Velocity Financial Inc (VEL) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and welcome to Velocity Financial, Inc.'s first quarter 2025 conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event is being recorded.

大家好，歡迎參加 Velocity Financial, Inc. 2025 年第一季電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件正在被記錄。

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Chris Oltmann, Treasurer. Please go ahead.

現在我想將會議交給財務主管克里斯·奧爾特曼先生。請繼續。

Thanks, Kaley. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the discussion of Velocity's first quarter 2025 results. Joining me today are Chris Farrar, Velocity's President and Chief Executive Officer; and Mark Szczepaniak, Velocity's Chief Financial Officer. Earlier this afternoon, we released our first-quarter results, and you can find the press release and the accompanying presentation we will refer to during this call on our Investor Relations website at www.velfinance.com. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call may include forward-looking statements, which are uncertain and outside of the company's control, and actual results may differ materially.

謝謝，凱莉。大家好，感謝您今天加入我們討論 Velocity 2025 年第一季的業績。今天與我一起出席的還有 Velocity 總裁兼執行長 Chris Farrar 和 Velocity 財務長 Mark Szczepaniak。今天下午早些時候，我們發布了第一季業績。您可以在我們投資者關係網站 www.velfinance.com 上找到新聞稿以及我們將在本次電話會議上參考的隨附簡報。我想提醒大家，今天的電話會議可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述具有不確定性且不受公司控制，實際結果可能與預期有重大差異。

For a discussion of the results, please see the risk factors and other cautionary statements made in our communications with shareholders, including the risk factors disclosed in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Please also note that the content of this conference call contains time-sensitive information that is accurate only as of today, and we do not undertake any duty to update forward-looking statements. We may also refer to certain non-GAAP measures on this call. For reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures, you should refer to the earnings materials on our Investor Relations website. Finally, today's call is being recorded and will be available on the company's website later today.

有關結果的討論，請參閱我們與股東溝通中提出的風險因素和其他警告聲明，包括我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件中揭露的風險因素。另請注意，本次電話會議的內容包含時間敏感信息，這些信息僅在今天準確，我們不承擔更新前瞻性陳述的任何義務。我們也可能在本次電話會議上參考某些非公認會計準則指標。有關這些非公認會計準則指標的對賬，您應該參考我們投資者關係網站上的收益資料。最後，今天的電話會議正在錄音，並將於今天晚些時候在公司網站上發布。

And with that, I will now turn the call over to Chris Farrar.

現在，我將電話轉交給克里斯法拉爾 (Chris Farrar)。

Thanks, Chris, and we appreciate everyone joining our first-quarter earnings call. The strong momentum we experienced in 2024 carried into the first quarter of this year as we originated $640 million in new loans, an increase of 69% versus the prior year, which drove a 27% increase in net revenue and a 17% increase in core pretax earnings. Our team grew production and remained disciplined by preserving our spreads and credit standards. We continue to see increased demand for all property types with a more recent tilt towards commercial loans versus the investor 1-4 residential loans and robust margins in both products. Looking forward, our pipeline is strong and growing across the board.

謝謝，克里斯，我們感謝大家參加我們的第一季財報電話會議。我們在 2024 年經歷的強勁勢頭延續到了今年第一季度，我們發放了 6.4 億美元的新貸款，比前一年增長了 69%，推動淨收入增長了 27%，核心稅前收益增長了 17%。我們的團隊透過保持利差和信用標準來提高產量並保持紀律。我們繼續看到對所有類型房地產的需求不斷增加，最近對商業貸款的需求與投資者 1-4 住宅貸款的需求相比有所增加，並且兩種產品的利潤率都很可觀。展望未來，我們的產品線強大且全面成長。

With respect to the portfolio, we continue to realize a consistent net interest income and healthy cash flows, and our special servicing team is doing a great job of resolving delinquent assets favorably. Our real estate markets remain healthy, with plenty of dry capital ready to deploy in reasonably priced assets. From a capital markets perspective, we've been very busy this year with four successful debt transactions already completed. And we issued three new securitizations, paid down debt, and collapsed one of our re-REMICs and also sold new shares through our ATM program. Despite the recent volatility, we are very encouraged to see healthy investor demand and participation in our offerings.

就投資組合而言，我們繼續實現穩定的淨利息收入和健康的現金流，我們的特別服務團隊在解決拖欠資產方面做得很好。我們的房地產市場依然健康，有大量的乾資本可供配置在價格合理的資產中。從資本市場的角度來看，我們今年非常忙碌，已經完成了四筆成功的債務交易。我們發行了三種新的證券，償還了債務，關閉了我們的一個 re-REMIC，並且還透過我們的 ATM 計劃出售了新股。儘管近期市場波動，我們仍然很高興看到投資者對我們產品的需求和參與度良好。

We appreciate all our partners that have supported our platform for so many years. Although the markets are choppy, our team is well prepared to operate in this environment, and we believe we offer a great platform for investors to earn consistent compelling returns. I want to congratulate all Velocity team members on another fantastic quarter. And as always, we'll continue to work hard to deliver shareholders value. With that, I'll turn over to the -- today's presentation, starting on slide 3.

我們感謝多年來支持我們平台的所有合作夥伴。儘管市場波動，但我們的團隊已做好在這種環境下運營的充分準備，我們相信我們為投資者提供了一個獲得持續可觀回報的絕佳平台。我要祝賀所有 Velocity 團隊成員又度過了一個精彩的季度。像往常一樣，我們將繼續努力為股東創造價值。接下來，我將開始今天的演講，從第 3 張投影片開始。

As I mentioned, strong net income, core earnings of $0.55 a share, up from $0.51 a share a year ago. And our second best quarterly earnings in the company history, just a little bit below what we did in Q4 of last year. I mentioned the production. On a net basis, the portfolio is up 27% and non-performing loans continue to be relatively stable at 10.8%. Most importantly there, NPA resolutions again in the quarter of 102.4%, above par resolutions continue, which is great.

正如我所提到的，淨收入強勁，核心收益為每股 0.55 美元，高於一年前的每股 0.51 美元。這是我們公司史上第二好的季度收益，僅略低於去年第四季的收益。我提到了生產。以淨額計算，投資組合成長了 27%，不良貸款持續保持相對穩定，為 10.8%。最重要的是，NPA 決議在本季度再次達到 102.4%，高於標準的決議仍在繼續，這很好。

In the financing and capital section, I mentioned the first securitization we completed with a weighted average rate of 6.7%, collapsed the re-REMIC, which freed up $52.6 million of retained securities that are available to us to do with whatever we want. We issued 1.6 million common shares, just under $29 million of proceeds, and those shares were accretive to book value. In terms of our liquidity and warehouse capacity, you can see we're in great shape there.

在融資和資本部分，我提到我們以 6.7% 的加權平均利率完成的第一次證券化，解散了 re-REMIC，這釋放了 5260 萬美元的保留證券，我們可以隨意使用這些證券。我們發行了 160 萬股普通股，收益略低於 2,900 萬美元，這些股票增加了帳面價值。就我們的流動性和倉庫容量而言，您可以看到我們的狀況良好。

On page 4, one of the other securitizations we did in early April was a short term -- backed by our short-term loans, and that was another successful transaction. And the third one listed here on this page was the second deal that we did, and I highlight this one for a very important reason. It priced April 8, and that was in the heart of all of the disruption in the market. And as you can see, our weighted average rate actually was 30 bps better than our first deal in the first part of the year. So again, although there's all this volatility, we continue to see strong support from our investors, and we're very pleased with the execution we've seen so far this year.

在第 4 頁，我們在 4 月初進行的另一項證券化是短期證券化——由我們的短期貸款支持，這是另一筆成功的交易。本頁列出的第三筆交易是我們達成的第二筆交易，我強調這一點有一個非常重要的原因。其定價時間為 4 月 8 日，而那天正是市場混亂的核心。如您所見，我們的加權平均利率實際上比今年上半年的第一筆交易高出 30 個基點。因此，儘管存在所有這些波動，但我們仍然看到投資者的大力支持，並且我們對今年迄今為止的執行情況感到非常滿意。

On page 5, walk you through just the simple adjustments that we make to get to core earnings. And then on the right, we have a bridge showing the buildup in book value. And to the far right, we make an adjustment if GAAP allowed us to adjust all of our held-for-cost loans to fair value. We would be reporting an adjusted book value of $18.50 a share. That is reflective of all of the assets that are in place and on the balance sheet at 3-31. So you can see we've been getting nice growth in book value as we retain our earnings and execute on our strategy.

第 5 頁將向您介紹我們為獲得核心效益所做的簡單調整。然後在右側，我們有一座橋樑顯示帳面價值的增加。最右邊，如果 GAAP 允許我們將所有持有成本貸款調整為公允價值，我們會進行調整。我們將報告調整後的每股帳面價值為 18.50 美元。這反映了截至 3 月 31 日資產負債表上的所有現有資產。因此，您可以看到，隨著我們保留收益並執行策略，我們的帳面價值獲得了良好的成長。

And with that, I'll turn the presentation back over to Mark to continue.

說完這些，我將把演講交還給馬克繼續。

Thanks, Chris, and good afternoon, everyone. In the first quarter, as Chris mentioned, we saw continued strong production, actually setting a record for the company for a single quarter's production of approximately $640.4 million for the quarter, which is a 13.7% increase from Q4 last year. We had 1,500 loans funded in the first quarter. That was an increase of almost 18% on the loan count basis over the previous quarter. The strong production growth during Q1 included the weighted average coupon and new health investment originations continuing to be strong at 10.5%. And the weighted average coupon on our held-for investment originations for the last five quarter average trend was at 10.8%.

謝謝，克里斯，大家下午好。正如克里斯所提到的，第一季產量持續強勁，實際上創下了該公司單季產量約 6.404 億美元的紀錄，比去年第四季增長了 13.7%。我們在第一季發放了 1,500 筆貸款。與上一季相比，貸款數量增加了近 18%。第一季強勁的生產成長包括加權平均票面利率和新的健康投資發起持續保持強勁成長，達到 10.5%。我們持有的投資來源過去五個季度的加權平均票面利率平均趨勢為 10.8%。

The growth originations in Q1 also continued the tight credit levels, with the weighted average loan to value fee just being under 63%, 62.6% and the last five quarter average trend at 63.4%. So the strong Q1 production and record growth, a healthy WAC, and low LTV continues to show borrower demand for our products through all different market cycles and environments.

第一季的成長來源也延續了信貸水準的緊縮，加權平均貸款價值比略低於 63%，為 62.6%，而過去五個季度的平均趨勢為 63.4%。因此，強勁的第一季產量和創紀錄的成長、健康的 WAC 和低 LTV 繼續表明借款人對我們的產品在不同的市場週期和環境下都有需求。

If we go to page 7. As a result of the continued growth in production, page 7 shows the growth in Q1 for our overall loan portfolio at the end of the quarter. Total loan portfolio as of March 31 was just under $5.5 billion in UPB, and that's a 7.8% increase from year-end 2024 and a 27.3% increase year over year.

如果我們翻到第 7 頁。由於產量持續成長，第 7 頁顯示了本季末我們整體貸款組合在第一季的成長情況。截至 3 月 31 日，UPB 的總貸款組合略低於 55 億美元，比 2024 年底成長 7.8%，年增 27.3%。

This weighted average coupon in portfolio at the end of the quarter was just under 9.6%, at 9.59%, which is 6 basis points increase from the WAC at the end of the year and just a [2 basis point] increase from the same time first quarter last year. The total portfolio weighted average loan-to-value remained consistently low at 66.1% at the end of the quarter.

本季末投資組合的加權平均票面利率略低於 9.6%，為 9.59%，比年底的加權平均票面利率高出 6 個基點，比去年第一季同期僅高出 [2 個基點]。截至本季末，總投資組合加權平均貸款價值比一直維持在 66.1% 的低點。

Going to Page 8. Our Q1 portfolio NIM was 3.35%, representing more normalized NIMs compared to Q4 of '24. Q4 of 2024, it was a little bit higher NIM due to cash interest received on non-performing loans.

轉到第 8 頁。我們第一季的投資組合淨利息收益率 (NIM) 為 3.35%，與 24 年第四季相比，淨利息收益率 (NIM) 更加正常化。2024 年第四季度，由於收到不良貸款的現金利息，淨利差略高。

We saw the cash interest on non-performing loans consistently (inaudible) lumpy, and that can cause some spikes in the NIM. Our Q1 NIM was consistent on a year-over-year basis. Our portfolio yield for Q1 of this year decreased by 23 basis points quarter over quarter, again, due to the high cash non-performing loan interest received in Q4, but an increase year over year by 40 basis points, while our cost of funds increased by 9 quarter over quarter and increased by 30 basis points year over year.

我們發現不良貸款的現金利息持續（聽不清楚）波動，這可能會導致淨利息收益率 (NIM) 出現飆升。我們第一季的淨利差與去年同期相比保持一致。我們今年第一季的投資組合收益率環比下降了 23 個基點，同樣是由於第四季度收到的現金不良貸款利息較高所致，但同比增加了 40 個基點，而我們的資金成本環比增加了 9 個，同比增加了 30 個基點。

On page 9, our non-performing loan rate at the end of Q1, as Chris mentioned, was 10.8%. That's been relatively flat. It was 10.7% at the end of 2024, and it's been consistent for the last five quarters at an average of about 10.5%. We continue to see strong collection efforts by our special servicing department that resulted in favorable gain resolutions of our NPA assets -- by NPA assets with our NPL loans, as well as the REO assets.

第 9 頁，正如 Chris 所提到的，我們第一季末的不良貸款率為 10.8%。這一直相對平穩。2024 年底這一比例為 10.7%，過去五個季度的平均值一直維持在 10.5% 左右。我們繼續看到我們的特殊服務部門大力進行催收工作，從而為我們的不良資產（透過不良資產與我們的不良貸款以及 REO 資產）帶來了有利的收益解決。

The table on page 10 shows the continued positive results of our in-house NPA resolution efforts. Our Q1 NPA resolution gains were $1.9 million or 2.4% of the $76.4 million in overall UPB resolved. And on a trend basis, we've been averaging about a 3.3% quarterly NPA resolution gain over the last five quarters.

第 10 頁的表格顯示了我們內部 NPA 解決工作持續取得的正面成果。我們第一季的 NPA 解決收益為 190 萬美元，佔已解決 UPB 總額 7,640 萬美元的 2.4%。從趨勢來看，過去五個季度，我們平均每季的不良資產解決率成長約 3.3%。

Page 11 presents on the left-hand side, our CECL loan loss reserve and on the right-hand side, our net loan charge-off gain loss on REO activity. The CECL reserve at the end of the quarter was $5 million or 22 basis points of our outstanding amortized cost health investment portfolio.

第 11 頁左側顯示的是我們的 CECL 貸款損失準備金，右邊顯示的是我們的 REO 活動淨貸款沖銷損益。本季末的 CECL 儲備為 500 萬美元，占我們未償還攤銷成本健康投資組合的 22 個基點。

The CECL reserve at the end of Q1 was slightly above our expected normal range of 15 to 20 basis points, and that is due to the latest national economic forecast. CECL requires you to do a macroeconomic forecast using a modeling system and the outside model that we use, given all the kind of uncertainty and the movement around in Q1 in the markets. It just had a little more severe step on the macroeconomic forecast. It's only 2 basis points. So instead of 20 basis points at year-end, it's 22 basis points. The CECL loan loss reserve number does not include our loans being carried at fair value, just amortized costs. And then in the table to the right of this page shows our net gain loss from both loan charge-offs and REO-related activities during the quarter. And for Q1, the gain on REO activities offset the net loan charge-offs.

第一季末的 CECL 準備金略高於我們預期的 15 至 20 個基點的正常範圍，這是由於最新的國家經濟預測。CECL 要求您使用建模系統和我們使用的外部模型進行宏觀經濟預測，考慮到市場在第一季出現的各種不確定性和變動。只是對宏觀經濟預測的影響稍微嚴厲一些。僅2個基點。因此，年底的利率不是 20 個基點，而是 22 個基點。CECL 貸款損失準備金數字不包括以公允價值計價的貸款，僅包括攤銷成本。然後，本頁右側的表格顯示了本季我們因貸款沖銷和 REO 相關活動而產生的淨收益損失。對於第一季而言，REO 活動的收益抵銷了淨貸款沖銷。

Page 12 shows our durable funding and liquidity position at the end of the quarter. Total liquidity as of March 31 was $75.6 million that is comprised of $51.7 million in cash and cash equivalents and another $23.9 million in available liquidity on our unfinanced collateral. In addition, the available warehouse line capacity at the end of the quarter was $238 million, with the maximum line capacity of $810 million. As Chris mentioned previously, in Q1, we issued our first securitization of 2025 for $342.8 million in securities issued. And then subsequent to first quarter, in April, we issued our second long-term securitization, 2025-2 and we also issued a short-term securitization, 2025-RTL-1 as the securitization of our short-term loans.

第 12 頁顯示了我們本季末的持久資金和流動性狀況。截至 3 月 31 日的總流動資金為 7,560 萬美元，其中包括 5,170 萬美元的現金和現金等價物，以及 2,390 萬美元的未融資抵押品可用流動資金。此外，本季末可用的倉庫線路容量為 2.38 億美元，最大線路容量為 8.1 億美元。正如克里斯之前提到的，在第一季度，我們發行了 2025 年第一筆證券化產品，發行金額為 3.428 億美元。在第一季之後，即 4 月份，我們發行了第二筆長期證券化產品 2025-2，同時也發行了短期證券化產品 2025-RTL-1，作為我們短期貸款的證券化產品。

And remember the very first short-term securitization we ever did was in 2023. So in 2025, we simultaneously collapsed the 2023-RTL-1 short-term securitization and issued the 2025-RTL-1 securitization. And the RTL-1 securitization, I only want to add about that is it includes $59 million in UPB from the old 2023 securitization that was freed up when it was collapsed and it will go to the RTL-1 for 2025.

請記住，我們進行的第一次短期證券化是在 2023 年。因此，在 2025 年，我們同時收緊了 2023-RTL-1 短期證券化，並發行了 2025-RTL-1 證券化。至於 RTL-1 證券化，我只想補充一點，它包括來自舊的 2023 年證券化中的 5900 萬美元 UPB，這筆資金在 RTL-1 倒閉時被釋放出來，並將在 2025 年轉入 RTL-1。

That concludes my first-quarter financial recap. I'll turn the presentation back to Chris now for an overview of our '25 outlook.

這是我對第一季財務狀況的回顧。現在我將把演講交還給克里斯，讓他概述我們的 25 年展望。

Thank you, Mark. I think, from a market perspective, you can see that we're seeing very strong, healthy demand. Real estate markets are functioning well. So we feel good there. Our credit perspective, still seeing very good positive resolutions.

謝謝你，馬克。我認為，從市場角度來看，我們看到了非常強大、健康的需求。房地產市場運作良好。所以我們在那裡感覺很好。我們的信用觀點仍然看到非常好的積極解決方案。

I think, remains to be seen what happens with all of the tariff talk and those types of things. But from our perspective, we don't think it's going to have an impact on our business materially. In terms of capital, we've been very active there, and markets are supportive of us. In terms of earnings, we feel very good about the future and the rest of this year. And I'm excited to continue on our path.

我認為，有關關稅的討論和諸如此類的事情最終會如何發展還有待觀察。但從我們的角度來看，我們認為這不會對我們的業務產生實質影響。在資本方面，我們在那裡非常活躍，市場也支持我們。就獲利而言，我們對未來以及今年剩餘時間的表現非常樂觀。我很高興能繼續我們的道路。

So with that, that concludes our prepared remarks, and we'll open it up for questions.

我們的準備好的演講到此結束，我們將開始回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) Don Fandetti, Wells Fargo.

（操作員指示）富國銀行的唐‧范德蒂 (Don Fandetti)。

Just wanted to clarify, it sounds like the NIM is more normalized now. So would you think Q2 would be sort of in the same ZIP code as Q1?

只是想澄清一下，聽起來 NIM 現在變得更加規範化了。那麼您是否認為 Q2 的郵遞區號與 Q1 的郵遞區號相同？

Don, I think that's right. I mean we generally target around 3.5%. So 3.35% to 3.50% right in there is what we would say is pretty normal.

唐，我認為這是對的。我的意思是我們通常的目標是 3.5% 左右。因此，我們認為 3.35% 到 3.50% 是相當正常的。

Got it. And then also on new origination yields. They've been steady, ticked down a little bit. Are you thinking that we hold in this range as we go through 2025?

知道了。然後也關注新起源的收益。它們一直很穩定，只是略有下降。您是否認為到 2025 年我們會保持在這個範圍內？

Yeah, I think that's right. We took coupons down a little bit to reflect the underlying reduction in our cost to borrow. So we're maintaining our spreads. That's what drove the coupon down. But I think it all depends on where sort of three- to four-year treasury -- we price off of three- to four-year interpolated rates.

是的，我認為是這樣。我們稍微降低了息票利率，以反映借貸成本的潛在降低。因此我們維持利差。這就是導致優惠券價格下降的原因。但我認為這完全取決於三至四年期國債的利率——我們根據三至四年期插值利率進行定價。

So wherever those rates go, we'll price our spread accordingly. But I think our expectation is that they should be fairly stable with the possibility, I guess, of going down later in the year if the Fed continues to cut, which remains to be seen.

因此，無論利率如何變化，我們都會相應地定價利差。但我認為，我們的預期是，它們應該相當穩定，如果聯準會繼續降息，我猜今年晚些時候可能會下降，但這還有待觀察。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

Sure.

當然。

Eric Hagen, BTIG.

BTIG 的 Eric Hagen。

Thanks. You noted some more commercial demand, I think, in your opening remarks. We know that transaction volume for the market is down, right? So are you guys seeing more demand because borrowers are being shut out of other channels? And on maybe like a related note, is there a level that you expect for overall origination volume through, call it, the end of the year? And then maybe like at this point, what would maybe catalyze your origination volume to be meaningfully higher than whatever you're currently projecting?

謝謝。我認為，您在開場白中提到了更多的商業需求。我們知道市場交易量下降了，對嗎？那麼，你們是否看到需求增加，因為借款人被排除在其他管道之外？或許與此相關的是，您是否預期到年底整體發起量會達到一個水準？那麼也許就像在這一點上，什麼可能會促使您的發起量明顯高於您目前預測的水平？

Eric, thanks for the questions there. Yeah, in terms of commercial aspect, we, just 1.5 years ago, started a small commercial division that focuses just purely in commercial type lending. And so I think the vast driver there has just been their ramp-up in their growth in production. So it's less, I think, of a demand story and more of us opening up a new channel. That channel focuses almost exclusively on owner-occupied commercial real estate. And so I think that's the driver there.

艾瑞克，謝謝你的提問。是的，就商業方面而言，就在一年半前，我們成立了一個小型商業部門，專注於商業類型的貸款。因此，我認為其主要驅動力就是產量的快速成長。因此，我認為，這並不是需求問題，而更多的是我們開闢了一個新的管道。該頻道幾乎只專注於自住商業房地產。所以我認為這就是驅動因素。

Over the years, we've seen it's modulating back and forth between the 1-4 and the small commercial. We're comfortable with both and it sort of ebbs and flows, but this one is more tied to our direct effort. In terms of run rate production, we think this current pace is sustainable. So I think that's a good run rate, if you want to project out for the rest of the year. And something that would meaningfully drive volumes significantly higher, I think it would only be probably just a very large drop in rates back to kind of like what we saw during the COVID levels. I don't expect that, and I don't think that is in the cards. But if it were to happen, that would probably be the single largest boost we could get.

多年來，我們看到它在 1-4 和小型商業之間來回調整。我們對兩者都很滿意，雖然它們有起有落，但這個更依賴我們的直接努力。就生產運行率而言，我們認為目前的速度是可持續的。因此，如果您想預測今年剩餘時間的表現，我認為這是一個很好的運行率。我認為，如果某種因素能夠顯著推動交易量大幅上升，那麼很可能只是利率大幅下降，回到我們在 COVID 期間看到的水平。我並不期望如此，而且我也不認為這樣的事情會發生。但如果真的發生了，那可能就是我們能獲得的最大動力。

Okay. That's good color. I appreciate that. Can you say what you did with the capital that you raised? Like was it to delever a little bit? And then when you come in to maybe raise additional capital from here, is there an expectation for what you plan to maybe do with that capital?

好的。這顏色真好。我很感激。你能說說你如何使用籌集到的資金嗎？是不是要稍微去槓桿？那麼，當您從這裡籌集額外資金時，您是否對計劃如何使用這些資金有什麼期望？

Yeah. So we just use it to continue to make more loans. I think any capital that we do raise will be solely for the purpose of growing the portfolio. We take, as you know, all of our earnings and retain them and put them back in. So that marginal return on capital is very attractive, and we're seeing very high ROEs there.

是的。所以我們只是用它來繼續發放更多貸款。我認為我們籌集的任何資金都僅用於擴大投資組合。如您所知，我們將所有收益保留並重新投入使用。因此，資本邊際回報率非常有吸引力，而且我們看到的淨資產收益率非常高。

So we think the smartest thing to do is allocate capital back to new assets. And we have a number of levers we can pull there, and we'll just continue to support the growth.

因此我們認為最明智的做法是將資本重新分配到新資產。我們可以採取多種措施，繼續支持經濟成長。

Yes. That's good to hear. Sorry if this is a naive question, but when you look at gain on the REO sales, does that include the back interest from like the borrower initially defaulted? Or is it just a gain relative to the UPB of your cost basis?

是的。聽到這個消息真好。抱歉，這是一個幼稚的問題，但是當您查看 REO 銷售收益時，是否包括借款人最初違約所產生的利息？或者它只是相對於成本基礎的 UPB 的收益？

You want to take that, Mark?

馬克，你想接受這個嗎？

Yeah. When we look at the gain on the REO, we're showing those resolution tables, and all that will just be the gain not only the back interest to keep that kind of REO that back interest has already been taken out of the financials. It's (inaudible) reverse, right? So when the loan goes non-performing, we take all the accrued interest at that point, and we reverse it and back it out. So that interest kind of hits, so to speak, as it has already been taken out, so probably in every quarterly interest. So then we show the REO being disclosed in any gain over and above anything else we already back on.

是的。當我們查看 REO 的收益時，我們會顯示那些決議表，而所有這些都只是收益，而不僅僅是保留那種 REO 的利息，這種利息已經從財務中扣除了。這是（聽不清楚）相反的，對嗎？因此，當貸款變成不良貸款時，我們會收取當時所有應計利息，然後將其逆轉並撤回。因此，可以說，這種利息已經產生了，因為它已經被取出，所以可能在每個季度的利息中都會產生。因此，我們展示了 REO 披露的任何收益，超過了我們已經支持的任何其他收益。

Yeah. And I would add, the same thing happens on the gain on transfer when that loan first transfers to REO, same concept.

是的。我想補充一點，當貸款首次轉移到 REO 時，轉移收益也會發生同樣的事情，概念相同。

Once the loan stops being a loan that the previous interest on that loan that was received has already been backed out and is reflected in the financials by reducing earnings.

一旦貸款不再是貸款，那麼先前收到的貸款利息就已被收回，並透過減少收益反映在財務中。

Got you. Okay. Very helpful. Thank you, guys.

明白了。好的。非常有幫助。謝謝你們。

Thank you, Eric.

謝謝你，埃里克。

Steve Delaney, Citizens JMP.

史蒂夫·德萊尼 (Steve Delaney)，公民 JMP。

Thanks. Congrats to a great start to 2025. Chris Farrar, what is your current total headcount in terms of employees?

謝謝。恭喜 2025 年有一個好的開始。克里斯·法拉爾，您目前的員工總數是多少？

We're 323.

我們是 323。

323, okay. And how many office locations do you have folks sitting in around the country?

323，好的。你們的員工在全國有多少個辦公地點工作？

So we have five office locations. We kind of have a hybrid model. So how many folks are sitting in those office locations is a wildcard, Steve. (laugher)

所以我們有五個辦公地點。我們有一種混合模型。那麼，有多少人坐在這些辦公地點是一個未知數，史蒂夫。（笑聲）

You can't see who's there anyway.

無論如何，你都看不到誰在那裡。

Right.

正確的。

It'd be kind of a virtual business, I know. But I was trying to get a sense for the footprint. And as you think about growth versus execution, I mean, a great -- you're executing. You're knocking the ball out of park, I mean, in terms of the start to 2025. So as you talk with the Board, I guess I'm trying to get a picture, Chris, for the three, five years from now. Where do you want the company to be other than having been very profitable and everybody has done it? Is there a vision out there for, say, five years for where you'd like to take the company?

我知道，這是一種虛擬業務。但我試著去了解足跡。當您考慮成長與執行時，我的意思是，您正在執行。我的意思是，從 2025 年開始來看，你已經取得了巨大成功。因此，克里斯，當你與董事會交談時，我想我正在嘗試了解未來三至五年的情況。除了獲利能力強（大家都這麼做）之外，您還希望公司達到什麼目標？您是否有一個願景，比如說，五年後您希望公司走向何方？

Yeah. I mean, I think we'd like to see the portfolio at $10 billion in five years. So we expect to continue to grow. That will require headcount. We are generally concentrated sort of East Coast and West Coast, probably add -- maybe we might potentially add some space in the Midwest or Texas area, something like that, maybe, trying to use a lot of technology to scale the business without adding too much headcount. I mean, you always have to add some headcount, but we've been very successful if you look at our sort of average balance funded per loan officer or account executive. That balance is going up.

是的。我的意思是，我想我們希望看到投資組合在五年內達到 100 億美元。因此我們期望繼續增長。這就需要人員編制。我們的業務主要集中在東海岸和西海岸，也許我們可能會在中西部或德克薩斯地區增加一些空間，諸如此類，也許我們會嘗試使用大量技術來擴大業務規模，而無需增加太多員工。我的意思是，你總是需要增加一些員工，但如果你看看我們每個貸款官員或客戶經理的平均資金餘額，我們就非常成功了。該餘額正在上升。

So we're making our existing people more productive, which is great because you don't have to hire headcount for that. But you do have to support it on the back end with the credit and support functions. So I would hope that we would add maybe a couple of hundred people over five years, but we're going to really try to implement as much technology as we can to minimize that.

因此，我們正在提高現有員工的生產力，這很好，因為你不必為此僱用員工。但您確實必須在後端透過信用和支援功能來支援它。因此，我希望我們能在五年內增加幾百名員工，但我們會盡力採用盡可能多的技術來盡量減少這個數字。

Sure. And you do all your servicing in-house, don't you?

當然。你們所有的服務都是在公司內部進行的，不是嗎？

So we do all of our special servicing in-house. The primary servicing is outsourced to bill collection, the payments, the insurance, and the administration. All of that is outsourced. We just manage delinquent assets because we own that risk, and we think we're the best people to resolve those risks.

因此，我們所有的特殊服務均在公司內部完成。主要服務外包給帳單收集、付款、保險和管理。所有這些都是外包的。我們只管理拖欠資產，因為我們承擔這種風險，而且我們認為我們是解決這些風險的最佳人選。

Okay. Great. Well, look, thanks for those comments. I just want to get kind of a picture what the company looks like (inaudible) where you are planning to go with that. I appreciate it, Chris. Thanks.

好的。偉大的。好吧，謝謝你的評論。我只是想大致了解一下公司是什麼樣的（聽不清楚）以及您計劃如何發展。我很感激，克里斯。謝謝。

Yeah, thank you, Steve. Take care.

是的，謝謝你，史蒂夫。小心。

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Farrar for any closing remarks.

我們的問答環節到此結束。我想將會議交還給法拉爾先生，請他作最後發言。

Thanks again, everyone, for joining the call, and we appreciate your support. We'll talk to you again after the second quarter. Thank you.

再次感謝大家參加電話會議，我們感謝您的支持。我們將在第二季結束後再次與您交談。謝謝。

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

會議現已結束。感謝您參加今天的演講。您現在可以斷開連線。