Banco Bradesco SA (BBD) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone. I am Marcelo Noronha, CEO of Bradesco. I am here to present the earnings of the third-quarter 2024. I'm speaking at Cidade de Deus. It's a little over 10:30 AM, 10:31 AM. It's a pleasure to be with you again. Thank you for joining us. And we'll speak about the balance sheet of the third quarter, and then I'll sit with my colleagues to answer some of the questions from our colleagues of the sales side.

大家好。我是布拉德斯科公司執行長馬塞洛·諾羅尼亞。我在這裡介紹 2024 年第三季的收益。我是在 Cidade de Deus 演講。現在是上午 10 點 30 分、上午 10 點 31 分多一點。很高興再次和你在一起。感謝您加入我們。我們將討論第三季的資產負債表，然後我將與我的同事坐在一起回答銷售方面同事的一些問題。

I'll start with the earnings of Q3 '24, which we received. We had a recurring net income of 5.2 billion barrels, growing almost 11% compared to the second quarter '24. In the past quarter, as a reminder, we grew more than 12% quarter-on-quarter. So we have been delivering what we committed to do.

我將從我們收到的 24 年第三季的收益開始。我們的經常性淨利潤為 52 億桶，與 2024 年第二季相比成長了近 11%。提醒一下，上個季度我們的季度較上季成長超過 12%。因此，我們一直在兌現我們承諾要做的事情。

We don't promise things. We deliver things. And we are growing step by step consistently. And here we have a snapshot of everything we are going to present to you today during this video conference call. Our profitability is growing. It's a solid and safe profitability growth. Our NII evolves driven by client NII and reduction of loan loss provision expense.

我們不承諾任何事。我們交付東西。我們正在一步步不斷成長。這裡我們簡要介紹了今天在這次視訊電話會議中將向您展示的所有內容。我們的獲利能力正在成長。這是穩健且安全的獲利成長。我們的NII 的發展受到客戶NII 和貸款損失撥備費用減少的推動。

We'll speak more about that. Productivity gains with rising revenues, risk of credit risk controlled in the footprint adjustment, balanced credit portfolio growth, and improving delinquency ratios, operating expenses evolving as expected, and the insurance group delivering an ROE that was very relevant, almost 24%, growing practically all the lines.

我們將詳細討論這一點。生產力隨著收入的增加而提高，信貸風險在足跡調整中得到控制，信貸組合增長均衡，拖欠率改善，營業費用按預期變化，保險集團的股本回報率非常相關，接近24%，實際增長所有的線。

And we'll speak about increased stake in Cielo as a result of the tender offer we had and with the closing in the month of September. So moving forward, let's speak about total revenue in the quarter, BRL30.6 billion. And I'm always comparing quarter-on-quarter more than year-on-year.

我們將討論由於我們的要約收購以及 9 月的交割而增加的 Cielo 股份。接下來，我們來談談本季的總收入 306 億雷亞爾。我總是比較季度環比而不是同比。

So 3.7% quarter-on-quarter, and we wanted to break it down for you, fee and commission income. So we have three blocks here. Total net interest income growing 2.7% quarter-on-quarter, fee and commission income growing 2.8%, and the insurance group 8.7% growth. And we have this performance of growth comparing quarter-on-quarter, so increasing 3.7% in terms of total revenue.

季度環比成長 3.7%，我們想為您細分費用和佣金收入。所以我們這裡有三個街區。淨利息收入總額較上季成長2.7%，手續費及佣金收入較上季成長2.8%，保險集團成長8.7%。與上一季相比，我們的業績有所增長，總收入增長了 3.7%。

Our loan book, almost BRL944 billion, again, growing 3.5% quarter-on-quarter. We bring you some data of average daily origination, loan granting through digital channels, but what matters is to show you the whole set. We're growing in all segments of clients. 7.6% total, but in individuals we're growing 10%.

我們的貸款總額再次達到近 9,440 億雷亞爾，較上季成長 3.5%。我們透過數位管道為您帶來一些平均每日發放、貸款發放的數據，但重要的是向您展示整個數據集。我們在所有客戶領域都在成長。總計 7.6%，但個人成長了 10%。

Large corporates, of course, it follows its natural trend again with a positive growth of 0.7%, and small and medium-sized enterprises up almost 17%. And I'll speak more about that momentarily when we speak about the loan book.

當然，大型企業再次遵循自然趨勢，實現了 0.7% 的正成長，而中小企業則成長了近 17%。當我們談論貸款簿時，我將立即更多地談論這一點。

First conclusion, when we look at this is that we see big traction in the bank. We're growing practically 100% of the credit model that is in all segments of clients, individuals, large corporates, SMEs, but let's look at the whole macro picture because it gives us a lot of information.

當我們看到這一點時，第一個結論是我們看到銀行有很大的吸引力。我們幾乎 100% 地發展了客戶、個人、大企業、中小企業等所有細分市場的信用模型，但讓我們看看整個宏觀情況，因為它為我們提供了很多資訊。

First on individuals, growing 3.9% quarter-on-quarter. Now let's look at the minutes. Payroll deductible loans. I think that the Brazilian Central Bank communicated their September statistics. We grew a little bit above the market, but please note we grew 0.25% more than the market. So we're growing in line with the market, perhaps with a little more traction, but let's see where we're growing.

首先是個人，季增 3.9%。現在讓我們來看看會議記錄。薪資可扣除貸款。我認為巴西央行公佈了 9 月的統計數據。我們的成長略高於市場，但請注意我們的成長比市場高 0.25%。因此，我們的成長與市場保持一致，也許有更多的牽引力，但讓我們看看我們的成長方向。

Payroll loans, we grew 2%. The market grew 1.9%, and we have an important portfolio, collateralized portfolio. The same goes to vehicle, 4%, real estate finance, which brings a lot of client principality and long-term relationship of 3.3% and 11.2% year-on-year, and this applies to rural loans with 16.5% growth.

薪資貸款增加了 2%。市場成長了 1.9%，我們有一個重要的投資組合，抵押投資組合。同樣的還有汽車金融，4%，房地產金融，帶來了大量的客戶本金和長期關係，年比分別成長3.3%和11.2%，農村貸款也是如此，成長了16.5%。

So when we look at the whole mix, we are talking about growing loans to individuals, but in very safe lines of credit with collaterals. In the case of credit card, quarter-on-quarter, we grew 2.2%. However, when we break down the portfolio and look at high net worth clients, we're growing 4.5%.

因此，當我們審視整個組合時，我們正在談論增加向個人提供的貸款，但其信用額度和抵押品非常安全。就信用卡而言，季度環比增長了 2.2%。然而，當我們細分投資組合併關注高淨值客戶時，我們的成長率為 4.5%。

So when we speak about NII, you will note that in the case of credit card, it's losing share in our NII because the lower income clients, they are more prone to pay in installment, pay more interest and have more revolving credit. The high income is a transector. They pay their statements fully every month, so we gain based on interchange of fees and not based on intermediation fees.

因此，當我們談論 NII 時，您會注意到，就信用卡而言，它正在失去我們 NII 中的份額，因為收入較低的客戶更傾向於分期付款、支付更多利息並擁有更多循環信貸。高收入是橫斷面。他們每月全額支付帳單，因此我們的收益是基於費用交換而不是中介費用。

When I look at consumer credit, we're growing 5.9%, quarter-on-quarter. When we look at this accounting line item, that's growth of personal loans with very high margins. But what I mean to say is that we are doing our homework so we can have a good quality of assets. What we are originating here is half of personal loans we're originating is with collaterals, guarantees.

當我觀察消費者信貸時，我們的季度環比增長了 5.9%。當我們查看這個會計項目時，這是利潤率非常高的個人貸款的成長。但我想說的是，我們正在做功課，這樣我們才能擁有良好的資產品質。我們在這裡發放的個人貸款中有一半是帶有抵押品和擔保的。

Secondly, the other half of this is personal loans to high net worth individuals, and only a small part is going to lower income individuals with a slightly higher margin, and it requires more provisions. But overall, it is not going to change our curve of losses and delinquency. What does this mean? It means we're working with smaller spreads.

其次，另一半是針對高淨值人士的個人貸款，只有一小部分是針對低收入者的，利潤率稍高，需要更多的撥備。但總體而言，這不會改變我們的損失和拖欠曲線。這意味著什麼？這意味著我們正在以較小的價差進行工作。

When I look at payroll, deductible loans, the INS loan, the spread we're working with is 30% lower than the spread we used to work with the NII that we used to have before for INSS. That's why external channels find it hard to make new INSS operations more difficult because 100% of what we've originated is sold through our own channels.

當我查看薪資單、可扣除貸款、INS 貸款時，我們正在使用的利差比我們以前為 INSS 處理的 NII 的利差低 30%。這就是為什麼外部管道很難讓新的 INSS 營運變得更加困難，因為我們 100% 的原創產品都是透過我們自己的管道出售的。

So we have a much safer portfolio requiring much less provisions and with an NII growing, but growing steadily because we're working with better quality. With companies, we are growing 3.2% quarter-on-quarter. When we speak about micro and SMEs, we're talking about 5% increase.

因此，我們擁有更安全的投資組合，需要更少的準備金，NII 不斷增長，但由於我們正在以更好的品質開展工作，因此穩步增長。對於公司而言，我們季度環比成長 3.2%。當我們談論微型和中小企業時，我們談論的是 5% 的成長。

Please note that our big growth comes from the middle market. With companies earning more than BRL50 million in per annum, the other one's growing more, but in the other segments. In retail, the SMEs making between BRL3 million to BRL50 million, they're also growing. We're growing on all of them, but we're growing even more in the middle market.

請注意，我們的巨大成長來自中間市場。隨著公司年收入超過 5,000 萬雷亞爾，另一家公司的成長速度更快，但在其他領域。在零售業，年收入在 300 萬至 5,000 萬雷亞爾之間的中小企業也在不斷成長。我們在所有這些方面都在成長，但我們在中間市場的成長甚至更快。

Now let's look at the portfolio. Real estate, 5.5% with collateral guarantees. In foreign trade finance, we have a lot of traction with large companies and with the middle market with a cost of risk that is very good and the same applies to CDC and vehicle leasing, growing 2.3%.

現在讓我們來看看投資組合。房地產，5.5%，有抵押擔保。在外貿金融方面，我們對大公司和中間市場有很大的吸引力，風險成本非常好，CDC和車輛租賃也是如此，成長了2.3%。

When we break down working capital, you will see in the full income statement that we have securities with the ventures and working capital. So net of the large companies and if we focus on the middle market and small businesses, these two segments up to BRL3 million and BRL3 million to BRL50 million, what do we find?

當我們細分營運資金時，您會在完整的損益表中看到我們擁有創投和營運資金的證券。因此，除去大公司，如果我們專注於中間市場和小型企業，這兩個細分市場高達 300 萬雷亞爾和 300 萬雷亞爾到 5000 萬雷亞爾，我們會發現什麼？

For your information, number one, in some segments, a whole origination or 80% of origination is collateralized. Real guarantees or we can ensure good quality receivables. Or we work with government programs such as ProCred, ProNEP, and FGI. Depending on these, we go to BRL4.8 million turnover a year in the case of FGI with companies of up to BRL300 million. So we're growing quite well here.

供您參考，第一，在某些細分市場中，整個起源或 80% 的起源都是有抵押的。真正的保證或我們可以保證良好的應收帳款品質。或者我們與 ProCred、ProNEP 和 FGI 等政府計畫合作。根據這些因素，對於規模高達 3 億雷亞爾的 FGI 公司，我們每年的營業額達到 480 萬雷亞爾。所以我們在這裡發展得很好。

So what is the decision? What was our decision in the beginning with all of the modeling? Our guiding star for decision making regarding risk appetite and growth, it's called RAR, risk adjusted return. We ran a lot of simulations in terms of growing working capital for small businesses and we realized that even with a much higher rate, we had an RAR much higher of 60% when we operate with FGI and ProNEP. This is what is guiding us.

那麼決定是什麼？我們一開始對所有建模的決定是什麼？我們關於風險偏好和成長的決策的指導星，稱為 RAR，風險調整回報。我們在小型企業營運資本成長方面進行了大量模擬，我們意識到，即使採用更高的比率，當我們使用 FGI 和 ProNEP 營運時，我們的 RAR 仍高得多，高達 60%。這就是指導我們的。

NII is lower, but the level of cost of risk and provisions is much lower and this gives us stability with this portfolio mix and this gives us a piece of money and looking at the future considering everything that we are doing lower NII.

NII 較低，但風險和撥備成本水準要低得多，這使我們的投資組合組合保持穩定，這為我們提供了一筆資金，並考慮到我們正在做的一切，降低NII，展望未來。

When we grant loans for working capital with ProNEP or FGI, the margin is 5%, 5.5%, perhaps one line with a slightly higher, but this is more geared to high and middle and large companies than for SMEs. On the other hand, losses are almost zero here. So we have good modeling, good models, good traction. This is what we've been doing. And I can tell you, Bradesco is one of the leaders in granting these types of loans in the Brazilian market.

當我們用ProNEP或FGI發放營運資金貸款時，利潤率是5%、5.5%，可能略高一點，但這更適合高中、大公司，而不是中小企業。另一方面，這裡的損失幾乎是零。所以我們有好的造型、好的模型、好的牽引力。這就是我們一直在做的事情。我可以告訴你，布拉德斯科是巴西市場上提供此類貸款的領導者之一。

Now talking about credit vintages, based on the 100 average of 2019, this was our level of origination. I'm speaking about mass market individuals. So we continue with a very good balance in our vintages, over 30 Mob4 or growing production, but based on those modalities I mentioned. Origination was very good in Q3, but always looking at the mix and the rating of clients.

現在談論信用年份，根據 2019 年 100 的平均值，這是我們的起源水平。我說的是大眾市場的個人。因此，我們繼續在我們的年份中保持非常好的平衡，超過 30 個 Mob4 或不斷增長的產量，但基於我提到的那些模式。第三季的起源非常好，但始終關注客戶的組合和評級。

I remember that in the prior quarter I mentioned this. In the case of individuals, in 2019 we had 50%, 51% individuals with a rating between A and B, 74%, 75% in addition to having this mix. And that's why delinquency is dropping. And we obviously need fewer provisions for these vintages. And this is what we're seeing in our cost of risk.

我記得在上個季度我提到過這一點。就我個人而言，2019 年，我們有 50%、51% 的個人評級介於 A 和 B 之間，除此之外還有 74%、75%。這就是犯罪率下降的原因。我們顯然需要更少的這些年份的供應。這就是我們在風險成本中看到的情況。

Now looking at mass market companies I'm looking at SMEs, same base, 100, 2019 average. We have very good vintages. In the past quarter you asked about this growing way below 100, but note with the bars that the level of origination is not so leveraged as it is with individuals. There are marked differences in the market.

現在，在關注大眾市場公司時，我關注的是中小企業，同樣的基數，2019 年平均值為 100 家。我們有非常好的年份。在上個季度，您詢問了這一成長速度低於 100 的問題，但請注意，從長條圖來看，起源水平並不像個人那樣具有槓桿作用。市場上存在明顯差異。

Individuals are growing in real length and growing more than 6%. Level of unemployment in Brazil is 6.7%, but the companies are different. And we want to operate safely with our portfolio mix. And we can see over 90 days delinquency reducing, requiring fewer provisions, so net interest income is here.

個體的實際長度正在成長，成長超過6%。巴西失業率為6.7%，但各公司情況不同。我們希望我們的投資組合能夠安全地運作。我們可以看到超過 90 天的拖欠率減少，所需準備金減少，因此淨利息收入就在這裡。

Let's look at credit cards. It used to have a share in the past year ago, 8%, dropping to 7.5%. That's what I mean. I'm working with the transactors with a better risk. Market NII, we have been talking about this with our investor relations team, and our focus is on the NII net of provisions based on risk adjusted return, growing 6.8%, growing consistently.

我們來看看信用卡。去年的份額由8%下降至7.5%。這就是我的意思。我正在與風險較高的交易者合作。市場NII，我們一直在與投資者關係團隊討論這個問題，我們的重點是基於風險調整回報的扣除撥備後的NII淨額，增長6.8%，持續增長。

And what we need to look at here is that NII of 8 or 9, it depends on the mix. We have to know how much we'll deliver in terms of cost of provision, to have the best combinations, 8 or 9? No problem. But how much will it cost for us to deliver constant growth in our NII? That's when we look at RAR for our decision making.

我們在這裡需要關注的是 NII 為 8 或 9，這取決於組合。我們必須知道我們將提供多少供應成本，以獲得最佳組合，8 個還是 9 個？沒問題。但是，要實現國家資訊基礎設施的持續成長，我們需要花費多少成本？這時我們會考慮 RAR 來做決策。

And I can tell you, in payroll deductible loans, the level of RAR is good, it's high, with traction. But in the case of INS loans, the spread is 30% lower compared to what we are originating now, compared to what used to be originated before the prices were controlled. RAR, in working capital, again, it is a high RAR, sometimes 60% in the programs with guarantees.

我可以告訴你，在工資可扣除貸款中，RAR 的水平很好，很高，具有吸引力。但就 INS 貸款而言，與我們現在發放的貸款相比，與價格受到控制之前發放的貸款相比，利差低了 30%。RAR，在營運資金方面，同樣，它是一個很高的 RAR，有時在有擔保的計劃中為 60%。

Then we get to credit indicators. All one indicator is dropping. Delinquency, of course, will start dropping at a lower pace. But we have stable coverage ratios and LPL creation as well. You can see it on the slide. Expenses with expended loan loss provisions, of course, are dropping. And we'll have fewer loan loss provisions in the new vintages because we have better quality vintages and we have the portfolio makes.

然後我們來看看信用指標。所有一項指標都在下降。當然，拖欠率將開始以較低的速度下降。但我們也有穩定的覆蓋率和 LPL 創造。您可以在幻燈片上看到它。當然，支出貸款損失準備金的費用正在下降。我們將在新年份中減少貸款損失準備金，因為我們擁有更好的品質年份，我們擁有投資組合。

And, of course, improved efficiency, not only with modeling, with our credit policies, portfolio management, and also improved efficiency in the collection work of our credit team. And I'm speaking about fee and commission income. I'll speak about Cielo. Here we have the normalization of this consolidation. We closed the tender offer of Cielo in September.

當然，效率的提升不僅體現在建模方面，也體現在我們的信貸政策、投資組合管理方面，也體現在我們信貸團隊的催收工作方面。我說的是費用和佣金收入。我要談談切洛。在這裡，我們看到了這種整合的正常化。我們在 9 月完成了 Cielo 的收購要約。

Our fee and commission's income, excluding this, was 2.8, excluding the tree stake in Cielo. And 4.3%, comparing nine months of '24 with nine months of '23. And Cielo, in this case, did not bring us any quarterly gain. Actually, we had a negative consolidation. Our earnings would have been a little higher if we had not had the negative consolidation of Cielo.

除去這個，我們的手續費和佣金收入是 2.8，不包括 Cielo 的樹股份。24 年的 9 個月與 23 年的 9 個月相比，為 4.3%。在這種情況下，Cielo 並沒有為我們帶來任何季度收益。事實上，我們經歷了負面整合。如果我們沒有 Cielo 的負面合併，我們的收益會更高一些。

And I'm speaking directly about current income. Draw your attention to the fact that growth net of Cielo would be 0.3% quarter-on-quarter. But we have an important comparison when we look at high income, 15% against 1.5% year-on-year. I talked about the transactors. Well, this is what is moving us.

我直接談論目前的收入。請注意 Cielo 的季度淨增長率為 0.3%。但當我們考慮高收入時，我們有一個重要的比較，即年比 15% 和 1.5%。我談到了交易者。嗯，這就是讓我們感動的地方。

And please note that we are growing practically all revenue streams, whatever the period you look at. And I draw your attention to the increase of our AUM, increasing BRL55 billion at Bram. Bram and TVU will have an AUM close to BRL1 trillion. And this is reflected in an increase in fee and commission's income of 11% for asset management. Bradesco asset won very important awards in the sector.

請注意，無論您在哪個時期，我們幾乎所有收入來源都在成長。我提請您注意我們的資產管理規模 (AUM) 的成長，Bram 的資產管理規模增加了 550 億雷亞爾。Bram 和 TVU 的資產管理規模將接近 1 兆雷亞爾。這體現在資管手續費及佣金收入成長11%。Bradesco 資產贏得了該行業非常重要的獎項。

Next, looking at operating expenses. The same thing I said about Cielo. When we normalize the consolidation of Cielo, we're talking about a 2% growth quarter-on-quarter. And in the nine months, which is what goes into the guidance, 9.1%. But look at the red box now. If we look at personnel plus administrative expenses, our growth in the organization is 0.6% quarter on nine months, 4.6%, so perfectly controlled.

接下來，看看營運費用。我對 Cielo 也說過同樣的話。當我們使 Cielo 的整合正常化時，我們談論的是季度環比增長 2%。在九個月內，也就是指導中的內容，為 9.1%。但現在看看紅色方框。如果我們考慮人員加上管理費用，我們的組織成長率是 0.6%，在 9 個月的季度中成長了 4.6%，因此得到了完美的控制。

When we have a trend upwards in this indicator, we may have tax expenses, labor expenses without considering the consolidation of Cielo, the card business. However, we have been investing in Alelo, Livelo, and the growth of operating expenses there has been a high two-digit. And even Cielo is now investing in their transformation.

當我們這個指標呈現上升趨勢時，我們可能會有稅務費用、人工費用，而不考慮卡片業務Cielo的整合。不過，我們一直在投資Alelo、Livelo，那裡的營運費用成長一直高達兩位數。甚至 Cielo 現在也在投資他們的轉型。

But if we exclude that, if we look at the banking business plus the insurance group, then the growth would not have been 8.4%, it would have been 7.2% in line with our plan, even with the investment we've made.

但如果我們排除這一點，如果我們看看銀行業務加上保險集團，那麼成長就不會是8.4%，而是7.2%，符合我們的計劃，即使我們已經進行了投資。

Now, it's also important to look at our footprint revision, another 415 transactions. So we come to the third quarter with a change in 1,041 points of sale. We had an expectation of 1,000 points of sale, 250 transformations. The number we delivered is higher, but we're still accelerating now in the fourth quarter of 2024, although our client base is grown. Now, additional 1.8 million clients.

現在，查看我們的足跡修訂版（另外 415 筆交易）也很重要。因此，第三季銷售點發生了 1,041 個變化。我們預計有 1,000 個銷售點、250 個改造。我們交付的數量更高，但儘管我們的客戶群有所成長，但我們在 2024 年第四季仍在加速交付。現在，新增了 180 萬客戶。

If we look at the insurance group, we had a great performance. This level of growth and premium revenue with a net income of 2.4 billion and ROE of 23.7%, a growth of 8.1% quarter-on-quarter. And if we look at insurance operations, we had 8.7% quarter-on-quarter and 4.2% compared to the same period last year, the nine month.

如果我們看看保險集團，我們的表現非常出色。這一水準的成長和保費收入帶來的淨利潤為24億，ROE為23.7%，較上季成長8.1%。如果我們看一下保險業務，季度環比成長 8.7%，去年同期（前九個月）成長 4.2%。

And look at the combined ratio also coming down to 86.6%. You will have all of these figures in our presentation. Our Tier 1 Basel ratio growing 0.1 quarter-on-quarter, it's now 12.7%, stable capital. This is what we're showing. Coming to our guidance, we had the normalization of Cielo in the mid column.

綜合成本率也下降至 86.6%。您將在我們的演示中看到所有這些數字。我們的巴塞爾一級資本比率季增 0.1，目前為 12.7%，資本穩定。這就是我們所展示的。根據我們的指導，我們在中間欄位中對 Cielo 進行了標準化。

And when we look at the expended loan portfolio, we've announced earlier this year that we were in line with the guidance, and that's it. We're delivering as planned. When we look at net interest income and expended loan loss provisions, and we always talk about these two indicators hand-in-hand, you can see the NII, which is important because it impacts our bottom line.

當我們查看支出的貸款組合時，我們在今年早些時候宣布我們符合指導方針，僅此而已。我們正在按計劃交付。當我們查看淨利息收入和支出貸款損失撥備時，我們總是同時談論這兩個指標，您可以看到NII，這很重要，因為它影響我們的利潤。

You look at our fee and commission's income, including and excluding Cielo operating expenses and the income from insurance, where you have a combination of the baseline in the previous quarter. It was excluded from the guidance, but it is now included and we will deliver the guidance as planned.

您查看我們的費用和佣金收入，包括但不包括 Cielo 營運費用和保險收入，其中您有上一季基準的組合。它被排除在指南之外，但現在已包含在內，我們將按計劃提供指南。

Now, a few topics about the change the bank. This is a balance of what we delivered at this quarter. We now have a new IT colleague. We have made progress in our culture. We conducted a survey with 74% response as a great level of engagement, and we're still growing. We have hired not only IT professionals, and of course, that increases operating expenses, but we've hired senior professionals who have joined our team at the bank.

現在，關於銀行變革的幾個主題。這是我們本季交付的餘額。我們現在有一位新的 IT 同事。我們的文化取得了進步。我們進行了一項調查，74% 的受訪者表示參與度很高，而且我們仍在成長。我們不僅聘請了 IT 專業人員（當然，這會增加營運費用），而且還聘請了加入我們銀行團隊的高級專業人員。

We invested in our business unit for credit, also in middle market, with eight units, eight new branches last quarter. We've also invested in fixed income so that we have more resources to be able to meet the demand. We are also continuing our efforts in footprint adjustment. Two inter-gammic items are here. I told you we have completed Cielo tender offer, and that did not really impact our result.

我們投資了信貸業務部門，也在中間市場，上季有八個部門、八個新分公司。我們也投資了固定收益，以便我們擁有更多資源來滿足需求。我們還在繼續努力調整足跡。這裡有兩個 gammic 間的項目。我告訴過你，我們已經完成了 Cielo 收購要約，這並沒有真正影響我們的結果。

I mean, it had a slight negative impact. Our result could have been a little better, and the John Deere Bank acquisition had an approval by CADE. We're expecting the Brazilian Central Bank approval to close the deal this year. So, eight months after we launched the plan. We are now launching a new segment of clients for high net worth individuals, and I'll speak more about that.

我的意思是，它產生了輕微的負面影響。我們的結果本來可以好一點，約翰迪爾銀行的收購得到了 CADE 的批准。我們預計巴西央行會批准今年完成這項交易。所以，在我們啟動該計劃八個月後。我們現在正在為高淨值人士推出一個新的客戶群，我將對此進行更多討論。

That's our expectation for the last quarter, more investment in digital channels. We will have more hires in technology. We will continue to review our footprint. We will also expand SMEs and that segment between BRL3 million and BRL50 million a year. We are also accelerating our gains in cash management.

這是我們對上季度的預期，即對數位管道進行更多投資。我們將僱用更多技術人員。我們將繼續審查我們的足跡。我們還將擴大中小企業和該領域每年 300 萬至 5000 萬雷亞爾的規模。我們也正在加快現金管理的進展。

As I mentioned last quarter about Bradesco Expresso, we delivered two platforms. We were going to do the rollout until the end of November, but yesterday we concluded the branch rollout, bringing a better experience to our service centers and also to all users of Bradesco Expresso. And in the next quarter, I'll bring more news about this.

正如我上季度提到的 Bradesco Expresso，我們提供了兩個平台。我們原計劃在 11 月底之前進行部署，但昨天我們完成了分行的部署，為我們的服務中心以及 Bradesco Expresso 的所有用戶帶來了更好的體驗。在下個季度，我將帶來更多有關這方面的消息。

Now, coming to the conclusions, we have been able to grow profitability with a solid and safe position. Our top line is growing. We have traction in all segments and products, but focusing on the risk-adjusted return, the RAR, because that will determine our net income. We have a new segmentation for individuals. We will talk about that.

現在得出結論，我們已經能夠以穩固和安全的地位來提高獲利能力。我們的收入正在成長。我們在所有細分市場和產品中都具有吸引力，但專注於風險調整後的回報率（RAR），因為這將決定我們的淨利潤。我們對個人進行了新的細分。我們會討論這個。

In our transformation efforts, we are accelerating the execution of our plan, and now that's the reason why we're all wearing the Red Fest. This is Bradesco's color, but it's a brand new tone because we now have a new segment for high net worth individuals. It is here under the Wealth Management Vertical with a different value proposition for our high net worth individual clients.

在我們的轉型努力中，我們正在加速執行我們的計劃，這就是我們現在都穿著紅色節日的原因。這是 Bradesco 的顏色，但它是一種全新的色調，因為我們現在為高淨值人士提供了一個新的細分市場。它位於財富管理垂直領域，為我們的高淨值個人客戶提供不同的價值主張。

I will now show you a video. It's a three-minute video because we could not give you a longer presentation, but this video will be talking about the new segment, and the video is presented by the project leader, the person in charge of implementing the new segment, Andressa Auge. So let us now watch the video, and I will come here for the Q&A session we will have immediately after the video.

我現在給你看一個影片。這是一個三分鐘的視頻，因為我們無法給您更長的演示，但該視頻將討論新段，並且該視頻由項目負責人、新段實施負責人 Andressa Auge 介紹。現在讓我們觀看視頻，我將在視頻結束後立即參加問答環節。

We also have our colleagues to talk to you, to talk to the buy side and to the sell side. So let's watch the video, and then we will be here with Cassiano and Andre to answer your questions. Thank you for being with us. Let us now look at our new segment. Thank you.

我們也有我們的同事與您交談，與買方和賣方交談。那麼讓我們觀看視頻，然後我們將與卡西亞諾和安德烈一起回答您的問題。感謝您與我們同在。現在讓我們看看我們的新部分。謝謝。

(video playing)

（影片播放）

That's great. So this was a summary of our new segment we saw on the video. I must tell you, we feel great pride in this team that worked to launch the new segment. We have three flagships, which you can actually see in the (technical difficulty) One will be here on Faria Lima and Juscelino Kubitschek, another one in Rio in the neighborhood of Leblon, and one more unit in Campinas. As of tomorrow, our team will be there. They have been trained, and we will begin to invite our clients to enjoy this new experience.

那太棒了。這是我們在影片中看到的新片段的摘要。我必須告訴你，我們對這個致力於推出新細分市場的團隊感到非常自豪。我們擁有三艘旗艦，您實際上可以在（技術難度）中看到，其中一艘位於法裡亞利馬和朱塞利諾庫比契克，另一艘位於裡約熱內盧的萊布隆附近，還有一艘位於坎皮納斯。從明天開始，我們的團隊就會在那裡。他們已經接受過培訓，我們將開始邀請我們的客戶享受這種新體驗。

By late January '25, we will have between 45,000 and 50,000 clients in the new segment, which we will continue to expand until 2026. We will also have geographical expansion throughout Brazil in the main locations that have been selected for this new segment for high net worth individuals with a new value proposition for these clients. And I believe we will have more opportunity to talk about that in the future with you. And now, Andre, over to you.

到 25 年 1 月下旬，我們的新細分市場將擁有 45,000 至 50,000 名客戶，我們將繼續擴大這一規模，直到 2026 年。我們還將在整個巴西的主要地點進行地域擴張，這些地點是為高淨值人士選擇的新細分市場，並為這些客戶提供新的價值主張。我相信未來我們會有更多機會與大家討論這個問題。現在，安德烈，交給你了。

Thank you, Marcelo. Thank you, Cassiana. It's a pleasure to be here with you. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to tell you that Ivan Gontijo, CEO of our insurance group, is here with us today. Remotely, he is with us online.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。謝謝你，卡西亞娜。很高興和你在一起。大家早安。我想告訴大家，我們保險集團的執行長 Ivan Gontijo 今天也來到了我們這裡。他遠程地與我們在線。

You can ask your questions either in Portuguese or English. You just have to send your questions by email to investidores@bradesco.com.br or you can use this WhatsApp number 11 97443 8238. Or you can use this QR code.

您可以用葡萄牙語或英語提問。您只需透過電子郵件將您的問題發送至investidores@bradesco.com.br，或者您也可以使用WhatsApp 號碼11 97443 8238。或者您可以使用此二維碼。

Eduardo Rossman, BTG.

愛德華多·羅斯曼，BTG。

Hello, good morning, everyone. I have a question. Hello, good morning. I apologize. My camera is not working, so I only have the picture today. But my question is about the low in portfolio growth. You are again opening the doors of the bank for clients looking for loans. You will try and recover that loss of market share and the loss of principality with these clients. But when we look at the low in portfolio, the profitability is lower, not only in corporate, but also in payroll-deducted loans.

大家早安。我有一個問題。你好早安。我道歉。我的相機壞了，所以今天只有照片。但我的問題是投資組合成長緩慢。您再次為尋求貸款的客戶敞開銀行的大門。您將嘗試挽回市場份額的損失以及與這些客戶的關係損失。但當我們看到投資組合較低時，獲利能力較低，不僅在企業方面，而且在扣除薪資的貸款方面也是如此。

Even Noronha spoke about that in his presentation. So I'd like to hear from you about growth and the prospect of growth. And what is your number one concern if inflation and employment, or maybe the price, you would have to be more prudent with that. I'd like to understand the speed of this recovery?

就連諾羅尼亞也在他的演講中談到了這一點。因此，我想聽聽您關於成長和成長前景的意見。如果通貨膨脹和就業，或者可能是價格，你最關心的是什麼，你必須對此更加謹慎。我想了解一下這個恢復速度？

Thank you, Rossman, for the question. It is a deep question. And it certainly relates back to what I said. Yes, we are conducting this movement based on data. We want to have the right mix and the right ratings. Because let's think about it. Think about an individual who went through financial stress in the last three years.

謝謝羅斯曼的提問。這是一個很深奧的問題。這肯定與我所說的有關。是的，我們正在根據數據進行這項運動。我們希望擁有正確的組合和正確的收視率。因為讓我們考慮一下。想想一個在過去三年中經歷過經濟壓力的人。

Have they recovered completely?

他們完全康復了嗎？

They may have a job. Their real individual income is growing more than 6% a year.

他們可能有工作。他們的實際個人收入每年增長超過6%。

But have these people truly been able to pay back their liabilities?

但這些人真的有能力還清債務嗎？

Well, if you look at banks' models, you will see many of them have not. So we do not want to play the game of financial stress. We want to have a safe portfolio with the right risk-adjusted return, because that has an impact on the bottom line. So for example, you say, well, I had an expectation of a higher NII. Oh, well, some time ago, we prepared a new plan, a 60-day plan. We conducted, we've executed the plan. And we were looking at a certain level of risk. I mean, we have a very high penetration in all client segments. Otherwise, we wouldn't have so much traction as we do. However, as we built this new business unit and with the integrated work we were conducting, what have we seen?

好吧，如果你看看銀行的模型，你會發現很多銀行都沒有這樣做。所以我們不想玩財務壓力的遊戲。我們希望擁有一個安全的投資組合，並具有適當的風險調整回報，因為這會對利潤產生影響。舉例來說，你說，嗯，我期望有更高的NII。哦,嗯,前陣子,我們準備了一個新的計劃,一個60天的計劃。我們執行了，我們已經執行了計劃。我們正在考慮一定程度的風險。我的意思是，我們在所有客戶群中都有很高的滲透率。否則，我們不會有如此大的吸引力。然而，當我們建立這個新的業務部門並進行整合工作時，我們看到了什麼？

Well, we realized that if we could use FGI and ProNEP more, we would have a much better risk-adjusted return, because although the NII can be lower, you need much less provisions. And so that is a more attractive way of business for us. If you look at a ranking of these different collateral projects, ProNEP, FGI, you will see that Bradesco has a great traction. And we have a very attractive risk-adjusted return. So looking at our channels, we're always looking for the best RAR, because that's the name of the game. We may not have a quick growth of NII, but we have a significant growth of our profit, of our net income. So don't be surprised. Our provisions are now lower than in the past.

好吧，我們意識到，如果我們能夠更多地使用 FGI 和 ProNEP，我們將獲得更好的風險調整回報，因為儘管 NII 可以更低，但您需要的準備金卻少得多。因此，這對我們來說是一種更具吸引力的業務方式。如果您查看 ProNEP、FGI 這些不同抵押貸款項目的排名，您會發現 Bradesco 具有很大的吸引力。我們擁有非常有吸引力的風險調整回報。因此，在我們的頻道中，我們一直在尋找最好的 RAR，因為這就是遊戲的名稱。我們的NII可能不會快速成長，但我們的利潤和淨利潤卻顯著成長。所以不要感到驚訝。我們的準備金現在比過去還要低。

Why?

為什麼？

Oh, well, because the quality of risk is much better. And also, the mix has a much better quality. And when we look at the current economic scenario, Rossman, I can tell you that looking at our strategy, we feel very confident about what we've been doing. I've just had a meeting with journalists, and one of the journalists asked about the economic scenario. Said, well, the economic scenario has worsened. What is that? What do we mean by a worsened economic scenario?

哦，好吧，因為風險的品質要好得多。而且，混合物的品質要好得多。羅斯曼，當我們審視當前的經濟狀況時，我可以告訴你，審視我們的策略，我們對我們一直在做的事情非常有信心。我剛與記者會面，其中一位記者詢問了經濟狀況。說，好吧，經濟狀況已經惡化。那是什麼？經濟情勢惡化是什麼意思？

First, if we look at the current scenario, we may have a deterioration. But I think this is less probable. This is less probable than the second option. A benign outlook, we are not really considering. So we may have a change in the exchange rate. Yes, we may. And inflation will certainly grow more, grow faster. I mean, this would be a more stressed scenario, but I don't really believe in it. Let's wait for the new measures to be taken by the Finance Minister, Minister Haddad, because yesterday we had important statements where we will have more expenses, which means that we will need more expense control. And we believe this is good news.

首先，如果我們看看目前的情況，情況可能會惡化。但我認為這種可能性較小。與第二種選擇相比，這種可能性較小。良好的前景，我們並沒有真正考慮。所以我們的匯率可能會改變。是的，我們可以。通貨膨脹肯定會成長得更多、更快。我的意思是，這將是一個壓力更大的情況，但我不太相信它。讓我們等待財政部長哈達德部長採取新措施，因為昨天我們發表了重要聲明，我們將有更多開支，這意味著我們需要更多的開支控制。我們相信這是個好消息。

However, what do I view as the most probable scenario? Interest rates growing up into 13%, maybe closing the year at [1175]. And the unemployment in Brazil is currently 6.7%. However, there are regional variations. For example, Sao Paulo has a higher unemployment, and also center west that has 5.2 unemployment rate. You see, so we have regional differences in Brazil. And the GDP will be growing 3% this year, inflation about 4.5%. If this is the scenario we expect, well, what will we have next year? And real income is growing this year, 6.3% with this level of unemployment. And if we project this scenario towards the future, Rossman, what will we see?

但是，我認為最有可能的情況是什麼？利率升至 13%，年底可能為[1175].目前巴西失業率為6.7%。然而，存在地區差異。例如，聖保羅的失業率較高，中西部地區的失業率為5.2。你看，巴西存在地區差異。今年GDP將成長3%，通膨率約4.5%。如果這是我們所期望的情況，那麼明年我們會遇到什麼？在失業率處於這一水平的情況下，今年實際收入成長了 6.3%。羅斯曼，如果我們將這種情況投射到未來，我們會看到什麼？

I mean, I'm sharing more information with you using your question, Rossman. We will see the GDP will probably grow slower, about 2%, 2.1%, but there will be growth. The expected unemployment level will not be very different from 8%. In the conclusion, I'll come to the conclusion in a minute.

我的意思是，羅斯曼，我將透過您的問題與您分享更多。我們會看到GDP可能成長得更慢，大約2%、2.1%，但會有成長。預期失業率與8%相差不會太大。結論方面，我一會兒就會下結論。

And what about real income?

那麼實際收入又如何呢？

It may grow between 2% and 2.5% next year. So look here, the market for individuals will possibly be good. We have great traction. That's what we want because this is risk we consider good. We've actively participated in the auction of the INSS because we want to have a clear strategy to operate in this line of business. So we will continue to monitor this scenario. If we had a financial stress, we feel safe because of our current mix. Now, for individuals, but what we are truly looking at is the risk-adjusted return. This is what really moves the needle.

明年可能成長2%至2.5%。所以看這裡，個人市場可能會很好。我們有很大的吸引力。這就是我們想要的，因為我們認為這是好的風險。我們積極參與 INSS 的拍賣，因為我們希望有一個明確的策略來經營這項業務。因此我們將繼續關注這一情況。如果我們有財務壓力，我們會因為目前的組合而感到安全。現在，對於個人來說，我們真正關注的是風險調整後的回報。這才是真正令人感動的事。

Now, looking at the company clients, because of these programs that provide collaterals and because of the specific credit lines we're offering, we feel confident about what we've been doing. And we're growing in cross-sell. We are attracting new clients. We are attracting companies' payroll. So my answer to that journalist was, what is the scenario? Will it deteriorate? But what does it mean? It means this, but is this probable? Well, it depends. And depending on what happens, we'll make a decision. I fear for the country. Nobody wants to see high unemployment. Nobody wants to see economy growing slower. We don't want financial stress.

現在，看看公司客戶，由於這些提供抵押品的計劃以及我們提供的特定信貸額度，我們對我們一直在做的事情充滿信心。我們的交叉銷售也在不斷成長。我們正在吸引新客戶。我們正在吸引公司的薪水。所以我對那位記者的回答是，情況是什麼？會惡化嗎？但這意味著什麼呢？意思是這樣，但這有可能嗎？嗯，這取決於。根據發生的情況，我們將做出決定。我為國家擔心。沒有人願意看到高失業率。沒有人願意看到經濟成長放緩。我們不要經濟壓力。

So I hope the most probable scenario will materialize. And it's not bad. It's not a bad scenario at all for our country. And also, it's not bad for our business, because the next question is, and what will happen to me? Maybe for different industries, you will have different consequences. But for us here, we are very much aware of the current scenario. We see a good correlation in terms of interest rate increase. We continue to monitor our risk models and also NPL.

所以我希望最有可能的情況能夠實現。這還不錯。對我們國家來說，這根本不是一個糟糕的情況。而且，這對我們的業務來說也不錯，因為下一個問題是，我會發生什麼事？也許對於不同的行業，你會產生不同的後果。但對於我們這裡來說，我們非常了解目前的情況。我們看到利率上升之間有良好的相關性。我們繼續監控我們的風險模型和不良貸款。

However, we have two important variables here, especially one, which is when the population loses income. And how may that happen? Well, if you have a very high inflation, if you look at the current deviation that would be the price of beef today. But the other prices seem to be under control. And the other issue would be if the unemployment rate would soar, because that would end up reducing individuals' income.

然而，我們這裡有兩個重要的變量，尤其是一個，即人們何時失去收入。那怎麼可能發生呢？好吧，如果通貨膨脹非常高，如果你看看當前的偏差，那就是今天的牛肉價格。但其他價格似乎受到控制。另一個問題是失業率是否會飆升，因為最終會減少個人收入。

But this is what we project. I believe we will have a controlled expected loss and lower provisions for the new ventures and a growing NII. We will be growing in fee and commission income. We will be also growing in the insurance group. That's where we place our expectations. I'm sorry for such a long answer. I just wanted to add more information about the current economic scenario.

但這就是我們的計劃。我相信我們將控制預期損失並降低新企業和不斷增長的國家資訊基礎設施的準備金。我們的費用和佣金收入將會成長。我們的保險集團也將持續發展。這就是我們寄予期望的地方。我很抱歉回答這麼長。我只是想添加更多有關當前經濟狀況的資訊。

Thank you, Marcelo and Rossman. Positive macro scenario, portfolio growth, inclined NII growing looking forward.

謝謝馬塞洛和羅斯曼。正面的宏觀情境、投資組合成長、NII 預期成長。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

雷納托·梅洛尼，自治。

Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I'd like to understand the dynamic of client NII and other provision. Because in your presentation, it seems clear that there is some difficulty in going back to accelerating growth and mass retail, both for SMEs and individuals. You justified that with the cost of risk. Good. Are there other challenges, for example, regaining principality of these clients? And the second part of the question is how important is the change in bank strategy, depending on this acceleration? And will you have to review the plans for next year?

嗨，早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我想了解客戶端 NII 和其他規定的動態。因為在您的演講中，很明顯，無論對於中小企業還是個人來說，回到加速成長和大眾零售都存在一些困難。你用風險成本來證明這一點是合理的。好的。是否有其他挑戰，例如重新獲得這些客戶的主權？問題的第二部分是，銀行策略的改變有多重要，取決於這種加速？您是否需要檢討明年的計劃？

Thank you for the question. But let me clarify. Perhaps I was not clear. We are not decelerating the mass market, neither in SMEs. Let me give you some data. There is a public ranking. Do access it, if you're curious. That's ProNEP, ProNEP ranking. And you will see which bank is ranking first or second in distribution to SMEs. We're talking about companies making less money in the client base. So we have principality. We are leaders in small businesses, and so we're decelerating those. And if you answer that ranking, you will see that the most operations happen with the Bradesco. I don't want to be transparent. I don't want to mention competitors, but Banco de Brazil is fighting for the number one position with us.

謝謝你的提問。但讓我澄清一下。或許是我沒說清楚。我們不會放慢大眾市場的速度，也不會放慢中小企業的速度。讓我給你一些數據。有公開排名。如果您好奇的話，請訪問它。這就是 ProNEP，ProNEP 排名。您將看到哪家銀行在向中小企業的分配方面排名第一或第二。我們談論的是在客戶群中賺得更少錢的公司。所以我們有公國。我們是小型企業的領導者，因此我們正在放慢這些速度。如果您回答該排名，您會發現大多數業務都發生在 Bradesco 上。我不想變得透明。我不想提及競爭對手，但巴西銀行正在與我們爭奪第一的位置。

So we have client principality. We are growing. We are growing with clients with a good rating, with loans that will ensure constant and pre-annual growth. So change the bank helps in our growth strategy because we will deliver a number of better initiatives for our organization. We will make our organization more competitive.

所以我們有客戶至上。我們正在成長。我們與具有良好評級的客戶一起成長，提供的貸款將確保持續的超額成長。因此，改變銀行有助於我們的成長策略，因為我們將為我們的組織提供許多更好的措施。我們將使我們的組織更具競爭力。

One of them is the new segment, the principal segment that we were calling the affluent one. And the credit BU, which is super important for us, with a number of quick wins. And then later, Renato, in the future opportunity, we can explore this in more detail. The SME segments with 122 branches increase into 150 that increased market value, penetration, and quality of risk.

其中之一是新的細分市場，我們稱之為富裕細分市場的主要細分市場。信用業務部門對我們來說非常重要，它有許多快速的成果。然後，雷納托，在未來的機會中，我們可以更詳細地探討這一點。擁有 122 個分支機構的中小企業部門增加到 150 個，從而提高了市場價值、滲透率和風險品質。

Our portfolio management quality improved. You will remember that in the credit business unit, we created a new unit of portfolio management. They have delivered models to us with a prediction of the fold in the middle market with companies that will turn over up to BRL300. So we have very important deliveries in portfolio management, in granting loans to clients in our timeframe for approval of loans in the wholesale bank dropped by 40% for our own. So we have good traction in large corporates, middle market, SMEs, and also individuals.

我們的投資組合管理品質得到提升。您會記得，在信貸業務部門，我們創建了一個新的投資組合管理部門。他們向我們提供了模型，預測中間市場的公司營業額將達到 300 巴西雷亞爾。因此，我們在投資組合管理方面取得了非常重要的成果，在我們向客戶發放貸款的時間範圍內，批發銀行批准的貸款比我們自己的貸款減少了 40%。因此，我們對大型企業、中型市場、中小企業以及個人都有良好的吸引力。

But I want, together with my team, to grant high-quality credit and deliver perennial deliveries. And I don't want to have a good margin and then have a trough, a pick and a trough. And also, cost management is under control. We are reducing the footprint. And we are managing our personnel and administrative expenses, which are very much under control. And our cost to serve is under control for the whole organization. Also in terms of internal processes.

但我希望與我的團隊一起提供高品質的信用並提供常年交付。而且我不想有很好的利潤，然後有一個低谷，一個選秀權和一個低谷。此外，成本管理也受到控制。我們正在減少足跡。我們正在管理我們的人員和行政費用，這些費用都在很大程度上受到控制。我們的服務成本在整個組織中都得到控制。還有內部流程方面。

But another interesting element to mention is that ProCred program was launched, providing collateral for micro-companies, micro-enterprises in October. Very few banks started operating with this. Bradesco was the first one. And you can do it all via our app. So we have good traction, but we are now going to deliver an NII that will peak and then get to a trough.

但另一個值得一提的有趣因素是，10 月啟動了 ProCred 計劃，為微型公司、微型企業提供抵押品。很少銀行開始開展這種業務。布拉德斯科是第一個。您可以透過我們的應用程式完成這一切。因此，我們有良好的牽引力，但我們現在要提供的NII將達到頂峰，然後降至低谷。

And let me add to that, Marcelo. There are two slides in the presentation that Marcelo just made showing the new credit vintages. The first slide shows our origination in mass retail individuals and then mass market for companies. And we show significant growth in both, in Q3 against Q2, even stronger performance in mass market individuals. So we don't see any difficulties in growing these two segments. But we're growing carefully because we're looking at a longer run. We want to continue to grow quarter after quarter.

讓我補充一點，馬塞洛。馬塞洛剛剛製作的簡報中有兩張投影片展示了新的信用年份。第一張投影片顯示了我們起源於大眾零售個人，然後是公司的大眾市場。我們顯示，第三季與第二季相比，這兩個面向都有顯著成長，大眾市場的個人表現甚至更強勁。因此，我們認為發展這兩個細分市場並沒有任何困難。但我們正在謹慎成長，因為我們著眼於更長遠的發展。我們希望繼續逐季成長。

Thank you, Renato.

謝謝你，雷納托。

Yuri Fernandes, JP Morgan.

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通。

Good morning to all. I'd like to have an update in ROE converging to cost of capital. We had that question almost every call. I'd like to get an update from you. Last time this was asked, I think that your answer was that this was going to be a gradual process that it was doing slightly better than expected, but that would be aligned with long-lost provision and then improvement of the top line and NII. But I'd like to focus on the cost of capital because in Brazil we have a higher cost of capital. So my question, for 2026 are we going to see a higher ROE or will the plan be delayed because the ROE is improving but QE doesn't seem to be improving in Brazil. So how to balance these two?

大家早安。我想了解股本回報率與資本成本的最新情況。我們幾乎每次打電話都會問這個問題。我想從你那裡得到最新消息。上次被問到這個問題時，我認為您的回答是，這將是一個漸進的過程，其表現略好於預期，但這將與長期缺失的準備金以及收入和國家資訊基礎設施的改善保持一致。但我想專注於資本成本，因為巴西的資本成本更高。所以我的問題是，到 2026 年，我們是否會看到更高的 ROE，或者該計劃是否會被推遲，因為 ROE 正在改善，但巴西的量化寬鬆似乎沒有改善。那麼如何平衡這兩者呢？

Thank you for the question. You always mentioned that that's our mission and our target, our goal. Regardless of the cost of capital being a little higher or not, we'll pursue it and our expectation is to deliver better returns quarter after quarter and growing absolute results. This is our expectation and growing wood safety. And with the reduction in footprint, we had a reduction in our headcount.

謝謝你的提問。您總是提到這是我們的使命、我們的目標、我們的目標。無論資本成本是否高一點，我們都會追求它，我們的期望是逐季提供更好的回報，並不斷成長絕對業績。這是我們的期望和不斷增長的木材安全。隨著佔地面積的減少，我們的員工人數也減少了。

But we also hired for the credit business unit and for technology, people with greater seniority and we have to pay them four or five times more and that will hit the operating expenses. But still, that's where we are going. We will pursue this balance. And Yuri, what matters is that we pursue this with quality. This gives us some predictability and gives some predictability for the market. Cassiano, do you want to add?

但我們也為信貸業務部門和技術部門聘請了資歷更高的人員，我們必須向他們支付四到五倍的工資，這將影響營運費用。但這仍然是我們要去的地方。我們將追求這種平衡。Yuri，重要的是我們追求品質。這給了我們一些可預測性，也給了市場一些可預測性。卡西亞諾，你要補充嗎？

No, really, I think you said it all. We continue to do strong work in all of the initiatives you mentioned. And we have spoken with Yuri about that. The matter is how much more we want to bring this forward. We're working for it, but we have our internal problems in Brazil. But we have the dynamic of our balance sheet, one of continuity. And this shows that we're very serious about 2025 and in the future to continue to change the bank and the transformation process led by Marcelo and under my responsibility.

不，真的，我想你已經說完了。我們將繼續在您提到的所有舉措中大力開展工作。我們已經與尤里談過此事。問題是我們有多想推動這一點。我們正在為此努力，但我們在巴西遇到了內部問題。但我們的資產負債表具有動態性，具有連續性。這表明我們非常認真地對待 2025 年以及未來繼續改變銀行以及由馬塞洛領導並由我負責的轉型過程。

The outcome of that will be a solid bank as we have always been, more profitable every quarter and with clear consistency in how to serve our clients, how they want so we can get that principality. And improving our competitiveness in all segments, that's very important because that's all the transformation is about. Thank you.

這樣做的結果將是我們一如既往地成為一家穩健的銀行，每個季度的利潤都更高，並且在如何服務我們的客戶以及他們想要的方式方面具有明確的一致性，以便我們能夠獲得這一主權。提高我們在所有領域的競爭力，這非常重要，因為這就是轉型的全部內容。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you, Yuri.

謝謝你，尤里。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔，瑞銀集團。

Hello, everyone. Good morning. My question is about investment in technology. It seems like the bank is investing more in technology to close the gap compared to peers. But how much can this process become easier now with artificial intelligence? How will that help close the gap? And if you do this now, I mean, is it easier to do it now than it would have been a few years ago? And also a follow-up about the Selic basic interest rate you spoke about 13% or around 13% next year. What would be the impact if the basic interest rate really confirms at this level? What would be the impact in a few years?

大家好。早安.我的問題是關於技術投資。該銀行似乎正在加大技術投資，以縮小與同行的差距。但現在有了人工智慧，這個過程可以變得多容易？這將如何幫助縮小差距？如果你現在這樣做，我的意思是，現在比幾年前更容易嗎？還有關於您所說的 Selic 基本利率的後續行動，即 13% 或明年 13% 左右。如果基本利率真的決定在這個水平，會產生什麼影響？幾年後會產生什麼影響？

Well, thank you, Thiago, for participating. Thank you for your question. It's a pleasure to have you with us. About technology, we do not see a technology gap. Our diagnosis shows we have an opportunity to increase significantly our productivity, because we have more third parties than our own employees, and that changes our productivity. We also want to have a more senior team, and then we want to roll out this initiative to the whole organization using our enterprise agility, whose use was more restricted until now.

好吧，蒂亞戈，謝謝你的參與。謝謝你的提問。很高興您能和我們在一起。關於技術，我們沒有看到技術差距。我們的診斷表明，我們有機會顯著提高生產力，因為我們的第三方比我們自己的員工還要多，這改變了我們的生產力。我們也希望擁有更高級的團隊，然後我們希望利用我們的企業敏捷性將這項舉措推廣到整個組織，而到目前為止，企業敏捷性的使用受到更多限制。

So we are investing in line with the large players on the market. Sometimes we press the gas pedal a little bit more, but the fact is that artificial intelligence has been with us for some time now. BIA has evolved. It's now moving into GenAI, but BIA has been with us for quite some time. We have been using artificial intelligence, machine learning to develop models in our business units, but we're using that very strongly also in our pricing efforts, regardless of the value proposition we have in each business unit.

因此，我們正在與市場上的大型參與者保持一致的投資。有時我們會多踩一點油門踏板，但事實是人工智慧已經陪伴我們一段時間了。BIA 已經發展。現在它正在進入 GenAI，但 BIA 已經陪伴我們很長一段時間了。我們一直在使用人工智慧、機器學習在我們的業務部門中開發模型，但我們在定價工作中也非常強烈地使用人工智慧，無論我們在每個業務部門的價值主張如何。

So we do have a lot of use of artificial intelligence, even in pricing, so that we can price in microclusters even at coming down to the client level, and that will support our digital channels, which we call business experience BE. So we continue to work hard on this and also on other fronts. If you think about technology development using GenAI, we are also using that in our daily work, and that will expand even further. However, we want to translate that into a better experience for clients and operating efficiency gains.

因此，我們確實大量使用了人工智慧，甚至在定價方面也是如此，這樣我們就可以在微集群中進行定價，甚至可以深入到客戶層面，這將支援我們的數位管道，我們稱之為業務體驗BE 。因此，我們繼續在這方面以及其他方面努力工作。如果你考慮使用 GenAI 進行技術開發，我們也在日常工作中使用它，而且這種情況還會進一步擴展。然而，我們希望將其轉化為更好的客戶體驗和營運效率提升。

About the interest rate, maybe you'd like to answer. Well, I believe the interest rate curve is still under stress. We'll have to wait and see. However, at first sight, I believe the effect is neutral. I mean, from our point of view and looking at 2025, there will be higher floating gains, but then I will have perhaps a lower result in asset and liability management. So even if it is at this level of 13%, I do not see a great impact. But of course, there will be other consequences. I mean, if we have such a high interest rate, the inflation will be different, and then we will have a different scenario altogether.

關於利率，也許你想回答。嗯，我相信利率曲線仍然面臨壓力。我們得拭目以待。然而，乍一看，我認為效果是中性的。我的意思是，從我們的角度來看，展望2025年，浮動收益將會更高，但資產負債管理的結果可能會更低。所以即使是13%這個水平，我也看不到有很大的影響。但當然，還會有其他後果。我的意思是，如果我們有這麼高的利率，通貨膨脹就會不同，然後我們就會看到完全不同的情況。

Yes, let us wait for the US elections, which will also have an influence on this, on the foreign exchange rate, and other variables on the Brazilian market. Thank you, Thiago, for the question.

是的，讓我們等待美國大選，這也會對巴西市場的外匯匯率和其他變數產生影響。謝謝蒂亞戈的提問。

Thank you, Thiago.

謝謝你，蒂亞戈。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩弗拉。

Thank you, André. Good morning, Noronha. Good morning, Cassiano. Noronha, as I was listening to your presentation, we believe you are focusing on risk-adjusted return and also on the mass market with collateralized credit lines. But if you think about other lines, I mean, how was the result of the testing you did in the last few months? What was the return you had in the vintages that you tried, and then you stepped back, and now you are advancing in collateralized lines?

謝謝你，安德烈。早上好，諾羅尼亞。早安，卡夏諾。Noronha，當我聽你的演講時，我們相信你正在關注風險調整後的回報以及具有抵押信貸額度的大眾市場。但如果你考慮其他線路，我的意思是，你在過去幾個月所做的測試結果如何？你在嘗試過的年份中獲得了多少回報，然後你退縮了，現在你在抵押品線中前進了？

Because if we think about fintech, many of them are providing clean loans without collateral, so can you tell us more about this market where you played or did not play in the last three to six months?

因為如果我們考慮金融科技，他們中的許多人都在提供無抵押的清潔貸款，所以您能告訴我們更多關於您在過去三到六個月內參與或未參與的這個市場的信息嗎？

Thank you, Daniel, for the question. I can tell you that we always look at the risk-adjusted return, even at the wholesale bank. If you talk to any one of our regional managers, they will say, I have a dynamic curve of the risk-adjusted return for every client, and that's omni-channel. The officers can have that information on the mobile phone, on the tablet, and they also have a risk-adjusted return simulator, so you can work on the margin only if you have the right level of risk-adjusted return, because that is the target that our officers have to meet.

謝謝丹尼爾提出的問題。我可以告訴你，我們總是專注於風險調整後的回報，即使是批發銀行。如果你與我們的任何一位區域經理交談，他們會說，我有每個客戶的風險調整回報的動態曲線，而且是全通路的。官員們可以在手機、平板電腦上獲得這些信息，他們還有一個風險調整回報模擬器，所以只有當你有適當水平的風險調整回報時，你才能進行保證金工作，因為那是我們的官員必須達到的目標。

And if we look at small businesses, individuals, and even high net worth individuals, when we do pricing, when we look at the price of risk, when we always consider that in every opportunity we have, in SMEs, we may have an RAR as high as 60%, but when we had clean loans, you could never reach such a high RAR. We were at the lower quartile, however, yes, we do provide clean loans in some selected clusters. Remember, we are a large payroll payer for companies, and so I know our clients cash flow.

如果我們關注小型企業、個人，甚至高淨值個人，當我們進行定價時，當我們考慮風險價格時，當我們始終考慮到在中小企業中我們擁有的每一個機會時，我們可能會有一個 RAR高達60%，但是當我們有乾淨貸款時，你永遠不可能達到這麼高的RAR。我們處於較低的四分之一，但是，是的，我們確實在某些選定的集群中提供清潔貸款。請記住，我們是公司的薪資支付大戶，因此我了解我們客戶的現金流。

We also provide payroll deductible loans, and then you can have other types of relationship that come out of these transactions, so we do have clean loans, but only for very good credit rating clients. And obviously, we always work within a certain range of expected losses compared to the price that is the margin provided by each client. And when we provide clean loans, that is the case.

我們還提供薪資可扣除貸款，然後您可以從這些交易中建立其他類型的關係，所以我們確實有乾淨的貸款，但僅適用於信用評級非常好的客戶。顯然，與每位客戶提供的保證金價格相比，我們總是在一定的預期損失範圍內工作。當我們提供清潔貸款時，情況就是如此。

However, we have to be realistic, Daniel. Individuals of lower income, who had delinquency issues in the past, have they fully recovered? Have they been able to repay all of their liabilities? Do they have a higher risk? I mean, we conduct a battery of tests, we are testing all the time, and I will tell you, Brazil is a blue ocean, there is risk everywhere you look, so you have to take care of your own portfolio.

然而，我們必須現實一點，丹尼爾。過去曾有過拖欠問題的低收入人士現在已經完全康復了嗎？他們有能力償還所有債務嗎？他們的風險更高嗎？我的意思是，我們進行了一系列測試，我們一直在測試，我會告訴你，巴西是一片藍海，你看到的到處都存在風險，所以你必須照顧好自己的投資組合。

Of course, I respect the strategy of other players, but we feel very confident about what we have been doing to deliver results that can be sustainable. We do provide clean loans, however, that cannot hurt our results. I mean, unless you have a specific situation, a very large company, but it is not the case. And thank you for the question, Daniel, and please continue to observe, we work case by case.

當然，我尊重其他參與者的策略，但我們對我們為實現永續成果所做的努力充滿信心。然而，我們確實提供清潔貸款，這不會損害我們的業績。我的意思是，除非你有特定的情況，一家非常大的公司，但事實並非如此。感謝您提出問題，丹尼爾，請繼續觀察，我們會根據具體情況進行處理。

Mario Piery, Bank of America.

馬裡奧·皮里，美國銀行。

Good morning everyone, thank you for the opportunity. I'd like to focus on the insurance group. 45% of the earnings coming from insurance, and we see increased profit in health insurance. In the nine months, it's growing 66% year-on-year. So, Noronha, I'd like to understand, what are the drivers here, and can you maintain those level of growth next year, also in the insurance business?

大家早安，感謝您給我這個機會。我想專注於保險集團。 45%的收入來自保險，我們看到健康保險的利潤增加。在這 9 個月中，年增 66%。那麼，Noronha，我想了解一下，這裡的驅動因素是什麼？

The PNC profit grew 76% quarter-on-quarter. I imagine that this might have been some effect of the state of Rio Grande do Sul and everything that happened there. Perhaps you could explain the PNC phenomenon. I would like to invite our colleague, Ivan, to answer your questions. Ivan?

PNC利潤較上季成長76%。我想這可能是南里奧格蘭德州以及那裡發生的一切的影響。也許你可以解釋 PNC 現象。我想邀請我們的同事伊凡來回答你的問題。伊万？

Thank you, Marcelo. I'd like to thank Mario with Bank of America for the question. So here's your answer. The issue is group growth, if you work at the line items, it happened in all of the revenue streams of companies, products and segments, savings, bonds, health, pension, growing very in a robust way. And PNC, as you well observed. In the combined ratios, we can see a substantial improvement in this quarter in all line items, in all companies, in terms of the claims ratio. Of course, that gives us more robust results as well as we improve the operational part of the business.

謝謝你，馬塞洛。我要感謝美國銀行的馬裡奧提出的問題。這就是你的答案。問題在於集團的成長，如果你研究具體項目，你會發現公司、產品和細分市場、儲蓄、債券、健康、退休金的所有收入流都出現了這種情況，並且成長非常強勁。還有 PNC，正如您所觀察到的。在綜合比率中，我們可以看到本季所有公司、所有專案的索賠率均大幅改善。當然，這為我們帶來了更強勁的業績，並改善了業務的營運部分。

And that's why Marcelo mentioned that our results had two-thirds coming from the operational part and one-third from the financial part. Just your question about health issues, we started adopting some practices over the year that started ripping the fruits now in Q3, but these are things that have been implemented since the start of the year, with some adjustments made regarding some excessive ease of the health plans and also tackling frauds.

這就是為什麼馬塞洛提到我們的業績三分之二來自營運部分，三分之一來自財​​務部分。只是你關於健康問題的問題，我們在這一年開始採取一些做法，現在在第三季度開始收穫成果，但這些都是從今年年初開始實施的，針對一些過度放鬆的健康問題進行了一些調整計劃並打擊詐欺行為。

And of course, that led to a decrease in claims ratio for veterans with a better operating result. Prospectively, to answer your question, we are comfortable, we'll continue to do this work, which I insist, we started at the beginning of the year and the results are only showing now, but this improvement should continue in the next quarter.

當然，這導致了經營業績更好的退伍軍人的索賠率下降。展望未來，回答你的問題，我們感到很舒服，我們將繼續做這項工作，我堅持認為，我們從今年年初開始，結果現在才顯現出來，但這種改進應該會在下個季度繼續下去。

Regarding PNC, that's a business that has been growing with an ROE which is extremely solid, showing the robustness of the business and of the transactions. In terms of auto assurances and homeowners insurance, and the growth, you probably saw this. We have to compare Q3 to Q2, and Q3 and Q2 show events related to the south of Brazil. Those events were observed in the balance sheet of Q2 with comfort.

至於 PNC，該業務一直在成長，淨資產收益率非常穩定，顯示出業務和交易的穩健性。在汽車保險和房屋保險以及成長方面，您可能已經看到了這一點。我們必須將第三季和第二季進行比較，第三季和第二季顯示與巴西南部相關的事件。這些事件在第二季的資產負債表中可以輕鬆觀察到。

And now in Q3, without these events in the south, we were able to grow the PNC business with more comfort, lower claims ratio and with a commercialization and administrative ratios which were extremely positive. This is how we can explain those positive results for both of the companies that you mentioned.

現在在第三季度，在南方沒有這些事件的情況下，我們能夠以更舒適、更低的索賠率以及非常積極的商業化和管理比率來發展 PNC 業務。這就是我們如何解釋您提到的兩家公司的積極成果。

Excellent, Mario. Thank you for the question. I can end saying that we have good traction in all segments of clients and distribution of the bank is very strong also for the insurance business. Thank you.

太棒了，馬裡奧。謝謝你的提問。最後我可以說，我們在所有客戶群中都具有良好的吸引力，而且銀行的保險業務分佈也非常強大。謝謝。

Thank you, Mario. Thank you, Ivan.

謝謝你，馬裡奧。謝謝你，伊凡。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú Unibanco.

佩德羅·勒杜克 (Pedro Leduc)，義大利聯合銀行。

Good morning. Thank you for taking my question. I want to know about -- and I guess that the years unfolding as planned in February, the first stage of ROE recovery came from last provision. You got that and then growing the portfolio, you're getting there too. And the next would be NII and that's starting. And finally SG&A in the future. So I'd like to get your take on this. If this sequence to improve ROE, first loan loss provision, then portfolio, then NII, if this is still valid, now that you have the new vintages, you have pricing and you have funding and gross NII can increase in the next 12 months. So that's what I would like to know.

早安.謝謝你回答我的問題。我想知道——而且我猜想，在二月按計劃展開的幾年中，淨資產回報率復甦的第一階段來自於最後一項規定。你明白了這一點，然後擴大投資組合，你也能實現這個目標。下一個是 NII，這就是開始。最後是未來的SG&A。所以我想聽聽你對此的看法。如果按照這個順序來提高ROE，首先是貸款損失撥備，然後是投資組合，然後是NII，如果這仍然有效，那麼既然你有了新的年份，你就有了定價，你有資金，總NII可以在未來12 個月內增加。這就是我想知道的。

Thank you for the question and for participating in the call. I believe so. I think that we can continue in the trend that you mentioned and that you mentioned so well. NII will grow depending on the scenario that we mentioned, the portfolio mix. What you can promise? I don't like to promise, I like to deliver. I haven't seen this, it ran over. But what we have in mind is if we deliver an NII which is stable, let's look about 8%, 9%, doesn't matter high or low. If we deliver this with an adequate cost of provision, this is what we need to do. Because that's our NII net of provisions and that's why we use the risk adjusted return.

感謝您提出問題並參與通話。我相信是這樣。我認為我們可以繼續你提到的並且你提到得很好的趨勢。NII 的成長取決於我們提到的場景，即投資組合。你能承諾什麼？我不喜歡承諾，我喜歡兌現。我沒看過，就跑過去了。但我們的想法是，如果我們提供穩定的NII，我們看看8%、9%左右，無論高低。如果我們以足夠的供應成本來實現這一點，這就是我們需要做的。因為這是我們扣除撥備後的 NII 淨值，這就是我們使用風險調整報酬的原因。

We'll continue to prove NII. The NII behavior will depend on the mix, because if I can originate movie role deductible loans, the INSS deductible loan, well it lost share but it is good. It gives me RAR for our channels. For external production, that commercialization cost is more complicated. If I can produce more, originate more, I will. This will bring us somewhat lower NIA than other lines but it will bring us more NII and will require very little provision. So this is the promise that we continue to have and our expectation is to grow our NII over time and deliver a more focused and ROE for the bank.

我們將繼續證明NII。NII 行為將取決於組合，因為如果我可以發起電影角色可抵扣貸款、INSS 可抵扣貸款，那麼它會失去份額，但這是好的。它為我提供了我們頻道的 RAR。對於外部生產，商業化成本更加複雜。如果我能生產更多、創造更多，我會的。與其他線路相比，這將為我們帶來較低的NIA，但它將為我們帶來更多的NII，並且只需要很少的準備金。因此，這是我們繼續做出的承諾，我們的期望是隨著時間的推移增加我們的 NII，並為銀行提供更專注的 ROE。

We should not forget the liabilities in spite of this NII that we've been working with. We do work not only with SMEs, with our cash tools and also now with our principal segment because we want to have greater principality in the high net worth individuals. So it's a mix of things. And we'll have the right trend and this will allow us to take the next stride along 2025.

儘管我們一直在與 NII 合作，但我們不應該忘記責任。我們不僅透過我們的現金工具與中小企業合作，現在還與我們的主要細分市場合作，因為我們希望在高淨值人士中擁有更大的主導權。所以這是一個混合的事情。我們將擁有正確的趨勢，這將使我們能夠在 2025 年邁出下一步。

Thank you for the question, Pedro.

謝謝你的提問，佩德羅。

Now may I ask about the L&M of the current portfolio? Do you have more hedging especially for the pre-fixed or the non-variable products?

現在我可以問一下目前投資組合的L&M嗎？你們是否有更多的對沖，特別是對於預先固定的或非可變的產品？

Well, there is not a big change but I believe it is more neutral. Now, when I look at the portfolio and look at the perspective curve compared to our funding in our own capital, today it is more neutral.

嗯，沒有什麼大的變化，但我相信它更中性。現在，當我查看投資組合併查看與我們自有資本的融資相比的透視曲線時，今天它更加中性。

No. We do not have more hedging but we're monitoring the risk. If the rates go up, you have an opportunity to have gains on the liability side, but when you have volatility on the market, you also have opportunities in the trading portfolio and also in other business. So, our policy of not doing hedging continues. However, we have also reduced the risk using other levers.

不。我們沒有更多的對沖，但我們正在監控風險。如果利率上升，您有機會在負債方面獲得收益，但當市場波動時，您在交易投資組合和其他業務中也有機會。因此，我們不進行對沖的政策仍在繼續。然而，我們也使用其他槓桿來降低風險。

Eduardo Nishio, Genial.

愛德華多·西尾，和藹可親。

Hello. Good morning. Thanks for this opportunity. Good morning, Noronha, Andre, Cassiano. I'd like to go back to the question about the transformation plan. You have conducted a number of changes. I'd like to hear from you about where you stand in the new compensation plan, both for executives and also at the branch level. I'd like to understand the number of branches. If that will continue to change, I think you had 5,300 branches in 2016 and now 2,300. So, you've had a dramatic reduction in the number of branches.

你好。早安.感謝這個機會。早安，諾隆尼亞、安德烈、卡西亞諾。我想回到關於轉型計劃的問題。你已經進行了一些改變。我想聽聽您對新薪酬計畫的看法，無論是針對高階主管還是在分行層級。我想了解分公司的數量。如果這種情況繼續發生變化，我認為 2016 年你們有 5,300 個分支機構，現在有 2,300 個。因此，分支數量大幅減少。

Also about digital banking, if you could provide an update about the future and also the rollout of new platforms. You have just rolled out a platform for individuals. And what are your plans for the next quarters? Now, my second question is about delinquency and loan loss provisions. The delinquency seems to be quite well behaved, coming down quarter after quarter. But do you expect to go back at the same level before the pandemic? Will that happen? Now that we see a different situation in terms of credit?

還有關於數位銀行，您能否提供有關未來的最新情況以及新平台的推出。您剛剛推出了一個針對個人的平台。您接下來幾季的計畫是什麼？現在，我的第二個問題是關於拖欠和貸款損失準備金。拖欠率似乎表現良好，逐季下降。但您預計會回到大流行之前的水平嗎？會發生這種情況嗎？現在我們在信用方面看到了不同的情況？

Look, Nishio, about loan loss provisions, as I said, we are attracting better ratings, a safer mix, and so we will continue to see delinquency coming down. And this is something we believe we will be able to control. Unless, I mean, we have a surprise coming from large corporations, which we don't really expect. So, I believe it may go back to the previous levels. Now, about compensation, this is the first six months when our compensation is based on individual evaluation.

西尾，關於貸款損失準備金，正如我所說，我們正在吸引更好的評級、更安全的組合，因此我們將繼續看到拖欠率下降。我們相信我們能夠控制這一點。我的意思是，除非大公司帶給我們驚喜，而這正是我們並不真正期望的。所以，我相信它可能會回到以前的水平。現在，關於薪酬，這是我們的薪酬基於個人評估的前六個月。

Of course, we have different waves. The level of responsibility of each executive is considered. All client segments are receiving incentives depending on what they can deliver. This is what we call extrinsic motivation, because we also have the engagement of our teams and our professionals.

當然，我們有不同的波浪。考慮每位高階主管的責任等級。所有客戶群都會根據他們所能提供的服務而獲得獎勵。這就是我們所說的外在動機，因為我們還有團隊和專業人員的參與。

And we will see that at the end. Our compensation plan at all levels, both at the branches and here for executives. Each person is being evaluated according to the deliveries. I will now hand it over to Andre and Cassiano, because they will speak about our footprint.

我們將在最後看到這一點。我們的各級薪酬計劃，包括分公司和高階主管。每個人都根據交付情況進行評估。我現在將其交給安德烈和卡西亞諾，因為他們會談論我們的足跡。

Now, about digital banking, I can come back to provide an answer to you, because we have been working with Tulio. Tulio has just joined the company. He came from the market. He will be responsible for a few products and the digital mass segment. So, we have been working. We will soon be able to provide more information.

現在，關於數位銀行，我可以回來給你答案，因為我們一直在和Tulio合作。圖裡奧剛加入公司。他來自市場。他將負責一些產品和數位大眾業務。所以，我們一直在努力。我們很快就能提供更多資訊。

Now, I will begin talking about our branches. Oh, yes, I'd like to add, you spoke about the number of branches, but we don't really look at branches alone. We look also at our service centers, because these are branches. They are business units. I mean, although they may have a different size, they're still business units.

現在，我將開始談論我們的分支機構。哦，是的，我想補充一點，你談到了分支機構的數量，但我們並不僅僅只關注分支機構。我們也關注我們的服務中心，因為這些是分支機構。他們是業務單位。我的意思是，儘管它們的規模可能不同，但它們仍然是業務部門。

Yes, we are now at the level of 5,000 points of sale or points of service. We did see an evolution in the cost to serve. 1,041 points of sale is a big number, but we have not only a qualitative and quantitative analysis, but we also look at the behavior of clients. We also have our ears at the branch level to look at the behavior of clients to see if we have any kind of attrition and how our Bradesco Espresso is serving clients in each region. We analyze all of these points.

是的，我們現在擁有 5,000 個銷售點或服務點。我們確實看到了服務成本的演變。 1,041個銷售點是一個很大的數字，但我們不僅進行定性和定量分析，而且還關注客戶的行為。我們也在分行層級密切關注客戶的行為，看看是否有任何人員流失，以及我們的 Bradesco Espresso 如何為每個地區的客戶提供服務。我們分析所有這些點。

Actually, for us to participate in the INSS auction, we have to provide this data. And we've been testing new models. Bradesco Espresso has gained principality. Marcelo spoke about how the platforms of Bradesco Espresso have improved.

實際上，我們要參與INSS拍賣，就必須提供這些數據。我們一直在測試新模型。Bradesco Espresso 已經獲得了統治地位。馬塞洛談到了 Bradesco Espresso 平台的改進。

So that's part of the vertical channel of client service, even non-account holders. So we continue to monitor, and we still have adjustments to make to improve our cost to serve in the mass market. So I believe we are in a comfortable position to attract the best profitability for the mass market. Would you like to speak about the loan loss provision?

因此，這是客戶服務垂直管道的一部分，甚至是非帳戶持有人。因此，我們繼續監控，並且仍然需要進行調整，以提高我們在大眾市場的服務成本。因此，我相信我們處於有利位置，可以為大眾市場吸引最佳獲利能力。您想談談貸款損失準備金嗎？

Well, when we look at our points of sale, we are advancing at a quick speed. We have actually anticipated future adjustments in 2024 and 2025. We have temporary expenses to conduct the adjustment. However, this will not be present in our operating expenses. So the impact will be seen as of 2026, right? We are still in a vicious circle because the virtuous circle will begin in 2026. Right, when we will have our efficiency level closer to the target of 40%.

嗯，當我們看看我們的銷售點時，我們正在快速前進。我們實際上預計了 2024 年和 2025 年的未來調整。我們有臨時費用來進行調整。但是，這不會出現在我們的營運費用中。那麼到 2026 年就會看到影響，對嗎？我們仍然處於惡性循環中，因為良性循環將於 2026 年開始。是的，什麼時候我們的效率水準會更接近 40% 的目標。

But it's interesting to say that our plan is being executed. I mean, do we have perfect numbers? Not yet, but we will see a great impact of 2026. Now, about loan loss provisions, we're always based on credit risk. As Marcelo said, we now have a vintage of higher quality, so we have lower needs for loan loss provisions. Every time we have a new portfolio, we calculate a new loan loss provision. The credit risk has come down to 3% now, which is very close to what we consider normal. It may even go up slightly, but still controlled. So we see a portfolio expansion with controlled credit risk so that we will have a better NII. And that is what truly moves the needle at the bottom line. And this is what Marcelo said. Thank you, Nishio, for your questions.

但有趣的是，我們的計劃正在執行。我的意思是，我們有完美的數字嗎？目前還沒有，但我們將在 2026 年看到巨大的影響。現在，關於貸款損失準備金，我們始終基於信用風險。正如馬塞洛所說，我們現在擁有更高品質的年份，因此我們對貸款損失撥備的需求較低。每當我們有一個新的投資組合時，我們都會計算新的貸款損失準備。目前信用風險已降至3%，非常接近我們認為的正常水準。甚至可能會小幅上漲，但仍受到控制。因此，我們看到在信用風險可控的情況下進行投資組合擴張，以便我們擁有更好的NII。這才是真正推動獲利的因素。這就是馬塞洛所說的。謝謝西尾的提問。

Turning to English.

轉向英語。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

蒂托·拉巴塔，高盛。

Okay. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for the call and taking my question. I have two brief questions, hopefully, if I can. Just first on your deposit growth, we saw a nice pickup on your demand deposits, but savings and time were down a bit on the quarter and still haven't really grown much on a year-over-year basis. Just understand the drivers of the deposit growth and the demand savings and time. Is competition impacting that at all or what's the driver behind that and the somewhat muted growth overall?

好的。大家早安。感謝您的來電並回答我的問題。如果可以的話，我有兩個簡短的問題。首先，關於存款成長，我們看到活期存款大幅回升，但儲蓄和時間在本季度略有下降，而且同比仍然沒有真正增長太多。只需了解存款成長的驅動因素以及需求儲蓄和時間即可。競爭是否會影響這一點，或者背後的驅動因素是什麼以及整體成長有些乏力？

And then the second question was on your fee income because we saw good growth in asset management up 11% on the quarter, even though the investment funds and managed portfolios didn't grow as fast. And also the loan fees were up 9% on the quarter. Loan growth was good, but didn't grow that fast. So just understand the drivers of those two fee income fines if you can? Thank you.

第二個問題是關於您的費用收入，因為我們看到資產管理在本季成長了 11%，儘管投資基金和管理的投資組合成長速度不那麼快。本季貸款費用也上漲了 9%。貸款成長良好，但成長速度不那麼快。那麼，如果可以的話，只要了解這兩項費用收入罰款的驅動因素就可以了？謝謝。

Now, Andrea, Tito was asking about deposits, demand deposits. Yes, it has grown, but we can look at it in different combinations because with some clients we even pay because it's good for us to have these demand deposits. So this number is growing. We can provide further information to you after the call. We can provide more details on this, but we are growing in demand deposit. We have a good level of traction in terms of our relationship with these clients. Now savings accounts, I mean, it is only natural. This is something very Brazilian and it is in fact a challenge for the real estate market.

現在，安德里亞，蒂托正在詢問存款，活期存款。是的，它已經成長了，但我們可以以不同的組合來看待它，因為對於某些客戶，我們甚至付款，因為擁有這些活期存款對我們有好處。所以這個數字正在成長。我們可以在通話後向您提供更多資訊。我們可以提供更多細節，但我們的活期存款正在成長。我們與這些客戶的關係具有良好的吸引力。我的意思是，現在儲蓄帳戶是很自然的。這是非常巴西化的事情，實際上對房地產市場來說是一個挑戰。

So, but we feel very comfortable vis-à-vis the competition. We have shown we are competitive, otherwise we would not be growing on these lines. But yes, we have things coming out of one line and into another line, but we are looking at all of this, trying to do better every day, delivering a non-friction experience to clients, be them micro companies, high net worth individuals, different clients using different channels. We're always looking at providing the best possible experience. And let me open for you to add.

所以，但我們對競爭對手感到非常自在。我們已經證明了我們的競爭力，否則我們不會在這些方面成長。但是，是的，我們有一些東西從一條線進入另一條線，但我們正在關注所有這一切，努力每天做得更好，為客戶提供無摩擦的體驗，無論是微型公司還是高淨值個人，不同的客戶使用不同的管道。我們始終致力於提供盡可能最佳的體驗。讓我打開供您補充。

Yes, if I could add, Marcelo, I think it is important to say, and I mean, even Tito spoke about competition. Demand deposit and savings account, you always have market competition. That's clear. I mean, looking for attracting clients using FGC and brokerage firms and investment companies are also doing that. And there's a high demand for CDB, certificates of deposit. But I can talk to you, Tito, about our demand deposits. So demand deposits and savings account, although they are growing slightly, that is always connected to the principality of the relationship.

是的，如果我可以補充的話，馬塞洛，我認為這很重要，我的意思是，甚至蒂託也談到了競爭。活期存款和儲蓄帳戶，讓您隨時擁有市場競爭。很清楚。我的意思是，尋找使用 FGC 吸引客戶的經紀公司和投資公司也在這樣做。對國開行和存款證的需求很高。但蒂托，我可以和你談談我們的活期存款。所以活期存款和儲蓄帳戶雖然略有成長，但始終是與公國有連結的關係。

When we open an account, we continue to grow 1.8 million accounts, even though we have adjusted our footprint. And the other element is improving our cash, the insertion, the introduction of our cash management. We now have client centricity in all of these lines. So we have a positive number in demand deposit, and we also have new transactions from FGC. So we see this migration and a higher demand for certificates of deposit. A Bram has received a number of awards as a wealth manager. Bram has received a number of awards, and $55 billion in assets under management. That's also an important number.

當我們開設帳戶時，我們會繼續增加 180 萬個帳戶，儘管我們已經調整了我們的足跡。另一個因素是改善我們的現金、插入、引進我們的現金管理。現在，我們在所有這些領域都以客戶為中心。因此，我們的活期存款為正數，且 FGC 也有新的交易。因此，我們看到了這種遷移以及對存款證的更高需求。身為財富管理者，布拉姆曾獲得多項獎項。Bram 榮獲多項獎項，管理資產達 550 億美元。這也是一個重要的數字。

Yes, about asset management, we said that we had a $33 billion increase in AUM, now $55 billion, and now we have a performance fee because we had a great performance in some of our funds, so assets under management have been growing quarter after quarter. That's helping us a lot. In terms of loans and services, that is something, I mean, in a number of lines, we may have a lower spread in a few credit lines, but we are having more cross-selling, and we have developed skills to work with that. That's why, when you look at the top line, you are adding the revenues coming from insurance, fee and commissions, and also NII.

Yes, about asset management, we said that we had a $33 billion increase in AUM, now $55 billion, and now we have a performance fee because we had a great performance in some of our funds, so assets under management have been growing quarter after四分之一.這對我們有很大幫助。就貸款和服務而言，我的意思是，在許多信貸額度中，我們可能在一些信貸額度中具有較低的利差，但我們有更多的交叉銷售，並且我們已經開發了與之合作的技能。這就是為什麼當你查看頂線時，你會添加來自保險、費用和佣金以及 NII 的收入。

And if you look at company clients, we charge fees, we have a monthly fee. And also, he asked about the capital market. You know that variable income, the equity market is at a standstill right now in Brazil, and that's a pity for the market. However, fixed income is certainly growing. That is why we have more colleagues. We've expended the team because we see a lot of opportunity here, and we are adding value. We believe we will grow this quarter and also next year. This is the expectation we have in the investment bank.

如果你看看公司客戶，我們會收取費用，我們有月費。他也詢問了資本市場的情況。你知道，巴西的可變收入、股市目前處於停滯狀態，這對市場來說是個遺憾。然而，固定收益確實在成長。這就是為什麼我們有更多的同事。我們擴充了團隊，因為我們在這裡看到了很多機會，而且我們正在增加價值。我們相信本季和明年我們都會成長。這是我們對投行的期望。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

卡洛斯·戈麥斯·洛佩茲，匯豐銀行。

Hello.

你好。

Hi, Carlos. How are you?

嗨，卡洛斯。你好嗎？

Very well, thank you. So two questions on other segments. You mentioned the investments that you are doing in credit cards. You mentioned the investments that you are doing with ELO, and a lot of investment in debit cards. Does it make sense to continue to push the debit cards when perhaps they're going to be replaced by PICS? How do you see that market evolving? And the second would be on your new segment, principal, how does it relate with Prime? Thank you.

很好，謝謝。關於其他部分的兩個問題。您提到了您在信用卡方面進行的投資。您提到了您對 ELO 的投資，以及對借記卡的大量投資。當借記卡可能會被 PICS 取代時，繼續推廣借記卡是否有意義？您如何看待該市場的發展？第二個問題是關於您的新細分市場，校長，它與 Prime 有何關係？謝謝。

Okay, thank you. Cassiano, you can speak about this dynamic of debit cards because there's an initiative in the change bank regarding that.

好的，謝謝。卡西亞諾，您可以談論借記卡的這種動態，因為找零銀行對此有一項倡議。

Yes, Carlos, thank you for the question. We have been working exactly to understand this dynamic of debit cards, vis-à-vis PICS. And the trend is that we'll work more and more with one channel, more digital, with less plastic. And this is part of these news that Marcelo mentioned. We will be communicating particularly in the mass market. But the investments are made to clearly maintain our status quo. But we have been doing a lot of work so that we won't have any cannibalization, and so that we can have a direct, effective digital channel for our clients with less plastic.

是的，卡洛斯，謝謝你的提問。我們一直在努力了解借記卡相對於 PICS 的動態。趨勢是我們將越來越多地使用單一管道進行工作，更加數位化，使用更少的塑膠。這是馬塞洛提到的這些新聞的一部分。我們將特別在大眾市場進行溝通。但這些投資顯然是為了維持我們的現狀。但我們一直在做大量的工作，這樣我們就不會出現任何蠶食，這樣我們就可以用更少的塑膠為我們的客戶提供一個直接、有效的數位管道。

But Carlos, let me say something. This cannibalization by PICS is natural, but the volume captured through debit cards is still significant. We see this in the bank, in the market, and we see that at ELO. So to us, this is an economically better business. Now, with the interchange being fixed and with this obvious cannibalization, it does make sense to send out plastic, as Cassiano mentioned. But they can use virtual cards. That's what we're working with. Virtual cards to be distributed to clients.

但是卡洛斯，讓我說幾句話。PICS 的這種蠶食是很自然的，但透過金融卡獲得的數量仍然很大。我們在銀行、市場和 ELO 都看到了這一點。所以對我們來說，這是一項經濟上更好的業務。現在，隨著立體交叉的修復以及這種明顯的蠶食現象，正如卡西亞諾所提到的那樣，發送塑膠確實有意義。但他們可以使用虛擬卡。這就是我們正在合作的。將分發給客戶的虛擬卡。

So as long as we can maintain that -- as long as clients want to use them, fine. And of course, we'll be prepared for a natural evolution of that regard with PICS and debit cards. Now, the news segment compared to Prime, as you mentioned, we're also working primarily with the clients because of the other. It's not like we're opening a new market front to gain new clients. Of course, new clients are always welcome. They want to open checking accounts with us. That's great. We are inviting our own clients, but as of January, Carlos, you were invited to visit our new business office.

因此，只要我們能夠保持這一點——只要客戶想要使用它們，就可以了。當然，我們將為 PICS 和借記卡的自然演變做好準備。現在，與 Prime 相比，新聞部分，正如您所提到的，我們也主要與客戶合作，因為另一個。我們並不是想要開闢新的市場來贏得新客戶。當然，我們始終歡迎新客戶。他們想在我們這裡開設支票帳戶。那太棒了。我們正在邀請我們自己的客戶，但從一月開始，卡洛斯，您被邀請參觀我們的新業務辦公室。

And of course, new clients will be very, very welcome. But we already have the clients. They are with Prime. They're being worked on. And the managers will be sitting side by side, so clients will have no discontinuity when they migrate to the new affluent segment. And we have been working with a remodeling. And we're working on the value proposition of Prime.

當然，新客戶將會受到非常非常歡迎。但我們已經有了客戶。他們和Prime在一起。他們正在處理中。經理們將並排坐著，因此當客戶遷移到新的富裕階層時，他們不會出現中斷。我們一直在進行改造。我們正在研究 Prime 的價值主張。

That means working with different account loads for the managers of Prime and with a much more objective value proposition for also the Prime clients. Clients want to have self-service, but they still want to have contact with their manager, their investment advisors, our colleague mentioned in the video. So it all speaks together. They are with this new segment, but we're also working to deliver an even better value proposition to our individual clients.

這意味著為 Prime 經理處理不同的帳戶負載，並為 Prime 客戶提供更客觀的價值主張。我們的同事在影片中提到，客戶希望獲得自助服務，但他們仍然希望與他們的經理、投資顧問保持聯繫。所以這一切都在一起說話。他們參與了這個新的細分市場，但我們也在努力為我們的個人客戶提供更好的價值主張。

And let me add to that, Marcelo, because I think that was also asked. The new segment is above the Prime. It's superior quartile, 300,000 investments up to BRL10 million. It is between Prime and Private. It is a qualified high net worth individuals. And it is to maintain both? Yes, we'll maintain both. Prime for a lower category up to BRL25, mass market, and then Prime, Principal and Private. That's all for individuals.

馬塞洛，讓我補充一下，因為我認為這也被問到了。新段位於 Prime 之上。它是上四分位數，投資額為 30 萬美元，最高可達 1,000 萬雷亞爾。它介於 Prime 和 Private 之間。是合格的高淨值人士。而且是維持兩者？是的，我們將同時維護兩者。Prime 為最高 25 巴西雷亞爾的較低類別、大眾市場，然後是 Prime、Principal 和 Private。這都是針對個人的。

Bernardo Guttmann, XP.

貝爾納多·古特曼，XP。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. I have one specific question about the behavior of the agribusiness portfolio. Looking at the rural portfolio, there's a relevant delta between a growth of rural loans for individuals, which posted strong growth of 16% quarter-on-quarter against a reduction in loans from companies. What is the strategy of the bank for this segment, also considering this slightly more challenging scenario with delinquency in the sector?

大家早安。謝謝你回答我的問題。我有一個關於農業綜合企業投資組合行為的具體問題。從農村貸款組合來看，農村個人貸款的成長與企業貸款的減少之間存在相關的差異，個人貸款較上季強勁成長16%。考慮到該行業存在拖欠問題，銀行對該領域的策略是什麼？

Thank you, Bernardo. Well, actually, this was the only company's portfolio that showed a drop quarter on quarter, because we had some settlements and some companies closing down. Bigger companies that went to the capital market, given the offering with good custody. And since we have a good penetration in individuals and they're kind of mixed with legal companies in agribusiness, so we have a lot of collateralized business with these groups. So, 3% growth for rural individuals, but for the companies that were linked to bigger companies that accessed the capital market, because they had an attractive cost.

謝謝你，貝爾納多。嗯，實際上，這是唯一一家季度環比下降的公司投資組合，因為我們有一些和解，一些公司倒閉。由於發行受到良好的託管，進入資本市場的規模較大的公司。由於我們對個人有很好的滲透力，而且他們與農業綜合企業的合法公司混合在一起，所以我們與這些團體有很多抵押業務。因此，農村個人的成長率為 3%，但對於那些與進入資本市場的大公司有聯繫的公司來說，因為它們的成本很有吸引力。

But we stand strong in that sector. We have our distribution across the agribusiness belt of Brazil, and we have our support team, marine force, we have agronomists for the different segments. We have people well positioned for this, and we're also moving in some news about that. This business we have with John Deere is something we want to close this year, so we're starting next year full steam with them. So, that's kind of the phenomenon that explains the difference between the two portfolios, but we also have a very good quality of risk.

但我們在該領域表現強勁。我們的分佈遍佈巴西的農業綜合企業帶，我們有我們的支援團隊、海軍陸戰隊，我們有不同領域的農藝師。我們有專門的人員來處理這件事，我們也正在發布一些相關的新聞。我們希望在今年結束與約翰迪爾的這項業務，因此我們明年將全力與他們合作。因此，這種現象解釋了兩個投資組合之間的差異，但我們也有非常好的風險品質。

Our delinquency rate in the agribusiness portfolio is absolutely stable. Thank you, Bernardo.

我們的農業綜合企業投資組合的拖欠率絕對穩定。謝謝你，貝爾納多。

Henrique Navarro, Santander.

恩里克·納瓦羅，桑坦德銀行。

Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Now, I'm sorry, I'd like to go back to a topic that has created some more noise in the interactions I've had. Not only it was very good to hear from you that maybe we should not look at why NII and sheer growth, but maybe look at an NII net of provisions. When you look at this number, 27%, it would be fine. So, my question is about the future. You have already shed light about the fourth quarter. You said you will continue to have accelerated growth, but what about 2027? You will look at client NII net of provisions, right?

謝謝。感謝您給我這個機會。現在，我很抱歉，我想回到一個在我的互動中產生更多噪音的話題。很高興聽到您的來信，也許我們不應該考慮為什麼NII 和純粹的增長，而應該考慮NII 淨準備金。你看看這個數字，27%，就可以了。所以，我的問題是關於未來的。您已經透露了第四季度的情況。你說會繼續加速成長，但2027年呢？您會查看客戶端 NII 的規定，對嗎？

And looking at 2025, I know the guidance will come only closer to year end, but how much growth is based on risk of recovery market share? Market share that has always been yours in terms of principality, continue to have your previous share of wallet, and how much of that depends on gaining market share in the competition with other players, just so that we have an idea about 2025.

展望 2025 年，我知道指導意見只會在接近年底時出現，但有多少成長是基於市佔率恢復風險的？就公權而言一直是你的市場份額，繼續擁有你以前的錢包份額，其中有多少取決於與其他玩家的競爭中獲得市場份額，這樣我們對2025年就有一個想法。

Thank you, Navarro, for the question, and thank you for your comments. Thanks for being with us. Navarro, I will tell you that I feel extremely confident. We're growing client base and mass individuals, our high net worth individuals. I mean, we are growing. We already have huge base, but we are growing in the Prime segment. Look at the private onshore. We have also been gaining market share here. Our value proposition has become increasingly more robust, and we now have the new segment, the principal between Prime and Private. So, we have a great penetration in all of these segments.

謝謝納瓦羅的提問，也謝謝您的評論。感謝您與我們同在。納瓦羅，我告訴你，我非常有信心。我們的客戶群和大眾個人、我們的高淨值個人正在不斷成長。我的意思是，我們正在成長。我們已經擁有龐大的基礎，但我們正在 Prime 細分市場不斷成長。看看私人陸上。我們在這裡也一直在獲得市場份額。我們的價值主張變得越來越強大，現在我們有了新的細分市場，也就是 Prime 和 Private 之間的主體。因此，我們在所有這些細分市場中都有很大的滲透力​​。

I believe that there will be a natural principality in line with our fair market share. If we did not have that, we would not have such a high level of traction. I mean, our portfolios are growing, and the portfolios that we want to see growing, delivering what we want to deliver to clients. We are growing in fee and commission income. I showed you how our credit card holders are transactors, and this segment of transactors is growing. So, we want to gain market share. We have gained a little bit, but not much.

我相信，一定會有一個與我們公平的市佔率一致的自然公國。如果我們沒有這一點，我們就不會有如此高的吸引力。我的意思是，我們的投資組合正在成長，我們希望看到的投資組合不斷成長，為客戶提供我們想要的服務。我們的費用和佣金收入正在成長。我向您展示了我們的信用卡持有者如何成為交易者，而這部分交易者正在不斷增長。因此，我們希望獲得市場份額。我們有一點收穫，但收穫不多。

I mean, we gained share in this quarter, and we will certainly be well positioned. This is our expectation. But with the right portfolio, also in insurance, I believe we have great traction. We have been reviewing our footprint and growing the client base. Of course, many of these new clients are payroll-deductible law and clients, but we also do cross-selling with these clients. So we see that we have a great penetration in the client base, and with our fair share, we have everything needed for 2025 to be even better than 2024. As I said, we have a lot of traction. That's why I feel so confident in all client segments and verticals.

我的意思是，我們在本季度獲得了份額，而且我們肯定會處於有利地位。這是我們的期望。但只要有正確的投資組合，包括保險領域，我相信我們會有很大的吸引力。我們一直在審查我們的足跡並擴大客戶群。當然，這些新客戶中有許多是工資扣除法和客戶，但我們也與這些客戶進行交叉銷售。因此，我們看到我們在客戶群中擁有很大的滲透率，並且憑藉我們的公平份額，我們擁有 2025 年甚至比 2024 年更好所需的一切。正如我所說，我們有很大的吸引力。這就是為什麼我對所有客戶群和垂直領域充滿信心。

I mean, when we have monoline, for example, auto loans, but if you look at heavy vehicle loans, trucks and heavy vehicles, we have a very significant share, which we will further accelerate now with our business with John Deere. So, we have a great penetration in all business lines where we operate. The insurance group, as Ivan mentioned, I mean, and even I told you, we have a lot of traction also in the insurance group. I mean, look at our penetration. Look at our share. Our risk appetite has decreased a little bit, but we are now pursuing the right quality. This is our expectation, and we expect to deliver a higher top line and have a credit cost under control in 2025.

我的意思是，當我們擁有單一貸款時，例如汽車貸款，但如果你看看重型車輛貸款、卡車和重型車輛，我們擁有非常大的份額，我們現在將通過與約翰迪爾的業務進一步加速這一份額。因此，我們在我們經營的所有業務領域都有很大的滲透力​​。保險集團，正如伊凡所提到的，我的意思是，甚至我告訴過你，我們在保險集團也有很大的吸引力。我的意思是，看看我們的滲透力。看看我們的分享。我們的風險偏好有所下降，但我們現在追求的是正確的品質。這是我們的預期，我們預計到 2025 年將實現更高的收入並控制信貸成本。

Looking at client NII, there are three main drivers. First, portfolio growth. Marcelo and Cassiano were clear, telling you that we continue to grow those portfolios. Next, our cost of funding is below 5% of the CDI, and we are taking action to lower that even further, which will help us improve our client NII. And again, look at our spread, which is the risk adjusted return. We don't want to have more spread with a higher loan loss provisions. We're always looking at the RAR. So, these drivers will help us. The first two will certainly help us, and the third one, too.

從客戶端 NII 來看，有三個主要驅動因素。首先，投資組合成長。馬塞洛和卡西亞諾很明確地告訴大家，我們將繼續擴大這些投資組合。接下來，我們的融資成本低於 CDI 的 5%，我們正在採取行動進一步降低這筆成本，這將有助於我們改善客戶的 NII。再看看我們的利差，也就是風險調整後的報酬。我們不希望更高的貸款損失準備金帶來更大的利差。我們一直在查看 RAR。因此，這些驅動程式將為我們提供幫助。前兩者肯定會對我們有幫助，第三個也是。

Brian Flores, Citi.

布萊恩·弗洛雷斯，花旗銀行。

Hello. Thank you for taking my questions. It's a brief question about the impact of the interest rate. Thinking about the market NII now, I think we are now closer to $2 billion in 2024, and looking at the scenario you described with a higher basic interest rate, do you believe that in 2025, could we dream of having an NII similar to this one, similar to the one in 2024?

你好。感謝您回答我的問題。這是一個關於利率影響的簡短問題。現在考慮一下市場NII，我認為我們現在在2024年已經接近20億美元，並且看看你所描述的基本利率更高的場景，你認為在2025年，我們是否可以夢想擁有類似這樣的NII一，類似2024年的那個？

Thank you, Brian. Obviously, we're not talking about 2025 yet, but I can tell you that we have a more neutral view. I mean, we do not have our structure hedged, but we do have important action that make our liability management more neutral. For 2025, we still don't have a clear view of what will happen to the market, so I prefer to talk about that when we publish our guidance. But I believe we have a more neutral position now for this new higher interest rate cycle.

謝謝你，布萊恩。顯然，我們還沒有談論 2025 年，但我可以告訴你，我們有更中立的觀點。我的意思是，我們的結構沒有對沖，但我們確實採取了重要行動，使我們的負債管理更加中立。對於 2025 年，我們仍然不清楚市場會發生什麼，所以我更願意在發布指導時談論這一點。但我相信，對於這個新的升息週期，我們現在持更中立的立場。

Thank you. Well, we're closing the question and answer session. Those questions we were not able to answer here will be answered by our investor relations team. I'd like to turn the floor to Marcelo for his final statement, and I'd like to let you know on your website, you can find the whole package of our results.

謝謝。好的，我們將結束問答環節。我們無法在這裡回答的問題將由我們的投資者關係團隊來回答。我想請馬塞洛發表最後的聲明，我想讓您知道，您可以在您的網站上找到我們的全部結果。

Thank you, Andre. Thank you, Cassiano. I'd like to thank all of you for joining us today. Our team is always available, myself and Cassiano, also are available to answer any more questions you might have. We'll be meeting soon, and I expect you to join in the next earnings conference call. Thank you very much.

謝謝你，安德烈。謝謝你，卡夏諾。我要感謝大家今天加入我們。我們的團隊隨時為您服務，我和卡西亞諾也可以回答您可能有的任何問題。我們很快就會見面，我希望您能參加下一次的收益電話會議。非常感謝。