Teekay Corp Ltd (TK) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Welcome to the Teekay Tankers Limited fourth-quarter 2023 earnings results conference call. (Operator Instructions). As a reminder, this call is being recorded.

歡迎參加 Teekay Tankers Limited 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。（操作員說明）。提醒一下，此通話正在錄音。

Now, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the call over to the company. Please go ahead.

現在，作為開場白和介紹，我想將電話轉給公司。請繼續。

Before we begin, I would like to direct all participants to our website at www.teekay.com, where you'll find a copy of the fourth quarter and annual 2023 earnings presentation. Kevin and Stewart will review this presentation during today's conference call.

在我們開始之前，我想引導所有參與者訪問我們的網站 www.teekay.com，您可以在其中找到第四季度和 2023 年年度收益演示文稿的副本。凱文和史都華將在今天的電話會議上回顧這份簡報。

Please allow me to remind you that our discussion today contains forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from results projected by those forward-looking statements. Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to materially differ from those in the forward-looking statements is contained in the fourth quarter and annual 2023 earnings release and earnings presentation available on our website.

請容許我提醒您，我們今天的討論包含前瞻性陳述。實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述預測的結果有重大差異。有關可能導致實際結果與前瞻性陳述中的結果存在重大差異的因素的更多信息，請參閱我們網站上提供的第四季度和 2023 年年度收益發布和收益演示。

I will now turn the call over to Kevin Mackay, Teekay Tankers' President and CEO, to begin.

現在我將把電話轉給 Teekay Tankers 總裁兼執行長 Kevin Mackay。

Thank you, Ed. Hello, everyone, and thank you very much for joining us today for Teekay Tankers' fourth quarter and annual 2023 earnings conference call. Joining me on the call is Stewart Andrade, Teekay Tankers' CFO.

謝謝你，艾德。大家好，非常感謝您今天參加 Teekay Tankers 第四季和 2023 年年度財報電話會議。與我一起參加電話會議的是 Teekay Tankers 財務長 Stewart Andrade。

Moving to our recent highlights on slide 3 of the presentation, Teekay Tankers reported adjusted net income of $99.5 million or $2.91 per share, an increase from last quarter's levels of $76.6 million or $2.24 per share respectively. The company's 2023 adjusted net income of $500.5 million or $14.65 per share was more than double our strong 2022 earnings and established a new record for Teekay Tankers highest ever annual net income.

轉向簡報幻燈片 3 中我們最近的重點內容，Teekay Tankers 報告調整後淨利潤為 9950 萬美元或每股 2.91 美元，分別高於上季度 7660 萬美元或每股 2.24 美元的水平。該公司 2023 年調整後淨利潤為 5.005 億美元，即每股 14.65 美元，是我們 2022 年強勁盈利的兩倍多，並為 Teekay Tankers 創下了有史以來最高年度淨利潤的新紀錄。

Amid historically strong spot rates, the significant value of our high operating leverage is clear. As a reminder, for every $5,000 increase in tanker rates above our free cash flow breakeven of $16,000 per day, we expect to generate approximately $2.50 of annual free cash flow per share. We will provide further information of this later in the presentation.

在即期匯率歷史上強勁的情況下，我們高營運槓桿的重要價值是顯而易見的。提醒一下，油輪運價每增加 5,000 美元，超過每天 16,000 美元的自由現金流盈虧平衡點，我們預計每股每年將產生約 2.50 美元的自由現金流。我們將在稍後的演示中提供更多相關資訊。

In January, we gave notice to repurchase the remaining eight vessels on sale leaseback arrangements for $137 million. Once complete, this repurchase will bring the total number of vessels repurchased since March 2023 to 27 vessels for a total of $501 million reducing our total debt outstanding to zero and decreasing our cash breakeven rates.

一月份，我們發出通知，以 1.37 億美元的價格回購剩餘的 8 艘售後回租船舶。一旦完成，此次回購將使自 2023 年 3 月以來回購的船舶總數達到 27 艘，總價值為 5.01 億美元，將我們的未償債務總額降至零，並降低我們的現金盈虧平衡率。

In line with our fixed quarterly dividend policy, we have declared a cash dividend of $0.25 per share for the fourth quarter of 2023. In the market, 2023 turned out to be the best year for midsize tanker spot rates in TNK's history due to a combination of strong oil demand growth, longer voyage distances, and low fleet growth. Rates have remained firm at the start of 2024 with seasonal and geopolitical factors adding to an already tight tanker market. Looking further ahead, we believe that strong tanker supply and demand fundamentals will continue to support tanker fleet utilization and rates over the next two to three years, albeit with periods of pronounced spot rate volatility.

根據我們的固定季度股利政策，我們宣布 2023 年第四季現金股利為每股 0.25 美元。在市場上，由於強勁的石油需求成長、更長的航程距離和較低的船隊成長，2023年被證明是TNK史上中型油輪即期運價最好的一年。2024 年初，運價維持堅挺，季節性和地緣政治因素加劇了本已緊張的油輪市場。展望未來，我們認為，儘管即期運價波動明顯，但強勁的油輪供需基本面將在未來兩到三年內繼續支持油輪船隊利用率和運價。

Finally, we sold two 2004-built Aframaxes during the fourth quarter for total proceeds of $46.5 million recording a gain on sale of $10.4 million in December and an expected gain of approximately $11.5 million in Q1 of this year. Both of these vessels have now been delivered to their new owners.

最後，我們在第四季出售了兩艘2004 年建造的阿芙拉型油輪，總收益為4,650 萬美元，12 月份的銷售收益為1,040 萬美元，預計今年第一季的收益約為1,150 萬美元。這兩艘船現已交付給新主人。

Turning to slide 4, we look at dynamics in the spot tanker market. As mentioned on the highlight slide, midsize spot tanker rates during 2023 were the highest in Teekay Tankers history with rates averaging around $48,500 per day. Global oil demand grew by approximately 1.9 million barrels per day in 2023 per the IEA, as the world continued to rebound from the COVID-19 pandemic with particularly robust growth from China following the removal of travel restrictions at the start of the year as well as from India.

轉向幻燈片 4，我們研究現貨油輪市場的動態。正如重點幻燈片中所提到的，2023 年中型現貨油輪費率是 Teekay Tankers 歷史上最高的，平均費率約為每天 48,500 美元。根據 IEA 的數據，隨著世界繼續從 COVID-19 大流行中反彈，特別是在年初取消旅行限制後中國的增長尤其強勁，全球石油需求將在 2023 年增長約 190 萬桶/日。來自印度。

As a result, global oil demand moved above pre-pandemic levels for the first time to a record high of around 101 million barrels per day and has remained strong in the early part of 2024. Global oil supply also saw robust growth in 2023 despite OPEC+ supply cuts due to high output from non-OPEC countries. Oil supply growth was particularly strong in the Americas with US crude oil exports reaching a record high of over 4 million barrels per day.

因此，全球石油需求首次超過疫情前水平，達到約 1.01 億桶/日的歷史新高，並在 2024 年初保持強勁。儘管歐佩克+因非歐佩克國家產量高而減產，但2023年全球石油供應仍強勁成長。美洲的石油供應成長尤其強勁，美國原油出口量達到每天超過 400 萬桶的歷史新高。

Tanker demand saw a further boost from longer voyage distances during the year, which was the first full year following the EU's ban on Russian crude oil imports and the G7's price cap which came into effect in late 2022. As a result, over 90% of Russian crude oil exports moved long haul to India and China during the year. While Teekay Tankers does not participate in this trade, there has nonetheless been a significant overall boost to midsize tanker demand.

今年是歐盟禁止俄羅斯原油進口以及七國集團價格上限於 2022 年底生效後的第一個全年，更長的航程距離進一步提振了油輪需求。因此，今年俄羅斯 90% 以上的原油出口都透過長途運輸運往印度和中國。儘管 Teekay Tankers 不參與此貿易，但中型油輪需求整體上仍顯著成長。

Finally, despite an almost total absence of tanker recycling, the global tanker fleet saw less than 2% growth in 2023 due to a very small order book. This was far outweighed by tanker ton-mile demand growth of well over 7% leading to an increase in fleet utilization and strong rates.

最後，儘管幾乎完全沒有油輪回收，但由於訂單量非常小，全球油輪船隊在 2023 年的成長不到 2%。遠超過 7% 的油輪噸英里需求成長遠遠抵消了這一增長，導致船隊利用率提高和強勁的利率。

Spot tanker rates remained firm at the start of 2024 due to a combination of strong underlying fundamentals, seasonal factors such as weather delays, and various regional disruptions. I'll give more detail on these factors later in the presentation.

由於強勁的基本面、天氣延誤等季節性因素以及各種區域幹擾因素，現貨油輪運價在 2024 年初保持堅挺。我將在稍後的演示中詳細介紹這些因素。

Turning to slide 5, we provide an update on our Suezmax and Aframax size spot rates in the first quarter to date. Based on approximately 68% and 67% of revenue days booked, Teekay Tankers' first quarter to date Suezmax and Aframax size vessel bookings have averaged approximately $50,100 per day $50,900 per day respectively. Importantly, I once again highlight the value being created by TNK's eight-vessel chartered in-fleet with seven ships trading in the strong spot market. With an average in-charter rate level of $25,400 per day, the chartered in-fleet has a current mark-to-market value of approximately $60 million, which is in addition to our owned fleet.

轉向投影片 5，我們提供了迄今為止第一季蘇伊士型和阿芙拉型型即期運價的最新資訊。根據約 68% 和 67% 的預訂收入天數，Teekay Tankers 第一季迄今的蘇伊士型和阿芙拉型船舶預訂量平均分別約為每天 50,100 美元和 50,900 美元。重要的是，我再次強調 TNK 的八艘船隊包租船和七艘船在強勁的現貨市場上交易所創造的價值。包租機隊的平均包機費用為每天 25,400 美元，目前以市值計算的價值約為 6,000 萬美元，這還不包括我們自有機隊的價值。

Turning to slide 6, we look at tanker supply and demand fundamentals, which we believe will continue to support high tanker fleet utilization for at least the next two years to three years. Global oil demand is projected to grow by around 1.4 million barrels per day in 2024 as per the EIA, with further growth of 1.3 million barrels per day in 2025. This is in line with pre-pandemic levels of growth and indicates that demand growth for oil remains robust with consumption projected to reach 103.7 million barrels per day by the end of 2025, 3 million barrels per day higher than the level seen prior to the COVID-19 pandemic.

轉向幻燈片 6，我們專注於油輪供需基本面，我們相信這將至少在未來兩年至三年內繼續支持油輪船隊的高利用率。根據 EIA，預計 2024 年全球石油需求將成長約 140 萬桶/日，2025 年將進一步成長 130 萬桶/日。這與疫情前的成長水準一致，並顯示石油需求成長依然強勁，預計到 2025 年底消費量將達到 1.037 億桶/日，比新冠疫情之前的水準高出 300 萬桶/日-19大流行。

Meanwhile, the outlook for tanker fleet supply remains extremely positive with minimal tanker fleet growth expected over the next two years to three years. This is especially true for 2024 with just 9 million deadweight tonnes scheduled to be delivered, the lowest annual total since 1997. The tanker order book remains small by historical standards at around 7% of the existing fleet size, while forward order book cover at global shipyards stands at 3.5 years, meaning there is little spare shipyard capacity until 2027.

同時，油輪船隊供應的前景仍然非常樂觀，預計未來兩年至三年內油輪船隊的成長將微乎其微。2024 年尤其如此，預計交付量僅為 900 萬載重噸，這是自 1997 年以來的最低年度總量。以歷史標準衡量，油輪訂單量仍然很小，約為現有船隊規模的 7%，而全球造船廠的遠期訂單期限為 3.5 年，這意味著到 2027 年，船廠的閒置產能很少。

The combination of a low order book, an aging tanker fleet, and a lack of shipyard capacity until 2027 should lead to exceptionally low levels of tanker fleet growth over the next three years, including virtually no fleet growth in 2024. As shown by the chart on the bottom of the slide, tanker ton-mile demand growth is expected to outstrip fleet supply growth this year and in 2025, continuing the trend that started in 2022 and extended into 2023. This compounding impact of demand growth exceeding supply growth should continue to support high levels of tanker fleet utilization and firm tanker rates.

訂單量低、油輪船隊老化以及 2027 年之前造船廠產能不足，這些因素綜合在一起，應會導致未來三年油輪船隊增長水平極低，包括 2024 年幾乎沒有船隊增長。如投影片底部的圖表所示，預計今年和 2025 年油輪噸英里需求成長將超過船隊供應成長，延續 2022 年開始並延續到 2023 年的趨勢。需求成長超過供應成長的複合影響應繼續支持油輪船隊的高利用率和穩定的油輪運價。

Turning to slide 7, we look at various events that are impacting tanker trades this year, which are creating additional rate volatility in an already tight market. Starting on the right side of the slide, Russian crude oil exports flowing long haul to India and China via the shadow fleet should continue to support midsize tanker demand in 2024. In addition, there have been increased attacks on Russian refineries and storage facilities in recent weeks, which may cut Russia's ability to produce refined oil products and lead to more crude oil being available for export.

轉向幻燈片 7，我們研究了今年影響油輪交易的各種事件，這些事件在本已緊張的市場中造成了額外的費率波動。從下滑的右側開始，透過影子船隊長途運輸到印度和中國的俄羅斯原油出口應會繼續支持 2024 年中型油輪的需求。此外，最近幾週針對俄羅斯煉油廠和儲存設施的襲擊增加，這可能會削弱俄羅斯生產成品油的能力，並導致更多原油可供出口。

In terms of oil supply, the majority of production growth in 2024 is expected to come from non-OPEC countries in the Atlantic Basin, led by the United States, Brazil, and Guyana. Given that oil demand growth is expected to be concentrated in Asia, there could be an increase in Atlantic to Pacific crude oil movements, which would be beneficial for tanker ton-mile demand. Disruptions to vessel transits in both the Panama and Suez Canals are also impacting the tanker market this year.

在石油供應方面，預計2024年產量成長的大部分將來自大西洋盆地的非歐佩克國家，以美國、巴西和圭亞那為首。鑑於石油需求成長預計將集中在亞洲，大西洋至太平洋的原油運輸可能會增加，這將有利於油輪噸英里需求。巴拿馬和蘇伊士運河的船舶過境中斷也影響了今年的油輪市場。

While the Panama Canal is not a major transit corridor for crude oil tankers, the inability to transit the canal limits tankers owners' ability to reposition ships between the Pacific and Atlantic Basins and therefore creates inefficiencies, which from a tanker market perspective is generally positive as it leads to increased tanker utilization.

雖然巴拿馬運河不是原油油輪的主要過境走廊，但無法通過運河限制了油輪船東在太平洋和大西洋盆地之間重新定位船舶的能力，因此造成效率低下，從油輪市場的角度來看，這通常是積極的，因為它導致油輪利用率提高。

With regards to the Red Sea, the increase in attacks on merchant shipping since last December is having an impact on tanker trade patterns. This is a dynamic situation, but in recent weeks, there have been an increasing number of ship owners and operators avoiding the region and seeking alternative routes that involve longer voyages.

就紅海而言，自去年 12 月以來商船遭受襲擊的增加正在對油輪貿易模式產生影響。這是一個動態的情況，但最近幾週，越來越多的船東和營運商避開該地區並尋求涉及更長航程的替代航線。

For many vessels, this means sailing around the Cape of Good Hope, adding a significant number of voyage days and creating additional tanker ton-mile demand. For example, Suezmax voyage from Basra, Iraq to the Mediterranean is about 4,000 nautical miles or 13 days via the Suez Canal compared to around 12,000 nautical miles or 40 days via the Cape of Good Hope. While it's impossible to predict how this situation will evolve, the rerouting of cargoes is likely to continue creating additional tanker demand in the near term.

對於許多船舶來說，這意味著繞著好望角航行，增加大量航行天數並產生額外的油輪噸英里需求。例如，從伊拉克巴士拉到地中海的蘇伊士型油輪通過蘇伊士運河至地中海的航程約為 4,000 海里或 13 天，而通過好望角則約為 12,000 海里或 40 天。雖然無法預測這種情況將如何發展，但貨物的改道可能會在短期內繼續創造額外的油輪需求。

Finally, the expansion of the Trans Mountain Pipeline to Vancouver, Canada, later this year will lead to a new source of Aframax-specific demand. This pipeline with an increasing capacity of 590,000 barrels per day is intended to provide a new seaborne outlet for Canadian crude oil exports.

最後，今年稍後跨山管道擴建至加拿大溫哥華將為阿芙拉型油輪的特定需求帶來新的來源。這條管道的輸送能力將增加到每天 59 萬桶，旨在為加拿大原油出口提供新的海運出口。

Given that the terminal is restricted to Aframax-sized vessels, it is anticipated that the expansion could result in up to 30 to 35 Aframax loadings per month. This is an exciting development and has the potential to create significant Aframax demand once the pipeline is up and running with the operator currently expecting the start of oil flows through the pipeline during the second quarter of 2024.

鑑於該碼頭僅限於阿芙拉型油輪大小的船舶，預計擴建後每月可裝載多達 30 至 35 艘阿芙拉型油輪。這是一個令人興奮的發展，一旦管道建成並運行，有可能創造大量的阿芙拉型油輪需求，營運商目前預計石油將於 2024 年第二季開始通過該管道。

So in sum, the numerous changes to trade patterns around the world, which I've just described are leading to increased complexity and supply chain inefficiency creating additional tanker demand as a result and spot rate volatility in what is already a fundamentally very tight market.

總而言之，我剛才描述的世界各地貿易模式的眾多變化導致複雜性增加和供應鏈效率低下，從而產生額外的油輪需求，並在本已非常緊張的市場中產生即期匯率波動。

I'll now turn the call over to Stewart to cover the next two slides.

我現在將把電話轉給史都華來介紹接下來的兩張投影片。

Thanks, Kevin. Turning to slide 8, we outlined some of Teekay Tankers' key accomplishments in 2023. As noted earlier in the presentation, financially, 2023 was a record-breaking year with the company generating just over $0.5 billion of adjusted net income and over $575 million of free cash flow. These strong results allowed us to transform our balance sheet, repurchasing 19 vessels from sale-leaseback arrangements and refinancing them with a new $350 million revolving credit facility which provides us with greater financial flexibility.

謝謝，凱文。轉向幻燈片 8，我們概述了 Teekay Tankers 在 2023 年取得的一些主要成就。正如前面介紹的那樣，從財務角度來看，2023 年是創紀錄的一年，該公司調整後淨利潤略高於 5 億美元，自由現金流超過 5.75 億美元。這些強勁的業績使我們能夠改變我們的資產負債表，透過售後回租安排回購19 艘船舶，並透過新的3.5 億美元循環信貸安排為其再融資，這為我們提供了更大的財務靈活性。

In addition, TNK ended the year with a net cash position of $226 million. As a reminder, after the repurchase of our final eight vessels in sale leaseback arrangements, we expect to be completely debt free by the end of the first quarter. 2023 was also a year of strong operational performance with 99.8% fleet availability and zero lost time injuries. A metric that we don't often touch on during these quarterly investor calls, but which is extremely important for the safety of our crews and the reliability of our operations.

此外，TNK 年底的淨現金部位為 2.26 億美元。提醒一下，在透過售後回租安排回購最後八艘船舶後，我們預計到第一季末將完全擺脫債務。 2023 年也是營運績效強勁的一年，車隊可用性達到 99.8%，誤工工傷為零。我們在季度投資者電話會議中不常提及此指標，但它對於員工的安全和營運的可靠性極為重要。

Commercially, we continue to manage our lucrative time charter portfolio by extending in charters at rates well below the current spot market, enabling us to profit significantly from the spread. With all of these accomplishments in 2023, the successful execution of our strategy has created significant value for our shareholders through a combination of returning capital via dividends and the appreciation of our share price. Since the beginning of 2023, we have generated total shareholder return of 109%, which further builds on the significant shareholder value Teekay Tankers created in 2022.

在商業上，我們繼續以遠低於當前現貨市場的價格延長租船來管理我們利潤豐厚的期租組合，使我們能夠從價差中大幅獲利。憑藉 2023 年取得的所有這些成就，我們策略的成功執行透過股息返還資本和股價升值​​相結合，為我們的股東創造了巨大的價值。自 2023 年初以來，我們的股東總回報率為 109%，這進一步鞏固了 Teekay Tankers 在 2022 年創造的重要股東價值。

Turning to slide 9, we highlight the potential for TNK to continue creating significant shareholder value in 2024, a year that we expect to be another strong tanker market. With 98% of our 51-vessel fleet operating in a strong spot tanker market that is supported by robust tanker supply and demand fundamentals and driven further by the various factors we have talked about today, we feel confident about our ability to continue creating shareholder value.

轉向幻燈片 9，我們強調 TNK 在 2024 年繼續創造顯著股東價值的潛力，我們預計這一年將成為另一個強勁的油輪市場。我們的51 艘船隊中有98% 在強勁的現貨油輪市場中運營，該市場受到強勁的油輪供需基本面的支持，並受到我們今天討論的各種因素的進一步推動，我們對繼續創造股東價值的能力充滿信心。

As a demonstration, if we use the trailing 12-month average of TNK's realized spot rates and project that forward, our annualized free cash flow would be approximately $16.30 per share or free cash flow yield of approximately 28%. With this kind of operating leverage, strong prospects for midsize tankers moving forward, and a growing cash position, we're making progress in building Teekay Tankers' strategic optionality for future fleet reinvestment.

作為演示，如果我們使用 TNK 已實現即期匯率的過去 12 個月平均值並進行預測，我們的年化自由現金流將約為每股 16.30 美元，或自由現金流收益率約為 28%。憑藉這種營運槓桿、中型油輪的強勁前景以及不斷增長的現金狀況，我們在為 Teekay Tankers 未來船隊再投資建立策略選擇方面取得了進展。

I will now turn the call back to Kevin to conclude.

現在我將把電話轉回凱文來結束。

Thanks, Stewart. In summary, as we experienced in 2023, the fundamentals of our business continue to be highly supportive for what could be a protracted period of midsized tanker market strength, most notably, a very positive tanker supply outlook grounded by a negligible multi-year newbuild delivery schedule. Oil demand continues to grow past the post-pandemic rebound. Beyond the fundamentals, a range of factors are introducing complexity and inefficiency into the market, tightening the supply and demand balance still further.

謝謝，斯圖爾特。總而言之，正如我們在 2023 年所經歷的那樣，我們業務的基本面繼續對中型油輪市場可能長期保持強勢提供高度支持，最值得注意的是，由於多年新造船交付量微不足道，油輪供應前景非常樂觀日程。疫情後的反彈過後，石油需求持續成長。除了基本面之外，一系列因素正在為市場帶來複雜性和低效率，進一步收緊供需平衡。

Overall, we believe that our midsize tanker focus and spot market strategy places Teekay Tankers in an ideal position to continue capturing upside and realizing shareholder value moving forward.

總體而言，我們相信，我們對中型油輪的關注和現貨市場策略使 Teekay Tankers 處於理想的位置，可以繼續捕捉上漲空間並實現股東價值。

With that, operator, we're now available to take questions.

接線員，現在我們可以回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Jon Chappell, Evercore.

（操作員說明）Jon Chappell，Evercore。

First question is simply, what's next? You pointed out a great outlook for the industry. Your operating leverage is immense. You'll be debt free in a matter of weeks. What comes next that the deleveraging is done?

第一個問題很簡單，下一步是什麼？您指出了該行業的美好前景。您的營運槓桿是巨大的。幾週之內你就會還清債務。去槓桿完成後接下來會發生什麼事？

Yeah, Jon, it's a good question. And I think it's really more of the same. I think we've been clear on over the last few quarters in explaining what our focus is. Our strategy is to continue to both build a strong cash position to reinvest in our fleet and to reinvest in our business and, B, to reward shareholders through some of the capital allocation tools that we laid out in our capital allocation plan. So I think just because we've crossed the -- or we will cross the milestone of being debt free, the strategy will remain the same.

是的，喬恩，這是個好問題。我認為這實際上更相似。我認為我們在過去幾個季度已經明確解釋了我們的重點是什麼。我們的策略是繼續建立強大的現金狀況，以對我們的機隊進行再投資，並對我們的業務進行再投資，並且透過我們在資本配置計劃中列出的一些資本配置工具來獎勵股東。所以我認為，僅僅因為我們已經跨越了——或者我們將跨越無債務的里程碑，戰略將保持不變。

It seems like since the special dividend, I think nine months ago now, there has been no real acceleration in the capital allocation. I don't think there's been much in the terms of buyback despite trading at a pretty big discount to most estimates of NAV, do you think that that's something that accelerates now in 2024 as you wait for the opportunity to reinvest in the fleet?

自從特別股息以來，我認為九個月前，資本配置並沒有真正加速。儘管與大多數淨值估計相比，我認為回購方面並沒有太多折扣，但您認為在 2024 年等待再投資機隊的機會時，這種情況會加速嗎？

It's definitely something that, as I said, is in our tool bag. Nine months ago, when we rolled out our capital allocation plan, it was based on a holistic view of our needs as well as what shareholders are looking for. And I wouldn't read into the fact that we may not have used one or two of the tools so far. We put them in there for a specific reason, and the discussion that we have at management level and with the Board is always a holistic one around where we're going, where can we add the best value, and what should we do with the money we're generating? So I think I wouldn't read into the fact that we haven't used anything so far as something that indicates that we won't be using them in the future.

正如我所說，這絕對是我們工具包裡的東西。九個月前，當我們推出資本配置計畫時，它是基於對我們的需求以及股東的需求的整體看法。我不會解釋這樣一個事實：到目前為止我們可能還沒有使用過其中一兩個工具。我們將它們放在那裡是有特定原因的，我們在管理層以及與董事會的討論始終是圍繞我們的發展方向、我們可以在哪裡增加最佳價值以及我們應該如何處理這些問題的整體討論。我們正在創造金錢？因此，我認為我不會解讀我們尚未使用任何東西這一事實，因為這表明我們將來不會使用它們。

Okay. Just one more quick one. I mean, selling older assets makes a ton of sense especially at these levels, and you're continuing to do that. Should we maybe think about renewing the fleet through sale and then just creating this massive buffer for when the cycle inevitably turns and then being opportunistic at some point in the medium to distant future?

好的。只要再快一點就好了。我的意思是，出售舊資產非常有意義，尤其是在目前的水平上，而且您將繼續這樣做。我們是否應該考慮透過出售來更新機隊，然後在周期不可避免地發生轉變時創造巨大的緩衝，然後在中等到遙遠的未來的某個時刻採取機會主義？

I think there's a lot of ways you can look at it. And we're not agnostic. Sorry, we are agnostic to where we can bring the most value to shareholders over time. So in terms of what we're looking at, whether it's small acquisitions, large acquisitions, fleet dispositions, ex the individual ship assets as we did last quarter, those are all in the discussion that we have at both management and Board level.

我認為您可以透過多種方式來看待它。我們並不是不可知論者。抱歉，我們不知道隨著時間的推移，我們可以在哪裡為股東帶來最大的價值。因此，就我們所關注的內容而言，無論是小型收購、大型收購、船隊處置，還是我們上季度所做的單艘船舶資產，這些都在我們管理層和董事會層面的討論中。

Okay.

好的。

Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

奧馬爾諾克塔，傑弗里斯。

I do have a couple and definitely continuing the theme of John's question. Stewart, you mentioned in your opening comments about you're getting to the point now you have optionality for future fleet reinvestment, and you've been selling the older vessels, makes sense. You haven't been replacing them with modern ones.

我確實有幾個並且肯定延續了約翰問題的主題。斯圖爾特，您在開場白中提到，現在您可以選擇對未來的船隊進行再投資，並且您一直在出售舊船，這是有道理的。你還沒有用現代的取代它們。

So just wanted to check how you're thinking about the planned -- perhaps planned retooling of Teekay Tankers. Is it given the fact that asset values have started to really run away, are you thinking that maybe you close the book on reinvestment in this upcycle? And is the plan basically you build a war chest and be prepared for investments when the market eventually rolls over?

所以我只是想了解一下您對 Teekay Tankers 計劃中的——也許是計劃中的裝備重組的看法。考慮到資產價值已經開始真正失控，您是否認為在這個上升週期中您可能會關閉有關再投資的書？該計劃基本上是建立一個戰爭基金，並為市場最終好轉時的投資做好準備嗎？

That's one question I have, and then maybe the second part of that is perhaps, is tankers where you want to be long term, or are you thinking of diverting down the line?

這是我的一個問題，然後也許第二部分是，您是否想長期使用油輪，或者您正在考慮改道？

So maybe taking the first one first. So we've been selling some vessels, a couple of vessels, our 2004 built, which were about to turn 20 years old and were drydock due. So that's just a normal part of moving those vessels on. In terms of looking at reinvestment, I guess there's a couple of ways to look at it. Yes, asset prices are quite high. We also have a view that the tanker market is going to be very robust over the next few years.

所以也許先拿第一個。因此，我們一直在出售一些船隻，其中有幾艘是我們在 2004 年建造的，這些船隻的船齡即將滿 20 年，即將進塢。所以這只是讓這些船隻繼續前進的正常部分。在看待再投資方面，我想有幾種看待它的方法。是的，資產價格相當高。我們也認為，未來幾年油輪市場將非常強勁。

So part of the consideration is always what are you paying for those assets, how much cash flow can you generate from them over the next few years and you're potentially paying them down to a level that you'd be comfortable at. So just like time charters in and out are always looked at, we're also looking at SMP. So I don't think that we've closed the book on the opportunity to buy vessels. So it's not that we -- we haven't closed the book, we said, well, we'll just come back when asset values come down. So it's something that we're always evaluating.

因此，部分考慮因素始終是您為這些資產支付了什麼費用，在未來幾年內您可以從這些資產中產生多少現金流，以及您可能會將其支付到您感到滿意的水平。因此，就像始終關注進出期租約一樣，我們也在關注 SMP。所以我不認為我們已經結束了關於購買船隻機會的書。所以這並不是說我們——我們還沒有結束這本書，我們說，好吧，當資產價值下降時我們就會回來。所以這是我們一直在評估的事情。

With our growing financial strength, we look at all sorts of opportunities including the potential to acquire fleets, M&A, everything. So we are -- as Kevin likes to say, we are agnostic over the approach that we would take, and we look at all those things as opportunities to reinvest in the fleet. So we are committed to reinvestment, and we will, if we can do it sooner and there's opportunities that we think will create value for shareholders, then we'll go ahead and do that. If we have to be more patient and wait, then we'll do that, so our eyes are always open, and we're looking for opportunities.

隨著我們不斷成長的財務實力，我們專注於各種機會，包括收購船隊、併購等一切的可能性。因此，正如凱文喜歡說的那樣，我們對將採取的方法持不可知論，我們將所有這些事情視為對機隊進行再投資的機會。因此，我們致力於再投資，如果我們能更快地做到這一點，並且我們認為有機會為股東創造價值，那麼我們就會繼續這樣做。如果我們必須更有耐心等待，那麼我們就會這麼做，所以我們總是睜大眼睛，尋找機會。

In terms of the second part of your question about other segments, we're a tanker company. We've been in tankers since we were formed in 2007, and that is where our focus is. If we end up in a situation where we have a lot of capital to deploy and tankers, and the window isn't open for tankers, but there's other opportunities in other segments, then of course, as a company, we would consider wherever we can create shareholder value. But we are a tanker company and that's what we've been focused on. And at the moment, there's no intention to pivot away from that.

關於你關於其他領域的問題的第二部分，我們是一家油輪公司。自 2007 年成立以來，我們一直致力於油輪領域，這也是我們的重點所在。如果我們最終遇到這樣的情況，我們有大量的資本和油輪可供部署，並且油輪的窗口沒有打開，但其他領域還有其他機會，那麼當然，作為一家公司，我們會考慮無論我們在哪裡能夠創造股東價值。但我們是一家油輪公司，這就是我們一直在關注的重點。目前，我們無意改變這一點。

Okay. I just was wondering if perhaps maybe the reason why we haven't seen the reinvestment is perhaps thinking a bit more strategically outside of tankers. And I guess, at what point do you think -- as you highlighted at the end of the quarter you'll pay off the capital leases, the cash is going to start to really accrue fairly rapidly in the next few quarters assuming obviously the market remains afloat. And as you highlighted, you think it can last couple two years or three years. Is there a point at which point you start to think, well, the cash is building too much, we need to now move this? Have you thought about that? And is there like a cash balance trigger that really starts to make you think, okay, we have to put this capital to work?

好的。我只是想知道我們沒有看到再投資的原因是否可能是在油輪之外進行了更具策略性的思考。我想，你認為在什麼時候——正如你在季度末強調的那樣，你將還清資本租賃，現金將在接下來的幾個季度開始真正迅速積累，顯然假設市場仍然漂浮。正如您所強調的，您認為它可以持續兩年或三年。您是否會在某個時刻開始思考，現金累積太多，我們現在需要轉移這一點？你有想過嗎？是否存在現金餘額觸發器，真正開始讓您思考，好吧，我們必須將這筆資金投入使用？

I don't think there is any trigger, first of all, let's say that. I don't think there is a number or a trigger. And when we put in our capital allocation approach which was a sustainable quarterly dividend which, given our transformed balance sheet, we thought we would be able to continue to pay for the long-term and then the flexibility to pay special dividends when deemed appropriate. We did that for that exact reason, so we could be flexible and we could make large returns of capital or small returns of capital depending on the position of the company and how we saw our prospects going forward.

首先，我認為沒有任何觸發因素。我認為沒有數字或觸發因素。當我們採用可持續的季度股息的資本配置方法時，鑑於我們的資產負債表發生了變化，我們認為我們將能夠繼續長期支付，然後在認為適當時靈活地支付特別股息。我們這樣做正是出於這個原因，因此我們可以保持靈活性，我們可以根據公司的地位以及我們對未來前景的看法來獲得大額資本回報或小額資本回報。

So the situation that we're in now is, as you said, we're generating a lot of cash flow which at the end of the day is equity value for shareholders. And as we've seen in the last year, quite a bit of that equity value has come through in terms of our share price. And we had over 100% total shareholder return during 2023. During 2022, it was even larger than that. So we feel like that equity value is being realized in terms of our share price.

因此，正如您所說，我們現在所處的情況是，我們正在產生大量現金流，這些現金流最終就是股東的股權價值。正如我們去年所看到的，相當一部分股權價值已經透過我們的股價體現出來。2023 年，我們的股東總回報率超過 100%。2022 年，這一數字甚至更大。因此，我們認為股權價值正在透過我們的股價實現。

But then the question becomes, well, what do we do with that cash flow or that equity value, and how do we best deploy that to create value for our shareholders? And that's the conversations that we have. Should we return a certain amount to shareholders via direct capital return? Or do we think we'll create more value by having that financial strength that we can reinvest at the right time to create even more value? So that's really the basis of the conversations that we have.

但問題變成了，我們如何處理現金流或股權價值，以及我們如何最好地利用它來為股東創造價值？這就是我們的對話。我們是否應該透過直接資本返還的方式向股東返還一定數額的資金？或者我們認為透過擁有可以在適當的時間進行再投資以創造更多價值的財務實力來創造更多價值？這確實是我們對話的基礎。

And as you rightfully note, if this market stays strong for the next two years, TNK will be in a much different position than we are today. And I would expect the conversations that we have around the capital allocation would be informed by that changing nature of our balance sheet. And again, we will use the same criteria which is, how do we create value for our shareholders, but the answers might be different as we move forward.

正如您正確指出的那樣，如果這個市場在未來兩年保持強勁，TNK 的處境將與我們今天的情況大不相同。我預期我們圍繞資本配置的對話將受到我們資產負債表不斷變化的性質的影響。同樣，我們將使用相同的標準，即我們如何為股東創造價值，但隨著我們的前進，答案可能會有所不同。

That is a great situation to be in, nonetheless. So yeah, I appreciate those comments. And If I could just ask one quick one just on the market. Kevin, you were sort of highlighting the Trans Mountain Pipeline. And just want to get a sense from you, you mentioned the 30, 35 Aframax loadings, is this a brand-new trade pattern that can start to evolve? Or is there already a market for Aframaxes in that region? And where do those cargos you think end up going?

儘管如此，這仍然是一個很好的情況。所以，是的，我很欣賞這些評論。如果我能快速問一下市場上的一個就好了。凱文，你有點強調了跨山管道。我想問您，您提到了30、35艘阿芙拉型油輪的裝載量，這是一種可以開始演變的全新貿易模式嗎？或者該地區已經有阿芙拉型油輪的市場了嗎？您認為這些貨物最終會流向哪裡？

Yeah. It's a good question. At the moment, you have approximately one Aframax lifting a week. So it really is a significant uplift in export capacity. There's various markets that that crude can move into. It can move down to the US West Coast. It can move down to Panama to be put on VLCCs or co-loaded to send further over to Asia. It may even be put through the Panama Canal.

是的。這是一個好問題。目前，您每週大約會起運一艘阿芙拉型油輪。因此，這確實是出口能力的顯著提升。原油可以進入多個市場。它可以移動到美國西海岸。它可以南下至巴拿馬，裝上 VLCC 或共同裝載，進一步運往亞洲。它甚至可能通過巴拿馬運河。

At this point in time, we don't know. All we know is that the operator is indicating that the pipeline will open and have oil flow at some point in second quarter of this year. But in terms of the destinations of those cargoes, we'll have to wait and see how the trading or the oil trading environment picks up on that oil and where they can probably make the best margin.

目前，我們還不知道。我們所知道的是，營運商表示該管道將在今年第二季的某個時間開通並有石油流動。但就這些貨物的目的地而言，我們將不得不等待，看看石油交易或石油交易環境如何改善，以及他們在哪裡可以獲得最佳利潤。

So the only sure thing is that you can only load an Aframax out of Vancouver. You can't take a Suezmax or a VLCC in there. So from a demand perspective, it's a really exciting area that we're really keen to keep an eye on. And it could bode well with our capacity that we have currently in the US Gulf and with our Suezmax fleet also trading around that area, it could move a really good dynamic for the midsize tanker space overall.

因此，唯一確定的是，您只能從溫哥華裝載阿芙拉型油輪。你不能在那裡攜帶蘇伊士型油輪或超大型油輪。因此，從需求的角度來看，這是一個非常令人興奮的領域，我們非常熱衷於關注。這對我們目前在美國海灣的運能來說是個好兆頭，而且我們的蘇伊士型油輪船隊也在該地區附近進行貿易，這可能會為整個中型油輪空間帶來真正的良好動力。

Okay. Very good.

好的。非常好。

Ken Hoexter, Bank of America.

肯‧霍克斯特，美國銀行。

It's amazing that this discussion so far in terms of finally getting rid of all that that debt, and you're going to be debt free in a few weeks. It's just such an exciting turn. I want to talk about the market though. We haven't talked much about the market.

令人驚訝的是，到目前為止的討論最終擺脫了所有債務，並且您將在幾週內擺脫債務。這真是一個令人興奮的轉折。不過我想談談市場。我們還沒有過多談論市場。

It seemed like rates right now are about $60,000 a day or kind of trended, I guess, even in the back half of last quarter for both Afra, Suez and you're kind of averaging $50,000. I think the stock move this morning is kind of showing a little bit of that disappointment in where rates are in the first quarter to date and then even where you averaged in the fourth quarter. Maybe run through, was that maybe some more moves of clean versus dirty? I don't know (technical difficulty) market through the quarter, if that makes sense.

現在的費率似乎約為每天 60,000 美元，或者是某種趨勢，我猜，即使在上個季度的後半段，阿夫拉、蘇伊士和你們的平均費率為 50,000 美元。我認為今天早上的股價走勢有點令人失望，第一季迄今的利率，甚至第四季的平均利率也是如此。也許跑遍了，這是否可能是更多乾淨與骯髒的動作？我不知道整個季度的（技術難度）市場狀況，這是否有意義。

Yeah, I can't speak to the TNK share price movement today. But in terms of the market, I think I would characterize it as being a slightly less robust fourth quarter than what we had the year prior but still a historical level. TNK's performance in the fourth quarter was hampered slightly by some of our positioning at the end of Q3 with our Suezmax fleet, where we bunched up some ships and ended up having to take rates that were significantly lower at the back end of the third quarter than what we've seen since then, and that impacted our results for the fourth quarter. As you can see from our first quarter-to-date numbers, averaging $50,000 across both segments, they're extremely healthy numbers. They're back up to close to 2022 and early 2023 levels.

是的，我今天不能談 TNK 的股價走勢。但就市場而言，我認為第四季的強勁程度略低於前一年，但仍處於歷史水平。TNK 在第四季度的業績受到了我們在第三季末蘇伊士型船隊的一些定位的影響，我們集中了一些船舶，最終不得不採取比第三季末明顯更低的費率。從那時起我們所看到的，這影響了我們第四季的業績。正如您從我們第一季至今的數據中看到的那樣，這兩個細分市場的平均收入為 50,000 美元，這是一個非常健康的數字。它們將回升至接近 2022 年和 2023 年初的水平。

And I think that is a function of the fact that the market is strong, demand is strong, and ton-mile is being expanded by all of those issues that I highlighted in the presentation. So I think our view is the market should stay strong. There's obviously going to be volatility. You mentioned $60,000 a day. The LR2s have been at that level, but they're slowly coming off.

我認為這是市場強勁、需求強勁以及我在演示中強調的所有這些問題正在擴大噸英里這一事實的結果。所以我認為我們的觀點是市場應該要保持強勁。顯然會出現波動。你提到每天 6 萬美元。LR2 一直處於這個水平，但它們正在慢慢下降。

The Aframaxes in the US Gulf have been $80,000 a day at points during the first quarter and have come off since then. Other areas, the Far East is still holding fairly strong. So I think we're going to see, while the fundamentals are strong, you're still going to see volatility. So capturing that and making sure that our fleet deployment is in the right areas at the right time to capture that volatility is going to be important to maintain the kind of returns that we had last year.

第一季度，美灣地區的阿芙拉型油輪的租金一度達到每天 8 萬美元，此後價格有所下降。其他地區，遠東地區仍保持相當強勢。因此，我認為我們會看到，雖然基本面強勁，但仍然會波動。因此，抓住這一點並確保我們的機隊在正確的時間部署在正確的地區以捕捉這種波動性對於維持我們去年的回報非常重要。

And I'm confident that looking at what we've been doing thus far in the first quarter, we should continue to perform well quarter over quarter. And I don't really focus on an individual quarter because, as I said, a lot depends on where the fleet ends up being positioned based on the voyages that we fix. But over a series of quarters, I'd expect us to be robust in terms of our performance.

我相信，看看我們第一季迄今為止所做的事情，我們應該會繼續每個季度都表現良好。我並不真正關注單一季度，因為正如我所說，很大程度上取決於我們確定的航次中船隊最終的定位。但在接下來的幾個季度中，我預計我們的業績將會強勁。

Yeah. I mean, it's a great run through, Kevin. And I'm not arguing the robustness. It certainly is robust. I mean, that's obviously what's generating the cash flow. I'm just arguing or trying to understand why such a consistent difference or underperformance relative to kind of Clarkson averages, which would be kind of the average of all the lanes. And I think I got it now from the end of third quarter that impacted fourth quarter.

是的。我的意思是，這是一次很棒的經歷，凱文。我並不是爭論其穩健性。它確實很堅固。我的意思是，這顯然是產生現金流的原因。我只是在爭論或試圖理解為什麼相對於克拉克森平均值（所有泳道的平均值）會有如此一致的差異或表現不佳。我想我從影響第四季的第三季末開始就得到了它。

But was there more of that as you entered the first quarter? Or are you seeing then the next level of bookings improve from where you were? Just trying to understand if there's going to be an acceleration or you mentioned a couple of pullbacks versus other regions that are really strong. So is that just a more a factor of where your vessels are?

但進入第一季後，還有更多這樣的事情發生嗎？或者您看到下一階段的預訂量比以前有所改善？只是想了解是否會出現加速，或者您提到與其他真正強勁的地區相比是否會出現一些回調。那麼這是否只是決定您的船隻所在位置的因素呢？

I think it's a factor of a broker's assessment of the market looks purely at a singular voyage. And when you're trading a fleet of 50 ships, some ships sit in demurrage, some ships are held up waiting to go through canals. A lot of operational factors come in that impacts your final returns. There's also the timing. It's not a straight average that you're getting that a broker calculates based on daily rates. It's fixing a certain amount of your fleet at a certain point in time in that quarter and that has an impact.

我認為這是經紀人對市場進行純粹評估的因素。當您交易一支由 50 艘船組成的船隊時，有些船處於滯期狀態，有些船則滯留等待通過運河。許多營運因素都會影響您的最終回報。還有時機。您得到的並不是經紀人根據每日匯率計算的直接平均值。它會在該季度的某個時間點修復一定數量的車隊，這會產生影響。

Sometimes, as I've said in the back end of third quarter, not a very good impact. Other times, the impact is really positive. So I wouldn't look at broker assessments and then judge every ship owner’s performance necessarily against that on an individual quarter.

有時，正如我在第三季末所說的那樣，不會產生很好的影響。其他時候，影響確實是正面的。因此，我不會查看經紀人的評估，然後根據每季的表現來判斷每個船東的表現。

Great. And then I guess two quick, Stewart, questions. One, can you talk about the new breakeven level as you get past this final debt paydown, maybe just how we should think about that? And then secondly, you mentioned it's not the right time to buy yet. You want to keep looking at the market. Do you go back to the special dividend policy, or do you enhance the buyback? Do you have like a favorite move in the interim if you're starting to build the cash that you were just talking previously about?

偉大的。然後我猜出兩個簡短的問題，史都華。第一，您能否談談當您通過最終債務償還後的新盈虧平衡水平，也許我們應該如何考慮這個問題？其次，你提到現在還不是購買的合適時機。你想繼續關注市場。是回歸特別股利政策，還是加強回購？如果您開始累積之前提到的現金，那麼在此期間您有最喜歡的舉動嗎？

In terms of the breakeven level, so once we repurchase these final vessels, expect the breakeven level to be between $15,500 and $16,000 a day, depending on a few factors, but that's about where it is. So above that level, we would generate free cash flow, positive free cash flow. And just to be clear, that's an all-in number includes CapEx, maintenance CapEx, and everything else. So that's a fully baked number.

就損益平衡水準而言，一旦我們回購這些最終船隻，預計損益平衡水準將在每天 15,500 美元至 16,000 美元之間，具體取決於幾個因素，但也僅此而已。因此，高於這個水平，我們將產生自由現金流，正的自由現金流。需要明確的是，這是一個包含資本支出、維護資本支出和其他所有內容的總數。所以這是一個完全成熟的數字。

In terms of capital allocation, when we announced the capital allocation policy three quarters ago, we did characterize the special dividends as something that we would use periodically to return more capital to shareholders. We certainly haven't changed that. So it's not really a matter of going back to it. I guess, it's in place there, and we're using it the way that we had intended to use it. And we'll continue to have discussions around when and how to use that special dividend.

在資本配置方面，我們在三個季度前宣布資本配置政策時，確實將特別股利定性為定期使用，以向股東返還更多資本。我們當然沒有改變這一點。所以這並不是回到過去的問題。我想，它就在那裡，我們正在按照我們想要的方式使用它。我們將繼續討論何時以及如何使用特別股利。

So at the moment, I would say that if there is capital allocation in addition to our fixed quarterly that it's more likely to be in the form of special dividends than buybacks. The buyback program was put in place mainly to deal with if we thought there were sustained long-term dislocations in the market, which was affecting our share price, so we could act opportunistically. But I would say that as we did in 2023, special dividends are more likely use of returning capital in the near term.

所以目前，我想說，如果除了我們固定的季度之外還有資本配置，那麼它更有可能以特別股息的形式出現，而不是回購。回購計劃的實施主要是為了應對如果我們認為市場存在持續的長期混亂，從而影響我們的股價，這樣我們就可以採取機會主義行動。但我想說，就像我們在 2023 年所做的那樣，特別股息更有可能在短期內用於資本返還。

Very helpful.

很有幫助。

Eirik Haavaldsen, Pareto Securities.

Eirik Haavaldsen，帕累託證券。

So just a follow-up. I was just curious because did I understand you correctly when you said that you don't really have a limit as to how big your cash coffers could really grow here because, of course, you're already at very decent levels and at current markets, that's growing rapidly. So you don't see swollen cash coffers as -- and there's no limit basically to where we can be.

所以只是後續行動。我只是很好奇，因為當你說你的現金儲備在這裡可以真正增長多少並沒有真正的限制時，我是否正確理解你的意思，因為當然，在當前的市場上，你已經處於非常不錯的水平，正在迅速成長。所以你不會看到現金金庫膨脹——而且我們的發展基本上沒有限制。

Right. So we don't have a number in mind that says once we reach this number that we would feel compelled to do something with that capital. Again, it's looking at the opportunities in the market, the need for fleet reinvestment, our view on when those opportunities might arise, how much capital we would need to take advantage of those, and then making a decision around our overall capital allocation.

正確的。因此，我們心中並沒有一個數字表明，一旦達到這個數字，我們就會覺得有必要用這筆資金做一些事情。同樣，它正在考慮市場上的機會、機隊再投資的需要、我們對這些機會何時可能出現的看法、我們需要多少資本來利用這些機會，然後圍繞我們的整體資本配置做出決定。

So where we stand today, we think that we will continue to build balance sheet strength, and we will balance that off against returning capital to shareholders via our capital allocation policy that we've outlined. And we can't really look into the crystal ball and say, well, in 12 months from now what will our decision be around capital allocation. But where we are today is that we're in the same place roughly when we announced our capital allocation nine months ago which is, our primary focus will continue to be on building financial strength, so we can make reinvestments in the fleet, balance that off against returning capital directly to shareholders.

因此，就我們今天的立場而言，我們認為我們將繼續增強資產負債表實力，並且我們將透過我們概述的資本配置政策平衡資產負債表與向股東返還資本之間的關係。我們無法真正了解水晶球並說，從現在起 12 個月後，我們將圍繞資本配置做出什麼決定。但我們今天的情況與九個月前宣布資本配置時的情況大致相同，即我們的主要重點將繼續放在增強財務實力上，這樣我們就可以對機隊進行再投資，平衡反對直接將資本返還給股東。

And if and when we get to a stage that we think that's not the appropriate capital allocation policy, and we should do something different which could be investing that capital, it could be returning it to shareholders, whatever it is. Then if we get to that stage, we will definitely communicate that to the market, and we'll go from there.

如果當我們到達一個階段時，我們認為這不是適當的資本配置政策，我們應該做一些不同的事情，可以投資這些資本，也可以將其回饋給股東，無論是什麼。如果我們到達那個階段，我們肯定會向市場傳達這一點，然後我們就會從那裡開始。

Okay. But I think previously you said that newbuild prices weren't really attractive, or these lead times were not really compelling. So does that change at all over the past six months?

好的。但我認為您之前說過新建價格並不真正有吸引力，或者這些交貨時間並不真正引人注目。那麼過去六個月這種情況有改變嗎？

As I mentioned earlier, I mean, the new building prices are quite high. And as I said, I think one of the things we need to balance that off against and I think probably all ship owners are is the view of the market over the next few years and the strong cash flows that we could produce over that period and putting the context of -- or putting the cost of vessels in that context. There's also M&A potential opportunities, there's time charter opportunities. There's a number of things or ways that we could deploy that capital and those are things that we're always looking at and analyzing. So there's nothing specific to (multiple speakers)

正如我之前提到的，我的意思是，新建築的價格相當高。正如我所說，我認為我們需要平衡的事情之一，我想可能所有船東都是對未來幾年市場的看法以及我們在此期間可以產生的強勁現金流，將船舶的成本置於該背景下。還有併購潛在機會，還有期租機會。我們可以透過很多事情或方式來部署這些資本，這些都是我們一直在關注和分析的事情。所以沒有什麼具體的（多個發言者）

But finally then, when you mentioned M&A and you -- I mean, you do highlight shareholder value creation here in a number of times. But in terms of M&A, do you look at your price NAV? Do you feel your share prices is fairly reflecting where the underlying values are at the moment? Just curious.

但最後，當您提到併購時，我的意思是，您確實多次強調了股東價值的創造。但在併購方面，你會看你的價格NAV嗎？您認為您的股價是否公平地反映了目前的基本價值？只是好奇。

Yeah. So our shares have traded in a range over the last 52 weeks. Obviously, we started the year at the beginning of 2023 at $28 a share. We traded up to over $64 a share. So it moves in a range. Sometimes we probably thought that that range was more reflective of the underlying value of the company than others.

是的。因此，我們的股票在過去 52 週內一直在一個區間內交易。顯然，我們在 2023 年初以每股 28 美元的價格開始了這一年。我們的交易價格高達每股 64 美元以上。所以它在一個範圍內移動。有時我們可能認為這個範圍比其他範圍更能反映公司的潛在價值。

But I guess our focus is on running the company as best we can, creating shareholder value and trying to illuminate our strategy and hoping that, that is reflected adequately in the share price. If we think that there is a dislocation that gives us an opportunity to buy back shares, we have that available to us, which we can use. But again, our focus is on long-term value creation more so than short-term share price movements.

但我想我們的重點是盡我們所能經營公司，創造股東價值並試圖闡明我們的策略，並希望這能充分反映在股價中。如果我們認為存在混亂，使我們有機會回購股票，我們就可以使用它。但同樣，我們更關注長期價值創造，而不是短期股價變動。

At this time, I would like to turn the call back over to the company.

這時我想把電話轉回公司。

Thank you for joining us today, and we'll speak to you next quarter.

感謝您今天加入我們，我們將在下個季度與您交談。

This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

今天的電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。