Stevanato Group SpA (STVN) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. This is the Chorus Call conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Stevanato Group third quarter 2024 earnings call. (Operator Instructions)

午安.我是 Chorus Call 會議接線員。歡迎並感謝您參加 Stevanato Group 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Ms. Lisa Miles, Senior Vice President and Investor Relations. Please go ahead madam.

現在，我想將會議交給高級副總裁和投資者關係麗莎·邁爾斯女士。請繼續，女士。

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. With me today is Franco Stevanato, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; and Marco Dal Lago, Chief Financial Officer.

早安，感謝您加入我們。今天與我在一起的是董事長兼執行長 Franco Stevanato；以及財務長 Marco Dal Lago。

You can find a presentation to accompany today's results on the investor relations page of our website which can be found under the financial results tab. As a reminder, some statements being made today will be forward-looking in nature and are only predictions.

您可以在我們網站的投資者關係頁面上的財務結果標籤下找到與今天的結果相關的簡報。提醒一下，今天發表的一些聲明本質上是前瞻性的，僅是預測。

Actual events and results may differ materially as a result of the risks we face including those discussed in item 3D entitled Risk Factors in the company's most recent annual report on Form 20-F filed with the SEC on March 7, 2024.

由於我們所面臨的風險，包括公司於 2024 年 3 月 7 日向美國證券交易委員會提交的 20-F 表最新年度報告中第 3D 項「風險因素」中討論的風險，實際事件和結果可能會存在重大差異。

Please read our Safe Harbor statement included in the front of the presentation and in today's press release. The company does not assume any obligation to revise or update these forward-looking statements to reflect subsequent events or circumstances, except as required by law.

請閱讀簡報前面和今天的新聞稿中所附的安全港聲明。除法律要求外，本公司不承擔修改或更新這些前瞻性陳述以反映後續事件或情況的任何義務。

Today's presentation may contain non-GAAP financial information. Management uses this information in its internal analysis of results and believes this information may be informative to investors in gauging the quality of our financial performance, identifying trends in our results and providing meaningful period to period comparisons. For reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures, please see the company's most recent earnings press release.

今天的演示可能包含非 GAAP 財務資訊。管理層在內部結果分析中使用這些信息，並相信這些信息可以幫助投資者衡量我們財務業績的品質、確定我們結果的趨勢並提供有意義的期間比較。有關這些非公認會計準則指標的調節，請參閱該公司最新的收益新聞稿。

And with that, I will now hand the call over to Franco Stevanato.

現在我將把電話交給 Franco Stevanato。

Thank you Lisa, and thanks everyone for joining us. Today, we will review our third quarter performance, provide an update on market dynamics and discuss the ongoing initiatives to meet our objectives. For the third quarter revenue was in line but margins were below our expectations.

謝謝麗莎，也謝謝大家的加入我們。今天，我們將回顧第三季的業績，更新市場動態，並討論為實現目標而採取的持續措施。第三季的營收符合預期，但利潤率低於我們的預期。

As a result, we are lowering our full year 2024 guidance for adjusted EBITDA and adjusted diluted EPS. The main factors are higher costs in the engineer segment as we implement our optimization plan. And to a lesser extent, higher costs in the US as we increase our validation activities.

因此，我們下調了 2024 年全年調整後 EBITDA 和調整後攤薄 EPS 的預期。主要因素是我們實施最佳化計畫時工程師部門的成本增加。在較小程度上，隨著我們增加驗證活動，美國的成本也會增加。

Let's start with engineering. We are starting to see some initial benefits from the actions we have recently taken to improve execution and business performance.

讓我們從工程開始。我們開始看到最近為改善執行力和業務績效而採取的行動取得了一些初步成效。

While it's still early days, we have successfully completed several complex projects in the third quarter for key customers that were previously delayed.

雖然還處於早期階段，但我們已在第三季為主要客戶成功完成了之前被推遲的幾個複雜項目。

As a reminder, we launched a business optimization plan designed to address the current challenges, improve the overall health of the business and position the segment to return to profitable growth.

提醒一下，我們啟動了一項業務優化計劃，旨在應對當前的挑戰，改善業務整體健康狀況，並使該部門恢復盈利增長。

The main steps we are taking are focused on optimizing our engineering footprint in alignment with our product strategy, right-sizing the operational structure as we move some activities to Italy and harmonizing our industrial processes. Together, we believe this action will lead to an improved operational structure that can drive both cost savings and gains in productivity.

我們採取的主要措施是重點優化我們的工程足跡以配合我們的產品策略、在我們將一些活動轉移到義大利時調整營運結構並協調我們的工業流程。我們相信，這項措施將改善營運結構，從而節省成本並提高生產力。

Above all, we remain confident that this will position the segment for long term success. We believe that the demand landscape for the engineering segment remains favorable. Underpinned by long term tailwinds such as the rise in biologics and the adoption of drug delivery devices, high regulatory standards like Annex One and the trend towards ready-to-use systems.

最重要的是，我們仍然相信這將為該領域帶來長期成功。我們相信工程領域的需求前景仍然良好。受到生物製劑的興起和藥物輸送裝置的採用、附件一等高監管標準以及即用型系統的趨勢等長期順風因素的支撐。

Let's turn to Vial destocking, which remains top of mind for many investors. Our thoughts on the recovery remain the same. We still expect to see Vial orders begin to pick up at the end of this year, with a gradual recovery in 2025. We continue to see positive signals in the market and during the third quarter, collaboration with our customers are reaffirmed our view.

讓我們來談談 Vial 去庫存問題，這仍然是許多投資者最關心的問題。我們對復甦的想法保持不變。我們仍預計小瓶訂單將在今年底開始回升，並在 2025 年逐步恢復。我們繼續看到市場上的正面訊號，並且在第三季度，與客戶的合作再次證實了我們的觀點。

Nevertheless, market dynamics are such that customers are working down inventories at different rates. Despite the current weakness in bias, we continue to see strong demand for our high value solutions which grew 18% year-to-date compared with last year.

然而，市場動態是這樣的，客戶以不同的速度減少庫存。儘管目前偏見較弱，但我們仍然看到對高價值解決方案的強勁需求，與去年相比，今年迄今成長了 18%。

The continued momentum in biologics and the increasing trend towards high-performance primary packaging reinforces our investment strategies as we spend our capacity for high value solutions to match this customer demand.

生物製劑的持續發展勢頭和高性能初級包裝的日益增長趨勢強化了我們的投資策略，因為我們投入了我們的產能來提供高價值解決方案以滿足客戶的需求。

Moving to our capacity expansion projects on slide 6. We continue to make relevant progress on the multi ramp up of our expansion projects in Fishers and Latina.

轉到第 6 張投影片上的產能擴張專案。我們繼續在費雪斯和拉蒂納的擴建項目的多方合作中取得相關進展。

In both facilities, the go installation of manufacturing lines and the customer validation are planned to be phased throughout 2025 and into 2026. In features, we achieved a major milestone in the third quarter with the successful launch of commercial production generating our first commercial revenue. During the quarter, we completed the installation of our second high speed manufacturing line.

這兩個工廠的生產線安裝和客戶驗證計劃於 2025 年至 2026 年分階段完成。在影片方面，我們在第三季取得了一個重要的里程碑，成功啟動了商業製作並創造了第一筆商業收入。本季度，我們完成了第二條高速生產線的安裝。

We also started validation activities with several key customers which are expected to continue for the rest of the year.

我們也與幾家主要客戶開始了驗證活動，預計這些活動將在今年剩餘時間繼續進行。

In Latina. We are scaling production, improving utilization and beginning to gain efficiencies. And in the third quarter, the Latina project became profitable at the gross profit level. Marco will provide more details later on.

在拉丁裔。我們正在擴大生產規模、提高利用率並開始提高效率。並且在第三季度，拉蒂納計畫在毛利層面已經獲利。Marco 稍後將提供更多詳細資訊。

Turning to slide 7, we recently announced the launch of the Alliance for RTU, together with other industry players. It has generated a lot of interest across the industry from customers to other industry stakeholders.

第 7 頁，我們最近與其他產業參與者共同宣布成立 RTU 聯盟。它引起了整個行業從客戶到其他行業利益相關者的極大興趣。

The purpose of this initiative is to educate the pharmaceutical industry as customers consider a transition to sterilize vials and cartridges. Over the last 30 years, the syringe market has converted mostly to sterilized solutions. We believe that customers will continue to adopt ready to use vials and cartridges solutions, replicating what we saw in the syringe market.

該計劃的目的是當客戶考慮過渡到對藥瓶和藥筒進行消毒時，對製藥業進行教育。在過去的 30 年裡，注射器市場已基本轉向無菌解決方案。我們相信客戶將繼續採用即用型小瓶和藥筒解決方案，複製我們在註射器市場看到的情況。

RTU solutions meet the growing industry demand for greater efficiency, faster production times and enhance product quality by simplifying the feeding process and reducing contamination risks. Furthermore, a shift to reduce products can facilitate compliance with Annex One.

RTU 解決方案透過簡化進料流程和降低污染風險，滿足了產業對更高效率、更快生產時間和提高產品品質日益增長的需求。此外，減少產品可以促進遵守附件一。

We are supporting customers through the assessment and decision making process with scientific research through symposiums, webinars, and white papers.

我們透過研討會、網路研討會和白皮書等方式，利用科學研究為客戶提供評估和決策過程支援。

We continue to make tangible progress on our wider high value solutions portfolio. We recently won a strategic supply agreement to support the first needle-free epinephrine nasal spray that recently received FDA approval. Under the agreement, we will produce our premium micro vials using the neffy device.

我們在更廣泛的高價值解決方案組合方面繼續取得實際進展。我們最近贏得了一項戰略供應協議，以支持最近獲得 FDA 批准的首個無針腎上腺素鼻噴霧劑。根據協議，我們將使用 neffy 設備生產優質微型瓶。

In summary, we are making good progress and we remain focused on execution. Our growth investments are ramping. Latina was profitable in the third quarter and Fishers started generating commercial revenue. In Engineering, we are executing our optimization plan and completed several of the previously opened projects in the quarter.

總而言之，我們正在取得良好進展，並且我們仍然專注於執行。我們的成長投資正在不斷增加。拉蒂納在第三季實現盈利，費雪也開始產生商業收入。在工程方面，我們正在執行最佳化計劃，並在本季度完成了幾個先前啟動的專案。

And while the effects of while the stocking are expected to gradually improve throughout 2025 we are starting to see some stabilization in bio demand as customers work down inventories, I now hand the call over to Marco.

雖然預計備貨效果將在 2025 年逐漸改善，但隨著客戶減少庫存，我們開始看到生物需求有所穩定，現在我將電話交給 Marco。

Thanks, Franco. Before I begin, I want to clarify that all comparisons refer to the third quarter of 2023 unless otherwise specified.

謝謝，佛朗哥。在開始之前，我想澄清一下，除非另有說明，所有比較均指 2023 年第三季。

Starting on page 9. For the third quarter of 2024 revenue grew 2% and 3% on a constant currency basis to EUR277.9 million. Driven by 6% growth in the biopharmaceutical and diagnostic solutions segment which offset the expected decline in the engineering segment.

從第 9 頁開始。2024 年第三季的營收以固定匯率計算成長 2% 和 3%，達到 2.779 億歐元。受生物製藥和診斷解決方案部門 6% 成長的推動，抵消了工程部門預期的下滑。

Revenue from high value solutions grew 17% driven by high value syringes and to a lesser extent, other product categories. High value solutions represented approximately 36% of total revenue in the quarter versus 32% last year.

高價值解決方案的收入成長了 17%，這主要得益於高價值注射器的推動，其他產品類別的推動作用也較小。高價值解決方案佔本季總營收的約 36%，去年同期為 32%。

We are currently forecasting a strong for quarter for high value solutions. So for the full year 2024, we now expect that high value solutions will represent approximately 37% to 39% of total revenue, that shows our prior estimation of 36% to 39%.

我們目前預測本季高價值解決方案將表現強勁。因此，對於 2024 年全年，我們現在預計高價值解決方案將佔總收入的約 37% 至 39%，這與我們先前的 36% 至 39% 的估計相符。

The gross profit margin decreased to 26.8% in the third quarter of 2024, due to the ongoing temporary impact from vial de-stocking including underutilization of vial lines as well as lower revenue for more accretive EZ-fill vials. Inefficiencies and higher costs tied to the ramp up in fish Indiana as we scale our validation activities and higher cost in engineering.

2024 年第三季度，毛利率下降至 26.8%，原因是藥瓶去庫存帶來的持續暫時影響，包括藥瓶生產線利用不足以及更具增值的 EZ-fill 藥瓶收入降低。隨著我們擴大驗證活動規模和工程成本的提高，印第安納州魚類產量上升，導致效率低下和成本上升。

For the third quarter, lower gross profit led to a decline in operating profit margin to 14.8%. On an adjusted basis, operating profit margin was 16.3%. For the third quarter of 2024, net profit totaled EUR30 million and diluted earnings per share were EUR0.11.

第三季度，毛利下降導致營業利益率下降至14.8%。經調整後，營業利益率為16.3%。2024年第三季度，淨利總計3,000萬歐元，每股稀釋收益為0.11歐元。

On an adjusted basis, net profit was EUR33.1 million and adjusted diluted EPS were EUR0.12. Adjusted EBITDA was EUR63.7 million and adjusted margin was 22.9%.

經調整後，淨利為3,310萬歐元，調整後稀釋每股收益為0.12歐元。調整後的 EBITDA 為 6,370 萬歐元，調整後的利潤率為 22.9%。

Please turn to slide 10. Before we review segment results, we thought it would be useful to dive deeper into the temporary inefficiencies that we typically experience during the startup phase of a new manufacturing site. Their impact on margins and the expected gross profit trajectory.

請翻到第 10 張投影片。在回顧分部績效之前，我們認為有必要更深入研究在新製造基地啟動階段通常會遇到的暫時效率低下問題。它們對利潤率和預期毛利走勢的影響。

This light illustrates the timing and phasing tied to a new manufacturing plant, as an example. For the new brownfield site in Latina, we acquired a building in Q1 2022. We started generating revenue from commercial production in Q4, 2023.

作為範例，此燈說明了與新製造工廠相關的時間和分階段。對於拉蒂納的新棕地場地，我們在 2022 年第一季收購了一棟建築。我們將於 2023 年第四季開始透過商業生產創造收入。

As Franco noted, in the third quarter of 2024 the site was a slightly positive contributor to the Group's margin. The current temporary inefficiencies that we are experiencing reflect the under absorption of expenses in the early phase of the project as well as the ongoing activities to support the multi-year capacity ramp up.

正如弗朗哥所指出的，2024 年第三季度，該網站對集團的利潤率貢獻了略微的積極貢獻。我們目前遇到的暫時效率低下現象反映了計畫早期階段的費用吸收不足以及支持多年產能提升的持續活動。

But as production capacity, productivity and revenue progressively increase we expect that favorable impacts will gradually abate, and we will benefit from higher utilization, better product mix and scale.

但隨著生產能力、生產力和收入的逐步提高，我們預期有利影響將逐漸消退，我們將受益於更高的利用率、更好的產品結構和規模。

Let's review segment results on page 11. For the third quarter of 2024, BDS segment revenue grew 6% and 7% on a constant currency basis to EUR233 million driven predominantly by growth in high value syringes and to a lesser extent other products. Top line growth of 6% was offset by a revenue decline of approximately 38% related to vials. And the drop was more pronounced in EZ-fill vials.

讓我們回顧一下第 11 頁的片段結果。2024 年第三季度，BDS 部門營收以固定匯率計算成長 6% 和 7%，達到 2.33 億歐元，主要得益於高價值注射器的成長以及較小程度其他產品的成長。6% 的營業收入成長被與小瓶相關的約 38% 的收入下降所抵消。EZ-fill 小瓶的下降更為明顯。

Revenue from high value solutions grew 17% to EUR100.4 million in the third quarter. While revenue from other containment and delivery solutions was EUR132.6 million and consistent with the prior year period. Gross profit margin for the BDS segment was tampered by. The ongoing effects of vial de-stocking including lower revenue for more accretive EZ-fill vials, underutilization and the under absorption of overhead costs and start up inefficiencies and some higher cost in features.

第三季高價值解決方案營收成長 17%，達到 1.004 億歐元。而來自其他遏制和交付解決方案的收入為1.326億歐元，與去年同期持平。BDS部門的毛利率被竄改。藥瓶去庫存的持續影響包括更具增值的 EZ-fill 藥瓶的收入降低、利用率不足、間接成本吸收不足、啟動效率低下以及某些功能成本較高。

As a result, gross profit margin for the BDS segment decreased to 28%. And operating profit margin declined to 16.9% for the third quarter of 2024, compared with the same period last year. For the third quarter of 2024 revenue from the engineering side may decrease 15% to EUR44.8 million. Performance in the business was mixed with expected revenue declines in glass conversion and visual inspection or setting growth in assembly and packaging.

因此，BDS部門的毛利率下降至28%。2024年第三季的營業利潤率與去年同期相比下降至16.9%。2024年第三季工程方面的營收可能下降15%至4,480萬歐元。該業務的表現好壞參半，預計玻璃加工和視覺檢測的收入會下降，或者裝配和包裝的收入將會成長。

Gross profit margin decreased to 15.6% and operating profit margin declined to 10.1% for the third quarter. The decrease in margin was driven by higher costs related to certain highly complex projects, and expenses tied to our business optimization plan.

第三季毛利率下降至15.6%，營業利益率下降至10.1%。利潤率下降是由於某些高度複雜的項目相關的成本增加，以及與我們的業務優化計劃相關的費用。

As Franco noted we are making progress with our optimization plan but it will continue to take some time. We believe we have set the path for continued operational and financial improvement. Which we expect will better position the segment to capture and execute future opportunities.

正如佛朗哥所說，我們的優化計劃正在取得進展，但這還需要一些時間。我們相信，我們已經為持續的營運和財務改善鋪平了道路。我們預計此舉將使該部門處於更有利的位置，以抓住和把握未來的機會。

Please turn to the next slide for a review of balance sheet and cash flow items. We continue to carefully manage trade, working capital to support the growth of our business. As on September 30, inventory levels were higher compared to December 31, 2023.

請翻到下一張投影片來查看資產負債表和現金流量項目。我們繼續精心管理貿易和營運資金，以支持業務成長。截至 9 月 30 日，庫存水準高於 2023 年 12 月 31 日。

While contract taxes decreased in part due to the advancement of projects in the engineering segment. We ended the third quarter with cash and cash equivalents of EUR78 million, and net debt of EUR284.3 million. Through a combination of our cash on hand available credit lines, cash generated from operations and our ability to access additional financing, we believe that we have available liquidity to fund our strategic and operational priorities over the next 12 months.

合約稅減少，部分是由於工程部門專案的進度。截至第三季度，我們的現金和現金等價物為 7,800 萬歐元，淨債務為 2.843 億歐元。透過結合我們庫存現金、可用信用額度、經營活動產生的現金以及獲取額外融資的能力，我們相信我們有足夠的流動資金來為未來 12 個月的策略和營運重點提供資金。

As expected, capital expenditures for the third quarter of 2024 total EUR58.8 million as we continue to ramp up in Latina and Fishers to meet market demand. In the third quarter of 2024 net cash from operating activities totaled EUR18.3 million. Cash use in the purchase of property, plant equipment and intangible assets was EUR47.8 million.

正如預期的那樣，由於我們將繼續加大在拉蒂納和費雪地區的產能以滿足市場需求，2024 年第三季的資本支出總計 5,880 萬歐元。2024 年第三季度，經營活動淨現金總額為 1,830 萬歐元。用於購買物業、廠房設備及無形資產的現金為4,780萬歐元。

This resulted in a negative free cash flow of EUR28.4 million in the third quarter. Lastly, on slide 13 guidance, we are maintaining our revenue guidance for 2024 but lowering our outlook for adjusted EBITDA and adjusted diluted EPS.

這導致第三季自由現金流為負2840萬歐元。最後，在第 13 頁的指引中，我們維持 2024 年的營收指引，但下調了調整後的 EBITDA 和調整後的稀釋每股盈餘的預期。

As Franco mentioned, our guidance now includes additional costs with the actions that are underway with our engineering optimization plan. And to a lesser extent, higher costs as we increase our validation activities in the US.

正如 Franco 所提到的，我們的指導現在包括了我們正在進行的工程優化計劃所產生的額外成本。在較小程度上，隨著我們在美國增加驗證活動，成本也會增加。

For fiscal 2024 we still expect revenue in the range of [1.090 billion], [1.110 billion]. And we now expect adjusted EBITDA in the range of EUR257 million to EUR263 million and adjusted diluted EPS in the range of EUR0.47 to EUR0.49. As we consider 2025, our thoughts remain unchanged and we remain cautious in the near term.

對於 2024 財年，我們仍預期營收在[10.90億]，[11.10億]。我們現在預計調整後的 EBITDA 在 2.57 億歐元至 2.63 億歐元之間，調整後的稀釋每股收益在 0.47 歐元至 0.49 歐元之間。當我們展望 2025 年時，我們的想法保持不變，我們對短期內仍保持謹慎。

We still expect that the pace of recovery in bulk and EZ-fill vials will be the largest swing factor in the level of growth next year.

我們仍然預計，散裝和 EZ-fill 小瓶的復甦速度將成為明年成長水準的最大影響因素。

That said we also continue to see strong demand particularly for high performance syringes and other product categories such as cartridges, IVD and BDS. We also anticipate improvement in the engineering segment alongside the implementation of our optimization plan. As always, we intend to provide formal guidance in March.

儘管如此，我們也持續看到強勁的需求，特別是對高性能注射器和其他產品類別，如藥筒、IVD 和 BDS。我們也預計，隨著優化計畫的實施，工程部門也會得到改善。像往常一樣，我們打算在三月提供正式指導。

Thank you. I will lend the call back to Franco.

謝謝。我會把電話轉給佛朗哥。

Thank you, Marco. In closing, while 2024 has presented many challenges. We are focused on execution and achieving our long term objectives. We operate in growing end markets with favorable secular tailwinds and we have several reasons to be confident in our strategic direction.

謝謝你，馬可。最後，2024 年面臨許多挑戰。我們專注於執行並實現我們的長期目標。我們在不斷成長的終端市場中運營，並擁有良好的長期順風，我們有幾個理由對我們的策略方向充滿信心。

First, we continue to deliver organic growth driven by high value solutions. The main pillar of a long range construct, we are investing in the right areas to meet growing customer demand.

首先，我們繼續實現由高價值解決方案驅動的有機成長。作為長期建設的主要支柱，我們正在投資正確的領域以滿足日益增長的客戶需求。

Second, we expect to increasingly benefit from the new capacity in Italy and the US as we advance our ramp up activities and drive profitable growth.

其次，隨著我們推進產能提升活動並推動獲利成長，我們預計將從義大利和美國的新產能中受益匪淺。

Third, the buyer market continues to show positive signs. And we remain optimistic that as the demand continues to stabilize, we will see a return to historical market volumes and growth rates.

三是買方市場持續呈現正面動能。我們仍然樂觀地認為，隨著需求持續穩定，我們將看到市場銷售和成長率恢復到歷史水準。

Finally, in the near term, we are implementing a clear and actionable plan to optimize the operations and improve execution in our engineering segment. These together coupled with the strong fundamentals of our business and the high commitment of the team set the stage for us to drive durable double-digit organic growth, spend margins and drive long term shorter value. Operator, let's open it up for questions.

最後，在短期內，我們正在實施一個明確且可行的計劃，以優化營運並提高工程部門的執行力。這些因素加上我們業務的強勁基本面和團隊的高度承諾，為我們實現持久的兩位數有機成長、支出利潤率和推動長期短期價值奠定了基礎。接線員，讓我們開始提問。

Thank you. This is the chorus call conference operator. First of all, we apologize for the technical issues we had on the webcast from our side. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions) Michael Ryskin, Bank of America. Please go ahead.

謝謝。我是合唱團呼叫會議的接線生。首先，我們對網路直播中遇到的技術問題表示歉意。我們現在開始問答環節。（操作員指示）美國銀行邁克爾·里斯金（Michael Ryskin）。請繼續。

Hi. Thank you for the question. This is Avantika on for Mike. I understand that you will provide formal guidance for 2025, on the 4Q call, but the [Street] is modeling mid-to-high single-digit growth on the top line for 2025, and you reiterated your long-term construct of 11%. I understand that you've had headwinds in fiscal year 2024 from destocking in the Engineering segment, but is this a good starting point for 2025 as we stand today? Thank you.

你好。感謝您的提問。這是 Mike 的 Avantika。我知道您將在第四季度電話會議上提供對 2025 年的正式指導，但華爾街對 2025 年營收的預測是中高個位數成長，而您重申了 11% 的長期成長目標。我了解到，由於工程部門的庫存減少，您在 2024 財年遇到了阻力，但就目前情況而言，這是 2025 年的一個好起點嗎？謝謝。

Yes. Thanks for the question. Yeah, you are right. We will provide formal guidance next quarter. What we mentioned during the commentary is the summary of what we see today. I mean the uncertainty is related to the pace of recovery in EZ-fill vials and in bulk vials. This is the uncertainty.

是的。謝謝你的提問。是的，你說得對。我們將在下個季度提供正式指導。我們在評論中提到的，是對今天所看到情況的總結。我的意思是不確定性與 EZ-fill 小瓶和散裝小瓶的恢復速度有關。這就是不確定性。

On the other side, we still continue to see favorable tailwinds, particularly in high-performance syringes, but also in other product categories like cartridges, in vitro diagnostic drug delivery system. We also anticipate improvement in the Engineering segment, alongside the implementation of our business optimization plan.

另一方面，我們仍然看到有利的順風，特別是在高性能注射器領域，但也包括藥筒、體外診斷藥物傳輸系統等其他產品類別。隨著業務優化計畫的實施，我們也預期工程部門將會有所改善。

Finally, we expect improved financial performances in Fishers and Latina, as we increase our capacity and increase our level of revenue, better leveraging the fixed expenses that are under pressure during the start-up phase. So in the end we see a reasonable assumption.

最後，隨著我們產能的提高和收入水準的提高，我們預計費雪斯和拉蒂納工廠的財務表現將會改善，從而更好地利用啟動階段承受壓力的固定支出。所以最終我們看到了一個合理的假設。

All right, great. Thank you so much.

好的，太好了。太感謝了。

Matt Larew, William Blair.

馬特拉魯、威廉布萊爾。

Hi. Thanks for the question. I just wanted to ask about visibility to sort of destocking easing. I think last quarter you'd referenced maybe smaller customers in some countries getting back to ordering some positive conversations with larger customers. Just curious if you had to bucket by customer group, what the conversations are like and if sort of the number of each customer is making positive progress in each group has increased.

你好。謝謝你的提問。我只是想問一下去庫存放鬆的可見性。我認為上個季度您提到過，一些國家的較小客戶可能會重新與較大客戶進行一些積極的對話。只是好奇如果您必須按客戶群組進行分類，對話是什麼樣的，以及每個群組中每個客戶的數量是否取得積極進展。

Thank you for your question. Based on our customer conversations, we would characterize the market as normalizing. While we see some positive signal, it's still a mixed bag. Customers are working through inventories at different rates.

感謝您的提問。根據我們與客戶的對話，我們認為市場正在恢復正常。雖然我們看到一些積極的信號，但情況仍然好壞參半。客戶以不同的速度處理庫存。

In terms of orders, we started to see gradual improvements in vial order in the second half of 2024, compared to the first half. But we're also seeing customer forecast that indicate increased demand for vial in 2025. That being said, the timing and pace to recovery remain uncertain, but the work we are doing with our customers, give us caution optimism in 2025.

就訂單而言，與上半年相比，我們開始看到 2024 年下半年小瓶訂單逐漸改善。但我們也看到客戶預測顯示 2025 年對小瓶的需求會增加。話雖如此，復甦的時間和速度仍不確定，但我們與客戶共同進行的工作讓我們對 2025 年抱持謹慎樂觀的態度。

Matt just to clarify on your question. I think you were also asking about as it may relate to larger customers versus smaller customers, I think we can add some additional color on that. And I'll ask Franco to chime in here.

馬特只是想澄清一下你的問題。我想您也問過，這可能與大客戶和小客戶有關，我想我們可以對此添加一些額外的說明。我會請佛朗哥來發表意見。

We are starting to see or coming through in smaller markets like Latin America in particular and in our larger market things are going in the right direction. You're seeing update customers forecast that point to increase bio demand in 2025. So all overall we are starting to see positive signal month-after-month.

我們開始在拉丁美洲等較小的市場中看到或取得進展，並且在我們的較大市場中，事情正在朝著正確的方向發展。您會看到更新的客戶預測，顯示 2025 年生物需求將會增加。因此總體而言，我們開始看到逐月正面的訊號。

Okay. Thank you. And then if the sort of destocking issue is maybe a market issue, the engineering issues, perhaps to some extent, more internal or under your control, just curious on sort of the new guide and also the outlook, how much of your ability to hit your expectations is under your control, whether that's the optimization program or completing projects versus things that are perhaps out of your control like earlier when you were waiting for components or dealing with customer changes?

好的。謝謝。然後，如果這種去庫存問題可能是市場問題，那麼工程問題可能在某種程度上更多的是內部問題或者在您的控制之下，我只是對新的指南和前景感到好奇，您達到預期的能力在多大程度上是在您的控制之下，無論是優化計劃還是完成項目，還是一些可能超出您控制範圍的事情，比如之前您在等待組件或處理客戶變化？

So if you want, I can start to give you an overview or picture of the situation, and Marco can maybe drive more through the numbers, if it's okay. So in Engineering, we are starting to see some initial benefits from the actions we have recently taken. We launched an optimization plan, designed to address the current short-term challenges, improve the footprint and position the segment to return to profitable growth.

因此，如果您願意，我可以開始向您提供情況的概述或圖片，如果可以的話，Marco 可以透過數字提供更多資訊。因此在工程領域，我們開始看到最近採取的行動帶來的一些初步益處。我們啟動了一項優化計劃，旨在應對當前的短期挑戰、改善足跡並定位該部門以恢復獲利成長。

First, we have successfully completed complex projects in the third quarter for key customers. Second, we are focused on optimizing our Engineering footprint in alignment with our product strategies. Third, we are improving operational structure that can drive both cost savings and gain in productivity.

首先，我們在第三季為重點客戶成功完成了複雜專案。其次，我們專注於根據我們的產品策略來優化我們的工程足跡。第三，我們正在改善營運結構，以節省成本並提高生產力。

We believe we can return to the segment to profitable growth by middle of next year, but some actions we are taking are expected to drive long-term results.

我們相信到明年年中該部門能夠恢復獲利成長，但我們正在採取的一些行動預計將推動長期業績。

The demand for the Engineering segment remains favorable today, boost in particular, but long-term tailwinds such as the rise in biologics, the adoption of drug delivery device and more and more the new regulatory like Annex One and the trend towards ready-to-use systems.

目前，工程領域的需求仍然良好，尤其是成長，但長期的順風因素包括生物製劑的興起、藥物輸送裝置的採用、越來越多的新法規（如附件一）以及即用型系統的趨勢。

Yeah. And the main driver of the change of our guidance is related to engineering in 2024 and in Q3 and Q4. So as Franco was saying, we are taking action in order to regain the future profitability in a sustainable way. And this is the main driver of the change of our guidance this year. Beside that, we had also some changes related to the ramp up cost for validation in Latina. But again, we are working harder to take a future advantage with the action we are taking today.

是的。我們指引變化的主要驅動因素與 2024 年以及第三季和第四季的工程有關。正如弗朗哥所說，我們正在採取行動，以便以可持續的方式恢復未來的獲利能力。這是我們今年指導方針改變的主要驅動力。除此之外，我們也對拉丁裔驗證成本的提升進行了一些調整。但我們會更加努力，希望透過今天採取的行動為未來創造優勢。

And Matt just a final closeout comment on that. You're correct. It is really largely within our control as it relates to the execution and engineering. We really are no longer suffering from the supply chain challenges that we felt early on after the record wins that we had in that segment in late 2022. So as we advance our business optimization plan today, those actions are -- we would characterize them as largely within our control.

馬特對此做了最後的總結評論。你是對的。由於它與執行和工程有關，因此很大程度上它在我們的控制範圍內。在 2022 年底我們在該領域取得創紀錄的成功後，我們確實不再受到早期感受到的供應鏈挑戰。因此，當我們今天推進我們的業務優化計劃時，這些行動——我們將其描述為基本上在我們的控制範圍內。

Larry Solow, CJS Securities.

索洛（Larry Solow），CJS 證券公司。

Great. Thanks and good morning, good afternoon. I guess first question, just on BDS, some of the moving parts. You mentioned vials were down 38%. Was that kind of in line with your expectations? Or was that still a little bit worse? And just within that, was it -- is it -- has bulk started to come back at all? It doesn't sound like the RTU has, but just curious a little bit more granularity on the vial piece.

偉大的。謝謝，早安，下午好。我想第一個問題是關於 BDS 的一些活動部件。您提到小瓶數量下降了 38%。這符合你的預期嗎？或者說情況還有點糟？那麼就在那時，體積是否已經開始恢復了？聽起來 RTU 好像沒有，但只是對小瓶部分的更多細節感到好奇。

Larry, Marco speaking, thanks for the question. So it's in line with our expectations. I mean, we changed our guidance after Q1. Basically, we expected and we can see also today steady level of revenue in Q2, Q3 and Q4. We are down 38%, and the decrease is more pronounced in EZ-fill buyers that is impacting our margin because they are very accretive for us.

拉里，我是馬可，謝謝你的提問。所以這符合我們的預期。我的意思是，我們在第一季之後改變了我們的指導方針。基本上，我們預計，並且今天我們也可以看到第二季、第三季和第四季的收入水準保持穩定。我們下降了 38%，而且 EZ-fill 買家的下降更為明顯，這影響了我們的利潤，因為他們為我們帶來了很大的價值。

We can see some good signals in orders intake that what Franco was mentioning. So we can see improvement in overall situation, but it's more for revenue to be generated in 2025 rather than in Q4 2024. So we see still a steady situation in 2024.

我們可以從訂單量中看到一些好的訊號，正如 Franco 所提到的。因此，我們可以看到整體情況有所改善，但收入更多的是在 2025 年而不是 2024 年第四季產生。因此我們預計 2024 年情勢仍將保持穩定。

Got it. And just -- I appreciate the illustrative chart on the Latina ramp. Just curious, obviously, a similar ramp in Fishers a couple of years out. Can you just give us just an update on Fishers, where we stand today? I imagine as we -- are we still losing money there? I assume so. When do you kind of think that Fishers can turn breakeven and actually start reaching a profit? Is that like a 2026, 2027 target? Any thoughts on that? Thanks.

知道了。而且——我很欣賞拉丁裔坡道上的示意圖。只是好奇，顯然幾年後費雪也會出現類似的成長。您能否向我們介紹一下費雪的最新情況？我想像我們──我們還在那裡虧損嗎？我認為如此。您認為 Fishers 什麼時候能夠達到收支平衡並開始真正獲利？這就像 2026 年、2027 年的目標嗎？對此有什麼想法嗎？謝謝。

I start with the margin question, then Franco for sure, will compliment on the operational and business point of view. So from the margin standpoint of view, as you can see the illustrative graph, we are now -- we have now started the revenues in commercial ways. So we are obviously in the lower point of our profitability because of the activities we are putting together with validation, with customer testing and the ramp up of the production, validating the lines. Immediately after the installation. So we expect the improvements in the next quarter.

我先從利潤問題開始，然後 Franco 肯定會對營運和業務的觀點進行稱讚。因此，從利潤率的角度來看，正如您在說明圖中看到的，我們現在 - 我們現在已經開始以商業方式獲得收入。因此，我們顯然處於盈利能力的較低點，因為我們正在進行驗證、客戶測試以及產量提升和生產線驗證等活動。安裝後立即。因此我們預計下個季度將會改善。

Be in mind that the Fisher is a larger plant compared with Latina. It is a green field. Nevertheless, we believe that we have started the turning point and respect quarter after quarter improvement also. In both sides, I would say. So that's why I mentioned before that in 2025 but thank you for the financial performances in Fishers and Latina expected to be on the positive side.

請記住，與拉丁屬植物相比，Fisher 植物體型較大。這是一片綠色的田野。儘管如此，我們相信我們已經開始了轉折點，也尊重逐季改善的趨勢。我想說，雙方都是如此。所以這就是我之前提到的 2025 年，但感謝 Fishers 和 Latina 的財務表現預計會呈現積極的一面。

Correct. I can further give some color about the capacity expansion that we are doing between Fisher and Latina. We continue to make progress in both the greenfield plants. So in both facilities, the ongoing installation of manufacturing line and the customer validation are on track today with a very high intense activity in a partnership together with them.

正確的。我可以進一步介紹一下我們在 Fisher 和 Latina 之間的產能擴張。我們在兩家新建工廠上繼續取得進展。因此，在這兩個工廠中，正在進行的生產線安裝和客戶驗證目前都在按計劃進行，並與客戶進行了非常高強度的合作。

In Fisher, in the third quarter, we start commercial production and we started generating our first commercial revenue. During the quarter, we also completed the installation of our second high-speed manufacturing line, and we start the validation activity with several key customers.

在 Fisher，我們在第三季開始商業化生產，並開始產生第一筆商業收入。在本季度，我們也完成了第二條高速生產線的安裝，並開始與幾家主要客戶進行驗證活動。

In Latina, we are scaling production. And this quarter, the plant become profitable at a gross profit level. So in conclusion, we continue to see strong demand for high-value solutions driven by the strong momentum in biologics. And this reinforced our decision to strategically invest in particularly in Fishers and in Latina.

在拉蒂納，我們正在擴大生產規模。本季度，該工廠已實現毛利獲利。因此，總而言之，我們繼續看到受生物製劑強勁發展勢頭推動的對高價值解決方案的強勁需求。這強化了我們特別對費雪和拉蒂納進行策略性投資的決定。

Great. Thank you, Frank.

偉大的。謝謝你，弗蘭克。

Patrick Donnelly, Citi.

花旗銀行的 Patrick Donnelly。

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking the questions. I have two, maybe I'll just ask them both at once. I mean, Marco, just on the margin side, can you just talk about what you're seeing there? Obviously, the engineering piece dragged a little bit. It would be helpful just to talk through the moving pieces there and expectations going forward.

嗨，大家好。感謝您回答這些問題。我有兩個，也許我會同時問他們兩個。我的意思是，馬可，僅在邊際方面，您能談談您在那裡看到的情況嗎？顯然，工程部分有點拖沓。討論一下那裡的進展和未來的期望是有幫助的。

And then Franco, obviously, you talked a little bit about the destocking piece. Can you just talk about the confidence level that it's mostly in the rearview behind you guys? Any -- what would be the risks of that another leg there? Or are you guys feeling based on the order patterns, very confident that's over and we're in some level of stability to recovery? Thank you guys.

然後弗朗哥，顯然，你談到了去庫存的問題。您能否談談您對這主要體現在您們身後後視鏡中的信心程度？有沒有什麼——另一條腿在那裡會有什麼風險？或者你們根據訂單模式感覺，非常有信心這一切都已經結束，而且我們處於某種程度的穩定復甦中？謝謝你們。

The de-stocking is was one of the most painful headwind that we had in 2024. And I would like to start also in order to clarify that the buyer, the stock is just a temporary dynamics. This is a temporary inventory normalization effect. That is not a question. If the buyer market with a cover, it's a question of when the market with a cover, via are still the most adapted containment format globally. Every year, just to give you an idea, approximately more than EUR13 billion vial are used to deliver treatment to the patient.

去庫存是我們在 2024 年遇到的最痛苦的逆風之一。我首先也想向買家澄清一下，庫存只是暫時的動態。這是一個暫時的庫存正常化效應。這不是一個問題。如果買方市場有蓋子，那麼問題就是什麼時候有蓋子的市場，via仍然是全球最適合的遏制格式。舉個例子，每年約有超過 130 億歐元的藥物被用於為患者提供治療。

And this is through all the different pharmaceutical company, all through the different therapeutic area in the different regions around the world.

這是透過不同製藥公司、世界各地不同地區的不同治療領域來實現的。

So we have a strong confidence that the end markets are healthy and via demand will return to its pre-pandemic volume. Just to give you another information today, we are below 2019 vial demand letter. And to us, this is clearly an inventory normalization effect. On the top of this, we continue to see positive signal from many of our customers, both small customers that are reactivating order in the second part of 2024 and bigger international customers that are sharing new forecast for 2025. So step by step, we have a caution optimist that we are going to the right direction.

因此，我們堅信終端市場是健康的，並且需求將恢復到疫情前的水平。今天，我們只想向您提供另一個信息，以下是 2019 年小瓶需求信。對我們來說，這顯然是庫存正常化效應。除此之外，我們繼續看到許多客戶發出的正面訊號，既有在 2024 年下半年重新啟動訂單的小客戶，也有分享 2025 年新預測的大型國際客戶。如此一步一步，我們謹慎樂觀地相信我們正朝著正確的方向前進。

And about engineering, if I got correctly, Patrick, you asked about engineering also. So as mentioned, after basically doubling the size of the segment in terms of people and the revenue from 2019 to 2023, we are facing some challenges we explained last quarter with some specific highly customized complex projects.

關於工程學，派崔克，如果我沒記錯的話，你也問到了工程學。如同前面所提到的，在 2019 年至 2023 年期間該部門的人員規模和收入基本上翻倍之後，我們面臨著上個季度解釋過的一些特定高度客製化的複雜項目的挑戰。

We are in the good direction to fix them. As Franco was mentioned, we have been able to complete some of them in the quarter. Nevertheless, we are taking action to optimize the segment, and we expect it will take other two to three quarters to fully normalize our profitability. This is embedded in our guidance, obviously. And this is an area where we are working hard and taking action in order to set the stage for the future growth.

我們正朝著正確的方向去解決這些問題。正如弗朗哥所說，我們已經能夠在本季完成其中的一些任務。儘管如此，我們正在採取行動優化該部門，預計還需要兩到三個季度才能完全實現盈利正常化。顯然，這已融入我們的指導中。我們正在這一領域努力工作並採取行動，為未來的發展奠定基礎。

Jacob Johnson, Stephens.

雅各約翰遜，史蒂芬斯。

Hey, thanks, good morning. May maybe sticking on the margin front. Guide your guidance would seem to imply a decent step up in in EBITDA margin sequentially, just curious how to think about that in terms of gross margin expansion sequentially versus operating leverage.

嘿，謝謝，早安。可能仍停留在邊緣階段。您的指導似乎意味著 EBITDA 利潤率將連續大幅上升，只是好奇如何從毛利率連續擴張與經營槓桿的角度來思考這一點。

It is mainly driven by gross profit margin in Q4. We expect to leverage better volumes. The mix is expected to improve in Q4. As you can see, we increased a little bit the guidance for high value products because of the -- we are largely covered by firm committed orders from customer there. So the confidence is both from volume and mix.

主要受第四季毛利率推動。我們期望利用更好的銷售量。預計第四季度該組合將有所改善。正如您所看到的，我們略微提高了高價值產品的指導，因為我們基本上得到了來自客戶的堅定訂單。因此，信心既來自於數量，也來自於組合。

And finally, we expect a slightly better performances in Latin and Fish in Q4 compared to Q3. So it mainly business and the operational improvement rather than cost reduction.

最後，我們預計第四季度拉丁語和魚語的表現會比第三季度略有改善。因此，這主要是業務和營運的改進，而不是成本的降低。

Got it. Thanks for that Marco. And maybe just sticking on the cost side, you guys lowered the guide due to some incremental costs for engineering and Fishers. As we think about the kind of the return on those costs, just do those incremental costs maybe help accelerate the recovery in Engineering and the ramp at Fishers? Or just any way to think about where that money is going and the potential benefit from it?

知道了。謝謝你，馬可。也許只是堅持成本方面，你們由於工程和漁民的一些增量成本而降低了指南。當我們考慮這些成本的回報時，這些增量成本是否有助於加速工程業務的復甦和 Fishers 的業務成長？或者只是想思考一下這些錢的去向以及可能帶來的利益？

Yeah, let's say we are investing now to improve the situation, the profitability in the future, they are very different situation. I mean in features, as you know, we are ramping up the production, validating their lives with customers. So this is driven by strong demand, you see for the future and customers are willing to validate the production to leverage our capacity in the future. In engineering, is we that is more to execute our business optimization plan and be more profitable in the future.

是的，假設我們現在進行投資以改善現狀，那麼未來的獲利能力，情況就會截然不同。我的意思是，就功能而言，如您所知，我們正在提高產量，並與客戶一起驗證他們的生活。因此，這是由強勁的需求推動的，你看未來，客戶願意驗證生產以在未來利用我們的產能。在工程方面，我們更要執行我們的業務優化計劃，並在未來獲得更多的利潤。

Yes, I confirm we have decided to apply this decision right now in order to build a new platform to set in the future more cost competitive in order to increase our productivity.

是的，我確認我們已決定立即應用這項決定，以便建立一個新平台，從而在未來提高成本競爭力，從而提高我們的生產力。

Got it. Thanks for taking the questions.

知道了。感謝您回答這些問題。

David Windley, Jefferies.

傑富瑞 (Jefferies) 的戴維溫德利 (David Windley)。

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I was hoping to understand a little bit better how -- Larry kind of asked this question, but where we stand in Fisher related to the slide, the illustrative slide that you provided did I understand you to say that you're at a kind of maximum operating loss there and with increased revenue, you would expect that to get better. Did I understand that correctly? And how should we think about incremental margin as that revenue improves in Fishers? Thank you.

你好，謝謝你回答我的問題。我希望能更好地理解——拉里問了這個問題，但是我們在 Fisher 的立場與幻燈片有關，我是否理解為您提供的說明性幻燈片，您的意思是您在那裡處於最大運營損失，並且隨著收入的增加，您會期望情況會好轉。我的理解正確嗎？那麼，隨著費雪的收入增加，我們該如何看待增量利潤？謝謝。

You know, we started commercial production in Q3. So our expectation is to increase the revenues quarter-after-quarter with more validation, more line installed and so on and so far. So we expect to better leverage the fixed expenses as soon as our production will steadily grow up. So this is our assumption.

你知道，我們在第三季開始商業生產。因此，我們的預期是透過更多的驗證、更多的線路安裝等等，逐季度增加收入。因此，我們希望一旦產量穩定成長，就能更好地利用固定支出。這是我們的假設。

We believe we touched the lower point in this quarter with the higher cost associated with the validation and installation.

我們認為，本季我們觸及了最低點，因為與驗證和安裝相關的成本較高。

Correct. It's very similar journey we had with Latina. Now we have installed also the second line. And also in parallel, we are performing again validation, and we started to deliver commercial revenue also with the second line. In the next quarter, we will continue with this path with the same, similar to what we already happened in Latina today.

正確的。這與我們和拉丁裔的經歷非常相似。現在我們也安裝了第二條線路。同時，我們正在再次進行驗證，我們也開始透過第二條生產線實現商業收入。下個季度，我們將繼續沿著同樣的路徑前行，類似於我們今天在拉蒂納已經發生的情況。

In the long run, Fisher, it will have even more wide product portfolio because we are going also to produce some Alba technology and some auto-injector technology. So in the long run, a certain point, Fisher in the long period will be even wider and bigger than Athena.

從長遠來看，Fisher 將擁有更廣泛的產品組合，因為我們還將生產一些 Alba 技術和一些自動注射器技術。所以從長遠來看，某個時間點，長遠來看，Fisher會比Athena更寬更大。

Okay. So when you talk about gradual recovery in vials in '25. Can you help to define what that means? Should we pick a point in the second half of '25 and kind of assume a somewhat of a straight line from here to there, of the destocking -- the destocking negative impact lessening from here to there? Or a again, I'll just say it again. What does gradual recovery in '25 translate to for us?

好的。因此，當您談到'25年小瓶的逐漸恢復時。你能幫忙定義一下這是什麼意思嗎？我們是否應該在 2025 年下半年選擇一個點，並假設從這裡到那裡有一條直線，去庫存——去庫存的負面影響從這裡到那裡逐漸減弱？或者再說一遍，我再說一次。25年的逐步復甦對我們來說意味著什麼？

Dave, just let me just quickly start. I think as Marco commented earlier that the largest swing factor that we have for growth next year is really going to be tied to the timing and pace of recovery in vials. And so as you know that there is a sufficient amount of capacity on the market today, and so customers are not necessarily compelled to place orders as quickly as they may have historically. And so as we move into 2025, I think that it would be early to speculate kind of the timing and pace of that. And I just don't think we're in a position today. And Marco, Franco could additional color if they'd like.

戴夫，讓我快速開始。我認為，正如馬可先前評論的那樣，明年成長的最大影響因素實際上將與小瓶復甦的時間和速度息息相關。如您所知，目前市場有足夠的產能，因此客戶不一定會像過去那樣迅速下訂單。因此，隨著我們進入 2025 年，我認為現在推測這一時間安排和速度還為時過早。我只是不認為我們今天能夠達到這樣的境地。如果 Marco 和 Franco 願意的話，他們可以添加更多顏色。

Exactly. We have a constant exchange with our customer in particular at the end of the year. And we see that month by month, they are going to increase the way that they give more transparency on the forecast for 2025 not only the small customer and also big international organization. But still we want to have a cushion optimism that 2025 to be the year that we will recover. We want to be prudent to understand when it will be the right of normalization.

確切地。我們與客戶保持著不斷的交流，特別是在年底。我們看到，他們正在逐月增強 2025 年預測的透明度，不僅針對小型客戶，也針對大型國際組織。但我們仍然樂觀地認為，2025 年將是我們復甦的一年。我們希望謹慎地了解何時才是正常化的最佳時機。

(inaudible) Sorry.

（聽不清楚）抱歉。

Go ahead, Dave.

繼續吧，戴夫。

Okay. Since that one didn't hit the mark, let me move to a different one, which is around the additional costs for validation in Fishers and optimization in engineering. So those are -- you're adding costs. These are plans that were in place before and you're adding costs related to those.

好的。由於那個沒有達到目標，讓我轉到另一個，它是關於 Fishers 驗證和工程優化的額外成本。所以這些是——你正在增加成本。這些是之前製定的計劃，您正在添加與之相關的成本。

Can you talk about what has deviated from your previous expectation that requires those additional costs? For example, in Fishers, is validation proving to be more challenging than you previously expected? Are you validating for more customers than you previously expected? And similarly, in engineering, what is requiring the additional cost relative to the optimization plan that you set out before? Thank you.

您能談談哪些方面與您先前預期的偏差，以至於需要增加這些成本嗎？例如，在 Fishers 中，驗證是否比您之前預期的更具挑戰性？您是否正在驗證比之前預期更多的客戶？同樣，在工程上，相對於您之前製定的最佳化計劃，哪些方面需要額外的成本？謝謝。

The ramp-up activities are advancing as planned, and we are happy about the program. We have higher cost for Fishers are related to validation. And sometimes it's taking longer depending on customer approach, their process and not every customer is the same with respect to the validation activities. We are targeting here, as you know, high-value products.

升級活動正在按計劃推進，我們對該計劃感到非常滿意。我們對 Fisher 的驗證成本較高。有時，這取決於客戶的方法和流程，並非每個客戶的驗證活動都相同。如您所知，我們的目標是高價值產品。

So the requirements are often very level. Anyway, we are very happy about the success we gained in validating the plant and the first line with the very important customers that are, by the way, already committed orders, so they are really willing to start with us.

所以要求往往非常嚴格。無論如何，我們很高興看到我們與非常重要的客戶一起成功驗證了工廠和第一條生產線，順便說一句，這些客戶已經下了訂單，所以他們真的願意與我們一起開始。

For what is related to the engineering segment. And one of the main action that we are taking in our optimization plan is to review our footprint. For example, we have done some rights in our operational structure and we have moved some activity to Italy.

與工程部分相關的內容。我們在優化計劃中採取的主要行動之一就是審查我們的足跡。例如，我們在營運結構中賦予了一些權利，並將一些活動轉移到了義大利。

We have decided to move with this this type of decision in order to build the floor for the next growing in order to increase our productivity, reduce our cost. You have decided to do this investment right now today in order to gain and to be back on more regular marginality for next -- in the middle of next in 2025.

我們決定採取這樣的措施，為下一步的發展奠定基礎，提高生產力，降低成本。您決定現在就進行這項投資，以便在 2025 年中期獲得更正常的邊際收益。

Got it. Thank you. Appreciate your question. Thanks.

知道了。謝謝。感謝您的提問。謝謝。

Paul Knight, KeyBanc Capital Markets.

KeyBanc 資本市場公司的 Paul Knight。

Hi, Franco. Could you talk why Indianapolis is coming online faster? Was it customer request, customer payment? What were the dynamics from what we thought would be a later 2025 startup?

你好，法蘭哥。您能談談為什麼印第安納波利斯上線速度更快嗎？這是客戶要求還是客戶付款？我們認為 2025 年末的新創企業將會具有什麼樣的動態？

No, we are in line with our expectation. I mean it was in our plan to start the commercial revenue about two, three quarters after Latino. So we are exactly in line with our plan. Obviously, now it's a matter of ramping up the revenue and the activities there and better leverage the fixed cost we have there. But all honesty, we are exactly in line with our plan in order to.

不，我們符合我們的預期。我的意思是，我們的計劃是在拉丁裔人口成長兩到三個季度後開始實現商業收入。所以我們完全按照我們的計劃進行。顯然，現在的問題是增加那裡的收入和活動，並更好地利用我們在那裡的固定成本。但說實話，我們確實按照我們的計劃進行。

Remember, Paul, that Latina was a brownfield and fisher a greenfield plant. And the greenfield plant also from the moment that we decide during the IPO to do the greenfield plant, we received some additional orders like BARDA, also the other opportunity that we have enlarged the plant. So this is why we have this, let's say, a few quarters of difference between Europe and United States.

保羅，請記住，拉蒂納是一塊棕地，而費雪是一塊綠地工廠。而且從我們在 IPO 期間決定建立綠地工廠的那一刻起，我們就收到了一些額外的訂單，例如 BARDA，這也是我們擴建工廠的另一個機會。這就是為什麼歐洲和美國之間存在著幾個季度的差異。

Okay. And then within the Engineering group, the turnaround there, is it done in terms of fixing operations in Northern Europe? Where are we from where you want to be with the efficiencies at engineering in Northern Europe, Denmark, I believe.

好的。那麼在工程集團內部，那裡的轉變是否是在修復北歐業務方面完成的？我相信，我們現在離北歐、丹麥的工程效率還有很長的路要走。

Today, our goal is to build a center of excellence by -- for each product. And already our original idea is to have -- for inspection system to have excellence in Denmark and also in Italy, in particular, in (inaudible) So this action -- this plan is in place. We will require also a few quarters in front of us. Our expectation to be in the middle of next year to be back on certain marginality.

今天，我們的目標是為每種產品建立一個卓越中心。我們最初的想法是——讓丹麥和義大利的檢查系統更加完善，特別是（聽不清楚）所以這個行動——這個計劃已經到位。我們還需要一些空間。我們預計明年年中將恢復到一定的邊緣水平。

And the last question would be the startup of hiring and training people in front of a capacity starting like Indiana like Latina, what do you think that's had a 100 basis point impact on gross EBITDA margin? Is it 200 or is it kind of a range of 100 to 200? Can you kind of give a formula or a data range on personnel costs, training costs?

最後一個問題是，在像印第安納州 Latina 這樣的工廠開始生產之前，招募和培訓員工的啟動，您認為這會對毛 EBITDA 利潤率產生 100 個基點的影響嗎？是 200 還是 100 到 200 之間的某個範圍？您能給人員成本、訓練成本的公式或資料範圍嗎？

What I can tell you, Paul is that we are having been in this quarter negative gross profit in the combination of Fisher and Latina. So the graph is illustrative, but we are not still at the overall the combination of the two IOS gross profit margin.

保羅，我可以告訴你的是，本季 Fisher 和 Latina 的合併毛利為負。因此該圖表具有說明性，但我們尚未完全了解兩個 IOS 毛利率的整體組合。

And since we are targeting high value products here, we expect the final gross profit margin will be above the average of the company. So you can see the magnitude of the delta we are suffering today with the ramp up of the two facilities. But again, we are doing it for future profitability covered by customers demand.

由於我們瞄準的是高價值產品，我們預期最終的毛利率將高於公司的平均值。所以你可以看到，隨著這兩個設施的擴大，我們今天遭受的損失有多嚴重。但同樣，我們這樣做是為了滿足客戶需求，滿足未來的獲利能力。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

Dan Leonard, UBS.

瑞銀的丹·倫納德（Dan Leonard）。

Thank you. I have a follow up to Jacob's question from earlier. I'm just trying to better understand the Q4 sequential margin expansion. I mean I'm looking at a 500 basis point sequential gross margin improvement from Q3 levels into Q4, is that number correct? And it does seem inconsistent with historical incremental margin. So I was wondering if you could help me better understand that the buckets that would drive that.

謝謝。我對 Jacob 之前提出的問題有一個後續問題。我只是想更了解第四季連續利潤率的擴大。我的意思是我看到第四季的毛利率環比提高了 500 個基點，這個數字正確嗎？這似乎與歷史增量利潤不一致。所以我想知道您是否可以幫助我更好地理解驅動這一點的儲存桶。

Yeah. Thanks for the question. So we are targeting at the center point more than $320 million of revenue in Q4. We are largely covered by committed orders. And the mix is expected to be pretty good. And that's the reason why we increased the guidance for high-value products in Q4. And again, we are covered by committed orders from customers largely.

是的。謝謝你的提問。因此，我們的目標是第四季的中心收入超過 3.2 億美元。我們的大部分訂單都已承諾。預計混合效果會相當好。這就是我們在第四季增加高價值產品指引的原因。而且，我們的訂單大多來自客戶的承諾。

This -- the mix and the growing volumes is expected to help the better levels of fixed expenses and the mix. And on top of it, we are expecting better performances from the financial point of view, both in Fishers and Latina as soon as we step-up with revenue and the coverage of fixed expenses. So the combination of these events is giving us confidence in delivering the guidance for Q4.

預計這種組合和不斷增長的數量將有助於改善固定費用和組合的水平。最重要的是，只要我們增加收入並涵蓋固定費用，我們預計費雪和拉蒂納的財務狀況都會有更好的表現。因此，這些事件的結合使我們對實現第四季度的預期充滿信心。

Okay. I think I understand a bit better and just a quick follow up Franco. I was wondering if you could better dimension that comment you made that vile demand is below 2019 levels. But by how much and I'm trying to better understand the magnitude of revenue lift possible if demand merely returned to 2019 levels.

好的。我認為我理解得更深入一些，只是快速跟進 Franco。我想知道您是否可以更好地衡量您所說的卑鄙需求低於 2019 年水平的評論。但是，如果需求僅僅恢復到 2019 年的水平，我試圖更好地了解收入可能成長的幅度有多大。

Yeah, Marco speaking. As we disclosed clearly, we are down 48%, 40%, compared to last year in vials, and this is coming after a year when we declined the COVID business that was mainly biased by EUR80 million to EUR90 million in 2023.

是的，我是馬可。正如我們明確披露的那樣，與去年相比，我們的小瓶數量下降了 48% 到 40%，而這是在我們拒絕 COVID 業務的一年之後發生的，2023 年，我們的業務主要下降了 8000 萬歐元至 9000 萬歐元。

So it's the combination of two years of decline is putting us in a condition that we are below 2019 demand. What to expect for the future, I think we disclosed all the variables in place between large customers and smaller customers also by geographical area.

因此，兩年的下滑使我們處於低於 2019 年需求的狀況。對於未來的預期，我認為我們按地理區域揭露了大客戶和小客戶之間的所有變數。

Obviously, not easy today to put together the combination of all the probability and give you precise guidance about 2025, this is the main uncertainty we need to assess and to address for 2025.

顯然，今天很難將所有可能性綜合起來並給出有關 2025 年的精確指導，這是我們需要評估和解決的 2025 年的主要不確定性。

Okay. Thank you.

好的。謝謝。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Curtis Moiles, BNP Paribas Exane.

法國巴黎銀行 Exane 的 Curtis Moiles。

Thank you for taking my questions. Just looking at the 50 year guidance, the range that you have out there for the implications for Q4. It looks like it's kind of anywhere from a 1% decline to a 5% increase in Q4. So I kind of wanted to get a better idea of what the moving parts are there. Are you expecting an improvement in BDS and engineering or is one going to do better than the other or any other color will be helpful.

感謝您回答我的問題。光是看一下 50 年的指導範圍，您就會知道這對第四季有何影響。看起來第四季的降幅在 1% 到 5% 之間。所以我想更了解那裡的活動部件是什麼。您是否期待 BDS 和工程方面有所改進，或者其中一個會比另一個做得更好，或者任何其他顏色都會有幫助。

For Q4, expectation is to improve mainly in BDS segment, where we are basically leveraging the high-value products, the higher volumes and the ramp-up of Fishers and Latina. So it's mainly about the BDS segment improvement.

對於第四季度，預計主要在 BDS 領域有所改善，我們主要利用高價值產品、更高的銷售量以及 Fishers 和 Latina 的成長。所以這主要涉及 BDS 段的改進。

Okay. That's helpful. And then also just going back to the destocking. You're calling out vile orders expected to improve or pick up by the end of the year. Should we expect any kind of impact on revenue in Q4 or is that going to be delayed until 2025 at the earliest.

好的。這很有幫助。然後我們再回到去庫存的問題。您正在呼籲惡劣的訂單，預計到年底將有所改善或回升。我們是否預計這會對第四季度的收入產生任何影響，或者這是否會最早推遲到 2025 年。

Again, as Franco was saying we are gaining traction in order. We see some, some improvement and not yet the normalization of the level of orders in vials. Orders are mainly for the beginning of 2025 or rather than Q4 '24.

再說一次，正如弗朗哥所說，我們正在有序地獲得發展動力。我們看到了一些改善，但小瓶訂單水準尚未正常化。訂單主要針對 2025 年初或 2024 年第四季。

And if I may also your sort of confidence about our long-term strategy and what eventually is behind 2024 in order to isolate the situation '24. So '24 was challenger for Stevanato Group, and we faced some temporary painful headwind this year. Bio destocking took the industry by surprise and will turn around. This is important that we need to be clear.

如果可以的話，我也可以對您的長期策略以及 2024 年的最終目標充滿信心，以便隔離 24 年的情況。因此，2024年對史蒂瓦那托集團來說是一個挑戰，今年我們面臨一些暫時的痛苦逆風。生物去庫存讓產業措手不及，並將出現逆轉。這一點很重要，我們需要清楚。

We are also in a cycle of high investment in Fisher and in Latina, but we are doing this investment for the future. In engineering, this is within our control, and we feel confident that the action we are taking will deliver results.

我們也正處於對 Fisher 和 Latina 進行大量投資的周期中，但我們是為了未來而進行的投資。在工程方面，這在我們的控制範圍內，我們相信我們採取的行動將會產生成果。

On the other side, we see sustained demand for high-value solutions, in particular, on syringes, [next on] Alba (inaudible) At the end of the day, the fundamentals have not changed. The demand landscape is robust, and we have long secular tailwinds.

另一方面，我們看到對高價值解決方案的持續需求，特別是注射器，[下一個] 阿爾巴（聽不清楚）歸根結底，基本面並沒有改變。需求前景強勁，我們擁有長期的順風優勢。

In short, we are positioned for profitable growth. So, from our perspective, as we consider 2026, we would expect that while destocking will be behind us, we will gain leverage from scaling our new operation in Latina and Fisher and the Engineering segment should return to profitable growth.

簡而言之，我們已做好實現獲利成長的準備。因此，從我們的角度來看，考慮到 2026 年，我們預計，雖然去庫存將已成為過去，但我們將通過擴大我們在拉蒂納和費舍爾的新業務來獲得槓桿作用，而工程部門也應該會恢復盈利增長。

This, give us continued confidence in our ability to achieve an adjusted EBITDA margin of 30% and high-value solutions in the range of 40% to 45% in 2027. This is the -- we have that we have today with the leadership team.

這使我們繼續有信心在 2027 年實現 30% 的調整後 EBITDA 利潤率和 40% 至 45% 範圍內的高價值解決方案。這就是我們今天所擁有的領導團隊。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Operator. Do we have any other questions?

操作員。還有其他問題嗎？

(Operator Instructions). Ms. Miles, there are no more questions registered at this time.

（操作員指令）。邁爾斯女士，目前沒有其他問題。

Thank you very much. We want to thank everyone for joining us today and have a wonderful day joining us today and have a wonderful day.

非常感謝。我們要感謝今天加入我們的每個人，祝大家有美好的一天。