Veritex Holdings Inc (VBTX) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to the Veritex Holdings Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call and Webcast. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this event will be recorded. I will now turn the conference over to Will Holford with Veritex.

早上好，歡迎參加 Veritex Holdings 2024 年第四季和全年財報電話會議和網路廣播。（操作員指示）請注意，此事件將被記錄。現在我將會議交給 Veritex 的 Will Holford。

Thank you. Before we get started, I'd like to remind you that this presentation may include forward-looking statements, and those statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual and anticipated results to differ. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly revise any forward-looking statement. If you're logged into our webcast, please refer to our slide presentation, including our safe harbor statement beginning on Slide 2. For those on the phone, please note that the safe harbor statement and all presentations are available on our website, veritexbank.com.

謝謝。在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，本簡報可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果和預期結果有所不同。該公司不承擔公開修改任何前瞻性聲明的義務。如果您登入了我們的網路廣播，請參閱我們的幻燈片演示，包括從幻燈片 2 開始的安全港聲明。對於透過電話聯繫的用戶，請注意安全港聲明和所有簡報均可在我們的網站 veritexbank.com 上找到。

All comments made today are subject to that safe harbor statement. Some financial metrics discussed will be on a non-GAAP basis, which management believes better reflects the underlying core operating performance of the business. Please see the reconciliation of all discussed non-GAAP measures in our filed 8-K earnings release. Joining me on the call today are Malcolm Holland, our Chairman and CEO; and Terry Earley, our Chief Financial Officer; and Curtis Anderson, our Chief Credit Officer. I'll now turn the call over to Malcolm.

今天發表的所有評論均須遵守該安全港聲明。一些討論的財務指標將以非 GAAP 為基礎，管理層認為這能更好地反映業務的基本核心營運績效。請參閱我們提交的 8-K 收益報告中討論的所有非 GAAP 指標的對帳表。今天與我一起參加電話會議的還有我們的董事長兼首席執行官馬爾科姆·霍蘭德 (Malcolm Holland)；以及我們的首席財務官 Terry Earley；以及我們的首席信貸官柯蒂斯·安德森 (Curtis Anderson)。我現在將電話轉給馬爾科姆。

Thank you, Will. Good morning, everyone. Today, we'll review our fourth quarter and full year 2024 results. For the fourth quarter, we reported net operating profit of $29.8 million or $0.54 per share. Pretax pre-provision earnings were $41 million or 1.28%.

謝謝你，威爾。大家早安。今天，我們將回顧 2024 年第四季和全年的業績。第四季度，我們報告的淨營業利潤為 2,980 萬美元，即每股 0.54 美元。稅前撥備前收益為 4,100 萬美元，即 1.28%。

NIM decreased during the quarter, but we anticipate to increase it from here, which Terry will cover in detail later in the call. For the full year 2024, we made operating earnings of $119.4 million or $2.17 per share, which was flat over 2023. As I've stated many times during 2024, we communicated our earnings would take a hit to transform our balance sheet. We feel very good about where our balance sheet currently stands and earnings will begin to increase from their current levels. We are laser-focused and committed to return on average asset levels in excess of 1% in 2025 and beyond.

本季 NIM 有所下降，但我們預計此後會增加，Terry 將在稍後的電話會議中詳細介紹。2024 年全年，我們的營業利潤為 1.194 億美元，即每股 2.17 美元，與 2023 年持平。正如我在 2024 年多次提到的那樣，我們表示我們的收益將受到打擊，從而改變我們的資產負債表。我們對目前的資產負債表狀況感到非常滿意，收益將從目前水準開始增加。我們高度集中精力，致力於在 2025 年及以後實現超過 1% 的平均資產回報率。

Although the vast majority of the balance sheet work is completed, there are still opportunities for us to be more efficient with our liabilities through repricing and positioning of our funding. You saw some of this in the fourth quarter as our balance sheet decreased approximately $300 million, running off some high-priced funding. We also saw a small decrease in our funded loans for the fourth quarter and year-over-year. We expect 2025 to be a positive loan growth year between low to mid-single digits due to very high forecasted payoffs. The disciplined loan focus and new client acquisition has my undivided attention as well as our bankers.

儘管絕大部分資產負債表工作已經完成，但我們仍有機會透過重新定價和定位資金來更有效地處理負債。您在第四季就看到了這種情況，因為我們的資產負債表減少了約 3 億美元，消耗了一些高價資金。我們也發現第四季和去年同期的貸款總額略有下降。由於預測回報非常高，我們預計 2025 年的貸款成長率將達到低至中個位數。我和我們的銀行家都全神貫注於嚴格的貸款重點和新客戶的取得。

When I say disciplined, I'm speaking about our ability to continue to be deposit first focused with well-priced relationships that produce available funding and spreads that are accretive and profitable. I'm now going to turn the call over to Curtis Anderson, our Chief Credit Officer, to give you an update on our credit picture. I want to add that Curtis and all his dedicated teams have done an incredible job in 2024 transforming our credit process, our credit priorities and our credit surveillance. As a result of their work, criticized loans have declined 20% over the last 12 months and including two large payoffs in the first two weeks of January, that percentage decline goes to 28%. The numbers speak for themselves, but the team's focus and execution has been, quite frankly, remarkable.

當我說自律時，我指的是我們有能力繼續以存款為中心，建立價格合理的關係，從而產生可用的資金和可增值且有利可圖的利差。現在我將把電話轉給我們的首席信貸官柯蒂斯·安德森 (Curtis Anderson)，讓他向您介紹我們的信用狀況。我想補充一點，柯蒂斯和他所有敬業的團隊在 2024 年做出了出色的工作，改變了我們的信貸流程、信貸重點和信貸監控。由於他們的努力，受到批評的貸款在過去 12 個月內下降了 20%，如果算上 1 月前兩週的兩筆大額還款，這一下降幅度達到 28%。數字說明了一切，但坦白說，團隊的專注力和執行力非常出色。

More to do, but I'm super proud of the progress. I'll now turn the call over to Curtis.

還有很多事情要做，但我對所取得的進展感到非常自豪。我現在將電話轉給柯蒂斯。

Thank you, Malcolm, and good morning all. We continue to realize positive momentum in credit, [ we ] are focused on early identification of risk and balancing expediency with productive outcomes on problem loans. During the quarter, we foreclosed on an office property, which increased our NPAs from $67.3 million at third quarter end to $79.2 million at year-end. The property has significant interest from various potential buyers, and it is currently under an LOI. Closing is expected in early second quarter with no loss.

謝謝你，馬爾科姆，大家早安。我們繼續看到信貸領域的積極勢頭，我們專注於及早識別風險，並在問題貸款的權宜之計和生產結果之間取得平衡。在本季度，我們取消了一處辦公大樓的贖回權，這使我們的不良資產從第三季末的 6,730 萬美元增加到年底的 7,920 萬美元。該房產受到許多潛在買家的濃厚興趣，目前正處於意向書階段。預計交易將於第二季初完成，且不會造成損失。

Charge-offs for the year are below previously provided guidance. Fourth quarter charge-offs are predominantly driven by a C&I relationship and a special-purpose CRE property. In general, our 2024 full year charge-offs reflect the impact of final resolutions on a number of loans in our drive to address velocity and throughput in managing credit risk. Past dues were generally in line with prior quarters. The increase in 30 to 59 days past due category largely reflects relationships for which payments were slightly delayed and are now current and without underlying credit concerns.

本年度的沖銷額低於先前提供的指引。第四季的沖銷主要由 C&I 關係和特殊用途 CRE 財產驅動。總體而言，我們 2024 年全年的沖銷反映了我們在解決信用風險管理速度和吞吐量問題的過程中對多筆貸款的最終解決方案的影響。逾期款項總體與前幾季持平。逾期 30 至 59 天類別的增加主要反映了付款略有延遲的關係，目前付款已到賬且沒有潛在的信用問題。

Moving to Slide 6. We are pleased with the continued progress in managing and reducing our criticized loans with strong end-to-end focus by our frontline special assets, credit officer and loan servicing teammates. Criticized loans are down $100 million or nearly 20% year-over-year and down $78.5 million from the third quarter due to improved borrower performance, refinancings and payoffs. Total CRE criticized loans are $228.5 million, down 35% from year-end 2023. Please note that the breakdown of CRE criticized by property type as now presented is accurate.

移至幻燈片 6。我們很高興看到，透過第一線特殊資產、信貸員和貸款服務團隊成員的全程關注，我們在管理和減少不良貸款方面取得了持續進展。由於借款人表現改善、再融資和還款情況改善，受批評的貸款較上年同期減少 1 億美元，降幅近 20%，較第三季減少 7,850 萬美元。CRE 受批評貸款總額為 2.285 億美元，較 2023 年底下降 35%。請注意，現在所呈現的按財產類型所批評的 CRE 的細分是準確的。

This information is posted on our website. Finally, with respect to criticized loans, as Malcolm mentioned, certain closings and payoffs that we expected at year-end shifted to early January. These payoffs have further reduced criticized loans by approximately $50 million to $365.6 million. The related charge-offs for these resolutions are $1 million. There is significant risk management activity under the surface of these numbers.

此資訊已發佈在我們的網站上。最後，關於受到批評的貸款，正如馬爾科姆所提到的，我們預計在年底完成的某些結清和還款已推遲到 1 月初。這些還款進一步減少了約 5,000 萬美元的受批評貸款，至 3.656 億美元。這些決議的相關沖銷金額為 100 萬美元。這些數字背後隱藏著重大的風險管理活動。

The portfolio is dynamic and the routines in place to properly identify grade and manage risk are robust. We continue to execute our credit improvement initiatives with much more work to be done, but our focus is there. I'll now turn the call over to Terry Earley, our Chief Financial Officer, to discuss our financial highlights.

投資組合是動態的，並且正確識別等級和管理風險的程序是健全的。我們將繼續執行我們的信用改善計劃，儘管還有很多工作要做，但我們的重點是這個。現在我將把電話轉給我們的財務長 Terry Earley，討論我們的財務亮點。

Thank you, Curtis. Starting on Page 7. When I look at the results for 2024, I'm encouraged. The balance sheet is in a good place, liquidity is strong, reliance on wholesale funding is down 20% in the last year, capital and reserves are up and pre-concentration levels are within the regulatory guidelines. Moving to Page 8.

謝謝你，柯蒂斯。從第 7 頁開始。當我看到 2024 年的結果時，我感到很鼓舞。資產負債表狀況良好，流動性強勁，去年對批發融資的依賴下降了 20%，資本和儲備增加，集中前水準符合監管準則。移至第 8 頁。

The CET1 ratio expanded by 23 basis points during the quarter and by 80 basis points year-over-year and now stands at 11.09%. Over the last two years, a significant contributor to the expansion in the capital ratios is attributed to approximately $750 million decline in risk-weighted assets. Tangible book value per share is at $21.61, down slightly from the third quarter of 2024 as the increase in AOCI and our quarterly dividend were offset by earnings that a 10.9% increase on a year-over-year basis, including the shareholder dividends. It's worth noting that since Veritex went public in 2014, its compounded tangible book value per share at a rate of 11.1%, including the dividends we've been paid to shareholders. Finally, Veritex did not purchase any shares during the quarter.

本季度，CET1 比率擴大了 23 個基點，年比擴大了 80 個基點，目前為 11.09%。在過去兩年中，資本充足率擴張的一個重要原因是風險加權資產下降了約 7.5 億美元。每股有形帳面價值為 21.61 美元，較 2024 年第三季略有下降，因為 AOCI 和季度股息的成長被收益（包括股東股息）年增 10.9% 所抵銷。值得注意的是，自 2014 年 Veritex 上市以來，其每股有形帳面價值的複合成長率為 11.1%，其中包括我們向股東支付的股利。最後，Veritex 在本季沒有購買任何股票。

We have 93% of the authorized stock buyback program remaining and intend to be opportunistic and [ obtuse ]. On to Page 9. The allowance now sits at 118 basis points, up significantly in the last 8 quarters as we've increased the reserve by almost 25% or $22 million. Additionally, when you exclude the mortgage warehouse, the ACL coverage rises to 125 basis points. Our general reserves comprise 97% of the total allowance.

我們還有 93% 的授權股票回購計畫剩餘，並打算把握機會[ 鈍 ] 。翻到第 9 頁。目前，準備金率為 118 個基點，在過去 8 個季度中大幅上升，因為我們將儲備金增加了近 25% 或 2,200 萬美元。此外，當您排除抵押倉庫時，ACL 覆蓋率將上升至 125 個基點。我們的一般儲備佔總儲備的 97%。

We continue to use conservative economic assumptions in our credit loss modeling with 65% of the weighting on downside scenarios and per quarter, it was 75% on the downside. This change seems appropriate [ in ] the change of administration, business optimism, strength in GDP, et cetera. The quarter-over-quarter decline in the absolute dollar amount of reserves makes sense when you look at the decline in loan outstandings, the improvement in our credit risk profile and the level of business optimism. Moving to Page 10. Total loans declined 1.2% during Q4 and 0.7% on a year-over-year basis.

我們在信用損失模型中繼續使用保守的經濟假設，其中 65% 的權重放在下行情境上，而每季下行情境的權重為 75%。這種變化似乎是適當的，因為政府的更迭、商業樂觀、GDP 的強勁等等。當你看到貸款餘額的下降、信用風險狀況的改善和商業樂觀程度時，儲備絕對美元金額的環比下降是有道理的。移至第 10 頁。第四季貸款總額下降 1.2%，較去年同期下降 0.7%。

We made significant progress in reducing our CRE and ADC concentrations and ended the quarter at [ $2.99 and 87% ], respectively. The significant decline in ADC can be seen in the top right graph and has been largely offset with growth in multifamily and mortgage warehouse. The Cree maturity profile is shown in the bottom right graphs, we have just under $400 million in fixed rate maturities at an average rate of 5.48% over the next 4 quarters. As shown on the bottom left, loan production increased 44% from 2023 to 2024, but loan payoffs remain elevated at almost [ $1.4 million ]. We're projecting payoffs to be even higher in 2025.

我們在降低 CRE 和 ADC 濃度方面取得了重大進展，本季末分別為 [ 2.99 美元和 87% ]。從右上圖可以看出 ADC 的大幅下降，並且在很大程度上被多戶住宅和抵押貸款倉庫的成長所抵消。Cree 的到期情況如右下圖所示，我們有近 4 億美元的固定利率到期債券，未來 4 季的平均利率為 5.48%。如左下角所示，2023 年至 2024 年，貸款產出成長了 44%，但貸款償還率仍維持在高位，幾乎[140萬美元]。我們預計 2025 年的回報將會更高。

This payoff activity reflects the vibrant economic activity in the Texas market, but it does make organic loan growth balance. Slide 11 provides the detail of the Term Korean ADC portfolios by asset class, including what is out of state. It also shows a breakdown of our upstate loan portfolio, including the significant impact of our national businesses and mortgage. The true percentage of the out-of-state portfolio is only 11%. This is predominantly where we have followed Texas real estate clients to other geographies.

此次還款活動反映了德州市場活躍的經濟活動，但確實實現了有機貸款成長平衡。幻燈片 11 提供了韓國定期 ADC 投資組合按資產類別劃分的詳細信息，包括州外資產。它還顯示了我們北部地區貸款組合的細目，包括我們全國性業務和抵押貸款的重大影響。州外投資組合的真實比例僅 11%。這主要是因為我們跟隨德克薩斯州的房地產客戶前往其他地區。

On Page 12. Our strong deposit growth and low loan growth has allowed Veritex to reduce its loan-to-deposit ratio from 104% to 89% over the past two years. We intend to remain below 90% going forward. Please note the loan-to-deposit ratio would be just under 83% if you exclude mortgage warehouse. This seems to be a more relevant metric when you consider the short amount of time mortgages stay on the warehouse lines.

在第 12 頁。強勁的存款成長和較低的貸款成長使得 Veritex 在過去兩年中將其貸存比從 104% 降低至 89%。我們打算今後將這一比例保持在 90% 以下。請注意，如果不包括抵押倉庫，貸存比率將略低於 83%。當你考慮到抵押貸款在倉庫排隊的時間較短時，這似乎是一個更相關的指標。

The deposit growth also allowed us to reduce our wholesale funding reliance to 16.6% and 24% over the same 2-year period. As you can see in the bottom left graph, we've kept the time deposit portfolio short and have $2.3 billion in CD maturities over the next two quarters with an average rate of 4.95%. Glad to have this maturity profile given the bit cuts that have occurred and the potential for more in 2025. On the bottom right, we showed the monthly cost of total deposits. Note the 39 basis point decline since the month of June.

存款成長也使我們在同一兩年內將批發融資依賴度降低至 16.6％ 和 24％。正如您在左下圖中看到的，我們保持定期存款組合較短，未來兩季的定期存款到期金額為 23 億美元，平均利率為 4.95%。很高興看到這樣的成熟度概況，因為已經發生了削減，並且 2025 年還有進一步削減的潛力。在右下角，我們顯示了每月的總存款成本。請注意自 6 月以來下降了 39 個基點。

Veritex has done a good job in preparing for and executing on deposit pricing in a falling rate environment. The Fed cut rates by 100 basis points in the last two quarters of the year and our interest-bearing transaction accounts declined by 80 basis points from June 30 to December 31, and 80% beta. Similarly, total interest-bearing deposit accounts declined by 66 basis points from the end of Q2 to the end of Q4. 2024 was a successful year in deposits with all our growth coming from our core lines of business. These deposits carrying an interest cost is approximately 170 basis points below our other more expensive funding options.

Veritex 在利率下降的環境下做好存款定價的準備和執行工作，做得很好。聯準會在今年最後兩季降息100個基點，我們的計息交易帳戶從6月30日至12月31日下降了80個基點，貝塔值下降了80%。同樣，從第二季末到第四季末，總計息存款帳戶減少了 66 個基點。 2024 年是存款業務成功的一年，我們的所有成長均來自核心業務。這些存款的利息成本比我們其他更昂貴的融資選擇低約 170 個基點。

In Q4, this allowed us to reduce brokered CDs by $254 million, public funds by $233 million and 2x a decline with over $100 million in deposits which carries the highest rate in the entire bank. The remixing of deposits is a key strategic priority as we go through 2025 and beyond. On Slide 13, net interest income decreased by $4 million in Q4, positively impacting the results with lower deposit yields, improved deposit mix and higher debt securities volumes and yields. These were offset by lower floating rate asset yields lower average loan volume and interest reversals on problem loans. The net interest margin decreased 10 basis points from Q3 to 3.20%.

在第四季度，這使我們能夠減少 2.54 億美元的經紀存單、2.33 億美元的公共資金，以及 2 倍的下降，其中超過 1 億美元的存款利率是整個銀行中最高的。存款重新混合是我們 2025 年及以後的關鍵策略重點。在投影片 13 上，第四季淨利息收入減少了 400 萬美元，對業績產生了正面影響，存款收益率降低，存款結構改善，債務證券交易量和收益率上升。但這些影響被較低的浮動利率資產收益率、較低的平均貸款金額以及不良貸款的利息逆轉所抵消。淨利差較第三季下降10個基點至3.20%。

As you look at our interest rate sensitivity, note that our down 100 basis point rate shock is at 2.55%, down from 4.16% over the last year, a 39% improvement as we work to make the Veritex balance sheet more rate neutral. We believe the NIM has dropped in Q4 and should be in the range of 3.25% to 3.30% in Q1, assuming no Fed cuts during the quarter. Keep in mind the following three things: one, the repayment of the $75 million in sub debt in February of 2025, which is accruing in SOFR plus 347 basis points. We filed an 8-K, but should have also called it out in the earnings release. Restructuring of the investment portfolio in Q4 and the time lag on the repricing of the time deposits.

當您查看我們的利率敏感度時，請注意，我們的下行 100 個基點利率衝擊為 2.55%，低於去年的 4.16%，隨著我們努力使 Veritex 資產負債表更加利率中性，這一數字提高了 39%。我們認為，第四季淨利差已經下降，假設聯準會在本季不降息，那麼第一季的淨利差應該在 3.25% 至 3.30% 之間。請記住以下三件事：第一，2025 年 2 月償還 7,500 萬美元的次級債務，該債務按 SOFR 加 347 個基點累積。我們提交了 8-K 報表，但也應該在收益報告中提及這一點。第四季投資組合重組和定期存款重新定價的時間落後。

Slide 14 shows certain metrics on our investment portfolio. The key takeaways: It's only 11.6% of assets, the duration is 3.6 years and 88% of the portfolio is held in AFS. Finally on this slide, you see a snapshot of our securities loss trade completed in the fourth quarter. The yield pickup on $189 million of traded volume is 178 basis points, and the earn back of the loss will be just under 1.4 years. Slide 15.

投影片 14 展示了我們投資組合的某些指標。關鍵要點：它僅佔資產的 11.6%，期限為 3.6 年，88% 的投資組合由 AFS 持有。最後，在這張投影片上，您可以看到我們在第四季完成的證券損失交易的快照。1.89 億美元交易量的收益率為 178 個基點，損失的彌補時間將略低於 1.4 年。幻燈片 15。

Operating noninterest income increased $1.3 million to $14.5 million. The increase was driven by the best quarter of the year in our government-guaranteed loan business, partially offset by lower loan fees and lower OREO rental income. The $1 million increase in operating expenses for the quarter was a function of higher professional and regulatory fees and data processing and software. Recognizing the need to improve our operating leverage and efficiency, Veritex in the second quarter engaged with a national consulting firm with extensive banking expertise to look at all aspects of the company. This review is consisted of staffing, operational processes and technology.

營業非利息收入增加 130 萬美元，達到 1,450 萬美元。這一增長是由我們政府擔保貸款業務今年表現最好的一個季度推動的，但被貸款費用的降低和奧利奧租金收入的降低部分抵消。本季營運費用增加 100 萬美元，是由於專業和監管費用以及數據處理和軟體費用增加。有鑑於提高營運槓桿和效率的必要性，Veritex 在第二季與一家擁有豐富銀行專業知識的全國性顧問公司合作，對公司的各個方面進行審查。此次審查包括人員配備、營運流程和技術。

We've already realized a 19% rate reduction in certain technology vendor contracts, other key contracts are in scope for renewal in 2025 and beyond. Two other areas where we benchmark poorly include treasury management and commercial banking. We've engaged the firm to help us review our treasury management product line and pricing structure and to help us complete the total commercial lending business model review. To wrap up my comments, I see a lot of positives. The balance sheet is in a much stronger position with excess liquidity, lower CRE and ADC concentrations, higher capital and improved credit metrics.

我們已經實現了某些技術供應商合約 19% 的費率降低，其他關鍵合約將在 2025 年及以後續簽。我們的基準較差的另外兩個領域包括資金管理和商業銀行業務。我們聘請該公司幫助我們審查我們的資金管理產品線和定價結構，並幫助我們完成整體商業貸款業務模式審查。總結一下我的評論，我看到了很多正面的方面。資產負債表狀況更強勁，流動性過剩，CRE 和 ADC 集中度降低，資本增加，信貸指標改善。

We have reduced reliance on unattractively priced deposits. Our teams are stronger in almost every area of the bank, and we're in great markets. [indiscernible] and Houston, it's hard to do better than that. Also, there's still things we need to work on, though. Continuing the trend in improving the credit risk profile, remixing the deposit portfolio and disciplined loan growth and continuing to build out our fee businesses with growth expected in deposit fees, card revenue, customer swaps and government guaranteed income.

我們減少了對價格不具吸引力的存款的依賴。我們的團隊在銀行的幾乎每個領域都更加強大，而且我們處於優秀的市場。 [音頻不清晰] 和休斯頓，很難做得比這更好。不過，我們仍然需要做一些努力。持續改善信用風險狀況的趨勢，重新組合存款組合和有紀律的貸款成長，並繼續擴大我們的費用業務，預計存款費用、卡片收入、客戶掉期和政府擔保收入將有所增長。

It's our expectation that 2025 will produce positive operating leverage. This will be driven by an improved NIM, positive loan growth and stronger fee revenues partially offset by moderate expense growth. Operator, we'll now take questions.

我們預計 2025 年將產生正的經營槓桿。這將受到淨利差改善、貸款成長和費用收入增加的推動，但部分被適度的支出成長所抵消。接線員，我們現在來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Stephen Scouten, Piper Sandler.

史蒂芬·斯考頓，派珀·桑德勒。

Hey, thank you. Good morning everyone. Malcolm, I think you said in the release, obviously, that 2025 will be more about back to growing profitability. I think you said earlier here, the target being 1% ROA. I think I heard you say in 2025 and beyond. So just kind of wanted to confirm how you're thinking about reaching that 1% ROA and kind of the potential timing there? And then what you think the biggest driver of that profitability improvement will be in the year ahead or biggest drivers if there's multiple.

嘿，謝謝你。大家早安。馬爾科姆，我想您在新聞稿中顯然說過，2025 年將更多地關注盈利能力的恢復增長。我想您之前說過，目標是 1% ROA。我想我聽到您說過 2025 年及以後。所以只是想確認一下您是如何考慮達到 1% 的 ROA 以及實現該目標的潛在時機？那麼，您認為未來一年獲利能力提升的最大驅動力是什麼，或者如果有多個驅動力的話，最大的驅動力是什麼。

Yes. You heard me correct. We do believe it's 2025. Q3 is probably a good quarter to hit that number. the drivers of that's going to be loan growth and repricing on the deposit side.

是的。你沒聽錯。我們確實相信是 2025 年。第三季可能是達到這一數字的一個好季度。推動這一進程的因素將是貸款成長和存款方面的重新定價。

We continue to see some good movement there. The headwind that Terry and I both mentioned, was just the payoff number. If you recall, we had such strong growth back in '21, '22 that now those are coming mature and those payoffs are coming. We're not going to go back to the [320] range in CRE. And so there's going to be more reliance on the C&I side.

我們繼續看到那裡的一些良好動向。特里和我都提到的逆風只是回報數字。如果你還記得的話，我們在 21、22 年實現瞭如此強勁的成長，現在這些成長已經成熟，回報也即將到來。我們不會回到 CRE 的 [320] 範圍。因此，我們將更加依賴 C&I 方面。

But the staff we have and what [Don's] doing on that side of the business, we feel really, really good about where we're headed. It is -- if your opening comment was right. I mean Veritex has been a growth story for most of its career. Obviously, we spent two years remixing this -- redoing the balance sheet. We feel like that work is done, and we can really focus on what we do best.

但是，考慮到我們現有的員工以及唐在業務方面所做的工作，我們對我們的發展方向感到非常非常滿意。是的——如果你的開場白是正確的話。我的意思是，Veritex 在其大部分發展歷程中一直處於成長階段。顯然，我們花了兩年時間重新製作資產負債表。我們覺得工作已經完成了，我們可以真正專注於我們最擅長的事情。

And so I do -- I'm very encouraged and think that we can get there. But Q3 is probably the first quarter you're going to see it and hope to be high enough to where the year average will be around [1].

我確實如此——我感到非常鼓舞並且相信我們能夠實現目標。但第三季度可能是第一個看到這一情況的季度，希望它能達到年平均左右[1]。

Yes, Stephen, Terry, let me jump in. Fees are going to be more important to us this year than they've ever been. That's why you heard me say as I was wrapping up my comments is we're going to continue to build out our fee businesses, whether it's deposit fees, treasury management fees, card revenue, customer swaps, government guaranteed, it's going to be a significant contributor for us. And so I agree with everything Malcolm said, I just didn't want you to lose sight of how important the fee businesses are for us in 2025.

是的，史蒂芬、特里，讓我加入吧。今年，費用對我們來說比以往任何時候都更重要。這就是為什麼你們聽到我在總結發言時說我們將繼續拓展我們的收費業務，無論是存款費、資金管理費、卡收入、客戶掉期還是政府擔保，這些都將為我們帶來重大貢獻。因此，我同意馬爾科姆所說的一切，我只是不想讓你忽視收費業務對我們 2025 年的重要性。

Which has actually gotten off to a pretty good start with two really nice relationships on the fee side that we've already [already float]. So I hope that helps answer the question.

事實上，我們已經在費用方面與兩家公司建立了良好的關係[已經浮動]。我希望這有助於回答這個問題。

It does for sure. And then kind of on the loan growth front, I mean, obviously, as you said, you're facing pretty big headwinds still from some payoffs and that's understandable, probably beneficial to the balance sheet. But what are you seeing so far in terms of any inflections from your customers in terms of pipeline growth ex the CRE book or kind of what gives you confidence, whether it's mortgage warehouse or other that you can see that inflection kind of towards the back half of the year?

確實如此。然後就貸款成長方面而言，我的意思是，顯然，正如你所說，你仍然面臨著來自一些回報的巨大阻力，這是可以理解的，可能對資產負債表有利。但是，就您的客戶而言，到目前為止，在通路成長（例如 CRE 帳簿）方面，您看到什麼變化，或者是什麼讓您有信心，無論是抵押貸款倉庫還是其他，您是否可以看到下半年出現這種變化？

I mean, actually, the production side of our business has been really strong. The pipelines are as strong as they've ever been. I had a director ask me about, well, how much real estate activity is really going on. Well, I can tell you, in the state of Texas, it's pretty strong. And the underwriting is continued to be pretty stringent on the bank side.

我的意思是，實際上，我們業務的生產方面一直非常強勁。這些管道和以前一樣堅固。一位主管曾問我，房地產活動到底有多少。嗯，我可以告訴你，在德克薩斯州，它相當強大。銀行方面的承保仍然非常嚴格。

I mean, we're seeing deals with 45% equity in them, pretty regular, as most things go, competitive juices get flowing, you're going to see that 45% go to 40% and probably get to 35%. Now we're not going to dumb down our credit underwriting. But the activity is still very, very stout I mean we have to do, call it, [$1.4 billion] in new loans on the real estate side this year just to stay even. And we feel pretty confident we'll be able to do that.

我的意思是，我們看到的都是股權佔 45% 的交易，這很常見，隨著大多數事情的發展，競爭力不斷增強，你會看到 45% 上升到 40%，甚至可能達到 35%。現在我們不會降低我們的信用承保水準。但活動仍然非常非常強勁，我的意思是，我們今年必須在房地產方面發放 14 億美元新貸款才能保持平衡。我們非常有信心我們能夠做到這一點。

Yeah, I'm sorry. Again there's a lot of strength, Stephen, in the fourth quarter on the production side. If you annualize Q4 loan production, it's 50% bigger than the full year. But some of that's been in the ADC side, which does start to fund up for 6 months, 9 months. So we can see that it's coming but we are still going to have that. So that's -- we're seeing it because the Q4 production was way stronger than the first three quarters of the year and so -- and pipelines continue to build, so anyway.

是的，我很抱歉。史蒂芬，第四季在生產方面再次表現出很大的實力。如果將第四季的貸款產量按年化計算，則比全年高出 50%。但其中一部分資金已投入 ADC 方面，並開始為 6 個月或 9 個月的資金提供資金。所以我們可以看到它的到來，但我們仍然會擁有它。所以，我們看到這種情況是因為第四季的產量比今年前三個季度強勁得多，而且管道仍在繼續建設。

Yeah. No, that's great color. And then just last thing for me. On the $1.5 billion in maturing CDs in the first quarter, I think they were a little over 5.02% on the average. What do you think you'll be able to put those back on the books at? And what would you think is like a viable retention rate of those customers as you lower those rates?

是的。不，那顏色真棒。這對我來說只是最後一件事。對於第一季到期的 15 億美元 CD，我認為平均利率略高於 5.02%。您認為您能以什麼方式將這些內容重新寫入書中？當您降低這些費率時，您認為這些客戶的可行保留率是多少？

I'm going to let Will take that question.

我讓威爾來回答這個問題。

Hi, Stephen. Thanks, terry. Yes. So far, in Q1, 2025, we've been playing on new CDs at [ 424 ] rate. And we've seen -- we've experienced really good retention.

你好，史蒂芬。謝謝，特里。是的。到目前為止，到 2025 年第一季度，我們的新 CD 播放速度為 [ 424 ]。我們已經看到——我們的保留率確實很高。

Some of that -- we're seeing some migration out of CDs into money market and other products, but in terms of overall retention that we need.

我們看到一些資金從 CD 轉向貨幣市場和其他產品，但就整體保留而言，這是我們所需要的。

Great, extremely helpful. I will jump back in the queue. Thanks so much.

太棒了，非常有幫助。我將重新回到隊列中。非常感謝。

Thank you listening.

謝謝您的聆聽。

Matt Olney, Stephens.

馬特·奧爾尼、史蒂芬斯。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. On the comment about positive operating leverage for 2025, I think you mentioned to expect moderate expense growth, just any more color about expenses for 2025.

嘿，謝謝。早安.關於 2025 年正營運槓桿的評論，我認為您提到預計費用會適度增長，只是對 2025 年費用有更多的描述。

Low to mid-single digits, okay?

低到中等個位數，可以嗎？

And then going back to the loan growth comment.

然後回到貸款成長評論。

I'm just going to say so if you get so you get some disciplined loan growth, some NIM expansion and good fee execution, we feel good about the opportunity to really get to positive operating leverage with that type of expense growth.

我只是想說，如果你獲得了一些有紀律的貸款增長、一些 NIM 擴張和良好的費用執行，我們對通過這種費用增長真正獲得正運營槓桿的機會感到高興。

Got it. Okay. And then on the -- going back to the loan growth discussion, I think you mentioned the paydowns obviously severe in 2024. It sounds like that will continue for at least for a portion of 2025. Just any more color on when you think that could inflect or at least slow down to allow the net loan balance to start to grow throughout the year?

知道了。好的。然後——回到貸款增長討論，我想你提到了 2024 年的還款顯然很嚴重。聽起來這種情況至少會持續到 2025 年的一部分。您認為什麼時候會出現變化或至少減緩，從而允許淨貸款餘額在全年開始增長，您能提供更多資訊嗎？

Our projections or our forecast right now look like the heaviest piece of those payoffs come in the back half of the year. But again, those are [paths] are a little bit harder to predict. But actually, we've done a pretty good job at that. I see the first quarter it's going to be pretty stable at best. And then with these pipelines that Terry just discussed, I do see some of that to start to fund up.

根據我們目前的預測，這些收益中最豐厚的部分將在今年下半年實現。但同樣，這些[路徑]有點難以預測。但實際上，我們在這方面做得相當好。我認為第一季的情況最好是相當穩定的。然後，透過特里剛才討論的這些管道，我確實看到其中一些開始獲得資金。

I see our commercial business is starting to get stronger on the pipeline side. So I expect that we're going to start seeing some growth in the second quarter. But overall, Matt, I think it's probably going to be a low to single middle digits probably for the year. But again, hard to predict where all those payoffs are coming, but they're coming.

我看到我們的商業業務在管道方面開始變得更加強大。因此我預計我們將在第二季開始看到一些成長。但總體而言，馬特，我認為今年的成長率很可能處於低位數到中等個位數之間。但同樣，很難預測所有這些回報將從何而來，但它們確實會到來。

And that's assuming nothing really -- if anything were to really happen significant with the Fed and rates, especially long-term rates failed, it could accelerate that.

這實際上假設什麼都沒有——如果聯準會和利率真的發生重大變化，特別是長期利率失敗，它可能會加速這一進程。

It could.

有可能。

But we don't expect that. I'm just saying that's the wildcard really.

但我們並不期望如此。我只是說這確實是個通配符。

Yes.

是的。

You don't know.

你不知道。

All right guys. Thanks for your help.

好的，夥計們。感謝您的幫助。

Thanks, Matt.

謝謝，馬特。

Mark Shutley, KBW.

馬克舒特利（Mark Shutley），KBW。

Hey, good morning. So on the deposit side, like you said, there is some good funding remix kind of out of CDs, but there's also a noninterest-bearing decline in the quarter. And I was wondering if you could kind of talk about the dynamics at play there and where you think that noninterest-bearing kind of settles after the quarter?

嘿，早安。因此，在存款方面，就像您所說的那樣，有一些來自 CD 的良好資金組合，但本季無息資金也出現了下降。我想知道您是否可以談談其中的動態，以及您認為無息收入在本季後會如何穩定？

Sure. Yes, this is Will. Thanks for the question. Look, this quarter, we had some seasonal fluctuations of tax and insurance payments for mortgage escrow accounts. We also exited an expensive ECR deposit relationship that was paying around Fed funds which that was intentional.

當然。是的，這是威爾。謝謝你的提問。你看，本季度，我們的抵押貸款託管帳戶的稅收和保險支付出現了一些季節性波動。我們也終止了昂貴的 ECR 存款關係，該關係以聯邦基金為支付手段，這是有意為之。

So when you look at our noninterest bearing on some of those escrow accounts, we do pay an ECR that should definitely flow through the deposit costs line item. And so this was planned, this is anticipated in and several facets that actually improves our earnings. And so seasonality, where do I expect it? It will build back up and range between 21% and 23% for the rest of the year.

因此，當您查看我們對某些託管帳戶的非利息負擔時，我們確實支付了 ECR，這肯定會流經存款成本項目。所以這是有計劃的，這是預期的，並且從多個方面實際上可以提高我們的收益。那麼季節性，我預計它會在哪裡出現？今年剩餘時間內，比率將回升至 21% 至 23% 之間。

Okay, thanks. That's helpful. And then maybe switching over to the government guaranteed side. Obviously, that was really strong this quarter. I know that business is kind of lumpy and can be difficult to project, but is there any additional color you can give to sort of help us model that in 2025?

好的，謝謝。這很有幫助。然後也許會轉向政府擔保的面向。顯然，本季的表現非常強勁。我知道這個產業的發展有點不穩定，很難預測，但是您能否提供一些額外的資訊來幫助我們預測 2025 年的產業發展？

I would just make two comments. One, well -- three, We're off to a good start in '25; two, premiums are holding in very, very well; and three, our pipelines and business production is strongest they've ever been. Especially in the SBA space. He talked about how we're trying to rebalance and almost preadvance that the USDA business. But overall, we're really encouraged by what we're seeing.

我只想發表兩點評論。第一，嗯——第三，我們在25年有了一個良好的開端；二、保費保持得非常好；第三，我們的管道和業務產量達到了前所未有的強勁。尤其是在 SBA 領域。他談到了我們如何努力重新平衡並幾乎領先美國農業部的業務。但總體而言，我們所看到的一切都讓我們深受鼓舞。

The team is doing a great job. And so we're pretty bullish.

該團隊表現出色。因此我們非常樂觀。

Great Well, that's it for me. Thanks for taking my question.

很好，對我來說就這樣了。感謝您回答我的問題。

Tim Mitchell, Raymond James.

提姆米切爾、雷蒙詹姆斯。

Hey, good morning guys. I want to start on credit. It's nice to see the continued improvement in criticized and special mention, but it looks like there was some migration into NPAs. Just how are you thinking about credit moving forward? And what should we kind of expect for a net charge-off ratio in 2025?

嘿，大家早安。我想賒帳開始。很高興看到批評和特別提名方面繼續改善，但看起來有一些向 NPA 的遷移。您如何看待信貸未來的發展？那麼，我們對 2025 年的淨沖銷率應該有何預期呢？

Yes. I mean, listen, I think we did a decent job in managing a bunch of stuff out and took a charge here or there to help assist in that. We did, I think, 21 basis points in charge-offs for '24. Can we expect to probably be in that range for '25. It could be a little better, it could be a little bit worse, but that's a pretty good range, about 20 bps going forward.

是的。我的意思是，聽著，我認為我們在管理一堆東西方面做得不錯，並且在這裡或那裡承擔了責任來幫助解決這些問題。我認為，我們在 24 年的沖銷中確實增加了 21 個基點。我們能否預期 25 年可能會處於這個範圍？可能會好一點，也可能會差一點，但這是一個相當好的範圍，未來大約會上升 20 個基點。

But overall, I mean, you brought up the credit piece and just what Curtis and his teams have done at moving this stuff out has been incredible. And there's still some more movement to do. Recall, we only got this job back in March of last year. So in a fairly short order, we've moved into a good [flex]. So the good news is we've kind of gotten rid of the surprises, and we know it's coming down the pipe, and we're managing it much earlier than we've ever had before.

但總的來說，我的意思是，你提到了功勞，而柯蒂斯和他的團隊在搬運這些東西方面所做的工作確實令人難以置信。還有一些工作要做。回想一下，我們是去年三月才得到這份工作。因此，在相當短的時間內，我們進入了一個好的[彈性]。因此，好消息是我們已經擺脫了意外，我們知道它即將發生，而且我們比以往任何時候都更早處理它。

So again, we're very confident that it continues to get better going forward.

因此，我們非常有信心，未來情況會繼續好轉。

Awesome. And then back to the margin. I think you said 325 to 330 here in the first quarter. I understand the bulk of that CD maturity is in the first quarter, but there's still some opportunity past it. I mean assuming rates are relatively stable, is it fair to assume the margin can continue to grind a little higher kind of through the rest of the year?

驚人的。然後回到邊緣。我認為您說的是第一季的 325 到 330。我知道大部分的存單到期日是在第一季度，但之後仍然有一些機會。我的意思是，假設利率相對穩定，那麼假設利潤率在今年剩餘時間內會繼續略微走高是否公平？

Yes. I think given no more rate changes, I think we will see continued expansion. We do have a hedge that matures at the end of Q1. That's on $250 million of our money market accounts at 42 basis points. So there will be a little bit of a headwind from that, but we expect the things that Terry mentioned with sub debt rolling off with what we've done on the securities portfolio and continued improvement on the deposit side to see -- to drive positive NIM for the whole year.

是的。我認為，只要不再調整利率，我們就會看到持續擴張。我們確實有一個在第一季末到期的對沖。這是我們貨幣市場帳戶中的 2.5 億美元，利率為 42 個基點。因此，這會帶來一些阻力，但我們預計，特里提到的次級債務的減少，加上我們在證券投資組合方面所做的努力以及存款方面的持續改善，將推動全年淨息差為正。

Awesome. Alright. Well, thanks for taking my questions.

驚人的。好吧。好的，感謝您回答我的問題。

Ahmad Hasan, D.A. Davidson.

艾哈邁德·哈桑，D.A.戴維森。

Hey, good morning guys, [Mahaan] on for [Gary Tenner]. Appreciate the December deposit cost detail, can you provide a spot rate as of 12/31?

嘿，大家早安，[Mahaan] 繼續[加里·坦納]。感謝您提供 12 月份的存款成本明細，您能提供截至 12 月 31 日的現貨匯率嗎？

Yes. Spot rates for deposits as of 12/31 is interest-bearing [$399] and for total [$319].

是的。截至 12 月 31 日的存款即期利率為計息利率 [399 美元]，總利率[319美元]。

And on the slide 11, how much of the $820 million out of [Fed] balance is ADC versus CRE? And any geographic concentration there?

在第 11 張投影片上，[Fed] 餘額中的 8.2 億美元有多少是 ADC，有多少是 CRE？那裡有地理集中嗎？

The [out of] states up there, it's the $820 million of the [ $1.61 billion ]. So it's 80% of it, give or take. No particular state concentration that I'm aware of. And we've not been -- we're not aware of any issues with respect to California or it's [correct].

那裡的州外，有 8.2 億美元的[16.1億美元]。所以大概是 80% 左右。據我所知，沒有特定的州集中度。我們還沒有——我們不知道與加州有關的任何問題，或它的[正確的]。

That's correct.

沒錯。

And great to see the SBA and USDA loan pick up the gain on sales takeup there. Any thoughts around that business line heading into 2025?

很高興看到 SBA 和 USDA 貸款在那裡帶來了銷售收益。您對 2025 年該業務線的發展有何看法？

Nothing better than what I've already said.

沒有什麼比我已經說過的更好的了。

Very positive, lots of momentum going forward. We've combined the two businesses, so they're feeding off of each other. Again, premiums are holding in there. Pipelines are super strong. So we're pretty bullish on 2025 on those government guaranteed business.

非常積極，前進的勢頭強勁。我們將這兩項業務合併起來，這樣它們就能互相促進。再次，保費保持穩定。管道非常堅固。因此，我們對 2025 年政府擔保業務的前景非常樂觀。

But to the extent it's USDA, it will be lumpy, so -- but for the year -- and that's the way we tend to think about this business is the full year. Don't get frustrated with lumpiness when it's a USDA trade.

但就美國農業部而言，這將是不穩定的，所以 - 但就全年而言 - 這就是我們傾向於認為這項業務是全年的。當涉及美國農業部貿易時，不要因不順暢而感到沮喪。

Right. That makes sense. Thank you for taking my questions.

正確的。這很有道理。感謝您回答我的問題。

Thank you. And that does conclude today's Q&A session. I would like to go ahead and turn the call over to Malcolm for closing remarks.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。我想繼續，並將電話轉給馬爾科姆，請他做最後發言。

Yes, ma'am. Thank you. So I want to close today with a management update. Six years ago, we closed the Green Bank transaction. And at the time, we're blessed to have Terry Earley become our Chief Financial Officer.

是的，女士。謝謝。所以今天我想以管理更新來結束今天的演講。六年前，我們完成了 Green Bank 交易。同時，我們很榮幸能夠邀請特里·厄爾利 (Terry Earley) 擔任我們的財務長。

Terry has been the ultimate team player and partner to me and the entire Veritex family. His knowledge, expertise, counsel and with them to our company cannot be measured. [Beith] he just made us a better bank. Terry Sherry will be retiring this summer on June 30, but he will not be leaving us entirely. He will become a part of our bank board as well as entering in a consulting agreement assisting in the finance area and assisting in the transition.

對我和整個 Veritex 家族來說，Terry 一直是最優秀的團隊成員和合作夥伴。他的知識、專業技能、建議以及對我們公司的貢獻是無法衡量的。 [Beith] 他只是讓我們成為了更好的銀行。特里·雪利 (Terry Sherry) 將於今年夏天 6 月 30 日退休，但他不會完全離開我們。他將成為我們銀行董事會的成員，並簽訂諮詢協議，協助財務領域和過渡。

Our new CFO will be Will Holford, who many of you who already know, Will has been with Veritex for 13 years, serving in all areas of finance. We are very excited for both Terry and Will in their new roles. Thanks for your time today, and we look forward to speaking to you soon.

我們的新任財務長將是威爾·霍爾福德 (Will Holford)，你們中的許多人已經認識他，威爾已在 Veritex 工作了 13 年，服務於所有財務領域。我們對特里和威爾的新角色感到非常興奮。感謝您今天抽出時間，我們期待很快與您交談。

Thank you all for joining today's conference call. This does conclude today's meeting. You all may disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的電話會議。今天的會議到此結束。你們都可以斷開連線。