Telus Corp (TU) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day.

再會。

Welcome to TELUS's 2024 Q4 earnings conference call.

歡迎參加 TELUS 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。

I'd like to introduce your speaker, Mr. Robert Mitchell.

我想介紹您的演講者羅伯特·米切爾先生。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Hello, everyone.

大家好。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

Our fourth-quarter 2024 results news release, MD&A, financial statements, and detailed supplemental investor information were posted to our website earlier this morning.

我們的 2024 年第四季業績新聞稿、MD&A、財務報表和詳細的補充投資者資訊已於今天早上發佈到我們的網站上。

On our call today, we will begin with remarks by Darren and Doug.

在今天的電話會議中，我們將首先聽取 Darren 和 Doug 的演講。

In the Q&A portion, we will be joined by Zainul, Navin, Jason, and Tobias.

在問答環節，Zainul、Navin、Jason 和 Tobias 將加入我們。

Briefly, prepared remarks, slides and answers to questions contain forward-looking statements.

簡而言之，準備好的評論、投影片和問題的答案包含前瞻性的陳述。

Actual results could vary from these statements.

實際結果可能與這些陳述不同。

The assumptions on which they are based and the material risks that could cause them to differ are outlined in our public filings with Securities Commissions in Canada and the US, including fourth-quarter and annual 2024 MD&A.

我們向加拿大和美國證券委員會提交的公開文件中概述了它們所依據的假設以及可能導致它們出現差異的重大風險，包括 2024 年第四季和年度 MD&A。

With that, over to you, Darren.

現在，就交給你了，達倫。

Thanks,

謝謝，

[Ragnar].

[拉格納爾]。

Hello, everyone.

大家好。

And in the fourth quarter and for 2024, our team's relentless pursuit of operational excellence continue to differentiate the TELUS organization, driving significant customer growth, and robust financial results.

在第四季和 2024 年，我們團隊對卓越營運的不懈追求將繼續使 TELUS 組織脫穎而出，推動客戶大幅成長和財務表現強勁。

Through our premier asset portfolio and unwavering commitment to cost efficiency, we delivered strong profitable growth to close out 2024, momentum that we intend to build upon in 2025 and beyond.

透過我們一流的資產組合和對成本效率的堅定承諾，我們在 2024 年底實現了強勁的盈利增長，我們打算在 2025 年及以後繼續保持這一勢頭。

Our focus is on margin accretive customer expansion, globally leading broadband networks, and a customer-centric culture culminated in our third consecutive year of surpassing 1 million mobility and fixed customer additions.

我們專注於增加利潤的客戶擴張、全球領先的寬頻網路和以客戶為中心的文化，最終使我們連續第三年增加超過 100 萬名行動和固定客戶。

Once again, TELUS led the industry with more than 1.2 million telecom net new customer additions in 2024.

TELUS 再次領先產業，2024 年新增電信淨客戶超過 120 萬人。

This performance is a testament to our unmatched bundled product offerings across mobile and home.

這一表現證明了我們在行動和家庭領域無與倫比的捆綁產品供應。

Indeed, our team's passion for delivering customer service excellence, again, contributed the continued strong loyalty across our key product lines.

事實上，我們團隊對提供卓越客戶服務的熱情再次為我們主要產品線的持續強烈忠誠度做出了貢獻。

Notably, post-paid mobile phone churn of 0.99% for the full year marks the 11th consecutive year at less than 1%.

值得注意的是，全年後付費手機用戶流失率為0.99%，這是連續第11年低於1%。

Despite a challenging competitive, regulatory, and macroeconomic landscape, TELUS drove 5.5% [TTech] EBITDA growth for 2024, meeting the target range that we set at the beginning of 2024.

儘管面臨嚴峻的競爭、監管和宏觀經濟形勢，TELUS 仍實現了 2024 年 5.5% [TTech] EBITDA 成長，達到了我們在 2024 年初設定的目標範圍。

This included strong TTech EBITDA growth of 7% in the fourth quarter.

其中包括第四季 TTech EBITDA 強勁成長 7%。

Our team once again achieved industry best total customer telecom net additions of 328,000 for the quarter.

本季我們的團隊再次實現了業界最佳的電信客戶淨增總數 328,000。

In mobile, we drove leading total net additions of 264,000, including healthy mobile phone net additions of 70,000 and strong connected device net additions of 194,000.

在行動領域，我們推動了領先的總淨增量 264,000，其中包括 70,000 健康的行動電話淨增量和 194,000 強勁的連網設備淨增量。

This was supported by our ongoing intense focus on economic, margin accretive customer growth, which is evidenced by our consistent industry-leading lifetime revenue, buttressed by our industry best churn, and superior customer experience.

這是由於我們持續高度關注經濟和利潤成長的客戶成長，這體現在我們始終保持業界領先的終身收入、業界最佳的客戶流失率和卓越的客戶體驗。

Let's turn now and take a look at our wireline business.

現在我們來看看我們的有線業務。

TELUS delivered another quarter of industry-leading total wireline customer growth, including industry-best fourth-quarter internet net additions of 37,000.

TELUS 本季的有線客戶總數成長再次領先業界，其中第四季網路客戶淨增 37,000 戶，為業界最佳。

Notably, this drove industry-leading fixed data services revenue growth of 3.5%.

值得注意的是，這推動了業界領先的固定數據服務收入成長3.5％。

Furthermore, in the fourth quarter, we drove continued strong momentum in our unique and highly differentiated data-centric growth businesses.

此外，在第四季度，我們獨特、高度差異化的以數據為中心的成長業務持續保持強勁勢頭。

Our TELUS Health team achieved accelerated revenue growth in the quarter of 10%, alongside 20% growth in its EBITDA contribution.

我們的 TELUS Health 團隊在本季度實現了 10% 的營收成長，同時 EBITDA 貢獻實現了 20% 的成長。

Since acquiring LifeWorks in 2022, we've achieved $355 million in combined annualized synergies, including $294 million in cost synergies and $61 million in cross-selling.

自 2022 年收購 LifeWorks 以來，我們實現了 3.55 億美元的綜合年化協同效應，其中包括 2.94 億美元的成本協同效應和 6,100 萬美元的交叉銷售效應。

Importantly, we remain on track to deliver our goal of $427 million by year-end.

重要的是，我們仍有望在年底前實現 4.27 億美元的目標。

Moreover, we drove a 10% year-over-year increase in global lives covered to over 76 million, a 16% increase in virtual care members, and a 7% increase in digital health transactions.

此外，我們推動全球覆蓋率較去年同期成長 10%，達到 7,600 多萬人，虛擬照護成員數量成長 16%，數位健康交易數量成長 7%。

Likewise, our team achieved robust performance in TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods with revenue growth of 16% on the back of eight consecutive quarters of record sales performance, driving increasing profitability and margin contributions.

同樣，我們的團隊在 TELUS 農業和消費品領域也取得了強勁表現，在連續八個季度創下創紀錄的銷售業績的帶動下，收入增長了 16%，推動了盈利能力和利潤貢獻的提高。

We look forward to continuing the momentum in these emerging growth areas in 2025 and beyond.

我們期待在 2025 年及以後繼續保持這些新興成長領域的良好勢頭。

The strategic investments that we've made in our leading broadband networks alongside our customer experience leadership underpin the continued advancement and sustainability of our strong financial and operational performance.

我們對領先的寬頻網路以及客戶體驗領導力所做的策略性投資鞏固了我們強勁的財務和營運業績的持續進步和可持續性。

This gives us confidence in the robust outlook for consistent long-term profitable growth and our ability to deliver on the annual targets that we've set out for 2025.

這使我們對長期持續獲利成長的強勁前景以及實現 2025 年設定的年度目標的能力充滿信心。

These include industry-leading TTech operating revenue and adjusted EBITDA growth of up to 4% and 5%, respectively, and consolidated free cash flow of approximately $2.15 billion, supported by continued moderated capital expenditures of approximately $2.5 billion, representing an industry best capital intensity.

這些包括業界領先的 TTech 營業收入和調整後 EBITDA 成長分別高達 4% 和 5%，以及約 21.5 億美元的綜合自由現金流，並由持續適度的約 25 億美元資本支出支持，代表著業界最佳的資本密集度。

Our team's track record for execution excellence alongside an attractive long-term free cash flow growth outlook underpin our sustainable and leading multi-year dividend growth program now in its 15th year.

我們團隊卓越的執行記錄以及具有吸引力的長期自由現金流增長前景支撐了我們可持續且領先的多年期股息增長計劃，該計劃現已進入第 15 個年頭。

Needless to say, we remain disappointed in our share price performance over the past year in spite of significantly outperforming the majority of our national and global peers across a wide range of operational and financial metrics.

毋庸置疑，儘管我們在多項營運和財務指標上的表現遠優於大多數國內和全球同行，但我們對過去一年的股價表現仍然感到失望。

This is frustrating for our management team in the context of our robust and profitable customer growth, which drove leading fourth quarter telecom EBITDA growth of 7% and 5.5% for the year, not to mention our dividend yield of 8%, coupled with TELUS's potent defensive characteristics in a volatile macroeconomic environment.

在我們的客戶業務強勁且獲利成長的背景下，這讓我們的管理團隊感到沮喪，這推動了第四季度電信 EBITDA 成長 7%，全年成長 5.5%，更不用說我們的股息殖利率達到 8%，再加上 TELUS 在動蕩的宏觀經濟環境中強大的防禦性。

Furthermore, our leading and differentiated asset mix underpins the significant value that we have created, including our pervasive PureFibre network with world-best KPIs as reflected in recent US fiber transactions.

此外，我們領先且差異化的資產組合支撐了我們創造的巨大價值，包括我們遍布各地的 PureFibre 網絡，其擁有世界最佳的 KPI，這在最近的美國光纖交易中有所體現。

It includes our differentiated TELUS Health and TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods businesses with their attractive growth and valuation multiple characteristics.

它包括我們差異化的 TELUS Health 和 TELUS Agriculture 和消費品業務，具有具有吸引力的成長和估值多重特徵。

And it includes the best telecom asset in the business with a reliable execution track record.

其中包括業內最優質電信資產以及可靠的執行記錄。

Going forward, this management team remains laser-focused on building on the strong operational and financial performance momentum with which we exited 2024.

展望未來，該管理團隊將繼續專注於鞏固我們在 2024 年取得的強勁營運和財務業績勢頭。

We remain focused on achieving our robust targets for 2025, and we remain focused on delivering sustainable free cash flow expansion year in and year out for the foreseeable future.

我們仍專注於實現 2025 年的宏偉目標，並仍專注於在可預見的未來年復一年地實現可持續的自由現金流增長。

This is buttressed by one of the lowest capital intensity ratios globally, alongside compelling monetization opportunities that we anticipate supporting meaningful deleveraging, also a key area of focus for 2025 and beyond.

這是由於我們的資本密集度比率是全球最低之一，同時我們也擁有引人注目的貨幣化機會，我們預計這些機會將支持有意義的去槓桿，這也是 2025 年及以後關注的關鍵領域。

TELUS is targeting to achieve a net debt-to-EBITDA ratio of approximately 3 times in 2027 in conjunction with the contemporaneous removal of the discounted dividend reinvestment plan preceded by a ratcheting down of the plan in 2026.

TELUS 的目標是在 2027 年實現淨債務與 EBITDA 比率約為 3 倍，同時取消折扣股息再投資計劃，並在 2026 年逐步縮減該計劃。

In May, per our established cycle, we will provide an update on our dividend growth program for 2026 through 2028 and, more generally, for the return of capital to our shareholders.

5 月份，根據我們既定的周期，我們將更新 2026 年至 2028 年的股息成長計劃，以及更廣泛地說，向股東提供資本回報計劃。

In closing, I'd like to express my gratitude to our team for their efforts, their expertise, and frankly, in the environment, their grit in executing on our consistent winning strategy to meet our commitments to all of our stakeholders.

最後，我要對我們團隊的努力、專業知識以及坦率地說在環境中的勇氣表示感謝，感謝他們執行我們一貫的成功策略，履行我們對所有利害關係人的承諾。

And on that note, let me turn the call over now to Uncle Doug.

關於這一點，現在讓我把電話轉給道格叔叔。

Thank you, Darren, and hi, everyone.

謝謝你，Darren，大家好。

Mobile network revenue was flat as profitable mobile loading and connected device editions were offset by lower mobile phone ARPU, which declined 3.6%.

行動網路收入持平，因為盈利的行動加載和連接設備版本被較低的手機 ARPU 所抵消，後者下降了 3.6%。

The decline in ARPU, although reflective of the ongoing competitive pressures in the market, remained relatively stable as compared to the previous few quarters.

儘管ARPU值的下降反映了市場持續的競爭壓力，但與前幾季相比仍然相對穩定。

Double digit IoT revenue growth partially mitigated this impact.

兩位數的物聯網收入成長部分緩解了這種影響。

Fixed data services revenue grew 3.5% year over year, driven by strong customer growth across our leading product portfolio of pure fiber internet, TV, security, and home automation, as well as B2B growth.

固定資料服務營收年增 3.5%，這得益於我們領先的純光纖網路、電視、安全和家庭自動化產品組合的客戶強勁成長以及 B2B 成長。

At the segment level, TTech operating revenues were up 4.1%, driven primarily by mobile equipment, fixed data services, as well as strong growth in health and agriculture, as Darren highlighted.

從分部層級來看，TTech 的營業收入成長了 4.1%，主要得益於行動裝置、固定數據服務以及醫療和農業領域的強勁成長，Darren 強調。

Other income of $52 million in the quarter increased by $37 million over last year, largely due to gains recognized on our real estate and copper monetization programs.

本季其他收入為 5,200 萬美元，較去年同期增加 3,700 萬美元，這主要歸功於我們的房地產和銅貨幣化計劃實現的收益。

We anticipate these programs to continue in 2025 as we execute against these initiatives.

我們預計這些計劃將在 2025 年繼續執行，並將實施這些措施。

Notably, TTech adjusted EBITDA increased by 7% in the fourth quarter and 5.5% for the full year, achieving the low end of our target range alongside margin expansion of 110 basis points to 38.2%, demonstrating unparalleled track record of execution excellence in a highly dynamic operating environment.

值得注意的是，TTech 調整後的 EBITDA 在第四季度增長了 7%，全年增長了 5.5%，達到了我們目標範圍的低端，同時利潤率擴大了 110 個基點，達到 38.2%，展現了在高度動態的運營環境中無與倫比的卓越執行記錄。

These results were driven by our consistent emphasis on profitable revenue growth, our customer growth, and the benefits from our ongoing focus on cost efficiency and effectiveness, gains from our real estate and copper monetization programs as well as increasing margin contribution from TELUS Health and TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods.

這些業績的推動因素包括我們一貫強調獲利性收入成長、客戶成長、持續關注成本效率和效益、房地產和銅貨幣化計劃帶來的收益以及 TELUS Health 和 TELUS 農業和消費品帶來的利潤貢獻不斷增加。

Looking at our TELUS Digital segment, operating revenues and adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter continued to reflect stabilization and performance, both improving on a sequential quarterly basis.

縱觀我們的 TELUS Digital 部門，第四季度的營業收入和調整後 EBITDA 繼續體現出穩定和業績，均比上個季度有所改善。

The team continues to manage their cost structure while focusing on revenue generation.

該團隊在專注於創造收入的同時繼續管理其成本結構。

Please refer to TELUS Digital's quarterly conference call earlier today.

請參閱今天早些時候的 TELUS Digital 季度電話會議。

On a consolidated basis, net income increased by 3.2% year over year, while basic EPS was higher by 20%.

合併後，淨收入年增3.2%，基本每股收益成長20%。

On an adjusted basis, net income and EPS were higher by 11% and 4.2%, respectively.

經調整後，淨收入和每股盈餘分別成長 11% 和 4.2%。

This growth was driven by the after-tax impacts of higher operating income, partially offset by higher financing costs, mainly reflecting the impact of unrealized changes in the forward element of our virtual power purchase agreements as well as higher interest costs associated with our increased long-term debt and higher interest rates.

這一成長主要得益於更高營業收入的稅後影響，但被更高的融資成本部分抵消，主要反映了我們虛擬購電協議中遠期要素未實現變化的影響，以及與我們增加的長期債務和更高的利率相關的更高利息成本的影響。

For the full year, CapEx, excluding real estate, declined by $294 million or 11%, driven by our planned slowdown of our fiber and wireless asset builds as we approach their completions.

全年資本支出（不包括房地產）下降了 2.94 億美元，降幅為 11%，因為我們計劃在光纖和無線資產建設接近完工時放緩建設速度。

Consolidated capital intensity of 12% was down 200 basis points year over last year.

綜合資本密集度為12%，較去年同期下降200個基點。

For the full year, free cash flow of approximately $2 billion came in slightly below our target of $2.1 billion.

全年自由現金流約為 20 億美元，略低於我們的 21 億美元的目標。

This was primarily due to higher-than-expected cash impact effects of contract assets and device financing associated with the higher contracted devices in Q4 as promotions were heavily focused on device subsidies throughout Black Friday and the holiday selling period.

這主要是由於第四季度合約設備數量增加導致合約資產和設備融資的現金影響效應高於預期，因為黑色星期五和假日銷售期間的促銷活動主要集中在設備補貼上。

Free cash flow was also impacted by slightly higher restructuring from our ongoing cost efficiency programs.

我們正在進行的成本效率計劃中略高的重組也對自由現金流產生了影響。

These factors were partially offset by lower capital expenditures.

這些因素被較低的資本支出部分抵銷。

Looking ahead, our financial targets for 2025 build off our leading growth profile and operating execution excellence, our financial targets include TTech operating revenue growth of 2% to 4% and TTech adjusted EBITDA growth of 3% to 5%.

展望未來，我們 2025 年的財務目標以我們領先的成長狀況和卓越的營運執行為基礎，我們的財務目標包括 TTech 營業收入成長 2% 至 4% 以及 TTech 調整後 EBITDA 成長 3% 至 5%。

Consolidated capital expenditures, excluding real estate, are targeted to remain at approximately $2.5 billion.

不包括房地產的綜合資本支出目標仍為約 25 億美元。

We also set aside $100 million in capital for real estate development initiatives similar to 2024.

我們也撥出 1 億美元資金用於類似 2024 年的房地產開發計畫。

Lastly, free cash flow for 2025 is forecasted to be approximately $2.15 billion, driven by higher EBITDA and disciplined capital management.

最後，在更高的 EBITDA 和嚴格的資本管理的推動下，預計 2025 年的自由現金流將達到約 21.5 億美元。

Our outlook for free cash flow includes an increase to cash taxes due to higher installments related to higher taxable income.

我們對自由現金流的展望包括因應稅收入增加導致分期付款增加而導致的現金稅增加。

Additionally, there will be a catch-up tax payment in 2025 related to 2024 for the increase on our earnings before tax as well as a step down in the amount of tax depreciation TELUS can claim under the accelerated investment incentive program.

此外，2025 年將補繳與 2024 年相關的稅款，以增加我們的稅前收益，並減少 TELUS 在加速投資獎勵計畫下可以申請的稅收折舊金額。

For 2025, we also anticipate slightly higher interest paid.

到 2025 年，我們預計支付的利息也會略有增加。

The effects of asset -- sorry, contract assets and device financing as well as cash restructuring payments, both anticipated to be flat in 2024.

資產的影響——抱歉，合約資產和設備融資以及現金重組支付，預計在 2024 年都將持平。

A detailed list of our assumptions for 2025 are set out in our annual MD&A released today.

我們今天發布的年度 MD&A 中列出了我們對 2025 年的詳細假設清單。

As it relates to our balance sheet, the average term to maturity of our long-term debt stands at over 10 years, and our average cost of debt is 4.37%.

與我們的資產負債表相關，我們的長期債務平均到期期限超過 10 年，平均債務成本為 4.37%。

Our leverage ratio at the end of 2024 is at 3.9 times, and we remain committed to delevering our balance sheet with the execution of the plan in place towards a net debt-to-EBITDA leverage of approximately 3 times in 2027.

我們的槓桿率為 2024 年底的 3.9 倍，我們仍致力於透過執行現有計劃來降低資產負債表中的槓桿率，以實現 2027 年淨債務與 EBITDA 槓桿率達到約 3 倍的目標。

The plan includes EBITDA growth and cash flow expansion alongside a reducing capital intensity as well as the continuing of programs such as real estate and copper initiatives, partner opportunities within our growth businesses, divestiture of non-core assets and servicing value in our infrastructure where appropriate.

該計劃包括 EBITDA 成長和現金流擴大，同時降低資本強度，以及繼續實施房地產和銅計劃等項目、成長業務中的合作夥伴機會、非核心資產的剝離以及在適當情況下為我們基礎設施提供服務價值。

Furthermore, as Darren outlined, we expect to achieve this target leverage ratio alongside our plans to reduce the discount associated with our dividend reinvestment plan in 2026 with the intention of removing it in 2027.

此外，正如 Darren 所概述的，我們預計實現這一目標槓桿率，同時計劃在 2026 年減少與股息再投資計劃相關的折扣，併計劃在 2027 年取消該折扣。

Overall, we look forward to the new year.

總的來說，我們對新的一年充滿期待。

We remain highly confident in our ability to build on a track record of execution excellence, underpinned by our leading asset mix, and resilient business strategy.

我們對自己的能力充滿信心，這得益於我們領先的資產組合和有彈性的業務策略，能夠創造卓越的執行記錄。

This will be supported by our focus on delevering as we ensure we are well equipped to deliver strong, sustainable growth into the future.

我們對去槓桿的重視將支持這一目標，因為我們確保我們有能力在未來實現強勁、可持續的成長。

With that, back to you, Robert.

現在回到你身上，羅伯特。

Carl, we're ready for questions, please.

卡爾，我們已經準備好回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指令）

Jerome Dubreuil, Desjardins.

傑羅姆‧杜布雷伊 (Jerome Dubreuil)，德雅爾丹 (Desjardins)。

Hey.

嘿。

Thanks for taking my questions.

感謝您回答我的問題。

A couple for me.

對我來說是一對。

First topic is on your target of 3 times leverage in 2027.

第一個主題是關於您在 2027 年實現 3 倍槓桿的目標。

I think that was very interesting.

我認為那非常有趣。

How much asset divestiture does that include?

這其中包括多少資產剝離？

And can we infer from this that you are happy with your current portfolio of assets going forward?

由此我們是否可以推斷，您對目前的資產組合未來趨勢感到滿意？

And then the second topic for me, in light of the high dividend yield, if you can maybe elaborate on the merits of having a long-term dividend plan in general.

然後對我來說第二個主題是，鑑於高股息收益率，您是否可以詳細說明製定長期股息計劃的優點。

The competitive environment evolves, investment opportunities arise and interest rate changes in three years -- just seems like a very long time.

競爭環境不斷發展，投資機會不斷湧現，三年內的利率也在不斷變化——這似乎是一段很長的時間。

So if you can talk about this.

如果你可以談論這個。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

I'll start.

我先開始。

So on the assets going forward, so that question, we have a placeholder in our plan.

因此，關於未來的資產，這個問題，我們的計劃中有一個佔位符。

We've been open on that of approximately $500 million, and that is included in our three-year plan going forward that we will continue to do appropriate divestitures as we seem appropriate -- or acquisitions as we seem appropriate.

我們已公開表示約為 5 億美元，這筆資金包含在我們的未來三年計劃中，我們將在適當的時候繼續進行適當的資產剝離，或在適當的時候進行收購。

On the delevering side of assets, as highlighted, we're obviously leveraging off our free cash flow and capital intensity reductions.

正如所強調的，在資產去槓桿方面，我們顯然正在利用自由現金流和資本密集度的降低。

We have a three-year plan that includes the divestiture of some of the non-core assets.

我們有一個三年計劃，其中包括剝離一些非核心資產。

We haven't disclosed exactly the amount with that.

我們尚未透露具體金額。

But I think with the initiatives over the next little bit, you'll see some coming to fruition within 2025.

但我認為，透過接下來一段時間的舉措，你會看到一些舉措在 2025 年取得成果。

And we'll continue to update on our progression on that, but I'm not going to give an exact number on those divestitures today.

我們將繼續更新這方面的進展，但今天我不會給出這些資產剝離的具體數字。

And on the growth plan, Darren, I'll pass it back to you.

關於成長計劃，達倫，我會把它交還給你。

So I think over the past 15 years, the dividend growth model has served investors extremely well at this organization.

所以我認為在過去的 15 年裡，股息成長模式為該組織的投資者提供了極好的服務。

Secondly, I think we've been pretty clear in respect of the pecking order for our capital allocation.

其次，我認為我們對資本配置的優先順序已經非常清楚了。

Priority number one for the benefit of all securities holders is to drive improvements in our balance sheet.

為了所有證券持有人的利益，首要任務就是推動我們的資產負債表的改善。

And you've heard us this morning come out with a public target in that regard and ancillary considerations around it, including ratcheting down and removing the [DRIP] along the way.

大家已經聽到了我們今天早上提出的有關這方面的公共目標以及相關附帶考慮，包括逐步降低和取消 [DRIP]。

We think we've got the latitude to continue to invest prudently in the growth of the business.

我們認為我們有足夠的能力繼續審慎地投資於業務成長。

And then thirdly, to return cash to shareholders were the primary but not the exclusive vehicle has been our dividend growth model.

第三，向股東返還現金是我們的股息成長模式的主要但不是唯一的方式。

When I look at the future prospects of this organization from EBITDA growth to operating efficiency to the emerging growth opportunities within Health and TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods, when I look at a capital appetite that's moderating with a goal to get down to a CapEx intensity level of circa 10%, I foresee a very strong and sustainable free cash flow story for this organization prospectively.

當我從 EBITDA 成長到營運效率，再到醫療、TELUS 農業和消費品領域中新興的成長機會來審視該組織的未來前景時，我看到其資本需求正在減緩，目標是將資本支出強度水平降至約 10%，我預見到該組織未來的自由現金流情況將非常強勁且可持續。

And that strong free cash flow generation on that longitudinal basis with that parameter of sustainability supports the affordability of the dividend growth model, both in terms of magnitude and longevity.

而且，在可持續性參數的長期基礎上強勁的自由現金流產生支持了股息成長模式的可負擔性，無論從規模或壽命來看。

Having said that, as I have said over and over and over again, the dividend remains the quarterly providence of the Board to adjudicate upon factoring in multiple considerations.

話雖如此，正如我一再說過的，股息仍然是董事會在考慮多種因素後按季度裁定的決定。

And if there is undue volatility of some sort, we always have that lever to be adjusted smartly, appropriately according to those conditions.

如果出現某種過度波動，我們總是可以根據情況，明智、適當地調整槓桿。

But when I normalize for anomalies of that nature, I think the growth trajectory of this organization at the cash flow level for the reasons that I've just cited supports the type of continuity as it relates to returning cash to shareholders in a fashion that's both meaningful and differentiated from our peer group.

但是，當我對這種性質的異常進行正常化時，我認為，出於我剛才提到的原因，該組織在現金流層面的成長軌跡支持這種連續性，因為它涉及以有意義且與同行有區別的方式向股東返還現金。

Carl, next question, please.

卡爾，請問下一個問題。

Maher Yaghi, Scotiabank.

加拿大豐業銀行的 Maher Yaghi。

Great.

偉大的。

Thank you for taking my question.

感謝您回答我的問題。

Good morning.

早安.

First, I would like to ask you on your fixed data services and fixed service revenue -- service revenue in general.

首先，我想問一下你們的固定數據服務和固定服務收入——整體服務收入的情況。

This is the second quarter that we see an acceleration in growth on both metrics, quite a feat, I see, in the current environment.

這是我們看到兩個指標都出現成長加速的第二季度，我認為，在當前環境下，這是一項了不起的成就。

Can you discuss the underlying KPIs that is supporting this improvement?

您能討論一下支持這項改進的根本 KPI 嗎？

And it seems to me it's coming from pricing and customer intensity.

在我看來，這是由於定價和客戶強度造成的。

Can you confirm that?

你能否證實？

And is this -- when you look at the pricing in general, can you comment a little bit about the pricing in your marketplace?

這是——當您總體看一下定價時，您能否對您所在市場的定價發表一些評論？

Thank you.

謝謝。

I don't think it's quite a feat.

我認為這不算什麼壯舉。

I think it's a satisfactory achievement.

我認為這是一個令人滿意的成績。

And Zainul, why don't you speak to your satisfactory achievement?

那麼 Zainul，為什麼不談談你令人滿意的成就呢？

Always striving for better.

永遠追求更好。

So I think it's a great question.

所以我認為這是一個很好的問題。

I think that what you should see from our fixed data growth is that, first of all, it is based on a foundation of volume and significant quarter-over-quarter, year-over-year growth in our fixed customer base.

我認為，從我們的固定數據成長中您應該看到，首先，它建立在數量基礎以及我們固定客戶群的環比、同比增長顯著的基礎上。

The second thing that I would highlight is that we're always driving for profitable growth across our regions.

我要強調的第二件事是，我們始終致力於實現各地區的獲利成長。

And so while we have access to new markets and territories, we're always going to do that in a profitable way.

因此，當我們能夠進入新市場和新地區時，我們總是會以有利可圖的方式來實現這一點。

So that's the volume side.

這就是音量方面。

The other piece that's very important is that we have a diversified and growing portfolio of services that are dependent and driving be fixed growth.

另一個非常重要的因素是，我們擁有多樣化且不斷增長的服務組合，這些服務依賴並推動固定成長。

And then I think it's really important to look at the characteristics that Darren alluded to on the fiber side with respect to the percentage of customers that are taking higher speeds and continue to be pushed up the speed curve and want to take those higher levels of the portfolio that we offer as well as the product intensity that we offer in terms of the incremental products and services.

然後，我認為真正重要的是看達倫提到的光纖方面的特徵，關於採用更高速度並繼續提高速度曲線的客戶百分比，以及希望採用我們提供的更高水平的產品組合的客戶百分比，以及我們在增量產品和服務方面提供的產品強度。

So we have a significant opportunity to continue growing that market.

因此，我們有很大機會繼續擴大該市場。

And we are seeing a strong take rate of our services over time.

隨著時間的推移，我們看到我們的服務採用率不斷攀升。

And of course, we're going to be supporting the idea that as we grow and ensure that we provide better reliability, better capacity of our networks that the pricing dynamic keeps pace with us.

當然，我們將支持這樣的想法，隨著我們的成長，確保我們提供更好的可靠性、更好的網路容量，價格動態與我們保持同步。

So those are all the kinds of things that we will look to.

這些都是我們要關注的事情。

I think over time as well, when you look at -- there are some policy and other elements in terms of our pricing strategy that still have accretion opportunity for us, and we're going to continue to be mining those.

我認為隨著時間的推移，你會發現，我們的定價策略方面的一些政策和其他因素仍然為我們帶來增值機會，我們將繼續挖掘這些機會。

So I think our overall strategy is going to be product diversification and growth, and we're always going to seek that profitably, and you see that in our results.

因此，我認為我們的整體策略是產品多樣化和成長，我們始終致力於尋求獲利，您可以從我們的業績中看到這一點。

One of the areas where we've again delivered differentiated results on this exact front is within the B2B side of our business.

我們在這方面再次取得差異化成果的領域之一是我們的B2B業務。

Navin, would you please provide a short top-up to Zainul's excellent comments?

Navin，您能否對 Zainul 的精彩評論做一點簡短的補充？

Yeah, for sure, Darren.

是的，當然了，達倫。

And yeah, just as a top-up to Zainul's comments, we're seeing very strong volume growth and growth of share on the fixed data services side.

是的，就像 Zainul 評論的補充一樣，我們看到固定數據服務的數量增長和份額增長非常強勁。

And quite frankly, in B2B and specifically SMB, we had room to grow share in our ILEC territory and obviously, the opportunity in our non-ILEC Eastern territories.

坦白說，在 B2B 和特別是 SMB 領域，我們在 ILEC 領域的份額還有成長空間，而且顯然在非 ILEC 東部地區也有機會。

So that is an area that we've been very focused on and have seen good success in terms of driving good volume and market share penetration.

因此，這是我們一直非常關注的領域，並且在推動銷售和市場份額滲透方面取得了良好的成功。

We've also -- have a good opportunity that we've made progress on, but still have lots more to go in terms of product intensity, especially in the SMB space, and we'll continue to focus on that.

我們也有一個很好的機會，我們已經取得了進展，但在產品強度方面還有很大的提升空間，特別是在中小企業領域，我們將繼續關注這一點。

And then lastly, we continue to look at our product depth and breadth and look to drive product expansion that then also drives improved revenue.

最後，我們將繼續關注產品的深度和廣度，並尋求推動產品擴張，從而提高收入。

So back to you, Darren.

那麼回到你這裡，達倫。

Next question please, Carl.

請回答下一個問題，卡爾。

Stephanie Price, CIBC.

加拿大帝國商業銀行 (CIBC) 的 Stephanie Price。

Good morning.

早安.

On the DRIP removal, can you talk a little bit about how you're thinking about the payout ratio by 2027, excluding the DRIP?

關於取消 DRIP，您能否談談您如何考慮到 2027 年不包括 DRIP 的派息率？

And then maybe you can talk more broadly about kind of that term ratcheting down the DRIP in 2026 and what that implies in terms of magnitude?

然後，也許您可以更廣泛地談談 2026 年 DRIP 降低這個術語的含義，以及從量級上來說這意味著什麼？

Yeah.

是的。

So we expect our ratio to be within our payout ratio that we have actually put out.

因此，我們預計我們的比率將在我們實際公佈的派息率範圍內。

So that up to 75%, 50% to 75% -- or sorry, 60% to 75%.

因此最高可達 75%，即 50% 到 75%——或抱歉，60% 到 75%。

That ratio is one we'd expect to be in in 2027, even with all the moving parts that we've just talked about.

即使有我們剛剛談到的所有變動因素，我們預計 2027 年的比例仍將達到這一水準。

And in terms of the 2026 ratchet down component, we've not provided that specificity.

關於 2026 年的遞減部分，我們尚未提供具體資訊。

We will do so in May.

我們將在五月這樣做。

But I think a good operating assumption would be that we would make half a step in the ultimate direction that we want to achieve in 2027.

但我認為一個好的營運假設是，我們將朝著我們希望在 2027 年實現的最終方向邁出半步。

So a move halfway there, I think, is a good modeling assumption.

因此，我認為，半程行動是一個很好的建模假設。

Perfect, thank you.

非常好，謝謝。

And then, Zainul, you mentioned in the answer to the last question about moving into new territories in fixed data in a profitable way.

然後，Zainul，您在回答最後一個問題時提到以盈利的方式進入固定數據的新領域。

Just curious if you can expand a little bit on the move into the Ontario internet market, what the strategy is there, and what you're seeing so far in terms of uptake?

我只是好奇您是否可以稍微擴展一下安大略省互聯網市場的舉措，那裡的策略是什麼，以及您目前看到的吸收情況如何？

Sure, Stephanie.

當然，史蒂芬妮。

So I think the key thing is that it's not a new move, right?

所以我認為關鍵是這不是新舉措，對嗎？

So we have been acquiring assets and making sure that we look at the market in terms of what the customer behavior and customer desires are.

因此，我們一直在收購資產，並確保從客戶行為和客戶需求的角度看待市場。

We've had Koodo Internet in market for a period of time.

Koodo Internet 已經在市場上銷售一段時間了。

And we're seeing good bifurcation in terms of product intensity from a Koodo Internet perspective in terms of the take rate for that demographic of the market.

從 Koodo Internet 的角度來看，就市場人口統計而言，產品強度出現了良好的分叉。

And when we bundle in elements like Stream+ and other offers, there's a really great value proposition for our customers there.

當我們將 Stream+ 等元素與其他優惠捆綁在一起時，這對我們的客戶來說是一個真正巨大的價值主張。

And I think that as it relates to PureFibre Internet, this is a marathon.

我認為，就 PureFibre 網路而言，這是一場馬拉松。

It's not a sprint.

這不是短跑。

We've always talked about smart economics and leveraging new products.

我們一直在談論智慧經濟學和利用新產品。

And so we have areas where we have consumers that are taking our security services that want our view and our responsibility and reliability on their WiFi and their internet.

因此，在一些地區，我們的消費者使用我們的安全服務，他們希望我們能對他們的 WiFi 和網路負責、信賴我們。

And so those are the kinds of areas that we're going to grow in profitably where we can provide a value-added service and an end-to-end opportunity for our customers to experience both our wireless, wireline, and our value-added product.

所以這些都是我們將要實現獲利成長的領域，我們可以提供增值服務和端到端的機會，讓我們的客戶體驗我們的無線、有線和增值產品。

So when we look at this, we have to look at it from that lens.

因此，當我們看待這個問題時，我們必須從這個角度來看。

And we're not running to the market and doing dilutive offers, but we're really finding the niches where our customers want those bundles and products and growing profitably from that perspective.

我們不會急於進入市場並提出稀釋性的報價，而是真正找到客戶需要的那些捆綁產品和產品的利基市場，並從這個角度實現盈利增長。

Question please, Carl.

請問一下，卡爾。

Drew McReynolds, RBC.

德魯·麥克雷諾茲，RBC。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks very much A couple for me.

非常感謝你們為我準備的一對。

Just first on the revenue growth guidance.

首先談談收入成長指引。

We've heard from some of your competitors just in terms of population growth assumptions or more broadly wireless market expansion assumptions.

我們從您的一些競爭對手那裡聽說了人口成長假設或更廣泛的無線市場擴張假設。

Just wondering what you're thinking on the volume side for wireless in 2025?

我只是想知道您對 2025 年無線業務的規模有何看法？

And then secondly, just back to the earlier question on TPIA and whether there will or won't be a big three band out of footprint.

其次，回到先前關於 TPIA 的問題，以及是否會有三大頻段超出足跡。

Just wondering from a TELUS perspective, again, with reference to perhaps the 2025 guidance, if you're unable to tap TPIA in the East, just wondering what other growth opportunities you would have or whether that materially change the growth outlook here for TELUS short and medium term?

只是從 TELUS 的角度來看，再次參考 2025 年的指導方針，如果您無法利用東部的 TPIA，只是想知道您會有哪些其他增長機會，或者這是否會實質性地改變 TELUS 短期和中期的增長前景？

Thank you.

謝謝。

You want to take the first part of that question, Zainul?

你想回答這個問題的第一部分嗎，Zainul？

Sure.

當然。

On the volume side.

在音量方面。

So I will say that Darren reminds me daily of the comments that he's made for several consecutive quarters on the fact that our EBITDA growth could be at the high end of guidance on the back of leveraging our existing customers and ensuring that we provide -- continue to provide great service, continue to drive product intensity and continue to improve on our churn and other economics.

因此，我要說的是，達倫每天都會提醒我，他連續幾個季度都表示，我們的 EBITDA 成長可能處於預期的高位，這得益於我們利用現有客戶並確保我們繼續提供優質服務、繼續推動產品強度並繼續改善我們的客戶流失率和其他經濟狀況。

So I think that we're really focused on what we can do with the capabilities that we have.

所以我認為我們真正關注的是利用我們現有的能力可以做些什麼。

We have a breadth of a product portfolio that is unmatched domestically, and we have the opportunity to continue to leverage that differentiation to grow our business.

我們擁有國內無與倫比的產品組合廣度，我們有機會繼續利用這種差異化來發展我們的業務。

And we're going to be focused regardless of the macroeconomics and the macro environment on driving that level of product intensity.

無論宏觀經濟和宏觀環境如何，我們都將專注於提高產品強度。

So we are absolutely seeing some shifts, and we're seeing some areas of decline.

因此，我們確實看到了一些轉變，也看到了一些衰退領域。

I think that we're all managing through that.

我想我們都在努力解決這個問題。

And our approach is to be as disciplined as we possibly can and continue to grow profitably off this opportunity size that we already have that we can continue to mature.

我們的方法是盡可能嚴格遵守紀律，繼續利用我們現有的機會規模來實現獲利成長，並不斷成熟。

Again, given that the differentiated success on the B2B front, particularly as it relates to national expansion and the growth opportunities within the small-, medium-business side are considerable.

同樣，鑑於 B2B 方面的差異化成功，特別是與全國擴張相關的成功，以及中小型企業的成長機會相當可觀。

Navin, would you top-up on Zainul's response as well, please?

Navin，您可以補充 Zainul 的回應嗎？

And then I'll close it out for Drew.

然後我將為德魯結束這一切。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks, Darren.

謝謝，達倫。

So just as an example, we saw 6% revenue growth in our SMB segment in the fourth quarter, and we continue to see double-digit growth in our 5G IoT portfolio, which all continue to contribute positively to the B2B growth story.

舉個例子，我們在第四季度看到中小企業部門的收入成長了 6%，我們的 5G IoT 產品組合繼續實現兩位數的成長，這些都繼續為 B2B 的成長做出積極貢獻。

And so when we look at 2025, wireless specifically, yes, there are some headwinds that will continue, but we feel very confident in our ability to drive the volume growth, the new product growth.

因此，當我們展望2025年，特別是無線領域時，是的，一些阻力仍將持續，但我們對推動銷售成長和新產品成長的能力非常有信心。

The opportunity to monetize data is nascent at this point and a very good opportunity for us to continue to grow on that front as well.

目前，數據貨幣化的機會才剛開始，這對我們繼續在該領域發展來說也是一個非常好的機會。

So the SMB opportunity on a national basis continues to be an area of strong growth for us.

因此，全國範圍內的中小企業機會仍然是我們強勁成長的領域。

Finally, Drew, I could reiterate the comment that I made last time, which I still feel strongly about, which is the significant growth opportunity that exists within our existing client base in terms of the upside of product intensity that would give us volume loading growth and extremely attractive economics associated with that, because it would be economic quality loading that we would be affecting.

最後，德魯，我可以重申我上次所發表的評論，我仍然對此深有感觸，那就是我們現有客戶群中存在著巨大的增長機會，從產品強度的上升來看，這將給我們帶來產量增長和與之相關的極具吸引力的經濟效益，因為這將影響經濟質量負荷。

And to be quite clear about that, that's really a four-point game because not only do we get economically accretive loading, but we improve the product intensity, which lowers the churn rate, which gives us a better overall lifetime value.

要清楚這一點，這實際上是一個四點遊戲，因為我們不僅獲得了經濟增值的負荷，而且我們提高了產品強度，從而降低了客戶流失率，從而為我們帶來了更好的整體終身價值。

So that's at the backbone of everything that we're doing right now.

這就是我們現在所做一切事情的核心。

But when you think about the question you're asking on third-party access in whatever guys, I guess the best way I could answer it is we're going to make the bold assumption that regulatory decisions pronounced by the CRTC after a comprehensive and rigorous and exhaustive process, where the diversity of voices was consulted in terms of all stakeholder constituency groups, where the documentation of the decision was highly exacting, where the decision was confirmed twice over from interim to final, where the decision was twice vetted and approved by the Competition Bureau, and also a decision that's, I think, consistent on a contemporary basis with Canada wanting to remove, not increase international trade barriers given some of the challenges that may confront us prospectively at the international level, we will expect that particular decision to stand.

但是當您思考有關第三方訪問的問題時，我想我能回答的最好方式是，我們將做出大膽的假設，即 CRTC 經過全面、嚴格和詳盡的程序後宣布的監管決定，其中諮詢了所有利益相關者選區群體的不同聲音，其中決定的文件非常嚴格，其中決定從臨時到最終經過兩次確認，其中決定經過競爭，我們預計該特定決定能夠成立。

And we will adjudicate accordingly in terms of our go-to-market activities.

我們將根據我們的行銷活動做出相應的裁決。

I think that decision and our response from a go-to-market perspective is in the best interest conclusively of Canadian consumers and Canadian businesses, particularly small businesses in that regard.

我認為，從市場進入的角度來看，這個決定和我們的回應最終符合加拿大消費者和加拿大企業（特別是小型企業）的最佳利益。

And I would expect that the government at this particular point in time, would want to be making moves that are accretive to the welfare of consumers or the productivity of businesses.

我希望政府在此時此刻能夠採取一些有助於增進消費者福利或提高企業生產力的措施。

Next question please, Carl.

請回答下一個問題，卡爾。

Sebastiano Petti, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的塞巴斯蒂亞諾·佩蒂。

Thank you for taking the question.

感謝您回答這個問題。

Just maybe following up on Jerome's question and just about the leverage target, Darren, you did mention surfacing value in your infrastructure assets and a comment reiterated or echoed by your telco peer there.

達倫，也許只是在跟進傑羅姆的問題以及關於槓桿目標的問題，你確實提到了基礎設施資產中浮現的價值，以及你的電信同行重申或呼應的評論。

Any examples of perhaps what you're exploring?

有任何例子可以說明您正在探索什麼嗎？

Obviously, Rogers is going down a path with some -- unclear on how that will result.

顯然，羅傑斯正在走一條與某些人有關的道路——但尚不清楚其結果如何。

But you have obviously telecom infrastructure assets related to your towers or the fiber.

但您顯然擁有與您的塔或光纖相關的電信基礎設施資產。

I mean, what is or is not on the table?

我的意思是，桌面上可以討論什麼，不可以討論什麼？

And then just any other help as we kind of think about getting to that three turns of leverage over time?

當我們考慮隨著時間的推移實現這三輪槓桿時，還有其他幫助嗎？

You did say EBITDA and free cash flow growth, but I think just commentary we're hearing folks perhaps struggling a little bit trying to see how the glide path gets there without perhaps meaningful asset monetization.

您確實提到了 EBITDA 和自由現金流增長，但我認為，我們聽到的只是人們可能有點掙扎的評論，試圖了解在沒有有意義的資產貨幣化的情況下，滑行路徑如何實現。

So just maybe double-clicking on that would be lovely.

因此也許只需雙擊它就可以了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Okay.

好的。

Given you ask for examples, I'll give you the recipe that we're pursuing with a requisite degree of specificity with some degree of insights needing to be assumed along the way.

鑑於您要求舉例說明，我將為您提供我們正在追求的方案，該方案具有必要的明確性，並且在此過程中需要假設一定程度的見解。

First and foremost, we're going to keep pushing on EBITDA growth.

首先，我們將繼續推動 EBITDA 成長。

We think we've got attractive opportunities for cash expansion through EBITDA growth.

我們認為，透過 EBITDA 成長，我們擁有實現現金擴張的誘人機會。

And I think 7% EBITDA growth to exit Q4 is an excellent example in that regard.

我認為第四季 EBITDA 成長率達到 7% 就是一個很好的例子。

We've been very proactive and aggressive in terms of our cost efficiency programs.

我們在成本效率計劃方面一直非常積極主動且積極進取。

And that has been a key underpinning to our go-to-market activities to deliver the nominal results that we are on the EBITDA side of the business.

這是我們進入市場活動的關鍵基礎，以確保我們在 EBITDA 業務方面取得名義上的成果。

On the capital investment side, I've been quite explicit saying that the goal of this organization is to get down to 10% CapEx intensity.

在資本投資方面，我已經明確表示，該組織的目標是將資本支出強度降至 10%。

And it's not a fanciful goal.

這並非一個不切實際的目標。

It's a goal that recognizes that the heavy CapEx lifts that have really characterized the decade between 2013 and 2023 are more behind us now than ahead of us because of the pervasive fiber build that we've affected and the spectrum gauntlet that we have survived through along the way.

這個目標承認，由於我們受到影響的廣泛光纖建設和我們一路挺過的頻譜挑戰，2013 年至 2023 年這十年間真正具有特徵的大量資本支出現在已經成為過去，而不是未來。

And I think those are positive things.

我認為這些都是正面的事情。

The other aspects that are buttressing our ability to get down to that 10% CapEx intensity level is the digital transformation of the TELUS organization aided and embedded by TELUS Digital, the cloudification of our support infrastructure, and the fact that increasingly, Zainul and Navin's portfolio is characterized by SaaS solutions.

支持我們降低至 10% 資本支出強度水準的能力的其他方麵包括由 TELUS Digital 輔助和嵌入的 TELUS 組織的數位轉型、我們支援基礎設施的雲端化，以及 Zainul 和 Navin 的產品組合越來越多地以 SaaS 解決方案為特徵的事實。

So I think all of those things cumulatively are quite supportive in that regard.

所以我認為所有這些因素綜合起來對這個方面都提供了很大的支持。

And we're not a one-trick pony in terms of where our sources of growth are coming from.

從成長源頭來看，我們並不是只有一種技能。

We're getting it from consumer.

我們從消費者那裡獲得它。

We're getting it from business, and we're getting it from our emerging growth areas, including TELUS Health and TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods.

我們從商業中獲得這種動力，我們也從新興成長領域中獲得這種動力，包括 TELUS Health 和 TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods。

As it relates to monetization programs, we have a very attractive opportunity for us on the real estate front because of the supplanting of copper with fiber and what it does in terms of yielding real estate development opportunities from our former central offices that are very attractively located.

就貨幣化計劃而言，我們在房地產方面擁有非常有吸引力的機會，因為用光纖取代銅線，並且它可以為我們以前位置非常優越的中央辦公室帶來房地產開發機會。

And we exited 2024, releasing about 24 central offices for real estate development.

我們在 2024 年退出了這項計劃，釋放了大約 24 個中央辦公室用於房地產開發。

And I would expect by the end of 2025, we'll have a total of 35 to 40 central offices released for real estate development, and that's extremely attractive.

我預計到 2025 年底，我們將共有 35 到 40 個中央局可用於房地產開發，這是非常有吸引力的。

And we see a real estate opportunity from a monetization perspective in the $3 billion zone, which is why we're progressing our REIT strategy with the future CEO of that business being Doug, and he certainly has a passion to bring that to fruition.

我們從貨幣化角度看到了 30 億美元區域的房地產機會，這就是我們推進房地產投資信託基金 (REIT) 策略的原因，該業務的未來執行長是道格 (Doug)，他當然熱衷於實現這一目標。

The other synergistic byproduct of fiber and the supplanting of copper is the recycling of copper, our ability to mine copper within our access infrastructure at a time when the spot price on copper is extremely attractive.

光纖和銅替代的另一個協同副產品是銅的回收利用，即在銅的現貨價格極具吸引力的時候，我們能夠在接入基礎設施內開採銅。

And we think that there's a progressive opportunity that we're going to have, like real estate, on a multi-, multi-, multi-year basis that is economically attractive.

我們認為，我們將擁有一個漸進的機會，例如房地產，在多年、多年、多年的基礎上，它具有經濟吸引力。

And the opportunity there is circa $1 billion at a gross level and post or net of recycling, maybe doing it with some interesting partners within the Canadian resource industry is probably netting out at $0.5 billion.

這裡的機會總額和回收後的淨額約為 10 億美元，也許與加拿大資源行業內的一些有趣的合作夥伴一起做這件事，淨收入可能達到 5 億美元。

As it relates to our emerging growth businesses, both TELUS Health and TELUS Agriculture and Consumer Goods, where TELUS Health has the pole position on this front, given the scale characteristics that we're now achieving and the growth and profitability characteristics that we're now achieving, we have the opportunity to look at bringing in key partners to help accelerate the growth and the value of that asset and looking at monetization opportunities within the medium term as it relates to IPO undertakings that are very, very real for the TELUS organization.

就我們的新興成長業務而言，包括 TELUS Health 和 TELUS Agriculture 及消費品，其中 TELUS Health 在這方面處於領先地位，鑑於我們目前所實現的規模特徵以及我們目前所實現的增長和盈利特徵，我們有機會考慮引入關鍵合作夥伴來幫助加速該資產的增長和價值，並在中期內尋找與 TELUS 事業相關的貨幣化機會。

We also have some assets within the portfolio that need to be groomed because they no longer represent a productive or elegant strategic or commercial fit.

我們的投資組合中還有一些資產需要整理，因為它們不再具有有成效或優雅的策略或商業契合度。

There are other organizations out there externally that would covet those assets where it would be a better strategic fit for them than us.

外部還有其他組織會覬覦這些資產，對他們來說，這比我們更符合策略需求。

And so we will look to undertake certain divestitures in that regard.

因此，我們將考慮在這方面進行一定的資產剝離。

And then specifically, as it relates to telecommunications infrastructure and monetization strategies as it relates to fiber, the answer to your question is no.

具體來說，由於它涉及電信基礎設施和與光纖相關的貨幣化策略，所以你的問題的答案是否定的。

And as it relates to towers, the answer to your question is maybe.

至於與塔相關的，你的問題的答案是可能的。

If we like the economics, if we like the deal, if we like what could be done with that particular asset post monetization, it's something that we would consider along the way, and we think it is our responsibility to do exactly that.

如果我們喜歡經濟學，如果我們喜歡這筆交易，如果我們喜歡貨幣化後可以對該特定資產做些什麼，那麼我們會在過程中考慮這些，我們認為這是我們的責任。

And so the laundry list goes further.

因此洗衣清單還會進一步延長。

But I think from a recipe point of view, that should give you significant insight as to just how real and concrete these activities are to assure our ability to hit the net debt-to-EBITDA goal that we've now gone public with and the synergistic complement on that front in terms of removing our discount dividend reinvestment plan.

但我認為，從方案的角度來看，這應該能讓您深刻了解這些活動有多麼真實和具體，以確保我們能夠實現現在已公開的淨債務與 EBITDA 比率目標，以及在取消折扣股息再投資計劃方面的協同補充。

If I could quickly follow-up -- that's a very thorough answer.

如果我可以快速跟進的話——這是一個非常徹底的答案。

I appreciate that, Darren.

我很感激，達倫。

But as you think about the real estate monetization opportunity, you've earmarked another $100 million this year towards that program.

但當您考慮房地產貨幣化機會時，您今年已為該計劃另外撥款 1 億美元。

Is that -- can you achieve your $3 billion monetization goal in real estate at that kind of run rate level on an annual basis as we kind of think about maybe the medium term?

那是——我們想想看，您能以這種年運行率實現 30 億美元的房地產貨幣化目標嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

There's going to be more of a run rate similar to 2024 for the next year or so.

未來一年左右的運行率將會與 2024 年更加接近。

And then there'll be a, call it, a lump sum monetization when you have a pool of assets that carry a magnitude of substance.

當你擁有一批具有一定實質內容的資產時，就可以實現一次性貨幣化。

So that could be two years out, give or take, or it could be sooner if we continue down the path on development we're on.

所以，這可能要等到兩年左右，或者如果我們繼續沿著目前的發展道路前進，那麼這個時間可能會更短。

But I would assume for '25 as similar to '24, but there could be a lump sum within the three-year planning period.

但我認為 25 年的情況與 24 年類似，但在三年規劃期內可能會有一筆總款。

Carl, we have time for one more question, please.

卡爾，我們還有時間再回答一個問題。

Benjamin Swinburne, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的班傑明‧斯威伯恩 (Benjamin Swinburne)。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Good morning to you guys.

大家早安。

I wanted to ask about the wireless marketplace and particularly around pricing environment and ARPU.

我想詢問有關無線市場的情況，特別是定價環境和 ARPU 問題。

I see ARPU -- I think mobile ARPU was down about 3.5% year on year in Q4.

我看到了 ARPU——我認為第四季度行動 ARPU 年比下降了約 3.5%。

I think you've put in a price increase on public mobile in the first quarter.

我認為你們在第一季已經提高了公共移動的價格。

Just wondering what you're thinking around ARPU trends in '25 and what's sort of underpinning the guidance, if you want to talk about it?

只是想知道您對 25 年 ARPU 趨勢有何看法，以及指導方針的基礎是什麼，如果您想談論它的話？

And just generally, the environment you think you're operating in today versus what we saw over the course of the past year.

總體來說，您認為您今天的營運環境與我們過去一年所見的環境相比有所差異。

Thank you so much.

太感謝了。

Okay.

好的。

I'll ask Zainul and Navin to kick it off, and then Doug and I can close as it relates to the guidance round-up.

我會請 Zainul 和 Navin 開始討論，然後 Doug 和我會結束討論，因為它與指導總結有關。

Thank you.

謝謝。

So I think I would say that you've seen similar ARPU performance from us from a stabilization perspective.

因此，我想說，從穩定的角度來看，您已經看到了我們類似的 ARPU 表現。

And it is no doubt a competitive and aggressive market out there, and it's a disrupted market.

毫無疑問，這是一個競爭激烈的市場，也是一個混亂的市場。

So I think that we are continuing to assume that we see some of the same challenging competitive dynamics.

因此我認為，我們繼續假設我們看到一些同樣具有挑戰性的競爭態勢。

I don't think that there's going to be a material swing if there is to the upside, then that will be accretive.

我認為，如果有上行趨勢，就不會出現實質的波動，只會帶來增值。

Our guidance is based on much of the same.

我們的指導也是基於同樣的內容。

And I think that as we spoke earlier, we see good opportunity to continue increasing product intensity into our base.

我認為，正如我們之前所說的，我們看到了繼續提高基地產品強度的良好機會。

I would tell you that I'm not satisfied or happy with the ARPU performance or quite frankly, with our churn performance.

我想說的是，我對於 ARPU 表現，或者坦白說，對我們的客戶流失表現並不滿意或高興。

And I think both of those levers could be improved with respect to how we attract different demographics of the right market.

我認為，我們可以針對如何吸引合適市場的不同人口群體來改善這兩個槓桿。

I also think there's some mix evolution.

我還認為存在一些混合進化。

So as you highlighted with areas like public, we are -- we do have offerings that are attractive to different segments of the market that impact the mix.

因此，正如您在公共等領域所強調的那樣，我們確實提供對影響產品組合的不同市場部分有吸引力的產品。

But I think the key thing here is that our guidance assumes that we're aligned to the same sort of performance dynamic that we've seen on the lower side.

但我認為這裡的關鍵是，我們的指導假設我們與我們在較低水準上看到的相同類型的績效動態保持一致。

And on the upper side, there might be the accretion opportunity from that point.

而從上行方面來看，從那時起可能存在增值機會。

Over to you, Navin.

交給你了，納文。

Yeah.

是的。

Thanks, Zainul.

謝謝，Zainul。

Just a few top-ups.

只需充值幾次即可。

So as both Zainul and I have said, we still see opportunity to grow share in B2B.

因此，正如 Zainul 和我所說的，我們仍然看到 B2B 領域份額的成長機會。

We still see the opportunity to drive product intensity, and that has a positive impact on churn as well, of course.

我們仍然看到了提高產品強度的機會，當然，這也對客戶流失產生了正面的影響。

I think on the B2B side, we have some really strong growth assets.

我認為在 B2B 方面，我們擁有一些非常強勁的成長資產。

So the IoT business is growing nicely double digit.

物聯網業務正在實現兩位數的良好成長。

You may have seen the press release that we just signed a private wireless network agreement with the Calgary Airport, and that's the first of its kind with potentially more to come.

您可能已經看到了我們剛剛與卡加利機場簽署私人無線網路協議的新聞稿，這是同類協議中的第一個，未來可能會有更多協議。

And so those are examples of great growth assets that are helping to offset some of the competitive intensity we're seeing.

這些都是巨大成長資產的例子，它們有助於抵消我們所看到的部分競爭強度。

The other thing I would say is -- and Darren alluded to this on our cost focus -- but there's a lot of digital and digitization opportunities that we're working with TELUS Digital and our internal CIO team around how we improve our AMPU -- so even with ARPU pressures, how we're maintaining and expanding our margin profile.

我想說的另一件事是——Darren 提到了我們的成本重點——但我們正在與 TELUS Digital 和我們的內部 CIO 團隊合作，探討如何提高我們的 AMPU——因此即使面臨 ARPU 壓力，我們仍在維持和擴大我們的利潤率。

And I think the fact that in the B2B space for a good part of the decade, the last decade, we've had the best loyalty results in the space, and that continues to always be an important contributor to our ARPU as well as to our churn.

我認為，在過去十年的大部分時間裡，在 B2B 領域，我們取得了該領域最好的忠誠度結果，而這始終是我們 ARPU 以及客戶流失的重要貢獻者。

So we expect a lot of that and all of that to continue in 2025.

因此，我們預計，這種情況將在 2025 年繼續存在。

Back to you, Darren.

回到你這裡，達倫。

Doug, do you want to top-up at all?

道格，你想儲值嗎？

Yeah.

是的。

Maybe just on some of our thoughts as well that when you think through the uncertainty in the macroeconomic backdrop on interest rates, inflation, and cost of borrowing, you also -- we've also made some assumptions on rationality to pricing to help support some of those higher costs.

也許只是根據我們的一些想法，當你考慮到宏觀經濟背景下的利率、通貨膨脹和借貸成本的不確定性時，我們也對定價的合理性做出了一些假設，以幫助支撐其中一些較高的成本。

And so it's not unreasonable, but it's definitely more reflective of the situation we're in.

這並非不合理，但肯定更能反映我們所處的狀況。

And some of the debt that's currently being issued is at higher rates.

目前發行的部分債務的利率較高。

And so I think the alignment of the market to price accordingly on that is probably aligned.

因此，我認為市場對此的定價可能已經調整好了。

And finally, our guidance isn't predicated on a miraculous ARPU recovery.

最後，我們的指引並不以奇蹟般的 ARPU 復甦為前提。

So I think it's important to be understood.

所以我認為被理解很重要。

We would hope to see some elements of moderation.

我們希望看到一些溫和的因素。

It would be great to see a miraculous ARPU recovery, but our guidance is not predicated on that.

如果能看到奇蹟般的 ARPU 復甦，那當然好啦，但我們的指導並不以此為依據。

We think that would be an erroneous planning assumption.

我們認為這是一個錯誤的規劃假設。

And the only point that wasn't added is we have a lot of diversity of growth taking place at TELUS that's outside the dominion of wireless ARPU

唯一沒有補充的是，TELUS 的成長非常多樣化，超出了無線 ARPU 的範圍

Thanks, [Darren], and thank you, everyone, for joining us today.

謝謝，[Darren]，也謝謝大家今天的參與。

Please feel free to reach out to the IR team with any follow-ups you may have.

如有任何後續事宜，請隨時聯絡 IR 團隊。

Carl, over to you.

卡爾，交給你了。

This concludes the TELUS 2024 Q4 earnings conference call.

TELUS 2024 年第四季財報電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for your participation and have a nice day.

感謝您的參與並祝您有愉快的一天。