Stellantis NV (STLA) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Hello, and welcome to Stellantis full-year 2024 results. I will now hand over to our host, Ed Ditmire, Head of Investor Relations, to begin today's conference. Thank you.

您好，歡迎了解 Stellantis 2024 年全年業績。現在，我將把主持人、投資者關係主管 Ed Ditmire 交給我們，開始今天的會議。謝謝。

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today as we review Stellantis full-year 2024 results. Earlier today, the presentation for this call, along with the related press release were posted under the Investors section of the Stellantis group website. Today, our call is hosted by John Elkann, Executive Chairman; and Doug Ostermann, the company's Chief Financial Officer. After their prepared remarks, Mr. Elkann and Mr. Ostermann will be available to answer questions from the analysts.

大家好，感謝您今天加入我們，一起回顧 Stellantis 2024 年全年業績。今天早些時候，本次電話會議的簡報以及相關新聞稿已發佈在 Stellantis 集團網站的「投資者」部分。今天，我們的電話會議由執行董事長約翰·埃爾坎 (John Elkann) 主持；以及公司財務長Doug Ostermann。在發表準備好的發言後，埃爾坎先生和奧斯特曼先生將回答分析師的問題。

Before we begin, I want to point out that any forward-looking statements we might make on today's call are subject to the risks and uncertainties mentioned in the Safe-Harbor statement included on page 2 of today's presentation. As customary, the call will be governed by that language.

在我們開始之前，我想指出，我們在今天的電話會議上做出的任何前瞻性陳述都受到今天簡報第 2 頁中的安全港聲明中提到的風險和不確定性的影響。按照慣例，通話將以該語言為準。

Now I'll hand over the call to John Elkann, Executive Chairman, Stellantis.

現在我將把電話交給 Stellantis 執行主席 John Elkann。

Thank you, Ed. Doug and I are really happy to be here today. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to all of you. We'd like to talk to you about our last 90 days, our 2024, '25 and the future. But before we start, we'd like to share with you a sneak preview of the upcoming ad of the Grande Panda, which we did with Shaggy on the 30th anniversary of his global hit Bombastic. Enjoy.

謝謝你，艾德。道格和我今天非常高興來到這裡。大家早安，下午好，晚上好。我們想和你們談談我們過去的 90 天、2024 年、2025 年以及未來。但在開始之前，我們想先和大家分享 Grande Panda 即將推出的廣告預告，這是我們與 Shaggy 合作拍攝的，以紀念他的全球熱門歌曲 Bombastic 30 週年。享受。

(video playing)

（影片播放）

The reason we wanted to share with you the ad is because it does reflect the momentum, the mood at the company today and how we're very focused in making sure that we win customers. So in these last 90 days, we've prioritized on product launches. Just as a reminder, [20 and 24 10] in '25. In December, in the US, we're back with muscle cars with our Dodge, Daytona and the Wagoneer S. We also had launches in January in Europe, the Grande Panda, which you just saw, but the [Citroën Ami and the Opel Frontera].

我們想與你們分享這則廣告的原因是，它確實反映了公司當前的勢頭和情緒，以及我們如何專注於確保贏得客戶。因此，在過去的 90 天裡，我們優先考慮產品發布。提醒一下，'25 年的 [20 和 24 10]。12 月，我們在美國重新推出了肌肉車，包括道奇、Daytona 和 Wagoneer S。 1 月，我們還在歐洲推出了 Grande Panda，也就是你剛才看到的，但[雪鐵龍 Ami 與歐寶 Frontera]。

We've also been extremely focused on building trust with our stakeholders, with you, our shareholders, and we want to thank you for your trust. Ed, Doug and myself have been reaching out and making sure that you know what's happening with our company. But we also have been very deliberate in working out with our suppliers, with our unions, with our dealers, as we believe that we need this trust, we need this unity in order for us to grow together.

我們也非常注重與我們的利害關係人、與你們、我們的股東建立信任，我們要感謝你們的信任。艾德、道格和我一直在與您聯繫，確保您了解我們公司的情況。但我們也非常謹慎地與我們的供應商、工會、經銷商合作，因為我們相信我們需要這種信任，我們需要這種團結，這樣我們才能一起成長。

And lastly, we have been very focused in empowering our regions making sure that decisions are made where our customers are and making sure that problems are solved where they happen. Now if we look forward, what we really want to focus on is growth, profitable growth. We need our company to go back to profitable growth. Execution. We need to be rigorous in making sure as we develop, as we build, as we sell our cars we are rigorous and we execute.

最後，我們非常注重增強我們各地區的權力，確保在客戶所在的地方做出決策，並確保在問題發生的地方解決問題。現在，如果我們展望未來，我們真正想要關注的是成長、獲利性成長。我們需要讓我們的公司恢復獲利成長。執行。我們需要嚴格確保我們在開發、製造和銷售汽車時都是嚴謹的，並且能夠執行。

And lastly, profitability. Top line doesn't necessarily equate with profits. And we want to make sure that at Stellantis, it does and we also want to make sure that those profits convert into cash. One of the things that we've been prioritizing to that end is really making sure that we spend capital where our customers are and in order to do this, we have been very deliberate in making sure that our customers are free to choose.

最後，盈利能力。營業額不一定等於利潤。我們希望確保 Stellantis 能夠做到這一點，我們也希望確保這些利潤能夠轉化為現金。為此，我們優先考慮的事情之一就是確保我們的資金花在客戶所在的地方，為了做到這一點，我們非常謹慎地確保我們的客戶可以自由選擇。

Our offering, both in products and powertrains has been extending in order for us to have a much bigger reach in terms of coverage of the market going from what we do in hybrids in Europe, going to combustion engines in the US or doubling down where we're very strong in South America, in Brazil with bio hybrids. Now I have many other good news, but I'd like to stop now and pass it over to Doug to talk to you about 2024, which is a year we are not proud of.

我們提供的產品和動力系統一直在不斷擴展，以便我們在市場覆蓋方面擁有更大的影響力，從我們在歐洲的混合動力汽車到美國的內燃機汽車，或者在南美、巴西等我們實力雄厚的領域加倍投入生物混合動力汽車。現在我還有很多其他好消息，但現在我想停下來，把時間交給道格，和大家談談 2024 年，這是我們並不引以為傲的一年。

I certainly agree with your sentiment, John. 2024 was a very rough year. So let's walk through the numbers. I'll start with a summary of the key performance metrics. I'd like to focus first in particular, on the AOI margin and industrial free cash flow and how these landed within the context of the full year guidance that was updated in September of last year.

我當然同意你的觀點，約翰。 2024 年是非常艱難的一年。讓我們來看看這些數字。我首先要概述關鍵績效指標。我首先要特別關注的是 AOI 利潤率和工業自由現金流，以及它們如何與去年 9 月更新的全年指引相符。

In the second half of the year to address excess US dealer inventories, the company dialed up incentives and cut back on production, which, of course, negatively impacted the AOI, which ended up at the bottom of the range that we had provided of 5.5% to 7% AOI margin.

下半年，為了解決美國經銷商庫存過剩的問題，公司加大了激勵力度並削減了產量，這當然對 AOI 產生了負面影響，最終跌到了我們提供的 5.5% 至 7% AOI 利潤率範圍的底部。

At the same time, success correcting inventories allowed us to begin normalizing production, which limited negative industrial free cash flow to EUR6 billion for 2024, closer to the better end of the negative EUR5 million to negative EUR10 billion guidance range.

同時，成功調整庫存使我們能夠開始正常化生產，從而將 2024 年的負工業自由現金流限制在 60 億歐元，更接近負 500 萬歐元至負 100 億歐元指導範圍的較高值。

Consolidated shipments of 5.4 million vehicles were down 750,000 units or 12% due to the following factors. About one-third of that 750,000 units was a result of our inventory reduction actions. The other two-third were related to lower sales in 2024 compared to the prior year of which about half was due to the temporary hiatus in certain nameplates, such as our European ICE-powered FIAT 500, the Dodge 2 and 4 door muscle cars in the US and of course, the lack of the Jeep Cherokee.

綜合出貨量為540萬輛，下降75萬輛，降幅為12%，主要受以下因素影響。這 75 萬台中的約三分之一是我們減少庫存行動的結果。其餘三分之二與 2024 年銷量較前一年下降有關，其中約一半是由於某些品牌的暫時停產，例如我們的歐洲 ICE 動力 FIAT 500、美國的道奇 2 門和 4 門肌肉車，當然還有吉普切諾基的缺席。

And the other half was due, frankly, to lower commercial performance and loss of market share. Net revenues of EUR157 billion declined 17% as two factors exacerbated the lower shipment volumes. First was mix, particularly due to a lower contribution from North America and the second was FX headwinds that we experienced in the third engine regions. Adjusted diluted earnings per share of EUR2.48 declined 61% with AOI down 64% and but the average share count 5% lower as a result of buyback activities.

而另一半則坦白說是由於商業表現下降和市場佔有率損失。由於兩個因素加劇了出貨量下降，淨收入下降了 17%，達到 1570 億歐元。首先是混合因素，特別是由於北美的貢獻較低；其次是我們在第三引擎區域遇到的外匯逆風。調整後每股攤薄收益為 2.48 歐元，下降 61%，AOI 下降 64%，但由於回購活動，平均股數下降 5%。

Now let's get into how we've been working on fixing the root causes of the operational issues we faced in 2024. We're set up to be in a much better position on three critical factors as we progress into 2025. First, inventory discipline; second, market coverage; and third, our competitiveness. So on inventories, we first normalized European inventories in the first half of the year. And then in the second half, we reduced US dealer stock from 430,000 units in the mid-year to 304,000 units at the end of the year, well below our stated target of 330,000 units.

現在讓我們來了解我們如何努力解決 2024 年面臨的營運問題的根本原因。隨著我們邁入 2025 年，我們將在三個關鍵因素上處於更有利的地位。第一，庫存紀律；第二，市場覆蓋率；第三，我們的競爭力。因此，在庫存方面，我們首先在上半年將歐洲庫存正常化。然後在下半年，我們將美國經銷商庫存從年中的 430,000 輛減少到年底的 304,000 輛，遠低於我們設定的 330,000 輛的目標。

Second, we're launching a number of exciting new products not only late 2024 launches of the initial smart car and STLA Large products, nameplates like the Citroën C3, Dodge Charger and the Jeep Wagoneer S, but also in Q1 of 2025, introductions of the Citroën C3 Aircross, the Opel Frontera and the Fiat Grande Panda.

其次，我們將推出一系列令人興奮的新產品，不僅將在 2024 年底推出首款智慧型汽車和 STLA Large 產品，例如雪鐵龍 C3、道奇 Charger 和吉普 Wagoneer S 等品牌，而且還將在 2025 年第一季度推出雪鐵龍 C3 Aircross、歐寶 Frontera 和菲亞特 Grande Panda。

Last but not least, there was progress on making our cars more affordable as we exited 2024. For example, in the US, we repositioned MSRPs for four of our 2025 model year jeeps. And in Europe, our new generation of appealing B segment cars bring BEV and mild hybrid powertrains to new price points.

最後但同樣重要的一點是，隨著 2024 年的臨近，我們在汽車價格變得更實惠方面取得了進展。例如，在美國，我們重新定位了四款 2025 年吉普車的建議零售價。在歐洲，我們新一代頗具吸引力的 B 級車將 BEV 和輕度混合動力系統推向了新的價格點。

Let's look quickly at where we ended the year on inventories. We're in a very healthy place at the group level as well as in each of the four major regions we operate in. Total inventories were reduced around 140,000 units over the last three months of the year. With all of that decline coming in company inventories, while dealer inventories rose a very nominal 11,000 units. As planned increases in South America and Europe were mostly offset by reductions in US dealer stock.

讓我們快速看一下今年年底的庫存。無論在集團層級或是我們經營的四個主要地區，我們都處於非常健康的狀況。今年最後三個月，總庫存減少了約14萬台。所有這些下降都來自於公司庫存，而經銷商庫存僅增加了 11,000 台。由於南美和歐洲的計劃增長，大部分被美國經銷商庫存的減少所抵消。

You can also see the decline in stock year-over-year, reflecting the more dialed in inventory management as well as the impact of some of the product lines where we were temporarily between generations. As we launched several significant models in 2025, we expect some building stock levels, but we'll be looking to keep the days supply very carefully managed.

您還可以看到庫存逐年下降，這反映了庫存管理的加強以及我們暫時處於兩代產品之間的某些產品線的影響。由於我們在 2025 年推出了幾款重要車型，我們預計會有一定的建築庫存水平，但我們會非常謹慎地管理供應天數。

Okay. On this next slide, let's look at the net revenue bridge. Net revenue for the group declined 17% in 2024. As I said at the beginning of the financial review, volume and mix were the biggest revenue headwinds, driving 15 points of that revenue decline. Moving to pricing.

好的。在下一張投影片中，我們來看看淨收入橋。2024年該集團淨收入下降17%。正如我在財務回顧開始時所說的那樣，銷售和產品組合是最大的收入阻力，導致收入下降 15 個百分點。轉向定價。

There was a negative EUR1.3 billion group impact or a little under 1%. And which was the net of a roughly 2% headwind in each of North America and Europe, partially offset by positive pricing in the third region -- third engine regions, but that was mainly to offset FX. FX headwinds were negative EUR3.6 billion or negative 2%, driven by declines in the Turkish lira, Brazilian real, and Argentinian peso.

集團受到的負面影響為 13 億歐元，略低於 1%。這是北美和歐洲各約 2% 逆風的淨值，部分被第三地區（第三引擎地區）的積極定價所抵消，但這主要是為了抵消外匯影響。受土耳其里拉、巴西雷亞爾和阿根廷比索下跌的影響，外匯逆風為負 36 億歐元，即負 2%。

Now let's shift our attention to adjusted operating income. AOI came in at EUR8.6 billion. Of course, that's a steep pullback from the 2023 record EUR24.3 billion, in large part due to marginal profitability in the second half of 2024 when inventory clearing in North America and transition gaps in Europe brought temporary revenue and profitability impacts.

現在讓我們將注意力轉移到調整後的營業收入。AOI 達 86 億歐元。當然，這與 2023 年創紀錄的 243 億歐元相比大幅回落，很大程度上是由於 2024 年下半年北美庫存清理和歐洲轉型差距帶來的暫時收入和盈利影響導致的邊際盈利能力下降。

We've detailed the headwinds in volume, mix and pricing already, but industrial costs were also higher by EUR1.5 billion, with most of this coming from North America, mainly driven by incremental warranty expense and the side effects of volume reduction.

我們已經詳細說明了產量、產品組合和定價方面的不利因素，但工業成本也增加了 15 億歐元，其中大部分來自北美，主要是由於保固費用增加和產量減少的副作用。

And lastly, we had a EUR2.5 billion negative impact from FX. Let's turn to Industrial free cash flow now. Obviously, a very difficult result for the full year of 2024 with EUR6 billion in cash outflow. There's a couple of things I want to point out that are important. First, although the main reason for the lower cash flow was lower AOI, we were also impacted by growth in working capital of nearly EUR5 billion, and we had around EUR1.6 billion in higher capital expenditures.

最後，外匯為我們帶來了 25 億歐元的負面影響。現在讓我們來討論工業自由現金流。顯然，2024 年全年的現金流出量高達 60 億歐元，這對公司來說是十分艱難的成績。我想指出幾件重要的事情。首先，雖然現金流較低的主要原因是AOI較低，但我們也受到近50億歐元營運資本成長的影響，且我們的資本支出增加了約16億歐元。

Now moving forward into 2025, we expect more normalized production schedules to stabilize working capital. In fact, we saw fairly stabilized working capital even in the second half of last year and, of course, flattish capital expenditures as new product launch cadence normalizes a bit.

現在，展望 2025 年，我們預計會有更多標準化的生產計畫來穩定營運資金。事實上，即使在去年下半年，我們也看到營運資本相當穩定，當然，隨著新產品發布節奏逐漸正常化，資本支出也趨於平穩。

Now let's review a few specifics on each of our regional segments. In North America, of course, I want to recognize that the inventory reduction actions and the progress repositioning our pricing relative to peers pressured results in 2024, particularly in the second half. But this also sets the region up in a much improved position to start 2025.

現在讓我們回顧一下每個區域部分的一些具體情況。當然，在北美，我想承認庫存減少行動以及相對於同業重新定位定價的進展對 2024 年的業績產生了壓力，尤其是在下半年。但這也為該地區在 2025 年初奠定了更有利的地位。

In Europe, we had an unusual gap in production of our A and B segment products, which reduced second half volumes by well over 100,000 units. The B segment successors are now in production, setting up improved market coverage moving forward. The third engine regions collectively saw a 7% revenue decline, but would have been up single digits, excluding the impact of FX translation headwinds. Combined AOI margins were down by only 1 percentage point, still at a healthy 14%.

在歐洲，我們的 A 類和 B 類產品的產量出現了異常缺口，導致下半年產量減少了 10 萬多台。B 級車型的後續車型現已投入生產，將為未來市場覆蓋奠定更堅實的基礎。第三引擎地區的總收入下降了 7%，但如果不計入外匯翻譯不利因素的影響，則收入將成長個位數。綜合 AOI 利潤率僅下降了 1 個百分點，仍維持在健康的 14%。

So now that we've reviewed the 2024 performance, let's take a look forward at 2025. Looking now at the return of capital to shareholders. The company's strong balance sheet allowed it to execute the 2024 return -- capital return plan without interruption. This continued track record of annual material returns to shareholders that we began back in 2022.

現在我們已經回顧了 2024 年的表現，讓我們展望一下 2025 年。現在來看向股東的資本回報。該公司強勁的資產負債表使其能夠不間斷地執行2024年的回報——資本回報計劃。我們從 2022 年開始持續為股東帶來年度實質回報。

For the EUR0.68 per share proposed dividend, the company calibrated the payout at EUR1.7 billion, the top of the 25% to 30% policy and then supplemented this with the EUR300 million enterprise value recognized by the Kamal transaction.

對於每股 0.68 歐元的擬議股息，該公司將派息額調整為 17 億歐元，即 25% 至 30% 政策的最高額，然後用 Kamal 交易確認的 3 億歐元企業價值進行補充。

This delivers on the commitment the company made to separate Kamal for the benefit of our shareholders. The balance sheet remains in a very strong position with a 32% ratio of liquidity, slightly above the top of our 25% to 30% target. Given the early stage though, of our commercial recovery, we don't expect to be doing stock buybacks in the first half of 2025. And we'll return to evaluating them as income and cash flow improve throughout the year.

這兌現了公司為股東利益分離卡邁勒的承諾。資產負債表仍然處於非常強勁的狀態，流動性比率為 32%，略高於我們 25% 至 30% 的目標上限。不過，考慮到我們的商業復甦還處於早期階段，我們預計 2025 年上半年不會進行股票回購。隨著全年收入和現金流的改善，我們將重新評估。

Now let's look at our initiation of 2025 financial guidance. Steady improvement from a difficult second half of 2024, through the first and second half of '25 is expected as we expand our product portfolio and progress our commercial recovery. On the revenue side, in 2025, we expect the second half of 2025 to be stronger than the first half of 2025, both in the absolute and more so in terms of year-over-year comparisons. And full year net revenues are expected to show improvement compared to 2024.

現在讓我們來看看我們啟動的 2025 年財務指引。隨著我們擴大產品組合併推動商業復甦，預計 2024 年下半年的艱難時期將在 2025 年上半年和下半年穩步改善。在收入方面，我們預計 2025 年下半年的收入將強於 2025 年上半年，無論是絕對收入還是同比收入。預計全年淨收入將比 2024 年有所改善。

Let me address our expectation for strengthening second half revenues, which, of course, is in contrast to the typical seasonality that we run. Europe will benefit in the second half from the full ramp of recent launches of the Smart Card platform products, and later introductions of additional C segment products off of our STLA Med.

讓我來談談我們對下半年營收成長的預期，當然，這與我們的典型季節性形成了對比。歐洲將在下半年受益於最近全面推出的智慧卡平台產品，以及隨後推出的 STLA Med 的其他 C 段產品。

While North America will benefit in the second half from the return of the ice variance of the charger, the RAM charge range extender truck and the return of the midsized Jeep SUV with our first-ever HEV powertrain. In terms of adjusted operating income margin, we're driving to deliver mid-single digits for the full year of 2025, but with significant variation between the first half and second half.

而北美將在下半年受益於充電器冰面變型的回歸、RAM 充電增程器卡車以及搭載我們首款 HEV 動力系統的中型吉普 SUV 的回歸。就調整後的營業收入利潤率而言，我們力爭在 2025 年全年實現中等個位數成長，但上半年和下半年之間將有顯著差異。

In the first half, we expect AOI margin to see solid sequential improvement from the second half of 2024, where we ran roughly breakeven, but remain still in low single digits. In the second half of the year, we expect larger sequential margin improvement as the growing product portfolio not only raises our volume potential, but also helps us run our manufacturing at a more efficient utilization level.

我們預計，上半年 AOI 利潤率將從 2024 年下半年開始穩定提升，下半年基本上達到收支平衡，但仍維持在較低的個位數水準。下半年，我們預計利潤率將實現更大幅度的連續改善，因為不斷增長的產品組合不僅提高了我們的銷售潛力，而且還幫助我們以更有效率的利用率運行製造。

On the cash side, we expect to return to positive industrial free cash flow in 2025 and for those positive flows to come in the second half of the year. In essence, we expect gradual but solid improvement as 2025 progresses.

在現金方面，我們預計工業自由現金流將在 2025 年恢復為正值，而這些正值流量將在下半年出現。本質上，我們預計隨著 2025 年的進展，情況將逐步但穩定改善。

And finally, I want to talk about something beyond 2025. As I took the CFO job late in 2024 and began engaging with investors and analysts, of course, many of which are on the call today. I received very clear feedback, I'd say that giving more frequent and sometimes more detailed information is needed.

最後，我想談談2025年以後的事。由於我在 2024 年底擔任財務官，並開始與投資者和分析師接觸，當然，其中許多人今天都在電話會議上。我收到了非常明確的回饋，我想說需要提供更頻繁、有時更詳細的資訊。

And so I'm very excited to announce that we've begun the process of transitioning to quarterly reporting, which we expect to begin in the first quarter of 2026. Now the benefits for our stakeholders are clear, in particular, facilitating better comparisons to our most relevant peers, the vast majority of whom are already reporting earnings on a quarterly basis. So let me now turn things back to John to finish.

因此，我很高興地宣布，我們已經開始過渡到季度報告的過程，預計將於 2026 年第一季開始。現在，我們的利害關係人獲得的利益是顯而易見的，特別是可以更好地與最相關的同行進行比較，其中絕大多數已經按季度報告收益。現在讓我把事情交還給約翰來完成。

Thank you, Doug, and the future is brighter as Doug mentioned, from where we were in 2024. I'd like to share with you a couple of reflections on direction of travel. Our industry is very much addressing the forces that were the reasons why we created Stellantis in 2021. Electrification is growing China is the largest market in the world, and we see progress in terms of market share overall. And we believe that we have made significant inroads both in terms of our offering of electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles.

謝謝你，道格，正如道格所提到的，從 2024 年的情況來看，未來會更加光明。我想和大家分享一些關於旅行方向的思考。我們的產業正在積極應對促使我們在 2021 年創建 Stellantis 的各種因素。電氣化正在發展，中國是世界上最大的市場，我們看到整體市場份額的進步。我們相信，我們在電動車和混合動力車方面都取得了重大進展。

We believe that software is becoming a major feature, and we see this with AI and autonomous features last year, Tesla launched its robotaxi's, more recently, BYD launched its [Eyes-Off] features. This is the reason why we have decided that software and engineering should be tighter together in order for us to make sure that we are fast in terms of the applications we work on software.

我們相信軟體正在成為一個主要功能，我們在去年的人工智慧和自動駕駛功能中看到了這一點，特斯拉推出了其機器人計程車，最近，比亞迪推出了其[Eyes-Off]功能。這就是為什麼我們決定將軟體和工程更緊密地結合起來，以確保我們在軟體應用方面能夠快速發展。

And finally, scale. We are today with the '24 figures, the third largest carmaker in terms of units, and we see scale both in the incumbent world and the insurgent world as extremely important. We see this with alliances, for example, like GM and Hyundai announced recently or consolidation happening in China. We have been beneficiary of the scale, and we also see our scale opportunity of doing more, for example, like the JV that we announced with CATL.

最後，規模。如今，我們的銷量已達 24 輛，是全球第三大汽車製造商，我們認為，無論是在現有市場還是新興市場，規模都極為重要。例如，我們從通用汽車和現代汽車最近宣布的聯盟或中國發生的合併中看到了這一點。我們一直是規模的受益者，我們也看到了透過規模做更多事情的機會，例如我們與 CATL 宣布成立的合資企業。

We've had rising challenges since we've come together and created Stellantis. Regulations have become tougher and divergent. We have now deep discussions with the European Commission in understanding what's the direction of travel in Europe, pertaining to '25, but beyond what happens in 2025. We have been encouraged to see what Senator Moreno has introduced with the Transportation Freedom Act, which we support in the US.

自從我們走到一起並創建 Stellantis 以來，我們面臨的挑戰就不斷增加。法規變得更加嚴格且更加多樣化。我們現在正與歐盟委員會進行深入討論，以了解歐洲的發展方向，包括2025年以及2025年以後的發展方向。我們很高興看到莫雷諾參議員提出的《運輸自由法案》，我們在美國支持該法案。

In terms of tariffs, we have been very supportive of President Trump's policy of boosting American manufacturing. And we announced large US investments in the first 100 hours of his new administration. We believe that the conversations that we're having with the other members of the [DFI] have been constructive. And we fundamentally believe that the first Trump administration as it negotiated the USMCA was very cognizant of making sure that US.

在關稅方面，我們非常支持川普總統促進美國製造業的政策。我們在他的新政府上任後的頭100個小時就宣布了對美國的大規模投資。我們相信，我們與 [DFI] 其他成員進行的對話是建設性的。我們從根本上相信，第一屆川普政府在談判 USMCA 時非常清楚要確保美國。

content was in the products we build in Canada and Mexico, which we believe should remain tariff free. We also think that the real opportunity set for the administration in order to really boost jobs in America and manufacturing opportunities and investments is by closing the loophole that currently allows approximately 4 million of vehicles into the country with any US content.

內容是我們在加拿大和墨西哥生產的產品，我們認為這些產品應該保持免關稅。我們也認為，為了真正促進美國的就業、製造業機會和投資，政府面臨的真正機會是彌補目前允許約 400 萬輛含有美國成分的汽車進入美國的漏洞。

We also think that competition has increased since we came together, particularly competition coming from China. I just came back from a trip of a week where I had the opportunity of spending time with our partners, Leap Motors. First of all, we're very happy about their results. In Q4, they have reached profitability. In '24, they've doubled their sales now to 300,000.

我們也認為，自從我們走到一起以來，競爭就變得更加激烈，尤其是來自中國的競爭。我剛結束了為期一周的旅行，有機會與我們的合作夥伴零跑車共度時光。首先，我們對他們的成績感到非常高興。在第四季度，他們已經實現盈利。24 年，他們的銷量翻了一番，達到 30 萬份。

And our Leap motor international venture is up to a very good start. So overall, the challenges and the industry forces remain the same. But we have full confidence that Stellantis that what is ahead is probably among the most exciting periods for our industries, very much like the one, the pioneers of our industry live through.

我們的零跑汽車國際業務已經有了很好的開始。因此總體而言，挑戰和行業力量保持不變。但我們完全相信，Stellantis，未來可能是我們行業最令人興奮的時期之一，非常類似於我們行業先驅所經歷的時期。

And the reason why we believe in Stellantis that the opportunities ahead are there to be captured is because we have people that are incredible. I've had the opportunity in the last 90 days to spend a lot of time inside our organization, a lot of time in our different regions, and our people are just wonderful and I really want to take the opportunity to thank them for what they do and how they do it.

我們之所以相信 Stellantis 有無限的機會等待我們去把握，是因為我們擁有一群非常優秀的人才。在過去的 90 天裡，我有幸在我們的組織內部、在不同的地區度過了很多時間，我們的員工非常出色，我真的想藉此機會感謝他們所做的一切以及他們的工作方式。

I also would like to take the opportunity to recognize the many contributions of Carlos Tavares to Stellantis. These contributions have helped create our company, which is a company that has not only strong foundations, but real competitive strengths, of which are people. I also want to take the opportunity of mentioning that the CEO selection is on track.

我還想藉此機會表彰卡洛斯·塔瓦雷斯 (Carlos Tavares) 對 Stellantis 的許多貢獻。這些貢獻幫助我們創造了公司，這家公司不僅擁有強大的基礎，而且擁有真正的競爭優勢，而競爭優勢就是人才。我還想藉此機會提一下，執行長的選拔工作正在順利進行中。

We have excellent candidates, both internally and externally. And the conversations that we're having are very encouraging for us to have the best possible CEO for a company and stay on track with the announcement of our next CEO by the first half of 2025.

我們擁有優秀的候選人，包括內部和外部的。我們正在進行的對話非常鼓舞人心，讓我們能夠為公司找到最合適的首席執行官，並順利在 2025 年上半年宣布下一任首席執行官。

Now before answering your questions, and we hope there are many, we'd like to share with you this very special advertisement. That's number one spot on YouTube AdBlitz in 2025. And which has already had 110 million views, which is a Jeep advertisement.

現在，在回答您的問題之前（我們希望您有很多問題），我們想與您分享這個非常特別的廣告。這是 2025 年 YouTube AdBlitz 上的頭號位置。目前，該吉普廣告的觀看次數已達 1.1 億次。

The reason why we want to show this to you, not only is to convey as the, as I did at the beginning, how our organization is really there to try and win customers and for us to get back to growing and gaining market share. But it is also because we have been very intentional, very deliberate in making sure that we can provide freedom to choose for our customers.

我們之所以想向您展示這一點，不僅是因為要傳達（就像我在一開始所做的那樣）我們的組織如何真正地努力贏得客戶，以及如何讓我們重新成長並獲得市場份額。但這也是因為我們非常有意、非常謹慎地確保我們能夠為客戶提供選擇的自由。

And this is exactly what you'll see in this advertisement, but also we'll see the strength of our brands and particularly cheap which again has been nominated in '24 the most patriotic brand in the United States. Thank you.

這正是您將在這則廣告中看到的，但我們也將看到我們品牌的實力，尤其是價格低廉的品牌，它再次被提名為 24 年度美國最愛國品牌。謝謝。

(video playing)

（影片播放）

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

George Galliers, Goldman Sachs.

喬治‧加利爾斯，高盛。

Good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. John, you did allude to this in your closing comments, but I really wanted to just ask a question about the group. Obviously, Stellantis was formed during a different period when we seemed to be heading towards global convergence and powertrains with high levels of electrification and the risk presented by Chinese OEMs to global carmakers was also substantially lower.

下午好，感謝您回答我的問題。約翰，你確實在結束語中提到了這一點，但我真的想問一個關於這個小組的問題。顯然，Stellantis 成立於不同的時期，當時我們似乎正走向全球整合和高度電氣化的動力系統，中國原始設備製造商為全球汽車製造商帶來的風險也大大降低。

Obviously, the industry dynamics have changed. And therefore, the question I really had was operationally, does it still make sense to have a global auto company in a world which is seemingly increasingly geopolitically decoupled and where perhaps it doesn't make sense to be one of the largest car players -- but in fact, that may work against you in what is an increasingly dynamic industry.

顯然，產業動態已經發生了變化。因此，我真正想問的是，從營運角度來看，在一個地緣政治日益脫鉤的世界裡，擁有一家全球性汽車公司是否仍然有意義，而且成為最大的汽車公司之一可能沒有任何意義——但事實上，在日益活躍的行業中，這可能對你不利。

And perhaps related to this, if there was a clear case to create shareholder value through breaking up the organization? Is that something you would consider or explore. Thank you.

或許與此相關的是，是否有明確的理由透過拆分組織來創造股東價值？這是您會考慮或探索的事情嗎？謝謝。

George, that's a great question. And I do believe that what is actually happening is playing to our strengths. And the reason why we have been empowering the regions is exactly to make sure that we're able to create regional scale. And we believe that our regional scale in the largest markets in which we operate is actually a big strength. And a big strength in allowing us to be differentiated in terms of what our customers want, but also in terms of what the different regulations are.

喬治，這個問題問得非常好。我確實相信，目前所發生的事情正在發揮我們的優勢。我們一直賦能各地區的原因正是為了確保我們能夠創造區域規模。我們相信，我們在經營的最大市場中的區域規模實際上是一個巨大的優勢。並且，我們的一大優勢在於，我們不僅能夠根據客戶需求進行區分，還能根據不同的法規來區分。

Equally, if we look at different aspects of having global reach and without touching upon electrification, which has different velocities among the regions, but just on software, or on some of the features that we've been working on our products, those actually benefit from us being global. And if we look at the incumbent world or the insurgent world, a Toyota or a Tesla, they're actually gaining market share, and they are of global size and global reach. But I believe that in our case, where we have regional scale and global scale, we're actually very well equipped for the world to come.

同樣，如果我們從全球影響力的不同方面來看待問題，且不談電氣化，因為電氣化在各個地區有不同的發展速度，而只看軟體或我們一直在研究的某些產品功能，這些實際上受益於我們的全球化。如果我們看看現有的世界或新興的世界，豐田或特斯拉實際上正在獲得市場份額，而且它們具有全球規模和全球影響力。但我相信，就我們的情況而言，我們擁有區域規模和全球規模，我們實際上已經為未來的世界做好了充分的準備。

Great, thank you.

太好了，謝謝。

Thomas Besson, Kepler Cheuvreux.

湯瑪斯貝松、開普勒舍夫勒。

Thank you very much. I have a question to start, please, on the dynamic of the year. Clearly, growth has become again the key priority for the growth. But it seems that for the time being, it's more an H2 story -- could you confirm that? And could you confirm that absolute inventory levels may be going up, which I think is a understood by year-end, while maintaining data sales. I had the impression that eventually inventories were at an appropriate level.

非常感謝。我想問一個問題，關於今年的動態。顯然，成長再次成為成長的首要任務。但就目前而言，這更像是一個 H2 故事——您能證實這一點嗎？您能否確認絕對庫存水準可能會上升，我認為這在年底前就會明白，同時保持數據銷售。我的印像是庫存最終處於適當的水平。

And I have a follow-up question, which is linked to a timely topic with tariffs in the USMCA region that you've mentioned in your comments. Could you try to help us understanding what the impact would be on your financial outlook for you as much as for the industry if these stores were to be implemented? Thank you.

我有一個後續問題，與您在評論中提到的 USMCA 地區關稅這一及時主題有關。您能否嘗試幫助我們理解，如果開設這些商店，將對您的財務前景以及整個行業產生什麼影響？謝謝。

Yeah, those are two great questions. And -- on the tariffs, the discussions are ongoing. It's really premature to be able to express any view. We strongly believe that the real opportunity is really to try and close the loophole for 4 million cars that are sold in America that don't have any US content. And as conversations progress, and we're very aligned with the (inaudible) in those conversations and making sure that what was negotiation, what was negotiated by the first Trump administration to create USMC is actually respected and valued and eventually improved.

是的，這是兩個很好的問題。關於關稅的討論仍在進行中。現在表達任何觀點確實為時過早。我們堅信，真正的機會是嘗試堵住漏洞，讓在美國銷售的 400 萬輛汽車不包含任何美國成分。隨著對話的進展，我們非常認同這些對話中的（聽不清楚），並確保談判內容，即川普第一屆政府為創建美國海軍陸戰隊所談判的內容得到尊重和重視，並最終得到改善。

We are, of course, working in a very deliberate way in trying to understand what consequences this would have for us. So what I can reassure you is we're doing the work, we are prepared and have different scenarios in place. which of these scenarios will play out is premature for us to discuss today without having the knowledge.

當然，我們正在以非常謹慎的方式努力了解這會給我們帶來什麼後果。因此我可以向你們保證的是，我們正在進行工作，我們已經做好了準備，並且制定了不同的方案。在沒有相關知識的情況下，我們今天討論這些情景中哪一種會發生還為時過早。

I also think that '25 is a year where we need to get to our potential. We have had the first chapter of our history, which was very much linked to creating the synergies and to making our company and to making our company efficient. But we have not grown. And so '25 is a year on the back of product launches, 20 in '24, 10 in '25 as Doug was expressing that we are in the trajectory of making sure that we get back to growth and profitable growth. In terms of the dynamic H1, H2 -- why don't you take that, Doug?

我也認為 25 年是我們需要發揮潛力的一年。我們已經開啟了公司歷史的第一章，這一章與創造綜效、提高公司效率密切相關。但我們並沒有成長。因此，25 年是產品發布的一年，20 年是 20 個產品發布，25 年是 10 個產品發布，正如 Doug 所表達的，我們正處於確保恢復增長和盈利增長的軌道上。就動態 H1、H2 而言──為什麼不接受這一點呢，道格？

Yeah. So I think your question on inventory is a good one. When we think about the inventory dynamic, of course, we're always thinking about inventory relative to sales pace, right, because it's all kind of about managing two days supply. Now as we're launching a number of products this year that are going to fill in these kind of blank spaces in our product portfolio, if we look at first half, of course, we know in Europe, the smart cars are just a number of the sister cars are just entering production right now, and we'll be in the market in March. We talked a little bit about a few of those in terms of C3 aircraft, the Frontera, the Fiat Grande Panda.

是的。所以我認為你關於庫存的問題很好。當我們考慮庫存動態時，當然，我們總是考慮相對於銷售速度的庫存，對，因為這都與管理兩天的供應有關。現在，我們今年將推出一系列產品，填補我們產品組合中的這類空白，如果我們看一下上半年，當然，我們知道在歐洲，智能汽車只是剛剛投入生產的姊妹車型之一，我們將在三月份上市。我們稍微談論了其中的一些，例如 C3 飛機、Frontera、Fiat Grande Panda。

But we also have some STLA Med vehicles off the new STLA Med platform. As you know, we've launched a 3008, 5008, and the Grandland just very recently Opel launched that vehicle. But we also have the C5 Aircross coming later in the year. So I would expect to see absolute inventories ramp a little bit towards the end of the year as these vehicles come into the European market and the sales pace picks up, but I don't think we'll see significant increase even on an absolute level, but really, we'll be managing to a days supply perspective.

但我們也有一些基於新 STLA Med 平台的 STLA Med 車輛。如你所知，我們已經推出了 3008、5008，最近歐寶也推出了 Grandland。但我們今年稍後還會推出 C5 Aircross。因此，隨著這些車輛進入歐洲市場並且銷售速度加快，我預計絕對庫存將在年底略有增加，但我認為即使在絕對水平上也不會看到顯著的增長，但實際上，我們將設法滿足天數供應的觀點。

North America, kind of a similar story in many respects. We're going to be getting the new HD pickups here in the first quarter, which is very exciting because pretty much now all of our light-duty and heavy-duty lineup will be renewed after we get the new HDs out -- when we look at second half, of course, we're very excited about having the Cherokee replacement come into the market with our first HEV powertrain.

北美在許多方面都有著類似的情況。我們將在第一季推出新款 HD 皮卡，這非常令人興奮，因為現在我們所有的輕型和重型產品線都將在推出新款 HD 後得到更新——當然，當我們展望下半年時，我們非常高興切諾基的替代車型將搭載我們的第一款 HEV 動力系統進入市場。

And again, I would expect that we would see a little bit of pickup in absolute numbers of inventory, but again, keeping days supply on a very reasonable level.

我再次預計，我們會看到庫存絕對數量略有回升，但供應天數仍將保持在非常合理的水平。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Daniel Roeska, Bernstein Research.

羅斯卡（Daniel Roeska），伯恩斯坦研究公司。

Hi, good afternoon to all. Thanks for taking my questions. I'm focusing on the U.S. a bit more, you've lost about 5% of market share in the US since 2019. And if I look at your production plans for '25, it looks like you want to attempt to recapture about 3% to 4% of market share spread between H1 and H2. Now that's higher than any OEM has ever managed in the US.

大家下午好。感謝您回答我的問題。我更關注美國市場，自 2019 年以來，你們在美國失去了約 5% 的市佔率。如果我看一下您 25 年的生產計劃，看起來您想嘗試重新奪回 H1 和 H2 之間約 3% 到 4% 的市場份額。這比美國任何一家 OEM 廠商的業績都要高。

I think the best was kind of 2% unlike here, someone in the 1990s and 2000s. So my question, other than the new models you're putting on, which additional measures are on the table that your executive team can take to kind of achieve that really aggressive market share gain in a market that's probably essentially flat in the US this year?

我認為最好的是 2%，與 20 世紀 90 年代和 21 世紀初的情況不同。所以我的問題是，除了您正在推出的新車型之外，您的管理團隊還可以採取哪些額外措施，以在今年美國市場基本持平的情況下實現真正積極的市場份額增長？

That's not what we're trying to achieve. So I don't know how you got to that but that's definitely not what we're expecting to achieve. We believe that the combination of great product, we believe that the combination of great trust with our dealers, who are our partners. We believe the combination of great spending in marketing. And we believe the strength of our organization is what really is giving us traction.

這並不是我們想要達到的目標。所以我不知道你是怎麼做到這一點的，但這絕對不是我們期望實現的。我們相信，優質的產品與優質的合作夥伴，以及與經銷商之間的良好信任相結合，是實現這一目標的關鍵。我們相信在行銷方面投入大量資金的結合。我們相信，我們組織的實力才是真正給予我們動力的因素。

And if we look January, it's positive on the client side. We still need to do work on fleets. But we're definitely not in the realm of what you're talking about. And by the way, if that would ever happen, '25 would be extraordinary as the year. So as Doug mentioned to you, we're definitely very reasonable in our achievements for 2025.

如果我們看一下一月份的情況，客戶端的情況是正面的。我們仍需要進行艦隊方面的工作。但我們絕對不屬於您所談論的範疇。順便說一句，如果這種情況真的發生，那麼 25 年將會是一個不平凡的年份。正如道格向您提到的那樣，我們在 2025 年取得的成就絕對是非常合理的。

That's very good to hear. So if the IHS s are listening, maybe they can take a note. But if you think about the production ramp-up you're planning throughout the year, how set in stone is that for you in the second half, depending on the market dynamics, how would you characterize your willingness to let's say, do more discounts or be a little bit more caution on ramping up production in the second half?

聽到這個消息真是太好了。因此，如果 IHS 正在監聽，也許他們可以記下來。但是，如果您考慮一下您計劃全年提高產量，那麼下半年的產量提高計劃對您來說有多大把握呢？根據市場動態，您會如何描述您的意願，比如說，在下半年加大產量時提供更多折扣還是更加謹慎？

Yeah. Maybe I can address that. Of course, our production planning and really our -- what we refer to as our current flow is something that we look at on a very regular basis to see how the sales pace is going and we oftentimes adjust production levels up or down depending on how market dynamics develop over time.

是的。也許我可以解決這個問題。當然，我們的生產計劃以及我們所說的當前流程是我們定期查看的，以了解銷售速度如何，我們經常根據市場動態隨時間的發展來上調或下調生產水平。

Now that being said, when we look at the price repositioning that we've done in the US market in the second half. We have a much more competitive pricing position right now than we did in the first half as well as, of course, the new products that are coming into the market.

話雖如此，當我們看看下半年我們在美國市場進行的價格重新定位時。與上半年相比，我們現在的定價更具競爭力，當然，還有進入市場的新產品。

So we are looking to, of course, grow share. We also are getting more active in terms of defending our share of voice. And so I think the ads you saw today, particularly the great jeep ad are just a sign of some of the work that we're going to be doing on the marketing side. So it's a combination of efforts that we believe will grow back some market share, but not as aggressively as some of the numbers that you recorded.

因此，我們當然希望擴大市場佔有率。我們在捍衛自己的聲音方面也變得更加積極。所以我認為您今天看到的廣告，特別是精彩的吉普車廣告，只是我們將在行銷方面開展的一些工作的標誌。因此，我們相信透過多種努力可以恢復部分市場份額，但恢復速度不會像您記錄的一些數字那麼快。

But thank you for your confidence with those numbers, by the way.

不過，順便說一句，感謝您對這些數字的信心。

All the best. Thanks.

一切順利。謝謝。

Thanks, Daniel

謝謝，丹尼爾

Patrick Hummel, UBS.

瑞銀集團的派崔克‧胡梅爾（Patrick Hummel）。

Yeah, thanks. Hi everybody. My first question goes to Doug, please. We talked about your volume expectations for 2025 and the impact of the new model launches. Can you just elaborate a little bit on the other key building blocks in the AOI bridge? What about pricing? What about costs? Can you share your expectations, please?

是的，謝謝。大家好。我的第一個問題是問 Doug 的。我們討論了您對 2025 年的銷售預期以及新車型發布的影響。您能否稍微詳細說明一下 AOI 橋中的其他關鍵建置模組？定價怎麼樣？那麼成本如何呢？能分享一下您的期望嗎？

And my second question goes to John, please. You said this year has to be the year of growth, but how long can you give the company, how long do you give the company to get fully back on track, show the full potential again? And what is that full potential in terms of AOI margin and free cash flow? Is that still double-digit AOI margin? Is it still EUR10 billion free cash flow?

我的第二個問題是問約翰的。您說今年必須是成長之年，但是您能給公司多長時間，給公司多長時間來完全回到正軌，再次展現全部潛力？那麼，就 AOI 利潤率和自由現金流而言，其全部潛力是什麼？這仍然是兩位數的 AOI 利潤嗎？它仍然是100億歐元的自由現金流嗎？

What is it that you think this company should be capable of delivering -- and in that context, do you think the company has to invest more? Has the company underinvested under Carlos leadership or do you think that's not an issue. Thank you.

您認為這家公司應該能夠提供什麼？在這種情況下，您認為公司是否需要投入更多資金？在卡洛斯的領導下，公司是否投資不足，或者您認為這不是問題。謝謝。

I will start out. Okay. So a couple of comments on the AOI and AOI development. Look, I think when we look at North America, for example, I think we'll be looking to run at kind of low single digit during the first half. It's very much will be more back half where we can, I think, achieve margins in kind of the mid-to-high single-digit range.

我先出發了。好的。因此，我對 AOI 和 AOI 開發有幾點評論。看看，我認為當我們看北美時，例如，我認為我們將在上半年看到較低的個位數成長。我認為，在後半段，我們更有可能實現中高個位數的利潤率。

On -- in large Europe, of course, I think we have significant opportunities to improve over the kind of 4.1% we ran for the full year of 2024. Now I know you specifically asked about pricing and costs. So let me try and just kind of address those two topics a little bit. I think it seems to be that the market expectations for North America are generally in the kind of 1% to 2% headwind on pricing.

當然，在歐洲，我認為我們有很大機會提高 2024 年全年 4.1% 的成長率。現在我知道您特別詢問的是價格和成本。因此，讓我試著稍微討論一下這兩個主題。我認為市場對北美的預期似乎總體上是定價方面出現 1% 到 2% 的逆風。

When I think about Stellantis specifically, we have done a significant recalibration in North America during the second half of 2024. We're in a much more competitive place right now. And so while I don't think we're going to see significant adjustments during the first half from that point. Of course, the year-over-year comparison when we look at the really, really strong pricing we had in the market in early 2024 is going to make for a year-over-year comparison that probably will reflect that change, right?

當我具體考慮 Stellantis 時，我們在 2024 年下半年對北美進行了重大的重新調整。我們現在的競爭更加激烈了。因此，我認為從那時起我們不會在上半年看到重大調整。當然，當我們觀察 2024 年初市場上非常非常強勁的定價時，同比比較可能會反映出這種變化，對嗎？

But I see really the second half maybe where we can abate some of those pricing headwinds as we bring in some very exciting new products. And really kind of I think when we look at Europe, Europe, of course, stacks up as a very, very competitive environment, as you know. But again, because we have so much new product in our core segments. So in the B segment and in the C segment, I think a lot of that new product will be a mitigating factor against some of those competitive headwinds. So hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color.

但我確實看到，隨著我們推出一些非常令人興奮的新產品，下半年或許可以減輕一些定價阻力。我確實認為，當我們看歐洲時，歐洲當然是一個非常非常具有競爭力的環境，正如你所知。但同樣，因為我們的核心領域有太多新產品。因此，在 B 類和 C 類市場，我認為許多新產品將成為緩解競爭不利因素的因素。希望這能帶給你一些啟發。

Now let me just try to address costs again quickly. I think we have a significant opportunities on cost in a couple of different areas. When we look at direct material costs, of course, we do see some increases in steel and aluminum prices. We have, I think, very good contracts in terms of how those prices step up. I don't think we have a huge amount of exposure there.

現在讓我再次嘗試快速討論一下成本問題。我認為我們在幾個不同領域擁有巨大的成本機會。當我們查看直接材料成本時，我們當然會看到鋼鐵和鋁價格上漲。我認為，就價格上漲方式而​​言，我們簽訂了非常好的合約。我認為我們在那裡的曝光度並不高。

On the components and raw materials for Bev, -- as you know, this year, we've seen prices come down and help us quite a bit on the raw material side there. When I think about the big opportunities for us on the cost side, frankly, it's in looking at the TPC of our vehicles. We really have the opportunity for some good technical improvements on TPC, but I think can really help us on the cost side and we are hard at work at that. So I think that's the big opportunity for us in this coming year.

關於 Bev 的零件和原材料——正如您所知，今年價格有所下降，這對我們在原材料方面有很大幫助。坦白說，當我考慮我們在成本方面的巨大機會時，就是看我們車輛的 TPC。我們確實有機會在 TPC 上進行一些很好的技術改進，但我認為這才能真正幫助我們降低成本，而且我們正在為此努力。所以我認為這對我們來說是來年的巨大機會。

Just to add to Doug's comments. '25 is a year where we need to get back to profitable growth. We need to get back to more profits. We need to get back to generating free cash flow. And that's really what we're focusing on.

只是想補充一下 Doug 的評論。 25 年是我們需要恢復獲利成長的一年。我們需要獲得更多的利潤。我們需要重新產生自由現金流。這確實也是我們關注的重點。

As we deliver that, this is an incredible launch pad for next CEO to really make sure that the company, with the great people that are in the company reach the full potential of Stellantis.

當我們實現這一目標時，這對下一任執行長來說是一個令人難以置信的啟動平台，可以真正確保公司和公司中的優秀人才充分發揮 Stellantis 的潛力。

Okay, thank you very much.

好的，非常感謝。

Jose Asumendi, JPMorgan.

摩根大通的 Jose Asumendi。

Thank you very much, Jose from JPMorgan. A couple of questions, please. So maybe the first one, I mean, you've been very involved with the management team in the US delivering the turnaround plan and the plan we're going to see in 2025. So as you look strategically at the company, are there any elements you have decided to change in terms of how the company operates, how the company takes the decisions or even on the financial planning and volume and on the inventory side.

非常感謝摩根大通的 Jose。請問幾個問題。所以也許是第一個，我的意思是，你一直積極參與美國管理團隊制定的扭虧為盈計畫以及我們將在 2025 年看到的計畫。因此，當您從策略角度審視公司時，您是否決定改變公司的營運方式、決策方式，甚至財務規劃、產量和庫存方面的某些要素？

And let me also take the chance to thank you for that step to improve the disclosure as we go into 2026 with a quarterly reporting? Second question, please, would be for Doug, if you could just give us a bit more details with regards to the financial planning for Europe. What are the key drivers in terms of volume pricing and how should we look at the margin in first half versus second half? Thank you.

我也想藉此機會感謝您在 2026 年進行季度報告時採取的改進披露的措施？第二個問題是問道格的，您能否提供我們更多有關歐洲財務規劃的細節。批量定價方面的主要驅動因素是什麼？我們該如何看待上半年和下半年的利潤率？謝謝。

Thank you, Jose. Building Trust is very much listening and we have listened to you, and that's very much what Doug and Ed have been doing and trying to make sure that as we progress in '26, we do have a quarterly cadence. The organization is now really more regionally empowered. And that's the biggest shift that we've had.

謝謝你，何塞。建立信任很大程度上在於傾聽，我們也聽取了你們的意見，這也是道格和艾德一直在做的事情，他們試圖確保隨著我們在 26 年取得進展，我們確實有一個季度節奏。該組織現在確實擁有了更多的區域權力。這是我們經歷的最大轉變。

And I strongly believe as the Board believes that once we've really put the company together and we've achieved the synergies, now in order for us to grow, we need to be closer to the customer, and we need to be closer when the problems happen. And so having more empowerment within our regions is really reflective of how the company is now operating and will operate in the future with our next CEO.

我和董事會一樣堅信，一旦我們真正整合了公司並實現了協同效應，那麼為了發展，我們就需要更加貼近客戶，當問題出現時，我們也需要更加貼近客戶。因此，在我們的各個地區擁有更多的權力實際上反映了公司現在的運作方式以及未來在下一任執行長領導下的運作方式。

We also are very impressed by our partnership with Leapmotor and are very confident about what we can do in China with them and what we can do outside of China with them. So probably that would be in terms of what we have more certainty from when we started as Stellantis in '21, where we had no China, as you might recall, presence to one that is real, and which we really are looking forward to build on.

與零跑車的合作也給我們留下了深刻的印象，我們對在中國和海外合作充滿信心。所以，這可能就我們更確定的事情而言，從 2021 年我們以 Stellantis 的名義成立時起，那時我們還沒有中國業務，正如您可能記得的，現在我們在中國有了真實的業務，我們真正期待著在此基礎上繼續發展。

Maybe I can address the second half of your second question, Jose. And by the way, it's nice to hear from you. On your second question, I think you were specifically asking about kind of the financial planning and dynamics for the European market. And again, I would say we likely will see a much stronger second half in Europe than first half.

也許我可以回答你的第二個問題的後半部分，何塞。順便說一句，很高興收到您的來信。關於您的第二個問題，我認為您具體詢問的是歐洲市場的財務規劃和動態。我再次強調，我們可能會看到歐洲下半年的表現比上半年更強。

And specifically, some of the vehicles that we were just talking about in terms of the sister cars on the smart card platform now that we've launched kind of the first European smart car in the C3 when we now are looking to launch the C3 Aircross and all the other vehicles coming off of Smart Car, really those are just going into production right now.

具體來說，我們剛才談到的智慧卡平台上的姊妹車就是 C3，我們已經推出了第一款歐洲智慧車，現在我們正考慮推出 C3 Aircross，而所有其他智慧車的車型，實際上，它們現在都剛剛投入生產。

So when they go into sales in March, we won't have a full half of most of those vehicles. And many of the STLA Mid STLA cars, the STLA cars to the 3008 and the 5008 those also will not come into the market until kind of second half.

因此，當它們在三月開始銷售時，我們還沒有拿到其中大部分車輛的一半。而且許多 STLA Mid STLA 車型、STLA 3008 和 5008 車型也要到下半年才會上市。

So again, we'll really have kind of the full benefit of all those new vehicles much more in the second half than we will in the first half. And that's why the dynamic this year I think, is going to be stronger and much more weighted towards second half, both in AOI and probably even more extreme from a cash perspective.

因此，與上半年相比，我們在下半年將更能享受這些新車帶來的全部好處。這就是為什麼我認為今年的動態將會更加強勁，並且更傾向於下半年，無論是在 AOI 方面，還是從現金角度來看甚至可能更加極端。

Thank you very much.

非常感謝。

Philippe Houchois, Jefferies.

菲利普‧霍喬斯 (Philippe Houchois)，傑富瑞 (Jefferies)。

Yes, thank you very much and good afternoon. My question is going back on market share and introduced capacity. I mean on the public numbers, Stellantis since creation has lost 5 points of share in Europe and 5 points of share in North America and Europe is worse because the market has fallen.

是的，非常感謝，下午好。我的問題是關於市場佔有率和引進產能。我的意思是，從公開數據來看，自成立以來，Stellantis 在歐洲的市佔率已經下降了 5 個百分點，在北美的市佔率也下降了 5 個百分點，而且由於市場下滑，歐洲的情況更糟。

And I'm trying to think as you rebuild share to what extent -- how do you balance the cost of rebuilding share, which I appreciate this product, but is also positioning and therefore, pricing? And how much do you take in account the cost of reducing the excess capacity that was inherited in some extent in Europe and created in the US because of the loss of market share because there's to be a cost, if it's not immediately two or three years down the road to resize the capacity.

我試著思考，當你重建份額時，你如何平衡重建份額的成本，我很欣賞這個產品，但也是定位，因此，定價？您認為減少過剩產能的成本有多少？這種產能過剩是歐洲在某種程度上繼承下來的，也是美國因市佔率損失而產生的，如果不在兩三年後立即調整產能，必然會產生成本。

And so I'm trying to give a sense of how you think about those issues of balancing those two parts of the cost base.

因此，我想讓您了解您如何看待平衡成本基礎的這兩個部分的問題。

Philippe, that's a really pertinent question. And what we really want to address in '25 is our ability of really gaining market share, which is a function of products. We have between '24 and '25, 30 new products that we're launching, and it's a function of being more focused on that part, which is why we're being more we're empowering more the regions. We're being closer to the customers, and we are investing more in marketing. That's really today the focus.

菲利普，這是一個非常中肯的問題。我們真正想要在 25 年解決的是我們真正獲得市場份額的能力，這是產品的功能。我們在 2024 年至 2025 年期間推出了 30 款新產品，這是為了更專注於這一部分，這也是我們更加賦能各個地區的原因。我們更貼近客戶，並且在行銷方面投入更多。這才是今天的真正重點。

As we sell more, we use more of our plants. And so the way you should think about this is really not that selling more is going to cost us more in terms of pricing because, as Doug mentioned, we have aligned ourselves in terms of pricing. It's not really going to cost us more because we have invested in the products so it's really a question of making sure that our great products are going to reach the customers. And that's what we're focused on. So if you want to car Philippe, you know who to rank.

隨著我們銷售量的增加，我們使用的植物也越來越多。因此，您應該這樣想：銷售量增加並不意味著定價成本增加，因為正如 Doug 所提到的，我們在定價方面已經達成一致。這實際上不會花費我們更多，因為我們已經在產品上進行了投資，所以真正的問題是確保我們的優質產品能夠到達客戶手中。這正是我們所關注的。因此，如果您想了解菲利普 (Philippe)，您就知道該為誰排名了。

But at some point, you will have to address the capacity? Or do you think you can roll back into using that capacity on your own or maybe through using working for Leapmotor or try to think for how do we resolve that issue of that excess capacity?

但在某些時候，你必須解決容量問題？或者您認為您可以自己重新利用這些產能，或透過為零跑車工作，或嘗試思考如何解決產能過剩的問題？

Well, we start selling more cars. That's a good starting point.

好吧，我們開始銷售更多的汽車。這是一個很好的起點。

Right. Now on that topic, if I can follow up. We -- all the investors we speak to, we look at the data and market share, and we've done -- you've done a great job on reducing inventory. That's fantastic in the US. The retail market is pretty ugly still.

正確的。現在回到這個主題，如果我可以跟進的話。我們——與我們交談過的所有投資者，我們都查看了數據和市場份額，而且我們已經——你們在減少庫存方面做得很好。這在美國真是太棒了。零售市場情勢依然不容樂觀。

In Europe too.

在歐洲也是如此。

Yeah, we don't see it as much, but I appreciate it's the case, yeah. But the retail market share that we see in Europe and in the US is still pretty ugly. And I'm just trying to think is how long does it take? I'm sure you, as an organization, watching your dealers to reposition the product to reprice the incentives, et cetera.

是的，我們不太常見到這種情況，但我很欣賞這種情況，是的。但我們在歐洲和美國看到的零售市佔率仍然相當糟糕。我只是想知道這需要多長時間？我確信，作為一個組織，您正在觀察您的經銷商，以重新定位產品、重新定價激勵措施等等。

When do you think we start to see some good news on the retail share. So that that's critical to build the confidence in the market that fine you've resized, but now from here to grow (multiple speakers) months? Is it three months?

您認為我們什麼時候會開始看到零售股方面的好消息。因此，這對於建立市場信心至關重要，您已經調整了規模，但是從現在開始需要成長（多個發言者）幾個月？是三個月嗎？

We're seeing good signs. We're seeing that -- as I mentioned in the US, January on the retail side was good. We're seeing in Europe in key markets like Italy or France progress. We -- as market shares, losers, you have market share gainers. So in some ways, this is quite quick how the rebalancing happens.

我們看到了好的跡象。我們看到—正如我在美國提到的，一月零售業表現良好。我們看到歐洲主要市場如義大利和法國正在取得進展。我們——作為市場佔有率的失敗者，你們是市場佔有率的贏家。因此從某種程度上來說，重新平衡的過程相當快。

We're very confident by our products. We're very confident by the ability of our organization to be close to the customer. and we're very confident in our dealers. And I think that's really what we need to say we need to see it work.

我們對我們的產品非常有信心。我們對我們的組織貼近客戶的能力非常有信心。我們對我們的經銷商非常有信心。我認為這正是我們需要說的，我們需要看到它發揮作用。

Yeah. Maybe I can just add a couple of comments. When you look at -- as John mentioned, it is very early in the year, of course, we really just have the results for January. We certainly have made more progress in January in Europe than we have in the US. And of course, our plans as we roll out more product and fill in these gaps in our product lineup, certainly is to utilize those new exciting models to gain on market share.

是的。也許我可以添加一些評論。當你看到——正如約翰所提到的，現在是年初，當然，我們實際上只得到了一月份的結果。我們一月在歐洲的進展肯定比在美國取得的進展更大。當然，隨著我們推出更多產品並填補產品線中的這些空白，我們的計劃肯定是利用這些令人興奮的新車型來獲得市場份額。

But we have returned to the market in a bigger way with our share of voice and some of our marketing support and advertising. We are building back the relationship, I would say, with our dealers in the United States, which is very important. I spent some time with our dealers down at the recent NADA conference. And I think we're very much on the right track.

但我們憑藉自己的話語權以及部分行銷支援和廣告，以更大的方式重返市場。我想說，我們正在與美國經銷商重建關係，這非常重要。在最近的 NADA 會議上，我與我們的經銷商一起度過了一段時間。我認為我們正走在正確的道路上。

And we're starting to see in terms of our order banks, we're starting to see more orders coming in the dealers expressing more confidence. So these are all, I would say, positive signs, but I want to be cautious about the fact that we're still very, very early in the year. And frankly, we need to execute. That is clearly the focus. I think the opportunity is there for us this year, but we have got to do a great job of execution.

從我們的訂單庫來看，我們開始看到經銷商收到的訂單越來越多，這顯示出了更大的信心。所以我想說，這些都是正面的訊號，但我要謹慎，因為我們今年還處於非常早期的階段。坦白說，我們需要執行。這顯然是重點。我認為今年我們有機會，但我們必須出色地執行。

Yeah. And I think Doug is right in making sure that we have the right prudence and humility in this. But we feel confident about the products and our people. Having said that, we need to see how the year develops.

是的。我認為道格確保我們在這件事上保持適當的謹慎和謙遜是正確的。但我們對產品和員工充滿信心。話雖如此，我們還是需要觀察今年的情況如何發展。

Great, thank you both.

太好了，謝謝你們兩位。

Tim Rokossa, Deutsche Bank.

德意志銀行的提姆·羅科薩。

Yeah, thank you very much, Tim from Deutsche Bank. I have two questions, please, as well. The first one, Doug, probably to you on adjustments. It's a pretty big number again that we've seen in H2. Can we get some details on the specifically EUR1.2 billion impairment that you had Maserati and then also when we think about this, obviously, adjustments purpose to the capital market that is to give us a better feeling for the underlying profitability.

是的，非常感謝德意志銀行的提姆。我也有兩個問題。第一個問題，道格，可能要向你提出一些調整。這是我們在第二季度看到的一個相當大的數字。我們能否獲得有關瑪莎拉蒂 12 億歐元減損的具體細節，然後當我們考慮這一點時，顯然，調整資本市場的目的是讓我們更了解潛在的獲利能力。

But if those adjustments continue to be as big as they were now for a while, for a very long time, it kind of gets a bit absorbed because the underlying profitability and the actual profitability and the cash and the earnings to be distributed. How should we think about that number going forward?

但如果這些調整在一段時間內繼續像現在這樣大，那麼在很長一段時間內，它就會被吸收，因為潛在的盈利能力和實際盈利能力以及現金和要分配的收益。我們以後該如何看待這個數字？

And then secondly, not sure if to you, John or Doug as well. John, you said, obviously, Carlos has done a lot of really good stuff for this company. He's also been extremely efficient on the cost side, especially when we think about things like R&D. Now we're seeing some other OEMs stretching out their investment fee targets because they have to reinvest into ICE. Do you feel the R&D levels of this business are sufficient? Do you think you need to catch up on certain elements? Is there any change in trend? Thank you very much.

其次，我不確定你、約翰或道格是否也這麼認為。約翰，你說過，顯然卡洛斯為這家公司做了很多非常好的事情。他在成本方面也非常高效，尤其是在考慮研發等方面。現在我們看到一些其他 OEM 延長了他們的投資費用目標，因為他們必須重新投資 ICE。您覺得該企業的研發水準夠嗎？您認為您需要趕上某些元素嗎？趨勢有變化嗎？非常感謝。

Okay. Maybe I can start out. So you'd asked about the unusuals and you're certainly right, Tim. I mean this year, we had a fairly high level of onetime unusual items. And maybe I can just walk through those and give you some color.

好的。也許我可以開始。所以你問到了不尋常的事情，你當然是對的，提姆。我的意思是，今年，我們的一次性不尋常物品數量相當高。也許我可以簡單介紹一下這些內容並給你一些說明。

One, we had EUR1.6 billion of restructuring charges related to workforce reductions, primarily in Europe and North America. A lot of those decisions, frankly, were made last year and are playing out from a cash perspective as we move forward. Much of the cash related to that, we had a fairly large cash outflow related to that restructuring in the second half of 2024, but I don't see these large workforce reductions continuing going forward.

首先，我們有16億歐元的重組費用與裁員有關，主要在歐洲和北美。坦白說，很多決定都是去年做出的，隨著我們前進，從現金角度來看，這些決定正在發揮作用。與此相關的大部分現金，我們在 2024 年下半年出現了與重組相關的相當大的現金流出，但我認為這種大規模裁員不會繼續下去。

We will, of course, continue to be frugal and efficient, but I think the size of the reductions will come down. When we look at the second large adjustment there, we had EUR800 million related to the expansion of the Takata airbag recall campaign. I believe this is the last piece of that, and so that EUR800 million should finish off.

當然，我們將繼續節儉高效，但我認為減排規模將會縮小。當我們查看第二次大規模調整時，我們有 8 億歐元與擴大高田安全氣囊召回活動有關。我相信這是最後一部分，8 億歐元應該完成了。

So again, not something I would expect to recur going forward. In terms of the -- the other two non-cash items that we had, first, there was a EUR1.8 billion in write-downs of capitalized platforms and goodwill intangibles for Maserati.

所以，我再一次不希望這樣的事情在未來再次發生。就我們的另外兩個非現金項目而言，首先，瑪莎拉蒂的資本化平台和商譽無形資產減損 18 億歐元。

I believe you were talking about the EUR1.2 billion piece of that, which is the non-goodwill piece of it. But certainly, as we look at the pace of our activity in Maserati, we have now and have to recognize that the dynamics in that business, particularly in the Chinese market as kind of our expectations in terms of how quickly that luxury market would transition to electrification. Those things have been adjusted. And along with that, we have adjusted the financials to reflect that outlook.

我相信您談論的是其中的 12 億歐元部分，即非商譽部分。但當然，當我們審視瑪莎拉蒂的業務節奏時，我們現在必須認識到該業務的動態，特別是中國市場的動態，這是我們對奢侈品市場向電氣化轉型速度的預期。這些事情已經調整了。同時，我們也調整了財務狀況以反映這一前景。

And then, of course, we have a EUR600 million provision related to onetime service contracts. Those are service contracts that actually were entered into even before the merger. So -- we had to take a look at those service contracts as they roll forward and the expectation is that they will be less profitable than we originally anticipated.

當然，我們還有 6 億歐元與一次性服務合約相關的準備金。這些服務合約實際上在合併之前就已簽訂。因此，我們必須對這些服務合約的執行情況進行審查，預計它們的利潤將低於我們最初的預期。

But again, these are all things that I would not expect to continue going forward. In addition, I will mention that it was also in a below-the-line adjustment where we had EUR2.3 billion tax benefit due to the recognition of a deferred tax asset in Brazil.

但話說回來，這些都是我不希望繼續下去的事。此外，我要提到的是，這也是一項線下調整，由於在巴西確認了一項遞延稅項資產，我們獲得了 23 億歐元的稅收優惠。

So that was actually a positive one-timer. But hopefully, that gives you the detail you need, but happy to follow up off-line with you, Tim.

所以這其實是一次積極的一次性行動。但希望這能為您提供所需的詳細信息，但很高興與您進行線下跟進，蒂姆。

Tim, we have invested in the last four years and the result of those investments are the products that we've launched in '24 and the ones we'll be launching this year. I think what is very clear going back to what we said about the freedom to choose for our customers and also a regulatory context, which is changing is really for us to be flexible, and we have invested in flexibility with our multi-energy platforms.

提姆，我們在過去四年中進行了投資，這些投資的成果就是我們在 2024 年推出的產品以及我們今年將要推出的產品。我認為，回到我們所說的為客戶提供選擇的自由以及監管環境的變化，這一點非常清楚，這實際上是為了讓我們變得靈活，而且我們已經在多能源平台的靈活性方面進行了投資。

So one of the things that we have actually been doing is investing in different powertrains abilities for hybrids and combustions, which actually is a way in which we can cover a larger part of the market. And again, by covering a larger part of the market, we will be able to give customers more choice. And that's where we have been thoughtful in directing CapEx in '25.

因此，我們實際上一直在做的事情之一就是投資混合動力和內燃機的不同動力系統能力，這實際上是我們覆蓋更大市場份額的一種方式。而且，透過覆蓋更大的市場，我們將能夠為客戶提供更多選擇。這就是我們在指導 25 年資本支出時深思熟慮的地方。

We strongly believe that the level of investments that we're doing are sufficient for the company that's Stellantis

我們堅信，我們目前的投資水準足以支撐 Stellantis 公司

Thank you very much for those details.

非常感謝您提供這些詳細資訊。

Thanks, Jim.

謝謝，吉姆。

Stuart Pearson, BNP Paribas.

法國巴黎銀行的史都華‧皮爾森。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Thank you. I'll try, maybe 1.5. So quickly, just for Doug, on the cash flow side. Just to understand if you're committing to being free cash flow positive, excluding working capital coming in? Just trying to think how we should think about that when you get to a true level of cash generation. I'm going to link to that as well as just on the Tesla pooling deal.

謝謝。我會嘗試，也許是 1.5。那麼，對於 Doug 來說，在現金流方面，我們來看看。只是想了解您是否致力於實現自由現金流為正（不包括營運資金流入）？只是想想想，當你達到真正的現金產生水準時，我們應該如何看待這個問題。我將連結到該內容以及特斯拉共享交易。

Just if you can help us understand the cash impact of that timing of that. Is that an option or is that something that you're committed to paying them despite what happens or doesn't happen on March 5. And then my half a question just finished was maybe for John to finish just on the CEO search. Because we're all left here guessing.

如果您能幫助我們了解那個時間點的現金影響就好了。這是一個選擇嗎？或者說，無論 3 月 5 日發生什麼或不發生什麼，你都承諾向他們支付費用。然後我剛剛問的那個問題可能是讓約翰回答關於 CEO 搜尋的問題。因為我們都在這裡猜測。

And I noticed you talked about spending together software and engineering. So what kind of qualities and experience are you looking for in the next CEO? Would it be fair to assume you're hunting around Silicon Valley as much as Michigan maybe? Is it or am I thinking of the wrong way there. So just wondering what kind of experience you're looking for, for that CEO? Thank you.

我注意到您談到了軟體和工程的共同投入。那麼您希望下一任執行長具備什麼樣的品質和經驗呢？是否可以公平地假設你在矽谷的狩獵活動和在密西根的狩獵活動一樣多？是這樣嗎？還是我想錯了？所以我想知道您希望這位 CEO 擁有什麼樣的經驗？謝謝。

All right. So Stuart, all great questions. And of course, questions about my favorite topic, cash. So look, when we look at the cash dynamic, just to answer your question directly, yes, we're expecting significant positive free cash flow excluding change in working capital. Now that being said, I don't think we're going to see a huge change in working capital.

好的。斯圖爾特，這些都是很棒的問題。當然，還有一些關於我最喜歡的話題──現金的問題。因此，當我們查看現金動態時，直接回答您的問題，是的，我們預計不包括營運資本變化在內的自由現金流將大幅增加。話雖如此，我認為我們不會看到營運資金發生巨大的變化。

We saw working capital primarily stabilized in the second half of last year of 2024. And I think we'll see relative stability in working capital this year. But yes, we are committed to positive free cash flow, excluding working capital. On credit pooling, as you picked up on, we have entered a pool that is public. Knowledge in Europe.

我們看到營運資本在 2024 年下半年基本穩定。我認為今年營運資金將相對穩定。但是的，我們致力於實現正的自由現金流，不包括營運資金。關於信用池，正如您所說，我們已經進入了一個公共池。歐洲的知識。

And as you noted, Tesla is in that poll also, please note that our partner Leapmotor, is in that pool, which will allow us via the pooling to take advantage of the credits that we're hoping to generate in Europe there through the significant sales effort, and we're expecting a pretty big ramp in Leapmotor sales this coming year.

正如您所說，特斯拉也在其中，請注意，我們的合作夥伴零跑汽車也在這個聯盟中，這樣我們就可以透過聯盟利用我們希望透過在歐洲大力銷售而獲得的積分，我們預計零跑車的銷量明年將大幅增長。

Of course, the details of those pooling relationships and the contracts are all private. But in terms of the cash flow, just to give you some feeling, the cash flow typically is after the pools -- after the credits are created and confirmed, which typically is in the year after the activity.

當然，這些池化關係和合約的細節都是保密的。但就現金流而言，只是為了讓您有點感覺，現金流通常是在資金池之後 - 在創建和確認信用之後，通常是在活動後的一年。

So just to give you -- I think your question was specifically on cash flow. And I think the second question is all yours.

所以只是為了給你——我認為你的問題是關於現金流的。我想第二個問題也是你提出的。

I mean, that's a great way to end this call. And first of all, thank you all for being here and for your questions. We had a very good Board and the search committee reported on excellent candidates that we have, both internally and externally and the conversations that we're having are very much in trying to understand leadership abilities and cultural dexterity because Stellantis, as we've discussed, is strong because it's present in the different regions.

我的意思是，這是結束這通通話的好方法。首先，感謝大家的到來與提問。我們有一個非常優秀的董事會，搜尋委員會報告了我們擁有的優秀候選人，包括內部和外部的候選人，我們正在進行的對話主要是試圖了解領導能力和文化靈活性，因為正如我們所討論的，Stellantis 之所以強大，是因為它遍布不同的地區。

We also need a leader that understands capital, a leader that understands technology and a leader that understands how to work in a unified way with our organization and our different stakeholders. And as I mentioned earlier, we're very confident that we'll be able to appoint the best possible CEO for Stellantis in the first half of '25. Thank you all for your support.

我們還需要一位了解資本的領導者、一位了解技術的領導者以及一位了解如何與我們的組織和不同利益相關者統一合作的領導者。正如我之前提到的，我們非常有信心能夠在 2025 年上半年為 Stellantis 任命最優秀的執行長。感謝大家的支持。

Thank you.

謝謝。