Ameresco Inc (AMRC) 2023 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Ameresco, Inc. Third Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.

女士們先生們，美好的一天，謝謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Ameresco, Inc. 2023 年第三季財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mrs. Leila Dillon, Senior Vice President, Marketing and Communications. Ms. Dillon, you may begin.

現在我想將會議交給東道主、行銷和傳播部高級副總裁萊拉·狄龍 (Leila Dillon) 女士。狄龍女士，您可以開始了。

Thank you, Howard, and good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for today's call. Joining me here are George Sakellaris, Ameresco's Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Doran Hole, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Mark Chiplock, Senior Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer. Before I turn the call over to George, I would like to make a brief statement regarding forward-looking remarks.

謝謝你，霍華德，大家下午好。我們感謝您參加今天的電話會議。和我一起來的還有 Ameresco 董事長、總裁兼執行長 George Sakellaris； Doran Hole，執行副總裁兼財務長；和馬克·奇普洛克（Mark Chiplock），高級副總裁兼首席會計官。在我把電話轉給喬治之前，我想先就前瞻性言論做一個簡短的聲明。

Today's earnings materials contain forward-looking statements, including statements regarding our expectations. All forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties. Please refer to today's earnings materials, the safe harbor language on Slide 2 and our SEC filings for a discussion of the major risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ from those in our forward-looking statements.

今天的收益資料包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們預期的陳述。所有前瞻性陳述均面臨風險和不確定性。請參閱今天的收益資料、投影片 2 上的安全港語言以及我們向 SEC 提交的文件，以討論可能導致我們的實際結果與前瞻性聲明中的結果不同的主要風險因素。

In addition, we use several non-GAAP measures when presenting our financial results. We have included the reconciliations to these measures in our supplemental financial information.

此外，我們在展示財務績效時使用了多項非公認會計原則衡量標準。我們已將這些措施的調節表納入我們的補充財務資訊中。

I will now turn the call over to George. George?

我現在會把電話轉給喬治。喬治？

Thank you, Leila, and good afternoon, everyone. We ended the quarter with a record total project backlog of $3.7 billion, which was up 14% sequentially and 41% versus last year. We added an impressive $700 million in new project awards during the quarter bringing our year-to-date awards of $1.7 billion, more than double last year's level. And we anticipate that our new awards will continue to grow given the 35% increase in proposal activity as compared to last year's levels. This backlog, together with our energy asset and operation & maintenance visibility gives us over $7.2 billion in total multiyear visibility of profitable revenue supporting our confidence in Ameresco's long-term growth.

謝謝你，萊拉，大家午安。本季結束時，我們的專案積壓總額達到創紀錄的 37 億美元，比上一季成長 14%，比去年成長 41%。本季我們新增了 7 億美元的新項目獎勵，令人印象深刻，使我們今年迄今的獎勵達到 17 億美元，是去年水準的兩倍多。鑑於提案活動與去年水準相比增加了 35%，我們預計我們的新獎項將繼續成長。這些積壓訂單，加上我們的能源資產以及營運和維護的可見性，為我們提供了超過 72 億美元的多年獲利收入可見性，支持了我們對 Ameresco 長期成長的信心。

We did, however, face a number of industry-wide and company-specific challenges, which impacted our third quarter results. We are very disappointed. We are pleased with the progress we made in building our long-term business momentum. We also added over 50 megawatts of assets in development in Q3 ending the quarter with almost 600 megawatts of assets in development and construction. This is a 30% increase from the 460 megawatts at the end of last year.

然而，我們確實面臨著許多全行業和公司特定的挑戰，這影響了我們第三季的業績。我們非常失望。我們對在建立長期業務動能方面取得的進展感到高興。截至本季末，我們還在第三季增加了超過 50 兆瓦的開發中資產，其中開發和建設中的資產接近 600 兆瓦。這比去年底的460兆瓦增加了30%。

While our long-term prospects have never been better, I did want to comment on some of the recent industry challenges. In our projects business, we are seeing longer cycles when converting our awarded projects into contracted backlog. These contracts are being delayed as some customers are taking longer to proceed with the actual implementation of project work. It's important to note that we have not experienced any cancellations, just a lengthening of the sales cycle in moving awards to contracts. And like others in the industry, we also continue to face supply chain delays on certain components as well as tightness in the labor market.

雖然我們的長期前景從未如此美好，但我確實想對最近的一些行業挑戰發表評論。在我們的專案業務中，我們發現將中標項目轉換為合約積壓專案時的周期更長。由於一些客戶需要更長的時間來實際實施專案工作，因此這些合約被推遲。值得注意的是，我們沒有經歷任何取消，只是將獎勵轉移到合約中的銷售週期延長了。與業內其他公司一樣，我們也繼續面臨某些零件的供應鏈延誤以及勞動力市場緊張的問題。

Our energy asset business has been challenged by both, downtime at some of our biogas plants as well as delays in the development and construction of some of our assets, especially our larger, more complicated plants such as RNG. While assets always incurred downtime, the levels we have faced over the last few quarters have been considerably greater than budgeted, driven by several factors out of our control, including adverse weather conditions and utility interruptions.

我們的能源資產業務受到一些沼氣廠停機以及一些資產開發和建造延遲的挑戰，特別是我們更大、更複雜的工廠，例如RNG。雖然資產總是會發生停機，但我們在過去幾個季度面臨的停機水平遠高於預算，這是由我們無法控制的幾個因素驅動的，包括惡劣的天氣條件和公用事業中斷。

The asset construction timetables have stretched as a result of industry-wide component and labor shortages, as well as administrative bottlenecks. Again, while these delays are frustrating, it's important to keep in mind that all of these profitable assets will be built. It's just taking longer than originally anticipated.

由於全行業零件和勞動力短缺以及行政瓶頸，資產建設時間表被拉長。同樣，雖然這些延誤令人沮喪，但重要的是要記住，所有這些有利可圖的資產都將建成。只是花費的時間比最初預期的要長。

As the company continues to grow, we are optimizing the operational structure at Ameresco to bring more uniformity and scalability across all of our geographies and business units. We are making these changes to increase our ability to react to changing market conditions more quickly and to drive increased corporate efficiency. And with our tremendous Project backlog, we have increased our focus on project execution and cash flow generation.

隨著公司的不斷發展，我們正在優化 Ameresco 的營運結構，以便在我們所有地區和業務部門之間實現更高的一致性和可擴展性。我們正在進行這些改變，以提高我們更快地應對不斷變化的市場條件的能力，並提高企業效率。憑藉大量的專案積壓，我們更加關注專案執行和現金流產生。

Further, in light of the continued industry challenges impacting conversion times and execution, we are revisiting some of our assumptions around guidance. Doran will provide more details on the numbers during his financial review. However, even with these challenges, we couldn't be more optimistic about our future. Ameresco is highly profitable, and we continue to expand substantial growth in '24 and beyond.

此外，鑑於影響轉換時間和執行的持續行業挑戰，我們正在重新審視有關指導的一些假設。多蘭將在財務審查期間提供有關這些數字的更多詳細資訊。然而，即使面臨這些挑戰，我們對未來也非常樂觀。 Ameresco 利潤豐厚，我們將在 24 年及以後繼續大幅成長。

I will now turn the call over to Doran to comment on our financial performance and outlook. Doran?

我現在將把電話轉給多蘭，以評論我們的財務表現和前景。多蘭？

Thank you, George, and good afternoon, everyone. For additional financial information, please refer to the press release and the supplemental slides that were posted to our site after the market closed today. Total second quarter revenue of $335 million was below our expectations, as project delays and asset downtime impacted revenue. Our Project revenue was particularly impacted by a lengthening in the cycle of converting awarded backlog to contracted backlog, as well as continued industry-wide supply chain issues that are extending our construction time lines.

謝謝喬治，大家下午好。有關更多財務信息，請參閱今天收市後發佈到我們網站上的新聞稿和補充幻燈片。第二季總收入為 3.35 億美元，低於我們的預期，因為工程延誤和資產停機影響了收入。我們的專案收入尤其受到將授予的積壓訂單轉換為合約積壓訂單的周期延長以及持續存在的全行業供應鏈問題的影響，這些問題延長了我們的施工時間。

Energy asset revenue grew 6%, largely due to the greater number of operating assets compared to last year, as well as higher RIN prices. These benefits helped to offset greater-than-expected downtime at our biogas facilities as well as delays in bringing some new assets online.

能源資產收入成長 6%，主要是由於營運資產數量較去年增加以及 RIN 價格上漲。這些好處有助於抵消我們沼氣設施超出預期的停機時間以及一些新資產上線的延遲。

Our O&M business delivered another consistent quarter with 4% growth, while our other line of business experienced a slight decline in revenue driven by end market softness at our off-grid solar business. Gross margin expanded to 19%, but did not meet our expectations as the downtime I just mentioned and project mix impacted our results. I want to emphasize that we have not seen any fundamental change in our overall project gross margins as the expected margin within our backlog has been quite stable for at least 2 years. We generated adjusted EBITDA of $43.3 million in the quarter.

我們的維運業務再次實現了 4% 的穩定季度成長，而我們的其他業務線則因離網太陽能業務終端市場疲軟而出現收入小幅下降。毛利率擴大到 19%，但沒有達到我們的預期，因為我剛才提到的停機時間和專案組合影響了我們的表現。我想強調的是，我們的整體專案毛利率沒有任何根本性變化，因為我們積壓訂單的預期利潤率在至少兩年內一直相當穩定。本季調整後 EBITDA 為 4,330 萬美元。

Our GAAP results for the quarter include a discrete tax benefit of $7.2 million related to a prior year Section 179D tax deduction allocated from a customer. To maximize our earnings, we'll continue to take advantage of all of the benefits available to us and our customers as part of the IRA and other favorable legislation.

我們本季的 GAAP 業績包括與客戶分配的上一年第 179D 條稅收減免相關的 720 萬美元的離散稅收優惠。為了最大限度地提高我們的收入，我們將繼續利用 IRA 和其他有利立法的一部分為我們和我們的客戶提供的所有福利。

Our long-term revenue visibility remains as strong as ever. As George mentioned, we ended the quarter with a record total project backlog of $3.7 billion. This is an impressive increase of 41% versus last year and a sequential increase of 14%, driven by winning over $700 million in new project awards during this quarter alone. Our operating energy asset visibility is approximately $2.3 billion, representing both contracted revenue as well as a conservative estimate of lifetime uncontracted R&G revenues. These metrics, together with our O&M backlog give Ameresco visibility to over $7.2 billion of future revenue.

我們的長期收入可見度一如既往地強勁。正如 George 所提到的，本季結束時，我們的專案積壓總額達到了創紀錄的 37 億美元。僅在本季度就贏得了超過 7 億美元的新項目獎項，這與去年相比增長了 41%，環比增長了 14%，令人印象深刻。我們的營運能源資產能見度約為 23 億美元，既代表合約收入，也代表生命週期未合約 R&G 收入的保守估計。這些指標與我們的維運積壓工作一起使 Ameresco 能夠了解超過 72 億美元的未來收入。

Importantly, this does not include any revenue contribution from the 596 megawatts of energy assets in development and construction. The timing of placing these assets into operation can be anywhere from under a year for small, more simple assets to 4-plus years for more complex assets such as RNG facilities. Unfortunately, this time frame has recently been increasing due to labor and equipment availability, along with permitting delays. However, we continued our high rate of conversion with approximately 90% plus of our energy assets, either success placed into service on our balance sheet or monetized through a sale to a third party.

重要的是，這不包括開發和建設中的 596 兆瓦能源資產的任何收入貢獻。這些資產投入營運的時間可以從小型、更簡單的資產不到一年到更複雜的資產（例如 RNG 設施）的 4 年以上。不幸的是，由於勞動力和設備的可用性以及允許的延誤，這一時間範圍最近有所增加。然而，我們繼續保持高轉換率，大約 90% 以上的能源資產要么成功投入到我們的資產負債表上，要么透過出售給第三方來貨幣化。

We continue to field many questions on how higher interest rates will impact Ameresco, especially as it relates to our energy asset business. Compared to many in our industry, the inherent diversity of our business model gives us the flexibility to adjust to changes in the business environment. We have the optionality to develop profitable assets and then either hold them on our balance sheet as an operating energy asset or to sell to a third party and recognize project revenue if the assets do not hit our risk-adjusted levered IRR hurdle rates.

我們繼續回答有關利率上升將如何影響 Ameresco 的許多問題，特別是與我們的能源資產業務相關的問題。與我們行業的許多公司相比，我們業務模式固有的多樣性使我們能夠靈活地適應業務環境的變化。我們可以選擇開發有利可圖的資產，然後將其作為營運能源資產保留在我們的資產負債表上，或者如果資產未達到我們的風險調整槓桿內部收益率門檻率，則將其出售給第三方並確認項目收入。

While some assets may not hit our own hurdle rates, they're well within the return profile of many energy asset buyers and aggregators ready to add assets to their portfolios. And such a sale would often come with an attached O&M contract. This strategy is not new for Ameresco as recycling our cash flow through asset sales has been part of our business model for several years.

雖然某些資產可能沒有達到我們自己的門檻利率，但它們完全符合許多準備將資產添加到其投資組合中的能源資產買家和聚合商的回報率。而且這樣的銷售通常會附帶一份 O&M 合約。對 Ameresco 來說，這項策略並不新鮮，因為透過資產出售回收現金流多年來一直是我們業務模式的一部分。

In the end, we believe that our flexible corporate model with project, O&M and asset business lines allows us to continue to benefit from the rapid growth in the deployment of clean technologies even in a high interest rate environment.

最後，我們相信，我們靈活的專案、維運和資產業務線的企業模式使我們即使在高利率環境下也能繼續受益於清潔技術部署的快速成長。

Our ability to finance our growth remains excellent. During the quarter, we secured over $0.5 billion in financing commitments bringing our year-to-date total to over $1 billion. While the clean tech industry at large has experienced credit tightening and expansion of spreads, we are particularly pleased that in our recent financing, credit spreads for Ameresco's high-quality asset portfolio continue to be stable. We have a number of attractive options for financing our growth including nonrecourse project level debt, tax equity and the recycling of capital through asset sales.

我們為成長提供融資的能力依然出色。本季度，我們獲得了超過 5 億美元的融資承諾，使年初至今的融資總額超過 10 億美元。雖然整個清潔技術行業經歷了信貸緊縮和利差擴大，但我們特別高興的是，在我們最近的融資中，Ameresco 優質資產組合的信貸利差繼續保持穩定。我們有許多有吸引力的選擇來為我們的成長提供融資，包括無追索權項目級債務、稅收股權和透過資產出售進行資本循環。

We are adjusting our 2023 guidance in response to the items which we described earlier. We now anticipate full year 2023 revenue, adjusted EBITDA and EPS to be approximately $1.35 billion, $165 million and $1.20 at the midpoints as detailed in our press release. We now expect to place between 120 and 130 megawatts of energy assets in service for all of 2023, including the recently acquired Los Alamitos microgrid project and our second 5-megawatt RNG plant. A third RNG plant is expected to be at mechanical completion by the end of the year and fully commissioned in early 2024.

我們正在調整 2023 年指導，以回應我們之前描述的項目。我們現在預計 2023 年全年收入、調整後 EBITDA 和 EPS 分別約為 13.5 億美元、1.65 億美元和 1.20 美元（按我們的新聞稿中的中點計算）。我們現在預計 2023 年全年將有 120 至 130 兆瓦的能源資產投入使用，包括最近收購的洛斯阿拉米托斯微電網專案和我們的第二個 5 兆瓦 RNG 工廠。第三座 RNG 工廠預計將於今年底機械完工，並於 2024 年初全面投入使用。

And while we will be providing detailed full year 2024 guidance when we report our fourth quarter and full year results, we want to take this opportunity to comment on our 2024 adjusted EBITDA target of $300 million, which we originally provided in early 2022. Given the lengthening in the sales and construction cycles in our project and energy asset businesses, we now expect the 2024 adjusted EBITDA could be approximately $250 million.

雖然我們將在報告第四季度和全年業績時提供詳細的 2024 年全年指引，但我們希望藉此機會評論我們最初於 2022 年初提出的 2024 年調整後 EBITDA 目標 3 億美元。由於我們的項目和能源資產業務的銷售和建設週期延長，我們現在預計2024 年調整後的EBITDA 可能約為2.5 億美元。

I want to make it clear that none of this adjusted EBITDA opportunity has been lost. It is just being delayed. And this new adjusted EBITDA level still represents impressive growth compared to our expected 2023 results and still fits in the framework of our long-term 20% plus adjusted EBITDA growth target. Operating leverage remains top of mind as we remain diligent on OpEx further bolstered by our internal optimizations.

我想澄清的是，調整後的 EBITDA 機會並沒有失去。它只是被推遲了。與我們預期的 2023 年業績相比，這一新的調整後 EBITDA 水準仍然代表著令人印象深刻的成長，並且仍然符合我們 20% 以上的調整後 EBITDA 長期成長目標的框架。營運槓桿仍然是首要考慮因素，因為我們在內部優化的進一步支持下，仍然致力於營運支出。

Now I'd like to turn the call back over to George for closing comments.

現在我想將電話轉回給喬治以徵求結束意見。

Thank you, Doran. As we have discussed in detail during this call, while we continue to face some headwinds, our long-term growth opportunities have never been better. The company is redoubling its focus on profitable execution and cash flow generation. And we look forward to detail in our success in future quarters.

謝謝你，多蘭。正如我們在本次電話會議中詳細討論的那樣，雖然我們繼續面臨一些阻力，但我們的長期成長機會從未如此好。該公司正在加倍關注盈利執行和現金流生成。我們期待在未來幾季取得成功的細節。

In closing, I would like to once again thank our employees, customers and stockholders for their continued support.

最後，我要再次感謝我們的員工、客戶和股東的持續支持。

Operator, we would like to open the call to questions now.

接線員，我們現在開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question or comment comes from the line of Noah Kaye from Oppenheimer & Co.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題或評論來自 Oppenheimer & Co. 的 Noah Kaye。

I was wondering if I could start off -- just trying to get a sense of the bridge between the prior and revised guidance when we look at the -- essentially the $50 million difference in EBITDA. Can you kind of walk us through -- what were the main components as quantitatively as you can? Obviously, you commented to both projects and energy assets. But if you could help us get a sense of the bridge, that would be really helpful.

我想知道我是否可以開始 - 只是試圖在我們查看 EBITDA 上 5000 萬美元的差異時了解之前和修訂後的指導之間的橋樑。您能否盡可能定量地向我們介紹一下主要成分是什麼？顯然，您對專案和能源資產都發表了評論。但如果你能幫助我們了解這座橋，那就真的很有幫助了。

Sorry, to clarify, no, you're talking about 2024?

抱歉，澄清一下，不，你說的是 2024 年？

No, 2023, actually. Thanks for clarifying.

不，實際上是 2023 年。感謝您的澄清。

So just -- first and foremost, I think the point is that the ramp in 2023 really relied on some solid execution and conversions of awards to contracts happening in Q3. That didn't materialize the way we expected it to. And so as a result of that, we've kind of adjusted this guidance to push things to the right as you might expect and as you've probably seen us do before.

因此，首先也是最重要的一點是，我認為 2023 年的成長實際上依賴於第三季發生的一些紮實的執行和合約的授予轉換。這並沒有像我們預期的那樣實現。因此，我們對這項指導進行了某種程度的調整，以將事情推向正確的方向，正如您可能期望的那樣，並且正如您之前可能看到我們所做的那樣。

So through Q2, we're executing on our contracted backlog as you saw higher-than-expected revenue performance. But then we also had a relatively high amount of second half '23 guidance there in the awarded and contracted backlog. And I think with the conversions being delayed several large projects, I think that was one of the things that just kind of resulted in the push out. I don't know that we want to go into any more detail beyond that?

因此，在第二季度，我們正在執行合約積壓的訂單，因為您看到了高於預期的收入表現。但隨後我們在已授予和已簽約的積壓訂單中也獲得了相對較高數量的 23 年下半年指導。我認為，由於幾個大型專案的轉換被推遲，我認為這是導致推出的原因之一。我不知道我們還想了解更多細節嗎？

Well, the operation of the assets contributed to that as well.

嗯，資產的運作也對此做出了貢獻。

Yes, asset operation.

是的，資產運作。

Yes.

是的。

Right, right, right. So not possible to sort of say whether it was going to half and half projects and assets that you're not going to be able to provide that detail. I guess that confirms. Okay. Understood. Understood. You mentioned earlier, one of the benefits of the model is the ability to be complexible around capital. Can you talk a little bit about your plans for capital recycling here and how you're thinking about leverage and financing? You mentioned securing a good amount of capital already this quarter. But just wanted to understand how you're thinking about capital recycling levels? And how soon that might occur?

對，對，對。因此，無法確定您無法提供詳細資訊的項目和資產是否會一半。我想這證實了。好的。明白了。明白了。您之前提到，該模型的好處之一是能夠圍繞資本實現複雜化。您能在這裡談談您的資本回收計劃以及您如何考慮槓桿和融資嗎？您提到本季已經獲得了大量資金。但只是想了解您如何看待資本回收水平？這可能多久會發生？

So look, I think that was really designed as a reminder that this is part of the business model that we will look to sell assets. I think as I talked about last quarter, with higher interest rates, we're starting to see a little bit of challenge in the levered IRR targets that we have. And as you know, some of these assets take a while to sort of make their way through the asset and development metric into something that's in operation.

所以看，我認為這實際上是為了提醒人們，這是我們將尋求出售資產的商業模式的一部分。我認為，正如我在上個季度談到的那樣，隨著利率上升，我們開始看到我們的槓桿內部報酬率目標面臨一些挑戰。如您所知，其中一些資產需要一段時間才能透過資產和開發指標進入運作狀態。

So we experienced some pressure on the interest rate. What we found is that the market still exists for those assets as return hurdles that are lower than ours. And we will regularly work on kind of turning around and entering into sales agreements with those assets preconstruction. So while they're still in development, such that it effectively converts it into project business for us as opposed to looking at it as a distinct kind of business line. I would say it's fair to say it's going to be consistently kind of dynamic if that's a good oxymoron on for you as we go forward.

所以我們經歷了一些利率壓力。我們發現，這些資產的市場仍然存在，其回報障礙低於我們的回報障礙。我們將定期致力於扭轉局面並與這些預建資產簽訂銷售協議。因此，儘管它們仍處於開發階段，但它可以有效地將其轉化為我們的專案業務，而不是將其視為獨特的業務線。我想說的是，公平地說，如果在我們前進的過程中這對你來說是一個很好的矛盾的話，那麼它將始終保持活力。

Sure. Maybe one last question. Sorry, go ahead, George.

當然。也許還有最後一個問題。抱歉，請繼續，喬治。

No, that's still -- we have so many projects in development -- assets and development. So it gives an opportunity to monetize the assets and development. And still maintain our target of the ones we hold -- about at least 20% growth per year in the ones we hold. And this interest rate environment, I think it's a good opportunity to recycle some of that cash. And that's why my comment too, the project business -- the backlog is growing so big, so large, we will refocus to generate -- to build the projects out as we go down the road to generate more cash internally rather than looking at it from the outside.

不，那仍然是——我們有很多項目正在開發——資產和開發。因此，它提供了將資產和開發貨幣化的機會。仍然維持我們持有的目標——我們持有的股票每年至少成長 20%。在這種利率環境下，我認為這是回收部分現金的好機會。這也是我的評論的原因，項目業務——積壓的訂單變得如此之大，如此之大，我們將重新專注於生成——在我們沿著內部生成更多現金的道路上建設項目，而不是看著它從外部。

Yes. I mean it allows us to maintain that growth rate we're expecting and hold on to our mid-teens IRR target. And at the same time, stay in front of our customers, right? We're continuing to find the right financing on a non-recourse basis for the assets that we want to keep. And if the returns aren't there, we -- at least we're staying in the market, we're staying in front of our customers. We're still developing a good amount of assets.

是的。我的意思是，它使我們能夠保持預期的成長率，並保持我們的 IRR 目標。同時，保持在客戶面前，對嗎？我們將繼續在無追索權的基礎上為我們想要保留的資產尋找合適的融資。如果沒有回報，我們——至少我們會留在市場上，我們會站在客戶面前。我們仍在開發大量資產。

And that's the way we don't overstress our balance sheet.

這就是我們不會給資產負債表帶來過大壓力的方法。

I know you -- I have a lot of other questions, but I'll take them offline. You got a lot of analysts to get to.

我了解你——我還有很多其他問題，但我會把它們離線。你有很多分析師需要接觸。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Stephen Gengaro from Stifel.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 Stifel 的 Stephen Gengaro。

So I guess my big picture question is, when we think about the quarter and obviously, you've laid out the challenges you've seen and you kind of gave this preliminary look into 2024. When we think about your handle on the issues and what kind of gives you confidence that you start to get kind of additional momentum traction to '24, which makes those targets realistic?

所以我想我的大局問題是，當我們考慮本季時，顯然，您已經列出了您所看到的挑戰，並對 2024 年進行了初步展望。當我們考慮您對問題的處理時，是是什麼讓您有信心在24 世紀開始獲得額外的動力牽引，從而使這些目標變得現實？

Well, we took into consideration what happened to us for this particular quarter. And basically, we extrapolate and we assume that these conditions will continue for the foreseeable future. And between all of us, that's one of the mistakes that we had made. I think we let our guard down a little bit. By overperforming the first 2 quarters, even though we start realizing that a couple of the awards were not moving to the contracts as first that we had contemplated. And -- but then it became -- across many, many projects, not just the ones that we can see. And then the other thing that surprised us a lot is the extension of the implementation schedules. We got stuck in quite a few of the projects in executing because we couldn't get some materials. On a couple of them, we couldn't get the right labor in a timely fashion. And when I said the administrative challenges that we face, you won't believe it's some of the permitting. It used to take a couple of weeks. It takes more than 3, 4 months because nobody shows up to review the applications.

好吧，我們考慮了這個特定季度發生的事情。基本上，我們推斷並假設這些情況將在可預見的未來持續下去。對我們所有人來說，這是我們所犯的錯誤之一。我認為我們放鬆了警戒。透過前兩季的出色表現，儘管我們開始意識到一些獎項並沒有像我們最初設想的那樣轉入合約。而且 - 但後來它變成了 - 跨越很多很多項目，而不僅僅是我們可以看到的項目。另一件讓我們非常驚訝的事情是實施時間表的延長。我們在執行過程中陷入了相當多的項目，因為我們無法獲得一些材料。其中有幾個我們無法及時找到合適的勞動力。當我談到我們面臨的行政挑戰時，你不會相信這是一些許可的。過去需要幾週的時間。由於沒有人來審核申請，所以需要超過 3、4 個月的時間。

So -- and we feel very good that's why the project business and the project backlog now because it's going -- it's getting to a point that we feel that we can execute on 2024 and especially on the level that we afford our customer at this point in time. And that's why I think -- and we will give more detail when we talk about the '24 numbers after the end of the year, and give a little bit more color and details to it. But right now, we feel pretty good where we are that we have taken into account what's happening in the marketplace.

因此，我們感覺非常好，這就是為什麼現在專案業務和專案積壓的原因，因為它正在發展，我們認為我們可以在 2024 年執行，特別是在我們目前為客戶提供的水平上及時。這就是為什麼我認為——當我們在年底後談論 24 個數字時，我們將提供更多細節，並為其提供更多的色彩和細節。但現在，我們感覺很好，因為我們已經考慮到了市場上正在發生的事情。

And I thought it sounds like this, but -- so you feel like those expectations are accounting for things that kind of you can control versus what you kind of can't control going into next year. Is that a reasonable way to think about it?

我認為這聽起來像這樣，但是 - 所以你覺得這些期望正在考慮明年你可以控制的事情和你無法控制的事情。這是一個合理的思考方式嗎？

That is correct, yes. And that's why my comment, I said we feel very, very good about the future where we are in the trend of the business. It's very good. It just, is taking a little bit longer to execute that what we -- we've been in this business for a long time, and we had the metrics we thought that on pack. And to be honest with you guys, I thought that this supply chain issue will be done by now. But what is happening, I think, and that's why we get stuck on the electrical side, especially on the equipment with obviously -- everything going to be electric, it as bottlenecks of not only the capability of the various manufacturers and built in transformers or control panels and so on. And then the beauty, none of our projects have been lost. They're all there, and we're just moving at a little bit slower pace.

這是正確的，是的。這就是為什麼我的評論，我說我們對我們所處的業務趨勢的未來感到非常非常好。這很好。只是，執行我們的工作需要更長的時間，我們在這個行業已經工作了很長時間，我們有我們認為的指標。老實說，我認為這個供應鏈問題現在已經解決了。但我認為正在發生的事情，這就是為什麼我們在電氣方面陷入困境，特別是在顯然所有東西都將是電氣的設備上，它不僅是各個製造商和內置變壓器的能力的瓶頸，控制面板等。更美妙的是，我們的專案都沒有遺失。他們都在那裡，我們只是前​​進的速度慢了一點。

And Steve, this is the importance of controlling OpEx here because we're focusing on earnings generation, we're going to control OpEx and continue to generate the EBITDA that we expect to generate. And frankly, we're still working to execute contracts with our vendors and our suppliers prior to executing our customer contract to derisk margin. We're still working toward that. It's just that we've had a few of these adjustments come with some of the projects that have been in the backlog for a bit with the kind of lengthening of the cycle.

史蒂夫，這就是控制營運支出的重要性，因為我們專注於獲利，我們將控制營運支出並繼續產生我們期望產生的 EBITDA。坦白說，在執行客戶合約之前，我們仍在努力與我們的供應商和供應商執行合同，以降低利潤風險。我們仍在為此努力。只是我們對一些項目進行了一些調整，這些項目由於週期的延長而積壓了一段時間。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Eric Stine from Craig Hallum.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 Craig Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

So I just want to dig in here a little bit more, just to try to understand the I mean I know supply chain issues in labor, it's been a pretty consistent challenge. I mean, is this something where you saw that intensify? Or is it where you just had a number of larger projects, things you are counting on contributing to the back half of the year that it was just a greater impact from those headwinds?

所以我只是想在這裡多深入一點，只是為了嘗試理解我的意思是我知道勞動力的供應鏈問題，這是一個相當一致的挑戰。我的意思是，你看到這種情況加劇了嗎？還是您剛剛進行了一些較大的項目，您指望為下半年做出貢獻，而這只是這些逆風帶來的更大影響？

Great question. Especially -- that's exactly what happened, especially some of the larger projects. They were already scheduled and you say this bio contract, so now it's going to do XYZ, and all of a sudden that contract wasn't there or this is the key. We couldn't get the qualified workers to show up at the work site -- at the site. And some of them we used to go out with an RF to 12 to 16 vendors and sometimes we'll get 1 or 2 responses. And you will find out that one of them is not even qualified. So it's -- labor has become a huge concern.

很好的問題。特別是——這正是發生的事情，尤其是一些較大的項目。他們已經安排好了，你說這個生物合同，所以現在要做 XYZ，突然間那個合同不存在了，或者這是關鍵。我們無法讓合格的工人出現在工作現場—現場。其中一些我們曾經向 12 到 16 家供應商發出 RF，有時我們會得到 1 或 2 個回應。而你會發現，其中有一個連資格都沒有。所以，勞動力已經成為一個巨大的問題。

Got it. And then, I mean, you've had great growth in your project business. I mean the -- you mentioned permitting and that sort of thing. But I mean is this the area of business where you can safely say, interest rate -- higher interest rates that, that is having a tangible impact -- negative impact?

知道了。然後，我的意思是，您的專案業務取得了巨大的成長。我的意思是──你提到了許可之類的事情。但我的意思是，在這個業務領域，你可以放心地說，利率——更高的利率，會產生實際的影響——負面影響？

Not really. No, no. We haven't really seen that on the project business.

並不真地。不，不。我們在專案業務中還沒有真正看到這一點。

Okay. And then...

好的。進而...

I think -- yes, go ahead.

我想——是的，繼續吧。

No, I was just going to say, so the $250 million that you're talking about for the early look at 2024, just to confirm, you're not really expecting necessarily improvement in these areas, right? You're kind of expecting status quo from where things stand now, playing that out through 2024 rather than anticipating that there's improvement in a lot of these areas.

不，我只是想說，所以您所說的 2.5 億美元用於 2024 年的早期展望，只是為了確認，您並不真正期望這些領域一定會有所改善，對嗎？你有點期待從現在的情況來看，到 2024 年都會維持現狀，而不是期望這些領域會有改善。

That's what we did. And Mark, there's a great due diligence on that. You can make a comment. But that's exactly what we try to do and we think we have represented very accurately.

這就是我們所做的。馬克，對此進行了很好的盡職調查。您可以發表評論。但這正是我們試圖要做的，我們認為我們已經非常準確地表達了。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Tim Mulrooney from William Blair & Company.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 William Blair & Company 的 Tim Mulrooney。

My question is on your 2023 guide. The midpoint of your guide is suggesting, I think, still a nice ramp up in fourth quarter revenue, up more than 20% sequentially, I think, from the third quarter at the midpoint. Can you just talk about the primary factors contributing to that acceleration? Is it collection of unbilled revenue at SCE or other things?

我的問題是關於你們的 2023 年指南。我認為，你的指南的中點表明，第四季的收入仍然有不錯的成長，比第三季的中點連續成長了 20% 以上。您能談談促成這種加速的主要因素嗎？是在 SCE 收取未開票收入還是其他費用？

Yes. Tim, this is Mark. It's mostly -- it's contracted. I mean it's assuming good execution on our contracted backlog. It assumes very little awarded revenue. And we took a look at that, and we have to take into consideration the slippage that we're seeing. But with the active projects that we currently are working on, we feel like the contracted revenue is a number that we can deliver on in Q4.

是的。提姆，這是馬克。主要是——它是收縮的。我的意思是，假設我們的合約積壓工作執行得很好。它假設授予的收入很少。我們對此進行了研究，我們必須考慮到我們所看到的滑點。但就我們目前正在進行的活躍項目而言，我們認為合約收入是我們可以在第四季度實現的數字。

Okay. My follow-up, I just wanted to ask about the administrative bottlenecks that you listed as being a factor impacting third quarter results. Can you just talk in a little more detail about what those were? If they were specific to 1 or 2 projects or if it's a broader issue that you expect will carry into the fourth quarter and beyond?

好的。我的後續行動，我只是想問一下您列出的影響第三季業績的因素的管理瓶頸。您能更詳細地談談那些是什麼嗎？它們是否特定於 1 或 2 個項目，或者這是您預計將持續到第四季度及以後的更廣泛的問題？

Well, I know a couple of the assets that were delayed because whether it's a solar plants that they were not connected because of the utility. We didn't get out there to connect the project or some of the renewable. The gas plants that we were built in, we got delayed because I think it was 3 months before somebody when they are to review the applications. So that delayed that particular project for about 3 months.

嗯，我知道一些被推遲的資產，因為無論是太陽能發電廠，還是因為公用事業而沒有連接。我們沒有出去連接該項目或一些可再生能源。我們建造的天然氣工廠被推遲了，因為我認為人們比他們審查申請早了三個月。因此，該特定項目延遲了大約 3 個月。

Yes. and I think the administrative delays really that are impacting the timing of awards converting to contract. It's something that we really started to see a little bit towards the end of Q2 with some awards that we expected to convert. We really felt the impact in Q3. And so to your question, yes, we do expect that to continue in through Q4 and as these are all really just kind of pushing out to the right. So -- but we've taken that into account in our revised guidance.

是的。我認為行政延誤確實影響了合約轉化為合約的時間。這是我們在第二季末真正開始看到的一些事情，我們預計會轉換一些獎項。我們在第三季確實感受到了影響。因此，對於你的問題，是的，我們確實預計這種情況將持續到第四季度，因為這些實際上只是向右推。所以 - 但我們已經在修訂後的指南中考慮到了這一點。

Say what happened, the fact is that everybody has it turned back to work, it does impact in the implementation of our work, and I think many other people.

說一下發生了什麼，事實是每個人都已經恢復工作了，這確實影響了我們工作的實施，我想還有很多其他人。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Joseph Osha from Guggenheim.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自古根漢的約瑟夫·奧沙（Joseph Osha）。

I figure we might shift gears a little bit here. When I look at where we stand in the current quarter and then your deck you point out that a lot of business is nonrecourse. But if you annualize Q3, we're now standing at about 8.3 debt-to-EBITDA. And on your new guide, it's about 8x likely debt-to-EBITDA for 2024. The business hasn't generated even wrapping in hasn't generated any free cash flow since 2020 and it's generated $80 million since the beginning of 2019. So I guess I'm just asking, we can talk about the growth in the energy assets business here. But at what point does this business begin to generate cash? And how are you thinking about that as we go into 2024?

我想我們可以在這裡稍微改變一下。當我查看我們當前季度的情況以及您的套牌時，您會指出很多業務都是無追索權的。但如果將第三季年化，我們現在的債務與 EBITDA 比率約為 8.3。根據你的新指南，2024 年債務與EBITDA 的可能性約為8 倍。該業務自2020 年以來甚至沒有產生任何自由現金流，甚至還沒有產生任何自由現金流，自2019 年初以來已產生8000 萬美元。所以我想我只是問，我們可以在這裡討論能源資產業務的成長。但這項業務什麼時候開始產生現金呢？當我們進入 2024 年時，您對此有何看法？

Okay. Joe, the first thing I'd point out is that the adjusted cash from operations was positive, right? As we've talked about, we have the discretion to work on the cadence of asset investment as necessary if we need to effectively match up with our operating cash flow. Understand that the higher leverage numbers that you're talking about, you pointed out yourself, that EBITDA multiples is not a metric that's used when determining advance rates under nonrecourse debt. I think we can all kind of agree on that point. And therefore, those figures will end up looking higher than what you would think about from normal corporate credit facility.

好的。喬，我首先要指出的是，調整後的營運現金是正值，對嗎？正如我們所討論的，如果我們需要有效地匹配我們的營運現金流，我們可以根據需要酌情調整資產投資的節奏。您自己指出，您所談論的較高槓桿率數字並不是在確定無追索權債務下的預付款率時使用的 EBITDA 倍數。我想我們在這一點上都可以達成一致。因此，這些數字最終看起來會高於你對正常企業信用額度的想像。

As far as cash flow is concerned, I think that, that is something, and we've discussed this, we are going to be looking at how we can start to talk about the company's history of generating cash and what that looks like versus how much is being invested into assets. However, broadly speaking, the only other thing I would say about the leverage overall is that it does remain a bit inflated on the basis of the delayed kind of so-called projects and wrapping those up, getting that cash in. We've actually used quite a bit of our own operating cash flow to pay down the debt -- the corporate debt. And so we've got quite a bit of unbilled there that you'll see kind of turnaround, call it, Q1-ish to kind of show the cash coming out of the SCE project, so that will help us in terms of delevering the corporate facility. At this stage, I don't know how much more I can say to address your question.

就現金流而言，我認為這很重要，我們已經討論過這一點，我們將研究如何開始談論公司產生現金的歷史以及它的情況與如何大量資金被投資於資產。然而，從廣義上講，關於整體槓桿率，我要說的唯一另一件事是，由於所謂的項目延遲並完成這些項目，獲得現金，槓桿率確實仍然有點膨脹。實際上，我們已經我們使用了相當多的營運現金流來償還債務——公司債務。因此，我們有相當多的未開票項目，你會看到某種轉變，稱之為第一季度左右，以顯示 SCE 項目的現金，這將有助於我們去槓桿化公司設施。在這個階段，我不知道還能說多少話來回答你的問題。

Sure. And I guess, kind of the -- just the follow-on, it's the second part of the same question. And look, this debate has been going on a lot and some companies that are kind of comparable to you like some of these residential solar businesses. It is a question of how you balance growth and cash flow generation. So I guess I'll just ask you or George or whoever, is there a point when it's a $2 billion company or a $3 billion company or whatever you say, okay, we're going to maybe take a slightly different view of how we think about growth versus generating cash flow and maybe ultimately return of capital to shareholders. I'm just trying to get a sense as to the philosophy here that underpins how you're making the decision.

當然。我想，這只是後續部分，這是同一個問題的第二部分。你看，這場爭論已經持續了很多次，一些與你類似的公司，例如一些住宅太陽能企業。這是如何平衡成長和現金流產生的問題。所以我想我會問你或喬治或任何人，當它是一家價值20 億美元的公司或一家價值30 億美元的公司或無論你說什麼時，是否有一個點，好吧，我們可能會對我們的方式採取稍微不同的看法。考慮成長與產生現金流以及最終向股東返還資本。我只是想了解支撐你如何做出決定的哲學。

Well, that's why the philosophy, especially in this higher interest environment. That's why we want to monetize a good part of the assets we develop and then focus more in the project business, which generates very good cash flow and basically rather than issuing new stock, to finance potential assets we own, it comes all from internally generated cash flow. And in addition to that, I think the guideline that we will be using going forward that even that we will not invest all of that asset -- all that cash flow generated from projects and existing assets and O&M, we will retain some of it to delever the company.

嗯，這就是哲學的原因，特別是在這個更高利益的環境中。這就是為什麼我們希望將我們開發的大部分資產貨幣化，然後更專注於專案業務，這會產生非常好的現金流，基本上不是發行新股，而是為我們擁有的潛在資產提供資金，這一切都來自內部產生現金週轉。除此之外，我認為我們未來將使用的指導方針是，即使我們不會投資所有資產——專案、現有資產和營運和維護產生的所有現金流，我們也會保留其中的一部分以用於去槓桿化公司。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Julien Dumoulin-Smith from Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自美國銀行的 Julien Dumoulin-Smith。

Just following up on a couple of things here. First off, how do you think about the time line for these projects to get "back on track?" Obviously, bringing down '23 and '24 by roughly 50%. I mean, is there a catch-up here in '25? Or are you thinking that categorically, we're rolling the ball forward across the forward look here when do we get kind of that view on '25? And then as you think about kind of catching back up here, is there an element of higher OpEx that needs to play into this to get things back on track? Or where -- is there any other risk on the SG&A? And then maybe also just to clean up on that last one on payments and cash. Do you want to clarify a little bit more about payments on the batteries here and the time line there.

只是在這裡跟進幾件事。首先，您如何看待這些項目「重回正軌」的時間表？顯然，'23 和 '24 下降了大約 50%。我的意思是，25 年有追趕嗎？或者你是否明確地認為，我們正在向前推進，我們什麼時候才能對 25 產生這樣的看法？然後，當您考慮如何追趕上來時，是否需要提高營運支出的元素才能讓事情重回正軌？或者 SG&A 是否有其他風險？然後也許只是清理最後一筆付款和現金。您想進一步澄清一下這裡的電池付款和那裡的時間表嗎？

First answer, no on the OpEx. The OpEx will remain under control. We don't need to grow our OpEx in order to grow the company. We had $700 million in new awards come in the door this quarter, $1.7 billion for the year. The business is going to grow. The -- I don't necessarily view this as a catch-up when you look at 2025 or beyond, obviously, we don't talk about periods in detail that far into the future. But what we're observing is the time lines are stretching with respect to the sales cycle and the construction cycles, right?

第一個答案是，營運支出上沒有。營運支出將繼續受到控制。我們不需要為了發展公司而增加營運支出。本季我們獲得了 7 億美元的新獎項，全年為 17 億美元。業務將會成長。當你展望 2025 年或以後時，我不一定認為這是一種追趕，顯然，我們不會詳細討論那麼遙遠的未來時期。但我們觀察到的是，銷售週期和施工週期的時間線正在延長，對嗎？

Macroeconomically, everyone understands the labor shortage issues that are in the market. We've got to continue to watch those. However, the IRA and the amount of awards coming through, the overall growth of the business is potentially still there. It doesn't necessarily mean that we need those time lines to compress to really continue to grow at our kind of 20% per year EBITDA, that's what we're trying to get to.

從宏觀經濟來看，每個人都了解市場上的勞動力短缺問題。我們必須繼續關注這些。然而，根據 IRA 和所獲得的獎項數量，業務的整體成長潛力仍然存在。這並不一定意味著我們需要壓縮這些時間線才能真正繼續以每年 20% 的 EBITDA 成長，這就是我們正在努力實現的目標。

So that's the response. First, with respect to SoCal, basically, when we hit substantial completion we've got 60-day payment terms that's in the contract that's public, people can see that. So you can assume that in while we're talking about 2 of the projects being completed in Q4 and then a third one in the first half of the year kind of project forward from there. We're not going into deep detail about those cash flows, Julien.

這就是回應。首先，就南加州而言，基本上，當我們實質完成時，我們在公開合約中規定了 60 天的付款條款，人們可以看到這一點。因此，您可以假設，當我們談論第 4 季完成的 2 個項目，然後是今年上半年完成的第三個項目時，此類項目將從那裡開始。朱利安，我們不會深入討論這些現金流的細節。

Right. And just time line-wise here, are we confident that you guys have a real sense of when the new time lines are for the project push? I mean it seems like this has materialized relatively recently. I mean quarter-over-quarter here. Just curious, I mean, how do you know the depth of these delays here, if you can speak a little bit more specifically to it, considering some of the larger projects like RNG and how lumpy they can be?

正確的。就時間軸而言，我們是否有信心你們真正了解專案推進的新時間表？我的意思是，這似乎是最近才實現的。我的意思是季度環比。我只是好奇，你怎麼知道這些延遲的深度，如果你能更具體地說一下，考慮到像 RNG 這樣的一些較大的項目以及它們的複雜程度？

I mean I would say that from what we have seen so far like the RNG projects, 6 to 8 months delay pretty much. And then on the other projects in construction, we just to say we have a 1- to 2-year construction schedule. Now it looks more than 1.5 to almost 3 years of construction on $100 million-plus projects. I mean that's something that has happened. Projects that they were in construction, and we deliver the equipment to the particular air base. And then because we're doing work on the North Wall somehow, some way, the stuff didn't get loaded into the plane, and that's a 6-month delay in the particular project.

我的意思是，從我們迄今為止所看到的 RNG 專案來看，延遲了 6 到 8 個月。然後對於其他正在建設的項目，我們只是說我們有一個1到2年的建設時間表。現在看來，耗資 1 億美元以上的項目需要 1.5 到近 3 年的建設時間。我的意思是，這已經發生了。他們正在建造的項目，我們將設備運送到特定的空軍基地。然後因為我們正在北牆進行工作，不知何故，這些東西沒有被裝載到飛機上，這就是特定項目延遲了 6 個月的時間。

We'll sell million of revenue but it wasn't lost. But things like that happen, left and right, and that's why we felt it to put on our part to try to incorporate as much of all this stuff into our forecast. But the business is not lost is there, and it will be done. And I think that 20% target that we have on the EBITDA in a 5-year growth, I think we feel very comfortable with that.

我們將出售數百萬美元的收入，但它並沒有損失。但類似的事情時有發生，這就是為什麼我們覺得有必要嘗試將所有這些內容盡可能納入我們的預測中。但生意並沒有失去，而且一定會完成。我認為我們對 EBITDA 5 年成長 20% 的目標感到非常滿意。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

So I just wanted to hit on the same points. You talked about delays in contract conversions. And I think I heard during the call that you mentioned that you don't think any of those delays are related to the changes in the interest rate regime. Is that correct? Is that what we heard on the call?

所以我只是想表達同樣的觀點。您談到了合約轉換的延遲。我想我在電話會議中聽到您提到您認為這些延誤與利率制度的變化無關。那是對的嗎？這是我們在電話中聽到的嗎？

That is correct.

那是對的。

That's accurate.

這是準確的。

That is correct.

那是對的。

So can you then explain...

那你能解釋一下嗎...

Some of them just administrative. The Boards do meet or people don't show up or bureaucratic nightmare in some of the federal contracts. But on the other hand, the award of that $700 million, 1/3 of that is federal contracts. It's -- we're getting them, but then moving them the next stage is getting tougher and then implementing them is getting even more tougher.

其中一些只是行政性的。董事會確實開會，或者人員沒有出席，或者在一些聯邦合約中出現官僚噩夢。但另一方面，這7億美元的授予中，1/3是聯邦合約。我們正在得到它們，但是將它們轉移到下一階段會變得更加困難，然後實施它們會變得更加困難。

So from the top of the funnel when you have this awarded project backlog that is now stretched to $2.5 billion, it's just converting that to contracted. It's strictly a function of just administrative delays and then somehow project delays are impacting that conversion as well? Is this just where the administrative issues are showing up?

因此，從漏斗的頂部看，當您獲得的項目積壓現在已達到 25 億美元時，它只是將其轉換為合約項目。這嚴格來說只是行政延誤的結果，然後不知何故專案延誤也影響了這種轉換？這就是行政問題出現的地方嗎？

No, that's really the administrative side of it, what George was just mentioning the project delays are post execution of the contract, certainly, the construction time lines, the foundation time lines and the schedules are stretching out a bit based on labor and material availability.

不，這實際上是行政方面的問題，喬治剛剛提到的項目延誤是在合約執行後，當然，施工時間線、基礎時間線和時間表根據勞動力和材料的可用性而稍微延長了一些。

And so this -- you have one of your slides is 12 to 24 months the contract, I think you said it's more like 18 to 36 months now and on track, is that right?

所以你的一張幻燈片是 12 到 24 個月的合同，我想你說過現在更像是 18 到 36 個月並且步入正軌，是嗎？

I will let Mark answer the question better than me.

我會讓馬克比我更好地回答這個問題。

I mean we're still seeing in that range, but -- and it's not impacting every one of our award. But what we've been talking about is we have several large awards that are in kind of more mature stages of the contracting process, but these administrative delays are dragging them out.

我的意思是，我們仍然看到這個範圍，但是——這並沒有影響我們的每項獎項。但我們一直在談論的是，我們有幾個大型合約處於合約流程的更成熟階段，但這些行政拖延正在拖延它們。

So on average, we're still within that range overall, but it's really been several large projects that we had expected to convert to get into that next stage of active construction where we've seen the delays. And then to the other points we've made once they have contracted that implementation period is starting to take a little bit longer to get we need to get the workforce mobilize, get materials to the work site. That is all and taking time. So it's all really kind of stretching between the conversion and then the ramp-up in the implementation, which is causing a lot of the push.

因此，平均而言，我們總體仍處於該範圍內，但實際上我們原本希望將幾個大型項目轉換為進入下一階段的積極建設，但我們已經看到了延誤。然後是我們提出的其他觀點，一旦他們簽訂了合同，實施期就開始需要更長的時間，我們需要動員勞動力，將材料運送到工作現場。這就是全部並且需要時間。因此，這實際上是轉換和實施過程中的加速之間的延伸，這造成了很大的推動。

Okay. And just maybe a final question. You mentioned that the stronger RIN prices are offsetting some of the unplanned downtime at our R&G facilities. Now as you ramp those back, what's your outlook, anything you can share on the recent surge in D3 RINs and how you plan to monetize those? Have you missed an opportunity here to monetize some of your wins based on the downtime?

好的。也許只是最後一個問題。您提到 RIN 價格走強正在抵消我們 R&G 設施的一些計劃外停機。現在，當您恢復這些目標時，您的前景如何？您可以分享最近 D3 RIN 激增的情況嗎？您計劃如何將這些貨幣化？您是否錯過了根據停機時間將部分勝利貨幣化的機會？

Well, we're taking advantage of the market always. We started the year with about 50% merchant. And -- but right now, what we have left for this year is probably the production of the last couple of months. We've been monetizing them month to month, and we got pretty good prices, I would say. And then it's been reflected in our guidance this year as well as next year. And the other thing I want to point out, and I think I did mention at one of the calls last time for '24, we were always optimistic about the RIN prices and what we had used for that old estimate, it was pretty much what the RIN prices are today right now.

嗯，我們一直在利用市場。今年年初，我們有大約 50% 的商家。而且 - 但現在，我們今年剩下的可能是過去幾個月的產量。我想說，我們每個月都在透過它們貨幣化，而且我們得到了相當不錯的價格。然後它反映在我們今年和明年的指導中。我想指出的另一件事，我想我在上次 24 年的一次電話會議上確實提到過，我們總是對 RIN 價格以及我們用於舊估計的價格感到樂觀，這幾乎是RIN 價格為今天的價格。

Our next question comment comes from the line of Moses Sutton from BNP Paribas.

我們的下一個問題評論來自法國巴黎銀行的摩西·薩頓 (Moses Sutton)。

And first, for what it's worth, I do not think you should slow growth like Perfin noted in order to return cash when there's real growth in the table. I guess first question, how do you think about adjusted EBITDA margins at the project business? It's 4% for the 9 months year-to-date. I think of this closer to 10% typically. Is this due to inflation? Is it due to certain mismatches on delay? How do we think of that on the project side adjusted EBITDA?

首先，就其價值而言，我認為你不應該像 Perfin 指出的那樣放慢增長速度，以便在表中出現實際增長時返還現金。我想第一個問題是，您如何看待專案業務調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率？今年迄今 9 個月的成長率為 4%。我認為這個比例通常接近 10%。這是由於通貨膨脹嗎？是某些延遲不匹配造成的嗎？我們如何看待專案方調整後的 EBITDA？

Yes. I mean the 10% sounds a little bit high, but I think that it's typically a function of mix, right? And so when you're comparing year-over-year, it's going to be a function of the mix of projects that are active at that point that are impacting the margins. I think we've been probably closer to 6% historically. So we're not that far off and again, I think we've seen some of our mix more recently have a little bit lower margin profile, even though overall margins have been expanding. So I think we're not far off of kind of where our historical margins have been.

是的。我的意思是 10% 聽起來有點高，但我認為它通常是混音的函數，對嗎？因此，當您進行逐年比較時，這將是影響利潤率的活躍項目組合的函數。我認為歷史上我們可能一直接近 6%。因此，我們並沒有那麼遙遠，我認為我們最近看到我們的一些組合的利潤率略低，儘管整體利潤率一直在擴大。所以我認為我們離歷史邊緣已經不遠了。

Got it. Got it. That's helpful. And then I guess back on the D3 RIN topic, so as the RINs on the spot basis sit near the 2021 peaks, I know you typically talk about a certain like 50% spot exposure or spot hedges 50% contracted. Is the delay in R&D projects actually offering you the ability to contract more of the future RINs that you expect as projects roll online next year at a higher contracted price than you would have prior. Is that already embedded in the $250 million?

知道了。知道了。這很有幫助。然後我想回到 D3 RIN 主題，因此當現貨基礎上的 RIN 接近 2021 年的峰值時，我知道您通常會談論 50% 的現貨敞口或 50% 的現貨對沖收縮。研發專案的延遲是否實際上讓您能夠簽訂更多您期望的未來 RIN，因為專案明年會以比之前更高的合約價格上線？這是否已包含在 2.5 億美元中？

It's a very, very good point. Actually, we are talking to a couple of firms right now. We have a couple of offers on the table. That's why we not forecasting ring prices for next year and so on, that we might enter into a couple of long-term contracts with much higher prices than what we had, let's say, entered to the contracts couple of -- 3 years back. No, no, we are looking at it. And no question about it. And as soon as we feel a little bit more comfortable with the prices, we will execute them.

這是一個非常非常好的觀點。事實上，我們現在正在與幾家公司進行洽談。我們有幾個報價。這就是為什麼我們不預測明年的環價格等等，我們可能會簽訂幾份長期合同，其價格比我們三年前簽訂的合約價格要高得多。不不不，我們正在看。毫無疑問。一旦我們對價格感到滿意，我們就會執行它們。

That's very helpful. And what's long term considered now in terms of -- tenor in terms of years?

這非常有幫助。現在從期限（年限）角度考慮什麼是長期的？

We have up to 15 years.

我們還有長達15年的時間。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of William Grippin from UBS.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自瑞銀集團 (UBS) 的威廉·格里平 (William Grippin)。

First question, just hoping you could maybe give a little more color around the RNG financing you recently announced with Hasse. My understanding is that, that structure is flexible and that there might be a return sharing component to your actual costs to that financing? Is that something you're able to elaborate on?

第一個問題，只是希望你能對你最近與 Hasse 宣布的 RNG 融資提供更多的資訊。我的理解是，該結構是靈活的，而該融資的實際成本可能包含回報分享部分？能詳細說明一下嗎？

Folks, this is Josh Baribeau here. So it's not variable. How it works is there's a fixed cash component interest rate until the loan is amortized. And then after that, and it gets a bit of a cash sweep until they achieve an IRR, internal rate of return on their initial investment amount.

各位，我是喬許·巴里博。所以它不是可變的。其運作方式是，在貸款攤提之前，現金部分的利率是固定的。然後，他們會進行一些現金掃蕩，直到他們達到 IRR，即初始投資金額的內部回​​報率。

Are you able to disclose what the actual, I guess, the upfront rate is for you? The effective rate for you is on that financing?

能透露一下您的實際預付費用嗎？您的有效利率是該融資嗎？

Yes, that's in the 8-K, and we're accruing at that IRR rate.

是的，這是在 8-K 中，我們按照該 IRR 率累積。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Christopher Souther from B. Riley.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 B. Riley 的 Christopher Souther。

With the cycle being extended for contracting awards and implementation, I think this year, we're much more back-end loaded with the visibility you're going to have. So I'm just kind of curious how you're thinking about the visibility today and when you get kind of the full guidance for 2024. Should we consider expectation that there's going to be a lot more kind of visibility on awarded kind of contracted backlog as we kind of enter the year? Or is that maybe wishful thinking on my end, just how do you think about like the visibility on that $250 million.

隨著合約授予和實施週期的延長，我認為今年，我們將在後端加載更多的可見性。因此，我只是有點好奇，您今天如何看待可見性，以及何時獲得 2024 年的完整指導。我們是否應該考慮預期，對於已授予的合約積壓訂單，將會有更多的可見性當我們進入這一年的時候？或者這可能是我的一廂情願，你怎麼看待那 2.5 億美元的能見度。

I think we have pretty good visibility, and we're relying more on contracted and we invest where we're going to be at the end of the year on the contracted and that gives more impact than anything else and not rely as much. We're not going to have the big hockey stick like we did this year for the last couple of quarters, especially where we are.

我認為我們有很好的可見性，我們更依賴合同，我們在年底時對合約進行投資，這比其他任何事情都產生更大的影響，而且不那麼依賴。我們不會像今年過去幾季那樣擁有大曲棍球桿，尤其是我們現在的情況。

Okay. And then maybe on the project, the potential development project sales. Is there any sector in particular you're seeing that you'd be focused on for potential sales? Is it solar, batteries, RNG? Like what specific areas will you be kind of looking at there? Or is it kind of all the above?

好的。然後也許是在項目上，潛在的開發項目銷售。您是否特別關注某個行業的潛在銷售？是太陽能、電池還是RNG？例如您會在那裡關注哪些具體領域？或是以上所有的情況嗎？

I think it's not really RNG. I think we're mostly on solar, certainly and then the hybrid -- solar and battery, I wouldn't put it past us to think about some of the stand-alone battery given the fact that some of those markets, like I said, we continue to develop in multiple markets. Some of those markets might have more merchants than we like. And so therefore, we'll work on an NTP sale of projects like that. So I think it's more along those lines versus the RNG.

我認為這不是真正的RNG。我認為我們主要依靠太陽能，當然還有混合動力——太陽能和電池，我不會讓我們考慮一些獨立電池，因為正如我所說，其中一些市場，我們繼續在多個市場發展。其中一些市場的商家數量可能超出我們的預期。因此，我們將致力於此類項目的 NTP 銷售。所以我認為與 RNG 相比，這更符合這些原則。

I want everybody to understand with developing assets, whether it's solar assets, battery assets and monetizing them, it's no different than the developing the energy for government contract. Basically, we sell the receivable and then we get the money and then the financing and then at the end of the day, we guarantee the savings. This is even a simpler process. It just takes a little bit longer time. And then we have the option to keep the ones that they have with better returns and remit that have inferior rate of return. And RNG projects, generally, they are more complicated, no question about it. But at this point in time, they get better returns.

我想讓大家明白，開發資產，無論是太陽能資產、電池資產並將其貨幣化，這與開發政府合約能源沒有什麼不同。基本上，我們出售應收帳款，然後獲得資金，然後獲得融資，最後，我們保證節省費用。這是一個更簡單的過程。只是需要更長的時間。然後我們可以選擇保留回報率較高的項目，並匯出回報率較低的項目。而RNG項目，一般來說，它們都比較複雜，這是毫無疑問的。但在這個時候，他們卻獲得了更好的回報。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Pavel Molchanov from Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自 Raymond James 的 Pavel Molchanov。

A lot of commentary about the core domestic business. I'll ask 2 questions about Europe. First of all, are any of the permitting issues and supply chain complications affecting any of your work on the other side of the Atlantic?

關於國內核心業務的評論很多。我會問兩個關於歐洲的問題。首先，任何許可問題和供應鏈複雜性是否會影響您在大西洋彼岸的工作？

So first point that I will tell you because I was there last week visiting one of the sites -- one of the large sites. The -- there's been a little bit but not to the tune that we've seen here in the United States with respect to labor availability and materials. I think that we -- especially on that 100-megawatt Delfini project that we've got in Greece, that is still kind of cruising along on top. And we've only had slight variations associated with the time line there.

我要告訴你的第一點是因為我上週訪問了其中一個站點——其中一個大型站點。在勞動力供應和材料方面，有一些變化，但與我們在美國看到的情況不同。我認為我們——尤其是我們在希臘的 100 兆瓦 Delfini 項目，仍然處於領先地位。我們只對那裡的時間線有輕微的變化。

So -- and I think that what we're projecting on many of the new wins in the awarded category, some of which was there in Europe on the EPC side. Expectations still remain strong on availability of materials and labors in those jurisdictions where we're winning projects for them.

所以——我認為我們對獲獎類別中的許多新勝利的預測，其中一些是在歐洲的 EPC 方面。對於我們為他們贏得專案的司法管轄區的材料和勞動力的可用性仍然抱有強烈的期望。

And that goes even in U.K. The only exception there was the Bristol City contract that we have. And we wish the numbers by good margin there, not because we didn't have the projects, but -- and this is a lesson for us, getting the projects approved through the city council and everybody else that has to approve those particular projects, it take considerably longer than we thought. Now we have incorporated monthly maintenance will meet with the word and identify what projects are going to be doing them and have them pretty much approved by the end of this year what we're going to build the next year. So that one, we missed the boat as far as what we thought it was possible and what actually happened. Again, it's administrative, not because they don't want to do or anything else, but...

即使在英國也是如此。唯一的例外是我們與布里斯托爾城的合約。我們希望那裡的數字有很大優勢，不是因為我們沒有項目，而是——這對我們來說是一個教訓，讓項目得到市議會和其他必須批准這些特定項目的人的批准，它花費的時間比我們想像的要長得多。現在，我們已經納入了每月維護工作，並確定將要進行哪些項目，並在今年年底前獲得幾乎批准我們明年將要建造的項目。因此，就我們認為可能的情況和實際發生的情況而言，我們錯過了機會。再說一遍，這是行政性的，不是因為他們不想做或其他任何事情，而是......

Yes. Administrative and that's about the cycle of just conversion of awards. So I guess not anything about actual construction activity and furthermore, is a push to the right. It's not a change in any of the scope of the awards that we have disclosed.

是的。行政方面，這就是獎項轉換的周期。所以我想與實際的建設活動無關，而且是向右推動。我們已揭露的獎項範圍並沒有發生任何變化。

Okay. Clear. Staying on the European theme, you (inaudible) for this year, I have to imagine that with some of the macro issues, multiples on prospective M&A have come down. In that context, are you seeing more opportunities to bulk up your business there via M&A?

好的。清除。繼續圍繞歐洲主題，你（聽不清楚）今年，我必須想像，由於一些宏觀問題，預期併購的倍數已經下降。在這種情況下，您是否看到了更多透過併購擴大業務的機會？

Yes. We don't have anything specific to talk about today, but we would agree with your comment. And we are seeing -- again, we're very opportunistic. We're still sticking to our knitting in terms of what we're looking for management fit, financial valuation and so on and so forth. But yes, the number of opportunities that look interesting has increased.

是的。我們今天沒有什麼具體可談的，但我們同意您的評論。我們再次看到，我們非常機會主義。我們仍然堅持我們在尋找管理層合適、財務估值等方面的編織。但確實，看起來有趣的機會數量增加。

Our next question comment comes from the line of Davis Sunderland from Baird.

我們的下一個問題評論來自貝爾德 (Baird) 的戴維斯桑德蘭 (Davis Sunderland)。

Most of my questions have already been asked. I just wanted to ask, is there any possibility of recovery expenses associated with some of these projects in the contracted stage that have been drawn out? Similar to SoCal or other deals that you've done in the past? And my follow-up is, given the lack of visibility in the labor and component shortages, how are you thinking about these variables and contracts now going forward?

我的大部分問題已經被問到了。我只是想問一下，這些已簽約階段的項目，有沒有可能收回相關費用？與 SoCal 或您過去做過的其他交易類似嗎？我的後續問題是，鑑於勞動力和零件短缺缺乏可見性，您如何看待這些變數和合約現在的進展？

Yes. Sure. So sorry, David, your line is a little bit fuzzy, but I think I got the question. So the first point is when something actually is created by a force majeure situation, yes, of course, we can claim back costs for certain delays, and that's always contractual. I don't have any particular anecdotes for you or numbers on that. But yes, in general, the contracts -- generally looking for force majeure are not necessarily a general slowdown or availability of labor, though.

是的。當然。很抱歉，大衛，你的台詞有點模糊，但我想我明白了這個問題。因此，第一點是，當某些事情實際上是由不可抗力情況造成時，是的，當然，我們可以要求收回某些延誤的費用，而這始終是合約規定的。我沒有任何具體的軼事或數字可以告訴你。但是，是的，總的來說，合約——通常尋找不可抗力，並不一定是普遍的放緩或勞動力的可用性。

With respect to looking through the remainder of the year and in talking about -- thinking about 250 number next year, we've effectively taken into account what is happening in considering the cadence of construction going forward. As we talked about, we don't typically lose business out of the awarded backlog or contracted backlog, certainly not out of the contracted backlog. However, if there are slowdowns, things just kind of push out to the right. So we've adjusted expectations with respect to cadence, and we've presented numbers on that basis to you all today.

在回顧今年剩餘時間並討論明年的 250 個數字時，我們在考慮未來施工節奏時有效地考慮了正在發生的情況。正如我們所討論的，我們通常不會因為授予的積壓訂單或合約積壓訂單而失去業務，當然也不會因為合約積壓訂單而失去業務。然而，如果出現減速，事情就會往右推。因此，我們調整了對節奏的期望，今天我們在此基礎上向大家提供了數據。

Our next question or comment comes from the line of Greg Wasikowski from Webber Research Advisory.

我們的下一個問題或評論來自韋伯研究顧問公司的 Greg Wasikowski。

Just one for me. I just wanted to ask a little bit more about the prospect of selling off some assets in development because I just feel like I might not be grasping it or maybe I misheard it. It seems like that would allow you to stay in front of customers and maintain business within projects in O&M, which is great. But if you're trading energy assets business for projects and L&M business, isn't that like trading a high EBITDA margin business for a low one. So in a sense, it wouldn't be as much pushing it out to the right as much as it would be kind of more like margin erosion for the sake of continuity. Is that a fair way of looking at it? Or am I off base there?

只給我一個。我只是想多問一些關於出售一些正在開發的資產的前景，因為我只是覺得我可能沒有理解它，或者也許我聽錯了。看起來這可以讓你保持在客戶面前並維持維運專案內的業務，這很棒。但如果您用能源資產業務換取專案和 L&M 業務，這豈不是就像用高 EBITDA 利潤率業務換低利潤率業務一樣。因此，從某種意義上說，它不會將其向右推，而更像是為了連續性而導致的利潤侵蝕。這是一個公平的看待它的方式嗎？還是我偏離了基地？

Yes. So I'll just kind of guide you to the way we think about these things. A couple of important metrics for us when we're evaluating assets that go away from EBITDA generation and levered equity IRR or cash generation and net income. And as it turns out, some of these assets, when we look at anything that might have a merchant tail on it, others were the unlevered IRR is relatively tight versus the funding costs. We then turn our attention to, well, from an overall cash flow generation perspective, we're probably better served when we look at where the market is pricing some of those assets to perform the EPC and grab the O&M contract to generate additional cash flow and recycle that into something that's actually going to look better for us from a cash flow and net income perspective over the long term. That's the only kind of modification I might throw there.

是的。因此，我將引導您了解我們思考這些事情的方式。當我們評估不屬於 EBITDA 生成和槓桿股權 IRR 或現金生成和淨利潤的資產時，有幾個重要指標。事實證明，當我們考慮任何可能帶有商人尾巴的資產時，其中一些資產的無槓桿內部收益率相對於融資成本而言相對較緊。然後，我們將注意力轉向，從整體現金流產生的角度來看，當我們查看市場對其中一些資產的定價以執行 EPC 並獲取 O&M 合約以產生額外現金流時，我們可能會得到更好的服務從長遠來看，從現金流和淨利潤的角度來看，將其回收為對我們來說實際上看起來更好的東西。這是我可能在那裡進行的唯一修改。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the Q&A session. And this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a wonderful day.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，問答環節到此結束。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。祝大家有美好的一天。