Veritex Holdings Inc (VBTX) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Veritex Holdings First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event will be recorded. I will now turn the conference over to Will Holford with Veritex.

早上好，歡迎參加 Veritex Holdings 2025 年第一季財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件將被記錄。現在我將會議交給 Veritex 的 Will Holford。

Thank you. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that this presentation may include forward-looking statements, and those statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual and anticipated results to differ. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly revise any forward-looking statement. If you're logged into our webcast, please refer to our slide presentation, including our safe harbor statement beginning on slide 2.

謝謝。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，本簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和預期結果有所不同。該公司不承擔公開修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。如果您登入了我們的網路廣播，請參閱我們的幻燈片演示，包括從幻燈片 2 開始的安全港聲明。

For those on the phone, please note that the safe harbor statement and presentation are available on our website, veritexbank.com. All comments made today are subject to that safe harbor statement. Some financial metrics discussed will be on a non-GAAP basis, which management believes better reflects the underlying core operating performance of the business.

對於透過電話聯繫的人士，請注意，安全港聲明和簡報可在我們的網站 veritexbank.com 上查閱。今天發表的所有評論均以該安全港聲明為準。一些討論的財務指標將以非 GAAP 為基礎，管理層認為這能更好地反映業務的基本核心營運績效。

Please see the reconciliation of all discussed non-GAAP measures in our filed 8-K earnings release. Joining me today are Malcolm Holland, our Chairman and CEO; Terry Earley, our Chief Financial Officer; and Curtis Anderson, our Chief Credit Officer. I'll now turn the call over to Malcolm.

請參閱我們提交的 8-K 收益報告中討論的所有非 GAAP 指標的對帳表。今天與我一起出席的還有我們的董事長兼首席執行官馬爾科姆·霍蘭德 (Malcolm Holland)、我們的首席財務官特里·厄爾利 (Terry Earley) 和我們的首席信貸官柯蒂斯·安德森 (Curtis Anderson)。我現在將電話轉給馬爾科姆。

Thank you, Will. Good morning, and welcome to our first quarter earnings call. For the quarter, we reported net operating profit of $29 million or $0.54 per share. Pretax pre-provision earnings were $43.4 million or 1.41%. Overall, Veritex had a very good quarter. Our balance sheet remains in a very strong position with capital continuing to grow. Our continued pursuit to achieve ROAA exceeding 1% in the back half of the year is very much in focus and realistic.

謝謝你，威爾。早上好，歡迎參加我們的第一季財報電話會議。本季度，我們報告的淨營業利潤為 2,900 萬美元，即每股 0.54 美元。稅前撥備前收益為 4,340 萬美元，即 1.41%。總體而言，Veritex 本季表現非常好。我們的資產負債表依然保持強勁，資本持續成長。我們繼續追求在下半年實現 ROAA 超過 1% 的目標，這是非常有重點且現實的。

Our challenge, much like the rest of the industry remains disciplined loan growth. For the quarter, we saw a decrease in loans of $125 million or 5% annualized, while our average balances were down $135 million over Q4. Payoffs over the last four quarters were $1.5 billion, while payoffs for the four quarters previous were $1.3 billion, a 17% increase year-over-year. Although these payoffs continue to put pressure on our loan totals, it validates the creditworthiness of our loan book.

與其他行業一樣，我們面臨的挑戰仍然是保持貸款的規範成長。本季度，我們的貸款減少了 1.25 億美元，年化減少了 5%，而我們的平均餘額比第四季度減少了 1.35 億美元。過去四個季度的支出為 15 億美元，而再前四個季度的支出為 13 億美元，較去年同期成長 17%。儘管這些還款繼續對我們的貸款總額造成壓力，但它驗證了我們貸款帳簿的信譽。

Despite loan totals lagging, we're very encouraged by our bank-wide loan production. For Q1, we had $750 million in gross production, although only 31% or $237 million of that production was funded. The last four quarters, our production exceeded $2.8 billion, while the fourth quarter previous production equaled $1.2 billion, a 130% increase year-over-year. That bodes well for our future loan growth over the next several years.

儘管貸款總額滯後，但我們對全行的貸款產量感到非常鼓舞。第一季度，我們的總產值達到 7.5 億美元，但其中只有 31% 或 2.37 億美元獲得了資金支持。過去四個季度，我們的產值超過 28 億美元，而上一季第四季的產值達到 12 億美元，年增 130%。這預示著我們未來幾年的貸款成長將十分良好。

From a deposit growth standpoint, we had another solid quarter, bringing in lower-priced relationship dollars and moving out higher-priced non-relationship dollars. For the quarter, we moved out over $440 million in wholesale funding, continued great work by the team to move our deposit costs down. More from Terry and Will in a moment on that topic. Credit continues to remain stable with positive trends in almost all categories with lots of work being accomplished by the team below the surface. I'll now turn the call over to Curtis for his credit comment.

從存款成長的角度來看，我們又度過了一個穩健的季度，帶來了價格較低的關係資金，並流出了價格較高的非關係資金。本季度，我們轉移了超過 4.4 億美元的批發融資，團隊繼續努力降低存款成本。稍後，Terry 和 Will 將就該主題發表更多演講。信貸持續保持穩定，幾乎所有類別都呈現正面趨勢，幕後團隊完成了大量工作。現在我將把電話轉給柯蒂斯，請他發表信用評論。

Thank you, Malcolm. We continue to make progress in managing credit risk as reflected in our first quarter results. Our relationship teams are focused on risk identification and managing cycle times to resolution. In the quarter, we realized a net decrease in past dues and criticized loans. Our charge-offs are below forecast and NPAs reflect our focus on moving names to final resolution.

謝謝你，馬爾科姆。正如第一季的業績所反映的，我們在管理信用風險方面繼續取得進展。我們的關係團隊專注於風險識別和管理解決週期時間。本季度，我們實現了逾期貸款和不良貸款的淨減少。我們的沖銷額低於預期，不良資產反映了我們對將名稱轉至最終解決方案的關注。

Moving to page 5. Nonaccruals increased $17 million from year-end as we took targeted action on select names to bring them to final resolution. Accordingly, nonperforming assets increased from $79 million at year-end to $97 million at the end of the first quarter. The increase was primarily from two loans representing retail and office exposures. We expect resolution on a majority of our current nonaccrual exposure by early third quarter.

移至第 5 頁。由於我們針對特定名稱採取了有針對性的行動以最終解決這些問題，未計提費用較年底增加了 1700 萬美元。因此，不良資產從年底的 7,900 萬美元增加到第一季末的 9,700 萬美元。成長主要來自兩筆代表零售和辦公室風險的貸款。我們預計到第三季初，我們目前大部分的非應計風險敞口將得到解決。

Property and sales agreements are in place with buyers on a number of these assets. Past due loans reflect strong oversight and management by the team and declined from $31 million at year-end to $11 million at the end of the first quarter. Net charge-offs totaled $4 million for the quarter, primarily reflecting loss exposure on commercial office and retail real estate loans with final resolution. Our 2025 full year charge-off forecast of 20 basis points has not changed.

我們已經與買家就其中一些資產簽訂了財產和銷售協議。逾期貸款體現了團隊強有力的監督和管理，從年底的 3,100 萬美元下降到第一季末的 1,100 萬美元。本季淨沖銷總額為 400 萬美元，主要反映了最終解決的商業辦公室和零售房地產貸款的損失風險。我們對 2025 年全年 20 個基點的沖銷預測沒有改變。

Moving to page 6. Criticized assets were down 4.3% or $18 million from year-end and down 26% or $135 million from the first quarter in 2024. CRE criticized totals continue to show meaningful reduction. In summary, we're pleased with the risk management discipline of our relationship teams. As Malcolm noted, their focus in partnership with special assets delivers results that are not fully evident in the top line numbers. These results include criticized payoffs and paydowns, restructurings resulting in positive grade changes and early risk identification that ultimately mitigates further downgrade and loss. We are committed to this continued focus. I'll now turn the call over to Terry.

移至第 6 頁。受批評的資產較年底下降 4.3% 或 1,800 萬美元，較 2024 年第一季下降 26% 或 1.35 億美元。CRE 批評總數繼續呈現顯著減少。總而言之，我們對我們的關係團隊的風險管理紀律感到滿意。正如馬爾科姆所指出的，他們專注於與特殊資產合作，但其成果並未完全體現在營收數字中。這些結果包括受到批評的支付和償還、導致積極等級變化的重組以及最終減輕進一步降級和損失的早期風險識別。我們致力於持續關注這一點。我現在將電話轉給特里。

Thank you, Curtis. Starting on page 7. When I look at the results since the end of '22, I'm encouraged. The balance sheet is in a good place. Liquidity is strong. Reliance on wholesale funding is down under 14%. Capital and reserves are up and CRE concentration levels are right where we want them, just below the regulatory guidelines.

謝謝你，柯蒂斯。從第 7 頁開始。當我看到 22 年底以來的結果時，我感到很受鼓舞。資產負債表狀況良好。流動性強勁。對批發融資的依賴度已降至14%以下。資本和儲備都在增加，而企業房地產集中度也達到了我們想要的水平，略低於監管準則。

Moving to page 8. Capital ratios held relatively steady quarter-over-quarter, except for the total capital ratio. The decline in total capital is a function of a $75 million tranche of sub debt that was repaid in the middle of the quarter after the rate converted to SOFR plus 347 basis points. Over the last two years, a significant contributor to the expansion in the capital ratios has been a $700 million decline in risk-weighted assets.

翻到第 8 頁。除總資本比率外，資本比率比上季保持相對穩定。總資本的下降是由於一筆 7,500 萬美元的次級債務，該債務在利率轉換為 SOFR 加 347 個基點後於本季度中期償還。過去兩年，資本充足率擴張的一個重要原因是風險加權資產減少了7億美元。

Tangible book value per share is $22.33, up from $21.61 at year-end and a 13.8% increase on a year-over-year basis, including the dividends we've paid. It's worth noting since Veritex went public in 2014, its compounded tangible book value per share at a rate of 11.5%, including the dividends have been paid to shareholders. Considering our growth outlook, organic capital generation and risk profile, the bank has increased its quarterly dividend by 10% to $0.22 per share per quarter.

每股有形帳面價值為 22.33 美元，高於年底的 21.61 美元，年增 13.8%，其中包括我們支付的股息。值得注意的是，自2014年Veritex上市以來，其每股有形帳面價值的複合成長率為11.5%，其中包括已支付給股東的股利。考慮到我們的成長前景、有機資本產生和風險狀況，該銀行已將季度股息提高 10% 至每股 0.22 美元。

Finally, Veritex repurchased 377,000 shares during the quarter. The tangible book value dilution was minimal, and the earn-back is just over two years. We have $37 million remaining on the authorization, which at the current stock price is sufficient to repurchase just over 3% of the company. We intend to be opportunistic in its use.

最後，Veritex 在本季回購了 377,000 股。有形帳面價值稀釋很小，獲利週期僅兩年多一點。我們的授權金額還剩下 3,700 萬美元，以目前的股價，足以回購公司 3% 以上的股份。我們打算抓住機會使用它。

Moving to page 9. The allowance now sits at 119 basis points, up significantly in the last eight quarters. Additionally, when you exclude the mortgage warehouse, the ACL coverage rises to 127 basis points. Our general reserves comprised 95% of the total allowance. We continue to use conservative economic assumptions in the CECL modeling with 65% of the weighting on downside scenarios.

翻到第 9 頁。目前，該津貼為 119 個基點，在過去八個季度中大幅上升。此外，當您排除抵押倉庫時，ACL 覆蓋率將上升至 127 個基點。我們的一般儲備佔總儲備的 95%。我們繼續在 CECL 模型中使用保守的經濟假設，其中 65% 的權重放在下行情境上。

In Q1, we shifted the weighting toward the most pessimistic scenario. Part of the weighting we shifted towards the most pessimistic scenario. This seems reasonable considering all the economic uncertainty from tariffs, interest rates, reduction in government spending, I could go on and on. Bottom line, the combination of the factors and the economic forecast weighting gives Veritex a very conservative allowance result.

在第一季度，我們將權重轉向了最悲觀的情景。我們將部分權重轉向最悲觀的情況。考慮到關稅、利率、政府支出削減等帶來的所有經濟不確定性，這似乎是合理的，我可以繼續說下去。歸根結底，各種因素和經濟預測權重的結合使得 Veritex 的配額結果非常保守。

Moving to page 10. As Malcolm said, total loans declined 1.3% during Q1 and 3% on a year-over-year basis. We made significant progress in reducing our CRE and ADC concentrations and ended the quarter at 29.7% and 85%, respectively. The significant decline during Q1 in CRE and ADC can be seen in the top right graph. As shown in the bottom right, loan production has increased by $1.6 billion from the four quarters ending Q1 '24 to the four quarters ending Q1 '25. A meaningful part of the increased production in the ADC area.

翻到第 10 頁。正如馬爾科姆所說，第一季貸款總額下降了 1.3%，年減了 3%。我們在降低 CRE 和 ADC 濃度方面取得了重大進展，本季末的 CRE 和 ADC 濃度分別達到 29.7% 和 85%。從右上圖可以看出，第一季 CRE 和 ADC 出現了顯著下降。如右下角所示，從截至 2024 年第一季的四個季度到截至 2025 年第一季的四個季度，貸款額增加了 16 億美元。這是 ADC 區域產量增加的重要部分。

Funding on these two loans lags for several quarters as the borrowers' equity goes into the projects first. Loan growth will remain muted in 2025 due to higher-than-normal payoffs, but this production over the last several quarters will translate into loan growth as we move into 2026 and beyond.

由於借款人的股權首先投入到專案中，這兩筆貸款的融資落後了幾個季度。由於還款額高於正常水平，2025 年的貸款成長將保持低迷，但隨著我們進入 2026 年及以後，過去幾季的貸款成長將轉化為貸款成長。

On slide 11, provides some details on the term CRE and ADC portfolios by asset class, including what is out of state. Also shown is the breakdown of our out-of-state loan portfolio, including the significant impact of our national businesses and mortgage. The true percentage of the out-of-state portfolio was only 10.7%, and this is predominantly where we have followed Texas real estate clients to other geographies.

幻燈片 11 提供了按資產類別劃分的 CRE 和 ADC 投資組合的一些詳細信息，包括州外資產。也顯示了我們州外貸款組合的細目，包括我們國家業務和抵押貸款的重大影響。州外投資組合的真實百分比僅為 10.7%，這主要是因為我們跟隨德州的房地產客戶轉移到了其他地區。

On to page 12. Our strong deposit growth and low loan growth has allowed Veritex to reduce its loan-to-deposit ratio from 104% to 89% over the last two-plus years. We intend to remain below 90% going forward. Please note, the loan-to-deposit ratio would be 82.8% if you exclude mortgage warehouse. Deposit growth has also allowed us to reduce our wholesale funding reliance to 13.7%, and it was over 24% the same period the last couple of years.

翻到第 12 頁。強勁的存款成長和較低的貸款成長使得 Veritex 在過去兩年多的時間內將其貸款與存款比率從 104% 降低到 89%。我們打算今後將這一比例保持在 90% 以下。請注意，如果不包括抵押倉庫，貸存比率將為 82.8%。存款成長也使我們的批發融資依賴度降低至 13.7%，而過去幾年同期這一比例超過 24%。

As you can see from the bottom left graph, we've kept the time deposit portfolio short and have $1.9 billion in CD maturities over the next two quarters with an average rate of 4.57% A short maturity profile helps us to manage the interest rate risk given the floating rate nature of the loan portfolio. On the bottom right, we show the monthly cost of total deposits. Note the 63-basis-point decline since the month of June 2024, including 24 basis points since year-end.

從左下圖可以看出，我們維持了定期存款組合的較短期限，未來兩季的定期存款到期金額為 19 億美元，平均利率為 4.57%。鑑於貸款組合的浮動利率性質，較短的到期期限結構有助於我們管理利率風險。在右下角，我們顯示了每月的總存款成本。請注意，自 2024 年 6 月以來下降了 63 個基點，其中包括自年底以來下降了 24 個基點。

If you look at interest-bearing deposits, they declined 37 basis points in Q4, and we followed that up with another 33 basis points of decline in Q1 of '25. Veritex is very focused on reducing deposit pricing where possible on existing accounts. Q1 '25 was another successful quarter of deposit remixing. Growth from our core lines of business allowed us to reduce our reliance on unattractively priced deposits like brokered or public. These unattractive deposits carry a cost that is approximately 185 basis points above our core business deposits. I'll now turn it over to Will for commentary on net interest income, investments and liquidity.

如果你看一下有利息的存款，你會發現它們在第四季度下降了 37 個基點，而 2025 年第一季又下降了 33 個基點。Veritex 非常注重盡可能降低現有帳戶的存款價格。25 年第一季是存款混合的另一個成功季度。我們核心業務的成長使我們能夠減少對經紀或公共存款等價格不具吸引力的存款的依賴。這些沒有吸引力的存款的成本比我們的核心業務存款高出約 185 個基點。現在我將把話題交給威爾，請他評論淨利息收入、投資和流動性。

Thanks, Terry. Slide 13 reflects a NIM increase of 11 basis points to 3.31% in Q1, which is slightly higher than the previously guided range of 3.25% to 3.30%. The primary driver of the NIM increase is a result of continued repricing and remixing efforts within the deposit portfolio Terry mentioned on the previous slide. The cost of interest-bearing liabilities declined 33 basis points in Q1, while the yield on earning assets only declined 12 basis points.

謝謝，特里。投影片 13 反映出第一季 NIM 增加了 11 個基點至 3.31%，略高於先前指引的 3.25% 至 3.30% 的範圍。NIM 成長的主要驅動力是 Terry 在上一張投影片中提到的存款組合持續重新定價和重新混合的努力的結果。第一季計息負債成本下降33個基點，而生息資產收益率僅下降12個基點。

On a dollar basis, net interest income was down $700,000 for the quarter, driven by two fewer days in the quarter, lower earning asset volume and the full quarter impact of rate cuts late in 2024 on loan yields, which were mostly offset by interest expense savings from deposit repricing efforts and lower interest-bearing average deposits. On a go-forward basis, we expect NIM to return to the 3.25% to 3.30% range for the remainder of the year, absent outsized or accelerated rate cuts.

以美元計算，本季淨利息收入下降 70 萬美元，原因是本季營業天數減少兩天、生息資產規模下降以及 2024 年末降息對貸款收益率的整個季度影響，但這些影響大部分被存款重新定價措施節省的利息支出和較低的計息平均存款所抵消。展望未來，我們預計，若無大幅或加速降息，淨利差將在今年剩餘時間內回到 3.25% 至 3.30% 的區間。

As we mentioned in previous quarters, a $250 million pay fixed balance sheet swap matured in late Q1, which will be partially offset by the interest savings from paying back the $75 million tranche of sub debt that Terry mentioned. We expect continued deposit remixing and repricing efforts against muted loan growth to result in a relatively stable NIM throughout 2025.

正如我們在前幾個季度中提到的那樣，一筆 2.5 億美元的固定資產負債表掉期於第一季末到期，這將被 Terry 提到的償還 7,500 萬美元次級債務所節省的利息部分抵消。我們預計，在貸款成長放緩的情況下，持續的存款重組和重新定價措施將導致 2025 年全年淨利差相對穩定。

Slide 14 shows certain key metrics of our investment portfolio. Key takeaways. It's only 11.6% of total assets. The effective duration is 3.6 years and 88% of the portfolio is held in AFS. Total available liquidity sits at $7.2 billion as of 3/31. The decline in available liquidity since Q3 2024 is a result of the decision to tighten wholesale liquidity policy limits in the fourth quarter, reflecting a lower liquidity risk appetite.

投影片 14 展示了我們投資組合的某些關鍵指標。關鍵要點。僅佔總資產的11.6%。有效期限為3.6年，88%的投資組合持有於AFS。截至 3 月 31 日，可用流動資金總額為 72 億美元。自2024年第三季以來，可用流動性的下降是由於第四季決定收緊批發流動性政策限制，反映出流動性風險偏好下降。

Finally, please note the economics of the BOLI exchange trade completed in the first quarter in which we exchanged an $18.1 million portion of our existing BOLI policy at a 2.76% yield for a new investment yielding 4.73%. We took a $517,000 onetime loss on the transaction, which equates to an annual pickup of $356,000, equating to a 1.4-year earn-back.

最後，請注意第一季完成的 BOLI 交換交易的經濟效益，其中我們以 2.76% 的收益率將現有 BOLI 保單的 1,810 萬美元部分兌換為收益率為 4.73% 的新投資。我們在這筆交易中承擔了 517,000 美元的一次性損失，相當於每年獲得 356,000 美元的收益，相當於 1.4 年的回報。

I'll now turn the call back over to Terry.

我現在將電話轉回給特里。

On slide 15, operating noninterest income increased 2.4% to $14.8 million on a linked quarter basis. Fee income as a percentage of total revenue has increased to 13.4% in Q1 '25 from 12.3% in Q1 '24. The goal is to drive fee income above 15% of total revenue. Operating noninterest expense declined $2.8 million for the quarter with a good execution across all the categories. The operating efficiency ratio declined 2.5% to 60.4%.

在第 15 張投影片上，營業非利息收入較上季成長 2.4%，達到 1,480 萬美元。費用收入佔總收入的百分比從 2024 年第一季的 12.3% 上升至 2025 年第一季的 13.4%。目標是使費用收入達到總收入的 15% 以上。本季營業非利息支出下降了 280 萬美元，所有類別的執行情況均良好。營業效率比下降2.5個百分點至60.4%。

To wrap up my comments, I see a lot of positives. The balance sheet continues to strengthen with more available liquidity, lower CRE and ADC concentrations, less reliance on unattractively priced deposits and higher capital levels. Q1 earnings were in line with internal expectations. The NIM expanded by 11 basis points to 3.31% driven by deposit cost. Fee income continues to build momentum across every category. Increased attention to expenses is showing encouraging results and loan production has increased meaningfully. The negatives I see are the lack of loan growth driven by elevated payoffs and elevated deposit costs from overreliance on expensive funding sources in earlier higher growth periods. We're working hard to address these negatives. With that, I'd like to turn the call back over to Mal.

總結一下我的評論，我看到了很多正面的方面。隨著可用流動性的增加、CRE 和 ADC 集中度的降低、對價格不具吸引力的存款的依賴減少以及資本水準的提高，資產負債表繼續增強。第一季財報符合內部預期。受存款成本推動，淨利差擴大 11 個基點至 3.31%。各類別的費用收入持續成長。對支出的更多關注正在產生令人鼓舞的結果，貸款產量也顯著增加。我看到的負面因素是，由於早期高成長時期過度依賴昂貴的資金來源，導致貸款利息增加，存款成本增加，導致貸款成長不足。我們正在努力解決這些負面問題。說完這些，我想把電話轉回給馬爾。

As you've heard, the Veritex team continues to manage our balance sheet, capital, deposit costs and earnings to add additional value to our company. We obviously have no control over the national economy and the various decisions made in Washington. Uncertainty has once again entered the system, but we remain focused and committed to our shareholders, team members and communities to bring the best Veritex we can. Operator, we will be happy to answer a few questions.

正如您所聽到的，Veritex 團隊繼續管理我們的資產負債表、資本、存款成本和收益，以增加我們公司的價值。我們顯然無法控制國民經濟和華盛頓所做的各種決定。不確定性再次進入系統，但我們仍然專注並致力於為股東、團隊成員和社區帶來最好的 Veritex。接線員，我們很樂意回答幾個問題。

(Operator Instructions) Brett Rabatin, Hovde.

（操作員說明）Brett Rabatin，Hovde。

I wanted to start with deposits and just obviously, strong core deposit growth and just wanted to see if that DDA was sticky and just what the success of that was mostly related to? And then on the CDs that are repricing in the next two quarters, the $1.9 billion at 4.57%, what level you think those might go to?

我想從存款開始，顯然核心存款成長強勁，只是想看看 DDA 是否具有黏性，以及它的成功主要與什麼有關？那麼，對於未來兩季重新定價的 CD，19 億美元，利率為 4.57%，您認為這些 CD 可能會達到什麼水平？

I think -- Brett, it's Terry. I think on the deposit side, some of this is seasonality and some of it is new customer attrition. On the DDA side. One of the things that's in DDA is our mortgage escrow. And Q4 is historically, especially with the T&I escrows, there's a lot of outflows during that period. So that's a contributor. And then just some good work by the banking teams on bringing in and allowing us to remix.

我認為——布雷特，是特里。我認為在存款方面，有些是季節性因素，有些是新客戶流失因素。在 DDA 方面。DDA 中的一項服務是我們的抵押貸款託管。從歷史上看，第四季度，尤其是 T&I 託管期間，會出現大量資金流出。這就是一位貢獻者。然後銀行團隊做了一些出色的工作，引入並允許我們進行混合。

Regarding the question on deposits, 4.57% so far in the second quarter, we're originating in the 4.15% to 4.25% range. So there's definitely -- as you think about the NIM, and Will factored this into his comments, yes, you've got the hedge rolling off, but we still got opportunity to help compensate for that from the hedge rolling off is this repricing opportunity.

關於存款的問題，第二季迄今的存款利率為 4.57%，我們預計在 4.15% 至 4.25% 的範圍內。因此，肯定存在 - 當你考慮 NIM 時，Will 在他的評論中也考慮到了這一點，是的，你已經進行了對沖，但我們仍然有機會通過對沖來彌補這一點，這就是重新定價的機會。

Okay. That's helpful. And then obviously, strong performance on managing expenses. What do you guys think the expenses do from here? And are there any initiatives that would grow expenses relative to the first quarter?

好的。這很有幫助。顯然，我們在費用管理方面表現強勁。你們認為這些費用從這裡扮演什麼角色？是否有任何舉措會導致第一季的支出增加？

Yes, Brett, I'll just say on the expense side, it's been a hot topic for the last couple of quarters, to say the least, amongst my team. And we talk about expenses often. One of the things I would mention is that we're still investing in people. We made some really key hires that you all you all know about in the third quarter last year, some leadership hires. Those hires are going to be filling their teams. So there will be some investments that we make in people. In fact, we have three pretty serious commercial bankers that are all starting within -- either started in the last 30 days or going to be started in the next 30 days.

是的，布雷特，我只想說，在費用方面，在過去的幾個季度裡，這至少在我的團隊中是一個熱門話題。我們經常談論開支。我想提到的一件事是，我們仍在對人才進行投資。去年第三季度，我們招募了一些你們都知道的關鍵人員，一些領導人員。這些僱員將會填補他們的團隊。因此，我們會對人才進行一些投資。事實上，我們有三位非常優秀的商業銀行家，他們要么是在過去 30 天內開始工作的，要么是將在未來 30 天內開始工作的。

And so we're working really hard on the expense side, knowing that we have some investments coming on the people side. So we're doing a good job of trying to manage the poor performers but also invest in the ones coming. I'm being a little evasive just to say that expenses are not going to go down from where they are. And we do have some folks coming on. Terry, you might want to --

因此，我們在費用方面非常努力，因為我們知道我們在人力方面會有一些投資。因此，我們在管理表現不佳的員工方面做得很好，同時也為新員工進行了投資。我有點含糊其辭，只是想說費用不會從目前的水準下降。我們確實有一些人加入。特里，你可能想--

Yes. I would add two things. One, I don't think the attention to expenses in the history of Veritex has ever been greater. Secondly, I want to make three points. I think Dom has done a really good job of moving out unproductive or not as attractive result bankers and replacing them in a good way with people who I think are going to drive this business model where we want it to go. And third, you can't -- I wouldn't annualize where we are in Q1 and say that's a good estimate for the quarter. It's going to go up a little, but I don't think you're going to see it get back to the levels you saw in Q4.

是的。我想補充兩點。首先，我認為 Veritex 歷史上對費用的關注從未如此強烈。其次我想講三點。我認為 Dom 做得非常好，他淘汰了那些沒有效率或沒有吸引力的結果銀行家，並用我認為能夠推動這一商業模式朝著我們想要的方向發展的人才來取代他們。第三，你不能——我不會將第一季的狀況按年化，然後說這是對該季度的一個良好估計。它會略有上升，但我認為你不會看到它回到第四季度的水平。

Okay. That's helpful. Yes, that's really helpful. And then if I could sneak in one last one. You mentioned commercial bankers and new hires. It sounds like given the payoffs that maybe you're backing off loan growth expectations for the year. Maybe Malcolm, do you think loans are flat this year with the first half being down and then the second half, you grow with all the commitments? Or what's your updated thoughts maybe on the loan pipeline relative to the loan growth?

好的。這很有幫助。是的，這確實很有幫助。然後如果我可以偷偷地再做最後一次。您提到了商業銀行家和新員工。聽起來，考慮到回報，也許你會放棄今年的貸款成長預期。也許馬爾科姆，您認為今年的貸款金額會持平，上半年會下降，而下半年會隨著所有承諾而成長嗎？或者您對貸款管道相對於貸款成長的最新看法是什麼？

Yes, you nailed it. I think we're looking for flat from year-over-year. Obviously, down the first quarter. Second quarter, we're hoping is going to be about flat, maybe a little down. But the back half certainly -- I mean, we could see it in our pipelines. I mean you don't grow pipelines 130% without getting some benefit of that down the road. So I think you nailed it, flat for the year and '26 looks pretty good.

是的，你成功了。我認為我們希望看到同比持平。顯然，第一季有所下降。我們希望第二季的業績基本上持平，或略有下降。但後半部分肯定——我的意思是，我們可以在我們的管道中看到它。我的意思是，你不會將管道成長 130%，但將來卻得不到任何好處。所以我認為你說對了，今年的業績持平，而且 26 年看起來相當不錯。

Yes. We have a -- given the pipelines and given the production that's already on the books, the outlook for loan growth in '26 is more in the mid- to high single digits, really something like that.

是的。考慮到管道和已經記錄的產量，我們預計 26 年貸款成長前景將處於中高個位數，確實如此。

Correct.

正確的。

All that being said, it could change tomorrow if the wrong week gets posted on Truth Social.

話雖如此，如果 Truth Social 上發布了錯誤的一周信息，明天情況可能會發生變化。

It's a volatile environment.

這是一個動盪的環境。

Stephen Scouten, Piper Sandler.

史蒂芬·斯考頓，派珀·桑德勒。

So just maybe staying on that loan growth topic. Is there kind of a high-level number that you guys think about in terms of the CRE headwind in terms of what you think you might face in paydowns throughout the rest of the year? Just kind of trying to frame that up versus the $2.8 billion in production you gave over the last four quarters. And just maybe if you have any numbers on where that unfunded book is today and kind of where that's been trending?

因此，也許我們只是繼續討論貸款成長這個話題。就您認為今年剩餘時間內可能面臨的 CRE 逆風而言，您是否考慮過一個大致的數字？只是想將其與過去四個季度的 28 億美元產值進行比較。您是否能提供一些數據來說明目前這些沒有資金支持的書籍的情況以及它們的流行趨勢？

I may not be able to give you exact numbers. I can give you some directionally accurate comments. We're going to manage -- I think as Terry says, we're going to manage that CRE number at the high 290s in the 90s on the ADC. The ADC stuff is paying off quickly. I think at the end of the quarter, we had 85%. We're not going to exceed that in the next quarter. We're going to see that number start to grow hopefully in the back half. Now we'll see it grow in the back half, but it probably isn't going to see any real growth until you hit '26.

我可能無法給你確切的數字。我可以給你一些方向準確的評論。我們將進行管理 — — 我認為正如 Terry 所說，我們將把 ADC 上的 CRE 數位管理在 90 年代的 290 多度。ADC 產品很快就獲得了回報。我認為在本季末，我們已經達到了 85%。下個季度我們不會超過這個數字。我們希望看到這個數字在下半年開始成長。現在我們會看到它在後半段有所增長，但可能要到 26 年才會出現真正的增長。

It's just those things have a long funding time. But we're going to -- our real estate team is doing an incredible job. They've kept the pricing at a really nice pricing. They deal with the best clients in the state of Texas, and it just takes a while to fund that stuff. The payoffs candidly have been pretty -- they've been pretty stable over the past couple of quarters. We expect that to continue through the next couple of quarters for sure.

只是這些事情的籌資時間很長。但我們會——我們的房地產團隊正在做著令人難以置信的工作。他們把價格保持在一個非常優惠的價格。他們與德州最好的客戶打交道，只是需要一段時間來籌集資金。坦白說，回報相當不錯——過去幾季一直相當穩定。我們預計這種趨勢肯定會在接下來的幾個季度持續下去。

And the back half could see a little bit of a raise, but not grossly over what we've already done. So the goal is to keep this a steady business instead of the wide fluctuations up and down and try to manage it right under the 300 and the 100 buckets. And we have a great core discipline in it. You can tell by our payoffs. But that's going to be a focus. But we don't -- our teams are doing exactly what we want them to do on that side of it. The investments we're talking about making are all in the commercial and industrial space, so in the C&I space. And that's the area where we're really placing the emphasis and the investment dollars.

後半部可能會有一點增加，但不會比我們已經做的增加太多。因此，我們的目標是保持業務穩定，而不是大幅波動，並嘗試將其管理在 300 和 100 個桶以下。我們擁有一門偉大的核心學科。您可以從我們的回報中看出這一點。但這將會成為焦點。但我們不會——我們的團隊正在做我們希望他們做的事情。我們所談論的投資都在商業和工業領域，也就是 C&I 領域。這正是我們真正重視和投入資金的領域。

Okay. Really helpful color there. I appreciate that. And then obviously, you can see in the presentation where the asset sensitivity of the balance sheet has been reduced fairly significantly. Just kind of curious how you think that plays out in practice if we get, I don't know what the expectations are for today, two cuts, four cuts, who the heck knows, but kind of how you think the balance sheet will respond, especially as there continues to be room on the funding side to lower cost?

好的。那裡的顏色確實很有幫助。我很感激。然後顯然，您可以在簡報中看到資產負債表的資產敏感度已大幅降低。我只是有點好奇，如果我們得到的話，您認為這在實踐中會如何發揮作用，我不知道今天的預期是什麼，兩次降息，四次降息，誰知道呢，但您認為資產負債表將如何反應，特別是在融資方面繼續有降低成本的空間的情況下？

Sure. No, great question, and that's definitely been a big area of emphasis with us. If you look at where we stood a year ago, take the down 100 cases, for example, it was over double what it stands right now. And so we really look at our profile as pretty rate neutral with the caveat that it takes us three to four months to catch up when we get a rate cut because of our loan book being so variable rate, 76% of our loans are floating.

當然。不，這個問題問得很好，這絕對是我們關注的重點領域。如果你看看我們一年前的情況，以減少 100 例為例，它是現在的兩倍多。因此，我們確實將我們的狀況視為相當中性的利率，但需要注意的是，由於我們的貸款帳簿利率浮動很大，76％的貸款都是浮動的，因此我們需要三到四個月的時間才能趕上降息。

And so when we get a rate cut, loans immediately price down and it takes us three months -- three to four months for the CD book to catch up, which that's why you've seen the NIM expansion in Q1 because we've had three months of stable rates. If we get -- if the dot plot is correct and we get two cuts, one per quarter in the back half of the year, I think the NIM remains in that range that we guided. If we get three or four and they start coming back to MA, I think you'll see a little bit of NIM pressure in the short run and then should stabilize and return to that range. Really, that's where we see it unless we see something outside of expectation, which is entirely possible.

因此，當我們降低利率時，貸款價格會立即下降，我們需要三個月——三到四個月的時間才能讓 CD 賬簿趕上來，這就是為什麼你會看到第一季的 NIM 擴張，因為我們已經有三個月的穩定利率。如果我們得到 - 如果點圖是正確的並且我們在下半年每季度削減兩次，我認為 NIM 仍將保持在我們指導的範圍內。如果我們得到三到四個並且它們開始回到 MA，我認為你會在短期內看到一點 NIM 壓力，然後應該穩定並回到該範圍。確實，這就是我們所看到的，除非我們看到一些超出預期的東西，而這是完全有可能的。

Definitely. Anything is possible. No, that's helpful. And then maybe just last thing for me. On the share repurchase, I know you said, I think opportunistic was the verbiage used there. Even with the snapback today, which we all hope holds for the group, it looks like the repurchase this quarter was done around like [$25.20], if my math is correct. So would it be fair to assume that at or below that kind of level from the first quarter, you guys would continue to be fairly aggressive around the repurchase?

確實。一切皆有可能。不，這很有幫助。這對我來說也許只是最後一件事。關於股票回購，我知道您說過，我認為那裡使用的措辭是機會主義的。即使今天出現了反彈，我們都希望這對集團有利，但如果我的計算正確的話，看起來本季的回購價格約為 [$25.20]。那麼，是否可以公平地假設，在第一季的這種水平或低於這種水平時，你們將繼續積極地進行回購？

I would say that if it's below tangible book value, see where the limit of our activity is, and we're going to stay close is not strong enough because it's accretive immediately and no earn back, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But no, I mean, look, we know what we've got left. I wouldn't expect the share buyback, 377,000 shares. I wouldn't expect that to go down. And if it's trading anywhere -- if it were to be below tangible book, it's -- I bet the over.

我想說的是，如果它低於有形帳面價值，看看我們活動的極限在哪裡，我們將保持接近，因為它不夠強大，因為它立即增值，沒有賺回，等等，等等，等等。但不，我的意思是，看，我們知道我們還剩下什麼。我不會期望股票回購，377,000股。我不希望這種情況發生。如果它在任何地方交易 - 如果它的價格低於有形帳面價值，那麼 - 我敢打賭它會高於有形帳面價值。

Michael Rose, Raymond James.

麥可羅斯、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Just wanted to get some color and visibility, just given some of the uncertainty in Washington just around the North Avenue capital business, the government guaranteed business. Any sort of outlook there that may be different from a couple of months ago just from what you're seeing here?

只是想獲得一些色彩和知名度，只是考慮到華盛頓在北大街資本業務和政府擔保業務方面存在的一些不確定性。從您現在看到的情況來看，那裡的前景與幾個月前相比有什麼不同嗎？

No. In fact, we're probably as bullish on that business as any business that we have at the company --

不。事實上，我們對這項業務的信心可能和公司其他業務一樣--

Government guaranteed.

政府擔保。

Yes, yes, yes.

是的，是的，是的。

He said North Avenue.

他說的是北大街。

He said -- I'm talking about total government -- I'm sorry. Yes. I mean we -- again, we put them all in one basket. I know they're different, but our reliance is more on the SBA side than it is on the NAC side. And so yes, we branded it Veritex government lending, but I understand your question. But we're still seeing some USDA opportunities, actually some really good ones.

他說——我說的是全能政府——對不起。是的。我的意思是我們——再次，我們把它們都放在一個籃子裡。我知道它們是不同的，但我們對 SBA 方面的依賴比對 NAC 方面的依賴更大。是的，我們將其命名為 Veritex 政府貸款，但我明白您的問題。但我們仍然看到一些美國農業部的機會，實際上是一些非常好的機會。

We had our first approval through the Veritex system, if you will, because now it's running through Veritex and not through NAC anymore. So we're pretty encouraged. Now we don't -- we're not going to have the volumes at one time that we had. But what's happened is those folks that were at North Avenue Capital are now into the SBA space, and they have a huge pipeline. It's -- you're dealing with the similar type folks out there, whether it's a broker community or what have you, that have been able to produce some nice volume.

如果您願意的話，我們是透過 Veritex 系統獲得首次批准的，因為現在它是透過 Veritex 運行，而不再透過 NAC 運行。因此我們非常受鼓舞。現在，我們不再擁有以前擁有的數量了。但實際情況是，曾在 North Avenue Capital 工作的人現在都進入了 SBA 領域，並且擁有龐大的人才儲備。您正在與類似類型的人打交道，無論是經紀人社區還是其他什麼，他們都能夠產生一些不錯的交易量。

We've made some substantial investments in government guaranteed and just as recently as this week. And when I say substantial, I mean substantial people across the country. And so it's going to take them a little while to get ramped up, but I think you're going to see that business be an outperformer in the back half of this year and into '26.

就在本週，我們剛剛對政府擔保進行了一些重大投資。當我說大量的時候，我指的是全國各地的大量人民。因此，他們需要一些時間來提高速度，但我認為你會看到這項業務在今年下半年和 26 年表現出色。

It's had -- the SBA business has had two incredibly strong quarters in a row. And all indications are that's not slowing down even as these people come in and get on board.

SBA 業務已經連續兩季表現異常強勁。所有的跡像都表明，即使這些人加入進來，這種勢頭也沒有減緩。

And an economy that arguably may be going down a little bit, this is a space that actually gets more active.

儘管經濟可能正在略微下滑，但這個領域實際上變得更加活躍。

Helpful. And I know this is a difficult question to ask, but you guys did about $10.1 million in that line item last year, the year before was roughly double that. Any sort of outlook just given what you laid out just in terms of some of the momentum in this quarter's start of where that could end up for the year?

很有幫助。我知道這是一個很難回答的問題，但你們去年在這個項目上的支出約為 1010 萬美元，前年大約是這個數字的兩倍。鑑於您所闡述的本季初的一些發展勢頭，您對今年的勢頭有何展望？

We're not to the point where we can get back to where we were two years ago. But we would also be very disappointed if we don't do materially better than last year. So --

我們還沒有恢復到兩年前的水準。但如果我們的表現沒有比去年有實質的改善，我們也會非常失望。所以--

In between the two numbers is a good place to be.

這兩個數字之間是一個很好的位置。

Exactly.

確切地。

Okay. Helpful. Yes, just because it's pretty hard from the outside looking in to kind of forecast that. So I appreciate it.

好的。很有幫助。是的，因為從外部來看很難預測這一點。所以我很感激。

And as we said, we're trying to flatten that out, Michael. We know it's discouraging for you guys and it's discouraging for us to be able to forecast. And so we're working really hard to flatten that out.

正如我們所說的，我們正在努力解決這個問題，邁克爾。我們知道這對你們來說是令人沮喪的，而且對我們來說，預測也是令人沮喪的。因此我們正在努力解決這個問題。

And that's why SBA is such a more -- a greater emphasis. It's more granular. Our average loan size is $1.5 million. And in the USDA space, the average loan size in 2023 was probably $18 million to $20 million or something like that. And so it's just way more granular. It's easier to forecast, and it's a more stable revenue stream that we can expand on.

這就是為什麼 SBA 受到如此重視。它更加細粒度。我們的平均貸款額為 150 萬美元。在美國農業部，2023 年的平均貸款規模大概是 1,800 萬美元到 2,000 萬美元左右。因此它更加細化。它更容易預測，並且是我們可以擴展的更穩定的收入來源。

I totally get it. Terry, maybe just one on the warehouse outlook. Obviously, a step down this quarter, but still up materially on an average basis year-over-year. Any sort of thoughts there? I know mortgage rates have remained particularly sticky. And then any sort of RWA relief that you guys are expecting just with some of the changes that are out there?

我完全明白。特里，也許只是關於倉庫前景的一個問題。顯然，本季有所下降，但與去年同期相比平均仍有大幅上升。有什麼想法嗎？我知道抵押貸款利率一直保持特別穩定。那麼，你們是否期望透過現有的一些變化來減輕 RWA 負擔？

It's on our radar. That's something that over the balance of the year, et cetera, the RWA relief there and in NDFI are an important priority for us. Balances, Michael, it's so hard. I mean last week, they were -- apps were down, what, 12% to 13% week-over-week, I saw. And it's so tied to rates. And yet a month ago, they were having unbelievable volumes. So we like the business. I'd like it even better with the RWA relief. But the risk-adjusted returns are still really, really good.

它在我們的雷達上。就全年餘額等而言，那裡的 RWA 減免以及 NDFI 對我們來說都是重要的優先事項。保持平衡，邁克爾，這太難了。我的意思是，上週，我發現應用程式數量下降了，比前一周下降了 12% 到 13%。並且它與利率密切相關。然而一個月前，他們的交易量還是令人難以置信。所以我們喜歡這個生意。如果有 RWA 減免的話我會更喜歡。但風險調整後的回報仍然非常非常好。

So I would expect -- there's a lot of seasonality and hopefully, with some clarity on the Washington economic front, if rates can come down, I like what they're doing today on the long end, then hopefully, volumes pick up and averages. I would love to see averages $100 million to $150 million higher than they are, but it's a function of rates.

因此我預計——有很多季節性因素，並且希望隨著華盛頓經濟形勢的明朗，如果利率能夠下降，我喜歡他們今天在長期所做的一切，然後希望交易量和平均值能夠回升。我希望看到平均值比現在高出 1 億到 1.5 億美元，但這取決於利率。

Did you just ask for clarity in Washington?

您是否剛剛要求華盛頓做出澄清？

Everyone's got a prayer every now and then.

每個人時不時都會祈禱。

And Terry, I think this is your last earnings call. So I just want to say congrats on a great career.

特里，我認為這是你的最後一次財報電話會議。所以我只想對你的偉大事業表示祝賀。

Catherine Mealor, KBW.

凱瑟琳·米勒（Catherine Mealor），KBW。

I just wanted to have a follow-up just on the growth outlook. And I guess two questions. One is how -- I know a lot of the -- I mean, the pipeline has built, which is so great to see. So maybe the question is how much risk do you see in that pipeline maybe not following through just given kind of the volatility that we're seeing in the market versus how much of that you feel like is money good and is loan commitments that will be following through for the next couple of quarters?

我只是想對成長前景進行追蹤。我想問兩個問題。一是——我知道很多——我的意思是，管道已經建成，這真是令人高興。所以也許問題是，考慮到我們在市場上看到的那種波動性，您認為該管道可能存在多大的風險，可能無法繼續執行，而您認為其中有多少是好的資金，有多少是將在未來幾季繼續執行的貸款承諾？

And then within that, my second question is just you talked about how a lot of your investments are in the C&I space. I'm curious how much of that pipeline is in CRE versus C&I?

然後，我的第二個問題是，您剛才談到了您在 C&I 領域的投資有多少。我很好奇該管道中有多少屬於 CRE，有多少屬於 C&I？

Yes. Just talking about the risk in that pipeline, obviously, the answer for me is going to be, oh, it's great. We just approved it. But I guess if you peel back the sheets a little bit, the underwriting on that business is actually better than it's ever been. You've got huge amounts of equity, whether it's 40% to 50% in a couple of cases. You still got good rates. And at the end of the day, it's who the sponsor is. Our team has done a great job at dealing with the cream of the crop.

是的。只談論該管道中的風險，顯然，我的答案是，哦，這很棒。我們剛剛批准了它。但我想，如果你稍微回顧一下，你會發現這項業務的承保情況實際上比以往任何時候都要好。你擁有大量的股權，在某些情況下是 40% 到 50%。您仍可獲得優惠的價格。而歸根究底，問題在於贊助商是誰。我們的團隊在處理精英人才方面做得非常出色。

And so when folks were still out of the space and we've got in maybe a quarter or two before the rest of them, you could dictate the terms. Now the terms you could see they're starting to break down a little bit. And when I say break down, I'm not talking about materially. Instead of getting 45%, you may get 40%. And so we feel really, really strongly about the type of stuff we're putting on. We're not going to go -- we're not going to put stuff on that we think we're going to have to deal with later. In terms of the percentages of that pipeline --

因此，當人們還沒有到達預定地點時，我們可能會比其他人提前一兩個季度到達，你就可以規定條款。現在您可以看到這些術語開始有點分解了。當我說崩潰時，我指的並不是物質的崩潰。您獲得的可能不是 45%，而是 40%。因此，我們對所投放的東西的類型有著非常非常強烈的感覺。我們不會去——我們不會把我們認為以後要處理的事情放在上面。就該管道的百分比而言--

I would say it's 2/3 C&I, 1/3 CRE. I don't have it in front of me, but it's somewhere and close to that. And you and I haven't talked about this, but my confidence is much greater in the CRE side because of all the in-migration and all the things that are going on.

我想說的是 2/3 C&I，1/3 CRE。它不在我的面前，但它就在我面前的某個地方，而且離我面前很近。雖然我們還沒有談論過這個問題，但由於大量的移民和正在發生的一切，我對 CRE 方面的信心要大得多。

On the C&I side, I mean we've seen it in revolver utilization. It's come down some. So I think you would -- I would say the risk of not getting the pull-through is higher C&I than it is CRE right now. But I don't know if you agree.

在商業和工業方面，我的意思是我們已經看到了左輪手槍的使用。已經下降了一些。所以我認為你會——我想說，目前無法獲得拉動的風險是 C&I 高於 CRE。但我不知道您是否同意。

Gary Tenner, D.A. Davidson.

坦納 (Gary Tenner)、地方檢察官戴維森 (D.A. Davidson)。

I wanted to ask a couple of questions. First, in terms of the securities portfolio, I think you highlighted $175 million in cash flows expected the next 12 months. Are you currently reinvesting? Or are you kind of using that as a source of cash to further reduce wholesale funding?

我想問幾個問題。首先，就證券投資組合而言，我認為您強調了未來 12 個月預計的 1.75 億美元現金流。您目前正在進行再投資嗎？或者您將其用作現金來源以進一步減少批發融資？

We're targeted investments. I mean we're picking up stuff if we see there's a market opportunity that (inaudible). Since loans have been muted the last couple of quarters, we've been using funds to pay down wholesale as you saw. So once you see loan growth pick up, obviously, we have to fund the other side of that and to stay at our LDR target. So you'll see us be more active in the investment portfolio once earning asset growth picks up.

我們是有針對性的投資。我的意思是，如果我們發現有市場機會，我們就會買入（聽不清楚）。由於過去幾季貸款一直處於低迷狀態，正如您所見，我們一直在使用資金來償還批發貸款。因此，一旦看到貸款成長回升，顯然我們必須為另一方提供資金，並保持我們的貸款佔比目標。因此，一旦獲利資產成長回升，你就會看到我們在投資組合中更加積極。

Okay. Great. And then just a quick follow-up on the fee side. I know you've kind of talked about wanting a 60 handle on fees for the full year. And on an operating basis, you were basically right at that run rate or a hair below it. Anything -- as you think about the pipeline and sounded very positive on government guarantee, anything that kind of increases that kind of baseline or too early to tell?

好的。偉大的。然後簡單跟進一下費用方面的問題。我知道您曾談到希望全年費用控制在 60% 左右。從營運角度來看，您的營運率基本上處於該水平或略低於該水平。任何事情——當您考慮管道並且對政府擔保非常樂觀時，任何會增加這種基線的事情都會發生，還是現在說還為時過早？

I think the momentum, I think, is going to build. I feel like our customer swap income is a place that they're having -- they had a good first quarter, and I'm encouraged by how the second quarter has started. There's some things we got going in the card and sponsorship space. We did a -- we've got a lot going on in treasury.

我認為這種勢頭將會增強。我覺得我們的客戶掉期收入是他們所擁有的——他們第一季表現良好，我對第二季的開局感到鼓舞。我們在卡片和贊助領域進行了一些工作。我們做了——我們在財務方面有很多事情要做。

So to me, it's really across the board, syndications as we've gotten more active in CRE and where the size of the projects and the ability for Andrew and his team to sell down and has been really strong, too, and I'm expecting a strong year there. So that's why I said to me, it's -- you don't see it all yet, but you can feel the momentum and --

所以對我來說，這真的是全面的，因為我們在 CRE 中變得更加活躍，而且專案規模以及 Andrew 和他的團隊出售的能力也非常強大，我預計今年將會表現強勁。所以我跟我說，你還沒看到全部，但你可以感受到它的動力和--

And not hanging on one area. Every single area is contributing. So that's where we get some pretty high confidence that the 60 annual is a pretty decent number.

而不是停留在一個區域。每個領域都在做出貢獻。因此，我們非常有信心，60 年是一個相當不錯的數字。

Yes.

是的。

Great. And just lastly, you kind of noted the increased weighting in the Moody's downside scenario. Can you just remind us where the weighting was last quarter?

偉大的。最後，您注意到穆迪下行情境的權重增加。您能提醒我們上個季度的權重是多少嗎？

It was at 65%, but we shifted some weight towards scenario 4, just out of an abundance of caution. So the overall downside stayed the same, but some of it went from, say, scenario 2 to scenario 4.

該比例為 65%，但出於謹慎考慮，我們將一些重點轉向了情境 4。因此，整體不利因素保持不變，但其中一些因素從情境 2 轉變為情境 4。

Well, Terry, keep on praying, it seems to be working today.

好吧，特里，繼續祈禱吧，今天看來祈禱是有效的。

(Operator Instructions) Matt Olney, Stephens.

（操作員指示）馬特·奧爾尼，史蒂芬斯。

Just want to go back to the discussion around capital. And you mentioned you increased the dividend, really active buyback in the first quarter, and it sounds like you want to remain active on that buyback. Curious about the -- I think there's a sub debt instrument that becomes callable later on this year. Just curious if that's on the radar, if there's any appetite to pay this down later on in the year.

我只是想回到有關資本的討論。您提到您增加了股息，第一季的回購非常活躍，聽起來您希望繼續積極進行回購。我很好奇——我認為今年晚些時候會出現一種可贖回的次級債務工具。只是好奇這是否在考慮範圍內，是否有意願在今年稍後償還這筆款項。

It's definitely on the radar. It's a $125 million tranche. It's mid-October. I don't -- we're certainly watching it, watching the market where you can refinance the debt, et cetera. And I think the outlook or the probability of paying it all off is low. I think the probability of paying some of it off, which we can do, is very high. And some of this is going to depend on what happens with our CRE payoffs.

它肯定在雷達上。這是一筆價值 1.25 億美元的款項。現在是十月中旬。我不知道——我們當然在關注它，關注可以為債務再融資的市場等等。我認為償還所有債務的前景或可能性很低。我認為償還部分債務的可能性非常高，而且我們能夠做到。這在一定程度上取決於我們的 CRE 收益狀況。

So I'm sorry, I don't -- I mean, there's just -- it's there. We're watching it all the time, but we've decided we're not -- it's not the time to make a definitive decision until we see more -- we need to see things play out a little bit from an economic and rate perspective.

所以很抱歉，我不知道——我的意思是，它只是——它就在那裡。我們一直在關注此事，但我們決定不做——在我們了解更多信息之前，現在還不是做出最終決定的時候——我們需要從經濟和利率的角度觀察事態的發展。

The other thing, Matt, I mean, even is on the table is a complete refinance depending on what happens in the rate markets there might be a place where we want to go ahead and redo it and maybe even increase it because we could use some more of that. But it's all dependent on three or four factors and rates being probably the greatest one as well as our CRE forecast.

另一件事，馬特，我的意思是，即使在討論中，也是完全的再融資，這取決於利率市場的情況，我們可能想要繼續進行並重新進行，甚至可能增加它，因為我們可以使用更多。但這一切都取決於三、四個因素，其中利率可能是最重要的因素，以及我們的 CRE 預測。

Yes. Okay. Appreciate that. And then on the credit overall trends are good in the quarter, lower criticized loans. I think the only blemish that Curtis mentioned was some migration into the nonaccrual loan bucket. I think office and retail property was mentioned. Any more color on those migrations?

是的。好的。非常感謝。本季信貸整體趨勢良好，受批評的貸款減少。我認為柯蒂斯提到的唯一瑕疵是一些資金轉移到了非應計貸款類別。我認為提到了辦公大樓和零售物業。關於這些遷移還有更多詳情嗎？

They were -- they're long-standing names that we've been working with. We're taking the action to move them through and move forward. So I would just say that there's strategies in place to have those moved off by the beginning of the third quarter, and we feel confident in our ability to do that.

他們是我們一直合作的老牌公司。我們正在採取行動幫助他們渡過難關並繼續前進。因此，我只想說，我們已經制定了策略，可以在第三季初完成這些任務，我們有信心做到這一點。

Terry, congrats and keep in touch.

特里，恭喜你並保持聯繫。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a great day.

問答環節到此結束。感謝大家參加今天的會議。該計劃確實就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。祝大家有個愉快的一天。