Braskem SA (BAK) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and thank you for waiting. Welcome to Braskem's Third Quarter of 2023 Results Conference Call. With us here today we have Mr. Roberto Bischoff, Braskem's CEO; Mr. Pedro Freitas, Braskem's CFO; and Mrs. Rosana Avolio, Director of Investor Relations, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence.

早上好，感謝您的等待。歡迎參加 Braskem 2023 年第三季業績電話會議。今天與我們在一起的有 Braskem 執行長 Roberto Bischoff 先生； Braskem 財務長 Pedro Freitas 先生；羅莎娜·阿沃里奧 (Rosana Avolio) 女士，投資者關係、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監。

We'd like to notify you that this event is being recorded. (Operator Instructions) After Braskem's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. At that time, further instructions will be given. (Operator Instructions) This event is also being broadcast live via webcast and may be accessed through Braskem's website at https:\\www.braskem-ri.com.br, where the presentation will also be available.

我們謹通知您此事件正在被記錄。 （操作員指示） Braskem 發言後，將進行問答環節。屆時，將作出進一步指示。 （操作員說明）該活動也透過網路廣播進行現場直播，並且可以透過 Braskem 的網站 https:\\www.braskem-ri.com.br 進行訪問，也可以在該網站上觀看演示。

The selection of slides will be controlled by you. The audio will be available shortly after the event has concluded. We'd like to remind all participants that you may post your questions through the Braskem website. They will be answered by the IR team after the conference has completed.

幻燈片的選擇將由您控制。音訊將在活動結束後不久提供。我們想提醒所有參與者，您可以透過 Braskem 網站發布您的問題。會議結束後，IR 團隊將予以答覆。

Before proceeding, let us also remind you that forward-looking statements are based on the beliefs and assumptions of Braskem's management and on information currently available to the company. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties because they relate to future events and, therefore, depend on circumstances that may or may not occur. Investors and analysts should understand that macroeconomic conditions, industry conditions and other factors could also cause results to differ materially from those expressed in such forward-looking statements.

在繼續之前，我們還提醒您，前瞻性陳述基於 Braskem 管理層的信念和假設以及公司目前掌握的資訊。這些前瞻性陳述涉及風險和不確定性，因為它們與未來事件有關，因此取決於可能發生或可能不會發生的情況。投資者和分析師應該明白，宏觀經濟狀況、產業狀況和其他因素也可能導致結果與此類前瞻性聲明中表達的結果有重大差異。

Now I would like to turn the conference over to Mrs. Rosana Avolio, Director of IR, Strategic Planning and Corporate Market Intelligence. She will begin her presentation. Mrs. Avolio, you may begin your presentation.

現在我想把會議交給IR、策略規劃和企業市場情報總監Rosana Avolio 女士。她將開始她的演講。阿沃里奧女士，您可以開始演講了。

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for participating in Braskem's earnings conference call. Today, we will present the third quarter 2023 results. Let's start the presentation on Slide 3 with the quarter's highlights.

早安，女士們，先生們。感謝您參加 Braskem 的收益電話會議。今天，我們將公佈 2023 年第三季業績。讓我們從幻燈片 3 上的季度亮點開始演示。

In the third quarter 2023, Braskem's recurring EBITDA was $187 million with a noncash loss of $497 million and the cash consumption, excluding Alagoas disbursement of $69 million. I would like to emphasize that the company maintained a robust liquidity position, ended the quarter with a cash position of $3.4 billion, which is sufficient to cover all of its debts for the next 6 years. This amount is not considering the standby revolving facility of $1 billion available until 2026. It's worth mentioning that Braskem's debt profile remains very long with an average term of 12 years, and the net debt remained controlled at a lower level when compared to the historical levels of the company.

2023 年第三季度，Braskem 的經常性 EBITDA 為 1.87 億美元，非現金損失為 4.97 億美元，現金消耗（不包括阿拉戈斯支出）為 6,900 萬美元。我想強調的是，該公司保持了強勁的流動性狀況，本季末現金部位為 34 億美元，足以償還未來 6 年的所有債務。這筆金額並未考慮到2026年可用的10億美元備用循環貸款。值得一提的是，Braskem的債務狀況仍然很長，平均期限為12年，且淨債務與歷史水準相比仍控制在較低水準該公司的。

Regarding the operational highlights, the global accident frequency rate was 8% lower when compared to the previous quarter. Sales in the Brazil segment increased by 12% in the national market when compared to the second quarter of 2023, which represents a higher increase than the Brazilian demand in the period. I also highlight the green ethylene utilization rate, which reached 108% in the third quarter of 2023 due to the conclusion of the capacity expansion project and the implementation of industrial efficiency projects.

從營運亮點來看，全球事故頻率較上一季下降了 8%。與 2023 年第二季相比，巴西國內市場的銷售額成長了 12%，增幅高於巴西同期需求。我還強調了綠色乙烯利用率，由於產能擴張專案的完成和工業增效專案的實施，2023年第三季綠色乙烯利用率達到108%。

On the strategic front, Braskem presently opened an office in Japan, which has a very important consumer market for the company's Green PE biopolymer since the start-up of our plant. I would also like to highlight the constitution of Braskem Siam, a joint venture between Braskem and SCG Chemicals, which will be responsible for the construction project of green ethylene in Thailand. Lastly, the financing of Mexico's import terminal was concluded, and the fiscal progress was 48% by the end of October.

在策略方面，Braskem 目前在日本開設了辦事處，自從我們工廠投產以來，日本對我們的綠色 PE 生物聚合物有著非常重要的消費市場。我還想強調Braskem Siam的組建，它是Braskem和SCG Chemicals的合資企業，將負責泰國綠色乙烯建設項目。最後，墨西哥進口碼頭融資完成，截至10月底財政進度達48%。

Now let's move on to the next slide. The third quarter of 2023 consolidated recurring EBITDA was 34% higher than the previous quarter, totaling $187 million in the quarter. This increase is given mainly by the higher resin sales volume in Brazil, higher Green PE sales, higher PP sales volume in the United States and Europe segment, and the posting of special regime for the chemical industry tax credits, the REIQ, which returned in the third quarter after the signing of the decree that regulated the program.

現在讓我們轉到下一張投影片。 2023 年第三季合併經常性 EBITDA 比上一季高出 34%，該季總計 1.87 億美元。這一增長主要是由於巴西樹脂銷量的增加、綠色 PE 銷量的增加、美國和歐洲市場 PP 銷量的增加以及化學工業稅收抵免特殊制度（REIQ）的發布，該制度於 2017 年回歸。監管該計劃的法令簽署後的第三季。

Let's move on to the next slide. Regarding the results for Brazil segment, the utilization rate in the quarter was up 68%, 4 percentage points inferior to the second quarter of 2023, mainly due to unscheduled shutdowns at Braskem and some major chemical customers. However, Brazil segment presented a 12% increase in sales volume in the national market, above the demand in the period. The export volume was also higher, explained by better opportunities in the international market. In this regard, recurring EBITDA in Brazil was $115 million in the third quarter, representing 63% of the company's consolidated recurring EBITDA and 42% higher than the previous quarter.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片。巴西板塊業績方面，本季利用率成長68%，較2023年第二季下降4個百分點，主要是由於Braskem和部分主要化學客戶非計畫停產。然而，巴西市場的國內市場銷量成長了 12%，高於同期需求。由於國際市場機會較好，出口量也有所增加。就此而言，第三季巴西的經常性 EBITDA 為 1.15 億美元，佔該公司合併經常性 EBITDA 的 63%，比上一季高出 42%。

Let's move on to the next slide. The green ethylene utilization rate was 108%, an increase of 24 percentage points when compared to the previous quarter. It's worth noting that -- the utilization rates presented in relation to the capacity installed in each quarter. This increase is based on the conclusion of the green ethylene capacity expansion project in Rio Grande do Sul and the result of the initiatives of industrial efficiency implemented by the company during the scheduled shutdown in the first half of 2023. In this scenario, the Green PE sales volume increased 48% in the quarter.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片。綠色乙烯利用率為108%，季增24個百分點。值得注意的是，利用率與每季安裝的容量有關。這一增長是基於南里奧格蘭德州綠色乙烯產能擴張項目的結束以及該公司在2023年上半年計劃停產期間實施的工業效率舉措的結果。在這種情況下，綠色PE本季度銷量增長48% 。

Recently, Braskem opened its first office in Japan. The country has been developing robust public policies for the renewable resins market with well-defined strategies, road maps and goals. The company has as a national goal to introduce about 2 million tons of biopolymer products in its economy by 2030. Those actions reinforced its position as a country with a relevant and strategic market for Braskem's I'm Green PE. Green PE operations integrated Braskem's corporate strategy to 2030 through its bio-based growth avenue, which I will update you in the next slide.

最近，Braskem 在日本開設了第一家辦公室。該國一直在為再生樹脂市場制定強有力的公共政策，並制定明確的策略、路線圖和目標。該公司的國家目標是到 2030 年在其經濟中引入約 200 萬噸生物聚合物產品。這些行動鞏固了其作為 Braskem 的 I'm Green PE 的相關戰略市場國家的地位。綠色私募股權業務透過其生物基成長途徑將 Braskem 的企業策略整合到 2030 年，我將在下一張投影片中向您介紹最新情況。

In the quarter, Braskem Siam was incorporated, a joint venture between Braskem and SCG Chemicals for the conduction of the construction of projects of the green ethylene plant in Thailand. The site will have a production capacity of up to 200,000 tons of green ethylene. The project is now under predetailing phase of engineering and expectation of investment is -- will be made by the end of 2024.

本季度，Braskem Siam 成立，這是 Braskem 與 SCG Chemicals 的合資企業，負責泰國綠色乙烯工廠項目的建設。該工廠將擁有高達20萬噸綠色乙烯的生產能力。該項目目前正處於工程預詳設計階段，預計投資將於 2024 年底完成。

I would like to highlight that the technology adopted EtE EverGreen is owned by Braskem and prevenient from a partnership with Lummus Technology. Besides representing Braskem's first industrial footprint in Asia, this project is an important step in our bio-based growth avenue, and it will contribute to the achievement of the commitment of expanding the capacity production of green products to 1 million tons by 2030.

我想強調的是，所採用的 EtE EverGreen 技術由 Braskem 擁有，並且是與 Lummus Technology 合作的。該計畫不僅代表了Braskem在亞洲的第一個工業足跡，也是我們在生物基成長道路上邁出的重要一步，它將有助於實現到2030年將綠色產品產能擴大到100萬噸的承諾。

Let's move on to the next slide. We will then discuss the updates on Alagoas geological event. Regarding the financial compensation proposals, we already presented more than 99% of the total estimated proposals, which around 97% were accepted and around 93% were already paid. Their relocation program continues to make progress. And by the end of the quarter, 99.2% were executed.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片。然後我們將討論阿拉戈斯地質事件的最新情況。關於經濟補償建議，我們已經提交了預計建議總數的99%以上，其中約97%被接受，約93%已支付。他們的搬遷計劃繼續取得進展。截至本季末，執行率達 99.2%。

About closing and monitoring of wells of the sand filling group, 4 wells were concluded, 1 is waiting for the approval of the National Agency of Mining and 4 are in progress. The natural filling group was 100% concluded, and the tamponade and monitoring groups are still in progress. The work groups continue to make progress according to the schedule established with the authorities.

充砂組井關閉監測工作已完成4口井，1口井等待國家礦產局審批，4口井正在進行中。自然充填組已100%結束，填塞組和監測組仍在進行中。工作小組繼續按照與當局製定的時間表取得進展。

On the next slide, I'll continue discussing about the Alagoas geological event. As for the social urban and environmental development measures, all the 11 mobility actions are ongoing. Of this 11, 8 already have their executive projects concluded, 3 are under construction and 1 project is planned to begin in the fourth quarter of this year. We are still making progress on the urban integration project and the development of the Flexais with the 11 urban requalification actions implemented from the 23 estimated actions.

在下一張投影片中，我將繼續討論阿拉戈斯地質事件。至於社會城市和環境發展措施，所有11項交通行動都正在進行中。這11個項目中，8個已完成實施項目，3個項目正在建設中，1個項目計劃於今年第四季啟動。我們在城市一體化計畫和 Flexais 開發方面仍在取得進展，從 23 項預計行動中實施了 11 項城市重新資格行動。

Lastly, the environmental plan continues to make progress. Regarding the provisions made for the geological event in Alagoas, the total amount provisioned was BRL 14.4 billion, of which were already disbursed BRL 9.2 billion by the end of September 2023. Therefore, the total amount of provisions registered by the end of the third quarter of 2023 was approximately BRL 5.6 billion.

最後，環境規劃不斷取得進展。關於為阿拉戈斯地質事件提供的準備金，準備金總額為144億雷亞爾，其中截至2023年9月底已支付92億雷亞爾。因此，截至第三季末登記的準備金總額2023 年約56 億雷亞爾。

Note that Braskem cannot eliminate the possibility of any future developments related to the matter or the associated expenses. And any costs to be incurred could differ from the -- our estimates or cumulative amounts.

請注意，Braskem 無法消除與該事項或相關費用相關的任何未來發展的可能性。產生的任何成本可能與我們的估計或累積金額不同。

Let's move on to the next slide, when we will discuss the United States and Europe highlights. And in the United States and Europe segment, the utilization rate in the third quarter of 2023 was 81% aligned with the previous quarter and 6 percentage points higher than the third quarter of last year, due to scheduled shutdowns in the same period last year. Sales volumes also remained in line with the previous quarter and rose 7% when compared to the same quarter of last year due to destocking in the period. Recurring EBITDA of the segment totaled $60 million in the quarter and represented 32% of the company's consolidated recurring EBITDA.

讓我們繼續看下一張幻燈片，我們將討論美國和歐洲的亮點。而在美國和歐洲部分，由於去年同期計畫停工，2023年第三季的利用率與上一季持平，為81%，比去年第三季高出6個百分點。由於期內去庫存，銷量也與上一季持平，較去年同期成長 7%。本季該部門的經常性 EBITDA 總額為 6,000 萬美元，占公司合併經常性 EBITDA 的 32%。

Moving on, we will talk about Mexico. Mexico's utilization rate was 66% in the third quarter of 2023 lower than that of the second quarter of 2023 and the third quarter of 2022 due to unscheduled shutdown in the region because of electrical failures in the national system and by the lower ethane availability by PEMEX. Despite these challenges, the sales volume remained aligned with the previous quarter due to stock optimization in order to supply the clients in the period. The recurring EBITDA of Mexico segment was $8 million, representing 4% of the company's consolidated recurring EBITDA.

接下來，我們將談論墨西哥。墨西哥 2023 年第三季的使用率為 66%，低於 2023 年第二季和 2022 年第三季度，原因是國家系統電力故障導致該地區計劃外關閉以及 PEMEX 乙烷供應量較低。儘管面臨這些挑戰，但由於庫存優化，以便在此期間向客戶供貨，銷售仍與上一季保持一致。墨西哥部門的經常性 EBITDA 為 800 萬美元，占公司合併經常性 EBITDA 的 4%。

Moving on to the next slide, we will talk about the ethane import terminal in Mexico. Terminal Química Puerto México is a company created by Braskem Idesa in a partnership with Advario, concluded the process of financing or maintaining in the amount of $408 million. This is a syndicated project finance loan that involves 6 financial entities with a maturity of 5 years and usual guarantees for this kind of transaction.

轉到下一張幻燈片，我們將討論墨西哥的乙烷進口碼頭。 Terminal Química Puerto México 是一家由 Braskem Idesa 與 Advario 合作創建的公司，已完成融資或維持金額 4.08 億美元的流程。這是一筆涉及6家金融實體的銀團專案融資貸款，期限為5年，並為此類交易提供常規擔保。

Considering this financing, the capital structure of the project will be 30% equity and 70% debt from all resources invested throughout the project. The ethane import terminal integrates Braskem's global strategy for 2030 through the traditional business growth avenue and will permit the supply of up to 80,000 ethane barrels per day to Braskem Idesa, around 120% of its current need and should start its operation by the second half of 2024. The physical progress of the construction was 48% by the end of October 2023.

考慮到本次融資，該專案的資本結構將為30%股權和70%債務，來自整個專案投資的所有資源。乙烷進口碼頭透過傳統的業務成長途徑整合了Braskem的2030年全球策略，將允許每天向Braskem Idesa供應多達80,000桶乙烷，約佔其當前需求的120%，預計將於2020年下半年開始營運。2024年。截至2023年10月，工程實際進度為48%。

Let's move on to the next slide, please. Regarding consolidated cash flow, Braskem presented a positive variation in working capital of BRL 1.3 billion due to working capital optimization in the quarter. This positive effect was offset by operational and strategic investments carried out in the period, interest payments and the payment of income tax and social contribution due in the quarter, which led to cash consumption of BRL 329 million in the period. [EBITDA] payments related to the geological event in Alagoas, cash consumption in the period totaled around BRL 1.4 billion in the third quarter of 2023.

請繼續看下一張投影片。關於合併現金流，由於本季營運資本優化，Braskem 的營運資本出現 13 億雷亞爾的正變動。這一正面影響被本季進行的營運和策略性投資、利息支付以及本季應付的所得稅和社會繳款所抵消，導致本季現金消耗為 3.29 億雷亞爾。 [EBITDA] 與阿拉戈斯地質事件相關的付款，2023 年第三季的現金消耗總額約為 14 億雷亞爾。

Let's move on to the next slide, please. Braskem maintained a very long debt profile with an average payment term of 12 years and an average weighted cost of exchange variation of an additional 6.2%. I also highlight that 2/3 of the company's debt is concentrated in 2030 onwards. Braskem's cash position is sufficient to cover its obligation for the next 6 years without considering the international standby credit facility of $1 billion, which is available for the company until 2026. It's also important to highlight that Braskem continue to be an investment-grade company by S&P and Fitch rating agencies.

請繼續看下一張投影片。 Braskem 的債務狀況很長，平均還款期限為 12 年，平均加權匯率變動成本額外增加 6.2%。我還強調，公司2/3的債務集中在2030年後。 Braskem 的現金狀況足以支付其未來 6 年的債務，無需考慮該公司可在 2026 年之前使用的 10 億美元國際備用信貸額度。同樣重要的是要強調，Braskem 仍將是一家投資級公司標準普爾和惠譽評級機構。

Moving on to the next slide, we will discuss the corporate credit and leverage metrics. By the end of the quarter, Braskem's corporate leverage was 12.2x due to the lower EBITDA in the last 12 months. The indebtedness level remains stable, aligned with the previous quarter and lower when compared to the quarterly average of the last 6 years. Braskem continues to present solid credit metrics in a healthy and comfortable level of liquidity.

前往下一張投影片，我們將討論企業信用和槓桿指標。截至本季末，由於過去 12 個月的 EBITDA 較低，Braskem 的企業槓桿為 12.2 倍。債務水準保持穩定，與上一季持平，且低於過去 6 年的季度平均值。 Braskem 繼續以健康舒適的流動性水準提供可靠的信用指標。

Let's go to the next slide, please. Petrochemical spreads in international markets continue to be pressured during the period as a result of the historically low levels of global demand, combined with the entry into operation of new capacities and consequently, greater supply of products on the market.

請轉到下一張投影片。由於全球需求處於歷史低位，加上新產能投入運營，市場上產品供應增加，國際市場石化產品的價差持續受到壓力。

However, the path of some spreads during the quarter was upwards between July and September as for polyethylene, mainly due to the increase in the price of petrochemical resins in the international market as a result of the increase in the price of Brent and the naphtha following the OPEC production cut announcements, which impacted the cost of production for marginal producers. The expectation is that 2024 should present a gradual recovery of the petrochemical spreads in the international market. According to the sectors, many external consultants, guiding the industry profitability from a down cycle to an average cycle over the next few years.

然而，本季聚乙烯的價差在7月至9月期間有所上行，主要是由於布倫特和石腦油價格上漲導致國際市場石化樹脂價格上漲。歐佩克減產公告影響了邊際生產商的生產成本。預計2024年國際市場石化價差將逐漸恢復。據業內人士介紹，不少外部顧問預計，未來幾年將引導產業獲利能力從下降週期轉向平均週期。

Let's move on to the next slide. Regarding Brazil segment, we expect a reduction in the ethylene production levels in the fourth quarter of 2023 due to the maintenance shutdown in the petrochemical complex in Bahia. On the sales front, we expect a reduction in the resin sales volume due to the seasonality of the period and a reduction in the mechanical sales volume due to a lower ethylene utilization rate. Spreads may grow considering the increase in the resins and the main chemical prices in the international market.

讓我們繼續看下一張投影片。關於巴西部分，由於巴伊亞石化廠的維護停工，我們預計 2023 年第四季乙烯產量水準將下降。在銷售方面，我們預計樹脂銷售將因季節性因素而減少，而機械銷售將因乙烯利用率下降而減少。考慮到國際市場樹脂和主要化學品價格的上漲，價差可能會擴大。

For the United States and Europe segment, the utilization rate may remain stable. The sales volume may be lower in the quarter, and the spreads may remain stable.

對於美國和歐洲部分，利用率可能保持穩定。本季銷售量可能較低，價差可能保持穩定。

Lastly, for Mexico, we expect an increase in the production. Sales volume may remain stable considering the inventory recomposing. And spreads are likely to increase due to higher prices in -- of PE in the international market.

最後，對於墨西哥，我們預期產量會增加。考慮到庫存重組，銷售量可能會保持穩定。由於國際市場上 PE 價格上漲，價差可能會增加。

Moving on to the next slide, please. We will comment on the update of the initiatives with the impact on the company's EBITDA and cash generation regarding commercial initiatives, which impact the company's revenue through optimization in global commercial management. So we have the intention of maximizing the synergy among the commercial areas. An example of delivery in this front is the optimization of the sales mix of the company.

請轉到下一張投影片。我們將評論這些舉措的更新，以及對公司 EBITDA 和商業舉措現金的影響，這些舉措透過優化全球商業管理來影響公司的收入。所以我們的目的是最大化商業領域之間的協同作用。這方面的一個例子是優化公司的銷售組合。

Moving on to the initiatives that impact the fixed and variable costs. The company has been implementing several actions in addition to a transversal target of reducing fixed costs in the company, which is on track. We are also working on the asset management strategy globally, which resulted in the hibernation of 1 PP line at the Marcus Hook plant in the United States in the renegotiation of contact with the suppliers and optimization of the company's logistics costs. On the working capital front, the company has been working with several efficiency initiatives for the integrated planning cycle, which is generating results through the optimization of its operational and financial cycle.

接下來討論影響固定成本和變動成本的措施。除了降低公司固定成本的橫向目標外，該公司還採取了多項行動，目前該目標已步入正軌。我們也在全球範圍內制定資產管理策略，導緻美國 Marcus Hook 工廠的 1 條 PP 生產線處於休眠狀態，以便與供應商重新協商聯繫並優化公司的物流成本。在營運資本方面，該公司一直致力於綜合規劃週期的多項效率舉措，透過優化營運和財務週期產生成果。

Regarding CapEx allocation, the company is a CapEx for the year of 2023, 22% lower than last year's CapEx and its achievement is on track. This is due to improvement work in the budgeting and project prioritization process. The company is also working on reassessing its scheduled shutdown strategy. It's worth highlighting that the efficiency initiatives and CapEx allocation do not impact the security of the company's assets or operations.

在資本支出分配方面，該公司2023年的資本支出比去年的資本支出低22%，業績步上正軌。這是由於預算和專案優先順序流程的改進工作。該公司還在努力重新評估其預定的關閉策略。值得強調的是，效率措施和資本支出分配不會影響公司資產或營運的安全。

Finally, the company continues to map and evaluate opportunities to make monetization of adjacent assets such as credit rights, taxes to be recovered and other assets as well as the valuation of the structures to make this monetization feasible. The company reinforced its commitment to continue identifying and implementing opportunities to improve its results and generate value for its shareholders.

最後，公司繼續規劃和評估鄰近資產貨幣化的機會，例如信貸權、要收回的稅收和其他資產，以及使這種貨幣化可行的結構估值。該公司重申了其繼續尋找和實施機會以改善業績並為股東創造價值的承諾。

Let's move on to the next slide, please. Finally, I would like to invite everyone to participate in our Braskem Day. It will be a great opportunity to understand better the company's diverse businesses, its levers and Braskem's value creation strategy. The event will be fully virtual and will take place on November 27. We will forward the invitation with more details soon to all participants in this call and all those subscribed in our mailing list.

請繼續看下一張投影片。最後，我想邀請大家參加我們的 Braskem Day。這將是更好地了解公司多元化業務、槓桿和 Braskem 價值創造策略的絕佳機會。活動將完全虛擬進行，並將於 11 月 27 日舉行。我們將盡快向本次電話會議的所有參與者以及我們郵件清單中訂閱的所有參與者轉發包含更多詳細資訊的邀請函。

That concludes today's presentation of Braskem's results for the third quarter of 2023. Thank you for your attention. Now let's move on to the question-and-answer session.

今天 Braskem 2023 年第三季業績介紹到此結束。感謝您的關注。現在我們進入問答環節。

Thank you. We will now begin the Q&A session for analysts and investors. (Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Pedro Soares from BTG Pactual.

謝謝。我們現在開始分析師和投資人的問答環節。 （操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自 BTG Pactual 的 Pedro Soares。

I have a question with regard to the discussion that Rosana brought about monetizing assets near the end of her remarks. And with regard to the company's leveraging levels and structures, does it also make sense for us to discuss or to consider the company's operating assets, the relevant ones that you could share with us?

我對羅莎娜在演講結束時提出的關於資產貨幣化的討論有一個疑問。關於公司的槓桿水平和結構，我們討論或考慮公司的營運資產是否也有意義，您可以與我們分享相關的資產嗎？

I'd also like to ask about the hibernation in the Marcus Hook plant in the United States. And if there are any discussions or points you can make in that regard, that would be very grateful for me.

我還想問問美國馬庫斯胡克工廠的冬眠狀況。如果您能在這方面提出任何討論或觀點，我將非常感激。

Hi, Pedro, and good morning, everyone. Now with regard to assets, we always evaluate the asset portfolio as a whole. And I'd like to make a comment with regard to the Marcus Hook plant, that hibernation is largely a result of the fact that there was insufficient raw materials for that line to be operating.

嗨，佩德羅，大家早安。現在說到資產，我們總是把資產組合當作一個整體來評估。我想對馬庫斯胡克工廠發表評論，該工廠的休眠很大程度上是由於該生產線沒有足夠的原材料來運作。

The plant has 2 lines, and they were running under load, under capacity. And so we made a decision based on the fact that it would not be worthwhile to keep that line operational. That's why it was paused. As soon as more inputs are available once again, that production line will come back, and it will be fully productive. So this is a recurring line of thinking that we have at Braskem, it's always something that we are considering.

該工廠有 2 條生產線，它們都在負荷、產能不足的情況下運作。因此，我們做出的決定是基於這樣一個事實：保持該生產線的運作並不值得。這就是它被暫停的原因。一旦有更多的投入再次可用，該生產線就會恢復，並且將充分發揮生產力。所以這是我們 Braskem 反覆出現的想法，也是我們一直在考慮的事情。

Now when we think about monetizing assets and leveraging levels, as you mentioned, we have core assets and noncore assets for each operation. And from time to time, we assess our noncore assets. Now specifically, the noncore assets that we have, they have depreciated considerably, so there is a very important amount of the investigation that needs to be made about the capital there.

現在，當我們考慮資產貨幣化和槓桿水平時，正如您所提到的，我們每個業務都有核心資產和非核心資產。我們不時評估我們的非核心資產。具體來說，我們擁有的非核心資產已經大幅貶值，因此需要對那裡的資本進行大量調查。

And when we decided to move forward with some kind of monetization for a noncore asset, it is because we looked at the capital and the impact, so we do analyze that from time to time. And if there is ever a more pressing need, we could monetize those assets if there is fiscal imperative, but we've decided not to do that because we are not in that kind of scenario right now. Now for core assets, that's -- that would be a little bit more difficult.

當我們決定對非核心資產進行某種貨幣化時，是因為我們考慮了資本和影響，所以我們會不時地進行分析。如果有更迫切的需求，如果有財務需要，我們可以將這些資產貨幣化，但我們決定不這樣做，因為我們現在還沒有處於這種情況。現在對於核心資產來說，那就有點困難了。

Braskem over the past 20 years has been consolidating and establishing itself with a focus on the product. So when we look at our product portfolio, our geography and asset portfolios, we do not look at industrial assets and say, "Oh, this is not core for the company. " Now obviously, in a scenario that is different from the one in which we currently find ourselves, where you have significant growth of net debt because we look at net debt considerably.

Braskem 在過去的 20 年裡一直以產品為重點來鞏固和發展自己。因此，當我們審視我們的產品組合、地理位置和資產組合時，我們不會在審視工業資產時說：「哦，這不是公司的核心。」現在顯然，在一個與之前不同的場景中。我們目前發現，淨債務顯著增長，因為我們相當重視淨債務。

And we are actually at a lower level of net debt than we traditionally have been. But if a scenario occurs where we have very much net debt, then we could consider that, but I would say that we are not currently in that kind of scenario.

事實上，我們的淨債務水準比傳統水準低。但如果出現我們有大量淨債務的情況，那麼我們可以考慮這種情況，但我想說我們目前還沒有處於這種情況。

So to summarize, asset monetization is something that we do investigate while managing the company's assets, the noncore ones that we do identify have a fiscal limit that does not explain or justify monetization at the moment. And for core assets, that would be something that we would look at in a different kind of scenario, not the one we're at right now. If that does come to pass, then we could investigate that monetization.

總而言之，資產貨幣化是我們在管理公司資產時所做的調查，我們確實確定的非核心資產具有財務限制，目前無法解釋或證明貨幣化的合理性。對於核心資產，我們將在另一種情況下考慮，而不是現在的情況。如果這種情況確實發生，那麼我們就可以調查這種貨幣化情況。

I'd just like to ask a follow-up. Would it make sense for us to imagine that in terms of short-term priority, let's say, to protect the company's cash flow and the results that we forecast that would be a little bit lower, this would be the result of a lower CapEx for next year? Even the company's working CapEx, they are likely to be at lower levels than traditionally. So guiding CapEx is a maintenance CapEx, right?

我只是想問一下後續情況。我們是否可以想像，就短期優先事項而言，比如說，為了保護公司的現金流以及我們預測的結果會稍微低一些，這將是資本支出較低的結果明年？即使該公司的營運資本支出也可能低於傳統水準。所以指導資本支出是維護資本支出，對嗎？

Yes, yes. And I would go back to Slide 18 in Rosana's remarks, which have the results for this year. For next year, we continue to emphasize and to reinforce those measures. In the commercial efforts, we continue to seek more profitable market conditions that will increase our value. And I think that something that should bring some benefits for next year, especially considering the full year, the closed year, we have the green ethane -- ethylene sorry, and this is going to bring some positive results. And also, we have adjustments to various business lines.

是的是的。我想回到羅莎娜演講中的幻燈片 18，其中有今年的結果。明年，我們將繼續強調並強化這些措施。在商業努力中，我們不斷尋求更有利可圖的市場條件，這將增加我們的價值。我認為這應該會為明年帶來一些好處，特別是考慮到全年，封閉的一年，我們有綠色乙烷——對不起，乙烯，這將帶來一些積極的結果。另外，我們對各個業務線也有調整。

The fixed cost for next year, we have defined a fixed target for next year to reduce beyond inflation changes. So for 2024, the number that -- we're currently working on the budget, but it's going to be 2% to 5% lower than the number for this year. So we're going to absorb inflation and additionally reduce fixed costs. This could mean an additional $100 million perhaps just in the reduction alone. Now -- and if we consider inflation, it's more than that.

明年的固定成本，我們為明年確定了一個固定目標，以減少通膨以外的變化。對於 2024 年，我們目前正在製定預算，但會比今年的數字減少 2% 到 5%。因此，我們將吸收通貨膨脹並另外降低固定成本。這可能意味著僅僅減少一億美元就可能增加 1 億美元。現在——如果我們考慮通貨膨脹，情況不止於此。

And working capital continues to be a large and primary focus of ours. There are some short-term decisions we make. But then there are some structural decisions as well that we are also analyzing, and we will start to see some benefits of these structural changes that we have been making in managing our working capital CapEx for next year.

營運資金仍然是我們的主要關注點。我們做出一些短期決定。但我們也在分析一些結構性決策，我們將開始看到我們在管理明年的營運資本資本支出所做的這些結構性變化的一些好處。

There's a positive aspect next year, which is there is not going to be a general pause next year. So we are moving to make it so that next year's CapEx is under $500 million. We are still trying to reach a number that is significantly and materially lower than what we have today. We have the terminal next year as well, so that's something we're looking at separately.

明年有一個積極的方面，那就是明年不會出現普遍的停頓。因此，我們正在努力使明年的資本支出低於 5 億美元。我們仍在努力達到一個遠低於今天的數字。明年我們也會有終端，所以這是我們單獨考慮的事情。

And we're also looking for other opportunities to monetize assets, some other assets that we own, so we remain working on all of these efforts. And when we look at the projections, again, we don't see a situation that would lead us to have to make any more expressive conversions.

我們也正在尋找其他機會將資產（我們擁有的其他一些資​​產）貨幣化，因此我們將繼續致力於所有這些努力。當我們再次查看預測時，我們沒有看到任何情況會導致我們必須進行任何更具表現力的轉換。

Our next question comes from Gabriel Barra from Citibank.

我們的下一個問題來自花旗銀行的加布里埃爾·巴拉 (Gabriel Barra)。

I have 2 points I'd like to explore a little bit more. The first is with regard to the recent news. I think we -- it was mentioned 2 to 3 calls ago, with -- I know it's difficult to talk about it, offers, and there has been discussion, I know, but could you please explain a little bit more about the details of the tagalong and perhaps the -- with regard to the shareholders' agreement? This is -- I'm wondering about the controlling structure. Is there any light you could shed on that? It would be interesting to start thinking about potential future M&As in this context.

我有兩點想進一步探討。首先是關於最近的新聞。我想我們——在 2 到 3 個電話之前就提到過——我知道很難談論它，我知道，並且已經進行了討論，但是您能否請您解釋一下更多細節tagalong，或許還有——關於股東協議？這是——我想知道控制結構。您對此有何看法？在這種背景下開始思考未來潛在的併購將會很有趣。

And the second question is about Alagoas. There was that relevant fact that the company has been discussing the relationship between the company and the state that has been making moves in Alagoas, and there are some points to be discussed there. So could you please give us a few thoughts about the scope of this item, this call?

第二個問題是關於阿拉戈斯的。有一個相關事實是，該公司一直在討論該公司與在阿拉戈斯採取行動的國家之間的關係，並且有一些要點需要討論。那麼您能否給我們一些關於本次通話的範圍的想法？

Well, for (inaudible), the information that we have is reflected in the relevant fact that we published this morning. And the tagalong is going to respect all legislations and the structure that is already in place.

嗯，對於（聽不清楚），我們所掌握的資訊反映在我們今天早上發布的相關事實中。塔加隆將尊重所有立法和現有的結構。

Now what -- you asked about whether Novonor will continue to have a minority position whether or not that triggers a tagalong clause. Well, strictly speaking, tagalong clauses pertain to changes in control. So if Novonor stops being a controller, then that would be triggered. But we don't yet know how this structure could be organized or how it should be organized or enacted even. So I think at the end of the day, it really is going to depend on how these different aspects are actually implemented.

現在，您詢問 Novonor 是否會繼續擁有少數股權，無論這是否會觸發 tagalong 條款。嚴格來說，標籤條款與控制權變更有關。因此，如果 Novonor 不再是控制者，那麼就會觸發這種情況。但我們還不知道如何組織這個結構，或應該如何組織或發展它。所以我認為歸根結底，這確實取決於這些不同方面的實際實施方式。

So I'm sorry I can't be of more help to brainstorm really because we, ourselves, need more clarity about Novonor's movements and the consequences thereof and whether or not there's going to be a tagalong. But it's -- at the end of the day, it's about -- it is triggered when there is a change in control. So that's when tagalong clause is triggered.

所以很抱歉，我無法為集思廣益提供更多幫助，因為我們自己需要更清楚地了解諾沃諾的動向及其後果，以及是否會出現塔加隆。但歸根結底，當控制權發生變化時，它就會被觸發。這就是 tagalong 子句被觸發的時候。

Now there's something else that I think is important. It -- we definitely should reflect on this. At the moment, this is a nonbinding offer. And I think that if there is a binding offer that is made, then we will know in more details how this is going to work out.

現在還有一件事我認為很重要。我們絕對應該反思這一點。目前，這是一個不具約束力的要約。我認為，如果提出具有約束力的要約，那麼我們將更詳細地了解這將如何進行。

Now with regard to Alagoas, we have an initiative, a lawsuit that the state of Alagoas moved against Braskem, asking for -- essentially for reparations. So the main topics there are, firstly, assets that belong to the state of Alagoas that were located in that region and that we're in one way or another lost or have become unusable. These assets are already accounted for in our provisions, and we agree, this is reparation that must be paid. This amount has been provisioned, and this has -- actually has been sent to the court already. Now -- so we do believe that the reparation should be paid in that purview.

現在，關於阿拉戈斯州，我們有一項倡議，阿拉戈斯州對布拉斯科姆提起訴訟，要求賠償。因此，主要主題首先是屬於阿拉戈斯州的資產，這些資產位於該地區，而我們以某種方式丟失或變得無法使用。這些資產已經計入我們的規定中，我們同意，這是必須支付的賠償。這筆金額已經撥備，並且實際上已經發送給法院。現在——所以我們確實認為賠償應該在這個範圍內支付。

There is another element there, which is the concept of lost profits from taxes, lost taxes. There was the ICMS tax that was claimed to be lost profit by the state government. And we do not agree with that claim. We do not agree with the state government in that aspect. So the state government has filed a suit.

還有另一個因素，那就是稅收利潤損失、稅收損失的概念。州政府聲稱 ICMS 稅是利潤損失。我們不同意這種說法。我們在這方面不同意州政府的意見。因此州政府已提起訴訟。

There was an initial court decision saying that these costs are owed and Braskem was mandated to reimburse the state government, including for the loss of potential tax revenue. Now we have appealed that case, that lawsuit. And we are going to remain alert. And I mean I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know enough about Brazilian legislation to really give you a qualified answer, but we are positive that this topic does merit a lot of investigation by the judiciary. And we can't create a precedent that is founded on incorrect assumptions. And this would be bad for Brazil as a whole, not just for ourselves.

法院初步判決稱，這些費用是應得的，布拉斯科姆必須償還州政府，包括潛在稅收損失。現在我們已經對那個案件、那個訴訟提出了上訴。我們將保持警惕。我的意思是，我不是律師，我對巴西立法的了解還不夠，無法真正給你一個合格的答案，但我們確信這個主題確實值得司法部門進行大量調查。我們不能創造一個建立在錯誤假設上的先例。這對整個巴西來說都是不利的，而不僅僅是對我們自己不利。

So in short, we are discussing with the judiciary and with the state of Alagoas about how that's going to proceed moving forward. So that -- to summarize, we do agree about the properties, and we do not agree about the taxes, and this is going to be discussed in court.

簡而言之，我們正在與司法部門和阿拉戈斯州討論如何繼續前進。因此，總而言之，我們在財產方面確實達成一致，但在稅收方面我們不同意，這將在法庭上討論。

Our next question comes from Milene Carvalho from JPMorgan.

我們的下一個問題來自摩根大通的 Milene Carvalho。

I have 2 questions on my side. The first in fact is a follow-up on the previous question related to Alagoas. I think you did not disclose the amount involved. We read some articles in the press and in the CapEx that you've raised about the damages and loss of profit, which would be the amount that is requested by the government, state government.

我有兩個問題。事實上，第一個問題是上一個與阿拉戈斯相關的問題的後續。我認為你沒有透露涉及的金額。我們在媒體和資本支出中讀到了一些關於損害和利潤損失的文章，這將是政府、州政府要求的金額。

My second question is related to the outlook for the fourth quarter. You exceeded your expectations. I think we've had many challenging quarters for the chemical industry. And when we look at the starting point, especially related to Brazil, whose contribution is the most important one. So we see the level of capacity and for the fourth quarter, we have the stoppage at Bahia facilities. And we are not going to have the destocking effect that we had in the previous quarter. How do you see these operational pathways for the fourth quarter items of recovery?

我的第二個問題涉及第四季的前景。你超出了你的預期。我認為化學工業經歷了許多充滿挑戰的季度。當我們看起點時，尤其是巴西，其貢獻是最重要的。因此，我們看到了第四季度的產能水平，我們在巴伊亞工廠停工。我們不會產生上一季的去庫存效應。您如何看待第四季度復甦專案的這些操作路徑？

With regard to the state government's lawsuit, we -- that -- those numbers have been posted, the value is BRL 1.4 billion. What has been provisioned, now I don't have the exact number, but it's somewhere between BRL 200 million and BRL 300 million. So that portion has been provisioned already and the total value is $1.4 billion.

關於州政府的訴訟，我們已經公佈了這些數字，價值為 14 億雷亞爾。已經提供了什麼，現在我不知道確切的數字，但大概在 2 億雷亞爾到 3 億雷亞爾之間。因此，該部分已經撥備完畢，總價值為 14 億美元。

With regard to the fourth quarter, we have the -- we have expectations and forecasts that will -- that point to improvements, but with the pause in Bahia, as you mentioned, production volume should remain at a lower level. Now it's important to note that even with a lower production level, we are not -- today, we are not being limited in our sales volume by production volumes. If we had more demand from the market, we would be selling more. And the research we've done corroborates that if there is demand from the market.

關於第四季度，我們有——我們有預期和預測——這表明有所改善，但正如您所提到的，隨著巴伊亞工廠的暫停，產量應保持在較低水平。現在值得注意的是，即使生產水準較低，我們今天的銷售量也不會受到產量的限制。如果市場需求更多，我們就會賣出更多。我們所做的研究證實了市場是否有需求。

And especially in Brazil, this is stronger than in other markets. There is a large volume of products that suffer from seasonality. And we've currently wrapped the third quarter. So our expectation, our forecast is that there should be a drop in sales in Brazil, but a recovery in our results, a compensation effect.

尤其是在巴西，這比其他市場更強勁。有大量產品受到季節性影響。目前我們已經完成了第三季的工作。因此，我們的預期、我們的預測是，巴西的銷售額應該會下降，但我們的業績會回升，這是一種補償效應。

We are currently -- today is November 9. So we have not yet closed the month of October. But talking to the sales department and internal departments, we have seen that October, it was apparently a good month for us. So that combines with something else that we see in Braskem today, there are a few business lines of ours that are very resilient. We have solvents, fuels. We have a number of different business lines that don't really -- very, very much, they don't oscillate in volume. So today, they do have a relevant weight in our numbers. So we see stronger resilience within that lower level and a recovery, especially in PE and PP, where we obviously have more room for recovery when the market recovers.

目前，今天是 11 月 9 日。所以我們還沒有關閉 10 月。但透過與銷售部門和內部部門交談，我們發現十月對我們來說顯然是一個不錯的月份。因此，結合我們今天在布拉斯科姆看到的其他東西，我們的一些業務線非常有彈性。我們有溶劑、燃料。我們有許多不同的業務線，它們的數量實際上並沒有非常非常大的波動。所以今天，它們在我們的數字中確實佔有重要的地位。因此，我們在較低水平內看到了更強的彈性和復甦，尤其是 PE 和 PP，當市場復甦時，我們顯然有更大的復甦空間。

So just to recap, I think for the fourth quarter, we do, in fact, foresee a lower volume of sales but better spreads. And for the next year, I think we still have a low cycle in our sites for the coming year. But the -- I think this isn't in the presentation. But with regard to our spreads in 2024, we will remain at a lower level with lower spreads, but they may possibly improve compared to 2023. And the recovery is also going to come around the end of 2024, perhaps '25, that's when we will see more of a recovery moving forward in a high level by 2026, perhaps.

因此，回顧一下，我認為，事實上，我們確實預計第四季度的銷量會下降，但價差會更好。對於明年，我認為我們的網站明年仍然處於低週期。但我認為這不在簡報中。但就2024年的利差而言，我們將保持在較低的水平，利差較低，但與2023年相比，它們可能會有所改善。復甦也將在2024年底左右出現，也許是25年，那時我們也許到 2026 年，經濟將出現更高水準的復甦。

Our next question comes from Tasso Vasconcellos from UBS.

我們的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的 Tasso Vasconcellos。

I have a question that's actually a follow-up to the tagalong discussion. I think it's very clear conceptually when the tagalong clause will be triggered, when there's a change of control, but what about the converse element, the opposite of that? When will the tagalong not be triggered?

我有一個問題，實際上是 tagalong 討論的後續問題。我認為，當控制權發生變化時，何時觸發 tagalong 子句，概念上非常清楚，但是相反的元素呢？什麼時候標籤不會被觸發？

So to add on, what is Novonor's controlling structure at Braskem like today? And is it possible for this acquisition to come from a holding? And so that would impede any kind of controlling change, right? So when would the tagalong not be triggered? That's my question.

那麼補充一下，如今 Novonor 在 Braskem 的控制結構是什麼樣的呢？此次收購有可能來自控股嗎？因此這會阻礙任何形式的控制變革，對嗎？那麼什麼時候 tagalong 不會被觸發呢？這就是我的問題。

Now about the controlling structure, it is indirect control. So Novonor has a company in the Novonor Group, it's called NSP Investments. And NSP is a company that holds Braskem's shares. So it is indirect control from Novonor S.A.

現在說到控制結構，就是間接控制。 Novonor在Novonor集團有一家公司，叫做NSP Investments。而NSP是一家持有Braskem股份的公司。因此是Novonor S.A.的間接控制。

And about the tagalong clause, I'm going to ask Rosana to go into more detail because she has studied this in more detail. I think she can give you a more objective answer.

關於 tagalong 條款，我將請 Rosana 詳細說明，因為她對此進行了更詳細的研究。我想她能給你一個更客觀的答案。

Tasso, thank you for the question. Here, we are working with a scenario which has a lot of uncertainties as well. All discussions for those interested in acquiring the company does not involve Braskem but only the shareholders. So we are only considering the possibilities, but I'm going to see what the rules say. If there is a change in -- of controller that (inaudible) controller. And if there's a change in the controlling equity, there's a tagalong for the OM and the shareholders.

塔索，謝謝你的提問。在這裡，我們正在處理一個也有很多不確定性的場景。對於有興趣收購該公司的人來說，所有討論都不涉及 Braskem，而只涉及股東。所以我們只考慮可能性，但我會看看規則是怎麼說的。如果控制器（聽不清楚）發生變化。如果控股權發生變化，那麼 OM 和股東就會改變。

I would like to remind you that Braskem is level 1. And if I can see their level 1 rules, so I would have to apply the [incidence of] ordinary shares. And if there is something additional, I will have to make regulations. Why do I say that? Because in our corporate document, we say, if it would be Petrobras who makes the position, the tagalong will not be triggered. So I -- they're ruled. So it's 80% of those who hold ordinary shares. Now if the structure is 1B or C, in fact, we cannot even have a position because at the end of the day, it depends on other elements because this is not a discussion in which we take part, but rather the shareholders.

我想提醒您，Braskem 是 1 級。如果我可以看到他們的 1 級規則，那麼我就必須應用普通股的[發生率]。如果還有什麼額外的事情，我就必須制定規定。我為什麼這麼說呢？因為在我們的公司文件中，我們說，如果是巴西國家石油公司建倉，則不會觸發標籤。所以我——他們被統治了。所以持有普通股的人佔80%。現在如果結構是1B或C，事實上我們甚至不能有一個位置，因為歸根結底，這取決於其他因素，因為這不是我們參與的討論，而是股東參與的討論。

Our next question comes from [Andre Rizzo] from XP Investments.

我們的下一個問題來自 XP Investments 的 [Andre Rizzo]。

I have a couple of questions here. First is, could you please go into a bit more detail about how you foresee the supply of ethane, and specifically over the coming year?

我在這裡有幾個問題。首先，您能否更詳細地介紹您如何預測乙烷的供應，特別是未來一年的供應？

And my next question is, could you please go into a bit more detail about how you see the aspect of the spreads in the market? You recently -- just now mentioned that you think the spreads are going to be a little tighter, but what kind of triggers should we be on the lookout for to see when the market is going to turn around? Have you seen any indicators in that regard? It would be nice for us to have an advance notice.

我的下一個問題是，您能否更詳細地介紹一下您如何看待市場利差的面向？您最近提到，您認為利差將會收窄一些，但是我們應該尋找什麼樣的觸發因素來判斷市場何時會好轉？您有看過這方面的指標嗎？如果能提前通知我們就好了。

Thank you, Andre. Now with regard to PEMEX, we have a contractual agreement, 30,000 barrels a day, which is approximately 35% of Braskem's capacity. And any additional capacity that Braskem produces and does not consume internally. So that works out to giving us access to important volume.

謝謝你，安德烈。現在關於PEMEX，我們有一份合約協議，每天30,000桶，大約是Braskem產能的35%。以及 Braskem 生產且內部未消耗的任何額外產能。這樣我們就可以訪問重要的捲。

PEMEX has been producing considerable volume in production. That volume has fallen, but what I've been hearing from specialists in Mexico is that there is a very slight growth in the offer of domestic ethane in Mexico. Historically, PEMEX has been consuming 20,000 to 30,000 barrels a day, but there's a lot of volatility in that internal consumption. So there are times when they don't consume anything. And other times, they consume more. So there's a lot of variance there.

PEMEX 的產量已相當可觀。這個數量已經下降，但我從墨西哥專家那裡聽到的是，墨西哥國內乙烷的供應量略有增加。從歷史上看，PEMEX 每天消耗 20,000 至 30,000 桶，但內部消耗量有很大波動。所以有時他們不吃任何東西。而其他時候，他們消耗更多。所以那裡有很多差異。

So looking at the fourth quarter and for next year, it's very difficult to foresee because it really depends on PEMEX's operational productivity and in their consumption of ethane for their activities, too. But what we have been seeing is that they have been providing -- supplying even more than the minimum required by contract per day. But it's hard to give you a very clear forecast because there's a lot of variance. It's very volatile. So it depends significantly on their oil and gas production.

因此，展望第四季度和明年，很難預測，因為這實際上取決於 PEMEX 的營運生產力以及其活動的乙烷消耗量。但我們所看到的是，他們一直在提供——甚至超過了合約每天要求的最低限度。但很難給你一個非常明確的預測，因為有很大的差異。它非常不穩定。因此，這在很大程度上取決於它們的石油和天然氣產量。

Now about your question regarding market perspectives and offside possibilities. Today, our numbers, and I'm looking at the 2024 scenario and the fact that the spreads are likely to be similar to 2023, we have low demand around the world. We don't have any forecast for increasing demand. We do not have any material recovery being foreseen onshore or offshore.

現在談談你關於市場前景和越位可能性的問題。今天，我們的數據，我正在考慮 2024 年的情況，事實上，利差可能與 2023 年相似，我們在全球範圍內的需求較低。我們沒有任何需求增加的預測。我們預計不會在陸上或海上進行任何材料回收。

So on the demand side of things, the offside that we see -- because we're considering 2% to 2.5% improvement around the world. And now if the world recovers by 3% or 3.5%, the demand for petrochemical products, that would mean a significant offside on the demand side of things. And that means that there is a recovery in a global level.

因此，在需求方面，我們看到了越位——因為我們正在考慮全球範圍內 2% 到 2.5% 的改善。現在，如果世界對石化產品的需求復甦 3% 或 3.5%，這將意味著需求方面出現重大越位。這意味著全球範圍內正在復甦。

Now on the offer side, there are a number of different offers that have been mapped with our consulting. We map these numbers around the globe. And so we are considering supply side increases. Now what is not under construction will not be considered. So the offside number is a stronger rationalization. We're forecasting 2% to 2.5% improvement for next year. If it is bigger than that -- as we saw in the 2008, 2009 crisis, we saw 7% recovery. So if we see more expressive recovery in capacity, then we do have more options in responding to that. And then that would be very significant. It depends on the movements of the different players.

現在在報價方面，我們的諮詢已經制定了許多不同的報價。我們在全球範圍內繪製了這些數字。因此，我們正在考慮增加供給側。現在不在建設的就不考慮了。所以越位數是更強的合理化。我們預計明年會有 2% 到 2.5% 的改善。如果比這個數字更大——正如我們在 2008 年、2009 年危機中看到的那樣，我們看到了 7% 的復甦。因此，如果我們看到容量恢復得更有表現力，那麼我們確實有更多的選擇來應對。那麼這將是非常重要的。這取決於不同球員的動作。

We are going through this same situation, and it's a very difficult decision to make to pause a plant, to halt a production line. We've done this and seen this before in production lines that we paused. The last one that we paused was in Bahia that was 1 or 2 years ago. And it's always a very rational decision, right? Delicate decision. Because we know that shutting down a plant is going to have consequences around the market. So it's a very strong, strong decision.

我們正在經歷同樣的情況，暫停工廠、停止生產線是一個非常困難的決定。我們已經這樣做過，並且之前在我們暫停的生產線上也看到過這種情況。我們上一次暫停是在一兩年前的巴伊亞。這總是一個非常理性的決定，對吧？微妙的決定。因為我們知道關閉工廠會對市場產生影響。所以這是一個非常非常強烈的決定。

So we imagine that all players are studying the situation and figuring out what can be shut down, what can't, given the current economic scenario and especially what's coming from China. So that being said, we think there is a potential offside in rationalization. And now what I can't easily give you is the timing.

因此，我們想像所有參與者都在研究情況，並根據當前的經濟形勢，特別是來自中國的情況，弄清楚什麼可以關閉，什麼不能關閉。話雖這麼說，我們認為合理化有潛在的越位。現在我不能輕易給你的是時間。

The next question comes from Rodrigo Almeida from Santander.

下一個問題來自桑坦德銀行的羅德里戈·阿爾梅達。

I'd like to ask you about another point that I think hasn't been brought up here today. You talked a little bit about the local competition in the local industry. I wanted to get a little bit more context from you. We've seen the recovery of REIQ, and I think that helped. And I'd like to ask a little bit more, but what else can be done? Is there anything scheduled with regard to imports?

我想問你另一個我認為今天這裡沒有提到的問題。您談到了當地產業的當地競爭。我想從你那裡了解更多背景資訊。我們已經看到 REIQ 的復甦，我認為這有幫助。我還想多問一點，但是還能做什麼呢？進口方面有什麼安排嗎？

I think you mentioned for 2008, 2009, there was something similar in there -- in the level. So I'd like to ask you what points we can look at, how the industry is organizing itself to once again increase the level of competition, that would be great.

我想你提到過 2008 年、2009 年的關卡中有類似的東西。所以我想問一下，我們可以關注哪些點，行業如何組織起來，再次提高競爭水平，那就太好了。

Rodrigo, yes, we do -- we have in some direct discussions within Braskem and public sector representatives. We have been discussing the productivity of the petrochemical industry, both with the federal and state governments. Because after all, when we look at the chemical industry, we see an industry that has a significant percentage of the Brazilian GDP, 11% is the chemical industry with jobs that pay considerably more than average.

羅德里戈，是的，我們確實這樣做——我們在布拉斯科姆和公共部門代表之間進行了一些直接討論。我們一直在與聯邦政府和州政府討論石化產業的生產力。因為畢竟，當我們審視化學工業時，我們發現這個產業佔巴西 GDP 的比重很大，11% 是化學工業，其就業機會的薪資遠高於平均水準。

These positions, I think, it is definitely -- they make it so that it's very much in the government's interest to have a strong chemical industry. And it's also a baseline production, a baseline industry, when you increase the chemical industry production, there's a ride-on effect for the whole country. With -- and we've been discussing in the different states and federal representatives, they do understand the value that we bring.

我認為，這些立場絕對是為了讓擁有強大的化學工業非常符合政府的利益。而且它也是一個基線生產、一個基線產業，當你增加化學工業的產量時，會對整個國家產生連帶效應。我們一直在與不同的州和聯邦代表進行討論，他們確實理解我們帶來的價值。

On the other hand, there is a low that we've been seeing. But right now we do see a level of protection, federal protection. Many different countries are becoming very protective, and they are implementing material road blocks. And actually, some countries even have significant incentives for exports.

另一方面，我們已經看到了一個低點。但現在我們確實看到了一定程度的保護，即聯邦保護。許多國家都變得非常保護，並且正在實施物質障礙。事實上，有些國家甚至對出口有很大的激勵措施。

So if the domestic market is at a low point, let's pay incentives for exporters and -- for importers, rather, and so that would have certain consequences. That's what these federal incentive programs are meant to do. And we have been seeing lower levels of tax income for the government recently. So that brings to -- like brings some questions about the productivity of certain plants.

因此，如果國內市場處於低位，我們應該為出口商和進口商提供激勵措施，這樣就會產生一定的後果。這就是這些聯邦激勵計劃的目的。最近我們看到政府的稅收收入水準較低。因此，這帶來了一些關於某些工廠生產力的問題。

Now all of this is in the list of things we've been discussing with these public sector representatives. And we've seen that some of these measures that they have been implementing are important in keeping the Brazilian chemical industry competitor. Essentially, there are 2 types, 2 aspects. One is developing ways of balancing this gain. And as you mentioned, this speaks to the resumption of imports and import taxes.

現在所有這些都在我們與這些公共部門代表討論的事項清單中。我們已經看到，他們實施的一些措施對於維持巴西化學工業的競爭力非常重要。本質上，有2種類型、2個面向。一是尋找平衡這項收益的方法。正如你所提到的，這涉及恢復進口和進口稅。

So there's a reduction that was implemented that ends now in December, 11.2%, and it is now going to be returned to 12.4%. So these measures are in the boundary because they serve to balance out some of the incentives that other governments abroad have been implementing. So we in Brazil are working to counter that.

因此，截至 12 月，實施了 11.2% 的削減，現在將恢復到 12.4%。因此，這些措施是有限的，因為它們可以平衡國外其他政府一直在實施的一些激勵措施。因此，我們巴西正在努力應對這個問題。

And secondly, we looked at the gap in competitive values that Brazil has, the complexity of doing business in Brazil, so there are some structural issues that Brazil does need to work out. These things take many years to be worked out. They're not something that can be done in the short term. So we do also have short-term measures. The resumption of REIQ, for instance, to balance out or try to balance out these levels in the industry. It -- the REIQ is not enough yet.

其次，我們研究了巴西在競爭價值方面的差距以及在巴西開展業務的複雜性，因此巴西確實需要解決一些結構性問題。這些事情需要很多年才能解決。它們不是短期內可以完成的事情。所以我們也有短期措施。例如，恢復 REIQ 是為了平衡或試圖平衡行業中的這些水平。 REIQ 還不夠。

We believe that we may even need to bring that tax back to levels -- the emergency levels that they were at 2 to 3 years ago for at least a couple of years until we see the cycle recovering once again. This is all part of the discussions we've been having with the state government and federal government. And we understand that they do understand this, but these measures take some time to be implemented. So I think my answer for you is, yes, we are engaged in dialogue with the public sector, but it's going to take a while.

我們認為，我們甚至可能需要將稅收恢復到兩三年前的緊急水平，至少持續幾年，直到我們看到週期再次恢復。這是我們與州政府和聯邦政府討論的全部內容。我們知道他們確實明白這一點，但這些措施需要一些時間才能實施。所以我想我對你的回答是，是的，我們正在與公共部門進行對話，但這需要一段時間。

That was an excellent answer, and that reminds me of something else I wanted to ask you. We're strongly focused on the short term and the spreads and what they look like today and also the foreign incentives, but what about in the medium to long term? What do you think could perhaps be more structural leveraging levels for our domestic industry to ramp up its productivity once again?

這是一個很好的答案，這讓我想起了我想問你的其他事情。我們非常關注短期和利差以及它們現在的情況以及外國激勵措施，但中長期呢？您認為我們國內產業再次提高生產力的結構性槓桿水準可能是多少？

Well, Rodrigo, I think there are 2 main factors, and then there is a third factor that's a little bit more generic. The first is raw materials. We have the pre-salt layer as a major reserve of raw materials that can be used by the chemical industry. So as we move forward in exploring these pre-salt basins, it's important for us to continue discussing with the public sector how we can make it viable for that raw material to arrive at the end of the production line with the competitive volume and cost.

好吧，羅德里戈，我認為有兩個主要因素，然後還有第三個更通用的因素。首先是原料。我們有鹽下層作為可供化學工業使用的主要原料儲備。因此，當我們繼續探索這些鹽下盆地時，我們必須繼續與公共部門討論如何使原材料能夠以具有競爭力的數量和成本到達生產線的末端。

That's an important discussion with the petrochemical industries, as was done with oil and gas in the U.S., as is done in the Middle East and every other producer of hydrocarbons. At the end of the day, they do have significant potential to involve the petrochemical industry with competitive numbers, but the work needs to be done. And here, we have a bio raw material, biological raw material, which is bioethanol. So there is another significant opportunity that Brazil has. And we have, too, been discussing with the public sector.

這是與石化產業的一次重要討論，就像美國石油和天然氣產業、中東和其他所有碳氫化合物生產國所做的那樣。歸根結底，他們確實具有以有競爭力的數量參與石化行業的巨大潛力，但工作還需要完成。而在這裡，我們有一種生物原料，生物原料，它就是生物乙醇。因此，巴西還有另一個重大機會。我們也一直在與公共部門進行討論。

So the first major factor is raw material. The second major factor is gas, which for some sectors is a raw material. And I'm talking about natural gas, not methane or ethane. For us, it's energy, and competitive energy costs after raw materials comes energy. So competitive energy costs for -- and gas will allow us to grow and this is crucial for us to make our numbers more competitive.

所以第一個主要因素是原料。第二個主要因素是天然氣，對某些產業來說，天然氣是一種原料。我說的是天然氣，不是甲烷或乙烷。對我們來說，它是能源，是原料帶來能源後具有競爭力的能源成本。因此，具有競爭力的能源成本和天然氣將使我們能夠發展，這對我們使我們的數字更具競爭力至關重要。

And the third factor, I would say, is much more about the cost of doing business in Brazil. The other day, I saw an article in the paper talking about a company, I don't recall which one, saying that they have 100 employees for Brazilian tax in their Brazilian departments and only 3 people in their U.S. tax department. Now this is not exactly Braskem because we have people divided between legal and financial. But we have roughly 100 people in Brazil, that's how many people it takes.

我想說，第三個因素更與在巴西開展業務的成本有關。前幾天，我在報紙上看到一篇文章，說的是一家公司，我不記得是哪家了，說他們的巴西部門有100名巴西稅務員工，而他們的美國稅務部門只有3個人。現在這不完全是布拉斯科姆，因為我們的人員分為法律人員和財務人員。但我們在巴西大約有 100 名員工，這就是所需的人數。

And in the U.S., it's just 3. They -- in the U.S., we don't even have a legal fiscal department. In Mexico, we have 4. In Europe and -- listen, in Europe, we do business in many different countries. And each country has different tax laws that we must comply with. We have 4 people in the fiscal department for Europe. So there is a lot of bureaucracy here in Brazil, and it's very difficult to comply with all these -- all the different laws that we have here.

在美國，只有 3 個。在美國，我們甚至沒有合法的財務部門。在墨西哥，我們有 4 個。在歐洲，聽著，在歐洲，我們在許多不同的國家開展業務。每個國家都有不同的稅法，我們必須遵守。我們歐洲的財務部門有 4 名員工。因此，巴西有許多官僚機構，很難遵守所有這些——我們在這裡有不同的法律。

So this brings an additional overhead in the cost for Brazilian companies that is very, very significant. And we hope that the tax reform goes through Congress speedily so that we can see what that's going to mean. Now just -- that's just one of the aspects of the cost of doing business in Brazil, security, the quality of our infrastructure and roadways, too.

因此，這給巴西公司帶來了非常非常大的額外成本開銷。我們希望稅收改革能夠迅速在國會獲得通過，以便我們能夠了解這意味著什麼。現在，這只是在巴西開展業務的成本、安全、基礎設施和道路品質等方面之一。

Actually, there's something else, education, too, because let me give you an example. In Germany, we have far fewer people. We need fewer people to operate the plants than in Brazil because German technicians have much more education, and they can make more complex decisions. They may not even need to have more people because each employee has more independence and that is because they have been more educated. That, too, is another element of the cost of doing business in Brazil. So the first is raw materials. The second is energy, especially gas. And thirdly, this Brazil cost, the cost of doing business in Brazil.

事實上，還有其他的東西，教育，因為讓我舉個例子給你聽。在德國，我們的人口要少得多。與巴西相比，我們需要更少的人員來運作工廠，因為德國技術人員受過更多的教育，他們可以做出更複雜的決策。他們甚至可能不需要更多的人，因為每個員工都有更多的獨立性，那是因為他們受過更多的教育。這也是在巴西開展業務的成本的另一個因素。所以首先是原料。第二個是能源，特別是天然氣。第三，巴西成本，在巴西做生意的成本。

Now we completed our question-and-answer session. I will now pass the conference to Mr. Roberto Bischoff, CEO of Braskem, for his final remarks.

現在我們完成了問答環節。現在我將把會議交給 Braskem 執行長 Roberto Bischoff 先生，讓他作最後的演講。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning, everyone. I'd like to thank you all for taking part in our earnings call. And I would like to take this final opportunity to make a few remarks of my own. The first is clearly the timing, the current timing of the industry. And I'd like to reinforce our efforts, our continuous efforts to find and implement initiatives that are focused on protecting our financials. These initiatives also strive to prioritize our capital assignment.

大家，早安。我要感謝大家參加我們的財報電話會議。我想藉此最後的機會發表我自己的一些看法。第一個顯然是時機，即產業當前的時機。我想加強我們的努力，我們不斷努力尋找和實施專注於保護我們財務的措施。這些舉措也努力優先考慮我們的資本分配。

Now as we have been mentioning and also, as we mentioned in the previous quarter's earnings call, our industry is very cyclical and in a moment of a low cycle as we are seeing today, and we have been through similar low cycles in the past, this is the type of initiative we need to continue to strive for, we need to seek out more operating efficiency and reduced costs in general. And we have clearly been doing that. And this will remain in the company's focus for the present moment.

正如我們一直在提到的，也正如我們在上一季的財報電話會議中提到的，我們的行業具有很強的周期性，正處於我們今天所看到的低週期時刻，而且我們過去也經歷過類似的低週期，這是我們需要繼續努力的舉措，我們需要尋求更高的營運效率並降低整體成本。我們顯然一直在做這件事。這仍將是公司目前的關注重點。

For -- now with regard to the global industry in this quarter, we have started seeing in a few products that there is a growing trajectory in some spreads in the international market. And some foreign consulting firms have already indicated that there is a not striking, but an accident recovery nonetheless, and we hope that this will reflect in higher profitability for the industry, especially over the coming years.

對於本季的全球產業而言，我們開始在一些產品中看到國際市場上的某些價差呈現成長趨勢。一些外國顧問公司已經表示，儘管如此，復甦並不引人注目，但卻是意外的，我們希望這將反映在該行業更高的盈利能力上，特別是在未來幾年。

But it's also important to comment that within this scenario, we have been implementing initiatives to protect our financials in the short term. But at the same time, we will also be preparing the company for the coming future, striving to capture value in growth projects that are being implemented today.

但同樣重要的是，在這種情況下，我們一直在實施短期內保護我們財務狀況的措施。但同時，我們也將為公司的未來做好準備，並努力在目前正在實施的成長項目中獲取價值。

And in that sense, I would like to highlight and also comment on the green ethane -- ethylene project in Thailand, which is forecast to have a final decision in the end of 2024. There's also the ethane import terminal in Mexico that allows Braskem to reach a new level with regard to its raw material. This will also allow us to start constructing different options to expand our capacity, among others.

從這個意義上說，我想強調並評論泰國的綠色乙烷-乙烯項目，預計該項目將在 2024 年底做出最終決定。墨西哥還有乙烷進口碼頭，使 Braskem 能夠其原材料達到了一個新的水平。這也將使我們能夠開始建立不同的選擇來擴大我們的能力等。

So we have clearly been prioritizing initiatives that are compatible with the need to be resilient. The company must be resilient at low moments such as this, but without losing sight of and without failing to invest in efforts to consolidate and expand Braskem to make us more and more competitive and better prepared for the future.

因此，我們顯然一直在優先考慮與彈性需求一致的措施。公司必須在這樣的低潮時期保持韌性，但不能忽視也不能失敗於鞏固和擴大 Braskem 的努力，使我們變得越來越有競爭力，為未來做好更好的準備。

Now looking into the topic that Pedro commented on, I'd like to conclude by saying, by highlighting the importance of the chemical industry in Brazil and its structural effect on the Brazilian economy. Our industry is responsible for creating 2 million direct and indirect jobs in Brazil. These are high-quality jobs, as Pedro highlighted very, very wisely. And the Brazilian, industry according to the Brazilian Association of Chemical Industries, this result, this effect is present in many different industries and in all of our lines.

現在討論佩德羅評論的話題，我想最後強調化學工業在巴西的重要性及其對巴西經濟的結構性影響。我們的產業為巴西創造了 200 萬個直接和間接就業機會。正如佩德羅非常非常明智地強調的那樣，這些都是高品質的工作。根據巴西化學工業協會的數據，巴西工業的結果、這種影響存在於許多不同的產業和我們所有的生產線中。

The Brazilian chemical industry is going through a very peculiar moment and has been doing business at its lowest level since the past 17 years. And this is during a substantial import of foreign chemical products. We've discussed a bit about why that is and the competitive nature of some products compared to Brazil. And Brazil also has the -- a very low ability to protect its industry and to limit the entrance of foreign products in some locations. It does make efforts, but a lot still slips through their fingers.

巴西化學工業正在經歷一個非常特殊的時刻，其經營水準一直處於過去 17 年來的最低水準。而此時正是大量進口國外化工產品的時期。我們已經討論了一些原因以及某些產品與巴西相比的競爭性質。巴西保護其工業和限制外國產品進入某些地區的能力也非常低。確實付出了努力，但很多東西仍然從他們的指縫中溜走。

So that being said, I'd like to highlight the crucial importance of the REIQ to guarantee the competitive nature of Brazil's chemical industry and its percentage in line with the importance and the gravity of the current scenario with a clear objective of trying to minimize differences in cost and competitivity compared to the global industry, while ensuring the creation of jobs, the creation of income, investments for our economy. So I'd like to conclude really with that remark the importance of our current timing.

話雖這麼說，我想強調 REIQ 對於保證巴西化學工業的競爭性質及其百分比與當前情況的重要性和嚴重性相一致的至關重要性，其明確目標是盡量減少差異與全球行業相比，在成本和競爭力方面具有競爭力，同時確保為我們的經濟創造就業機會、創造收入和投資。因此，我想用這句話來總結我們當前時機的重要性。

Lastly, I'd like to thank all of you once again for the trust that you invest in us and for taking part in our call today. And we will see each other once again on Braskem Day on November 27. Thanks to all of you once again, and have a great day.

最後，我要再次感謝大家對我們的信任並參加我們今天的電話會議。我們將在 11 月 27 日的布拉斯科姆日再次相見。再次感謝大家，祝您有美好的一天。

Thank you. This concludes the Braskem video conference for today. Thank you very much for your participation. Have a great afternoon.

謝謝。今天的布拉斯科姆視訊會議到此結束。非常感謝您的參與。祝你有個愉快的下午。