LendingTree, Inc. (TREE) 2025 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree, Inc. fourth-quarter 2025 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

各位來賓，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 LendingTree 公司 2025 年第四季財報電話會議。 （操作說明）請注意，本次會議正在錄音。

I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Andrew Wessel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

現在我把會議交給今天的第一位發言人，投資者關係主管安德魯‧韋塞爾。請開始吧。

Thank you, Tanya, and hello to everyone joining us today to discuss our fourth quarter 2025 financial results. On with us are Scott Peyree, President and CEO; and Jason Bengel, CFO. This afternoon, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website. And for the purposes of today's discussion, we will assume that listeners have read that letter, and we will focus on Q&A.

謝謝 Tanya，也歡迎各位今天蒞臨，與我們一同探討我們 2025 年第四季的財務表現。今天到場的有總裁兼執行長 Scott Peyree 和財務長 Jason Bengel。今天下午，我們在投資者關係網站上發布了一封給股東的詳細信函。為了方便今天的討論，我們假設各位聽眾已經閱讀過這封信，因此我們將重點放在問答環節。

Before I hand the call over to Scott for his remarks, I remind everyone that during this call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

在將電話交給Scott發言之前，我提醒各位，在本次電話會議中，我們可能會討論LendingTree對未來業績的預期。我們所做的任何前瞻性陳述都存在風險和不確定性，LendingTree的實際業績可能與今天表達的觀點有重大差異。我們面臨的許多風險（但並非全部）已在向美國證券交易委員會提交的定期報告中有所描述。

We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP.

我們還將在電話會議上討論各種非GAAP指標，請各位參閱我們網站上發布的今日新聞稿和股東信，其中包含可比較的GAAP定義以及非GAAP指標與GAAP的完整調節表。

And with that, Scott, please go ahead.

那麼，斯科特，請開始吧。

Thanks, Andrew, and thanks to everyone joining us today as we discuss our very strong fourth quarter and full year 2025 results. I will first touch on some of the highlights from our earnings release, and then I'd like to take everyone through our '26 strategy before opening it up for questions.

謝謝安德魯，也感謝今天所有與我們一起討論我們非常強勁的2025年第四季和全年業績的朋友們。我首先會簡單介紹一下財報中的一些亮點，然後我想向大家介紹我們的2026年戰略，之後會開放提問環節。

First off, we had a fantastic 2025. VMD was up 14%. Adjusted EBITDA grew at double that pace, 28%. Each of our three reportable segments grew VMD at double-digit rates. Insurance again led the way as very strong demand from carriers, combined with our ability to take market share from competitors, generated $174 million of VMD, a 10% increase over the previous year.

首先，我們2025年業績斐然。營業額成長14%，調整後EBITDA成長率更是高達28%，是營業額成長的兩倍。我們三大報告業務板塊的營業額均達到了兩位數成長。保險業務再次領先，保險公司強勁的需求加上我們從競爭對手手中奪取市場份額，共同創造了1.74億美元的營業額，較上年增長10%。

We have heard some of our peers call out slowing demand from the largest insurers in Q1. I just want to tell everyone, we are not seeing that at all ourselves as top carriers budgets with us remain robust as they're targeting our high-quality consumers.

我們聽到一些同業指出，第一季大型保險公司的需求有所放緩。我想告訴大家，我們自己完全沒有看到這種情況，因為在我們這裡投保的頂級保險公司預算依然強勁，他們瞄準的是我們優質的客戶群。

In fact, we expect Q1 to be yet another record revenue quarter. The number 4 through number 10 insurers on our network grew revenue by 65% with us in '25 from the previous year, a testament to the strength and breadth of partners in our marketplace. Insurance gathered strength as the year progressed, finishing with record performance in the fourth quarter that was just ahead of our previous record, the year ago period.

事實上，我們預計第一季將再次創下營收新高。我們網路中排名第4至第10的保險公司在2025年與我們合作的收入較上年增長了65%，這充分證明了我們市場合作夥伴的實力和覆蓋範圍。保險業務在年內持續走強，並在第四季度創下歷史新高，略高於去年同期的紀錄。

The momentum has carried through the start of '26, and we expect another record year from the insurance division this year. Consumer segment -- consumer grew segment profit by 17% last year, anchored by a 60% revenue growth from our small business team.

這一成長動能延續到了2026年初，我們預計保險部門今年將再創佳績。消費者業務方面，去年消費者業務利潤成長了17%，這主要得益於小型企業團隊60%的營收成長。

Similar to the Insurance segment, our consumer group of businesses strengthened throughout the course of the year, with segment profit increasing 24% in Q4 from the prior year and small business revenue growing a remarkable 78% year over year. Importantly, we have not sacrificed margin to generate this growth as segment margin for both the quarter and full year was stable at 51%.

與保險業務部門類似，我們的消費者業務板塊在年內持續成長，第四季獲利年增24%，小型企業收入更是實現了驚人的78%的同比增長。值得一提的是，我們並未為了實現這一成長而犧牲利潤率，第四季和全年的利潤率均穩定在51%。

As a reminder, we have continually invested in additions to our small business concierge sales force, allowing us as well as lenders on the network, allowing us to help a greater number of business owners find the best loan options for them while guiding them through the often-complex process of completing their application through to funding.

再次提醒大家，我們一直在加大對小型企業專屬銷售團隊的投入，這使我們能夠以及我們網絡中的貸款機構幫助更多的企業主找到最適合他們的貸款方案，同時指導他們完成從申請到放款的複雜流程。

Continuing the buildout of this team is in our plans for '26. The Home segment recorded 6% year over year in revenue -- growth in revenue for the fourth quarter, although increasing media costs and lower conversion rates for our lender partners pressured segment margins. The national 30-year mortgage rate just dipped below 6% for the first time since 2022. We are hopeful lower rates will finally start to unlock what has historically been -- which has been a historically slow mortgage market.

2026年，我們計劃繼續擴充這支團隊。房屋業務板塊第四季營收年增6%，實現了營收成長，但不斷上漲的媒體成本和貸款合作夥伴轉換率下降對該板塊的利潤率造成了壓力。全國30年期抵押貸款利率自2022年以來首次跌破6%。我們希望較低的利率最終能夠啟動長期以來較低迷的抵押貸款市場。

The guidance we published today does not assume any continued improvement in rates. So we hope this means our home segment forecast will end up being conservative.

我們今天發布的指引並未假設利率會持續改善。因此，我們希望這意味著我們對房屋市場的預測最終會比較保守。

The pace of AI and AI-enabled search innovation has continued to accelerate. As I have said on previous calls, we view these new tools as fantastic opportunities for our business and are a key component of the strategy we have developed to increase the number of high-intent visitors to our sites to compare and shop for financial products.

人工智慧和人工智慧搜尋技術的創新步伐持續加快。正如我在先前的電話會議中所說，我們認為這些新工具為我們的業務帶來了絕佳的機遇，也是我們制定策略的關鍵組成部分，旨在增加訪問我們網站的高意向訪客數量，以便他們比較和購買金融產品。

We understand investor fears around the threat of disintermediation to our business model. There are many legal and regulatory structures in place that will make it difficult for agentic AI to overcome, not to mention our own partners' incentive structures that would negate the outcome. Instead of focusing on playing defense, though against these low probability outcomes, we are embracing this innovative technology. I cannot be more excited about the AI-powered improvements that we are making to our consumer experience.

我們理解投資者對我們商業模式可能遭受「去中介化」威脅的擔憂。現有的許多法律法規架構使得智慧人工智慧難以突破重重阻礙，更何況我們合作夥伴的激勵機制也可能抵銷其帶來的正面影響。儘管這些可能性極低，但我們並沒有選擇被動防禦，而是積極擁抱這項創新技術。我對人工智慧在提升消費者體驗方面所做的改進感到無比興奮。

We have already driven results with our use of AI voice in our call center. As mentioned in the letter, we've seen significant revenue growth to the tune of $10-plus million in revenue growth per quarter over the last six quarters compared to OpEx growth of a few hundred thousand dollars per quarter over the last six quarters in our call center operations.

我們在呼叫中心應用人工智慧語音技術已經取得了顯著成效。如信中所述，過去六個季度，我們的收入實現了顯著成長，每季成長超過1,000萬美元，而同期呼叫中心營運支出僅成長了數十萬美元。

We've also seen efficient improvements that our marketing team has generated using AI-enabled technology to speed up design, ad testing and funnel testing. This is shown with a 17% increase in overall conversions coming through our network year over year in the fourth quarter, and that is with the headwind of legacy SEO coming down.

我們也看到，行銷團隊利用人工智慧技術顯著提升了設計、廣告測試和轉換漏斗測試的效率。這體現在第四季我們網路整體轉換率年增17%，而這還是在傳統SEO效果逐漸減弱的情況下取得的。

Our North Star as a company continues to be -- I'm sorry, the North Star of our company is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products. Everything that goes into forming our long-term initiatives is based on this aspiration. We have the right to win as LendingTree has the broadest network of financial partners of any consumer finance shopping site, sourcing millions of visitors who are in the market for these products and want the best deal is our core competency.

我們公司的北極星始終是——抱歉，應該說我們公司的北極星是——成為金融產品購物的首選平台。我們所有長期策略的發展都基於這個願景。我們有能力贏得這場競爭，因為LendingTree擁有所有消費金融購物網站中最廣泛的金融合作夥伴網絡，而我們的核心競爭力在於能夠吸引數百萬正在尋找此類產品並希望獲得最佳交易的訪客。

We will use these strengths as the bedrock to scale customer volumes and improve outcomes with enhanced experiences, new tools and better matching.

我們將利用這些優勢作為基石，透過增強體驗、開發新工具和更好地匹配客戶，擴大客戶規模並改善客戶體驗。

Our North Star strategy has four strategic pillars: number one, accelerate the core business; number two, improve the consumer experience; number three, expand product offerings; and finally, number four, rebuild and reposition our brand.

我們的北極星策略有四大策略支柱：第一，加速核心業務發展；第二，改善消費者體驗；第三，擴大產品供應；第四，重建和重新定位我們的品牌。

I'd like to briefly hit on each of these pillars for the investors today.

今天我想簡單地向投資人介紹一下這幾個支柱。

Number one, accelerate the core business. Initiatives in this growth area focus on our existing businesses, to support ongoing double-digit growth. These strategic initiatives support driving more consumers to our network, providing more purchase options to consumers and increasing monetization of our traffic via our distribution networks.

第一，加速核心業務發展。該成長領域的舉措著重於現有業務，以支持持續兩位數成長。這些策略性舉措旨在吸引更多消費者加入我們的網絡，為消費者提供更多購買選擇，並透過我們的分銷網絡提高流量變現效率。

Examples of areas we're focusing on now include the continued expansion of our SMB concierge sales force and network of lenders in SMB, the development of a concierge sales force in auto lending, investments into tech product and sales teams for rapid expansion of our media business development capabilities and tech investment into major upgrades of our marketing technology platforms.

我們現在關注的領域包括：繼續擴大我們的中小企業專屬銷售團隊和中小企業貸款機構網絡；發展汽車貸款專屬銷售團隊；投資技術產品和銷售團隊，以快速擴展我們的媒體業務發展能力；以及投資技術，對我們的營銷技術平台進行重大升級。

Number two, improve the consumer experience. In this pillar, the CX team is systematically resolving consumer pain points, often with the use of AI technology. Initiatives in this pillar focused on making shopping easier for what are often complicated financial products. We are seeking to serve both consumers looking to transact as well as consumers who are just window shopping. The goal of this pillar is to become a trusted partner for the consumer when seeking financial products to drive an increase in return visits and referrals.

第二，提升顧客體驗。在這支柱下，客戶體驗團隊正系統性地解決客戶痛點，並經常運用人工智慧技術。此支柱下的各項措施旨在簡化通常較為複雜的金融產品選購流程。我們力求服務所有客戶，無論他們是實際進行交易還是只是瀏覽產品。此支柱的目標是成為客戶在尋求金融產品時值得信賴的合作夥伴，從​​而提高客戶的回頭率和推薦率。

Examples of this area of focusing on -- that we're focusing on now include improving our logged-in experience, taking learnings from our Spring app to our website, such as making it easier to log in and customizing the homepage for logged in users based on products they are shopping for, also simplifying the process to find and review offers they had previously received.

我們現在關注的重點領域包括：改善登入體驗，將 Spring 應用程式的經驗應用到我們的網站上，例如簡化登入流程，根據已登入使用者正在購買的產品自訂其主頁，以及簡化查找和查看他們之前收到的優惠資訊的過程。

Second, develop a personal loan rate table using our proprietary rate data we gather from millions of consumers shopping for loans on our network, which will allow consumers to know what rates they should expect before applying. This tool can be provided on our website, in our app, it can be embedded with our business development partners and importantly, embedded within [LLMs].

其次，利用我們從數百萬透過我們網路尋找貸款的消費者收集的專有利率數據，開發一份個人貸款利率表，讓消費者在申請貸款前了解預期利率。該工具可以放在我們的網站和應用程式中，也可以嵌入到我們業務拓展合作夥伴的系統中，更重要的是，還可以嵌入[LLM]系統中。

Third pillar, expand our product offerings. This pillar focuses on the addition of categories of financial products offered to consumers. Our long-term strategic goal is to provide a representation of all financial products that consumer could want.

第三支柱：拓展產品線。這一支柱著重於增加面向消費者的金融產品類別。我們的長期策略目標是提供消費者可能需要的所有金融產品。

We do not have to manufacture a shopping experience for some products when we can instead identify and partner with industry-leading service providers. The focus over the next 18 months is to sign partnerships in areas such as commercial insurance, pet insurance, boat and RV insurance, wealth management, robo-advisers, student lending and others.

對於某些產品，我們無需自行打造購物體驗，而是可以尋找並與業界領先的服務提供者建立合作關係。未來18個月的重點是與商業保險、寵物保險、船舶和房車保險、財富管理、智能投顧、學生貸款等領域的供應商簽署合作協議。

Finally, our fourth pillar, rebuild and reposition our brand. We have strong brand resilience with aided awareness but need to rebuild the brand from an unaided awareness perspective. We also are focused on repositioning our brand to be a destination to shop for a wide variety of insurance, lending and other financial products where historically, we've been associated more specifically with mortgage products.

最後，我們的第四大支柱是重建和重新定位品牌。我們擁有強大的品牌韌性，在輔助認知度方面表現出色，但需要從自然認知度的角度重建品牌。我們也致力於將品牌重新定位為提供各類保險、貸款和其他金融產品的平台，而過去我們則更多地與抵押貸款產品聯繫在一起。

In Q1, we made key brand hires and have begun the redesign of our homepage. Our goal is to target brand spend in several large geographic markets in the second half of this year, introducing new customers to our redesigned experience.

第一季度，我們進行了關鍵的品牌人才招聘，並啟動了網站首頁的重新設計。我們的目標是在今年下半年加大在幾個大型地理市場的品牌投入，讓新客戶體驗我們重新設計的使用者體驗。

So thank you, everyone. I know that was a lot, but I thought it was important with our North Star and our new strategic focus to really lay it out for all of our investors. It was a little long-winded there. So thank you for bearing with me.

所以，謝謝大家。我知道我說了很多，但我覺得為了更好地闡述我們的北極星目標和新的策略重點，有必要向所有投資者詳細解釋清楚。剛才可能有點囉嗦，感謝大家的耐心。

And so with that, I'll pause there and open the line to your questions about our results, outlook and strategy.

那麼，我就先說到這裡，接下來回答你們關於我們業績、前景和策略的問題。

(Operator Instructions) Youssef Squali, Truist Securities.

（操作說明）Youssef Squali，Truist Securities。

Congrats on the strong quarter. Scott, maybe can you talk a little bit about the sustainability of growth in insurance? And really just trying to understand what the main drivers are. I think you talked about how 4 out of the 10 insurance partners grew revenues, I think, by 60% or 65%. Maybe can you peel that onion one more layer and just kind of describe exactly what's going on that's driving all that growth? And then I have a follow-up, please.

恭喜你們本季業績強勁。史考特，您能否談談保險業成長的可持續性？我想了解一下主要的驅動因素是什麼。我記得您提到過，10家保險合作夥伴中有4家的收入成長了60%或65%。能否再深入分析一下，具體說說推動這些成長的因素是什麼？之後我還有一個後續問題。

Yes, sure. No problem, Youssef. Thanks for the question. And just to clarify, what I was talking about with the insurance providers is our carriers 4 through 10. So like after our top three carriers, the next seven carriers combined grew by 65% year over year. And I just wanted to illustrate in that statement how it's just -- we aren't solely dependent, but the top three carriers also grew a lot year over year, but just the growth is broad-based. It's not just purely based off the top three carriers.

好的，沒問題，尤瑟夫。謝謝你的提問。我再澄清一下，我之前提到的保險公司是指我們排名第4到第10的保險公司。也就是說，在我們前三名的保險公司之後，接下來的七家保險公司合計年增了65%。我只是想透過這句話說明，我們並非完全依賴這三家保險公司，雖然它們也實現了大幅成長，但整體成長是普遍的，並非僅由這三家公司推動的。

Even though our top three carriers, I mean, it's fair to say they still represent an outsized portion of our overall insurance revenue. So just to discuss on the sustainability of the insurance marketplace right now. The bottom line, I would start with the insurance carriers themselves remain very profitable. They had a great year last year. They've started the year well this year.

儘管我們前三大保險公司仍然佔據了我們整體保險收入的絕大部分，但就目前保險市場的可持續性而言，我認為最重要的是，保險公司本身仍然非常盈利。他們去年業績斐然，今年開局也十分良好。

And after many years of -- a few years of unprofitability and pulling back marketing spend amongst all other spends for a long time, they are now all very aggressive in growing market share, especially the top carriers. And it is -- and honestly, I would say, over the past three to six months, they've become more aggressive, if anything, of trying to fight over market share.

經過多年的虧損和長期削減行銷支出之後，如今所有業者都積極拓展市場份額，尤其是幾家大型業者。坦白說，我認為在過去三到六個月裡，他們在爭奪市場份額方面變得更加激進。

And we have just a lot of high-quality, high-intent consumers coming through our network. And the carriers know that our network is an extremely cost-effective way for them to get their insurance products in front of targeted high-intent insurance consumers. As the year goes on, we expect to start seeing some rate decreases more aggressively from our carriers, which will bring more consumers shopping into the marketplace.

我們擁有大量高品質、高意圖的消費者透過我們的網路進行交易。保險公司也深知，我們的網絡是他們向目標明確、意圖強烈的消費者推廣保險產品的極具成本效益的途徑。隨著時間的推移，我們預計保險公司會更積極地降低保費，這將吸引更多消費者進入市場進行選擇。

Carriers have continued to open up geographies. They're getting very open at this point, but that is -- I mean, more geographies are open today than were a year ago as a general statement for carriers being willing to offer consumers product.

營運商一直在不斷拓展業務範圍。目前他們的業務範圍已經非常廣泛，但這只是——我的意思是，如今運營商願意向消費者提供產品的整體情況，比一年前要多得多。

And then finally, just internally, as I mentioned with our marketing strategy, we've just done a very good job of increasing consumer traffic coming through our site. We're out there, and we're in front of a lot more consumers now today than we were a year ago. And honestly, we look at our opportunities in front of us over the next year, we are very excited about continued growth in consumer traffic coming through our site for insurance products.

最後，就我們內部而言，正如我之前提到的，在行銷策略方面，我們做得非常出色，並成功提升了網站的消費者流量。我們現在觸達的消費者比一年前多得多。坦白說，展望未來一年，我們對保險產品網站流量的持續成長感到非常興奮。

That's very helpful. And then on the AI disintermediation topic, how are you currently working or integrating with some of these LLMs to try to stay visible basically as search transitions to more of a conversational kind of interface?

這很有幫助。關於人工智慧去中介化這個主題，您目前是如何與一些生命週期管理（LLM）合作或整合，以保持自身在搜尋向對話式介面過渡過程中的可見度的？

Yes. I would say there's a number of fronts we're working on there. There's obviously the SEO front where you're getting referenced by the LLMs, driving consumers to our site. We continue to focus on that, and it continues to grow. It's very high-intent consumers, as I've mentioned on previous calls. I would say materially, it's still a pretty small percentage of our overall consumer base, but it's continuing to grow. Some of the LLMs, ChatGPT being an example, are looking to start testing some advertising, which we're excited about participating in.

是的。我想說，我們正在多方面努力。顯然，在搜尋引擎優化（SEO）方面，我們透過LLM（線上行銷平台）獲得用戶推薦，從而吸引消費者造訪我們的網站。我們一直在專注於此，而且這項業務也在持續成長。正如我在之前的電話會議中提到的，這些用戶的購買意願非常高。雖然從整體用戶群來看，這部分用戶仍然只占我們用戶總數的一小部分，但它正在持續成長。一些LLM，例如ChatGPT，正在考慮開始測試一些廣告，我們很樂意參與其中。

Again, I don't know how material to expect it to be in the calendar year 2026 as far as quantity of consumers, but it's -- being that we are very, very good at paid advertising to get in front of consumers, we're excited about the LLM starting to open up that.

再次強調，我不知道到 2026 年，消費者數量會有多大變化，但是——鑑於我們非常擅長付費廣告來接觸消費者，我們對 LLM 開始打開這個市場感到興奮。

And just from a technology development standpoint, we've been working at our teams on using AI development, conversational funnels, agentic AI bots to help get documentation necessary to finish application processes, developing comparison tools that helps consumers compare their offers apples-to-apples.

從技術開發的角度來看，我們的團隊一直在努力利用人工智慧開發、對話漏斗、智慧人工智慧機器人來幫助獲取完成申請流程所需的文檔，並開發比較工具來幫助消費者進行公平的比較。

The personal loans rate table, I mentioned in my opening statements as an example, I mean, we're building our -- a lot of technical chops on how to use AI and LLM style technology for front-end consumer products. I would say that there's been varying levels of success on the consumer engagement standpoint at this point. But I mean, -- but we're getting better and better at building it. And as that consumer behavior starts to change, I think we'll be a leader in that space.

我在開場白中提到的個人貸款利率表就是一個例子。我的意思是，我們正在不斷提升自身技術能力，學習如何將人工智慧和LLM（生命週期管理）技術應用於前端消費產品。目前，我們在提升消費者參與度方面所取得的成功程度不一。但是，我們不斷改進，力求做得更好。隨著消費者行為的轉變，我相信我們將成為該領域的領導者。

Ryan Tomasello, KBW.

Ryan Tomasello，KBW。

This is [Juan] on for Ryan. Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year? What's driving that decision? And if you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025?

這是胡安替瑞恩問的。能談談下半年的品牌專項投資嗎？做出這項決定的原因是什麼？能否估算一下這項投資相對於2025年的規模？

Yes. I'll just start at a high level, and Jason, you can throw in like the level of investments. I want to -- if you want to talk about that. But that was -- it's just a critical part of our North Star strategy is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products. And as we look at the landscape in our brand, we've got a really strong brand, and we're very proud of the brand we've developed.

是的。我先從宏觀層面談起，傑森，你可以補充投資層面的內容。如果你想聊這個，我很樂意。但關鍵在於——這是我們北極星策略的重要組成部分，那就是成為購買金融產品的首選平台。從我們品牌的現狀來看，我們擁有一個非常強大的品牌，我們為我們所建立的品牌感到非常自豪。

The two -- we haven't invested a ton on the pure basis of our brand over the past few years. And so whereas our brand is very good on an aided awareness perspective with consumers, it's not very good on an unaided awareness. So we feel it's important to get out there, especially now that we want to reposition ourselves as a destination for all financial product shopping, whereas historically, a lot of consumers really associate us specifically with mortgage and mortgage shopping.

這兩點——過去幾年，我們並沒有在品牌建立上投入大量資金。因此，雖然我們的品牌在消費者被引導認知方面表現出色，但在自然認知方面卻不盡人意。所以我們覺得，現在必須加強宣傳力度，尤其是在我們希望將自己重新定位為所有金融產品購物平台的當下。而過去，許多消費者確實會將我們與抵押貸款和抵押貸款購物聯繫起來。

So we want to -- the goal is at the end of the day to really get to the point where an average consumer on the street, we are one of the first companies that comes to their mind as they're thinking about shopping for financial products. And that's really what we want to start.

所以，我們的最終目標是，讓一般消費者在考慮購買金融產品時，首先想到的公司之一就是我們。而這正是我們想要著手實現的。

And so we want to go in the second half of this year with the redesigned homepage experience, a couple of pages with different messaging, some different types of messaging from a brand advertising perspective and go into some large markets where we have good positioning with all of our financial products, some geographic markets where we can test different messaging and see what sticks and lands with the consumers well before we really roll it out on a national basis.

因此，我們希望在今年下半年推出重新設計的首頁體驗，以及幾個包含不同信息的頁面，從品牌廣告的角度出發，採用一些不同類型的信息，並進入一些我們所有金融產品都佔據良好地位的大市場，以及一些我們可以測試不同信息傳遞方式的地理市場，看看哪些信息能夠真正打動消費者，並在全國範圍內正式推出之前就有所改進。

And so that will probably start happening kind of mid-Q3 to mid-Q4. Jason, do you want to hit on just the investment levels we're looking at?

所以這種情況可能會在第三季中期到第四季中期開始出現。傑森，你想重點談談我們正在關注的投資水準嗎？

Yes. That's -- like Scott said, this is probably more in the second half. And the amount that we spend is going to be a function of how well we're performing, I guess, is one and then also how well that brand spend itself is performing as well. So if it performs and exceeds our expectations, then we may wind up leaning into it.

是的。就像斯科特說的，這可能更多發生在下半年。我們的投入金額取決於兩方面：一方面是我們本身的業績表現，另一方面是品牌本身的表現。如果它的表現超出預期，我們可能會加大投入。

And the guidance does contemplate at least an initial investment where we're starting to roll this out and starting to do some testing. But the investment itself is at least initially probably less than $10 million as we're thinking about it in guidance.

該指導意見確實考慮到了初期投入，以便我們開始推廣這項技術並進行一些測試。但根據我們的指導意見，初期投入本身可能不到1000萬美元。

Got it. That's very clear. And just a quick follow-up. In terms of the outlook, can you provide a bit more granularity at the segment level for revenue and VMD growth as well as VMD margins?

明白了，非常清楚。還有一個後續問題。關於前景展望，您能否更詳細地提供一下各業務板塊的營收和VMD成長以及VMD利潤率資料？

Yes, sure. Happy to. So yes, I'll just talk through segment by segment, how we're thinking about the guide. So first, home, the backdrop for home, we're not assuming any real rate benefit for home. We've seen some rate decreases coming through, but we're not assuming any going forward. That would be upside to the guide.

好的，當然可以。我很樂意。那麼，我會逐一部分解說我們對這份指南的構想。首先是房屋保險，也就是房屋保險的背景，我們並沒有假設房屋保險會有任何實際的利率優惠。我們看到一些利率有所下降，但我們並不假設未來還會繼續下降。如果利率下降，那將是這份指南的利多因素。

Generally, home equity should have support with record home equity balances. But at the end of the day, there's still not a lot of consumers out there shopping, and we have seen some increase in competition with causing media cost to increase. So margin-wise, I would say we expect home to be roughly where it was landing in Q4. We are investing in quality to win a prominent space in our marketing channels, and we are investing in expanding our small lender network, which will provide some margin support.

一般來說，房屋淨值應該會受到創紀錄的房屋淨值餘額的支撐。但歸根究底，目前市場上的消費者數量仍然不多，而且我們看到競爭加劇，導致媒體成本上升。因此，就利潤率而言，我認為我們預計房屋淨值將與第四季大致持平。我們正在投資提升產品質量，以在我們的行銷管道中佔據顯著位置，同時也在投資擴大我們的小額貸款機構網絡，這將有助於提升利潤率。

Going on to consumer. Consumer, the real driver is going to be small business. The merchant cash advance market is a strong market that's growing. We've been investing in our concierge experience, the staffing, the marketing channel placements to drive high-quality traffic. We expect all of that to continue into 2026. That's a model that's really working well for us.

接下來談談消費者。真正的驅動力將是小型企業。商家現金預支市場是一個強勁且不斷成長的市場。我們一直在投資提升客戶服務體驗、加強人員配備以及優化行銷管道佈局，以吸引高品質的流量。我們預計所有這些舉措都將持續到2026年。這種模式對我們來說非常有效。

Personal loans, we move on to personal loans. Record credit card balances provide a great use case for debt consolidation in 2026. But 2025 did see quite a bit of expansions, buybox expansions, which we're not expecting to repeat in 2026. So we're being maybe a little bit more measured when it comes to PL growth expectations. And there, we're focused on better matching consumers with lenders and finding additional sources of traffic to feed those lenders.

接下來我們來談談個人貸款。信用卡餘額屢創新高，為2026年的債務整合提供了絕佳的案例。但2025年個人貸款市場出現了相當大的擴張，尤其是線上購買管道的擴張，我們預計2026年不會重現這一趨勢。因此，在個人貸款成長預期方面，我們可能會更加謹慎。目前，我們專注於更好地將消費者與貸款機構匹配，並尋找更多流量來源來吸引貸款機構。

Margin-wise, it's generally where we have been in Q4, I think, is probably fair. It will bounce around, but I think Q4 is generally a decent starting point. And then insurance, when it comes to insurance, that backdrop is very favorable, like for all the reasons Scott said, carriers are becoming more competitive for market share and policies.

就利潤率而言，我認為目前的情況與第四季基本持平，應該比較合理。利潤率會有波動，但我認為第四季總體來說是一個不錯的起點。至於保險業，目前的情況非常有利，正如史考特所說，保險公司為了爭奪市場份額和保單數量，競爭變得更加激烈。

They really want to grow policies. Their profitability is extremely strong. And with selective rate decreases coming through, that should spur additional traffic, which should support the CPL side of the house, the cost per lead. So the backdrop is really strong. Things we're doing, we're really focused on improving our margin. We're making some key investments in martech to make sure we grab more margin. And we're seeing a lot of that come through already in January and February in Q1.

他們確實希望拓展業務。他們的獲利能力非常強勁。隨著部分保費下調政策的出台，這將刺激流量成長，從而提升每次轉換成本（CPL）。因此，整體形勢非常樂觀。我們目前的工作重點是提高利潤率。我們正在行銷科技領域進行一些關鍵投資，以確保獲得更高的利潤。我們已經在第一季的1月和2月看到了這些投資帶來的成效。

We've noticed a material increase in margin from where we were in Q4, and we expect that generally to continue throughout the year. And so I think just candidly, we are running hotter than we expected in Q1 in insurance. And so the backdrop is favorable. We have no indications that it's going to slow down, but it's -- when it comes to the guide, we're also being a little bit cautious. It's only been two months.

我們注意到利潤率較第四季度有了顯著提升，預計這一趨勢將持續全年。坦白說，第一季保險業務的業績表現超乎預期。因此，整體情勢十分有利。目前沒有任何跡象顯示成長動能放緩，但就業績指引而言，我們也保持謹慎態度。畢竟，目前才過兩個月。

We kind of -- we don't want to bake in this very, very strong performance for the rest of the year yet. So to be totally candid, we are pulling that down a little bit and being a little bit more conservative just to be prudent when it comes to the insurance segment.

我們目前還不想過早地將今年剩餘時間的強勁業績完全消化。坦白說，我們正在適當地下調預期，在保險業務方面採取更保守的策略，以求謹慎行事。

And then like we said, we do want to allow ourselves room to spend in brand as it relates to the strategy. So I mean, I think that's generally some color on each of the pieces there. Hopefully, that's helpful.

正如我們之前所說，我們希望在品牌策略方面留出一定的預算空間。所以，我認為以上內容大致概括了各個方面。希望這些資訊對您有所幫助。

Jed Kelly, Oppenheimer & Co.

傑德凱利，奧本海默公司

Yes. Just -- can you just -- in your shareholder letter, can you kind of explain more of like what's going on with these trigger leads and how that benefits? And then kind of I'm kind of taking the last comments around the guidance, are we kind of coming into an environment when the insurance segment is just now a lot more predictable and easier for you guys to forecast than it has been in the last five years? Then I have a follow-up.

是的。您能否在致股東信中詳細解釋一下這些觸發式線索的具體情況以及它們帶來的益處？另外，關於業績指引，我想問的是，保險業是否正處於一個比過去五年更容易預測、更具可預測性的時期？我還有一個後續問題。

All right. I'll start with hitting on the trigger leads, Jed, and then we can go to the insurance. So the trigger leads is -- for those that don't know the trigger leads, the very basic version of that is when, for example, when we develop a lead and sell to our mortgage providers and then they do a hard credit poll to provide a firm offer to the consumers, then the credit bureaus will send -- it will trigger them.

好的。傑德，我先講講觸發線索，然後再講保險。觸發線索是指——對於那些不了解觸發線索的人來說，最簡單的解釋是，例如，當我們開發出一個潛在客戶並賣給我們的抵押貸款提供商，然後他們進行硬性信用調查以向消費者提供最終報價時，信用機構就會發送——這會觸發他們的信用報告。

That's why they call it trigger leads. They'll be triggered to sell it off to a bunch of like third-party buyers that we have no association with, our clients have no association with, but it's basically saying like, hey, this consumer just got a hard pull on their credit from an insurance -- from -- I'm sorry, a mortgage company.

這就是為什麼他們稱之為觸發式線索。他們會被觸發，把線索賣給一群我們和客戶都毫無關聯的第三方買家，但基本上就是說，嘿，這個消費者的信用記錄剛剛被保險公司——哦不，是抵押貸款公司——進行了一次硬性查詢。

So maybe you might want to call them to see if -- so it turns into a really horrible consumer experience where like they're about to close a mortgage and then all of a sudden, they're getting another 50 or 60 calls from -- who knows who.

所以，也許你可以給他們打個電話問問——結果卻變成了非常糟糕的消費體驗，比如他們即將完成抵押貸款，然後突然間，他們又接到了 50 或 60 個電話——誰知道是誰打來的。

So the long story short is Congress passed a bill that basically said that can no longer happen. And that's coming in, Jason, Andrew, I don't know the exact date. It's quick, this week that's coming out. So it helps us on the front end of the quality of our traffic because now you don't have our clients when they're giving their firm offers to the consumers, it's not triggering like 50 calls on the back end. So like that will really help the consumer experience and the quality of our leads to our direct clients.

簡而言之，國會通過了一項法案，基本上禁止這種情況再次發生。傑森、安德魯，這項法案即將生效，具體日期我還不清楚。應該很快，這週就會出台。這有助於提升我們前端流量的質量，因為現在我們的客戶在向消費者提供最終報價時，不會再觸發後端50通電話。所以，這將真正改善消費者體驗，並提高我們直接客戶的潛在客戶品質。

Secondly, how it helps us, there's a lot of buyers of these trigger leads that will no longer be able to buy these leads. And so we think that will drive many companies to come to buy these consumers on the front end from the likes of us, which should help our monetization. And I'm sorry, Jed, what was your second question around insurance?

其次，這對我們有好處，許多購買這些觸發式線索的買家將無法再購買這些線索。因此，我們認為這將促使許多公司轉而從像我們這樣的公司直接購買這些消費者，這應該有助於我們的獲利。抱歉，傑德，你關於保險的第二個問題是什麼？

Just are we kind of entering this period, like the predictability following like last five years of a decent amount of volatility?

我們是否正在進入這樣一個時期，就像過去五年相當大的波動之後，市場開始趨於穩定？

Yes. I think the short answer there is yes. It seems not that there is -- I mean, there will always be some level of carriers leaning in and leaning out, and that's why we manage a large network and keep all of that. But I do feel like the past two quarters has been -- there's been a lot more stability than maybe the previous eight quarters were, and I expect that to continue.

是的。我認為簡而言之，答案是肯定的。雖然看起來並非如此——我的意思是，營運商之間總會有進退兩難的情況，這也是我們管理龐大網路並維持營運的原因。但我確實感覺過去兩個季度比之前八個季度穩定得多，我預計這種情況會持續下去。

And I expect the changes in geographic targeting, demographic targeting, total ad spend to be a lot -- a lot lower swings than they've been in recent history. Jason, do you have anything to add to that?

我預期地理定位、人口統計定位以及廣告總支出的波動幅度將遠低於近期水準。傑森，你還有什麼要補充的嗎？

Yes. Yes, I agree. I would just add on like the market will be less defined by two carriers, I think, as we progress throughout 2026. As we said, we saw a lot of strong growth from the next seven carriers. And so as it becomes more competitive, as more carriers really start to come into the market and play a more prominent position in our market, we'll be less defined by a smaller number of carriers. So that should help with predictability.

是的，我同意。我只想補充一點，我認為隨著2026年的推進，市場將不再由兩家航空公司主導。正如我們所說，我們看到接下來的七家航空公司都實現了強勁成長。因此，隨著競爭加劇，隨著更多航空公司真正進入市場並在市場中佔據更重要的地位，市場將不再由少數幾家航空公司主導。這應該有助於提高市場的可預測性。

And can I just sneak one more in?

我可以再加一個嗎？

Sure.

當然。

Just we've had a drawdown in valuations in most of the sector. Can you just talk about -- I get wanting to get your debt down below $200 million and potentially maybe do buybacks. But can you talk about just potentially the acquisition landscape where you've seen valuations come in quite a bit with what's been going on over the last couple of months?

只是我們發現，大部分產業的估值都出現了下滑。您能談談—我理解您希望將債務降至2億美元以下，並可能進行股票回購。但您能否談談收購市場，因為在過去幾個月裡，您觀察到的估值下滑幅度相當大？

Sure. I'll start on that. And Jason, you can feel free to add in. I mean, there's -- it is a big priority for us to bring down our total debt load and especially as a multiple. So we are very focused on continuing to do that and looking at that. Jed, as you said, with valuations coming down pretty significantly across the board, there's no denying that, that makes opportunities out there become a lot more interesting. Now it's always the classic.

當然，我先從這方面入手。傑森，你也可以補充。我的意思是，降低總債務負擔，尤其是降低債務倍數，對我們來說至關重要。所以我們非常專注於繼續推進這項工作，並密切關注相關進展。傑德，正如你所說，隨著估值全面大幅下降，這無疑讓市場上的投資機會變得更加誘人。當然，這始終是老生常談。

It takes two to tango, right? You deal with a scenario where some others out there view that their value is way below where it should be, and that makes them less interested in M&A sort of activity, which I totally understand personally. But yes, that could -- yes, could potentially drive -- because if it sustains over a longer period of time, could it potentially drive consolidation?

一個巴掌拍不響，對吧？你得面對這樣一種情況：有些人認為自身的價值遠低於應有水平，這讓他們對併購活動不太感興趣，我個人完全理解。但是，是的，這可能會——確實有可能——推動行業整合，因為如果這種情況持續較長時間，最終會導致整合？

I think absolutely, it could. Are we interested in it? Yes. Are we aggressively pursuing it at this point in time? No.

我認為絕對有可能。我們對此感興趣嗎？是的。目前我們正在積極推進嗎？不。

Yes. I would just tack on our soft -- we had one-on-one soft call on our term loan. That was up in February. So we are free now to pay down debt at par. But kind of like we're saying here, like the uncertainty is significant out there.

是的。我還要補充一點，我們之前對定期貸款進行了一對一的軟性到期。這筆貸款在二月到期了。所以我們現在可以以面額償還債務。但就像我們剛才說的，目前存在著很大的不確定性。

So right now, when you have that much uncertainty, like let's just hold on cash. And let's -- for at least the short term here, like let's -- we're not going to pay down debt, we're going to accumulate cash and maintain flexibility, just given how dynamic things are at the moment.

所以現在，在如此多的不確定性下，我們最好還是持有現金。至少在短期內，我們不會償還債務，而是會累積現金，保持彈性，因為目前的情況瞬息萬變。

Mike Grondahl, Northland.

麥克·格倫達爾，北地。

Scott, if you could -- could you maybe talk about the visibility you have in the business today for revenue versus maybe six months or a year ago?

史考特，如果你方便的話，能否談談你目前對公司收入的可見性與六個月前或一年前相比有何不同？

Yes. Yes, sure. I mean, I think the visibility for revenue in '26 is pretty solid. I mean, I don't expect massive pendulum swings. I mean, I do think our ability to drive more consumer traffic at an outsized pace will continue to drive revenue growth because I think I would say pretty much every industry we're in right now, if we have the ability to drive more quality consumers at the existing monetization levels, our clients will keep buying those consumers and wanting to get their products in front of those consumers.

是的，當然。我的意思是，我認為2026年的收入前景相當樂觀。我不認為會出現大幅波動。我的意思是，我認為我們能夠以驚人的速度吸引更多消費者流量，這將繼續推動收入成長，因為我認為，在我們目前所處的幾乎所有行業中，如果我們能夠在現有的盈利水平下吸引更多優質消費者，我們的客戶就會繼續購買這些消費者，並希望將他們的產品展示給這些消費者。

So it's -- I would almost argue our revenue is much more dependent now on our ability to continue driving more and more consumers to our network than it is on clients opening up a lot more budget. And so that does go to like creating more predictability in the revenue.

所以，我幾乎可以肯定地說，我們現在的收入更取決於我們能否持續吸引更多消費者加入我們的網絡，而不是取決於客戶是否大幅增加預算。因此，這確實有助於提高收入的可預測性。

Got it. And on the mortgage side, not home equity now, but sort of mortgage purchase and refi, how close are we to a tipping point? I think last quarter, you talked about maybe 5.75%. Just kind of what's your thoughts there? How should we handicap that?

明白了。關於房貸方面，現在不是指房屋淨值貸款，而是指購屋抵押貸款和再融資，我們離臨界點還有多遠？我記得上個季度您提到可能是5.75%。您對此有什麼看法？我們該如何評估這個數字？

Yes. I mean, it's still -- it's nice seeing a 5 handle on the 30-year rate right now. I mean, that feels good. it's still too high to really drive a lot of consumer traffic on specifically the refi side, home purchase -- home purchase can be a lot more around just there's a lot bigger affordability issues more than just pure interest rates.

是的。我的意思是，現在看到30年利率穩定在5個百分點以內，感覺還是不錯的。這感覺很好。不過，目前的利率仍然太高，不足以真正刺激消費者進行再融資或購屋——購屋涉及的因素遠不止利率本身，還有許多其他方面的負擔能力問題。

But I mean, there's still like -- when people are stuck -- when people sit on a 2.5%, 3% interest rate, it's hard to convince them to go and buy a new house at a 6% rate or 5.98% or whatever it is. But I do think 5.75%, as we've mentioned on previous calls, that is where you really start to see the snowball start to build, where -- and there's -- the mortgage industry has lots of metrics that you can look at as well.

但我的意思是，當人們陷入困境，例如利率在2.5%或3%的時候，很難說服他們去買一套利率為6%或5.98%或其他任何利率的新房。但我認為，正如我們在之前的電話會議中提到的，5.75%的利率才是真正開始產生滾雪球效應的臨界點，而且抵押貸款行業也有很多指標可以參考。

But like the 5.75% is really where you have more and more homeowners in the money on a cash out refi. And then 5.5 -- at 5.5%, it really starts to build. And then if you get below 5%, it can really start being a tidal wave. But I mean, I think we're a ways away from that. So hopefully, that answers your question.

但像5.75%這樣的利率，確實會讓越來越多的房主透過套現再融資獲利。然後，到了5.5%——也就是5.5%的時候，這個趨勢就開始真正發展起來了。如果利率降到5%以下，那可能會掀起一股浪潮。不過，我覺得我們離那一步還很遠。希望這能解答你的疑問。

Youssef Squali, Truist Securities.

Youssef Squali，Truist Securities。

Scott, I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to provide actionable quotes for automated bots. And I think you singled out insurance. Can you maybe just expand on that a little bit, please?

史考特，我記得你在信裡提到過，合作夥伴沒有動力為自動機器人提供可操作的報價。而且你好像特別提到保險業了。能再詳細說說嗎？

I mean, I want to just -- I mean, insurance is a big one. I want to just single out insurance. I think there's a number of levels where there's incentivation to do it and then I would also say there's capability to do it. Starting on the incentivation front, and it's like you don't need AI or agentic AI for like these insurance companies, for example, they could have made their actuarial tables available as a commodity 20 years ago to Google if they wanted to.

我的意思是，我想說的是──保險業是一個很大的領域。我想單獨談談保險業。我認為在很多層面上，都有動力去做這件事，我認為他們也具備做這件事的能力。先說動力方面，例如，對於這些保險公司來說，你並不需要人工智慧或智能體人工智慧，如果他們願意的話，20年前他們就可以把精算表當作商品提供給Google了。

There was nothing stopping it from being embedded, but they've just -- they've built big brands. They consider their rate information probably the most proprietary thing that they have as a company. And so they have always been always, not just recently, extremely resistant to any sort of bot, agentic or not, like coming in and accessing their rate information.

雖然沒有任何理由阻止他們把資訊嵌入系統，但他們—他們已經打造了強大的品牌。他們認為自己的價格資訊可能是公司最核心的專有資訊。因此，他們一直以來，不僅僅是最近，都對任何形式的機器人（無論是否是代理程式）存取其價格資訊的行為抱持極大的抵觸情緒。

And all indications in our conversations is they -- I mean, they're very profitable. They are offering rates direct to consumers that they want to and writing a lot of policies and there's no real incentive or desire for them to really open the kimono there at the end of the day.

從我們的談話中可以看出，他們——我的意思是，他們非常賺錢。他們直接向消費者提供他們想要的費率，並簽訂了大量的保單，最終他們並沒有真正的動力或意願去真正敞開心扉。

And then there's a lot of insurance carriers that just simply aren't -- you go to their website today, you could not get a rate online. I would say the majority of carriers are that way. Those basically say like, hey, we're going to connect you to an agent or a call center rep, but you got to talk to someone over the phone or in person to get a rate.

還有很多保險公司根本不提供線上報價——你今天去他們的網站看看，根本無法在線上取得報價。我覺得大多數保險公司都是這樣。他們基本上會說，我們會幫你聯絡經紀人或客服代表，但你必須親自打電話或親自去才能拿到報價。

And a lot of that's just simple capabilities, technical capabilities of providing rates. And you go into the lending world, there's a lot of similarities in the lending world. A lot of our -- like small business lenders, for example, they don't even write direct to merchants. They write loans through brokers like us. So it's like deep API logged-in access we have to get their loan information, like these consumers won't even know that these companies exist outside of talking to us to get a loan.

很多時候，這只是簡單的技術能力問題，例如提供利率的能力。當你深入了解貸款產業，你會發現貸款產業有很多相似之處。例如，許多小型企業貸款機構甚至不直接向商家放貸，而是透過像我們這樣的經紀商發放貸款。因此，我們需要深度API登入權限才能獲得他們的貸款訊息，而這些消費者在與我們洽談貸款之前，甚至不知道這些公司的存在。

So I mean, -- so there's a bunch of hurdles from that side where I just don't think agentic AI overlay on going out and filling out a bunch of forms is really going to solve any consumers' problems anytime soon. in these industries specifically. you take like real estate, there's a lot of publicly available information there. So it's a little easier to implement like a ChatGPT app there.

所以我的意思是，——這方面存在著許多障礙，我認為僅僅依靠人工智慧助理去填寫一堆表格，並不能在短期內真正解決消費者的問題，尤其是在這些行業。以房地產為例，那裡有很多公開訊息，所以更容易實現類似 ChatGPT 這樣的應用程式。

And I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the conference back to Scott for closing remarks.

我沒有其他問題了。現在我想把會議交還給史考特，請他作總結發言。

All right. Thank you, everybody, for joining, for all of your questions today. I hope we've given you a helpful context around some of the incredible opportunities we're working on to enhance the marketplace. We're very excited about our path ahead and look forward to connecting with you again soon when we report our first quarter earnings.

好的。感謝各位的參與，也感謝大家今天提出的所有問題。希望我們今天能讓大家對我們正在努力推動、旨在提升市場的一些重要機會有所了解。我們對未來的發展方向充滿信心，期待在發布第一季財報時再次與大家交流。

And this concludes today's program. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

今天的節目到此結束。感謝您的參與。您可以斷開連線了。