West Bancorporation Inc (WTBA) 2008 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to the West Bancorporation second quarter 2008 earnings conference call.

All participants will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity for you to ask questions at the end of today's presentation. (OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS) Please note the conference is being recorded.

Now, I'd like to turn the conference over to Mr. Doug Gulling. Mr. Gulling?

Yes, thank you, welcome, everybody, appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

With me is Tom Stanberry, our Chairman and CEO and Brad Winterbottom, President of West Banc and I'll begin with our fair disclosure statement. Comments made during this conference may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking information is based upon certain underlying assumptions, risks, and uncertainties. Because of the possibility of change in the underlying assumptions, actual results could differ materially from these forward-looking statements. The Company undertakes no obligation to revise or update such statements to reflect current events or circumstances after this call, or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events.

Again, thanks for joining us and I'm going to begin by spending a few minutes talking about a few of the positives this quarter, talk about some of the negatives, and then one other issue, and then I'll turn it over to Brad and Tom; and I do want to point out that we've got a little different, as you noticed a little different timetable for releasing our earnings and our 10Q. We decided to do them both pretty much simultaneously this quarter and we'll probably do that going forward.

As far as the second quarter of '08 was concerned, net interest income continued to run higher than it has in the prior year, both for the second quarter and the first six months, and that's primarily due to higher net interest margin; and that is the result of a mix in our earning assets. We have fewer investments outstanding than we did a year ago, and those dollars pretty much went dollar for dollar into the loan portfolio. So going from a lower earning asset to a higher earning asset, and of course in addition, with the decline in the interest rates that started last September, our cost of funds are quite a bit lower than they were a year ago, and have dropped quicker than the yield on our earning assets.

Our non-interest income is slightly higher, although the results among the various individual categories are somewhat mixed. For the second quarter, non-interest income is about 134,000 or about 3% higher than it was a year ago. Most of that increase is in the area of gain on the sale of secondary market loans, and that's the same factor for the first six months; and I think as we've talked about in prior quarters, we've added more originators to the bank, and as a result, volume is up and income is up in that area.

The one area that's down a little bit in the fee income area would be the investment advisory fees, and most of that decline is attributable to declining assets in our Vintage mutual funds. Also, for the first six months of this year, our loan growth has been very good. I'm sure Brad will talk a little bit more about the components of that, but for the first six months of this year loans were up $74 million whereas last year for the same period, loan growth was $33 million.

As far as a few items that are not as positive, we do have higher provision for loan losses this period compared to last year, the our non-performings are up, charge-offs are up. The second quarter was not as significant as the first quarter. Our provision in the second quarter was a $1 million. We did write-off some loans that we provided for in the first quarter, and then we've had a couple other loans related to the real estate industry move into the non- performing area. And then we do have higher expenses this year compared to last year also.

In the compensation area, year-over-year compensation expense is up about 6%, not quite 6%. We have 14 more people in the Company at June 30th this year than we did a year ago and 11 of those are in either sales or customer relationship positions. I think all of you realize what's going on with the FDIC premium, and so that's up quite a bit this year over prior years. Our professional fees are up mostly in the legal area.

REO expense is up and it's not so much that our REO expense this year is extravagant, if you will, it totals about $100,000 so far for the first six months, but when we compare to the prior period, we had a big recovery in the second quarter of '07. So on a comparison basis it's a negative variance. And then lastly, in the expense area, marketing is up quite a bit over last year, but we have purposely spent more money on new product offerings this year.

I want to talk about the concept of other than temporarily impaired just a moment. Again, that's a concept that's getting a lot more attention this year than it has in prior years, but if you have not seen our 10Q, we filed it this morning and so that's out on the web; but in that we have a paragraph that's describing a situation with a pool trust preferred security that we have. It's--we bought it for $5 million when it was priced at the end of June, we got a price of $0.25 on the $1.00. That's really due--based on more of a liquidation value according to the people that priced it.

In that pool, there are 72 or 73 companies, 58 of them are banks, the reminder are insurance companies. There are five banks that are in deferral right now, but we had a third party, we had an investment banker that sold us the investment do an extensive cash flow analysis and at this point in time, that analysis shows that there is enough cash flow to cover our principle and interest payments. So we at this time do not consider that to be other than temporarily impaired. That can change, obviously, as you know, and so we'll be watching that as we move forward.

At this time, I'll turn it over to Brad to talk a little more about loans.

Good afternoon.

I'm looking at year-end '07 to June 30, 2008 numbers, and the net loans at 12-31-07 was about $975 million round numbers. We ended the quarter at a $1.47 billion, so decent growth there. I would say 60% of that growth has come from the C&I area, the balance of it would be in the real estate secured area. C&I would be existing tests, we've had a couple of existing customers make some acquisitions, and those were funded that helped the growth. And I believe that some of our better commercial real estate borrowers acquired some additional property and we were--we financed those projects, so--and then the pipeline for third quarter looks to be decent.

Again, some good C&I business, and a couple of real estate projects that we've looked at and committed to and they've accepted and we'll begin funding those. We're still seeing a little bit of payoff on some investment quality real estate assets on our books and we had some of those payoff in the second quarter. We'll have a few more in the third quarter, but quite frankly, volume has been good to continue the growth pattern.

At the end of the quarter, I think our non-performing assets grew. Doug mentioned we took a late first quarter allocation and then 4 out of that $5 million was charged--about 4.2 of that $5 million we charged off in the second quarter. We still have a special allocation for that relationship and we're managing it, but quite frankly, where some of those assets are selling and we received updated appraisals, and those assets that are selling are at or near the new appraised values. So we're keeping our fingers crossed and monitoring that, and a little too early to say if additional charge-off there will be required, but we are monitoring that.

We've had a couple of other home builders, smaller home builders that had some spec inventory, have not moved until we've moved some of those assets in the non-accrual category. They're working hard to sell the homes. We think we've got decent margin in them. They've been running a little delinquent, and when I say little, less than 60 days, might be 30 days delinquent, so we've chosen to move those to non-accrual; and I guess that's kind of the highlights of the loan portfolio.

On the deposit side, Tom will probably talk a little more there, but we've the SmartyPig assets continue to grow and we had a sales campaign for a new checking account called Reward Me Checking which offers a higher interest rate subject to the consumer doing about three things, and that side of it has helped pick up some additional core deposits.

We'll turn it over to Tom for a moment.

Let me talk to you about WB Capital and the Asset Management Company.

If you look at the 10Q, and you look at quarter-over-quarter numbers, net income was down a little bit, non-interest income was down quarter-over-quarter, and correspondingly net income was down. As Doug indicated it was largely attributable to a decline in assets under management in the Vintage Fund family. Our primary user of the Vintage Fund family is another bank and that bank has continued to see assets in its investment center and its trust department exit, and we've not been able to overcome the decline in assets with that bank with the growth in other banks.

Our separately managed account business is flat quarter-over-quarter, which based on the investment environment today I think is good. We certainly would like to see some growth, but right now holding on to assets has been quite a task. Investment performance in all areas of fixed income and equity is consistent with the benchmarks and peer groups that we measure ourselves against. So we do not have concerns right now about any of our investment performance.

If you look at the six-month numbers versus the six-month year ago, net income was up. Again you see the non-interest income or revenue is down slightly. Net interest income or I'm sorry, interest net income is up primarily due to additional cost savings. So that segment of the overall business is holding its own in the areas over which it has direct control in asset gathering and asset intention. It is losing some assets in Vintage funds and overall the impact is a slight decline in net income.

Doug mentioned deposits. As you can see from the mix of deposits, our core deposits are down, notwithstanding the three new products that we introduced in the second quarter. One at the very end of the quarter and has really not had much of a chance to catch on with consumers, but in the second quarter the SmartyPig online investment program for which we act as the bank, has seen a significant increase in number of new applications and the SmartyPig continues to grow. So we are collecting assets there or deposits there.

The Reward Me Checking account which Brad mentioned is a high interest transactional checking account which requires a user of that account or the owner of that account on a monthly basis to perform three functions. One, accept electronic statements; two, have an automatic deposit or automatic debit in or out of their account; and three, make at least 12 non-pin based debit card transactions with their debit card during that 30-day period. We had very good growth in that during the opening period, ran a sales campaign which ended on the fourth of July and it was very successful.

Our cost of funds for that factoring in the debit card revenue that we received, the interchange revenue that we received off debit cards which is a non-pin type of transaction functions as a credit card, and the mix of accounts that meet the criteria to which we pay the full 5% versus the percentage that do not meet the criteria to which we pay our standard checking with interest percentage, has kept our cost of funds right at where we had originally targeted so that's turned out to be good deposit gatherer for us.

We've introduced a relationship CD that gives our customers an additional 50 basis point yield on the CD if they have a relationship transaction account with us, a checking account. That, as I said has just started. It seems to be gaining some momentum, and we think that that will bring in some deposits, but as likely all banks that you're talking to will tell you gathering core deposits in this environment has been difficult.

First, just because of the interest differential between some of the non-banks versus banks and I think most recently because of concerns that depositors have with deposits over the $100,000 or $250,000 limit for FDIC insurance. We are proactively talking and communicating with our customers that are in that position with deposits in excess of the FDIC limits and assuring them of the relationship type of business that we do as well as the capital levels and doing everything we can to maintain those deposit relationships, but we expect those questions will continue as we see other bank failures or other banks in distress around the country.

Why don't I stop there and turn it back to you, Doug.

Okay, thanks.

I think at this time, we'll respond to any questions that you may have.

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS)

Our first question comes from David Frank of Wayngard Asset Management.

Hello, gentlemen.

Hi, David.

Can you give us a little kind of update on what's happening in the residential construction market in Iowa?

Sure.

And I guess how that impacts your particular credits?

Well, I would say that one, the largest home builder in the state ceased doing business in late April.

That is--we're laughing here. Somebody spilled something and it doesn't smell very good in here. So if you hear chuckles we're laughing at each other here.

So the largest home builder in the State ceased doing business and I will say that there was a period in there where there's punch lists or half built custom homes that didn't get finished it's created a little bit of controversy; however, I think the quarter ended 06/30, I think the multiple listing showed that home sales were down about 10%, 15%?

15%.

About 15% for the quarter. We have --

That's in Des Moines?

That would be in the greater Des Moines area.

Okay.

Prices are probably off in the 5% to 10% range would be my estimation, but there's still some activity. It's just, I think the urgency seems to be taken away from the buyers. Having said that, we've got a couple of projects over in Iowa City, one of those relating to that home builder and they had an inventory of specs and over about a 60-day period, maybe 50% of those spec units were absorbed primarily from medical school residents and graduate school type of folks.

How much did they have to discount those units from their expected price to move them?

Less than 3% of listing.

Right now if you looked at that entire project, the sale price versus listing price is at 97.3%, and of the last 10 units, we have 10 sales pending. We have 27 unsold units, 10 sales pending right now, and of those 10, only two were discounted from their list price. The other two sold at the list price.

Can you give me a days, or I guess months inventory in Des Moines of homes, new or existing or both?

I can give you--Tom's going to go, he thinks he has that exact information, so I won't guess, or give you my gut feel.

What do you see on the horizon over the next 12 months? Do you think it's stabilizing, do you see further deterioration? I know--is there a bifurcation between type of properties?

No, I don't think you'll see a lot of compression in price. I can tell you that most of the--not most, every home builder that we've talked to whether they're a customer or we just happen to know them and they're doing business across the street or wherever, they will tell you they have not done any new spec homes or have done only a handful in areas where it's been decent and there are some neighborhood areas that are still doing okay.

So that inventory is getting absorbed. So I don't see a lot more price compression, but I do think sales will continue to be soft. I think the urgency of the consumer has kind of dissipated because if they're going to upgrade, they're going to have to sell their house and they're hearing and reading the newspaper, and so we'll stick our house on the market and maybe if we get a bite, we'll come back.

It sounds like what drives the market is kind of the first time home buyer buying an affordable product.

That has been a decent market and has not been beat up very much.

Okay, let me ask one more question and I'll step back and let somebody else ask questions before.

Okay.

I may step back later. Commercial real estate.

Yes.

What, in all types, retail, office, warehouse, what have you you, what's your feeling on commercial real estate both in Iowa City and Des Moines?

Iowa City continues to be kind of the oasis and doing okay to maybe better than okay. Des Moines, quite frankly, we're not doing a lot of spec retail area type of transactions. Ours have been, most of our activity is owner occupied type of real estate or some low income housing, tax credit deals that folks that we've done business with for 20 years and have substantial where with all behind them.

Thank you.

To go back to your question about single family housing. Right now, there are 1,500 homes that are in the Des Moines MSA, about 1,500 homes are on the MLS. The--one of the things I was looking for, sales versus new listings on the MLS, so is the inventory increasing or decreasing? We had just about hit an equilibrium point, remember there was a 90-day moratorium on foreclosures that most of these lenders were working with, and consequently, there was not much activity in the foreclosure arena.

Those have now come on the market, so new listings have popped up again, ahead of sales. It will be interesting to see how the bail out bill affects that because lenders will have the opportunity to decide whether or not to writedown their loans versus foreclosing on their loans and using the FHA bail out; but the new listings versus sales had just about reached equilibrium and now we'll have to see how the absorption of homes for sale go once the bail out bill is fully implemented. But we have about 1,500 homes listed right now.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Kevin McLaughlin at Broker Dealer Financial Services.

Hi.

Hi, Kevin.

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

I don't remember ever seeing what percentage interest West Bancorporation held in SmartyPig and I was wondering if you could give us that, and also if you had any kind of a feeling for or any kind of report on the number of accounts that you've opened. If you were still running at $6,000 plus as an average savings goal , some of that information that you gave us in the last report, I thought it was 1,100 accounts that had been opened in something like the first five weeks of the program. Is that accurate? And if you could give us any feeling for the development geographically, where this is going, even domestically or internationally, I didn't know if you were getting any response outside the United States, etc.

Yes, SmartyPig opens about on average 15 accounts a day and so we're up in the 1,400, or 1,500 range. We have accounts in all 50 states and this is just a program just for the United States. It does not--this program does not go international.

Well the program that we're involved.

The program that we're involved is just for the United States.

And are there international programs that are being contemplated then or something?

Part of the long term strategy is to take it international and there's certainly been some inquiries from banks, actually European, Canadian, and Asian banks.

Okay. Go ahead.

Ultimately, it will expand. We wanted to make sure that we worked all of the bugs out of the new account system before we went to that next level. We'll stay--we will be the bank for only the domestic SmartyPig and if SmartyPig is able to produce a parallel relationship with a bank in some other geographic area, if it's international, it will not be us, as the bank. We'll still remain an investor of SmartyPig.

Okay, and are you still hitting that $6,000 plus average?

I think that's come down a little bit, but I think the average is more in the--I don't have that number off the top of my head but we had some large ones at the very beginning and those--it's come down a little bit.

Okay.

And then I didn't hear anything about the percentage interest, that West Bancorporation holds in SmartyPig. Can you make a disclosure there?

It's a minority interest at 18% level.

Okay. Very good. Well thanks, I appreciate it and I was happy to see the quarter that was reported. I think people have been nervous around here but I think that this is great relief especially with the reserve for loan losses being what it was in a tough environment so congratulations on a good quarter. Thank you.

Thanks, Kevin.

Our next question comes from Jason Werner at Howe Barnes.

Good afternoon.

Hi, Jason.

I wanted to start talking a little bit about the non-accruals. According to the release, you had $3.1 million residential development loan that moved over that was associated with the large Iowa home builder and I was kind of curious what caused that to kind of go over after it was originally you didn't move it over, what happened there?

Well at the end of the first quarter it was up-to-date but during the second quarter, they aren't making payments anymore.

Not only was it past due, but once they shuttered their operations on April 25, it was pretty clear that we weren't going to earn any more on that. We think we have close to adequate collateral. I think we have adequate collateral at this point but it was fairly clear that it needed to go to non-accrual.

What's that secured by? Is it raw land or is it developed lots or what is it?

Developed lots and raw land.

Okay.

And then in your comments, you'd mentioned there were a couple other home builders that you moved over. What was the dollar amount for other home builder stuff that was moved over to non-accrual that's apart from this relationship?

Approximately $1.1 million.

Okay. And those are--what's the collateral there, is it lots, land, or homes?

It would be completed spec units.

Completed speck units, okay.

And they are complete.

And what market are those in?

They're in Des Moines, in a western suburb.

Okay.

And could you guys give some color on the biofuel plant that you moved over? You said in the release that it was performing but the regulator made the originating bank put it on non-accrual. Could you give us some color on what was going on with that?

Well its less than 12 months in operations. It was examined by the national credit exam because of the participation level. This was a participation purchased. We received notification from the examining group that all participants needed to move this to substandard and non-accrual. We have a term loan secured by equipment and a line of credit that is secured by receivables in inventory.

The line of credit, actually both notes when we moved it to non-accrual were current, and they have made payments since then and we are applying them to principle. The line of credit is within the borrowing base with a decent amount of margin assets to support it. Because of input costs, they've asked for an increase and we have declined and so has everyone else, so if--they're looking for another source.

In the meantime, they have cash reserves to help their operations over a period of time; but obviously, right in today's market, their end product is--they aren't selling enough of it at a profitable margin that cause concern from the examining body.

Does that answer your question?

Yes. So I mean there is some signs of weakness here because of that?

Yes.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

With regard to the large Iowa home builder, obviously there's other pieces of that relationship that are still performing. I guess what's keeping those things--those still have some unit sales that are keeping it cash flowing or what's going on with the rest of that relationship?

Well, our entire exposure with those folks set--we've either charged it off or it's sitting in non-accrual or it's sitting in substandard. There is nothing out there that we have not put on the--our highest radar screen. The ones that are performing typically have other guarantors that's not affiliated with the ownership of the home builder that closed so they have outside investors that have signed significant guarantees and those folks have stepped up and made payments and are assisting in the liquidation of those assets. That would probably be two of the three.

The third one is that condominium project that we mentioned earlier that had about 18 closings over the next 60 days and we've gone through about half of that. So of that 60-day period.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

You kind of break it down into three categories. We've got two projects that are condominiums and town homes that are developed. One was a rehab project, one was new construction. Then we have some planned and developed land, and town homes and condominiums continue to sell.

They're priced at a price point and they're both in Iowa City and they're priced at a price point in the market that sells good locations and those continue to sell. The planned and developed land, the other partners have taken over at this point from the home builder and have honored their guarantees and continue to pay interest, and have sold 39 lots in one development--have a contract to sell 39 lots and in the raw dirt, again, the partners other than the home builder partners have continued to keep payments current and we're working on the project. In one case trying to refinance it and in another case just trying to sell lots.

Okay, on those two with the outside partners, you said you sold 39 lots. What did that do in terms of reducing the balance?

Well it makes a pretty significant dent in it, it doesn't reduce it entirely. It was a little more than half, there remains of land that is zoned for multi-family development and some land that is owned for commercial development, and at the current appraised value, we should be okay.

And that reduction, I mean, that's transpiring here in the third quarter.

Yes, that's not reflected in the second quarter numbers.

Okay.

It has not closed. We just finalized it actually yesterday.

Okay, and then the other piece, has there been any part of that sold at all or is that just current because of the other parties?

Yes, it's still current because of the other parties. One parcel has been sold, and I drove by it the other day actually, and it has grading equipment and it's being graded for development. I'm not aware of any other activity at this point. So part of it has been sold, most of it is still raw land.

The part that sold, did that bring the balance down significantly or what did that do to the balance?

Well it's sold but not closes at this point, so there has not been a balance reduction yet.

Okay, when would that expect to be closed?

We don't know for sure. I think it will close after--they finish due diligence and they have a firm contract at this point, but there were some conditions of grading and some streets and I suspect that we'll close after that's completed. And so I honestly don't have a good idea because I don't think the developer has a good idea yet, hopefully third quarter.

Okay.

And then in the 10Q, you had talked about impaired loans, and I think that you had said that there were $25 million, you back out the non-accruals, that left I think $11.8 million impaired. Obviously you have some of the stuff in that large builder. I'm just kind of curious what else was in that impaired category?

In the impaired category, it would be the loan we just talked about, the loan where we have a contract to sell the 39 lots, and then the town home and condominium projects down in Iowa City.

So that whole piece, that's all related to the Iowa home builder?

It does, but part of them are non-accrual and part of them are impaired.

Right. I mean--I guess is there anything else impaired that's not related to that project?

I don't believe so.

No.

No, it's all related to--the impaired part is all related to the large home builder.

Okay. So of that $18 million relationship 11 is kind of impaired and the rest is non-accruals?

Right.

Give or take, okay.

All right, now, in your prepared comments and in the 10Q, you talked about the loan growth compared to year-end. In terms of types of loans that were growing during the quarter, is that kind of similar? Is it mostly C&I stuff still?

I'd say it's about, about $35 million of it was commercial, $21 million was commercial real estate, and $15 million was one to four family.

That's what you gave for the six months.

Correct.

What was the second quarter part of it? I mean, is it similar proportions, is it kind of the same thing for both quarters?

I'd say it's probably another 60% to 65% C&I and the balance of it would be probably commercial real estate.

Okay.

Maybe a little bit of residential but I doubt it.

Part of the commercial Real Estate because most of the affordable housing tax credit deals that we are doing, tax credits were rewarded in the first quarter and those loans were made--the $15 million of one to four family that was the second quarter--primarily second quarter. So it's going to shift away from one to four and more toward commercial real estate and C&I.

Okay.

All right and then it sounded like pretty healthy pipeline, you had even said I think you expect similar growth.

Yes.

In the third quarter.

Correct.

Okay. What's your kind of thoughts on margin?

Obviously you had a nice quarter in terms of rebound or expansion in margin. Do you see more opportunities for margin to keep going up or do you see it holding steady or does it pull back a bit?

I don't think it expands from this point because we have been funding some of this loan growth particularly in June with more of the wholesale deposits either public funds or through the Cedars program and that's incrementally a little more expensive than the core deposits. We've got a Federal Home Loan Bank advance that's going to reprice in the second quarter and it's probably going to reprice higher.

In the third quarter.

In the third quarter, excuse me, yes, third quarter, and so it's not going to expand, might contract a few basis points.

Okay.

That's all I have for the moment. I'll step off and let somebody else take a shot.

Thanks, Jason.

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS)

We have a follow-up question from David Frank of Wayngard Asset Management.

Hello again.

Hi, David.

Can you give a total balances on construction loans, maybe by type, there's like commercial, residential, vertical building and then residential let's say lots and residential raw land? Some sort of categorization of your construction exposure by amount?

That's sitting right here.

We don't have that at our finger tips.

Let me see if I can get that. I don't have it sitting right here.

Okay, let me ask a couple extra questions and I'll hold on for that. The trust preferred, the $5 million par value you referred to?

Yes.

That's a CDL I take it?

Right. It's one of the Alesco pools, I think it's Alesco four--

10.

That's right, we looked at four.

And that is, what was its original rating when it was--?

We're in the tranch, it has an A minus rating.

Do you know how much subordination there was from that?

For us, let's see. We're the third tranch so there's three tranches.

It seemed like $0.25 on the $1.00 seemed much more dire of an impairment than I've seen elsewhere.

Well, it is.

There have been no trades other than one trade which was a trade by an acquiring bank, where the purchaser--the seller had Alesco in the portfolio and it was mark-to-market in the acquisition and they immediately sold it and that's the only trade that's current for some time. So the pricing services were working off of that. If you look at our tranch, and take all five banks that are in deferral and treat them as total defaults with no recovery, we still have excess collateral before there would be a default of about $125 million, so we've got--we think we have significant coverage. Now, if the wheels come off the bank market and there's a significant amount of additional deferrals we're going to erode through that number fairly quickly, but we have significant coverage before we would actually see a default.

Okay, that's helpful information there.

Do you have any comment on potential expansion plans? I know maybe 12 months ago you brought up Arizona as a potential place to expand. What are your thoughts on expansion as we sit here today?

Right now, until we see a dramatic change in the market both in Iowa as well as in any of the other places that we looked at including Arizona, we're going to stick to our two core markets in Des Moines and Iowa City. We have a branch, I think grading has started, new construction project in one of the second ranked suburbs of Des Moines on the west side, a high growth suburb that we'll be putting a branch in that should be opening in--no later than February of 2009; but we've put all of our other branch expansions on hold and really are going to focus on the two markets we're in right now and getting our ROA and ROE back up to where we're comfortable.

Okay.

No luck on the construction exposure break down?

No. We don't have that readily available, David.

Is that something you might be able to put out at a press release or put up on your website?

You know what? We'll work on it. We might have it by the time of the conference and we could include it and then that would be both on the website as well as part of the presentation.

That would be great. Thanks a lot for your time.

(OPERATOR INSTRUCTIONS)

It seems we have no further questions. I'd like to turn the conference over to management for any closing remarks.

Okay.

Well, we don't have anything else to add or comment upon at this time, and so we just appreciate you joining us today and we'll visit with you next quarter. Thanks.

Be careful.

The conference has concluded. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.