Ermenegildo Zegna NV (ZGN) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon and good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining the Ermenegildo Zegna Group H1 2025 financial results call. Please note that today's material and presentation are available under the zegnagroup.com website.

大家下午好，早安。感謝您參加 Ermenegildo Zegna 集團 2025 年上半年財務業績電話會議。請注意，今天的材料和簡報可在 zegnagroup.com 網站上找到。

Joining us today, the Zegna Group leadership team, including Gianluca Tagliabue, Group CFO and COO; and Paola Durante, Chief of External Relations. Before we begin, we need to point out that the team will make certain forward-looking statements during the call.

今天與我們一起出席的還有傑尼亞集團領導團隊，包括集團財務長兼營運長 Gianluca Tagliabue 和對外關係主管 Paola Durante。在開始之前，我們需要指出，團隊將在通話期間做出某些前瞻性的陳述。

The group actual results may be materially different from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements. Also, these statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those described in our SEC filings. Please refer to the forward-looking statements' cautionary statement included at page 2 of today's presentation.

本集團的實際業績可能與這些前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的業績有重大差異。此外，這些聲明也受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所描述的風險和不確定性。請參閱今天簡報第 2 頁中的前瞻性聲明的警告聲明。

I will now hand over to Paola Durante.

現在我將把時間交給 Paola Durante。

Thank you. Thank you, operator, and good morning, and good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for being here today on our H1 2025 results conference call. As already has been said by the operator, I'm Paola Durante. And here with me there is Gianluca Tagliabueour CFO and COO; and Alice Poggioli, our Director.

謝謝。謝謝接線員，大家早安，下午好。感謝您今天參加我們 2025 年上半年的業績電話會議。正如接線員所說，我是 Paola Durante。和我一起的還有我們的財務長兼營運長 Gianluca Tagliabue；以及我們的董事 Alice Poggioli。

I will briefly comment on first six months financial results. And then we'll leave the floor to Gianluca for some final remarks. First half 2025 revenues have been confirmed at EUR928 million, minus 2% organic driven by a good -- a very good plus 6% DTC organic performance. But I will skip commenting more on revenues since we have already seen commented during our call at the end of July. So let's then move on the presentation at page 7.

我將簡要評論一下前六個月的財務表現。然後我們將請詹盧卡發表最後的演講。2025 年上半年的收入已確認為 9.28 億歐元，其中有機增長為 2%，這得益於良好的 DTC 有機業績，而有機增長則為 6%。但我不會對收入發表更多評論，因為我們在 7 月底的電話會議上已經看到了評論。那麼讓我們繼續第 7 頁的示範。

First of all, we start deep diving on our metrics, looking at gross profit. First, 2025 gross profit reached EUR626 million with a margin on sales of 67.5%, 110 basis points margin improvement has been driven mainly by a better channel mix since the DTC revenues generated 82% of our group branded revenues, which is higher -- 6 percentage points higher compared to the 76% in the first six months of 2024. And as you know, you perfectly know, DTC gross margin is higher than the wholesale.

首先，我們開始深入研究我們的指標，看看毛利。首先，2025 年毛利達到 6.26 億歐元，銷售利潤率為 67.5%，利潤率提高 110 個基點，主要得益於更好的通路組合，因為 DTC 收入占我們集團品牌收入的 82%，這一比例更高——與 2024 年前六個月的 76% 相比高出 6 個百分點。如您所知，DTC 的毛利率高於批發。

Moving to selling, general and administrative costs. You know that these costs are on the other hand, the other phase of the coin when strengthening the DTC channel. These costs reached in the first six months, EUR502 million, in line with the EUR498 million in the first six months of 2024. The incidence on revenues has grown to 54.1%, which compares to 51.8%. And this higher incidence on revenue has been largely driven due to three main effects.

轉向銷售、一般和管理費用。您知道，這些成本是另一方面，在加強 DTC 管道時硬幣的另一個階段。上半年這些成本達到 5.02 億歐元，與 2024 年上半年的 4.98 億歐元持平。收入發生率已增長至 54.1%，而之前為 51.8%。收入發生率的上升主要是由三個主要因素造成的。

The first one, a negative operating leverage, particularly at Thom Browne. The second the costs related to support our long-term growth trajectory in particularly in building talent team, in building stronger IT infrastructure and CRM platform. And this is particularly not only, but in particular a Tom Ford fashion. The third element is higher initial cost incidents for the newly opened stores. It is normal that at the beginning, stores do not reach the long-term revenue -- run rate revenue.

第一個是負的經營槓桿，尤其是在 Thom Browne。第二項成本與支援我們的長期成長軌跡有關，特別是建立人才團隊、建立更強大的 IT 基礎架構和 CRM 平台。這不僅是特別的，而且是特別的湯姆福特時尚。第三個因素是新開店的初始成本事件較高。商店在開始時達不到長期收入——運行率收入，這是正常的。

So the incidence of cost related to the openings is normally initially higher. At the same time, we undertook actions to contain costs across all the three brands, which has helped maintaining under control this -- the selling, general and administrative costs.

因此，與開業相關的成本發生率通常最初較高。同時，我們採取措施控制三個品牌的成本，這有助於控制銷售、一般和管理成本。

Moving to marketing. Marketing expenses reached EUR63 million, around 7% incidence on revenues, so substantially in line with what we reported last year. At least notwithstanding some important events that took place in the first six months of 2025. You perfectly remember the Villa Zegna Dubai. But I also remind you that also last year, we had some important events.

轉向行銷。行銷費用達到 6,300 萬歐元，佔收入的 7% 左右，與我們去年報告的數字基本一致。至少儘管 2025 年上半年發生了一些重要事件。您清楚記得迪拜傑尼亞別墅 (Villa Zegna Dubai)。但我也提醒大家，去年我們也發生了一些重要事件。

Okay. So with page 7, I would not comment more. Let's move let's skip to page 8 of the presentation, where we analyze our [adjusted EBIT] for the group and by segment. First of all, you know that adjusted EBIT is the main performance metric that we use to analyze our business, both at group at the segmental level.

好的。因此對於第 7 頁，我不會發表更多評論。讓我們跳到簡報的第 8 頁，我們將在該頁分析集團和各部門的 [調整後息稅前利潤]。首先，您知道調整後的息稅前利潤是我們用來分析集團和分部業務的主要績效指標。

For the reconciliations between adjusted EBITDA and operating profit, you can look -- you can see on the appendix of this presentation. So in the first half of 2025, adjusted EBIT reached EUR69 million with an EBIT margin of 7.4%, down 100 basis points versus the first six months of last year.

對於調整後的 EBITDA 與營業利潤之間的對賬，您可以查看——您可以在本簡報的附錄中看到。因此，2025 年上半年，調整後的息稅前利潤達到 6,900 萬歐元，息稅前利潤率為 7.4%，比去年上半年下降了 100 個基點。

The reason of this decline is clearly linked to what I already commented when talking about selling, general and administrative higher incidents and also has been negatively -- slightly negatively impacted by the currencies movement. You remember that since April, currencies, euro appreciated, particularly compared to US dollar and Renminbi, which are the two most important currencies for our group.

這種下降的原因顯然與我在談論銷售、一般和行政更高事件時已經評論過的內容有關，並且還受到了貨幣走勢的負面影響——略微負面影響。您記得，自四月以來，歐元等貨幣不斷升值，尤其是相對於美元和人民幣而言，這兩者對我們集團來說是最重要的貨幣。

Let me also comment or there are something that we already said during the call in July. We confirm that also in 2025 in the second part, adjusted EBIT will be higher compared to the first part of the year. Of course, we are aware that the sector remains challenging and volatile. However, we know that we have implemented actions to protect our profitability.

我也想評論一下我們在 7 月的電話會議中已經討論過的一些事情。我們確認，2025 年下半年調整後的息稅前利潤也將高於上半年。當然，我們知道該行業仍然充滿挑戰和動盪。然而，我們知道我們已經採取行動來保護我們的獲利能力。

Let's now look to our results by segment. First of all, talking about the Zegna segment, which, as you know, includes not only Zegna brand, but also the Textile division and the third-party brands. This segment generated an adjusted EBIT of EUR94 million, with a margin of 14.3%, which compared to 12.8% in the first semester of 2024.

現在讓我們按部分查看結果。首先，談談傑尼亞部門，如您所知，它不僅包括傑尼亞品牌，還包括紡織部門和第三方品牌。該部門的調整後息稅前利潤為 9,400 萬歐元，利潤率為 14.3%，而 2024 年第一季為 12.8%。

This important 150 bps increase has been led by higher operating leverage, largely as a result of a more efficient DTC channel and cost control measures. Thom Browne, Adjusted EBIT for the Thom Browne segment was EUR4 million compared to EUR20 million in the first six months of 2024. This adjusted EBIT contraction was driven by the sharp decrease in revenues in the period, in particular in the wholesale channel, and an increase in the selling cost, in particular due to the DTC network expansion.

這一重要的 150 個基點成長是由更高的營運槓桿推動的，這主要是由於更有效率的 DTC 通路和成本控制措施。Thom Browne，Thom Browne 部門的調整後息稅前利潤為 400 萬歐元，而 2024 年前六個月為 2000 萬歐元。調整後的息稅前利潤收縮是由於本期收入急劇下降（尤其是批發管道的收入）以及銷售成本增加（特別是由於 DTC 網路擴張）。

Let's now move to Tom Ford Fashion segment, which has recorded a EUR19 million adjusted EBIT loss, which compares to the EUR12 million negative last year. This is a result of the planned -- the expected investments that we made in the store network expansion in talent team in building a talent team in building a better, stronger IT infrastructure to create the right size platform to support the business expansion. I leave for further comments and questions at the end.

現在讓我們來看看湯姆福特時尚部門，該部門調整後的息稅前利潤虧損為 1900 萬歐元，而去年為負 1200 萬歐元。這是有計劃的結果——我們在門市網路擴張、人才團隊建立、人才團隊建立、建立更好、更強大的 IT 基礎設施方面進行了預期投資，以創建合適規模的平台來支援業務擴展。最後，我將留下進一步的評論和問題。

Let's now move to page 9, income statement. Here, I just commented the net profit line, the profit line, which reached in the first six months of this year, 48 -- EUR47.9 million to be precise, up 53% compared to the EUR31 million last year.

現在我們來看第 9 頁，損益表。這裡我剛剛評論了淨利潤線，利潤線，今年上半年達到了4800萬歐元，準確的說是4790萬歐元，比去年的3100萬歐元增長了53%。

The increase in profit is the result of the higher financial income and foreign exchange gains. These two items combined moved in the semester from a negative EUR25 million to a positive plus EUR6 million. And this reflects largely, I would say, the fair value measurement of liability for put option held by noncontrolling interest. The most important liability is actually held in US dollars. So the euro appreciation has also benefited this line.

利潤增加是由於財務收入和外匯收益增加。這兩項項目的總和在本學期從負 2500 萬歐元變為正 600 萬歐元。我想說，這在很大程度上反映了非控制股東持有的看跌期權負債的公允價值計量。最重要的負債實際上是以美元持有的。因此歐元升值也使該行受益。

And the second important effect to consider is looking at the tax rate, the income taxes, which was of EUR20.1 million in the first six months of 2025, corresponding to a tax rate of 30% versus last year 35%, as you see from the table. I can also anticipate that the tax rate in the region of 30% -- 28% to 30% is more aligned to our expectations for [Zegna].

要考慮的第二個重要影響是稅率，即所得稅，如表格所示，2025 年前六個月的所得稅為 2,010 萬歐元，對應稅率為 30%，而去年的稅率為 35%。我還可以預期，稅率在 30% 到 28% 之間，更符合我們的預期。[傑尼亞]。

And now let's look at capital expenditure. So let's move to page 10 of the presentation, CapEx reached EUR54 million with the incidence of revenues of around 6%. This EUR54 million has been 2/3 related to investments in the development of the store network across the three brands. And the remaining part is mainly related to the investments in production, we are building the important plant for the shoe business in [Pharma] and also some IT investments.

現在讓我們來看看資本支出。讓我們翻到簡報的第 10 頁，資本支出達到 5,400 萬歐元，收入發生率約 6%。這 5,400 萬歐元中有三分之二用於投資三個品牌的門市網路建設。其餘部分主要與生產投資有關，我們正在為[製藥]鞋業建造重要的工廠，同時也進行一些 IT 投資。

For year-end, you remember, we anticipate a CapEx -- incidence on CapEx on revenue of around 6%, 7% and I can confirm this expectation, also because in the second part of the year, investments for the greenfield production site for footwear will actually kick in even more importantly.

您記得，對於年底，我們預計資本支出佔收入的比例約為 6% 到 7%，我可以確認這一預期，因為在今年下半年，對鞋類綠地生產基地的投資實際上將發揮更重要的作用。

Trade working capital in the -- at the end of June was equal to EUR442 million, which compares to EUR467 million last year. This reduction has been driven by better inventory management, as you can see from the chart and also lower receivable. The last one, clearly also linked to the streamlining of the wholesale business.

截至 6 月底，貿易營運資本為 4.42 億歐元，而去年同期為 4.67 億歐元。從圖表中可以看出，這一減少是由於庫存管理改善以及應收帳款減少所致。最後一點顯然也與批發業務的精簡有關。

Finally, on page 11, free cash flow, I just commented that the free cash absorption has been of EUR23 million this year. And last year, it was around EUR7 million, and this higher absorption, as you can see, has been driven by the lower operating cash flow. Not much to comment on page 12, just saying that the net debt at the end of June of EUR92 million was actually fairly in line with what we reported at the end of December 2024.

最後，在第 11 頁的自由現金流中，我剛剛評論說，今年的自由現金吸收量為 2,300 萬歐元。去年，這一數字約為 700 萬歐元，如您所見，吸收量的增加是由於經營現金流減少所致。第 12 頁沒有太多可評論的，只是說 6 月底的淨債務為 9,200 萬歐元，實際上與我們在 2024 年 12 月底報告的金額相當一致。

I will finish here my brief comments and leave now the floor to Gianluca for the final remarks. Thank you.

我的簡短發言就到此結束，現在請詹盧卡作最後的發言。謝謝。

Thank you, Paola. Good afternoon, everybody. Let me give you a brief update on the actions that we did in the last few weeks since we last spoke before going to the Q&A session, starting with Zegna. We just launched the Zegna Fall Winter '25 marketing campaign, labeled "it's not a suit, it's Zegna. For Fall '25, a new chapter is being presented diluted in a century of style.

謝謝你，Paola。大家下午好。在進入問答環節之前，讓我先從傑尼亞開始，簡單介紹一下我們自上次談話以來過去幾週所採取的行動。我們剛剛啟動了傑尼亞 25 秋冬行銷活動，主題是「這不是西裝，這是傑尼亞」。2025 年秋季，百年風格交織，譜寫新篇章。

The focus of the campaign is Zegna Torino, the suit that comes directly from our founders closet, and we made it with our unique new fabric, the values are [M], the finest wool in the world. In the campaign, the Torino suit is matched with [data shows] that are the winter version of our Triple Stitch to create a unique charismatic and in one word, Zegna [look]. The campaign accompanies the launch of drop two of the fall/winter collection, which has received in the store's initial positive feedback since we began presales and preorders a couple of weeks ago.

活動的焦點是 Zegna Torino，這套西裝直接來自我們創始人的衣櫥，我們用獨特的新面料製作它，其價值是 [M]，即世界上最好的羊毛。在活動中，Torino 西裝搭配了我們的 Triple Stitch 冬季版，營造出獨特的魅力，一句話，Zegna[看]。這項活動伴隨著秋冬系列第二批產品的推出，自從幾週前我們開始預售和預訂以來，該系列產品在商店中獲得了初步的積極反饋。

Moving on to the Zegna DTC network. We are pleased to announce the opening of our new store in Miami Design District, marking another important step forward in the strategic expansion of our presence in the US market.

繼續討論 Zegna DTC 網路。我們很高興地宣佈在邁阿密設計區開設新店，這標誌著我們在美國市場策略擴張的另一個重要一步。

Additionally, we just opened a new [soloto] which are the permanent appointment stores for our very important client at Plaza 66 in Shanghai, bringing the total to 3 globally following the openings in [shinco place], Beijing and Paragon Singapore.

此外，我們剛剛在上海恆隆廣場開設了一家新的[soloto]，這是我們非常重要的客戶的永久預約商店，繼北京[shinco place]和新加坡Paragon之後，全球總數達到3家。

As you know, as I said, the slot is a by appointment-only store offering exclusive collections that you don't find in the regular stores and the unique shopping experience that reflects the essence of Zegna luxury and personalization offer.

正如我所說，您知道，該店是一家僅限預約的商店，提供您在普通商店找不到的獨家系列以及獨特的購物體驗，體現了傑尼亞奢華和個性化服務的精髓。

Moving to Thom Browne. We just launched the Fall 25 campaign, which in line with the brand communication strategy that reflects an evolution of uniformity to include lifestyle-oriented visuals with distinctive DNA that makes Thom Browne authentic and unique remaining unmistakably present. On Thom Browne, let me also remind you that since September 2 to this week, we are pleased to have [unlock] that has officially started his mandate as CEO of the brand.

轉向 Thom Browne。我們剛剛啟動了秋季 25 活動，該活動符合品牌傳播策略，反映了統一性的演變，包括以生活方式為導向的視覺效果和獨特的 DNA，使 Thom Browne 的真實性和獨特性得以清晰呈現。關於 Thom Browne，我還要提醒大家，自 9 月 2 日至本週，我們很高興 [unlock] 已正式開始擔任該品牌的執行長。

And finally, Tom Ford Fashion. The first Tom Ford campaign signed by [either aquaman] has been released, and it has been very well received, as confirmed by many comments made by journalists and media experts. Either collection touch the stores floor at the end of August, it is, therefore, early to comment on the trends, but the first very initial reactions in the stores have been really positive.

最後是湯姆福特時尚。首支由[海王]簽約的Tom Ford廣告大片已經發布，並獲得了廣泛好評，眾多記者和媒體專家的評論也證實了這一點。無論哪個系列都會在八月底登陸商店，因此現在評論趨勢還為時過早，但商店最初的反應確實非常積極。

All in all, I can say we have entered September with good energy across all three brands, but it's essential to remain cautious and vigilant as initial signs should not be considered yet as a consolidated trend. The sector continues to fail (technical difficulty) which cause [for a] cautious and thoughtful approach.

總而言之，我可以說，我們三個品牌在進入九月時都充滿活力，但必須保持謹慎和警惕，因為初步跡像不應被視為鞏固趨勢。該行業持續出現故障（技術困難），導致需要採取謹慎和深思熟慮的方法。

As a final comment, I can add that by region, we still continue to see strong momentum in Europe, Middle East and Americas. GCR remains challenging and volatile. It is true that in some recent weeks, the trend in GCR has slightly improved, also thanks to easier comparison base, but still staying on the negative side. So it is yet early to draw a solid conclusion about this latest trend of GCR.

最後，我可以補充一點，按地區劃分，我們仍然看到歐洲、中東和美洲的強勁勢頭。GCR 依然充滿挑戰且不穩定。確實，最近幾週，GCR 的趨勢略有改善，這也得益於更容易比較的基礎，但仍處於負面狀態。因此，現在對 GCR 的最新趨勢得出確切結論還為時過早。

I think I can stop here and we can now open to the Q&A session. Paola?

我想我可以就此打住，現在我們可以開始問答環節。保拉？

Thank you, Gianluca. Please, operator, can you open to the first questions from our audience.

謝謝你，詹盧卡。接線員，請回答觀眾的第一個問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Anthony Charchafji, BNP Paribas.

安東尼‧查查夫吉，法國巴黎銀行。

Yes. Good morning. It's Anthony from BNP. Thank you very much for taking my question. I have just two. The first one would be on the current performance in terms of margin. It seems that the gross profit margin is still continuing its further direction since last H1 '24. Could you maybe give a bit more color on the bridge of this plus 110 bps, maybe given the pricing FX impact on top of channel mix. That would be my first question. And also if we should still see 67% at least gross margin in H2 despite the tariffs?

是的。早安.我是英國國家黨的安東尼。非常感謝您回答我的問題。我只有兩個。第一個是關於利潤率的當前表現。看來毛利率仍延續自 2024 年上半年以來的進一步走勢。您能否對此加上 110 個基點的橋樑給出更多的說明，也許考慮到定價外匯對通路組合的影響。這是我的第一個問題。儘管有關稅，我們下半年的毛利率是否仍能達到至少 67%？

My second question would be on H2 and I would say, expectation -- so thank you for giving a bit of color on the current trends. It seems that consensus is expecting close to 4% organic in H2, which is a nice improvement from Q2.

我的第二個問題是關於 H2 的，我想說的是期望——所以感謝您對當前趨勢的解釋。看來大家普遍預計下半年有機成長率將接近 4%，比第二季有了很大的進步。

You already commented that you were happy with consensus being around EUR173 million at the EBIT level, which would imply a flat margin. Are you still expecting this development in terms both of top line and margin? That would be my second question. Thank you.

您已經表示，您對息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 水準約為 1.73 億歐元的共識感到滿意，這意味著利潤率持平。您是否仍期待營業收入和利潤率的這種發展？這是我的第二個問題。謝謝。

Thank you, Anthony, and I'll leave clearly all the two questions to Gianluca, the first one on gross profit, both analysis on the first half and what we expect for the second part of the year and then on the consensus expectations.

謝謝你，安東尼，我會把所有兩個問題留給詹盧卡，第一個問題是關於毛利的，既是對上半年的分析，也是我們對下半年的預期，然後是普遍預期。

So gross margin -- hi, Anthony, by the way. Gross margin, the evolution is definitely a result of the DTC revenues that are reaching at this point 88% versus 86% last year. And within the DTC, we have been pushing, I think we have discussed many times, also the quality of the DTC, it's not something that we report, but we carefully monitor the sell-through and sell through at full price, which definitely is a step ahead on the Zegna brand versus the other two brands. But in the three brands with different level of maturities we are pushing up the sell-through implicitly creating the opportunity to reduce the number and the incidence of outlets.

那麼毛利率——順便說一下，安東尼，你好。毛利率的變化肯定是 DTC 收入的結果，目前比例已達 88%，而去年為 86%。在 DTC 內部，我們一直在推動，我想我們已經討論過很多次了，還有 DTC 的質量，這不是我們報告的內容，但我們會仔細監控銷售情況和全價銷售情況，這絕對是傑尼亞品牌相對於其他兩個品牌領先一步。但在三個成熟度不同的品牌中，我們正在暗中提高銷售量，創造機會減少門市的數量和發生率。

So those are -- one number is evident, the DTC waste within the DTC is the quality of the DTC that is the underlying factor that is helping us move forward the gross margin where we think we deserve to be. And apart from channel, of course, the journey of personalization is also a driver.

所以這些是——一個數字是顯而易見的，DTC 中的 DTC 浪費是 DTC 的質量，這是幫助我們提高我們認為應得的毛利率的根本因素。當然，除了管道之外，個人化之旅也是一個驅動因素。

The fact that we are able to transfer into the price, the quality and the service unique that we deliver to our customers. So I think that is an indicator -- a synthetic indicator of our ability to stay full price and be recognized for the policy that we deliver.

事實上，我們能夠將這一優勢轉化為我們向客戶提供的價格、品質和獨特的服務。所以我認為這是一個指標——一個綜合指標，表明我們有能力保持全價並因我們提供的政策而獲得認可。

In terms of H2, if you remember, we indicated low single-digit growth on the revenue side for the year, we confirm that in organic terms. So we clarify that in organic terms, when we provided the indication in the USD-Euro and Renminbi-Euro were very different from today.

就下半年而言，如果您還記得的話，我們曾指出今年的收入將呈現低個位數成長，我們以自然成長的形式證實了這一點。因此，我們澄清，從有機角度來看，當時我們提供的美元兌歐元和人民幣兌歐元的指示與今天有很大不同。

So of course, we need to take this into account. And today, the consensus that we see at [EUR1.123 billion], by art, nobody cares the right number, [EUR1923]. We believe that correctly reflects also the change in currency. So if you look at that number on an organic basis, corresponds to low single-digit organic.

所以當然我們需要考慮到這一點。今天，我們看到的共識是[11.23億歐元]，實際上，沒有人關心正確的數字，[1923 歐元]。我們相信這也正確反映了貨幣的變化。因此，如果您從有機角度來看該數字，則相當於低個位數有機數字。

And on the adjusted EBIT. I think that our -- the consensus that we have in front of us that is [173] indeed is incorporating the same thing about the currency swing. And we believe that this adjusted EBIT at consensus [173] is realistic.

以及調整後的息稅前利潤。我認為我們面前的共識[173]確實包含了關於貨幣波動的相同內容。我們認為，這項調整後的息稅前利潤（EBIT）符合共識[173]。

Okay. Anthony, I think we answered, but if there is any follow-up, we are here. If not, we can go to the second question or the second analyst from the --

好的。安東尼，我想我們已經回答了，但如果有任何後續問題，我們會在這裡。如果沒有，我們可以轉到第二個問題或第二位分析師--

All good. Thank you.

一切都好。謝謝。

Operator for the second one.

第二個的操作員。

Oliver Chen, TD Cowen.

奧利弗·陳（Oliver Chen），TD Cowen。

Hi, this is [Tom Nas] on for Oliver. I wanted to ask about the margin improvement in the Zegna segment, specifically, if you could speak to some of the opportunities you think may be on the road ahead as to where segment margins could trend over the longer term?

大家好，我是 Oliver 的 [Tom Nas]。我想問一下 Zegna 部門利潤率的提高情況，具體來說，您能否談談您認為未來可能存在的一些機會，以及長期來看部門利潤率的趨勢如何？

And then as a follow-up, I wanted to ask on margins in the Thom Browne segment and the progress you've been seeing there with the wholesale rationalization. I guess, more specifically, how should we think about modeling margins in Thom Browne segment over the long term? Thanks.

然後作為後續問題，我想問 Thom Browne 部門的利潤率以及批發合理化的進展。我想，更具體地說，我們應該如何考慮長期塑造 Thom Browne 細分市場的利潤率？謝謝。

Thank you [Oliver]. Thank you for the two questions. They are both on operating margins on EBITDA. The first one is for Zegna and the opportunities on the long term. And the second one is on Thom Browne. So Again, Gianluca is your man.

謝謝[奧利佛]。感謝您提出這兩個問題。他們的 EBITDA 營業利潤率都達到。第一個是關於傑尼亞和長期機會的。第二件是關於 Thom Browne 的。所以再說一次，詹盧卡是你的最佳人選。

Yeah. In terms -- [Oliver], in terms of margin for Zegna, we were able to bring it up at this point higher than the 14%. If you ask us what is the journey of this, let's be mindful that we keep on investing on Zegna, we will have also investment. So we need to decouple short term from long term. If you talk -- if we talk about short term didn't commit to a specific number, but definitely, something between 13% and 14% is the number that we see as the number for the year.

是的。就 [Oliver] 而言，就傑尼亞的利潤率而言，我們目前能夠將其提高到 14% 以上。如果您問我們這段旅程是什麼，請記住，我們會繼續對傑尼亞進行投資，我們也會有投資。因此我們需要將短期與長期脫鉤。如果你談論——如果我們談論短期，並沒有承諾一個具體的數字，但肯定的是，13% 到 14% 之間的數字是我們認為的年度數字。

Definitely, the journey of growth for Zegna needs to go up, we have always mentioned the 15%. That is the first step we need to get. So we see the potential for the brand to get there, not for the year. For Thom Browne, of course, we have paid the bill of the minus 52% of wholesale in the first half. We have declared that for the year, the decline of wholesale will not be minus 50%.

毫無疑問，傑尼亞的成長之路需要繼續走高，我們一直提到 15% 這個數字。這是我們需要踏出的第一步。因此，我們看到了該品牌實現這一目標的潛力，而不是一年的時間。對於Thom Browne來說，我們當然在上半年支付了批發業務下降52%的帳單。我們宣布，今年批發額的降幅不會達到-50%。

We see the second half reducing the decline in the range of minus 20%. So the impact in the first half has deeply been affected by this cutdown of revenues, which were fairly higher -- much higher in the first half -- first quarter of 2024.

我們預計下半年跌幅將在-20%左右。因此，上半年的影響深受收入削減的影響，2024 年第一季的收入削減幅度相當高——高得多。

And of course, having on board, Sam Lobban as the new business leader bringing and injecting what we want to be a DTC-centric approach starting from merchandising, starting from training in the retail and all the different levers that then bring to life the stores is what we are betting for Thom Browne to bring -- to bring Thom Browne back to a double-digit EBIT that is where it should be on.

當然，有了 Sam Lobban 作為新任業務領導者，我們將引入並註入以 DTC 為中心的方法，從商品銷售開始，從零售培訓開始，以及所有不同的槓桿，從而為商店注入活力，這正是我們押注 Thom Browne 能夠帶來的——讓 Thom Browne 重回兩位數的息稅前利潤，這是它應該達到的水平。

First, I don't know if [Oliver] we answered your questions or any follow-up, otherwise we go to the next one.

首先，我不知道 [Oliver] 我們是否回答了您的問題或任何後續問題，否則我們將進入下一個問題。

That's all. Thank you.

就這樣。謝謝。

Okay. Operator is there any other questions?

好的。接線生還有其他問題嗎？

Chris Huang, UBS.

瑞銀集團的 Chris Huang。

Hello, hi. Thanks for taking my question. I have two. The first one on current trends. I think Gianluca you previously touched on some early signs of improvement when it comes to the Chinese consumers. If I remember correctly, Q3 was the quarter last year when you started to see meaningfully easier comps for the Chinese consumer. So can you maybe help us understand a little bit more on the signs you're seeing.

你好，你好。感謝您回答我的問題。我有兩個。第一個關於當前趨勢。我認為，詹盧卡，您之前提到過中國消費者的一些早期改善跡象。如果我沒記錯的話，去年第三季是中國消費者開始看到明顯更容易比較的季度。那麼，您能否幫助我們進一步了解您所看到的跡象？

Is the traffic coming back? Is the conversion is going up? And can you also confirm with Chinese consumers in the first two months of the quarter is I know it's still declining, but are we talking about maybe less than double-digit decline in the single-digit area?

交通恢復了嗎？轉換率有在上升嗎？您能否確認本季前兩個月中國消費者的情況？我知道它仍在下降，但我們談論的可能是低於兩位數的下降，還是個位數的下降？

And secondly, on margins, just as a follow-up to the previous question on Zegna segment. If I heard correctly, you said that for 2025, you're expecting Zegna segment margins to land around 13% to 14%. But that would imply H2 to see quite a bit of contraction year-over-year. And on the basis of probably more H1 weighted marketing investments, how do we square this equation? Thank you.

其次，關於利潤率，這與先前關於傑尼亞 (Zegna) 部門的問題相同。如果我沒聽錯的話，您說到 2025 年，您預計 Zegna 的利潤率將達到 13% 至 14% 左右。但這意味著下半年經濟將比去年同期出現相當大的收縮。在可能更多的 H1 加權行銷投資的基礎上，我們如何解決這個等式？謝謝。

Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Let's start with the second one on margin for Zegna and I will leave Gianluca to answer. On the China current trend, we can give you some initial more comments or colors. But really, I would like to leave any detailed comment to our Q3 revenue results conference call that, as you know, is in October, this is not a conference call that is meant to comment deeply on current trends. So leading to Gianluca on margins.

好的。謝謝。謝謝你，克里斯。讓我們從關於 Zegna 利潤的第二個問題開始，我將讓 Gianluca 來回答。關於中國當前的趨勢，我們可以給你一些初步的評論或看法。但實際上，我想把任何詳細的評論留給我們 10 月舉行的第三季收入結果電話會議，正如你所知，這不是一個旨在深入評論當前趨勢的電話會議。因此導致詹盧卡處於邊緣地位。

On margins, we know that we have some investments to be done in the second half. We have, for instance, an event in Miami around [Art Basel] to be done in December. So we have in front of us still four months that are uncertain. So we don't want to set expectations that can be disappointing. So the combination of two let us invite you to stay within that range.

關於利潤率，我們知道下半年我們需要進行一些投資。例如，我們將於 12 月在邁阿密舉辦一場圍繞巴塞爾藝術展的活動。因此，我們面前仍有四個月的不確定時期。所以我們不想設定令人失望的期望。因此，兩者的結合讓我們邀請您保持在該範圍內。

Happy to be -- at the end of the year to say that I was wrong on the upper side. But we know that we have -- we don't want to cut strategic actions. We want to keep on fueling the brand that is with positive tailwinds. So we don't want to squeeze the numbers of the second half of the year in order to deliver an EBIT on the short term. We see big potential on the long run of the Zegna brand, we see results. So we want to keep on having the right events, the right investments, and we are just cutting discretionary costs not anything -- not anything else.

我很高興——在年底的時候我可以說我的預測是錯的。但我們知道，我們不想削減戰略行動。我們希望繼續為這個擁有積極順風的品牌提供動力。因此，我們不想為了在短期內實現息稅前利潤而壓縮下半年的數字。我們看到傑尼亞品牌的長期巨大潛力，也看到了成果。因此，我們希望繼續舉辦正確的活動、進行正確的投資，我們只是在削減可自由支配的成本，而不是其他任何事情。

I think I just follow up on marketing, can you just confirm for the full year group level is still going to be around 6% of sales?

我想我只是跟進行銷，您能否確認全年集團水準仍將達到銷售額的 6% 左右？

6%.

6%。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah, around 6%, at least for the group.

是的，大約 6%，至少對於該集團而言。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Thank you so much, Chris, and leave it to the next one.

非常感謝，克里斯，留待下一位吧。

Louise Singlehurst, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的路易絲·辛格赫斯特。

Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Gianluca, Paolo, thank you for taking my question. Just two quick follow-ups for me, please. Firstly, on pricing. Can you just remind us where we are now going to obviously the full winter pricing that's gone through and any plans for the second half?

大家好，下午好。詹盧卡、保羅，感謝你們回答我的問題。請幫我快速跟進兩個問題。首先，關於定價。您能否提醒我們目前的情況，顯然整個冬季的定價情況以及下半年有什麼計劃？

And I suppose you referenced there is really on the commentary for the US because we've been hearing a lot from the peers recently in terms of the luxury positioning, the price increases that have gone through so far this year, there hasn't really been any impact on volumes or any consumer pushback?

我想您提到的評論確實是針對美國，因為我們最近聽到了很多同行關於奢侈品定位的評論，今年迄今為止的價格上漲對銷量沒有產生任何影響，也沒有消費者產生任何抵觸情緒？

And then secondly, I know this is a call -- it's not about current trading or we're going to get recent trends. But if we think about that low single-digit outlook for the full year and where we are entering September, I suppose where is the biggest -- where is the risk that we still see? Is it more on the China aspect and the pace of recovery?

其次，我知道這是一個呼籲——它與當前交易無關，或者我們將獲得最近的趨勢。但是，如果我們考慮全年低個位數的前景以及我們即將進入的九月份的情況，我想最大的風險在哪裡——我們仍然看到的風險在哪裡？是否更關注中國方面和復甦步伐？

Or is it more the expectations management across the different regions. It's quite interested to hear your feedback on Gianluca because obviously the US is probably a lot stronger than we anticipated year-to-date. And hopefully, there are some tentative signs in China, but I know it's early. Thank you.

或更多的是跨不同地區的期望管理。我很有興趣聽到您對詹盧卡的反饋，因為顯然美國今年迄今為止的表現可能比我們預期的要強大得多。希望中國能出現一些初步跡象，但我知道現在還為時過早。謝謝。

Hi, Louise, so the pricing, it starts from pricing, as we declared, we have been acting always on a low single-digit price increase. That's on a systematic approach to offset cost dynamics and currency dynamics. In Fall '25 when there was the addition of incremental tariffs we have acted in order to reflect this into our US fall/winter '25 prices, which have been live since August of this month. So we have simply taken care of covering the burden of incremental tariffs in US, we are not seeing a substantial unmerang from the consumers.

你好，路易絲，定價從定價開始，正如我們所聲明的，我們一直採取低個位數的價格上漲策略。這是抵消成本動態和貨幣動態的系統方法。2025 年秋季，當關稅增加時，我們已採取行動，將其反映到我們美國 2025 年秋冬價格中，該價格已於本月 8 月生效。因此，我們只是負責承擔美國增量關稅的負擔，並沒有看到消費者遭受重大損失。

As I said before, we keep on seeing good momentum in US. So we have not seen a change, an inflection point in our solid trajectory of growth in US, first in the Zegna brand, but also more recently with the either collection, we can say the same positive momentum also on the Tom Ford. Also, Thom Browne, despite being smaller in the US environment, they have just opened some stores, but the business size is smaller. So that is the comment on the Fall/Winter '25 pricing. The second is paola [remain].

正如我之前所說，我們繼續看到美國的良好勢頭。因此，我們在美國穩健的成長軌跡中沒有看到變化或轉折點，首先是 Zegna 品牌，而且最近無論是哪個系列，我們都可以說 Tom Ford 也呈現出了同樣的積極勢頭。還有Thom Browne，雖然在美國環境下規模較小，只是剛開了一些店，但業務規模較小。這是對 25 年秋冬定價的評論。第二個是paola[保持]。

The second was the outlook for H2 and where we see the main risk is China or --

第二個是下半年的前景，我們認為主要風險是中國或--

It's China because we are still in a volatile environment. So we don't want to draw a conclusion from few weeks where we are seeing the trend less negative. So easier base of comparison. So we want to -- we would be much more comfortable in a situation when we see China solid. As [Jimluca] mentioned last time, we are entering the next year into a cautious mode that we have labeled China into a new normal, to the dimension that.

是中國，因為我們仍然處於動盪的環境中。因此，我們不想僅從幾週的觀察就得出趨勢不再那麼消極的結論。因此比較基礎更容易。所以我們希望——當我們看到中國實力雄厚時，我們會感到更安心。正如 [Jimluca] 上次提到的那樣，我們將進入一個謹慎的模式，即中國進入新常態。

So we want to think and we want to plan and be ready for 2026, which is steady to this year. So that is -- we are not banking on a rebound for next year of China. Then if it comes, we will be ready to take advantage and enjoy the growth. But we are planning to stay in this new normal situation through next year.

因此，我們要思考、要規劃，為 2026 年做好準備，這與今年的情況一致。所以，我們並不指望中國明年會反彈。如果它到來，我們將準備好利用它並享受它的成長。但我們計劃明年繼續保持這種新常態。

Thank you, Louise. Okay. Is there any follow-up questions? Any other questions from the audience?

謝謝你，路易絲。好的。還有其他後續問題嗎？觀眾還有其他問題嗎？

We have no further questions registered. So Paola, I'll hand back to you.

我們沒有其他問題。那麼 Paola，我將把任務交還給你。

Thank you. Thank you to everybody. As always, a very interesting and nice question to answer. We always enjoy spending some time with you. And because we enjoy, we will soon see on October 23. So let's see and catch up on Q3 revenues in a month. Thank you, everybody. Have a nice weekend.

謝謝。謝謝大家。一如既往，這是一個非常有趣且值得回答的問題。我們總是很高興與您共度時光。因為我們很享受，所以我們很快就會在 10 月 23 日看到。那麼讓我們來看看一個月後第三季的營收狀況。謝謝大家。祝你周末愉快。

Thank you everyone for joining us today. That concludes our call and you may now disconnect your lines.

感謝大家今天的參加。我們的通話到此結束，您可以掛斷電話了。