Velocity Financial Inc (VEL) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to the Velocity Financial Inc fourth quarter 2025 conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, today's event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Velocity Financial Inc 2025 年第四季電話會議。（操作說明）請注意，今天的活動正在錄製中。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Chris Oltmann, Treasurer. Please go ahead.

現在我將把會議交給財務主管克里斯·奧特曼。請繼續。

Thanks, Rocco. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the discussion of Velocity's fourth quarter and full year results. Joining me today are Chris Farrar, Velocity's President and Chief Executive Officer; and Mark Szczepaniak, Velocity's Chief Financial Officer. Earlier this afternoon, we released our results, and you can find the press release and accompanying presentation that we will refer to during this call on our Investor Relations website at www.velfinance.com. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call may include forward-looking statements, which are uncertain and outside of the company's control, and actual results may differ materially.

謝謝你，羅科。大家好，感謝各位今天參加我們對 Velocity 第四季和全年業績的討論。今天與我一同出席的有 Velocity 的總裁兼執行長 Chris Farrar，以及 Velocity 的財務長 Mark Szczepaniak。今天下午早些時候，我們發布了業績報告。您可以在我們的投資者關係網站 www.velfinance.com 上找到新聞稿和相關簡報，我們將在本次電話會議中提及這些內容。我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述具有不確定性，且不受公司控制，實際結果可能與這些陳述有重大差異。

For a discussion of some of the risks and other factors that could affect results, please see the risk factors and other cautionary statements made in our communications with shareholders, including the risk factors disclosed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Please also note that the content of this conference call contains time-sensitive information that is accurate only as of today, and we do not undertake any duty to update forward-looking statements. We may also refer to certain non-GAAP measures on this call. For reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures, you should refer to the earnings materials on our Investor Relations website. And finally, today's call is being recorded and will be available on the company's website later today.

有關可能影響績效的一些風險和其他因素的討論，請參閱我們在與股東溝通中提出的風險因素和其他警示性聲明，包括我們在向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中披露的風險因素。另請注意，本次電話會議的內容包含時效性信息，這些信息僅截至今日準確無誤，我們不承擔更新前瞻性聲明的任何義務。在本次電話會議中，我們也可能會提及某些非GAAP指標。有關這些非GAAP指標的調節表，請參閱我們投資者關係網站上的收益資料。最後，今天的電話會議正在錄音，稍後將在公司網站上提供錄音。

And with that, I will now turn the call over to Chris Farrar.

接下來，我將把電話交給克里斯·法拉爾。

Thanks, Chris, and I'd like to welcome everyone. I appreciate you joining our 2025 year-end earnings call. Pleased to report another incredible year of performance and very proud of what our team accomplished. Through hard work and dedication to our vision, we recognized record levels in originations, portfolio growth, new securitizations, book value, pretax ROE and earnings. Credit belongs to my amazing team members who are talented and passionate about our mission.

謝謝克里斯，也歡迎各位的到來。感謝您參加我們2025年終業績電話會議。很高興地向大家報告另一個令人矚目的業績年度，並為我們的團隊所取得的成就感到非常自豪。透過辛勤工作和對我們願景的執著追求，我們在貸款發放、投資組合成長、新證券化、帳面價值、稅前淨資產收益率和收益方面都取得了創紀錄的成績。這要歸功於我出色的團隊成員，他們才華橫溢，對我們的使命充滿熱情。

I believe they are our greatest asset. From a macro perspective, we see healthy activity in the fixed income markets as our deals are oversubscribed and spreads are tight. Our pipeline is growing. Our end real estate markets are healthy, and we're optimistic about our prospects going forward. In terms of our specific results, core net income increased by 52% to $111 million, which also drove a new record level of pretax ROE of 26%.

我認為他們是我們最大的財富。從宏觀角度來看，固定收益市場活動活躍，我們的交易認購踴躍，利差收窄。我們的業務拓展正在成長。我們的終端房地產市場狀況良好，我們對未來的前景持樂觀態度。就我們的具體業績而言，核心淨收入成長了 52%，達到 1.11 億美元，這也推動稅前 ROE 達到創紀錄的 26%。

Importantly, we achieved this growth while maintaining our margins and credit discipline. With respect to originations, we increased volume by 49% to a record $2.7 billion, driven by increases in productivity from our account executives. The increased volume also set a record for our capital markets team with nine new securitizations and $2.6 billion in new issuance. On a net basis, the portfolio grew by 28% versus the prior year, and our asset management team successfully resolved $331 million in NPLs with net recoveries of $30 million. At year-end, we entered into a transformative partnership whereby we sold $129 million of NPLs and retained the servicing rights for the entire pool of loans.

重要的是，我們在保持利潤率和信貸紀律的同時實現了這一增長。在貸款發放方面，由於客戶經理的工作效率提高，我們的貸款金額增加了 49%，達到創紀錄的 27 億美元。交易量的增加也為我們的資本市場團隊創下了紀錄，新增證券化交易9筆，新發行額達26億美元。從淨額來看，該投資組合比上一年增長了 28%，我們的資產管理團隊成功解決了 3.31 億美元的不良貸款，淨回收額為 3000 萬美元。年底，我們達成了一項變革性的合作關係，出售了 1.29 億美元的不良貸款，並保留了所有貸款的償還權。

This transaction drove significant earnings in Q4, but also freed up approximately $50 million in working capital and will drive future earnings from the servicing fees earned. All in all, a great transaction as this team continues to impress and drive meaningful results to the bottom line. From a liquidity perspective, we've never been stronger as we issued our first rated unsecured debt offering for $500 million in January, which gives us greater flexibility and makes us less reliant on short-term warehouse lines. This new capital will help us execute our long-term plan of growing book value and maximizing shareholder returns. Looking forward, we have great momentum and are well positioned to continue our growth.

這項交易在第四季度帶來了可觀的收益，同時也釋放了約 5,000 萬美元的營運資金，並將推動未來服務費收入的成長。總而言之，這是一筆非常棒的交易，因為該團隊持續給人留下深刻印象，並為公司盈利帶來了顯著的成果。從流動性角度來看，我們從未如此強大，因為我們在 1 月份發行了首筆 5 億美元的評級無擔保債務，這使我們擁有更大的靈活性，並減少了對短期倉儲信貸的依賴。這筆新資金將幫助我們執行長期計劃，即提高帳面價值並最大限度地提高股東回報。展望未來，我們發展勢頭強勁，並已做好充分準備繼續成長。

That concludes my prepared remarks, and we'll turn over to page 3 in the earnings presentation. Summing up '25 was really just a fantastic year for us. You can see growth across the Board, 26% pretax ROE, grew book value by 21% and maintained a very healthy NIM at 3.6%. Turning to page 4. Digging into the fourth quarter, you can see core net income of $36.3 million or $0.93 a share, up from $0.60 a share from Q4 '24.

我的發言到此結束，接下來我們將翻到收益報告的第3頁。總結起來，2025年對我們來說真是精彩的一年。可以看到各方面都實現了成長，稅前淨資產收益率達到 26%，帳面價值成長了 21%，淨利差保持得非常健康，達到 3.6%。翻到第4頁。深入分析第四季度，可以看到核心淨收入為 3,630 萬美元，每股 0.93 美元，高於 2024 年第四季的每股 0.60 美元。

I mentioned that the NIM was very healthy and stable at 3.59%. In terms of production, $634 million for the quarter, up 12.5% from the prior year and mentioned the activity in both the portfolio in NPLs. As a result of that NPL sale, NPLs were down to 8.5% at the end of the year. Again, hitting on the asset management team, they continue to do a great job of realizing net gains, and we've expanded our disclosures in this year's 10-K and in these earnings materials, we're reflecting total revenue that we recognize from the NPLs. And that really just -- we've always made those fees and made that income, but it's been difficult to suss out in the financials.

我提到 NIM 非常健康穩定，為 3.59%。就生產而言，本季為 6.34 億美元，比上年增長 12.5%，並提到了不良貸款組合的活動。由於那次不良貸款出售，年底不良貸款率降至 8.5%。再次強調資產管理團隊，他們繼續出色地實現了淨收益，我們擴大了今年 10-K 表格和這些收益材料中的披露範圍，反映了我們從不良貸款中確認的總收入。而這其實就是──我們一直都在收取這些費用，賺取這些收入，但在財務報表中卻很難弄清楚。

So we broke that out and showed the activity from regular accrued interest as well. As you can see for the quarter, that was a total of $7.6 million. So that team continues to do a great job for us. In terms of financing and capital, I mentioned that we've done a number of securitizations in the year. We did do our second private securitization where we had one investor taking down the entire transaction.

因此，我們將其單獨列出，並展示了定期應計利息的活動。如您所見，本季總計為 760 萬美元。所以，這支團隊一直以來都為我們做得非常好。在融資和資本方面，我提到我們今年已經完成了一些證券化專案。我們確實完成了第二次私人證券化交易，其中一位投資者承擔了全部交易費用。

And we like that execution and think it's a great diversification as we move forward. I mentioned the strong liquidity position, $92 million in unrestricted cash and plenty of warehouse capacity. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, we're really proud of the NPL transaction that we were able to close in the fourth quarter, recognizing $13.4 million of net income as a result of that sale and releasing about $50 million of working capital to fund future production.

我們喜歡這種執行方式，並認為這是我們未來發展的一個良好多元化方向。我提到了強勁的流動性狀況，9,200萬美元的非限制性現金和充足的倉儲能力。正如我在開場白中提到的，我們非常自豪地宣布，我們在第四季度完成了 NPL 交易，該交易確認了 1340 萬美元的淨收入，並釋放了約 5000 萬美元的營運資金，用於未來的生產。

With that, I'll turn it over to Mark for page 5.

接下來，我將把第五頁交給馬克。

Thanks, Chris. Hi, everyone. Another year is in the books for Velocity. And as Chris had mentioned, Velocity is really ending the year strong. We go to page 5 and look at our loan production.

謝謝你，克里斯。大家好。Velocity 又走過了一年。正如克里斯提到的那樣，Velocity 車隊以強勁的勢頭結束了這一年。我們翻到第 5 頁，查看我們的貸款發放。

Total loan production for the fourth quarter was just under $635 million in UPB. As Chris mentioned, that's 12.6% year over year increase from about $563 million in Q4 2024. The strong production growth during 2025 included the weighted average coupon on new Q4 held for investment originations continuing to come in strong at just a little over 10%. Originations in Q4 also continued at tight credit levels, resulting in a weighted average loan-to-value for the quarter of just under 63%. 2025 total year loan production was $2.7 billion in UPB, and that was almost a 47.5% year over year increase over the $1.9 billion in production for 2024.

第四季貸款總額（未償付餘額）略低於 6.35 億美元。正如克里斯所提到的，這比 2024 年第四季的約 5.63 億美元增長了 12.6%。2025 年強勁的產量成長包括第四季度新投資貸款的加權平均票息持續保持強勁勢頭，略高於 10%。第四季貸款發放仍在信貸緊縮的環境下進行，導致該季度加權平均貸款價值比略低於63%。 2025年全年貸款總額（未償付餘額）為27億美元，較2024年的19億美元增加近47.5%。

Over 6,600 loans were originated during 2025. The strong 2025 production was a result of continued organic growth of our borrower base and strong demand for our product. As a result of the continued strong growth in production, if you look at page 6, it shows the year over year growth in our overall loan portfolio. The total loan portfolio as of the end of the year for '25 was $6.5 billion in UPB, which is a 28.4% increase over the $5.1 billion as of December 31, 2024. The weighted average coupon on our total portfolio at the end of the year was 9.7%.

2025年共發放了6,600多筆貸款。2025 年強勁的產量得益於我們借款人基礎的持續自然增長以及對我們產品的強勁需求。由於生產持續強勁成長，如果您查看第 6 頁，您會發現我們的整體貸款組合實現了同比增長。截至 2025 年末，貸款組合總額為 65 億美元未償餘額，比 2024 年 12 月 31 日的 51 億美元增加了 28.4%。年底我們全部投資組合的加權平均票息為 9.7%。

As Chris mentioned, a 21 basis points year over year increase. The total portfolio weighted average loan to value remained consistently low at 65% as of December 31, '25, and the average loan balance remained consistent at about $390,000. On page 7, it shows our recent quarterly portfolio net interest margin. And you can see Q4 of '24, Q3 of '25 and Q4 of '25, very, very consistent net interest margins. It's not on the slide, but on an annual basis, our portfolio-related net interest margin was 3.61%, which is about a 1.4% increase over our 2024 net interest margin of 3.56%.

正如克里斯所提到的，年成長了 21 個基點。截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，總投資組合加權平均貸款價值比一直維持在 65% 的較低水平，平均貸款餘額也維持在 39 萬美元左右。第 7 頁顯示了我們最近的季度投資組合淨利差。你可以看到 2024 年第四季、2025 年第三季和 2025 年第四季的淨利差非常非常穩定。雖然投影片上沒有顯示，但按年計算，我們與投資組合相關的淨利差為 3.61%，比 2024 年的淨利差 3.56% 成長了約 1.4%。

Over the year, our portfolio yield increased 39 basis points year over year, while our portfolio cost of funds increased year over year by only 18 basis points. The portfolio yield increase was mainly driven by strong loan production during the year and higher loan coupons. And the increase in the portfolio cost of funds was mainly due to an increase in the securitization market yields. On page 8, our nonperforming loan rate at the end of 2025 was 8.5% compared to 10.7% at the end of '24. And the decrease, as Chris mentioned, was a combination of the sale of $129 million in UPB of NPL loans sold during Q4 as well as a combination of continued strong resolutions during the entire year by our special servicing department.

一年來，我們的投資組合收益率年增 39 個基點，而投資組合資金成本較去年同期成長僅 18 個基點。投資組合收益率的成長主要得益於年內強勁的貸款發放和更高的貸款利率。投資組合資金成本的增加主要是由於證券化市場報酬率的上升。第 8 頁顯示，到 2025 年底，我們的不良貸款率為 8.5%，而 2024 年底為 10.7%。正如克里斯所提到的，下降的原因在於第四季度出售了 1.29 億美元的不良貸款未償餘額，以及我們特殊服務部門在全年持續取得的良好解決方案。

The table to the right of the page shows our loans held for investment portfolio, including both our amortized cost and fair value loans and shows the total year over year net nonperforming loan valuation allowance we have for our nonperforming loans. As of December 31, '25, the amortized cost loan portfolio had a $4.5 million CECL reserve and the fair value portfolio had a $48.3 million valuation adjustment allowance for a combined valuation allowance on the entire loans held for investment portfolio of about 81 basis points. Both of these valuation adjustments are required under US GAAP.

頁面右側的表格顯示了我們持有的投資組合貸款，包括我們的攤銷成本貸款和公允價值貸款，並顯示了我們為不良貸款提列的年度淨不良貸款估值準備金總額。截至 2025 年 12 月 31 日，攤餘成本貸款組合的 CECL 準備金為 450 萬美元，公允價值組合的估值調整準備金為 4830 萬美元，投資組合中所有貸款的綜合估值準備金約為 81 個基點。根據美國通用會計準則，這兩項估價調整都是必要的。

The unrealized valuation adjustment on our nonperforming fair value loans represents the value for which the loans under US GAAP could be sold out in the secondary market. However, we do not plan on selling NPL loans since our in-house special servicing department has a history of producing net gains and very successful resolutions on these loans. Turning to page 9. Again, it just shows our CECL loan loss reserve, which we said was at $4.5 million for the end of the year or 22 basis points of our outstanding amortized cost held for investment portfolio. And the CECL loan loss reserve does not include the loans being carried at fair value, just saw on the previous page.

我們不良公允價值貸款的未實現估值調整代表了根據美國通用會計準則在二級市場出售這些貸款的價值。然而，我們不打算出售不良貸款，因為我們內部的特殊服務部門在處理這些貸款方面有著淨收益和非常成功解決方案的記錄。翻到第9頁。再次強調，這只是顯示了我們的 CECL 貸款損失準備金，我們曾表示，截至年底，該準備金為 450 萬美元，相當於我們未償還的已攤銷投資組合成本的 22 個基點。如上一頁所示，CECL貸款損失準備金不包括以公允價值計量的貸款。

For 2025, our net gain loss from loan charge-offs and REO-related activities at the bottom of that table is a net loss of $3.7 million, mainly as a result of a couple of large legacy loan charge-offs. There are some older loans. We wanted to clean those up. We don't have those type of loans in our portfolio anymore. So that's losses well above our historical loss experience.

2025 年，我們在表格底部列出的貸款核銷和 REO 相關活動的淨收益損失為 370 萬美元，主要是由於幾筆較大的遺留貸款核銷造成的。還有一些較早的貸款。我們想把那些東西清理乾淨。我們的投資組合中已不再包含此類貸款。所以，目前的損失遠高於我們以往的損失經驗。

We do not foresee these types of losses going forward because of the continued favorable resolutions of our nonperforming loans and that significant loss allowance adjustment that you saw on the previous page for the fair value loans. Page 10 presents the enhanced disclosure that Chris was mentioning on our nonperforming loan resolution activity. So the first set of three, four columns there is what we've always shown in the past when we go up to the net gain or loss on NPL loan resolution, which brings in the amount of default interest and prepayment fee income over and above contractual principal and interest. But what we hadn't really shown was what's the contractual interest that we go back and pull in. Under GAAP, you have to reverse that out when a loan goes nonperforming.

由於不良貸款持續得到有利解決，以及您在上一頁看到的公允價值貸款的重大損失準備金調整，我們預計未來不會出現此類損失。第 10 頁介紹了 Chris 提到的關於我們不良貸款處置活動的增強揭露。因此，前三、四列是我們過去一直展示的，用於計算不良貸款處置的淨收益或損失，其中包括違約利息和提前還款費用收入，這些收入超過了合約規定的本金和利息。但我們還沒有真正展示的是，我們回去爭取的是什麼樣的合約利益。根據公認會計準則，當貸款變為不良貸款時，必須將其沖銷。

So once we resolve the loan, we're collecting all of that contractual interest in cash. So we wanted to bring that in and to show the total amount of revenue that we bring in when we resolve these loans. So in this table, we added columns for net accrued interest and total recovered revenue, the far right. We felt it was important to add the amount of contractual interest net of any advanced write-offs that is also collected on resolutions through the efforts of our special servicing team. For 2025 Q4, NPL resolution total dollars recovered, including net contractual interest, was $7.6 million or 9.8% over the UPB compared to $7.5 million or 10.8% over UPB for the fourth quarter of '24.

所以一旦我們解決了貸款問題，我們將以現金收取所有合約利息。所以我們希望把這部分數據納入考量，並展示我們在解決這些貸款問題後所獲得的總收入。因此，在該表中，我們新增了淨應計利息和總回收收入的列，即最右側的列。我們認為有必要加上透過我們特殊服務團隊的努力，在解決債務糾紛時收取的扣除任何預先核銷後的合約利息淨額。2025 年第四季度，不良貸款處置回收總額（包括淨合約利息）為 760 萬美元，比未償餘額高出 9.8%，而 2024 年第四季為 750 萬美元，比未償餘額高出 10.8%。

Now if you look at the full year '25, on this table, if you look at the full year '25, the total amount recovered on the resolutions of our NPL loans was $30 million or 9% over UPB compared to $22.3 million total recovered in 2024 or 8.8% over UPB. Page 11 shows our durable funding and liquidity position at the end of the year. Total liquidity as of December 31 was just under $117 million, comprised of about $92 million in cash and cash equivalents and another $25 million in available liquidity on unfinanced collateral. In addition, our available warehouse line capacity at December 31 was just under $600 million with a maximum line capacity of $935 million. So plenty of capacity and available capacity on the warehouse lines.

現在，如果你看一下 2025 年全年的數據，在這個表格中，如果你看一下 2025 年全年的數據，我們透過處置不良貸款收回的總金額為 3000 萬美元，比未償餘額高出 9%，而 2024 年收回的總金額為 2230 萬美元，比未償餘額高出 8.8%。第 11 頁顯示了我們年底的穩定資金和流動性狀況。截至 12 月 31 日，總流動資金略低於 1.17 億美元，其中包括約 9,200 萬美元的現金及現金等價物，以及另外 2,500 萬美元的未融資抵押品可用流動資金。此外，截至 12 月 31 日，我們可用的倉庫生產線產能略低於 6 億美元，最大生產線產能為 9.35 億美元。因此，倉庫生產線產能充足，可用產能也很多。

In Q4, we issued two securitizations, 2025-P2 and 2025-5 with a total of $646.3 million in securities issued. As Chris mentioned, in January of '26, we completed a public rating process for Velocity Financial Inc. It's our first time getting a corporate rating. We were rated by both Fitch and Moody's. And we issued $500 million in unsecured debt.

第四季度，我們發行了兩份證券化產品，分別是 2025-P2 和 2025-5，共發行證券 6.463 億美元。正如克里斯所提到的，2026 年 1 月，我們完成了 Velocity Financial Inc. 的公開評級流程。這是我們第一次獲得企業評級。我們同時獲得了惠譽和穆迪的評級。我們發行了5億美元的無擔保債券。

That's a five year term debt fixed rate at 9.375% interest due in 2031. The proceeds of the $500 million debt were used to pay off $215 million corporate securitized debt that was set to mature in 2027. So we paid that off and the balance of it was to pay down, as Chris mentioned, our shorter-term warehouse lines. And then in February of this year, we issued the first 2026 securitization, 2026-1 with $355 million in securities issued. That concludes my 2025 financial recap.

這是一筆五年期固定利率債務，利率為 9.375%，將於 2031 年到期。這筆 5 億美元債務的收益被用來償還 2027 年到期的 2.15 億美元企業證券化債務。所以我們還清了這筆款項，剩下的錢，正如克里斯所提到的，用來償還我們短期倉儲貸款。然後在今年 2 月，我們發行了第一期 2026 年證券化產品 2026-1，發行證券總額為 3.55 億美元。我的2025年財務回顧就到此結束了。

Chris, I'd like to now give the presentation back to you for an overview of Velocity's '26 outlook and key business drivers.

克里斯，現在我想把演講權交還給你，讓你概述 Velocity 2026 年的展望和關鍵業務驅動因素。

Thanks, Mark. On page 12, our markets are very healthy. We like the backdrop there. Credit is stable. We aren't reaching to hit our targets or our volumes.

謝謝你，馬克。第 12 頁顯示，我們的市場狀況非常健康。我們喜歡那裡的背景。信貸狀況穩定。我們並非為了達到目標或銷售而努力。

So we're remaining disciplined there. Capital markets are great. The securitization market, in particular, is very robust, and we've got a deep bench of investors supporting us there. And then I think from an earnings perspective, we think NIMs should remain where they are, and we think we can continue growing the portfolio. So we're very positive about the future in '26.

所以我們會繼續保持紀律。資本市場很棒。特別是證券化市場，表現非常強勁，我們擁有強大的投資者團隊來支持我們。然後，從獲利的角度來看，我們認為淨利差應該保持現狀，並且我們認為我們可以繼續擴大投資組合。所以我們對2026年的未來非常樂觀。

So with that, we'll conclude our presentation and open it up for questions.

那麼，我們的演講就到此結束，接下來將開放提問環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Steven Delaney, Citizens Capital Markets.

Steven Delaney，Citizens Capital Markets。

Congratulations on an excellent year. We do appreciate Mark's comments on Page 9 about the REO, and we may want to follow up with you on that. But obviously, an outstanding performance. Chris, I'm curious, looking ahead, one of the things -- if you think about the broader financial markets, and let's talk about the rates market. I don't know how many times you turn on CNBC and then we come about the Fed and yada yada.

恭喜你度過了精彩的一年。我們非常感謝 Mark 在第 9 頁上對 REO 的評論，我們可能會就此與您聯繫。但顯然，這是一場精彩絕倫的表演。克里斯，我很好奇，展望未來，有一件事——如果你考慮更廣泛的金融市場，讓我們來談談利率市場。我不知道你打開CNBC多少次，然後看到的都是關於美聯儲之類的新聞。

We don't know what the Fed will do, but the futures market as of a week ago when we updated our internal rate forecast is showing -- futures is showing somewhere between 200 and 325 basis points cuts in 2026. Now who knows what we get? And more importantly, the 10 year is really being kind of cranky at 4.20% and that's, what, 50, 60 basis points off the recent 12 month lows. I guess what I'm trying to say is you have performed the way you did in terms of origination volume and your clients are obviously finding deals and they can afford the current rates. Let's just say if we get some short-term rate relief and if the 10 year were to come down 50 basis points or whatever, how impactful is that to the demand from your borrowing universe for additional loans?

我們不知道聯準會會採取什麼行動，但截至一週前我們更新內部利率預測時，期貨市場顯示－期貨顯示2026年可能會降息200至325個基點。誰知道我們會得到什麼？更重要的是，10 年期公債殖利率目前為 4.20%，比最近 12 個月的低點低了 50 到 60 個基點，表現相當不穩定。我想說的是，你們在貸款發放量方面表現出色，你們的客戶顯然​​找到了合適的貸款項目，而且他們也能負擔得起目前的利率。假設我們獲得一些短期利率減免，例如 10 年期公債殖利率下降 50 個基點或其他任何幅度，這對您的借款群體對額外貸款的需求會產生多大的影響？

And just curious what the mindset is. And I'm curious if you have any material floating rate loan concentration in your portfolio where if we did get a break in the 5 to 10 year range, is there a possibility of going somebody some kind of a mini perm type of a loan structure vis-a-vis just a SOFR type floater. Thank you for commenting on that, if you would.

我只是好奇這種想法是怎麼樣的。我很好奇，您的投資組合中是否存在大量浮動利率貸款？如果 5 至 10 年期利率出現波動，是否有可能採用某種類似迷你永久利率的貸款結構，而不是 SOFR 類型的浮動利率貸款？如果您願意的話，感謝您對此發表評論。

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Thanks, Steve. I think in terms of the rate drop, probably marginally helpful to us in that it is going to lower our cost of funds and probably make our offering more attractive than it otherwise would be. But I don't see it as a huge driver of our growth.

當然可以。是的。謝謝你，史蒂夫。我認為，就利率下降而言，這可能對我們略有幫助，因為它會降低我們的資金成本，並可能使我們的產品比以往更具吸引力。但我認為它並不是我們成長的主要驅動力。

Most of the folks that come to us have some type of a need, and they're less rate sensitive and more transaction sensitive. So it's not something we spend a lot of time on. For example, I think our rate sheet moved one time in all of '25. So as you know, conforming lenders or consumer lenders are changing daily, and we changed once through the whole year. So probably not that impactful to us, but helpful.

來我們這裡的大多數人都有某種需求，他們對利率不太敏感，而對交易量更敏感。所以，我們不會在這上面花太多時間。例如，我認為我們的價格表在 2025 年全年只變動過一次。如您所知，符合標準的貸款機構或消費貸款機構每天都在變化，而我們一年只改變了一次。所以可能對我們影響不大，但還是有幫助的。

And then in terms of the second one, we do have a small portion of our portfolio, the older legacy stuff that was floating rate, but it was all floored at the start rate. So rates can really only go up, not down. So I don't think there's much of an opportunity there and/or impact to us. So probably nothing material there.

至於第二點，我們的投資組合中有一小部分是較早的浮動利率債券，但這些債券的利率都已降至起始利率。所以利率其實只會上漲，不會下降。所以我認為這對我們來說沒有太大的機會和/或影響。所以可能沒什麼實質的東西。

Well, obviously appreciate the comments and all the best for 2026 Chris.

當然，非常感謝您的評論，祝克里斯2026年一切順利。

Thanks Steve, we appreciate your support.

謝謝史蒂夫，我們非常感謝你的支持。

Don Fandetti, Wells Fargo.

唐范德蒂，富國銀行。

I was wondering if you could just give an update on the competitive dynamic of your lending markets. I know it's been very fragmented. I just want to check in and see if there have been any changes on that front. And then secondarily, obviously, private credit markets have been under pressure. Do you think there's any sort of indirect impact to your business through securitization markets or whatever? I know you've had a pretty successful debt capital raising recently, but just wanted to just check that box.

我想請您介紹一下貴國貸款市場的競爭格局。我知道它一直非常分散。我只是想了解這方面是否有任何變化。其次，很顯然，私人信貸市場也面臨壓力。您認為證券化市場或其他因素會對您的業務產生任何間接影響嗎？我知道你最近成功完成了債務融資，但我只是想確認一下。

Yeah. Don, thanks for the questions. In terms of competition, I would say we're kind of business as usual, not seeing anything really different or new there. So no real pressure there and no need to react to that. And then on the second question, I think probably maybe slightly a net positive for us, the disruption in private credit.

是的。唐，謝謝你的提問。就競爭而言，我認為一切照舊，沒有看到任何真正的變化或新情況。所以沒什麼壓力，也不需要對此做出反應。至於第二個問題，我認為私人信貸的中斷可能對我們來說略有利好。

I think we've had a number of reverse inquiries of folks that are calling us saying, could we buy your product? Could we structure something? Could we buy whole loans? Could we do something unique. And I think that's because there's demand for like that secured real estate typed back lending as opposed to some of the other private credit alternatives. So I would say maybe a slight positive for us, but I haven't seen any degradation or impact to us in a negative way.

我認為我們已經收到很多反向諮詢，有人打電話問我們是否可以購買你們的產品？我們能否組織一下活動？我們能否購買全部貸款？我們能否做一些獨特的事情？我認為這是因為市場對這種有擔保的房地產抵押貸款有需求，而不是對其他一些私人信貸替代方案的需求。所以我覺得這對我們來說可能略有好處，但我沒有看到任何負面影響或損害。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

Eric Hagen，BTIG。

Okay. Great. A couple of questions here. I mean have you fully deployed the $500 million of proceeds from the debt raise? And as it relates to that, I mean, how do you guys decide on the amount of cash and liquidity that you have available at any given time? Like is there a rule of thumb for like the minimum amount of liquidity or cash that you would hold at a given time?

好的。偉大的。這裡有幾個問題。我的意思是，你們是否已經將債務融資所得的 5 億美元全部投入使用？至於這一點，我的意思是，你們是如何決定在任何特定時間可用的現金和流動資金量的？例如，有沒有什麼經驗法則，規定在特定時間應該持有的最低流動資金或現金量是多少？

Yeah. Thanks, Eric. So yes, we fully deployed all the capital. We were able to basically pay down our entire warehouse balance immediately at the close. So it might be a very small drag on Q1, just because of all the friction with the transaction.

是的。謝謝你，埃里克。是的，我們已將所有資金全部投入使用。交易結束後，我們基本上立即償還了所有倉庫欠款。因此，由於交易過程中存在諸多摩擦，可能會對第一季業績造成很小的拖累。

But other than that, we were able to zero out our warehouse lines, which was great. And then minimum cash, we like to make sure we have at least $30 million to $50 million of cash available at all times just for safety or whatever. But right now, right after the transaction closed, we had $320 million of unpledged loans that we owned for cash. So it really gives us a lot of flexibility and access to capital whenever we need it.

但除此之外，我們成功地將倉庫生產線清零，這真是太好了。然後是最低現金儲備，我們喜歡確保始終至少有 3000 萬到 5000 萬美元的現金可用，以備不時之需。但就在交易完成後的今天，我們有 3.2 億美元的未抵押貸款，這些貸款是我們用現金持有的。因此，這確實給了我們很大的靈活性，讓我們在需要的時候隨時獲得資金。

That's great. That's really helpful. I think I want to follow up on one of the last questions around competition. I mean there's lots of speculation that capital rules are going to get adjusted for banks and that it could result in more activity from banks and mortgage lending. I mean do you not see that as being a potential catalyst for more competition?

那太棒了。這真的很有幫助。我想就最後一個關於競爭的問題再補充一點。我的意思是，目前有許多猜測認為銀行的資本規則將會進行調整，這可能會導致銀行業務和抵押貸款活動增加。我的意思是，你不認為這會成為加劇競爭的潛在催化劑嗎？

Yeah. Generally, I'd say our borrowers are coming to us because they don't want to deal with a bank or can't deal with the bank. So I don't think that -- I mean, competition is always competition. So at the margin, could it take a little bit? Maybe, but I wouldn't -- it's not something that we're worried about or concerned about in any way.

是的。一般來說，我認為我們的借款人來找我們是因為他們不想和銀行打交道，或無法和銀行打交道。所以我不認為——我的意思是，競爭永遠是競爭。所以，從邊緣來看，可能需要一點時間嗎？也許吧，但我不會——我們對此毫不擔心。

Got it. One more for me, if you don't mind.

知道了。如果你不介意的話，再給我來一個。

Yeah. Please.

是的。請。

I mean, can you compare the spreads and the returns that you expect in the single-family versus small balance commercial segment going forward?

我的意思是，您能否比較一下未來單戶住宅和小額商業貸款領域的利差和預期收益？

Yeah, yeah. So we do get a wider spread on the commercial assets than we do from the single family and we think that's the appropriate risk adjustment. We are probably 125 basis points wider on the commercial versus the single family, and we think that sort of puts us in an agnostic position, whether we lend single-family or commercial. I think that's the appropriate risk adjustment.

是啊是啊。因此，商業資產的收益比單一家庭資產的收益範圍更廣，我們認為這是適當的風險調整。我們商業貸款的利率可能比單戶住宅貸款的利率高出 125 個基點，我們認為這使我們處於中立的立場，無論我們放款的是單戶住宅貸款還是商業貸款。我認為這是合適的風險調整。

And at this time, I am not showing any further questions in the question queue. I'd like to turn the conference back over to management for any closing remarks.

目前，我不會在問題隊列中顯示任何其他問題。我想把會議交還給管理階層，請他們作總結發言。

Yeah. I just want to say thanks to everyone for joining the call. We appreciate your support, and we'll be speaking soon as Q1 comes up here fairly shortly. Thanks so much.

是的。我只想對參與電話會議的各位表示感謝。感謝您的支持，我們很快就會與您聯繫，因為第一季很快就要到了。非常感謝。

Thanks, everybody, for your participation.

謝謝大家的參與。

And thank you all. The conference has now concluded. We thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect your lines.

謝謝大家。會議已經結束。感謝各位蒞臨今天的報告會。現在您可以斷開線路了。