the first quarter, which was BRL462 million, it is really hard to see how your net income is not going to continue to grow from the first quarter number because of operating leverage, et cetera, and you have much better seasonality as we move forward.

那麼，您能否詳細說明一下從數字上看這到底意味著什麼？您預計未來幾季市場 NII 將出現負值，因為如果它比第一季（4.62 億巴西雷亞爾）略小一點，那麼很難想像您的淨收入不會因為經營槓桿等原因而從第一季度的數字繼續增長，而且隨著我們向前發展，您的季節性會好得多。

And then that gets you to BRL24 billion, BRL25 billion in net income, which is not far from that BRL26 billion, which I believe is over -- part of the guidance. So maybe drill down a little bit of that, if you will. Thank you.

這樣你的淨收入就達到了 240 億雷亞爾、250 億雷亞爾，這與 260 億雷亞爾相差不遠，我相信這已經超過了預期目標的一部分。因此，如果您願意的話，也許可以對此進行深入研究。謝謝。

(interpreted) Okay, so let's speak about market NII, which is super important. Marcelo kind of touched on this on the work that we do in our treasury. It is very focused, strong work. We work seeking the best opportunities, and it was not different in this Q1.

（翻譯）好的，我們來談談市場 NII，這非常重要。馬塞洛 (Marcelo) 談到了我們在財務部門所做的工作。這是一項非常專注、高強度的工作。我們致力於尋找最佳機會，第一季的情況也不例外。

It was very important to consolidate our ALM, a market that was very volatile in the last six months. But we could work strongly on this concept of protecting our ALM or our pre-fixed portfolio. And it -- we see Q2 being tighter and talk about market NII between BRL0 billion and BRL1 billion, which we confirm, and we think it's very feasible throughout the year. And this will lead us to have a certain robustness in managing the ALM. Treasury, as Marcelo mentioned, trading, there are a number of opportunities.

鞏固我們的 ALM 非常重要，因為過去六個月 ALM 市場非常不穩定。但我們可以大力致力於保護我們的 ALM 或預先固定的投資組合這一概念。而且，我們認為第二季度的情況會更加緊張，市場 NII 將在 00 億巴西雷亞爾至 10 億巴西雷亞爾之間，我們對此進行了確認，並且我們認為全年都非常可行。這將使我們在管理 ALM 時具有一定的穩健性。正如馬塞洛所提到的，財政部在交易方面有很多機會。

So we understand that the soft guidance is valid, it is sufficiently well protected by this protection work that we did, work to create value in our pre-fixed portfolios. And this is worked on by our treasury. So I think that in that regard, we are doing very well. And looking at our guidance, we normally are at the middle of the guidance. And that is how you evaluate us.

因此，我們明白軟指導是有效的，我們所做的保育工作足以保護它，並努力在我們預先固定的投資組合中創造價值。這是由我們的財政部負責的。所以我認為在這方面我們做得很好。從我們的指導來看，我們通常處於指導的中間位置。這就是您對我們的評價。

Marcelo is talking about the upper range. So when we look at both ends of the guidance, it includes the potential of looking above the middle of the guidance. I think that this is fundamental to keep us attractive. We consider this as a very positive trend for the next nine months.

馬塞洛談論的是較高範圍。因此，當我們查看指導的兩端時，它包括查看指導中間部分以上的可能性。我認為這是保持我們吸引力的根本。我們認為這是未來九個月非常正面的趨勢。

And Marcelo mentioned, if there is a need for adjustments, we'll make adjustments to the guidance, and we'll communicate that. Would you like to add, Andre?

馬塞洛提到，如果需要調整，我們將對指導進行調整，並進行溝通。安德烈，你想補充嗎？

(interpreted) And also the income tax rate to do the implicit calculation in our guidance. We were talking about a rate between 19% and 23% for this year. But in the end of March, the National Monetary Council increased TJLP, potentializing the payment of interest on capital. We understand that for our stakeholders, we have to enjoy this benefit to the most, increasing the benefit. We reduced the rate.

（解釋）並且在我們的指導中對所得稅率進行隱性計算。我們討論的是今年的利率在 19% 到 23% 之間。但3月底，國家貨幣委員會提高了TJLP，有可能支付資本利息。我們明白，對於我們的利害關係人來說，我們必須最大限度地享受這種利益，從而增加利益。我們降低了利率。

The most probable range would be between 18% and 21%. So at the mid portion, it would fall from 21% to 19.5%. And with that, we kind of adjust of the implicit income in the guidance that you can calculate.

最可能的範圍是18%至21%之間。因此中間部分將從 21% 下降到 19.5%。透過這種方式，我們可以調整指導中的隱性收入以便您計算。

(interpreted) But I would like to stress what Cassiano said. Jorge, we are more optimistic. Okay? Looking at client NII, the expectation was to grow 14% in the full year, right? Yes, to be in the middle of the guidance.

（翻譯）但我想強調卡西亞諾所說的話。豪爾赫，我們更加樂觀。好的？看看客戶 NII，預計全年成長 14%，對嗎？是的，處於指導的中間。

(interpreted) Eduardo Rosman.

（譯）愛德華多‧羅斯曼。

(interpreted) Hello, good morning, everyone. Congratulations on the earnings. My question is about the profitability or the income growth. You said the recovery will happen, but it's gradual. So sometimes when you look at just one quarter, it's difficult to have a general view because maybe in this quarter, you're building the foundation. And on the following quarter, you may have a higher net income but we saw a leap between the Q4 2024 and Q1 2025. Today, I feel you are more optimistic.

（翻譯）大家好，早安。恭喜您盈利。我的問題是關於獲利能力或收入成長。您說過復甦將會發生，但這是一個漸進的過程。因此，有時當你只看一個季度時，很難有一個總體的看法，因為也許在這個季度你正在建立基礎。在接下來的一個季度，你的淨收入可能會更高，但我們看到 2024 年第四季和 2025 年第一季之間出現了飛躍。今天，我感覺你更樂觀了。

So was there any surprise internally? I mean, did you have a better reaction to change? Did the loan book grow more profitable or maybe you were talking about lower income customers that are more active again? Or was it funding? I mean, can you help us understand the sleep between Q4 and Q1?

那麼內部有什麼驚喜嗎？我的意思是，你對變化有更好的反應嗎？貸款帳簿的利潤是否增加了，還是您說的是再次變得更加活躍的低收入客戶？還是資金？我的意思是，您能幫助我們理解 Q4 和 Q1 之間的睡眠嗎？

(interpreted) Thank you, Rosman, for the question. No, these are not customers that have become more active. No, this is our penetration in the customer base. Without that, we wouldn't have so much traction. Even though we could have new investment groups, new processes, I mean if you don't have the right level of origination, if you don't have a good penetration level in the customer base, then it's more difficult to sell.

（翻譯）羅斯曼，謝謝你的提問。不，這些並不是變得更活躍的客戶。不，這是我們在客戶群中的滲透率。如果沒有這一點，我們就不會擁有這麼大的吸引力。即使我們可以擁有新的投資集團、新的流程，但我的意思是，如果你沒有正確的發起水平，如果你在客戶群中沒有良好的滲透水平，那麼銷售就會更加困難。

For us, we see growth in sales. And that is the plan we have growing with quality, growing with quality in credit lines, quality of our credit models, quality of our credit policies, whether you're talking about automated loan approvals or otherwise. I mean, we have our criteria to make loan decisions.

對我們來說，我們看到了銷售額的成長。這就是我們的發展計劃，無論你談論的是自動貸款審批還是其他，我們的信貸額度、信貸模式和信貸政策的品質都在不斷提高。我的意思是，我們有自己的標準來做貸款決策。

So when we prepared our budget for 2025, that was back in October or November 2024. So by then, we looked at 2025, we prepared the guidance, we had a discussion about volatility on the Brazilian market. We also had a discussion about changes in the US market, a higher interest rate. So then the market NII could have been a bit lower.

因此，當我們制定 2025 年預算時，那是在 2024 年 10 月或 11 月。所以到那時，我們展望了 2025 年，準備了指導，並討論了巴西市場的波動性。我們也討論了美國市場的變化和更高的利率。因此市場 NII 可能會稍微低一些。

But so then in October, November last year, we made a decision not to stop our transformation initiative because we believe in the short term and also in the long term. And yes, we had a few good surprises. First, productivity gain with our technology squads. Rosman, we expected that already but it was better than expected.

但在去年十月、十一月，我們決定不停止我們的轉型計劃，因為我們不僅相信短期效益，也相信長期效益。是的，我們確實有一些驚喜。首先，我們的技術團隊的生產力提高了。羅斯曼，我們早就預料到了這一點，但結果比我們想像的還要好。

So these deliveries are extremely relevant because sometimes it is not a new application. But we continue to have developments in the company. We're reviewing our KPIs so that we can monitor each business very closely.

因此這些交付極為相關，因為有時它並不是一個新的應用程式。但我們公司仍在持續發展。我們正在審查我們的 KPI，以便能夠密切監控每項業務。

We have reviewed our legacy systems, which would provide an experience to customers, which was not the best. But as we modernize that, that brings benefits for the future. But again, we realize that we have a lot of traction. We have a high penetration in different customer bases. And we still see a potential for growth in secured loans, that is loans that are fully collateralized.

我們已經審查了我們的遺留系統，它給客戶的體驗並不是最好的。但隨著我們實現現代化，這將為未來帶來好處。但我們再次意識到，我們擁有很大的吸引力。我們在不同的客戶群中擁有很高的滲透率。我們仍然看到擔保貸款（即全額抵押的貸款）的成長潛力。

I said that already, and I'll repeat now. Please have a look at the collaterals provided by FGI and FGO. This is public information. And so you will see, last year, in both of these points. I mentioned that we ranked second with a share of approximately 18%, 18.3% or 18.4% of an overall origination of BRL89 billion so I suggest you will check these two lines of FGI and FGO because you will see that we have a lot of traction.

我已經說過了，現在我再重複一次。請查看 FGI 和 FGO 提供的附屬品。這是公開資訊。因此，您將在去年看到這兩點。我提到，我們排名第二，佔總發放金額 890 億巴西雷亞爾的約 18%、18.3% 或 18.4%，因此我建議您查看 FGI 和 FGO 這兩條線路，因為您會發現我們具有很大的吸引力。

In our Bradesco Expresso, and I didn't mention it today, but Bradesco Expresso has almost 300 islands that's different from the traditional points of sale organization. Now we have these islands but the level of productivity is much higher. In these two platforms we've delivered, the growth is more than 100% compared to the traditional channel.

在我們的 Bradesco Expresso，我今天沒有提到，但 Bradesco Expresso 有近 300 個島嶼，這與傳統的銷售點組織不同。現在我們有了這些島嶼，但生產力水平要高得多。在我們交付的這兩個平台中，與傳統通路相比，成長率超過 100%。

And you can see that in our press release. So what is good is that we continue to have a lot of traction in the loan book. We had a more defensive position in terms of growth, but we could see we have a big potential to continue to grow, and we will go for it with the right ratings, with the right collaterals, for both individuals and small companies.

您可以在我們的新聞稿中看到這一點。因此，好消息是我們在貸款方面繼續保持強勁勢頭。我們在成長方面採取了更防禦的立場，但我們可以看到，我們擁有繼續成長的巨大潛力，我們將透過為個人和小型公司提供正確的評級和正確的抵押品來實現這一目標。

Another very good line of business, but you see this is not casual. This is because we made the right investments in the loan book, in commercial initiatives. We've expanded our investment bank team. And then what happened?

另一個非常好的行業，但你看這不是隨便的。這是因為我們在貸款帳簿和商業舉措方面進行了正確的投資。我們擴大了投資銀行團隊。然後發生了什麼事？

Well, the pipeline grew and also fee income grew more than 70% year-over-year, right in the first quarter. So yes, we had a few good surprises. But based on the hard work we've been doing, right Andre, Cassiano? I'm not sure you would like to add.

嗯，第一季度，通路成長了，費用收入也年增了 70% 以上。是的，我們確實有一些驚喜。但基於我們一直以來的努力，對吧，安德烈、卡西亞諾？我不確定您是否想添加。

(interpreted) Yes, well, I agree with you. But it's always about people. It's always about our team. Look at the level of engagement. It's really important to look at the new model of our culture that can engage our leaders, that can engage our associates and the determination of our sales force. Now in this transformation, I mean, we've had four great balance sheets. And so we have to continue on this path because we truly believe in the value of our franchise, the value of our brand.

（解釋）是的，我同意你的看法。但它總是與人有關。這始終與我們的團隊有關。看看參與程度。檢視我們企業文化的新模式非常重要，這種模式可以調動我們的領導者、我們的員工以及我們的銷售人員的決心。現在，在這種轉型中，我的意思是，我們已經有了四張出色的資產負債表。因此，我們必須繼續走這條路，因為我們真正相信我們的特許經營權的價值、我們的品牌的價值。

(interpreted) Yes, that's important. I agree with what Cassiano said. The level of engagement I have recently last week, I went to Miami, and we have a transformation initiative in the BAC very much connected to our private bank and the principal segment because that's all part of our value proposition for high-worth individuals offshore. And we now have earning 50 million associates in the US, we had a town hall where we could see a high level of engagement. Everyone working on this transformation initiative.

（翻譯）是的，這很重要。我同意卡西亞諾的說法。我最近一周去了邁阿密，參與程度很高，我們在 BAC 有一個轉型計劃，與我們的私人銀行和主要部門密切相關，因為這都是我們針對海外高價值個人的價值主張的一部分。現在我們在美國擁有 5000 萬名員工，我們有一個市政廳，在那裡我們可以看到高度的參與。每個人都致力於這項轉型計劃。

I also went to Fortaleza, I spoke to customers. I went to Belem, I went to (inaudible) agricultural trade show, and I could see a very high level of engagement. I have to thank you because I can see our leaders are highly engaged.

我還去了福塔萊薩，與顧客進行了交談。我去了貝倫，去了（聽不清楚）農業貿易展，我看到了非常高的參與。我必須感謝你們，因為我看到我們的領導人高度參與。

And our teams throughout Brazil, right, Andre, in all segments in technology and support, a very high level of engagement, Rosman, that's why we make it happen. I feel this is a bright moment for the organization. Everyone knows what to do. We know where we want to go and there is a strong belief and a high engagement. That's why we are delivering more earnings.

而且我們遍布巴西的團隊，對吧，安德烈，在技術和支援的所有領域，都有非常高的參與度，羅斯曼，這就是我們實現這一目標的原因。我覺得這對該組織來說是一個光輝的時刻。每個人都知道該做什麼。我們知道我們想要去哪裡，並且有堅定的信念和高度的參與。這就是我們實現更多收益的原因。

Thank you for the question. Thank you, Roseman.

謝謝你的提問。謝謝你，羅斯曼。

(interpreted) Henrique Navarro, Santander.

（翻譯） 桑坦德銀行的恩里克·納瓦羅。

Hello, good morning, everyone. Noronha, congratulations on the earnings. My question is about capital. In the last few months, we've received a number of questions about Bradesco Capital. I'm sure you've also received questions about this. Actually, two questions. The quality of common equity, the quality of the capital.

哈嘍，大家早安。諾羅尼亞，恭喜你獲得收入。我的問題是關於資本的。在過去的幾個月裡，我們收到了許多有關 Bradesco Capital 的問題。我相信您也收到有關此問題的問題。實際上，有兩個問題。普通股股權質量，資本品質。

And the other question from investors is that in a new moment of growth, maybe Bradesco will be more fragile in terms of capital compared to other competitors. From everything we heard, we could see that in the first quarter, Bradesco is at a higher level of income with quality, and that should continue in the second and third quarters, maybe not with an expansion but with stability.

投資者的另一個問題是，在新的成長時刻，與其他競爭對手相比，Bradesco 的資本方面可能會更加脆弱。從我們所聽到的一切來看，我們可以看到，在第一季度，Bradesco 的收入水平更高，品質更高，這種趨勢應該會在第二季度和第三季度繼續保持，也許不會擴張，但會保持穩定。

But then in the second half of the year, we may have tailwinds. And then so maybe Bradesco will have another leap in terms of quality and income. But now do you have the right capital structure to face a growing demand that may happen in 2026 in Brazil?

但到了下半年，我們可能會遇到順風。那麼，布拉德斯科銀行也許會在品質和收入方面再一次飛躍。但現在您是否擁有正確的資本結構來應對巴西可能在 2026 年出現的不斷增長的需求？

So I'd like to hear from you because this has been a frequent question from investors. But now of course, looking at the great results that you are presenting, this concern is not so present. But I'd like to hear a bit more from you.

所以我想聽聽您的意見，因為這是投資者經常問的問題。但是現在，當然，看看您展示的出色成果，這種擔憂就不那麼存在了。但我希望聽到您更多的消息。

(interpreted) Thank you for the question. I think Cassiano can answer your question. But let me tell you, I would love to have a problem of having to face such a relevant growth because the fact is that we feel very comfortable looking at the plans we have in terms of capital structure, I mean -- but we're growing our revenue so quickly, that maybe we have questions about the capital structure, which we don't really.

（翻譯）感謝您的提問。我認為卡西亞諾可以回答你的問題。但讓我告訴你，我很樂意麵對如此相關的成長問題，因為事實是，我們對資本結構方面的計劃感到非常滿意，我的意思是 - 但我們的收入成長如此之快，也許我們對資本結構有疑問，但實際上我們並沒有。

(interpreted) Well, we started a project last year with a firm belief, and we cannot forget the project when we were in 2024 and looking at 2025, we would have a better cost of capital. And this is very relevant, and it makes us feel optimistic to continue following our planned step by step. So the plan has four years, four important years. And the level of capital is at the level we planned and that's important. If you look at the level of Bradesco Capital historically, this is the level.

(解釋) 嗯，我們去年懷著堅定的信念啟動了一個項目，我們不能忘記 2024 年的項目，展望 2025 年，我們將擁有更好的資本成本。這非常有意義，它讓我們感到樂觀，可以繼續一步步按照計劃進行。所以這個計劃有四年，四個重要的年。資本水準達到了我們計劃的水平，這很重要。如果你從歷史角度看 Bradesco Capital 的水平，你會發現這就是目前的水平。

Working with the dividends, paying out the dividends to our investors, as we've historically done. So there's no deviation from our plan. So in 2025 and '26 Navarro, we want to continue to be very close to this new market and be even stronger and attractive for customers. Our customers have not left us. We continue to work with the bankers share.

就像我們過去所做的那樣，利用股息向我們的投資者支付股息。所以與我們的計劃沒有偏差。因此，在 2025 年和 2026 年，納瓦羅希望繼續貼近這個新市場，變得更強大，對客戶更具吸引力。我們的客戶並沒有離開我們。我們繼續與銀行家合作。

But so we feel very comfortable when we think about 2026. And we all hope you're right so that Brazil will truly grow macroeconomically in 2026. And we feel we have a comfortable level of capital. As Marcelo said, this could be a good problem, right? But our capital will continue to grow.

但當我們想到 2026 年時，我們感到非常安心。我們都希望您是對的，這樣巴西的宏觀經濟才能在 2026 年真正成長。我們覺得我們的資本水準比較充足。正如馬塞洛所說，這可能是個好問題，對吧？但我們的資本將持續成長。

Yes, he also spoke about tax credits. Yes. Of course, if we have a higher income, that helps in everything because our main capital comes from the net income or maybe a specific capital call, but we don't see that in the horizon. Now in terms of tax credit, the higher the NII, then the more we can use our tax credit, and we'll continue to do that. That's also included in our four-year plan.

是的，他還談到了稅收抵免。是的。當然，如果我們有更高的收入，對一切都有幫助，因為我們的主要資本來自淨收入或特定的資本調用，但我們還沒有看到這一點。現在就稅收抵免而言，NII 越高，我們就可以更多地使用稅收抵免，我們將繼續這樣做。這也包括在我們的四年計劃中。

(interpreted) Thank you, Navarro. Let me also add -- so we are talking about growing capital in the first quarter when many questioned whether we could do that. And the main source of this growth was the net income. So when in 2026, we may have a higher number, but also continuing to follow our plan, step by step and generating more net income. So that's going to help us. We will continue to pay out our dividends and the level of capital shall remain stable until year-end. We are not really concerned about that. Thank you Navarro.

（翻譯）謝謝你，納瓦羅。我還要補充一點——我們正在談論第一季的資本成長，而許多人質疑我們是否能夠做到這一點。而這成長的主要來源就是淨收入。所以到了2026年的時候，我們的數字可能會更高，但也會繼續按照我們的計劃，一步一步創造更多的淨收入。這對我們有幫助。我們將繼續派發股息，資本水準將保持穩定直至年底。我們其實不擔心這一點。謝謝你，納瓦羅。

(interpreted) Nishio, Genial.

（譯）西尾，Genial。

(interpreted) Good morning, everyone. Congratulations on the results. My question is more linked to retail. According to you, this is still the detractor of profitability. So how are you executing the strategy, unifying the brands systems, the timing for launch app basically for verticals to work with. Classic (inaudible) so if you could talk about your expectations regarding profitability, growth and with this focus on digital transformation in mass detail. If you could comment on the size of your network?

（翻譯）大家早安。恭喜你取得這樣的成績。我的問題更與零售有關。按照您的說法，這仍然是盈利能力的阻礙因素。那麼，您如何執行該策略，統一品牌系統，以及基本上為垂直行業制定推出應用程式的時間。經典（聽不清楚）所以如果您可以詳細談談您對盈利能力、成長以及對數位轉型的關注的期望。您能否評論一下您的網路規模？

At the beginning of the year, you said that you intended to reduce points of service by 1,000. You did 222 in Q1 alone. So perhaps you could speak a little about that linked to costs and the size of your workforce because in terms of headcount, head count has not changed a lot. So if you could speak about these two perspectives: Network cost and mass retail.

年初您說要減少1000個服務點。光是第一季你就完成了 222 項。因此，也許您可以談談與成本和員工規模相關的問題，因為就員工人數而言，員工人數並沒有太大變化。所以如果你可以談談這兩個觀點：網路成本和大眾零售。

(interpreted) I'll ask Cassiano to start answering, but before that, Nishio, thank you for the question. Thank you for joining us in this call. And you spoke about different brands, and you're talking about (inaudible)

（翻譯）我將請卡西亞諾開始回答，但在此之前，西尾，謝謝你的提問。感謝您參加本次電話會議。你談到了不同的品牌，你談到的是（聽不清楚）

So bits, well, bits is something that was absorbed. It does not exist as a business unit any longer. So it was absorbed, but Djo, Djo is a separate unit. It continues to operate, but we'll speak later about the movement for next over time and Cassiano, you can comment on retail, mass retail.

所以，比特，嗯，比特是被吸收的東西。它不再作為一個業務單位而存在。所以它被吸收了，但是 Djo，Djo 是一個獨立的單位。它將繼續運營，但我們稍後會談論下一步的行動，以及卡西亞諾，你可以對零售、大眾零售發表評論。

(interpreted) Thank you, Nishio. Good to see you here. I think an important part -- throughout the year, we'll be bringing a new value proposition for the mass retail. This value proposition will touch these three brands that you mentioned. So this will be important in the future. Marcelo and I will be communicating this value proposition to the market, and we'll be speaking to you about this. It will be an interesting one.

（翻譯）謝謝你，西尾。很高興在這裡見到你。我認為一個重要的部分是──全年我們將為大眾零售帶來新的價值主張。這個價值主張將觸及您所提到的這三個品牌。所以這在未來很重要。馬塞洛和我將向市場傳達這個價值主張，我們將與你們討論這一點。這將會是一件有趣的事。

So I think that, that is the take-home message. This is clear to us, and this is added to our cost to serve, which is one of the main points of action in retail. The cost to serve these 30 million clients. So they are good clients, but we have to adapt them to the best cost to serve. So this will entail some adjustments.

所以我認為這就是我們要記住的道理。我們很清楚這一點，而且這也被添加到了我們的服務成本中，這是零售業的主要行動點之一。為這 3,000 萬客戶提供服務的成本。所以他們是好客戶，但我們必須以最佳的成本為他們提供服務。因此這將需要進行一些調整。

On the other hand, the footprint adjustment is linked to this. Adjusting the footprint is fully linked to the way in which we will serve the mass retail in a more digital way, in a user-friendly way in almost a tailor-made way to serve. So this is our vocation. We have a reduction of the footprint, but this is going to be done carefully and cautiously testing possible attrition because we'll spread all over this continental country that Brazil is. So we cannot lose our presence there.

另一方面，足跡調整與此相關。調整足跡與我們以更數位化的方式、以用戶友好的方式、以幾乎量身定制的方式為大眾零售提供服務的方式完全相關。這就是我們的使命。我們的足跡有所減少，但我們會謹慎行事，小心翼翼地測試可能造成的損失，因為我們將遍布巴西這個大陸國家。所以我們不能失去在那裡的存在。

So this is important. We are growing clients, even closing 1,400 branches because we have Bradesco Expresso that is very strong in the front line, 30,000 offices or Bradesco Express -- almost 39,000 banking correspondents. So we have to make all of these connections, Bradesco Espresso, reduction of the footprint, bringing clients to a new value proposition in digital retail.

所以這很重要。我們的客戶不斷成長，甚至關閉了 1,400 家分行，因為我們擁有在前線非常強大的 Bradesco Expresso、30,000 個辦事處或 Bradesco Express——近 39,000 名銀行代理。因此，我們必須建立所有這些聯繫，Bradesco Espresso，減少足跡，為客戶帶來數位零售的新價值主張。

With this, we will rebuild the profitability because this is the tractor segment in the set of our ROAE. So that's why it is important to move in that direction. And regarding costs, it is important to look at the efficiency ratio. Our efficiency ratio was 49.7% in Q1.

透過這種方式，我們將重建獲利能力，因為這是我們 ROAE 集合中的拖拉機部分。所以朝這個方向努力很重要。至於成本，考慮效率比率也很重要。我們第一季的效率比率為 49.7%。

First year, we shouldn't expect a significant change from that level because there is a lot of investments to be made in the transformation plan. But we should see a more significant reduction in the efficiency ratio starting in 2026 moving towards 40%, which is our ambition by 2028. So the impact will happen starting in 2026. Thank you, Nishio.

第一年，我們不應該期望從這個水平發生重大變化，因為轉型計劃需要進行大量投資。但從 2026 年開始，我們應該會看到效率比率出現更顯著的下降，朝著 40% 的目標邁進，這是我們到 2028 年的目標。因此影響將從 2026 年開始顯現。謝謝你，西尾。

(interpreted) Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

（翻譯）摩根大通的尤里費南德茲。

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre. Congratulations on the earnings because they were really strong. I would like to explore a point that you kind of touched on Noronha. I'm talking about NIM and (inaudible) spread that increased 20 bps. And that was a very good result.

（翻譯）謝謝你，安德烈。祝賀你們的獲利，因為獲利確實很強勁。我想探討一下您提到的有關諾羅尼亞島的一點。我說的是 NIM 和（聽不清楚）利差增加了 20 個基點。這是一個非常好的結果。

And I think that the message is that it should continue to expand. I'd like to understand the order of magnitude that you're seeing because in this quarter, you had some help from funding. It helps, but I don't know whether this should be helping in the coming quarters. And my question is about the mix. Noronha, you said it over and that the bank is growing, that there is risk appetite.

我認為這個訊息應該繼續擴大。我想了解您所看到的數量級，因為在本季度，您得到了一些資金的幫助。這確實有幫助，但我不知道這是否會在未來幾季有所幫助。我的問題是關於混合的。諾羅尼亞，您剛才說了，銀行正在發展，有風險偏好。

But following safer lines, FGO, FGI, (inaudible) So I love to understand should this margin remain at the same level we saw in this quarter? Will it expand a little less or perhaps a little more? I just want to think about the spread, NII, NIM.

但遵循更安全的路線，FGO，FGI，（聽不清楚）所以我很想知道這個利潤率是否應該保持在本季度看到的水平？它的擴張程度會稍微減少一點還是會增加一點？我只是想考慮一下利差、NII、NIM。

(interpreted) You can start Andre.

（翻譯）你可以讓安德烈首發。

(interpreted) Yuri, I think that there are two points to highlight here. First, the funding NII. In terms of positive contribution from funding NII in Q1 will increase over time along 2025. This is a cumulative process of efficiency gains in managing clients' resources. And this is underway in the bank at an accelerated pace.

（翻譯）尤里，我認為這裡有兩點需要強調。第一，為國家資訊基礎架構提供資金。就資金貢獻而言，第一季國家資訊基礎結構 (NII) 將隨 2025 年的推移而增加。這是管理客戶資源效率提升的累積過程。而這一進程在銀行中正在加速進行。

So this should contribute even more in the coming quarters. The benefit is not done. There will be additional benefits to be captured. And we are seeing this happen in Q2. The expectation is that it will continue throughout the year.

因此，這將在未來幾季做出更大的貢獻。福利還沒做完。還將獲得額外的好處。我們在第二季度看到了這種情況。預計這種情況將持續全年。

Second point, bringing the focus to the macro economy. When we have a monetary tightening, normally, there's increase in the spreads. It's not that the banks aim to increase the spreads. But we look at the RAR of the operations. The bank wants to have NII net of provisions.

第二點，關注宏觀經濟。當我們實行貨幣緊縮政策時，利差通常會擴大。銀行的目的並不是增加利差。但我們會看一下操作的 RAR。該銀行希望獲得扣除撥備後的 NII 淨額。

And the spreads tend to widen when we have moments of monetary tightening. And this is what's happening in the Brazilian economy. This will be another driver that will help us increase 8.6 towards the end of the year. I don't want to give you a specific target, but what I can tell you is that there is an upward trend.

當我們收緊貨幣政策時，利差往往會擴大。這就是巴西經濟正在發生的事情。這將成為幫助我們在年底前增加 8.6 的另一個驅動力。我不想給你一個具體的目標，但我可以告訴你的是，目前呈現上升趨勢。

(interpreted) Andre, let me add to what you said. Thank you for the question, Yuri. We had a cost of funding that was the lowest that we saw in recent years, and this is a fact, and Andre mentioned this. The biggest driver came from the growth of assets and from the growth of our relationship with micro, small, medium-sized enterprises because here, we have better margins and a better NII. We reduced the loan book of the wholesale bank.

（翻譯）安德烈，讓我補充一下你所說的話。謝謝你的提問，尤里。我們的融資成本是近年來最低的，這是事實，安德烈也提到了這一點。最大的驅動力來自於資產的成長以及我們與微型、小型、中型企業關係的成長，因為在這裡，我們擁有更好的利潤率和更好的NII。我們減少了批發銀行的貸款規模。

So if you look at the complete publication, there is the TVM line item. Year-over-year, over first quarter '25, there was BRL7 billion drop in TVM in securities, actually. TVMs are the securities. So I'm convinced of what we are doing with individuals and micro and SMEs, that's where the biggest opportunities lie. One of the (inaudible) asked about growth drivers.

因此，如果您查看完整的出版物，您會發現 TVM 專案。與去年同期相比，2025 年第一季度，證券 TVM 實際上下降了 70 億巴西雷亞爾。TVM 是證券。因此，我堅信，我們針對個人、微型和中小型企業所採取的措施，蘊藏著最大的機會。其中一位（聽不清楚）詢問了成長動力。

And what I see, Yuri, is that we'll continue to grow, mainly our NII. The NII is growing steadily. If you look at the bar chart that I showed, it's there. It's piling up. We are offering loans with guarantees collateralized. Longer maturities with a very high RAR and very low losses. So we see NII growing and NII and other provisions also growing. And I guess that this is the main point explaining this growth, not just of NIM, but I would like to stress NII.

尤里，我看到的是，我們將繼續發展，主要是我們的 NII。國家資訊基礎結構正在穩步增長。如果您看一下我展示的條形圖，它就在那裡。它正在堆積起來。我們提供有擔保的貸款。期限較長，風險承擔比率 (RAR) 非常高，損失非常低。因此，我們看到 NII 正在增長，並且 NII 和其他規定也在增長。我想這是解釋這種成長的主要原因，不只是 NIM，我想強調的是 NII。

(interpreted) Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

（翻譯）卡洛斯‧戈麥斯‧洛佩斯，匯豐銀行。

Nice to meet you. Thank you, Andre. Thank you, Andre, and congratulations to all for the results, and for the and for the market reaction. So two specific questions. One is long term in terms of credit cost in the corporate sector in the (inaudible)

很高興見到你。謝謝你，安德烈。謝謝你，安德烈，恭喜大家取得的成果以及市場反應。所以有兩個具體問題。一是企業部門信貸成本的長期性（聽不清楚）

We have had record low cost of credit, I would say, since COVID. It has never quite increased at some point, the bank was guiding for higher provisions from that. But they have not acquired materialize. Do you think that even with these higher interest rates, we should continue to have this benign scenario of credit costs again in the corporate segment in the coming years.

我想說，自從新冠疫情以來，我們的信貸成本一直處於歷史低點。它從來沒有在某個時候真正增加過，銀行正在指導從中獲取更高的撥備。但它們尚未實現。您是否認為，即使利率上升，未來幾年企業領域的信貸成本仍將維持這種良性態勢？

And my second question refers to insurance again following up on Mario's question. Health insurance has given you BRL900 million this quarter. That's about 3 times as much as it has typically given you. What has changed there? And how sustainable is that for the coming quarters and years? Thank you.

我的第二個問題是關於保險的，再次回答馬裡奧的問題。本季健康保險已為您帶來 9 億巴西雷亞爾。這大約是它通常給予的數量的三倍。那裡有什麼變化？這對於未來幾季和幾年來說有多大的可持續性？謝謝。

(interpreted) Would you like to start?

（翻譯）你想開始嗎？

(interpreted) Alright, Carlos. I will begin to answer your question about health care insurance. What we've noted, as Marcelo mentioned, is a lower claim rate but that lower claim rate is the consequence of many years of investment plans. And after the COVID Pandemonic, we see a more normal curve in terms of the claim rate. These two factors are helping us push down the claim rate in the health insurance product, and we expect that to continue. And that's very relevant.

（翻譯）好的，卡洛斯。我將開始回答您有關醫療保險的問題。正如馬塞洛所提到的，我們注意到索賠率較低，但較低的索賠率是多年投資計畫的結果。在新冠疫情過後，我們看到索賠率呈現更正常的曲線。這兩個因素正在幫助我們降低健康保險產品的索賠率，我們預計這種情況將持續下去。這非常有意義。

Also, as Marcelo mentioned, in health care, we have our strategy in terms of [Atlantica door], and that will bring benefits in the midterm or in the long term. But the new hospitals, we've had incredible benefits, a high level of occupation and they already bring benefits to our earnings. So that's a promising kind of investment. Maybe not now, but more in the mid and long term. So that is a very healthy movement.

另外，正如馬塞洛所提到的，在醫療保健領域，我們有自己的 [Atlantica 門] 策略，這將在中期或長期帶來利益。但是新醫院為我們帶來了令人難以置信的好處，佔用率很高，而且它們已經為我們的收入帶來了好處。所以這是一項很有前景的投資。也許現在還不是，但從中長期來看會更多。所以這是一個非常健康的運動。

Look, Carlos, about the cost of risk, your rate, the margins are tight. We had funds stepping out from variable income and even multi market, they are moving to fixed income securities. And that's what we see. So regardless of the corporate ratings, but especially companies that have a higher credit rating. They are being able to obtain funding at a much lower cost.

聽著，卡洛斯，關於風險成本、你的利率、利潤空間都很小。我們的基金已從浮動收益甚至多元市場中退出，轉向固定收益證券。這就是我們所看到的。所以不管企業評級如何，尤其是信用評級較高的公司。他們能夠以更低的成本獲得資金。

So this is a very favorable moment. So that's why I spoke about our origination strategy. I'm looking at lower cap with a small share, but then I can work on the secondary market over the counter. And there is a big demand. So while we have high interest rates, and a weaker capital market with more volatility and without new money coming into Brazilian funds that these funds in BRL towards variable income securities.

因此這是一個非常有利的時機。這就是我談論我們的起源策略的原因。我正在尋找股份較少的低市值公司，但我可以在場外二級市場上進行交易。而且需求量很大。因此，儘管我們的利率很高，資本市場較弱且波動性較大，而且沒有新資金流入巴西基金，但這些以巴西雷亞爾計價的資金卻流向了浮動收益證券。

We will continue to see the same circumstances. Maybe further on, maybe closer to year-end 2025 when the monetary Committee begins to plan for 2027 and the interest rate would be around 15%, 14.75%. I mean where is the center of the inflation. What is the inflation target. We may see our inflation very close to the inflation target, right?

我們將繼續看到同樣的情況。也許更遠一點，也許更接近 2025 年底，當貨幣委員會開始規劃 2027 年時，利率將在 15%、14.75% 左右。我的意思是通貨膨脹的中心在哪裡。通膨目標是多少。我們可能會看到我們的通膨非常接近通膨目標，對嗎？

So that's what we expect. As you see interest rates coming down, and you see more expectations in the variable income market, in the equity market. That would be later on in 2026 or in the beginning of 2027. That's when we expect to see a change. Maybe you'd like to add?

這正是我們所期望的。正如你所看到的，利率下降，你對浮動收入市場和股票市場的預期也隨之增加。那將是 2026 年晚些時候或 2027 年初。那時我們就期望看到改變。也許您想添加？

(interpreted) Yes, I'd like to add to comments. Bank credit for large corporations and the capital market as a funding source for these large companies because the margins are lower than you can see a higher demand for loans by and large corporations. And at the same time, this helps improve the quality of our loans because large corporations, they have different sources of funding. Today, we see a high level of liquidity for corporations. So that helps us keep delinquency down.

（翻譯）是的，我想補充一些評論。銀行為大公司提供信貸，而資本市場作為這些大公司的資金來源，由於利潤率較低，可以看到大公司對貸款的需求較高。同時，這有助於提高我們的貸款質量，因為大公司有不同的資金來源。今天，我們看到企業的流動性水準很高。這有助於我們降低犯罪率。

As the economy grows slower, that will be a risk to be closely monitored. And the quicker the interest rate begins to fall, then the better would be the outlook, right? And it is important to remember that if you look at the largest Brazilian companies, Brazil has more than 400 companies in the open market listed in the stock exchange. Most of them have the right level of leverage.

隨著經濟成長放緩，這將是一個需要密切監控的風險。利率下降得越快，前景就越好，對嗎？重要的是要記住，如果你看看巴西最大的公司，巴西在公開市場上有超過 400 家公司在證券交易所上市。他們中的大多數都擁有適當的槓桿水平。

Of course, with a high cost of funding that is pressure for the EBITDA margin to pay for the debt or for liability management. However, we all know that looking at this group of large corporations, some are in a more complicated situation, but that's not true for most of the large Brazilian corporations. So looking at that, I expect we will not have any surprises in terms of delinquency because that's more concentrated in the middle market and in specific industries not really in large corporations.

當然，由於融資成本高，EBITDA 利潤率面臨著償還債務或進行負債管理的壓力。然而，我們都知道，縱觀這群大公司，有些公司的情況比較複雜，但大多數巴西大公司的情況並非如此。因此，從這一點來看，我預計我們在拖欠債務方面不會有任何意外，因為拖欠債務更多地集中在中端市場和特定行業，而不是大公司。

(interpreted) Yes, that's what I was going to say.

（譯）是的，這正是我要說的。

(interpreted) Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

（口譯）Bernardo Guttmann，XP。

(interpreted) Hello, good afternoon. Noronha, Andre, Cassiano. Thank you for taking my questions. Congratulations on your deliveries. Now looking at the NII improvement, that comes from higher efficiency in the bank's funding strategy. I'd like to hear more about your funding strategy in retail. Do you expect to continue to improve? What about the marginal cost of funding considering the current level of the interest rate and the concern about liabilities? We see a few new banks that are more aggressive, more active in this. So I would like to hear more from you about that, please.

（翻譯）你好，下午好。諾隆尼亞、安德烈、卡西亞諾。感謝您回答我的問題。恭喜您順利交貨。現在來看NII的改善，這源自於銀行融資策略效率的提升。我想了解更多有關您在零售業的融資策略。您希望繼續進步嗎？考慮到目前的利率水準和對負債的擔憂，融資的邊際成本如何？我們看到一些新銀行在這方面表現得更加積極主動。因此，我希望聽到您對此的更多看法。

(interpreted) Thank you, Bernardo. What I usually say is that here, we are always looking at liquidity management, trying to reach the best level of cash. And so you see we now have 136%. And so that has helped us reduce our cost of funding. And here, two levers are important.

（翻譯）謝謝你，貝納多。我通常會說的是，我們始終專注於流動性管理，並努力達到最佳現金水準。所以你看我們現在有 136%。這有助於我們降低融資成本。這裡有兩個槓桿很重要。

Our customers are closer to us, we have more principality in the relationship, not only in low income but also mid-income and high-income customers. And so that helps us keep the cost of funding down. And the second lever, which is also relevant is how we compensate customers when they bring deposits when they bring demand deposits to us.

我們的客戶與我們更加親近，我們在與客戶的關係中擁有更大的主導權，不僅針對低收入客戶，也針對中等收入和高收入客戶。這有助於我們降低融資成本。第二個槓桿也很重要，那就是當顧客將活期存款轉交給我們時，我們該如何給予補償。

We have improved the way we compensate these customers, and that has been very helpful. Now when Marcelo spoke about the whole year, this is something that we are doing in our cash management in the middle market. That has made us become -- that has made us gain in terms of principality.

我們改進了補償這些客戶的方式，這非常有幫助。現在，當馬塞洛談到全年時，這就是我們在中端市場現金管理中所做的事情。這使我們變得——這使我們在主權方面有所收穫。

So now we no longer need higher cost funding when I have a plan and I can execute the plan, engaging our results and keeping a balance in terms of lower funding cost from small companies and even from lower-income individuals, that certainly helps us reach this optimum cost of funding. Will this last forever? Well, I don't believe anything will last forever. However, we still have our plan, which we are executing step by step.

因此，當我有一個計劃並且能夠執行該計劃時，我們不再需要更高成本的資金，參與我們的成果並在來自小公司甚至低收入個人的較低資金成本方面保持平衡，這無疑有助於我們達到最佳資金成本。這會永遠持續下去嗎？嗯，我不相信任何事物能夠永恆。不過，我們還是有計畫的，我們正在一步步執行。

The more principality we have in our customer base, then the easier it will be for us to keep this balance. And this year, I believe we will be able to maintain this optimum level of cash and funding. Right? We have increased our origination also at BRAM in the asset management. Our BRAM has grown very healthily in this last year in our BRAM, the asset management.

我們的客戶群越強大，我們就越容易維持這種平衡。今年，我相信我們能夠維持這最佳現金和資金水準。正確的？我們也增加了在 BRAM 的資產管理業務。去年，我們的 BRAM（資產管理）發展非常健康。

And that's because of our strategy, right? And so we trend towards the optimum level of cash. And the liability level is possibly the lowest in the last few years because of this strategy. And at the same time, we are harvesting benefits from a few investments. We see there is a demand on the market.

這是因為我們的策略，對嗎？因此，我們趨向於達到最佳現金水準。由於這一策略，負債水平可能是過去幾年中最低的。同時，我們也從一些投資中獲得了收益。我們看到市場上有需求。

So we have maybe our lowest historical cost. So thank you, Bernardo. Thank you for the questions. Thank you.

因此我們的成本可能是歷史最低的。所以謝謝你，貝爾納多。謝謝您的提問。謝謝。

(interpreted) Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

（翻譯）雷納托·梅洛尼，自治。

(interpreted) Hello, good afternoon. Congratulations on the results, and thank you for taking my questions.

（翻譯）你好，下午好。恭喜您取得這樣的成績，感謝您回答我的問題。

I would like to focus on client NII and focus on this message of being conservative. At the same time, you're growing more than the industry. And with a reasonably high yield, I know you spoke a lot about loans with guarantees, the payroll deductible loans, but that's a segment, which is the most competitive and your C2C is also growing.

我想專注於客戶 NII 並重點傳達這一保守的訊息。同時，你的成長速度也比產業更快。而且由於收益率相當高，我知道您談了很多關於擔保貸款、工資扣除貸款的問題，但這是一個競爭最激烈的領域，而且您的 C2C 業務也在增長。

So I'd like to understand, perhaps you found a niche, which is being underserved by the other banks and that's where you're growing the beginning, you said that these are not new clients. You are just using your network.

所以我想了解一下，也許您找到了一個其他銀行服務不足的利基市場，這就是您開始發展的地方，您說這些不是新客戶。您只是在使用您的網路。

And looking forward, can you continue to grow with the current mix? Or would you need to get into more risky lines to continue to expand your NIM?

展望未來，您能否繼續以當前的組合發展？或者您需要進入風險更高的領域來繼續擴大您的淨利潤？

(interpreted) Thank you, Renato. But I can answer that quite objectively. In personal loans, we had to move months. They were interesting, for example, with higher net worth clients, you normally get personal loans, but with lower rates. Because if I offer conventional rates, I will do an adverse selection and these higher income clients and they have the payroll with us.

（翻譯）謝謝你，雷納托。但我可以相當客觀地回答這個問題。在個人貸款方面，我們不得不推遲幾個月。他們很有趣，例如，對於淨資產較高客戶，通常可以獲得個人貸款，但利率較低。因為如果我提供常規利率，我會做出逆向選擇，而這些高收入客戶會向我們支付薪水。

And they ask for a loan that they have a good credit rating. So that's number one. And regarding payroll deductible loans, part of the personal loan line item, and I mentioned that in the presentation, you might remember that. A part of that is alone, which is guaranteed by FGTS. If I include that in payroll deductible loan instead of seeing a BRL5 billion increase year-over-year, perhaps we would see an increase of BRL10 billion to BRL11 billion considering FTGS and the other set of payroll deductible loans, which means that we are quite well tractioned in the INSS deductible loan.

他們要求貸款時必須有良好的信用評級。這是第一點。關於工資扣除貸款，這是個人貸款項目的一部分，我在演示中提到過，您可能還記得。其中一部分是單獨的，由 FGTS 保證。如果我將其計入工資抵扣貸款，也許我們會看到 100 億雷亞爾至 110 億雷亞爾的增長，這意味著我們在 INSS 抵扣貸款方面表現相當不錯。

And we also have a great penetration. We are big payers of INSS. We have a high capability of distribution. So there's distribution, which is done by competitors, not just digitally, but also using external distribution. We access that, but the bulk of our distribution is done through our own channels, our digital channels other channels that we use, the [ATMs] themselves and also in our service units -- point of service.

而且我們的滲透力也很強。我們是 INSS 的大付款人。我們擁有強大的分銷能力。因此，分銷是由競爭對手完成的，不僅透過數位方式，還使用外部分銷。我們可以存取這些內容，但我們的大部分分銷是透過我們自己的管道、我們的數位管道、我們使用的其他管道、[ATM] 本身以及我們的服務單位（服務點）完成的。

So we have a great distribution of payroll deductible loans. So I don't see the bank ending into riskier lines because we have great opportunities. And I mentioned micro and small and midsized enterprises. Look at those last year, the set of origination of alliance, FGO, FGI, was about BRL89 billion, and that continues to have traction. And we have penetration here, but in order to have penetration, you have to have a client base.

因此，我們的薪資扣除貸款分配量很大。因此，我認為銀行不會陷入風險更高的境地，因為我們擁有巨大的機會。我提到了微型和中小型企業。看看去年，FGO、FGI 聯盟的成立總額約為 890 億巴西雷亞爾，而且這個數字還在持續成長。我們在這裡有滲透力，但為了實現滲透力，你必須擁有客戶群。

And you have to have an ability to deliver, and we do have that. This is what we're showing. So I don't see riskier aligns in the horizon. I might offer more personal loans in the prime segment Yes, it's possible as long as the pricing is adequate if we have the right risk-adjusted return and this is our target. This is the way to go.

你必須具備實現這目標的能力，而我們確實具備這項能力。這就是我們所展示的。因此，我認為未來不會有更具風險的情況。我可能會在主要細分市場提供更多的個人貸款。是的，只要定價合適，如果我們有正確的風險調整回報，這是可能的，這就是我們的目標。這是正確的做法。

And I stress what I've said before, this is an important focus for us. It is the quality of our assets. We don't get that up. We prefer to advance more slowly towards the future than moving in the future too quickly and making mistakes.

我強調我之前說過的話，這是我們關注的一個重點。這就是我們的資產品質。我們不明白這一點。我們寧願慢慢地向未來邁進，也不願太快向未來邁進並犯錯。

(interpreted) Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

（口譯）蒂托·拉巴塔（Tito Labarta），高盛。

(interpreted) Yeah, sorry about that. Thank you. Thanks, Andre. Hi Marcelo, Cassiano. Thank you for the call and taking my question, and congratulations on the strong results and the stock reaction. Just one final question, I guess, on my end. Just -- I saw John Deere contributed right, BRL17 billion to your loan book. Did that contribute at all to the earnings, particularly, I guess, on the client NII, do you see any benefit from that?

（翻譯）是的，對此我深感抱歉。謝謝。謝謝，安德烈。你好，馬塞洛，卡西亞諾。感謝您的來電並回答我的問題，並祝賀您取得強勁的業績和股票反應。我想，我只想問最後一個問題。只是——我看到約翰迪爾為您的貸款賬簿貢獻了 170 億巴西雷亞爾。這對收益有任何貢獻嗎？特別是對於客戶 NII 而言，您認為這有什麼好處嗎？

And just to think going forward, if you see any contribution from John Deere in terms of the business, the potential improvements in profitability, just to quantify if that had any impact in the quarter and expectations for the year. Thank you.

展望未來，如果您看到約翰迪爾在業務方面做出任何貢獻，獲利能力可能會有所提高，那麼請量化這是否對本季和全年預期產生了影響。謝謝。

(interpreted) John Deere was much more important strategically with a stronger share in the agri business. The BRL17.3 billion that was added to our portfolio at the very end of Q1 is broken down to individuals, to legal entities. Without that, our portfolio would have grown 11% in Q1 '25 year-on-year. But the contribution to the net income is very close to zero. It's actually immaterial.

(解釋) 約翰迪爾在農業業務中佔有更大的份額，因此在策略上更為重要。我們在第一季末新增的投資組合為 173 億巴西雷亞爾，並已細分為個人和法人實體。如果沒有這個因素，我們的投資組合在 2025 年第一季將年增 11%。但對淨收入的貢獻卻接近零。這其實並不重要。

And that's why we didn't highlight that. If you consider that we have a cash outlay with the cash not being remunerated, that contribution becomes even less important to our net income. So for that criterion we shouldn't be thinking so much about John Deere.

這就是我們沒有強調這一點的原因。如果您考慮到我們有現金支出，但沒有得到報酬，那麼這筆貢獻對我們的淨收入來說就變得不那麼重要了。因此，根據該標準，我們不應該過多考慮約翰迪爾。

I think that John Deere will come much later. And this is a moment when we are discussing the strategy of including John Deere in our operation and how we can work better together to better serve the agri business industry, which is very strategic with a good outlook in an industry that is very resilient to the macroeconomic scenario.

我認為約翰迪爾的到來會晚得多。此時此刻，我們正在討論將約翰迪爾納入我們營運的策略，以及我們如何更好地合作，更好地服務於農業商業行業，這對於一個對宏觀經濟形勢具有很強彈性的行業來說，具有非常高的戰略意義和良好的前景。

So the strategy is much more important right now than any contribution to the net income or client NII or any other line item.

因此，現在的策略比對淨收入、客戶 NII 或任何其他項目的貢獻更為重要。

(interpreted) So we are now closing our Q&A session. I want to thank you all for contributing with your questions. before I give the floor back to Marcelo, let me tell you the questions that we did not have time to answer will be answered by our IR team and the press release is available on our website. Marcelo, your final comments?

（翻譯）我們現在結束問答環節。我想感謝大家提出的問題。在我將發言權交還給馬塞洛之前，請允許我告訴您，我們沒有時間回答的問題將由我們的 IR 團隊來回答，新聞稿可以在我們的網站上查閱。馬塞洛，您最後還有什麼要說的嗎？

(interpreted) Thank you, Andre. Thank you, Cassiano. I want to thank you all who have joined us this morning for this earnings call the earnings of the first quarter of 2025. I am certain we will continue to work hard to deliver more and better during the year. Thank you all for your time.

（翻譯）謝謝你，安德烈。謝謝你，卡西亞諾。我要感謝今天上午參加我們 2025 年第一季財報電話會議的所有人。我確信我們將繼續努力，在今年取得更多更好的成果。謝謝大家抽出時間。

Have a great day. Thank you all.

祝你有美好的一天。謝謝大家。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。