Banco Bradesco S.A. (BBD) 2026 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning everyone. Thank you so much for joining us, again. We are here, once again, to speak about our earnings results, especially for the second-quarter of 2026.

各位早安。非常感謝大家再次加入我們。我們今天再次在此，向各位說明我們的財報表現，特別是2026年第二季的盈餘結果。

We are talking to you straight from our studios at Cidade de Deus. Now, it's 10:31, August 6. We are here live; and alive; and kicking.

我們正在位於Cidade de Deus的攝影棚，直接與各位對話。現在是8月6日10:31。我們正在現場直播；精神奕奕；狀態十足。

If I even say this, probably, the young generation doesn't even know what it is. We are here broadcasting live from Cidade de Deus. I'm here to present our results.

如果我這麼說，可能年輕一代甚至不知道那是什麼。我們正在從Cidade de Deus進行現場直播。我在此向各位呈報我們的業績。

As you've seen from yesterday's publication, we reached BRL7.1 billion net income in the second quarter and 16.2% growth, year on year; 3.5%, quarter-over-quarter, with [ROAE] of 16.2%, higher than what the market expected because the market expected that we would reach 16% ROAE in the last quarter of this year.

如各位從昨日發布的資料所見，我們在第二季達到71億巴西雷亞爾的淨利，年增16.2%；季增3.5%；[ROAE]為16.2%，高於市場預期，因為市場原本預期我們要到今年最後一季才會達到16%的ROAE。

Here, I bring a summary of our presentation. I'm not going to elaborate on any of those topics. But loan portfolio is growing with more guarantees, with a very good risk-adjusted return.

在此我先帶來本次簡報的摘要。我不會逐一展開說明這些主題。但我們的放款組合正在成長，且具備更多擔保，並帶來非常好的風險調整後報酬。

In the past two months, our IR department has been talking to investors. They are asking us about what is happening to the macro landscape and the credit landscape.

過去兩個月，我們的投資人關係（IR）部門一直在與投資人溝通。他們詢問我們總體環境與信用環境正在發生什麼變化。

I will talk about our standing vis-à-vis revenue. Also, we will talk about our accelerated transformation project. I'll talk to you about cause-and-effect. This is what I always do.

我會談談我們在營收方面的相對表現。同時，我們也會談到我們加速轉型的專案。我會向各位說明因果關係。這一直是我的做法。

What is behind this result? Why are we growing our loan portfolio? We posted growth of 11.6% year over year, even more than quarter over quarter. The portfolio reached BRL1.137 billion.

這個結果背後的原因是什麼？為什麼我們的放款組合能夠成長？我們年增11.6%，甚至高於季增幅度。放款組合達到1,137億巴西雷亞爾。

Even CAGR, we posted 11.7% growth. Why is that? Well, that's explained because we have high penetration commercial traction.

即便以CAGR來看，我們也達到11.7%的成長。為什麼會這樣？原因在於我們在商業端具有高滲透率與強勁動能。

We have a very good and well-equipped commercial team, with a lot of intelligence behind it. Also, we have digital channels.

我們擁有一支非常優秀且配備完善的商業團隊，背後有大量的數據與洞察支撐。同時，我們也有數位通路。

I'll talk about the [FGO]. We were the first bank to provide a very seamless FGO experience. This is happening throughout the organization. I'll go through all of that through my comments.

我會談到[FGO]。我們是第一家提供非常順暢FGO體驗的銀行。這正在整個組織內推進。我會在我的評論中逐一說明。

The cause is commercial traction in all business segments; in all business lines -- no exception. This culminates in the growth of our loan portfolio. Further on, I'll talk about the other items or end-line items in our revenue.

原因在於所有業務區隔、所有業務線的商業動能——無一例外。這最終帶動我們放款組合的成長。接下來，我也會談到營收中的其他項目或底線項目。

[SMEs] posted 16.1% year over year, despite the baseline of the same period of last year. This is a big highlight.

[SMEs]年增16.1%，即使去年同期基期已不低。這是一個非常重要的亮點。

Large corporates grew 12.7%, year over year. I'll elaborate on large companies further on. Individuals, 8.4% growth, year over year. That means that we are growing in different lines and in all aspects that we wanted to grow.

大型企業年增12.7%。我稍後會進一步說明大型企業。個人業務年增8.4%。這表示我們在不同業務線、以及我們希望成長的各個面向都在擴張。

We are also growing in customers with good ratings; with good credit modeling and adequate policies in every segment we operate.

我們也在信用評等良好的客群中成長；並在各營運區隔採用良好的信用模型與適切的政策。

I'd like you to remember one number because SME grew 5.1% quarter over quarter. This portfolio year on year grew BRL37 billion. Let's bear that number in mind because we will talk about it later on. I have some other figures for you here because they are in tune with what I said before.

我希望各位記住一個數字，因為中小企業（SME）季增5.1%。這個組合年增了370億巴西雷亞爾。請把這個數字記在心裡，因為我們稍後會再談到。我這裡還有一些其他數據，因為它們與我先前所說的相一致。

Where do we want to grow? Okay, earmarked credit -- mostly, FGO; [FGI]; mortgage, including the [businessman plan] -- we grew [21.4%], when compared to [12.7%] in the market. When I look at non-earmarked, we grew slightly lower than the financial system.

我們希望在哪些領域成長？好的，政策性（定向）信貸——主要是FGO；[FGI]；房貸（包含[businessman plan]）——我們成長了[21.4%]，相較市場的[12.7%]。至於非政策性（非定向）信貸，我們的成長略低於整體金融體系。

And then, we have the other unsecured lines that we don't have a lot of risk appetite. We grew more in corporate because we have more secure lines, when it comes to corporate.

另外，對於其他無擔保產品線，我們的風險偏好不高。我們在企業端成長較多，因為企業端有更多具擔保的產品線。

We are well tractioned in the payroll-deductible loan. We are also very comfortable in direct credit to consumer.

我們在薪資扣繳貸款方面動能良好。我們在直接消費者信貸方面也非常有把握。

See, here, corporate, we grew 14.7% versus 7.9%, which was the market growth. We are growing in the lines that we want to grow. We are focusing our teams and our digital channels to these particular lines.

各位看這裡，在企業端，我們成長14.7%，相較市場成長7.9%。我們正在我們想要成長的產品線上擴張。我們正將團隊與數位通路聚焦於這些特定產品線。

Now, let's zoom in to our expanded loan portfolio. All of them have risk-adjusted return, periodically assessed by myself, included. Last week, we looked at two other portfolios.

現在，讓我們聚焦到我們的擴大放款組合。所有組合都具備風險調整後報酬，並由我（也包含我在內）定期評估。上週我們又檢視了另外兩個組合。

We are constantly looking at that. We make fine-tuning and make adjustments. We are not saying that we will look at this or that.

我們持續不斷地檢視這些內容。我們會進行微調並做出調整。我們不是說只會看這個或那個。

We are leaders in some areas. But the main focus is to look at risk-adjusted return. Here, I'm referring to the wholesale bank, with this level of growth.

我們在某些領域是領先者。但主要重點是檢視風險調整後報酬。在此我指的是批發銀行業務，在這樣的成長幅度之下。

Where did we grow in the wholesale banking? We will talk about the agribusiness area. But we were leaders in fixed-income origination; also, securities.

我們在批發銀行業務中是在哪些地方成長？我們會談到農業綜合企業（agribusiness）領域。但我們在固定收益承銷（origination）以及證券業務方面也居於領先。

But part of our securities go to [OPD] portfolio, which is origination for distribution. We'll distribute something to the market. And then, we go into the secondary market because you optimize capital or you optimize profits.

不過，我們部分證券會進入[OPD]組合，也就是「承作以供分銷」（origination for distribution）。我們會把部分產品分銷到市場。接著，我們會進入次級市場，因為你可以優化資本或優化獲利。

That's why I say that wholesale portfolio has its ups and downs. It can go up. And then, it goes down. Here, we grew in the rural area or agribusiness, with M&A opportunities in very specific lines.

因此我才說，批發組合會有起伏。它可能上升。然後又下降。在此，我們在農村或農業綜合企業領域成長，並在非常特定的產品線上把握併購（M&A）機會。

I would say that there are two operations that we did: one in agribusiness, which was an M,&A with an [AAA] client; and then, another client, with very good ratings but with extreme liquidity.

我會說我們做了兩筆交易：一筆在農業綜合企業，是與一位[AAA]客戶的併購（M&A）；另一筆則是另一位評等非常好、但流動性極為充裕的客戶。

In these two transactions, alone, we were able to post BRL6 billion in the wholesale bank. But we grew a lot in the Plano Empresário or entrepreneurial plan.

僅這兩筆交易，我們就在批發銀行業務中新增了60億巴西雷亞爾。但我們在Plano Empresário（企業家／創業者方案）方面也成長很多。

We grew in different segments in the wholesale bank and, also, SME. This is a line that is posting considerable growth. We will also focus on the individual segment.

我們在批發銀行以及中小企業（SME）等不同區隔都有成長。這是一條成長相當可觀的產品線。我們也會聚焦於個人客群。

But where else? We are the largest funders of aviation leasing. We have 64% market share. Everything that was done in this first quarter, in terms of aircraft, that were financed to companies and, also, wealth management is right here: 64%.

那還有哪些領域？我們是航空租賃最大的資金提供者。我們擁有64%的市占率。第一季所有與飛機相關、提供給企業的融資，以及財富管理相關的業務，都在這裡：64%。

We are leaders, when it comes to aircraft leasing -- particularly among those clients that have a very well-positioned and collateralized risk management.

在飛機租賃方面，我們是領導者——特別是在那些風險管理到位、且有良好擔保品配置的客戶之中。

And then, I go back to wholesale and SME. I'm talking about individuals plus SMEs in the expanded loan portfolio. This is the level of growth we posted.

接著，我回到批發與中小企業（SME）。我指的是在擴大後的放款組合中，個人加上中小企業。這就是我們所呈現的成長水準。

And then, here, we are talking about origination. Origination -- the average monthly origination in these lines for wholesale and SME.

然後，在這裡，我們談的是承作量（origination）。承作量——批發與中小企業這些業務線的平均每月承作量。

The average origination quarter on quarter was mostly in FGI and FGO; and, also, mortgage; and, also, on the business side. In the other products where the risk appetite is lower, there was a decline in average origination by 7.7%.

按季比較的平均承作量主要集中在FGI與FGO；以及房貸；也包括企業端。在其他風險偏好較低的產品上，平均承作量下滑了7.7%。

Now, we move on to help you understand all of our tactic and strategic moves. Let's look at the mix of our loan portfolio: FGI and FGO origination.

現在，我們接著說明我們所有的戰術與策略性動作。讓我們看看放款組合的結構：FGI與FGO的承作。

There is a lot of competition in this area by all incumbent banks. We were number 1 in market share, with 21.6% market share. The same thing goes for the entire year of 2025.

這個領域所有既有銀行競爭都非常激烈。我們的市占率排名第1，市占率為21.6%。2025年全年也是同樣的情況。

In the quarter, our origination was up 52.7% -- in the second quarter, when compared to the first quarter of 2026.

本季我們的承作量成長了52.7%——也就是2026年第二季相較第一季。

But, now, let's take a look at retail and SME -- the last available data by the [Central Bank] for those clients that earn up to BRL2 million a year. This is something we said since the [Unsettled Plan].

不過，現在我們來看零售與中小企業——依[中央銀行]針對年收入最高達200萬巴西雷亞爾（BRL2 million）的客戶所提供的最新可得資料。這是我們自[Unsettled Plan]以來就一直在說的。

We saw new growth superseding 70% of market share. Our FGI/FGO portfolio grew 64.5%, year over year. This is an extremely secure portfolio by both fronts.

我們看到新增成長的市占率超過70%。我們的FGI/FGO組合年增64.5%。這在兩個面向上都是極為安全的投組。

There are five lines of FGI and FGO. We're operating all of them. But, now -- later on, I'll talk about the effects of NPL over [90] and cost of risk.

FGI與FGO共有五條產品線。我們五條都在經營。不過——稍後我會談到逾期（NPL）超過[90]天以及風險成本的影響。

Now, credit card: You notice that the bulk of the growth is in high income, with lower appetite in smaller income. We are being very cautious here.

接著是信用卡：你會注意到成長主要來自高收入族群，對較低收入族群的風險偏好較低。我們在這裡非常謹慎。

But we might bear in mind that we still have clients that have lower income. They pay on time. They are payroll clients. They are clients from our partnerships. But, these lower incomes, they're losing share in the portfolio in the past 30 months. But they're still there.

但我們也要記得，我們仍然有一些低收入客戶。他們按時繳款。他們是薪轉客戶。他們是來自我們合作夥伴的客戶。不過，這些低收入族群在過去30個月於投組中的占比一直在下降。但他們仍然存在。

But, now, if we look at credit-card delinquencies, this delay comes from old cohorts. About 80% comes from cohorts from 2019; and, most of the time, are clients that have their payroll with us. They were in dire straits or they lost their jobs or they faced some difficulties.

但如果我們看信用卡逾期，這些延遲主要來自較早期的客群（cohorts）。約80%來自2019年的客群；而且多數時候是把薪資轉入我們銀行的客戶。他們當時處境艱難、或失業、或遇到一些困難。

But this doesn't apply to newer cohorts. But there is something else here because this is a relationship product. We want and we are choosing the right clients with the right ratings, with a very assertive credit policy.

但這不適用於較新的客群。此外，這裡還有另一點，因為這是一個關係型產品。我們希望、也正在挑選合適的客戶與合適的評等，並採取非常精準的授信政策。

Every time we look at credit card, we are looking at cost of risk and provisions but 8 times more than what we used to do in the past.

每次我們看信用卡業務時，我們檢視風險成本與提存的力度，是過去的8倍。

But, now, let's go down to the next line, vehicles. We recorded growth of 26.8%, year over year. We were leaders in one or other quadrants of vehicles: heavy vehicles, light vehicles, and semi-new or used vehicles. But we were not leaders in new heavy vehicles because the risk-adjusted return here is lower.

接著我們往下一條產品線看：車貸。我們年增26.8%。我們在車貸的某些象限是領先者：重型車、輕型車，以及次新車或中古車。但在全新重型車方面我們不是領先者，因為這裡的風險調整後報酬較低。

Last year, I told you that we will start operating in the vehicle segments because we saw some opportunities in some segments. We thought that we could post growth.

去年我告訴過各位，我們會開始在車貸各細分市場展業，因為我們在某些區隔看到了機會。我們認為可以帶來成長。

But we completely changed our operating circuit. We changed the platform. We added machine learning, AI behind pricing, risk modeling, credit policy; and, also, pricing for clients and dealers.

但我們徹底改變了營運流程。我們更換了平台。我們在定價、風險模型、授信政策背後加入機器學習與AI；同時也用於客戶與經銷商的定價。

With that, customer experience changed completely. We delivered different experiences for dealers and clients. With that, we were able to increase our share.

因此，客戶體驗完全改變。我們為經銷商與客戶提供了不同的體驗。藉此，我們得以提升市占。

When I talk about semi-new vehicles or used vehicles, I'm not talking about 20-year-old vehicles or heavy vehicles. I'm talking about vehicles that are five to six years old, depending on the ratings of our clients. We gain share, where we have higher risk-adjusted return.

當我談到次新車或中古車時，我不是指20年車齡的車或重型車。我指的是車齡約5到6年的車，視我們客戶的評等而定。我們在風險調整後報酬較高的地方取得市占。

If you look at the motorcycle market, our appetite is more moderate. There are other banks that operate in that line segment.

如果你看機車市場，我們的風險偏好較為溫和。有其他銀行在那個產品線區隔中經營。

This also means that, when we grow this portfolio -- on average, we say that we get 1% provision -- cost of risk according to the [4966].

這也意味著，當我們擴張這個投組時——平均而言，我們說依據[4966]，提存（provision）——風險成本約為1%。

But the client that is delinquent -- there is always someone that is paying late. Right at start, we have, like, 12%, on top of the balance of that client, in terms of cost of risk.

但對於發生逾期的客戶——總會有人晚繳。一開始，我們在該客戶的餘額之上，風險成本大約是12%。

That's why I like to explain that dynamics because it's easier for you to understand what it means by over [90] and cost of risk.

所以我喜歡解釋這個動態，因為這樣你更容易理解逾期超過[90]天以及風險成本的意涵。

Payroll loan was up by 9.3%. If you were curious enough to look at the full year of 2025, you would see that, in some quarters, we were growing at the pace of 5%. That means that we expanded our growth.

薪資貸款年增9.3%。如果你有興趣去看2025年全年，你會看到在某些季度，我們的成長速度是5%。這表示我們擴大了成長。

But where did we grow the most? Well, private. Year over year, we grew 88% in public. We continue to grow public-payroll loan.

但我們成長最多的是哪裡？嗯，民營（private）。在公部門（public）方面，我們年增88%。我們持續擴張公部門薪資貸款。

We are the largest private bank, when it comes to public-payroll loan and private-payroll loan. We are just behind two banks that are government banks.

在公部門薪資貸款與民營薪資貸款方面，我們是最大的民營銀行。我們僅次於兩家政府銀行。

Delinquency on payroll loans, I think it's important to say. Because this shows what we are doing in terms of portfolio management so risk-adjusted return and risk control, in fact.

我認為談到薪資貸款的逾期情況很重要。因為這能顯示我們在投組管理上所做的事——也就是風險調整後報酬與風險控管。

But, when we look at payroll loan, in general, the delinquency of the market is 3.3%. Ours is 2.5%. When we only look at the private segment -- and this has made the news and the headlines -- the market without Bradesco has an over 90 delinquency of 8.9%; whereas, ours is 4.7%.

但整體來看薪資貸款，市場的逾期率是3.3%。我們的是2.5%。當我們只看民營區隔——而這也上了新聞與標題——市場（不含Bradesco）的90天以上逾期率是8.9%；而我們的是4.7%。

Now, moving on, I'll talk about agribusiness. It grew almost 25%, year over year. But look where it's stretching.

接下來，我會談農業綜合企業（agribusiness）。年增接近25%。但請看它延伸到哪裡。

In the wholesale bank, I mentioned one M&A event with a large client. This is where wholesale bank increases with guarantees -- secured [AA] and AAA clients.

在批發銀行方面，我提到過一件與大型客戶相關的併購（M&A）事件。這就是批發銀行在有擔保的情況下增加的地方——有擔保的[AA]與AAA客戶。

We do believe in Brazilian agribusiness. We understand that this involves a cycle that is a bit more difficult for one reason or another. But there are many good clients there. Therefore, we chose to continue to operate in this market, with good ratings.

我們確實看好巴西的農業綜合企業。我們理解這其中涉及一個因各種原因而較為艱難的循環。但那裡有許多優質客戶。因此，我們選擇以良好評等持續在這個市場經營。

But, if you look at the agribusiness individuals portfolio; if we look at June and then, you compare it to December 2025, there is a decline of 0.6%. And then, there is another example: our over 90 NPL.

但是，如果你看農業綜合企業個人投資組合；如果我們看6月，然後與2025年12月相比，下降了0.6%。然後，還有另一個例子：我們的90天以上不良貸款（NPL）。

This segment -- the market without Bradesco -- in March, it went from 7.3% to 7.6%; and Bradesco went from 5% to 4.6% -- meaning that our delinquency is well under control without the John Deere bank that has higher delinquency, which also affects our NPL: [15] to 90.

這個分部——不含Bradesco的市場——在3月從7.3%升至7.6%；而Bradesco從5%降至4.6%——這表示，即使不含違約率較高、也會影響我們NPL（[15]至90）的約翰迪爾銀行，我們的逾期情況仍然控制得很好。

Our market share in Brazilian agribusiness is about 12%. This is just an estimate. But our share in court reorganization is 3.5%. We monitor this very closely. This percentage is much lower, when compared to the market.

我們在巴西農業綜合企業的市占率約為12%。這只是估算。但我們在司法重整（court reorganization）中的占比是3.5%。我們非常密切地監控這一點。與市場相比，這個比例低得多。

This is good to show you how we manage our portfolio. We manage in terms of risk-adjusted returns and with a lot of portfolio control, choosing -- being very selective in terms of our clients.

這很好地向各位展示我們如何管理投資組合。我們以風險調整後報酬為導向，並透過大量的組合控管來管理，選擇——在客戶挑選上非常嚴格。

Here, I comment on secured lines. This is a production chart that refers to the expanded loan portfolio for individuals and SMEs.

這裡我談的是有擔保的授信產品。這是一張產出圖，指的是個人與中小企業（SMEs）的擴大貸款投資組合。

Looking at the chart, origination; FGI and FGO; and mortgage for individuals and, also, corporate gained traction in the last quarter. There is also payroll loan here, right? This also contemplates payroll loan. It is not just clean credit.

從圖表看，放款承作（origination）；FGI與FGO；以及個人房貸，還有企業端，在上一季都更有動能。這裡也有薪資扣繳貸款（payroll loan），對吧？這也包含薪資扣繳貸款。不只是無擔保信用貸款（clean credit）。

But the spreads -- well, first of all, the absolute number goes down because this is fine-tuning of risk, I would say: new modeling, risk appetite. The spreads in the other lines, they were up 11%, when compared to the third quarter of 2025.

但利差——首先，絕對金額下降，因為我會說這是風險的微調：新的模型、風險偏好。其他產品線的利差，相較於2025年第三季上升了11%。

But, now, looking at the right side of the chart, we have the guarantee-claim periods from government programs, like FGI and FGO. They take 180 days or 185 days to receive payment. We are within the stop-loss because there are rules that apply here.

不過，現在看圖表右側，我們有政府計畫（如FGI與FGO）的擔保理賠（claim）期間。它們需要180天或185天才能收到款項。我們仍在停損（stop-loss）範圍內，因為這裡有適用的規則。

At FGO, you have 100% coverage and, still, correct it for inflation. Our stop-loss is foreseen for each one. It depends on where our risk appetite is. But there are two phenomenon here.

在FGO，你有100%覆蓋，並且還會按通膨調整。我們對每一項都有預先設定停損。這取決於我們的風險偏好落點。但這裡有兩個現象。

The first has to do with the cost of risk because, according to 4966, while you wait for the payment period -- for the guaranteed payment period -- for companies, which had maturities in grace period -- after the grace period, maybe they couldn't pay; they were delayed in their payments. Then, we call in provisions.

第一個與風險成本有關，因為依據4966，在你等待付款期間——也就是擔保付款期間——對於企業而言，原本到期後仍在寬限期內——寬限期結束後，可能無法付款；付款出現延遲。於是我們就會提列備抵（provisions）。

It is different than -- when compared to a clean credit. We get provisions until the guarantee-claim period. And then, we just return with the provision amount.

這與——相較於無擔保信用貸款（clean credit）——是不同的。我們會一直提列備抵直到擔保理賠期間。然後，我們就把備抵金額回轉。

But there is a second aspect here that puts pressure on (inaudible) -- with maturities and grace periods: our production peak of FGI and FGO.

但這裡還有第二個面向，會對（聽不清）造成壓力——與到期與寬限期有關：我們FGI與FGO的承作高峰。

Last year, when we became leaders, the period was between March and October of last year. Therefore, now, we see maturity peaks in the grace period, even though we are close to 50% of this entire scenario.

去年我們成為領先者時，高峰期是在去年3月至10月之間。因此，現在我們看到寬限期內的到期高峰，儘管我們接近占整個情境的50%。

And then, we moved to the loan-quality indicators. Like (inaudible) -- was up 10 basis points so it is flat for us. Individuals, 10 basis points, as well. But SMEs; government lines; FGI and FGO, it happened in the previous quarter and this quarter, alone.

接著，我們來看放款品質指標。像（聽不清）——上升了10個基點，因此對我們而言是持平。個人端也上升10個基點。但中小企業；政府授信；FGI與FGO，這在上一季以及本季單季就發生了。

It puts pressure on (inaudible) -- NPL, until the curve stops growing. It takes some time. And then, we will get normal, after the guarantee is paid. We are not worried about that. Wholesale is 0.2%.

這會對（聽不清）——不良貸款（NPL）造成壓力，直到曲線停止上升。這需要一些時間。然後，在擔保款項支付後，我們就會回到正常。我們不擔心這件事。批發銀行（Wholesale）是0.2%。

And then, I move to the loan portfolio by stages. There is a footnote here that talks about NPL 15 90, with 30 basis points of variation. This mostly comes from the John Deere bank that had some variations in the third quarter. This level of delinquency was up significantly.

接著，我轉到按階段（stages）劃分的貸款投資組合。這裡有一個註腳談到NPL 15–90，變動30個基點。這主要來自約翰迪爾銀行，其在第三季出現了一些變動。這個逾期水準顯著上升。

But we know that all of the equipment has a chip. There is a recovery time; an updating time for some clients. The equipment is sitting there. It is still operating. Then, all you have to do is update their payments.

但我們知道所有設備都有晶片。有一個回收時間；也有一些客戶需要更新（資料/狀態）的時間。設備就放在那裡。它仍在運作。然後，你要做的就是更新他們的付款。

Look at stage 3: We had 10 bps as a variation. That came from a specific client from the wholesale bank because the bulk of the provision came from last quarter. We did a little bit this quarter.

看第3階段（stage 3）：我們的變動是10個基點。這來自批發銀行的一個特定客戶，因為大部分的備抵在上一季就已提列。我們在本季只做了一點。

It was duly provisioned. But part of it was derivative and securities. This client restructured himself in the market with bondholder. It is a very well-known client. But we do not comment on the specific cases. But that was that specific case that generated this.

已經適當地提列備抵。但其中一部分是衍生性商品與證券。這位客戶在市場上與債券持有人進行了重整。這是一位非常知名的客戶。但我們不評論個別案例。不過，就是這個特定案例造成了這個結果。

But stage 2 that has a [0.6] variation was basically justified by FGI and FGO, with [0.2], approximately -- slightly above that. The John Deere Bank, as well, that put pressure on this KPI that is transferred to stage 2.

但第2階段（stage 2）出現[0.6]的變動，基本上是由FGI與FGO所致，約為[0.2]——略高於此。約翰迪爾銀行也對這個KPI造成壓力，而該KPI會轉入第2階段。

The remaining is diluted in the portfolio, even though our delinquency levels are lower, when compared to the market.

其餘部分分散在投資組合中，儘管我們的逾期水準相較於市場仍較低。

But, now, looking at the restructured portfolio that was decreasing with time -- and then, we said that we are reaching a balance here. But this variation you see comes from that client, again, that went to stage 3. That is obviously here in the restructured portfolio.

不過，現在看重組（restructured）投資組合，它原本隨時間在下降——然後我們說我們正在達到一個平衡。但你看到的這個變動再次來自那位客戶，他轉入了第3階段。這當然也反映在重組投資組合中。

If it weren't for that one, even with the Desenrola program, we would have let that go. It's covered today -- totally covered today. It's absolutely within what we anticipate in terms of expected loss. Desenrola, we did this much into June. This is open for everyone to see.

如果不是那一筆，即使有Desenrola計畫，我們也會讓它繼續下降。今天它已被覆蓋——今天已完全覆蓋。完全在我們對預期損失（expected loss）的預估範圍內。Desenrola，我們做到6月為止是這個程度。這是公開可查的。

But what was the impact of this overnight? Cost of risk and result, that is almost zero. It's null; 0.00-something else but almost nothing.

但這對隔夜（overnight）的影響是什麼？風險成本與損益，幾乎為零。是零；0.00之類，但幾乎沒有。

This was enforced into July. And then, it was extended to August. At the end of the third quarter, we will go back and talk about it, again.

這在7月開始實施。然後延長到8月。在第三季末，我們會再回來談一次。

But our secured portfolio, it's up to 61% -- 69% secured loans in individuals. This is cause-and-effect. This is a work of diligent portfolio management.

但我們的有擔保投資組合已達61%——個人端有擔保貸款占69%。這是因果關係。這是嚴謹的投資組合管理工作的成果。

We are working more commonly with secured lines and in the composition of the mix that increases secured lines.

我們更常使用有擔保產品線，並在組合結構（mix）的配置上提高有擔保產品線的比重。

What is the other effect of the growth of our loan portfolio? It's the growth of total revenue that reached BRL37.6 billion, up 10.3%, year on year. Total net interest income, almost BRL20.9 billion. Fee and commission income, [BRL10.5 million]. I will comment on that later on.

我們貸款組合成長的另一個影響是什麼？就是總營收的成長，達到376億巴西雷亞爾（BRL），年增10.3%。淨利息收入總額接近209億巴西雷亞爾。手續費與佣金收入，[1,050萬巴西雷亞爾]。我稍後會再評論。

Also, the insurance group that has been shown great resilience every quarter, with good returns, at this level of growth of 8.3%.

另外，保險集團每一季都展現出很強的韌性，報酬表現良好，在這個層級的成長為8.3%。

Here, for the second quarter of '24 to second quarter of '26, our CAGR -- this is the average growth -- is 12.5%. The effect of the loan portfolio, which has more guarantees, generates this.

在這裡，從2024年第二季到2026年第二季，我們的CAGR——也就是平均成長——為12.5%。貸款組合的影響（其擔保更多）帶來了這個結果。

I also read some comments of some investors about our client NIIs and the market NII. I would like to highlight the market NII.

我也看到一些投資人對我們的客戶端NII以及市場端NII的評論。我想特別強調市場端NII。

There was BRL700 million in this quarter, growth by almost 21.7%, thanks to the competent work of our treasury team, working very well in trading; ALM and energy desk; client desk; and so on.

本季市場端NII為7億巴西雷亞爾，成長將近21.7%，這要歸功於我們資金部團隊的專業工作，在交易方面表現非常好；以及ALM與能源交易台；客戶交易台；等等。

And then, people wrote that top was the market NII that grew 22%. But, when I look at the client NII, almost 14% growth, year on year.

然後，有人寫到亮點是市場端NII成長了22%。但是，當我看客戶端NII時，年增接近14%。

But, if you look at the figures, this market NII year on year was BRL350 million, approximately. It's increased by twofold. Well, it grew a lot.

不過，如果你看數字，這個市場端NII的年增約為3.5億巴西雷亞爾。等於增加到兩倍。確實成長很多。

When we look at the client NII -- I look at this -- it went from BRL17.8 billion to BRL20.2 billion, BRL2.5 billion of absolute growth.

當我們看客戶端NII——我看的是這個——它從178億巴西雷亞爾增加到202億巴西雷亞爾，絕對增量為25億巴西雷亞爾。

But the client NII is not only from the loan portfolio. The liability grew relevantly. It drove this total growth of the client NII.

但客戶端NII不僅來自貸款組合。負債端也有顯著成長。這帶動了客戶端NII的整體成長。

The cost of risk grew. But it was flat in proportion at 3.5%, with all those points I mentioned of FGO, FGI, John Deere Bank. The client NII net of provision at 4.5% -- reflecting, obviously, the cost of risk over here.

風險成本上升了。但按比例來看維持在3.5%持平，包含我提到的FGO、FGI、John Deere Bank等因素。扣除提存後的客戶端NII為4.5%——顯然反映了這裡的風險成本。

But the growth is not significant. If you look at our loan portfolio at the end of '23, you will see that we grew, in 30 months, 30%. When you grow, you call more provision. The cost of risk goes up, in addition to everything I've mentioned.

但這個成長並不顯著。如果你看我們在2023年底的貸款組合，你會看到我們在30個月內成長了30%。當你成長時，就會需要更多提存。風險成本會上升，此外還有我提到的所有因素。

Going on to the new topic, which is a consequence of, also, the traction in the commercial side and client penetration, we grew 1.7% in fee and commission income. We believe that we are within the guidance.

接著進入新主題，這也是商業端動能與客戶滲透提升的結果：我們的手續費與佣金收入成長1.7%。我們認為這在指引範圍內。

I would like to highlight the resilience over here. Consortiums and, also, asset management, both growing at 10%. But custodian brokerage service is 26.4%.

我想在這裡強調其韌性。聯合購買（Consortiums）以及資產管理，兩者都成長10%。但保管經紀服務成長為26.4%。

I highlight the highest result that we've had with our agro brokerage and agro market. They are both combined. They are working in synergy, with only one broker, with the services for individuals, supporting wealth; and, also, for institutional clients, with their respective teams.

我也要強調我們在農業經紀與農業市場取得的最高成果。兩者是結合在一起的。它們以單一經紀商的模式協同運作：一方面提供個人客戶服務、支援財富管理；另一方面也為機構客戶提供服務，並由各自的團隊負責。

But, when you open the whole earnings release of the fee and commission income, you will see the following:

不過，當你打開手續費與佣金收入的完整財報揭露，你會看到如下內容：

You will have, like, nine lines. But, strictly speaking, we have a diversification of revenues with this grade, which is, at least, [15].

你會看到大概九個項目。但嚴格來說，我們的收入多元化程度達到這個層級，至少是[15]。

I'm not talking only about the credit card of separating the annuity. What I'm saying is that we have other lines that are also coming with equivalents and affect this. We do believe in our capacity to grow.

我不只是指信用卡把年費拆分出來。我的意思是，我們還有其他項目也在以相近的方式貢獻並影響這個結果。我們確信自己有能力持續成長。

Over here, in capital markets, we have been growing well. It decreases year over year because we had a very good second quarter last year -- and all the adjustments we did in the investment bank.

在資本市場方面，我們一直成長得不錯。但年比會下降，因為去年第二季表現非常好——以及我們在投資銀行所做的所有調整。

We reached here. We ranked first in local origination; first in M&A. But the evaluation was negative due to natural reasons because you have a higher baseline in that second quarter.

我們在這裡達到了這樣的成果。我們在本地承銷排名第一；在併購（M&A）也排名第一。但由於自然原因，評估呈現負向，因為去年第二季的基期更高。

But, in our different lines, what we've been doing is BRL1 billion more in revenue in 12 months, when compared to 2023. We've been doing that with resilience.

不過，在我們不同的業務線上，與2023年相比，我們在12個月內多創造了10億巴西雷亞爾的收入。我們以韌性做到這一點。

Forward. Other revenue lines that we have. We have insurance, pension plans, and savings bonds. Another robust quarter, with growth by 28.3% in net income, reaching BRL2.9 billion. We are growing based on a baseline, which is high, reaching these levels that you can see here.

往下看。我們還有其他收入線。我們有保險、退休金計畫，以及儲蓄債券。又是一個強勁的季度，淨利成長28.3%，達到29億巴西雷亞爾。我們是在高基期之上成長，達到你在這裡看到的水準。

When we look at the results of the insurance operations, we see that the total income had an increase of 8.3% year on year, 14% in the semester; in the half.

當我們看保險業務的結果時，可以看到總收入年增8.3%，上半年（半年）成長14%。

But, in the quarter, the operating result -- the industrial result, as they call -- grows more than the financial one; and, in the first half, the same.

但在單季，營運結果——他們稱之為「產業結果」——成長幅度高於金融結果；在上半年也是如此。

The traction is good. Let me give you an example that, in the press conference, [Nate] mentioned this topic. I emphasized it.

動能很好。我舉個例子，在記者會上，[Nate]提到了這個主題。我也特別強調了。

In the new platform that we have for autos, for vehicles, what happened? We sell with a totally different experience for the clients during sale. And then, clients can either choose, if they want the insurance for vehicles or not.

在我們新的汽車／車輛平台上，發生了什麼？我們在銷售過程中，為客戶提供完全不同的體驗。接著，客戶可以選擇是否要投保車輛保險。

What happened is that we did the whole production that we did in these two lines through Bradesco Financiamentos in our network in 2025. We grew almost -- by 100% in the production of these two types of insurance.

結果是，我們在2025年透過Bradesco Financiamentos在我們的通路網路中，完成了這兩條產品線的全部產量（承作）。這兩類保險的承作量成長了將近——100%。

The ROAE -- the quarterly ROAE -- almost 22.8%. The technical provisions, almost 10%; BRL467 billion provisions in the largest insurance group in Latin America.

ROAE——單季ROAE——接近22.8%。技術準備金接近10%；在拉丁美洲最大的保險集團中，準備金為4,670億巴西雷亞爾。

Operating expenses, year-on-year growth -- by 3.4%. We continue reviewing our footprints and investing in our transformation.

營業費用年增3.4%。我們持續檢視我們的據點布局，並投資於轉型。

We haven't stopped doing anything here. It's gain in efficiency. If you look at the full earnings release, you will find lines -- just like installations -- with negative variation. Obviously, that does influence our efficiency ratio. Obviously, a growth of 3.4% is below inflation.

我們在這裡沒有停止做任何事。這是效率提升。如果你看完整的財報揭露，你會看到一些項目——例如裝置／設施——出現負向變動。顯然，這會影響我們的效率比率。而且，3.4%的成長低於通膨。

Capital -- and I will be available for you to ask me about the increase that was approved by the Board. We went from this common equity -- from 0.9% -- and we are at 12.2%.

資本——我也願意讓各位就董事會核准的增資向我提問。我們的普通股權資本從0.9%——提升到12.2%。

This difference of Bradsaúde in the next period, this is our expectation. That can come to 13.6% and 15.1% in Tier 1 capital.

下一期Bradsaúde的這個差異，這是我們的預期。第一類資本（Tier 1）可能達到13.6%與15.1%。

These have a lot of deliverables done in our transformation. I'd like to call your attention to Bradesco Principal -- that we will have almost 800,000 clients. We have delivered that.

我們在轉型過程中已完成了許多交付成果。我想請各位特別注意 Bradesco Principal——我們將擁有將近 80 萬名客戶。我們已經交付完成。

Prime has almost 4.3 million clients. Bradesco -- fully digital -- 36 million clients in the middle of the year. We're going over 40 million clients. I will mention that later on.

Prime 目前約有 430 萬名客戶。Bradesco——全數位化——在年中時有 3,600 萬名客戶。我們將超過 4,000 萬名客戶。我稍後會再提到。

We are delivering a lot of new things for our clients, individuals, and corporate, with the issuance of [NFE], gaining in productivity, delivering more and more intensive use of AI in our organization and of other technologies, too. I will talk about that later on.

我們正為個人與企業客戶交付許多新事物，包括開立 [NFE]、提升生產力、在組織內更密集地運用 AI，以及其他技術。我稍後會再談。

Well, we have two screens to end and summarize all of this. We have a consistent net income growth, step by step. We continue with that, with a lot of resilience and, obviously, with great belief in everything that we've been doing.

好，我們用兩張投影片來結尾並總結這一切。我們的淨利持續、一步一步地穩健成長。我們會繼續前進，展現高度韌性，當然也對我們所做的一切充滿信心。

But, look at this, the operating result, which is in the full earnings release: We're growing over 14% in the operating results, with revenues growing double digits.

不過，請看這裡：營運結果（完整內容在財報新聞稿中）。我們的營運結果成長超過 14%，營收也以雙位數成長。

We are a conglomerate. This revenue diversification we have, not only in the banking activity but in the payments and in the subsidiaries, like consortium and in the insurance group -- we do have a very huge diversification, which gives us resilience.

我們是一個金融控股集團。我們的營收多元化不僅來自銀行業務，也來自支付以及子公司，例如財團（consortium）與保險集團——我們的多元化程度非常高，這也帶來韌性。

The transformation plan is very clear. It's generating greater competitiveness across business lines, both in terms of efficiency; and expenses; and revenues. Portfolio is growing safely, with more guarantees and a good risk-adjusted return. This is our bible here.

轉型計畫非常清楚。它正在各業務線提升競爭力，無論是在效率、費用或營收方面。資產組合在更安全的前提下成長，具備更多擔保與良好的風險調整後報酬。這就是我們的「聖經」。

I also mentioned this: We ranked first in fixed -income M&As during this period, vehicle financing, and in government debt, lines FGI, FGO, in consortiums and the insurance group -- the largest in Latin America.

我也提過：在此期間，我們在固定收益併購（M&A）、車輛融資以及政府債務（FGI、FGO 額度）、財團（consortium）與保險集團——拉丁美洲最大——等方面都排名第一。

That's not the end objective. Our objective is an optimum point of the risk-adjusted return -- obviously, with scale-absolute revenue -- to take decisions in our positions safely.

但這不是最終目標。我們的目標是達到風險調整後報酬的最佳點——當然也要兼顧規模與絕對營收——以便在我們的部位上做出安全的決策。

We have strengthened our balance sheets to unleash the value of Bradsaúde. We're continually focused so that the tangible capital of our organization is greater and greater.

我們已強化資產負債表，以釋放 Bradsaúde 的價值。我們持續聚焦，讓本組織的有形資本愈來愈強。

That's the objective -- all of that with pragmatism. We were awarded many prizes. If you would like to know more about that, have a look at it.

這就是目標——一切都以務實的方式推進。我們獲得了許多獎項。如果你想了解更多，請參考相關內容。

I would like to conclude with this platform that we launched here in the bank called [Meu Bradesco]. It has an important meaning.

我想以我們在銀行推出的平台作結，名為[Meu Bradesco]。它有重要的意義。

Why is it called Meu Bradesco -- My Bradesco? I'm talking about hyper-personalization. It's yours. It belongs to our clients. You come first. He is Meu Bradesco.

為什麼叫 Meu Bradesco——我的 Bradesco？我談的是超個人化（hyper-personalization）。它是你的。它屬於我們的客戶。你是第一位。這就是 Meu Bradesco。

They are already hyper-personalized. But it will grow more and more -- this hyper-personalization -- with all the innovation that we've been working on with AI; with the new experiences for clients.

它們已經是超個人化的。但在我們以 AI 推動的所有創新、以及為客戶打造的新體驗之下，這種超個人化將會愈來愈強。

But our BIA celebrates 10 years, now, with a birthday cake; with [Renato] and his team and everyone who works with BIA. Everyone has a birthday cake for BIA -- pioneer here in Brazil.

而我們的 BIA 現在迎來 10 週年，還有生日蛋糕；有 [Renato]、他的團隊，以及所有與 BIA 一起工作的同仁。大家都為 BIA 準備了生日蛋糕——在巴西是先驅。

Today, BIA is BIA GenAI and serves all our clients. She's available to 100% of clients with access. With this level of accuracy, we had 74 million interactions. It is transactional and, also, conversational. You can do your Pix through BIA and other transactions, too.

今天，BIA 已是 BIA GenAI，並服務我們所有客戶。凡是有存取權限的客戶，100% 都可使用。在這樣的準確度水準下，我們累積了 7,400 萬次互動。它既可交易，也可對話。你可以透過 BIA 進行 Pix 以及其他交易。

As you will see, throughout this semester, other new experiences, more technological but never less humane.

如各位所見，在本學期期間，還會有其他新體驗推出，更科技，但絕不更不人性。

This is our topic. This is the connection behind our manager. That is connecting the digital channels with our clients and, also, connecting the strength in sales with our clients.

這就是我們的主題。這是我們客戶經理背後的連結。它把數位通路與客戶連結起來，也把銷售的力量與客戶連結起來。

We will see the launching of our market throughout the day to day in social networks and in other media, okay, with Meu Bradesco -- My Bradesco?

我們將在日常的社群網路與其他媒體上看到我們的市場推廣上線，好嗎？搭配 Meu Bradesco——我的 Bradesco？

Thank you so much for your patience. I know I took longer to explain but, now, we're going to the Q&A. I'm here live with my friends, André Carvalho, IR; and Cassiano Scarpelli, CFO and CTO, to answer the questions that you have here. Thank you so much. Thanks for participating.

非常感謝各位的耐心。我知道我解釋得比較久，但現在我們要進入問答環節。我在現場與我的朋友 André Carvalho（投資人關係，IR）以及 Cassiano Scarpelli（財務長兼技術長，CFO/CTO）一起，回答各位的問題。非常感謝。謝謝各位參與。

Thank you, Marcelo and Cassiano. Good morning to you all.

謝謝 Marcelo 和 Cassiano。各位早安。

I would like to remind you that Ney Dias, the CEO of Bradesco Seguros; and Carlos Marinelli from Bradsaúde -- they are also joining us, remotely.

提醒各位，Bradesco Seguros 的執行長 Ney Dias，以及來自 Bradsaúde 的 Carlos Marinelli——也將以遠端方式加入我們。

(Event Instructions)

（活動說明）

André, if you allow me: Sometimes, we forget to say a few things. I would just like to go back for one sec, if you give me that chance?

André，如果你允許：有時候我們會忘了說幾件事。我想回到前面一秒鐘，如果你願意給我這個機會？

I would just like to go back to our presentation because I talk about the SME portfolio. I just want to mention one small thing:

我想回到我們的簡報，因為我提到了中小企業（SME）資產組合。我只想補充一個小點：

When we talk about SMEs -- I think this slide -- keep that number in mind: BRL37 billion. 10 seconds. Here. I said that our FGI and FGO grew 64.5%.

當我們談到中小企業（SME）——我想是這張投影片——請記住這個數字：370 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL）。10 秒。在這裡。我說過我們的 FGI 和 FGO 成長了 64.5%。

You know how much that grew from BRL37 billion? BRL31 billion came from year on year. But what about the rest? The other BRL6 billion? Well, it came mostly from leasing; direct credit to consumer.

你知道這是從 370 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL）成長了多少嗎？其中 310 億巴西雷亞爾來自年增（YoY）。那剩下的呢？另外 60 億巴西雷亞爾？主要來自租賃（leasing）；以及消費者直接信貸。

We finance aircraft, jets, and big boats on the wealth-management side; and the entrepreneur plan. This is where our portfolio is.

在財富管理端，我們為飛機、噴射機與大型船舶提供融資；以及創業者方案。這就是我們資產組合所在。

SME growth. It grew mostly based on secured lines; secured credit. I just remember that when I said that. I do apologize for that interruption. I just didn't want to leave that information behind.

中小企業（SME）成長。它主要是基於有擔保的額度；有擔保信貸而成長。我只是想起我剛才提到那點。很抱歉打斷一下。我只是不想漏掉這個資訊。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

Mario Pierry，美國銀行（Bank of America）。

Good morning. Good morning. Congrats on your results. Thank you for taking my question.

早安。早安。恭喜你們的業績表現。謝謝讓我提問。

Noronha, I would like to focus on that capital slide. You show that your common equity Tier 1 is 11%. You still have 140 basis points to recognize from the Bradsaúde transaction.

Noronha，我想聚焦在那張資本的投影片。你們顯示普通股一級資本比率（CET1）為 11%。你們仍有 140 個基點尚待自 Bradsaúde 交易中認列。

I just want to understand why there is this delay in terms of acknowledging that [140]. What else is missing for you to be able to recognize that?

我想了解為什麼在認列這[140] 個基點方面會有延遲。你們還缺少哪些條件，才能夠認列它？

With that, you will reach 12.7%, Tier 1. You just announced BRL10 billion of capital increase. This will take another 90 basis points of capital. You will get to 13.6%.

如此一來，你將達到 12.7% 的第一級資本（Tier 1）。你們剛宣布了 100 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL）的增資。這將再消耗 90 個基點的資本。你們將達到 13.6%。

I think you've heard some investors being very skeptical about that. Why do you need to have so much capital now?

我想你也聽到一些投資人對此非常懷疑。為什麼你們現在需要這麼多資本？

I think the best thing would be for investors to hear straight from you why, in your opinion, you think that the bank would need such a high level of common equity at this point.

我認為最好的方式，是讓投資人直接聽你說明：依你之見，為什麼銀行在這個時間點需要如此高水準的普通股權資本。

Well, Mario, thank you so much for joining us. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for the question; and the opportunity to talk to investors and all of you analysts about this topic.

Mario，非常感謝你加入我們。很高興與你交流。也謝謝你的提問，以及讓我們有機會就這個主題與投資人及各位分析師溝通。

First of all, let me expand this view: We do believe that strong capital is always very healthy for a banking organization.

首先，讓我延伸一下這個觀點：我們確實相信，對一家銀行機構而言，強健的資本永遠是非常健康的。

We should look at a benchmark because, when we talked to the Board -- we talked about that with the Board. Trabuco even drew our attention to that point.

我們應該看一個基準，因為當我們與董事會討論時——我們確實與董事會談過這件事。Trabuco 甚至提醒我們注意這一點。

We look at JP Morgan. JP Morgan has about 15% of common equity, if I am not mistaken. Having a strong common equity is a positive thing.

我們看摩根大通（JP Morgan）。如果我沒記錯，摩根大通的普通股權大約是 15%。擁有強健的普通股權是一件正面的事。

We were questioned about that. We had a very strict capital discipline because, when we provide more collateralized credit, you can allocate your capital better -- the risk-adjusted return.

我們也被問到這點。我們一直有非常嚴格的資本紀律，因為當我們提供更多有擔保的授信時，你可以更好地配置資本——也就是風險調整後報酬。

We already recognized part of the capital from Bradsaúde. That difference has to do with the process -- P&L delivery -- because there is a timing. That was something very recent. We are just waiting for the green light from the regulators.

我們已經確認了 Bradsaúde 的一部分資本。這個差異與流程有關——損益（P&L）的入帳——因為存在時間差。那是非常近期的事情。我們只是在等待監管機關的核准。

The other issue related to capital increase, that was a decision from shareholders -- controlling shareholders -- that are very capitalized. They look at the bank. They looked at our organization, as a whole, with returns above the cost of capital.

另一個與增資相關的議題，是股東——控股股東——所做的決定，他們本身資本非常充足。他們看的是銀行。他們從整體角度看我們的組織，認為我們的報酬高於資本成本。

You have that cash invested at the ongoing interest rate. They saw an opportunity, not only to buy shares, because they believed that this could strengthen the franchise.

你把那筆現金以當前利率投資著。他們看到了機會，不只是買股票，因為他們相信這能強化特許經營（franchise）。

This is just a testimony of confidence in the company. They trust the company. They trust the administration everything else the management is doing throughout its transformation plan.

這只是對公司信心的證明。他們信任公司。他們信任管理層，以及管理團隊在轉型計畫中所做的一切。

That's why we decided to anchor, at least, BRL8 billion out of the BRL10 billion. Having common equity above [13], it's not a sin, with all due respect to other organizations that follow different policies.

因此我們決定至少承諾（anchor）100 億巴西雷亞爾中的 80 億巴西雷亞爾。普通股權資本高於 [13]%，恕我直言，這並不是罪過；其他機構採取不同政策也無可厚非。

We certainly have to look at your current moment. We are going through a very strong transformation phase. We see the possibility of giving bigger steps in this delivery process.

我們當然必須看你們目前所處的階段。我們正處於非常強烈的轉型期。我們看到在交付（delivery）過程中邁出更大步伐的可能性。

Maybe, in the future, things might be different. But, right now, this is what gives us resilience. It shows that the controlling shareholders really trust this management and this company.

也許未來情況會不同。但就目前而言，這是讓我們具備韌性的因素。這也顯示控股股東確實信任這個管理團隊與這家公司。

Thank you for your question. I think Cassiano has something to it.

謝謝你的提問。我想 Cassiano 也想補充。

We've been talking a lot to the market. We are talking about tangible capital. I think we have to bear in mind the concept of tangible capital.

我們一直與市場做了很多溝通。我們談的是有形資本（tangible capital）。我認為我們必須牢記有形資本這個概念。

These BRL10 billion, they are straightly related to tangible capital. It also opens other possibilities. It's a much more robust bank.

這 100 億巴西雷亞爾與有形資本是直接相關的。它也開啟了其他可能性。銀行會更為穩健。

We can work better with our own working capital -- tangible capital. This gives us more comfort to work with other macroeconomic scenarios. We can also leverage our business.

我們可以更好地運用自有營運資金——也就是有形資本。這讓我們在面對其他總體經濟情境時更安心。我們也可以提高業務槓桿。

Therefore, we bring additional comfort to the bank with this trust from controlling shareholders because they were up to -- come up with up to BRL8 billion.

因此，控股股東願意投入——最高可達 80 億巴西雷亞爾——這份信任為銀行帶來額外的安心感。

You can only do that in the financial world. We can do that through capital raised. We decided to anticipate IoC so that shareholders could strike a financial balance close to what is being suggested in terms of capital raised.

在金融世界裡，你只能用這種方式做到。我們可以透過募資來做到。我們決定提前發放 IoC，讓股東能在財務上取得與所建議的募資規模相近的平衡。

We are comfortable with this level of common equity because, then, we can control our tangible capital versus DTA and versus the consumption of that. Therefore, I think that this is what embodies this capital increase.

我們對這個普通股權水準感到安心，因為如此一來，我們可以控管有形資本相對於 DTA（遞延所得稅資產）以及其消耗情況。因此，我認為這就是這次增資所體現的核心。

Your question is important. Cassiano highlighted -- I mentioned that during my presentation -- tangible capital, we look at it with a magnifying lens.

你的問題很重要。Cassiano 強調——我在簡報中也提到——我們用放大鏡來看有形資本。

We look at that all the time. We monitor it constantly. We look at tax credits. We also discuss that with our Board Members.

我們一直都在看這件事。我們持續監控。我們也關注稅務抵減（tax credits）。我們也會與董事會成員討論。

What the Executive Board asks the Board says that the reason why we released that before the result, instead of releasing it today, is for a very simple reason:

執行董事會向董事會提出的說法是：我們之所以在公布業績之前就發布，而不是今天才發布，原因非常簡單：

On the 29, we had a Board meeting -- as you know, the ordinary meeting -- when we took that subject for approval because we have to disclose it to the market.

在 29 日，我們召開了董事會會議——如你所知，是例行會議——我們把這個議題提交審議，因為我們必須向市場揭露。

Because, on the 31, we also had the payment of another IoC. There are some shareholders that have been with us for a long time -- individuals, companies, family holding organizations. We also have institutional investors.

因為在 31 日，我們也支付了另一筆 IoC。有些股東長期與我們同行——個人、公司、家族控股公司。我們也有機構投資人。

Many of them, they talk to us all the time. They approach our IR. They also invest in other portfolios. If we had paid and if we had disclosed it today or released it today, they could have been telling us that, if I am a long-term investor, probably, I would have to come up with some money to help increase capital.

他們之中很多人一直都會與我們溝通。他們會聯繫我們的投資人關係（IR）。他們也投資於其他投資組合。如果我們先支付、而今天才揭露或今天才發布，他們可能會跟我們說：如果我是長期投資人，我可能就得拿出一些資金來協助增資。

We were concerned about these shareholders.

我們對這些股東有所顧慮。

Thank you, Marcelo. Thank you, Mario.

謝謝你，Marcelo。謝謝你，Mario。

We have a stronger P&L, better outlook in our revenue, with better tangible capital.

我們的損益（P&L）更強勁、營收展望更好，同時有形資本也更佳。

Navarro, Santander Bank.

Navarro，Santander 銀行。

Thank you. Thank you, all. Thank you for the chance of asking questions. My question -- in fact, it's a request.

謝謝。謝謝各位。謝謝讓我有機會提問。我的問題——其實是一個請求。

I want to hear Noronha and Bradesco to tell me more about your experience because, maybe, you can help me shed a light on what could happen to the credit landscape this year and next year.

我想聽 Noronha 和 Bradesco 多談談你們的經驗，因為也許你們能幫我釐清今年與明年信貸環境可能會如何發展。

There is an ongoing debate saying that this challenging credit scenario is not a cyclical one but, rather, structural; meaning that it will remain challenging until the end of 2026 and, also, into 2027.

目前有一個持續的辯論認為，這個充滿挑戰的信貸情境不是週期性的，而是結構性的；也就是說，挑戰將持續到 2026 年底，並延伸到 2027 年。

In the case of Bradesco, naturally, we know that the bank has a more segmented profile. Individuals' income is slightly lower.

以 Bradesco 而言，當然我們知道這家銀行的客群輪廓更為分眾。個人客戶的收入水準略低一些。

How do you see Bradesco in this current scenario that, structurally, could be even more challenging? Meaning, as analysts, should we start thinking about slightly higher cost of risk?

在這種結構上可能更具挑戰的情境下，你怎麼看 Bradesco 目前的處境？也就是說，作為分析師，我們是否應該開始考慮略高的風險成本（cost of risk）？

Getting into 2027, should we think about a lower growth of the portfolio? Or maybe I'll start thinking about reducing it lower?

進入 2027 年時，我們是否應該預期投資組合成長較低？或者我甚至應該開始思考把它下修得更低？

This would decrease my possibility of doing cross-selling. The portfolio would decrease. The fee income of banking services will be down, as well.

這會降低我進行交叉銷售的可能性。投資組合會縮小。銀行服務的手續費收入也會下降。

Help me understand what we should expect, going forward -- or whether we should start making adjustments for the numbers for 2027.

請幫我理解，往後我們應該預期什麼——或者我們是否應該開始為 2027 年的數字做調整。

Navarro, thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. I will mention a few factors: I think that the average market or household-income commitment is such -- and with the ongoing interest rates -- yesterday, there was a drop in the Selic rate from 14.25% to 14%.

Navarro，謝謝你加入我們。和你交流總是很愉快。我會提到幾個因素：我認為平均市場或家庭收入的承諾是這樣——再加上目前的利率——昨天 Selic 利率從 14.25% 降到 14%。

By looking at the inflation indicators, if you look at [IPC] numbers, I can say to you that the landscape is a lot more challenging, when you look at the Brazilian credit scenario.

從通膨指標來看，如果你看 [IPC] 的數據，我可以告訴你，當你看巴西的信貸情境時，環境要艱難得多。

If the EBITDA of companies is lower, it is, therefore, pressured by this interest rate because, if the duration was short, the effect could have been different. But this is a fact. This is a reality.

如果企業的 EBITDA 較低，就會因此受到這個利率的擠壓，因為如果存續期間較短，影響可能會不同。但這是事實。這就是現實。

But, if you'll allow me, I would say to you that, when you look at SMEs at Bradesco, the way you look at it, it's not the correct way to look at it. That's why I opened all the numbers.

不過，如果你允許我說，我會告訴你，當你看 Bradesco 的中小企業（SMEs）時，你的看法並不是正確的看法。這就是為什麼我把所有數字都攤開來。

Our SME growth year over year was BRL37 billion. BRL31 billion out of that came from FGO and FGI within that stop-loss. The level of loss is minimal. That's one thing.

我們的中小企業業務年增為 370 億雷亞爾。其中 310 億雷亞爾來自 FGO 和 FGI，且在該止損機制之內。損失水準極低。這是一點。

Where does the rest come from? The Empresário Plan that we do: middle-market corporate and companies, with good developers. The level of formality is different.

其餘的成長來自哪裡？我們所做的 Empresário Plan：中型市場企業與公司，搭配優質的開發商。其正式化程度不同。

I'll say to you that our appetite for lower-income clients is much lower, when compared to the past. When you look at -- the portfolio mix, let me give you one piece of information:

我可以告訴你，與過去相比，我們對低收入客戶的偏好低得多。當你看——投資組合的組成，我給你一個資訊：

The clean individual -- personal loan portfolio in all segments, back in 2023, it accounted for slightly above 15% of our individual's loan portfolio. Today, it accounts for approximately [12%].

在 2023 年，所有客群的無擔保個人——個人貸款組合，占我們個人貸款組合的比例略高於 15%。今天，大約占[12%]。

But how come 12%? Well, first of all, we have personal loans. Even in the private segment, the rating is totally different. The structure is different. It's not for all. This is just one example I'm giving you. The mix is totally different.

但為什麼是 12%？首先，我們有個人貸款。即使在私人銀行客群，評級也完全不同。結構也不同。不是人人都適用。我只是給你一個例子。組合完全不同。

The FGI, FGO total portfolio is close to BRL80 billion, with a very robust growth. We are well-tractioned. It's a very resilient portfolio.

FGI、FGO 的總投資組合接近 800 億雷亞爾，成長非常強勁。我們動能很強。這是一個非常具韌性的投資組合。

But then, what happens when you look at NPL over 90 and cost of risk? Cost of risk increases, when you are growing with FGO and FGI due to that guarantee-claim period.

但接著，當你看 90 天以上不良貸款（NPL）與風險成本時會發生什麼？當你透過 FGO 和 FGI 成長時，由於擔保理賠期間，風險成本會上升。

As I said, it goes from 120 until 185 days. You call for provisions of that client that went through the grace period and our peak of production that went from March of last year to October of last year.

如我所說，期間從 120 天到 185 天不等。你會對已過寬限期的客戶提列備抵，而我們的放款高峰期是從去年 3 月到去年 10 月。

And then, we were number 1 in origination. Therefore, we have maturities there. This puts pressure on the cost of risk.

而且當時我們在承作（origination）方面排名第一。因此，那些部位會到期。這會對風險成本造成壓力。

What else could put pressure on the cost of risk? Rural or agribusiness through consolidation of the John Deere Bank.

還有什麼會對風險成本造成壓力？農村或農業綜合企業（agribusiness），透過併入 John Deere Bank。

If I grow the portfolio, which is the third variable, I also put pressure in the cost of risk at a certain measure. But I look at top line and risk-adjusted return. I put the return that is due to that credit showing traction.

如果我擴大投資組合——這是第三個變數——在一定程度上也會對風險成本造成壓力。但我看的是營收（top line）與風險調整後報酬。我把因信貸動能而應得的報酬納入考量。

A lot of people asked me, first time I came here, said, if you lose clients, you would not be able to have any traction. But we are showing a lot of traction with payroll loans, SMEs.

很多人問我，我第一次來這裡時說，如果你流失客戶，你就不可能有任何動能。但我們在薪資扣繳貸款（payroll loans）、中小企業方面展現了很強的動能。

Our SME is collateralized; is secured. We are not granting credit in that intermediary line. We are well collateralized -- much more than in the past.

我們的中小企業貸款是有擔保品的；是有抵押的。我們不在那條中間層級的產品線上放款。我們的擔保非常充足——比過去充足得多。

The corporate portfolio was up by BRL70 billion from the wholesale bank, as well, with secured lines; good ratings; and the BRL37 billion, as I said, from SMEs.

公司業務投資組合也增加了 700 億雷亞爾，來自批發銀行，同樣是有擔保的產品線；良好的評級；以及如我所說，中小企業貢獻的 370 億雷亞爾。

Therefore, I see that we will continue to grow, moving towards the guidance because our wholesale portfolio fluctuates because most of what we do, in terms of securities, goes to origination for distribution.

因此，我認為我們會持續成長，朝向指引（guidance）前進，因為我們的批發投資組合會波動，因為我們在證券方面做的大多數業務，都是為了「承作後分銷」（origination for distribution）。

We distribute in the secondary market. There are moments that we are up and moments where we are down. But we grow in other lines.

我們在次級市場分銷。有些時候我們上升，有些時候我們下降。但我們在其他產品線成長。

As I said, we also finance aircraft. Our portfolio was up by BRL1.5 billion in this period. There was a large corporate client in from other segments from the wholesale bank.

如我所說，我們也為飛機融資。在這段期間，我們的投資組合增加了 15 億雷亞爾。其中有一位大型企業客戶，來自批發銀行的其他業務板塊。

I'll tell you now that the market has its own risk. We also look at another indicator that was NPL [overnighting] for private payroll loan without Bradesco -- 8.9% versus 4.5% -- since we started doing that in a moderate way until we had all of the [Dataprev] model well in place.

我現在告訴你，市場有其自身的風險。我們也看另一個指標，也就是私人薪資扣繳貸款在未含 Bradesco 的 NPL [overnighting]——8.9% 對 4.5%——自從我們以較溫和的方式開始做，直到把整個 [Dataprev] 模型完善落地為止。

Because we have to do that fine-tuning. We are very careful in terms of managing our portfolio. But It's obvious that when we grow the portfolio -- when this thing about FGO and FGI and the agribusiness line and John Deere consolidation will bring cost of risk to a slightly higher level.

因為我們必須做那個微調。在投資組合管理方面，我們非常謹慎。但很明顯，當我們擴大投資組合——關於 FGO 和 FGI、農業綜合企業產品線以及 John Deere 併表，會使風險成本提高到略高的水準。

But we are operating with no additional stresses, in my view, for the year 2026. Thank you.

但在我看來，2026 年我們是在沒有額外壓力的情況下運作。謝謝。

Thank you, Navarro.

謝謝你，Navarro。

If you want to think forwards, look at our guidance. We work from the center of the guidance upwards.

如果你想往前看，就看我們的指引（guidance）。我們從指引的中位數往上努力。

Thiago Batista, UBS.

Thiago Batista，UBS。

Hello, everyone. Good morning, Cassiano and Andre.

各位好。早安，Cassiano 和 Andre。

My question is about return. The [ROI] achieved is 16%. You can discuss the cost of capital in Brazil. It's around 15%, 16%. We can say that Bradesco or your management delivered [ROI] that was good.

我的問題是關於報酬。達成的 [ROI] 是 16%。你可以談談巴西的資本成本。大約是 15%、16%。我們可以說 Bradesco 或你們的管理層交出的 [ROI] 是不錯的。

In the future -- the next steps -- could we believe that the ROI continues to grow, step by step? Where do you see the levers for this additional growth?

未來——下一步——我們是否可以相信 ROI 會一步一步持續成長？你認為推動這個額外成長的槓桿在哪裡？

Just to follow up in terms of capital: After the capitalization, Bradesco will pay more and only that? Or will it be capitalized, more recurrent? What will be the policy of distribution after this capitalization?

另外追問資本方面：在完成資本化之後，Bradesco 會多配發，且僅此一次嗎？還是會更常態性地進行資本化？這次資本化之後的配發政策會是什麼？

Let me start by the end. Thank you, Thiago, for your participation; and for being here with us; and an opportunity to talk to you.

我先從最後一點開始。Thiago，謝謝你的參與；也謝謝你今天在這裡與我們同在；並給我們一個和你交流的機會。

In relation to the capitalization, we will pay the most we can, yes, of IoE. This had to do with our controller decision. At this moment, we don't have any other plan that is on the desk; on the table. For the future, we have to look at the dynamics, looking forward.

關於資本化，我們會盡可能支付最高的金額，是的，針對 IoE。這與我們的控管決策有關。目前，我們沒有任何其他計畫在案上；在桌面上。展望未來，我們必須觀察動態，向前看。

In relation to the ROE, our cost of capital is below 15% today. I would say that, after yesterday, it's coming close to 14.5% with the new Selic rate.

關於 ROE，我們目前的資本成本低於 15%。我會說，在昨天之後，隨著新的 Selic 利率，它已接近 14.5%。

Yes. I do see an ROE that continues to grow. Obviously, when we capitalize, there's a greater challenge in relation to the ROE because you increase capital. You have to have greater returns.

是的。我確實看到 ROE 持續成長。顯然，當我們進行資本化時，ROE 會面臨更大的挑戰，因為你增加了資本。你必須有更高的報酬。

But we do believe that we are continuing in our step by step; growing every quarter. Thiago, this is our horizon: a horizon with this deep belief.

但我們確實相信，我們正持續一步一步前進；每一季都在成長。Thiago，這就是我們的視野：帶著這份深刻信念的視野。

It's not a belief. It's not just faith. It's having your feet on the ground with a plan; with the transformation we've been doing, gaining in productivity, as you've seen with our KPIs; with the portfolio management; and with a very engaged team, nationwide, with over 70,000 employees in our organization.

這不是信念。不只是信仰。而是腳踏實地、有計畫；配合我們正在推動的轉型、提升生產力——正如你從我們的 KPI 所看到的；透過投資組合管理；以及一支高度投入的團隊，在全國範圍內，我們組織有超過 70,000 名員工。

Thank you, Thiago.

謝謝你，Thiago。

Thank you, Thiago.

謝謝你，Thiago。

Gustavo Schroden, Citibank.

Gustavo Schroden，花旗銀行。

Good morning. Thank you, Andre, Noronha, Cassiano. Congratulations for the ROI and the cost of capital coming back.

早安。謝謝你，Andre、Noronha、Cassiano。恭喜你們的 ROI 以及資本成本回升。

I would like to talk about NII. Noronha mentioned that at the beginning -- that this is strong with clients. But the market NII, let's say, has been surprising, even for us.

我想談談 NII。Noronha 一開始提到——這在客戶端表現強勁。但市場端的 NII，可以說，一直讓人驚喜，甚至對我們也是。

I would like to better understand how we can think of this market NII from now onwards. There was a change in the perspective of interest rates.

我想更了解，從現在開始我們該如何看待這個市場端 NII。利率前景已經出現變化。

What is the hedge policy of the bank, in relation to portfolios? What goes to the market NII? If you could give us a little bit of help of how to think about the NII from now onwards, that would be great. Thank you.

銀行在投資組合方面的避險政策是什麼？哪些會進到市場端 NII？如果你們能稍微協助我們理解從現在起如何看待 NII，那就太好了。謝謝。

Gustavo, it's great to see you once again. Thanks for joining us. I'm going to ask Cassiano to start answering, and then I'm going to add any comments.

Gustavo，很高興再次見到你。謝謝你加入我們。我會請 Cassiano 先開始回答，之後我再補充任何評論。

Good morning, Gustavo. The market NII was surprising. I think it's important to say. But Noronha was very clear. It was very important work from the treasury area and from all the desks. The commercial traction of the bank helps also a part of the desk, which is the commercial desk, the client one, which is perennial, and this has also brought good results. I think that's an important KPI. The energy desk is within this concept as a whole.

早安，Gustavo。市場端 NII 的確令人驚訝。我認為這點很重要。但 Noronha 說得很清楚。這是財資部門以及所有交易台非常重要的工作成果。銀行的商業動能也幫助了交易台的一部分，也就是商業交易台、客戶端那一塊，這是長期且可持續的，也帶來了良好成果。我認為那是一個重要的 KPI。能源交易台也包含在這個整體概念之內。

But another important point is the consistent work we've been doing also. We don't have a hedge policy that is defined, and we've talked about that for some time. We do obviously the work in our daily work, seeking opportunities to capture the best possible result if there is some kind of uncoupling in the bank.

但另一個重要點是我們一直在做的持續性工作。我們沒有一個明確定義的避險政策，我們也談這件事談了一段時間。當然，我們在日常工作中會尋找機會，在銀行出現某種錯配時，盡可能捕捉最佳結果。

This is an important result. We had many important cases of having a specific LM policy, which is a slower cycle of what we expected in relation to a drop in the interest rate. The commercial and the client side, which has a traction in the wholesale and all the operations for the key accounts and also metal energy. These are structuring things that in the long term leaves us at a more comfortable position in market NII.

這是一個重要的成果。我們有許多重要案例，採取特定的 LM 政策，也就是相較於我們原先預期利率下行而言更慢的週期。商業端與客戶端在批發銀行、關鍵客戶的各項作業，以及金屬與能源方面都有動能。這些是結構性的因素，長期而言讓我們在市場端 NII 上處於更舒適的位置。

We also achieved the soft guidance. I think it's important to say that. We believe that it will be slightly ahead, surpassing a little bit the soft guidance. I think you should look at this horizon as the 1.5, 1.9. There's still some opportunities. So we are very satisfied and comfortable with the LM and also the commercial traction in terms of energy. The trading, the exploratory one, specific one, is smaller in our ecosystem in the results of treasury.

我們也達成了 soft guidance。我認為這點很重要。我們相信結果會略微超前，稍微超過 soft guidance。我認為你應該把這個視野看作 1.5 到 1.9。仍然還有一些機會。所以我們對 LM 以及在能源方面的商業動能都非常滿意且有信心。交易型、探索型、特定型的部分，在我們的生態系中、在財資結果裡占比更小。

I would like to add the following. We have a good risk management. We have teams, not only one team. We have very competent teams that are working very well, and this is the best answer I have. But with great business traction and helping and supporting our clients and all the transactions Cassiano mentioned of the wholesale bank, of middle market, all that has generated great businesses for us.

我想補充如下。我們有良好的風險管理。我們有團隊，不只是一個團隊。我們有非常有能力的團隊，運作得非常好，這就是我能給的最佳回答。同時，憑藉強勁的業務動能，協助並支持我們的客戶，以及 Cassiano 提到的批發銀行、中型市場的所有交易，都為我們帶來了很好的業務。

Today we can think that that soft guidance was left behind because we have larger figures coming close to BRL2 billion. I think that's kind of reasonable. That's my horizon. Considering the team we have and everything we've been doing. Thank you.

今天我們可以認為，那個 soft guidance 已經被拋在後面，因為我們的數字更大，接近 20 億巴西雷亞爾。我認為這算是合理的。這就是我的視野。考量我們的團隊以及我們一直在做的一切。謝謝。

Meaning the result is here to stay. It might be up from now on. Next question from Safra.

也就是說，這個結果會持續存在。從現在起可能還會上升。下一題，Safra。

Good morning, Andre, Cassiano. Congrats on your results and congrats on your initiatives in a direction of capital management. I would like to revisit NIM and cost of risk when it comes to risk-adjusted return that you call RAR, when you think about your exposure, your guarantees. But if you isolate these two variables, NIM and cost of risk, I think you have liability margins going down due to the average Selic rate.

早安，Andre、Cassiano。恭喜你們的業績，也恭喜你們在資本管理方向上的各項舉措。我想回到你們所稱的 RAR（風險調整後報酬）框架下的 NIM 與風險成本，當你們思考曝險與擔保品時。但如果把這兩個變數——NIM 與風險成本——單獨拿出來看，我認為因為平均 Selic 利率的關係，你們的負債端利差正在下滑。

And since your exposure, in addition to guarantees, I don't see any increment of NIM, but I see further stability. There is another driver that could put pressure upwards, has to do with the worsening of the stages. We look at what Noronha said, 20 basis points coming from John Deere and other companies that have some guarantee claims, and 10 basis points from stage three on the wholesale side.

而且就你們的曝險而言，除了擔保品之外，我看不到 NIM 有任何提升，但我看到的是進一步的穩定。另一個可能帶來上行壓力的驅動因素，與分期（stages）惡化有關。我們看 Noronha 說的，有 20 個基點來自 John Deere 以及其他有一些擔保索賠的公司，還有 10 個基點來自批發端的第三期（stage three）。

I would like to understand, also related to cost of risk, if you think that that 3.5 level could be increased because of the macro risk. Not necessarily means that you're taking more risk, but the macro scenario is a bit more challenging. My first take is that maybe NIM should be lower and that there will be more pressure, and with cost of risk will be the opposite. How can you help me think about this equation?

我也想了解，與風險成本相關，你們是否認為 3.5 這個水準可能因為總體風險而上升。這不一定表示你們承擔更多風險，但宏觀情境確實更具挑戰。我第一個直覺是，也許 NIM 應該更低、壓力會更大，而風險成本則相反。你們能如何幫我思考這個方程式？

Well, first, Daniel, thank you so much for joining us. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. But again, I will ask my colleagues to add something after my answer. A lower Selic is positive. It's positive for us. Our liability growth was significant, and it's being translated into cash management and more relationships.

嗯，首先，Daniel，非常感謝你加入我們。和你交流總是很愉快。不過我會再次請我的同事在我回答之後補充。較低的 Selic 是正面的。對我們是正面的。我們的負債成長相當顯著，而這正在轉化為現金管理以及更多的往來關係。

In turn, in the past two years, I think we only had one particular moment when the funding cost reached that level. The all-time low of our funding cost, and this helped our NII. When I look at the cost of risk, you're right. The market is worsening, and I showed some market indicators like private payroll loan, and we have half of NPL over 90. There are other people operating at higher risk.

反過來說，在過去兩年裡，我認為我們只有在某一個特定時點，資金成本才達到那個水準。我們資金成本的歷史低點，而這也幫助了我們的淨利息收入（NII）。當我看風險成本時，你說得對。市場正在惡化，我也展示了一些市場指標，例如私人薪資貸款，而我們有一半的不良貸款（NPL）逾期超過90天。還有其他人在更高風險下經營。

Less so incumbent banks when compared to other banks. That's my feeling. We have other effects of higher pressure that are linked to this structural aspect, and I talked about agribusiness. FGI and FGO. For me, this is a phenomenon, but it's only a timely one.

相較於其他銀行，既有銀行的情況沒那麼嚴重。這是我的感覺。我們還有其他與這個結構性面向相關、壓力更大的影響，我也談到了農業綜合企業。FGI 與 FGO。對我而言，這是一種現象，但只是階段性的。

We are growing and this continues to happen, but we will see this curve come down, and so after some time it will be flat. Therefore, I'm very confident in our NII. I am very confident with our NIM and in this whole picture, because, Daniel, I will repeat what I said before. It's not just one line, because when we look at the financial revenue, we are looking at client NII, market NII, and client NII. It's not only asset, but also liabilities.

我們正在成長，這種情況仍會持續發生，但我們會看到這條曲線下來，過一段時間後就會趨於平坦。因此，我對我們的淨利息收入（NII）非常有信心。我對我們的淨利差（NIM）以及整體圖景都非常有信心，因為，Daniel，我會重申我之前說過的。這不只是單一一條線，因為當我們看金融收入時，我們看的是客戶端NII、市場端NII，以及客戶端NII。不僅是資產端，也包括負債端。

When we look at fee and commissions income that maybe had a relative lower growth, we are believing in this higher growth. There are many lines because, as I said, if you look at the entire release, there are nine lines. But when you break it down, there are at least 15 lines, and they are quite diversified.

當我們看手續費與佣金收入，可能相對成長較低時，我們相信它會有更高的成長。有很多條線，因為如我所說，如果你看整份發布資料，有九條線。但當你把它拆開來看，至少有15條線，而且相當多元分散。

In addition to the insurance group, we have the payment companies, meaning that there are many growth levers, especially with cross-selling. My colleagues talk about cross-selling, and this is something that is becoming a reality. There is one piece of data that I talked to journalists earlier on. In this new experience of different instruments, they were not a lever for us until we drew up a very good diagnosis of the market, and we totally changed our platform because we had two platforms, one for dealers and one for our clients.

除了保險集團之外，我們還有支付公司，也就是說有很多成長槓桿，尤其是透過交叉銷售。我的同事們談到交叉銷售，而這正在成為現實。我先前也跟記者談過一個數據。在這種不同工具的新體驗中，在我們對市場做出非常好的診斷之前，它們並不是我們的槓桿；而我們也徹底改變了平台，因為我們原本有兩個平台，一個給經銷商，一個給客戶。

Now, we integrated everything. We had efficiency gains. We had commercial improvements. We increased UX dealer experience as well with pricing control to ensure RAR. We also gained competitiveness in the market. We embarked in this UX. Also, we included the possibility of hiring auto insurance. It's very simple. It's a great experience. We are increasing penetration in this life.

現在，我們把所有東西整合在一起。我們獲得了效率提升。我們也有商業面的改善。我們也提升了經銷商端的使用者體驗（UX），並透過定價控管以確保風險調整後報酬（RAR）。我們也提升了市場競爭力。我們投入在這個UX上。此外，我們也納入了可投保汽車保險的功能。非常簡單。體驗非常好。我們正在提高在這條業務上的滲透率。

But when I look at our network of individuals, what we distribute through these segments in the Q1 vis-a-vis the entire last year, we grew about 100% because we delivered what we did last year with a possibility of cross-selling when we deliver good experience and connections. I have good expectations in different fronts regardless of the macro environment and the fact that it is much more restricted. Please feel free to add your comments.

但當我看我們的個人客群網絡時，就我們在第一季透過這些分群所分銷的量，相較於去年全年，我們約成長了100%，因為我們交付了去年所做的成果，並在提供良好體驗與連結時帶來交叉銷售的可能性。不論總體環境以及其更為受限的事實，我在不同面向上都有很好的期待。也請隨時補充你的意見。

Marcelo, you talked about the fact that transformation is giving us more resilience and the cost of liability is down in the Q2, funding was up by 19% quarter-on-quarter. I mean, vis-a-vis 2025. We are having more net money. We are seeing the results stemming from this new value proposition, larger margin with lower cost of funding. We said at the beginning of the year that NIM would be flat at 9% this year. We delivered 9.1% first quarter and second quarter. It should be close to that range throughout the year. This will be very good for NIM.

Marcelo，你提到轉型讓我們更具韌性，且第二季負債成本下降，而資金（funding）則季增19%。也就是相較於2025年。我們的淨流入資金更多。我們看到這個新價值主張帶來的成果：在較低資金成本下取得更高利差。我們在年初說過，今年淨利差（NIM）會在9%持平。我們第一季與第二季都交出了9.1%。全年應該會接近這個區間。這對NIM會非常好。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

Yuri Fernandes，摩根大通（JPMorgan）。

Thank you. Good morning. Good morning, Noronha, Cassiano, and Andre. I'd like to congratulate the Board for this very bold decision, and rightly so, because in the mid to long-range, tangible capital is a good path forward. I just have a very quick follow-ups about FGI and FGO. I know you have the guaranteed claim. Stage two was impacted by that, and there is a time difference until you collect. I mean, do we see provisioning on stage three? Is there a carryover into stage three?

謝謝。早安。早安，Noronha、Cassiano 和 Andre。我想祝賀董事會做出這個非常大膽的決定，而且是正確的，因為從中長期來看，有形資本是一條很好的前進道路。我有兩個關於FGI和FGO的快速追問。我知道你們有保證理賠。第二階段（stage two）因此受到影響，而在你們收回款項之前存在時間差。我的意思是，我們會在第三階段（stage three）看到提存嗎？會延伸到第三階段嗎？

The other question is on current account, there is another competitor being very vocal in cutting tariffs or fees in checking account. There was a 3% drop year-over-year, but this competitor of yours is cutting it to almost 20. Do you see any pressure to accelerate the cut of this fee line, or it's just a fine-tuning like you've been doing? I just want to see what you are doing in this regard. It will help us understand your strategy.

另一個問題是關於活期帳戶（current account），有另一家競爭對手非常高調地在削減支票帳戶的費率或費用。你們年對年下降了3%，但你們這位競爭對手把降幅做到接近20%。你們是否看到需要加速下調這條費用線的壓力，還是只是像你們一直在做的那樣微調？我只是想了解你們在這方面的作法。這將有助於我們理解你們的策略。

Yuri, it's always a pleasure to talk to you again. You've been provoking us for quite some time about that topic. You even wrote that in your report. You also influence the controlling shareholders and colleagues of ours that are in the Board of the bank, and we discuss all that. You and some other colleagues mention capital in your analysis.

Yuri，再次和你交流總是很愉快。你在這個議題上挑戰我們已經有一段時間了。你甚至在你的報告裡也寫了這點。你也影響了控股股東以及我們在銀行董事會裡的同事，我們也會討論這些。你和其他一些同業在分析中都提到了資本。

I read what you wrote, and I know that you wrote something about that, and it is correct. I have always told you that that was a very positive contribution and provocation. I will ask my colleagues to help me with that answer.

我讀了你寫的內容，我知道你對此寫了一些看法，而且是正確的。我一直告訴你，那是非常正面的貢獻與激勵。我會請同事協助我回答這個問題。

But FGI and FGO, it may spill over to stage three. That is a possibility, but you recover that. Sometimes you think, well, I will not collect for some time, but no, because we get paid every month. If that 120-day period is over, then you have the maturity of someone else's period because the grace period of that other person is over. There is a flow. It is in and out. There is a dynamic of different stages, of in and out. Wholesale bank, I mean, this is public. The dynamic was securities and a piece of derivatives, and you brought that straight to stage three.

至於FGI和FGO，確實可能會延伸到第三階段（stage three）。這是一種可能性，但你們會把它收回來。有時你會想，嗯，我可能一段時間收不到，但其實不會，因為我們每個月都會收到款項。如果那個120天的期間結束，那麼你就會進入另一個人的到期期間，因為那個人的寬限期已經結束。這裡有一個現金流。有進有出。不同階段之間有進出流動的動態。批發銀行方面，我的意思是，這是公開資訊。其動態是證券以及一部分衍生性商品，而你把它直接帶到第三階段。

That could affect, yes. We are within the guarantee period and very comfortable in terms of what we are doing. Andre Duarte and his team and portfolio management team, they are looking at that constantly. They do stop-loss scenarios, stress scenarios. We are very confident in terms of what we are delivering.

那確實可能造成影響，是的。我們仍在保證期間內，對於我們正在做的事情也非常放心。Andre Duarte和他的團隊，以及投組管理團隊，都在持續密切關注。他們會做停損情境、壓力情境。我們對於目前交付的成果非常有信心。

In terms of current account fees, that is a fact, and we talked about that. The trend is not to grow, but much to the contrary. There is another aspect which is Bradesco Expresso. It has been posting continuous growth. Eventually, you may see a more significant growth, as we did with the number of account holders.

至於活期帳戶費用，這確實是事實，我們也談過。趨勢不是成長，而是恰恰相反。另外還有一個面向是 Bradesco Expresso。它一直呈現持續成長。最終你可能會看到更顯著的成長，就像我們在帳戶持有人數上所做的一樣。

There is also seasonality of account fee periods, but I do not think that this line can support fee growth. I think that fees will still come from consortium, from asset management, from investment bank. The brokerage firm was really important to us, quite strong. Credit cards that did not grow as much. If you look at a comparison line, we have a lot of companies.

帳戶費用期間也存在季節性，但我不認為這一項能支撐費用成長。我認為費用仍將來自財團貸款、資產管理、投資銀行。券商對我們來說非常重要，實力相當強。信用卡的成長沒有那麼多。如果你看一條比較線，我們有很多公司。

We in Banco do Brasil, we have Elo, Cielo, we have Elo. In the case of Elo, it went through a regulation, and it lost some revenue lines. Even then, the results are quite resilient. We lose a little bit on the fee side, but this will go back to normal. We will see the recovery of these lines over time. But we have a lot of ways to recover in some of the lines.

我們在巴西銀行（Banco do Brasil），我們有 Elo、Cielo，我們有 Elo。就 Elo 而言，它經歷了一項監管，因此失去了一些收入線。即便如此，結果仍相當具韌性。在手續費端我們少了一點，但這會回到正常。隨著時間推移，我們會看到這些線的復甦。但我們有很多方式在某些線上恢復。

But Yuri, thank you again. I think you said it all. There is a mechanism coming from Bradesco Expresso. Current account is also linked to new value propositions for services, not necessarily the traditional banking fees that have been good for us, and this will smooth out the drop in the curve. Our commercial strength is mostly focused on digital retail. That mostly comes from Expresso.

不過 Yuri，再次謝謝你。我想你都說到了。有一個機制來自 Bradesco Expresso。活期帳戶也與服務的新價值主張相連結，不一定是一直對我們很有利的傳統銀行手續費，這將平滑曲線的下滑。我們的商業動能主要聚焦在數位零售。那主要來自 Expresso。

Pedro Leduc, Itau BBA.

Pedro Leduc，Itaú BBA。

Thank you, Andre. Good morning, everyone. Noronha, Cassiano. The question involves the corporate loan portfolio and also securities and DCM. Companies grew 7%, and TVM almost nine securities. The origination is strong. Noronha also put the ranking. We didn't see a correspondence in the line of revenues with financial advisory services. The portfolio grows, but you don't see the revenue in the fee, and also LLP was lower in the corporate area.

謝謝你，Andre。各位早安。Noronha、Cassiano。問題涉及公司貸款組合，以及證券與 DCM（債務資本市場）。公司業務成長 7%，TVM（證券投資組合）接近 9%。承作（origination）很強。Noronha 也提到了排名。我們沒有看到財務顧問服務收入線有相對應的表現。組合在成長，但你在手續費收入上看不到對應的收入，而且公司端的 LLP（貸款損失準備）也較低。

RWA was pulled by the expansion of corporate, but I didn't see a counterpart, and the LLP was a surprise due to the origination. I thought it would be higher. Could you please help us better understand these moving pieces, Noronha, and what we can think about for the second semester?

RWA（風險加權資產）是被公司業務擴張拉動的，但我沒有看到相對應的對價，而 LLP 也因為承作而令人意外。我原本以為會更高。Noronha，能否請你幫我們更好地理解這些變動因素，以及我們對下半年可以怎麼看？

Thank you for joining us. It's great to talk to you. Thank you for your question. LLP was not so lower, BRL400 million, because we still had slight adjustments in a major case I mentioned. But wholesale banks, you might have a specific case that could stress at a specific moment. There is no zero risk.

謝謝你加入我們。很高興和你交流。謝謝你的提問。LLP 並沒有那麼低，約 4 億巴西雷亞爾，因為我們在我提到的一個重大個案上仍有些微調整。但在批發銀行（wholesale banks），你可能會遇到某個特定個案在某個時點造成壓力。沒有零風險。

But we did the provision immediately. We are very precise in relation to that when we see that things are not going adequately, a negotiation that is very well known in the market. The growth of the wholesale bank was, I go back, in securities, and it was in also sureties and guarantees in the Plano Empresario. We were second in the market with this growth of the Plano Empresario. In one or other specific line, for example, we financed more than one M&A with good guarantees, and I mentioned another operation.

但我們立即就提列了準備。當我們看到事情進展不如預期時，我們在這方面非常精準；那是一筆市場上非常知名的協商案。批發銀行的成長，我再說一次，來自證券，也來自 Plano Empresario（企業方案）中的保證與擔保。在 Plano Empresario 的成長方面，我們在市場上排名第二。在某些特定線上，例如，我們以良好擔保融資了不只一筆併購（M&A），我也提到另一筆操作。

I avoid talking about the industry, otherwise it's too specific. It's a net guarantee in terms of provision. We have a good coverage level. In relation to DCM, we have fees because the Q2 last year was very strong in operations. That's why there is this slightly lower variation.

我避免談到產業，否則會太具體。就提列準備而言，這是淨擔保。我們有良好的覆蓋水準。關於 DCM，我們的手續費之所以較低，是因為去年第二季的交易非常強。因此才會出現這個略低的變動。

But the bulk of securities is PD. You will see, Leduc, that they will vary, they will fluctuate unless we have a demand to replace that. We will see this in the secondary market. There was an exit from the secondary market. If I'm not mistaken, we once again reached the bottom of the spreads with more assets in the market, and they balanced, and we reached the bottom, and people labeled some assets. That's the chance of getting greater margin. You don't commit so much capital.

但證券的大宗是 PD。Leduc，你會看到它們會變動、會波動，除非我們有需求去替換它。我們會在次級市場看到這一點。次級市場曾出現退出。如果我沒記錯，我們再次在市場上資產增加的情況下觸及利差底部，之後利差回到平衡並觸底，而人們對某些資產進行了標記。那就是取得更高利潤率的機會。你不需要投入那麼多資本。

In our business model, which is no different from other banks that practice that, our REM and the segment that did that in OPD, they only check the results of that at the end to stimulate that, so that we are going to do this movement in the portfolio. We were leaders in origination, but that's not what we want at the end of the day. We want the risk-adjusted return.

在我們的商業模式中（其他採用這種做法的銀行也差不多），我們的 REM 以及在 OPD 做這件事的部門，只會在最後檢視其結果以作為激勵，讓我們去做投資組合的這種調整。我們在承作上是領先者，但這不是我們最終想要的。我們要的是風險調整後的報酬。

In relation to investment bank or any segment in the wholesale bank, you cannot operate with the RAR that is specified there. I'm going to go from securities to FINAME operations for heavy vehicles. If there is a client that has a strong relationship with us, we don't look just at that type of operation. Why is that? Because you have specific fees, so the RAR could be lower.

就投資銀行或批發銀行中的任何部門而言，你不能用那裡所指定的 RAR 來運作。我可以從證券談到 FINAME 的重型車輛融資操作。如果客戶與我們關係很強，我們不會只看那一類操作。為什麼？因為你有特定的手續費，所以 RAR 可能會較低。

But if you have a client with a high RAR, we look at the combination of that because it's a client that gives me payroll, they have cash with me, they've got a great relationship, especially in the private. We look at the whole relationship. That's logical. I say, okay, I'll do this kind of operation with this client, because it removes the RAR from the client, but it compensates the bank adequately.

但如果你有一個 RAR 很高的客戶，我們會看整體組合，因為這個客戶把薪資代發給我、把現金放在我這裡，關係非常好，尤其是在私人銀行端。我們看的是整體關係。這很合理。我會說，好，我會和這個客戶做這類操作，因為它會拉低該客戶的 RAR，但能對銀行形成足夠的補償。

Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

Eduardo Rosman，BTG。

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. I'd like to go back to the directed credit that you have been focusing a lot on, we've seen other banks also, and also fintechs focusing on the earmarked credits. I would like to better understand the sustainability, not only of the size of the programs, because it was impacting the fiscal part and inflation, and the cost of capital could go down. What should be the return to operate in these plans throughout time? Should we expect some kind of pressure on return from now on due to the increase in interest of the participants?

各位早安。謝謝給我這個機會。我想回到你們一直很聚焦的定向信貸（directed credit）；我們也看到其他銀行以及金融科技公司在聚焦這些指定用途信貸（earmarked credits）。我想更好地理解其可持續性，不僅是計畫規模，因為它一直影響財政面與通膨，而資本成本可能會下降。長期來看，經營這些方案的報酬應該是什麼？由於參與者利率上升，從現在開始我們是否應預期報酬會面臨某種壓力？

Thanks, Rosman. Once again, it's great to meet you here. Thanks for the question. Let me say the following. The bank has, from the very beginning, participated in practically all the lines. We're present in all the five lines of FGI and FGO in a very competitive way. It is natural that it will hit the primary. That's why the resources are finite. This is a huge opportunity, and it has to do with two points or even three points.

謝謝你，Rosman。再次，很高興在這裡見到你。謝謝你的問題。我這樣說。本行從一開始就幾乎參與了所有的產品線。我們以非常具競爭力的方式，參與 FGI 與 FGO 的全部五條產品線。它自然會影響到一級市場。這就是為什麼資源是有限的。這是一個巨大的機會，並且與兩點甚至三點有關。

First of all, it's a long-term line, so it's sustainable with excellent guarantee. RAR, the risk-adjusted return of this operation is very high here. If you talk to other players, they're going to say the same thing. If it is within a stop loss, obviously very well managed. In the long term, so it is sustainable for some time, and you generate cross-selling. You increase the possibility of RAR even more.

首先，這是一條長期產品線，因此在具備極佳擔保的情況下是可持續的。RAR（風險調整後報酬）——這筆操作的風險調整後報酬在這裡非常高。如果你去問其他參與者，他們也會說同樣的話。當然，前提是在止損（stop loss）範圍內，而且管理得非常好。從長期來看，它可以在一段時間內持續，並且能帶來交叉銷售。你還能進一步提高 RAR 的可能性。

Third, for the client, for the company, the level of the fees and the period of time is very interesting. You expand the relationship. For us, this is extremely relevant. What about production? It could be in the short term, yes, but the permanence is in the long term also because then you have lines until five years with one-year grace period, and we play this game very aware. We were the greatest in origination last year and this semester too.

第三，對客戶、對公司而言，費用水準與期間都非常有意思。你會擴大彼此關係。對我們來說，這極其相關。那麼生產（放款投放）呢？短期內可能可以，是的，但持續性在長期，因為你會有最長到五年的額度，並有一年寬限期，而我們非常清楚自己在玩的是什麼樣的遊戲。我們去年在承作（origination）方面是最大的，今年上半年也是。

What about the pressure on return? It will not generate, but we will also create, as a consequence, a relationship with a client that is quite resilient in terms of payment, because it's only the minority that is past due. I don't see any kind of pressure in terms of new players. I think we're extremely competitive, we are showing the ability of penetration and the FGO contracting, which is extremely good for clients, and also FGI. We do have space in some lines to operate, but obviously, if there is no contribution from now on, it will dry the capacity of the fund to guarantee that in the market in the long term.

那回報壓力呢？它不會造成壓力，但我們也會因此與一個在付款方面相當具韌性的客戶建立關係，因為逾期的只占少數。我看不到任何來自新進玩家的壓力。我認為我們極具競爭力；我們展現了滲透能力，以及FGO的簽約，這對客戶非常好，還有FGI。我們在某些產品線仍有操作空間，但顯然，如果從現在起沒有新的資金注入，基金在長期於市場提供擔保的能力就會枯竭。

For 2026, I don't believe we might have a pressure at the end of the year, but no deviations from this capacity of production. A comment, I think Cassiano from Banco Bradesco also did. It is one of the best lines promoted by the federal government because it does actually go toward the companies until a specific size, both in FGI and FGO. This is my opinion. In terms of programs, of social programs, I think these lines are really the best.

對於2026年，我不認為年底會有壓力，但在這個投放能力上不會有偏離。補充一下，我想布拉德斯科銀行（Banco Bradesco）的Cassiano也提過。這是聯邦政府推動的最佳產品線之一，因為它確實能覆蓋到一定規模以下的企業，無論是FGI或FGO。這是我的看法。就各類計畫、社會計畫而言，我認為這些產品線確實是最好的。

Matheus Guimaraes, XP.

Matheus Guimaraes，XP。

Good morning, Andre, Noronha, Cassiano. Congratulations for the results, and thanks for the opportunity to ask a question. I'd like to talk about the private payroll-deductible loan. You reported very relevant growth, both sequential and year-on-year. The product has gone through some changes. It's even controversial for some competitors. It is more difficult for some. For others, they continue to operate with it. I'd like you to share with us your vision in relation to the product considering these new changes and what we can think about this line's growth from now on.

早安，Andre、Noronha、Cassiano。恭喜你們的業績，也謝謝提供提問機會。我想談談民營部門的薪資代扣貸款。你們披露了非常顯著的成長，無論是環比或同比。這個產品經歷了一些變更。對某些同業來說甚至頗具爭議。對一些人而言更難操作。對另一些人而言，他們仍持續在做。我想請你們分享在這些新變更下對該產品的看法，以及我們接下來可以如何看待這條產品線的成長。

Andre, you start. I will add some comments. Thanks for your participation. It is great to talk to you. Andre will start answering. We will add on some comments.

Andre，你先開始。我會再補充一些評論。謝謝你的參與。很高興和你交流。Andre會先回答。我們會再補充一些看法。

Matheus, this is a product that is getting to be more mature. It was launched in March 2025. In July last year, Dataprev were making great observations. The risk was lower in that front. We started defining the filters so that in October we could accelerate the origination, always keeping the discipline and the RAR.

Matheus，這是一個正在走向更成熟的產品。它在2025年3月推出。去年7月，Dataprev提出了很好的觀察。那一端的風險較低。我們開始設定篩選條件，讓我們能在10月加速承作，同時始終維持紀律與RAR。

The focus on RAR is very attractive for us. We showed you that the delinquency scenario is stable, 4.7% in June. The market is 8.9% and growing. It is a very risky product that caters to lower income people and has a high risk here. With the right filters, we were able to define the public, the audience, and to lend. This origination increased a lot, and it has been keeping stable through time.

對RAR的聚焦對我們非常有吸引力。我們向你們展示逾期情境是穩定的，6月為4.7%。市場是8.9%，而且還在上升。這是一個風險很高的產品，服務較低收入族群，因此這裡的風險很高。透過正確的篩選條件，我們得以界定客群並進行放款。這項承作量大幅增加，且隨時間保持穩定。

We received additional guarantees recently with FGTS. They have some restrictions in terms of use, some limitations, which place a low additional value as a guarantee. For us, this doesn't impact so much in terms of origination. But obviously, the more guarantees the better. It is a small impact in terms of origination.

我們最近透過FGTS獲得了額外擔保。它在使用上有一些限制與約束，使其作為擔保的新增價值不高。對我們而言，這在承作量方面影響不大。但顯然，擔保越多越好。在承作量方面影響很小。

I would like to add the following. We were very careful to delay a stronger entrance until we were very sure about Dataprev. When we felt sure about it, we did effectively start to operate. We have to approve the credit for the individual and for the corporate side. It is important.

我想補充如下。在我們對Dataprev非常有把握之前，我們非常謹慎地延後更大力度的進場。當我們覺得有把握時，我們確實開始運作。我們必須同時核准個人端與企業端的授信。這很重要。

What Andre mentioned and I mentioned beforehand around the delinquency, the over 90 NPL, without Bradesco, and how we're doing. We do have capacity for origination. In this market specifically, having 14% share in the total of payroll loans. In the private, we only have 7%. The opportunity we have is of growth. It is not of loss, it is of growth. We believe that we will continue to grow.

關於Andre提到、我先前也提到的逾期情況——90天以上不良（NPL），不含Bradesco，以及我們的表現。我們確實有承作能力。在這個市場中，我們在整體薪資貸款的市占為14%。在民營部門我們只有7%。我們的機會在於成長。不是流失，而是成長。我們相信我們會持續成長。

Cassiano?

Cassiano？

Yes, according to the filters, André mentioned that well, it's a product, if you look at it from A to Z, it's very good. As you increase the tail of the government's program, the greater risk for appetite, we have to be careful with our corporate clients in-house, this is the cluster we focus on and everything leading to that. I think there is a good road, but with caution.

是的，依照篩選條件，André講得很好；這個產品如果你從頭到尾看，是非常好的。隨著政府計畫的尾端（覆蓋範圍）擴大、風險偏好提高，我們必須對我們內部的企業客戶更謹慎；這是我們聚焦的客群，以及所有與此相關的安排。我認為道路是好的，但要謹慎。

Thank you, Matheus.

謝謝你，Matheus。

Carlos Gomez-Lopez, HSBC.

Carlos Gomez-Lopez，匯豐（HSBC）。

Thank you so much, Andre, team. Congratulations on the results, congratulations on the capital increase. I had my traditional question on insurance. Your guidance for insurance is still 6% to 8%. Your result this first half of the year has been very strong, 14%. Should we expect a normalization in the second half of the year? If I can add one more thing, you mentioned that you want to increase your tangible equity. Which tangible equity metric are you looking at? Is it tangible equity to assets or tangible equity to loans? What level would you like to have? In my numbers, you have 5.9% tangible equity to assets. You used to have 6.5%, 7%. What level would you like to achieve?

非常感謝，Andre與團隊。恭喜你們的業績，也恭喜增資。我有一個關於保險的例行問題。你們對保險的指引仍是6%到8%。你們今年上半年表現非常強勁，達到14%。我們是否應預期下半年會回歸常態？如果我可以再加問一點，你們提到想提高有形股東權益。你們關注的是哪一個有形股東權益指標？是有形股東權益占資產比，還是有形股東權益占貸款比？你們希望達到什麼水準？按我的數字，你們有形股東權益占資產比為5.9%。你們以前是6.5%、7%。你們希望達到什麼水準？

Thank you, Carlos. Good to see you again. I think we can start with him, and then Ney. Ney, would you like to answer the first question?

謝謝你，Carlos。很高興再次見到你。我想我們可以先從他開始，然後再由Ney。Ney，你願意回答第一個問題嗎？

Sure. First of all, good morning, everyone. Our expectation is to come to the end of the second half, pretty much in line with the guidance. I'm not saying it's going to be a deceleration, but our 2025 base was quite high in the second half, which is business as usual for insurance companies. We had a better performance vis-à-vis the guidance for the second half, but our expectation here, as I said, with a higher base in the second half, we hope to deliver something very close to the midpoint or slightly above the guidance for the year.

當然。首先，大家早安。我們的預期是在下半年結束時，大致與指引一致。我不是說會減速，但我們2025年下半年的基期相當高，這對保險公司而言屬於常態。相較於指引，我們在下半年表現更好，但如我所說，由於下半年基期較高，我們希望全年能交出非常接近指引中位數或略高於指引的結果。

Thank you, Ney.

謝謝你，Ney。

Well, Carlos, the intangible capital. We don't have any specific metric of where we want to go, but the more our own capital, the more capital we have, the better, and intangible capital is important. The assumption is to have very robust capital to face the growth of the bank and to face macroeconomic ups and downs, and also when it comes to a balance and the reduction of our tax credit. This is the main foundation behind the intangible capital and the growth that leads to capital increase.

嗯，Carlos，關於無形資本。我們沒有任何具體的衡量指標來界定我們想達到哪裡，但我們自有資本越多、資本越充足就越好，而無形資本很重要。我們的假設是要有非常穩健的資本，以因應銀行的成長、因應宏觀經濟的起伏，也包括在資產負債表的平衡以及我們稅務抵免（tax credit）降低時的影響。這就是無形資本以及帶動資本增加之成長背後的主要基礎。

We don't have a target, but the more capital we have, be it tier 1 or whatever could be put at the disposal of results, which is the case of this capital increase, is what will strengthen us for the next cycle and the reduction of DTA. The main point here is Profit, net income. We want to reduce that gap of tax credit, increasing tangible capital. It's always good to see you, Carlos.

我們沒有目標，但我們擁有的資本越多，不論是一級資本（Tier 1）或任何可用於成果的資本——就像這次增資——都將強化我們迎接下一個週期，以及降低DTA。這裡的重點是獲利、淨利。我們希望透過增加有形資本來縮小稅務抵免的缺口。很高興見到你，Carlos。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous.

Renato Meloni，Autonomous。

Good morning, and congrats on another impressive ROE. I would like to revisit the dynamics in the second half. You said that you're expecting to reach a guidance from the middle to the high level, which would imply in the acceleration of your risk-adjusted NII, like 2% in the Q2.

早安，並恭喜再次交出亮眼的ROE。我想再回到下半年的動態。你提到你們預期將達到指引區間的中段到高端，這意味著你們風險調整後的淨利息收入（NII）會加速，例如在第二季約2%。

At the same time, you said that your portfolio growth should converge towards the guidance, but it's running way above it with NII net provisions of 9.1, which is flat, and there are some issues related to provisioning. I would just like to reconcile all of these aspects that are probably putting some pressure on your risk-adjusted margin.

同時，你也說你們的投資組合成長應該會收斂到指引，但目前明顯高於指引；而NII扣除提存後為9.1，持平，且有一些與提存相關的議題。我想把這些面向串起來理解，因為它們可能正在對你們的風險調整後利差造成一些壓力。

Meloni, it's a pleasure to talk to you again, and thank you for joining us. Andre, I think you can start.

Meloni，很高興再次和你交流，也謝謝你加入我們。Andre，我想你可以先開始。

Thank you. Thank you, Renato and Marcelo. Our step-by-step commitment of increasing net income every quarter implies that by the end of 2026, our net income that is implicit in the guidance from the midpoint to the top, and that's what I said, that is from mid to upwards, aligned with step-by-step commitment of profitability increase.

謝謝。謝謝你，Renato和Marcelo。我們逐季提升淨利的承諾意味著，到2026年底，我們的淨利將達到指引所隱含的中位數到上緣——這也是我所說的，從中段往上——並與逐步提升獲利能力的承諾一致。

Our guidance consists of five lines, and we are very confident that we will deliver all five lines within the intervals of the guidance. Every line in its proper place. We just said that insurance should be from the center upwards. Services close to the top. Expenses closer to the floor of the guidance. NII net of provisions would be slightly below the center of the guidance. This reconciliation is not done line by line, but it has to be thought in terms of net income.

我們的指引由五條線組成，我們非常有信心在指引區間內交付這五條線。每一條線都會在其應有的位置。我們剛才提到保險應該會從中位數往上。服務收入接近上緣。費用更接近指引下緣。NII扣除提存會略低於指引中位數。這種對帳不是逐條線去做，而是要以淨利的角度來思考。

Meloni, I think we are delivering strong traction, not only in the NII, which also carries with it liability NII, market NII, but we will look at these revenue lines from fee and commissions income growing within the guidance. The same thing goes for the insurance line, and expenses are under control, as mentioned by Cassiano Ricardo Scarpelli. This leads to better results. Everything is within plan, step by step, without doing anything crazy and just delivering everything that we promised in our plan. Thank you.

Meloni，我認為我們正在展現強勁的動能，不僅在NII上——其中也包含負債端NII、市場NII——我們也會看到手續費與佣金收入等費用類收入線在指引範圍內成長。保險線也是同樣情況，而費用如Cassiano Ricardo Scarpelli所提到的，仍在控制之中。這帶來更好的結果。一切都在計畫之內，循序漸進，不做任何瘋狂的事，只是交付我們在計畫中承諾的一切。謝謝。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

Tito Labarta，高盛。

Great. Thank you, Andre. Hi, Noronha, Cassiano. Thank you for the call and taking my question. Just a follow-up on the loan growth, I guess two specific lines. On the corporate side, rural loans jumped 20% in the quarter. I know you show in slide five there that your market share is much lower, and your NPLs have actually improved over the last year, but larger peers that have much larger exposure are suffering quite a bit in that segment.

很好。謝謝你，Andre。嗨，Noronha、Cassiano。謝謝這通電話會議並讓我提問。我想就放款成長追問一下，我想聚焦兩條具體線別。在企業端，農村貸款本季跳增20%。我知道你們在第五頁投影片顯示你們的市占率低很多，而且你們的不良貸款（NPL）在過去一年其實有所改善，但曝險更大的同業在該細分領域承受相當大的壓力。

Just to understand why you feel comfortable growing there. Also, on the individual side, vehicles, you're also showing you're gaining your fair share, but that's also a segment where some of your peers are pulling back a little bit. We've seen some asset quality issues over the last year there as well. Just to understand why you're feeling comfortable to grow in those two lines. Thank you.

想了解你們為何覺得在那裡擴張仍然安心。另外在個人端，車貸方面，你們也顯示正在取得合理的市占，但那也是一些同業正在稍微收縮的領域。我們也看到過去一年那裡出現一些資產品質問題。想了解你們為何對這兩條業務線的成長感到有把握。謝謝。

Tito, good to see you again. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Let me see. First of all, in corporate, in wholesale bank, we did some deals that were very important, especially for M&A in rural credit with AAA clients, AA. I mentioned two operations. BRL6 billion heading the amount. One of them with good guarantees with a AAA client that naturally did an important acquisition to complement their business. It was complemented in a period of a valley. If they have more leverage in agribusiness, they sell, they remove the leverage, and they continue with their business on one side.

Tito，很高興再次見到你。謝謝。謝謝你來參加。我想想看。首先，在企業端、在批發銀行（wholesale bank），我們做了一些非常重要的交易，特別是與AAA、AA客戶相關的農村信貸併購（M&A）。我提到兩筆操作。金額合計60億巴西雷亞爾。其中一筆是與AAA客戶合作、且有良好擔保；該客戶自然是為了補強其業務而進行一項重要收購。這是在景氣低谷期完成的補強。如果他們在農業綜合企業（agribusiness）端槓桿更高，他們就會出售、去槓桿，並在另一端持續其業務。

On the other side, a lot of liquidity in the guarantee. We work looking at the quality of the clients. If you look at our whole release, throughout these quarters, we have deconcentrating the portfolios of the bank. There was a deviation, a slight deviation in the last quarter, which was above, very ad hoc in terms of risk appetite. If you get the 10 top ones, it continues to drop. We are deconcentrating the portfolio, looking for good ratings and good guarantees in the wholesale bank, too.

另一方面，擔保品具有很高的流動性。我們的作法是著眼於客戶品質。如果你看我們整體的揭露，在這幾個季度中，我們一直在降低銀行投資組合的集中度。上一季有一個偏離、輕微偏離，略高一些，但在風險偏好上是非常特定（ad hoc）的情況。如果你看前十大客戶，集中度仍在下降。我們正在去集中化投資組合，在批發銀行也同樣尋求良好評等與良好擔保。

In agribusiness, there are very good clients in areas and sectors that are very well known by us. That's why we feel comfortable because these are specific approvals. In terms of vehicles, that's what we mentioned last year. I mentioned this, I think it was in the Q3 release. We would start to grow in vehicles. That's another lever for us in time within the risk-adjusted return.

在農業綜合企業領域，有一些非常優質的客戶，且位於我們非常熟悉的地區與產業。因此我們感到安心，因為這些都是特定個案的核准。至於車貸，這就是我們去年提到的。我提過，我想是在第三季的揭露中。我們會開始在車貸上成長。這是我們在時間推進中、在風險調整後報酬框架內的另一個槓桿。

I'm going to divide that into four quadrants. Light, new vehicles, light used vehicles, heavy vehicles and motorcycles. Motorcycles, our risk appetite is low. We participate by choosing ratings. In heavy vehicles, we are the leaders, and it depends a lot on the type of line and also on the risk-adjusted return, because here the NII is lower because it's important to have an RAR adjusted to the client.

我把它分成四個象限。輕型新車、輕型中古車、重型車以及機車。機車方面，我們的風險偏好較低。我們會透過挑選評等來參與。重型車方面，我們是市場領導者，這很大程度取決於產品線類型以及風險調整後報酬，因為在這裡NII較低，所以必須有針對客戶調整後的RAR。

In terms of light and new vehicles, the risk-adjusted return is lower. We are not the leaders in the market. We do participate in it. We have good agreements, especially looking at our account holder clients. They have a better relationship with us. With the semi-new vehicles, because if you're talking about a vehicle that is five, six years old or one that is 20 years old, we don't operate at that. Here we made a very deep diagnosis of the market.

至於輕型新車，風險調整後報酬較低。我們不是市場領導者。但我們確實有參與。我們有不錯的合作協議，特別是以我們的帳戶客戶為主。他們與我們的關係更緊密。至於準新車，因為如果你談的是一台五、六年車齡的車，或是二十年車齡的車，我們不做那種業務。在這裡我們對市場做了非常深入的診斷。

We analyzed the risk, and we work with the modeling the whole time. We analyzed how the market was operating, specifically two players were doing very good work with their clients. We changed our platform, giving a new experience to clients, to dealers. We had machine learning behind that for the modeling of pricing, and also with AI and GenAI, risk and credit modeling, and also policies.

我們分析了風險，並且全程都與建模工作同步進行。我們分析了市場的運作方式，特別是有兩個參與者在為其客戶提供服務方面做得非常出色。我們改造了我們的平台，為客戶與經銷商帶來全新的體驗。我們在定價建模方面採用了機器學習，並且也運用 AI 與生成式 AI（GenAI）進行風險與信用建模，以及相關政策制定。

The policies define if you're going to accept a higher or lower risk depending on the time period of a vehicle, which is also a guarantee for us. We saw an opportunity of having an NII. We saw that the opportunity as an indicator could be smaller than that of the FGI and FGO, but it is healthy. We saw an opportunity for growth at specific markets, at specific ratings. We're not present in the markets as a whole, the whole market. We are very confident in relation to what we've been doing,

這些政策會根據車輛的使用年限（期間）來界定你要接受較高或較低的風險，而這對我們而言同時也是一種保障。我們看到了取得 NII 的機會。我們認為，作為一項指標，這個機會可能小於 FGI 與 FGO 的機會，但它是健康的。我們也看到了在特定市場、特定評級上的成長機會。我們並未全面覆蓋整個市場。對於我們一直以來所做的事情，我們非常有信心。

Tito. I don't know if my colleagues would like to add anything to it, but thank you so much for your question. It's great to see you. Also in the insurance cross-selling. Andre remembered that very well. I also mentioned about the cross-sell. The cross-selling we've been doing, and this example is the best one actually, because it is embedded in the client's experience.

Tito。我不知道我的同事是否想補充什麼，但非常感謝你的提問。很高興見到你。另外也包括保險的交叉銷售。Andre 對此記得非常清楚。我也提到了交叉銷售。我們一直在做的交叉銷售，而這個例子其實是最好的，因為它已經嵌入在客戶體驗之中。

What happened was we produced in the loan insurance and the vehicle, the same thing that we produced this semester as we produced last year for these channels, for these kind of clients. That's something else that brings profitability and growth for us in this market. Thank you so much for your participation. Once again, it's great to see you.

實際發生的是，在貸款保險與車輛（相關業務）上，我們在本學期於這些通路、這類客戶所產生的業績，與去年同期相同。這也是另一項能為我們在此市場帶來獲利能力與成長的因素。非常感謝你的參與。再次，很高興見到你。

Thank you, Tito. We end the Q&A sessions. Those questions that were not answered will be answered by the IR team by email. Before giving the floor to Marcelo, I would like to remind you that the material for the release is available on the IR website, and we are available to answer any questions you might have.

謝謝你，Tito。我們結束問答環節。尚未回答的問題將由投資人關係（IR）團隊透過電子郵件回覆。在把時間交給 Marcelo 之前，我想提醒各位，新聞稿相關資料已發布於 IR 網站上，我們也隨時可以回答你可能有的任何問題。

Thank you, André. Thank you, Cassiano. I would like to thank you, especially those of you who had the patience of listening to us and all of these explanations. I would like to thank our colleagues from the sell side for their questions, for your participation, and all our investors who are listening to us, our employees who are also following the earnings release. I would like to say that we are very confident on what we have been delivering on everything we have been doing, including in the insurance group. Here we are together with Ney and Marinelli. As André said at the beginning, Marinelli released results recently, and I would like to emphasize something that he said of high level of return at Bradesco, great synergy in the distribution of SME in Bradesco. I also talked about vehicle insurance.

謝謝你，André。謝謝你，Cassiano。我想向各位致謝，特別是感謝那些耐心聆聽我們以及所有這些說明的人。我也要感謝賣方（sell side）的同仁提出問題、參與其中，並感謝所有正在收聽我們的投資人，以及同樣在關注本次財報發布的員工。我想說，我們對於我們所交付的成果、以及我們所做的一切都非常有信心，包括在保險集團方面。我們在此與 Ney 和 Marinelli 一起。正如 André 在一開始所說，Marinelli 最近發布了業績，我想強調他提到的一點：Bradesco 具有很高的回報水準，並且在 Bradesco 的中小企業（SME）分銷方面具有很強的協同效應。我也談到了車險。

Ney reminded us in the press conference, I continue confident in all the subsidiaries and affiliates and everything that we've been doing. What I want to say is, I just convey a feeling I have. We are very transparent, not judging anything. On February 20t, if I'm not mistaken, our market cap was of BRL240 billion. With Bradesco, net equity at BRL14 billion. The remaining part of the bank, because this is a conglomerate, that's why I'm talking about so many revenue lines in different ways.

Ney 在記者會上提醒我們：我仍然對所有子公司與關聯企業，以及我們一直在做的一切充滿信心。我想說的是，我只是傳達我內心的一種感受。我們非常透明，不對任何事情作評判。如果我沒記錯的話，2 月 20 日我們的市值是 2,400 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL240 billion）。以 Bradesco 而言，淨資產為 140 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL14 billion）。銀行其餘部分，因為這是一個綜合金融集團，所以我才會以不同方式談到這麼多條收入線。

Most part of the insurance group, which is the largest in Latin America within these BRL200 billion remaining, these payment companies here and the other participations that we have within our organization here that have a value of BRL200 billion. The market is worse. We have the war problem. If we do a calculation, right? This comes from where I'm from, this expression.

保險集團是其中最大的一部分；在剩餘約 2,000 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL200 billion）中，它是拉丁美洲最大的保險集團；此外還包括這些支付公司，以及我們在組織內的其他持股，合計價值約 2,000 億巴西雷亞爾。市場變得更糟。我們面臨戰爭問題。如果我們做個計算，對吧？這是我家鄉常用的一種說法。

If we make a math calculation, we unleash the value of Bradesco that has been showing resilience, and the results and equivalence of hospitals that were mentioned. It's a great business. It has shown growing results, and it will be like this from now on. When we look at that, we listed the capital of this company, unleashed a value of BRL42 billion, and we have a market cap approximately BRL182 billion, just to make our thinking easier. All the rest is worth BRL140 billion, the remaining part. That was BRL200, it's BRL140. The market dropped. There's no illusion when we list a company and it is below the bank, it could be from another industry. You're still being traded by the same multiples, but I think the discount is good.

如果我們做一個數學計算，把 Bradesco 的價值釋放出來——它一直展現韌性——以及前面提到的醫院的業績與對標（equivalence）。這是一門很棒的生意。它已展現出成長的成果，而且從現在開始也會持續如此。當我們這樣看時，我們將這家公司的資本上市，釋放出 420 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL42 billion）的價值，而我們的市值約為 1,820 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL182 billion），只是為了讓我們的思路更容易理解。其餘所有部分價值為 1,400 億巴西雷亞爾（BRL140 billion），也就是剩餘部分。原本是 2,000 億，現在是 1,400 億。市場下跌了。當我們讓一家公司上市而其估值低於銀行時，並不存在任何幻覺；它也可能來自另一個產業。你仍然是以相同的倍數在交易，但我認為這個折價是好的。

I have great confidence in everything that we've been delivering and in the future of our organization. That's just a provocation for all of you. Thank you once again. Thank you all our colleagues who joined us. See you next time. We're always available to talk to any one of you and to every one of you. Thank you.

我對我們所交付的一切，以及我們組織的未來，都充滿信心。這只是對各位的一個拋磚引玉。再次感謝。也感謝所有加入我們的同仁。下次見。我們隨時都願意與你們任何一位、以及每一位交流。謝謝。