Companhia Siderurgica Nacional SA (SID) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. At this time, we would like to welcome everyone to CSN's conference call to present results for the first quarter '25. Joining us today are the company's executive officers. We would like to inform you that this event is being recorded (Operator Instructions) You can access this webcast through the site, csn.com.br/ir (sic - ri.csn.com.br/en/), where the presentation is also available.

女士們、先生們，早安。現在，我們歡迎大家參加 CSN 的電話會議，介紹 2025 年第一季的業績。今天與我們一起參加的是公司的執行官。我們想通知您，此活動正在錄製（操作員指示）您可以透過網站 csn.com.br/ir（原文如此 - ri.csn.com.br/en/）存取此網路廣播，該網站還提供簡報。

There will be a replay service for this call on the website. Before proceeding, we would like to state that some of the forward-looking payments made herein are mere expectations or trends based on current assumptions and opinions of the company management. Future results, performance and events may differ materially from those expressed herein as they do not constitute projection.

網站上將提供本次通話的重播服務。在繼續之前，我們想聲明，本文中做出的一些前瞻性付款僅僅是基於公司管理層當前的假設和意見的預期或趨勢。未來的結果、表現和事件可能與本文所表達的結果、表現和事件有重大差異，因為它們不構成預測。

In fact, actual results, performance, or events might differ materially from those expressed or implied as a result of several factors, general and economic conditions in Brazil and other countries, interest rate and exchange rate levels, protection measures in the US, Brazil and other countries, change in laws and regulations and general competitive factors at global, regional, or national basis.

事實上，由於多種因素，實際結果、表現或事件可能與明示或暗示的結果、表現或事件存在重大差異，這些因素包括巴西和其他國家的一般經濟狀況、利率和匯率水平、美國、巴西和其他國家的保護措施、法律法規的變化以及全球、地區或國家層面的一般競爭因素。

We would like to turn the floor over to Mr. Rabello, the CFO and IRO, who will present the highlight for CSN the period. You may proceed, Mr. Rabello.

我們想把發言權交給財務長兼 IRO Rabello 先生，他將介紹 CSN 這段時期的亮點。您可以繼續，拉貝洛先生。

Good morning, everybody. It's a pleasure to speak about CSN results for the first quarter '25. We begin on slide 2, showing you the main highlights of a quarter where, once again, we showed great resiliency attain an annual volume growth in all of the sectors. We show you the sound dynamism of the market and the operational evolution and efficiency of our operations. This commercial activity with an improvement in prices, especially in steel led to an increase of 28% in EBITDA this quarter, profitability 2.7 percentage points higher than the first quarter last year.

大家早安。我很高興談論 CSN 25 年第一季的業績。我們從幻燈片 2 開始，向您展示本季度的主要亮點，我們再次表現出強大的韌性，所有行業都實現了年銷量增長。我們向您展示市場的良好活力以及我們營運的演變和效率。這種商業活動加上價格上漲（尤其是鋼鐵價格上漲）導致本季 EBITDA 成長 28%，獲利能力比去年第一季高出 2.7 個百分點。

And the EBITDA improvement is important. For deleveraging, we substitute the weaker results we obtained last year and move towards our guidance. We also take advantage of the record cash we presented to pay part of the debt of the company, reducing the net debt by BRL3.6 billion. We got to the first quarter of '25 with a leverage of -- sorry, 3.33x.

EBITDA 的改善非常重要。對於去槓桿，我們用去年取得的較弱結果來替代，並朝著我們的指導方向邁進。我們也利用所呈現的創紀錄現金償還了公司的部分債務，減少了36億巴西雷亞爾的淨債務。到 25 年第一季度，我們的槓桿率為 - 抱歉，是 3.33 倍。

Now besides this advance, this quarter, we had a project finance for CEEE-G. That limits our position to financial risks. And as all companies do, we can remove this from our leverage calculation. So our leverage goes to 3.27 for the first quarter of '25.

除了這筆預付款之外，本季我們還為 CEEE-G 提供了專案融資。這限制了我們應對金融風險的能力。和所有公司一樣，我們可以將其從槓桿計算中刪除。因此，25 年第一季我們的槓桿率將達到 3.27。

In mining, we had a dryer period in the southeast of the regions, allowing for greater cargoes. And we had record sales for the period in the company for that period of the year. Another relevant highlight with a strong annual drop of the C1 cost, reaching $21 per ton compared to $23.6 vis-a-vis the same period last year. And because of efficiency and cost controls, these are the figures we have obtained this quarter. Now this operational improvement led to an EBITDA 26% higher than the first quarter '24, reaching BRL1.4 billion with a margin of 41%.

在採礦方面，東南部地區經歷了一段乾旱期，因此可以運送更多的貨物。我們公司那段時期的銷售額創下了歷史新高。另一個相關亮點是 C1 成本同比大幅下降，達到每噸 21 美元，而去年同期為每噸 23.6 美元。由於效率和成本控制，這些是我們本季獲得的數據。現在，這項營運改善使 EBITDA 比 24 年第一季高出 26%，達到 14 億巴西雷亞爾，利潤率為 41%。

In steel, another very strong quarter in terms of steel consumption in the domestic market. CSN took advantage of this dynamism obtaining sales 8% above the first quarter '24. Now more important than the sound commercial activity with the increase of 2.4% of prices during the period. There was an adjustment for flat steel at the beginning of the year, which was difficult because of the greater competition in the [loans] market.

就鋼鐵而言，本季國內市場鋼鐵消費又表現強勁。CSN 利用這種活力，實現 2024 年第一季銷售額成長 8%。現在比良好的商業活動更重要的是，在此期間價格上漲了 2.4%。年初對板材進行了調整，由於貸款市場競爭加劇，調整難度較高。

Now the stable cost of place allowed CSN to more than double EBITDA in the quarter. And of course, this is the right size to deliver the results and feel we go on to cement. And despite the pressure of interest rates and economy, the company is resilient with new launches. We were able to beat up sales by 6.2% at the beginning of the year as we had a lower price because of the seasonality of the year and very strong competition. The annual growth of revenue was at 2.1%, and the EBITDA margin reached 22% with the cost verified during the period.

目前，穩定的場地成本使得 CSN 本季的 EBITDA 成長了一倍以上。當然，這是實現結果和感覺的正確尺寸，我們可以繼續鞏固。儘管面臨利率和經濟壓力，該公司仍透過推出新產品來維持韌性。由於季節性因素和激烈的競爭，我們的價格較低，因此年初我們的銷售額就比去年同期高出 6.2%。營收年增2.1%，EBITDA利潤率達22%，期內成本已核實。

Now we're sure that the seasonality in the second quarter will help us to attain the margins we historically had in the company. Finally, we end the highlights with an excellent news for logistics and energy. In logistics, an improvement in the higher shipments by rail mode leading to a 16% growth vis-a-vis the fourth quarter '24. And in energy, in the South and Southeast regions, we raised our EBITDA by more than 101% vis-a-vis the last quarter and in the annual comparison with 172%.

現在我們確信第二季的季節性將幫助我們實現公司歷史上的利潤率。最後，我們以物流和能源領域的利多消息結束精彩內容。在物流方面，鐵路運輸量的增加使得物流量較 2024 年第四季成長了 16%。在南部和東南地區的能源領域，我們的 EBITDA 與上一季相比成長了 101% 以上，與去年同期相比成長了 172%。

We go on to the next slide to present the EBITDA and EBITDA margin results for the third quarter. The drop in the results in the fourth quarter exclusively reflects the natural seasonality of business with negative effects of less commercial activity and the rainfall period. Despite all the bits, in the annual comparison, we have a strong growth of 28% in the period. EBITDA with 300 basis points higher, reflecting the growth of commercial activity that we saw throughout, an increase of prices in steel, and of course, better prices of paint.

我們繼續下一張投影片來展示第三季的 EBITDA 和 EBITDA 利潤率結果。第四季業績的下降完全反映了業務的自然季節性，商業活動減少和降雨期產生了負面影響。儘管存在種種問題，但與年度比較，我們在此期間實現了 28% 的強勁增長。EBITDA 成長了 300 個基點，反映了我們所看到的商業活動的成長、鋼鐵價格的上漲，當然還有油漆價格的上漲。

On slide number 4, we will share with you our investments for the period. You can see very strong seasonality vis-a-vis the previous period with less use of CapEx. We tend to concentrate our investments in the second half of the year. On the other hand, when we compare this with the first quarter of '24, there is a strong growth in the P15 expansion projects after the infrastructure work and disbursement due to maintenance of blast furnace to in general modernization of the UPV operation. In 2025, most of the investments will be in efficiency and expand.

在第四張投影片上，我們將與大家分享我們這段時間的投資。您可以看到，與前一時期相比，季節性非常強烈，資本支出的使用較少。我們的投資傾向集中在下半年。另一方面，當我們將其與 24 年第一季進行比較時，P15 擴建項目在基礎設施工程和高爐維護支出以及 UPV 運營的整體現代化之後實現了強勁增長。2025年，大部分投資將用於提高效率和擴張。

We now go on to slide number 5. Let's speak about net working capital. There was a reduction because of accounts receivable because of the seasonality, less commercial activity, followed by a lower volume of inventories and suppliers. On the following slide, we present to you our adjusted cash flow that was negative by BRL173 million, a figure significantly better than the BRL1.7 billion of the fourth quarter '24. Despite the strong EBITDA we presented adjusted cash flow is being pressured by high financial expenses and positive cash generation. Well, this is the impact that the higher interest rates have in Brazil and on investments in the country. In the next slide, we show you our indebtedness and leverage and the behavior of our debt throughout the quarter.

我們現在看第 5 張投影片。讓我們來談談淨營運資本。由於季節性因素、商業活動減少以及庫存和供應商數量減少，應收帳款減少。在下面的幻燈片中，我們向您展示了我們的調整後現金流為負 1.73 億巴西雷亞爾，這一數字明顯優於 2024 年第四季的 17 億巴西雷亞爾。儘管我們呈現的 EBITDA 強勁，但調整後的現金流正受到高財務費用和正現金產生的壓力。這就是巴西利率上升以及對該國投資的影響。在下一張投影片中，我們將向您展示我們的負債和槓桿比率以及整個季度的債務行為。

To the left, the main message is a strong reduction in leverage presented in this quarter with the indicator going from 3.49x at the end of '24, to the present-day level of 3.23x. Now there was a great deal of effort to does net debt by BRL3.6 billion, and we use part of our cash to pay our debt. Now everything we presented in the previous cycle, so contributed to this performance we're committed in reducing the levels of indebtedness in the company, and we make (inaudible) and projects to speed up this agenda. I have already mentioned that the structuring of a finance project for CEEE-G that will limit our exposure to financial risks. So cash and EBITDA, if we exclude CEEE-G from leverage, the calculation, therefore, will stand 3.33x.

左側主要訊息是本季槓桿率大幅下降，指標從2024年底的3.49倍降至目前的3.23倍。目前，我們付出了巨大努力，將淨債務減少了36億雷亞爾，並使用部分現金償還債務。現在，我們在上一周期中提出的所有內容都對這一表現做出了貢獻，我們致力於降低公司的負債水平，並且我們制定（聽不清楚）和專案來加快這一議程。我已經提到，為中東歐國家集團建立一個融資項目將限制我們面臨的金融風險。因此，如果我們將 CEEE-G 從槓桿中排除，現金和 EBITDA 將為 3.33 倍。

Now we bring about liquidity for the consolidated figures. By doing this, we're also evolving in our infrastructure projects that are very material for our deleveraging journey besides other benefits. Now we have natural deleveraging ahead of us as we advance in our operational enhancement process, we have better results this year. In this first quarter, we were able to comply with our goals, and we are confident that no matter how difficult the macroeconomic environment. We do have space to continue evolving and to the right, you see that the net debt has not undergone considerable differences. We now go on to slide number 8.

現在我們為合併資料帶來流動性。透過這樣做，我們的基礎設施項目也在不斷發展，除了其他好處之外，這對我們的去槓桿進程也至關重要。現在，隨著我們營運改善過程的推進，我們面前有自然的去槓桿，今年我們取得了更好的業績。今年第一季度，我們能夠完成目標，而且我們有信心，無論宏觀經濟環境多麼困難。我們確實有繼續發展的空間，在右邊，你會看到淨債務並沒有顯著的差異。我們現在看第 8 張投影片。

And you can see that we're in a comfortable position in terms of our long-term position with sufficient cash to comply with our obligations in the next three years. We are working actively in lengthening our amortization level and among the main movement this quarter, we had the third debenture issuance for CEEE-G and BRL1.2 billion for a total term of 17 years. We also refinanced some bilateral agreements with a lengthening about two, three years. with a reduction of 5.6% for the year 2025. With this, we conclude the consolidated results and now go on to analyze the segment.

您可以看到，就長期狀況而言，我們的狀況良好，擁有足夠的現金來履行未來三年的義務。我們正在積極努力延長攤銷水平，本季的主要舉措之一是為 CEEE-G 發行第三次債券，總額為 12 億巴西雷亞爾，期限為 17 年。我們也對一些雙邊協議進行了再融資，將期限延長了大約兩到三年，到2025年則減少了5.6%。至此，我們得出了合併結果，現在繼續分析該部分。

On slide number 10, you see the sales volume for steel even with a negative seasonality that is characteristic at the beginning of the year. The domestic market is still very hot. We have a difference of 5.3% vis-a-vis the first quarter '24. We had an increase of 5.3% in sales in the period, showing how assertive our commercial strategy is. Results are ever more important when we consider the pressure and the unloyal competition from imported products that are truly challenging local producers.

在第 10 張投影片上，您可以看到，即使年初出現典型的負面季節性，鋼鐵的銷售量仍然很高。國內市場依然十分熱門。與 24 年第一季相比，差距為 5.3%。我們在此期間的銷售額成長了 5.3%，這表明我們的商業策略非常自信。當我們考慮到進口產品對本地生產商造成的真正挑戰的壓力和不忠誠的競爭時，結果就顯得尤為重要。

When we look at the following slide of steel production, the drop in the quarter-on-quarter annual production is due to the maintenance of live furnaces 2. It did not have an impact on the cost of play produce or the performance per ton. To the right on the slide, we can see that the situation remains stable in the period and performance per tonne is almost double of what we saw in the first quarter of '24. And once again, this highlights the efficiency of the company after the efforts to enhance the operation of steel. We go on to the financial performance for Steel on slide number 12.

當我們看下面的鋼鐵產量幻燈片時，我們發現季度環比年產量的下降是由於 2 號爐的維護。它不會對遊戲產品的成本或每噸的性能產生影響。在幻燈片的右側，我們可以看到該期間的情況保持穩定，每噸的性能幾乎是 24 年第一季的兩倍。這也再一次凸顯了公司在努力提升鋼鐵營運效率後的表現。我們繼續在第 12 張幻燈片上討論鋼鐵業的財務表現。

We see an evolution in EBITDA. Revenues and price with better prices being practiced since the end of 2023. This is due to the some demand of the Brazilian market, and there were price adjustments in January contributing to EBITDA recovery for the quarter. We obtained more than double of the EBITDA presented in the same period last year. And this is the right path to deliver even more sound results throughout 2025.

我們看到了 EBITDA 的演進。自2023年底起，收入和價格將實施更優惠的價格。這是由於巴西市場有一定需求，且1月價格調整推動了本季EBITDA的回升。我們獲得的 EBITDA 是去年同期的兩倍多。這是在 2025 年取得更多良好成果的正確道路。

We now go on to speak about mining. On slide number 14, we have the results of production and sales. We have an annual growth of almost 12% in production and 5.4% higher in terms of sales volume. Now this performance was possible, thanks to a drier period of serve and an increase of efficiency in the operation with a higher movement of cargo and logistic business highest volume of sales a new record for the company for the period. This reflects a lower volume of purchases for the period while sales were impacted by seasonality.

我們現在繼續談論採礦。在第 14 張投影片上，我們展示了生產和銷售的結果。我們的產量每年增長近12％，銷售量增長5.4％。現在，這項業績之所以能夠實現，要歸功於服務期較為乾燥、營運效率提高、貨物運輸量增加以及物流業務的最高銷售量，創下了公司該時期的新紀錄。這反映出該時期的購買量較低，而銷售則受到季節性的影響。

Regarding the financial performance on slide 15. The first highlight is the annual growth of 21.6% in net revenue reflecting an operational improvement and a more devalued exchange rate, prior stability existed during the period. These prices are quite high, offering the segment down results and the greater volume of sales with [cable] prices and lower volumes led to a growth of 26% in EBITDA, with a 41% margin. In the following slide, we have adjusted EBITDA for the first quarter compared to the previous quarter. the combination of marginally higher prices with lower freight costs and the improvement in the mix was offset by the seasonality in the period with lower volumes and higher purchasing costs.

關於投影片 15 上的財務表現。第一個亮點是淨收入年增 21.6%，這反映了營運的改善和匯率的進一步貶值，此前的匯率在此期間保持穩定。這些價格相當高，導致該部門業績下降，而有線價格上漲導致銷售量增加、銷量下降，導致 EBITDA 成長 26%，利潤率達到 41%。在下面的幻燈片中，我們調整了第一季與上一季相比的 EBITDA。價格略有上漲、運費降低以及產品組合改善的結合被該時期銷量較低和採購成本較高的季節性因素所抵消。

Let's now analyze cement on slide 18 with the sales volumes. Once again, we continue see a sound demand in the Brazilian market despite the high interest rate for the My House, My Home program, helping us to sell more cement we were able to take advantage of our logistic network to capture new margins and the 6% growth in sales volume showed that this was the right strategy. Now when we compare this with the previous quarter, we had a drop of only 1 point percent in a period that is seasonally weaker with rainfall and vacations at the beginning of the year. In the following slide, the financial performance for the segment. The seasonality of the period, you'll see the performance of net revenue and the growth of 21.9% shows the dynamic of lower prices, and this reflects the competitive environment and a lower fixed cost dilution and higher raw material costs.

現在讓我們分析投影片 18 上的水泥銷量。再次，儘管「我的房子，我的家」計劃的利率很高，但我們仍然看到巴西市場需求旺盛，這有助於我們銷售更多的水泥，我們能夠利用我們的物流網絡來獲取新的利潤，而 6% 的銷售量增長表明這是正確的策略。現在，當我們將此與上一季進行比較時，我們會發現，在年初降雨和假期較多的季節性較弱時期，我們的銷售額僅下降了 1%。下面的幻燈片展示了該部門的財務表現。受季節性影響，您會看到淨收入的表現，21.9% 的成長顯示了價格下降的動態，這反映了競爭環境、較低的固定成本稀釋和較高的原材料成本。

Second quarter onwards will be a good lever to improve the results similar to the levels we had last year. And of course, there will be an impact on the company's cash flow. Finally I would now like to go on to the Logistics segment on slide 21, where we have the main financial indicators. Now railroads had a higher movements of shipments and broke with a negative seasonality for the period. So we had evolution in billings and allowing the EBITDA to reach 46.1% margin.

從第二季開始，我們將會把業績提高到與去年類似的水平。當然，這會對公司的現金流產生影響。最後，我想繼續講投影片 21 上的物流部分，其中有主要的財務指標。目前，鐵路貨運量增加，打破了該時期的負面季節性。因此，我們的帳單有所改進，EBITDA 利潤率達到了 46.1%。

With this, I end the presentation on the segment, and I invite Helena Guerra to present the highlights for ESG performance.

至此，我結束了本部分的演講，並邀請 Helena Guerra 介紹 ESG 績效的亮點。

Good morning, everybody. Let's be -- while we began 2025 and very enthusiastically and with the certainty that we're ready for another year of consistent advance in our ESG journey. We are consolidating our health and safety front, we have reduced the accident rate, and we want to reduce the occurrence of events that have the potential for fatality. This quarter, we had a reduction of 23% when compared to the same period in '24. We began the year maintaining our performance in decarbonization and the strategy is focused on projects that increase our operational efficiency, reduce costs and reduce our CO2 emission.

大家早安。讓我們——當我們開始 2025 年時，我們充滿熱情，並且確信我們已經準備好在 ESG 旅程中繼續不斷前進的另一年。我們正在鞏固我們的健康和安全陣線，我們已經降低了事故率，我們希望減少可能造成致命事件的發生。本季度，與 24 年同期相比，我們減少了 23%。今年年初，我們維持了脫碳的業績，策略重點是提高營運效率、降低成本和減少二氧化碳排放的項目。

We reduced emissions in all the segments in mining 9%, in cement that corresponds to 40% of emissions. We had a reduction of 2% and we had the [Falcao Bauer] technological fuel once again, [CB3] for the cement that is produced in (inaudible). In steel, we also had a reduction of 8% when compared to our target of 18%. In social and diversity, we continue on with our commitment. This is a conviction, as I said in the previous call, quite for a more diverse company it's also associated for that question, efficiency.

我們將採礦業所有環節的排放量減少了 9%，水泥業的排放量減少了 40%。我們減少了 2%，並且我們再次使用了 [Falcao Bauer] 技術燃料 [CB3]，用於在（聽不清楚）。在鋼鐵方面，與 18% 的目標相比，我們的產量也減少了 8%。在社會和多樣性方面，我們繼續履行我們的承諾。這是一種信念，正如我在上次電話會議中所說的那樣，對於一個更加多元化的公司來說，它也與效率問題有關。

We doubled the number of women 1 year before, reaching almost 27% of our labor force in the CSN group. Compared with the same quarter last year, we have 350 women more as part of our goal, an increase of 75% is female representation since we set forth the goal in 2020. We had the fourth meeting of ESG ambassadors this quarter. The focus was to train our personnel in terms of climate risks and security risks. The goal was to speak about risk control in the companies to capture opportunities and synergies and create action plans to mitigate the risk and create a reporting system according to international standards to be able to disclose financial information and others relating to climate and security.

一年前，我們的女性員工數量增加了一倍，佔 CSN 集團勞動力的近 27%。與去年同期相比，我們的目標中女性人數增加了 350 人，自 2020 年制定目標以來，女性代表人數增加了 75%。本季我們召開了第四次 ESG 大使會議。重點是針對氣候風險和安全風險對我們的人員進行培訓。目標是討論公司的風險控制，以抓住機會和協同效應，制定行動計劃來降低風險，並根據國際標準建立報告系統，以便能夠披露財務資訊以及與氣候和安全相關的其他資訊。

And finally, we joined efforts. We are preparing our integrated report that was published in April 2025. We have two reporting true for CSN and CSN Mining, we have details on our practice management, sustainability. Very well. That is my presentation.

最後，我們共同努力。我們正在準備綜合報告，預計 2025 年 4 月發布。我們有兩份關於 CSN 和 CSN Mining 的報告，其中包含有關實踐管理和永續性的詳細資訊。很好。我的演講就是這樣。

We're just beginning the year. We want this year to have more security, sustainability innovation, and we hope to be able to share our achievements. Thank you very much for your attention.

我們才剛開始新的一年。我們希望今年能有更多安全、永續的創新，並希望能夠分享我們的成就。非常感謝您的關注。

Thank you, Helena. I will now turn the floor over to our CEO, Mr. Benjamin Steinbruch.

謝謝你，海倫娜。現在我將把發言權交給我們的執行長本傑明·斯坦布魯赫先生。

I would like to meet everybody. Have a very good day, and I thank you for your attendance at the CSN call. I would like to mention some factors here. that were very positive for the changes that we have implemented in the company as of the last quarter of 2024. We have shown you concrete results.

我很想和大家見面。祝您有愉快的一天，感謝您參加 CSN 電話會議。我想在這裡提到一些因素。這些因素對於我們自 2024 年最後一個季度以來在公司實施的變革非常有利。我們已經向您展示了具體的成果。

You can observe that in the four business segments, we are doing much better in terms of mining production and sales in steel. We have also improved the production and delivery despite the maintenance we carried out in blast furnace 2 in cement notwithstanding the rainy period. We also had a very good behavior with an increase in production and an increase in sales volume. And in logistics and energy which are minor businesses. We also saw a very positive performance in terms of their results.

你可以觀察到，在四大業務板塊中，我們在採礦生產和鋼鐵銷售方面做得更好。儘管我們在水泥廠 2 號高爐上進行了維護，並且正值雨季，但我們仍提高了生產和交付率。我們的業績也非常好，產量增加了，銷售量也增加了。物流和能源等都是小生意。我們也看到他們的業績表現非常正面。

In the steel segment, we have a steel price that is constantly improving despite the fact that we have an extremely difficult market because of the import. This situation is quite observed despite the efforts we have deployed in terms of dialogue with the government and despite the government efforts based on our conversations and although they understand the situation and would like to help, despite this imported steel volumes continue to grow month after month, making competition practically impossible because of the subsidized prices without any effective limitation to amount. We're deploying all possible efforts to diversify products to diversify our sales, diversify the type of clients so that we can sell our production in the best way possible. This is a very restructured and [peanut lighting] system, the imports without control that we see in steel. And in truth, nobody can survive this.

在鋼鐵領域，儘管由於進口原因我們的市場極其困難，但鋼鐵價格仍在不斷上漲。儘管我們已盡一切努力與政府對話，儘管政府根據我們的談話也做出了努力，儘管他們理解情況並願意提供幫助，但這種情況仍然很明顯，但進口鋼材量卻逐月增長，由於補貼價格而沒有對數量進行任何有效限制，競爭實際上是不可能的。我們正在盡一切可能實現產品多樣化、銷售多樣化、客戶類型多樣化，以便我們能夠以最佳方式銷售我們的產品。這是一個高度重組和[花生照明]系統，我們看到鋼鐵進口不受控制。事實上，沒有人能夠倖免於難。

There is no country that will be able to survive attack -- speculative and subsidized tack on any product. And we are suffering from this severely. We have disorganized imports that end up being lethal instruments in any country. We understand the position of the government to negotiate with other countries. We support that stance, but it's taking too long to have effective measures for the control of the entry of imported products.

沒有一個國家能夠在任何產品遭受投機和補貼攻擊的情況下生存。我們正遭受嚴重的困擾。我們的進口商品雜亂無章，最終對任何國家來說都是一種致命武器。我們理解政府與其他國家談判的立場。我們支持這一立場，但對進口產品入境的控制有效措施還需時太久。

But we're doing what we can do. We're working based on cost. We're working on the productivity of our equipment. Also with the maintenance we carried out in the black furnace too, we would like to decrease the impact to an enhancement in productivity and use of our equipment because of our product diversification is the best and the largest steel company in Brazil in terms of diversification and quality of products. This is a secret that we hope to be able to produce more, to produce better.

但我們正在做我們能做的事情。我們根據成本進行工作。我們正在努力提高設備的生產力。此外，我們也對黑爐進行了維護，我們希望減少對提高生產率和設備使用率的影響，因為我們的產品多樣化是巴西在產品多樣化和品質方面最好和最大的鋼鐵公司。這是一個秘密，我們希望能夠生產更多，生產更好。

And the price increases with the specific quality of each product are a fact. We're working arduously in terms of added value and diversification, so as to escape this problem of imports. There is no country we can export to at this point in time. Everything has been blocked because of the new tariffs and rates that all countries have set forth. And this is something that we harp on very much.

而且價格隨著每種產品的具體品質而上漲是事實。我們正在努力提高附加價值和多樣化，以擺脫進口問題。目前我們還沒有可以出口到的國家。由於各國制定了新的關稅和稅率，一切都受阻了。這是我們非常重視的一點。

Brazil is a country that is lagging behind in terms of protective measures against this disorganized imports. We hope that what is being done in steel will present results. We had an EBITDA that we had not expected in the market, but it's the result of what we are doing working arduously, reducing cost and adding value to our production, all of this will go head on against this unloyal competition. Now for the first time, we are able to show you better results in our steel plan. In terms of mining, we had very good results.

巴西是針對這種無序進口的保護措施較為落後的國家。我們希望鋼鐵業所做的努力能夠取得成果。我們的 EBITDA 超越了市場的預期，但這是我們努力工作、降低成本和增加產品價值的結果，所有這些都將與不忠誠的競爭對手正面交鋒。現在，我們第一次能夠向您展示我們的鋼鐵計劃的更好結果。在採礦方面，我們取得了非常好的成績。

They were presented. We increased our own production. We reduced third-party purchases, and we were able to ship record amounts with highly controlled cost. Our range is 21.5% to 23%. We performed well with a cost of $21 per ton.

他們被介紹了。我們增加了自己的產量。我們減少了第三方採購，並且能夠以高度可控的成本運送創紀錄數量的貨物。我們的範圍是 21.5% 到 23%。我們的業績表現良好，成本為每噸 21 美元。

And we can also decrease the cost of freight. So this signals something positive. In terms of production volume and cost. And we look carefully at China. Well, China belongs to the Chinese, but based on what they are showing, based on what they are seeing in terms of the recovery of the Chinese economy, all of this will begin with civil construction and infrastructure.

而且我們還可以降低運費。所以這預示著一些正面的訊號。從產量和成本來看。我們仔細觀察中國。嗯，中國是屬於中國人的，但根據他們所展示的情況，根據他們所看到的中國經濟復甦的情況，所有這一切都將從土木工程和基礎設施建設開始。

Their inventories are low, and we believe therefore that their steel market also behaved above what was expected the price is at [110]. The price remain more at the level of [100]. So we're performing as expected, perhaps somewhat better than the market expected when it comes to price. In the case of cement, although the first quarter is a very rainy period we had a very good production. So the prices are resilient still.

他們的庫存很低，因此我們認為他們的鋼鐵市場表現也高於預期，價格目前[110]。價格仍保持在[100]。因此，我們的表現符合預期，就價格而言，可能比市場預期的要好一些。就水泥而言，儘管第一季雨水較多，但我們的產量仍然很好。因此價格仍然具有彈性。

We worked with almost half of the price of cement vis-a-vis the United States as a reference $60 here and $120 in the USA. We're being competitive because we have a very tight market in that sense. Our commitment and what we are doing, notwithstanding all the difficulties in this insane financial market of Brazil, where it is impossible to obtain good results, companies that want to grow, companies that want to invest are not allowed to do so because of the rather inexplicable situation that hampers the business environment an environment that would be expected for a country like Brazil. If we don't rapidly solve this distortion that is impacting costs and they bring only one sector, which is the financial sector, we will see the destruction of all other segments because it is impossible to work with real interest rates at the level at which they are. We hope there will be a rapid intervention from the government to put in order the distortion of the interest rate.

我們參考的水泥價格幾乎是美國的一半，這裡是 60 美元，美國是 120 美元。我們之所以具有競爭力，是因為從這個意義上來說，我們的市場非常緊張。我們的承諾和我們正在做的事情，儘管巴西這個瘋狂的金融市場存在著種種困難，我們不可能取得好的結果，那些想要發展、想要投資的公司卻無法這樣做，因為這種難以解釋的情況阻礙了商業環境，而這種環境對於像巴西這樣的國家來說是意料之中的。如果我們不能迅速解決這種影響成本的扭曲，而它們只影響一個部門，即金融部門，我們將看到所有其他部門的崩潰，因為在目前的水平上，實際利率是不可能運作的。我們希望政府能夠迅速介入，並糾正利率扭曲現象。

There will be difficulties in terms of investment and difficulty in the continuity of operations, and this will lead to unemployment. We're concerned with the continuity of this very high level of interest rates impacting the world of production and economy. Despite this, we were able to obtain good deleverage, 3.44x to 3.33x. And if we consider the operation of CEEE-G, once again, this leverage will be reduced to 3.27%. We are on survival mode because working with those high interest rates is impossible.

投資困難，經營難以持續，造成失業。我們擔心這種極高的利率水準會持續影響生產和經濟。儘管如此，我們仍然實現了良好的去槓桿率，從3.44倍降至3.33倍。如果再考慮CEEE-G的運營，槓桿率將再次降至3.27%。我們處於生存模式，因為在如此高的利率下工作是不可能的。

If we consider what we pay for in terms of taxes plus the depreciation of our business and no margins will make investments possible. And the investments are necessary for the purchase of equipment and to, of course, focus on ESG. And we also depend on new equipment. And of course, we all have to work in that direction. Well, CSN has made incredible efforts.

如果我們考慮我們所支付的稅款加上業務的折舊，並且沒有利潤，那麼投資就不可能。這些投資對於購買設備是必要的，當然，也需要關注 ESG。而且我們還依賴新設備。當然，我們都必須朝著這個方向努力。嗯，CSN 做出了令人難以置信的努力。

It has also presented good results. Seasonally, the first quarter tends to be weaker. Despite this, we had an EBITDA of BRL2.5 billion. And I think this is a demonstration of the effort, the determination and the will of all of our associates to survive this her worth moment and to survive at any cost throughout the year 2025. This is what I wanted to share with you.

也取得了良好的效果。從季節性來看，第一季趨於疲軟。儘管如此，我們的 EBITDA 仍達到 25 億巴西雷亞爾。我認為，這體現了我們全體同事度過這寶貴時刻、不惜一切代價度過 2025 年的努力、決心和意志。這就是我想與你們分享的。

Thank you very much. And let us now open the floor for questions and answers.

非常感謝。現在讓我們開始提問和解答。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Sasson, Itaú BBA.

（操作員說明）Daniel Sasson，Itañ BBA。

My first question is for Marco about leverage. We saw your net debt falling this quarter you are confident that you will retail leverage below 3 at the end of the year. Marco, if you could explain to us a lever with what you would be comfortable looking at 2026, 2027, where there will be an acceleration in terms of your CapEx to get to 65 million kinds of protection. Perhaps this will help us to model the evolution of your leverage. My second question for [Martine].

我的第一個問題是關於槓桿的，想問馬可。我們看到本季度您的淨債務有所下降，您有信心在年底將零售槓桿率降至 3 以下。馬可，如果您可以向我們解釋一下，在 2026 年、2027 年，您會覺得您的資本支出會加速增長，以達到 6500 萬種保護。也許這將有助於我們模擬您的槓桿的演變。我的第二個問題是[馬丁]。

Benjamin just referred to the difficult environment because of this and loyal Chinese imports and this was like a bucket of cold water from the government. Although they accepted the anti dumping because they did not implement counter measures you speak about the competitive scenario at present in light of the lack of change in the government stands for the short term. What will this translate into when it comes to prices in the domestic market?

本傑明剛才提到了由於這個原因以及忠誠的中國進口商帶來的艱難環境，這就像政府潑了一盆冷水。儘管他們接受了反傾銷，因為他們沒有實施反制措施，但您談論的是目前的競爭形勢，因為政府立場缺乏變化，這只是短期現象。這對於國內市場的價格會產生什麼影響？

Thank you very much. Daniel, thank you for your questions. Well, obviously, we have changed the guidance for '26, '27. But our outlook -- yes, we do manage CapEx in the company in a very certain critical way, focusing on projects that are truly important for the company transformation, notably for steel and mining with folk of other important projects for steel. So that steel can once again recover is spending.

非常感謝。丹尼爾，謝謝你的提問。嗯，顯然我們已經改變了 26 年、27 年的指導方針。但我們的展望——是的，我們確實以非常關鍵的方式管理公司的資本支出，專注於對公司轉型真正重要的項目，特別是鋼鐵和採礦以及其他重要的鋼鐵項目。從而使鋼鐵能夠再次恢復支出。

These are projects that we have to implement throughout the year being very cautious in terms of our investments because of the interest rates mentioned in the release and by the company CEO. We have to focus on projects with better returns and the best funding lines to support the company deleveraging. Of course, continue to focus on the important projects. When I look to '26, '27 without a guidance for EBITDA, cash positioning or cash generated much higher than it was in 2024. So the CapEx for the year, the interest rate for the year and the payment of income tax derail us a bit from our cash flow.

我們必須全年實施這些項目，並且由於新聞稿和公司執行長提到的利率，我們在投資方面必須非常謹慎。我們要專注於報酬率更高、融資管道更優的項目，支持公司去槓桿。當然，繼續關注重要項目。當我展望 2026 年和 2027 年時，沒有 EBITDA 指引，現金部位或現金產生量遠高於 2024 年。因此，年度資本支出、年度利率和所得稅的支付使我們的現金流量有點偏離。

An important project that we should recall is the infrastructure project that we referred to on CSN Day. And at the last call, now this project will be transformational in terms of the leverage of the company. It's not the only benefit of the project. There are other important benefits, but it will represent a change. And at the end of the year, we should have this project impacting the figures of the company for formal guidance to have leverage below 3x.

我們應該記住的一個重要項目是我們在 CSN 日提到的基礎設施項目。最後，這個計畫將對公司的槓桿作用產生變革性的影響。這並不是該項目的唯一好處。還有其他重要的好處，但它將代表一種改變。到今年年底，我們應該讓這個專案對公司的數據產生影響，以便正式指導公司將槓桿率控制在 3 倍以下。

Well, don't count on that number. It hasn't been considered as part of our figures. It's difficult for me to tell you which will be the leverage at the end of 2026, '27 which would be a comfortable level because of the operational level, we would like to attain. What I can say very commonly is for the guidance to be below 3x, we wouldn't work with infrastructure. And in the next two years, we should always be below 3x.

好吧，不要指望這個數字。它尚未被視為我們數據的一部分。我很難告訴你 2026 年或 2027 年底的槓桿率是多少，這將是一個舒適的水平，因為我們希望達到營運水平。我可以很普遍地說的是，如果指導值低於 3 倍，我們就不會與基礎設施合作。在接下來的兩年裡，我們的成長率應該始終低於 3 倍。

The more we get closer to lower numbers, although this may impact our investment grade. It doesn't depend only on the company. It depends on the country. We are going to do this because a company project, of course, and our strategy is to deleverage to the lowest levels possible. Besides the infrastructure and projects in the steel segment we will have other significant needs in 2027 (inaudible) 15 coming into operation with another 15 million tons of high-grade material and that (inaudible) that will enter fully into operation.

我們越接近較低的數字，儘管這可能會影響我們的投資等級。這不僅僅取決於公司。這取決於國家。我們這樣做當然是因為這是一個公司項目，我們的策略是將槓桿率降至盡可能低的水平。除了鋼鐵業的基礎設施和項目之外，我們在 2027 年還有其他重要需求（聽不清楚）15 將投入運營，另外還有 1500 萬噸高級材料，並且（聽不清楚）將全面投入運營。

Without giving you precise figures, I hope to have given you a good view of what we expect in '26 and '27.

雖然沒有給出精確的數字，但我希望能讓您很好地了解我們對 26 年和 27 年的預期。

Thank you, Marco. Thanks again for the question, Daniel. As always, I would like to share with you what is happening and how we are looking as we go forward. Something important that Benjamin mentioned simply to underscore this in the first quarter of '25. And the report sales that it was a small.

謝謝你，馬可。再次感謝您的提問，丹尼爾。像往常一樣，我想與大家分享正在發生的事情以及我們對未來的展望。本傑明在 25 年第一季提到了一些重要的事情，只是為了強調這一點。報告顯示銷售額很小。

In the first quarter, if you look at this carefully, we grew the price of long steel by 3.2%. It's the only steel mill in Brazil, the only one in Brazil that was able to capture a price increase. We also had to give a discount of minus 5% in long scale because of the stronger competition in that market. Now if you imagine the business environment imports, which in the case of CSN, reference to 40% in (inaudible) product, 30% in tin plate and 20% in painted steel. I think we did very well.

第一季度，如果你仔細觀察，長材價格上漲了3.2%。這是巴西唯一一家鋼鐵廠，也是巴西唯一一家能夠實現價格上漲的鋼鐵廠。由於該市場的競爭更加激烈，我們還必須給予長期-5%的折扣。現在，如果您想像商業環境進口，就 CSN 的情況而言，指的是 40% 的（聽不清楚）產品、30% 的鍍錫鋼板和 20% 的彩塗鋼板。我認為我們做得很好。

We increased diversification. Now this pillar, we have a relatively strong demand in the last quarter '24 -- in the first quarter despite the high interest rate and the record of imported materials, the reach of 27%. Besides the Trump effect, we're doing our homework in terms of cost of operation, and we're trying to be actors in the market, commercial lease. In the first quarter, the price operating with a single blast furnace led us to have a stable lab price and the margin is nothing to neglect. It's an 8% margin, $75 per ton.

我們增強了多樣化。現在，這一支柱在 24 年最後一個季度有相對強勁的需求——儘管利率很高且進口材料創歷史新高，但第一季的需求仍達到了 27%。除了川普效應之外，我們還在做好營運成本的準備，並試圖成為商業租賃市場的參與者。第一季單爐營運的價格使得我們實驗室價格比較穩定，利潤空間也不小。利潤率為 8%，即每噸 75 美元。

So within that scenario that was mentioned here, I think we're doing quite well. When we speak about China, and I'm being practical, I'm speaking about imported material. I'm not going to repeat what we know. What is happening in China is very simple. There is no civil construction.

因此，就這裡提到的情景而言，我認為我們做得很好。當我們談論中國時，我實際談論的是進口材料。我不會重複我們所知道的事。中國發生的事情非常簡單。沒有土建施工。

The other sectors are doing relatively well, but they have a level of export of BRL90 million to BRL100 million. There's nothing to do there. What is worse and what people have not perceived is that the largest importing countries from China are Vietnam, Korea, European Union, Saudi Arabia and Brazil in the fixed play. So we're speaking of the following here. Vietnam buys 1,200,000 tons for the first quarter of this year.

其他產業表現相對較好，但出口額在9,000萬至1億雷亞爾之間。那裡沒什麼好做的。更糟的是，人們沒有意識到的是，在固定匯率制度下，中國最大的進口國是越南、韓國、歐盟、沙烏地阿拉伯和巴西。因此我們在這裡討論以下內容。越南今年第一季購買了120萬噸。

What's going to happen here? What can happen and this is the great fear of the Trump government circumvention. So in a short while, you could be importing something from Korea and Vietnam, but the source will be China. Now this is an enormous problem. Something that needs to be discussed in the negotiation with the USA.

這裡將會發生什麼事？會發生什麼事呢？這就是川普政府規避政策的巨大擔憂。因此，不久之後，您可能會從韓國和越南進口一些東西，但來源仍是中國。現在這是一個巨大的問題。這是在與美國談判時需要討論的事情。

In terms of imports, this is my belief. The government and I have never been to Brazil so much as in the last three months. Myself, Benjamin, we have been extremely vocal with the government in terms of what they need to do. Now the government loves the process, but we don't see results. It is the truth.

就進口而言，這是我的信念。我和政府在過去三個月裡訪問了巴西這麼多次。我和班傑明一直非常積極地向政府反映他們需要做的事情。現在政府很喜歡這一進程，但我們看不到結果。這是事實。

And it's almost a responsible and import penetration of 27%. To think that imported material has a higher market share than CSN, I've never seen this in the 23 years in the company. So Daniel, I underscore this, and I'm going to add my voice to other colleagues to other plants. This is unsustainable situation, it has consequences, and we can't imagine that we're not going to end up in a bad spot because of what is happening. When we speak about the domestic market, what is happening.

這幾乎是負責任的，進口滲透率為 27%。進口材料的市佔率竟然比CSN還高，我在公司工作23年，從來沒見過這種情況。所以丹尼爾，我強調這一點，我將與其他工廠的同事一起表達我的看法。這種狀況是不可持續的，它會產生後果，我們無法想像我們不會因為正在發生的事情而陷入困境。當我們談論國內市場時，正在發生什麼。

Demand grew in the first quarter, approximately 7% in flat scale. I'm referring to apparent consumption, internal sales grew 1%. And at CSN, we had a minor drop. We focus on the mix, which is not ideal yet and we decided to increase price by 33.2%. This is a strategy we will have in the second quarter.

第一季需求成長，約 7%（持平）。我指的是表觀消費量，內部銷售額成長了1%。而在 CSN，我們的業績則略有下滑。我們關注的是產品組合，但目前還不理想，所以我們決定將價格提高 33.2%。這是我們在第二季將要實施的策略。

When you have operational excellence, you operate with last furnace 3, you buy less coke. You reduce purchases from third parties. You buy slab perhaps not coming from China and reinforce your own production. So this is a strategy that we will repeat in the second quarter. Everything that Benjamin said, imagining our cost will drop below [3,500].

當你擁有卓越的運營能力時，你使用最後的 3 號爐進行運營，你購買的焦炭就會減少。您減少從第三方的購買。您購買的板材可能不是來自中國，而是加強您自己的生產。因此，我們將在第二季重複這項策略。班傑明所說的一切，想像我們的成本將會下降到[3,500]

When you go to the market, the market is somewhat different in the third quarter. With the markets with assembly plants doing very well, they're a certain resumption in some markets, but markets that were more stationary like agricultural machines and machinery, they will maintain the growth of the domestic market this year, which is not bad. And the last point to speak about trade defense stills, another interesting point. This is not operating at all because we at CSN think that we could follow the rules of the World Trade Organization and work with anti-dumping instead of simply working with sanctions. We had antidumping for things and in place and we got to levels of 5% to 40%.

當你進入市場時，你會發現第三季的市場有些不同。由於組裝廠市場表現很好，有些市場出現了一定的復甦，但是像農機、機械等比較平穩的市場，今年國內市場還是會維持成長，這個還不錯。最後要說的是貿易防禦，這也是一個有趣的觀點。這根本行不通，因為我們 CSN 認為，我們可以遵守世界貿易組織的規則，採取反傾銷措施，而不是簡單地採取制裁措施。我們對產品實施了反傾銷，傾銷率達到了 5% 至 40%。

And nothing was said, and nothing will be done. The government is not going to do anything temporary. So for long periods of time, nothing will happen. What is also happening now, Daniel, is that the government will have to renew that co-led system that had good intention, it was in the right direction, but it had no intensity for implementation. The quote simply legitimated the imports carried out in 2022 and 2024.

什麼都沒說，什麼也不會做。政府不會採取任何臨時措施。因此在很長一段時間內，什麼事也不會發生。丹尼爾，現在發生的情況是，政府必須更新共同領導制度，制度的初衷是好的，方向也是正確的，但實施力度不足。該報價只是使 2022 年和 2024 年的進口合法化。

So the government will now announce the new quota system. And I have the hope that the government will apply 25% for a period, giving us breathing space and so that we can act better in the market. This is a business scenario and what you should understand as Benjamin mentioned, there are no experts exports now or there, you can't export anything. And in the United States, above and beyond the 25%, there's a countervailing duty that we're discussing. We're working with the people of the Department of Commerce at CSN.

因此政府現在將宣布新的配額制度。我希望政府能在一段時間內實施 25% 的稅率，給我們喘息的空間，以便我們能夠在市場上採取更好的行動。這是一個商業場景，正如本傑明所提到的，你應該明白，現在或那裡沒有專家出口，你不能出口任何東西。在美國，除了 25% 的稅率之外，我們還在討論反補貼稅。我們正在與 CSN 的商務部人員合作。

There is no way out for galvanized products. So the great opportunity we see in the American market, and we're going to make the most of it is the fact that there are no quotas in tinplate. We're working strongly at the plant in place to compete in the American market that only has a tariff of 25% for the time being. And I believe that Brazil with their good do what the United Kingdom was able to achieve yesterday to end up with a 10% tariff on the -- from the viewpoint of international trade United Kingdom will be able to sell in the USA with tinplate and other products.

鍍鋅產品已經沒有出路了。因此，我們在美國市場看到了巨大的機遇，我們將充分利用這個機遇，因為馬口鐵沒有配額。我們正在現有工廠大力開展工作，以在目前僅有 25% 關稅的美國市場中競爭。我相信，巴西能夠像英國昨天所做的那樣，最終對英國徵收 10% 的關稅——從國際貿易的角度來看，英國將能夠在美國銷售馬口鐵和其他產品。

So do forgive me for going on, but to give you an idea, this market has not come to a sense, so we have communicating vessels in terms of what is happening in the United States, what is not happening in China and could leverage imports in Brazil, not only from China, but from other countries that have nowhere to run to and will begin to export to Brazil.

所以請原諒我繼續說下去，但為了讓你們了解，這個市場還沒有形成，所以我們有溝通管道，了解美國正在發生的事情、中國沒有發生的事情，並可以利用巴西的進口，不僅來自中國，而且來自其他無處可去並將開始向巴西出口的國家。

(inaudible), JPMorgan.

（聽不清楚），摩根大通。

No, I think you thoroughly explain the situation of steel. And most of these points have become very clear. My last question, if we look at margins, as you mentioned, the macro economy is highly complicated. But you have been able to maintain comfortable margin levels. So should we think about the rest of the year?

不，我認為你已經徹底解釋了鋼鐵的情況。其中大部分觀點已經變得非常清晰。我的最後一個問題是，如果我們看一下利潤率，正如您所說，宏觀經濟非常複雜。但您已經能夠維持舒適的保證金水準。那麼我們是否應該考慮今年剩餘的時間呢？

We have a high interest rate, high import levels. So which is the evolution of margins in the coming quarters? And what could become a normalized margin to understand 2025 and maybe 2026. My last question, I'll follow-up on leverage. We have been deleveraging as the main focus of the company.

我們的利率很高，進口水準也很高。那麼未來幾季的利潤率將如何變化？什麼可以成為了解 2025 年和 2026 年的標準化邊際。我的最後一個問題是關於槓桿的問題。我們一直把去槓桿當作公司工作的重點。

You're doing a great deal on that front you worked with a project finance that you explained here. Are there further opportunities like this project finance going forward? Do you have other projects that could also help you in terms of deleveraging?

您在這方面做了很多工作，您曾在這裡解釋過您參與的專案融資。未來是否還會有類似這樣的專案融資機會？您還有其他項目可以幫助您去槓桿嗎？

This is Martinez. What you say is interesting. I don't remember but I think it was in your report that you said that our EBITDA result in steel was 6.8%, 6.5% above the forecast of JPMorgan. And really, we live in a completely disorganized world and Brazil has become a backyard, not only for China, but other countries who will eventually agree on the circumvention or triangular imports. From the viewpoint of margins, to go to the point, what is positive for CF?

這是馬丁內斯。你說的很有趣。我不記得了，但我認為您在報告中說過，我們的鋼鐵業務的 EBITDA 業績為 6.8%，比摩根大通的預測高出 6.5%。事實上，我們生活在一個完全混亂的世界，巴西已經成為後院，不僅是中國的後院，其​​他國家最終也會同意規避或三角進口。從利潤率的角度來看，對 CF 來說什麼是正面的？

First of all, we're working with scheming, -- we're cleaning out our product portfolio that is quite diversified. I'm looking at products that give me a higher margin that have an operational excellence working with an equation to maximize the blast furnace is a bottleneck at present. This is important data as the blast furnace too is undergoing maintenance and I'm dosing percent with the purchase of slabs. Now these 3,500 tons we had in slab will have a drop, of course, I can't tell you how much, but it will be quite steep in the second and third quarters in terms of cost. From the price viewpoint, if we can maintain what we did in the first quarter, we ended up with a 3.2% price increase.

首先，我們正在製定計劃——清理我們相當多樣化的產品組合。我正在尋找能夠為我帶來更高利潤的產品，這些產品具有卓越的營運能力，可以透過方程式最大限度地利用高爐，這是目前的瓶頸。這是重要的數據，因為高爐也正在進行維護，而且我正在購買板坯。現在，我們現有的 3,500 噸板坯產量將會下降，當然，我無法告訴你下降幅度有多大，但就成本而言，第二季和第三季的降幅將相當大。從價格角度來看，如果我們能夠維持第一季的水平，最終價格將上漲3.2%。

That would be very positive. We don't have much control over these variables in the market. And the market, I think, is being naive, thinking that steel has elasticity and can improve demand. Demand is good. It's not the price that will resolve this we're going to hold back prices to the utmost that was not to lose profitability. And our margin will follow along those lines with relative stable prices, perhaps higher in the second quarter and costs going downhill.

那將是非常積極的。我們對市場中的這些變數沒有太多的控制權。我認為，市場很天真，認為鋼鐵具有彈性，可以改善需求。需求良好。價格並不能解決這個問題，我們將盡力壓低價格，以免損失獲利能力。我們的利潤率也將隨之而來，因為價格相對穩定，第二季可能會更高，而成本則會下降。

I need to speak about projects such as CEEE. Yes, we do have other projects we have been discussing since the second half of 2024. There are two in steel, one in mining. We have a coke battery at [Station 500] and in mining a project called [V4]. We have been serving and structuring these projects in the project finance modality.

我需要談談諸如 CEEE 之類的項目。是的，我們確實還有其他項目，自 2024 年下半年以來一直在討論。鋼鐵業有兩個，採礦業有一個。我們在[500號站]有一個焦炭電池，在採礦中有一個叫做[V4]。我們一直以專案融資模式為這些專案提供服務和建構。

Of course, we need more time. These are project structures that cannot be replicated, and we have to build things specifically for each project, and this takes time. But we want to close these operations in the year 2025. The impact on company deleveraging besides AAV will be longer. These are greenfields that will be implemented and cash generation and all benefits from the project will give to the company's deleveraging.

當然，我們需要更多時間。這些專案結構是無法複製的，我們必須為每個專案專門構建，這需要時間。但我們希望在 2025 年結束這些行動。除了AAV之外，對公司去槓桿的影響將會持續更久。這些都是即將實施的綠地項目，項目產生的現金和所有收益將有助於公司的去槓桿化。

But this is what we have added in our capital structure. And as part of the tools for financing in the company as being important for deleveraging and important investments for the company.

但這是我們在資本結構中所添加的內容。並作為公司融資工具的一部分，對公司去槓桿和重要投資具有重要意義。

[Mr. Marcelo Haze, bg.com].

[Marcelo Haze先生，bg.com]。

Two questions that are in Recently, we read news on the possible renovation of capacity in China. They think about 50 million tons. Which is the visibility you have of this topic and could this help the industry eventually in the midterm? A second question to speak about demand. You mentioned that you expect a margin improvement going forward.

最近，我們看到有關中國可能進行產能更新的新聞。他們認為大約是5000萬噸。您對這個主題的了解程度如何？從中期來看，這最終能為產業帶來什麼幫助？第二個問題是關於需求。您提到您預計未來利潤率會提高。

Where will this improvement come from through price will demand improve. These are our two questions. Thank you.

這種改善將從何而來？價格將透過需求改善而來。這是我們的兩個問題。謝謝。

Hello, Marcelo. Good morning. An interesting question in I believe that yesterday or two days ago. I hope that this is true. I hope it's not a lie.

你好，馬塞洛。早安.我認為昨天或兩天前的一個有趣的問題。我希望這是真的。我希望這不是謊言。

The Chinese government is looking for province to see which would be their production cuts to be able to equalize everything because equalization is a matter of profitability. 50% of the Chinese plant have a certain level of profitability. Those that do have profitability the profitability would not even pay the cost of your expenses of investing in maintenance or equipment upgrades. So this, I'm referring to facts to data and something that is well known. Another point and this brings me quite a bit of hope a cut in commodities anything that will modify the status quo of the market by 2% or 3%.

中國政府正在尋求各省的減產措施，以實現平衡，因為平衡關乎獲利能力。 50% 的中國工廠都具有一定的獲利能力。那些確實有獲利能力的企業，其獲利能力甚至無法支付你在維護或設備升級方面的投資費用。因此，我指的是事實、數據和眾所周知的事情。另一點，這給我帶來了很大的希望，大宗商品價格的削減將改變市場現狀 2% 或 3%。

These are minor variations that will change the world if China reduces the production by 50 million tonnes, and I heard some more than that per province, the environment would be very interesting for us in terms of the possibility of recovering margins, but it's a variable. We have no control over. All we control is our cost and our commercial strategy, as Benjamin mentioned, I never saw such a large spread of [BQ] from the USA to China, 445 to 1,023, 2025 spread that never existed before. And in the negotiations of the American government with the countries and with United Kingdom, I see that the American government is very careful with Japan and Korea.

這些都是微小的變化，但一旦中國減少 5000 萬噸的產量，世界將發生改變，我聽說每個省的減產幅度不止這個數字，就恢復利潤的可能性而言，環境對我們來說將非常有趣，但這是一個變數。我們無法控制。我們所控制的只是我們的成本和商業策略，正如本傑明所提到的，我從未見過從美國到中國的 [BQ] 價差如此之大，445 比 1,023，2025 的價差以前從未存在過。而在美國政府與其他國家以及與英國的談判中，我看到美國政府對日本和韓國非常謹慎。

And the coming week, they will have a meeting with China itself. In Europe, to speak about this, if all of this becomes aligned, it could help us and create a different dynamic in the domestic market. What I'm rooting for in the domestic market is for demand to continue. If the demand is 15 million, 15.5 million a year. This is interesting for Brazil.

下週他們將與中國舉行會晤。在歐洲，如果所有這些都協調一致，它可以幫助我們在國內市場創造不同的活力。我所支持的是國內市場的需求將持續下去。如果需求量是1500萬，那麼一年就是1550萬。這對巴西來說很有趣。

The second question, referring to cement Important information, CSN has worked a great deal on cement and on all its pillar. In cement, of course, we have a stronger strategy to occupy space, obviously. And our volumes have grown consistently more than the growth of steel. Now what happened in price? And I'm very calm with this last month, our price increased 3%.

第二個問題，關於水泥的重要訊息，CSN 在水泥和所有支柱上都做了大量工作。當然，在水泥領域，我們顯然有更強大的策略來佔據空間。我們的產量成長速度一直高於鋼鐵產量的成長速度。現在價格發生了什麼變化？我對此非常平靜，上個月我們的價格上漲了 3%。

Approximately price began to drop at the end of last year in November and December, a bit in January, but we returned this in February and March. What can we expect for cement? I don't believe there will be a slowdown in (inaudible) levels 2 and 3. Quite the contrary, the builders we work with that have portfolios in that market are doing very well. And builders that have a higher standard.

大約在去年 11 月和 12 月底價格開始下降，1 月有所下降，但在 2 月和 3 月就恢復了。我們對水泥有何期待？我不相信（聽不清楚）2 級和 3 級會放緩。恰恰相反，與我們合作的在該市場擁有投資組合的建築商表現非常出色。以及具有更高標準的建築商。

Some are suffering those that have a larger building inventory. I don't think demand is a problem. I think everything is doing well. Now what could be an upside that still is and we speak about this a great deal. It's a matter of infrastructure that could help in a bit here, although CSN also works in other large projects such as subway or other engineering work from the viewpoint of cost.

一些擁有較大建築庫存的人正在遭受損失。我認為需求不是問題。我認為一切都進展順利。現在，這仍然可能是一個好處，我們對此進行了大量討論。雖然從成本角度來看，南航也參與地鐵或其他工程等其他大型項目，但基礎設施問題可能會有所幫助。

I'm going to give the floor to Edvaldo who will complement what I am saying, but we're quite sure of this strategy. We have worked arduously logistic maximizing our furnace to reduce the interfaces we had with the acquisition of [La Page]. The system is certain in terms of its connectivity with the market. And CSN has an umbilical relationship with the construction market. We are a one-stop shop.

我將把發言權交給艾德瓦爾多，他會補充我的說法，但我們對這項策略非常有信心。我們努力工作，最大限度地利用我們的熔爐，以減少與收購的接口[拉佩奇]。該系統在與市場的連結性方面是肯定的。南航與建築市場有著密切的關係。我們是一站式商店。

We sell cut, and fold sand, cement and everything else. This is a strong commercial pillar complemented by the operational service that Edvaldo will comment on for cement.

我們出售切割和折疊的沙子、水泥和其他一切東西。這是一個強大的商業支柱，並輔以 Edvaldo 將評論的水泥營運服務。

Well, thank you, Martinez. Thank you, Marcelo, for the question. When it comes to costs and operational management as Marco presented, we had a drop in margin in the first quarter. But we're calm about this because the first quarter is always more difficult, and everything tends to be slower. Now withstanding this there was an increase in volume-based significant increase vis-a-vis the first quarter of '24.

好吧，謝謝你，馬丁內斯。謝謝馬塞洛提出的問題。正如馬可所說，談到成本和營運管理，我們第一季的利潤率有所下降。但我們對此很冷靜，因為第一季總是比較困難，而且一切都趨於緩慢。儘管如此，與 24 年第一季相比，交易量仍有顯著成長。

This is a good sign, as [Martin] mentioned, that we will have some volume going forward. In terms of cost, we have pressure, momentary pressure because of the price of fuel and raw material. But this holds true for the entire industry through the costs that is something we have in the company's DNA, we observed the increases. But the vision here is that we will be -- we will be able to continue on with cost increases, although they are momentary due to the situation, and we will be able to recover prices, as Martin mentioned. So we see cement going strong with a positive trend in the future.

正如 [Martin] 所提到的，這是一個好兆頭，表明我們未來會有一定的銷售量。在成本方面，由於燃料和原料的價格，我們有壓力，暫時有壓力。但這對於整個行業都是如此，透過成本——這是我們公司 DNA 中的東西——我們觀察到了成本的成長。但我們的願景是，我們將能夠繼續提高成本，儘管由於情況原因這只是暫時的，但我們將能夠恢復價格，正如馬丁所提到的那樣。因此，我們預期未來水泥市場將強勁成長，呈現正面趨勢。

Our goal is to overcome a 30% EBITDA margin. This is what we are seeking, and this should happen in the coming months.

我們的目標是突破 30% 的 EBITDA 利潤率。這就是我們所尋求的，並且應該會在未來幾個月內實現。

(inaudible).

（聽不清楚）。

The first question for steel. [Martin], your comments on the market were extremely clear. You have a strong apparent demand consumption and penetration of imported materials will be strong in the coming months. I understand that your comments is to have relatively stable prices at in this coming quarter. Does this mean that you're willing to make concessions in terms of volume?

第一個問題是關於鋼鐵的。 [馬丁]，你對市場的評論非常清晰。未來幾個月，您的明顯需求、消費和進口材料的滲透將會很強勁。我理解您的意見是希望下個季度的價格相對穩定。這是否意味著您願意在數量上做出讓步？

And for the steel plant in terms of imported materials, you don't expect great changes in terms of dumping because of the technical opinion? Now in terms of the tariffs that have proven to be ineffective. This begins at the end of May. Will you be able to renew this system in any way?

對於鋼廠進口材料而言，您不認為技術意見會為傾銷帶來很大的改變嗎？現在就關稅而言，事實證明這是無效的。這從五月底開始。您能以任何方式更新這個系統嗎？

Refers to another point that I would like to comment on. And we haven't mentioned that look at what is happening, imports, the Chinese imports coming to Brazil. Besides being unloyal, we have to be careful. If you look at the quota system, it bases itself on some NCN and they said for the quota. Now the people in China are using product in steel, moving away from a code.

指的是另一點我想評論的點。我們還沒有提到看看正在發生的事情，進口，中國進口到巴西。除了不忠誠之外，我們還必須小心。如果你看一下配額制度，它以一些 NCN 為基礎，並且他們說這是配額。現在中國人民已經不再使用代碼，而是使用鋼製產品。

Now for steel that has the wrong code, that is not special steel. In the first quarter, the growth was of approximately 60%. For you to have an idea until April of 2025, coming from China with that code, we had 400,000 without paying tariffs. How many went through 100,000? So besides the quota, there is a foul play that is happening that would also deserve a panel piece by the competent organ because of the specifications, the products get to Brazil with -- it is an illegal shortcut carried out for imports to get to Brazil.

現在，對於程式碼錯誤的鋼材，它不是特殊鋼材。第一季度，增幅約為60%。你知道嗎，截至 2025 年 4 月，來自中國且帶有該代碼的產品中，我們有 40 萬件無需繳納關稅。有多少人突破了10萬？因此，除了配額之外，還存在著不正當行為，由於產品進入巴西的規格，這種不正當行為也應受到主管機關的調查——這是進口產品進入巴西的非法捷徑。

Regarding the continuity of impact -- imports. To be very clear material, I still have the hope that we're going to learn more. And because of pain, we will learn a little more hope that the government will renew the quota with higher rates and with grades that will enable us to at least limit imports to 10%, 12% or 15%. That would be an interesting level because the government has distorted peer, an incorrect peer that this will produce inflation in Brazil. This is untrue.

關於影響的持續性—進口。為了非常清楚地說明材料，我仍然希望我們能學到更多。正因為痛苦，我們才會多了一絲希望，那就是政府將以更高的稅率和等級重新設定配額，讓我們至少能夠將進口量限制在 10%、12% 或 15% 以內。這將是一個有趣的水平，因為政府扭曲了匯率，錯誤的匯率，這將導致巴西通貨膨脹。這不是事實。

So that is not a danger that will materialize. The government needs to be more responsible, more diligent and adopt these measures for trade protection. In the other case that you mentioned regarding the price scenario, my portfolio at present and -- as we sign steel, we have 50%, 52% of coated goods. We still have room to grow there. We don't have a normal pace although there is a reallocation or equalization of tariffs.

所以這並不是一個會實現的危險。政府需要更負責任、更勤勉地採取這些措施來保護貿易。在您提到的另一種有關價格情境的情況下，我目前的投資組合——當我們簽署鋼材時，我們有 50%、52% 的塗層商品。我們仍有成長空間。儘管關稅進行了重新分配或均等化，但我們的節奏並不正常。

But I can improve the portfolio more what I think is possible is that in the third and fourth quarter, we will work with export levels of tinplate to the United States. That is more interesting. This would add value to our portfolio. From the viewpoint of products, don't forget, we have production units in Portugal and Germany that are undergoing better moments in Germany because of the energy, the issue of energy has been equalized. The margins are more decent in Germany and Portugal.

但我可以進一步改善投資組合，我認為可能的是，在第三季和第四季度，我們將努力提高對美國的馬口鐵出口水準。這更有趣。這將增加我們的投資組合的價值。從產品的角度來看，別忘了，我們在葡萄牙和德國都有生產部門，由於能源問題已經均衡，這些部門在德國正經歷更好的時期。德國和葡萄牙的利潤率更為可觀。

We're going through a positive situation. The market is very close. CSN has a good share in the Iberian Peninsula. And in the United States, despite the competition, we made the most of the first quarter to increase export. We're sending more material to the US to harvest the results in the second and third quarter, a premeditated strategy to enhance our margin from the viewpoint of prices. The scenario of Brazil, I think we could be more cautious with price I'm being more cautious because we're operating with a blast furnace. We're not going to focus on market share, quite the contrary. I'm going to focus more on profitability. Unfortunately, we see a war in the market, and it's very difficult to get away from this because -- we can even be reasonable in terms of price.

我們正處於積極的形勢之中。市場非常接近。CSN 在伊比利亞半島佔有相當大的份額。在美國，儘管競爭激烈，我們仍然充分利用第一季的時間來增加出口。我們正在向美國發送更多資料，以在第二季和第三季獲得成果，這是從價格角度提高利潤率的有預謀的策略。對於巴西的情況，我認為我們可以對價格更加謹慎，我之所以更加謹慎，是因為我們使用的是高爐。我們不會關注市場份額，恰恰相反。我將更加關注獲利能力。不幸的是，我們看到市場上存在一場戰爭，很難擺脫這種戰爭，因為——我們甚至可以在價格方面保持合理。

But we're going to work with our mission, operational excellence, cost, commercial strategy and maximize margins to levels above 15%.

但我們將致力於我們的使命、卓越營運、成本、商業策略，並將利潤率最大化至 15% 以上的水平。

[Mili, XP].

[米莉，XP]。

We have two questions. The first a more general question regarding capital allocation. You have several projects in the portfolio, one for mining, the renovation of the blast furnace. Now thinking of the discussion on tariffs and the dynamic of interest rates in Brazil, can all of this change your mindset regarding capital allocation? And how much of that CapEx could you transfer from 2025 to future years?

我們有兩個問題。第一個問題是關於資本配置的更普遍的問題。您的投資組合中有幾個項目，一個是採礦項目，一個是高爐改造項目。現在考慮有關關稅和巴西利率動態的討論​​，所有這些能否改變您對資本配置的看法？那麼，有多少資本支出可以從 2025 年轉移到未來幾年？

That's the first question. The second question for the steel segment, if you could give us more details on the maintenance of blast furnace 2 that happened in January. What is happening with the renovation is the (inaudible) concludes and CapEx and mix and volume for 2025? I believe the strategy will be to continue to acquire slabs from third parties with a drop in the second half of the year.

這是第一個問題。第二個問題是關於鋼鐵部門的，您能否向我們詳細介紹一下 1 月份 2 號高爐的維護情況？改造工程進度如何？ （聽不清楚）將如何結束？ 2025 年的資本支出、組合和數量如何？我相信該策略將是繼續從第三方採購板材，但下半年採購量將會下降。

Regarding capital allocation, you're right. We have a exercise when it comes to investments and capital allocation. Given what I mentioned at the beginning of the call, higher financing rates for the year of '25, something that began in the year 2023. Because of this, we have been very assertive, very critical in the allocation of capital in each project. We have mentioned this in other calls.

關於資本配置，你是對的。在投資和資本配置方面，我們有一個練習。鑑於我在電話會議開始時提到的內容，25 年的融資利率將會更高，這從 2023 年開始。正因為如此，我們在每個項目的資金分配上都非常自信、非常挑剔。我們在其他電話會議中提到過這一點。

This is a large exercise not to have a CapEx in 2025 higher than that of 2024 eliminating some projects, therefore, in the specific case of steel because you mentioned the tariffs that could impact our capital allocation. We're focused on projects in steel continuing on with centering, streamlining UPV aimed to increasing the efficiency of the process. These are activities we carried out in 2024 in the fourth quarter of '24 and in the first quarter of this year. We're on the right path, they're not expanding capacity, but they're improving efficiency and improving efficiency is something we like. It increases profitability, cash generation.

這是一項大型活動，目的是使 2025 年的資本支出不高於 2024 年，從而取消一些項目，因此，在鋼鐵的具體情況下，因為您提到的關稅可能會影響我們的資本配置。我們專注於鋼鐵項目，繼續集中、簡化 UPV，旨在提高流程效率。這些是我們在 2024 年第四季和今年第一季所進行的活動。我們走在正確的道路上，他們沒有擴大產能，但他們正在提高效率，而提高效率是我們喜歡的。它提高了盈利能力和現金產生能力。

In terms of mining, the same holds true. [15] of the very relevant projects were at an important status. We can take our foot off the pedal now in 2025. We're going to deliver it in 2027. Because of the transformation, it will bring the company not only in volumes but in iron or quality, it will be a high-grade iron ore.

在採礦方面也是如此。 [15]非常相關的項目處於重要地位。到 2025 年，我們就可以放鬆警戒了。我們將於 2027 年交付。由於這一轉變，它將為公司帶來的不僅是產量，還有鐵礦石的質量，它將是一種高品位的鐵礦石。

We have carried out exercises. We have a well controlled CapEx. But once again, it is a daily exercise something recurrent at our institution because of this scenario, depending on the government stance in terms of antidumping, Well, somebody mentioned that there is a review in May. We're going to continue to see if something else can be adjusted. CapEx is something we have more significant control over, but we cannot lose sight of the projects that bring profitability to the company.

我們已經進行了演習。我們的資本支出控制得很好。但再說一次，這是我們機構每天都會重複發生的事情，因為這種情況取決於政府在反傾銷方面的立場，嗯，有人提到五月會有一次審查。我們將繼續觀察是否可以進行其他調整。我們對資本支出有更重要的控制權，但我們不能忽視為公司帶來獲利的項目。

An important point in the steel mine. What is a first quarter cost steel plant the steel plant that buys coke, it is not doing well. It is not under control. It is something stoichiometric. What happened with CSN through time?

鋼礦中一個重要的據點。第一季鋼廠成本是多少？買焦炭的鋼廠，日子不好過。它不受控制。這是化學計量的。隨著時間的推移，CSN 發生了什麼事？

We began to have a higher cost because we had to buy more [coke] and increase the amount of pellets and this did not do well. We -- it's okay when you have a strong demand, you can continue to operate what is happening now. And I can say this on behalf of Benjamin is that it was very difficult to make that decision. Why? But we never stopped anything here.

我們的成本開始增加，因為我們必須購買更多的[焦炭]並增加顆粒的數量，但這樣做效果並不好。我們－當你有強烈的需求時，你可以繼續經營現在正在發生的事情。我可以代表本傑明說，做出這個決定非常困難。為什麼？但我們從未在這裡停止過任何事情。

We always accelerated. In the pandemic when everybody stopped, we accelerated. With the rupture of [Lehman] Brothers, we also accelerated. It was the first time in the 24 years I am here that we [stopped] the blast furnace too. There was no logic operating the furnace and buying pellets and cook.

我們一直在加速。在疫情期間，當所有人都停下來時，我們卻加速了。隨著雷曼兄弟的破產，我們也加速了發展。這也是我在這裡 24 年來第一次（關閉）高爐。操作熔爐、購買顆粒並進行烹飪是毫無邏輯的。

What are we doing now a very uncertain decision. We're going to work with our maximum operational excellence on blast furnace 3, minimizing the volumes of coke and pellets, furnace -- blast furnace 3 is the Chairman is running very well. Regarding blast furnace 2, we're carrying out all of the maintenance that should be done but nobody stopped the blast furnace for two months. Everything went by very quickly. We stopped the blast furnace in January, and the intention was to keep it down for six months.

我們現在做什麼是一個非常不確定的決定。我們將以最高的卓越運作水準對 3 號高爐進行操作，盡量減少焦炭和球團的用量，3 號高爐運作良好。關於 2 號高爐，我們正在進行所有應該進行的維護，但兩個月內沒有人讓高爐停止運作。一切都進行得很快。我們在一月停止了高爐的生產，目標是讓它停產六個月。

Respecting what is happening in the government, respecting the government response stability in terms of competitive isonomy, this is fundamental in that period of two or three months, we can put the blast furnace work but it has to come back to work with a more favorable market conditions. And in the meantime, we will modulate our shipments with purchases outside and perhaps another product that does not come from China.

尊重政府正在發生的事情，尊重政府在競爭均衡方面的反應穩定性，這是在兩三個月內的基礎，我們可以讓高爐運轉，但它必須在更有利的市場條件下恢復運作。同時，我們將調整我們的出貨量，從外部採購，或許還會採購其他非來自中國的產品。

Caio Ribeiro, Bank of America.

卡約·裡貝羅，美國銀行。

I have only one question. Most of my questions have been answered. Benjamin at the beginning of the call, spoke about the momentary difficulties, the increased rate of uncertainty, the tariffs of USA, China problems with imports. If we put that together with the pressure on cash generation, how do this environment impact your payment of dividends and buyback and mining? That is our question.

我只有一個問題。我的大部分問題都已得到解答。本傑明在通話開始時談到了暫時的困難、不確定性的增加、美國的關稅、中國的進口問題。如果我們將其與現金產生的壓力結合起來，這種環境將如何影響您的股息支付、回購和採礦？這就是我們的問題。

Thank you, Caio, for the question. What is important to mention, and we mentioned this in other calls, Benjamin mentioned there is our commitment with the improvement of leverage and company improvement. At the beginning of the year, we said we would not pay out dividends in May as usual because of that commitment to maintain margins and liquidity in the company and to continued deleveraging. Now in other quarters, everything will depend on the operational results we deliver on the deleveraging and the market moment. Of course, there is now a clear decision for each period, how we will act, how the Board will approve the future payout of dividends.

謝謝 Caio 提出的問題。值得一提的是，我們在其他電話會議中也提到這一點，本傑明提到我們致力於提高槓桿率和公司發展。年初，我們表示，由於要維持公司的利潤率和流動性並繼續去槓桿，我們不會像往常一樣在五月派發股息。現在在其他季度，一切都將取決於我們在去槓桿和市場時機上所取得的營運成果。當然，現在每個時期都有明確的決定，我們將如何行動，董事會將如何批准未來的股利支付。

Now the decisions this quarter were strong. And because the direct link with our results and our preservation of cash, before we pay out dividends, but payout of dividends is one of the social functions of the company, and the company has had a great deal of constancy in this because of its shareholders. That is your first question.

本季的決策非常有力。因為這與我們的業績和現金保值直接相關，所以在我們支付股息之前，支付股息是公司的社會職能之一，而且由於股東的原因，公司在這方面一直保持著很大的一致性。這是你的第一個問題。

No, that was only one question, Marco, simply to clarify -- are you referring to mining or CSN?

不，這只是一個問題，馬可，只是為了澄清一下——您指的是採礦還是 CSN？

This is referring to CSN and CSN mining. We have had significant profit in the last few years. CSN is a company with reduced debt. It has more cash than indebtedness with exposure to the dollar because of its capital structure, it makes sense to relevantly pay out dividends as it did last year. This year, we announced a payout of BRL300 million in equity and dividends that we will sit in birth until the end of the year.

這是指 CSN 和 CSN 挖掘。過去幾年我們獲得了豐厚的利潤。CSN 是一家負債較少的公司。由於其資本結構，它的現金多於債務，並且面臨美元風險，因此像去年一樣支付股息是合理的。今年，我們宣布派發 3 億巴西雷亞爾的股權和股息，並將持續到今年年底。

And new payout will depend on the evolution of the flat price and the Siemens project. Siemens has important projects. We spoke about before disbursement for these projects will continue to be increased in the coming months because of the delivery of the projects in 2027. So with the increase of leverage of mining, these dividends will reach new level as is normal in each company until the new projects once again, robustly generate cash like the 15, and then we will have dividends that are adequate to the level of leverage of the company. This year, we have one distribution.

新的支出將取決於統一價格和西門子專案的進展。西門子有重要的項目。我們之前談過，由於這些項目將於 2027 年交付，未來幾個月這些項目的支出將繼續增加。因此，隨著採礦槓桿的增加，這些股息將達到新的水平，這在每家公司都是正常的，直到新項目再次像 15 一樣強勁地產生現金，然後我們將獲得與公司槓桿水平相適應的股息。今年，我們有一個分發。

We haven't defined a second distribution for mining. I hope you have answered your question.

我們還沒有定義用於挖掘的第二個分佈。我希望你已經回答了你的問題。

[Emerson].

[愛默生]。

A first question referring to leverage and the trajectory of cash generation. It is very clear that we go forward with a resilient demand and stable prices and reduction of cost, which will have an impact on EBITDA. On the other hand, we have a lack of [disciplined] when it comes to cash generation. There are more components impacting that variable. So how do you think about cash generation in the coming quarters?

第一個問題涉及槓桿和現金產生的軌跡。很明顯，我們將繼續保持強勁的需求、穩定的價格和降低的成本，這將對 EBITDA 產生影響。另一方面，我們在現金創造方面缺乏[紀律]。還有更多因素影響該變數。那麼您如何看待未來幾季的現金產生？

And if this would also contribute to a deleverage and the growth of EBITDA? The second question, which is your feeling about demand for steel? Looking at your main client, the month of April where you have a better visibility for the sample. Of course, if things were somewhat weaker in the fourth quarter because of seasonality and if there has been a resumption.

這是否也有助於去槓桿和 EBITDA 的成長？第二個問題，您對鋼鐵需求有何感受？看看您的主要客戶，四月您可以更了解樣品。當然，如果第四季度的情況由於季節性因素而減弱，並且已經恢復的話。

Thank you for the question, [Emerson], to respond to the first part. Yes, for the year in terms of financial and taxation obligations and CapEx for the year and considering our projections, we don't have a guidance for this, but we do have a cash generation that begins now in the second quarter of the year is more driving in the third and fourth quarters of the year because of an improvement of all segments and seasonality. And this will make feasible a natural deleveraging because of company results below 3x leverage means without including strategic projects and CSN infrastructure. This would be a natural result of the company. Now this quarter now, we were on a border line, although we had a very high level of CapEx, this was very different for the first quarter of the year different from other quarters.

感謝 [Emerson] 提出這個問題，回答第一部分。是的，就年度財務和稅務義務以及資本支出而言，考慮到我們的預測，我們對此沒有指導，但我們確實從今年第二季度開始產生現金，由於所有部門和季節性的改善，第三季度和第四季度的現金產生將更加強勁。這將使自然去槓桿成為可能，因為公司業績低於 3 倍槓桿率意味著不包括戰略項目和 CSN 基礎設施。這將是公司的自然結果。現在這個季度，我們處於一個臨界點，雖然我們的資本支出水平非常高，但今年第一季的情況與其他季度有很大不同。

We were at minus BRL173 million and cash flow financial expenditures did not help us as they're not helping any industry investing in the country. And we hope to see improvement in those two pillars we have in cash going forward. We hope to have a positive balance and a more [pulp] cash flow in the third and fourth quarters.

我們的虧損為負 1.73 億巴西雷亞爾，現金流財務支出對我們沒有幫助，因為它們沒有幫助任何在該國投資的產業。我們希望看到未來現金的兩大支柱得到改善。我們希望在第三季和第四季實現正餘額和更多的現金流。

[Emerson] have a good day, and thank you for the question. Regarding the demand. Last year, we were at BRL15.5 billion in the first quarter, demand grew 7% which is a very good figure. If we -- well, not demand, but apparent consumption grew 7%. And it's a very interesting figure.

[艾默森]祝您有美好的一天，感謝您的提問。關於需求。去年第一季我們的營收達到155億巴西雷亞爾，需求成長了7%，這是一個非常好的數字。如果我們——嗯，不是需求，而是表觀消費量增加了 7%。這是一個非常有趣的數字。

The problem is that domestic sales only grew 1%. Once again, in the second quarter, and it's a given demand will continue to be interpreting. Obviously, there are sectors that are seasonal, where we had more expressive volumes like white line, Mother's Day, we've already captured all of that but this sector is still very sensitive to interest rates with real interest rate of 10%. It's impossible to think of a growth. There are other segments that were more difficult that has had a resumption, agricultural implements compared to the third quarter of '24 had an enormous leap despite the slowdown in the agricultural market.

問題是國內銷售額僅成長了1%。再次，在第二季度，它的特定需求將繼續得到詮釋。顯然，有些行業具有季節性，我們有更具表現力的交易量，例如白線、母親節，我們已經捕捉到了所有這些，但這個行業仍然對利率非常敏感，實際利率為 10%。想像成長是不可能的。其他一些較困難的領域也已恢復，儘管農業市場放緩，但與 2024 年第三季相比，農機具實現了巨大的飛躍。

Last year, everything is back full steam and the example is [Agri] show we have material with a strong consumption of steel, 10% to 12% civil construction. We demand a great deal from civil construction. It's not doing poorly. What exists is an imbalance of the supply and demand equation. In an irresponsible way, this lead to a price reduction discontinued prices.

去年，一切都恢復正常，例如[農業]就顯示了我們的鋼材消耗量很大，土木工程消耗量為 10% 到 12%。我們對土木工程的要求很高。表現還不錯。存在的是供需失衡。以不負責任的方式，這導致價格下降或停產。

Even in the packaging sector, where we participate. We have seen that effect that the government are now and provisional antidumping for tinplate we have had an increase in consumption and reduction of exports. I believe that in the second quarter, we will have growing demand still. And perhaps in the second half of the year, something more stable to grow 6% to 7% a year. But with a strong figure for apparent consumption, we have to make this apparent consumption, turn it into internal or domestic sales.

即使在我們參與的包裝領域。我們已經看到了政府現在對馬口鐵實施臨時反傾銷的影響，我們的消費量增加了，出口減少了。我相信第二季我們的需求仍會成長。或許下半年會出現更穩定的成長，年增率能達到 6% 到 7%。但由於表觀消費量數據強勁，我們必須將這種表觀消費量轉化為內部或國內銷售。

[Moa Nicolas].

[莫阿·尼古拉斯]。

Good afternoon. Can you hear me?

午安.你聽得到我嗎？

Yes. Yes, we can.

是的。是的，我們可以。

You spoke a great deal about deleveraging in the coming years. Obviously, in the market at present, you're working with very high deals. And well, the figures for 2028 will be very high. Could you give us more color in terms of how the market is, which is your strategy for the coming years?

您談了很多關於未來幾年去槓桿的問題。顯然，在目前的市場上，你正在處理非常高的交易。那麼，2028 年的數字將會非常高。您能否向我們詳細介紹一下市場狀況以及您未來幾年的策略是什麼？

Thank you very much for the question, [Nicolas]. Our treasury team has had a focus on anticipating liability management, doing as much as they can. Between the last call and this one, we were able, in the first month of the year, to reduce it by 66%, anticipating refinancing lengthening on the repurchase of debt until 2028, we have a bond of almost $4 billion. This is something we're looking at very fondly. We want to do as much as possible in this perhaps in more than one operation for the present level of 9 and some percent, we still don't think this is the right level for this operation.

非常感謝你的提問，[尼古拉斯]。我們的財務團隊一直致力於預測負債管理，盡其所能。從上次到這次之間，我們在今年第一個月就將其減少了 66%，預計債務回購的再融資期限將延長至 2028 年，我們的債券總額接近 40 億美元。這是我們非常熱衷的事。我們希望盡可能多地進行這項工作，也許在目前的 9% 左右的水平上進行多次操作，但我們仍然認為這不是適合此項操作的水平。

We believe in an improvement of the global scenario from the explanation given by Martin there seems to be the beginning of an improvement in the global scenario, beginning with the USA, a reduction of interest rate by the Fed, they're speaking about reductions going forward. And with an improvement of the company results that we discussed thoroughly today and are deleveraging that level bonds in the secondary market should improve substantially. And this year, we can perhaps carry out one operation in liability management for that 2028 agreement. We do have some time to get there but we're proceeding assiduously here at the level of 9%, it's still not feasible to carry out that operation.

我們相信全球情勢會有所改善，從馬丁給出的解釋來看，全球情勢似乎開始有所改善，首先是美國，聯準會降低利率，他們正在談論未來的降息。隨著我們今天深入討論的公司業績的改善以及去槓桿化，二級市場的債券水準應該會大幅改善。今年，我們或許可以針對 2028 年協議進行一項責任管理工作。我們確實需要一些時間才能實現這一目標，但我們正在以 9% 的水平努力前進，執行該操作仍然是不可行的。

(Operator Instructions) As we have no further questions. I will return the floor to Mr. Marco Rabello, Executive Director for closing remarks.

（操作員指示）我們沒有其他問題。我將把發言權交還給執行長馬可·拉貝洛先生，請他作最後發言。

I would like -- I would like to thank everybody from CSN that has contributed to these excellent results. (inaudible) the first call for 2025, we would like to you a very good weekend. Thank you.

我想——我想感謝 CSN 的每一個人，是你們為這些優異的成績做出了貢獻。 （聽不清楚）這是 2025 年的第一次通話，我們祝大家週末愉快。謝謝。

The CSN conference call end here. We would like to thank all of you for your attendance. Have a very good afternoon.

CSN電話會議到此結束。我們感謝各位的出席。祝大家下午愉快。

Statements in English on this transcript were spoken by an interpreter present on the live call. The interpreter was provided by the company sponsoring this event

本記錄中的英文陳述是由現場翻譯人員宣讀的。翻譯由贊助本次活動的公司提供