Braskem SA (BAK) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and thank you all for waiting. Welcome to Braskem's first-quarter 2025 results conference call. With us here today, we have Mr. Roberto Ramos, Braskem's CEO; Mr. Felipe Jens, Braskem's CFO; and Ms. Rosana Avolio, Investor Relations, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence Director. We'd like to inform you that this event is being recorded.

早安，謝謝大家的等待。歡迎參加巴西石化公司 2025 年第一季業績電話會議。今天在場的有巴西石化公司執行長羅伯托·拉莫斯先生、巴西石化公司財務長費利佩·延斯先生以及投資者關係、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監羅薩娜·阿沃利奧女士。我們想通知您，該活動正在被記錄。

The presentation will be held in Portuguese with simultaneous translation into English. (Operator Instructions)

演講將以葡萄牙語進行，並同步翻譯成英語。（操作員指示）

Now I will provide the same instructions in English. (Operator Instructions) Before proceeding, we'd like to clarify that any statements that may be made during this conference call regarding Braskem's business prospects, projections, operational and financial goals constitute beliefs and assumptions of the company's management as well as information currently available to Braskem.

現在我將用英語提供相同的說明。（操作員指示）在繼續之前，我們想澄清一下，本次電話會議中關於巴西石化的業務前景、預測、營運和財務目標的任何聲明均構成公司管理層的信念和假設以及巴西石化目前掌握的資訊。

Future considerations are not a guarantee of performance and involve risks, uncertainties and assumptions as they refer to future events and therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors and analysts should understand that general conditions, industry conditions and other operational factors may affect Braskem's future results and may lead to results that differ materially from those expressed in such future conditions.

未來的考慮並不能保證業績，並且涉及風險、不確定性和假設，因為它們涉及未來事件，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者和分析師應該明白，一般條件、產業條件和其他營運因素可能會影響巴西石化公司的未來業績，並可能導致與此類未來條件下所表達的結果有重大差異的結果。

Now I'd like to turn the conference over to Ms. Rosana Avolio, Investor Relations, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence Director.

現在，我想將會議交給投資者關係、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監 Rosana Avolio 女士。

Ms. Avolio, you may begin your presentation.

阿沃利奧女士，您可以開始您的演講了。

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We would like to thank you all for participating in Braskem earnings conference call for the first quarter of 2025.

女士們、先生們，早安。我們感謝大家參加巴西石化公司 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。

According to the agenda on slide number 3, we will begin with the company's main highlights for the period, which can be found on slide number 4. In the first quarter of 2025, the operations of Braskem's petrochemical plants presented a better performance than in the last quarter of 2024.

根據幻燈片 3 上的議程，我們將從公司本期間的主要亮點開始，這些亮點可以在幻燈片 4 上找到。2025年第一季度，巴西石化工廠的營運表現優於2024年最後一季。

All segments showed a higher utilization rate in the period, while the high level of operational safety was maintained, resulting in an average global accident frequency rate of 0.92 events per million hours worked, in line with the best market references.

所有部門在此期間均顯示出更高的利用率，同時保持了高水準的營運安全，導致全球平均事故頻率為每百萬工時0.92起，與最佳市場參考一致。

In parallel, the company presented a consolidated recurring EBITDA of $224 million, 121% higher than compared with the fourth quarter of 2024. In addition, the net profit attributable to shareholders was $113 million. Contributing to this result were the greater spreads of PE and chemicals in the international market and the greater sales of chemicals in the foreign market and of PP in the United States and Europe segment. Regarding that, the company's profile remained quite elongated with an average term of around 9 years with more than 68% of the corporate debt maturing from 2030.

同時，該公司的合併經常性 EBITDA 為 2.24 億美元，比 2024 年第四季高出 121%。此外，歸屬於股東的淨利為1.13億美元。促成這一結果的因素包括國際市場上聚乙烯和化學品的價差擴大、國外市場上化學品的銷售增加以及美國和歐洲地區聚丙烯的銷售增加。就此而言，該公司的債務狀況仍然相當漫長，平均期限約為 9 年，超過 68% 的公司債務將於 2030 年到期。

In addition, Braskem's cash position ended the first quarter of 2025 at $2 billion, sufficient to cover debt maturities over the next 33 months without considering the available international revolving credit line of $1 billion maturing in December 2026.

此外，截至 2025 年第一季度，巴西石化公司的現金狀況為 20 億美元，足以支付未來 33 個月到期的債務，而無需考慮 2026 年 12 月到期的 10 億美元國際循環信貸額度。

Moving on to the next slide. In the next slides, I will present the performance of each of the company segments, starting with Brazil. The petrochemical plants in the Brazil segment showed an increased average utilization rate compared to the fourth quarter of 2024 by 4 percentage points with emphasis on the inventory management carried out at the gas-based plant in Rio de Janeiro in anticipation of the scheduled shutdown of this plant due to take place in the third quarter of 2025.

繼續下一張投影片。在接下來的投影片中，我將介紹公司各部門的表現，從巴西開始。巴西分部的石化工廠平均利用率與 2024 年第四季相比提高了 4 個百分點，重點是裡約熱內盧天然氣工廠的庫存管理，預計該工廠將於 2025 年第三季按計劃關閉。

In terms of sales, the volume sold on the domestic market remained in line with the previous quarter, impacted by the increased PE and PP sales, offset by the decreased PVC sales. Regarding the quarter's results, the segment recurring EBITDA was $199 million, an increase of 101% in the previous quarter.

就銷售而言，國內市場銷售量與上一季持平，這受到 PE 和 PP 銷售增加的影響，但被 PVC 銷售下降所抵消。關於本季的業績，該部門經常性 EBITDA 為 1.99 億美元，較上一季成長 101%。

The result was mainly positively impacted by the segments increased contribution margin, mainly due to the higher spreads of PE and main chemicals on the international market and by reducing fixed costs and other expenses in the period.

此績效主要受到各部門貢獻利潤率提高的正面影響，這主要歸因於國際市場上聚乙烯和主要化學品的價差擴大，以及期內固定成本和其他費用的減少。

Moving on to the next slide. In the first quarter of 2025, green ethylene operations increased when compared to the last quarter of 2024, resulting in an increase of 10 percentage points in the plant's utilization rate.

繼續下一張投影片。2025年第一季度，綠色乙烯營運與2024年第四季相比有所增加，導致工廠利用率提高了10個百分點。

The normalization of operations after the unscheduled shutdown of the Rio Grande do Sul plant in the previous quarter contributed to this result. On the other hand, green polyethylene sales were impacted by the decreased demand due to the Chinese New Year.

上一季南里奧格蘭德州工廠意外關閉後營運恢復正常，促成了這一業績。另一方面，綠色聚乙烯的銷售受到農曆新年需求下降的影響。

In addition to the operational performance, two important milestones were celebrated in the company's Renewables segment. First, the green ethylene capacity in Triunfo was revised to 270,000 tons a year since industrial tests proved the production of 15,000 tons a year, more than the forecast in the expansion project completed in 2023.

除了營運業績外，該公司再生能源部門還慶祝了兩個重要里程碑。首先，特里溫福綠色乙烯產能修正為27萬噸/年，因為工業試驗證明產能為1.5萬噸/年，高於2023年完成的擴建工程的預測。

In addition, we celebrated 15 years of green bio-based portfolio, which includes a variety of solutions produced from a new pool source, sugarcane, which has the property of capturing CO2 from the atmosphere. These solutions play a significant role in facilitating our customers' sustainability journey without the need to invest in new technologies. These achievements reinforce our leadership position in biopolymers in line with our sustainability strategy and goals.

此外，我們慶祝了綠色生物基產品組合推出 15 週年，該產品組合包括由新池源甘蔗生產的各種解決方案，甘蔗具有從大氣中捕獲二氧化碳的特性。這些解決方案在促進我們客戶的永續發展之旅方面發揮了重要作用，而無需投資新技術。這些成就鞏固了我們在生物聚合物領域的領導地位，符合我們的永續發展策略和目標。

Moving on to the next slide. The performance of the United States and Europe segment was better than in the first quarter of 2024. With regard to the utilization rate, an increase of 13 percentage points was a result of the normalization of the plants in Europe after maintenance shutdowns in the previous quarter and the adjustment of production in the United States to meet higher demand.

繼續下一張投影片。美國和歐洲分部的表現優於2024年第一季。利用率方面，成長了13個百分點，這是由於歐洲工廠在上一季維護停工後恢復正常，以及美國調整生產以滿足更高的需求。

In this sense, the volume of PP sold was 11% higher than in the previous quarter. In this scenario, the segment's recurring EBITDA was $20 million, mainly as a result of increased sales volume and the revenue obtained from the sales of logistics wagon in the United States.

從這個意義上講，PP 的銷售量比上一季高出了 11%。在此情境下，該部門的經常性EBITDA為2000萬美元，主要由於銷售量增加以及在美國銷售物流車廂所獲得的收入。

Let's move on to the next slide to discuss the Mexico segment. Regarding its operation, the increased supply of ethane, mainly through the Fast Track solution resulted in an increase in the utilization rate of 2 percentage points in the quarter.

讓我們進入下一張幻燈片來討論墨西哥部分。就其營運而言，主要透過快速通道解決方案增加乙烷供應，導致本季利用率提高了2個百分點。

On the other hand, the inventory management in anticipation of the general maintenance shutdown of the petrochemical complex that will occur in the second quarter of 2025 contributed to the volume of polyethylene sold being 5% lower. Despite the decreased sales volume, the higher spreads of ethane-based polyethylene and lower fixed costs and expenses positively impacted the segment, ending the quarter with a recurring EBITDA of $37 million, 6% higher than the result of the fourth quarter of 2024.

另一方面，由於預計2025年第二季石化綜合設施將進行全面維護停工，庫存管理導致聚乙烯銷售量下降5%。儘管銷量下降，但乙烷基聚乙烯的價差擴大以及固定成本和費用的降低對該部門產生了積極影響，本季末經常性 EBITDA 為 3700 萬美元，比 2024 年第四季高出 6%。

Moving on to the next slide. With great celebration, Braskem Idesa inaugurated the ethane import terminal in Mexico last week through the subsidiary, Terminal Química Puerto Mexico, a joint venture between Braskem Idesa and Advario. The terminal has the capacity to receive and store 54,000 tons and transport 80,000 barrels of ethane per day, guaranteeing the necessary feedstock and Braskem's full operational capacity in the region.

繼續下一張投影片。上週，Braskem Idesa 在盛大的慶祝活動中，透過其子公司 Terminal QuÃmica Puerto Mexico（Braskem Idesa 與 Advario 的合資企業）在墨西哥啟用了乙烷進口終端。該終端每天可接收和儲存 54,000 噸乙烷並運輸 80,000 桶乙烷，保證必要的原料和巴西石化公司在該地區的全部營運能力。

In line with this goal, Braskem through its subsidiary, Braskem Trading and Shipping BT&S, has 2 ethane transportation vessels dedicated to operation in Mexico, contributing to a reduction in logistics costs, lower CO2 emissions, around 40% than the industry average and the full supply of feedstock.

為了實現這一目標，巴西石化公司透過其子公司巴西石化貿易和航運公司 BT&S 在墨西哥擁有 2 艘乙烷運輸船，致力於降低物流成本，降低二氧化碳排放量（比行業平均低 40% 左右），並確保原料的充分供應。

The terminal also supports Braskem Idesa in its long-term growth strategy, ensuring a diversified supply of feedstock to enable future expansions of up to 25% of the current capacity.

該終端還支援 Braskem Idesa 的長期成長策略，確保原料供應多樣化，使未來產能能夠擴大至目前產能的 25%。

Now let's move on to the next slide, please. Moving on to the next chapter, I will discuss the company's consolidated results. Regarding the company's consolidated EBITDA, the quarter's result was 121% higher than that of the fourth quarter of '24 with an improvement in the margin of 4 percentage points.

現在請我們看下一張投影片。進入下一章，我將討論公司的綜合業績。就公司合併 EBITDA 而言，本季業績較 2024 年第四季高出 121%，利潤率提高了 4 個百分點。

As mentioned previously, the higher polyethylene and chemical spreads on the international market as a result of the lower supply of resins in the American market and the volatility in feedstock costs, a reflection of the geopolitical uncertainties had a positive impact on EBITDA. The increased volume of sales in Brazil and exports of the main chemicals in the United States and Europe in PP contributed to the result.

如前所述，由於美國市場樹脂供應減少以及原料成本波動，國際市場上聚乙烯和化學品價差擴大，地緣政治不確定性的體現，對 EBITDA 產生了積極影響。巴西市場銷售量的增加以及聚丙烯主要化學品向美國和歐洲的出口均對此業績做出了貢獻。

In addition, the actions implemented with a focus on the company's financial preservation had a positive impact on the quarter and will be detailed in the last chapter of the presentation.

此外，以公司財務保全為重點實施的行動對本季產生了積極影響，將在簡報的最後一章中詳細介紹。

Moving on to the next slide. At the end of the first quarter of 2025, the company had an operating cash consumption of approximately BRL936 million, explained mainly by the negative variation in working capital due mainly to the management of feedstock and finished products inventories as a result of scheduled shutdowns in the period.

繼續下一張投影片。截至 2025 年第一季末，該公司的經營現金消耗約為 9.36 億巴西雷亞爾，主要原因是由於該期間計劃停工導致原料和成品庫存管理導致營運資金出現負變化。

Recurring cash consumption of BRL2.4 billion was mainly impacted by the half yearly interest payments on the company's debt securities, which are concentrated in the first and third quarters of the year. Considering Alagoas disbursements, which were 65% lower than the previous quarter, the company had a cash consumption of around BRL2.7 billion.

24億巴西雷亞爾的經常性現金消耗主要受到公司債務證券半年利息支付的影響，這些利息支付集中在今年第一季和第三季。考慮到阿拉戈斯州的支出比上一季低 65%，該公司的現金消耗約為 27 億巴西雷亞爾。

Now let's move on to the next slide. Braskem ended the first quarter of the year, maintaining an elongated profile of its Braskem Idesa corporate debt with an average term of around nine years and 68% of the debt concentrated as of 2030.

現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。巴西石化公司 (Braskem) 在今年第一季結束時，其 Braskem Idesa 公司債務保持了較長的期限，平均期限約為 9 年，其中 68% 的債務集中在 2030 年。

The company continually analyses the market in search of the most competitive opportunities for maintaining its debt profile, considering the company's level of liquidity, the available cash of $2 billion is sufficient to cover its obligations for the next 33 months without taking into account the international credit line available in the amount of $1 billion. In conclusion, the corporate leverage stood at 7.92 times at the end of the first quarter of 2025.

該公司不斷分析市場，尋找最具競爭力的機會來維持其債務狀況，考慮到公司的流動性水平，20 億美元的可用現金足以支付其未來 33 個月的債務，而無需考慮 10 億美元的國際信貸額度。綜上所述，2025年第一季末企業槓桿率為7.92倍。

Moving on to slide 15. I will comment on the main updates from Alagoas during the period. By the end of March 2025, all work fronts in Maceió had progressed according to the plan. On the relocation and compensation front, the percentage of execution of the Resident Relocation Program reached 99.9%, considering that the entire risk area defined by the civil defense in 2022 was cleared.

翻到第 15 張投影片。我將對阿拉戈斯州在此期間的主要更新進行評論。截至2025年3月底，馬塞奧所有工作面均已按計畫進展。在安置補償方面，考慮到2022年民防劃定的風險區域全部清理完畢，居民安置計畫執行率已達99.9%。

Regarding the proposals related to the financial compensation and Relocation Support Program, more than 99.9% of the estimated proposals have already been submitted, of which around 99.5% have already been accepted and around 99.2% have already been paid.

對於財務補償和搬遷支援計劃的相關提案，超過 99.9％ 的估算提案已提交，其中約 99.5％ 已經被接受，約 99.2％ 已經支付。

On the salt cavity closure and monitoring front, as announced in 2024, provision has been made for actions, if necessary, to ensure that the 35 cavities reach a maintenance-free state in the long term, suitable for the definite closure of the field. These actions for the definite closure, should they be necessary, are scheduled to begin in 2027 with execution over several years or even decades. Of the 35 cavities, 18 will be filled primarily with solid material, 6 of which have already been completed.

在鹽穴關閉和監測方面，正如 2024 年宣布的那樣，已經制定了必要的措施，以確保 35 個鹽穴長期達到免維護狀態，適合油田的最終關閉。如果有必要的話，這些徹底關閉的行動計劃於 2027 年開始，並持續數年甚至數十年。在 35 個空腔中，18 個將主要用固體材料填充，其中 6 個已經完成。

In addition, 11 cavities that remain in the salt layer and are suitable for pressurization are in the group of recommendations are for the long-term filling with solid material considered by the company following a technical note issued by a specialist consultancy. The other 6 cavities were filled naturally with 5 already confirmed and 1 in the process of being confirmed.

此外，本公司根據專業顧問公司發布的技術說明，考慮對鹽層中剩餘的 11 個適合加壓的空腔進行長期固體材料填充。其餘 6 個蛀牙已自然填充，其中 5 個已確認，1 個正在確認中。

In relation to the financial provision, the total provision for the Alagoas event was around BRL17.6 billion, of which about BRL12.8 billion have already been disbursed and approximately BRL431 million have been recorded in other obligations payable. In addition, around BRL637 million was recorded as a realization of the adjustment to present value. As a result, the total provision balance at the end of the first quarter of 2022 was BRL5.1 billion, 9% lower than the balance at the end of the fourth quarter of 2024.

在財務準備金方面，阿拉戈斯事件的總準備金約為 176 億雷亞爾，其中約 128 億雷亞爾已支付，約 4.31 億雷亞爾已記錄在其他應付債務中。此外，約 6.37 億巴西雷亞爾被記錄為現值調整的實現。因此，2022 年第一季末的撥備總餘額為 51 億巴西雷亞爾，比 2024 年第四季末的餘額下降了 9%。

Following our agenda, let's move on to slide 16. This concludes an overview of the results for the first quarter of 2025, and we will now present the outlook for the next quarter. The company's operating scenario will be mixed in the second quarter with the expectation of greater use of Brazil's petrochemical plants in anticipation of the planned maintenance shutdown in Rio de Janeiro scheduled to begin in the third quarter of the year.

按照我們的議程，我們繼續看第 16 張投影片。這是 2025 年第一季業績的概述，現在我們將介紹下一季的展望。由於預計裡約熱內盧將於今年第三季開始進行計劃中的維護停工，預計巴西石化工廠的使用率將有所提高，因此該公司第二季的經營狀況將好壞參半。

On the other hand, the segment in the United States and Europe is expected to remain stable due to a balance between increased production in the United States and lower production in Europe, impacted by decreased feedstock supplies.

另一方面，由於美國產量增加與歐洲產量下降（受原料供應減少影響）之間的平衡，預計美國和歐洲的產量將保持穩定。

Mexico, for its part, will begin a general maintenance shutdown for its complex scheduled to last 45 days. Lower production in Mexico should affect the sales in the region, while the expectation for the other segments is for increased volumes sold in the period. As for international spreads, the second quarter of the year will continue to be challenging due to prolonged shutdown in international markets and possible impacts of the new tariff scenario.

墨西哥方面將對其核電廠進行為期 45 天的全面維護停工。墨西哥產量下降應該會影響該地區的銷售，而其他地區的預期是同期銷售量增加。至於國際利差，由於國際市場長期停擺以及新關稅情境可能產生的影響，今年第二季仍將面臨挑戰。

The expectation of lower naphtha prices could positively influence the resin spreads in Brazil, leading to an increase in the next quarter. On the other hand, with the current increase in ethane prices, gas-based polyethylene spread could be negatively impacted, while polypropylene market remains challenging, maintaining the levels as seen in the first quarter.

石腦油價格下跌的預期可能會對巴西的樹脂價差產生積極影響，從而導致下一季的價差上漲。另一方面，隨著目前乙烷價格的上漲，氣基聚乙烯價差可能受到負面影響，而聚丙烯市場仍面臨挑戰，維持第一季的水準。

Moving on to the next slide. Given the growing scenario of geopolitical and tariff uncertainties, important competitive advantages will position Braskem to face possible impacts. Firstly, the company's prioritized serving the domestic market where there is still a large portion of demand to be reached.

繼續下一張投影片。鑑於地緣政治和關稅不確定性日益增加，重要的競爭優勢將使巴西石化公司能夠應對可能的影響。首先，該公司優先服務國內市場，因為國內市場還有很大一部分需求有待滿足。

Additionally, the geographic diversification and the scale of its production give Braskem leadership in the regions where it operates. Finally, the company is a pioneer and a leader in the production of biopolymers, solutions that are not affected by the traditional petrochemical scenario, which provides greater resilience during the periods of down cycle.

此外，地理多樣化和生產規模使巴西石化公司在其經營所在地區佔據領先地位。最後，該公司是生物聚合物生產領域的先驅和領導者，其解決方案不受傳統石化情境的影響，在經濟下行時期具有更強的彈性。

The combination of these competitive advantages will be fundamental for Braskem to navigate the uncertainties of the current scenario.

這些競爭優勢的結合對於巴西石化公司應對當前情勢的不確定性至關重要。

Let's move on to the next slide. Next, we'll explore the strategic direction of the company and its main initiatives. Regarding the company's strategic direction, Braskem is focused on 2 main pillars of action: resilience and financial health and transformation.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片。接下來，我們將探討該公司的策略方向及其主要措施。關於公司的策略方向，巴西石化公司專注於兩大行動支柱：韌性和財務健康和轉型。

On the resilience and financial health front, the focus will be on the tactical initiatives that mitigate the impact of the petrochemical downturn with a focus of maximizing cash generation. On the transformation front, we will implement actions to sustain the current business while continuing to focus on building the Braskem of the future.

在韌性和財務健康方面，重點將放在減輕石化行業低迷影響的戰術舉措上，重點是最大限度地創造現金。在轉型方面，我們將採取行動維持現有業務，同時繼續專注於打造未來的巴西石化公司。

To this end, we are reevaluating and prioritizing our assets and investments in order to optimize capital allocation and generate additional cash flow. These actions are essential for creating value to our shareholders for the perpetuity of the business, and they are fundamental to the recovery of the Brazilian chemical and petrochemical industry.

為此，我們正在重新評估和確定我們的資產和投資的優先順序，以優化資本配置並產生額外的現金流。這些措施對於為我們的股東創造價值、確保業務的永久發展至關重要，對於巴西化工和石化產業的復甦也至關重要。

Now let's move on to the next slide. Faced with the prolonged downturn in the petrochemical industry, Braskem has implemented initiatives on the three main fronts, seeking to increase the company's value capture and resilience. In this sense, the continuous reduction of CapEx for operational and strategic investments was carried out, reaching the lowest CapEx in history with the expectation of 2025.

現在讓我們來看下一張投影片。面對石化產業的長期低迷，巴西石化公司在三大主要方面實施舉措，力求提高公司的價值取得和韌性。在此意義上，營運和策略投資的資本支出持續減少，預計到2025年將達到歷史最低水準。

As additional levers, the prioritization of projects and the evaluation of assets continue to be part of the company's goals, which will use the funds approved through the REIQ Investimentos to carry out projects to expand the installed capacity. In parallel, measures to reduce fixed and variable costs are continually being implemented, such as initiatives in the areas of logistics and supplies, including the renegotiation of feedstock contracts.

作為額外的槓桿，專案優先排序和資產評估繼續成為公司目標的一部分，公司將使用透過 REIQ Investimentos 批准的資金來實施擴大裝置容量的專案。同時，降低固定成本和可變成本的措施也在不斷實施，例如物流和供應領域的舉措，包括重新談判原料合約。

In conclusion, Braskem considers it essential to continue supporting institutional initiatives and defending the Brazilian chemical industry. To this end, the company will support initiatives such as maintaining the import tax, expanding the special regime for the chemical industry, among others, which will support Brazil's quest for competitive equality in relation to other economies. Combining these three main fronts, the expected value capture per year will be between $5,000 million and $7,000 million.

總之，巴西石化認為繼續支持機構措施和捍衛巴西化學工業至關重要。為此，該公司將支持維持進口稅、擴大化學工業特殊制度等舉措，以支持巴西尋求與其他經濟體競爭的平等。結合這三個主要方面，預計每年的價值捕獲將在 50 億美元至 70 億美元之間。

Now let's move on to the final slide. In this context and considering the current assets, 3 priorities were defined for Braskem's transformation. Firstly, the company is focused on the continuous optimization of its naphtha-based assets maximizing the utilization rates of the most competitive production lines while evaluating the hibernation of the least competitive production lines at the global level.

現在讓我們來看最後一張投影片。在此背景下，考慮到現有資產，巴西石化轉型確定了三個優先事項。首先，該公司專注於不斷優化其石腦油資產，最大限度地提高最具競爭力的生產線的利用率，同時評估全球範圍內競爭力最弱的生產線的休眠情況。

At the same time, we are seeking to make the expansion of our gas-based assets viable. This includes the REIQ Investimentos to increase the capacity of the Rio de Janeiro petrochemical complex and unlocking the supply of ethane to the complex in Mexico in order to guarantee full coverage of its feedstock needs and enable an increase in the plant's capacity in the future.

同時，我們正在尋求使我們的天然氣資產擴張變得可行。其中包括 REIQ Investimentos，以提高裡約熱內盧石化綜合體的產能，並釋放墨西哥綜合體的乙烷供應，以確保完全滿足其原料需求，並在未來提高工廠的產能。

These two achievements exemplify what the company intends to achieve in its other assets, increasing the flexibility of feedstock and ensuring the operational stability of its plants with the goal of increasing the competitiveness of its assets.

這兩項成就體現了該公司在其他資產方面所取得的成就，即提高原料的靈活性並確保工廠的運作穩定性，從而提高資產的競爭力。

Lastly, in line with our goal of expanding bioproduct production to 1 million tons by 2030, we are implementing initiatives to selectively migrate to green production. Considering the current initiatives, in the last quarter, we had a review of the ethylene capacity. And in the short term, we will have important advances such as the expectation of a final investment decision for Braskem Siam, our future green ethylene plant in Thailand for the second half of 2025 and Sustainea, our JV with Sojitz during 2026. These partnerships are examples of alternative investment models that we will actively seek to implement our priority projects. Combining the efforts of the 3 priorities, the company is seeking to generate a value of $600 million by 2030 in EBITDA growth.

最後，為了實現2030年將生物製品產量擴大到100萬噸的目標，我們正在實施選擇性地轉向綠色生產的措施。考慮到目前的舉措，上個季度我們對乙烯產能進行了審查。短期內，我們將取得重要進展，例如預計將對 Braskem Siam 做出最終投資決定、我們未來在泰國的綠色乙烯工廠將於 2025 年下半年建成，以及我們與雙日集團合資的 Sustainea 將於 2026 年建成。這些合作關係是另類投資模式的例子，我們將積極尋求這些模式來實施我們的優先項目。透過這三個優先事項的努力，該公司力爭在 2030 年實現 6 億美元的 EBITDA 成長。

Finally, we conclude the presentation of Braskem's results for the first quarter of 2025. Thank you very much for your attention, and we'll soon start the Q&A session.

最後，我們總結巴西石化公司 2025 年第一季的業績介紹。非常感謝大家的關注，我們很快就會開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Gabriel Barra, Citi.

花旗銀行的加布里埃爾·巴拉 (Gabriel Barra)。

Good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got 2 of them. Rosana actually talked about this extensively, but I'd like to get more of your opinion about what's going on with regard to the tariff war and the new chapter now over the weekend and this morning, we have a new agreement between China and the US.

大家早安。感謝您回答我的問題。我有 2 個。羅薩娜實際上已經詳細討論了這個問題，但我想更多地了解您對關稅戰的進展以及週末和今天早上的新篇章的看法，中美之間達成了一項新協議。

So looking at the whole puzzle in a macro view, since the company has so many different geographies where it operates and we could say 4 continents, I'd like to -- or 3 continents. I'd like to hear your opinion on these new advances, these new developments.

因此，從宏觀角度來看整個難題，由於該公司在許多不同的地區開展業務，我們可以說是 4 個大洲，我想——或者 3 個大洲。我想聽聽您對這些新進步、新發展的看法。

And now what changes with this weekend's news in terms of spreads, productivity and everything else we can think about in terms of Brazil and the impact of the context of import tariffs. And my other question on the topic of the last slide, where you mentioned $600 million and capturing value through different initiatives, especially with the change to now focusing on gas, I'd like more details about that. What is the total CapEx for that plan? Could you give us a time line as well? How much do you forecast that we will be capturing, especially in terms of KPIs as well?

那麼，本週末的新聞在利差、生產力以及我們能想到的有關巴西的其他一切以及進口關稅的影響方面有什麼變化。我的另一個問題是關於上一張投影片的主題，您提到了 6 億美元並透過不同的舉措獲取價值，特別是現在重點轉向天然氣，我希望了解更多詳細資訊。該計劃的總資本支出是多少？您能給我們一個時間表嗎？您預測我們將獲得多少收益，特別是在 KPI 方面？

That would be very interesting.

那將會非常有趣。

Rosana, do you want to take this one?

羅莎娜，你想拿這個嗎？

Thank you, Roberto. Thank you very much for the question, Gabriel. In relation to the tariff war, yes, you're right. When you say that we had some updates on the weekend. But so far, we imagine that we could see the polypropylene spreads report important increases considering the main feedstock for the production.

謝謝你，羅伯托。非常感謝您的提問，加布里埃爾。關於關稅戰，是的，你是對的。當您說我們在周末有一些更新。但到目前為止，考慮到生產的主要原料，我們想像我們可以看到聚丙烯價差出現重要成長。

25% of propylene production in China comes from feedstock that comes from the United States. And so we would imagine that cash cost would increase and the prices, therefore, of propylene would also increase.

中國丙烯產量的25%來自美國原料。因此，我們可以想像現金成本會增加，丙烯的價格也會上漲。

There's also the ethane part that part of the feedstock comes from the United States. And that could also have some leftover, so as to say that we refer to the ethane in the United States that would favor the company somehow.

還有乙烷部分，該部分原料來自美國。而且可能還會有一些剩餘，也就是說，我們指的是美國的乙烷，這會以某種方式對公司有利。

This is one of the beauties of the diversification that we have at our company, not at the geographical level, but also in relation to product portfolio. There was also a concern of sectors which are connected to the GDP at the global level that would be an impact on the global activities. The GDP of the United States and China combined is nearly 40% of the global GDP.

這是我們公司多元化的優勢之一，不僅在地理層面，而且在產品組合方面。人們也擔心與全球 GDP 相關的產業會對全球活動產生影響。美國和中國的GDP總量佔全球GDP的近40%。

So since we have this retreat, we were talking about tariffs of 45% being reduced to 30% and 10%. So we have this uncertainties in terms of impact and economic growth and considering all the discussions that we have been observing, considering the market and the likelihood of a recession. So this all becomes less uncertain considering the plastic demand, of course, has -- is very linked to the increase in the global GDP.

因此，自從我們進行這次撤退以來，我們一直在討論將 45% 的關稅降低到 30% 和 10%。因此，考慮到我們一直在觀察的所有討論、市場和經濟衰退的可能性，我們在影響和經濟成長方面存在不確定性。因此，考慮到塑膠需求與全球 GDP 的成長密切相關，這一切都變得不那麼不確定了。

So combined with the earnings result and this update, so when we saw all this new, we see all this favorable impact. And in relation to our main differentiator, this is not only a matter of geographic diversification, but especially the leadership that we have.

因此，結合收益結果和此次更新，當我們看到所有這些新情況時，我們就看到了所有這些有利的影響。就我們的主要區別而言，這不僅是地理多樣化的問題，而且特別是我們的領導力。

If you consider that the world nowadays tends to be less globalized and more divided into economic blocks. For sure, if you are a leader where we operate, the main focus of the company in Brazil has always been meeting the domestic market. And this is a strength for the company without any doubt. So we are not only talking about this, but it's a diversification combined with the leadership that we have, especially in the United States, in Mexico and in Brazil and also in the Americas.

如果你認為當今世界全球化程度越來越低，經濟集團分化越來越嚴重。當然，如果您是我們經營所在地的領導者，那麼巴西公司的主要重點一直是滿足國內市場。毫無疑問，這是公司的優勢。因此，我們不僅在談論這一點，而且還在談論多元化以及我們現有的領導地位，特別是在美國、墨西哥、巴西和美洲。

In relation to your second question about the $600 million as a potential value creation, as I presented, my talk. So there is a flexibilization of gas-based activities. We cannot forget that in 2017, we had a project. We have a center of operations in Bahia in the Northeast of Brazil, and we have an option. I can produce return or naphtha.

關於您的第二個問題，關於 6 億美元作為潛在價值創造的問題，正如我在我的演講中所介紹的。因此，以天然氣為基礎的活動變得更加靈活。我們不能忘記，2017年我們有一個專案。我們在巴西東北部的巴伊亞州有一個營運中心，我們有一個選擇。我可以生產回流或石腦油。

So we have this resilience. So we are going after this resilience in order to improve the flexibility in Bahia. In the south of Brazil, we also have opportunities with Argentina, propane and even the expansion of Rio de Janeiro, which is a project that has been in our pipeline for a while with (inaudible) of Petrobras, which will make it become a reality.

所以我們有這種韌性。因此，我們追求這種彈性，以提高巴伊亞州的靈活性。在巴西南部，我們也有機會與阿根廷、丙烷甚至裡約熱內盧的擴張項目合作，這是一個與巴西石油公司（聽不清楚）合作已經籌備了一段時間的項目，這將使它成為現實。

But when you ask about CapEx, when we're talking about -- especially about Brazil, we are going to maximize the use of resources by using the REIQ Investimentos. REIQ Investimentos is a fiscal credit of 1.5% in the company's revenue. And this is conditioned to a project of capital increase. So at the end of the day, in terms of cash flow, this would then have an impact because there we have on the other hand, an increase in revenue. In relation to the growth of the green portfolio, Gabriel, I'm going to mention what was the expansion that we had recently.

但是當您問到資本支出時，當我們談論——特別是關於巴西時，我們將透過使用 REIQ Investimentos 來最大限度地利用資源。REIQ Investimentos 是公司收入 1.5% 的財政信貸。而這有賴於增資項目的實施。因此，從現金流的角度來看，這最終會產生影響，因為另一方面，我們的收入會增加。關於綠色投資組合的成長，加布里埃爾，我想提一下我們最近的擴張情況。

We used to have a capacity so far of 200 tons. We increased to 260 tons and considering all the expertise and the operational efficiency of the operating teams, we'll be able to run that plant at a higher capacity, namely 270 tons.

到目前為止，我們的產能為 200 噸。我們將其增加到 260 噸，考慮到所有專業知識和營運團隊的營運效率，我們將能夠以更高的產能運作該工廠，即 270 噸。

And if we're saying that if I consider all the projects that we have, Thailand or maybe a project that we want to build in the future because we want to have this biochemical industry for the future. And Brazil will have a special way of looking at the company's transformation.

如果我們說，如果我考慮我們所有的項目，泰國或也許是我們未來想要建造的一個項目，因為我們希望未來擁有這個生物化學產業。巴西將以特殊的方式看待該公司的轉型。

So let's think about 1 million tons is our goal. We have about 300,000 and green ethane, about 500 tons. So that would amount to 800,000 tons using the expansion that was related to the project that we had in the south of Brazil.

因此，我們的目標是 100 萬噸。我們有大約30萬和綠色乙烷，大約500噸。因此，如果使用與我們在巴西南部的項目相關的擴建項目，產量將達到 80 萬噸。

Thank you, Gabriel.

謝謝你，加布里埃爾。

Just to add, Gabriel, because what Rosana said is very on point. But just to add, we have mentioned this last time we were here talking about strategic guidance and results for the end of 2024. And with our directives, specifically fly up to green and looking at what we have in Rio Grande do Sul and the expansion of other sites as well for feedstock from sugarcane, both in Brazil and Thailand as well as in the United States.

加布里埃爾，補充一下，因為羅莎娜說的話非常到位。但補充一點，我們上次在這裡討論 2024 年底的策略指導和成果時提到過這一點。根據我們的指令，特別是飛向綠色，並關注我們在南里奧格蘭德州的情況以及在巴西、泰國和美國等地擴建甘蔗原料基地的情況。

All of these points together can create a company, let's call it GreenCo, where we will perform all this expansion of the petrochemical initiatives from Braskem that we will be called Braskem Green in the future. This is being aligned with a number of different investors that are interested in this capacity.

所有這些點加在一起可以創建一家公司，我們稱之為 GreenCo，我們將在那裡執行 Braskem 的所有石化計劃的擴展，將來我們將稱之為 Braskem Green。這與許多對此能力感興趣的不同投資者保持一致。

And the funding for that, to answer your question, in addition to what Rosana just said, would also come from capital inputs, inflows from investors that go not just to the company, but also to the project in Thailand, in the US and in Brazil as well. And also, lastly, other funding sources that would -- that we would use under the same structure as we did when we created the project in Mexico using a non-recourse funding so that we could use it without having too much of an impact on the company's leverage.

回答你的問題，除了羅薩娜剛才所說的之外，資金還將來自資本投入，投資者的資金流入不僅流向公司，還流向泰國、美國和巴西的專案。最後，我們還將使用其他資金來源——與我們在墨西哥創建專案時使用無追索權融資的結構相同，以便我們可以使用它而不會對公司的槓桿率產生太大影響。

Tasso Vasconcellos, UBS.

瑞銀的 Tasso Vasconcellos。

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I have two -- actually, I have one follow-up and another question about CapEx. Roberto, I'd like to touch on the comments about the down and low cycles and initiatives to mitigate those effects and reduce cash burn.

嗨，下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個問題——實際上，我有一個後續問題和另一個關於資本支出的問題。羅伯托，我想談談有關下行和低迷週期的評論，以及減輕這些影響和減少現金消耗的舉措。

We know that some units operate at lower margins and some even potentially in the negative. And we know that Rosana already mentioned this, but I'd like to go back and better understand how you view the potential to close certain capacities and what the order of preference would be in what regions and maybe what products?

我們知道，有些單位的利潤率較低，有些甚至可能為負。我們知道羅薩娜已經提到了這一點，但我想回過頭來更好地了解您如何看待關閉某些產能的可能性，以及在哪些地區和哪些產品的優先順序是怎樣的？

And at the same time, how have your discussions been going with the government to try to claim back some benefits from the past, such as REIQ and also the [Pre-Seq] benefit and maybe delaying or even reducing the export tariffs that was something you achieved a few months ago?

同時，您與政府的討論進展如何，試圖收回過去的一些利益，例如 REIQ 和 [Pre-Seq] 利益，以及可能推遲甚至降低幾個月前實現的出口關稅？

And also my next question to follow up on the CapEx. You mentioned the graph showing the drop in CapEx over the past few years. I'd like to understand if that level of CapEx that you are looking at for '25 is sustainable for '26 and also for 2027 in the event that this down scenario persists over these two years? And what about catch-up -- catching up during these years? Thank you.

我的下一個問題是關於資本支出的。您提到的圖表顯示了過去幾年資本支出的下降。我想知道，如果這種下行趨勢持續兩年，那麼您所預期的 25 年資本支出水準是否能夠持續到 26 年以及 2027 年？那麼這些年來的追趕情況如何呢？謝謝。

All right. Tasso, I'll begin with that one then. The fact that we are running our centers and sites for PE, PP and PVC at reduced capacities allows us to extend and expand and prolong these sites. Usually, they would run for five years at 90% capacity. Today, they're running at 70% capacity.

好的。塔索，那我就從這個開始。事實上，我們正在以降低的產能運行我們的 PE、PP 和 PVC 中心和站點，這使我們能夠擴展和延長這些站點的使用壽命。通常，它們會以 90% 的容量運行五年。如今，他們的產能利用率已達 70%。

This means that we have less wear and tear on the machines. And so we can extend up to 8 years is what we've seen in Brazil. The Mexico plant is coming up to nine years now, running non-stop without any maintenance downtime. So spacing out the downtime allows us to naturally have a lower CapEx. It's a consequence thereof.

這意味著機器的磨損更少。因此，我們可以將期限延長至 8 年，正如我們在巴西所看到的那樣。墨西哥工廠現已運作九年，從未停機維修。因此，延長停機時間自然可以降低我們的資本支出。這是其結果。

So we're being very objective as to how we titrate production. When we look at our capital budget, our projects over the year, we rank these projects by a number of different methods. Firstly, by tier, by VPL. Here at Braskem, we have an indicator that we created. No one's ever written about that.

因此，我們對如何滴定生產非常客觀。當我們審視我們的資本預算和全年的項目時，我們會透過多種不同的方法對這些項目進行排名。首先，按層級，按 VPL。在巴西石化公司，我們有一個自己創造的指標。從來沒有人寫過這方面的內容。

It's VPL over VPI. So present value over the investment value. These investments take a number of years to come to fruition, maybe two or three years. But there's an aspect that's important, which is materiality. So in a situation where we sacrifice cash, such as we are now, it's only natural for you to direct your investments to those that produce not necessarily the highest tier, but rather the greatest contribution in cash generation, instant generation.

這是 VPL 優於 VPI。因此現值超過投資價值。這些投資需要幾年的時間才能有成果，也許兩三年。但有一個方面很重要，那就是物質性。因此，在我們犧牲現金的情況下，例如我們現在的情況，你自然會將你的投資導向那些不一定能產生最高層次，但能產生最大現金貢獻，即時現金產生的項目。

So it's a concept that I refer to as materiality that links projects to the company's EBITDA capacity or to the company's assets. In other words, we really are ceasing to perform -- to engage in some projects that may have good results, but that don't necessarily increase our cash generation and consequently don't necessarily improve the company's situation overall. This -- we need to look at whether this is structural or specific. And at the time, it is currently specific. This will occur until we recover a healthier cash situation.

因此，我所說的重要性概念將專案與公司的 EBITDA 能力或公司資產連結起來。換句話說，我們確實停止了執行——參與一些可能會有良好結果但不一定能增加我們的現金流量並因此不一定會改善公司整體狀況的專案。這——我們需要看看這是結構性的還是具體的。且目前的時間是具體的。這種情況將持續到我們的現金狀況恢復更健康為止。

So I would not perpetuate $400 million of CapEx over the next few coming years because we're certainly going to see different things.

因此，我不會在未來幾年內繼續維持 4 億美元的資本支出，因為我們肯定會看到不同的事情。

I'm not talking about new structural projects, but normal projects. We will continue to invest in the future, and it's going to be at higher levels, at higher volumes. But $400 million is a healthy amount for us to invest and direct to projects that have the greatest capacity of having the biggest impact on our results.

我說的不是新的結構項目，而是正常的項目。我們將繼續對未來進行投資，而且投資水準和規模都將進一步擴大。但 4 億美元對我們來說是一個合理的投資金額，可以用於最有可能對我們的業績產生最大影響的項目。

With regard to the tariffs, our view has always been that these tariff fights, these imbroglios may lead to at some point, the different parties being involved therein, we always knew that some kind of an agreement would be reached. And what we saw this past weekend certainly meets that.

關於關稅，我們一直認為，這些關稅鬥爭、這些糾紛最終可能會導致涉及其中的不同各方達成某種協議。而我們上週末看到的情況確實符合這一點。

The several days that we've seen, the month that we've seen of tariff sites has -- we could say that it's -- it can be described as a sort of give and take. And our knowledge, we know we are confident that neither the US nor China wants to see both economies plummeting.

我們看到的這幾天、這一個月的關稅網站——我們可以說——它可以被描述為一種給予和接受。據我們所知，我們相信美國和中國都不希望看到兩國經濟下滑。

And in Trump 1, what we saw is that the US and China did reach an agreement. So what we are mostly concerned about is China imposing tariffs on ethane coming from the US and vice versa.

而在川普1中，我們看到的是，美國和中國確實達成了協議。因此，我們最擔心的是中國對來自美國的乙烷徵收關稅，反之亦然。

China imports 18 million tons of ethane from the US per year. It is not yet self-sufficient in PE. It also imports PE from the US And if per chance, let's say, it needed to retaliate and impose 125% tariffs on that imported ethane, then PE production in China would be severely harmed.

中國每年從美國進口1800萬噸乙烷。在PE領域它還未能實現自給自足。它也從美國進口聚乙烯，如果碰巧需要報復並對進口乙烷徵收 125% 的關稅，那麼中國的聚乙烯生產將受到嚴重損害。

Now the Chinese government did not impose that 125% tariff. So after a small initial hiccup and a pause to wait and see what happens, we see that now that industry is resuming exuberantly.

現在中國政府並沒有徵收125%的關稅。因此，在經歷了最初的小波折和觀望之後，我們看到該行業正在蓬勃發展。

Now with regard to polypropylene, the Chinese government did not announce that it would not impose the 125% tariffs. Now I imagine that given this weekend's discussions, things are going to progress such that these tariffs will not occur because we know that China imports roughly 100 million tons of PPE per year. And certainly, it has a surplus of PPE, and it exports that to many countries, including here in Brazil.

現在關於聚丙烯，中國政府並沒有宣布不會徵收125%的關稅。現在我想，鑑於本週末的討論，事情將會取得進展，這些關稅將不會發生，因為我們知道中國每年進口約 1 億噸 PPE。當然，它有剩餘的個人防護裝備，並將其出口到許多國家，包括巴西。

And so therefore, after this sensing fight between the countries, we believe that the effect on the competitivity of the different actors is going to exist in the different margins. So someone who's competitive may become less competitive and someone who is not currently competitive may come to be a little bit more competitive.

因此，我們認為，在各國之間爆發這場感測戰之後，不同參與者的競爭力將在不同程度上受到影響。因此，原本具有競爭力的人可能會變得不那麼具有競爭力，而原本不具有競爭力的人可能會變得更具競爭力。

I think the major players who feel the impacts are going to be the European installations, the European sites because they will need to coexist with a structural change and specifically a marked increase in the cost of energy in Europe, and this is structural. It is not specific. I think the biggest losers in all of this after the end of the day, after things have settled down is going to be Europe and not Brazil, not China and not the US I think I was able to answer broadly.

我認為感受到影響的主要參與者將是歐洲的設施、歐洲的站點，因為它們需要與結構性變化共存，特別是歐洲能源成本的顯著增加，這是結構性的。它並不具體。我認為，在一天結束後，在一切平息之後，最大的輸家將是歐洲，而不是巴西，不是中國，也不是美國，我想我可以大致回答。

Just to follow up, what about the closing of capacity in Europe? Would that be a priority for you over the closure in Brazil or the US?

只是想跟進一下，歐洲的產能關閉情況怎麼樣？對您來說，這比關閉巴西或美國工廠更值得優先考慮嗎？

Well, we don't have any plans to increase capacity in Europe, but rather, we will keep our business. They're always striving for the best feedstocks and best materials. I'll answer your other question, too, on that note. Before we think about closing capacity, we will always first try to alter the mix of feedstock. That's structural.

嗯，我們沒有任何增加歐洲產能的計劃，但我們會保持我們的業務。他們始終致力於尋找最好的原料和最好的材料。我也會就此回答您的另一個問題。在考慮關閉產能之前，我們總是會先嘗試改變原料結構。這是結構性的。

This holds for the case of the replacements, the substitutions that we're doing in Brazil that Rosana mentioned, replacing naphtha with ethane. So we're working at 10% levels in Bahia. We're experimenting with up to 30%. In the South, one of our plants can process propane. So we will seek out propane, whether that's from Brazil or imported from Argentina through Lagoa Dos Patos, from the former Cope Sul organization.

這適用於替代品的情況，正如羅薩娜所提到的，我們在巴西所做的替代品，用乙烷代替石腦油。因此我們在巴伊亞州的工作水準為 10%。我們正在嘗試將這一比例提高至 30%。在南方，我們的一家工廠可以處理丙烷。因此，我們將尋找丙烷，無論是來自巴西還是透過 Lagoa Dos Patos 從阿根廷進口，來自前 Cope Sul 組織。

But it's also possible -- we're not ruling out the seeking of feedstock from Bahia. So we may reduce the use of naphtha in Bahia and start consuming ethanol. We can build a dehydration plant in Bahia so that we can work with that feedstock. So closing a plant is always the last case scenario. We're always going to start thinking about different alternative feedstock.

但這也是有可能的——我們並不排除從巴伊亞州尋求原料的可能性。因此，我們可能會減少巴伊亞州的石腦油使用量，並開始使用乙醇。我們可以在巴伊亞州建造一座脫水工廠，以便利用該原料。因此，關閉工廠永遠是最後一種情況。我們總是會開始考慮不同的替代原料。

That's always what we want. We don't want to change our installed capacity. Instead, we will first try to make investments that will allow us to either replace feedstock or have two sources of feedstock.

這始終是我們想要的。我們不想改變我們的裝置容量。相反，我們將首先嘗試進行投資，以便我們能夠取代原料或擁有兩種原料來源。

For instance, today, given the comparative advantage, it's beneficial to use ethane. But in the future, let's say that given the electrification process of the different modes of transportation, we reduce the use of gasoline, this may cause a surplus of gasoline, which is the cousin of naphtha.

例如，今天，考慮到比較優勢，使用乙烷是有利的。但在未來，假設隨著各種交通方式的電氣化進程，我們減少汽油的使用，這可能會導致汽油過剩，而汽油是石腦油的近親。

So that could lead to a drop in naphtha prices. And so that could mean that naphtha will be more competitive in the future than it is today. And if our sites can have a different breadth of options to choose from, then that will allow us to capitalize on these possibilities.

因此這可能會導致石腦油價格下跌。這可能意味著石腦油未來將比現在更具競爭力。如果我們的網站可以提供多種多樣的選擇，那麼我們就能充分利用這些可能性。

So above all, creating flexibility and to switching our feedstocks are certainly our priorities in order to bring more flexibility to our assets. And the last case scenario is always going to be closing down a site that cannot become more competitive through options 1 and 2.

因此，最重要的是，創造靈活性和轉換原料無疑是我們的首要任務，以便為我們的資產帶來更多的靈活性。最後一種情況是關閉無法透過選項 1 和 2 提高競爭力的站點。

Thanks for taking my questions. I have two questions as well. The first, I know we've discussed spreads extensively and competitivity as well. But I'd like to get your take over the past few years about the fact that Braskem, when we look at the cost curve in the industry, Braskem has lost competitivity due to several reasons, including Alagoas, also combined with the downward cycle. This partially complicated the company's efforts maybe also with the introduction of other players in Asia that are gas-based. So could you please add a little bit more context to what you've already said?

感謝您回答我的問題。我也有兩個問題。首先，我知道我們已經廣泛討論了利差和競爭力。但我想聽聽您對過去幾年巴西石化公司的看法。當我們觀察產業成本曲線時，我們會發現，由於阿拉戈斯州的事件以及經濟下行週期等多種原因，巴西石化公司已經失去了競爭力。這在某種程度上使該公司的努力變得複雜，或許也因為亞洲其他以天然氣為基礎的參與者的引入。那麼，您能否為您已經說過的內容添加一些背景資訊？

And with regard to the company's position in the global cost curves. So how do you believe that Braskem today finds itself overall? And the second question is with regard to leverage. I believe the company has done great work over the past few years to extend the debt profile. Braskem does have a leverage problem, but it does not have a liquidity problem.

以及該公司在全球成本曲線中的位置。那麼您認為巴西石化公司目前的整體狀況如何？第二個問題是關於槓桿。我相信該公司過去幾年在改善債務狀況方面做出了巨大努力。巴西石化確實有槓桿問題，但不存在流動性問題。

But we start to see this delay in the cycles reversion as a potential liquidity problem. So there is a short-term cash situation, but there's also a standby issue that could be very relevant for 2027. So I wonder if this standby has some kind of cover, let's say, if it goes past a certain level, that funding will not be available. How do you see that liquidity status for the company?

但我們開始將週期逆轉的延遲視為潛在的流動性問題。因此，存在短期現金狀況，但也存在與 2027 年息息相關的備用問題。所以我想知道這種備用資金是否有某種保障，比如說，如果超過某個水平，資金將無法提供。您如何看待公司的流動性狀況？

Hi, Luiz, this is Felipe. I'll take your second question first with regard to leverage. And I'll leave the competitivity matter to Roberto. He can highlight all of the work that has been done in that regard in positioning the company and really touches on everything we've been saying about the transformation plan that really aims to transform Braskem and make it increasingly more competitive. So with regard to leverage, your assessment is correct, when you say that the company currently has a high level of leverage, largely as a result of things that occurred in the past and debt that we took on in order to meet our different obligations.

你好，路易斯，我是費利佩。我先回答你關於槓桿的第二個問題。我將把競爭力問題留給羅伯托。他可以強調在公司定位方面所做的所有工作，並真正觸及我們所說的有關轉型計劃的所有內容，該計劃的真正目的是改變巴西石化公司並使其越來越具有競爭力。因此，關於槓桿率，您的評估是正確的，您說公司目前的槓桿率很高，這主要是由於過去發生的事情以及我們為了履行不同義務而承擔的債務。

And that's also why when we think about competitivity and the transformation plan, we effectively create value for the company so that Braskem can meet every one of its obligations. I would say that we have shorter-term measures given that all of this CapEx and transformations, they all take some more time to really materialize and for that economic value to be converted into financial value. So we have been working on competitivity, as Roberto explained in a lot of detail in the Brazilian industry.

這就是為什麼當我們考慮競爭力和轉型計畫時，我們會有效地為公司創造價值，以便巴西石化公司能夠履行其每項義務。我想說，我們採取的是短期措施，因為所有這些資本支出和轉型都需要更多時間才能真正實現，並將經濟價值轉化為財務價值。因此，我們一直致力於提高競爭力，正如羅伯託在巴西工業中詳細解釋的那樣。

Every improvement that we perceive and that we receive, so import tariffs, antidumping, REIQ investments. And in the future, I mean, this is an agenda that has started with [Pre-Seq]. But in all terms, this brings a lot of freedom to our company's cash flow. Now this line of credit is available to the company. It can be withdrawn, so to speak.

我們所感知到的、所得到的每一個改進，例如進口關稅、反傾銷、REIQ 投資。未來，我的意思是，這是一個始於[預序列]。但從各方面來說，這都為我們公司的現金流帶來很大的自由。現在該公司可以使用這筆信用額度。可以這麼說，它可以被撤回。

We did make a withdrawal during the pandemic. We know that often there is some kind of condition tied to these incentives. But at different critical moments, we did use these possibilities and fix the problems and life goes on.

在疫情期間我們確實撤軍了。我們知道這些激勵措施通常都伴隨著某種條件。但在不同的關鍵時刻，我們確實利用了這些可能性，解決了問題，生活還在繼續。

So with regard to competitivity and how we intend to leverage the company, well, initially by expanding our EBITDA so that we can effectively reduce leverage and meet our obligations. We persist in our strategy over the past few years.

因此，關於競爭力以及我們打算如何利用公司，首先是透過擴大我們的 EBITDA，以便我們能夠有效地降低槓桿率並履行我們的義務。我們這幾年堅持的戰略。

I'm referring to liability management. And when we see opportunities and when we see that the market offers price and liquidity, then we work on liability management to keep postponing the coming to terms of these different instruments to the longer term, to the medium and long term. And at that point, we also do some kind of nonmaterial collection fundraising so that we can capitalize on these opportunities.

我指的是責任管理。當我們看到機會，當我們看到市場提供價格和流動性時，我們就會致力於負債管理，將這些不同工具的達成推遲到更長期、中長期。此時，我們也會進行某種非物質收集募款，以便能夠利用這些機會。

So using cash to capture value and not necessarily to pay previous debts and thereby expand the company.

因此，使用現金來獲取價值，而不一定是為了償還以前的債務，從而擴大公司規模。

Roberto, do you want to talk about competitivity?

羅伯托，你想談談競爭力嗎？

Thank you, Felipe. Thank you, Luiz, for the question. Talking about competitiveness today and going back to what happened in the past few years. First, I'm going to talk about the ethane global cost curve. We have production of ethane in Brazil and Mexico.

謝謝你，費利佩。謝謝路易斯提出的問題。今天談論競爭力並回顧過去幾年發生的事情。首先，我要談談乙烷全球成本曲線。我們在巴西和墨西哥生產乙烷。

Our position used to be very competitive. And we had this elongated low cycle. And what changed was the oversupply that came especially from the United States. And the America petrochemical basis, as Rosana mentioned, is more competitive when compared to Brazil. Brazil has a potential of increasing the competitiveness considering the availability of ethane in Brazil.

我們的地位曾經非常有競爭力。我們經歷了這個延長的低迷週期。而改變的是供應過剩，尤其是來自美國的供應過剩。正如羅薩娜所說，與巴西相比，美國的石化基礎更具競爭力。考慮到巴西乙烷的供應，巴西有提高競爭力的潛力。

But so far, the base of feedstock in the United States is more competitive.

但到目前為止，美國的原料基地更具競爭力。

And this wave was combined with an oversupply, a wave that came from China, which is related to the -- in terms of direction, it's more focused on meeting the internal demand or even related to the creation of jobs and increased the GDP. It's important to mention that because when I talk about the capacity curve in the United States, I say that, yes, these were pressured. But when I talk about the China capacity because this is what's likely to continue up to 2030, this has not put any pressure on the company's curve.

這波浪潮與來自中國的供應過剩浪潮相結合，就方向而言，它更側重於滿足內部需求，甚至與創造就業機會和增加 GDP 有關。值得一提的是，因為當我談論美國的產能曲線時，我會說，是的，這些都是有壓力的。但當我談到中國的產能時，因為這種情況可能會持續到 2030 年，這並沒有給公司的曲線帶來任何壓力。

And let's look at our asset base. We have four assets, one of them is substantially focused on naphtha in the South, the Rio polymers in Rio de Janeiro, especially propane. And in Sao Paulo, ABC region, we have a combination between naphtha and URL that brings some competitiveness and Bahia that I mentioned previously. It has a flexibilization. We have options to use either ethane or naphtha as part of our production of ethane.

讓我們看看我們的資產基礎。我們擁有四項資產，其中一項主要集中在南部的石腦油、裡約熱內盧的里約聚合物，尤其是丙烷。在聖保羅 ABC 地區，我們將石腦油和 URL 結合起來，帶來了一些競爭力，以及我之前提到的巴伊亞。它具有靈活性。我們可以選擇使用乙烷或石腦油來生產乙烷。

So what am I seeing those details individually because at the end of the day, our decision in sales and production is the combined aspects of the Brazilian reality.

那麼，我單獨看待這些細節是什麼呢？因為歸根結底，我們在銷售和生產方面的決定是綜合考慮巴西現實情況的。

When I look at the cash cost of Brazil in a combined way, of course, we received some pressure because of the United States, but we are in the third or fourth quartile in the consolidated result. We are not very happy with all the results, as Roberto said. This is why it is so important to have an initiatives such as the flexibilization because we are going to have an option.

當我以綜合的方式看待巴西的現金成本時，當然，我們因為美國而受到了一些壓力，但在綜合結果中我們處於第三或第四四分位數。正如羅伯託所說，我們對所有結果都不太滿意。這就是為什麼採取彈性化等措施如此重要，因為我們將擁有一個選擇。

So I'm going to use naphtha when it's more competitive as we had in one-off situations when petrochemical has -- chemical has some more advantages. So we have this positive credit, and we are going to be looking at that.

因此，當石腦油更具競爭力時，我會使用它，就像我們在一次性情況下那樣，當時石化產品具有更多優勢——化學品具有更多優勢。因此，我們有這種積極的信用，我們將會關注這一點。

But we believe that it's going -- naphtha is going to continue to be more competitive in the long run.

但我們相信，從長遠來看，石腦油將繼續更具競爭力。

But regardless of whether we are right or the consultancy company made the right decision, we have this balance in terms of naphtha. Can you hear me?

但無論我們是否正確，或顧問公司是否做出了正確的決定，我們在石腦油方面都保持著這種平衡。你聽得到我嗎？

Okay. So let's go back. As I was saying is the following. regardless of what future will bring in terms of stability or instability and future demand, we have to find a better balance with flexibility, and that is translated into resiliency in our results. And this will bring more resilience when we generate EBITDA for the company.

好的。那我們回去吧。正如我所說的，無論未來會帶來什麼樣的穩定性或不穩定性以及未來的需求，我們都必須找到更好的靈活性平衡，而這將轉化為我們結果的彈性。當我們為公司創造 EBITDA 時，這將帶來更強的彈性。

And from the viewpoint of the necessary resources for this transformation to materialize, especially in Brazil, we are going to have more leverage with the programs that we have to incentivize the chemical and petrochemical industries in Brazil, whose purpose is to reduce this competitive gap compared to other economies, considering that our sector dynamics is global. It's not limited to Brazil. So it's very important to preserve this competitiveness in the Brazilian industry.

從實現這一轉變所需的資源角度來看，特別是在巴西，我們將利用我們的計劃來激勵巴西的化工和石化行業，其目的是減少與其他經濟體相比的競爭差距，因為我們的行業動態是全球性的。這並不僅限於巴西。因此，保持巴西工業的競爭力非常重要。

Excellent. Let me just add my two cents to what Rosana and Felipe said. It's true that our crackers are distributed among the cash cost curve. The Mexico cracker is in the first quartile. It's one of our most modern installations with 100% ethane.

出色的。請容許我針對羅莎娜和費利佩的說法發表一下我的看法。確實，我們的餅乾分佈在現金成本曲線。墨西哥餅乾位於第一個四分位數。這是我們最現代化的裝置之一，100% 採用乙烷。

And now that the terminal was inaugurated last week. We are now going to receive enough ethane to fill our plants at lower cost than we had been paying in our fast track projects to compensate for the fact that PEMEX had never sent us the volume of gas that we had contracted from them.

該航站樓已於上周正式啟用。我們現在將以比我們在快速通道項目中支付的成本更低的成本獲得足夠的乙烷來填充我們的工廠，以彌補 PEMEX 從未向我們發送我們與他們簽訂的合約數量的天然氣的事實。

The Rio project is in the second quartile, but the expansion of the Rio project is going to reduce the cost per produced ton. In other words, by adding two new furnaces, we are going to increase to 700,000 tons a year. We're also going to gain competitivity in the current 560,000 tons a year in the existing furnace.

裡約工程位於第二個四分位數，但裡約工程的擴建將降低每噸生產的成本。換句話說，透過增加兩個新熔爐，我們將把年產量增加到70萬噸。我們也將在現有熔爐的每年 56 萬噸產能中獲得競爭力。

Of course, the more your production, the lower your production cost per ton. Now the crackers that are naphtha based in Rio Grande do Sul and Bahia, for those, we will seek to replace the feedstock as we were discussing. For example, in Rio Grande do Sul, we are negotiating with Petrobras.

當然，產量越多，每噸的生產成本就越低。現在，對於位於南里奧格蘭德州和巴伊亞州的石腦油裂解裝置，我們將尋求替代原料，正如我們所討論的那樣。例如，在南里奧格蘭德州，我們正在與巴西石油公司進行談判。

It starts running the Rio cracker with 100% ethane because today, as you know, it's 50% ethane, 30% propane. When we do that, we not only improve our cost per ton in Rio de Janeiro, but we also make more feedstock available for Rio Grande do Sul, so that we can replace the feedstock there.

它開始使用 100% 乙烷來運行裡約裂解裝置，因為如你所知，今天的裂解裝置中乙烷的含量為 50%，丙烷的含量為 30%。當我們這樣做時，我們不僅改善了裡約熱內盧的每噸成本，而且還為南里奧格蘭德州提供了更多的原料，以便我們能夠取代那裡的原料。

And so we gain -- it's a win-win. We win in Rio de Janeiro and we win in Porto Alegre because we will now be able to process propane and not naphtha there. And in Bahia, we are closer to the fourth quartile far from the curve, we will increase the ethane participation in addition to naphtha, so that we can bring those crackers back to the third quartile. And -- if need be, we'll replace our feedstock. So we will stop cracking naphtha, and we'll start dehydrating ethanol to produce ethane and from there, green polyethylene.

這樣我們就獲得了利益──這是雙贏。我們在裡約熱內盧和阿雷格里港都取得了勝利，因為我們現在能夠在那裡處理丙烷而不是石腦油。在巴伊亞州，我們距離曲線較遠，更接近第四四分位數，除了石腦油之外，我們還將增加乙烷的參與度，以便我們可以將這些裂解裝置帶回第三四分位數。並且——如果需要的話，我們將更換我們的原料。因此，我們將停止裂解石腦油，並開始脫水乙醇以生產乙烷，進而生產綠色聚乙烯。

In other words, all of the plates are spinning, and we are trying to attack the ones that have started slowing down. Now with regard to liability management, as Felipe mentioned, we must remember that Braskem had a fact an extraordinary geological event that caught us right at a downward cycle. And I'm referring to the costs pertaining to stabilizing the salt cavities in Maceio. And when we compare Braskem and our competitors, they didn't have a $3 billion bill to pay, which we're paying. And in terms of our bottom line, this is a liability that does not yet have a corresponding asset.

換句話說，所有的盤子都在旋轉，我們正試圖攻擊那些已經開始減速的盤子。現在關於責任管理，正如費利佩所提到的，我們必須記住，巴西石化公司確實遭遇了一次非同尋常的地質事件，使我們正處於下行週期。我指的是穩定馬塞約鹽洞的費用。當我們將巴西石化公司和我們的競爭對手進行比較時，他們沒有 30 億美元的債務需要償還，而我們需要償還。就我們的底線而言，這是一項尚未有相應資產的負債。

And that's also something we're studying. So Braskem situation was heavily impacted because of the fact that we had a rise in obligations, liabilities to pay. But the bill had only really shown us very recently. Thank you.

這也是我們正在研究的內容。因此，由於我們的債務和負債增加，巴西石化公司的情況受到了嚴重影響。但該法案直到最近才真正向我們展現了這一點。謝謝。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

羅德里戈·阿爾梅達，桑坦德。

Good afternoon. I have a few questions. I'd like to explore the Brazilian situation a little bit and try to understand -- with regard to the import tariffs, how you have seen the impact of those tariffs here in Brazil. We know that imports are still high, but I think that in your release, you were able to claim a little bit of market share. So could you talk a little bit about that, please? And also touch on Mexico as well, how have the recent spread pricing changes impacted the cost of products, especially Brazilian and Mexican PE?

午安.我有幾個問題。我想稍微探討一下巴西的情況，並試著了解──關於進口關稅，您如何看待這些關稅對巴西的影響。我們知道進口量仍然很高，但我認為在你們的發布中，你們能夠佔據一點市場份額。那你能稍微談談這個嗎？另外也談到墨西哥，最近的價差價格變化對產品成本有何影響，尤其是巴西和墨西哥的 PE？

And another question about the import terminal in Mexico. Could you please help us understand the pricing structure for feedstocks, do you bring them from the US?

還有一個問題是關於墨西哥的進口碼頭。您能幫助我們了解原料的定價結構嗎？您是從美國進口的嗎？

Rodrigo? Hello. I don't know if he can hear you.

羅德里戈？你好。我不知道他是否聽得到你說話。

Regis Cardoso, XP Investments.

Regis Cardoso，XP Investments。

I have a quick question and then another one. With regard to the petrochemical cycle and spreads, I'd like to flip the question around and ask the other way around. I imagine that you have lots of thought into this. What would be the level -- the required level of spreads for different grades, let's say, different financial comfort levels, let's say -- are there any targets for net debt, EBITDA, what would that spread need to be? Or what level of spreads would we need to have in order to pay all of our debt and have neutral cash after paying Alagoas?

我有一個簡單的問題，然後還有另一個問題。關於石化週期和價差的問題，我想反過來問。我想你一定對此深思熟慮過。不同等級、不同財務舒適度所需的利差等級為何？是否有任何淨債務、EBITDA 目標，該利差需要是多少？或者我們需要什麼水準的利差才能償還所有債務，並且在償還阿拉戈斯債務後還能有中性現金？

And I'll leave the open question for you to answer in the most convenient way after your analysis. But above all, I mean, instead of trying to predict what the petrochemical cycle is going to be, I'd like to know what it needs to be. And the other question, I'd like to understand the dynamics between Presiq and REIQ.

我將把這個懸而未決的問題留給您，以便您在分析後以最方便的方式回答。但最重要的是，我並不是想預測石化循環會是什麼樣子，而是想知道它需要是什麼樣子。另一個問題是，我想了解 Presiq 和 REIQ 之間的動態。

I was reading the official terms, REIQ is part of Presiq, but Presiq add some additional benefits, but there's a limitation a yearly limitation, but I don't fully understand how that is distributed between the different players in the industry. So could you just explain a little bit about the importance of REIQ and Presiq also your forecast for a timeline?

我讀過官方條款，REIQ 是 Presiq 的一部分，但 Presiq 增加了一些額外的好處，但有一個年度限制，但我不完全理解這個限制是如何在行業中的不同參與者之間分配的。那麼，您能否稍微解釋一下 REIQ 和 Presiq 的重要性以及您對時間表的預測呢？

And do we have an expectation forecast for financial impact? And a third question, there was a significant burn of inventory. Was that due to a reversal in Q4? Can we expect some of that to come back in the next quarter?

我們對財務影響有預期預測嗎？第三個問題是庫存大量消耗。這是由於第四季的逆轉嗎？我們能否預期下個季度會出現一些回升？

Rosana, do you want to take that one?

羅莎娜，你想拿那個嗎？

Sure. I'm going to change the order a little bit. First, I'm going to talk about the inventories -- and then we move on to a more conceptual level and talking about the agendas for the protection of the chemical industry in Brazil. In relation to inventory levels, there was a consumption of BRL1 million, finished products, which are the inventory in transit for this quarter, as an example, 50% of the stock comes imported through Braskem trading ship. But let me focus on the finished product.

當然。我將稍微改變一下順序。首先，我將談論清單——然後我們進入更概念化的層面，談論保護巴西化學工業的議程。就庫存水準而言，本季消耗了 100 萬巴西雷亞爾的成品，即在途庫存，其中 50% 的庫存是透過 Braskem 貿易船進口的。但讓我集中討論一下成品。

We increased this inventory level a little bit since we are going to have an important planned stoppage in the petrochemical Rio de Janeiro. And I'm also going to link to what Roberto answered in the previous question, mentioning the importance of this asset to Brazil because it's the most competitive asset for the company.

由於裡約熱內盧石化廠即將進行一次重要的計畫停工，因此我們略微提高了庫存水準。我還將連結到羅伯託在上一個問題中的回答，提到這項資產對巴西的重要性，因為它是該公司最具競爭力的資產。

And by the way, this effect can also be observed in the cash flow in Mexico, which is also a very competitive asset because we are going to have the first planned stoppage for the polymers in -- and also in Mexico. And these were the main effects in relation to the inventory consumption that you asked it. In relation to Presiq and REIQ, at the end of the day, we are participants of this agenda.

順便說一句，這種影響也可以在墨西哥的現金流中觀察到，這也是一項非常有競爭力的資產，因為我們將在墨西哥首次規劃停產聚合物。這些是與您所詢問的庫存消耗相關的主要影響。關於 Presiq 和 REIQ，歸根結底，我們是這項議程的參與者。

It's an agenda that has been led by ABIQUIM, which is the Brazilian Association of Brazilian Chemical Industry. And it's important to understand the context that the chemical industry in Brazil is going through. If we look at the operational tax rate of the industry, it's probably one of the lowest levels in history due to competitive or Brazil cost or maybe competition come from different regions. I may mention the situation of the industry as a whole. So REIQ and Presiq are there to bring this competitiveness of the Brazilian chemical industry.

該議程由巴西化學工業協會 (ABIQUIM) 主導。了解巴西化學工業目前所處的背景非常重要。如果我們看一下該行業的營業稅率，由於競爭或巴西成本或可能來自不同地區的競爭，它可能是歷史上最低的水平之一。我可以提一下整個行業的情況。因此，REIQ 和 Presiq 致力於提升巴西化學工業的競爭力。

Our chemical sector to answer more broadly is totally global, globalized. There is no dynamics for the Brazilian market. There is rather global dynamics that is seen from the point of view of cost. And we see what is the price that is being applicable. So these are fronts that have been led by ABIQUIM for a while in Braskem and the Brazilian chemical industry would account for -- I don't know the exact number, but it accounts for 11% of the industrial share of Brazil.

更廣泛地說，我們的化學工業是完全全球化的。巴西市場沒有活力。從成本角度來看，存在著相當全球的動態。讓我們看看適用的價格是多少。因此，這些是巴西石化公司 ABIQUIM 領導的陣線，巴西化學工業佔——我不知道確切的數字，但它佔巴西工業份額的 11%。

And it's very restructuring. And REIQ and Presiq would meet the need of this gap in competitiveness in Brazil. REIQ is a special regime of the Brazilian industry, chemical industry, is related to the purchase of feedstock, both in Brazil and from abroad. So when we are purchasing -- when products are being purchased, we have a more broader way to look at that. And we have this affected in the Brazil cost when we compare to the other elements.

這是一次非常具有重組性的過程。而REIQ和Presiq將滿足巴西這一競爭力差距的需求。REIQ 是巴西化學工業的特殊制度，涉及在巴西國內和國外購買原料。因此，當我們購買產品時，我們可以用更廣泛的視角來看待這個問題。與其他因素相比，巴西的成本受到了影響。

REIQ was created in 2013. The REIQ at a time when it was created was 1.20 at the time. And this was related to cost in Brazil, and there was a threat from the American producer such as [shale gas,] it would have to look at the regions which are closer such as Brazil and REIQ in 2030 estimated the reduction in time because we would have conditions to make investments in Brazil, and we have feedstock in a competitive manner available in Brazil. So those arguments are even valid today. And a bit more depreciated when I say that the [shale gas] is no longer a threat, but it's a reality.

REIQ 成立於 2013 年。創建時的 REIQ 當時為 1.20。這與巴西的成本有關，而且存在來自美國生產商（如頁岩氣）的威脅，因此必須考慮更近的地區，如巴西，而 REIQ 預計 2030 年產量將減少，因為我們有條件在巴西進行投資，而且我們在巴西擁有具有競爭力的原料。因此這些論點至今仍然有效。當我說[頁岩氣]不再是一個威脅時，我對此有些低估，但它是一個現實。

As Roberto mentioned before, considering the exports from the United States. So REIQ is addressed and PIS/COFINS taxes no longer exist after the tax reform. So what we have is an expansion of this REIQ tax to [8 to 25] when it was first created. And as of 2027, there is the concept of credit -- financial credit since we no longer have PIS/COFINS taxes.

正如羅伯託之前提到的，考慮到美國的出口。因此，在稅制改革之後，REIQ 問題得到解決，PIS/COFINS 稅不再存在。因此，我們將 REIQ 稅的稅率從最初制定時的 [8% 到 25%] 擴大到 [8% 到 25%]。從 2027 年開始，就有了信用的概念——金融信用，因為我們不再有 PIS/COFINS 稅。

It's a way to ensure the competitiveness of the chemical and petrochemical in Brazil that in the past few years for different reasons, maybe the competition from China or other factors to ensure the competitiveness of the Brazilian chemical industry which is a sector which is very important to the structure of Brazil.

這是確保巴西化工和石化行業競爭力的一種方式，過去幾年，由於不同的原因，可能是來自中國的競爭或其他因素，確保了巴西化工行業的競爭力，而該行業對巴西的結構非常重要。

When you talk about the spreads, the cycles, what I can say is the following. Braskem is part of a sector that involves the cycles that has the foundation of global dynamics at play. So dynamics is global and is not only Brazilian, it's totally global. And we define our leverage ratio levels, our indebtedness levels considering what would be the average for the cycle. So this is what I'm going to consider in relation to your question.

當您談論價差和週期時，我可以說的是以下幾點。巴西石化所屬的產業涉及以全球動態為基礎的周期。因此，這種動態是全球性的，而且不僅僅是巴西的，而是完全全球性的。我們根據週期的平均值來定義我們的槓桿率水準和負債水準。這就是針對你的問題我要考慮的事情。

Let's say, net debt of the company, Braskem Idesa. So when I talk about credit, I'm referring to ex-Braskem Idesa, it was 6.6. And if we consider the cycle, the historical cycles, the normal would be $2.5 billion. And assuming that today, as I referenced, we have a net debt EBITDA of 2.5x. If we consider $2.5 billion of EBITDA, which would be the low range in historical levels, it would be 6.2 there are -- so our net debt is nowadays, it's completely aligned with what would be a normalized cycle.

假設該公司的淨債務是 Braskem Idesa。所以，當我談到信貸時，我指的是巴西石化公司（Braskem Idesa）的信貸額度，當時是6.6億美元。如果我們考慮週期，也就是歷史週期，正常的信用額度應該是25億美元。假設今天，如我所提到的，我們的淨債務與EBITDA比為2.5倍。如果考慮到25億美元的EBITDA（這是歷史最低水準），那麼這個比率就是6.2倍－所以我們目前的淨負債水準完全符合正常週期的水準。

So answering your question. When do you believe that these normal levels will be reached. So this is the major question.

所以回答你的問題。您認為何時能夠達到這些正常水平。所以這是主要問題。

So today, when we consider that no rationalization importance of the industry, because this is something we cannot control. Of course, we haven't observed major companies at the global level, announcing hibernations and closures of plants, but considering the increased level of demand with less intensive when we consider the historical levels.

所以今天，當我們考慮沒有合理化這個行業的重要性時，因為這是我們無法控制的。當然，我們還沒有觀察到全球範圍內的大型公司宣布暫停生產和關閉工廠，但考慮到需求水準的增加和歷史水準的降低。

We see that the cycle resumption will take about three and four years. Again, considering -- not considering, any important rationalization way of looking at that. When I look at the regular normal result considering the low levels. I will take as a reference to 2019, which was the first year where we have a low cycle. And the business of green businesses, the business proposal of the green aspect was not very clear.

我們看到週期恢復大約需要三到四年的時間。再一次，考慮－不考慮，任何重要的合理化看待這個問題的方式。當我考慮到低水平時查看常規的正常結果。我將以 2019 年作為參考，這是我們經歷低週期的第一年。而綠色業務方面，業務提案中綠色方面的內容還不是很明確。

So the result was much lower. Today, the contribution is much more important nowadays. And after 2019, we started a new plant in the United States. So this amount that would be considered to be normal would be close to $2 billion. And that would reach a cash breakeven level, which would be something normal for the lower cycle and a lower leverage ratio between 3 times and 3.5 times.

所以結果要低很多。如今，貢獻變得更加重要。2019年後，我們在美國開設了一家新工廠。因此，這個被認為正常的金額應該接近 20 億美元。這將達到現金損益平衡水平，這對於較低的週期和 3 倍至 3.5 倍之間的較低槓桿率來說是正常的。

Rodrigo Almeida, Santander.

羅德里戈·阿爾梅達，桑坦德。

Good afternoon, everyone once again I'll restart because I don't know if I was able to get my question across. My first question is vis-a-vis the import tariffs in Brazil over the past few months, have you seen any impact on market share? I'd like to hear your take on that. And also, I'd like to understand how shipping prices have impacted the status of Mexican products here in Brazil and in Mexico. And my second question is about the import terminal or export terminal in Mexico.

大家下午好，我將再次重新開始，因為我不知道我是否能夠表達我的問題。我的第一個問題是，就過去幾個月巴西的進口關稅而言，您是否看到對市場份額有任何影響？我想聽聽你對此的看法。此外，我想了解運費對墨西哥產品在巴西和墨西哥的市場地位有何影響。我的第二個問題是關於墨西哥的進口碼頭或出口碼頭。

Could you tell us a little bit about how that has impacted your feedstocks? Is there any mid- to long-term forecast contracts and volumes, it would be very good to understand how that project is coming along.

您能否向我們稍微介紹一下這對您的原料有何影響？是否有任何中長期預測合約和數量，了解該專案的進度將會非常好。

I'll begin, Rodrigo. And then Rosana, you can come in talking about the import tariffs. Because overall, yes, we have -- we already do see an impact, but we can give more detail. With regard to Mexico, and our transformation plan, we've been performing as we've also been discussing an internal project to purchase these vessels through a leasing contract to carry out ethane and also in the future naphtha contracts. In Mexico, the first vessel arrived in February of '25, and the second vessel is scheduled to arrive in Q2 of '25.

我先開始，羅德里戈。然後羅莎娜，你可以來談談進口關稅。因為總的來說，是的，我們已經看到了影響，但我們可以提供更多細節。關於墨西哥和我們的轉型計劃，我們一直在執行，我們也一直在討論一個內部項目，透過租賃合約購買這些船隻來執行乙烷以及未來的石腦油合約。在墨西哥，第一艘船於25年2月抵達，第二艘船計劃於25年第二季抵達。

So that answers precisely your question. That's the backdrop to this program. That's called seas of the future. This has been approved by the administration board a little bit more than a year ago, forecasting that these spreads would be increasingly higher as a result of the lower availability of vessels of that category around the world. So we are well positioned there.

這正好回答了你的問題。這就是該計劃的背景。這就是所謂的未來之海。這項計劃在一年多前就已獲得管理委員會的批准，並預測由於全球範圍內該類型船舶的供應量減少，價差將會越來越大。因此我們在這方面處於有利地位。

We have started reaping these rewards by reducing the amount that we pay. Of course, we still pay a little bit because we don't have all of the necessary shipping capacity, but we have improved that -- it is improving and it's going to have a significant impact.

我們已開始透過減少支付金額來獲得這些回報。當然，我們仍然需要支付一點費用，因為我們沒有所有必要的運輸能力，但我們已經改進了這一點——它正在改進，並將產生重大影響。

With regard to your second question and the strategy to purchase ethane from the US, as you know, one of the companies in our group is Braskem Trading and Shipping, DT&S, located in the Netherlands, and they have a trade desk focused specifically on these operations.

關於您的第二個問題以及從美國購買乙烷的策略，如您所知，我們集團旗下的一家公司是位於荷蘭的 Braskem Trading and Shipping（DT＆S），他們有一個專門負責這些業務的貿易部門。

So that includes spot and short-term contracts and also mid and long-term contracts. All of that is held within that cell that houses our knowledge that we call DT&S, they are contracted by Braskem Idesa to manage the purchase of feedstock in the best possible way, in the most optimized way and combining a short, medium and long-term portfolio.

其中包括現貨和短期合約以及中期和長期合約。所有這些都保存在我們稱為 DT&S 的知識單元中，它們與 Braskem Idesa 簽訂了合同，以最佳、最優化的方式管理原料採購，並結合短期、中期和長期投資組合。

Ro, could you tell us a little bit about import tariffs?

Ro，您能否向我們介紹進口關稅？

Yeah. Of course, a reminder in relation to Mexico, the operations have started. It was a very important investment that we ensure operational availability and imports more than we need. So at the end of the transformation, we are going to evaluate a possible expansion at the right moment. On a reminder, we have a planned maintenance shutdown, as I mentioned before, the first one since we started the project.

是的。當然，關於墨西哥，需要提醒的是，行動已經開始。這是一項非常重要的投資，我們確保了營運的可用性並進口了超出我們所需的數量。因此，在轉型結束時，我們將在適當的時機評估可能的擴張。提醒一下，我們有一個計劃的維護停工，正如我之前提到的，這是我們啟動該專案以來的第一次停工。

So about 40 or 45 minutes it's going to stop for a while. We have been building the inventory. But when we talk about running at 100% this would happen after 2026 only. Your question in relation to freight rise. For different reasons, we saw along the time in the past few years, we saw logistics disruption.

因此大約 40 或 45 分鐘後它就會停止一會兒。我們一直在建立庫存。但當我們談論 100% 運行時，這只會在 2026 年之後發生。您提出的問題與運費上漲有關。由於不同的原因，我們在過去幾年中一直看到物流中斷。

Most of them come from the Red Sea conflict that was supporting the freight, Brazil, Asia, more than normal levels. What we have been observing in the past few months, and we also heard some news of possible truce in the region on the part of the United States.

其中大部分來自紅海衝突導致巴西、亞洲的貨運量超過正常水準。過去幾個月我們一直在觀察，我們也聽到一些美國可能在該地區停火的消息。

So we have been observing the normal situation in relation to those spreads. So Rodrigo, that imports parity that we mentioned that had this positive effect because without a doubt, if our client is importing, the freight would be paid, and we have been observing this normal levels being materialized that had brought some positive results last year. In terms of market share, of course, we have been observing this.

因此，我們一直在觀察與這些利差有關的正常情況。因此，羅德里戈，我們提到的進口平價產生了積極的影響，因為毫無疑問，如果我們的客戶進口，運費就會得到支付，而且我們一直觀察到這種正常水平正在實現，這在去年帶來了一些積極的結果。當然，就市場佔有率而言，我們一直在觀察這一點。

And my answer is considering that we were expecting what would be the market share of the company considering our commercial strategy that we have adopted. And as a reminder that our focus is to meet the Brazilian market, the domestic market, when we talk about the Brazilian production, this is the major focus of the company at all times.

我的回答是，考慮到我們採用的商業策略，我們預期公司的市佔率會是多少。需要提醒的是，我們的重點是滿足巴西市場、國內市場，當我們談論巴西生產時，這始終是公司關注的重點。

This is the natural choice for the company. But when I compare the goals that we had, we observed that the market share was a bit higher than we had for the year. It's difficult if the effect was market share because there's uncertainties, there are different demands, many variables, effects, variations.

這對公司來說是自然的選擇。但當我比較我們的目標時，我們發現市佔率比今年略高。如果影響的是市場份額，那就很難說了，因為存在不確定性，有不同的需求，許多變數、影響和變化。

But we can say that we have been very successful, especially because, in fact, we want to be the client's natural choice, and the commercial team has been working very hard on this to meet our Brazilian clients the best possible way.

但我們可以說我們已經非常成功，特別是因為事實上我們希望成為客戶的自然選擇，而商業團隊一直在為此努力工作以盡可能最好的方式滿足我們的巴西客戶。

Let me just butt in for a moment because I want to add something to answer Rodrigo. I'd like to suggest that all of you when you think about our switch to gas and fly up to green strategy. It's a feedstock replacement strategy. We'll replace naphtha with gas initially. And then will replace naphtha with ethanol.

請容許我插嘴一下，因為我想補充一些內容來回答羅德里戈。我想建議大家在考慮轉向天然氣和飛行時採取綠色策略。這是一種原料替代策略。我們首先將用天然氣取代石腦油。然後用乙醇代替石腦油。

And then in the future, we'll also replace gas with ethanol. In other words, Braskem is not interested in expanding its naphtha processing capacity. In theory, if someone were to offer us more naphtha to build another battery of crackers, naphtha-based crackers, we would say thank you, but no thank you.

將來，我們還將用乙醇代替汽油。換句話說，巴西石腦油加工能力的擴大並不感興趣。理論上，如果有人提供我們更多的石腦油來建造另一組裂解裝置（以石腦油為基礎的裂解裝置），我們會說謝謝，但不需要。

Our first primary focus is on increasing our gas processing, whether that's replacing naphtha with gas or creating additional gas capacity. As Rosana mentioned, our Mexico terminal is going to allow us to store 88,000 barrels per day of liquid ethane and our processing capacity for a full plant is 66,000 barrels a day.

我們的首要重點是增加天然氣加工量，無論是用天然氣取代石腦油或創造額外的天然氣產能。正如羅薩娜所提到的，我們的墨西哥終端將允許我們每天儲存 88,000 桶液態乙烷，而我們整個工廠的加工能力為每天 66,000 桶。

So that means we have a surplus of 14,000 barrels a day to store liquid ethane. This would allow us to bring the Mexico plant to over 1 million tons a year, 1.60 million. If we were to cap everything out 100% Certainly, this would lead us to -- we would need to build another polyethylene plant in that hypothesis. And in Rio, we also have a lot of production in storage. So our first focus is on increasing gas, proportionately reducing naphtha.

這意味著我們每天有 14,000 桶剩餘來儲存液態乙烷。這將使墨西哥工廠的年產量達到 100 多萬噸，即 160 萬噸。如果我們把所有東西都封頂到 100% 當然，這將導致我們——在這種假設下，我們需要建造另一個聚乙烯工廠。在裡約，我們也儲存了大量產品。因此，我們的首要重點是增加天然氣，同時也相應減少石腦油。

And in the future, which for me is the future of Braskem is to progressively convert away from ethanol because it's a chemical, no longer petrochemical, but just chemical feedstock that will give way to the industry of the future.

而對我來說，巴西石化的未來就是逐步擺脫乙醇，因為它是一種化學品，不再是石化產品，而只是一種化學原料，將為未來的工業讓路。

Leonardo Marcondes, Bank of America.

萊昂納多·馬孔德斯，美國銀行。

Many of them have been answered already. So I just have a few mostly focusing on the US and Europe. We saw a negative margin, and one of the explanations for that was the drop in polypropylene prices. And in this quarter, the price of propylene rose, and we also saw a relatively low margin compared to other quarters.

其中許多問題已經得到解答。所以我主要關注美國和歐洲。我們看到了負利潤，其中一個原因是聚丙烯價格下跌。本季，丙烯價格上漲，我們的利潤率也相對其他季度較低。

So I'm wondering, could you give us a little bit of context about the effect during the quarter? Because it would be very interesting for us to better understand the effects of the dynamics of polypropylene on the results in this segment.

所以我想知道，您能否向我們介紹本季的影響？因為這對我們來說非常有趣，可以更好地了解聚丙烯的動態對這一領域結果的影響。

Do you want to start, and I'll add on, Rosana?

你想先開始，然後我再補充，羅莎娜？

Thank you, Leo, for the question. You're right. When you say that we came from $10,000 million, and this semester was $20,000 million. We have some nonrecurring effect, but your question in relation to propane will be answered. Looking at the United States, considering the materiality because the production capacity is higher in the United States and the propane dynamics has a positive and negative effect.

謝謝 Leo 提出的問題。你說得對。當你說我們來自 100 億美元，而這個學期是 200 億美元。我們有一些非經常性的影響，但您有關丙烷的問題將得到解答。從美國來看，考慮到重要性，因為美國的生產能力更高，並且丙烷動態具有積極和消極的影響。

This is what I'm going to explain. In the United States, we are the largest producer of polypropylene. And therefore, we are the major purchases of propane. And as a result, we have long-term agreements have do -- many agreements. And we have many agreements whose source of feedstock is different from the refinery, from a petrochemical complex or from a propane dehydrogenator.

這就是我要解釋的內容。在美國，我們是最大的聚丙烯生產商。因此，我們是丙烷的主要採購商。因此，我們達成了許多長期協議。我們有許多協議，其原料來源不同於煉油廠、石化綜合體或丙烷脫氫裝置。

And the flexibility, which is one of the major differentiators that we have, we have virtual integration. It seems we have different sources, we have level of integration. So this is what I refer to as virtual integration. When the propane price increases, which is the main feedstock of polypropylene, I have more flexibility when I purchase feedstock considering all these assets and costs for polymerization and everything else. Why do not -- we do not see this effect so much since the propane increased.

靈活性是我們的主要區別之一，我們擁有虛擬整合。看起來我們有不同的來源，我們有整合程度。這就是我所說的虛擬整合。當丙烷（聚丙烯的主要原料）價格上漲時，考慮到所有這些資產以及聚合成本和其他所有成本，我在購買原料時擁有更大的靈活性。為什麼不呢——自從丙烷增加以來我們就沒看到過這種影響。

Because along with the quarter, we had some plant shutdowns and some unplanned shutdowns from our -- some of our suppliers. So this flexibilization was limited if we consider those planned and unplanned shutdowns that we had along the quarter. So at the end of the day, whenever propane increases, we expect to have -- even more positive result considering the difference that we have in the United States associated with the flexibilization of supply and sources of feedstock as well.

因為隨著本季的進行，我們的一些工廠關閉了，我們的一些供應商也出現了計劃外的關閉。因此，如果我們考慮到本季計劃內和計劃外的停工，這種靈活性是有限的。因此，最終，無論丙烷產量何時增加，我們都期望獲得更積極的結果，因為考慮到美國在供應和原料來源靈活性方面的差異。

I'd just like to add, the sources of propylene are essentially from refineries, from naphtha cracking or from dehydrogenating propane. The major growth of the supply of propylene in the US came from new propane dehydrogenation plant. Actually, the plant that we built in (inaudible) was to consume feedstock coming in from the hydrogenation units. These plants are difficult to run.

我只想補充一點，丙烯的來源主要來自煉油廠、石腦油裂解或丙烷脫氫。美國丙烯供應量的主要成長來自於新的丙烷脫氫工廠。實際上，我們建造的工廠（聽不清楚）是為了消耗加氫裝置的原料。這些工廠很難運作。

There are people who can run them very well, and other people who really have a hard time. So you've got an offer of propylene that is very variable due to the effectiveness of the dehydrogenation plants. When it comes to using the propylene, we use it to create polypropylene. We also use it for the acrylate -- for the whole acrylate chain. And you can also use it to alkylate different products.

有些人可以很好地管理它們，而其他人則真的很難管理它們。因此，由於脫氫裝置的效率，丙烯的供應量變化很大。當談到使用丙烯時，我們用它來製造聚丙烯。我們也將其用於丙烯酸酯—用於整個丙烯酸酯鏈。您也可以使用它來烷基化不同的產品。

So if you reduce the use of gasoline in the US, you're going to have less feedstock, less propylene because you will use that feedstock to produce the gas that is used. As a result, you'll have a drop in the price of propylene in the US and more competitivity in propylene production there. And we have our assets there, and we will always value and prioritize our assets. And so we have a very large propylene plant in the US, and I'm confident that there, we can increase the production of polypropylene.

因此，如果美國減少汽油的使用，那麼原料和丙烯就會減少，因為您需要使用這些原料來生產所需的天然氣。結果，美國丙烯的價格將會下降，美國丙烯生產的競爭力也會增強。我們的資產在那裡，我們將始終重視並優先考慮我們的資產。因此，我們在美國擁有一家非常大的丙烯工廠，我相信我們可以在那裡增加聚丙烯的產量。

Recently, we took upon ourselves the challenge of increasing our production capacity, which may even surpass the installed capacity because there's always a little bit of headroom for any of these plants. So our challenge is going to be on demand. You have sufficient demand for us to increase production, which is always the case in an industry like ours. The more you increase production capacity and production itself, the lower cost we will have because indirect costs are better absorbed and so you become more competitive and more profitable.

最近，我們接受了提高生產能力的挑戰，我們的生產能力甚至可能超過已安裝的產能，因為對於任何工廠來說，總是會有一點餘地。所以我們的挑戰將是按需的。你們有足夠的需求讓我們增加產量，在我們這樣的行業中，情況總是如此。生產能力和產量越高，成本就越低，因為間接成本被更好地吸收，因此競爭力更強，利潤更高。

We end now the Q&A session. Braskem's video conference has come to an end. We would like to thank everyone, and have a good afternoon, everyone.

我們現在結束問答環節。巴西石化公司的視訊會議已經結束。我們感謝大家，祝大家下午愉快。

Editor^ Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

編輯^ 本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員朗讀的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。