StoneCo Ltd (STNE) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to StoneCo's third-quarter 2025 earnings conference call. By now, everyone should have access to our earnings release. The company also posted a presentation to go along with its call. All material can be found online at investors.stone.co.

各位晚上好。感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 StoneCo 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。現在，所有人都應該可以查看我們的財報了。該公司還發布了一份演示文稿，與此次電話會議一同發布。所有資料均可在 investors.stone.co 網站上找到。

Before we begin the call, I advise you to review the disclaimer included in the press release and presentation, which outlines important information about forward-looking statements and non-IFRS financial measures.

在電話會議開始之前，我建議您查看新聞稿和簡報中包含的免責聲明，其中概述了有關前瞻性陳述和非 IFRS 財務指標的重要資訊。

In addition, many of the risks regarding the business are disclosed in the company's Form 20-F filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which is available at www.sec.gov. (Operator Instructions)

此外，該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的 20-F 表格中揭露了許多與業務相關的風險，該表格可在 www.sec.gov 上查閱。（操作說明）

Joining the call today is Stone's CEO, Pedro Zinner; the CFO and IRO, Mateus Scherer; the Strategy and Marketing Officer, Lia Matos; and the Head of IR, Roberta Noronha.

今天參加電話會議的有 Stone 的執行長 Pedro Zinner；財務長兼投資者關係長 Mateus Scherer；策略與行銷長 Lia Matos；以及投資者關係主管 Roberta Noronha。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Pedro Zinner. Please proceed.

現在我將把會議交給主持人佩德羅·齊納。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good evening, everyone. I'd like to start with a brief update on our key performance metrics and our capital allocation strategy. In the third quarter, we continue to make solid progress toward our 2025 objectives, even in a more challenging macro environment. Our adjusted gross profit grew 15.2% year to date despite our ongoing share buyback program, which has had some impact on this metric.

謝謝接線員，大家晚上好。首先，我想簡單介紹一下我們的關鍵績效指標和資本配置策略。第三季度，即使在更具挑戰性的宏觀環境下，我們仍然朝著 2025 年的目標穩步前進。儘管我們持續進行股票回購計劃，這對該指標產生了一定影響，但我們今年迄今的調整後毛利仍成長了 15.2%。

Meanwhile, for the first nine months of 2025, our adjusted basic EPS reached BRL6.9 per share, up 37% year to date, keeping us well on track to meet our full-year target. Despite external headwinds, our team is performing with discipline and focus, delivering consistent value to our clients and shareholders.

同時，2025 年前九個月，我們調整後的基本每股盈餘達到 6.9 雷亞爾，年成長 37%，使我們有望實現全年目標。儘管面臨外部不利因素，但我們的團隊以嚴謹的紀律和專注的態度開展工作，持續為客戶和股東創造價值。

Turning to capital allocation. We have maintained a disciplined approach to returning capital to shareholders through our share buybacks. In the last 12 months, we have returned BRL2.8 billion to shareholders, about 10% yield for the period.

接下來討論資本配置。我們一直堅持以股票回購的方式，穩步地向股東返還資本。在過去的 12 個月裡，我們向股東返還了 28 億雷亞爾，該期間的殖利率約為 10%。

Building on the BRL3 billion in excess capital we identified last year, I'm pleased to report that by the end of October, we had already returned 74% of that amount to investors. This underscores our commitment to return excess capital through buybacks or dividends when we don't have immediate value-accretive investment opportunities.

基於我們去年發現的 30 億雷亞爾超額資本，我很高興地報告，截至 10 月底，我們已經將其中 74% 的金額返還給了投資者。這凸顯了我們致力於在沒有立即增值投資機會的情況下，透過股票回購或分紅來返還多餘資本的承諾。

Our goal remains the same, exercise financial prudence while maximizing long-term value creation for our clients and shareholders.

我們的目標始終如一，即在保持財務審慎的同時，最大限度地為客戶和股東創造長期價值。

With that, I'll now hand it over to Lia for a closer look at our quarterly numbers. Lia, please go ahead.

接下來，我將把鏡頭交給莉婭，讓她更詳細地看一下我們的季度數據。莉婭，請繼續。

Thank you, Pedro, and good evening, everyone. Starting on slide 4, we dive into our consolidated bottom line and return on equity results. We are pleased to see another quarter of consistent performance towards our goals despite a continued challenging macroenvironment. Our adjusted net income grew 18% year over year with a 13% increase in continuing operations. This performance was driven by three key factors.

謝謝你，佩德羅，大家晚上好。從第 4 張投影片開始，我們將深入探討我們的綜合淨利潤和股本回報率結果。儘管宏觀環境持續充滿挑戰，但我們很高興看到公司連續第二季在實現目標方面取得了穩定的成績。經調整後的淨收入年增 18%，其中持續經營業務成長 13%。這項成績主要由三個關鍵因素驅動。

The first one relates to the successful adjustment to our pricing policy implemented earlier this year, which helped offset the impact of higher interest rates in the country. Second, the strategic use of client deposits as a funding source helped improve efficiency by lowering our average funding spreads. And third, a lower effective tax rate compared to the same period last year also contributed to the results. These effects were partially offset by our decision to more evenly distribute marketing expenses this year, which negatively affected the year-over-year comparison.

第一個因素與我們今年稍早實施的定價政策調整成功有關，這有助於抵消國內利率上升的影響。其次，策略性地利用客戶存款作為資金來源，透過降低平均資金差價，提高了效率。第三，與去年同期相比，較低的實際稅率也促成了這個結果。這些影響部分被我們今年更均衡分配行銷費用的決定所抵消，但這對同比比較產生了負面影響。

Our adjusted basic EPS reached BRL2.57 per share, growing 31% year-over-year. The above net income growth was supported by continued execution in our share buyback program. Regarding returns, our ROE continued to expand sequentially. Consolidated ROE expanded 8 percentage points year over year to 24%, while Financial Services ROE from continuing operations increased 4 percentage points over the same period to reach 33% in the quarter.

我們調整後的基本每股盈餘達到 2.57 巴西雷亞爾，年增 31%。上述淨利潤成長得益於我們持續推進的股票回購計畫。在收益方面，我們的淨資產收益率（ROE）持續環比成長。綜合淨資產收益率年增 8 個百分點至 24%，而持續經營的金融服務淨資產收益率同期成長 4 個百分點，達到 33%。

Now let's detail our continuing operation’s top line performance on slide 5. Total revenue and income grew 16% year over year, reaching BRL3.6 billion, driven by continued solid execution in our core business. Importantly, this growth was achieved despite lower floating revenues as we began deploying client deposits as a funding alternative in our operations starting earlier this year. While this strategy naturally reduces floating revenues, it generates savings in financial expenses, reinforcing the strength of our funding model.

現在讓我們在第 5 張投影片上詳細介紹我們持續經營業務的整體業績。在核心業務持續穩健發展的推動下，總營收和利潤年增 16%，達到 36 億雷亞爾。重要的是，儘管今年稍早我們開始在營運中採用客戶存款作為融資替代方案，導致浮動收入下降，但我們仍然實現了這一成長。雖然這種策略自然會減少浮動收入，但它可以節省財務費用，從而增強我們融資模式的實力。

Our adjusted gross profit from continuing operations was BRL1.6 billion in the quarter, growing 12% year over year. This growth was largely aligned with TPV as higher revenues were partially offset by increased financial expenses driven by the higher CDI rates.

本季我們持續經營業務的調整後毛利為16億雷亞爾，年增12%。這一增長與TPV基本一致，因為更高的收入被更高的CDI費率導致的財務支出增加部分抵消。

On slide 6, we highlight our operating metrics, beginning with our payments business for MSMBs. Our active client base grew 17% year over year, reaching 4.7 million clients with 38% classified as heavy users, leveraging more than three of the solutions we offer. This demonstrates not only growth in the scale, but also the engagement across our product ecosystem. MSMB TPV grew 11% year over year in the third quarter, reaching BRL126 billion. Such growth comes from a combination of a 49% growth in PIX QR code volumes, which continues to outpace card TPV and capture share from debit transactions and the 6% growth in card volumes.

在第 6 張投影片中，我們將重點放在我們的營運指標，首先是針對中小微型企業的支付業務。我們的活躍客戶群年增 17%，達到 470 萬客戶，其中 38% 為重度用戶，使用了我們提供的三種以上解決方案。這不僅體現了規模的成長，也反映了我們產品生態系統的參與。第三季中小企業總交易額年增 11%，達到 1,260 億雷亞爾。這種成長源自於 PIX 二維碼交易量成長 49%，持續超過銀行卡交易額，並從金融卡交易中奪取份額，以及銀行卡交易量成長 6%。

Compared to the previous quarter, the yearly growth showed a slight deceleration reflecting a more challenging macroenvironment and softer same-store sales among our clients, trends that are persisting in the fourth quarter, and we're monitoring carefully.

與上一季相比，年度成長略有放緩，反映出宏觀環境更具挑戰性，以及客戶同店銷售額疲軟，這些趨勢在第四季度仍在持續，我們正在密切關注。

On slide 7, we highlight the performance of our banking operation. We're pleased to report continued growth in our active client base, which increased 22% year over year, reaching 3.5 million clients. This sustained expansion reflects both strong client acquisition and the evolution of our payments and banking bundle offers.

在第 7 張投影片中，我們重點介紹了我們的銀行業務表現。我們很高興地報告，我們的活躍客戶群持續成長，年增 22%，達到 350 萬客戶。這一持續成長反映了我們強大的客戶獲取能力以及支付和銀行服務組合方案的不斷發展。

Client deposits grew 32% year over year and 2% quarter over quarter, reaching BRL9 billion during the period. While we observed a slight decline in our deposit base relative to MSMB TPV from 7.2% in the second quarter to 7.1% in the third quarter, this primarily reflects daily seasonality driven by clients' cash out obligations, and we saw a quick rebound on the days that followed.

客戶存款年增 32%，季增 2%，在此期間達到 90 億雷亞爾。雖然我們觀察到，相對於 MSMB TPV，我們的存款基礎從第二季度的 7.2% 略微下降到第三季度的 7.1%，但這主要反映了客戶提現義務所導致的每日季節性波動，而且在隨後的幾天裡，我們看到了快速反彈。

Viewed from another perspective, the average daily deposit base increased 40% year over year and 6% quarter over quarter, expanding relative to TPV. The composition of deposits in the quarter moved slightly towards more time deposits, which now accounts for 84% of total deposits, slightly up from 83% in the previous quarter. This growth underscores increased adoption of our investment solution, leading to a higher engagement with our banking features.

從另一個角度來看，平均每日存款基數年增 40%，環比增長 6%，相對於總存款額 (TPV) 有所增長。本季存款組成略微向定期存款傾斜，定期存款佔總存款的 84%，略高於上一季的 83%。這一成長凸顯了我們投資解決方案的日益普及，從而提高了客戶對我們銀行服務的參與度。

Now, turning to slide 8. We review the evolution of our credit operation. In the quarter, we observed an acceleration in portfolio growth, combined with disciplined asset quality and in strict alignment with our risk appetite statement parameters. The total credit portfolio grew 27% sequentially, accelerating compared to the previous quarter and reaching BRL2.3 billion. Of this, BRL2.1 billion is attributable to our merchant solutions, primarily working capital financing for MSMBs, which grew 28% quarter over quarter. Additionally, just over BRL200 million relates to credit cards, which increased 18% over the same period.

現在，請看第 8 張投影片。我們回顧了信貸業務的發展歷程。本季度，我們觀察到投資組合成長加速，同時保持了嚴格的資產質量，並嚴格符合我們的風險偏好聲明參數。信貸總額季增 27%，較上一季加速成長，達 23 億雷亞爾。其中，21億雷亞爾來自我們的商家解決方案，主要是為中小微型企業提供的營運資金融資，較上季成長28%。此外，信用卡相關支出略高於 2 億雷亞爾，年增 18%。

Despite the acceleration in portfolio growth, our credit quality remains strong. NPLs 15 to 90 days reached 3.12%, while NPLs over 90 days stood at 5.03%. The rise in NPLs over 90 days reflects the natural maturation of the portfolio, whereas increase in NPLs 15 to 90 days was primarily due to specific client payment delay, which has already normalized in the fourth quarter.

儘管投資組合成長加速，但我們的信貸品質依然強勁。逾期 15 至 90 天的不良貸款率為 3.12%，逾期 90 天以上的不良貸款率為 5.03%。逾期 90 天以上的不良貸款增加反映了貸款組合的自然成熟，而逾期 15 至 90 天的不良貸款增加主要是由於特定客戶的付款延遲，這種情況在第四季度已經恢復正常。

As you may recall, in the second quarter, we made a deliberate decision to increase coverage ratio levels in response to the weaker macro outlook. With no additional adjustments required this quarter, the coverage ratio declined slightly to 265%, yet remaining at a conservative level.

您可能還記得，在第二季度，我們針對疲軟的宏觀經濟前景，刻意決定提高覆蓋率水準。由於本季無需進行額外調整，覆蓋率略微下降至 265%，但仍處於保守水準。

Similarly, our cost of risk, which reflects provisions recorded during the quarter, decreased from 20.2% to 16.8% sequentially, staying within the expected mid-teens range and reflecting disciplined risk management. Following the provision adjustments in Q2, we implemented corresponding pricing changes. This ensures a disciplined balance between risk and return while supporting sustainable growth.

同樣，我們的風險成本（反映了本季提列的準備金）環比從 20.2% 降至 16.8%，保持在預期的十幾個百分點的範圍內，反映了嚴格的風險管理。繼第二季撥備調整之後，我們實施了相應的價格調整。這確保了風險與回報之間的平衡，同時支持永續成長。

As you can see in the slide, the average monthly credit rate was 2.9% in Q3, up from 2.7% in Q2. The metric is calculated by dividing the credit revenues by the average credit portfolio. However, the result is significantly impacted by product mix as the inclusion of nonfinance credit card portfolio and higher growth in specialized debt disbursements can dilute the rates.

從幻燈片中可以看到，第三季的平均月度信用利率為 2.9%，高於第二季的 2.7%。此指標的計算方法是將信貸收入除以平均信貸組合。然而，產品組合會對結果產生重大影響，因為納入非金融信用卡組合以及專業債務發放的更高成長可能會稀釋利率。

In summary, I'm pleased with how our company has evolved and remained resilient despite ongoing macroeconomic headwinds. We continue to execute with focus on our clients, confident that there are multiple opportunities to help them grow further and manage their business in a more seamless and effective way.

總而言之，我對我們公司的發展以及在持續的宏觀經濟逆風中保持韌性感到滿意。我們將繼續以客戶為中心開展工作，相信有很多機會可以幫助他們進一步發展，並以更順暢、更有效的方式管理他們的業務。

Now, I want to pass it over to Mateus, who will discuss our financial performance in more detail. Mateus?

現在，我想把發言權交給馬特烏斯，他將更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。馬特烏斯？

Thank you, Lia, and good evening, everyone. Let's discuss our adjusted consolidated P&L for continuing operations, which is shown on slide 9. Our cost of services increased 12% year over year, decreasing 90 basis points as a percentage of revenues. This reduction reflects the combination of efficiency gains in logistics, lower transaction and technology costs, and lower provision for acquiring losses, which were partially offset by higher loan loss provisions in the period. Administrative expenses increased 7% year over year, resulting in a reduction of 50 basis points as a percentage of revenues, driven by continued operating leverage across our support functions.

謝謝你，莉婭，大家晚上好。讓我們來討論一下我們經過調整後的持續經營合併損益表，該表顯示在第 9 頁。我們的服務成本年增 12%，佔營收的比例下降了 90 個基點。這一減少反映了物流效率的提高、交易和技術成本的降低以及收購損失準備金的減少，但這些因素被同期較高的貸款損失準備金部分抵消。行政費用年增 7%，導致收入百分比下降 50 個基點，這主要得益於我們在支援職能部門持續的營運槓桿作用。

Selling expenses increased 21% year over year, increasing 50 basis points relative to revenues. This reflects a more evenly distributed marketing spend in 2025 compared to last year, when they were skewed towards the first half of the year given the strong investments in sponsoring a specific reality show.

銷售費用較去年同期成長 21%，較營收成長 50 個基點。這反映出 2025 年的行銷支出比去年更加均衡，去年由於大力投資贊助某個特定的真人秀節目，行銷支出主要集中在上半年。

Financial expenses increased 28% year over year, representing a 280 basis points increase as a percentage of revenues. This was largely due to a higher average CDI rate year over year, which was partially mitigated by increased use of client deposits as a lower cost funding source, which intensified since the end of the first quarter.

財務費用年增 28%，佔收入的百分比增加了 280 個基點。這主要是由於 CDI 平均利率同比上升，而客戶存款作為低成本資金來源的使用增加在一定程度上緩解了這一問題，這種情況自第一季末以來愈演愈烈。

Lastly, I would just like to remind that the execution of our capital distribution strategy negatively affects our financial expenses. Other expenses increased 2% year over year and reduced 40 basis points relative to revenues, which was mainly due to an increase in gains related to the sale of POS. Our effective tax rate was 15.3% in the quarter, down from 18.6% in the third quarter of '24. The year-over-year decrease was primarily driven by an intragroup interest on equity operation and higher benefits from Lei do Bem.

最後，我想提醒大家，我們資本分配策略的執行會對我們的財務費用產生負面影響。其他支出年增 2%，相對於收入下降 40 個基點，這主要是由於與 POS 銷售相關的收益增加所致。本季我們的實際稅率為 15.3%，低於 2024 年第三季的 18.6%。年比下降的主要原因是集團內部對股權操作的興趣以及來自 Lei do Bem 的更高收益。

Moving to slide 10. Our adjusted net cash position ended the quarter at BRL3.5 billion, decreasing BRL140 million sequentially despite BRL465 million in share buybacks executed in the quarter. Excluding these buybacks, adjusted net cash would have increased by BRL325 million.

切換到第10張投影片。截至本季末，我們調整後的淨現金部位為 35 億雷亞爾，儘管本季執行了 4.65 億雷亞爾的股票回購，但仍比上一季減少了 1.4 億雷亞爾。不計入這些股票回購，調整後的淨現金將增加 3.25 億雷亞爾。

Once again, I want to thank you all for your time and continued support. Our focus remains on executing our strategy effectively and in a value-accretive manner while listening closely to our clients, meeting their needs and ultimately creating long-term value for our shareholders.

再次感謝大家抽出時間並給予持續支持。我們將繼續專注於有效且增值地執行我們的策略，同時密切傾聽客戶的意見，滿足他們的需求，並最終為我們的股東創造長期價值。

With that said, we are now ready to open the call to questions.

接下來，我們將開始接受提問。

(Operator Instructions) Kaio Prato, UBS.

（操作說明）Kaio Prato，UBS。

Hi, everyone. Good evening. Thanks for the opportunity to ask questions here. I have two on my side, please. First, on your prepayment business, would you say that you are at the all-time high level of spreads in the business post the pricing adjustments now? And how do you see the sustainability of this level going forward, given the current competitive scenario and the potential beginning of the cycle? So this is the first.

大家好。晚安.感謝您提供這次提問的機會。我這邊有兩個人。首先，就您的預付款業務而言，您認為在價格調整後，目前的價差是否處於歷史最高水準？鑑於當前的競爭情況和潛在的周期開始，您認為這種水平能否持續下去？這是第一個。

And then my second, which is also linked. Looking forward, what do you think are the main drivers for earnings growth of the company apart from the policy rates that should be a clear support. So what do you think should be the main source of growth? Is this an acceleration in credit growth? Is this efficiency or any other initiatives? You can help us understand what should be the drivers for 2026, given the slowdown also on TPV that we are seeing, except from the policy rates would be good. Thank you.

然後是我的第二個，它也是關聯的。展望未來，除了政策利率這一明確的支撐因素外，您認為推動公司獲利成長的主要因素是什麼？那你認為成長的主要來源應該是什麼？這是信貸成長加速的表現嗎？這是為了提高效率還是為了其他方面的改善？鑑於我們目前看到的 TPV 成長放緩，除了政策利率之外，您能否幫助我們了解 2026 年的驅動因素是什麼？謝謝。

(technical difficulty) overall gross profit. But in terms of pricing specifically, I think what we did successfully was to pass through the increase in interest rates, but I don't think we are at the all-time high spreads.

（技術難題）總毛利。但就定價而言，我認為我們成功地將利率上升轉嫁給了消費者，但我認為我們目前的利差還沒有達到歷史最高水準。

The second question around earnings growth levers --

關於獲利成長槓桿的第二個問題--

Kaio, can you hear us?

Kaio，你聽得到我們說話嗎？

Now, I can hear you, but I think we missed the answer.

現在我可以聽到你的聲音了，但我認為我們錯過了答案。

Oh, okay. Sorry, we just got noticed that you weren't hearing. I think maybe Mateus --

哦好的。抱歉，我們剛剛發現您沒有聽到聲音。我想可能是馬特烏斯--

Can you hear me well?

你聽得清楚我說話嗎？

Worth replaying the answer.

值得重溫這個答案。

Yes. Now, I can hear you. If you can repeat, please.

是的。現在我可以聽到你說話了。如果可以的話，請再說一次。

Okay. Sorry for that. Let me replay the answer. So the first one around prepayments and pricing. I would not agree with you that we are at the all-time high spreads.

好的。抱歉。讓我再重複一次答案。第一個問題是關於預付款和定價的。我不同意你關於目前價差處於歷史最高水準的說法。

I think when we look at the gross profit yield, so gross profit as a percentage of TPV, it is higher than it was in the past at 1.26% for the third Q '25 versus, for example, 1.21% in the beginning of '24. But that increase has been mostly due to the increased penetration of banking and credit over time and not a result of prices on prepayments on a standalone basis. And I think this is consistent with the overall strategy.

我認為，當我們觀察毛利率（即毛利佔總營業額的百分比）時，它比過去要高，2025 年第三季為 1.26%，而 2024 年初為 1.21%。但這種成長主要是由於銀行和信貸的普及程度隨著時間的推移而提高，而不是預付款價格單獨上漲的結果。我認為這與整體策略是一致的。

I think what we did quite well was indeed to pass through the increase in interest rates that we saw in the country. But I wouldn't say it's all-time high. I think when we look at spreads, we think that they are at a healthy level.

我認為我們做得相當不錯的一點是，我們確實成功地應對了國內出現的利率上升。但我不會說這是歷史最高水準。我認為，從價差來看，我們認為它們處於健康的水平。

And then in terms of earnings growth levers for next year, I think we've been growing especially the credit portfolio in a pretty good pace according to the plan. But when you look at the contribution for credit in the P&L now in '25, it is still quite small because whenever we grow the portfolio, we upfront the provisions. Now, as we go into 2026, I think probably credit is going to be of a larger contribution to the overall P&L, simply as a result of maturing the offering and having a much higher base to start with.

至於明年的獲利成長動力，我認為我們一直在按照計劃以相當不錯的速度發展，尤其是信貸組合。但如果你看一下 2025 年損益表中信貸的貢獻，它仍然很小，因為每當我們擴大投資組合時，我們都會預先提列準備金。現在，隨著我們進入 2026 年，我認為信貸可能會對整體損益表做出更大的貢獻，這僅僅是因為產品日趨成熟，並且一開始就有了更高的基數。

And other than that, I think OpEx in general is something that we are paying special attention given the weaker macroenvironment. So we feel that there may be some levers in terms of OpEx management to boost earnings growth in 2026 as well.

除此之外，鑑於宏觀環境疲軟，我認為營運支出總體上是我們特別關注的面向。因此，我們認為在營運支出管理方面可能有一些槓桿可以促進 2026 年的獲利成長。

Guilherme Grespan, JP Morgan.

Guilherme Grespan，摩根大通。

Hi, hello, everyone. Thank you for the call. My question is going to be on the payments TPV and environment. I know this is basically a common question in every call, but we have been seeing a deceleration on part of the volumes, and we see some players starting to come up more hitting the tape. To mention a few, we have iFood going after, I think, a very important part of your base, which is restaurants. We have BTG launching -- acquiring. We have smaller players such as CloudWalk also appear a little bit more.

大家好。謝謝你的來電。我的問題將圍繞著支付TPV和環境。我知道這基本上是每次通話中都會被問到的常見問題，但我們看到部分交易量有所下降，而且我們看到一些球員開始更專注於比賽錄影。舉幾個例子來說，iFood 的目標是你們非常重要的客戶群—餐廳。我們正在啟動BTG收購專案。像 CloudWalk 這樣的小玩家也稍微多出現了一些。

So my question to you is, how you're sensing the competitive environment in your base, if you're feeling is there any specific player being an aggressor here? And how do you see the pricing trends going forward? Because the rate that Kaio mentioned, I think it's been postponed a little bit, the potential tailwind coming from the funding cost. So I wonder just to check if you see any environment for the spreads in the business to stay where they are or even increase in the next six months? Thank you.

所以我的問題是，你如何感受你所在基地的競爭環境？你覺得有沒有哪個玩家特別有侵略性？您如何看待未來的價格趨勢？因為正如 Kaio 所提到的，我認為這種情況可能會有所推遲，資金成本方面的潛在利多因素也可能會有所改善。所以我想問一下，您認為未來六個月內，該行業的價差是否有可能維持在目前水平，甚至進一步擴大？謝謝。

Thank you, Guilherme. Let me start maybe elaborating a little bit on market share and TPV dynamics and then pass it over to Mateus to talk a little bit about thoughts on pricing. So we still have to wait for the official ABECS numbers, right? But in our view, the third quarter should be roughly stable in terms of market share.

謝謝你，吉列爾梅。讓我先稍微詳細說明一下市場佔有率和 TPV 動態，然後把話題交給 Mateus，讓他談談對定價的看法。所以我們還要等待ABECS的官方數據，對吧？但我們認為，第三季市佔率應該會大致保持穩定。

In the second quarter, we did see a bigger market share loss as a result of our decision to reprice, as we've said before. This was sort of a one-time effect as we see it, in the quarter. We expect this to stabilize somewhat in the third quarter. And we reinstate that this decision was accretive overall for the business.

正如我們之前所說，由於我們決定重新定價，第二季我們的市佔率確實出現了更大的損失。我們認為，這只是本季的一次性影響。我們預計第三季情況會有所穩定。我們重申，這項決定總體上對公司業務是有利的。

That said, when we look ahead in terms of TPV growth, we continue to see gradual deceleration, and this is primarily a reflection of industry dynamics, meaning industry itself decelerating, but also a weaker macroenvironment, which we expect to impact more the smaller clients within our base, right? So I think that's the message regarding market share and TPV dynamics.

也就是說，展望未來，就 TPV 成長而言，我們繼續看到逐步放緩的趨勢，這主要反映了行業動態，意味著行業本身正在放緩，但也反映了較為疲軟的宏觀環境，我們預計這將對我們客戶群中的小型客戶產生更大的影響，對嗎？所以我認為這就是關於市場佔有率和TPV動態的資訊。

But looking ahead, we remain confident in our ability to continue to evolve in our plan consistently, like Mateus mentioned, more and more, we expect credit to be a driver of profitability and growth looking forward. And we're not with the sole purpose of pursuing market share at any cost. So profitability remains our priority.

但展望未來，我們仍然有信心繼續穩步推進我們的計劃，正如馬特烏斯所提到的，我們預計信貸將越來越成為未來獲利和成長的驅動力。我們並非以不惜一切代價追求市佔率為唯一目的。因此，獲利能力仍然是我們的首要任務。

And the path forward is not -- it's not simply through pricing adjustments, right? It should be through enhancing our value proposition to clients, evolving on our product offerings, scaling credit, evolving on our bundling strategy, and really making sure that we can consistently win clients within the segment overall, in line with our strategic priority.

而前進的道路並非只是透過價格調整，對吧？我們應該透過以下方式實現這一目標：增強我們對客戶的價值主張，改進我們的產品供應，擴大信貸規模，改進我們的捆綁銷售策略，並真正確保我們能夠持續贏得該細分市場的客戶，這與我們的策略重點相符。

And if I may add and then talk also about pricing, I think you mentioned other new players or new entrants in the market. I think we've seen these kinds of movements before, players bringing new offerings or expanding their sales footprint. They tend to come in waves. At any given point in time, there's always someone trying something new in the market, and I think this is normal. That said, when you look at the actual economics behind these new players or new initiatives, it seems that overall players remain rational, and I don't see anyone pursuing growth at any cost.

如果可以的話，我還想補充一點關於定價的問題，我想您提到了市場上的其他新玩家或新進入者。我認為我們以前也見過類似的趨勢，例如玩家推出新產品或擴大銷售範圍。它們往往一波接一波地出現。任何時候，市場上總會有人嘗試一些新的東西，我認為這很正常。也就是說，當你審視這些新玩家或新舉措背後的實際經濟因素時，你會發現總體而言，玩家們仍然保持理性，我沒有看到任何人不惜一切代價追求成長。

That said, when we talk about rate cuts, I think we've been vocal about this a couple of times, which is short term, for sure, there is a positive impact to us. Every 100 basis point cut in interest rates, there's a positive benefit of around BRL200 million to BRL250 million in EBT.

也就是說，當我們談到降息時，我認為我們已經多次公開談論過這個問題，這在短期內肯定會對我們產生積極影響。利率每調低 100 個基點，EBT 就會增加約 2 億至 2.5 億雷亞爾。

But in terms of overall spreads, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that we're going to keep the benefit from interest rates long term. I think it's a matter of timing, how long we can keep these prices until we pass it through.

但就整體利差而言，我認為假設我們能夠長期享受利率帶來的好處是不合理的。我認為關鍵在於時機，我們能把這些價格維持多久，直到把成本轉嫁給消費者。

So I think the message here is, yes, there's going to be a positive impact 2026 if rates goes down. I don't think we should assume that we're going to be able to keep those spreads longer term. I think overall, the level of spreads are healthy in our view.

所以我認為這裡傳達的訊息是，如果利率下降，2026 年將會產生正面影響。我認為我們不應該假設能夠長期維持這些價差。我認為總體而言，目前的價差水準在我們看來是健康的。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous Research.

雷納托·梅洛尼，自主研究。

Renato, we can't hear you.

雷納托，我們聽不到你說話。

(technical difficulty) I believe we are having some technical issues with Renato.

（技術故障）我認為我們在使用 Renato 時遇到了一些技術問題。

Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

愛德華多·羅斯曼，BTG。

Hi, everyone. My question, I think, would be to Pedro. Where do you believe the company stands in the organizational redesign, right? I think you've been highlighting over the last few quarters that the goal is to be like a stronger unified brand and product offering with a more kind of a team-oriented culture and trying to build like a truly kind of a customer-centric mindset. How do you feel about the progress so far on that front? Thanks.

大家好。我想，我的問題應該要問佩德羅。你認為公司在組織架構重組中處於什麼階段？我認為你在過去幾季一直強調，目標是打造一個更強大的統一品牌和產品組合，建立更注重團隊合作的文化，並努力建立真正以客戶為中心的思維模式。你覺得這方面目前的進展如何？謝謝。

Hi, Rosman. Thank you for the question. I think this is -- I think we evolved a lot. I think as you mentioned, we made a big shift from a kind of a BU organization, very much silo-centric in some ways to a fully functional organization as we have as of today, right? I think this is really helping us in terms of setting the strategy from a bundle perspective and how we actually put this bundle offering into our clients in the best way for them and for the company.

你好，羅斯曼。謝謝你的提問。我認為——我認為我們已經進化了很多。我認為正如您所提到的，我們已經從某種程度上以部門為中心、各自為政的業務單元組織，轉變為如今這種功能齊全的組織，對嗎？我認為這確實有助於我們從捆綁銷售的角度製定策略，以及如何以對客戶和公司最有利的方式將這種捆綁銷售產品提供給我們的客戶。

So I think in a nutshell, I think we are almost there. I think there are some pain points that we have to adjust over time. But in a nutshell, I think we are in the right direction.

所以總而言之，我認為我們已經接近目標了。我認為有些痛點需要我們隨著時間的推移進行調整。但總而言之，我認為我們正朝著正確的方向前進。

Antonio Ruette, Bank of America.

安東尼奧·魯埃特，美國銀行。

Hey, thank you for your time. So I have two questions on my side. So first on credit, you mentioned that now your credit product is more mature and it should start to represent more on your P&L. So if you look at your portfolio today, do you have a better estimate on what should be your cost of risk, your NPL and your ideal coverage ratio now that you have a better sense of what your portfolio should be?

嘿，謝謝你抽出時間。我這邊有兩個問題。首先關於信貸，您提到現在您的信貸產品更加成熟，應該會在您的損益表中佔據更大的份額。所以，如果你現在審視一下你的投資組合，在更好地了解你的投資組合應該是什麼樣子之後，你是否對你的風險成本、不良貸款率和理想的償付比率有了更準確的估計？

Also, I have a second question on your revenue composition. If you look at your accounting statement, you can see like revenues for transactions declining over 20% and revenues for the financial income growing more than 30%. I understand here that there is an allocation that you can do between these two revenues in terms of prepayment and MDR. But -- and the ideal answer here would be -- would look at both together. But if you were to split, what would explain the movements? If you could go through them, it would be great. Thank you.

另外，關於您的收入組成，我還有第二個問題。如果你查看你的會計報表，你會發現交易收入下降了 20% 以上，而金融收入增加了 30% 以上。我理解這裡可以在預付款和 MDR 這兩種收入之間進行分配。但是——而最理想的答案應該是——將兩者結合起來考慮。但如果你們分裂了，又該如何解釋這種分裂呢？如果你能仔細看看這些，那就太好了。謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Antonio. So let's just start with credit first. In terms of cost of risk, I think the expectation is that they should remain in the mid-teens going forward. I think we've mentioned this before, but part of the impact that we saw in second Q '25 was retroactive, movement that we did due to macro and now it's normalized in third Q '25.

謝謝你的提問，安東尼奧。那麼，我們就先從信用談起吧。就風險成本而言，我認為預計未來它們將保持在十幾個百分點左右。我想我們之前已經提到過這一點，但我們在 2025 年第二季看到的某些影響是追溯性的，是由於宏觀經濟因素而採取的行動，現在在 2025 年第三季已經正常化了。

That said, when we look ahead, we do expect cost of risk to stay above the levels we had in the first quarter of '25 due to the macro-driven updates we did in our credit models. So that's the expectation on that end.

也就是說，展望未來，由於我們對信貸模型進行了宏觀驅動的更新，我們預計風險成本將保持在 2025 年第一季的水平之上。所以這就是那邊的預期。

In terms of NPLs, I think the answer is actually dependent on the rate of growth for the portfolio. When we look at the expected credit losses that we have for the product, they should be in the very high singles or either very low-double digits.

就不良貸款而言，我認為答案實際上取決於投資組合的成長率。當我們查看該產品的預期信用損失時，它們應該在個位數的極高水準或兩位數的極低水準。

When you look at the NPL metric, it now stands at around 5%. But the main reason for that is because we have still a lot of vintages that are not fully mature, right? The portfolio is still growing. So as we mature, NPL over 90s, they should continue to grow probably towards that very high-single-digit mark.

從不良貸款率來看，目前約為 5%。但主要原因是我們還有很多年份的葡萄酒尚未完全成熟，對吧？投資組合仍在不斷成長。因此，隨著我們日趨成熟，不良貸款率超過 90%，它們應該會繼續成長，可能會達到非常高的個位數水準。

But in terms of targets, I think we're not really targeting a level of cost of risk or a level of NPL metrics. I think what we're trying to maximize here is the NPV of the cohorts and especially the NPV of the client relationships. And I think a good point around that is that when you look at the interest rates that we charge for the product, we had an increase in the cost of risk in the past two quarters, but that increase was also followed by an increase in the interest rates that we're charging to our clients. And as long as we see this opportunity to make these kinds of trade-offs, we're happy to do as long as it increases the NPV for our client relationships. So that's on the credit piece.

但就目標而言，我認為我們並沒有真正設定風險成本水準或不良貸款指標水準。我認為我們在這裡努力最大化的是用戶群的淨現值，尤其是客戶關係的淨現值。我認為，在這方面，一個很好的觀點是，當你查看我們產品收取的利率時，你會發現，在過去的兩個季度裡，我們的風險成本有所增加，但與此同時，我們也提高了向客戶收取的利率。只要我們看到這種權衡取捨的機會，只要它能提高我們與客戶關係的淨現值，我們就樂意這樣做。以上是關於信用部分的說明。

On the revenue side, I think you touched on the answer, which is these movements between transaction revenue and financial income is mostly a result of rebalancing between the two lines. Now that we have most of the volume from the company flowing through a single platform, we have a lot more flexibility in how we set up these bundles and how we allocate revenues internally.

關於收入方面，我認為你已經觸及了答案，那就是交易收入和金融收入之間的這些變動主要是由於這兩條收入線之間的重新平衡所造成的。現在公司的大部分交易量都透過一個平台進行，我們在設置這些捆綁包以及內部分配收入方面有了更大的靈活性。

So I know you asked us to try to segregate these lines. But when you look at the bundles that we're offering nowadays, there is no such thing. So the client usually pays a single fee and embedded in that fee, we have the prepayment revenues and the transactional revenues. So honestly, I think the best way to look at it is looking at both lines combined.

我知道您要求我們盡量將這些線分開。但看看我們現在提供的套餐，就不會有這種說法了。因此，客戶通常支付一筆費用，該費用包含預付款收入和交易收入。所以說實話，我認為最好的方法是把這兩條線結合起來看。

Marcelo Mizrahi, Bradesco BBI.

馬塞洛·米茲拉希 (Marcelo Mizrahi)，布拉德斯科 BBI。

Hello, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. I have a question regarding the changes on the stages of the credit. We saw in the last quarters, especially in this last one, the cure of the Stage 2, Stage 2, a higher amount. So can you guys please explain a little bit the concept of what's the kind of the credit that is classified at Stage 2 that are the ones that come back to Stage 1. So why we were seeing such a lot of changes on the stages in the last two quarters? And probably it's because of the type of the credit. So just to understand how do you guys classify this credit? You know that -- we know that looking forward, the company will grow a lot. So it's very important to understand.

大家好。謝謝您給我這個機會。我有一個關於信用階段變更的問題。我們看到，在過去的幾個季度，特別是最後一個季度，第二階段的治癒率更高。所以，請各位解釋一下，在第二階段被歸類為哪些類型的信用，也就是那些會回到第一階段的信用，其概念是什麼？那麼，為什麼我們在過去兩季中看到舞台上發生了這麼多變化呢？很可能是因為信用類型的緣故。所以我想了解一下，你們是如何對這種信用進行分類的？你也知道－我們也知道，展望未來，公司將會成長壯大。所以理解這一點非常重要。

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for the question, Mizrahi. So around Stage 2 and 3, especially, I think when you look at Stage 3, it's much simpler. So most of the increase that we had in Stage 3 amounts from the balances overdue over 90 days. So that's pretty much the maturation of the portfolio.

是的，當然。謝謝你的提問，米茲拉希。所以到了第二階段和第三階段，尤其是第三階段，我覺得就簡單多了。因此，第三階段增加的大部分金額來自逾期超過 90 天的餘額。至此，該投資組合基本上就成熟了。

When it comes to Stage 2, I think we have two different factors here. The first is actually the maturation of the portfolio as well, but we also have the entry of some credit restrictions affecting a portion of clients in the market. So for example, if a merchant defaults somewhere else, even if that merchant is not defaulting our portfolio, we move that client to Stage 2. And this can create a lot of volatility between the stages because, as you know, credit restrictions in Brazil are quite volatile. So that's the main explanation.

至於第二階段，我認為這裡有兩個不同的因素。首先，投資組合也已到期；其次，部分信貸限制措施也影響市場上的部分客戶。例如，如果某個商家在其他地方違約，即使該商家沒有違約我們的投資組合，我們也會將該客戶移至第二階段。而且，由於巴西的信貸限制波動較大，這可能會在各個階段之間造成很大的波動。這就是主要原因。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉。

Hi, guys. Hi, Pedro, Lia, Mateus. Just to go back to Lia's comment on the credit side, I think it was something about increasing the pricing, right? I just wanted to touch base on that and elaborate a bit more on what exactly this scenario refers to. I mean, should we interpret this repricing or upward pricing as a reflection of a somewhat riskier environment?

嗨，大家好。嗨，佩德羅、莉亞、馬特烏斯。回到 Lia 關於信貸方面的評論，我記得好像是關於提高價格的，對吧？我只是想簡單提一下，並進一步闡述一下這種情況究竟指的是什麼。我的意思是，我們是否應該將這種重新定價或提價解讀為市場環境風險增加的體現？

And just to double-click on that, how sensitive have the clients been to these adjustments, right? So I think when we see, for example, on the retail end, not a good comparison, but new bank has been like testing a lot pricing upwards, and we don't see too much elasticity on that. So it will be good to hear on the elasticity of your product and how sensitive clients have been to these adjustments.

再進一步探討一下，客戶對這些調整的敏感度如何？所以我覺得，例如，在零售端，雖然不太好比較，但新銀行一直在嘗試提高定價，而我們並沒有看到太大的彈性。所以，很想了解貴公司產品的彈性以及顧客對這些調整的敏感度。

Daniel, Mateus here. Thanks for the question. So I think that's actually a great point, which is I think credit is probably the product that we started the latest. So naturally, when we think around pricing credit, it started as a cost-plus model, and we are now starting to test real sensitivity from our clients and test the right pricing point.

丹尼爾，我是馬特烏斯。謝謝你的提問。所以我認為這確實是一個很好的觀點，那就是信貸可能是我們最新推出的產品。因此，當我們考慮信用定價時，很自然地，它最初是一個成本加成模型，而現在我們開始測試客戶的真實敏感度，並測試合適的定價點。

So I think what we did in second Q and third Q, if you look at slide 8 from the earnings presentation, the average yield of the portfolio increased from 2.6% in the first Q to 2.9% in the third Q, even though we have a higher mix of credit cards in the portfolio, which have no interest right for the part that is on to.

所以我認為，我們在第二季和第三季所做的，如果你看一下收益報告的第 8 張投影片，投資組合的平均收益率從第一季的 2.6% 增加到第三季的 2.9%，儘管我們的投資組合中信用卡的比例更高，而信用卡目前沒有利息。

And I think that happens at the same time that the macroenvironment is becoming more complex, but it's not a response from the macroenvironment. I think the reason why we've been able to price upwards is mostly because we are maturing on the overall pricing process for the product. And I think like you mentioned, other players were successful in terms of increasing pricing without too many sensitivity from the customers. And I think we're figuring out the same thing on our side.

我認為這種情況與宏觀環境變得越來越複雜同時發生，但這並不是宏觀環境的回應。我認為我們能夠提高價格的主要原因是，我們在產品整體定價流程方面日益成熟。而且我認為正如你所說，其他玩家在漲價方面取得了成功，而沒有引起顧客太多的敏感反應。我認為我們這邊也在研究同樣的問題。

If I may follow up, have you just tested like way higher yields on the credit and to some group of clients, to control group of clients? How have this test performed so far? If you could comment on that, it would be great as well.

如果我可以追問一下，您是否測試過對部分客戶群（作為對照組）提供更高收益率的信貸產品？目前為止，這項測試進行得如何？如果您也能就此發表意見，那就太好了。

Yeah. I think we are early beginnings on the testing side. We avoided to do like huge spikes in prices because of selection bias on the cohorts. So I think what we had here were gradual increases. But again, I think it's early beginnings in terms of actually figuring out how much the clients are willing to pay in the product. And I think there's more opportunity to come.

是的。我認為我們在測試方面還處於起步階段。我們避免了因群體選擇偏差而導致價格大幅飆升的情況。所以我認為這裡呈現的是逐步成長的趨勢。但話說回來，我認為這只是初步階段，我們還需要弄清楚客戶願意為該產品支付多少錢。我認為未來還有更多機會。

Renato Meloni, with Autonomous Research.

Renato Meloni，來自 Autonomous Research。

Hey, everyone. Can you guys hear me now?

大家好。你們現在聽得到我說話嗎？

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Sorry, I had an issue with my mic earlier. I wanted to ask on the COGS reduction, and you mentioned about the efficiency gains on logistics or transaction technology costs. So I wonder if you could expand a little bit on those gains. And I'm trying to understand here if this is a one-off or you can still keep doing this and maybe what's a normalized level that you could see?

抱歉，我剛才麥克風出了點問題。我想問一下關於降低銷售成本的問題，您提到了物流效率的提高或交易技術成本的降低。所以我想知道您能否再詳細談談這些收益。我想了解這是否只是個例，還是可以繼續這樣做，以及可以看到的正常水平是多少？

Thanks for the question, Renato. So in terms of cost to serve, I think broadly speaking, when we look at the metric, excluding the credit provisions, we're starting to see signs of operational leverage, particularly in customer service, where the adoption of AI has been driving a lot of efficiency gains and in logistics, where scale is generating also meaningful cost benefits.

謝謝你的提問，雷納托。因此，就服務成本而言，我認為總體而言，當我們查看該指標時，排除信貸準備金，我們開始看到營運槓桿的跡象，尤其是在客戶服務方面，人工智慧的採用已經推動了效率的大幅提升；在物流方面，規模也帶來了顯著的成本效益。

In the quarter, specifically, we also benefited from lower transactional costs in tech and lower provisions for acquiring losses, which were partially offset by higher amortization of intangible as we are completing a lot of projects that were started in previous years.

具體來說，本季度我們也受益於技術交易成本降低和收購損失準備金減少，但這些收益被無形資產攤銷增加部分抵消，因為我們正在完成許多前幾年啟動的專案。

Now, in terms of what is one-off or recurring, I think the only portion of cost to serve that is not recurring is the level of provisions for acquiring losses because they were positively impacted by a specific collection initiative in the quarter.

至於哪些是一次性支出，哪些是經常性支出，我認為服務成本中唯一非經常性支出的部分是收購損失準備金，因為該部分損失在本季度受到了特定催收措施的積極影響。

And when we look ahead, we do expect more amortization of technological projects to come because we are more and more completing a lot of projects that were started a couple of quarters ago. So this trend of elevated D&A should continue throughout the next year.

展望未來，我們預計會有更多技術項目的攤銷，因為我們正在逐步完成幾個季度前啟動的許多項目。因此，這種股息和攤銷水準上升的趨勢應該會持續到明年。

So I think the message in terms of cost of service, overall, we are indeed seeing a lot of efficiency and operational leverage coming, but I wouldn't take the third quarter levels as a new normal.

所以我認為，就服務成本而言，總體而言，我們確實看到了效率和營運槓桿作用的大幅提升，但我不會將第三季的水平視為新的常態。

Neha Agarwala, HSBC.

Neha Agarwala，匯豐銀行。

Hi, team. Congratulations on the results, and thank you for taking my question. A quick one on asset quality. I think in your opening remarks, you mentioned there was one particular case regarding nonpayment or delay in payments. Could you elaborate on that? What happened?

大家好。恭喜你取得好成績，也謝謝你回答我的問題。簡單談談資產品質。我認為您在開場白中提到過一個關於不付款或延遲付款的特殊案例。能詳細解釋一下嗎？發生了什麼事？

And my second question is on the volumes. I think Lia mentioned that we expect deceleration in volume growth in the coming quarters. For the MSMB segment, we are already at 11% year on year for this quarter. What do you mean by deceleration in the coming year? Should we expect something like 8%, 9% or it could go lower than that? Any color about the level in the next two, three quarters would be very helpful. Thank you so much.

我的第二個問題是關於銷量的。我認為Lia提到過，我們預計未來幾季銷售成長將會放緩。就中小微型企業板塊而言，本季我們已實現年增 11%。你所說的來年增速放緩是什麼意思？我們應該預期收益率在 8% 或 9% 左右，還是會更低？如果能提供一些關於接下來兩到三個季度比賽水準的預測，將會非常有幫助。太感謝了。

Hi, Neha. Thanks for the question. I will start with the asset quality, and then Lia can add on the TPV side.

你好，Neha。謝謝你的提問。我將先從資產品質入手，然後 Lia 可以補充 TPV 方面的資訊。

So on the asset quality, I think it's quite simple. We had a specific issue with a client in the specialized desk, which delayed a couple of days, but it's already normalized. This was not a big case. So we're talking around 40 basis points of the NPL 15 to 90 days. So if you do the math, it's around between BRL2 million and BRL4 million, so a very small low one.

所以，就資產品質而言，我認為很簡單。我們專業服務台的一位客戶出現了一個具體問題，導致延誤了幾天，但現在已經恢復正常。這並非一起大案。所以我們說的是不良貸款率在 15 到 90 天之間大約 40 個基點。所以算一下，大概在 200 萬到 400 萬巴西雷亞爾之間，所以金額很小。

But again, I think the main message here is that it affected the NPL 15, 90 days in the quarter, but it's already -- it has already been addressed.

但我認為，這裡的主要訊息是，它影響了該季度的不良貸款率 15 至 90 天，但這個問題已經解決——已經解決。

Good. Neha, just complementing on the question regarding TPV dynamics and what to say looking ahead, right? It's hard to pinpoint a number, but the general trend and what we've been monitoring and what we've been seeing is growth which is slightly above the industry growth. The general trend of deceleration is mostly driven by the industry, right? We are seeing this year more specific macro impact to our client base, but we expect that to soften throughout next year.

好的。Neha，我只是在補充關於TPV動態以及展望未來該如何看待的問題，對吧？很難確定一個具體的數字，但總體趨勢以及我們一直在監測和看到的是，成長速度略高於行業平均。整體成長放緩的趨勢主要受產業因素驅動，對嗎？今年我們看到宏觀經濟對我們的客戶群產生了更具體的影響，但我們預計這種情況將在明年有所緩解。

But in general, I think what we can say is industry deceleration as we've been vocal about for several quarters already and our growth sustaining above the industry with slight market share gain in the long run. So I think that's the overall trend that we can talk about. Pinpointing whether it's 11%, whether it's more or less, I think it's a little bit more difficult. Our perspectives on industry growth for next year is on high-single digits, low-double digits, but hard to pinpoint specific figures. We prefer to wait and see how the year will close out.

但總的來說，我認為我們可以說行業增速放緩，正如我們幾個季度以來一直強調的那樣，而我們的成長將持續高於行業平均水平，並且從長遠來看，市場份額將略有增長。所以我認為這就是我們可以討論的總體趨勢。準確地確定是 11% 還是更高或更低，我認為這有點困難。我們對明年產業成長的看法是接近兩位數，但很難確定具體數字。我們更願意靜觀其變，看看今年最終會如何收尾。

Gustavo Schroden, Citi.

古斯塔沃·施羅登，花旗集團。

Hi. Thanks for taking my question. Sorry to insist about the interest rates topic, but I think that we've seen changes regarding the expectations for interest rates next year. So maybe the easing cycle should be less pronounced than before expected, right? So especially assuming yesterday's minutes from the Central Bank. So my question here is that you are -- I mean, I think that everybody here is modeling and thinking on Stone assuming this low interest rates next year. But if you take into consideration that the average interest rates next year should be also even slightly above this year.

你好。謝謝您回答我的問題。很抱歉我一直糾結於利率這個話題，但我認為我們已經看到人們對明年利率的預期發生了變化。所以，寬鬆週期或許不會像之前預期的那麼明顯，對吧？尤其要考慮到昨天央行公佈的會議紀錄。所以我的問題是——我的意思是，我認為這裡每個人都在假設明年利率保持低位的情況下對斯通進行建模和思考。但考慮到明年的平均利率也應該會略高於今年。

So my question is how sensitive is Stone funding costs to this average interest rates for next year? So again, we've seen you increasing prices. Lia mentioned about the higher interest rates for SMBs. And so my point here is, in this scenario of a higher average interest rates, how should we think the funding costs and prices next year?

所以我的問題是，Stone的融資成本對明年的平均利率有多敏感？所以，我們又看到你們提高了價格。莉亞提到了中小企業面臨的較高利率問題。因此，我的觀點是，在平均利率上升的情況下，我們該如何看待明年的融資成本和價格？

Thanks for the question, Gustavo. So first of all, in terms of the actual environment, I don't think we have a strong view. So we set up the operation in a way that we respond to the changes that we have in interest rates. We don't spend a lot of time trying to forecast the scenario. But indeed, if you were to look at the scenario now, there is a small decline embedded in the yield curve.

謝謝你的提問，古斯塔沃。首先，就實際環境而言，我認為我們還沒有明確的看法。因此，我們制定了相應的營運策略，以便能夠應對利率的變化。我們不會花太多時間去預測未來情境。但實際上，如果你看一下現在的情況，殖利率曲線中確實存在小幅下降的趨勢。

And our sensitivity to that decline is that for every 100 basis points reduction in interest rates, all else being equal, so meaning no price reductions, we have a positive impact in our pretax earnings of around BRL200 million and BRL250 million.

我們對利率下降的敏感度是，在其他條件不變的情況下（即不降價），利率每下降 100 個基點，我們的稅前利潤就會增加約 2 億至 2.5 億雷亞爾。

Now, in terms of what's actually going to happen, I think our intention and our desire is to keep our time. So we tend to pass it through to clients, but there is kind of a lag every time interest rates decline. But like I said a couple of answers ago, long term, when you look at the actual gross profit yield that we're having on the payment side, we think it's in a very healthy level. So I don't think it's reasonable to assume that we're going to keep it long term.

至於接下來會發生什麼，我認為我們的意圖和願望是守住我們的時間。所以我們傾向於把利率降下來轉給客戶，但每次利率下降都會有一定的延遲。但就像我之前幾個回答中提到的那樣，從長遠來看，當我們審視支付方面的實際毛利率時，我們認為它處於非常健康的水平。所以我認為假設我們會長期保留它是不合理的。

As for the trend for financial expenses, again, I think it's very dependent on the level of interest rates. So we're going to see the scenario and adjust accordingly.

至於金融支出的趨勢，我認為它很大程度上取決於利率水準。所以我們會觀察情況，並做出相對應的調整。

Great, Mateus. Just let me do a follow-up here because you said the sensitivity that you mentioned for each 100-basis-point decrease, it is for, I mean, end of period interest rates or average interest rates?

太好了，馬特烏斯。我再補充一點，您剛才提到的每下降 100 個基點的敏感性，是指期末利率還是平均利率？

It is for average. So whenever we have an average decline of 100 basis points, then we will have the impact for the full year.

這是平均水平。因此，每當平均下降 100 個基點時，就會對全年產生影響。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

Tito Labarta，高盛集團。

Hi, good evening. Thank you for the call and taking my question. My question is on your gross profit, right? I mean you're still on track to deliver your guidance for the year, but it has been decelerating. Given some of the questions on slower TPV growth, rates are stable, you're mostly done repricing, should we expect the gross profit to continue to decelerate a bit from here, at least all else equal, just given the trends in the industry? Should we expect any positive seasonality in 4Q? And we did see a bit of a jump in your loan book this quarter.

您好，晚上好。感謝您的來電和解答我的問題。我的問題是關於你們的毛利，對嗎？我的意思是，你們仍然有望實現今年的業績目標，但速度已經放緩。考慮到 TPV 成長放緩、利率穩定、重新定價基本完成等問題，我們是否應該預期毛利會繼續略微放緩，至少在其他條件不變的情況下，考慮到行業趨勢？我們是否預期第四季會出現任何積極的季節性波動？本季您的貸款餘額確實有所成長。

Like at what point do you think you could get to where the loan book is enough that it starts to boost that gross profit, right? I think it's still -- it's growing fast, but from a low base, right? So just to think about the evolution of gross profit given where we are today and when that can maybe inflect and maybe grow faster from here?

你覺得貸款規模要達到什麼程度才能開始提升毛利呢？我認為它仍然——它增長很快，但起點很低，對吧？那麼，讓我們思考一下，在當前情況下，毛利將如何演變，以及它何時可能會轉變並加速成長？

Tito, thanks for the question. So I think when you look at the gross profit yield, usually 4Q is seasonally lower because we have more debit and PIX transactions in the mix, which tend to have a lower take rate on the payment side. But I think in general, when we look long term, I think the expectation is that payment spreads, they are at a healthy place. So we don't see a lot of pressure, but also not a lot of upside in that part of the business. I think what's going to be the defining factor for '26 on that end is actually the interest rate movements that we just discussed.

蒂托，謝謝你的提問。所以我覺得，從毛利率來看，通常第四季度的毛利率會因季節性因素而降低，因為第四季度借記卡和 PIX 交易的佔比更高，而這些交易的支付效率往往較低。但我認為，總的來說，從長遠來看，預計支付差額將處於健康狀態。因此，我們沒有看到太大的壓力，但也沒有看到這部分業務有太大的成長空間。我認為，決定 2026 年情勢的關鍵因素實際上是我們剛才討論的利率走勢。

But other than that, I think the expectation is indeed that banking and credit will continue to grow at a faster pace than the TPV growth. And then over time, that should be accretive to gross profit yields. In terms of the credit that you asked, I think we are already starting to see the signs of a bigger contribution in the P&L.

但除此之外，我認為人們確實預期銀行業和信貸業的成長速度將繼續快於總市值成長速度。隨著時間的推移，這應該會增加毛利率。關於您提到的信貸方面，我認為我們已經開始看到它在損益表中做出更大貢獻的跡象。

So if you look at the revenue jump versus the delta in provisions that we had between the second Q and the third Q, it was already significant. Of course, when you look at gross profit as a whole, it is still a very small factor. But I think it has already started, and I think it gets more significant throughout 2026.

因此，如果你看一下營收成長與第二季和第三季之間的撥備差額，你會發現這已經非常顯著了。當然，從整體毛利來看，這仍然是一個很小的因素。但我認為這種情況已經開始，而且我認為在 2026 年會變得更加明顯。

Thanks Mateus. That's helpful. And yes, I understand the negative seasonality on the gross profit yield, but you should also have some positive seasonality on volumes. So net-net, I mean, not asking for guidance, but just a little bit how that could potentially impact gross profit in 4Q?

謝謝馬特烏斯。那很有幫助。是的，我理解毛利率存在負季節性，但銷量也應該存在一些正季節性。所以總而言之，我的意思是，我不是在尋求指導，只是想了解這可能會對第四季度的毛利產生怎樣的潛在影響？

Yes. I think when you look at gross profit on a nominal basis, then the seasonality in the first Q is positive for sure. I think when you look at the yields, then you have a negative seasonality because of the mix. But overall, I think if you're thinking about nominal terms, then the seasonality for first Q is positive.

是的。我認為，如果從名義毛利的角度來看，那麼第一季的季節性肯定是正面的。我認為，從產量來看，由於品種組合的原因，存在負面的季節性影響。但總的來說，我認為如果你從名目角度考慮，那麼第一季的季節性是正向的。

Pedro Leduc, Itaú.

佩德羅·勒杜克，伊塔烏。

Thanks, guys. Good evening, everybody. Congrats on the results. Two quick questions. I know you guys have lifted the 2027 guidance once you did the Linx deal. I know it's not in the presentation here. But wondering if you plan on reinstating it at some point, maybe with the 4Q release, if it's '27, maybe it's something another period of time? It seems like you're tracking for this year extremely well and for most of the 2027 figures as well. But just trying to get a sense if you guys plan on reinstating it, if it's in the same time period, same inflows.

謝謝各位。各位晚上好。恭喜取得好成績。兩個問題，簡單問一下。我知道你們在完成 Linx 交易後已經提高了 2027 年的業績預期。我知道這裡簡報裡沒有提到。但我想知道您是否計劃在某個時候恢復它，也許是在第四季度發佈時，如果是 2027 年，也許是在其他時間段？看來你今年的進度控制得非常好，而且對 2027 年的大部分數據預測也相當準確。我只是想了解一下，你們是否計劃恢復這項服務，是否還是在相同的時間段內，相同的資金流入。

And then the second question, kind of tying up to this one as well. In that previous '27 slide, you talked about a 20% effective tax rate. You're running at 15%. In the meanwhile, we're having changes in taxation for several of the Brazilian entities. Just trying to get a sense from you how we can think about this income tax rate maybe next year and then thinking whenever you guys plan on releasing a longer-term guidance. Thank you.

第二個問題，其實也跟這個問題有點關聯。在先前的 '27' 幻燈片中，您提到了 20% 的有效稅率。你目前的運行速度是 15%。同時，我們部分巴西實體的稅收政策也發生了變化。我只是想了解一下，明年我們該如何看待所得稅稅率，以及你們何時會發布更長期的指導意見。謝謝。

Hi, Pedro. Pedro here. I'll address the first part of the question, then I'll turn it over to Mateus. I think it's true that TPV performance has been more challenging than we initially anticipated back in 2023. And I think as Lia mentioned, partly, I think it's due to the macro environment, which is worse than we initially expected. But we want to see how the year will close out first before we can talk more concretely about 2027 guidance revision, right?

你好，佩德羅。我是佩德羅。我先回答問題的第一部分，然後把問題交給馬特烏斯。我認為，TPV 的表現確實比我們在 2023 年最初預期的更具挑戰性。正如莉亞提到的那樣，我認為部分原因是宏觀環境造成的，而宏觀環境比我們最初預期的還要糟糕。但我們想先看看今年年底的情況，然後再更具體地討論 2027 年的業績指引調整，對吧？

So in fact, we plan to adjust gross profit indicator to reflect only continuing operations. And we may take the opportunity for a more comprehensive review of 2027 guidance when we do that. But that said, I think it's important to note that when we look at the long-term plan as a whole, our execution remains broadly on track with the credit book, deposit base and the overall profitability, I think we are on the right track since we established back in 2023.

因此，我們計劃調整毛利指標，使其僅反映持續經營業務。屆時，我們或許可以藉此機會對 2027 年的指導方針進行更全面的審查。但即便如此，我認為值得注意的是，當我們從整體上看待長期計劃時，我們的執行總體上仍然按計劃進行，信貸賬簿、存款基礎和整體盈利能力，我認為自 2023 年成立以來，我們一直走在正確的道路上。

I'll hand it over to Mateus.

我會把它交給馬特烏斯。

Thank you, Pedro.

謝謝你，佩德羅。

Yeah. So on the effective tax rate, I think two messages here. So yes, we are indeed operating below the 20% mark that we provided at the long-term guidance. And if you look at the 4Q, usually 4Q tends to be lower than third Q because of seasonality and also we have more [lead] demand in the last quarter.

是的。所以關於實際稅率，我認為這裡有兩點需要說明。所以，是的，我們目前的營運水準確實低於我們長期指導中給出的 20% 的目標值。如果你看一下第四季度，通常第四季度的業績會低於第三季度，這是因為季節性因素，而且我們在最後一個季度對鉛的需求也會更高。

But longer term, if we're thinking about the effective tax rate for 2026 and onwards, I think it's still too early to provide a precise view as there are too many moving pieces. I think you have also seen the number of proposed changes that are being discussed through provisional measures and draft bills.

但從長遠來看，如果我們考慮 2026 年及以後的實際稅率，我認為現在給出精確的估計還為時過早，因為影響因素太多。我想您也已經看到了目前正在通過臨時措施和法案草案討論的許多擬議變更。

But that said, when we take everything into account, we continue to believe that the effective tax rate should land in mid- to high-teens over time. More specific than that, I think we still need more visibility on how the proposed changes will ultimately unfold. But that's the perspective we have at this moment.

但即便如此，綜合所有因素來看，我們仍然認為，隨著時間的推移，實際稅率應該會穩定在十幾到二十幾的水平。更具體地說，我認為我們仍然需要更清楚地了解擬議的變更最終將如何展開。但這就是我們目前的看法。

Okay. Mateus, thank you. So mid- to high-teens without seeing if there's any changes, right?

好的。馬特烏斯，謝謝你。所以，在不觀察是否有任何變化的情況下，就等到十幾歲到二十幾歲，對嗎？

Yeah. I think mid- to high teens broadly, then whether it's going to be mid or high, I think it's dependent on the changes.

是的。我認為大致會在十幾歲到二十幾歲之間，至於具體是十幾歲還是二十幾歲，我認為這取決於具體的變化。

Thank you. The question-and-answer session is now closed. We would like to hand the floor back to Pedro Zinner for closing remarks.

謝謝。問答環節已結束。現在我們把發言權交還給佩德羅·齊納，讓他做總結發言。

Well, thank you all for participating in the call and for the questions made. And I'm looking forward with the team to see you in our full year-end results in March next year. Okay. Thank you.

感謝各位參與電話會議並提出問題。我和團隊期待明年三月與您分享我們完整的年度業績報告。好的。謝謝。

Stone's conference call is now closed. We thank you for your participation and wish you a good evening.

斯通的電話會議現已結束。感謝您的參與，祝您晚安。