Braskem SA (BAK) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon everyone, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Braskem's Second Quarter of 2025 Results Conference Call. With us here today, we have Mr. Roberto Ramos, Braskem's CEO; Mr. Felipe Jens, Braskem's CFO; and Ms. Rosana Avolio, Investor Relations, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence Director. We inform you that this event is being recorded. The presentation will be held in Portuguese with simultaneous translation into English. (Operator Instructions)

大家下午好，謝謝大家的等待。歡迎參加巴西石化公司 2025 年第二季業績電話會議。今天在場的有巴西石化公司執行長羅伯托·拉莫斯先生、巴西石化公司財務長費利佩·延斯先生以及投資者關係、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監羅薩娜·阿沃利奧女士。我們通知您，該事件正在被記錄。演講將以葡萄牙語進行，並同步翻譯成英語。（操作員指示）

After Braskem's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. At that time, further instructions will be given. This event's audio will be available on the Investor Relations website after it concludes. We remind you that participants may choose what language -- what -- may submit questions to Braskem's Board, which will be answered by the Investor Relations department.

巴西石化公司演講結束後，將進行問答環節。屆時將會給予進一步的指示。本次活動的音訊將在結束後在投資者關係網站上提供。我們提醒您，參與者可以選擇使用什麼語言向 Braskem 董事會提交問題，投資者關係部門將予以解答。

Before proceeding, we'd like to clarify that any statements that may be made during this conference call regarding Braskem's business prospects, projections, operational and financial goals constitute beliefs and assumptions of the company's management as well as information currently available to Braskem. Future considerations are not a guarantee of performance and involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors and analysts should understand that general conditions, industry conditions and other operational factors may affect Braskem's future results. and may lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such future conditions.

在繼續之前，我們想澄清一下，本次電話會議中有關巴西石化的業務前景、預測、營運和財務目標的任何聲明均代表公司管理層的信念和假設以及巴西石化目前掌握的資訊。未來的考慮並不能保證業績，並且涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們涉及未來事件，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者和分析師應該明白，一般條件、產業條件和其他營運因素可能會影響巴西石化公司的未來業績，並可能導致與此類未來條件下所表達的結果有重大差異的結果。

Now I'll turn the conference over to Ms. Rosana Avolio, Investor Relations, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence Director in your presentation. Ms. Avolio, you may begin your presentation.

現在，我將會議交給投資者關係、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監 Rosana Avolio 女士進行演講。阿沃利奧女士，您可以開始您的演講了。

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We appreciate everyone for participating in Braskem's earnings call for the second quarter of 2025. According to the agenda on slide number 3, we will start with the main company's highlights in the period, which can be found from slide number 4.

女士們、先生們，早安。我們感謝大家參加巴西石化公司 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。根據幻燈片3上的議程，我們將從本期間主要公司的亮點開始，可以從幻燈片4上找到。

In the second quarter of 2025, the performance of the industry continues to be affected by the continuation of the downturn in the petrochemical industry in addition to the global tariff uncertainties. In this scenario, the utilization rate of petrochemical plants remained stable in relation to the previous quarter, especially in Brazil and the assets in the United States and Europe, both with 74% of utilization, while Mexico impacted by the general maintenance shutdown showed a drop of 35 percentage points in its utilization rate when compared to the previous quarter.

2025年第二季度，除了全球關稅的不確定性之外，石化產業持續低迷也將持續影響產業表現。在此情境下，石化工廠的利用率與上一季相比保持穩定，尤其是巴西以及美國和歐洲的資產，利用率均達到74%，而受一般維護停工影響，墨西哥的利用率與上一季相比下降了35個百分點。

In addition, Braskem recorded an average global extent frequency rate of 1.11 events per million hours worked, well below the global industry average, which reinforces the non-negotiable commitment to the safety of the company's operations. Regarding its results, the company reported a consolidated recurring EBITDA of $74 million, 67% lower when compared to the first quarter of 2025 in face of a challenging conjunctural scenario.

此外，巴西石化公司記錄的全球平均事故頻率為每百萬工作小時 1.11 次，遠低於全球產業平均水平，強化了公司對營運安全的堅定承諾。就其業績而言，該公司報告的合併經常性 EBITDA 為 7,400 萬美元，與 2025 年第一季相比下降了 67%，面臨嚴峻的情況。

In addition, despite the lower working capital consumption when compared to the previous quarter, the company presented operating cash consumption of $31 million, an increase of $129 million compared to the previous quarter. Regarding its debt profile, the company ended the quarter with an average debt maturity of about nine years and with more than 68% of the maturity as of 2030.

此外，儘管與上一季相比營運資本消耗有所下降，但該公司的營運現金消耗為 3,100 萬美元，較上一季增加 1.29 億美元。就債務狀況而言，該公司本季末的平均債務期限約為 9 年，其中 68% 以上的債務期限為 2030 年。

Braskem's cash position at the end of the second quarter was approximately $1.7 billion, sufficient to cover debt maturity in the next 30 months, not considering the international revolving credit line available in the full amount of $1 billion and maturing in December 2026. The company's total liquidity, including this line ended at approximately $2.8 million in the quarter.

截至第二季末，巴西石化公司的現金狀況約為 17 億美元，足以覆蓋未來 30 個月到期的債務，這還不包括 2026 年 12 月到期的 10 億美元全額國際循環信貸額度。包括這條線路在內的公司總流動資金在本季約為 280 萬美元。

Now let's move on to the next slide. The performance of each segment of the company will be presented below, starting with Brazil on slide 6.

現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。該公司每個部門的業績將如下所示，從第 6 張投影片上的巴西開始。

The petrochemical plants in the Brazil segment presented an average utilization rate in line with the first quarter of 2025, with emphasis on the gas-based plant in Rio de Janeiro, which operated at 95%. Regarding sales, the volume of resin sold in the Brazilian market and in the international markets were higher compared to the previous quarter, impacted by the anticipation of purchases in the transformation chain due to the lower prices in the international market in the quarter due to tariff uncertainties and the market expectation of price increases throughout the second half of 2025. As for the international spreads that impacted the segment, although the average resin spreads increased in the quarter due to the 17% increase in the PP spread, the lower PE spread at 4% had an influence on the results of the business.

巴西分部的石化工廠平均利用率與 2025 年第一季持平，其中裡約熱內盧的天然氣工廠的利用率達 95%。就銷售而言，巴西市場和國際市場的樹脂銷售量較上一季增加，這受到關稅不確定性導致本季度國際市場價格較低以及市場預期2025年下半年價格上漲導致轉化鏈採購預期的影響。至於影響該部門的國際價差，儘管由於 PP 價差增加 17%，本季平均樹脂價差有所增加，但 4% 的較低 PE 價差對業務業績產生了影響。

Recurring EBITDA for the segment was $152 million, 24% lower than the previous quarter, mainly impacted by the stock effect of fix stock acquired in the previous period, appreciation of the average real against the average dollar in the period. And the increase in fixed cost is cost and other expenses resulting from the reclassification of expenses from the corporate unit to the business due to changes in the company's organizational structure. Now let's move on to the next slide, please.

該部門的經常性 EBITDA 為 1.52 億美元，比上一季下降 24%，主要受到上一期間收購的固定庫存的庫存效應以及本期間平均雷亞爾兌平均美元升值的影響。而固定成本的增加是由於公司組織架構變化，將費用從企業單位重新分類到業務而產生的成本和其他費用。現在請我們看下一張投影片。

In the second quarter of 2025, the utilization rate of the green ethylene plant was 71%, 16 percentage points lower than in the previous quarter. impacted by the inventory optimization carried out in the period. On the other hand, sales of green polyethylene were higher due to the increase in demand from new and existing customers, with emphasis on the higher volume sold in Brazil compared to the previous quarter.

2025年第二季度，綠色乙烯工廠利用率為71%，較上一季下降16個百分點，受期間內進行的庫存優化影響。另一方面，由於新舊客戶需求增加，綠色聚乙烯的銷量有所成長，尤其是巴西的銷量較上一季增加。

In this context, the green polyethylene business was 18% higher in revenue in conjunction with the company's ETBE business. The positive quarterly results benefit the company's transformation journey, focusing on its migration to renewables pillar, with the objective of strengthening the resilience and longevity of the business. Currently, the presence of its own innovative ecosystem focused on developing renewable solutions and the strategic partnerships established through Sustainea and Braskem Siam supports the investment of this journey. Now let's move on to the next slide, please.

在此背景下，綠色聚乙烯業務與公司的ETBE業務結合，收入成長了18％。積極的季度業績有利於公司的轉型之旅，重點是向再生能源支柱的轉變，目標是增強業務的彈性和壽命。目前，其專注於開發可再生解決方案的創新生態系統以及透過 Sustainea 和 Braskem Siam 建立的策略合作夥伴關係支持了這一旅程的投資。現在請我們看下一張投影片。

In the United States and Europe segment, the plant utilization rate remained in line with the second quarter of 2025 compared to the previous quarter at 74% of utilization. On the other hand, the volume of PP sales in the segment was higher than in the previous quarter by 7,000 tons. Despite the higher volumes, sales volumes in the segment, recurring EBITDA was negative by $8 million, mainly impacted by the following inventory effect due to the average cost of goods sold, referring to the feedstocks acquired in the previous period which partially offset the improvement in spreads in the segment and the higher SG&A explained by the reclassification of expenses from the corporate unit to the business due to changes in the company's organizational structure. Now moving on to the next slide, we will discuss the segment Mexico.

在美國和歐洲領域，工廠利用率與2025年第二季持平，上一季為74%。另一方面，該部門的PP銷售量比上一季增加了7,000噸。儘管該部門的銷售和銷售均有所增加，但經常性 EBITDA 為負 800 萬美元，主要受到以下因素的影響：平均銷售成本導致的庫存效應，指的是上一期間收購的原料，這部分抵消了該部門利差的改善，以及由於公司組織結構的變化，費用從企業部門重新分類到業務，導致銷售、一般和行政費用增加。現在進入下一張投影片，我們將討論墨西哥部分。

In June, the general maintenance shutdown of Braskem Idesa plant began which significantly impacted the segment's operation in the period that operated at a utilization rate of 44% in the second quarter of 2025. The volume of polyethylene sales in the period was also lower compared to the first quarter of the year, impacted by the lower availability of product due to the scheduled shutdown and also the lower supply of ethane by PEMEX, impacting the inventory formation process prior to the general maintenance shutdown. In this scenario, this segment's recurring EBITDA in the period was negative by $9 million also impacted by the lower spread of 10 basis point ethylene in the period at about $95 per ton, the higher expenses of the storage and ethane tankage due to the scheduled shutdown, which was partially offset by the positive impact on other revenues. Now next slide.

6 月份，Braskem Idesa 工廠開始進行全面維護停工，這對該部門當期的運作產生了重大影響，2025 年第二季該廠的利用率為 44%。本季聚乙烯銷售量與今年第一季相比也有所下降，原因是計畫停工導致產品供應量減少，以及 PEMEX 乙烷供應量減少，影響了全面維護停工前的庫存形成過程。在此情況下，該部門當期的經常性 EBITDA 為負 900 萬美元，還受到當期乙烯價差降低 10 個基點至每噸約 95 美元以及計劃停產導致的儲存和乙烷罐區費用增加的影響，但其他收入的積極影響部分抵消了這些影響。現在是下一張投影片。

In the second quarter of 2025, the Mexico segment performance was impacted by a combination of significant factors. The reduced domestic ethane supply in recent months, below the volume contracted with PEMEX has posed an additional operational challenge, especially in a context of a downturn in the global petrochemical cycle, where international spreads are expected to remain challenged in the short and in the medium term. These factors have exerted additional pressure on Braskem Idesa results, which operates with a significant debt structure, imposing constraints that require continued attention to cash creation and financial discipline in this segment.

2025 年第二季度，墨西哥分部的業績受到多種重大因素的影響。近幾個月來，國內乙烷供應量減少，低於與 PEMEX 簽訂的合約量，這帶來了額外的營運挑戰，尤其是在全球石化週期低迷的背景下，預計國際價差在短期和中期內仍將面臨挑戰。這些因素對 Braskem Idesa 的業績施加了額外的壓力，該公司的營運負債結構嚴重，施加的限制要求該公司需要持續關注該部門的現金創造和財務紀律。

Now next slide, moving on to the next chapter. I will discuss the consolidated results of the company, starting with the update regarding the work from in Alagoas.

現在是下一張投影片，進入下一章。我將討論公司的綜合業績，首先介紹阿拉戈斯州的工作進展。

By the end of June 2025, all work fronts in Maceió continue to advance according to plan. The relocation and compensation front continued to show evolution in its indicators and ended the semester with 99.9% of execution of the residence relocation program. The percentage also applies to the number of proposals submitted for the financial compensation and reallocation support program, of which about 99.5% were accepted at 99.4% were paid.

到2025年6月底，馬塞奧所有工作線繼續按計畫進行。安置補償工作各項指標持續向好，本學期結束時，安置方案執行率達99.9%。這一比例也適用於提交的財政補償和重新分配支援計畫的提案數量，其中約 99.5% 被接受，99.4% 得到支付。

In parallel, the execution of the closure and the monitoring of the salt cavities still being implemented. After the provision of all actions, if necessary, that ensure that the 35 cavities reach maintenance free state in the long term. We highlight in this quarter the approval by the AMM of the confirmation of the ceiling of cavity 18. With this, there are already 6 naturally filled cavities.

同時，鹽洞的封閉和監測工作仍在進行中。在採取一切必要措施後，確保35個腔體長期處於免維護狀態。本季度，我們將重點放在 AMM 對 18 號腔體天花板確認的批准。這樣，已經有6個蛀牙自然填充了。

Regarding the financial provision, the total provision for the Alagoas event was about BRL17.5 billion, of which about BRL13.1 billion have already been disbursed. And approximately BRL439 million have been recorded in other obligations payable. Therefore, the total balance provisioned at the end of the second quarter of 2025 was BRL4.7 billion, 8% lower than the balance at the end of the first quarter of 2025. Now let's move on to the next slide.

在財政撥款方面，阿拉戈斯州賽事總撥款約175億雷亞爾，其中約131億雷亞爾已撥付。另有約 4.39 億巴西雷亞爾記錄在其他應付債務。因此，2025 年第二季末撥備總額為 47 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2025 年第一季末的餘額低 8%。現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。

In the second quarter of 2025, despite the greater working capital management when compared to the previous quarter due to the resilience measures implemented, the company presented a cash consumption of BRL175 million, given the results presented in the quarter. The lower recurring cash consumption when compared to the previous quarter of approximately BRL1 billion was mainly interested by lower semiannual interest payments on the debt securities issued in the international market by the company, which are concentrated in the first and third quarters of the year. Considering the disbursements from the company presented a cash consumption of BRL1.5 billion. Now let's move on to the next slide.

2025 年第二季度，儘管由於實施了復原措施，與上一季相比營運資本管理有所增加，但根據本季度的業績，公司的現金消耗為 1.75 億巴西雷亞爾。與上一季約 10 億巴西雷亞爾相比，經常性現金消耗較低，主要是因為該公司在國際市場上發行的債務證券的半年利息支付較低，集中在今年第一季和第三季。考慮到該公司的支出，現金消耗量為 15 億巴西雷亞爾。現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。

Braskem ended the second quarter of the year, maintaining an extended profile of its corporate debt with an average maturity of 9 years and 68% of the debt concentrated as of 2030. Considering the company's liquidity level, the available cash of $1.8 billion is sufficient to cover its obligations for the next 30 months, without considering the available international credit line in the amount of $1 billion. Finally, the corporate leverage stood at 10.59 times at the end of the second quarter of 2025 due to the lower -- lowest EBITDA in the last 12 months.

截至今年第二季度，巴西石化公司維持了其企業債務的長期狀況，平均期限為 9 年，68% 的債務集中在 2030 年。考慮到該公司的流動性水平，18億美元的可用現金足以支付其未來30個月的債務，而無需考慮10億美元的可用國際信貸額度。最後，由於過去 12 個月的 EBITDA 較低（最低），企業槓桿率在 2025 年第二季末為 10.59 倍。

Following our agenda, we will move on to the next slide. Thus, we conclude the overview of the second quarter of 2025. And I will now comment on the company's resilience and transformation program.

按照我們的議程，我們將繼續看下一張投影片。至此，我們完成了2025年第二季的概述。現在我將對公司的復原力和轉型計劃進行評論。

The outlook for the international petrochemical industry remains challenged in the coming years, where by 2030, China will continue making significant investments in the expansion of ethylene and propylene chains using various feedstocks. This represents a significant increase in installed capacity with more than 40 new crackers planned, increasing ethylene capacity by about 100 million tons and propylene by around 70 million tons, which we reinforces the expectation of oversupply and increased idleness in the sector. The average either rate of ethylene production without considering a rationalization of the industry already shows an upward trend, and the data projects a growing gap between supply and demand by the end of the decade, which will put pressure on the margins of the entire industry. Next slide.

未來幾年國際石化產業前景仍充滿挑戰，到2030年，中國將繼續對使用各種原料的乙烯和丙烯鏈的擴建進行大量投資。這意味著裝置容量大幅增加，計劃新建 40 多個裂解裝置，使乙烯產能增加約 1 億噸，丙烯產能增加約 7,000 萬噸，這強化了該行業供應過剩和閒置率增加的預期。不考慮產業合理化因素，乙烯平均生產力已呈現上升趨勢，數據預測到2020年供需缺口將持續擴大，這將對整個產業的利潤率造成壓力。下一張投影片。

In a challenging chemical and petrochemical scenario, it's important to highlight the importance of the chemical industry for Brazil. The national chemical industry is home to the fourth largest chemical industry in the world, responsible for 11% of the industrial GDP and occupying the third position among the largest industrial sectors in the country.

在充滿挑戰的化工和石化領域，強調化學工業對巴西的重要性非常重要。全國化學工業是世界第四大化學工業，佔全國工業GDP的11%，在全國各大工業部門中排名第三。

The chain generates 2 million direct and indirect jobs and is present in practically all segments of the economy from fertilizers to pharmaceuticals, from personal hygiene to pesticides. In addition, it's an important competitive advantage the production of chemical inputs in Brazil is now the cleanest in the world with carbon emissions up to 51% lower than those of the main international industries.

該產業鏈創造了200萬個直接和間接就業崗位，幾乎涵蓋了從化肥到藥品、從個人衛生到殺蟲劑的所有經濟領域。此外，巴西的化學品生產是目前世界上最乾淨的，碳排放量比主要國際產業低 51%，這是一個重要的競爭優勢。

However, despite its relevance and potential, the Brazilian chemical industry faces important structural challenges. Today, the industry operates with the highest level of idleness in the industry, reflecting the growing pressure from imports and an uncompetitive cost structure. In the case of the Brazilian petrochemical company, the production based on naphtha will continue to present a growing gap in competitiveness in relation to ethane, challenging the margins for the producers who use naphtha as a feedstock. Now let's move on to the next slide.

然而，儘管巴西化學工業具有重要意義和潛力，但它面臨著嚴重的結構性挑戰。如今，該產業的閒置率是業界最高的，反映出進口壓力日益增大以及成本結構缺乏競爭力。就巴西石化公司而言，以石腦油為基礎的生產與乙烷的競爭力差距將繼續擴大，對使用石腦油作為原料的生產商的利潤構成挑戰。現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。

In this context, Braskem remains committed to the execution of the initiatives that out in its resilience and transformation program. with a focus on overcoming the structural challenges of the global petrochemical industry and the national chemical sector. In this scenario, the company has been implementing initiatives aimed at sustainable value generation with an emphasis on maximizing EBITDA and generating greater cash. Now moving on to the next slide.

在此背景下，巴西石化公司將繼續致力於執行其復原力和轉型計畫中的舉措，重點是克服全球石化產業和國家化工產業的結構性挑戰。在這種情況下，該公司一直在實施旨在創造永續價值的舉措，重點是最大化 EBITDA 和產生更多現金。現在轉到下一張投影片。

Regarding initiatives related to the defense of the Brazilian chemical industry, Braskem together with ABIQUIM and other companies operating in the sector, reinforces the importance of implementing mechanisms to protect the marginal industry in order to ensure greater competitive balance. As an example, Bill 892/25 stands out, which establishes the special sustainability program for the chemical industry. Presiq promoting the sustainability and competitiveness of the sector through fiscal incentives. Braskem refirm its support for the approval of the project recognizing it as an essential measure to strengthen the entire production chain.

關於保護巴西化學工業的舉措，巴西石化公司與 ABIQUIM 以及其他在該行業運營的公司一起強調了實施保護邊緣產業的機制的重要性，以確保更大的競爭平衡。例如，第 892/25 號法案引人注目，該法案為化學工業制定了專門的可持續發展計劃。Presiq 透過財政激勵措施促進該行業的可持續性和競爭力。巴西石化公司重申支持該計畫的批准，認為這是加強整個生產鏈的重要措施。

Additionally, with the proximity of the end of the special regime for the chemical industry rate scheduled for the end of 2026, it's urgent to adopt measures to ensure the competitiveness of the Brazilian chemical industry in the face of the structural and contractual challenges of the sector.

此外，隨著化學工業特殊稅率制度將於2026年底結束，迫切需要採取措施確保巴西化學工業在該行業面臨的結構性和合約挑戰中的競爭力。

For Braskem, the resumption of the tax credit on the purchase of feedstocks to the level of 8.25% rate originally approved in the implementation of REIQ in 2013, represents an opportunity for competitive quality, creating value for the entire chain and for the country. Additionally, with the end of REIQ, the proposal would be the institution of a new financial regime between 2025 and 2029 with incentives for purchase of feedstocks and for the expansion of the production capacity.

對於巴西石化公司來說，恢復原料採購稅收抵免至2013年實施REIQ時最初批准的8.25%的水平，代表著提高產品品質競爭力、為整個產業鍊和國家創造價值的機會。此外，隨著 REIQ 的結束，提案將在 2025 年至 2029 年間建立新的金融制度，鼓勵購買原料和擴大生產能力。

At the same time, the approval of antidumping measures is essential to correct market distortions and protect the domestic market, especially in the face of the growing pressure caused by the increase in imports made with unfair pricing practices. Several countries such as the United States, Europe and China and South Korea have already implemented robust policies and courage to the chemical industry with trillions of dollars in subsidies, support for innovation and trade defense mechanisms. Although each adopts specific strategies, they all share the same goal to strengthen the chemical industry and essential basis for several other production chains in addition to generating significant multiplier effects for their economies. Now let's move on to the next slide.

同時，批准反傾銷措施對於糾正市場扭曲、保護國內市場至關重要，特別是在面臨不公平定價行為導致的進口增加所帶來的越來越大的壓力的情況下。美國、歐洲、中國和韓國等多個國家已經對化學工業實施了強有力的政策和勇氣，提供了數萬億美元的補貼、創新支援和貿易防禦機制。儘管各國採取的策略各不相同，但其目標都是一致的，即加強化學工業和其他幾條生產鏈的重要基礎，並為本國經濟產生顯著的乘數效應。現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。

Within the transformation pillar, the optimization of naphtha-based assets is one of the company's objectives, aiming firstly to maximize the utilization rate of the most competitive production lines, such as the one in Rio de Janeiro, which operated at 95% in the last quarter. Another advance was the approval of resources via REIQ investments of initiatives that enable the expansion of the capacity of PVC assets in Alagoas. Meanwhile, the company is also evaluating the hibernation of the least competitive production lines globally, which considers the criteria such as plant age, technology use, production cost, scale and operational synergies aiming at a greater efficiency and profitability. Now let's move on to the next slide.

在轉型支柱中，優化石腦油資產是該公司的目標之一，首先旨在最大限度地提高最具競爭力的生產線的利用率，例如裡約熱內盧的生產線，該生產線上第一季的利用率達到 95%。另一項進展是，透過 REIQ 投資計畫批准了資源，從而擴大了阿拉戈斯州 PVC 資產的產能。同時，該公司也在全球範圍內評估暫停競爭力最弱的生產線，考慮的標準包括工廠年齡、技術使用、生產成本、規模和營運協同效應，旨在提高效率和獲利能力。現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。

In relation to this front, we will seek to enable the expansion of our gas-based assets with a focus on greater competitiveness and the resilience of the business. by expanding the use of more competitive feedstock. This includes projects to expand gas-based capacity, the expansion of the flexibility of petrochemical plants in Brazil and initiatives that ensure the operational stability of our crackers, such as the recent expansion of our own fleet dedicated to transport ethane between the United States, Brazil and Mexico.

在這方面，我們將尋求擴大我們的天然氣資產，重點是透過擴大使用更具競爭力的原料來提高競爭力和業務彈性。其中包括擴大天然氣產能的項目、擴大巴西石化工廠的靈活性以及確保我們裂解裝置運作穩定性的舉措，例如最近擴大我們自己的船隊，專門用於在美國、巴西和墨西哥之間運輸乙烷。

As an example of an initiative to expand gas-based assets is Transforma Rio, a project to increase the capacity of the -- capacity of the petrochemical complex in Rio de Janeiro by 230,000 tons with equivalent expansions of the -- so far, BRL233 million have been approved for the contracting of conceptual base engineering studies.

擴大天然氣資產計畫的一個例子是 Transforma Rio，該計畫旨在將裡約熱內盧石化綜合體的產能提高 23 萬噸，同時擴大產能——到目前為止，已批准 2.33 億巴西雷亞爾用於承包概念基礎工程研究。

The final investment decision of the project is conditioned to the signing of a long-term gain supply contract, and the use of resources within the scope of rate investment. In addition to promoting greater competitiveness for the company, the project has potential to unlock important social economic benefits for the region, such as increased revenue and national collection in addition to the need for around 7,500 jobs during its execution. Now let's move on to the final slide.

專案最終投資決策以簽訂長期收益供應合同，使用費率投資範圍內的資源為條件。除了提高公司的競爭力之外，該項目還有可能為該地區帶來重要的社會經濟效益，例如增加收入和國家徵收額，並在實施期間創造約 7,500 個就業機會。現在讓我們來看最後一張投影片。

To conclude, I would like to reinforce our priorities that guide our actions in 2025. We will continue to advance in the transformation of our assets with a focus on competitiveness, efficiency and sustainability. This journey is essential to ensure the resilience of our business in the face of the challenge of the sector. At the same time, implementing agency initiatives for the petrochemical cycle with special attention to the financial preservation and cash flow management, ensuring solidity and responsibility in our decisions.

最後，我想強調指導我們2025年行動的優先事項。我們將繼續推動資產轉型，專注於競爭力、效率和永續性。這趟旅程對於確保我們的業務在面對產業挑戰時具有韌性至關重要。同時，實施石化循環的機構舉措，特別關注財務保全和現金流管理，確保決策的穩健性和責任感。

We will also continue our work in the competitiveness agenda of the Brazilian chemical industry, seeking measures to promote competitive quality and strengthen the sector as a whole. And finally, we will maintain our commitment to the agreement signed in Maceió, fulfilling each stage with transparency and responsibility. All this without giving up safe actions in our operations. Safety is and will continue to be a nonnegotiable value in our strategy, guiding Braskem's every action and decision.

我們也將繼續致力於巴西化學工業的競爭力議程，尋求提高競爭力和加強整個產業的措施。最後，我們將履行在馬塞奧簽署的協議的承諾，透明、負責地完成每個階段的工作。所有這一切都沒有放棄我們在營運中的安全行動。安全現在是、並將繼續是我們策略中不可協商的價值，指導巴西石化公司的每一個行動和決定。

Thus, we conclude the presentation of Braskem's results for the second quarter of 2025. Thank you very much for everyone's attention. We will now start the Q&A session.

因此，我們結束了巴西石化公司 2025 年第二季業績的介紹。非常感謝大家的關注。我們現在開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Gabriel Barra, Citi.

花旗銀行的加布里埃爾·巴拉 (Gabriel Barra)。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two of them.

大家好。感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個。

We discussed a lot about measures to improve the company's results and how to improve resiliency. And when we look at micro numbers and spreads, as you mentioned, there is a longer delay in recovery for the spreads than we had expected. This is, in fact, taking longer than we imagined. And the company's leveraging peaked at almost 3x this quarter. I know there's matters related to costs, but this is rather high leveraging in our perspective, and this does make us a little concerned about the leverage rate in the company's bottom line.

我們討論了很多關於改善公司績效的措施以及如何提高彈性。當我們觀察微觀數字和利差時，如您所提到的，利差的恢復時間比我們預期的要長。事實上，這比我們想像的要花更長的時間。本季該公司的槓桿率達到峰值，接近 3 倍。我知道存在與成本相關的問題，但從我們的角度來看，這是相當高的槓桿率，這確實讓我們有點擔心公司底線的槓桿率。

And also on the topic of the recent interview that the company gave talking about sales of assets and bringing in a potential partner for green production. I'd like to see if Roberto or Felipe perhaps can tell us a little bit about how you can work in a more difficult and compressed spread scenario and bring the company to a healthier portfolio. You mentioned a lot about green, but could you also talk about other assets that may be discussed or perhaps about rationalizing capacity? And what is the route to improve the company's leverage over the coming years?

並且談到了公司最近接受採訪時談到的資產出售和引入潛在綠色生產合作夥伴的問題。我想看看 Roberto 或 Felipe 是否可以告訴我們如何在更困難和壓縮的利差情況下工作，並使公司擁有更健康的投資組合。您多次提到綠色，但能否談談其他可能討論的資產或合理化產能？未來幾年提高公司槓桿率的途徑是什麼？

The second question, I think, is inevitable, but we must discuss the company's control. I know it's complicated for you, but we must comment also about the recent press conference you gave with regard to Petrobras. Could you give us an update about how these discussions are going with annuities and the different investment plans and perspectives and so on? I think you've also looked at other players as well and their proposals, could you give us an update -- a broader update about how these discussions are going. It would help us to understand more about the future of the company and this context of the divestment of Novonor over the past two years. Thank you.

第二個問題我覺得也是不可避免的，但是我必須討論公司的控制權。我知道這對您來說很複雜，但我們也必須對您最近就巴西石油公司舉行的新聞發布會發表評論。您能否向我們介紹有關年金、不同投資計畫和觀點等的討論進度？我想您也已經考慮過其他參與者及其提議，您能否向我們提供最新消息——更廣泛地介紹一下這些討論的進展情況。這將有助於我們更多地了解該公司的未來以及過去兩年剝離 Novonor 的背景。謝謝。

Hi. Can you hear me? All right. Thank you. Thank you, Gabriel. Good afternoon once again.

你好。你聽得到我嗎？好的。謝謝。謝謝你，加布里埃爾。再次下午好。

With regard to the company's financial status, in fact, as you aptly put it, it's a double-digit leverage rate largely not due to debt but due to non-fulfillment of EBITDA. As we've discussed over the half of the year and recently in the conference call, there are a number of measures that we can bring in to bring these levels to lower numbers. And they are things we look at in our strategy, and they largely involve growing our EBITDA.

至於公司的財務狀況，事實上，正如您所說，其兩位數的槓桿率很大程度上不是由於債務，而是由於未實現 EBITDA。正如我們在過去半年和最近的電話會議中所討論的那樣，我們可以採取一些措施來降低這些水準。這些都是我們在策略中考慮的事情，它們主要涉及提高我們的 EBITDA。

We have a transformation plan called fly up to green and switch to gas which is going to significantly improve our productivity and as a result, generate EBITDA for the company and consequently, give us more comfortable levels when it comes to leverage. But part of that strategy also involves, as you mentioned, liquidity initiatives for the company that touch on not just the measures that we've just presented with regard to competitive standing, competitive quality with regard to the Brazilian petrochemical industry so that we can remain on the growth agenda and impact positively on the EBITDA. But also, as you mentioned, Gabriel, the company is not focused on selling assets to generate cash as long as there's something more important, which is the transformation plan.

我們有一個轉型計劃，稱為“飛行升級為綠色能源並轉為天然氣”，這將顯著提高我們的生產力，從而為公司創造 EBITDA，從而使我們在槓桿方面處於更舒適的水平。但正如您所提到的，該策略的一部分還涉及公司的流動性舉措，這些舉措不僅涉及我們剛剛提出的有關巴西石化行業競爭地位和競爭質量的措施，以便我們能夠繼續保持增長議程並對 EBITDA 產生積極影響。但是，正如您所提到的，加布里埃爾，只要有更重要的事情，即轉型計劃，公司就不會專注於出售資產來獲取現金。

So assets, and we've always said this, Roberto has said this, all of our conversations over this time, assets that are not necessarily directly linked to the company's future, which is our transformation plan, they may potentially be monetized in part or in whole and thereby generate some cash for the company. Of course, this in times when our liquidity is tighter, this becomes more important, but this is not a sale that is solely focused on that. It's actually part of a much greater and more structured plan, which is our transformation plan. And so these are parts of the transformation plan that remain tightly connected to everything we've been discussing about with you when it comes to a potential reduction in shareholder stake in any one of these assets.

因此，資產，我們一直這麼說，羅伯託也這麼說，我們這段時間的所有談話中，那些不一定與公司未來直接相關的資產，也就是我們的轉型計劃，它們可能會部分或全部貨幣化，從而為公司帶來一些現金。當然，在我們的流動性緊張的時候，這一點變得更加重要，但這並不是只關注這一點的銷售。它實際上是一個更大、更有條理的計劃的一部分，即我們的轉型計劃。因此，這些都是轉型計劃的一部分，當涉及任何一項資產的股東持股可能減少時，它們與我們與您討論的所有內容緊密相關。

I'll take the second question. Just to remind you, Gabriel, in classic situations like this one, what we aim to do is to manage working capital as well as we can. So we work with our suppliers to lengthen payment plans and work with clients to tighten our receivables plans. So we have a number of different initiatives. They are all being pursued very diligently. And it's relevant to mention that at the price level for resins today, levels that are imposed by the growing imports of products that arrive here at levels lower than their practice in their respective countries where they're produced, well, this is an imbalance that must be corrected. And so it depends on us to show the severity of this to the Brazilian government and for them to make the necessary measures.

我來回答第二個問題。加布里埃爾，只是想提醒你，在像這樣的典型情況下，我們的目標是盡可能地管理好營運資金。因此，我們與供應商合作延長付款計劃，並與客戶合作收緊應收帳款計劃。因此我們採取了許多不同的措施。他們都正在被非常努力地追求。值得一提的是，在當今樹脂的價格水平上，由於進口產品不斷增加，導致進口價格低於其生產國的價格，這是一種必須糾正的不平衡。因此，我們必須向巴西政府表明此事的嚴重性，並要求他們採取必要的措施。

With regard to the sales of Novonor and with regard to Braskem, it's important to remind everyone that when you have a company interested in purchasing the other, the purchasing company researches the company they're interested in purchasing. That's the due diligence process. Now as part of the due diligence process, it's inevitable that you will have a management presentation or the management size, in other words, a presentation to the future purchasing company's management presenting your plans and how things are going. And this is what we have done, and it's what we always do whenever such a situation arises. There's nothing special.

關於 Novonor 和 Braskem 的銷售，需要提醒大家的是，當有一家公司有興趣收購另一家公司時，收購公司會研究他們有興趣收購的公司。這就是盡職調查過程。現在，作為盡職調查過程的一部分，您不可避免地會進行管理演示或管理規模演示，換句話說，向未來購買公司的管理層進行演示，介紹您的計劃以及事情的進展。這就是我們所做的，每當出現這種情況時我們都會這樣做。沒什麼特別的。

Now I always repeat this. And unfortunately, I cannot make my message be correctly received, but we are not part of those negotiations. We are not party to these meetings and discussions because we cannot control the Braskem shares that are owned by other shareholders. That's up to the individual shareholders, the banks or the other companies. I can speculate, but I mean, everyone can speculate.

現在我總是重複這一點。不幸的是，我無法讓別人正確接收我的訊息，但我們不是這些談判的一部分。我們不是這些會議和討論的參與者，因為我們無法控制其他股東持有的巴西石化股份。這取決於個人股東、銀行或其他公司。我可以推測，但我的意思是，每個人都可以推測。

I know that there is a level of exclusivity that was granted, which I believe expires on August 20 something. And we are waiting to see whether or not this operation or the trade will be completed, and our schedule, our day-to-day is significantly occupied by our business, so we really can't waste a lot of our time mulling over the stopping.

我知道已經授予了一定程度的獨家經營權，我相信該權利將於 8 月 20 日左右到期。我們正在等待看這項操作或交易是否會完成，我們的日程安排和日常工作都被業務佔據了，所以我們真的不能浪費太多時間來考慮停止。

I always say this, whatever shareholder comes to control Braskem, the challenges that they will encounter are the same ones we have to date. And resolving those challenges involves our management, our capacity to implement the necessary solutions. So therefore, wasting our internal time and energy trying to become involved in a negotiation that does not truly pertain to the company but instead to its shareholders, does not really add value, it actually consumes a lot of our energy.

我總是這麼說，無論哪個股東來控制巴西石化公司，他們所面臨的挑戰與我們迄今所面臨的挑戰是一樣的。解決這些挑戰需要我們的管理以及我們實施必要解決方案的能力。因此，浪費我們的內部時間和精力試圖參與與公司無關而是與股東有關的談判，實際上並沒有增加價值，實際上卻消耗了我們大量的精力。

Excellent answer. Thank you, Roberto and Felipe.

非常好的答案。謝謝你，羅伯托和費利佩。

Tasso Vasconcellos, UBS.

瑞銀的 Tasso Vasconcellos。

Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions.

大家好。午安.感謝您回答我的問題。

Roberto, on the topic of your last comment, and also with the interview you gave earlier, you mentioned that a new controlling shareholder could potentially revise some of the company's plans. So where do you see greater room for these changes, some kind of geography change or in the company's business model or the product mix, or I don't know, are there other locations where this type of change and more drastic ones can occur? And also along those lines, what impact might those changes have to the process, whether that is in use or burn of our cash or in improvements to operations in the very short term?

羅伯托，關於您上次評論的話題，以及您之前接受的採訪，您提到新的控股股東可能會修改公司的一些計劃。那麼您認為這些變化在哪些方面有更大的空間，是某種地理變化，還是公司的商業模式或產品組合的變化，或者我不知道，是否有其他地方可以發生這種類型的變化以及更劇烈的變化？此外，沿著這個思路，這些變化會對流程產生什麼影響，無論是在使用或消耗現金，還是在短期內改善營運？

And the second question, which is I think, for Felipe. The company burned cash in the order of BRL700 million in the first half of this year. So what is your perspective or your forecast for the second half of the year? Is the company perhaps going to be more cash neutral closer to the end of the year or are we still going to work under a scenario where the company continues to have a little bit of cash burn? And is there a significant improvement of spreads without the government's intervention such as REIQ proceed antidumping for 2026? Those are my questions. Thank you.

第二個問題，我認為是針對費利佩的。今年上半年該公司消耗了約7億雷亞爾現金。那麼，您對今年下半年的看法或預測是什麼？到年底，公司的現金狀況是否會更加中性，還是我們仍將在公司繼續少量燒錢的情況下開展工作？如果沒有政府介入（例如 REIQ 在 2026 年進行反傾銷），利差是否會顯著改善？這些都是我的問題。謝謝。

Hi, Tasso. I mentioned that in theory, because any future controlling shareholder that comes to have control over the company, will have the right to analyze and criticize the company's actions. I'm convinced that our strategy is the best strategy applied to our reality because it focuses on neutralizing our weaknesses and maximizing our strengths. So minimizing or neutralizing our weaknesses means pacing consumption of naphtha as feedstock and starting to consume a more profitable feedstock. And in terms of emphasizing our strengths, I have a SWOT analysis in my head. We have to minimize weaknesses and threats and maximize strengths and opportunities.

你好，塔索。我提到這一點只是理論上的，因為任何未來控制公司的控股股東都有權分析和批評公司的行為。我確信我們的策略是適合我們現實的最佳策略，因為它專注於消除我們的弱點並最大限度地發揮我們的優勢。因此，盡量減少或消除我們的弱點意味著控製石腦油作為原料的消耗，並開始消耗更有利可圖的原料。在強調我們的優勢方面，我心裡有一個 SWOT 分析。我們必須盡量減少弱點和威脅，盡量擴大優勢和機會。

So in terms of maximizing strength, that's about our migration to green. That means increasingly ramp up production of green products, probably ethylene, but not just polyethylene, and adjusting production of fossil-based products to our success in converting the NASA to gas basis. I'm talking about periods here. But in my mind, in my perspective, that's the best strategy that Braskem can pursue.

因此，就最大限度地提高實力而言，這就是我們向綠色轉型的過程。這意味著不斷提高綠色產品的產量，可能是乙烯，但不僅僅是聚乙烯，並根據我們將 NASA 轉換為天然氣基礎的成功來調整化石基產品的生產。我在這裡談論的是月經。但在我看來，從我的角度來看，這是巴西石化公司可以採取的最佳策略。

This does not necessarily mean I am utterly correct. It could be that some potential new shareholder could wish to emphasize one area or another. I was talking about period. I was not talking specifically about one particular point that could be highlighted or down regulated.

這並不一定意味著我完全正確。一些潛在的新股東可能希望強調某個領域。我剛才說的是經期。我並不是專門談論可以強調或調低的某個特定觀點。

Now with regard to financial health and banks, investors and analysts, our strategy, given the industry's status, now I should mention that the industry constantly consumes cash for two years now. That's not just Braskem, our major international competitors, I won't name them, all have significant cash consumption year after year and an increase of other metrics. They ran into some problems. And we ran into problems that they didn't occur, which pertains to the salt mine.

現在關於財務健康狀況和銀行、投資者和分析師，我們的策略，考慮到行業的現狀，現在我應該提到，該行業兩年來一直在消耗現金。不只是巴西石化公司，我們的主要國際競爭對手，我就不點名了，他們每年的現金消耗量都很大，其他指標也在增加。他們遇到了一些問題。我們遇到了一些與鹽礦有關的未發生的問題。

And this includes the Chinese competitors. They're building 32 tons of ethylene, and yet they're running their plants at under 70% utilization rate because they overbuild plants and the market hasn't absorbed that much material. So we remain with our strategy with the awareness that it is the correct strategy.

其中包括中國競爭對手。他們正在建造 32 噸乙烯，然而由於工廠建設過度，而市場尚未吸收那麼多乙烯，因此工廠的利用率卻不到 70%。因此，我們堅持我們的策略，並意識到這是正確的策略。

And if such a time comes when a new shareholder, controlling shareholder changes our strategy and calls upon us to change our back, so we will do. This doesn't mean that any of these strategies are more correct than ours. What we need to do is to spend less to improve the performance of our plants and to seek out products that give us better EBITDA, and that is exactly what we're doing.

如果出現這樣的情況，新的股東、控股股東改變了我們的策略，要求我們改變策略，我們就會照做。這並不意味著這些策略中的任何一個都比我們的策略更正確。我們需要做的是花更少的錢來提高工廠的性能，並尋找能為我們帶來更好 EBITDA 的產品，而這正是我們正在做的事情。

Perfect. And on the topic of what Roberto said, which is exactly the answer to your second question, Tasso, yes, we should still consume some cash in the second half of the year. Less so than in the first half, largely based on all of these measures we've been discussing, announcing and really hammering on about with regards to improving productivity, improving initiatives to improve our feedstocks and energy inputs at these plants. And as we've mentioned, performing other potential improvement measures, whether they are creating our green business, improving creation of our green businesses, making sure that it has the necessary resources to expand and to ensure that all of them will create cash.

完美的。關於羅伯託所說的話題，這正是你第二個問題的答案，塔索，是的，我們下半年仍然應該消耗一些現金。與上半年相比有所減少，這主要基於我們一直在討論、宣布和大力推行的有關提高生產力、改進舉措以改善這些工廠的原料和能源投入的所有這些措施。正如我們所提到的，我們正在執行其他潛在的改進措施，無論是創建我們的綠色業務，還是改進我們的綠色業務的創建，確保它擁有擴張所需的資源，並確保所有這些都能創造現金。

If not by the end of this year, at the longest in the very short or medium term so that we can deleverage, improve our EBITDA and reduce our consumption of cash in the more immediate term. This is a major focus of ours.

如果不是在今年年底之前，最長也在短期或中期內實現，以便我們能夠在更短期內去槓桿、提高我們的 EBITDA 並減少現金消耗。這是我們關注的一個重點。

We are involved in all of these measures, whether that's through or economic value or liquidity or different financial measures that allow the company to reduce the cash consumption within 2025 because both spreads and volume forecasts are not going to be very different for the second half of the year than they were in the first half of the year. As a result, our ability to generate operating cash within the company is something we are going to focus on through all of these initiatives.

我們參與了所有這些措施，無論是透過經濟價值、流動性還是不同的財務措施，這些措施都允許公司在 2025 年內減少現金消耗，因為下半年的利差和交易量預測與上半年相比不會有太大差異。因此，我們將透過所有這些措施重點關注公司內部產生營運現金的能力。

Excellent. Thank you. That's very clear.

出色的。謝謝。這非常清楚。

Vicente Falanga, Bradesco BBI.

文森法蘭加 (Vicente Falanga)，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Thank you, Roberto, Felipe, and Rosana. Thanks for the call. I have two questions.

謝謝你，Roberto、Felipe 和 Rosana。謝謝您的來電。我有兩個問題。

I'd like to understand the main takeaway that the company has sent to bondholders. The bonds are trading under 70 at face value. I know that there's many bonds coming to term, but most are in 2028. For my second question, I'd like to understand whether today, you see the assets that Braskem purchased in the US such as Dow among other. And strategic back in 2010 and 2012, the company really wished to increase its participation in the US, for instance, through the cracker project in Philadelphia, and for a number of reasons, that didn't occur. So I'd like to understand how strategic these assets are within the company's strengths portfolio. Thank you.

我想了解公司向債券持有人傳達的主要訊息。該債券的交易價格低於面額 70。我知道有很多債券即將到期，但大多數債券的到期日是 2028 年。對於我的第二個問題，我想了解今天您是否看到巴西石化公司在美國購買的資產，例如陶氏化學等。早在2010年和2012年，該公司就曾策略性地希望增加其在美國市場的參與度，例如透過費城的裂解項目，但由於多種原因，這一目標並未實現。所以我想了解這些資產在公司優勢組合中具有怎樣的策略意義。謝謝。

With regard to our US plants, they are an integral part of our strategy. Maintaining these plants in the US is of essential importance for us because that is where 2 of our 3 main laboratories are located. The Pittsburgh laboratory, which is focused on technology products and catalysts for polypropylene, especially but also polyethylene and the Lexington laboratory, which is focused on our line of green product.

就我們的美國工廠而言，它們是我們戰略不可或缺的一部分。維護美國境內的這些工廠對我們來說至關重要，因為我們的三個主要實驗室中的兩個都位於美國。匹茲堡實驗室專注於聚丙烯（尤其是聚乙烯）的技術產品和催化劑，而列剋星敦實驗室則專注於我們的綠色產品系列。

Along these lines, one of our projects is to produce green polypropylene in the US based on corn ethanol and therefore, the plants there are essential for us to process propylene or propane, the green propylene that we would then create. So we have no doubt that these plants are essential for us. And I'm personally not a fan of thinking about selling assets to amortized debt.

沿著這些思路，我們的項目之一是在美國以玉米乙醇為基礎生產綠色聚丙烯，因此，那裡的工廠對於我們加工丙烯或丙烷（隨後我們將生產綠色丙烯）至關重要。所以我們毫不懷疑這些植物對我們來說至關重要。我個人不贊成將資產賣給攤銷債務。

Now with regard to the bonds, as you mentioned -- as you asked, Braskem as a conversion plan for gas and for green that involve investments, very large investments. For instance, just one of them involves a $700 million investment. So to finance that, you will finance that through a bank financing, you're in construction. But after construction, you necessarily must migrate to long-term financing to match the assets and funding in terms of terms. You can't mismatch short, long-term funding or financing.

現在關於債券，正如您所提到的 - 您所問的，巴西石化公司作為天然氣和綠色能源的轉換計劃，涉及投資，非常大的投資。例如，其中一項就涉及7億美元的投資。因此，為了籌集資金，您將透過銀行融資來籌集資金，您正在從事建設工作。但建設完成後，必須轉為長期融資，在條款上配對資產和資金。你不能錯配短期、長期資金或融資。

So whether we use bank financing or own financing, we need to migrate to capital. So any type of migration that would be done with Braskem's debt, now this would be considering that Braskem would need to reprofile its debt and this would prevent us from getting access to this capital market. And this would impede us from our transformation plan and the investments we must perform. So in terms of financial technical discussions, it makes no sense to reprofile Braskem's debt.

所以不管我們用銀行融資還是自有融資，我們都需要遷移到資本。因此，對於巴西石化公司的債務進行的任何類型轉移，現在都會考慮到巴西石化公司需要重新配置其債務，這將阻止我們進入這個資本市場。這將阻礙我們的轉型計劃和必須進行的投資。因此，從財務技術討論的角度來看，重新規劃巴西石化公司的債務是沒有意義的。

Furthermore, I believe that this is a mistaken diagnosis. Braskem's problem is not the size of its debt but its current EBITDA. It is resolved by increasing our EBITDA, and we increased EBITDA through all of these resiliency measures and tariff and commercial protections that we aim to obtain from the government. This will increase Braskem's EBITDA to the levels that we had five or six years ago. And as a result, our net EBITDA ratio will stop being relevant.

此外，我認為這是錯誤的診斷。巴西石化公司的問題不在於其債務規模，而在於其當前的息稅折舊攤提前利潤 (EBITDA)。這個問題透過增加我們的 EBITDA 來解決，我們透過所有這些彈性措施以及我們希望從政府獲得的關稅和商業保護來增加 EBITDA。這將使巴西石化公司的 EBITDA 恢復到五、六年前的水準。因此，我們的淨 EBITDA 比率將不再具有相關性。

In 2028, Braskem's EBITDA level will be much higher than it is today. So for me, in my opinion, this is a very superficial view of Braskem. And it's about bringing in a medication or a wrong diagnosis, and if you know finance, this is not the right diagnosis.

2028 年，巴西石化公司的 EBITDA 水準將遠高於現在。因此，在我看來，這是對巴西石化公司非常膚淺的看法。這涉及藥物治療或錯誤診斷，如果你懂金融，你就會知道這不是正確的診斷。

Thank you, Roberto. That was very clear.

謝謝你，羅伯托。這非常清楚。

Bruno Montanari, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的布魯諾蒙塔納裡。

Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I'd like to follow up on some of the topics that were discussed.

大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我想跟進討論過的一些話題。

I think Vicente's last question is due to a headline that was published recently that said you may be thinking of selling the US assets, but based on your response, I can see that, that is not the case. So I'd just like to double check whether it is totally out of the question.

我認為維森特的最後一個問題是由於最近發表的一則頭條新聞，稱您可能正在考慮出售美國資產，但根據您的回答，我認為事實並非如此。因此我只是想再確認一下這是否完全不可能。

And another topic along those lines on the topic of restructuring the portfolio and reassessing strategies. This is something we've seen discussions for some time now, quite some time now. Currently, no real structural changes have occurred. So my question is about timing. What do you see in terms of execution for performing that transformation, given that the leverage rate has reached numbers that are kind of critical in the double-digit rate?

另一個主題是關於重組投資組合和重新評估策略。我們已經討論了一段時間了，相當長一段時間了。目前，尚未發生真正的結構性變化。我的問題是關於時間的。鑑於槓桿率已達到兩位數的關鍵水平，您認為實施此轉型需要什麼條件？

And my second question, when we think about the government support for the industry as a whole, which makes sense. And you mentioned that various other regions have these types of incentives. However, your results in those regions where the incentives exist were worse than here in Brazil. So what types of additional measures would be needed in the US, Europe or Mexico for the company's results to improve?

我的第二個問題是，當我們考慮政府對整個產業的支持時，這是有道理的。您提到其他地區也有此類激勵措施。然而，在有激勵措施的地區，你們的表現卻比巴西更差。那麼，美國、歐洲或墨西哥需要採取哪些額外措施來改善公司的表現？

And if I may ask a third question, I understand that you are not party to the Novonor negotiations, but the company's management is involved in assessing Braskem's articles. So I'd like to ask you about tag along, the tag along clause and what in the company's opinion, would be a trigger for that to count as change of control? Would it be only the total divestment of Novonor or would it be Novonor-losing effective controlling status and becoming a minor shareholder?

如果我可以問第三個問題，我知道您不是 Novonor 談判的一方，但該公司的管理層參與了對 Braskem 條款的評估。所以我想問您關於跟隨條款的問題，以及公司認為什麼因素會觸發控制權變更？是僅僅徹底剝離 Novonor 還是讓 Novonor 失去有效控制地位並成為小股東？

Roberto, before I start on the topic of the assets, I want us to be very coherent about everything we do and everything we discuss. Again, everything comes down to our transformation plan that we have announced and have approved and have discussed exhaustively now by Roberto and -- that we have discussed at length and have received strong feedback that this is the route that many, many of the company's shareholders believe is the most correct way to address the challenges imposed by the fact that the global petrochemical industry is in. Given all of that, the existing assets, whether they are more aligned with the plan or less aligned with the plan they make always. And that's not just today. Stop being part of the company's portfolio in whole or in part.

羅伯托，在我開始討論資產話題之前，我希望我們對所做的每件事和討論的每件事保持高度一致。再說一遍，一切都歸結於我們已經宣布、批准並由羅伯托詳盡討論過的轉型計劃——我們已經詳細討論過該計劃，並收到了強烈的反饋，即許多公司股東認為這是應對全球石化行業所面臨的挑戰的最正確途徑。考慮到所有這些，現有資產無論是否與計劃更加一致還是與其製定的計劃不一致。而這不僅發生在今天。停止全部或部分成為該公司投資組合的一部分。

As Roberto mentioned, the question of the US-based laboratories, these laboratories are extremely important for the company's transformation plan. And so they are absolutely in line with our future and all the measures we put in line. The asset itself is without a doubt an important relevant asset has generated cash and EBITDA more strongly in the past and it is likely to grow again in the future. We're always going to assess them as long as that doesn't deviate us from our transformation plan, as Roberto also mentioned in the company's growth so that we can address our leveraging, which was also questioned by Gabriel's first question.

正如羅伯託所提到的美國實驗室的問題，這些實驗室對於公司的轉型計畫極為重要。因此，它們完全符合我們的未來以及我們採取的所有措施。該資產本身無疑是一項重要的相關資產，過去曾更強勁地產生現金和 EBITDA，並且未來很可能會再次成長。只要不偏離我們的轉型計劃，我們就會一直對它們進行評估，正如羅伯託在公司發展中提到的那樣，這樣我們就可以解決我們的槓桿問題，這也是加布里埃爾在第一個問題中提出的問題。

So it's important for us to be clear about this topic that everything results from our transformation plan. And things that are within or outside of the plan may be more or less susceptible to potential monetizations, be the partial or total depending on the assets we are discussing specifically.

因此，我們必須明確這一點：一切都源自於我們的轉型計畫。計劃之內或之外的事物可能或多或少地受到潛在貨幣化的影響，無論是部分還是全部，都取決於我們具體討論的資產。

With regard to the transformation, actually, many steps are being taken. We're not just discussing them. For instance, in Rio de Janeiro, we have Transforma Rio. It's one of the largest investments that has ever been announced in the Brazilian petrochemical industry. It is extremely relevant, and it's one of the key components of our transformation plan. It is in full steam.

關於轉型，實際上，我們正在採取許多措施。我們不只是在討論它們。例如，在裡約熱內盧，我們有 Transforma Rio。這是巴西石化產業迄今為止最大的投資之一。它極為重要，也是我們轉型計畫的關鍵組成部分之一。它正全速前進。

The BRL233 million plan. It's a BRL4 billion investment. There's a team with dozens upon dozens of people involved, along with Petrobras working specifically on this topic to make sure that all the expenses are accounted for, including rate expenses every month. So this is a project that is in full motion as well as our green project, as we've mentioned.

2.33億巴西雷亞爾的計畫。這是一項價值 40 億巴西雷亞爾的投資。有一個由數十人組成的團隊與巴西石油公司一起專門負責這個問題，以確保所有費用都得到核算，包括每月的費率費用。正如我們所提到的，這是一個正在全面推進的項目，也是我們的綠色項目。

It's currently at a reasonably advanced phase. We are looking at potential interested parties -- parties who may be interested in a share of our green company, which will be here in Rio Grande do Sul and Bahia as well as Thailand. This is a process that, as you well know, generally takes several months or more than a year to be completed. We began in late 2024 at full steam on the first half of the year. These players are engaging in their due diligence for these assets. So it's -- they are dedicated and the project is moving along very, very significantly.

目前它已處於相當先進的階段。我們正在尋找潛在的利益相關者——可能對我們綠色公司的股份感興趣的各方，該公司將位於南里奧格蘭德州、巴伊亞州和泰國。眾所周知，這個過程通常需要幾個月甚至一年以上的時間才能完成。我們從2024年底開始全心投入上半年的工作。這些參與者正在對這些資產進行盡職調查。所以，他們非常專注，專案進展非常順利。

There is also the topic of Alagoas as we've discussed here. This agenda has been exhaustively discussed and worked on with various different stakeholders, whether they're public, private, class, associations, all aiming to improve productivity of our PVC plant. And as a result, optimize our feedstocks which provide the necessary material for that plant to produce. There's also an BRL88 million investment in that plant to improve its productivity.

正如我們在這裡討論過的，還有阿拉戈斯的話題。我們與各種不同的利害關係人（無論是公共、私人、階級或協會）進行了詳細的討論和合作，旨在提高我們 PVC 工廠的生產力。從而優化我們的原料，為工廠生產提供必要的材料。該工廠還投資了 8,800 萬巴西雷亞爾以提高其生產力。

There are actually 2 major projects that were approved both for new technologies and for producing PVC itself, 15,000 tons. We have over 30,000 tons of PVC coming in. And all of that makes the set of these plants which had been suffering because of their technology and age as well, the age of some of their components, especially the provision of feedstocks which now makes that plant, this is actually very recently, this have a completely different profile than what occurred during the first half of the year. Actually, I would say that this has concluded these measures are now complete within our transformation plan.

實際上，有兩個大型項目獲得批准，一個是新技術項目，另一個是生產 15,000 噸 PVC 項目。我們有超過 30,000 噸 PVC 進口。所有這些都使得這些工廠由於其技術和年齡而遭受損失，它們的一些部件，特別是現在製造該工廠的原料供應，實際上是最近發生的，這與今年上半年發生的情況完全不同。實際上，我想說，這些措施在我們的轉型計劃中已經完成。

And lastly, before I pass the floor back to Roberto, the question you asked about whether or not there is a tag along. This is a highly legal question. As you mentioned, there is a clear definition in the company's articles, which is open for anyone who wants to read and interpret what is written there with regard to what does or does not trigger a tag along clause.

最後，在我將發言權交還給羅伯託之前，您問到的問題是是否有跟隨者。這是一個高度合法的問題。正如您所提到的，公司章程中有一個明確的定義，任何想要閱讀和解釋其中內容的人都可以了解哪些內容會觸發或不會觸發附加條款。

And as Roberto also mentioned, we are not currently spending our time to analyze that because if and when that occurs and moves forward and those proposals are officially submitted the banks that hold the Novonor as well with regard to any proposals that may come to be made with regard to the Novonor shares then at that time, if and when that occurs, we will discuss that. But again, this is a highly legal discussion, which, of course, will at some point need to be defined, but on our part, this is not something we are provoking or defining.

正如羅伯託所提到的，我們目前不會花時間去分析這一點，因為如果發生這種情況並取得進展，並且這些提案正式提交給持有 Novonor 的銀行，以及就 Novonor 股份可能提出的任何提案，那麼屆時，如果發生這種情況，我們將進行討論。但再次強調，這是一個高度合法的討論，當然，在某些時候需要定義，但就我們而言，這不是我們正在挑起或定義的事情。

I will answer the other questions. On the topic of the results from the US, Germany and Mexico.

我將回答其他問題。關於美國、德國和墨西哥的結果。

Mexico has our best result by far. Their EBITDA is much higher than the EBITDA at our other plants because it's a much more modern site. Its thermal and energy profile is much more efficient. They suffer from lack of feedstock because our feedstock supplier consistently fails to provide us the necessary levels of feedstock. So we had to invest in the terminal to import ethylene from the US. With the end, as I mentioned last week, at the end of the hall and the beginning of investment in the plants, we are now going to start operating at a level -- a capacity level that really owns up to that complex. And you will see that the EBITDA margin is many times higher than what we have in Brazil.

墨西哥取得了我們迄今為止最好的成績。他們的 EBITDA 比我們其他工廠的 EBITDA 高得多，因為這是一個更現代化的工廠。其熱能和能量分佈更有效率。他們遭受原料短缺的困擾，因為我們的原料供應商始終無法提供我們所需數量的原料。因此我們必須投資建造從美國進口乙烯的碼頭。正如我上週提到的那樣，隨著會議的結束和工廠投資的開始，我們現在將開始以真正符合該綜合設施的產能水準進行運作。您會發現，EBITDA 利潤率比巴西高出許多倍。

With regard to Brazil, our polypropylene plant in the US and Germany are not integrated. So that means we buy propylene from suppliers. The price of propylene has fluctuated because we can purchase polymer grade or refinery grade propylene. In the past, there was a spread between these 2 types of propylene. We capitalized on that spread to buy the cheapest one for us and this arbitrage was somewhat reduced. But what we saw in the US in the first semester was atypical. These plants have given us $1 billion per year in cash flow.

就巴西而言，我們在美國和德國的聚丙烯工廠尚未整合。這意味著我們從供應商購買丙烯。由於我們可以購買聚合級或煉油級丙烯，因此丙烯的價格波動。過去，這兩種丙烯之間存在價差。我們利用這個價差來購買對我們來說最便宜的商品，而這種套利交易有所減少。但我們在第一學期在美國看到的情況並不典型。這些工廠每年為我們帶來10億美元的現金流。

So the news from this journalist who is very well informed when it comes to Braskem, I don't know what his prices are. $1 billion from the US plant, that's something we had every year. So we are talking about a whole other level of value.

因此，這位對巴西石化公司非常了解的記者透露的消息，我不知道他的價格是多少。美國工廠的價格是 10 億美元，這是我們每年都能得到的。所以我們談論的是另一個層次的價值。

And in Germany, our 2 plants in Germany suffer from the same problems at all of European petrochemical industry suffered. The cost of energy in Germany tripled when it comes to the end of using Russian gas and moving to US gas. The value tripled per BTU so the cost of energy reflects that. As a result, we are aligning our supply contracts for those plants so that we can gain access to less expensive propylene. But there's a crisis in the petrochemical industry in Europe as a whole and in Germany, in particular. The billiard table has all the billiard balls in motion so we are working to recover everything that we can.

而在德國，我們在德國的兩家工廠也遭遇了歐洲石化產業所遭遇的同樣問題。當德國停止使用俄羅斯天然氣並轉而使用美國天然氣時，其能源成本增加了兩倍。每 BTU 的價值增加了兩倍，因此能源成本也反映了這一點。因此，我們正在調整與這些工廠的供應合同，以便能夠獲得更便宜的丙烯。但整個歐洲，尤其是德國的石化產業正面臨危機。撞球桌上的所有撞球都在移動，因此我們正在努力恢復所有可以恢復的球。

Leonardo Marcondes, Bank of America.

萊昂納多·馬孔德斯，美國銀行。

Hi, hello. Can you hear me? Okay. Good afternoon, everyone, Roberto, Felipe Rosana. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions as well.

嗨，你好。你聽得到我嗎？好的。大家下午好，Roberto、Felipe Rosana。感謝您回答我的問題。我也有兩個問題。

First, I'd like to ask how you see the capacity closure dynamics in the short, medium and long term, let's say, '25 and '26? And within that context, I'd also like to understand if you have any forecast with regard to the time evolution topic that has arisen in China and how that could impact capacity closures in the short term.

首先，我想問一下，您如何看待短期、中期和長期（比如說 25 年和 26 年）的產能關閉動態？在此背景下，我還想了解您是否對中國出現的時間演變問題有任何預測，以及這將如何影響短期產能關閉。

My second question pertains to the value leveraging and whether that could help the petrochemical industry in Brazil. I'd like to get your opinion about the timing for these measures. Do you think that antidumping is something that might be discussed in the next (inaudible) meeting or -- or any other meetings, including urgent ones. With regard to timing, how do you see the timing for these measures? Thank you.

我的第二個問題涉及價值槓桿以及它是否可以幫助巴西的石化產業。我想聽聽您對這些措施的時機的看法。您是否認為反傾銷問題可能會在下次（聽不清楚）會議或任何其他會議（包括緊急會議）上討論。關於時間問題，您認為這些措施的時機如何？謝謝。

Felipe, let me answer the first part of your question, then you and Rosana can answer the others. Unfortunately, this is the last question I will need -- I will be able to field because I sadly have a commitment, I'm already late to.

費利佩，讓我來回答你問題的第一部分，然後你和羅莎娜可以回答其他問題。不幸的是，這是我需要回答的最後一個問題——我之所以能夠回答，是因為很遺憾我已經有約了，我已經遲到了。

Leonardo, something that's very clear for us at Braskem is all of our production plans. We have 40 different plants around the world. All of them must generate positive cash flow. If they fail to generate positive cash flow then those sites will be submitted to some kind of intervention, whether that means replacing feedstocks from naphtha to gas or a naphtha gas blend or some other kind of feedstock, such as non-ethane which is the case with Plant 2 and Rio Grande do Sul, which we plan to run with propane.

萊昂納多，對我們巴西石化公司來說，非常清楚的是我們所有的生產計畫。我們在世界各地有 40 家不同的工廠。它們都必須產生正現金流。如果這些工廠無法產生正現金流，那麼它們將接受某種形式的干預，無論是將原料從石腦油替換為天然氣，還是石腦油-天然氣混合物，或者其他類型的原料，例如非乙烷原料，就像 2 號工廠和南里奧格蘭德州的情況一樣，我們計劃用丙烷運行。

And the plants that fail to adjust to all of these interventions we can make to improve productivity, well, they have no reason to exist. And so we will hibernate or shut down plants that generate negative EBITDA after all of the corrective measures we can undertake. Of course, this needs to be done in an orderly manner.

而那些無法適應我們為提高生產力而採取的所有乾預措施的植物，就沒有存在的意義了。因此，在採取所有糾正措施之後，我們將暫停或關閉產生負 EBITDA 的工廠。當然，這需要有序地進行。

And with regard to the previous question, you don't shut down a plant overnight. You have business commitments you need to uphold, you have employees, you need to refine, you have commitments you have signed to the different contracts, you need to comply with. You don't implement a decision like this overnight. We are constantly analyzing all of our assets, and I assure you that those assets that cannot return to generating positive cash will be shut down in time.

關於上一個問題，你不可能在一夜之間關閉一家工廠。您有需要維護的商業承諾，您有員工，您需要完善，您有簽署的不同合約的承諾，您需要遵守。你不可能在一夜之間就實現這樣的決定。我們正在不斷分析我們的所有資產，我向你們保證，那些無法重新產生正現金的資產將會及時關閉。

Thank you. That's clear. But my question was more on the topic of what you see in the industry because there's low capacity to close, not Braskem, but the industry as a whole. And I'm wondering if you've seen anything different or if you have any different expectations with regard to the more mainstream consulting services that people generally follow. And in that sense, if you have any kind of perspective about the time evolution matter in China, which was really a hot topic over the past couple of weeks.

謝謝。這很清楚。但我的問題更多的是關於您在行業中看到的情況，因為關閉產能低，不是巴西石化公司，而是整個行業。我想知道您是否看到了什麼不同的東西，或者對於人們通常遵循的更主流的諮詢服務，您是否有什麼不同的期望。從這個意義上講，如果你對中國的時間演變問題有任何看法，那麼這確實是過去幾週的熱門話題。

With regard to China, I'm sure you saw that the Chinese government opened the process to define what petrochemical plants will be removed from operations. The Chinese model is about building a electric fence as they call, which determines the need for a given product in the petrochemical industry polyethylene and polypropylene. And then they allow the various factors, whether they are private or public federal municipalities to build their plants. They provide credits and tax subsidies. Those plants are built.

關於中國，我相信你已經看到中國政府已經啟動了確定哪些石化工廠將停止運作的程序。中國模式是建造所謂的“電圍欄”，它決定了石化產業對特定產品聚乙烯和聚丙烯的需求。然後他們允許各種因素，無論是私人還是公共聯邦市政當局來建造他們的工廠。他們提供信貸和稅收補貼。這些工廠已經建成。

The production capacity comes online all at the same time, and then they engage in internal destruction process. It's a destructive type of capitalism that is applied in China. And after the -- after everything is on the table, then the government decides what remains. This was done on the lead up to the Beijing Olympics. This process is occurring more slowly than we imagined.

生產能力同時上線，然後進行內部銷毀過程。這是在中國實行的一種破壞性的資本主義。當所有問題都擺在桌面上之後，政府再決定剩下的事情。這是在北京奧運前夕完成的。這個過程比我們想像的還要慢。

One of the things we expected -- we hoped for better prices this year is we expected this process, especially in Europe would occur more quickly. It did not occur more quickly because the governments at each of those countries or regions try to prevent plants from being shut down. So they start granting subsidies here and there and different easements along that process. And as a result, they changed the different price signals, they change the optimal allocation of capital. And so plants that shouldn't continue to run -- remain online.

我們預期的事情之一是，我們希望今年的價格會更好，我們預計這一進程，特別是在歐洲，會發生得更快。這項進程之所以沒有更快，是因為各國或地區的政府都試圖阻止工廠關閉。因此，他們開始在過程中提供各種補貼和不同的地役權。結果，他們改變了不同的價格訊號，改變了資本的最佳配置。因此，那些不應該繼續運作的工廠仍然繼續運作。

That's -- I'm sorry, I do need to apologize. Again, thank you all for being here, but I leave you in the very capable hands of Felipe and Rosana. Thank you.

那是——對不起，我確實需要道歉。再次感謝大家的光臨，但我將你們交給費利佩和羅莎娜兩位能幹的老師。謝謝。

Roberto, I'm just going to add something. Well, you're right. We have been following this movement. People mentioned capacities that used to be there.

羅伯托，我只想補充一點。嗯，你說得對。我們一直在關注這項運動。人們提到了曾經存在的能力。

On the other hand, there is a willingness of China to meet the demands of its internal requirements so that they are less dependent on the rest of the world. And when we look at the capacities that are going to be included in China, this was also in the presentation we made in relation to the capacities. We see there is a large capacity of PE and PP.

另一方面，中國願意滿足內部需求，以減少對世界其他地區的依賴。當我們考慮將要納入中國產能時，這也包含在我們針對產能所做的介紹中。我們看到PE和PP的產能很大。

Maybe the foundation of PP may be more positive for the years to come, when compared to PE because the self-sufficient movement by China started before. So if we look into the future, we see that time is like to reduce its new capacity of PP for the next years. On the other hand, polyethylene, which stands at 70% of sales efficiency. We understand that this is going to affect the capacity.

也許，與 PE 相比，PP 在未來幾年的基礎可能會更加積極，因為中國的自給自足運動在此之前就開始了。因此，如果我們展望未來，我們會發現未來幾年其 PP 新產能可能會減少。另一方面，聚乙烯的銷售效率達到70%。我們知道這將影響容量。

And you asked about the consulting firms. We have contact with specific consultants from the sector. And what we do is work to have a potential rationalization of the world. It's an exercise when we consider the base case. And we assume which would be the decision of another entity to close down a unit. But we have consider other aspects such as contracts they have with the suppliers. So it's difficult to understand what the other is going to be.

您詢問了諮詢公司的情況。我們與該領域的具體顧問有聯繫。我們所做的就是努力使世界變得潛在合理化。當我們考慮基本情況時，這是一個練習。我們假設這將是另一個實體關閉某個單位的決定。但我們也考慮了其他方面，例如他們與供應商簽訂的合約。因此很難理解另一個會是什麼。

So we have been following up what the rationalizations are going to be, especially major competitors. But as you said, they do not move at the speed as we expected. If we compare, for example, with the financial crisis, for different reasons. But in a way, they also impact the supply and demand rationale. When we look at the environment, when it was better in relation to the impact of the financial crisis, we saw that of the industry closed.

因此，我們一直在關注合理化措施，尤其是針對主要競爭對手的措施。但正如你所說，它們的移動速度並不像我們預期的那樣。例如，如果我們將其與金融危機進行比較，原因就有所不同。但在某種程度上，它們也會影響供需原則。當我們觀察環境時，當環境相對於金融危機的影響有所改善時，我們看到一些產業已經關閉。

So it takes a while. So we have been monitoring what China has been doing. We have the rationalization model that we adopt, and we understand that those who are likely shut down are those whose technology was old, which is not our case. But China has been putting in the market a lot of capacity, as I mentioned.

所以這需要一段時間。因此我們一直在關注中國所做的事情。我們採用了合理化模式，我們知道那些可能被關閉的公司是那些技術過時的公司，而我們的情況並非如此。但正如我所提到的，中國已經向市場投入了大量產能。

The rest of the world that for them, we do not see a lot of changes. Even we do not see that they are -- we do not see the announcements of new capacities. So I believe that when China reaches this self-sufficient level, we are likely to have a better balance of the spreads. But year-over-year, we have been observing some change, some improvement. It's difficult to understand what the rationalization is going to be, and we believe that this is going to take about two or three years.

對於世界其他地區來說，我們並沒有看到太多變化。我們甚至沒有看到他們——我們沒有看到新產能的公告。因此我相信，當中國達到這種自給自足水準時，我們的利差可能會更加平衡。但與去年同期相比，我們觀察到了一些變化和進步。很難理解合理化將會是什麼，我們相信這將需要大約兩到三年的時間。

And there's also the point of antidumping. Yes, antidumping and rig. Let me tell you a story of antidumping process. In fact, first, providing a context. Today, we have a context which is the most competitive feedstock, the global level without any doubt, it's pain in relation to the price of the molecule and also its conversion from ethane to ethylene and also the cash cost based on Europe. So it's competitive and cost is very large, especially when we consider all the agendas that we have in relation to the industry protection. So this is what we observe.

還有反傾銷的問題。是的，反傾銷和反壟斷。我來跟你講一個反傾銷過程的故事。事實上，首先，提供一個背景。今天，我們面臨的環境是最具競爭力的原料，毫無疑問是全球水平，這與分子價格以及從乙烷到乙烯的轉化以及基於歐洲的現金成本有關。因此競爭非常激烈，成本也非常高，特別是當我們考慮到與行業保護相關的所有議程時。這就是我們觀察到的。

See, let's get a reference, an average price. So the international reference of the product that is produced in the United States and sold in the United States, it's from $300 or $500 higher than the price of exports. And this is where we see the damage. We're talking about exports of imports of $900 or $1,000. So from the technical viewpoint, the company really believes that the legal arguments for the antidumping to be approved is underway. And there are two important moments to consider.

看，讓我們得到一個參考，一個平均價格。因此，在美國生產並在美國銷售的產品的國際參考價格比出口價格高出 300 美元或 500 美元。這就是我們看到的損害。我們談論的是 900 美元或 1,000 美元的進口出口。因此從技術角度來看，該公司確實相信反傾銷獲得批准的法律論點正在進行中。有兩個重要的時刻需要考慮。

This investigation process started in November 2024. And following the legal right, it will end up to May next year. And considering all the points that I shared beforehand, as we see the preliminary report, unfortunately, we do not have any expectation of when this is going to become public. So we are going to look for this anticipated approval. Unfortunately, we do not have a specific deadline, but it's important to mention that antidumping is a very technical agenda, and we really believe that this is going to be approved. I don't know if it's going to be anticipated, but it has enough technical arguments.

該調查程序於2024年11月啟動。並且依照法定權利，該期限將於明年5月結束。考慮到我之前分享的所有觀點，正如我們所見，不幸的是，我們並不知道這份報告何時會公開。因此我們將尋求預期的批准。不幸的是，我們沒有具體的最後期限，但值得一提的是，反傾銷是一個非常技術性的議程，我們真的相信這將獲得批准。我不知道它是否會被預料到，但它有足夠的技術論點。

And we're also talking about the production chain as a whole, which does not involve on Braskem, but all the chemical industry, which is an industry that has been being heard turn hit by many actions coming from China, also affecting the profitability of the industry. So the industry as a whole has been working hard to move forward together with ABIQUIM and other players of the Brazilian industry. And unfortunately, there is no deadline for this to be approved, but what we can ensure is that Braskem are the (inaudible) at the industry at large have been focusing so that this can be approved as soon as possible. This is one of the main focus of the company and of the industry as a whole.

我們也討論了整個生產鏈，這不涉及巴西石化公司，而是涉及整個化學工業，據說該行業受到了來自中國的諸多行動的打擊，也影響了該行業的盈利能力。因此，整個產業一直在努力與 ABIQUIM 和巴西產業的其他參與者一起前進。不幸的是，沒有批准的最後期限，但我們可以確保的是，巴西石化公司（聽不清楚）和整個行業一直在關注，以便盡快批准這項計劃。這是該公司以及整個行業關注的重點之一。

Thank you. That's very clear. Thanks for the answers.

謝謝。這非常清楚。謝謝您的回答。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

羅德里戈·阿爾梅達，桑坦德。

Good afternoon, everyone. I have just a few follow-up questions.

大家下午好。我只有幾個後續問題。

First, with regard to green co, I want to ask about sources and uses. In the green co, what do we expect will be involved? We mentioned Thailand and Brazil. This is the large -- there's a large biomedicine project in the US. It's not clear for me whether that would be included in green co. And if there are any other additional investments maybe in Bahia, any green ethylene plans to include that in green co. My aim is to understand essentially the size of the green co so that we could see how much that equity would be valued at that you aim to raise?

首先，關於綠色公司，我想問它的來源和用途。在綠色公司中，我們預期會涉及什麼？我們提到了泰國和巴西。這是一個大型計畫－美國有一個大型生物醫藥計畫。我不清楚這是否包括在綠色公司中。如果在巴伊亞州還有其他額外投資，任何綠色乙烯計畫都可能將其納入綠色公司。我的目的是從本質上了解綠色公司的規模，以便我們能夠知道您計劃籌集的股權價值是多少？

And the second part of my question pertains to the investments you intend to make in Brazil Particularly the logistics investments in Bahia. Is there a reasonable volume, $100 million, $180 million, I think it's something around that level? And if you are making similar investments in Brazil as you made in Mexico, or logistics investments in Brazil, could you give us some context about investments about importing propane for Rio Grande do Sul.

我的問題的第二部分涉及您打算在巴西進行的投資，特別是在巴伊亞州的物流投資。合理的金額是多少？ 1 億美元、1.8 億美元，我認為是在這個水準左右？如果您在巴西進行與墨西哥類似的投資，或者在巴西進行物流投資，您能否向我們介紹一下為南里奧格蘭德州進口丙烷的投資背景？

And just to conclude, this may be difficult to answer now, but it's worth a try. At Braskem Idesa, are there any plans or studies to expand the plant, given that you have now completed the terminal? Since it's isolated, do you have any plans at the moment? Thank you.

總而言之，這個問題現在可能很難回答，但值得一試。鑑於 Braskem Idesa 現已建成終端，是否有任何擴建工廠的計劃或研究？由於它很孤立，您目前有什麼計劃嗎？謝謝。

All right. Thank you, Rodrigo, for your questions. With regard to green co, you have a great map you've outlined. Those are the main assets that are currently presented as potential assets to be part of green co, including the Bahia project, what you mentioned, so yes.

好的。謝謝羅德里戈的提問。關於綠色公司，您已經繪製了一張很棒的地圖。這些是目前被視為綠色公司潛在資產的主要資產，包括您提到的巴伊亞項目，是的。

And remember, again, we are currently in a time of discussions. We don't yet have final decisions. This is going to start being better defined as we start closing the plant -- the window and receive more proposals from interested parties so that we can price them, qualify them and really quantify everything and determine what is included and what is not. This is just a topic to be discussed, the matter of SAF, which used to be considered. Well, it is green, but it's not part of green co at the moment. It's a little different. But it is just -- I'm mentioning it just to mention that there are still discussions to be had. We have not yet hit the hammer on anything yet. Much less put it to the board for approval.

請記住，我們目前正處於討論階段。我們尚未做出最終決定。當我們開始關閉工廠窗口並收到更多來自相關方的提案時，這一點將開始得到更好的定義，以便我們能夠對它們進行定價、鑑定並真正量化一切並確定哪些包括哪些不包括。這只是一個需要討論的話題，SAF的事情，曾經被考慮過。嗯，它是綠色的，但目前它不是綠色公司的一部分。有一點不同。但它只是——我提到它只是為了說明仍有一些討論需要進行。我們尚未對任何事情採取任何行動。更不用說提交董事會批准了。

With regard to logistics, yes, we are going to request some logistics investments in Brazil to implement the transformation plan that Roberto mentioned for reporting ethane and propane here in Brazil. And as we see that develop, at the moment, we don't yet have any definitions. Creating a terminal is a possibility as we did in Mexico, but it is not -- at various, it is not -- it's not a certainty at all at the moment. So we don't yet know whether it would justify creating a logistics company. But this is part of our list of initiatives. You are correct that it is part of our transformation plan and you're correct that we are looking at the best way to make the best possible use of our structures to implement these assets.

關於物流，是的，我們將要求在巴西進行一些物流投資，以實施羅伯托提到的在巴西報告乙烷和丙烷的轉型計劃。正如我們所見，目前我們還沒有任何定義。建立一個航站樓是有可能的，就像我們在墨西哥所做的那樣，但目前還不確定。因此我們還不知道是否有必要創立一家物流公司。但這是我們舉措的一部分。您說得對，這是我們轉型計劃的一部分，您說得對，我們正在尋找最佳方式，盡可能充分利用我們的結構來實現這些資產。

And lastly, today at Braskem Idesa, our installed capacity there is 1,050,000. For the first time, it's going to be able to run when the terminal enters -- it is going to run at full operation for the first time. We are now moving to 1.2 million tons. This is being discussed. At the moment, we are not yet certain about the right timing. but when the plant -- when we see how the plant operates, when it's at full swing and the matter of the global petrochemical industries and spreads and volumes and all of those external questions, external to Braskem and external to the petrochemical industry as well, we need to look at all of that in order to make these decisions. So I would say that your answer is we don't yet have a definitive answer.

最後，目前在 Braskem Idesa，我們的安裝容量為 1,050,000。這是第一次，當終端進入時它將能夠運行——它將首次全面運行。我們現在正朝著 120 萬噸邁進。此事正在討論中。目前，我們還不確定正確的時機。但是，當我們看到工廠如何運作，當它全面運轉，以及全球石化行業的問題、價差和產量以及所有這些外部問題，對巴西石化公司和石化行業外部也是如此，我們需要考慮所有這些才能做出這些決定。所以我想說你的答案是我們還沒有明確的答案。

If I could add something related to the transformation point, there are some considerations I would like to make. Bahia is already flexible. It already has this flexibility year is the investment was in the order of $100 million. So we can have this option of purchasing ethane, and we have been exercising this possibility and a little bit less in the past because the price of oil dropped and therefore naphtha price. So we already have this flexibilization in place. So it stands for about 15% or 20% of what we process in terms of paying. So we can create value, we can attract value of something that we have implemented in 2017, and we are using this flexibility.

如果我可以添加一些與轉換點相關的內容，那麼我想做一些考慮。巴伊亞州已經很靈活了。它已經具備了這種靈活性，今年的投資金額約為 1 億美元。因此，我們可以選擇購買乙烷，而且我們一直在嘗試這種可能性，但由於油價下跌以及石腦油價格下跌，過去的嘗試有所減少。所以我們已經實施了這種靈活性。因此，它約占我們支付處理的 15% 或 20%。因此，我們可以創造價值，我們可以吸引我們在 2017 年實施的某些事物的價值，並且我們正在利用這種靈活性。

In relation to the South, even though the plants we have in the Southern regions are very -- older, but we understand that they can run propane or -- so we understand that investment is going to be lower because different from the $100 million that we invested in the past. We understand that Bahia can run propane so the investment would be lower. So future -- all the stars are still underway. But if we wanted to convert into ethane, we would not need to make the calculations to see how much of the investment would come to. But in fact, we can extract value related to the flexibility, something that was planned beforehand in the past.

就南方而言，儘管我們在南部地區的工廠非常老舊，但我們知道它們可以使用丙烷或——所以我們知道投資會更低，因為與我們過去投資的 1 億美元不同。我們了解到巴伊亞可以使用丙烷，因此投資會較低。所以未來——所有的星星都還在路上。但如果我們想轉化為乙烷，我們就不需要進行計算來了解投資額度。但事實上，我們可以提取與靈活性相關的價值，這是過去預先計劃好的。

And as to the plant expansion, what's important for us to look at. We have never tested the plant 100%. But it's important to understand that we can optimize the plan so that it can run above 1,050,000 tons without any investments, any additional investment. So this is going to be our total focus so the plant can produce how much. So the import terminal already considers capacity of imports of 80,000 barrels per day, which is much higher than the capacity that we need.

至於工廠擴建，我們需要關注的是哪些重要的事情。我們從未對該工廠進行過 100% 的測試。但重要的是要明白，我們可以優化計劃，使其能夠在不進行任何投資或任何額外投資的情況下運行超過 1,050,000 噸。因此，這將是我們關注的重點，以便工廠能夠生產多少。因此，進口碼頭已經考慮了每天 80,000 桶的進口能力，這遠高於我們所需的能力。

So any expansion would be something to be discussed in the future, that would also include the need for higher capital. As we mentioned in the call, we talked about Mexico and the stability when we work with Mexican products. So this is our total focus, how we can operate the plan without additional CapEx and improve effectiveness.

因此，任何擴張都是未來需要討論的事情，其中也包括對更高資本的需求。正如我們在電話中提到的，我們談到了墨西哥以及與墨西哥產品合作時的穩定性。因此，這是我們關注的重點，即如何在沒有額外資本支出的情況下實施計劃並提高效率。

Excellent. Thank you, Rosanna and Felipe.

出色的。謝謝你，羅莎娜和費利佩。

Luiz Carvalho, BTG.

路易斯·卡瓦略，BTG。

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Given current time, I will ask just one question.

大家好。感謝您回答我的問題。考慮到目前的時間，我只想問一個問題。

Felipe, to recap everything that was asked during this call and all your answers and currently rather more concerned about the timings and motions of everything that has been raised here. Because when we look at the spread dynamic that you yourselves publish or any consultants and the slow times in reducing capacity in other countries, the cash burn and the debt level, and we are discussing the transformation process. I become very concerned because at the end of the day -- two years from now, we may be discussing, I will disagree with what Roberto said, we may be discussing reprofiling the debt two years from now. So I'm wondering, at what point in time do you believe that this button will or may need to be pressed in order for us to make more drastic decisions in order to keep the company sustainable?

費利佩，回顧一下這通電話中提出的所有問題以及您的所有回答，目前我更關心的是這裡提出的所有問題的時間和動議。因為當我們觀察你們自己或任何顧問發布的利差動態以及其他國家產能削減的緩慢時期、現金消耗和債務水準時，我們正在討論轉型過程。我變得非常擔心，因為到最後——兩年後，我們可能會討論，我會不同意羅伯託所說的，我們可能會討論兩年後重新調整債務。所以我想知道，您認為什麼時候需要按下這個按鈕，以便我們做出更激烈的決定，以維持公司的永續發展？

Because if we compare '25 and '26 with the current scenario, the company is going to reach '27 very close to the '28 term with a much worse that leverage level. So at what time do you believe that given the rate for [Zika] and antidumping, do you perhaps consider accelerating the process? A new article was published from another journalist about the same topic about potentially selling the plants in the US. So at what point would that sense of urgency, it raised among the management in order to make more drastic changes about those questions.

因為如果我們將 25 年和 26 年的情況與當前情況進行比較，那麼該公司在 27 年和 28 年的槓桿率將非常接近，而且槓桿率水平會低得多。那麼，考慮到寨卡病毒和反傾銷的稅率，您認為什麼時候才會考慮加快這一進程？另一位記者發表了一篇新文章，討論可能在美國銷售這些植物的相同主題。那麼，管理階層什麼時候才會產生這種迫切感，以便對這些問題做出更徹底的改變呢？

All right, Luiz. In fact, your question involves a number of different variables, many of which we control and many others of which we do not control, such as the exact date when the antidumping will be published or the increase in rate for the size, those have important impacts on the company, and we manage all of that and draft scenarios about when which scenarios may occur. So this is all -- to give you an analogy, it's like playing billiards, but the balls never stop moving. So I don't have a precise tactical answer I can give you right now.

好的，路易斯。事實上，您的問題涉及許多不同的變量，其中許多是我們控制的，但還有很多是我們無法控制的，例如反傾銷公佈的具體日期或稅率的增加，這些都對公司有重要的影響，我們會管理所有這些變量，並製定何時可能發生這些情況的方案。就是這樣——打個比方，這就像打台球，但球永遠不會停止移動。所以我現在無法給你一個精確的戰術答案。

But we know that I can tell you, this is something we do -- we consider many different scenarios internally, so that -- if one of those more severe liquidity scenarios comes up on the horizon, we will be able to make a decision ahead of time. As Roberto mentioned, this is not our current scenario. This is not what we predict will occur, but it may occur. Unexpected tariffs in countries invading other countries and other events that fall completely outside of our control so we need to be prepared for these scenarios. Many times, they do have an impact on the company.

但我們知道我可以告訴你，這是我們所做的事情——我們在內部考慮了許多不同的情況，這樣——如果出現更嚴重的流動性情況之一，我們將能夠提前做出決定。正如羅伯託所提到的，這不是我們目前的情況。這不是我們預測會發生的事，但有可能發生。一些國家對其他國家徵收意外關稅以及其他完全超出我們控制範圍的事件，因此我們需要為這些情況做好準備。很多時候，它們確實會對公司產生影響。

What I can tell you is that we are very alert to this agenda. This is not a secondary topic in our priorities. On the contrary, both among the management and among the Board we discuss possible strategies and possible measures to be implemented in order to address any potential situations that may arise, many of which we've discussed during this call, in order to effectively implement those strategies. And I just saw what you mentioned here on global reporter who has just published about this.

我可以告訴你的是，我們對這個議程非常警惕。這不是我們優先考慮的次要主題。相反，管理階層和董事會都在討論可能實施的策略和措施，以應對可能出現的任何潛在情況，其中許多情況我們在這次電話會議上已經討論過，以便有效地實施這些策略。我剛剛在《全球記者》上看到了您提到的有關此事的文章。

Again, this corroborates what we said earlier, namely and what I affirm to you right now. We are, in fact, looking at the agenda, making the necessary measures, but it's important to always take a step back, look at the macro concept. We have a compass, which is our transformation plan. I, again, say this was approved by the Board, the administrative council by everyone in attendance. It was tested by numerous stakeholders, many of whom are our bank financers such as you and other consultancies and other bondholders and stakeholders, and they have all confirmed. You have all confirmed that this is the route for us to follow. There's nothing to add or remove from the plan we are pursuing today, which is liquidity measures and economic valuation measures in the very, very short, medium and long terms.

這再次證實了我們之前所說的，也就是我現在向你們確認的。事實上，我們正在研究議程，制定必要的措施，但重要的是始終退一步來看看宏觀概念。我們有一個指南針，這就是我們的轉型計劃。我再次聲明，這已得到董事會、行政委員會和所有出席者的批准。它經過了眾多利害關係人的測試，其中許多是我們的銀行融資者，例如您和其他顧問公司以及其他債券持有人和利害關係人，他們都已確認。大家已經確認這是我們要走的路線。我們今天推行的計畫沒有什麼需要增加或刪除的，即短期、中期和長期的流動性措施和經濟估值措施。

So we are significantly focused on the agenda. And every time there is a potential for liquidity within this period, as you mentioned, '26 to '28, which is when we start seeing substantial results. Because the results are occurring at this exact moment, results of the transformation agenda, reassigning some less efficient plants, changing our feedstocks, and this puts an end to the cash burn, which we had in the past to start being cash positive. This is occurring at this exact moment. We have these medium- to long-term measures as well starting to generate results. And while that occurs, we implement other measures as well as potential total and partial monetizations.

因此，我們非常關注議程。正如您所說，2026 年至 2028 年期間，每次都存在流動性的潛力，那時我們開始看到實質的成果。因為結果就在此時發生，轉型議程的結果，重新分配一些效率較低的工廠，改變我們的原料，這結束了我們過去的現金消耗，開始實現現金盈餘。這件事就發生在此時此刻。我們這些中長期的措施也開始產生成效。當這種情況發生時，我們會實施其他措施以及潛在的全部或部分貨幣化。

But it's important to make something clear and to strongly establish Luiz, that our plan remains. Nothing has changed. And increasingly, what we see is the sense of urgency that it must be implemented without deviating from the three pillars, which are resiliency, the equality of the petrochemical industry switch to gas fly up the green, and we are not deviating a single inch within that strategy.

但重要的是要明確一點，並向路易斯強調，我們的計劃仍然存在。一切都沒有改變。我們越來越感覺到一種緊迫感，必須在不偏離三大支柱的情況下實施這一戰略，這三大支柱是彈性、石化行業向天然氣轉換的平等性以及綠色發展，我們不會偏離這一戰略一寸。

Using that sense of urgency so that we never need to come to that scenario that you mentioned now. And we will only discover what happens in the future if things occur or don't occur at the speed and intensity that we are scheduling, but we do expect things to occur at the speed and intensity that we forecast. But you're right, we may potentially need to accelerate some additional measures within the transformation plan in order to prevent deviations from it so that we can prevent any of those events that you predicted.

利用這種緊迫感，這樣我們就永遠不會遇到您現在提到的那種情況。我們只有發現事情按照我們計劃的速度和強度發生或不發生時未來會發生什麼，但我們確實預期事情會按照我們預測的速度和強度發生。但您說得對，我們可能需要加快轉型計劃中的一些額外措施，以防止偏差，這樣我們就可以防止您預測的任何事件發生。

Thank you. That's very clear. It's just that the closer it comes, then the more unfavorable the company becomes should a potential deviation occur. Thank you.

謝謝。這非常清楚。只是越接近目標，一旦出現偏差，對公司就越不利。謝謝。

(inaudible), Safra.

（聽不清楚），薩夫拉。

Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I'll try to be very to the point here because of time.

你好。大家下午好。由於時間關係，我會盡量在這裡講得簡潔扼要。

My question is about the RioPol expansion plans. What is Petrobras involvement in the discussions for those investments? Do you think it's coming up soon. You mentioned that it's a key component of the final decision for providing feedstocks there? And Petrobras has numerous times mentioned, they want to make investments in the old competitive region for petrochemicals. Do you see any interest for Braskem or REIQ to get involved in producing chemicals that are not resins.

我的問題是關於 RioPol 擴建計劃的。巴西石油公司在這些投資談判中扮演什麼角色？您認為它很快就會到來嗎？您提到這是在那裡提供原料的最終決定的關鍵組成部分？巴西石油公司也多次提到，他們希望在舊的石化競爭激烈的地區進行投資。您是否認為巴西石化公司或 REIQ 有興趣參與生產非樹脂化學品？

Thank you very much for the question.

非常感謝您的提問。

In relation to the expansion of RioPol, let me provide you with prospect. Today, RioPol, since it started up in 2016, it uses propane and ethane as feedstock. So the company is always going to try to use ethane more in order to make polyethylene. This would be the best source in addition to being more competitive.

關於 RioPol 的擴建，讓我為您提供一些前景。如今，RioPol 自 2016 年啟動以來，一直使用丙烷和乙烷作為原料。因此，該公司將始終嘗試更多地使用乙烷來生產聚乙烯。除了更具競爭力之外，這將是最好的來源。

And Petrobras in this expansion process of RioPol, it has -- it was to at one at the Board, and this is what we communicated and we made it a point to reinforce today. In relation to the approval of the investment in the investment higher than BRL100 million has to be approved by the Board. So we took information to the Board about the study phase. So we are talking about BRL230 million, which were approved by the Board. We do not have the final approval for the investment.

巴西石油公司在 RioPol 的擴建過程中，董事會已經達成一致，這就是我們今天要傳達的訊息，並且要強調這一點。對於投資金額超過 1 億巴西雷亞爾的投資審批，必須經過董事會的批准。因此，我們向董事會提交了有關研究階段的資訊。所以我們談論的是 2.3 億巴西雷亞爾，這筆錢已經得到了董事會的批准。我們尚未獲得該項投資的最終批准。

We believe that this is a project that's going to create value to the company. It's the only full gas-based plant that we have for the company. And at the right moment, we are going to take it for the approval by the Board and what is the proper moment any petrochemical project. Without any doubt, it starts with a contract of feedstock. Feedstock is essential for any product to continue because this is the main import and the most important input.

我們相信這是一個將為公司創造價值的項目。這是我們公司唯一一座完全以天然氣為基礎的工廠。在適當的時候，我們會將其提交給董事會批准，對於任何石化項目來說，什麼時機都是合適的。毫無疑問，這始於原料合約。原料對於任何產品的持續生產都至關重要，因為這是主要的進口商品和最重要的投入。

Yes, considering the other head of that Petrobras wears, we have been discussing a new contract so that we can use the attain that Petrobras has informed that in it has more availability, with the beginning of Route 3. All those discussions are underway. We are confident in the context of synergy, it makes a lot of sense because ethane has a limitation that it has considering the hit power that it has. It has a lot of synergy for both companies. So this is something that has been going on.

是的，考慮到巴西石油公司的另一個負責人，我們一直在討論一份新合同，以便我們能夠利用巴西石油公司告知的其在 3 號路線開通後擁有的更多可用性。所有這些討論正在進行中。我們對綜效充滿信心，這是很有意義的，因為乙烷的打擊力有一定的限制。這對兩家公司來說具有很大的綜效。所以這是一直在發生的事情。

And we are going to make it public in due time and the current agreement that we have is with Petrobras. And this is a very important year because we are not only going to discuss a new contract, which is going to be so important for the implementation of the transformation strategy. but also to the renewal of the agreements that we have executed. So these are the two roles that Petrobras has one at the Board with a decision, and the other is related to the feedstock so that the project can become feasible.

我們將在適當的時候公佈這項消息，我們目前的協議是與巴西石油公司達成的。今年是非常重要的一年，因為我們不僅要討論一份新合同，這對於實施轉型策略非常重要，而且對於續簽我們已經執行的協議也非常重要。因此，巴西石油公司有兩個職位，一個是董事會的決策職位，另一個是與原料相關的職位，以便使專案變得可行。

And the second point, which is very important. Today, of course, we are still making the detailed engineering and coming to the final CapEx. There's an estimate of about $700 million, which is an initial estimate. Of course, it's very important to mention that when I mentioned about the rate investments and Presiq, the industrial -- Brazilian industry wants to build the industry of the future using the green ethanol, et cetera. So the approval of project not only addresses Presiq in relation to feedstock and when we talk about competitiveness, but we also have to touch upon investment.

第二點非常重要。當然，今天我們仍在進行詳細的工程設計並確定最終的資本支出。估計約為 7 億美元，這是初步估計。當然，當我提到利率投資和 Presiq 時，非常有必要提一下，巴西工業希望利用綠色乙醇等來打造未來的工業。因此，專案的批准不僅涉及 Presiq 的原料和競爭力問題，還必須涉及投資問題。

So what have been -- we have been searching. We and other sectors as well, we are seeking for the approval of Presiq, so we support the full approval of Presiq considering the competitiveness at present and also for the future. So we are going to use all the resources of Presiq investments in order to implement rate for the implementation of the expansion of polymer, the BRL230 million that have already been approved by the Board are being used together with rate investments.

那我們一直在尋找什麼呢？我們和其他行業一樣，都在尋求 Presiq 的批准，因此考慮到目前和未來的競爭力，我們支持 Presiq 的全面批准。因此，我們將利用 Presiq 投資的所有資源來實施聚合物擴建計劃，董事會已批准的 2.3 億巴西雷亞爾將與計劃投資一起使用。

And your last question about comparison. any decision of new investments is related to allocation of capital by the company, and it has to be compliant with the corporate strategy of the company, which is fully clear. It's clear where the company wants to go. So if we have this compliance, if we have this adherence, the company will evaluate at all times, and we understand what's the better allocation of the capital in terms of ROI. So this is the corporate decision we have to make should we have any chemical-related projects.

關於比較的最後一個問題，任何新投資的決定都與公司的資本配置有關，並且必須符合公司的企業策略，這是非常明確的。該公司的發展方向十分明確。因此，如果我們遵守了這項規定，如果我們堅持這項規定，公司就會隨時進行評估，我們就會了解在投資報酬率方面如何更好地配置資本。因此，如果我們有任何與化學相關的項目，這就是我們必須做出的公司決策。

At (inaudible), we say that it's a petrochemical company, but it's a chemical and petrochemical company. If we talk about revenues, 20% of the revenue comes from the chemical products that we produce in Brazil. So this is where we would look at. So return of the capital employed and compliance with the strategy, which is so clear that we made clear in the beginning of the year.

在（聽不清楚）中，我們說這是一家石化公司，但它是一家化學和石化公司。如果我們談論收入，20％的收入來自我們在巴西生產的化學產品。這就是我們要關注的地方。因此，所用資本的回報和策略的遵守情況非常明確，我們在年初就明確表示了這一點。

Thank you. That was very clear. Thank you, Rosana.

謝謝。這非常清楚。謝謝你，羅莎娜。

Regis Cardoso, XP.

雷吉斯·卡多佐，XP。

Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for the very detailed discussion.

你好。大家下午好。感謝您非常詳細的討論。

I want to ask about the results of the SkE in particular. And with regard to the inventory turnover, would that effect be reverted in Q3 due to the naphtha use? And with working cash, would you expect a greater use due to the drop in price with regard to the composition of inventory. My question is mostly about whether Q3 and inventory and working cash is going to cause any changes? That's one question.

我想特別詢問一下 SkE 的結果。至於庫存週轉率，由於石腦油的使用，這種影響是否會在第三季逆轉？並且，對於營運現金，您是否期望由於庫存組成方面的價格下降而有更大的使用量。我的問題主要是關於第三季庫存和營運現金是否會引起任何變化？這是一個問題。

The second is, why is the utilization rate for Green TE lower? I understand that we discussed prioritization of green co, in particular. So I believe that, that part of the assets would have higher utilization.

第二，為什麼綠色TE的利用率較低？我知道我們特別討論了綠色公司的優先順序。所以我相信，那部分資產的使用率會更高。

And if you allow me a quick third question for eliminating EBITDA in the consolidated, we had a very negative number in the quarter. Is there something that is important for us to understand there for the next quarter? Thank you.

如果您允許我快速問第三個問題，關於消除合併中的 EBITDA，我們本季的數字非常負。對我們來說，下個季度有什麼重要的事情需要了解嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Regis. Thank you. Good afternoon.

你好，雷吉斯。謝謝。午安.

With regard to inventory turnover, you may have seen that in Q1, the company's -- the company had cash consumption because of scheduled shutdowns due to our strategy and price provisions. We had built up inventory. So that inventory improved with the reduction in Q2, and that's the impact we see specifically in Q2 2025 not as a strategy for Q3, but really as a result of Q1. And now for Q3, it's going to be more in line with normal operating numbers for the company.

關於庫存週轉率，您可能已經看到，在第一季度，由於我們的策略和價格規定導致公司計劃停工，因此公司出現了現金消耗。我們已經建立了庫存。因此，庫存隨著第二季度的減少而有所改善，這是我們在 2025 年第二季度看到的具體影響，這不是第三季度的策略，而是第一季的結果。現在對於第三季來說，它將更加符合該公司的正常營運數據。

With regard to utilization rates for green products, you may have seen in Rosana's presentation, in the beginning of the call, there was a composition of inventory in Rio Grande do Sul in Q1. As a result, utilization rate in the South was 82% -- 87%. As a result, inventory was produced and sold utilization rate dropped to 71%. And you'll see that sales volumes of PE in Q1 jumped from 38,000 to 48,000 tons in Q2, thereby consuming that inventory and as a result, reducing the utilization rate.

關於綠色產品的使用率，您可能已經在羅莎娜的演示中看到，在電話會議開始時，有一份第一季度南里奧格蘭德州的庫存組成情況。因此，南部地區的利用率為82%-87%。結果，庫存生產和銷售利用率下降至71%。您會發現，第二季 PE 的銷售量從第一季的 38,000 噸躍升至 48,000 噸，從而消耗了庫存，並因此降低了利用率。

With regard to the negative impact, Rosana?

關於負面影響，羅莎娜？

The stock effect that you mentioned in relation to the first quarter, to the second quarter and the contribution margin. In the current operational rate, 50% is imported. Braskem make this change of importing more naphtha especially when there was a change of the output of Petrobras refineries, we needed to make that shift.

您提到的與第一季、第二季和貢獻利潤率相關的庫存效應。目前的開工率中，有50%是進口的。巴西石化公司做出了進口更多石腦油的改變，特別是當巴西石油煉油廠的產量改變時，我們需要做出這種轉變。

And when important from the moment we purchased and after the moment it's in the stock as finished product, it has the turnover in four months. So you observed there was a large drop of the oil price, especially between March and April and as a consequence of naphtha price. And the price was much lower, about $550. And naphtha was more expense at the time, so if we consider the bridge between those periods, there's about $130 million, $150 million of contribution margin. This is a difference. And this effect of the inventory effect is there.

重要的是，從我們購買的那一刻起，到產品作為成品入庫的那一刻起，它的周轉期為四個月。所以你觀察到油價大幅下跌，特別是在 3 月和 4 月之間，這是石腦油價格下跌的結果。而且價格要低得多，約為 550 美元。當時石腦油的成本更高，所以如果我們考慮這些時期之間的橋樑，那麼貢獻利潤約為 1.3 億美元至 1.5 億美元。這就是差別。庫存效應確實存在。

It happened especially in Brazil and there was something in this regard that happened in the United States. So if you observe the quarter, the second quarter, if you look at the expectation and if we also consider the opinion of consulting companies, we understand that the oil price is going to be at $70 per barrel. And this crack spread that is likely to be maintained at the regular levels that would come to $550 or $570 for naphtha, and we are not likely to see this positive inventory effect according to your question.

這種事情尤其發生在巴西，美國也發生了一些類似的事情。因此，如果你觀察本季、第二季度，如果你看一下預期，如果我們也考慮顧問公司的意見，我們就會明白油價將達到每桶 70 美元。而這種裂解價差可能會維持在正常水平，石腦油將達到 550 美元或 570 美元，根據您的問題，我們不太可能看到這種積極的庫存效應。

And lastly, in relation to elimination. Without any doubt, we report the uptick from production because they are based and their values in different ways. And -- and this is related to the change that we made in 2015 and 2016. So what is material is important to mention is how we see production, and this is what we do. We have accounting movement of Subsea 47 that happened and this has not affected the client yet.

最後，關於消除。毫無疑問，我們報告產量上升是因為它們的基礎和價值不同。而且──這與我們在 2015 年和 2016 年所做的改變有關。因此，值得一提的是我們如何看待生產，這就是我們所做的。我們有 Subsea 47 的會計變動，但這尚未對客戶造成影響。

And there was another effect that we tried to explain along the release related to the business. We had some changes in the organizational structure of the company. So all the fixed cost of the corporate unit is reported after I report the segment EBITDA. And because of this change in the organizational structure of the company, so that would amount to about $40 million. So this was a different way of making the calculation.

我們在發布與業務相關的內容時也嘗試解釋另一種影響。我們對公司的組織結構做了一些調整。因此，在我報告分部 EBITDA 之後，才會報告公司單位的所有固定成本。由於公司組織結構的變化，這筆金額將達到約 4000 萬美元。這是一種不同的計算方法。

From the historical viewpoint, we can see variation in those values. But if you consider modules, you can see that this is very aligned to what we have seen along the quarters. And this has to do with the new logic of production, and we won. We did that because we do not want to make major adjustments in managerial aspects.

從歷史角度來看，我們可以看到這些價值觀的改變。但是如果你考慮模組，你會發現這與我們在各個季度中看到的情況非常一致。這與新的生產邏輯有關，我們贏了。我們這樣做是因為我們不想在管理方面做出重大的調整。

Thank you, Regis.

謝謝你，雷吉斯。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. Braskem's video conference call is now concluded. Have a great afternoon.

我們的問答環節到此結束。巴西石化公司的視訊電話會議現已結束。祝您下午愉快。