聯合航空 (UAL) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, and welcome to United Airlines Holdings earnings conference call for the second quarter of 2025. My name is Krista, and I will be your conference facilitator today. (Operator Instructions)

早安，歡迎參加聯合航空控股 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我叫克里斯塔，今天我將擔任你們的會議主持人。（操作員指示）

This call is being recorded and is copyrighted. Please note that no portion of the call may be recorded, transcribed or rebroadcast without the company's permission. Your participation implies your consent to our recording of this call. If you do not agree with these terms, simply drop off the line.

本次通話正在錄音，並受版權保護。請注意，未經本公司許可，不得錄製、轉錄或重播通話的任何部分。您的參與意味著您同意我們錄製本次通話。如果您不同意這些條款，請直接掛斷電話。

I will now turn the presentation over to your host for today's call, Kristina Edwards, Managing Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在，我將把演示交給今天電話會議的主持人、投資者關係董事總經理克里斯蒂娜·愛德華茲 (Kristina Edwards)。請繼續。

Thank you, Krista. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to United's second-quarter 2025 earnings conference call.

謝謝你，克里斯塔。大家早安，歡迎參加美聯航 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。

Yesterday, we issued our earnings release, which is available on our website at ir.united.com. Information in yesterday's release and the remarks made during this conference call may contain forward looking statements which represent the company's current expectations which are based upon information currently available to the company.

昨天，我們發布了財報，可在我們的網站 ir.united.com 上查閱。昨天的財報中的信息以及本次電話會議中的言論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述代表了公司基於當前掌握的信息所做出的當前預期。

A number of factors could cause actual results to differ materially from our current expectations. Please refer to our earnings release, Form 10-K and 10-Q and other reports filed with the SEC by United Airlines Holdings and United Airlines for a more thorough description of these factors.

許多因素可能導致實際結果與我們目前的預期有重大差異。請參閱我們的收益報告、10-K 表和 10-Q 表以及聯合航空控股和聯合航空向美國證券交易委員會提交的其他報告，以獲得這些因素的更詳細描述。

Unless otherwise noted, we will be discussing our financial metrics on a non-GAAP basis on this call. Please refer to the related definitions and reconciliations in our press release. For reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to most directly comparable GAAP measures, please refer to the tables at the end of our earnings release.

除非另有說明，我們將在本次電話會議上以非 GAAP 為基礎討論我們的財務指標。請參閱我們新聞稿中的相關定義和對帳。有關這些非 GAAP 指標與最直接可比較的 GAAP 指標的對賬，請參閱我們收益報告末尾的表格。

Joining us on the call today to discuss our results and outlook are Chief Executive Officer, Scott Kirby; Executive Vice President and Chief Operations Officer, Toby Enqvist; Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, Andrew Nocella; and Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Mike Leskinen. In addition, we have other members of the executive team on the line available for Q&A.

今天參加電話會議討論我們的業績和前景的有首席執行官 Scott Kirby、執行副總裁兼首席營運官 Toby Enqvist、執行副總裁兼首席商務官 Andrew Nocella 和執行副總裁兼首席財務官 Mike Leskinen。此外，我們還有其他執行團隊成員可以在線上解答疑問。

And now I'd like to kick the call over to Scott.

現在我想把電話轉給史考特。

Thanks, Kristina, and good morning, everyone. The second quarter was yet another proof point that the United Next strategy continues to work and that the two brand-loyal revenue diverse airlines continue to generate the bulk of industry profits. I'm extremely proud of the team for executing a strong operation and navigating through a volatile macro period and unique short-term issues that impacted United at Newark while still managing to grow earnings and margins for the first half of the year.

謝謝，克里斯蒂娜，大家早安。第二季再次證明 United Next 策略繼續發揮作用，而這兩家忠誠於品牌、收入多元化的航空公司繼續創造大部分行業利潤。我為團隊感到非常自豪，他們執行了強有力的行動，度過了動蕩的宏觀時期和影響紐瓦克聯合航空的獨特短期問題，同時仍然設法在上半年實現收益和利潤的增長。

Newark faced unique challenges this quarter. With the help and partnership with the FAA and DOT, it has rebounded stronger and has been the best performing airport in the New York City area. But I know that everyone, including us, cares more about the future than the past. So I'm going to start today with the two macro drivers of our industry: supply and demand.

本季紐瓦克面臨獨特的挑戰。在美國聯邦航空局和交通部的幫助和合作下，該機場強勁反彈，成為紐約市地區表現最好的機場。但我知道，包括我們在內的每個人都更關心未來而不是過去。所以今天我將從我們產業的兩個宏觀驅動因素開始：供給和需求。

From a supply perspective, it's deja vu all over again. This is almost the exact same setup that we had a year ago at this time with weak RASM results across the industry, leading to supply cuts, starting in mid-August, leading to better margin results which then led to strong stock price performance.

從供應角度來看，這又是似曾相識的情況。這幾乎與一年前的情況完全相同，當時整個行業的 RASM 結果疲軟，導致從 8 月中旬開始供應減少，從而帶來更好的利潤率，進而帶來強勁的股價表現。

But demand also matters in this equation. And demand, while it stabilized, was about 5 points weaker in the first half of the year than we were expecting at the start of the year. As we look closely at the data, we've had a hypothesis, which seems increasingly correct.

但在這個等式中需求也很重要。儘管需求趨於穩定，但今年上半年的需求比我們年初預期的低了約 5 個百分點。當我們仔細觀察數據時，我們有一個假設，這個假設似乎越來越正確。

Demand was weak for the last five months due to high levels of uncertainty for both businesses and consumers. I'm sure that's not a shocking thesis. But in the past few weeks, the level of uncertainty has declined. The tax situation is settled after the reconciliation bill pass. The geopolitical situation in the Middle East appears to have stabilized. And while tariffs are not yet certain, I think the market in most businesses have a much better read on how they'll manage in a narrower range of outcomes.

由於企業和消費者都面臨高度不確定性，過去五個月需求疲軟。我確信這不是一個令人震驚的論點。但過去幾週，不確定性程度有所下降。和解法案通過後，稅務狀況就解決了。中東地緣政治局勢似乎穩定下來。雖然關稅尚未確定，但我認為大多數企業的市場對於如何在較窄的結果範圍內進行管理有更好的理解。

And encouragingly, that higher level of certainty has translated into a meaningful inflection point in demand. It's only three weeks' worth of data. Andrew will give you more detail. But as uncertainty has declined, we've seen an improvement in book revenue, including a double-digit acceleration in business demand.

令人鼓舞的是，這種更高層次的確定性已經轉化為需求的有意義的轉折點。這只是三週的數據。安德魯將向您提供更多詳細資訊。但隨著不確定性的下降，我們看到圖書收入有所改善，包括商業需求的兩位數成長。

So to summarize the macro. Supply is adjusting once again, just like it did last year. Demand feels to us like it is inflected upward and is returning toward the normal trend line we expected at the start of the year. And bigger picture, for United, the industry and United industry-specific transformation we've been discussing over the last few years continues to play out.

總結一下宏觀。就像去年一樣，供應再次進行調整。我們感覺需求呈上升趨勢，正在回歸年初預期的正常趨勢線。從更大角度來看，對於美聯航而言，過去幾年我們一直在討論的產業和美聯航產業特定轉型仍在繼續發揮作用。

One, revenue diversity, and that includes basic economy just as well as premium, is the only formula that works in the US to have industry-leading margins. Two, the two brand loyal airlines continue to just gradually win share quarter over quarter and the advantages that we have are structural, permanent, irreversible and they're growing, and it's simply not practical to copy them. Three, cost convergence, specifically at the high-cost airports, is making the economics of flying at those airports for low-cost carriers very challenging.

首先，收入多元化，包括基本經濟艙和高級經濟艙，是美國實現領先業界利潤率的唯一有效方法。第二，這兩家品牌忠誠的航空公司繼續逐季逐步贏得市場份額，我們的優勢是結構性的、永久的、不可逆轉的，而且這種優勢還在不斷增長，複製它們是不切實際的。第三，成本趨同，特別是在高成本機場，使得廉價航空在這些機場飛行的經濟效益變得非常具有挑戰性。

For what it's worth, the only remaining successful LCC around the globe in my view is Ryanair. And guess what? That's because they're the only LCC that stayed true to their founding principles and don't fly to high-cost airports like London, Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle.

無論如何，在我看來，全球唯一剩下的成功的低成本航空公司是瑞安航空。你猜怎麼著？這是因為他們是唯一堅持其創始原則並且不飛往倫敦、希思羅或戴高樂機場等高成本機場的廉價航空公司。

Four, and all of that is gradually leading airlines to focus on their comparative advantages. It's often two steps forward and one step back, but the trend continues to be towards each airline flying more and more in places where they have relative strength and shrinking in places where they're at a disadvantage. That, of course, is just basic economics, but it's happening. And because it's just basic economics, that trend is going to continue for years to come.

第四，所有這些都在逐漸引導航空公司關注其比較優勢。通常情況下，航空公司會前進兩步，後退一步，但目前的趨勢仍然是，各家航空公司將越來越多地飛往自己具有相對優勢的地區，而減少自己處於劣勢的地區的航班。當然，這只是基本的經濟學原理，但它正在發生。因為這只是基本的經濟學原理，所以這種趨勢在未來幾年將會持續下去。

So to conclude, I'm proud of the team for overcoming the macro and Newark environment in the first half of the year. We had high confidence that the supply changes were coming, but it's good to actually see them. But I'm also encouraged that the demand environment appears to have inflected back towards the trend line we're expecting to start the year.

總而言之，我為團隊克服上半年宏觀和紐瓦克環境的困難感到自豪。我們非常有信心供應方面的變化即將到來，但實際上看到這些變化還是令人高興的。但我也感到鼓舞的是，需求環境似乎已經回落到我們預期年初的趨勢線。

Typically, I would now leave it to Brett to speak next, but he's not able to join us for the call today. He recently had a pre-planned surgery and is on the road to recovery. We're looking forward to having him back soon.

通常情況下，我會讓布雷特接下來發言，但他今天無法參加我們的電話會議。他最近接受了預先計劃好的手術，目前正在康復中。我們期待他早日回來。

So for today's call, I'll hand it off to Chief Operations Officer, Toby Enqvist.

因此，今天的電話會議我將交給營運長 Toby Enqvist。

Thank you, Scott. I'm really proud of our United team and our operational performance in the second quarter. Before I detail our top-tier system-wide results, I'm going to start with the [hop back] at the most attention this quarter, Newark.

謝謝你，斯科特。我對我們的聯合團隊和第二季的營運表現感到非常自豪。在我詳細介紹我們整個系統的頂級業績之前，我將先從本季最受關注的紐瓦克開始。

Located in the largest media market in America and the most crowded airspace in the world, Newark will always get outside attention even this past week when all the New York City airports were hit with severe weather, it disrupted a lot of travel plans and got a lot of airtime. Thunder storms are going to happen, especially in the summer. That's why cementing the progress we have made over the last couple of months to improve the resilience of our Newark operation is a huge priority for United.

紐瓦克位於美國最大的媒體市場和世界上最擁擠的空域，即使上週紐約市所有機場都遭遇惡劣天氣，打亂了許多旅行計劃並佔用了大量播出時間，紐瓦克也始終受到外界關注。雷暴天氣即將發生，尤其是在夏天。這就是為什麼鞏固過去幾個月來取得的進展以提高紐瓦克業務的彈性是美聯航的首要任務。

At the start of the second quarter, our Newark team was thrust into the middle of a perfect storm, a string of FAA technology outages, combined with Newark's ongoing runway construction and the FAA staffing shortages drove cancellations and delays, impacting customers' perception of the reliability of the airport.

第二季初，我們的紐瓦克團隊陷入了一場完美風暴之中，一系列的美國聯邦航空管理局 (FAA) 技術中斷，加上紐瓦克正在進行的跑道建設和美國聯邦航空管理局的人員短缺導致航班取消和延誤，影響了客戶對機場可靠性的看法。

Those perceptions and the extensive negative news coverage of the situation at Newark Airport drove meaningful book-away and load factors dropped 15 points following the event. As a result of the book away and capacity reduction, Q2 margins were impacted by approximately 1.2 points. We expect that the impact will linger into Q3 with an approximately 1-point margin impact.

這些看法以及對紐瓦克機場事件的大量負面新聞報道導致預訂量大幅下降，事件發生後載客率下降了 15 個百分點。由於預訂量減少和運力減少，第二季的利潤率受到約 1.2 個百分點的影響。我們預計這種影響將持續到第三季度，對利潤率的影響約為 1 個百分點。

But here's the key takeaway, and it's really good news. We've already seen a dramatic turnaround in Newark. Bookings have largely recovered, and we don't expect any impact in Q4 because Newark isn't just back to normal, it's running better than ever. In fact, United's operation at Newark had the fewest cancellations and most on-time flights of any airport in the New York area in the month of June.

但這裡有一個關鍵點，這確實是個好消息。我們已經看到紐瓦克發生了巨大的轉變。預訂量已基本恢復，我們預計第四季度不會受到任何影響，因為紐瓦克不僅恢復了正常，而且運行得比以往任何時候都好。事實上，六月，美聯航紐瓦克機場的航班取消次數是紐約地區所有機場中最少的，準點率也是最高的。

The airport now is actually operating within its capability, and our team is back to running an operation that delivers a great experience for our customers. These are the changes that made it possible. Thanks to the great work of the Port Authority, Newark's runway construction was completed two weeks early and the runway re-opened on June 2.

目前，機場已完全按照其能力運行，我們的團隊也已恢復運營，為客戶提供良好的體驗。這些變化使得這一切成為可能。感謝港務局的出色工作，紐瓦克機場跑道建設提前兩週完工，並於6月2日重新開放。

The FAA was able to upgrade their fiber optic technology. And perhaps the most importantly, the FAA implemented badly needed hourly flight caps to prevent the airport schedule from exceeding its capacity. Newark has had a schedule and capacity problem that we have been urging the FAA to fix for more than a decade. And thanks to the leadership shown by Secretary Duffy, we now have the line of sight to a longer-term solution to this problem.

美國聯邦航空局能夠升級其光纖技術。或許最重要的是，美國聯邦航空局實施了急需的每小時航班上限，以防止機場航班時刻表超出其容量。紐瓦克機場存在航班時刻表和容量問題，十多年來我們一直在敦促美國聯邦航空管理局解決這個問題。感謝達菲部長所展現的領導力，我們現在看到了解決這個問題的長期方案。

If slightly we look back and find that this long-term capacity fix is the most important and positive outcome for the [southern] public. What happened in Newark in April and May is also evidence of the broader need to improve our nation's ATC infrastructure. United was deeply engaged with Secretary Duffy and the FAA, who successfully advocated for the $12.5 billion in funding that Congress just passed earlier this month to begin the long overdue process of rebuilding our outdated ATC infrastructure.

如果我們稍微回顧一下就會發現，這種長期的容量修復對於南方公眾來說是最重要和最積極的結果。四月和五月在紐瓦克發生的事件也證明了我們國家需要更廣泛地改善空中交通管制基礎設施。美聯航與達菲部長和美國聯邦航空管理局進行了深入的接觸，後者成功促成了國會本月早些時候通過的 125 億美元撥款，以啟動早就應該進行的重建過時的空中交通管制基礎設施的進程。

Much of this funding will go towards upgrading copper wire to modern fiber optic cables to help reduce the hundreds of outages that FAA experience across the ATC system. We look forward to working with Secretary Duffy and leaders in Congress for the additional funding needed to fully update our ATC technology.

其中大部分資金將用於將銅線升級為現代光纖電纜，以幫助減少 FAA 在整個 ATC 系統中遇到的數百次中斷。我們期待與達菲部長和國會領導人合作，爭取全面更新我們的空中交通管制技術所需的額外資金。

I actually ran Newark Airport for United from 2011 to 2014. So I know the airport really well, and I'm more optimistic about United's future there than I've ever been, because Newark has never been in better position to operate reliable and profitable than there is right now. From the FAA to Secretary Duffy, to Governor Murphy to the New Jersey Congressional Delegation to the Port Authority of New York, New Jersey, lots of people deserve credit for this turnaround.

事實上，我從 2011 年到 2014 年一直負責聯合航空紐瓦克機場的營運。所以我對這個機場非常了解，而且我對美聯航在那裡的未來比以往任何時候都更加樂觀，因為紐瓦克機場從來沒有像現在這樣處於可靠運營和盈利的最佳狀態。從美國聯邦航空管理局到達菲部長，從墨菲州長到新澤西州國會代表團和紐約新澤西港務局，許多人都為這一轉變做出了貢獻。

But our team on the ground in Newark deserve it the most. They are professional, resilient, focused, and committed. Despite challenges that were out of their control, they showed up day after day and delivered for our customers and one another. All across the system, United operation continues to fire on all cylinders and continue to be a big reason why our airline is thriving.

但我們在紐瓦克的實地團隊最值得擁有這個榮譽。他們專業、堅韌、專注、忠誠。儘管面臨著超出他們控制範圍的挑戰，他們仍然日復一日地出現，為我們的客戶和彼此提供服務。在整個系統中，聯合航空的營運繼續全速運轉，並繼續成為我們航空公司蓬勃發展的重要原因。

We ranked number two in an on-time departure among the top eight US carriers, even though we operate in the toughest markets in the world, all while managing record-high customer volumes, including the busiest travel day in United history with over 611,000 passengers on June 22.

儘管我們在全球最艱難的市場中運營，但我們在準點率方面仍位居美國八大航空公司中的第二位，同時還創下了客流量的新高，包括 6 月 22 日美聯航歷史上最繁忙的旅行日，當天有超過 611,000 名乘客出行。

We also had one of the lowest second-quarter seat cancelation rates in our history. This operational strength played a key role in supporting our strong NPS performance in the quarter, our highest Q2 NPS since the pandemic. Thank you to the entire United team for delivering a fantastic second-quarter result.

我們第二季的座位取消率也是史上最低的座位之一。這種營運優勢對我們本季強勁的 NPS 表現發揮了關鍵作用，這也是自疫情爆發以來我們第二季 NPS 最高的一次。感謝整個聯合團隊取得的出色第二季業績。

I will now hand it over to Andrew to talk about the revenue environment.

現在我將把話題交給安德魯來談談收入環境。

Thanks, Toby. United's top-line revenue increased 1.7% to a record $15.2 billion in the quarter. Consolidated TRASM for the quarter was down 4% on a 5.9% increase in capacity. Adjusted for events at Newark, we believe United TRASM would have been down 2% to 3% and our EPS would have been at the high end of our guide. This outcome for Q2 comes during the highest level of geopolitical and macroeconomic uncertainty we have seen in years.

謝謝，托比。本季度，美聯航的營業收入成長 1.7%，達到創紀錄的 152 億美元。本季綜合 TRASM 下降 4%，但運力成長 5.9%。根據紐瓦克事件進行調整後，我們相信聯合航空的 TRASM 將下降 2% 至 3%，而我們的 EPS 將處於指導值的高端。第二季的這一結果出現在我們多年來所見過的最高水準的地緣政治和宏觀經濟不確定性之中。

International flying outperformed domestic yet again with a RASM decrease of 1% compared to a domestic decrease of 7%. United Pacific operations continued their impressive results to a positive RASM growth in Q2 across most destinations. We look forward to new service to Thailand, Vietnam, and the Philippines starting later this year, subject to government approval.

國際航班的表現再次優於國內航班，RASM 下降了 1%，而國內航班下降了 7%。聯合太平洋航空的營運持續取得驕人的業績，第二季在大多數目的地的 RASM 均實現了正成長。我們期待今年稍後開通飛往泰國、越南和菲律賓的新航線，但需獲得政府批准。

The Atlantic, which had an incredible run of 23% RASM growth since the pandemic, did have negative RASMs year over year. Unlike in off-peak quarters, pushing Atlantic RASM higher in peak period has proved more difficult in part due to the spread of leisure demand to usually lower demand periods. Margins in these historically off-peak periods are up, while margins in peak months, which are still high, are down.

自疫情爆發以來，大西洋地區的 RASM 成長率高達 23%，但年比來看，其 RASM 卻呈現負成長。與非尖峰時段不同，在高峰時段提高大西洋 RASM 已被證明更加困難，部分原因是休閒需求蔓延到通常需求較低的時段。這些歷史上非高峰期的利潤率有所上升，而高峰月份的利潤率雖然仍然很高，但卻有所下降。

Premium cabin revenues were again strong in Q2, increasing 5.6% year over year, while the economy cabin was negative. Overall premium RASMs were 6 points better than non-premium. It's nice to see once again that the premium capacity remains resilient. Given the consistency of these results, we plan to further lean into premium product and capacity in the coming years. Cargo performance is strong with revenue up 4% year over year on record volumes and loyalty revenues had another strong quarter with revenues up 9%.

第二季高級艙收入再次強勁成長，年增 5.6%，而經濟艙收入則出現負成長。整體而言，優質 RASM 比非優質 RASM 高出 6 個百分點。很高興再次看到優質運能仍保持彈性。鑑於這些結果的一致性，我們計劃在未來幾年進一步傾向於高端產品和產能。貨運表現強勁，營收年增 4%，創歷史新高，忠誠度營收也再創佳績，成長 9%。

Now turning to our outlook for Q3 and the rest of the year. Newark's negative impact on bookings in Q2 for future travel are expected to have a very temporary impact on revenue results in Q3 of about 1 point. The good news is Newark's share of New York city sales has now largely recovered in July, along with the reliability of our flight operations. Passengers can now book with confidence.

現在來談談我們對第三季和今年剩餘時間的展望。紐瓦克事件對第二季未來旅行預訂的負面影響預計將對第三季的收入造成約 1 個百分點的暫時影響。好消息是，紐瓦克在紐約市的銷售額份額在 7 月已基本恢復，同時我們的航班營運的可靠性也提高了。乘客現在可以放心預訂。

Newark sales returned to normal pre-United are critical to our revenue performance. However, in addition to normal New York sales volumes, we are seeing a step down in published industry capacity later this summer that we believe will be a positive for United.

紐瓦克的銷售額恢復到聯合航空之前的正常水平對我們的收入表現至關重要。然而，除了正常的紐約銷售量之外，我們還看到今年夏天晚些時候公佈的行業運力有所下降，我們相信這對聯合航空來說是一個利好。

Published industry domestic capacity for August and September indicates slightly less capacity year over year, when just a few months ago, it was published at up almost 4%. Low-margin airlines, without strong brand loyalty and diversified revenue streams, are cut-in unprofitable flying. We believe this is always an inevitable outcome, an outcome that we expect will be uniquely beneficial to brand-loyal airlines with much higher margins and well-diversified networks and products.

該行業公佈的 8 月和 9 月國內運力數據表明，運力同比略有下降，而就在幾個月前，該數據還上漲了近 4%。利潤率低的航空公司，由於缺乏強大的品牌忠誠度和多元化的收入來源，只能進行無利可圖的飛行。我們相信這是一個不可避免的結果，我們預計這一結果將對忠誠於品牌、利潤率更高、網路和產品更加多樣化的航空公司帶來獨特的好處。

A great reset we see from the low-margin airline today makes sense for them, but in no way do we expect them to match what we offer consumers today, plus what we have planned in the future.

我們今天看到的低利潤航空公司的重大調整對他們來說是有意義的，但我們絕不指望他們能達到我們今天為消費者提供的服務以及我們未來的計劃。

We have a large lead and we intend to maintain that with further innovation. Combining the normalized Newark sales, along with less overall industry capacity, sets up an improved revenue backdrop. However, the most important development for revenues is at the overall demand environment.

我們擁有巨大的領先優勢，我們打算透過進一步創新來保持這一領先優勢。紐瓦克銷售額的正常化，加上產業整體運力的下降，創造了更好的收入背景。然而，對於收入而言，最重要的發展是整體需求環境。

Recent United and industry sales data confirms a demand environment that has inflected positively in recent weeks due to this less macroeconomic uncertainty. Just as quickly as demand stepped down in early February due to this uncertainty, it appears that demand is now stepping up. This step-up is a 6-point positive swing in sales to-date in July versus the second quarter, but even more importantly, a double-digit swing in higher yield in business revenues in the same period.

近期聯合航空和航空業的銷售數據證實，由於宏觀經濟不確定性減少，近幾週需求環境已出現正面變化。正如 2 月初由於這種不確定性而導致的需求下降一樣，現在需求似乎正在上升。與第二季相比，7 月的銷售額上升了 6 個百分點，更重要的是，同期業務收入收益率也出現了兩位數的上升。

Domestic tickets sales are now also showing positive year-over-year yields, reflecting this improved demand environment for the first time since February. For us, we believe these four factors of Newark performance, industry capacity, demand improvements and positive domestic yields makes the setup for post-summer 2025, very similar to the period in 2024.

目前，國內機票銷售殖利率也出現了年比正成長，這是自二月以來首次反映出需求環境有所改善。對我們來說，我們相信紐瓦克的表現、產業容量、需求改善和國內收益的正值這四個因素，使得 2025 年夏季後的狀況與 2024 年時期非常相似。

As you will recall, the second half 2024 setup created a very good outcome for Q4 and a nice run-up in our stock price. This significant positive momentum in sales in recent weeks is nice to see, but it is really important to draw distinction between bookings and flown revenue as we look at Q3. Recent booking strength does not change the fact that 50% of the third-quarter sales were sold as of July 1, prior to the change in [sentiment], along with the unique impact of temporary lower demand for Newark on United sales.

您可能還記得，2024 年下半年的設定為第四季度創造了非常好的結果，並推動了我們股價的大幅上漲。很高興看到最近幾週銷售出現顯著的正面勢頭，但在我們展望第三季時，區分預訂量和飛行收入確實非常重要。近期的預訂強勁勢頭並未改變這樣一個事實：截至 7 月 1 日（市場情緒發生變化之前），第三季度 50% 的銷售額已售出，同時紐瓦克需求暫時下降對聯合航空銷售額的獨特影響也未改變。

The setup for global flying also looks much better as we head into Q4. For United, Q3 relies the most on the segments of the business that have been the weakest in 2025. Offshore sales and main cabin sales. As we head into Q4, we historically rely more on onshore business and premium demand, which makes Q4 of a better outlook in the current environment. Our early look at Q4 global yields and bookings support our view but we still have a long way to go and Q3 RASMs will likely to be negative year over year.

隨著我們進入第四季度，全球飛行的設置也看起來好多了。對美聯航而言，第三季最依賴 2025 年最薄弱的業務部門。離岸銷售和主艙銷售。進入第四季度，我們歷來更加依賴在岸業務和保費需求，這使得第四季度在當前環境下的前景更好。我們對第四季度全球收益率和預訂量的初步觀察支持了我們的觀點，但我們還有很長的路要走，第三季的 RASM 可能會比去年同期出現負成長。

In summary, booking strength now translates into stronger flowing revenues and RASMs later in Q3 and Q4. This recent sales momentum, along with about 1 point of negative impact on Newark on Q3 RASM, gives us confidence that the implied RASM step-up from Q3 to Q4 we have in our internal outlook is quite achievable and maybe even conservative. We are hopeful that cooled Middle East tensions will allow a full schedule to Tel Aviv soon. We plan to resume Tel Aviv service initially just from Newark on July 21 and hope to include other gateways later this year.

總而言之，預訂實力現在轉化為第三季和第四季後期更強勁的流動收入和 RASM。最近的銷售勢頭，加上紐瓦克對第三季 RASM 約 1 個百分點的負面影響，讓我們有信心，我們內部預測的從第三季到第四季的隱含 RASM 提升是相當可實現的，甚至可能是保守的。我們希望，中東緊張局勢的緩和將很快讓我們有完整的特拉維夫行程。我們計劃於 7 月 21 日首先從紐瓦克恢復特拉維夫航班，並希望在今年稍後覆蓋其他門戶。

Building domestic capacity at our hubs continues to be one of our largest focuses for 2025 and 2026 as we recreate winning schedules and ultimately larger PRASM, RASM premiums versus others in the process. We believe this connectivity effort, combined with larger gates [nearby the jets] with more premium seats, will narrow significantly the margin gap between our domestic and international flying. United has grown its relative TRASM by 7 points more than the industry since 2019 and faster than any other carriers since the pandemic as evidence that our plan is working and not all capacity is created equally.

在我們的樞紐建設國內運力仍然是我們 2025 年和 2026 年最大的關注點之一，因為我們將重新制定成功的航班時刻表，並最終實現比其他航空公司更高的 PRASM 和 RASM 保費。我們相信，這種連通性努力，加上（飛機附近）更大的登機口和更多的高級座位，將大大縮小我們國內和國際航班之間的利潤差距。自 2019 年以來，美聯航的相對 TRASM 增幅比行業平均高出 7 個百分點，且自疫情爆發以來增幅比任何其他航空公司都快，這證明我們的計劃正在發揮作用，而且並非所有運力都是平等的。

Brand loyalty for United is increasing with documented share gains in Q1 in each of our hubs. United's revenues are more diverse than ever, and in the process, our product choice range gives customers more choices for the experience they desire. United plans to introduce the Polaris Studio suite later this year, another step in increasing our premium capacity and revenue diversity.

隨著第一季我們各樞紐的市佔率均有成長，美聯航的品牌忠誠度正不斷提高。美聯航的收入比以往任何時候都更加多樣化，在此過程中，我們的產品選擇範圍為客戶提供了更多他們想要的體驗的選擇。美聯航計劃在今年稍後推出 Polaris Studio 套房，這是我們提高優質航空運能和收入多樣性的另一個舉措。

We also look forward to building our Blue Sky collaboration with JetBlue later this year to help create a more competitive alternative for United customers and MileagePlus members in New York City, along with Boston. We also look forward to returning to JFK in 2027 after a long absence with a competitive schedule and a built-in frequent flyer base.

我們也期待在今年稍後與捷藍航空建立藍天航空合作關係，以幫助為紐約市和波士頓的聯合航空客戶和 MileagePlus 會員創造更具競爭力的替代方案。我們也期待在 2027 年重返甘迺迪機場，屆時我們將擁有具有競爭力的航班時刻表和固定的常旅客基礎。

In summary, we remain bullish about the future given less macroeconomic uncertainty we are seeing, plus scheduled capacity changes by the low margin airlines later this summer. The inflection in bookings and yields we've recently seen gives us great confidence.

總而言之，鑑於宏觀經濟不確定性減少，加上今年夏天晚些時候低利潤航空公司的預定運力變化，我們仍然對未來持樂觀態度。我們最近看到的預訂量和收益的變化給了我們很大的信心。

With that, I want to say thanks to the entire United team for running a great airline in Q2, and I will hand it off to Mike to discuss our financial results.

最後，我想感謝整個聯合航空團隊在第二季度出色地運營了這家航空公司，然後我將把會議交給麥克來討論我們的財務表現。

Thanks, Andrew. I'm very proud of the United team this quarter. We faced several geopolitical challenges that impacted the fuel prices and customer demand while also managing through the Newark difficulties that Toby discussed earlier.

謝謝，安德魯。我為本季的曼聯感到非常自豪。我們面臨著一些影響燃料價格和客戶需求的地緣政治挑戰，同時也要應對托比之前討論過的紐瓦克困難。

And despite all of this, we delivered earnings per share of $3.87, well within our guidance range and ahead of Wall Street expectations of $3.81. I'm very pleased with these results, and I want to highlight that if we excluded the financial fact of the Newark disruption, we would have been above the high end of our range. This is another proof point that our United Next plan is working. In fact, I'd go as far to say that our plan has worked.

儘管如此，我們仍然實現了每股收益3.87美元，遠超過我們的預期範圍，並高於華爾街3.81美元的預期。我對這些業績非常滿意，我想強調的是，如果排除紐瓦克航班中斷帶來的財務影響，我們的業績將高於預期範圍的上限。這是我們的 United Next 計劃正在發揮作用的另一個證明。事實上，我甚至可以說我們的計劃已經奏效了。

The industry has transformed into a healthier industry where customers are brand-loyal and increasingly choose to fly not just based on the schedule but also based on their preferences for reliability, for clubs, for technology and for loyalty programs. The industry now has two brand-loyal, structurally profitable and revenue-diverse airlines, which has driven much of the rest of the industry to cut money-losing capacity to return to profitability. This is irreversible and will lead to stable double-digit margins for United Airlines.

航空業變得更加健康，客戶對品牌更加忠誠，他們選擇搭乘飛機不再僅基於航班時刻表，還基於對可靠性、俱樂部、技術和忠誠度計劃的偏好。目前，航空業擁有兩家品牌忠誠度高、獲利結構良好且收入多元化的航空公司，促使業內大部分其他航空公司削減虧損運力，以恢復獲利。這是不可逆轉的，並將為聯合航空帶來穩定的兩位數利潤率。

Turning to costs. We continue to run better than planned, and I'm pleased with the 2.2% CASM-ex growth we delivered in the second quarter. You've heard me say that the best way to manage cost is to run a reliable airline, and this team continues to deliver. I expect similar cost performance for the remainder of the year.

談到成本。我們的營運狀況持續優於計劃，我對第二季實現的 2.2% CASM-ex 成長感到滿意。你們聽我說過，管理成本的最佳方式是經營一家可靠的航空公司，而這個團隊繼續做到這一點。我預計今年剩餘時間的成本效益將類似。

As we look to the third quarter, we expect continued stabilization in the geopolitical environment. This is already driving stronger bookings, and as Andrew discussed, we're optimistic those trends will continue. Taking that into account, along with the continued strong cost performance, we expect third-quarter EPS to be between $2.25 and $2.75.

展望第三季度，我們預期地緣政治環境將持續穩定。這已經推動了更強勁的預訂量，正如安德魯所討論的，我們樂觀地認為這些趨勢將會持續下去。考慮到這一點，加上持續強勁的成本表現，我們預計第三季每股收益將在 2.25 美元至 2.75 美元之間。

Consistent with what happened last year, we also expect the industry to continue to reduce money-losing capacity in domestic markets beyond September. This adds to our confidence in the fourth quarter and may even lead to upside as we continue to believe in our path to double-digit pretax margins longer term. For now, we expect full-year EPS to be between $9 and $11.

與去年的情況一致，我們也預期9月份以後航空業將持續減少國內市場的虧損運力。這增強了我們對第四季度的信心，甚至可能帶來上行空間，因為我們繼續相信我們能夠長期達到兩位數的稅前利潤率。目前，我們預計全年每股收益將介於 9 美元至 11 美元之間。

Turning to the balance sheet. We ended the second quarter with $18.6 billion in liquidity, including our $3 billion undrawn revolver. We generated over $1.1 billion of free cash flow, and importantly, on July 7, we paid down the remaining $1.5 billion balance of our MileagePlus bonds two years early. This was our most expensive remaining fixed rate debt.

轉向資產負債表。截至第二季末，我們的流動資金為 186 億美元，其中包括 30 億美元未提取的循環信貸額度。我們產生了超過 11 億美元的自由現金流，重要的是，7 月 7 日，我們提前兩年償還了 MileagePlus 債券剩餘的 15 億美元餘額。這是我們剩餘的最昂貴的固定利率債務。

This prepayment, along with the prepayment of the MileagePlus term loan a year ago, fully un-encumbers the MileagePlus business, a crown jewel asset of United. With this prepayment, we have unencumbered assets that exceed $40 billion. Strengthening the balance sheet remains a top priority, and we target net leverage below 2 times and continue to work towards investment grade. With this prepayment, we've now reduced our gross debt by almost $11 billion since the peak debt level of COVID. Our average cost of debt is now 4.7%.

此次預付款與一年前預付的 MileagePlus 定期貸款一起，徹底解除了 MileagePlus 業務（美聯航的一項珍貴資產）的負擔。有了這筆預付款，我們的無抵押資產已超過 400 億美元。強化資產負債表仍然是我們的首要任務，我們的目標是將淨槓桿比率控制在 2 倍以下，並繼續努力達到投資等級。透過這筆預付款，我們自新冠疫情期間債務高峰以來已減少了近 110 億美元的總債務。我們的平均債務成本目前為 4.7%。

On the buyback, we repurchased $235 million worth of shares at an average price of $66 during the quarter, leaving $829 million in authorization. We will continue to take a balanced approach to our capital allocation strategy. Our shares continue to trade below our view of intrinsic value. Therefore, we are balancing the level of buyback while also pursuing our leverage target. We ended the second quarter at 2 times net leverage. Free cash flow generation also remains a priority, and we now expect to generate over $2 billion in free cash flow for the year.

在回購方面，我們在本季以平均 66 美元的價格回購了價值 2.35 億美元的股票，剩餘的授權金額為 8.29 億美元。我們將繼續採取平衡的資本配置策略。我們的股票交易價格繼續低於我們認為的內在價值。因此，我們在平衡回購水準的同時，也在追求我們的槓桿目標。我們第二季結束時的淨槓桿率為2倍。自由現金流的產生仍然是我們的首要任務，我們預計今年的自由現金流將超過 20 億美元。

In conclusion, I remain excited about the future of United Airlines, and we will continue to work to deliver on our financial commitments. Despite the headwinds we faced in the first half of the year, we delivered significant growth in EPS, and we feel very good about the core fundamentals of our airline in the second half of 2025 and beyond.

總之，我仍然對聯合航空的未來感到興奮，我們將繼續努力履行我們的財務承諾。儘管上半年我們面臨阻力，但我們的每股盈餘仍實現了顯著成長，並且我們對航空公司在 2025 年下半年及以後的核心基本面感到非常樂觀。

Now back to Kristina to start the Q&A.

現在回到克里斯蒂娜開始問答環節。

Thanks, Mike. I echo that excitement. (Event Instructions)

謝謝，麥克。我也有同樣的興奮之情。（活動須知）

(Operator Instructions) Tom Wadewitz, UBS.

（操作員指示）瑞銀 (UBS) 的 Tom Wadewitz。

It's Tom Wadewitz from UBS. So I wanted to ask you a bit on the cost side performance. Mike, I think your comments were pretty favorable. Obviously, the 2.2% CASM-ex in 2Q is very good. How do we think about that going forward? And then I think there was one particular expense item that seemed a bit lower than kind of normal.

我是瑞銀的湯姆‧韋德維茲 (Tom Wadewitz)。所以我想問您一些有關成本方面表現的問題。麥克，我認為你的評論非常有利。顯然，第二季 2.2% 的 CASM-ex 非常好。我們如何看待這項未來？然後我認為有一項特定的支出項目似乎比正常情況低一點。

The distribution expense was down quite a bit year over year in sequential, which seems different than normal. I don't know if there's something that's kind of one-off helping you there. Or just more on the cost side and how you keep the strong performance going on that?

分銷費用同比連續下降了不少，這似乎與正常情況不同。我不知道是否有某種東西可以一次性地幫助你。或者只是更專注於成本方面以及如何保持強勁的表現？

Tom, I appreciate the question. I'm really proud of the cost performance, better than I certainly expected back in January. I want to be clear. We expect similar cost performance in Q2 and both Q3 and Q4. For '26 and beyond, you have to wait as we continue to work on budgets. Distribution expense does continue to come go down as more customers are choosing to go through the direct channel. So I do expect that long-term trend.

湯姆，我很感謝你的提問。我對性價比感到非常自豪，這比我一月份預期的要好。我想說清楚。我們預計第二季、第三季和第四季的成本表現將類似。對於 26 年及以後，您必須等待，因為我們將繼續制定預算。隨著越來越多的客戶選擇透過直銷管道，分銷費用確實持續下降。所以我確實預期這個長期趨勢。

We did get some benefit this quarter that has some puts and takes that brought that down even more in the second quarter. But longer term, the distribution costs are headed lower, and we're really proud of that result as well.

本季我們確實獲得了一些收益，但也有一些損失導致第二季的收益進一步下降。但從長遠來看，分銷成本將會降低，我們對這項結果感到非常自豪。

Yes. That's great. And then a follow-up, just on demand. You had some really helpful commentary. Are we back to January levels on demand? Or we're kind of on the way back there? Or how do we kind of reset to say, okay, in July with Newark recovery and a little bit of stabilization, kind of just where are we at?

是的。那太棒了。然後根據需要進行跟進。你的評論確實很有幫助。我們的需求是否恢復到了一月份的水準？或者說我們正在回去的路上？或者我們如何重新設定，好吧，隨著七月份紐瓦克經濟的復甦和一點穩定，我們現在處於什麼位置？

It's Andrew. Look, what we said is there's been a 6-point inflection versus Q2. It's an even stronger inflection for business traffic during that time period. There's a lot of machinations with the numbers prior to that. But I just think from where we are standing today, we're really pleased by that change in direction bookend combined with less capacity starting in August and September, and then some more favorable Q4 environment.

我是安德魯。你看，我們說的是，與第二季相比，出現了 6 點的轉折點。這對於該時間段內的商業流量來說是一個更強烈的變化。在此之前，這些數字已經經過了許多的陰謀。但我認為，從我們今天的立場來看，我們對方向的改變以及 8 月和 9 月開始的產能下降以及隨後的第四季更有利的環境感到非常高興。

So we do think it's a nice step up and hopefully conservative based on where the bookings have recently been, but it's a good change in direction.

因此，我們確實認為這是一個不錯的進步，根據最近的預訂情況，希望是保守的，但這是一個好的方向上的改變。

David Vernon, Bernstein.

大衛‧佛農，伯恩斯坦。

So Mike, the last time we spoke, you put out kind of two guidance ranges, one that would be intact if things were stable. Now we're coming down to a kind of a little new lower midpoint. Can you kind of walk us through where we're settling in or what's changed from stability to where we are now?

麥克，上次我們談話時，你提出了兩種指導範圍，一種是如果情況穩定的話，這種指導範圍就會保持不變。現在我們正處於一個新的較低中點。您能否向我們介紹一下我們的安頓情況，或者從穩定狀態到現在發生了哪些變化？

And then talk about what's baked into that second half guidance, particularly around the acceleration of demand. Are we baking that into the guidance range? Or is there an ability to maybe do better than what we're laying out here in the second half?

然後談談下半年指引中包含的內容，特別是有關需求加速的內容。我們是否將其納入指導範圍？或者我們有能力在下半場做得比現在更好？

Thanks, Dave. Really appreciate the question. Look, we've had a philosophy here at United to guide conservatively, to build in one act of God, because this industry, things happen. Fuel prices spike. There's an ebb and flow in tariffs. There's lots of things that change. And so it is important to us we deliver on our commitments. And so as you look at that $9 to $11 for the full year and what's implied by the second half, we are consistent with our philosophy of building in that act of God.

謝謝，戴夫。非常感謝您的提問。你看，我們聯合航空一直秉持著一種保守的理念，將一切建立在天災之上，因為在這個行業，各種事情都會發生。燃料價格飆升。關稅有漲有落。有很多事情都會改變。因此，履行承諾對我們來說非常重要。因此，當您看到全年 9 到 11 美元以及下半年所暗示的情況時，我們始終堅持在天災中建造的理念。

If you go back to the end of the first quarter in the call, we talked about the two ranges. The world was highly uncertain at that time. And I was very clear at that time that the higher range, the $11.50 to $13.50, that there was no contingency left. That piece of the guide was not consistent with any more acts of God that would impact us. But I'm very excited. The bookings over the last three weeks have been very strong. And if everything continues on that trajectory, I think the $9 to $11 will prove conservative.

如果您回顧第一季末的電話會議，我們討論了這兩個範圍。當時的世界充滿不確定性。我當時非常清楚，在較高的範圍內，即 11.50 美元到 13.50 美元，已經沒有任何應急措施了。該指南的這一部分與任何可能影響我們的天災不一致。但我很興奮。過去三週的預訂量非常強勁。如果一切都按照這個軌跡發展下去，我認為 9 到 11 美元的價格將被證明是保守的。

That's helpful. And then, Andrew, you mentioned sort of looking at the implied RASM step-up you're getting from 3Q to 4Q, maybe also being a little bit on the conservative side. Can you frame kind of what the levers are in there that you're thinking might actually do better than what we're seeing right now? Is it in main cabin? Is it an acceleration of business? Help us think through like what are the drivers of that step-up from 3Q to 4Q? And where are the things you're more or less certain on?

這很有幫助。然後，安德魯，您提到了從第三季到第四季隱含的 RASM 提升，可能也有點保守。您能否概括一下其中的槓桿作用，您認為這些槓桿作用實際上可能比我們現在看到的更好？是在主艙嗎？這是業務的加速嗎？幫助我們思考一下，從第三季到第四季的成長驅動因素是什麼？您比較確定或不太確定的事情有哪些？

Well, the most certain thing is what the airlines have published for schedules in August and September, which now just a few weeks ago, we're showing plus [4] and now showed negative for domestic. And so, I think the demand environment I just talked about, the ability for business traffic to rebound, which kind of changes the yield profile. I said we were booking negative yields for the majority of the year, and those have now flipped positive for domestic.

嗯，最確定的是各航空公司公佈的 8 月份和 9 月份的航班時刻表，就在幾週前，數據顯示國內航班數量為正 [4]，而現在為負。所以，我認為我剛才談到的需求環境，也就是業務流量反彈的能力，會改變收益率狀況。我說過，我們今年大部分時間的收益率都是負的，但現在國內收益率已經轉為正值。

So when you take lower demand, positive yields and this pretty strong inflection in business demand for United, that's the reason I feel really great about the setup for Q4. As we said earlier, it's a very deja vu in some of these circumstances to what we saw last year which was a pretty significant step up. So we anticipate the same based on what we've seen in published schedules, based on demand, based on yields and based on business traffic.

因此，當你考慮到較低的需求、正收益以及美聯航商業需求的強勁增長時，這就是我對第四季度的安排感到非常滿意的原因。正如我們之前所說，在某些情況下，這與我們去年看到的情況非常相似，這是一個相當顯著的進步。因此，根據已發布的航班時刻表、需求、收益和業務流量，我們做出了相同的預測。

Jamie Baker, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的傑米貝克。

This one is probably for Scott. Your primary US competitor has a significant non-union labor construct. It's got one of the most efficient hubs in the country. It's got a sizable MRO. It's got perhaps the most evolved relationship with its loyalty partner.

這一個可能是給斯科特的。您在美國的主要競爭對手具有顯著的非工會勞工結構。它擁有該國最高效的樞紐之一。它具有相當大的 MRO。它與其忠誠合作夥伴之間的關係可能是最密切的。

And to your credit, Scott, I mean, you've spoken publicly about holding Delta in high regard. So my question is, what are the catalysts that potentially allow United to overtake Delta margins in coming years? Is it structural? Is it simply brand preference or perhaps you reject the premise that you can have the industry's highest margins, but I doubt that that's going to be your answer.

值得稱讚的是，史考特，你曾公開表示對達美航空的高度尊重。所以我的問題是，未來幾年，哪些因素可能會讓美聯航的利潤率超越達美航空？它是結構性的嗎？這只是品牌偏好，還是您拒絕接受您可以擁有行業最高利潤率的前提，但我懷疑這是否會是您的答案。

You know me well, Jamie. I appreciate the question. But what I'd say is, I do respect, Delta. In fact, on a conceptual level, much of what we have been trying to do for the last 15 years. The airlines have been -- is win brand-loyal customers. And I think they were the first airline and maybe the first in the US to really prove that winning brand-loyal airlines was the winning formula. Winning brand loyal customers was the winning formula for airlines.

你很了解我，傑米。我很感謝你提出這個問題。但我想說的是，我確實尊重達美航空。事實上，從概念層面來看，過去 15 年來我們一直在嘗試做很多事情。航空公司一直在——贏得品牌忠誠的客戶。我認為他們是第一家航空公司，甚至可能是美國第一家真正證明贏得品牌忠誠度才是製勝法寶的航空公司。贏得品牌忠誠客戶是航空公司的致勝法寶。

But my focus is entirely on returning United Airlines to solid double-digit margins and higher absolute margin as opposed to what we do relative to Delta. I think we are the only two airlines that have a -- we are the only two brand-loyal revenue-diverse airlines. I think that is structural. It is permanent. We can talk to more detail about why. It is not copyable by anyone else.

但我的重點完全在於讓聯合航空恢復穩定的兩位數利潤率和更高的絕對利潤率，而不是像我們針對達美航空所做的那樣。我認為我們是僅有的兩家擁有——我們是僅有的兩家品牌忠誠度高、收入多元化的航空公司。我認為這是結構性的。它是永久的。我們可以更詳細地討論原因。任何其他人都無法複製它。

And we already generate the bulk of the industry profit. I suspect when you hear earnings results next week, despite the challenges that Delta had last year with CrowdStrike, we have this year, there's going to be those ups and downs, that our margin gap, between the two of us, our margin gap to the industry is going to continue to expand. And I think we're going to wind up in the same ballpark on margins.

我們已經創造了該行業的大部分利潤。我想，當你下週聽到收益結果時，儘管達美航空去年在 CrowdStrike 方面遇到了挑戰，但今年我們也會遇到一些起伏，我們之間的利潤差距，我們與行業的利潤差距將繼續擴大。我認為我們的利潤率最終會達到大致相同。

You mentioned some of their advantages. We have some advantages as well. Our hubs are better. Atlanta is a great hub but collectively, our hubs, I think, are better. They are bigger cities. We have better international gateways in San Fran, Newark and Dallas in particular. So I think those are going to largely balance out. We're going to wind up with similar margins.

您提到了它們的一些優點。我們也有一些優勢。我們的樞紐更好。亞特蘭大是一個很好的樞紐，但我認為，從整體來看，我們的樞紐更好。它們是更大的城市。我們在舊金山、紐瓦克和達拉斯擁有更好的國際門戶。所以我認為這些將在很大程度上達到平衡。我們最終將獲得相似的利潤。

But I'd much rather us have 13% margins and Delta have 13.5%, then us have 10% and Delta have 9.5%. And everything we're doing is 100% focused on winning brand loyal customers and creating a great airline, and customers are going to choose to fly because that is going to maximize our absolute margins.

但我更希望我們的利潤率為 13%，達美航空的利潤率為 13.5%，然後我們的利潤率為 10%，達美航空的利潤率為 9.5%。我們所做的一切都是為了贏得品牌忠誠客戶和打造一家優秀的航空公司，客戶會選擇搭乘飛機，因為這將最大限度地提高我們的絕對利潤率。

And this quarter is the other -- like this first half of the year, it's remarkable to me. Everything that's happened this year that we've grown earnings and margins for the first half of the year. And our guidance is for earnings to be down a little bit this year, given everything that has happened.

這個季度與今年上半年一樣，對我來說意義非凡。今年發生的一切使我們上半年的收益和利潤率都有所增長。考慮到目前發生的所有情況，我們預計今年的收益將略有下降。

But we have a shot at actually growing earnings this year, which would be a truly incredible result. And proof point that winning brand-loyal customers was the right strategy. We started it a long time ago. You can't flip it overnight. The two of us have the right strategy, and we are going to generate the bulk of the industry profits.

但今年我們的獲利確實有可能增加，這將是一個真正令人難以置信的結果。事實證明，贏得品牌忠誠客戶是正確的策略。我們很久以前就開始了。你不可能一夜之間就改變它。我們兩個人的策略是正確的，我們將創造產業的大部分利潤。

Excellent. And then quickly for Mike, on the loyalty pay down, [Street] and I certainly get that it was here, [high has] caused prepayable debt, makes total sense from a financial perspective, but we keep circling back and asking ourselves if we should be thinking about that recent transaction through more of a strategic lens. Can you afford any perspective on that?

出色的。然後，對麥克來說，關於忠誠度支付的減少，[Street] 和我當然明白，[high has] 導致了預付債務，從財務角度來看，這完全合理，但我們不斷回過頭來問自己，是否應該從戰略角度來考慮最近的交易。您對此有何看法？

Thanks for the question, Jamie. MileagePlus is a crown jewel asset for us. And we're absolutely thinking about the value of that business, the multiple of business with the resiliency of earnings that our Loyalty business has, is significantly higher than the historical average for the airline industry, and that's not lost on me.

謝謝你的提問，傑米。MileagePlus 對我們來說是一筆寶貴的資產。我們絕對在考慮這項業務的價值，我們的忠誠度業務的獲利彈性倍數明顯高於航空業的歷史平均水平，我並沒有忘記這一點。

My focus at this time is to provide segment disclosure. So there's more transparency on the earnings, the resiliency, the earnings growth of that business. And we're working very hard to get that segment disclosure to the market at some point next year. That's my focus. If the value is not recognized, we certainly will take more drastic steps, but the focus right now is only segment reporting. The un-encumbering of the business does give us optionality.

我目前的重點是提供細分披露。因此，該業務的獲利、彈性和獲利成長更加透明。我們正在努力爭取在明年某個時候向市場披露這一細分市場的資訊。這就是我的重點。如果價值不被認可，我們肯定會採取更激烈的措施，但目前的重點只是分部報告。業務的解除確實給了我們選擇權。

Conor Cunningham, Melius Research.

康納·坎寧安（Conor Cunningham），Melius Research。

Maybe to piggyback on Jamie a little bit here. Scott, last third quarter -- or last year's third quarter, you talked a lot about the industry being on a path of the 2012 to 2014 cycle with margins doubling. Clearly, the environment kind of started off more challenging this year. Some investors kind of bannered that narrative, but I was just curious on how you view your thesis now? And what may have changed since the start of the year? Or really what you've learned and how that's been applied to that thesis in general?

也許這裡可以稍微利用一下 Jamie。史考特，上個第三季度——或者去年第三季度，您多次談到該行業正處於 2012 年至 2014 年周期的道路上，利潤率將翻倍。顯然，今年的環境開始變得更具挑戰性。一些投資者對此持有不同看法，但我只是好奇您現在如何看待您的論點？自今年年初以來，可能發生了什麼變化？或者您真正學到了什麼以及如何將其應用於該論文？

I think the thesis is intact. What's different is what changed with demand this year. The thesis is really a supply thesis. That's what you can control, and that's what happened in 2012 and 2014. But 2012 to 2014 was in a backdrop to a stronger demand environment.

我認為該論點是完整的。不同的是今年的需求改變了。該論點其實是供給論點。這是你可以控制的，這也是 2012 年和 2014 年發生的事。但2012年至2014年的背景是需求環境更強勁。

And this year, demand has changed. Demand inflected downward certainly for the first six months of the year, given everything that's happened, all the uncertainty in the world, at least that's my theory of what happened. And it started to inflect back positive.

今年，需求改變了。考慮到發生的一切以及世界上的所有不確定性，今年前六個月的需求肯定呈下降趨勢，至少這是我對所發生事情的理論。並且它開始轉回常態。

Now it's not all the way back to what it was. The business managed to recover. It's not all the way back, but it is certainly inflected in a positive direction. And sort of my read of the economy and talking to other CEOs and just watching the data is that the economy hit a turning point, did hit an inflection point at the end of June, and I expect that to continue.

現在它還沒有完全恢復到原來的樣子。業務成功恢復。雖然還沒有完全恢復，但肯定是朝著正面的方向發展。根據我對經濟的解讀、與其他執行長的交談以及對數據的觀察，我發現經濟在 6 月底達到了轉折點，我預計這種情況將持續下去。

I think the supply portion of that 2012 is firmly intact. I think demand is on the road, demand has ups and downs, that always happens. It is on the road to recovery. I think one thing that's becoming even more clear though is also the strength, the dispersion of results in the industry and the strength of the two brand-loyal airlines really winning and everyone else losing.

我認為 2012 年的供應部分完好無損。我認為需求在路上，需求有起有落，這是總是會發生的。它正在走向復甦。我認為，有一件事正變得越來越清晰，那就是實力、行業業績的分散性，以及兩家忠誠於品牌的航空公司的實力，它們確實取得了勝利，而其他航空公司都在虧損。

And if I dig deeper into it and I look at every airline that's not named United or Delta, I can find at every single one of them, a double-digit percentage of their [WACC] net worth loses money. And the only way for them to get margins that are anywhere close to their WACC is to stop flying places that lose money. And that is going to ultimately happen.

如果我深入研究，看看除聯合航空或達美航空之外的每一家航空公司，我會發現，每一家航空公司的 [WACC] 淨資產都有兩位數的百分比虧損。而他們獲得接近加權平均資本成本利潤率的唯一方法就是停止飛往虧損的地方。這最終將會發生。

I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow. I don't think it's going to happen in the near term, but I can look at how much money is being lost route by route and know that economic gravity is ultimately going to end. So I think actually the results are going to -- in total, the industry is going to go in the same place for supply, but the results for the two winning airlines are going to be outsized in that environment.

我不認為明天就會發生這種事。我認為這不會在短期內發生，但我可以透過觀察每條路線上損失的資金數額，知道經濟引力最終將會結束。因此我認為實際上的結果將是——總體而言，整個行業的供應情況將趨於相同，但在這種環境下，兩家獲勝航空公司的業績將會非常可觀。

Awesome. Appreciate that. And then Maybe, Andrew, last quarter, you talked a little bit about taking the reins on industry still traffic. Obviously, just given the changes explained (technical difficulty) opened up basic economy a little bit sooner. But you're being pretty clear about what you're seeing in July. So I'm just trying to understand how you're managing basic economy versus other products out there especially from a couple of months ago.

驚人的。非常感謝。然後也許，安德魯，上個季度，您談到了控制行業靜態流量的問題。顯然，僅僅考慮到所解釋的變化（技術難度）就可以更早地開放基礎經濟。但你對七月看到的情況非常清楚。所以我只是想了解你們是如何管理基本經濟與其他產品的，尤其是幾個月前的產品。

Sure. I think the demand environment is what we said it was over the last 90 days. It's inflected much more positive today. But that did create a setup for Q3, which means more open RM systems. I don't think that's going to be unique to United particularly in the domestic environment, and that has created some more lower yields, and it's created, I think, ultimately, when we report, more penetration of basic economy passengers in our numbers for the next 90 days this quarter. So expect a higher percentage of [basic] is my take as we go through the next 90 days.

當然。我認為需求環境就是我們所說的過去 90 天的情況。今天，它變得更加積極了。但這確實為 Q3 創建了一個設置，這意味著更開放的 RM 系統。我不認為這會是美聯航獨有的現象，特別是在國內環境下，這導致了更低的收益率，而且我認為，當我們報告本季未來 90 天的數據時，這最終會導致基本經濟艙乘客的滲透率更高。因此，我認為在接下來的 90 天裡，[基本] 的比例預計會更高。

Andrew Didora, Bank of America.

美國銀行的安德魯‧迪多拉 (Andrew Didora)。

My first question probably for Andrew. I never think of summer as being the time for corporate demand to meaningfully accelerate. So any color you can provide on what you're seeing there? Any specific geographies or industry verticals driving this? And are you seeing the level of corporate bookings return to the level seen at end of 2024, early 2025 right now?

我的第一個問題可能是問安德魯的。我從來沒有想過夏季是企業需求顯著加速的時期。那麼您可以提供您所看到的任何顏色嗎？是否有特定的地域或垂直產業來推動這一趨勢？您是否看到現在公司預訂量恢復到 2024 年底或 2025 年初的水平？

Well, first of all, we're comparing year over year, so we're comparing summer over summer, and we're seeing that strength in the numbers, which is nice to see. So I think it is consistent with a summer environment, which is, again, nice to see.

嗯，首先，我們正在進行逐年比較，所以我們正在比較夏季與夏季，我們看到了數字上的強勁增長，這很高興看到。所以我認為這與夏季環境一致，這再次令人欣喜。

Second point, which I think is particularly important is the strength we're seeing is across all of our hubs and different verticals. So we're seeing a rebound across the board, which I think reflects the commentary earlier about less macroeconomic uncertainty. So we have obviously a very strong recovery in New York. We're not fully recovered yet from a business point of view, but that's moving along.

第二點，我認為特別重要的是，我們看到的實力遍布我們所有的樞紐和不同的垂直領域。因此，我們看到了全面反彈，我認為這反映了先前關於宏觀經濟不確定性減少的評論。因此，紐約的復甦顯然非常強勁。從商業角度來看，我們尚未完全恢復，但正在不斷進步。

But the fact that's a non-New York business for United over the last few weeks has been almost as strong as New York is one of the reasons I'm particularly excited. I do think this reflects customer choice, corporations choice, and our relationship with travel agencies that we are being chosen more and more often. But the fact is, and the most important part of this question or answer, is the fact that the growth we're seeing in business traffic is across the board. It's not in any singular hub.

但事實上，過去幾週美聯航在紐約以外的業務表現幾乎與紐約一樣強勁，這也是我特別興奮的原因之一。我確實認為這反映了客戶的選擇、公司的選擇以及我們與旅行社的關係，我們越來越頻繁地被選擇。但事實是，這個問題或答案中最重要的部分是，我們看到的業務流量成長是全面的。它不位於任何單一的中心。

That's helpful. And then my second question for either you, Andrew or Scott, if you want to chime in. Just on this whole industry capacity dynamic, why do you think we've been in this position a lot over the last few years, basically sitting here in the peak summer and seeing the need for capacity cuts coming in the off-peak once we hit post August into Labor Day? Why do we not see more of this capacity, call it, discipline more in the first half of the year or in other off-peak areas? Just curious your thoughts on that.

這很有幫助。然後我的第二個問題是想問你，安德魯或史考特，如果你願意的話。就整個產業產能動態而言，您認為為什麼我們在過去幾年中經常處於這種境地，基本上是在夏季高峰期，而到了 8 月之後到勞動節期間，非高峰期就需要削減產能？為什麼我們在上半年或其他非高峰地區沒有看到更多這種容量，或者說紀律性更強的容量呢？只是好奇你對此的想法。

Sure, I'll give it a try. Look, as we've said a lot now, there's really distinct carriers out there with distinct demand situations. And so for the leisure-oriented carriers that are also spill-oriented carriers, which is a lot of them, I think it's really obvious very, very quickly that in the lower demand off-peak periods, it doesn't make a lot of sense to push the aircraft very hard, and a lot of airlines across the industry I think just simply have lower utilization.

當然，我會嘗試一下。你看，正如我們現在已經多次提到的那樣，確實存在著不同的運營商，它們的需求情況也各不相同。因此，對於許多以休閒為導向、同時也是以溢油事故為導向的航空公司來說，我認為很快就會發現，在需求較低的非高峰時段，大力推行飛機運營並沒有多大意義，我認為整個行業的許多航空公司的利用率都較低。

Given that, I think there is a desire to offset that. It's just natural in our business across the board to see -- to push the aircraft harder in Q2 and Q3 when demand normally seasonally turns. And I think that's the output that's occurred. We'll see where it goes next year. But I think it's pretty obvious in off-peak periods. It's hard to push aircraft. It's hard to push aircraft on red eyes. It's hard to push 05:00 AM flights or 10:00 PM flights.

有鑑於此，我認為人們有抵消這種影響的願望。在我們的整個業務中，在第二季和第三季需求通常出現季節性轉變時，我們更努力地推動飛機銷售，這是很自然的事情。我認為這就是已經發生的結果。我們將看看明年會發生什麼。但我認為在非高峰時段這一點非常明顯。推動飛機很困難。在紅眼狀態下推動飛機非常困難。很難推遲凌晨 5 點的航班或晚上 10 點的航班。

And it's pretty obvious that we at United do not do that. I've talked about the golden hour flying, which is 07:00 AM to 08:00 PM. I think our golden hour percentage is the highest of any US carrier over a 12-month period. There are changes from month to month. And I urge you to pull that number, and you'll see that each airline has a different strategy when it comes to this, and we'll see where the industry is a year from now.

很明顯，我們美聯航不會這麼做。我已談到飛行的黃金時段，即早上 7:00 至晚上 8:00。我認為我們的黃金時段百分比是 12 個月內所有美國航空公司中最高的。每個月都有變化。我建議您看一下這個數字，您會發現每家航空公司在這方面都有不同的策略，我們將看到一年後該行業的發展。

Scott Group, Wolfe Research.

斯科特集團、沃爾夫研究公司。

So I'm just wondering, is there any way to quantify maybe how much of the 6-point improvement you're talking about is tied to Newark and how much is just broadly? And then the implied improvement in fourth-quarter RASM, is that more of a domestic or international? Just any color there?

所以我只是想知道，有沒有辦法量化您所說的 6 個百分點的改進有多少與紐瓦克有關，有多少只是大致相關？那麼，第四季 RASM 的隱含改善是更多的是國內改善還是國際改善？那裡有任意顏色嗎？

I think a domestic improvement as we move forward given the capacity environment. 6 is broad-based. So Newark is better, obviously, in that number and then the rest of the network is below 6.

我認為，考慮到產能環境，隨著我們前進，國內情況會有所改善。 6 是廣泛的。因此，從這個數字來看，紐瓦克顯然表現更好，而其餘網路則低於 6。

And then maybe, Scott, I didn't hear anything today about JetBlue and Blue Sky. Maybe just how you view that sort of driving your longer-term views around where margins and everything can get?

然後也許，史考特，我今天沒有聽到任何關於捷藍航空和藍天航空的消息。也許您只是如何看待這種對利潤和一切可以達到的長期目標的影響？

Well, Andrew had it in his script. But I think it's important for us. We've become the premier flag carrier of the United States and being able to be in JFK, it's hard to really complete that unless we're there. A lot of customers, you know them, probably some of your neighbors that fly out of -- fly both sides of the Hudson and it's important for us to be on both sides.

嗯，安德魯的劇本裡面有這個。但我認為這對我們很重要。我們已經成為美國首屈一指的旗艦航空公司，並且能夠進入甘迺迪機場，除非我們親自到那裡，否則很難真正實現這一目標。很多顧客，你知道的，可能是你的一些鄰居，他們從哈德遜河的兩岸飛來飛去，對我們來說，在兩岸開展業務很重要。

And this is a great way to do it, our partnership with JetBlue. They're customer-focused airline. They have the same DNA. They may not be as big as us, but they have the same kind of DNA for how to take care of customers and caring about customers, and this is a great way to have a built-in frequent flyer base on both sides of the Hudson and get our metal back into JFK, which is important to our brand.

我們與捷藍航空的合作是一個很好的方式。他們是一家以客戶為中心的航空公司。他們有相同的DNA。他們的規模可能不如我們大，但他們在如何照顧客戶和關心客戶方面擁有相同的 DNA，這是一種在哈德遜河兩岸建立常旅客基地並將我們的金屬重新帶回肯尼迪機場的好方法，這對我們的品牌很重要。

Tom Fitzgerald, TD Cowen.

湯姆·菲茨杰拉德，TD Cowen。

Would you mind providing us an update on Kinective Media a little over a year since the launch? And Richard's comments publicly have seemed pretty positive. So I'd love to hear how you're thinking about that and maybe being a contributor for 2026?

您介意向我們提供一下 Kinective Media 自推出一年多以來的最新情況嗎？理查德的公開評論似乎相當正面。所以我很想聽聽您對此有何看法，也許您想成為 2026 年的貢獻者？

Sure. I think things are moving along. We are spending a lot of time building our technology stack and building our client roster as we market our services. We seek to double our revenues in 2025 versus 2024 in the media revenue channel. We'll see how we come out. It's a big challenge, but we're moving along. And one of the big enablers for all of this is the seatback screens that we have installed years ago and the introduction of Starlink.

當然。我認為事情正在順利進展。在推銷我們的服務時，我們花費了大量的時間來建立我們的技術堆疊和建立我們的客戶名冊。我們的目標是到 2025 年，媒體收入管道的收入將比 2024 年翻倍。我們將看看結果如何。這是一個巨大的挑戰，但我們正在繼續前進。而這一切的一大推動因素是我們多年前安裝的椅背螢幕和 Starlink 的推出。

And obviously, the seat-back screens, they were making great progress on. We're well over half of the aircraft that have the new technology on board. Starlink, we just started. But when you combine Starlink and the seat-back screens, that's when the real magic happens. So that's going to unlock a lot more value at Kinective Media in the 2026, late '26, 2027 time period as we bring all the ingredients, including the internal technology stack online.

顯然，他們在座椅靠背螢幕方面取得了很大進展。超過一半的飛機都配備了這項新技術。Starlink，我們才剛開始。但當你將 Starlink 與座椅靠背螢幕結合在一起時，真正的奇蹟就會發生。因此，隨著我們將所有要素（包括內部技術堆疊）上線，這將在 2026 年、2026 年末和 2027 年期間為 Kinective Media 釋放更多價值。

So we still have a great outlook. We're looking forward to rapid growth in the business as we bring all those factors together.

因此我們的前景仍然十分光明。隨著我們將所有這些因素結合在一起，我們期待業務快速成長。

That's really helpful context. And then just on the fleet and the supply chain, would love to hear just how -- what you're seeing on your end with deliveries and then just how you're thinking about the timing of the gauge benefit over the next couple of years.

這確實是很有幫助的背景資訊。然後就船隊和供應鏈而言，我很想聽聽您在交付方面看到的情況，以及您如何考慮未來幾年衡量效益的時機。

Tom, thanks the question. This is Mike. Boeing's doing a great job on narrow bodies. So we're seeing MAX delivery actually slightly ahead of the schedule we were planning on. So really pleased with that, and all evidence suggests that they're going to maintain that trajectory.

湯姆，謝謝你的提問。這是麥克。波音公司在窄體飛機方面做得很好。因此，我們看到 MAX 的交付實際上比我們計劃的時間表略微提前了一點。對此我真的很高興，而且所有證據都表明他們會保持這樣的軌跡。

On the widebody front, 787s, they haven't got to plan yet. We're hearing good things, but there's also some engine constraint widebody longer term. So the jury is still out on wide-body, but Boeing is doing a great job on the narrow side, and minimal delays, but some still delays with 321s. Overall, the supply chain is healing itself, but I think probably engine remains constrained for some time to come.

在寬體飛機方面，例如 787，他們尚未制定計劃。我們聽到了好消息，但長期來看寬體飛機也存在一些引擎限制。因此，對於寬體飛機，目前尚無定論，但波音公司在窄體飛機方面做得很好，延誤的情況很少，但 321 飛機仍然會延誤。總體而言，供應鏈正在自我修復，但我認為引擎在未來一段時間內可能仍會受到限制。

I'm sorry, the second part of your question?

抱歉，您問題的第二部分是什麼？

Just how we should think about the cadence for the gauge benefit that you guys are going to see over the next kind of '26 and '27?

我們該如何看待你們在接下來的 26 年和 27 年中將要看到的衡量效益的節奏？

As we move into 2026, current plan has gauge up 2%. And I think gauge growth will accelerate from there in '27. So that's where we are.

隨著我們進入 2026 年，當前計劃已上漲 2%。我認為從 27 年開始規模成長將會加速。這就是我們現在的狀況。

Catherine O'Brien, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的凱瑟琳·奧布萊恩。

Maybe the first one for Mike. You know the costs have continued to go by the plan. Can you just dig in a little on what went better in 2Q? And then what are the cost tailwinds you have in the back half to offset the flight attendant ratification headwind that you end up with a similar performance in back half versus 2Q that I don't believe had the flight attendant contract or maybe that two half comment doesn't include the impact of new flight attendant contract? Any help there would be helpful.

這可能是麥克的第一個。您知道成本一直在按照計劃進行。您能否稍微深入分析一下第二季哪些方面做得更好？那麼，您在下半年有哪些成本順風來抵消空乘人員批准逆風，最終您在下半年與第二季度取得類似的表現，我不認為第二季度有空乘人員合同，或者也許這兩半評論不包括新空乘人員合同的影響？任何幫助都會有幫助。

Thanks, Katie. I did say in my script, and I'll reiterate it, that running a strong and reliable operation versus what we were thinking. And we had aggressive goals, but Toby and team have done even better. That's number one. Number two, we've made some big changes in our procurement department, and we're seeing some real savings out of the supply chain.

謝謝，凱蒂。我在腳本中確實說過，我會重申這一點，運行強大而可靠的操作與我們的想法不同。我們設定了積極的目標，但托比和他的團隊做得更好。這是第一點。第二，我們對採購部門做出了一些重大改變，我們看到了供應鏈中一些真正的節省。

We're also doing a better job of managing inventory of parts. And so that's been very helpful as well. I think that that all continues and we will also benefit from gauge as it starts to accelerate. So we feel very good about that. And when I gave the comments around CASM in Q3 and Q4, that is inclusive of the AFA deal.

我們也更好地管理零件庫存。這也非常有幫助。我認為這一切都將繼續下去，並且隨著它開始加速，我們也將從中受益。因此我們對此感到非常高興。當我在第三季和第四季發表有關 CASM 的評論時，其中包括 AFA 交易。

That's great. Maybe one for Andrew. You noted the [CR] has given you more confidence in premium products, and you'll look to increase premium more going forward. I'm assuming that means increasing the percentage of premium seats per departure, but correct me if I'm wrong. I guess just any thoughts on where that percentage could go over the next 5 to 10 years?

那太棒了。也許給安德魯一個。您指出 [CR] 讓您對高端產品更有信心，並且您會期待在未來進一步提高高端產品。我假設這意味著增加每次出發的優質座位的百分比，但如果我錯了，請糾正我。我想問一下，大家對於未來 5 到 10 年內這個比例會上升到什麼程度有什麼看法嗎？

And within that, is there any segment in the premium cabins between Economy Plus, International Premium Plus or Polaris, that would be -- due to the bulk of that upsizing? Or it's really equal across the various premium cabins?

其中，經濟艙、國際豪華艙或北極星艙之間的高級艙位是否有任何細分市場，這是由於大部分艙位擴大造成的？或是各個高級艙位的票價真的都一樣嗎？

It's a really good question. [I don't] give every detail. We'll save that for a more detailed type structured meeting. But we announced our United Elevate interior onboard, the 787-9, in Brooklyn just a few weeks ago, and that particular aircraft will now have 99 premium seats on it, which is Polaris Plus, Premium Plus. Not every aircraft United flies by the way that we deliver in the future will have that same 99 seats.

這真是個好問題。我不會透露所有細節。我們將把它留到更詳細的結構化會議中討論。但就在幾週前，我們在布魯克林宣布了 787-9 上的聯合航空 Elevate 內飾，這架飛機上現在將有 99 個高級座位，即 Polaris Plus、Premium Plus。我們未來交付的美聯航飛機並非每架都擁有相同的 99 個座位。

But that's a good reflection of an aircraft that we already said will be flying to Singapore. We think that's the right aircraft for Singapore, and many of the markets that United where we have this really high level of premium demand.

但這很好地體現了我們已經說過的將飛往新加坡的飛機。我們認為這架飛機適合新加坡以及美聯航旗下許多市場，在這些市場中，高端航空的需求量都非常高。

Probably the biggest expansion though, that I think is an opportunity, is we undersized the Premium Plus cabin, the cabin between Main Cabin and Polaris on our widebody jets. And that's the cabin, I think, that's generating very good returns, and the one that we'll probably lean more into going forward. But we'll leave all the details for a later date. But Premium Plus is, I think, a really very exciting opportunity as a mid-range product between the front of the aircraft and the back.

不過，我認為最大的擴展可能是一次機遇，那就是我們縮小了 Premium Plus 客艙的尺寸，即我們寬體噴射機上主客艙和北極星客艙之間的客艙。我認為，機艙產生了非常好的回報，我們未來可能會更傾向於機艙。但我們會將所有細節留到以後再透露。但我認為，作為飛機前部和後部之間的中檔產品，Premium Plus 確實是一個非常令人興奮的機會。

And last but least, the gauge benefit that Mike talked about, as we bring on these MAX 9s and A321s NEOs, we definitely bring on many more premium seats than the aircraft [to] ultimately replace the A319 or the A320. And so our premium [mix] shifts as we up-gauge the fleet and retire older ones and bring in these new ones that are just performing really well for us.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，正如麥克所提到的，隨著我們推出這些 MAX 9 和 A321 NEO，我們肯定會帶來比最終取代 A319 或 A320 的飛機更多的高級座位。因此，隨著我們升級機隊、淘汰老舊飛機並引進表現優異的新飛機，我們的高階機型（組合）也隨之改變。

Duane Pfennigwerth, Evercore ISI.

杜安‧芬尼格沃斯 (Duane Pfennigwerth)，Evercore ISI。

As you think about your aspirational longer-term margin targets, maybe pretax margins in the low teens from 7 or 8 today, I wonder which geography you expect to be the biggest contributor to that expansion?

當您考慮您期望的長期利潤率目標時，也許稅前利潤率將從今天的 7% 或 8% 降至百分之十幾，我想知道您預計哪個地區將對這一擴張做出最大貢獻？

Well, look, I think I've said this a number of times, and it's true. Our international margins are doing really well. And I think they're going to do better in the future with, for example, the Elevate 787 aircraft is going to push our margins even higher. But our international margins are pretty strong.

嗯，看，我想我已經說過很多次了，這是真的。我們的國際利潤率表現非常好。我認為他們將來會做得更好，例如，Elevate 787 飛機將會進一步提高我們的利潤率。但我們的國際利潤率相當高。

The domestic margins, which are positive to be clear. And not only the positive, they're positive in each and every one of our hubs, by the way, in the last 12 months. But the opportunity there is to lower the gap between the domestic margins and our international ones, because I don't expect our domestic margins to really ever completely close that gap.

國內利潤率明顯為正值。順便說一下，不僅是積極的方面，在過去的 12 個月裡，我們每個中心都取得了積極的進展。但這其中的機會在於降低國內利潤率和國際利潤率之間的差距，因為我不認為我們的國內利潤率可以完全消除這一差距。

But I do think there's a lot of upside as we build connectivity. Our hubs are in big cities and they're undersized. We have the wrong gauge still. We simply do not have nearly as many 321s as we hope to have at this point in time and of course, Boeing is yet to deliver our MAX 10, you talked about quite frequently.

但我確實認為，建立連結性會帶來很多好處。我們的樞紐位於大城市，規模較小。我們的測量結果仍然錯誤。目前，我們擁有的 321 飛機數量遠遠沒有達到我們的預期，當然，波音公司尚未交付我們的 MAX 10，正如您經常提到的那樣。

And so we're well behind on the premium seat and the connectivity and the gauge that we intended to employ in our domestic system. And then the other thing, as Scott said over and over again, there is a factor that there's a lot of uneconomic capacity offered by other airlines.

因此，我們在高級座位、連結性和我們打算在國內系統中採用的標準方面遠遠落後。然後另一件事，正如斯科特反覆提到的，有一個因素是其他航空公司提供了大量不經濟的運力。

We've already seen that start to leave the system, and I expect we'll see more of that in the future, which will definitely help. But we have a core plan with premium seats gauge, connectivity. And we've had that same plan, by the way, for a long time period now. We continue to execute against it. And when we get to the bigger aircraft, I think you're going to see the margin gap close.

我們已經看到這種情況開始離開系統，我預計未來會看到更多這樣的情況，這肯定會有所幫助。但我們有一個核心計劃，其中包括優質座位和連接性。順便說一句，我們很久以前就制定過同樣的計劃。我們將繼續執行這項政策。當我們擁有更大的飛機時，我認為你會看到利潤差距縮小。

And maybe one, just on pilot hiring. Just given the pickup in deliveries, is it fair to say you were overstaffed on pilots and now that you've seen a pickup in deliveries, is that more in balance? Or is that unfair? Maybe there wasn't a mismatch. But just wondering how, as these deliveries pick back up, is there a better alignment between your staffing levels and the ability to actually deploy it?

也許還有一個，只是關於飛行員招募。鑑於交付量剛剛回升，是否可以說你們的飛行員人手過剩？現在交付量又回升了，這種情況是否更加平衡？或者說這不公平？也許並不存在不匹配的情況。但我只是想知道，隨著這些交付的回升，您的人員配備水平和實際部署能力之間是否可以更好地協調？

You’re thinking a little bit when it was coming out of COVID. We've been pretty balanced. We have a really good relationship with Boeing. There are not really any surprises. Like what Mike was saying is that we've built in like a couple of shelfs each year that we may or may not move for a fact that we're getting. So it's so small. I mean we're hiring 3,000 pilots a year. So we've been balanced for quite some time now. So I think the answer to your question is no. We're not overstaffed and we're not under staffed. We're just pretty much perfect when it comes to the pilot.

當 COVID 疫情剛出現時，您就會稍微思考一下。我們的狀況一直相當平衡。我們與波音公司的關係非常好。確實沒有什麼驚喜。就像麥克所說的那樣，我們每年都會建造幾個架子，我們可能會也可能不會移動它們，因為事實上我們正在得到它們。所以它這麼小。我的意思是我們每年要招募 3,000 名飛行員。因此，我們現在已經保持平衡很長一段時間了。所以我認為你的問題的答案是否定的。我們不存在人手過多的情況，也不存在人手不足的情況。就試播而言，我們的表現幾乎完美。

Duane, I think what you're seeing partially in CASM ex, when I talk about running a great operation, is that we are at the right staffing levels.

杜安，我認為，當我談到開展一項偉大的業務時，您在 CASM 案例中看到的部分情況是，我們的人員配備水平合適。

Michael Linenberg, Deutsche Bank.

麥可‧林伯格，德意志銀行。

This is just a question for Scott about Newark and the fact that your caps -- I guess, it's 68 at the airport, runs through the end of October. And I think what we've seen is caps at Newark have clearly helped Newark airspace and I guess, by extension, it's sort of helped the national airspace. What are the considerations that are out there right now that are, I guess, being debated with respect to returning Newark to a Level 3 airport?

這只是向史考特提出的一個問題，關於紐瓦克和你的上限——我猜，機場是 68 號，一直持續到 10 月底。我認為，我們看到紐瓦克的管制措施顯然對紐瓦克空域有幫助，我想，從廣義上講，它也對國家空域有幫助。我想，目前關於將紐瓦克機場恢復為三級機場的討論中有哪些考慮因素？

So I am incredibly appreciative, happy with the Secretary Duffy, Mr. Bedford, DOT, the FAA for finally putting Newark on a level playing field with LaGuardia and JFK. I'm up -- literally been begging them to do that from the time I've been here at United. Let me just -- it's simple math.

因此，我非常感激並高興達菲部長、貝德福德先生、交通部和美國聯邦航空局終於讓紐瓦克機場與拉瓜迪亞機場和甘迺迪機場處於一個公平的競爭環境中。我已經——確切地說，自從我來到曼聯以來，就一直在懇求他們這樣做。讓我來算一下——這只是簡單的數學。

When you schedule more flights than the airport can handle in perfect conditions, it's not going to be good. And regardless of what it gets called, I think we're going to have Newark effectively capacity control. I think they've realized -- they understand math. The current team understands math and we're going to have capacity control.

當你安排的航班數量超過機場在理想條件下能夠處理的數量時，情況就不妙了。不管它叫什麼，我認為我們將有效地控制紐瓦克的運力。我認為他們已經意識到——他們懂數學。目前的團隊懂數學，我們將進行容量控制。

I think it will go up from where it is today. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's going to go up, but it's going to end in a place that is manageable, where Newark can continue to be a competitive airport. It's been the best of the three New York airports in the last month and that it will be every bit as competitive. And I think that has always been the key to realizing the full potential of Newark to -- it already is a crown jewel for us but making it a great airport for customers.

我認為它會比現在的水平上升。實際上，我非常肯定它會上升，但最終會達到一個可控的水平，紐瓦克可以繼續成為一個有競爭力的機場。它是上個月紐約三座機場中表現最好的，而且它的競爭力也將同樣強大。我認為這一直是充分發揮紐瓦克機場潛力的關鍵——它對我們來說已經是皇冠上的明珠，但對於乘客來說，它仍然是一個很棒的機場。

And as tough as this has been on us in the short term, it is going to be better for years to come because we have finally solved the obvious issue, which is match airport capacity -- airport flights to the airports capacity, and put newer kind of level playing field with LaGuardia and JFK.

雖然短期內這對我們來說很艱難，但未來幾年情況會好轉，因為我們最終解決了這個顯而易見的問題，即匹配機場容量——機場航班與機場容量相匹配，並為拉瓜迪亞機場和肯尼迪機場創造新的公平競爭環境。

And just a quick one to Mike. In your fleet plan, you're showing the 321 XLR. So how many are you getting this year? And then how soon do they find their way into international service?

我對 Mike 也只有一個簡短的回答。在您的車隊計劃中，您展示了 321 XLR。那麼今年你能得到多少？那麼他們多久能找到進入國際服務的方法呢？

Mike, not in this year.

麥克，今年不行。

It will be the summer of 2026.

那將是2026年的夏天。

Stephen Trent, Citi.

花旗銀行的史蒂芬‧特倫特。

The first, I was just curious. I appreciate the comments about Europe and sort of the summer travel season extending. There's been stuff in the news about anti-tourism incidents in some cities. And are you guys seeing anything at all there in terms of what the flow looks like? Or it's not really an issue at this juncture?

首先，我只是好奇。我很欣賞關於歐洲和夏季旅遊季節延長的評論。新聞報導了一些城市發生的反旅遊事件。你們看到那裡的流動情況了嗎？或者目前這根本不是什麼問題？

I would just add, United disproportionately board US citizens of the United States. And so any changes in demand from outside into the United States, the brunt of that change is more felt by foreign flag. So you should ask them that question.

我只想補充一點，美聯航不成比例地搭載美國公民。因此，當美國外部需求發生任何變化時，外國航空公司將承受更大的衝擊。所以你應該問他們這個問題。

But our demand to Europe. We're having a very strong summer. I'm really happy with the results. It could always be better, but it's another strong summer to Europe, particularly to Southern Europe. So get out there and have a great vacation.

但我們對歐洲有需求。我們正經歷一個非常強勁的夏天。我對結果非常滿意。情況總是可以變得更好，但對於歐洲，特別是南歐來說，這又是一個強勁的夏天。所以出去享受一個愉快的假期吧。

Thank you. We will now switch to the media portion of the call. (Operator Instructions) Brandon Oglenski, Barclays.

謝謝。我們現在將轉到通話的媒體部分。（操作員指示） 巴克萊銀行的布蘭登·奧格倫斯基 (Brandon Oglenski)。

I'm not sure I'm media, but I'll -- (laughter)

我不確定我是媒體，但我會——（笑聲）

Your lucky day, Brandon.

今天你真幸運，布蘭登。

And Mike, I'll just keep it to one, but the commentary and outlook for $2 billion of free cash flow this year, it's pretty impressive just given all the challenges you guys have had. But your CapEx is a little bit low. I mean you talked about the 787 delivery delays. So assuming Boeing gets back on plan for next year or into the out years, you're back into that $7 billion to $9 billion of CapEx range. Should we be thinking FCF at these levels as still a sustainable outlook?

麥克，我只能說一句，但考慮到你們面臨的所有挑戰，對今年 20 億美元自由現金流的評論和展望是相當令人印象深刻的。但你的資本支出有點低。我的意思是您談到了 787 交付延遲的問題。因此，假設波音公司明年或未來幾年恢復計劃，那麼資本支出將回到 70 億美元至 90 億美元的範圍內。我們是否應該認為這些水準的自由現金流仍然具有可持續的前景？

Brandon, thank you very much for the question. Let me point out that, that $6.5 billion this year, there's some downside to that based on continued delays on the wide-body side. So I think we're going to come in inside of that this year. And as we roll to '26 and '27, I fully expect free cash flow to expand. I think operating cash flow is going to expand faster than CapEx. We'll see. There may be some puts and takes in an individual year, but I expect free cash flow to expand and free cash flow conversion to expand, both.

布蘭登，非常感謝您的提問。我要指出的是，由於寬體飛機的持續延誤，今年的 65 億美元存在一些負面影響。所以我認為我們今年將會實現這一目標。隨著我們進入 26 年和 27 年，我完全預計自由現金流將會增加。我認為經營現金流的成長速度將比資本支出更快。我們將拭目以待。在某一年可能會有一些投入和產出，但我預期自由現金流將擴大，自由現金流轉換也會擴大。

Well, maybe that's a bullish way to leave it off for my media counterparts.

好吧，也許這對我的媒體同行來說是一種樂觀的說法。

Mary Schlangenstein, Bloomberg.

瑪麗‧施蘭根斯坦，彭博社。

I wanted to see if you could provide an update on the status of the static interference and Starlink issues on United planes and whether the service and the regional jets are up and running now? If not, what's the issue? And how long will it take to get it resolved?

我想知道您是否可以提供關於美聯航飛機上的靜電幹擾和 Starlink 問題的最新情況，以及該服務和支線飛機現在是否正常運行？如果不是，那麼問題是什麼？解決這個問題需要多長時間？

Mary, it's a good question. This is Toby. I think it's pretty much been resolved and it's also very specific to the one -- the first aircraft we tried on which is the E-175. Obviously, it's a smaller airplane and the biggest problem with interference. I'm obviously not an engineer. I just play one during the day. But anyway, it was too close. The two antennas were too close to each other. So they worked around that. We got 60 airplanes flying around right now.

瑪麗，這是個好問題。這是托比。我認為這個問題基本上已經解決了，而且它非常具體——我們嘗試的第一架飛機是 E-175。顯然，這是一架較小的飛機，幹擾問題最大。我顯然不是工程師。我白天只玩一個。但無論如何，距離太近了。兩根天線距離太近。所以他們就圍繞著這個問題開展工作。我們現在有 60 架飛機在飛行。

We think that the issue is behind us. And again, for the other fleet types, because the airplanes that we're going to put them on are much larger, we won't have that issue.

我們認為這個問題已經過去了。對於其他類型的機隊，由於我們要搭載的飛機要大得多，所以我們不會遇到這個問題。

Okay. And was that 60 airplanes are already up with it?

好的。已經有 60 架飛機達到這個高度了嗎？

Yes, ma'am.

是的，女士。

Leslie Josephs, CNBC.

萊斯利·約瑟夫斯，CNBC。

Just curious if you could give us an update on when you expect to get the MAX 10? And how, once you get that, that's going to increase your premium capacity? And Scott, I know you were talking about Delta and United kind of in their own category and then everybody else. How do you feel about Delta starting LAX to Hong Kong and to O'Hare?

我只是好奇您能否告訴我們您預計何時能獲得 MAX 10？那麼，一旦您獲得它，它將如何增加您的保費能力？史考特，我知道您剛才談到達美航空和聯合航空，它們屬於自己的類別，然後才是其他所有航空公司。您對達美航空開通洛杉磯國際機場飛往香港和歐海爾國際機場有何看法？

Leslie, regarding the MAX 10, we're still hopeful that we can have some deliveries in 2027. But we, right now, have a contingency plan to be able to take MAX 9s and continue to [work] gauging strategy with MAX 9s. So either way, it won't be disruptive to our longer-term strategy. I would like to take the 10s and 2027 is my best guess right now.

萊斯利，關於 MAX 10，我們仍然希望能夠在 2027 年交付一些飛機。但是，我們現在有一個應急計劃，能夠接收 MAX 9 並繼續執行 MAX 9 的測量策略。所以無論如何，它都不會破壞我們的長期策略。我想取 10 年代，而 2027 年是我現在最好的猜測。

And on Delta?

達美航空呢？

We fly 6,000 flights a day. So a couple of new routes aren't that big of an issue for us. But I guess I feel complemented when other airlines feel like they're worried about us getting ahead and how the fly routes are going to lose money for them.

我們每天飛行 6,000 個航班。因此，幾條新航線對我們來說不是什麼大問題。但我想，當其他航空公司擔心我們取得領先以及這些航線會讓他們虧損時，我感到很欣慰。

Dawn Gilbertson, Wall Street Journal.

吉爾伯森（Dawn Gilbertson），《華爾街日報》。

My question is for Andrew. I'm wondering -- you guys talked a lot recently about making Polaris even more premium. Are you weighing, like, your new favorite brand-loyal competitor? Are you also weighing their [Boeing] business class tickets? And if so, can you walk us through that and talk about any timeline? If not, why not?

我的問題是針對安德魯的。我很好奇——你們最近談論了很多關於如何讓 Polaris 變得更加高端的問題。您是否正在權衡您最喜歡的新的品牌忠誠度競爭對手？您是否也在權衡他們的[波音]商務艙機票？如果是的話，您能向我們詳細介紹一下並談談時間表嗎？如果不是，為什麼？

Thanks, Dawn. Look, what I would say is, over time, over the last seven or eight years, we've leaned heavily into segmentation of our revenues, which is a really -- in our [particular] way of saying, providing more and more choices to our customers. So they can pick the experience they would like from premium to basic economy. And we have learned through that time period that our customers really appreciate this.

謝謝，Dawn。我想說的是，隨著時間的推移，在過去的七、八年裡，我們已經非常傾向於對收入進行細分，這實際上是一種——用我們特定的說法，就是為我們的客戶提供越來越多的選擇。因此，他們可以從高級經濟艙到基本經濟艙選擇自己想要的體驗。我們透過這段時間了解到，我們的客戶確實對此表示讚賞。

Not everybody wants the full experience. Some people want other experiences, and so the value to United as an airline and to that of customers has been proven by the segmentation revenues that we've done. And we look forward to continuing to diversify our revenue base and segment in the appropriate way, and I'll leave it at that.

並非每個人都想獲得完整的體驗。有些人想要不同的體驗，因此，我們所做的細分收入已經證明了聯合航空作為一家航空公司以及對客戶的價值。我們期待繼續以適當的方式實現收入基礎和業務部門的多元化，我就不多說了。

I will now turn the call back over to Kristina Edwards for closing remarks.

現在我會把電話轉回給克里斯蒂娜愛德華茲 (Kristina Edwards) 做結束語。

Thanks for joining the call today. Please contact Investor or Media Relations if you have any further questions, and we look forward to talking to you next quarter as the industry transformation continues.

感謝您今天參加電話會議。如果您有任何其他問題，請聯繫投資者或媒體關係部，我們期待在行業轉型持續進行的情況下於下個季度與您交談。

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.

女士們、先生們，今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。