Frontier Group Holdings Inc (ULCC) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Frontier Group Holdings quarter three 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Frontier Group Holdings 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作人員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, David Erdman, Senior Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我謹將會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係高級總監大衛·厄德曼。請繼續。

Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings call. On the call with me in speaking order are Barry Biffle, Chief Executive Officer; Jimmy Dempsey, President; Bobby Schroeter, Chief Commercial Officer; and Mark Mitchell, Chief Financial Officer. Each will deliver brief prepared remarks, but before they do, I'll recite the customary safe harbor provisions.

謝謝大家，大家下午好。歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財報電話會議。與我一同參加電話會議的有：執行長 Barry Biffle；總裁 Jimmy Dempsey；商務長 Bobby Schroeter；以及財務長 Mark Mitchell。每位發言者都將作簡短的準備好的發言，但在他們發言之前，我將宣讀慣例的安全港條款。

During this call, we will be making forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially from those predicted in these forward-looking statements. Additional information concerning risk factors, which could cause such differences are outlined in the announcement we released moments ago, along with reports we file with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

在本次電話會議中，我們將發表一些前瞻性聲明，這些聲明存在風險和不確定性。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性聲明中預測的結果有重大差異。有關可能導致此類差異的風險因素的更多信息，請參閱我們剛才發布的公告以及我們向美國證券交易委員會提交的報告。

We'll also be discussing non-GAAP financial measures, actual results of which are reconciled to the nearest comparable GAAP measure in the appendix of the earnings announcement. And as well, we'll be talking about stage adjusted unit metrics, which are based on 1,000 miles.

我們也將討論非GAAP財務指標，其實際結果將在獲利公告的附錄中與最接近的可比較GAAP指標進行核對。此外，我們還將討論基於 1,000 英里的階段調整單位指標。

So I'll give the floor to Barry to begin his prepared remarks. Barry?

那麼，我將把發言權交給巴里，讓他開始發表準備好的演講。巴里？

Thanks, David, and good afternoon, everyone. We delivered third quarter results per share at the midpoint of our guidance range, demonstrating disciplined execution as we navigated competitive fare pressures and excess peak capacity through the rigorous cost management. Operationally, our performance was noteworthy in September and October, ranking third and fourth, respectively, in completion factor among domestic carriers, underscoring our reliability and operational strength.

謝謝你，大衛，大家下午好。第三季每股收益達到預期範圍的中點，這反映了我們在應對競爭激烈的票價壓力和高峰期運力過剩問題時，透過嚴格的成本管理展現出的嚴謹執行力。在營運方面，我們在 9 月和 10 月的表現非常出色，在國內航空公司中，航班完成率分別排名第三和第四，這凸顯了我們的可靠性和營運實力。

Looking ahead, the competitive landscape is shifting in our favor. With our largest low-fare competitor significantly reducing capacity, we anticipate a more balanced supply-demand environment. This positions us to accelerate key commercial initiatives aimed at driving RASM growth and reinforcing our competitive advantage. Our strategy remains clear: to be the leading low-fare carrier in the top 20 U.S. metros. We are leveraging enhancements to our loyalty program and upgraded product offerings, including the rollout of first-class seating by spring, an important milestone in elevating customer experience and revenue opportunities. At the same time, we will continue to aggressively manage costs to preserve our industry-leading cost advantage, which is central to delivering sustainable margin improvement.

展望未來，競爭格局正朝向我們有利的方向轉變。由於我們最大的低價競爭對手大幅削減運力，我們預期供需環境將更加平衡。這使我們能夠加快關鍵商業舉措的實施，旨在推動 RASM 成長並鞏固我們的競爭優勢。我們的策略依然明確：成為美國前 20 大都會地區領先的低價航空公司。我們正在利用忠誠度計畫的改進和升級的產品供應，包括春季推出頭等艙座位，這是提升客戶體驗和收入機會的重要里程碑。同時，我們將繼續積極控製成本，以保持我們領先業界的成本優勢，這對於實現可持續的利潤成長至關重要。

I want to thank our 15,000 Team Frontier members, including pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, airport staff and more, whose dedication enables us to deliver the exceptional service and execute on our strategy every day.

我要感謝我們15,000位Frontier團隊成員，包括飛行員、空服員、機械師、機場工作人員等等，正是他們的奉獻精神使我們能夠每天提供卓越的服務並執行我們的策略。

I'll now turn the call over to Jimmy for commercial review. Jimmy?

現在我將把電話交給吉米進行商業審核。吉米？

Thanks, Barry, and good afternoon, everyone. In the third quarter, total revenue was $886 million on 4% lower capacity year-over-year. Revenue per passenger rose to $106, up 1% from the prior year, supported by an 81% load factor, nearly 3 points higher than last year. RASM was $0.0914 and stage-adjusted RASM improved 2% year-over-year to $0.0876, reflecting disciplined capacity deployment.

謝謝你，巴里，大家下午好。第三季總營收為 8.86 億美元，產能較去年同期下降 4%。每位乘客的收入增至 106 美元，比上年增長 1%，這得益於 81% 的客座率，比去年高出近 3 個百分點。RASM 為 0.0914 美元，經階段調整後的 RASM 年成長 2% 至 0.0876 美元，反映出有紀律的產能部署。

For the fourth quarter, we expect capacity to be roughly flat year-over-year with an average stage length of approximately 890 miles. Importantly, competitive seat capacity is projected to decline by 2-percentage-points, including significant reductions by Spirit Airlines, which is exiting 36 overlapping routes and reducing frequencies by 30% across 41 others in December.

預計第四季運力將與去年同期基本持平，平均賽段長度約為 890 英里。值得注意的是，競爭性座位容量預計將下降 2 個百分點，其中包括 Spirit Airlines 的大幅削減，該公司將於 12 月退出 36 條重疊航線，並在其他 41 條航線上減少 30% 的航班頻次。

This dynamic should drive sequential improvement in stage-adjusted RASM and supports our confidence as we plan for 2026. We expect to return to growth next year given the developing competitive landscape, and we'll provide formal 2026 capacity guidance on our next earnings update. To capitalize on emerging opportunities, we announced 42 new routes launching through early 2026, expanding our presence in major metro areas such as Atlanta, Baltimore, Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale and Houston, along with new international destinations, including Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Turks and Caicos and the Bahamas.

這種動態應該會推動分期調整後的 RASM 逐步改善，並增強我們為 2026 年制定計劃的信心。鑑於競爭格局的發展，我們預計明年將恢復成長，我們將在下次獲利更新中提供正式的 2026 年產能指引。為了抓住新興機遇，我們宣布將於 2026 年初開通 42 條新航線，擴大我們在亞特蘭大、巴爾的摩、夏洛特、芝加哥、達拉斯-沃斯堡、底特律、勞德代爾堡和休斯頓等主要都市區的業務，並新增危地馬拉、洪都拉斯、墨西哥、特克斯和凱科斯群島以及巴哈馬等國際目的地。

These additions reinforce our commitment to scale and strengthen our network. Finally, I'm pleased to welcome Jeff Matthew as our new Chief Information Officer. Jeff brings deep experience leading large-scale IT organizations and will accelerate our digital transformation, enhancing customer engagement and driving efficiency.

這些新增成員鞏固了我們擴大規模和加強網路的承諾。最後，我很高興地歡迎傑夫·馬修擔任我們新的資訊長。Jeff 在領導大型 IT 組織方面擁有豐富的經驗，他將加速我們的數位轉型，增強客戶參與度並提高效率。

I'll now hand it over to Bobby to provide a brief loyalty update.

現在我將把發言權交給鮑比，讓他簡要報告一下客戶忠誠度狀況。

Thanks, Jimmy. The significant investments in our loyalty assets, including Frontier Miles, our co-brand credit card, Go Wild Pass and Discount Den generated approximately $7.50 in revenue per passenger in the third quarter, up more than 40% year-over-year, driven by enhancements that resonate with higher income, higher credit customers.

謝謝你，吉米。我們對忠誠度資產（包括 Frontier Miles、我們的聯名信用卡、Go Wild Pass 和 Discount Den）的大量投資，在第三季度為每位乘客創造了約 7.50 美元的收入，同比增長超過 40%，這主要得益於能夠引起高收入、高信用客戶共鳴的改進措施。

Frontier Miles now offers the most attainable elite status in the industry with meaningful benefits like premium seat upgrades, free bags and unlimited companion travel. We've expanded redemption options through miles for bundles and improved boarding for our most loyal customers. In addition, cardholders received two free check bags, a benefit we introduced last year that has been very well received, and we recently introduced free companion passes with the credit card. These initiatives are fueling engagement and position us to double loyalty revenue per passenger over time, creating a durable high-margin revenue stream.

Frontier Miles 現在提供業內最容易獲得的精英會員資格，以及諸如高級座位升等、免費行李和無限次同行旅行等豐厚福利。我們擴大了哩程兌換選項，方便顧客購買套餐，並改善了最忠實顧客的登機體驗。此外，持卡人還可獲得兩件免費托運行李額度，這是我們去年推出的一項非常受歡迎的福利；最近，我們還推出了信用卡免費同行票。這些措施正在提升用戶參與度，並使我們能夠隨著時間的推移，使每位乘客的忠誠度收入翻一番，從而創造持久的高利潤收入來源。

I'll turn it over to Mark now for the financial update.

現在我把麥克風交給馬克，讓他回報一下財務狀況。

Thanks, Bobby, and good afternoon, everyone. Recapping our cost performance during the third quarter. Our nonfuel operating expenses were $729 million, down 6% sequentially, driven largely by fleet impacts associated with spare engine inductions and related sale-leaseback financing gains. The increase in nonfuel expenses over the prior year quarter was primarily related to a onetime $38 million nonrecurring credit tied to a legal settlement recognized in the 2024 quarter and fleet-related growth.

謝謝你，鮑比，大家下午好。回顧我們第三季的成本控製表現。我們的非燃料營運支出為 7.29 億美元，季減 6%，主要原因是備用引擎引進和相關的售後回租融資收益對車隊的影響。與去年同期相比，非燃料支出增加主要是由於 2024 年季度確認的一筆與法律和解相關的 3800 萬美元一次性非經常性收入以及車隊相關增長。

On a unit basis, adjusted CASM ex fuel in the third quarter was $0.0753, 9% higher year-over-year due largely to a 15% reduction in aircraft utilization resulting from our disciplined capacity deployment primarily on off-peak days. Fuel expense was $234 million, down 10% year-over-year, driven mainly by a 5% decrease in the average fuel cost, 4% lower capacity and slightly higher fuel efficiency. We generated 105 ASMs per gallon in the quarter, 2% higher than the corresponding '24 quarter.

按單位計算，第三季調整後的不含燃油的每單位可用座位公里成本為 0.0753 美元，年增 9%，這主要是由於我們在非高峰日採取了嚴格的運力部署措施，導致飛機利用率下降了 15%。燃料支出為 2.34 億美元，年減 10%，主要原因是平均燃料成本下降 5%，產能下降 4%，以及燃料效率略有提升。本季我們每加侖汽油產生了 105 個 ASM，比 2024 年同期成長了 2%。

Third quarter net loss was $77 million, including $1 million of tax expense, resulting in a net loss per share of $0.34 at the midpoint of our guidance. We ended the quarter with $691 million in total liquidity, in addition, post quarter end, we issued a $105 million par value note in a private placement that is secured by substantially all of the spare parts and tooling related to our fleet of A320 family aircraft. The note matures in 2032.

第三季淨虧損為 7,700 萬美元，其中包括 100 萬美元的稅項支出，以我們預期的中位數計算，每股淨虧損為 0.34 美元。本季末，我們的總流動資金為 6.91 億美元。此外，季度結束後，我們透過私募發行了面值為 1.05 億美元的票據，該票據以我們 A320 系列飛機機隊幾乎所有的備件和工具作為擔保。該票據將於 2032 年到期。

Pro forma for this transaction, liquidity on September 30 was approximately 21% of trailing 12 months revenue. Briefly recapping fleet activity during the quarter, we took delivery of 2 A321neo aircraft, both financed with sale-leaseback transactions, bringing our total aircraft fleet to 166 at quarter end. We expect another 10 aircraft deliveries in the fourth quarter, our largest quarterly allocation of the year, comprised of 7 A320neos and 3 A321neos, of which all have committed sale-leaseback financing.

根據本交易的備考情況，截至 9 月 30 日的流動資金約為過去 12 個月收入的 21%。簡要回顧本季機隊活動，我們接收了 2 架 A321neo 飛機，這兩架飛機均透過售後回租交易融資，使我們的飛機機隊總數在季度末達到 166 架。我們預計第四季將再交付 10 架飛機，這是我們今年最大的季度交付量，其中包括 7 架 A320neo 和 3 架 A321neo，所有這些飛機都已承諾售後回租融資。

Following the agreement with Pratt executed in July, we took delivery of 6 GTF spare engines in the third quarter, all of which were financed with sale-leaseback transactions. We expect to take delivery of another 10 GTF spare engines in the fourth quarter, which we also expect to finance with sale-leaseback transactions.

繼 7 月與 Pratt 達成協議後，我們在第三季度接收了 6 台 GTF 備用發動機，所有這些發動機都是透過售後回租交易融資的。我們預計在第四季度收到另外 10 台 GTF 備用發動機，我們也計劃透過售後回租交易為其融資。

Turning to guidance. As provided in this afternoon's announcement, we expect fourth quarter adjusted earnings between $0.04 and $0.20 per diluted share on capacity, which is expected to be roughly flat year-over-year. The average all-in fuel cost is expected to be $2.50 per gallon, which is $0.09 higher relative to the prior quarter forward curve indication.

尋求指導。正如今天下午的公告中所述，我們預計第四季度調整後每股攤薄收益將在 0.04 美元至 0.20 美元之間，產能方面預計與去年同期基本持平。預計平均綜合燃油成本為每加侖 2.50 美元，比上一季遠期曲線指示值高出 0.09 美元。

Our fourth quarter guidance reflects an expected improvement in competitive overlap capacity versus the prior year quarter, continued progress across key commercial initiatives, fleet-related financing activities and jet fuel prices, which are elevated relative to the prior quarter guidance expectation. Lastly, we do not expect a material tax provision in the fourth quarter due to a cumulative tax loss carryforward, which will largely offset any tax expense.

我們第四季的業績預期反映了與上一季相比，競爭重疊產能的預期改善、關鍵商業舉措的持續進展、機隊相關融資活動以及航空燃油價格（相對於上一季的預期而言較高）。最後，由於累積稅收虧損結轉，我們預計第四季度不會產生重大稅收準備金，這將很大程度上抵消任何稅收支出。

Thanks again, everyone. And operator, we're ready to begin the Q&A segment.

再次感謝大家。操作員，我們準備開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作說明）

Ravi Shanker, Morgan Stanley.

拉維‧香克爾，摩根士丹利。

Great, thanks everyone. Just a couple of questions on the competitive capacity here. Obviously, you guys are being pretty disciplined right now with flat growth next quarter. But what's the rest of the industry potentially fills in for the capacity that's coming out here and we end up in roughly the same situation that we had before?

太好了，謝謝大家。關於這裡的競爭力，我還有幾個問題。顯然，你們目前在保持下個季度成長平穩方面做得相當出色。但是，其他行業可能會如何填補這裡出現的產能缺口，最終我們是否會陷入與之前大致相同的情況？

I don't think that's likely. Thanks for the question. Look, the capacity that's coming out right now is some of the lowest cost capacity and some of the lowest yielding customers. The only ones that could actually profit off that is actually us. So, I just don't see that being replaced by big airlines. It's not their business.

我覺得不太可能。謝謝你的提問。你看，現在推出的這些產能成本最低，但客戶收益也最低。唯一能從中獲利的其實只有我們。所以，我不認為大型航空公司會取代它。這不關他們的事。

Understood. Maybe a quick follow-up. Kind of how long do you think the tailwind here lasts? And is this something that is really strong out of the gate kind of given the disruption? Or do you think it gets kind of better, if you will, from your perspective, the long way it goes on?

明白了。或許需要快速跟進。你覺得這股順風大概還能持續多久？考慮到目前的混亂局面，這是否意味著它一開始就表現得非常強勁？或者，從你的角度來看，你認為隨著時間的推移，情況會逐漸好轉嗎？

Well, I wish I knew the answer to the pace of that. I mean it's dribbling pretty good tailwind right now. Could that tailwind go from 30 miles an hour to 100 miles an hour? Possibly it increases, but we see a lot of tailwinds over the next year. At some point, it's going to change. But right now, we see a pretty good path to a very good environment for Frontier.

唉，我真希望知道那個速度的答案。我的意思是，現在風力還蠻大的，算是順風。順風風速有可能從每小時 30 英里增加到每小時 100 英里嗎？可能會增加，但我們預計未來一年會有很多利多因素。總有一天，情況會改變的。但就目前而言，我們看到 Frontier 的發展前景相當不錯，並有望獲得非常好的發展環境。

So thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Atul Maheswari, UBS.

阿圖爾‧馬赫什瓦里，瑞銀集團。

Good evening. Thanks a lot for taking my question. I have a question on the government shutdown. There's just recent news that if a deal is not reached by November 7, we're looking at 10% cuts across the top 40 airports. If that were to come to pass, what would be the financial impact on Frontier? Presumably, this is good for RASM for the fourth quarter, but then you would end up carrying excess costs. So maybe can you help us dimensionalize relative to your current guidance, like how much of an incremental risk this would be?

晚安.非常感謝您回答我的問題。我有一個關於政府停擺的問題。最新消息稱，如果到 11 月 7 日仍未達成協議，排名前 40 的機場將面臨 10% 的削減。如果這種情況發生，會對 Frontier 造成怎樣的財務影響？從理論上講，這對第四季度的 RASM 來說是好事，但這樣一來，最終會導致成本超支。所以，您能否根據您目前的指導意見，幫我們評估一下這會帶來多大的額外風險？

We -- listen, we've heard about this in the last 20 minutes just like you did. My knee-jerk reaction is we need to figure out how to make sure we can accommodate all of our customers. I guess the good news here is that we're in a low demand period of November. I mean the high demand, obviously, is Thanksgiving. So, I think we'll be able to accommodate everyone. And so I would actually expect on balance, this is probably a positive just simply because of the RASM that we're going to generate on less flights. But I think that the customer disruption is more my larger concern. But I don't see this being a major impact to us.

聽著，我們──我們和你們一樣，在過去的20分鐘也聽說了這件事。我的第一個反應是，我們需要想辦法確保能夠滿足所有客戶的需求。我想好消息是，現在是11月，這是一個需求低迷的時期。我的意思是，需求量最高的顯然是感恩節。所以，我想我們應該能夠容納所有人。因此，總的來說，我預計這可能是一件好事，因為我們將透過減少航班來獲得 RASM。但我認為，客戶體驗中斷才是我更擔心的問題。但我認為這不會對我們造成重大影響。

Okay. Got it. That's fair. And then as my follow-up, Boeing recently announced that is expecting certification to MAX 10 next year and with some aircraft in inventory that it already has that is ready to be delivered upon certification. So, assuming this does come to pass and this happens in '26 and the legacies get hold of this aircraft, they're likely to use this higher gauge asset to expand the basic economy type of offering, which directly competes with the product that you have in the marketplace. So, the question then is how much of a risk does this present to Frontier next year and beyond? And what would you do to counter this risk going forward?

好的。知道了。這很合理。然後，作為我的後續報道，波音公司最近宣布，預計明年將獲得 MAX 10 的認證，並且其庫存中已經有一些飛機，一旦獲得認證即可交付。所以，假設這種情況真的發生了，並且在 2026 年發生，而傳統航空公司獲得了這架飛機，他們很可能會利用這種更高規格的資產來擴大基本經濟型產品，這將直接與你在市場上擁有的產品競爭。那麼，問題在於，這會為 Frontier 公司明年及以後帶來多大的風險？那麼，您會採取哪些措施來應對未來可能出現的這種風險呢？

I think the main risk is probably anyone holding the residual value of a 737-100. I don't think it's a challenge to us. I think if you look at the situation, we see less capacity in our markets, not more. And I don't see basic economy improving. I mean just think about that relatively definite math. It doesn't improve your margins to expand basic economy selling product below your cost. So, I don't think that's going to be a major opportunity. You've seen across the industry, domestic profits have been under pressure. So, I think that I think cooler heads are going to prevail on capacity over the next year. This may enable them to be more efficient, but I think you actually see the lesser efficient aircraft leave the United States.

我認為主要風險可能在於持有737-100殘值的人。我認為這對我們來說不是挑戰。我認為，如果你觀察目前的情況，我們會發現我們的市場產能減少了，而不是增加了。而且我認為基本經濟狀況不會改善。我的意思是，想想那些相對確定的數學問題。以低於成本的價格銷售基礎經濟型產品並不能提高利潤率。所以，我認為這不會是一個重要的機會。整個行業的情況都表明，國內利潤一直面臨壓力。所以，我認為在未來一年裡，理性的思考將在產能問題上佔上風。這或許能讓他們更有效率，但我認為實際上效率較低的飛機反而會離開美國。

Okay. Thanks for that and good luck with the rest of the year.

好的。謝謝，祝你今年剩下的日子一切順利。

Thank you, thanks for being on.

謝謝，謝謝你參與。

Brandon Oglenski, Barclays.

Brandon Oglenski，巴克萊銀行。

Comrades. Good afternoon and thanks for taking the question from the people of comm union of New York. Barry, well, there is going to be free bus travel here. So, I don't know that might be a competitive mode looking forward. But Barry, in all seriousness, can you talk to how Spirit cutting in November has maybe changed the pricing dynamic here closer in on the fourth quarter? Because I suspect that they were pretty close in booked to begin with.

同志們。下午好，感謝您接受紐約工會成員的提問。巴里，這裡將提供免費巴士服務。所以，我不知道這是否會成為未來的一種競爭模式。但巴里，說真的，你能談談 Spirit 在 11 月的降價可能會如何改變第四季末的價格走勢嗎？因為我懷疑他們一開始就預訂得非常接近。

Yeah, I think, look, I mean, look, we were really excited, I would say, two months ago when things started changing over there, and we started seeing some book away. And then you got to, I guess, probably second week of September. And unfortunately, what we believe is their book away caused them to drop their fares dramatically. And so we saw a significant drop to fares that had been improving, by the way. I mean, on our last call, we were staring at advanced yields going up considerably year-over-year and then they went down.

是的，我想，你看，我的意思是，兩個月前，當那邊的情況開始發生變化，我們開始看到一些書籍出版時，我們真的很興奮。然後就到了，我猜大概是九月的第二週吧。不幸的是，我們認為他們的預訂方式導致他們大幅降低了票價。因此，我們看到票價大幅下降，而此前票價一直在上漲。我的意思是，上次通話時，我們看到高級收益率同比大幅上升，然後就下降了。

Now we're getting into a better phase. So, the fares are now restoring. It did do damage to September and again to October. But we're getting into the capacity cut phase. And I think this will give a sugar high to them for RASM, right, because they would consolidate flights. But it's starting to show up and be meaningful to us. And I don't think it's going to benefit this quarter that much. But like this morning, we just -- we haven't had a chance to flow it through, but they pulled out of another five cities. So, I expect that this continues to improve, and we think it's pretty meaningful. Where they have cut, we've seen high single digits plus RASM improvements where they're cutting. So this is going to continue. I think this is going to be really meaningful for Frontier.

現在情況正在好轉。所以，票價現在正在恢復正常。它對9月份和10月份都造成了影響。但我們即將進入產能削減階段。我認為這會讓他們獲得更高的 RASM 收益，因為他們會合併航班。但它開始顯現出來，並對我們產生意義。我認為這對本季不會有太大好處。但就像今天早上，我們還來不及仔細核實，他們就又退出了另外五個城市。因此，我預計這種情況會繼續改善，我們認為這很有意義。在他們削減開支的地方，我們看到了高個位數的成長，而且在他們削減開支的地方，RASM 也得到了改善。所以這種情況還會持續下去。我認為這對 Frontier 來說意義非凡。

Okay. I appreciate that response. And you guys talked a lot about loyalty on this call. I mean can you give us your initial impact from Southwest maybe recently? And more importantly, especially as you look to launch First Class, like are you seeing more momentum on that angle?

好的。感謝您的回覆。你們在這次通話中談了很多關於忠誠的話題。我的意思是，您能否談談您最近加入西南航空後的第一印象？更重要的是，尤其是在您考慮推出頭等艙的時候，您是否看到這方面勢頭更強勁了？

Yeah. So, look, I mean, we haven't gotten the benefit of First Class yet, but we'll work backwards from your question, and Jimmy or Bobby can chime in. But First Class is going to be wildly accretive, right, because we haven't had that product, and we know the demand is there. So that's going to be worth several points next year. But I think if you look at the loyalty, there's no real benefit, I don't think necessarily from Southwest. It's mainly all the investments we've made over the last year. I don't know, Bobby, if you want to kind of add to that?

是的。所以，你看，我的意思是，我們還沒有享受到頭等艙的待遇，但我們會從你的問題倒推，吉米或鮑比可以補充一些信息。但頭等艙將會帶來巨大的收益成長，對吧？因為我們以前沒有推出過這類產品，而且我們知道市場有需求。所以明年這將為我贏得好幾分。但我覺得，從忠誠度來看，並沒有真正的好處，我覺得西南航空未必能帶來什麼好處。這主要是我們過去一年來的所有投資。鮑比，我不知道你是否想補充什麼？

Yeah. This is Bobby. So, we talked about what we added quite a bit in terms of benefits that we've had over the past really 1.5 years, 2 years, a lot of that actually kind of building up to this past year as well as we transformed what we're providing some of the elite tiers, the accessibility we're providing that. So, look, in the end, we've created a program that is the most rewarding in the sky. And it is something where people can get to these elite tiers much faster than you see with other airlines. They actually are getting those benefits where it might be more difficult to see those at other airlines as well.

是的。這是鮑比。所以，我們討論了過去一年半到兩年裡，我們在福利方面增加了很多東西，其中很多實際上都是為了去年做準備的，同時我們也改變了我們為一些精英級別提供的服務，以及我們提供的服務的可及性。所以，最終，我們創造了一個空中最有價值的物品。而且，人們可以透過這家航空公司更快地晉升到這些精英級別，這比其他航空公司要快得多。他們確實能享受這些福利，而其他航空公司可能很難提供這些福利。

We've talked before, you get a much higher conversion rate on seat upgrades at 80% on our top tiers. They're getting 80% upgrades to our top premium seat upgrade there. So, they're also getting free bagged, and we've added free companions on not only the higher elite tiers, but also that's unlimited companion travel, but also on the credit card, you're getting companion passes as you spend and hit certain milestones.

我們之前已經說過，我們最高等級的機票升等轉換率高達 80%。他們可以獲得我們頂級高級座位升級的 80% 機會。所以，他們還可以免費獲得行李，我們不僅在高階精英會員中增加了免費同行者，而且還增加了無限次同行旅行，此外，信用卡用戶還可以隨著消費和達到某些里程碑獲得同行者通行證。

So, just a lot that we've put into this, and you're seeing the engagement there. Look, you have a lot of people out there that are disenfranchised with their other programs, whether those are airlines or other types of travel programs or other credit cards. We're providing an incredible value there, and you're seeing people not only engage in terms of acquisition, but also spend. I mean spend was up tremendously year-over-year because people are wanting to move up that ladder in terms of elite status because they see the benefits that they're getting.

所以，我們在這方面投入了很多，你們也看到了大家的參與。你看，很多人對他們的其他項目感到不滿，無論是航空公司、其他類型的旅行項目還是其他信用卡項目。我們在那裡提供了巨大的價值，你會看到人們不僅在客戶獲取方面參與進來，而且還在消費。我的意思是，消費額較去年大幅成長，因為人們想要提升自己的菁英地位，因為他們看到了自己所獲得的好處。

And I would just add, I mean, and Brandon, you're old enough to remember, I mean, the Starwood program in the 2000s was just amazing, and they kind of used their costs and so forth to build that loyalty and that credit card was one of the consistently one of the top-ranked cards. And now that we've kind of got it underway, we sat down 1.5 years, 2 years ago and said, we've got the lowest cost. We should be able to provide the most value and loyalty.

我還要補充一點，布蘭登，你年紀夠大了，應該記得，2000 年代的喜達屋會員計劃真是太棒了，他們利用成本等等來建立忠誠度，而那張信用卡一直是排名最高的信用卡之一。現在我們基本上已經啟動了這個項目，大約在1.5到2年前，我們坐下來討論過，我們已經找到了最低的成本。我們應該能夠提供最大的價值和忠誠度。

And so, we have made methodical changes over the last year, 1.5 years, as Bobby mentioned, and now we're starting to see the benefits of that. And it's early. But when you see 40% jump to the loyalty ecosystem year-over-year, we're on a track. And so, we're doing in the $7, $7.5 range, and we can see that doubling in pretty short order. So, we're pretty excited about it. I think it's one of the key pillars to getting back to sustainable margins, but it's a big part of what we're doing.

因此，正如鮑比所提到的那樣，我們在過去一年到一年半的時間裡進行了有條不紊的改變，現在我們開始看到這些改變帶來的好處。現在還早。但當看到忠誠度生態系統的用戶數量年增 40% 時，我們就走在正確的道路上了。所以，我們現在的價格在 7 美元到 7.5 美元之間，而且我們可以看到，這個價格很快就會翻倍。所以，我們對此感到非常興奮。我認為這是恢復永續利潤率的關鍵支柱之一，也是我們正在做的事情的重要組成部分。

And the savings that people get are real like I mean it's thousands of dollars a year that you can save if you use this card. And to Bobby's point, when he mentioned kind of the disenfranchise, what we're seeing is the customer that just flies a couple of times a year on one of the big airlines, they don't have the actual tier that they need to get really upgraded. They're number 36 on the upgrade list. They never get upgraded. And so, when they take that spend and put it on our card, they actually get rewarded with real loyalty. They get real upgrades, and that upgrade is not going to be upfront plus next year, it's going to be first class. So, I think that we've just started. We're kind of in the first inning or two, but we are going to close the gap on loyalty revenues with the big guys, and this is going to be a material part of our discussions, I think, in the quarters to come.

而且人們獲得的節省是實實在在的，我的意思是，如果你使用這張卡，一年可以節省數千美元。正如鮑比所說，當他提到某種程度上的權利剝奪時，我們看到的是，那些一年只乘坐幾次大型航空公司航班的乘客，他們沒有獲得真正升級所需的實際等級。他們在升級名單上排名第 36 位。它們從未被升級過。因此，當他們用我們的卡片進行消費時，他們實際上會獲得真正的忠誠度獎勵。他們將獲得真正的升級，而且這種升級不會是預先支付，明年就會是頭等艙。所以，我認為我們才剛開始。我們現在還處於起步階段，但我們將縮小與大公司在忠誠度收入方面的差距，我認為，這將是我們未來幾季討論的重要組成部分。

Yeah. And just on the just a quick add to on First Class. I mean, obviously, we're going to be selling that, and we anticipate a variety of the income coming from just people buying it outright. But that is a product that, again, those disenfranchised customers with other programs have the opportunity to get upgraded to that they would never see. And with us, they will be able to see that at a much lower rate. Therefore, they'll get it faster. So, we're excited about that.

是的。再簡單補充一下，頭等艙也升級了。我的意思是，很顯然，我們會出售這款產品，我們預計收入來源多種多樣，包括人們直接購買該產品的收入。但對於那些在其他專案中被剝奪了權利的客戶來說，這是一個他們原本永遠無法獲得的升級機會。而透過我們，他們將能夠以更低的價格看到這一點。因此，他們會更快收到。所以，我們對此感到很興奮。

And number 36 on the upgrade sounds good to me. I'm usually way behind that.

我覺得升級方案中的第 36 項不錯。我通常遠遠落後於那個人。

So thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Savi Syth, Raymond James.

薩維·賽斯，雷蒙德·詹姆斯。

Hey guys, This is Carter on for Savi. I was wondering what you guys are seeing on pricing in your Spirit overlap markets relative to your other markets more broadly? And are you seeing anything different in Fort Lauderdale where you guys most recently added service?

大家好，我是卡特，今天替薩維報道。我想了解一下，你們在烈酒重疊市場的價格走勢，與你們其他更廣泛的市場相比，有何不同？在你們最近新增服務的勞德代爾堡，你們有沒有發現什麼不同的情況？

Look, I mean, I think I mentioned this a while ago, we saw pricing go down after they filed. We've seen that kind of recover now. And we've seen our pricing obviously go up in those markets. So, I wouldn't say it's over, but and then obviously, they're trimming capacity and pulling out, so there is no more pricing in some of those. So, I think it's stabilized.

你看，我的意思是，我想我之前提到過，在他們提交申請後，我們看到價格下降了。我們現在已經看到這種復甦了。我們已經看到，在這些市場，我們的價格明顯上漲了。所以，我不會說事情已經結束了，但很顯然，他們正在削減產能並撤出，所以有些產品已經沒有價格了。所以，我認為情況已經穩定下來了。

Got it. And then just for my follow-up, I want to clarify, does your earlier comment about returning to growth in 2026 mean you're no longer planning on having flattish capacity through the first half of '26? Or is that more of just a comment of returning to growth in the back half?

知道了。最後，我想追問一下，您之前提到的 2026 年恢復成長是否意味著您不再計劃在 2026 年上半年保持產能穩定？或者這更多的是在評論下半年將恢復成長？

It's a very dynamic situation right now. I mean we're watching the competitive situation. And based on how that plays out, we have the ability to flex up or down. But we believe there will be opportunities for us in our cost structure to kind of replace that capacity in several places. And if so, that will dictate growth. But it's -- we'll update everybody by Q1 in our next call because I think most of this we believe most of this should be sorted out by then.

目前形勢瞬息萬變。我的意思是，我們正在關注競爭情勢。根據事態發展，我們有能力向上或向下調整。但我們相信，在我們的成本結構中，我們將有機會在多個方面替換掉這部分產能。如果真是如此，那將決定成長方向。但是——我們會在下次電話會議上向大家報告第一季的情況，因為我認為到那時大部分問題都應該能夠解決。

Got it. Thanks.

知道了。謝謝。

Michael Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

麥可‧林伯格，德意志銀行。

This is Shannon Doherty on for Mike. Barry, earlier this year, we were talking about double-digit margins by the summer of '25. Obviously, Liberation Day threw a monkey wrench into that plan. But do you see a path back to double-digit margins in '26 with the current competitive landscape? And if so, can you help us bridge just there from today?

這裡是香農·多爾蒂，她替麥克發言。巴里，今年早些時候，我們還在討論到 2025 年夏天實現兩位數利潤率。顯然，解放日打亂了這項計畫。但鑑於目前的競爭格局，您認為2026年公司利潤率有可能恢復到兩位數嗎？如果可以的話，您能否幫助我們從今天開始建造這個橋樑？

Well, look, I mean, we didn't plan on all of the things that happened in the turmoil in the front half of this year and what has happened. But I can tell you that as far as our pillars of kind of path back to sustainable profitability, look, I think doubling our loyalty revenues from where it is, introducing first class, getting that premium, getting kind of our fair share of that premium as well as the fair share of loyalty. I think the competitive capacity reduction, as we've talked about, I mean, that's going to be a huge tailwind for us going into next year.

嗯，你看，我的意思是，我們並沒有預料到今年上半年動盪局勢中發生的一切，以及之後發生的一切。但我可以告訴你，就我們重回可持續盈利之路的支柱而言，我認為，要將我們的忠誠度收入翻一番，推出頭等艙，獲得溢價，獲得我們應得的溢價份額以及應得的忠誠度份額。我認為，正如我們之前討論過的，產能競爭的加劇，將是我們明年面臨的巨大利多。

And then we're going to double down on our costs. I know everybody kind of accepts the inflation, but we're going to double down. We hope to have all that ready to lay out at the next call. But you're going to see kind of another wave of us kind of pushing further down on cost to ensure that we maintain a wide margin of cost advantage versus the industry. And we're going to continue to improve our operation. Our complaints are down dramatically year-over-year. We continue to be kind of 30%, 40% down every month year-over-year in complaints, and that's kind of tied to what's happened with our improvement in the operations.

然後我們還要加倍投入成本。我知道大家都接受了通貨膨脹，但我們會加倍投入。我們希望在下次電話會議上把所有資料都準備好。但你會看到我們再次加強降低成本，以確保我們保持相對於產業較大的成本優勢。我們將繼續改進營運。我們的投訴量較去年同期大幅下降。我們每個月的投訴量都比去年同期下降了大約 30% 到 40%，這與我們營運方面的改進密切相關。

So, I'm not going to declare the day we're going to get back to any margin target, but I can tell you that there's plenty of fundamentals that are in our favor at this point.

所以，我不會宣布我們何時才能恢復到任何保證金目標，但我可以告訴你，目前有很多基本面因素對我們有利。

And maybe a follow-up on like thinking our growth for next year. Will Spirit cutting deeper than 20% next year, maybe a lot more be the determining factor of unlocking growth again? I mean, clearly, you are carrying a lot of extra costs, taking down aircraft utilization and you want to get back to growth. So, I'm just trying to figure out what gets you there.

或許還可以跟進一下，例如思考我們明年的成長計畫。Spirit明年削減幅度是否會超過20%，甚至更大，這是否會成為其能否再次實現成長的決定性因素？我的意思是，很明顯，你們承擔了很多額外的成本，降低了飛機利用率，而你們又想恢復成長。所以，我只是想弄清楚是什麼讓你達到那個目標。

Yeah, Shannon, it's Jimmy here. Look, we're watching what's happening in terms of network deployment across the industry, including Spirit at the moment. And there are certainly opportunities that are existing. You've seen us launch some stuff across the United States in the last couple of months that fill in for some capacity that we think is going to be adjusted in their network. Whether that drives material growth next year or not, we don't know.

是的，香農，我是吉米。你看，我們正在密切關注整個產業的網路部署情況，包括目前Spirit公司的網路部署情況。當然，機會是存在的。在過去的幾個月裡，你們已經看到我們在美國各地推出了一些產品，以填補我們認為他們網路中將會調整的一些容量缺口。這是否會推動明年的實質成長，我們不得而知。

We've got to see how things develop in the next 2 or 3 months. Hence, we're kind of deferring to the next earnings call to give you an insight into our growth. But clearly, we have a substantial body of aircraft that we can deploy to infill for any disruptive capacity that comes out of the marketplace in the next couple of months. And so, we're positioned for that. As I said in the last earnings call, it does take time from a growth perspective to hire and train pilots and get them deployed in our network. And that's typically a 6- to 8-month process. And so, any meaningful growth will occur sometime Q2 or Q3 or Q4 next year, depending on our view over the next couple of months and what we want to do in terms of growing the airline into opportunities that crop up.

我們得看看未來兩三個月事態會如何發展。因此，我們將延後到下次財報電話會議上向大家詳細介紹我們的成長情況。但很顯然，我們擁有大量飛機，可以部署以填補未來幾個月內市場上任何可能出現的運力缺口。所以，我們已經為此做好了準備。正如我在上次財報電話會議上所說，從成長的角度來看，招募和培訓飛行員並將他們部署到我們的網路中確實需要時間。這通常需要 6 到 8 個月的時間。因此，任何有意義的成長都將在明年第二季、第三季或第四季發生，這取決於我們對未來幾個月的看法，以及我們希望如何抓住出現的機遇，推動航空公司發展。

Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

杜安‧芬尼格沃斯 (Duane Pfennigwerth)，Evercore ISI。

Hey, thank you. Just one question for me for the team. How has your thinking about consolidation of the ULCC sector evolved or changed over the last 90 days?

嘿，謝謝。我只有一個問題想問團隊。過去90天裡，您對超低成本能源產業整合的看法發生了什麼樣的變化？

Good to hear from you, Duane. I don't know that it's changed. I think we're going to see -- and I've said this before, I think you're going to see less capacity in the United States. And I don't know if that's a U.S. ULCC thing. I think it's just a domestic capacity thing. And I think it will be far beyond just the ULCC space. I think you're going to see a lot less seats. Consolidation is one of the mechanisms to help facilitate that, but it's not the only way to get there. But I do think there'll be less seats. There's another carrier that is not a ULCC that we suspect is going to shrink a considerable amount over the next year. So, I think a seat is a seat and the more that go out, it's probably constructive to the supply and demand balance as we move into '26.

很高興收到你的來信，杜安。我不知道情況是否有改變。我認為我們會看到——我以前也說過——我認為美國的產能將會減少。我不知道這是否是美國超低碳能源公司（ULCC）的特有現象。我認為這只是國內產能的問題。我認為這將遠遠超出超低成本發電領域。我認為座位數量會大大減少。整合是促進此目標實現的機制之一，但並非實現此目標的唯一途徑。但我認為座位數會減少。還有一家非超低成本航空公司，我們懷疑它在未來一年內規模會大幅縮減。所以，我認為席位就是席位，出去的席位越多，對我們進入 2026 年的供需平衡可能就越有利。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

Scott Group，Wolfe Research。

This is Ryan Capozzi on for Scott. So, aircraft utilization has been down pretty significantly so far this year. Just curious how we should think about utilization levels into 4Q and really more so into next year?

這是瑞恩·卡波齊替斯科特報道。因此，今年以來飛機利用率已大幅下降。我只是好奇我們該如何看待第四季以及明年的產能利用率水準？

Yeah. I mean from a utilization standpoint, I mean, I think to Jimmy's point, when you look at the lead time that's needed to ramp that up, I mean, from the environment that we sit in today, the overall macro environment, I think you'll see consistency and where we've been Q3 to Q4 from a utilization standpoint. But then as both Jimmy and Barry have mentioned, as you look into '26, we need to evaluate what that landscape looks like and how we want to move forward with utilization. Obviously, the higher you're able to drive that, that brings down unit cost. So, there's positive there, but you just need to balance that with the larger macro.

是的。我的意思是，從利用率的角度來看，我認為正如吉米所說，當你考慮到提升產能所需的提前期時，我的意思是，從我們目前所處的環境，整體宏觀環境來看，我認為你會看到產能利用率方面與我們第三季度到第四季度的情況保持一致。但正如吉米和巴里都提到的那樣，展望 2026 年，我們需要評估當時的情況以及我們希望如何推進利用率。顯然，驅動力越強，單位成本就越低。所以，這裡面有正面的因素，但你需要將其與更大的宏觀因素相平衡。

Yeah. And just to give a little context, we have -- there's two things going on with the fleet. One is you have a delivery order book that can provide growth, and then you can also utilize your assets more. And what we've been doing in the last 8 to 9 months is reducing some utilization on the asset base. What you're likely to see as you progress through next year is growth more on peak days and off-peak days through new aircraft deliveries, which is healthy growth coming into the business.

是的。簡單介紹一下背景，目前艦隊方面有兩件事正在發生。一方面，你的訂單簿可以帶來成長；另一方面，你也可以更有效地利用你的資產。在過去的 8 到 9 個月裡，我們一直在做的就是降低部分資產的使用率。隨著明年業務的推進，您可能會看到高峰期和非高峰期都出現成長，這主要得益於新飛機的交付，這對公司而言是一種健康的成長。

Whether we choose to do higher utilization or not, that's something that we have to consider going into next year to see where the competitive capacity environment looks.

無論我們是否選擇提高產能利用率，這都是我們明年需要考慮的問題，我們需要看看競爭激烈的產能環境會如何發展。

Got it. Appreciate the color there. And then I guess on competitive capacity, I think you had mentioned 2 percentage points of improvement in 4Q. Any sense of what level of reductions you're expecting in 1Q here?

知道了。欣賞那裡的色彩。然後，關於競爭力，我想您之前提到第四季度提高了 2 個百分點。您預計第一季會有多少降幅？

Look, we haven't quantified the level of reductions that we expect. As people solidify their schedules going into Q1, we'll have more of an insight into that in the coming month or 2.

你看，我們還沒有量化我們預期的減排幅度。隨著人們在進入第一季後確定他們的日程安排，我們將在未來一兩個月內對此有更深入的了解。

Jamie Baker, JPMorgan Securities.

Jamie Baker，摩根大通證券。

Hey, good afternoon, This is James on for Jamie. A lot of questions about domestic capacity. Maybe just a question on the international routes you guys announced and what you're seeing there, particularly how RASM is trending into 4Q and 2026?

嘿，下午好，我是詹姆斯，替傑米為您報道。關於國內產能有很多疑問。我想問一下關於你們宣布的國際航線以及你們觀察到的情況，特別是 RASM 在第四季和 2026 年的發展趨勢？

Yeah, I mean, so just you're talking about the fourth quarter starts, we, we've been seeing some pretty good results happy with the new raps specifically as you brought up within the, Latin American kind of VFR, or Latin VFR routes, that are launching sort of in the holiday, Christmas 3 kings peak period, so, pretty excited about the results that we've been seeing so far.

是的，我的意思是，就像你剛才提到的第四季度開始的時候，我們看到了一些相當不錯的結果，特別是對新的航線感到滿意，正如你提到的，在拉丁美洲的VFR航線，或者說拉丁美洲VFR航線，這些航線是在假期、聖誕節和三王節高峰期推出的，所以，我們對目前為止看到的結果感到非常興奮。

Okay, got it. Then for my second question, we're seeing smaller regional airlines. Enter the market. I'm just in the past few years, are you seeing any, particularly in the routes that made Spirit exited, are you seeing any of those airlines come in to fill that capacity that you're now competing with?

好的，明白了。那麼，我的第二個問題是，我們看到一些規模較小的區域航空公司。進入市場。就過去幾年而言，您是否看到，尤其是在導致 Spirit 退出的航線上，是否有航空公司進入填補您現在與之競爭的運力空缺？

No, we're not really seeing that. I mean, look, I think the landscape has become pretty clear. I mean, Frontier is, has been the one to outplay and outlast, and so I don't think that.

不，我們並沒有看到這種情況。我的意思是，你看，我認為情況已經相當明朗了。我的意思是，Frontier 一直以來都是那個技高一籌、堅持到最後的隊伍，所以我並不這麼認為。

I don't see a new entrant trying to come in on some of the things that we're doing.

我沒看到有新競爭者試圖涉足我們正在做的某些事情。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Tom Fitzgerald,TD Cowen.

湯姆·菲茨杰拉德，TD Cowen。

Hi everyone, thanks so much for the time. I'm curious on the loyalty program, if you're -- where you're seeing the most strength in sign-ups and whether it's just kind of any place where you have a base or a decent enough schedule density of those particular markets that stand out?

大家好，非常感謝大家抽空。我對會員忠誠度計畫很感興趣，你們發現哪些地區的註冊量最大？是不是只要你們有一定基礎或在特定市場有足夠的課程安排密度，註冊量就會特別高？

Yeah. Look, it's obviously where we have bases. We've got 13 bases and then we've got large concentrations, right, in other cities, Raleigh, Baltimore, New York and so forth. But I mean, it's where you would expect. I mean customers, you've got to be able to earn it when you fly and you've got to be able to use it. So, it kind of fits our geography. But I think the big thing that's changed, I mean, obviously, to see this kind of growth when we're not actually growing the airline right now is actually really impressive.

是的。你看，很明顯，我們在那裡設有基地。我們有 13 個基地，然後在其他城市，像是羅利、巴爾的摩、紐約等地，也有大量的基地。但我的意思是，這正合你意。我的意思是，顧客們，你們必須能夠在飛行時獲得獎勵，並且能夠使用它。所以，這在某種程度上很符合我們的地理位置。但我認為最大的變化是，很明顯，在我們目前並沒有真正擴大航空公司規模的情況下，能夠看到這種成長確實令人印象深刻。

Yeah, I mean, to echo what Barry said, you're going to see it where there's relevance on both the network and the program and where you can -- you're looking for aspirational opportunities where you can go and then, frankly, the benefits you can get from that. And we're hitting on all those things.

是的，我的意思是，就像巴里說的那樣，你會看到它在電視台和節目中都具有相關性，而且你可以在——你尋找有抱負的機會，在那裡你可以去哪裡，坦白說，你可以從中獲得什麼好處。我們正在著手處理所有這些事情。

That's really helpful. And then just curious on first-class seating as you kind of just keep going up market. Is there a -- do you assume any like time for that -- those products to mature in the market? Or do you think it hits right away? And I'm wondering if there's any like kind of if you're upgrading a lot at the beginning to kind of entice people to get them familiar with the product if then it shows up in the revenue, but if it's a lot of it's upgrades or if there's like a noncash component.

這真的很有幫助。然後，我對頭等艙座位就很好奇，因為你感覺自己一直在朝著更高級別的市場邁進。你認為這些產品需要一段時間才能在市場上成熟嗎？還是你認為它會立即生效？我想知道，如果在初期進行大量升級，是否會吸引人們熟悉產品，從而增加收入？但如果大部分收入都來自升級，或是其中有非現金部分，又會怎麼樣？

Yeah, thanks. So look, I mean, we're not expecting it to go to full maturity. That could take honestly, years. I mean -- but you're going to see an immediate benefit in the product moving to first from just having Upfront Plus. It took us about a year for Upfront Plus. At first, a lot of people got it for free and so forth. And our top Elites will get upgraded into it, which is what helps kind of feed the loyalty asset ecosystem. But you're going to mature as more people figure it out.

嗯，謝謝。所以你看，我的意思是，我們並不期待它能完全成熟。說實話，這可能需要數年時間。我的意思是——但是，從僅擁有 Upfront Plus 升級到首發產品，您將立即看到產品帶來的好處。Upfront Plus 專案我們花了大約一年才完成。起初，很多人都是免費獲得的等等。我們的頂級精英會員將會升級到這個級別，這有助於完善忠誠度資產生態系統。但隨著越來越多人明白這一點，你也會逐漸成熟的。

I mean, at the end of the day, we've observed in the United States a huge change in the appetite for leisure customers to pay for first class seats. And we believe that given our cost structure, we can deliver a first-class seat cheaper than anyone. And so we're going to obviously benefit from not only having a premium product, but it's going to be priced at a level that you won't see for the big guys.

我的意思是，歸根結底，我們已經觀察到美國休閒旅客對購買頭等艙機票的意願發生了巨大變化。我們相信，憑藉我們的成本結構，我們可以比任何人都更便宜地提供頭等艙座位。因此，我們顯然不僅會受益於擁有優質產品，而且它的價格也會低於那些大公司的價格水平。

So, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised that we're going to be priced under a premium economy seat in many cases. But yet for us, that could double the revenue we're getting per passenger. So, it's great for us, and I think it's going to be great for consumers, but it could take 1 to 3 years to get -- reach full maturity. But it will be huge. I think it's going to be huge, not just for our kind of our revenue on board, but also in the credit card because at the end of the day, I mean, that frustration about people getting upgraded at the big airlines, you're going to get real value with Frontier with that product, but it will take time.

所以，我的意思是，在很多情況下，我們的票價低於高級經濟艙的票價，我不會感到驚訝。但對我們來說，這可能會使我們從每位乘客那裡獲得的收入翻倍。所以，這對我們來說是好事，我認為這對消費者來說也是好事，但可能需要 1 到 3 年的時間才能完全成熟。但它將會非常巨大。我認為這將意義重大，不僅對我們這類航空公司的機上收入，而且對信用卡業務來說也是如此，因為歸根結底，人們對於大型航空公司升艙的不滿情緒，在 Frontier 航空的這款產品中將會獲得真正的價值，但這需要時間。

Daniel McKenzie, Seaport Global.

Daniel McKenzie，Seaport Global。

Hey, good afternoon guys. Thanks for the time here. I just have 2 house cleaning questions and then one other question just following up on Duane's. But the house cleaning questions, it looks like full-time equivalents are down 6% year-over-year, but unit labor costs are up 10%. So I'm just wondering if you can square that dynamic. And I guess what I'm really wondering here is if it's just the beginning of sort of unit cost derisking for future labor deals. And then the second housecleaning question is, what percent of the network you expect will be premiumized, so to speak, by year-end '26?

嘿，各位下午好。感謝您抽出時間。我只有兩個關於房屋清潔的問題，還有一個問題只是跟杜安的問題有關。但就家事服務而言，全職員工人數似乎年減了 6%，但單位勞動成本卻上升了 10%。所以我想知道你是否能解釋這種動態關係。我真正想知道的是，這是否只是未來勞動交易中降低單位成本風險的開端。第二個需要清理的問題是，您預計到 2026 年底，網路中有多少百分比會高階化？

Well, there are several things going on, on the salary wage and benefits. I mean we, we stopped hiring flight attendants and what happens when you're looking at in your numbers, we actually were largely kind of rightsized, I guess, on the flight attendants, but we carried a lot -- hundreds and hundreds of extra pilots. So, I think it's a little -- I think that's just a mathematical nuance. As we get back to hiring flight attendants as an example, I think you'll see the numerator and denominator change. And I'm sorry, what was the second question?

嗯，關於薪資、工資和福利方面，有很多事情正在發生。我的意思是，我們停止招募空服員，當你查看我們的數據時，你會發現，實際上我們在空服人員方面已經基本達到了合理規模，但我們卻擁有大量——成百上千名額外的飛行員。所以，我認為這有點——我認為這只是一個數學上的細微差別。當我們回到招募空服員這個例子時，我想你會發現分子和分母都改變了。不好意思，第二個問題是什麼來著？

Just the percent of the network that will be premiumized by year-end '26.

到 2026 年底，將實現付費化的網路百分比。

Okay. Well, 100% of the fleet will actually have the first class product. And look, it's 8 seats. We've got 202, give or take. I mean, it's going to be 4% of your seats. So, it's pretty rough -- it's pretty simple math, right? If you take 4% of your seats and we end up getting paid close to double what we were getting on the others, once this is rolling out, this is a material jump in your RASM.

好的。嗯，實際上所有飛機都將配備一流產品。你看，它有8個座位。我們有202個左右。我的意思是，這將佔到你們座位總數的 4%。所以，這很簡單——就是簡單的數學題，對吧？如果你拿走 4% 的座位，而我們最終獲得的收入幾乎是其他座位的兩倍，一旦這項政策實施，你的 RASM 將大幅成長。

Yeah. Second question here, just following up on Duane's question. Some of Spirit's creditors are pushing their management team for a merger and Frontier is the most -- one of the most logical airlines, of course. And I guess just to kind of push on that a little bit further is, has that ship sailed as far as Frontier is concerned, just given the network overlap? Or is that -- I guess my question really is if that were to become a possibility at some point in the future, is that network overlap manageable, say, with carve-outs or givebacks?

是的。第二個問題，只是接著杜安的問題問一下。Spirit 的一些債權人正在敦促其管理團隊進行合併，而 Frontier 是最有可能的合併對象——當然，也是最合乎邏輯的航空公司之一。我想進一步探討的是，考慮到網路重疊，對於 Frontier 來說，這件事是否已經錯過了最佳時機？或者說——我真正的問題是，如果將來某個時候這種情況成為可能，那麼這種網路重疊是否可控，例如透過劃出部分或做出讓步？

I'm not going to comment on merger. We spent a lot of time on this in the past. I've spoken about it a lot. We're not going to comment on I'll go back to, we see significant opportunity for Frontier focusing on our business and what we see is pretty significant tailwinds to our business due to competitive capacity. And we don't see that changing. We've not seen anything that's going to change that opinion. And again, every day, it seems to get better for us. I mean they just closed another 5 cities or announced closing another 5 cities today, including like Phoenix, St. Louis, Milwaukee. So, these are all key cities for Frontier. So, we see pretty good upside, but we're not talking about a merger.

我不會對合併事宜發表評論。我們過去在這方面投入了大量時間。我多次談到這件事。我們不會對此發表評論。我會回到正題，我們看到 Frontier 專注於自身業務的巨大機遇，而且由於競爭激烈的運力，我們看到了對我們業務相當大的利好因素。我們預計這種情況不會改變。我們還沒有看到任何能夠改變這種看法的事情。而且，似乎每天我們的情況都在好轉。我的意思是，他們今天剛關閉了另外 5 個城市，或宣布關閉另外 5 個城市，包括鳳凰城、聖路易斯、密爾瓦基等。所以，這些都是 Frontier 的關鍵城市。所以，我們看到了相當不錯的上漲空間，但我們說的不是合併。

Yeah, understood thanks so much.

好的，明白了，非常感謝。

Christopher Stathoulopoulos, SIG.

克里斯托弗·斯塔索洛普洛斯，SIG。

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question, Barry, I wanted to ask for an update on the revenue initiatives because there's a lot going on here. I heard $715 per passenger in the third quarter. But the comment you made two questions ago, I think it was first class priced. I think you gave a price point or you quantified a certain percentage below a basic economy seat or what I took to be an entry-level product versus, I'm assuming network peers.

午安.謝謝你回答我的問題，巴里。我想了解收入成長計畫的最新進展，因為這方面有很多事情正在發生。我聽說第三季每位乘客的費用是 715 美元。但你前兩個問題提到的那句話，我覺得是頭等艙的價格。我認為你給了一個價格點，或者量化了比基本經濟艙座位低的某個百分比，或者我理解的入門級產品與同行業其他產品相比的價格。

I said premium economy on one of the big airlines, not basic.

我說的是某大航空公司的高級經濟艙，不是普通經濟艙。

Okay. Okay. Maybe -- I think that's an interesting point. If you could speak to is that in select markets? And I think you said that that's going to take 2 to 3 years to mature. I think that's an important point and one that I hope you could give some more color.

好的。好的。也許吧——我覺得這是一個很有趣的觀點。請問這是否僅限於特定市場？我想你說過，這需要2到3年的時間才能成熟。我認為這一點很重要，希望您能對此進行更詳細的闡述。

Look, I think we'll get somewhere between 60% to 80% of the benefit within the first year, right? I think for it to fully mature, it will take you a few years. But it will be additive incremental -- it will be positive ROI within months. I mean -- and so -- and when you think about the pricing, I'll just go back to the pricing. I mean, if you look where we fly today, it's not uncommon for us to have a $49 fare and maybe the legacies have got a $69, $79 basic economy, but then they're $400 or $500 for first class. And so I think you could see us easily being in that $200 to $250 range for first class. And it's going to be a smacking deal for anybody that wants to fly first class, but it's going to be a huge improvement. I mean we're going to take 4 seats off the plane that were actually the lowest fares that we were selling, and they're now going to become the highest fares we're selling. That's a huge move on your RASM when you do something like that. So this will be a massive improvement to us.

我認為我們第一年就能獲得 60% 到 80% 的收益，對吧？我認為它完全成熟還需要幾年時間。但這將是逐步累積的——幾個月內就能產生正的投資報酬率。我的意思是——所以——當你考慮定價時，我還是回到定價問題上來吧。我的意思是，看看我們現在坐的飛機，49 美元的票價並不罕見，而傳統航空公司的經濟艙基本票價可能是 69 美元或 79 美元，但頭等艙票價卻高達 400 美元或 500 美元。所以我認為，我們的頭等艙票價很容易就能達到 200 到 250 美元的區間。對於任何想體驗頭等艙的人來說，這將是一筆非常划算的交易，而且將是一次巨大的改進。我的意思是，我們要把飛機上原本票價最低的 4 個座位，改成票價最高的座位。當你這樣做的時候，這對你的 RASM 來說是一個很大的舉動。所以這對我們來說將是一個巨大的進步。

But we -- I mean, look, the pricing is going to be dynamic by route, by day and depending upon the situation.

但是——我的意思是，你看，價格會根據路線、日期和具體情況而動態變化。

Okay. Great. And the comment on the down to competitive capacity for the fourth quarter, I'm guessing that's your system or select routes. And then if there are any markets where you're seeing, I guess, better or worse in so far as additions or deletions from competitors?

好的。偉大的。至於第四季運力下降到有競爭力的程度，我猜是指你們的系統還是某些特定航線。那麼，您是否觀察到某些市場，例如競爭對手的產品增減情況，出現了更好或更糟的情況？

Yeah. I mean there's a number of routes where -- I mean, Jimmy spoke about this in his prepared remarks. But Jimmy, I don't know if you want to remind them of the numbers there.

是的。我的意思是，有很多途徑可以實現這一點——吉米在他的準備好的演講稿中也談到了這一點。但是吉米，我不知道你是否想提醒他們那裡的數字。

Yeah, we've seen a significant change in 2 areas. One is where they've exited markets. And so we've seen them exit about 36 routes that overlap with us. And we've also seen a significant reduction in frequencies, about 30% across 41 other markets. So, it's a considerable change in overlap capacity between us and Spirit. And it's across the system in a lot of cases. But the predominance particularly in the West.

是的，我們在兩個方面看到了顯著的變化。一是他們已經退出的市場。因此，我們看到他們退出了大約 36 條與我們重疊的路線。我們還發現，在其他 41 個市場中，播放頻率也大幅下降了約 30%。因此，我們與Spirit之間的重疊能力發生了相當大的變化。而且在很多情況下，這種情況遍及整個系統。但尤其在西方國家，這種現象較為普遍。

Great. Thank you.

偉大的。謝謝。

I am showing no further questions at this time. I would now like to turn it back to the Chief Executive Officer, Barry Biffle, for closing remarks.

我目前沒有其他問題要問。現在我謹將發言權交還給執行長巴里·比夫爾，請他作總結發言。

I want to thank everybody for calling in. We're really excited about the future and things have really kind of turned around from a foundational perspective. So I look forward to updating you again and talking to you again in the new year.

感謝大家的來電。我們對未來感到非常興奮，從根本上來說，情況已經發生了翻天覆地的變化。所以我期待在新的一年再次向您報告最新情況並與您再次交流。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝您參加今天的會議。節目到此結束。您現在可以斷開連線了。