Vertex Energy Inc (VTNR) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Vertex Energy Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, today's event is being recorded.

美好的一天，歡迎來到 Vertex Energy 第四季度和 2022 年全年收益電話會議。 （操作員說明）請注意，今天的活動正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the conference over to John Ragozzino, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

我現在想將會議轉交給投資者關係部的 John Ragozzino。請繼續。

Thank you. Good morning, and welcome to Vertex Energy's Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2022 Results Conference Call. Leading the call today are Chairman and CEO, Ben Cowart; Chief Financial Officer, Chris Carlson; and Chief Operating Officer, James Rhame. Also attending the call are Chief Strategy Officer, Alvaro Ruiz; Vice President, Bart Rice; and Vice President of Black Oil Operations, John Strickland.

謝謝。早上好，歡迎來到 Vertex Energy 的第四季度和 2022 年全年業績電話會議。今天主持電話會議的是董事長兼首席執行官 Ben Cowart；首席財務官克里斯·卡爾森；和首席運營官 James Rhame。出席電話會議的還有首席戰略官 Alvaro Ruiz；巴特賴斯副總裁；和黑油業務副總裁 John Strickland。

I want to remind you that management's commentary and responses to questions on today's conference call may include forward-looking statements, which, by their nature, are uncertain and outside of the company's control. Although these forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and beliefs, actual results may differ materially.

我想提醒您，管理層在今天的電話會議上發表的評論和對問題的回答可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述本質上是不確定的，並且不在公司的控制範圍內。儘管這些前瞻性陳述是基於管理層當前的預期和信念，但實際結果可能存在重大差異。

For a discussion of some of the risk factors that could cause actual results to differ, please refer to the Risk Factors section of Vertex Energy's latest annual and quarterly filings with the SEC. Additionally, please note that you can find reconciliations of the historical non-GAAP financial measures discussed during our call in the press release issued today. Today's call will begin with remarks from Ben Cowart, followed by an operational review from James Rhame and financial review from Chris Carlson. At the conclusion of the prepared remarks, we'll open the line for questions.

有關可能導致實際結果不同的一些風險因素的討論，請參閱 Vertex Energy 向美國證券交易委員會提交的最新年度和季度文件中的風險因素部分。此外，請注意，您可以在今天發布的新聞稿中找到我們電話會議期間討論的歷史非 GAAP 財務指標的對賬。今天的電話會議將從 Ben Cowart 的講話開始，隨後是 James Rhame 的運營審查和 Chris Carlson 的財務審查。在準備好的評論結束時，我們將打開問題熱線。

With that, I'll turn the call over to Ben.

有了這個，我會把電話轉給本。

Thank you, John, and good morning to those joining us on the call today. This morning, we issued a press release detailing our financial and operating results for the fourth quarter of 2022. We are pleased to report the continued safe and reliable operations with the improved financial and operating results, which exceeded our prior expectations. We feel these results reflect the true earnings potential of our conventional fuels business at the Mobile refinery facility, which contributed the majority of our fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA of $75.2 million.

謝謝你，約翰，早上好，今天加入我們的電話會議。今天上午，我們發布了一份新聞稿，詳細介紹了我們 2022 年第四季度的財務和運營業績。我們很高興地報告持續安全可靠的運營以及財務和運營業績的改善，這超出了我們之前的預期。我們認為這些結果反映了我們在莫比爾煉油廠的傳統燃料業務的真正盈利潛力，該業務貢獻了我們第四季度調整後 EBITDA 7520 萬美元的大部分。

Reported results benefited significantly for continued strength in conventional fuels refining margins. Increased market exposure following the expiration of our prior hedge positions beginning on September 30. Attractive refining deals of high-margin distillate products following the turnaround work performed in the third quarter.

報告的結果顯著受益於傳統燃料精煉利潤率的持續走強。在我們之前的對沖頭寸於 9 月 30 日到期後，市場敞口增加。在第三季度進行扭虧為盈後，高利潤餾分油產品的精煉交易頗具吸引力。

Operationally, we reported strong throughput volumes of approximately 78,000 barrels per day for the quarter, 5.4% ahead of our midpoint of our prior guidance issued in November. Our product yield profile and premium pricing for diesel and jet fuels drove a strong capture rate of 61%, which exceeded our prior outlook of 52% and generated very attractive refining profitability on a per barrel basis.

在運營方面，我們報告本季度的吞吐量強勁，約為每天 78,000 桶，比我們 11 月份發布的先前指引的中點高出 5.4%。我們的柴油和噴氣燃料的產品產量狀況和溢價定價推動了 61% 的強勁捕獲率，超過了我們之前 52% 的預期，並產生了非常有吸引力的每桶煉油盈利能力。

In addition, we made notable progress on several strategic initiatives aimed at streamlining our business. First, we continue to expand our team by adding experienced talent throughout our key areas of the business. Secondly, we recently completed the sale of our Heartland UMO business, enhancing our ability further to prioritize the optimization of our current refining business. And third, we have continued advancements of our construction of our RD conversion project for on-schedule mechanical completion by end of March, with carefully planned start-up early second quarter of this year.

此外，我們在旨在精簡業務的幾項戰略舉措方面取得了顯著進展。首先，我們通過在我們的關鍵業務領域增加經驗豐富的人才來繼續擴大我們的團隊。其次，我們最近完成了 Heartland UMO 業務的出售，進一步增強了我們優先優化當前煉油業務的能力。第三，我們繼續推進我們的 RD 轉換項目的建設，以便在 3 月底按計劃完成機械完工，並精心計劃在今年第二季度初啟動。

I'm proud of our employees and contractors who work together for the results achieved for 2022. The transition from our legacy operations to the advantaged position we find ourselves in today would not be possible without the team's relentless pursuit of our goals, while keeping safe and reliable operations as our highest priority.

我為我們的員工和承包商感到自豪，他們為 2022 年取得的成果而共同努力。如果沒有團隊不懈地追求我們的目標，同時保持安全，就不可能從我們的傳統業務過渡到我們今天所處的優勢地位和可靠的運營是我們的首要任務。

With that, I'd like to hand the call over to James Rhame, our Chief Operating Officer, who will provide a detailed update on our operations during the quarter, including a more detailed update on the status of our renewable diesel conversion project in Mobile. James?

有了這個，我想把電話轉給我們的首席運營官 James Rhame，他將在本季度提供我們運營的詳細更新，包括我們在 Mobile 的可再生柴油轉換項目狀態的更詳細更新.詹姆士？

Thank you, Ben, and good morning, everyone. I will begin with a brief report on our health, safety and environmental performance. During the fourth quarter of 2022, our mobile operations had 0 OSHA reportables, 0 environmental reportables and 0 process safety events. Our legacy operations saw 2 OSHA reportables, both moderate in nature with 0 environmental reportables.

謝謝你，本，大家早上好。我將首先簡要報告一下我們的健康、安全和環境績效。在 2022 年第四季度，我們的移動業務有 0 起 OSHA 報告、0 起環境報告和 0 起過程安全事件。我們的遺留業務有 2 項 OSHA 報告，均為中等性質，0 項環境報告。

Moving on to operational performance, beginning with our legacy business. Our Columbus refinery maintained safe and reliable operations during the fourth quarter and through the close of the recently announced divestiture. This is to the credit of our former Heartland employees and clearly demonstrates the quality of the team running those operations. We are proud of their contribution and grateful for the opportunity to have worked with them over the last 8 years.

轉向運營績效，從我們的傳統業務開始。我們的哥倫布煉油廠在第四季度和最近宣布的資產剝離結束期間保持安全可靠的運營。這是我們前 Heartland 員工的功勞，清楚地證明了運營這些業務的團隊的素質。我們為他們的貢獻感到自豪，並感謝有機會在過去 8 年中與他們共事。

In Louisiana, our Marrero operations also saw continued progress in improving plant reliability and performance in the fourth quarter, achieving strong run rates and 106% capacity utilization at the refinery. Mobile performed well despite challenging weather conditions and increased site activity around the RD conversion.

在路易斯安那州，我們的 Marrero 業務在第四季度在提高工廠可靠性和性能方面也取得了持續進展，煉油廠實現了強勁的運行率和 106% 的產能利用率。儘管天氣條件具有挑戰性並且圍繞 RD 轉換的站點活動增加，但 Mobile 仍然表現良好。

Fourth quarter throughput volumes at the Mobile refinery averaged 77,964 barrels per day or 104% of stated operating capacity, exceeding our initial guidance of 74,000 barrels per day and slightly ahead of our updated guidance of 77,000 barrels per day issued in January. We continue to process a crude diet consisting of WTI, LLS and local light sweet crudes. Total production of finished high-value like products such as gasoline, diesel and jet fuel represented approximately 74% of total fourth quarter production versus 69% in the third quarter of 2022, reflecting improved performance following the previously disclosed catalyst change in our distillate and reforming units.

莫比爾煉油廠第四季度的平均吞吐量為每天 77,964 桶，佔規定運營能力的 104%，超過了我們最初指導的每天 74,000 桶，略高於我們 1 月份發布的每天 77,000 桶的最新指導。我們繼續加工由 WTI、LLS 和當地輕質低硫原油組成的原油。汽油、柴油和噴氣燃料等高價值成品的總產量約佔第四季度總產量的 74%，而 2022 年第三季度為 69%，這反映出在之前披露的餾分油和重整催化劑更換後性能有所改善單位。

Our fuels-only gross profit per barrel during the quarter was $20.5 and driving a capture rate of 60.6% of the benchmark Gulf Coast 2-1-1 crack spread, slightly ahead of our guidance of 50% to 54%. The strength in our reported fuels-only gross profit per barrel and resulting capture rate versus the benchmark is a direct function of the strength we continue to see in refining margins for diesel and jet fuel, which contributed to the strong per barrel profitability reported. On a rent-adjusted basis, which we believe provides an additional layer of clarity around the per barrel refining economics for our conventional fuels business, gross profit per barrel was $16.54.

我們本季度的每桶純燃料毛利潤為 20.5 美元，捕獲率為基準墨西哥灣沿岸 2-1-1 裂縫價差的 60.6%，略高於我們 50% 至 54% 的指導值。我們報告的每桶純燃料毛利潤和由此產生的捕獲率與基準相比的優勢是我們繼續看到的柴油和噴氣燃料精煉利潤率的直接函數，這有助於報告強勁的每桶盈利能力。在租金調整的基礎上，我們認為這為我們的傳統燃料業務的每桶煉油經濟提供了額外的清晰度，每桶毛利潤為 16.54 美元。

Now turning to our renewable diesel conversion projects. I'm pleased to report that the development and construction activities are advancing as planned keeping the project on schedule for targeted mechanical completion by the end of the first quarter with anticipated initial production to follow early in the second quarter of this year.

現在轉向我們的可再生柴油轉化項目。我很高興地報告，開發和建設活動正在按計劃推進，使項目按計劃在第一季度末完成目標機械，預計將在今年第二季度初進行初始生產。

Our budgeted total project CapEx has been adjusted slightly from the $90 million to $100 million range that was reported to $110 million to $115 million. The upward cost revision reflects three primary drivers: extremely tight local labor market, incremental rental equipment, gaping costs necessary to ensure adherence to all site safety protocols along with some additional supply chain-related costs, which we chose to pay in order to keep the project on schedule.

我們的預算總項目資本支出已從報告的 9000 萬至 1 億美元範圍略微調整為 1.1 億至 1.15 億美元。上調成本反映了三個主要驅動因素：當地勞動力市場極其緊張、增加的租賃設備、確保遵守所有現場安全協議所需的差距成本以及一些額外的供應鏈相關成本，我們選擇支付這些成本以保持項目如期進行。

Despite inflationary pressures and supply chain complexity, we remain laser-focused on a safe, reliable and timely execution of the project. Progress towards these goals, we are prouder for, continues without compromise due to the cohesive efforts of all employees and contractors involved in the project. Notable milestones include the safe shutdown of the hydrocracker unit, completed as planned on January 6. With over 55% of the outage-related work completed, our crews have logged in excess of 290,000 more hours thus far with 0 reportable incidents to date, the performance of which I'm very pleased to share.

儘管存在通貨膨脹壓力和供應鏈複雜性，我們仍然專注於安全、可靠和及時地執行項目。由於參與該項目的所有員工和承包商的齊心協力，我們為實現這些目標而感到自豪，並在不妥協的情況下繼續取得進展。值得注意的里程碑包括加氫裂化裝置的安全關閉，該裝置已按計劃於 1 月 6 日完成。隨著超過 55% 的停電相關工作已完成，我們的工作人員迄今已記錄超過 290,000 小時，迄今已報告 0 起事件，我很高興與大家分享其中的表現。

While we have an understandable bias and our pride over our team's performance, the significance of what our legacy and mobile teams have accomplished throughout 2022 cannot be overstated. Continued prioritization of our strict safety standards and relentless focus on achieving our goals by each individual team member is something I'd like to take time to perfectly acknowledge and commend.

雖然我們對團隊的表現有一種可以理解的偏見和自豪感，但我們的傳統和移動團隊在整個 2022 年取得的成就的重要性怎麼強調都不過分。繼續優先考慮我們嚴格的安全標準和不懈地關注每個團隊成員實現我們的目標是我想花時間完全承認和讚揚的。

With that, I'd like to hand the call over to Chris Carlson, Chief Financial Officer, who will review our financial results for the quarter as well as provide an outlook for the first quarter of this year.

有了這個，我想把電話轉給首席財務官克里斯卡爾森，他將審查我們本季度的財務業績並提供今年第一季度的展望。

Thank you, James, and welcome to those joining us on the call today. For the 3 months ended December 31, 2022, Vertex reported net income of $44.4 million or $0.56 per share on a fully diluted basis versus a net loss of $5.3 million or $0.09 per share on a fully diluted basis in the fourth quarter 2021. We reported adjusted EBITDA of $75.2 million in the fourth quarter of 2022 versus $9.5 million in the prior year period.

謝謝你，詹姆斯，歡迎今天加入我們的電話會議。在截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日的三個月中，Vertex 報告的淨收入為 4440 萬美元或每股 0.56 美元（完全攤薄後的基礎上），而 2021 年第四季度的淨虧損為 530 萬美元或每股 0.09 美元（完全攤薄後的基礎上）。我們報告2022 年第四季度調整後的 EBITDA 為 7520 萬美元，而去年同期為 950 萬美元。

On a stand-alone basis, the Mobile refinery generated $78.6 million of adjusted EBITDA during the quarter versus a $500,000 loss in adjusted EBITDA during the third quarter of 2022.

單獨來看，莫比爾煉油廠在本季度產生了 7860 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA，而 2022 年第三季度調整後的 EBITDA 虧損了 500,000 美元。

Our legacy operations in the Black Oil and Recovery segment contributed $3.9 million adjusted EBITDA. Overall, fourth quarter results benefited from a continuation of consistent operational reliability and resulting throughput volumes. Continued strength in refined product margins, reflecting the robust conventional fuels market fundamentals we continue to see.

我們在黑油和採收部門的遺留業務貢獻了 390 萬美元的調整後 EBITDA。總體而言，第四季度的業績得益於持續穩定的運營可靠性和由此產生的吞吐量。精煉產品利潤率持續走強，反映了我們繼續看到的強勁的傳統燃料市場基本面。

The fourth quarter financial results include a loss related to continued backwardation in the crude and product markets in the amount of $9.6 million. A return to contango during the quarter helped offset a substantial portion of this charge relative to what we have seen in the prior two quarters, where backwardation charges came in at $17.9 million and $23.2 million, respectively.

第四季度的財務業績包括與原油和產品市場持續現貨溢價相關的損失 960 萬美元。與我們在前兩個季度看到的情況相比，本季度回歸正價差幫助抵消了這一費用的很大一部分，其中現貨溢價費用分別為 1,790 萬美元和 2,320 萬美元。

As of December 31, 2022, the company had total liquidity, including restricted cash of $146.2 million versus $122.4 million at the end of the prior quarter.

截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，公司的流動資金總額（包括受限制的現金）為 1.462 億美元，而上一季度末為 1.224 億美元。

Vertex had total net debt outstanding of $214.1 million at the end of the fourth quarter of 2022, including lease obligations of $100.1 million, implying a net debt to trailing 12-month adjusted EBITDA ratio of 1.3x as of December 31, 2022.

截至 2022 年第四季度末，Vertex 的未償還淨債務總額為 2.141 億美元，其中包括 1.001 億美元的租賃義務，這意味著截至 2022 年 12 月 31 日，淨債務與過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 的比率為 1.3 倍。

We continue to remain fully exposed to current robust refining margins with no fixed price hedge contracts currently in place.

我們繼續充分暴露於當前強勁的煉油利潤率，目前沒有固定價格對沖合同。

Subsequent to quarter end, we successfully closed on the planned divestiture of our Heartland UMO facility for total gross proceeds of $90 million. We are extremely pleased with the results of this sale, as we originally purchased this asset for $8.3 million in stock back in 2014. The net proceeds of $85 million are largely being used to finance the significant working capital required associated with our planned RD production with volumes of soybean oil feedstock currently being purchased in preparation of our April production start-up. A portion of the proceeds are also being directed towards the repayment of our $165 million term loan, which carries a 15.25% interest rate. We were able to make a prepayment of $11 million of the term loan, saving over $1.5 million in future interest expense on the loans through year-end 2023.

季度末後，我們成功完成了剝離 Heartland UMO 設施的計劃，總收益為 9000 萬美元。我們對此次出售的結果非常滿意，因為我們最初在 2014 年以 830 萬美元的股票購買了該資產。8500 萬美元的淨收益主要用於資助與我們計劃的研發生產相關的大量營運資金目前正在採購大量豆油原料，以準備我們 4 月份的生產啟動。部分收益還用於償還我們 1.65 億美元的定期貸款，該貸款的利率為 15.25%。我們能夠預付 1100 萬美元的定期貸款，到 2023 年年底為未來的貸款利息支出節省超過 150 萬美元。

Looking to the first quarter of 2023, we anticipate total throughput volumes at Mobile to be between 69,000 and 72,000 barrels per day, reflective of the shutdown in the hydrocracker to accommodate completion of the RD conversion project by the end of the quarter.

展望 2023 年第一季度，我們預計 Mobile 的總吞吐量將在每天 69,000 至 72,000 桶之間，這反映了加氫裂化裝置的關閉以適應在本季度末完成 RD 轉換項目。

OpEx per barrel is expected to be $3.85 to $4 per barrel for the quarter. And our capture rate on the benchmark Gulf Coast 2-1-1 crack spread is forecasted to be approximately 50% to 54%. We anticipate total capital expenditures for the first quarter to be between $30 million to $35 million.

本季度每桶 OpEx 預計為每桶 3.85 至 4 美元。我們對基準墨西哥灣沿岸 2-1-1 裂縫擴散的捕獲率預計約為 50% 至 54%。我們預計第一季度的總資本支出將在 3000 萬至 3500 萬美元之間。

I'd now like to turn the call back to Ben Cowart to provide some final comments before we open it up for Q&A.

我現在想把電話轉回給 Ben Cowart，在我們打開它進行問答之前提供一些最後的評論。

Thank you, Chris. The fourth quarter of 2022 sets a bar for financial and operating performance, which I'm extremely proud of. We continue to be encouraged by the fundamental outlook for refining margins on both the conventional and the renewable fuel side of the business. As we approach the start-up of our renewable fuels production in April, we look forward to establishing Vertex as an important player in the rapidly developing renewable fuels market.

謝謝你，克里斯。 2022 年第四季度為財務和經營業績設定了標杆，我對此感到非常自豪。我們繼續對業務的常規和可再生燃料方面的煉油利潤率的基本前景感到鼓舞。隨著我們在 4 月份接近啟動可再生燃料生產，我們期待將 Vertex 打造成快速發展的可再生燃料市場中的重要參與者。

We remain extremely enthusiastic about the outlook for potential profitability in this business, knowing each player in this market faces widely different circumstances that ultimately determines their individual performance. Therefore, we anticipate updating the market with a detailed look at our expectations for the business as we build confidence in our ability to accurately forecast and deliver on these expectations. Until then, we will continue to take a very measured, thoughtful and prudent approach to each decision we face as the RD business ramps.

我們仍然對這項業務的潛在盈利前景充滿熱情，因為我們知道這個市場中的每個參與者都面臨著截然不同的環境，這些環境最終決定了他們的個人表現。因此，我們希望通過詳細了解我們對業務的期望來更新市場，因為我們對自己準確預測和實現這些期望的能力充滿信心。在那之前，隨著研發業務的發展，我們將繼續對我們面臨的每一個決定採取非常慎重、深思熟慮和謹慎的方法。

On the conventional side of our business, the macro environment continues to be extremely robust. Product margins for lighter distillate products, including diesel and jet fuel, continue to maintain historically elevated levels fueled by the tight refining capacity and domestic inventory levels well below historic averages. As a result, we expect to continue to see strong financial performance on that side of the business. I'd like to thank all of you for joining us on this call this morning, and I look forward to being able to deliver another positive update on our next quarter performance.

在我們業務的傳統方面，宏觀環境仍然非常強勁。受煉油產能吃緊和國內庫存水平遠低於歷史平均水平的推動，包括柴油和噴氣燃料在內的輕質餾分油產品的產品利潤率繼續保持在歷史高位。因此，我們預計這方面的業務將繼續保持強勁的財務業績。我要感謝大家今天早上加入我們的電話會議，我期待能夠對我們下一季度的業績進行另一個積極的更新。

With that, we will open the line for questions. Operator?

有了這個，我們將打開問題熱線。操作員？

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) Today's first question comes from Manav Gupta with UBS.

我們現在開始問答環節。 （操作員說明）今天的第一個問題來自瑞銀的 Manav Gupta。

Congrats on a great quarter. My first question is you acquired the asset on April 1. You are showing a material improvement in capture in the last couple of quarters. Throughput has gone up. Help us understand some of the changes you have brought about, which are allowing you to learn from this experience and improve the performance of this asset.

祝賀一個偉大的季度。我的第一個問題是您在 4 月 1 日收購了該資產。在過去的幾個季度中，您在捕獲方面取得了實質性的改善。吞吐量上升了。幫助我們了解您帶來的一些變化，這些變化使您能夠從這次經歷中學習並提高這項資產的績效。

And a follow-up on this one is help us also understand once the RD project actually goes into the picture, does it change the throughput or does it change the clean product yields? If you could walk us through some of those parameters.

對此的後續行動也幫助我們了解一旦 RD 項目真正進入畫面，它會改變吞吐量還是會改變清潔產品的產量？如果您可以向我們介紹其中的一些參數。

Good morning. This is James. I'll answer that. So what occurred and allowed us to increase the capture rate in the fourth quarter were really three things. During the third quarter, as you remember, we changed our reformer catalyst, which was at end of life and was affecting yields. And while we did change both the reformer and the distillate hydrotreater, we increased the capacity of catalysts that we were able to put in there, which we were able to capture that improvement in yields between the age catalyst and the improvements we made inside the reactor space. Those are the two main things.

早上好。這是詹姆斯。我會回答的。因此，發生了什麼讓我們在第四季度提高了捕獲率實際上是三件事。在第三季度，正如你所記得的，我們改變了我們的重整催化劑，它已經到了生命週期的盡頭並且影響了產量。雖然我們確實改變了重整器和餾出物加氫處理器，但我們增加了能夠放入其中的催化劑的容量，我們能夠捕捉到老化催化劑和我們在反應器內部所做的改進之間的產率提高空間。這是兩個主要的事情。

The other one that I would also say is we bought the site and this site was one that had many very good projects that we could go execute that were relatively simple that focused on distillate -- maximum distillate strategy, and that's what we've been doing. Everywhere from crude selection to how we're running the unit and making sure that yields or matter, we're paying attention to those. And so that answers that question.

另一個我要說的是我們買下了這個網站，這個網站有很多我們可以執行的非常好的項目，這些項目相對簡單，專注於餾分——最大餾分策略，這就是我們一直在做的正在做。從粗略的選擇到我們如何運行該單元以及確保產量或重要性，我們都在關注這些。這樣就回答了這個問題。

And in the end, you also saw the amount of crude throughput that we had, and we were able to make sure that we didn't lose yields during the crude throughput also. Did that answer the first question? Then I'll go to the next one.

最後，您還看到了我們擁有的原油吞吐量，並且我們能夠確保在原油吞吐量期間我們也沒有損失產量。這回答了第一個問題嗎？那我就去下一個吧。

That did answer the first question.

這確實回答了第一個問題。

All right. So what's going to change? Number one, in the first quarter, so you'll see slightly down on crude performance, and that's primarily because I don't have a hydrocracker up to absorb hydrogen. So therefore, I've got to limit my fuel system that's there. But once the hydrocracker comes up, the capture rate will change. And actually, what you do see is we're back to what the capture rate was from our initial purchase because of the benefits we saw in the fourth quarter. But what will occur is now I no longer have VGO going to a hydrocracker making roughly 8,000 barrels a day -- 8,000 to 9,000 barrels of diesel, I'll be selling VGO out on the open market as a result.

好的。那麼會發生什麼變化呢？第一，在第一季度，所以你會看到原油性能略有下降，這主要是因為我沒有加氫裂化裝置來吸收氫氣。因此，我必須限制那裡的燃油系統。但是一旦加氫裂化器出現，捕集率就會發生變化。實際上，你看到的是，由於我們在第四季度看到的好處，我們又回到了最初購買時的捕獲率。但現在會發生的是，我不再將 VGO 用於加氫裂化裝置，每天生產大約 8,000 桶 - 8,000 至 9,000 桶柴油，因此我將在公開市場上出售 VGO。

All of that affects capture rate. But I will run the same amount of crude once I get the RD unit up. I'm sorry, I should have added that in too, Manav. Our crude rate will be consistent with what it was prior to prior to taking the OFAs down for the conversion.

所有這些都會影響捕獲率。但是一旦我啟動了 RD 裝置，我將運行相同數量的原油。對不起，我也應該把它加進去的，Manav。我們的原油利率將與降低 OFA 以進行轉換之前的水平保持一致。

So perfect. So the VGO, which is selling at a massive premium yield of VGO goes up, is that right?

很完美。那麼以 VGO 的巨大溢價收益率出售的 VGO 上漲，對嗎？

That's correct. It goes from -- let me give you some rough numbers, 10,000 barrels a day to about 20,000 barrels a day.

這是正確的。它從——讓我給你一些粗略的數字，每天 10,000 桶到大約 20,000 桶。

Perfect. And my very quick follow-up here is, we recently saw another Luciana project. We had an excellent valuation from a European major, almost $6 a gallon. Is this something you could be open to if a European or U.S. major approaches you for that kind of valuation, would you be open to that kind of a deal? Or do you want to do this on your own? And I'll turn it over after that.

完美的。我在這裡的快速跟進是，我們最近看到了另一個 Luciana 項目。我們從一家歐洲主要公司獲得了極好的估值，幾乎每加侖 6 美元。如果歐洲或美國的主要公司就這種估值與您接洽，您是否可以接受這種交易，您會對這種交易持開放態度嗎？還是您想自己做？之後我會把它翻過來。

Manav, good morning, and thanks for being on the call. This is Ben. We've taken no -- there's two projects now that have set a value on RD production. And for us, we have planned to go down this path on our own, if necessary, but we've also legally bifurcated our renewable business on site in the event that -- our whole value has exceeded by somewhat of interest, at least for a portion of that business.

Manav，早上好，感謝你接聽電話。這是本。我們拒絕了——現在有兩個項目為研發生產設定了價值。對於我們來說，如果有必要，我們計劃自己走這條路，但我們也合法地在現場分叉我們的可再生能源業務，以防——我們的整體價值已經超過了一些利益，至少對於該業務的一部分。

So we will be prepared to look at those opportunities, but we are very excited to own 100% of this business today based on the performance of the rest of the company and our ability to continue down this path.

因此，我們將準備好尋找這些機會，但基於公司其他部門的業績以及我們繼續沿著這條道路前進的能力，我們很高興今天擁有該業務的 100%。

Perfect. Congrats on the quarter, guys.

完美的。恭喜這個季度，伙計們。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

The next question today comes from Donovan Schafer with Northland Capital Markets.

今天的下一個問題來自 Northland Capital Markets 的 Donovan Schafer。

I will second the first analyst's comment just that -- as results broadly seem quite positive. I think the only -- I mean the only thing is there -- is this sort of incremental negative thing, if you could call it that is the higher CapEx, but you provided some explanation with what we're seeing really tight labor market. Of course, it makes sense that making -- staying -- you're making it a priority to stay on schedule. So of course, supply chain stuff that could mean a higher sort of expediting costs. But my question is like if we can dig down just a tiny bit more on that. Sometimes, you -- as you say, for instance, tight labor market, you can pay out more and that means you get your hands on people, but you are in a very kind of rural area.

我會附和第一位分析師的評論——因為結果總體上看起來相當積極。我認為唯一的 - 我的意思是唯一存在的 - 是這種遞增的負面因素，如果你可以稱之為更高的資本支出，但你對我們看到的真正緊張的勞動力市場提供了一些解釋。當然，讓——保持——你把按時完成作為優先事項是有道理的。所以當然，供應鏈的東西可能意味著更高的加速成本。但我的問題是，我們能否再深入挖掘一點點。有時，你 - 正如你所說，例如，勞動力市場緊張，你可以支付更多，這意味著你可以接觸到人，但你在一個非常偏遠的農村地區。

You've talked about employees at the cost of your refinery being third-generation folks. And so sometimes there's a difference between having to pay out for something versus just not even being able to get it, period or, say, with expediting or something.

你談到了以你的煉油廠成為第三代人為代價的員工。因此，有時必須為某些東西付出代價與甚至無法得到它之間存在差異，期間或者說，加急或其他東西。

So I'm trying to really hone in on kind of is there anything in the nature of those -- what's behind the cost of runs that can give you any -- that would incrementally cause some potential of a further delay? I know you're still on track like as of now, like as of today, of course, you're on track. But say you're waiting on large components and you've had to expedite...

因此，我正在嘗試真正磨練這些本質上是否有任何東西 - 可以為您提供任何運行成本的背後是什麼 - 會逐漸導致進一步延遲的可能性？我知道你仍然像現在一樣在正軌上，就像今天一樣，當然，你在正軌上。但是假設您正在等待大型組件並且您不得不加快......

If I was in the -- so that's first on hardware. So the supply chain, even though we did pay to maintain schedule every one of those components, we were -- our team on site, we're really focused on making sure every little valve -- I say little, these aren't little. These are big high-pressure valves were ground as we took feed out, as I had previously told you. By the time feed out, we'd have most of it on the ground. I think we had a handful of components and every one of those have arrived. So that's on the supply chain.

如果我在 - 那麼首先是硬件。因此，供應鏈，即使我們確實支付了維護這些組件中每一個組件的進度，我們還是——我們在現場的團隊，我們真的專注於確保每一個小閥門——我說的很少，這些並不小.正如我之前告訴過你的那樣，當我們取出飼料時，這些大型高壓閥被磨碎了。到吃完的時候，我們已經把大部分都放在地上了。我想我們有一些組件，每一個都已經到了。這就是供應鏈。

And on the people side, I think we've seen what the market has performed and what everyone else is seeing in the market. We could have made some different choices there and not got the quality of had and not paid, but we have had very, very good quality work and performance by our contractors on site. And that hats off to them. They've brought the A team for us and they've done very well. And with that, we are now in the process of destaffing the project as we're coming down from our peak.

在人員方面，我認為我們已經看到了市場的表現以及其他所有人在市場上看到的情況。我們本可以在那裡做出一些不同的選擇，而沒有得到已付款但未付款的質量，但我們的承包商在現場的工作質量和績效非常非常好。這對他們很不利。他們為我們帶來了 A 隊，他們做得很好。因此，隨著我們從高峰期走下來，我們現在正在對項目進行裁員。

So if I was ramping up, I would be worried, but that's not where we are on the project at this stage. We are ramping down from peak manpower requirements. Okay?

因此，如果我正在加速發展，我會擔心，但這不是我們現階段項目的進展情況。我們正在從高峰期的人力需求中逐漸減少。好的？

Okay. That's great. Okay. So that's very helpful. And then as a follow-up question, just for the $9.6 million loss on the hedge roll or backwardization, I want to make sure I'm understanding that clearly. So my impression is that this is a bit different from the initial hedges you guys had in place sort of in prior quarters where this is really more about the implicit commodity price exposure that it's almost sort of a working capital exposure you're buying the crude one day, but those exact barrels of crude that you're buying you want to kind of lock in that margin when they go in the feeder and they go into the process.

好的。那太棒了。好的。所以這非常有幫助。然後作為後續問題，僅針對對沖展期或逆向化的 960 萬美元損失，我想確保我清楚地理解這一點。所以我的印像是，這與你們在前幾個季度進行的最初對沖有點不同，後者實際上更多地是關於隱性商品價格風險，這幾乎是一種你購買原油的營運資本風險有一天，但是你購買的那些確切的原油桶，當它們進入進料器並進入加工過程時，你想要鎖定那個保證金。

And then there's some amount of lag or delay before they come out of the other side. And so is the $9.6 million, is that an explicit hedging that's tied to that specific exposure and/or alternatively, is it even hedging? Or is it more sort of an implied hedge just that if you're not hedging, you just have that exposure. And so you're highlighting the impact of that exposure as commodity prices move in the interim between ones you get crude in and refine product out?

然後在它們從另一邊出來之前會有一定的滯後或延遲。 960 萬美元也是如此，這是與特定風險敞口相關的明確對沖和/或它甚至是對沖嗎？或者它更像是一種隱含的對沖，如果你不進行對沖，你就會有這種風險。所以你強調了這種風險敞口的影響，因為商品價格在你獲得原油和精煉產品之間的過渡期間移動？

Yes, this is Chris. I mean, you kind of laid it out well in your explanation. But yes, it's a combination of the impact of the inventory that we have on hand and the changing in the commodity markets, which are in a backwardation position today. We're seeing it go back and forth a little bit, but it's still backward dated at the moment.

是的，這是克里斯。我的意思是，您在解釋中很好地闡述了這一點。但是，是的，這是我們手頭庫存和商品市場變化的影響的結合，商品市場今天處於現貨溢價狀態。我們看到它有點來回走動，但目前它仍然是落後的。

Okay. And so in the release, in the adjusted EBITDA reconciliation, they caused a gain loss on hedge roll (backwardation). So you say hedge roll, you use that just more broadly kind of -- there's not actually like hedge contracts in place. It's more of the impact of that exposure. Is that right?

好的。因此，在發布中，在調整後的 EBITDA 對賬中，他們造成了對沖展期（倒退）的收益損失。所以你說對沖滾動，你只是更廣泛地使用它——實際上並沒有像對沖合約那樣的地方。更多的是這種曝光的影響。是對的嗎？

No. To clarify that, there are hedge contracts in place in the remediation agreement on our inventory. So there are...

沒有。需要澄清的是，我們庫存的修復協議中包含對沖合同。所以有...

So it's kind of it's kind of effectively a mix of both in a way? Or there's a sign amount of netting and figuring it out?

所以它在某種程度上是兩者的有效結合？或者有一個標誌量的淨額併計算出來？

It's a combination of both.

它是兩者的結合。

I see. I see. Okay. Great. I'll take the rest offline. Congratulations, guys.

我懂了。我懂了。好的。偉大的。我會把剩下的離線。恭喜，伙計們。

Thank you, Donovan.

謝謝你，多諾萬。

Our next question comes from Amit Dayal with H.C. Wainwright.

我們的下一個問題來自 H.C. 的 Amit Dayal。溫賴特。

I appreciate you taking my questions. To begin with operating expenses of $3.85 to $4, is this sort of the range for the near term? And how does this change with RD coming online soon?

感謝您回答我的問題。從 3.85 美元到 4 美元的運營費用開始，這是近期的範圍嗎？隨著 RD 即將上線，這種情況有何變化？

Yes. So this is James. Thanks. I'll answer that question. Our costs are competitive. If we go in comparison on a per barrel basis, we're continuing to look at that, and we'll always look at what our costs are as a one refiner site and without some of the conversions, we have -- we believe this cost is competitive if we go back to the history of the site.

是的。這就是詹姆斯。謝謝。我會回答那個問題。我們的成本具有競爭力。如果我們以每桶為基礎進行比較，我們將繼續關注這一點，並且我們將始終關注我們作為一個煉油廠的成本是多少，並且沒有一些轉換，我們有 - 我們相信這一點如果我們回顧網站的歷史，成本是有競爭力的。

With RD, what will occur on that per barrel basis, we may split the pie up as the RD once it's up, it takes its share of the cost of the site. But the size of the pie will not change. It will be the same amount with both the RD operating now as a separate business, and we will bifurcate it in that manner. Does that answer your question?

對於 RD，在每桶的基礎上會發生什麼，我們可能會把蛋糕分成 RD，一旦它啟動，它就會分攤網站的成本。但餡餅的大小不會改變。 RD 現在作為一個單獨的業務運營，這將是相同的數量，我們將以這種方式將其分開。這是否回答你的問題？

So I'll add just to make sure it's clear. We already carry the burden of running the hydro cracker in those costs. As we bring RD on, we don't anticipate our operating cost to change very much. It will be kind of bifurcated as we discussed earlier.

所以我會添加只是為了確保它很清楚。在這些成本中，我們已經承擔了運行加氫裂化裝置的負擔。當我們進行研發時，我們預計我們的運營成本不會有太大變化。正如我們之前討論的那樣，它會有點分歧。

Yes, it's clear now. Appreciate that, Ben and James. Just with respect to the RD another question I have is are we deploying the pretreatment unit in this initial ramp? Or is that coming later? And if it's coming later, what's the time line for that and CapEx, et cetera, that you expect to incur related to that?

是的，現在很清楚了。感謝，本和詹姆斯。就 RD 而言，我的另一個問題是我們是否在這個初始坡道中部署了預處理單元？還是稍後會出現？如果它晚些時候出現，那麼你預計與之相關的資本支出和其他方面的時間表是什麼？

Yes. Thank you. This is James again. I'll answer that. We've been looking real hard at pretreatment and how does it fit and what is the best path forward for that. However, in this process of our investigation, we have found a commercial arrangement with a pretreatment facility, this at a cost below our capital hurdle rate. And even though it's not settled yet, we believe it's a path towards settling that commercial arrangement that would tell us we would not have to -- be economically best for us not to invest in a pretreatment facility as of today.

是的。謝謝。這又是詹姆斯。我會回答的。我們一直在努力研究預處理，它如何適合以及最好的前進道路是什麼。然而，在我們的調查過程中，我們發現了一個帶有預處理設施的商業安排，其成本低於我們的資本門檻率。即使它尚未解決，我們相信這是解決商業安排的途徑，這將告訴我們我們不必 - 對我們來說從今天開始不投資預處理設施在經濟上是最好的。

Okay. Is this local to you guys? Or are you getting it from another state or something?

好的。這是你們當地的嗎？還是您是從其他州或其他地方獲得的？

Yes. And there's actually two of these facilities. They're relatively local to our Mobile refinery.

是的。實際上有兩個這樣的設施。它們相對於我們的移動煉油廠來說是本地的。

Okay. Understood. Just one last one for me. Congrats on the sale on the UMO business. Just wondering what is remaining of that business. And what do you expect to do with anything that is remaining for the UMO side of things?

好的。明白了。最後一張給我。祝賀 UMO 業務的出售。只是想知道那項業務還剩下什麼。您希望如何處理 UMO 方面剩下的任何事情？

Yes. So thank you, Amit, for coming into the call and just the coverage work and what you guys are doing over the years. So we're very pleased with the sale of Heartland. We're very excited about our legacy business that remains -- is 3x bigger. It may be a little more than that than what we were doing at Heartland. And very fitting to what we are focused on in the Gulf region.

是的。所以，阿米特，謝謝你參加電話會議，感謝你的報導工作以及你們這些年來所做的工作。所以我們對 Heartland 的出售感到非常高興。我們對保留下來的傳統業務感到非常興奮——規模擴大了 3 倍。它可能比我們在 Heartland 所做的要多一點。非常適合我們在海灣地區關注的重點。

So we will continue to combine our Mobile operations with all the work that we're doing on our UMO collections in refining. And so we see some real synergies and upside as we move that business forward. So it's just refining that's our focus to the Gulf. And really focused -- continue focus on low carbon products and the molecules that come from our legacy business are becoming more and more valuable. So we're going to really dial that business in.

因此，我們將繼續將我們的移動業務與我們在精煉 UMO 系列上所做的所有工作結合起來。因此，當我們推動該業務向前發展時，我們看到了一些真正的協同效應和優勢。所以它只是提煉這是我們對海灣的關注。真正專注——繼續專注於低碳產品，來自我們傳統業務的分子正變得越來越有價值。因此，我們將真正撥入該業務。

And our next question comes from Michael Hoffman with Stifel.

我們的下一個問題來自 Stifel 的 Michael Hoffman。

I echo everybody's comments. It's nice to see this plant hit its strides for you, given some of the pumps initially. You have a working capital arrangement -- sorry, Ben, go ahead.

我附和大家的意見。很高興看到這家工廠為您取得了長足的進步，最初給了一些泵。你有一個營運資金安排——對不起，本，繼續吧。

I just want to thank you. You've been here a long time in the fight with us. So I was looking forward to sharing this moment with you and appreciate all the work you've done.

我只是想謝謝你。你已經在這里和我們戰鬥了很長時間。所以我很期待與您分享這一刻，並感謝您所做的所有工作。

It's been 15 years, Ben. So...

已經 15 年了，本。所以...

Yes, I was -- so go ahead with your question. I apologize to interrupt.

是的，我是——所以繼續你的問題。抱歉打擾了。

No, it's not at all. You have a working capital arrangement with Macquarie that hasn't kicked in yet. What needs to happen next for that to kick in? And then when it does, some of that -- of the $85 million net proceeds, you've got $74 million you're using for working capital. Can I peel that back and that goes to paying down more debt and get some more of that 15% money off your balance sheet?

不，根本不是。您與麥格理的營運資金安排尚未生效。接下來需要發生什麼才能開始？然後當它發生時，其中一些 - 在 8500 萬美元的淨收益中，你有 7400 萬美元用於營運資金。我能否將其剝離並用於償還更多債務並從您的資產負債表中獲得更多 15% 的資金？

Yes. Michael, it's Chris. So yes, we're -- I mean, we're in probably the 50-yard line of working through the next agreement with our lenders for the soybean oil products. Should be a lot simpler than the first one.

是的。邁克爾，是克里斯。所以是的，我們是——我的意思是，我們可能正在與我們的貸方就豆油產品達成下一份協議，工作距離為 50 碼。應該比第一個簡單很多。

As far as cash, once we get into that deal, yes, we will have a little bit more cash that will come back to us. And the uses of that are going to be to continue to finish out the RD project, which is almost done. And then as noted, we'll focus on a healthier balance sheet, and we will look at opportunities where we can to reduce debt.

至於現金，一旦我們達成協議，是的，我們將有更多的現金返還給我們。其用途將是繼續完成幾乎完成的研發項目。然後如前所述，我們將專注於更健康的資產負債表，我們將尋找可以減少債務的機會。

Okay. I mean at 15%, you're really in the cost of equity territory. So it would be nice to see that come down. Q-on-Q sequentially from 3Q to 4Q, there's a $34 million reduction in inventory. Can you talk us through what was going on there? And what should we see as the trend for 1Q versus 4Q?

好的。我的意思是在 15% 時，你真的處於股權成本範圍內。所以很高興看到它下降。從第三季度到第四季度，Q-on-Q 庫存減少了 3400 萬美元。你能告訴我們那裡發生了什麼嗎？我們應該如何看待第一季度與第四季度的趨勢？

Yes. The real story there in the inventory is the value. The cost of the commodities, Brent, diesel, et cetera, came down, what, $10, $15 a barrel. So that obviously reduced the financing requirements quarter-over-quarter.

是的。庫存中的真實故事是價值。布倫特原油、柴油等大宗商品的成本下降了，每桶 10 美元、15 美元。因此，這明顯降低了季度環比的融資需求。

Okay. So it wasn't a drawdown on it as well physically, so actual volume drawdown. So the total volume is consistent just the underlying mark-to-market has changed.

好的。所以這不是物理上的縮減，而是實際的成交量縮減。因此，總交易量是一致的，只是基礎的按市值計價發生了變化。

Yes, it's just the dollars involved. That's right. You'll see that at the commodities go up and down.

是的，這只是涉及的美元。這是正確的。你會看到商品漲跌。

Okay. And then you alluded to the press release you put a bullet point in about hedging, not currently hedging today, but future could. But I presume you would approach hedging differently than you did last year for the second and the third quarter. Could you talk a little bit about if you did it, how you would think about it? And what sort of the approach you would take if you chose to hedge?

好的。然後你提到你在新聞稿中提到了關於對沖的要點，目前不是今天的對沖，但未來可以。但我認為你對沖的方法與去年第二和第三季度不同。你能談談如果你這樣做了，你會怎麼想嗎？如果你選擇對沖，你會採取什麼樣的方法？

Yes. I'll take that question, Michael. Keep in mind, there are certain things like Chris mentioned on intermediation that is just normal housekeeping with inventory, that's really not what was reflected in our second and third quarter hedge decision. We were hedging the crack spread.

是的。我來回答這個問題，邁克爾。請記住，克里斯在中介中提到的某些事情只是正常的庫存管理，這實際上並沒有反映在我們第二和第三季度的對沖決策中。我們在對沖裂解價差。

So when you look at that 2-1-1 crack spread, we were locking that in for the purpose of protecting the limited cash we had and making a safe passage to our RD project and delivering long term on what our goals and objectives were. Obviously, hindsight is always 2020, and we clearly see that for what it is.

因此，當您查看 2-1-1 裂紋擴散時，我們將其鎖定是為了保護我們擁有的有限現金，並為我們的 RD 項目提供安全通道，並實現我們的長期目標。顯然，事後看來總是 2020 年，我們清楚地看到了它的真相。

As we look forward, we have the capacity in the company and the credit capacity to hedge as necessary, and we have a team and a deep bench today that looks at the market and looks at what our exposures are, and we'll make those decisions as we go. We believe, as we indicated that the market is very strong for our business in the foreseeable future, and we're going to maintain the exposure to the market. I think our shareholders have kind of expressed where they're head on that. So we hear them loud and clear, but we will also be diligent to be looking at things that other people may not see and protect our margin as we go.

展望未來，我們擁有公司的能力和信貸能力來進行必要的對沖，我們今天有一個團隊和一個資深的替補席，他們著眼於市場並著眼於我們的風險敞口，我們將做出這些邊走邊做決定。我們相信，正如我們所指出的那樣，在可預見的未來市場對我們的業務非常強勁，我們將保持對市場的敞口。我認為我們的股東已經表達了他們的立場。因此，我們可以清楚地聽到他們的聲音，但我們也會努力關注其他人可能看不到的東西，並在我們前進的過程中保護我們的利潤。

Okay. Fair enough. And then where do you stand on feedstock arrangements? April literally is around the corner. You snap your fingers, it's going to be here. So what's the status of feedstock to support production through the facility?

好的。很公平。那麼你在原料安排上的立場是什麼？四月真的是指日可待。你打個響指，它會在這裡。那麼通過該設施支持生產的原料狀況如何？

Yes. And so Bart Rice is here, we'll have him, but I'll talk about operation and let me talk more about who the suppliers, not the supplier, but where we are. But we are already acquiring feedstock and getting them the third-party terminals in front of us. And Bart and his team has done a fantastic job securing those, and I'll let him speak to that.

是的。所以 Bart Rice 在這裡，我們會有他，但我會談談運營，讓我更多地談談供應商是誰，而不是供應商，而是我們在哪裡。但我們已經在獲取原料並讓它們成為我們面前的第三方終端。 Bart 和他的團隊在確保這些方面做得非常出色，我會讓他談談這一點。

Michael, this is Bart Rice. The feedstock piece of the puzzle is the most important for our success. And we look at it as one of our most confidential important avenues as well. We have already lined up logistics with all the big ag companies and each of those ag companies have already shipped product to us. And we haven't entained in storage in Mobile. We'll be taking this feedstock by boards, by rail and some by truck.

邁克爾，這是巴特賴斯。拼圖中的原料是我們成功的最重要因素。我們也將其視為我們最機密的重要途徑之一。我們已經與所有大型 ag 公司建立了物流，每家 ag 公司都已經向我們運送了產品。而且我們還沒有在 Mobile 中保留存儲空間。我們將通過木板、鐵路和卡車運送這些原料。

We're going to focus a lot on some of the fats oils and greases that need to be preprocessed. They have the better CI score and when they extend more value to the company. But our logistics is the key to our success of the feedstock where east of the Mississippi River, where we've got all the people that have historically been taking their feedstocks right past us to our competitors, and they're happy to find the home with Vertex now in Mobile.

我們將重點關註一些需要預處理的脂肪和油脂。他們有更好的 CI 分數，當他們為公司帶來更多價值時。但我們的物流是我們在密西西比河以東的原料取得成功的關鍵，我們擁有所有過去一直將原料從我們身邊運到競爭對手那裡的人，他們很高興找到家現在在 Mobile 中使用 Vertex。

Michael, let me make a point here just for future reference, as we move this business forward. And again, you've been involved with the company for a long time. So feed origination is a strong point for Vertex. And it's how we founded the company 22 years ago. So we're very excited about ability to move materials, as Mark said, our ability to capture the right feed opportunities, negotiate that at ground level and then the geographic location advantage we have for a lot of feedstock will weigh in heavy. So we're very positive and bullish on the feed side of the business.

邁克爾，讓我在這裡提出一點，以供將來參考，因為我們會推動這項業務向前發展。再一次，你已經在公司工作了很長時間。因此，源源是 Vertex 的強項。這就是我們 22 年前創立公司的方式。因此，我們對移動材料的能力感到非常興奮，正如馬克所說，我們能夠抓住合適的飼料機會，在地面上進行談判，然後我們擁有大量原料的地理位置優勢將發揮重要作用。因此，我們對企業的飼料方面非常積極和看好。

Okay. And what I heard Bart say is there's a focus on getting my words, dirty oils preprocessed. That's why you're arranging these third-party preprocessing, but you will balance that with the cleaner soybean types as needed.

好的。我聽到巴特說的是，重點是讓我的話，臟油預處理。這就是您安排這些第三方預處理的原因，但您將根據需要將其與更清潔的大豆類型進行平衡。

That is correct. We're going to start up clean just for smooth operations and then we'll start integrating.

那是對的。我們將從頭開始，只是為了平穩運行，然後我們將開始集成。

Okay. And then what did base oil selling prices do in the fourth quarter?

好的。那麼第四季度基礎油銷售價格有何變化？

Yes. I don't have that information. I've got...

是的。我沒有那個信息。我有...

But it did go down.

但它確實下降了。

Yes. Okay. Okay. And then just to be clear, the question was asked earlier, Vertex will seek to maximize and maintain an open profile of maximizing shareholder value. So whatever the best way is to maximize shareholder value, you'll do that. Whether it's sell it, keep it and run it.

是的。好的。好的。然後需要明確的是，之前有人問過這個問題，Vertex 將尋求最大化並保持股東價值最大化的公開形象。因此，無論最大化股東價值的最佳方式是什麼，您都會這樣做。無論是賣掉它，保留它並運行它。

We have a whole value, no different than our renewable capacity we're bringing online. We're going to look at the best value we add to our shareholders, as you said.

我們擁有完整的價值，與我們在線提供的可再生能源沒有什麼不同。正如您所說，我們將著眼於為股東增加的最佳價值。

And then lastly, on the legacy -- sorry, go ahead, No, no, go ahead.

最後，關於遺產——抱歉，繼續，不，不，繼續。

And the legacy business is no different than that. And we believe we got a line on how that will play out. But we -- as we've handled inquiries and things we continue to look at what's in our best interest and that's leading the decisions that we've made so far.

傳統業務與此沒有什麼不同。我們相信我們已經知道這將如何發揮作用。但是我們——在我們處理查詢和事情時，我們會繼續關注什麼最符合我們的利益，這將主導我們迄今為止做出的決定。

Okay. Well, you anticipated my last question, which is I would suspect given you've got a great VGO business in Marrero, but there are other pieces of legacy that maybe aren't all that relevant going forward that we could continue to see cleaning up of that portfolio, and we may end up with just the Marrero processing that 60 million gallons of used oil in the VGO and tying that into the 20,000 barrels a day that you're going to sell out of Mobile?

好的。好吧，你預料到我的最後一個問題，這是我懷疑，因為你在馬雷羅有一個偉大的 VGO 業務，但還有其他遺產可能與我們可以繼續清理的未來無關該投資組合的一部分，我們可能最終只需要 Marrero 在 VGO 中處理 6000 萬加侖的廢油，並將其與您要從 Mobile 出售的每天 20,000 桶相結合？

We will continue to look at each piece of the business with hold values that we've already started to assign to each one of them, and the answer is yes. That's going to be our approach.

我們將繼續關注我們已經開始分配給每個業務的持有價值的每一項業務，答案是肯定的。這將是我們的方法。

Our next question today comes from Eric Stine of Craig-Hallum.

我們今天的下一個問題來自 Craig-Hallum 的 Eric Stine。

I'll just sneak with you here at the end. I'm hoping we can go back to capture rate. And I can appreciate first quarter, obviously, with the hydro treater offline or as part of the RD expansion. But I know you don't guide, but any thoughts on what we should think about for the capture rate in 2Q and beyond?

最後我會和你一起偷偷溜走。我希望我們能回到捕獲率。我很欣賞第一季度，顯然，加氫處理器離線或作為 RD 擴展的一部分。但我知道你不指導，但是關於我們應該為第二季度及以後的捕獲率考慮什麼有什麼想法嗎？

I think the best way to think of it is we're not going to be -- even though our crude rate may be slightly higher, it will not be that much different than it is today in the first quarter that we provided guidance on. We will continue to try to creep the capture rate. However, that -- if you had asked me, I would tell you would be in that the range of where we are for the first quarter for the rest of the year.

我認為最好的思考方式是我們不會 - 儘管我們的原油利率可能略高，但與我們提供指導的第一季度今天相比並沒有太大不同。我們將繼續努力提高捕獲率。但是，如果你問我，我會告訴你，我們在今年剩餘時間的第一季度所處的範圍內。

Okay. And then maybe just longer term, I mean, where can that go, obviously, we saw it in this quarter and the capture rate is a huge driver, not necessarily by the end of 2023. But as you look longer term for this business, where do you think that can go? And what are some of the steps that you might take to get there?

好的。然後也許只是長期，我的意思是，很明顯，我們在本季度看到了它，捕獲率是一個巨大的驅動力，不一定到 2023 年底。但是當你從長遠來看這個業務時，你認為它可以去哪裡？您可能會採取哪些步驟來實現目標？

Yes, that's a great question because one of the things that we've really unlocked at Mobile is the ideas that our people have had there to improve the profitability of the site. And so far, every single time that we're there, they're looking at what the next opportunity is and where can we do that cost competitively. I would tell you that we are -- right now, I can't even predict it because I see some projects in front of us that may take us several years to go execute. But they will continue to creep that.

是的，這是一個很好的問題，因為我們在 Mobile 真正解鎖的東西之一是我們的員工在那裡擁有的提高網站盈利能力的想法。到目前為止，每次我們在那裡，他們都在尋找下一個機會是什麼，以及我們在哪裡可以以具有競爭力的成本做到這一點。我會告訴你我們 - 現在，我什至無法預測，因為我看到我們面前的一些項目可能需要幾年時間才能執行。但他們將繼續這樣做。

My goal is to recover back to where we were in the fourth quarter and beyond, and I see that coming from the people. They have been sitting there in a site that was not strategic to now being in a strategic site with a lot of focus in an extremely strong market. And they're coming forward with ideas...

我的目標是恢復到第四節及以後的水平，我看到這來自於人們。他們一直坐在一個不具有戰略意義的網站上，而不是現在在一個非常強大的市場中非常關注的戰略網站上。他們提出了想法......

Got you. Very helpful. I guess I'll take the rest offline. No need to ask 5, 6 questions.

明白了很有幫助。我想我會把剩下的離線。無需問 5、6 個問題。

Our next question comes from Noah Kaye with Oppenheimer.

我們的下一個問題來自 Noah Kaye 和 Oppenheimer。

Echo that, the comment from others really nice quarter, great to see the execution here. With the RD conversion time table on track, I know we got to walk before we run in terms of standing that up. But have been a number of other projects in the industry doing a sustainable aviation fuel conversions. And so maybe can you just talk a little bit about the technical feasibility of doing a SAF project at this refinery? How much you've looked into that? And when you might think about actually doing a project of that nature.

附和一下，其他人的評論非常好，很高興看到這裡的執行情況。隨著 RD 轉換時間表步入正軌，我知道我們必須先走路，然後再跑步。但是業內還有許多其他項目在進行可持續的航空燃料轉換。那麼也許你能談談在這家煉油廠進行 SAF 項目的技術可行性嗎？你調查了多少？當你可能會考慮實際做一個這種性質的項目時。

Yes. We're -- let's just put it straight. We're very interested in the SAF. We're really trying to see what's the best path forward for us, understanding the economics, what is the impact associated with the RA? And as we analyze what's the best path forward for us, what has the lowest capital with the highest return. What can we use that we can either bolt on to the RD project or the stand-alone project. And we're not prepared for that conversation yet we are very early in it. But you can -- as you can guess from the conversation, this is something that's on my agenda and the team's agenda to help determine the best path forward for us.

是的。我們 - 讓我們直截了當。我們對新加坡武裝部隊非常感興趣。我們真的想看看對我們來說最好的前進道路是什麼，了解經濟學，與 RA 相關的影響是什麼？當我們分析什麼是對我們最好的前進道路時，什麼是資本最低迴報最高的道路。我們可以使用什麼來連接到 RD 項目或獨立項目。我們還沒有為那次對話做好準備，但我們還處於很早的階段。但是你可以——正如你從談話中猜到的那樣，這是我和團隊議程上的事情，以幫助確定我們前進的最佳道路。

Very good. We'll stay tuned for more details on that. I want to go back to Michael's question earlier about hedging. I thought it was a thoughtful response around how you're approaching hedging. What do you anticipate maybe articulating kind of a standing profile or cost share for the company on a go-forward basis? Is that something you might actually be able to communicate to investors, either we will hedge or we will hedge X percent of our exposure? When do you think you might be able to kind of communicate that clearly to folks?

非常好。我們將繼續關注更多細節。我想回到邁克爾之前關於對沖的問題。我認為這是對您如何進行套期保值的深思熟慮的回應。您期望在未來的基礎上闡明公司的常設概況或成本份額是什麼？這是你實際上可以與投資者溝通的東西，我們將對沖或我們將對沖我們敞口的 X%？你認為你什麼時候可以清楚地向人們傳達這些信息？

Yes. I can give you a base for today as we move forward and it's pretty straightforward. We're going to do right by protecting our inventory for market exposure. So there's always going to be paper around that. That's just standard operating procedures.

是的。隨著我們的前進，我可以為您提供今天的基礎，這非常簡單。我們將通過保護我們的市場風險庫存來做正確的事。所以總會有關於它的文件。那隻是標準的操作程序。

And then we have a team in place with the ability to hedge, with a much deeper view of markets and cracks and a lot of outside consulting that we'd look to. So we are going to work hard to protect our margins and provide the upside exposure to the market for our shareholders. So if we see that turning, then we have the tools to make decisions at that point in time. But as of today, as long as our team has the view that we have, we're going to keep our exposure on the crack spreads and make sure that we can deliver that back to the shareholders. But we are in a position if things turn to protect that margin.

然後我們有一個團隊能夠進行對沖，對市場和裂縫有更深入的了解以及我們期待的大量外部諮詢。因此，我們將努力保護我們的利潤率，並為我們的股東提供市場的上行風險。因此，如果我們看到那個轉折點，那麼我們就有了在那個時間點做出決定的工具。但從今天開始，只要我們的團隊持有我們的觀點，我們就會保持對裂解價差的敞口，並確保我們能夠將其回報給股東。但如果事情轉向保護這一利潤，我們就處於有利地位。

Okay. Great. I'll take the rest offline.

好的。偉大的。我會把剩下的離線。

Thank you, Noah. Thank you. Appreciate it.

謝謝你，諾亞。謝謝。欣賞它。

Thank you. And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the question-and-answer session. I'd like to turn the conference back over to management for the closing remarks.

謝謝。女士們，先生們，問答環節到此結束。我想將會議轉回管理層作閉幕詞。

Thank you, Rocco, and thank you, everybody, for the time joining the call today. We're very proud of what our team has accomplished. We look forward to our next call. It shouldn't be too long. And we will be available if anyone has any questions. You can reach out through our ir@vertexenergy.com so that we can provide more comments and answers if there's anything else that we had covered today. Appreciate you joining in.

謝謝 Rocco，也感謝大家抽出時間參加今天的電話會議。我們為我們的團隊所取得的成就感到非常自豪。我們期待著我們的下一次通話。它不應該太長。如果有人有任何問題，我們會隨時待命。您可以通過我們的 ir@vertexenergy.com 與我們聯繫，以便我們可以提供更多的評論和答案，如果我們今天已經涵蓋了任何其他內容。感謝您的加入。

Thank you, sir. This concludes today's conference call. We thank you all for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines, and have a wonderful day.

謝謝你，先生。今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝大家出席今天的演講。您現在可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。