Versabank (VBNK) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to VersaBank's Fourth Quarter and Year-End Fiscal 2022 Financial Results Conference Call.

早安，女士們，先生們。歡迎參加 VersaBank 2022 年第四季和年末財務業績電話會議。

This morning, VersaBank issued a news release reporting its financial results for the fourth quarter and fiscal year ended October 31. That news release, along with the bank's financial statements and supplemental financial information are available on the bank's website in the Investor Relations section as well as on SEDAR and EDGAR.

今天上午，VersaBank 發布了一份新聞稿，報告了截至10 月31 日的第四季度和財年的財務業績。該新聞稿以及該銀行的財務報表和補充財務資訊也可在該銀行網站的投資者關係部分獲取就像 SEDAR 和 EDGAR 一樣。

Please note that in addition to the telephone dialing, VersaBank is webcasting this morning's conference call. The webcast is listen only. If you are listening on the webcast, but wish to ask a question in the Q&A session following Mr. Taylor's presentation, please dial into the conference line, the details of which are included in this morning's news release and on the bank's website. For those participating in today's call by telephone, the accompanying slide presentation is available on the bank's website. Also, today's call will be archived for replay both by telephone and via the Internet beginning approximately 1 hour following the completion of the call. Details on how to access the replays are available in this morning's news release I would like to remind our listeners that the statements about future events made on this call are forward-looking in nature and are based on certain assumptions and analysis made by VersaBank management. Actual results could differ materially from our expectations due to various material risks and uncertainties associated with VersaBank's businesses. Please refer to VersaBank's forward-looking statement advisory in today's presentation. I would now like to turn the call over to David Taylor, President and Chief Executive Officer of VersaBank. Please go ahead, Mr. Taylor.

請注意，除了電話撥號外，VersaBank 還對今天早上的電話會議進行網路直播。網路廣播僅供收聽。如果您正在收聽網路廣播，但希望在泰勒先生演講後的問答環節中提出問題，請撥打會議熱線，詳細資訊包含在今天上午的新聞稿和銀行網站上。對於那些透過電話參加今天電話會議的人來說，隨附的幻燈片簡報可在銀行網站上取得。此外，今天的通話將被存檔，以便在通話結束後約 1 小時開始透過電話和網路重播。有關如何存取重播的詳細信息，請參閱今天早上的新聞稿。我想提醒我們的聽眾，本次電話會議中有關未來事件的陳述本質上是前瞻性的，並且基於VersaBank 管理層所做的某些假設和分析。由於與 VersaBank 業務相關的各種重大風險和不確定性，實際結果可能與我們的預期有重大差異。請參閱今天簡報中 VersaBank 的前瞻性聲明諮詢。我現在想將電話轉給 VersaBank 總裁兼執行長 David Taylor。請繼續，泰勒先生。

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's call. With me is Shawn Clarke, our Chief Financial Officer. Before I begin, I'd like to remind you that our financial results are reported and will be discussed on this call in our reporting currency of Canadian dollars. For those interested, we provide U.S. dollar translations for most of our financial numbers in our standard investor presentation, which will be updated and available on our website shortly.

大家早安，感謝您參加我們今天的電話會議。和我在一起的是我們的財務長肖恩·克拉克。在開始之前，我想提醒您，我們的財務表現以加幣為報告貨幣進行報告和討論。對於有興趣的人，我們在標準投資者簡報中提供了大部分財務數據的美元翻譯，該簡報將很快更新並在我們的網站上提供。

On to our results. A record fourth quarter across each of our key performance metrics, capped off a record year for VersaBank. In our digital banking operations, continued strong year-over-year growth in our point-of-sale loan and lease portfolio drove our loan portfolio to an all-time high of just under $3 billion. That was up 42% as we maintained our overall net interest margin without trading -- or taking any additional credit risk. This drove record revenue, record net interest income, record net income, save for one outsized quarter in 2017 due to a large tax recovery.

看看我們的結果。第四季各項關鍵績效指標均創歷史新高，為 VersaBank 創紀錄的一年畫上了圓滿的句號。在我們的數位銀行業務中，銷售點貸款和租賃組合持續強勁的同比增長推動我們的貸款組合達到略低於 30 億美元的歷史新高。由於我們在不進行交易或承擔任何額外信用風險的情況下維持了整體淨利差，因此這一數字增長了 42%。這推動了創紀錄的收入、創紀錄的淨利息收入、創紀錄的淨利潤，除了 2017 年因大量稅收追回而導致的一個特大季度之外。

Additionally, the cybersecurity services component of DRTC, had a strong fourth quarter and remains profitable. Importantly, we achieved net income despite the significant transitory expenses incurred during the year on our account of strategic growth initiatives, the returns of which we expect to begin to realize in fiscal [year] 2023. All of this positions VersaBank for continued growth in 2023, comfortable in the knowledge that our bank has a track record of performing even a little better during economic slowdowns. I'll discuss this more in a few minutes.

此外，DRTC 的網路安全服務部分在第四季度表現強勁，並保持獲利。重要的是，儘管我們的策略成長舉措在這一年中產生了大量臨時費用，但我們仍實現了淨利潤，我們預計將在2023 財年開始實現回報。所有這些都使VersaBank 在2023 年實現持續成長，我們很滿意，因為我們知道我們銀行在經濟放緩期間的表現甚至更好。幾分鐘後我將進一步討論這個問題。

Looking more closely at our performance. The fourth quarter was highlighted by the highest ever levels of revenue, net interest income and net income, even with a dampening effect on our bottom line of the transitory investments and multiple strategic growth initiatives we made throughout the year. Combined, these investments totaled $1.8 million, the vast majority of which will run off during the current quarter. As Shawn will discuss, we will also experience a temporary elevated provision for taxes in Q4 which further dampened our net income by $1.1 million, and which we expect to reduce early in fiscal 2023.

更仔細地審視我們的表現。第四季的收入、淨利息收入和淨利潤均創歷史新高，儘管我們全年的臨時投資和多項策略成長舉措的底線受到了抑制。這些投資總計 180 萬美元，其中絕大多數將在本季耗盡。正如肖恩將討論的那樣，我們還將在第四季度經歷暫時增加的稅收撥備，這進一步使我們的淨利潤減少 110 萬美元，我們預計將在 2023 財年初減少這一數額。

Fourth quarter performance was driven mainly by continued outsized growth in the Canadian point-of-sale financing business, which increased 11% sequentially to the end of the year and 74% higher than fiscal 2021. Again now we'll note that we achieved this growth with essentially no impact on net interest margin and without relaxing our stringent credit policy.

第四季的業績主要是由加拿大銷售點融資業務的持續大幅增長推動的，截至年底，該業務環比增長了11%，比2021 財年高出74%。現在我們再次注意到，我們實現了這一目標成長對淨利差基本上沒有影響，也沒有放鬆我們嚴格的信貸政策。

Similarly, for the full fiscal year, the outside growth in our Canadian point-of-sale drove record revenue, net interest income and net income. And like the fourth quarter record net income, was dampened by expenses related to the transitory strategic investments, which for the year totaled $5.2 million, as well the $1.1 million elevated tax in Q4. Again, these investments will substantially dissipate throughout Q1 of fiscal 2023 and our tax provision will reduce early in 2023.

同樣，在整個財年，我們加拿大銷售點的外部成長推動了創紀錄的收入、淨利息收入和淨收入。與第四季度創紀錄的淨利潤一樣，該淨利潤也受到與臨時戰略投資相關的支出（全年總計 520 萬美元）以及第四季度 110 萬美元的增稅的影響。同樣，這些投資將在 2023 財年第一季大幅消散，我們的稅務撥備將在 2023 年初減少。

I'd like to provide a quick update on our planned acquisition of Minnesota-based Stearns Bank Holdingford, a fully operational OCC Chartered National U.S. Bank. As I discussed on our last quarterly call, this acquisition is a transformational next step in VersaBank's long-term growth strategy that will enable us to bring our track record of innovative digital banking solutions to address unmet needs to one of the world's largest banking markets. Specifically, this acquisition will enable us to broadly roll out our receivable purchase program in the underserved U.S. market, which has been so successful in Canada, where we call it our point-of-sale financing business.

我想快速介紹一下我們計劃收購總部位於明尼蘇達州的 Stearns Bank Holdingford（一家全面運營的 OCC 特許國民美國銀行）的最新情況。正如我在上一季度電話會議上所討論的那樣，此次收購是VersaBank 長期成長策略的轉型性下一步，將使我們能夠利用我們在創新數位銀行解決方案方面的記錄，解決全球最大銀行市場之一未滿足的需求。具體來說，這項收購將使我們能夠在服務不足的美國市場廣泛推出我們的應收帳款購買計劃，該計劃在加拿大非常成功，我們稱之為我們的銷售點融資業務。

Although the process has taken a little longer than initially thought, I'm pleased to report that earlier this morning, we submitted the requisite filing to the OCC and the Federal Reserve seeking approval of this acquisition. With these filings complete, we can now move ahead with our applications to our Canadian regulators.

儘管這一過程比最初想像的要長一些，但我很高興地向大家報告，今天早上早些時候，我們向 OCC 和美聯儲提交了必要的文件，尋求批准此次收購。完成這些備案後，我們現在可以向加拿大監管機構提出申請。

I'm also pleased to announce that Tom Ridge, former Governor of Pennsylvania and inaugural Secretary of the U.S. Office of Homeland Security has agreed to become Chair of our new U.S. subsidiary, VersaBank USA. We are targeting to close this acquisition early in calendar 2023.

我還很高興地宣布，前賓州州長兼美國國土安全辦公室首任部長湯姆·里奇 (Tom Ridge) 已同意擔任我們新的美國子公司 VersaBank USA 的董事長。我們的目標是在 2023 年初完成此次收購。

On the topic of U.S. receivable purchase program, our first partner, a large North American commercial transportation financing business focused on independent owner operators have continued to expand their business with us, with loans now nearly $50 million. That number would have been even higher. However, we are somewhat constrained in this limited early rollout ahead of completing the U.S. bank acquisition.

在美國應收帳款購買計劃方面，我們的第一個合作夥伴，一家專注於獨立業主運營商的大型北美商業運輸融資公司，繼續與我們擴大業務，目前貸款額已接近 5000 萬美元。這個數字本來會更高。然而，在完成對美國銀行的收購之前，我們在這種有限的早期推出方面受到了一些限制。

Recently, we added a second partner, the Retail Finance division of a $40-plus billion U.S.-based financial services company and expect to begin taking on loans shortly. And we continue to be very encouraged by our discussions we're having with other potential partners in the United States. They are repeatedly confirming our belief that we are a valuable alternative for point-of-sale finances in this $1.8 billion and growing U.S. market.

最近，我們增加了第二個合作夥伴，即一家資產超過 40 億美元的美國金融服務公司的零售金融部門，預計很快就會開始接受貸款。我們與美國其他潛在合作夥伴的討論繼續讓我們深受鼓舞。他們一再證實了我們的信念，在這個價值 18 億美元且不斷成長的美國市場中，我們是銷售點融資的寶貴替代方案。

And finally, before I turn over the call to Shawn, an update on our revolutionary digital deposit receipts. As I discussed last quarter, there has been tremendous amount of turmoil in the sector and heightened the regulatory awareness and scrutiny, which has been further exacerbated by FTX tobacco. The downside of this, of course, is that it has negative repercussions and very broadly in our industry. The upside, at least for us, is that all of these events further underscore the importance of regulation and our belief that we share with some of our regulatory pundits that licensed banks are the right entities to be issuing digital currencies.

最後，在我把電話轉給肖恩之前，我先介紹一下我們革命性的數位存款收據的最新情況。正如我上個季度所討論的，該行業出現了巨大的動盪，監管意識和審查也不斷加強，而 FTX 煙草進一步加劇了這種情況。當然，這樣做的缺點是它會在我們的行業中產生廣泛的負面影響。至少對我們來說，有利的一面是，所有這些事件都進一步強調了監管的重要性，我們相信，我們與一些監管專家一致認為，持牌銀行是發行數位貨幣的正確實體。

With the rapid evolution of the market and the regulatory environment, we made a decision to substantially change our model such that our DDR accounts, our Digital Deposit Receipt accounts, which are essentially e-wallets are hosted by VersaBank as opposed to being hosted by external third party. We are now able to do this through the addition of our Viewer software, a tool developed exclusively for our bank. [In] prove out the new model in November, we initiated an initial pilot program for the new offering, which we are calling CADV. The pilot is restricted to VersaBank's directors, executives, all of whom reside in Canada.

隨著市場和監管環境的快速發展，我們決定大幅改變我們的模式，使我們的 DDR 帳戶、數位存款收據帳戶（本質上是電子錢包）由 VersaBank 託管，而不是由外部託管第三者。現在，我們可以透過添加 Viewer 軟體來實現這一點，該軟體是專為我們銀行開發的工具。 [為了]在 11 月證明新模型，我們啟動了新產品的初步試點計劃，我們稱之為 CADV。該試點僅限於 VersaBank 的董事、高階主管，他們都居住在加拿大。

With this progression to a new model, we'll further extend our time to launch, our DDR program is, as it always has been, a long-term opportunity to grow low-cost deposits. We still have access to abundant low-cost deposits to fuel our growth in Canada. In fact, I will discuss in a moment, we expect to return to robust growth in our bankruptcy deposit channel, resulting from a challenging and potentially more challenging economic environment.

隨著新模式的進展，我們將進一步延長啟動時間，我們的 DDR 計劃一如既往，是增加低成本存款的長期機會。我們仍然可以獲得充足的低成本存款來推動我們在加拿大的成長。事實上，我稍後將討論，由於充滿挑戰且可能更具挑戰性的經濟環境，我們預計破產存款管道將恢復強勁成長。

Finally, I will note that we continue to see some digital currency offerings trickle out here and there. And each and every time we do, we're even more confident with respect to the significant competitive advantages that our offering brings.

最後，我要指出的是，我們繼續看到一些數位貨幣產品不斷湧現。每一次，我們都對我們的產品帶來的顯著競爭優勢更加充滿信心。

I'd now like to turn the call over to Shawn to review our financial results in detail. Shawn?

我現在想把電話轉給肖恩，詳細審查我們的財務表現。肖恩？

Thank you, David, and good morning, everyone. Before I begin, just a quick reminder that our full financial statements and MD&A for the fourth quarter and full fiscal 2022 year are available on our website under the Investor Relations section as well as on SEDAR and on EDGAR. And as David mentioned, all the following numbers are reported in Canadian dollars as per our financial statements, unless otherwise noted.

謝謝大衛，大家早安。在開始之前，請快速提醒您，我們第四季和 2022 財年的完整財務報表和 MD&A 可在我們網站的投資者關係部分以及 SEDAR 和 EDGAR 上取得。正如大衛所提到的，除非另有說明，否則根據我們的財務報表，以下所有數字均以加幣報告。

Starting with our balance sheet. Total assets at the end of the fourth quarter crossed a $3.3 billion mark, up 35% from $2.4 billion at the end of Q4 of last year and up 6% from $3.1 billion at the end of the third quarter of this year. Cash and securities at the end of Q4 were at $230 million or 7% of total assets, down from $272 million or 11% of total assets at the end of Q4 of last year and up from $218 million or 7% of total assets at the end of Q3 of this year.

從我們的資產負債表開始。第四季末總資產突破33億美元大關，比去年第四季末的24億美元成長35%，比今年第三季末的31億美元成長6%。第四季末的現金和證券為2.3 億美元，佔總資產的7%，低於去年第四季末的2.72 億美元，佔總資產的11%，高於去年第四季末的2.18 億美元，佔總資產的7%。今年第三季末。

The year-over-year decrease was the result of the bank deploying cash into higher-yielding lending assets and lower securities over the course of the quarter. Our total loan portfolio at the end of the fourth quarter expanded to another record balance of $2.99 billion, an increase of 42% year-over-year and 6% sequentially, [I'll rate] to sell into its component parts in a moment.

年比下降是由於該銀行在本季度將現金部署到收益較高的貸款資產和較低的證券。第四季末，我們的總貸款組合餘額再創新高，達到 29.9 億美元，年增 42%，環比增長 6%，[我會評價]立即出售其組成部分。

Book value per share increased 7% year-over-year and 2% sequentially to another record of $12.37. These increases were both a function of higher retained earnings resulting from net income growth, partially offset by dividends paid while the year-over-year increase was also impacted by our common share offering in the U.S. last September.

每股帳面價值年增 7%，季增 2%，創下 12.37 美元的新紀錄。這些成長都是淨利潤成長帶來的留存收益增加的結果，部分被支付的股息所抵消，而同比增長也受到我們去年 9 月在美國發行普通股的影響。

Our CET1 ratio was 12%, down from 15.2% at the end of Q4 of last year and down from 12.51% at the end of Q3 of this year. While our leverage ratio at the end of Q4 was 9.8%, down from 12.6% at the same point last year and 10.38% at the end of Q3 of this year. Both our CET1 and leverage ratios remain comfortably above our internal regulatory ratio targets.

我們的CET1比率為12%，低於去年第四季末的15.2%，也低於今年第三季末的12.51%。而第四季末我們的槓桿率為9.8%，低於去年同期的12.6%和今年第三季末的10.38%。我們的 CET1 比率和槓桿比率仍然遠高於我們的內部監管比率目標。

Turning to the income statement. Total consolidated revenue increased 33% year-over-year and 14% sequentially to a record $24.3 million, with the increase being driven primarily by higher net interest income derived from our digital banking operations resulting from the strong growth in our loan portfolio that was discussed earlier. Consolidated net income for Q4 increased 9% year-over-year and 12% sequentially to a record $6.4 million. With the exception of Q1 2017 during which we reported a onetime tax recovery resulting from the amalgamation of the bank and PWC capital in that same period.

轉向損益表。綜合總收入年增 33%，環比增長 14%，達到創紀錄的 2,430 萬美元，增長的主要原因是我們所討論的貸款組合的強勁增長，導致我們的數位銀行業務產生的淨利息收入增加早些時候。第四季合併淨利潤年增 9%，季增 12%，達到創紀錄的 640 萬美元。除 2017 年第一季外，我們報告了同期銀行與普華永道資本合併產生的一次性稅款回收。

Net income for Q4 was reduced by transitory costs totaling $1.8 million, as David mentioned earlier, including the period related to our investments in several strategic growth initiatives, including the U.S. Bank acquisition, the launch of the U.S. version of our point-of-sale offering, our receivable purchase program in preparation for the launch of our Digital Deposit Receipts. We expect these investments to begin to contribute to profitability over the course of fiscal 2023. Net income was also reduced by $1.1 million in incremental tax provisions, which we also expect will reduce in fiscal 2023.

正如David 先前提到的，第四季度的淨利潤因總計180 萬美元的臨時成本而減少，其中包括與我們對多項戰略增長計劃的投資相關的期間，其中包括收購美國銀行、推出美國版銷售點我們的應收帳款購買計劃，為推出數位存款收據做準備。我們預計這些投資將在 2023 財年開始為盈利做出貢獻。淨利潤也因增量稅收撥備而減少 110 萬美元，我們也預計 2023 財年將減少。

Consolidated earnings per share decreased 4% year-over-year to $0.23, with a decrease due primarily to the impact of the issuance of 6.3 million common shares concurrent with the bank's listing on the NASDAQ in September of last year. On a sequential basis, however, consolidated EPS was up 15%. The impact for context, the impact of the transitory strategic investments and higher income tax on our 2022 EPS metric was $0.06 per share and $0.04 per share, respectively.

合併每股盈餘較去年同期下降4%至0.23美元，下降的主因是去年9月該銀行在納斯達克上市同時發行630萬股普通股的影響。然而，從環比來看，合併每股盈餘成長了 15%。背景影響、臨時策略投資和更高的所得稅對我們 2022 年 EPS 指標的影響分別為每股 0.06 美元和每股 0.04 美元。

Primary driver of growth in our loan portfolio was once again our point-of-sale financing business, which increased 74% year-over-year and 11% sequentially, surpassing a $2.2 billion mark. This growth continued to be driven primarily by strong demand for home finance, home improvement, HVAC and auto receivable financing. Our point-of-sale portfolio continues to expand as a proportion of the overall portfolio as per our strategy, representing now 75% of our total loan portfolio as of the end of the fourth quarter, up from 71% at the end of the third quarter.

我們的貸款組合成長的主要驅動力再次是我們的銷售點融資業務，該業務同比增長 74%，環比增長 11%，超過 22 億美元大關。這一成長持續主要受到家庭金融、家居裝修、暖通空調和汽車應收帳款融資的強勁需求所推動。 Our point-of-sale portfolio continues to expand as a proportion of the overall portfolio as per our strategy, representing now 75% of our total loan portfolio as of the end of the fourth quarter, up from 71% at the end of the third四分之一.

Our commercial real estate portfolio decreased 7% year-over-year and 6% sequentially to $759 million at the end of the fourth quarter. As you now have noted for several quarters, management has taken a more cautionary stance with respect to the commercial real estate portfolio due to expected volatility in the valuations within this asset class in a rising interest rate environment as well as concerns related to higher construction costs resulting from supply chain disruptions in a very tight labor market. That said, we remain very comfortable with the risk profile of our commercial real estate portfolio based on our criteria working only with well-established, well-capitalized development partners with excellent track records and restricting transactions to modest on-to-value ratios.

截至第四季末，我們的商業房地產投資組合年減 7%，季減 6%，至 7.59 億美元。正如您在幾個季度中所注意到的，管理層對商業房地產投資組合採取了更加謹慎的立場，因為在利率上升的環境下，該資產類別的估值預計會出現波動，並且對建築成本上升感到擔憂這是由於勞動市場非常緊張導致供應鏈中斷所造成的。也就是說，我們對商業房地產投資組合的風險狀況仍然非常滿意，因為我們的標準只與信譽良好、資本雄厚、業績記錄良好的開發合作夥伴合作，並將交易限制在適度的價值比率。

Turning to the income statement for our digital banking operations. Net interest margin on loans that is excluding cash and securities and other assets decreased 28 basis points or 8% year-over-year and 4 basis points or 1% sequentially to 3.03% due primarily to a shift in the bank's funding mix and rising interest rates over the respective periods as well as the successful execution of our strategy to grow our POS financing portfolio. These factors were partially offset by generally higher yields earned on our lending portfolio during the period, also as a function of rising interest rates.

轉向我們數位銀行業務的損益表。不包括現金、證券和其他資產的貸款淨利差同比下降 28 個基點或 8%，環比下降 4 個基點或 1%，至 3.03%，這主要是由於銀行融資結構的變化和利息上升各個時期的利率以及我們擴大POS 融資組合策略的成功執行。這些因素被我們貸款組合在此期間普遍較高的收益率所部分抵消，這也是利率上升的結果。

Net interest margin for the quarter, which includes the impact of cash, securities and other assets increased 8 basis points or 3% year-over-year and 5 basis points or 2% sequentially to 2.81%.

本季淨利差（包括現金、證券和其他資產的影響）年增 8 個基點或 3%，較上季增加 5 個基點或 2%，至 2.81%。

Non-interest expenses for the quarter were $13.8 million compared to $10.4 million for the same period last year and $13.2 million for Q3 of this year. The year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter increases were substantially due to transitory costs related to the strategic growth investments I described earlier. Investments associated with the acquisition and integration of the operation of the U.S. Bank are anticipated to realize substantially by the end of the first quarter of 2023. The year-over-year and quarter-over-quarter increases were also impacted by higher salary and benefits costs due to increased staffing levels to support expanded revenue-generating business activity across the bank as well as higher costs associated with employee retention in this very tight labor market.

本季非利息支出為 1,380 萬美元，去年同期為 1,040 萬美元，今年第三季為 1,320 萬美元。年比和環比成長很大程度上是由於與我之前描述的策略成長投資相關的暫時成本。與收購和整合美國銀行業務相關的投資預計將在 2023 年第一季末大幅實現。同比和環比增長也受到工資和福利上漲的影響由於增加人員配置水平以支持整個銀行擴大創收業務活動而產生的成本，以及在這個非常緊張的勞動力市場中與員工保留相關的成本增加。

Cost of funds for the fourth quarter was 2.45%, up 114 basis points year-over-year and up 51 basis points sequentially due primarily to our funding that's being comprised of a large proportion of wealth management deposits relative to our lower cost and solvency professional deposits and the impact, of course, of rising interest rates. Insolvency Professional deposit balances contracted slightly in Q4 compared to a year ago despite adding more partners and as we continue to experience historically low bankruptcy activity, which remains well below pre-pandemic levels. During the same period, our wealth management deposits grew 65%.

第四季資金成本為 2.45%，年上升 114 個基點，環比上升 51 個基點，這主要是由於我們的資金主要由理財存款組成，相對於我們的成本和償付能力較低的專業人士當然，還有存款和利率上升的影響。儘管增加了更多合作夥伴，而且破產活動繼續處於歷史低位，仍遠低於大流行前的水平，但第四季度破產專業存款餘額仍較去年同期略有收縮。同期，我們的理財存款增加了65%。

Looking ahead to 2023, we do expect to commercial deposits to grow moderately throughout the year as a function of an increase in the volume of consumer bankruptcy and proposal restructuring proceedings and as the challenging current and forecasted economic environment.

展望 2023 年，我們預計商業存款將在全年溫和增長，這是由於消費者破產和提案重組程序數量的增加以及當前和預測的經濟環境充滿挑戰。

Our provision for credit losses or PCLs in Q4 was again demonstrative of the proven risk mitigation strategies inherent in our lending and credit risk management processes as well as the outstanding credit quality of our current loan portfolio. PCLs in the current quarter were $205,000 compared with a recovery of credit losses in the amount of $279,000 for the same period last year and a PCL of $166,000 for Q3 of this year. The recovery recorded last year was attributable primarily to changes in the bank's lending asset portfolio mix and changes in the forward-looking information used in the bank's credit risk models offset partially by higher lending balances. Sequential change this year was a function primarily of higher lending asset balances and changes in the forward-looking information that we use in our credit risk models, offset partially by changes in the bank's lending asset mix.

我們在第四季度的信用損失或 PCL 撥備再次證明了我們的貸款和信用風險管理流程中固有的經過驗證的風險緩解策略以及我們當前貸款組合的出色信用品質。本季的 PCL 為 205,000 美元，而去年同期的信貸損失收回金額為 279,000 美元，今年第三季的 PCL 為 166,000 美元。去年的復甦主要歸因於銀行貸款資產組合的變化以及銀行信用風險模型中使用的前瞻性資訊的變化，但部分被貸款餘額增加所抵消。今年的連續變化主要是由於貸款資產餘額增加以及我們在信用風險模型中使用的前瞻性資訊的變化造成的，但部分被銀行貸款資產組合的變化所抵消。

Our PCL ratio remains one of the lowest in the Canadian banking industry at an average of 0% over the past 12 quarters. And as David will discuss in a moment, this superior risk profile is expected to serve us well should an economic downturn materialize over the course of 2023. Gross impaired loan balances at October 31, 2022 were $0.3 million, all of which were repaid on November 1, 2022 compared to $1.4 million last quarter and 0 a year ago.

我們的 PCL 比率仍然是加拿大銀行業最低的之一，過去 12 個季度平均為 0%。正如David 稍後將討論的那樣，如果2023 年經濟衰退成為現實，這種優越的風險狀況預計將為我們帶來好處。截至2022 年10 月31 日的總減值貸款餘額為30 萬美元，全部已於11 月償還2022 年 1 月 1 日，上季為 140 萬美元，一年前為 0 美元。

Turning now to DRTC, sales were to generate almost exclusively through our Cybersecurity Services business, Digital Boundary Group increased 33% sequentially decreased 8% year-over-year to $2.8 million due primarily to the timing of service engagements in those respective periods. Gross profit, however, increased 48% sequentially and decreased 19% year-over-year to $1.7 million. The sequential increases were driven primarily by higher pricing charged on services as well as meaningful improvements in DBG's operational efficiency.

現在轉向 DRTC，銷售額幾乎全部透過我們的網路安全服務業務產生，Digital Boundary Group 環比增長 33%，同比下降 8%，至 280 萬美元，這主要是由於各個時期的服務參與時間所致。然而，毛利環比成長 48%，年減 19%，至 170 萬美元。連續成長的主要原因是服務定價上漲以及 DBG 營運效率的顯著提高。

DRTC generated net losses of $0.5 million in the current quarter compared with a net income of $0.5 million in Q4 of last year and a net loss of $0.7 million in Q3 of this year, attributed to the higher gross profits from DBG being partially offset by higher salary and benefit expense associated with employee retention in a highly competitive labor market. I will note here that the net loss for DRTC includes costs associated with strategic technology development investments for our digital banking operations. The operations of DBG on a stand-alone basis continue to be profitable.

DRTC 本季淨虧損 50 萬美元，而去年第四季淨利為 50 萬美元，今年第三季淨虧損為 70 萬美元，原因是 DBG 較高的毛利潤被較高的毛利潤部分抵銷。在競爭激烈的勞動市場中與員工留任相關的薪資和福利費用。我在此要指出的是，DRTC 的淨虧損包括與我們數位銀行業務的策略技術開發投資相關的成本。 DBG的獨立業務持續獲利。

Finally, before I turn the call back to David, in August, we received approval from the TSX to undertake a normal course issuer bid for up to 1.7 million common shares or just over 9.5% of our public float at the time of application. And further, in September, we received approval from the NASDAQ to proceed with an NCIB on that exchange as well. As of October 31 of this year, we have repurchased an aggregate of 195,300 shares under the NCIB program.

最後，在我把電話轉回David 之前，8 月份，我們獲得了多倫多證券交易所的批准，可以按照正常發行人的方式競購最多170 萬股普通股，即申請時公眾持股量的9.5%以上。此外，9 月，我們獲得了納斯達克的批准，在該交易所開展 NCIB。截至今年10月31日，我們已根據NCIB計畫回購了總計195,300股股票。

I'd now like to turn the call back to Dave for some closing remarks. David.

現在我想把電話轉回給戴夫，讓他做一些結束語。大衛。

Thank you, Shawn. Well, we entered 2023 with considerable momentum and confidence in our ability to continue to generate strong growth in our loan portfolio that is in line with pre-2022 levels. We began the year with nearly $3 billion in loans in our Canadian Digital Banking operations, an annual revenue run rate of nearly $100 million. At the same time, both Shawn and I discussed, we expect our non-interest expenses to decline meaningfully as the expenses associated with the acquisition of the U.S. Bank and the setup of our receivable purchase program in the United States come to an end. We expect that that will contribute to profitability margins on revenue that are in line with those prior to making these investments.

謝謝你，肖恩。進入 2023 年，我們充滿動力，對我們的貸款組合繼續實現與 2022 年前水平一致的強勁增長的能力充滿信心。今年年初，我們的加拿大數位銀行業務貸款金額接近 30 億美元，年收入運行率接近 1 億美元。同時，肖恩和我都討論了，隨著與收購美國銀行和在美國建立應收帳款購買計劃相關的費用的結束，我們預計我們的非利息費用將大幅下降。我們預計這將有助於使收入利潤率與進行這些投資之前的水平一致。

To be clear, this is just the starting point for fiscal 2023. Despite forecasts for moderation in consumer spending, we expect to generate continued strong growth in our Canadian Point-of-Sale business. While we expect it would be tough to repeat the 74% year-over-year growth that we saw in 2022, we do expect business with existing partners to expand along the additional -- and to add additional partners, which should contribute to growth of this portfolio in line with the very healthy pre-2022 levels.

需要明確的是，這只是 2023 財年的起點。儘管預測消費者支出將放緩，但我們預計加拿大銷售點業務將持續強勁成長。雖然我們預計很難重複 2022 年 74% 的同比增長，但我們確實預計與現有合作夥伴的業務將繼續擴大，並增加更多合作夥伴，這將有助於增長該投資組合符合2022 年之前非常健康的水平。

We also expect the investments we made in 2022 will provide meaningful additional upside to growth. We continue to be very encouraged by the limited launch of Receivable Purchase Program in the U.S., confirming both the value proposition of the offering and the market opportunity as we continue to plan for a broad launch upon completion of our U.S. Bank acquisition.

我們也預計 2022 年的投資將為成長帶來有意義的額外成長。我們繼續對美國有限推出的應收帳款購買計畫感到非常鼓舞，這證實了該產品的價值主張和市場機會，因為我們繼續計劃在完成美國銀行收購後廣泛啟動。

We expect to see strong profitable growth in revenue and gross profits in our cybersecurity business as both DBG continues to expand its business activities with existing clients while adding new clients. As it grows, we expect our cybersecurity business to be increasingly accretive to the bank's overall earnings.

隨著 DBG 繼續擴大與現有客戶的業務活動，同時增加新客戶，我們預計網路安全業務的收入和毛利將出現強勁的獲利成長。隨著它的發展，我們預計我們的網路安全業務將越來越多地增加銀行的整體收益。

On the deposit side, we expect our low-cost insolvency deposits to return to growth, expanding throughout fiscal 2023 as a function of an increase in the volume of consumer bankruptcy over the same time frame, attributable primarily to the more challenging economic environment. We also expect to continue to expand our diverse broker network, which we source through personal wealth management deposits, mainly GICs and expand our business with existing partners. Recent data from one of our major banking partners is bearing this out.

在存款方面，我們預計我們的低成本破產存款將恢復成長，並在整個 2023 財年隨著同期消費者破產數量的增加而擴大，這主要歸因於更具挑戰性的經濟環境。我們也期望繼續擴大我們多元化的經紀商網絡，我們透過個人財富管理存款（主要是擔保投資證）獲得這些網絡，並擴大我們與現有合作夥伴的業務。我們主要銀行合作夥伴之一的最新數據證明了這一點。

Finally, and very importantly, as I noted earlier, VersaBank was designed specifically to perform well in any economic environment. And as I noted earlier, the bank has a track record of performing even a little better in economic downturns. As our banking peers are hunkering down for difficult times, our low-risk model enables us to capitalize on opportunities that might not have otherwise been available to us.

最後，也是非常重要的，正如我之前指出的，VersaBank 專為在任何經濟環境中表現良好而設計。正如我之前指出的，該銀行在經濟低迷時期的表現甚至略好一些。由於我們的銀行業同業正在為困難時期做好準備，我們的低風險模式使我們能夠利用原本可能無法獲得的機會。

With that, I would now like to open the call to questions. Operator?

現在我想開始提問。操作員？

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question-and-answer session.

女士們、先生們，我們現在開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Your first question comes from Greg McDonald from LodeRock Research.

你的第一個問題來自 LodeRock Research 的 Greg McDonald。

Listen, I wanted to ask, there's been a lot of discussion on net interest margins this quarter with earnings season. You make reference a little bit to it, David. I know that the mix of this bank is a little different than what most banks in Canada have. Can you talk about a couple of things? One is you make reference to the deposit mix, specifically bankruptcy deposits. And we haven't really seen a whole lot of traction on that; maybe that's been surprising to some. Can you give us a sense of what you see in 2023 from that perspective?

聽著，我想問一下，隨著財報季的到來，本季有很多關於淨利差的討論。大衛，你提到了一點。我知道這家銀行的結構與加拿大大多數銀行的結構略有不同。能談談幾件事嗎？一是你參考了存款組合，特別是破產存款。我們還沒有真正看到這方面有很大的吸引力；也許這讓一些人感到驚訝。您能否從這個角度讓我們了解您對 2023 年的看法？

And then I have a second question on loan growth. The loan growth expectation on Point-of-Sale, I think it's not a surprise to anyone. Is there anything that you're seeing in the mix within Point-of-Sale that you can comment on? Or is that mix still relatively similar to what the growth in 2022 was?

然後我有關於貸款成長的第二個問題。銷售點的貸款成長預期，我認為這對任何人來說都不足為奇。您在銷售點的組合中看到什麼可以評論的嗎？或者這種組合仍然與 2022 年的成長相對相似嗎？

Sure. Good questions, Greg. With respect to our deposit mix, yes, the deposits we received from the insolvency industry are even a little lower than the previous year. And I think that is the result -- well I know that's the result of the various support payments that our government made to help Canadian software that were suffering with the pandemic.

當然。好問題，格雷格。就我們的存款結構而言，是的，我們從破產行業收到的存款甚至比前一年還要低。我認為這就是結果——我知道這是我們政府為幫助遭受疫情影響的加拿大軟體提供的各種支持付款的結果。

So we're coming off a 35-year low of insolvencies, and there's a bit of a lag effect from that turning into deposits when the insolvencies increase. So I expect that now, of course, the store payments have ended and interest rates are going up and it's becoming a more challenging environment particularly for consumers and small businesses. But unfortunately, we'll see a lot more insolvencies in Canada. It will get back to sort of normal levels, maybe even exceed that. And that does bode well for us. It means that our insolvency deposits will start growing again and could very well get to $1 billion mark. They're already on $600 million right now, I mean coming off a 35-year low. So the mix should, throughout 2023, increase in percentage to insolvency deposits.

因此，我們的破產率正處於 35 年來的最低點，當破產率增加時，存款轉化為存款會產生一定的滯後效應。因此，我預計現在商店付款已經結束，利率正在上升，這將成為一個更具挑戰性的環境，特別是對於消費者和小型企業而言。但不幸的是，我們將在加拿大看到更多的破產事件。它會恢復到正常水平，甚至可能超過這個水平。這對我們來說確實是個好兆頭。這意味著我們的破產存款將再次開始成長，很可能達到 10 億美元大關。他們現在的資產已經達到 6 億美元，我的意思是剛剛擺脫了 35 年來的低點。因此，到 2023 年，破產存款的比例應該會增加。

Now with respect to loan growth, we're not really seeing much of a reduction in our Point-of-Sale growth presently, although I do expect the higher interest rates will dampen loan growth into 2023. The mix is primarily -- well not primarily, about about 2/3 of it has been in home improvement and home-type financing, and we love that business, and it represents a low-risk segment of the market. But in 2023, slightly a little more emphasis on the home improvement side than there has been, but it is already a big business for us. And of course, we're well committed and it's a lower risk segment of the Point-of-Sale market.

現在就貸款成長而言，我們目前並沒有真正看到銷售點成長大幅下降，儘管我確實預計利率上升將抑制 2023 年的貸款成長。這種組合主要是——但不是主要是，大約2/3的資金用於家居裝修和家居類融資，我們喜歡這個業務，它代表了市場的低風險部分。但到了 2023 年，我們對居家裝潢的重視程度會比以前稍微高一些，但這對我們來說已經是一門大生意了。當然，我們非常投入，而且它是銷售點市場的風險較低的部分。

And then with respect to the U.S. market, this was an opportunity to grow in point of sale as well. I suspect the mix was a little bit different in the U.S., but any general comments on what you're seeing in trends in the U.S. market so far with respect to growth opportunities in that segment?

對美國市場來說，這也是銷售點成長的機會。我懷疑美國的情況略有不同，但是您對迄今為止美國市場的趨勢以及該細分市場的成長機會有何總體評論？

Well, there seems to be a tremendous growth opportunity. I guess, a huge market, I think one figure we have was $1.8 trillion, as opposed to Canada, maybe 10% of that, 5% of that, maybe. So a huge growth from size. And any one of the industries that we finance in Canada, we'd be happy to do in the States.

嗯，似乎存在著巨大的成長機會。我想，一個巨大的市場，我認為我們擁有的一個數字是 1.8 兆美元，而不是加拿大，也許是其中的 10%，也許是其中的 5%。所以規模上有巨大的成長。我們在加拿大資助的任何一個行業，我們都樂意在美國開展。

Just by chance, the first one, where the customer we got was a large tractor-trailer financing company. And coincidentally, that was the very first customer we got in Canada, too, and not the same company, but the same industry. It was a tractor-trailer financing.

純屬偶然，我們的第一個客戶是一家大型拖車融資公司。巧合的是，這也是我們在加拿大的第一個客戶，而且不是同一家公司，而是同一產業。這是一次拖拉機拖車融資。

So I don't really have a good sort of visibility on what segments we'll grow most rapidly in. Just the market is so big and our product seems to be so attractive to these Point-of-Sale finance companies that once we've got our U.S. Bank, we expect really big growth in the states.

因此，對於我們將在哪些細分市場中成長最快，我並沒有很好的了解。只是市場如此之大，而我們的產品似乎對這些銷售點金融公司如此有吸引力，以至於一旦我們「有了我們的美國銀行，我們預期各州會出現真正的大幅成長。

And then just a final one from me, and then I'll pass it on. With respect to timing on bankruptcy deposit growth, thank you for the reference point of $1 billion. Are you getting any indications from the trustees that you deal with in that side of things on timing? Is this something that you expect happening in the first half of the year? Or I would suspect more so in the second half of the year?

然後是我的最後一篇，然後我會把它傳遞出去。關於破產存款成長的時機，感謝您提供 10 億美元的參考點。您是否從與您在這方面打交道的受託人那裡得到有關時間安排的任何指示？您預計今年上半年會發生這種情況嗎？還是下半年我會更懷疑？

Well, there's -- we're all seeing the cracks in the economy right now. The trustees are seeing increased volume already. Other banks are reporting larger provisions for losses. Their arrears rates are going up. So it's just the way you'd expect. We're seeing the leading indicators. And so I would say second half of 2023, it will be growing unfortunately, for Canadians it'll be growing like gangbusters. At least deposits start pouring in the door as states are being wound up. So towards the end of middle say, 2023, we probably start seeing the type of growth we used to experience in this area.

嗯，我們現在都看到經濟出現裂痕。受託人已經看到數量增加。其他銀行報告了更大的損失撥備。他們的欠款率正在上升。所以這正是您所期望的方式。我們看到了領先指標。所以我想說，到 2023 年下半年，不幸的是，對於加拿大人來說，它會像猛烈的增長一樣增長。至少，隨著各州的清盤，存款開始湧入。因此，到 2023 年中期末，我們可能會開始看到我們在該領域經歷過的成長類型。

Okay. Thanks very much for answering the questions. I'll pass it on. Thanks.

好的。非常感謝您回答問題。我會把它傳遞下去。謝謝。

Thank you, Greg.

謝謝你，格雷格。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員說明）

Your next question comes from Stephen Ranzini from University Bank.

您的下一個問題來自大學銀行的史蒂芬·蘭齊尼。

David, thank you for a great quarter. I've got several questions, but I'm just going to ask 2 and then go back in the queue. Last time we talked, you were thinking that you would have approval for your digital dollar project by the end of October. Obviously, that deadline is coming down. What are your current thoughts on that?

大衛，謝謝你度過了一個美好的季度。我有幾個問題，但我只想問 2 個，然後再回到隊列中。上次我們談話時，您認為您的數位美元專案將在 10 月底獲得批准。顯然，這個最後期限即將到來。您目前對此有何想法？

And secondly, have you ever given any thought to off balance sheet structures to hold some of your loans to be more capital efficient and drive a higher ROE for the bank?

其次，您是否考慮過採用表外結構來持有部分貸款，以提高資本效率並為銀行帶來更高的淨資產收益率？

Well, Stephen, thanks for logging in. And I wonder if you've just seemed to fog and rainy weather that's just gone through London here? I imagine you saw just a bit earlier than we did, where you're located.

好吧，史蒂芬，感謝您登入。我想知道您是否剛剛看到倫敦剛剛經歷的大霧和下雨天氣？我想你比我們早一點看到了你所在的位置。

Yes, it's pretty gray here in Ann Arbor...

是的，安娜堡這裡很灰色...

So what happened with the additional deposit receipt is the model that we had worked on, we called DCAD that used a third party to hold the wallet, didn't seem to sit well with the various regulators that we were discussing it with. So we pivoted over to a different model using all the same technology, where we would host, and we are hosting right now, the wallets ourselves. And hence, the name change to CADV.

因此，額外存款收據所發生的情況是我們曾經研究過的模型，我們稱之為 DCAD，它使用第三方來持有錢包，似乎與我們正在討論的各個監管機構並不一致。因此，我們轉向使用所有相同技術的不同模型，我們將在其中託管錢包，並且現在我們自己託管錢包。因此，名稱更改為 CADV。

We think this is the model that will have legs. And frankly, I wouldn't be surprised that every other bank [had one too], in that it has a lot of advantages over the original one. For one thing, the data for the deposits are maintained both on the stellar blockchain and also in our tried and true what we call deposit management system, DMS. So to alleviate sort of regulatory fears, say something should happen to a blockchain, which I really really doubt that would ever happen, but if it were, the data is maintained simultaneously on our existing deposit system.

我們認為這是有腿的模型。坦白說，我不會對其他銀行[也有這樣的銀行]感到驚訝，因為它比原來的銀行有很多優勢。一方面，存款資料既保存在恆星區塊鏈上，也保存在我們久經考驗的存款管理系統 DMS 中。因此，為了減輕某種監管擔憂，假設區塊鏈應該發生一些事情，我真的很懷疑這種情況是否會發生，但如果是這樣，數據會同時保存在我們現有的存款系統上。

So sort of in reaction to feedback we got from various regulators and what we noticed happening in the world, we've pivoted over to this, what we think is the best that's out there where a bank itself is the host of the wallet. And the digital deposit receipt isn't really a token, it represents a real deposit with a real bank that goes through all the normal AML procedures and all that. But it did take time. It is fully functional now amongst our directors and our employees. But we'll tactically wait to lift the curtain up and to make it available to our other depositors.

因此，為了回應我們從各個監管機構獲得的反饋以及我們注意到世界上發生的事情，我們已經轉向這一點，我們認為銀行本身是錢包的託管者是最好的。數位存款收據並不是真正的代幣，它代表了真實銀行的真實存款，經過了所有正常的反洗錢程序等等。但這確實需要時間。它現在在我們的董事和員工中完全發揮作用。但我們會策略性地等待拉開帷幕並將其提供給我們的其他儲戶。

So with respect to utilizing off-balance sheet techniques to fund our loans. Presently, we have a lot of capital. So we're just using our own capital to fund the loans and leases as we're generating them. As time progresses, though, we are contemplating portfolioing these assets so they would be readily available for sale. For 2 reasons, one, it increases the bank's liquidity and the other one, as you say, it improves the bank's return on common equity.

因此，關於利用表外技術為我們的貸款提供資金。目前，我們有大量的資金。因此，我們只是使用自己的資本來為我們產生的貸款和租賃提供資金。不過，隨著時間的推移，我們正在考慮對這些資產進行投資組合，以便它們可以隨時出售。有兩個原因，一是它增加了銀行的流動性，二是如你所說，它提高了銀行的普通股報酬率。

Okay. Great. I've got 2 more questions, but I'll go back in the queue, and we'll see if we get back to me.

好的。偉大的。我還有兩個問題，但我會回到隊列中，我們會看看是否能回覆我。

Okay, Stephen.

好吧，史蒂芬。

Your next question comes from Brad Ness from [CoroCapital].

您的下一個問題來自 [CoroCapital] 的 Brad Ness。

Hello, gentlemen, how are you doing?

你好，先生們，你們好嗎？

Very good, Brad.

非常好，布拉德。

Good. On the effective tax rate, that $1.1 million in additional taxes for the quarter, what was that specifically related to? And are we going to go back to that 27% effective tax rate, say, going forward?

好的。就有效稅率而言，本季 110 萬美元的額外稅款具體與什麼相關？未來我們是否會回到 27% 的有效稅率？

I think that's a good question for our CFO, who's been on the line waiting for a good question to answer. So Shawn, I'll leave that one to you.

我認為這對我們的財務長來說是一個很好的問題，他一直在等待一個好的問題的回答。所以肖恩，我把這個留給你了。

Thank you David.

謝謝大衛。

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

here folks... Brad. The high tax rate there we're seeing is the function of kind of 3 core variables, Brad, that we're pointing to. And we do expect this to diminish over the course of 2023. We don't think we'll get back to our statutory rate at 27%, but we do think we'll be selling for 30% as the various elements are rationalized over the course of the year.

在這裡，夥計們…布萊德。我們看到的高稅率是我們指出的 3 個核心變數的函數，布拉德。我們確實預計這種情況會在 2023 年期間減少。我們認為我們不會回到 27% 的法定稅率，但我們確實認為隨著各種因素的合理化，我們將以 30% 的價格出售。這一年的歷程。

They're comprised primarily of non-deductible expenses associated with our stock options, Brad, as well as some non-deductible losses. We think this is going to be one that we'll be able to utilize early in the coming year as well as the -- there's -- you're probably familiar [soppy tax] here in Canada, which we'll pay and a function of the foreign exchange gains realized particularly over the last quarter on our current U.S. funding operations through Versa finance.

它們主要包括與我們的股票選擇權相關的不可扣除的費用，布拉德，以及一些不可扣除的損失。我們認為這將是我們能夠在明年年初使用的一種稅收，以及你可能在加拿大熟悉的[軟稅]，我們將支付該稅並支付外匯收益的函數，特別是在上個季度通過Versa Finance 目前的美國融資業務所實現的收益。

So those 3 elements those miscellaneous items on [news app], but those 3 items contribute to about 90% of the increase that we noted in our public disclosure.

因此，這 3 個元素是 [新聞應用程式] 上的雜項，但這 3 個項目貢獻了我們在公開揭露中註意到的成長的約 90%。

Okay. Great. I got several more here if you guys have time. Nowadays, what type of rates are you getting on your Point-of-Sale loan financing? And what's the incremental cost to fund those?

好的。偉大的。如果你們有時間的話我這裡還有幾個。如今，您的銷售點貸款融資利率是多少？資助這些的增加成本是多少？

The rates are running in Canada, about 2.5% over the same term government [Cana] bond. So say, the government Cana bond is, say, 4% [broke], at least 6.5%-7% is the yield on the Point-of-Sale in Canada.

加拿大的利率約為同期政府公債的 2.5%。這麼說吧，加拿大政府公債的利率是 4% [破產]，加拿大銷售點的殖利率至少是 6.5%-7%。

In the United States, you add about 1% to that on the net interest margin. With respect to incremental costs, there may be a little bit of hiring necessary to take on the U.S. market. But not very much in relation to the scale of the operation. It's very, very scalable. And for the most part, all the operations will be handled at the tech center which I'm sitting in today in London. So there's no need to duplicate what we have here in London to take on the U.S. market.

在美國，淨利差增加約 1%。就增量成本而言，進軍美國市場可能需要招募一些人員。但與營運規模關係不大。它的可擴展性非常非常好。大多數情況下，所有操作都將在我今天坐在倫敦的技術中心處理。因此，沒有必要複製我們在倫敦的做法來進軍美國市場。

So marginal increases, tiny increases maybe in a few staff members to take on the U.S. market. But other than that, the systems are capable of many times the volume that we are presently dealing with.

因此，為了進軍美國市場，可能會增加一些員工的邊際成長，甚至是微小的成長。但除此之外，這些系統的容量是我們目前處理的容量的許多倍。

Okay. Great. And if I heard that correct, in the Canadian market, you're getting 250 basis points over treasuries. And in the U.S. market, you're getting 350 basis points over treasuries when this is a Point-of-Sale product?

好的。偉大的。如果我沒聽錯的話，在加拿大市場，你將獲得比國債高 250 個基點的收益。在美國市場，當這是銷售點產品時，您可以獲得比國庫券高 350 個基點的收益？

Be about right. Yes, it's about 1% better than we get in Canada, roughly speaking, those numbers.

大約是正確的。是的，粗略地說，這些數字比我們在加拿大得到的要好 1% 左右。

Okay. Great. And can you update me on kind of the timing of the CADV rollout as you kind of see things play out next year?

好的。偉大的。您能告訴我有關 CADV 推出的最新消息嗎？您預計明年會出現這樣的情況嗎？

Well, I think sort of early in 2023, we'll be in a position to take CADV to the open market. But that all depends on the regulators' perception. And right now, thanks to a certain [fellow in the Bahamas], created a whole lot of nervousness in this area, even though, of course, our digital deposit receipt is an entirely different animal than what was being promoted on the Bahamas.

嗯，我認為在 2023 年初，我們將能夠將 CADV 推向公開市場。但這完全取決於監管機構的看法。現在，多虧了某個[巴哈馬的同事]，在這個領域造成了很大的緊張，儘管我們的數位存款收據與巴哈馬所推廣的完全不同。

So, I mean, technically, we'd be ready to go first part of 2023. But we are cognizant of the caution and concern that various regulators have about this use of the blockchain. That's about the only similarity. We're simply using Stellar to account for our actual deposits with our bank.

所以，我的意思是，從技術上講，我們已經準備好在 2023 年上半年投入使用。但我們認識到各個監管機構對區塊鏈的這種使用所持的謹慎和擔憂。這是唯一的相似之處。我們只是使用 Stellar 來記錄我們在銀行的實際存款。

So not a whole lot of similarity to all the things that have gone wrong or even what the so-called stable coins where they've placed deposits with another financial institution as collateral for their coin. Ours represents a real deposit with a real bank. And in fact, the data is duplicated, so I think earlier, on our own DMS deposit system and on Stellar. So that in effect, our depositor has the ability to use VersaView, our View software or View app. And look, their deposit, just like they would with any other bank using good internet, but you can look at it on Steller.

因此，與所有出錯的事情，甚至所謂的穩定幣，他們在另一個金融機構存入存款作為其硬幣的抵押品，並沒有太多相似之處。我們的存款代表真實銀行的真實存款。事實上，數據是重複的，所以我之前認為，在我們自己的 DMS 存款系統和 Stellar 上。因此，實際上，我們的存款人可以使用 VersaView、我們的 View 軟體或 View 應用程式。看，他們的存款，就像他們在使用良好互聯網的任何其他銀行一樣，但你可以在 Steller 上查看它。

The bonus is, of course, should you choose to move your digital deposit receipt from your wallet to somebody else's wallet, say to affect a payment, you can do it. So what we've, in effect, done is turned an old-school bank account into the most modern type of checking account where our CADVs become checks, certified checks in fact, as they're drawn on our bank and move to somebody else's e-wallet, say, Amazon's e-wallet, to effect the payment.

當然，好處是，如果您選擇將數位存款收據從您的錢包轉移到其他人的錢包，例如影響付款，您可以這樣做。因此，我們實際上所做的就是將老式銀行帳戶轉變為最現代類型的支票帳戶，其中我們的CADV 成為支票，實際上是保付支票，因為它們是從我們的銀行提取並轉移到其他人的帳戶電子錢包，例如亞馬遜的電子錢包，以實現付款。

When I say that, some folks say, 'but they're already [rail] to do that, David; there's already ways to do the payments,' but nowhere near as efficiently, nowhere near as cost-effective. Transaction on sellers in the order fractions of cents and takes place instantaneously anywhere in the world versus if you try to move money even from Canada to the United States, you might be waiting 3 days and we charge a hefty fee for that.

當我這麼說時，有些人會說，“但他們已經準備這麼做了，大衛；”已經有一些方法可以進行支付，但遠沒有那麼有效，也遠沒有那麼划算。賣家的交易金額為幾美分，並且可以在世界任何地方即時進行，如果您嘗試將資金從加拿大轉移到美國，您可能需要等待 3 天，並且我們會為此收取高額費用。

So we think it's a fantastic revolutionary adaption of blockchain technology. And we're hoping that our regulators, and this is all throughout the world, will understand what we're doing and endorse it. It's about as low risk as you can imagine. It's a bank, we pay attention to all the things that others don't seem to have paid attention to, like, say,

所以我們認為這是區塊鏈技術的一個奇妙的革命性應用。我們希望我們的監管機構，以及全世界的監管機構，能夠理解我們正在做的事情並予以認可。這是你能想像的低風險。這是一家銀行，我們關注所有其他人似乎沒有關注的事情，例如，

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

and [terrace] financing that won't be the least.

還有[露台]融資，這並不是最不重要的。

Anyway, Brad, we're keenly excited about putting it out in Canada. And hopefully, our regulators in the new year after we've had some good solid interaction with them, will endorse it too.

不管怎樣，布拉德，我們對在加拿大上映感到非常興奮。希望我們的監管機構在新的一年裡，在我們與他們進行了良好而紮實的互動之後，也會認可它。

Great. A couple more here. On Digital Boundary Group, you had a strong revenue increase in the quarter of $1.8 million. Is that sustainable? Or is that an anomaly or seasonal boost in revenue? Or do you think that's more reoccurring?

偉大的。這裡還有幾個。 Digital Boundary Group 在本季實現了 180 萬美元的強勁營收成長。這是可持續的嗎？還是這是收入的異常或季節性增長？還是你認為這種情況比較常見？

I think that's more reoccurring in that we received a large contract with the one of largest corporations in Canada to do app testing, and that's very profitable. It's a specialized type work that DBG is doing for this large corporate. And the only constraint really is finding enough app testers. So we're actively trying to hire as many as we can to bolster that business. So yes, we're excited.

我認為這種情況更常見，因為我們與加拿大最大的公司之一簽訂了一份大合同，進行應用程式測試，這是非常有利可圖的。這是 DBG 為這家大公司做的一項專業類型的工作。唯一的限制實際上是找到足夠的應用程式測試人員。因此，我們正在積極嘗試僱用盡可能多的人來支持這項業務。所以，是的，我們很興奮。

DBG, I think at round numbers, we're $10 million in revenue, $5.86 million in gross profit. That should just keep going up at the same trajectory. App testing, like I say, is a wonderful business for us and all the other products that we have in DBG, that is sophisticated penetration testing. There's an increasing demand for it.

DBG，我認為以整數計算，我們的收入為 1000 萬美元，毛利為 586 萬美元。那應該會繼續以相同的軌跡上升。正如我所說，應用程式測試對於我們和 DBG 中的所有其他產品來說是一項很棒的業務，即複雜的滲透測試。對它的需求越來越大。

Absolutely. You said $10 million in revenue. I'm showing $5.7 million for the year. What is that $10 million? Is that expectation?

絕對地。你說的是1000萬美元的收入。我今年的收入為 570 萬美元。那1000萬美元是多少？這是期待嗎？

No, we show gross profit on our statements and total revenue, Shawn's on the line. I think it was $9.8 million for the year, Shawn total revenue?

不，我們在報表上顯示毛利和總收入，肖恩在線。我想肖恩今年的總收入是 980 萬美元？

That's right, David. Yes, Brad, you're right. You're looking at a gross profit of 5.7% as published and Dave was talking about top line revenue or sales.

沒錯，大衛。是的，布拉德，你是對的。您看到的毛利為公佈的 5.7%，戴夫談論的是頂線收入或銷售額。

So it's in the income statement. When I see non-interest income of $1.8 million, that's not revenue? You said that's net?

所以它在損益表中。當我看到 180 萬美元的非利息收入時，這不是收入嗎？你說那是網？

On the quarter, Brad, you're right, $1.8 million, and that's gross profit at DBG. And the challenge there is integrating that with the bank statement. So it's the most intuitive where we can merge the 2 income streams to have it somewhat sort of align with how the bank's statements are structured. So you're right. What you're looking at is gross profit.

Brad，你說得對，本季為 180 萬美元，這就是 DBG 的毛利。面臨的挑戰是將其與銀行對帳單整合起來。因此，這是最直觀的方式，我們可以合併兩個收入流，使其在某種程度上與銀行報表的結構一致。所以你是對的。你看到的是毛利。

Okay. What was revenue for the quarter?

好的。該季度的營收是多少？

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

Probably around 3.

大概3點左右。

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

We published the total...

我們公佈了總共...

$3 million? Okay. So you're saying core revenue digital rounded group was $3 million and the $1.8 million you report in the income statement is the lower gross profit part of that.

300萬美元？好的。因此，您說數字四捨五入集團的核心收入為 300 萬美元，而您在損益表中報告的 180 萬美元是其中較低的毛利部分。

About $2.8 million on the quarter, Brad, for sales and then $1.8 million for gross profit.

Brad，本季銷售額約 280 萬美元，毛利為 180 萬美元。

Okay. And if that's something you could present going forward, that would definitely be helpful, so I can differentiate that. But let's see, lastly here, when I add back that $1.8 million and $1.1 million, roughly $0.10 a share. It comes up to 1.1% ROA, 11% ROE kind of on a core basis. So I imagine that's a good starting place as I think about profitability early next year.

好的。如果這是你未來可以展示的東西，那肯定會有幫助，所以我可以區分這一點。但最後讓我們看看，當我加回 180 萬美元和 110 萬美元時，大約每股 0.10 美元。在核心基礎上，其 ROA 高達 1.1%，ROE 高達 11%。因此，當我考慮明年初的獲利能力時，我認為這是一個很好的起點。

How much leverage should I think you have in this model? If you continue to grow 20+% do you get to 15% ROE? I know you do eventually, but what's the timing of something like that?

我認為你在這個模型中應該有多大的影響力？如果持續成長 20% 以上，ROE 會達到 15% 嗎？我知道你最終會這樣做，但是這樣的事情發生的時間是什麼時候？

No, we do get 15%. That's the number we use in our planning. And the good question is on the timing. Presently, the Point-of-Sale business in Canada is still growing rapidly, which is quite surprising to me in that it's driven by the actual cost per month of the item that the person is purchasing and interest rates, of course, have a huge bearing on that. So you would think it would dampen down. But presently, it's still growing rapidly in Canada. Like I was saying earlier, not to the extent that we -- the year we just completed, 70-odd percent growth.

不，我們確實得到了 15%。這就是我們在計劃中使用的數字。好問題在於時機。目前，加拿大的銷售點業務仍在快速增長，這讓我感到非常驚訝，因為它是由人們購買的商品每月的實際成本和利率驅動的，當然，利率有巨大的影響。與此有關。所以你會認為它會減弱。但目前，它在加拿大仍在快速成長。正如我之前所說，我們剛完成的那一年成長了 70% 左右。

In the States, the model looks really attractive from the real-life customers we've been dealing with and pitching to. So the major constraint to get into that 15% ROE is how long it takes us to be granted the acquisition of the Holdingford bank. That's what's holding us back in the United States.

在美國，從我們一直在與之打交道和推銷的現實客戶看來，該模型確實很有吸引力。因此，達到 15% ROE 的主要限制是我們需要多長時間才能獲得收購 Holdingford 銀行的批准。這就是阻礙我們在美國前進的原因。

We created a sort of interim company we call VersaFinance to hold these assets. And it's quite cumbersome. But we've actually been backing off until we've got that U.S. license. So that's the gating item on rapid growth and a huge improvement in ROE. I'm just saying that, as you noted, we ended the year at a run rate of about $100 million in revenue and fixed costs are

我們創立了一家名為 VersaFinance 的臨時公司來持有這些資產。而且相當麻煩。但實際上我們一直在退縮，直到獲得美國許可證。因此，這是一個快速成長和股本回報率大幅提高的門控項目。我只是說，正如您所指出的，我們年底的收入約為 1 億美元，固定成本為

(inaudible)

（聽不清楚）

but without any extraneous items, they're probably run around $55 million. We're already starting the... Is that a number you would have, Shawn?

但如果沒有任何無關的物品，它們的花費可能約為 5500 萬美元。我們已經開始了……這是你想要的號碼嗎，肖恩？

Yes, sir.

是的先生。

Yes. So we're already starting the year with a $45 million pre-tax. If we did nothing else, we didn't grow a bit, and we are growing rapidly still in the Canadian market. So we really are heading into the 2023 with a full head of steam. And then if it turns out that the bankruptcies increase -- they seem to be already. Well, that helps our margin too because what we pay on the what are really operating accounts is a lot less than we pay on GICs.

是的。因此，今年伊始我們的稅前收入已達 4,500 萬美元。如果我們什麼都不做，我們就沒有成長一點，而且我們在加拿大市場仍然在快速成長。因此，我們確實正滿懷信心地邁向 2023 年。如果事實證明破產數量增加了——它們似乎已經增加了。嗯，這也有助於我們的利潤，因為我們在實際營運帳戶上支付的費用比在擔保投資證上支付的費用要少得多。

So I hate to be so optimistic when all my colleagues are looking at their boots and weeping at times. But as I was saying earlier, our little bank is designed for this type of economy. And it's looking really good. You didn't hear us complaining about loan losses or cracks in the portfolio or any of those things. In fact, the only loan we had in arrears paid off the next day, not just a crazy anomaly in accounting that you show a loan compared to 1 day, the next day, it's paid off.

因此，當我所有的同事有時看著他們的靴子哭泣時，我討厭如此樂觀。但正如我之前所說，我們的小銀行就是為這種類型的經濟而設計的。而且看起來真的很好。你沒有聽到我們抱怨貸款損失或投資組合破裂或任何此類事情。事實上，我們拖欠的唯一一筆貸款第二天就還清了，這不僅僅是會計上的瘋狂異常，你顯示的貸款與前一天相比，第二天就還清了。

We're going into the market with a really solid portfolio, a full team of existing loans and customers growing. And if the recession kicks in, as everybody thinks that probably just means an abundance of economical price deposits for us.

我們將以真正可靠的投資組合、現有貸款和不斷成長的客戶組成的完整團隊進入市場。如果經濟衰退開始，正如大家所認為的那樣，這可能對我們來說意味著大量的經濟價格存款。

Got it. Happy holidays.

知道了。節日快樂。

Thank you, Brad. Come and see you again some time in some time in the winter months. I might be spending a little time in my place in Florida. So it won't be too short a ride to go up to where you are.

謝謝你，布拉德。冬季的某個時候，我們會再來看你。我可能會在佛羅裡達州的家裡待上一段時間。所以到達你所在的地方不會太短。

Sounds good. Just let me know.

聽起來不錯。請告訴我。

Absolutely.

絕對地。

Your next question comes from Stefan Ranzini from University Bank.

您的下一個問題來自大學銀行的 Stefan Ranzini。

Yes, guys. Thanks for having the chance to ask my last 2 questions. So I noticed in your financials that your average price per share on the buybacks that you did was $9.88, Canadian right, which is actually higher than the current price. And I noticed that during the year, you granted just under 1 million shares of options at CAD 1.90. I guess my question to you is, with the stock currently trading at $0.77 on the dollar book value, why not get a little more aggressive than just buying 195,300 shares to at least offset the stock option dilution?

是的，夥計們。感謝您有機會問我最後兩個問題。因此，我在你們的財務數據中註意到，你們回購股票的每股平均價格是 9.88 美元（加元），這實際上高於當前價格。我注意到，在這一年裡，您以 1.90 加幣的價格授予了不到 100 萬股選擇權。我想我對你的問題是，鑑於該股票目前的交易價格為美元賬面價值 0.77 美元，為什麼不比僅僅購買 195,300 股更激進一點，以至少抵消股票期權稀釋呢？

Well, good question, Stephen. And the answer is it took quite a while to take the normal course [that's forbidden] into United States. And it wasn't anything other than just paperwork and regulatory approvals required.

嗯，好問題，史蒂芬。答案是，我花了相當長的時間才走上[禁止的]正常路線進入美國。除了所需的文書工作和監管批准之外，沒有其他任何事情。

It now is in place. Raymond James is operating it for us. They, of course, have been blocked out but we all are. But after the block out, you'll see RJ in there. And we've got about 1.5 million shares left that we can buy. And as you say, a fantastic price, we might be able to buy them out at 77% a book. So we'll be looking to pick up as much as we can.

現在已經就位了。雷蒙德詹姆斯正在為我們操作它。當然，他們已被封鎖，但我們所有人都被封鎖了。但在封鎖之後，你會看到 RJ 在那裡。我們還有大約 150 萬股可供購買。正如你所說，價格太棒了，我們也許可以以每本書 77% 的價格買斷它們。因此，我們將盡可能多地收集。

Awesome. And then my last question is on net interest margin and changes in interest rates, right? So in the short run, the impact for a bank like VersaBank is not fully reflective of what the longer-term impacts are of a shift in interest rates, as you know. So I noticed that sequentially, you had, I think it was a 5 basis point rise in your net interest margin, right? I would assume that over a year since the Bank of Canada rate rose 3.5% so far that there's a bigger impact as assets continue to reprice. Can you quantify in dollars for every 1% rise in rates, what the immediate impact is and then what's the say, 1-year impact is on net interest margin, please?

驚人的。我的最後一個問題是關於淨利差和利率變化，對嗎？因此，如您所知，從短期來看，像 VersaBank 這樣的銀行所受到的影響並不能完全反映利率變化的長期影響。所以我注意到，您的淨利差連續上升了 5 個基點，對嗎？我認為自加拿大央行利率上漲 3.5% 以來一年多來，隨著資產繼續重新定價，影響會更大。您能否用美元來量化利率每上升 1%，其直接影響是什麼？那麼 1 年對淨利差的影響是怎樣的？

Well, short answer is that there's hardly any impact on us on a rising interest rate environment in that we're so precisely matched. We only run about 1.4 years asset duration about the same in liabilities. So we moved very, very precisely with the interest rate environment by design.

嗯，簡短的回答是，利率上升的環境對我們幾乎沒有任何影響，因為我們是如此精確匹配。我們的資產期限只有大約 1.4 年，負債期限也差不多。因此，我們在設計上非常非常精確地適應了利率環境。

However, we do make much better on the cash that we're holding for liquidity purposes. So that's why you would see the margin on our loans pretty well the same, maybe decline even a tiny bit,the margin on the loans. But the actual overall net interest margin of the bank improved to 2.81%, which in Canada, that would be by far the highest net interest margin of any bank; all of them are posting declines.

然而，我們確實利用我們出於流動性目的而持有的現金賺得更好。因此，這就是為什麼您會看到我們的貸款保證金幾乎相同，甚至可能略有下降。但該銀行的實際整體淨利差改善至2.81%，這在加拿大是迄今為止銀行最高的淨利差；所有這些都出現了下降。

So there will be a great continue of time and as I expect it will, a little bit more in Canada. There's a positive impact on our profits and loss on our net interest margin and that we'd earn more on our liquid securities.

因此，將會有很長一段時間，正如我所期望的，在加拿大會持續更長的時間。我們的淨利差對我們的損益產生正面影響，我們可以從流動證券中賺取更多收益。

Okay. And again, great work on a good quarter.

好的。再說一遍，這個季度的工作做得很好。

Well, thank you... Look forward to getting together in person one of these days.

好吧，謝謝……期待有一天能親自相聚。

Thank you. I can actually come to Canada now.

謝謝。我現在實際上可以來加拿大了。

Yes, yes. And we can cross the border too, it seems. I crossed at the Bluewater bridge on a long and got a nice welcome. I don't think there's that many customers coming in right now. So I was well received.

是的是的。看來我們也可以跨越邊界。我穿過藍水橋，受到了熱烈的歡迎。我認為現在沒有那麼多顧客進來。所以我受到了好評。

No, the tourism business is way down.

不，旅遊業正在大幅下滑。

Yes. Well it'll get back. Look forward to seeing it, Stephen. We'll have to have a nice lunch.

是的。嗯，它會回來的。期待看到它，史蒂芬。我們得吃一頓豐盛的午餐。

Yes. Thank you. Look forward to it.

是的。謝謝。對此期待。

Thank you. Mr. Taylor, there are no further questions. You can go ahead.

謝謝。泰勒先生，沒有其他問題了。你可以繼續。

Well, I'd like to thank everyone for joining us today, and I look forward to speaking with you at the time of our first quarter fiscal release. Obviously, we're a very excited team of bankers here at VersaBank, as opposed to maybe our colleagues in our industry in that, as we've sort of talked about in a little more detail on those calls, we've designed our bank to take advantage of what for other bankers are challenges, for us, it tends to be an opportunity. And that was demonstrated, I think, quite readily in how fast we recovered to have a record year in 2022, particularly with the growth in our point-of-sale business that came off the pandemics, huge decline in volume.

好吧，我要感謝大家今天加入我們，我期待在我們發布第一季財務報告時與大家交談。顯然，我們在 VersaBank 是一支非常興奮的銀行家團隊，與我們行業的同事不同，正如我們在這些電話會議上更詳細地討論過的那樣，我們設計了我們的銀行抓住對其他銀行家來說是挑戰的機會，對我們來說，這往往是個機會。我認為，我們在 2022 年恢復創紀錄的速度之快就證明了這一點，特別是我們的銷售點業務在擺脫流行病影響後實現了增長，銷量大幅下降。

So that's sort of what you can expect with how this bank is set up to run that when recessions come, our competition tends to be let's say a little more myopic, having to look at their own portfolios, and our source of deposits from the insolvency industry, which now we've probably grown our client base of insolvency professionals to most of the industry, most of the large insolvency practices in Canada now bank with us. So we're in good shape to take advantage of what might be a tougher time for others.

因此，這就是你可以預期的，當經濟衰退來臨時，這家銀行的運作方式是這樣的，我們的競爭往往會更加短視，必須審視他們自己的投資組合，以及我們破產後的存款來源現在我們可能已經將破產專業人士的客戶群擴大到了該行業的大多數，加拿大的大多數大型破產實踐現在都在我們這裡進行。因此，我們處於良好狀態，可以利用對其他人來說可能更困難的時期。

Again, thank you. Thanks for dialing in, and we'll look forward to talking to you next quarter.

再次謝謝你。感謝您撥打電話，我們期待下個季度與您交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。我們感謝您的參與，並請您斷開線路。