Lendingtree Inc (TREE) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Lendingtree Inc. First quarter 2025 earnings conference call.(Operator Instructions)

您好，感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 Lendingtree Inc. 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。 （操作員指示）

Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Andrew Wessel, senior Vice President of investor relations and corporate development. Please go ahead.

請注意，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將會議交給今天的發言人、投資者關係和企業發展高級副總裁安德魯·韋塞爾 (Andrew Wessel)。請繼續。

Thank you, Dei, and hello to everyone joining us on the call to discuss our first quarter 2025 financial results. On with us today are Douglas Lebda, Lendingtree Chairman and CEO, Scott Peyree, COO and President of our marketplace businesses, and Jason Bengel, CFO. As a reminder to everyone, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our investor relations website before the start of this call, and for the purposes of today's discussion, we'll assume that listeners have read that letter and we'll focus on Q&A.

謝謝你，Dei，也向參加我們 2025 年第一季財務業績電話會議的各位問好。今天與我們一起出席的有 Lendingtree 董事長兼執行長 Douglas Lebda、我們的市場業務營運長兼總裁 Scott Peyree 以及財務長 Jason Bengel。提醒大家，我們在本次電話會議開始之前在投資者關係網站上發布了一封致股東的詳細信函，為了今天的討論，我們假設聽眾已經閱讀了這封信，我們將重點關注問答環節。

Before I hand the call over to Doug for his remarks, I remind everyone that during this call we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. Any forward-looking statements we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all, of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the FEC.

在我將電話交給 Doug 發表演說之前，我提醒大家，在這次通話中我們可能會討論 LendingTree 對未來績效的期望。我們所做的任何前瞻性陳述都受風險和不確定性的影響，LendingTree 的實際結果可能與今天表達的觀點有重大差異。我們面臨的許多風險（但不是全部風險）都在我們向聯邦選舉委員會提交的定期報告中進行了描述。

We'll also discuss a variety of non-gap measures on the call, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP. With that, Douglas Lebda.

我們還將在電話會議上討論各種非差距指標，我建議您參閱今天的新聞稿和股東信，它們都可以在我們的網站上找到，以獲取可比較的 GAAP 定義以及非 GAAP 指標與 GAAP 的完整對帳。這就是道格拉斯·萊布達。

Please go ahead.

請繼續。

Thank you, Andrew, and thank you all for joining us today for our first quarter update. al three of our business segments generated solid revenue growth in the 1st quarter. Adjusted to EBITA, however, came in just below our forecast, driven by temporary regulatory headwinds in our insurance business, and One-time expenses related to benefits and legal fees.

謝謝安德魯，也感謝大家今天參加我們的第一季更新報告。我們的三個業務部門在第一季都實現了穩健的收入成長。然而，經 EBITA 調整後，收入略低於我們的預測，這是由於我們的保險業務面臨暫時的監管阻力，以及與福利和法律費用相關的一次性支出。

We are now one month into the 2nd quarter, and we are seeing improvements in those areas. As a result, we are still forecasting strong adjusted EBITDA growth of 15% at the midpoint of our annual outlook that we updated today.

現在已經進入第二季一個月了，我們看到這些領域正在改善。因此，我們仍然預測，在我們今天更新的年度展望中點，調整後的 EBITDA 將強勁成長 15%。

As we discussed last quarter, our insurance segment was impacted by the FCC's pending 1 to 1 consent.

正如我們上個季度所討論的，我們的保險部門受到了聯邦通訊委員會即將達成的一對一同意的影響。

An appeals court rescinded that rule, and subsequent rulings have eliminated the possibility that it will be resurrected in the future.

上訴法院撤銷了該規定，後續裁決也消除了未來恢復該規定的可能性。

We expected a sharp recovery once we reverted back to our previous customer experience, but it has taken longer than anticipated. This disruption, combined with a marketing correction in the quarter from one specific carrier, led to a somewhat softer insurance performance than we had forecasted.

我們預計，一旦恢復到以前的客戶體驗，就會出現急劇復甦，但這花費的時間比預期的要長。這種中斷，加上本季某家特定保險公司的行銷調整，導致保險績效比我們預期的略低。

Despite the challenges, insurance still grew revenue 71% year over year in the first quarter, and we continue to forecast annual revenue and BMD growth for the segment.

儘管面臨挑戰，第一季保險收入仍年增 71%，我們繼續預測該部門的年度收入和 BMD 成長。

In lending, the consumer segment again benefited from growth in our small business and personal loan products. Our investment in the concierge sales team for small business has delivered significant benefits to our unit economics. Conversion rates have increased, and we have captured higher levels of renewal and renewal and lender bonus revenue as a result.

在貸款方面，消費者部門再次受益於我們的小型企業和個人貸款產品的成長。我們對小型企業禮賓銷售團隊的投資為我們的單位經濟帶來了顯著的效益。轉換率有所提高，因此我們獲得了更高水準的續約、續約和貸方獎金收入。

We expect small business will generate record revenue for us in 2025. Thanks to success in home equity lending, our home segment continues to produce great results in a difficult environment.

我們預計小型企業將在 2025 年為我們創造創紀錄的收入。由於房屋淨值貸款的成功，我們的房屋部門在困難的環境中繼續取得優異的業績。

Increased demand for home equity loans from both consumers and lenders is driving home segment performance. Prevailing high mortgage rates continue to suppress demand for new home buyers, and refinancing. However, slower growth of home prices and an increase in inventory of homes for sale should be helpful for the housing market going forward.

消費者和貸款機構對房屋淨值貸款的需求不斷增加，推動了房屋市場的表現。普遍的高抵押貸款利率繼續抑制新購房者和再融資的需求。不過，房價成長放緩和待售房屋庫存增加應該對未來的房地產市場有利。

As I mentioned at the beginning of my remarks, we had some one-time items and operating expenses in the 1st quarter. Going forward, we have offset those expected unexpected costs with savings identified in the zero-based budgeting process from last year.

正如我在演講開始時提到的，我們在第一季有一些一次性項目和營運費用。展望未來，我們將利用去年零基預算過程中確定的節省來抵消這些預期的意外成本。

We remain committed to carefully managing our operating expenses while maintaining the ability to invest in specific growth initiatives, enabling us to produce positive operating leverage on future revenue growth.

我們將繼續致力於謹慎管理我們的營運費用，同時保持投資於特定成長計劃的能力，使我們能夠在未來的收入成長中產生積極的營運槓桿。

I know tariffs are on everyone's mind, so I want to address that here quickly.

我知道大家都在關心關稅問題，所以我想在這裡快速談談這個問題。

Obviously we are a fully domestic company and we don't expect tariffs to have any direct impact on our business. Obviously there could be secondary effects with interest rates or significant inflation that may impact our business, but we stayed very close to our insurance and lending clients, and we don't have any immediate concerns.

顯然，我們是一家完全國內的公司，我們不希望關稅對我們的業務產生任何直接影響。顯然，利率或嚴重的通貨膨脹可能會產生副作用，影響我們的業務，但我們與保險和貸款客戶保持密切聯繫，因此我們沒有任何直接的擔憂。

And now operator, we're happy to answer any questions.

現在接線員，我們很樂意回答任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) .

（操作員指令）。

Ryan Tomasello, KBW

Ryan Tomasello，KBW

Hi everyone, thanks for taking the questions. Doug wanted to start on that last, point you made.

大家好，感謝你們回答問題。道格想從你提出的最後一點開始談。

If you could just elaborate, generally what you're hearing from your carrier partners on potential headwinds to profitability from tariffs and obviously, that I think the concern here is how that might impact demand for customer acquisition.

如果您可以詳細說明一下，一般來說，您從運營商合作夥伴那裡聽到的有關關稅可能給盈利能力帶來的阻力是什麼，顯然，我認為這裡的擔憂是這可能會如何影響客戶獲取的需求。

And just given all that uncertainty, how you're thinking about the guidance here, what you're baking in, especially for the back half of the year. Thanks.

考慮到所有這些不確定性，您如何看待這裡的指導，您計劃做什麼，特別是針對今年下半年。謝謝。

Yeah, I'm going to let Scott handle that. He's in Seattle and I know he's closer to the insurance clients. So Scott, take it away.

是的，我會讓史考特來處理這件事。他在西雅圖，我知道他離保險客戶更近。所以斯科特，把它拿走。

Yeah, sure, Ryan, to answer your question there, we've been staying pretty close and having conversations with our major clients on the insurance side. There's definitely Concern around tariffs and what they might do, but They generally, I would say generally all feel pretty good about where they're at today from profitability perspective, all of the work they've done over the past few years to get their rates in a good spot from the inflation work because they're probably in a better profitability position today than they've been in the past 3 to 5 years.

是的，當然，瑞安，回答你的問題，我們一直與保險方面的主要客戶保持密切聯繫並進行對話。人們肯定對關稅及其可能採取的措施感到擔憂，但總的來說，我想說，從盈利能力的角度來看，他們對目前的狀況感覺相當滿意，過去幾年他們為使利率在通脹壓力下處於良好位置所做的所有工作，因為他們今天的盈利狀況可能比過去 3 到 5 年要好。

So, they're kind of starting at a good point. They're monitoring closely. I think what you'll see out there is where A number of carriers might have started reducing rates for a lot of consumers this year. That's probably not going to happen as they take a more cautious approach.

所以，他們的起點不錯。他們正在密切監視。我想你會看到，許多業者今年可能已經開始為許多消費者降低費率。由於他們採取了更謹慎的態度，這種情況可能不會發生。

I feel like a lot of the carriers have told us they feel like they can get out in front of any potential inflationary impacts from tariffs to maintain a good spot. So I think the general response from carriers has been they feel like they're going to be able to deal with the impacts of tariffs within enough time that it won't really affect their marketing strategies.

我覺得很多承運商都告訴我們，他們覺得自己可以避開關稅帶來的任何潛在通膨影響，從而保持良好的地位。因此，我認為承運商的普遍反應是，他們覺得自己能夠在足夠的時間內應對關稅的影響，因此不會真正影響他們的行銷策略。

Great. And then I guess maybe just digging deeper into that and maybe expanding broadly, what you're kind of baking into the revised guidance here, your haircutting the top line by about 3 points, it looks like.

偉大的。然後我想也許只是深入研究這個問題並且可能廣泛地擴展，你在這裡修改後的指導方針中融入了什麼，看起來你的頂線被削減了大約 3 個百分點。

That's being offset by stronger variable margins. So just unpacking the moving pieces there, what you're baking it from a macro standpoint.

但這一影響被更高的可變利潤所抵消。因此，只需解開那裡的移動部件，從宏觀角度烘烤它。

Just across the different pieces of the guidance, thanks.

只是跨越了指導的不同部分，謝謝。

Yeah, it's Jason. I can take that one, just first of all, on the macro point, we're not baking in anything, one way or the other from a macro standpoint. That's just something that we're going to have to monitor. We're going to have to monitor delinquencies, combined ratios on the carrier side, consumer spending to make sure shopping, remains stable, but like Scott said, we and Doug said we don't have any indications today that there's that there's tightening happening.

是的，是傑森。我可以接受這一點，首先，從宏觀角度來看，我們不會以任何方式融入任何東西。這只是我們必須監控的事情。我們將不得不監控拖欠情況、承運商方面的綜合比率以及消費者支出，以確保購物保持穩定，但就像斯科特所說的那樣，我們和道格說，我們今天沒有任何跡象表明正在發生緊縮。

So as far as the guide goes, that's just going to have to be something that we continue to monitor, and I can talk through each segment a little bit to give some more color around the guide, and just starting with home, we expect strong continued home equity growth to continue that we've seen, on the rate side, rates have been moving around quite a bit. We're not expecting any change to the rate environment from where it is today in the home segment.

因此，就指南而言，這只是我們必須持續監控的事情，我可以稍微討論一下每個部分，以便為指南提供更多細節，就從房屋開始，我們預計強勁的房屋淨值增長將繼續下去，在利率方面，利率一直在大幅波動。我們預期房屋市場的利率環境不會有任何變化。

Consumer from where it is the Q1, Q2 and Q3 tend to be a stronger seasonal, quarters for consumer, so we do expect some improvement from Q1 moving into Q2 and Q3 and consumer.

從第一季、第二季和第三季來看，消費者的季節性特徵更為明顯，因此我們預期第一季、第二季和第三季的消費者表現將會有所改善。

We're not again we're not expecting any, we're not contemplating any macro change on the consumer side, that is something that we're going to watch.

我們再次強調，我們並不期待任何變化，我們也沒有考慮消費者方面的任何宏觀變化，這是我們將要關注的事情。

On the insurance side, we do expect incremental improvement from where we are today. We're not expecting any impact from tariffs, like Scott said, but we do expect to improve better, perform better from where we are. We've had a lot of, positive conversations with the carriers, and we're pretty optimistic that budgets are going to increase from where we are, so. The back half of the second half of the year should perform better than the first half of the year for insurance in particular.

在保險方面，我們確實期望在現有基礎上逐步改善。正如斯科特所說，我們預計關稅不會產生任何影響，但我們確實希望在現有基礎上取得更好的進步，表現得更好。我們與營運商進行了很多積極的對話，我們非常樂觀地認為預算將會在現有基礎上增加。尤其是保險業，下半年的表現應該會比上半年更好。

Expenses were a little bit high in Q1. We do expect them to modestly come down in Q2 and the rest of the year going forward. So that'll provide a little bit more help in the back half as well.

第一季的支出有點高。我們確實預計它們在第二季以及今年剩餘時間內會小幅下降。所以這也會為後半部提供更多的幫助。

And generally speaking, the business model is very resilient, with the two sided marketplace if you know there's a change in lender or carrier demand, there are marketing offsets to that both up and down as you guys know, so you know we can we can weather volatility at the same time.

一般來說，這種商業模式非常有彈性，在雙邊市場中，如果你知道貸方或承運人的需求發生了變化，那麼就會有行銷抵消，無論好壞，所以你知道我們可以同時抵禦波動。

Unless there's a shock to the system where either lenders aren't lending or, carriers aren't writing policies, the company is in, is generally in good shape and if anything, some of this stuff could cause interest rates to move around and if they go up then they'll go down and if they go down that's even better and that'll certainly. Help the business and you know even weakening the econo weakening in the economy obviously helps right so you know there's lots of different offsets and but unless there's a big shock, we can adjust pretty easily.

除非系統受到衝擊，貸款人不再放貸，或者保險公司不再簽發保單，否則公司總體狀況良好，如果有的話，其中一些因素可能會導致利率波動，如果利率上升，就會下降，如果利率下降，那就更好了，這肯定會。幫助企業，你知道，即使經濟疲軟，經濟疲軟顯然也有幫助，所以你知道有很多不同的抵消措施，但除非出現重大衝擊，否則我們可以輕鬆地進行調整。

Okay, I appreciate all the color. Thanks guys.

好的，我很欣賞所有的顏色。謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Campbell, Stephens Inc.

約翰坎貝爾，史蒂芬斯公司

Hey guys, good afternoon.

大家好，下午好。

Good afternoon, Sergeant.

下午好，中士。

Hey, so I just want to touch, I guess starting here on SMB, if my math is right, I think you guys got to about $20 million or so in the quarter. You mentioned the shareholder letter you expect the, record SMB rep for the year. If I annualize that, I think it's going to be well above your record. So just remind us again, I guess on the seasonality of that business and maybe just more direct if you feel like you can hold near that quarterly level for the balance of the year.

嘿，所以我只是想提一下，我想從 SMB 開始，如果我的數學沒錯的話，我認為你們在本季度的收入大約是 2000 萬美元左右。您提到了您期望的股東信，記錄了今年的中小企業代表。如果我將其按年計算，我認為它將遠遠高於您的記錄。因此，請再次提醒我們，我猜想這取決於該業務的季節性，如果您覺得您可以在全年餘額中保持在該季度水平附近，那麼也許會更直接。

I'm seeing puzzled looks here on the faces of our finance geniuses, so, let's, see who's talk about it you hit it generally while we make sure you have the numbers right. Yeah, so.

我看到我們的金融天才們臉上露出了困惑的表情，所以，讓我們看看誰在談論它，你們通常會談到它，同時我們確保你們的數字是正確的。是的，是這樣。

I, yeah, Jason can maybe hit on the specifics as far as like our revenue projections this year compared to our previous all-time highs, but hitting on the seasonality, there's definitely seasonality throughout the year on small business as you kind of go into like for example.

是的，傑森也許可以具體談談我們今年的收入預測與之前的歷史最高水平的比較，但談到季節性，例如，小型企業全年肯定存在季節性。

Heading into the holidays, you'll have a lot of, small businesses looking for inventory loans and whatnot. But I would say in general, there's so many different types of small businesses looking for loans for different types of reasons that it will smooth out in in general throughout the year. And I would say just our growth, we've seen.

進入假期，許多小型企業都會尋求庫存貸款等等。但我想說，總的來說，有很多不同類型的小企業出於不同的原因尋求貸款，因此全年總體而言，這種情況會趨於平穩。我想說的是，我們已經看到了我們的成長。

Growing our direct sales staff has been very successful, as Doug mentioned at the top of the meeting, the economics are much better when we write the business directly. We've at the same time been able to grow our consumer lead flow quite a bit, so there's lots of small businesses out there.

我們的直銷人員隊伍的成長非常成功，正如 Doug 在會議開始時所提到的那樣，當我們直接開展業務時，經濟效益要好得多。同時，我們的消費者主導流量也大幅成長，因此市場上有許多小型企業。

There's a lot more today coming through our network than we had a year ago, and we plan on that continuing to grow over time. We're adding more lenders onto the network, so that should provide us more options, to provide loans, to the merchants and businesses.

如今，透過我們的網路傳輸的數據比一年前多了不少，而且我們計劃隨著時間的推移繼續增長。我們正在為網路中添加更多貸款人，以便為商家和企業提供更多貸款選擇。

As time goes on, so I mean, I think we've got a lot of tailwinds in the small business world. There's, there, there's a little bit concern around all of the political stuff going on as far as these small businesses kind of.

隨著時間的推移，我的意思是，我認為我們在小企業世界中已經獲得了很多順風。人們對這些小企業所發生的所有政治事件都有些擔心。

Get a little bit more conservative.

變得更加保守一些。

We're not seeing it that at a real macro level as of yet. Maybe the average loan size is slightly less than we would historically expect over the past 30 to 45 days. But the data is a little bit thin there. It's nothing significant enough that we would change any expectations going forward. I think I would say in general we're very happy with where we're at and where we're projecting the small business, category to be over the next year plus.

到目前為止，我們還沒有在真正的宏觀層面上看到這一點。也許過去 30 到 45 天的平均貸款規模略低於我們的歷史預期。但那裡的數據有點少。這並沒有什麼重大到需要我們改變未來期望的程度。我想說的是，總的來說，我們對目前的狀況以及我們對未來一年及以後小型企業類別的預測感到非常滿意。

Yeah, and my take on it would be we're still very small, we're growing if you grow the lender network, you're going to grow your union economics, which means you can go market more and we're growing off such a small base.

是的，我的看法是，我們的規模仍然很小，但如果你擴大貸款人網絡，我們的規模就會增長，你的聯盟經濟也會增長，這意味著你可以進入更多的市場，而我們是在如此小的基礎上實現增長的。

This is the most probably complicated, most complicated and opaque. Underwriting, of all the products that loan products that there are, which means it's kind of the last to come online. It's kind of fun to have a small grower again, that's, getting big, to the $20 million a quarter you guys want to talk about that these numbers?

這可能是最複雜、最繁瑣、最不透明的。承保，在所有貸款產品中，這意味著它是最後一個上線的產品。再次擁有一個小種植者是件很有趣的事，也就是說，發展壯大，達到每季 2000 萬美元，你們想談談這些數字嗎？

Yeah, I mean, the, generally your math is right, and you know we do expect continued strength in this. We are leaning in like Scott said, we're hiring, concierge reps as those unit economics work out.

是的，我的意思是，總體來說你的計算是正確的，而且你知道我們確實預計這種勢頭會持續下去。正如史考特所說，我們正在努力招募禮賓代表，以達到單位經濟效益。

So I think the other thing to point out that this is a very profitable vertical of ours, so as it continues to grow, it should provide more and more margin support for us. So I, yeah, I mean, I think we're optimistic about the rest of the year, performance around small business.

因此，我認為另一件需要指出的事情是，這是我們的一個非常有利可圖的垂直領域，因此隨著它的不斷發展，它應該為我們提供越來越多的利潤支持。所以，是的，我的意思是，我認為我們對今年剩餘時間小企業的表現持樂觀態度。

Okay, that's helpful. And then on the mortgage marketplace, I mean, obviously that used to be like the core business for you guys, and you know it's been largely dormant. Obviously the macro has been incredibly tough and a couple of years ago I think you guys had $376 million in that business.

好的，這很有幫助。然後在抵押貸款市場，我的意思是，顯然這曾經是你們的核心業務，但你知道它基本上處於休眠狀態。顯然，宏觀經濟狀況非常嚴峻，幾年前，我認為你們在該業務上的投資為 3.76 億美元。

Last year was $40 million, so it feels like that is a growth driver, one of these days. So I'm just curious about. You know what you guys are thinking about as far as like the, a level of mortgage rates where you feel like that could start to unlock, some values, maybe unlock a little bit of growth for you guys.

去年是 4000 萬美元，所以感覺這會成為未來的成長動力。所以我只是好奇。你知道你們在考慮什麼嗎？就抵押貸款利率水平而言，你們認為這可能會開始釋放一些價值，也許會為你們帶來一點成長。

I don't have a specific number, but you're definitely right, it should be a, huge growth driver and is largely, in many ways, stuck from a refinance standpoint, that's why Home equity is a great substitution product for lenders and consumers in this type of an environment, so you really need to look at it in total, I don't know what the amount is.

我沒有具體的數字，但你肯定是對的，它應該是一個巨大的增長動力，並且在很大程度上，在很多方面，從再融資的角度來看，這就是為什麼房屋淨值是這種環境下貸方和消費者的絕佳替代產品，所以你真的需要從總體上來看，我不知道這個數額是多少。

Scott, I don't know if any of you guys have a specific number, but, it's going to happen it's going to happen someday, and the good news is this time around I think, technology will enable more loans to go through the pipes which will mean that you know you won't have lenders shutting down as much as they had to last time. I think this the mortgage process become much less manual, Scott.

斯科特，我不知道你們中是否有人知道一個具體的數字，但是，它總有一天會發生，好消息是，這一次，我認為技術將使更多的貸款能夠通過渠道發放，這意味著你知道不會有貸款機構像上次那樣關閉。我認為這會使抵押貸款流程不再那麼手動，斯科特。

Yeah, I just had it, yeah, you're 100% correct when you say the combination of refinance, cash out refinance, new purchase is a massive business for us in the good times that that has been dormant over the past few years. Home equity is really the driver of the growth we're seeing right now, even though our and refinance business is growing, but it's coming off of, as you said, pretty low levels last year.

是的，我剛剛聽到了，是的，你說的 100% 正確，再融資、現金再融資、新購買的組合對我們來說在景氣時期是一項巨大的業務，但在過去幾年中這項業務一直處於休眠狀態。儘管我們的再融資業務正在成長，但房屋淨值確實是我們目前看到的成長動力，但正如您所說，它已經從去年相當低的水平回落。

You, a lot of what I hear in the industry is if you get interest rates to a 5 handle, if you're 30 years starts with a 5.

我在這個行業聽到的很多說法是，如果你把利率提高到 5 倍，如果你的 30 年期限從 5 開始。

You're probably going to see a seismic shift in the industry, with dramatic growth returning. So in the meantime, we just, we're growing and doing what we can and working hard with our clients and making sure we have a good distribution network. I mean, the demand for our product is very high. It's more just about the number of consumers that are looking for those products right now.

您可能會看到該行業發生巨大變化，並大幅成長。因此，與此同時，我們正在不斷發展，盡我們所能，與客戶一起努力，確保我們擁有良好的分銷網絡。我的意思是，我們的產品需求量非常高。這更多的只是關於現在正在尋找這些產品的消費者數量。

Okay, thanks guys.

好的，謝謝大家。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Jed Kelly, Oppenheimer & Co.

傑德凱利，奧本海默公司

Hey, great, thanks for taking my questions. Just back on insurance, can you kind of give us a sense how we should think about the VMM margin as revenue starts to normalize in that segment and then just get on insurance, how should we view the home segment? I know auto is still the main portion, but you know it seems like homes attractive market as well thanks.

嘿，太好了，謝謝你回答我的問題。回到保險話題，您能否告訴我們，當保險領域的收入開始正常化時，我們該如何看待 VMM 利潤率？然後談談保險，我們該如何看待家庭保險領域？我知道汽車仍然是主要部分，但你知道住宅市場似乎也很有吸引力，謝謝。

Yes, just starting on the VMM side, and I'll say today what I've said the past couple of earnings calls is I think as things normalize over time, low to mid-30s is where we want to be on the VMM side. We started, we had some good improvements in Q4.

是的，剛從 VMM 方面開始，今天我要說的是我在過去幾次財報電話會議上說過，我認為隨著時間的推移，情況會逐漸正常化，我們希望 VMM 方面達到 30 多歲的水平。我們開始了，在第四季度取得了一些良好的進展。

I think some of the points that Doug talked about at the at the top of the call as far as like the SLC had ones, we had some carrier budget shifts. So some new technology bugs that that happened in our system we had a little bit of a setback in Q1, but those were one time events that that we were working through and solving and so we're going back to optimizing that but low to mid-thirties is where we would expect to be long term and normalized rate and I think we'll be there sooner rather than later.

我認為 Doug 在電話會議開始時談到的一些觀點與 SLC 類似，我們的營運商預算也發生了一些變化。因此，我們的系統中出現的一些新的技術錯誤讓我們在第一季遇到了一些挫折，但這些都是一次性事件，我們正在努力解決，因此我們將重新進行最佳化，但 30% 到 35% 左右是我們預期的長期正常化率，我認為我們很快就會實現這一目標。

And then just say answering the question on home insurance, yes, that's absolutely. That's a very popular product. It's a growing product for us. And it, I even feel like the first quarter there, there's there was even more growth there than we expected, as the carriers are getting more and more interested in driving growth via home insurance. So yeah, so that's correct. That's a, that's a good industry right now.

然後就家庭保險的問題進行回答，是的，絕對是這樣。那是一種非常受歡迎的產品。對我們來說，這是一個正在成長的產品。我什至覺得第一季的成長甚至超出了我們的預期，因為保險公司對透過家庭保險來推動成長越來越感興趣。是的，這是正確的。這是目前一個很好的行業。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And then maybe just to touch on the guy that, we do expect, like we said, insurance to improve from where it is today. We do expect margin, to improve from where it is today, not yet in the more normalized levels that Scott mentioned, but we do expect continued improvement.

然後也許只是談談那個人，我們確實期望，就像我們所說的那樣，保險業會比現在有所改善。我們確實預計利潤率會從目前的水平提高，雖然還沒有達到斯科特提到的更正常的水平，但我們確實預計利潤率會繼續提高。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Melissa Wedel, J.P. Morgan

梅麗莎‧韋德爾，摩根大通

Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I wanted to start on the home segment, margin.

午安.感謝您回答我的問題。我想從家庭部分、保證金開始。

It came in a little bit stronger than we were expecting, and I guess the question would be is there any reason to think that that would inflect lower or is this sort of the run rate, particularly with home equity demand right now?

它比我們預期的要強勁一些，我想問題是，是否有理由認為它會下降，或者這是一種運行率，特別是在目前的房屋淨值需求下？

Yeah, I mean, I, we are generally expecting that to be sustainable going forward and home equity monetization is just really strong and that's a function of, this is a product that works really well for consumers and it works really well for lenders. On the lender side, true home equity, the loan amounts are lower, so that, that's a negative for lender unity economics.

是的，我的意思是，我們普遍預計這種情況將持續下去，而且房屋淨值貨幣化非常強勁，這是對消費者和貸方都非常有效的產品。從貸款方來看，真實的房屋淨值，貸款金額較低，這對貸款方的統一經濟學來說是不利的。

But the close rates are just so much higher that the lender economics really work because that's a product that works for the consumer. So a lot of this margin improvement is just a function of the unit economics that we've, that we've attained, building out that network and we do expect them generally to be in that range going forward.

但收盤利率如此之高，以至於貸款人的經濟效益確實很好，因為這是一種適合消費者的產品。因此，利潤率的提高很大程度上只是我們透過建設網絡而實現的單位經濟效益的結果，我們確實預計未來利潤率總體上會保持在這個範圍內。

Yeah, and I would just add on there's been no intentional effort to expand margins there. I, as Jason said, we're within a range we're comfortable with works for us, works for our clients.

是的，我只想補充一點，那裡並沒有刻意努力擴大利潤率。正如傑森所說，我們處於一個適合我們自己、適合我們的客戶的範圍內。

Yeah if.

是的，如果。

If demand for volume shot up tomorrow so much and we had to like step on the marketing gas you'd see percentages decrease but other than that we feel good.

如果明天對銷售的需求大幅增加，我們不得不加強行銷力度，你會看到百分比下降，但除此之外，我們感覺良好。

Okay, appreciate that.

好的，非常感謝。

We've touched on this a little bit about the volatility that we've seen post quarter end, but it's been more from the perspective of where you're hearing from network partners. I'm curious if you're seeing anything different in terms of changes in consumer behavior and search on your platform in the last month. Any conclusions you can draw from that? Thanks.

我們已經稍微談到了季度末之後出現的波動，但更多的是從網路合作夥伴的角度來談。我很好奇，在過去的一個月裡，您是否發現您的平台上的消費者行為和搜尋發生了哪些變化。您可以從中得出什麼結論嗎？謝謝。

I would say consumer demand across most of our products has remained pleasantly strong. We have not, we have not seen a significant reduction in demand as a byproduct.

我想說的是，消費者對我們大多數產品的需求仍然強勁。我們沒有，我們沒有看到需求作為副產品而大幅減少。

Of consumer sentiment, I would say. The one category that we probably have seen a little bit less demand is again, getting back to the mortgage, the purchase and refinance traffic. That's a major product for consumers tour and I think there is.

我想說的是消費者情緒。我們可能再次看到需求略有下降的一個類別是抵押貸款、購買和再融資流量。這是針對消費者旅遊的一個主要產品，我認為有。

A little bit of cautionary approach that that has affected the amount of consumers searching for those products over recent history, but as we're, I was talking about earlier, that's already kind of at a low dormant point, so it's one of our lower consumer traffic areas right now. All of our other product lines right now, I would say that the consumer volume is coming right in where we would expect it to be in normal times.

需要採取一些謹慎的態度，因為這影響了近期搜尋這些產品的消費者數量，但正如我之前提到的，這已經處於一種低休眠點，所以它是目前我們消費者流量較低的區域之一。目前，我們所有其他產品線的消費量都達到了我們預期的正常水平。

Yeah and I and it's broad based it's you know all loan types our marketing's working well in all channels our content strategy is working well people are engaging with our content, we're appearing well and, merging AI results, so, yeah, we feel good about where we are with the consumer.

是的，而且它的基礎很廣泛，你知道所有貸款類型，我們的行銷在所有管道都運作良好，我們的內容策略運作良好，人們正在參與我們的內容，我們表現良好，並融合了人工智慧的結果，所以，是的，我們對與消費者的關係感到滿意。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Ryan Thomasello, KBW.

瑞安·托馬塞洛（Ryan Thomasello），KBW。

Hi everyone, thanks again. I guess just entertaining more of the downside risk on macro, you guys have done a good job historically of managing to the bottom line, by pulling some expense levers.

大家好，再次感謝。我想，只是考慮到宏觀經濟的下行風險，你們透過拉動一些費用槓桿，在管理底線方面做得很好。

I guess maybe you could just help us understand how much of those levers still remain to help, protect earnings power to the extent macro does move against us here. Thanks.

我想也許你可以幫助我們了解，在宏觀經濟對我們不利的範圍內，還有多少槓桿可以幫助、保護獲利能力。謝謝。

Yeah, I'll just, I'll start and then Jay can put a finer point on it, but we made it with everything possibly going against us and costs high. I think our worst year was 198. That was our truck give or take, so that, that's, that was its worst, as I think about the puts and takes, the insurance inflation, and when the insurance companies could like on the lending side.

是的，我只是開始，然後傑伊可以對此進行更詳細的闡述，但我們在一切可能對我們不利並且成本高昂的情況下做到了這一點。我認為我們最糟糕的一年是 198 年。這就是我們的卡車的情況，所以，那是最糟糕的情況，因為我考慮到了收益和風險、保險通膨以及保險公司何時可以從貸款方面獲得利益。

I don't know what could significantly change there that would.

我不知道什麼能為那裡帶來重大改變。

Make that business change in size downside dramatically on the insurance side, we had that in the issue of insurance companies chasing inflation.

讓保險業務規模發生大幅下滑，我們在保險公司追逐通膨的問題上就遇到這種情況。

I mean you'd have to have really rampant long term inflation again to be doing that.

我的意思是，你必須再次經歷真正猖獗的長期通貨膨脹才能做到這一點。

And I, we hopefully we see it coming and then on the cost side, yes, there are always costs you can do because we're always investing so like right now you know we're spending, everybody here is working on things that are positive BMD projects to keep the company going but it lower unit economics

我希望我們能看到它的到來，然後在成本方面，是的，你總是可以做到成本，因為我們一直在投資，所以就像現在你知道我們在花錢，這裡的每個人都在致力於積極的 BMD 項目，以保持公司繼續發展，但它降低了單位經濟效益

If you know your insurance is. You an economics bust or your home bust, then you don't do those projects and you pull back on those and you, so there are more levers, Jason, you could put a finer point on it if you wanted to, and by the way, like.

如果您知道您的保險是。如果你的經濟崩潰或家庭破產，那麼你就不會做這些項目，你會撤回這些項目，所以有更多的槓桿，傑森，如果你願意的話，你可以把它做得更精細，順便說一句，就像。

We don't think we have to. We feel like right now we've got a workforce that the fixed costs are fixed and the variable ones can float, and we know where the fixed costs are and we know where everybody's working on and the zero-based budgeting really helped with that and then any anything incremental from here is really going to be tracked, Jason.

我們認為我們沒有必要這麼做。我們覺得現在我們擁有一支勞動力隊伍，其固定成本是固定的，而可變成本可以浮動，我們知道固定成本在哪裡，我們知道每個人的工作內容，零基預算確實對此有所幫助，然後從這裡開始的任何增量都將被跟踪，傑森。

Yeah, I mean, yeah, like Doug said I think we've invested in zero-based budgeting, I mean across the whole management team, and so, through that process. We've identified, the core of the business that we absolutely need to generate BMD and, satisfy legal and regulatory obligations and, we are then able to see very clearly above that, where are we spending money.

是的，我的意思是，是的，就像 Doug 所說的那樣，我認為我們已經投資了零基預算，我的意思是整個管理團隊，所以，透過這個過程。我們已經確定了業務的核心，我們絕對需要產生 BMD 並滿足法律和監管義務，然後我們就能非常清楚地看到我們把錢花在哪裡了。

And are we happy with what we're getting in in return for spending that money? And so, should push come to shove, I think we have a pretty detailed understanding of our cost base and, we should be able to react, the name of the game is. Being quick, especially in a business like this, so to the extent that we see an opportunity out there to lean into a marketing channel or lean into more concierge reps and small business,

我們對於花掉這些錢後得到的回報滿意嗎？因此，如果遇到困難，我認為我們對我們的成本基礎有相當詳細的了解，我們應該能夠做出反應，這就是遊戲的名稱。速度要快，尤其是在這樣的行業中，所以我們看到了一個機會，可以依靠行銷管道或依靠更多的禮賓代表和小型企業，

We will do that very quickly and monitor it very closely and then and then if it doesn't work out then, we'll react to that, but should things turn down, I think we should be able to respond well with expense savings.

我們會非常迅速地採取行動並密切監控，然後，如果沒有奏效，我們會做出反應，但如果情況惡化，我認為我們應該能夠透過節省開支做出良好的反應。

And also, there is a significant part of our variable compensation in the cost base that'll naturally decrease with decreasing top line. So, overall, I think we feel pretty good about our understanding and ability to execute any savings that we might need.

此外，我們的成本基礎中有很大一部分的變動薪酬會隨著營業收入下降而自然減少。因此，總的來說，我認為我們對自己的理解以及執行可能需要的任何儲蓄的能力感到非常滿意。

And then obviously the ultimate lever if you, don't have demand in one of your products is marketing spend and then you you're pulling back marketing spend, as your unit economics go down, and you know you could even go farther than that you could not do any paid marketing if you had to for a period of time and live off your organic and name recognition and SEO like you know there's a lot of options in a in a horrible scenario and.

顯然，如果您的某種產品沒有需求，那麼您最終的槓桿就是行銷支出，然後隨著單位經濟效益的下降，您就會撤回行銷支出，您甚至可能走得更遠，如果您必須在一段時間內無法進行任何付費行銷，只能依靠有機成長、知名度和搜尋引擎優化來維持生計，您知道，在可怕的情況下有很多選擇。

We've been we've been able to navigate those before and you know each of the each of these individual products can be cyclical, but they're the two sides of the marketplace you always need to keep in mind and there's always the marketing and they generally work together.

我們之前就已經能夠駕馭這些，你知道這些單獨的產品中的每一個都可能是周期性的，但它們是市場的兩個方面，你始終需要牢記，而且總是有營銷，它們通常是協同工作的。

And then one more for me regarding the quote wizard litigation, how much can you say just how much you have fully reserved for that after the $15 million you took this past quarter.

然後，我再問一個關於 Quote Wizard 訴訟的問題，您能說一下在上個季度拿出 1500 萬美元之後，您為該訴訟預留了多少錢嗎？

And how confident you are that you know you're fully covered for the potential outcomes there. Thanks.

並且，您是否確信自己已完全覆蓋可能出現的結果？謝謝。

Yeah, it's Jason. I'll take that one.

是的，是傑森。我要那個。

We talked about this previously on other calls, and, this is related to Manta. Quote wizard has reached a settlement in principle in the Manta versus Quote wizard matter which involves class TCPA claims related to activity from 2019.

我們之前在其他電話會議上討論過這個問題，這與 Manta 有關。引用 wizard 已就 Manta v Quote wizard 一案達成原則性和解，該案涉及與 2019 年活動相關的 TCPA 集體索賠。

The details of the settlement will be made public in the near term when the appropriate filings are made with the court. But to answer your question directly, we have a liability on the balance sheet of $19 million in this quarter.

和解協議的具體細節將在向法院提交適當文件後於近期公佈。但直接回答你的問題，本季我們的資產負債表上有 1900 萬美元的負債。

It's important to note that this $19 million is payable in three equal installments, the first being in Q4 of this year, the second in Q1 of 2026, and the final in Q2 of 2026. So these, we have reached a settlement with regard to this, it has to be confirmed. With court, but we have reached a settlement with it and the payments are due after we are due to repay the convert in July, which I think is important to call out.

值得注意的是，這 1,900 萬美元將分三期等額支付，第一期於今年第四季支付，第二期於 2026 年第一季支付，最後一期於 2026 年第二季支付。因此，我們已經就此達成和解，這一點需要確認。雖然我們已經與法院達成和解，但付款將在我們於 7 月償還轉換費用後到期，我認為這一點很重要。

Great, thanks for the details.

太好了，謝謝你的詳細資料。

Thank you.

謝謝。

John Campbell, Stephens Inc.,

約翰·坎貝爾（John Campbell），史蒂芬斯公司

Hey guys, thanks, just one more for me. I've noticed in the annual filing some commentary about the student loan business that you guys are potentially looking to.

嘿夥計們，謝謝，我再來一個。我注意到年度文件中有一些關於你們可能正在考慮的學生貸款業務的評論。

Options there, so maybe if we can get an update on that.

那裡有選項，所以也許我們可以獲得有關它的更新。

Yeah, the, I mean we've largely gotten out of the student loan business. That's been a declining business for the past few years, so we are not doing any more direct marketing.

是的，我的意思是我們已經基本上退出學生貸款業務了。過去幾年，這項業務一直在下滑，所以我們不再進行任何直接行銷。

Into that business just based off of client demand.

進入該業務僅基於客戶需求。

And obviously that could change if the yeah if you know the if the student loan refi market comes back that's easy to start marketing again and doing it but right now we're just we're not seeing low demand.

顯然，如果學生貸款再融資市場復甦，情況可能會發生變化，這很容易再次開始行銷並實施，但目前我們只是沒有看到低需求。

Okay, so on hold for now, but, any rough sense for revenue impact year over year, what you guys put up last year.

好的，現在暫時擱置，但是，對於你們去年的收入同比影響，你們有什麼大致的了解嗎？

It was very small last year, so.

去年它非常小，所以。

I don't know, Jason, do you have any details on the revenue definitely not. Yeah, there.

我不知道，傑森，你有沒有關於收入的詳細資料？肯定沒有。是的，在那裡。

Would say in the, twinkle in my eye is that, with the changes in the administration and people paying back their student loans at that business someday.

我想說的是，隨著政府的變革，人們有一天會在那家企業償還學生貸款。

Returns, it's not like we're, like.

回報，這並不像我們。

Not like, we can't have a student loan form and turn on the lenders, it's just that we're not actively marketing it.

並不是說，我們不能提供學生貸款表格並向貸款人提出要求，只是我們沒有積極地推銷它。

Okay, makes sense.

好的，有道理。

Thanks guys.

謝謝大家。

Thank you. I'm showing no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn it back to for closing remarks.

謝謝。我目前沒有其他問題。我想回到正題，做最後的總結。

Thank you. We are definitely pleased that all three of our segments returned to annual growth in the 1st quarter. For the past 5 years, unexpected economic impacts and the pandemic and inflation have been significant with the company.

謝謝。我們非常高興看到我們的三個部門在第一季都恢復了年度成長。過去5年，意外的經濟影響以及疫情和通貨膨脹為公司帶來了巨大的損失。

And yet, thanks, we've been able to suppress them thanks to our diversified business model. We remain optimistic for the remainder of 2025 and look forward to updating you on our second quarter call.

然而，感謝我們，憑藉多元化的商業模式，我們能夠抑制這些因素。我們對 2025 年剩餘時間保持樂觀，並期待在第二季電話會議上向您通報最新情況。

Thank you for joining us today.

感謝您今天加入我們。

This concludes today's conference call.

今天的電話會議到此結束。

Thank you for participating and you may now disconnect.

感謝您的參與，您現在可以斷開連接。