AXT Inc (AXTI) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to AXT's Third Quarter 2025 Financial Conference Call. Leading the call today is Dr. Morris Young, Chief Executive Officer; and Gary Fischer, Chief Financial Officer. In addition, Tim Bettles, Vice President of Business Development, will be participating in the Q&A portion of the call. My name is Kelvin, and I will be your coordinator today.

各位下午好，歡迎參加AXT 2025年第三季財務電話會議。今天主持電話會議的是執行長 Morris Young 博士和財務長 Gary Fischer。此外，業務發展副總裁蒂姆·貝特爾斯也將參加電話會議的問答環節。我叫凱爾文，今天我將擔任你們的協調員。

I would now like to turn the call over to Leslie Green, Investor Relations for AXT. Please go ahead.

現在我將把電話交給 AXT 的投資者關係負責人 Leslie Green。請繼續。

Thank you, Kelvin, and good afternoon, everyone. Before we begin, I would like to remind you that during the course of this conference call, including comments made in response to your questions, we will provide projections or make other forward-looking statements regarding, among other things, the future financial performance of the company, market conditions and trends, emerging applications using chips or devices fabricated on our substrates, our product mix, global economic and political conditions, including trade tariffs and import and export restrictions, ability to obtain China export permits, the timing of receipt of export permits, ability to increase orders in succeeding quarters to control costs and expenses, to improve manufacturing yields and efficiencies or to utilize our manufacturing capacity. We wish to caution you that such statements deal with future events are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual events or results to differ materially.

謝謝你，凱爾文，大家下午好。在會議開始之前，我想提醒各位，在本次電話會議期間，包括對各位提問的回答中，我們將提供預測或做出其他前瞻性聲明，涉及公司未來的財務業績、市場狀況和趨勢、使用我們基板上製造的芯片或器件的新興應用、我們的產品組合、全球經濟和政治狀況（包括貿易關稅和進出口限制）、獲得中國出口許可證的能力、獲得出口許可證的時間、以及在後續季度增加訂單以控製成本和費用、提高生產良率和效率或利用我們生產能力的能力等。我們謹此提醒您，此類涉及未來事件的聲明是基於管理層當前的預期，並受到風險和不確定性的影響，這些風險和不確定性可能導致實際事件或結果與預期有重大差異。

In addition to the matters just listed, these uncertainties and risks include, but are not limited to, the financial performance of our partially owned supply chain companies and increased environmental regulations in China. In addition to the factors just mentioned or that may be mentioned in this call, we refer you to the company's periodic reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These are available online by link from our website and contain additional information on risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations.

除了上述事項外，這些不確定因素和風險還包括但不限於我們部分控股的供應鏈公司的財務業績以及中國日益嚴格的環境法規。除了剛才提到的或本次電話會議中可能提到的因素外，我們建議您參閱本公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告。這些資訊可透過我們網站上的連結在線獲取，其中包含有關風險因素的更多信息，這些風險因素可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期存在重大差異。

This conference call will be available on our website at axt.com through October 30, 2026. I also want to note that shortly following the close of market today, we issued a press release reporting financial results for the third quarter of 2025. This information is available on the Investor Relations portion of our website at axt.com.

本次電話會議的錄音將在我們的網站 axt.com 上保留至 2026 年 10 月 30 日。我還想指出，今天收盤後不久，我們發布了一份新聞稿，公佈了 2025 年第三季的財務表現。這些資訊可在我們網站 axt.com 的投資者關係部分找到。

I would now like to turn the call over to Gary Fischer for a review of our third quarter 2025 results. Gary?

現在我謹將電話交給 Gary Fischer，請他回顧我們 2025 年第三季的表現。加里？

Thank you, Leslie, and good afternoon to everyone. Revenue for the third quarter of 2025 was $28.0 million compared with $18.0 million in the second quarter of 2025 and $23.6 million in the third quarter of 2024.

謝謝你，萊斯利，大家下午好。2025 年第三季的營收為 2,800 萬美元，而 2025 年第二季為 1,800 萬美元，2024 年第三季為 2,360 萬美元。

To break down our Q3 '25 revenue for you by product category, indium phosphide was $13.1 million, primarily from data center and PON applications. Gallium arsenide was $7.5 million, germanium substrates were $640,000 and revenue from our consolidated raw material joint venture companies in Q3 was $6.7 million. In the third quarter of 2025, revenue from Asia Pacific was 87%, Europe was 12% and North America was 1%. The top 5 customers generated approximately 45.2% of total revenue and two customers were over the 10% level.

為了按產品類別細分我們 2025 年第三季的收入，磷化銦的收入為 1,310 萬美元，主要來自資料中心和 PON 應用。第三季度，砷化鎵收入為 750 萬美元，鍺基板收入為 64 萬美元，我們合併原料合資公司的收入為 670 萬美元。2025 年第三季度，亞太地區的營收佔 87%，歐洲佔 12%，北美佔 1%。前 5 名客戶貢獻了約 45.2% 的總收入，其中兩名客戶的貢獻超過了 10%。

Non-GAAP gross margin in the third quarter improved substantially to 22.4%, reflecting improved product mix and higher volume to absorb overhead. For comparison, we reported 8.2% gross margin in Q2 of 2025 and a 24.3% gross margin in Q3 of 2024 last year. For those who prefer to track results on a GAAP basis, gross margin in the third quarter was 22.3% compared with 8.0% in Q2 of 2025 and 24.0% in Q3 of last year. We continue to be highly focused on driving continued improvement, including further recovery in Q4.

第三季非GAAP毛利率大幅提高至22.4%，反映產品組合改善和銷售量增加，因此能夠吸收管理費用。作為對比，我們去年報告稱，2025 年第二季的毛利率為 8.2%，2024 年第三季的毛利率為 24.3%。對於喜歡以 GAAP 準則追蹤業績的人來說，第三季的毛利率為 22.3%，而 2025 年第二季為 8.0%，去年第三季為 24.0%。我們將繼續高度專注於推動持續改進，包括第四季度的進一步復甦。

Moving to operating expenses. Given the difficult climate, we've been working hard to hold down OpEx. In addition, we had some favorable adjustments in R&D in Q3 that brought our OpEx down to a lower-than-normal level. These will not carry over into Q4. Therefore, our total non-GAAP operating expense in Q3 was $6.7 million compared with $7.6 million in Q2 and $8.3 million in Q3 of 2024. On a GAAP basis, total OpEx in Q3 was $7.3 million compared with $8.2 million in Q2 and $9.1 million in Q3 of 2024.

接下來是營運費用。鑑於當前嚴峻的形勢，我們一直在努力控制營運成本。此外，第三季我們在研發方面進行了一些有利的調整，使我們的營運支出降至低於正常水平。這些不會延續到第四季。因此，我們第三季的非GAAP營運總支出為670萬美元，而第二季為760萬美元，2024年第三季為830萬美元。以美國通用會計準則計算，第三季營運支出總額為 730 萬美元，而第二季為 820 萬美元，2024 年第三季為 910 萬美元。

Our non-GAAP operating loss for the third quarter of 2025 improved substantially to $384,000 compared with the non-GAAP operating loss in Q2 of 2025 of $6.1 million and a non-GAAP operating loss of $2.6 million in Q3 of 2024.

2025 年第三季的非 GAAP 營業虧損大幅改善至 384,000 美元，而 2025 年第二季的非 GAAP 營業虧損為 610 萬美元，2024 年第三季的非 GAAP 營業虧損為 260 萬美元。

For reference, our GAAP operating line for the third quarter of 2025 was a loss of $1.1 million compared with an operating loss of $6.7 million in Q2 and an operating loss of $3.4 million last year in Q3. Nonoperating other income and expense and other items below the operating line for the third quarter of 2025 was a net loss of $46,000. The details can be seen in the P&L included in our press release today.

作為參考，我們 2025 年第三季的 GAAP 營業虧損為 110 萬美元，而第二季的營業虧損為 670 萬美元，去年第三季的營業虧損為 340 萬美元。2025 年第三季非經營性其他收入和支出以及經營線以下的其他項目淨虧損 46,000 美元。詳情請參閱我們今天發布的新聞稿中的損益表。

For Q3 2025, we had a non-GAAP net loss of $1.2 million or $0.03 per share compared with a non-GAAP net loss of $6.4 million or $0.15 per share in the second quarter of 2025. Non-GAAP net loss in Q3 of 2024 was $2.1 million or $0.05 per share. On a GAAP basis, net loss in Q3 was $1.9 million or $0.04 per share. By comparison, net loss was $7.0 million or $0.16 per share in the second quarter of 2025. GAAP net loss in Q3 of 2024 was $2.9 million or $0.07 per share.

2025 年第三季度，我們的非 GAAP 淨虧損為 120 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.03 美元，而 2025 年第二季度的非 GAAP 淨虧損為 640 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.15 美元。2024 年第三季非 GAAP 淨虧損為 210 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.05 美元。以美國通用會計準則計算，第三季淨虧損為 190 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.04 美元。相比之下，2025 年第二季淨虧損為 700 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.16 美元。2024 年第三季 GAAP 淨虧損為 290 萬美元，即每股虧損 0.07 美元。

The weighted average basic shares outstanding for Q3 2025 was 43.8 million shares. Cash and cash equivalents and investments decreased by $3.9 million to $31.2 million as of September 30. By comparison, at June 30, it was $35.1 million. Accounts receivable increased by $11 million, so the delta in cash is explained in working capital. Depreciation and amortization in the third quarter was $2.3 million. Total stock comp was $0.7 million.

2025 年第三季加權平均流通基本股數為 4,380 萬股。截至9月30日，現金及現金等價物和投資減少了390萬美元，至3,120萬美元。相比之下，截至 6 月 30 日，這一數字為 3,510 萬美元。應收帳款增加了 1,100 萬美元，因此現金的變動體現在營運資本中。第三季折舊和攤提費用為 230 萬美元。股票補償總額為 70 萬美元。

Net inventory was down by approximately $2.4 million in the third quarter to $77.7 million. This continues to be a focus, and we expect to bring it down further in quarters to come. This concludes the discussion of our quarterly financial results.

第三季淨庫存減少約 240 萬美元，至 7,770 萬美元。這仍將是我們的重點工作，我們預計在接下來的幾個季度將進一步降低這一比例。以上就是我們對季度財務表現的討論。

Turning to our plan to list our subsidiary, Tongmei in China on the STAR Market in Shanghai. We've continued to keep our IPO application current. Tongmei remains in process as a part of a much more selective and smaller group of prospective listings than a few years ago. Although the current geopolitical environment is dynamic, Tongmei is considered a Chinese company and continues to be regarded in China as a good IPO candidate. We will keep you informed of any updates.

接下來談談我們計劃將我們的子公司通美在中國上海科創板上市。我們一直在更新我們的IPO申請文件。與幾年前相比，通美目前仍處於篩選階段，其潛在上市項目數量也大幅減少。儘管當前的地緣政治環境瞬息萬變，但通美仍被視為一家中國公司，並在中國繼續被視為一個優秀的IPO候選企業。如有任何最新消息，我們會及時通知您。

With that, I'll now turn it over to Dr. Morris Young for a review of our business and markets. Morris?

接下來，我將把發言權交給莫里斯·楊博士，請他對我們的業務和市場進行評估。莫里斯？

Thank you, Gary. This has been a very eventful quarter for AXT as we are seeing a strong uptick in indium phosphide demand from data center applications globally and as our industry and our customers adapt a new normal within a rapidly changing environment. In Q3, our revenue grew 56% sequentially and 18% year-over-year.

謝謝你，加里。對於 AXT 而言，這是一個非常多事的季度，因為我們看到全球資料中心應用對磷化銦的需求強勁成長，同時我們的產業和客戶也在快速變化的環境中適應新的常態。第三季度，我們的營收季增 56%，年增 18%。

Within this, our indium phosphide revenue grew to our highest level since 2022 as we were successful in obtaining export permits for a number of significant indium phosphide orders throughout the quarter. I'm very proud of the diligence our team and grateful for the partnership of our customers in working through the export control permitting process.

其中，由於我們在本季度成功獲得了多筆重要磷化銦訂單的出口許可證，我們的磷化銦收入增長至 2022 年以來的最高水平。我為我們團隊的勤奮感到非常自豪，並感謝客戶在出口管制許可流程中的合作。

Our current experience is that our indium phosphide permits are taking approximately 60 business days or approximately three months to be processed by China's Ministry of Commerce. This is a bit longer than our initial expectations, but customers are adapting to the requirements and are adjusting their ordering patterns to give us more visibility and longer lead times.

根據我們目前的經驗，我們的磷化銦許可證大約需要 60 個工作天或大約三個月才能由中國商務部處理。這比我們最初的預期要長一些，但客戶正在適應這些要求，並調整他們的訂購模式，以便我們可以更清楚地了解情況並延長交貨時間。

I should also note that the Golden Week holiday at the beginning of October in China will likely increase the average permit processing time by a week or so in Q4. The tremendous growth in demand for indium phosphide-based lasers and detectors for high-speed optical connectivity, coupled with our successful obtaining export permits on behalf of our customers are driving a strong increase in our indium phosphide order backlog, which as of today is more than $49 million and growing.

我還應該指出，10 月初中國的黃金周假期可能會使第四季度的平均許可證辦理時間增加一周左右。高速光連接領域對磷化銦雷射和探測器的需求大幅增長，加上我們成功代表客戶獲得了出口許可證，推動了磷化銦訂單積壓量的強勁增長，截至目前已超過 4900 萬美元，並且還在不斷增長。

Our established customers are planning for longer lead times by placing longer-term orders and giving us more visibility into their expected demand. We are also seeing active engagement with several Tier 1 -- new Tier 1 customers to qualify our material into their supply chains for the first time in many years. This include leading optical transceiver module makers, both in China and around the globe.

我們現有的客戶正在透過下達更長期的訂單來規劃更長的交貨週期，並讓我們更清楚地了解他們的預期需求。我們還看到，我們正在與幾家一級供應商（包括一些新的一級供應商）積極合作，以使我們的材料多年來首次進入他們的供應鏈。其中包括中國及全球領先的光收發模組製造商。

As many of you know, the supply chain for optical transceiver is quite complex and highly globalized. We believe this geographic interdependence is providing both opportunities and incentives for the ecosystem to work together in new ways to solve global supply chain shortages.

正如許多人所知，光收發器的供應鏈非常複雜，而且高度全球化。我們認為，這種地理上的相互依存關係為生態系統提供了機會和動力，使其能夠以新的方式共同努力，解決全球供應鏈短缺問題。

For a geographic demand perspective, the massive AI infrastructure build-out and the planned CapEx spending by cloud services and AI platform providers in the United States is the primary driver for EML and silicon photonics-based optical transceivers. We believe that today, our materials are being used in multiple US hyperscalers, and we expect that end customers' use will continue to broaden.

從地理需求角度來看，美國大規模人工智慧基礎設施建設以及雲端服務和人工智慧平台提供商計劃的資本支出是 EML 和基於矽光子學的光收發器的主要驅動力。我們相信，目前我們的材料已被多家美國超大規模資料中心採用，我們預期終端客戶的使用範圍將持續擴大。

In China, the data center build-out is early in its ramp, but there is a strong desire for domestic suppliers at every level of the supply chain, and we believe over the next 12 to 18 months, we will see healthy growth in the China data center market. Data center expansion in China is quickly overtaking PON as the leading application in China for our indium phosphide substrates.

在中國，資料中心建設尚處於起步階段，但供應鏈各環節都對國內供應商有著強烈的需求，我們相信在未來 12 到 18 個月內，中國資料中心市場將實現健康成長。在中國，資料中心擴張正迅速超越PON，成為我們磷化銦基板在中國的主要應用領域。

Given the strong demand environment, it is important to note that AXT is well positioned to handle increased demand. We have ample manufacturing capacity in place today, and we can also significantly increase our output by current level, and we can also add capacity quickly as needed. We also have a demonstrated ability to supply very low EPD wafers in volume that meet the vigorous requirements of next-generation EML and silicon photonics-based devices.

鑑於強勁的需求環境，值得注意的是，AXT 已做好充分準備應對不斷增長的需求。我們目前擁有充足的生產能力，並且能夠在現有水準上大幅提高產量，還可以根據需要迅速增加產能。我們也展現出大規模供應極低EPD晶圓的能力，以滿足下一代EML和矽光子裝置的嚴格要求。

Now turning to gallium arsenide. Our revenue grew more than 20% from the prior quarter. The biggest driver was semi-insulating wafers for wireless RF devices, which remains a focused application for us. Industrial laser applications were about flat from Q2, and we saw an uptick in semiconductor wafers for data center laser applications. However, VCSEL lasers don't typically require a lot of gallium arsenide material, so they don't move the needle much as a growth driver. But they do require high-quality material, which we are well positioned to supply. In germanium substrates, our sales declined by about $1 million in Q3.

現在來看砷化鎵。我們的營收比上一季成長了20%以上。最大的驅動因素是用於無線射頻裝置的半絕緣晶片，這仍然是我們重點關注的應用領域。工業雷射應用與第二季基本持平，而用於資料中心雷射應用的半導體晶圓需求則上升。然而，VCSEL 雷射通常不需要大量的砷化鎵材料，因此它們作為成長驅動力並沒有帶來多大的改變。但他們確實需要高品質的材料，而我們完全有能力提供這種材料。第三季度，鍺襯底的銷售額下降了約 100 萬美元。

The germanium substrate market was very poor gross margin potential today. And while our material performed well in the solar cell applications as we supply, gross margin constraint dis-incentivize us to pursue many opportunities. In addition, certain customers prefer to source substrates outside of China. As such, we do not expect growth in germanium substrates in Q4.

目前鍺襯底市場的毛利率潛力非常差。雖然我們供應的材料在太陽能電池應用中表現良好，但毛利率的限制使我們缺乏動力去追求許多機會。此外，有些客戶喜歡從中國以外的地方採購基材。因此，我們預計第四季鍺基板不會成長。

Finally, our raw material business in Q3 was consistent with the prior quarter and it was solidly profitable within a stable pricing market. We expect the same for Q4. Globally, there continues to be a greater awareness of the importance of earth materials, and we are ahead of the curve in developing this unique integrated supply chain.

最後，我們第三季的原物料業務與上一季保持一致，並在穩定的價格市場中實現了穩健的獲利。我們預計第四季情況也一樣。在全球範圍內，人們對地球材料的重要性認識不斷提高，而我們在開發這種獨特的一體化供應鏈方面處於領先地位。

In closing, this is a highly active time for our business. The receipt of indium phosphide and gallium arsenide export permits remains the single most significant gating factor for our growth. As such, we are highly focused on ensuring that we are proactive, organized and disciplined about managing the process on behalf of our customers. We also know that we must be laser-focused on running our business with the greatest efficiency. This includes our continued effort to drive gross margin improvement, OpEx discipline and inventory reduction.

最後，目前是我們業務非常活躍的時期。取得磷化銦和砷化鎵出口許可證仍然是我們發展面臨的最重要限制因素。因此，我們高度重視確保我們能夠積極主動、有條不紊、嚴謹自律地代表客戶管理流程。我們也知道，我們必須全神貫注，以最高的效率經營我們的業務。這包括我們持續努力提高毛利率、控制營運成本和減少庫存。

With strong ongoing market trends fueling the data center upgrade cycles, we believe we have tremendous opportunity in 2026 to drive meaningful growth in our business and a return to profitability. We look forward to reporting to you on our growth, on our progress.

強勁的市場趨勢推動著資料中心升級週期，我們相信，2026 年我們將迎來巨大的機遇，實現業務的實質成長並恢復獲利。我們期待向您報告我們的發展和進展。

With that, I will turn the call back to Gary for our fourth quarter guidance. Gary?

接下來，我將把電話轉回給 Gary，請他為我們帶來第四季度業績展望。加里？

Thank you, Morris. To reiterate a couple of key points from Morris's commentary, we are seeing a strong increase in our indium phosphide wafer demand related to AI and the ongoing data center upgrade cycle. Given the geopolitical complexities surrounding this market trend, customer behaviors in our space are changing to allow for longer substrate lead times our customers are placing longer-term orders and providing greater visibility into their needs. As such, our indium phosphide backlog has grown to $49 million and is the largest we've ever had in our history. Further, we are actively engaging with new customers today that we have not had business with an opportunity for some time.

謝謝你，莫里斯。重申 Morris 評論中的幾個關鍵點，我們看到與人工智慧和正在進行的資料中心升級週期相關的磷化銦晶圓需求大幅成長。鑑於圍繞這一市場趨勢的地緣政治複雜性，我們所在領域的客戶行為正在發生變化，允許更長的基材交貨週期，我們的客戶正在下達更長期的訂單，並更清楚地了解他們的需求。因此，我們的磷化銦積壓訂單已增至 4,900 萬美元，這是我們史上最大的訂單量。此外，我們目前正在積極與一些我們已經有一段時間沒有業務往來的新客戶進行接洽。

With all of these positive market and AXT-specific growth drivers, the most significant gating factor in our growth in Q4 and beyond is the success and timing of getting export permits. Therefore, guiding for the future is somewhat tricky for us right now as we cannot predict future timing of permits or our success in obtaining them for any customer or individual order. But drawing on what we know and what we've experienced thus far in the export permitting process, we can offer the following insight into our expectations for Q4.

儘管有這麼多正面的市場因素和 AXT 特有的成長驅動因素，但第四季及以後我們成長的最大限制因素是能否成功獲得出口許可證以及何時獲得出口許可證。因此，目前對我們來說，對未來進行指導有些棘手，因為我們無法預測許可證的未來發放時間，也無法預測我們能否為任何客戶或單一訂單成功獲得許可證。但根據我們目前在出口許可流程中所了解和經歷的情況，我們可以對第四季度的預期提出以下見解。

As of today, we have approximately $20 million in revenue that can be realized in Q4 across our substrate product lines and raw materials for which we either already have a permit to ship or for which an export permit is not required because it ships within China. We have a high degree of confidence in recognizing this revenue in Q4. In addition, we believe there's an incremental $7 million to $10 million in indium phosphide and gallium arsenide backlog, which is currently in our manufacturing process for which we believe we may be able to ship in Q4 if we are awarded permits.

截至目前，我們第四季可以透過基材產品線和原材料實現約 2000 萬美元的收入，這些產品要么我們已經獲得了出貨許可證，要么因為在中國境內發貨而不需要出口許可證。我們非常有信心在第四季確認這筆收入。此外，我們認為磷化銦和砷化鎵的積壓訂單增加了 700 萬至 1000 萬美元，這些產品目前正在生產過程中，我們相信如果獲得許可，我們可能能夠在第四季度發貨。

Of course, timing of permits is not within our control, but we believe we are in a similar or slightly better position in terms of customer order backlog and permit submissions than we were at the same point in the prior quarter. As such, with that as a background, we believe we have the capability to achieve revenue in the range of $27 million to $30 million in Q4, subject to the caveats I just mentioned. This takes into consideration approximately flat sequential revenue contribution from germanium substrates and raw materials with incremental growth in Q4 likely coming from indium phosphide and gallium arsenide substrates.

當然，許可證的審批時間不在我們的控制範圍內，但我們相信，就客戶訂單積壓和許可證提交情況而言，我們目前的情況與上一季度同期相比，要么相似，要么略好一些。因此，基於上述背景，我們相信我們有能力在第四季度實現 2700 萬美元至 3000 萬美元的收入，但需注意我剛才提到的那些注意事項。這考慮到鍺基板和原料的收入貢獻基本上持平，而第四季度的增量成長可能來自磷化銦和砷化鎵基板。

As Morris mentioned, we continue to focus strongly on gross margin, we made significant gains in Q3 and continue to work on our manufacturing efficiency. Further improvement in Q4 depends on a number of factors, including total revenue as it relates to the absorption of fixed costs, revenue mix by product and our ability to continue to drive better manufacturing efficiency.

正如 Morris 所提到的，我們繼續高度重視毛利率，我們在第三季取得了顯著進展，並將繼續努力提高生產效率。第四季能否進一步改善取決於多種因素，包括與固定成本吸收相關的總收入、按產品劃分的收入組成以及我們持續提高生產效率的能力。

With regards to OpEx, we expect that it will increase to approximately $9 million as a result of some incremental end of the year adjustments and a return to a more normalized level. With these factors in mind, we believe our non-GAAP net loss will be in the range of $0.01 to $0.03, and our GAAP net loss will be in the range of $0.03 to $0.05. This represents substantial year-over-year progress towards our return to profitability. We estimate the share count for Q4 will be approximately 43.8 million shares. And okay, this concludes our prepared comments.

關於營運支出，我們預計由於年底的一些調整以及恢復到更正常的水平，營運支出將增加到約 900 萬美元。考慮到這些因素，我們預期非GAAP淨虧損將在0.01美元至0.03美元之間，GAAP淨虧損將在0.03美元至0.05美元之間。這代表著我們在恢復獲利方面取得了顯著的年比進展。我們預計第四季的股票數量約為 4,380 萬股。好了，我們準備好的發言就到此為止。

We'll be glad to answer your questions now. Operator, Kelvin?

我們現在很樂意回答您的問題。接線員，凱爾文？

(Operator Instructions) Charles Shi, Needham & Co.

（操作說明）Charles Shi，Needham & Co.

Maurice, Gary, congrats on receiving the licenses, the permits shipping $8 million additional revenue in the quarter, and congrats again on the $49 million backlog. That was an exciting number to hear. I really want to get back to this point on the customer behavior change, like are they placing longer-term orders. But I think if I hear you correctly, some of those customers may not necessarily have the permits at this point and still proceeded to place the orders with you, a pretty significant amount of orders with you. Can you kind of talk through what exactly is driving that behavior?

Maurice、Gary，恭喜你們獲得許可證，這些許可證將在本季度帶來 800 萬美元的額外收入，再次祝賀你們獲得了 4900 萬美元的積壓訂單。聽到這個數字真是令人振奮。我真的很想回到客戶行為變化這一點上來探討，例如他們是否會下更長期的訂單。但我認為，如果我理解正確的話，其中一些客戶可能目前還沒有獲得許可證，但仍然向你下了訂單，而且訂單數量相當可觀。你能具體說說是什麼原因導致了這種行為嗎？

And what do you think the export permits, currently -- the current ones you already have, are there time limits to that? Are there like the volume limits to that? And what could be your best prediction going forward from here, the customer behavior can continue to evolve?

那麼，您認為目前——也就是您已經擁有的那些——出口許可證是否有時間限制？有音量限制之類的嗎？那麼，從現在開始，你對未來消費者行為的演變做出的最佳預測是什麼？

Yes. Thank you, Charles. So we have, as you say, $49 million backlog. That includes customers that have previously received permits and customers that are still in the permit phase for the first permit as we go through. Everybody that has previously received a permit has typically received subsequent permits from there. So there's a lot of confidence in getting further permits as we move forward through this. So people are placing orders into that backlog with the understanding that the confidence levels of receiving permits are high, especially for indium phosphide.

是的。謝謝你，查爾斯。正如你所說，我們有 4900 萬美元的積壓訂單。這包括之前已獲得許可證的客戶，以及我們正在辦理首張許可證的客戶。之前獲得過許可證的人，通常都會從那裡獲得後續許可證。因此，我們對推進這項工作並獲得更多許可充滿信心。因此，人們紛紛下單，因為他們相信獲得許可的信心很高，尤其是磷化銦。

So as we look forward and as we look at that backlog, all of the orders that we've received and put into backlog have permit applications in place so far. And we manage that backlog and those permit applications, and we manage the manufacturing process so that we can combine the expected permit approval time with the finishing of the product. So our lead time to ship the product after receiving the permit is very low.

展望未來，當我們審視積壓訂單時，我們發現，目前所有已收到並列入積壓訂單的訂單都已提交了許可證申請。我們會管理積壓訂單和許可證申請，並管理生產流程，以便將預期的許可證審批時間與產品完成時間結合。因此，從收到許可證到產品出貨的周期非常短。

Yes. So maybe I can add another point. I hear Charles is asking why? Is there any relationship with customers giving us a lot more order, a longer order lead time? Is it because we have a permit process? I think that is true. People realizing instead of just in time, they want to give us a long lead time to submit the permit application so that we can ship this product to them in time. Is that a part of the question, Charles?

是的。或許我還可以補充一點。我聽到查爾斯在問為什麼？我們與客戶之間是否存在某種關係，導致訂單量大幅增加、訂單交付週期延長？是因為我們需要辦理許可證嗎？我認為確實如此。人們意識到，他們希望給我們較長的提前期來提交許可證申請，以便我們能夠及時將產品運送給他們，而不是只要求及時發貨。查爾斯，這是問題的一部分嗎？

Yes. I think maybe a better way to help us understand what the permit to the size of the orders, how much long term the orders is going to be? Maybe you can shed some light on, let's say, the order currently on average cover is it like one-year demand, two-year demand, three-year demand? What do you see there? Like how long does the order you have in the backlog covers what customers demand?

是的。我認為也許更好的方法是幫助我們理解許可證對訂單規模的影響，以及訂單的長期規模會有多大？或許您可以解釋一下，比如說，目前平均訂單量是能滿足一年的需求、兩年的需求還是三年的需求？你看到了什麼？例如，你積壓的訂單能滿足客戶多少需求？

Right. Okay. Understood. Thanks, Charles. So the permit, we apply for a permit and it can be for multiple shipments, number of shipments up to 12. This is the important part. The permit only lasts six months. So everything has to be shipped within six months of receiving the permit.

正確的。好的。明白了。謝謝你，查爾斯。所以，我們需要申請許可證，它可以用於多次運輸，最多可運輸 12 次貨物。這是最重要的部分。許可證有效期僅六個月。因此，所有貨物都必須在收到許可證後的六個月內發貨。

Yes. And the other point is this, our customers are telling us, we give you this order, if you get the permit and if you can manufacture it, you can ship it tomorrow.

是的。還有一點是，我們的客戶告訴我們，我們給你下訂單，如果你能拿到許可證，如果你能生產出來，你明天就可以出貨。

So when Tim mentioned up to 12, that means 12 line items. Every PO needs a separate permit. So if you put each line item on a separate PO, then we need 12 permits. It's complicated as they say in the show business.

所以當 Tim 提到最多 12 項時，這意味著最多 12 行項目。每個採購訂單都需要單獨的許可證。所以，如果把每個項目都放在單獨的採購訂單上，那麼我們就需要 12 張許可證。正如演藝圈常說的那樣，事情很複雜。

It is, it is. So maybe I ask another question on profitability. So when you were at this revenue level in the high 20s, going back a few years, you probably have a gross margin somewhere in the high 20s or even low 30s percent and you would have a non-GAAP EPS in the positive territory.

是，是。所以，我或許可以再問一個關於獲利能力的問題。所以，幾年前，當你的收入達到 20% 以上時，你的毛利率可能在 20% 以上，甚至 30% 左右，而你的非 GAAP 每股盈餘將為正值。

But I think, Gary, if I hear you right, I think you're still expecting some gap -- some non-GAAP loss in the coming quarter. And wonder if there's anything in your cost structure that's a little bit different now versus back then? And how do we get back to like the similar profitability level at the similar revenue run rate back in the, let's say, go back -- only go back two or three years, yes.

但我想，加里，如果我理解沒錯的話，你仍然預計下一季會出現一些缺口——一些非GAAP虧損。想知道你們的成本結構現在和以前有什麼不同嗎？那麼，我們該如何恢復到兩三年前的類似獲利水準和類似的營收成長率呢？

Yes. We expect it to be asked that question to us. So -- and this is something that we talk about internally. So as I like to say to ourselves and to analysts and investors, in our business model, it's never one single dial. It's not like one thing we can focus on, and we have to focus on two to four things to sort of move the needle in the right direction.

是的。我們預料到會被問到這個問題。所以——這是我們內部討論過的事情。所以，正如我常對我們自己、分析師和投資者說的那樣，在我們的商業模式中，從來都不是一個單一的選項。我們不能只專注於一件事，而是需要專注於兩到四件事，才能朝著正確的方向取得進展。

In this regard, one of the things we need to get improvement on is gross margin. And that's primarily a result of mix, which is going in our favor right now and also efficiencies on the line. So we have -- I'm actually encouraged to be able to say this because it's pretty much in our control. And we've done better than we're doing right now. But this is -- it is common in manufacturing businesses to have some cycles.

在這方面，我們需要改進的方面之一是毛利率。這主要是由於目前市場組合對我們有利，以及效率問題。所以——我其實很欣慰能這麼說，因為這基本上都在我們的掌控之中。我們以前做得比現在好得多。但製造業企業出現一些週期性波動是很常見的。

And so I think we can work on that and focus on it and get improvement. That's probably the biggest one. I think we could get a bit more help from our joint venture companies. I expect that to improve in the coming quarters as well. But those are the two things that come to mind.

所以我認為我們可以在這方面下功夫，並集中精力改進。那可能是最大的問題。我認為我們可以從合資公司獲得更多幫助。我預計未來幾個季度情況會有所改善。但我首先想到的就是這兩件事。

So Charles, maybe I can answer part of the other question. I think the deadliest thing in manufacture, I think analysts should ask is, is your ASP dropping, okay? I think we can say except with the low end on the 2-inch indium phosphide, most of our ASPs are holding very firm. In fact, some of the ASP for our high-end low EPD indium phosphide substrate, the ASP is increasing okay? So I think we can surely stop that worry. I mean we have some other efficiency issues such as loading factors, germanium is perhaps not making a whole lot of money for us because the pricing pressure is very strong. But the main focus on indium phosphide, the pricing is firm and the demand is high.

查爾斯，或許我可以回答另一個問題的一部分。我認為製造業中最致命的問題，也是分析師應該問的問題，是：你的平均售價是否正在下降？我認為除了 2 英寸磷化銦的低階產品外，我們的大多數 ASP 產品都保持著非常穩定的狀態。事實上，我們高端低EPD磷化銦基板的一些ASP，ASP正在增加，可以嗎？所以我覺得我們肯定可以消除這種擔憂了。我的意思是，我們還有一些其他的效率問題，像是裝載率，鍺可能並沒有為我們帶來很多利潤，因為價格壓力非常大。但主要關注點在於磷化銦，其價格堅挺，需求旺盛。

I think maybe one last question before I jump back into the queue would be the indium phosphide demand you are seeing today, how much of that is from the overseas customers that would need a permit versus domestic Chinese customers? And if I recall correctly, I remember that the indium phosphide was primarily shipped to outside of China previously. How much of the domestic development today maybe has led to a little bit more of a domestic shipment of the indium phosphide. If you can kind of paint a little bit of picture to us of how things have been evolving, that would be great.

我想在我重新排隊之前最後一個問題是，您目前看到的磷化銦需求量，有多少來自需要許可證的海外客戶，又有多少來自中國國內客戶？如果我沒記錯的話，磷化銦以前主要是出口到中國以外的國家。如今國內的發展或許帶動了磷化銦國內出貨量的略微增加。如果你能給我們簡單描述一下事情的發展歷程，那就太好了。

Well, actually, indium phosphide business is very globally connected. A lot of our substrates are shipped to, let's say, Taiwan to put EPON and ship back to United States to make a device and ship back to China to make a transceiver and then ship back to US data centers. So I think -- but our direct customer in China is roughly, I would say, 40%. But the great AI opportunity definitely is the big increase is in the AI data center in the United States.

事實上，磷化銦業務與全球連結非常緊密。我們的許多基板會被運往台灣等地，在那裡貼上 EPON 薄膜，然後再運回美國製造設備，之後再運回中國製造收發器，最後運回美國資料中心。所以我認為——但我們在中國的直接客戶大約佔40%。但人工智慧領域真正的巨大機會無疑在於美國人工智慧資料中心的大幅成長。

And I think I can add to that as well. If you look at our financials from Q2 versus Q3, you can see that the indium phosphide in Q2 was about $3.5 million, and that's increased to about $13 million in Q3. So that kind of gives you an idea of what the incremental is and all of that incremental has come from outside of China.

我覺得我也可以補充一些內容。如果你看我們第二季和第三季的財務數據，你會發現第二季的磷化銦收入約為 350 萬美元，而第三季則成長到約 1,300 萬美元。所以這大致可以讓你了解增量是什麼，而所有這些增量都來自中國以外。

Richard Shannon, Craig-Hallum.

理查德·香農，克雷格·哈勒姆。

I'll offer congrats on a wonderful quarter. Great to see. So congrats to the entire team for making that happen here. Let's start with the first question here on the indium phosphide backlog. I just want to understand the dynamics here. Maybe if you can help us understand a few things here. What was the backlog a quarter ago?

恭喜你度過了一個精彩的季度。太好了。所以，恭喜整個團隊促成了這件事。讓我們先從關於磷化銦積壓問題的第一個問題開始。我只是想了解一下這裡面的運作機制。或許你能幫我們理解以下幾點。三個月前的積壓工作量是多少？

And then how far out are customers ordering here? I would imagine, given one of the prior answers you're talking about a permit allows you to ship for six months that they're probably going out six months here, but just want to get a sense of what this looks like and how it's changed.

那麼，顧客在這裡通常會提前多久下單呢？我猜想，鑑於你之前提到的一個答案，許可證允許你發貨六個月，那麼他們在這裡可能也是在發貨六個月，但我只是想了解現在的情況以及它發生了哪些變化。

Yes. So as Morris has previously said, those permits do last six months, but most of our customers are asking to ship as soon as we can. So that backlog -- once we have a permit, we can ship that backlog as quickly as we can manufacture, to be perfectly honest.

是的。正如 Morris 之前所說，這些許可證的有效期為六個月，但我們的大多數客戶都要求我們盡快發貨。所以，一旦我們拿到許可證，我們就可以按照我們生產的速度盡快發貨，說實話，這就是積壓的訂單。

So in terms of our backlog last quarter, we've got more than double the backlog in -- as we speak today than we had last quarter. So that continues to grow. And as we said in the conference call, we're seeing more and more new opportunities coming. So that backlog is growing daily as we speak.

所以就我們上個季度的積壓訂單而言，截至目前，我們的積壓訂單數量是上個季度的兩倍以上。所以這個數字還在持續成長中。正如我們在電話會議中所說，我們看到越來越多的新機會正在出現。所以，積壓的案件每天都在增加。

Maybe I can chime in a bit. I think as CEO, I take care a lot of this China development, engineering and manufacturing and also my duty is to push the IPO process in China. But recently, I got putting more and more to talk to customers of indium phosphide because they cannot get enough material, they call my sales guys and the sales guy says, well, you got to come and visit the customers to calm them down. How are we opening up the opportunity to supply indium phosphide customers. So I got a lot this very good warm receptions from our customers and sometimes the customers' customer and also the end user. So in other words, the epi growers, the device makers as well as the CPU, GPU makers.

或許我可以插幾句。我認為身為首席執行官，我負責許多中國市場的發展、工程和製造工作，我的職責也是推動公司在中國的IPO進程。但最近，我越來越頻繁地與磷化銦的客戶交談，因為他們無法獲得足夠的材料，他們打電話給我的銷售人員，銷售人員說，你得親自去拜訪客戶，讓他們安心。我們如何為磷化銦客戶創造供應機會？因此，我收到了來自客戶、有時是客戶的客戶以及最終用戶的非常熱烈的反響。換句話說，包括表皮種植者、設備製造商以及 CPU、GPU 製造商。

In fact, I got the message from our customers, especially globally, not especially, they all told us that we are a very important supplier of indium phosphide. Secondly, they all told me there's a great, great opportunity to increase the demand in the near future. Obviously, they are all anxious to know what are we going to do to ease the pain of getting the permits to export material.

事實上，我從客戶那裡得到了這樣的訊息，尤其是全球的客戶，不分先後，他們都告訴我們，我們是磷化銦非常重要的供應商。其次，他們都告訴我，在不久的將來，需求將有很大的成長機會。顯然，他們都很想知道我們將採取什麼措施來減輕他們獲得出口材料許可證的痛苦。

And lastly, quite a few customers told us they start to appreciate the better EPD or the better quality of indium phosphide material we supply. In fact, one customer told me that now every die count and using our substrates, they can make better die yield on their lasers or detectors. So I think that's a very warming information for me and also telling us that indium phosphide, the paradigm -- there's a paradigm shift because of the global increased demand for AI connectivity in optical transceivers. And what's the other words, CPOs?

最後，不少客戶告訴我們，他們開始欣賞我們提供的更好的 EPD 或更好的磷化銦材料的品質。事實上，一位客戶告訴我，現在每一顆晶片都至關重要，而且使用我們的基板，他們可以提高雷射或偵測器的晶片良率。所以我認為這對我來說是一個非常令人振奮的消息，同時也告訴我們，磷化銦的範式發生了轉變——由於全球對光收發器中人工智慧連接的需求不斷增長，範式發生了轉變。首席採購官們，還有其他說法嗎？

CPOs.

首席採購官。

I'll start to learn that one.

我會開始學習那個。

Okay. That is helpful. I'm going to explore a couple of different angles on the dynamic here. So I think one of the things that investors will be worried about or cognizant of here is customers understanding the geopolitical dynamics, as you referenced in your prepared remarks and worried about the door shutting here at any point, very well could be ordering well above what their normal rates of consumption would be and building some level of inventory. To what degree do you see that behavior anywhere here in the backlog build? And what are the limits to your shipping faster? Are you near full utilization in your indium phosphide today?

好的。那很有幫助。我打算從幾個不同的角度探討這裡的動態。所以我認為投資者會擔心或意識到的一件事是，正如您在準備好的發言稿中提到的，客戶了解地緣政治動態，並擔心市場隨時可能關閉，很可能會訂購遠高於正常消費水平的產品，並建立一定程度的庫存。您在待辦事項建置過程中，在多大程度上看到了這種行為？你們的加急配送有什麼限制？您的磷化銦目前是否接近滿載利用？

So let me start by answering the dynamic question. I think the fact of the matter is that people are building inventory levels so that they have inventory on hand. But I don't think this is a onetime build-out because they're concerned. This is a multiyear cycle. So the demand today that we're seeing is real, and you can see evidence of that all up and down the supply chain for optical transceivers, right?

那麼，就讓我先來回答這個動態問題吧。我認為事實是，人們正在建立庫存水平，以便手頭上有庫存。但我認為這並非一次性的建設，因為他們有所顧慮。這是一個多年周期。所以，我們今天看到的需求是真實的，你可以在光收發器的整個供應鏈中看到這種需求的證據，對吧？

I want to really just look at some of the CapEx spending messaging that was given from US hyperscalers on their earnings calls yesterday, right? So everybody is talking about CapEx moving faster and growth in dollars getting noticeably larger as we go through financial year '26. So there's definitely growth going on here at the hyperscale level, and we're seeing that come into here. We're also seeing longer-term discussions on indium phosphide for CPO, both on scale up and scale across now.

我想重點關註一下美國超大規模數據中心運營商昨天在財報電話會議上透露的資本支出信息，對吧？所以大家都在談論資本支出成長速度加快，以及隨著我們進入 2026 財年，資本支出成長美元金額明顯增大。所以超大規模資料中心領域肯定正在成長，我們也看到了這種成長的趨勢。我們也看到關於磷化銦在 CPO 領域應用的長期討論，包括規模化生產和現有規模化生產。

So the demand is there. The demand is real. And of course, people are building backlog -- or sorry, people are building inventory levels, but those inventory levels will continue to grow. So we don't see this as a one-and-done shot.

所以市場需求是存在的。需求是真實存在的。當然，人們正在累積訂單積壓——或者抱歉，人們正在累積庫存，但這些庫存水準將會繼續成長。所以我們不認為這是一勞永逸的機會。

Yes. So let me add on to another point. Yesterday, Tim and I were in the valley visiting a few actually customers' customers. They are asking me what can they help in terms of financially, in terms of customer relationship to ensure that indium phosphide will be supplied. In other words, they are telling me there's a tsunami coming, okay?

是的。讓我再補充一點。昨天，我和提姆在山谷裡拜訪了幾位客戶的客戶。他們問我，在財務方面、在客戶關係方面，他們能提供什麼幫助，以確保磷化銦的供應。換句話說，他們是在告訴我海嘯要來了，懂嗎？

I just don't know how big the tsunami is because the normal rate, let's say, if it is one foot wave, then tsunami is only 10 feet. It's not that big. But if the normal wave is already 5 feet, then that's going to be very significant. So we're going to get that information soon. But I think the demand from what I hear is enormous. And don't forget, Richard, we are 40% of the indium phosphide supply chain, and we have the best quality material.

我不知道海嘯有多大，因為以正常速度，比如說，如果海浪高一英尺，那麼海嘯也只有十英尺高。它沒那麼大。但如果正常波浪高度已經達到 5 英尺，那麼這將非常顯著。所以我們很快就能獲得這些資訊。但我聽到的消息是，市場需求非常巨大。別忘了，理查德，我們佔據了磷化銦供應鏈 40% 的份額，而且我們擁有最優質的材料。

By the way, tsunami was used by the customer that Morris and Tim were visiting. We're not making it up in our conference room. So I was struck to hear that word as a description of what's on the future. So --

順便一提，莫里斯和提姆拜訪的那位顧客使用了海嘯這個詞。我們不會在會議室裡編造故事。所以，當我聽到這個詞被用來描述未來時，我感到非常震驚。所以--

Okay. Now let me ask one -- another question here looking on the other side of this dynamic here, which is you mentioned a number of engagements with customers you've not worked with ever or for a very long time here. I think, Morris, you've been talking about the very good EPD specs on indium phosphide for a few years at least. And we haven't heard you talk about new customers really much, if at all. And I know I've asked on this conference call a few times in the last few years on this topic. Why is it there all of a sudden coming to you now? It seems like it's a unique or, I guess, a coincidental timing to see a number of customers coming to you at this particular time. What's going on here and what's driving that?

好的。現在讓我問一個問題——從這個動態的另一個角度來看，您提到了一些與您從未合作過或很久以前合作過的客戶進行的互動。莫里斯，我想你至少幾年來一直在談論磷化銦非常好的EPD規格。而且我們幾乎沒聽你談過新客戶。我知道在過去幾年裡，我曾在這個電話會議上問過這個問題。為什麼它突然就出現在你面前了？似乎這是一個獨特的時機，或者說，也許只是巧合，在這個特定的時間點有很多顧客光顧。這裡發生了什麼事？是什麼原因導致這種情況發生？

Jeez, you're so smart. I mean you call me. But I tell you, I have a perfect answer to that. That is, first of all, I think with all these lasers getting bigger and bigger, the EPD is getting that much more because the larger the device, the chances of you hitting a EPD is higher. In fact, yesterday, I was told by one of the customers, how come you guys can make the EPD so low, right, Kim?

哇，你真聰明。我的意思是，你打電話給我。但我可以告訴你，我有一個完美的答案。也就是說，首先，我認為隨著所有這些雷射變得越來越大，EPD 也變得越來越大，因為設備越大，擊中 EPD 的幾率就越高。事實上，昨天有一位顧客問我，你們是怎麼把EPD降得這麼低的，對吧，Kim？

Right, right. And I think the market is maturing such as well. And the demands that our customers are being faced with, with increased demands, increased capacity, one of the customers said to us, every device is important. The yield of devices on a wafer has become so much more important today than it ever has been, both because of cost and capacity constraints within the fab. So people are turning to us because they get much higher device yields from our wafers.

對，對。我認為市場也在朝著這個方向發展成熟。我們的客戶面臨著日益增長的需求和不斷增長的產能，一位客戶告訴我們，每台設備都很重要。由於晶圓廠的成本和產能限制，晶圓上元件的良率如今變得比以往任何時候都更加重要。因此，人們轉向我們，因為他們從我們的晶圓中獲得了更高的裝置良率。

Yes. That's the customer told us straight in the face, they wouldn't tell us because we would have to ask higher price.

是的。顧客當面告訴我們的，他們不會告訴我們，因為這樣我們就得漲價。

Richard, a secondary factor subservient to what Morris and Tim just described is there is a concern among the customer base about capacity and capacity potential. They're sensing that there are shortages, and we are the best positioned currently with capacity and with the ability to respond quickly to add capacity.

Richard，除了 Morris 和 Tim 剛才所描述的情況之外，還有一個次要因素，那就是客戶群對產能和產能潛力感到擔憂。他們感覺到了短缺，而我們目前擁有最佳的產能，並且能夠迅速回應，增加產能。

Well, Gary, that was a perfect setup for my next question here, which is on a full run rate basis, hand-to-mouth basis here, what is your kind of maximum indium phosphide revenues per quarter here? And how long would it take you to get a new capacity? And what kind of CapEx commitment to grow it by, I don't know, say, 25%? How does that look like?

好的，Gary，這正好引出了我的下一個問題，那就是，在正常營運的情況下，你們每季磷化銦的最大收入是多少？你們需要多久才能獲得新的產能？那麼，要投入多少資本支出才能成長，比如說，25%？那看起來是什麼樣的呢？

Well, we could double our capacity on indium phosphide in about nine months' time. It would take us about my estimation is -- because this is not a greenfield. We got the clean room already. We got land already and all we need to do is add a few crystal balls. So my estimation is about $10 million to $15 million. But we need a signal, I'm getting it.

嗯，我們可以在大約九個月的時間內將磷化銦的產能翻倍。據我估計，這大約需要──因為這不是一片空白地帶。我們已經拿到無塵室了。我們已經有了土地，現在只需要再添置幾個水晶球就行了。所以我估計大約是1000萬美元到1500萬美元。但我們需要一個訊號，我已經收到訊號了。

So let me answer the question on current capacity there, Richard. So it's a complex question because it depends on a number of factors relating to product mix and wafer size and inventory on hand and all that kind of stuff. But we estimate that current capacity is around about $20 million a quarter for indium phosphide with our current run rate and current capacity that we've got. You asked how quickly can we increase by 25%? Probably within about three months, we can increase by 25%. We do not need to build anything other than bring some more furnaces online.

那麼，讓我來回答一下關於目前產能的問題，理查德。這是一個複雜的問題，因為它取決於許多因素，例如產品組合、晶圓尺寸、庫存情況等等。但我們估計，以我們目前的生產速度和產能，磷化銦目前的產能約為每季 2,000 萬美元。你問我們多久可以成長25%？大概三個月內，我們可以成長 25%。我們除了增加一些熔爐投入使用之外，不需要建造任何東西。

And to add for us to double that, then we need nine months. That will be (inaudible).

如果要將這個數字翻倍，那麼我們需要九個月的時間。那將是（聽不清楚）

Tim Savageaux, Northland Capital Markets.

Tim Savageaux，北地資本市場。

Again, congrats on that backlog number. Believe it or not, I still have a few questions. And I guess the overall question is, guys, is doubling capacity, is that a tsunami? Or is that just good business?

再次恭喜你們取得如此高的積壓訂單數量。信不信由你，我還有幾個問題。所以我想大家最在意的問題是，產能翻倍會不會引發海嘯？或者，這只是好的商業策略？

That's a good question, but I think I'll be happily retiring when the capacity is double with all the better gross margin. I'm joking. I think it's a lot more than that. I think -- but one step at a time, I think if we can double that, and I think we have all the ability to increase our capacity, well, the easiest way is in China. But I think beyond that, we may want to consider building something.

這是個好問題，但我認為，當產能翻倍、毛利率大幅提高時，我就會心滿意足地退休了。我是在開玩笑。我覺得遠不止如此。我認為——但要一步一步來，我認為如果我們能將產能翻一番，而且我認為我們完全有能力提高產能，那麼最簡單的方法就是在中國。但我認為除此之外，我們或許應該考慮建造一些東西。

Yes. US-based capacity would make a lot of sense. And yes, I think just intuitively, a tsunami is like 5x to 10x. And I have heard numbers like that in the industry in terms of where demand is going to be. And it sounds like the tsunami referenced in particular, is that a specific kind of looking forward scale up, scale across comments, which is to say, I assume what you're seeing in terms of current demand is likely module-driven, might be some early CPO, you tell me. But in terms of the real big step function in capacity, is that discussion mostly CPO-based or scale-up type based?

是的。在美國本土建立產能是非常合理的。是的，我憑直覺認為，海嘯的影響大概是 5 到 10 倍。我也聽業內人士說過類似的預測數據，認為未來的需求會出現在哪裡。聽起來，這裡特別提到的海嘯，是一種特定的展望未來規模擴大、跨評論的規模擴大，也就是說，我假設你看到的當前需求可能是模組驅動的，可能是一些早期的首席採購官，你告訴我。但就產能的真正大幅提升而言，這種討論主要是基於產能擴張還是規模擴張類型？

Yes, that's absolutely right. So we are seeing growth right now. That is, we believe, in the pluggable market and probably will continue to be in the pluggable market for the next few years. But we are starting to have those discussions now about growth rates for CPO for scale up. And the tsunami, the 5, 10x that you talk about, that is a lot of that is coming from CPO for scale up.

是的，完全正確。所以我們現在正處於成長期。也就是說，我們相信，我們目前處於可插拔市場，在未來幾年內可能會繼續處於可插拔市場。但我們現在開始討論CPO規模化成長的成長率問題。而你提到的海嘯，5倍、10倍的成長，很大程度上是首席產品長（CPO）為了擴大規模而採取的措施。

Yes.

是的。

Sorry Morris, you were saying something.

對不起，莫里斯，你剛才在說話。

No, I'd say yes. Yes, I like --

不，我會說是的。是的，我喜歡--

The question -- I'll add to the -- just trying to get a sense of this backlog. So you increased your backlog, you doubled it and shipped $13 million in material, which I think gives you a book-to-bill that's approaching 3, so that's not bad. But where would that kind of normally be? I guess -- and so maybe as opposed to go back to last quarter, let's go back to last year or just historically without export permits required, what kind of backlog would you normally have in terms of quarters of revenue or just straight up, where was that indium phosphide backlog Q3 '24.

問題是──我再補充一點──只是想了解積壓的工作量。所以你們增加了積壓訂單，翻了一番，並且交付了價值 1300 萬美元的材料，我認為這使你們的訂單出貨比接近 3，所以這還不錯。但通常情況下，那種地方會在哪裡呢？我想——所以，與其回顧上個季度，不如回顧去年，或者回顧歷史上無需出口許可證的情況，通常情況下，在季度收入方面，或者直接來看，2024 年第三季度的磷化銦積壓訂單情況如何。

Well, because we could be responsive to customer orders, we had a lot of turns business every quarter. So to be honest, we don't really -- in terms of me and Morris and Tim, we don't manage the company by looking at a book-to-bill. Well I have in other companies, but it's not very meaningful in this case. But -- so it's hard to say what it was because I don't have a piece of paper in front of me with that list because there's no such list.

因為我們能夠快速回應客戶訂單，所以我們每季都有大量的周轉業務。說實話，就我和莫里斯、蒂姆而言，我們並沒有透過查看訂單與帳單來管理公司。我在其他公司有過類似的經歷，但在這個案例中意義不大。但是——所以很難說那是什麼，因為我面前沒有那張紙，上面列著那份清單，因為根本沒有那份清單。

Got it. Well, it sounds like it should be some fraction, maybe half or 1/3 of whatever your indium phosphide revenue was a year ago. Your backlog is tsunami. It's up 10x, right?

知道了。嗯，聽起來應該是你一年前磷化銦收入的某個分數，可能是二分之一或三分之一。你的積壓工作量簡直像海嘯一樣。漲了10倍，對吧？

Yes. And again, tsunami was not -- I agree with you, tsunami is 5x to 10x. And I'll say again, that was not our words. That was the words from an end customer. So --

是的。而且，海嘯並非——我同意你的看法，海嘯是 5 到 10 倍。我再說一遍，那不是我們說的話。這是來自一位終端用戶的評價。所以--

Yes. Okay. Last one for me. You mentioned two 10% customers in the quarter. And Morris, you talked about kind of industry structure, epi Tier 1 back to the US. But any color on whether you've got an integrated device maker in there? Is this just really focused on epiwafer suppliers or whether you might have a new 10% customer in there?

是的。好的。這是我最後一個了。您提到本季有兩家客戶佔比達到 10%。莫里斯，你談到了行業結構，一級供應商回到了美國。但有沒有關於其中是否包含整合設備製造商的資訊？你們的目標客戶只是外延片供應商嗎？還是說你們也可能在其中新增10%的客戶？

Tim?

提姆？

Yes. We've -- so the 10% customers that we've got, we've been dealing with for a while. The new customers that we've got are integrators as well. We're dealing more and more with integrators and hardware customers.

是的。我們已經和那 10% 的客戶打交道一段時間了。我們新獲得的客戶也都是系統整合商。我們與系統整合商和硬體客戶的業務往來越來越多。

Including GPU and CPU makers.

包括GPU和CPU製造商。

Exactly right. So we're dealing with -- directly with GPU, CPU hardware makers. We're dealing with pluggable makers. So we're having -- that's where really the visibility is coming from.

完全正確。所以我們直接與GPU、CPU硬體製造商打交道。我們正在與可插拔式製造商打交道。所以，我們現在看到的──這才是真正獲得關注的原因。

Yes. I would say in the past, we haven't had access to those people. But now they're calling us. They want to see us. So that's why we had better visibility.

是的。我想說，過去我們無法接觸到這些人。但現在他們打電話給我們了。他們想見我們。所以這就是我們視野更好的原因。

Matt Bryson, Wedbush Securities.

馬特‧布萊森，韋德布希證券公司。

This is going to sound a little bit like a complaint, but it's not a complaint. Just curious, so there's clearly a whole lot of demand out there. Your Japanese competitor has announced two capacity increases in the last, I think, four months, three months. Just curious, if you have all this backlog and your customers want more product faster, why wouldn't you be building and shipping to capacity next quarter or this quarter?

這聽起來可能有點像抱怨，但這不是抱怨。只是好奇問問，看來市場的需求很大。你的日本競爭對手在過去三個月或四個月內宣布了兩次產能擴張計畫。我很好奇，如果你積壓了這麼多訂單，而你的客戶又希望更快地獲得更多產品，為什麼你不在下個季度或本季就達到產能並進行交付呢？

Well, all of our shipments, all of our ability to ship is based on permitting. So we -- as we've talked about plenty of times, we've got a large backlog now, and we can ship as -- we've been told by customers, we can ship as quickly as we possibly can. But we have to go through the permitting process.

嗯，我們所有的貨物運輸，我們所有的運輸能力，都取決於許可證的發放。所以，正如我們多次談到的那樣，我們現在積壓了很多訂單，而且根據客戶的反饋，我們可以盡快發貨。但我們必須走完審批流程。

Now that permitting process, it takes 60 business days, which is approximately three months. And there is some opaqueness to that permitting process. So if we had a bunch of permits today, I'm sure we could ship an awful lot more of that backlog today. We've guided at $27 million to $30 million. If we got permits, could we ship more than that? Yes, we could. But we're basically running trend analysis on how long it takes to get permits and a probability analysis of what permits we're going to get, and that's where the guidance comes in.

現在，審批流程需要 60 個工作天，大約是三個月。而且，該審批過程存在一些不透明之處。所以如果我們今天能拿到很多許可證，我相信我們今天就能交付更多積壓的訂單。我們給出的預期是2700萬美元至3000萬美元。如果我們獲得許可，我們能否運送更多貨物？是的，我們可以。但我們基本上是在進行趨勢分析，研究獲得許可證需要多長時間，以及我們將獲得哪些許可證的機率分析，而這正是指導意見發揮作用的地方。

By the way, we're not standing still on those orders that we are applying for permits, we are putting that into WIP. In other words, we are making it, and we're packaging it and waiting for the permits to be issued and then we can deliver right away.

順便說一下，我們並沒有停止申請許可證的那些訂單，我們正在推動這些訂單的審批工作。換句話說，我們正在生產、包裝，等待許可證發放，然後就可以立即出貨了。

Got it. Understood. So I mean, it comes down to the permits of the gating factor, but as hopefully, permit approvals continue to get across the line and lift, there's a path to achieving the levels of shipments that you were at a few years back during COVID?

知道了。明白了。所以我的意思是，這最終取決於審批流程中的限制因素，但隨著審批流程的逐步推進和限制的解除，我們有望恢復到幾年前新冠疫情期間的出貨量水準？

And then I guess, what's -- in terms of gross margins, obviously, when you're running back at close to full capacity back then, you had substantially higher gross margins. I guess what's key to getting gross margins back up? Is it predominantly utilization? Or were you benefiting back then from higher pricing? Can you just talk to kind of the dynamics around gross margins, where they can go to from here if you can get indium phosphide back up to full utilization?

然後我想，就毛利率而言，顯然，當你當時接近滿載運轉時，你的毛利率要高得多。我想問，提高毛利率的關鍵是什麼？主要是利用率嗎？或者說，你當時是否從更高的價格中獲利了？您能否談談毛利率的動態變化，如果磷化銦的利用率能夠恢復到滿載運轉，毛利率未來會如何變化？

Yes. Pricing is not really a big factor. I think the big factor is volume because it does carry more of the fixed assets in a proper way. And -- and then it's -- I'm confident we can return -- we're going to be over 30% because there's -- we can control that. So we need to improve the efficiencies on the line, but I already commented on that. So I see it going in that direction.

是的。價格並不是主要因素。我認為最大的因素是規模，因為它能更合理地承載更多的固定資產。而且——而且——我有信心我們能夠恢復——我們將超過 30%，因為——我們可以控制這一點。所以我們需要提高生產線的效率，但我已經就此發表意見了。所以我認為事情會朝著那個方向發展。

I think the most important factor is we got more -- we can utilize our indium phosphide line. I think that's the greatest opportunity we're facing now.

我認為最重要的因素是我們獲得了更多資源——我們可以充分利用我們的磷化銦生產線。我認為這是我們目前面臨的最大機會。

(Operator Instructions) there are no further questions at this time. And with that, I will turn the call back to Leslie Green for closing remarks. Please go ahead.

（操作說明）目前沒有其他問題。接下來，我將把電話轉回給萊斯利·格林，請她作總結發言。請繼續。

Thank you, everyone, for participating in our conference call. We will be participating in the Northland Virtual Conference in December and the Needham Growth Conference in January, and we hope to see many of you there. As always, feel free to reach out to any one of us if you would like to set up a call, and we look forward to speaking with you in the near future.

感謝各位參加我們的電話會議。我們將參加 12 月的北地虛擬會議和 1 月的尼德姆發展會議，希望屆時能見到你們中的許多人。和以往一樣，如果您想安排通話，請隨時聯繫我們中的任何一位，我們期待在不久的將來與您交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. We thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線了。