UMB Financial Corp (UMBF) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the UMB Financial Fourth Quarter 2022 Financial Results Call. My name is Daisy, and I'll be coordinating your call today. (Operator Instructions)

大家好，歡迎來到 UMB Financial 2022 年第四季度財務業績電話會議。我叫 Daisy，今天我會協調你的來電。 （操作員說明）

I would now like to hand the call over to your host, Kay Gregory with Investor Relations to begin. Okay, please go ahead.

我現在想將電話轉交給您的主持人 Kay Gregory，他負責投資者關係。好的，請繼續。

Good morning, and welcome to our fourth quarter and year-end 2022 call. Mariner Kemper, President and CEO; and Ram Shankar, CFO, will share a few comments about our results. Jim Rine, CEO of UMB Bank; and Tom Terry, Chief Credit Officer, will also be available for the question-and-answer session.

早上好，歡迎來到我們的第四季度和 2022 年底電話會議。 Mariner Kemper，總裁兼首席執行官；首席財務官 Ram Shankar 將就我們的結果發表一些評論。 UMB銀行首席執行官Jim Rine；首席信貸官 Tom Terry 也將出席問答環節。

Before we begin, let me remind you that today's presentation contains forward-looking statements, which are subject to assumptions, risks and uncertainties. These risks are included in our SEC filings and are summarized on Slide 42 of our presentation. Actual results may differ from those set forth in forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today. We undertake no obligation to update them, except to the extent required by securities laws. All earnings per share metrics discussed on this call are on a diluted share basis. Our presentation materials and press release are available online at investorrelations.umb.com.

在我們開始之前，讓我提醒您，今天的演示文稿包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受假設、風險和不確定性的影響。這些風險包含在我們提交給美國證券交易委員會的文件中，並在我們演示文稿的幻燈片 42 中進行了總結。實際結果可能與前瞻性陳述中的陳述有所不同，前瞻性陳述僅在今天發表。我們不承擔更新它們的義務，除非證券法要求。本次電話會議討論的所有每股收益指標均以稀釋後的股份為基礎。我們的演示材料和新聞稿可在 investorrelations.umb.com 在線獲取。

Now I'll turn the call over to Mariner Kemper.

現在，我將把電話轉給 Mariner Kemper。

Thank you, Kay, and happy new year, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. I'll make some brief comments about our quarter and 2022 and then turn the call over to Ram for a review of our results in more detail before we take your questions.

謝謝你，凱，大家新年快樂。感謝您今天加入我們。我將對我們的季度和 2022 年做一些簡短的評論，然後在我們回答您的問題之前將電話轉給 Ram 以更詳細地審查我們的結果。

Our fourth quarter results closed out another record year of earnings, driven by strong balance sheet growth, solid credit metrics from our differentiated fee income sources. Net income for the fourth quarter was $100.2 million or $2.06 per share. For the full year 2022, net income was $431.7 million, or $8.86 per share, an increase of 22.3% compared to 2021.

在強勁的資產負債表增長、我們差異化費用收入來源的可靠信用指標的推動下，我們的第四季度業績結束了又一個創紀錄的年度收益。第四季度淨收入為 1.002 億美元或每股 2.06 美元。 2022 年全年淨收入為 4.317 億美元，合每股 8.86 美元，比 2021 年增長 22.3%。

Operating pretax pre-provision EPS for the year was $11.73 per share compared to $9.26 per share for the prior year. Net interest income for the fourth quarter increased 5% sequentially. This was driven largely by and over $1 billion increase in average loans, which is a 21% increase on an annualized basis, the impact of rising rates, positive asset mix shift and loan fees. This was partially negated by an increase in deposit costs, largely driven by deposit initiatives to attract new-to-bank customers, particularly in our commercial business.

本年度稅前撥備前經營每股收益為每股 11.73 美元，上年同期為每股 9.26 美元。第四季度淨利息收入環比增長 5%。這主要是由於平均貸款增長超過 10 億美元（按年率計算增長 21%）、利率上升、積極的資產組合轉變和貸款費用的影響。這在一定程度上被存款成本的增加所抵消，存款成本的增加主要是由吸引新銀行客戶的存款計劃推動的，特別是在我們的商業業務中。

Additionally, we saw some continued market pressures in our rate-sensitive institutional business. As we've noted in the past, our business profile and funding this is uniquely skewed in favor of commercial and institutional customers. These sources experience different pace and timing than some of our more retail-heavy peers in the repricing environment we are in today. Cycle to date, we've had a beta of 54% on interest-bearing deposits and 33% on total deposits. Our deposit pricing during the cycle is generally in line with our internal expectations and consistent with what we've been talking about publicly.

此外，我們在對利率敏感的機構業務中看到了一些持續的市場壓力。正如我們過去指出的那樣，我們的業務概況和資金是獨一無二的，有利於商業和機構客戶。在我們今天所處的重新定價環境中，這些消息來源的速度和時機與我們一些更注重零售的同行相比有所不同。迄今為止，我們的計息存款貝塔係數為 54%，總存款貝塔係數為 33%。我們在周期內的存款定價總體上符合我們的內部預期，也與我們一直在公開談論的內容一致。

We tend to focus more on total funding costs, which considers the benefit of DDA balances and the impact of borrowing levels. That beta is 36% cycle to date, and we benefit on the asset side as well, with a cycle-to-date beta of 53% on loan yields, 60% of our loans reprice within the next quarter and 70% in the next 12 months. We expect this repricing, combined with our outlook for loan growth will continue to drive good growth in net interest income.

我們傾向於更多地關注總融資成本，它考慮了 DDA 餘額的好處和借貸水平的影響。迄今為止，該貝塔週期為 36%，我們在資產方面也受益，貸款收益率的周期迄今貝塔值為 53%，我們 60% 的貸款在下一季度重新定價，70% 在下一季度重新定價12個月。我們預計這次重新定價，加上我們對貸款增長的展望，將繼續推動淨利息收入的良好增長。

Pipelines and sales activity in our fee businesses continue to be strong across the company, driving year-over-year noninterest income growth notwithstanding some market-related variances. I'm excited for the opportunities we see in 2023 and beyond. Updates on our various lines of business are included in our slides, and Ram will share a few details shortly.

我們收費業務的管道和銷售活動在整個公司繼續保持強勁，儘管存在一些與市場相關的差異，但推動了非利息收入的同比增長。我對我們在 2023 年及以後看到的機會感到興奮。我們的幻燈片中包含了我們各種業務線的更新，Ram 將很快分享一些細節。

We've long focused on our goal of positive operating leverage rather than specific revenue and expense levels. For the full year of 2022, we generated leverage of 6.87%. This continues to be a focus for us, and we expect to generate positive operating leverage again in 2023.

長期以來，我們一直專注於積極的經營槓桿目標，而不是具體的收入和支出水平。 2022 年全年，我們的槓桿率為 6.87%。這仍然是我們關注的焦點，我們預計 2023 年將再次產生積極的經營槓桿。

Moving to lending. The drivers behind our 21% linked quarter annualized growth in average balances this quarter are on Slide 23. Total top line loan production, as shown on Slide 24, remained strong at $1.3 billion for the quarter, bringing full year 2022 originations to a record $5 billion. Payoffs and paydowns represent 3.4% of loans for the fourth quarter. While we and peer banks have seen some slowdown in the sale on refi markets, payoffs are hard to predict from quarter-to-quarter. The average for the year was just over 4%, in line with our longer-term trends.

轉向貸款。幻燈片 23 是我們本季度平均餘額年化增長 21% 的驅動力。如幻燈片 24 所示，本季度總貸款產量保持強勁，達到 13 億美元，使 2022 年全年的發放量達到創紀錄的 5 美元十億。還款和還款佔第四季度貸款的 3.4%。雖然我們和同行銀行已經看到再融資市場的銷售有所放緩，但很難預測每個季度的收益。今年的平均值略高於 4%，符合我們的長期趨勢。

C&I lending provided nearly half of our $1 billion of average loan growth for the quarter, with balances increasing 21% on a linked quarter annualized basis. Commercial demand continues to be strong, and we're seeing robust activity within our existing customer base. Line utilization has ticked up from last year and was at 37% for the fourth quarter.

C&I 貸款佔本季度 10 億美元平均貸款增長的近一半，餘額按相關季度年化計算增長 21%。商業需求持續強勁，我們在現有客戶群中看到了強勁的活動。線路利用率比去年有所上升，第四季度為 37%。

Commercial real estate and construction loans posted 25% annualized growth in the fourth quarter, predominantly in multifamily and industrial properties. Construction represented a large portion of new commitments in 2022. So we'll see the additional impact in balances as those loans begin to fund. Average residential mortgage balances have increased 21% over the fourth quarter of last year, despite the impact of a rising rate environment.

商業房地產和建築貸款在第四季度實現了 25% 的年化增長，主要集中在多戶住宅和工業地產。建築業佔 2022 年新承諾的很大一部分。因此，隨著這些貸款開始提供資金，我們將看到餘額的額外影響。儘管受到利率上升環境的影響，平均住宅抵押貸款餘額比去年第四季度增加了 21%。

Our down payment assistance program for the first-time homebuyers had more than 1,600 new applications, resulting in $2.9 million in assistance in 2022. Looking ahead to the first quarter, we see opportunity in our various verticals across the footprint, and we expect continued strong growth to kick off 2023.

我們針對首次購房者的首付援助計劃有 1,600 多份新申請，在 2022 年獲得了 290 萬美元的援助。展望第一季度，我們在各個垂直領域看到了機會，我們預計會繼續保持強勁勢頭2023 年開始增長。

Credit quality remains excellent. Net charge-offs were just 4 basis points of average loans for the fourth quarter and 21 basis points for the full year. Nonperforming assets comprised a modest 5 basis points of total assets. Provisions for the quarter of $9 million was driven by our continued strong loan growth, portfolio metrics and changes in the macroeconomic environment. Our reserve coverage is now at 0.91% of total loans.

信用質量保持優良。淨註銷僅為第四季度平均貸款的 4 個基點和全年的 21 個基點。不良資產僅佔總資產的 5 個基點。本季度 900 萬美元的準備金是由我們持續強勁的貸款增長、投資組合指標和宏觀經濟環境的變化推動的。我們的準備金覆蓋率現在為貸款總額的 0.91%。

Back to the balance sheet. Average total deposits for the quarter increased 5.3% or 21% on an annualized basis compared to the third quarter. Our deposit initiatives in Commercial Banking brought in more than $1 billion during the quarter. DDA balances remained steady from the last quarter and represent 40% of average deposits compared to 42% in the third quarter and 41% in the fourth quarter of last year.

回到資產負債表。與第三季度相比，本季度平均存款總額按年率計算增長 5.3% 或 21%。我們在商業銀行業務的存款計劃在本季度帶來了超過 10 億美元的收入。 DDA 餘額與上一季度相比保持穩定，占平均存款的 40%，而去年第三季度為 42%，去年第四季度為 41%。

The economic data continues to be a paradox with the labor market signaling a soft landing, but other indicators like the LEI index are signaling a more prolonged recession. We have ongoing dialogue with our clients about their business and outlooks and borrowers are generally seeing good pipelines and many are reporting that supply chain issues have mitigated somewhat. However, cash remains as finding talent to support growth may be a headwind.

經濟數據繼續自相矛盾，勞動力市場發出軟著陸信號，但 LEI 指數等其他指標則發出更長時間衰退的信號。我們與客戶就他們的業務和前景進行持續對話，借款人普遍看到良好的管道，許多人報告說供應鏈問題有所緩解。然而，現金仍然存在，因為尋找人才來支持增長可能是一個逆風。

As I mentioned, we see good growth opportunities in the first quarter. And although we continue to closely monitor early warning indicators, we're not seeing any broad concerns. Overall, 2022 was a very strong year. While the unpredictability of the current rate environment is challenging, our time-tested business model and relationship-based culture continues to perform well, and we're off and running as we start the 2023 year, with a goal to maintain positive operating leverage regardless of the health and direction of the economy.

正如我所提到的，我們在第一季度看到了良好的增長機會。儘管我們繼續密切監測預警指標，但我們沒有看到任何廣泛的擔憂。總體而言，2022 年是非常強勁的一年。儘管當前費率環境的不可預測性具有挑戰性，但我們經過時間考驗的商業模式和基於關係的文化繼續表現良好，我們在 2023 年開始時開始運行，目標是在任何情況下都保持積極的經營槓桿經濟的健康和方向。

Now I'll turn it over to Ram with some additional comments. Ram?

現在我將把它轉交給 Ram，並附上一些額外的評論。內存？

Thanks, Mariner. Let me start with some commentary on balance sheet trends with our liquidity profile shown on Slide 20. Our Fed account, reverse repo and cash balances rebounded slightly to $1.8 billion and now comprise 5.1% of average earning assets with a blended yield of 3.65% compared to 2.3% in the third quarter. This was driven by our deposit camping as well as seasonal inflow of public funds deposits.

謝謝，水手。讓我先從幻燈片 20 中顯示的我們的流動性概況對資產負債表趨勢的一些評論開始。我們的美聯儲賬戶、逆回購和現金餘額小幅反彈至 18 億美元，目前占平均收益資產的 5.1%，混合收益率為 3.65%，相比之下第三季度為 2.3%。這是由我們的存款露營以及公共資金存款的季節性流入推動的。

Cash flow from our securities portfolio has continued to help fund loan growth opportunities during the quarter. As shown on Slide 27, the portfolio roll off for the fourth quarter was $246 million with a yield of 1.94%, while we purchased $84 million in securities, primarily CLOs, with a yield of 5.04%. Additionally, the portfolio is expected to generate over $1 billion of cash flows in the next 12 months. The yield of those securities rolling off is approximately 2.03%, while treasury yields present very attractive reinvestment levels, our priority is to fund the opportunities we continue to see in our lending verticals.

我們證券投資組合的現金流在本季度繼續幫助為貸款增長機會提供資金。如幻燈片 27 所示，第四季度的投資組合縮減為 2.46 億美元，收益率為 1.94%，而我們購買了 8400 萬美元的證券，主要是 CLO，收益率為 5.04%。此外，該投資組合預計將在未來 12 個月內產生超過 10 億美元的現金流。這些證券的收益率約為 2.03%，而國債收益率呈現出非常有吸引力的再投資水平，我們的首要任務是為我們在貸款垂直領域繼續看到的機會提供資金。

Loan yields increased 89 basis points from the third quarter to 5.35% with a linked quarter beta of approximately 61%. The total cost of deposits, including DDAs, was 1.23% and up from 65 basis points last quarter. Net interest margin expanded 7 basis points for the third quarter. The largest positive NIM impacts included approximately 52 basis points from loan repricing, loan fees and mix, 34 basis points for the benefit of free funds and 7 basis points from reduced liquidity balances and rates. Offsets included a negative 94 basis point impact related to the cost and mix of interest-bearing liabilities.

貸款收益率較第三季度增加 89 個基點至 5.35%，相關季度貝塔係數約為 61%。包括 DDA 在內的存款總成本為 1.23%，高於上一季度的 65 個基點。第三季度淨息差擴大了 7 個基點。 NIM 最大的正面影響包括貸款重新定價、貸款費用和組合帶來的約 52 個基點、自由資金收益帶來的 34 個基點以及流動性餘額和利率下降帶來的 7 個基點。抵消包括與計息負債的成本和組合相關的 94 個基點的負面影響。

As we look ahead, there are a lot of variables at play that will impact the trajectory of our net interest margin, including the depth and duration of Fed tightening cycle, outlook for equity markets and bad impact on deposits expected disintermediation of DDA balances as ECR rates further increased and our own need to generate additional deposits through targeted campaigns to fund loan growth.

展望未來，有很多變量在起作用，它們將影響我們的淨息差軌跡，包括美聯儲緊縮週期的深度和持續時間、股票市場的前景以及對存款的不利影響，預計 DDA 餘額將作為 ECR 脫媒利率進一步上升，我們自己需要通過有針對性的活動來產生額外的存款來為貸款增長提供資金。

Based on our own simulations, we expect our first quarter net interest margin to be flat to slightly up from fourth quarter levels. Additionally, we stand to benefit with the Fed pauses and the pressures on our index deposit book update and asset yields benefit from the current repricing environment and rotation from investment securities.

根據我們自己的模擬，我們預計第一季度的淨息差將持平或略高於第四季度的水平。此外，我們將從美聯儲的暫停中受益，我們的指數存款簿更新和資產收益率的壓力受益於當前的重新定價環境和投資證券的輪換。

As Mariner noted, while the focus on deposit betas and NIM is important, we also focus on net interest income growth facilitated primarily by loan growth.

正如 Mariner 指出的那樣，雖然關注存款貝塔和 NIM 很重要，但我們也關注主要由貸款增長推動的淨利息收入增長。

Additionally, we typically manage to a loan-to-deposit ratio limit of 75%. In the fourth quarter, average deposit growth kept pace with loan growth, keeping our ratio steady at just under 65%. Given our strong loan growth outlook, we will continue to focus on deposits and client acquisition across all our lines of businesses.

此外，我們通常將貸存比限制在 75%。第四季度，平均存款增長與貸款增長保持同步，使我們的比率穩定在略低於 65% 的水平。鑑於我們強勁的貸款增長前景，我們將繼續專注於所有業務領域的存款和客戶獲取。

Back to the income statement. Total fee income for the quarter was $125.5 million compared to $128.7 million for the third quarter. We saw some market-related declines, including a $2.3 million decrease in company-owned life insurance income along with a $900,000 decrease in customer-related derivative income. COLI income, which was just $21,000 in the fourth quarter versus $2.3 million in the third quarter had a similar offset in deferred compensation expense.

回到損益表。本季度總費用收入為 1.255 億美元，而第三季度為 1.287 億美元。我們看到了一些與市場相關的下降，包括公司擁有的人壽保險收入減少 230 萬美元，以及與客戶相關的衍生品收入減少 90 萬美元。中國海外發展第四季度的收入僅為 21,000 美元，而第三季度為 230 萬美元，遞延補償費用也有類似的抵消。

For the full year 2022, the 18.6% increase in fee income included investment security gains and losses, driven largely by a gain on our sale of Visa Class B shares in the second quarter. Outside of these gains, we saw positive results from several businesses, including $31 million of additional brokerage fees related to higher 12b-1 and money market revenue share income despite market-related compression of 11% in the underlying money market balances compared to year-end 2021.

對於 2022 年全年，費用收入增長 18.6%，其中包括投資安全收益和損失，這主要是由於我們在第二季度出售 Visa B 類股票的收益。除了這些收益之外，我們還看到了幾項業務的積極成果，包括與更高的 12b-1 和貨幣市場收入分成相關的 3100 萬美元的額外經紀費用，儘管與去年相比市場相關的基礎貨幣市場餘額壓縮了 11%- 2021 年底。

Trusted securities processing income increased 5.8% year-over-year and included strong contributions from Fund Services and Corporate Trust. For the full year, we had a decrease of $10 million COLI income with a similar decrease in deferred compensation expense.

受託證券處理收入同比增長 5.8%，其中包括基金服務和企業信託的強勁貢獻。全年，我們的 COLI 收入減少了 1000 萬美元，遞延補償費用也有類似的減少。

Slide 22 shows trends in noninterest expense. The 2.8% linked quarter increase was primarily driven by an increase of $2.6 million in processing fees, largely software costs related to the ongoing modernization of core systems, $2.1 million in additional marketing and business development expense, driven by increased advertising for various campaigns and projects and $1.8 million of increased charitable giving included in other expense.

幻燈片 22 顯示了非利息支出的趨勢。 2.8% 的相關季度增長主要是由於處理費增加了 260 萬美元，主要是與核心系統持續現代化相關的軟件成本，以及 210 萬美元的額外營銷和業務開發費用，這是由各種活動和項目的廣告增加推動的其他費用中增加的 180 萬美元慈善捐贈。

Additionally, as I mentioned last quarter, our amortization expense increase related to the acquisition of HSA deposits completed in the fourth quarter. A few items to note from the expense levels going forward. As is typical fourth quarter expenses included several timing-related variances along with some nonrecurring items. Considering those variances, we have put our quarterly starting point closer to the $225 million to $247 million range.

此外，正如我上個季度提到的，我們的攤銷費用增加與第四季度完成的 HSA 存款收購有關。從未來的費用水平中需要注意的幾個項目。與典型的第四季度費用一樣，包括一些與時間相關的差異以及一些非經常性項目。考慮到這些差異，我們將季度起點設定在更接近 2.25 億美元至 2.47 億美元的範圍內。

Also, keep in mind that first quarter expenses are typically higher due to seasonal reset of payroll taxes and other benefits expenses. The acquisition of HSA deposits will add approximately $4.5 million of additional amortization expense annually. And as previously mentioned, the increase in FDIC assessment rate takes effect in the first quarter. As a reminder, we estimate this will have an approximate annual impact of $6 million pretax.

此外，請記住，由於工資稅和其他福利支出的季節性重置，第一季度的支出通常會更高。收購 HSA 存款每年將增加約 450 萬美元的額外攤銷費用。並且如前所述，FDIC評估利率的提高在第一季度生效。提醒一下，我們估計這每年將產生大約 600 萬美元的稅前影響。

As Mariner noted, our focus remains on generating positive operating leverage while prudently investing in our businesses. Our effective tax rate was 19.1% for the fourth quarter and 18.9% for the full year, reflecting a smaller portion of income from tax exempt municipal securities, along with changes in COLI valuations. For the full year 2023, we anticipate it will be approximately 19% to 20%.

正如 Mariner 指出的那樣，我們的重點仍然是在謹慎投資我們的業務的同時產生積極的經營槓桿。我們第四季度的有效稅率為 19.1%，全年為 18.9%，反映了免稅市政證券收入的較小部分，以及 COLI 估值的變化。對於 2023 年全年，我們預計這一比例約為 19% 至 20%。

That concludes our prepared remarks, and I'll now turn it back over to the operator to begin the Q&A portion of the call.

我們準備好的發言到此結束，我現在將其轉回給接線員，開始電話的問答部分。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, if anyone would your telephone keypad. If you would it I'm preparing to ask your question, please our first question today comes from Jared Shaw from Wells Fargo.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）作為提醒，如果有人想要您的電話鍵盤。如果你願意，我正準備問你的問題，請問我們今天的第一個問題來自富國銀行的 Jared Shaw。

This is [John Roland] for Jared Shaw. So I guess just big picture, I guess, going into potentially a recessionary environment. We've heard a few banks talk about maybe tightening the credit box a little bit. I guess could you just talk about if you're thinking about doing anything similar if you're seeing any signs of hesitation or caution from borrowers on the ground?

這是 Jared Shaw 的 [John Roland]。所以我想這只是大局，我想，進入潛在的衰退環境。我們聽說有幾家銀行談到可能會稍微收緊信用額度。我想如果你看到當地借款人有任何猶豫或謹慎的跡象，你能不能談談你是否正在考慮做類似的事情？

John, thanks for the question. This is Mariner. I would -- for us, for those of you who followed us for a while, we really don't do anything different in any type of environment. So we stick to our knitting and look for the good quality opportunities, and we don't reach during the good times, and we don't retract during the tougher times. So we're kind of -- just stick to what we know and stick to doing it and how we do it. And -- so that's the backdrop for how we're making decisions.

約翰，謝謝你的提問。這是水手。我會 - 對於我們，對於那些跟隨我們一段時間的人來說，我們真的不會在任何類型的環境中做任何不同的事情。所以我們堅守崗位，尋找好的機會，順境不進，逆境不退。所以我們有點 - 堅持我們所知道的並堅持做它以及我們如何做。而且 - 這就是我們如何做出決策的背景。

As it relates to kind of what we're hearing and seeing on the ground, customers and prospects are still talking cautiously optimistically about the environment for the year. Revenue projections and conversations seem to still be pretty steady. I think the challenge that we hear from our customers really is about the hiring environment.

由於這與我們在實地聽到和看到的情況有關，客戶和潛在客戶仍在謹慎樂觀地談論今年的環境。收入預測和對話似乎仍然相當穩定。我認為我們從客戶那裡聽到的挑戰實際上是關於招聘環境的。

But as it relates to selling goods and moving goods, everybody seems to be cautiously optimistic about that. And we -- as we normally do, we give you a little look into what we see for the first quarter and pipeline remains strong for the first quarter.

但涉及到賣貨和搬貨，大家似乎都持謹慎樂觀的態度。我們 - 正如我們通常所做的那樣，我們讓您稍微了解一下我們在第一季度看到的情況，並且第一季度的管道仍然強勁。

Okay. Great. That's good color. And I guess just 1 other area. You closed the HSA acquisition in the fourth quarter. Could you just talk a little about the outlook for that -- for your competitive positioning, I guess, in that market with some pretty large players kind of dominating at this point?

好的。偉大的。這個顏色好我猜只有 1 個其他區域。您在第四季度完成了對 HSA 的收購。你能談談它的前景嗎？我猜你的競爭定位是在那個市場上，一些相當大的參與者在這一點上佔據主導地位？

This is Jim Rine. We did close, the conversion went extremely well. We picked up -- they have a very successful direct-to-employer model, and that has been our strategy moving forward. Backdrop looks good as far as on a national level, the government and those entities have been very quiet. We don't anticipate any changes as far as the need for HSAs or HSA is going away. Our pipeline looks extremely strong.

這是吉姆萊因。我們確實關閉了，轉換進行得非常順利。我們接受了——他們有一個非常成功的直接面向雇主的模式，這一直是我們前進的戰略。就國家層面而言，背景看起來不錯，政府和這些實體一直非常安靜。就 HSA 或 HSA 的需求消失而言，我們預計不會有任何變化。我們的管道看起來非常強大。

Regarding our competitors, we're obviously more focused on what we're doing but we feel like we have an extremely competitive platform, and this will allow us to deliver a better experience throughout our footprint. With what the competitors are doing, we're truly more focused on us. But we've been able to compete in this space for a long time, and we're one of the original pioneers in the space. So we feel very good about our position going forward. And we're in this space to stay, and we're excited about it.

關於我們的競爭對手，我們顯然更專注於我們正在做的事情，但我們覺得我們擁有一個極具競爭力的平台，這將使我們能夠在我們的足跡中提供更好的體驗。競爭對手在做什麼，我們真的更專注於我們自己。但我們已經能夠在這個領域競爭很長時間了，我們是這個領域的最初開拓者之一。因此，我們對未來的立場感到非常滿意。我們將留在這個空間，我們對此感到興奮。

Yes. The only thing I'd add is the technology platform and the backdrop for the business is really using the rails we have already for all of our other businesses. So it's a very leverageable business. And being a big commercial bank, largely that being largely what we do, this direct-to-business model, there's a lot of opportunity within our own customer base to continue to grow. And it's all about the enrollment season and just current customers and new commercial customers adding employees through the enrollment season.

是的。我唯一要補充的是技術平台，業務背景實際上是在使用我們已經為所有其他業務提供的軌道。所以這是一個非常有槓桿作用的業務。作為一家大型商業銀行，主要是我們所做的，這種直接面向商業的模式，我們自己的客戶群中有很多機會繼續增長。這一切都與註冊季節有關，只是現有客戶和新商業客戶在註冊季節期間增加了員工。

Thank you. Our next question is from Chris McGratty from KBW.

謝謝。我們的下一個問題來自 KBW 的 Chris McGratty。

Ram, maybe a question for you just on the balance sheet. If I'm thinking about your comments on loan to deposit, you have room there. and you can be more selective on deposits. But if I look at just the total deposits at the company, it shrunk about 8% this year. How do I -- I guess how should we think about just the pace of incremental runoff? Because it feels like you've got roughly $1 billion of cash flow coming off the bond book to fund loan growth? I'm just trying to get a sense of the moving pieces here.

拉姆，也許只是資產負債表上的問題。如果我正在考慮你對貸款存款的評論，你在那裡有空間。你可以更有選擇性地存款。但如果我只看公司的總存款，今年它縮水了約 8%。我如何 - 我想我們應該如何考慮增量徑流的速度？因為感覺你有大約 10 億美元的現金流從債券簿中為貸款增長提供資金？我只是想了解一下這裡的動人之處。

Yes. Chris, this is Mariner. I have a couple of high-level comments, and if there's more detail you want. Ram can add some color. But I think really what I would focus on, we don't really expect runoff. We expect rotation. And so it's really more about what happens to demand deposits. We have a very, very strong pipeline and ability to grow deposits.

是的。克里斯，這是水手。我有一些高級評論，如果您需要更多詳細信息。 Ram 可以添加一些顏色。但我認為我真正要關注的是，我們並不真正期待徑流。我們期待輪換。因此，更多的是關於活期存款會發生什麼。我們擁有非常非常強大的管道和增加存款的能力。

So we can bring deposits on at market rates and fund growth, no problem. So really the challenge for us, which we think we're good at is being disciplined at pricing the assets. So as we bring on loan growth, kind of as we discussed last quarter, our ability to be disciplined on maintaining and slightly growing margin is more important than what the absolute cost of the deposits are coming on.

所以我們可以以市場利率和基金增長帶來存款，沒問題。因此，我們認為自己擅長的真正挑戰是在資產定價方面受到紀律處分。因此，當我們實現貸款增長時，就像我們上個季度討論的那樣，我們在維持和略有增長的利潤率方面受到約束的能力比存款的絕對成本更為重要。

So we're not concerned about that. We're -- and we feel strongly that we can continue to price appropriately on the asset side to maintain our margin, if not grow it slightly. I don't know if you want to add anything, Ram?

所以我們對此並不擔心。我們 - 我們強烈認為我們可以繼續在資產方面適當定價以維持我們的利潤率，如果不是略有增長的話。我不知道你是否想補充什麼，Ram？

Well, the only thing I would add to that Chris is, as we said, our loan-to-deposit ratio is now 65%, right? If you look at the last couple of quarters of loan production and what's happened there, if the same pace continues, we could see our loan-to-deposit ratio trickle up to close to 70%, which we're comfortable with. As I said in my prepared comments, we managed to stay below 75% on the loan-to-deposit ratio will deposit Fund 1 to 1 of what we see on the loan growth, probably not, but that's where the $1 billion of securities that you talked about in terms of outflows comes in. And as Mariner said, we were focused on making sure we stay liquid on the balance sheet with customer acquisitions.

好吧，正如我們所說，我唯一要補充的是，我們的貸存比現在是 65%，對嗎？如果你看看過去幾個季度的貸款生產以及那裡發生的事情，如果同樣的速度繼續下去，我們可以看到我們的貸存比逐漸上升到接近 70%，我們對此感到滿意。正如我在準備好的評論中所說，我們設法將貸存比保持在 75% 以下，這將使我們在貸款增長中看到的 1 比 1 存入基金，可能不會，但這就是 10 億美元證券的地方你談到的是資金流出。正如 Mariner 所說，我們專注於確保我們通過客戶收購在資產負債表上保持流動性。

That's really great. And on the mix of your deposits, I'm looking back, pre-COVID, you were kind of in the mid-30s noninterest-bearing, you got as high as 46%, you're kind of low 40s. Now I guess how do I -- how are you thinking about just internal migration given the competitive alternatives for rates today?

那真是太棒了。關於你的存款組合，我回頭看，在 COVID 之前，你有點像 30 多歲的無息，你高達 46%，你有點低 40 多歲。現在我想我如何 - 考慮到當今具有競爭力的利率替代方案，您如何考慮內部遷移？

Yes. So I think that's a million dollar question, Chris. And when you get the answer, give us a call, so we can plan. But I think the conservative way to think about it, right, is we got down to 32% last time. Could it get to 35% or something this time? Probably. Maybe based on just history, that's possible. However, there are a lot of other things going on from the growth of our customer base in general. We've added a lot of small business customers that have a low loan-to-deposit ratio over the last few years. We've got a lot of other initiatives and customer bases. Our Aviation Corporate Trust business is relatively new, and those demand deposit balances have been growing.

是的。所以我認為這是一個價值百萬美元的問題，克里斯。當你得到答案時，給我們打電話，這樣我們就可以計劃了。但我認為保守的思考方式是，我們上次降到了 32%。這次能達到 35% 左右嗎？大概。也許僅基於歷史，這是可能的。然而，總的來說，我們的客戶群的增長還有很多其他的事情發生。在過去幾年中，我們增加了許多貸存比較低的小企業客戶。我們還有很多其他計劃和客戶群。我們的航空企業信託業務相對較新，活期存款餘額一直在增長。

So last cycle, we got down to 32% is that history repeats itself. Is the world different? Is our customer base is different. We're not sure exactly what happens. We do believe there will be some rotation from demand this year still to interest-bearing. We're just not sure how much. The internal debate we have here because we already saw a lot of that last year is has it already happened, right?

所以上個週期，我們下降到 32% 是歷史重演。世界不一樣了？是我們的客戶群不同。我們不確定到底發生了什麼。我們確實相信，今年仍然會有一些從需求到生息的輪換。我們只是不確定有多少。我們在這裡進行的內部辯論是因為我們去年已經看到很多這樣的事情已經發生了，對吧？

So that is one of the questions that we debate internally is, has that shift taken place? As everybody wants to move to higher interest-bearing deposits already taken that action. We don't really know the answer to that. But that's -- so that's some of the internal debates. But to be conservative, think about -- think about the last cycle, I suppose.

因此，我們內部爭論的問題之一是，這種轉變發生了嗎？由於每個人都想轉向更高的生息存款，因此已經採取了該行動。我們真的不知道答案。但那是 - 所以這是一些內部辯論。但要保守一點，想想——我想想想上一個週期。

That's helpful. I really appreciate it. The last one I would have is just kind of zooming out, right? If I think about the bullish comments on loan growth, call it, stable comments on margins. it would feel like the net interest income for your company has yet to peak because I think that's a narrative that's going around among bank investors where a lot of your peers are seeing margins and revenues top out? I guess would you agree or offer any thoughts on that?

這很有幫助。對此，我真的非常感激。我想要的最後一個只是縮小，對吧？如果我考慮對貸款增長的看漲評論，稱之為對利潤率的穩定評論。感覺貴公司的淨利息收入尚未見頂，因為我認為這是銀行投資者中流傳的一種說法，您的許多同行都看到利潤率和收入達到頂峰？我想你會同意或對此提出任何想法嗎？

We expect to see net interest income continue to grow because we're a growth company. Like I said earlier, 2 things we focus on would be net interest income growth based on just growth period as well as growth of the balance sheet. And then the other thing we think we can do during this environment is produce operating leverage. So, we're less worried about the absolute expense levels of the company because we're investing in our business for growth.

我們預計淨利息收入將繼續增長，因為我們是一家成長型公司。正如我之前所說，我們關注的兩件事是基於增長期的淨利息收入增長以及資產負債表的增長。然後我們認為在這種環境下我們可以做的另一件事是產生經營槓桿。因此，我們不太擔心公司的絕對費用水平，因為我們正在投資於我們的業務以實現增長。

And then on the other side, because we have a long track record of building pipeline, we think we'll continue to grow. We've been doing double-digit loan growth since 2015. And it's -- there's nothing about our business model that would suggest that we can't continue to do that. We have new markets, great new markets we've expanded into, Utah, Minneapolis, Texas, are 3 young markets for us. So we have fabulous track records in and great people on the ground and we're seeing really good traction there. And along with all of our other great markets, we see the same great opportunities and traction.

另一方面，由於我們在建設管道方面有著長期的記錄，我們認為我們會繼續增長。自 2015 年以來，我們一直在實現兩位數的貸款增長。我們的商業模式沒有任何跡象表明我們不能繼續這樣做。我們有新市場，我們已經擴展到的偉大新市場，猶他州、明尼阿波利斯、德克薩斯州，對我們來說是三個年輕的市場。因此，我們在當地擁有出色的業績記錄和優秀的人才，我們在那裡看到了非常好的牽引力。與我們所有其他偉大的市場一樣，我們看到了同樣巨大的機遇和吸引力。

And remember, we don't project or predict our loan growth based on what's happening in GDP anyway. We -- our loan growth is based on market share gains. So depending on -- regardless of what's going on economically, we think we can continue to deliver the same kind of loan growth that we've been delivering.

請記住，無論如何，我們不會根據 GDP 的變化來預測或預測我們的貸款增長。我們——我們的貸款增長是基於市場份額的增長。因此，取決於 - 無論經濟情況如何，我們認為我們可以繼續提供我們一直提供的相同類型的貸款增長。

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Our next question today comes from Nathan Race from Piper Sandler.

謝謝。 （操作員說明）我們今天的下一個問題來自 Piper Sandler 的 Nathan Race。

Yes. question on just kind of the longer term or perhaps kind of full year margin trajectory over the course of this year. as you guys kind of think about what you're paying on incremental deposits outside of the index deposits that (inaudible). Do you see some additional margin expansion potential in the back half of this year, just given maybe some lagging repricing within the loan book relative to maybe kind of the incremental cost of deposits that you guys are gathering based on some of the initiatives that you guys outlined earlier in the prepared comments, assuming that that's possible?

是的。關於今年的長期或全年利潤率軌蹟的問題。正如你們在考慮在指數存款之外的增量存款中支付的費用（聽不清）。你是否看到今年下半年有額外的利潤增長潛力，只是考慮到貸款賬簿中可能有些滯後的重新定價相對於你們根據你們的一些舉措收集的存款增量成本假設這是可能的？

Yes. Yes, Nate, this is Ram. Yes, definitely, we see some opportunity for margin expansion. If the Fed does pause, and hold, right? So the pressure on our index deposits, and as Mariner said earlier, where we are being disciplined on the loan side and pay the market rates on the deposit side, that will still be accretive to our margin. So that's been our focus. So when you think about what happened last factor, the same thing repeated itself where our margin did expand when the Fed paused.

是的。是的，內特，這是拉姆。是的，當然，我們看到了一些擴大利潤率的機會。如果美聯儲確實暫停並持有，對嗎？因此，我們指數存款的壓力，正如 Mariner 早些時候所說，我們在貸款方面受到紀律處分，並在存款方面支付市場利率，這仍然會增加我們的利潤率。所以這是我們的重點。因此，當您考慮最後一個因素發生的事情時，當美聯儲暫停時我們的保證金確實擴大了，同樣的事情又重演了。

Okay.

好的。

And the margin expansion benefits, sorry, margin benefit expansion also comes from the rotation that we talk about from you look at the next 12 months cash flows to have a securities book that has a 2% exit yield. And obviously, our loan pricing is much better than that, and we pick up yield on that.

利潤率擴張的好處，抱歉，利潤率擴張也來自我們談論的輪換，從你看未來 12 個月的現金流量到有一個有 2% 退出收益率的證券賬簿。顯然，我們的貸款定價比那個好得多，我們從中獲得了收益。

Got you. And within that context, curious if you guys had the start rate on deposits at the end of the quarter. if you can exclude or isolate the index deposits?

明白了在這種情況下，很好奇你們在本季度末是否有存款的起始利率。是否可以排除或隔離指數存款？

We don't disclose that, Nate. We don't get into that the details.

我們不會透露，內特。我們不談細節。

Okay. Fair enough. And changing gears Ram, I think in your prepared comments, you mentioned a starting point for expenses in the $245 million to $247 million range for the fourth quarter. Did I get that correctly?

好的。很公平。換檔拉姆，我想在你準備好的評論中，你提到了第四季度 2.45 億美元至 2.47 億美元的支出起點。我理解正確了嗎？

No. $225 million to $227 million.

2.25 億美元至 2.27 億美元。

Okay. Great. And within that guidance, I mean, as you guys kind of think about some additional modernization initiatives that you guys are outlining on the core system side of things or otherwise, how does that kind of factor into just kind of overall expense growth for this year in light of the inflationary environment that we're seeing for wages and so forth these days.

好的。偉大的。在該指南中，我的意思是，當你們考慮一些在核心系統方面或其他方面概述的額外現代化舉措時，這種因素如何影響今年的整體支出增長鑑於我們最近看到的工資等方面的通貨膨脹環境。

So I mean, at high level, I mean -- so the run rate that Ram's talking about is inclusive of whatever spending we're doing to modernize and invest in the business. It's all in there. in that step off that he's referring to.

所以我的意思是，在高層次上，我的意思是 - 所以拉姆所說的運行率包括我們為現代化和投資業務所做的任何支出。都在裡面了。在他所指的那一步。

Yes, just to on the $227 million that I talked about, obviously, there's inflation on top of that new contracts are coming up. We are making some selective investments in people or in technology. And then as I said in the first quarter, we'll have the reset of payroll taxes and other benefits expense and then there's obviously less -- a couple of less salary days. So I would expect the trajectory from the $227 million for the first quarter to go up just because of the pressure from primarily seasonal increase in expenses.

是的，就我談到的 2.27 億美元而言，很明顯，除了即將簽訂的新合同之外，還有通貨膨脹。我們正在對人員或技術進行一些選擇性投資。然後就像我在第一季度所說的那樣，我們將重新設置工資稅和其他福利費用，然後顯然會少一些——少幾個工資日。因此，我預計第一季度 2.27 億美元的軌跡會因為主要是季節性支出增加的壓力而上升。

And as you guys look at kind of criticized cost side trends across the portfolio, obviously, nonperformers are pretty negligible amount as we ended the year. Are you seeing anything across portfolios and you're in discussions with clients that would perhaps cause you guys to come in kind of below your historical charge-off guidance that I think you guys have spoken to around the 25% to 35% historically.

當你們看到整個投資組合中受到批評的成本方面趨勢時，很明顯，在我們年底時，表現不佳的數量可以忽略不計。你是否看到了跨投資組合的任何事情，並且你正在與客戶進行討論，這可能會導致你們低於你的歷史沖銷指導，我認為你們在歷史上已經談到了大約 25% 到 35%。

When you say below, do you mean more losses? Or do you mean better performance? I might ask that question, which way you're asking the question?

當你在下面說的時候，你的意思是更多的損失嗎？或者你的意思是更好的性能？我可能會問這個問題，你問這個問題的方式是什麼？

I would think that perhaps charge-offs this year can come in below or better than the historical kind of trajectory you talked about, Mariner.

Mariner，我認為今年的沖銷可能會低於或高於你所說的歷史軌跡。

Well, I guess I would suggest that we -- as has been referenced on the call already, it's a softer environment. I wouldn't suggest us to -- we're going to do a lot better or anything because for any reason. I mean, we expect that we can continue to perform the way we have been performing. I don't see anything that on the rise that makes it any anything better based on any information that's out there. I think we can just keep doing what we've been doing.

好吧，我想我會建議我們——正如電話中已經提到的那樣，這是一個更溫和的環境。我不會建議我們 - 我們會因為任何原因做得更好或任何事情。我的意思是，我們希望我們能夠繼續以我們一直在執行的方式執行。根據現有的任何信息，我沒有看到任何可以使它變得更好的東西。我認為我們可以繼續做我們一直在做的事情。

Okay. Great. I appreciate you guys taking the questions.

好的。偉大的。感謝你們提出問題。

Thank you. This is all the questions we have today. So I will now hand back over to the management team for any closing remarks.

謝謝。這就是我們今天的所有問題。因此，我現在將把任何結束語交還給管理團隊。

All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us today. The replay will be up on the website shortly. And if you have follow-up questions, you can reach us at 816-860-7106. Thank you, and have a great day.

好的。好吧，謝謝大家今天加入我們。重播將很快出現在網站上。如果您有後續問題，可以撥打 816-860-7106 聯繫我們。謝謝你，祝你有美好的一天。

Thank you, everyone, for joining today's call. You may now disconnect your lines, and have a lovely day.

謝謝大家參加今天的電話會議。你現在可以斷開你的線路，並有一個美好的一天。