TELUS International (CDA) Inc (TIXT) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day. Welcome to TELUS Digital's Q4 2024 investor call. I would like to introduce your speaker Olena Lobach. Please go ahead.

再會。歡迎參加 TELUS Digital 2024 年第四季投資者電話會議。我想介紹一下演講者 Olena Lobach。請繼續。

Thank you, Carl. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for the TELUS Digital fourth quarter 2024 investor call. Joining our call will be Jason Macdonnell, our acting CEO, COO, and President of Customer Experience; Tobias Dengel, President of Digital Solutions; and Gopi Chande, our CFO.

謝謝你，卡爾。大家早安。感謝您今天參加 TELUS Digital 2024 年第四季投資者電話會議。參加我們電話會議的還有我們的代理執行長、營運長兼客戶體驗總裁 Jason Macdonnell；數位解決方案總裁 Tobias Dengel；以及我們的財務長 Gopi Chande。

We'll begin with Gopi providing a brief financial overview and our outlook. Jason and Tobias will then offer operational and strategic highlights before we open the call for questions. You can find our cautionary statements and information on non-GAAP measures used during today's call in the earnings release issued this morning and regulatory filings available on SEDAR Plus and EDGAR. With that, I will pass the call over to Gopi.

首先，Gopi 將提供簡短的財務概況和我們的展望。在我們開始提問之前，Jason 和 Tobias 將提供營運和策略亮點。您可以在今天早上發布的收益報告以及 SEDAR Plus 和 EDGAR 上提供的監管文件中找到我們的警告聲明以及有關今天電話會議中使用的非 GAAP 指標的資訊。說完這些，我將把電話轉給 Gopi。

Thank you, Olena, and good morning, everyone. I will speak to the 2024 Q4 and full year financial performance before I review our 2025 outlook. In the fourth quarter, TELUS Digital showed stabilization in operations and financial performance. Revenue of $691 million was up 5% from the previous year and steady year over year. For the full year, we generated revenue of $2.7 billion, a decline of 2%. However, delivering year over year stabilization in the second half.

謝謝你，奧萊娜，大家早安。在回顧 2025 年展望之前，我將談談 2024 年第四季和全年的財務表現。第四季度，TELUS Digital的營運和財務表現趨於穩定。營收 6.91 億美元，較上年增長 5%，且較去年同期保持穩定。全年我們的收入為 27 億美元，下降了 2%。然而，下半年實現了同比穩定。

Excluding the impact from a leading social media network client, our full year revenue was comparable to that of last year. At the same time, we expanded the scope of work with our parent company TELUS with digital solutions as a key driver of growth. Year over year revenues were up 7% in the quarter and up 17% for the year with TELUS.

除去領先的社群媒體網路客戶的影響，我們的全年收入與去年相當。同時，我們擴大了與母公司TELUS的合作範圍，以數位解決方案作為成長的主要動力。本季營收年增 7%，TELUS 全年營收年增 17%。

Revenue with our second largest client, Google, reflected a higher prior year comparison based in the fourth quarter. But for the full year, revenue with Google increased by 7% in a continued momentum across AI data solution projects. With our third largest client, a leading social media network, our full year revenues were lower. However, we achieved a 7% year over year growth in the fourth quarter.

我們第二大客戶谷歌的營收與去年第四季相比有所提高。但就全年而言，由於人工智慧數據解決方案項目的持續發展勢頭，谷歌的收入增長了 7%。由於我們的第三大客戶是領先的社交媒體網絡，我們的全年收入較低。然而，我們在第四季度實現了7%的同比增長。

For the full year, looking at our verticals, our growth in healthcare was driven by additional services to TELUS Health, while BFSI expansion reflected new business with Canadian-based banks and smaller regional financial services firms in North America.

就全年而言，縱觀我們的垂直領域，我們在醫療保健領域的成長是由對 TELUS Health 的額外服務推動的，而 BFSI 的擴張則反映了與加拿大銀行和北美較小的區域金融服務公司的新業務。

Weakness in e-commerce and fintech was largely due to lower service volumes from certain clients. Across our geographies in 2024, revenue from the Central America region, which includes Africa for our reporting purposes, grew 11%. This growth area partially offset decline from other geographies.

電子商務和金融科技的疲軟主要是因為某些客戶的服務量下降。2024 年，在我們所有地區中，來自中美洲地區（就我們的報告目的而言，包括非洲）的收入增加了 11%。這一增長區域部分抵消了其他地區的下滑。

Our adjusted EBITDA margin in the fourth quarter was 14.9%, showing further stabilization in comparison with prior quarters, 14.4%. We continue to manage non-essential costs very carefully, limiting indirect costs that don't contribute to revenue generation.

我們第四季的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 14.9%，與前幾季的 14.4% 相比進一步穩定。我們繼續非常謹慎地管理非必要成本，限制不會產生收入的間接成本。

In 2024, we achieved $30 million in cost efficiencies as planned after our mid-year reset. We close the year with net debt to adjusted EBITDA leverage ratio as per our credit agreement at 3.2x. The calculation of the ratio remains negatively impacted by lower adjusted EBITDA on a trailing 12 month basis, even though we continue to pay down our debt.

2024 年，經過年中調整，我們按計畫實現了 3,000 萬美元的成本效率。根據我們的信貸協議，我們今年的淨負債與調整後 EBITDA 槓桿比率為 3.2 倍。儘管我們繼續償還債務，但該比率的計算仍受到過去 12 個月調整後 EBITDA 較低的負面影響。

Informed by our forecasts for the first part of 2025, we proactively arranged for a credit agreement amendment that deferred the leverage step down from 3.75x to 3.25x to commence in the first quarter of 2026 instead of the first quarter of 2025. All other terms of the credit agreement remain unchanged.

根據我們對 2025 年上半年的預測，我們主動安排了信貸協議修訂，將槓桿率從 3.75 倍下調至 3.25 倍的計畫推遲到 2026 年第一季開始，而不是 2025 年第一季。信貸協議的所有其他條款保持不變。

Turning to our outlook for 2025, it is a balanced view of both opportunities and potential risks this year. At this early point in the year, we believe it's prudent to guide for approximately 2% revenue growth on an organic basis. Our sales funnel reflects the dynamics and volatility we're seeing in the industry with strong early signs of demand across our digital solution service line.

展望2025年，我們對今年的機會和潛在風險持平衡的看法。在年初這個階段，我們認為預計有機收入成長率約為 2% 是明智的。我們的銷售管道反映了我們在行業中看到的動態和波動性，我們的數位解決方案服務系列早期需求強勁。

Moving on to adjusted EBITDA, we expect approximately $400 million in 2025. When comparing our adjusted EBITDA to the prior year, it is important to normalize the comparison base by subtracting $60 million of other income from business combination related provisions spanning from the WillowTree put revaluation in 2024.

調整後的 EBITDA 預計 2025 年約為 4 億美元。在將我們的調整後 EBITDA 與上一年進行比較時，重要的是透過從 2024 年 WillowTree 看跌期權重估開始的業務合併相關準備金中減去 6000 萬美元的其他收入來使比較基數正常化。

In addition, related to the WillowTree earnout renegotiation in 2024, the year over year comparison is impacted by higher share-based compensation. With the total share-based compensation run rate of approximately $13 million per quarter going forward.

此外，與 2024 年 WillowTree 獲利重新談判相關，年比數據受到更高股權激勵的影響。未來每季的股權激勵總運作率約為 1,300 萬美元。

Normalized for these two items, our adjusted EBITDA outlook for 2025 implies a year over year decline of approximately 2%. This reflects some stabilization in our operations and importantly, investments to support our return to organic growth.

針對這兩項進行標準化後，我們對 2025 年調整後的 EBITDA 前景預測意味著年減約 2%。這反映了我們營運的某種程度的穩定，更重要的是，投資支持我們恢復有機成長。

In 2025, we'll continue to invest in our business, particularly to drive further operational efficiencies, including programs to further address attrition, workforce management optimization, and growing shared service centers of excellence.

2025 年，我們將繼續投資我們的業務，特別是進一步提高營運效率，包括進一步解決人員流失、勞動力管理優化和發展卓越共享服務中心的計畫。

We'll also invest in product development and marketing, including the Fuel iX go to market program, that should help us capture opportunities for growth and diversification over time. Overall, we've set aside approximately $65 million in investment includes of OpEx and CapEx to support these priorities in 2025.

我們還將投資產品開發和行銷，包括 Fuel iX 上市計劃，這將有助於我們抓住長期成長和多樣化的機會。總體而言，我們已撥出約 6,500 萬美元的投資（包括營運支出和資本支出）來支持 2025 年的這些優先事項。

As a percentage of revenue, our baseline annual capital expenditures will remain in the 4% to 5% range. As a result of these investments and additional cost saving initiatives in 2025, we expect to deliver $50 million of in-year savings spanning from the transformation of our global operation, reduced attrition, optimized supply planning, and further savings of indirect costs, including non-billable role and real estate rationalization, third party spend reductions, and further optimization of discretionary costs.

作為收入的百分比，我們的基準年度資本支出將保持在 4% 至 5% 的範圍內。透過這些投資和 2025 年的額外成本節約舉措，我們預計年內可節省 5,000 萬美元，包括全球營運轉型、減少人員流失、優化供應計劃以及進一步節省間接成本，包括非計費角色和房地產合理化、減少第三方支出以及進一步優化可自由支配的成本。

For adjusted diluted EPS, we expect approximately $0.32 for 2025 consistent a weighted average share count of approximately 280 million shares. For '25, we expect cash taxes in the range of $50 million to $60 million.

對於調整後的稀釋每股收益，我們預計 2025 年約為 0.32 美元，加權平均股數約為 2.8 億股。對於 25 年，我們預計現金稅將在 5,000 萬美元至 6,000 萬美元之間。

In terms of seasonality and to help you with quarterly forecasting, we expect the first and second half of the year to be approximately $48 million to $52 million for revenue and $45 million to $55 million for adjusted EBITDA.

就季節性而言，為了幫助您進行季度預測，我們預計今年上半年和下半年的營收約為 4,800 萬至 5,200 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 約為 4,500 萬至 5,500 萬美元。

The first quarter of the year is typically our softest of the four, and we expect this to be true for Q1 2025. We expect Q1 to be the lowest in revenue and adjusted EBITDA and lower than Q4 of 2024, and it will also be the lowest quarter of the year for EBITDA in 2025, given the upfront nature of investments we're making. We expect revenue EBITDA to build up in subsequent quarters in the second half of the year.

每年的第一季通常是四個季度中表現最疲軟的季度，我們預計 2025 年第一季也將如此。我們預計第一季的收入和調整後 EBITDA 將是最低的，並且低於 2024 年第四季度，考慮到我們投資的前期性質，它也將是 2025 年 EBITDA 全年最低的季度。我們預計營收 EBITDA 將在下半年的後續季度中增加。

While we don't specifically guide on free cash flow, Q4 2024 was unusually high, primarily due to the timing of working capital net inflows from a couple large client pre-payments. For 2025, we believe it's reasonable to expect free cash flow yield as a percentage of revenue of up to 10% for the full year, but we may see variations quarter over quarter.

雖然我們沒有具體指導自由現金流，但 2024 年第四季的自由現金流異常高，這主要是由於幾個大客戶預付款的營運資金淨流入時機所致。對於 2025 年，我們認為預計全年自由現金流收益率佔收入的百分比高達 10% 是合理的，但我們可能會看到季度間的變化。

In the first half, and particularly in Q1, we expect for cash flow to be lower, give given softer EBITDA and normalization in working capital inflows. In setting our outlook for 2025, we've taken a thoughtful, balanced approach, setting realistic assumptions this early in the year. With that, I'll pass to you Jason for operational and strategic highlights.

鑑於 EBITDA 疲軟和營運資金流入正常化，我們預計上半年，尤其是第一季的現金流將會下降。在製定 2025 年的展望時，我們採取了深思熟慮、平衡的方法，並在今年年初設定了切合實際的假設。接下來，我將向傑森介紹營運和策略亮點。

Thank you, Gopi. Good morning, everyone. The key theme exiting 2024 was reliable results, and we intend to continue to focus on this while using 2025 as a transition and investment year, as Gopi has mentioned, positioning us for growth in the future.

謝謝你，Gopi。大家早安。2024 年的關鍵主題是可靠的結果，我們打算繼續關注這一點，同時將 2025 年作為過渡和投資年，正如 Gopi 所提到的，為我們未來的成長做好準備。

We're focused on further improvements that optimize our technology, team, services, and geographic diversity. In the coming quarters, we'll continue to prioritize 4 key areas further evolving our business capabilities, service offerings, tools and processes, in particular in the AI space, delivering positively differentiated service quality by coupling technology and customer experience, developing our talent, including augmenting our team with new AI industry skills and leadership, driving efficiencies and rationalizing our assets and global footprint to invest in the locations of highest demand.

我們專注於進一步改進，優化我們的技術、團隊、服務和地理多樣性。在接下來的幾個季度中，我們將繼續優先考慮四個關鍵領域，進一步發展我們的業務能力、服務產品、工具和流程，特別是在人工智慧領域，透過結合技術和客戶體驗提供積極差異化的服務質量，發展我們的人才，包括透過新的人工智慧行業技能和領導力擴充我們的團隊，提高效率並合理化我們的資產和全球，以投資於需求最高的足跡。

All of these efforts will support all of these efforts will support our revenue growth goals.

所有這些努力都將支持我們的收入成長目標。

At the year end, our sales funnel stood at approximately $2 billion. We saw strong growth in our digital solutions pipeline in the last quarter, which Tobias will expand on later. This re-acceleration helped offset slower growth in other service areas.

截至年底，我們的銷售額約為 20 億美元。上個季度，我們的數位解決方案管道出現了強勁成長，Tobias 稍後會對此進行詳細說明。這種重新加速有助於抵消其他服務領域的成長放緩。

In the fourth quarter, and in particularly in December, we expanded relationships with several customer experienced clients within our top 10 cohort. Overall, in 2024, we expanded our business with 162 existing clients, demonstrating our efforts to diversify beyond our largest accounts and to drive better product diversification. We also added 55 net new clients across diverse industries, including 13 net new clients in the last quarter alone.

在第四季度，特別是 12 月份，我們與前十大客戶群中的幾位具有客戶經驗的客戶擴大了關係。總體而言，2024 年，我們擴大了業務範圍，現有客戶數量達到 162 家，這表明我們致力於在最大客戶之外實現業務多元化，並推動更好的產品多元化。我們還增加了來自不同行業的 55 個淨新客戶，其中僅上個季度就增加了 13 個淨新客戶。

Notably, we won customer experience service contracts for two large American retailers to be delivered in India and South Africa, locations in high demand and where we expect further growth.

值得注意的是，我們贏得了兩家大型美國零售商的客戶體驗服務合同，這些合約將交付給印度和南非，這兩個地區的需求量很大，我們預計會有進一步的成長。

In Africa in particular, we've seen rapid growth. Since making two small acquisitions in May of 2023 and establishing our footprint in Africa, we've successfully scaled our operations. We grew the number of team members by 800%. We generated a 430% increase in revenue and a 440% growth in profitability measured by our operating EBITDA for those locations.

特別是在非洲，我們看到了快速的成長。自 2023 年 5 月進行兩次小型收購併在非洲建立業務以來，我們已成功擴大業務規模。我們的團隊成員數量增加了800%。根據這些地區的營業 EBITDA 衡量，我們的收入成長了 430%，獲利能力成長了 440%。

So far, the focus in this region has been on customer experience management for our clients in communications and media, tech and games, e-commerce and fintech. It remains an important geography for our clients, delivery footprint diversification and where we will be working to drive further growth as we expand our facilities and broaden the service that delivered out of those locations.

到目前為止，我們在該地區的重點是為通訊和媒體、科技和遊戲、電子商務和金融科技領域的客戶提供客戶體驗管理。它仍然是我們客戶的重要地理位置，交付足跡多樣化，我們將在這裡努力推動進一步的成長，擴大我們的設施並擴大從這些地點提供的服務。

Among other key wins in the fourth quarter in AI Data Solutions, we added 2 new AI research and product companies to support the development of their multimodal large language models. We also won 2 new clients in the autonomous transportation sector.

除了人工智慧資料解決方案在第四季度取得的其他重要勝利之外，我們還增加了 2 家新的人工智慧研究和產品公司，以支援其多模式大型語言模型的開發。我們還在自動駕駛交通領域贏得了 2 位新客戶。

Over the course of last year we saw good momentum in AI data solutions which we are working to carry forward into 2025. We are very excited about what we see here. This came on the strength of our global practice and client relationships with several hyper scalers, notably Google, but others as well. For example, we further diversified our work with two social media players by adding key AI data solutions projects. These are existing clients who are investing heavily in the LLM development.

去年，我們看到了人工智慧數據解決方案的良好發展勢頭，我們正在努力將其延續到 2025 年。我們對在這裡看到的一切感到非常興奮。這是憑藉我們與多家超大規模企業（尤其是谷歌，當然也包括其他企業）的全球實踐和客戶關係。例如，我們透過增加關鍵的人工智慧數據解決方案項目，進一步實現了與兩家社交媒體公司的合作多樣化。這些都是在 LLM 開發上投入大量資金的現有客戶。

Now in industry news on Asia-based DeepSeek as well as large investment intentions from North American hyper scalers, this bodes well for demand in AI data solutions and in particular for more evolved LLM tasks and projects. Our services play a key role in supporting LLM training and development, and we will need to continue to rapidly advance our capabilities in the LLM space race.

目前，有關亞洲 DeepSeek 的行業新聞以及來自北美超大規模企業的大規模投資意向，預示著對 AI 數據解決方案的需求將會增加，特別是對更先進的 LLM 任務和項目的需求。我們的服務在支援 LLM 培訓和發展方面發揮關鍵作用，我們需要繼續快速提升我們在 LLM 太空競賽中的能力。

Competitive dynamics among hyper scales only intensify the need for further investment, and we are making investments to our services and related tools to remain an integral part of the AI evolution.

超大規模之間的競爭動態只會加劇進一步投資的需求，我們正在對我們的服務和相關工具進行投資，以繼續成為人工智慧發展不可或缺的一部分。

Rapid news flow, particularly in the technology space, marked the beginning of 2025. We were compelled to provide a public statement in early January to remind the market of some important aspects of the content moderation services we provide. Specifically, we aim to be transparent on what changes impact our business.

快速的新聞流動，尤其是在科技領域，標誌著 2025 年的開始。我們被迫在一月初發表公開聲明，提醒市場我們提供的內容審核服務的一些重要面向。具體來說，我們的目標是透明地展示哪些變化會影響我們的業務。

We currently provide a broad spectrum of content moderation services for several clients, including a leading social media network and other social media clients. We don't do third party fact checking, which is a very specific term in the US. We do provide content moderation primarily in Europe, where specific laws govern moderation.

我們目前為多家客戶提供廣泛的內容審核服務，其中包括領先的社群媒體網路和其他社群媒體客戶。我們不進行第三方事實查核，這在美國是一個非常具體的術語。我們確實主要在歐洲提供內容審核，那裡有特定的法律來管理審核。

Importantly, we moderate a diversified set of highly critical content, including what's considered potentially harmful or illegal. The critical and complex nature of this particular content that we moderate is a fundamental aspect of doing business for social networks and similar content creation platforms and tends to have more human in the loop requirements.

重要的是，我們會審查各種高度批評的內容，包括那些被認為具有潛在危害或非法性質的內容。我們審核的這種特定內容的關鍵性和複雜性是社交網路和類似內容創建平台開展業務的一個基本方面，並且往往需要更多人為參與。

Now this all being said, the trust, safety and security service sector is changing rapidly, as are the requirements and demand for certain geographies.

綜上所述，信任、安全和安保服務產業正在迅速變化，某些地區的要求和需求也在迅速變化。

We may see pressure in this regard, even in Europe. We will leverage changing demand to advance and adapt our trust, safety and security services and optimize the locations we serve from while continuing to stay nimble as the industry changes. Some changes may require further investment as we advance tools, shift locations, establish new footprint, and incur transition costs. This agility is a hallmark of our organization and in fact an important aspect of why companies choose us as a partner, and it's one of the reasons why we have a diverse set of services within our portfolio.

我們可能會看到這方面的壓力，即使在歐洲也是如此。我們將利用不斷變化的需求來推進和調整我們的信任、安全和安保服務，並優化我們服務的地點，同時在行業變化時繼續保持靈活性。隨著我們改進工具、轉移位置、建立新的足跡並產生過渡成本，某些變化可能需要進一步投資。這種敏捷性是我們組織的標誌，實際上也是公司選擇我們作為合作夥伴的重要方面，也是我們在產品組合中提供多樣化服務的原因之一。

Now before I turn the call over to Tobias, let me share some quick progress and outline our efforts on key strategic initiatives that I outlined earlier. We're committed to delivering service quality excellence. Our goal is to be ranked as the leader across all our client counts. Achieving this across the board will strengthen our competitive position in terms of pricing, clients' heightened expectations, and in new business areas we're positioning.

現在，在我將電話轉給托比亞斯之前，讓我先分享一些快速進展，並概述我們在之前概述的關鍵戰略舉措方面的努力。我們致力於提供卓越的服務品質。我們的目標是成為所有客戶中的領導者。全面實現這一目標將增強我們在定價、客戶更高期望以及我們定位的新業務領域的競爭地位。

In customer experience management and content moderation in particular, we expect to see further industry consolidation this year. Our competitive positioning is directly linked to delivering the best customer experience across all benchmarks. And for each client, where clients choose to consolidate partners, services, or substitute legacy support with AI capabilities, we look to be the partner of choice in driving this technology service change and or leverage our relationship with the client to increase product intensity and diversification or grow new locations exiting regions with diminishing demand.

特別是在客戶體驗管理和內容審核方面，我們預計今年產業將進一步整合。我們的競爭定位與在所有基準上提供最佳客戶體驗直接相關。對於每位客戶，當客戶選擇整合合作夥伴、服務或以人工智慧功能取代傳統支援時，我們都希望成為推動這項技術服務變革的首選合作夥伴，或利用我們與客戶的關係來提高產品強度和多樣化，或在需求減少的地區拓展新業務。

We are deploying targeted improvement plans to enhance our operational performance and yield better customer sentiment, and we're seeing early results in this regard. We continuously track what's called the customer sentiment index. It's defined as our customer experience delivery efficacy and how likely a client is to grow with us or to recommend us to other clients. Over the course of the fourth quarter, our customer sentiment index improved by 20% across our top 55 accounts, and we're not stopping there.

我們正在部署有針對性的改進計劃，以提高我們的營運績效並改善客戶情緒，並且我們在這方面看到了早期成果。我們持續追蹤所謂的客戶情緒指數。它被定義為我們的客戶體驗交付效率以及客戶與我們一起成長或向其他客戶推薦我們的可能性。在第四季度，我們前 55 個帳戶的客戶情緒指數提高了 20%，而且我們不會止步於此。

Going hand in hand with service quality excellence is talent development in an annual employee survey conducted by Concentric, our 2025 engagement score improved by 200 basis points to 78%. Having joined TELUS Digital five months ago, I personally commend all of our team members for their unwavering commitment to customer service excellence and continuing engagement, and I want to thank everyone on our global team for their very warm welcome.

與卓越服務品質相輔相成的是人才發展，在 Concentric 進行的年度員工調查中，我們的 2025 年敬業度得分提高了 200 個基點，達到 78%。五個月前加入 TELUS Digital 後，我個人對我們所有團隊成員對卓越客戶服務和持續參與的堅定承諾表示讚賞，並要感謝我們全球團隊中每個人的熱烈歡迎。

For our team members, we're prioritizing AI skills, career development, and applying AI for lower value tasks while hiring -- our hiring strategy for the near term is on AI talent and billable positions to drive revenue growth.

對於我們的團隊成員，我們在招募時優先考慮人工智慧技能、職業發展以及將人工智慧應用於低價值任務——我們近期的招募策略是依靠人工智慧人才和可計費職位來推動收入成長。

In 2025, we'll show further progress in transforming our operations through investments and focus on operational efficiencies and workforce management. Beyond internal transformation, our client facing business will also continue to evolve. And now I'll hand it over to Tobias for a brief discussion on digital solutions.

2025年，我們將透過投資進一步推動營運轉型，並專注於提高營運效率和勞動力管理。除了內部轉型之外，我們面向客戶的業務也將持續發展。現在我將把時間交給 Tobias 來簡要討論數位解決方案。

Thank you, Jason, and thank you Gopi. Good morning everyone. I'd like to start by giving you an update on our broader digital solutions business and then touch on our go to market strategy around digitization of CX and our bundled offerings.

謝謝你，傑森，也謝謝你，戈皮。大家早安。首先，我想向您介紹我們更廣泛的數位解決方案業務的最新情況，然後談談我們圍繞 CX 數位化和捆綁產品的市場策略。

We're experiencing a re-acceleration in our digital solutions business with quarter over quarter growth and a solid competitive positioning underscored by our world-class net promoter score. This forms the foundation for positioning TELUS Digital's products and services with clients in market conditions that are more favorable than we've experienced over the past 18 months.

我們的數位解決方案業務正在重新加速發展，逐季成長，世界一流的淨推薦值鞏固了我們的競爭地位。這為在比過去 18 個月更有利的市場條件下向客戶定位 TELUS Digital 的產品和服務奠定了基礎。

Our core position continues to gain traction with our clients. We are laser focused on helping our clients evolve the entire end to end journey of their customers, from digital marketing and sales to products such as apps and websites through to AI supported bot and human support, all underpinned by a common data layer.

我們的核心地位持續受到客戶的青睞。我們專注於幫助客戶改善其客戶的整個端到端旅程，從數位行銷和銷售到應用程式和網站等產品，再到人工智慧支援的機器人和人工支持，所有這些都由一個通用數據層支撐。

Exciting examples from the last few months include winning new projects for a national bank in Southeast Asia, a large win back with a timeshare client for web implementation, and a digital workflow management solution for an existing CX services client.

過去幾個月令人興奮的例子包括為東南亞一家國家銀行贏得新專案、為分時度假客戶贏得網路實施的大量回報，以及為現有的 CX 服務客戶提供數位工作流程管理解決方案。

In addition to closing new sales that provide a healthy lineup for signed deals that are pending for 2025, I'm also incredibly proud of the high quality work we're delivering for our clients, particularly on the WillowTree side, where we achieved a Q4 net promoter score of 75, maintaining our full year average above 70 and squarely representing best in class among our various peer sets.

除了完成新銷售，為 2025 年待簽訂的協議提供健康的陣容之外，我還為我們為客戶提供的高品質工作感到無比自豪，特別是在 WillowTree 方面，我們第四季度的淨推薦值達到了 75，保持了全年平均水平 70 以上，並且在我們各個同行中處於領先地位。

High client satisfaction powers a virtuous flywheel for our future business, which is what we see in examples like a 50% growth in billings with a major global news publisher, where we are reimagining and rebuilding the mobile app user experience, and the opportunity to compete for a leading digital re-platforming project with one of the largest hotel groups in the United States.

高客戶滿意度為我們未來的業務提供了良性飛輪，正如我們所看到的，例如，與一家全球主要新聞出版商的賬單增長了 50%，我們正在重新構想和重建移動應用程序用戶體驗，並有機會與美國最大的酒店集團之一競爭領先的數位平台重建項目。

Now let me turn to how we are generating real synergies between our digital and CX offerings. A key principle of our strategy has been to drive digitization of both our internal operations and our clients' CX businesses, and I'm pleased to report that we're making significant strides in both of these initiatives.

現在讓我來談談我們如何在數位和 CX 產品之間產生真正的協同效應。我們策略的關鍵原則是推動內部營運和客戶 CX 業務的數位化，我很高興地報告，我們在這兩項舉措上都取得了重大進展。

We have strong proof points in the digitization of CX with external customers via both our consulting services, including our TX strategy audits that identify high value creation opportunities and application of our data science and AI engineering expertise and technology solutions. To meet demand for our CX strategy engagements, we are growing the team and expanding the offering to our clients globally.

我們透過諮詢服務向外部客戶提供了 CX 數位化的有力證明，包括我們的 TX 策略審計（可識別高價值創造機會）以及資料科學和 AI 工程專業知識和技術解決方案的應用。為了滿足我們 CX 策略參與的需求，我們正在擴大團隊並擴大向全球客戶提供的服務。

Encouraged by the increasing number of client opportunities and problem statements we can help address, we recently announced the launch of the TELUS Digital Research Hub in partnership with the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil.

受到我們能夠協助解決的客戶機會和問題陳述不斷增加的鼓舞，我們最近宣布與巴西聖保羅大學合作推出 TELUS 數位研究中心。

This reflects our commitment to foster the next generation of AI researchers and develop advancements in AI fueled CX innovation while ensuring that AI advancements remain human centered, ethically designed, and purpose driven.

這反映了我們致力於培養下一代人工智慧研究人員和發展由人工智慧推動的 CX 創新的進步，同時確保人工智慧進步仍然以人為本、符合道德設計和以目標為導向。

Let me briefly touch on Fuel iX. In 2024, we built and refined this platform, and we're now bringing it to clients beyond the TELUS family armed with our insights and our learnings. Our goal in 2025 is to establish awareness in the marketplace and a better understanding of our capabilities and benefits, in particular, when bundling it in with our services and digital solutions, ultimately driving employee productivity and business outcomes.

讓我簡單談談 Fuel iX。2024 年，我們建立並完善了這個平台，現在我們憑藉著我們的見解和經驗，將它帶給 TELUS 家族以外的客戶。我們 2025 年的目標是在市場上建立知名度，並更好地了解我們的能力和優勢，特別是將其與我們的服務和數位解決方案捆綁在一起時，最終提高員工的工作效率和業務成果。

In the fourth quarter, we closed a sale to a Canadian engineering firm for an initial deployment of Fuel iX, and we are excited about the potential to deliver value. It illustrates the power of working with the TELUS brand and our diversified Canadian sales force.

第四季度，我們與一家加拿大工程公司完成了 Fuel iX 的初步部署，我們對其創造價值的潛力感到非常興奮。它體現了與 TELUS 品牌和我們多元化的加拿大銷售團隊合作的力量。

Part of our Fuel iX roadmap is focused on serving the CX space and bolstering TELUS Digital's overall value proposition and differentiation to CX customers. For example, our agent co-pilots deployed for a mobile games client demonstrated immediate impact of reducing average handle time by over 25% with less than 2 weeks of setup. The ease of use, flexibility, and architecture of our solution made knowledge retrieval faster and more accurate for agents.

我們的 Fuel iX 路線圖的一部分專注於服務 CX 領域並增強 TELUS Digital 對 CX 客戶的整體價值主張和差異化。例如，我們為行動遊戲客戶部署的代理副駕駛在不到兩週的設定時間內就立即顯示出將平均處理時間減少 25% 以上的效果。我們的解決方案的易用性、靈活性和架構使代理程式能夠更快、更準確地檢索知識。

I hope you notice we're trying to keep our remarks brief today to leave more time for your questions. Before I turn over the mic to you, I want to reiterate that we're at the forefront of a significant shift in how businesses approach customer experience and digital transformation. Our combination of CX expertise and digital solutions positions us well to capitalize on these market trends and technology advancements.

我希望你們注意到，我們今天的發言盡量簡短，以便留出更多時間回答你們的問題。在我將麥克風交給您之前，我想重申一下，我們正處於企業處理客戶體驗和數位轉型方式重大轉變的前沿。我們將 CX 專業知識與數位解決方案相結合，使我們能夠充分利用這些市場趨勢和技術進步。

With that, we're looking forward to hear your feedback and address your questions. Carl, over to you.

我們期待聽到您的回饋並解答您的問題。卡爾，交給你了。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Stephanie Price, CIBC.

加拿大帝國商業銀行 (CIBC) 的 Stephanie Price。

Good morning. Hoping you can dig a little bit more into the 2% revenue growth guidance that you provided. Curious about the assumptions around pricing and the demand environment that are embedded in the guide.

早安.希望您能更深入了解您提供的 2% 收入成長指引。對指南中嵌入的有關定價和需求環境的假設感到好奇。

Thanks, Stephanie. Gopi, why don't you take a shot at that.

謝謝，斯蒂芬妮。Gopi，為什麼不嘗試呢？

Perfect, thanks. Good morning, Stephie. So with the revenue guidance of 2%, I'll start with it is balanced in terms of some of the risks and opportunities we're seeing. So I'll go through what those are. As Tobias mentioned, we are seeing some opportunity on our digital solution side. We're seeing higher demand in our funnel and backlog and that gives us confidence in terms of the growth trajectory for the year. Now that's balanced with some of what we're seeing on the CX trust safety and security side where again there is some volatility there and we're seeing some shifts in dynamics in the segments.

非常好，謝謝。早安，史蒂芬妮。因此，在 2% 的收入預期下，我首先要考慮的是，它與我們看到的一些風險和機會是平衡的。所以我將會解釋一下這些是什麼。正如托比亞斯所提到的，我們在數位解決方案方面看到了一些機會。我們看到通路和積​​壓訂單的需求增加，這讓我們對今年的成長軌跡充滿信心。現在，這與我們在 CX 信任安全和保障方面看到的一些情況相平衡，那裡再次出現了一些波動，並且我們看到各個細分市場的動態發生了一些變化。

Those are expected, and ones that we're watching and look to be part of that transformation, but we did also want to be conservative in terms of the growth we see there.

這些都是預料之中的，我們正在觀察並希望它們成為這種轉變的一部分，但我們也希望對所看到的成長持保守態度。

From a pricing perspective, we are seeing stabilization. It's still very competitive, but we are seeing stabilization we see that in our margins and on the digital side again with some of that demand coming back, we are able to increase our utilization as well as maintain some of that pricing pressure. So a strong sales funnel, some early demand on the digital solution side. So we do think that 2% is a balanced way to approach the year this early in the year.

從定價角度來看，我們看到了穩定性。競爭仍然非常激烈，但我們看到利潤率和數字方面正在趨於穩定，隨著部分需求的回升，我們能夠提高利用率並保持部分定價壓力。因此，強大的銷售管道，數位解決方案方面的一些早期需求。因此，我們確實認為，在年初就達到 2% 的成長速度是一種平衡的方式。

And maybe I would just top up Stephanie that some of the cost efficiency and streamlining that we're doing in the organization allows us to be more competitively priced where that's required.

也許我想補充一下史蒂芬妮，我們在組織中所做的一些成本效率和精簡使我們在需要的地方能夠提供更具競爭力的價格。

Thank you and if I could just maybe ask one follow up. Just you mentioned consolidation several times in your prepared remarks. Just curious how you're thinking about the range of capabilities that are needed to win these consolidation events and what your win rate has been when you've been looking at these consolidation events within clients.

謝謝，如果我可以問一個後續問題。您剛才在準備好的發言中多次提到了合併。只是好奇您如何看待贏得這些整合事件所需的能力範圍，以及當您在客戶中查看這些整合事件時您的獲勝率是多少。

Sure, when we look at this, obviously I spoke to the customer experience side of it, especially in the CX space. When there's a consolidation of event, key factors are obviously the relationship that we've had with the client, how long they've been with us, how diversified they are with us in terms of the service set. So, service diversity is important. I think the other aspect of it is the customer experience and the history of that customer experience.

當然，當我們看這個問題時，顯然我談到了客戶體驗方面，特別是在 CX 領域。當進行活動整合時，關鍵因素顯然是我們與客戶的關係、他們與我們合作的時間長短以及他們與我們提供的服務多樣化程度。因此，服務多樣性很重要。我認為它的另一個面向是客戶體驗以及客戶體驗的歷史。

So the SLAs that we deliver, and of course agility matters as well. So having the geographic diversity that we have sometimes allows us to transition with a client where they have new language or cultural demands. I think the last aspect is, how it fits within our overall strategy as well, because we look for some of these transitions to help us optimize our costs, our profitability, and certainly sometimes our asset or infrastructure investments.

因此，我們提供的 SLA 以及敏捷性當然也很重要。因此，地理多樣性有時使我們能夠隨著客戶的新語言或文化需求而轉變。我認為最後一個面向是，它如何適應我們的整體策略，因為我們希望透過這些轉變來幫助我們優化成本、獲利能力，當然有時還有我們的資產或基礎設施投資。

So whether it's real estate, optimization or the availability of talent, languages in a particular area, all of those factors come into play and I would say customer experience relationship and talent availability are probably some of the bigger drivers.

因此，無論是房地產、優化還是人才的可用性、特定領域的語言，所有這些因素都會發揮作用，我認為客戶體驗關係和人才可用性可能是一些更大的驅動因素。

Puneet Jain, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Puneet Jain。

Hey, thanks for taking my question. I wanted to ask like follow up further on AI related conversations. Have you had like any client that has transitioned to more automation using AI capabilities and what did that imply for your revenue or margins on those projects or contracts.

嘿，謝謝你回答我的問題。我想進一步詢問有關人工智慧的對話。您是否曾有過像客戶一樣使用人工智慧功能實現更多自動化的情況？這對您在這些項目或合約上的收入或利潤意味著什麼？

Sure, why don't you take that Tobia and then I can top up.

當然，你為什麼不帶那個托比亞，然後我可以充值。

Yeah, so we talked a lot about deploying our digital solutions capabilities, including Fuel to our existing CX clients and you need to think about that in kind of two ways. One is how do we support agents and make them more efficient and accurate. And then, two, is how do we answer direct consumer questions and help our clients do that. I think in both those scenarios when you look at what's going on in the marketplace, what you're trying to do first and foremost is really improve our clients' experience that they're delivering to their end customers, right?

是的，我們談了很多關於部署我們的數位解決方案功能，包括向我們現有的 CX 客戶部署 Fuel，您需要從兩個方面來考慮這個問題。一是我們如何支持代理商，讓他們更有效率、更準確。其次，我們如何回答消費者的直接問題並幫助我們的客戶做到這一點。我認為，在這兩種情況下，當您觀察市場上正在發生的事情時，您首先要做的就是真正改善我們的客戶為最終客戶提供的體驗，對嗎？

Because you're trying to answer things quickly via AI that are easy, generally speaking, more easier, and then the more complex questions go to agents, and we need to support those agents with information. As I mentioned one example in the prepared remarks, we were able to reduce average handle time by 25%. What that then means is we can answer calls more quickly. We can answer the more complex calls with human beings, and we're significantly elevating the end customer experience, which is the ultimate goal.

因為你試圖透過人工智慧快速回答簡單的問題，一般來說，更容易，然後更複雜的問題會交給代理，我們需要用資訊來支援這些代理。正如我在準備好的演講中提到的一個例子，我們能夠將平均處理時間減少 25%。這意味著我們可以更快地接聽電話。我們可以用人工接聽更複雜的電話，我們正在大幅提升最終客戶體驗，這是我們的最終目標。

So I think what we're seeing in the short term is short shortening of queues, increased levels of customer sat and customers service and I think a balanced approach on some of the efficiencies that we're gaining on the back end.

因此，我認為我們在短期內看到的是排隊時間的縮短、客戶滿意度和客戶服務水準的提高，以及我們在後端獲得的一些效率的平衡方法。

Got it. So the question like what I really wanted to understand was like as you implement some of these AI solutions and as they move into production, so all those productivity savings like -- do they generally get passed on to clients and is it fair to assume that like your revenue share on that contract, on that project like contracts by 15% - 25% assuming there might be some revenue from the solution that you provide as well.

知道了。所以我真正想了解的問題是，當你實施一些人工智慧解決方案並投入生產時，所有這些生產力節省下來的錢——它們通常會轉嫁給客戶嗎？是否可以公平地假設你在那個合約、那個專案合約中的收入份額為 15% - 25%，假設你提供的解決方案也可能有一些收入。

Yeah, I think when the way to look at it is right now, first of all we have early days in terms of the number of implementations that are going on across the industry where there's fundamental cost takeout early days. So and one of the reasons for that and on the AI side is to what Tobias has mentioned is that AI is generally taking care of a lot of the sort of low hanging fruit on things like call volume as one example, or call handling time as another example. So that actually frees up resources and capacity to go after more complex calls or to address volume that perhaps was being abandoned previously. So that's one aspect of it.

是的，我認為從現在的角度來看，首先，就整個產業正在進行的實施數量而言，我們還處於早期階段，早期就存在基本的成本削減。因此，其中一個原因就是託拜厄斯在人工智慧方面提到的，人工智慧通常會處理很多容易實現的事情，例如通話量或通話處理時間。這樣實際上就釋放了資源和能力來處理更複雜的呼叫或處理以前可能被放棄的呼叫量。這是其中的一個面向。

The other aspect to consider is that it depends on how the contracts are laid out with the client. So some existing contracts are based on capacity provided or hourly work provided. Other contracts are outcome-based and you're seeing more and more trends that it's not at a stage where it's the 15% to 25% of contracts yet, but more and more contracts are looking at how do we do outcome-based pricing.

需要考慮的另一個方面是，這取決於與客戶簽訂的合約如何。因此，一些現有的合約是基於提供的容量或提供的小時工作。其他合約是基於結果的，你會看到越來越多的趨勢是，它還沒有達到 15% 到 25% 的合約的階段，但越來越多的合約正在考慮如何進行基於結果的定價。

So that the more effective you are and you leveraging AI and other technologies to handle transactions for customers that you can split that value. And how that split happens and what percentages are involved are still negotiated contract by contract so that's sort of where.

這樣，您越能有效地利用人工智慧和其他技術為客戶處理交易，您就越能分割價值。至於如何分割以及涉及的百分比是多少，仍然需要透過合約進行協商。

Yeah, Jason, I'll just add on one point here is, and I think this goes to the previous question as well vis a vis consolidation is our clients are looking to see who are their more strategic partners and those strategic partners are going to get more of a share of their CX volume. And how strategic you are is in essence defined by how much technology, thought leadership, and strategy you're bringing to those clients. And so I think a big part of this is if we are the leaders in those accounts of helping our clients innovate, we're also going to get more share over time.

是的，傑森，我只想在這裡補充一點，我認為這也與上一個問題有關，關於整合，我們的客戶正在尋找誰是他們更具策略性的合作夥伴，而這些策略合作夥伴將獲得更多的 CX 份額。而你的策略能力本質上取決於你為客戶帶來了多少技術、思想領導和策略。因此，我認為其中很大一部分原因是，如果我們在幫助客戶創新方面處於領先地位，那麼隨著時間的推移，我們也將獲得更多的份額。

Yeah, no, I agree, and that's great explanation. Thanks for that. And I'd also like to dig deeper into this $50 million cost saving that you expect from restructuring efforts. Can you talk about like the timing, when like those savings will flow in your income statement?

是的，不，我同意，這是一個很好的解釋。謝謝。我還想更深入地探討您期望透過重組節省的 5000 萬美元成本。您能談談這些儲蓄何時會流入您的損益表嗎？

Sure, Gopi, do you want to talk a little bit about the timing on that from a quarterly perspective and maybe we can add a little bit of flavor on what those types of initiatives are.

當然，Gopi，你想從季度的角度談談這個時間安排嗎？也許我們可以稍微解釋一下這些類型的舉措是什麼。

Perfect thanks, Puneet. So, before I touch on efficiencies, I'll talk about some of the investments that are going to drive those efficiencies that it also will inform the timing question that you had. So our investments fall into the category of sales and marketing, but also in terms of ops transformation and so work that we're doing to influence retention, reduce attrition, training with our leaders to support that incentives supply planning automation, so really improving how we're tracking our scheduling attendance, absence reporting, etc.

非常感謝，Puneet。因此，在我談到效率之前，我將討論一些將推動這些效率的投資，它也將解答您遇到的時間問題。因此，我們的投資不僅屬於銷售和行銷類別，也屬於營運轉型方面，我們正在進行的工作旨在影響保留率、減少人員流失，對我們的領導者進行培訓以支持激勵供應計劃自動化，從而真正改善我們跟踪排班出勤、缺勤報告等的方式。

And then also investing in shared service, centers of excellence so that we can be providing our services internally, our back office services more efficiently. So that investment started in '24 and will continue in '25 and the investment will be primarily focused more in H1 than H2. As a result of that investment, we're expecting to see the $50 million inefficiencies that I mentioned that will be weighted more and H2 than H1.

然後還投資共享服務和卓越中心，以便我們能夠更有效率地提供內部服務和後台服務。因此，投資始於 24 年，並將持續到 25 年，投資將主要集中在上半年，而不是下半年。由於這項投資，我們預計將看到我提到的 5000 萬美元的低效率，其權重將大於 H2 而不是 H1。

Again, some of the direct relationships you'll see from that operation transformation is we are expecting lower attrition, lower penalties where we sometimes have parameters in our contracts depending on how we're able to maintain attendance.

再次，從營運轉型中您會看到一些直接的關係，我們期望更低的人員流失率和更低的罰款，有時我們的合約中會包含參數，這取決於我們如何維持出席率。

And then there's other areas that we're also focused on in terms of role, real estate rationalization, looking at our licenses, staff licenses in particular as they hit our OpEx, vendor optimization, looking at our contractors consultants, and any discretionary spend. That latter category is happening all throughout the year, so that will be an equal distribution, but it will be some of the ops transformations that will gear more towards the second half than the first half.

然後，我們還關注其他領域，包括角色、房地產合理化、審查我們的許可證、特別是員工許可證（因為它們會影響我們的營運支出）、供應商優化、審查我們的承包商顧問以及任何可自由支配的支出。後一類將在全年發生，因此將是一個平等的分佈，但一些營運轉型將更傾向於下半年而不是上半年。

Thanks, Gopi, and I would add to that there's a lot of resource strategy and workforce management capabilities that we're employing this year and aim to employ, which allow us to use our workforce more efficiently but also to drive optimization on our book to bill capabilities or our scheduling capabilities and each of those has a very discrete road map if you will of capability that has to be employed to to drive the efficiencies we're looking for.

謝謝，Gopi，我想補充一點，我們今年正在採用併計劃採用許多資源戰略和勞動力管理能力，這不僅使我們能夠更有效地利用我們的勞動力，而且還能推動我們的訂單到賬單能力或調度能力的優化，如果你願意的話，每個能力都有一個非常獨立的路線圖，必須採用這些能力來推動我們所尋求的效率。

And then more generally, of course you can imagine we have a larger list of projects to backstop that $50 million to ensure that, from a risk adjusted or a timing adjusted basis that we can fulfill the efficiency targets that we have. So those are just a couple of additional top-ups.

然後更一般地說，當然你可以想像我們有一份更大的項目清單來支持這 5000 萬美元，以確保從風險調整或時間調整的基礎上，我們能夠實現我們的效率目標。所以這些只是一些額外的補充。

Cassie Chan, Bank of America.

美國銀行的 Cassie Chan。

Great, thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to ask a follow up understanding, the first quarter revenue. So I know you guys talked about stabilization and then you mentioned first quarter revenue growth was probably going to be lower than the fourth quarter. So just to make sure that I understand it, is it fair to say that one is sequentially lower and lower than the flat year, on a year over year basis than the flat in 4Q. So first quarter likely down low single digits and gradual improvement throughout '25, so exiting probably in mid single digit growth. Thanks.

太好了，感謝您回答我的問題。我只是想問一下後續情況，第一季的收入。所以我知道你們談到了穩定，然後你們提到第一季的營收成長可能會低於第四季。因此，為了確保我理解正確，可以公平地說，一個季度的同比增幅比持平的一年要低，而另一個季度的同比增幅比持平的第四季度要低。因此，第一季可能會下降個位數，並在整個25年逐步改善，因此最終可能會實現中等個位數的成長。謝謝。

Why do you take that, Gopi.

你為什麼要這麼做，Gopi。

Sure. Yeah, Cassie, you nailed it there in terms of what we're expecting. So Q1 lower than Q4 primarily because of seasonality, from a revenue perspective and then marginally EBITDA lower because of the investments we're making. One nuance I'll just pull out, you mentioned we would be lower year over year and that is true. Again in 2024, we did have a non-recurring non-cash theme related to the WillowTree revaluation, so that's the primary driver year over year in Q1 2025 that we're lower.

當然。是的，卡西，就我們的期望而言，你完全正確。因此，從營收角度來看，第一季低於第四季主要是因為季節性因素，而 EBITDA 則因我們的投資而略低。我只想指出一個細微差別，您提到我們的收入會逐年下降，這是事實。同樣在 2024 年，我們確實有一個與 WillowTree 重估相關的非經常性非現金主題，因此這是 2025 年第一季同比下降的主要驅動因素。

And then as we look forward, we do expect every subsequent quarter to increase both in revenue growth and EBITDA growth, with the second half being stronger than the first half, both on revenue growth as well as EBITDA because of some of those investments we're making earlier in the year that we expect to get the return in the latter half of the year.

展望未來，我們確實預計接下來的每季營收和 EBITDA 都會成長，下半年的營收和 EBITDA 成長都會強於上半年，因為我們在今年稍早進行的一些投資預計將在下半年獲得回報。

Okay, that's really helpful, thanks. And just to follow up. I know you guys talked about investments going to be about $65 million and for the year and then also about like $60 million in cost savings, just the timing of that and also are these different from the maybe like $60 million that you guys have talked about before in '24.

好的，這真的很有幫助，謝謝。只是為了跟進。我知道你們談到了今年的投資將達到約 6500 萬美元，然後還將節省約 6000 萬美元的成本，只是時間問題，而且這些與你們之前在 24 年談到的 6000 萬美元有什麼不同。

I guess just talk about what specific areas you're making the investments in versus what areas you guys are cost savings in and. You know if you're expecting headcount to grow in 2025 because of all of those things, thanks.

我想只需討論一下你們在哪些具體領域進行投資以及你們在哪些領域節省成本。您知道，如果您預計 2025 年員工人數會因為所有這些因素而成長，謝謝。

So, I can touch on timing and then Jason see if you can top up. So Cassie, in terms of timing on the investments on both sales and marketing, and with our ops transformation slightly more weighted to H1 than H2 in terms of how we'll be making those investments. I will speak to your question around are these similar to what we were doing before, so they really are a continuation. So there were material investments in our sales team in 2024. So this is completing both that group and focusing on particular vertices and then expanding our marketing. So whether it be for Fuel iX or particular platforms or products, really expanding that. So it will be throughout the year, but with our ops transformation, more balanced to the beginning of the year.

所以，我可以談談時間，然後傑森看看你是否可以補充。因此，Cassie，就銷售和行銷投資的時間表而言，以及就我們如何進行這些投資而言，我們的營運轉型在上半年比在下半年更重要。我將回答你的問題，這些是否與我們之前所做的事情類似，所以它們實際上是一種延續。因此，我們在 2024 年對銷售團隊進行了重大投資。因此，這既完成了該組，又專注於特定的頂點，然後擴大了我們的行銷。因此，無論是針對 Fuel iX 還是特定平台或產品，都真正擴展了這一點。所以全年都會如此，但隨著我們的營運轉型，與年初相比會更加平衡。

And then with the efficiencies again, an extension of the work that we were doing in 2024, as I had shared in '24, that timing didn't manifest quite as we expected it to. And so with more precision, we're looking at similar programs coming into 2025. It will be affecting our labor line. It'll be affecting our really -- every cost element line and our gross margin, and we do expect that to be throughout the year, but we'll pick up throughout the year because we need to make some of those investments to garner the benefits.

然後，隨著效率的再次提高，我們在 2024 年所做工作的延伸，正如我在 24 年所分享的那樣，時機並沒有像我們預期的那樣到來。因此，我們正在更精確地研究 2025 年的類似計劃。這將影響我們的勞動力線。這實際上會影響我們的每個成本要素線和毛利率，我們確實預計這種情況會持續全年，但我們會在全年回暖，因為我們需要進行一些投資才能獲得收益。

Jason, anything, you top up there?

傑森，有什麼事嗎，你在那裡儲值嗎？

Yeah, sure. When you look at some of the investments I alluded to around workforce management, for example, that's around making sure we advance our tools and capabilities and how we manage our workforce, get the most out of the workforce from an efficiency perspective, and deliver better and advanced customer experience.

是的，當然。例如，當你看到我提到的有關勞動力管理的一些投資時，你會發現，這些投資是為了確保我們改進工具和能力，改進我們如何管理勞動力，從效率的角度最大限度地發揮勞動力的作用，並提供更好、更先進的客戶體驗。

When you look at the $60 million and $65 million dollars that we're referring to, that is effectively looking at not only those tools but also what we're doing in the AI space. In AI data operations as an example or AI data solutions, there's always advanced work to do in terms of how we source clients, how we manage our expert sourcing or our crowdsourcing, the tools that we use to drive quality and productivity in that space to support the large language model development projects that we do.

當你看到我們所指的 6000 萬美元和 6500 萬美元時，實際上不僅是在考慮那些工具，而且還在考慮我們在人工智慧領域所做的事情。以人工智慧資料操作或人工智慧資料解決方案為例，在如何尋找客戶、如何管理專家採購或眾包、以及用於推動該領域品質和生產力的工具方面，我們總是有很多高級工作要做，以支援我們所做的大型語言模型開發專案。

That type of investment as well as investment in in pilots and innovation on behalf of our customers in the Fuel space, but also digital solution space. Those are other examples of investments that we make that would be part of that. Hopefully that gives you a flavor of where we're focusing our dollars as we go forward. Thanks.

這種投資以及代表我們在燃料領域的客戶對試點和創新的投資，以及數位解決方案領域的投資。這些是我們進行的投資的其他例子，它們也是其中的一部分。希望這能讓您了解我們未來的資金重點。謝謝。

Aravinda Galappatthige, Canaccord Genuity.

阿拉文達·加拉帕蒂格 (Aravinda Galappatthige)，Canaccord Genuity。

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. A couple from me. First of all, maybe for Gopi, just to go back to the guidance, so you know what was -- some of the assumptions that were in the guidance. With respect to trust and safety, when you talk about conservatism, I know that trust and safety is roughly 15% of revenues. Are you, should we assume that you are assuming a fairly meaningful decline there within that 2%, or is it just sort of a question of sort of keeping the growth expectations low? I just wanted a little bit more clarity there.

早安.感謝您回答我的問題。這是我的一些。首先，對於 Gopi 來說，也許只是回到指導，這樣你就知道指導中的一些假設是什麼。關於信任和安全，當你談到保守主義時，我知道信任和安全大約佔收入的 15%。您是否應該假設在 2% 的範圍內會出現相當明顯的下降，還是這只是一個保持低成長預期的問題？我只是想要更清楚地了解一下。

And then, secondly, on the AI data solution side, maybe just the competitive dynamics. I know that obviously any spaces that's growing the way this one is, you can see a lot of new entrants, maybe just talk to like even in Q4, but that segment, how much did it grow, whatever data you can provide in terms of even either on a full year basis or for the quarter itself, that particular segment. Thank you.

其次，在人工智慧數據解決方案方面，可能只是競爭動態。我知道，顯然任何像這樣增長的領域，你都可以看到很多新進入者，也許只是在第四季度談論，但那個細分市場增長了多少，無論你能提供什麼數據，無論是全年還是本季度的數據，那個特定的細分市場。謝謝。

Jason, do you want to me take the first.

傑森，你想讓我先走嗎？

Yeah, why don't you take the first and we can talk about the second.

是的，你為什麼不選擇第一個，然後我們可以討論第二個。

Perfect, thanks, Aravinda. So, in terms of our trust and safety and security, we have not assumed a decline overall in the sector, that this sector for us is very much on a customer by customer basis and so we do work with each customer in terms of optimizing what GOs we're working with them, what services we're providing them. So we have factored in some of the ups and downs that we will see with those customers. But in general we are not expecting a material decline.

非常好，謝謝，Aravinda。因此，就我們的信任和安全保障而言，我們並沒有假設該行業整體會出現下滑，對於我們來說，這個行業很大程度上是以客戶為基礎的，因此我們確實與每個客戶合作，優化我們與他們合作的 GO，以及我們為他們提供的服務。因此，我們已經考慮到了這些客戶將會遇到的一些起伏。但總體而言，我們預計不會出現實質的下降。

Part of what we see in this sector is while there is AI that is able to do some of the, let's say content moderation that we would have done previously with humans, there's also an incredible increase in the amount, the volume of work that is to be done. So the complexity of the work that we do, the increase in volume largely is offsetting currently the portion that AI is taking over. Again will very much be on a customer by customer basis as we look at the segment.

我們在這個領域看到的是，雖然人工智慧能夠完成一些以前需要人類完成的工作，例如內容審核，但需要完成的工作量也出現了驚人的成長。因此，我們所做工作的複雜性和數量的增加在很大程度上抵消了目前人工智慧所接管的部分。當我們觀察這個細分市場時，我們將再次以每個客戶為基礎。

Yeah, maybe I'll just top up on that. Obviously this segment from a client concentration perspective can be very lumpy as well. So to Gopi's point, there's a lot of upside and downside in this segment. So I think we expect it to be pretty frothy as we go forward. On the AI data solution side in terms of the competitiveness in this space, as you mentioned, there's a lot of investment and we've seen a lot of news articles and we've heard from our clients in terms of the competitive intensity, but also just the pace and intensity of this pursuit.

是的，也許我會補充這一點。顯然，從客戶集中度的角度來看，這部分也可能非常不均勻。所以正如 Gopi 所說，這個領域有很多優點和缺點。因此我認為我們預計未來會出現相當多的泡沫。就人工智慧數據解決方案領域的競爭力而言，正如您所說，有很多投資，我們已經看到很多新聞文章，也從客戶那裡聽到了競爭強度，以及這種追求的速度和強度。

So it's something right now where I think it's a great -- there's a lot of great opportunity. I think the pie is growing quicker than necessarily the competitors entering the market. But the thirst for quality, the intensity and pace of the projects and how quickly they materialize and how fast they need to ramp, will be key success factors as we compete in this space.

所以我認為現在這是一個偉大的事情——有很多很好的機會。我認為市場規模的成長速度必然快於競爭對手進入市場的速度。但是，對品質的渴望、專案的強度和速度、以及它們實現的速度和它們需要提升的速度，將是我們在這個領域競爭時的關鍵成功因素。

And we've seen some very exciting projects that have come down in this space. I'll give you 3 as an example, right? We, in the science, technology, engineering, and math, data set space, we've been participating in the development of data set to enhance STEM-related reasoning for LLMs. Building Q&A pairs across STEM disciplines. We've seen large scale VQA data set work that involves over 300 makers and reviewers, including subject matter experts in health, medicine, science, business, and engineering, math reasoning and instruct projects.

我們已經看到這個領域出現了一些非常令人興奮的項目。我給你舉 3 個例子，對嗎？在科學、技術、工程和數學資料集領域，我們一直參與資料集的開發，以增強法學碩士 (LLM) 的 STEM 相關推理能力。建立跨 STEM 學科的問答對。我們已經看到大規模的 VQA 資料集工作涉及 300 多名製作者和審查者，包括健康、醫學、科學、商業和工程、數學推理和指導專案領域的主題專家。

So enhancing LLM's reasoning and structural capabilities through structured data collection and instruction fine tuning. Thousands of prompts and responses that have to be managed and transacted, and we're utilizing trusted contributors and expert validation there. Over 300 specialists that are focused on mathematics as another example. And these projects have potential of being anywhere from -- sometimes they are trial projects that $100,000 and sometimes they have the potential of contract values in the tens of millions of dollars.

因此，透過結構化資料收集和指令微調來增強 LLM 的推理和結構能力。數以千計的提示和回應需要管理和處理，我們正在利用值得信賴的貢獻者和專家驗證。再例如，超過 300 位專注於數學的專家。這些項目的價值可能不等——有時是 10 萬美元的試驗項目，有時則可能達到數千萬美元的合約價值。

So it's a very exciting space. It's incredibly intense in terms of the -- when these projects occur, we sometimes have a week to 2 weeks to prepare and it requires a lot of nimbleness and agility on our part. But we feel as though these are areas that we can progress and show strong growth in. And that growth we're hoping will offset some of the headwinds we see in the Como space as one good example. Hopefully that gives you a flavor of that space a bit more.

這是一個非常令人興奮的領域。這是非常緊張的——當這些專案開始時，我們有時需要一周到兩週的時間來準備，這需要我們有很大的靈活性和敏捷性。但我們覺得這些是我們可以進步並展現強勁成長的領域。我們希望這種成長能夠抵消我們在科莫地區看到的一些阻力，就是一個很好的例子。希望這能讓您更了解那個空間。

Awesome. Thank you. I'll pass the line.

驚人的。謝謝。我會通過這條線。

Divya Goyal, Scotiabank.

豐業銀行的 Divya Goyal。

Good morning everyone. Jason, I wanted to get a little bit more color on the customer experience segment here at TELUS Digital. In this press release in over the past few minutes here we've been discussing about the CX sector, and I noticed you have also guided for targeted improvement plans across the call center or the CX customer experience sector.

大家早安。傑森，我想進一步了解 TELUS Digital 的客戶體驗部分。在過去幾分鐘的新聞稿中，我們一直在討論 CX 領域，我注意到您也針對呼叫中心或 CX 客戶體驗領域制定了有針對性的改進計劃。

Could you talk to us a little bit more or elaborate on the broader customer experience or customer engagement sentiment across the global enterprises and your clients that you're seeing and the reasons for these targeted improvement plans here. Thank you.

您能否與我們多談談或詳細說明您所看到的全球企業和客戶的更廣泛的客戶體驗或客戶參與情緒，以及這些有針對性的改進計劃的原因。謝謝。

Sure, as I mentioned, we've seen especially in the fourth quarter and with the implementation of a, probably a renewed or I would call it, revitalized focus on customer experience, great improvement, on especially our top 55 clients but even more broadly. And when we're talking about customer experience, it's everything from the subtleties of making sure that we are engaging customers in the way and the format that our clients are looking for. We're demonstrating empathy and we are getting first call resolution and efficient handle times when it comes to the treatment of customers.

當然，正如我所提到的，我們尤其在第四季度看到了這一點，並且隨著實施可能重新或我稱之為重新關注客戶體驗，我們取得了巨大的進步，特別是對我們的前 55 名客戶，但範圍更廣泛。當我們談論客戶體驗時，它涵蓋了從細微之處到確保我們以客戶所尋求的方式和形式吸引客戶的一切。在對待客戶方面，我們表現出同理心，我們獲得了第一次呼叫解決和高效的處理時間。

I think the other thing that we're seeing is there's a heightened expectation as well as a pronounced opportunity to bring in technology capabilities into customer experience that help improve it, whether it's more effective ways for customers to deal with some of the more simpler tasks or questions, technical support or care that they need, that's where Fuel comes in and it's been a brilliant tool in that regard.

我認為我們看到的另一件事是，人們的期望值越來越高，同時也存在著明顯的機會將技術能力引入客戶體驗，以幫助改善客戶體驗，無論是讓客戶以更有效的方式處理一些更簡單的任務或問題，還是他們所需的技術支援或護理，這就是 Fuel 的用武之地，它在這方面是一個非常出色的工具。

Or whether it's making sure that we have the right scheduling time of day, peak demand interval matching that's required for these clients. So it's really taking what I think has been a hallmark of our organization for many years, which is delivering great customer experience in the language, culture, timeliness that our clients are looking for and then going beyond that and saying, okay, how do we deploy new method, new process, new technology that is available today and enhance those experience.

或是否確保我們有正確的調度時間，以及這些客戶所需的尖峰需求間隔匹配。因此，我認為它確實體現了我們公司多年來的特色，即在客戶所尋求的語言、文化和及時性方面提供出色的客戶體驗，然後超越這一點，並問自己，好吧，我們如何部署新方法、新流程、新技術，並增強這些體驗。

So in general I think our clients are very happy and satisfied with us. I think we've had pockets of where we needed to revitalize and modernize how we deliver on behalf of our clients and to do that proactively without them asking. And then certainly, reinvigorating our thirst to be number one in the competitive set, right, so making sure that we're not satisfied with being in the top 3 or top 4, but actually advancing and using the full breadth of our culture, our capabilities, and our technology to get that number 1 position. So that's what I've been referencing as we go through.

所以總的來說，我認為我們的客戶對我們非常高興和滿意。我認為，我們需要在某些方面重振和現代化我們為客戶提供服務的方式，並在客戶沒有要求的情況下主動做到這一點。當然，我們要重新激發在競爭中成為第一的渴望，對吧，所以要確保我們不會滿足於前三名或前四名，而是要真正推進並充分利用我們的文化、我們的能力和技術來獲得第一的位置。這就是我們在討論過程中一直參考的內容。

That's helpful. And then, just one more follow up here. You talked about two large wins in the retail customers in America. Could you talk to us whether those wins were taking market share from one of the existing competitors or are these net new businesses from the retailers and along with that I'll also try to get some color on any potential impact of this tariff discussion on TELUS Digital business given your clients might get impacted despite TI not getting directly impacted, and that'll be all for me. Thank you.

這很有幫助。然後，這裡再跟進一下。您談到了美國零售客戶的兩大勝利。您能否告訴我們，這些勝利是從現有競爭對手手中奪取的市場份額，還是從零售商獲得的淨新業務？此外，我還將嘗試了解此次關稅討論對 TELUS Digital 業務的潛在影響，因為儘管 TI 沒有受到直接影響，但您的客戶可能會受到影響，我的回答就這些了。謝謝。

Okay, on the retailers, I mean, obviously they don't necessarily always share with us where they demand and extra work is coming from. Sometimes it's new and in this case, some of the work is just net new opportunity for them and for us, so I won't necessarily speak to whether it pulls demand from a particular client or competitor.

好的，對於零售商來說，我的意思是，顯然他們不一定總是與我們分享他們的需求和額外工作來自哪裡。有時它是新的，在這種情況下，一些工作對他們和我們來說只是新的機遇，所以我不一定會談論它是否會吸引特定客戶或競爭對手的需求。

On the tariff side, yes, so we don't really provide US services to the US from Canada, so it's less of an impact on us there. Difficult to speak to what it will do to our clients. Our clients are so varied in so many industries of different sizes. It's certainly -- we're not, we don't play a very large role in terms of the impacts on tariffs and how those get implemented at this point in their current form.

從關稅方面來說，是的，我們實際上並沒有從加拿大向美國提供美國服務，所以這對我們的影響較小。很難說這會對我們的客戶產生什麼影響。我們的客戶來自不同行業，規模各異。確實如此——就關稅的影響以及目前如何實施關稅而言，我們並沒有發揮很大的作用。

So it's difficult to say on how it will impact demand, but certainly what we've seen is, we serve customers globally from a multitude of locations and regions, certainly over over 32 countries around the world. So for the most part I think we're relatively well insulated at this point.

因此很難說它將如何影響需求，但可以肯定的是，我們為全球眾多地點和地區的客戶提供服務，服務範圍遍布全球 32 個國家。因此，我認為就目前情況而言，我們在很大程度上已經得到了相對良好的保護。

Maggie Nolan, William Blair.

瑪吉諾蘭、威廉布萊爾。

Thank you. Based on how you're structuring the cost programs and thinking about the investments, do you intend to continue this into 2026, or is the intention to largely complete these efforts in 2025 and drive margins back up from there?

謝謝。根據您建立成本計劃和考慮投資的方式，您是否打算將此持續到 2026 年，還是打算在 2025 年基本完成這些工作並從那時開始提高利潤率？

We intend to continue always looking at cost efficiency and marginal improvement opportunities, that is going to be a very much a natural habit and posture of our organization. And we will continue to build a new set of programs for 2026 as well. The quantum of that and the magnitude of that is, at this point would be premature to speak to speak to, but you can certainly expect that that will be our posture always to improve margin, to improve cost efficiency, to look at our indirect costs and always own and refine those.

我們打算繼續專注於成本效率和邊際改善機會，這將成為我們組織非常自然的習慣和姿態。我們也將繼續為2026年制定一套新的計畫。現在談論其數量和程度還為時過早，但你當然可以預料，我們的立場始終是提高利潤率，提高成本效率，關注我們的間接成本，並始終擁有和改進這些成本。

And to leverage some of the technology capabilities that we have and to continue to leverage some of the process innovation that we incubate within the broader TELUS organization or parent company. We have an amazing sandbox there that drives very hard on doing the same within their organization, and we bring that same thirst and posture to TELUS digital as well.

並利用我們擁有的一些技術能力，並繼續利用我們在更廣泛的 TELUS 組織或母公司內孵化的一些流程創新。我們有一個令人驚嘆的沙盒，可以大力推動他們在組織內做同樣的事情，我們也將同樣的渴望和姿態帶到了 TELUS digital 中。

Thank you. And on the early strong signs of demand you noted, particularly for Digital, it sounded like -- can you elaborate on what some of those signs are, if there's any pattern in terms of clients, and markets of verticals, geography, solutions, etc. Thank you.

謝謝。關於您提到的早期強勁需求跡象，特別是數位需求，您能否詳細說明這些跡像是什麼，以及在客戶、垂直市場、地理、解決方案等方面是否存在任何模式？謝謝。

Yeah, so maybe I'll jump in on the digital solution side. I think we're seeing it primarily in North America, but also to some extent in Europe. And across industries, I think financial services has always been an important part of our portfolio that's coming back quite strongly. Healthcare continues to grow with investments. Everything related to hospitality, including quick serve restaurants is showing a lot of progress.

是的，所以也許我會加入數位解決方案方面。我認為我們主要在北美看到這種情況，但在歐洲也看到某種程度的這種情況。在各個行業中，我認為金融服務一直是我們投資組合的重要組成部分，並且正在強勁復甦。隨著投資的增加，醫療保健產業持續成長。與酒店業相關的一切，包括快餐店，都取得了巨大的進步。

I think that at some point in retrospect, there may have been a pull forward of spend that happened as part of COVID and then a brief pause and now everyone's coming back and I think what's driving that, the catalyst is AI, is that most of their customer relationship via the app, via bots, etc. It has to be transitioned to be AI and voice driven, so I think we're seeing over, and expect us to continue into '26 and '27, a meaningful reinvestment in digital experiences.

我認為，回想起來，在新冠疫情期間，支出可能有所提前，然後短暫滯滯，現在大家都回來了，我認為推動這一趨勢的催化劑是人工智慧，他們的大部分客戶關係都是透過應用程式、機器人等建立的。它必須轉變為人工智慧和語音驅動，所以我認為我們已經看到了，並預計我們將在 2026 年和 2027 年繼續對數位體驗進行有意義的再投資。

Suthan Sukumar, Stifel.

蘇坦·蘇庫馬爾（Suthan Sukumar），Stifel。

Good morning and thank you for taking my questions. I wanted to touch on the new business pipeline first. What would you highlight as being some of the surprising areas of strength and what would you call it as some of the pockets where you're seeing demand weakness persist?

早上好，感謝您回答我的問題。我想先談談新的業務管道。您認為哪些領域表現令人驚訝？您認為哪些領域需求持續疲軟？

Sure, maybe I'll touch on a few and then I'll pass it over to Tobias, to talk about this funnel. The strength aspects on the digital solution side and Tobias will speak to these in a moment. That's been really nice to see. It's nice to see a bit of a rebound in that after a really tough 2024. As I've been highlighting all along, AI data operations and data solutions and the LLM space, both training and development in that space, very exciting for us and certainly an area that we want to continue to scale and invest in.

當然，也許我會談一些，然後我會把它交給托比亞斯，來談論這個漏斗。數位解決方案方面的優勢，Tobias 稍後會談到這些。看到這個真是太好了。在經歷了非常艱難的 2024 年之後，很高興看到情況有所反彈。正如我一直強調的那樣，人工智慧資料操作和資料解決方案以及法學碩士領域（包括該領域的培訓和開發）對我們來說都非常令人興奮，當然也是我們希望繼續擴大規模和投資的領域。

In terms of headwinds, I think, it's reasonable to expect, and I think the entire analyst community is very well versed in this to see that content moderation is changing. Trust, safety and security more broadly, I think are some good opportunities because we do have a lot of clients that continue to need content moderation, but also they are looking at fraud prevention and detection and other capabilities that we bring to bear. So that's been fantastic.

就不利因素而言，我認為，這是可以合理預期的，而且我認為整個分析師社群都非常清楚這一點，看到內容審核正在改變。更廣泛地說，我認為信任、安全和保障是一些很好的機遇，因為我們確實有很多客戶繼續需要內容審核，但他們也在關注我們所提供的詐欺預防和偵測等功能。這真是太棒了。

And then outside of just service-based opportunities, I think there's geographic-based opportunities for us to optimize our geographic presence, both exiting areas that we think of either run their course or that both ourselves and our partners feel are less relevant or can be substituted in other areas more optimally.

除了基於服務的機會之外，我認為還有基於地理的機會可以讓我們優化我們的地理存在，包括我們認為已經走到盡頭的現有區域，或者我們自己和我們的合作夥伴都認為不太相關或可以在其他區域更優地替代的現有區域。

But also, as I spoke about Africa and India, there's some fantastic geographic expansion opportunities to really leverage the growth and momentum that we're seeing in those countries. So that's that's also a place that we're going to be concentrating and investing on and continuing to look more broadly, even beyond the 32 countries we have today, being very opportunistic on where we can expand. Latin America continues to be a place of growth that we need to consider.

但同時，正如我談到非洲和印度時所說，那裡有一些極好的地理擴張機會，可以真正利用我們在這些國家看到的成長和動力。所以這也是我們要集中精力、進行投資的地方，我們會繼續放眼更廣闊的範圍，甚至超越我們目前的 32 個國家，尋找可以擴張的地方。拉丁美洲仍然是我們需要考慮的成長地區。

Asia is another place that, another large geographic region where there's opportunity. So we'll continue to be very opportunistic as we move forward in this regard. Tobias, maybe you want to touch on the digital.

亞洲是另一個充滿機會的廣闊地理區域。因此，我們將繼續抓住機遇，並繼續推進這項進程。托比亞斯，也許你想談談數字。

Sure. I'll just top up a little bit is, on the digital solution side, as I mentioned where the demand is coming from. I would say that the expectation of clients is still that they want to optimize their costs, right? This is different than '21, '22 where it was the market was a little less cost conscious and more outcomes conscious. Now it's a balance of the two.

當然。我只想補充一點，在數位解決方案方面，正如我所提到的需求來自哪裡。我想說客戶的期望仍然是他們想要優化成本，對嗎？這與 21、22 年的情況不同，那時的市場對成本的意識稍弱，而對結果的意識更強。現在，兩者之間達到了平衡。

And so in terms of delivering great engineering and software products, you kind of have two options. You have to automate using AI, a lot of the services you're providing to clients, and you have to geographically optimize, which is something we're focused on both of those with Fuel being a prime tool for automation.

因此，在提供優秀的工程和軟體產品方面，您有兩種選擇。您必須使用人工智慧來實現自動化，您向客戶提供的許多服務，並且必須在地理上進行最佳化，這是我們關注的重點，而 Fuel 是實現自動化的主要工具。

But on the geographic optimization, we recently announced our partnership with Brazil. There is a growing demand for near shore, especially on AI consulting. Given the cost that clients have with North American talent, and we continue to rapidly expand our Central American and our Indian capabilities to provide our clients with a global footprint in terms of software design and development. So I think that trend, it's a balance of how you put those assets together for any given client.

但在地理優化方面，我們最近宣布了與巴西的合作關係。對近岸的需求日益增長，尤其是人工智慧諮詢方面。考慮到客戶在北美人才方面的成本，我們將繼續迅速擴大我們在中美洲和印度的能力，為我們的客戶提供軟體設計和開發的全球影響力。所以我認為這種趨勢就是如何為任何特定客戶整合這些資產的平衡。

But with that, Jason, I'll hand it back to you to bring us home.

但是，傑森，我會把帶我們回家的任務交給你。

Okay, thank you. Before we conclude, I'd like to extend a warm welcome to Andrea Clayton, who joined TELUS Digital as our new Chief Human Resources Officer. Andrea brings an impressive 25 years of HR experience to our team. Her extensive background in HR strategy and complex strategic initiatives across various Fortune 500 companies will be invaluable as we continue to grow and evolve.

好的，謝謝。在我們結束之前，我想對加入 TELUS Digital 擔任新任首席人力資源長的 Andrea Clayton 表示熱烈的歡迎。Andrea 為我們的團隊帶來了令人印象深刻的 25 年人力資源經驗。她在各財富 500 強公司的人力資源戰略和複雜戰略計劃方面的豐富背景對於我們繼續成長和發展將非常寶貴。

As we move forward, I want to reaffirm our unwavering commitment to delivering on the expectations we've set. Our team remains focused on executing our strategy and driving our return to growth. We look forward to sharing more updates on our progress during our next quarterly investor call in May. Thank you all for your continued engagement and have a great day.

在我們前進的過程中，我想重申我們堅定不移地致力於實現我們設定的期望。我們的團隊將繼續專注於執行我們的策略並推動我們恢復成長。我們期待在 5 月的下一次季度投資者電話會議上分享更多有關我們進展的最新資訊。感謝大家一直以來的參與，祝福大家有個愉快的一天。

This concludes the TELUS Digital's Q4 2024 investor call. Thank you for your participation. Have a nice day.

TELUS Digital 2024 年第四季投資者電話會議到此結束。感謝您的參與。祝你今天過得愉快。