VerifyMe Inc (VRME) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Hello and welcome to the VerifyMe third quarter 2024 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder this conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the call over to Nancy Meyers. Please go ahead.

您好，歡迎參加VerifyMe 2024 年第三季財務業績電話會議。 （操作員說明）作為提醒，本次會議正在錄製中。我現在想把電話轉給南希·邁耶斯。請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for our earnings call presentation. On the call today, I'm joined by Adam Stedham, CEO and President, who will give an operations and strategic update. Following our management presentation, we will have a Q&A session. I would like to bring your attention to the note on forward-looking statements on slide 3.

大家早安，感謝您今天參加我們的財報電話會議。執行長兼總裁 Adam Stedham 也參加了今天的電話會議，他將介紹營運和策略方面的最新情況。在我們的管理層介紹之後，我們將舉行問答環節。我想提請您注意投影片 3 上有關前瞻性陳述的說明。

Today's presentation and the answers to questions include forward-looking statements. It should be understood that actual results could differ materially from those projected due to a number of factors, including those described under the forward-looking statements, captions and on the risk factors of the company's annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.

今天的演示和問題的回答包含前瞻性陳述。應理解，由於多種因素，包括前瞻性陳述、標題以及公司 10-K 表格年度報告和季度報告中的風險因素中描述的因素，實際結果可能與預測結果存在重大差異。

I will now turn the call over to Adam Stedham for some opening remarks.

現在我將把電話轉給 Adam Stedham，讓他發表一些開場白。

Thank you, Nancy.

謝謝你，南希。

I'm pleased with our gross margin, gross profit and adjusted EBITDA improvement in 2024 versus 2023.

我對 2024 年毛利率、毛利和調整後 EBITDA 較 2023 年的改善感到滿意。

These gains have been the result of diligent efforts by the leadership team, and I'm pleased with their results.

這些成績的取得是領導班子辛苦的結果，我對成績感到滿意。

In particular, I'm pleased to report in our Precision Logistics segment that we have seen revenue growth during the third quarter in our proactive services that has come very close to offsetting the loss of the premium customer previously disclosed.

我特別高興地向精密物流部門報告，我們的主動服務在第三季度實現了收入成長，幾乎抵消了先前披露的優質客戶的損失。

Our total year-to-date net cash is slightly down at the end of Q3, but we anticipate there will be net cash flow neutral for 2024.

第三季末，我們今年迄今的淨現金總額略有下降，但我們預計 2024 年淨現金流將保持中立。

Looking at 2024 as a whole, we anticipate our 2024 revenue will be slightly below 2023 revenue.

整體來看2024年，我們預計2024年的營收將略低於2023年的營收。

And I'm disappointed by the lack of revenue growth.

我對收入缺乏成長感到失望。

A meaningful contributing factor is the FedEx insourcing of services provided to one of PeriShip's premium customers.

一個有意義的貢獻因素是 FedEx 內包了向 PeriShip 的一位優質客戶提供的服務。

As just mentioned, we're seeing the results of our expanded sales effort, but the loss of that contract will still drag on the full year results.

正如剛才提到的，我們看到了擴大銷售努力的結果，但失去該合約仍將拖累全年業績。

Now a larger drag on overall expected revenue growth this year comes from our Authentication segment, which, despite robust growth expectations at the start of this year, it hasn't grown in 2024.

現在，今年整體預期收入成長的更大拖累來自我們的身分驗證領域，儘管今年年初成長預期強勁，但到 2024 年並沒有成長。

Now this has led us to do a thorough analysis of our competitive positioning in this area.

現在，這促使我們對我們在這一領域的競爭定位進行徹底分析。

Now VerifyMe has been focused on anti-counterfeit efforts for many years.

如今VerifyMe多年來一直專注於防偽工作。

Historically, these efforts were highly dependent upon technology partner strategies, which have presented many exciting opportunities, but which ultimately generated limited shareholder value.

從歷史上看，這些努力高度依賴技術合作夥伴策略，這些策略帶來了許多令人興奮的機會，但最終產生的股東價值有限。

The partnerships that have created some value for shareholders have been in the distribution partnerships supporting our ink capability.

為股東創造了一些價值的合作關係一直是支持我們墨水能力的分銷合作夥伴關係。

In 2023, as a way to reduce our reliance on third-party technology providers in the code business, we acquired Trust Codes.

2023 年，為了減少程式碼業務中對第三方技術供應商的依賴，我們收購了 Trust Codes。

This transaction was completed with minimal cash.

該交易以最少的現金完成。

And during 2023, we integrated Trust Codes' technology into our business.

2023 年，我們將 Trust Codes 的技術整合到我們的業務中。

In addition, throughout 2023 and 2024, we focused on developing potential sales and distribution partners created by the Trust Codes acquisition.

此外，在 2023 年和 2024 年期間，我們專注於開發因收購 Trust Codes 而創建的潛在銷售和分銷合作夥伴。

Now coming into 2024, we anticipated significant growth of our authentication segment due to leveraging our sales and distribution partnerships and completing our services provider agreement with Amazon Transparency.

進入 2024 年，由於利用我們的銷售和分銷合作夥伴關係以及完成與 Amazon Transparency 的服務提供者協議，我們預計我們的身分驗證細分市場將顯著成長。

Disappointingly, organic growth has not materialized for this segment in 2024.

令人失望的是，該細分市場到 2024 年尚未實現有機成長。

We've come to realize that traceability through serialized codes and supporting cloud technology is a very complex sale for customers in the US market.

我們逐漸意識到，透過序列化程式碼和支援雲端技術進行可追溯性對於美國市場的客戶來說是一項非常複雜的銷售。

We've also discovered that our authentication segment lacks the size and scope to compete effectively in the enterprise customer market.

我們也發現，我們的身分驗證細分市場缺乏在企業客戶市場中有效競爭的規模和範圍。

And then lastly, due to various marketplace dynamics and our company's size and positioning, we do not believe the Amazon Transparency arrangement presents the tailwinds for the Authentication segment that we had previously believed it would.

最後，由於各種市場動態以及我們公司的規模和定位，我們認為亞馬遜透明度安排不會像我們之前認為的那樣為身份驗證領域帶來順風。

So as we evaluate the current situation, I think we also need to consider that pursuing this vertically integrated code strategy requires approximately $1 million per year of cash investment by the company in 2024, again in 2025 and continued cash investments into 2026.

因此，當我們評估當前情況時，我認為我們還需要考慮到，追求這種垂直整合的代碼策略需要公司在2024 年、2025 年每年進行約100 萬美元的現金投資，並在2026 年繼續進行現金投資。

So -- and I want to help put that required investment into perspective. $1 million is approximately 8% of the entire market cap of the company and our code services represent about 1% of our annual revenues.

因此，我想幫助大家正確看待所需的投資。 100 萬美元約占公司總市值的 8%，我們的代碼服務約占我們年收入的 1%。

So as a result, we've been working with multiple advisers to critically assess what are our various options.

因此，我們一直在與多名顧問合作，嚴格評估我們的各種選擇。

And we've concluded that a renewed focus on our ink product, which currently represents about 23% of our authentication revenue or the pursuit of other strategic opportunities related to areas of company or board expertise will provide a better return for our shareholders than continuing to invest in the vertically integrated code strategy.

我們得出的結論是，重新關注我們的墨水產品（目前約占我們認證收入的23％）或追求與公司或董事會專業知識領域相關的其他策略機會將為我們的股東提供比繼續關注更好的回報。

So as a result of this, we'll likely exit that portion of the authentication segment, which would also end our current relationship with Amazon Transparency prior to the end of 2024 by discontinuing the operation or divesting of the business.

因此，我們可能會退出身分驗證部分的這一部分，這也將透過停止營運或剝離業務，在 2024 年底之前結束我們與 Amazon Transparency 的當前關係。

Now when I introduced myself to you just over a year ago, I said we believed that our PeriShip business presents a strong cash flow business, and we believe we could create value through organic and strategic initiatives.

一年多前，當我向大家介紹自己時，我說我們相信我們的 PeriShip 業務提供了強大的現金流業務，我們相信我們可以透過有機的策略性舉措創造價值。

We continue to believe this is the case.

我們仍然相信情況確​​實如此。

While the decision to change course on the authentication business is likely to be a surprise to you, I want you to know that we have not made this decision lightly.

雖然改變認證業務方針的決定可能會讓您感到驚訝，但我想讓您知道，我們並不是輕易做出這個決定的。

At the very core of our strategy and efforts is to drive to create shareholder value.

我們策略和努力的核心是推動創造股東價值。

We now strongly believe that we'll be able to best create this value by investing in areas outside of the codes portion of our authentication segment.

現在，我們堅信，透過投資身分驗證領域程式碼部分之外的領域，我們將能夠最好地創造這一價值。

We've engaged with bankers and advisers in seeking alternatives and at this point, we're very optimistic about the opportunities that we see.

我們已經與銀行家和顧問合作尋找替代方案，目前我們對所看到的機會非常樂觀。

So I'd like to shift the conversation a bit to discuss Precision Logistics.

所以我想稍微轉移話題來討論精準物流。

We've increased the number of proactive services year-to-date customers in this segment by 6% over 2023.

與 2023 年相比，我們今年迄今已將該細分市場的主動服務客戶數量增加了 6%。

We also have continued to see increases in proposal activity in Precision Logistics since increasing the size of our sales team.

自從擴大我們的銷售團隊規模以來，我們也看到精密物流的提案活動持續增加。

Now despite our total shipments for existing customers and proactive services being down 4% year-to-date, we're pleased by the shifting trajectory of these volumes.

現在，儘管我們現有客戶和主動服務的總出貨量今年迄今下降了 4%，但我們對這些數量的變化軌跡感到高興。

We expect that Q4 of this year will continue to face headwinds, but we believe our execution and differentiation positions us to navigate the situation well.

我們預計今年第四季將繼續面臨逆風，但我們相信我們的執行力和差異化使我們能夠很好地應對這種情況。

In addition, we believe we're well positioned to benefit from the wins once the overall perishable shipments market shift.

此外，我們相信，一旦整個易腐貨物運輸市場轉變，我們就能夠從勝利中受益。

So at this point, I'll turn the call over to Nancy for a detailed review of the third quarter financials.

因此，此時，我將把電話轉給南希，詳細審查第三季的財務狀況。

Thank you, Adam.

謝謝你，亞當。

The third quarter revenue was $5.4 million versus the prior year of $5.6 million, a decrease of $0.2 million.

第三季營收為 540 萬美元，較上年同期的 560 萬美元減少 20 萬美元。

Revenue in the Authentication segment was down slightly year-over-year.

身份驗證領域的收入較去年同期略有下降。

In the Precision Logistics segment, premium revenue was down $0.5 million due to the previously disclosed discontinued contracts with one customer, partially offset by a $0.4 million increase in our proactive services revenue.

在精密物流部門，由於先前披露的與一位客戶終止的合同，保費收入下降了 50 萬美元，但被我們主動服務收入增加的 40 萬美元部分抵消。

Gross profit decreased $0.2 million to $1.9 million in Q3 2024 versus $2 million in Q3 2023.

2024 年第三季的毛利減少了 20 萬美元，至 190 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的毛利為 200 萬美元。

As a percentage of revenue, gross margin was 35% in Q3 2024 versus 37% in Q3 2023.

以佔收入的百分比計算，2024 年第三季的毛利率為 35%，而 2023 年第三季為 37%。

While the quarter did result in a decrease in year-over-year gross profit with the loss of one customer in premium services, which has higher margins, which we discussed in our last earnings call, the impact was partially mitigated by other process improvements the company has made.

儘管該季度確實導致毛利同比下降，因為高級服務領域的一名客戶流失了，而該服務的利潤率較高，我們在上次財報電話會議中對此進行了討論，但其他流程改進部分緩解了影響公司已做出。

We still anticipate our full year 2024 gross margin to exceed full year 2023 even though we expect Q4 gross margin percentage to be below Q3 due to the seasonality associated with our proactive revenue.

我們仍然預計 2024 年全年毛利率將超過 2023 年全年，儘管由於我們主動收入的季節性，我們預計第四季度的毛利率百分比將低於第三季。

During the quarter, as a result of the analysis of our competitive positioning in the authentication segment and likelihood that we will exit the code portion of our authentication segment as discussed earlier by Adam, an event requiring a goodwill and long-lived intangible asset impairment analysis to be completed was triggered.

在本季度，由於對我們在認證領域的競爭地位進行了分析，以及我們將退出認證領域的程式碼部分的可能性（正如Adam 之前討論的那樣），這一事件需要進行商譽和長期無形資產減值分析待完成被觸發。

As a result of the analysis, we recorded a $2.3 million goodwill and intangible asset impairment within total operating expenses.

分析結果顯示，我們在總營運支出中記錄了 230 萬美元的商譽和無形資產減損。

Operating expenses were $4.8 million in Q3 2024 versus $2.9 million in Q3 2023, but included this one-time non-cash goodwill and intangible asset impairment in the authentication segment.

2024 年第三季的營運費用為 480 萬美元，而 2023 年第三季的營運費用為 290 萬美元，但其中包括認證領域的一次性非現金商譽和無形資產減損。

Excluding these items, total operating expenses improved by $0.4 million.

排除這些項目，總營運費用減少了 40 萬美元。

Segment management and technology expenses and sales and marketing expenses were flat year-over-year.

部門管理和技術費用以及銷售和行銷費用較去年同期持平。

General and administrative expenses improved by approximately $0.4 million, primarily due to the severance recorded in 2023 that did not recur in 2024.

一般及行政費用減少約 40 萬美元，主要是由於 2023 年記錄的遣散費在 2024 年沒有再發生。

Our net loss for the quarter was $2.4 million or a loss of $0.23 per diluted share.

本季我們的淨虧損為 240 萬美元，或攤薄後每股虧損 0.23 美元。

Excluding the noncash item of the goodwill and intangible impairment as well as gain on fair value of contingent consideration related to the Trust Codes global business, our net loss for the quarter was $0.6 million, versus $0.9 million in Q3 2023 or a loss of $0.09 per diluted share.

不包括商譽和無形減損的非現金項目以及與Trust Codes 全球業務相關的或有對價的公允價值收益，我們本季的淨虧損為60 萬美元，而2023 年第三季為90 萬美元，每股虧損0.09 美元。

Our adjusted EBITDA remained flat year-over-year at $0.2 million and improved $1.1 million to $0.4 million year-to-date 2024, versus a loss of $0.7 million in 2023.

我們的調整後 EBITDA 與去年同期相比持平，為 20 萬美元，2024 年年初至今增加了 110 萬美元，達到 40 萬美元，而 2023 年為虧損 70 萬美元。

On the last slide is our balance sheet as of September 30, 2024.

最後一張投影片是我們截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的資產負債表。

Our cash as of September 30 is $2.6 million, a decrease of $0.5 million from $3.1 million on December 31, 2023.

截至 9 月 30 日，我們的現金為 260 萬美元，比 2023 年 12 月 31 日的 310 萬美元減少了 50 萬美元。

During the first nine months of 2024, our use of cash included $0.5 million in repayment of debt and interest.

2024 年前 9 個月，我們使用的現金包括 50 萬美元用於償還債務和利息。

Due to the seasonality of our Precision Logistics segment, our AR unbilled revenue and accounts payable are higher at year-end compared to the other three quarters.

由於我們精密物流部門的季節性，我們的 AR 未開票收入和應付帳款在年底高於其他三個季度。

As of September 30, 2024, we have $1 million remaining on our loan and $1.1 million on our convertible notes.

截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日，我們的貸款餘額為 100 萬美元，可轉換票據餘額為 110 萬美元。

There are no borrowings under our line of credit, and we have $1 million available to us.

我們的信用額度下沒有借款，我們有 100 萬美元可用。

With that, I would like to turn the call back to Adam.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉回給亞當。

Thank you, Nancy.

謝謝你，南希。

As for the decision related to our authentication segment, I can't overemphasize the amount of evaluation and analysis that's gone into this decision.

至於與我們的身份驗證部分相關的決定，我不能過分強調該決定中所進行的評估和分析的數量。

I'm committed to pursuing organic and strategic initiatives that will create value for VerifyMe shareholders.

我致力於追求有機的策略舉措，為VerifyMe 股東創造價值。

I continue to believe we can create meaningful value for our shareholders and our best opportunity to create this value is to redirect our investment into areas other than the codes portion of the Authentication segment.

我仍然相信我們可以為股東創造有意義的價值，而創造這價值的最佳機會是將我們的投資重​​新導向到身分驗證領域的程式碼部分以外的領域。

Over the last 15 months, we've been focused on creating this value for shareholders by strengthening the operations of our Precision Logistics business and investing in the codes portion of our authentication.

在過去 15 個月裡，我們一直致力於透過加強 Precision Logistics 業務的運作以及投資於我們的身分驗證程式碼部分來為股東創造這種價值。

However, more recently, we've begun to increase our investment in sales and marketing within Precision Logistics business, and I feel this focus is starting to yield results.

然而，最近，我們開始增加對精準物流業務的銷售和行銷的投資，我認為這種關注已經開始產生效果。

I'm optimistic about the conversations that we're having with advisers and bankers.

我對我們與顧問和銀行家的對話感到樂觀。

And so at this point, I'll turn the call over to questions from our analyst

因此，此時，我將把電話轉交給我們分析師的問題

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Michael Petusky, Barrington Research.

邁克爾·佩塔斯基，巴靈頓研究中心。

Hi, good morning.

嗨，早安。

So Adam, so I'm curious

所以亞當，所以我很好奇

--

--

Good Morning Michael.

早上好，麥可。

Good morning.

早安.

So I'm curious on the remaining authentication business.

所以我對剩下的認證業務很好奇。

Is that adjusted EBITDA positive?

調整後的 EBITDA 是否為正值？

Or is it adjusted EBITDA negative sort of what will remain of that business?

或者調整後的 EBITDA 是否為負數，該業務的剩餘部分會如何？

At this point, it would be adjusted EBITDA negative at the beginning of the year depending upon our current backlog of revenue that we're pulling into the year.

此時，根據我們目前積壓的收入，年初的 EBITDA 將調整為負值。

But as we evaluate that, we're obviously looking to drive to a point of being adjusted EBITDA positive in 2025.

但正如我們評估的那樣，我們顯然希望在 2025 年實現調整後的 EBITDA 為正值。

Okay.

好的。

Yeah, essentially, the road I want to go down is does it make sense for that segment itself to exist given that it's such a tiny part of revenue.

是的，本質上，我想要走的路是，考慮到該細分市場只佔收入的一小部分，它本身的存在是否有意義。

I understand it's gross margin accretive, but it's not EBITDA -- adjusted EBITDA accretive.

我知道它的毛利率會增加，但它不是 EBITDA——調整後的 EBITDA 增加。

I just wonder -- yeah.

我只是想知道——是的。

Yeah.

是的。

You bring up a very good question.

你提出了一個非常好的問題。

And in terms of -- which is really more of a reporting in how we discuss the company and people view it.

就我們如何討論公司和人們如何看待它而言，這實際上更像是一份報告。

Given the low percentage of our total revenues, it may not make sense to discuss it in a discrete manner.

鑑於我們總收入的比例較低，以離散的方式討論它可能沒有意義。

But given the history of the company in authentication services and patents that we have in that area, at this time, we still want to keep people informed by discretely talking about it.

但考慮到該公司在該領域的認證服務和專利方面的歷史，目前我們仍然希望透過謹慎地談論它來讓人們了解情況。

Yeah, I wasn't questioning.

是的，我沒有質疑。

Talking about, I guess, I was -- the question I had was, does it make sense as part of VerifyMe going forward, given how little it contributes and the fact that it's a drag on adjusted EBITDA, but it sounds like you're hopeful it won't be going forward.

談到，我想，我的問題是，考慮到它的貢獻微乎其微，而且它拖累了調整後的 EBITDA，它作為未來 VerifyMe 的一部分是否有意義，但聽起來你是希望它不會繼續下去。

Right.

正確的。

And we're looking at -- we're definitely considering that.

我們正在考慮——我們肯定正在考慮這一點。

And if there was a -- whatever the path is that what we think would create the most value for our shareholders relative to that portion of the business, that's the path that we're committed to follow.

如果有一條——無論我們認為哪種路徑能夠為我們的股東創造相對於該業務部分的最大價值，那就是我們致力於遵循的路徑。

Got you.

明白你了。

Makes sense.

有道理。

So I also wanted to just ask really quick.

所以我也想盡快問一下。

I guess the FedEx premium decision, we're now maybe a couple of quarters removed from that decision.

我猜想聯邦快遞的保費決定，我們現在可能距離該決定還有幾個季度的時間。

And obviously, there's still some premium business that you guys have.

顯然，你們仍然擁有一些優質業務。

And I'm just curious because at the time of the FedEx announcement, I think you were hopeful that in the near term, the remaining premium business would sort of stick around, but maybe not as high -- you maybe didn't have quite as high a conviction on the longer term.

我只是很好奇，因為在聯邦快遞宣布這一消息時，我認為您希望在短期內剩餘的優質業務能夠繼續存在，但可能不會那麼高 - 您可能沒有相當多的收入對長期的信念同樣堅定。

I'm just wondering, is there any update in terms of your sort of outlook on that piece of your business going forward?

我只是想知道，您對這部分業務的未來展望有什麼更新嗎？

And I'm particularly asking around, hey, should I be thinking about this part of the business for '25 and '26 and going forward?

我特別問周圍的人，嘿，我是否應該考慮 25 年和 26 年以及未來的這部分業務？

Right.

正確的。

Great, great question.

很好，很好的問題。

As a reminder, from -- if we go back to our Strategy Day, we have two types of premium customers.

提醒一下，如果我們回到我們的策略日，我們有兩種類型的優質客戶。

And what a premium customer means is simply we get paid for our service independent of any shipping costs, whereas proactive, we get paid for shipping and our service.

優質客戶的意思很簡單，就是我們透過我們的服務獲得報酬，而與任何運輸成本無關，而主動，我們透過運輸和我們的服務獲得報酬。

So there are direct premium customers.

所以有直接的優質客戶。

What that means is the customer pays us directly to provide our service and they pay FedEx or whomever else directly for the shipping.

這意味著客戶直接向我們付款以提供我們的服務，並直接向聯邦快遞或其他任何人支付運費。

That's direct premium.

那是直接溢價。

And then indirect premium is we are subcontracted by FedEx to provide a service that they resell.

然後間接溢價是我們由聯邦快遞分包以提供他們轉售的服務。

So we are actually seeing growth of our direct premium customers, and we had increased activity in our pipeline.

因此，我們實際上看到了直接優質客戶的成長，並且我們的通路活動有所增加。

And so we think that aspect of our premium business is going to grow and it will grow at the same margin profile -- gross margin profile as our indirect premium.

因此，我們認為我們的保費業務將會成長，並將以與我們的間接保費相同的利潤率（毛利率）成長。

So that's positive for us.

所以這對我們來說是積極的。

To this point, the work subcontracted to FedEx has remained stable, and we haven't seen a significant shift of customers.

到目前為止，分包給聯邦快遞的工作一直保持穩定，我們還沒有看到客戶發生重大轉變。

With that said, FedEx has made significant investments in an AI product and that AI product, as it evolves, has the ability to do some of what we are subcontracted to do.

話雖如此，聯邦快遞已經在人工智慧產品上進行了大量投資，隨著人工智慧產品的發展，它有能力完成我們分包完成的一些工作。

So we don't anticipate at this point there is any near future impact from this.

因此，我們目前預計這不會在不久的將來產生任何影響。

And our current strategy is to grow the direct premium at a rate that would offset any decline in the indirect premium.

我們目前的策略是增加直接保費，其速度可以抵消間接保費的下降。

So that's where we sit now.

這就是我們現在坐的地方。

Does that answer the question?

這能回答問題嗎？

Does that make sense?

這樣有道理嗎？

It does.

確實如此。

It does bring one question.

它確實帶來了一個問題。

How much direct premium revenue do you guys currently sort of have exposure to?

你們目前有多少直接保費收入？

About 10% of the premium revenue is direct premium currently.

目前約10%的保費收入是直接保費。

And that's, what, like a couple of million dollars a total that we're talking about?

那就是，我們所說的總共幾百萬美元？

No, no.

不，不。

Because

因為

--

--

No.

不。

I don't mean the 10% of, but isn't premium somewhere around 10% -- a couple of million dollars or like?

我指的不是 10%，但溢價不是在 10% 左右嗎——幾百萬美元之類的？

No.

不。

It's 4% -- it's north of 4% to 5%.

這是 4%——高於 4% 到 5%。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Even after the FedEx decision from six months ago?

即使聯邦快遞六個月前做出決定之後也是如此？

Yeah.

是的。

Okay.

好的。

Got it.

知道了。

Okay.

好的。

Terrific.

了不起。

That's all I've got.

這就是我所擁有的一切。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jack Vander Aarde, Maxim Group.

傑克·范德·阿爾德，Maxim 集團。

Okay great.

好的，太好了。

Hi Adam.

嗨亞當。

Thanks for taking.

感謝您採納。

(multiple speaker) I'm good.

（多個發言者）我很好。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Adam, I'm going to just kind of touch on this as well a little bit.

亞當，我也將稍微談談這個問題。

I apologize if I've been redundant or things that just aren't ready yet.

如果我是多餘的或事情還沒準備好，我深表歉意。

But in terms of the authentication segment going forward, which I understand you're still working through the strategy, obviously.

但就未來的身份驗證部分而言，據我所知，顯然您仍在製定該策略。

But just a couple of things.

但只有幾件事。

So what pieces of that business are still in play for certain?

那麼，該業務的哪些部分仍在發揮作用？

Is it just the inks component of the business?

這只是該業務的油墨部分嗎？

Or am I missing something else as well?

或者我還缺其他東西嗎？

Well, it's -- so right now, the ink component is in play and the relative patents and the technology and the equipment that supports the ink strategy.

嗯，現在，墨水成分正在發揮作用，相關專利以及支援墨水策略的技術和設備也在發揮作用。

But keep in mind that historically, the company, as I said, has leveraged various partnerships that would allow the ink component to join up with other technologies or other strategies.

但請記住，正如我所說，從歷史上看，該公司利用了各種合作夥伴關係，使墨水組件能夠與其他技術或其他策略結合。

So we do have that, that we're analyzing from a partner perspective.

所以我們確實有，我們正在從合作夥伴的角度進行分析。

We're very cognizant, as I said earlier, that the way those partnerships were created in the past on the code side didn't create a lot of value.

正如我之前所說，我們非常清楚，過去在程式碼方面創建這些合作夥伴關係的方式並沒有創造太多價值。

But there were some partnerships that created value so -- in terms of distributor partnerships and so on and so forth.

但有一些合作關係創造了價值——就分銷商合作夥伴關係等而言。

So that's really where we're at.

這就是我們現在的處境。

With that said, we do have expertise in anti-counterfeit, in authentication and some of the various opportunities that we're looking at could be within the overall realm of authentication services.

話雖如此，我們確實擁有防偽、認證方面的專業知識，而我們正在尋找的一些機會可能屬於認證服務的整體領域。

Okay.

好的。

That's very helpful.

這非常有幫助。

And then just in general, regardless of the specifics, I guess.

我想，無論具體情況如何，只是一般而言。

Is it -- maybe just for sandy check, do you indeed expect revenue from the Authentication segment in 2025?

也許只是為了進行桑迪檢查，您確實預計 2025 年來自身份驗證領域的收入嗎？

Any sort of ramping up of any of the ink's revenue or anything else that's involved just to get a baseline there?

任何形式的墨水收入或其他涉及的任何增加只是為了獲得基線？

Right.

正確的。

We do expect revenue in 2025.

我們確實預期 2025 年會出現收入。

But if you look at it, I don't think it's going to be material for the company as a whole.

但如果你仔細看一下，我認為這對整個公司來說並不重要。

If you look at our overall revenue, I don't think it will be -- this year, it's questionably material with the codes and the ink.

如果你看看我們的整體收入，我認為今年不會，代碼和墨水的實質內容值得懷疑。

So I don't anticipate it will be a material amount of revenue in 2025.

因此，我預計 2025 年的收入不會很大。

But there will revenue in 2025.

但到2025年就會有收入。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful color.

這是有用的顏色。

And then just switching gears to Precision Logistics.

然後切換到精準物流。

I did see you guys called out the proactive services piece was up 9% year-over-year.

我確實看到你們提到主動服務部分年增了 9%。

And just for a sandy check there, too, so I have it correct, what actually is the mix of the proactive services revenue?

也只是為了進行沙子檢查，所以我的說法是正確的，主動服務收入的實際組合是什麼？

Or what's the dollar amount?

或者說美元金額是多少？

If you could just give us a sense there?

你能給我們一個感覺嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

I mean I would from a dollar -- or from a mix perspective, you're looking at about 20% of the revenue is premium, 80% of the revenue is proactive.

我的意思是，我會從一美元或從混合的角度來看，大約 20% 的收入是溢價收入，80% 的收入是主動收入。

Got you.

明白你了。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

Keep in mind, as Nancy said, there's a strong seasonality component to proactive in Q4, so that mix changes in Q4 because the proactive goes up substantially and the premium doesn't move in the same way in Q4.

請記住，正如Nancy 所說，第四季度的主動行動具有很強的季節性因素，因此第四季度的組合會發生變化，因為主動行動大幅上升，而溢價在第四季度的變化方式並不相同。

In addition to that, just like everyone else, we're somewhat assuming what the seasonality will be this year, what Christmas shopping patterns, holiday shopping patterns, all of those things will be this year, we're making some assumptions on that.

除此之外，就像其他人一樣，我們在某種程度上假設今年的季節性是什麼，聖誕節購物模式，假期購物模式，所有這些今年都會是什麼，我們對此做出了一些假設。

But no one really knows until after the season is over.

但直到賽季結束後，沒有人真正知道這一點。

Sure.

當然。

Okay.

好的。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And then just your comments around gross margin.

然後是您對毛利率的評論。

Obviously, there's some puts and takes here.

顯然，這裡有一些放和取。

It sounds like you're expecting the fourth quarter just given, I guess, the higher volume, maybe also less of the Trust Codes business as well.

聽起來您預計第四季度的銷售量將會增加，但信託代碼業務的銷售量可能也會減少。

But just in general, gross margin sounds like they will be -- they'll tick down a bit.

但總的來說，毛利率聽起來會有所下降。

But nonetheless, you still expect positive adjusted EBITDA for the year.

但儘管如此，您仍預期今年調整後的 EBITDA 為正值。

I guess looking forward -- and then I just want to get your comments if you could just tie together the fourth quarter there.

我想期待一下——然後我只想得到你的評論，如果你能把第四季度聯繫起來的話。

And then just kind of give us a sense of how do we expect gross margin to kind of play out from where you see things today next year?

然後讓我們了解明年的毛利率將如何發揮？

Are we going to expect kind of gradual uplift just due to volume and overhead being absorbed?

我們是否會期望僅僅因為交易量和管理費用被吸收而逐漸上升？

Or is this kind of gives a steady state, if you could?

或者如果可以的話，這是否可以提供穩定的狀態？

Thanks.

謝謝。

Yeah.

是的。

I don't think that we'll see a year over year gross margin uplift next year versus 2024 for quite two reasons.

我認為明年的毛利率與 2024 年相比不會出現年比上升，原因有二。

One is, keep in mind, our premium business is a much higher gross margin profile than our proactive.

一是，請記住，我們的高端業務的毛利率遠高於我們的主動業務。

And so with the in-sourcing of the one customer that happened halfway through this year, that creates a comparison where we had a much higher gross margin effect in the first half of the year due to that premium customer.

因此，隨著今年上半年發生的一個客戶的內包，這形成了一個比較，由於該優質客戶，我們在今年上半年的毛利率效應要高得多。

On top of that, we expect to see our growth happening in the proactive business.

最重要的是，我們期望看到我們的成長發生在積極主動的業務中。

So as the proactive business grows, the percentage of our total revenue of the -- that is of the lower gross margin type versus the higher will increase, which would have a downward effect on gross margin.

因此，隨著主動業務的成長，毛利率較低的類型與毛利率較高的類型在我們總收入中所佔的百分比將會增加，這將對毛利率產生下行影響。

With that said, we expect that through our investments in technology and automation, we are going to see some cost rationalization, which would offset that.

話雖如此，我們預計透過對技術和自動化的投資，我們將看到一些成本合理化，這將抵消這一點。

So overall, I think we're looking at having a flattening of the gross margin profile going into next year with the exception of the comparison impact of the previously announced premium customer from the first half of the year.

因此，總的來說，我認為除了先前宣布的上半年優質客戶的比較影響外，我們正在考慮明年的毛利率狀況趨於平緩。

Okay, understood.

好的，明白了。

I think that's it for me.

我想這對我來說就是這樣。

I appreciate it.

我很感激。

I'll hope back in queue.

我希望能回到隊列。

Great.

偉大的。

Michael Petusky, Barrington Research.

邁克爾·佩塔斯基，巴靈頓研究中心。

I missed this last question.

我錯過了最後一個問題。

I don't have (inaudible) no problem.

我沒有（聽不清楚）沒有問題。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So Adam, you alluded to -- but if you guys gave specifics, I apologize, I missed it.

亞當，你提到過——但如果你們給了具體細節，我很抱歉，我錯過了。

I know that you guys had hired a couple of salespeople for Precision Logistics in Q2.

我知道你們在第二季為 Precision Logistics 聘請了幾位銷售人員。

Have you added to that in Q3?

您在第三季度添加了這一點嗎？

Yes.

是的。

We added another first -- we added another sales and marketing person in Q3.

我們又增加了一個第一——我們在第三季增加了另一位銷售和行銷人員。

Okay.

好的。

And do you have any plans as you sort of look out over the next 6 to 12 months to bolster that?

在未來 6 到 12 個月內，您有什麼計劃來支持這一目標嗎？

Or is that going to cover you for the near

或者這會為你提供近期的保障嗎？

--

--

We don't have definitive plans.

我們沒有明確的計劃。

We're evaluating that.

我們正在對此進行評估。

It -- I mean, one of the things we're -- as we're redirecting investment dollars that have not resulted in revenue growth this year and have not resulted in the results we wanted, that part of that money could be deployed into sales strategies for the PeriShip business.

我的意思是，我們正在做的事情之一是，因為我們正在重新調整投資資金，但這些資金今年沒有帶來收入成長，也沒有帶來我們想要的結果，這部分資金可以部署到PeriShip 業務的銷售策略。

I mean it's a significant expense that is going away, which one of the very logical things to do with that would be looking at deploying a portion of that towards organic growth in Precision Logistics.

我的意思是，這是一項正在消失的巨額支出，與之相關的非常合乎邏輯的事情之一就是考慮將其中的一部分用於精密物流的有機增長。

But we don't have a final plan as of yet.

但我們目前還沒有最終計劃。

Okay.

好的。

And then just last question.

然後是最後一個問題。

Do you guys have any plans or have you discussed the idea of sort of doing some kind of reset Investor Day where essentially say, hey, a few things have changed in the past year, we want to sort of talk about our go-forward outlook?

你們有什麼計劃嗎？

We absolutely -- my expectation is that our Q4 Shareholder Day will -- our Q4 earnings call will likely be extended so that we have adequate time to not only share the year-end earnings, but we also are able to provide far more insight to the strategy for 2025.

我們絕對——我的預期是，我們第四季度的股東日——我們的第四季度收益電話會議可能會延長，這樣我們不僅有足夠的時間來分享年終收益，而且我們還能夠提供更多的見解2025 年策略。

Awesome.

驚人的。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes our question-and-answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

I would now like to turn the call back over to management for any closing remarks.

我現在想將電話轉回給管理階層，讓他們發表結束語。

Well, thank you very much.

嗯，非常感謝。

And as we said, some of the decisions that have been made are probably surprising to people.

正如我們所說，已經做出的一些決定可能會讓人們感到驚訝。

But with that said, hopefully, you understand and you realize how much thought went into it.

但話雖如此，希望你能理解並意識到其中付出了多少思考。

And that at the end of the day, we're making decisions that are just very, very laser-focused on growing the company, building shareholder value and providing returns to our shareholders.

歸根究底，我們所做的決策非常非常專注於發展公司、創造股東價值並為股東提供回報。

So thank you, everybody, for attending today.

謝謝大家今天出席。

The conference has now concluded.

會議現已結束。

Thank you for your participation.

感謝您的參與。

You may now disconnect your lines.

現在您可以斷開線路。