Ermenegildo Zegna NV (ZGN) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining the Ermenegildo Zegna Group FY2024 financial results call. Please note that today's material and presentation are available under the zegnagroup.com website.

午安.大家早安。感謝您參加 Ermenegildo Zegna 集團 2024 財年財務業績電話會議。請注意，今天的材料和簡報可在 zegnagroup.com 網站上找到。

Joining us today, the Zegna Group leadership team, including Ermenegildo Zegna, the group CEO, and Gianluca Ambrogio Tagliabue, Group CFO and COO. Before we begin, we need to point out that the team will make certain forward-looking statements during the call. The group actual results may be materially different from those expressed or implied by these forward-looking statements. Also, these statements are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties, including those described in our SEC filings. Please refer to the forward-looking statements cautionary statement included at page 2 of today's presentation.

今天與我們一起出席的還有傑尼亞集團領導團隊，包括集團執行長 Ermenegildo Zegna 和集團財務長兼營運長 Gianluca Ambrogio Tagliabue。在開始之前，我們需要指出，團隊將在通話期間做出某些前瞻性的陳述。本集團的實際業績可能與這些前瞻性陳述所表達或暗示的業績有重大差異。此外，這些聲明也受到許多風險和不確定性的影響，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中所描述的風險和不確定性。請參閱今天簡報第 2 頁的前瞻性聲明警示聲明。

I will now hand over to Ermenegildo Zegna.

現在我將把時間交給 Ermenegildo Zegna。

Thank you and good morning and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today to talk about Ermenegildo Zegna Group full-year '24 results. As you all know, '24 was a different year than what we initially planned. Despite the challenges, we delivered and adjusted EBIT of EUR184 million. And although I cannot be fully satisfied with the numbers we present today, I'm absolutely assured by the proven strength of our teams in navigating challenging moments with discipline and determinations.

謝謝大家，早安，下午好。感謝您今天加入我們討論傑尼亞集團 24 年全年業績。眾所周知，24 年與我們最初計劃的不同。儘管面臨挑戰，我們仍實現了 1.84 億歐元的調整後息稅前利潤。儘管我對我們今天公佈的數字不能完全滿意，但我對我們的團隊憑藉紀律和決心應對挑戰時刻的實力充滿信心。

I would like to start this call by sharing some reflections on last year as well as our outlook going forward. First, let me start by commenting on the most recent event Tom Ford for Winter '25 Fashion Show in Paris. The person cannot recall such an anonymous acclaim from the press and key opinion leaders. The show has been celebrated. It's one of the best of the season, recognized for its innovative collection and presentation.

在這次電話會議開始時，我想分享一些去年的回顧以及我們對未來的展望。首先，讓我先來評論一下最近在巴黎舉辦的湯姆福特 25 冬季時裝秀。該人不記得曾經得到媒體和意見領袖的如此匿名的讚譽。這場演出受到了熱烈歡迎。這是本季最好的作品之一，因其創新的系列和展示方式而聞名。

Also, we generated double the media impact of the brand's latest show. But it's not just about recognition, the show was a powerful testament to either [Ackerman's] ability to vote for into a modern and sophisticated interpretation of sensuality and elegance. And we are already starting to see customer interest in the collection. They see now by now piece, those already available in stores, being positively received as well as the full winter fall 2025 [say] campaign.

此外，我們也讓品牌最新時裝秀的媒體影響力增加了一倍。但這不僅關乎認可，這場秀還有力地證明了阿克曼對性感和優雅的現代而精緻的詮釋的能力。我們已經開始看到顧客對該系列的興趣。他們現在看到，那些已經在商店上架的產品受到了積極的歡迎，2025 年冬季秋季的整個活動也是如此。

Of course, this is just the first step, but we must sustain this momentum, and they know that the Tom Ford fashion team is fully focused on doing exactly that. It is also important to recognize that this show would not have been possible, at least not with such success, without the contribution of our unique villa.

當然，這只是第一步，但我們必須保持這種勢頭，他們知道湯姆福特時尚團隊正全力以赴地做到這一點。同樣重要的是要認識到，如果沒有我們獨特的別墅的貢獻，這場演出就不可能實現，至少不會取得如此大的成功。

Our integrated supply chain with artisans working chilly day and night in the lead up to the show to achieve such perfection in every piece. So bravo to all of them. Second, Thom Browne. The February show confirmed that we have already discussed about the brand journey. Thom Browne is always do for expertly crafted product and distinctive tailoring.

我們的綜合供應鏈與工匠們在展會前夕以繼日地工作，以確保每一件作品都達到完美的狀態。所以向他們所有人致敬。第二位，Thom Browne。二月份的展會證實我們已經討論過品牌之旅。Thom Browne 始終以精湛的工藝和獨特的剪裁而聞名。

This DNA has and always will be there. We bid on that to evolve the brand, and this is what the team is doing. We are enhancing newness while protecting the unique for (inaudible), improving the price architecture of the collection of the in-store offering for both men and women, with all these while the company focuses on embedding a strong retail culture. Last week, the brand opened its new store in Pal Beach, Florida and soon we'll open LA, California and New York, Madison Avenue, an important step in enhancing its footprint in the United States.

這種 DNA 一直存在，而且永遠都會存在。我們試圖透過這種方式來發展品牌，這就是團隊正在做的事情。我們正在增強新穎性，同時保護（聽不清楚）的獨特性，改善男女店內產品系列的價格架構，同時公司專注於植入強大的零售文化。上週，該品牌在佛羅裡達州帕爾海灘開設了新店，很快也將在加州洛杉磯和紐約麥迪遜大道開設新店，這是增強其在美國影響力的重要一步。

Let me also mention the February fashion show and the (inaudible) results, which confirmed that the brand collection has been highly appreciated by customers. And last but not least, the innovative show that Gucci did at the Grammy's. She performed with 20 dancer all dressed in Thom Browne, a further testament of the strength of our brand. Finally, on Zegna. The (inaudible) exclusive collection and the innovative advertising campaign we launched with [Mr. Auro Montanari] outperformed our expectation, attracting not only our existing customers, but also new ones.

我還要提一下二月份的時裝秀和（聽不清楚）結果，這證實了該品牌系列受到了顧客的高度讚賞。最後但同樣重要的是，Gucci 在葛萊美頒獎典禮上進行的創新表演。她與 20 名身著 Thom Browne 服裝的舞者一起表演，進一步證明了我們品牌的實力。最後，關於傑尼亞。我們與 [Mr. Auro Montanari 的表現超出了我們的預期，不僅吸引了現有客戶，還吸引了新客戶。

This is part of our future journey to engage both existing and potential customers with product of the highest quality and exclusivity, outstanding craftsmanship, and the unique heritage. In June, we will take all this to [Dubai], a market that continues to show impressive growth and appreciation of the Zegna brand.

這是我們未來旅程的一部分，旨在為現有和潛在客戶提供最高品質和獨特的產品、卓越的工藝和獨特的傳統。6 月份，我們將把這一切帶到杜拜，這個市場繼續展現出令人矚目的成長，對傑尼亞品牌的讚賞也越來越高。

To celebrate our special relationship with Dubai, Zegna we lost its first show outside Milan, alongside a weeklong experience, the third after Shanghai and New York. That also proves the strength of our personalization project.

為了慶祝我們與杜拜的特殊關係，傑尼亞取消了在米蘭以外的首場秀，同時舉辦了為期一周的體驗活動，這是繼上海和紐約之後的第三次。這也證明了我們的個人化專案的實力。

Let me also briefly touch on two important projects that reflects our commitment to excellence, to give them back and to the environment. We recently appointed the first 20 Maestri of our Accademia dei Maestri, an internal school dedicated to preserving the unique know-how we have developed across the entire luxury value chain. It is a significant project inspired by our founder, relentless pursuit of excellence and commitment to the made in Italy. In '25, we continue to work to make our group a more inclusive and diverse workplace. I'm particularly satisfied to say that some 50% of our managerial position are now covered by women.

我也想簡要地談談兩個重要項目，它們體現了我們對卓越、回饋員工和環境的承諾。我們最近任命了大師學院 (Accademia dei Maestri) 的首批 20 名大師，這是一所內部學校，致力於保存我們在整個奢侈品價值鏈中開發的獨特技術。這是一個重要的項目，其靈感來自於我們的創始人對卓越的不懈追求和對義大利製造的承諾。2025 年，我們將繼續努力使我們的團隊成為一個更具包容性和多元化的工作場所。我特別滿意的是，我們大約 50% 的管理職位現在由女性擔任。

Last for me, the most important, we continue to invest on traceable raw material across our brand. This project launched and the goals achieved are important, but for our group. Sustainability is much more than just this. Sustainability and caring for our communities are part of who we are and will continue to be so. Now let me take a moment to talk about '25 and our midterm targets.

最後，對我來說最重要的是，我們將繼續投資於我們品牌的可追溯原料。這個專案的啟動和實現的目標很重要，但對我們團隊來說。永續性遠不止於此。永續發展和關懷社區是我們本質的一部分，並將繼續如此。現在，請容許我花點時間談談 25 年和我們的中期目標。

First of all, let me provide some color on current trading. Since I know this will be your first question. The Q1 '25 trend still reflects a challenging environment in China. And in addition, we will continue to reduce the wholesale footprint across our brands in line with our strategy focused on DTC and customer centricity. This will continue to be a particular focus at Thom Browne especially in the first part of the year.

首先，讓我介紹一下當前的交易情況。因為我知道這是您的第一個問題。2025 年第一季的趨勢仍反映出中國經濟環境充滿挑戰。此外，我們將根據以 DTC 和客戶為中心的策略，繼續減少我們品牌的批發足跡。尤其是在今年上半年，這將繼續成為 Thom Browne 的重點。

In fact, we do expect the trend in Thom Browne hosted channel in Q1 of this year to be similar to Q1 '24. We also announced today an update of our mid-term targets. We expect to reach a revenue between EUR2.2 billion and EUR2.4 billion with an adjusted EBIT between EUR250 million and EUR300 million. These assumptions are based on a still cautious outlook for '25, with an expected low single-digit growth in revenue and adjusted EBIT.

事實上，我們確實預期今年第一季 Thom Browne 託管通路的趨勢將與 2024 年第一季相似。我們今天也宣布了中期目標的更新。我們預計營收將達到 22 億歐元至 24 億歐元之間，調整後的息稅前利潤將達到 2.5 億歐元至 3 億歐元之間。這些假設是基於對 25 年仍然謹慎的展望，預計收入和調整後息稅前利潤將出現低個位數成長。

Our assumption for this year factored in expectations that the current challenging environment in Greater China will persist, in particular in the first semester, also due to the negative trend in Hong Kong. We anticipate more sustained growth in 2027. As the steps we are currently taking across all three brands and our [Filiera] begin to yield results. and you have my full commitment that we are working to turn them into reality. Thank you and let me turn over to Gianluca.

我們對今年的假設考慮到，大中華區當前的挑戰性環境將持續下去，尤其是在第一學期，這也是由於香港的負面趨勢。我們預計 2027 年將實現更持續的成長。我們目前針對所有三個品牌和我們的 [Filiera] 採取的措施開始取得成果。我向你們保證，我們一定會努力將這些夢想變成現實。謝謝，現在請容許我把麥克風交給 Gianluca。

Thank you, Gildo. Let's move to page 10 of the presentation where we will find full year '24 results key highlights. The revenues for this year were already disclosed at the end of January, and we confirm them at EUR1.947 billion, up 2% year-on-year driven by Zegna brand organic growth. In '24, the group reached 67% gross margin and adjusted EBIT of [EUR184 million] and the profit of EUR91 million. Let's move to the following page to comment more on these results.

謝謝你，吉爾多。讓我們翻到簡報的第 10 頁，我們將在其中找到 24 年全年業績的關鍵亮點。今年的營收已於 1 月底披露，我們確認為 19.47 億歐元，年增 2%，這得益於傑尼亞品牌的有機成長。24年，該集團毛利率達到67%，調整後息稅前利潤達1.84億歐元，利潤達9,100萬歐元。讓我們轉到下一頁來對這些結果進行更多評論。

On page 11, starting with gross profit. In full year '24, gross profit rose by 230 basis points to EUR1.297 billion, with a margin of 66.6%. This 230 basis points improvement from last year has been driven mostly by two factors. First, channel mix more skewed towards DTC as the major driver of this improvement in '24 DTC revenues reached 78% of the three combined brand revenues versus 73% last year. And as you know, DTC gross margin carries a higher margin than the wholesale one.

第 11 頁，從毛利開始。24年全年毛利成長230個基點，達到12.97億歐元，利潤率為66.6%。與去年相比，這 230 個基點的改善主要受兩個因素推動。首先，通路組合更偏向 DTC，這是 2024 年這一成長的主要驅動力，DTC 收入佔三個品牌總收入的 78%，而去年這一比例為 73%。如您所知，DTC 毛利率高於批發毛利率。

Second factor, a better inventory management, which we will see also in the trade working capital base. Let me also remind you that in full year '24, cost of sales will include almost EUR4 million of downforce fashion PPA-related charges, purchase price allocation. These charges were instead EUR15.6 million in full year '23. The 2024 amount is the last tranche of PPA-related charges from the acquisition of the remaining 85% of TFI, that is the company that signed a 20-plus 10-year license agreement for the Tom Ford Fashion business.

第二個因素是更好的庫存管理，我們也將在貿易營運資金基礎中看到這一點。我還要提醒您，24 年全年銷售成本將包括近 400 萬歐元的下壓力時尚 PPA 相關費用和購買價格分配。23 年全年這些費用為 1560 萬歐元。2024 年的金額是收購 TFI 剩餘 85% 股份所產生的最後一筆 PPA 相關費用，TFI 是與 Tom Ford Fashion 業務簽署了 20 多年 10 年許可協議的公司。

Moving from SG&A. SG&A in full year '24 reached EUR1.008 billion with a 51.8% incidence of revenues compared to 47.3% in full year 2023. The increase in SG&A incidence on revenues is linked to three lifers. First, the investments in talent and organization across different functions, we reinforced all the three brands, even it is important to highlight that the investments made at Tom Ford Fashion represents the vast majority of the increase of SG&A in absolute terms versus 2023, also related to the fact that this year, we had 12 months, while in '23, we had eight months of Tom Ford fashion.

從銷售、一般及行政費用 (SG&A) 轉移。2024 年全年銷售、一般及行政費用達 10.08 億歐元，佔營收的 51.8%，而 2023 年全年為 47.3%。銷售、一般及行政費用對收入的影響增加與三項終身開支有關。首先，我們對不同職能領域的人才和組織進行了投資，增強了這三個品牌的實力，值得強調的是，對 Tom Ford Fashion 的投資佔了 2023 年 SG&A 絕對值增長的絕大部分，這也與今年我們有 12 個月，而 23 年我們有 8 個月的 Tom Ford 時尚有關。

The second factor. The expansion of the store network, including also the conversion of the [brand stores] to DCC for both (inaudible) and Thom Browne. Clearly, when we launch a new store, (inaudible) conversion or some ramp-up time is needed before reaching maturity. Third factor and negative operating leverage, in particular at Thom Browne since we decided to streamline the wholesale business, which I remind declined by 33% versus prior year in organic terms.

第二個因素。門市網路的擴張，包括將 (聽不清楚) 和 Thom Browne 的 [品牌商店] 轉變為 DCC。顯然，當我們開設一家新店時，需要（聽不清楚）轉換或一些加速時間才能達到成熟。第三個因素是負的經營槓桿，特別是 Thom Browne，因為我們決定精簡批發業務，我記得批發業務與去年相比有機下降了 33%。

Moving to marketing expenses. In 2014, we continue to invest on our brands. Marketing expenses were EUR121 million, equal to 6.2% of revenues slightly above the EUR115 million mark achieved in '23, which at the time was 6.0% of revenues. And this is in line with our indication of a fair mixer marketing revenues incidents of around 6%.

轉向行銷費用。2014年，我們繼續對我們的品牌進行投資。行銷費用為 1.21 億歐元，相當於收入的 6.2%，略高於 1923 年實現的 1.15 億歐元，當時佔收入的 6.0%。這與我們預測的公平混合器行銷收入事件約為 6% 一致。

As already anticipated in the call related to H1 results, in 2024, we experienced a different timing of spending in marketing, fully related to the different concentration of events across the year, which has been more intense in H1 '24 compared to H2. Let's now move to Page 12 of the presentation where we report the adjusted EBIT for the group and by segment. As always, this is the main performance metric used by the management to analyze the performance of the business at group and segment level, and you can find all the reconciliations in the appendix of this presentation.

正如在與上半年業績相關的電話會議中所預測的那樣，2024 年，我們在行銷方面的支出時機有所不同，這完全與全年活動集中度的不同有關，2024 年上半年的活動強度比下半年更大。現在讓我們轉到簡報的第 12 頁，其中我們報告了集團和分部的調整後息稅前利潤。像往常一樣，這是管理層用來分析集團和部門層級業務績效的主要績效指標，您可以在本簡報的附錄中找到所有對帳。

In full year '24, our adjusted EBITDA reached EUR184 million compared to EUR220 million in 2023. As Gildo commented, these results reflect largely the challenging sector environment, especially and the decision to streamline the wholesale business and some brand but reflects also the efforts that have been made to improve costs and postpone some projects that are -- that have not been considered a priority. This effort is continuing also in 2025. Recently, we have taken, for instance, some important decisions as it regards to our (inaudible), we are reorganizing the activities of the fabric crafting by concentrating them from the current two facilities into just one site. And we are still working on other fronts of optimization at 360 degrees across the group.

2024 年全年，我們的調整後 EBITDA 達到 1.84 億歐元，而 2023 年為 2.2 億歐元。正如吉爾多所評論的那樣，這些結果在很大程度上反映了充滿挑戰的行業環境，特別是精簡批發業務和一些品牌的決定，但也反映了為改善成本和推遲一些尚未被視為優先事項的項目所做的努力。2025年，我們仍將繼續努力。例如，最近，我們就（聽不清楚）做出了一些重要決定，我們正在重組織物製作活動，將其從目前的兩個設施集中到一個地點。我們仍在全集團範圍內對其他方面進行全方位的優化。

In particular, last year, Thom Browne segment has been the most penalized in terms of adjusted EBIT performance, having recorded the strongest reduction in revenues, minus 21% organic versus 2023, which in '24 has been only partially mitigated by cost control functions.

尤其是去年，Thom Browne 部門在調整後息稅前利潤表現方面受到的打擊最為嚴重，收入下降最為明顯，與 2023 年相比有機下降了 21%，而 2024 年這一影響僅透過成本控制功能得到部分緩解。

Tom Ford Fashion segment reported a loss at EBIT adjusted level in line with our expectations and also in line with the results that we reported in H1. Actually, the adjusted EBIT of Tom Ford Fashion in the second half of 2024 came in slightly above breakeven. The full year adjusted EBIT performance of Tom Ford Fashion reflects the cost to build the platform to support the long-term growth of this business going from design to merchandising, from IT systems to regional leaders and so on. Last (inaudible) segment that, as you know, includes (inaudible) division and third-party brands.

Tom Ford 時尚部門報告的息稅前利潤調整後虧損符合我們的預期，也與我們上半年報告的業績一致。實際上，Tom Ford Fashion 在 2024 年下半年的調整後息稅前利潤略高於損益兩平點。Tom Ford Fashion 全年調整後的息稅前利潤表現反映了建造平台的成本，該平台旨在支持該業務從設計到銷售、從 IT 系統到區域領導等的長期成長。最後（聽不清楚）部分，如您所知，包括（聽不清楚）部門和第三方品牌。

This segment generated an adjusted EBIT slightly up of 14%, 70 bps below 2023. This performance reflects our decision to keep on pursuing strategic projects that are important for the long term of the brand in a market that over the year has become more challenging, especially in GCR. I have to say that on the other side, the team has been responsive on working on cost control and containment actions. On the positive side, corporate costs, including the intersegment (inaudible) decrease to EUR21 million compared to EUR30 million in 2023, mostly lower cost for short-term and long-term renewals.

該部門的調整後息稅前利潤略有增加 14%，比 2023 年低 70 個基點。這一業績體現了我們繼續推行對品牌長期發展至關重要的策略項目的決心，尤其是在大中華區，這一市場在過去一年中變得越來越具有挑戰性。我不得不說，另一方面，該團隊在成本控制和遏制行動方面做出了積極回應。正面的一面是，包括部門間成本（聽不清楚）在內的企業成本從 2023 年的 3,000 萬歐元下降至 2,100 萬歐元，主要是短期和長期續約成本降低。

Moving to page 13, you can see here summarize our reported income statement. Let me make here one comment on taxes. As you see effective tax rate moved to 30%, a more normalized level compared to 20% of prior year, which was mainly a result of high nontaxable income. As a result of the above, we reported group profit in 2024 at EUR19.9 million. I can also here anticipate that based on the 2024 results, and acknowledging that in any year, the dividend per share should be at least simple to that of the prior year, the Board of Directors proposed a dividend distribution of EUR0.12 per ordinary share which equals to a total dividend distribution of roughly [EUR13 million].

翻到第 13 頁，您可以在這裡看到我們報告的損益表摘要。讓我在這裡就稅收發表一點評論。如您所見，有效稅率升至 30%，與去年的 20% 相比，這是一個更正常的水平，這主要是由於免稅收入較高。綜合上述因素，我們報告 2024 年集團利潤為 1990 萬歐元。我還可以在此預測，基於 2024 年的業績，並承認在任何一年，每股股息都應至少與上一年的股息持平，董事會提議每股普通股派發 0.12 歐元的股息，相當於總股息分配約為[1300萬歐元]。

Let me move now to Page 14, where we comment CaPeX. (technical difficulty) is going to be another important year in terms of CapEx not only on the distribution side, but it still also in production where we retain at completing the new factory by '26. And for this reason, we expect CapEx for 2025 to be between 6% and 7% also this year.

現在讓我轉到第 14 頁，我們在該頁評論 CaPeX。 (技術難度) 將是資本支出方面又一個重要的一年，不僅在分銷方面，而且在生產方面，我們仍計劃在 26 年之前完成新工廠的建設。因此，我們預計 2025 年的資本支出也將在 6% 至 7% 之間。

Trade working capital reached (inaudible) at the end of December '24 which is 23.6% of revenues compared to EUR449 million at the end of 2023. Here, we outlined the solid inventory management, we (inaudible) versus prior year. Looking at free cash flow, let me highlight on Page 15 that the group generated EUR 10 million of free cash flow positive despite the already mentioned (inaudible) CapEx paid [EUR 126 million].

24 年 12 月底，貿易營運資本達到（聽不清楚），佔營收的 23.6%，而 2023 年底為 4.49 億歐元。在這裡，我們概述了穩健的庫存管理，與去年相比（聽不清楚）。看看自由現金流，讓我在第 15 頁強調一下，儘管已經提到（聽不清楚）支付了資本支出，但該集團仍然產生了 1000 萬歐元的自由現金流[1.26億歐元]。

No major comments is that on Page 16. (technical difficulty) I will finish here my presentation to leave space to your question.

沒有主要評論在第 16 頁。（技術難題）我的演講就到此結束，以便留出空間回答您的問題。

Thank you, Gianluca. Thank you, Gildo. And please operator, can you open up to the first question from the audience?

謝謝你，詹盧卡。謝謝你，吉爾多。接線生，您能回答觀眾的第一個問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Chris Huang, UBS.

瑞銀的 Chris Huang。

Hello. Hi, congratulations on the results. It's from Chris from UBS, and I have three questions please.

你好。你好，恭喜你取得成果。我是瑞銀的克里斯，我有三個問題。

Firstly, on latest trends in Q1. Thanks for the color on China, but can you also share some details on how trends have so far shaped up in the US, given there's some increasing concerns around the American consumer slowing down?

首先，關於第一季的最新趨勢。感謝您對中國局勢的分析，但鑑於人們對美國消費放緩的擔憂日益加劇，您能否分享一些迄今為止美國趨勢如何發展的細節？

My second question is on Zegna's [EBIT] margin, which is very nice to see coming ahead of expectations. I presume this is reflective of the accelerating DTC growth into the second half of the year. But can you share some thoughts on margins going forward. And how much confidence do you have in delivering and constantly improving margins for Zegna segment both sequentially but also year over year?

我的第二個問題是關於傑尼亞的息稅前利潤率，很高興看到其利潤率超出預期。我認為這反映了今年下半年 DTC 成長的加速。但您能否分享一些關於未來利潤的想法？您對 Zegna 部門實現並持續提高利潤率（無論是連續的還是逐年的）有多大信心？

Lastly, on Thom Browne, if I remember correctly, you are currently adjusting the product as former of the brand. Can you share some updates on that front and when we could expect the refresh product portfolio? Thank you so much.

最後，關於Thom Browne，如果我沒有記錯的話，你們目前正在調整品牌前身的產品。您能否分享這方面的一些最新動態以及我們何時可以期待更新的產品組合？太感謝了。

Thank you, Chris, for the three very interesting questions. So the first one on colors apart from China in the first quarter on specifically on the US, I leave it to our CEO and then maybe Gianluca for the EBIT.

謝謝克里斯提出的三個非常有趣的問題。因此，除了第一季中國以外，關於顏色，特別是美國，我將其留給我們的首席執行官，然後也許是 Gianluca 來負責息稅前利潤。

Chris, I was in the states a few weeks ago and I must say that I was impressed by the resilience. That I saw, so we keep doing well. And both for Zegna and Tom Ford, it means we have a good traction and so, we are uncertain what the tariff might bring, but we are prepared to face the challenges. And I think that our customer base is overall resilient for whatever it happened. And I think it's it's across the country, I mean it's quite interesting.

克里斯，幾週前我去過美國，我必須說，他們的韌性給我留下了深刻的印象。我看到了這一點，所以我們繼續做得很好。對傑尼亞和湯姆福特來說，這意味著我們擁有良好的發展勢頭，因此，我們不確定關稅會帶來什麼，但我們已準備好迎接挑戰。我認為，無論發生什麼，我們的客戶群總體上都是有韌性的。我認為這是在全國範圍內發生的，這很有趣。

So we still have a positive mind on the United States market. Slightly different in Canada, I must say there is a little bit a different attitude. And I must add that you never asked about Latin America. Latin America we are pretty satisfied on how last year ended and how it got started. And different is from if you cover Greater China, I must say that the whole situation is quite challenging, and we see a similar trend (technical difficulty)

所以我們對美國市場還是持樂觀態度的。加拿大的情況略有不同，我必須說那裡的態度有點不同。我必須補充一點，你從來沒有問過有關拉丁美洲的問題。在拉丁美洲，我們對去年的結束和開始感到非常滿意。不同的是，如果你關注大中華區，我必須說，整個情況相當具有挑戰性，我們看到了類似的趨勢（技術難度）

I think that this point is a negative, trend for the overall region by '25. To give you some more color on the rest of the world, (technical difficulty)

我認為這一點對於 25 年整個地區來說是一個負面趨勢。為了讓你們更了解世界其他地方，（技術難度）

Hello, sorry to interrupt. I think the line is quite bad. We can't really hear.

您好，抱歉打擾了。我認為這條線路很糟糕。我們確實聽不見。

You don't hear it?

你沒聽見嗎？

At least me, I cannot hear very well.

至少我聽不太清楚。

Shall I repeat?

我要重複一遍嗎？

Yes, clear, now it is better. Maybe if you can kindly repeat the comments on on Hong Kong and Europe, please? Thank you so much.

是的，清楚了，現在好多了。您能否重複一下關於香港和歐洲的評論？太感謝了。

On Europe, Hong Kong were very challenging, in particular this first quarter. The rest of China, I think the same picture as the Q4. And I think overall Greater China will be negative in '25. Europe, still good. Extremely well, the Emirates in particular, Dubai. And so I think that if we put together Europe, United States, and the Emirates, there are no signs of deterioration, and we remain on a positive for the rest of the year.

在歐洲，香港面臨很大的挑戰，尤其是第一季。我認為中國其他地區的情況與第四季相同。我認為 2025 年大中華區整體經濟將呈現負成長。歐洲，還是不錯的。非常好，尤其是阿聯酋、杜拜。因此，我認為，如果我們把歐洲、美國和阿聯酋放在一起，就不會出現惡化的跡象，而且今年剩餘時間我們仍將保持積極態勢。

Okay, it's -- was it okay, Chris, did you hear the answer?

好的，是的——可以嗎，克里斯，你聽到答案了嗎？

Thank you. Yes.

謝謝。是的。

And I leave it to Luca to comment on and then maybe I go back to Gildo for the Thom Browne question. Yeah.

我讓 Luca 對此作出評論，然後我可能會再回頭問 Gildo 有關 Thom Browne 的問題。是的。

I heard your question about EBIT also related to the growth. So I take it from I start from the evolution of how we see channels through the year and by land at the end with the EBIT. So we declared a low single digit growth expected in EBIT for this year. And the context needs to be read through the evolution of geography as Gildo said by channel and also by brand. So by channel, we see definitely [DTC] as the engine of growth.

我聽說您關於息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 的問題也與成長有關。因此，我從我們如何看待全年通路的演變開始，並最終透過息稅前利潤 (EBIT) 來看待它。因此，我們宣布今年的息稅前利潤預計將實現低個位數成長。正如吉爾多所說，需要透過管道和品牌的地理演變來解讀背景。因此，從通路來看，我們肯定將 [DTC] 視為成長引擎。

We are expecting that if recommended the DTC weight on branded revenues moved from 73 to 78 and this year we have. In front of us, the goal of landing around 80% of DTC with Zegna brand moving very close to 90% at this point. So that is one driver of our evolution. We have a different velocity that we are expecting here by brand with Zegna in comfort for fashion above the average, Thom Browne.

我們預計，如果建議的話，DTC 對品牌收入的權重將從 73 升至 78，今年我們確實做到了。我們的目標是實現約 80% 的 DTC，而傑尼亞品牌目前已接近 90%。這是我們進化的一個驅動力。我們期待與 Zegna 等品牌在舒適度和時尚性方面均高於平均水平的品牌 Thom Browne 有不同速度。

And also, textiles for the size that is textiles are still below the average. So around, we are expecting the Q1 decline of whole that not to be a representative of the full year. But still we are expecting the whole sale to Brown in the double digit down and that would be the one driver of setting the scene for our EBIT low single digit growth.

而且，紡織品的尺寸仍然低於平均水平。因此，我們預期第一季的整體下滑幅度將不能代表全年的下滑幅度。但我們仍然預期布朗的整個銷售額將出現兩位數的下降，這將是我們息稅前利潤低個位數成長的驅動因素。

As it refers, I think you were asking also Zegna brand. In the second half of this year, then your brand recorded the 15% of the EBIT margin. We have to remind them that 15%, it is a consequence also of the time shift of some marketing expenses. So if we look at the full year, it was 13.9%, which is more representative.

正如它所指的，我認為你也在問傑尼亞品牌。今年下半年，您的品牌錄得15%的息稅前利潤率。我們必須提醒他們，15%也是一些行銷費用時間轉移的結果。因此，如果我們看全年，這個數字是13.9%，這更具代表性。

2025 for everybody, but also for Zegna, it's still a year of investment in CRM, in marketing, in training store, in the factories of Pharma, in personalization, in the quality department. So it's a year where we are -- we have decided to keep on making the investments, and we are expecting to see the full results after 2025 on the Zegna brand. Adding in mind that our -- when we declared the 15% adjusted EBIT margin, that is at least the number where Zegna should lend definitely not this year but going forward.

2025 年對每個人來說都是如此，但對傑尼亞來說，這仍然是在 CRM、行銷、培訓店、製藥工廠、個人化、品質部門進行投資的一年。所以，今年我們決定繼續投資，並期望在 2025 年後看到傑尼亞品牌的全部成果。還要記住的是，當我們宣布 15% 的調整後息稅前利潤率時，這至少是傑尼亞應該借出的金額，肯定不是今年，而是未來。

Perfect. I don't know if it was clear, Chris, and the line was working. I leave it now on Thom Browne and the product assortment evolution to our CEO, Gildo.

完美的。我不知道這是否清楚，克里斯，而且線路正常。現在我將有關 Thom Browne 和產品組合演變的問題交給我們的執行長 Gildo。

I think that we have seen a significant improvement in product evolution. I am a consumer, a potential consumer of every brand. And I can judge by myself. And I must say with the '24 was a rather classical approach. I think, I mean, has moved ahead and taken a bolder but still commercial approach to how he wants his product to look sure in the showroom and now he's transferred in the store. So I think that we see this -- they start happening in the assor in the store for summer '25. But it will be even stronger for for winter '25, both in men's and women.

我認為我們已經看到產品演變的顯著進步。我是消費者，也是每個品牌的潛在消費者。我可以自己判斷。我必須說，『24』 是一種相當經典的方法。我認為，我的意思是，他已經向前邁進了一步，採取了更大膽但仍然具有商業性的方式來確定他的產品在陳列室中的外觀，現在他已經將其轉移到商店中。所以我認為我們看到了這一點——它們在 2025 年夏季開始在商店的 assor 中發生。但 2025 年冬季，無論男裝還是女裝，這種勢頭都會更加強勁。

And I think the show really did highlight this transformation for a more theatrical, very creative show to a more realistic shows that you like to see what has shown in the store -- a lot of (inaudible) both men and women. So I think we will see some traction in particular for the -- for winter season. In terms of market, I started with the strong one.

我認為這場演出確實突出了這種轉變，從一場更戲劇性、非常有創意的演出轉變為更現實的演出，你喜歡看到商店裡展示的東西——很多（聽不清楚）男人和女人。所以我認為我們會看到一些牽引力，特別是在冬天。在市場方面，我從強勢市場開始。

Japan is super strong. I think that regardless of the Chinese, whether they traveled to Japan or not, I mean, Thom Browne remains a brand for the locals. So we are doing extremely well with the local and the Chinese government, we should show them. Korea, we are doing fine. And so these are the two markets that give us through satisfaction '24 and keep doing well for '25. China, some small signs, positive sign. I think we touched probably the bottom last year, and I think we see some positive traction. I think that it has to do also with the support of assorment in which we made a step, I mean, from what they call the classic, the typical (inaudible) into a more fashion, but still commercial and distinctive items.

日本超強大。我認為，無論中國人是否去過日本，Thom Browne 仍然是當地人的品牌。因此，我們與當地政府和中國政府的合作非常好，我們應該向他們展示。韓國，我們做得很好。因此，這兩個市場讓我們在 24 年感到滿意，並在 25 年繼續表現良好。中國，有一些小跡象，積極的跡象。我認為我們去年可能已經觸底，我認為我們看到了一些積極的進展。我認為這也與我們在分類支援方面邁出了一步，我的意思是，從他們所謂的經典、典型（聽不清楚）轉向更時尚但仍然具有商業性和獨特性的商品。

I think that our inroads in the states is important. I mean, what I've indicated is opening more doors. It means that we do believe in the United States market also for Thom Browne. And in particular, Thom wants to strengthen his position there. And so I think that we should see some improvement there as well. So and then, I think that a push to retaining in a moment in which, we've been working to reduce those both in '24 and also in '25.

我認為我們在美國的進展很重要。我的意思是，我所表明的是打開更多的大門。這意味著我們也相信 Thom Browne 在美國市場有發展空間。尤其是湯姆想要鞏固他在那裡的地位。所以我認為我們也應該看到一些改善。因此，我認為，我們一直在努力在 24 年和 25 年減少這些影響。

Thank you. Chris, if you don't have follow up, I can go to the second set of questions?

謝謝。克里斯，如果您沒有後續問題，我可以問第二組問題嗎？

All clear. Thank you.

一切正常。謝謝。

Thank you, Chris. Operator, you can take the second.

謝謝你，克里斯。接線員，您可以搭乘第二班。

Adrien Duverger, Goldman Sachs.

阿德里安·杜維爾格，高盛。

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my questions. So the first one would be if you can comment a bit more on the guidance, maybe where do you see the growth opportunity, in China, and if you can detail that for, the different brands? I know you already commented, that you expect negative trends for the region in '25, but maybe if you can comment on your expectation a bit further from this?

嘿，下午好。非常感謝您回答我的問題。因此，第一個問題是，您是否可以對該指引進行更多評論，也許您認為中國的成長機會在哪裡，以及您是否可以針對不同的品牌進行詳細說明？我知道您已經評論過，您預計 25 年該地區將出現負面趨勢，但您是否可以就此進一步評論一下您的預期？

And then the second question would be on Tom Ford fashion, how is the integration progressing compared to your expectations and what scope do you see for continued DTC expansion? And the third question, if I may, on the channel mix. So the group has materially lowered the exposure to the wholesale channel. Do you expect the rationalization activity to now be largely complete? If I understood correctly, you still expect a double digit down the wholesale for Thom Browne next year, what about the other brands?

第二個問題是關於湯姆福特時尚，與您的預期相比，整合進展如何？您認為 DTC 繼續擴張的範圍有多大？如果可以的話，第三個問題是關於渠道組合的。因此該集團已大幅降低了對批發通路的曝光。您是否認為合理化活動現在已基本完成？如果我理解正確的話，您仍然預計明年 Thom Browne 的批發價會下降兩位數，那麼其他品牌呢？

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Okay, so I have the first question is on the 2027 target guidance, and was asking about the opportunities, implied in the guidance, particularly looking at China if I understood correct. I might leave a Gildo to make some comments and then I don't know if you wants to have the --

好的，我的第一個問題是關於 2027 年目標指導，並且詢問指導中暗示的機會，特別是關注中國，如果我理解正確的話。我可能會留下 Gildo 來發表一些評論，然後我不知道你是否想--

China (technical difficulty)

中國（技術難度）

Sorry for interrupting. This is the operator here. We are experiencing some audio issues from the management team's line. Please stand by while we attempt to resolve the issue.

抱歉打擾了。這是這裡的操作員。我們的管理團隊線路出現了一些音訊問題。請稍候，我們將嘗試解決該問題。

Okay, sorry about the problem. Now on China looking to '27, but we still remain positive on China. I think that luxury is related to China and vice versa. So I think that China will be back. It's hard to manifest when it will be back, but there could be some sign of improvement in the second half. That's why I was there a few weeks ago, and that's what I see. We don't see any concrete things yet, but we remain positive. There might be some review, on our network possibly in going forward. But overall, we remain confident that our strategy is working well over there.

好的，很抱歉出現此問題。現在展望2027年中國的情況，我們仍然對中國持樂觀態度。我認為奢侈品與中國有關，反之亦然。所以我認為中國將會回歸。很難預測何時會恢復，但下半年可能會出現一些改善的跡象。這就是我幾週前去那裡的原因，這就是我所看到的。我們還沒有看到任何具體的事情，但我們仍然保持樂觀。我們未來可能會對我們的網路進行一些審查。但總體而言，我們仍然相信我們的策略在那裡行之有效。

The personalization I think it's going to be important in China as much as it is in the United States. And I think we are working a lot on the training side. I think that if we have to favor something today is working on our people to make sure that our local people that they understand they are able to attract new customers with a new strategy.

我認為個人化在中國和美國都同樣重要。我認為我們在培訓方面做了很多工作。我認為，如果我們今天必須支持某件事，那就是努力讓我們的當地人民了解他們能夠用新策略吸引新客戶。

And working in with several in-store events in order to create one-to-one relationship with customers to explain them where the brand is going and what is the innovation factor with the brand. And also by inviting them to our experiences around the world. I mean, next one, as will be Dubai, so surely we'll make sure that some top customer of China will be there too. So overall, a positive mind, but I think it's going to be a gradual movement.

並與多家店內活動合作，與顧客建立一對一的關係，向他們解釋品牌的發展方向以及品牌的創新因素。並邀請他們參與我們在世界各地的體驗。我的意思是，下一屆展會將在杜拜舉行，所以我們肯定會確保中國的一些頂級客戶也會出席。所以總的來說，心態是積極的，但我認為這將是一個漸進的過程。

Just add one point, I think within the softness of China, an important leading indicator that we continuously monitor is the growth of the ice spenders which we got as about 50,000 per year. I think on that part, on that cluster of clients, we are growing also in China. So of course, China is suffering from traffic. But our focused effort on the individuals is gaining traction also there. Second question was on the integration, how it is progressive --

再補充一點，我認為在中國經濟疲軟的背景下，我們持續監測的一個重要領先指標是冰毒消費人數的成長，我們得到的數據顯示每年約有 5 萬人。我認為就這方面而言，就客戶群而言，我們在中國也正在成長。因此，中國當然面臨交通擁擠的問題。但我們針對個人的努力也正在獲得支持。第二個問題是關於整合，它是如何進步的--

I think it's progressing fairly well. And I think we see the reaction not only by the price by all the stakeholder, and I'm referring to the final customer of the wholesale. They're quite promising. I think that we were bold enough to create -- what we call a drop of by now we're now, I mean from some item out of the show to have them in the top-six stores around the world, the day after the show. And I think with by inviting (inaudible) a top spender, I think they really appreciate, what they could pick ahead of time.

我認為進展相當順利。我認為我們看到的不僅是所有利害關係人對價格的反應，我指的是批發的最終客戶。他們很有前途。我認為我們有足夠的勇氣去創造——我們現在所說的「drop of」——我的意思是從展會中的一些商品中抽取一些，在展會結束後的第二天，將它們放在世界各地的六大商店中。我認為透過邀請（聽不清楚）最高消費族群，他們會真正欣賞自己可以事先選擇的東西。

Then we had the week after the show, we had the collections, in the showroom and we had a good reaction by the by the wholesaler. And I must say that our wholesale numbers are higher than the one of the previous season. Social media, in general and media, I mean, around the world has been very receptive to the show.

展會結束後的一周，我們在展廳裡展示了我們的系列產品，批發商也給出了良好的反響。我必須說，我們的批發數量比上一季更高。總的來說，社群媒體和媒體，我的意思是，世界各地的媒體都對這部劇非常感興趣。

So I can only tell positive. So we are working on the next show and to make sure that we have the right item in the stores because we have not completed our distribution expansion. I think we have enough store to make justice to the validity of the line that has met the expectation both in men's and women. This is important things.

所以我只能說積極的。因此，我們正在籌備下一場演出，並確保商店中有合適的商品，因為我們尚未完成分銷擴張。我認為我們有足夠的儲備來證明該系列產品的有效性，它滿足了男性和女性的期望。這是重要的事情。

Until now, Tom Ford fashion has been more a men's line than a women's line. I think that this show, I mean, has been able to rebalance the equation, and I think that in the show, we saw some new highlights. And so I think that we are coming out with more icon pieces, that the customer wishes to have together with the also their personalized approach to the product to the service which is very much in style and attitude.

到目前為止，湯姆福特 (Tom Ford) 時裝更多的是男裝系列，而不是女裝系列。我認為這個節目已經能夠重新平衡這個等式，而且我認為我們在節目中看到了一些新的亮點。因此，我認為我們將推出更多標誌性產品，滿足客戶的需求，同時也能提供個人化的產品和服務，體現出他們的風格和態度。

Perfect, sir. The third -- if there is no follow up, the third question is on the rationalization of the channel mix, asking if it is fairly completed overall and clearly by brand. That was the question.

非常好，先生。第三個——如果沒有後續行動，第三個問題是關於管道組合合理化，詢問它是否總體上已經相當完成並且按品牌明確劃分。這就是問題所在。

I confirm what we said before on the Thom Browne side we still see a double digit decline on also, and at that point we should be more on a steady state. And we also see (inaudible) decline of wholesale. On Zegna, it is driven by two factors. One is the conversions that we have activated through 2024, mainly in Canada but also selectively in the US.

我確認我們之前在 Thom Browne 方面所說的，我們仍然看到兩位數的下滑，到那時我們應該會處於更穩定的狀態。我們也看到（聽不清楚）批發業務的下滑。對傑尼亞來說，這受到兩個因素的推動。一是到 2024 年我們已經啟動的轉換，主要在加拿大，但也有選擇地在美國。

And a second factor, we have been investing heavily in our icons, so the ripple stitch is the most visible. But there are others. And we are starting to activate a more selective -- more and more selective distribution of our icons within a action icon protection program in our wholesale. So that is a second driver of strengthening DTC by applying a selective distribution on icons on (inaudible)

第二個因素是，我們一直在大力投資我們的圖標，因此波紋針腳是最顯眼的。但還有其他的。我們開始在批發業務中的行動圖標保護計劃中啟動更有選擇性的——越來越有選擇性地分發我們的圖標。因此，這是透過在圖標上應用選擇性分佈來加強 DTC 的第二個驅動力（聽不清楚）

On Tom Ford, the effect is conversions again, the decline of Tom Ford, which we are expecting for this year. We have converted [Arabs] men, we have converted socks in New York, so there is a carryover effect of some conversions also on comfort. So yes, we are expecting the three brands to strength their distribution on all sale for different reasons, but this will be a factor for 2025.

對於 Tom Ford 來說，其影響再次是轉變，Tom Ford 的衰落，這是我們今年預料到的。我們已經改造了阿拉伯男性，我們在紐約改造了襪子，因此一些改造也對舒適度產生了延續效應。所以是的，我們預計這三個品牌會因為不同的原因加強其在所有銷售中的分銷，但這將是 2025 年的一個因素。

Thank you. Thank you very much. I don't know if you are okay, we move to the third one.

謝謝。非常感謝。我不知道你是否還好，我們進入第三個。

Yes, thank you very much.

是的，非常感謝。

Okay, Operator.

好的，接線生。

Oliver Chen, TD Cowen.

奧利弗·陳（Oliver Chen），TD Cowen。

Hi, Gildo and Gianluc, great job on the Tom Ford fashion show. As we look at the model this year, streets looking for about 4% revenue growth. I was curious if that's achievable and 60 basis points of margin expansion. As you think about the brands, will be in the 5% to 6% growth range, and will the other brands be slightly positive? Just would love any general parameters around growth rates by brand acknowledging that there's a lot of volatility in China's been more challenging?

嗨，Gildo 和 Gianluc，你們在湯姆福特時裝秀上表現得很好。從今年的模型來看，街道尋求的收入成長約為 4%。我很好奇這是否可以實現以及利潤率是否擴大 60 個基點。您認為這些品牌的成長幅度會在 5% 到 6% 之間，其他品牌的成長幅度會略有正成長嗎？只是想了解品牌成長率方面的任何一般參數，承認中國市場存在很大的波動性，這是否更具挑戰性？

And then as we model year 2027 guidance as well longer term, what should the complexion be of the revenue growth rate in the years ahead? Just general parameters would be helpful as we think about that. Finally, diving into the Zegna brand with the growth rate, how do you think that will evolve pricing relative to transactions as we model ahead? Thank you.

然後，隨著我們對 2027 年指導模型以及長期預測的不斷深入，未來幾年的收入成長率該如何？當我們考慮這一點時，一般參數就會有所幫助。最後，深入研究傑尼亞品牌的成長率，您認為在我們建立未來模式時，相對於交易的定價將如何變化？謝謝。

Okay, perfect. Thank you. I think they're all questions for Gianluca. So the first one if I understood well, was a little bit of color on 2025 evolution. Clearly, we cannot be too precise, so it will be a very high color and then I'll leave it to Gianluca?

好的，完美。謝謝。我認為這些都是針對詹盧卡 (Gianluca) 的問題。因此，如果我理解得沒錯的話，第一個是關於 2025 年演變的一些細節。顯然，我們不能太精確，所以它會是一種非常高的顏色，然後我會把它留給 Gianluca？

I try to put together some content that can help you model, but we cannot be too specific. So we -- on one side, we have the three brands on wholesale down. We have said that Zegna and Tom Ford, despite the decline of wholesale as a brand. Overall, they are growing more than the average. So we expect to have both Zegna DTC and Tom Ford as being the driver of our growth. For Zegna is -- it's mostly on com basis. For Tom Ford, it's a combination of calm and uncomm.

我嘗試整理一些能夠幫助你建模的內容，但我們不能太具體。因此，一方面，我們有三個批發品牌。我們說過，儘管 Zegna 和 Tom Ford 作為一個品牌的批發業務正在衰落。總體而言，它們的增長速度高於平均水平。因此，我們希望 Zegna DTC 和 Tom Ford 能夠成為我們成長的動力。對 Zegna 來說 — — 它主要基於商業。對湯姆福特來說，這是冷靜與不尋常的結合。

This is for 2025. On Thom Browne, we have said that the double digit decline on the wholesale. And on Thom Browne, the growth on DTC will come mostly or we are -- in our low single digit growth, we bake in the growth coming mostly from space. As you was mentioning, there are several openings coming this year. We have the anniversary of openings that took place last year, also the takeover of some locations in Canada or [Toronto] for instance. So the driver of growth is coming from DTC. And we said DTC is expected to land overall at 80%. I think these are the connecting dots where I can help you and.

這是 2025 年的情況。關於 Thom Browne，我們已經說過批發量出現了兩位數的下滑。對 Thom Browne 而言，DTC 的成長主要來自於我們——在我們的低個位數成長中，我們主要將來自太空的成長考慮在內。正如您所說，今年有多個空缺職位。我們慶祝了去年開幕的周年紀念日，同時也接管了加拿大或[多倫多]的一些門市。因此，成長的動力來自DTC。我們表示，DTC 的整體預期落地率為 80%。我認為這些是我可以幫助你的連接點。

And the other question was, sorry --

另一個問題是，抱歉--

I think that we can add also the productivity factor in the stores. I think overall there is a good traction in gaining productivity. I would say both with Zegna and Tom Ford. And I think that this product evolution not only on the upper side but also on broadening the offer. For instance, we are coming out with this beautiful new collection of a [moccasin] shoes, a new loafer, partially handmade with incredible leather, we in summer without the so very Mediterranean, very kind and very lifestyle.

我認為我們還可以在商店中添加生產力因素。我認為總體而言，這對提高生產力有良好的推動作用。我想說 Zegna 和 Tom Ford 都是如此。我認為該產品的發展不僅體現在高端方面，還體現在擴大產品範圍方面。例如，我們推出了這款漂亮的新系列 [莫卡辛] 鞋，一款新的樂福鞋，部分採用令人難以置信的皮革手工製作，我們在夏天沒有如此地中海、非常友好和非常生活方式。

And I think that a product like that, I mean, in another project we're coming out with the knitwear. I'm wearing that every day or (inaudible) is a lightweight knitwear, very comfortable, fresh, for the men who travels for the office also. So I think that all these projects that they're not super expensive. They're costly, but not expensive. I think will help driving the productivity in the Zegna store in order to attract a new customer and satisfy the current customer that already has plenty of the Zegna iconic product.

我認為，像這樣的產品，我的意思是，在另一個項目中，我們將推出針織品。我每天都穿它，或者（聽不清楚）是一件輕便的針織衫，非常舒適、清新，也適合去辦公室旅行的男士。所以我認為所有這些項目都不是特別昂貴。它們價格昂貴，但並不昂貴。我認為這將有助於提高傑尼亞商店的生產力，以吸引新客戶並滿足已經擁有大量傑尼亞標誌性產品的現有客戶。

We said on the iconicity and on the balance of the term for the collection. And I think that will be also helping the productivity. So I think that we have put in place, I mean, all the necessary item or weapon in order to improve our DTC development. And also, I must say whenever we turn an old sale in into a concession store, we can make the example of the Nordstrom in the United States or we can make the examples of a [ozone]. We see that the productivity climbs are dramatically.

我們談論的是該系列的標誌性和術語的平衡性。我認為這也有助於提高生產力。所以我認為我們已經準備好了所有必要的物品或武器，以改善我們的 DTC 開發。而且，我必須說，每當我們把舊商品銷售變成特許經營店時，我們都可以效仿美國的諾德斯特龍百貨公司，或者效仿[臭氧]。我們看到生產力大幅提升。

And so we just have to speed up. And likewise, for Thom Browne. So I think that is it is something that we own, and it's just a matter of executed properly and speed up the execution in wherever we open store or we convert store. Thank you.

所以我們必須加快速度。對於 Thom Browne 來說也是如此。所以我認為這是我們擁有的東西，這只是一個正確執行的問題，並且在我們開設商店或轉換商店時加快執行速度。謝謝。

(multiple speakers) We'd love thoughts on the complexion of growth multiyear. But another one, regarding product at Thom Browne. What are your thoughts on recruitment tools there and applying the right amount of simplify to amplify in terms of growing awareness of Thom Browne in a commercial way?

（多位發言者）我們很想了解多年期成長前景。還有另外一個，關於 Thom Browne 的產品。您對那裡的招募工具有何看法，以及如何運用適當的簡化手段以商業方式提高 Thom Browne 的知名度？

And on Tom Ford, more specifically, what's the game plan for women's and accessories in terms of timing and impact, and what we should watch as you continue to push forward with a new powerful creative vision? Thank you.

更具體地說，關於湯姆福特 (Tom Ford)，從時機和影響來看，您對女裝和配件有什麼計劃？當您繼續推進新的強大創意願景時，我們應該關注什麼？謝謝。

Thank you. So the question is on Thom Browne, how we are enlarging the -- and our, as you said the target to enlarging our customer base to be more engaging and how this is progressing. And the second one on Tom Ford on the women and okay --

謝謝。所以問題在於 Thom Browne，我們如何擴大——正如你所說，我們的目標是擴大我們的客戶群，從而更具吸引力，以及這項工作進展如何。第二個是關於湯姆福特和女性的，好吧--

I start with the second one first. It's a must -- I think Tom Ford, it's hard to say whether it's more fashion ready to wear or it's more accessories. I think it's both. I think that [hydra] has done a marvelous job in showing what they can do and ready to wear. I think we are at the beginning of the journey with that session, I think we did some interesting presentation in the shoes. I think in bags, we have some work to do.

我先從第二個開始。這是必須的——我認為對於湯姆福特來說，很難說它是更多的時尚成衣還是更多的配件。我認為兩者都有。我認為 [hydra] 在展示他們能做什麼以及能穿什麼方面做得非常出色。我認為我們正處於該會議旅程的開始階段，我認為我們在鞋子方面做了一些有趣的演示。我認為在包裝方面我們還有一些工作要做。

And so I think that you will see more happening in summer '26. It was impossible for him to do everything the first time. I think that he did focus on the things which we needed most, which was the clothing side. And as a matter of fact, you can appreciate that most of the fabric was from our textile platform, most of the product were produced in our factories, which is very satisfactory. And so I think you will see more for some '26 in terms of (inaudible)

所以我認為你會在 2026 年夏天看到更多的事情發生。他不可能第一次就把所有事情都做完。我認為他確實關注了我們最需要的東西，也就是服裝方面。事實上，您可以看到大部分佈料都來自我們的紡織平台，大部分產品都是在我們的工廠生產的，這是非常令人滿意的。所以我認為你會看到更多 26 年的（聽不清楚）

I think that in Tom Ford, as I said before, I think the challenge there is to go after the local -- sorry, Thom Browne, and I think that the collection that Thom has put together, meets this objective. I think that the collection is -- was spot on for Asia. But I think that more selection, a different selection was needed for both North America and Europe, which I think that the 425 collection has shown. And I think also the marketing, if you look at the catalog, the loop what's it called the lookbook. We change gear. I mean, from a lookbook that looked very creative, very short drive, it's a lookbook of a product you like to purchase in the store and you can find in the store.

我認為，正如我之前所說，湯姆福特面臨的挑戰是追隨本土市場——對不起，是湯姆布朗，我認為湯姆打造的系列符合這一目標。我認為這個系列非常適合亞洲。但我認為北美和歐洲都需要更多選擇，不同的選擇，我認為 425 系列已經展示了這一點。我還認為，如果你看一下目錄，你會發現行銷也被稱為樣本冊。我們換檔。我的意思是，從一本看起來非常有創意、非常短的驅動器的樣本來看，它是一本你喜歡在商店購買並且可以在商店中找到的產品的樣本。

So that together with the outreach will help reaching out more of the locals. So the goal really is for Thom Browne is [rein] and going after the locals with a collection more geared towards that. And I must say Zegna is a new leader. I think that the way we turn around with branding was not just go after a visitor regardless of where they were just go after the local. And then visitor can add to that, and I think they really done a super job. So the same will apply and and I think it will be -- I think that you asked me when it will happen, it will happen.

這樣，結合外展活動將有助於接觸更多的當地人。因此，Thom Browne 的真正目標是控制並追逐本地市場，推出更適合本地市場的系列產品。我必須說傑尼亞是一位新的領導者。我認為，我們進行品牌推廣的方式不僅僅是追逐遊客，無論他們身在何處，只追逐當地人。然後訪客可以添加這些內容，我認為他們確實做得非常出色。所以同樣適用，而且我認為它會——我想你問我什麼時候會發生，它就會發生。

But we just -- you have to take a natural, an organic road. You just can't push it to the limit. But I think the direction is there, the vision is there, it's just a matter to execute it properly. but I see some positiveness on both brands for the winter '25 line in the store.

但我們只是──你必須走一條自然、有機的路。你就是無法推向極限。但我認為方向是存在的，願景是存在的，只是如何正確執行的問題。但我看到這兩個品牌在 2025 年冬季系列中都表現出一些積極跡象。

Thank you. Oliver, can we move to the next question?

謝謝。奧利佛，我們可以進入下一個問題嗎？

Yeah, thank you very much, best regards.

是的，非常感謝，謹致問候。

Melania Grippo, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的梅蘭妮亞·格里波。

Good morning or good afternoon, everyone. This is Melania Grippo from BNP Paribas Bank. I have two questions. So the first one if you could please share the initial feedback, client reaction to your (inaudible) Have you seen any difference by country, if you could please give more granularity around it? And also, my second question is on the CapEx for '25. I think you mentioned them during the presentation, but I couldn't hear very well. And also an update on your supply chain. When should we expect the factory in pharma to be completed? Thank you.

大家早安或下午好。我是法國巴黎銀行的梅蘭妮亞‧格里波。我有兩個問題。因此，第一個問題，如果您可以分享初步回饋，客戶對您的反應（聽不清楚）您是否看到不同國家之間的差異，如果您可以提供更詳細的資訊？另外，我的第二個問題是關於 25 年的資本支出。我想您在演講過程中提到他們，但我聽不太清楚。以及您的供應鏈的最新情況。製藥廠什麼時候能竣工？謝謝。

Thank you, Melania. On (inaudible) performance.

謝謝你，梅蘭妮亞。關於（聽不清楚）表現。

I must say that, I sent them my -- I found a similar action on a launch project. If I can make the example of deepest. I think we had peaks and lows. So some country reacted after one season, the other a couple of seasons. I must say that maybe because it was selectively distributed. We had only in a small number of doors, very selective and we invited the customer to view the collection. I must say that we had a good attraction across the world.

我必須說，我向他們發送了我的——我在一個啟動項目上發現了類似的行動。如果我能舉出最深的例子。我認為我們有過高峰，也有過低谷。因此，一些國家在一個賽季後就做出了反應，而其他國家則在幾個賽季後做出了反應。我必須說這可能是因為它是選擇性分發的。我們只在少數門市進行過精心挑選，並邀請顧客來觀賞收藏品。我必須說，我們在世界各地都有很好的吸引力。

If I had to make a ranking, number one is Europe -- I would say number one is the Middle East. I put that ranking. Number two is Europe. Number three is the United States. And number four is Asia in terms of ranking. But I would say, all four in pretty good standards. And I think that the merit was the communication, it was the focus, and it was the planning of inviting the customer ahead of time. And by creating experience when they saw the collection and creating a kind of a surprise effect.

如果我必須做出排名的話，第一名是歐洲——我會說第一名是中東。我把那個排名放出來了。第二名是歐洲。第三名是美國。排名第四的是亞洲。但我想說，這四個標準都相當高。我認為其優點在於溝通、重點以及提前邀請客戶的計劃。並透過在他們看到該系列產品時創造體驗並產生一種驚喜效果。

There's something that they could buy which is unique. And the interesting thing is that we have a couple of cases of VAC, what they call our (inaudible) club that have been bought. In the same week in several places. So they bought one jacket in one place, and one coat, and they bought the jersey, then they bought. So it means that they appreciate the product and they bought more as they travel took them around the world. So it's interesting this journey. So a very positive journey.

他們可以買到一些獨特的東西。有趣的是，我們有幾個 VAC 案例，他們稱之為我們的（聽不清楚）俱樂部，已經被購買了。同一周在多個地方發生。所以他們在一個地方買了一件夾克，一件外套，然後他們買了運動衫，然後他們又買了。所以這意味著他們很欣賞該產品，並且在環遊世界旅行時購買了更多產品。所以這趟旅程很有趣。這是一次非常積極的旅程。

On the CapEx '25 and on the supply chain, Gianluca.

關於資本支出 '25 和供應鏈，Gianluca。

So the CapEx for '24 was 6.4%, and we confirmed that '25 will be still in the range of 6% to 7%. And that is also coming from the efforts we are doing in (inaudible). '25 is the major year for making the construction started. And the goal is to have the factory up and running in the second half of next year.

因此，24 年的資本支出為 6.4%，我們確認 25 年仍將在 6% 至 7% 的範圍內。這也是我們在（聽不清楚）方面所做努力的結果。 2025年是開工的重要一年。我們的目標是在明年下半年讓工廠投入營運。

Perfect. But you are right, Melania. I can go to one question from the webcaster which is a little -- more for Gianluca, but also for Gildo. The question says what exactly has changed in 2027 outlook and why more conservative midterm view on China, despite winning share with your best consumers?

完美的。但你是對的，梅蘭妮亞。我可以回答網路播音員的一個問題，這個問題更多是針對詹盧卡 (Gianluca) 的，但也針對吉爾多 (Gildo)。問題是，2027 年的前景究竟發生了哪些變化，以及為什麼儘管贏得了最佳消費者的青睞，但在中期選舉中對中國的看法卻更為保守？

So then, Gildo will comment on --

那麼，Gildo 會評論--

I think that, is very simple. I think we are realistic, and we have to live in today's times. And so we have to change the targets for different market environment and for time and reason. It's as simple as that. And they are the second reason that we can compromise between margin and brand delusion. This is the second reason. But we remain confident that we you can also do better. And the fact that we're working on cost and on productivity for improvement. I mean, it's. It is very important. The other thing is that we have taken, rightly so, a policy to defend our investment.

我認為那很簡單。我認為我們是現實的，我們必須生活在當今時代。因此，我們必須根據不同的市場環境、時間和理由來改變目標。就這麼簡單。這也是我們能夠在利潤和品牌妄想之間妥協的第二個原因。這是第二個原因。但我們仍然相信我們也可以做得更好。事實上，我們正​​在努力降低成本並提高生產力。我的意思是，確實如此。這非常重要。另一件事是，我們採取了正確的政策來保護我們的投資。

In marketing, in CapEx, in, research and development, in a selective way, not just -- but it's easy, when times gets challenging as they got besides China in '24 and '25. No, we got this and we cut that, no. We're going in for the long term. We have a vision for each brand and we want to keep the vision. And so I think that this compromise. It is margin and brand illusion that is key. And I think that we gave priority to that rather than rushing it and then maybe having surprises later on.

在行銷、資本支出、研發方面，以選擇性的方式，不僅僅是——但這很容易，當時代變得充滿挑戰時，就像 24 年和 25 年除了中國之外的情況一樣。不，我們得到了這個，我們剪掉了那個，不。我們要長期堅持下去。我們對每個品牌都有一個願景，我們希望保持這個願景。所以我認為這是妥協。利潤和品牌幻覺才是關鍵。我認為我們優先考慮了這一點，而不是倉促行事，然後再可能有驚喜。

Okay, I don't think we (inaudible) Operators, any further questions?

好的，我認為我們（聽不清楚）操作員，還有其他問題嗎？

Oliver Chen, TD Cowen.

奧利弗·陳（Oliver Chen），TD Cowen。

Hi, thanks Gildo and Gianluca, thanks. The question is on wholesale. Wholesale's been a tough channel, throughout, And it's we see some risk this year in wholesale in different regions as well. What's doing better versus worse in wholesale and how much volatility has also gotten worse, since you since you last reported and just curious about regions and strengths and weaknesses with that since it's impacting a lot of your portfolio?

嗨，謝謝 Gildo 和 Gianluca，謝謝。問題是關於批發的。批發一直是個艱難的管道，我們今年也看到不同地區的批發存在一些風險。自您上次報告以來，批發業務表現好壞如何？波動性又惡化了多少？我只是好奇各個地區的優勢和劣勢，因為這對您的許多投資組合產生了影響？

Okay. The question is on the wholesale was doing better or worse and what we are seeing and maybe it's the right to divide it by brand?

好的。問題在於批發業務是好是壞，我們看到的是什麼，也許以品牌劃分是正確的？

I think it's more than what's doing better than what's from a geographical standpoint. I think that what is doing better is our franchisee. That is a different. It's a different kind in nature wholesaler because we are able to implement in the franchisee most of our go-to-market strategy. So in terms of cadence of products, in terms of training tools, in terms of visual merchandise. So that part across the geographies on the thing a side, namely, it's performing well.

我認為這不僅僅是從地理角度來看什麼做得更好。我認為做得更好的是我們的加盟商。那是不同的。這是一種本質上不同的批發商，因為我們能夠在特許經營商中實施大部分的行銷策略。因此，就產品節奏、培訓工具和視覺商品而言。因此，從各個地區來看，這一部分錶現都很好。

That is the case of course in some of the Eastern European countries, in some of the Middle Eastern, African, South American. So in most countries where we do not go direct and we have a trusted partner, and we are able to make them be part of our DTC strategy, DTC like strategy. I think that is the part.

當然，一些東歐國家、一些中東國家、非洲國家和南美洲國家的情況都是如此。因此，在大多數我們沒有直接進入的國家，我們有一個值得信賴的合作夥伴，我們能夠讓他們成為我們 DTC 策略的一部分，類似 DTC 的策略。我認為這就是部分。

On the others which are either department stores or specialty doors, it depends very much from their financial stability. So it's a scattered. I cannot say that there is one specific trend. It's scattered. There are some ones that are going well, where they have the trust of their clients, where they have the financial stability to do proper open to buy, and others that are more struggling on the open to buy or have less of a trusted link with their clients that we see them struggle more. So there is no one pattern.

對於其他百貨公司或專賣店來說，這很大程度上取決於它們的財務穩定性。所以它是分散的。我不能說存在一種特定的趨勢。很散。有些公司經營得很好，贏得了客戶的信任，擁有穩定的財務狀況，可以進行適當的公開購買，而有些公司在公開購買方面則舉步維艱，或者與客戶的信任聯繫較弱，我們看到他們面臨的困境更大。所以不存在單一的模式。

I would make a big difference here. Between specialty store and department store. Okay, the few remaining specialty store which we are in have done super well. I must say that -- I can't give you the numbers, but I must say that in the past two seasons we've been (inaudible) among one of the top brands in terms of --

我會在這裡做出巨大改變。介於專賣店和百貨公司之間。好的，我們所在剩下的幾家專賣店都表現得非常好。我必須說——我無法提供具體數字，但我必須說，在過去兩個季度裡，我們（聽不清楚）在--

Because the selection was focused and just a look alike what we bought, as simple as that. I can make the example of the number one specialty do in the United States, [Mitchell]. It is a family that have now six doors. They've done -- we are the major supplier of them, we've done extremely well. So, whenever you have a store that caters to the local, with a good offer and a good service and a good customer base.

因為選擇很集中，我們買的只是看起來相似的東西，就這麼簡單。我可以在美國做第一專業的例子，[米切爾]。現在這個家庭有六扇門。他們已經做到了——我們是他們的主要供應商，我們做得非常好。因此，只要您有一家迎合當地需求的商店，就能提供優質的產品、優質的服務和良好的客戶群。

Well with the family store is more difficult, and they don't want to make names. So we are privileged, because the concession model and in privilege that you know we have done well. Then what Gianluca said is franchising for me franchising is more retail. I mean even though we can't do the wholesale, it's the declination of the DTC in countries where we don't feel going direct yet or maybe. Tomorrow and so I think that is controlled by us in a way the open to buy, the selection, the visual, the personalization there is. But it's a lot of work behind.

嗯，家庭商店比較困難，而且他們不想出名。所以我們很榮幸，因為在特許經營模式和特權方面，你知道我們做得很好。那麼，Gianluca 所說的特許經營對我來說更多的是零售。我的意思是，儘管我們不能進行批發，但在那些我們還沒有感覺到直接銷售的國家，DTC 的銷售正在下降。所以我認為明天我們將以某種方式控制購買的開放性、選擇、視覺和個人化。但這背後還有很多工作要做。

So overall, we have proved our distribution in Zegna, surely more so in Thom Browne. I think that in Thom Browne, we've been always very selective. One of the things that I must say (inaudible) Tom Ford is their selectivity and distribution. One of the most selected brand wholesale distributed. So we can only do better with those, provided we give the proper merchandise.

總體而言，我們已經證明了我們在 Zegna 的分銷能力，在 Thom Browne 的分銷能力更是如此。我認為，在 Thom Browne，我們一直都非常挑剔。我必須要說的一件事（聽不清楚）是湯姆福特的選擇性和分銷。最受青睞的批發分銷品牌之一。因此，只要我們提供合適的商品，我們就能做得更好。

So overall, even though the split is 80-20, I think that I personally do care a lot about the 20% of wholesaler because we can really do well with them and it is a way to help us increasing the local. I keep saying the biggest challenge of a luxury brand is cater to the local. If you can do that, and I can make -- I don't want to make a couple of examples, there are a couple of examples.

所以總的來說，儘管分成比例是 80-20，但我認為我個人還是非常關心那 20% 的批發商，因為我們可以和他們合作得很好，這是一種幫助我們增加本地業務的方法。我一直說奢侈品牌面臨的最大挑戰是迎合當地市場。如果你能做到這一點，我就可以──我不想舉幾個例子，就舉幾個例子。

The one that are able to do that. They're going to be more immune to crisis, whatever it is or to traveling or to far (inaudible) fluctuation. And so I think that this is an important thing, that more so now, we want to foster in all the three brands. And I don't think there are many that can do that.

能夠做到這一點的人。他們將對危機（無論是什麼危機）、旅行或遠距離（聽不清楚）波動具有更強的免疫力。所以我認為這是一件重要的事情，現在更重要的是，我們希望在這三個品牌中培養這一點。我認為沒有多少人能夠做到這一點。

Okay, very helpful. Thank you.

好的，非常有幫助。謝謝。

Thank you, Oliver. I asked, really if there is the final one, otherwise I think it's time for us to thank you, operator.

謝謝你，奧利佛。我問，真的有最後一個嗎，否則我想我們是時候感謝你了，接線生。

We have no further questions registered.

我們沒有其他問題。

Thank you so much. So I thank you everybody for always the very interesting question that always surprise us on the positive side. So just a couple of reminders, we report the first quarter results on the April 24. So silent period will start on April 1. While we also would like to advise you that our full fiscal year 2024 annual report will be filed today after market close.

太感謝了。因此，我感謝大家總是提出非常有趣的問題，這些問題總是帶給我們正面的驚喜。因此，只需提醒一下，我們將於 4 月 24 日報告第一季業績。因此靜默期將於 4 月 1 日開始。同時，我們也想通知您，我們的 2024 財年完整年度報告將於今天收盤後提交。

Thank you, and we are here for any follow up question you might have. Thank you so much for everything.

謝謝您，如果您有任何問題，我們都會在這裡解答。非常感謝你所做的一切。

Bye, thank you.

再見，謝謝。