Telus Corp (TU) 2025 Q2 法說會逐字稿

Good day, everyone. Welcome to the TELUS 2025 Q2 earnings conference call. I would like to introduce your speaker, Mr. Robert Mitchell. Please go ahead.

大家好。歡迎參加 TELUS 2025 年第二季財報電話會議。我想介紹一下你們的演講者羅伯特·米切爾先生。請繼續。

Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. Our second quarter 2025 results, news release, MD&A, financial statements, and detailed supplemental investor information were posted to our website earlier this morning. On our call today, we will begin with remarks by Darren and Doug. For the Q&A portion, we will be joined by Zainul, Navin, and Tobias.

大家好。感謝您今天加入我們。我們的 2025 年第二季業績、新聞稿、MD&A、財務報表和詳細的補充投資者資訊已於今天早上發佈到我們的網站上。今天的電話會議首先由達倫和道格發言。在問答環節，Zainul、Navin 和 Tobias 將加入我們。

Briefly, prepared remarks, slides and answers to questions contain forward-looking statements. Actual results could vary from these statements. The assumptions on which they are based and the material risks that could cause them to differ are outlined in our public filings with the securities commissions in Canada and the US, including our second quarter 2025 and our annual 2024 MD&A. And with that, over to you, Darren.

簡而言之，準備好的評論、投影片和問題的答案包含前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與這些陳述有所不同。我們向加拿大和美國證券委員會提交的公開文件中概述了這些假設所依據的假設以及可能導致它們出現差異的重大風險，包括我們的 2025 年第二季報告和 2024 年年度 MD&A 報告。現在，輪到你了，達倫。

Thanks, Mitchell, and hello, everyone. In the second quarter, our team's commitment to operational excellence empowered TELUS to deliver another quarter of industry-leading customer growth and strong financial performance.

謝謝，米切爾，大家好。在第二季度，我們團隊對卓越營運的承諾使 TELUS 再次實現了業界領先的客戶成長和強勁的財務表現。

These results demonstrate the strength of our leading portfolio of bundled offerings across mobile and home and the strategic expansion of TELUS PureFibre connectivity to homes and businesses, inclusive of Ontario and Quebec.

這些結果證明了我們領先的行動和家庭捆綁產品組合的實力，以及 TELUS PureFibre 連接到家庭和企業的策略擴展，包括安大略省和魁北克省。

We're delivering much more than just affordable Internet. We are providing Canadians with differentiated and unique competitive services, including AI-fueled smart home energy management, next-generation healthcare, affordable innovative security and exciting entertainment solutions.

我們提供的不僅僅是價格實惠的網路。我們為加拿大人提供差異化和獨特的競爭服務，包括基於人工智慧的智慧家居能源管理、下一代醫療保健、經濟實惠的創新安全和令人興奮的娛樂解決方案。

Our investment in Canada will be augmented by our recently announced $2 billion investment to expand broadband services in Ontario and Quebec. This will allow TELUS to prudently progress national scale through smart broadband network builds and drive product innovation, competition, investment, and affordability in Canada.

我們最近宣布將投資 20 億美元擴大安大略省和魁北克省的寬頻服務，這將增強我們在加拿大的投資。這將使 TELUS 能夠透過智慧寬頻網路建設謹慎地推進全國規模，並推動加拿大的產品創新、競爭、投資和可負擔性。

The CRTC's wholesale fiber decision mirrors the access granted to Eastern-based companies in the West and as well the wholesale access that TELUS is providing the cable companies on our broadband wireless network in Ontario and Quebec.

CRTC 的批發光纖決定反映了授予西部東部公司的訪問權限以及 TELUS 為安大略省和魁北克省的寬頻無線網路上的有線電視公司提供的批發訪問權限。

Relative to our peers, TELUS stands out as the company committing to bold future-focused infrastructure investments, reflecting our confidence in the Canadian market over the longer term and our strategy of bundling wireless and wireline broadband services.

與同行相比，TELUS 脫穎而出，致力於大膽的面向未來的基礎設施投資，反映了我們對長期加拿大市場的信心以及捆綁無線和有線寬頻服務的策略。

Importantly, our track record aligns with the federal government's goals of unlocking private investment, building one Canadian economy by removing interprovincial barriers, addressing cost of living challenges for families, diversifying Canada's economy through driving innovation of Canadian IP, and ensuring Canada is on the leading edge of AI, digital innovation, and smart sustainability.

重要的是，我們的業績與聯邦政府的目標一致，即釋放私人投資，透過消除省際障礙來建立一個加拿大經濟，解決家庭生活成本挑戰，透過推動加拿大智慧財產權創新實現加拿大經濟多元化，並確保加拿大處於人工智慧、數位創新和智慧永續發展的前沿。

Turning back to our strong second quarter performance. We achieved total mobile and fixed customer growth of 198,000 in the quarter. This was driven by mobile phone and connected device additions of 167,000 alongside fixed customer additions of 31,000.

回顧我們第二季度的強勁表現。本季度，我們的行動和固定客戶總數增加了 198,000 個。這是由於行動電話和連接設備增加了 167,000 台，而固定客戶增加了 31,000 台。

The dedication of our team in delivering customer service excellence contributed to continued strong loyalty results once again this quarter. Notably, postpaid mobile phone churn was 0.9%, consistent with Q2 of last year as we realized our 12th consecutive year below the 1% level.

我們團隊致力於提供卓越的客戶服務，本季再次為保持強勁的忠誠度成績做出了貢獻。值得注意的是，後付費手機流失率為 0.9%，與去年第二季一致，這是我們連續第 12 年低於 1% 的水平。

Looking at our financial results, we achieved solid and resilient TTech EBITDA growth, including TELUS Health of 4%, which is consistent with our Q1 results. In mobile, we drove phone net additions of 55,000 and connected device net additions of 112,000.

從財務表現來看，我們實現了穩健且有彈性的 TTech EBITDA 成長，其中 TELUS Health 成長了 4%，這與我們第一季的業績一致。在行動領域，我們推動手機淨增 55,000 部，連接設備淨增 112,000 部。

These results were supported by our ongoing focus on economic margin-accretive customer growth. This is evidenced by our consistent industry-leading lifetime revenue underpinned by our industry best churn result, which, of course, is the hallmark of our organization.

這些結果得益於我們持續關注可增加經濟利潤的客戶成長。這體現在我們始終保持業界領先的終身收入，以及我們行業最佳的客戶流失率結果，這當然是我們組織的標誌。

Let's turn now and take a look at our wireline business. TELUS delivered another quarter of industry-leading total fixed customer additions. Indeed, we were the only company within the industry to deliver positive net additions within the wireline sector.

現在讓我們來看看我們的有線業務。TELUS 再次實現了業界領先的固定客戶總數成長。事實上，我們是業內唯一在有線領域淨增的公司。

This included 27,000 Internet net additions alongside industry best fixed data services revenue growth of 73%. This is underpinned by our leading PureFibre offering and our consistent strategy of leveraging our superior portfolio of bundled products and services on a national basis that differentiate us meaningfully from the competition in a way that matters to customers.

其中包括網路淨增 27,000 個用戶，以及業界最佳的固定數據服務收入成長 73%。這是由我們領先的 PureFibre 產品和我們在全國範圍內利用優質捆綁產品和服務組合的一貫戰略所支撐的，這些戰略使我們在與競爭對手的競爭中脫穎而出，這對客戶至關重要。

Furthermore, TELUS Health continues to demonstrate strong operating momentum globally, achieving operating revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth of 16% and 29%, respectively, and Doug will comment shortly on what the EBITDA growth looks like on a normalized basis and how consistent that growth has been historically.

此外，TELUS Health 在全球範圍內繼續展現出強勁的營運勢頭，分別實現營運收入和調整後 EBITDA 成長 16% 和 29%，Doug 將很快評論 EBITDA 成長在正常化基礎上的情況以及這種成長在歷史上的一致性。

Moreover, the team drove a very strong year-over-year increase in global lives covered to almost $160 million, inclusive of workplace options alongside continued organic growth expansion. These results were fueled by product enhancements, expanded sales channels, including cross-selling and effective cost management through technology and synergy optimization. Our team's deeply rooted dedication to putting customers first serves as the foundation for this success, and we're building on it.

此外，該團隊推動全球人壽保險金額較去年同期成長非常強勁，達到近 1.6 億美元，其中包括工作場所選擇以及持續的有機成長擴張。這些成果得益於產品的改進、銷售管道的擴大（包括交叉銷售）以及透過技術和協同優化實現的有效成本管理。我們團隊根深蒂固的「客戶至上」的奉獻精神是這一成功的基礎，我們正在此基礎上繼續努力。

Since acquiring LifeWorks, we've realized $400 million in combined annualized synergies. You may recollect that our original target in this regard was $150 million to $200 million. This $400 million includes $322 million from cost efficiencies and $78 million from successful cross-selling strategies that are continuing to grow markedly.

自收購 LifeWorks 以來，我們已實現 4 億美元的年度綜效。您可能還記得，我們最初的目標是 1.5 億至 2 億美元。這 4 億美元包括來自成本效益的 3.22 億美元和來自成功的交叉銷售策略的 7,800 萬美元，這些資金還在持續顯著增長。

We remain on track to meet our goal of $427 million by the end of 2025, and we will augment this materially with Workplace Options global synergies that are on the come. We are excited to accelerate TELUS Health's growth momentum through 2025 and well beyond on the path to very interesting and productive monetization strategies.

我們仍有望實現 2025 年底達到 4.27 億美元的目標，並且我們將利用即將到來的 Workplace Options 全球協同效應大幅增加這一目標。我們很高興能夠在 2025 年及以後加速 TELUS Health 的成長勢頭，走上非常有趣且富有成效的貨幣化策略之路。

The consistency of our results reflects our team's passion for delivering superior customer experiences over our world-leading wireless and PureFibre networks. Our significant broadband network investments drive extensive socioeconomic benefits for Canadians and communities from coast to coast. At the same time, they are enabling continued advancement in our operational, financial, and customer experience performance.

我們所取得的成果的一致性反映了我們團隊致力於透過我們世界領先的無線和 PureFibre 網路提供卓越客戶體驗的熱情。我們對寬頻網路的大量投資為加拿大人民和全國各地的社區帶來了廣泛的社會經濟效益。同時，它們也推動著我們的營運、財務和客戶體驗績效不斷提升。

Looking ahead, our financial position and our operational outlook remains strong, supported by continued EBITDA growth and stable capital expenditures, resulting in a meaningful free cash flow expansion on a chronic basis prospectively. This will be enhanced by significant value creation in our growth businesses and a multiplicity of asset monetization opportunities.

展望未來，我們的財務狀況和營運前景依然強勁，得益於持續的 EBITDA 成長和穩定的資本支出，從而帶來長期有意義的自由現金流擴張。我們的成長業務所創造的巨大價值和多種資產貨幣化機會將進一步增強這一目標。

In this regard, today, we announced a definitive agreement with La Caisse, who will acquire 49.9% interest in our newly formed Canadian wireless tower infrastructure operator, Terrion. This initiative will monetize our world-class tower infrastructure portfolio, creating long-term value and strengthening TELUS' financial flexibility.

在這方面，今天，我們宣布與法國儲蓄銀行達成最終協議，後者將收購我們新成立的加拿大無線塔基礎設施營運商 Terrion 49.9% 的權益。該計劃將使我們世界一流的塔式基礎設施組合貨幣化，創造長期價值並增強 TELUS 的財務靈活性。

Indeed, this allows us to accelerate balance sheet deleveraging and progress towards achieving our target ratio of 3 times net debt to EBITDA by 2027, whilst turning off our discounted dividend reinvestment program on a progressive basis over the same time period.

事實上，這使我們能夠加速資產負債表去槓桿，並朝著到 2027 年實現淨債務與 EBITDA 之比 3 倍的目標邁進，同時在同一時間段內逐步關閉我們的折扣股息再投資計劃。

Strategically, Terrion will focus on building new towers for TELUS, who will be its largest customer from the start, whilst also developing partnerships to expand tower access across the industry and further monetize this valuable asset.

從戰略上講，Terrion 將專注於為 TELUS 建造新塔，TELUS 從一開始就是其最大的客戶，同時還將發展合作夥伴關係以擴大整個行業的塔接入並進一步將這一寶貴資產貨幣化。

We are working with a Canadian partner in La Caisse to support broad national wireless access for the benefit of consumers and small businesses across the country. This move also aligns with TELUS' commitment to infrastructure sharing, leveraging smart partnerships to extend the reach of our technology whilst continuing to lead in network quality and services.

我們正在與法國儲蓄銀行 (La Caisse) 的加拿大合作夥伴合作，支援廣泛的全國無線接入，以造福全國的消費者和小型企業。此舉也符合 TELUS 對基礎設施共享的承諾，利用智慧合作夥伴關係擴展我們的技術覆蓋範圍，同時繼續在網路品質和服務方面保持領先地位。

Just as we are providing mandated wholesale access through the regulatory MVNO framework on our broadband wireless network across both our traditional operating territory and our expansion territories, and also enabling competitors to access our Fiber Infrastructure under the CRTC's pro-competition wholesale framework, we are now extending that to our wireless infrastructure across Canada. This will enable broader use of our wireless tower real estate to maximize its utility for Canadians.

正如我們透過監管 MVNO 框架在我們的傳統營運區域和擴展區域的寬頻無線網路上提供強制性批發訪問，並允許競爭對手在 CRTC 的競爭批發框架下訪問我們的光纖基礎設施一樣，我們現在將其擴展到整個加拿大的無線基礎設施。這將使我們的無線塔房地產得到更廣泛的利用，從而最大限度地為加拿大人提供效用。

Indeed, having a single company focused on tower expansion will positively impact all wireless providers' ability to deploy acquired spectrum to enhance coverage, capacity, and service improvements for their customers.

事實上，擁有一家專注於塔式擴建的公司將對所有無線供應商部署所獲得頻譜的能力產生積極影響，從而增強客戶的覆蓋範圍、容量和服務改進。

Again, it's good for competition, it's good for investment and competition and investment are synergistic. Importantly, our new tower initiative mirrors our position on Internet wholesale, specifically that fair access to infrastructure can foster meaningful competition, affordability, and consumer choice, whilst incentivizing private investment along the way.

再說一次，這有利於競爭，有利於投資，競爭和投資具有協同作用。重要的是，我們的新塔計劃反映了我們在網路批發方面的立場，具體來說，公平使用基礎設施可以促進有意義的競爭、可負擔性和消費者選擇，同時激勵私人投資。

I would like to thank Eros Spadotto, my long-time colleague and TELUS former Executive Vice President of Technology Strategy for assuming the CEO role of Terrion. I expect that he is going to deliver an excellent performance in this assignment.

我要感謝我的長期同事、TELUS 前技術策略執行副總裁 Eros Spadotto 擔任 Terrion 的執行長一職。我期望他能出色地完成這項任務。

My sincere thanks as well to the TELUS and the team for working diligently and innovatively to bring this important initiative to fruition. Finally, reflecting our TELUS team's long-standing commitment to putting our customers and our communities first in June, the TELUS Friendly Future Foundation held its second Annual Gala. Notably, the foundation raised more than $2.6 million in sponsorships, cash donations, and in-kind contributions to support the foundation's TELUS Student Bursary Fund.

我還要衷心感謝 TELUS 和團隊的勤奮和創新，使這項重要措施取得成果。最後，為了體現我們 TELUS 團隊長期以來將客戶和社區放在首位的承諾，TELUS 友好未來基金會於 6 月舉辦了第二屆年度慶典活動。值得注意的是，基金會籌集了超過 260 萬美元的贊助、現金捐贈和實物捐助，以支持基金會的 TELUS 學生助學金基金。

This was also complemented over and above the $2.6 million with our partnership with CIBC in this regard to expand the Student Bursary Fund still further.

我們也與加拿大帝國商業銀行 (CIBC) 合作，在 260 萬美元的基礎上進一步擴大學生助學金基金。

Since its launch in 2023, the TELUS Friendly Future Foundation has provided over $4 million in TELUS Student Bursary, helping more than 1,000 students from underserved communities reach their dream of post-secondary education, whilst also affecting meaningful change within their communities through volunteerism.

自 2023 年成立以來，TELUS 友好未來基金會已提供了超過 400 萬美元的 TELUS 學生助學金，幫助 1,000 多名來自服務不足社區的學生實現了接受高等教育的夢想，同時也透過志願服務為他們的社區帶來了有意義的變化。

In closing, I'd like to express my gratitude to our team at TELUS for their efforts, their resiliency and their grit in executing on our consistent winning strategy to meet or exceed the commitments that we have to all of our stakeholders. And on that note, let me turn the call over to Uncle Doug.

最後，我要向 TELUS 團隊表示感謝，感謝他們的努力、韌性和勇氣，他們執行了我們始終如一的勝利策略，以滿足或超越了我們對所有利害關係人的承諾。關於這一點，請允許我將電話轉給道格叔叔。

Thank you, Darren, and hi, everyone. TELUS had another very strong quarter of operating execution, financial performance and delevering activities. Mobile network revenue was down slightly as mobile phone and connected device subscriber additions as well as higher IoT revenue of 9% were offset by lower mobile phone ARPU.

謝謝你，達倫，大家好。TELUS 在營運執行、財務表現和去槓桿活動方面又度過了一個非常強勁的季度。行動網路收入略有下降，因為行動電話和連接設備用戶的增加以及物聯網收入的增加 9% 被行動電話 ARPU 的下降所抵消。

While the 3.3% decline in ARPU is reflective of the ongoing competitive pressures observed during the prior periods as well as lower overage and roaming revenues, we are seeing an improved operating environment as market conditions stabilize. We saw ARPU trend improvements quarter over quarter across new activations, rate plan changes and customer renewals, reflecting our ongoing efforts to mitigate network revenue pressures.

雖然 ARPU 下降 3.3% 反映了前期持續的競爭壓力以及超額和漫遊收入的下降，但隨著市場條件的穩定，我們看到營運環境有所改善。我們看到，在新啟動、資費計畫變更和客戶續約方面，ARPU 趨勢逐季度都有所改善，這反映了我們為緩解網路收入壓力所做的持續努力。

Fixed data services grew 3% year over year, our 18th quarter of positive growth, driven by subscriber ARPU, growth in Internet, as well as security and automation. Additionally, fixed revenue was supported by higher managed services in the business area.

固定資料服務年增 3%，這是我們第 18 個季度實現正成長，這得益於用戶 ARPU、網路成長以及安全和自動化。此外，業務領域內更高的託管服務也支撐了固定收入。

TTech adjusted EBITDA increased 3% alongside margin expansion of 100 basis points to 41.7%. These results were driven by our consistent emphasis on profitable customer growth and ongoing focus on cost efficiency and effectiveness and asset monetization progress.

TTech 調整後的 EBITDA 成長 3%，利潤率擴大 100 個基點至 41.7%。這些成果源自於我們一貫強調獲利性客戶成長以及持續專注於成本效率和效益以及資產貨幣化進程。

TELUS Health revenues and adjusted EBITDA grew 16% and 29%, respectively, and adjusted margin expanded 180 basis points to 17.5%. This growth was driven by organic growth in Employer Solutions as well as business acquisitions, including Workplace Options.

TELUS Health 營收和調整後 EBITDA 分別成長 16% 和 29%，調整後利潤率擴大 180 個基點至 17.5%。這一增長是由雇主解決方案的有機增長以及包括工作場所選項在內的業務收購所推動的。

TELUS Health EBITDA, excluding Workplace Options was over 20%, that is eight quarters in a row now of over 20% EBITDA growth in TELUS Health. Growth was also supported by various other services, including our provider vertical. In digital, operating revenues and adjusted EBITDA were in line with expectations. Please refer to TELUS Digital's earnings release and analyst call commentary earlier today.

TELUS Health 的 EBITDA（不包括工作場所選項）超過 20%，也就是說，TELUS Health 的 EBITDA 成長率已連續八個季度超過 20%。成長也得到了包括我們的垂直供應商在內的各種其他服務的支持。在數位領域，營業收入和調整後的 EBITDA 符合預期。請參閱今天早些時候的 TELUS Digital 收益報告和分析師電話評論。

At the end of Q2, informed by TELUS Digital's most recent financial model refresh, we recorded a non-cash impairment adjustment to goodwill. The key assumptions that were updated during the latest model included higher weighted average cost of capital, lower perpetual growth rate, and lower cash flow forecast from pricing and margin pressures.

在第二季末，根據 TELUS Digital 最新的財務模型更新，我們記錄了商譽的非現金減損調整。最新模型中更新的關鍵假設包括更高的加權平均資本成本、更低的永久成長率以及更低的定價和利潤壓力導致的現金流預測。

You can find all the details of the impairment and assumptions underlying it in the notes to the financial statements of both TELUS and TELUS Digital. With this impairment, net income for TELUS was largely offset by the impairment after deducting noncontrolling interest share and basic EPS was zero. On an adjusted basis, net income was $342 million and EPS was $0.22.

您可以在 TELUS 和 TELUS Digital 的財務報表註釋中找到有關減損及其相關假設的所有詳細資訊。由於此項減值，TELUS 的淨收入在扣除非控制權益份額後被減值所抵消，基本每股收益為零。經調整後，淨收入為 3.42 億美元，每股收益為 0.22 美元。

Capital expenditures, excluding real estate declined by $11 million or 2%, primarily driven by the completion of certain projects in wireless and fiber network builds and the planned transition to fiber builds and partner build model for brownfield and new market areas.

不包括房地產的資本支出下降了 1,100 萬美元，即 2%，主要原因是無線和光纖網路建設中的某些項目的完成，以及計劃向棕地和新市場區域的光纖建設和合作夥伴建設模式的過渡。

Overall capital intensity was 13% and unchanged over the period. Free cash flow of $535 million increased by 11% compared to the same period a year ago, driven by higher EBITDA as well as lower capital expenditures and interest paid.

總體資本密集度為 13%，且在此期間保持不變。自由現金流為 5.35 億美元，較去年同期成長 11%，這得益於 EBITDA 成長以及資本支出和利息支付減少。

Looking ahead, we remain focused on driving towards achieving our 2025 targets, which we reiterated today. This includes TTech, including health operating revenues and adjusted EBITDA growth of 2% to 4% and 3% to 5%, respectively. Consolidated capital expenditures, excluding real estate of $100 million are targeted to remain stable at $2.5 billion. Lastly, consolidated free cash flow for 2025 of $2.15 billion is also confirmed.

展望未來，我們將繼續致力於實現我們今天重申的 2025 年目標。其中包括 TTech，包括健康營運收入和調整後的 EBITDA 成長分別為 2% 至 4% 和 3% 至 5%。不包括 1 億美元房地產的綜合資本支出目標是保持穩定在 25 億美元。最後，也確認 2025 年合併自由現金流為 21.5 億美元。

As it relates to our balance sheet, the average term to maturity of our long-term debt stands at 13 years with a weighted average cost of 4.71. Additionally, our financial position remains robust and our leverage ratio declining to 3.7 times, down 20 basis points sequentially since the first quarter.

從我們的資產負債表來看，長期債務的平均到期期限為13年，加權平均成本為4.71。此外，我們的財務狀況依然穩健，槓桿率下降至3.7倍，自第一季以來季減20個基點。

As we progress through 2025, we expect continued improvements to our leverage ratio, including a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio by 3 times by 2027, alongside removing the discount associated with our dividend reinvestment program.

隨著我們進入 2025 年，我們預計我們的槓桿率將繼續改善，包括到 2027 年淨負債與 EBITDA 比率將提高 3 倍，同時取消與我們的股息再投資計畫相關的折扣。

In June, we successfully raised $2.85 billion in hybrid securities across multiple offerings in Canada and the United States, building upon the $1.6 billion raised in April. These financings support deleveraging with 50% of the proceeds receiving equity treatment by the credit rating agencies.

6 月份，我們在加拿大和美國透過多次發行混合證券成功籌集了 28.5 億美元，4 月份籌集的資金為 16 億美元。這些融資支持去槓桿，其中 50% 的收益將由信用評級機構進行股權處理。

Subsequent to June 30, we completed our debt tender to retire $1.8 billion of securities in Canada and the United States for the repurchase in the amount of just under $1.6 billion, recapturing approximately or circa $230 million of reduced future cash flow debt obligations.

6 月 30 日之後，我們完成了債務招標，贖回了加拿大和美國價值 18 億美元的證券，並回購了近 16 億美元的證券，收回了約 2.3 億美元的減少的未來現金流債務。

Our continued organic operational growth, including EBITDA expansion, declining capital intensity and free cash flow, combined with the ongoing asset monetization initiatives will further strengthen our balance sheet.

我們持續的有機營運成長，包括 EBITDA 擴張、資本密集度下降和自由現金流，加上正在進行的資產貨幣化舉措，將進一步加強我們的資產負債表。

Notably, we monetized our wireless towers that were announced this morning, will reduce our leverage by approximately 0.17 times on a pro forma basis. Including this transaction, we expect to achieve leverage ratio of 3.55 times exiting 2025 as we progress towards our 2027 target of 3 times. The accounting for La Caisse's Power transaction was an equity transaction. There will be no debt on our balance sheet. We will be consolidating the entity of Terrion.

值得注意的是，我們今天上午宣布的無線塔貨幣化將使我們的槓桿率在準備基礎上降低約 0.17 倍。包括這筆交易在內，我們預計到 2025 年底槓桿率將達到 3.55 倍，並朝著 2027 年 3 倍的目標邁進。法國儲蓄銀行的電力交易會計屬於股權交易。我們的資產負債表上不會有任何債務。我們將合併 Terrion 實體。

In addition, there will be no impact to EBITDA. Free cash flow in our planning period will be positive from this transaction between interest reductions and the leasing opportunities as highlighted by Darren. All the rent paid to Terrion is at fair market value lease rates that you would see in the market.

此外，這不會對 EBITDA 產生影響。正如 Darren 所強調的，在我們的規劃期間內，利息降低和租賃機會之間的交易將產生正的自由現金流。支付給 Terrion 的所有租金均按照市場上的公平市場價值租賃價格計算。

Looking ahead through 2025 and beyond, we are well-positioned to drive sustainable performance as we maintain our focus on profitable growth. Our strategic initiatives and customer expansion, product innovation and service enhancement will further strengthen our market position and drive long-term value creation. With that, Robert, back to you.

展望 2025 年及以後，我們將繼續專注於獲利成長，並有能力推動永續績效。我們的策略性舉措和客戶擴展、產品創新和服務提升將進一步鞏固我們的市場地位並推動長期價值創造。好了，羅伯特，回到你這裡。

Thanks, Doug. Carl, we're ready for questions, please.

謝謝，道格。卡爾，我們已經準備好回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Jerome Dubreuil, Desjardins.

傑羅姆‧杜布雷伊 (Jerome Dubreuil)，德雅爾丹 (Desjardins)。

First I have, I'd like to start on whether we should read anything in terms of strategic shift from your proposed privatization of TIXT. I mean, does it mean there's a change in terms of the monetization path for other tech ventures that are adjacent to telecom or the move is based on maybe more idiosyncratic items at TELUS Digital?

首先，我想問我們是否應該從您提議的 TIXT 私有化策略轉變來解讀一些內容。我的意思是，這是否意味著與電信相鄰的其他科技企業的貨幣化路徑發生了變化，或者這一舉措可能基於 TELUS Digital 的更多特殊項目？

Move is related to support the deleveraging goals of the organization. And I don't think you should read anything into that on an adjacency basis to the other monetization strategies that we have with our emerging growth businesses.

此舉與支持組織的去槓桿目標有關。我認為你不應該從與我們新興成長業務的其他貨幣化策略相鄰的角度來解讀這一點。

Okay. And if you can maybe provide financial details on the towers, maybe numbers about EBITDA of the entity. I recognize it's consolidated, but that would still be helpful.

好的。如果您能提供有關這些塔的財務細節，例如有關該實體的 EBITDA 數字，那該怎麼辦？我知道它是合併的，但這仍然有幫助。

Yeah. We haven't disclosed the EBITDA, but you will see that all the towers are at fair market value rent. So I think it'd be fairly transparent on the number of towers we have. As mentioned, we will be consolidating. So there will be no impact on debt, no impact on EBITDA. And we will be free cash flow positive in all of our future modeling on an annual basis to TELUS when you bring in the business model that we have put forward and have agreed upon with our partner.

是的。我們尚未揭露 EBITDA，但您會看到所有大樓的租金均以公平市價計算。所以我認為我們擁有的塔的數量是相當透明的。正如所提到的，我們將會進行整合。因此，這不會對債務產生影響，也不會對 EBITDA 產生影響。當您引入我們提出並與合作夥伴達成一致的商業模式時，我們所有未來模型中每年向 TELUS 提供的自由現金流均為正值。

Maher Yaghi, Scotiabank.

Maher Yaghi，加拿大豐業銀行。

Doug, thanks for the additional disclosure this morning on the deal. You indicated that in the short term to -- I guess, the medium term, your free cash flow should be having a positive impact from the transaction. How should we think about the long-term impact of this deal as you deploy more towers? I think there's in the deal a plan to deploy more towers. And what happens if we see more colocations on these towers if other of your peers begin to put their antennas on them? So that's my first question.

道格，感謝您今天上午就該交易做出的進一步披露。您表示，從短期到中期來看，您的自由現金流應該會受到交易的正面影響。當您部署更多塔時，我們應該如何看待這筆交易的長期影響？我認為該協議中包含部署更多塔的計劃。如果其他同行開始在這些塔上安裝天線，我們看到更多的共置天線，會發生什麼情況？這是我的第一個問題。

Just a question on wireless. Darren, you indicated in your prepared remarks that you feel that the market is getting better in terms of its direction on price. I guess, what gives you the view that this could be sustained? I think this is an important question that a lot of investors are trying to get an answer to that the recent improvement in prices have the potential to be sustained over the medium term.

這只是關於無線的一個問題。達倫，您在準備好的發言中表示，您認為市場在價格方向上正在變得更好。我想，是什麼讓您認為這種情況可以持續下去？我認為這是一個重要的問題，許多投資者都在試圖找到答案，即近期價格的上漲是否有可能在中期內持續下去。

On the first one, as you're well aware, the demand for data continues to increase. So within our model and our partnership with Terrion, they're going to continue to build towers for capacity and densification for TELUS. In addition, they will continue to lease with other colos, as you highlighted.

關於第一個問題，如您所知，對數據的需求持續增加。因此，在我們的模型和與 Terrion 的合作中，他們將繼續為 TELUS 建造容量和密度更高的塔。此外，正如您所強調的，他們將繼續與其他託管公司進行租賃。

The business model we have in front of us is that not only will we break even or be very positive or positive cash flow into the future, the co-locate based on our current plan, which is very reasonable, will also keep us cash flow positive for the term of the agreement.

我們面前的商業模式是，我們不僅能夠在未來實現收支平衡或獲得非常積極的或正的現金流，而且基於我們當前計劃的共同定位（這是非常合理的）也將使我們在協議期限內保持正的現金流。

And when you think of some of the challenging margins that the industry has, as Darren highlighted, this is a great opportunity for us to utilize assets across the whole industry better and more effectively to increase the profitability and return on these assets by all providers.

正如達倫所強調的，當你想到這個行業面臨的一些利潤挑戰時，這對我們來說是一個絕佳的機會，可以更好、更有效地利用整個行業的資產，以提高所有供應商的盈利能力和這些資產的回報率。

So Maher, I don't have a crystal ball, and it's probably not appropriate that I wax miracle on pricing. So I'll just put those out as two caveats. In terms of what gives me hope, I don't think certainty is on the table is probably a few things. Number one, I think the current trend is encouraging. So it's not just AI that draws inference from trends on data. So I think that is an encouraging component.

所以，馬希爾，我沒有水晶球，而且我對定價大加讚賞可能並不合適。所以我僅將其作為兩個警告提出來。就帶給我希望而言，我認為尚不確定的事情可能有幾件。首先，我認為當前的趨勢令人鼓舞。因此，不僅僅是人工智慧可以根據數據趨勢進行推斷。所以我認為這是一個令人鼓舞的因素。

Secondly, the market has previously been irrational. So when prices create NPV negative outcomes, I don't believe that, that's sustainable. So at some point, the market has to shift from irrational to rational. I don't think that's a particularly astute observation, but I think that transition has to take place because it's just not sustainable to have that level of irrationality leading to negative NPV outcomes. Now eventually, given the amount of capital that we deploy within our industry, I think economics have to drive our pricing decisions.

其次，市場先前已經處於非理性狀態。因此，當價格產生 NPV 負結果時，我認為這是不可持續的。因此，在某個時候，市場必須從非理性轉向理性。我認為這不是一個特別敏銳的觀察，但我認為這種轉變必須發生，因為這種導致負 NPV 結果是不可持續的。現在，最終，考慮到我們在行業內部署的資本數量，我認為經濟因素必須推動我們的定價決策。

And I'm hoping maybe not in any given day or any point in time, but over the medium to longer term, that's the axiom that's reflected in our go-to-market decision-making.

我希望這也許不是在某一天或某個時間點，而是從中長期來看，這是我們進入市場的決策中所體現的公理。

The other thing that I think is interesting to draw inference from in terms of observable comps is that looking across other jurisdictions globally, you see more sanguine behavior. So if it seems to work there, it might work here. Again, given the commonality of the economics overall for our industry, particularly how much we have to invest.

從可觀察的比較結果來看，我認為另一個有趣的推論是，放眼全球其他司法管轄區，你會看到更樂觀的行為。因此，如果它在那裡有效，那麼它在這裡也可能有效。再次，考慮到我們行業整體經濟的共通性，特別是我們需要投資多少。

So let's make sure that we get a proper ROI on that investment. Having said that, I think what you want out of an investment in TELUS is to hope for the best, but plan for the worst, which is why we're fanatical on the AMPU front, which is why you've seen a 10% unit cost to serve improvement.

因此，我們要確保這項投資獲得適當的回報。話雖如此，我認為你對 TELUS 的投資是希望得到最好的結果，但做最壞的打算，這就是我們對 AMPU 方面如此狂熱的原因，也是你看到 10% 的單位服務成本改進的原因。

Next, I think there's not many organizations that you're going to find anywhere in the world on telecom that's getting backstopped the way we are with TELUS Digital. And so that drives everything from hygiene cost efficiencies from labor arbitrage to the AI enablement of our business, which provides huge productivity benefits that manifest themselves in better ARPU results even in a pressurized ARPU environment. And that is a distinguished or differentiated capability of our organization.

其次，我認為在世界範圍內，很少會發現有哪個電信組織能夠像 TELUS Digital 一樣得到支援。因此，這推動了從衛生成本效率、勞動力套利到我們業務的人工智慧支援的一切，這提供了巨大的生產力優勢，即使在壓力重重的 ARPU 環境中也能體現出更好的 ARPU 結果。這是我們組織的突出或差異化能力。

Next, what else differentiates TELUS? We're not a one-trick pony on wireless. If you look at our wireline business, we're the only one that's growing there as it relates to net adds. And we've had a tremendous amount of consistency in terms of data revenue growth, and I would expect that to expand prospectively because we have a lot of product differentiation within this area. You see the moves that we're making on home energy.

接下來，TELUS 還有什麼不同之處？在無線領域我們並不是只有一招的。如果你看一下我們的有線業務，你會發現我們是唯一一家在淨增業務方面成長的公司。我們在數據收入成長方面保持了極大的一致性，而且我預計這一成長將會進一步擴大，因為我們在這個領域擁有許多產品差異化。您將會看到我們在家庭能源方面所採取的措施。

You see the success that we've had within our security business. You see what we're striving to do on home health. Effectively, what we're doing is to say, okay, we spend all that money on broadband infrastructure, wireless and fiber. Let's get economies of scope out of that fixed cost infrastructure by delivering new services over existing facilities. And the beauty of that is those new services aren't getting commoditized.

您可以看到我們在安全業務中的成功。您將看到我們在家庭保健方面所做的努力。實際上，我們所做的就是說，好吧，我們把所有的錢都花在寬頻基礎設施、無線和光纖上。讓我們透過在現有設施上提供新服務來從固定成本基礎設施中獲得範圍經濟。其美妙之處在於這些新服務不會被商品化。

So if there's aggressive pricing activity taking place on one product, well, we've got six other products where that's not occurring. And that's true for TELUS, but it's not true for our competition. And I think that's a massively distinguishing factor for our organization.

因此，如果一種產品出現激進的定價行為，那麼我們還有其他六種產品不會出現這種情況。對於 TELUS 來說確實如此，但對於我們的競爭對手來說卻並非如此。我認為這是我們組織的一個顯著特徵。

And then lastly, we have our emerging businesses. And you heard Doug's comments as it relates to the economics on Health and my comments in terms of what the future looks like. But it's not just the growth attributes of those business that are differentiated from telecom pressures, but aligned with telecom in terms of the data analytic thesis along the way, but it gives us the topology of international exposure.

最後，我們有新興業務。您聽到了道格關於健康經濟學的評論，以及我對未來前景的評論。但這些業務的成長屬性不僅與電信壓力不同，而且在數據分析論點方面與電信保持一致，但它為我們提供了國際曝光的拓撲結構。

So if things are under duress in the Canadian market, we can enjoy an exposure in other geographic markets that are doing well. And I guess, really, what I'm saying is we've got a lot of elegant diversification within our portfolio that makes us very resilient.

因此，如果加拿大市場面臨壓力，我們可以在其他表現良好的地理市場中受益。我想，實際上，我想說的是，我們的投資組合中有很多優雅的多樣化，這使我們非常有彈性。

Stephanie Price, CIBC World Markets.

加拿大帝國商業銀行全球市場部 (CIBC World Markets) 的 Stephanie Price。

I just wanted to circle back on the towers for a minute. And I was hoping you can unpack the interest savings versus the rent payments when you kind of talk about getting to the net cash flow positive impact?

我只是想在塔上再繞一圈。當您談論獲得淨現金流的正面影響時，我希望您能解釋一下利息節省與租金支付之間的關係？

The combination of the interest savings plus the colo revenue are what would be the offset of the lease payments and our share of those because we are still owning 51% of that. That is the math in itself. And so I'll just leave it at that, and we'll -- we've built in and we've agreed to the model with our partner on those fronts, and we're planning to execute to that level.

利息節省加上託管收入將抵消租賃付款和我們的份額，因為我們仍然擁有其中的 51%。這本身就是數學。所以我就不多說了，我們已經與我們的合作夥伴就這些方面達成了共識，我們計劃執行到這個水平。

Okay. Sounds good. And then just on Koodo reintroduced 5G plans at the flanker level. Obviously, we saw the similar thing to back-to-school last year. Just curious if you could talk a little bit about that strategy and the positioning the flanker versus the flagship offerings as we head into back-to-school?

好的。聽起來不錯。然後 Koodo 又在側翼層級重新推出了 5G 計畫。顯然，我們看到了與去年開學時類似的情況。我只是好奇，在我們即將開學之際，您是否可以稍微談一談這一策略以及側翼產品與旗艦產品的定位？

Zainul, do you want to take that one?

Zainul，你想拿那個嗎？

Yeah, sure. Thanks for the question, Stephanie. So I think what we've done across our offers is really look at three pillars related to customer economic value from a data size, roaming and speed tier perspective, device subsidy and then the financing floor. And we've really done a lot of research on what we think customers are going to gravitate towards and the features and functions that are aligned with our AMPU objectives. Reintroducing 5G back into Koodo made sense from that perspective because there were other value drivers that we are monetizing out of the flanker strategy.

是的，當然。謝謝你的提問，史蒂芬妮。因此，我認為我們在提供的所有服務中所做的實際上是從數據規模、漫遊和速度等級、設備補貼和融資底線的角度來審視與客戶經濟價值相關的三大支柱。我們確實對客戶將會青睞什麼以及與我們的 AMPU 目標相符的特性和功能進行了大量研究。從這個角度來看，將 5G 重新引入 Koodo 是有意義的，因為我們正在透過側翼策略將其他價值驅動因素貨幣化。

So we're really trying to keep it commensurate with what customers are willing to pay for, what attracts them to the brand, what service level and device type that they're going to gravitate towards and how that aligns with the overall economic value of the offer. So that's how we move towards that decision. And I think we're pleased with some of the traction on the premium versus flanker differentiation, but there's more to go in that regard.

因此，我們確實試圖使其與客戶願意支付的價格、吸引他們關注品牌的因素、他們會傾向於哪種服務水平和設備類型以及如何與產品的整體經濟價值保持一致。這就是我們做出這項決定的方式。我認為我們對高端產品與側翼產品差異化的一些進展感到滿意，但在這方面還有更多的工作要做。

Vince Valentini, TD Securities.

文斯·瓦倫蒂尼，道明證券。

Two things. One, Doug, can you just clarify the working capital of $223 million outflow. Obviously, that's the part that does not include the contract assets and easy installment plans. Is that something one-off, lumpy? And will it recur in the second half?

兩件事。首先，道格，您能否解釋一下 2.23 億美元流出的營運資金。顯然，這是不包括合約資產和輕鬆分期付款計劃的部分。這是一次性的事嗎？而下半年這種情況還會再發生嗎？

Second one, bigger picture back to wireless, but let me try to take the crystal ball out of it, not predict the future, but just if the recent trend of slight improvement in pricing discipline were to be sustained, how long will it take for your wireless service revenue to get back to positive versus the minus 1% clip you've been at. Is this something that's still going to take four or five quarters for all of the past pricing behavior to flow through?

第二個問題，從更大的角度來看無線領域，但我不能預測未來，只是假設最近定價紀律略有改善的趨勢能夠持續下去，那麼你們的無線服務收入需要多長時間才能從之前的-1%的水平恢復到正值。過去所有的定價行為是否仍需要四到五個季度才能全部完成？

Or are we much closer to an inflection point if again, if the current price discipline holds? Maybe another way of asking that is, is there any way to quantify what percentage of your customer base is already repriced with very little risk of any further movement down?

或者，如果當前的價格規律保持不變，我們是否更接近拐點？也許換一種問法就是，有沒有辦法量化已經重新定價的客戶群百分比，而進一步下跌的風險很小？

So on working capital, Vince, we expect working capital to be somewhat net neutral on free cash flow or on cash flow for the year. So it is the lumpiness of timing between just payables and receivables and the seasonality that our industry sees. So there is no expectation that it will be a drain on cash for the full year.

因此，文斯，關於營運資本，我們預期營運資本對自由現金流或年度現金流的影響將保持淨中立。因此，我們的行業看到的只是應付款項和應收款項之間的時間不均勻性以及季節性。因此，預計它不會造成全年現金流失。

Thanks for the disguised question on quarterly ARPU forecasting, Vince. I appreciate that. Of course, for me to give you a precise answer, I would have to know the trajectory of the recovery for the industry on a macro basis. I'll try to answer your question with two components, one is the majority of our base has been repriced. I won't be precise as to the exact percentage in that regard, but it is the majority.

感謝您提出的有關季度 ARPU 預測的隱性問題，文斯。我很感激。當然，為了給你一個準確的答案，我必須從宏觀上了解該行業的復甦軌跡。我將嘗試從兩個方面來回答你的問題，一是我們的大部分基礎已經重新定價。我無法準確說出這方面的具體百分比，但這是大多數。

And if there is a continuity of the performance, I would hope within the next three to four quarters, we would achieve the inflection point that you're alluding to in that regard.

如果這種表現能夠持續下去，我希望在接下來的三到四個季度內，我們能夠達到您所提到的轉折點。

Tim Casey, BMO.

提姆·凱西（BMO）。

Two for me. Doug, you mentioned there's a variety of drivers on the fixed data line, which was up 3%. I'm just wondering if we should think of that as a sustainable number into the back half of the year and into '26, given what you've seen in terms of competitive activity and your continued efforts in out of footprint?

對我來說是兩個。道格，您提到固定數據線上有多種驅動因素，其成長了 3%。我只是想知道，考慮到您所看到的競爭活動和您在足跡方面的持續努力，我們是否應該將其視為今年下半年和 26 年可持續的數字？

And secondly, just maybe if you could, an update on some of the other deleverage drivers, I guess, particularly real estate. How are you thinking about what path you might choose there? And what are the interim monetization patterns you're going to see as you sell some stuff.

其次，如果可以的話，請您更新其他去槓桿驅動因素，特別是房地產。您如何考慮選擇哪條路？當您銷售一些商品時，您將看到什麼樣的中期貨幣化模式。

Zainul, do you want to take the fixed component first. I think you've got a pretty robust response to that to say the least. And then, Doug, why don't you do real estate?

Zainul，你想先拿固定部分嗎？我認為你對此至少做出了相當有力的回應。那麼，道格，你為什麼不做房地產呢？

Sure. Thanks very much for the question, Tim. So on fixed data growth, I think we've definitely shown a lot of consistency, as Darren highlighted in his remarks. I think the other element underpinning that is the diversity of the contribution.

當然。非常感謝你的提問，提姆。因此，就固定數據成長而言，我認為我們確實表現出了很大的一致性，正如達倫在演講中所強調的那樣。我認為支撐這一點的另一個因素是貢獻的多樣性。

So when you look at the diversity of that contribution, you can see that there's strong growth across a bundle and portfolio of services from Internet to other contributing elements, including our security portfolio, but also with respect to the business growth that helps support that fixed revenue profile.

因此，當您查看這種貢獻的多樣性時，您會發現從互聯網到其他貢獻元素（包括我們的安全產品組合）的一系列服務都實現了強勁增長，而且有助於支持固定收入狀況的業務增長也同樣如此。

So Navin may want to top up on that. But I think that diversification certainly helps with the continuity. Maybe the last comment I'll make is that you can see, I believe that while we are growing sustainably and consistently, we are also growing profitably.

因此 Navin 可能想要補充這一點。但我認為多樣化肯定有助於保持連續性。也許我要說的最後一點是，您可以看到，我相信我們在持續、持續成長的同時，也正在實現獲利成長。

So whether that's in footprint or out of footprint, we're really looking at ensuring that our value propositions, our pricing and our customer acquisition are commensurate with driving profitable consumer growth and ensuring that we leverage our existing customer base to grow into from a household standpoint so that we're able to achieve that at a lower cost of acquisition.

因此，無論是在足跡內還是足跡外，我們真正關注的是確保我們的價值主張、定價和客戶獲取與推動盈利性消費者增長相稱，並確保我們利用現有客戶群從家庭角度發展，以便我們能夠以較低的獲取成本實現這一目標。

So I believe that there's good sustainability in that growth profile, and we're being very disciplined in terms of how we're seeking that growth, and we're continuing to build our diversification accordingly.

因此，我相信這種成長態勢具有良好的可持續性，而且我們在尋求成長的方式上非常嚴謹，並將繼續相應地建立多元化策略。

Just before Doug goes, given that the strength of the story here is not relegated exclusively to consumer, Navin, would you like to top up on a B2B basis and the opportunities that you see there on the performance on the CBS front across SMB and mid-market, both to date performance, but also potential?

在 Doug 離開之前，鑑於這裡的故事的力量並不僅限於消費者，Navin，您是否願意補充一下 B2B 基礎以及您在 CBS 跨 SMB 和中端市場的表現中看到的機會，包括迄今為止的表現，還有潛力？

Yeah. Thanks, Darren. I'd be happy to. I think the first thing I would say is that we continue to outrun competitive and pricing challenges with volume. And we're doing that both on the fixed and the wireless side.

是的。謝謝，達倫。我很樂意。我想說的第一件事是，我們繼續透過產量來克服競爭和定價挑戰。我們在固定和無線兩個方面都在做這件事。

We're seeing strong loading both in our incumbent areas as well as nationally. So we continue to see opportunities to grow market share across the country. And what I think is really nice to see is that our ability to drive product intensity is continuing to accelerate and improve, and that's really on the back of strong customer experience capabilities from the TELUS business team and customers seeing that as a key differentiator in making decisions to make product decisions that are beyond just one product. So I think that's been really great.

我們看到，無論是在我們現有的地區還是在全國範圍內，負載都呈現強勁增長勢頭。因此，我們繼續看到擴大全國市場份額的機會。我認為真正令人高興的是，我們推動產品強度的能力正在不斷加速和提高，這實際上得益於 TELUS 業務團隊強大的客戶體驗能力，客戶認為這是做出超越單一產品的產品決策的關鍵差異化因素。所以我認為這真的很棒。

Our IoT business continues to grow well. We're monetizing 5G, both on connectivity as well as associated industry solutions and data capabilities, private wireless network doing really well as an example in that regard.

我們的物聯網業務持續保持良好成長。我們正在將 5G 貨幣化，包括連接性以及相關行業解決方案和數據功能，私人無線網路在這方面表現得非常好。

And just lastly, we continue to focus strongly on our margin profile. And as Darren mentioned, with the strong assets we have in TELUS Digital, we continue to drive AI and other automation and digital capabilities in the business and improving both our customer experience and cost profile concurrently. So I'll leave it at that, Darren. Back to you.

最後，我們將繼續高度關注我們的利潤率狀況。正如 Darren 所提到的，憑藉 TELUS Digital 的強大資產，我們將繼續推動業務中的人工智慧和其他自動化和數位化能力，同時改善我們的客戶體驗和成本狀況。所以我就不多說了，達倫。回到你身邊。

Thank you, Navin. Doug?

謝謝你，納文。道格？

Yeah. So on real estate and other delevering opportunities, we have three or four other buckets. So real estate itself, as you may recall, we had approximately 200 properties that we're looking at, and that would equate to a $2 billion to $3 billion portfolio that we could roll into a REIT when the scale was appropriate to do so. That would include over 5,000 to 10,000 rental units depending on the full rollout. We're still a couple -- probably a couple of years away from getting that scale in the build program.

是的。因此，在房地產和其他去槓桿機會方面，我們還有三到四個其他的選擇。因此，就房地產本身而言，正如您可能記得的那樣，我們正在考慮大約 200 處房產，這相當於 20 億至 30 億美元的投資組合，當規模合適時，我們可以將其轉入房地產投資信託基金 (REIT)。根據全面部署情況，這將包括 5,000 至 10,000 多個租賃單位。我們還需要一段時間——可能還需要幾年的時間才能在建設計劃中達到這個規模。

We do have three buildings coming live early 2026, but in the meantime, we are still rationalizing real estate. You would have even seen in this quarter, there was in the other line, a real estate transaction, which generated more cash for our organization, and we'll continue to do that where we can rationalize real estate and not under the development side, but we're building an asset a consequence, pruning where necessary and continuing to drive long-term value from that asset.

我們確實有三棟建築將於 2026 年初投入使用，但同時，我們仍在合理化房地產。您甚至可能在本季度看到，在另一條線上有一筆房地產交易，這為我們的組織帶來了更多現金，我們將繼續這樣做，以便我們可以合理化房地產，而不是在開發方面，但我們正在構建一項資產，在必要時進行修剪，並繼續從該資產中推動長期價值。

We still have -- we've only completed 3 of 31 central offices on the copper decommissioning side. So we still have a significant amount of room to go as well on our copper monetization. We've recycled over 5 tons so far and generating double that, almost 10,000 tons of greenhouse gas reductions from the recycling of that copper. And so again, that $1 billion opportunity we have is probably only in its less -- significantly less than 10% from an execution perspective, but we actually have sight to getting to those remaining 31.

我們仍然——在銅退役方面，我們只完成了 31 個中心局中的 3 個。因此，我們的銅貨幣化仍有很大的發展空間。到目前為止，我們已經回收了超過 5 噸的銅，並透過回收這些銅減少了近 10,000 噸的溫室氣體排放。因此，從執行角度來看，我們擁有的 10 億美元機會可能只佔不到 10%，但實際上我們有望獲得剩下的 31%。

And then we have our, call it, our pruning opportunities where we do have ventures and certain business opportunities that are not necessarily in our strategic long-term footprint. And you've seen a couple of those monetizations as well. And you'll continue to see those in the tens of millions over the next few quarters. And then probably midterm, we still have the partner opportunity. And I think Darren referred to this as well in both health and tech.

然後，我們有了我們稱之為修剪的機會，我們確實擁有一些企業和某些商業機會，這些機會不一定在我們的長期策略足跡中。而且您也已經看到了其中一些貨幣化現象。在接下來的幾個季度裡，你將繼續看到數千萬的用戶。然後可能到中期，我們仍然有合作機會。我認為 Darren 在健康和科技領域也提到了這一點。

But as we build these assets a consequence and you've seen the -- especially the accelerated growth in TELUS Health that there is definitely a lot of interest in bringing in partner relationships as well as partner interest on inbounds to us of can they -- how can they help us grow that business?

但是，隨著我們建立這些資產，您已經看到了結果——尤其是 TELUS Health 的加速成長，人們肯定對建立合作夥伴關係很感興趣，合作夥伴也對我們感興趣——他們如何幫助我們發展業務？

Drew McReynolds, RBC.

德魯·麥克雷諾茲，RBC。

My question, just, I think, bigger picture, probably just start off for you, Darren, on, I guess, Canada's sovereign AI push here with respect to the ecosystem and infrastructure, and it all seems very fresh. And of course, I think Canadian telecom investors just wondering kind of what the role of traditional telcos like yourself will be in this broader ecosystem. We've seen some news announcements from many operators here. Just would love to get your sense of where you think the biggest incremental revenue growth opportunities are potentially within this ecosystem.

我的問題只是，我認為，從更大的角度來看，達倫，對你來說可能只是開始，我想，加拿大在生態系統和基礎設施方面推動主權人工智慧，這一切似乎都很新鮮。當然，我認為加拿大電信投資者只是想知道像你們這樣的傳統電信公司在這個更廣泛的生態系統中將扮演什麼角色。我們在這裡看到了許多業者發布的一些新聞公告。只是想了解您認為這個生態系統中最大的增量收入成長機會在哪裡。

I'm going to be tight, not expansive on this because I'm very frustrated with thought leadership and intellectual property leakage here in terms of the strategy that we have been pursuing. So three areas for me that I think are interesting. One is there's a huge opportunity on the sovereign AI factory front.

我將會嚴格地、而不是廣泛地談論這個問題，因為就我們一直推行的策略而言，我對思想領導和智慧財產權外洩感到非常沮喪。所以我認為有三個領域很有趣。一是自主人工智慧工廠領域存在巨大機會。

We are ideally positioned to leverage on an optimized basis, particularly given our relationship with NVIDIA and where we can take that on a progressive basis in terms of compute power and how that can be leveraged on both an inference and on a training basis, and that duality is important as well as our sustainability thesis getting into the realm of liquid cooling and the like. And I think we have an opportunity there to play a pivotal role in that regard.

我們處於理想的位置，可以利用優化的基礎，特別是考慮到我們與 NVIDIA 的關係，以及我們可以在計算能力方面逐步利用這一點，以及如何在推理和訓練的基礎上利用這一點，並且二元性很重要，我們的可持續性論文也進入了液體冷卻等領域。我認為我們有機會在這方面發揮關鍵作用。

And you have to be mindful that telcos are originators, carriers, deliverers, stores of data. So our position here, including within the broadband infrastructure and security front is exceedingly strong so that would be component number one.

你必須記住，電信公司是資料的發起者、營運商、交付者和儲存者。因此，我們在這裡的地位，包括寬頻基礎設施和安全方面的地位非常強大，所以這將是第一要素。

Component number two is the ingestion of AI within our business. And the upside opportunity there, I don't think has any limits in terms of what it can do for us at a productivity level on go-to-market operations from sales to service, to care, to assure, to billing and collection in that regard as well as the cost efficiency attributes.

第二個組成部分是在我們的業務中引入人工智慧。我認為，就其在從銷售到服務、關懷、保證、計費和收款的市場運營生產力水平以及成本效率屬性方面所能為我們做的事情而言，那裡面的上行機會是無限的。

And then thirdly is the external go-to-market opportunity within TELUS Digital solutions led by Tobias and his team. And we are unique with this asset on the TELUS Digital Solutions front, which is both a fantastic enabler for TELUS Corporation proper, but it's also a terrific vehicle to take our AI solution set out into the external market on a global basis.

第三是 Tobias 和他的團隊領導的 TELUS Digital 解決方案中的外部上市機會。我們在 TELUS 數位解決方案方面擁有獨一無二的資產，它既是 TELUS 公司本身的絕佳推動者，也是將我們的 AI 解決方案推向全球外部市場的絕佳工具。

And in some cases, but not limited to recycling the product factory that TELUS is on the AI front in terms of our ecosystem, developing trial testing, using and scaling these services and proving it out and of course, then taking that particular show on the road with TELUS Digital Solutions.

在某些情況下（但不限於），回收 TELUS 在我們的生態系統中處於 AI 前沿的產品工廠，開發試驗測試，使用和擴展這些服務並進行驗證，當然，然後通過 TELUS 數位解決方案將這一特定節目帶到路上。

Tobias, maybe I'll ask you just on the latter point that has less competitive sensitivity to it, just to talk about our attributes on this front and why we like our competitive positioning in this regard.

托比亞斯，也許我會問你關於後者的競爭敏感性較低的問題，只是談談我們在這方面的屬性以及為什麼我們喜歡我們在這方面的競爭定位。

Yeah. Thank you, Darren, for the question. I would say that -- and I mentioned this on the TELUS Digital call earlier that this second half of the year, we're seeing a real transition in the marketplace from proofs of concept to actual production level deployment of AI.

是的。謝謝 Darren 提出的問題。我想說的是——我之前在 TELUS Digital 電話會議上提到過，今年下半年，我們將看到市場從概念驗證到 AI 實際生產級部署的真正轉變。

And one of the most exciting things for us at TELUS Digital is to work with TELUS as customer zero to really prove these concept out at scale, and that gives us a big differentiator versus most of our competitors who don't have a built-in customer zero.

對於 TELUS Digital 來說，最令人興奮的事情之一就是與 TELUS 合作作為零號客戶，真正大規模地證明這些概念，這使我們與大多數沒有內建零號客戶的競爭對手相比具有很大的區別。

I can give you two quick examples. TELUS Expert Messenger has been launched. It's our asynchronous messaging customer support platform. And because it's asynch, it's ideally suited for AI in its current state. I think we've all experienced AI can at times be slow, at times, you have to ask it, you have to really coach the answer out.

我可以給你舉兩個簡單的例子。TELUS Expert Messenger 已推出。這是我們的非同步訊息客戶支援平台。而且由於它是異步的，因此非常適合當前狀態下的人工智慧。我想我們都經歷過人工智慧有時會很慢，有時你必須詢問它，你必須真正指導它給出答案。

So something asynchronous is perfectly positioned for AI. We launched it this year. We've been able to improve first contact resolution by [9 percentage points, a 25% -- point reduction] in agent attrition, which goes to speak how much if you deploy AI properly, how much it improves team member experience. And when we included AI in this platform, we got a 13% improvement in average handle time.

因此非同步的東西對於 AI 來說非常適合。我們今年推出了它。我們已經能夠將首次聯繫解決率提高 [9 個百分點，減少了 25%]，從而降低座席流失率，這說明如果正確部署 AI，它將在多大程度上改善團隊成員的體驗。當我們將人工智慧納入該平台時，平均處理時間提高了 13%。

Another example is our agent trainer, which we've launched with TELUS with other clients as well. And I think an example of how powerful an AI-based agent trainer is, is we looked at the bottom quartile and putting them into an AI agent trainer within 30 days, 80% of the bottom quartile were top quartile performers and also concurrently driving a customer satisfaction score uplift of 16% within that cohort.

另一個例子是我們的代理培訓師，我們已經與 TELUS 以及其他客戶合作推出了該培訓師。我認為，人工智慧代理訓練器的強大之處在於，我們觀察了最低四分位數，並在 30 天內將他們放入人工智慧代理訓練器中，其中 80% 的最低四分位數表現最佳，同時也推動了該群體的客戶滿意度得分提升 16%。

So those are illustrative examples of taking proofs of concept and taking them to a full production. And I think really allowing us to be leaders, especially in contact centers for global deployment.

這些都是將概念證明付諸實踐並投入全面生產的說明性範例。我認為這確實讓我們成為領導者，特別是在全球部署的聯絡中心。

Benjamin Swinburne, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的班傑明‧斯溫伯恩。

Two questions. I want to ask about the Internet business and then maybe come back to AI and data centers. So on Internet, some comment in your prepared -- in your earnings docks about churn being up year on year and sort of competitive intensity. I guess when I think about your brand and your Fiber Network, I think it's really well positioned to win in the market. So just wondering if you guys had any more color on sort of what's happening with churn and competition and whether you have any expectation for those trends to improve over the next couple of quarters?

兩個問題。我想問一下網路業務，然後也許再回到人工智慧和資料中心的話題。因此，在網路上，您準備好的某些評論—在您的收益報告中，關於客戶流失率逐年上升以及競爭強度的報道。我想，當我想到您的品牌和光纖網路時，我認為它確實處於有利地位，可以在市場上獲勝。所以我只是想知道你們是否對客戶流失和競爭的情況有更多的了解，以及你們是否預計這些趨勢將在未來幾季內得到改善？

And then just back to this sort of tying AI and the data center businesses together, is there an appetite or plan to deploy capital at TELUS towards new data center construction? I'm sure you're well aware Bell has been making a lot of news on that front. I'm just curious if you think that's an interesting opportunity or maybe not the best use of capital from a TELUS perspective?

然後回到將人工智慧和資料中心業務結合在一起的問題，TELUS 是否有興趣或計劃部署資金用於新資料中心的建設？我確信您很清楚貝爾在這方面已經製造了很多新聞。我只是好奇，您是否認為這是一個有趣的機會，或者從 TELUS 的角度來看，這可能不是對資本的最佳利用？

Zainul, do you want to take the first part on that if you don't mind, and maybe talk about what we've done on pricing related to wireline economics, but also where we're going in terms of our churn improvement measures?

Zainul，如果您不介意的話，您是否願意先談第一部分，並談談我們在與有線經濟相關的定價方面所做的工作，以及我們在客戶流失改進措施方面的進展？

Absolutely. Thank you for the question. So as we stated, we have seen some upticks in churn, not to our liking. We've been a very strong proponent and delivered on significant customer loyalty quarter after quarter. So even when we see some small changes, we take that very, very seriously.

絕對地。謝謝你的提問。正如我們所說，我們看到客戶流失率上升，這並不符合我們的預期。我們一直是堅定的支持者，並且每個季度都獲得了顯著的客戶忠誠度。因此，即使我們看到一些細微的變化，我們也會非常認真地對待。

We have seen affordability constraints across the consumer environment and aligning with customers on what their price preferences are and ensuring that we rightsize bundles towards their preferences.

我們已經看到整個消費環境中存在著可負擔性的限制，並與客戶就他們的價格偏好進行協調，並確保我們根據他們的偏好調整套餐規模。

But I think that the key element here is that we're really leaning in and working with Tobias to leverage AI on churn propensity, on churn early identification, on aligning pricing models. And we're seeing goodness with respect to making sure customers are seeing more consistency in their pricing and more opportunities to drive value into their households through other streaming or other bundles that we offer.

但我認為這裡的關鍵因素是我們真正傾向於與 Tobias 合作，利用人工智慧來預測客戶流失傾向、早期識別客戶流失以及調整定價模型。我們看到的好處是確保客戶的定價更加一致，並且透過我們提供的其他串流媒體或其他捆綁服務為他們的家庭帶來更多價值。

So I think overall, we're not happy with the trajectory that we've had in the past. We're taking very significant measures to ensure that we improve that trajectory, and we're continuing to leverage the assets that we're known for with respect to the AI capabilities, the loyalty, and customer service experience improvements and the bundling capacity of ensuring that customers see more than just one product value in terms of our holistic bundle, and our product road map will continue to improve in that regard.

所以我認為總的來說，我們對過去的發展軌跡並不滿意。我們正在採取非常重要的措施來確保改善這一軌跡，並且我們將繼續利用我們在人工智慧功能、忠誠度和客戶服務體驗改進以及捆綁能力方面的資產，確保客戶在我們的整體捆綁中看到的不僅僅是一種產品價值，我們的產品路線圖將在這方面繼續改進。

That's helpful.

這很有幫助。

And in terms of the next question, I guess the response could be best characterized as being fortuitous for us because TELUS had previously invested significant capital in the development of world-class, world-leading data centers in both Rimouski and in Kamloops.

對於下一個問題，我想答案對我們來說可以說是幸運的，因為 TELUS 之前已經在裡穆斯基和坎盧普斯投入了大量資金來建設世界一流的、世界領先的數據中心。

And when I say world-class, we put a lot of effort and capital into the construction of those facilities to ensure that we optimize for power. We chose locations that had minimal seismic susceptibility and had sustainability and security attributes and broadband connectivity that was truly second to none. So we are recycling these facilities into our sovereign AI factory.

當我說世界一流時，我們投入了大量的精力和資金來建造這些設施，以確保我們能夠優化電力。我們選擇的地點地震敏感度最低，並且具有可持續性和安全性，寬頻連接也無與倫比。因此，我們正在將這些設施回收利用，使其成為我們自主的人工智慧工廠。

So we're completely bootstrapped, if you will, on that front, which means the capital required to undertake this activity in partnership with NVIDIA, it's not nothing, but it's effectively de minimis because we're leveraging an existing asset. And not only does that help us on the affordability or the capital efficiency front, it helps us on the speed front as well as the longevity in terms of how we can evolve the compute power and sustainability characteristics going forward. And that's quite a potent and highly differentiated story.

因此，如果你願意的話，我們在這方面是完全自力更生的，這意味著與 NVIDIA 合作開展這項活動所需的資金不是沒有，但實際上是微不足道的，因為我們正在利用現有資產。這不僅有助於我們提高可負擔性或資本效率，還有助於我們提高速度和壽命，即如何在未來發展運算能力和永續性特徵。這是一個相當有力且高度差異化的故事。

The only other thing I would say on this front is as these opportunities continue to evolve, it's not unforeseeable that we could also look at partnership opportunities there to bring in capital to support undertakings of this nature given our advantaged position, not unlike what we've just done with the case on the tower monetization. So lots of latitude and optionality here. And there's nothing like sweating an existing capital asset to get a second life, if you will, on a return basis, and that's what we're doing.

在這方面我唯一想說的是，隨著這些機會的不斷發展，考慮到我們的優勢地位，我們也可以尋找合作機會來引入資本來支持這種性質的事業，這並非不可預見，就像我們剛剛在塔貨幣化案例中所做的那樣。因此這裡有很多自由度和可選性。如果你願意的話，沒有什麼比努力經營現有的資本資產以獲得第二次生命更好的了，從回報的角度來說，這就是我們正在做的事情。

Carl, time for two more questions please.

卡爾，還有兩個問題。

Matthew Griffiths, Bank of America.

馬修‧格里菲斯，美國銀行。

On the towers, you mentioned that the plan or part of the strategy is to have Terrion build new towers and expand the business. So obviously, the monetization has benefits on deleveraging. This sounds like it has the potential to allow you to expand that business without necessarily having capital on the balance sheet.

關於塔樓，您提到計劃或部分策略是讓 Terrion 建造新塔並擴大業務。所以很明顯，貨幣化對去槓桿是有好處的。這聽起來像是有可能讓你擴大業務而不必在資產負債表上擁有資本。

So I was just wondering if you could maybe talk about that and if the -- any builds would be kind of debt financed by Terrion and maybe that would be separate than what -- you're consolidating it, so maybe it ends up on your balance sheet anyway, but just how that idea of deploying capital may have factored in?

所以我只是想知道您是否可以談論這個問題，以及——任何建設是否都是由 Terrion 以債務融資的方式進行的，也許這與您正在合併的是分開的，所以也許它最終會出現在您的資產負債表上，但部署資本的想法是如何被考慮進去的？

And on the same idea of capital, I thought I heard Doug, I thought I heard you say that you're exploring or doing some partner build activity. And I was wondering if that related to fiber? I just wasn't sure if I heard that right. But obviously, across the industry, we see a lot of this type of model where people partner up and there's a third-party capital comes to contribute to fiber build. So just curious if I -- it might be a short question, maybe I heard that wrong, but if you could expand on that, if there's anything there, it would be helpful.

關於同樣的資本理念，我想我聽到道格說，我想我聽到你說你正在探索或做一些合作夥伴建立活動。我想知道這是否與纖維有關？我只是不確定我是否聽對了。但顯然，在整個產業中，我們看到許多這種類型的模式，即人們合作並有第三方資本來參與光纖建設。所以我只是好奇——這可能是一個簡短的問題，也許我聽錯了，但如果你能詳細說明一下，如果有任何內容的話，那將會很有幫助。

Yeah. So Terrion will build the future towers for TELUS, and it will be funded by both us and our partners. So there is an opportunity there for cash flow opportunity but because we do consolidate it, it will show up in TELUS' books with the offset to our partner funding. So it will still be a net cash differential. But that's all built into the model when I talked about our model going forward.

是的。因此，Terrion 將為 TELUS 建造未來的塔樓，資金將由我們和我們的合作夥伴提供。因此，存在現金流機會，但由於我們確實對其進行了合併，它將出現在 TELUS 的帳簿中，並抵消我們的合作夥伴資金。因此它仍然會是一個淨現金差額。但當我談到我們未來的模型時，這一切都已融入模型中。

And yes, on the partner planning, we're already using third-party partners in the West in building fiber. We are looking and started the same in the East. And so it would right now be focused on fiber, but it's not limited to, as Darren just highlighted on data centers and other initiatives. So I would say, yes, that was the reference in mind was to fiber, but it is a great relationship going forward and other measures.

是的，在合作夥伴規劃方面，我們已經在利用西方的第三方合作夥伴來建造光纖。我們正在尋找並開始在東方做同樣的事情。因此，現在的重點是光纖，但並不局限於此，正如 Darren 剛才強調的資料中心和其他舉措。所以我想說，是的，我腦海中所想的是關於纖維的，但它與其他措施有著很好的關係。

And can I follow up on that? Just the next thing that comes to mind is how much -- you mentioned, I think, earlier, the $2 billion being devoted to build in the East. Is that a combined number? And is that a 50-50 number with a partner? And lastly, sort of anything you can say about the number of passings that this might be able to generate in the East?

我可以跟進一下嗎？我想到的下一個問題是——我想您之前提到過，有 20 億美元用於在東部進行建造。這是一個總數嗎？與合作夥伴的比例是 50-50 嗎？最後，您能說說這在東部可能產生的傳球次數嗎？

That is a number related to the activity. How many balance sheets support that number remains to be determined. And as it relates to homes passed, I think let's leave that within the competitively sensitive category. And we will show our actuals against the investment prospectively in terms of that program. I think the important thing to highlight is a comment that Zainul has made.

這是一個與活動相關的數字。有多少資產負債表支持這個數字仍有待確定。由於它與已通過的房屋有關，我認為我們將其留在競爭敏感類別中。我們將根據該計劃前瞻性地展示我們的實際投資情況。我認為需要強調的重要一點是 Zainul 所發表的評論。

We will be smart and strategic as it relates to this deployment. We're not coming in just to offer the same old, same old in terms of Internet, but at yet another hollow discount. We're looking to bring value and affordability to customers, but we want to ensure that customers get to enjoy the full portfolio of TELUS services ranging from health and security to smart energy and other ones that we have on the boil.

我們將以明智和戰略性的方式處理這項部署。我們來這裡不只是為了提供一成不變的網路服務，而是為了再一次提供空洞的折扣。我們希望為客戶帶來價值和可負擔性，但我們希望確保客戶能夠享受 TELUS 的全部服務，包括健康和安全、智慧能源以及我們正在開發的其他服務。

And finally, we have an axiom in terms of the economics of our expansion, which is that it is value accretive for the organization. And when we highlight that, I think we've got the track record and the empirical evidence to back it up because if you look at our fiber deployment in the West, it is truly world-leading.

最後，就我們的擴張經濟學而言，我們有一個公理，就是它能為組織帶來價值增值。當我們強調這一點時，我認為我們有記錄和經驗證據來支持這一點，因為如果你看看我們在西方的光纖部署，它確實是世界領先的。

There's not another organization that can match the success that we have realized on that front related to economics, product intensity where we're 3.4 products on a per household basis. What we've been able to achieve on average revenue per home, the lowering of churn, the lowering of cost to serve through truck rolls along the way, it's just tremendous. The penetration rates that we've secured within the communities overall would be a world best result.

在經濟、產品密度方面，沒有其他組織能與我們所取得的成功相比，我們每戶家庭擁有 3.4 種產品。我們在平均每戶收入、客戶流失率的降低、以及透過上門服務降低服務成本方面所取得的成就非常驚人。我們在整個社區內所獲得的普及率將是世界上最好的結果。

So we're bringing that intellectual property to bear, and we're going to live up to the axiom of building value, not just RGUs.

因此，我們要發揮智慧財產權的作用，我們要實踐創造價值的公理，而不僅僅是創造 RGU。

[Kannan Venkat, Barclays].

[巴克萊銀行的 Kannan Venkat]

Darren, maybe a long-term question on the pricing structure within the market itself. When you think about the new to Canada market, it looks like structurally, that's going to be smaller. And then convergence, I mean, just given your own fiber plans and what's going on in the rest of the industry, it feels like everybody is just going to converge with respect to bundles.

達倫，這可能是關於市場本身定價結構的長期問題。當你考慮加拿大新市場時，從結構上看，它的規模會更小。然後是融合，我的意思是，只要給出你自己的光纖計劃和其他行業的情況，感覺每個人都會在捆綁方面融合。

So when you think about the flanker strategy or tiering the market across prepaid flanker and then, of course, the premium brands, does that tiering feel like it's too much for a market? I mean is there an opportunity here to maybe pricing by actually peering the market less? And so any thoughts on that longer term in terms of would be great.

因此，當您考慮側翼策略或將市場分為預付費側翼和高端品牌時，這種分層是否感覺對市場來說太過分了？我的意思是，這裡是否有機會透過減少對市場的關注來定價？因此，從長遠角度考慮這個問題的任何想法都是很好的。

And then secondly, on the balance sheet side, just given what's going on in the industry right now and even if we do have a recovery in the next three or four quarters, it feels like the revenue growth rate we are heading towards is going to be slower than maybe what we saw, say, five years ago. So is 3 times leverage still the right number? Or as industry growth settles at a slightly lower level, should the leverage level drift closer to maybe some of your global peers?

其次，從資產負債表方面來看，考慮到目前行業的情況，即使我們在未來三、四個季度內出現復甦，我們預期的收入成長率也會比五年前慢。那麼 3 倍槓桿仍然是正確的數字嗎？或者，隨著產業成長穩定在略低的水平，槓桿水平是否應該更接近一些全球同業？

Zainul, do you want to take the first part of that question from premium to flanker on that front? And then Doug and I will cover the balance sheet piece later.

Zainul，你想把這個問題的第一部分從高級轉向側翼嗎？然後 Doug 和我稍後會討論資產負債表部分。

That sounds good. Thanks for the question. I think the answer is that it has to be dynamic. And it's not just an ARPU level of sort of delineation across these brands and offers, it's an AMPU level. And I think what we've seen is, as Darren highlighted, rational behavior over the last little while in the market relative to the cost of acquisition, the three parameters I've talked about in terms of the promotional subsidy element, the device financing floor, the rate plans commensurate with sort of the value in those plans.

聽起來很好。謝謝你的提問。我認為答案是它必須是動態的。這不僅是這些品牌和優惠之間的 ARPU 水平劃分，更是 AMPU 水平劃分。我認為，正如達倫所強調的那樣，我們看到的是，過去一段時間內市場相對於收購成本的理性行為，我談到的三個參數是促銷補貼要素、設備融資底線、與這些計劃的價值相稱的費率計劃。

So I think we have to take a dynamic approach consistently and continue to evolve our strategy on an AMPU basis. I also think that when it comes to bundles, it's not just about wireless and wireline, as we've discussed. It's about having other capabilities in the bundle that are delineated to that market demographic. You're certainly correct in saying that as we've seen along with the rational behavior, the sort of immigration trends, again, that might not be forever. So I think that we're going to consistently be dynamic.

因此我認為我們必須始終採取動態的方法並繼續在 AMPU 基礎上發展我們的策略。我還認為，當談到捆綁時，它不僅僅涉及無線和有線，正如我們所討論的那樣。這是關於捆綁產品中具有針對該市場人群的其他功能。您說得完全正確，正如我們所見，伴隨著理性行為，這種移民趨勢可能不會永遠持續下去。所以我認為我們將始終保持活力。

We're going to consistently evaluate the market based on what we think are the right winning strategies to attract the demographic at the right ARPU and AMPU level. And I would say that given that we are seeing some rational -- return to rational behavior, there is opportunity to continue rightsizing what the winning strategies are with what the right service investment and the right promotional investments are for those different segments. If we see that change, we will adapt to that change accordingly.

我們將根據我們認為正確的勝利策略不斷評估市場，以吸引具有適當 ARPU 和 AMPU 水平的受眾。我想說的是，鑑於我們看到了一些理性的行為，回歸理性的行為，我們就有機會繼續調整制勝策略，針對不同的細分市場，制定正確的服務投資和正確的促銷投資。如果我們看到這種變化，我們就會相應地適應這種變化。

In terms of growth, I think we're missing out a lot of elements, like we're taking a singular focus related to wireless, and we're propagating it into the future with some negative assumptions associated with it. So building upon the comments that Zainul just made, I would expect longer-term progression here and a greater level of economic rationality along the way.

在成長方面，我認為我們錯過了很多因素，例如我們只關注無線相關領域，並且帶著一些負面假設將其傳播到未來。因此，基於 Zainul 剛才所作的評論，我預計這裡將取得長期進展，並在此過程中實現更高水準的經濟合理性。

But I think that alone discounts or does not fully value the benefits that we're going to get out of AI and the meaningful impact that, that's going to have on our business from a sales service and efficiency point of view. And I think that's worth reflecting on further.

但我認為，僅憑這一點就無法充分評估我們從人工智慧中獲得的益處，以及從銷售服務和效率的角度來看，人工智慧將對我們的業務產生的重大影響。我認為這值得進一步思考。

The other thing is it leads up the wireline side of the business. And we have a growing and profitable wireline side of our business that is a unique characteristic to TELUS. And again, aided and embedded or underpinned by the TELUS Digital organization.

另一件事是它引領了有線電視業務的發展。我們的有線業務不斷成長且獲利，這是 TELUS 的獨特之處。再次，得到了 TELUS Digital 組織的協助、嵌入或支持。

We have an opportunity for national expansion. It's an attractive market for us to pursue in Ontario and Quebec. I guess it's our version of Ziply if you will, along that particular path. And our track record on fiber deployment is literally world's best. So I think that's a nice growth opportunity.

我們有一個全國擴張的機會。安大略省和魁北克省對我們來說是一個相當吸引人的市場。我想，如果您願意的話，這就是我們版本的 Ziply，沿著那條特定的路徑。我們在光纖部署方面的業績記錄確實是世界上最好的。所以我認為這是一個很好的成長機會。

We're loaded for bear on product differentiation. And I've highlighted this repetitiously on the call, but I think it's our job to squeeze economies of scope out of our fixed broadband infrastructure. But I think these services are attractive to both consumers and small businesses. I think we're continuing to exclusively focus on consumers. And TELUS has as much combined upside on SMB and mid-market as we do on the consumer front, and I see that as being underestimated.

我們已做好充分準備來實現產品差異化。我在電話中反覆強調了這一點，但我認為我們的工作是從固定寬頻基礎設施中榨取範圍經濟。但我認為這些服務對消費者和小型企業都有吸引力。我認為我們將繼續專注於消費者。TELUS 在中小企業和中端市場的綜合優勢與我們在消費者市場的優勢一樣多，我認為這一點被低估了。

And then lastly, we've got some pretty attractive emerging businesses on the health, agriculture, and consumer goods side. And as it relates to 3 times net debt to EBITDA, I guess we could say, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it in the fullness of time.

最後，我們在醫療健康、農業和消費品領域有一些非常有吸引力的新興業務。由於它與 EBITDA 淨債務的 3 倍有關，我想我們可以說，好吧，當我們在適當的時候，我們會解決這個問題。

But just so that you know, we're super scientific in the way that we model it. So it's not just a finger in an air in the air or we look at comps on an international basis. We actually do the science on the Pareto combination of cost of equity and cost of tax affected debt, and we are a tax-paying organization to determine how we can best minimize our weighted average cost of capital.

但您要知道，我們建模的方式非常科學。因此，這不僅僅是空中的一根手指，也不是我們從國際角度來看比較。我們實際上對股權成本和稅收影響債務成本的帕累托組合進行了科學研究，並且我們是一個納稅組織，以確定如何最好地降低我們的加權平均資本成本。

And so 3.0 is not a notional target, 3.0 actually equates to the minimization of our weighted average cost of capital through the Pareto combination of cost of equity and cost of tax-effected debt. So that's a science number, not a pick at a thin air or comp number.

因此 3.0 不是一個名目目標，3.0 實際上等同於透過股權成本和稅收影響債務成本的帕累托組合來最小化我們的加權平均資本成本。所以這是一個科學數字，而不是憑空捏造的數字或計算數字。

And we do that on the science front because we are material capital deployers. And you don't have to look further than impairment test to know how much a 100 bps shift on the WACC means when you're deployers of capital. So we want to get the minimization of the WACC rate. And right now, it's 3 times net debt to EBITDA, and we'll assess that on an annual basis going forward.

我們在科學方面這樣做，因為我們是物質資本的部署者。而且，當您部署資本時，您不需要進行減損測試就能知道 WACC 的 100 個基點變更意味著什麼。因此，我們希望獲得 WACC 利率的最小化。目前，淨債務與 EBITDA 比率為 3 倍，我們將在未來每年對其進行評估。

Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. Please feel free to reach out to the IR team with any follow-ups. And for those of you in Canada, we wish you a nice long weekend.

感謝大家今天加入我們。如有任何後續事宜，請隨時聯絡 IR 團隊。對於加拿大的各位，我們祝福你們度過一個愉快的長週末。

This concludes the TELUS 2025 Q2 earnings release call. Thank you for your participation, and have a nice day.

TELUS 2025 年第二季財報發布電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與，祝您有愉快的一天。