Skyward Specialty Insurance Group Inc (SKWD) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Q3 2025 Skyward Specialty Earnings Conference call [Operator Instructions] I would now like to turn the conference over to your speaker for today, Kevin Reed. Please go ahead.

您好，感謝您的耐心等待。歡迎參加 Skyward Specialty 2025 年第三季財報電話會議 [操作員說明] 現在我將把會議交給今天的發言人 Kevin Reed。請繼續。

Thank you, Lisa. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Today, I am joined by Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Andrew Robinson and Chief Financial Officer Mark Housel.

謝謝你，麗莎。各位下午好，歡迎參加我們2025年第三季財報電話會議。今天，與我一同出席的有董事長兼執行長安德魯·羅賓遜和財務長馬克·豪塞爾。

We will begin the call today with our prepared remarks, and then we will open the lines for questions. Our comments today may include forward-looking statements, which by their nature involve a number of risk factors and uncertainties which may affect future financial performance.

今天，我們將首先發表準備好的講話，然後開放提問環節。我們今天的評論可能包含前瞻性陳述，這些陳述本質上涉及許多風險因素和不確定性，可能會影響未來的財務表現。

Such risk factors may cause actual results to differ materially from those contained in our projections or forward-looking statements. These types of factors are discussed in our press release as well as in our 10-K that was previously filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

此類風險因素可能導致實際結果與我們的預測或前瞻性聲明中包含的結果有重大差異。這些因素在我們的新聞稿以及先前向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-K 文件中均有討論。

Financial schedules containing reconciliations of certain non-GAAP measures along with other supplemental financial schedules, are included as part of our press release and available on our website under the Investors section. With that, I turn the call over to Andrew.

包含某些非GAAP指標調節表以及其他補充財務報表的財務附表已作為新聞稿的一部分提供，並可在我們網站的「投資者」部分查閱。於是，我把電話轉給了安德魯。

Thank you, Kevin. Good afternoon and thank you for joining us. Our third quarter results were exceptional, extending our outstanding and consistent track record of profitable growth and double-digit returns. We achieved a number of company bests including $44 million in operating income, $38 million in underwriting income, an 89.2% combined ratio, and 52% growth in gross written premiums.

謝謝你，凱文。下午好，感謝各位的參與。我們第三季的業績非常出色，延續了我們持續獲利成長和兩位數回報的優異記錄。我們取得了多項公司最佳成績，包括 4,400 萬美元的營業收入、3,800 萬美元的承保收入、89.2% 的綜合比率以及 52% 的毛保費收入成長。

Aside from these company records, we also grew earnings by over 40% and delivered an annualized return on equity of 19.7%. Our results highlight the strength, durability, and execution excellence of our ruler niche strategy.

除了這些公司記錄外，我們的收益也成長了 40% 以上，年化股本回報率達到 19.7%。我們的研究結果凸顯了我們統治者細分市場策略的優勢、持久性和卓越執行力。

Also, our results again demonstrate our very intentional construction of our diversified portfolio of top-notch underwriting businesses, in particular, the sizable portion of our portfolio that is less exposed to the P&C cycles.

此外，我們的表現再次證明了我們精心建立多元化的一流承保業務組合的決心，特別是我們投資組合中受財產和意外傷害週期影響較小的相當一部分。

In this quarter five of nine divisions grew by over 25%, with our agriculture unit as the largest contributor, which I will discuss later in this call. this quarter also underscored our prudence to walk away from business where necessary.

本季度，九個業務部門中有五個部門的業績成長超過25%，其中農業部門貢獻最大，我稍後會在電話會議中詳細討論。本季也凸顯了我們在必要時謹慎退出業務的策略。

Market conditions across much of the PNC market are now showing signs of increased competition. As always, our teams are responding with discipline, leaning in where market dynamics support our return thresholds and stepping back where they do not.

PNC 市場的大部分領域目前都呈現出競爭加劇的跡象。一如既往，我們的團隊以嚴謹的態度應對，在市場動態支持我們的回報閾值時積極進取，在不支持時則退守。

Lastly, before I turn the call over to Mark, I want to welcome Kevin Reed, our new Vice President of Investor Relations, who opened this call. Kevin is a deeply experienced IR professional, and we're pleased to have him lead this function, allowing Natalie, who's been outstanding, taking on double duties since our IPO, to fully focus on her other financial leadership responsibilities. With that, I'll turn the call over to Mark to discuss our financial results in greater detail, Mark.

最後，在將電話交給馬克之前，我想歡迎我們新投資者關係副總裁凱文·里德，他主持了本次電話會議。Kevin 是一位經驗豐富的投資者關係專家，我們很高興由他來領導這項工作，這樣一來，自公司上市以來一直表現出色的 Natalie 就可以全身心地投入到她其他的財務領導職責中。接下來，我將把電話交給馬克，讓他更詳細地討論我們的財務表現。

Thank you, Andrew. We had an exceptional quarter reporting adjusted operating income of $44 million or $1.05 per diluted share and that come of. $45.9 million or $1.10 per diluted share. Gross written premiums grew by 52% in the quarter versus the prior year.

謝謝你，安德魯。我們本季業績表現優異，調整後營業收入為 4,400 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.05 美元，而上一季為 4,590 萬美元，即每股攤薄收益 1.10 美元。本季毛保費收入較上年同期成長52%。

One significant driver of our growth was our agricultural unit and more specifically the growth of our product in the US dairy and livestock industry. setting aside agriculture, gross rate and premiums grew at a strong mid-teens rate in aggregate compared to the prior year, driven by A&H, captives, surety, and specialty programs with all four of these divisions growing by over 25%.

我們成長的一個重要驅動力是農業部門，更具體地說是我們的產品在美國乳製品和畜牧業的成長。撇開農業業務不談，總費率和保費與上年相比實現了強勁的15%左右的增長，這主要得益於意外傷害及健康險、自保公司、擔保和特殊險種業務的增長，這四個部門的增長率均超過25%。

Going forward, we expect quarterly growth to be somewhat uneven as some of the divisions and units such as ag, captives, specialty programs, and A&H have very concentrated renewal cycles driving meaningful quarterly differences as seen this quarter.

展望未來，我們預期季度成長將不均衡，因為一些部門和單位，如農業、自保公司、特殊項目和意外傷害與健康險，其續保週期非常集中，導致季度間出現顯著差異，正如本季度所見。

There will be quarters where growth is lower than what we have reported in each of the 1st 3 quarters this year. net written premiums grew by 64% and our net retention through nine months of 65.1% increased over 62.9% in the prior year.

未來幾季的成長速度可能會低於今年前三個季度的成長速度。淨保費收入成長了64%，前九個月的淨續保率為65.1%，高於去年同期的62.9%。

Turning to our underwriting results, our combined ratio of 89.2% was driven by strong underlying results and a modest catastrophe quarter. The non-cat loss ratio of 6060.2% improved 0.4 points compared to 2024. We continue to observe specific pockets of increased auto liability severity inflation.

從承保業績來看，我們的綜合比率為 89.2%，這主要得益於強勁的基礎業績和適度的災害季度。非巨災損失率為 6060.2%，比 2024 年改善了 0.4 個百分點。我們持續觀察到某些地區的汽車責任險賠償金額上漲幅度增加。

And to a lesser extent auto exposed excess severity inflation, particularly in our construction unit. more broadly, given the wider loss inflation severity backdrop, we continue to maintain a selective position on growing our exposure and occurrence liability lines. Our shorter tail lines, including property, surety, and ag, continue to emerge favorably, as does our professional, energy, and EMS liability portfolio.

此外，汽車險超額損失率的通膨影響較小，尤其是在我們的建築業務部門。更廣泛地說，鑑於整體損失通膨的嚴重程度，我們繼續對擴大風險敞口和事故責任險業務持謹慎態度。我們的短期尾險業務，包括財產險、擔保險和農業險，以及我們的專業責任險、能源責任險和 EMS 責任險組合，都繼續表現出良好的發展勢頭。

Our reserve position continues to be strong as IBNR makes up 73% of our net reserves, while the duration of our liabilities continues to shorten. as a reminder, our ground up review of our lost reserves will be completed in the fourth quarter.

我們的儲備狀況依然穩健，IBNR（已發生但未報告）虧損佔淨儲備的73%，同時負債期限持續縮短。再次提醒，我們對損失儲備的全面審查將於第四季度完成。

The expense ratio of 28.4% improved 4.5 points over the prior year quarter due to economies of scale and was in line with our expectation of sub-thirties. the $2.7 million dollar increase in net investment income over the prior quarter was due to $5.3 million increase in income from our fixed income portfolio, resulting from higher yield and a significant increase in the invested asset base.

由於規模經濟效應，費用率為28.4%，較上年同期下降4.5個百分點，符合我們先前預期的低於30%。淨投資收益較上季增加270萬美元，主要得益於固定收益投資組合收益增加530萬美元，這得益於收益率提高和投資資產規模大幅增長。

This was partially offset by losses in our alternative and strategic investments. underlying marks on the private credit holdings in our alternative asset portfolio continued to generate some volatility in net investment income in the quarter.

另類投資和策略投資的虧損部分抵消了上述影響。本季度，我們另類資產組合中私募信貸持股的潛在風險持續導致淨投資收益出現波動。

This portfolio now represents approximately 4% of our investment portfolio at September 30th. Through 9 months, $32 million of capital was returned and reinvested in our fixed income portfolio. during the quarter, we completed the monetization of our equity portfolio and realized gains of $16.3 million. We redeployed the proceeds into fixed income securities.

截至9月30日，該投資組合約占我們投資組合的4%。前9個月，我們收回了3,200萬美元的資金，並將其再投資於我們的固定收益投資組合。本季度，我們完成了股票投資組合的變現，並實現了1,630萬美元的收益。我們將所得資金重新投資於固定收益證券。

This repositioning aligns our portfolio with our long-term risk and return objectives, enhances predictability of investment income, and provides further flexibility to support future growth. In the third quarter, we put $62 million to work at 5.6%. Our embedded yield was 5.3% at September 30th, up from 5% a year ago.

此次重新調整使我們的投資組合與長期風險和回報目標保持一致，提高了投資收益的可預測性，並提供了更大的靈活性以支持未來的成長。第三季度，我們投入了 6,200 萬美元，收益率為 5.6%。截至9月30日，我們的嵌入式收益率為5.3%，高於一年前的5%。

Our financial leverage is modest as we finish the quarter under 11% debt to capital ratio finally, we continue to prepare for the Apollo acquisition, which we expect to close in the early first quarter of 2026, subject to regulatory approvals.

我們的財務槓桿適中，本季末債務資本比率低於 11%。我們繼續為收購 Apollo 做準備，預計該收購將於 2026 年第一季初完成，但需獲得監管部門的批准。

Deal financing is progressing well and remains on track, and post close we expect our leverage to be approximately 28%. we recognize that the equity research and investor community are working to model the impact of the Apollo acquisition.

交易融資進展順利，一切按計畫進行，預計交易完成後槓桿率約28%。我們意識到，股票研究機構和投資者正在努力模擬阿波羅收購案的影響。

Once we are further along in the approval process, likely in early December, we anticipate providing guidance on Apollo's 2026 financial metrics. during our fourth quarter call in February, we will provide additional guidance on the Skyward business.

一旦審批流程取得進一步進展（預計在12月初），我們預計將提供阿波羅2026年財務指標的指引。在2月份的第四季財報電話會議上，我們將提供更多關於Skyward業務的指引。

Our teams are engaged in a thoughtful plan of execution once the transaction closes. The combination will expand our specialty capabilities, deepen our bench of underwriting talent, and strengthen our ability to deliver superior long-term returns. Now, I will turn the call back over to Andrew.

交易完成後，我們的團隊將制定周密的執行計劃。此次合併將擴大我們的專業能力，增強我們的核保人才儲備，並提高我們實現卓越長期回報的能力。現在，我將把電話轉回給安德魯。

Thank you, Mark. The third quarter once again highlights the distinctiveness, strength, and consistency of our business and execution of our strategy. we continue to not only deliver excellent underwriting results and shareholder returns, but our top-line growth and resulting earnings growth continue to stand out.

謝謝你，馬克。第三季再次凸顯了我們業務的獨特性、實力和穩定性，以及我們策略的有效執行。我們不僅繼續保持了卓越的承保業績和股東回報，而且營收成長和由此帶來的獲利成長也持續表現突出。

These financial metrics clearly showcase that we are different from the rest of the PNC industry and how we approach the market and the portfolio of businesses we have built. given the unusually robust growth this quarter, I want to take a moment to discuss how we're managing through this changing market.

這些財務指標清楚地表明，我們與PNC集團其他成員的不同之處，以及我們開拓市場和建立業務組合的方式。鑑於本季度異常強勁的成長，我想花點時間談談我們是如何應對不斷變化的市場的。

This quarter we grew by over 25% in five of our nine divisions. That said, we also reduced our ratings again in global property and in the construction unit of our construction and energy solutions division, as well as parts of our professional lines division.

本季度，我們九個部門中有五個部門的業績成長超過 25%。儘管如此，我們還是再次下調了全球財產險和建築與能源解決方案部門的建築險業務的評級，以及部分專業險業務的評級。

In these areas, opportunities to write business at pricing terms that meet our high return thresholds are simply challenged. within those divisions, however, we've had excellent success growing specific units such as healthcare professional liability and professional lines and the energy unit in our construction and energy solutions division.

在這些領域，以符合我們高回報標準的定價條款開展業務的機會非常有限。然而，在這些部門內部，我們在發展特定業務單位方面取得了卓越的成功，例如醫療保健專業責任險、專業責任險以及我們建築和能源解決方案部門的能源業務單位。

More broadly, global property and to a lesser extent ENS Property and Inland Marine are becoming increasingly competitive, and in casually we're being very selective given the loss inflation backdrop. And yet we still see opportunities in ENS liability and captives, both of which are growing steadily, as is our energy unit which I noted a moment ago.

更廣泛地說，全球房地產，以及在較小程度上 ENS 房地產和內陸水險，競爭日益激烈，而且鑑於虧損通膨的背景，我們自然會非常謹慎地進行選擇。然而，我們仍然看到 ENS 責任險和自保險領域的機會，這兩個領域都在穩步增長，就像我剛才提到的我們的能源部門一樣。

Turning to our ag unit, our success this year is the result of three years of effort to build a product that is unique and to put in place a strategy to manage potential volatility. demand for reinsurance capacity in dairy and livestock revenue protection has surged as producers and approved insurance providers have sought stable risk transfer solutions amid price volatility in the market.

就我們的農業部門而言，今年的成功源自於三年來我們致力於打造獨一無二的產品，並制定應對潛在波動的策略。由於市場價格波動，乳牛養殖戶和核准的保險公司都在尋求穩定的風險轉移方案，因此對乳牛養殖和畜牧業收入保障再保險的需求激增。

The rewards for our creativity and innovation are now fully materializing. our success story in ag follows other divisions in A&H. We've grown by 45% in the quarter in year-to-date. as we've discussed in the past, we focus on a small employer market and medical cost management. We use AI predictive analytics in risk qualification and selection, a pursued before pay claims approach has high impact for our customers, and we build captive capabilities that sit side by side with our single company stop loss products.

我們的創造力和創新精神正獲得豐厚回報。我們在農業領域的成功，也延續了A&H其他部門的成功經驗。本季我們實現了 45% 的成長，今年迄今也是如此。正如我們之前討論過的，我們專注於小型雇主市場和醫療成本管理。我們在風險評估和選擇中使用人工智慧預測分析，先追討後付款的索賠方法對我們的客戶影響很大，我們建立了與我們單一公司停損產品並駕齊驅的專屬能力。

And our performance as per the recent NAIC ANH policy experience report on the 2024 calendar year highlights we are 15 points better than the industry. In surety this quarter, we resumed a stronger growth trajectory and continued to gain market share as federal funds began to flow, and yet we're not resting on our laurels. We launched an industry first product called NWell, which is an amortized collateralized product for decommissioning obligations for the oil and gas industry.

根據 NAIC 最近發布的 2024 年 ANH 政策經驗報告，我們的表現比業界平均高出 15 分。本季度，擔保業務恢復了強勁的成長勢頭，隨著聯邦資金的流入，市場份額持續擴大，但我們並沒有因此而沾沾自喜。我們推出了業內首款產品 NWell，這是一款用於石油和天然氣行業退役義務的分期償還抵押產品。

This launch comes amid challenges to find quality surety solutions given the dislocation that has resulted from a handful of high profile bank bankruptcy driven losses over the past few years. undoubtedly like our prior launches in surety and in other divisions, we'll build a strong and profitable book around this product.

鑑於過去幾年幾起備受矚目的銀行破產事件造成的損失，尋找高品質的擔保解決方案面臨挑戰，而此產品的推出正值此時。毫無疑問，我們將像以往在擔保和其他業務領域推出的產品一樣，圍繞著這款產品打造一個強大且盈利的業務組合。

Clearly our innovation to rule our niche and execution stands out and is showing in both our growth and profitability and allows us to navigate the more challenging PNC market in ways that others cannot. while our profitable growth is certainly externally differentiating, I continue to believe we're leading in how we're using technology to win.

顯然，我們在細分市場中憑藉創新和執行力脫穎而出，這體現在我們的成長和獲利能力上，也使我們能夠以其他公司無法企及的方式駕馭更具挑戰性的PNC市場。雖然我們的獲利成長無疑具有顯著的外部差異化優勢，但我仍然相信，我們在運用科技制勝方面處於領先地位。

Skyview, which is short for Skyward visual underwriting experience, our award-winning underwriting workstation allows us to multiply with great alacrity the deployment of new capabilities to our underwriters. we continue to make huge leaps forward in using bots to automate submission ingestion through generating high impact narratives that summarize the key risk factors of each account.

Skyview（全稱為 Skyward Visual Underwriting Experience）是我們屢獲殊榮的承保工作站，它使我們能夠以極快的速度向承保人員部署新功能。我們不斷利用機器人技術實現投保申請的自動化，產生能夠概括每個帳戶關鍵風險因素的高影響力敘述，從而持續取得重大進展。

And we're making strides in using GPTs to allow our underwriters and leaders to interrogate and investigate aspects of an account such as summarizing claims or more broadly summarizing performance insights on a book of business.

我們正在利用 GPT 取得進展，使我們的承保人和領導者能夠審查和調查帳戶的各個方面，例如總結索賠或更廣泛地總結業務組合的績效見解。

We believe this continues to be a first mover and learning curve advantage that inures to us. As long as we stay ahead of the AI arms race, we'll continue to lead and win. finally, Our operational metrics remain positive. Renew renewal pricing bounced up a tick from the prior quarter to mid single-digits plus pure rate, and again, we realized mid digit exposure growth, both excluding global property.

我們相信，這仍然是我們享有的先發優勢和學習曲線優勢。只要我們在人工智慧軍備競賽中保持領先，我們就能繼續保持領先地位並取得勝利。最後，我們的營運指標依然保持良好。續保價格較上一季略有上漲，達到個位數中段，加上純費率；此外，我們再次實現了個位數中段的風險敞口增長，這兩項均不包括全球財產險。

New business pricing continued to be in line with our enforce book. Retention remained in the mid 70s for the quarter, driven by business mix and intentional actions on auto within our construction unit. and lastly, submission growth was consistently consistent growing in the mid-teens this quarter.

新業務定價繼續與我們的強制執行計劃保持一致。本季客戶留存率維持在70%左右，這主要得益於業務組合的優化以及我們在建築部門針對汽車業務的積極舉措。最後，提交量成長持續穩定，本季成長率維持在15%左右。

We also remain incredibly excited about closing the Apollo acquisition and beginning to tackle the market together with our new colleagues. while we continue to operate independently until the transaction does close, the combination of our companies represents a significant step forward in our ability to innovate, lead with talent and technology, and build winning positions across the specialty insurance market.

我們對完成對阿波羅的收購併開始與新同事攜手開拓市場感到無比興奮。在交易完成之前，我們將繼續獨立運營，但兩家公司的合併標誌著我們在創新能力、人才和技術領先以及在專業保險市場建立制勝地位方面邁出了重要一步。

In summary, this is another excellent quarter for Skywards specialty. We continue to drive top quartile underwriting results and leverage the diversity of our portfolio to continue our impressive growth and earnings while the broader PNC market becomes more challenging. with that, I I like to turn the call back over to the operator to open up for Q&A operator.

總而言之，這又是 Skywards 專款表現優異的一個季度。我們持續保持著前25%的承保業績，並利用我們多元化的投資組合，在PNC整體市場面臨日益嚴峻挑戰的情況下，繼續保持令人矚目的成長和獲利。接下來，我將把電話轉回給接線生，進行問答環節。

Thank you [Operator Instructions] The first question that I have today will be coming from the line of C. Gregory Peters of Raymond James. Your line is open.

謝謝[操作員說明]。今天我的第一個問題來自雷蒙德詹姆斯公司的 C. Gregory Peters。您的線路已開通。

Well, Hey, good afternoon, everyone. I guess, the logical place to start will be with your top-line results. If we can put the agriculturalop opportunity aside, I just curious about. Some of the numbers we're seeing, accident health has been strong all year, and the captives are doing quite well too, so maybe you give us some perspective on where you're having some success in some of those other, segments of your business is a is a good starting point.

大家好，下午好。我想，最合乎邏輯的切入點應該是你的整體表現。如果我們把農業機會放在一邊，我只是好奇。我們看到的一些數據顯示，意外健康險業務全年表現強勁，自保業務也相當不錯，所以也許您可以給我們介紹一下您在其他一些業務領域取得的成功之處，這將是一個很好的切入點。

Greg, good afternoon. Thanks for the question. Well, look, I think that as I said in the prepared remarks, I think we're just, I'd start by saying we're being appropriately cautious, thoughtful, describe it how you want in, large chunks of what I would describe as the more traditional parts of the PNC market.

格雷格，下午好。謝謝你的提問。嗯，你看，正如我在準備好的發言稿中所說，我認為我們只是，首先我想說的是，我們正在採取適當的謹慎、深思熟慮的態度，無論你怎麼形容，我們都在進入 PNC 市場中我稱之為更傳統部分的很大一部分領域。

It's just, it's becoming more competitive and certainly more nuanced. I think the places we're writing business, in those other divisions are done on, smart terms and conditions. That said, look, I think that we just simply have connected, in other parts of our business.

只是，競爭變得越來越激烈，也越來越複雜。我認為我們在其他部門開展業務時，都是按照合理的條款和條件進行的。也就是說，我認為我們在業務的其他方面已經建立了聯繫。

You saw surety has bounced back, 26%, growth this past quarter, and a lot of that really was we were still maintaining strong growth. As compared to the industry on surety for the first half of the year, just it bounced back to an ex sort of a much more impressive level once the federal funds began to flow, and I highlighted, a new product launch where we've had some really good success already. We're very bullish about the outlook on that and that's sort of in the commercial surety part of our business.

你可以看到擔保業務已經反彈，上個季度成長了 26%，這很大程度上是因為我們仍然保持著強勁的成長勢頭。與今年上半年擔保行業的情況相比，一旦聯邦資金開始流入，擔保行業就迅速反彈到一個更加令人印象深刻的水平，而且我重點提到，我們推出了一款新產品，目前已經取得了一些非常好的成功。我們對此前景非常樂觀，這屬於我們業務的商業擔保部分。

On A&H I think we've talked at length about I did highlight the loss ratio number just to provide an external reference point, again, I think it's a small account market, medical cost management focus, and and the fact that we build an operating model that I think is really quite distinctive, and, we're seeing that come through both in sort of traditional single company, stop loss. Accounts as well as, on the group captive side.

關於意外傷害和健康保險，我認為我們已經詳細討論過，我特意強調了損失率，只是為了提供一個外部參考點。再次強調，我認為這是一個小帳戶市場，專注於醫療成本管理，而且我們建立了一種我認為非常獨特的營運模式，我們看到這種模式在傳統的單一公司和停損業務中都有所體現。帳戶以及集團自保帳戶方面。

Within captives on the PNC side, a lot of that really is just continuing to grow with the captives we have in place. We, it's been some number of quarters since we launched a new captive, but the ones that we have seem to be continuing to add members and of course we're, I think more insulated to the market in total in terms of the price that we're able to put into the captives.

在 PNC 的自保公司方面，許多業務實際上只是隨著我們現有自保公司的不斷發展而持續成長。自從我們推出新的自保公司以來已經過去了幾個季度，但我們現有的自保公司似乎仍在不斷增加成員，當然，我認為就我們能夠投入自保公司的價格而言，我們整體上更能抵禦市場波動。

That's really much more sort of like a I would describe it as a stable, you, you're always keeping price, up against the loss trend, your captive members understand that, and that seems to work, really well. And so, I think each one is unique, but I think the reasons are, a lot about how we basically have built our business and our product and, the fact that that through 9 months this year, nearly 50% of our business is in those categories that are not, PNC cycle exposed and I I think that, it's hard for me to sort of identify any other company who's got a portfolio that looks like ours.

這其實更像是一種穩定機制，你總是能將價格維持在虧損趨勢之上，你的會員都明白這一點，而且這個機制似乎非常有效。所以，我認為每個案例都是獨一無二的，但我認為原因很大程度上在於我們如何建立我們的業務和產品，以及今年前 9 個月，我們近 50% 的業務都屬於那些不受 PNC 週期影響的類別，而且我認為，我很難找到任何其他公司擁有與我們類似的投資組合。

Yeah, thanks for that detail, and you know I appreciate Mark your comments about, holding back on providing 26 guidance on Apollo. But in the context of Andrew, what you said about your business being somewhat, better position for cycle management, maybe you could spend a minute and talk about how the Apollo 3 quarter results look. and how they're positioned in the context of cycle management.

是的，謝謝你提供這個細節，而且你知道我很感謝馬克關於暫緩提供阿波羅計劃第 26 條指導意見的評論。但就安德魯而言，你剛才提到你的公司在周期管理方面處於更有利的地位，或許你可以花點時間談談阿波羅3號季度的業績情況，以及這些業績在周期管理中的定位。

Yeah, I mean, Greg, there really, there's not a lot I can say because, to be H1st, we do not have regulatory approval and I, there's like boundaries where, well, I would be, feel comfortable. I think others including my general counsel sitting in my left probably wouldn't. So what I will say to you, Greg, is that no different than when we announced the transaction, we really like.

是的，我的意思是，格雷格，真的，我沒什麼好說的，因為作為 H1st，我們沒有獲得監管部門的批准，而且，在我看來，也有一些界限，在這些界限上，我會感到自在。我想包括坐在我左邊的法律顧問在內的其他人可能不會這麼想。所以我要對你說的是，格雷格，這和我們宣布這筆交易時的情況一樣，我們非常喜歡這筆交易。

Everything that the Apollo team has done, and I would say that on the, the sort of 1,969 more specialty focused syndicate, they're weighted pretty heavily towards, specialty classes and while they too are not immune to the market cycle, in many of their classes, they, they're definitely not seeing sort of, some of the macro concerns.

阿波羅團隊所做的一切，我想說的是，在1969個更專注於特殊領域的投資集團中，他們非常重視特殊類別，雖然他們也無法免受市場週期的影響，但在他們的許多類別中，他們肯定沒有看到一些宏觀層面的擔憂。

And certainly aren't heavily weighted towards, propertyA and things like that. And as we've talked about, 71 is an entirely different business and it's actually tied much more closely to the exposure growth of sort of digital economy.

當然，它們也不會過度專注於 propertyA 之類的東西。正如我們之前討論過的，71 是一家完全不同的企業，它實際上與數位經濟的曝光成長聯繫得更緊密。

Emerging industries and in that regard, it feels like that that's rather disconnected from the PNC market largely because that business is not being competed, across the market. There, there's very few, and I would dare say one, which is, 1,971 and the things that they do, real competitors in that category. So, I think not unlike ours, there's aspects about their business that, are somewhat insulated from, some of the macro concerns that, you all are asking about, on your interactions with other companies. I understand the.

新興產業在這方面似乎與 PNC 市場相當脫節，主要是因為該業務在整個市場中沒有競爭。在那裡，真正的競爭對手寥寥無幾，我敢說只有一家，那就是 1,971，以及他們所做的一切，在這個類別中算是真正的競爭對手。所以，我認為，與我們的情況類似，他們的業務在某些方面，在某種程度上不受你們在與其他公司互動時所詢問的一些宏觀問題的影響。我明白了。

Boundaries and thanks for the answers.

界線問題，謝謝大家的解答。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. One moment for the next question. The next question comes from the line of Tracy Benji of Wolf Research. Your line is open.

謝謝。稍等片刻，準備回答下一個問題。下一個問題來自 Wolf Research 的 Tracy Benji。您的線路已開通。

Thank you. Most of the PNC insurers right now are sitting on too much excess capital, so much so that it's too much to deploy for underwriting opportunities. So we've seen more muted growth, and Skyward is definitely more growthy, and we've clearly seen that this quarter.

謝謝。目前大多數 PNC 保險公司持有過多的過剩資本，以至於無法用於承保機會。因此，我們看到成長較為平緩，而 Skyward 的成長勢頭明顯更強，這一點在本季度已經很明顯地體現出來了。

I would argue that maybe you're sitting on like lower levels of capital in a way that might be a good thing. Because that means you will have a lot of discipline given more is at stake. So my question is, if we see more growth continuing at these more elevated levels going forward, I get it might be uneven by a quarter.

我認為，或許你目前擁有的資本水準較低，但這反而可能是件好事。因為這意味著，鑑於事關重大，你會更加自律。所以我的問題是，如果我們看到未來成長繼續保持在這些較高水平，我知道成長可能會出現四分之一的不均衡情況。

Where would this capital be coming from? I mean, it feels like you don't have a lot of debt headroom, so would you access the equity markets, or do you think the capital growth through routine earnings could could sustain your growth ambitions?

這筆資金將從哪裡來？我的意思是，感覺你們的債務空間並不大，那你們會考慮進入股票市場嗎？還是認為透過日常獲利實現的資本增長足以支撐你們的成長目標？

Hey, Tracy, good afternoon and thank you for the question, and I love the positivity, relative to our growth outlook. Look, I think the first thing I'd say is through 3 quarters and every one of the three quarters, I would argue we were differentiated on growth by a material level, compared to maybe the companies you might regularly compare us to. Yeah, I would acknowledge that this quarter is kind of an eye-popping number.

嗨，Tracy，下午好，謝謝你的提問，我很欣賞你對我們成長前景的積極態度。首先，我認為在過去的三個季度裡，而且每個季度，我們都實現了顯著的成長，這與你們通常會拿我們和哪些公司做比較相比，差距非常明顯。是的，我承認這個季度的數字確實令人瞠目結舌。

27% growth in the first three quarters this year, I will just say straight up is more growth than we expected. So that's a good thing. It just says that the things that we're doing have sensibly positioned us against the market opportunities.

今年前三個季度成長了 27%，我只能說，這遠遠超出了我們的預期。這是件好事。這只是說明，我們所做的一切已經讓我們在市場機會面前佔據了有利地位。

That said, look, I don't think that I think it's impractical to think that, something like a 27% growth, is kind of a reference number as we look out into the future. But should we find a situation where, we are capital constrained, I'll highlight to you something that I said when we announced the Apollo transaction. Which is one of the really interesting dimensions of Apollo is that they are a capitalli business.

也就是說，我認為以 27% 這樣的成長率作為一個參考數字來展望未來並非不切實際。但是，如果我們遇到資金受限的情況，我會向你們強調一下我在宣布阿波羅交易時說過的話。阿波羅公司真正有趣的特點之一在於，他們是一家資本密集型企業。

Their capital stack is effectively made up of 25% of their own capital and 75% of other people's capital with clear alignment between them and their other capital providers. And we think that that is always an interesting option. That potentially could move not our business but our economic model to have a greater portion that are fee-based, and I'm not saying that in any way we are concerned about our capital.

他們的資本結構實際上由 25% 的自有資本和 75% 的其他人的資本組成，並且他們與其他資本提供者之間存在明確的利益一致性。我們認為這始終是一個值得考慮的選擇。這或許會改變我們的業務模式，但會使我們的經濟模式更依賴收費收入，我並不是說我們擔心我們的資金安全。

We don't think that investors give us enough credit for the fact that we are an incredibly capital efficient organization driven by the fact that we've intentionally constructed our business portfolio the way we we have. I mean we are very capital efficient, but that said, we don't necessarily see any capital constraints, but that doesn't sort of set aside this potential point that, we will be evaluating whether some portion of our underwriting income should be recaptured through fees over time.

我們認為投資人沒有充分認識到，我們是一家資本效率極高的組織，這得益於我們有意建構了我們現在這樣的業務組合。我的意思是，我們的資本效率非常高，但即便如此，我們目前還沒有看到任何資本限制，但這並不意味著我們不會考慮以下潛在問題：我們將評估是否應該隨著時間的推移，透過收取費用來收回部分承保收入。

Very helpful. And I appreciate hearing the commentary about innate surety captives and agriculture growth, but could you touch on the 52% growth in specialty programs? I believe the segment includes property, GL, commercial auto, excess liability, and workers' comp. So among those lines, where were the growth standouts.

很有幫助。我很欣賞關於固有擔保自保公司和農業成長的評論，但您能否談談專業項目 52% 的成長？我認為該部分包括財產險、一般責任險、商業汽車險、超額責任險和工傷賠償險。那麼在這些產品線中，哪些產品線表現突出呢？

Yeah, great question, and I think let me just start with one notable point, which is through 9 months if you look at our specialty programs premium as a percentage of our premium overall, it's 13.4%, right? And and I would, I remind you that a meaningful portion of that is through relationships where we have a meaningful ownership position.

是的，問得好。我想先指出一個值得注意的點，那就是，在過去的 9 個月裡，如果你看一下我們特殊項目的保費占我們整體保費的百分比，那就是 13.4%，對吧？而且，我想提醒各位，其中很重要的一部分是透過我們擁有重要所有權地位的關係來實現的。

So I think we're doing this in a very sort of intentional, very thoughtful way. That said, the last few quarters we've seen a lot of growth in programs, and I, as I've explained in the past, we added two programs. One was a warranty indemnity, program, and that is one where, we own a position in that entity, and the other is a long standing personal relationship that I have.

所以我認為我們正在以一種非常有意識、非常深思熟慮的方式來做這件事。也就是說，在過去的幾個季度裡，我們的專案取得了很大的成長，而且，正如我之前解釋過的，我們新增了兩個專案。其中一項是擔保賠償計劃，我們持有該計劃的股份；另一項是我與該公司之間長期存在的私人關係。

And that program is in Brown Water and Greenwater Marine, and those two programs, we started, having some of the business, come onto our books in, I believe around March of this year. And so by the time that we get through the first quarter, we're going to continue to see growth.

該項目涉及 Brown Water 和 Greenwater Marine，這兩個項目是我們啟動的，其中一些業務大約在今年三月左右進入了我們的業務範圍。因此，到第一季結束時，我們將繼續看到成長。

On a relative basis in programs that's going to be not inconsiderable through through this quarter and through the next quarter, but by the time they'll get to the second quarter of next year, we're going to be laughing ourselves, and I don't think you're going to see that kind of growth numbers as I've mentioned, like when you add a program, it can be chunky and it can make your numbers look different or unique, but in this case, it's really quite controlled around, two very important relationships for us.

從相對意義上講，這在本季和下一季對各個項目來說都不可忽視，但到了明年第二季度，我們都會覺得好笑。我認為你不會再看到我之前提到的那種增長數字了，就像你增加一個項目時，它可能會造成數據上的波動，使你的數字看起來有所不同或獨特，但在這種情況下，它實際上是圍繞著對我們來說非常重要的兩個關係進行控制的。

Thank you. Thank you. One moment for the next question. Our next question will be coming from the line of Matt Carletti of Citizens Capital Markets. Your line is open.

謝謝。謝謝。稍等片刻，準備回答下一個問題。下一個問題將來自 Citizens Capital Markets 的 Matt Carletti。您的線路已開通。

Yeah, Chicago, we got a little to go, but a lot of what I had has been been asked and answered, but maybe just one if I can, Mark, you, I think Mark it was you that mentioned how, this is going to be more volatility quarter to quarter in the growth rates kind of around, which kind of lines of business have big renewal periods.

是的，芝加哥，我們還有一些事情要做，但我之前問的很多問題都已經有人問過也有人回答過了，不過如果可以的話，我再問一個問題。馬克，我想是你提到過，未來幾季的成長率波動會更大，哪些業務線有較長的續約期。

Can you help us with that at all? Is there a particular should we think about certain quarters of the year as being. Kind of we're going to have our strongest growth in this quarter typically because of the bigger renewal books and there's another quarter that will be lighter or is it a little more you you kinda see what you get as the renewals come.

您能幫我們解決這個問題嗎？我們是否應該將一年中的某些季度視為特定的時期？通常來說，由於續約訂單較多，我們本季將迎來最強勁的成長，而下一個季度的成長會稍弱一些，或者說會更強勁一些，這取決於續約訂單的到來情況。

Yeah, thanks, Matt. I mean, look, the, what we saw this quarter with the ag, that's heavily a a Q3 quarter, clearly. In terms of other businesses, A&H has waited more toward the first quarter, property toward the first half of the year. What else am I missing, Andrew? That's those.

謝謝你，馬特。我的意思是，你看，我們本季看到的農業情況，很明顯，這很大程度上是第三季的情況。至於其他業務，A&H 更傾向於等到第一季度，而房地產業務則傾向於等到上半年。安德魯，我還漏掉了什麼嗎？就是那些。

Are the three. Yeah, those are those are 3 that state and then obviously the specialty programs is lumpy as well, based on when. what I'd say to you, Matt, is that is that, because, as I mentioned, I think in response to Tracy's questions like, we ourselves are, we're pretty elated, with 27% growth through 9 months it was more than we expected.

是這三個人。是的，那三個州都提到了這一點，而且很明顯，專業專案的進展也參差不齊，取決於具體時間。馬特，我想對你說的是，正如我之前提到的，我認為，針對特蕾西的問題，我們自己也感到非常高興，9個月內增長了27%，這超出了我們的預期。

I think as we come around to our guidance for next year, I think we'll TRY to be more specific and In helping you better understand as we've digested all this and harmonizing, but Mark is right. I think that look in general there's nothing particularly exciting happening in the 4th quarter. Oh, and by the way, there's a bunch of companies that are way behind plan that are.

我認為，當我們談到明年的指導方針時，我們會盡量做到更加具體，幫助大家更好地理解，因為我們已經消化並協調了所有這些信息，但馬克說得對。我覺得總的來說，第四節沒有什麼特別令人興奮的事情發生。哦，對了，還有很多公司遠遠落後於計劃進度。

Leaning in maybe a little bit even more competitively than otherwise they are, and that's not me sort of saying to you our fourth quarter is not going to be a strong fourth quarter or any of those things, but there's nothing unusual happening in the fourth quarter one way or another, and it is a more competitive quarter always as companies TRY to, fill out their full year so.

他們可能會比平常更具競爭性，我並不是說我們的第四季度不會很強勁，或者其他什麼情況，但第四季度並沒有什麼不尋常的事情發生，而且由於公司都在努力完成全年的業績目標，所以第四季度的競爭總是更加激烈。

But once we get beyond that and we get to our guidance that we'll provide you in the new year, we'll say something about that to help you make sure that you're accounting for that in your plans on written premium as opposed to earned premium. Gotcha.

但是，一旦我們克服了這一點，並在新的一年裡向您提供指導時，我們會對此進行說明，以幫助您確保在您的計劃中，將已承保保費而不是已賺保費考慮在內。明白了。

That's helpful.

那很有幫助。

Thank you. I appreciate it Thank.

謝謝。非常感謝。

Thank you [Operator Instructions] Our next question is coming from the line of Meyer Schills of Keith Baggett and Woods. Your line is open.

謝謝 [操作員說明] 下一個問題來自 Keith Baggett and Woods 的 Meyer Schills 第一線員工。您的線路已開通。

Great, thanks so much. You sort of stay on this topic, but I wanted to get a sense as to whether the ag premium that you wrote in this quarter, does that have Even earnings patterns over the course of the year or is it like the crop side of things where a lot of it's earned as written.

太好了，非常感謝。你一直在談論這個話題，但我想要了解一下，你本季度承保的農業保險保費，其全年收益模式是否均衡，還是像農作物保險那樣，很多收益都是按承保日期計算的。

Hey Mayor, it's Mark. Yeah, we, we'll earn it rateably over the next 12 months for what we wrote this quarter. We don't expose your measure or expose your account for you whether there's lumpy premium recognition. You'll see it in the in the growth, but in terms of earnings, just assume it's flat through the rest of the next 12 months.

市長先生，我是馬克。是的，我們將在未來 12 個月內按比例獲得本季所寫內容的報酬。我們不會洩露您的計量資料或帳戶訊息，無論是否有保費確認不均的情況。你會在成長方面看到這一點，但就收益而言，就假設未來 12 個月剩餘時間收益將保持不變。

That helps it helps a tremendous amount.

這真的很有幫助。

Thank you. And by the way, that's true. That's true for our entire agg book and And other businesses that have kind of unique features like that like surety and so forth, we apply that same that same approach consistently.

謝謝。順便說一句，這是真的。這一點適用於我們所有的綜合業務，以及其他具有類似擔保等獨特功能的業務，我們始終如一地採用相同的方法。

Okay, that, that's absolutely perfect. Related question, I just want to make sure I understood the comments about the lumpiness. You're just talking about the fact that these different niches have different renewal. Calendar days, not that there's anything nonrecurring or fundamentally non-recurring in the third quarter premium.

好的，這簡直太完美了。還有一個相關問題，我只是想確認我是否理解了關於表面凹凸不平的評論。你只是在說這些不同的細分市場有不同的更新周期而已。日曆日，並非指第三季溢價中有任何非經常性或本質上非經常性的內容。

No, there's no non-recurring. There's no non-recurring items here at all. If something. If something comes up that's non-recurring or we pull a policy, forward or push back that's sizable, we would highlight that, but no, there's nothing, there's nothing unusual. Look, I think it's our way of basically just saying look we're, we delivered 27% growth through the first three quarters. I, I'm sure across the universe of each of the companies that you cover, there's maybe.

不，沒有一次性費用。這裡沒有任何一次性項目。如果有什麼事。如果出現非經常性事件，或我們對政策進行重大調整（提前或推遲），我們會特別說明，但目前沒有發生任何異常情況。你看，我認為這基本上就是我們在說：看，我們在前三個季度實現了 27% 的成長。我確信，在你們報道的每一家公司中，或許都有這樣的公司。

One, if any companies that that look like that, and this quarter at, 51%, 52% growth is just, it kind of stands out and we just, we are simply, we're simply just trying to make sure that, you, as research analysts and our investors understand that, there is real lumpiness here and it's evident, through the first three quarters.

第一，如果有哪家公司看起來像這樣，而且本季成長率達到 51% 或 52%，那就顯得格外突出。我們只是想確保你們，作為研究分析師和我們的投資者，明白這裡面存在著真正的波動，這點在前三個季度中顯而易見。

0.100%, you were.

0.100%，你當時是。

Very clear. I just want to make sure that I wasn't misinterpreting stuff. Last question, I guess, there was a clearly understandable step up in operating in general expenses on a year to year basis, and I assume that that relates to to the growth in gross written premium. Is this a good starting point going forward? The $52 million that we saw in the quarter?

非常清楚。我只是想確認一下我沒有誤解什麼。最後一個問題，我想，營運一般費用逐年明顯增加，我認為這與毛保費的成長有關。這是一個好的起點嗎？我們本季看到的5200萬美元？

Yeah, I mean, Mayor, there's not going to be much movement quarter over quarter. So yeah, I think that's a pretty good baseline. I missed the first part of the question.

是的，我的意思是，市長，季度之間不會有太大的變化。是的，我認為這算是一個相當不錯的基準。我漏看了問題的第一部分。

Oh, I just.

哦，我只是。

I'm assuming, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that the reason you have this like huge step up from $41 million to $52 million from the second quarter to the third is just associated with the gross certain premiums. Obviously, we see it in acquisition expenses, so I just wanted to confirm that it's the right baseline for G&A expenses as well.

我假設（如果我錯了請糾正我），您認為從第二季到第三季從 4,100 萬美元到 5,200 萬美元的巨大增長僅僅是因為確定性保費總額增加。顯然，我們在收購費用中可以看到這一點，所以我只是想確認一下，它是否也是一般及行政費用的正確基準。

Bear with me second. Yeah, I think Mayor, to TRY to make sure we're looking at what you're looking at, we, I would suggest let's follow, can we take that offline and make sure that we understand and give you an explanation.

請稍等片刻。是的，市長，我認為為了確保我們關注的是您關注的內容，我建議我們線下討論一下，確保我們理解並向您解釋清楚。

I will just highlight that, we're, our other underwriting expense is going down period on period. So, as a on a ratio basis, so we are, we're getting leverage. away from acquisition expense, period on period. So I want to make sure that we're looking at what you're looking at.

我只想強調一點，我們的其他承保費用正在逐期下降。所以，從比例來看，我們正在獲得槓桿效應，逐期降低收購費用。所以我想確保我們看到的和你們看到的是一樣的。

Okay, yeah, absolutely, I'll follow-up. Thank you.

好的，當然，我會跟進。謝謝。

Thanks, Mayor.

謝謝市長。

Thanks, Merrick. Thank you. One moment, please. Our next question is coming from the mind of Michael Zerinsky of BMO Capital Markets. Your line is open.

謝謝你，梅里克。謝謝。請稍等片刻。下一個問題來自 BMO 資本市場的 Michael Zerinsky。您的線路已開通。

Hey, great, good afternoon. Just, on the overall retention levels that you all give us which are helpful. When I guess in mid 70s, and I guess just at a high level when we think of ENS business, we think of ENS kind of being in the 70s and more traditional being in the Mid 80s, maybe higher. So I guess the fact that you guys are mid-70s, I guess I'm just want to make sure just just means that the non-ENS portion of your book, just the specialty portion is just runs at a naturally lower retention level.

嘿，太好了，下午好。只是，你們提供的整體留存率數據很有幫助。我猜想，如果從宏觀角度來看，當我們想到 ENS 業務時，我們會想到 ENS 大概在 70 年代，而更傳統的 ENS 則在 80 年代中期，甚至更高。所以我想，你們都七十多歲了，我只是想確認一下，這是否意味著你們書中的非 ENS 部分，也就是專業部分，其記憶水平自然會較低。

Yeah, Mike, this is Andrew. I just to step back on this and remind you something that we've talked about in the past, there are 3 big drivers of our growth to net that that make us look a little bit different than maybe others, and those 3 that we've always reminded of our one, our global property business. Remember we have a very large line and And we have a strong longstanding quota share participation that allows us to have that large line, and that's one big part.

是的，麥克，這是安德魯。我只想回顧一下我們過去討論過的內容，我們成長的三大驅動力使我們看起來與其他公司略有不同，而這三大驅動力我們一直強調的是我們的全球房地產業務。記住，我們擁有非常龐大的生產線，而且我們長期以來都有強大的配額份額參與，這使我們能夠擁有如此龐大的生產線，這是其中一個重要因素。

The second is captives, which is structurally that way. And then the third is A&H, where we've had historically on the on the stand-alone stop loss business, a very sizable quota share support with a very attractive seed that allows us to Effectively lock in a portion of our underwriting results and then, and then similarly on the ANH captives, you have the same dynamic happening.

第二種是俘虜，其結構就是這樣的。第三部分是意外傷害和健康險 (A&H)，我們歷來在獨立的止損業務方面擁有非常可觀的配額份額支持，以及非常有吸引力的種子資金，這使我們能夠有效地鎖定一部分承保業績。同樣，在意外傷害和健康保險 (ANH) 自保公司方面，也存在著同樣的動態。

That said, in the other businesses as things grow like ag and so forth, there's very little reinsurance or in that case retrocessional reinsurance used and so some of this is just straight up mix and I wouldn't look at this quarter. I would look at the year-to-date where I think we're sitting at about 65%, I believe. Year-to-date, and I think as we get to the end of the year, that sort of end of year number will be a good proxy for your models for next year.

也就是說，在其他行業，例如農業等，隨著業務的增長，再保險或追溯再保險的使用非常少，因此其中一些只是簡單的組合，我不會關注本季度的情況。我會看看今年迄今為止的完成情況，我認為我們目前的完成率大約是 65%。就今年迄今為止的數據而言，我認為隨著年底的臨近，年底的數字將很好地代表你們明年的模型。

Got it. Okay, thank you. Pivoting, to, some of the comments, Mark, made on, just kind of the overall reserve, puts and takes. It seemed like nothing new there, commercial auto construction or kind of called out as continuing to be, as the industry also sees under pressure. But you also mentioned a a 4Q review, so I just want to make sure there's probably nothing there that you, are you saying that there might be a deeper dive in 4Q on some of these items?

知道了。好的，謝謝。回到馬克的一些評論，這些評論是關於整體儲備金、買賣情況的。這似乎沒什麼新鮮的，商用汽車製造業或被指責繼續面臨壓力，正如該行業所看到的那樣。但您也提到了第四季度回顧，所以我只是想確認一下，您是否說第四季度可能會對其中一些項目進行更深入的研究？

It my case, Mark, it's just part of our process where, and we talked about this a lot in terms of our philosophy. Look, we do look and review our reserves each and every quarter. We are, we do, we, our business doesn't move that quickly where I think it's appropriate to respond every single quarter to what we see.

就我而言，馬克，這只是我們流程的一部分，而且我們已經從我們的理念角度對此進行了很多討論。我們每季都會查看和審查我們的儲備金。我們是，我們確實，我們的業務發展速度並沒有那麼快，我認為沒必要每季都對我們所看到的情況做出反應。

Oh I'm just trying to. Foreshadow is that's when we will all, we will do the deep dive review and any adjustments that we see we'll make them in the 4th quarter to your point, I feel great about where we are in terms of reserves.

哦，我只是想這麼做。預示著，到那時我們所有人都會進行深入的審查，我們將對發現的任何需要調整的地方進行調整。正如你所說，我對我們目前的儲備感到非常滿意。

Our philosophy has not changed. We continue to be conservative and that will. Continue, the industry and you noted auto liability, yeah, that's something that we've been looking at a lot, but the other part of what I said in my comments is what we've seen in terms of favorable emergences elsewhere. So short story, Mike, I feel great about where we are, but we'll update you in the 4th quarter with what happens.

我們的理念沒有改變。我們將繼續保持保守立場，而且會一直如此。繼續，您剛才提到了汽車責任險，是的，這是我們一直在關注的問題，但我剛才評論的另一部分是我們看到的其他領域出現的有利情況。簡而言之，麥克，我對我們目前的狀況感到非常滿意，但我們會在第四季度向你報告後續情況。

Okay, got it. And.

好的，明白了。和。

Then.

然後。

Lastly, just follow-up to Tracy's question on the premium growth versus equity levels, so, loud and clear what what you said there. I just want to, just, with the Apollo deal coming on, there's like the, there's the financing terms and the timeline, that you've given us in the past. What is there, would you guys, would you all tinker with any of the financing or timeline based on just this much better than expected growth or nothing to think through there?

最後，針對 Tracy 關於保費成長與權益水準的問題，我再補充一下，你剛才說的很清楚。我只是想說，隨著阿波羅交易的進行，就像你過去告訴我們的融資條款和時間表一樣。你們覺得呢？你們會根據遠超預期的成長情況，對融資或時間表進行任何調整嗎？還是說根本無需考慮這個問題？

No, nothing to sift through that, Mike, where there's nothing about this quarter that changes how we're approaching things timeline, we still expect very early in the first quarter of next year, and really nothing has changed. The financing has gone really well. We're in a great position and yeah, we're, there's nothing about the execution that's noteworthy, we're in a great spot. Thank you. Thank you.

不，沒什麼好挑剔的，麥克，本季沒有任何情況會改變我們處理事情的時間表，我們仍然預計在明年第一季初就能完成，真的沒有任何變化。融資進展非常順利。我們現在處境很好，是的，執行方面沒有什麼值得注意的地方，我們現在處境很好。謝謝。謝謝。

Thank you. One moment, please. Our next question will be coming from the line of Andrew Anderson of Jefferies. Your line is open.

謝謝。請稍等片刻。下一個問題將來自傑富瑞集團的安德魯安德森。您的線路已開通。

Hey, good afternoon. Maybe kind of back on reserves and just loss inflation. I think the construction inflation comment was new, and we've heard from some other specialty companies of some construction defect claims, but maybe you could just expand a bit on what you were trying to get across with the construction inflation comment.

嘿，下午好。或許是重新依賴儲備金，再加上通貨膨脹造成的損失。我認為關於建築業通膨的評論是新的，我們也從其他一些專業公司那裡聽到了一些建築缺陷索賠，但也許您可以再詳細解釋一下您關於建築業通膨的評論想要表達的意思。

Yeah, so, Andrew, this is Andrew and Mark may add to that. I think more of what we're seeing, to be H1st, is, I don't know how to be sort of, too vivid about this, but, we basically see the kind of severity that you might see in heavy auto now making its way into F-150 accidents, construction.

是的，安德魯，我是安德魯，馬克可能會補充一些內容。我認為我們現在看到的更多情況，就 H1st 而言，我不知道該如何形像地描述，但我們基本上看到，重型汽車事故中可能出現的嚴重程度，現在正在蔓延到 F-150 事故和建築工地。

Some of our book the trades it basically leading the site, an accident occurring, and what we're seeing is, severity inflation that, to be H1st, is just I, listen, I feel like I've been one of the earliest and most consistent.

我們的一些書籍交易基本上引領著網站，發生了一起事故，我們看到的是嚴重性膨脹，作為 H1st，我只是，聽著，我覺得我一直是最早也是最穩定的之一。

Protagonists on this because this is not new. And I, the way I know this isn't new is because through 9 months this year, 11% of our book is auto, and we took the company public, it was 25%, and that 11% has probably got about 80% rate since then.

之所以成為主角，是因為這種情況並不新鮮。我知道這並非新鮮事，因為今年前 9 個月，我們的業務中有 11% 是汽車貸款，而公司上市時，這個比例是 25%，從那以後，這 11% 的業務量可能已經增長到了 80% 左右。

And so we're probably, down on an exposure basis, well less than, the 60% from a premium basis, or 40% from a premium basis. It's just that we keep seeing the loss inflationary dimensions emerge in areas that we're surprised by. And I don't mean like we're surprised like we're not responsible.

因此，以風險敞口計算，我們的損失可能遠低於以保費計算的 60%，或低於以保費計算的 40%。只是我們不斷看到一些我們意想不到的領域出現虧損通膨的跡象。我的意思是，我們並不感到驚訝，也不是說我們沒有責任。

Prudent, professionals about how we're looking at our business, like you're just simply surprised that a claim of this size and an injury of this could result in that kind of loss, and yet I have full confidence in our claims folks, the way that they're executing.

謹慎、專業地看待我們的業務，就像你對如此巨大的索賠和如此嚴重的傷害會導致如此巨大的損失感到驚訝一樣，但我對我們的理賠人員及其執行方式充滿信心。

And and it's really nothing much more complex than that. And I think that it should give everybody pause for even if you believe that you have ring fenced the inflationary areas, I believe that anything that is personal injury exposed, occurrence liability is fertile ground for considerable inflation, and you have to be incredibly thoughtful about how you're constructing your current liability book.

其實事情沒有那麼複雜。我認為這應該讓每個人都深思，即使你認為你已經將通貨膨脹的領域隔離開來，但我認為任何涉及人身傷害、事故責任的領域都是通貨膨脹的溫床，你必須非常認真地考慮如何構建你當前的責任險組合。

And I wouldn't read into anything more than what I just said because that really is kind of the dimension and you are right that we've been talking about construction now for a couple of quarters, but it has been, autofocused thing and, but that's been a theme that's been consistent for us for some number of quarters.

我不會過度解讀剛才說的話，因為這確實是問題的關鍵。你說得對，我們已經連續幾個季度都在談論建設，但這確實是一個自動聚焦的問題，而且這在我們幾個季度以來一直是一個不變的主題。

Okay. Thank you for the color there. And then just on kind of the overall rate commentary, I think I heard mid single digit plus pure rate. and mid-single-digit exposure, both excluding property.

好的。謝謝你帶來的色彩。然後，就整體利率而言，我聽到的純利率是中個位數，風險敞口也是中個位數，兩者都不包括房產。

Excluding global property, just global property, Andrew.

不包括全球資產，只包括全球資產，安德魯。

Okay. The exposure piece sounds fairly sizable. Could you maybe just help us frame how that stands relative to the first half of the year?

好的。這篇報導篇幅似乎相當長。您能否幫我們說明一下，這與今年上半年的情況相比如何？

Yeah, great question. I highlighted it in the last quarter as well. We ourselves were – you know, listen, I think we're all sort of trying to figure out what the economy – you know, what's happening in the economy. And, you know, and I think in the second quarter, we similarly had a really surprisingly positive result on exposure growth.

嗯，問得好。我在上個季度也重點強調了這一點。我們自己也……你知道，聽著，我想我們都在試著弄清楚經濟……你知道，經濟中發生了什麼事。而且，你知道，我認為在第二季度，我們在業務拓展成長方面也取得了同樣令人驚訝的正面成果。

You know, if you kind of look out over the past, I don't know, maybe two to three years, you know, we've been bouncing between kind of like two and four on any quarter. And then the last couple of quarters, it's ticked up a bit.

你知道，如果你回顧過去兩三年，你會發現我們每季的業績都在兩到四之間波動。然後，最近幾個季度，這個數字略有上升。

That's positive. I don't know if it tells us anything other than, you know, in some of our businesses, we recapture a tiny little bit of rate in exposure. You know, I talked about surety is somewhat unique as it relates to exposure, but we're just reporting out on what we're seeing. So I think that's a positive sign, right? Because, you know, certainly you want to be able to grow premiums and exposure growth is a good way to grow premiums as long as you're priced properly.

這是個好消息。我不知道這除了告訴我們，在某些業務中，我們能稍微挽回一些損失之外，還能說明什麼。你知道，我之前說過擔保在風險敞口方面有些特殊，但我們只是把我們看到的情況反映出來。所以我覺得這是個好兆頭，對吧？因為，你知道，你當然希望能夠增加保費，而只要定價合理，增加風險敞口就是增加保費的好方法。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. One moment for the next question. And our next question will be coming from the line of Paul Newsome of Piper Center. Your line is open.

謝謝。稍等片刻，準備回答下一個問題。接下來，我們將向 Piper Center 的 Paul Newsome 提問。您的線路已開通。

Great, just a couple of follow-ups. One was, just to clarification, the debt to cap 29%. I assume that's, I believe that's a decent amount above where you want it to be long-term. Is it fair assumption that, after the deal, you'd be looking at basically retaining capital until that falls down into your. More comfortable range.

好的，還有幾個後續問題。其中一項，為了澄清，是將債務上限設定為 29%。我認為，這比你長期期望達到的水平要高出不少。交易完成後，是否可以合理假設你基本上會保留資金，直到它歸你所有？更舒適的範圍。

Well, actually, Paul, I'm not uncomfortable at 28. 5% at all actually, we intentionally, we're under levered if you will, to provide us with this flexibility. So, yeah, I'm not uncomfortable with it at all. The organic capital growth itself, as you just pointed out, will reduce the. The leverage and it will over time. So, yeah, I'm not uncomfortable with the 28% and the organic capital generation over the next 12 to 18 months will serve to reduce the leverage ratio.

其實，保羅，我對 28.5% 的利率一點也不覺得不舒服，我們有意地降低了槓桿率，就是為了給我們這種彈性。所以，是的，我一點也不覺得不自在。正如你剛才指出的那樣，有機資本成長本身會減少。槓桿作用會隨著時間的推移而增強。所以，是的，我對 28% 的槓桿率並不感到不安，未來 12 到 18 個月的有機資本增長將有助於降低槓桿率。

And then, unrelated question, but a little bit of follow-up on reinsurance usage. It, it's looking like, reinsurance is amongst the most competitive places. Can that be an advantage for you folks? Given the structure of your company and what you've talked about previously.

然後，還有一個不相關的問題，但想稍微了解一下再保險的使用情況。看來，再保險業是競爭最激烈的領域之一。這對你們來說算是優勢嗎？考慮到貴公司的結構以及您之前所談到的內容。

Yeah, this is Andrew. Look, I mean, I think if you go from top to bottom, our sort of purchase of reinsurance is pretty fairly spread, our cat program as you, as is not a monster cat program, our spend is kind of, mid single-digits plus, kind of millions of dollars on cats.

是的，這是安德魯。你看，我的意思是，我認為如果你從上到下來看，我們購買再保險的比例相當均衡，我們的巨災保險計劃，正如你所說，並不是一個龐大的巨災保險計劃，我們在巨災保險上的支出大概在幾千萬美元左右。

It's like yeah, the reinsurance, markets, becoming obviously more favorable to students, but I don't know if that, I listen, I think that, it can be helpful, but it's not going to be a big. Improvement year over year.

是的，再保險市場顯然對學生更有利，但我不知道這是否會有幫助，我聽了之後覺得，這可能會有所幫助，但不會造成太大影響。逐年進步。

Great. Appreciate the help. Thank you, guys.

偉大的。感謝你的幫助。謝謝大家。

Thank you. Thank you. And our next question will be coming from the line of Michael Phillips of Oppenheimer. Your line is open.

謝謝。謝謝。接下來，我們將請奧本海默公司的麥可‧菲利普斯提問。您的線路已開通。

Thank you. Good afternoon. Andrew, may be more of a theoretical question. How strong do you think the correlation is, if it even exists between the PNC pricing cycle and demand for captive formation?

謝謝。午安.安德魯，這可能更多的是一個理論問題。您認為 PNC 定價週期與自保公司組成需求之間的相關性有多強（如果存在的話）？

That's a really great question. So before we really kind of leaned in on captives, we looked at this and During, and I will, if you allow us, I can follow up and try to dig out some of the information. But during the sort of the soft market period leading up to kind of, you know, let's just call it 2019, 2020 kind of timeframe, captive growth still was quite robust and relative to the PNC market, very robust.

這真是個好問題。所以在我們真正開始關注俘虜問題之前，我們研究了這個問題，而且，如果你們允許的話，我可以跟進並嘗試挖掘一些資訊。但在 2019 年、2020 年左右的疲軟市場時期，自有資金的成長仍然相當強勁，相對於 PNC 市場而言，成長非常強勁。

There's no question to your point that you know, a hard market environment appropriately should force, in our case, we're talking group captives, so mid-market kinds of risk, a company that really wants to have more direct financial connection to their cost of risk, certainly that becomes an impetus. But on the flip side, you know, the retention in the captives is very sticky because you generally construct them in a way that is quite sort of measured and controlled, you know, renewal cycle to renewal cycle.

毫無疑問，你的觀點是正確的，在嚴峻的市場環境下，我們在這裡討論的是集團自保公司，也就是中端市場風險，一家真正希望與自身風險成本建立更直接財務聯繫的公司，肯定會受到這種環境的影響。但另一方面，你知道，自保公司的客戶留存率非常高，因為你通常會以相當可控的方式建構它們，你知道，一個續保週期接著一個續保週期。

And, you know, you're not, you're already sort of self-selecting in risks that have an attention towards risk management and have capabilities that the wider market on average doesn't have. And so, you know, we also think that in a softer market, you're more immune. This is the point about sort of it's less cycle-exposed. you're more immune to the PNC cycle than otherwise you would be, even if you're writing PNC lines, which we are in our, in our campus.

而且，你知道，你實際上已經在某種程度上自我選擇那些注重風險管理並具備一般市場平均水平所不具備的能力的風險。所以，你知道，我們也認為在市場疲軟的情況下，你的抗風險能力會更強。關鍵在於，它受週期性波動的影響較小。即使你像我們校園裡一樣，在寫 PNC 代碼，你也比其他人更能抵禦 PNC 週期的影響。

And you're saying you're more immune because of the retention piece?

你是說因為有藥物保留，所以你的免疫力比較強？

Yeah, because of the retention and because the captive members themselves are directly involved in seeing the experience. And so, you know, in that experience tends to be a much more stable, consistent experience. you know, here's what's happening with exposure growth, here's what's happening with losses, here's what's happening with loss inflation,

是的，因為這樣能提高使用者留存率，而且鎖定的使用者本身就可以直接參與體驗。所以，你知道，這種體驗往往更穩定、一致。你知道，這是風險敞口成長的情況，這是損失的情況，這是損失膨脹的情況。

because they're eating their own cooking, right? I mean, it's like, you know, they're risk managers, and if they're good, they get the benefits, and if they're, you know, they're not good, they see the cost, and if they're just very consistent, which many of them are in our case, then you get a much more stable period over period kind of renewal.

因為他們吃的是自己做的飯菜，對吧？我的意思是，你知道，他們是風險管理者，如果他們做得好，就能獲得收益；如果他們做得不好，就會付出代價；如果他們非常穩定，就像我們這裡很多公司一樣，那麼你就能獲得更加穩定的續約週期。

Okay, no, thanks. Perfect, perfect, Doug.

好的，不用了，謝謝。完美，完美，道格。

I guess that's one of the reasons why I was asking. It's one of the reasons we love the category. It's just, you know, we don't have the benefits of being travelers or Hartford writing small commercial. This is our version of kind of like stick to your ribs kind of, you know, ballast for the business.

我想這就是我問這個問題的原因之一。這也是我們喜歡這個類別的原因之一。你知道，我們沒有旅行者或哈特福德市撰寫小型商業廣告的那些好處。這是我們版本的「支撐業務發展、穩定業務發展」之類的東西。

So it sounds like one of the reasons for the question is, should we get into a softer market? Does that mean any kind of slight headwind to your growth and cap it sounds like that's not something you'd be concerned about.

所以，這個問題的原因之一似乎是：我們是否應該進入一個疲軟的市場？這是否意味著你的成長和上限會受到任何輕微的阻礙？聽起來你似乎不擔心這一點。

I, you know, we'll know when the time comes, but it's certainly not my top concerns as compared to other things I'd be concerned about in the soft market.

你知道，到時候就知道了，但與疲軟的市場中我更關心的其他事情相比，這肯定不是我最關心的問題。

Okay. All right. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

好的。好的。感謝您抽出時間。謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. And our next question will be coming from the line of Mark Hughes of Chewist. Your line is open.

謝謝。接下來的問題將來自 Chewist 的 Mark Hughes。您的線路已開通。

Yeah. Thank you very much. Andrew, the transactional E&S business, that's been a little slower growth. I think you talked about E&S liability being a good area for you. Does that fall under the transactional bucket or heading? Yeah.

是的。非常感謝。Andrew，交易型環境與社會業務的成長速度稍慢一些。我想你之前說過環境與社會責任是你比較擅長的領域。這是否屬於交易類或交易標題下？是的。

No, we, I think we've mentioned in the past, we, our book there is, it's a small medium business, average premium between 40 to 50K on the property side, 50% to 60% of what we write our primary and full limits and 40% to 50% we're writing, usually the primary and and somebody else is writing the access and then on the liability side. It's a lot of million dollar primaries and and some supported and unsupported excess, very little of what we write there has auto exposure and and that's the book that's, and so we talk about it, the property side, you know.

不，我們，我想我們以前提到過，我們的業務規模是中小型企業，財產險方面的平均保費在 4 萬到 5 萬美元之間，我們承保的保單中，50% 到 60% 是我們承保的，通常是主險和全額險，40% 到 50% 是其他人承保的，然後是責任方面。有很多價值百萬美元的初選，以及一些有支持和無支持的超額收益，我們在那裡寫的內容很少涉及汽車，這就是那本書的內容，所以我們談論的是房地產方面，你知道的。

I just, I'll just say it straight up, I, because we listen to some other, some other companies talk about this, anybody who is presenting a case and if you are presenting a case that property, In the ENS market, even on the smaller side of it, is from a rate perspective is going in a positive direction, isn't starting from a position of, good prudential pricing.

我就直說了吧，因為我們聽其他一些公司談論過這個問題，任何提出論點的人，如果你提出的論點是，在ENS市場，即使是規模較小的房產，從費率的角度來看，其發展方向是積極的，但其定價並非出於良好的審慎考慮。

And there's a couple out there with those commentary, and and on the liability side, I think consistent with what others have said, the, sort of the primary mi, primary GL is, it's pretty competitive out there, some silliness from MGAs and so forth, and the excess is a better market and for our part, our ex access is either supported over our primary if we're writing unsupported, the thing that we're generally writing is, business that has very little auto exposure to it, and you know we're very thoughtful about sort of the personal injury, how heavy that personal injury, loss inflation profile of exposure looks, but the market's still pretty good.

市面上確實有一些類似的評論，就責任險方面而言，我認為與其他人所說的一致，主要責任險（MI）和主要一般責任險（GL）的市場競爭非常激烈，一些管理總代理（MGA）的做法也比較荒謬，而超額責任險市場則更好。就我們而言，如果我們承保的是無擔保的超額責任險，那麼我們的超額責任險通常會比主要責任險更有保障。我們通常承保的業務是汽車風險敞口很小的，而且我們非常關注人身傷害，以及人身傷害風險敞口的嚴重程度和損失通膨情況，但市場整體狀況仍然相當不錯。

Yeah. What's been just a very recent trend in property? Is it kind of stepped down and therefore you've adjusted your appetite or is it just continuing to drift downward?

是的。最近房地產領域出現了什麼樣的趨勢？是食慾有所下降，所以你的食慾也隨之調整了，還是食慾持續下降？

Yeah, I listen, I think that there's just, I think, I think Tracy might have made this point. There's just, there's way too much capacity knocking around the property market, if you're writing cat and it doesn't have to be big limit cat doesn't be shared and layered. It's just if you're writing, tier one cat. You're writing against, some just, there's some just crazy stupidity out there, like just stuff that doesn't make any sense and anybody who believes it makes sense is fooling themselves, and what happens is that, good smart. Will say, and I've heard this from, some of the other CEOs and the calls that they're saying, there's just not opportunity there, so they go to the next thing and they go to the next thing. And so what happens is you get an erosion in the market that just starts to find its way into other areas.

是的，我聽了，我覺得，我覺得，我覺得崔西可能已經表達過這一點了。只是，房地產市場上的產能過剩了，如果你寫貓，而且它不一定是大限制貓，貓不會被共享和分層。如果你在寫作，那就是一級貓。你寫這篇文章是為了反駁一些愚蠢至極的東西，有些東西簡直荒謬可笑，任何認為它有道理的人都是在自欺欺人，而結果就是，聰明人也會犯錯。威爾說，我也從其他一些執行長那裡聽到類似的說法，他們說那裡根本沒有機會，所以他們就去做下一件事，再去做下一件事。因此，市場就會萎縮，而且這種萎縮還會蔓延到其他領域。

To the point where, as I've mentioned in the past, for example, in our property book, we write fires our principal peril. We write really tough risks. We write the stuff that's in the ENS market for a reason, but when you start to see silly competition come to that part of the market, there's a price where we will write the business and there's a price where we won't, and we're one of the best at it. I just, I'll say straight up, we make a lot of money on the property side.

就像我之前提到的那樣，例如，在我們的財產手冊中，我們將火災列為我們的主要風險。我們撰寫風險極高的文章。我們之所以在 ENS 市場創作內容是有原因的，但是當看到一些愚蠢的競爭對手進入這個市場時，我們就會設定一個價格區間，在這個區間內我們會承接業務，而在區間內我們則不會，而我們在這方面是最優秀的之一。我直說了吧，我們在房地產方面賺了很多錢。

We're super smart, we're very sensible. We deliver a good product for our customers, but we charge an appropriate price for the exposure, and when the guys who come in who don't know what they're doing in that, that's just problematic. And what's happening is that's happening in more and more categories across the property market.

我們非常聰明，我們非常明智。我們為客戶提供優質的產品，但我們對曝光收取合理的價格，而那些不懂行的人進來，就會造成問題。而且，這種情況正在房地產市場的各個領域不斷發生。

Understood.

明白了。

Thank you.

謝謝。

And yet I still feel very good about our business and our ability to navigate, so I wouldn't want to be anybody else other than us.

但我仍然對我們的業務和我們的應對能力感到非常滿意，所以我不想成為我們以外的任何人。

Appreciate it.

謝謝。

Thank you, Mark.

謝謝你，馬克。

Thank you. And we now have a follow-up question coming from the line of Tracy Benjigi of Wolf Research. Please go ahead.

謝謝。現在，來自 Wolf Research 的 Tracy Benjigi 提出了一個後續問題。請繼續。

Hey, thanks for taking me back in the queue. I'm just curious, given the uneven growth by segment, which should lead to some makeshift, I'm wondering how we should be thinking about your underlying loss ratio and expense ratio. Like for instance, surety is a low loss ratio, high expense ratio products, and other products have different profiles.

嘿，謝謝你們讓我重新排隊。我只是好奇，鑑於各業務板塊成長不均衡，這可能會導致一些權宜之計，我想知道我們應該如何看待你們的基本損失率和費用率。例如，擔保產品屬於低損失率、高費用率產品，而其他產品則具有不同的特性。

Yeah, it's it's an outstanding question because we have it all in the book, right? We have examples like surety, which is incredibly high acquisition expense, very low loss ratio. We have A&H, which is low acquisition expense, and low expense overall, and high loss ratio, similar profile on the ag side and what I'd say is is that again, what we'll do is we'll come back in our Guidance, but you know I think that through the first three quarters you're seeing the earnings of that mixed change coming through. But obviously given, for example, the volume of ag, how that sort of manifests itself on acquisition cost versus operating expense versus loss ratio, we'll come back and the guidance when we give our full year guidance early in the new year, Tracy, and until then I don't think we really want to or are prepared to say much more.

是的，這是一個非常好的問題，因為書裡都有答案，對吧？我們有擔保的例子，它的取得成本非常高，但賠付率卻很低。我們有意外傷害和健康險（A&H），其收購成本低，整體成本也低，但賠付率高，農業方面的情況也類似。我想說的是，我們會再次調整我們的業績指引，但你知道，我認為在前三個季度，你會看到這種喜憂參半的變化帶來的收益。但顯然，考慮到農業的規模，以及這種規模如何影響收購成本與營運費用與損失率，我們會在新年伊始發布全年業績指引時再做討論，Tracy，在此之前，我認為我們並不想或不准備透露更多信息。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Thank you. This does conclude today's Q&A session. I would now like to turn the call back over to Kevin for closing remarks. Please go ahead, Kevin.

謝謝。今天的問答環節到此結束。現在我想把電話交還給凱文，請他做總結發言。請繼續，凱文。

Thanks, Lisa, and thanks everyone for your questions, for participating in our conference call and for your continued interest in and support of Skywards specialty. I'm available after the call to answer any additional questions you may have. We look forward to speaking with you again on our 4th quarter earnings call. Thank you and have a wonderful day.

謝謝 Lisa，也謝謝大家的提問，感謝大家參加我們的電話會議，感謝大家一直以來對 Skywards 專業領域的關注與支持。通話結束後，我仍可以回答您可能有的任何其他問題。我們期待在第四季財報電話會議上再次與您交流。謝謝，祝您有美好的一天。

This concludes today's program. You may all disconnect.

今天的節目到此結束。你們可以斷開連結了。