VerifyMe Inc (VRME) 2024 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the VerifyMe second-quarter 2024 financial results conference call.

美好的一天，歡迎參加VerifyMe 2024 年第二季財務業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Please note today's event is being recorded.

請注意今天的活動正在錄製中。

I'd now like to turn the conference over to Nancy Meyers, Chief Financial Officer.

我現在想將會議交給財務長南希·邁耶斯 (Nancy Meyers)。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for our earnings call presentation.

大家早安，感謝您今天參加我們的財報電話會議。

On the call today, I am joined by Adam Stedham, CEO and President, who will give an operations and strategic update.

執行長兼總裁 Adam Stedham 也參加了今天的電話會議，他將介紹營運和策略方面的最新情況。

Following our management presentation, we will have a Q&A session.

在我們的管理層介紹之後，我們將舉行問答環節。

I would like to bring your attention to the note on forward-looking statements on slide 3.

我想提請您注意投影片 3 上有關前瞻性陳述的說明。

Today's presentation and the answers to questions include forward-looking statements.

今天的演示和問題的回答包含前瞻性陳述。

It should be understood that actual results could differ materially from those projected due to a number of factors, including those described under the forward-looking statements caption and on the risk factors of the company's annual report on Form 10-K and quarterly reports on Form 10-Q.

應該要理解的是，由於多種因素，包括前瞻性陳述標題中描述的因素以及公司 10-K 表格年度報告和 10-K 表格季度報告的風險因素，實際結果可能與預測結果有重大差異。 Q。

I will now turn the call over to Adam Stedham for some opening remarks.

現在我將把電話轉給 Adam Stedham，讓他發表一些開場白。

Thank you, Nancy.

謝謝你，南希。

Welcome, everyone.

歡迎大家。

I'm pleased to report that although Q2 2024 revenue is effectively flat with 2023, we had significant improvement in gross margin, gross profit and adjusted EBITDA or gross margin percentage that is.

我很高興地報告，雖然 2024 年第二季的收入實際上與 2023 年持平，但我們在毛利率、毛利和調整後 EBITDA 或毛利率百分比方面有了顯著改善。

Noteworthy is that this is now the fourth consecutive quarter of positive adjusted EBITDA.

值得注意的是，這已是連續第四個季度調整後的 EBITDA 為正值。

Given the previously announced change to a large single contract that was subcontracted to us from FedEx, we anticipate the adjusted EBITDA for Q3 may be slightly negative but we anticipate H2 and full year positive adjusted EBITDA.

鑑於先前宣布的從聯邦快遞分包給我們的大型單一合約的變更，我們預計第三季調整後 EBITDA 可能略有負值，但我們預計下半年和全年調整後 EBITDA 為正值。

We previously announced that we anticipate mid-single-digit revenue growth in 2024 over 2023.

我們先前曾宣布，預計 2024 年營收將比 2023 年實現中個位數成長。

As we further evaluate the progress within the authentication segment and the fluctuations in existing customer shipments for Precision Logistics, we now believe 2024 revenue will be roughly in line with 2023, which is much like H1 2024.

隨著我們進一步評估精密物流認證領域的進展以及現有客戶出貨量的波動，我們現在認為 2024 年的營收將與 2023 年大致一致，這與 2024 年上半年非常相似。

With that said, we anticipate our gross profit, gross margin percentage and adjusted EBITDA will exceed 2023.

儘管如此，我們預計我們的毛利、毛利率和調整後 EBITDA 將超過 2023 年。

I'll address the revenue drivers a bit more in a minute.

稍後我將進一步討論收入驅動因素。

However, I would like to point out that we continue to have confidence in 2025 because we do not believe the types of unexpected items that have impacted our revenue growth in 2024 are likely to repeat or impact results to the same extent in 2025.

不過，我想指出的是，我們仍然對 2025 年充滿信心，因為我們不認為影響 2024 年收入成長的意外項目類型可能會在 2025 年重複出現或對結果產生同樣程度的影響。

Now our current cash net of debt is slightly better than this point last year.

現在我們目前的淨債務現金略好於去年的這一點。

We anticipate that we will be roughly flat to slightly positive for cash net of debt for 2024 and we continue to have sufficient cash flow to execute all of our organic current growth plans.

我們預計 2024 年扣除債務的現金淨值將大致持平或略有正值，並且我們繼續擁有足夠的現金流來執行當前所有的有機增長計劃。

We continue to have our announced buyback in place and we're evaluating our strategy around repurchasing shares thus far in 2024, the company has repurchased minimal shares.

我們繼續實施已宣布的回購計劃，並且正在評估 2024 年迄今的回購股票策略，該公司已回購了最低限度的股票。

We continue to monitor all available options to utilize our capital to maximize the shareholders' value.

我們將繼續監控所有可用的選項，以利用我們的資本來實現股東價值最大化。

So let's shift the conversation to our two operating segments.

因此，讓我們將話題轉移到我們的兩個營運部門。

The Precision Logistics segment Q2 2024 revenue is above Q2 2023, just as in Q1 2024.

精準物流部門 2024 年第二季的營收高於 2023 年第二季度，與 2024 年第一季相同。

However, the revenue is not experiencing the growth we had previously expected.

然而，收入並沒有出現我們先前預期的成長。

One contributor to this is the previously announced change to the one FedEx contract.

造成這種情況的原因之一是先前宣布的一份聯邦快遞合約的變更。

But the second factor is partial shipping volumes in the marketplace are down in 2024 versus 2023.

但第二個因素是 2024 年市場部分出貨量較 2023 年下降。

So for H1 2024, our shipments with existing customers are down 9% versus H1 2023.

因此，2024 年上半年，我們對現有客戶的出貨量比 2023 年上半年下降了 9%。

However, we've increased our customers within our proactive service line by 7% in H1 2024 versus 2023.

然而，與 2023 年相比，2024 年上半年我們的主動服務線客戶數量增加了 7%。

So we're pleased with the contribution of our new sales efforts in the interim but the incremental contribution has been offset thus far by year-over-year reductions in volume with existing customers.

因此，我們對臨時新銷售努力的貢獻感到滿意，但到目前為止，增量貢獻已被現有客戶數量的同比減少所抵消。

In time, we anticipate these volumes will increase and add to the growth contributed to our new sales efforts.

隨著時間的推移，我們預計這些銷售將會增加，並促進我們新的銷售努力的成長。

But for now, we're in a market in which our strongest opportunity to grow our revenues is by expanding our existing customer base.

但就目前而言，我們所處的市場中，增加收入的最大機會是擴大現有客戶群。

So we continue to focus our efforts on adding new customers in the region between Maine and Pennsylvania.

因此，我們繼續集中精力在緬因州和賓夕法尼亞州之間的地區增加新客戶。

That's our plan for the remainder of 2024 and then expanded in 2025.

這是我們 2024 年剩餘時間的計劃，然後在 2025 年進行擴展。

We did add 2 additional sales represented as we announced, we expected to hire on our last call.

正如我們宣布的那樣，我們確實增加了 2 名額外的銷售人員，我們預計在上次電話會議中招募。

We continue to believe our plans for expanding our sales force with a targeted geographic approach will create the most value for the company.

我們仍然相信，透過有針對性的地理方法擴大銷售團隊的計劃將為公司創造最大價值。

And our successes and lessons learned from this year will guide our plans for geographic expansion in 2025.

我們今年的成功和經驗教訓將指導我們 2025 年的地域擴張計劃。

So now let me shift to authentication segment for a bit.

現在讓我轉向身份驗證部分。

We've made significant progress on a very involved effort to formalize our relationship with Amazon.

我們在與亞馬遜的關係正式化方面做出了非常積極的努力，並取得了重大進展。

I realize that the effort has taken longer than we anticipated.

我意識到這項工作花費的時間比我們預期的要長。

But we believe the time and energy we're dedicating to this initiative is critical and is a critical element of our plan to deliver meaningful shareholder value.

但我們相信，我們為這項計畫投入的時間和精力至關重要，也是我們提供有意義的股東價值的計畫的關鍵要素。

We anticipated this process and the subsequent revenue generation would occur sooner but the length of the process does not in any way undermine the long-term opportunity associated with the relationship.

我們預計這個過程和隨後的收入產生會更快發生，但這個過程的長度不會以任何方式破壞與這種關係相關的長期機會。

We continue to believe our relationship with Amazon creates significant opportunity to create value for Amazon, our mutual customers and consumers of our customers' brand and, most importantly, to you, VerifyMe shareholders.

我們仍然相信，我們與亞馬遜的關係創造了重要的機會，為亞馬遜、我們的共同客戶和客戶品牌的消費者，以及最重要的是，為您，VerifyMe 股東創造價值。

In addition to the Amazon relationship, we continue to see positive trends for our APAC business, our other strategic relationships, regulatory controls and ink sales.

除了與亞馬遜的關係外，我們還繼續看到亞太地區業務、其他戰略關係、監管控制和油墨銷售的積極趨勢。

We anticipate that our H2 and full year 2024 revenues for authentication will exceed our revenues for the same period in 2023 and I look forward to updating you on these important events as time goes on in the near future.

我們預計，我們的下半年和 2024 年全年認證收入將超過 2023 年同期的收入，我期待在不久的將來向您通報這些重​​要事件的最新情況。

So at this point, I'd like to turn the call back over to Nancy Meyers, our CFO, to provide a more detailed financial report.

因此，此時，我想將電話轉回給我們的財務長南希·邁耶斯 (Nancy Meyers)，以提供更詳細的財務報告。

Thank you, Adam.

謝謝你，亞當。

The second quarter revenue was $5.4 million versus the prior year of $5.3 million.

第二季營收為 540 萬美元，而去年同期為 530 萬美元。

Revenue effectively remained flat in both our Precision Logistics and authentication segments.

我們的精密物流和認證領域的收入實際上保持不變。

Gross profit increased $0.5 million or 32% to $2.1 million in Q2 2024 versus $1.6 million in Q2 2023.

2024 年第二季的毛利增加了 50 萬美元，即 32%，達到 210 萬美元，而 2023 年第二季的毛利為 160 萬美元。

As a percentage of revenue, gross margin increased to 39% in 2024 versus 30% in 2023.

毛利率佔收入的百分比將從 2023 年的 30% 增加到 2024 年的 39%。

The year-over-year increase in gross profit continues to reflect the shift in customer mix and service offerings in our Precision Logistics segment as well as process improvements the company has made.

毛利的同比增長繼續反映了我們精密物流部門客戶結構和服務產品的轉變以及公司所做的流程改進。

As a result of the previously announced change to one significant subcontracts from FedEx, we anticipate H2 gross margins to be below H1 2024.

由於先前宣布對 FedEx 的一項重要分包合約進行變更，我們預計下半年毛利率將低於 2024 年上半年。

We anticipate our full year '24 gross margin to exceed full year 2023 and Q4 gross margin percentage will be below Q3 due to the seasonality associated with our proactive revenue.

我們預計 24 年全年毛利率將超過 2023 年全年，由於與我們主動收入相關的季節性，第四季毛利率百分比將低於第三季。

Overall, our operating expenses were effectively flat year-over-year at $2.6 million.

總體而言，我們的營運支出實際上與去年同期持平，為 260 萬美元。

Our net loss for the quarter improved by $0.6 million to a loss of $0.3 million or a loss of $0.03 per diluted share versus a loss of $9 million in Q2 2023 or a loss of $0.09 per diluted share.

我們本季的淨虧損減少了 60 萬美元，達到虧損 30 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.03 美元，而 2023 年第二季的淨虧損為 900 萬美元，即稀釋後每股虧損 0.09 美元。

Our adjusted EBITDA increased by $0.6 million to positive $0.2 million for the second quarter of 2024.

2024 年第二季度，我們調整後的 EBITDA 增加了 60 萬美元，達到正 20 萬美元。

On the last slide is our balance sheet as of June 30, 2024.

最後一張投影片是我們截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日的資產負債表。

Our cash as of June 30 is $2.9 million, a decrease of $0.2 million from $3.1 million on December 31, 2023.

截至 6 月 30 日，我們的現金為 290 萬美元，比 2023 年 12 月 31 日的 310 萬美元減少了 20 萬美元。

During the first six months of 2024, our use of cash included $0.3 million in repayment of debt and interest.

2024 年前六個月，我們使用的現金包括 30 萬美元用於償還債務和利息。

Due to the seasonality of our Precision Logistics segment, our AR, unbilled revenue and accounts payable are higher at year-end compared to the other 3 quarters.

由於我們精密物流部門的季節性，我們的應收帳款、未開立發票收入和應付帳款在年底時高於其他三個季度。

As of June 30, 2024, we have $1.1 million remaining on our loan and $1.1 million on our convertible note.

截至 2024 年 6 月 30 日，我們的貸款餘額為 110 萬美元，可轉換票據餘額為 110 萬美元。

There are no borrowings under our line of credit, and we have $1 million available to us.

我們的信用額度下沒有借款，我們有 100 萬美元可用。

With that, I would like to turn the call back to Adam.

說到這裡，我想把電話轉回給亞當。

Thank you, Nancy.

謝謝你，南希。

So I've now been with the company for about a year, and I continue to be focused on pivoting from transformation to growth.

我現在已經在公司工作了大約一年，我將繼續專注於從轉型到成長。

The marketplace adoption of authentication and traceability services continues to be slower than we desire.

市場對身份驗證和可追溯性服務的採用仍然比我們期望的要慢。

And in addition, we had some headwinds for partial shipping volumes.

此外，我們在部分運輸量方面遇到了一些阻力。

With that said, we've not shied away from the hard work of moving the company forward.

儘管如此，我們並沒有迴避推動公司前進的努力。

We have a healthy balance sheet, a sales strategy that is taking firm hold and key relationships that are being formalized.

我們擁有健康的資產負債表、穩固的銷售策略以及正在正規化的關鍵關係。

Our positioning in the marketplace is growing stronger than it's ever been.

我們在市場中的地位比以往任何時候都更加強大。

So at this point, let's turn the call over and happy to answer any questions.

現在，讓我們轉接電話並樂意回答任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Jack Vander Aarde, Maxim Group.

（操作員說明）Jack Vander Aarde，Maxim Group。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Adam and Nancy, congrats, I know the guidance, you had to lower it a little bit, but it's good to see a fourth consecutive positive adjusted EBITDA quarter since you've taken over.

亞當和南希，恭喜，我知道指導，你必須稍微降低一點，但很高興看到自你接手以來連續第四個調整後的 EBITDA 季度為正值。

I am aware of your comments.

我知道你的評論。

It sounds like the third quarter EBITDA loss could be -- it could be a loss, a slight loss.

聽起來第三季 EBITDA 損失可能是——可能是損失，輕微的損失。

So I understand that, but good to see that it's supposed to be positive for the year.

所以我理解這一點，但很高興看到今年的情況應該是正面的。

Adam, I'd really like to get your comments and just your perspective on your experience and expectations following the GS1 conference.

Adam，我真的很想聽聽您對 GS1 會議後的經驗和期望的評論和看法。

Any takeaways you had?

有什麼外帶嗎？

So great question.

很好的問題。

So definitely, it was quite interesting.

所以毫無疑問，這非常有趣。

I think one big takeaway is -- and it's impacted us this year, much the same as it seems to be impacting others.

我認為一個重要的收穫是——它今年對我們產生了影響，就像它對其他人的影響一樣。

If you look at many of the regulations out there and many of the things in terms of the Food Safety Modernization Act, the shift from barcodes to more intelligent codes, across the industry thinks the adoption of these things are much slower than everybody expected.

如果你看看現有的許多法規以及《食品安全現代化法案》中的許多內容，從條碼到更聰明的程式碼的轉變，整個產業都會認為這些東西的採用比每個人的預期都要慢得多。

There were many conference sessions around why are things so slow.

有很多會議討論為什麼事情這麼慢。

It seems like many of the companies are taking things cautiously because this is an election year.

由於今年是選舉年，許多公司似乎都在謹慎行事。

They don't know what's going to happen.

他們不知道會發生什麼事。

They have until the beginning of 2026 to have full adoption, 2027 for others.

他們必須在 2026 年初才能獲得全面採用，其他國家則要到 2027 年才能獲得全面採用。

So many companies are taking a wait and see this year, which has slowed the adoption.

今年許多公司都在觀望，這減緩了採用速度。

Therefore, it slowed some of the revenue growth of the suppliers to the marketplace.

因此，它減緩了市場供應商的部分收入成長。

So I thought that was really important.

所以我認為這非常重要。

With that said, if you look at the overall landscape, there's not a lot of -- there's really no indication that the deadlines are going to delay.

話雖如此，如果你看一下整體情況，你會發現並沒有太多——實際上沒有跡象表明最後期限會推遲。

So that gives us optimism about 2025.

這讓我們對 2025 年感到樂觀。

Many of the customers are doing their strategic planning and budgeting for 2025 as we speak, and they're having to plan on these requirements going into place January of 2026.

正如我們所說，許多客戶正在製定 2025 年的策略規劃和預算，他們必須根據 2026 年 1 月實施的這些要求進行規劃。

So I thought that was a -- it was a very interesting and insightful overview of what's happening in the industry.

所以我認為這是對行業正在發生的事情的非常有趣且富有洞察力的概述。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

No, I appreciate that color.

不，我很欣賞這種顏色。

And without getting too specific, you do sound very optimistic about 2025 as well despite maybe a kind of a flat growth for 2024.

不用說得太具體，您聽起來確實對 2025 年非常樂觀，儘管 2024 年可能會出現某種程度的增長。

If I could just circle back maybe to that 5-year target plan you outlined at your Investor Day, how do you feel about those targets still?

如果我可以回顧一下您在投資者日概述的 5 年目標計劃，您對這些目標有何看法？

I think it's kind of like a 17% growth CAGR over time over five years. and marching your way up to certain adjusted EBITDA margins of 15%-plus.

我認為五年內複合年增長率為 17%。並逐步將調整後的 EBITDA 利潤率提高到 15% 以上。

How do you feel about those numbers?

您對這些數字有何感想？

And just kind of -- do you feel like you're still on track as you head into 2025?

進入 2025 年，你覺得自己仍然走在正軌上嗎？

So I do feel good about that, assuming that the regulatory environment doesn't have a significant change, assuming that the marketplace and society continues to move forward in terms of food safety and modernization in terms of the shift in barcodes.

因此，我確實對此感覺良好，假設監管環境沒有重大變化，假設市場和社會在食品安全和現代化方面隨著條碼的轉變而繼續向前發展。

If you look at this year and if you look over the five-year period of time, on our Precision Logistics segment, we knew that some of the work that was being subcontracted to us from FedEx was not going to continue to grow.

如果你看看今年，如果你看看過去的五年，在我們的精密物流部門，我們知道聯邦快遞分包給我們的一些工作不會繼續成長。

We've indicated that they were working on an AI solution internally.

我們已經表示他們正在內部開發人工智慧解決方案。

And so they wouldn't continue to be long-term dependent upon us.

因此他們不會繼續長期依賴我們。

It hit us faster this year than we had anticipated, but we didn't anticipate that continuing to grow throughout the five-year period.

今年它對我們的打擊比我們預期的要快，但我們沒有預料到它會在整個五年期間持續成長。

We anticipated our growth coming from our proactive business.

我們預期我們的成長來自於我們積極主動的業務。

The salespeople we've hired were excited about the pipeline, were excited about the growth that they've had.

我們僱用的銷售人員對通路感到興奮，對他們的成長感到興奮。

This year, it's offset by reductions with our existing customer base.

今年，我們現有客戶群的減少抵消了這一影響。

But over a five-year period of time as those incremental sales continue to kick in, as the existing customer base goes through the normal ebbs and flows of the economic cycles, and we see those shipments return, we feel very good on that side.

但在五年的時間裡，隨著這些增量銷售繼續發揮作用，隨著現有客戶群經歷經濟週期的正常潮起潮落，我們看到這些發貨量回歸，我們在這方面感覺非常好。

So that's precision Logistics feel very strong there on the authentication side as long as there aren't significant changes to the regulatory drivers that we believe are going to drive this business, we continue to have confidence there as well.

因此，只要我們認為將推動這項業務的監管驅動因素沒有重大變化，精準物流在認證方面就會感覺非常強大，我們也將繼續對此充滿信心。

Okay.

好的。

Great.

偉大的。

Very much appreciate the color there.

非常欣賞那裡的顏色。

And just one more point, just kind of for -- to clarify just because I may have missed it.

還有一點，只是為了澄清一下，因為我可能錯過了這一點。

Did I hear correctly parcel shipments from -- in 1H 24 from existing customers, those are down 9% year-over-year, but shipments from new customers were up 7% year-over-year.

我沒聽錯嗎——24 小時 1 小時，現有客戶的包裹出貨量年減了 9%，但新客戶的出貨量年增了 7%。

Is that correct?

這是正確的嗎？

Not exactly.

不完全是。

Our shipment volumes, I kind of mixed this up on you.

我們的出貨量，我有點把你搞混了。

Maybe I should have done it differently, but just so we're all clear, the shipment volumes are down 9% year-over-year.

也許我應該採取不同的做法，但我們都清楚，出貨量比去年同期下降了 9%。

Our total new customers is up 7%.

我們的新客戶總數增加了 7%。

So we've added a significant number of customers.

因此，我們增加了大量客戶。

So on one hand, I'm comparing the volumes with existing customers year-over-year and on the other hand, I'm comparing the total number of customers year-over-year.

因此，一方面，我逐年比較現有客戶的數量，另一方面，我逐年比較客戶總數。

Got it.

知道了。

Very much appreciate the clarity there.

非常欣賞那裡的清晰度。

Makes sense.

有道理。

Well, I appreciate the update and glad to hear you have sufficient cash to continue organic growth objectives.

好吧，我很高興聽到您有足夠的現金來繼續有機成長目標。

Michael John Petusky, Barrington Research.

邁克爾·約翰·佩圖斯基，巴靈頓研究中心。

Adam, so I'm curious, did any -- was there any impact in the quarter from the FedEx Premium business?

亞當，所以我很好奇，聯邦快遞保費業務對本季有任何影響嗎？

Or did that business sort of continue as normal through June?

或者這種業務在整個六月都正常持續嗎？

Or did some of that actually get into the quarter?

或者其中一些實際上已進入本季度？

It did.

確實如此。

It did come into the quarter.

它確實進入了本季度。

It transitioned between midway and two-thirds through the quarter is when it transitioned.

它在本季度的中期和三分之二之間發生了轉變。

Okay.

好的。

Is there any quantification of that impact by any chance?

是否可以量化這種影響？

I don't think we've put any quantification out publicly on that.

我認為我們還沒有公開對此進行任何量化。

Okay.

好的。

All right.

好的。

And then your comments on '25, I'm just curious, there's additional premium business at FedEx, I don't believe, did transition, but sort of remains.

然後你對 25 年的評論，我只是好奇，聯邦快遞有額外的優質業務，我不相信，確實發生了轉變，但仍然存在。

And I'm just curious, are your '25 comments, and I may be totally overreading this, but your confidence around '25.

我只是很好奇，你的 25 年評論是嗎？

Does that indicate that you've been giving any sense that, hey, that remaining premium business will continue for the foreseeable future or not?

這是否表明您一直認為，嘿，剩餘的優質業務在可預見的未來是否會繼續？

What I can say -- so I can't answer directly, but I'll try to answer indirectly.

我能說什麼——所以我不能直接回答，但我會嘗試間接回答。

We're really pleased with the relationship we have with FedEx, and they're very transparent with us about what their strategies are and we're very aware of when existing contracts with our mutual customers with FedEx come up for renewal and looking at when those customers come up for renewal in combination with the strategy that FedEx has shared with us, that's what gives us the confidence about '25.

我們對與聯邦快遞的關係非常滿意，他們對我們的策略非常透明，我們非常清楚與聯邦快遞共同客戶的現有合約何時需要續簽，並考慮何時續訂這些客戶結合聯邦快遞與我們分享的策略提出續約，這讓我們對'25 充滿信心。

I think we're only talking about maybe a couple of two, three contracts, right, that remain there that make up the remaining whatever it is, a couple of million of premium, is that right?

我想我們只是在談論可能有兩三份合同，對吧，這些合同仍然存在，構成剩餘的，無論是什麼，幾百萬的溢價，是嗎？

Right.

正確的。

There's a small number, yes.

是的，數量很少。

It's only

這只是

[expected].

[預期的]。

Okay.

好的。

So can I ask just sort of for longer-term modeling?

那我可以要求進行長期建模嗎？

I mean, do those contracts start to come up in '26?

我的意思是，這些合約會在 26 年開始出現嗎？

Is that essentially how we should sort of read your comment?

這本質上是我們應該如何閱讀您的評論嗎？

Yes, that's how I would think about it.

是的，我就是這麼想的。

From a modeling perspective, that's how I would think about it.

從建模的角度來看，這就是我的想法。

Okay.

好的。

And so intuitively then I would assume that it may be prudent to assume kind of a couple of million dollar drag in '26 if one was modeling out multiple years here.

因此，憑直覺，我會假設，如果一個人在這裡建模多年，那麼假設 26 年會拖累幾百萬美元可能是謹慎的做法。

Is that fair?

這樣公平嗎？

From a modeling exercise perspective, I think that, that's a fair way to model.

從建模練習的角度來看，我認為這是一種公平的建模方式。

I believe that it's hard -- in the world right now, it's hard to predict six months from now, much less 1.5 years from now.

我認為這很難——在當今世界，很難預測 6 個月後的情況，更不用說 1.5 年後的情況了。

And we -- the other thing I would think -- that you need to think about, if you remember back to the Strategy Day, there's three components, there's three types of revenue.

我們——我認為的另一件事——你需要考慮一下，如果你還記得戰略日的話，有三個組成部分，有三種類型的收入。

So there's proactive revenue where we're out selling customers and we're effectively subcontracting FedEx; there is premium revenue, traditional premium revenue, where FedEx has subcontracted us, and that's at a elevated gross margin because of the way it's structured.

因此，我們透過向客戶銷售產品並有效地分包聯邦快遞來獲得積極的收入；有保費收入，傳統的保費收入，聯邦快遞已將其分包給我們，由於其結構方式，毛利率較高。

And then there's a direct premium part of our business as well, which was very small when we had our Strategy Day.

我們的業務還有直接的溢價部分，當我們舉辦策略日時，這部分規模非常小。

But this is a part of the business that our new sales force is selling and on a percentage basis, it's actually the area that's experiencing the most growth for us on a percentage basis, but it's very small at this point.

但這是我們新銷售團隊正在銷售的業務的一部分，從百分比來看，它實際上是我們成長最快的領域，但目前它的規模非常小。

So what direct premium means, just as a reminder, it's much like premium.

那麼直接溢價意味著什麼，提醒一下，它很像溢價。

In that the -- we get paid by a customer and it operates at a much higher gross margin because we don't have incremental costs associated with servicing it.

在這一點上，我們由客戶支付費用，並且它的毛利率要高得多，因為我們沒有與服務相關的增量成本。

They have a contract with FedEx to handle the shipping so that shipping cost doesn't move through us.

他們與聯邦快遞簽訂了合約來處理運輸，這樣運輸成本就不會透過我們轉移。

And they have a contract directly with us to handle all of the value-added services that sit on top of the shipping.

他們直接與我們簽訂了合同，負責處理除運輸之外的所有增值服務。

So although the direct premium, we -- I do think, over time, where FedEx is subcontracting us, I completely agree that the model should be that, that's going to go down over time.

因此，儘管直接溢價，我們 - 我確實認為，隨著時間的推移，聯邦快遞將我們分包給我們，我完全同意該模型應該是這樣的，隨著時間的推移，它會下降。

Hopefully, over the next quarter and going forward, I'll be able to give you more guidance on the ramp-up of the premium, the third leg of our stool, that direct premium because it is growing in a meaningful way.

希望在下個季度以及未來，我能夠就保費的增加提供更多指導，這是我們凳子的第三條腿，即直接保費，因為它正在以有意義的方式增長。

It's too early to tell, and we don't have enough data to be able to guide you for 2025 and 2026, but we hope to have that by our next call.

現在下結論還為時過早，我們沒有足夠的數據來為您提供 2025 年和 2026 年的指導，但我們希望在下次電話會議時能夠獲得這些數據。

Adam, can I just ask a quick question on that.

亞當，我可以問一個簡單的問題嗎？

How much of the remaining premium business is direct premium?

剩餘保費業務有多少是直接保費？

What percentage, like 10% a quarter.

百分比是多少，例如每季 10%。

I mean what percentage of it is direct premium?

我的意思是其中直接保費的百分比是多少？

I don't have an exact number, and I don't want to -- particularly on this call, I don't want to give you something that is not accurate because I know you're going to put it into modeling.

我沒有確切的數字，我也不想——特別是在這次電話會議上，我不想給你一些不準確的東西，因為我知道你會把它放入建模中。

So we'll get that number to you so you can incorporate it into your model.

因此，我們會將這個數字提供給您，以便您可以將其合併到您的模型中。

Does that -- is that worth?

這值得嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對地。

I mean it's fair to say, no, it's not the majority?

我的意思是，可以公平地說，不，這不是大多數？

Correct.

正確的。

Correct.

正確的。

Right, right.

對，對。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

It's on the smaller percentage side of it.

它位於較小的百分比一側。

But we'll get it to you and we'll get it to both of the analysts, right?

但我們會把它交給你，我們會把它交給兩位分析師，對嗎？

Just so you both have it for modeling.

這樣你們就可以用它來建模了。

And then, Adam, last question, just sort of a follow-up on the earlier analyst question on the longer-term targets.

然後，亞當，最後一個問題，只是先前分析師關於長期目標的問題的後續。

I mean I don't know that I would take your commentary as an affirmation of the targets you guys put out at the Investor Day.

我的意思是，我不知道我會將您的評論視為對您在投資者日提出的目標的肯定。

I mean, is it fair to say that now it's -- that's aspirational, but not necessarily that you would not be comfortable saying you've affirmed those five-year targets.

我的意思是，可以公平地說，現在是——這是有抱負的，但不一定你會不願意說你已經確認了這些五年目標。

I mean, is that fair?

我的意思是，這公平嗎？

Or is it -- or are you...

或者是——或者你是...

I think that's fair.

我認為這是公平的。

I think, in essence, we're on track for our efficiency gains and our margin improvement.

我認為，從本質上講，我們正在提高效率和提高利潤率。

We are on track for our strategy we're not over a five-year period of time, significantly changed by the FedEx subcontracting model, all of that.

我們的策略正在走上正軌，我們的策略不會超過五年，聯邦快遞分包模式將顯著改變，所有這些。

With that said, obviously, we're not in this year achieving the revenue that we had desired to achieve this year.

話雖如此，顯然，我們今年並沒有實現我們希望今年實現的收入。

So it does back things up a little bit in the model.

所以它確實支持了模型中的一些內容。

So I don't necessarily think that the trajectory of the model is shifting but the starting point of the model is moving to the right a bit because of the revenue gains that aren't materializing this year as we had anticipated.

因此，我不一定認為模型的軌跡正在發生變化，但模型的起點正在向右移動一點，因為今年的收入成長並未像我們預期的那樣實現。

Let me squeeze one last one in.

讓我把最後一顆塞進去。

In terms of authentication and what you're trying to do with Amazon, I guess -- and I understand this is a drag, but I mean, are you hopeful that you can sort of get where you want to in terms of formalizing that relationship by the year-end or by the time you guys report year-end?

就身份驗證以及您試圖與亞馬遜做的事情而言，我想 - 我知道這是一個阻力，但我的意思是，您是否希望在正式化這種關係方面能夠達到您想要的目標到年底還是到你們報告年終的時候？

Or how are you thinking about that?

還是你怎麼想的？

Yes, definitely by year-end, I am -- I mean, quite transparently I would -- we anticipated we would have it by now.

是的，肯定到年底，我——我的意思是，非常透明地我會——我們預計我們現在就會擁有它。

So -- but it's more -- it's complicated.

所以——但更重要的是——它很複雜。

And -- but just because it's complicated doesn't mean that it's not valuable.

而且——但它很複雜並不意味著它沒有價值。

It just means that it's taking more time than we expected.

這只是意味著它花費的時間比我們預期的要多。

So without a doubt, by year-end, I would anticipate that.

因此，毫無疑問，到年底，我預計會出現這種情況。

Is this the kind of relationship that you feel like essentially is bigger than the current run rate of the business?

您認為這種關係本質上比企業目前的運作速度更大嗎？

I mean is it of that magnitude?

我的意思是它有那麼大嗎？

The run rate of the authentication business or the overall business?

認證業務的運作率還是整體業務的運作率？

No, the authentication business.

不，是認證業務。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

I think that if it materializes effectively, it should be.

我認為，如果它能夠有效實現，那就應該如此。

I think that the relationship transforms that business.

我認為這種關係改變了該業務。

I believe it's a transformative relationship for the very nature of what we're able to provide and the value what we can provide to a certain subset of consumers.

我相信，對於我們能夠提供的產品的本質以及我們可以為特定消費者群體提供的價值而言，這是一種變革性的關係。

So it's absolutely -- it changes the game for that side of the business.

所以這絕對是——它改變了這方面業務的遊戲規則。

And Mike, just to give you the direct premium number, it's running about 10%.

麥克，我想告訴你直接保費數字，大約是 10%。

(Operator Instructions) Jeff Porter, Porter Capital Management.

（操作員指令）Jeff Porter，波特資本管理公司。

Adam, I'm wondering if you can elaborate in the Amazon perspective relationship.

Adam，我想知道你是否可以詳細說明亞馬遜的視角關係。

What gives us a competitive advantage there?

是什麼為我們帶來了競爭優勢？

And are you seeing others that we're competing with for that business?

您是否看到我們正在與其他人競爭該業務？

If there were others that were competing for the business, that could very well happen and we not know of it.

如果還有其他人在競爭這項業務，這種情況很可能會發生，而我們並不知道。

So I want to be very transparent about that.

所以我想對此保持透明。

With that said, we believe right now, we are the only 1 who is working on this.

話雖如此，我們相信現在我們是唯一致力於此的人。

That's what our current belief is and that belief is based upon on the facts and the conversations that we've had thus far.

這就是我們目前的信念，而這個信念是基於事實和我們迄今為止所進行的對話的。

So that's our current belief.

這就是我們目前的信念。

We don't believe that we will be the only one forever.

我們不相信我們會永遠是唯一的。

I think that would be naive, I believe.

我認為這太天真了。

But as of right now, we are the only one.

但截至目前，我們是唯一的。

And what gives us the confidence as was previously announced by -- not necessarily by us but by one of our customers, we've already demonstrated a proof of concept with one of our customers that's actually integrated in and going live.

正如之前所宣布的那樣，這給了我們信心——不一定是我們，而是我們的一位客戶，我們已經向我們的一位客戶展示了概念驗證，該概念已實際整合並投入使用。

So that's what gives us the sense of confidence overall.

這就是給我們整體信心的原因。

Great.

偉大的。

And could you speak to what the margins on this business prospectively would be?

您能否談談該業務的預期利潤率是多少？

Not exactly.

不完全是。

The margins will be roughly in line with our authentication margins overall.

利潤將與我們的整體認證利潤大致一致。

It won't vary tremendously from our existing.

它不會與我們現有的有太大不同。

And much of the margin depends upon the actual go-to-market strategy.

大部分利潤取決於實際的上市策略。

So if we have a customer that wants just codes, that's extremely high gross margins.

因此，如果我們的客戶只想要代碼，那麼毛利率就會非常高。

If they want codes that we put on label and they buy an integrated label with codes then there's lower margin because you can't demand the same margin on a label markup that you can on the intellectual property associated with the codes.

如果他們想要我們貼在標籤上的程式碼，並且購買帶有程式碼的整合標籤，那麼利潤就會較低，因為你不能在標籤標記上要求與程式碼相關的智慧財產權相同的利潤。

So it's difficult for us to exactly predict because we don't know the product mix between label and non-label that the consumers will go with or the brands will go with.

因此，我們很難準確預測，因為我們不知道消費者會選擇什麼或品牌會選擇什麼標籤和非標籤產品組合。

So based upon that, if we assume it will follow the traditional pattern of the authentication business, then you could model that the gross margins would stay intact of what authentication generates right now.

因此，基於此，如果我們假設它將遵循身份驗證業務的傳統模式，那麼您可以建模，毛利率將保持不變，與身份驗證目前產生的利潤相同。

And this concludes our question-and-answer session.

我們的問答環節到此結束。

I'd like to turn the conference back over to the company for any closing remarks.

我想將會議轉回公司進行閉幕致詞。

Thank you very much for that.

非常感謝你。

So as I said, it's been about a year.

正如我所說，已經過去了大約一年。

It's been a really educational year for me and we're sitting here.

對我來說，這是非常有教育意義的一年，我們坐在這裡。

And I do believe that we're on track from a strategy perspective, we're on track from an efficiency perspective and in many of our sales efforts, we're on track from an incremental sales perspective, but those sales have been counterbalanced by some headwinds in part of the business.

我確實相信，從策略角度來看，我們正走在正軌上，從效率角度來看，我們正走在正軌上，而且在我們的許多銷售工作中，從增量銷售的角度來看，我們正走在正軌上，但這些銷售已被部分業務遇到一些阻力。

But none of that changes the optimism on the Precision Logistics side to realize the growth that we expect to realize over time.

但這些都沒有改變精密物流方面對實現我們期望隨著時間的推移實現的成長的樂觀態度。

And then on the authentication side, we're dealing with a business that is -- continues to be very small, very subscale dependent upon key relationships that will give us tremendous leverage.

然後在身份驗證方面，我們正在處理的業務仍然非常小，規模非常小，並依賴關鍵關係，這將為我們帶來巨大的影響力。

And as there's been delays formalizing those relationships, it's delayed our leverage.

由於這些關係的正式化出現了延誤，我們的影響力也被推遲了。

Nonetheless, we do believe those relationships are going to materialize, and that will result in the leverage that we need to allow this subscale business to grow in a very meaningful way.

儘管如此，我們確實相信這些關係將會實現，這將帶來我們所需的槓桿作用，讓這個小規模業務以非常有意義的方式發展。

So I look forward to giving updates on the next call.

因此，我期待在下次通話中提供最新情況。

And then ideally speaking, we anticipate there will be updates between now and then as well.

理想情況下，我們預計從現在到那時也會有更新。

So thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

This concludes today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

We thank you all for attending today's presentation.

我們感謝大家參加今天的演講。

You may now disconnect your lines, and have a wonderful day.

您現在可以斷開線路，度過美好的一天。