YPF SA (YPF) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. This is Margarita Chun YPF IR Manager. Thank you for joining us today in our full year and fourth quarter 2023 earnings presentation and strategic outlook.

早安，女士們，先生們。我是 YPF IR 經理 Margarita Chun。感謝您今天參加我們的 2023 年全年和第四季度收益演示和戰略展望。

Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to our cautionary statement on Slide 2. Please take into consideration that our remarks today and answers to your questions may include forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to be materially different from the expectations contemplated by these remarks.

在我們開始之前，我想提請您注意我們在幻燈片2 上的警告性聲明。請考慮到我們今天的言論和對您問題的回答可能包括前瞻性陳述，這些陳述存在風險和不確定性，可能會導致實際情況結果與這些言論所設想的預期有重大差異。

Also, note exchange rate used in calculations to reach our main financial figures in U.S. dollars. Our financial figures are stated in accordance with IFRS, but during the presentation, we might discuss some non-IFRS measures such as adjusted EBITDA.

另請注意計算中使用的匯率，以得出我們以美元為單位的主要財務數據。我們的財務數據是根據 IFRS 表述的，但在演示過程中，我們可能會討論一些非 IFRS 指標，例如調整後的 EBITDA。

I will now turn to Horacio to a brief introduction. Please go ahead.

現在我請奧拉西奧做一個簡單的介紹。請繼續。

Thank you, Margarita, and good morning to all of you. Welcome to this renew earnings webcast presentation from YPF Corporate Building in Buenos Aires. I am Horacio Marin, the new CEO and Chairman of the Board of YPF.

謝謝你，瑪格麗塔，祝大家早安。歡迎收看布宜諾斯艾利斯 YPF 公司大樓的更新收益網路廣播展示。我是 YPF 新任執行長兼董事會主席奧拉西奧·馬林 (Horacio Marin)。

Before moving to the purpose of this video call, I would like to express how proud and honored I am to assume the responsibility to lead the largest integrated energy company in Argentina, leading more than 20,000 employees and more than 40,000 people that indirectly contribute with us.

在談到這次視訊通話的目的之前，我想表達我是多麼自豪和榮幸，能夠承擔起領導阿根廷最大的綜合能源公司的責任，領導著超過20,000 名員工以及與我們間接做出貢獻的40,000 多人。

I have the firm commitment to take YPF to the next level by growing consistently in a profitable way and become a next exporter of energy in the long term, always maintaining a prudent financial strategy while keeping the safety and sustainability of our operation at the forefront of our day-to-day decision.

我堅定地致力於透過持續獲利的方式將YPF 提升到一個新的水平，並成為下一個長期的能源出口國，始終保持審慎的財務策略，同時將我們營運的安全性和可持續性放在首位。我們的日常決定。

Today, I will conduct this presentation with our new CFO, Federico Barroetave, who will go through the main highlights and financial results for the full year and Q4 2023. Also, our Strategy Vice President, Maximiliano Westen, we detailed a more relevant operational performance figures of the year. After this, I will share our new strategy outlook for the next year. At the end of the presentation, we will open up for questions.

今天，我將與我們的新財務長Federico Barroetave 一起進行本次演講，他將介紹全年和2023 年第四季的主要亮點和財務業績。此外，我們的策略副總裁Maximiliano Westen 也詳細介紹了更相關的營運業績年度數字。接下來，我將分享我們明年的新策略展望。在演示結束時，我們將開放提問。

I will now turn to Federico to begin with the main highlands and financial results.

現在我將請費德里科從主要高地和財務表現開始。

Thank you, Horacio, and good morning to all of you. Before we begin our presentation, I would like to express my pleasure and pride to be part of the new management team of the company. Now let me start by saying that 2023 was a very challenging year driven by a complex local macroeconomic environment with high inflation, strong volatility and a downward trend in international prices.

謝謝你，奧拉西奧，祝大家早安。在我們開始演講之前，我想表達我成為公司新管理團隊的一員的高興和自豪。首先我要說的是，2023年是充滿挑戰的一年，國內宏觀經濟環境複雜，通膨高企，波動劇烈，國際物價下行。

In this context, the company was able to grow total production for the second consecutive year, deploying its annual CapEx plan while preserving a healthy financial position. Adjusted EBITDA totaled around $4 billion in 2023, decreasing 18% annually. This lower outcome was a result of 3 main factors: first, the lower domestic fuel prices and the returns; second, a moderate reduction in prices of other refined products; and finally, higher OpEx, particularly driven by an increasing inflationary context. This was partially offset by the expansion in total production and processing levels.

在此背景下，該公司能夠連續第二年實現總產量成長，部署年度資本支出計劃，同時保持健康的財務狀況。 2023 年調整後 EBITDA 總額約 40 億美元，每年下降 18%。這較低的結果是由三個主要因素造成的：第一，國內燃料價格和回報較低；二是適度降低其他成品油價格。最後，更高的營運支出，尤其是在通膨加劇的背景下。這被總生產和加工水平的擴張部分抵消。

Now moving on to the fourth quarter, there was an important turning point for some key variables by the end of the period. Adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter represented the highest mark of the year, reaching almost $1.1 billion, 17% above the previous quarter. This was a direct result of an almost 8% expansion in all productions.

現在進入第四季度，期末一些關鍵變數出現了重要轉折點。第四季調整後 EBITDA 創年最高水平，達到近 11 億美元，比上一季成長 17%。這是所有產量成長近 8% 的直接結果。

Since the end of the year, the new pricing strategy of the company increased local fuel prices up 6% sequentially in dollar terms or passing the strong devaluations recorded on average during the period. On the other hand, costs contracted by about 8% sequentially, mostly driven by the discrete devaluation that took place in mid-December.

自年底以來，公司新的定價策略使當地燃油價格以美元計算連續上漲6%，超過了期內平均大幅貶值。另一方面，成本則是環比收縮約 8%，主要是由於 12 月中旬發生的離散貶值所致。

Lastly, the positive effects of the new export increase program which allowed to convert export and international financing at a special FX rate almost compensated the seasonal reduction in our natural gas sales.

最後，新的出口增加計畫允許以特殊匯率兌換出口和國際融資，其正面影響幾乎彌補了我們天然氣銷售的季節性減少。

Our bottom line in 2023 came at a loss of near $1.3 billion and almost $1.9 billion in the fourth quarter. This negative net income during the quarter was particularly affected by a noncash impairment charge of $1.8 billion pretax. This impairment came on the back of the new disposal strategy of conventional material fields approved by our Board last week. The disposal decision requires a future reclassification to held-for-sale assets and triggered an impairment loss indicator under IFRS.

我們 2023 年的淨利虧損近 13 億美元，第四季虧損近 19 億美元。本季淨利為負尤其受到 18 億美元稅前非現金減損費用的影響。這項減損是在董事會上週批准的傳統材料領域新處置策略的背景下產生的。該處置決定要求未來重新分類為持有待售資產，並觸發了國際財務報告準則下的減損損失指標。

Accordingly, the company performed a comprehensive review of the assets and recognize this impairment of PP&E as of December 31.

因此，公司對資產進行了全面審查，並於 12 月 31 日確認了財產、廠房和設備的減損。

In terms of our operational performance, total hydrocarbon production averaged 514,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day in 2023, rising 2% versus 2022, mainly driven by a sound performance in our shale operations that Max will explain later.

就我們的營運績效而言，2023 年碳氫化合物總產量平均為每天514,000 桶石油當量，比2022 年增長2%，這主要是由於我們頁岩業務的良好表現，Max 稍後將對此進行解釋。

On the financial side and as expected by the company, during Q4, free cash flow was slightly negative at $60 million, accumulating a negative free cash flow of $740 million in 2023. The deployment of our investment plan and interest payments were not fully compensated by the cash flow from operations, taking our net debt to almost $6.8 billion while maintaining the net leverage ratio within the prudent levels of 1.7x, fully aligned with the target of the year.

在財務方面，正如公司預期的那樣，第四季度自由現金流略為負數，為6000 萬美元，到2023 年累計自由現金流負數為7.4 億美元。我們的投資計劃的部署和利息支付並未得到充分補償營運現金流，使我們的淨債務達到近 68 億美元，同時將淨槓桿率保持在 1.7 倍的審慎水平內，完全符合今年的目標。

Now let's start with the evolution of the fuel pricing in the local market. Until the third quarter of '23, local fuel prices couldn't absorb the depreciation of the currency. However, since November, the company has been adjusting fuel prices consistently, narrowing the discount to the international parity, down from 28% in Q3 to 8% now.

現在讓我們從當地市場燃油定價的演變開始。直到20世紀23年第三季度，當地燃油價格仍無法吸收貨幣貶值。但自11月以來，該公司不斷調整燃油價格，縮小與國際油價的貼水，從第三季的28%降至目前的8%。

Also, local crude price has recorded a significant recovery during 2024, representing a discount versus export parity slightly above 10% in February.

此外，當地原油價格在 2024 年錄得顯著回升，較 2 月出口平價略高於 10%。

Going forward, although it is hard to predict, mostly due to the volatility in international prices, the company still needs to preserve prices, aiming at narrowing the gap and compensating for the evolution of the Argentine peso. We will pursue this objective considering the delicate equilibrium that needs to be maintained and the impact on the demand ability to afford fuel cost within the local macroeconomic context.

展望未來，儘管很難預測（主要是由於國際價格波動），但該公司仍需要維持價格，旨在縮小差距並補償阿根廷比索的演變。我們將考慮到需要維持的微妙平衡以及在當地宏觀經濟背景下對承受燃料成本的需求能力的影響來實現這一目標。

Switching to the financial front, annual cash flows from operations totaled $5.9 billion, 4% higher than the previous year. Despite the annual contraction in adjusted EBITDA higher cash flow from operation was a result of higher dividend collection from our subsidiaries as well as other positive working capital variations.

轉向財務方面，年度營運現金流總計 59 億美元，比上年增長 4%。儘管調整後的 EBITDA 年度收縮，但營運現金流量增加是由於我們子公司收取的股息增加以及其他積極的營運資本變化。

However, given the full redeployment of our CapEx plan together with our regular interest payments, annual free cash flow came at a negative $740 million. Nevertheless, during Q4, the sequential expansion of our EBITDA combined with some of the positive working capital variations, allowed us to almost cover our capital expenditures and interest. Thus, we ended the quarter with a slightly negative free cash flow of $60 million, a marginal sequential increase of our net debt to almost $6.8 billion and a stable net leverage ratio of 1.7x.

然而，考慮到我們的資本支出計劃的全面重新部署以及定期利息支付，年度自由現金流為負 7.4 億美元。儘管如此，在第四季度，我們的 EBITDA 連續擴張，加上一些積極的營運資本變化，使我們幾乎能夠涵蓋我們的資本支出和利息。因此，本季結束時，我們的自由現金流為 6,000 萬美元，略有負值，淨債務連續小幅增加至近 68 億美元，淨槓桿率穩定為 1.7 倍。

In terms of financing, during Q4, we continued deploying our financial program by securing both local and cross-border trade-related loans obtained from relationship banks and by tapping the local capital markets at very attractive financing costs.

在融資方面，第四季度，我們繼續部署我們的金融計劃，從關係銀行獲得本地和跨境貿易相關貸款，並以極具吸引力的融資成本利用本地資本市場。

In total, during the year, we were able to raise about $2.6 billion, 50% from local capital markets, 35% from trade finance loans and the remaining 15% from the cross-border A/B loan led by CAF. This represented net new funding of almost $1.3 billion after deducting debt amortization paid during the period.

一年來，我們總共籌集了約26億美元，其中50%來自當地資本市場，35%來自貿易融資貸款，其餘15%來自CAF主導的跨國A/B貸款。扣除期間支付的債務攤銷後，新融資淨額接近 13 億美元。

And more recently, on January 10, YPF successfully returned to the international capital market, leading the reopening for Argentine Corps by using an export secured bond for a nominal value of $800 million. The new bond has a 7-year final maturity, a fixed rate of 9.5% and a yield of 9.75%. Simultaneously, we launched a cash tender offer for the 2024 notes, which result in prepayments of near 40% of the outstanding notes.

最近，1月10日，YPF成功重返國際資本市場，透過面額8億美元的出口擔保債券引領阿根廷軍團重新開放。新債券最終期限為7年，固定利率為9.5%，殖利率為9.75%。同時，我們對 2024 年票據發起了現金要約收購，導致已發行票據的近 40% 被提前償付。

On the liquidity front, our cash and short-term investments as of December 31, remained almost unchanged on a sequential basis at almost $1.4 billion despite the large devaluation that took place in mid-December, thanks to the active asset management strategy to minimize FX exposure.

On the liquidity front, our cash and short-term investments as of December 31, remained almost unchanged on a sequential basis at almost $1.4 billion despite the large devaluation that took place in mid-December, thanks to the active asset management strategy to minimize FX曝露.

Regarding our short-term financial obligations, our total consolidated financial maturities for 2024 amounted around $1.3 billion as of December of last year. However, the recent bond issued combined with the 2024 bond tender reduced considerably our short-term financing needs, leading to a very manageable maturities profile for the rest of the year.

關於我們的短期財務義務，截至去年 12 月，我們 2024 年的合併財務到期總額約為 13 億美元。然而，最近發行的債券加上 2024 年債券招標大大減少了我們的短期融資需求，導致今年剩餘時間的到期日狀況非常可控。

I now turn to Max Wester, who will continue the presentation with more details on our operating results.

我現在請馬克斯·韋斯特 (Max Wester) 發言，他將繼續介紹我們的營運業績的更多細節。

Thank you, Federico, and good morning to everyone. Let me start by saying that the safety of our workers is our top priority and the development of the activities of the company. That is why we deeply regret one accident with fatal consequences that one of our upstream contractor workers suffered during last February, which commits us to increase our efforts to ensure operations at the minimum possible extent risk.

謝謝你，費德里科，祝大家早安。首先我要說的是，員工的安全是我們的首要任務，也是公司活動的發展。因此，我們對去年 2 月發生的一名上游承包商工人發生的致命事故深感遺憾，這促使我們加大力度，確保營運風險降至最低。

Now regarding 2023 evolution, we recorded another year of substantial progress in our safety indicators achieving an accident frequency rate per million hours worth of 0.23 with 0 fatalities in our operations. These results were possible, thanks to several initiatives focused on preventing actions training, risk control activities and audits of critical processes and facilities, further focusing on sustainability and in line with our strong commitment to contribute to the reduction of carbon footprint.

現在就 2023 年的發展而言，我們的安全指標又取得了實質進展，實現了每百萬小時事故頻率為 0.23，營運中死亡人數為零。這些成果的實現，得益於多項舉措，重點關注預防行動培訓、風險控制活動以及關鍵流程和設施的審計，進一步關注永續性，並符合我們為減少碳足跡做出貢獻的堅定承諾。

During 2023, we continued working hard to make progress on the reduction of our GHG emissions. In that sense, given the meaningfully lower emissions intensity of our growing shale operations and the several initiatives deployed so far.

2023年，我們繼續努力，在溫室氣體減量方面取得進展。從這個意義上說，考慮到我們不斷成長的頁岩業務的排放強度顯著降低以及迄今為止部署的多項措施。

In 2023, we reached a further decrease in our upstream unconventional carbon intensity level, Scope 1 and 2, averaging 13 kilograms of CO2 equivalent per BOE, 30% below 2022 and surpassing the [50-kilogram] targeted announced at the beginning of the year.

2023年，我們的上游非常規碳強度水準（範圍1和範圍2）進一步下降，平均每桶油當量二氧化碳當量13公斤，比2022年減少30%，並超過年初宣布的[50公斤]目標。

Lastly, let me highlight that in terms of energy transition, we continued expanding our renewal energy portfolio through our subsidiary, YPF Luz, the second largest renewable power generator in the country with an installed capacity of 3.2 gigawatts.

最後，我要強調的是，在能源轉型方面，我們透過子公司YPF Luz繼續擴大我們的再生能源組合，YPF Luz是全國第二大再生能源發電商，裝置容量為3.2吉瓦。

In this sense, during 2023, the company put in operation a new 100-megawatt solar farm project in the province of (inaudible) and continued making progress on the construction of the new 155-megawatt wind farm to be installed in the province of Cordova, which is expected to get the COD by the end of 2024.

從這個意義上說，2023年，該公司在（聽不清楚）省投入運營了一個新的100兆瓦太陽能發電場項目，並繼續在科爾多瓦省安裝的新155兆瓦風電場的建設取得進展，預計2024年底獲得COD。

Focusing on our upstream business. During 2023, our total hydrocarbon production continued to be upward trend initiated in 2022 by growing 2% versus 2022, and expanding 2% sequentially in the fourth quarter. Crude oil production recorded a remarkable annual increase of more than 7%, reaching in the fourth quarter, a production of 255,000 barrels per day, 8% above the third quarter and [3%] higher than the previous year, fully complying the ambitious targets for the year.

專注於我們的上游業務。 2023 年，我們的碳氫化合物總產量持續維持自 2022 年開始的上升趨勢，較 2022 年成長 2%，第四季較上季成長 2%。原油產量年增7%以上，第四季產量達到255,000桶/日，比第三季度增長8%，比上年增長[3%]，完全實現了宏偉目標今年。

It is also worth noting that during the last quarter, we achieved the highest level of oil production of the company in the last 50 years. Beyond crude, natural gas production averaged 36 million cubic meters per day in 2023, declining around 3% versus the previous year, primarily due to lower demand in the second half of the year, which impacted particularly in the fourth quarter, where natural gas production contracted 4% interannually. On the other hand, annual NGL production increased by 3% over the year.

另外值得注意的是，上個季度，我們實現了公司近50年來的最高石油產量。除原油外，2023 年天然氣產量平均為每天 3,600 萬立方米，比上年下降約 3%，主要是由於下半年需求下降，這對第四季度的影響尤其嚴重，天然氣產量下降年際收縮4% 。另一方面，NGL年產量較去年同期成長3%。

Now let me walk you through the performance of our shale operations, the main pillar of our strategy. Firstly, it is important to point out that in the fourth quarter, shale production represented 48% of our total hydrocarbon production compared to only 18% in 2019, representing a substantial transformation of our production metrics over the last 5 years.

現在讓我向您介紹我們的頁岩業務的表現，這是我們策略的主要支柱。首先，需要指出的是，第四季頁岩油產量占我們碳氫化合物總產量的 48%，而 2019 年僅為 18%，這代表著過去 5 年來我們生產指標的重大轉變。

In 2023, total shale production recorded a new annual expansion of more than 16%, particularly driven by shale oil, which continued delivering solid results expanding by 27% versus 2022, almost in line with the target for the year, averaging 97,000 barrels per day.

2023 年，頁岩油總產量錄得超過16% 的新年度增長，尤其是在頁岩油的推動下，頁岩油繼續取得穩健業績，較2022 年增長27%，幾乎符合當年平均每天97,000 桶的目標。

In the fourth quarter, shale oil production reached a new historical record of 109,000 barrels per day, growing 19% sequentially and 28% interannually. In addition, during the last quarter of the year, we continued exporting roughly 20,000 barrels per day of Medanito crude oil to Chile through the trans-Andean pipeline and the new Vaca Muerta Norte pipeline. The latter operational since 2023, representing 7% of total crude oil production and 12% of our Medanito oil production in the fourth quarter.

第四季度，頁岩油產量達到每日 109,000 桶的歷史新紀錄，季增 19%，年際成長 28%。此外，在今年最後一個季度，我們繼續透過跨安第斯管道和新的 Vaca Muerta Norte 管道每天向智利出口約 20,000 桶 Medanito 原油。後者自 2023 年開始運營，佔第四季度原油總產量的 7% 和 Medanito 石油產量的 12%。

Zooming into the evolution of hydrocarbon reserves, total proved reserves contracted by 10% in 2023. The decline was mainly driven by a significant decrease of 26%, in our conventional reserves, while shale oil reserves remained almost flat during the year, now representing 71% of our total reserves, up from 64% in 2022.

放大碳氫化合物儲量的演變，2023 年總探明儲量收縮了10%。這一下降主要是由於我們的常規儲量大幅下降26%，而頁岩油儲量在這一年中幾乎持平，目前為71 %。占我們總儲備的 %，高於 2022 年的 64%。

The addition of proved reserves totaled 128 million BOE, backed on the progressive development and expansion of our uncommercial operations particularly in Loma la Lata Norte and La Calera [blocks]. Moreover, we recorded an enhanced hydrocarbon recovery of 17 million BOE. However, the downward revision of our 72 million BOE due to higher cost pressure and lower prices combined with the total hydrocarbon production resulted in a total proved reserve decline.

新增探明儲量總計 1.28 億桶油當量，這得益於我們非商業業務的逐步開發和擴張，特別是在 Loma la Lata Norte 和 La Calera [區塊]。此外，我們的碳氫化合物採收率提高了 1,700 萬桶油當量。然而，由於較高的成本壓力和較低的價格，加上碳氫化合物總產量，我們下調了7,200萬桶油當量，導致總探明儲量下降。

It is worth noting that proven development reserves recorded an expansion of 2% year-over-year, mainly due to the effect of development activities, new extensions and discoveries previously mentioned, exceeding the annual production. On the other hand, proved undeveloped reserves decreased by 21%, driven by the reclassification to develop reserves, lower hydrocarbon prices and other revisions.

值得注意的是，探明開發儲量年增2%，主要是由於前面提到的開發活動、新延伸和發現的影響，超過了全年產量。另一方面，受開發儲量重新分類、碳氫化合物價格下降和其他修正的推動，探明未開發儲量下降了21%。

Considering the total hydrocarbon production of 2023, reserve replacement ratio stood at 0.4x for YPF and 1.0x for shale development.

考慮2023年的碳氫化合物總產量，YPF的儲量替代率為0.4倍，頁岩開發為1.0倍。

Switching to our downstream operations, our processing levels increased sequentially 5% in the fourth quarter, averaging 290,000 barrels per day after the completion of the program maintenance stoppages at Lujan de Cuyo and La Plata refineries that began in the third quarter.

轉向我們的下游業務，在第三季度開始的 Lujan de Cuyo 和 La Plata 煉油廠維護停工計劃完成後，我們的加工水平在第四季度環比增長了 5%，平均每天加工 290,000 桶。

It is worth highlighting that during 2023, we managed to achieve a record high production of gasoline and mill distillates and maximize our refinery conversion levels, also driven by higher oil production getting back to 90% of refinery utilization factor.

值得強調的是，2023 年期間，我們成功實現了汽油和磨餾分油產量創歷史新高，並最大限度地提高了煉油廠轉化水平，這也是由於石油產量提高，煉油廠利用率恢復到 90%。

Lastly, our domestic sales of gasoline and diesel remained strong in the fourth quarter, increasing by 4% sequentially while reaching in 2023, the highest level ever dispatch in every year.

最後，第四季我們的國內汽油和柴油銷售依然強勁，季增 4%，並在 2023 年達到歷年出貨量的最高水準。

To meet this high record demand besides the outstanding performance at our refineries, we increased fuel imports by 5% on an annual basis and slightly reduced our inventory levels, particularly in diesel.

為了滿足這項創紀錄的需求，除了煉油廠的出色表現外，我們每年將燃料進口量增加 5%，並略微降低庫存水平，特別是柴油庫存水平。

I will now switch back to Horacio to go through the updated strategic outlook for the next years.

我現在將回到奧拉西奧來回顧未來幾年的最新戰略展望。

Let me now walk you through our new strategic outlook. First of all, let me highlight that we are maintaining our long-term strategic pillars presented a year ago, committed to address the unique opportunities that we have ahead of us. Our strategic pillar remains to continue our focus on the monetization of our shale oil opportunities, taking advantage of the proven quality of the Vaca Muerta resources and the high quality achieved over the last 10 years.

現在讓我向您介紹我們的新策略前景。首先，我要強調，我們正在維持一年前提出的長期策略支柱，致力於抓住眼前的獨特機會。我們的戰略支柱仍然是繼續專注於頁岩油機會的貨幣化，利用瓦卡穆爾塔資源經過驗證的品質和過去 10 年實現的高品質。

Secondly, as we move forward with the monetization of our conventional oil resources, we will set the base for the next phase in Vaca Muerta, the monetization of natural gas. Our goal is to become a global LNG player through the massive monetization of our shale gas resources by deploying a large-scale LNG facility in Argentina.

其次，隨著我們推動常規石油資源貨幣化，我們將為瓦卡穆爾塔下一階段天然氣貨幣化奠定基礎。我們的目標是透過在阿根廷部署大型液化天然氣設施，將頁岩氣資源大規模貨幣化，成為全球液化天然氣參與者。

Finally, as we take a comprehensive look at the global energy markets and increasing relevance of the energy transition by 2030, we envision further opportunities, expanding the company portfolio of energy solutions toward clean energies. We are convinced that this renewal strategy with a strong focus in short-term results has a tremendous opportunity to generate value for all our stakeholders.

最後，當我們全面審視全球能源市場以及到 2030 年能源轉型的相關性不斷增強時，我們展望了更多機遇，將公司的能源解決方案組合擴展到清潔能源。我們相信，這種注重短期成果的更新策略將為我們所有利害關係人創造價值的巨大機會。

Before moving on the details of the new strategic plan, let me start by describing our midterm vision for the company in 2030. It's well known that Vaca Muerta has a tremendous potential given the level of recoverable resources that over this year has transformed from a dream into reality.

在詳細介紹新策略計劃之前，讓我先描述一下我們公司 2030 年的中期願景。眾所周知，Vaca Muerta 擁有巨大的潛力，考慮到今年的可採資源水平已從夢想轉變為進入現實。

Based on that strength, we expect to turn into world-class shale player, beating our record in oil and gas production. While at the same time, becoming a relevant exporter of crude oil (inaudible) by 2030. If we manage to do this, we will transform into structural positive free cash flow generator with a strong financial profile, allowing us to continue investing in the long-term opportunities in the future.

基於這項實力，我們期望成為世界一流的頁岩油企業，打破我們的石油和天然氣產量記錄。同時，到2030 年成為相關的原油出口國（聽不清楚）。如果我們能夠做到這一點，我們將轉型為具有強大財務狀況的結構性正自由現金流發生器，使我們能夠繼續投資於長期- 未來的長期機會。

With that vision in mind, we have recently launched the YPF 4x4 program, a 4-pillar plan to deliver our vision. 4x4 represent our ambition to deliver outstanding performance to our stakeholders, multiplying the value of the company in the next 4 years.

考慮到這個願景，我們最近啟動了 YPF 4x4 計劃，這是一個旨在實現我們願景的 4 支柱計劃。 4x4 代表了我們為利害關係人提供卓越績效、在未來 4 年內倍增公司價值的雄心。

Firstly, in the short term, we aim to focus on our most profitable business, Vaca Muerta, which is around twice as profitable as our next investment alternative.

首先，在短期內，我們的目標是專注於我們最賺錢的業務 Vaca Muerta，該業務的獲利能力約為我們下一個投資選擇的兩倍。

Secondly, we expect to actively manage our portfolio with a strict capital allocation discipline. In that sense, we are targeting a significant reduction of our exposure to conventional mature fields during this year.

其次，我們希望以嚴格的資本配置紀律積極管理我們的投資組合。從這個意義上說，我們的目標是今年大幅減少對傳統成熟油田的投資。

In the third place, in order to increase YPF resiliency, we will focus on maximizing upstream and downstream operating efficiency, aiming to becoming a world-class shale player, we are still improving our downstream margin.

第三，為了增加YPF的彈性，我們將專注於最大化上下游營運效率，目標是成為世界一流的頁岩油公司，我們仍在提高下游利潤率。

Finally, our 4 strategic pillar relies on setting the race of our next phase, the monetization of natural gas. To that end, we are planning the construction of an ambitious large-scale LNG project, the unique in Argentina, we won a strategic partner, and other Argentine gas players.

最後，我們的第四個戰略支柱依賴設定下一階段的競賽，即天然氣貨幣化。為此，我們正在計劃建造一個雄心勃勃的大型液化天然氣項目，這在阿根廷是獨一無二的，我們贏得了戰略合作夥伴以及其他阿根廷天然氣參與者。

Now I will go in more detail in each pillar in a few minutes. Our plan is already ongoing. We feel very comfortable with the initial steps achieved so far.

現在我將在幾分鐘內更詳細地介紹每個支柱。我們的計劃已經在進行中。我們對迄今為止所取得的初步成果感到非常滿意。

First of all, since the end of the last year, we have been deploying an active full price strategy, reducing the gap versus international parties.

首先，去年年底以來，我們一直在積極部署全價策略，縮小與國際各方的差距。

Secondly, in January of this year, we returned to international capital markets.

第二，今年1月份，我們重返國際資本市場。

Finally, last week, our Board of Directors approved a new plan for some of our mature conventional field thus initiating our active portfolio management. At the end of the presentation, I will share with you more details about this program.

最後，上週，我們的董事會批准了針對我們一些成熟的傳統領域的新計劃，從而啟動了我們積極的投資組合管理。在演講的最後，我將與大家分享更多關於該計劃的細節。

Let me now walk you through the 4 pillars of our strategic outlook. Deepening our first strategic pillar, given the tremendous potential and increasing unconventional activity achieved so far, when accelerating as much as possible our shale production growth. In that regard, we are planning very ambitious production goal for the next 2 years, targeting an expansion of 24% in 2024, and a further 35% next year, reaching over 160,000 barrels per day of shale production by 2025.

現在讓我向您介紹我們戰略展望的四大支柱。鑑於迄今為止所取得的巨大潛力和不斷增加的非常規活動，在盡可能加速頁岩油產量增長的同時，深化我們的第一個戰略支柱。在這方面，我們正在規劃未來兩年非常雄心勃勃的產量目標，目標是在 2024 年成長 24%，明年再成長 35%，到 2025 年頁岩油產量達到每天 16 萬桶以上。

In order to achieve these goals, we have already secured 3 additional drilling rigs, totaling 15 rigs operating by YPF in Vaca Muerta, 80% of which will be allocated to oil well, align to our strategy of prioritizing oil developments.

為了實現這些目標，我們已經獲得了 3 個額外的鑽機，YPF 在巴卡穆爾塔運營的鑽機總數達到 15 個，其中 80% 將分配給油井，符合我們優先石油開發的戰略。

At the same time, we are moving forward with the development of new blocks to the north and south of our [core hub], moving from one hub in 2023 to 3 hubs in 2024. To unlock the tremendous opportunity of the massive development of Vaca Muerta, the midstream capacity of the Neuquina basin, must be debottleneck.

同時，我們正在推動【核心樞紐】南北新街區的開發，從2023年的1個樞紐發展到2024年的3個樞紐。釋放Vaca大規模發展的巨大機遇Muerta 是Neuquina 盆地的中游容量，必須消除瓶頸。

And to that end, we have already devised and implemented a detailed program based on 3 main projects: the trans-Andean and Vaca Muerta North project consisted in putting existing infrastructure of the trans-Andean oil pipe back online and building a new pipe of around 150 kilometers from our oil core hub to (inaudible). The trans-Andean pipeline resume activity in May of 2023.

為此，我們已經根據三個主要項目制定並實施了詳細計劃：跨安第斯和瓦卡穆爾塔北項目包括將跨安第斯石油管道的現有基礎設施重新投入使用，並建造一條距我們的石油核心樞紐150 公里（聽不清楚）。跨安第斯管道將於 2023 年 5 月恢復活動。

After more than 15 years for being idle, our Vaca Muerta North pipeline became operational last November, offering an additional growth capacity of 110,000 barrels per day. The project is allowing us and other producers are debasing to detect the crude oil produced in the core operation of Vaca Muerta to the trans-Andean pipeline through export to Chile and further north into our Lujan de Cuyo refinery.

在閒置超過 15 年後，我們的 Vaca Muerta North 管道於去年 11 月投入運營，新增產能達 110,000 桶/日。該計畫使我們和其他生產商能夠檢測到 Vaca Muerta 核心作業中生產的原油透過跨安第斯管道出口到智利，並進一步向北進入我們的 Lujan de Cuyo 煉油廠。

The second project involves more than doubling the Del Valle and Norte capacity. Current [meeting] capacity is about 300,000 barrels per day after adding 75,000 barrels per day through the initial stages deployed between 2022 and 2023.

第二個項目涉及將 Del Valle 和 Norte 的產能增加一倍以上。在通過 2022 年至 2023 年部署的初始階段增加每天 75,000 桶之後，目前的[會議]產能約為每天 300,000 桶。

Going forward, the next stages should be adding around 45,000 barrels per day by the end of '24, and remaining 200,000 barrels per day, rest by mid-'25, totaling an additional gross evacuation capacity of 315,000 barrels per day.

展望未來，下一階段應在 24 年底前增加約 45,000 桶/日，剩餘的 200,000 桶/日將在 25 年中期之前停止，總疏散能力總計為 315,000 桶/日。

Finally, the Vaca Muerta South project consists in the construction of a new pipe and export terminal connecting Vaca Muerta to the Atlantic.

最後，瓦卡穆爾塔南計畫包括建造一個連接瓦卡穆爾塔和大西洋的新管道和出口終端。

The project is planned to several stages. The first stage of the project will conduct Loma Campana to the entrance of the exiting (inaudible) network by the fourth quarter of this year. The second stage is expected to be up and running by the third quarter of the 2026, will add around 180,000 barrels per day of evacuation capacity. And the third stage is effected by the end of '27, adding an additional capacity of 180,000 barrels per day.

該項目計劃分幾個階段進行。該計畫的第一階段將於今年第四季將 Loma Campana 引入現有（聽不清楚）網路的入口。第二階段預計將於 2026 年第三季投入運行，每天將增加約 18 萬桶的疏散能力。第三階段將於27年底實施，新增產能18萬桶/日。

So far, YPF has begun the design competition process for the new pipeline and export terminal and obtained the environmental permits for the first stage. Additional, the total capacity of this project could be expanded to more than 700,000 barrels per day by adding pumping station, what would mean that the resolution of all bottlenecks in Vaca Muerta.

目前，YPF已經開始了新管道和出口碼頭的設計競賽程序，並獲得了第一階段的環境許可。此外，透過增設泵站，該專案的總產能可擴大至每天70萬桶以上，這意味著Vaca Muerta的所有瓶頸問題均已解決。

Our second pillar, active portfolio management includes increasing the share of shale production from around 50% to around 80% of our total production will allow us to reduce the average lifting cost by almost 50% by 2025, vis-a-vis 2023.

我們的第二個支柱是積極的投資組合管理，包括將頁岩油產量佔總產量的比例從50% 左右增加到80% 左右，這將使我們能夠在2025 年之前將平均提升成本比2023 年降低近50%。

We will focus on investments with high returns and strict alignment with our core business. Therefore, we plan to exit from some of our mature conventional fields, but will release around $800 million in CapEx to be reallocated primary to shale oil activity. This will result in higher profitability. Our shale oil projects are 2x more profitable than conventional projects and the repayment periods per well are lower than those related to conventional fields.

我們將專注於高回報並與我們的核心業務嚴格結合的投資。因此，我們計劃退出一些成熟的常規油田，但將釋放約 8 億美元的資本支出，主要重新分配給頁岩油活動。這將帶來更高的獲利能力。我們的頁岩油專案的利潤是傳統專案的兩倍，而且每口井的還款期比傳統油田的相關專案短。

Besides, the exit strategy for mature fields will represent a substantial decrease on our lifting cost.

此外，成熟油田的退出策略將大幅降低我們的舉升成本。

Following the same capital allocation discipline, we are reviewing our investment in affiliate companies to ensure their strategy fit and profitably. Therefore, we aim to focus our efforts on companies aligned with our ambition of value generation.

遵循相同的資本配置規則，我們正在審查我們對附屬公司的投資，以確保它們的策略適合併有利可圖。因此，我們的目標是將我們的努力集中在與我們創造價值的雄心一致的公司上。

The third strategic pillar looks forward for maximizing upstream and downstream efficiency. We will match our increased shale oil production with improved efficiency, to maximize our operational performance in order to become a world-class shale player. This will improve the returns of our investments.

第三個戰略支柱著眼於最大化上下游效率。我們將把頁岩油產量的增加與效率的提高相匹配，最大限度地提高我們的營運績效，從而成為世界一流的頁岩油企業。這將提高我們的投資回報。

We have an excellent track record in fracking and drilling. We plan to continue to enhance our industrialization model, and thus, to increase our drilling and fracking speed even further.

我們在水力壓裂和鑽井方面擁有出色的記錄。我們計劃繼續加強我們的工業化模式，從而進一步提高我們的鑽井和壓裂速度。

Therefore, we plan to base our industrialization efficiency on 3 pillars: automatization of operational decision-making through real-time data analytics; introduction of new technology solutions, such as directional tools and Simul-Frac techniques; and eternalization of operational processes to reduce nonproductive execution times.

因此，我們計劃將工業化效率建立在三大支柱之上：透過即時數據分析實現營運決策的自動化；引入新技術解決方案，例如定向工具和同步壓裂技術；營運流程的永恆化，以減少非生產性執行時間。

As a result, we will see our drilling speed in shale oil accelerating in our core hub to more than 310 meters per day and our completion [skill] in shale oil increasing to over 230 (inaudible) per month, both by 2025.

因此，到 2025 年，我們的核心樞紐頁岩油鑽井速度將加快至每天 310 公尺以上，頁岩油完井[技能]將增加至每月 230 多公尺（聽不清楚）。

As part of our downstream efficiency program, we are targeting new efficiencies and productivity goals at our refineries. Therefore, we have ongoing initiatives in order to improve our margin per barrel such as maximizing processing and production levels and reviewing our cost structure, increasing our labor productivity.

作為下游效率計畫的一部分，我們正在為煉油廠設定新的效率和生產力目標。因此，我們不斷採取措施來提高每桶利潤，例如最大限度地提高加工和生產水準、審查成本結構、提高勞動生產力。

By revamping our [toppings], we will reach the highest processing levels from the shale oil of Vaca Muerta since 2015, increasing full production capacity by 1.2 million cubic meter per year and reducing crude oil imports.

透過改造我們的[toppings]，我們將達到自2015年以來Vaca Muerta頁岩油的最高加工水平，每年將全部產能增加120萬立方米，並減少原油進口。

Additionally, our multiyear project aims at reducing the sulfur component of our local [oil] production, aligned with international standards. Also, we are optimizing all of our operations' refinery, we have already review of our global process map, and we are now reviewing each specific process with a continuous improvement mindset.

此外，我們的多年計畫旨在減少當地[石油]生產中的硫成分，與國際標準保持一致。此外，我們正在優化所有營運的煉油廠，我們已經審查了我們的全球流程圖，現在我們正在以持續改進的心態審查每個特定流程。

Particularly, we are optimizing maintenance and planned stoppages. We will increase crude oil processing by more than 10%, and we are also reducing logistics and energy costs, improving our margin per barrel by more than $3.

特別是，我們正在優化維護和規劃停機。我們將把原油加工量提高 10% 以上，同時降低物流和能源成本，每桶利潤提高 3 美元以上。

For our commercial areas, we will continue [betting] on the efforts that made us the customer preference choice. We expect to maintain YPF leadership, maximizing value generation by offering and improve efficiency through digitalization and segmentation.

對於我們的商業領域，我們將繼續[押注]使我們成為客戶首選的努力。我們希望保持 YPF 的領導地位，透過數位化和細分提供服務並提高效率，從而最大限度地創造價值。

Our fourth and last strategic pillar sets the foundation for the monetization of natural gas. It's well known that Vaca Muerta has world-class gas reserve, far exceeding local demand. To capture this opportunity and locking our shale potential, we plan to lead the unique Argentinian LNG project.

我們的第四個也是最後一個戰略支柱為天然氣貨幣化奠定了基礎。眾所周知，瓦卡穆爾塔擁有世界級的天然氣儲量，遠超過當地的需求。為了抓住這個機會並鎖定我們的頁岩潛力，我們計劃領導獨特的阿根廷液化天然氣計畫。

As previously announced the full project targets, total processing capacity between 25 and 30 MTPA, and should represent the key way to place Vaca Muerta shale gas in the global markets, turning YPF and Argentina into a world-class LNG exporter.

正如先前宣布的完整專案目標，總處理能力在 25 至 30 MTPA 之間，這應該是 Vaca Muerta 頁岩氣進入全球市場的關鍵途徑，使 YPF 和阿根廷成為世界級的液化天然氣出口國。

The first stage of the project aims to bring to Argentina an existing floating LNG facility with an initial capacity between 1 and 2 MTPA by 2027.

該計畫第一階段的目標是到 2027 年為阿根廷引進一座現有的浮動液化天然氣設施，初始容量為 1 至 2 MTPA。

The second stage consists in the construction of 2 new floating LNG facilities, representing a capacity for around 8 to 9 MTPA by 2030, which FID is effective by mid-2025 and requires in payments on around $200 million on a gross basis.

第二階段包括興建 2 個新的浮動液化天然氣設施，到 2030 年產能約 8 至 9 MTPA，最終投資決定於 2025 年中期生效，需要支付總額約 2 億美元的款項。

Finally, let me point out the importance of the -- once the project is completed, we estimate an addition of total export revenue of about $15 billion annually to Argentina balance of payments. We expect to own 25% of the total LNG capacity.

最後，讓我指出該項目的重要性——一旦該項目完成，我們估計每年將為阿根廷國際收支增加約150億美元的出口總收入。我們預計將擁有液化天然氣總產能的25%。

Bear in mind that this will be the unique Argentinian LNG project, we are working nowadays in order to lead this project with our strategic partner and engage in the rest of the industry. Thus, we expect to position YPF as a global player, capitalizing on our Vaca Muerta's world-class resources.

請記住，這將是獨特的阿根廷液化天然氣項目，我們現在正在努力與我們的戰略合作夥伴一起領導該項目，並參與該行業的其他領域。因此，我們希望利用我們 Vaca Muerta 的世界級資源，將 YPF 定位為全球參與者。

Before ending our presentation, I would like to provide you with a quick plans of our '24 outlook. In terms of production, considering that it's too early to define the timing of the exit program for our conventional mature field, we cannot provide an overall average annual production guidance. Nevertheless, in '24, we expect our shale oil production to record a new remarkable annual increase of 24%.

在結束我們的演示之前，我想向您提供我們 '24 展望的快速計劃。在產量方面，考慮到目前確定我們常規成熟油田退出計劃的時間還為時過早，我們無法提供整體平均年產量指導。儘管如此，我們預計 2024 年頁岩油產量將創下 24% 的新的顯著年增長率。

Regarding the program described above, let me share with you the key figures of the strategy. We plan to exit from around 50 conventional blocks representing around 90,000 barrels of oil of production per day, and around 6.5 million cubic meters of natural gas production per day. Based on '23 figures, that represent around 60% of the conventional oil production and around 40% of the conventional natural gas production. Moreover, these blocks account to less than 1% of YPF 2023 total [ABDA] required (inaudible) investment of around $800 million.

關於上述計劃，我跟大家分享一下該策略的關鍵人物。我們計劃退出約 50 個常規區塊，這些區塊的石油日產量約 9 萬桶，天然氣日產量約 650 萬立方公尺。根據 23 年的數據，這約佔常規石油產量的 60% 和常規天然氣產量的 40% 左右。此外，這些區塊僅佔 YPF 2023 年 [ABDA] 所需（聽不清楚）投資總額（約 8 億美元）的不到 1%。

Switching to our CapEx '24, we are targeting to invest around $5 billion during the year. These investments will once again be concentrated in our shale developments, where we plan to deploy $3 billion. Within the upstream investment, we shall invest 75% in our oil development. And the natural gas strategy, we will have further spend in the midterm. And within our unconventional CapEx plan, will be allocated around 30% on facilities.

轉向我們的 24 年資本支出，我們的目標是年內投資約 50 億美元。這些投資將再次集中在我們的頁岩油開發上，我們計劃在該領域部署 30 億美元。上游投資中，75%投資於石油開發。至於天然氣戰略，我們將在中期進一步支出。在我們的非常規資本支出計畫中，將分配約 30% 的設施。

On the downstream segment, we will continue with a multiyear investment plan to revamp our La Plata and Lujan de Cuyo refineries to comply the new fuel specification, the adaptation of our refineries to process lighter crudes and the 3 main (inaudible) oil projects.

在下游領域，我們將繼續實施一項多年投資計劃，改造我們的拉普拉塔和盧揚德庫約煉油廠，以符合新的燃料規範，調整我們的煉油廠以處理較輕的原油和3個主要（聽不清楚）石油項目。

Finally, in terms of EBITDA for 2024, we expect a significant increase back on the new local pricing strategy, cost efficiency and shale oil production growth. However, the EBITDA recovery will now be enough to compensate the deployment of our aggressive plan, our regular interest and payment, resulting in a negative free cash flow this year as we shall continue prioritizing finance and prudency in a challenging macro environment full of uncertainty, we commit to maintain a nil leverage ratio below 2023 levels on a range of 1.5 and 1.7x.

最後，就 2024 年 EBITDA 而言，我們預計新的本地定價策略、成本效率和頁岩油產量成長將大幅回升。然而，EBITDA 的復甦現在足以補償我們積極計劃的部署、我們的定期利息和付款，導致今年自由現金流為負，因為我們將在充滿不確定性的充滿挑戰的宏觀環境中繼續優先考慮財務和審慎，我們承諾將零槓桿率維持在 2023 年水準以下 1.5 至 1.7 倍的範圍內。

Before ending our presentation and jumping into the Q&A, let me highlight the specific targets by 2027.

在結束我們的演講並進入問答環節之前，讓我強調一下 2027 年的具體目標。

On the upstream business, we expect to achieve a shale oil production of around 250,000 barrel per day by 2027, and we will do it by reshaping our portfolio, increasing from 50% to 80% our shale oil production based on the remarkable efficiency achieved so far that led to breakeven price below $40 per barrel in a constant currency, assuming a long-term cost of capital. Therefore, we expect our business model and get a [strategic] focus on the monetization of Vaca Muerta's oil to remain resilient among changing global dynamics.

在上游業務方面，我們預計到2027年，頁岩油產量將達到每天25萬桶左右，我們將透過重塑我們的產品組合來實現這一目標，在所取得的顯著效率的基礎上，將我們的頁岩油產量從50%增加到80%。假設長期資本成本，以固定貨幣計算，這導致損益平衡價格低於每桶 40 美元。因此，我們期望我們的商業模式並將[策略]重點放在瓦卡穆爾塔石油的貨幣化上，以便在不斷變化的全球動態中保持彈性。

On the downstream segment, we are targeting a challenging margin improvement of [$3] per barrel by 2027. And moreover, we plan to close the gap between local and international prices while maintaining our market share in fuel sales at around 50% on the gas and power business by 2027 which should be ending the third phase of our global-scale LNG plant, preparing ourselves for next phase of YPF strategy. And at the same time, committing to reduce our carbon footprint by reaching a 25% of our energy metrics from renewal resources.

在下游領域，我們的目標是到2027 年將利潤率提高到每桶[3 美元]。此外，我們計劃縮小本地和國際價格之間的差距，同時將我們在天然氣燃料銷售中的市場份額保持在50% 左右到 2027 年，我們的全球規模液化天然氣工廠第三階段將結束，為 YPF 策略的下一階段做好準備。同時，我們承諾將 25% 的能源指標來自再生資源，從而減少我們的碳足跡。

Finally, let me remark that we are targeting this challenging goal, prioritizing a strict capital allocation discipline and an active portfolio management, focusing in profitable and strategic opportunities.

最後，我要指出的是，我們正在瞄準這一具有挑戰性的目標，優先考慮嚴格的資本配置紀律和積極的投資組合管理，並專注於獲利和策略機會。

We are extremely focused and proud about YPF future. I'm totally sure that we will achieve this ambition strategy. (inaudible) -- Federico and Max, we are now open to take questions.

我們對 YPF 的未來感到非常專注和自豪。我完全確信我們將實現這項雄心勃勃的策略。 （聽不清楚）－Federico 和 Max，我們現在可以回答問題。

Thank you, Horacio, and thanks, everyone, for listening to our presentation. Now we may start with a Q&A session.

謝謝奧拉西奧，也謝謝大家聆聽我們的演講。現在我們可以從問答環節開始。

Our first question comes from Luiz Carvalho from UBS.

我們的第一個問題來自瑞銀集團的路易斯卡瓦略。

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes. We can hear you. Yes.

是的。我們能聽到你的聲音。是的。

Okay. Perfect. Thank you for the very interesting presentation that you just provided with lots of details and pleasure to meet you, Horacio, Federico, Maximiliano and all the IR team.

好的。完美的。感謝您剛才提供的非常有趣的演示，其中提供了許多細節，很高興見到您、Horacio、Federico、Maximiliano 和所有 IR 團隊。

If I may -- I'll state -- to start to 2 questions here. The first one is, maybe Horacio, if you can share a couple of thoughts on the relationship between the company and the controlling shareholder, that has been, I would say, one of the main topics of attention from investors in most of the Latin American companies. And of course, YPF is super embedded in this process. So I would like to understand about the relationship between the company, the management and the controlling shareholder.

如果可以的話——我會說——在這裡開始回答兩個問題。第一個是，也許Horacio，您能否分享一些關於公司與控股股東之間關係的想法，我想說，這一直是大多數拉丁美洲投資者關注的主要話題之一。公司。當然，YPF 超級嵌入在這個過程中。所以我想了解一下公司、管理階層、控股股東之間的關係。

The second one, I'm not going to be too specific, but you presented a very broad plan with lots of details. I just would like to know from your perspective, what are the main challenges that you face over the -- to the next 2 years, will be the -- let say, the price adjustments on the downstream, bottlenecks on the onshore production. So just trying to understand where you see the main challenges within this plan.

第二個，我不會太具體，但你提出了一個非常廣泛的計劃，其中包含許多細節。我只是想從您的角度了解，未來兩年您面臨的主要挑戰是什麼，例如下游的價格調整、陸上生產的瓶頸。因此，我只是想了解該計劃中的主要挑戰。

Okay. Thank you, Luiz, for your question. First question, YPF as you know, is a major oil gas company in Argentina and is the leader of the energy sector. Therefore, has an important role in energy sector. All we work with -- all the governments, all the states and all the unions and all the industry. And so I think we are working very hard and very well with all the sector so far.

好的。謝謝路易斯的提問。第一個問題，大家知道，YPF是阿根廷一家大型油氣公司，是能源領域的龍頭企業。因此，在能源領域中具有重要作用。我們合作的所有人——所有政府、所有州、所有工會和所有行業。因此，我認為到目前為止，我們與整個行業的合作非常努力且進展順利。

In the second question, you are saying what I am -- what are my thoughts, there are several. And this program is, if you see it's like, it's all tight, it's all tight. This year, we are focusing this venture of the mature fields and also to build the debottlenecking in Vaca Muerta, what is the Vaca Muerta Sur, the Vaca Muerta Sur oil pipe. And with this oil pipe, as I mentioned before, it will be the final debottlenecking of Vaca Muerta.

在第二個問題中，你說的是我是什麼——我的想法是什麼，有幾個。這個程序，如果你看到它，它很緊，它很緊。今年，我們將重點放在成熟油田的投資上，並在瓦卡穆爾塔（Vaca Muerta Sur）、瓦卡穆爾塔蘇爾（Vaca Muerta Sur）油管建設上消除瓶頸。正如我之前提到的，有了這個油管，這將是瓦卡·穆爾塔的最終消除瓶頸。

So all the industry will be available to only invest and increase the production.

因此，所有產業都只能投資和增加產量。

I don't know, Luiz, if we answered your question. Okay.

路易斯，我不知道我們是否回答了你的問題。好的。

So our next question comes from Bruno Montanari from Morgan Stanley. (Operator Instructions)

我們的下一個問題來自摩根士丹利的布魯諾·蒙塔納裡。 （操作員說明）

Thank you for the presentation. And very interesting to see the details of the new strategic plan, very exciting growth ahead. Some changes with the divestments as well.

謝謝您的介紹。看到新戰略計劃的細節非常有趣，未來的成長非常令人興奮。撤資也帶來了一些改變。

There are 2 questions. One, I wanted to explore a little bit, the divestment effort. So if we think about, say, the next few years through 2027, is there a financial target you expect to raise from selling the upstream and these affiliated companies? So any type of financial magnitude you could share with us would be super interesting.

有 2 個問題。第一，我想探討撤資的努力。那麼，如果我們考慮一下，比如說，到 2027 年的未來幾年，您希望透過出售上游和這些附屬公司來籌集財務目標嗎？因此，您可以與我們分享的任何類型的財務規模都會非常有趣。

I found [good news], that it's a lot of production, you're willing to divest, but yet, it's 1% of EBITDA only. So are you seeing interest from third parties to look at those assets? And are those Argentine companies? So what can they do better that would make the market attracted to the assets?

我發現[好消息]，這是大量的生產，你願意剝離，但它只佔 EBITDA 的 1%。那麼您是否看到第三方有興趣查看這些資產？那些是阿根廷公司嗎？那麼他們可以做些什麼更好的事情來吸引市場對這些資產的興趣呢？

And then the second question is about the LNG project. I understand this is very long term, and the bulk of the CapEx is going to come in the outer years. But can you share with us your expected IRR levels for investing in these projects, vis-a-vis investing in your core sale of hubs? So I wanted to try to understand what the differential of returns are on LNG.

第二個問題是關於液化天然氣計畫的。我知道這是一個非常長期的過程，大部分資本支出將在未來幾年內發生。但您能否與我們分享一下，相對於投資於您的核心銷售樞紐，您投資這些項目的預期 IRR 水準？所以我想嘗試了解液化天然氣的回報差異。

Okay. The first one is a little longer. But I can say for the mature fields, we think that we are going to finish the process during this year. And they are -- from now on, we see a lot of interest in Argentina for different -- more small companies than YPF, and it will be a good process and there will be very transparency with the bank. And we envision that this year, we will finish all the process. And that will be very important for YPF to increase our profitable by dollar.

好的。第一個有點長。但我可以說，對於成熟的領域，我們認為我們將在今年內完成這個過程。從現在開始，我們看到阿根廷對不同的小公司比 YPF 更感興趣，這將是一個很好的過程，銀行將非常透明。我們預計今年將完成所有流程。這對 YPF 增加美元利潤非常重要。

The second question in LNG IRR, I cannot give you because this is -- I can tell you that it's very competitive in the worldwide scale. That is the only thing, and I apologize but I cannot tell you exactly the figure number.

液化天然氣內部報酬率的第二個問題，我不能給你，因為這是－我可以告訴你，它在全球範圍內非常有競爭力。這是唯一的事情，我很抱歉，但我無法告訴你確切的數字。

The other thing, I think it's important for you to know, that we call the Argentine LNG project because it will be done by all the Argentine industry. So we will get a good scale, economical scale in all the infrastructure and all the investment. So that's why we make this kind of project, a bigger project than YPF can manage but they will be for all the Argentine gas players. And so we improved the efficiency and the internal rate of return for everybody.

另一件事，我認為您知道這一點很重要，我們稱之為阿根廷液化天然氣項目，因為它將由整個阿根廷行業來完成。因此，我們將在所有基礎設施和所有投資方面獲得良好的規模、經濟的規模。這就是我們開展此類項目的原因，這是一個比 YPF 能夠管理的更大的項目，但它們將面向所有阿根廷天然氣參與者。因此，我們提高了每個人的效率和內部報酬率。

Thank you so much, Horacio. Our next question comes from Walter Chiarvesio from Santander. (Operator Instructions)

非常感謝你，奧拉西奧。我們的下一個問題來自桑坦德銀行的沃爾特·基亞維西奧。 （操作員說明）

We still cannot hear you. We can test. Okay. So you may continue now.

我們仍然聽不到你的聲音。我們可以測試一下。好的。所以你現在可以繼續。

Yes, sorry.

是的，抱歉。

Now we can hear you.

現在我們可以聽到你的聲音了。

Okay, sorry. Probably digging deeper on details, 2 things. One is related to the exit in the mature fields is I probably missed the details, but in your comments, but this is partnering with new companies, doesn't mean that YPF will get out totally from the fields, only that CapEx will be done by partners.

哦抱歉。可能會更深入地挖掘細節，有兩件事。一是與成熟領域的退出有關，我可能錯過了細節，但在你的評論中，但這是與新公司合作，並不意味著YPF將完全退出該領域，只是資本支出會完成由合作夥伴。

Secondly, this plan entails returning blocks to the provinces because there were news in the media regarding complaints of governor saying that they wouldn't accept that companies or YPF specifically leaves the blocks such like that. And if that entails for example, environmental liability costs or things that we should take into account. And this $800 million [capital] release is for the next year, I mean, it's $800 million per year. I missed that. That is on one side.

其次，該計劃需要將街區歸還給各省，因為有媒體報告稱，州長抱怨稱，他們不會接受公司或 YPF 專門將街區歸還給各省。例如，如果這需要環境責任成本或我們應該考慮的事情。這 8 億美元[資本]是為明年釋放的，我的意思是，每年 8 億美元。我錯過了。那是一方面。

And the last part of my question on CapEx is downstream $900 million in 2024, is that -- that should be [standing] over the years? So this -- the last part of the revamping that you have been making since last year?

我關於資本支出的問題的最後一部分是 2024 年下游 9 億美元，這應該是[持續]多年嗎？這是你們去年以來進行的改造的最後一部分？

Okay. Thank you very much for your question, Walter. I will pass to Max because you make -- ask a big detail. The only thing I will answer you that this is not like farming or is going out of the areas or the fields, okay? It will be the different way.

好的。非常感謝你的提問，沃特。我會轉給馬克斯，因為你提出了一個重要的細節。我唯一會回答你的是，這不像農業，也不像走出地區或田野，好嗎？這將是不同的方式。

Also, there is something that you are asking that we are always discussing with the governance and the unions, and we are in very, very good shape. The -- what you read in the newspaper is what you read in the newspaper, but it's like there could be different ways to go out of the area. There could be selling some and also, I don't know the name in English, (inaudible)?

此外，還有一些你問的問題，我們一直在與管理階層和工會討論，我們的狀態非常非常好。你在報紙上讀到的就是在報紙上讀到的，但離開該地區可能有不同的方式。可能有賣一些，而且我不知道英文名字（聽不清楚）？

Reverting.

恢復。

It's not reverting because it's transferred to some province company. And the other you say that we take into account everything in the selling, okay? This our goal and the way to go out is a clean exit.

它不會恢復，因為它已轉移到某個省公司。另一個你說我們考慮到銷售中的一切，好嗎？這是我們的目標，也是乾淨的退出方式。

So now for more detail, I pass to Max.

現在，我將向 Max 詢問更多詳細資訊。

Thank you, Horacio. Yes, definitely. We are still -- we are doing the prework. And in that prework, we're going to hire a bank. We are in the process of finishing that up, and we will know who we are going to be working with within the next 1 or 2 weeks, our expectations are to go out to the market by the end of March. And during the third quarter, we should have offers. We're going to test the market. We should have the offers. And like Horacio mentioned, we want to close these transactions within this year.

謝謝你，奧拉西奧。當然是。我們仍在做準備工作。在前期工作中，我們將聘請一家銀行。我們正在完成這項工作，我們將在接下來的 1 到 2 週內知道我們將與誰合作，我們的預期是在 3 月底之前上市。在第三季度，我們應該會有報價。我們將測試市場。我們應該有優惠。正如奧拉西奧所提到的，我們希望在今年內完成這些交易。

So with that said, I think that which blocks we're going to sell to the market or other players in which we're going to revert back to the provinces, it's confidential. But like Horacio commented, we're going to seek either a clean exit when we transfer to other players or we're going to negotiate with the province in order to comply to whatever outstanding (foreign language) commitment we have.

話雖如此，我認為我們將向市場或其他參與者出售哪些區塊，我們將在其中將其歸還給各省，這是保密的。但就像奧拉西奧評論的那樣，我們要么在轉會到其他球員時尋求乾淨的退出，要么我們將與省政府進行談判，以遵守我們所做的任何未完成的（外語）承諾。

Sorry, I don't know if there was another question, yes, regarding downstream CapEx. I think that, yes, this year, we're still finishing up the big investments that we are doing in our 2 main refineries are to adapt those to the low sulfur content. And this we're going to finished by the -- and gasoline by the end of this year and diesel by the end -- by next year. And also adapting our refineries to the new reality, which is the crude of Vaca Muerta, it's growing. So we need to be prepared in order to be efficient in our refineries, we need to be prepared to refine lighter crude oil.

抱歉，我不知道是否還有其他問題，是的，關於下游資本支出。我認為，是的，今年我們仍在完成對兩家主要煉油廠的大規模投資，以適應低硫含量。我們將在今年年底前完成汽油，在明年年底前完成柴油。我們的煉油廠也適應了新的現實，瓦卡穆爾塔的原油，它正在成長。因此，我們需要做好準備，以便提高煉油廠的效率，我們需要做好精煉輕質原油的準備。

So that's why the level of CapEx is still at those levels that you commented this year, but sometime down the road in the next -- it should go lower to the $500 million per year. That's not including the midstream efforts. As Horacio commented a couple of minutes ago during the presentation, we're going to -- we are still in the process of debottlenecking in Vaca Muerta and those bring -- those have additional CapEx efforts in particularly in Vaca Muerta Sur and the Vaca Muerta Sur system.

這就是為什麼今年的資本支出水平仍處於您評論的水平，但在未來的某個時候——它應該會降低到每年 5 億美元。這還不包括中游的努力。正如Horacio 幾分鐘前在演講中評論的那樣，我們將——我們仍在瓦卡穆爾塔消除瓶頸的過程中，這些帶來——那些有額外的資本支出努力，特別是在瓦卡穆爾塔蘇爾和瓦卡穆爾塔蘇爾系統。

Thank you, Horacio, and thank you, Max. And thank you, Walter, for the question.

謝謝你，奧拉西奧，謝謝你，馬克斯。謝謝沃特提出的問題。

(Operator Instructions) And our next question comes from Daniel Guardiola from BTG Pactual. (Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）我們的下一個問題來自 BTG Pactual 的 Daniel Guardiola。 （操作員說明）

Thank you, Margarita. And great to meet you Horacio, Federico, Maximiliano.

謝謝你，瑪格麗塔。很高興見到你們奧拉西奧、費德里科、馬克西米利亞諾。

Okay. Great. I have a couple of questions, and one is regarding the very comprehensive strategic plan that you just announced. And I wanted to know if within that plan, if you are including inorganic growth in Vaca Muerta. And being more specific, I would like to know if you're taking a look at the assets that Exxon is currently disposing in Vaca Muerta. So that will be my first question.

好的。偉大的。我有幾個問題，其中一個是關於您剛剛宣布的非常全面的策略計劃。我想知道在該計劃中是否包括瓦卡穆爾塔的無機生長。更具體地說，我想知道您是否正在查看埃克森美孚目前在瓦卡穆爾塔處置的資產。這是我的第一個問題。

My second question is related to the debottlenecking projects that I mentioned Horacio, many projects to evacuate oil from Vaca Muerta to the Atlantic Shore and to eventually further increase the exports of oil. And I wanted to know what are the main risks that you think you're going to face when trying to deploy all these new infrastructure?

我的第二個問題與我提到的奧拉西奧消除瓶頸項目有關，許多項目旨在將石油從瓦卡穆爾塔疏散到大西洋海岸，並最終進一步增加石油出口。我想知道您認為在嘗試部署所有這些新基礎架構時將面臨哪些主要風險？

And connected to this, you did mention now the project Vaca Muerta Sur. But I learned this week, you know that (inaudible) announcing the [Tripica] project. And I wanted to know if those 2 [place] are complementary, if they are competing with each other or if both are going to happen.

與此相關的是，您現在確實提到了 Vaca Muerta Sur 專案。但我本週了解到，您知道（聽不清楚）宣布了 [Tripica] 項目。我想知道這兩個[地方]是否互補，是否相互競爭，或者兩者是否都會發生。

And just after one, if I may squeeze. Can you share with us what is the expected trajectory of your total EBITDA generation for the next 3, 4 years?

就在一場之後，請容許我擠一下。您能否與我們分享您未來 3、4 年 EBITDA 總額的預期軌跡是什麼？

Okay. Thank you, Daniel, for your 3 questions, 2 questions. Okay. The -- sorry, I'm looking for your video, and I was not looking at the video that you see me, okay? So they are [cheating] me here.

好的。謝謝丹尼爾提出 3 個問題，2 個問題。好的。抱歉，我正在尋找你的視頻，但我沒有看你看到我的視頻，好嗎？所以他們在這裡[欺騙]我。

Okay. The first question. We are here all the management, the new and all the management that we are here. Our goal is to maximize the value of all the shareholders. Therefore, we are growing in Vaca Muerta organic or inorganic. If the inorganic, has more internal rate of return than the organic, we are going to follow that to improve the profitability of our shareholders. That is the first question.

好的。第一個問題。我們所有的管理人員都在這裡，新的和所有的管理人員都在這裡。我們的目標是全體股東價值最大化。因此，我們在 Vaca Muerta 種植有機或無機作物。如果無機企業的內部報酬率高於有機企業，我們將遵循這一點來提高股東的獲利能力。這是第一個問題。

The second question was about the debottleneck. And you see the (inaudible) and Vaca Muerta Sur. The Vaca Muerta Sur is the one that we are going to follow, and there are all the industry that is follow us because it's a big pipeline, they can improve the capacity to 800,000 barrels per day. And also it will be in a new port that we can sell the vessel of 2 million barrels per day, so reducing the discount of the crude oil for export. So we are focusing on this project.

第二個問題是關於去瓶頸的。您會看到（聽不清楚）和 Vaca Muerta Sur。 Vaca Muerta Sur 是我們要關注的管道，所有行業都在關注我們，因為這是一條大管道，他們可以將產能提高到每天 80 萬桶。而且在一個新的港口，我們可以出售每天200萬桶的船，從而減少出口原油的折扣。所以我們專注於這個項目。

The third question, and thank you for that question because if not, Federico were not talking so far. So I pass through Federico.

第三個問題，謝謝你提出這個問題，因為如果沒有的話，費德里科到目前為止還沒有發言。所以我經過費德里科。

Daniel, on EBITDA, let's say, we expect this year to be stronger than last year, considering the increases in prices and also considering that within this year, we should have an overall cost measured in dollar terms lower than last year. But as I said, we are expecting a stronger EBITDA for 2024.

丹尼爾，就 EBITDA 而言，我們預計今年將強於去年，考慮到價格的上漲，並考慮到今年內，我們以美元計算的總體成本應該會低於去年。但正如我所說，我們預計 2024 年 EBITDA 將會更加強勁。

Thank you, Horacio, and thank you, Federico. Our next question comes from Guido (inaudible) from [Alaria]. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，奧拉西奧，謝謝你，費德里科。我們的下一個問題來自 [Alaria] 的 Guido（聽不清楚）。 （操作員說明）

Okay. So we may move on to the next person and then come back to Guido. Our next question comes from Marina Mertens from Latin Securities. (Operator Instructions)

好的。所以我們可以繼續討論下一個人，然後再回到 Guido。我們的下一個問題來自拉丁證券公司的瑪麗娜·梅爾滕斯。 （操作員說明）

Thank you. Thank you for the presentation.

謝謝。謝謝您的介紹。

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

You can hear me?

你聽得到我？

Yes, go ahead.

好，去吧。

Okay. Okay. Perfect. I have 2 questions. So the first one, given the conventional assets currently account for roughly half of YPF's crude oil production, and then they would eventually be exiting your portfolio. What changes in the supply strategy of the refineries after this divestment?

好的。好的。完美的。我有 2 個問題。因此，第一個，鑑於常規資產目前約佔 YPF 原油產量的一半，然後它們最終將退出您的投資組合。這次撤資後煉廠供應策略有何變化？

And the second one is considering that the peso has strengthened over this first quarter, where do prices advance stand in terms of our parity? And what trends are you observing costs?

第二個是考慮到比索在第一季走強，就我們的平價而言，價格上漲的情況如何？您觀察到哪些成本趨勢？

The first question I think is the production of the conventional that the mature field is 60% of the conventional, 60% of all the production. And we will balance with the growth of Vaca Muerta, you will see in future that we surpassed in the future. I'm not saying when, easily than production.

我認為第一個問題是常規的產量，成熟領域是常規的60%，佔全部產量的60%。我們會隨著Vaca Muerta的成長而平衡，你會看到我們在未來超越。我不是說什麼時候，比生產容易。

The second question, remember, when you told that there is a reduction in the churn rate, you are talking about the blue or the CCL. The other is not reducing, its increasing 2% per month. So know that there is a change in that way. The -- we are, as I mentioned in the presentation, we are close. We envision that during this year, we will reach the international markets.

第二個問題，請記住，當您說客戶流失率降低時，您談論的是藍色或 CCL。另一個沒有減少，每月增加2%。所以要知道這種方式有改變。正如我在演講中提到的，我們已經很接近了。我們預計今年內我們將進入國際市場。

And with the -- I don't know, I think there is something more you're talking about the operating cost, if I'm not wrong, okay? Yes.

我不知道，如果我沒記錯的話，我認為您還談論了營運成本，好嗎？是的。

Yes.

是的。

In the operating cost, if you see average year-by-year, we are going to reduce. But if you see next year when we are going out of the mature field the reduction of cost per barrel will be important, I would say.

在營運成本方面，如果你看到逐年平均，我們將會降低。但我想說，如果明年我們走出成熟領域，每桶成本的降低將會很重要。

Thank you, Horacio. And thank you, Marina, for the question. Our next question comes from David [Parvo] of Puente. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你，奧拉西奧。謝謝瑪麗娜提出的問題。我們的下一個問題來自 Puente 的 David [Parvo]。 （操作員說明）

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

Perfect. Well, thank you for having me. Most of my questions have been answered, but I have one regarding maybe the previous one. I was -- prices against import parity. Are you expecting to -- are you targeting a gap to the import parity for 2024. That's the first question.

完美的。嗯，謝謝你邀請我。我的大部分問題都已得到解答，但我還有一個問題可能與前一個問題有關。我是－相對於進口平價的價格。您是否期望—您的目標是在 2024 年實現與進口平價的差距。這是第一個問題。

And the second one is, what are the stages you need to follow in order for the LNG project to be a reality, let's say, like what are the different steps that becomes a reality.

第二個問題是，為了讓液化天然氣計畫成為現實，需要遵循哪些階段，例如成為現實需要哪些不同的步驟。

I didn't understand at the beginning it was here something that I couldn't hear very well between the price. There was one word I couldn't hear.

一開始我不明白，這是我在價格之間聽不清楚的東西。有一句話我聽不見。

I think he was asking if we are targeting a specific gap between prices and the import parity.

我認為他是在問我們是否針對價格與進口平價之間的具體差距。

That will be our commercial policy. Sorry, I cannot give you because if not the other (inaudible) and the other action they will know what will be our target. We are focusing to reach during the year, the export parity of crude because Argentina is supportive of crude and our ceiling is the import parity product and our show will be to increase for all the shareholders, the margin of the refinery. This is our show -- sorry, show, and that's why we are here. And in the LNG detail, I will pass to Max that he was involved a lot in projects.

這將是我們的商業政策。抱歉，我不能告訴你，因為如果不是其他（聽不清楚）和其他行動，他們就會知道我們的目標是什麼。我們的重點是在今年達到原油出口平價，因為阿根廷支持原油，我們的上限是進口平價產品，我們的表現將是為所有股東增加煉油廠的利潤。這是我們的節目——抱歉，節目，這就是我們來這裡的原因。在液化天然氣的詳細資料中，我將告訴馬克斯，他參與了許多計畫。

Thank you, Horacio. So the next steps in the LNG project we are moving into the [FEED] stage. We need to develop the engineering. There are several packages of engineering. So during most of this year and most of -- yes, a big part of next year, we're going to be working on engineering. We are targeting to FID the first stage of our project by mid or second half of 2025.

謝謝你，奧拉西奧。因此，液化天然氣計畫的下一步我們將進入 [FEED] 階段。我們需要開發工程。有幾個工程包。因此，在今年的大部分時間裡，以及明年的大部分時間裡，我們將致力於工程設計。我們的目標是在 2025 年中或下半年完成專案第一階段的最終投資決定。

In parallel, there are many things that need to move forward. Of course, we're going to be opened for additional partners. Also, we're going to be working on the project financing and in parallel, also a, there's a lot of permitting and environmental pre-work that needs to be performed. So I think that all of this is what we're going to be working on the next 1.5 years, 18 months or so.

同時，還有許多事情需要向前邁進。當然，我們將開放更多的合作夥伴。此外，我們將致力於專案融資，同時，還有大量的許可和環境前期工作需要進行。所以我認為所有這些都是我們在未來 1.5 年 18 個月左右的時間裡將要開展的工作。

Thank you, Horacio and Max. Since we are -- we have been extending some minutes more. We are going to take the last question. So the last question will come from Leo Marcondes from Bank of America. (Operator Instructions)

謝謝你們，奧拉西奧和馬克斯。因為我們已經延長了幾分鐘。我們將回答最後一個問題。最後一個問題將由美國銀行的 Leo Marcondes 提出。 （操作員說明）

Can you hear me?

你聽得到我嗎？

Yes, we can hear you.

是的，我們能聽到你的聲音。

Okay. Okay. Great. So my first question is regarding the lifting costs. You guys showed to us that you expect reduction in lifting costs at the conventional assets to $16 from $25 per barrel, right? So how do you guys expect to decrease these lifting costs via potential divestment and keep the best conventional assets? Or do you expect to sell your entire conventional asset base?

好的。好的。偉大的。所以我的第一個問題是關於起重成本。你們向我們表明，你們預計傳統資產的成本將從每桶 25 美元降至 16 美元，對嗎？那麼，你們預計如何透過潛在的撤資來降低這些提昇成本並保留最好的傳統資產呢？或者您希望出售整個傳統資產基礎？

My second question here is more of a follow-up here on the LNG question. Just to understand maybe a bit better. We understand that you guys still need a regulatory framework. So you guys can move on with the FID and so on, right? But do you guys have already started discussing this with the government or something like this? Or is it still a very initial phase so far?

我的第二個問題更多的是關於液化天然氣問題的後續問題。只是為了更好地理解。我們知道你們仍然需要一個監管框架。所以你們可以繼續進行 FID 等工作，對嗎？但是你們已經開始與政府討論這個問題或類似的事情了嗎？或者說到目前為止還處於非常初級的階段？

Okay. I will pass to Max, but first, I will tell you that the reduction in (technical difficulty)

好的。我將轉給 Max，但首先，我會告訴你（技術難度）的減少

Good. Hello. Okay. I'll resume. I'll start over. Sorry for the technical inconvenience.

好的。你好。好的。我會繼續。我會重新開始。對於技術上的不便，我們深表歉意。

But Horacio, you put it together very good. It's a combination. First, the impact of selling the mature fields. That doesn't mean that we are not going to have conventional projects. We're just going to keep the ones, I wouldn't say the better ones, but the most profitable and also it's not only about profitability, but also materiality. We're going to keep those projects and we're going to develop. And those we think we can add value, and also hard work and efficiencies in our unconventional field. So it's a combination of those 2 factors.

但是奧拉西奧，你把它們組合得很好。這是一個組合。一是成熟田出售的影響。這並不意味著我們不會有傳統的項目。我們只會保留那些，我不會說更好的，而是最有利可圖的，而且這不僅涉及盈利能力，還涉及重要性。我們將保留這些項目並進行開發。以及我們認為可以增加價值的領域，以及我們非常規領域的努力和效率。所以這是這兩個因素的結合。

Regarding the -- of course, yes, thank you for asking. I forgot when I was talking before about what we're going to be working on in parallel. Of course, the bill -- sorry, the LNG project needs long-term visibility and long-term visibility means that -- sorry, means long-term visibility and also our tax packages that is competitive at a global level.

關於——當然，是的，謝謝你的提問。我忘記了我之前談論過我們將同時進行的工作。當然，該法案——抱歉，液化天然氣項目需要長期可見性，而長期可見性意味著——抱歉，意味著長期可見性以及我們在全球範圍內具有競爭力的稅收方案。

The bill that the government is working on, I think it provides for both -- and definitely, this -- we will need to have it in place to have FID. Otherwise, it's going to be very challenging to have a profitable project also, not necessary to comment that project financing would be off the table, I think, if we cannot provide for this long-term visibility.

政府正在製定的法案，我認為它對這兩方面都有規定——而且肯定是這一點——我們需要將其落實到位才能進行最終投資決定。否則，擁有一個盈利的專案也將非常具有挑戰性，我認為，如果我們不能提供這種長期的可見性，就沒有必要評論專案融資將被排除在外。

But there is like an agreement between all the governments and also the national government to pass those law to increase the investment in Argentina. And LNG, I can tell you that it's like the project, all the politicians, all the companies for Argentina. So we are positive that we will end up with a good result.

但所有政府和國家政府之間都達成了一項協議，透過這些法律來增加對阿根廷的投資。至於液化天然氣，我可以告訴你，這就像阿根廷的計畫、所有政治人物、所有公司一樣。因此，我們堅信最終會取得好結果。

Thank you so much, Max and Horacio. We apologize, everyone, for the technical inconvenience. And thank you for joining today's presentation.

非常感謝馬克斯和奧拉西奧。對於技術上給您帶來的不便，我們深表歉意。感謝您參加今天的演講。

Keep in mind that we have uploaded the full complete presentation at our website, you may find there. Thank you for joining today. Please, we can close today's presentation. Thank you so much. Have a good day.

請記住，我們已在我們的網站上上傳了完整的演示文稿，您可以在那裡找到。感謝您今天加入。我們可以結束今天的演示了。太感謝了。祝你有美好的一天。