Ameresco Inc (AMRC) 2023 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Ameresco, Inc. Second Quarter 2023 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Mrs. Leila Dillon, Senior Vice President, Marketing and Communications. Ms. Dillon, you may begin.

女士們先生們，美好的一天，感謝你們的支持。歡迎參加 Ameresco, Inc. 2023 年第二季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）謹此提醒，本次電話會議正在錄音。現在我想將會議交給東道主、營銷和傳播部高級副總裁萊拉·狄龍 (Leila Dillon) 女士。狄龍女士，您可以開始了。

Thank you, Catherine, and good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us for today's call. Joining me here are George Sakellaris, Ameresco's Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer; Doran Hole, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; and Mark Chiplock, Senior Vice President and Chief Accounting Officer.

謝謝凱瑟琳，大家下午好。我們感謝您參加今天的電話會議。和我一起來的還有 Ameresco 董事長、總裁兼首席執行官 George Sakellaris； Doran Hole，執行副總裁兼首席財務官；和馬克·奇普洛克（Mark Chiplock），高級副總裁兼首席會計官。

Before I turn the call over to George, I would like to make a brief statement regarding forward-looking remarks. Today's earnings materials contain forward-looking statements, including statements regarding our expectations, all forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties. Please refer to today's earnings materials, the safe harbor language on Slide 2 and our SEC filings for a discussion on the major risk factors that could cause our actual results to differ from those in our forward-looking statements. In addition, we use several non-GAAP measures when presenting our financial results. We have included the reconciliations to these measures in our supplemental financial information.

在我把電話轉給喬治之前，我想就前瞻性言論做一個簡短的聲明。今天的收益材料包含前瞻性陳述，包括有關我們的預期的陳述，所有前瞻性陳述都受到風險和不確定性的影響。請參閱今天的收益材料、幻燈片 2 上的安全港語言以及我們向 SEC 提交的文件，以討論可能導致我們的實際結果與前瞻性聲明中的結果不同的主要風險因素。此外，我們在展示財務業績時使用了多項非公認會計原則衡量標準。我們已將這些措施的調節表納入我們的補充財務信息中。

I will now turn the call over to George. George?

我現在將把電話轉給喬治。喬治？

Thank you, Leila, and good afternoon, everyone. We had another solid quarter, and I'm particularly pleased that our positive momentum continued with a strong growth in project backlog and assets in development, supporting both our 2023 guidance and our long-term financial targets. Second quarter revenue was well above our guidance and adjusted EBITDA was at the higher end of our range. Importantly, we ended the quarter with a record total project backlog of $3.2 billion, which was up 9% sequentially.

謝謝你，萊拉，大家下午好。我們又度過了一個穩定的季度，我特別高興的是，我們的積極勢頭持續存在，項目積壓和開發中的資產強勁增長，支持我們的 2023 年指導和長期財務目標。第二季度收入遠高於我們的指導，調整後的 EBITDA 處於我們範圍的高端。重要的是，本季度結束時，我們的項目積壓總額達到創紀錄的 32 億美元，比上一季度增長 9%。

During the quarter, we added $493 million of new project awards, bringing the total adds for the first half of the year to almost $1 billion. This growth is even more impressive, and we now have surpassed the total backlog reached when we signed the almost $1 billion Southern California Edison battery contracts at the end of 2021. We also added 113 megawatts of assets in development in the second quarter, which is the largest amount added in a single quarter in our company's history. This represents an impressive 26% sequential growth in assets in development which we expect will provide substantial EBITDA contributions for many years once brought into operation.

本季度，我們新增了 4.93 億美元的新項目獎勵，使上半年的新增項目總額達到近 10 億美元。這種增長更加令人印象深刻，我們現在已經超過了 2021 年底簽署近 10 億美元南加州愛迪生電池合同時達到的積壓總量。第二季度我們還增加了 113 兆瓦的開發資產，即這是我們公司歷史上單季度新增金額最多的一次。這意味著開發中的資產連續增長了 26%，令人印象深刻，我們預計一旦投入運營，將在多年內為 EBITDA 帶來可觀的貢獻。

Together, our project and asset wins continues to add to our multiyear visibility for profitable revenues while supporting our confidence in Ameresco's long-term growth. Large battery energy storage contract wins represented a major component of this quarter's growth in both, our project backlog and assets in development. In our supplemental slides, you will see that battery assets now comprise 41% of our assets in development compared to under [5%] our existing operating assets. Large battery storage systems are a critical component in the replacement of fossil fuel-generated electricity, playing a key role in the storage of renewable energy during times of peak production. Batteries most importantly though, make the electric grid far more resilient and flexible, quickly providing power when needed due to higher demand, weather-related events and a number of other unplanned outages.

總之，我們贏得的項目和資產繼續增加我們多年來盈利收入的可見性，同時支持我們對 Ameresco 長期增長的信心。大型電池儲能合同的贏得是本季度我們的項目積壓和開發中資產增長的主要組成部分。在我們的補充幻燈片中，您將看到電池資產目前占我們正在開發的資產的 41%，而我們現有的運營資產還不到 [5%]。大型電池存儲系統是替代化石燃料發電的關鍵組成部分，在生產高峰期的可再生能源存儲中發揮著關鍵作用。最重要的是，電池使電網更具彈性和靈活性，可以在因需求增加、天氣相關事件和許多其他意外停電而需要時快速提供電力。

These factors are driving tremendous growth in battery storage, supported by the mass commercialization of battery technologies, which help to drive down costs. In the United States, the Inflation Reduction Act has been a significant catalyst for the rapid adoption of this technology. Before the passage of the IRA, Federal tax credits were only available for battery storage when it was paired with a renewable generation technology, such as solar or wind. Now under the IRA and similar incentives in Canada, stand-alone battery storage systems will be eligible for a 30% or greater investment expert, significantly enhancing the value proposition of this system for our customers, thus driving greater adoption.

在電池技術大規模商業化的支持下，這些因素正在推動電池存儲的巨大增長，這有助於降低成本。在美國，《降低通貨膨脹法案》一直是該技術快速採用的重要催化劑。在 IRA 通過之前，聯邦稅收抵免僅適用於與太陽能或風能等可再生髮電技術相結合的電池存儲。現在，根據 IRA 和加拿大的類似激勵措施，獨立電池存儲系統將有資格獲得 30% 或更多的投資專家，從而顯著增強該系統對客戶的價值主張，從而推動更廣泛的採用。

While the ITC is helpful here in North America, we are also proposing and winning stand-alone battery projects in Europe where the need is just as great. Given our deep technical knowledge, engineering expertise and supplier relationships, Ameresco has become a recognized leader in the implementation of battery systems. From the transformational Southern California Edison projects to the recently announced United Power, Middle River Power, and Atura Power joint venture wins and Ameresco's expertise and financially flexible business model allows us to drive both battery project and asset opportunities for many years to come.

雖然 ITC 在北美很有幫助，但我們還在歐洲提出並贏得了獨立電池項目，那裡的需求同樣巨大。憑藉深厚的技術知識、工程專業知識和供應商關係，Ameresco 已成為電池系統實施領域公認的領導者。從變革性的南加州愛迪生項目到最近宣布的 United Power、Middle River Power 和 Atura Power 合資企業的勝利，Ameresco 的專業知識和財務靈活的商業模式使我們能夠在未來許多年推動電池項目和資產機會。

Another very positive long-term development for Ameresco which occurred during the quarter with the EPA's ruling concerning the Renewable Fuel Standard targets for 2023 through 2025. In its final ruling, the EPA significantly increased the volume obligation for RNG. This ruling had an immediate impact on the price of the D3 RINs which we generate from our RNG operations and prices quickly moved from the low $2 range to above $3. As importantly, the EPA also changed how they calculate the RNG industry average rate of growth, which could support volume calculations even beyond the 3-year period of this ruling. We were very pleased with the ruling which increases our long-term visibility into this important line of business.

Ameresco 的另一個非常積極的長期發展發生在本季度，EPA 對 2023 年至 2025 年可再生燃料標準目標做出了裁決。在其最終裁決中，EPA 大幅增加了 RNG 的數量義務。這項裁決對我們從 RNG 運營中生成的 D3 RIN 的價格產生了直接影響，價格迅速從 2 美元的低位升至 3 美元以上。同樣重要的是，EPA 還改變了他們計算 RNG 行業平均增長率的方式，這甚至可以支持超過該裁決的 3 年期限的銷量計算。我們對這一裁決感到非常滿意，它提高了我們對這一重要業務線的長期知名度。

Additionally, we are anticipating the forthcoming guidance from the EPA on eRINS, which could also provide a tailwind to our existing biogas to electricity projects. Before turning the call over to Doran, I want to highlight the publication of our third annual ESG report entitled, Doing Well by Doing Good, Transformation and Purpose. We are very proud of the fact that our operations have had a significant positive impact on the global environment as our renewable energy assets and customer projects combined have delivered a cumulative carbon emissions reduction of over 95 million metric tons since going public in 2010.

此外，我們預計 EPA 即將發布關於 eRINS 的指導意見，這也可能為我們現有的沼氣發電項目提供動力。在將電話轉給 Doran 之前，我想強調一下我們第三份年度 ESG 報告的發布，題為《行善、轉型和目標，以求更好》。我們感到非常自豪的是，我們的業務對全球環境產生了重大的積極影響，自 2010 年上市以來，我們的可再生能源資產和客戶項目合計已累計減少超過 9500 萬噸碳排放。

Our ongoing asset and project growth will continue to drive this important number even higher. Looking ahead, we have also set a target of achieving net zero from our internal operations for both Scope 1 and Scope 2 emissions by 2040. In support of this target, we have pledged to establish emission reduction targets through the Science-Based Targets initiative by 2025.

我們持續的資產和項目增長將繼續推動這一重要數字更高。展望未來，我們還設定了到 2040 年在內部運營中實現範圍 1 和範圍 2 排放淨零的目標。為了支持這一目標，我們承諾通過科學目標倡議制定減排目標： 2025 年。

I will now turn the call over to Doran to comment on our financial performance and outlook. Doran?

我現在將把電話轉給多蘭，以評論我們的財務業績和前景。多蘭？

Thank you, George, and good afternoon, everyone. For additional financial information, please refer to the press release and supplemental slides that were posted to our website after the market closed today. Total second quarter revenue was $327.1 million about $37 million above the midpoint of our guidance with faster-than-expected execution on certain projects. Energy Asset revenue grew 17%, largely based on the increased number of operating assets year-over-year, while our O&M business delivered another solid quarter with 9% growth.

謝謝喬治，大家下午好。有關更多財務信息，請參閱今天收盤後發佈到我們網站上的新聞稿和補充幻燈片。第二季度總收入為 3.271 億美元，比我們指導的中點高出約 3700 萬美元，某些項目的執行速度快於預期。能源資產收入增長 17%，主要是由於運營資產數量同比增長，而我們的運維業務又實現了 9% 的穩健季度增長。

In addition, our Other line of business was up 4% driven by increased demand for our utility, SaaS and consulting businesses. Gross margin expanded to 17.9% as the lower-margin SoCal Ed contract declined as a percentage of our total revenue. We generated adjusted EBITDA of $37.4 million in the quarter at the higher end of our guidance range. We ended the quarter with approximately $49 million of unrestricted cash while executing on a record $285 million in financing activity.

此外，由於公用事業、SaaS 和諮詢業務的需求增加，我們的其他業務增長了 4%。由於利潤較低的 SoCal Ed 合同占我們總收入的百分比下降，毛利率擴大至 17.9%。本季度調整後 EBITDA 為 3740 萬美元，處於指導範圍的高端。截至本季度末，我們擁有約 4,900 萬美元的非限制性現金，同時執行了創紀錄的 2.85 億美元融資活動。

As George mentioned, we ended the quarter with a record total project backlog of $3.2 billion, a 9% sequential increase as we added nearly $0.5 billion in new project awards during the quarter. Our energy asset visibility is approximately $2.3 billion an operating asset revenue backlog metric that includes both contracted revenue as well as a conservative estimate of the lifetime uncontracted RNG revenues. These metrics, together with our O&M backlog give Ameresco visibility to over $6.7 billion of future revenue. This metric does not include any contribution from the 545 megawatts of energy assets in development and construction.

正如 George 提到的，我們在本季度末的項目積壓總額達到創紀錄的 32 億美元，環比增長 9%，因為我們在本季度增加了近 5 億美元的新項目獎勵。我們的能源資產可見性約為 23 億美元，這是一項運營資產收入積壓指標，其中包括合同收入以及對生命週期未合同 RNG 收入的保守估計。這些指標與我們的運維積壓工作一起使 Ameresco 能夠了解超過 67 億美元的未來收入。該指標不包括開發和建設中的 545 兆瓦能源資產的任何貢獻。

As George mentioned, we experienced record adds of 113 megawatts during the quarter. Our assets in development and construction remain well above our current operating energy assets, giving us additional visibility into our long-term growth. The timing of placing these assets into operation can be anywhere from under a year for small, more simple assets to 4-plus years for more complex assets such as RNG facilities. Listeners will remember that an asset has to meet very strict criteria to be included in this metric, which is much stricter than what most companies consider a pipeline.

正如 George 提到的，本季度我們新增了 113 兆瓦的創紀錄電量。我們的開發和建設資產仍遠高於我們當前的運營能源資產，使我們能夠更加清楚地了解我們的長期增長。這些資產投入運營的時間可以從小型、更簡單的資產不到一年到更複雜的資產（例如 RNG 設施）的 4 年以上。聽眾會記得，資產必須滿足非常嚴格的標準才能包含在該指標中，這比大多數公司認為的管道要嚴格得多。

Historically, approximately 90-plus percent of our energy assets in development and construction are placed into service and either carried on our balance sheet as an operating asset, primarily with nonrecourse financing, or monetize through a sale to a third party. With the changing interest rate environment, we have been fielding many questions on the impact of increasing interest rates on our energy asset business and our expectations for how this business might evolve. As many of you are aware, we use a risk-adjusted levered internal rate of return as a key metric when evaluating energy asset opportunities. We continue to target a mid-teens risk-adjusted levered IRR on our assets.

從歷史上看，我們大約90% 以上的開發和建設能源資產都投入使用，或者作為運營資產（主要通過無追索權融資）記入我們的資產負債表，或者通過出售給第三方來貨幣化。隨著利率環境的變化，我們一直在回答許多關於利率上升對我們的能源資產業務的影響以及我們對該業務如何發展的預期的問題。正如你們許多人所知，在評估能源資產機會時，我們使用風險調整槓桿內部收益率作為關鍵指標。我們繼續將資產的風險調整槓桿 IRR 目標定在 15 左右。

We've been able to achieve this high yield in the solar and battery space by carefully selecting assets that are with repeat or new customers that value our flexible financing approach, vertical integration and technical expertise, which means we're not always competing solely on price. Or because we are developing larger, more technically complex assets such as RNG, where Ameresco's 20-plus years in the market, give us a significant advantage in winning and executing on the opportunities.

我們之所以能夠在太陽能和電池領域實現如此高的收益，是因為我們仔細選擇了那些看重我們靈活的融資方式、垂直整合和技術專長的回頭客或新客戶的資產，這意味著我們並不總是僅僅在以下方面進行競爭：價格。或者因為我們正在開發規模更大、技術更複雜的資產，例如 RNG，Ameresco 在該市場已有 20 多年的經驗，這使我們在贏得和執行機會方面​​具有顯著優勢。

We are experiencing a meaningful increase in asset development opportunities, including some assets that may not meet our risk-adjusted return targets or meaningfully contribute to our net income. That being said, they are still high-quality assets and we can, therefore, generate value for Ameresco by developing and selling them to third parties with lower yield targets. In this case, we recycle capital and earn a profit through an EPC contract where the assets convert to projects upon a sale.

我們正在經歷資產開發機會的顯著增加，包括一些可能無法達到我們的風險調整回報目標或對我們的淨利潤做出重大貢獻的資產。話雖如此，它們仍然是優質資產，因此我們可以通過開發它們並將其出售給收益率目標較低的第三方來為 Ameresco 創造價值。在這種情況下，我們通過EPC合同回收資金並賺取利潤，其中資產在出售時轉化為項目。

We will also look to extract additional value by bundling these converted projects with an O&M contract. Even with maintaining our historic mid-teens IRR hurdle rates, we believe there are ample opportunities to continue to grow our owned assets on average by approximately 20% per year. A growth target we've discussed before, while selectively monetizing our origination efforts in other ways. This strategy isn't new to Ameresco, but in the current environment, it may become more prominent.

我們還將尋求通過將這些改造項目與運營與維護合同捆綁在一起來獲取額外價值。即使保持我們歷史上十幾歲左右的內部收益率預期水平，我們相信仍有充足的機會繼續使我們的自有資產平均每年增長約 20%。我們之前討論過的增長目標，同時有選擇地以其他方式將我們的創始努力貨幣化。這一戰略對 Ameresco 來說並不新鮮，但在當前環境下，它可能會變得更加突出。

In the end, we believe that our flexible corporate model with both project and asset business lines allows us to continue to benefit from the rapid growth of renewables by developing assets which continued to hit our mid-teens IRR target mentioned earlier or developing and selling them as profitable projects.

最後，我們相信，我們靈活的項目和資產業務線企業模式使我們能夠通過開發繼續達到我們前面提到的十幾歲左右內部收益率目標的資產或開發和銷售這些資產，繼續從可再生能源的快速增長中受益。作為盈利項目。

Moving back to our operating assets. These assets are funded by fixed or hedged debt, therefore, rising interest rates have little to no meaningful impact on this part of our business. Thus, even in an increasing interest rate environment, the flexibility of Ameresco's business model and our opportunistic approach to the asset business should allow us to continue to benefit from the tremendous demand for renewable energy solutions.

回到我們的運營資產。這些資產由固定或對沖債務提供資金，因此，利率上升對我們這部分業務幾乎沒有任何有意義的影響。因此，即使在利率不斷上升的環境下，Ameresco 業務模式的靈活性和我們對資產業務的機會主義態度應該使我們能夠繼續受益於對可再生能源解決方案的巨大需求。

We are pleased to reaffirm our 2023 guidance, which anticipates adjusted EBITDA growth of 5% at the midpoint, noteworthy considering the difficult year-on-year comparisons associated with the wind-down and completion of the large SCE projects. We have also provided a more detailed mix of our expected Q3 and Q4 results in the press release. We continue to expect to place between 80 and 100 megawatts of energy assets in service in 2023, including 2 RNG plants.

我們很高興重申我們的 2023 年指引，預計調整後的 EBITDA 增長率為 5%，值得注意的是，考慮到大型 SCE 項目的逐步結束和完成所帶來的艱難的同比比較。我們還在新聞稿中提供了我們預期的第三季度和第四季度結果的更詳細組合。我們仍然預計 2023 年將有 80 至 100 兆瓦的能源資產投入使用，其中包括 2 座 RNG 工廠。

A third plant we originally anticipated to be placed in service in 2023 is expected to be at mechanical completion by the end of the year and fully commissioned in Q1 2024. Several additional RNG assets are in the late stages of development and construction, and we continue to expect that 4 or 5 of these will come online during 2024.

我們最初預計於 2023 年投入使用的第三座工廠預計將於今年年底機械完工，並於 2024 年第一季度全面投入使用。另外幾個 RNG 資產正處於開發和建設的後期階段，我們將繼續預計其中4 到5 個將在2024 年上線。

Now I'd like to turn the call back over to George for closing comments.

現在我想將電話轉回給喬治以徵求結束意見。

Thank you, Doran. As we discussed in detail during this call. which have continued to extend our long-term line of sight to significant growth ending the second quarter with over $6.5 billion in revenue visibility and 545 megawatts of assets in development and construction. Our first half performance, together with our backlog and business development pipeline, supports our confidence in our long-term growth targets. This is an exciting time to be leading a clean tech solution provider. And I know we have the technical talent and business acumen to support the energy transition and drive meaningful change.

謝謝你，多蘭。正如我們在這次電話會議中詳細討論的那樣。這繼續將我們的長期視野延伸至第二季度末的顯著增長，收入可見度超過 65 億美元，開發和建設資產達 545 兆瓦。我們上半年的業績，加上我們的積壓訂單和業務發展渠道，支持了我們對長期增長目標的信心。對於領導清潔技術解決方案提供商來說，這是一個激動人心的時刻。我知道我們擁有技術人才和商業頭腦來支持能源轉型並推動有意義的變革。

In closing, I would like to once again thank our employees, customers and stockholders for their continued support. Operator, we would like to open the call to questions.

最後，我要再次感謝我們的員工、客戶和股東的持續支持。接線員，我們想開始提問。

(Operator Instructions) Our first question comes from Noah Kaye with Oppenheimer.

（操作員說明）我們的第一個問題來自諾亞·凱和奧本海默。

Thank you, by the way, for the granular outlook for the back half. I guess, this is a couple of quarters in a row now of faster-than-expected revenue conversion and so my first question, I'm just trying to kind of reconcile that outlook and the full year. I mean just taking the midpoint of 3Q and 4Q, you'd be at the high end of the full year revenue range. I mean you're kind of implicitly raising the low end of the full year revenue guidance. Am I missing something? Or is there something that I'm not doing correctly? Or is that correct?

順便說一句，謝謝您對後半部分的詳細展望。我想，這是連續幾個季度收入轉換速度快於預期，所以我的第一個問題是，我只是試圖協調這一前景和全年。我的意思是，僅取第三季度和第四季度的中點，您就會處於全年收入範圍的高端。我的意思是，您隱含地提高了全年收入指導的下限。我錯過了什麼嗎？或者我有什麼做得不正確的地方？或者說這是正確的嗎？

Yes. No, it's Mark Chiplock, how it is going? Yes, I mean I don't think that we're -- we didn't want to change the overall guidance. I mean, I think we are seeing some better performance on the top line because we have seen some of that acceleration. But we're also seeing a shift in some of our awards and the timing of signing those to contracts. So yes, I mean it's not a perfect science. I think we're trying to put these ranges together. I think we still expect to be within the original ranges. Could we do better? Sure. But I think we're trying to use the best visibility that we have particularly on the project stuff to shape Q3 and Q4.

是的。不，我是馬克·奇普洛克，最近怎麼樣？是的，我的意思是我不認為我們——我們不想改變總體指導。我的意思是，我認為我們在營收方面看到了一些更好的表現，因為我們已經看到了一些加速。但我們也看到一些獎項以及簽署合同的時間發生了變化。所以是的，我的意思是這不是一門完美的科學。我認為我們正在嘗試將這些範圍放在一起。我認為我們仍然期望在原來的範圍內。我們可以做得更好嗎？當然。但我認為我們正在嘗試利用我們在項目方面的最佳可見性來塑造第三季度和第四季度。

I think the good news on the second half of the year with the visibility is that over 90% of that project revenue is coming out of awarded and contracted. So again, we have good visibility. The timing, as we've talked about in the past, is always kind of the variable that can impact anything from a quarter-to-quarter basis.

我認為今年下半年的好消息是，超過 90% 的項目收入來自授予和簽約。再說一次，我們有很好的能見度。正如我們過去所討論的，時機總是一種可以影響每個季度的變化的變量。

Yes. And I want to ask about project margins in the quarter. It's a little light. Was that just mix? And the corollary is what drives the improved operating leverage in the back half? And I mean even better operating leverage in the back half from a seasonality perspective, I'm just talking about a better than typical improvement in operating leverage. That's in the guidance.

是的。我想問一下本季度的項目利潤率。有點輕。那隻是混合嗎？推論是什麼推動了下半年運營槓桿的改善？我的意思是從季節性角度來看，後半段的運營槓桿甚至更好，我只是在談論運營槓桿比典型的改善。這是指南中的內容。

Yes. I mean if you look at those net income and EBITDA margins. I think the challenge is, again, when you're looking last year, you've got certainly higher revenue, higher net income from the SCE projects. We do the line of business reporting, remember, we're doing an allocation of corporate expenses based on revenue share. And so I think our project margins year-over-year, they were going to decline because of the allocation of those corporate expenses, essentially a large fixed allocation of costs on significantly lower revenue year-over-year.

是的。我的意思是，如果你看看這些淨利潤和 EBITDA 利潤率。我認為挑戰再次在於，當你回顧去年時，你肯定會從 SCE 項目中獲得更高的收入和更高的淨利潤。我們進行業務線報告，請記住，我們正在根據收入份額分配公司費用。因此，我認為我們的項目利潤率將同比下降，因為這些公司費用的分配，本質上是在收入同比大幅下降的情況下進行大量固定成本分配。

We did see some cost overruns on certain projects in the quarter that had a little bit of an impact on our gross margins but we are -- we would expect to see margins continue to expand in the second half of the year, certainly as SCE cycles out, and we'd expect to continue to see the trend of the expanding gross margins throughout the second half of the year.

我們確實看到本季度某些項目的成本超支，這對我們的毛利率產生了一些影響，但我們預計下半年利潤率將繼續擴大，當然隨著 SCE 週期的變化我們預計下半年毛利率將繼續呈擴大趨勢。

Fantastic. If I could just sneak one more in, that's RFS decision, obviously, very positive for RNG assets and I was just curious to what extent the higher RINs we're seeing now factored into the reiteration of the guidance. And there was no impact maybe help us understand would that just be due to hedging or really to kind of conservatism in your assumptions for the back half?

極好的。如果我能再偷偷地加入一個，那就是 RFS 的決定，顯然，這對 RNG 資產非常積極，我只是好奇我們現在看到的更高的 RIN 在多大程度上會影響到指南的重申。沒有影響也許可以幫助我們理解這只是由於對沖還是實際上是由於您對後半部分的假設中的保守主義？

Yes. I think certainly, we're pleased to see the RIN prices coming up, it has some impact kind of in our -- in the second half of our numbers, but I wouldn't call it significant or meaningful. It's -- I mean, we've always kind of tried to carry our assumptions somewhere where the market is going and where we would anticipate the market going. So while it has some benefit, nothing that would -- nothing that was kind of put us in a position to want to change the guidance that we provided.

是的。我認為當然，我們很高興看到 RIN 價格上漲，它對我們的後半部分數據產生了一些影響，但我不認為它是重大或有意義的。我的意思是，我們總是試圖將我們的假設帶到市場正在走向的地方以及我們預期市場走向的地方。因此，雖然它有一些好處，但沒有任何東西可以讓我們想要改變我們提供的指導。

And you got to remember, Noah, that [55%] -- actually, as of today, we are 55% hedged instead of the end of the quarter, actually. So it's only 45% of the future production that can benefit a little bit from the higher prices. But the ones we used in the forecast, it's pretty much a little bit where the market is right now.

諾亞，你必須記住，[55%]——實際上，截至今天，我們進行了 55% 的對沖，而不是季度末。因此，只有 45% 的未來產量可以從更高的價格中受益。但我們在預測中使用的那些，幾乎與目前的市場狀況有些相似。

We have a question from Stephen Gengaro with Stifel.

我們有史蒂芬·根加羅 (Stephen Gengaro) 向 Stifel 提出的問題。

So two for me. The first, when you think about the projects and the bidding activity and the orders and backlog build, any insights into kind of what that pricing environment is like currently? And how we should think about the impact that has on project margins over time?

所以對我來說是兩個。首先，當您考慮項目、投標活動以及訂單和積壓訂單時，您對當前的定價環境有何見解？我們應該如何考慮隨著時間的推移對項目利潤的影響？

I mean the activity is very, very good, and that's why you see our awards and the backlog is developing very, very nicely, which we like to see, and that's why I extended a little bit on my -- in my discussion. The projects are indeed to get a little bit larger. The margins, if it's an EPC design-build otherwise project, like we said before, they are lower than the performance contracts margins. But on the other hand, they contribute more in the profitability because we -- they're all going to -- their leverage in the company.

我的意思是，這項活動非常非常好，這就是為什麼你會看到我們的獎項和積壓工作發展得非常非常好，這是我們希望看到的，這就是為什麼我在討論中擴展了一些內容。這些項目確實會變得更大一些。利潤率，如果是 EPC 設計建造其他項目，就像我們之前所說的那樣，它們低於績效合同利潤率。但另一方面，他們對盈利能力的貢獻更大，因為我們——他們都會——他們在公司的影響力。

The other thing that has happened a little bit, and that's why the OpEx is a little bit higher. Since after COVID, we wanted to push the organization, and spend a little bit more money in development -- in order to develop a good pipeline and capture a good market share. And I'm glad to say that the proposal activity and the win rate is very, very good. So I would say the environment is good in at least the last couple of quarters that we had.

另一件事情發生了一點，這就是運營支出稍微高一點的原因。自從新冠疫情之後，我們希望推動該組織的發展，並在開發上投入更多的資金，以開發良好的渠道並佔領良好的市場份額。我很高興地說，提案活動和勝率非常非常好。所以我想說至少在過去幾個季度我們的環境是好的。

Great. And just as a follow-up to that, anything on the order flow flowing out of Europe yet? And just what's the quick update on how your traction is in Europe?

偉大的。作為後續行動，流出歐洲的訂單流有什麼變化嗎？您在歐洲的吸引力如何快速更新？

This is very, very good. The activity is very well. We have a hard time keeping up with it. And that's why we spend a little bit more dollar. When a company grows, sometimes it's very hard to control our OpEx. But on the other hand, the opportunities are very large. Our Italian group that we acquired, we are very, very pleased with the way they have turned out. They're doing very, very well. In Greece, we have done a couple of projects. And I think the likelihood that we will have someone there is very, very good. In the U.K., again, there are a few things down the pipeline that are coming along that it's going to help us a lot. So the activity over there and, Doran, you've spent some time as you might want to say a few words, and I've been going back and forth. It's -- I'm pleasantly surprised how active that market is.

這非常非常好。活動非常好。我們很難跟上它的步伐。這就是我們多花一點錢的原因。當公司成長時，有時很難控制我們的運營支出。但另一方面，機會也非常大。我們收購的意大利集團，我們對他們的表現非常非常滿意。他們做得非常非常好。在希臘，我們做了幾個項目。我認為我們在那裡派人的可能性非常非常大。在英國，有一些事情正在醞釀之中，這將對我們有很大幫助。那邊的活動，Doran，你花了一些時間，因為你可能想說幾句話，而我一直在來回走動。我對這個市場的活躍程度感到驚喜。

Yes, I think I would only add that it's coming from all technologies. And a lot of the project business, of course, we're getting utility-scale EPC opportunities. And like George said, Greece is looking very strong for us. In the U.K., we've come through with some really good wins in advanced technologies that is allowing that business to move beyond traditional energy efficiency into the advanced technologies, just like we've done here in the United States.

是的，我想我只想補充一點，它來自所有技術。當然，我們的很多項目業務都獲得了公用事業規模的 EPC 機會。正如喬治所說，希臘對我們來說看起來非常強大。在英國，我們在先進技術方面取得了一些非常好的勝利，使該企業能夠超越傳統的能源效率，進入先進技術，就像我們在美國所做的那樣。

Thank you. And our next question comes from Joseph Osha from Guggenheim.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自古根海姆的約瑟夫·奧沙。

Some questions on this storage business, which is growing so robustly. First, wondering if you can talk a little bit about what it's been like handling cell procurement. I know there were some learnings from SCE. So I'm just wondering if you can update us on how those learnings inform how you're handling the procurement process for all of these new storage products -- projects. And then I do have another question.

關於這個增長如此強勁的存儲業務的一些問題。首先，想知道您是否可以談談處理電池採購的情況。我知道從 SCE 中可以學到一些東西。因此，我只是想知道您是否可以向我們介紹一下這些最新知識如何指導您如何處理所有這些新存儲產品（項目）的採購流程。然後我還有另一個問題。

Yes, I'll start with the first one, Joe. So the procurement, we're continuing to expand our number of relationships with battery suppliers. As you know, that market remains fragmented. And so we've got to be very selective when it comes to who our partners are with the integration side of that, the software side of that. It's not just the cells, it's really everything. And so while we took a kind of -- took a close look and did a competitive process when we were putting together the SCE project, given the time line constraints, we went with who was going to be able to deliver on time.

是的，我將從第一個開始，喬。因此，在採購方面，我們正在繼續擴大與電池供應商的關係數量。如您所知，該市場仍然分散。因此，當涉及到我們的集成方面、軟件方面的合作夥伴時，我們必須非常有選擇性。不僅僅是細胞，而是一切。因此，當我們在整合 SCE 項目時，我們仔細觀察並進行了競爭性流程，考慮到時間限制，我們選擇了誰能夠按時交付。

Now I think it's fair to say we can be more picky. And we are running competitive processes more or less in all of the projects that we announced that George talked about in his script. And we're ensuring that our suppliers are stepping up to the plate in terms of pricing, quality, degradation, [natural], you name it, schedule, delivery time lines, everything. And I'm excited about the market because there's more and more companies kind of come into the fray. Yes, there is still a limited number of battery cell manufacturers. However, they're continuing to supply more different types of companies. And it's those skill sets in terms of their ability to execute, deliver on time, commission projects, everything soup to nuts, it's not just the batteries.

現在我認為可以公平地說我們可以更加挑剔。我們在喬治在劇本中提到的所有項目中或多或少都在運行競爭流程。我們確保我們的供應商在定價、質量、降解、[自然]、你能想到的、時間表、交貨時間線等一切方面採取行動。我對這個市場感到興奮，因為越來越多的公司加入了競爭。是的，電池製造商的數量仍然有限。然而，他們將繼續為更多不同類型的公司提供服務。關鍵是執行能力、按時交付、委託項目等一切技能，而不僅僅是電池。

Certainly. Okay. And then I'm actually going to switch my follow-up then in response to that. So is it fair to say then that as you addition companies like STEM or FlexGen or whoever that then it's their job to go find cells? Or are you still involved in that procurement process? I just want to understand how exactly this is working now?

當然。好的。然後我實際上會改變我的後續行動來回應這一點。那麼，當你添加像 STEM 或 FlexGen 這樣的公司或任何其他公司時，那麼他們的工作就是尋找細胞嗎？或者您仍然參與該採購流程嗎？我只是想了解這現在到底是如何運作的？

Yes, we're directly involved, but I'd be quite honest. I mean some of them like to work with certain manufacturers more than others, but some of them are actually a little bit more flexible like we are and want to get the best solution for the customers. So we remain heavily involved in that process.

是的，我們直接參與其中，但我很誠實。我的意思是，他們中的一些人比其他人更喜歡與某些製造商合作，但其中一些人實際上像我們一樣更加靈活，並且希望為客戶獲得最佳解決方案。因此，我們仍然積極參與這一過程。

Our next question is from George Gianarikas from Canaccord Genuity.

我們的下一個問題來自 Canaccord Genuity 的 George Gianarikas。

I'd like to ask about your focus on free cash flow generation. I know you've only guided to 2024 EBITDA, but there was a lot of discussion around potentially selling assets or concentrating a little bit more on projects. I'm curious as to whether that becomes more of a focus as we move into 2025 and 2026 in free cash flow?

我想問一下您對自由現金流生成的關注程度。我知道您只指導了 2024 年 EBITDA，但圍繞可能出售資產或更多地關注項目進行了很多討論。我很好奇，隨著我們進入 2025 年和 2026 年的自由現金流，這是否會成為更多關注的焦點？

So George, I'll just take a stab at that. My gut reaction was, as you look forward past '24 into '25 is that there is not a prescriptive strategic move on our part to move toward project revenue and cash flow. We maintain this flexibility when we approach customers. So if the customers happen to be looking for more project business, that's the direction our company will go for the customer. And if they're looking for more asset business, that's the direction we will go.

所以喬治，我會嘗試一下。我的直覺反應是，當你展望 24 世紀到 25 世紀的時候，我們沒有採取規定性的戰略舉措來實現項目收入和現金流。當我們接觸客戶時，我們保持這種靈活性。所以如果客戶碰巧正在尋找更多的項目業務，這就是我們公司將為客戶提供的方向。如果他們正在尋找更多的資產業務，這就是我們的發展方向。

As we said, with the asset business, we've got a little bit of a regulator here where we can actually monetize the development pipeline and convert those into projects as needed based whether it's on return criteria or the risk adjustments that are part of the determination of the return of criteria. But we're not making a strategic move toward or away from the project business.

正如我們所說，對於資產業務，我們在這裡有一點監管機構，我們實際上可以將開發渠道貨幣化，並根據需要將其轉換為項目，無論是回報標準還是風險調整，這些都是項目的一部分。確定返回標準。但我們並沒有對項目業務採取戰略行動。

No. No, we'll continue to emphasize the project business as much as possible. And I don't know if you saw in terms of the International Energy Agency in the paper today, they announced that the least cost alternative to net zero is energy efficiency. Number one, clean fuel is energy efficient. So we'll continue that. But we'll try to take advantage of the full spectrum of the clean tech sector. And I think that's helping us a lot.

不，不，我們會繼續盡可能地強調項目業務。我不知道你是否在今天的報紙上看到了國際能源署的說法，他們宣布淨零成本最低的替代方案是能源效率。第一，清潔燃料具有能源效率。所以我們會繼續這樣做。但我們將嘗試充分利用清潔技術領域的全部優勢。我認為這對我們有很大幫助。

And then as far as the asset is concerned, it's selling some of the assets, we are very pleased that we are signing much more than we should really. And that's why we will take some that maybe not have the rate of return that we would like to, but somebody else likes it. So we say, great, we will flip them to them. But -- no, we're not getting away from the business. Actually, we will focus as much as we possibly can.

就資產而言，它正在出售一些資產，我們很高興我們簽署的資產比我們真正應該簽署的要多得多。這就是為什麼我們會選擇一些可能沒有我們想要的回報率但其他人喜歡的產品。所以我們說，太好了，我們會把它們轉給他們。但是——不，我們不會放棄這項業務。事實上，我們會盡可能集中精力。

And as a follow-up, I'd like to ask about this RNG asset that's moved to being fully commissioned in the first quarter of '24. You reiterated you've 4 or 5 that will come online in '24. Are those in addition to this other one that's been pushed into the first quarter?

作為後續行動，我想詢問有關 RNG 資產的情況，該資產已於 24 年第一季度全面投入使用。您重申您有 4 或 5 個將在 24 年上線。除了被推到第一季度的另一個之外還有這些嗎？

Go ahead. Yes.

前進。是的。

Listen, what happened on this one, originally they were supposed to deliver some of the equipment in April, then it was June, then it was late July, I think it was delivered - it just got delivered. So that's why some of the projects they move either due to the weather or to delivery schedule. That's what we see in the biggest bottleneck.

聽著，這件事發生了什麼，本來他們應該在四月份交付一些設備，然後是六月，然後是七月下旬，我認為它已經交付了 - 它剛剛交付。這就是為什麼他們會因為天氣或交付時間表而移動一些項目。這就是我們看到的最大瓶頸。

And then we have some problems with the transformers and electrical switch gear and so on. But at the end of the day, it's one of the energy business [for sale]. We've been in it for about 20 years now. And I think the team that we have is the best in the business, and we might miss a quarter or 2 here and there. But overall, we will deliver top quality projects in a timely fashion.

然後我們在變壓器和電氣開關設備等方面遇到了一些問題。但歸根結底，它是[待售]能源業務之一。我們已經從事這個行業大約20年了。我認為我們擁有的團隊是業內最好的，我們可能會在這里或那裡錯過一兩個季度。但總的來說，我們將及時交付高質量的項目。

We have a question from William Grippin from UBS.

我們有來自瑞銀 (UBS) 的威廉·格里平 (William Grippin) 的問題。

My first question here was just, wanted to ask how you're thinking about your approach to RIN monetization now just given the final EPA RVO and we have 3 years of visibility and obviously, pricing has been a lot better. So how are you thinking about hedging versus open market?

我的第一個問題只是，想問一下您現在如何考慮 RIN 貨幣化方法，現​​在剛剛給出最終的 EPA RVO，而且我們有 3 年的可見性，顯然，定價已經好多了。那麼您如何看待對沖與公開市場？

I think the strategy that we've been using in the past that hedging 50% of the output and then the rest of it in the open market. Now that we have a 3-year visibility, we feel even much better with this strategy. But we're always very optimistic about the RNG market from the beginning because not only the RINs that they have a great value. But in the long term, I think the voluntary market for renewable natural gas, we have a great place. And we have seen, by the way, the 3- to 5-year contracts that we signed on 50% of the output, the prices are coming up. So I wouldn't be surprised over the next as we develop more and more of these RNG facilities that we will not have as much as risk, I would say, down the road.

我認為我們過去一直使用的策略是對沖 50% 的產出，然後在公開市場上對沖其餘部分。現在我們有了 3 年的可見性，我們對這個策略感覺更好了。但我們從一開始就對RNG市場非常樂觀，因為不僅僅是RIN，他們也有很大的價值。但從長遠來看，我認為可再生天然氣的自願市場，我們有一個很好的地方。順便說一句，我們已經看到，我們簽訂的 50% 產量的 3 至 5 年合同，價格正在上漲。因此，隨著我們開發越來越多的 RNG 設施，我不會對接下來的情況感到驚訝，我想說，未來我們不會有那麼多風險。

You would see us executing longer-term contracts as soon as the economics dictate. And every year, by the way, we're doing an analysis for the Board and we determined very good analysis, what will the cost will be for us if we were to hedge more than what we have done in the past. But look, it's a very, very important part of our business line, and we pay a lot of attention to it. We think we develop great assets. We want to maximize the value of those assets.

一旦經濟形勢允許，您就會看到我們立即執行長期合同。順便說一句，我們每年都會為董事會進行分析，我們確定了非常好的分析，如果我們要進行比過去更多的對沖，我們的成本將會是多少。但是你看，這是我們業務線中非常非常重要的一部分，我們對此非常重視。我們認為我們開發了巨大的資產。我們希望最大化這些資產的價值。

Well, sorry, just -- if you want to get micro between now and the end of the year, the sort of dynamics of hedging versus waiting, we're kind of watching the market. We knew that right after the RVO, that came out as we expected, there would be a lot of people going to sell. So we didn't go straight in to liquidate all the stuff. We'll continue to keep our ear to the ground in terms of production estimates and see what we think is going to happen with the market. We've got our feelers out everywhere in this market. And so we'll continue to hedge dynamically and opportunistically for the rest of the year on these 2023 production.

好吧，抱歉，只是 - 如果你想從現在到年底之間進行微觀分析，即對沖與等待的動態，我們正在觀察市場。我們知道，RVO 發布後，如我們所料，會有很多人想要出售。所以我們沒有直接去清算所有的東西。我們將繼續密切關注產量預測，看看我們認為市場將會發生什麼。我們已經在這個市場的各個地方進行了試探。因此，我們將在今年剩餘時間內繼續對 2023 年的產量進行動態和機會主義對沖。

And I know that you're relatively new to the coverage. We generally don't go over 90% in the current year, generally speaking, to leave a little bit of gap for production variability.

我知道您對報導還比較陌生。一般來說，今年我們一般不會超過90%，為產量波動留一點間隙。

Got it. And just my follow-up here. Just on the implied fourth quarter earnings ramp in the guidance, that's outside of the range of kind of seasonality that we've seen over the last several years, could you just speak to the drivers of that? Is it really just projects coming online in the fourth quarter that are contributing?

知道了。這只是我的後續行動。就指導中隱含的第四季度收益增長而言，這超出了我們過去幾年所看到的季節性範圍，您能談談其驅動因素嗎？難道真的只有第四季度上線的項目才有貢獻嗎？

I think a large part of the revenue is a part of some seasonality, but we are -- we have a little bit of a shift on the awarded timing. So again, I mentioned that we have some real good visibility of revenue coming out of the project backlog between awarded and contracted. But I think some of the timing that we're seeing that's maybe pushing something out from Q3 into Q4 as the timing when we anticipate some awards converting to contracts.

我認為很大一部分收入是季節性的一部分，但我們在授予的時間上有一點轉變。我再次提到，我們對授予和簽約之間的項目積壓的收入有一些真正良好的可見性。但我認為我們看到的一些時機可能會將某些內容從第三季度推遲到第四季度，作為我們預計一些獎項轉換為合同的時機。

What I think is important to remember with that is that we're capitalizing on the projects in the awarded state, we are capitalizing project development costs for that project. As soon as it converts to a contract, there's an immediate pickup in revenue as we move those costs into the construction phase and as part of that cost budget because we -- our revenue is on a percentage completion basis. So I think Q4 looks a bit heavier than it normally would, part of that is going to be shifting a couple of awards converting to contracts. And then the rest of it is just the visibility we have coming out of our contracted backlog. Obviously, we still need to execute on that, but we feel pretty good based on that visibility.

我認為重要的是要記住，我們正在利用獲獎州的項目，我們正在利用該項目的項目開發成本。一旦轉換為合同，當我們將這些成本轉移到施工階段並作為成本預算的一部分時，收入就會立即增加，因為我們的收入是按完工百分比計算的。因此，我認為第四季度看起來比平時要重一些，其中一部分是將一些獎項轉換為合同。然後剩下的就是我們從合同積壓中獲得的可見性。顯然，我們仍然需要執行這一點，但基於這種可見性，我們感覺非常好。

Our next question comes from Kashy Harrison with Piper Sandler.

我們的下一個問題來自 Kashy Harrison 和 Piper Sandler。

So maybe just a follow-up to the last question. Can you maybe -- it sounds like you -- Mark, it sounded like you suggested maybe there is a little bit of the awarded conversion taking a bit longer than you expected. Can you speak to maybe what's the driver behind there? And then I have a follow-up question.

所以也許只是最後一個問題的後續。你能不能——聽起來像你——馬克，聽起來你建議也許有一點獎勵的轉換花費的時間比你預期的要長一些。你能跟後面的司機談談嗎？然後我有一個後續問題。

Yes. I mean it's a good question because, quite honestly, I think the trend that we're seeing is our awards are actually converting a bit faster, particularly on the design build and so -- generally, those take anywhere from 12 to 24 months to convert. We're actually seeing it a bit on the lower side. It's just some larger projects that have taken a little bit longer that we see shifting out. It could very well be that, that pulls back in. But I think in terms of just providing the shaping we're trying to maintain a little bit of a conservative view in terms of when those will convert, but still give us confidence in being able to achieve the full year numbers.

是的。我的意思是這是一個很好的問題，因為說實話，我認為我們看到的趨勢是我們的獎項實際上轉換得更快一些，特別是在設計構建方面，因此- 一般來說，這些獎項需要12 到24 個月才能獲得轉變。我們實際上看到它有點偏低。我們看到只是一些較大的項目需要更長的時間才能被淘汰。但我認為，就提供塑造而言，我們試圖在這些何時轉變方面保持一點保守的觀點，但仍然讓我們有信心成為能夠達到全年數字。

Got it. And my follow-up question is on the RNG side. Can you discuss just the progress on the 4 or 5 RNG projects that are expected to come online in 2024, how are those -- how is construction tracking to a relative -- tracking relative to expectations? What's the risk of delays on those 4 or 5 projects? And then finally, just in light of the RVO ruling, can you give us some sensitivities for 2024 from the higher D3 RIN pricing?

知道了。我的後續問題是關於RNG 方面的。您能否僅討論一下預計在 2024 年上線的 4 或 5 個 RNG 項目的進展情況，這些項目的建設跟踪相對於預期的情況如何？這 4 或 5 個項目延遲的風險有多大？最後，根據 RVO 的裁決，您能否告訴我們 2024 年 D3 RIN 定價較高的一些敏感性？

We'll start on the construction progress, the development progress actually feeling very good about the 4 or 5. We're -- as we've talked about, those are in relatively late stages of development or already in construction. And therefore, we have a couple of them that we feel very good about the time lines and the others are moving along in the pace where we expected them to move, right? So I think we feel pretty good about that piece of it.

我們將從建設進度開始，開發進度實際上對 4 或 5 感覺非常好。正如我們所討論的，這些項目處於相對較晚的開發階段或已經在建設中。因此，我們對其中一些項目的時間線感覺非常好，而其他項目正在按照我們預期的速度進行，對嗎？所以我認為我們對這一部分感覺很好。

As with the RIN and the 2024, I think the point here is that we're not selling our 2024 RINs, yes, right? We are watching where that market sits vis-a-vis what we expect production to look like overall across the market. But that falls straight into the category where I talked before about we're keeping our ear to the ground. We're going to see where those numbers come out in terms of the supply and what we see finishing in the market and what we see not finishing in the market, and then we'll hedge accordingly.

與 RIN 和 2024 一樣，我認為這裡的重點是我們不會出售 2024 年 RIN，是的，對嗎？我們正在觀察該市場的情況與我們預期的整個市場的整體產量情況。但這直接屬於我之前談到的我們正在密切關注的類別。我們將看看這些數字在供應方面的表現，以及我們看到的市場結束和市場未結束的情況，然後我們將進行相應的對沖。

But I don't think we're prepared to start providing sensitivities to the overall business as you know we're a very diversified business. RNG is one piece of it. I don't think we're ready to start providing sensitivities on RIN prices for 2024.

但我認為我們還沒有準備好開始為整體業務提供敏感性，因為您知道我們是一家非常多元化的企業。 RNG 就是其中之一。我認為我們還沒有準備好開始提供 2024 年 RIN 價格的敏感性。

Our next question comes from Julien Dumoulin-Smith with Bank of America.

我們的下一個問題來自美國銀行的 Julien Dumoulin-Smith。

Look, I wanted to follow up on a couple. Look, just I wanted to flag a couple of things. So on '23, if we go back to that really quickly. I'm hearing a couple of things from you guys. But first, can we talk about the SCE and just understanding the full extent of the impact. The Edison 10-Q had some commentary about some shifting time lines. So I want to make sure we understood, and you guys had kind of a clear definitive view about what that financial impact was.

聽著，我想跟進一對夫婦。聽著，我只是想指出一些事情。那麼在 23 年，如果我們很快回到那個話題的話。我從你們那裡聽到了一些事情。但首先，我們可以談談 SCE 並了解其影響的全部範圍。 Edison 10-Q 對一些變化的時間線有一些評論。所以我想確保我們理解，並且你們對財務影響有一個明確的看法。

And then also just on '23 altogether, it sounds like given the 3Q and 4Q dynamic, we started talking about it at the top of the call here, it sounds like you're still on balance, net quite comfortable on '23 and the reason why you wouldn't raise '23 is more about a timing issue that things could slip into 1Q. Is that the right interpretation?

然後就在 23 年，聽起來考慮到 3Q 和 4Q 的動態，我們在電話會議的頂部開始討論它，聽起來你仍然處於平衡狀態，對 23 年和你不提出'23的原因更多是關於時間問題，事情可能會滑入第一季度。這是正確的解釋嗎？

I'll start with SoCal and then maybe kick the other piece to Mark, Julien. As far as SoCal is concerned, because we're 95-plus percent complete with that project. The financial impact of the movement in the substantial completion dates is not anything that we're concerned about for 2023. As you might expect, we're heavily focused on finishing the projects. And therefore, we don't have any updates as far as negotiation of open items with SoCal Ed, but the revenue amounts are kind of down to the wire, and we're just in the final commissioning of 2 out of the 3 projects, as we mentioned in our disclosure. Mark, maybe I'll throw it to you about those all.

我將從南加州開始，然後可能會將另一部分踢給馬克、朱利安。就南加州而言，因為我們該項目已完成 95% 以上。對於 2023 年，我們並不擔心實質性完成日期變動的財務影響。正如您所料，我們主要專注於完成項目。因此，就與 SoCal Ed 的開放項目談判而言，我們沒有任何更新，但收入金額已經接近尾聲，而且我們剛剛進入 3 個項目中 2 個項目的最終調試階段，正如我們在披露中提到的。馬克，也許我會把這些都交給你。

Yes, sure. I think the answer to your question on -- it is, yes, like I feel like we have really good visibility on to the second half of the year with respect to revenue because a large percentage of it is coming from our awarded and contracted backlog -- project backlog. There is still a portion that we still would need to, what I'll say, book and burn, but it's a relatively small piece. And yes, I think the -- we talk about the projects business can be heavily impacted by timing. And so I think some of the awards we anticipate signing in Q4 because the timing shift absolutely. But I think right now, based on the visibility that we have, we're maintaining confidence in the -- in our original estimates for the year.

是的，當然。我認為你的問題的答案是——是的，我覺得我們對下半年的收入有很好的了解，因為其中很大一部分來自我們授予和簽約的積壓訂單——項目積壓。還有一部分我們仍然需要，我會說，預訂並刻錄，但它是一個相對較小的部分。是的，我認為我們談論的項目業務可能會受到時間安排的嚴重影響。因此，我認為我們預計會在第四季度簽署一些獎項，因為時間絕對發生了變化。但我認為，現在，基於我們所擁有的可見性，我們對今年的最初估計保持信心。

Got it. And then on '24 itself, I mean, just to understand, I mean, with the mark-to-market increase in the RINs prices, et cetera, I mean, and the open position that you guys alluded to here earlier, I think 45%. I mean, why not be more constructive on '24? Again, I get timing issues that clearly seem to be part of this. But can you explain a little bit more of the puts and takes there as to why it would not be overall more constructive? Or again, is this just you guys holding back, if you will, in some respects?

知道了。然後在24 本身，我的意思是，只是為了理解，我的意思是，隨著RIN 價格的按市價上漲，等等，我的意思是，以及你們之前在這裡提到的未平倉頭寸，我想45%。我的意思是，為什麼不在“24”時更具建設性呢？我再次遇到了時間問題，這顯然是其中的一部分。但是你能解釋一下為什麼它總體上不會更具建設性嗎？或者，如果你們願意的話，這只是你們在某些方面有所保留嗎？

Julien, I think it's exactly that. I think the full year 2024 guidance will come when we release Q4 in the beginning of the year. That's -- and we'll -- at that point in time, we'll be happy to talk more about it.

朱利安，我認為正是如此。我認為 2024 年全年指引將在我們年初發布第四季度時發布。那是 - 我們會 - 到那時，我們將很樂意更多地談論它。

Got it. But there's no other offsetting or mitigating factor or starting point assumption on the $300 million that one should be aware of, right? I mean, obviously, we're all looking at this higher price. I just want to make sure that we're not missing something about this. It seems like it's $15 million in EBITDA on a dollar move here.

知道了。但對於這 3 億美元，沒有其他抵消或緩解因素或起點假設值得人們注意，對嗎？我的意思是，顯然，我們都在關注這個更高的價格。我只是想確保我們沒有遺漏任何東西。看起來每移動一美元就能帶來 1500 萬美元的 EBITDA。

Julien, I appreciate your math. We're really just not going to comment on the [$300 million], we've had that out there for a long time. I think we're going to leave it and address it at the beginning of next year after we report the full year.

朱利安，我很欣賞你的數學。我們真的不會對[3億美元]發表評論，我們已經討論了很長時間了。我認為我們將把這個問題留到明年年初，在我們報告全年情況後再解決。

All right. Fair enough. All right. I appreciate it.

好的。很公平。好的。我很感激。

Our next question comes from Tim Mulrooney with William Blair.

我們的下一個問題來自蒂姆·馬爾魯尼和威廉·布萊爾。

Most of my questions have been answered at this point. Just stepping back on a bigger picture thing here. I mean I think we've all seen a considerable increase in the dollar value of projects that you're bidding on and winning these days. Just wondering if you could help us understand, is that a reflection more of larger projects being proposed or the reflection of Ameresco purposely targeting larger projects that maybe you wouldn't have been on in the past?

至此，我的大部分問題都已得到解答。這裡只是回顧一下更大的圖景。我的意思是，我認為我們都看到這些天你競標並贏得的項目的美元價值大幅增加。只是想知道您是否可以幫助我們理解，這是否反映了更多正在提議的大型項目，或者反映了 Ameresco 有意針對您過去可能不會參與的大型項目？

I think [both a little bit], but the average size of the project we proposed right now, it's almost -- correct me if I'm wrong, that 50% up the size? Yes. So it's a need because the projects are getting more complex, and they incorporate -- involve not only energy efficiency, but solar, battery storage, microgrids and so on and so forth, they're getting larger and larger. And then, of course, I think the Southern California areas of projects help us a lot. So you saw we had 3 good wins on the battery storage side, which is a very good size project.

我認為 [兩者都有一點]，但是我們現在提議的項目的平均規模，幾乎——如果我錯了，請糾正我，規模擴大了 50%？是的。所以這是有必要的，因為項目變得越來越複雜，而且它們不僅涉及能源效率，還涉及太陽能、電池存儲、微電網等等，它們變得越來越大。當然，我認為南加州地區的項目對我們幫助很大。所以你看到我們在電池存儲方面取得了 3 場胜利，這是一個規模非常大的項目。

Okay. And can I just as a follow-up, different subject, but can I get your opinion on the state of the M&A environment, your pipeline and your appetite at this point in mid-2023 here?

好的。我可以作為一個後續的不同主題，但我可以在這裡了解您對 2023 年中期此時的併購環境、您的管道和您的興趣的看法嗎？

Our appetite continues to be good. We continue to look at them. And we're looking right now in Europe, of course, a little bit more aggressively, but in the United States as well. But they have to be accretive, and we are disciplined. And on the other hand, in order to grow your footprint, especially as you go overseas, much easier to get 30, 50 or 75 or 100 people than hiring one at a time. So (inaudible) paid for it, it's worth doing it.

我們的胃口仍然很好。我們繼續關注它們。當然，我們現在在歐洲的目光更加積極，但在美國也是如此。但它們必須是增值的，而我們是有紀律的。另一方面，為了擴大您的足跡，尤其是當您走向海外時，招募 30、50、75 或 100 人比一次僱用一個人要容易得多。所以（聽不清）為此付出了代價，這是值得的。

Our next question comes from Pavel Molchanov with Raymond James.

我們的下一個問題來自帕維爾·莫爾恰諾夫和雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Let me ask about CapEx. If we annualize your CapEx from the first half, the full year figure will be well over $500 million. Is that the way we should be thinking about the math? Or was the CapEx kind of overly front-end loaded?

讓我問一下資本支出。如果我們從上半年開始將您的資本支出按年計算，全年的數字將遠遠超過 5 億美元。我們應該這樣思考數學嗎？或者資本支出是否前端負荷過重？

Yes. I think, Pavel, it's fair to say that it probably was pretty heavily front-end loaded as we talked about the RNG plants that we have coming in this year and even the one that's going to be mechanically complete by the end of the year, substantial amounts of CapEx already spent on those. And not surprisingly, we've got a tremendous amount of nonrecourse financing that we've raised that we talked about in the script as well. So I don't think it's even-steven look at the 2 halves of the year. Yes.

是的。我認為，帕維爾，可以公平地說，當我們談論今年即將投入使用的 RNG 工廠，甚至是將於今年年底機械完成的工廠時，前端負載可能相當重，大量的資本支出已經花費在這些方面。毫不奇怪，我們已經籌集了大量的無追索權融資，我們也在劇本中談到了這一點。所以我不認為今年下半年的情況是均勻的。是的。

No, because of the timing of the implementation, especially of these larger projects, RNG and so on, it just changed than what it was before because in order to get the equipment on time, if you have to put the deposits down much earlier than you would otherwise have to do with transformers, all kinds of equipment that you have to make the down payment. So that's why we're skewed a little bit in the first half of the year.

不是，因為實施的時間安排，尤其是RNG等這些比較大的項目，只是比之前發生了一些變化，因為為了按時拿到裝備，如果你必須提前把押金存下來否則你就必須處理變壓器，各種你必須支付首付的設備。這就是為什麼我們在今年上半年有點傾斜。

Okay. Let me turn to Europe. It was just over a year ago that you guys announced the project in Bristol, which, I guess, in just nominal dollar terms is the largest project in Ameresco's history. Can you just get an update on what year 1 of that has been like?

好的。讓我談談歐洲。就在一年多前，你們宣布了布里斯托爾的項目，我想，以名義美元計算，這是 Ameresco 歷史上最大的項目。您能了解第一年的最新情況嗎？

We are doing work on them. I will say that them approving projects a little bit slower than what we had anticipated but you will see it picking up considerably next year -- the fourth quarter of this year and next year. But we have identified at least -- I think we mentioned it before, $400 million of projects in which we have found the financing associated with them, too. But again, you're dealing with the government, it takes time. But on the other hand, they are very, very happy with us. They have introduced us to several other cities in the U.K. that they might be interested in doing something similar.

我們正在研究它們。我想說的是，他們批准項目的速度比我們預期的要慢一些，但你會看到明年——今年第四季度和明年——項目的審批速度會大大加快。但我們至少已經確定了——我想我們之前提到過，我們也找到了與這些項目相關的融資 4 億美元的項目。但同樣，你是在與政府打交道，這需要時間。但另一方面，他們對我們非常非常滿意。他們向我們介紹了英國的其他幾個城市，他們可能有興趣做類似的事情。

Our next question comes from Christopher Souther from B. Riley.

我們的下一個問題來自 B. Riley 的 Christopher Souther。

I had a question around the United Power and Middle River Power, headwinds. Were those reflected in project-win awards for the quarter? I wasn't sure if the press release came out in July and then I just wanted to clarify that those were projects, not assets in development wins right?

我有一個關於聯合電力公司和中河電力公司的逆風問題。這些是否反映在本季度的項目獲獎獎項中？我不確定新聞稿是否在 7 月發布，然後我只是想澄清這些是項目，而不是開發中的資產，對吧？

Sorry, Chris, you mentioned United Power and Middle River?

抱歉，克里斯，您提到了 United Power 和 Middle River？

Yes, Middle River.

是的，中河。

Okay. So United Power is actually an asset, yes. So that's reflected in the battery piece where you look in the supplemental slides. And then the Middle River is a project.

好的。所以聯合動力實際上是一種資產，是的。這反映在您在補充幻燈片中看到的電池部分中。然後中河是一個項目。

Got it. Okay.

知道了。好的。

So that would be in the project backlog.

所以這將在項目積壓中。

Okay. Makes sense. So when we're looking at -- it seems like you guys are going to be pursuing kind of some of these larger size, lower IRR candidates, mostly on the storage side, it seems like -- I'm curious at what stage of development would you guys be looking to sell them? How much capital do you think you'd need for whatever is in the backlog or in the development pipeline there for ones you think that you probably end up selling at some point in construction? And how much of that kind of development pipeline is larger projects that are not necessarily the IRR you're looking for?

好的。說得通。因此，當我們考慮時，你們似乎將尋求一些規模較大、IRR 較低的候選人，主要是在存儲方面，我很好奇在哪個階段開發你們會想賣掉它們嗎？您認為您需要多少資金來處理積壓或正在開發的項目，以及您認為最終可能在建設過程中的某個時刻出售的項目？此類開發渠道中有多少是較大的項目，而這些項目不一定是您正在尋找的 IRR？

Yes. So I don't know that there's a CapEx number that I would put in there for that kind of category. Again, we're going to be relatively opportunistic about this to ensure that we get the right results and what we think has the most value for Ameresco, I would say optimal point, probably preconstruction. However, we've also varied from that theme as well in terms of when we would sell that.

是的。所以我不知道我會為此類類別添加一個資本支出數字。同樣，我們將對此採取相對機會主義態度，以確保我們獲得正確的結果以及我們認為對 Ameresco 最有價值的東西，我想說的是最佳點，可能是施工前。然而，我們在出售該產品的時間方面也與該主題有所不同。

On the Middle River Power, it's a -- we are not buying the batteries, the customer is buying the batteries and it's just a design build that particular project. And that project is pretty much, I would say, will probably start construction in the next couple of months.

在中河電力公司，我們不是購買電池，而是客戶購買電池，這只是該特定項目的設計。我想說，這個項目很可能會在未來幾個月內開始建設。

Okay. Very helpful. Congrats.

好的。很有幫助。恭喜。

Yes. And the United Power, is pretty advanced development.

是的。而聯合動力，是相當先進的發展。

Thank you. One moment for our next question. We have a question from Eric Stine with Craig-Hallum.

謝謝。請稍等一下我們的下一個問題。埃里克·斯坦向克雷格·哈勒姆提出了一個問題。

I'll just sneak one in here at the end here on energy storage. Now that you're -- it looks like you're going to own some of these going forward. Can you just talk about the decision or maybe what you would see as kind of an ideal project just because you've got different value streams from these assets versus some of your others? And maybe multiple value streams versus either selling the power or selling the gas. Anything that you could share along those lines would be great.

我會在最後偷偷地放一個關於能量存儲的東西。現在你——看來你未來將擁有其中一些。您能否談談您的決定，或者您認為理想的項目是什麼，因為您從這些資產中獲得的價值流與其他一些資產不同？也許還有多種價值流，而不是出售電力或出售天然氣。任何你能沿著這些思路分享的東西都會很棒。

So, I mean, we'll keep it short. We like capacity contracts -- that's really the fuel merchant revenue stream is better for us. We like the fixed capacity contracts. And if we can make the numbers work by virtue of looking at CapEx, looking at transportation, implementation speed with which we can get these things underway with their capacity contract, that's a better-looking thing for us. We're getting long-term service agreements from our battery manufacturers that help us with managing degradation and/or augmentation. And when you've got a fixed long-term capacity contract that really helps keep us comfortable. So I think that's the ideal.

所以，我的意思是，我們會保持簡短。我們喜歡產能合同——這確實是燃料商人的收入來源對我們來說更好。我們喜歡固定容量合同。如果我們能夠通過考慮資本支出、運輸、實施速度來使這些數字發揮作用，我們可以通過他們的容量合同來完成這些事情，這對我們來說是一件更好看的事情。我們正在從電池製造商那裡獲得長期服務協議，幫助我們管理退化和/或增強。當您擁有固定的長期產能合同時，這確實有助於讓我們感到舒適。所以我認為這是理想的。

And the return -- good return.

以及回報——良好的回報。

Obviously, meeting our return hurdles.

顯然，我們遇到了返回障礙。

Right. And the return. And so it's not necessarily size. I mean if it checks all the boxes and you've got that the capacity contract, you wouldn't shy away from something just because it's a particular size.

正確的。和回報。所以它不一定是大小。我的意思是，如果它檢查了所有的方框，並且您已經獲得了容量合同，您就不會僅僅因為它的特定尺寸而迴避某些東西。

That's right. I think in our asset and development metric, with solar and in storage or just storage stand-alone, you're going to see a variety of sizes of projects, right? Some of these -- some of the battery stores that we're buying for our behind-the-meter solar plus storage is a megawatt or less. And then as you saw from United Power, it's quite a bit larger. So we're good with the range. It's more about the metrics.

這是正確的。我認為，在我們的資產和開髮指標中，無論是太陽能還是儲能或獨立儲能，您都會看到各種規模的項目，對嗎？其中一些 - 我們為表後太陽能加存儲購買的一些電池存儲容量為兆瓦或更少。正如您從聯合電力公司看到的那樣，它的規模要大得多。所以我們對這個範圍很滿意。更多的是關於指標。

We have a follow-up question from Joseph Osha from Guggenheim.

我們有來自古根海姆的約瑟夫·奧沙的後續問題。

I had a follow-up. We talked a little bit about RINs and what is or is not going to happen. Depending on what happens, this is going to be a new RIN market. I'm wondering, do you guys think there will be enough of a market to hedge it initially? Or is this basically going to be something where you're just going to kind of monetize them as they become available. I'm just wondering what -- how you think that market is going to evolve, assuming we get what we want at EPA.

我有一個後續行動。我們討論了一些關於 RIN 以及將會發生或不會發生的事情。根據發生的情況，這將成為一個新的 RIN 市場。我想知道，你們認為最初會有足夠的市場來對沖嗎？或者這基本上是一種你只需在它們可用時就可以將它們貨幣化的東西。我只是想知道，假設我們在 EPA 得到了我們想要的東西，您認為市場將如何發展。

Joe, I think there's a lot of wood to chop there still for the EPA, but our understanding is that those RINs will be RINs. They will be the D3 RINs and that they will be needing to introduce an additional amount of RVO associated with that piece of it. But I don't know necessarily at this stage that they're going to create a separate market for the eRINs versus the D3 RINs. We don't know. But yes, I don't think we have enough clarity at this point, yes.

喬，我認為 EPA 仍有很多工作要做，但我們的理解是，這些 RIN 將是 RIN。它們將是 D3 RIN，並且需要引入與其相關的額外數量的 RVO。但現階段我不一定知道他們是否會為 eRIN 和 D3 RIN 創建一個單獨的市場。我們不知道。但是，是的，我認為我們目前還不夠明確，是的。

The only thing that we know that they definitely will do it. They are very serious about it. And as they go more and more, they want to electrify just about everything. And we are in a great, great situation because we have many assets at their landfill gas to electricity. So it will be a good tailwind for us. And if I...

我們唯一知道的是他們肯定會這麼做。他們對此非常認真。隨著他們的業務越來越多，他們希望幾乎所有東西都電氣化。我們的處境非常非常好，因為我們在垃圾填埋氣和電力方面擁有許多資產。所以這對我們來說將是一個很好的推動力。而如果我...

Sorry -- go ahead.

抱歉——繼續吧。

They say it will be done sooner than what people think it will be done because some people may say it will be late next year or so on. We anticipate it's going to be done much sooner than that.

他們說，這將比人們想像的更早完成，因為有些人可能會說會在明年晚些時候等。我們預計它會比這早得多完成。

But I guess if I -- what I'm trying to get at, how long after the -- what do you think is the gap between when they announce and when you get an actual functioning market given all of these additional questions?

但我想，如果我——我想了解什麼，多久之後——考慮到所有這些額外的問題，你認為他們宣布的時間和你得到一個實際運作的市場之間的差距是多少？

So what we know right now, it's '25.

所以我們現在知道的是 '25。

Yes. Joe, I think that's going to take some time. Yes because they're going to need to align it with the cycle of the calendar year...

是的。喬，我想這需要一些時間。是的，因為他們需要將其與日曆年的周期保持一致......

We wouldn't see anything until at least '25. Yes.

至少要到25年我們才能看到任何東西。是的。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

This does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連接。