Thryv Holdings Inc (THRY) 2023 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good day and welcome to the Thrive Holdings, Inc. fourth quarter and full year 2023 earnings call. (Operator Instructions) I would like to advise all participants that this call is being recorded Thank you. I'd now like to welcome Cameron Lessard, Head of IR to begin the conference. Cameron, over to you.

美好的一天，歡迎參加 Thrive Holdings, Inc. 第四季和 2023 年全年財報電話會議。（操作員指示）我謹通知所有參與者，本次通話正在錄音，謝謝。現在我歡迎 IR 主管 Cameron Lessard 開始會議。卡梅倫，交給你了。

Thank you, operator. Hello and good day to everyone, and welcome to Thrive Fourth Quarter 2023 earnings conference call. On the call today are Joe Walsh, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Paul Rouse, Chief Financial Officer; and Grant Freeman, President. A copy of our earnings press release and investor presentation can be found on our website at DR.com or in the Investor Section at investor dot DR.com. Please acknowledge comments made on today's call and responses to your questions may contain forward-looking statements about the operations and future results of the Company.

謝謝你，接線生。大家好，美好的一天，歡迎參加 Thrive 2023 年第四季財報電話會議。今天參加電話會議的是董事長兼執行長喬‧沃爾許 (Joe Walsh)；保羅‧勞斯 (Paul Rouse)，財務長；和總統格蘭特·弗里曼。我們的收益新聞稿和投資者簡報的副本可以在我們的網站 DR.com 或投資者網 DR.com 的投資者部分找到。請確認在今天的電話會議中發表的評論以及對您問題的答复可能包含有關公司運營和未來業績的前瞻性陳述。

These statements are subject to the risks and uncertainties described in the Company's earnings release and other filings with the SEC. Thrive has no obligation to update the information presented on the conference call.

這些聲明受到公司收益報告和向 SEC 提交的其他文件中所述的風險和不確定性的影響。Thrive 沒有義務更新電話會議中提供的資訊。

Finally, our speakers will reference certain non-GAAP financial measures, which we believe will provide useful information for investors. Reconciliation of those measures to GAAP will be posted on our website.

最後，我們的演講者將提到某些非公認會計準則財務指標，我們相信這些指標將為投資者提供有用的信息。這些措施與公認會計準則的調整將發佈在我們的網站上。

With that introduction, I would like to turn the call over to Chairman and CEO, Joe Walsh.

介紹完畢後，我想將電話轉給董事長兼執行長喬‧沃爾許 (Joe Walsh)。

Good morning, Cameron, and thank you all for joining us on the call today to discuss our fourth quarter and full year results 2023 was a stellar year for thrive, and we capped it off with an incredible fourth quarter that once again exceeded our expectations.

早安，卡梅倫，感謝大家今天參加我們的電話會議，討論我們的第四季度和全年業績。2023 年是蓬勃發展的輝煌一年，我們以令人難以置信的第四季度再次超出了我們的預期為這一年畫下句點。

For the full year 2023, we delivered SaaS revenue of $264 million, up 22% year over year, with SaaS adjusted EBITDA of $12 million, which represents an adjusted EBITDA margin of 5% because when we started the year, we were projecting somewhere around breakeven for our SaaS business. We've more than delivered on that objective. And for the quarter, we're really happy to announce two notable improvements in our SaaS metrics that adjusted gross margins improved to 70% in the fourth quarter.

2023 年全年，我們的 SaaS 營收為 2.64 億美元，年增 22%，SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 為 1,200 萬美元，這意味著調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 5%，因為年初時我們預計約為我們的SaaS業務實現損益平衡。我們已經遠遠超越了這個目標。對於本季度，我們非常高興地宣布 SaaS 指標有兩項顯著改進，調整後的毛利率在第四季度提高到 70%。

\Our gross margins have been trending towards the 75% that we guided in our long term guidance. And it's really a function of us having built out our platform. We've got more to go, but we're able to sell multiple centers out of existing customers. And so you end up with a lot better gross margins. So that's a trend that we think we'll see continuing.

\我們的毛利率一直朝著我們長期指導中指導的75% 發展。這實際上是我們建構平台的一個功能。我們還有更多工作要做，但我們能夠向現有客戶出售多個中心。所以你最終會獲得更好的毛利率。因此，我們認為這種趨勢將會持續下去。

Next stat I wanted to mention was net dollar retention, we came in at 96% for the fourth quarter. And again, that has to do with us selling additional centers to existing customers who previously only had one center that just wasn't a lot else to sell them.

我想提到的下一個統計數據是淨美元留存率，第四季我們的留存率為 96%。再說一遍，這與我們向現有客戶出售額外的中心有關，這些客戶以前只有一個中心，而且沒有太多其他中心可以出售。

We have some small add-ons, but now that we're building out more center with another one coming later this year, we expect net dollar retention to continue trending toward that 100% that we've given our long-term guidance.

我們有一些小的附加項目，但現在我們正在建造更多的中心，今年晚些時候將建成另一個中心，我們預計淨美元保留率將繼續朝著我們給出的長期指導的 100% 發展。

We generated $148 million of cash from operations and free cash flow of $115 million, which was very similar to the prior year, even after accounting for the print revenue recognition dynamic in the third quarter and our acquisition of yellow New Zealand, which occurred in the second quarter. This allowed us to retire a significant amount of debt in 2023.

我們從營運中產生了1.48 億美元的現金，自由現金流為1.15 億美元，這與上一年非常相似，即使考慮了第三季度的印刷收入確認動態以及我們對Yellow New Zealand 的收購（收購發生在2017 年）。第二季。這使我們能夠在 2023 年償還大量債務。

Later in this call, Paul will delve into our impressive fourth-quarter and full-year results. However, I wish to direct everyone's attention to the press release we issued alongside our earnings results this morning for those familiar with our company on this call, you are well aware of our ongoing multiyear transformation. We're shifting from a massive marketing services entity, selling both digital and print products to small medium-sized businesses to a rapidly expanding and innovative SaaS powerhouse catering to the same client base.

稍後在本次電話會議中，保羅將深入探討我們令人印象深刻的第四季和全年業績。然而，我希望大家能關注我們今天早上發布的新聞稿以及我們的盈利結果，對於那些在這次電話會議上熟悉我們公司的人來說，你們很清楚我們正在進行的多年轉型。我們正在從向中小型企業銷售數位和印刷產品的大型行銷服務實體轉變為面向同一客戶群的快速擴張和創新的 SaaS 巨頭。

Our unparalleled advantage lies in the strategic selling of our SaaS products directly into the client base within our marketing services business. We refer to it as the zoo with our recent product launches, notably marketing center and command center. I'm excited to share today that we're seeing an acceleration of clients coming from Brazil into the SaaS platform as we journey along the digital transformation. And we're excited to share an update on our ongoing initiative to transition marketing services clients to the powerhouse drive platform.

我們無與倫比的優勢在於我們的 SaaS 產品直接向行銷服務業務的客戶群進行策略性銷售。我們將其稱為我們最近發布的產品的動物園，特別是行銷中心和指揮中心。今天我很高興與大家分享，隨著我們數位轉型的進程，我們看到來自巴西的客戶加速進入 SaaS 平台。我們很高興分享我們正在進行的將行銷服務客戶過渡到強大驅動平台的計劃的最新資訊。

This isn't a sudden shift or anything new, but the next natural step and a decade-long commitment to equipping small businesses with the best tools for success. This will be a significant growth lever for the company in 2024. And I'm delighted to welcome our President, Grant Freeman, to provide a more in-depth commentary on the transformative process.

這並不是突然的轉變或任何新的東西，而是下一個自然步驟，也是長達十年的承諾，為小型企業提供成功的最佳工具。這將成為該公司 2024 年的重要成長槓桿。我很高興歡迎我們的總統格蘭特·弗里曼對變革進程提供更深入的評論。

Thanks Joe, and good morning, everyone. As Joe mentioned earlier, we issued a press release this morning detailing our legacy client upgrade plans for 2020 for since you may not have had a chance to review it yet. I'll provide a brief overview and address any questions during the Q&A portion to follow with our drive platform, including Business Center and the recent introduction of marketing center and command center.

謝謝喬，大家早安。正如 Joe 之前提到的，我們今天早上發布了一份新聞稿，詳細介紹了 2020 年的舊版客戶端升級計劃，因為您可能還沒有機會查看它。我將在問答環節中對我們的驅動平台進行簡要概述並解答任何問題，包括業務中心以及最近推出的行銷中心和指揮中心。

We are aligned with our vision for growth in the SaaS business by strategically expanding our platform into areas that complement our existing services. We're capitalizing on product adjacency opportunities. Specifically, our new offerings seamlessly integrate with our legacy products into the SaaS platform, creating a natural progression for our clients.

我們透過策略性地將我們的平台擴展到補充我們現有服務的領域來實現 SaaS 業務成長的願景。我們正在利用產品鄰近機會。具體來說，我們的新產品與我們的舊產品無縫整合到 SaaS 平台中，為我們的客戶創造一個自然的進步。

As a result, we anticipate a slight acceleration in the decline of billings from marketing services as clients naturally transition to the SaaS platform attracted by the enhanced features and capabilities that it provides, you know, for eight years we've been actively engaging with our marketing services clients to encourage them to modernize and adopt our award-winning drive platform as an upgrade to their existing services drive will continue to upgrade our clients to our platform as we execute our planned migration away from legacy digital products and services.

因此，我們預計，隨著客戶自然過渡到SaaS 平台，並被其提供的增強特性和功能所吸引，我們預計行銷服務的帳單會略有加速下降，您知道，八年來，我們一直在積極與我們的客戶合作。行銷服務客戶鼓勵他們現代化並採用我們屢獲殊榮的驅動平台作為其現有服務的升級，隨著我們執行計劃從傳統數位產品和服務遷移，驅動器將繼續將我們的客戶升級到我們的平台。

We've been converting many of our legacy customers to Business Center, a software product designed to help SMBs, manage and organize the business, generate invoices, run Social Campaigns, manage listings and estimates and many, many more important elements of running their business. Many of our business center clients opt to keep the marketing services products because they consistently rely on them to generate low cost, high converting business leads, which they find extremely valuable.

我們已經將許多傳統客戶轉變為 Business Center，這是一款軟體產品，旨在幫助中小型企業管理和組織業務、產生發票、開展社交活動、管理清單和估算以及營運業務的許多其他重要元素。我們的許多商務中心客戶選擇保留行銷服務產品，因為他們始終依賴這些產品來產生低成本、高轉換率的業務線索，他們認為這非常有價值。

This underscores the positive interconnection between SaaS and marketing services usage among our clients. Our dedication to client success isn't limited to introducing new offerings like marketing center, Command, center, drive pay, et cetera. It's a move that unlocks NDR expansion.

這強調了 SaaS 和我們客戶的行銷服務使用之間的積極聯繫。我們對客戶成功的奉獻不僅限於推出行銷中心、指揮中心、駕駛付費等新產品。這項舉措開啟了 NDR 擴張。

These offerings are not cosmetic enhancements they serve as catalysts for growth by simplifying client upgrades and providing enhanced value propositions. We've established a virtuous cycle clients gain access to expanded solutions, fueling their success while also generating predictable recurring revenue streams. For us, this mutual benefit isn't a one-time thing. It's a symbiotic relationship that lays the groundwork for sustained growth and partnerships. As small businesses drive and grow, they naturally use more of our platform capabilities.

這些產品並不是表面上的增強，而是透過簡化客戶升級和提供增強的價值主張來促進成長。我們已經建立了一個良性循環，客戶可以獲得擴展的解決方案，推動他們的成功，同時也產生可預測的經常性收入流。對我們來說，這種互惠互利並不是一次性的事。這是一種共生關係，為持續成長和夥伴關係奠定了基礎。隨著小型企業的發展和發展，他們自然會更多地使用我們的平台功能。

Now to support our growth, we will streamline operations, reduce complexity and create efficiencies around our legacy digital systems. We've been upgrading our long-standing clients, our award-winning platform at no additional cost to them. In some instances, we have also observed clients who have increased their spend in the platform were eager for them to explore and utilize and grow into various modules of the platform to empower their businesses.

現在，為了支持我們的發展，我們將圍繞我們的傳統數位系統簡化營運、降低複雜性並提高效率。我們一直在升級我們的長期客戶和我們屢獲殊榮的平台，而無需向他們收取額外費用。在某些情況下，我們還觀察到增加了平台支出的客戶渴望探索和利用並發展到平台的各個模組以增強其業務能力。

While many of our legacy digital products deliver value, they simply aren't receiving investment or further development. We are investing in our platform, our existing centers and have plans for new rollouts in 2024 and beyond. By upgrading clients to our Thrive platform.

雖然我們的許多傳統數位產品都提供了價值，但它們根本沒有獲得投資或進一步開發。我們正在投資我們的平台和現有中心，並計劃在 2024 年及以後推出新的中心。透過將客戶升級到我們的 Thrive 平台。

We provide the same value they currently receive, plus numerous additional features to help them solve more problems today while also offering the opportunity to address future challenges through the addition of new centers.

我們提供與他們目前獲得的相同的價值，以及許多附加功能，以幫助他們解決當今的更多問題，同時也提供透過增加新中心來應對未來挑戰的機會。

Our marketing services revenue is declining every year in the range of 20%. We are being proactive in retaining clients for the long term by offering them a viable product, a software platform that prepares them for the future, upgrading them to our platform can address their current and future needs.

我們的行銷服務收入每年下降 20%。我們積極主動地長期留住客戶，為他們提供可行的產品、為未來做好準備的軟體平台，將他們升級到我們的平台可以滿足他們當前和未來的需求。

Every client being upgraded also receives our unique command center, which helps them tackle the universal problem faced by SMBs, which is effective and efficient communication with customers with prospects and with their internal team members In sum, our client upgrade plans for 2024 underscore our commitment to growth in the SaaS business with the introduction of the marketing center and command center. We're not just evolving.

每個正在升級的客戶還會收到我們獨特的指揮中心，這可以幫助他們解決中小型企業面臨的普遍問題，即與潛在客戶及其內部團隊成員進行有效且高效的溝通總之，我們的2024 年客戶升級計劃強調了我們的承諾透過行銷中心和指揮中心的引入，促進SaaS業務的成長。我們不僅僅是在進化。

We're revolutionizing our approach seamlessly integrating new offerings to enhance client experiences and drive sustained success. In addition, we're excited about the role of DR command center as a freemium offering and what new opportunity it provides by offering commencement of the businesses and developing the usage of their free center.

我們正在徹底改變我們的方法，無縫整合新產品，以增強客戶體驗並推動持續成功。此外，我們對 DR 指揮中心作為免費增值產品的作用以及它透過提供業務啟動和開發免費中心的使用而提供的新機會感到興奮。

We're building a blue ocean of freemium users who are benefiting from our platform. This allows the Company to target those premium users who begin to activate and become hand raisers, allowing the company to offer these users paid centers to solve additional problems on our drive platform.

我們正在打造一個免費增值用戶的藍海，他們可以從我們的平台中受益。這使得公司能夠瞄準那些開始啟動並成為舉手者的高級用戶，從而使公司能夠為這些用戶提供付費中心來解決我們驅動平台上的其他問題。

So with that, I'll now turn it over to our CFO, Paul Rouse, to discuss our fourth quarter and full year financial results. Paul?

因此，現在我將把它交給我們的財務長 Paul Rouse，討論我們第四季和全年的財務表現。保羅？

Thanks, Grant. As a reminder to listeners, we are going to focus on two segments SaaS and marketing services, which includes results for both domestic and international operations. Additional detail between domestic and international for each segment can be found in the appendix section of our investor presentation.

謝謝，格蘭特。提醒聽眾，我們將重點放在 SaaS 和行銷服務兩個部分，其中包括國內和國際營運的結果。每個細分市場的國內和國際之間的更多詳細資訊可以在我們的投資者簡報的附錄部分中找到。

Let's dive into our results beginning with our SaaS segment. Saas revenue was $74 million in the fourth quarter ahead of our guidance, representing an increase of 25% year over year and 10% sequentially. Full year SaaS revenue grew 22% to$ 263.7 million.

讓我們從 SaaS 部門開始深入了解我們的結果。第四季 Saas 營收為 7,400 萬美元，高於我們的指引，年增 25%，季增 10%。全年 SaaS 營收成長 22%，達到 2.637 億美元。

Moving on to profitability improvements for the quarter, SaaS adjusted gross margin increased 690 basis points year over year and 310 basis points quarter over quarter was 69.7%. Full year SaaS adjusted gross margin expanded to 66.6%, an increase of 300 basis points from the prior year.

接下來是本季獲利能力的改善，SaaS 調整後毛利率年增 690 個基點，季增 310 個基點，為 69.7%。全年SaaS調整後毛利率擴大至66.6%，較上年增加300個基點。

A year-over-year improvement in SaaS adjusted gross margin was driven primarily by two factors, a favorable mix shift in revenue towards our higher margin subscription base centers and cost efficiencies delivered in the quarter related to fulfillment. We expect to see continued expansion in this metric moving forward, we reported notable improvement in SaaS adjusted EBITDA in 2023, which significantly exceeded our guidance to close out the year.

SaaS 調整後毛利率的年比改善主要由兩個因素推動，即營收向利潤率較高的訂閱基礎中心的有利組合轉變，以及本季與履行相關的成本效率。我們預計這項指標將繼續擴大，我們報告 2023 年 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 顯著改善，這大大超出了我們今年結束時的指導。

Fourth quarter SaaS adjusted EBITDA was $6.5 million, significantly exceeding our guidance range of $3.5 million to $4 million and resulting in SaaS adjusted EBITDA margin of 8.8%. Full year SaaS adjusted EBITDA was $12 million, resulting in a SaaS adjusted EBITDA margin of 4.6% EBITDA margin improvement was directly attributable to the aforementioned improvement in our adjusted gross margin as well as continued reliance on low cash conversion out of our marketing services installed base of customers.

第四季 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 為 650 萬美元，大大超出了我們 350 萬至 400 萬美元的指導範圍，導致 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 8.8%。全年 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 為 1200 萬美元，SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 4.6% EBITDA 利潤率改善直接歸因於上述調整後毛利率的改善以及對營銷服務安裝基礎的低現金轉換的持續依賴的客戶。

As previously discussed, we've undertaken a detailed analysis of our inbound acquisition channel, focusing on investment allocation and ideal client selection. This rigorous approach has yielded significant outcomes, not only enhancing efficiency, but also unlocking operating leverage through optimized sales costs, prioritizing high value clients with strong potential minimizes upfront sales investment. This laser focus drives sustainable growth by maximizing ROI and fostering enduring relationships with our ideal customers. This solid foundation unlocks future growth through tailored, upselling and cross-selling, ensuring mutual success by aligning with evolving needs and maximizing overall value.

如前所述，我們對入境收購管道進行了詳細分析，重點關注投資分配和理想客戶選擇。這種嚴格的方法取得了顯著的成果，不僅提高了效率，而且透過優化銷售成本釋放了營運槓桿，優先考慮具有強大潛力的高價值客戶，最大限度地減少了前期銷售投資。這種雷射聚焦透過最大限度地提高投資回報率並與我們的理想客戶建立持久的關係來推動永續成長。這一堅實的基礎透過客製化、追加銷售和交叉銷售開啟未來的成長，透過滿足不斷變化的需求和最大化整體價值來確保共同成功。

We are confident that our new command center, empowering clients with self-service and insights will serve as a future acquisition driver, attracting new customers and strengthening existing ones. Saas subscribers were approximately 66,000 at the end of the fourth quarter, an increase of 27% year over year. Test RPU edged higher sequentially to $370, a decrease of 4% year over year.

我們相信，我們的新指揮中心為客戶提供自助服務和見解，將成為未來的收購驅動力，吸引新客戶並加強現有客戶。截至第四季末，Saas 用戶數量約為 66,000 人，年增 27%。測試 RPU 環比小幅上漲至 370 美元，較去年同期下降 4%。

As previously mentioned, in the prior quarter, our adoption of a new multicenter PLG. strategy has led to new system saw subscribers signing up for lower introductory packages compared to our current average RPU, thus contributing to the year-over-year decline.

如前所述，在上一季度，我們採用了新的多中心 PLG。策略導致新系統的訂戶註冊的入門套餐低於我們目前的平均 RPU，從而導致同比下降。

Fourth core season net dollar retention was 96%, an increase of 500 basis points year over year and 400 basis points sequentially. Dan Hansen in season net dollar retention directly correlates with our upselling and cross-selling initiatives. Historically, our company primarily focuses on selling one business center However, with the introduction of additional centers and products such as marketing center command center since Friday, we are now witnessing positive outcomes of diversifying our offerings expected in the expansion of our NDR. Our intensified efforts in upselling and cross-selling are yielding these significant results.

第四核心季度淨美元保留率為 96%，年成長 500 個基點，較上季成長 400 個基點。丹漢森 (Dan Hansen) 季度淨美元保留率與我們的追加銷售和交叉銷售計劃直接相關。從歷史上看，我們公司主要專注於銷售一個商務中心。然而，隨著自周五以來推出更多中心和產品，例如行銷中心指揮中心，我們現在正在見證我們在NDR 擴展中預期的產品多元化的正面成果。我們在追加銷售和交叉銷售方面加大力度，正在取得這些顯著的成果。

Moving over to marketing services, fourth quarter revenue was $162.2 million above the midpoint of our guidance. Full year marketing services revenue was $653.2 million, also above the midpoint of our guidance. Q4 marketing services adjusted EBITDA was $45.8 million, resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 28%. Full year Marketing Services adjusted EBITDA was $175.5 million, resulting in an adjusted EBITDA margin of 27%.

轉向行銷服務，第四季營收比我們指導價值的中位數高出 1.622 億美元。全年行銷服務收入為 6.532 億美元，也高於我們指導的中位數。第四季行銷服務調整後 EBITDA 為 4,580 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 28%。全年行銷服務調整後 EBITDA 為 1.755 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 27%。

Fourth quarter marketing services billings was $149.2 million, representing a decline of 23% year over year. While billings exceeded internal models in recent quarters, this decline rate for aligns with our long-term vision. The introduction of marketing centric aligns perfectly with our vision for sustained growth in the SaaS business if there is a clear product adjacency fit. And so we would expect marketing services billings decline to increase given the natural upgrade to the SaaS platform. While it represents a higher value proposition for legacy clients leading to increased adoption and retention, it also delivers improved gross margins compared to traditional marketing services products.

第四季行銷服務營收為 1.492 億美元，年減 23%。雖然最近幾季的帳單超過了內部模型，但這種下降率符合我們的長期願景。如果有明確的產品鄰接配合，那麼以行銷為中心的引進完全符合我們 SaaS 業務持續成長的願景。因此，鑑於 SaaS 平台的自然升級，我們預計行銷服務帳單將下降。雖然它為傳統客戶提供了更高的價值主張，從而提高了採用率和保留率，但與傳統行銷服務產品相比，它也提高了毛利率。

This win-win approach ensures long term success for both clients and our SaaS business. Fourth quarter consolidated adjusted EBITDA margin was 70%. Full year consolidated adjusted gross margin was 67%. Fourth quarter consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $52.3 million, representing an adjusted EBITDA margin of 22%.

這種雙贏的方式確保了客戶和我們的 SaaS 業務的長期成功。第四季綜合調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 70%。全年綜合調整後毛利率為 67%。第四季合併調整後 EBITDA 為 5,230 萬美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 22%。

For the full year, our consolidated adjusted EBITDA was $187.5 million, which represented an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20%. And we recorded a non-cash impairment charge to goodwill in the amount of $268.8 million for $7.71 per diluted share, once again attributable to the structural decline in our marketing services business, net loss was $257.5 million or a loss of $7.39 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2023. This compares to a net loss of $50.4 million or a loss of $1.47 per diluted share for the fourth quarter of 2022.

全年，我們的綜合調整後 EBITDA 為 1.875 億美元，調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 20%。我們記錄的商譽非現金減損費用為2.688 億美元，攤薄後每股虧損7.71 美元，這再次歸因於我們行銷服務業務的結構性下滑，淨虧損為2.575 億美元，攤薄後每股虧損7.39美元。2023 年第四季。相比之下，2022 年第四季的淨虧損為 5,040 萬美元，或攤薄後每股虧損 1.47 美元。

Finally, our net debt position was $340 million at the end of the fourth quarter. Our leverage ratio was 1.8 times net debt to EBITDA, which is well below our covenant of three times the Company generated an additional $34 million in free cash flow for the fourth quarter and used $25 million to pay down our term loan. We made $120 million in term loan debt retirement in 2023, which was ahead of plan.

最後，第四季末我們的淨負債部位為 3.4 億美元。我們的槓桿率為淨債務與 EBITDA 的 1.8 倍，遠低於我們承諾的公司第四季度額外產生 3400 萬美元自由現金流並使用 2500 萬美元償還定期貸款的三倍。我們在 2023 年償還了 1.2 億美元的定期貸款債務，這超出了計劃。

Now let's discuss guidance for the first quarter and full year 2020 for the first quarter, we expect SaaS revenue in the range of $73 million to $74 million. For the full year, we expect SaaS revenue in the range of $325 million to $328 million, which implies SaaS revenue growth of 23% to 24% for the first quarter. We expect SaaS adjusted EBITDA in the range of $6 million to $7 million. For the full year, we expect SaaS adjusted EBITDA in the range of $26 million to $29 million, which implies SaaS adjusted EBITDA margin of 8% to 9% for the first quarter. We expect marketing services revenue in the range of $152 million to $155 million for the full year, we expect marketing services revenue in the range of $495 million to 505 million. For the full year. We expect Marketing Services adjusted EBITDA in the range of $132 million to $135 million.

現在讓我們討論第一季和 2020 年全年第一季的指導，我們預計 SaaS 收入將在 7,300 萬美元至 7,400 萬美元之間。我們預計全年 SaaS 營收將在 3.25 億美元至 3.28 億美元之間，這意味著第一季 SaaS 營收將成長 23% 至 24%。我們預計 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 在 600 萬美元至 700 萬美元之間。對於全年，我們預計 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 在 2,600 萬美元至 2,900 萬美元之間，這意味著第一季 SaaS 調整後 EBITDA 利潤率為 8% 至 9%。我們預計全年行銷服務收入在 1.52 億美元至 1.55 億美元之間，我們預計行銷服務收入將在 4.95 億美元至 5.05 億美元之間。全年。我們預期行銷服務調整後 EBITDA 在 1.32 億美元至 1.35 億美元之間。

I'll now turn the call back over to Joe.

我現在將把電話轉回給喬。

Thanks Paul, I'd like to comment on the net dollar retention improvements. So probably be a little bit of noise in that number as we move along because we've introduced the product led growth motion and that is, in some cases, introducing customers a little bit lower price points we believe will come up and certainly they'll have eight our net dollar retention number over time and also some of the conversions or some of the customers coming from the marketing services space have come over on promotional pricing where that represents an opportunity for rate in the future, which will be great. But that's just introducing a little bit of noise into our RPU number before anybody gets too worried about, you know, our RPU number.

謝謝保羅，我想對淨美元保留率的改進發表評論。因此，隨著我們的前進，這個數字可能會有點噪音，因為我們已經引入了產品主導的成長動議，也就是說，在某些情況下，向客戶介紹稍微低一點的價格點，我們相信會出現，當然他們'隨著時間的推移，我們的淨美元保留數將達到8，而且一些轉化或來自營銷服務領域的一些客戶已經開始採用促銷定價，這代表著未來的利率機會，這將是很棒的。但這只是在我們的 RPU 數字變得太擔心之前，給我們的 RPU 數字引入了一點噪音。

I wanted to just highlight that we've studied season dark that looking at people have been with us at least a year, and we're increasing seasoned RPU in the mid 10s. So once somebody is with us and settle down and get going. We see a strong RPU growth, which of course, is what's driving the net dollar retention improvement.

我想強調的是，我們已經研究了季節黑暗，觀察人們已經和我們在一起至少一年了，我們正在將經驗豐富的 RPU 增加到 10 多歲。因此，一旦有人和我們在一起並安定下來並開始行動。我們看到 RPU 強勁成長，這當然是推動淨美元保留率改善的原因。

So far, I'm saying is just watch out for a little, David, maybe a little bit of bouncing around in RPU as we bring in mass numbers of new customers, some of which have different price points. I'd like to comment on our legacy client upgrade. If you came to invest in the phone book business, it's not a bad news for which we are rapidly building the SaaS business.

到目前為止，我想說的是，大衛，當我們引入大量新客戶時，RPU 可能會出現一些波動，其中一些客戶的價格點不同。我想對我們的舊版客戶端升級發表評論。如果你來投資電話簿業務，這並不是一個壞消息，為此我們正在快速打造SaaS業務。

And now we've got more business lead generating tools for getting a lot better traction into that legacy the legacy base and not so excited to see how this thing is happening and marketing center has been a real key and what's driving that. So I wanted to just sort of wrap up today's call by just talking about EBITDA. This is a business that has had big EBITDA, but it's been declining EBITDA for a very long time.

現在，我們有了更多的業務線索生成工具，可以更好地吸引傳統基礎，並且不太高興看到這件事是如何發生的，而行銷中心一直是真正的關鍵以及推動這一點的因素。所以我想透過談論 EBITDA 來結束今天的電話會議。這是一家擁有大量 EBITDA 的企業，但 EBITDA 很長一段時間以來一直在下降。

And we are finally showing up at the place where we're reaching the nadir of the low point in that EBITDA and that's because the SaaS business is now profitable and SaaS EBITDA is growing quite quickly and it's chunky them. And so as we look at the total EBITDA of the Company generates. We are reaching the point where are there or thereabouts.

我們終於到達了 EBITDA 的最低點，這是因為 SaaS 業務現在已經盈利，並且 SaaS EBITDA 增長得相當快，而且規模很大。因此，當我們查看公司產生的 EBITDA 總額時。我們已經達到了那裡或附近的地步。

We stopped falling and we'll be around the same place as the transition of source of EBITDA goes from the legacy marketing services to now the SaaS business. So we expect that the SaaS business will be approximately 40% of the company's revenue this year.

我們不再下滑，隨著 EBITDA 來源從傳統行銷服務過渡到現在的 SaaS 業務，我們將處於相同的位置。因此我們預計今年SaaS業務將占公司營收的40%左右。

And looking ahead to the next year we're looking at now reaching parity and coming out of that with the SaaS business actually being the larger chunk of our business. So it has good margins and has the potential to really carry the EBITDA load.

展望明年，我們希望能夠實現與 SaaS 業務的平等，並最終成為我們業務的主要部分。因此它具有良好的利潤率，並且有潛力真正承擔 EBITDA 負擔。

I wanted to comment quickly on international. International is going really well for us. So a failure to deal in that area is going great. Our greenfield activity in Canada is making good progress. We are our international leaders looking at taking us into some more markets on the last several years EBITDA has been a bit of a drag out of international and as Australia is now reaching profitability as we look forward and International will not will stop being a drag and begin to contribute. And certainly as we look into '25 and beyond.

我想快速評論一下國際。國際化對我們來說進展順利。因此，在該領域的失敗將是一件大事。我們在加拿大的綠地活動正在取得良好進展。我們是我們的國際領導者，希望將我們帶入更多的市場，過去幾年，EBITDA 一直對國際市場產生了一定的拖累，隨著澳洲現在正在實現盈利，我們期待著，國際市場將不會停止成為一個拖累，開始貢獻。當然，當我們展望 25 年及以後。

So when you think about EBITDA sources and minuses that goes from having been a minus being a neutral this year to being positive in the future. So we're pretty excited about it, our international business and how that's going. And so I'm going to wind up with this by saying this has been quite a journey from here. I'm coming up on my 10th anniversary here at what used to be DAx and has now thrive.

因此，當你考慮 EBITDA 來源和負面影響時，你會發現，今年的負面影響是中性，但未來卻是正面。因此，我們對我們的國際業務及其進展感到非常興奮。因此，我最後要說的是，從這裡開始，這是一段相當漫長的旅程。我即將迎來我在這裡的十週年紀念日，這裡曾經是 DAx，現在已經蓬勃發展。

And you know, we set out a pretty ambitious thing. Take this big legacy media business and transform it into a fast-growing SaaS business. And we're now just a few quarters away from that being the predominant source of revenue and being very profitable and driving forward. So we're pretty excited about that. And I think almost anybody could see that now it was hard for people to see a couple of years ago, but it's pretty easy to see it now and done. So thank you for your support. We really appreciate our investors that had the vision to hang with us and sort of see the thing unfolding, I think you're going to be rewarded them.

你知道，我們制定了一項非常雄心勃勃的計劃。將這項大型傳統媒體業務轉變為快速成長的 SaaS 業務。現在，我們距離成為主要收入來源、實現盈利並不斷向前發展僅剩幾季的時間。所以我們對此感到非常興奮。我認為幾乎每個人都可以看到，幾年前人們很難看到這一點，但現在很容易看到並完成。所以感謝您的支持。我們非常感謝我們的投資者，他們有遠見與我們在一起並看到事情的發展，我認為你會得到他們的回報。

So with that, I'm going to wrap up and turn it back to the operator. Operator?

因此，我將結束並將其返回給操作員。操作員？

(Operator Instructions) Arjun Bhatia, William Blair.

（操作員說明）Arjun Bhatia，William Blair。

Perfect. Thank you, guys. I appreciate all the color and nice job on Q4 here. And Joe, if I can touch on the transition and upgrade plans that you've laid out a little bit and how you how should we think about maybe handicapping how many of the marketing services customers will migrate over or will upgrade versus some that that may or may not? And what are you kind of incorporating into the guidance for that? And maybe as a follow-on to that, when customers do move out or do you anticipate they're going to buy a business center marketing center? Or is it going to be a little bit of all of the above.

完美的。感謝你們。我很欣賞第四季度的所有色彩和出色的工作。喬，如果我能談談您已經制定的過渡和升級計劃，以及我們應該如何考慮可能會阻礙多少行銷服務客戶將遷移或升級，而不是一些可能的或可能不會？您打算將哪些內容納入該指南？也許作為後續，當客戶搬出或您預計他們會購買商務中心行銷中心時？或者它會是上述所有內容的一部分。

So those are two great questions. They really get at the core in the latest and unfold over the next couple of years. I wonder if you'll permit me back the camera up a little bit and think about bigger picture. So it in February of 2024, let's just go out to the latter part of the decade. Let's go out to 29, 30, like sort of even five, six years now as we go out in time and we'll weigh all of those businesses, if they're still in business, will be using cloud tools at that point.

這是兩個很好的問題。它們在最近才真正觸及核心，並在接下來的幾年中展開。我想知道你是否允許我把鏡頭調高一點，考慮更大的畫面。那麼，到了 2024 年 2 月，我們就進入這個十年的後半段吧。讓我們展望 29、30 年，甚至是五、六年，隨著時間的推移，我們將權衡所有這些企業（如果它們仍在營業）到那時是否會使用雲端工具。

So today, a lot of them are what I often affectionately refer to as the unplanned and whether they're really still using spreadsheets and they got dry or a forward sale or the trucks to go on and they're still they're still doing manual things and a lot of American kind of blue-collar businesses, a lot of them and they don't have advanced education.

所以今天，他們中的許多人都是我經常親切地稱為計劃外的人，無論他們是否真的仍在使用電子表格，他們是否已經乾了或遠期銷售或卡車繼續前進，他們仍然在做手工製品和許多美國式的藍領企業，其中許多都沒有受過高等教育。

They haven't been exposed to a lot of technology. And so they require a little help. But if we go forward, say, five or six years, virtually everyone that's still in business will be on the cloud. So then the question becomes they've been with us for 15 years or more for those businesses make the transition to the cloud? Are they going to do it with us? Are they going to do it with their trusted business advisor and with a company that they have this relationship with us that has the category leading software that's focused on making it easy to use.

他們還沒有接觸過很多技術。所以他們需要一點幫助。但如果我們繼續前進，比如說五、六年，幾乎所有仍在營業的企業都會使用雲端。那麼問題就變成了，他們已經在我們身邊工作了 15 年或更長時間，以便那些企業能夠過渡到雲端？他們會和我們一起做嗎？他們是否會與他們值得信賴的業務顧問以及與我們有這種關係的公司一起做這件事，該公司擁有專注於使其易於使用的類別領先軟體。

That has literally hundreds of people guiding teaching selling helping them get there. So we think that we're very well-positioned to literally get them all to get off on a legacy customer over on the staff tools and to get their friend and an ever.

事實上，有數百人指導銷售教學，幫助他們實現這一目標。因此，我們認為我們處於非常有利的位置，可以讓他們所有人在員工工具上擺脫傳統客戶，並獲得他們的朋友和永遠的朋友。

And we're seeing our referral for last couple of years about our largest stores. We think that they're going to bring their friends and drove the guys. They play golf on Saturday morning, the guys, they pull it on Tuesday night. They're going to say, look, I've been struggling with the two I just talk about drive. It's worked out really well, at least talk to my eye and our e-mail Rainbow Monday morning.

我們看到過去幾年關於我們最大的商店的推薦。我們認為他們會帶上他們的朋友並開車送這些人。他們在周六早上打高爾夫球，夥計們，他們在周二晚上打高爾夫球。他們會說，看，我一直在與我剛剛談論的驅動力這兩個問題作鬥爭。效果非常好，至少週一早上跟我的眼睛和我們的電子郵件彩虹交談。

So I do think that the entire base can eventually come over to SAP. And I'm not suggesting that will happen and the balance of 2020 or even 2025, I think this is still unfolding and it's a kind of a mega trend that takes a little while to happen. Sometimes they formed slowly accelerates globally. And all of a sudden there's a big boost that happens even seen that another tech adoption phases from. So that's my answer on how I think we'll do over time.

所以我確實認為整個基地最終都會轉向 SAP。我並不是說這種情況會發生，而且到 2020 年甚至 2025 年，我認為這種情況仍在發展中，這是一種大趨勢，需要一段時間才能發生。有時它們的形成會在全球範圍內緩慢加速。突然之間，即使看到另一種技術的採用逐漸停止，也會出現巨大的推動力。這就是我對我認為隨著時間的推移我們將如何做的回答。

The second question you asked was, what are they and why are they going to buy business center or they go by marketing center where they go to Bob. And what we're finding is that the jump over to Business Center is a little bit longer jump.

你問的第二個問題是，他們是什麼，為什麼他們要買商務中心，或是他們透過行銷中心去鮑伯那裡。我們發現，到商務中心的跳轉時間有點長。

Then jumping over to marketing center because marketing center is effectively helping them get more business leads, helping them do that smarter, do it more efficiently, analyze it know that source early know what's working? What's not working and generate them. And that is a pretty close kissing cousin to what they were buying in the past. And in many cases, they're still buying the legacy marketing services, lead sources and there they're adding. They're adding me on the marketing center element.

然後跳到行銷中心，因為行銷中心正在有效地幫助他們獲得更多的業務線索，幫助他們更聰明、更有效率地做到這一點，分析它，知道來源早知道什麼在起作用？什麼不起作用並生成它們。這與他們過去購買的產品非常接近。在許多情況下，他們仍在購買傳統的行銷服務、潛在客戶來源，並在那裡添加。他們將我添加到行銷中心元素中。

So marketing center, it turns out is kind of a blockbuster product for us and its growth is really accelerating on Business Center has been around for a long time and marketing centers quickly catching in terms of our number of customers on it and revenue and all that stuff. So those are those are two answers to your question that I get what you wanted.

So marketing center, it turns out is kind of a blockbuster product for us and its growth is really accelerating on Business Center has been around for a long time and marketing centers quickly catching in terms of our number of customers on it and revenue and all that東西.這就是你問題的兩個答案，我得到了你想要的。

Yes, that's super helpful. And actually, just kind of dovetailing off of that, because I think that this transition certainly makes sense or is kind of inevitable anyway, it's right. And but when you're thinking of how to run the business through this process, how are you thinking about kind of internal resource allocation because I mean, one of the obviously potential and likely outcomes of that. This drives a host of transition to the fax business. And so to onboard these customers down to get them ramped up on the product and start even the cross-sell motion at some point, right, partly internally. But do you have the resources set for that? Or is that something that maybe an incremental investment we should expect to keep growing the SaaS business.

是的，這非常有幫助。實際上，這與此相吻合，因為我認為這種轉變肯定是有意義的，或者無論如何都是不可避免的，這是正確的。但是，當您考慮如何透過此流程來運作業務時，您會如何考慮內部資源分配，因為我的意思是，這顯然是潛在和可能的結果之一。這推動了向傳真業務的大量轉型。因此，要吸引這些客戶，讓他們對產品產生興趣，甚至在某個時候開始交叉銷售運動，對吧，部分是在內部。但你有為此準備的資源嗎？或者說，這可能是我們應該期望持續成長 SaaS 業務的增量投資。

That's another excellent. Collectively been actually doing what you just described sort of sort of transitioning to that that that's putting really throughout the last year. If you remember, we kind of brought marketing center along slowly in Q1 and Q2 of last year. Then it really hit stride when we let it out for full relief in the summer. And up until that time, we did not allow the sales force to sell to anybody and we really had kind of a gated process because as you know very well, churn is the thing that we just do not want. So we wanted to make sure we sort of brought it along slowly for successful.

這又是一個極好的。總的來說，實際上一直在做你剛才所描述的事情，有點過渡到去年全年所做的事情。如果你還記得的話，我們在去年第一季和第二季慢慢建立了行銷中心。當我們在夏天讓它得到充分緩解時，它才真正大步前進。直到那時，我們不允許銷售人員向任何人銷售產品，我們確實有一個封閉的流程，因為正如你所知，客戶流失是我們不想要的事情。所以我們想確保我們慢慢地取得成功。

So if you go back and you look at Q3 of last year, you saw a pretty strong acceleration in subscriber adds. That was us really getting onto that putting on us organizing around that. So with past tense, we've already done it. So you've already seen it flow through our numbers.

因此，如果您回顧去年第三季度，您會看到訂閱者增加的速度相當強勁。那是我們真正開始圍繞它進行組織的事情。所以用過去式，我們已經完成了。所以你已經看到它在我們的數字中流動。

Perfect and appreciate it.

完美並欣賞它。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thanks, Arjun.

謝謝，阿瓊。

(Operator Instructions) Zach Cummins, B. Riley Securities.

（操作員指令）Zach Cummins，B. Riley Securities。

Hey, good morning.

嗨，早安。

Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on the solid Q4 results here. I was hoping to maybe add to a question towards grant in terms of this transition process within that legacy marketing services base, I mean, can you talk about, has there been any sort of change in terms of incentives that are offered to some of these legacy customers or the approach to really accelerate that jump over to either marketing center business center?

感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀第四季度取得的紮實成果。我希望在遺留行銷服務基地的過渡過程中添加一個關於撥款的問題，我的意思是，你能談談，向其中一些人提供的激勵措施方面是否有任何變化傳統客戶或真正加速跳到任一行銷中心業務中心的方法？

Yes, good morning, Zack. That's a great question, actually. So I think what we've been laser focused on during this process, ensuring that we still provide a value that's commensurate with what they were receiving on the digital marketing services side, but then focus on giving them access to the additional tools that the more modern and up-to-date and invested in platform can afford them. So kind be bringing them across while still generating them, whether it's leads or the exposure that they have.

是的，早上好，扎克。實際上，這是一個很好的問題。因此，我認為在此過程中我們一直重點關注的是，確保我們仍然提供與他們在數位行銷服務方面獲得的價值相稱的價值，但隨後重點關注為他們提供更多工具現代和最新的並投資於平台可以負擔得起。因此，請在吸引他們的同時仍然產生他們，無論是潛在客戶還是他們所擁有的曝光。

On the old side, I'm still giving them that I'm still doing things like managing the listings, et cetera, but now giving them more modern technology, as I mentioned before, it really in many cases, no additional costs. And that also increases their level of engagement in the platform. When you speak to, for example, people that are moving over from more Passave value, digital marketing services, lead-generation products and to the platform to marketing center, for example, where you will now see them understanding things like attribution, the return on investment at the beginning, where their customers are coming from, et cetera.

在舊方面，我仍然告訴他們我仍在做諸如管理清單之類的事情，但現在為他們提供更現代的技術，正如我之前提到的，在很多情況下，確實沒有額外的成本。這也提高了他們對平台的參與度。例如，當您與從更多 Passave 價值、數位行銷服務、潛在客戶開發產品轉向平台到行銷中心的人交談時，您現在會看到他們了解歸因、回報等內容關於一開始的投資、客戶來自哪裡等等。

So again, it's really important to us, and we're laser focused on given the value that they had on the digital marketing services side and delivering upon that. But then adding more in many cases at no additional cost. So it's been received very well and we're turning people that were relatively passive yet happy clients into more active and engaged happier clients. So I don't know if that answers your questions.

再說一次，這對我們來說非常重要，考慮到他們在數位行銷服務方面的價值並實現這一點，我們非常關注。但在許多情況下添加更多內容無需額外費用。因此，它受到了很好的反響，我們正在將相對被動但快樂的客戶轉變為更積極、更投入的快樂客戶。所以我不知道這是否能回答你的問題。

Yes, extremely helpful. Thanks for that, Grant. And Joe, just one question for me around just the number of SaaS subscribers you had the big jump up in Q3 and it seems well strong growth year over year in Q4 is essentially pretty similar from Q3 to Q4. Can you talk about any moving parts around that metric and kind of what played out in Q4 for that sets subscriber metric?

是的，非常有幫助。謝謝你，格蘭特。Joe，我想問一個問題，關於第三季度 SaaS 訂戶數量的大幅增長，第四季度同比增長似乎非常強勁，與第三季度和第四季度基本相似。您能談談圍繞該指標的任何變化部分以及第四季度針對該設定訂戶指標所發生的情況嗎？

And yes, I mean, it's actually a pretty natural process. Our customers are seeing value in I mean, Graham said it so beautifully there in adding these analytics and diagnostic tools, and we are basically allowing them to do it for little or no additional money. We're kind of moving them over and that is going to set up the opportunity for us, and you'll probably get a little bit of rate at the next couple of years go by there's a little bit of an upgrade path. I think that will be able to happen there. So you'll I think you'll see that flowing through in net dollar retention and some of our growth numbers in the future. But some it's allowing us to also reduce or even eliminate some of the investments that we would have been making in some of those older platforms as people moving over.

是的，我的意思是，這實際上是一個非常自然的過程。我的意思是，我們的客戶看到了添加這些分析和診斷工具的價值，格雷厄姆說得很漂亮，而且我們基本上允許他們只需很少的錢或不需要額外的錢就能做到這一點。我們正在將它們轉移過來，這將為我們創造機會，在接下來的幾年中，您可能會獲得一點利率，因為有一點升級路徑。我認為這將能夠在那裡發生。因此，我認為您會看到淨美元保留率和我們未來的一些成長數據的流動。但在某些方面，它也允許我們減少甚至消除隨著人們的遷移而在一些舊平台上進行的一些投資。

So in terms of the I guess, the way what to expect as you keep going forward, we think there's a lot more our sales force really has that on the story down. They're comfortable telling the story. Now the product is performing well and none. We think there's going to be more, I think what you've been seeing you will see for a while.

因此，就我猜想，隨著您繼續前進，我們認為我們的銷售人員確實有更多的東西在講故事。他們很舒服地講述這個故事。現在產品表現良好，無。我們認為還會有更多，我想你已經看到的東西將會在一段時間內看到。

Understood thanks for taking my questions and best of luck here in 2024.

感謝您提出我的問題，祝福 2024 年一切順利。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

(Operator Instructions) Rob Oliver, Baird.

（操作員說明）Rob Oliver，Baird。

Great. Thanks, guys. Good morning. Appreciate it on show you I appreciated the color that you gave around some of the RPU trends and the fact that kind of newer customers are coming in at promotional pricing on you talk a little bit about how we should think about customer growth versus our two and 2024 because while there is some pressure on those new customers, this season RPU numbers actually really nice. I just wanted to understand how you guys are thinking about that? And then I just had a quick follow up.

偉大的。多謝你們。早安.感謝您展示的內容，我很欣賞您圍繞一些 RPU 趨勢給出的顏色，以及新客戶以促銷價格進入的事實，您談論一下我們應該如何考慮客戶增長與我們的兩個和2024 年，因為雖然這些新客戶面臨一些壓力，但本季的RPU 數字實際上非常好。我只是想了解你們如何看待這個問題？然後我就進行了快速跟進。

Yes, you got everything rolling back the right reason. We broke out the market and what makes you guys comfortable that the customers that we have in the base at the moment, the while our spending more are growing, even if the RPU number gets noisy because of some of the cross wins that are coming through this. There's two big cross win. They're going to kind of shake up the RPU number and make it bounce up a little bit. And one is what we've been talking about and that customers coming over and us moving them in some cases for what they're currently spending on old tool over the new one or maybe only a small step up, but not all the way to full rate. So that gives you a little bit of noise there, and that should be a good guide for growth going forward.

是的，你讓一切都以正確的理由回滾了。我們突破了市場，讓你們感到放心的是，我們目前在基地擁有的客戶，而我們的支出正在增長，即使 RPU 數字因為一些交叉勝利而變得嘈雜這。有兩場重大交叉勝利。他們將調整 RPU 數字並使其稍微反彈。一個是我們一直在談論的，客戶過來後，我們在某些​​情況下將他們轉移到舊工具上，而不是新工具上，或者可能只是一小步，但並不是一直到全率。所以這會給你帶來一些噪音，這應該是未來成長的一個很好的指南。

And the second thing is going to be introducing some noise as we go through 24 and 25 is our product-led growth motion where command center customers can literally discover the product on their own sign up and use it for free forever. And then if they want to add channels or they want to add users that they want to upgrade it.

第二件事是在我們經歷 24 和 25 時引入一些噪音，這是我們以產品為主導的成長運動，指揮中心客戶可以在自己註冊時真正發現該產品並永久免費使用它。然後，如果他們想要新增頻道或想要新增用戶，他們想要升級它。

They can upgrade on their own or after a certain amount of usage. They'll kind of turn green on our dashboard and we're going to go talk to them and they're going to upgrade. But in a lot of cases, they'll be coming in at smaller price points. And that's more of a land and expand motion. It's to help us build a New Zealand new Blue Ocean out there of customers to go work with and call on. So I expect those numbers to be fairly small in the beginning.

他們可以自行升級，也可以在使用一定量後升級。他們會在我們的儀表板上變成綠色，我們將與他們交談，他們將進行升級。但在很多情況下，它們的價格會更低。這更多的是著陸和擴展運動。這是為了幫助我們在新西蘭建立一個新的藍海，供客戶合作和拜訪。所以我預計這些數字一開始會相當小。

So I don't think that they will have a massive impact to RPU. But I think our RPU number will just be a little bit noisy as we kind of work through those two trends, even though overall, if you go back to our Investor Day guidance, we think that that kind of 4,000 the year we were getting at the time the Investor Day move to 7,000 a year per customer as they buy a digital center of additional add-on additional features and we grow with these successful businesses.

所以我認為它們不會對 RPU 產生巨大影響。但我認為，當我們研究這兩種趨勢時，我們的 RPU 數字會有點吵雜，儘管總體而言，如果你回到我們的投資者日指引，我們認為我們當年獲得的 RPU 數字為 4,000當投資者日的人數增加到每年7,000 名客戶時，他們會購買具有附加附加功能的數位中心，而我們會與這些成功的企業一起成長。

I wanted to comment that helps us drive visits within the community is doing better than the guy next door. That's not on fraud. He's delivering a much better experience for his customers. He's getting paid digitally getting next day funds is he's got a pretty slick business operation going. And if it goes to sell it, it will be worth more and the business next door. And I've got a pile of paper from customers are thriving and we're growing with them.

我想評論的是，幫助我們推動社區內的訪問量比隔壁的人做得更好。這不是詐欺。他正在為客戶提供更好的體驗。他以數位方式獲得報酬，並獲得第二天的資金，因為他的業務運作相當順利。如果它賣掉，它和隔壁的生意就會更值錢。我收到了一堆來自客戶的文件，客戶正在蓬勃發展，我們正在與他們一起成長。

And a lot of them have gone from three or four employees to seven or eight or 10, and we're growing with that. But we think we'll be able to keep growing with them and adding centers, adding functionality. And that's part of what we talk to every day in our Hotwire group. And as we talk to customers in the field and I continue to do my customer visits each week, we talk to customers who are doing well and talking about what would be next for them and what they would need. And that's been animating our roadmap and part of why we have another center coming out in a few months and another one coming out next year to help soak up some of those needs.

他們中的許多人已經從三到四名員工增加到七、八或十名，我們正在隨之成長。但我們認為我們將能夠與他們一起不斷成長並增加中心，增加功能。這是我們 Hotwire 小組每天討論的內容的一部分。當我們與現場客戶交談時，我繼續每週拜訪客戶，我們與表現良好的客戶交談，討論他們的下一步計劃以及他們需要什麼。這一直在推動我們的路線圖，也是為什麼我們會在幾個月內設立另一個中心，並在明年設立另一個中心來幫助滿足其中一些需求。

So final comment on RPU. We think our food gradually rises toward that 7,000 year number over the next three, four, five years, but it might be a little noisy for a minute as some of these you have processes play out.

最後對 RPU 進行評論。我們認為，在接下來的三、四、五年內，我們的食物會逐漸向 7000 年的數字上升，但隨著其中一些過程的展開，可能會有點吵鬧。

That's really helpful detail. Thanks.

這確實是很有幫助的細節。謝謝。

Joe and then on one follow up, I would love to hear your perspective. I mean, you mentioned your 10-year anniversary here. Obviously, you know, looking back, it's been a tremendous amount of progress and the move to kind of really transforming into a SaaS company here and on.

喬，然後在一次後續行動中，我很想聽聽你的觀點。我的意思是，你在這裡提到了你們的十週年紀念日。顯然，你知道，回顧過去，這是一個巨大的進步，並且正在向真正轉變為 SaaS 公司。

Got you. Just in that context, I wanted to just get your thoughts on M&A because Vito, on the one hand, you guys have really proven that, you know, our buying of these like businesses globally is a core competency of yours and your ability to convert them, as you know, but better than anyone out there. It's SaaS customers and you're just really hitting the knee of the curve on that right now.

明白你了。正是在這種背景下，我想了解你們對併購的看法，因為維托，一方面，你們確實證明了，我們在全球範圍內收購這些類似的企業是你們的核心競爭力，也是你們轉化的能力正如你所知，他們比任何人都好。這是 SaaS 客戶，而您現在正處於曲線的轉折點。

On the other hand, you know by more of those companies would push out that transition point to becoming a SaaS company further. So I'd just love to hear how you're thinking about that, particularly in light of the SaaS momentum you guys are currently experiencing?

另一方面，您知道，更多這樣的公司將進一步推動成為 SaaS 公司的轉變點。所以我很想聽聽你們對此有何看法，特別是考慮到你們目前正在經歷的 SaaS 勢頭？

Thank you.

謝謝。

Well, it's a really it's a really good question and kind of a complex question, and I don't want to take too terribly much time. So I'll tell you that we've been really successful with these on adding customers to the zoo and converting them. That's gone well. We're pretty much at the end of that are nearing the end of that. There's not a lot of that left, and we anxiously look forward to making SaaS acquisitions.

嗯，這確實是一個非常好的問題，也是一個複雜的問題，我不想花太多時間。所以我會告訴你，我們在為動物園增加客戶並轉換他們方面確實取得了成功。一切順利。我們已經快要結束了。剩下的已經不多了，我們焦急地期待著進行 SaaS 收購。

And, you know, you're moving in that direction. It's really for us, you know, a financial question. We're currently valued in a place where it makes significant data acquisitions hard to do. And we think that will change in the near future.

而且，你知道，你正在朝這個方向前進。你知道，這對我們來說確實是一個財務問題。我們目前的估值處於一個難以進行大量資料收集的位置。我們認為這種情況在不久的將來將會改變。

But on for the moment, that's sort of where we are. So we've had the kind of cautious there. We also have a particularly lousy credit facility which at some point we will swap out. And that will give us a lot more flexibility and help us a lot. But you know that we are postponing when the crossover point on SaaS revenue and all that stuff, and we're paying attention to that.

但就目前而言，這就是我們所處的情況。所以我們對此持謹慎態度。我們還有一個特別糟糕的信貸安排，在某個時候我們會換掉它。這將為我們提供更大的靈活性並對我們有很大幫助。但你知道，我們正在推遲 SaaS 收入和所有其他內容的交叉點，我們正在關注這一點。

That's something that we think about them. But we've had some really incredible economics with the acquisitions that we have made. And so we're not sorry that we made them on. And I think the improved traction we're getting in the zoo with marketing Centre and some of the other new developments that we've made and give us a lot of confidence that that crossover point is nobody should worry about that, whether it six quarters away or seven or eight quarters away. It's not that far away. And if you're an investor and you're not thinking at least a few years out, we'd just as soon not have you at our equity to be honest with you if we're looking for people that want to invest in a growing business. So that's kind of how we're thinking about.

這是我們對他們的看法。但我們透過收購獲得了一些非常令人難以置信的經濟效益。所以我們並不後悔我們成功了。我認為我們在動物園中透過行銷中心和其他一些新開發案獲得的吸引力有所提高，這給了我們很大的信心，即這個交叉點是沒有人應該擔心的，無論是六個季度遠或七、八個季度遠。距離並不遠。如果你是投資者，而且你至少沒有考慮過幾年，那麼說實話，如果我們正在尋找想要投資的人，我們就不會讓你參與我們的股權投資。不斷成長的業務。這就是我們的想法。

Okay.

好的。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Thanks And

謝謝並且

(Operator Instructions) Richard Francis, Infinys.

（操作員說明）Richard Francis，Infinys。

That brings our Q&A session to a close. Thank you to our speakers for today's presentation and thank you all for joining us.

我們的問答環節到此結束。感謝今天的演講者的演講，也感謝大家加入我們。

This concludes today's conference call and enjoy the rest of your day.

今天的電話會議到此結束，祝您今天剩下的時間愉快。

You may now disconnect.

您現在可以斷開連線。