StoneCo Ltd (STNE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good evening, everyone. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to StoneCo's fourth quarter 2024 earnings conference call. By now, everyone should have access to our earnings release. The company also posted a presentation to go along with its call. All material can be found online at investors.stone.com.

大家晚上好。感謝您的支持。歡迎參加 StoneCo 2024 年第四季財報電話會議。現在，每個人都應該可以看到我們的收益報告了。該公司還發布了一份配合其電話會議的簡報。所有資料均可在 investor.stone.com 上找到。

Throughout this conference call, the company will be presenting non-IFRS financial information, including adjusted net income, adjusted net cash, and adjusted basic EPS. These are important financial measures for the company but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information appears in today's press release.

在整個電話會議期間，公司將提供非國際財務報告準則的財務信息，包括調整後的淨收入、調整後的淨現金和調整後的基本每股收益。這些是公司的重要財務指標，但不是 IFRS 定義的財務指標。今天的新聞稿中公佈了該公司非國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊與國際財務報告準則 (IFRS) 財務資訊的對帳表。

Finally, before we begin our formal remarks, I would like to remind everyone that today's discussion may include forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance, and therefore you should not put undue reliance on them. These statements are subject to numerous risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from the company's expectations. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings press release.

最後，在我們開始正式發言之前，我想提醒大家，今天的討論可能包括前瞻性陳述。這些前瞻性陳述並不能保證未來的表現，因此您不應過度依賴它們。這些聲明受到多種風險和不確定因素的影響，可能導致實際結果與公司預期有重大差異。請參閱公司收益新聞稿中的前瞻性陳述揭露。

In addition, many of the risks regarding the business are disclosed in the company's Form 20-F filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which is available at www.sec.gov. In hindsight, I would like to highlight that the full conference call will last until 7:15 PM BRT time, by which time the company will take no further questions. Analysts that are still in line after that time will have their questions addressed by the IR team.

此外，該公司向美國證券交易委員會提交的 20-F 表格中揭露了許多與業務相關的風險，該表格可在 www.sec.gov 上查閱。回想起來，我想強調的是，整個電話會議將持續到巴西里約時間晚上 7:15，屆時公司將不再接受其他問題。在此時間之後仍在排隊的分析師的問題將由 IR 團隊解答。

Joining the call today is Stone's CEO, Pedro Zinner; the CFO and IRO, Mateus Schwening; the Strategy and Marketing Officer, Lia Matos; and the Head of IR, Roberta Noronha.

今天參加電話會議的有 Stone 的執行長 Pedro Zinner；財務長兼稅務顧問 Mateus Schwening；策略與行銷長 Lia Matos；以及投資者關係主管 Roberta Noronha。

I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Pedro Zinner. Please proceed.

現在我想將會議交給主持人佩德羅·津納 (Pedro Zinner)。請繼續。

Thank you, operator, and good evening. As detailed in our annual shareholder letter, 2024 was a pivotal year of execution, marked by significant progress despite market challenges. We strengthen our position for sustainable growth, successfully executing our strategy, delivering exceptional client service, and generating value for shareholders.

謝謝接線員，晚上好。正如我們的年度股東信中所詳述的那樣，2024 年是執行的關鍵一年，儘管面臨市場挑戰，但仍取得了重大進展。我們加強了可持續成長的地位，成功執行了我們的策略，提供卓越的客戶服務，並為股東創造價值。

Our key accomplishments reflect substantial progress across our three strategic priorities: MSMB market leadership, enhanced client engagement, and scalable platform growth. This is clearly demonstrated by the achievements against our 2024 targets for MSMB card TPV, deposits, MSMB take rates, credit portfolio, adjusted administrative expenses, and adjusted net income. With the exception of MSMB card TPV, we exceeded expectations across all other key performance indicators, demonstrating successful strategy execution.

我們的主要成就反映了我們在三大策略重點方面取得的實質進展：MSMB 市場領導地位、增強的客戶參與度和可擴展的平台成長。我們在實現 2024 年 MSMB 卡 TPV、存款、MSMB 接受率、信貸組合、調整後的管理費用和調整後的淨收入目標方面所取得的成就清楚地證明了這一點。除 MSMB 卡 TPV 外，我們其他所有關鍵績效指標均超出預期，證明策略執行成功。

In 2024, MSMB TPV reached BRL403 billion, representing 15% year-over-year growth. While this fell slightly short of our BRL412 billion guidance due to the faster-than-expected adoption of peaks, total MSMB TPV exceeded expectations, reaching BRL454 billion, a 22% year-over-year increase.

2024年，MSMB TPV 達到4,030億雷亞爾，年增15%。雖然由於峰值採用速度快於預期，這一數字略低於我們 4,120 億雷亞爾的預期，但 MSMB TPV 總額超出預期，達到 4,540 億雷亞爾，年增 22%。

Looking ahead to 2025, we are confident in our ability to continue outpacing market growth and expanding our share of the MSMB payments market. Retail deposits closed 2024 at BRL8.7 billion, exceeding our BRL7 billion guidance. This success reflects the strong performance of our bundle payments and banking offers, and increasing client engagement with our banking solutions.

展望 2025 年，我們有信心繼續超越市場成長並擴大我們在 MSMB 支付市場的份額。2024 年零售存款總額達 87 億雷亞爾，超過我們的 70 億雷亞爾指引。這項成功反映了我們的捆綁式支付和銀行服務的強勁表現，以及客戶對我們銀行解決方案的參與度不斷提高。

While this is a significant milestone, we view it as the initial phase of our strategy to establish Stone accounts as the primary financial hub for our clients.

雖然這是一個重要的里程碑，但我們將其視為將 Stone 帳戶確立為客戶主要金融中心的策略的初始階段。

As we enhance our value proposition with a comprehensive product ecosystem extending beyond payments, we project retail deposit growth to outpace TPV growth. In 2025, we're focused on key initiatives, including our investment products and workflow tools to further accelerate deposit growth.

隨著我們透過超越支付領域的綜合產品生態系統來增強我們的價值主張，我們預計零售存款成長將超過 TPV 成長。2025 年，我們將專注於關鍵舉措，包括我們的投資產品和工作流程工具，以進一步加速存款成長。

Our second priority, enhancing client engagement, yields strong results beyond core monetization metrics like TPV and deposits. We achieved an MSMB take rate of 2.55% in 2024, exceeding our 2.49% guidance. This success reflects not only disciplined pricing payments, but also the growing contribution from our banking and credit solutions.

我們的第二個優先事項是增強客戶參與度，這除了 TPV 和存款等核心貨幣化指標之外，還能產生強勁成果。我們在 2024 年實現了 2.55% 的 MSMB 接受率，超過了我們的 2.49% 的指導水準。這項成功不僅反映了嚴格的定價支付，也反映了我們的銀行和信貸解決方案日益增長的貢獻。

Our credit portfolio reached BRL1.2 billion in 2024, significantly exceeding our BRL800 million target while maintaining controlled risk and healthy profitability. Our non-performing loans over 90 days remained at a control 3.61%. These results had led the success of our 2023 credit relaunch and represent a key step in our strategic evolution to becoming our client's primary financial provider.

我們的信貸組合在 2024 年達到了 12 億雷亞爾，大大超過了我們 8 億雷亞爾的目標，同時保持了可控的風險和健康的盈利能力。90天以上不良貸款率仍控制在3.61%。這些結果推動了我們 2023 年信貸業務的成功重啟，也代表了我們向成為客戶主要金融服務提供者的策略演變過程中的關鍵一步。

Our third priority, scalable platform growth, focus on (technical difficulty) evolving value to clients' profitability. This is reflected in our net income of BRL2.2 billion, exceeding our BRL1.9 billion guidance, despite macroeconomic headwinds and over BRL100 million in negative impacts from accounting methodology changes for membership fees.

我們的第三個優先事項是可擴展的平台成長，重點關注（技術難度）不斷提升價值以提高客戶的獲利能力。這反映在我們的淨收入 22 億雷亞爾上，超過了 19 億雷亞爾的預期，儘管面臨宏觀經濟逆風以及會員費會計方法變化帶來的超過 1 億雷亞爾的負面影響。

This strong performance resulted from successful monetization, ongoing efficiency improvements, and the initial benefits of cost control initiatives, as evidenced by adjusted administrative expenses of BRL994 million compared to our BRL1.125 billion guidance.

這項強勁業績源自於成功的貨幣化、持續的效率提升以及成本控制措施的初步成效，調整後的管理費用為 9.94 億雷亞爾，而我們的預期為 11.25 億雷亞爾。

I am extremely pleased with our strong performance in 2024 and the progress we made executing our strategy. We remain focused on empowering our clients by simplifying their financial lives and providing the solutions they need.

我對我們在 2024 年的強勁表現以及執行策略所取得的進展感到非常高興。我們始終致力於透過簡化客戶的財務生活並提供他們所需的解決方案來增強客戶的能力。

Now, I'll hand it over to Lia to discuss our fourth-quarter 2024 results and provide further strategic updates. Lia?

現在，我將交給 Lia 討論我們 2024 年第四季的業績並提供進一步的策略更新。莉亞？

Thank you, Pedro, and good evening, everyone. Taking a closer look into our fourth-quarter '24 results, we're pleased with our performance in the quarter. We were able to deliver solid results, despite a less favorable macroeconomic environment towards the end of the year, when yield curves trended upwards. In spite of this scenario, we decided not to increase prices for our clients in the quarter, given the important holiday season.

謝謝你，佩德羅，大家晚上好。仔細審視我們 24 年第四季的業績，我們對本季的表現感到滿意。儘管年底宏觀經濟環境較不利，殖利率曲線呈現上升趨勢，但我們仍能取得穩健的表現。儘管如此，考慮到重要的節日季，我們決定本季不提高客戶價格。

As you can see on slide 4, we posted strong bottom-line results. Our adjusted EBT grew 22% compared with the fourth quarter of '23, while adjusted net income grew 18% over the same period. Adjusted net margin was 18.4% in the quarter, 1 percentage point higher year over year.

正如您在幻燈片 4 上看到的，我們公佈了強勁的獲利業績。我們的調整後息稅前利潤與 23 年第四季相比成長了 22%，而調整後的淨收入同期成長了 18%。本季調整後淨利率為18.4%，較去年同期上升1個百分點。

As a result of the execution of share buybacks throughout 2024, our adjusted basic EPS growth exceeded net income growth, increasing 26% compared to the fourth quarter of '23. These results, as seen on slide 5, stem primarily from an 11% year-over-year increase in total revenues for the quarter, which resulted from active client base growth and higher monetization of clients among different client segments.

由於 2024 年全年實施股票回購，我們的調整後基本每股盈餘成長超過了淨收入成長，與 23 年第四季相比成長了 26%。如投影片 5 所示，這些結果主要源自於本季總營收年增 11%，這得益於活躍客戶群的成長以及不同客戶群中客戶貨幣化的提高。

In addition to that, we saw significant gains in efficiency while we continue to invest for future growth. As you can see on the right side of the slide, we are now introducing gross profit as a key measure of our performance. Gross profit is measured as our revenues deducted by cost of services and financial expenses. We believe this metric better represents the nature of our operation and our ability to monetize clients through multiple levers such as payments, banking, and credit.

除此之外，我們在繼續為未來成長進行投資的同時，也看到了效率的顯著提升。正如您在幻燈片右側看到的，我們現在引入毛利作為我們業績的關鍵衡量標準。毛利是我們的收入減去服務成本和財務費用來衡量的。我們相信，這項指標更能代表了我們的營運性質以及我們透過支付、銀行和信貸等多種手段將客戶貨幣化的能力。

On the cost side, it considers the cost to fund our operation as well as the direct cost to serve our client base. Our gross profit in the quarter reached BRL1.7 billion, growing 13% year over year. This growth ahead of revenue growth reflects a lower level of provision for loan losses as well as a lower cost to fund our business. Note that on a quarter-over-quarter basis, we started to be impacted by the higher yield curve.

在成本方面，它考慮了資助我們營運的成本以及為我們的客戶群提供服務的直接成本。本季我們的毛利達到17億雷亞爾，年增13%。這種超過收入成長的成長反映了較低的貸款損失準備金水準以及較低的業務融資成本。請注意，與上一季相比，我們開始受到更高殖利率曲線的影響。

While we had a hit in our financial expenses from higher rates in the fourth quarter, we understand the end of the year as a critical moment for our clients. And thus, we took the decision to not increase prices in the fourth quarter and wait for the beginning of the year instead.

雖然我們的財務支出因第四季度利率上升而受到衝擊，但我們知道年底對我們的客戶來說是一個關鍵時刻。因此，我們決定第四季不漲價，而是等到年初。

On slide 6, we dig deeper in our Financial Services segment performance, starting with our payments business for MSMBs. Our MSMB payments active client base increased 19% year over year to 4.1 million clients. This represents an acceleration in our addition of clients to 157,000 from 108,000 in the previous quarter.

在第 6 張投影片上，我們深入探討了金融服務部門的表現，首先從 MSMB 的支付業務開始。我們的 MSMB 支付活躍客戶群年增 19%，達到 410 萬客戶。這意味著我們的客戶數量從上一季的 108,000 加速增加到 157,000。

Net adds performance in the quarter resulted from end-of-year campaigns, including Black Friday, while churn levels remained under control. While we welcome this acceleration and believe it reflects the strength of our value proposition as well as excellence in distribution, we note that our focus continues to be to guarantee healthy unit economics in every cohort through a dynamic pricing strategy, effective bundling, and increased client engagement.

本季淨增業績得益於「黑色星期五」等年底促銷活動，同時顧客流失率仍在控制之中。雖然我們歡迎這種加速，並相信它反映了我們的價值主張的實力以及分銷的卓越性，但我們注意到，我們的重點仍然是透過動態定價策略、有效捆綁和增加客戶參與度來保證每個群體的健康單位經濟。

I think it is important to remind everyone that net adds dynamics can vary quarter over quarter, slightly above or below the average over several quarters. Speaking of engagement, we saw yet again an increase in our heavy user metric this quarter from 34% in the previous quarter to 37% in the fourth quarter. We believe this is a result of both the effectiveness of our payments and banking bundle offers and on the launching of new solutions that are accretive over time.

我認為有必要提醒大家，淨增量動態可能會在每季之間發生變化，可能會略高於或低於幾季的平均值。說到參與度，我們本季再次看到重度使用者指標從上一季的 34% 上升至第四季的 37%。我們相信，這是我們支付和銀行捆綁服務的有效性以及隨著時間推移不斷推出的新解決方案的結果。

MSMB TPV increased 21% year over year in the quarter, showing an acceleration compared to previous quarter growth of 20%, driven by card TPV growth of 13% while PIX continued to grow at much higher rates as adoption continues to accelerate and visibly cannibalize debit volumes as well as cash. PIX continues to open new avenues of product development, such as recently implemented NFC capture, while monetization remains accretive to our ecosystem.

本季度，MSMB TPV 同比增長 21%，與上一季 20% 的增幅相比有所加速，這得益於卡 TPV 增長 13%，而隨著採用率不斷加速並明顯蠶食借記卡量和現金，PIX 繼續以更高的速度增長。PIX 繼續開闢新的產品開發途徑，例如最近實施的 NFC 捕獲，同時貨幣化仍然對我們的生態系統有益。

In spite of the solid volume growth, we also saw encouraging trends in our take rates, which increased 11 basis points year over year with a soft reduction sequentially due to typical fourth-quarter seasonality. As I mentioned, going forward, we will focus more on total gross profit as a better metric to reflect our monetization strategy achieved through multiple monetization drivers and trade-offs. We believe that take rates are more limited in showing the whole picture, given that we may decide on different balances between solutions, given a specific macroenvironment.

儘管交易量穩定成長，但我們的接受率也呈現令人鼓舞的趨勢，由於第四季度的典型季節性因素，接受率較上年同期增加了 11 個基點，但環比略有下降。正如我所提到的，展望未來，我們將更加關注總毛利，將其作為一個更好的指標，以反映我們透過多種貨幣化驅動因素和權衡實現的貨幣化策略。我們認為，接受率在反映整體情況方面更為有限，因為我們可能會在特定的宏觀環境下決定解決方案之間的不同平衡。

Also, as we intend to use our deposits in a more relevant way to fund our operation, which is accretive to us, this would impact take rate while it would be neutral to gross profits. We will, however, continue to disclose this metric in earnings materials and will adapt it to include PIX volumes in TPV when calculating take rates.

此外，由於我們打算以更相關的方式使用我們的存款來為我們的營運提供資金，這對我們來說是增值的，這將影響利率，但對毛利則沒有影響。不過，我們將繼續在收益資料中揭露此指標，並在計算接受率時將其調整為將 PIX 交易量納入 TPV 中。

Moving on to slide 7. We show our banking performance. We continue to see strong growth in our banking active client base, which increased 46% year over year to 3.1 million banking clients, outgrowing the increase in our payments client base. The combination of success in our bundled offers and continued engagement with our banking features led to a 42% increase in retail deposits, or a strong 28% sequential increase, boosted by seasonality, reaching BRL8.7 billion by year-end.

轉到投影片 7。我們展示我們的銀行業績。我們的銀行活躍客戶群持續強勁成長，年增 46%，達到 310 萬銀行客戶，超過了我們的支付客戶群的成長。我們的捆綁服務取得成功，加上我們銀行功能的持續投入，導致零售存款在季節性因素的推動下增加了 42%，環比增長 28%，到年底達到了 87 億巴西雷亞爾。

As expected, deposits have been growing well above TPV, reaching 6.8% of MSMB TPV in the quarter compared with 6% in the third quarter of '24 and 5.8% in the fourth quarter of '23. Within retail deposits, we have seen a 3.6-fold increase in time deposits, which reached BRL430 million, mostly related to our saving solution. Although still small, this solution has been a key driver of engagement, enabling our clients to save money for specific purposes and therefore, better organize their finances.

正如預期的那樣，存款的成長遠高於 TPV，本季達到了 MSMB TPV 的 6.8%，而 24 年第三季為 6%，23 年第四季為 5.8%。在零售存款中，定期存款增加了 3.6 倍，達到 4.3 億巴西雷亞爾，這主要與我們的儲蓄解決方案有關。儘管規模仍然很小，但該解決方案已成為參與的主要驅動力，使我們的客戶能夠為特定目的節省資金，從而更好地組織他們的財務。

An important aspect to note is that from the remaining BRL8.3 billion in deposits, we expect to convert a significant portion of it to time deposits by issuing certificate of deposits. This will allow us to utilize such amounts towards funding of our operation. As we pursue this strategy over the coming quarters, we expect to see a shift in our retail deposit mix from deposits from retail clients to on-platform time deposits. This shift will contribute to a better and more efficient capital structure and will significantly reduce the cost to fund our operation, reducing financial expenses.

需要注意的一點是，我們預計透過發行存款證，將剩餘的 83 億巴西雷亞爾存款中的很大一部分轉換為定期存款。這將使我們能夠利用這些資金來資助我們的營運。隨著我們在未來幾季推行這項策略，我們預計我們的零售存款結構將從零售客戶存款轉向平台定期存款。這項轉變將有助於建立更好、更有效率的資本結構，並將大幅降低我們營運的資金成本，從而減少財務支出。

At the same time, we will no longer earn CDI on top of those deposits, which means we will experience a significant reduction in our floating revenues throughout the year as well. The effect will be an accretive outcome to our bottom line as we implement this strategy over time.

同時，我們將不再在這些存款的基礎上賺取 CDI，這意味著我們全年的浮動收入也將大幅減少。隨著我們逐步實施這項策略，其效果將會是我們的利潤不斷增加。

On slide 8, I'm going to give some highlights of our credit performance. The fourth quarter showed a trend of continuity versus previous quarters, with positive results both in growth and in quality. Our credit portfolio reached BRL1.2 billion, increasing 31% in the quarter. This portfolio is comprised of BRL1.1 billion of merchant solutions composed in its majority of working capital solutions to SMBs and BRL114 million of credit card offerings to our clients, mainly to micro clients.

在第 8 張投影片上，我將重點介紹我們的信用表現。第四季延續前幾季的走勢，成長和品質均取得積極成效。我們的信貸組合達到 12 億巴西雷亞爾，本季成長了 31%。該投資組合包括 11 億巴西雷亞爾的商家解決方案，其中大部分為針對中小型企業的營運資金解決方案，以及 1.14 億巴西雷亞爾的信用卡產品，主要針對小型客戶。

Despite a more challenging macroeconomic scenario, we still see credit as an important avenue of growth. Given the significant opportunity to support our clients through multiple credit offerings where we still have limited presence, nevertheless, we remain aware of macro trends that may lead to an impact in future disbursements and performance.

儘管宏觀經濟情勢更具挑戰性，我們仍然認為信貸是成長的重要途徑。儘管我們有很大機會透過多種信貸產品為客戶提供支持，但我們的業務仍然有限，儘管如此，我們仍然意識到宏觀趨勢可能會對未來的支出和業績產生影響。

Credit quality remains healthy with NPLs 50 to 90 days of 2.47% and NPLs over 90 days of 3.61% with increases being expected as a natural consequence of portfolio maturation. Regarding provisions, as we have been communicating over the past quarters, we have been gradually reducing the amount of working capital provisions we hold compared with its respective portfolio balance. When we relaunched the solution, we decided to overprovision until we could have a clear view of multiple vintages performance and slowly convert those provisions to the actual expected loss levels.

信用品質依然良好，50 至 90 天的不良貸款率為 2.47%，90 天以上的不良貸款率為 3.61%，預計隨著投資組合的成熟，不良貸款率將自然增加。關於準備金，正如我們在過去幾季中一直在傳達的那樣，與相應的投資組合餘額相比，我們一直在逐步減少所持有的營運資金準備金金額。當我們重新啟動解決方案時，我們決定過度配置，直到我們能夠清楚地了解多個年份的表現，並慢慢將這些配置轉換為實際預期的損失水平。

The ratio of accumulated loan loss provision expenses over the working capital portfolio reached 12% in the quarter compared with 14% in the third quarter and 20% a year ago. Given the current macroeconomic scenario and a conservative approach from our side, we believe this is an appropriate level to stabilize in at the moment. As such, we will now transition away from tracking this ratio to follow more widely used credit metrics.

本季累計貸款損失準備金支出佔營運資金組合的比例達 12%，而第三季為 14%，去年同期為 20%。考慮到當前的宏觀經濟狀況和我們採取的保守態度，我們認為目前這是一個適當的穩定水平。因此，我們現在將不再追蹤該比率，而是追蹤更廣泛使用的信用指標。

Our coverage ratio currently stands at 331%, which is still at a high level for comparable credit players in the market.

我們的覆蓋率目前為331％，對於市場同類信貸參與者而言，這仍然處於較高水平。

To summarize, on slide 9, as a result of the performance highlights I just described, our Financial Services segment grew revenues at 11% year over year to BRL3.2 billion, with an adjusted EBT growth of 16%, reaching BRL700 million and a 90 basis points margin increase to 21.9% in the quarter. The solid results of the year within the Financial Services segment, driven by the successful execution of our strategic priorities around win, engage, and scale, led us to reach an ROE of 27% in 2024, 5 percentage points higher than in 2023.

總結一下，在第 9 頁，由於我剛才描述的業績亮點，我們的金融服務部門營收年增 11%，達到 32 億雷亞爾，調整後的 EBT 成長 16%，達到 7 億雷亞爾，利潤率增加 90 個基點，本季達到 21.9%。金融服務部門今年取得了穩健的業績，這得益於我們成功執行了贏得勝利、參與和擴大規模的戰略重點，使我們在 2024 年的 ROE 達到 27%，比 2023 年高出 5 個百分點。

Finally, on slide 10, I will go through our software segment performance. As you can see, our execution on cross-selling financial services to software clients has been yielding positive results. We have increased our CTPV overlap 20% year over year compared with a 13% growth of overall MSMB card TPV for the same period. Sequentially, we grew CTPV overlap 2 times higher than our MSMB card TPV growth, which gives us confidence to keep seeking the strategic avenue ahead.

最後，在第 10 張投影片上，我將介紹我們的軟體部門的表現。正如您所看到的，我們向軟體客戶交叉銷售金融服務的執行已經取得了積極的成果。我們的 CTPV 重疊度年增了 20%，而同期 MSMB 卡整體 TPV 的成長率為 13%。連續而言，我們的 CTPV 重疊成長比 MSMB 卡 TPV 成長高出 2 倍，這使我們有信心繼續尋求未來的策略途徑。

On a standalone basis, software revenue grew 15% year over year in the quarter, mainly driven by a good performance in one of our portfolio companies, Reclame Aqui and the non-recurring revenue of BRL8 million. Software adjusted EBITDA posted a strong 54% growth year over year, reaching an all-time high margin since the acquisition of Linx of 21.6%. This margin improvement was largely led by the combination of a strong revenue performance with our continued focus on gaining efficiencies in the operation.

單獨來看，本季軟體營收年增 15％，主要得益於我們投資組合之一 Reclame Aqui 的良好表現以及 800 萬巴西雷亞爾的非經常性收入。軟體調整後的 EBITDA 年比強勁成長 54%，達到收購 Linx 以來 21.6% 的歷史最高利潤率。利潤率的提高主要得益於強勁的收入表現和我們對提高營運效率的持續關注。

As Pedro mentioned, we're pleased with the 2024 results and remained committed and excited to bring more value to our clients throughout 2025 and to continue our journey towards reaching our long-term targets and creating value to our shareholders.

正如佩德羅所說，我們對 2024 年的業績感到滿意，並將繼續致力於並熱衷於在 2025 年為我們的客戶帶來更多價值，並繼續朝著實現長期目標和為股東創造價值的方向前進。

Now I want to pass it over to Mateus to give important updates on our software segment and discuss in more detail our overall financial performance. Mateus?

現在，我想讓馬特烏斯提供有關我們軟體部門的重要更新，並更詳細地討論我們的整體財務表現。馬特烏斯？

Thank you, Lia, and good evening, everyone. Before we dive into financials, on slide 11, I'd like to briefly update you on our Software division. During our Investor Day in November 2023, we outlined our software strategy, focus on cross-selling financial services to four priority verticals, and managing our other software assets for efficiency and cash generation.

謝謝你，莉亞，大家晚上好。在我們深入討論財務狀況之前，在第 11 張投影片上，我想簡單介紹一下我們的軟體部門的情況。在 2023 年 11 月的投資者日上，我們概述了我們的軟體策略，專注於向四個優先垂直行業交叉銷售金融服務，並管理我們的其他軟體資產以提高效率和創造現金。

As previously discussed, while executing the cross-sell strategy, we achieved greater success leveraging our financial services distribution channels rather than relying on our software specific sales for us. This insight led us to conclude that owning the software assets isn't essential for executing our cross-selling strategy, although the strategy itself remains relevant. As a result of this shift in how we execute, a larger share of the economics from the cross-sell is now being recognized within our Financial Services segment rather than the softer cash-generating units.

如前所述，在執行交叉銷售策略時，我們利用金融服務分銷管道而不是依靠特定的軟體銷售取得了更大的成功。透過這項見解，我們得出結論：擁有軟體資產對於執行我們的交叉銷售策略並不是至關重要的，儘管該策略本身仍然具有相關性。由於我們執行方式的轉變，交叉銷售帶來的經濟效益更大一部分現在被我們金融服務部門所認可，而不是那些現金產出能力較弱的部門。

Additionally, recent standalone organic growth trends in the software business prompt us to lower our growth expectations for the segment. These factors, along with a more challenging macroeconomic environment, led us to recognize a goodwill impairment charge of BRL3.6 billion for the software cash-generating units. This impairment is a non-cash accounting adjustment and has been excluded from our adjusted financial results.

此外，軟體業務近期的獨立有機成長趨勢促使我們下調對該部門的成長預期。這些因素加上更具挑戰性的宏觀經濟環境，導致我們確認軟體現金產生部門的商譽減損費用為 36 億巴西雷亞爾。此減損是非現金會計調整，已從我們的調整後財務結果中排除。

Regarding our ongoing assessment of strategic alternatives for the software assets, we have received and reviewed several proposals from interested parties. However, as of now, none have met our assessment of the intrinsic value of the assets. Thus, we will continue maximizing the value of the assets and executing our cross-selling strategy as we have done to date.

關於我們對軟體資產策略替代方案的持續評估，我們已經收到並審查了來自相關方的幾項提案。然而，截至目前，尚無任何資產符合我們對資產內在價值的評估。因此，我們將繼續最大化資產價值，並像迄今為止所做的那樣執行我們的交叉銷售策略。

Now let's turn to slide 12 and explore the quarter-over-quarter evolution of our cost and expenses on an adjusted basis. Cost of services increased 10% year over year and 2% sequentially, leading to 130 basis points sequential reduction as a percentage of revenues. This improvement was primarily driven by operational efficiencies and customer support and logistics and lower provisions and losses, thanks to the reversal of a provision that did not materialize.

現在讓我們翻到第 12 張投影片，探討一下調整後成本和費用的季度環比變化。服務成本較上年同期增加 10%，較上一季增加 2%，佔營收比重較上一季減少 130 個基點。這項改善主要得益於營運效率、客戶支援和物流以及撥備和損失的減少，這要歸功於未實現的撥備的逆轉。

These benefits were partially offset by higher loan loss provisions related to the growth of our credit products. Administrative expenses decreased 2% year over year and increased 6% quarter over quarter, resulting in a sequential reduction of 10 basis points as a percentage of revenues. This reduction reflects operational leverage achieved in the period.

這些收益被我們信貸產品成長相關的更高貸款損失準備金所部分抵銷。管理費用較去年同期下降 2%，較上季成長 6%，佔營收的百分比較上季減少 10 個基點。這一減少反映了該期間實現的營運槓桿。

Selling expenses rose by 21% year over year and 9% sequentially, increasing 30 basis points as a percentage of revenues. The rise was primarily due to increased investments in our specialist sales team, partially offset by reduced marketing expenses. We continue to assess growth opportunities and remain committed to investing where it's value accretive.

銷售費用年增 21%，較上季成長 9%，佔營收的百分比增加了 30 個基點。成長的主要原因是我們對專業銷售團隊的投資增加，但行銷費用的減少部分抵消了這一成長。我們將繼續評估成長機會，並繼續致力於在能夠增值的地方進行投資。

Financial expenses increased 10% year over year and 14% sequentially, or 160 basis points as a percentage of revenue. The sequential increase was primarily driven by the higher yield curve in the quarter. We expect to ramp up the usage of our deposits as funding for our operation throughout the year, which will enable us to further diversify our liability management while continuing to reduce our average funding spreads.

財務費用年增 10%，季增 14%，佔營收的百分比為 160 個基點。連續成長主要受本季殖利率曲線上升推動。我們預計全年將增加存款作為營運資金的使用，這將使我們能夠進一步多元化負債管理，同時繼續降低平均融資利差。

Our other expenses line decreased by 24% year over year but remained relatively stable sequentially. As our revenues grew, other expenses as a percentage of revenue declined by 20 basis points.

我們的其他費用年減了 24%，但環比保持相對穩定。隨著我們的收入成長，其他支出佔收入的百分比下降了 20 個基點。

Our effective tax rate was 14.5% in the quarter, down notably from 20% in Q3. This reduction was driven primarily by gains from entities abroad, including the full effect from the partial repurchase of our bonds and the transfer of the remaining version to a local entity, which allowed us to benefit from the tax shields on associated interest expenses. Additionally, we benefited from tax incentives under Lei do Bem, which typically peak in the fourth quarter.

本季我們的有效稅率為 14.5%，較第三季的 20% 大幅下降。這項減少主要得益於海外實體的收益，包括部分回購我們的債券以及將剩餘版本轉讓給當地實體的全部影響，這使我們能夠從相關利息費用的稅盾中受益。此外，我們還受益於 Lei do Bem 政策下的稅收優惠，該政策通常在第四季度達到頂峰。

Turning now to slide 13. Our adjusted net cash position was BRL4.7 billion at quarter end, representing a sequential decrease of BRL0.2 billion. This decline primarily reflects our ongoing share repurchase activity. We have an active BRL2 billion buyback program under which BRL608 million, or 10.9 million shares were repurchased in the fourth quarter of 2024.

現在翻到第 13 張投影片。本季末，我們調整後的淨現金狀況為 47 億雷亞爾，比上一季減少 2 億雷亞爾。這一下降主要反映了我們正在進行的股票回購活動。我們有一個積極的 20 億雷亞爾回購計劃，根據該計劃，2024 年第四季回購了 6.08 億雷亞爾，即 1,090 萬股。

For the full year, our adjusted net cash decreased by just BRL0.3 billion despite BRL1.6 billion in total share repurchase during 2024, covering both our current and previous buyback programs. Excluding share repurchase activity and the capital we allocated in our credit product, we would have generated BRL1.9 billion in adjusted net cash for the year.

就全年而言，儘管 2024 年共回購了 16 億雷亞爾的股票，涵蓋了我們目前和先前的回購計劃，但我們的調整後淨現金僅減少了 3 億雷亞爾。不包括股票回購活動和我們在信貸產品中分配的資本，我們今年的調整後淨現金將達到 19 億巴西雷亞爾。

Before I finalize, I would like to discuss two additional topics. The first, on slide 14, concerns our approach to capital allocation. Throughout the past year, we conducted a comprehensive review of our capital structure, resulting in the creation of a proprietary model to assess our excess capital position based on three key pillars.

在結束之前，我想討論另外兩個主題。第一個，第 14 張投影片，涉及我們的資本配置方法。在過去的一年裡，我們對我們的資本結構進行了全面的審查，並建立了一個專有模型，根據三個關鍵支柱來評估我們的超額資本狀況。

The first pillar focuses on our capitalization ratio. Considering our business trajectory and rapid growth, we've decided to maintain a minimum common capital ratio at StoneCo equal to 20% of our risk-weighted assets, though this level could be reassessed over time.

第一個支柱關注的是我們的資本化比率。考慮到我們的業務發展軌跡和快速成長，我們決定將 StoneCo 的最低普通股資本比率維持在風險加權資產的 20% 左右，但這一水平可能會隨著時間的推移進行重新評估。

The second pillar addresses our credit ratings. Given the nature of our operations, maintaining credit rating metrics aligned with our banking peers is essential. Therefore, we have set specific KPIs to monitor regularly, ensuring we maintain at least our current global ratings, which are constrained by the sovereign rating.

第二個支柱涉及我們的信用評級。鑑於我們的業務性質，保持與銀行同行一致的信用評級指標至關重要。因此，我們設定了特定的KPI來定期監控，確保我們至少維持目前的全球評級，該評級受到主權評級的限制。

The third pillar revolves around our adjusted net cash position. We have historically emphasized net cash as a critical indicator of our business capitalization and have accordingly chosen to maintain a positive net cash balance.

第三大支柱圍繞著我們的調整後淨現金狀況。我們一直強調淨現金是我們業務資本化的關鍵指標，因此選擇保持正的淨現金餘額。

Based on these pillars, we estimate that as of December 31, we had an excess capital of over BRL3 billion. We expect to return this capital to shareholders over time when value-accretive growth opportunities are not immediately available. Notably, this amount is already net of the BRL1.6 billion distributed in 2024 through our share buyback programs and does not account for any potential capital release from strategic discussions regarding our software division.

基於這些支柱，我們估計，截至 12 月 31 日，我們的盈餘資本超過 30 億巴西雷亞爾。當價值增值成長機會尚未立即出現時，我們希望隨著時間的推移將這些資本返還給股東。值得注意的是，該金額已經扣除了 2024 年透過股票回購計畫分配的 16 億巴西雷亞爾，並不包括我們軟體部門戰略討論中可能釋放的任何資本。

Finally, turning to slide 15. I'd like to discuss our guidance. At our Investor Day in November 2023, we provided detailed short and long-term guidance metrics, which helped investors clearly understand our strategic direction and enable transparent tracking of our progress. In 2024, we delivered strong results across these metrics, reinforcing our confidence in achieving our 2027 targets.

最後，翻到第 15 張投影片。我想討論一下我們的指導。在 2023 年 11 月的投資者日上，我們提供了詳細的短期和長期指導指標，幫助投資者清楚地了解我們的策略方向並能夠透明地追蹤我們的進展。2024年，我們在這些指標上取得了強勁的成績，增強了我們實現2027年目標的信心。

Now, given the ongoing evolution and increased maturity of our business, we've made certain adjustments to better align our metrics with recent industry dynamics and our increased focus on capital structure, while maintaining our strategic priorities.

現在，鑑於我們業務的不斷發展和日益成熟，我們已經做出了一些調整，以使我們的指標更好地與最近的行業動態和我們對資本結構的更多關注保持一致，同時保持我們的戰略重點。

For 2025, we have simplified our guidance to two key financial indicators that best reflect our business performance. The first indicator, adjusted gross profit, captures the consolidated execution of our strategy across our various products and services. The second, adjusted basic EPS, incorporates both our capacity to grow efficiently and benefits from the optimization of our capital structure. This simplified guidance approach enhances our flexibility while maintaining disciplined tracking of our core value drivers.

針對 2025 年，我們將指導目標簡化為兩個最能反映我們業務績效的關鍵財務指標。第一個指標，調整後的毛利，反映了我們各個產品和服務的策略的綜合執行。第二，調整後的基本每股盈餘既體現了我們有效成長的能力，也體現了我們資本結構優化帶來的好處。這種簡化的指導方法增強了我們的靈活性，同時保持了對核心價值驅動因素的嚴格追蹤。

As for our long-term outlook, our 2027 guidance maintains our original projections for retail deposits and credit portfolio. However, we've adjusted our MSMB CTPV metric to MSMB TPV to include PIX volumes, reflecting industry developments and the importance of PIX following its widespread adoption in the market.

至於我們的長期展望，我們對 2027 年的指引維持了我們對零售存款和信貸組合的原始預測。然而，我們已將 MSMB CTPV 指標調整為 MSMB TPV，以包括 PIX 數量，反映產業發展以及 PIX 在市場上廣泛採用後的重要性。

Additionally, we have replaced our MSMB take rate guidance with gross profits. Gross profit, as previously explained, accounts for revenues minus cost of services and financial expenses, capturing the true economics of our business. It also accounts for lower floating revenue, resulting from increased use of deposits as funding, which despite lowering the take rate remains accretive to our bottom line due to reduced funding costs.

此外，我們已經用毛利取代了 MSMB 利率指引。如前所述，毛利等於收入減去服務成本和財務費用，反映了我們業務的真實經濟狀況。它還解釋了浮動收入的降低，這是由於存款作為資金的使用增加造成的，儘管降低了接受率，但由於融資成本的降低，這仍然增加了我們的底線。

Lastly, we replaced our adjusted administrative expenses and adjusted net income guidance with adjusted basic EPS, as EPS effectively captures our overall bottom-line performance while allowing greater flexibility in capital allocation decisions.

最後，我們以調整後的基本每股盈餘取代了調整後的管理費用和調整後的淨收入指引，因為每股盈餘有效地反映了我們的整體底線業績，同時允許在資本配置決策方面有更大的靈活性。

For 2025, on slide 16, we expect adjusted gross profit above BRL7.05 billion and adjusted basic EPS above BRL8.6 per share, reflecting year-over-year growth of 14% and 18%, respectively. This EPS calculation assumes a share count of 279.5 million shares taking into account the repurchase of 33.5 million shares since our Investor Day.

對於 2025 年，在第 16 頁上，我們預計調整後的毛利將超過 70.5 億巴西雷亞爾，調整後的基本每股盈餘將超過 8.6 巴西雷亞爾/股，分別年增 14% 和 18%。該每股收益計算假設股票總數為 2.795 億股，並考慮到自投資者日以來回購了 3,350 萬股。

Moving to slide 17. Our updated guidance for 2027 projects MSMB TPV surpassing BRL670 billion, implying our 2024 to 2027 CAGR above 14%. Adjusted gross profit is expected to exceed BRL10.2 billion, translating to a CAGR of over 18%. Adjusted basic EPS is expected to exceed BRL15 per share, representing a CAGR of over 27%. Notably, despite aggressive share repurchase, our implicit adjusted net profit guidance remains at BRL4.3 billion, indicating an upgrade in our original implicit guidance for EPS.

移至投影片 17。我們更新後的 2027 年指引預計 MSMB TPV 將超過 6,700 億雷亞爾，這意味著 2024 年至 2027 年的複合年增長率將超過 14%。調整後毛利預計將超過 102 億雷亞爾，複合年增長率超過 18%。調整後基本每股盈餘預計將超過 15 巴西雷亞爾/股，複合年增長率超過 27%。值得注意的是，儘管積極回購股票，但我們隱含的調整後淨利指引仍為 43 億巴西雷亞爾，這表明我們原來的每股盈餘隱含指引有所上調。

To wrap up, I would like to pass it over to Pedro for some final remarks.

最後，我想將發言權交給佩德羅，請他做最後的演講。

Thank you, Mateus. Finally, on slide 18, I'd like to acknowledge our consistent track record of delivering strong results over recent years. Over the past two years, we have repeatedly exceeded market consensus and delivered on our commitments, reflecting disciplined execution and strategic clarity.

謝謝你，馬特烏斯。最後，在第 18 張投影片上，我想承認我們近年來一貫取得的強勁業績。在過去的兩年裡，我們多次超越市場共識，兌現承諾，體現了嚴謹的執行力和清晰的策略。

Moving forward, our goal remains clear: maximizing long-term intrinsic business value growth measured on a per share basis rather than merely emphasizing overall company size or scale. As we conclude 2024 and enter 2025, we recognize potential macroeconomic challenges, but remain firmly committed to delivering sustainable long-term value creation. Our strategy remains focused on disciplined execution, prudent capital allocation, and enhancing intrinsic business value per share.

展望未來，我們的目標仍然明確：最大化每股衡量的長期內在商業價值成長，而不僅僅是強調整體公司規模。當我們結束 2024 年並進入 2025 年時，我們認識到潛在的宏觀經濟挑戰，但仍然堅定地致力於實現可持續的長期價值創造。我們的策略仍然專注於嚴格的執行、審慎的資本配置以及提高每股的內在商業價值。

We deeply appreciate the trust, support, and partnership from our shareholders as we navigate this journey together. The road ahead is filled with opportunity, and we are more determined than ever to drive sustainable growth and lasting success.

在我們共同走過這趟旅程的過程中，我們深深感謝股東們的信任、支持與合作。前方的道路充滿機遇，我們比以往任何時候都更有決心推動永續成長和持久成功。

With that said, we are now ready to open the call to questions.

話雖如此，我們現在可以開始回答問題了。

(Operator Instructions) Eduardo Rosman, BTG.

(操作員指令) Eduardo Rosman，BTG。

Congrats on the numbers. Two questions here. The first one on your banking solution. If you could share with us why do you think you are outperforming -- performing really well, and where do you see room for improvement?

恭喜你取得這些數字。這裡有兩個問題。這是有關您的銀行解決方案的第一個內容。您可以與我們分享為什麼您認為自己表現出色——表現得非常好，以及您認為哪些方面還有改進的空間嗎？

And the second question, it's on the capital structure, right? What's your view on dividends, given the very big excess capital and the ongoing share buyback program? Why not distribute dividends as well? Thanks.

第二個問題是關於資本結構，對嗎？考慮到巨大的過剩資本和正在進行的股票回購計劃，您對股利有何看法？為何不也分紅呢？謝謝。

Hi, Rosman, Lia here. Thank you for the question. I'm going to take the first one and then pass it over to Pedro.

你好，Rosman，我是 Lia。感謝您的提問。我要拿第一個然後把它交給佩德羅。

So I think overall message on banking is the following. As we said in the Investor Day, we continue to see deposits grow ahead of TPV, right? And the message behind this is that deposit growth ahead of TPV because clients further engage with our banking solution, and this is mainly driven by two factors.

所以我認為銀行業的整體資訊如下。正如我們在投資者日所說的那樣，我們繼續看到存款成長領先於 TPV，對嗎？這背後的訊息是，存款成長超過 TPV，因為客戶進一步參與我們的銀行解決方案，這主要由兩個因素驅動。

Number one is our success in bundling payments in banking, which is something that we've done over the last years, and we're getting increasingly better at. And also, as we evolve on the banking roadmap and develop more solutions, our clients further engage with the platform. So the way they want to understand this is pretty much we've captured most of the value associated with cash-in because we take most of the cash-in of the client through TPV that becomes deposit in the banking account. But also, as we develop more and more solutions, deposits stay for longer, and we see a trend, a positive trend regarding deposits.

首先是我們在銀行支付捆綁方面取得了成功，這是我們過去幾年來一直在做的事情，而且我們做得越來越好。此外，隨著我們銀行業務路線圖的不斷發展和更多解決方案的開發，我們的客戶也進一步參與該平台。因此，他們想要理解這一點的方式是，我們已經獲取了與現金相關的大部分價值，因為我們透過 TPV 獲得了客戶的大部分現金，這些現金都變成了銀行帳戶中的存款。但是，隨著我們開發出越來越多的解決方案，存款保留的時間更長，我們看到了一種趨勢，一種關於存款的積極趨勢。

Naturally, in the fourth quarter, there was a seasonal impact in deposits because of the holiday season, right? That's natural to expect. Some of that seasonality has sort of been reversed in the first quarter, but the overall trend has not. So the overall trend continues to be that deposits grow ahead of TPV.

當然，第四季由於假期的影響，存款會受到季節性影響，對嗎？這是很自然的預期。第一季度，部分季節性現像已經出現逆轉，但整體趨勢並未改變。因此整體趨勢仍是存款成長快於TPV成長。

And also, that's implied by our long-term guidance, right? We continue to expect deposits to grow ahead of TPV as we further develop the banking solution. The development is really around resolving incrementally, workflow needs of our clients, right? So we launched a simplified payroll solution. We're evolving a lot on that payroll solution this year.

而且，這也暗示了我們的長期指導，對嗎？隨著我們進一步開發銀行解決方案，我們預計存款成長將繼續超過 TPV。開發其實就是圍繞著逐步解決客戶的工作流程需求，對嗎？因此我們推出了簡化的薪資單解決方案。今年我們對薪資解決方案進行了很大的改進。

We launched different investment products for our clients to save with different purposes. And I think the roadmap has a lot to come still, and we expect this trend to continue. So pass it over to Pedro for the next question.

我們推出了不同的投資產品，供客戶用於不同目的的儲蓄。我認為路線圖還有很多內容需要完善，我們預計這種趨勢將會持續下去。因此，請將下一個問題交給佩德羅。

Thank you, Lia. Thank you, Rosman, for the question. I think the first point that I think we have to recognize is that we evolved a lot in terms of providing transparency in terms of how we allocate capital within the company, right? You might recall that that was part of our commitment in our last call to provide you some visibility in terms of our framework.

謝謝你，莉亞。謝謝羅斯曼提出的問題。我認為我們必須認識到的第一點是，我們在公司內部資本分配透明度方面已經取得了很大進步，對嗎？您可能還記得，這是我們上次通話中所做的承諾的一部分，旨在為您提供一些有關我們框架的透明度。

And I think in some ways, I think we evolved a lot. But just as a reference, I think over the past 12 months, we have already returned more than BRL2 billion in terms of share buybacks, right? So this really demonstrates both, I think, our commitment in terms of returning capital to shareholders and actually, our ability to execute this distribution efficiently when we deem appropriate.

我認為從某些方面來說我們已經進化了很多。但僅作為參考，我認為在過去 12 個月中，我們已經透過股票回購返還了超過 20 億雷亞爾，對嗎？因此，我認為這確實證明了我們向股東返還資本的承諾，以及我們在適當的時候有效執行分配的能力。

However, having said that, I think at this time, we are not committing to a specific target in terms of how we're going to allocate capital in terms of distribution. I think it's going to be through dividends or buybacks. We do expect to provide you some more visibility over the next quarters or so.

然而，話雖如此，我認為目前我們還沒有承諾在如何分配資本方面設定一個具體的目標。我認為它將透過股息或回購來實現。我們確實希望在接下來的幾個季度內為您提供更多的資訊。

Yeah. And if I may add, Pedro. Mateus here, Rosman.

是的。如果我可以補充的話，還有佩德羅。我是馬特烏斯，羅斯曼。

I think the main message is that we see this as a journey. So step one was basically defining the amount of excess capital that we have. I think we have a clear framework for that. Step two is defining how much, how fast, and which instrument we're going to use to give this capital back to shareholders.

我認為主要的訊息是我們將此視為一次旅程。因此第一步基本上是確定我們擁有的過剩資本數量。我認為我們對此有一個清晰的框架。第二步是確定我們要用多少資金、多快資金、用什麼工具將資本回饋給股東。

But something to bear in mind is that we still have an active buyback program for which we have executed until the end of February, around BRL1.1 billion. So we remain with BRL900 million available to be bought back under that program. So we still have some room under that program before we need to make a second decision in terms of the instruments that we're going to use. So it's under discussion.

但要記住的是，我們仍然有一個積極的回購計劃，該計劃已執行至 2 月底，金額約為 11 億巴西雷亞爾。因此，我們仍有 9 億雷亞爾可供根據該計劃回購。因此，在我們需要就我們將要使用的工具做出第二個決定之前，我們在該計劃下仍然有一些空間。因此正在討論中。

And it's an evolution process.

這是一個進化的過程。

Mario Pierry, Bank of America.

美國銀行的馬裡奧·皮埃里 (Mario Pierry)。

Thanks for taking my question and congratulations on the quarter. Let me ask you two questions as well.

感謝您回答我的問題，並祝賀本季取得的成績。我也想問你兩個問題。

You guys made comments that you did not increase prices in the fourth quarter, but that you started repricing in the first quarter. Can you give us a little bit more color how you're seeing this price increases going through? What level of price increases are we talking about? Is it for your entire client base and the impact so far in the quarter, right? Like we're almost at the end of the first quarter. So I'm just trying to get a sense of the size of these price increases and if you plan on keeping increasing prices throughout the year.

你們說你們在第四季沒有漲價，但在第一季就開始重新定價了。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下您對此次價格上漲的看法？我們談論的是哪個等級的價格上漲？這對您的整個客戶群以及本季迄今為止的影響是否都有影響？好像我們快要到第一季末了。所以我只是想了解這些價格上漲的幅度，以及您是否計劃全年保持價格上漲。

And then my second question is related to your guidance. I was just surprised that you're guiding basic EPS rather than fully diluted EPS. I do think that most investors look on a fully diluted basis. So just wanted to understand from your view why guide basic rather than fully diluted. And if you can give us, just remind us of the difference in the share count between basic and fully diluted. Thank you.

我的第二個問題與您的指導有關。我只是很驚訝您指導的是基本每股收益而不是完全稀釋的每股收益。我確實認為大多數投資者都是以完全稀釋的基礎來看待問題的。所以只是想從您的角度來看待為什麼指導基礎而不是完全稀釋。如果您能告訴我們，請提醒我們基本股份數量和完全稀釋股份數量之間的差異。謝謝。

Hi, Mario, Pedro here. Thank you for the question. I'll try to address the first one, and Mateus, feel free to jump in at any point in time.

嗨，馬裡奧，我是佩德羅。感謝您的提問。我將盡力解決第一個問題，馬特烏斯，歡迎隨時加入。

So I think since the significant upward shift that we've seen in the yield curve, by the end of the fourth quarter of 2024, we have proactively, actually, executed a substantial repricing initiative. At the beginning of the first quarter of '25, I think Lia highlighted part of this in her statements in the call that we didn't start in the last quarter of last year.

因此，我認為，自從殖利率曲線出現顯著上行以來，到 2024 年第四季末，我們實際上已經主動執行了一項重大的重新定價舉措。在 25 年第一季初，我認為 Lia 在電話會議中的陳述中強調了這一點，我們並不是在去年最後一個季度開始的。

I think over the recent months, we have effectively completed repricing across our eligible Stone client base. And we are now actually, actively, progressing with our Stone clients. And I think we aim to finalize these adjustments over the upcoming months.

我認為最近幾個月我們已經有效地完成了對符合條件的 Stone 客戶群的重新定價。現在我們實際上正在積極地與 Stone 客戶合作。我認為我們將在未來幾個月內完成這些調整。

I think what we might say is our repricing strategy has proven effective, and we are seeing record low churn on our repricing waves. And another point to highlight is I think we are pleased to see the broader industry aligning around profitability rather than prioritizing volume growth alone.

我想我們可以說我們的重新定價策略已經被證明是有效的，我們看到重新定價浪潮中的客戶流失率創下了歷史新低。另一點需要強調的是，我認為我們很高興看到整個行業都圍繞著盈利能力進行調整，而不是只優先考慮銷售成長。

So this is in line with what we've been saying over the past quarters in terms of -- the rationale in terms of the competitive landscape and what we've been advocating for over the past year or so.

因此，這與我們過去幾個季度所說的——就競爭格局而言的理由以及我們過去一年左右一直倡導的——是一致的。

And Mario, if I may add, in terms of the extent of the repricing, in terms of the size of the adjustments, we basically calibrated the adjustments looking at the yield curve projections for the mid of the year, which were approximately 15%. And in terms of how many clients we repriced, we've basically only excluded those clients who engage with multiple solutions and that remain profitable despite the higher funding costs driven by the rise in interest rates. So it was an extensive repricing wave.

馬裡奧，如果我可以補充一點的話，就重新定價的程度和調整的規模而言，我們基本上根據年中的收益率曲線預測來校準調整，約為 15%。而就我們重新定價的客戶數量而言，我們基本上只排除了那些採用多種解決方案且在利率上升導致融資成本上升的情況下仍能盈利的客戶。因此這是一波大規模的重新定價浪潮。

And in terms of whether we're going to reassess and do more waves throughout the year, I think by June, we will reassess the market conditions and then determine if additional repricing actions are needed or not. So this is the first question regarding pricing.

關於我們是否要在全年重新評估並採取更多舉措，我認為到 6 月份，我們將重新評估市場狀況，然後確定是否需要採取額外的重新定價行動。這是有關定價的第一個問題。

The second question, I think, was around the decision to guide basic EPS instead of diluted. So first of all, I think it's a great question. It's something that we debated internally extensively. I think the decision that was made to guide basic EPS this year had two key reasons in mind.

我認為，第二個問題與指導基本每股收益而不是稀釋每股收益的決定有關。首先，我認為這是一個很好的問題。這是我們內部廣泛討論的事情。我認為今年指導基本每股盈餘的決定有兩個主要原因。

The first reason is that when you look at the accounting rules governing the diluted share count, they can introduce a lot of volatility in the calculation. Just to give a few examples, depending on the share price levels, the performance share units from the turnaround plan may or may not be included in the diluted share count in a binary way. Or a second example, given that we had an IFRS accounting loss in the quarter as a result of the impairment, the diluted is equal to the basic share count in the quarter. And we thought that this year, this created some complexity.

第一個原因是，當你查看管理稀釋股份數量的會計規則時，它們會在計算中引入很大的波動。僅舉幾個例子，根據股價水平，扭虧為盈計劃中的業績股票單位可能會或可能不會以二進制方式包含在稀釋股數中。或第二個例子，假設我們本季由於減損而出現了 IFRS 會計損失，則稀釋後股份數等於本季的基本股數。我們認為，今年這造成了一些複雜性。

Second reason is that, as you all know, we do not adjust share-based compensation expenses at all. Everything flows through the P&L. So if we were to use the diluted share count in the denominator as well, we feel that this would result in some degree of double accounting. So given these factors, we believe that basic EPS this year is the better metric. That was basically the decision.

第二個原因是，眾所周知，我們根本不調整股權激勵費用。一切都透過損益表進行。因此，如果我們也使用稀釋股數作為分母，我們認為這會導致一定程度的重複計算。因此考慮到這些因素，我們認為今年的基本每股盈餘是更好的指標。這就是基本決定。

Okay. Let me ask then two follow-ups on this program that you said that you have. The turnaround plan and the share counts could either be zero or a number based on share price performance. Can you remind us of the size of how many shares are we talking about?

好的。那麼，請容許我問一下您剛才提到的關於這個專案的兩個後續問題。扭虧為盈計畫和股票數量可能是零，也可能是基於股價表現的數字。您能提醒我們一下我們談論的股份數量嗎？

And then on the repricing, when should we see the full benefits of this repricing that you did at the beginning of the quarter. Is this going to be already fully evident in second quarter results? Or is this more in the third quarter? And how do your prices compare to your peers today? Are you just catching up to the level of your peers? Or are you pricing above your peers? Thank you.

然後關於重新定價，我們什麼時候才能看到您在本季度初進行的重新定價的全部好處。這在第二季的業績中是否已經充分顯現出來？或者這更多地發生在第三季度？目前你們的價格與同業相比如何？你是否正在追趕同齡人的水平？還是您的定價高於同業？謝謝。

Yeah, for sure. So in terms of the size of the program, we have a lot of detail in the footnote, 20.4. If you look at the PSU instruments by the end of the year, we had 5.9 million shares outstanding in that program. But again, you have the full details in that footnote there.

是的，當然。因此，就計劃的規模而言，我們在註腳 20.4 中有很多細節。如果您查看年底的 PSU 工具，我們會發現該計劃中有 590 萬股流通股。但您再說一遍，在腳註中可以找到完整的詳細資訊。

And in terms of the full effect of the repricing waves in the P&L, most of the -- largely the full effect will be felt in the second quarter. There are still some waves done through the quarter, but they are smaller in size.

就損益表中重新定價浪潮的全部影響而言，大部分影響將在第二季顯現。本季仍會出現一些波動，但規模較小。

And how do you compare to your peers now?

現在您和同齡人相比怎麼樣？

Oh, sorry, I forgot that one. I think the message, and I think Pedro touched upon this, the whole industry is repricing and passing through the increase in interest rates. So we feel that with the movements that we did in terms of pricing, basically, everyone now has very similar prices across the industry. So it's basically a dynamic of catching up to the increase in interest rates and not an increase in spreads per se.

噢，抱歉，我忘了這一點。我認為這個訊息，我想佩德羅也提到了這一點，整個產業正在重新定價並經歷利率上升。因此，我們認為，透過我們在定價方面採取的舉措，基本上現在整個行業的價格都非常相似。因此，這基本上是一種追趕利率上升的動態，而不是利差本身的上升。

Tito Labarta, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的 Tito Labarta。

I also have two questions. I guess one, just following up on the guidance on the EPS with the guidance that you gave. It's based on the share buybacks that you've done. But as you mentioned, Mateus, you still have about another BRL900 million that you could do. So does that mean that there can be -- and I mean I know the guidance is above BRL8.6 billion, but if you do buybacks, that would imply the EPS will be higher.

我也有兩個問題。我想，首先，只是根據您給予的 EPS 指導來跟進。這是基於您已進行的股票回購。但正如您所說，馬特烏斯，您還有大約 9 億雷亞爾可以做。那麼這是否意味著可以——我的意思是我知道指導價高於 86 億雷亞爾，但如果你進行回購，那就意味著每股收益會更高。

And just to make sure I understood, because you bought back around 6% of the shares roughly, so that would imply net income growing around 11% and then the rest is sort of coming from the share buybacks, if my math is correct.

為了確保我理解正確，因為你回購了大約 6% 的股票，所以這意味著淨收入成長約 11%，其餘部分則來自股票回購，如果我的計算正確的話。

And then my second question on the sale of the software business. I understand you haven't received, I guess, an offer that you think meet your intrinsic value. I guess, one, are there still potential offers out there? Is there a chance that you can still sell it? Or do you think this is off the table at this point? Just so I want to understand if that's still a possibility of being sold or not. Thank you.

我的第二個問題是關於軟體業務的出售。我知道你還沒收到一份你認為符合你內在價值的報價。我想，第一，那裡是否還存在潛在的報價？你還有機會賣掉它嗎？還是您認為現在這個話題已經不可能了？我只是想知道這是否仍有可能被出售。謝謝。

Thanks for the question, Tito. I'll take the first one and then pass it over to Pedro for the second one.

謝謝你的提問，Tito。我會拿第一個，然後把它交給佩德羅拿第二個。

So in terms of the EPS guidance, I think you are spot on. So when you look at the implicit guidance for net income in 2025, it's BRL2.5 billion. So this reflects an adjusted net income growth of approximately 9%, while the EPS guidance exceeds 18%, right?

因此，就每股盈餘指引而言，我認為您的觀點是正確的。因此，當您查看 2025 年淨收入的隱含指引時，該數字為 25 億巴西雷亞爾。所以這反映了調整後的淨收入成長約 9%，而每股盈餘預期超過 18%，對嗎？

The difference here is primarily driven by the share buybacks executed since 2023. And apart from this, basically reflects the operational expectations and does not factor in any additional share buybacks, whether from existing or new programs. That said, as we move forward, again, if market conditions are favorable, we will continue repurchasing shares under the current program, which could represent an additional upside to the guidance. So I think you are right in your point.

這裡的差異主要是由 2023 年以來執行的股票回購所造成的。除此之外，基本上反映了營運預期，並沒有考慮任何額外的股票回購，無論是來自現有計劃還是新計劃。也就是說，隨著我們繼續前進，如果市場條件有利，我們將繼續按照當前計劃回購股票，這可能意味著指引將有額外的上行空間。所以我認為你的觀點是正確的。

Well, regarding the software asset, I think, first of all, I just wanted to highlight, and I think I tried to make this crystal clear in some ways in the letter to the shareholders. So we've been following a disciplined approach in terms of our decisions regarding our software assets, right? So despite changes in interest rates and despite receiving many offers over the past quarter or so, we didn't receive any offer that actually met or established intrinsic value for the specific asset.

嗯，關於軟體資產，我想首先，我只是想強調一下，我認為我在給股東的信中已經嘗試以某種方式把這一點說清楚了。所以，我們在軟體資產決策上一直遵循著嚴謹的方法，對嗎？因此，儘管利率發生了變化，並且儘管在過去一個季度左右收到了許多報價，但我們並沒有收到任何真正滿足或確定特定資產內在價值的報價。

So what we will continue and then what we will do is really we're going to stick in part to the strategy we defined back in our Investor Day. So we'll continue cross-selling financial services to our software clients and really focus in terms of maximizing value of the asset on a standalone basis. I think the big difference from the past is really that we have actually implemented all the synergies required to manage this asset appropriately, and we have set the right governance in place to really ensure that owning the asset is not a distraction to the core strategy of the company.

因此，我們將繼續做的是，實際上我們將部分堅持我們在投資者日定義的策略。因此，我們將繼續向我們的軟體客戶交叉銷售金融服務，並真正專注於在獨立基礎上實現資產價值最大化。我認為與過去最大的不同在於，我們實際上已經實施了適當管理這項資產所需的所有協同效應，並且我們已經建立了正確的治理機制，以真正確保擁有這項資產不會分散公司的核心策略。

So, sorry, just to follow up because I don't know if my question was more is there a possibility of this still being sold? Or do you think you sort of exhausted the offers and likelihood is that it's not sold at this point?

所以，抱歉，我只是想跟進一下，因為我不知道我的問題是這是否有可能還會被出售？或者您認為您已經用盡了所有報價，而且目前它很可能還未售出？

I think at this point, what we'll do is really focus on the execution and maximizing value for the asset.

我認為此時我們要做的是真正專注於執行和最大化資產價值。

Okay, great. Okay, makes sense. And maybe just to help us think about what that intrinsic value might be. Just a simplistic calculation here, you have paid about BRL6.3 billion for Linx, if I remember correctly, and you wrote off around BRL3.5 billion. I don't know if that was all 100% Linx, but that would leave maybe BRL2.7 billion. Is that a ballpark number that kind of makes sense for what that intrinsic value could be?

好的，太好了。好的，有道理。也許只是為了幫助我們思考內在價值是什麼。這只是一個簡單的計算，如果我沒記錯的話，你為 Linx 支付了大約 63 億雷亞爾，並且你註銷了大約 35 億雷亞爾。我不知道這是否全都是 Linx 的功勞，但那可能就剩下 27 億巴西雷亞爾了。這個大概的數字能合理地反映出其內在價值嗎？

Thank you. Mateus here. So I don't think we're going to comment specifically on what we see as intrinsic value. But as a reference point, if you look at the impairments line, you're going to see that the equity for the Software segment after the impairment is around BRL4 billion for the Software segment as a whole.

謝謝。這裡是馬特烏斯。因此我認為我們不會具體評論我們所認為的內在價值。但作為參考點，如果您看一下減損線，您會看到，減損後軟體部門的權益約為 40 億巴西雷亞爾。

And of course, when you're talking about any potential transaction, there are other considerations besides the intrinsic value of the asset per se, including the commercial agreements and so on and so forth. But as a reference, I think that's the best number that you have publicly available.

當然，當你談論任何潛在交易時，除了資產本身的內在價值之外，還有其他考慮因素，包括商業協議等等。但作為參考，我認為這是您公開提供的最佳數字。

Daniel Vaz, Safra.

丹尼爾·瓦茲，薩夫拉。

Good evening and congrats on the results. Very clear presentation.

晚上好，恭喜你取得的成績。表達非常清晰。

First, I'd like to hear more about Lia's comment on funding. I think at some point, she mentioned there will be a meaningful change in float revenue, but that should be EPS accretive over time. Could you share more details on this rollout and timing? And if the entire base will be migrated, what will be the details here? It would be very helpful to hear about it. And if there is any clear indication of what levels of spread over CDI or a percentage of CDI you should accommodate as cost of funding.

首先，我想聽聽 Lia 對資金的看法。我認為在某個時候，她提到浮動收入將發生重大變化，但隨著時間的推移，這應該會增加每股收益。您能否分享更多有關此次推出和時間安排的細節？如果整個基地都要遷移，那麼具體細節是怎麼樣的呢？聽到這個消息將會非常有幫助。如果有明確跡象表明您應將 CDI 的利差水準或 CDI 的百分比作為融資成本。

And the second question, following-up on capital. I think at some point, you will arrive on an optimal level of ROE. So there will be enough organic capital to support future growth and possibly continue with future buybacks. And how far do you think you're from this situation? And what's the current scenario that you expect this to happen? Is 2027 guidance really Northstar to it? Thank you.

第二個問題，關於資本的追蹤。我認為在某個時候，你將達到最佳的 ROE 水平。因此，將有足夠的有機資本來支持未來的成長，並可能繼續進行未來的回購。您認為您距離這種情況還有多遠？您預計目前的情況會是怎麼樣的？2027 年的指導方針真的是北極星嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Daniel, Lia here. I'm going to take the first part of the question, then Mateus, please add and continue to the second question.

你好，丹尼爾，我是莉亞。我將回答問題的第一部分，然後馬特烏斯，請添加並繼續回答第二個問題。

So regarding the rollout, we expect this rollout to happen incrementally throughout the year. No more specific information regarding that, but it's going to happen throughout this year. Like I already said and to address your question, we anticipate a positive impact. So just talking directionally about it.

因此，關於推出事宜，我們預計推出工作將在全年逐步進行。目前沒有關於此事的更多具體信息，但它將在今年全年發生。正如我已經說過的，並回答你的問題，我們預計會產生積極的影響。所以只是方向性地談論它。

This impact comes from a shift between financial lines, obviously. So specifically, while we will lose financial income from the floater on our deposits, this will be offset by a reduction in our funding costs. And there will be a positive impact as we benefit from lower taxes by having less float revenue, and then the spread between our funding costs and CDI as we switch these funding sources. So directionally, this is the effect. So this shift is going to be accretive to our P&L, and we expect to roll it out throughout the year.

顯然，這種影響來自於金融線之間的轉變。具體來說，雖然我們將失去來自存款浮動利率的財務收入，但這將透過降低融資成本來抵銷。而且這將產生正面的影響，因為我們可以透過減少浮動收入來降低稅收，並且隨著我們轉換這些資金來源，我們的融資成本和 CDI 之間的差額也會擴大。所以從方向來看，這就是效果。因此，這項轉變將會增加我們的損益，我們預計全年都會推行這項轉變。

Just to give some more color here, Daniel. So in terms of the rollout, what we're doing right now is what we call our cash sweeping strategy, which is basically using the deposits that we already have in place as a funding source, which we didn't do because we didn't have the licenses. As we do that, we expect a significant increase in the time deposits line within our retail deposits line with virtually zero cost.

只是為了在這裡提供更多色彩，丹尼爾。因此，就推出而言，我們現在正在做的是我們所謂的現金清掃策略，基本上是使用我們已經擁有的存款作為資金來源，但我們沒有這樣做，因為我們沒有許可證。當我們這樣做時，我們預計零售存款線中的定期存款線將大幅增加，而且成本幾乎為零。

And then over time, after we do this cash sweep, of course, we include other time deposits products, which are more closely related to investment products for the base. And then as this scales, this will lead to a gradual increase in the average cost of the deposit base. But again, I think we're going to start to give some figures on these numbers when they become relevant. For the moment being, I think it's more around using the deposits that we already have in place with virtually zero cost.

然後隨著時間的推移，在我們完成這項現金清掃之後，我們當然會包括其他定期存款產品，這些產品與基礎投資產品更密切相關。然後隨著規模的擴大，這將導致存款基數的平均成本逐漸增加。但是，我認為當這些數字變得有意義時，我們就會開始給出一些數值。目前，我認為這更多的是利用我們已經擁有的幾乎零成本的存款。

The second question, I think, was related to excess capital and how we see the funding of organic growth, if I got that right. So when I think about the framework that we put in place, we believe it already takes into account the capital that is needed to fund the growth of the 2027 plan.

我認為第二個問題與過剩資本以及我們如何看待有機成長的資金有關，如果我沒理解錯的話。因此，當我考慮我們建立的框架時，我們相信它已經考慮了資助 2027 年計劃增長所需的資金。

So if you look at the hurdles that we implemented, for example, for the first pillar, which is the regulatory capital, we're talking about a 20% hurdle, which is fairly high. And we feel that this already takes into account not only the current plan that we have in place, but also potential optionalities in terms of growing credit and so on and so forth. So the BRL3 billion figure, we feel it's really an excess in terms of capital that we have. And the discussion is more around how we're going to return that capital back to shareholders in the most efficient way.

因此，如果你看看我們實施的障礙，例如，對於第一個支柱，即監管資本，我們談論的是 20% 的障礙，這是相當高的。我們認為，這不僅考慮到了我們現行的計劃，還考慮了信貸成長等方面的潛在選擇。因此，我們認為 30 億巴西雷亞爾這個數字對於我們現有的資本而言確實是一個過剩數字。討論主要圍繞如何以最有效的方式將資本返還給股東。

I don't know if I fully answered your question on that point, Daniel.

丹尼爾，我不知道我是否完全回答了你關於這一點的問題。

Yeah, I think you did. And if I may follow up, maybe Pedro, to ask his view about the company's structure size. I mean, many of your competitors were expanding the sales force a year ago, which contributed to a worsening of efficiency across the industry. But now a year later, we see some of them to reverse in that move, right?

是的，我想你做到了。如果我可以跟進的話，也許是佩德羅，想問他對公司結構規模的看法。我的意思是，一年前，你們的許多競爭對手都在擴大銷售隊伍，這導致整個產業的效率下降。但現在一年過去了，我們看到其中一些舉措發生了逆轉，對嗎？

So I mean any views on when do you expect the business to have better room to economies of scale? Because so far, I think in the past two years, it was like more sales force, more aggressiveness between competition, and now we see some reversion of that trend. So very helpful to hear about it, if you could, Pedro.

所以我的意思是，您認為什麼時候企業才能更好地實現規模經濟？因為到目前為止，我認為在過去的兩年裡，銷售團隊更加強大，競爭更加激烈，而現在我們看到這種趨勢有所逆轉。佩德羅，如果可以的話，聽到這個消息非常有幫助。

Well, thank you for the question, Daniel. I think it's -- well, we've tried to highlight this over the past also calls. And I think there is a maturity process in terms of productivity of our sales force as we move ahead. And I think one of the key competitive advantages we have is really on the distribution channels. I think we tried to highlight that also in the Investor Day, and it takes time to mature.

好吧，謝謝你的提問，丹尼爾。我認為——我們在過去的通話中也曾試圖強調這一點。我認為，隨著我們不斷前進，我們的銷售團隊的生產力也會不斷成熟。我認為我們的主要競爭優勢之一就是通路。我想我們也試圖在投資者日強調這一點，它需要時間來成熟。

Having said that, I think more and more, we're going to rely on our operation, our technology-driven operational distribution platform. And I think this will leverage and improve more -- improve efficiency as we move ahead over the next years. I don't see this happening in the short term.

話雖如此，我認為我們將越來越依賴我們的運營，即我們的技術驅動的營運分銷平台。我認為這將在未來幾年內進一步提高我們的效率。我不認為這種情況短期內會發生。

I don't believe we're going to see big changes in terms of -- then your question is more driven to sales expenses related to revenues in some ways. I think there will be -- they're going to be flat in 2025, but we're going to improve efficiency over time to more technology-driven platform. I don't believe that the competitors are doing that. So I think it's a different strategy in some ways. But that's the way we're positioned to set ourselves up until 2027.

我不相信我們會見到大的變化——那麼你的問題在某種程度上更多的是與收入相關的銷售費用有關。我認為到 2025 年它們將會持平，但隨著時間的推移，我們將提高效率，實現更多技術驅動的平台。我不相信競爭對手會這麼做。所以我認為從某些方面來說這是一種不同的策略。但這就是我們為 2027 年所做的安排。

Yeah. And Daniel, if I can just complement what Pedro said, maybe separating in kind of three-time horizons, talking about the fourth quarter and then the year and then longer term.

是的。丹尼爾，如果我可以補充佩德羅所說的話，也許可以分成三個時間範圍，討論第四季度，然後是今年，然後更長期。

In the fourth quarter, we saw selling expenses increase sequentially as a percentage of revenues, primarily due to ongoing investments in our sales force, especially the specialist sales force, which is, number one, pretty critical in terms of going up the pyramid as we call it.

在第四季度，我們看到銷售費用佔收入的百分比環比增加，這主要是由於我們對銷售隊伍的持續投資，特別是專業銷售隊伍，這對於我們所說的金字塔上升至關重要。

So we have seen significant growth in what we call larger SMB clients. Specialist sales force are critical also for the cross-selling initiatives to sell financial services to software client installed client base. And naturally, also, it is critical on the credit side as well, because more and more, we are implementing direct distribution to scale on the credit side. So that was more the rationale for how selling behaved on the fourth quarter.

因此，我們看到所謂的大型 SMB 客戶出現了顯著的成長。專業銷售團隊對於向軟體客戶安裝的客戶群銷售金融服務的交叉銷售計劃也至關重要。當然，這對信貸方面也至關重要，因為我們越來越多地實施直接分配來擴大信貸規模。所以這更能解釋第四季的銷售表現。

Throughout this year, we expect mild dilution in selling expenses relative to revenues. But as Pedro mentioned, there's not going to be -- we shouldn't expect a big shift shorter term. I think over the longer term, as Pedro highlighted, we will see greater dilution, naturally, as the operation matures and those scale efficiencies materialize, as you mentioned.

我們預計，今年全年銷售費用相對於收入將會輕微稀釋。但正如佩德羅所提到的，我們不應該期待短期內會發生重大轉變。我認為從長遠來看，正如佩德羅所強調的，隨著業務的成熟和規模效率的實現，我們自然會看到更大的稀釋，正如您所說。

But also, we're very optimistic. And I think in some sense, ahead of the game, in terms of how we think about technology applied to our operation, I think our operations technology platform has been a pillar of the differentiation of our business model since day one. But we're working very hard to stay ahead in making sure that, for example, we can better leverage GenAI and more data to be more and more effective on how we approach distribution. So that should all contribute to selling that greater dilution over time.

但同時，我們也非常樂觀。我認為，從某種意義上說，就我們如何看待將技術應用於我們的營運而言，我們的營運技術平台自第一天起就一直是我們商業模式差異化的支柱。但我們正在努力保持領先地位，例如，確保我們可以更好地利用 GenAI 和更多數據，以便更有效地處理分銷問題。所以，隨著時間的推移，這一切都將有利於銷售更大程度的稀釋。

Renato Meloni, Autonomous Research.

雷納托‧梅洛尼 (Renato Meloni)，自主研究。

Just first, just a quick follow-up on the deposit side. And I just wanted to know if long term, you have a ratio of where deposits can stabilize as a percentage of TPV. I think that will be helpful.

首先，我們來快速跟進一下存款方面的問題。我只是想知道，從長期來看，存款佔 TPV 的百分比是否能夠穩定下來。我認為那將會有所幫助。

And my question is on the credit side. So first, how is your risk appetite this year, really given the potential credit cycle that we might enter in Brazil? And then secondly here, given all the initiatives that you have, how are you seeing -- and the changes that private payroll lending is facing in Brazil, how do you see this opportunity? And are you planning to explore it? Thank you.

我的問題是關於信用方面的。那麼首先，考慮到巴西可能進入的潛在信貸週期，您今年的風險偏好如何？其次，考慮到您採取的所有舉措，您如何看待巴西私人薪資貸款面臨的變化，您如何看待這個機會？您打算去探索它嗎？謝謝。

Hi, Renato, Lia here. So let me just start with the question around deposits. I think that math is easy to work out when you take out our long term -- when you consider our long-term guidance for deposits in TPV. The general trend is where I talked about at the beginning of the call, right? We continue to expect deposits to grow ahead of TPV growth. That is implied in the long-term guidance when you consider deposit growth versus TPV growth.

你好，雷納托，我是莉亞。那我先來談談存款問題。我認為，當你拿出我們的長期計劃——當你考慮到我們對 TPV 存款的長期指導時，這個數學問題就很容易解決了。整體趨勢就是我在通話開始時談到的，對嗎？我們仍預期存款成長將領先 TPV 成長。當您考慮存款成長與 TPV 成長時，這隱含在長期指引中。

And as much as we talk about engagement and we talk about heavy user metrics and how we are evolving on the banking roadmap, ultimately, we see the ratio between deposits as TPV as the best way to see how we're further engaging our clients with our banking solutions. So that can be worked backwards from the long-term guidance on deposits and TPV.

儘管我們經常談論參與度、重度用戶指標以及我們如何在銀行業務路線圖上發展，但最終，我們認為存款與 TPV 之間的比率是了解我們如何進一步讓客戶參與到我們的銀行解決方案中的最佳方式。因此，這可以從存款和 TPV 的長期指導中反向推導。

And then to talk about credit, I'll pass it over to Pedro.

然後談到信譽，我將把它交給佩德羅。

Yeah. I'll kick off, and Mateus can complement me as we move ahead. So I think at the end of last year, we have actually proactively adjusted our credit models to reflect the evolving, and I think as you all know, more challenging macroeconomic environment. So this led to a moderate increase in provisioning levels, which have now stabilized at around 12% of our portfolio.

是的。我先開始，馬特烏斯可以在我們前進的過程中輔助我。因此，我認為在去年年底，我們實際上已經主動調整了我們的信貸模型，以反映不斷變化且眾所周知的更具挑戰性的宏觀經濟環境。因此，這導致撥備水準適度上升，目前已穩定在我們投資組合的12%左右。

And additionally, we're also continuously adjusting the pricing of new disbursement to better reflect this changing macroeconomic and market conditions. So having said that, in terms of growth, I think we are closely monitoring our cohort performances and daily amortizations, a feature that is actually unique to our product. And we still -- I think we feel that there is room to grow the portfolio in 2025, given the low penetration of our credit products within our client base and the scaling of new offerings, such as credit cards and our overdraft solution.

此外，我們也不斷調整新支出的定價，以更好地反映不斷變化的宏觀經濟和市場條件。所以話雖如此，就成長而言，我認為我們正在密切監控我們的群組表現和每日攤銷，這是我們產品獨有的功能。而且我們仍然—我認為，考慮到我們的信貸產品在客戶群中的滲透率較低，以及信用卡和透支解決方案等新產品的規模，我們認為 2025 年投資組合仍有成長空間。

I don't know if Mateus want to add any point.

我不知道馬特烏斯是否想補充任何觀點。

Just a quick compliment. I think that the message here that we're trying to convey is the following. So I think we're being -- trying to be really cautious in terms of the macroenvironment. So we have set up many controls and monitoring of the amortization and the health of the portfolio. But at the same time, we need to keep in mind that the base is still really small.

只是一點小小的讚美。我認為我們在這裡試圖傳達的訊息如下。因此我認為我們正努力在宏觀環境方面保持非常謹慎。因此，我們對攤銷和投資組合的健康狀況設定了許多控制和監控。但同時，我們需要記住，基數仍然很小。

So when you think about the penetration of the product in the base, we are in the early beginnings. We have just resumed the offering of the product couple of quarters ago. So different than maybe other players, I think there is still room to grow while maintaining this cautious approach for the portfolio as a whole. So that's the message here.

因此，當您考慮產品在基地的滲透時，我們才剛剛開始。我們幾個季度前剛剛恢復提供該產品。因此，與其他參與者可能有所不同，我認為在對整個投資組合保持謹慎態度的同時，仍有成長空間。這就是這裡的資訊。

And I think there's a last one on payroll, maybe, Lia, wants to take that one?

我認為工資單上還有最後一個，莉亞，也許她想拿那個？

Yeah. I think just quickly on the discussion around regulation around payroll loans. Naturally, we are monitoring it closely. I think for us, it is beginning stages as we think about how we can deploy this as an opportunity. Naturally, within our ecosystem, as we launch our payroll solution to SMBs, that becomes a natural extension. But it's very early to say anything more specific than that.

是的。我認為只是快速討論一下有關工資貸款的監管問題。當然，我們正在密切關注此事。我認為對我們來說，這只是開始階段，我們正在思考如何利用這個機會。自然，在我們的生態系統中，當我們向中小企業推出工資解決方案時，這成為一種自然的延伸。但現在談論更具體的事情還為時過早。

Thank you. And then as the regulation evolve, do you plan to explore this further and even like try to get like customers from other competitors? Or the focus would still be within your base?

謝謝。那麼，隨著法規的發展，您是否計劃進一步探索這一點，甚至嘗試從其他競爭對手那裡獲得客戶？或重點仍然在你的基地內？

I think it's early to say, Renato. I think we'll be giving more clarity on this as we evolve.

我認為現在說這個還為時過早，雷納托。我認為，隨著我們的發展，我們會對此給出更清晰的解釋。

Yuri Fernandes, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的尤里費南德斯。

Hey, everyone, and congrats on the quarter. I have one on the capital position. I'm just trying to have like an easier framework to think on this. Usually, for banks, we look to loan growth as RWA growth. On your case, I guess, TPV may be the best proxy when we go to RWA, and we break down this by credit and the market, we see payments. This is still the main component. And we do see your TPV X PIX growing around, I don't know, low-teens, right?

大家好，恭喜本季取得佳績。我有一個關於資本狀況的。我只是想找一個更簡單的框架來思考這個問題。通常，對於銀行而言，我們將貸款成長視為 RWA 成長。就您而言，我猜，當我們轉到 RWA 時，TPV 可能是最好的代理，我們按信用和市場對其進行細分，我們會看到付款。這仍然是主要組成部分。我們確實看到您的 TPV X PIX 在增長，我不知道，低於十幾歲，對嗎？

And when we go to your ROE, really depends how we adjust it. But if you do some kind of tangible ROE for you, removing all the intangibles, we see Stone printing 30%, 35% tangible ROEs, right? So it's a pretty nice return.

當我們談到您的 ROE 時，實際上取決於我們如何調整它。但如果你為你做一些有形的 ROE，去除所有無形資產，我們會看到 Stone 列印 30%、35% 的有形 ROE，對嗎？因此，這是相當不錯的回報。

The question I have is, if this math makes sense, if you are growing your RWA around 12%, 13% and you are printing those 35% tangible ROEs. And I think you also reported like the financial unit ROE on your release, does it make sense to think like your excess capital generation is around like 60%, 65%, 70%? And if that's the case, is this a good proxy for your payout or buyback kind of potential? Just trying to to get to this number. Because the 20% core capital is useful, but our capital component has so many moving parts on operational risk phase out.

我的問題是，如果這個數學計算有意義，如果你將你的 RWA 成長率控制在 12%、13% 左右，並且你將獲得 35% 的實際 ROE。而且我認為您在發佈時也報告了金融部門的 ROE，那麼認為您的超額資本產生率約為 60%、65%、70% 是否合理？如果是這樣，這是否可以作為您支付或回購潛力的良好代表？只是想得到這個號碼。因為 20% 的核心資本是有用的，但是我們的資本部分在營運風險逐步消除方面有太多變動部分。

So for payment, we have so many moving parts on how we calculate our capital that I'm trying to think about the easier framework, like just trying as like we do for banks, like what is the RWA growth versus your ROE potential. And when I try to do this exercise, I get to those numbers, and I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Thank you.

因此，對於支付而言，我們在計算資本方面有很多活動部分，因此我試圖思考更簡單的框架，就像我們為銀行所做的那樣，例如 RWA 成長與 ROE 潛力之間的關係。當我嘗試做這個練習時，我得到了這些數字，我只是想確保我沒有遺漏任何東西。謝謝。

Hey, Yuri. Thanks for the question. Mateus here. So I think it's a great question and great rationale there. What I would say is the following: we have to divide here short versus longer term. So when you look short term, I think you've answered part of the question, which is we still have a lot of regulation changes in terms of how we calculate the RWAs, right? We have the phase-in, the new regulations and so forth. So shorter term, I think this rule of thumb does not necessarily work.

嘿，尤里。謝謝你的提問。這裡是馬特烏斯。所以我認為這是一個很好的問題並且有很好的理由。我想說的是：我們必須在這裡劃分短期與長期。因此，當您從短期來看時，我認為您已經回答了部分問題，即我們在如何計算 RWA 方面仍有許多監管變化，對嗎？我們已經進入了逐步實施階段，推出了新法規等等。因此從短期來看，我認為這個經驗法則不一定有效。

Longer term, I think you're going to be pretty close to the final answer of the model. But the second point that is important to make is that maybe differently than more mature peers, we need to keep in mind that there are other pillars in the framework. So it's not only around regulatory capital. We also have the ratings, the credit rating components, and the adjusted net cash.

從長遠來看，我認為你會非常接近模型的最終答案。但需要強調的第二點是，也許與更成熟的同行不同，我們需要記住框架中還有其他支柱。因此，這不僅涉及監管資本。我們還有評級、信用評級組成部分和調整後的淨現金。

Adjusted net cash at the end of the day, I think it's the easiest of the three pillars because we report the number, and the figure by the end of the year was BRL4.7 billion. So clearly, it was not the constraint.

最終調整後的淨現金，我認為這是三大支柱中最簡單的，因為我們報告了這個數字，而截至年底的數字是 47 億巴西雷亞爾。所以很明顯，這不是限制因素。

Credit ratings, you have to go through a little bit more math to get to the number. But if you look at the credit rating agencies, we use Moody's and S&P, they disclose the criteria for financial companies. So you can pretty easily map the metrics that they use for our current global ratings and then work the math out in terms of how much capital we have in excess for that pillar.

信用評級，你必須經過更多的數學運算才能得到這個數字。但如果你看看信用評等機構，我們使用穆迪和標準普爾，他們揭露了金融公司的標準。因此，您可以非常輕鬆地繪製他們用於我們當前全球評級的指標，然後計算我們在該支柱上擁有多少過剩資本。

I think putting all together, nowadays, the more restrictive constraint is indeed the regulatory capital. But I just want to be mindful as well that as you project forward on a given year, maybe the credit rating can also play a role.

我認為綜合起來，現在更嚴格的限制確實是監管資本。但我也要注意，當你預測某一年的未來時，信用評級也許也會發揮作用。

And if I may, just a quick second one. Just on the buybacks, what should we expect with the shares? Like are you going to cancel those shares? Are you going to use those shares for the SBC? Like what is the outcome here for those treasury shares? Thank you.

如果可以的話，我只想快速問第二個問題。就回購而言，我們對股票有何期待？例如，您要取消那些股票嗎？您會用這些股份來投資 SBC 嗎？那麼這些庫存股的結果是什麼呢？謝謝。

Yeah. So we're still finishing the evaluation, but the most likely scenarios that most of the shares are going to be canceled and we're going to use some of them to issue share-based compensation. So it's both.

是的。因此，我們仍在完成評估，但最有可能的情況是，大多數股票將被取消，我們將使用其中一些股票發行基於股票的補償。所以兩者都有。

Jamie Friedman, Susquehanna.

薩斯奎哈納的傑米·弗里德曼。

Congratulations on the strong finish to last year. I had two questions. I'll just ask them upfront.

恭喜您去年取得了圓滿的結局。我有兩個問題。我會提前問他們。

Lia, with regard to the software growth of 15%, it was a reacceleration. But I thought in your prepared remarks, you may have alluded to it coming from a partner or -- and then you have the financial attachment strategy. So I was just trying to get the clarification on that.

Lia，就軟體成長 15% 而言，這是一個重新加速的過程。但我認為在您準備好的發言中，您可能已經暗示它來自合作夥伴或—然後您就有了財務依附策略。所以我只是想澄清這一點。

And then if I could ask, so Pedro, in the shareholder letter, I mean it's a very thoughtful letter. But I wanted to ask, actually, about navigating the AI landscape. And just I guess you have a lot of metrics in here about penetrating with AI and customer service interactions, et cetera. How do you think about the efficiencies that you're delivering relative to this type of automation? Thank you.

然後如果我可以問的話，佩德羅，在股東信中，我的意思是這是一封非常深思熟慮的信。但我實際上想問的是有關人工智慧領域的導航問題。我猜你在這裡有很多關於人工智慧滲透和客戶服務互動等方面的指標。相對於這種自動化，您如何看待您所提​​供的效率？謝謝。

Hi, Jamie, Lia here. So I'm going to take your first question and then pass it over to Pedro. So regarding software revenue growth, in the Software segment specifically, we had a non-recurring effect in the amount of BRL8 million. That's not uncommon when we think about the dynamics of our enterprise software clients.

嗨，Jamie，我是 Lia。所以我將回答你的第一個問題，然後交給佩德羅。因此，就軟體收入成長而言，具體到軟體領域，我們產生了 800 萬巴西雷亞爾的非經常性收入。當我們考慮企業軟體客戶的動態時，這種情況並不罕見。

And additionally, there was one specific company within the software portfolio, Reclame Aqui, that had a good performance in the quarter. So that kind of explains the specific revenue trend in the quarter. But if we think more broadly about it, so we're not guiding on specific figures for our Software segment. But as a general trend, I think what we can expect is that organic growth should continue to be in line with recent trends.

此外，軟體組合中還有一家特定公司 Reclame Aqui，在本季表現良好。這在一定程度上解釋了本季的具體收入趨勢。但如果我們更廣泛地考慮這個問題，我們就不會為我們的軟體部門提供具體的數位指導。但作為整體趨勢，我認為我們可以預期的是有機成長應繼續與最近的趨勢保持一致。

And we still have some opportunities to improve margins within the business. So to think about margins more aligned with what we saw in the fourth quarter, that's kind of a good way to think about trends in the software segment.

我們仍有一些機會來提高業務利潤率。因此，將利潤率與我們在第四季度看到的利潤率更加一致，這是一種思考軟體領域趨勢的好方法。

So I'll pass it over to Pedro to address your second question.

因此我將把這個問題交給佩德羅來回答你的第二個問題。

Well, thank you for the question. In some ways, you actually provided answers. I think what we've done so far are really quick wins in terms of how we use predictive models and GenAI into our operations. So for me, it's really peripherical wins that are quick wins that we can put in place to optimize results, right?

嗯，謝謝你的提問。從某些方面來看，你確實提供了答案。我認為，就如何將預測模型和 GenAI 運用到我們的營運中而言，我們迄今為止所做的確實取得了快速的勝利。所以對我來說，這實際上是外圍的勝利，是我們可以實施的快速勝利，以優化結果，對嗎？

I think the challenge we have, and that's not only to ourselves but to the industry as a whole, is how we use GenAI to actually disrupt our own model and improve our business model as we move ahead. I tried to address part of this when we talked about sales distributions and the channels that we have established as of today. I think this is where the big change might come from. And whoever takes the first step, we'll take the lead in terms of new industry dynamics and how we're going to move ahead.

我認為我們面臨的挑戰（這不僅是對我們自己的挑戰，也是對整個產業的挑戰）在於我們如何利用 GenAI 來真正顛覆我們自己的模式，並在前進的過程中改進我們的商業模式。當我們談論銷售分佈和迄今為止建立的管道時，我試圖解決部分問題。我認為巨大的改變可能就源自於此。無論誰邁出第一步，我們都將在新的行業動態和前進方向方面佔據領先地位。

So that's a long answer to say it's really short-term efficiency gains. And I think what we're preparing is really for the infinite game as we move ahead. That's where the big changes will come.

很長的回答都只是說這其實是一種短期效率的提升。我認為，我們所做的準備其實是為了未來的無限遊戲。巨大的變化即將發生在這裡。

This concludes the question-and-answer session. I will now turn over to Pedro Zinner, CEO at StoneCo, for final considerations.

問答環節到此結束。現在，我將把發言權交給 StoneCo 執行長 Pedro Zinner，讓他發表最後的演講。

Well, thank you all very much for participating in the call. I think the company presented strong results in 2024, and we are really looking forward for 2025 and the coming years. Thank you very much.

好吧，非常感謝大家參加電話會議。我認為公司在 2024 年取得了強勁的業績，我們對 2025 年及未來幾年充滿期待。非常感謝。

This does conclude today's presentation. You may disconnect now, and have a nice evening.

今天的演講到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接，並享受愉快的夜晚。