Tuya Inc (TUYA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. And welcome to Tuya Inc.'s fourth-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

女士們、先生們，早安、晚上好。感謝您的支持。歡迎參加塗鴉智能 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。

I will now turn the call over to your first speaker today, Mr. Reg Chai, Investor Relations Director of Tuya. Please go ahead, Reg.

現在我將電話轉給今天的第一位發言者，塗鴉智慧投資者關係總監 Reg Chai 先生。請繼續，Reg。

Thank you. Hello everyone. Welcome to our fourth-quarter 2024 earnings call. Joining us today, our Founder and CEO of Tuya, Mr. Jerry Wang; and our Co-Founder and CFO, Mr. Alex Yang. The fourth quarter 2024 financial results and webcast of this conference call are available at ir.tuya.com. A replay of this call will also be available on our IR website in a few hours.

謝謝。大家好。歡迎參加我們的 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。今天與我們一起出席的還有塗鴉智慧的創始人兼執行長王傑瑞先生；以及我們的共同創辦人兼財務長 Alex Yang 先生。2024年第四季財務業績及本次電話會議網路直播可於ir.tuya.com查閱。這次通話的重播也將在幾個小時後在我們的 IR 網站上提供。

Before we continue, I refer you to our safe harbor statement in our earnings announcement, which applies to this call as we will make forward-looking statements.

在我們繼續之前，請參閱我們收益公告中的安全港聲明，該聲明適用於本次電話會議，因為我們將做出前瞻性陳述。

With that, I will now turn the call to our Founder and CEO, Mr. Jerry Wang. Jerry will deliver his remarks in Chinese, which will be followed by corresponding English translation. So Jerry, please.

現在，我將把電話轉給我們的創辦人兼執行長 Jerry Wang 先生。傑瑞將以中文發表講話，隨後將提供相應的英文翻譯。那麼，請傑瑞發言。

(interpreted) Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining Tuya's fourth-quarter 2024 and full year 2024 earnings call. In 2024, we achieved nearly 30% year-over-year revenue growth and reached two significant financial milestones.

（譯）大家好。感謝您參加塗鴉智慧 2024 年第四季和 2024 年全年財報電話會議。2024年，我們實現了近30%的年收入成長，並達到了兩個重要的財務里程碑。

First, our inaugural quarterly and annual non-GAAP operating profitability; and second, our first ever annual GAAP net profit. The former validates Tuya's unique business model, while the latter provides us with greater flexibility at the Stage 3 shareholders' equity level, enabling us to take further strategic actions. These achievements strengthen our confidence in the company's future growth.

首先，我們首次實現季度和年度非公認會計準則營業利潤；其次，這是我們首次實現年度 GAAP 淨利潤。前者驗證了塗鴉獨特的商業模式，後者為我們在第三階段股東權益層面提供了更大的靈活性，使我們能夠採取進一步的策略行動。這些成績的取得，更加堅定了我們對公司未來發展的信心。

2024 was the year of unwavering commitment to AI research and development. In the second quarter of 2024, we launched Tuya's proprietary AI large model, spatial large language model, while continuing to advance on-device AI. Our goal is to leverage GenAI to significantly enhance smart product experience, providing our customers with superior product competitiveness and end users with more valuable smart features and functionalities. We firmly believe that AI, IoT, and cloud technologies will drive a new era of user experience and substantially increase the penetration of smart devices.

2024年是堅定不移致力於人工智慧研發的一年。2024年第二季度，我們推出了塗鴉自主研發的AI大模型、空間大語言模型，同時繼續推進設備端AI。我們的目標是利用 GenAI 大幅提升智慧產品體驗，為客戶提供卓越的產品競爭力，為最終用戶提供更有價值的智慧特性和功能。我們堅信人工智慧、物聯網和雲端技術將驅動用戶體驗的新時代，並大幅提高智慧型裝置的普及率。

Over the past year, we have almost made significant strides in upgrading Tuya's unique software and hardware integrated business model, extending beyond PaaS into a hardware solution model. Whether in our core strength, smart home or in commercial verticals such as hospitality, real estate, mobility and renewable energy, we're dedicated to providing developers with increasingly competitive hardware solutions.

在過去的一年裡，我們在塗鴉獨特的軟硬體一體化商業模式升級上幾乎取得了重大進展，從PaaS模式延伸到硬體解決方案模式。無論是我們的核心優勢、智慧家居，或是飯店、房地產、行動和再生能源等商業垂直領域，我們都致力於為開發商提供越來越有競爭力的硬體解決方案。

This allows our customers to expand their competitiveness beyond powered by Tuya software capabilities into supply chain and hardware advantages. As a result, we have gained further customer recognition, driving an approximately 58% year-over-year growth in our Smart Solution revenue stream.

這使得我們的客戶能夠將其競爭力從塗鴉軟體功能擴展到供應鍊和硬體優勢。因此，我們獲得了進一步的客戶認可，推動我們的智慧解決方案收入流年增約 58%。

Looking ahead to 2025, we will be fully committed to building a global AIoT developer ecosystem. This includes ongoing iterations of our AI agent and the Tuya OS developer products as well as AIoT open source software solutions such as tuyaopen, to build long-term competitive advantages.

展望2025年，我們將全力打造全球AIoT開發者生態。這包括我們AI代理和塗鴉OS開發者產品的持續迭代以及tuyaopen等AIoT開源軟體解決方案，以建立長期競爭優勢。

Meanwhile, we remain committed to capitalizing on growth opportunities in international markets, accelerating the development of AIoT and AI applications worldwide and delivering long-term value to our shareholders.

同時，我們將持續致力於掌握國際市場的成長機會，加速全球AIoT和人工智慧應用的發展，為股東創造長期價值。

To allow more time for discussion and Q&A, our Co-Founder and CFO, Alex, will now provide more details on our business and financial performance.

為了有更多時間進行討論和問答，我們的聯合創始人兼財務長 Alex 現在將提供有關我們的業務和財務業績的更多詳細資訊。

Hello, everyone. I'm Alex. Today, I'd like to share an overview of our 2024 performance and our thoughts for the future.

大家好。我是亞歷克斯。今天，我想分享我們 2024 年表現的概述以及對未來的想法。

Before that, let me summarize our recent financial results. We wrapped up Q4 2024 on a strong note, delivering about $82 million in revenue, representing a solid 27.4% year-over-year growth. Given the higher base for the prior year, this growth demonstrates strong momentum.

在此之前，讓我總結一下我們最近的財務表現。我們以強勁的業績結束了 2024 年第四季度，實現了約 8,200 萬美元的收入，年增 27.4%。考慮到上一年的基數較高，這一增長顯示出強勁的勢頭。

Our Q4 PaaS revenue reached about USD59.3 million, up 25.7% year-over-year, driven by our strong foundational market position and value proposition, enabling rapid transmission of customer expansion and end market demand into revenue.

我們的第四季PaaS營收達到約5,930萬美元，年增25.7%，這得益於我們強大的基礎市場地位和價值主張，使客戶擴展和終端市場需求能夠快速轉化為收入。

SaaS and others revenue was about $11.5 million, up 21.1% year-over-year, benefiting from the stable growth of SaaS value-added services across our extensive devices space. Smart solutions revenue reached about $11.3 million, growth by 45.5% year-over-year, supported by robust demand across categories such as gateways, central controls and energy efficiency solutions.

SaaS 和其他收入約為 1,150 萬美元，年增 21.1%，受益於我們廣泛設備領域的 SaaS 增值服務的穩定成長。智慧解決方案營收達到約 1,130 萬美元，年增 45.5%，這得益於網關、中央控制和能源效率解決方案等類別的強勁需求。

So for the entire year, our total revenue reached about $298.6 million, making nearly 30% year-over-year growth. Our overall gross margin remained stable at around 47%, while annual operation expenses declined by approximately 10% year-over-year due to the continuing cost discipline of the company.

所以全年我們的總收入達到了約 2.986 億美元，年增近 30%。我們的整體毛利率維持穩定在47%左右，而由於公司持續的成本控制，年度營運費用較去年同期下降了約10%。

So as a result, revenue and gross profit growth efficiency translated into operating profit, leading to a 7.4% non-GAAP operating margin and a 25.2% non-GAAP net profit margin with GAAP profitability achieved for the first time as well.

因此，收入和毛利成長效率轉化為營業利潤，導致非 GAAP 營業利潤率達到 7.4%，非 GAAP 淨利潤率達到 25.2%，並首次實現了 GAAP 盈利。

On the cash flow side, we generated around $80.4 million in positive operating cash flow for the 2024. Following the dividend declared in August and paid in October, we ended Q4 with a net cash balance of over $1 billion, maintaining a strong liquidity position.

在現金流方面，我們在 2024 年產生了約 8,040 萬美元的正經營現金流。繼 8 月宣布並於 10 月支付股息後，我們在第四季度結束時的淨現金餘額超過 10 億美元，保持了強勁的流動性狀況。

Throughout 2024, we observed sustained growth in end market demand, stable customer relationships and the increased investment in a smart product line and the rapid education and adoption of GenAI and LLMs. So this drives a positive response from the consumer electronics industries towards intelligence trend.

在整個 2024 年，我們觀察到終端市場需求持續成長、客戶關係穩定、智慧產品線投資增加以及 GenAI 和 LLM 的快速教育和採用。這也帶動了消費性電子產業對智慧化趨勢的正面回應。

For Tuya, our unwavering commitment to the developer platform model, combined with our unique software and hardware integrated approach and customer-centric product expansion strategy. So that has amplified those industry tailwinds, helping both of us and our customers achieve solid business results. In 2024, the number of IoT PaaS premium customers grew by 11% to 298.

對於塗鴉智慧而言，我們堅定不移地致力於開發者平台模式，並結合我們獨特的軟硬體整合方法和以客戶為中心的產品擴展策略。這增強了業界的順風優勢，幫助我們和我們的客戶取得了穩固的業務成果。2024年，物聯網PaaS高階客戶數將成長11%，達到298個。

Our revenue dollar expansion rate, so DBNER exceeded 122% at the end of the Q4, marking five consecutive quarters above 100% and three consecutive quarters above 120%. Our products and services offering provide customers with an all-necessary technology and software to efficiently create competitive smart devices and bring them to market. So the DBNER metrics reflects our continued ability to enhance our customers' competitiveness through Tuya's technology leadership.

我們的營收美元擴張率，DBNER 在第四季末超過了 122%，連續五個季度超過 100%，連續三個季度超過 120%。我們的產品和服務為客戶提供所有必要的技術和軟體，以有效地創造具有競爭力的智慧型設備並將其推向市場。因此，DBNER 指標反映了我們透過塗鴉的技術領先地位持續增強客戶競爭力的能力。

As a B2B company, our top 10% revenue contributing customers maintained retention rate at about 97%, underscoring a strong stickiness of our neutral open and scalable technology platform. So our strategy strategically focused on key accounts has driven efficiency improvements too evidenced by about 37% and 40% year-over-year increase in average revenue per customers and average gross profit per customers, along with about 47% increase in company-wide revenue per employee.

作為一家B2B公司，我們收入貢獻排名前10%的客戶保持了97%左右的留存率，凸顯了我們中立、開放、可擴展的技術平台的強大黏性。因此，我們以重點客戶為策略重點的策略也推動了效率的提高，其證據是每位客戶的平均收入和每位客戶的平均毛利分別同比增長約 37% 和 40%，同時全公司每位員工的收入增長約 47%。

So at the same time, the scalability of Tuya ecosystem and our strong market positions has freed us from rigid marketing and sales expenses, allowing us to dynamically allocate resources, strategically promote new products capabilities, feature set and precisely target key markets and expand our influence as well. Consequently, our sales and marketing efficiency improved by about 40% year-over-year.

因此，同時，塗鴉生態系統的可擴展性和我們強大的市場地位使我們擺脫了僵化的營銷和銷售費用，使我們能夠動態分配資源，策略性地推廣新產品功能和功能集，精準瞄準關鍵市場並擴大我們的影響力。因此，我們的銷售和行銷效率比去年同期提高了約40％。

In the PaaS business, 2024 witnessed a more diverse and dynamic developer base, so contributing to solid year-over-year growth across all categories. Our product categories structures has become increasingly balanced and diversified, aligning well with the trend of customer expansion in the product lines.

在 PaaS 業務中，2024 年將見證更加多樣化和充滿活力的開發人員群體，從而推動所有類別實現穩健的同比增長。我們的產品品類結構日益均衡且多樣化，很好地契合了客戶產品線擴展的趨勢。

In a highly fragmented and dispersed global consumer electronic market, those widespread adoption of technology continues to drive innovations across diverse product categories. This increasing variety of smart devices is fostering a more comprehensive approach to spatial intelligence, enhancing user convenience and comfort, ultimately progressing towards the vision of interconnected and interoperable intelligence ecosystem.

在高度分散的全球消費性電子市場中，技術的廣泛採用繼續推動不同產品類別的創新。智慧型裝置的種類日益增多，正在促進更全面的空間智慧方法，提高使用者的便利性和舒適度，最終朝著互聯互通的智慧生態系統的願景邁進。

We're also pleased to see that our smart solution business model efficiently aligned with the need of top-tier customers, achieving about 58% year-over-year growth in 2024. For instance, in response to the French government's energy subsidy policy were ceased and help our French customers in becoming among the first to meet the country's energy efficiency subsidy standard. So this incentive programs is set to helping millions of French households to achieve green energy saving.

我們也很高興地看到，我們的智慧解決方案業務模式有效地滿足了頂級客戶的需求，到2024年實現了約58％的同比增長。例如響應法國政府的能源補貼政策，幫助我們的法國客戶成為首批達到該國能源效率補貼標準的客戶。這項激勵計畫旨在幫助數百萬法國家庭實現綠色能源節約。

At this stage of smart technology development, whether in consumer electronics or in industry-specific applications, a rich ecosystem of smart devices is essential for top-tier customers. In this regard, Tuya possessed a significant advantage over other players throughout its expensive developer ecosystem as smart solutions further enhanced our ability to support customers, strengthen engagement and boost the market competitiveness.

在智慧技術發展的現階段，無論是消費性電子領域，或是產業應用領域，豐富的智慧設備生態系統對於第一線客戶來說都至關重要。在這方面，塗鴉在其昂貴的開發者生態系統中比其他參與者擁有顯著優勢，因為智慧解決方案進一步增強了我們支持客戶、加強參與度和提升市場競爭力的能力。

And at the same time, we remain committed to building a robust developer ecosystem. At the end of 2024, the number of registered developers on our platform reached around 1.32 million with over 1.07 million SKUs of smart devices developed onto our platform, spanning more than 3,000 product categories.

同時，我們仍然致力於建立強大的開發者生態系統。截至2024年底，我們平台註冊開發者數達132萬左右，平台上開發的智慧型裝置SKU超過107萬個，涵蓋3,000多個產品類別。

We continue to foster an extensive ecosystem buying, for example, integrating with Google Home APIs to create seamless smart home experience. And collaborating with Chery to establish a new (inaudible) Ryco Home interoperability ecosystem.

我們繼續培育廣泛的生態系統購買，例如，與 Google Home API 整合以創造無縫的智慧家庭體驗。並與奇瑞合作建立新的（聽不清楚）Ryco Home 互通性生態系統。

At the same time, we are dedicated to expanding to a global influence, positioning ourselves as a reliable partner for the customers and developers worldwide. Our HEMS, the home energy management system solutions has recognized in the United Nations Global Compact Report 20 Best Corporate sustainability practices in 20 years, highlighting Tuya's commitment to sustainability. Additionally, we achieved MSCI ESG rating of A and Win ESG rating of A2 and we were included in the S&P Sustainability Yearbook China Edition and so on.

同時，我們致力於擴大全球影響力，將自己定位為全球客戶和開發者值得信賴的合作夥伴。我們的家庭能源管理系統解決方案 HEMS 在聯合國全球契約報告「20 年 20 佳企業永續發展實踐」中得到認可，彰顯了塗鴉對永續發展的承諾。此外，我們獲得了MSCI ESG評級A級、Win ESG評級A2級，並納入標普永續發展年鑑中國版等。

So next, I'd like to discuss Tuya's opportunity in device and Edge AI. As a technology-driven company, Tuya fully embraced the GenAI and LLMs in early 2023. In Q4 of 2024, we launched the Tuya AI agent development platform, including all major large language models, including ChatGPT, Qwen, DeepSeek, Doubao, Le Chat of Mistral, Gemini, Amazon Nova and Cloud, et cetera.

接下來我想討論一下塗鴉在設備和邊緣AI方面的機會。作為一家技術驅動型公司，塗鴉智慧於 2023 年初全面擁抱 GenAI 和 LLM。2024年第四季度，我們推出了塗鴉AI智能體開發平台，包含所有主流的大語言模型，包括ChatGPT、Qwen、DeepSeek、Doubao、Mistral的Le Chat、Gemini、Amazon Nova和Cloud等等。

So Tuya's LLM agnostic approach eliminates the complexity of developing smart devices and applications from the ground up, providing developers with a crucial middleware layer that bridges LLM's capabilities with real-world applications.

因此，塗鴉的 LLM 不可知方法消除了從頭開始開發智慧型裝置和應用程式的複雜性，為開發人員提供了一個將 LLM 的功能與實際應用程式連接起來的關鍵中間件層。

Those developers, they can flexibly choose the most suitable AI models based on their business and marketing needs, while leveraging Tuya's template library or customer solutions, customized solutions to develop AI devices and applications.

對於開發者來說，他們可以根據自己的業務和市場需求，靈活選擇最合適的AI模型，同時利用塗鴉的模板庫或客戶解決方案、客製化解決方案來開發AI設備和應用程式。

This philosophy aligned with Tuya's cloud agnostic strategy, ensuring customers do not have to worry about compatibility and sustainability of cloud services, device types or hardware architectures. Those agnostic capability provide Tuya developers with unparalleled flexibility and adaptability, distinguishing us from single category solutions.

這一理念與塗鴉的雲端不可知策略一致，確保客戶不必擔心雲端服務、裝置類型或硬體架構的兼容性和永續性。這些不可知的能力為塗鴉開發人員提供了無與倫比的靈活性和適應性，使我們有別於單一類別的解決方案。

Moving forward, we'll continue to prioritize AI devices and spatial intelligence applications, focusing on areas such as audio-video interactions, efficiency optimization and decision-making automation. Audio-video AI enhanced user devices interaction by enabling advanced content input and output mechanisms, while efficiency and decision-making AI helping end users to optimize their smart devices and usage strategy to meet personalized and differentiated needs. We also continue to explore the application of Tuya's spatial LLMs in energy management and other spatial intelligence scenarios as too.

未來我們將持續重點佈局AI設備與空間智慧應用，聚焦音視訊互動、效率優化、決策自動化等領域。音視頻AI透過實現先進的內容輸入和輸出機制，增強了用戶設備互動；效率和決策AI則幫助終端用戶優化智慧設備和使用策略，滿足個人化、差異化的需求。我們也將繼續探索塗鴉空間法學碩士在能源管理以及其他空間智慧場景的應用。

2025 will marks as the breakthrough year of device and Edge AI. We plan to integrate AI capability across all categories within the Tuya developer platform, ensuring that every powered by Tuya devices is AI enabled by default in the future. Together with a global developer partner, we will explore various innovations and scalable applications for AI device, continuously shaping a variable global AI IoT developer ecosystem.

2025年將成為設備和邊緣AI的突破之年。我們計畫在塗鴉開發者平台內整合所有品類的AI能力，確保未來所有搭載塗鴉的裝置都預設開啟AI功能。我們將攜手全球開發者合作夥伴，探索AI設備的各種創新和可擴展應用，並不斷塑造多變的全球AI物聯網開發者生態系統。

Looking ahead, intelligence will involve through the integration of software and hardware, construction differentiated scenarios throughout interoperable smart devices and meet the customized needs of individuals, households and spaces. The industry remains in penetration-driven phase with a vast and promising total addressable market.

展望未來，智慧化將透過軟硬體的融合，透過互聯互通的智慧型裝置建構差異化的場景，滿足個人、家庭、空間的客製化需求。該行業仍處於滲透驅動階段，整體潛在市場廣闊且前景光明。

To achieve sustained growth, we'll focus on the following key areas. The first, we continue to expand the global market penetration. We leverage a combination of PaaS, SaaS, and smart solutions to deepen our growth reach, particularly in Europe, Latin America and the Asia-Pacific region, while increasing customer use cases. For the large enterprise customers, we offer Cube, our smart private cloud solutions to help them to build secure and scalable enterprise-level smart platforms.

為了實現持續成長，我們將重點放在以下關鍵領域。第一，我們持續擴大全球市場滲透率。我們利用 PaaS、SaaS 和智慧解決方案的組合來深化我們的成長範圍，特別是在歐洲、拉丁美洲和亞太地區，同時增加客戶使用案例。針對大型企業客戶，我們提供Cube智慧私有雲解決方案，協助他們建構安全、可擴展的企業級智慧平台。

Second, advancing the AI device and applications, we are committed to leverage GenAI and LLMs to significantly enhance smart product experience, driving product competitiveness and delivering great values to the end users. We're continuing to innovating across high potential markets such as smart companionship, smart outdoor, smart energy and smart spaces, complementing and accelerating smart devices penetration by AI applications.

其次，推動人工智慧設備和應用，我們致力於利用GenAI和LLM顯著提升智慧產品體驗，提升產品競爭力，為最終用戶創造巨大價值。我們將繼續在智慧陪伴、智慧戶外、智慧能源和智慧空間等高潛力市場進行創新，透過人工智慧應用補充和加速智慧設備的滲透。

Third, throughout our integrated hardware and software smart solutions, we are helping top-tier customers to speed up their product launches and establish differentiated competitive advantages across different categories and regions, directly to increase end market penetration and delivering a greater and more sustained value.

第三，透過軟硬體整合的智慧解決方案，幫助第一線客戶加快產品落地速度，建立跨品類、跨區域的差異化競爭優勢，直接提升終端市場滲透率，創造更大、更持續的價值。

Fourth, maintaining a customer-centric approach. We aim to serve high-quality core customers efficiently, supporting their business growth, increasing customer stickiness and repeated purchases and ultimately enhancing our operational leverage and efficiency.

第四，堅持以客戶為中心。我們的目標是有效率地服務優質核心客戶，支援他們的業務成長，增加客戶黏著度和重複購買率，最終提升我們的營運槓桿和效率。

Last, to continue to build our global developer ecosystem. We continue to iterate and refine Tuya AI agent platform, empowering developers worldwide to create a customized AI devices and scenario-based applications easily. Additionally, we'll leverage GenAI tools to improve developer -- improve the development phases efficiency as well.

最後，繼續建立我們的全球開發者生態系統。我們持續迭代並完善塗鴉AI智能體平台，賦能全球開發者輕鬆打造客製化的AI設備和場景化應用。此外，我們還將利用 GenAI 工具來提高開發人員的效率—同時提高開發階段的效率。

So finally, let's address some frequently asked topics from the capital markets regarding to the internal operational efficiency, the share-based compensation expenses and dividends. Throughout 2024, our total headcount has remained at about 1,450 employees, reflecting about 12% reduction from 2023.

最後，讓我們討論一下資本市場中關於內部營運效率、股權激勵費用和股息的一些常見問題。2024 年全年，我們的員工總數仍維持在約 1,450 人，較 2023 年減少約 12%。

And by Q4 of 2024, our average revenue per employee has exceeded early 2022 levels by more than 3x. So over 70% of our team consistently consists of R&D, technology development and product person, so who drive rapidly product integration across Tuya's business line and prepare for the next generation of opportunities.

到 2024 年第四季度，我們的每位員工平均收入將比 2022 年初的水平高出 3 倍以上。因此，我們團隊的 70% 以上始終由研發、技術開發人員和產品人員組成，他們推動塗鴉業務線的快速產品集成，並為下一代機會做好準備。

Notably, Tuya's revenue growth is not dependent on heavy investment in sales and marketing, which has been key factors in a stable and continuous improving profitability. We are committed to further improving the operational leverage, while our net profit structures and quality will become even more sustainable and organic.

值得注意的是，塗鴉智慧的營收成長並不依賴對銷售和行銷的大量投資，而這正是其獲利能力穩定持續提升的關鍵因素。我們致力於進一步提高經營槓桿，同時我們的淨利潤結構和品質將更永續和有機。

Regarding share-based compensation expenses, the current quarterly accounting expenses primarily stem from the legacy granted and issued our ESOP in a higher evaluation years ago, which has become amortized in quarterly according to the vesting schedules. So those expenses are unrelated to any recent equity grants.

關於股權激勵費用，本季度會計費用主要源於幾年前以較高估值授予和發行的ESOP遺留費用，該費用已根據歸屬計劃按季度攤銷。因此這些費用與最近的股權授予無關。

As those legacy awards are gradually fully vested, SBC expenses will see a substantial decline starting in 2025, leading to a visible reduction in the accounting impact in our income statement, an improvement that's already evident in Q4 of 2024.

隨著這些遺留獎勵逐漸完全歸屬，SBC 的支出將從 2025 年開始大幅下降，導致我們損益表中的會計影響明顯減少，這項改善在 2024 年第四季已經顯現。

So earlier this day, ahead of this earnings call, our Board of Directors approved the second dividend for 2024, totaling about USD37 million. Given our robust non-GAAP margin, normally, non-GAAP metrics reflect the direct results of operational decision-making, excluding external facts unrelated to our business model. So those non-GAAP margin and strong financial positions is what we -- the base we offer for the dividend, with over $1 billion in net cash and seven consecutive quarters of positive operating cash flow from Q2 of 2023 till now.

因此，今天早些時候，在本次收益電話會議之前，我們的董事會批准了 2024 年第二次股息，總額約為 3,700 萬美元。鑑於我們強勁的非公認會計準則利潤率，通常非公認會計準則指標反映營運決策的直接結果，不包括與我們的業務模式無關的外部事實。因此，這些非 GAAP 利潤率和強勁的財務狀況就是我們提供的股息的基礎，從 2023 年第二季度至今，淨現金超過 10 億美元，並且連續七個季度實現正營運現金流。

We believe that Tuya is well positioned in sustain long-term growth throughout its competitiveness mode and while also rewarding our shareholders who have demonstrated steadfast support. We remain committed to driving forces in both our global business and capital markets.

我們相信塗鴉智慧有能力透過其競爭模式保持長期成長，同時回報我們堅定支持的股東。我們將繼續致力於推動全球業務和資本市場的發展。

Overall, 2024 has been a profitable year for Tuya, marking our first year of operational profitability, the execution of our AI strategy and a breakthrough in our shareholder structure.

整體而言，2024年對塗鴉智能來說是獲利的一年，標誌著我們營運獲利的第一年，也是我們AI策略落地的第一年，也是我們股東結構的突破之年。

During this strategic upgrade, we have been fortunate experiences multiple dimensions of progress and transformations, whether in achieving operational profitability, expanding our global footprint or optimizing our international shareholder base. Notably, our partner with 65EP, a subsidiary of Temasek as a strategic investors has positioned them as Tuya's largest institution shareholder.

在這次策略升級中，我們有幸經歷了多維度的進步與轉變，無論是在實現營運獲利、擴大全球影響力，或是優化國際股東基礎。值得一提的是，我們的合作夥伴淡馬錫旗下的65EP作為策略投資者，已將其定位為塗鴉最大的機構股東。

Furthermore, our achievement has been strongly recognized by the market in early 2025. I believe this success is rooted in Tuya global presence, its unique hardware and software integrated business model and its strategic focus on the global developer platform.

此外，我們的成就在2025年初得到了市場的強烈認可。我相信這項成功源自於塗鴉智慧的全球影響力、獨特的軟硬體整合業務模式以及對全球開發者平台的策略重點。

Thank you, everyone. Operator, we can now begin with the Q&A.

謝謝大家。接線員，我們現在可以開始問答環節。

(Operator Instructions) Timothy Zhao, Goldman Sachs.

（操作員指示）高盛的 Timothy Zhao。

Congrats on the very strong to end the year of '24. And I think your presentation is very helpful. I have two questions here. One is that I think on AI impact and in your smart solutions business, could management further elaborate on what kind of usage scenario that you are seeing?

恭喜你們以非常強勁的勢頭結束 24 年。我認為您的演講非常有幫助。我這裡有兩個問題。一是我認為就人工智慧的影響以及您的智慧解決方案業務而言，管理層能否進一步詳細說明您所看到的使用場景？

Yes. Thank you for the question. So for the AI, what we see here is that this will be a really good year for the AI and we'll consider as the first year that we can really turn the AI devices into reality. What we see the priority of the AI opportunities on the device side, so we'll start with all the audio and video interaction devices, which means that to bring a new way to have the people interact through the audio and video to the device.

是的。謝謝你的提問。因此，對於人工智慧而言，我們看到今年將是人工智慧真正好的一年，我們將把它視為真正將人工智慧設備變成現實的第一年。我們看到設備端人工智慧機會的優先性，所以我們將從所有的音訊和視訊互動設備開始，這意味著為人們提供一種透過音訊和視訊與設備進行互動的新方式。

So that will be one thing. So the matter is some use cases where we showed that in the last quarters, like the pet feeders, like the bird feeders and the pet-related appliances and some control panels on the board with the screen as well. So that will be one thing.

所以那將是一回事。所以問題是我們在上個季度展示的一些用例，例如寵物餵食器、餵鳥器和寵物相關的器具，以及帶有螢幕的電路板上的一些控制面板。所以那將是一回事。

And the second thing is that all those type of -- analytic type of devices that need a complex decision. So one significant use case is energy solution because for comprehensive energy solutions, you need to be able to read through dozens of variables from different type of devices and from the outside factors like the weather, like the utility data, et cetera and then make some adjustment and automatically or very dynamically making new decisions to operate the device in different way. So the AI definitely will help in that part. So that will be something.

第二件事是，所有這些類型的分析類型的設備都需要複雜的決策。因此，一個重要的用例是能源解決方案，因為對於綜合能源解決方案，您需要能夠讀取來自不同類型設備和外部因素（如天氣、公用事業數據等）的數十個變量，然後進行一些調整併自動或非常動態地做出新的決策以不同的方式操作設備。所以人工智慧肯定會在這方面提供幫助。所以那將會是件好事。

And also what we see is a very interesting new type of start will be the all type of toys that -- so we found that the kids will be the perfect adapter for AI because they don't have any stereotype about any existing technology. So they grab anything as a fashion, so they can -- they just easily tap in.

而且，我們也看到一個非常有趣的新型開始，那就是各種類型的玩具——所以我們發現孩子們將是人工智慧的完美適應者，因為他們對任何現有技術都沒有任何刻板印象。所以他們把任何東西都當作時尚來抓，這樣他們就可以——他們可以輕鬆地利用它。

And so since January, after the CES, we really got plenty of customers reach out to us bringing different ideas that how they can integrate AI into toys. So that will be some of the, what I say, incubating categories we start to catching up.

因此，自 1 月 CES 展會結束後，我們確實收到了許多客戶的聯繫，他們提出瞭如何將 AI 融入玩具的不同想法。所以這就是我所說的我們開始追趕的一些孵化類別。

But I believe there will be more booming stars throughout the entire year or even in the next couple of years. And while the AI starting from the very fundamental stuff like the LLM, someone can bring a easier approach to the market to activate all the new ideas.

但我相信全年甚至未來幾年還會有更多紅極一時的明星。雖然人工智慧從法學碩士 (LLM) 等非常基礎的東西開始，但有人可以將更簡單的方法推向市場，以激活所有新想法。

And so while the barrier become low and you have thousands of thousands of companies and the developer joining in, so that will become a robust market, what we're looking forward to do. So there might be thousands of different type of things coming after. That's it.

因此，當門檻降低，成千上萬的公司和開發商加入進來時，這將成為一個強勁的市場，這也是我們期待的。因此，之後可能會出現數千種不同類型的事情。就是這樣。

Timothy, do you have any follow-up questions?

蒂莫西，你還有其他問題嗎？

Sorry. Can you hear me well?

對不起。你聽得清楚我說話嗎？

Yes, we can. Please proceed.

是的，我們可以。請繼續。

Great. Sorry about that. Yes. My second question is regarding your margins. Just wondering, I think with the AI enhancing the demand for IoT, what is the unit price like trend over time and how that will impact your margin? I think it's more on the gross margin level.

偉大的。很抱歉。是的。我的第二個問題是關於您的利潤。只是想知道，我認為隨著人工智慧增強對物聯網的需求，單價隨時間的變化趨勢是怎樣的，以及這將如何影響您的利潤？我認為這更多的與毛利率水準有關。

And can you also talk about your OpEx given, I think, you have been investing on AI and operating efficiency on the OpEx level has been quite high. Just wondering how do you think about your operating leverage into 2025?

您能否談談您的營運支出？我認為，您一直在人工智慧方面進行投資，而且營運支出層面的營運效率一直很高。只是想知道您如何看待 2025 年的營運槓桿？

Yes. So the first one is that the AI will be still in a very early stage. So we're not making a final decision or we didn't make up the final call about how we're going to commercialize the AI. So we try different type of commercial use cases.

是的。第一個是人工智慧仍處於非常早期的階段。因此，我們還沒有做出最終決定，或者說我們還沒有就如何將人工智慧商業化做出最終決定。所以我們嘗試不同類型的商業用例。

In one word is that we're starting to deploy the AI into all 3 business models we have, including the PaaS, the SaaS and solutions. So we offer the AI in different ways based on what type of needs it is. So that would be one thing.

一句話，我們開始將人工智慧部署到我們所有的三種商業模式中，包括 PaaS、SaaS 和解決方案。因此，我們根據不同的需求類型以不同的方式提供人工智慧。所以這是一回事。

And so sometimes it will be a new offering that we provide to the market. So we will repricing that as a new product. So for that part, the margin will depend on, not only the cost, but also depends on the demand. It depends on what type of reasonable pricing we'd like to put into the market to scale it.

因此，有時這將是我們向市場提供的新產品。因此我們將把它重新定價為新產品。因此，對於這部分，利潤不僅取決於成本，還取決於需求。這取決於我們想以何種合理的價格投入市場來擴大規模。

And another part is that some of the AI, if we think that will be very, very -- we want to put that as a default features that by enhance our all customers to improve their competitiveness. So we'll integrate that into our existing PaaS solution too.

另一部分是，如果我們認為某些人工智慧將會非常重要——我們希望將其作為預設功能，以增強我們所有客戶的功能，從而提高他們的競爭力。因此我們也將其整合到我們現有的 PaaS 解決方案中。

So the margin impact, I think that in the short term, I don't have visibility for that because the scale may not be growing that significantly to influence our overall margin. So that will be a smaller pie at this moment.

因此，對於利潤率的影響，我認為在短期內我還無法預見，因為規模可能不會成長那麼顯著，進而影響我們的整體利潤率。因此，目前這個蛋糕將會變小。

And in the long run, I believe that AI will be more values, but we will not committed to when because for sure, that the focus for us -- I mean, the priority for us is always scalability. Yes, that will be one thing.

從長遠來看，我相信人工智慧將更有價值，但我們不會承諾何時實現，因為可以肯定的是，我們的重點——我的意思是，我們的首要任務始終是可擴展性。是的，那是一回事。

And second thing about the OpEx. So like I mentioned earlier, we're starting to invest in the AI once the GenAI occurs back to early of 2023. So it's not a new investment for us. Throughout the past 2 years, we already relocate our resources internally and by improve our talent structures in some roles to be capable of building AI already.

第二件事是關於營運支出 (OpEx)。因此，就像我之前提到的，一旦 GenAI 在 2023 年初出現，我們就會開始投資人工智慧。所以這對我們來說並不是一項新的投資。在過去的兩年裡，我們已經在內部重新分配資源，並透過改善某些職位的人才結構，已經具備了建構人工智慧的能力。

So right now, there are a lot, a lot of departments in my company, they are all AI-ready, now. So which means that I don't have to recruit a team to rebuild things all over again. It's already been there. And so for this year, we will slightly increase some of specific application investment by the demand of the market slightly.

所以現在，我公司有很多部門都已經做好了人工智慧的準備。這意味著我不需要招募一個團隊來重新建構一切。它已經存在了。所以今年我們會根據市場需求稍微增加一些特定的應用投資。

And also in the same time, we're looking forward to see what will be the right opportunity or right type of way that we can market in a better efficiency since that it comes with a new concept. So you better make some noise. But that type of impact, we'll see that it's very controllable. So I say that will not improve the OpEx significantly. It will be in a very management level.

同時，我們也期待看到什麼是正確的機會或正確的方式，以便我們能夠以更高的效率進行行銷，因為它帶來了一個新概念。所以你最好製造點聲音。但我們會發現這種影響是非常可控的。所以我認為這不會顯著改善營運支出。它將處於非常管理的水平。

John Roy, WTR.

約翰·羅伊，WTR。

Excellent year last year, very well done. So I was wondering about SaaS and its growth prospects. Do you see that as something that could really change the landscape? Or is that just more of an add-on?

去年是出色的一年，做得非常好。所以我對 SaaS 及其成長前景感到好奇。您認為這真的能改變現狀嗎？或者這只是一個附加功能？

Yes, that's a good question. Thank you for that. So the first one is that SaaS is based on our deployment of the -- I mean, on the base of the total deployment of our devices. So that will be later business models versus the first -- versus the PaaS, which means that we need to enlarge and scale the PaaS. And on top of that, we can grow more SaaS. That will be one thing.

是的，這是個好問題。謝謝你。第一個是 SaaS 基於我們的部署——我的意思是，基於我們設備的整體部署。因此，這將是後期的商業模式與早期的 PaaS 的對比，這意味著我們需要擴大和擴展 PaaS。除此之外，我們還可以發展更多的 SaaS。那將是一回事。

And second thing is that we are facing a structural improvement in the SaaS model, which means that we try to increase the portion of the recurring models in the SaaS type, not only the software base, but also the recurring software base. So that will be the second thing.

第二件事是我們正面臨SaaS模式的結構性改進，這意味著我們試圖增加SaaS類型中循環模型的比例，不僅是軟體基礎，還有循環軟體基礎。這將是第二件事。

And so for that part, so I'm not worried about the growth and more -- I'll put more -- pay more attention on the stickiness of the customers, whether they can use that type of thing. As long as they can use that, so the payment -- the continually annually payment will be a very strong base for us. That will be the second thing.

對於這部分，我並不擔心成長，而是更關注客戶的黏性，以及他們是否可以使用這類東西。只要他們能夠使用它，那麼付款——持續的年度付款對我們來說將是一個非常強大的基礎。那將是第二件事。

And the third thing is that within the PaaS, so there will be some -- one portion of that is for the commercial software. So it's not the consumer-facing one. So for the commercial one, in the past three years, the major market we're trying to do this business line is in Asia and China. So because that's within COVID period, so which means that it brings us difficulty to be able to incubate new business across the global basis.

第三件事是在 PaaS 中，其中一部分是用於商業軟體。所以它不是面向消費者的。因此，就商業而言，在過去三年中，我們嘗試開展該業務線的主要市場是亞洲和中國。因為那是在 COVID 期間，這意味著我們很難在全球範圍內孵化新業務。

And starting from late last year, we're starting to duplicate that use cases in different countries. We try to bring that into global market. We already have some really positive progress there, no matter in Latin America, Southeast Asia and Europe too. So for that part, right now, we are approaching to a bigger total addressable market on the regional basis.

從去年年底開始，我們開始在不同的國家複製這種用例。我們嘗試將其帶入全球市場。無論是在拉丁美洲、東南亞或歐洲，我們都已經取得了一些非常積極的進展。因此就這一部分而言，目前，我們正在區域基礎上接近更大的總目標市場。

And we're ready from the duplicable applications or products that are proving to work out and we already have a customer base that's applied with the recurring models.

我們已經準備好可複製的應用程式或產品，這些應用程式或產品已被證明是有效的，並且我們已經擁有應用重複模型的客戶群。

So for the SaaS, I believe that will be our long-term growing business line. We're not looking forward to any short-term surprising or short-term significant improvement. But for the long run, maybe after 5 years, that will be a very, very (inaudible) for us.

因此對於 SaaS，我相信這將是我們長期成長的業務線。我們並不期待任何短期的驚喜或短期的顯著改善。但從長遠來看，也許 5 年後，這對我們來說將是一個非常非常（聽不清楚）的事情。

Great. So obviously, the dividend is very nice and you have a pretty significant cash position. What is your view on the acquisition front? Is that something you're actively watching? How are the prices in that market?

偉大的。因此，顯然，股息非常可觀，而且您的現金狀況也相當可觀。您對收購方面有何看法？這是您正在積極關注的事情嗎？那個市場的價格怎麼樣？

I think that -- I'm thinking of -- you mentioned about MMM, right? MMA?

我認為——我在想——你提到過 MMM，對嗎？綜合格鬥？

Right. Yes.

正確的。是的。

Yes. So MMA is always an open option for us. And so we keep screening and what type of extension, what type of companies or partners can be our extension either to extend our scope of coverage of different type of scenarios, or to be a vertical solution, a more vertical solution provider for specific industries. So we keep screening on that. And yes, so I think that's an option for us.

是的。因此 MMA 對我們來說始終是一個開放的選擇。因此，我們不斷篩選什麼類型的擴展，什麼類型的公司或合作夥伴可以成為我們的擴展，以擴大我們對不同類型場景的覆蓋範圍，或者成為垂直解決方案，特定行業的更垂直的解決方案提供者。所以我們對此進行持續篩選。是的，所以我認為這對我們來說是一個選擇。

I think the key part is that the first one is that no matter with or without acquisition too and those guys should be our developers. So the first priority is to have a very strong global developer ecosystem.

我認為關鍵部分是，首先，無論是否被收購，這些人都應該是我們的開發人員。因此，首要任務是建立一個非常強大的全球開發者生態系統。

I think that will be our major focus. In the same time, anyone may be within the ecosystem that can show a better potential no matter, like I mentioned, that horizontally extend our scope or vertically that improve our vertical industry insights. So for that part, we can easily identify that. Yes. We'll keep it that open.

我認為這將是我們關注的重點。同時，生態系統中的任何人都可能展現出更好的潛力，無論像我提到的那樣，橫向擴展我們的範圍，還是縱向提高我們對垂直行業的洞察力。因此對於這一部分，我們可以輕鬆識別。是的。我們將保持開放。

And we'll keep for anyone to help us to find some interesting target too. If you have anyone, introduce to me.

我們也會繼續尋求任何人的幫助來找到一些有趣的目標。如果有的話，介紹給我吧。

Kai Xiao, CICC.

肖凱，中金公司。

(spoken in foreign language) Congratulations for the strong quarter. So my first question is regarding the IoT PaaS. So what's the current downstream demand for IoT PaaS and which countries and categories you think have more potential? And how can we outlook the gross margin?

（以外語說）祝賀本季業績強勁。我的第一個問題是關於 IoT PaaS 的。那麼目前物聯網PaaS的下游需求如何，您認為哪些國家和類別更有潛力？我們如何預測毛利率？

And the second question is regarding the high-quality customers. So we see the customer -- the number of customers have very strong growth. So what do you think the further potential for the company to further expand the high-quality PaaS customers in the future? And will GenAI help in the acquisition of more high-quality customers?

第二個問題是關於優質客戶。因此，我們看到客戶數量呈現非常強勁的成長。那麼您認為公司未來在進一步拓展優質PaaS客戶方面還有哪些潛力？GenAI 是否有助於獲得更多優質客戶？

Thank you for the question. So the first one for the PaaS, as we can find in our business, it's very strong showing that we have a very balanced structure on the business. So no matter it's on the regional side or on the category side. So right now the business comes from over 3,000 categories on the Tuya platform. So we didn't rely on any single category so which means that we're quite diversified in the category side.

謝謝你的提問。因此，正如我們在業務中發現的那樣，第一個 PaaS 非常有力地表明了我們的業務結構非常平衡。所以無論是在區域方面還是在類別方面。目前業務來自塗鴉平台上的 3000 多個類別。因此，我們不依賴任何單一類別，這意味著我們的類別方面相當多樣化。

So that's what I mean that whenever or whatever type of new booming starts in the smart devices market occurs, for sure that there are someone making that into your platform, into your ecosystem, not from someone else. So for sure, that will cover any new opportunities.

所以我的意思是，無論何時智慧型裝置市場出現任何類型的新繁榮，肯定有人會將其融入你的平台、你的生態系統，而不是別人。因此可以肯定的是，這將涵蓋任何新的機會。

And on the regional side, right now we're very balanced too. So the largest regional market, Europe, only covers slightly over a third of 35 of our business and on the end user demand. And for all other countries, North America, Latin America, Asia, and Australia, including China domestic, so they are quite balanced.

從區域方面來看，目前我們的狀況也非常平衡。因此，最大的區域市場歐洲僅占我們業務的三分之一多一點，並且僅滿足最終用戶的需求。對於所有其他國家，包括北美、拉丁美洲、亞洲和澳大利亞，包括中國國內，它們都是相當平衡的。

So we didn't rely on any single region market too. And which bring us a very good barrier or very good protections for any type of change happening on the right now the geographic scenarios. So that would be one thing for the PaaS.

所以我們也不依賴任何單一區域市場。這為我們提供了非常好的屏障或保護，以應對當前地理場景中發生的任何類型的變化。所以這對 PaaS 來說是一回事。

And for the second question, for the second question, I think the major customer here is that right now, for the first 10 years of the establishment of this company and there are a larger portion of the ecosystem come from the consumer field. So what we found here is that two extensions on the customer side. The first one is that for the past three years, we have more and more customers and use cases come from non-consumer fields.

對於第二個問題，我認為這裡的主要客戶是目前，在這家公司成立的頭十年裡，生態系統的很大一部分來自消費者領域。所以我們在這裡發現客戶端有兩個擴充。第一個是過去三年來，我們有越來越多的客戶和用例來自非消費領域。

No matter it's commercial one, industrial one and that type of things. And also in the company, we have new business lines, just focus on that part. So that will be one thing. That will be two to extension and some new type of customers from that part and including the telecom carriers. So we got -- we continue to have new telecom carrier partners coming in. Yes, so that would be one thing.

不管是商業的、工業的還是諸如此類的東西。而且在公司裡，我們有新的業務線，只需要關注這一部分。所以那將是一回事。這將是兩個擴展和一些來自該部分的新類型的客戶，包括電信業者。因此，我們不斷有新的電信業者合作夥伴加入。是的，這是一回事。

And the second thing is that exiting from the device-based stuff, in the near future, we believe there will be more and more spatial solutions being needed. And the spatial solution providers will be a different type of company too. And for that, no matter it's for like the property manager, warehouse management, logistics. So those guys manage some type of space and the house, the building, the warehousing or some asset too.

第二件事是，除了基於設備的東西之外，在不久的將來，我們相信將需要越來越多的空間解決方案。空間解決方案提供者也將是不同類型的公司。無論是物業經理、倉庫管理或物流。所以這些人也管理某種類型的空間和房屋、建築物、倉庫或某種資產。

So those type of solutions, before AI technology happens, they don't have a comprehensive right of solution to carry the pinpoint. And while the spatial models and spatial solutions we design can meet that, so that can help us to open another door too. So that will be what we call the new (inaudible) for us. That's it.

因此，在人工智慧技術出現之前，這些類型的解決方案並不具備全面的解決方案權來實現精確定位。而我們設計的空間模型和空間解決方案可以滿足這一點，這也可以幫助我們打開另一扇門。這就是我們所說的新的（聽不清楚）。就是這樣。

Do you have any follow-up question?

您還有其他問題嗎？

That's all.

就這樣。

Yang Liu, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的劉洋。

Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to ask questions. Two questions here. The first one is on the outlook of the revenue structure because we observed in the past few quarters that IoT SaaS and other growth recovered meaningfully and while the smart device distribution growth has been volatile. So this kind of change -- mix change is very critical to the overall gross margin. So I would like to hear your view in terms of the three business lines revenue growth rate going forward and whether it will have meaningful impact on the blended gross margin? That is my first question.

好的。感謝您給我提問的機會。這裡有兩個問題。第一個是關於收入結構的展望，因為我們在過去幾個季度觀察到，物聯網 SaaS 和其他成長顯著復甦，而智慧設備分銷成長一直不穩定。所以這種變化——組合變化對於整體毛利率來說非常關鍵。所以我想聽聽您對未來三條業務線營收成長率的看法，以及它是否會對混合毛利率產生有意義的影響？這是我的第一個問題。

And my second question is regarding what's your view on the competition in the AI for the IoT solution provider? Do you see more hyper-scalers would like to develop IoT hardware themselves? Or do you think it is still -- or it is a booming market with a lot of smaller product development company in the market and Tuya can continue to add a lot of value to those customers?

我的第二個問題是，您如何看待物聯網解決方案供應商在人工智慧領域的競爭？您是否認為更多超大規模企業願意自行開發物聯網硬體？或者您認為它仍然——或者它是一個蓬勃發展的市場，市場上有很多規模較小的產品開發公司，塗鴉可以繼續為這些客戶增加很多價值？

Yes. So for the question, I think that our three business models because they come in with a totally different approach to the customers. So I mean, overall, the margin level of each of the business models will be kind of stable. So for the PaaS, we believe that -- so the overall margin for PaaS will remain at around 45%. We think that will be reasonable or slightly over 45%.

是的。所以對於這個問題，我認為我們的三種商業模式是因為它們採用了完全不同的方法來對待客戶。所以我的意思是，整體而言，每種商業模式的利潤水準都會比較穩定。因此對於 PaaS，我們相信 - PaaS 的整體利潤率將保持在 45％ 左右。我們認為這個數字是合理的，或略高於 45%。

And for the SaaS because it's software-based, I think that over 70% will be remained. And on the solution side, because we'll follow the hardware game rules. So while you have -- you scale the volumes, while the customers scale the volume too and sometimes you have to subsidize some of the profit to the customer.

對於 SaaS，因為它是基於軟體的，我認為將保留 70% 以上。在解決方案方面，因為我們會遵循硬體遊戲規則。因此，當您擴大銷售量時，客戶也會擴大銷售量，有時您必須向客戶補貼部分利潤。

So we believe that on the solution side, maybe by -- we scale it into -- we double that or scale that in a bigger base, that maybe the margin of solutions will slightly decline a little bit, but not that much. We think that we'll continue to maintain the solutions margins over 20% or 21%. So that will be overall the margin or the nature of the margins on each of the business models.

因此，我們認為，在解決方案方面，也許透過將其擴大一倍或在更大的基礎上擴大規模，解決方案的利潤率可能會略微下降一點，但不會下降那麼多。我們認為我們將繼續保持解決方案利潤率在 20% 或 21% 以上。所以這將是每種商業模式的整體利潤或利潤性質。

And put that together and what we found is that so the PaaS will continue to provide a stable growing base for the entire Tuya business because that will be essentially everything that the customer needs to purchase. And SaaS, like I mentioned earlier to John's question, so we think that the SaaS will be more long-term growing curve for that. So we're not in hurry.

綜合起來，我們發現 PaaS 將繼續為整個塗鴉業務提供穩定的成長基礎，因為這基本上是客戶需要購買的一切。至於 SaaS，就像我之前在回答 John 的問題時提到的那樣，我們認為 SaaS 將會有更長期的成長曲線。所以我們並不著急。

So continues to enlarge the device base and customer base and we deploy those services on top of that and convert more of them to pay the recurring revenue. That will be a long-term journey, but remaining similar growth with the PaaS, maybe that will be our expected too.

因此，我們繼續擴大設備基礎和客戶基礎，並在此基礎上部署這些服務，並將其中更多的服務轉化為經常性收入。這將是一個長期的旅程，但與PaaS保持類似的成長，也許這也是我們的預期。

And solution because solution come from my PaaS customers, they're calling out for a solution rather than the development toolkit from the PaaS side. So solution is that we convert more and more customers demand directly from my PaaS base.

而解決方案，因為解決方案來自我的 PaaS 客戶，他們呼籲的是解決方案，而不是來自 PaaS 方面的開發工具包。因此解決方案是，我們直接從我的 PaaS 基礎轉換越來越多的客戶需求。

So for that part, the solution might grow faster. And while solution become a larger pie of my total revenue, so my general gross margin rate -- gross margin, my GPM, we believe that in the long term will slightly decrease a little bit. But I think that will be reasonable.

因此對於這部分來說，解決方案可能會成長得更快。雖然解決方案在我的總收入中所佔的比例越來越大，但我們相信，從長遠來看，我的整體毛利率——毛利率，我的毛利率，會略微下降。但我認為這是合理的。

I mean, the margin will -- because I have a bigger pie of the solution side will come with a lower margin compared with the other two business models. So for that part, we think that will be good. But that's not the problem for us.

我的意思是，由於我佔據了解決方案的更大份額，因此與其他兩種商業模式相比，利潤率會更低。因此就這一部分而言，我們認為這將是好的。但這對我們來說不是問題。

I believe that the key to evaluate the gross margin is that you need to break down each of the business model and tell the value of that, whether that values reflect to the right margins at that business models and I need to compare that business model to the industry level.

我認為評估毛利率的關鍵是需要分解每個商業模式並說明其價值，這些價值是否反映了該商業模式的正確利潤率，並且我需要將該商業模式與行業水平進行比較。

So the SaaS is compared to other SaaS company or other SaaS peers and the PaaS is for other PaaS too. So that's the point I try to make. So it's a very stable business model and structure will start to change slightly.

因此，SaaS 是與其他 SaaS 公司或其他 SaaS 同行進行比較，PaaS 也是與其他 PaaS 進行比較。這就是我想要表達的觀點。因此，這是一個非常穩定的商業模式，結構將開始略有改變。

How about the second question? What is the outlook for the competitive landscape in AI for the IoT?

那麼第二個問題呢？物聯網人工智慧的競爭格局前景如何？

Yes. I think that -- I think I already covered part of the question, right? I think that right now, the good part for AI is that right now is in a very positive and active momentum for the market, not for capital market, but I mean for the hardware industry. And so we have a lot like a movers as either designers or manufacturers or solution providers.

是的。我認為——我認為我已經回答了部分問題，對嗎？我認為現在人工智慧的好的一面是現在市場處於非常積極和活躍的勢頭，不是資本市場，而是硬體產業。因此，我們有很多像搬運工一樣的人，他們要么是設計師，要么是製造商，要么是解決方案提供者。

And so right now we process three, right? Like I mentioned, it's either the video-audio interactive and all the decision-making analytic one and the toy. But we believe that there will be thousands of -- at least thousands of more vertical use cases we're coming from. So it's very early stage.

那現在我們處理三個，對嗎？正如我所提到的，它要么是視頻音頻交互，要么是所有決策分析，要么是玩具。但我們相信，我們將會有數千個——至少數千個更多的垂直用例。所以現在還處於非常早期的階段。

And this year is that we got so many players on the field to try different type of ideas. So what we need to do is that we offer them a toolkit to easily turn their ideas into tool. I think that will be the unique value that Tuya provides. And also that's why we have such a successful developer ecosystem. So to let them get away from -- to everything in-house, we offer them a shortcut to testify their ideas.

今年我們有很多球員在球場上嘗試不同類型的想法。因此我們需要做的是，為他們提供一個工具包，讓他們輕鬆地將想法轉化為工具。我想這將是塗鴉提供的獨特價值。這也是我們擁有如此成功的開發者生態系統的原因。因此，為了讓他們擺脫一切內部事務，我們為他們提供了一條捷徑來證明他們的想法。

So I believe that this year will be, kind of, very starting line for the AI device that you can find millions of new devices out there. A lot of people try in and some will prove to work it out and starting to scale that. Maybe some not, they redesign that. So yes, I think that will be the momentum we're looking forward to see. And so what we do is that just, like I mentioned, we continue to lower the barrier for anyone to get in.

所以我相信今年將是人工智慧設備的起跑線，你將能找到數百萬台新設備。許多人都嘗試過，有些人最終成功了，並開始擴大規模。也許有些不是，他們重新設計了。所以是的，我認為這將是我們期待看到的勢頭。因此，正如我所提到的，我們所做的就是繼續降低任何人進入的門檻。

(Operator Instructions) There are no additional questions at this time. I'll hand back to the management team for any closing remarks.

（操作員指示）目前沒有其他問題。我將把發言交還給管理團隊，請他們做最後的總結。

Okay. So thank you again for joining our call tonight and this morning. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us or request through our IR website. We look forward to speaking with everyone in our next earnings call. So have a good day. Thank you.

好的。再次感謝您參加我們今晚和今天早上的電話會議。如果您有任何其他問題，請隨時聯絡我們或透過我們的 IR 網站提出請求。我們期待在下次財報電話會議上與大家交談。祝您有美好的一天。謝謝。

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.

感謝大家參加今天的會議。該計劃確實就此結束。您現在可以斷開連線。

Portions of this transcript that are marked (interpreted) were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event.

本記錄中標記（翻譯）的部分是由現場通話中的翻譯人員說的。翻譯由贊助此活動的公司提供。