Tempus AI Inc (TEM) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Thank you for standing by. My name is Brianna, and I will be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Tempus AI Third Quarter 2024 Financial Results Conference Call.

謝謝你的支持。我叫布麗安娜，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。在此，我歡迎大家參加騰邦人工智慧2024年第三季財務業績電話會議。

(Operator Instructions) I will now turn the conference over to Liz Krutoholow. Please go ahead.

（操作員指示）我現在將會議轉交給 Liz Krutoholow。請繼續。

Thank you, Brianna. Good afternoon, and welcome to Tempus third quarter 2024 conference call. This afternoon, Tempus released results for the quarter ending September 30, 2024. Joining me today from Tempus are Eric Lefkofsky, Founder and CEO of Tempus and Jim Rogers, CFO.

謝謝你，布麗安娜。下午好，歡迎參加 Tempus 2024 年第三季電話會議。今天下午，Tempus 發布了截至2024 年9 月30 日的季度業績。官吉姆·羅傑斯(Jim Rogers)。

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that during this call, management may make forward-looking statements that are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially. For a discussion of these risks, please visit our 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2024, filed on November 4, 2024 as well as any future reports that we file with the SEC.

在我們開始之前，我想提醒您，在這次電話會議中，管理階層可能會做出前瞻性陳述，這些陳述受到風險和不確定性的影響，可能導致實際結果出現重大差異。有關這些風險的討論，請參閱我們於 2024 年 11 月 4 日提交的截至 2024 年 9 月 30 日的季度 10-Q 以及我們未來向 SEC 提交的任何報告。

During the call, we will discuss non-GAAP financial measures, which are not prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. Definitions of these non-GAAP financial measures, along with reconciliations to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our third quarter earnings release, which has been furnished to the SEC and is available on our website at investor.tempus.com.

在電話會議期間，我們將討論非公認會計原則財務指標，這些指標不符合公認會計原則。這些非GAAP 財務指標的定義以及與最直接可比較的GAAP 財務指標的調節都包含在我們的第三季度收益發布中，該發布已提供給SEC，並可在我們的網站Investor.tempus.com 上獲取。

I would now like to turn the call over to Eric.

我現在想把電話轉給艾瑞克。

Hi, all. Just before we start the Q&A session, I thought I would just briefly run through some of the highlights for the quarter. Q3 was a solid quarter for Tempus. We delivered revenue growth of 33%, hitting $180.9 million. We had Genomics unit growth that accelerated from last quarter to 23.9%, and which was meaningful acceleration in terms of unit growth. The overall business was about 20% growth based upon some ASP true-ups from last year, but we were excited to see the unit growth pick up.

大家好。就在我們開始問答環節之前，我想簡單回顧一下本季的一些亮點。對於 Tempus 來說，第三季是一個穩定的季度。我們的營收成長了 33%，達到 1.809 億美元。我們的 Genomics 單位成長較上季加快至 23.9%，就單位成長而言，這是有意義的加速。根據去年的一些 ASP 調整，整體業務成長了約 20%，但我們很高興看到單位成長加快。

Our data and services revenue accelerated to 64.4% year-over-year growth, notably led by our insights or data licensing business, which came in at 86.6%, which was a meaningful acceleration from last year -- in last quarter. We also delivered adjusted EBITDA of negative $21.8 million, which was a $14.4 million year-over-year improvement and also a significant improvement over the quarter. So we're well on track improving our EBITDA for the quarter as we march toward cash flow and adjusted breakeven.

我們的數據和服務收入同比增長 64.4%，特別是在我們的洞察或數據許可業務的帶動下，該業務增長了 86.6%，與去年（上季度）相比，這是一個有意義的加速。我們也實現了調整後 EBITDA 為負 2,180 萬美元，年增 1,440 萬美元，與本季相比也有顯著改善。因此，隨著我們向現金流和調整後的損益平衡邁進，我們正在穩步改善本季的 EBITDA。

On top of that, the big news, obviously, for the quarter as we announced the acquisition or that we have signed an agreement to acquire Ambry Genetics, who's a leader in hereditary screening and whose business we've come to know well over the past few years. They're actually our largest reference lab for the hereditary screening we do and we spent significant time with the team and understanding the business and are just super excited to have them join our world.

最重要的是，顯然，當我們宣布收購或我們簽署了收購 Ambry Genetics 的協議時，本季度的重大新聞，Ambry Genetics 是遺傳篩檢領域的領導者，我們過去對它的業務非常了解幾年。他們實際上是我們進行遺傳篩檢的最大參考實驗室，我們花了很多時間與團隊合作並了解業務，並且非常高興他們加入我們的世界。

The business is synergistic across all of our products from sequencing to over time, our Data business and our AI Applications business. They also accelerate our path to cash flow and adjusted EBITDA breakeven given that the business today is growing at more than 25%, which is meaningful growth, but even more fantastic is that they generate significant EBITDA. So they've achieved one of the rare things in our space where you actually have a Genomics business that has significant growth and a proprietary business model but is also making money. And we're excited that the combination of the 2 of us on an annualized basis will also be now adjusted EBITDA and cash flow positive.

該業務在我們的所有產品（從測序到隨著時間的推移）、我們的數據業務和我們的人工智慧應用業務中具有協同作用。他們也加速了我們的現金流和調整後的 EBITDA 盈虧平衡之路，因為目前的業務成長超過 25%，這是有意義的成長，但更神奇的是，他們產生了可觀的 EBITDA。因此，他們實現了我們領域中罕見的事情之一，即您實際上擁有基因組學業務，該業務具有顯著的成長和專有的商業模式，但同時也能賺錢。我們很高興我們兩人的合併現在也將按年化計算調整後的 EBITDA 和現金流為正。

We're paying $600 million for the business, $375 million in cash and $225 million in equity, $125 million, which will vest at closing, which should occur in early Q1 and the other $100 million, which is locked up for a year.

我們將為該業務支付6 億美元，其中3.75 億美元為現金，2.25 億美元為股權，其中1.25 億美元將在交易結束時歸屬，應在第一季初歸屬，另外1 億美元將鎖定一年。

And in terms of the multiples we're paying, it's about 1.9 times current revenue and roughly 15 times EBITDA. So we feel like we are buying the business at an attractive price and we're able to finance the business largely with additional debt from Ares. And so the transaction is not materially dilutive at all to our equity. So overall, a fantastic quarter.

就我們支付的倍數而言，大約是目前收入的 1.9 倍，約為 EBITDA 的 15 倍。因此，我們覺得我們正在以有吸引力的價格購買該業務，並且我們能夠主要透過 Ares 的額外債務為該業務提供融資。因此，此次交易根本不會實質稀釋我們的股權。總的來說，這是一個非常棒的季度。

And on that note, we're happy to take any questions folks have.

就此而言，我們很樂意回答人們提出的任何問題。

(Operator Instructions) Tejas Savant, Morgan Stanley.

（操作員指令）Tejas Savant，摩根士丹利。

Hey guys, good evening and, thanks for taking the questions here. Eric, maybe I'll start with the Ambry news. First of all, congrats on the announcement. Can you just walk us through the rationale of expanding into hereditary cancer testing? One of the questions, which I'm sure we get is the sustainability of that 25% growth you cited for the Ambry asset, in light of some of the uneven growth trends that some of the peers have faced in that market.

大家好，晚上好，感謝您在這裡提出問題。艾瑞克，也許我會從安布里的新聞開始。首先，恭喜您宣布這項消息。您能否向我們介紹擴展到遺傳性癌症檢測的基本原理？我相信我們得到的問題之一是您提到的 Ambry 資產 25% 成長的可持續性，因為該市場中一些同行面臨著一些不均衡的成長趨勢。

And then second, can you comment on just the organizational readiness, if you will, to continue making progress on the somatic side of the portfolio, including your MRD push while also expanding into these new verticals and integrating the transaction? Or is the plan here that you'll essentially operated at arm's length that was a well-run asset. You talked about the EBITDA generation there and essentially sort of think about integrating it further down the road.

其次，如果您願意的話，您能否評論一下組織準備情況，以繼續在投資組合的軀體方面取得進展，包括您的 MRD 推動，同時擴展到這些新的垂直領域並整合交易？或者這裡的計劃是，您基本上將保持一定的距離，這是一項運作良好的資產。您在那裡談到了 EBITDA 世代，並且基本上考慮了在未來進一步整合它。

Yea. So I'm happy to jump in. So first of all, we -- Ambry fits squarely within our current strategic platform for genomics, in that we currently offer hereditary testing today. We have an assay called xG, it's one of our main product categories.

是的。所以我很高興加入。我們有一種名為 xG 的檢測方法，它是我們的主要產品類別之一。

And it's critical to us because we want to capture patients early, we want to be there for them when they're being treated, we want to be they're monitoring their disease over time and we believe in what's been central to our thesis, which we've talked about historically, is that we believe it's going to be very much if you kind of look at the analogy of Amazon and e-commerce, more and more physicians and care teams and oncologists are going to want to work with those labs that can help them treat their patients from beginning to end and not work with five different labs.

這對我們來說至關重要，因為我們希望儘早捕獲患者，我們希望在他們接受治療時陪伴在他們身邊，我們希望他們能夠隨著時間的推移監測他們的疾病，並且我們相信我們論文的核心內容，我們在歷史上討論過，我們相信，如果你看一下亞馬遜和電子商業的類比，越來越多的醫生、護理團隊和腫瘤學家將希望與這些人合作可以幫助他們從頭到尾治療患者的實驗室，而不是與五個不同的實驗室合作。

They're going to want to work with one lab if that lab can offer comprehensive profiling. And so we have always felt it's important to be in hereditary screening. It's important to be in somatic and liquid testing for therapy selection. It's important to be an MRD and monitoring. So this fits kind of squarely within our strategic plans and current activities.

如果某個實驗室能夠提供全面的分析，他們就會願意與該實驗室合作。因此，我們一直認為進行基因篩檢很重要。進行體細胞和液體測試對於治療選擇非常重要。成為 MRD 和監測人員非常重要。因此，這完全符合我們的策略計劃和當前的活動。

Beyond that, the business has actually been accelerating their growth rate. And if you look at the landscape, we believe the hereditary market is quite stable, more and more insights are relevant to inherited cancer risk understanding.

除此之外，該業務實際上一直在加速成長。如果你看看整個情況，我們相信遺傳性市場相當穩定，越來越多的見解與遺傳性癌症風險了解有關。

And so there are certainly growth in that space. Ambry, in particular, seems to be taking market share from others. We don't see any signs that that's going to slow down and even though the law of big numbers does tend to bring down growth rates, which is true for us and will be true for them, we think that it will be a meaningful grower for some period of time.

所以這個領域一定會有成長。尤其是安布里，似乎正在從其他公司手中奪取市場份額。我們沒有看到任何跡象表明這種成長會放緩，儘管大數定律確實會降低成長率，這對我們來說是正確的，對他們來說也是如此，但我們認為這將是一個有意義的成長在一段時間內。

And there's nothing that we saw in the past year where we really dug into the business deeply that led us to think there was some kind of systemic slowdown. So we think the business will perform well, it will grow. It, will make more money and it fits squarely within our footprint.

在過去的一年裡，我們沒有看到任何真正深入研究該業務的事情，這讓我們認為存在某種系統性放緩。因此，我們認為該業務將會表現良好，並且將會成長。它會賺更多的錢，而且完全符合我們的足跡。

In terms of the other end of the spectrum, which is, okay, instead of catching patients earlier before they develop cancer right when they do, thinking about monitoring them post therapy for minimal disease detection as well as monitoring.

另一方面，可以考慮在治療後對他們進行監測，以進行最小的疾病檢測和監測，而不是在患者患有癌症之前儘早發現他們。

We have -- we've talked about historically, we have kind of two different platforms there. One is our tumor-naive assay, we're in colorectal cancer, we're doing our own -- we have our own liquid assay and the other is a tumor-informed product that is in partnership with Personalis in lung and breast and IO response.

我們歷史上已經討論過，我們有兩種不同的平台。一個是我們的腫瘤初始檢測，我們在結直腸癌方面，我們正在做我們自己的——我們有自己的液體檢測，另一個是與Personalis 合作開發的腫瘤相關產品，用於肺癌、乳腺癌和IO領域回复。

And we believe that our portfolio in MRD is expansive. We think it's the right portfolio to capture share. The demand for our products have been quite strong. We're obviously gated by reimbursement and until both we and Personalis achieve reimbursement, it's hard to really unshackle those products. And so I would suspect it will be a much more meaningful story in the coming years as we get reimbursement and as we really start to ramp that portfolio.

我們相信我們在 MRD 領域的投資組合非常廣泛。我們認為這是獲取市場份額的正確投資組合。對我們產品的需求相當強勁。顯然，我們受到報銷的限制，在我們和 Personalis 都實現報銷之前，很難真正擺脫這些產品的束縛。因此，我懷疑，隨著我們獲得報銷並且我們真正開始擴大該投資組合，未來幾年這將是一個更有意義的故事。

Got it. That's helpful. And then maybe switching gears to the data side of things you guys I think you talked about the Merck EMD contract renewal. You got -- intra-quarter, you got the expansion of the Takeda collaboration and another one with BioNTech as well.

知道了。這很有幫助。然後可能會轉向數據方面的事情，我想你們談到了默克 EMD 合約的續約。在季度內，您擴大了與武田（Takeda）的合作，以及與 BioNTech 的另一項合作。

Can you just clarify whether the TCV grew a little bit sequentially? I know you kind of reiterated that was north of $900 million again, but it would be helpful to just reassure investors that it's moving in the right direction.

您能澄清一下 TCV 是否連續成長了一點嗎？我知道你重申了這一數字再次超過了 9 億美元，但只要讓投資者放心，它正在朝著正確的方向發展，將會很有幫助。

And then Jim, one for you in terms of the near-term dynamics here. One of the questions we get is, there's a $20 million, $25 million sort of quarter-over-quarter step-up that's embedded in Street models into the fourth quarter for the Data and Services business. So, just your visibility there in light of some of the mixed commentary we've gotten from the CROs and some of the other players in biopharma funding weakness would be helpful.

然後是吉姆，他為您介紹了這裡的近期動態。我們得到的一個問題是，第四季度數據和服務業務的 Street 模型中嵌入了 2000 萬美元、2500 萬美元的季度環比增長。因此，根據我們從 CRO 和生物製藥融資弱點的其他一些參與者那裡得到的一些褒貶不一的評論，您的可見度將會有所幫助。

I'll start with the overall business and then Jim can talk a little bit about the financial metric. The data business continues to be strong. We were fortunate that a lot of the pressure that other people have been experiencing, we're not immune to it. Certainly, there was historically some additional tailwind when biotechs were going public and R&D budgets were larger and so we certainly have seen some of that tailwinds subside, but the overall business remains really strong.

我將從整體業務開始，然後吉姆可以談談財務指標。數據業務持續強勁。我們很幸運，其他人所經歷的許多壓力，我們也無法倖免。當然，從歷史上看，當生物技術上市並且研發預算更大時，會出現一些額外的順風，因此我們當然已經看到其中一些順風消退，但整體業務仍然非常強勁。

And in fact, the growth rate when you look at our data licensing business of almost 87% we don't expect to sustain that. So we expect the growth rates to come down. And so we have a long -- we've got some good cushion in terms of building a durable, meaningful, fast-growing, large data business given where we sit.

事實上，當你看看我們的數據授權業務近 87% 的成長率時，我們預計不會維持這個水準。因此我們預期成長率將會下降。因此，鑑於我們所處的位置，我們在建立持久、有意義、快速成長的大數據業務方面擁有一些良好的緩衝。

And so overall, I would say everything is moving the right direction. One thing really quickly on Merck, it's really nice when a large client that has a big three-year data license, and it comes up for renewal and then you resign up, you expand these relationships is really, I think, a testament to the data is adding value. Our products are adding value.

總的來說，我想說一切都在朝著正確的方向發展。默克很快就發生了一件事，當一個擁有三年期大數據許可證的大客戶需要續簽，然後你辭職時，這真的很好，我認為，你擴大了這些關係，這確實證明了數據正在增加價值。我們的產品正在增加價值。

And what most people don't understand when they look at our Data businesses, it's not just that we have lots of data, which we obviously do. But we've built a whole series of tools and data products that make that data usable by biotech and pharmaceutical companies. And that's really the main differentiation. And in terms of the overall metric of $900 million, I'll let Jim, answer.

大多數人在審視我們的數據業務時不明白的是，我們顯然擁有大量數據，而這不僅僅是我們擁有大量數據。但我們已經建立了一系列工具和數據產品，使生物技術和製藥公司可以使用這些數據。這確實是主要的區別。至於 9 億美元的整體指標，我會讓吉姆來回答。

Yes. So as we noted at the end of Q2, it was north of $900 million, still north of $900 million at the end of Q3. We obviously recognize a lot of revenue in Q3 from the number that was there at Q2. So again, we continue to refill the bucket and we think that at that level of north of $900 million obviously gives us very good forward-looking visibility into the next several years of data licensing.

是的。因此，正如我們在第二季末指出的那樣，該數字超過了 9 億美元，到第三季末仍超過 9 億美元。顯然，我們從第二季的數字中認識到第三季的大量收入。因此，我們再次繼續補充這一桶，我們認為超過 9 億美元的水平顯然為我們提供了對未來幾年數據許可的非常好的前瞻性可見性。

In terms of the step-up in Q4, Q4 is historically our largest quarter from a data perspective. Oftentimes, we have projects to kind of follow pharma cycling budgets and so -- our budgeting cycles. And so this is not atypical for us to have a step-up in Q4 on the data licensing side.

就第四季的增幅而言，從數據角度來看，第四季是我們史上增幅最大的季度。通常，我們的專案是遵循製藥週期預算的，所以我們的預算週期。因此，我們在第四季度在數據許可方面取得的進展並不罕見。

Got it. That's helpful. Appreciate the time, guys.

知道了。這很有幫助。珍惜時間，夥計們。

Rachel Vatnsdal, JP Morgan.

雷切爾·瓦特斯達爾，摩根大通。

Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. First up on the core Genomics business, Eric, I believe you mentioned that unit growth accelerated this quarter. So can you break down for us what did volumes grow sequentially? And then can you break that down even further, which test did you see faster uptake out of the portfolio there?

嘿，下午好。感謝您提出問題。首先談到核心基因組學業務，埃里克，我相信您提到本季的單位成長加速。那麼您能否為我們詳細分析一下銷售量的環比成長是多少？然後你能進一步細分一下嗎？

Yes, . So total volume was about 66,500 in Q2, just about 69,000 tests in Q3. We should note that both of those numbers exclude any MRD testing. So the growth that we're seeing quarter-over-quarter coming from our core assays, so xT, xR, xF and then xG growing more quickly, but it's as far base. So most of it coming from xT, xR and xF.

是的， 。因此，第二季的總測試量約為 66,500 次，第三季的測試量約為 69,000 次。我們應該注意到，這兩個數字均不包括任何 MRD 測試。因此，我們看到的季度環比增長來自我們的核心檢測，因此 xT、xR、xF 和 xG 增長得更快，但仍處於基礎水平。所以大部分是來自 xT、xR 和 xF。

Yes. And I think we had kind of foreshadowed last quarter that we did expect to see some additional unit lift in the quarter, and we saw what we expected to always nice to see.

是的。我認為我們在上個季度就已經預示了我們確實預計本季會出現一些額外的單位提升，並且我們看到了我們期望總是很高興看到的情況。

Great. And then just for my follow-up, last quarter, you guys mentioned just around hiring some of the sales force. I believe you added roughly 60 new sales reps in the quarter. And that initially, it just led to lower productivity during the ramp-up period and some of the territory adjustments.

偉大的。然後，就我的後續行動而言，上個季度，你們提到了招募一些銷售人員。我相信您在本季度增加了大約 60 名新銷售代表。最初，它只是導致了成長期間的生產力下降和一些區域調整。

So can you provide an update in terms of current productivity levels of your sales force at this point? And how should we see that trending in terms of the ramp into 4Q and then into next year as well?

那麼，您能否提供有關您的銷售人員目前生產力水平的最新資訊？我們該如何看待第四季和明年的成長趨勢？

Yeah, I can start. So I mean, the sales force is getting certainly more productive every month as they get trained to get up to speed. We have seen historically that it can take six to nine months to get reps in our world, really up to speed. We've got a broad testing compendium, so it takes a little time. And we suspect they'll continue to get more efficient.

是的，我可以開始了。所以我的意思是，隨著銷售人員接受培訓以加快速度，他們的工作效率每個月肯定會提高。我們從歷史上看到，在我們的世界中，可能需要六到九個月的時間才能真正跟上進度。我們有一個廣泛的測試綱要，所以需要一點時間。我們懷疑他們會繼續變得更有效率。

It isn't meaningful for us in the way it might be meaningful for others in that we're metering our investments now. If you look at the business, let's say, three quarters ago, we were generating negative $40 million-plus than last quarter, negative $30 million-plus. Now it's just over negative $21 million of EBITDA. So we're on a consistent monthly trend on our own of getting to adjusted EBITDA positive in the next short period here.

這對我們來說沒有什麼意義，但對其他人來說可能有意義，因為我們現在正在衡量我們的投資。如果你看看業務，比方說，三個季度前，我們的營收比上季負 4,000 萬美元以上，負 3,000 萬美元以上。現在 EBITDA 剛剛負 2100 萬美元。因此，我們的每月趨勢是一致的，即在接下來的短時間內調整後的 EBITDA 為正值。

Let alone the accelerant from Ambry that obviously just pulls that forward a bit. But we're not making such large investments in our sales force that their lack of productivity is kind of causing any financial chaos, not at all. It just might mean that in a given quarter, we might sell 1,000 less reps than we thought or 2,000. And so the growth rate might go from 23% to 25% or 22% to 24%.

更不用說來自 Ambry 的促進劑了，它顯然只是將這一點向前推進了一點。但我們並沒有對銷售團隊進行如此大的投資，以至於他們生產力的缺乏會導致任何財務混亂，根本不會。這可能意味著在某個特定季度，我們銷售的銷售代表可能比我們想像的少 1,000 名或 2,000 名。因此成長率可能從 23% 到 25% 或 22% 到 24%。

So we can explain some of the fluctuations relative to what we had forecast by looking at that productivity, but it isn't really meaningful because this isn't a massive investment for us that's like we've got to get through to be financially healthy wordy on a good path to be held.

因此，我們可以透過查看生產力來解釋相對於我們預測的一些波動，但這並沒有真正意義，因為這對我們來說並不是一項大規模投資，就像我們必須度過難關才能保持財務健康一樣羅嗦上一條好路要舉行。

Michael Ryskin, Bank of America.

麥可‧萊斯金，美國銀行。

Great. Thanks for taking the question, guys. Appreciate the color on Ambry earlier, and congrats on that deal. It seems like the financials are pretty compelling. I want to expand a little bit on your existing relationship as you've touched on in the past, it's -- you've got a relationship with them there with your primary reference lab.

偉大的。謝謝你們提出問題，夥伴們。早些時候欣賞安布里的顏色，並祝賀這筆交易。看起來財務狀況相當引人注目。我想稍微擴展一下你們現有的關係，就像你們過去提到的那樣，你們與他們以及你們的主要參考實驗室建立了關係。

I just want to get a sense of that $300 million in revenue generated -- they generated in -- what you expect to generate this year. How much is sort of going to be incremental, right? I mean what I'm trying to get at is how much of the current business is their relationship with you versus how much is external? Just how should we think about this impact of the model next year?

我只是想了解今年產生的 3 億美元收入——它們產生的收入是多少。增量是多少，對嗎？我的意思是，我想了解的是，目前業務中有多少是他們與您的關係，有多少是外部關係？我們該如何看待明年該模型的影響？

Yes. So I mean, obviously, the vast majority is not overlapping. That said, we don't -- we haven't provided exact numbers of the breakdown between our test. We -- in large part, I mean it wouldn't be that exciting, so but it would just create more questions every like these things move around a bit. And so we've got a pretty broad testing portfolio. So we don't want to be in a habit of every single quarter discussing every single nuance of every single assay.

是的。所以我的意思是，顯然絕大多數都是不重疊的。也就是說，我們沒有——我們沒有提供測試之間故障的確切數字。我們——在很大程度上，我的意思是這不會那麼令人興奮，所以，但它只會產生更多的問題，就像這些事情稍微移動一下一樣。因此，我們擁有相當廣泛的測試組合。因此，我們不想養成每個季度都討論每個分析的每個細微差別的習慣。

But that said, our inherited cancer risk or hereditary screening. It was a newer offering for us. As Jim mentioned a second ago, it's still relatively small in terms of its overall piece of our larger Genomics business. and the vast majority of Ambry's business is not over.

但話雖如此，我們的遺傳性癌症風險或遺傳性篩檢。這對我們來說是一個較新的產品。正如吉姆剛才提到的，就我們更大的基因組業務的整體而言，它仍然相對較小。而Ambry的絕大多數事情還沒結束。

I would also add that the primary call point is in counselors where our testing volume is coming through oncologists. So it's very complementary to what we're doing.

我還想補充一點，主要的呼叫點是諮商師，我們的檢測量是透過腫瘤學家進行的。所以它與我們正在做的事情非常互補。

Okay. All right. And then on -- just going to the Genomics business, 69,000 tests, I think you called out 1,530 ASP, some nice sequential improvement over 2Q and 1Q. Any particular trends to call out in -- on the reimbursement side of things? Any particular payer that came on board or was it just a sort of broad uplift and how to think about that line item going forward? Is this sort of the pace of improvement we should continue to expect?

好的。好的。然後 - 就基因組學業務而言，69,000 次測試，我認為您提出了 1,530 ASP，比第二季和第一季有了一些不錯的連續改進。在報銷方面有什麼特別的趨勢值得指出嗎？是否有任何特定的付款人加入，或者這只是廣泛的提升，以及如何考慮該項目的未來發展？我們應該繼續期待這種改進速度嗎？

Yeah. So from a reimbursement standpoint, we made some progress with commercial payers over the last couple of months. We brought Blue Shield of Illinois, Blue Shield of California, Avalon, kind of all in-network contracts covering all of our therapy selection in inherited cancer panels, so xT, xR,xF,xG,xT+. And so that led to a little bit of incremental kind of quarter-over-quarter improvement.

是的。因此，從報銷的角度來看，過去幾個月我們與商業付款人取得了一些進展。我們帶來了伊利諾伊州的 Blue Shield、加利福尼亞州的 Blue Shield、Avalon，這些都是網絡內合同，涵蓋了我們在遺傳性癌症組中的所有治療選擇，例如 xT、xR、xF、xG、xT+。因此，這導致了季度環比的一點增量改善。

I would say no significant step-up in Q4. ADLT status, that pricing process is still underway. This is a reminder, we're targeting $4,500 a test there for the xT CDx. We'll start migrating volume to that versus the assay in Q1 of '25. So that would be kind of the next kind of meaningful accelerant from a reimbursement standpoint as we move to that version of there.

我想說第四季沒有顯著的提升。 ADLT 狀態，定價過程仍在進行中。謹此提醒，我們的 xT CDx 測試目標價為 4,500 美元。我們將開始將體積遷移到 25 年第一季的測定中。因此，從報銷的角度來看，當我們轉向那個版本時，這將是下一個有意義的促進劑。

Daniel Brennan, TD Cowen.

丹尼爾·布倫南，TD·考恩。

Great, thanks. Thanks for the questions. Maybe just on Ambry, presumably, given your partnership, the deal was not competitive. I just wanted to clarify that or just kind of learn about that in terms of the deal process. And anything you can say about what kind of top line growth you guys are plugging in or we can think about going forward? And are there any synergies associated with this deal?

太好了，謝謝。感謝您的提問。也許只是在安布里，考慮到你們的合作關係，這筆交易沒有競爭力。我只是想澄清這一點，或者只是想了解交易流程。關於你們正在實現什麼樣的營收成長，你們有什麼想說的，或者我們可以考慮繼續前進嗎？這筆交易是否有任何綜效？

Yeah. So I'll cover the first couple. So in terms of a competitive process, Ambry did run a competitive process. They, the -- I think, hired banks and looked at their options. You'd have to kind of dig in -- they're a public company so you can kind of dig into some of their historic comments. But -- and I'm not an expert on Konica Minolta, but I know at one point, they had Ambry plus another business that were bolted together. I think for a period of time, they were looking to sell both and then decided to split it out. So it was a it was a process, but it was a process with twists and turns.

是的。所以我將介紹第一對。所以就競爭過程而言，安布里確實運行了一個競爭過程。我認為，他們聘請了銀行並研究了他們的選擇。你必須深入研究——他們是一家上市公司，所以你可以深入研究他們的一些歷史評論。但是——我不是柯尼卡美能達的專家，但我知道在某一時刻，他們擁有 Ambry 和另一項業務，並把它們結合在一起。我認為有一段時間，他們希望出售兩者，然後決定將其拆分。所以這是一個過程，但這是一個曲折的過程。

We were fortunate that we knew the business well. We were watching it closely. We were interacting with them as a partner and we were able to kind of watch their performance over long horizons of time to really get comfortable that this business was durable, that the economics were going to -- we're improving and that we thought this was going to be a highly synergistic asset for us to acquire under the right terms and in a way that it accelerates our business both in terms of the products we take to market and our journey to get to EBITDA and cash flow positive, which we know are.

我們很幸運，我們非常了解這項業務。我們正在密切關注它。我們作為合作夥伴與他們互動，我們能夠長期觀察他們的表現，真正確信這項業務是持久的，經濟將會——我們正在改善，我們認為這一點對我們來說，以正確的條款收購將是一項高度協同的資產，它可以加速我們的業務，無論是在我們推向市場的產品方面，還是我們實現EBITDA 和正現金流的過程中，我們知道這一點是。

In terms of the top line growth, we've got some slides in the investor deck, you can take a look at the combined business, if we were one company today will be about $1 billion in revenue, and we give a little bit of color, even though we haven't fully built our models for 2025 yet we expect the combined business to grow in the kind of 23% to 25% range. And obviously, the combined business will be adjusted EBITDA and cash flow positive. So we're in a good healthy spot. We're at size and growing and continuing on our mission to bring AI to diagnostics. In terms of synergies.

就營收成長而言，我們在投資者平台上有一些幻燈片，您可以看一下合併後的業務，如果我們是一家公司，今天的收入將約為 10 億美元，我們給出了一點顏色，儘管我們尚未完全建立2025 年的模型，但我們預計合併後的業務將成長23% 至25%。顯然，合併後的業務將調整後的 EBITDA 和現金流為正。所以我們處於一個非常健康的狀態。我們的規模不斷擴大，並持續履行將人工智慧引入診斷的使命。在協同效應方面。

In terms of synergies, we plan on -- it's a well-run business, so we plan on having to operate kind of independently for the near term, but there certainly are some synergies. For example, they don't have a large data business. We have a large data business that we can kind of incorporate Ambry into.

在協同效應方面，我們計劃——這是一項運作良好的業務，因此我們計劃在短期內必須獨立運營，但肯定存在一些協同效應。例如，他們沒有大數據業務。我們有一個大數據業務，我們可以將 Ambry 納入其中。

Additionally, they're largely an in-network provider. So about 95% of their volume is in networks, they've got very good relationships with payers that hopefully we're able to leverage the Tempus side. So while not kind of immediate synergies kind of baked into what we're anticipating. Over time, we think that there's -- it's a very centering asset.

此外，他們主要是網路內提供者。因此，他們大約 95% 的交易量都在網路中，他們與付款人有著非常良好的關係，希望我們能夠利用 Tempus 的優勢。因此，雖然並沒有立即產生協同效應，但它已經融入了我們的預期。隨著時間的推移，我們認為這是一項非常核心的資產。

Got it. Thank you and then maybe just as a follow-up, just on the kind of outlook for the remainder of the year? I think in the press release or maybe in the prepared remarks, you cited the genomics business you expect to kind of stay in that 25% to 30% range and you kind of reiterated the $700 million guide for the year. So is the conclusion that we should be thinking about 25% to 30% Genomics in 4Q and then we can just solve what the remaining data business should be growing at? Or are you guys thinking about something differently by segment for 4Q?

知道了。謝謝您，然後也許只是作為後續行動，談談今年剩餘時間的前景？我認為在新聞稿中或在準備好的發言中，您提到了您預計基因組業務將保持在 25% 到 30% 的範圍內，並且您重申了今年 7 億美元的目標。那麼結論是我們應該在第四季度考慮 25% 到 30% 的 Genomics，然後我們就可以解決剩下的數據業務應該成長的問題嗎？或者你們對第四季的細分市場有不同的想法嗎？

That's probably a question for Liz to take up after this call because I don't think we have a buy segment, a quick snapshot of how I would break down. But certainly, we do expect Genomics to be in that 25% to 30% range, so you can kind of back your way into.

這可能是莉茲在這次電話會議後要回答的問題，因為我認為我們沒有購買部分，也沒有快速說明我將如何崩潰的部分。但當然，我們確實預計 Genomics 會在 25% 到 30% 的範圍內，所以你可以回去。

Yeah, we wouldn't anticipate any significant shift in Q4 of kind of where the businesses have been growing independently.

是的，我們預期第四季不會出現任何業務獨立成長的重大轉變。

Yeah. Although I will say, and we said this, I think, in our letter, you shouldn't expect the Data business to be growing at 87%. I mean it's -- the business is performing super well. But again, we are far more focused on long-term growth in that 25% range as opposed to short-term accelerants that when we lap make the business highly volatile. We want long-term growth given how big the space is and given the unique position we hold in the space as really one of the leading companies bringing AI to health care and bring particular diagnostics.

是的。儘管我會說，而且我們也這麼說過，但我認為，在我們的信中，您不應該期望數據業務會成長 87%。我的意思是──業務表現非常好。但同樣，我們更關注 25% 範圍內的長期成長，而不是短期促進因素，因為短期促進因素會導致業務高度波動。考慮到這個空間有多大，以及我們作為將人工智慧引入醫療保健並帶來特定診斷的真正領先公司之一，我們在該領域所佔據的獨特地位，我們希望實現長期成長。

Ryan MacDonald, Needham.

瑞恩麥克唐納，李約瑟。

Hi, congrats on a great quarter and thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just to start on the data purchasing environment right now. Obviously, some nice notable deals in the quarter. But can you just talk about sort of if you're seeing any changes in sort of how, let's call it, newer customers on the data side might be purchasing or making that initial purchase? And if you're seeing maybe growth or larger initial lands relative to maybe the last six to 12 months, which have been a bit of a harder data buying environment.

您好，恭喜您度過了一個美好的季度，並感謝您回答我的問題。也許現在就開始數據購買環境。顯然，本季有一些不錯的值得注意的交易。但是，如果您看到數據方面的新客戶可能會購買或進行首次購買，我們可以稱之為什麼變化，您能否談談？如果你看到相對於過去 6 到 12 個月的成長或更大的初始土地，這是一個有點困難的資料購買環境。

Yeah. No, I mean, I don't think -- we're certainly seeing continued strong interest in our data products. We've had really big wins this year, lots of good momentum, added lots of big clients to the portfolio. We've talked about some in the last a few quarters, but certainly like BioNTech is a great new win for -- things like that are great new wins for us.

是的。不，我的意思是，我不認為——我們確實看到了人們對我們的數據產品的持續濃厚興趣。今年我們取得了巨大的勝利，勢頭良好，在投資組合中增加了許多大客戶。我們在過去的幾個季度中討論了一些問題，但毫無疑問，BioNTech 是一個偉大的新勝利——這樣的事情對我們來說是偉大的新勝利。

But as I mentioned, there's no question that the overall marketplace doesn't have the same tailwinds that it had a few years ago when capital was flowing more freely. A few years ago, there were just a plethora of biotechs that we're flushed with capital having just gone public or raised around that we're looking to buy data. And now when you talk to biotechs, they're looking to preserve capital because the market just is different.

但正如我所提到的，毫無疑問，整個市場不再像幾年前資本流動更自由時那樣順風順水。幾年前，有大量的生技公司剛上市或籌集資金，我們正在尋求購買數據。現在，當你與生技公司交談時，他們正在尋求保留資本，因為市場不同了。

So, the fact that we're still growing and have this really big backlog, I think, just bodes well for the value that our data products offer the market. And I would suspect as the landscape shifts a bit, we will get some of that tailwind in maybe '25 or '26 as capital becomes a bit more free.

因此，我認為，我們仍在成長並且有如此大的積壓，這一事實對於我們的數據產品為市場提供的價值來說是個好兆頭。我懷疑，隨著情況發生一點變化，隨著資本變得更加自由，我們可能會在 25 年或 26 年獲得一些順風。

But we haven't seen any fundamental shift in patterns. People still in our world, tend to buy a little bit of data and then more and then an even bigger deal. And then our goal ventures to get them into some kind of strategic relationship.

但我們還沒有看到模式發生任何根本性轉變。仍然生活在我們這個世界的人們傾向於購買一點數據，然後購買更多，然後購買更大的交易。然後我們的目標就是讓他們建立某種策略關係。

Really helpful color. Maybe as a follow-up, I recognize it's a small portion of the business today. But within the apps arena, you had recently announced a collaboration with Northwestern Medicine, like on cardiology and think they're utilizing the ECG-AF algo. Can you just talk about a little bit more about that collaboration? And then is this starting to form a pathway of how you think sort of the app segment can start to sort of build the monetization pathway here over time?

真的很有幫助的顏色。也許作為後續行動，我意識到這只是當今業務的一小部分。但在應用程式領域，您最近宣布與西北醫學公司合作，例如在心臟病學方面，並認為他們正在使用 ECG-AF 演算法。能多談談這次合作嗎？那麼，這是否開始形成一條途徑，您認為隨著時間的推移，應用程式細分市場可以如何開始在這裡建立獲利途徑？

Yeah, that's exactly right. I think more and more large medical systems are trying to figure out how to take advantage of this new onslaught of generative AI and large language model capabilities. They recognize that these tools are catalytic for their ability to treat patients, to generate better outcomes. And so they're trying to figure out how to bring that into their practice. And there's very few companies at our scale, with our size that have products in that arena.

是的，完全正確。我認為越來越多的大型醫療系統正在試圖弄清楚如何利用產生人工智慧和大型語言模型功能的新衝擊。他們認識到這些工具可以促進他們治療患者、產生更好結果的能力。因此，他們正在嘗試找出如何將其應用到實踐中。在我們這樣的規模和規模下，很少有公司擁有該領域的產品。

And so we are fortunate to have really deep relationships with some of the best medical centers in the world, Northwestern being one. And we're all trying to figure out the best way to get these models deployed.

因此，我們很幸運能夠與世界上一些最好的醫療中心建立深厚的關係，而西北大學就是其中之一。我們都在努力找出部署這些模型的最佳方法。

What's interesting, and I think I've said this now a few quarters in a row, I would suspect that these models will be -- first of all, in our world already are deployed at scale. But I would suspect over the coming years, they'll be deployed at really tremendous scale. And you'll have an enormous number of people actually availing cells of these algorithmic diagnostics.

有趣的是，我想我已經連續幾個季度這麼說了，我懷疑這些模型將——首先，在我們的世界中已經大規模部署。但我懷疑在未來幾年，它們將得到非常大規模的部署。並且將會有大量的人實際利用這些演算法診斷的單元。

That said, it may not be a lot of revenue, like you could have millions of people that are benefiting in some way from these things without generating lots of revenue because we still haven't figured out, at least in the US, how to appropriately pay for the benefit of these purely algorithmic diagnostics.

也就是說，它可能不會有很多收入，就像你可能有數百萬人以某種方式從這些事情中受益，但沒有產生大量收入，因為我們仍然沒有弄清楚，至少在美國，如何為這些純粹演算法診斷的好處付出適當的代價。

So one of the things we spend a lot of time thinking about is how do we eventually demonstrate to Medicare and Medicaid and other commercial payers that these things add value, they save money, they improve outcomes, they improve longevity and they should be reimbursed. And I think the big watershed moment for the business side of our applications is going to be when they do get reimbursed.

因此，我們花費大量時間思考的一件事是，我們最終如何向醫療保險和醫療補助以及其他商業付款人證明這些東西可以增加價值，它們可以省錢，可以改善結果，可以延長壽命，並且應該得到報銷。我認為我們應用程式業務方面的重大分水嶺將是當它們確實得到報銷時。

Andrew Brackmann, William Blair.

安德魯·布拉克曼，威廉·布萊爾。

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Maybe just to start on Ambry. In the deck, you sort of called out the health system relationships that this can further along for you guys. So maybe just at a high level, can you just sort of talk about how this acquisition to maybe accelerate or grow some of those partnerships, just essentially, how does this better help you become sort of the provider -- the go-to provider for those groups?

你好。午安.感謝您提出問題。也許只是從安布里開始。在甲板上，您提到了衛生系統的關係，這可以為您帶來進一步的發展。因此，也許只是在較高的層面上，您能否談談這次收購如何加速或發展其中一些合作夥伴關係，本質上，這如何更好地幫助您成為某種提供者——首選提供者那些團體？

Yes. So I think in terms of the relationships that Ambry has on the payer side, they obviously are primarily an in-network lab. We're primarily out of network lab. So in some of those discussions, they've got a lot of history in dealing with the commercial payers.

是的。因此，我認為就 Ambry 與付款方的關係而言，他們顯然主要是一個網路內實驗室。我們主要是在網路實驗室之外。因此，在其中一些討論中，他們在與商業付款人打交道方面擁有豐富的歷史。

And then on the health system side, as I mentioned before, they're primary call point is genetic counselors or we're primarily dealing with oncologists. So again, just deepening those relationships with across kind of the entire ecosystem on the provider side, we believe we'll kind of strengthen our position with the hospitals.

然後在衛生系統方面，正如我之前提到的，他們的主要呼叫點是遺傳諮詢師，或者我們主要與腫瘤學家打交道。因此，只要加深與提供者整個生態系統的關係，我們相信我們將加強我們與醫院的地位。

Yes. I mean, a good example, I was at two very large academic medical centers, NCI Cancer Center this morning. And both centers were there like precision medicine inter-departments and their cancer center. -- you had a cancer center. And both groups are responsible for hereditary screening of the cancer patients, therapy selection, genomic profiling of those patients and now obviously, MRD and monitoring.

是的。我的意思是，一個很好的例子，今天早上我在兩個非常大的學術醫療中心，即 NCI 癌症中心。這兩個中心就像跨部門的精準醫學及其癌症中心一樣。 ——你們有一個癌症中心。兩個小組都負責癌症患者的遺傳篩檢、治療選擇、這些患者的基因組分析，現在顯然還負責 MRD 和監測。

So it's not like they have different groups, right? Words like, Oh, you want to do here screening, it goes over there. It's the same group of people that are trying to figure out how to bring precision medicines in their cancer patients that think about Ambry and I think about Tempus.

所以他們並不是有不同的群體，對吧？像這樣的話，哦，你想在這裡進行篩選，它就在那裡。正是同一群人在試圖弄清楚如何為癌症患者提供精準藥物，他們想到了 Ambry，而我想到了 Tempus。

And so we're both highly, I think, synergistic in that regard. And all the folks that we talk to typically are looking for vendors that can help them in a more comprehensive manner. The general trend is can I work with fewer people that can help me in a more integrated manner end-to-end comprehensively as opposed to having lots and lots and lots of very small sequencing providers. And so we think this just strengthens our overall platform.

因此，我認為我們在這方面具有高度的協同作用。我們交談過的所有人員通常都在尋找能夠以更全面的方式幫助他們的供應商。總的趨勢是，我是否可以與更少的人合作，以更整合的方式端到端地全面幫助我，而不是擁有很多很多非常小的測序提供者。因此，我們認為這只會增強我們的整體平台。

Great. And then I want to go back to one of your answers to a question earlier on sort of profitability. So how should we sort of be thinking about you balancing investments with this march towards profitability going forward? Does this acquisition sort of change any of that philosophy? Or should we still sort of expect continue to march forward?

偉大的。然後我想回到您之前對盈利能力問題的回答之一。那麼，我們該如何考慮您在投資與未來獲利之間的平衡呢？這次收購是否會改變這種理念？或者我們還應該期待繼續前進嗎？

I mean, so we told when we went public, which was just five months ago, we told we told folks that we were on a disciplined path to get to EBITDA positive that we wouldn't -- that we were looking to basically take the gross profit dollar growth we were generating and produced some leverage so that our losses were declining instead of what some other folks in our space have done, which is either kind of just maintain high loss levels or actually go the other way and invest more.

我的意思是，所以我們在上市時告訴人們，就在五個月前，我們告訴人們，我們正在走一條嚴格的道路，以實現EBITDA 為正值，但我們不會這樣做——我們基本上上希望採取我們產生的毛利美元增長並產生了一定的槓桿作用，因此我們的損失正在下降，而不是像我們領域的其他人所做的那樣，這要么只是維持高損失水平，要么實際上是反其道而行之，加大投資。

We felt that was prudent given that we're going to turn 10 next year, and we just thought given our size and scale being sustainable and not burning money was an important milestone. We haven't yet determined how we want to harvest profits.

考慮到我們明年將迎來 10 歲生日，我們認為這是謹慎的做法，考慮到我們的規模和規模是可持續的，而且不燒錢，這是一個重要的里程碑。我們還沒有確定如何獲取利潤。

So I think what I can safely say is, especially with this acquisition, we've crossed that hurdle. We've kind of checked that box. We're now on an annualized basis, an EBITDA positive, cash flow positive sustainable business, but we need to think a little bit about how we want to harvest the EBITDA we're going to generate relative to invest in the future, -- and I wouldn't -- I don't -- I think we're more focused in the next several years on making sure we can sustain our growth rate, not trying to generate an extra $50 million of EBITDA in a given year. So I think you'll -- I think, see us make those trade-offs but we're still disciplined and we want to run a good business. And so I think, hopefully, we'll find the right balance.

所以我認為我可以有把握地說，特別是透過這次收購，我們已經跨越了這個障礙。我們已經勾選了這個框。我們現在按年化計算，是一個 EBITDA 為正、現金流為正的可持續業務，但我們需要稍微考慮一下我們希望如何收穫相對於未來投資而言的 EBITDA，——我不會——我不會－我認為我們在接下來的幾年裡會更專注於確保我們能夠維持我們的成長率，而不是試圖在某一年額外產生5000 萬美元的EBITDA。所以我認為你會看到我們做出這些權衡，但我們仍然遵守紀律，我們希望經營一個好的企業。所以我認為，希望我們能找到適當的平衡。

David Westenberg, Piper Sandler.

大衛‧韋斯特伯格，派珀‧桑德勒。

Hi, thanks for taking the question. This is John on for Dave. First of all, I just wanted to ask, there's been some issues between Myriad Genetics and United recently on getting reimbursement for GeneSight. Do you have any thoughts on how the industry might see reimbursement playing out in the psychiatric conditions and pharmacogenomics going forward?

您好，感謝您提出問題。這是約翰替戴夫發言。首先，我只是想問一下，Myriad Genetics 和 United 最近在獲得 GeneSight 報銷方面存在一些問題。您對產業如何看待未來精神疾病和藥物基因組學的報銷有何想法？

Yeah, more than I have say that one. So our neuropsych business is relatively small and so any kind of disruption in reimbursement there has a very significant impact on our overall kind of growth rate. As far as kind of where it plays out longer term, obviously, this news came out last week. So it remains to be seen kind of how other payers will react to it and all that, but a very minimal impact on our business.

是的，比我說的還要多。因此，我們的神經心理學業務相對較小，因此任何形式的報銷中斷都會對我們的整體成長率產生非常重大的影響。顯然，就長期而言，這一消息是上週發布的。因此，其他付款人對此有何反應還有待觀察，但對我們業務的影響非常小。

Got it. And just secondly, there's also been a lot of talk about billing for transcriptomics and for genomics. So I just want to ask this question in kind of a different way. Can you just talk about how your CGP test provides some different value relative to competitors? And is your billing out of whack with the value that you think it provides?

知道了。其次，關於轉錄組學和基因組學的計費也有很多討論。所以我只是想以不同的方式問這個問題。您能否談談您的 CGP 測試如何提供與競爭對手不同的價值？您的帳單是否與您認為它提供的價值不符？

I mean, okay, first of all, no, our billing -- we don't think our billing is out of whack. We don't set the billing rates. The billing rates are set by -- in the case Medicaid by CMS and by our local MAX as part of their process. And so we've got -- we avail ourselves with billing rates both in MolDx and NGS. We're actually in 2 MAXs. So our blended rate of $1,530 for all of our tests has some tests paid at x amount and some test paid at y amount. And at the end of the day, we follow AMA codes, we follow the reimbursement pathways that are set by our MAX and then we follow whatever the payers are locally paying.

我的意思是，好吧，首先，不，我們的賬單——我們不認為我們的賬單不正常。我們不設定計費費率。計費費率由 CMS 和我們當地的 MAX 制定，作為其流程的一部分。因此，我們利用 MolDx 和 NGS 的計費費率。我們實際上處於 2 MAX 狀態。因此，我們所有測試的混合費率為 1,530 美元，其中一些測試按 x 金額支付，另一些測試按 y 金額支付。最終，我們遵循 AMA 代碼，遵循 MAX 設定的報銷途徑，然後遵循付款人在當地支付的任何費用。

So for example, in the case of Jim mentioned that we just signed like Blue Cross and Blue Shield in Illinois and in California, those folks are paying some slightly discounted rate to Medicare for both our DNA test. Same thing for our RNA test and same thing for our liquid test.

例如，吉姆提到我們剛剛在伊利諾伊州和加利福尼亞州簽署了 Blue Cross 和 Blue Shield 協議，這些人為我們的 DNA 測試向 Medicare 支付了一些稍微折扣的費用。我們的 RNA 測試也是如此，我們的液體測試也是如此。

So now, I mean, many, many, many times -- many independent times. We've had independent MAX and commercial payers look at our DNA tests, our RNA tests, our liquid test and established rates, and those rigs have all kind of coalesced around the same place.

所以現在，我的意思是，很多很多很多次──很多獨立的次數。我們已經讓獨立的 MAX 和商業付款人查看我們的 DNA 測試、RNA 測試、液體測試和既定費率，而這些設備都集中在同一個地方。

So we don't suspect anything will change with that. We think that's pretty well established. We do expect that our rates on our DNA test will go up a bit with our ADLT status, we don't know what that's going to be and we have long taken the approach of not committing to or forecasting ASP gains until they arrive.

所以我們不懷疑任何事情都會因此而改變。我們認為這是相當成熟的。我們確實預計我們的 DNA 測試率會隨著我們的 ADLT 狀態而有所上升，我們不知道那會是什麼，而且我們長期以來採取的方法是在 ASP 增長到來之前不承諾或預測它們。

So if you look at this year, we kind of said, hey, we're around $1,400, and that's what we can see and now we're at $1,530. But we don't say we're $1,530, and then we can see $1,700. We just kind of look at it and say -- Hey, we're fortunate that we've got a high margin and a profitable business at this juncture. And if there's ASP lift, that's great. But we don't control it and it all has to be independently ascertained. And so I think time and time again, it has been.

因此，如果你看看今年，我們會說，嘿，我們的價格約為 1,400 美元，這就是我們可以看到的，現在我們的價格為 1,530 美元。但我們不會說我們是 1,530 美元，然後我們可以看到 1,700 美元。我們只是看著它然後說——嘿，我們很幸運，在這個時刻我們擁有高利潤和盈利的業務。如果平均售價有所提升，那就太好了。但我們無法控制它，這一切都必須獨立確定。所以我一次又一次地認為，事實確實如此。

We have no further questions at this time. With that, we will conclude today's conference call. Thank you all for your participation. You may now disconnect.

目前我們沒有進一步的問題。至此，我們將結束今天的電話會議。感謝大家的參與。您現在可以斷開連線。