Zions Bancorporation, National Association (ZION) 2026 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to Zions Bancorp's first-quarter earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to turn the conference over to Andrea Christoffersen. Thank you. You may begin.

各位好，歡迎參加 Zions Bancorp 第一季財報電話會議。(接線員指示) 請注意，本次會議將被錄音。現在我很榮幸將會議交給 Andrea Christoffersen。謝謝。您可以開始了。

Thank you, Julian, and good evening, everyone. Welcome to our conference call to discuss Zions Bancorporation's first-quarter 2026 results. My name is Andrea Christoffersen, Director of Investor Relations.

謝謝你，Julian，大家晚安。歡迎參加我們的電話會議，討論 Zions Bancorporation 2026 年第一季業績。我叫 Andrea Christoffersen，投資人關係總監。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that during this call, we will make forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially. We encourage you to review the forward-looking statements and non-GAAP disclosures in our press release and on slide 2 of today's presentation, which apply equally to statements made during this call. A copy of the earnings release and presentation are available at zionsbancorporation.com.

在開始之前，我想提醒各位，本次電話會議中我們將發表前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能會有重大差異。我們鼓勵您查閱新聞稿以及今日簡報第 2 頁中的前瞻性陳述與非 GAAP 揭露內容，這些同樣適用於本次電話會議中的陳述。財報新聞稿與簡報可於 zionsbancorporation.com 取得。

For our agenda today, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Harris Simmons, will provide opening remarks. Following Harris' comments, Chief Financial Officer, Ryan Richards, will review our financial results and outlook. Also with us today are Scott McLean, President and Chief Operating Officer; Derek Steward, Chief Credit Officer; and Chris Kyriakakis, Chief Risk Officer.

今天的議程如下：董事長兼執行長 Harris Simmons 將先發表開場致詞。在 Harris 的評論之後，財務長 Ryan Richards 將回顧我們的財務結果與展望。今天與會的還有營運總裁兼營運長 Scott McLean；信貸長 Derek Steward；以及風險長 Chris Kyriakakis。

After our prepared remarks, we will hold a question-and-answer session. This call is scheduled for one hour. I will now turn the time over to Harris.

在我們的準備發言結束後，將進行問答環節。本次電話會議預計為一小時。現在我把時間交給 Harris。

Thanks very much, Andrea, and good evening, everyone. We are reasonably pleased with our performance and financial results for the first quarter, which reflect meaningful year-over-year improvement and continued progress against our long-term strategic priorities.

非常感謝你，Andrea，大家晚安。我們對第一季的表現與財務結果感到相當滿意，這反映出顯著的年增改善，以及在我們長期策略優先事項上的持續進展。

Our Capital Markets division continues to be an important driver of fee income growth. Since launching the business in 2020, we have invested heavily in talent, technology and product capabilities, expanding our presence,investment banking, sales and trading and real estate capital markets. In late March, we announced an agreement with Basis Investment Group to acquire their Fannie and Freddie lending programs, related mortgage servicing rights, and an experienced team supporting those platforms. Subject to regulatory and customary closing approvals, we expect the transaction will meaningfully enhance our ability to serve commercial real estate clients across the Western United States and beyond, and to further strengthen our capital markets franchise.

我們的資本市場事業部持續是手續費收入成長的重要驅動力。自 2020 年啟動該業務以來，我們在人才、科技與產品能力上投入大量資源，擴大我們在投資銀行、銷售與交易以及不動產資本市場的布局。在 3 月下旬，我們宣布與 Basis Investment Group 達成協議，收購其房利美（Fannie）與房地美（Freddie）放款方案、相關的抵押貸款服務權（MSR），以及支援這些平台的資深團隊。在取得監管核准及完成慣常交割條件後，我們預期此交易將顯著提升我們服務美國西部及其他地區商用不動產客戶的能力，並進一步強化我們的資本市場平台。

We continue to invest in our consumer and small business franchises. Following the launch of our new gold accounts consumer deposit products in the second half of 2025. We recently introduced its companion offering for small business customers, branded as beyond the business. We began piloting the product in Colorado and Arizona late in the quarter, and it's expected to roll out more broadly across our affiliate banks later this quarter.

我們持續投資於消費金融與小型企業業務。在 2025 年下半年推出全新的 gold accounts 消費者存款產品之後，我們近期也為小型企業客戶推出其配套方案，品牌名稱為 beyond the business。我們在本季末於科羅拉多州與亞利桑那州開始試點，並預計在本季稍晚於旗下關係銀行更廣泛推出。

This tiered checking solution is designed to support clients, as they grow from basic banking needs to more complex cash flow and money movement capabilities. Our focus on small business is also reflected in continued momentum in SBA lending, where we now rank 11th nationally in SBA 7(a) loan approvals during the first half of the SBA's fiscal year.

此分級支票帳戶解決方案旨在支援客戶從基本銀行需求成長到更複雜的現金流管理與資金移轉能力。我們對小型企業的聚焦也反映在 SBA 放款的持續動能上；在 SBA 會計年度上半年，我們在 SBA 7(a) 貸款核准量全美排名第 11。

Shifting now to the financial results for the quarter. Slide 3 presents certain first quarter results versus the prior quarter and prior year. Third quarter results reflected typical seasonal expense patterns, while revenue and profitability improved meaningfully relative to the prior year period. Net earnings were $232 million or $1.56 per diluted share, up 37% from a year ago, driven by revenue growth, a lower provision for credit losses and a lower effective tax rate.

接著談本季財務結果。投影片第 3 頁呈現第一季部分結果，並與前一季及去年同期比較。第三季結果反映典型的季節性費用型態，而營收與獲利相較去年同期有顯著改善。淨利為 2.32 億美元，稀釋後每股盈餘 1.56 美元，較去年同期成長 37%，主要受惠於營收成長、信用損失提存較低，以及有效稅率較低。

Compared to the fourth quarter of 2025, earnings declined 11%, primarily reflecting lower revenue, including the impact of two fewer days in the period and significantly lower securities gains, as well as seasonal compensation expenses. The net interest margin was 3.27%, down 4 basis points from the prior quarter, reflecting lower earned asset yields, and a decline and average demand deposits partially offset by improved funding costs.

與 2025 年第四季相比，獲利下滑 11%，主要反映營收較低，包括期間少了兩天的影響，以及證券處分利益顯著下降，另加上季節性薪酬費用。淨利差為 3.27%，較前一季下降 4 個基點，反映生息資產收益率下降，以及平均活期存款下滑；部分由資金成本改善所抵銷。

Average loans grew 2.4% on an annualized basis, led by commercial lending. While average customer deposits showed a modest seasonal decline, period end customer deposits grew $1.3 billion or 1.8% from year-end. Credit losses were very modest 3 basis points annualized of average loans.

平均放款以年化基礎成長 2.4%，主要由商業放款帶動。雖然平均客戶存款出現小幅季節性下滑，但期末客戶存款較年末增加 13 億美元或 1.8%。信用損失非常輕微，按平均放款年化僅 3 個基點。

On slide 4, diluted earnings per share were $1.56, down from $1.76 in the prior quarter and up from $1.13 a year ago. As a reminder, the year-ago quarter included an $0.11 per share headwind related to the revaluation of deferred tax assets due to newly enacted state tax legislation. There were no notable items in the first quarter with an impact greater than $0.05 per share.

在投影片第 4 頁，稀釋後每股盈餘為 1.56 美元，較前一季的 1.76 美元下降，但較去年同期的 1.13 美元上升。提醒各位，去年同期包含每股 0.11 美元的不利因素，係因新頒布的州稅法導致遞延所得稅資產重新估值。第一季沒有任何對每股影響超過 0.05 美元的重大項目。

As shown on slide 5, adjusted pre-provision net revenue was $301 million, declined from the prior quarter, reflecting some of the items noted earlier, including a slightly lower day count adjusted tax equivalent net interest income. Pre-provision net revenue increased 13% versus the year ago quarter on improved revenue and positive operating leverage.

如投影片第 5 頁所示，調整後提存前淨收益為 3.01 億美元，較前一季下降，反映先前提到的部分因素，包括經調整日數後、以應稅等值計算的淨利息收入略低。提存前淨收益較去年同期增加 13%，受惠於營收改善與正向營運槓桿。

With that overview, I'll turn the call over to our Chief Financial Officer, Ryan Richards, to walk through the quarter in more detail and to walk through our outlook. Ryan?

以上為概述，接下來我把電話會議交給我們的財務長 Ryan Richards，請他更詳細說明本季表現並說明我們的展望。Ryan？

Thank you, Harris, and good evening, everyone. Beginning on slide 6, you can see the five-quarter trend for net interest income and net interest margin. Taxable equivalent net interest income was $662 million, down $21 million or 3% from the prior quarter and of $38 million or 6% in the year ago quarter. Earning asset yields fell faster than funding costs for the quarter, most notably in January, and loan repricing reflected the impact of the December rate cuts. Term deposit costs also go lower, but with a lag over the quarter. Net interest margin was 3.27%, down 4 basis points linked quarter and up 17 basis points year over year.

謝謝你，Harris，大家晚安。從投影片第 6 頁開始，您可以看到淨利息收入與淨利差的五季趨勢。以應稅等值計算的淨利息收入為 6.62 億美元，較前一季減少 2,100 萬美元或 3%，較去年同期減少 3,800 萬美元或 6%。本季生息資產收益率下滑速度快於資金成本，最明顯是在 1 月；放款重訂價反映 12 月降息的影響。定期存款成本也走低，但在本季呈現滯後反應。淨利差為 3.27%，較前一季下降 4 個基點，較去年同期上升 17 個基點。

Slide 7 provides additional detail on the drivers of net interest margin. The linked quarter walks reflect the lower asset yields mentioned previously as well as a lower contribution from average demand deposit balances. These factors were partially offset by improved deposit costs. Year over year, the improvement in margin primarily reflects deposit and borrowing repricing and our continued focus on optimizing the balance sheet.

投影片第 7 頁提供淨利差驅動因素的更多細節。與前一季相較的變動，反映前述較低的資產收益率，以及平均活期存款餘額貢獻下降。這些因素部分由存款成本改善所抵銷。年對年而言，利差改善主要反映存款與借款重訂價，以及我們持續專注於最佳化資產負債表。

For the first quarter of 2027, our outlook for net interest income is moderately increasing given the uncertain path of benchmark rates. The forward curve as of March 31 assumed no rate changes over the next 12 months. As that plays out, we estimate net interest income growth of about 7% to 8%, which would exceed our guide.

針對 2027 年第一季，由於基準利率走勢仍不確定，我們對淨利息收入的展望為溫和增加。截至 3 月 31 日的遠期曲線假設未來 12 個月利率不變。在此情境下，我們估計淨利息收入成長約 7% 至 8%，將高於我們的指引。

Moving to non-interest income on slide 8. Customer-related non-interest income was $172 million compared to $177 million in the prior quarter and $158 million a year ago. Excluding the credit valuation adjustment, adjusted customer-related noninterest income was $174 million compared with $175 million in the prior -quarter and up $16 million, or 10% from the year ago quarter.

接著看第 8 張投影片的非利息收入。與客戶相關的非利息收入為 1.72 億美元，較前一季的 1.77 億美元下降，較去年同期的 1.58 億美元增加。若排除信用評價調整（CVA），調整後的與客戶相關非利息收入為 1.74 億美元，較前一季的 1.75 億美元略低，並較去年同期增加 1,600 萬美元（約 10%）。

We are particularly pleased with the broad-based growth achieved during the quarter relative to the last year, which reflects higher residential mortgage loan sales activity and growth in retail and business banking, commercial account and wealth management fees. We continue to see attractive opportunity in capital markets and have strong pipelines going into the second quarter.

我們特別高興本季相較去年同期達成廣泛性的成長，反映住宅房貸銷售活動增加，以及零售與企業銀行、商業帳戶與財富管理手續費的成長。我們持續在資本市場看到具吸引力的機會，且進入第二季時管線相當強勁。

For the first quarter of 2027, our outlook for adjusted customer-related fee income is moderately increasing versus the first quarter 2026 results of $174 million. With broad-based growth and capital markets continue to contribute in an outsized way. We currently expect results towards the top end of that range.

就 2027 年第一季而言，我們對調整後與客戶相關的手續費收入展望，較 2026 年第一季的 1.74 億美元呈溫和上升。在廣泛性成長之下，資本市場也將以更顯著的方式持續貢獻。目前我們預期結果將落在該區間的上緣。

Turning to slide 9. Adjusted noninterest expense was $558 million. Expenses increased versus the prior quarter, driven primarily by seasonal compensation and were higher year over year, reflecting increased marketing, technology costs, professional and outsourced services, and higher incentive compensation. We will continue to manage expenses prudently, while investing to support growth.

接著看第 9 張投影片。調整後非利息費用為 5.58 億美元。費用較前一季增加，主要受季節性薪酬影響；年增則反映行銷、科技成本、專業與外包服務增加，以及較高的獎勵性薪酬。我們將在投資以支持成長的同時，持續審慎管理費用。

Our first quarter 2027 outlook for adjusted noninterest expense is moderately increasing versus the first quarter of 2026. Based on first quarter performance and full year expectations, we continue to expect positive operating leverage for full year 2026 in the range of 100 to 150 basis points.

我們對 2027 年第一季調整後非利息費用的展望，較 2026 年第一季呈溫和上升。基於第一季表現與全年預期，我們仍預期 2026 全年將呈現正向營運槓桿，幅度約為 100 至 150 個基點。

Slide 10 presents trends in average loans and deposits. Average loans grew 2.4% annualized during the quarter, primarily within the commercial and industrial portfolio and increased 2.5% year over year. Loan yields declined sequentially as benchmark rate cuts in the latter part of 2025 were reflected in variable rate repricing.

第 10 張投影片呈現平均放款與存款的趨勢。本季平均放款以年化計成長 2.4%，主要來自商業與工業（C&I）投資組合，且年增 2.5%。由於 2025 年後段的基準利率調降反映在浮動利率重定價上，放款收益率較前期下滑。

Average deposits were modestly lower than the prior quarter by $540 million. Approximately one-half of the decline was due to average broker deposits, while the remainder can be attributed to seasonal runoff across business operating accounts early in the quarter. Importantly, period-end customer deposits increased by $1.3 billion or 1.8% from year-end. The cost of total deposits declined sequentially, benefiting from both repricing and a more favorable mix within interest-bearing deposits.

平均存款較前一季小幅下降 5.40 億美元。約一半的降幅來自平均經紀存款，其餘則可歸因於本季初企業營運帳戶的季節性流出。重要的是，期末客戶存款較年末增加 13 億美元，增幅 1.8%。總存款成本較前期下降，受惠於重定價以及計息存款組合更為有利。

Slide 11 presents the five-quarter trend of our average and ending funding sources. Our total funding costs declined 8 basis points linked quarter to 1.68%, largely as a result of the aforementioned deposit repricing. Period end customer deposits grew $1.3 billion and short-term borrowings declined significantly as we continue to replace higher cost wholesale funding with customer positive growth and series cash flows while also remixing into senior debt.

第 11 張投影片呈現我們平均與期末資金來源的五季趨勢。我們的總資金成本較前一季下降 8 個基點至 1.68%，主要是前述存款重定價所致。期末客戶存款增加 13 億美元，而短期借款大幅下降；我們持續以客戶存款的正向成長與系列現金流取代成本較高的批發資金，同時也重新配置至優先債務。

Turning to slide 12. The investment securities portfolio continues to serve as an important source of on-balance sheet liquidity and a tool to balance interest rate risk through deep access to the repo markets. During the quarter, principal and prepayment-related cash flows from investment securities of $493 million were partially offset by reinvestment of $299 million. The continued paydown of ore yielding mortgage-backed securities supports earning asset remix or reduction in wholesale funds. The estimated price sensitivity of the portfolio, inclusive of hedging activity was 3.7 years.

接著看第 12 張投影片。投資證券投資組合持續作為資產負債表內流動性的重要來源，並透過深度進入附買回（repo）市場，作為平衡利率風險的工具。本季投資證券本金與提前償還相關現金流為 4.93 億美元，其中部分被 2.99 億美元的再投資所抵銷。持續償還收益率較低的抵押擔保證券，有助於收益資產重新配置或降低批發資金。該投資組合（含避險活動）的估計價格敏感度為 3.7 年。

Credit quality remained strong, as shown on slide 13. Net charge-offs were 3 basis points annualized of average loans and the nonperforming assets ratio declined to 48 basis points. Classified and criticized balances also declined during the quarter. The allowance for credit losses ended the quarter at 1.16% and remains well positioned relative to our risk profile with a 239% coverage of nonaccrual loans.

如第 13 張投影片所示，信用品質仍然強勁。淨沖銷以年化計為平均放款的 3 個基點，不良資產比率下降至 48 個基點。分類與受批評餘額在本季亦下降。信用損失準備金於季末為 1.16%，相對於我們的風險概況仍屬充足，對非應計放款的覆蓋率為 239%。

Slide 14 provides an overview of our $13.7 billion commercial real estate portfolio, which represents approximately 22% of total loans. The portfolio remains granular and well diversified by property type and geography with conservative loan-to-value characteristics. Credit metrics remain favorable, including low levels of nonaccruals and delinquencies.

第 14 張投影片概述我們 137 億美元的商用不動產投資組合，約占總放款的 22%。該投資組合仍具細分度且依物業類型與地理區域高度分散，並具保守的貸款價值比（LTV）特性。信用指標仍然有利，包括非應計與逾期水準偏低。

Our capital position remains strong, as shown on slide 15. The Common Equity Tier 1 ratio was 11.5%, and flat during the quarter as earnings growth was somewhat offset by the $77 million in common shares repurchased and dividends paid in addition to the growth in risk-weighted assets. We continue to expect net capital generation to earnings and continued improvement in AOCI. Tangible book value per share increased 19% versus the prior year, reflecting earnings generation and continued balance sheet normalization.

如第 15 張投影片所示，我們的資本部位仍然強勁。普通股權第一類資本（CET1）比率為 11.5%，本季持平；因獲利成長部分被 7,700 萬美元的普通股回購與股利發放，以及風險加權資產成長所抵銷。我們仍預期淨資本生成將與獲利相符，且 AOCI 將持續改善。每股有形帳面價值較去年增加 19%，反映獲利創造與資產負債表持續正常化。

Slide 16 summarizes the outlook we've discussed across loans, net interest income, fee income and expenses. This outlook reflects our best estimate based on current information and is subject to the risks and uncertainties discussed in our forward-looking statements.

第 16 張投影片彙總我們就放款、淨利息收入、手續費收入與費用所討論的展望。此展望反映我們基於目前資訊的最佳估計，並受我們前瞻性聲明中所述之風險與不確定性影響。

This concludes our prepared remarks. As we move to the question-and-answer section of the call, we request that you limit your questions to one primary and one follow-up question to enable other participants to ask their questions.

以上為我們事先準備的發言。接下來進入電話會議的問答環節，我們請各位將問題限制為一個主要問題與一個追問，以便讓其他與會者也能提問。

Julian, please open the line for questions.

Julian，請開放提問線路。

(Operator Instructions) John Pancari, Evercore ISI.

（接線員指示）John Pancari，Evercore ISI。

Good afternoon. Just on the margin side, I know your loan yield compressed about 14 basis points linked quarter. I think you had mentioned that it was largely a function of the rate cuts and variable rate repricing. I guess that linked quarter change. Was that all the benchmark rate change? Any other impact to loan yields in the quarter? And maybe if you can give us your new loan yields, just to give us an idea where originations are coming on the books?

午安。就利差方面，我知道你們的放款收益率本季較前一季壓縮約 14 個基點。我想你們提到主要是因為降息以及浮動利率重定價。我想確認一下，這個季對季的變動是否全部都來自基準利率的變化？本季放款收益率還有其他影響因素嗎？另外，如果可以的話，能否提供新承作放款的收益率，讓我們了解新發放放款入帳時的水準？

Hey. Thanks, John. Really appreciate that. Yes. So listen, I think you picked up on the main thrust of it. So we would have had some benchmark repricing and expectation of the rate cut that came in the middle of December, and some of that trailed thereafter. And where we remain just skewing a little bit more on the asset-sensitive side that, that was the biggest contributor.

嗨。謝謝你，John。非常感謝。是的。我想你抓到主要重點了。我們確實有一些基準利率的重定價，以及對 12 月中旬那次降息的預期，其中部分影響在之後才逐步反映。而由於我們仍稍微偏向資產敏感型，這是最大的貢獻因素。

In terms of the repricing crisis, of course, we've got the right material our appendix that I know you're familiar with, but I think maybe the question that you're getting at on front book versus back book for the loan portfolio is really the most meaningful part of that as we sort of think of trajectory moving forward is for those fixed rate loan portfolios or things that have yet to reprice through. And there, we're seeing a 72-basis point spread on the front load vis-a-vis the backlog.

就重定價的細節而言，當然，我們在附錄裡有合適的資料，我知道你很熟悉；但我想你真正想問的，可能是放款投資組合中新承作（front book）相對於存量（back book）的差異，因為在我們思考未來走勢時，這對那些固定利率放款投資組合或尚未完成重定價的部位最具意義。在那部分，我們看到新承作相對於存量的利差為 72 個基點。

Okay. All right. And then, I guess, in terms of your operating leverage expectation of 100 to 150 basis points, that's for the year. And so what rate assumption does that imply? I know you mentioned if there's no rate changes consistent with the forward curve, your next 12-month NII outlook come in at 7% to 8% above the range. Does that 100 to 150 basis points expectation imply the forward curve? And maybe if you can give us a little bit more detail in terms of that NII expectation?

好的。好。然後，我想，就您對營運槓桿預期為100到150個基點而言，那是針對全年。那麼這隱含的是什麼利率假設？我知道您提到，如果沒有符合遠期曲線的利率變動，您未來12個月的淨利息收入（NII）展望會落在該區間之上7%到8%。那這個100到150個基點的預期是否隱含遠期曲線？另外，您是否能就該NII預期提供更多細節？

Yeah. Thank you for that, John. Listen, in the past, we've brought a view of kind of late and emergent. It's less interesting this quarter since there's not much to talk about in the forward curve in terms of rate changes that were applied at least as of the quarter end. So those are kind of right on top of each other.

是的。謝謝你，John。聽著，過去我們會提出一個偏向較晚、逐步浮現的看法。但本季就沒那麼有意思，因為就遠期曲線而言，至少截至季末，幾乎沒有可談的利率變動被納入。所以兩者基本上幾乎重疊。

So we were able to firm up our guide for the full year. As you sort of think about the trajectory of that, we normally guide on a one-year quarter basis. We believe you'll see there is a much more powerful positive operating leverage, probably not unlike what we've seen this quarter relative to last quarter, where and Harris' quoted in his remarks, you will see positive operating leverage of 270 basis points.

因此我們得以更明確地確立全年指引。當你思考其走勢時，我們通常以一年、按季度的基礎來提供指引。我們相信你會看到更強勁的正向營運槓桿，可能不亞於我們本季相較上季所見的情況；正如Harris在他的發言中所引用的，你將會看到270個基點的正向營運槓桿。

So we think that as our repricing plays through from the investment securities into loans, as we have less of those headwinds associated with our terminated swaps. Some of the other things play through. We do see really good prospects for one year fourth quarter.

因此我們認為，隨著我們的重定價從投資證券逐步傳導到貸款，且與已終止的交換合約相關的逆風減少，以及其他一些因素逐步發酵。我們確實看到一年期、第四季有非常好的前景。

Later when we were with you, we were anticipating as part of our sensitivity in our guidance that we could have had great cuts. I think we were anticipating in June and September. And based upon the forward curve, those are now off the table. So that, having no cuts is admitted into our full year positive operating leverage guide.

先前我們與各位交流時，我們在指引的敏感度分析中預期可能會有較大幅度的降息。我想我們當時預期會在6月與9月。但根據遠期曲線，這些現在都不再成立。因此，「沒有降息」已被納入我們全年正向營運槓桿指引之中。

Manan Gosalia, Morgan Stanley.

Manan Gosalia，摩根士丹利。

Hi, good afternoon. On the deposit cost side, deposit costs, I guess, they came down quarter on quarter, but they were pretty flat relative to the spot rate as of December 31. And it looks like the spot rate as of March 31 has moved lower again.

嗨，下午好。在存款成本方面，我想存款成本本季較上季下降，但相對於12月31日的即期利率其實相當持平。而且看起來3月31日的即期利率又再度走低。

So can you just help us connect the dots on the trajectory there? Maybe give us an update on deposit pricing and competition and also what you're expecting in terms of CD roles coming up?

所以你能否幫我們把這個走勢串起來？也許更新一下存款定價與競爭情況，以及你們對即將到期的定存（CD）續作/到期滾動的預期？

Hey, thank you for that, Manan. And I'll try to unpack that in places and invite my colleagues to jump in as well. Listen, I think -- and I've seen the questions coming in other calls in this earnings cycle about where deposit costs go if rates kind of stay static here for the remainder of the year. There's still some trailing activities, some repricing down on term deposits, thinking about customer time deposits that yet to play through. So that would definitely be an element of this.

嘿，謝謝你，Manan。我會嘗試分幾個面向拆解，也邀請我的同事一起補充。聽著，我想——而且我也看到在這一輪財報季的其他電話會議中，有人問到：如果利率在今年剩餘時間大致維持不變，存款成本會走向何方。仍有一些滯後效應，例如定期存款的下調重定價，特別是客戶的定期存款，尚未完全反映。所以這肯定會是其中一個因素。

You will have heard us talking increasingly quarter over quarter. And when you catch us at conferences about some of our strategic initiatives. We think that those are going to be really valuable to us and driving deposit balances as well. So you heard Harris talk about in his prepared remarks, the gold account, the business beyond, there's a lot that we've talked about with SBA lending that brings deposits with us.

你會聽到我們一季比一季更常談到，以及你在各種會議上遇到我們時，我們的一些策略性舉措。我們認為這些對我們非常有價值，也會帶動存款餘額。所以你也聽到Harris在事先準備的發言中提到黃金帳戶（gold account）、Business Beyond；另外我們也談了很多SBA放款，這些業務會把存款一併帶進來。

We think that's useful. There's some other work we've been doing around wholesale deposits with customers relative to other sources of wholesale funding that we think can defray deposit costs moving forward. So while we don't have explicit deposit guidance, then we don't explicitly guide towards deposit costs. All of that would be embedded into our -- I believe, to be very constructive for your NII guidance. I think there's a deposit proposition comment on that to.

我們認為這很有幫助。此外，我們也在批發存款方面做了一些工作，針對客戶端相較於其他批發資金來源的選擇，我們認為這能在未來抵銷部分存款成本。因此，雖然我們沒有提供明確的存款指引，也不會明確指引存款成本，但我相信這些都已內嵌在我們的——我認為，對你的NII指引是相當建設性的。我想在存款主張（deposit proposition）方面也可以補充一下。

Yeah. Manan, this is Scott McLean. And I would just add to that, that this deposit campaign we've had going on to bring some of our off-balance sheet deposits back on balance sheet. We've got anywhere from $7 billion to $12 billion in off-balance sheet costs and it's really just a client decision as to where they want to sit.

是的。Manan，我是Scott McLean。我再補充一點：我們一直在推動一項存款活動，把部分表外存款帶回表內。我們大約有70億到120億美元的表外存款，這其實主要取決於客戶決定他們想把資金放在哪裡。

But we've been successful at bringing more of those back on balance sheet at rates that are attractive, they're accretive versus brokered deposits and overnight cost of borrowings. At various points of time, we focused on that. And so we've been very successful at bringing those deposits back on. And all of it is, I would say, 25 to 30, 35 basis points accretive to brokered deposits. You'll see us continue to do that.

但我們已成功把更多這類存款帶回表內，而且利率條件具吸引力；相較於經紀存款（brokered deposits）與隔夜借款成本，這些存款是具增益（accretive）的。在不同時間點，我們會聚焦於這件事。因此我們在把這些存款帶回表內方面非常成功。而且我會說，整體相較經紀存款大約有25到30、甚至35個基點的增益。你會看到我們會持續這麼做。

And in terms of deposit costs in general, it's I'm not sure if everything time it wasn't real competitive other than maybe 2020 and 2021. But we -- all of these -- almost all of this, our relationship deposits that we're bringing on. And it's not just coming from off balance sheet. Quite a bit is coming from new clients or existing clients that we didn't have their deposits to begin with. So --

至於一般的存款成本，我不確定是否曾有哪段時間不算競爭激烈，除了也許2020年和2021年。但我們——這些——幾乎全部都是我們帶進來的關係型存款（relationship deposits）。而且不只是從表外帶回來。相當一部分來自新客戶，或是既有客戶——我們原本並沒有拿到他們的存款。所以--

Got it. I appreciate the color there. And then maybe on the buyback side, buybacks were up this quarter, but the CET1 ratio is still relatively flat as you accrete more capital through earnings. So maybe if you can talk about the level of buybacks that you think you can do for the rest of the year, especially as you narrow the gap with peers in that CET1 including AOCI ratio?

了解。謝謝你提供這些細節。另外在庫藏股回購方面，本季回購增加，但隨著你們透過獲利累積更多資本，CET1比率仍相對持平。所以你能否談談你們認為今年剩餘時間可進行的回購規模，特別是在你們縮小與同業在CET1（含AOCI）比率差距之際？

Manan, thank you. I think you said that very well because our nominal CET1 ratio has been kind of hanging in there. And as we said before, we see the path for AOCI coming in is becoming unreasonably predictably over time and something that's really contributed to our kind of outperformance on tangible book value add year over year.

Manan，謝謝你。我覺得你說得很好，因為我們名目上的CET1比率一直算是維持住。而且如我們先前所說，我們看到AOCI回收（coming in）的路徑，隨時間推進變得相當可預測——甚至可說是過度可預測——而這也確實促成了我們有形帳面價值（tangible book value）年增表現的相對優異。

So I think those all things are encouraging. We've also taken note of the Basel III end game proposal. As others have noted in this earnings cycle. There are some good things in that proposal for us and others, in terms of what it would imply about RWA moving forward. So I never like to get in front of our Board, Head of our Board. It's usually a pretty poor practice for management, but it looks like it.

所以我認為這些都是令人鼓舞的。我們也注意到巴塞爾協定III最終方案（Basel III end game）的提案。正如本輪財報季其他人所提到的。該提案中有一些對我們以及其他機構有利的部分，就其對未來風險加權資產（RWA）變動的含意而言。因此我一向不喜歡搶在我們董事會、董事長之前表態。對管理層而言這通常是很不好的做法，但看起來確實如此。

We could be in a position to talk about share repurchases moving forward responsibly as our Board will allow and as regulators sign off. As Harris mentioned during his remarks, we're really, really excited about the acquisition of the multifamily agency program that's still pending, it's pending regulatory approvals. Should that see all the way through, as we expect, not knowing the time line for all that, not trying to predict any of that.

在董事會允許且監管機關核准的前提下，我們未來有機會以負責任的方式討論股票回購。正如 Harris 在發言中提到的，我們對仍在進行中的多戶住宅機構業務計畫收購案感到非常、非常興奮；目前仍待監管核准。若該案如我們預期順利完成——但我們不清楚整體時程，也不打算預測。

That would be a source of consuming capital. But there's some other things that are happening in the environment, including things like these exchanges that could be considered by our team as well. So that's a long-winded way of saying, I think the prospect of share repurchases are still on the table, subject to Board approval.

那將會是資本的消耗來源。但環境中也還有其他事情正在發生，包括像這些交換交易（exchanges）之類，也可能會被我們團隊納入考量。所以，長話短說，我認為股票回購的可能性仍在檯面上，但需經董事會核准。

Great, I'll step back. Thank you.

很好，我先退一步。謝謝。

Dave Rochester, Cantor Fitzgerald.

Dave Rochester，Cantor Fitzgerald。

Hey, good afternoon, guys. On the guidance, I know we shifted back to the one year ahead quarter-over-quarter look. I was curious how you feel about the annual guide for '26 you gave last time. It seems like given everything that you're saying together, you would still feel pretty good about that and maybe with a little bit of upside. Is that fair?

嘿，大家下午好。關於指引（guidance），我知道我們又回到以未來一年、逐季（quarter-over-quarter）的方式來看。我想問的是，你們怎麼看上次給的 2026 年年度指引？看起來把你們現在講的這些放在一起，你們應該仍然對那個指引相當有信心，甚至可能還有一點上行空間。這樣理解合理嗎？

Yeah. Dave, I think it's a reasonable observation, particularly given my earlier comments here about having those two rate cuts off the table that we would have been talking about last quarter. So definitely -- I mean, we don't make a practice of doing this all the way through the year, but firming up that the things that we talked about last quarter were better.

是的。Dave，我覺得這是合理的觀察，尤其考量我先前提到的：原本上季我們會討論的兩次降息，現在已不在假設之中。所以確實——我的意思是，我們不會在一年中一直這樣做，但可以更明確地說，我們上季談到的那些事情，現在看起來是更好的。

Yeah. Yeah. Sounds good. Maybe just as a follow-up on the loan outlook. I was wondering how things were shaping up in 2Q at this point. How does the pipeline look overall heading into the quarter versus where you started beginning of the last quarter? And what are you seeing on the C&I front that has you excited? And maybe if you could talk about a little bit of a pullback on the consumer, that would be great. Thanks.

好。好。聽起來不錯。再追問一下貸款展望。我想了解目前第二季（2Q）的情況進展如何。相較於上一季初，你們進入本季時整體案源（pipeline）看起來如何？另外，在工商貸款（C&I）方面，你們看到哪些讓你們感到興奮的訊號？如果也能談談消費端略有收縮的情況就更好了。謝謝。

Sure. Dave, this is Derek. The pipelines looking healthy actually at this point. We're seeing activity in small business, middle market, corporate banking syndications. Just general C&I, we're just seeing lots of activity.

當然。Dave，我是 Derek。目前案源其實看起來很健康。我們看到小型企業、中型市場、企業金融聯貸（corporate banking syndications）都有活動。一般的工商貸款（C&I）方面，我們也看到很多活動。

Another thing that's coming back is we're seeing increased CRE activity. We're cautious there, but we are seeing increased activity as some of the markets have reached more stabilization. And so I think we'll continue to see growth coming from those areas. So probably pricing pressure on CRE. I mean I pear people talking about the you're seeing as much pricing pressure in CRE as they've seen for some time.

另外一個回溫的是，我們看到商用不動產（CRE）活動增加。我們在那裡仍保持謹慎，但確實看到一些市場更趨穩定後，活動有所提升。因此我認為成長會持續來自這些領域。所以 CRE 可能會有定價壓力。我的意思是，我聽到大家在談，你們在 CRE 看到的定價壓力，已經是好一段時間以來最明顯的。

I would -- Dave, I would just add also, and I made this comment at the RBC conference back in early March that I think investors increasingly really need to peel back the onion on the type of loan growth that banks are producing. The NBFI kind of issue that has sprung up has just -- I mean, there are massive differences in bank's reliance on NBFI growth.

Dave，我再補充一點——我在 3 月初的 RBC 會議上也提過，我認為投資人愈來愈需要把銀行所產生的貸款成長類型「剝洋蔥」看清楚。近來冒出的非銀行金融機構（NBFI）議題——我的意思是，各家銀行對 NBFI 成長的依賴程度差異非常大。

It should be a good asset clients for many, many reasons. Managed responsibly, as you know, for us, as we report, it's about $2 billion of our portfolio outstandings and has not grown in five years. And you can see that our peers are -- and banks smaller and larger pretty much going down these loans just as there has been a difference in CRE growth.

這對許多人來說應該會是很好的資產類別，原因很多很多。如你所知，若以負責任方式管理，對我們而言——依我們揭露——約占我們投資組合未償餘額的 20 億美元，而且五年來沒有成長。你也可以看到，我們的同業——不論規模較小或較大——在這類貸款上的走向差異很大，就像 CRE 成長也存在差異一樣。

And so I think what investors if they'll really peel back the onion will find that if they're worried about NBFI, if they're worried about rapid CRE growth, if they're worried about personal unsecured lending, that's not us. So again, I think it just requires a little more investigation of the topic.

所以我認為，若投資人真的把它「剝洋蔥」看清楚，就會發現：如果他們擔心 NBFI、擔心 CRE 快速成長、擔心個人無擔保放款，那些都不是我們。因此我再說一次，這個議題需要更深入一點的研究。

Yeah. All right. Great. Thanks, guys.

好。好。很好。謝謝各位。

Bernard Von Gizycki, Deutsche Bank.

Bernard Von Gizycki，德意志銀行（Deutsche Bank）。

Hey, guys, goodmorning -- good afternoon. Sorry. I know we're talking about deposit ounces earlier. You had a nice pickup in the non-interest-bearing deposits of about $1.3 billion versus 4Q. I believe the migration of the legacy gold accounts was done last quarter.

嘿，各位，早安——呃，下午好，抱歉。抱歉。我知道我們先前在談存款的盎司（deposit ounces）。相較於第四季（4Q），你們的無計息存款增加了約 13 億美元，表現不錯。我記得傳統 gold 帳戶的遷移在上一季就完成了。

But Harris, you mentioned the rolling out of the companion offering for small business customers beyond the business. Just what drove the sequential increase? And any color you can share on customer acquisitions on the goal and the beyond the business accounts for the quarter?

不過 Harris，你提到針對小型企業客戶推出的 companion 方案，延伸到 beyond the business。那麼，這次的季增主要是什麼驅動因素？另外，能否分享一下本季在 gold 與 beyond the business 帳戶的客戶獲取（acquisitions）情況？

Yeah. So first of all, I have -- I'm dyslexic with this product. It's actually a business beyond that's what we in the product is called. And I can't read my own words here on the front page.

是的。首先，我對這個產品有點閱讀障礙。其實它叫做 business beyond——這就是我們產品的名稱。我在首頁上連自己寫的字都讀錯了。

But the business beyond this product suite, it's too new to have had any impact in the first quarter and won't have much in the second. We rolled it out in Arizona and Colorado beginning on March '26. But the early reaction to it with a very limited sample of -- it's the first really new product offering we've had four small businesses for quite some time, and it's been really well received. And so I'm excited about the prospects for it. But we'll be rolling it out across the rest of the organization later in May. And it will be kind of in the third and fourth quarter before we start to understand what the impact might be.

不過 business beyond 這套產品組合太新了，第一季不可能有任何影響，第二季也不會有太多。我們在 3 月 26 日於亞利桑那州與科羅拉多州開始推出。但從非常有限的樣本來看，早期反應很好——這是我們很長一段時間以來，首次針對小型企業推出真正的新產品，而且市場接受度非常高。因此我對它的前景感到興奮。我們會在 5 月稍晚把它推廣到組織的其他地區。大概要到第三、第四季，我們才會開始了解它可能帶來的影響。

On the gold account, the first quarter, I mean we -- again, we started rolling this out in the second half of last year and really the full impact started to come kind of in the fourth quarter. We've -- in terms of new account activity, we opened about 4,000 new accounts in the first quarter. And I'm hopeful that we'll see that kind of ramp up to kind of 20,000 new accounts for the year. What we're seeing is over time, the total relationship balances are somewhere around $100,000. And it's not immediate, but the extent we're seeing accounts build up to that.

至於 gold 帳戶，第一季——我的意思是，我們在去年下半年開始推行，而真正的完整效果大概在第四季開始顯現。就新開戶活動而言，我們在第一季大約開了 4,000 個新帳戶。我希望今年能把這個速度拉升到全年約 20,000 個新帳戶。我們看到隨著時間推移，整體往來關係餘額大約在 10 萬美元左右。這不是立刻發生，但我們確實看到帳戶逐步累積到那個水準。

And so anyway, we think that this is a really great opportunity for us, and we have a lot of energy, and we'll be devoting a lot of marketing to it. So it's still early innings, but I'm hopeful that, that will really contribute to not only a well-priced deposit base, but one that's granular and really sturdy with the kinds of customers that we can do a lot of business with.

總之，我們認為這對我們是非常好的機會，我們也充滿動能，並會投入大量行銷資源。所以現在還在早期階段，但我希望它能真正貢獻的不只是具備良好定價的存款基礎，還包括更分散、非常穩健的存款結構，以及我們能與之進行大量業務往來的客群。

Great. Thanks for the color. And just on capital markets fees, the $28 million, slightly higher year over year, but down $9 million versus a strong 4Q. Just anything to call out during the quarter and Ryan, I think you called out the strong pipelines in capital markets going into 2Q. So if you could just unpack the quarter and trends you're seeing right now?

很好。謝謝你提供的補充說明。另外就資本市場費用而言，2,800萬美元，年增略高，但較強勁的第四季少了900萬美元。本季有沒有什麼特別值得一提的？Ryan，我想你也提到資本市場在進入第二季時的案源管線很強。所以你能否再拆解一下本季表現，以及你們目前看到的趨勢？

Yeah. This is Scott. I'd be happy to do that. We had a -- it was a tough quarter to compare against last year because of a really large M&A transaction fee that we reported on. So we were delighted with the quarter as it ended, and really, all of the businesses continue to show good opportunity.

好的。我是Scott。我很樂意說明。本季與去年相比較難，因為去年我們認列了一筆非常大的併購（M&A）交易費用。因此我們對本季結束時的表現感到很滿意，而且實際上，各項業務仍持續展現良好的機會。

In the first quarter, we saw real strength with our syndications and our interest rate hedging businesses and also with a new commodity hedging, oil and gas hedging practice that we started in the third, fourth quarter of last year. We think it has the potential to generate, I don't know, $7 million to $10 million a year in revenue, and we're just getting started there. But basically, that business is positioned against about 80 of our energy reserve-based lending clients.

在第一季，我們在聯貸/承銷分銷（syndications）與利率避險業務上看到明顯強勁的表現；另外還有一項新的商品避險——油氣避險業務，我們是在去年第三、第四季開始建立的。我們認為它有潛力每年帶來大約700萬到1,000萬美元的營收，而我們才剛起步。基本上，這項業務是針對我們約80家能源「儲量基礎融資」（reserve-based lending）客戶所布局的。

We've already had about 30 of those, 30, 35 transact with us on this interest rates, oil and gas hedging activity. And so I think between syndications interest rate hedging, our foreign exchange business, commodity hedging.

目前大約已有其中30家、30到35家客戶與我們進行了這些利率、油氣避險相關交易。所以我認為在聯貸/承銷分銷、利率避險、我們的外匯業務、商品避險之間——

Our real estate capital markets business, it was a soft quarter for them. But the second quarter that can kind of ebb and flow, they're still very confident they're going to have a real solid second, third and fourth quarter. In our M&A business, again, which is sporadic, we've invested quite a bit in new colleagues there and deal flow looks good. So it's been a high-growth business for us. We've made a lot of investments there, and we don't anticipate it will disappoint this year.

我們的不動產資本市場業務本季偏弱。不過第二季可能會有起伏波動，他們仍非常有信心第二、第三與第四季會相當穩健。至於我們的併購（M&A）業務，同樣具有零星性，我們在那裡新增同仁投入了不少資源，交易案源看起來不錯。因此這一直是我們的高成長業務。我們在那裡做了很多投資，也不預期今年會讓人失望。

Great. Thanks for taking the questions.

很好。謝謝回答我的問題。

David Chiaverini, Jefferies LLC.

David Chiaverini，Jefferies LLC。

Hi. Thanks for taking the questions. Wanted to go back to -- you alluded to the Basel III end game benefit of a -- it sounded like a modest net benefit. But are you able to quantify what that benefit could be for Zions?

嗨。謝謝讓我提問。我想回到——你們提到巴塞爾協定III終局（Basel III end game）的效益——聽起來是小幅的淨利多。但你們能量化一下，這個效益對Zions可能會是多少嗎？

Thanks for the question, David. I'm happy to provide some color there. Listen, we're still working all the way through the process, but our scoping on the standardized approach would suggest some RWA relief as others have reported. Right now, we would size that between 9% to 10% of RWA release, which we contribute all being equal, about 93 basis points to common equity Tier 1.

謝謝你的問題，David。我很樂意補充一些說明。我們仍在完整推演整個流程，但就標準法（standardized approach）的範疇評估來看，會有一些風險加權資產（RWA）的釋放，正如其他同業所提到的。目前我們估計RWA可釋放約9%到10%，在其他條件不變下，約可為普通股權益第一類資本比率（CET1）貢獻約93個基點。

We are still studying the ERBA just to understand the puts and takes there with the risk sensitivity compared to the operational risk RWA. So probably more to be out there in future quarters. As you know, we've been sort of talking capital, both not only and including AOCI and by formalizing AOCI into the standard moving forward, albeit with a pretty lengthy phase-in. Of course, that cuts the other way, but we've already been operating as though AOCI is something that we're cognizant of in setting our capital glide path. So hopefully, that helps.

我們仍在研究ERBA，以了解其風險敏感度相較於作業風險RWA的利弊取捨。所以未來幾季可能還會有更多資訊可分享。如你所知，我們一直在談資本議題，不僅包括AOCI；而且未來將AOCI正式納入標準中，雖然有相當長的逐步導入期。當然，那會往相反方向影響，但我們在設定資本目標路徑（capital glide path）時，早已把AOCI視為需要留意的因素。希望這些說明有幫助。

Yes, very helpful. And then you alluded to pricing pressure on the CRE side, could you talk about the C&I pricing environment?

是的，非常有幫助。另外你提到商用不動產（CRE）那邊有定價壓力，你能談談工商貸款（C&I）的定價環境嗎？

Sure. This is Derek again. Yeah. I mean, we're -- while the activity levels are healthy and it certainly is a competitive market out there today. So we're seeing some price competition. But it's not significant, but it's something that we're definitely very aware of.

當然。我是Derek，再補充一下。是的。我的意思是——目前業務活動量維持健康，而且今天市場確實競爭激烈。所以我們看到一些價格競爭。但幅度不大，不過我們確實非常留意這件事。

Thank you.

謝謝。

David Smith, Truist Securities.

David Smith，Truist Securities。

Hey, good afternoon. Can you please talk a little bit about where you're spending the most time managing credit today? Obviously, it was a really strong quarter with just 3 basis points of net charge-offs, and [the SIs], nonaccruals, pretty much all the forward indicators all trending down versus the fourth quarter. But to the extent that you're seeing problem or areas of concern in the portfolio, where those might be and what trends specifically for those sub-portfolios?

嗨，午安。你能否談談目前你們在信用管理上花最多時間的地方？顯然本季非常強勁，淨沖銷僅3個基點，而且[the SIs]、不計息（nonaccrual）等，幾乎所有前瞻指標相較第四季都在下滑。但若你們在投資組合中看到問題或關注領域，會是哪些部分？這些子投資組合的具體趨勢又是什麼？

Yeah. Thanks for the question. Overall, we're continuing to see improvement in commercial real estate as -- and as you can see from the number of criticized and classified and nonaccruals continue to decrease there. If anything, we're focused on the commercial and industrial space, it's actually year over year, our curated classifieds have improved there.

是的。謝謝你的問題。整體而言，我們持續看到商用不動產（commercial real estate）改善——如你所見，受關注（criticized）、分類（classified）以及不計息（nonaccrual）項目都持續下降。如果要說我們更聚焦的地方，會是在工商（commercial and industrial）領域；其實年比年來看，我們精選的分類資產（curated classifieds）在那裡是改善的。

I saw a slight increase this quarter. But that's the area where we're our attention where we're paying the most attention. We are not seeing a lot of impact from tariffs or from the events in the Middle East at this point, but watching, really just focused on some just increases to expenses in certain areas such as restaurants and consumer-focused businesses that seems to be what we're watching the most these days.

本季我看到有小幅上升。但那是我們投入最多注意力的領域。目前我們尚未看到關稅或中東事件帶來太多影響，但我們會持續觀察；真正比較聚焦的是某些領域費用上升，例如餐廳與面向消費者的企業，這似乎是我們最近最關注的。

Do you have a sense of how long oil prices might have to be elevated before that plays through more broadly with some of your industrial client base?

你是否能判斷油價需要維持在高檔多久，才會更廣泛地影響到你們部分工業客戶基礎？

Yeah. It's a great question. The forward curve on oil right now is going out a year at a little higher level, but it starts to drop actually pretty fast. And by next year, it's back to a lower level. So we'll just have to watch and see where the curve goes.

是的。這是個很好的問題。目前油價的遠期曲線往後看一年是在稍高的水準，但之後其實開始下滑得很快。到明年就回到較低水準。所以我們只能持續觀察曲線如何變化。

All right. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Ken Usdin, Autonomous Research.

Ken Usdin，Autonomous Research。

Hey, thanks a lot. Hey, Ryan, can I just ask and follow up on the NII comments? When you mentioned the 7% to 8% growth with no rate cuts, were you referring to the full year 2026 commentary? Or were you referring to the 1Q '27 over 1Q '26?

嗨，謝謝。Ryan，我想追問一下淨利息收入（NII）的評論。你提到在不降息的情境下成長7%到8%，你指的是2026全年的展望嗎？還是指2027年第一季相較2026年第一季？

Yeah. For our NII guide, that's order view as how we guide that. So that's certainly at the upper end of moderately increasing and we think the ability to overachieve if rates hang in for us.

是的。就我們的NII指引而言，那是我們提供指引的方式，也就是以年度視角來看。所以那確實是在「溫和成長」區間的上緣；而且我們認為，如果利率對我們而言維持在較高水準，我們有能力超出預期。

Okay. Got it. And then I just wanted to make sure because it was a little bit back and forth between talking about like the full year versus the standard guide. So it's on the standard guide. Okay.

好的。了解。然後我只是想確認一下，因為剛才在談「全年」和「標準指引」之間有點來回切換。所以是以標準指引為準。好的。

Yes, understood.

是的，明白。

Yeah. And then as you go forward, the earning asset base has been pretty steady for the last couple of quarters. And as you kind of have reworked the mix of the balance sheet from here, do we start to see more AEA growth? Or is the benefit that you get from NII going to come more from the margin expansion from here? Thanks, Ryan.

對。然後往前看，過去幾個季度的生息資產基礎一直相當穩定。當你們從這裡開始重新調整資產負債表的組合後，我們會開始看到更多平均生息資產（AEA）的成長嗎？還是說，你們從淨利息收入（NII）得到的好處，會更多來自於從這裡開始的利差擴張？謝謝，Ryan。

It's a very fair question, Ken, because you're right. I mean, if you look year over year, average earning assets are kind of hanging in around the same levels. And so the loan growth that we're seeing has sort of been offset by the average investment securities and money market funds.

這是個很合理的問題，Ken，因為你說得沒錯。我的意思是，如果你看年對年，平均生息資產大致維持在差不多的水準。因此，我們看到的放款成長，某種程度上被平均投資證券與貨幣市場基金所抵銷。

Listen, one of the things that we're probably getting closer to, I talked about in my prepared remarks, the reinvestment that's occurring for investment securities, where we've still been allowing a decent amount of that to flow over to paying for loans or paying down wholesale funding. We're getting close to the point in time when we would think about reinvesting fully, just to make sure we keep the same comfortable headroom on our liquidity measures and the like.

聽著，其中一件我們可能正逐漸接近的事，我在事先準備的發言裡也提到：投資證券的再投資正在發生，而我們仍讓其中相當一部分資金流向用來支持放款，或償還批發融資。我們快要到一個時間點，會開始考慮全面再投資，以確保我們在流動性指標等方面仍保有同樣舒適的緩衝空間。

But if you see in our guide, we certainly expect for loans to build from here. And you all, I think, are very attuned to where we expect to see that. One of the things that maybe it could be potentially a little bit lost in the message this quarter is we had a really nice loan fee result. You'll see that in -- and that was on the back of some of the things that we said we were going to do.

但如果你看我們的指引，我們確實預期放款會從這裡開始增加。而我想各位也很清楚我們預期成長會出現在哪些領域。另外，這一季訊息裡可能有一點容易被忽略的是：我們的放款手續費表現非常不錯。你會在——而那是基於我們先前說過要做的一些事情所帶來的成果。

Part of our strategy was saying, hey, going forward, we want to do more held for sale activity around residential mortgage loans. And that showed up in this quarter. So we had a pool in excess of $500 million that we sold out both that would have otherwise been part of our story for loan growth.

我們策略的一部分是說，嘿，往前看，我們希望在住宅房貸上做更多「持有供出售」（held for sale）的業務。而這一季就反映出來了。所以我們賣出了一個超過5億美元的資產池，否則那本來會成為我們放款成長故事的一部分。

Another thing that we haven't yet featured on this call but would be in the earnings release, is we did roll out an accounting change this quarter moving forward on the netting of derivative assets and derivative liabilities and cash collateral things associated with that. And that would also have sort of a knock-on effect on some netting down of loan balances to the tune of about $100 million difference. So I acknowledge that our loan growth looks modest.

另外一件我們在這通電話上還沒特別提到、但會在財報新聞稿裡的，是我們本季推出了一項會計變更：針對衍生性金融資產與衍生性金融負債，以及相關現金擔保品的抵銷（netting）方式。這也會對放款餘額的淨額呈現產生連帶影響，約有1億美元的差異。所以我承認，我們的放款成長看起來偏溫和。

But there were some other pieces in there that were they in our base results would have looked like a stronger loan growth story. So moving forward, it's going to be both, along with its answer. It's definitely going to be a margin expansion and growth in average earning assets.

但其中還有一些其他因素，如果看我們的基礎結果，本來會呈現出更強的放款成長故事。所以往前看，答案會是兩者兼具。一定會同時來自利差擴張，以及平均生息資產的成長。

I'd just add that the consumer book, the one to four family residential jumbo arms, I'd expect that that will remain flat to kind of drifting down over time. We're just trying to remove some of the risk in a world where higher rates may be the norm and so some of the can next derisk there. So really, trying to focus more on a held for sale turning that activity into more fee-based activity. So that will be a little bit of a drag, but we think that we'll see moderate loan growth despite that.

我再補充一下，消費金融那一塊，也就是一到四戶住宅的巨額（jumbo）浮動利率房貸（ARM），我預期會維持持平，或隨時間略為下滑。我們只是想在一個較高利率可能成為常態的環境中，移除一些風險，因此在那裡做一些去風險（derisk）。所以我們真正想更聚焦的是「持有供出售」，把那類活動轉成更多以手續費為主的業務。因此那會帶來一點拖累，但即便如此，我們仍認為放款會有溫和成長。

Okay. Thanks for the color.

好的。謝謝補充說明。

Peter Winter, D.A. Davidson.

Peter Winter，D.A. Davidson。

Thanks. Good afternoon. I was wondering, with the outlook of fee income coming in at the upper end of your range and you continue to make these investments, which are clearly working, would you expect expenses to also come in at the upper end of that range of moderately increasing?

謝謝。午安。我想請教，既然手續費收入的展望落在你們區間的上緣，而且你們持續進行這些投資、顯然也正在發揮效果，你們是否預期費用也會落在「溫和增加」這個區間的上緣？

And I'm sure it was -- there are others who also would love to say here. But in my spoken remarks, I purposely kind of guided towards the upper end of the range and NII and fee income. I'm glad you picked up on that. I didn't do that for expense, so we'll see. But for where I sit here today, I think it's a reasonable guide just as it is. I wouldn't guide on the operator or the lower end. I just leave the degrees of freedom within that.

我確定——也有其他人也很想在這裡發言。不過在我口頭發言中，我是刻意把淨利息收入（NII）和手續費收入的指引偏向區間上緣。很高興你注意到了。但我沒有對費用這麼做，所以我們再看看。不過就我今天此刻的看法，我認為目前這樣的指引本身是合理的。我不會去引導大家看上緣或下緣。我會保留那個區間內的彈性。

Got it.

了解。

I would just add that most of the broad-based growth we're seeing in fees now is -- I mean, capital markets, we clearly have invested a lot. The others we're not having to -- the incremental investment is not that significant. I think we're seeing a lot of our sales practices flowing through. I think we're seeing our call programs are stronger. And this is the best broad-based growth we've seen in a long time.

我再補充一下，我們現在看到手續費的廣泛成長——我的意思是，資本市場這塊我們確實投入很多。其他領域不需要——額外的增量投資並不顯著。我認為我們看到很多銷售作法的成果正在反映出來。我認為我們的外撥/致電計畫更強了。而這是我們很長一段時間以來看到最廣泛的成長。

I just thought with the growth in the fee income also maybe higher incentive comp as well. That's why I was thinking about it.

我只是想，手續費收入成長也可能意味著較高的獎勵性薪酬。所以我才會想到這點。

That's true.

沒錯。

That's true. And you can see that a little bit in the --

沒錯。而你可以在-- 這裡稍微看到一點。

But it's in the context of a $2.1 billion expense number. So it's not going to move it materially.

但那是在21億美元費用規模的背景下。所以不會對總額造成實質性的變動。

Okay. And then just if I can ask a subquestion but with these growth initiatives under way, is there anything tangible that you can point to that the investments that you made in the future core to modernize their core systems. Has that been additive to your growth or helping attract more customers, just given -- we're seeing some nice organic growth from you guys. I'm just wondering if the future care is playing into that?

好的。然後如果我可以再問一個延伸問題：在這些成長計畫推進之際，有沒有任何具體的例子可以指出，你們為了未來、為了現代化核心系統所做的投資，是否對成長有加分或有助於吸引更多客戶？畢竟——我們看到你們有不錯的內生成長。我只是想知道，future core 是否也有在其中發揮作用？我只是想知道 future care 是否也有在其中發揮作用？

Yes, although it's -- I think it's hard to quantify exactly, but it's helping us just get things done faster. I mean customers don't choose a bank because of your core systems, especially the lending side. They're looking for execution and price and relationship, et cetera. But it's giving us -- I mean, I go back in time. We did an exceptional job during old PPP thing in that ancient history now, we couldn't have done it without this new core.

是的，雖然——我覺得很難精確量化，但它確實幫助我們把事情做得更快。我的意思是，客戶不會因為你的核心系統而選擇一家銀行，尤其是在放款端。他們看的是執行力、價格、關係等等。但它讓我們——我的意思是，我回想以前。在那個現在已成「遠古歷史」的 PPP 時期，我們做得非常出色；如果沒有這套新的核心系統，我們不可能做到。

We are quickly doing the real land office business in PPP with a great process. So that's just an example of how it's allowing us to get things done faster.

我們在 PPP 上很快就把真正的「土地辦公室」（land office）業務做起來，而且流程很棒。所以這只是其中一個例子，說明它如何讓我們能更快把事情完成。

Well, the other couple of the points I would add is the real-time data and the fact that all of our loans and deposits are on one data system, again, that doesn't send tingles through clients' minds. But in a data-driven world, it's absolutely critical that it'd be accurate.

嗯，我還想補充另外幾點：即時數據，以及我們所有貸款與存款都在同一套數據系統上；再次強調，這些並不會讓客戶心裡起雞皮疙瘩。但在一個以數據驅動的世界裡，數據的準確性絕對至關重要。

And it also -- we said on our last call that we were close to closing a transaction with TCS to bring their Quartz -- they have a product called Quartz. That is a tokenized deposit, stablecoin application. And because we're on their platform, the ability to start innovating with tokenized deposits or stablecoin is infinitely cheaper than anybody else trying to do this.

另外——我們在上次電話會議提到，我們已接近與 TCS 完成一筆交易，把他們的 Quartz——他們有一個叫 Quartz 的產品——引入。那是一個代幣化存款、穩定幣的應用。而因為我們在他們的平台上，開始用代幣化存款或穩定幣進行創新的成本，會比其他任何想做這件事的人便宜得多。

And so we think it's going to be an interesting way to compete way beyond our size in that arena should we choose to. We've not announced that we are, and we've got a platform that we would not have had if it not been our core conversion.

因此，我們認為，如果我們選擇投入那個領域，這會是一種有趣的方式，讓我們在那個競技場中以遠超自身規模的方式競爭。我們尚未宣布我們會這麼做；而且若不是因為我們的核心系統轉換，我們也不會擁有這樣的平台。

That's great. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, guys.

太好了。謝謝你，Scott。謝謝各位。

Janet Lee, TD Cowen.

TD Cowen 的 Janet Lee。

Good afternoon. Just to go back on your 7% to 8% NII growth, assuming no rate cuts, is it fair to say that that assumption is baking in moderately increasing loan growth, so call it, mid-single digit or so but that would also imply a pretty meaningful step up in net interest margin expansion throughout the course of 1Q '26 to 1Q '27 in order to get to the 7% to 8%?

下午好。回到你們 7% 到 8% 的淨利息收入（NII）成長（假設不降息），這樣的假設是否可以理解為：其中已納入貸款成長溫和上升，例如中個位數左右；但同時也意味著，為了達到 7% 到 8%，在 2026 年第一季到 2027 年第一季期間，淨利差（NIM）需要相當明顯地擴張？

Yeah. Listen, I think you're right about that. In terms of allowing for loan growth to be embedded in that figure and margin expansion, we don't guide to that hasn't been our practice to guide on margin. But we see ample opportunity to expand the margin throughout the course at this point in time to -- at that point in time in a years, hence. So both of those are encompassed within our guide -- and I can rehearse all those different contributing factors, if you like. But I gave you the short form answer.

是的。聽著，我想你說得對。就貸款成長與利差擴張是否已包含在那個數字裡而言，我們不會對利差提供指引——這一直不是我們的做法。但我們認為，在接下來這段期間——也就是一年後的那個時間點——利差有充足的擴張空間。所以這兩者都包含在我們的指引之中——如果你願意，我也可以把所有不同的貢獻因素再複述一遍。但我先給你簡短版的回答。

I would take that.

我接受這個回答。

So yeah, listen. I think there's different things that are playing through and you've heard us probably talk a little bit about this before. We do have the latent defect of those six asset repricing that has yet played through. There's still some sizable books that have longer repricing cutoff patterns. So if you think about things like muni, if you think about owner occupied, if you think about some one to four family ready. So all that, together with things like less those headwinds for the -- this quarter, we had about a $10 million headwind through the fourth quarter this year, it goes down to about $5 million.

所以，是的，聽著。我認為有不同的因素正在發酵，你可能也聽我們之前稍微談過。我們確實還有那種「六個月資產重定價」的潛在缺口尚未完全反映。仍有一些規模不小的資產組合，其重定價的截止/節奏較長。所以你想想像市政債（muni）、自用不動產（owner occupied），以及一些一到四戶住宅（one to four family）相關的項目。此外，再加上例如這些逆風因素減弱——本季我們大約有 1,000 萬美元的逆風，延續到今年第四季，之後會降到大約 500 萬美元。

We've got some disclosures in our 10-K that talked about that. All those things blend to an improvement in earning asset yields, kind of one year hands along the way. We've sort of sized that about 2 to 3 basis points improvement in rig asset yields. We are doing some roll-off of our investment securities portfolio to other gainful places like loan growth at paying down wholesale sources of funding. We size that as a 1-basis point kind of credit earning assets.

我們在 10-K 裡也有一些揭露談到這點。這些因素綜合起來，會在未來一年左右逐步推升生息資產收益率的改善。我們大致估計，生息資產收益率可改善約 2 到 3 個基點。我們也在讓投資證券投組部分到期/縮減，把資金轉到更有利的用途，例如支持貸款成長，或償還批發性資金來源。我們估計這大概能帶來約 1 個基點的生息資產改善。

So it's that together with some -- a little bit of a taper of things yet to play through and repricing down of term deposits are all things that contribute to a better NIM story moving forward.

因此，這些因素再加上一些——尚未完全反映的項目逐步消退，以及定期存款利率下調的重定價——都會促成未來更好的淨利差（NIM）走勢。

Got it. That's very helpful. And your 150 basis points POL for 2026, you seem very comfortable achieving it. no rate cut scenario. I would -- is it fair to assume it's still the case if we were to get a gain if we do end up getting a rate cut? Or does it get more challenging?

了解。這非常有幫助。另外，你們 2026 年 150 個基點的 POL，你們看起來很有把握在不降息的情境下達成。我想問——如果最後真的降息，是否仍然成立、甚至可能有上行？還是會變得更具挑戰？

So we were prepared with something in August of that last quarter where we were seeing two rate cuts. So I wouldn't necessarily back away from that. I would just say, as with all things, it will all depend on our success in driving through those lower-cost bonds and our deposit growth through the course of the year. That's our biggest variable and not knowing day-to-day, week-to-week, what the board markets are going to tell us. I just feel like we're at least as good or a better place than we were last quarter.

所以我們在去年第三季的 8 月其實就已經為「降息兩次」的情境做過準備。因此我不一定會因此退縮。我只想說，跟所有事情一樣，這將取決於我們在一年之中推動更低成本資金（或債務）以及存款成長的成效。那是我們最大的變數，而且我們也無法逐日、逐週預知批發市場會告訴我們什麼。我只是覺得，我們至少處在不比上季差、甚至更好的位置。

Anthony Elian, JPMorgan.

JPMorgan 的 Anthony Elian。

On M&A, last month, you announced the acquisition of the agency lending business from basis. right? Last year, you acquired four branches in the Coachella Valley. Harris, are these the types of acquisitions we should expect going forward? Or would you cast a wider net at some point, inclusive of bank acquisitions for what you'd look at?

關於併購（M&A），上個月你們宣布收購 basis 的代理放款業務，對吧？去年你們在 Coachella Valley 收購了四家分行。Harris，未來我們應該預期你們會持續做這類型的收購嗎？還是你們某個時點會把範圍撒得更大一些，包括考慮銀行併購在內？

Well, the first thing I'd say is it's not so much that we're casting a net. We're waiting for fish to momentum into the fund that we are comfortable with. We're not out looking to try to -- it's not an objective to do M&A to grow. I've been pretty consistent about that. But I -- but as we see opportunities, we ask ourselves the question, is it a good fit strategically?

嗯，我首先要說的是，我們與其說是在撒網，不如說是在等魚自己游到我們覺得舒服的範圍內。我們並沒有到處去找、試圖——我們做併購並不是為了成長而成長的目標。我在這點上一直很一致。但——當我們看到機會時，我們會問自己：從策略上看，這是不是一個好的契合？

Is it something that strengthens the franchise and all our price at the end of the day to -- and so we'd be opportunistic about it. I think both of these kind of hit that. These agency relationships, the Fannie, Freddie business, we've been talking about here. That is something we have been looking to do -- we live in a part of the country where you have a combination of a reasonably young population, a high-cost housing affordability. All of that creates demand for more multifamily over time.

它是否能強化我們的特許經營（franchise），以及最終在價格上是否合理——因此我們會以機會主義的方式來看待。我認為這兩筆交易都符合這點。這些代理關係、房利美（Fannie）與房地美（Freddie）業務，我們在這裡一直有談到。這是我們一直想做的——我們所在的區域同時具備相對年輕的人口結構，以及高房價、可負擔性偏低的住房環境。這些因素都會隨時間推移帶來更多多戶住宅（multifamily）的需求。

It's about -- yes, we're about 80% of the population of the nation is taking place. through the Mountain West, the Southwest, et cetera. And so being able to be a one-stop shop for developers of multifamily product fits really nicely into the capital market strategy we have. And fits nicely with the real estate talent we have in-house to originate that kind of product. So I would expect that anything we do would have kind of a story to it in terms of how it fits with the strategy of becoming a stronger presence in the Western United States.

這關乎——是的，全國大約 80% 的人口成長發生在山區西部（Mountain West）、西南部（Southwest）等地。因此，能夠為多戶住宅產品的開發商提供一站式服務，與我們的資本市場策略非常契合。也與我們內部擁有的不動產人才相契合，能夠承作（originate）這類產品。所以我預期，我們做的任何事情都會有一個「故事」，說明它如何契合我們在美國西部建立更強存在感的策略。

Okay. And then my follow-up on deregulation. So Harris, you addressed this in your annual letter. We had the capital proposals a few weeks ago. I know we have the comment period now, but I'd like to get your thoughts on if you think those proposals are largely sufficient or what more you'd like to see from those proposals?

好的。接著我想追問去監管（deregulation）。Harris，你在年度信中談到過這點。幾週前我們也看到了資本提案。我知道現在還在徵求意見期，但我想聽聽你的看法：你認為那些提案大致上已經足夠了嗎？或者你還希望在那些提案中看到哪些更多內容？

I think we're pretty pleased with what I -- one of the things -- what I said in the letter, the pendulum -- what happens is you get a crisis and a reaction. And that's the history of bank regulation. And the statutes that are passed to turn that into law. And the what happened in the wake of the passage of Dodd-Frank was there were a lot of things that I think that with the benefit now of looking back over the last decade, regulator sensible people looking at this would say, okay, some of that was actually really useful and needed necessary. And some of it is overkill.

我想我們對我——其中一件事——我在信中所說的內容相當滿意；鐘擺效應——通常發生的是，你會遇到一場危機，然後出現一波反應。而這就是銀行監管的歷史。以及為了把這些轉化為法律而通過的法規。而在《多德—弗蘭克法案》通過之後所發生的事情是，有很多措施，我認為以現在回頭看過去十年的角度，理性且務實的監管人士會說，好，其中有些其實非常有用、也確實有必要。但其中也有一些是矯枉過正。

And from my perspective, I think the current cast in place and the agencies is doing a really nice job of trying to say let's focus on the basics because the risk is you get so in full in the thick of in things that you missed the main event. And I think that's one of the things that happened with the bank failures three years ago, things that are kind of hiding in plain sight. And it wasn't about some of the -- I mean, everybody -- the industry is actually pretty good at self-regulating.

從我的角度來看，我認為目前在位的團隊與各監管機構做得非常好，試著說讓我們聚焦在基本面，因為風險在於你太深陷於各種細節之中，反而錯過了主要事件。我認為這也是三年前銀行倒閉事件中發生的情況之一，有些問題其實就藏在顯而易見之處。而且這並不是關於某些——我的意思是，大家——這個產業其實相當擅長自我監管。

I mean after you've been through the great financial crisis, you don't need to be told a lot about how you adjust your portfolio to make sure that doesn't happen again. And that's kind of where the system tends to pile on. And so a lot of things were done in terms of ability to repay valid mortgages and everything that it's part of the housing affordability problem we have today. It's just more expensive to get a mortgage, for example. I think they're trying to be sensible about how do we get back to kind of the center point. And so I'm actually quite pleased with what we're seeing.

我的意思是，在你經歷過全球金融危機之後，其實不需要別人再三告訴你該如何調整投資組合，以確保不會再發生同樣的事。而這也正是這個體系往往會層層加碼的地方。因此，在「有能力償還」合格房貸等各方面做了很多事情，而這些也成了我們今天住房可負擔性問題的一部分。例如，取得房貸的成本就是更高了。我認為他們正試著以更務實的方式思考：我們要如何回到某種中間點。所以我其實對我們所看到的情況相當滿意。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jon Arfstrom, RBC Capital Markets.

Jon Arfstrom，RBC 資本市場。

Hey, thanks. I wanted to ask you about the agency businesses, but I think you cleared those up, Harris, but that's just a P&L. It's not really use of balance sheet on those businesses. Is that correct?

嗨，謝謝。我原本想問你們的代理業務（agency businesses），但我想你已經把那些釐清了，Harris，不過那只是損益表（P&L）。那些業務其實不太需要動用資產負債表，對嗎？是這樣嗎？

Yeah, yeah. That it shouldn't -- I mean we use the balance sheet for the origination of the deal, the construction, the stabilization, but without fail, our customers who are developing this kind of product, they need a long-term takeout. And so it just allows us to be in the stream.

對，對。也就是說——我的意思是，我們會在交易承作、施工、以及穩定期使用資產負債表，但無一例外地，我們開發這類產品的客戶都需要一個長期的接手/退出（takeout）安排。所以這只是讓我們能夠參與在這個流程之中。

One way of maybe stitching together, Harris is a very good response on the regulatory environment and if there was anything on the wish list, going back to Basel III in game, getting some more risk sensitivity on the commercial loan side of the business would be helpful.

或許把這些串起來說，Harris 對監管環境的回應非常好；如果說有什麼願望清單，回到巴塞爾協議 III 終局（Basel III endgame），在商業放款這一端能有更高的風險敏感度會很有幫助。

It looks like they may have MSRs and scope of things to at least nominally reconsider getting away from the for dollar exclusion above certain levels and maybe rethinking of the risk weighting -- for this type of business, this agency multifamily business, there will be some MSR generation that would come from it. So we'll have to see where that falls out.

看起來他們可能會在 MSR（房貸服務權）以及一些範疇上，至少名義上重新考慮，擺脫在超過某些水準後「逐美元排除」（for dollar exclusion）的做法，並且可能重新思考風險權重——對於這類業務、也就是這個代理多戶住宅（agency multifamily）業務而言，會產生一些 MSR。所以我們得看看最後會如何落地。

Yes. I know there are rare licenses and very valuable, so that will be good. Scott, maybe just to go back on lending, energy and lending appetite. Just curious how you're approaching the business with so much volatility. And then can you touch a little bit on the Texas or Amegy C&I growth and what's driving that?

是的。我知道那些牌照很稀有、也非常有價值，所以那會是好事。Scott，也許回到放款、能源以及放款意願這塊。只是好奇在波動這麼大的情況下，你們是怎麼看待這項業務的。另外你能不能談一下德州或 Amegy 的 C&I（商業與工業）成長，以及背後的驅動因素？

Sure, John. Let me -- on the AMD side, they had -- I'll take the second one first. They had really strong loan growth last year, really broad-based C&I growth and their CRE is holding in there. Energy really did not grow much last year for them. They are seeing better growth in smaller businesses.

當然，John。我先——在 AMD 這邊，他們——我先回答第二個問題。他們去年放款成長非常強勁，C&I 成長相當廣泛，他們的 CRE（商用不動產）也維持得不錯。能源對他們而言去年其實沒有成長太多。他們在較小型企業方面看到更好的成長。

Principally, they've played more in the middle market, the kind of middle of the middle market and the upper end of it. But just good progress there. Their call programs are great. The bank and the Metroplex. They're activities in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex and in San Antonio are doing well.

主要是，他們更多是在中型市場（middle market）發力，也就是中型市場的中段以及較高端那一段。但那邊的進展很好。他們的外呼/拜訪（call）計畫很棒。該銀行在都會圈。他們在達拉斯—沃斯堡都會圈以及聖安東尼奧的活動表現都很好。

And so they just have a lot of momentum that they brought into this year, and I know they feel very optimistic about leading the way in terms of loan growth for the company this year, too.

所以他們把很多動能帶進了今年，而且我知道他們對於今年也能在公司整體放款成長方面領先感到非常樂觀。

On the energy side, holy cow, we've been sitting at $2 billion in outstanding for a long time. And we would love to see that grow the credit metrics, the pricing metrics have never been better as probably 40% of the banks that play in the reserve-based lending, what I would call, middle market of energy lending, about 40% of the banks that used to have exited. And a lot of this business is originated by private equity firms that we know extremely well and have decades of experience with. And so -- and the way we do it, we have about $75 million reserve-based loans.

在能源方面，天啊，我們在未償餘額 20 億美元這個水準已經維持很久了。我們很希望看到它成長；信用指標、定價指標從來沒有像現在這麼好，因為大概有 40% 參與儲量基礎融資（reserve-based lending）、我稱之為能源放款中型市場的銀行，約有 40% 以前做這塊的銀行已經退出了。而且這裡面很多業務是由我們非常熟悉、且合作經驗長達數十年的私募股權公司所發起的。所以——而我們的做法是，我們大約有 7,500 萬美元的儲量基礎貸款。

So these are highly secured, they modulate based on pricing. And the -- that has done very well through many cycles. -- what didn't do well was financing oilfield service companies. We have long since reduced our engagement with those companies dramatically. It's about 12% of the book now.

所以這些是高度擔保的，會隨著價格變動而調整。而且——這在多個景氣循環中表現都非常好。——表現不佳的是為油田服務公司提供融資。我們早就大幅降低與那些公司的往來。現在大約只占這個組合的 12%。

It was as high as 35%, 40% at one time. So that was decades it was 15 to 18 years ago. So anyway, I think we've got the portfolio structured right. The midstream side of the portfolio is very good. And we have a great energy lending team.

曾經一度高達 35%、40%。那是很多年前，大概是 15 到 18 年前。總之，我認為我們的投資組合結構是對的。中游（midstream）那一塊的組合非常好。而且我們有一支很強的能源放款團隊。

They're widely recognized across the industry as being pros. And adding this oil and gas commodity hedging activity, it just has been terrific, and we'll see a lot of strength from that because our clients want to do business with us. So anyway, I'm optimistic about it. And if that business grew 10% a year for three or four years, we'd be really happy with it. We had outstandings of $3 billion some years ago. So it's the level that we're not afraid to the level. We just need to see the activity.

他們在整個產業中被廣泛認可為專家。再加上這項石油與天然氣商品避險（hedging）活動，效果非常好；我們會從中看到很大的強勁動能，因為客戶想跟我們做生意。所以總之，我對此很樂觀。如果那項業務能連續三、四年每年成長 10%，我們會非常滿意。我們在某些年份的未償餘額曾達到 30 億美元。所以這個水準我們並不害怕。我們只是需要看到活動量起來。

Chris McGratty, KBW.

Chris McGratty，KBW。

Great. Thanks. Harris, on AI, could you speak to perhaps the near-term opportunity for the company, but maybe over time, any risks that you see out there on the revenue side?

很好。謝謝。Harris，關於 AI，你能談談公司在短期內可能的機會，以及隨著時間推移，你在營收端看到的任何風險嗎？

Sure. I mean, we have a variety of things going on with where we're using AI. I don't suspect particularly different than most appears this way, other than the fact that I think we have -- going back the core replacement project over the last decade, I mean, it forced us to do something that I think few others were forced to do. And that is to dramatically focus on the quality of data and its organization.

當然。我的意思是，我們在使用 AI 的方面有各式各樣的事情在進行。我不認為這在表面上會特別不同於大多數人所做的，除了我認為我們——回到過去十年核心替換專案——我的意思是，它迫使我們去做一件我認為很少有人被迫去做的事。那就是大幅聚焦於資料品質及其組織方式。

So I felt, we cleaned the house before we moved into a new house. We threw away a lot of the junk. We organize things. And that's proving to be -- I think that's going to really prove to be useful, in terms of speeding up the delivery of solutions.

所以我覺得，我們是在搬進新房子之前先把家裡打掃乾淨。我們丟掉了很多垃圾。我們把事情整理得更有條理。而這正被證明——我認為這將會非常有用，尤其是在加快解決方案交付速度方面。

The kinds of things we're using it for -- I mean, just examples, we're using it for things like appraisal review all kinds of document review contract review. We're using it in our credit exam or credit review function to expand the population of deals that we're looking at and to basically, instead of having people finding needles by haystacks. They're now -- people are now looking at the needles that we find with other tools. And so the -- I mean, the use cases go on.

我們用它來做的事情——我的意思是，舉例來說，我們用它做估價審查、各類文件審閱、合約審閱。我們也在信用檢查或信用審查職能中使用它，以擴大我們所檢視的交易母體，基本上，讓人不必再在草堆裡找針。現在——人們現在是在看我們用其他工具找出來的那些針。所以——我的意思是，使用情境還有很多。

People are looking for savings or technology. I came across something earlier today. I was looking -- I came across just our headcount back in 2008. I was 18 years ago, there's nothing magic about the year, except that our headcount is down 20% and our -- back then, we were about $54 billion company, you have to inflation adjust that. But even with that, I mean, it's about a 25% improvement in productivity for dollar real assets. And AI is becoming a part of that. My view is AI isn't -- it's a new shiny object, but a lot of different technologies have led to improvement in productivity over the years. I think this has the promise of accelerating it somewhat.

大家在尋找節省成本或技術上的提升。我今天稍早看到一件事。我在看——我看到我們在 2008 年時的人力編制。那是 18 年前，年份本身沒有什麼神奇之處，只是我們的人力編制下降了 20%，而我們——當時我們大約是一家 540 億美元的公司，你得把通膨因素調整進去。但即便如此，我的意思是，以實質資產美元計算，生產力大約提升了 25%。而 AI 正在成為其中的一部分。我的看法是，AI 不是——它是一個新的閃亮物件，但多年來許多不同的技術都帶來了生產力的提升。我認為它有望在某種程度上加速這個趨勢。

I mean, we'll be looking at it. And we on the surface of a few things, but we've got a variety of projects going on. As to the threat from AI, certainly, there's a concern about agentic AI, on margins, et cetera. But I also think that some of these things get overplayed. I think that's probably going to be the case in some places.

我的意思是，我們會持續關注它。我們在少數幾件事上已經有一些初步成果，但我們同時也有各式各樣的專案在進行。至於 AI 帶來的威脅，當然，對於具代理能力的 AI（agentic AI）在利差等方面確實有疑慮。但我也認為，有些事情被過度渲染了。我想在某些地方很可能就是如此。

But a lot of the balances we have, a lot of the free balance we have actually harm free balances, they're paying for services. A lot of it's analyzed. And in a world where if you see more agentic AI optimizing, you'll see -- I mean the economies, I'm a great believer that the magic of our free enterprise economy is it's really resilient and responsive to change. And so you'll see things priced maybe you're free today that maybe get charged for you. everybody will kind of figure out their way.

但我們有很多餘額、很多所謂的免費餘額，其實並不是免費餘額——它們是在為服務付費。其中很多是經過分析計算的。而在一個如果你看到更多具代理能力的 AI 進行最佳化的世界裡，你會看到——我的意思是，經濟體，我一直深信我們自由企業經濟的魔力在於它真的很有韌性、也能迅速回應變化。所以你會看到一些今天可能是免費的東西，未來可能會開始收費。大家都會找到自己的方式。

And I think back to -- I've been around long enough. I remember when rec was removed. And if you told me that four years later, we have more in way of noninterest-bearing demand deposits as a percent of total deposits and we had in 19 -- in the early 1980s, I'd have said that's impossible. And yes, that's the case. And so I think the -- you have to take with a grain of salt, sort of the sky is going to fall because companies adjust pricing adjust, et cetera.

而我回想起——我在這行待得夠久了。我記得當準備金要求（rec）被取消的時候。如果你告訴我四年後，我們的無息活期存款占總存款的比例，會比 19——比 1980 年代初期還要高，我會說那不可能。但沒錯，事實就是如此。所以我認為——你得抱持保留態度看待那種「天要塌下來了」的說法，因為企業會調整定價、調整做法，等等。

So I think the important thing is to make sure that you're not -- you don't have your head in your sand in the sand, you're keeping focused on what customers want that you're supplying solutions -- and that's where it is right now is kind of how do we develop and participate in solutions that actually help customers. and improve the relationships we have with them. I think as long as we -- yes, we're doing that. It's going to work out fine.

所以我認為重要的是要確保你不是——你不要把頭埋在沙子裡，你要持續聚焦在客戶想要什麼、你正在提供解決方案——而目前的重點就在於：我們如何開發並參與那些真正能幫助客戶的解決方案，並改善我們與他們之間的關係。我認為只要我們——是的，我們正在這麼做。一切都會很順利。

Okay. And with that, it looks like that's all the questions we have. I would like to now turn the floor back over to Andrea Christoffersen for closing remarks.

好的。那麼，看起來這就是我們所有的問題了。我現在想把時間交回給 Andrea Christoffersen 作結語。

Thank you, Julian, and thank you to all for joining us today. We appreciate your interest in Zions Bancorporation. If you have additional questions, please contact us at the e-mail or phone number listed on our website. We look forward to connecting with you throughout the coming months. This concludes today's call.

謝謝你，Julian，也謝謝各位今天加入我們。我們感謝各位對 Zions Bancorporation 的關注。如果你有其他問題，請透過我們網站上列出的電子郵件或電話號碼與我們聯繫。我們期待在接下來的幾個月持續與各位交流。今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you. And with that, this does conclude today's teleconference. We thank you for your participation. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and have a wonderful rest of your day.

謝謝。那麼，今天的電話會議也就到此結束。感謝各位的參與。你現在可以掛斷電話線，祝你今天剩下的時間愉快。