Twilio Inc (TWLO) 2022 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Emma, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Twilio Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Call. (Operator Instructions) Thank you. Bryan Vaniman, SVP, Investor Relations, you may begin your conference.

下午好。我叫艾瑪，今天我將擔任你們的會議接線員。在這個時候，我想歡迎大家參加 Twilio 2022 年第四季度財報電話會議。 （操作員說明）謝謝。投資者關係部高級副總裁布萊恩·瓦尼曼 (Bryan Vaniman)，您可以開始會議了。

Thanks, Emma. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us for Twilio's Fourth Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. Our prepared remarks, earnings press release, investor presentation, SEC filings and a replay of today's call can be found on our IR website at investors.twilio.com.

謝謝，艾瑪。大家下午好，感謝您加入我們的 Twilio 2022 年第四季度收益電話會議。我們準備好的評論、收益新聞稿、投資者介紹、SEC 文件和今天電話會議的重播可以在我們的 IR 網站 investors.twilio.com 上找到。

Joining me today for Q&A are Jeff Lawson, Co-Founder and CEO; Elena Donio, President of Revenue; Khozema Shipchandler, COO; and Aidan Viggiano, SVP of FP&A. As announced in our Q4 earnings press release, Elena, Khozema and Aidan will be transitioning into their new Twilio roles effective March 1.

今天和我一起參加問答的是聯合創始人兼首席執行官 Jeff Lawson； Elena Donio，營收總裁； Khozema Shipchandler，首席運營官；和 FP&A 高級副總裁 Aidan Viggiano。正如我們在第四季度收益新聞稿中宣布的那樣，Elena、Khozema 和 Aidan 將從 3 月 1 日起過渡到他們的新 Twilio 角色。

As a reminder, some of our commentary today will include non-GAAP financial measures and key metrics. Reconciliations between our GAAP and non-GAAP results and further information related to guidance, definitions and key metrics can be found in our earnings press release and the appendix of our prepared remarks, both of which can be found on our IR website. The information provided and discussed today also will include forward-looking statements, including statements about our future outlook and goals. These forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, assumptions and other factors that are described in more detail in our most recent periodic reports filed with the SEC, including our most recent report on Form 10-Q and subsequent reports on Form 10-K or Form 10-Q and any amendments to any of the foregoing, and are available on our website at sec.gov. Forward-looking statements represent our beliefs and assumptions only as of the date such statements are made. Actual results may vary significantly, and we expressly assume no obligation to update any forward-looking statement except as required by law.

提醒一下，我們今天的一些評論將包括非 GAAP 財務指標和關鍵指標。我們的 GAAP 和非 GAAP 結果之間的調節以及與指導、定義和關鍵指標相關的更多信息可以在我們的收益新聞稿和我們準備好的評論的附錄中找到，兩者都可以在我們的 IR 網站上找到。今天提供和討論的信息還將包括前瞻性陳述，包括關於我們未來展望和目標的陳述。這些前瞻性陳述受已知和未知的風險、不確定性、假設和其他因素的影響，這些因素在我們最近向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中有更詳細的描述，包括我們最近的 10-Q 表格報告和隨後的報告10-K 表或 10-Q 表以及對上述任何內容的任何修訂，可在我們的網站 sec.gov 上獲取。前瞻性陳述僅代表我們截至作出此類陳述之日的信念和假設。實際結果可能會有很大差異，除法律要求外，我們明確不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的義務。

With that, I'll hand it over to Jeff for some opening remarks, then we'll open up the call for Q&A.

有了這個，我將把它交給 Jeff 做一些開場白，然後我們將打開問答電話。

Thanks, Bryan, and thank you all for joining us today. As you may have seen, we've made a number of significant changes to our business that we believe set Twilio up to perform in both the short, medium and long term. As I mentioned in my prepared remarks, we are confident that this is the right set of actions and the right path forward for our customers, for our teams and that will enable us to create more value for our shareholders. And I'm sure you have questions, so let's hop right into it.

謝謝，布萊恩，感謝大家今天加入我們。正如您可能已經看到的那樣，我們對我們的業務進行了一些重大改變，我們認為這些改變使 Twilio 能夠在短期、中期和長期內發揮作用。正如我在準備好的發言中提到的那樣，我們相信這是一套正確的行動，對我們的客戶、我們的團隊來說都是正確的前進道路，這將使我們能夠為股東創造更多價值。我相信你有問題，所以讓我們直接進入。

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Meta Marshall with Morgan Stanley.

（操作員說明）您的第一個問題來自 Meta Marshall 與摩根士丹利的合作。

Great. I appreciate it. Maybe a couple of questions for me. Just maybe to start, I know at the Analyst Day, you guys have talked about a lot of changes that you were making to kind of the data and application sales force and just the driver to growth that, that would be in the future. And just as you have gone through the process of splitting the business units, just where do you think you are on some of those initiatives? And I guess, kind of as a second question to that, where do you feel like there are synergies or dissynergies from kind of splitting the segments as far as kind of getting customers to go from Communications customers to kind of those Data & Applications customers?

偉大的。我很感激。也許有幾個問題要問我。也許只是開始，我知道在分析師日，你們已經談到了你們對數據和應用程序銷售人員所做的很多改變，以及未來增長的驅動力。就像您經歷了拆分業務部門的過程一樣，您認為您在其中一些計劃中處於什麼位置？我想，作為第二個問題，你覺得從細分市場到讓客戶從通信客戶轉向那些數據和應用程序客戶，在哪些方面存在協同效應或不協同效應？

Meta, it's Elena Donio here. Thanks for the question. A couple of things that you hit on there, and I'll take them in turn and then pass over to Jeff, who can add a little bit of extra commentary. First question was about the data and applications business and kind of current state of growth and where we're at in terms of that transformation that we've been talking about. Let me hit that one first.

Meta，我是 Elena Donio。謝謝你的問題。你在那裡碰到的一些事情，我會依次處理它們，然後傳遞給 Jeff，他可以添加一些額外的評論。第一個問題是關於數據和應用程序業務以及當前的增長狀態以及我們在我們一直在談論的轉型方面所處的位置。讓我先打那個。

We've -- I've spoken across the last couple of quarters about investment there and about growth there. We also addressed a little bit of sort of the trajectory as it relates to the beginning of last year and a couple of missteps that we made along the way. We actually feel a lot better about that business and trajectory now. And we believe that this movement in separating our sales forces into these business units more discretely is actually going to further amplify and accelerate that growth.

我們已經 - 我在過去幾個季度談到了那裡的投資和那裡的增長。我們還討論了一些與去年年初相關的軌跡以及我們在此過程中犯下的一些失誤。實際上，我們現在對這項業務和發展軌跡感覺好多了。我們相信，這種將我們的銷售人員更分散地分散到這些業務部門的運動實際上將進一步擴大和加速這種增長。

So obviously, revenue growth lags bookings. We feel good about where our Q4 landed across our data and applications business, and we're also confident in that reacceleration. I talked a little bit over the last couple of quarters about the hiring that needed to be done there, the onboarding, the enablement of those new reps. We feel really good about having built out those teams with the right set of skills and the right capabilities, doing some internal transfers as well as hiring from the outside with the right set of bespoke skills. So I'm really confident in how that's turning.

很明顯，收入增長滯後於預訂量。我們對第四季度在我們的數據和應用程序業務中的表現感到滿意，我們也對這種重新加速充滿信心。在過去的幾個季度裡，我談了一些關於需要在那裡完成的招聘、入職以及這些新代表的支持。我們對建立具有正確技能和正確能力的團隊、進行一些內部調動以及從外部招聘具有正確定制技能的團隊感到非常高興。所以我真的很相信這是如何轉變的。

We've also talked about some macro headwinds. Those continue in a couple of areas, some lengthening of sales cycles, pushing out of decisions and things like that from time to time. But with all of that in mind, we feel really good about the things we can control. We feel really good about the investments that we've made and the trajectory ahead. And we also have really -- we still believe and we shouldn't -- we don't think that this movement across 2 different business units should say anything different.

我們還談到了一些宏觀逆風。這些在幾個領域繼續存在，一些銷售週期的延長，不時推出決策和類似的事情。但考慮到所有這些，我們對我們可以控制的事情感覺非常好。我們對我們所做的投資和未來的發展軌跡感到非常滿意。而且我們也真的 - 我們仍然相信而且我們不應該 - 我們認為跨越兩個不同業務部門的這種運動不應該說任何不同的東西。

There is a better together story here. Our products really amplify one another. But what we found is that having very specific sales focus across the unique needs of each of these buyers is a really important one. And we think having moved our Segment and Flex teams into separate spaces last year started that momentum building. And now this business unit move is one more step in that direction of focus.

這裡有一個更好的故事。我們的產品確實可以相互放大。但我們發現，針對每個買家的獨特需求制定非常具體的銷售重點是非常重要的。我們認為去年將我們的 Segment 和 Flex 團隊轉移到不同的空間開始了這種勢頭的建立。現在，這個業務部門的變動是朝著這個重點方向邁出的又一步。

I think that hit both of the questions, but I'm going to hand it to Jeff for a little bit more commentary.

我認為這兩個問題都成立了，但我將把它交給 Jeff 進行更多評論。

Yes. Thanks, Meta. I think your -- the second part of your question was really about like synergies, dissynergies, et cetera. So I'll tell you how I think about it. Every customer who comes to us for communications, like they actually have a use case in mind for how they're going to engage with their customers, right? They need voice, maybe it's because they need a contact center. They need messaging for identity verification or for customer contact two-way. They need to e-mail for a marketing use case, right? There are these finite use cases for the vast majority of the things people use us for, and these use cases kind of cluster together.

是的。謝謝，梅塔。我認為你的問題的第二部分實際上是關於協同作用、不協同作用等。所以我會告訴你我是怎麼想的。每個來找我們交流的客戶，就像他們實際上有一個關於他們將如何與客戶互動的用例，對吧？他們需要語音，也許是因為他們需要聯絡中心。他們需要用於身份驗證或客戶雙向聯繫的消息傳遞。他們需要通過電子郵件發送營銷用例，對嗎？人們使用我們的絕大多數事情都有這些有限的用例，這些用例有點聚集在一起。

So we have this opportunity to ask customers, hey, what are you trying to accomplish? What are you trying to do with our platform? And by the way, have you looked at this other part of our platform that may actually help you achieve that better, faster or even cheaper in some cases. Our applications create value for customers by answering their need in a more direct way over the communications channels that we then just use to execute the delivery of those messages.

所以我們有機會問客戶，嘿，你想完成什麼？你想用我們的平台做什麼？順便說一下，您是否看過我們平台的其他部分，在某些情況下，它實際上可以幫助您更好、更快甚至更便宜地實現這一目標。我們的應用程序通過通信渠道以更直接的方式回答他們的需求，從而為客戶創造價值，然後我們僅使用這些渠道來執行這些消息的傳遞。

And so I think this is how this space is going to be won over time. It's getting it to why customers are sending these messages and doing these communications with our customers, in addition to powering the messages themselves. So you might say, Jeff, the 2 business unit structure, wow, it seems like that makes it harder to actually bring these 2 worlds together. And at first wash, that may have been the appearance. But today, let me tell you, what we've learned what didn't work was have everything lumped into one back of a sales rep. And we've talked about that reason in the past the way I just hit on it, right?

所以我認為這就是隨著時間的推移贏得這個空間的方式。這就是為什麼客戶發送這些消息並與我們的客戶進行這些通信的原因，除了為消息本身提供動力之外。所以你可能會說，傑夫，2 個業務部門的結構，哇，這似乎讓將這 2 個世界真正結合在一起變得更加困難。第一次洗時，這可能是外觀。但是今天，讓我告訴你，我們了解到什麼是行不通的，那就是將所有內容都集中在銷售代表的背上。我們過去曾以我偶然想到的方式討論過這個原因，對吧？

So at this stage, what we're focusing on is the unique needs of the various buyers with specialization there and focus. But we're also going to collaborate and partner, utilizing our own data and intelligence to uncover opportunities to incentivize cross-team collaboration and to go understand which of our customers need which of these use cases, and therefore, would be really good customers of our applications and our data stack.

所以在這個階段，我們關注的是各種買家的獨特需求，他們在那裡有專業化和專注。但我們也將合作和合作，利用我們自己的數據和情報來發現激勵跨團隊協作的機會，並了解我們的哪些客戶需要這些用例中的哪些，因此，他們將成為真正的好客戶我們的應用程序和我們的數據堆棧。

But I think it's important to distinguish here -- this is the important part -- between the short and medium term and the medium and long term. Because in the short to medium term, it's clear that we've got work to do to make Communications more profitable and to take our Data & Applications business and execute on the sales model. But I see these things as foundational that the current environment is setting the stage for us to do, but we're getting better at using our data to drive these cross-sell conversations, both in things like marketing and our automation but also in our sales conversations. And then over time, we build more and more product connectivity between these various products. And it's obvious how, with better customer data in terms of segment, we can power smarter, better, more effective communications, and that drives more usage of our platform. And so I think that's how the synergies play out. But you do have to look at it short to medium term, medium to long term.

但我認為在這里區分短期和中期和中期和長期是很重要的——這是重要的部分。因為從中短期來看，很明顯我們需要做一些工作來提高通信的盈利能力，並利用我們的數據和應用程序業務並執行銷售模式。但我認為這些事情是當前環境為我們做的基礎，但我們越來越善於使用我們的數據來推動這些交叉銷售對話，無論是在營銷和我們的自動化方面，還是在我們的銷售談話。然後隨著時間的推移，我們在這些不同的產品之間建立了越來越多的產品連接。很明顯，憑藉更好的細分客戶數據，我們可以提供更智能、更好、更有效的通信，並推動我們平台的更多使用。所以我認為這就是協同效應發揮作用的方式。但你必須從短期到中期、中期到長期來看待它。

(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from the line of Mark Murphy with JPMorgan.

（操作員說明）你的下一個問題來自摩根大通的馬克墨菲。

Congratulations to all the new folks who have been promoted. My first question is regarding the $250 million to $350 million non-GAAP operating profit that you expect this year. Should we assume that all of that is being generated by the Communications business, or perhaps more than 100% of that if we were to assume that the Data & Applications business is unprofitable this year?

恭喜所有升職的新人。我的第一個問題是關於您預計今年 2.5 億至 3.5 億美元的非 GAAP 營業利潤。我們是否應該假設所有這些都是由通信業務產生的，或者如果我們假設數據和應用程序業務今年無利可圖，那麼可能超過 100%？

Mark, this is Khozema. I'll take that question. It's really the latter part of what you said. It's more than 100%, and that's kind of intentional on our part. We do think that we can be very efficient in the way that we bring the Communications business to market and that it can throw off a lot of profitability, while at the same time, the data and applications business, they're in the middle of an investment cycle, and we're early stages in that. And so we do think it's appropriate so long as we're making judicious investments to be able to grow the top line of that business. It's also gross margin accretive, which we think is important longer term. But it is going to take some losses in the short term, which will work themselves out over time.

馬克，這是 Khozema。我會回答這個問題。真的是你說的後半部分。它超過 100%，這是我們故意的。我們確實認為我們可以非常有效地將通信業務推向市場並且它可以擺脫很多盈利能力，而與此同時，數據和應用程序業務正處於中間一個投資週期，我們處於早期階段。因此，我們確實認為只要我們進行明智的投資以增加該業務的收入，這是合適的。這也增加了毛利率，我們認為這在長期內很重要。但它會在短期內承受一些損失，這些損失會隨著時間的推移自行解決。

Okay. Understood. And then as a follow-up, I looked at the prepared remarks and it says that some of the macro headwinds that you had mentioned still persist. So I'm wondering if you could just clarify whether the buyer behavior feels any better out there, I mean in terms of the bookings cadence in recent months? Or would you say that, that is still continuing to degrade somehow?

好的。明白了。然後作為後續行動，我查看了準備好的評論，它說你提到的一些宏觀逆風仍然存在。所以我想知道你是否可以澄清買家的行為是否感覺更好，我的意思是就最近幾個月的預訂節奏而言？或者你會說，它仍在以某種方式繼續退化嗎？

It's Elena. I'll take that one. I would say those factors persist. I wouldn't say it's all been flushed out of the system. But I think we're also getting better at navigating it. So we did -- we are comfortable with where our Q4 bookings landed in our data and applications space. And we're -- we think our products actually play a vital role in tough economic times. And so we're sort of navigating that headwind in the field as best we can. We've updated our messaging. We're making sure that we're very clear about why allocating budget to these kinds of products, at this time, in particular, is vital and important. And we think that message is landing. But definitely, economically, I don't think we're out of the woods yet. I'll hand it to Kho for more commentary.

是埃琳娜。我會拿那個。我會說這些因素仍然存在。我不會說它已全部從系統中清除。但我認為我們也越來越善於駕馭它。所以我們做到了——我們對第四季度的預訂在我們的數據和應用程序領域的位置感到滿意。而且我們 - 我們認為我們的產品實際上在艱難的經濟時期發揮著至關重要的作用。因此，我們正在盡我們所能來應對該領域的逆風。我們更新了消息。我們確保我們非常清楚為什麼在此時將預算分配給這些類型的產品是至關重要的。我們認為這個消息正在落地。但絕對地，在經濟上，我認為我們還沒有走出困境。我會把它交給 Kho 以獲得更多評論。

Mark, just one other thing I wanted to add is that importantly, we do intend to drive profitability through whatever the cycle ends up being. We provided a relatively large range on the non-GAAP operating profit in light of the current macro conditions, which are pretty dynamic, but we do think we can be profitable through whatever the cycle is, and we intend to be.

馬克，我想補充的另一件事是，重要的是，我們確實打算通過最終的周期來推動盈利能力。鑑於當前的宏觀狀況，我們提供了相對較大的非 GAAP 營業利潤範圍，這是非常動態的，但我們確實認為無論周期如何，我們都可以盈利，而且我們打算這樣做。

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Turrin with Wells Fargo.

你的下一個問題來自富國銀行的 Michael Turrin。

I guess just a follow-on on the operating income guide, because it certainly stands out just relative to what was expected. Can we just -- I know you're guiding specifically for operating income, but just anything you can add on what would get you to $250 million versus $350 million? And how to think about just gross margin in the context of that conversation relative to the potential growth outcomes that would drive the delta potentially?

我想這只是營業收入指南的後續，因為它確實比預期的要突出。我們可以 - 我知道你是專門針對營業收入進行指導的，但是你可以添加任何可以使你達到 2.5 億美元而不是 3.5 億美元的東西？以及如何在該對話的背景下考慮相對於可能推動三角洲的潛在增長結果的毛利率？

Yes, a lot there, Michael. So let me just try to unpack it a little bit. So in terms of -- I think the way that we planned for it is that irrespective of kind of the gross margin outcomes, we're going to be able to deliver operating profitability within that range. I think the difference will be basically that if revenue kind of performs in line or kind of within a range of our expectations, then we'll be at the higher end of the range. And if it doesn't, then we'll kind of be at the lower end of the range. Given how dynamic the macro is, we did want to provide a little bit of a cushion. We wanted to kind of plan and run the place a bit more conservatively in light of things that we've seen. Certainly, a lot of companies have reported similar. But irrespective, we'll be profitable, but that's kind of the color behind why that range.

是的，有很多，邁克爾。所以讓我試著把它拆開一點。因此，就-我認為我們計劃的方式是，無論毛利率結果如何，我們都將能夠在該範圍內實現運營盈利。我認為區別基本上在於，如果收入表現符合我們的預期或在我們的預期範圍內，那麼我們將處於該範圍的高端。如果沒有，那麼我們就會處於該範圍的低端。考慮到宏的動態性，我們確實想提供一點緩衝。我們想根據我們所看到的情況更保守地規劃和運營這個地方。當然，很多公司都有類似的報告。但無論如何，我們都會盈利，但這就是為什麼這個範圍背後的顏色。

In terms of gross margins, as I said, I don't think that they'll really have an impact on the way that this plays out. We're really trying to orient the business much more towards gross profit generation. We talked a little bit about that during our Investor Day. So long as the unit economics are good, especially in the Communications business, they're already very strong on the data and applications business, then we're going to keep seeking gross profit dollars, I think a key difference being going forward that those gross profit dollars will drive incremental op profit dollars.

就毛利率而言，正如我所說，我認為它們不會真正對這種情況產生影響。我們確實在努力使業務更多地轉向產生毛利。我們在投資者日期間談到了一點。只要單位經濟效益良好，尤其是在通信業務方面，它們在數據和應用程序業務方面已經非常強大，那麼我們將繼續尋求毛利美元，我認為一個關鍵的區別在於那些毛利潤美元將推動增量運營利潤美元。

Very helpful. It's a substantial answer to a substantial question. Just a quick follow-up, if I may. On the expansion rates, we're seeing compression in a number of different vendors across software. Can you just walk through what's driving the expansion rate headwinds you're seeing currently and how that informs the 1Q guide?

很有幫助。這是對實質性問題的實質性回答。如果可以的話，只是快速跟進。在擴展率方面，我們看到許多不同的軟件供應商都在壓縮。您能否簡單介紹一下是什麼推動了您目前看到的擴張速度逆風，以及這如何影響 1Q 指南？

Yes. I think the expansion rate basically kind of follows some of the revenue growth rate decel that you've seen. One of the things about our business is that as macroeconomic factors kind of take the economy and other businesses down, given the usage-based nature of our business, we tend to feel those a little bit more acutely, kind of in the same way that we felt them a bit more acutely on the way up, right? If you kind of go back a couple of cycles or even the most recent cycle to COVID, like we turned up very, very quickly as different macro factors kind of pulled markets up. And so I think we're starting to see that come down a little bit.

是的。我認為擴張速度基本上有點像你看到的一些收入增長率下降。關於我們業務的一件事是，由於宏觀經濟因素有點拖累經濟和其他業務，鑑於我們業務基於使用的性質，我們傾向於更敏銳地感受到這些，有點像我們在上升的過程中對它們的感覺更加強烈，對吧？如果你回顧幾個週期甚至最近的 COVID 週期，就像我們很快出現一樣，因為不同的宏觀因素有點拉動市場。所以我認為我們開始看到這種情況有所下降。

In terms of the Q1 guide, I mean we still feel quite good about our ability to generate revenue growth in spite of a very difficult macroeconomic environment on a year-on-year basis, and we'll just continue to monitor it.

就第一季度指南而言，我的意思是，儘管宏觀經濟環境與去年同期相比非常困難，但我們仍然對我們實現收入增長的能力感到非常滿意，我們將繼續對其進行監控。

Your next question comes from the line of Ittai Kidron with Oppenheimer.

你的下一個問題來自 Ittai Kidron 與 Oppenheimer 的合作。

This is Param Singh on for Ittai Kidron. So firstly, I want to understand what are the areas within Communications you were able to cut back on overhead? Was it because of excessive hiring in '21? And how much of that cutback are, you would say, some international, which has a significantly lower gross margin profile?

我是 Ittai Kidron 的 Param Singh。因此，首先，我想了解您能夠削減開銷的通信領域有哪些？是因為 21 年招聘過多嗎？你會說，這些削減中有多少是一些毛利率明顯較低的國際公司？

I don't think we entirely heard your question. So I'm just going to try to play it back for a second. What I understood the question as being that in what areas were we able to cut back in the Communications business? And what proportion of that was international relative to other markets? Is that right?

我認為我們沒有完全聽到你的問題。所以我要試著回放一下。我對這個問題的理解是，我們能夠在哪些領域削減通信業務？相對於其他市場，其中有多少是國際性的？是對的嗎？

Yes. That was the general crux of it, but I also wanted to understand like was -- is this because you over-hired in '21 in communications that you're getting back to more normalized [co]? Or are there other areas of streamlining a Communications business that were previously not identified? So I just wanted to understand some of the dynamics behind the restructuring that we announced in the past since September?

是的。這是它的一般癥結所在，但我也想像過去一樣理解——這是因為你在 21 世紀的通信領域過度僱用了你正在回到更規範化的 [co] 嗎？或者是否還有其他以前未確定的精簡通信業務的領域？所以我只想了解我們自 9 月以來宣布的重組背後的一些動態？

Yes. I mean I guess what I would say is that there's a couple of parts to it. So if you go back to the fall and the restructuring that we did at that time, I would call that like kind of more cost cutting. Obviously, it had the unfortunate impact of us having to part ways with about 11% of our workforce at the time. And that obviously is something that we feel bad about, but that was more kind of in the cost-cutting vein. And I would say this time around, it was more a restructuring around 2 different businesses that we think can drive better outcomes, both for our customers as well as our share owners just given the different buying cycles that have economic aspects of the 2 different businesses.

是的。我的意思是我想我會說的是它有幾個部分。因此，如果你回到我們當時所做的秋季和重組，我會稱之為更多的成本削減。顯然，這對我們造成了不幸的影響，當時我們不得不與大約 11% 的員工分道揚鑣。這顯然是我們感到難過的事情，但這更像是一種削減成本的方式。我要說的是，這一次，它更多地是圍繞我們認為可以為我們的客戶和我們的股東帶來更好結果的兩個不同業務的重組，只是考慮到兩個不同業務具有經濟方面的不同購買週期.

In terms of where the costs came from, I would say it was pretty much across the board. Like I wouldn't necessarily point out that it was heavier international necessarily relative to the way that it played out domestically. A lot of our roles are kind of global facing. Certainly, once you get out of go-to-market, the rules are very global facing, especially in engineering and G&A. So I wouldn't say that we pulled more out of international than in any other kind of region.

就成本的來源而言，我想說這幾乎是全面的。就像我不一定要指出的那樣，相對於它在國內的表現方式，它在國際上必然更重。我們的很多角色都是面向全球的。當然，一旦您退出上市，規則就會面向全球，尤其是在工程和 G&A 方面。所以我不會說我們從國際上撤出的比在任何其他類型的地區都多。

One of the things to point out in international in particular is that, and we talked about this at our last Investor Day, the unit economics of that business are actually quite strong. And so we want to continue growing in international markets so long as those unit economics are good. And we're going to continue pursuing business in that way. But that hopefully gives you a little bit of color in terms of the costs that we try to take out this time.

在國際上特別要指出的一件事是，我們在上一個投資者日談到了這一點，該業務的單位經濟實際上非常強大。因此，只要這些單位經濟效益良好，我們就希望在國際市場上繼續增長。我們將繼續以這種方式開展業務。但是，就我們這次嘗試降低的成本而言，這有希望給你一些顏色。

Absolutely. And then if I could really get -- I want to understand the level of investments you're making in software, considering this past quarter is only 22% growth and $444 -- $441 million is a little light. So I just want to understand the impact of your operating headwind that you're going to have in the near term while you grow this business to hopefully a $1 billion-plus business.

絕對地。然後，如果我真的能——我想了解你在軟件方面的投資水平，考慮到上個季度只有 22% 的增長和 444 美元——4.41 億美元有點少。因此，我只想了解在您將這項業務發展到希望超過 10 億美元的業務時，您將在短期內遇到的運營逆風的影響。

Yes. I mean we're not going to break out that number specifically. What we did do is say in our prepared remarks that we're guiding in the current year to about $250 million to $350 million of non-GAAP operating profit. Offsetting that or included in that number is about $150 million of incremental OpEx. And there's 2 dimensions of that, that we specifically broke out. One was an increase in the way that we're going to compensate employees vis-a-vis bonuses to help us offset some stock-based compensation headwinds that we've seen over the last few years that would otherwise continue. And then the balance of that will really be predominantly investments in Segment and Flex. We think those are smart investments because we think those can accelerate the growth of those products. And then there's a little bit of other stuff in there as well, but we're not going to break out that number specifically.

是的。我的意思是我們不會具體列出這個數字。我們所做的是在我們準備好的評論中說，我們將在本年度指導非 GAAP 營業利潤達到約 2.5 億至 3.5 億美元。抵消或包含在該數字中的是大約 1.5 億美元的增量運營支出。我們特別指出了其中的兩個維度。一個是我們將增加相對於獎金對員工進行補償的方式，以幫助我們抵消我們在過去幾年中看到的一些基於股票的薪酬逆風，否則這些逆風將繼續存在。然後，其餘額實際上將主要是對 Segment 和 Flex 的投資。我們認為這些是明智的投資，因為我們認為這些可以加速這些產品的增長。然後裡面還有一些其他的東西，但我們不會具體列出這個數字。

Your next question comes from the line of Taylor McGinnis with UBS.

你的下一個問題來自瑞銀集團的 Taylor McGinnis。

So lots of great incremental color on the call. But one area that you didn't discuss was the 15% to 25% revenue outlook you provided at the Analyst Day. I would imagine, given some of the changes that, that outlook might be a little bit stale. But any color you could provide on how you're thinking about the revenue potential now?

通話中有很多很棒的增量顏色。但是你沒有討論的一個領域是你在分析師日提供的 15% 到 25% 的收入前景。我想，考慮到一些變化，這種前景可能有點陳舊。但是你可以提供任何關於你現在如何考慮收入潛力的顏色嗎？

And then as a second part to that question, just looking at the 1Q guide, could you maybe talk a little bit more about what's embedded in that rev guide? And particularly how it might relate to some of the changes you made and any risk of disruption?

然後作為該問題的第二部分，只看 1Q 指南，您能否多談談該修訂指南中嵌入的內容？特別是它與您所做的一些更改以及任何中斷風險有何關係？

Taylor, this is Khozema. I'll take that question. So the 15% to 25% is really a medium-term guide. We both provided a revenue guide on the overall business of 15% to 25% in the medium term, which we labeled as 3 to 5 years during our Investor Day as well as 30% plus in the software business. And those aren't changed.

泰勒，這是 Khozema。我會回答這個問題。所以 15% 到 25% 實際上是一個中期指導。我們都提供了中期整體業務 15% 至 25% 的收入指南，我們在投資者日將其標記為 3 至 5 年，軟件業務為 30% 以上。這些都沒有改變。

Beyond that, what we have said a few times now is that just given the dynamicism in the macro environment, that we're going to continue guiding quarter-to-quarter on the top line for now until we see the macroeconomic picture kind of clear up. We haven't seen that play out, really. In fact, we've seen it kind of get a little bit more rocky over the last couple of months. And so we just want to be smart about the way that we guide things. I think that the 14% to 15% that we called out in Q1 is kind of reflective of that.

除此之外，我們現在已經說過幾次的是，鑑於宏觀環境的動態，我們將繼續在頂線上繼續按季度指導，直到我們看到宏觀經濟形勢變得清晰為止向上。我們還沒有看到結果，真的。事實上，在過去的幾個月裡，我們已經看到它有點不穩定。因此，我們只想在引導事物的方式上保持聰明。我認為我們在第一季度提出的 14% 到 15% 反映了這一點。

It is a tougher macroeconomic environment. I think in spite of that, we're going to be able to put up pretty good growth numbers on a year-on-year basis. But I think it's basically macro signals that we're seeing that are kind of making us think about the business in light of a number of different things that could play out, and it just seems prudent to us to kind of plan and run the business conservatively in light of that.

這是一個更加嚴峻的宏觀經濟環境。我認為儘管如此，我們仍將能夠提供相當不錯的同比增長數據。但我認為，我們看到的基本上是宏觀信號，讓我們根據可能發生的許多不同的事情來思考業務，而且對我們來說，規劃和經營業務似乎是謹慎的保守地考慮到這一點。

And then my last quick follow-up is I appreciate that you're talking near term about EBIT dollars and gross profit dollars and putting the focus there. But just as we think about the guide, that's the medium-term operating margin guide is on a percentage basis. So can you just talk about what gives you comfort in that 300 to 400 medium-term outlook that you provided?

然後我的最後一個快速跟進是我很感激你在近期談論 EBIT 美元和毛利潤美元並將重點放在那裡。但正如我們考慮指南一樣，中期營業利潤率指南是按百分比計算的。那麼，您能否談談您提供的 300 到 400 的中期前景讓您感到欣慰的是什麼？

Yes. I mean I guess the way that I would say it is, is that you got a couple of factors in the mix. So first is that we gave you $250 million to $350 million in the current year. That gives you some sense of kind of how we're anchoring 2023 to give us a base off of which to grow. As we look out over the next several years, we're obviously taking into account our medium-term revenue guide with some appreciation in software, given that we've called that at 30% plus. And so if you kind of run the math out over the next several years and assume a few different things around gross margins and the gross profit dollars that each of those 2 businesses will kick out, that kind of gives us a sense of how profitable a business that this can become. And then I think some discipline on the OpEx side, which I think we've shown over the last couple of periods and certainly the most recent actions, really give us a sense of just how simplified and efficient we can run the business. That kind of gives us the confidence to say, as we look out, we can drive additional op margin accretion, which ultimately will yield GAAP profitability in 2027.

是的。我的意思是我想我會說的方式是，你在混合中有幾個因素。首先是我們在當年給了你 2.5 億到 3.5 億美元。這讓您對我們如何錨定 2023 年以為我們的發展奠定基礎有所了解。當我們展望未來幾年時，我們顯然正在考慮我們的中期收入指南，並在軟件方面有所升值，因為我們稱其為 30% 以上。因此，如果您對未來幾年進行一些數學運算，並假設這兩家企業各自的毛利率和毛利潤美元有一些不同，那會讓我們了解一家公司的盈利能力如何。這可以成為的業務。然後我認為 OpEx 方面的一些紀律，我認為我們在過去幾個時期以及最近的行動中已經展示，確實讓我們了解我們可以多麼簡化和高效地開展業務。這讓我們有信心說，正如我們所期待的那樣，我們可以推動額外的運營利潤率增長，最終將在 2027 年產生 GAAP 盈利能力。

Your next question comes from the line of Nick Altmann with Scotiabank.

你的下一個問題來自豐業銀行的 Nick Altmann。

Great. Just a follow-up on the prior questions. Just given how significant of a level of the restructuring you guys have done and you look at sort of the 1Q guide, how much of the headwind to growth is coming from the restructuring and having less quota-carrying reps versus some of these macro factors and the shift of focus to data and applications?

偉大的。只是對先前問題的跟進。只要考慮到你們所做的重組程度有多重要，並且你們看一下 1Q 指南，增長的逆風有多少來自重組，以及與其中一些宏觀因素相比，配額代表較少，以及重點轉向數據和應用程序？

Yes. Nick, this is Khozema. I'll take that one. Not much, to be honest. I mean the reality is, is that in the short term, there may be some impact, so I don't want to suggest that they're going to be 0. But I think by and large, the Q1 guide is not informed by some of the restructuring actions, either that we undertook in the last half of last year nor the ones that we took just a few days ago. The revenue model and the way that the bookings play out, it takes a little bit of time for things to catch up. Again, as I said, I'm not going to say that it's going to be 0. But as we kind of put our planning assumptions together, we felt pretty good about the way that we guided in Q1 and took whatever impacts there may have been into account.

是的。尼克，這是 Khozema。我會拿那個。不多，老實說。我的意思是，現實情況是，在短期內，可能會產生一些影響，所以我不想暗示它們會是 0。但我認為總的來說，Q1 指南沒有被告知一些重組行動，要么是我們在去年下半年進行的，要么是我們幾天前才進行的。收入模式和預訂的方式，需要一點時間才能趕上。同樣，正如我所說，我不會說它會是 0。但是當我們將我們的規劃假設放在一起時，我們對我們在第一季度的指導方式以及可能產生的任何影響感到非常滿意被考慮在內。

I'm going to add one bit of context to that, if you will. Sorry, this is Jeff. I aim to underscore something that was said earlier that I think bears repeating, which is that we have a usage-based pricing model. And in a usage-based pricing model, we see an accelerated headwind in a macro environment like this. And I think that's what you're seeing in our recent results and in our guidance.

如果您願意，我將為此添加一點上下文。抱歉，我是傑夫。我的目的是強調之前說過的我認為值得重複的事情，那就是我們有一個基於使用的定價模型。在基於使用的定價模型中，我們看到在這樣的宏觀環境中逆風加速。我認為這就是你在我們最近的結果和我們的指導中看到的。

What we're not seeing, though, is a real change in, for example, our competitive situation, right? I think what you're seeing is a representation of just consumer activity and the general economic activity being slightly muted during this period of time. But I think this also can play to our strength as you see economic recovery occur because that can be an accelerated tailwind for us as well. And that's also the nature of a usage-based pricing model, and as we mentioned earlier, like we saw in the early days of the pandemic when people were using our product for many new use cases. And so I think we are an accelerated view into the macro economy based on a usage-based model.

但是，我們沒有看到真正的變化，例如，我們的競爭形勢，對吧？我認為你所看到的只是消費者活動的代表，而總體經濟活動在此期間略有減弱。但我認為這也可以發揮我們的優勢，因為你看到經濟復甦正在發生，因為這對我們來說也可能是一個加速的順風。這也是基於使用的定價模型的本質，正如我們之前提到的，就像我們在大流行初期看到的那樣，當時人們在許多新用例中使用我們的產品。因此，我認為我們正在基於基於使用的模型加速觀察宏觀經濟。

And as we do move towards the economic recovery, I think you'll see a company that is in a really good position because we are more streamlined. We are more focused. And we've got a great customer base to enable us to see the tailwind from that recovery, including the business model. And I just think it's worth again pointing out the nature of the usage model, which is, generally speaking, a great benefit to us during these times, feels like a little bit of a headwind for us. But I think in the long term, it's still the right model.

隨著我們朝著經濟復甦邁進，我認為你會看到一家處於非常有利地位的公司，因為我們更加精簡。我們更加專注。我們擁有龐大的客戶群，使我們能夠看到復甦的順風，包括商業模式。我只是認為有必要再次指出使用模型的性質，一般來說，這在這段時間對我們來說是一個很大的好處，但對我們來說感覺有點不利。但我認為從長遠來看，它仍然是正確的模式。

Great. And then just as a follow-up. Earlier, you had said that the $250 million to $350 million operating profit outlook does not embed any gross margin expansion on the Communications side of the business. But now that you're sort of managing the business in 2 separate units, can you maybe just walk us through the margin implications for the Communications side? I mean would you guys ever sort of disclose that business unit as a separate entity in reporting? Do you have plans to pay a little bit more attention to the gross margin profile there and maybe be a little bit more disciplined on discounting on that part of the business?

偉大的。然後作為後續行動。早些時候，您曾說過 2.5 億至 3.5 億美元的營業利潤前景並未包含通信業務方面的任何毛利率增長。但既然您在 2 個獨立的部門中管理業務，您能否向我們介紹一下對通信方面的利潤率影響？我的意思是你們會在報告中將該業務部門作為一個單獨的實體披露嗎？您是否有計劃更多地關注那裡的毛利率狀況，並且可能對這部分業務的折扣更加嚴格？

Yes. I mean so there's a couple of things that you said in there. So in terms -- let me just take the latter part first, and then I'll come back to the first part of the question. So we actually are pretty disciplined already in the way that we price the product. And so I feel quite good about the way that the pricing mechanisms work. The unit economics are very strong, whether they're domestic or international, and we tend to be priced higher than the other guys. And as Jeff said a moment ago, we're not losing share. And so we feel very, very good about the way that the product is priced, and more importantly, about the value that our customers get from the product.

是的。我的意思是，你在那裡說過幾件事。因此，就條款而言——讓我先談談後一部分，然後我會回到問題的第一部分。因此，我們實際上已經在為產品定價的方式上非常自律。因此，我對定價機制的運作方式感到非常滿意。單位經濟效益非常好，無論是國內還是國際，我們的定價往往比其他人高。正如傑夫剛才所說，我們不會失去份額。因此，我們對產品的定價方式感到非常非常滿意，更重要的是，我們對客戶從產品中獲得的價值感到滿意。

In terms of disclosures, which I think is kind of the other aspect of your question, what we committed during our Investor Day is that we provide additional transparency in terms of what we're now calling Communications and then our Data & Applications businesses. And we're going to continue doing that, as we have in the current quarter. And I think one of the things that we're going to work through over the next few quarters is just to develop a little bit more robust reporting as we operationalize the business units. And we expect that, that probably will lead to additional disclosure over time.

在披露方面，我認為這是你問題的另一個方面，我們在投資者日承諾的是，我們在我們現在所說的通信以及我們的數據和應用程序業務方面提供額外的透明度。我們將繼續這樣做，就像我們在本季度所做的那樣。而且我認為我們將在接下來的幾個季度中完成的事情之一就是在我們運營業務部門時開發更強大的報告。我們預計，隨著時間的推移，這可能會導致更多的披露。

Your next question comes from the line of Fred Havemeyer with Macquarie Capital.

你的下一個問題來自 Fred Havemeyer 與 Macquarie Capital 的合作。

A question perhaps for Jeff and for Khozema. Firstly, it's great to see and hear that you are returning to the North Star in communications of the product-led growth story there. I wanted to ask with that, with that shift and de-emphasis of a sales-led motion back towards more product-led growth, should we anticipate any sort of change in, say, quarterly cadence of revenue within the Communications segment relative to what we've seen in prior years?

也許是 Jeff 和 Khozema 的問題。首先，很高興看到和聽到您回到北極星，在那里傳播以產品為主導的增長故事。我想問的是，隨著這種轉變和不再強調以銷售為主導的運動轉向更多以產品為主導的增長，我們是否應該預期通信部門的季度收入節奏會發生任何變化？我們在前幾年見過？

And I suppose also in that context, since you're guiding fiscal '23 on non-GAAP operating profitability, should we be thinking revenue -- of revenue at this point as less of a kind of a key metric for the company and something that will ultimately just be driving your operating margin outlook -- or rather, operating profitability outlook?

而且我想也是在這種情況下，因為你正在指導 23 財年的非 GAAP 運營盈利能力，我們是否應該考慮收入 - 此時的收入不是公司的一種關鍵指標，而是一些最終只會推動您的營業利潤率前景——或者更確切地說，營業利潤率前景？

Fred, this is Jeff. I'll take the first part of your question, and then I'll hand it to Kho probably for the second half of your question. For the first part, if I understand the question, I think you're asking like how will it affect revenue given that we're moving to more of a product-led growth strategy. And I would say, look, the goal -- once we win a customer, a lot of the growth in the account comes from their growth in the market, of taking something they built from a prototype that they're testing to a beta when they test out the idea to rolling it out to the entire customer base, and then the growth of their business and their customer base. And so really, it's about getting that kind of design win. And that's where developers are often very influential in the life cycle of adopting some of these communications products.

弗雷德，這是傑夫。我將回答你問題的第一部分，然後我可能會把它交給 Kho 來處理你問題的後半部分。對於第一部分，如果我理解這個問題，我想你會問，鑑於我們正在轉向更多以產品為主導的增長戰略，這將如何影響收入。我會說，看，目標——一旦我們贏得了客戶，客戶的很多增長都來自他們在市場上的增長，將他們從他們正在測試的原型構建的東西帶到測試版時他們測試了這個想法，將其推廣到整個客戶群，然後是他們的業務和客戶群的增長。所以真的，這是關於獲得那種設計勝利。這就是開發人員在採用其中一些通信產品的生命週期中通常非常有影響力的地方。

And so by moving back towards more product-led growth, what I think you're seeing is we're going to be investing in the things that make those developers and the companies that are in the early stages of adopting Twilio really successful in onboarding. And I think we see a lot of opportunities to go streamline the product, make it easier to get up and running, but also to scale these products as customers scale globally. And the product can do a lot more heavy lifting in areas where I think we've relied on people to actually help our customers over the line in recent periods. And you're right, this is a return to the roots of Twilio, which is to make the product enable our customers to find success quickly and easily with a really powerful product. And so that's what we're focused on. So I think it will help us enable bringing on new customers as well as continuing to scale our existing customers in a way that customers will actually appreciate because it's going to be easier and faster for them to do so. So for the second part of your question, I'll hand it to Kho.

因此，通過回歸到更多以產品為主導的增長，我想你看到的是我們將投資於那些使那些處於採用 Twilio 早期階段的開發人員和公司真正成功的事情.而且我認為我們看到了很多機會來簡化產品，使其更容易啟動和運行，同時隨著客戶在全球範圍內擴展而擴展這些產品。在我認為我們最近依賴人們實際幫助我們的客戶的領域，該產品可以做更多的繁重工作。你是對的，這是對 Twilio 根源的回歸，即讓產品能夠讓我們的客戶通過真正強大的產品快速輕鬆地獲得成功。這就是我們關注的重點。因此，我認為這將幫助我們吸引新客戶，並繼續以客戶真正欣賞的方式擴大現有客戶規模，因為他們這樣做會更容易、更快。所以對於你問題的第二部分，我會交給 Kho。

Fred, in terms of the second part of the question, I guess the way that I would think about it is, just to maybe take a step back and then I'll drill down for a second, is that one of the things that we thought a lot about as a company and as a management team is that we've become a really big business, but we also want to become a really profitable business. And so paired with becoming a large revenue generator, we also wanted to make sure that, that revenue threw off a lot of profit. And so that's why you've seen some of the restructuring that we've done into these 2 business units. We do think we have an opportunity to better focus in that way and generate a lot more profitability, for example, in the Communications business while fueling what we believe can be a tremendous amount of future growth in the Data & Applications business.

弗雷德，就問題的第二部分而言，我想我會考慮的方式是，退後一步，然後我會深入研究一下，這是我們作為一家公司和一個管理團隊，我們深思熟慮的是，我們已經成為一家真正的大企業，但我們也希望成為一家真正有利可圖的企業。因此，在成為一個巨大的收入來源的同時，我們還希望確保收入能夠帶來大量利潤。這就是為什麼你看到我們對這兩個業務部門進行的一些重組。我們確實認為我們有機會更好地專注於這種方式並產生更多的盈利能力，例如，在通信業務中，同時推動我們認為可以在數據和應用程序業務中實現巨大的未來增長。

With that said, we certainly haven't given up on growth in the Communications business. We still think there's a ton more growth for us to go get. What's fortunate for us is that we're operating in end markets that are still growing at very, very rapid rates. Our share is maintaining. And if anything, the pie is growing. And so that kind of bodes well in terms of a great growth setup going forward. We're still underpenetrated, I would say, internationally, and so that's a real opportunity. And then I think on the Data & Applications business, really, for us, the sky's the limit. We see a lot more growth opportunity there. As Jeff and Elena have both said during the course of this conversation, we think that our data capabilities pair really well with our communications capabilities, too. And so we think that will yield some additional growth, too. So profit will certainly be a key feature as part of these calls. We want to give folks a sense of confidence that we do see a line of sight to GAAP profitability, but please don't confuse that with any lack of focus on the growth side.

話雖如此，我們當然沒有放棄通信業務的增長。我們仍然認為我們還有更多的增長空間。對我們來說幸運的是，我們在仍在以非常非常快的速度增長的終端市場開展業務。我們的份額正在維持。如果有的話，餡餅正在增長。因此，就未來的巨大增長設置而言，這是個好兆頭。我想說，我們在國際上的滲透率仍然不足，所以這是一個真正的機會。然後我認為在數據和應用程序業務方面，對我們來說，真的，天空是極限。我們在那裡看到了更多的增長機會。正如 Jeff 和 Elena 在這次談話中所說的那樣，我們認為我們的數據能力與我們的通信能力也非常匹配。因此，我們認為這也會帶來一些額外的增長。因此，作為這些電話的一部分，利潤肯定是一個關鍵特徵。我們想讓人們相信我們確實看到了 GAAP 盈利能力的視線，但請不要將其與對增長方面缺乏關注相混淆。

And then just quickly for Elena. As you're thinking -- or as you're looking at the portfolio of apps on Twilio, where are you thinking about really prioritizing your investments into the software and services in the platform?

然後對 Elena 來說很快。正如您所想的那樣——或者當您查看 Twilio 上的應用程序組合時，您打算在哪裡真正優先考慮對平台中的軟件和服務的投資？

I think we're not going to, obviously, break that out in a lot of detail. But what I will tell you is that our Flex product is just at a different stage of play than our Segment product. So it's got fewer resources behind it, fewer sales reps behind it, et cetera. But we both see a ton of green build. We see a ton of green build opportunity across both of those solutions.

我認為我們顯然不會詳細說明這一點。但我要告訴你的是，我們的 Flex 產品與我們的 Segment 產品處於不同的階段。所以它背後的資源更少，背後的銷售代表更少，等等。但我們都看到了大量的綠色建築。我們在這兩種解決方案中看到了大量的綠色構建機會。

Segment is creating connectivity to our comms platform through our Engage product. We think that product actually will ultimately fuel Flex as well as we utilize our data capabilities to power better engagement through Flex. And so we actually see them -- some real opportunity to bring them together and for them to be better together as well as fuel our Communications business and vice versa. So we think they're all equally important in our portfolio, but the Segment business is sort of just at a different stage of play. So it's got a little more girth and heft to it than the Flex business does, but the Flex business is growing in a healthy clip as well.

Segment 正在通過我們的 Engage 產品創建與我們的通信平台的連接。我們認為該產品實際上最終將推動 Flex，並且我們利用我們的數據能力通過 Flex 推動更好的參與。因此，我們實際上看到了它們——一些真正的機會，可以將它們聚集在一起，讓它們更好地結合在一起，並為我們的通信業務提供動力，反之亦然。所以我們認為它們在我們的投資組合中都同樣重要，但部門業務只是處於不同的階段。因此，它比 Flex 業務有更多的周長和重量，但 Flex 業務也在健康增長。

Your next question comes from the line of Siti Panigrahi with Mizuho.

你的下一個問題來自 Siti Panigrahi 與 Mizuho 的對話。

This is Phil on for Siti. I just want to touch on the last question. So for Flex, I know it's one of your key strategic priorities, how is it performing in this environment? And what sort of changes can you guys make to increase share in the CCaaS market? And also, what kind of traction are you guys seeing on the Engage platform?

這是 Siti 的 Phil。我只想談談最後一個問題。因此，對於 Flex，我知道這是您的關鍵戰略重點之一，它在這種環境中的表現如何？你們可以做出什麼樣的改變來增加 CCaaS 市場的份額？而且，你們在 Engage 平台上看到了什麼樣的牽引力？

I'll take that, and I'll do it in reverse order. So just as a reminder, Engage went general availability in Q4, so just a couple of months ago. And we're excited about the trajectory that we're seeing there. We've got a couple of dozen new customers deploying a lot of really new and interesting use cases on Engage and throwing through new e-mails and new SMS messages all as part of that. And so -- and we've also talked about a couple of those customer wins in the back part of our prepared comments. There are a couple of others that we haven't been able to share directly but we're pretty excited about in terms of their utilization of Engage and Segment, both from a renewals perspective as well as a good chunk of net news that we're excited to bring live over the next couple of months. So strong performance there with Engage, and we think real opportunity going forward.

我會接受那個，我會按照相反的順序去做。提醒一下，Engage 在第四季度全面上市，就在幾個月前。我們對在那裡看到的軌跡感到興奮。我們有幾十個新客戶在 Engage 上部署了許多真正新穎有趣的用例，並通過新電子郵件和新 SMS 消息發送所有這些都是其中的一部分。因此 - 我們還在準備好的評論的後面部分談到了其中一些客戶的勝利。還有一些我們無法直接分享的，但我們對他們對 Engage 和 Segment 的使用感到非常興奮，無論是從續訂的角度還是我們的大量網絡新聞很高興能在接下來的幾個月裡直播。 Engage 的表現如此強勁，我們認為未來會有真正的機會。

Flex had good performance in Q4 as well. And as I mentioned in prior calls, we're in the process of building out these specialized sales forces doing a fair amount of hiring, enablement and onboarding. And as we see our sales reps coming online, getting out into the market and beating the competition head to head in these deals, we just -- our optimism is growing for how that product will perform in the space.

Flex 在第四季度也有不錯的表現。正如我在之前的電話中提到的那樣，我們正在建立這些專業的銷售隊伍，進行大量的招聘、支持和入職培訓。當我們看到我們的銷售代表上線、進入市場並在這些交易中與競爭對手正面交鋒時，我們只是——我們對該產品在該領域的表現越來越樂觀。

Just to kind of cap it off with a word on the competition. We're not seeing new competition, and we're not necessarily seeing loss rates that are bothersome in any way. This is a matter of sort of getting out there into the greenfield opportunity, embracing it, making sure we've got the right marketing messages, campaigns, fleet generation programs, and then bringing those deals through to close. So good momentum beginning to kick in as we see these new AEs coming online, and looking forward to sort of how that plays out here in 2023.

只是想用關於比賽的一句話來結束它。我們沒有看到新的競爭，也不一定會看到令人煩惱的損失率。這是一個進入綠地機會的問題，擁抱它，確保我們有正確的營銷信息、活動、車隊生成計劃，然後完成這些交易。當我們看到這些新的 AE 上線時，良好的勢頭開始出現，並期待著 2023 年的表現。

Your next question comes from the line of Alex Zukin with Wolfe Research.

您的下一個問題來自 Wolfe Research 的 Alex Zukin。

And honestly, congrats on one of the best, I would say, presentations thus far that we've seen from the company in many quarters on multiple fronts, including the buyback.

老實說，我想說，祝賀迄今為止我們在許多方面從公司看到的最好的演講之一，包括回購。

I guess the first question is, maybe I missed this or I missed it in the letter, but can you maybe just go a little bit deeper into the headwinds that you saw on growth on both the communications side and the applications side in Q4? Maybe also commenting on the linearity of the business in the quarter and what you're seeing into Q1, both the headwinds, I guess, but also the tailwinds to the point of how well you can be in both markets that are up and down?

我想第一個問題是，也許我錯過了這個或者我在信中錯過了它，但是你能否更深入地了解你在第四季度看到的通信方面和應用程序方面的增長逆風？也許還評論了本季度業務的線性度以及您在第一季度看到的情況，我想這既是逆風，也是順風，以至於您在這兩個市場中的表現如何？

Alex, this is Khozema. I'll take the question. And then if you have other color you'd like, Elena can certainly chime in as well. So I guess what I would say is that I'll just kind of echo something that Jeff said earlier, which is that, number one, we're not losing share. And so that gives us a lot of confidence that the business is headed in the right direction. Number two, we're just seeing a lot of dynamism in the macro environment. And as our business is usage based in large part, certainly on the Communications side, we start to feel those effects much sooner than many others do because we're kind of a leading indicator in some ways, both on the way down as well as on the way up. And so you saw a little bit of that, obviously, in our expansion rate and you're seeing a little bit of that as well in our reported Q4 results as well as the way that we're guiding in Q1.

亞歷克斯，這是 Khozema。我來回答這個問題。然後，如果您有其他喜歡的顏色，埃琳娜當然也可以插話。所以我想我要說的是，我只是重複 Jeff 之前說過的話，那就是，第一，我們不會失去份額。因此，這給了我們很大的信心，讓我們相信業務正朝著正確的方向發展。第二，我們只是在宏觀環境中看到了很多活力。由於我們的業務在很大程度上是基於使用的，當然是在通信方面，我們比其他許多人更早地開始感受到這些影響，因為我們在某些方面是領先指標，無論是在下降還是在上升的路上。因此，很明顯，您在我們的擴張率中看到了一點點，您在我們報告的第四季度結果以及我們在第一季度的指導方式中也看到了一點點。

In terms of some of the headwinds, it's -- there's nothing beyond really kind of the things that we called out previously. I mean I would point to general macro, which is a very broad category. But some of the stuff that we called out previously is crypto and social and e-com, retail. All of those industries, as you know, have been impacted pretty significantly. And you see that in various earnings reports. You see that in the news cycle. And so we're just kind of caught up in the same.

就一些不利因素而言，它是——除了我們之前提到的真正的事情之外，沒有什麼了。我的意思是我會指出一般宏觀，這是一個非常廣泛的類別。但我們之前提到的一些東西是加密、社交和電子商務、零售。如您所知，所有這些行業都受到了相當大的影響。您會在各種收益報告中看到這一點。你在新聞周期中看到了這一點。所以我們只是有點陷入同樣的困境。

And I think what's important for us is that we play through, that we continue to grow through whatever the environment is, and importantly, that we generate profitability in spite of whatever that macroeconomic environment is. So that's the way that I would really characterize it. I don't know, Elena, if there's anything else that you would add.

而且我認為對我們來說重要的是我們要堅持到底，無論環境如何，我們都要繼續發展，重要的是，無論宏觀經濟環境如何，我們都要創造盈利能力。所以這就是我真正描述它的方式。 Elena，我不知道你是否還有什麼要補充的。

I think that's good. I don't have anything else to add.

我覺得這樣很好。我沒有其他要補充的了。

And I guess just maybe following up from that. So if we look forward from here, I know I always ask the question about net retention. But if I think about that 110% number and I think about the progression through the year when you start to anniversary some of those negative effects, and to Jeff's earlier point, on the way up the consumption model can be -- or the usage model can be really good. If you think about the linearity of the year, understanding that you're not guiding, how should we think about that progression? Or how are you thinking about it internally? Is it a back half normalization stabilization of that retention rate? Is it something that shifts to more net new? What's the right way to categorize it?

我想也許只是跟進。所以如果我們從這裡向前看，我知道我總是問關於淨保留的問題。但是，如果我考慮到 110% 的數字，並且考慮到從周年紀念日開始的這一年中的一些負面影響，以及 Jeff 之前的觀點，在消費模型或使用模型的上升過程中真的很好。如果您考慮到這一年的線性，理解您沒有指導，那麼我們應該如何考慮這種進展？或者你內部是怎麼考慮的？它是該保留率的後半標準化穩定嗎？它會轉向更多的新事物嗎？什麼是正確的分類方法？

Alex, I wish I did know. I don't. I think that we're planning conservatively basically, given the macro. I think it's just a really dynamic environment. And so we're not necessarily forecasting an uptick per se. Could it be better? Maybe. I think we're all sort of hoping it's going to be, but we can't plan for that. And so we're going to plan for it kind of playing out the way that it has been maybe the last few months, last few quarters and kind of hope that it gets better. Obviously, our field teams are going to win like whatever the business they can. They're going to try to grow share in every way that we can off of our existing base. We're going to keep growing with the accounts that we have. But how that plays out in terms of DBNE, I just don't know. And as you know, like it's not something that we've historically forecasted to. All I'd say is that as the economy picks back up, our business will definitely pick back up, and we're certainly looking forward to the time that, that happens. By the way, I also appreciate your comments at the start of your question. Thank you.

亞歷克斯，我希望我知道。我不。考慮到宏觀，我認為我們基本上是在保守規劃。我認為這只是一個非常動態的環境。因此，我們不一定預測會上漲。會更好嗎？或許。我認為我們都希望它會成為現實，但我們無法為此做好計劃。因此，我們將按照過去幾個月、過去幾個季度的方式進行計劃，並希望它會變得更好。顯然，我們的現場團隊將盡其所能贏得勝利。他們將嘗試以各種方式增加我們現有基地的份額。我們將隨著我們擁有的賬戶不斷增長。但就 DBNE 而言，這是如何發揮作用的，我只是不知道。如您所知，這不是我們歷史上預測的事情。我要說的是，隨著經濟復甦，我們的業務肯定會復蘇，我們當然期待著那一天發生。順便說一句，我也很感謝您在問題開頭髮表的評論。謝謝。

Your next question comes from the line of Derrick Wood with Cowen.

你的下一個問題來自 Derrick Wood 和 Cowen 的對話。

Great. As you look at driving more efficiency in the business, can you talk about how partners are going to play a role and maybe what you're doing to drive more partner leverage, especially in light of shifting to a 2-business unit strategy?

偉大的。當您著眼於提高業務效率時，您能否談談合作夥伴將如何發揮作用，以及您正在做什麼來提高合作夥伴的影響力，尤其是在轉向兩個業務部門戰略的情況下？

Derrick, it's Elena. I'll take that one. We think partners play a vital role. They are helpful in bringing in some of the flagship customers you heard us talk about both this quarter and over the last couple of quarters. We put them in a couple of different camps. There's implementation partners that also could be reseller or referral partners. And then there's also just straight up referral partners that might have a piece of technology that works together well with one or more of our products. And so we are in the process of actually creating sort of bespoke partner acquisition, partner enablement and partner co-selling teams across our new sort of business unit structure. We think that will create a lot more focus on the opportunity there. And we're not going to sort of break out exactly what that trajectory looks like. But we do believe that partnership will play an important and growing, importantly, role in our growth and new bookings, both across the Data & Applications business as well as across the comms business.

德里克，是埃琳娜。我會拿那個。我們認為合作夥伴發揮著至關重要的作用。它們有助於引入您在本季度和過去幾個季度中聽到我們談論的一些旗艦客戶。我們把他們放在幾個不同的營地裡。實施合作夥伴也可以是經銷商或推薦合作夥伴。然後還有直截了當的推薦合作夥伴，他們可能擁有與我們的一個或多個產品協同工作的技術。因此，我們正在實際創建某種定制的合作夥伴收購、合作夥伴支持和合作夥伴共同銷售團隊，跨越我們新型的業務部門結構。我們認為這將使人們更加關注那裡的機會。而且我們不會確切地打破那個軌蹟的樣子。但我們確實相信，合作夥伴關係將在我們的增長和新預訂中發揮重要且不斷增長的作用，無論是在數據和應用程序業務中，還是在整個通信業務中。

Got it. Great. Maybe a follow-up for you, Elena, as well, on Segment. Just wondering how the progression of growth trended over the year. You guys obviously had a lot of organizational change. Just was hoping to get a comment on that. And then as you look at kind of how Q4 ended and going into Q1, what end market demand looks like for CDP investments in this macro condition?

知道了。偉大的。埃琳娜，也許你也可以在 Segment 上跟進。只是想知道這一年的增長趨勢如何。你們顯然進行了很多組織變革。只是希望對此發表評論。然後，當您查看第四季度如何結束並進入第一季度時，在這種宏觀條件下，CDP 投資的終端市場需求是什麼樣的？

Yes. Thanks, Derrick. And I think even the way you phrased the question is right. Into the beginning of last year is when we had some stumbling, lost a fair amount of key talent and then began to rebuild. That was a huge priority of mine when I came online in May. And we've worked to sort of execute through that hard time. And I think really, finally, you started to get our legs under us again in Q4 with a couple of really great customer wins. They're listed in the documents from us, but JPMorgan Chase was a fantastic win across multiple business units and with Engage and Segment; Box and a couple of others. We had some great new 7-figure consumer brand wins as well that we look forward to bringing live. So excited about their trajectory. A lot more work to do. As I mentioned, these AEs, or account execs, are still coming online and getting their own legs under them, but we're excited about their trajectory.

是的。謝謝，德里克。而且我認為即使是你對問題的表述方式也是正確的。進入去年年初，我們遇到了一些挫折，失去了相當多的關鍵人才，然後開始重建。當我五月份上線時，這是我的首要任務。我們一直在努力度過那個艱難時期。我認為真的，最後，你在第四季度再次贏得了我們的支持，贏得了一些非常棒的客戶。他們在我們的文件中列出，但摩根大通在多個業務部門以及 Engage 和 Segment 方面取得了驚人的勝利；盒子和其他幾個。我們還贏得了一些新的 7 位數消費品牌大獎，我們期待將其付諸實踐。對他們的軌跡感到非常興奮。還有很多工作要做。正如我所提到的，這些 AE 或客戶執行官仍在上線並在他們的支持下站穩腳跟，但我們對他們的發展軌跡感到興奮。

I think the CDP space is still in early innings, but I think also the important thing to note is sort of where we take it from here. So we think the data in the CDP can create amazing power across our applications. And then we also think what we're building in terms of orchestration with Engage, also in terms of connectivity to our communications platform as well as to Flex really just creates such an incredibly powerful set of capabilities for our customers but also competitive differentiation. So it's a matter of getting people to part with precious budgets right now. We feel like we've got a great message there. We feel like we really do create lift for brands, particularly in a time like this when it's really important to be super surgical about how they spend every single one of their marketing dollars. But when ad spend and marketing spend are impacted and are strained, people just want to spend a little bit more time in the sales cycle, a little bit more time making sure that it's exactly what they want. But we also know when we get to proof of concept, we tend to win. And so that's really what we're focused on, is making sure we get into the game and get those deals closed over time. So I wish I had a crystal ball on the macro environment, but we play through and we think we do well in that context.

我認為 CDP 空間仍處於早期階段，但我認為同樣需要注意的重要一點是我們從這裡開始的地方。所以我們認為 CDP 中的數據可以在我們的應用程序中產生驚人的力量。然後我們還認為我們在與 Engage 的編排方面正在構建的內容，以及與我們的通信平台以及 Flex 的連接性方面，實際上只是為我們的客戶創造瞭如此強大的功能集，同時也創造了競爭優勢。因此，這是讓人們立即放棄寶貴預算的問題。我們覺得我們在那里傳達了一個很好的信息。我們覺得我們確實確實為品牌創造了提升，尤其是在這樣一個時代，對他們如何花費每一筆營銷資金進行超級外科手術真的很重要。但是當廣告支出和營銷支出受到影響和緊張時，人們只想在銷售週期中多花一點時間，多花一點時間來確保這正是他們想要的。但我們也知道，當我們進行概念驗證時，我們往往會獲勝。所以這才是我們真正關注的，確保我們進入遊戲並隨著時間的推移完成這些交易。所以我希望我對宏觀環境有一個水晶球，但我們堅持到底，我們認為我們在這種情況下做得很好。

This is Jeff. I'll add one other thing. I'll just point out one other thing. If you noticed, we tweaked a lot of our messaging at SIGNAL last year for the buyers of this market, right? We said, look, this is about acquiring customers more efficiently and then increasing your lifetime value, your revenue with those customers. And so that really is a targeted message based on how our products are relevant in this period of time. And I think you see some of the results that we put out, both in terms of JPMorgan adopting Engage, Box, who is a long-time Segment customer moving into Engage, but also a leading e-commerce company that they adopted us in order to improve their ad spend. I mean these are really good examples from our customers that we could talk about in our prepared remarks of exactly what we see going on in the market.

這是傑夫。我再補充一件事。我只想指出另一件事。如果你注意到了，我們去年在 SIGNAL 上為這個市場的買家調整了很多信息，對吧？我們說，看，這是關於更有效地獲取客戶，然後增加您的生命週期價值，即您從這些客戶那裡獲得的收入。因此，這確實是一個有針對性的信息，基於我們的產品在這段時間內的相關性。我想你看到了我們公佈的一些結果，無論是摩根大通採用 Engage，Box 是 Segment 的長期客戶轉向 Engage，還是一家領先的電子商務公司，他們採用我們的順序以提高他們的廣告支出。我的意思是，這些都是來自我們客戶的非常好的例子，我們可以在我們準備好的評論中談論我們在市場上看到的確切情況。

Your next question comes from the line of Rishi Jaluria with RBC.

你的下一個問題來自 RBC 的 Rishi Jaluria 系列。

Wonderful. Two from my end. First, I want to continue talking about Segment. Maybe this is one for Elena. As we think about the core communications side kind of returning to its PLG roots, how should we be thinking about the kind of evolution of Segment go-to-market, especially considering the CDP market is a little bit more evangelical, it is a little bit more greenfield.

精彩的。我這邊的兩個。首先，我想繼續談談Segment。也許這是給埃琳娜的。當我們考慮核心通信方面回歸其 PLG 根源時，我們應該如何考慮細分市場的演變，特別是考慮到 CDP 市場有點福音派，它有點多一點綠地。

And maybe alongside that, as we think about potential larger vendors trying to get into this space in a big way, be it Salesforce with its own offering in T&E, or Adobe, what's kind of the plan to maintain Segment's market leadership as the larger software companies try to get into the space? And then I've got a follow-up.

也許除此之外，當我們考慮潛在的大型供應商試圖大舉進入這個領域時，無論是 Salesforce 在 T&E 中提供自己的產品，還是 Adobe，保持 Segment 作為大型軟件的市場領導地位的計劃是什麼公司試圖進入這個領域？然後我有一個後續行動。

Thanks, Rishi. This is a strategic sales motion, getting in, getting the product introduced, getting customers using it in proof of concept and things like that. And so we have really focused our attention on just building fantastic enterprise sales capability and blanketing the market with our message and getting in there and helping customers through sort of putting their dreams into action in the product as we show them our capabilities and turn them into paying, happy customers. And so while there's definitely more we can do in terms of demos and the sort of the developer message, this really is an enterprise sales motion and we're investing in that accordingly. And we think the price tag obviously accommodates that as well.

謝謝，里希。這是一個戰略性的銷售活動，參與進來，介紹產品，讓客戶在概念驗證中使用它等等。因此，我們真的把注意力集中在建立出色的企業銷售能力上，用我們的信息覆蓋市場，進入市場，幫助客戶在我們向他們展示我們的能力並將他們轉化為產品時，將他們的夢想付諸實踐。付錢，快樂的客戶。因此，雖然在演示和開發人員信息方面我們肯定可以做更多的事情，但這確實是一項企業銷售活動，我們正在相應地進行投資。我們認為價格標籤顯然也能適應這一點。

So that said, the connectivity across our -- the rest of our products is a real opportunity for lift. And so finding examples within our Communications business, where the data can be useful and where then we can turn around and, through the orchestration of Engage, push communications back out, I think everything ultimately becomes better together. And the developer, as discoverer of those communications channels, sort of opens that door for us on the communications side. And then I think we get to go back in from the Segment and Engage side as well.

也就是說，我們其他產品的連通性是一個真正的提昇機會。因此，在我們的通信業務中尋找示例，在這些示例中，數據可以發揮作用，然後我們可以扭轉局面，並通過 Engage 的編排，將通信推回原位，我認為最終一切都會變得更好。開發人員作為這些通信渠道的發現者，在通信方面為我們打開了那扇門。然後我認為我們也可以從細分和參與方面返回。

Second part of what you talked about was the big competition, and we're certainly aware of the moves of our big competitors. But we love our chances that we have the better product. We have 100% sort of focus on the very specific and bespoke things we do in the CDP space and in the customer engagement platform space. And we think we continue to stay ahead from a capabilities perspective, and just we'll continue to invest in the product to make sure that we stay ahead. The work for us is going to be to make sure that we're competing every single time one of those decisions is made, and we're orienting ourselves to do just that.

你談到的第二部分是大型競爭，我們當然知道我們的主要競爭對手的舉動。但我們很高興有機會擁有更好的產品。我們 100% 專注於我們在 CDP 領域和客戶參與平台領域所做的非常具體和定制的事情。我們認為，從能力的角度來看，我們將繼續保持領先地位，我們將繼續投資於產品，以確保我們保持領先地位。我們的工作將是確保每次做出這些決定時我們都在競爭，並且我們正在努力做到這一點。

Got it. That's really helpful. And then just a quick financial one for Khozema. Look, I appreciate the longer-term guidance and commitment to GAAP profitability. If I just kind of think about looking out, and it's hard to predict 2 quarters out, let alone 5 years out, but maybe let's try. So you talk about GAAP profitability in 2027 as well as bringing down your SBC to 10% to 12% of revenue. I mean that just implies that your non-GAAP operating margins though, in 2027, as you pivot more toward profitable growth and presumably reach a substantially larger scale, that your non-GAAP margins would be in that 10% to 12% range. And maybe just given all of the kind of areas of focus, that seems like it's maybe a little bit low as a target to reach for. Can you maybe walk me through kind of the thought process here? And maybe where I may be wrong in my thinking on the long-term framework?

知道了。這真的很有幫助。然後是 Khozema 的快速財務報告。看，我很欣賞長期指導和對 GAAP 盈利能力的承諾。如果我只是考慮往外看，很難預測 2 個季度後，更不用說 5 年了，但也許讓我們試試吧。所以你談到了 2027 年的 GAAP 盈利能力，以及將你的 SBC 降低到收入的 10% 到 12%。我的意思是，這只是意味著你的非 GAAP 營業利潤率在 2027 年隨著你更多地轉向盈利增長並可能達到更大的規模，你的非 GAAP 利潤率將在 10% 到 12% 的範圍內。也許只是考慮到所有的重點領域，作為一個目標，這似乎有點低。你能不能帶我經歷一下這裡的思考過程？也許我對長期框架的思考哪裡錯了？

Rishi, thanks for the question. So I think just one edit to what you said, and I don't know if you misspoke or not, but I think what you said towards the end was that our long-term framework was 10% to 12% op margins, and that's actually not the case. So the way that, I guess, we're thinking about it is that there's the $250 million to $350 million in the current year. You can kind of run the math on what the implied might be based on our Q1 guide. Obviously, we're not guiding quarter-to-quarter right now -- or we are guiding quarter to quarter, we're not guiding for the year just given how dynamic it is. Post that, we see 300 to 400 bps per year. And I guess the way that we think about it is, is that if you stretch it out over those -- that 5-year period is that, number one, we get to something that probably looks like if we can execute well and at the upper end, 20% plus, one; two, that if we can get to the 10% to 12% that I talked about that we disclosed in the remarks on the SBC side, which we feel pretty good about, just given some of the changes that we've made in terms of compensation and moving more from stock-based to cash-based. And then three, I think that the net of those 2, obviously, yields some GAAP profitability overall as well.

Rishi，謝謝你的提問。所以我認為只是對你所說的進行了一次編輯，我不知道你是否說錯了，但我認為你最後所說的是我們的長期框架是 10% 到 12% 的營業利潤率，那是其實不是這樣的。所以，我想，我們正在考慮的方式是今年有 2.5 億至 3.5 億美元。您可以根據我們的 Q1 指南對隱含的內容進行數學運算。顯然，我們現在不是按季度進行指導——或者我們是按季度進行指導，考慮到它的動態程度，我們不會對今年進行指導。在那之後，我們每年看到 300 到 400 個基點。而且我想我們考慮的方式是，如果你把它延伸到那些 - 那 5 年的時間就是，第一，如果我們能夠很好地執行並且在上限，20%加一；第二，如果我們能夠達到我所說的 10% 到 12%，我們在 SBC 方面的評論中披露了這一點，我們對此感覺非常好，只是考慮到我們在以下方面所做的一些改變薪酬，並更多地從以股票為基礎轉向以現金為基礎。然後是三個，我認為這兩個淨值顯然也產生了一些 GAAP 總體盈利能力。

So that's kind of the math that we're doing. I mean could it be better? Perhaps. But that's certainly not something 5 years out that I would want to commit to. We feel good about the setup. Certainly in the current year, we -- if we execute, we can be on the higher end of that. If revenue is tough, we'll be at the lower end, but all the same, we'll be very profitable in 2023. And then over multiple years out, we see really strong op margin accretion, which we think is a good signal. And then being GAAP profitable is really the name of the game, obviously. And our ability to control SBC is going to be the principal lever, and we know how to do that.

這就是我們正在做的數學運算。我的意思是它會更好嗎？也許。但這肯定不是我想要承諾的 5 年後的事情。我們對設置感覺良好。當然，在今年，我們 - 如果我們執行，我們可以處於更高端。如果收入艱難，我們將處於低端，但同樣，我們將在 2023 年實現非常有利可圖。然後在多年之後，我們看到非常強勁的運營利潤率增長，我們認為這是一個很好的信號.顯然，然後按照 GAAP 原則盈利才是真正的遊戲名稱。我們控制 SBC 的能力將成為主要槓桿，我們知道如何做到這一點。

Your next question comes from the line of Will Power with Baird.

你的下一個問題來自 Will Power with Baird。

Okay. Great. A couple of questions. Let me start, I guess, on the Communications segment. I'm just trying to think through go-to-market and potential impacts to growth there. I think you suggested earlier you didn't expect limited growth, but a little bit of an impact. I'm just trying to understand, just given the magnitude of the changes taking place there, how you get comfort that there's not a more meaningful impact to revenue growth? And any framework you could maybe provide around what you expect for growth in that Communications segment, whether this year or next couple of years?

好的。偉大的。幾個問題。我想，讓我從通信部分開始。我只是想通過上市和對那裡增長的潛在影響來思考。我認為您之前曾表示您預計增長不會有限，但會產生一點影響。我只是想了解，考慮到那裡發生的變化的幅度，你如何感到安慰，因為收入增長沒有更有意義的影響？您可以圍繞您對通信領域增長的預期提供任何框架，無論是今年還是未來幾年？

I'll take that. In my -- in the capacity of my prior role, just covering go-to-market, writ large, it's Elena here, and then Khozema can jump in if you've got anything else to add. So I understand the point. We obviously did a substantive cost cut here. And I think the important -- there's a couple of important things to think about and that we've sort of started to talk about over the last couple of quarters. It was really important to us to begin to demand more of our products, more of our tooling and more of our process as we think about the right go-to-market model for Communications. And so we believe there's a lot of efficiency to be gained there. We're making progress against all 3 of those dimensions now and plan to even make more improvement in how we create efficiency across the team going forward by increasing our capabilities in product-led growth and in self-service.

我會接受的。在我 - 以我之前的角色的能力，只是涵蓋上市，重要的是，這裡是 Elena，然後 Khozema 可以加入，如果你有任何其他要補充的內容。所以我明白這一點。我們顯然在這裡進行了實質性的成本削減。我認為重要的是——有幾件重要的事情需要考慮，我們在過去幾個季度開始討論這些事情。在我們考慮正確的 Communications 上市模型時，開始對我們的產品、工具和流程提出更多要求對我們來說非常重要。因此，我們相信那裡可以獲得很多效率。我們現在在這三個方面都取得了進展，併計劃通過提高我們在產品主導的增長和自助服務方面的能力，進一步改進我們如何提高整個團隊的效率。

I think when you actually really sort of peel the layers back in how we were servicing our customers historically, we had a number of people involved in any kind of -- in any sort of customer experience. And we believe we were a bit over levered there. And that when you kind of get underneath where our efficiency was great and where it wasn't, we think we can provide those fantastic customer experiences and really benefit from our customers' usage of Twilio without having people involved at every stage of the process, and really reserving that human capital for the times when our customers really and truly need us. And that's when they're making a decision, when they're deciding whether they turn left or right with their use cases and when they're struggling with something, with solving a problem. And so that's really where we want to apply that human capacity and capability. And we're not going to let go of that. We will still be there for our customers when they need us.

我認為，當您真正真正地剝離我們過去如何為客戶提供服務的層次時，我們有很多人參與了任何類型的 - 任何類型的客戶體驗。我們相信我們在那裡有點過度槓桿化。而且，當您深入了解我們效率高低的地方時，我們認為我們可以提供那些出色的客戶體驗，並真正從客戶對 Twilio 的使用中受益，而無需讓人員參與流程的每個階段，並真正為客戶真正需要我們的時候保留人力資本。那就是他們做出決定的時候，當他們決定是向左轉還是向右轉時使用他們的用例，當他們在為某件事而苦苦掙扎時，在解決問題時。因此，這才是我們真正想要應用人力和能力的地方。我們不會放棄這一點。當客戶需要我們時，我們仍然會在他們身邊。

But as it relates to sort of new customer acquisition, that's also more human-capital intensive at times. When it's big customers making -- running big loads on Twilio, we'll be there for those customers as well. But there was a lot of space where we had begun to see that our efficiency was degrading as we added large numbers of talented individuals over the last number of years. So we just don't feel like that's necessary for us to continue the growth trajectory given our penetration in the space, given how our tooling and products are coming along and given what we believe that we could do with the human capital we have around keeping our customers satisfied.

但由於它涉及到某種新客戶的獲取，這有時也需要更多的人力資本。當大客戶在 Twilio 上運行大負載時，我們也會為這些客戶服務。但是在過去的幾年裡，隨著我們增加了大量有才華的人，我們開始看到我們的效率正在下降的很多空間。因此，考慮到我們在該領域的滲透，考慮到我們的工具和產品的發展情況，以及我們相信我們可以利用我們所擁有的人力資本做些什麼，我們認為沒有必要繼續保持增長軌跡我們的客戶滿意。

Okay. And then maybe, Elena, just to follow up with you, I mean I guess shifting over to your new primary focus -- congratulations on that, by the way -- and thinking about applications and software. Can you maybe just remind us, as you think about Flex and Segment, what are the synergies there might be on go-to-market? I know you've got some specialized folks you're hiring probably for each of those [segments]. But just trying to think through the synergies and differences and kind of how you balance that with those 2 different products?

好的。然後，埃琳娜，也許只是為了跟進你，我的意思是我想轉移到你的新的主要關注點——順便祝賀你——並考慮應用程序和軟件。您能否提醒我們，當您考慮 Flex 和 Segment 時，在進入市場時可能會有哪些協同作用？我知道你有一些專業人士，你可能正在為每個 [segments] 招聘。但是只是想通過協同作用和差異來思考你如何平衡這兩種不同的產品？

Yes, for sure. We really see sort of the best uses of Flex being where a customer is running a digital contact center where engagement is key. We've got some great use cases of customers using Flex where they're actually in selling environments, not just service or support environments. And so we believe there's a really interesting synergy and tie with Segment, where the data will actually create incremental efficacy in those interactions that are happening in Flex, and we're beginning to lay that track now. We expect to see some of that capability here actually in 2023. But I want us to lay that track first before we begin to think about this as sort of one product or one set of use cases. They are pretty different today. And so we're going to keep those sales organizations really specifically focused on those unique customers, those unique buying patterns, what those customers need from us. But we will be working on adding some of the benefits of Segment into Flex, and we expect to see some of that this year.

是肯定的。我們確實看到 Flex 的最佳用途是客戶運行數字聯絡中心，其中參與是關鍵。我們有一些很棒的客戶使用 Flex 的用例，他們實際上是在銷售環境中，而不僅僅是服務或支持環境。因此，我們相信與 Segment 之間存在非常有趣的協同作用和聯繫，其中數據實際上將在 Flex 中發生的那些交互中產生增量效果，我們現在開始鋪設這條軌道。我們預計實際上會在 2023 年在這裡看到一些這種能力。但我希望我們在開始將其視為一種產品或一組用例之前先鋪設這條軌道。今天他們很不一樣。因此，我們將使這些銷售組織真正專注於那些獨特的客戶、那些獨特的購買模式以及這些客戶對我們的需求。但我們將努力將 Segment 的一些好處添加到 Flex 中，我們預計今年會看到其中的一些好處。

Your next question comes from the line of Pat Walravens with JMP.

您的下一個問題來自 Pat Walravens 與 JMP 的合作。

Great. And congratulations on all the progress. Jeff, this is a very big picture. But Twilio has this unusual situation where you have a dual class of stock that collapses to a single class 7 years after the IPO, so in June. And as the founder, I would just love to hear your thoughts and sort of the history on why you guys originally structured it that way. And now that we've hit the milestone, how do you feel about the decision and how things might be going forward?

偉大的。並祝賀所有的進步。傑夫，這是一個非常大的圖景。但 Twilio 有這種不尋常的情況，你有雙重類別的股票，在 IPO 7 年後，也就是在 6 月份崩潰為單一類別。作為創始人，我很想听聽你們的想法，以及你們為什麼最初以這種方式構建它的歷史。現在我們已經達到了里程碑，您對這個決定有何看法以及事情可能會如何發展？

Yes. Thanks, Pat. I mean look, all along, we've run this business as owners and for the benefit of all of our shareholders. And we're focused on driving attractive growth, lowering OpEx, increasing profitability. And we've extensively engaged with our shareholders over the last several months and over the whole time we've been public to help inform the actions that we take as management in terms of balancing growth, balancing our customers' needs, our employees' needs, our shareholders' needs. And our goal is to create value for our shareholders, and we believe the strategy that we're executing is going to do that.

是的。謝謝，帕特。我的意思是，一直以來，我們都以所有者的身份經營這項業務，並為了我們所有股東的利益。我們專注於推動有吸引力的增長，降低運營支出，提高盈利能力。在過去的幾個月裡，我們與股東進行了廣泛的接觸，在整個過程中，我們一直在公開信息，以幫助告知我們作為管理層在平衡增長、平衡客戶需求和員工需求方面採取的行動，我們股東的需求。我們的目標是為我們的股東創造價值，我們相信我們正在執行的戰略將會做到這一點。

And when I think about it from the perspective of a newly public company, when we put this in place just prior to our IPO, I think the idea is for a young company to get its feet as a public company. And that's why we thought of it with an expiration that was 7 years in the future. Now at the time, that felt like a long ways off. And here we are. And so I think that it did its job to get us on our footing as a public company.

當我從一家新上市公司的角度考慮時，當我們在首次公開募股之前將其落實到位時，我認為這個想法是為了讓一家年輕的公司站穩腳跟成為一家上市公司。這就是為什麼我們認為它會在未來 7 年到期。當時，這感覺很遙遠。我們到了。所以我認為它盡了自己的作用讓我們作為一家上市公司站穩了腳跟。

During that whole time, we're able to listen to our shareholders. We're able to make decisions as a young public company. And now, having the benefit of 7 years in the public market, that will come off. And the scheduled expiration of our dual class really doesn't change any of that -- any of those ways in which we've run the company. And so that's how I think about it as a founder, as a CEO and as a fiduciary of the company.

在那段時間裡，我們能夠傾聽股東的意見。作為一家年輕的上市公司，我們能夠做出決策。而現在，憑藉在公開市場上 7 年的優勢，這種情況將會發生。而且我們的雙重課程的預定到期確實不會改變任何這些 - 我們經營公司的任何方式。這就是我作為創始人、首席執行官和公司受託人的看法。

This concludes our Q&A for this portion of today. I turn the call back to the speakers for any closing remarks.

今天這部分的問答到此結束。我將電話轉回發言人以聽取任何結束語。

Thank you all for joining us today, and we will speak again soon.

感謝大家今天加入我們，我們很快就會再次發言。

Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.

感謝您的出席。您現在可以斷開連接。