Ameresco Inc (AMRC) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Q4 2022 Ameresco, Inc. Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions)

美好的一天，謝謝你的支持。歡迎來到 Ameresco, Inc. 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）

Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded, and I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Miss Leila Dillon, Senior Vice President of Marketing. Miss Dillon, please go ahead.

請注意，今天的會議正在錄製中，我現在想將會議交給今天的演講者，營銷高級副總裁 Leila Dillon 小姐。狄龍小姐，請繼續。

Thank you, Chris, and good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for today's call. Joining me here are George Sakellaris, Ameresco's Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Doran Hole, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Mark Chiplock, Senior Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer.

謝謝克里斯，大家下午好。感謝您加入我們今天的電話會議。和我一起來的還有 Ameresco 的董事長、總裁兼首席執行官 George Sakellaris； Doran Hole，執行副總裁兼首席財務官；高級副總裁兼首席會計官 Mark Chiplock。

Before I turn the call over to George, I would like to make a brief statement regarding forward-looking remarks. Today's earnings materials contain forward-looking statements, including statements regarding our expectations. All forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties. Please refer to today's earnings materials, the safe harbor language on Slide 2 and our SEC filings for a discussion of the major risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ from those in our forward-looking statements. In addition, we use several non-GAAP measures when presenting our financial results. We have included the reconciliations to these measures in our supplemental financial information.

在我把電話轉給喬治之前，我想就前瞻性言論做一個簡短的聲明。今天的收益材料包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們預期的陳述。所有前瞻性陳述均受風險和不確定因素的影響。請參閱今天的收益材料、幻燈片 2 上的安全港語言和我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件，以討論可能導致我們的實際結果與我們的前瞻性陳述中的結果不同的主要風險因素。此外，我們在展示我們的財務業績時使用了多項非 GAAP 指標。我們已將對這些措施的調節納入我們的補充財務信息。

I will now turn the call over to George. George?

我現在將把電話轉給喬治。喬治？

Thank you, Leila, and good afternoon, everyone. I am pleased to report on Ameresco's great performance for 2022. We just completed our fifth consecutive year of record revenue and profits. We achieved revenue growth of 50% and adjusted EBITDA growth of 34%. This robust performance reflected how well our advanced technology portfolio and capabilities are aligned with market demand. The Ameresco team delivered these impressive full year results while navigating challenging global issues.

謝謝你，萊拉，大家下午好。我很高興地報告 Ameresco 在 2022 年的出色表現。我們剛剛連續第五年創下了創紀錄的收入和利潤。我們實現了 50% 的收入增長和 34% 的調整後 EBITDA 增長。這種強勁的表現反映了我們先進的技術組合和能力如何與市場需求保持一致。 Ameresco 團隊在解決具有挑戰性的全球問題的同時，實現了這些令人印象深刻的全年業績。

The fourth quarter was impacted by pushouts related to scheduling changes in implementation, supply chain issues and unplanned maintenance at 2 of our RNG facilities. Some of these timing-related issues will likely continue into the first and second quarter of 2023, but we believe that they are short term and that business will normalize in the second half of the year. Even in light of these pushouts and the very difficult comparisons, we will face this year from the unusually large Southern California Edison contracts. We are very pleased to [we're climbing] to growth in our 2023 adjusted EBITDA. This expected year-over-year growth is a true validation of our diversified clean tech business model. Market activity and demand conditions remain very healthy with heightened proposal activity. Our customers continue to evaluate the recently enacted Inflation Reduction Act, and we are working to prioritize the type and timing of their projects. The support for a very broad range of technologies provided by the IRA greatly favors comprehensive solution providers such as Ameresco. We believe this is a more transformational legislation affecting our industry, providing a long-term runway for advanced clean technology deployments for years to come.

第四季度受到與實施計劃變更、供應鏈問題和我們 2 個 RNG 設施的計劃外維護相關的推出的影響。其中一些與時間相關的問題可能會持續到 2023 年第一季度和第二季度，但我們認為它們是短期的，業務將在下半年恢復正常。即使考慮到這些推出和非常困難的比較，我們今年仍將面臨來自南加州愛迪生公司的異常大的合同。我們很高興 [we're climbing] 實現 2023 年調整後 EBITDA 的增長。這一預期的同比增長是對我們多元化清潔技術業務模式的真實驗證。隨著提案活動的增加，市場活動和需求狀況仍然非常健康。我們的客戶繼續評估最近頒布的通貨膨脹減少法案，我們正在努力優先考慮他們項目的類型和時間安排。 IRA 提供的對范圍非常廣泛的技術的支持極大地有利於綜合解決方案提供商，例如 Ameresco。我們相信這是一項影響我們行業的更具變革性的立法，為未來幾年先進清潔技術的部署提供了長期的跑道。

2022 marked a year of major accomplishments in Europe, including our decarbonization award with the city of Bristol in the U.K. In addition, to be selected for this transformational Net Zero municipal project, our Greek joint venture was also selected as a contractor for the 100-megawatt PV project in Northern Greece. Both of these projects notably represent very large contracts for Ameresco, but also some of the largest in their respective geographies and thus, significantly raising our original profile. In the fourth quarter, we announced the acquisition of a 5-megawatt wind farm in Ireland, and today, we are excited to announce an agreement to acquire Energos, an Italian-based energy services company. This acquisition further strengthens Ameresco's European footprint by adding local resources, customers and a new pipeline of work throughout Italy. This also supports our growth strategy for the C&I market as Energos has a strong portfolio of commercial and industrial customers. They have a history of profitability, and we expect this acquisition to be immediately accretive. Our merger and acquisition strategy is generally to acquire highly regarded companies with great management teams and a strong plan for organic growth in order to create long-term value for our shareholders while minimizing risk.

2022 年是歐洲取得重大成就的一年，包括我們與英國布里斯托爾市的脫碳獎。此外，為了被選中參與這一轉型性淨零市政項目，我們的希臘合資企業還被選為 100-希臘北部兆瓦級光伏項目。這兩個項目特別代表了 Ameresco 的非常大的合同，但也是各自地區最大的合同，因此顯著提升了我們的原始形象。在第四季度，我們宣布收購愛爾蘭的一個 5 兆瓦風電場，今天，我們很高興地宣布一項收購總部位於意大利的能源服務公司 Energos 的協議。此次收購通過在整個意大利增加當地資源、客戶和新的工作渠道，進一步加強了 Ameresco 在歐洲的足跡。這也支持我們的 C&I 市場增長戰略，因為 Energos 擁有強大的商業和工業客戶組合。他們有盈利的歷史，我們預計這次收購將立即增加。我們的併購戰略通常是收購擁有優秀管理團隊和強有力的有機增長計劃的知名公司，以便為我們的股東創造長期價值，同時將風險降至最低。

Now I would like to talk about renewable natural gas. With over 20 years, a vertically integrated experience in self-developing biogas plants, we are one of the leading players in the RNG space. Federal incentives in the transportation market plus a push by large execution utilities, universities and corporate customers should make this a very attractive market for many years to come. We believe we have significant competitive advantages in developing, constructing and operating these plants and navigating the many authorities, permitting agencies and equipment suppliers. With 20 biogas plants in our assets and development pipeline, we believe our RNG franchise will continue to be a significant driver in its shareholder value.

現在我想談談可再生天然氣。憑藉 20 多年在自主開發沼氣廠方面的垂直整合經驗，我們是 RNG 領域的領先企業之一。聯邦在運輸市場的激勵措施加上大型執行公用事業、大學和企業客戶的推動，應該使這個市場在未來許多年內都非常有吸引力。我們相信，我們在開發、建設和運營這些工廠以及與眾多主管部門、許可機構和設備供應商打交道方面具有顯著的競爭優勢。我們的資產和開發管道中有 20 個沼氣廠，我們相信我們的 RNG 特許經營權將繼續成為其股東價值的重要驅動力。

Now I would like to provide a brief update for the Southern California Edison project. As we noted in the third quarter of 2022, Southern California Edison instructed us to adjust the project schedules in 2023. We are also continuing discussions regarding COVID-19 and weather-related force majeure relief. We anticipate the projects to be in service prior to the summer of 2023. Our relationship with Southern California Edison continues to be very cooperative. The knowledge and expertise we have gained from this and other large battery storage and microgrid projects help make us one of the go-to companies in the industry. We look forward to announcing additional wins in these areas in the future.

現在我想簡要介紹一下南加州愛迪生項目的最新情況。正如我們在 2022 年第三季度所指出的那樣，南加州愛迪生公司指示我們在 2023 年調整項目時間表。我們還在繼續討論 COVID-19 和與天氣相關的不可抗力救濟。我們預計這些項目將在 2023 年夏季之前投入使用。我們與南加州愛迪生公司的關係繼續非常合作。我們從這個和其他大型電池存儲和微電網項目中獲得的知識和專業知識幫助我們成為業內首選公司之一。我們期待著在未來宣佈在這些領域取得更多勝利。

Finally, our environmental, social and governance programs and goals remain a top corporate focus. We were very pleased to be named a silver winner in the Best Place to Work category by the best in these awards. I am very proud of our company's culture occurring for the communities in which we serve as well as our employees, customers and stockholders.

最後，我們的環境、社會和治理計劃和目標仍然是公司的首要關注點。我們很高興被這些獎項中的佼佼者評為“最佳工作場所”類別的銀獎得主。我為我們公司的文化為我們所服務的社區以及我們的員工、客戶和股東而生，我感到非常自豪。

I will now turn the call over to Doran to comment on our financial performance and outlook. Doran?

我現在將把電話轉給 Doran，讓他對我們的財務業績和前景發表評論。多蘭？

Thank you, George, and good afternoon, everyone. For additional financial information, please refer to the press release and supplemental slides that were posted to our website after the market closed today. The Ameresco team delivered another year of record financial results as all 4 of our business lines experienced solid growth and profitability. Full year revenue growth of 50% was led by our projects business as we continue to execute on the SoCal Ed projects. This growth was complemented by the strong performance of our other 3 business lines, energy assets, O&M and other, leading to adjusted EBITDA growth of 34% to a record $204.5 million. We started to face difficult year-over-year comparisons in our projects business during the fourth quarter of 2022, given that our work on the large SCE projects commenced during Q4 of 2021. We expect this to continue through the third quarter of 2023. These difficult quarterly comparisons, together with the challenges that George mentioned previously, resulted in year-over-year declines in project revenue. Energy asset revenue was down year-on-year by 6% due to unplanned maintenance issues at 2 of our RNG facilities in Q4, but these plants are now operating at their expected output. On the other hand, our O&M business line delivered another solid quarter of 5% growth as we continue to attach O&M contracts to our projects, especially those with the federal government. And our other revenue line had another quarter of double-digit growth, up 16%. As we expected, our gross margin increased to 18.6%, 150 basis points ahead of the prior year as the lower-margin SoCal Ed contract declined as a percent of our total revenue mix. We generated adjusted EBITDA of $41.3 million in the quarter. It is important to note that the quarter was impacted by higher-than-expected interest expense as the extension of the SCE projects required us to carry substantial working capital. Our contract allows for cost relief, and we have included this additional interest expense in the proposed cost recovery that we have been discussing with SoCal Ed.

謝謝喬治，大家下午好。有關其他財務信息，請參閱今天收市後發佈到我們網站上的新聞稿和補充幻燈片。 Ameresco 團隊又創造了一年創紀錄的財務業績，因為我們所有 4 條業務線都實現了穩健的增長和盈利能力。隨著我們繼續執行 SoCal Ed 項目，我們的項目業務帶動了全年收入增長 50%。這一增長得到了我們其他 3 條業務線、能源資產、O&M 和其他業務的強勁表現的補充，導致調整後的 EBITDA 增長 34%，達到創紀錄的 2.045 億美元。鑑於我們在 2021 年第四季度開始的大型 SCE 項目的工作，我們在 2022 年第四季度開始面臨項目業務的艱難同比比較。我們預計這種情況將持續到 2023 年第三季度。這些困難的季度比較，加上喬治之前提到的挑戰，導致項目收入同比下降。由於第四季度我們的 2 個 RNG 設施出現計劃外維護問題，能源資產收入同比下降 6%，但這些工廠現在以預期產量運行。另一方面，由於我們繼續將 O&M 合同附加到我們的項目，尤其是與聯邦政府的項目，我們的 O&M 業務線又實現了 5% 的穩定增長。我們的其他收入線又實現了兩位數的增長，增長了 16%。正如我們預期的那樣，我們的毛利率增加到 18.6%，比上一年高出 150 個基點，因為利潤率較低的 SoCal Ed 合同占我們總收入組合的百分比有所下降。我們在本季度產生了 4130 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。值得注意的是，本季度受到高於預期的利息支出的影響，因為 SCE 項目的擴展需要我們攜帶大量營運資金。我們的合同允許減免成本，並且我們已將這筆額外的利息費用包括在我們一直在與 SoCal Ed 討論的擬議成本回收中。

Total project backlog was a healthy $2.6 billion at the end of the quarter even in light of the substantial conversion of SCE projects backlog to revenue. Of note, our awarded backlog grew 6% compared to last year, continuing to build momentum for future project revenue. Ameresco expanded its portfolio of operating energy assets to 389 megawatts, and our owned assets in development was 470 megawatts at the end of the year. As a reminder, we are disclosing in our supplemental slides both the total assets in development as well as a pro forma net megawatt total after adjusting for our partners' equity interests. Our nationwide greenfield solar and storage development group continues to build up its pipeline of early-stage front-of-the-meter opportunities. We expect the volume of these opportunities to grow driven by the numerous IRA incentives related to these assets. Our ability to finance these energy assets remains strong as we secured $137 million in additional project financing during the quarter, bringing our total financing for the year up to $468 million.

即使考慮到 SCE 項目積壓大量轉化為收入，本季度末項目積壓總額仍為 26 億美元。值得注意的是，與去年相比，我們授予的積壓訂單增長了 6%，繼續為未來的項目收入創造動力。 Ameresco 將其運營能源資產組合擴大到 389 兆瓦，而我們在開發中的自有資產在年底為 470 兆瓦。提醒一下，我們在補充幻燈片中披露了開發中的總資產以及根據合作夥伴的股權進行調整後的備考淨兆瓦總數。我們在全國范圍內的綠地太陽能和儲能開發團隊繼續建立其早期的前端機會管道。我們預計，在與這些資產相關的眾多 IRA 激勵措施的推動下，這些機會的數量將會增加。我們為這些能源資產融資的能力依然強勁，因為我們在本季度獲得了 1.37 億美元的額外項目融資，使我們全年的融資總額達到 4.68 億美元。

We believe Ameresco's unique business model affords us substantial forward visibility given the combination of project backlog, O&M backlog and the estimated contracted and market pricing revenue from our energy assets. Together, these lines of business provide a path to over $6 billion in future revenues.

鑑於項目積壓、O&M 積壓以及我們能源資產的合同和市場定價估計收入的結合，我們相信 Ameresco 獨特的商業模式為我們提供了實質性的前瞻性可見性。這些業務線共同為未來收入超過 60 億美元提供了途徑。

In previous quarters, we have only reported estimated contracted revenue and incentives for our operating energy assets. As George noted earlier, we believe that our RNG franchise is a significant driver of value to our stockholders. To help show a more complete picture of our RNG asset value proposition, we have started providing an estimate for the uncontracted R&G revenues that we expect to generate over the life of these assets. Using conservative assumptions for asset light and merchant market pricing for RINs, we estimate these revenues, again, just from our operating RNG assets to be an additional $1.2 billion on top of over $1 billion of contracted revenues from all of our operating assets. This projected R&D revenue is based on RIN prices of $1.50 per gallon, brown gas at $3.50 per MMBtu and LCFS revenue, where applicable, at $3 per MMBtu. We've assumed an average asset life of 20 years. Of course, we still have the option to enter into longer-term offtake contracts if we feel we are creating additional value by doing so. I'll reiterate that the $2.3 billion in revenue visibility only relates to our assets that are currently operating and does not include any expected revenue from our 470 megawatts of energy assets in development with construction. As those assets begin operating, we in turn expect to add significantly more revenue visibility to our profile.

在前幾個季度，我們只報告了我們運營能源資產的估計合同收入和激勵措施。正如喬治之前指出的那樣，我們相信我們的 RNG 特許經營權是我們股東價值的重要驅動力。為了更全面地展示我們的 RNG 資產價值主張，我們已經開始對我們預計在這些資產的生命週期內產生的未簽約 R&G 收入進行估算。使用對 RIN 的輕資產和商業市場定價的保守假設，我們再次估計這些收入僅來自我們的運營 RNG 資產，除了來自我們所有運營資產的超過 10 億美元的合同收入之外，還有 12 億美元。該預計研發收入基於每加侖 1.50 美元的 RIN 價格、每 MMBtu 3.50 美元的褐氣價格和每 MMBtu 3 美元的 LCFS 收入（如適用）。我們假設平均資產壽命為 20 年。當然，如果我們認為這樣做正在創造額外價值，我們仍然可以選擇簽訂長期承購合同。我要重申，23 億美元的收入可見性僅與我們目前正在運營的資產有關，不包括我們正在開發和建設的 470 兆瓦能源資產的任何預期收入。隨著這些資產開始運營，我們反過來期望為我們的形象增加更多的收入可見性。

Turning to guidance. 2023 guidance anticipates adjusted EBITDA growth of 5% at the midpoint. We are very pleased to be guiding to this growth even as we face difficult comparisons due to the large SCE projects. We anticipate placing between 80 and 100 megawatts of energy assets in service during 2023. The 3 RNG plants we had expected to be mechanically complete by the end of 2022 continued to progress as their schedules were impacted by permitting delays and longer lead times on certain types of equipment. Looking forward, we expect these 3 plants to be operational this year, and we also have several additional RNG assets in late stages of development. We expect that 4 or 5 of those will come online during 2024. Our expected asset CapEx for 2023 is $325 million to $375 million, the majority of which we expect to fund with nonrecourse debt.

轉向指導。 2023 年指引預計調整後的 EBITDA 增長率中點為 5%。即使由於大型 SCE 項目而面臨困難的比較，我們也很高興能夠指導這種增長。我們預計 2023 年將有 80 到 100 兆瓦的能源資產投入使用。我們預計到 2022 年底機械完工的 3 座 RNG 工廠繼續取得進展，因為它們的進度受到某些類型的許可延遲和更長的交貨時間的影響的設備。展望未來，我們預計這 3 座工廠將在今年投入運營，而且我們還有幾處 RNG 資產處於後期開發階段。我們預計其中 4 到 5 個將在 2024 年上線。我們預計 2023 年的資產資本支出為 3.25 億美元至 3.75 億美元，我們預計其中大部分將通過無追索權債務提供資金。

As we look to the first quarter, we estimate revenue to be in the range of $220 million to $240 million and adjusted EBITDA of $20 million to $30 million. We expect non-GAAP EPS to be slightly positive. As George noted, we expect Q1 to be impacted by pushouts on a couple of large projects on top of our normal energy asset and project seasonality. Furthermore, net income will be impacted by the continued carrying costs of SCE-related working capital. We expect the remainder of 2023 to follow our normal cadence with progressive improvement throughout the year.

展望第一季度，我們估計收入在 2.2 億至 2.4 億美元之間，調整後的 EBITDA 為 2000 萬至 3000 萬美元。我們預計非 GAAP 每股收益將略微為正。正如 George 指出的那樣，我們預計第一季度將受到除了我們正常的能源資產和項目季節性之外的幾個大型項目的推出的影響。此外，淨收入將受到與 SCE 相關的營運資金的持續持有成本的影響。我們預計 2023 年剩餘時間將遵循我們的正常節奏，全年逐步改善。

Now I'd like to turn the call back over to George for closing comments.

現在我想把電話轉回給喬治以徵求意見。

Thank you, Doran. We maintained an excellent line of sight to our 2024 target of $300 million in adjusted EBITDA. As governments and institutions around the world invest in solutions addressing climate, geopolitical and budgetary challenges, Ameresco continues to enhance our expertise to provide these solutions, positioning us for robust, profitable long-term growth. Finally, we look forward to welcoming analysts and institutional investors to our European Investor Day being held in London on May 11. This event will feature presentations and panels by key Executives from our leadership team with discussions focused on our expanding growth opportunities, including our plans for continued expansion in Europe.

謝謝你，多蘭。我們對 2024 年調整後 EBITDA 為 3 億美元的目標保持了良好的預期。隨著世界各地的政府和機構投資解決氣候、地緣政治和預算挑戰的解決方案，Ameresco 繼續增強我們的專業知識以提供這些解決方案，使我們能夠實現穩健、有利可圖的長期增長。最後，我們期待著歡迎分析師和機構投資者參加 5 月 11 日在倫敦舉行的歐洲投資者日。此次活動將由我們領導團隊的主要高管進行演講和小組討論，重點討論我們不斷擴大的增長機會，包括我們的計劃在歐洲繼續擴張。

Operator, we would like to open the call to questions now.

接線員，我們現在想打開問題電話。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question will come from Noah Kaye with Oppenheimer & Co.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題將來自 Oppenheimer & Co. 的 Noah Kaye。

Wonder if you could start by giving us just a bit more color on some of the timing and scheduling challenges around the RNG development. Obviously, you mentioned permitting supply chain. I don't know the degree to which you can get granular, but just your line of sight to those challenges being resolved here in the first half of the year. Anything that we should consider top of mind in terms of key milestones that you have to hit to bring those projects online.

想知道您是否可以先給我們更多關於 RNG 開發的一些時間安排挑戰的顏色。顯然，您提到了允許供應鏈。我不知道你可以細化到什麼程度，但只是你對今年上半年在這裡解決的挑戰的看法。就您必須達到的關鍵里程碑而言，我們應該首先考慮的任何事項，才能使這些項目上線。

I guess we started out with yet some difficult permitting issues. And even though in some cases, we got the environmental permit, we got stuck in the building permits. Things that would take normally a weeks, they took several months, and in one case, as much as 6 months. It was very delayed. The other thing that's helping a lot, for example, on a couple sides, we're expecting the major equipment delivery last July and August. And as it turned out, we got the delivery in late December and early February for the other one this year, for example. So what we did going forward, we scrub the schedule very, very, very carefully, and that's why we said, we will have these 3 plants completed this year. Actually, they were all mechanically completed by the middle of the year, and then the other 4 to 5 plants, a good part of them, they are in the construction or permitting or advanced development stages right now. So we built it by the bottoms up. And we never anticipated that the supply chain issues would be the [weight of the things for us]. Another example, the rainstorms in California. One of the slides, we had built the hole, we have done all kinds of excavations and so on and so forth. Everything got wiped out, we had to start basically from scratch. So I don't know if Doran, you want to add any more colors to it, but we have scrubbed the numbers very carefully in the schedule, and we have factored in our guidance, not only for this year and for the next year as well.

我想我們開始時還有一些困難的許可問題。即使在某些情況下，我們獲得了環境許可，但我們仍被困在建築許可中。通常需要幾週的事情，他們花了幾個月，在一個案例中，長達 6 個月。這是非常延遲。另一件有很大幫助的事情，例如，在兩方面，我們預計去年 7 月和 8 月將交付主要設備。事實證明，例如，我們在今年 12 月下旬和 2 月初收到了另一輛的交貨。所以我們接下來所做的，我們非常、非常、非常仔細地修改了時間表，這就是為什麼我們說，我們將在今年完成這 3 個工廠。實際上，它們在年中之前全部機械完成，然後其他 4 到 5 個工廠，其中很大一部分，它們現在處於建設或許可或後期開發階段。所以我們自下而上地構建它。而且我們從未預料到供應鏈問題會成為[對我們來說最重要的事情]。再比如，加州的暴雨。其中一張幻燈片，我們已經建造了這個洞，我們進行了各種挖掘等等。一切都被消滅了，我們不得不基本上從頭開始。所以我不知道 Doran，你是否想添加更多顏色，但我們已經非常仔細地刪除了時間表中的數字，並且我們已經考慮了我們的指導，不僅是今年和明年的指導出色地。

That's very helpful. Sticking with the theme of RNG development, as you talked about having, I think you said, 20 biogas projects in development. You said, biogas rather than RNG. I'm just wondering, with all of the policy developments that are supportive of biogas assets, some perhaps more for RNG, some perhaps more beneficial to landfill gas to electricity. Just how are you thinking now about planning and optionality for your biogas assets? I think it's pretty clear what you're expecting to bring on line this year for RNG, yes.

這很有幫助。堅持 RNG 開發的主題，正如你所說，我想你說過，有 20 個沼氣項目正在開發中。你說，沼氣而不是RNG。我只是想知道，隨著所有支持沼氣資產的政策發展，有些可能更適合 RNG，有些可能更有利於垃圾填埋氣發電。您現在如何考慮沼氣資產的規劃和可選性？我認為你很清楚今年你期望為 RNG 帶來什麼，是的。

That's a great question. Actually, when last year we had said that 5 to 6 plants, we think 1 of 2 sites -- actually, one site that was electric, we're going to convert it to renewable natural gas. We stopped that because we think the optionality now to [D3 RINs] subject to what comes through the EPA. We didn't. There was another plan that we're going to expand it and go to renewable natural gas. Now we are in the permitting stages much like we will go electric. So economics will -- the ones that we have right now that we have already equipment, the 4 that we talked -- 4 to 5, they will be renewable natural gas. As we go down the road, I think some other ones, they might turn out to be [really] landfill to electricity.

這是一個很好的問題。實際上，當去年我們說 5 到 6 個工廠時，我們認為 2 個站點中的 1 個——實際上，一個站點是電力的，我們將把它轉化為可再生天然氣。我們之所以停止這樣做，是因為我們認為現在 [D3 RIN] 的可選性受 EPA 的限制。我們沒有。還有另一個計劃，我們將擴大它並轉向可再生天然氣。現在我們正處於許可階段，就像我們將使用電動汽車一樣。所以經濟學將——我們現在擁有的那些我們已經擁有的設備，我們談到的 4 個——4 到 5 個，它們將是可再生天然氣。當我們沿著這條路走下去時，我認為其他一些，它們可能會 [真的] 成為電力的垃圾填埋場。

Our next question will come from Stephen Gengaro of Stifel.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Stifel 的 Stephen Gengaro。

I guess, 2 for me. What I'd start with, George, you mentioned some confidence on your $300 million EBITDA target, and that's a pretty steep ramp. I think it's 40% growth in '24 versus '23. Can you -- could you talk a little bit about sort of the path to get there?

我想，2對我來說。我首先要說的是，喬治，你提到了對 3 億美元 EBITDA 目標的一些信心，這是一個非常陡峭的斜坡。我認為 24 年與 23 年相比增長了 40%。你能——你能談談實現目標的途徑嗎？

Yes. I mean we look at it very, very carefully. We look at the contracted backlog, [reported] backlog. And the contribution is that we will get not only from the RNG assets, but the other assets that we place it into, whether it's solar or battery storage and so on, and we feel very comfortable. The way I look at it, though, it's a 40% jump from 2023 to 2024. But if you were to look at it from 2022 to '24, it's not that much out of line. Between the 2 years, it's 45% growth, which is 32% growth for each year. And if you go in the past, we are in a little bit lumpy business, but building it up to the '24 number, we feel very comfortable because it's basically constructed backload, awarded backlog and assets that we have a very good handle on, [including] the operation.

是的。我的意思是我們非常非常仔細地看待它。我們查看合同規定的積壓，[報告的] 積壓。貢獻是我們不僅會從 RNG 資產中獲得收益，還會從我們將其放入的其他資產中獲得收益，無論是太陽能還是電池存儲等，我們都感到非常舒服。不過，我看待它的方式是，從 2023 年到 2024 年，它增長了 40%。但如果你從 2022 年到 24 年，它並沒有那麼離譜。兩年之間，增長了45%，也就是每年增長32%。如果你回顧過去，我們的業務有點起伏不定，但將其構建到 24 年的數字，我們感到非常自在，因為它基本上是構建的後備任務、授予的積壓任務和資產，我們可以很好地處理這些問題， [包括]手術。

Great. And then the other thing I wanted to just ask about was just on the contracting side in general. It feels like things have progressed pretty well sequentially as far as your backlog is concerned. Just when you're talking to customers and given the inflationary environment and interest rates, what are the conversations like? And have there been any impediments to getting these deals across the finish line?

偉大的。然後我想問的另一件事是一般的合同方面。就您的積壓工作而言，感覺事情進展順利。就在您與客戶交談並考慮到通貨膨脹環境和利率時，談話是什麼樣的？在完成這些交易方面是否存在任何障礙？

Because of the interest rate jump, it has impacted the business and couple of the pushouts that we have, they are very large projects. I'm talking in the context between -- both of them are $150 million project. And one of them, so the federal facility, the way -- it's a good actually example to remind everybody of the process. But we did a detailed energy audit, then we negotiate the scope with the client and then the price and then we go out to get the financing. And then what happened in this instance, the financing now, we had a couple -- almost a couple of points jump in the interest rate, and [when they save it] within finance the over all of the project. So we're going back to the drawing board, renegotiate the scope of the project and so on. And so that was one of the projects. And the other one, it was a municipality, but because of the higher interest rate, they had to go out and refinance -- submit their new bid. So it's a concern, but lately, though, what's happened a little bit and that's why on my comments, I said the customers. It's hard to prioritize the projects and the timing because some of them now, they're getting money from the IRA. They're waiting to see how much they're going to get from the IRA and how will it impact them. And we have a couple of projects that we think we'll be getting a good chunk of money from the IRA, and actually, the projects will grow. But the reason, I would say, is a little bit of wait and see until everything comes out. But the activity though, the request, the activity, the pipeline is growing a lot. That's why we feel very comfortable for the businesses going forward.

由於利率上升，它影響了我們的業務和我們的一些推出，它們是非常大的項目。我說的是兩者之間的上下文——它們都是 1.5 億美元的項目。其中之一，所以聯邦設施，方式 - 這是一個很好的實際例子來提醒每個人這個過程。但我們做了詳細的能源審計，然後我們與客戶協商範圍和價格，然後我們出去獲得融資。然後在這種情況下發生的事情，現在的融資，我們有幾個 - 利率幾乎上升了幾個點，並且 [當他們保存它時] 在整個項目的融資範圍內。所以我們要回到繪圖板，重新協商項目的範圍等等。這就是其中一個項目。另一個是市政當局，但由於利率較高，他們不得不出去再融資——提交新的投標。所以這是一個問題，但最近發生了一些事情，這就是為什麼在我的評論中，我說客戶。很難確定項目的優先級和時間安排，因為其中一些現在正在從 IRA 那裡獲得資金。他們等著看他們將從愛爾蘭共和軍那裡得到多少以及這將如何影響他們。我們有幾個項目，我們認為我們將從愛爾蘭共和軍那裡得到一大筆錢，實際上，這些項目將會增長。但我想說，原因是要等到一切都出來再看。但是活動，請求，活動，管道正在增長很多。這就是為什麼我們對未來的業務感到非常滿意。

Our next question will come from Greg Wasikowski of Webber Research & Advisory LLC.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Webber Research & Advisory LLC 的 Greg Wasikowski。

I wanted to ask about Energos. Could you just talk about the origination of that relationship? Was Italy a market that you were actively targeting before this? Does it make it easier to expand into additional territories, thinking like France, Spain, Portugal, those areas? And does the business help with any other existing operations that you have in Europe? Kind of thinking probably more like Greece, but just trying to understand any synergies there.

我想問一下 Energos。你能談談這種關係的起源嗎？在此之前，意大利是您積極瞄準的市場嗎？是否更容易擴展到其他地區，比如法國、西班牙、葡萄牙等地區？該業務是否有助於您在歐洲擁有的任何其他現有業務？有點像希臘的想法，但只是想了解那裡的任何協同作用。

That's a very good question. You might recall that we have targeted Italy as one of the countries that we wanted to expand. So what we had was basically an internal intensive effort market view that we did in identifying potential companies that we might want to acquire, and we approached this particular company and then people made the arrangements that they would make a Zoom call and meet the management of the team and so on. And then we had a good meeting, then I went over there, we met with them and then the whole team went over there.

這是一個很好的問題。您可能還記得，我們已將意大利作為我們想要擴展的國家之一。因此，我們所做的基本上是內部密集努力的市場觀點，我們在確定我們可能想要收購的潛在公司時所做的，我們接觸了這家特定的公司，然後人們做出安排，他們將撥打 Zoom 電話並會見管理層團隊等等。然後我們開了一個很好的會議，然後我去了那裡，我們會見了他們，然後整個團隊都去了那裡。

And they are very, very, very similar to what we are doing. Basically, it's an energy services company, and they are more focused actually almost exclusively on the C&I customer. They may ask them, I said, "Why are you focused on in the C&I?" Because the government entities in Europe, finally, they're beginning to get their act together trying to do something. But the C&I cases because of the higher cost, of course, what happened in Europe, they are very conscientious about it, and we have a good program that's going to help them. So it's a very good company that we are very excited about.

它們與我們正在做的非常、非常、非常相似。基本上，它是一家能源服務公司，他們實際上更專注於 C&I 客戶。他們可能會問他們，我說，“你為什麼專注於C&I？”因為歐洲的政府實體，終於，他們開始齊心協力做一些事情。但是 C&I 案件由於成本較高，當然，在歐洲發生的事情，他們對此非常認真，我們有一個很好的計劃可以幫助他們。所以這是一家非常好的公司，我們對此感到非常興奮。

And we have been doing some other work in Italy with some other [potential] partners that we have in that area -- and we have some very good traction through those companies. So this one gives us a solid, solid foundation. And what we like most about this company, tremendous, world-class management team. And even though it's a small company, it operates like a large company, and it could probably serve as a pretty good platform for us in Europe. And it's not a great secret, we are looking for other companies, and we don't have anything to talk about it right now, but don't be surprised that we might have something else to announce in the near future.

我們一直在意大利與我們在該領域擁有的其他一些 [潛在] 合作夥伴一起做一些其他工作 - 我們通過這些公司獲得了一些非常好的牽引力。所以這個給了我們一個堅實的基礎。我們最喜歡這家公司的地方是，龐大的世界級管理團隊。儘管它是一家小公司，但它的運作方式卻像一家大公司，它可能會成為我們在歐洲的一個很好的平台。這不是什麼大秘密，我們正在尋找其他公司，我們現在沒有什麼可談的，但不要感到驚訝，我們可能會在不久的將來宣布其他事情。

Got it. Okay. And I know you guys can't think too much about numbers, but worth asking if you think -- or if you expect this to be accretive on an EBITDA or earnings perspective in 2023? And if it's at stake to the guidance.

知道了。好的。而且我知道你們不能對數字考慮太多，但值得一問的是，您是否認為——或者您是否期望這會在 2023 年的 EBITDA 或收益方面有所增長？如果它與指導有關。

For 2023, by the time we close the deal and so on, it will be slightly accretive, but it's not going to -- it's included in our guidance now.

到 2023 年，到我們完成交易等時，它會略有增加，但不會——它現在包含在我們的指導中。

Our next question will come from George Gianarikas of Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

So last quarter, Doran, you spent some time discussing interest rate exposure. First, with regards to how it impacts your capital stack and then how it impacts projects and asset deployment. Can you just kind of go over that again and just remind us exactly how rates are impacting your business and your balance sheet?

所以上個季度，多蘭，你花了一些時間討論利率風險。首先，關於它如何影響您的資本堆棧，然後是它如何影響項目和資產部署。您能否再回顧一下，並準確地提醒我們利率是如何影響您的業務和資產負債表的？

Yes. Sure, George. Thanks for the question. I mean I think what I'll start with is, broadly speaking, we -- we'll talk about the SCE piece in a second, but the financing we do on our energy assets is long term. So we're talking about looking at the longer end of the curve for purposes of interest rate exposure. And as I think you guys have seen, despite maybe some recent volatility, the overall shifts there haven't been nearest impactful as what you've seen on the short end of the curve. So that's kind of point 1. We did talk a little bit about the high end interest expense on the SoCal Ed pushouts. I think it's important for folks to kind of recognize that, that's an element that we have the ability to include in the overall settlement of costs related to that change. So we'll continue to monitor that, and we're, as you might expect, doing all the calculations and ensuring that, that information is front and center from the perspective of those discussions. I guess the last piece is just kind of looking at the overall short-term debt. And I think that beyond the working capital required for SCE, we're expecting all of that to normalize so that our interest rate exposure on anything related to SOFR or short-term unhedged rates should be much more muted as we get through the rest of the year, in particular because despite the fact that we do invest some of our capital in construction and development of assets, our ability to hit nonrecourse financing like the large R&D refinancing transaction that we did in Q4 is still there. That lender market hasn't loosened up. We're still able to get great tax equity financing using sale leasebacks, and we don't expect the overall impact to be long term.

是的。當然，喬治。謝謝你的問題。我的意思是我認為我首先要說的是，從廣義上講，我們 - 我們將在一秒鐘內討論 SCE 部分，但我們對能源資產進行的融資是長期的。因此，我們正在談論為了利率敞口的目的而查看曲線的較長端。正如我認為你們已經看到的那樣，儘管最近可能出現了一些波動，但那裡的整體變化並沒有像你們在曲線的短端看到的那樣產生最近的影響。這就是第 1 點。我們確實談到了 SoCal Ed 推出的高端利息支出。我認為人們必須認識到這一點很重要，這是我們有能力將其納入與該變更相關的總體成本結算中的一個要素。因此，我們將繼續對此進行監控，並且正如您所期望的那樣，我們會進行所有計算並確保從這些討論的角度來看，該信息處於前沿和中心位置。我想最後一塊只是在看整體短期債務。而且我認為，除了 SCE 所需的營運資金外，我們預計所有這些都會正常化，以便我們在度過餘下的時間時，與 SOFR 或短期未對沖利率相關的任何利率風險敞口應該更加溫和這一年，特別是因為儘管我們確實將部分資本投資於資產的建設和開發，但我們仍然有能力進行無追索權融資，例如我們在第四季度進行的大型研發再融資交易。貸款市場並未放鬆。我們仍然能夠使用售後回租獲得大量稅收股權融資，我們預計整體影響不會是長期的。

And then just as a follow-up. You talked a lot about scrubbing permits and other potential delays in your '23 and '24 EBITDA guidance. Can you also help us understand much as -- much ink is dedicated to discussing and trying to analyze movement in RIN pricing. And I'm wondering as to if you can help us kind of understand what your -- how much exposure you have there, and how much we should be monitoring that and potentially handicapping your '23 and '24 EBITDA guidance based on volatility in that index?

然後作為後續行動。您在 23 和 24 年的 EBITDA 指南中談到了很多關於清理許可證和其他潛在延遲的問題。您是否也可以幫助我們了解——很多墨水都致力於討論和嘗試分析 RIN 定價的變動。而且我想知道您是否可以幫助我們了解您的 - 您在那裡有多少敞口，以及我們應該監控多少，並可能根據其中的波動性阻礙您的 23 和 24 年 EBITDA 指導指數？

Well, you know that 50% of the RINs that we plan to generate for the year, that they are hedged. So the other 50%, we are on the market, and we sell them as when we feel the market is right. And we have incorporated the prices that we think we will be able to get in our guidance right now. Add anything to that?

好吧，你知道我們計劃在今年生成的 RIN 中有 50% 是對沖的。所以剩下的 50%，我們在市場上，當我們覺得市場合適的時候就賣掉它們。我們已經將我們認為我們現在能夠獲得的價格納入我們的指導。添加什麼？

I mean, I think as you as you might expect, we're heavily engaged in following what's happening with the EPA and what adjustments will be made. And we have, just like you, our eyes on the summer as to what will happen when they finalize the RVO , but we do feel confident in where we've kind of established our estimates for the year based on the unhedged portion at least.

我的意思是，我認為正如您所期望的那樣，我們正在積極關注 EPA 的情況以及將進行哪些調整。和你一樣，我們也關注夏天，當他們最終確定 RVO 時會發生什麼，但我們確實對我們至少基於未對沖部分確定今年的估計充滿信心。

Our next question will come from Eric Stine of Craig-Hallum.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

Maybe we can just go back to the 2024 EBITDA outlook and great that you reiterated that, but just want to -- just be clear. So if you're thinking about backlog awards not yet signed plus the operating assets that you've not yet contracted, when you take that all together, is this something where you feel like you've got -- or what is your percentage visibility into that number from all of those buckets? I mean are you -- is it a high level of confidence? Is there stuff that you still need to fill in? Or how should we think about that when looking at '24?

也許我們可以回到 2024 年的 EBITDA 前景，很高興你重申了這一點，但只是想——說清楚。因此，如果您正在考慮尚未簽署的積壓訂單加上您尚未簽訂合同的運營資產，當您將所有這些放在一起時，這是您覺得自己擁有的東西 - 或者您的可見度百分比是多少從所有這些桶中進入那個數字？我的意思是你 - 這是高度自信嗎？是否還有需要填寫的內容？或者我們在看 24 年時應該如何考慮？

I would say, it's a very high level of confidence because when Mark does his numbers, unless we are at the 70%, 80%, whatever he sees in the pipeline, he takes it out pretty much. No, we feel pretty good. Can something happen that certainly on our control? It's possible, but we feel pretty good that we'll be able to deliver that number. Because when we established that number way back, I think we were a little bit conservative. We have a little bit, you might say, in the bag. And so that's why even though we had some things happen to us, [last note we still stand] and we feel good about.

我會說，這是一個非常高的信心，因為當馬克計算他的數字時，除非我們處於 70%、80%，無論他在管道中看到什麼，他都會把它拿出來。不，我們感覺很好。一定會發生我們可以控制的事情嗎？這是可能的，但我們很高興能夠提供這個數字。因為當我們很久以前確定這個數字時，我認為我們有點保守。我們有一點，你可能會說，在袋子裡。所以這就是為什麼即使我們發生了一些事情，[我們仍然堅持最後一個音符]並且我們感覺良好。

Got it. That is great color. And then I guess last one for me. Just on the SoCal Edison project, I don't know if you're willing to discuss how much of that project is left, but I guess more interested in you mentioned that as a result of that, you've got a growing number of projects in your pipeline. So maybe some color around those projects, maybe not as big as SoCal Edison, but big nonetheless.

知道了。那是很棒的顏色。然後我想最後一個對我來說。就南加州愛迪生項目而言，我不知道你是否願意討論該項目還剩下多少，但我想你更感興趣的是提到因此，你有越來越多的您管道中的項目。因此，也許這些項目周圍有一些顏色，也許不如南加州愛迪生公司那麼大，但仍然很大。

Let me -- I'll start by just saying that on the proposal front, they're definitely coming in large and small. As you know, it's a competitive market. We feel like we're very, very well placed to win a good number of those projects. There is a mix of some of these projects that are going to be assets on our balance sheet as well as straight construction contracts like we did for SoCal Ed for other utilities or other types of asset owners. And from a sizing perspective, maybe don't see any single one that's quite the size of SoCal Ed, but when you add them all up together, they're certainly in excess of what SoCal Ed is when you look at the proposal activity. So I think there's more to come there. We'll talk about them as they get into the awarded backlog, but I think we're definitely seeing a move toward being pulled into discussions about some of those design build projects that we're really, really excited about.

讓我 - 我首先要說的是，在提案方面，他們肯定會大大小小的。如您所知，這是一個競爭激烈的市場。我們覺得我們非常非常有能力贏得大量這樣的項目。其中一些項目將成為我們資產負債表上的資產，以及像我們為 SoCal Ed 為其他公用事業或其他類型的資產所有者所做的直接建築合同。從規模的角度來看，也許看不到任何一個與 SoCal Ed 相當的規模，但當你將它們加在一起時，它們肯定超過了 SoCal Ed 在你查看提案活動時的規模。所以我認為還有更多的事情要做。我們將在他們進入授予的積壓工作時討論它們，但我認為我們肯定會看到一種趨勢，即被拉入討論我們真正非常興奮的一些設計構建項目。

For SCE itself, we -- probably 90-plus percent -- 95% complete by the end of 2022. So we're, from a practical perspective, focusing on grid integration and getting to substantial completion, as we said, before the summer.

對於 SCE 本身，到 2022 年底，我們 - 可能超過 90% - 95% 完成。因此，從實際的角度來看，我們專注於電網整合，並在夏季之前實現實質性完成，正如我們所說.

Our next question will come from Christopher Souther of B. Riley.

我們的下一個問題將來自 B. Riley 的 Christopher Souther。

Maybe just a follow-up on the Energos. Do they have projects on the balance sheet that you're acquiring? Or is this more of a projects business? I'm curious if that kind of evolves over time where you'd be owning assets over there as well. And then can you talk through just from a market-by-market perspective, what other [market the ones] were acquisition to kind of gain foothold is most helpful?

也許只是 Energos 的後續行動。他們的資產負債表上是否有您要收購的項目？或者這更像是一個項目業務？我很好奇這種情況是否會隨著時間的推移而演變，你也會在那裡擁有資產。然後，您能否僅從逐個市場的角度來談談，收購其他哪些 [market the ones] 以獲得立足點最有幫助？

Yes. We do not have any assets on their balance sheet right now. But basically, let's say, a solar plant and some of the marquee customers that they have, they've got them. And then they have a conduit that buys those projects out. Also they look on their balance sheet as a design-built projects. And they do very little O&M. That's why we think that there's tremendous potential for us to expand the O&M business. And at the end of the day, we might take some of the assets on our balance sheet as well. And I think with us bringing some more additional financing and management and marketing capabilities, I say we can accelerate the growth of this particular business.

是的。我們現在在他們的資產負債表上沒有任何資產。但基本上，比如說，一個太陽能發電廠和他們擁有的一些重要客戶，他們已經擁有了。然後他們有一個渠道可以買斷這些項目。他們還將資產負債表視為設計建造的項目。他們做的運維很少。這就是為什麼我們認為我們有巨大的潛力來擴展 O&M 業務。在一天結束時，我們也可能會在資產負債表上拿走一些資產。而且我認為，隨著我們帶來更多額外的融資、管理和營銷能力，我說我們可以加速這一特定業務的增長。

And some of the other companies that we are looking in Europe, they are similar, similar companies. Because in Europe, what has happened with the energy prices being where they are, especially some of these distributed generation for the commercial and industrial customers. And now it's beginning the institutional accounts of the governments of the cities and towns, the market is picking up. And I think, for us, we developed a good management team in this particular company. I think we can grow it.

我們在歐洲尋找的其他一些公司，它們是類似的公司。因為在歐洲，能源價格發生了什麼變化，尤其是為商業和工業客戶提供的一些分佈式發電。現在開始了城鎮政府的機構賬戶，市場正在回暖。而且我認為，對我們來說，我們在這家特定的公司開發了一支優秀的管理團隊。我想我們可以種植它。

And I think if you look at the landscape over there, having gone outwards and found this company, kind of no banker process here, this is kind of the outreach that we're doing is, we're looking to expand our own business across the region. There aren't any particular geographies that are -- where we're focusing 100% of our time. We're being opportunistic. We're finding the opportunities where businesses like Energos can be kind of tucked in. I think the -- you've seen the expansion of our activities in Greece. We certainly like Italy. We're not going to go into markets where we're not going to be able to compete. I think it's -- again, it's opportunistic, and we think there's certainly some -- going to be some more opportunity out there for us.

我想如果你看看那邊的風景，向外走，發現這家公司，這裡沒有銀行家流程，這就是我們正在做的外展活動，我們正在尋求擴大我們自己的業務該區域。沒有任何特定的地理位置——我們 100% 的時間都集中在那裡。我們正在投機取巧。我們正在尋找像 Energos 這樣的企業可以參與的機會。我認為 - 你已經看到了我們在希臘的活動擴展。我們當然喜歡意大利。我們不會進入我們無法競爭的市場。我認為這是 - 再一次，這是機會主義的，我們認為肯定有一些 - 將為我們提供更多機會。

Got it. No, that's very helpful. And then maybe just on the SCE progress. I think you had called out $35 million last quarter that you expected to be 2023 revenue, but I want to kind of focus on -- it looks like the costs and estimated earnings in excess of billings came down again. I wanted to get a sense of timing around payments if we have a sense of when that starts to look like a more normal number again, if you have any visibility on that?

知道了。不，這非常有幫助。然後可能只是關於 SCE 的進展。我想你上個季度已經撥出 3500 萬美元，你預計 2023 年的收入，但我想把重點放在——看起來成本和估計收入超過賬單的收入再次下降。如果我們知道什麼時候開始看起來更像一個更正常的數字，我想了解付款的時間安排，如果您對此有任何了解？

I mean from an unbilled perspective, you're talking about more or less the bulk of it is when on substantial completion.

我的意思是，從未開票的角度來看，您或多或少地談論的大部分是在實質性完成時。

That's right.

這是正確的。

Yes. So we -- as we said, timing-wise, we're looking to complete these projects by the summer. I think that's kind of when you'd see the invoices start going.

是的。所以我們 - 正如我們所說，在時間方面，我們希望在夏天之前完成這些項目。我認為那是您看到發票開始的時候。

Okay. Great. And then maybe just last one. Of the 80 to 100 megawatt equivalent additions for this year, can you give a mix between solar, batteries and RNG? And then any sense of the cadence would be helpful there, and then I'll hop in.

好的。偉大的。然後也許只是最後一個。在今年增加的 80 到 100 兆瓦當量中，您能否混合使用太陽能、電池和 RNG？然後任何節奏感都會在那裡有所幫助，然後我會跳進去。

I think we're looking at -- so sorry, give me a second to get the numbers. So we think, out of that, the RNG, we're talking about 22 megawatts out of that 80 to 100. And the rest of it is a mix between solar and battery.

我想我們正在研究——很抱歉，請稍等一下以獲取數字。所以我們認為，在 RNG 之外，我們談論的是 80 到 100 中的 22 兆瓦。其餘部分是太陽能和電池的混合。

Next question will come from Tim Mulrooney of William Blair.

下一個問題將來自 William Blair 的 Tim Mulrooney。

So apologies for the overly simplistic question. But I had in my notes that you expected to complete one RNG plant in 2021, 3 in 2022 and 5 to 6 in 2023. But today, I think you said 3 in '23 and 5 to 6 in 2024. So did the whole RNG completion timeline essentially get pushed out by a year? Or were my notes incorrect?

對於過於簡單的問題，我們深表歉意。但我在筆記中提到，您預計在 2021 年完成一個 RNG 工廠，在 2022 年完成 3 個，在 2023 年完成 5 到 6 個。但今天，我想你說的是 23 年的 3 個和 2024 年的 5 到 6 個。整個 RNG 也是如此完成時間表基本上被推遲了一年？還是我的筆記有誤？

The 1 in '21, that was in '21, '22 -- that came in. it was mechanically complete in '21. And the ones in '22, there were 3, you got correct. And then there were 5 to 6 going beyond that. The delay -- the actual delay is between 4 to 8 months on -- between the 3 and the 5 to 6. But the 5 to 6 became 4 to 5 because actually 2 plants that we originally were contemplating to go to renewable natural gas and because they were conversions, now we're going to -- we stopped doing any work on them because we will most likely keep them [D3 RINs]. So I would say, 6 to -- 4 to 8 months delay.

21 年的 1，21 年和 22 年的那個——進來了。它在 21 年機械地完成了。而 22 年的那些，有 3 個，你是對的。然後還有 5 到 6 個超出了這個範圍。延遲——實際延遲在 4 到 8 個月之間——在 3 和 5 到 6 之間。但是 5 到 6 變成了 4 到 5，因為實際上我們最初考慮的 2 家工廠轉向可再生天然氣和因為它們是轉換，現在我們要——我們停止對它們做任何工作，因為我們很可能會保留它們 [D3 RIN]。所以我會說，延遲 6 到 - 4 到 8 個月。

Got it. And you talked about -- for my second question, you talked about that 20% -- essentially 20% EBITDA CAGR between 2022 and 2024. And I understand, given the timing of projects and such that the 2-year timeframe is probably a better way to look at things. But stepping back and thinking about that 2-year timeframe, how should we think about how much of that growth is coming from projects versus EBITDA coming in from some of your energy operating assets?

知道了。你談到了——關於我的第二個問題，你談到了 20%——基本上是 2022 年到 2024 年之間 20% 的 EBITDA CAGR。我理解，考慮到項目的時間安排，2 年的時間框架可能更好看待事物的方式。但退後一步，想想這 2 年的時間框架，我們應該如何考慮增長中有多少來自項目，而 EBITDA 來自您的一些能源運營資產？

Yes. I think the project business is a [constant rate] that's going to grow even -- 10 to 12 to 13 CAGR, if you were to take it from '21 going forward rather than taking it from last year to go forward. And the rest of that comes from the asset and the O&M. The O&M is growing very well, and the other business, the [contribution is going fast] as well.

是的。我認為項目業務是一個 [恆定速率]，它甚至會增長——複合年增長率為 10 到 12 到 13，如果你從 21 年開始而不是從去年開始向前發展。其餘部分來自資產和 O&M。 O&M 增長非常好，其他業務 [貢獻正在快速增長] 也是如此。

Our next question will come from Kashy Harrison of Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Piper Sandler 的 Kashy Harrison。

So I guess I just wanted to -- just a quick question on the 1Q guide. $230 million of revenues implies a pretty big ramp into 2Q, 3Q and 4Q to get to the full year guide of $1.5 billion. I think you indicated there are some pushouts behind the soft Q1, but can you maybe share some more details on what exactly gives you the confidence in that big recovery as we think about 2Q, 3Q, 4Q? And then maybe just share some color on how much of the revenue guide is already secured by the 12-month projects and O&M backlog?

所以我想我只是想 - 只是關於 1Q 指南的一個快速問題。 2.3 億美元的收入意味著第二季度、第三季度和第四季度將有相當大的增長，以達到 15 億美元的全年指導。我認為您表示第一季度疲軟背後有一些推動因素，但您能否分享更多細節，說明在我們考慮第二季度、第三季度和第四季度時，究竟是什麼讓您對大復蘇充滿信心？然後也許只是分享一些顏色，說明 12 個月的項目和 O&M 積壓已經確保了多少收入指南？

Yes. Yes, this is Mark. So I think, again, as we've talked about before, our confidence in anything that we guide comes from the visibility that we have from the backlog. On the project side, so we have better than 80% of the project revenues coming from -- are either contracted or awarded. And then from a total revenue perspective, more than 70% is coming from what we consider contracted sources. So I think we have really good visibility in terms of how that will -- how we're able to achieve that ramp throughout the end of the year. There's always some amount that's going to come from pipeline, but again, I think we have decent line of sight to what those opportunities are going to be. So we're going to be able to fill that in between Q1 and the end of the year.

是的。是的，這是馬克。所以我再次認為，正如我們之前談到的那樣，我們對我們指導的任何事情的信心都來自我們從積壓中獲得的可見性。在項目方面，我們有超過 80% 的項目收入來自合同或授予。然後從總收入的角度來看，超過 70% 來自我們認為的合同來源。所以我認為我們在這方面有很好的可見性——我們如何能夠在今年年底實現這一目標。總有一些來自管道，但我認為我們對這些機會將是什麼有很好的看法。因此，我們將能夠在第一季度和年底之間填補這一空缺。

Helpful. And then as my follow-up, just a quick question on cash flows. So 2022 adjusted cash flow from ops was $100 million use of cash. I'd imagine that was driven by the Edison project. So with the billings looking to go out in the summer of the year, I was wondering if you could just maybe give us some color on how you're thinking about adjusted cash flow from ops in '23 based on the midpoint of your guidance?

有幫助。然後作為我的後續行動，只是一個關於現金流量的快速問題。因此，2022 年調整後的運營現金流為 1 億美元的現金使用。我想這是由愛迪生項目推動的。因此，隨著賬單有望在今年夏天發出，我想知道你是否可以根據你的指導中點，給我們一些關於你如何考慮 23 年運營調整後現金流量的顏色？

I mean, we haven't generally guided to that. But as Doran was saying, we expect to wrap these projects up by the summer, and a lot of that is tied up right now in the unbilled revenue. Everything to date that we have been able to build contractually, we have been paid for. So we would expect those cash flows to come in soon after the projects are completed, which I think should directionally should point to a much improved adjusted cash from ops number.

我的意思是，我們通常沒有指導這一點。但正如 Doran 所說，我們希望在夏天之前完成這些項目，其中很多現在都與未開票收入掛鉤。迄今為止，我們能夠通過合同建造的所有東西，我們都已經支付了費用。因此，我們預計這些現金流量將在項目完成後很快出現，我認為這應該在方向上表明來自 ops 數量的調整後現金大幅改善。

Yes. I mean there's -- as we talked about substantial completion being the next important building point, so depending on when we -- if we can get the weather to continue to cooperate in California, we wrap these projects up. I think with the payment terms, you might see some of the cash flow actually coming in beginning Q3, depending on when the bills go out. So I can't say that it would be a specific quarter here, but that's the timeframe we're talking about when you'll see that kind of turn around.

是的。我的意思是——當我們談到實質性完成是下一個重要的建設點時，所以取決於我們什麼時候——如果我們能得到天氣繼續在加州合作，我們就會結束這些項目。我認為根據付款條件，您可能會在第三季度開始時實際看到一些現金流，具體取決於賬單何時發出。所以我不能說這將是一個特定的季度，但這就是我們談論的時間框架，你會看到這種轉變。

Our next question will come from Joseph Osha of Guggenheim Partners.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Guggenheim Partners 的 Joseph Osha。

Following on what Kashy was asking, I'm wondering as we think about that EBITDA run rate, which obviously comes out of 2023 at a considerably higher year -- rate than it goes in, is this just a straightforward cost absorption? Are there some mix shifts on a quarter-by-quarter basis in terms of the revenue mix that we should think about? I just -- I want to understand what the walk from Q1 to Q4 EBITDA looks like.

按照 Kashy 的要求，當我們考慮 EBITDA 運行率時，我想知道 2023 年的 EBITDA 運行率顯然比現在要高得多，這是否只是一個簡單的成本吸收？就我們應該考慮的收入組合而言，是否每個季度都有一些組合變化？我只是——我想了解從第一季度到第四季度 EBITDA 的變化情況。

I don't know that we have anything really granular to share with you there, Joe. The pushouts that George talked about where we've kind of going back and are recalculating some things and we're expecting contract signing, some of those larger projects carried with them a good amount of costs in preparation for signing. So we get a little bit of revenue charge once the contracts get signed. And this is where having pushouts that go not just from one quarter to the next, but maybe 1 quarter to 2 quarters later. We're seeing a little bit of that here and that kind of explains some of that ramp, and especially as you start to work on full execution in those projects in the latter half of the year. I don't think there's anything really meaningful to share as far as mix, though. For the balance of the year, again, we we've got our typical seasonality where we're going to see the ramp-up over the course of the year just kind of progressively going from the Q1 up to what we expect to be a more back-ended Q3 and Q4.

喬，我不知道我們有什麼真正精細的東西可以與你分享。 George 談到我們已經回去的地方並正在重新計算一些事情的推出，我們期待合同簽署，其中一些較大的項目為準備簽署帶來了大量成本。因此，一旦簽訂合同，我們就會收取一些收入費用。這就是推出不僅從一個季度到下一個季度，而且可能在 1 個季度到 2 個季度之後推出的地方。我們在這裡看到了一些，這在某種程度上解釋了這種增長，尤其是當你在今年下半年開始全面執行這些項目時。不過，我認為就混合而言，沒有什麼真正有意義的東西可以分享。對於今年餘下的時間，我們再次遇到了典型的季節性，我們將看到一年中的增長從第一季度逐漸上升到我們預期的水平更多後端 Q3 和 Q4。

Yes. And what I might add that compounded some of the projects that I said they got delayed, which happens to say, you lose 3 months on a particular project, especially the large ones. And then it takes you a couple of months to mobilize, and that's why I made the statement we go to 2 quarters. It takes time to -- for those projects not only to get signed, but then to mobilize and then see some revenues -- real revenues coming through in the construction side.

是的。我可能要補充的是，我說的一些項目被推遲了，這恰好是說，你在一個特定項目上損失了 3 個月的時間，尤其是大型項目。然後你需要幾個月的時間來動員，這就是為什麼我聲明我們將進入 2 個季度。這需要時間——對於這些項目來說，不僅要簽署，還要動員起來，然後看到一些收入——真正的收入來自建築方面。

Okay. And as a follow-up, obviously, you've got some additional storage projects in the backlog that we've been talking about. I'm wondering what you all feel like the lessons learned are from SCE and how that's changed your approach to how you source sales for future projects? How you contract? How are you going to come with this next round of storage products -- projects differently to hopefully maybe avoid replaying what's happened with SCE?

好的。作為後續行動，很明顯，我們一直在談論的積壓工作中還有一些額外的存儲項目。我想知道你們都覺得從 SCE 中吸取的教訓是什麼，這如何改變了你們為未來項目尋找銷售來源的方法？你怎麼簽約？您打算如何使用下一輪存儲產品——以不同的方式進行項目，以希望避免重演 SCE 發生的事情？

I'll start with the -- we think that was actually a really well-done contract. The lessons that we learned [that to it] -- well, how well are you prepared for a force majeure event? How well are you prepared for supply chains to be shut down in Shanghai or shipping, et cetera. So I think that's what's been causing us the most of the delays. As we talked about the other delays associated with this is related to SoCal's desire to have those projects go into great sync in 2023. So one of the -- well, I'll call it a lesson learned, but it's actually an important thing that we've got to carry through to our future projects is, there is no -- while there's no -- there's nothing more valuable than having a very solid, open and honest relationship with your customer. I mean that's a theme that this company follows with a lot of projects, but our relationship with SoCal Ed has been open and honest from the beginning. We have continuous high-level executive meetings. I think that, that's of critical importance. So when we are approaching new proposals, new opportunities, that's one of the important pieces of the puzzle is to ensure that some of us on the executive management team get involved early on, get to know the management teams at our counterparties and our suppliers to ensure that we can manage a smooth process for what sometimes can be large projects. So at the end of the day, we feel really great about the project that we've built. We feel like it's adding a lot to our resume, and I think we're spending a lot of time looking at the way that was executed and using the resources that are working on those projects and that worked on the contracting on all of the proposals that we're working on going forward, to ensure that there's a mind share with respect to the way we approach the new projects.

我將從 - 我們認為這實際上是一份做得很好的合同開始。我們吸取的教訓 [that to it] - 好吧，你對不可抗力事件的準備情況如何？您對上海或航運等供應鏈關閉的準備情況如何？所以我認為這是導致我們大部分延誤的原因。當我們談到與此相關的其他延遲時，與 SoCal 希望在 2023 年讓這些項目同步進行的願望有關。所以其中之一 - 好吧，我稱之為經驗教訓，但這實際上是一件重要的事情我們必須貫徹到我們未來的項目是，沒有——雖然沒有——沒有什麼比與客戶建立非常穩固、開放和誠實的關係更有價值的了。我的意思是，這家公司的很多項目都遵循這個主題，但我們與 SoCal Ed 的關係從一開始就是公開和誠實的。我們連續舉行高層管理會議。我認為那是至關重要的。因此，當我們處理新提案、新機會時，難題的重要部分之一是確保我們執行管理團隊中的一些人儘早參與進來，了解我們交易對手和供應商的管理團隊，以確保我們可以管理有時可能是大型項目的順利流程。所以在一天結束的時候，我們對我們已經建立的項目感覺非常好。我們覺得這給我們的簡歷增加了很多，我認為我們花了很多時間來研究執行的方式和使用在這些項目上工作的資源，以及在所有提案的合同上工作的資源我們正在努力向前發展，以確保在我們處理新項目的方式上有共識。

I'm sorry, I may add, and that's why I said in my opening remarks that we have become a company to go to, and we are working on several projects right now along those lines similar to the Southern California subcontract. And you might recall, when we signed a contract in September in 2021, everybody thought we were coming out of the COVID-19 situation, but then we ended up going back into it. And we have the supply chain issues that basically, we executed that project, what I call an unprecedented situation. I think we did pretty well.

對不起，我可以補充一下，這就是為什麼我在開場白中說我們已經成為一家公司，我們現在正在按照類似於南加州分包合同的方式開展幾個項目。你可能還記得，當我們在 2021 年 9 月簽署合同時，每個人都認為我們正在擺脫 COVID-19 的局面，但後來我們又回到了過去。我們有供應鏈問題，基本上，我們執行了那個項目，我稱之為前所未有的情況。我認為我們做得很好。

Our next question will come from Chip Moore of EF Hutton Group.

我們的下一個問題將來自 EF Hutton Group 的 Chip Moore。

Wanted to ask a question on visibility as it relates to IRA. When do you think customers maybe get better clarity on potential funding opportunities? And then how do you sort of in-cap risks for any pushouts there or potential for acceleration?

想問一個關於 IRA 可見性的問題。您認為客戶什麼時候可以更清楚地了解潛在的融資機會？然後，您如何對那裡的任何推出或加速的潛力進行風險排序？

I don't know that I would necessarily frame it in the context of pushouts or acceleration. I think as the treasury guidance comes out, it seems like our customers and their advisers are kind of waiting with bated breath. As soon as the guidance comes out, they jump on it and they're immediately in contact with us about, okay, what do we do next? They do seem eager, but it is out of all of our control collectively, the pace with which the government will actually issue guidance. And we had a totally -- the same day the treasury came out with the guidance on low-income communities, the clients were e-mailing us, okay, ready to go. Here we go. This is the project and this is where we think it's going to apply and so on and so forth. But we're -- so I think that's going to be an interesting dynamic as the guidance comes out. There's likely to be some scrambling, but I think as George talked about a number of times and we also need to be realistic about execution timetables with our customers and ensure that once we have certainty on structure supported by the IRA that we have time to pursue execution, procure equipment, et cetera.

我不知道我是否一定會在推出或加速的背景下構建它。我認為隨著財政部指導意見的出台，我們的客戶和他們的顧問似乎都在屏息等待。指南一出，他們就馬上接受，並立即與我們聯繫，好吧，我們接下來要做什麼？他們看起來確實很急切，但我們無法共同控制政府實際發布指導的速度。我們完全——就在財政部發布低收入社區指南的同一天，客戶給我們發了電子郵件，好吧，準備好了。開始了。這就是項目，這就是我們認為它將應用的地方等等。但是我們 - 所以我認為隨著指南的出台，這將是一個有趣的動態。可能會有一些混亂，但我認為正如 George 多次談到的那樣，我們還需要對客戶的執行時間表持現實態度，並確保一旦我們確定了 IRA 支持的結構，我們就有時間去追求執行、採購設備等。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Our next question will come from Pavel Molchanov of Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Raymond James 的 Pavel Molchanov。

You've been asked several times about higher interest rates. I'd like you to also talk about higher utility rates and how that's affecting both the efficiency side of the business and your solar power plant development?

您已多次被問及有關更高利率的問題。我還希望您談談更高的公用事業費率，以及這如何影響企業的效率和太陽能發電廠的發展？

The higher interest rates, that's why it's on any project that we underwrite, let's say, solar or whatever the asset we might own ourselves, we take into account the new interest rates. And of course, on the performance contracts and that's why that goes on what I said earlier on that contract, we had to go back and renegotiate the baseline energy prices. We use the current prices rather than the old one, and that's what made that project spend allowed, even though it's a higher interest rates. But they do impact us, no question about it. But on the other hand, though, because the energy prices have gone up, it gets neutralized with the performance contract. And on the assets we own, we take that into account. So we go out, we shop, and we see what the long-term rates would be, and the long-term rates haven't gone up as much as the short-term rate, but the short-term rates impact us on the working capital that we use on the line.

更高的利率，這就是為什麼我們承保的任何項目，比方說，太陽能或我們可能擁有的任何資產，我們都會考慮新的利率。當然，在績效合同上，這就是我之前在合同中所說的原因，我們不得不回去重新談判基準能源價格。我們使用當前價格而不是舊價格，這就是允許該項目支出的原因，即使它的利率更高。但它們確實影響了我們，這是毫無疑問的。但另一方面，由於能源價格上漲，它被績效合同抵消了。在我們擁有的資產上，我們考慮到了這一點。所以我們出去購物，看看長期利率會是多少，長期利率沒有像短期利率那樣上漲，但短期利率會影響我們我們使用的營運資金就行了。

And I think the higher energy rates elsewhere in the country for purposes of offtake contracts, et cetera, I do believe there's a little bit of a lag there with respect to those kind of catching up with where the energy prices are going, just given the long development cycle of some of the assets. But our expectation is the same, the same thing will happen there.

而且我認為，出於承購合同等目的，該國其他地方的能源價格較高，我確實相信在追趕能源價格走勢方面存在一點滯後，只是考慮到部分資產開發週期長。但我們的期望是一樣的，同樣的事情會在那裡發生。

Our next question will come from Ben Kallo of Baird.

我們的下一個問題將來自 Baird 的 Ben Kallo。

George, when you gave the guidance for EBITDA next year, there was no IRA. So could you just talk about maybe what's beneficial from IRA for next year versus what's not good for next year EBITDA? And it's a big question -- sorry to interrupt, big question is, the ramp from this year to EBITDA to next year? And what are the drivers of that? If you could just name the biggest driver and the second biggest driver.

喬治，當你給出明年 EBITDA 的指導時，沒有 IRA。那麼你能不能談談明年 IRA 的好處和明年 EBITDA 的壞處？這是一個大問題——抱歉打斷，大問題是，從今年到明年的 EBITDA 的增長？其驅動因素是什麼？如果你能說出最大的驅動因素和第二大驅動因素。

We have not taken any potential impact from the IRA. It's based again on the project. A good chunk of that will come from the project execution, but a substantial number will come from the assets we placed in operation. For example, I know we -- the number of vessels we put in operation last year wasn't the number we contemplated, but 40 megawatts of assets will go in this first quarter, and that will help a lot. And then, of course, the RNG assets that they will go into operation by the end of the year and a couple of them, they come on early in 2024. So they will contribute as well. So -- and then we have a couple of battery projects that we are working on. And then the other business, they can become a good contributor now, the other lines of business, and they will help as well. I don't know if you want to add any more color, Doran, or what?

我們沒有受到 IRA 的任何潛在影響。它再次基於項目。其中很大一部分將來自項目執行，但很大一部分將來自我們投入運營的資產。例如，我知道我們——我們去年投入運營的船隻數量不是我們預期的數量，但今年第一季度將投入 40 兆瓦的資產，這將有很大幫助。然後，當然，他們將在今年年底投入運營的 RNG 資產，其中一些將在 2024 年初投入運營。因此他們也會做出貢獻。所以 - 然後我們有幾個我們正在進行的電池項目。然後是其他業務，他們現在可以成為一個很好的貢獻者，其他業務線，他們也會提供幫助。我不知道你是否想添加更多顏色，多蘭，或者什麼？

I think that pretty much says it.

我認為這幾乎說明了一切。

And that will be all the time we have for the Q&A session. This will also conclude today's conference call. Thank you all for participating. You may now disconnect, and have a pleasant day.

這將是我們在問答環節的全部時間。這也將結束今天的電話會議。謝謝大家的參與。您現在可以斷開連接，並度過愉快的一天。