XP Inc (XP) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

(audio in progress) to our second quarter 2025 earnings call. Today's presentation will be led by our CEO Thiago Maffra; and our CFO, Victor Mansur' who will both be available for the Q&A session right after the presentation, and we will address them in order received. We also offer the option of simultaneous translation to Portuguese. If you'd like to activate it, please click the button below.

（音訊播放中）我們將召開 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。今天的演講將由我們的執行長 Thiago Maffra 和財務長 Victor Mansur 主持；演講結束後，他們將參加問答環節，我們將按收到問題的順序進行解答。我們也提供葡萄牙語同聲傳譯服務。如果您想啟動它，請點擊下面的按鈕。

Before we begin, please refer to our legal disclaimers on page 2 where we provide additional information regarding forward-looking statements. You can also find more information in the SEC filing section of our IR website.

在開始之前，請參閱第 2 頁的法律免責聲明，其中提供了有關前瞻性陳述的更多資訊。您也可以在我們投資者關係網站的美國證券交易委員會備案部分找到更多資訊。

Thank you, Andrea. Good evening, everyone. I appreciate you all joining us today for the second quarter 2025 earnings call. So, half a year is already behind us, but there's much more to come. We are still working hard, I would say, in an obsessive way to keep evolving our client's journey experience and product offering.

謝謝你，安德里亞。各位晚上好。感謝各位今天參加2025年第二季財報電話會議。半年已經過去了，但未來還有更長的時間。我們仍在努力工作，甚至可以說近乎痴迷地努力工作，不斷改進客戶的體驗和產品。

2025 has demonstrated to be more challenged than we estimated, demanding more efforts from all our teams to keep growing our business in a profitable way. As a result, we are continuous increasing our profitability. Now, analyzing the main KPIs for which we posted BRL1.9 trillion , at 17% growth year over year.

事實證明，2025 年比我們預想的更具挑戰性，需要我們所有團隊付出更多努力，才能以盈利的方式繼續發展我們的業務。因此，我們的獲利能力不斷提高。現在，我們來分析主要 KPI，我們實現了 1.9 兆雷亞爾的收入，年增 17%。

Total advisors accounted for 18.2,000 represent flash figures year over year and on active clients, we posted 4.7 million clients with 2% growth year over year. During the quarter, gross revenues marked BRL4.7 billion with a 4% growth year over year. EBT year over year is 5% lower, reaching BRL1.3 billion, mainly because last year we had positive impacts, and on the bottom line it's another record.

顧問總數為 182,000 人，這是同比快速增長數據；活躍客戶數量為 470 萬，年增 2%。本季總營收達 47 億雷亞爾，年增 4%。EBT年減5%，達到13億雷亞爾，主要是因為去年我們取得了正面成果，而最終利潤又創下了新紀錄。

We achieved the highest net income in our history, reaching BRL1,321 million. It represents that 18% year over year growth on profitability, we achieved 24.4% ROE during the quarter, at 223bps expansion versus second quarter '24. 10 out of 11 quarters posting consecutive growth, just means 10 out of 11 quarters posting consecutive growth.

我們實現了公司歷史上最高的淨收入，達到 13.21 億雷亞爾。這表明，獲利能力年增 18%，本季淨資產收益率達到 24.4%，較 2024 年第二季成長 223 個基點。 11 個季度中有 10 個季度連續成長，這意味著 11 個季度中有 10 個季度連續成長。

On capital ratio we printed a comfortable level at 20.1%. It represented an increase of 110 bps quarter over quarter. Regarding diluted EPS, we posted 22% growth year over year, another part in which it grows faster than net income, driven by our share buyback program execution. As we speak, we still have a share buyback program of a billion rise to be executed until next year.

資本適足率方面，我們設定在20.1%的合理水準。這比上一季成長了110個基點。關於稀釋後每股收益，我們實現了 22% 的同比增長，這是其增長速度超過淨利潤的另一個方面，這主要得益於我們的股票回購計劃的執行。目前，我們還有一項總額達十億美元的股票回購計畫要執行到明年。

As I mentioned during last quarters, our capital distribution plan is aligned with our guidance, and we will operate the business with a bit ratio between 16% and 19%. Now, let's see more details on the next slides. Since last quarter, we have been sharing new info to provide a better understanding of our ecosystem, considering institutional clients in total client assets and provided assets under management from our asset management business and AUA from our fund administration business.

正如我在上個季度提到的，我們的資本分配計劃與我們的指導方針一致，我們將以 16% 到 19% 的資金比率來經營業務。接下來，讓我們看看下一張投影片中的更多細節。自上個季度以來，我們一直在分享新的信息，以便更好地了解我們的生態系統，將機構客戶納入客戶總資產，並考慮我們資產管理業務的管理資產規模和基金管理業務的資產規模。

Said that our total clients AUM and AUA comprehend almost BRL1.9 trillion, which represented a 17% growth year over year. On the right hand of this slide is presented how net new money evolved. This net new money is only related to client assets. This quarter, we market BRL16 billion in retail that new money and minus BRL6 billion in corporate and institutional.

據稱，我們客戶的總資產管理規模 (AUM) 和資產管理規模 (AUA) 接近 1.9 兆巴西雷亞爾，年增 17%。本投影片右側展示了淨新增資金的演變過程。這筆新增淨資金僅與客戶資產相關。本季度，我們在零售領域新增了 160 億雷亞爾的資金，但在企業和機構領域減少了 60 億雷亞爾。

It's important to mention that during the second quarter SMEs and large corporates net new money reflected the dynamics of the current macro scenario. First, due to payment of higher interest expense, companies have less liquids than before.

值得一提的是，第二季中小企業和大型企業的淨新增資金反映了當前宏觀經濟情勢的動態變化。首先，由於支付更高的利息支出，公司的流動資金比以前減少了。

Some companies withdrew part of their investments with us as they were used in reciprocity for credit lines with other players, impacted primary offerings allocation and consequently the net new money coming from individuals. We keep developing our product offering and capabilities to constantly offer the best investment alternatives to clients.

由於部分公司將部分投資用於與其他參與者互惠獲得信貸額度，導致部分公司撤回了在我們這裡的投資，影響了首次公開募股的分配，進而影響了來自個人的淨新增資金。我們不斷改進產品和服務，提升自身能力，以便持續為客戶提供最佳的投資選擇。

Current environment has proven to be more challenged than we expected at the beginning of the year, especially for investment banking origination achieved. However, we still have a better GCM pipeline for the second half of the year. New investment products offering and other initiatives supporting our efforts to achieve retail net new money averaging BRL20 billion per quarter this year.

事實證明，當前環境比我們年初預期的更具挑戰性，尤其是投資銀行業務的開展。不過，我們下半年的GCM計畫儲備仍然更充足。推出新的投資產品和其他舉措，以支持我們今年實現零售淨新增資金平均每季達到 200 億雷亞爾的目標。

On the next slide, let's delve into our retail strategy. Here I'd like to address some topics which are connected to our business model. Today the company presents a more complete ecosystem with retail, institutional, and corporate divisions fully integrated to generate investment opportunities. Just benefits us in many instances.

下一頁，我們將深入探討我們的零售策略。在這裡，我想談談一些與我們的商業模式相關的話題。如今，該公司呈現了一個更完整的生態系統，零售、機構和企業部門完全整合，以創造投資機會。在很多情況下，這對我們有利。

One of them is the fixed income platform in which we are much more complete now, being one, the largest distributor of mid-size banks time deposits. Second, innovative in developing new instruments such as the boundary pack structure notes. And third, also having a robust wholesale bank franchise with a corporate secured book to serve retail clients.

其中之一是固定收益平台，我們現在在這個平台上已經非常完善，是中型銀行定期存款的最大經銷商之一。其次，在開發新樂器方面具有創新精神，例如邊界包結構音符。第三，還要擁有強大的批發銀行特許經營權，以及公司擔保的貸款組合，以服務零售客戶。

As part of our business model to engage clients on another level, we also launched new verticals in strengthening our investments portfolio. Why we changing clients should demand in banking, insurance, retirement plans, global account, effects, and now consortium.

為了更好地與客戶互動，作為我們商業模式的一部分，我們還推出了新的垂直業務，以加強我們的投資組合。為什麼我們不斷變化的客戶應該在銀行、保險、退休計劃、全球帳戶、影響以及現在的財團中提出要求。

This competitive ecosystem enabled us to present higher profitability during the last years, and there's much more to do, since we'll keep investing in channel diversification, expanding sales teams, improving our products platform experience with a more accurate client offering, and improving our intelligent segmentation.

這種競爭激烈的生態系統使我們能夠在過去幾年中實現更高的獲利能力，但我們還有很多工作要做，因為我們將繼續投資通路多元化、擴大銷售團隊、透過更精準的客戶服務來改善我們的產品平台體驗，並改善我們的智慧細分。

Recently, we also launched new guidelines to their face, sharing our knowledge tools and methodologies, focusing on an opportunity to increase productivity, responsiveness, and efficiency and independently if it's true, XP internal teams or AFAs, we also developed and agreed in a new and more comprehensive way to serve our clients. New rules are aligned with one objective to improve client experience.

最近，我們也向他們推出了新的指導方針，分享了我們的知識工具和方法，重點是提高生產力、回應能力和效率的機會。無論XP內部團隊或AFA是否真的如此，我們也以一種新的、更全面的方式開發和達成一致，為我們的客戶服務。新規旨在提升客戶體驗，其目標始終如一。

Our main goal is to keep serving clients with excellence, no matter in which channel or remuneration model they have chosen. With this new wave growing business, we are convinced that we have a more sustainable revenue model and profitability is a consequence for sure. The current diversified ecosystem defines XP as a defensive business with long term growth.

我們的主要目標是無論客戶選擇哪種管道或報酬模式，都要繼續為客戶提供卓越的服務。隨著這波新業務的成長，我們相信我們擁有更永續的收入模式，獲利能力也必然隨之而來。目前多元化的生態系統將XP定義為具有長期成長潛力的防禦型業務。

We are confident that our unique business model will keep evolving to achieve our long-term goals which is to become the lead in investments in Brazil. Moving to the next slide. We see on the left-hand side how we serve clients with different models, channels, and how XP is remunerated, anticipating what's becoming reality today.

我們相信，我們獨特的商業模式將持續發展，以實現我們的長期目標，即成為巴西投資領域的領導者。進入下一張投影片。左側展示了我們如何透過不同的模式、管道為客戶提供服務，以及XP的報酬方式，預示著如今正在成為現實的情況。

It means that IFAs and internal advisors can attend clients with transactional fees or fee-based model according to client's preference. We also have RAs and consultants which work in a fee-based model at attending clients with asset custody in different platforms.

這意味著獨立財務顧問和內部顧問可以根據客戶的偏好，採用交易費或以服務收費模式為客戶提供服務。我們也有註冊會計師和顧問，以收費模式為客戶提供不同平台上的資產託管服務。

What we see today from the client perspective it's a higher demand for fee-based model when compared to the recent past. Today, the fee-based model represents only 5% of our total client assets. Looking at developed markets, for example, the US, the fee-based model achieved around 50% share of clients' assets.

從客戶的角度來看，如今他們對按服務收費模式的需求比過去更高。如今，按服務收費模式僅占我們客戶總資產的 5%。以美國等已開發市場為例，以服務費計算的模式獲得了客戶資產約 50% 的份額。

If this is the trend in Brazil, we are ready to serve our clients. Our capacity to attend clients with different models differentiate us from competitors, and it's translated into more share of wallet and longer lifetime. Moving now to the next slide about retail rose. As we have stated before, we have implemented new initiatives and products to diversify our revenue streams during the last years.

如果這是巴西的趨勢，我們已準備好為客戶提供服務。我們能夠以不同的模式服務客戶，這使我們有別於競爭對手，並轉化為更高的客戶份額和更長的客戶生命週期。接下來來看下一張關於零售業成長的幻燈片。正如我們之前所說，在過去幾年裡，我們實施了新的措施和產品，以實現收入來源多元化。

Starting with credit card, it grew 8% year over year, marking BRL12.4 billion in TPV during the quarter. As we anticipated last quarter, we launched new products targeting affluent and private banking clients. We estimate that with the new value proposition, cards should accelerate in the next years.

以信用卡為例，該季度交易額年增 8%，達到 124 億雷亞爾。正如我們上個季度預期的那樣，我們推出了針對富裕客戶和私人銀行客戶的新產品。我們預計，憑藉新的價值主張，信用卡業務將在未來幾年加速成長。

Life insurance written premiums posted 45% growth year over year. As we said in recent quarters, our insurance business is a growth avenue which is still at its early stage. Since it presents a huge penetration potential, we understand that we'll keep growing at a fast pace on a quarterly basis, growth year over year on the second quarter and reached BRL 86 billion.

人壽保險保費收入較去年同期成長 45%。正如我們最近幾季所說，我們的保險業務是一個成長領域，目前仍處於起步階段。由於它具有巨大的滲透潛力，我們了解到我們將繼續保持季度快速成長，第二季度同比增長，達到 860 億雷亞爾。

We keep expanding our sales force to increase our relevance in this industry since our market share is mid single digit and there is a relevant addressable market to penetrate during the next years. In new products, we consider effects, global investments, digital account and consortium.

由於我們的市佔率只有個位數，而且未來幾年還有很大的市場空間可以開拓，因此我們不斷擴大銷售團隊，以提高我們在該行業的影響力。在新產品開發中，我們會考慮影響、全球投資、數位帳戶和聯盟。

All together they presented a 146% growth year over year with revenues reaching BRL256 million rise this quarter. It's important to note that consortium came from scratch and it's gaining traction month after month. Moving to the next slide, we'll address our wholesale bank evolution. Taking GCM into consideration, this quarter we saw decent industry volumes, but not close to last year's.

總計年增 146%，本季營收達到 2.56 億雷亞爾。值得注意的是，該聯盟是從零開始組建的，並且每個月都在不斷發展壯大。接下來，我們將進入下一張投影片，探討批發銀行的發展歷程。考慮到 GCM 因素，本季我們看到業界銷售尚可，但遠不及去年同期。

Coupled with that, some players became more aggressive in pricing, trying to gain market share and therefore resulting in lower fees. Finally, we have more opportunities and there is a chance to reaccelerate our revenue growth. Regarding XP's broker dealer, it was another positive quarter, and we became the leader in the local industry with 17% market share.

同時，一些玩家在定價方面變得更加激進，試圖搶佔市場份額，從而導致費用降低。最後，我們有了更多機會，有機會重新加速收入成長。關於 XP 的經紀交易商，這又是一個積極的季度，我們以 17% 的市場份額成為當地行業的領導者。

As we saw this quarter, we still expect with BRL34 billion. Bear in mind that we can have a change in tax rules, which can impact currently tax-exempt fixed income instruments. We are now expecting to increase this book during the year.

正如我們本季所看到的，我們仍然預計將達到 340 億雷亞爾。請注意，稅收規則可能會發生變化，這可能會影響目前免稅的固定收益工具。我們預計今年內本書銷量將會增加。

The rationale behind this is that companies will try to anticipate their debt issuance before they change. Also, for next year with elections in sight, we are likely to see an increasing volatility and therefore a reduction in corporate clients' appetite for new issuance. So our strategy, that being the case, is to keep this warehouse book and she will sell it to our retail clients during the next year.

背後的邏輯是，公司會在債務發行發生變化之前嘗試預測債務發行。此外，明年即將舉行選舉，我們可能會看到市場波動性加劇，因此企業客戶對新發行債券的需求將會下降。有鑑於此，我們的策略是保留這份倉庫帳簿，她將在明年將其出售給我們的零售客戶。

To conclude my presentation, I would like to reinforce that our innovative offering, advisory model, cost, and capital discipline are translating into a higher profitability, even considering the more challenging scenario. Our ecosystem is way more complete than years ago, and there's a big opportunity in front of us to expand our car business, our retail rose, and our wholesale activity.

最後，我想強調的是，即使在更具挑戰性的情況下，我們創新的產品、諮詢模式、成本控制和資本紀律也轉化為更高的獲利能力。我們的生態系統比幾年前完善得多，我們面前有很大的機會拓展我們的汽車業務、零售業務和批發業務。

We are confident that by executing this we reach our goals regarding market leadership in investments and also regarding our long-term growth. Now, I will hand it over to Victor who will provide a deeper look into our financial performance this quarter, and I will be back for the Q&A session.

我們相信，透過執行這項措施，我們將實現我們在投資領域市場領導地位以及長期成長方面的目標。現在，我將把發言權交給 Victor，他將深入分析我們本季的財務業績，稍後我將回到問答環節。

Thank you, Maffre. Good evening, everyone. It's a pleasure to be here with you to discuss our financial performance for the second quarter of 2025. Starting its total gross revenues. Total gross revenues for the quarter reached BRL4.7 billion, representing a 4% increase year over year and the 2% increase quarter over quarter.

謝謝你，馬弗雷。各位晚上好。很高興今天能和大家一起討論我們2025年第二季的財務表現。開始計算其總毛收入。本季總營收達 47 億雷亞爾，年增 4%，季增 2%。

It was another quarter that retail gained participation in total revenues, now representing 77% out of total. In this quarter, once again, our main driver for retail growth year over year were fixed income and other retail, which includes retail news new verticals such as global accounts and consortium.

零售業在總收入中的佔比再次提升，目前已佔總收入的 77%。本季度，零售業務年成長的主要驅動力依然是固定收益和其他零售業務，其中包括全球帳戶和財團等零售新聞新垂直領域。

On the wholesale bank corporate was the highlight, partially offsetting the negative impact on issue services due to a tough count from 2Q '24. I will share more details during the next slides. The retail revenue posted BRL3.6 billion highs in the quarter, a 9% growth year over year, and a 4% growth quarter over quarter.

批發銀行企業業務是亮點，部分抵消了 2024 年第二季嚴峻情況對發卡服務造成的負面影響。我將在下一張投影片中分享更多細節。本季零售收入創下 36 億雷亞爾的歷史新高，年增 9%，季增 4%。

The quieter growth was mainly driven by equities, which presented a higher ADTV in the period. Equity printed slightly more than BRL1 billion highs, if 7% growth quarter over quarter. On a year over year perspective, fixed income was the main contributor, growing 20% and reaching BRL9,088 million highs in revenue.

較為穩定的成長主要由股票市場推動，該時期股票的平均每日成交量較高。股票價格略高於 10 億雷亞爾，創下歷史新高，季增 7%。從年比來看，固定收益是主要貢獻者，成長了 20%，營收達到 90.88 億雷亞爾的歷史新高。

It's important to mention that in other retail concepts, the main contributor is the float remunerations where we had higher average volumes if higher interest rates during the quarter. Now, let's move to the next slides. If corporate and issue services before moving to the quarter results, it's important to mention that on 2Q '24, we posted all-time high corporation issue services revenues backed by a strongly the same activity.

值得一提的是，在其他零售概念中，主要貢獻因素是浮動利率報酬，如果當季利率較高，則平均交易量也會較高。現在，我們來看下一張投影片。在介紹季度業績之前，需要提及的是公司和發行服務，值得一提的是，在 2024 年第二季度，我們公佈了公司發行服務收入的歷史新高，這得益於強勁的相同業務活動。

Therefore, we have a tough com for this quarter. Issue services presented BRL268 million, minus 30% year over year and the 5% quarter over quarter. On the other hand, corporate revenues posted a solid 14% increase year over year and was flat quarter over quarter. It reached BRL279 million, supported by our capacity to offer different solutions to our clients, mainly if derivatives.

因此，我們本季面臨嚴峻的挑戰。發行服務業務公佈收入為2.68億雷亞爾，年減30%，季減5%。另一方面，公司營收年增 14%，環比持平。憑藉我們向客戶提供不同解決方案的能力（主要是衍生性商品），該業務達到了 2.79 億雷亞爾。

Moving on to the next slides, we will explore SG&A and efficiency ratios. Our SG&A expenses totaled BRL1.56 billion in this quarter. If a 10% growth year over year and also quarter over quarter. We keep investing in your business, and this quarter will have a higher expense in the known people category. Most of it explained by marketing and technology investments.

接下來，我們將探討銷售、一般及行政費用和效率比率。本季我們的銷售、管理及行政費用總計為15.6億雷亞爾。如果年增10%，季增10%。我們將繼續投資您的業務，本季在熟人類別上的支出將會增加。大部分原因可以用行銷和技術投資來解釋。

During the quarter, despite the slower pace in your revenue growth, our operational cost discipline supported our efficiency ratio at 34.5% last 12 months. When compared to last year, our efficiency ratio improved 161 base points.

本季度，儘管收入成長速度放緩，但我們嚴格的營運成本控制使我們的效率比率在過去 12 個月中保持在 34.5%。與去年相比，我們的效率比率提高了161個基點。

We will keep our plan to improve our business efficiency, and this will come in parallel with new investments that will continue to be made, aiming to enhance our tech platform, our product offerings, and sales team expansion. Moving to the next slide, let's see your EBT. Just a recap, last year we had positive EBT impact from the overreg related to the head of certain assets and liabilities.

我們將繼續推動提高業務效率的計劃，同時不斷增加投資，旨在提升我們的技術平台、產品供應和銷售團隊規模。接下來，讓我們來看看下一張投影片，看看您的 EBT（員工福利金）。簡單回顧一下，去年由於某些資產和負債項目的超額監管，我們的稅前利潤 (EBT) 產生了積極影響。

Therefore, EBT is not like for like one or comparison. On 2Q '25, we printed BRL1.3 billion high EBT, which represented a 4% increase quarter over quarter. Even considering the issue services impact on our revenues, we are able to expand the EBT margin by 50 base points.

因此，EBT 不能與同類事物進行比較。2025 年第二季度，我們實現了 13 億雷亞爾的稅前利潤，季增 4%。即使考慮到服務問題對我們收入的影響，我們仍能將 EBT 利潤率提高 50 個基點。

On the next slide, we see the net income. Net income achieved BRL, 1.3 billion highs, and 18% growth year over year and the 7% growth quarter over quarter. Net margin expanded by approximately 130 base points quarter over quarter and 320 base points year over year, reaching 29.7% in 2Q '25. In your revenue means for this quarter, higher secondary market activity, compensated lower volumes of investment banking, impacting or effective tax rates.

下一張投影片顯示的是淨收入。淨利潤達到 13 億雷亞爾，創歷史新高，年增 18%，季增 7%。2025 年第二季淨利率較上季成長約 130 個基點，年增約 320 個基點，達到 29.7%。本季您的收入意味著二級市場活動增加，彌補了投資銀行業務量下降，影響了稅率或有效稅率。

This translated into a new hack high net income for a quarter with significant EPS growth. Let's focus on earnings per share and ROE details over the next slides. Our diluted EPS in 2Q '25 reached BRL2 and $0.46 per share.

這意味著該公司本季淨利創歷史新高，每股收益也實現了顯著成長。接下來幾張投影片，我們將重點放在每股收益和淨值收益率的細節。2025 年第二季度，我們的稀釋後每股收益達到 2 巴西雷亞爾，即每股 0.46 美元。

As we continue the execution of our Shyber back program, canceling their respective shares acquired, the EPS growth pace was again faster than our net income growth. In the quarter, our diluted EPS posted 22% growth, while our net income grew 18%, both on year over year basis. Our OTE market 30.1%, 2,090 base points higher year over year.

隨著我們繼續執行 Shyber 回購計劃，取消他們各自收購的股份，每股盈餘成長速度再次超過了淨利潤成長速度。本季度，我們的稀釋後每股收益年增 22%，淨收入年增 18%。我們的 OTE 市場年增 30.1%，基點成長 2,090 點。

Our ROE grew on a yearly and a quarterly basis, reaching 24.4%. This represents 230 base points increased in comparison to the same quarter last year. These numbers I have just mentioned are important indicators that we keep generating consistent income returns for shareholders. Finally, moving to capital management, as we have planned, we keep our target of distributing dividends and executing share buyback programs.

我們的淨資產收益率逐年和逐季增長，達到 24.4%。這相當於比去年同期增加了230個基點。我剛才提到的這些數字都是重要的指標，顯示我們能夠持續為股東創造穩定的收入回報。最後，在資本管理方面，正如我們計劃的那樣，我們將繼續以派發股息和執行股票回購計劃為目標。

Combined, their volumes should be above 50% of net income for 2025 and '26. We already have a share buyback program of BRL1 billion should be executed until next year, and new announcements will be made according to the Board of Directors' decision.

合計，它們在 2025 年和 2026 年的銷售量應該超過淨收入的 50%。我們已經制定了一項10億雷亞爾的股票回購計劃，該計劃應持續到明年，新的公告將根據董事會的決定發布。

Moving to the second part of capital management on the next two slides. This is the last topic of my presentation, and we can see on the left-hand side that our BIS ratio in a very comfortable level of 20.1%. On the same rationale, our CET1 is at 18.5%, which is way higher than P's average, if 12%.

接下來的兩張投影片將進入資本管理的第二部分。這是我演講的最後一個主題，我們可以從左側看到，我們的BIS比率處於非常舒適的20.1%水平。基於同樣的道理，我們的 CET1 為 18.5%，遠高於 P 的平均值 12%。

On the high hand side of this slide, we can see that our total RWH to total asset ratio was 27%, which represents the third reduction in our role and 4% lower year over year. Total AWA remained stead equator over quarter and grew 9.8% year over year, reaching BRL101 billion.

從這張投影片的正面來看，我們可以看到我們的總雨水收集與總資產比率為 27%，這代表了我們角色的第三次下降，並且比前一年下降了 4%。本季 AWA 總額維持穩定，年增 9.8%，達到 1,010 億雷亞爾。

As I said the last quarter, RAW should grow at a moderate pace when compared to net income and it was the case in this quarter. Since net composed 18% growth year over year. As Maffra said before, the potential new tax regulation may change the DCM dynamics and therefore impacting our willingness to house more assets to distribute during the 4Q and 2026.

正如我上個季度所說，與淨利潤相比，RAW 的成長速度應該較為溫和，而本季的情況也正是如此。淨利潤年增 18%。正如 Maffra 先前所說，潛在的新稅收法規可能會改變 DCM 的動態，從而影響我們在第四季和 2026 年持有更多資產進行分配的意願。

It's important to highlight that our [va] market 13 base points of our equity or BRL28 million, demonstrating our risk discipline since it was 4% lower year over year.

值得強調的是，我們的[va]市場占我們權益的13個基點，即2800萬雷亞爾，這反映了我們的風險紀律，因為與去年相比下降了4%。

Eduardo Rosman, BTG

Eduardo Rosman，BTG

Hi. Hi, everyone. Now my question here is on capital generation and dividends and buybacks, right? So just help us understand a little bit more your capital generation because it seems that you're, you've been able to improve it this quarter. Actually, you are growing your capital base I think faster than your net income, right?

你好。大家好。現在我的問題是關於資本累積、股利和股票回購，對嗎？所以，請您再詳細介紹一下您的資本創造情況，因為看起來您本季在這方面有所改善。實際上，我認為你的資本成長速度比你的淨收入成長速度更快，對嗎？

So but you're still way below the level this year in the level of buybacks and dividends when compared to last year, right? So can we see an acceleration of that now in the second quarter? How do you see that? We see that you have this soft guidance of above 50%, for 2025 and 2026, but can you please help us with more details? Thanks.

但是，與去年相比，今年的股票回購和股利水平仍然遠低於去年的水平，對吧？那麼我們能否在第二季看到這種趨勢加速發展呢？你對此有何看法？我們看到您對 2025 年和 2026 年的業績給了 50% 以上的預期，但能否請您提供更多細節？謝謝。

Hi Rosman. Good evening. Thank you for your question. First dividing the answer here in some parts. First one, as we anticipated, the net income would grow a bit faster than the IWA over this year, delivering some leverage in capital terms and I think that was the case. Also, as you comment, we didn't distribute as much of the net income as we generated over this quarter.

嗨，羅斯曼。晚安.謝謝你的提問。首先將答案分成幾個部分。首先，正如我們預期的那樣，今年的淨收入成長速度將略快於 IWA，從而在資本方面帶來一些槓桿效應，我認為情況確實如此。另外，正如您所說，我們本季分配的淨利潤並沒有達到我們實際創造的淨利潤的多少。

The second part, we are still capturing a bit of leverage over the 4,960 new regulation, and the benefits will be delivered over the year in the DRC and the market risk, principally in the crowd spread risks inside of market risk. The second part will be delivered over the risk weighted assets or operational risk. Also, we expect to see that over the next quarters.

第二部分，我們仍然利用 4,960 項新法規獲得一些槓桿作用，其益處將在未來一年內在剛果民主共和國和市場風險中體現出來，主要體現在市場風險中的群體分散風險。第二部分將根據風險加權資產或營運風險進行交付。此外，我們預計未來幾季也會出現這種情況。

Another part here, talking about the trend for the year, we expected to see the RWA growing is lower than the net income. And the new tax regulation may change a bit the dynamics of the DCM market and depending on how it goes, we may warehouse a bit faster than initially expected to take advantage of the demand from clients to issue before the regulation takes place in 2026.

這裡還有一部分，談到今年的趨勢，我們預計 RWA 的成長速度將低於淨收入的成長速度。新的稅收法規可能會稍微改變債務資本市場 (DCM) 的動態，根據其發展情況，我們可能會比最初預期更快地進行庫存積壓，以便在 2026 年法規生效之前滿足客戶發行需求。

Even though we don't expect any of those to impact our targeting, our target to pay more than 50% of our profits this year because we still have a lot of spark cap and remembering here, our CET1 ratio is at 18 and the average of the industry is at 12, so a lot of space. So we may announce the rest of the payout over the rest of the year.

儘管我們預計這些因素都不會影響我們的目標，但我們今年的目標是支付超過 50% 的利潤，因為我們仍然有很多成長空間，而且請記住，我們的 CET1 比率為 18，而行業平均為 12，所以還有很大的成長空間。因此，我們可能會在今年剩餘的時間內公佈剩餘的派息情況。

And the discussion between dividends and buybacks depend on the price of the stock, and we need to discuss that asset for board.

而分紅和股票回購之間的討論取決於股票價格，我們需要向董事會討論這項資產。

Crystal clear. Thanks a lot, Mansur.

晶瑩剔透。非常感謝，曼蘇爾。

Yuri Fernandes, J.P. Morgan

尤里‧費爾南德斯，摩根大通

Thank you, Parize. I'm. I have a question regarding our corporate, like corporate lending strategy. I know it's something more for you, but you have been discussing new products, new strategies, and a question I have is if corporate lending matters for the entire ecosystem, when we go to your AUC, we see that the commercial is the, it is the portion like not growing as much and like actually IUC and that the money the same.

謝謝你，帕里茲。我是。我有一個關於我們公司，例如公司貸款策略的問題。我知道這對你來說意義重大，但你一直在討論新產品、新策略，我有一個問題是，企業貸款對整個生態系統是否重要？當我們查看你的AUC時，我們發現商業貸款成長緩慢，而IUC和資金卻保持不變。

So, just trying to understand if you, how is your perception about corporate landing and if you believe this could be something that is missing for your ecosystem and your racing? Thank you.

所以，我只是想了解一下，您對企業落地有何看法？您是否認為這可能是您的生態系統和賽車運動所缺少的東西？謝謝。

Hi, Yuri. Here, its Parize. Could you repeat the question we couldn't hear in the beginning. Sorry about that. No.

你好，尤里。這裡是帕里茲。您能再說一次我們一開始沒聽清楚的問題嗎？抱歉。不。

No worries, let me speak closer to the mighty here. So I would like to understand a little bit about corporate lending. If you believe corporate lending is important for your strategy overall.

別擔心，讓我近距離和這位權貴談談。所以我想了解一些關於企業貸款的知識。如果您認為企業貸款對您的整體策略至關重要。

Hi, Yuri. This is Victor. Thank you for the question. Our idea in corporate lending is the same as other product we originate to sell. You may see the corporate book growing, but everything that we put in, we expect to put out at some moment in time.

你好，尤里。這是維克多。謝謝你的提問。我們在企業貸款方面的理念與我們推出並銷售的其他產品相同。你可能會看到公司帳簿在成長，但我們投入的一切，都希望在某個時候能夠出版。

So, the growth you see in the credit portfolio is exactly that. The portfolio grow hopefully BRL3 billion and that will go under a securitization and we're going to sell those assets over the next quarters.

所以，你看到的信貸組合成長正是如此。投資組合預計將成長至 30 億雷亞爾，這些資產將進行證券化，我們將在接下來的幾季出售這些資產。

No, thank you, Mansur, but you don't believe like being more or less active here, it's, could be more helpful for your operation.

不，謝謝你，曼蘇爾，但你不認為在這裡更積極或更消極地參與，會對你的行動更有幫助。

Yeah, yes, it could, but the same as capital markets, we have our risk appetite, and if you are buying credit to sell or originate, a security to sell, it occupies the same risk space. So, we are not going to increase our portfolio over our risk appetite because of any other strategy because they use the same pocket.

是的，有可能，但就像資本市場一樣，我們有自己的風險承受能力，如果你購買信貸是為了出售或發放證券，那麼它就處於相同的風險空間。所以，我們不會因為其他策略而增加超出我們風險承受能力的投資組合，因為它們都使用同一個資金池。

Perfect. Thank you.

完美的。謝謝。

Thiago Batista. UBS.

蒂亞戈·巴蒂斯塔。瑞銀集團。

Okay. Hi, Mafrra, Victor, Parize, Antonio. I have two questions. Mafrra, in the beginning, you commented about, the new initiatives to try to speed up, the money on the second half of the year. Can you give us a little bit of more details about those initiatives? The second one about the guidance for next year.

好的。嗨，馬夫拉、維克多、帕里茲、安東尼奧。我有兩個問題。Mafrra，一開始您曾經評論過，為了加快下半年的資金到位，將會推出一些新舉措。能詳細介紹一下這些措施嗎？第二點是關於明年的指導方針。

Are you still comfortable with the guidance that you gave, I would say two or three years ago. If you look to consensus for this year on the line, consensus is something close to BRL20 billion of the line. So to achieve the low end, you need to expand 14% next year. Things are still feasible, but only to her for you guys if the guides for next year is still achievable.

你現在還對你兩三年前給的指導意見感到滿意嗎？如果參考今年的市場共識，市場共識認為市場規模將接近 200 億雷亞爾。所以要達到最低目標，明年就需要成長 14%。事情仍然可行，但前提是明年的指導方針仍然可以實現。

Thank you for the question, Thiago. The first question about net new money, as we mentioned on the presentation, we still see the BRL20 billion per quarter in retail as a reasonable level for the next quarters. Of course, if we see a change in the macro environment, starting, interest rate cuts or something like that, we should, see the BRL20 billion accelerating, but for now, that's the level that we are comfortable.

謝謝你的提問，蒂亞戈。關於新增淨資金的第一個問題，正如我們在演示中提到的，我們仍然認為未來幾季零售業每季 200 億雷亞爾是一個合理的水平。當然，如果我們看到宏觀環境發生變化，例如開始降息之類的，我們應該會看到 200 億雷亞爾的成長加速，但就目前而言，這是我們可以接受的水平。

Of course, this quarter, it was a little bit tougher on SMBs and corporate, lending, but on, and corporate segment, but we are confident that the BRL20 billion is, it's a good level. How we get there are a lot of initiatives in the company. If you go back a few years, I would say that the main one was channel diversification.

當然，本季中小企業和企業貸款業務面臨一些挑戰，但我們相信 200 億雷亞爾是一個不錯的水平。為了實現這一目標，公司內部採取了許多措施。如果回顧幾年前，我認為最主要的變革是通路多元化。

Back in 2021 we only had one channel, what we call the B2B the IFA channel. Today with internal advisors, we have the RIA model. So if you look at the numbers today, more than half of the net new money is coming from the new channels, and we keep investing in increasing, the number of Internal advisors, the number of IFAs on our network, so expansion is one of the levers here.

2021 年，我們只有一個頻道，我們稱之為 B2B 頻道，也就是 IFA 頻道。如今有了內部顧問，我們就有了RIA模式。所以，如果你看看今天的數據，你會發現超過一半的新增淨資金來自新管道，而且我們一直在投資增加內部顧問的數量，增加我們網絡中的獨立財務顧問 (IFA) 的數量，因此擴張是其中的一個槓桿。

The second one. When you have a tougher environment, and higher interest rates competing with products, CGs from the banks, especially the tax exempt ones, it's not that easy. So, all the time we are like creating new products to compete with the banks. We just launched. New products here this quarter they are performing very well.

第二個。當市場環境更加嚴峻，利率更高，銀行的產品和優惠政策（尤其是免稅優惠政策）還要與之競爭時，事情就沒那麼容易了。所以，我們一直在不斷開發新產品來與銀行競爭。我們剛剛上線。本季推出的新產品表現非常出色。

It's a type of fund with senior trench, and it's a leek rate here and a tax exempt, so it's a very good one. So, we are all the time trying to create products to compete with the banks and we do also partnership with some of the public banks and some other banks through auctions or through bilateral distribution. So all the time we are trying to reinate products.

這是一種設有高級通道的基金，而且這裡的漏損率很低，免稅，所以非常好。因此，我們一直在努力創造產品與銀行競爭，我們也透過拍賣或雙邊分銷與一些公共銀行和其他銀行建立合作關係。所以我們一直在努力使產品重新煥發活力。

I would say the third one and probably the most short term and effective tool here it's how we increase the productivity of our IFAs. Okay, so we have been investing a lot of time, as I said on the first quarter, on helping the IFA channel to increase productivity through technology, though, sales management we have some people in some of the operations and we are seeing the numbers are starting to pick up.

我認為第三個方法，也是最短期有效的方法，就是提高我們獨立財務顧問的生產力。好的，正如我在第一季所說，我們投入了大量時間，幫助 IFA 管道透過科技提高生產力。雖然我們在銷售管理方面有一些人員參與運營，但我們看到業績開始好轉。

And the last one, but it's more like, I would say medium term, we have been investing a lot on increasing the Level of service in the way of serving our clients through financial planning, through wealth planning, session, tax planning, and so on. We have created our own internal models.

最後一點，但更像是中期規劃，我們一直在大力投資提高服務水平，透過財務規劃、財富規劃、諮詢、稅務規劃等方式為客戶提供服務。我們創建了自己的內部模型。

We have been training all the faces, but I would say here is more like a medium term, especially on the current scenario where buying SCG at 150%, it's, probably. Good option for some of the investors and it's harder to make them move, to XP, but on the medium term and long term, for me this is the biggest op opportunity we have like, increasing the way of serving in the market and creating a new level of service in investing in Brazil.

我們一直在訓練所有球員，但我認為這更像是一個中期計劃，尤其是在目前的情況下，以 150% 的價格買入 SCG，可能是這樣。對於一些投資者來說，這是一個不錯的選擇，雖然很難讓他們轉向 XP，但從中長期來看，我認為這是我們最大的機會，可以提高我們在市場上的服務水平，並在巴西的投資領域創造一個新的服務水平。

And the second question was guidance for next year. Yeah, we are still pursuing the guidance for next year. Of course, right now we are like pursuing the bottom of the guidance, okay, but we are pursue pursuing for this year, we believe that the number for revenue that we are pursuing is still around 10%.

第二個問題是關於明年的指導方針。是的，我們仍在尋求明年的指導。當然，目前我們正努力實現預期目標的最低點，但我們相信今年的營收目標仍將在 10% 左右。

Of course, you saw the numbers for the first half of the year. They are a little bit lower, 5.5%, against 10%, but we are very confident that the numbers will accelerate on the second half and the growth rate will be higher on the second half than the first one.

當然，你們都看到了上半年的數據。雖然略低一些，為 5.5%，而上半年為 10%，但我們非常有信心，下半年的數字將會加速成長，成長率也會高於上半年。

Thanks, Martha. Very clear.

謝謝你，瑪莎。非常清楚。

Mario Pierry, BofA Global Research.

Mario Pierry，美國銀行全球研究部。

Hey guys, thanks for taking my question. Maffra, can you give us a little bit more color on the on inflows so far in the third quarter, because again, it sounds, are you seeing, have you seen so far in the first half of this quarter, a number close to the level that they give you confidence. So that's my first question.

各位好，感謝你們回答我的問題。Maffra，您能否更詳細地介紹一下第三季迄今的資金流入？因為聽起來，您在本季上半段是否看到了接近您預期水平的數字？這是我的第一個問題。

My second question is related to your EBT margin. Yes, it continues to improve. However, you are still are below, right, your medium-term guidance and it seems like revenues are growing a little less than you anticipated, even though you're still maintaining the plus 10% for this year. Is there anything you can do on the cost side if the revenues don't come through this year? Okay, thank you.

我的第二個問題與你們的稅前利潤率有關。是的，情況持續好轉。然而，您目前仍低於您的中期指導目標，而且收入成長似乎略低於您的預期，儘管您仍然維持今年 10% 的成長目標。如果今年的收入沒有達到預期，你們在成本方面有什麼辦法嗎？好的，謝謝。

Thank you for the question. We'll take the first one. We cannot talk about the net money for the quarter so far, but, my answer for you will be we are confident in delivering the BRL20 billion, or around BRL20 billion for the next quarters as I mentioned before.

謝謝你的提問。我們選第一個。目前我們還不能談論本季的淨收入，但是，我可以向你保證，我們有信心實現 200 億雷亞爾的目標，或者像我之前提到的那樣，在接下來的幾個季度實現大約 200 億雷亞爾的目標。

Hi, Mario, taking the second part here about EBT and SG&A. First talking about EBT, our product, and the EBT depends on the product mix, as we discussed it before, and also the tax rate and the trend in both of them should be trading around the quarter if the market keeps the way it is. And talking about SG&A, we delivered a lot of reduction in the efficiency ratio over the last two years, almost 400 base points.

嗨，馬裡奧，這裡是關於 EBT 和 SG&A 的第二部分。首先談談 EBT，也就是我們的產品，EBT 取決於產品組合（正如我們之前討論過的），也取決於稅率，如果市場保持現狀，兩者的趨勢應該都在季度內波動。說到銷售、一般及行政費用，過去兩年我們的效率比率大幅下降，接近 400 個基點。

And since we keep investing in strategic areas as new advisors and technology and you name it, we may see the index more flattish over this year. It's vital to reinforce our commitment to cost control and efficient, even though, but we are not going to stop investing in your car because of a bit more of unpredictable levels of revenue coming from the wholesale banking size.

由於我們不斷投資於策略領域，例如新的顧問和技術等等，我們可能會看到該指數在今年保持穩定。儘管批發銀行業務規模帶來的收入水準出現了一些不可預測的變化，但我們不會因為這些變化而停止對您的汽車進行投資，因此我們必須加強對成本控制和效率的承諾。

And as Maffra said, 2026, there is a lot of time to the end of 2026, and for now, we are comfortable with the levels.

正如馬弗拉所說，2026 年還有很長一段時間，到 2026 年底還有很長時間，就目前而言，我們對目前的水平感到滿意。

Okay, that's clear. Let me rephrase the first question then. When we look at inflows during the second quarter, did you see an improving pattern throughout the quarter or on a monthly basis? Are you seeing inflows improving or did you see them improving in the quarter, or is it relatively, the same amount of inflows per month?

好的，明白了。那我換個方式問第一個問題吧。當我們觀察第二季的資金流入情況時，您是否發現整個季度或按月來看，資金流入呈現改善趨勢？您認為資金流入情況是否有改善？或者說，您認為本季資金流入情況有所改善，還是說每月資金流入量相對不變？

Mario, I will give you the same answer that I gave you before. I believe we can deliver the BRL20 billion, if you get the last quarter, it was BRL16. I imagine that one customer or two could make the difference here. So, BRL20 billion, is the number here and around BRL20 billion it could be a little bit higher or a little bit lower, okay, but. That's the pace right now. Okay. Thank you.

馬裡奧，我的回答和之前一樣。我相信我們可以實現 200 億雷亞爾的目標，如果你算上上一季的數據，那就是 160 億雷亞爾。我想，一兩個顧客就能改變局面。所以，這裡是 200 億雷亞爾，這個數字在 200 億雷亞爾左右，可能會略高一些或略低一些，好吧，但是。這就是目前的節奏。好的。謝謝。

Marcelo Mizrahi, Bradesco BBI.

馬塞洛·米茲拉希 (Marcelo Mizrahi)，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for the ques the opportunity to do the question here. So my question is regarding again about the corporate portfolio, which was a huge growth in a quarterly basis and not too much in a yearly basis, but just to understand what's the type of this credit, what's happening exactly here?

大家好。感謝您提出這個問題，並給我機會在這裡回答這個問題。所以我的問題仍然是關於企業投資組合的，該投資組合按季度計算增長巨大，但按年度計算增長幅度不大。我只是想了解這種信貸的類型，這裡到底發生了什麼事？

And looking forward, another question is regarding the annual money of the corporates. To understand, if there are any new strategy here, if there are any news here to justify this net new money negative on the corporate side. Okay, thank you.

展望未來，另一個問題是關於企業的年度資金。要了解，這裡是否有任何新策略，是否有任何消息可以證明企業方面淨新增資金為負值是合理的。好的，謝謝。

Thank you for your question, Victor here. The first part. Sorry, the first part about credit portfolio. As we said before, those are credit that we originated to sell. So basically those are operations we did with corporates, and we originate receivables that will be securitized and then sold to our clients base. That's something that we did before over the other quarters and it's the same that we're going to do again.

感謝您的提問，我是維克多。第一部分。抱歉，關於信用組合的第一部分。正如我們之前所說，這些是我們發放出來準備出售的信貸。所以基本上，這些都是我們與企業開展的業務，我們產生應收帳款，這些應收帳款將被證券化，然後出售給我們的客戶群。我們之前在其他季度也這樣做過，這次我們也會這樣做。

So, we expect to sell that and talking about the corporate then new money, they, I think the problem here is the dynamics of the market. We are seeing, we begin to see that in the first quarter and then the trading things fight a bit in the second quarter. What we are seeing the banks that give credit to the companies, they are asking for reciprocity in terms of investment to deliver some credit lines.

所以，我們預期會賣出去，說到企業和新資金，我認為問題在於市場的動態。我們看到，這種情況在第一季開始出現，然後在第二季交易方面出現了一些摩擦。我們看到，提供企業信貸的銀行，要求企業在投資上給予對等回報，才能提供一些信貸額度。

Since we are not in this business and we are not able to give the main product that is credit, we are seeing the money flow to banks that usually have some products as cash flows and the space of cards and etc. So that's basically the case.

由於我們不從事這項業務，也無法提供信貸這一主要產品，我們看到資金流向了通常提供現金流、信用卡等產品的銀行。情況大致如此。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

Tito Labarta，高盛集團。

Hi, good easy. Thanks for the call. I take your question. A question just following up, a little bit more on the revenue growth, right? I mean you're maintaining the 10% for this year, around 10%, you said it should accelerate the second half of the year. If you break that down, right, retail growing 9% year by year, so that would, that's a bit closer, I guess.

嗨，簡單易懂。謝謝你的來電。我接受你的問題。還有一個後續問題，關於營收成長方面，對吧？我的意思是，你今年維持了 10% 的成長速度，大約在 10% 左右，你說過這應該會加速下半年的成長。如果細分一下，零售業每年成長 9%，那麼，我想，這更接近實際情況了。

First, do you think retail in and of itself will accelerate in the second half of the year? Or 2, is it more the issue of services, the corporate, the other lines you expect? I mean, those obviously did accelerate given the some somewhat we first half of the year, but just if we could break out between retail.

首先，您認為零售業本身會在今年下半年加速成長嗎？或者 2，這更多的是服務、公司、您期望的其他方面的問題嗎？我的意思是，考慮到今年上半年的一些情況，這些顯然有所加速，但如果我們能夠突破零售業的瓶頸就好了。

Hi, Tito. This is Victor. So, basically, we can break that revenue growth between the first half of the year and the second half, if three factors. The first one is very easy to explain. We have 6% more business days, so more business days, we have more trading days, more interest rates over capital on client’s cash, and also a higher slick hate in the second half of the year against the first.

你好，蒂托。這是維克多。所以，基本上，如果考慮以下三個因素，我們可以將收入成長分為上半年和下半年兩部分。第一個問題很容易解釋。我們增加了 6% 的營業日，因此營業日更多，交易日更多，客戶現金的資本利率更高，而且下半年的利潤率也比上半年更高。

That's the first part of the explanation. The second one is the new verticals and new advisors. So basically, we keep hiring advisors and we have a lot of products that are still roll out and are growing a lot as international investments, consortium, and other products in the new vertical portfolio. And the last one that is more volatile is the product mix.

這是解釋的第一部分。第二點是新增垂直領域和新顧問。所以基本上，我們一直在招聘顧問，我們有很多產品仍在推出，並且作為國際投資、財團和新垂直投資組合中的其他產品，我們的產品正在迅速成長。最後一個波動性較大的因素是產品組合。

If we have a second quarter, if a DCM that is stronger and more primary offering from funds, we may see a lift in retail revenues and also the issue service to revenues. So basically those are the three components and why we are expecting to have higher revenues in the second half against the first.

如果第二季債務資本市場 (DCM) 表現更強勁，基金的一級市場發行量更大，我們可能會看到零售收入和發行服務收入的成長。所以基本上，以上三點就是我們預期下半年營收會高於上半年的原因。

Great, no, that's helpful. Victor. Just one quick follow up maybe on the fixed income revenues, which they're so strong like 20% year over year, although it did fall a little bit in the quarter. I mean, you mentioned higher rates.

太好了，這很有幫助。勝利者。關於固定收益收入，我只想快速補充一點，這部分收入非常強勁，比去年同期成長了 20%，儘管本季略有下降。我的意思是，你提到了更高的利率。

How do you think about, are you getting to sort of like the peak level on the fixed income, or can that still continue to outpace the other segments just on a relative basis? I see the fixed to the others given the where we are on the rate cycle.

您認為固定收益業務是否已經接近頂峰，還是說它還能繼續相對領先其他業務板塊？考慮到我們目前所處的利率週期階段，我認為其他利率是固定的。

Okay, Tito, I heard the first part of the question, but the second was a bit confusing here, but I will try to answer here. First, in fixed income, it's important to mention that for retail clients, we are in the highest ever select rate in almost 20 years, so we are in the high level, highest level of the cycle.

好的，Tito，我聽到了問題的第一部分，但是第二部分有點令人困惑，但我會盡量在這裡回答。首先，在固定收益方面，值得一提的是，對於零售客戶而言，我們目前處於近 20 年來最高的選擇利率水平，因此我們正處於週期的最高水平。

So in the perception of the clients, they never had interest rates, but interest rates that is so, that's as high as now. So why it's important to mention that because clients don't go longer in duration when that happens, if this is loop in the interest rate curve. So what we are seeing is that increasing in volume, but a decreasing ROA given that duration profile.

所以在客戶看來，他們以前從未有過利率，但現在的利率卻如此之高。所以，之所以要提到這一點，是因為當這種情況發生時，如果利率曲線出現循環，客戶的期限就不會延長。因此，我們看到的是交易量增加，但考慮到持續時間，資產回報率卻在下降。

So when interest rate starts falling or the interest rate has a more normal shape, we may see the duration going higher again, and they are way increasing. But that's a bit of the dynamics of fixed income right now. And what can change that over the second half of the year is the DCM market and the primary offerings that may go to market if The pipeline goes as, it is because of the new tax regulations.

所以當利率開始下降或利率走勢趨於正常時，我們可能會看到久期再次上升，而且它們正在大幅增加。但這就是目前固定收益市場的一些動態。而下半年可能改變這一局面的，是債務資本市場以及如果融資管道按計劃推進，可能進入市場的首批產品，這都得益於新的稅收法規。

So a lot of primary options attract clients and we may see they get longer in duration again. So basically, we expect the fixed income line to keep your performance well and depending on the primary market in this end, we may see this number a bit higher.

因此，許多主要選項會吸引客戶，我們可能會看到它們的持續時間再次延長。所以基本上，我們預計固定收益線將保持良好的業績，並且根據該領域的一級市場情況，我們可能會看到這個數字略高一些。

Arna Shirazi, City Arno.

Arna Shirazi，Arno 市。

Hi all. I have two questions here. My first one is related to no people related expenses. We saw 38% year on year increase. I know that it was explained by marketing and also tech technology, but it seemed a little bit too much for me and also the second one is related to tax.

大家好。我有兩個問題。我的第一項支出與人員無關。我們看到年增了38%。我知道這可以用行銷和科技手段來解釋，但這對我來說似乎有點太複雜了，而且第二個問題還與稅收有關。

How would the tax increase, especially on offshore funds has been involved and what drove the positive income tax rate for this quarter? Thank you.

稅收增加，特別是對離岸基金的稅收增加，具體涉及哪些方面？是什麼因素導致了本季所得稅稅率為正？謝謝。

Okay, thank you for your question. First here talking about SG&A, we had a lot of investments in marketing. We had some events that are the first time that we're doing the size that we did. We had the B2B experience is event for all our IFA's network outside of Brazil where we announced some important measures for the year.

好的，謝謝你的提問。首先說說銷售、一般及行政費用，我們在行銷方面投入了許多資金。我們舉辦了一些規模空前的活動。我們在巴西以外的所有 IFA 網路成員中舉辦了 B2B 體驗活動，並在活動中宣布了今年的一些重要措施。

And second is the GAFF is an agribusiness event here in Brazil that we sponsored, and it's very important to us because we get closer to the clients that issue tax exempt notes, corporations that are able to issue tax exempt notes. Also, investments in markets to get our reputation a bit more stronger and more visible over all brands and newspapers and etc.

其次，GAFF 是我們贊助的巴西農業綜合企業盛會，這對我們來說非常重要，因為我們可以藉此機會更接近發行免稅票據的客戶，也就是能夠發行免稅票據的公司。此外，我們也在市場上進行投資，以增強我們的聲譽，提高我們在所有品牌、報紙等媒體上的知名度。

In terms of technology, is one of events that we did in terms of cloud and other kinds of tech, and talking about the trend over the year and keep in mind the next quarter we have the, our main event of the year, the expert. So also another quarter if no people expenses that are higher than comparison quarter over quarter.

就技術而言，我們舉辦的活動之一是關於雲端運算和其他技術，並討論了過去一年的趨勢。請記住，下個季度我們將舉辦年度主要活動—專家研討會。因此，如果下一個季度的人員支出沒有高於上一季度，那麼情況也是如此。

And moving to tax rates, I think we talked in a few opportunities that given the dynamic of the market and the product mix. If the market making activity and secondary market a bit more stronger than investment banking and broker dealer revenues, that our tax rates should be trading around 15%, and that was basically the case. Now we close at 14 something over the last 12 months.

至於稅率問題，我認為我們已經討論了一些機會，考慮到市場動態和產品組合。如果做市活動和二級市場比投資銀行和經紀交易商的收入更強勁一些，那麼我們的稅率應該在 15% 左右，而事實也基本如此。現在我們過去 12 個月的收盤價是 14 美元左右。

And if the product mix, keep the way it is, that's the number that we may see, over the year.

如果產品組合保持不變，那麼我們今年可能會看到這樣的數字。

Thank you. But as related to offshore tax, the potential increase what the thoughts?

謝謝。但就離岸稅收而言，潛在的成長是什麼？大家怎麼看？

Okay, perfect. I think as any other financial institution in Brazil, there is a lot of ways to plan our tax structure, and we are confident that the impact will be marginal in your business. Thank you.

好的，完美。我認為，與巴西其他金融機構一樣，我們有很多方法可以規劃我們的稅務結構，我們相信這對貴公司業務的影響將是微不足道的。謝謝。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

Neha Agarwala，匯豐銀行。

Thank you for taking my question. Just once again, sorry to go back to this, but the corporate net new money was significantly weak versus what we saw in the scene in the previous quarters. I understand the volatility, but anything specific this quarter that led to this big decline compared to previous quarter? And should we expect more of that next quarter or was this like a one-off trend with some one-off moves?

感謝您回答我的問題。再次抱歉提及此事，但與前幾季相比，企業淨新增資金明顯疲軟。我理解市場波動，但本季有什麼具體原因導致了與上一季相比的大幅下滑嗎？那麼我們是否應該預期下個季度會出現更多類似的情況，還是這只是一次性的趨勢和一些一次性的波動？

And my second question is, you talked a bit about the the fee-based model, and that's only 5% of your AUC and that's been growing. Can you talk a bit more about what impact we could see from that on your day rate, if any? Thank you.

我的第二個問題是，您稍微談到了按服務收費的模式，這只佔您 AUC 的 5%，而且這個比例還在增加。您能否詳細談談這可能會對您的日薪產生什麼影響（如果有的話）？謝謝。

Okay, thank you. Thank you, Neha. I will take the first one. I think the corporate dynamics is a bit better what I said. If the banks that give credit to their clients keep asking for investments in terms of reciprocity, we may suffer, a bit more in the third or 4Q, since we are not going to this business.

好的，謝謝。謝謝你，尼哈。我選第一個。我認為我之前對公司動態的描述要準確一些。如果向客戶提供信貸的銀行繼續要求客戶進行投資以換取互惠，我們可能會遭受損失，尤其是在第三季或第四季度，因為我們不打算涉足這個行業。

But also, it's important to remember that the ROA of this money is extremely low. So, the impacts in revenues to losing that money, they are not relevant. And that's very hard to predict what we are going to see over the next quarters as you say, these are more volatile cash.

但同時也要記住，這筆資金的報酬率非常低。因此，損失這筆錢對收入的影響並不重要。正如你所說，很難預測未來幾季的情況，這些現金波動性更大。

Hi. this is Thiago. Thank you for your question. I will take the second part. When you think about fee based model, I believe there is an evolution about the modern Brazil. If we get the US market, for example, today, if you look in terms of AUC is 70-30, but in terms of revenues is more like fifty-fifty, okay. In Brazil, as I mentioned, it's still very small, okay, but it is growing, as I mentioned in the presentation.

你好，我是蒂亞戈。謝謝你的提問。我將負責第二部分。當你思考收費模式時，我認為現代巴西正在經歷一場變革。例如，如果我們以美國市場為例，今天，從 AUC 來看，雙方的份額是 70-30，但從收入來看，雙方的份額更像是五五開，好吧。正如我剛才提到的，在巴西，這個行業仍然很小，但是它正在發展，正如我在演講中提到的那樣。

Today we are prepared for to offer to our clients, any kind of model, consultancy, fee based , IFA model, transactional based model. We can serve our clients in different ways and charge in different ways, okay? So we are Agenoski and we offer what's best for our clients. What we expect for the next years, as I mentioned at the beginning of the year, this year, was to grow, I would say from 3%, 4% to 7%, 8%.

今天，我們已做好準備，向客戶提供任何類型的模式，包括諮詢模式、收費模式、獨立財務顧問模式、交易模式等。我們可以用不同的方式為客戶提供服務，也可以用不同的方式收費，好嗎？我們是 Agenoski，我們為客戶提供最好的服務。正如我年初所提到的，我們預計未來幾年，也就是今年，成長率將從 3%、4% 提高到 7%、8%。

Okay, so, it's growing and but it's going to be a long journey here. It's not going to happen like from one day to the other, but we'll grow. And again, we are the best platform to offer all the models to our clients, and we believe being agnostic to models is a real differentiation to serve our clients better.

好的，它正在發展，但這將是一段漫長的旅程。這不會一蹴而就，但我們會成長。再次強調，我們是為客戶提供所有模型的最佳平台，我們相信對模型持中立態度是更好地服務客戶的真正差異化優勢。

But thinking about revenues, if you look only the take rate, it goes down a little bit, not a lot, but it goes down, okay, but usually it comes with a higher share of wallet. So usually when we start to serve a client through a fee based model or through consolidation of funds outside of XP, usually the AUC or the wallet or all the money that we oversee if it's not 100% here, because today we offer that model we can consolidate what's outside of XP.

但從收入的角度來看，如果只看分成率，它會略微下降，雖然不多，但確實會下降，好吧，但通常情況下，它會伴隨著更高的錢包份額。所以通常情況下，當我們開始透過收費模式或透過整合 XP 以外的資金來為客戶提供服務時，通常是 AUC、錢包或我們監管的所有資金（如果這些資金不是 100% 在這裡），因為今天我們提供這種模式，我們可以整合 XP 以外的資金。

Usually you make more money or I would say, equal money in terms of revenue because you increase the size of the wallet. Okay, so I would say if in the next quarters or years we start to see the tech rate going a little bit down but at a very slow pace, but the share of wallet per client will increase and we compensate the lower tech rate.

通常情況下，你的錢包鼓起來，收入就會增加，或至少收入不會減少。好的，所以我想說，如果在接下來的幾個季度或幾年裡，我們開始看到技術費率略有下降，但速度非常緩慢，而每個客戶的錢包份額將會增加，我們將彌補技術費率的下降。

Very clear. Thank you so much.

非常清楚。太感謝了。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú BBA.

Pedro Leduc，伊塔烏工商管理學士。

Okay, good evening, everyone. Thank you so much for the call and taking the question. I would like to explore the gross margin a little bit more, expanded, QoQ and I try to look at the moving pieces here, IFA commission incentives, nicely diluted.

好的，各位晚上好。非常感謝您接聽電話並回答我的問題。我想更深入地探討一下毛利率，包括季度環比毛利率，並嘗試分析其中的變動因素，例如IFA佣金激勵措施，這些激勵措施已被很好地稀釋。

So I was trying to dig into this trend a little bit more, what drove it if it was related to maybe the lower place of that new money or the mix of your revenue movements, or more equities, less fixed income, just trying to get a sense of what is driving this cross margin expansion and how to think about it in the second half. Thank you.

因此，我試圖更深入地了解這一趨勢，是什麼因素推動了這一趨勢，例如是否與新資金的較低水平、收入變動的組合、股票增加、固定收益減少等有關，只是想了解是什麼因素推動了這種交叉利潤率的擴張，以及在下半年應該如何看待它。謝謝。

Hi Leduc. Thank you for your question. I think here, first talking about some events. As we said before, the expected credit losses should be trading a bit slower than the last quarter, and that trend should remain like that around BRL9 million to BRL100 million and the second point was a bit higher than average sales tax, and that should go back to the average and not expect the number to go to be as high as that.

你好，Leduc。謝謝你的提問。我認為，首先應該談談一些事件。正如我們之前所說，信貸損失的成長速度預計將比上一季略慢，並且這一趨勢應該會保持在 900 萬至 1 億雷亞爾左右。第二個點是銷售稅略高於平均水平，但應該會回歸平均水平，預計不會再像之前那麼高了。

And the margin should go as normalizing when you look in the last 12 months. Yeah, and the channel mix is also important to mention, and as the internal so far keep growing, but also that's a trend that you're going to see improving over quarters. But if you look at the last 12 months, that's the pace. That should be expecting for the rest of the year. Thank you.

如果觀察過去 12 個月的情況，利潤率應該會趨於正常化。是的，頻道組合也值得一提，而且目前內部頻道數量持續增長，但這也是一種趨勢，你會看到它在接下來的幾季裡有所改善。但如果你看看過去 12 個月，那就是這個速度。今年剩下的時間裡，情況應該都會如此。謝謝。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉。

What is it in recent opportunities, you mentioned that the B2C productivity has been much stronger than the B2B, right? So, the B2C has been a large focus, recently and you standardized, probably an approach for selling and for the sales team, right? So seems more well-structured right now. When it comes to the B2B, I think the productivity has deteriorated like over the years.

在最近的機會中，您提到B2C的生產力比B2B強得多，對嗎？所以，最近 B2C 一直是你們的重點，你們可能已經制定了一套標準化的銷售方法，用於銷售和銷售團隊，對嗎？所以現在看起來結構更清楚了。就 B2B 領域而言，我認為其生產力近年來有所下降。

So, I want to hear from you first if you're seeing net outflows from this channel from the B2B and secondly, if you could tell us a bit your diagnostic right on the B2B channel if you need a higher focus right now to maybe refresh or review this model, so. This, has been in the press recently regarding M&A's on the advisory offices, a lot of mandates would be good to hear from you, the diagnostic. Thank you.

所以，首先我想聽聽你們的意見，看看你們是否發現 B2B 渠道出現淨流出；其次，能否請你們簡單介紹一下你們對 B2B 渠道的診斷，看看你們現在是否需要更加重視這個渠道，比如更新或重新審視一下這個模式。最近媒體一直在報道諮詢機構的併購情況，很想聽聽你們的診斷意見。謝謝。

Thank you for the question. As we have said in the past, for us it's not, one channel or the other. We believe in having multiple channels, for, different reasons, but when we look at the B2B channel, the B2Bchannel specifically.

謝謝你的提問。正如我們過去所說，對我們來說，這不是非此即彼的問題。我們相信應該擁有多個管道，原因各不相同，但當我們審視 B2B 管道時，特別是 B2B 管道。

As you mentioned, the [Perucic] was very low. It's too low when compared like 22 years ago, one year and a half or more ago, but it's getting back, it's improving, bit by bit. It's not going to change a lot from one quarter to the other, but it's improving.

正如你所提到的，[佩魯西奇] 非常低。與 22 年前、一年半前甚至更久以前相比，現在的水平太低了，但它正在恢復，正在一點一點地改善。從一個季度到另一個季度，情況不會有太大變化，但正在改善。

So everything that we have been done, a lot of efforts and energy that we have put on the channel since last the end of last year and more specifically at the beginning of this year it's paying off and we are starting to see the performance of B2B channel improving. So that's why we are confident on the BRL20 billion, okay.

所以，自去年年底以來，特別是今年年初以來，我們為這個管道投入了大量的努力和精力，這些努力和精力正在取得成效，我們開始看到 B2B 管道的業績有所改善。所以這就是為什麼我們對200億雷亞爾的目標充滿信心的原因。

Okay, so you just a follow up, so you don't need a refresh or a review on this, the way you operate in this model, right, as you did in the bit you see.

好的，所以你只是需要跟進一下，你不需要對這個模型進行回顧或複習，對吧，就像你剛才看到的那部分一樣。

But it's just normal evolution you have like to evolve the model, we just announced back in on the B2B experience, the big event that we do annually for the B2B channel. Al Jazeera was in Mendoza, and we announced some changes on the way of serving clients.

但這只是正常的演變過程，就像要演進模型一樣，我們剛剛宣布回歸 B2B 體驗，這是我們每年為 B2B 頻道舉辦的大型活動。半島電視台當時在門多薩，我們​​宣布了服務客戶方式的一些變化。

So I would say minimal standards of serving our clients, so allocation, number and ways, points of contact with the customers, and so I would say more like a. A franchisee model where we have a minimal standards and we just announced that like two months ago.

所以我認為，服務客戶的最低標準，包括資源分配、數量和方式、與客戶的聯絡點等等，更像是…我們採用加盟模式，設定了最低標準，這項措施我們大約兩個月前才剛宣布。

Okay, we're at the time. So, the name of the company, I'd like to thank you all for participating in our second quarter of 2025 earnings call. Any further questions will be more than welcome. Just look for the RR team and, we keep in touch and see you soon. Thank you very much.

好的，我們現在到了這個時間點。好了，我是公司負責人，感謝各位參加我們2025年第二季財報電話會議。歡迎提出任何其他問題。請尋找 RR 團隊，我們會保持聯繫，期待很快見到你。非常感謝。