EchoStar Corp (SATS) 2025 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Greetings, and welcome to the EchoStar Corporation third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, this conference is being recorded.

各位好，歡迎參加 EchoStar 公司 2025 年第三季財報電話會議。（操作說明）提醒各位，本次會議正在錄音。

It is now my pleasure to introduce Dean Manson, Chief Legal Officer.

現在我榮幸地向大家介紹首席法務官迪恩·曼森。

Thank you, Joe. Welcome, everyone, to EchoStar's third quarter 2025 earnings call. We will begin with opening remarks from Hamid Akhavan, President and CEO of EchoStar Capital, followed by Charlie Ergen, CEO and Chairman of EchoStar. We are also joined by other members of the leadership team.

謝謝喬。歡迎各位參加EchoStar 2025年第三季財報電話會議。我們將首先由 EchoStar Capital 總裁兼執行長 Hamid Akhavan 致開幕詞，然後由 EchoStar 執行長兼董事長 Charlie Ergen 致開幕詞。領導團隊的其他成員也加入了我們。

We request that any participant producing a report not identify other participants or their firms in such reports. We also do not allow audio recording, which we ask that you respect. All statements we make during this call other than statements of historical fact, constitute forward-looking statements made pursuant to the safe harbor provided by the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995.

我們要求任何撰寫報告的參與者不要在報告中透露其他參與者或其公司的資訊。我們也不允許錄音，請您尊重此規定。除歷史事實陳述外，我們在本次電話會議中所做的所有陳述均構成前瞻性陳述，這些陳述是根據 1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》提供的安全港條款作出的。

These forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause our actual results to be materially different from historical results and from any future results expressed or implied by the forward-looking statements.

這些前瞻性陳述涉及已知和未知的風險、不確定性和其他因素，這些因素可能導致我們的實際結果與歷史結果以及前瞻性陳述中明示或暗示的任何未來結果有重大差異。

For a list of those factors and risks, please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2024, filed on February 27, 2025, and our subsequent filings made with the SEC. This information and supplemental materials related to today's call will be posted on our Investor Relations website.

有關這些因素和風險的列表，請參閱我們於 2025 年 2 月 27 日提交的截至 2024 年 12 月 31 日的財政年度的 10-K 表格年度報告，以及我們隨後向美國證券交易委員會提交的文件。有關今天電話會議的資訊和補充資料將發佈在我們的投資者關係網站上。

All cautionary statements we make during the call should be understood as being applicable to any forward-looking statements we make wherever they appear. You should carefully consider the risks described in our reports and should not place any undue reliance on any forward-looking statements. We assume no responsibility for updating any forward-looking statements.

我們在電話會議中所做的所有警示性聲明應理解為適用於我們在任何地方作出的任何前瞻性聲明。您應仔細考慮我們報告中所述的風險，不應過度依賴任何前瞻性陳述。我們不承擔更新任何前瞻性陳述的責任。

We refer to OIBDA and free cash flow during this call. The comparable GAAP measure and a reconciliation for OIBDA is presented in our earnings release and in the case of free cash flow in our Form 10-Q as filed with the SEC today. With that, I'll turn it over to Hamid.

本次電話會議中我們將提及 OIBDA 和自由現金流。可比較的 GAAP 指標和 OIBDA 的調節表已在我們的獲利報告中列出，而自由現金流的調節表已在我們今天向美國證券交易委員會提交的 10-Q 表格中列出。接下來，我將把麥克風交給哈米德。

Thank you, Dean. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I would like to start by addressing the change in our call format this morning in that we have Charlie Ergen, our Founder and Chairman, here with us today. Charlie and I will provide some updates on our business, our recent transactions and discuss some changes within our organization.

謝謝你，院長。歡迎各位，感謝你們今天加入我們。首先，我想談談今天早上電話會議形式的改變，因為我們的創始人兼董事長查理·埃爾根今天也來到了現場。查理和我將介紹我們公司的最新業務進展、最近的交易情況，並討論我們組織內部的一些變化。

As you know, we recently announced the signing of a series of major transactions, one with AT&T at the end of August and another with SpaceX in September, valued at approximately $23 billion and $19 billion, respectively. These transactions were instrumental in resolving the FCC's review of the company's spectrum utilization.

如您所知，我們最近宣布簽署了一系列重大交易，其中一項是 8 月底與 AT&T 達成的交易，另一項是 9 月與 SpaceX 達成的交易，交易價值分別約為 230 億美元和 190 億美元。這些交易對解決 FCC 對該公司頻譜使用情況的審查起到了關鍵作用。

Further, just this morning, we announced an amended definitive agreement with SpaceX, which builds up on the agreement the company entered into in September to sell EchoStar's unpaired AWS-3 spectrum license for approximately $2.6 billion in SpaceX stock. Once these transactions close, we will have the capital runway necessary to continue to expand our existing operations as well as the freedom to pursue new opportunities.

此外，就在今天早上，我們宣布與 SpaceX 達成一項修訂後的最終協議，該協議建立在該公司 9 月達成的協議之上，該協議將 EchoStar 的未配對 AWS-3 頻譜許可證以價值約 26 億美元的 SpaceX 股票出售。這些交易完成後，我們將有足夠的資金繼續擴大現有業務，並有自由去尋求新的機會。

This focus on new growth avenues significantly broadens the aperture of our business going forward. In light of this increase in the scope of responsibilities for the company, Charlie and I have decided to create a new division focused primarily on capital management and M&A.

這種對新成長途徑的關注，大大拓寬了我們未來業務的發展空間。鑑於公司責任範圍的擴大，查理和我決定創建一個新的部門，主要專注於資本管理和併購。

Going forward, I will lead this new division as the CEO of EchoStar Capital. I will also continue to manage Hughes Network Systems. Charlie will take on the position of EchoStar CEO in addition to his role as Chairman. Managing our video and wireless operating business units, these changes are effective immediately.

接下來，我將以 EchoStar Capital 執行長的身份領導這個新部門。我將繼續管理休斯網路系統公司。查理除了擔任董事長一職外，還將兼任 EchoStar 的執行長。這些變更將立即生效，並適用於我們的視訊和無線營運業務部門。

Building up on a 45-year operating heritage across communications, media and technology infrastructure, EchoStar Capital will be a great steward of our resources. a vision and thesis-driven and strategic investment-oriented operation with a global perspective and a proven track record of value creation.

憑藉在通訊、媒體和技術基礎設施領域45年的營運經驗，EchoStar Capital將成為我們資源的優秀管理者。我們將以願景和理念為驅動，以策略性投資為導向，擁有全球視野和卓越的價值創造記錄。

Our institutional knowledge and experience uniquely positions us in the marketplace to create superior and lasting value through innovation, execution and integration, allowing us to invest in operating businesses, we can expand our capabilities and market reach and focus on initiatives that generate sustainable shareholder value. I'm incredibly excited about this opportunity and ability to usher in this new phase for EchoStar.

我們的機構知識和經驗使我們在市場中擁有獨特的地位，能夠透過創新、執行和整合創造卓越而持久的價值，使我們能夠投資於運營業務，擴展我們的能力和市場覆蓋範圍，並專注於創造可持續股東價值的舉措。我非常興奮能有機會帶領 EchoStar 進入這個新階段。

I will now hand off to Charlie for a few comments.

現在我將把麥克風交給查理，請他發表幾點看法。

Well, it's good to be back on the call, and it's funny kind of way. But I just have a couple of comments and my style is just to take questions because I never know what's on your mind Hamid and I will do that and team. One housekeeping issue is we agree with the President in the sense that we think corporations have to file twice a year instead of quarterly because by the time you finish the quarter, you're almost starting to work on the next one, it takes an in amount of time.

很高興能再次參與電話會議，而且感覺還挺有趣的。但我只有幾點要補充，我的風格就是接受提問，因為我永遠不知道你們在想什麼，哈米德，我會這麼做，我的團隊也會這麼做。一個需要注意的問題是，我們同意總統的觀點，即公司應該每年提交兩次報告，而不是每季提交一次，因為當你完成一個季度的報告時，你幾乎就要開始準備下一個季度的報告了，這需要花費大量的時間。

But since that hasn't changed, obviously, we'll still continue to file quarterly. But we may, from time to time, not do quarterly conference calls like this because we'll try to stay focused on our business. We will do a call next quarter for year-end. And obviously, we'll have a lot of things change between now and then.

但既然情況沒有改變，顯然，我們仍將繼續按季度提交報告。但我們有時可能不會像這樣召開季度電話會議，因為我們會努力專注於我們的業務。我們將在下個季度進行年終電話會議。顯然，從現在到那時，很多事情都會改變。

But after that, we may be sporadic in terms of how we do -- how to do these calls. So with that, let's take questions.

但在那之後，我們在進行這些通話的方式上可能會變得不規則。那麼，接下來我們來回答問題。

(Operator Instructions) John Hodulik, UBS.

（操作說明）John Hodulik，瑞銀集團。

Great, thanks. Good morning guys. Maybe first on EchoStar Capital. Charlie, could you talk about how it will be capitalized? Will all the proceeds from the spectrum sales go into EchoStar Capital? Or just anything you can tell us about those proceeds would be great.

太好了，謝謝。各位早安。或許首先是EchoStar Capital。查理，你能談談這筆資金將如何籌集嗎？頻譜銷售所得全部收益都會進入 EchoStar Capital 嗎？或者，如果您能告訴我們一些關於收益方面的信息，那就太好了。

And just what areas do you expect to invest in? And then lastly, if I could, you still have the AWS-3 spectrum. Any update you can give us on the potential sale of that block? And just how do you think of relative value for the paired versus the unpaired transaction we just saw?

您計劃在哪些領域進行投資？最後，如果可以的話，您仍然可以使用 AWS-3 頻譜。關於該地塊的潛在出售，您能否提供一些最新進展？那麼，您如何看待我們剛才看到的配對交易與非配對交易的相對價值呢？

Yeah. Thanks, John. I'm going to take the second part of your question. I'm going to have, I think, Hamid is the better person to answer the EchoStar Capital question. But on AWS-3, the big picture is the sale to SpaceX is timely. I think it's because we still own the pare AWS-3 and we sold some spectrum to AT&T, the unpaired was for us, somewhat orphan spectrum.

是的。謝謝你，約翰。我將回答你問題的第二部分。我認為，哈米德是回答 EchoStar Capital 問題的更合適人選。但就 AWS-3 而言，從大局來看，賣給 SpaceX 的時機恰到好處。我認為這是因為我們仍然擁有配對的 AWS-3 頻譜，而我們把一些頻譜賣給了 AT&T，未配對的頻譜對我們來說有點像是孤兒頻譜。

But in SpaceX hands, it gives them a lot of flexibility of combining uplink and downlink, and it gives them a lot of flexibility for where spectrum might come in the future. So for them, obviously, went for a lower price, but they're going to be able to make obviously much better use of it than we can in today's terms.

但在 SpaceX 手中，它賦予了他們很大的靈活性，可以組合上行鏈路和下行鏈路，也賦予了他們很大的靈活性，可以應對未來頻譜的分配。所以對他們來說，顯然是選擇了更低的價格，但顯然他們能夠比我們今天更好地利用它。

And we're pleased to get SpaceX stock because we think that's -- Hamid will talk about this maybe later, but that's obviously the kind of the first place EchoStar Capital is going with the equity interest in SpaceX. And we can talk more about why we think that's an excellent investment. The paired spectrum is we still have. Obviously, we would transact if there was a meaningful transaction. AWS-3 is quite a bit more valuable.

我們很高興能獲得 SpaceX 的股票，因為我們認為——哈米德以後可能會談到這一點，但這顯然是 EchoStar Capital 投資 SpaceX 股權的首要目標。我們也可以進一步探討為什麼我們認為這是一項極好的投資。我們仍然擁有成對光譜。顯然，如果存在有意義的交易，我們就會進行交易。AWS-3 的價值要高得多。

I think the other carriers look at it the same way. When you look at spectrum, value comes really from three sources. One is, is it in phones? And so is it in devices. That was one of the biggest problems we had in building our own network was getting some of our spectrum in devices.

我認為其他業者也是這麼看的。從頻譜的角度來看，價值實際上來自三個方面。一是，它在手機裡嗎？設備中也是如此。我們在建立自己的網路時遇到的最大問題之一就是如何將我們的一些頻譜資源分配到設備中。

But our AWS-3 paired spectrum has always been in devices for as long as I can remember. I doubt there may not be any phones in the United States that have AWS-3 spectrum in it. So it's already valuable in that sense because you don't have a bunch of extra cost on devices. The second thing is who uses AWS -3 and the three major carriers all use AWS-3 spectrum.

但據我所知，我們的 AWS-3 配對頻譜一直都存在於各種裝置中。我懷疑美國可能沒有任何手機支援 AWS-3 頻譜。從這個意義上講，它已經很有價值了，因為你不需要在設備上花費很多額外的費用。第二點是使用 AWS-3 頻譜的營運商，三大營運商都使用 AWS-3 頻譜。

It's a very wide band, 70 by 90 megahertz, it's a very wide band and all three of them use it. And in most cases, they're adjacent to our spectrum. And what does it cost you to deploy the spectrum. And in most cases, it's my understanding that the radios that are out there today, all can take our AWS-3 spectrum without having to climb the tower and put new radios in for the most part.

這是一個非常寬的頻段，70 兆赫 x 90 兆赫，這是一個非常寬的頻段，而且他們三個都使用它。而且在大多數情況下，它們都與我們的光譜相鄰。部署頻譜需要花多少錢？據我了解，在大多數情況下，目前市面上的無線電設備都可以使用我們的 AWS-3 頻譜，而無需爬上塔架安裝新的無線電設備。

So it's a very valuable spectrum in that sense. We'll get a sense of that, obviously, as the auction comes up next year for some of the spectrum from a smaller swath of spectrum, but we're very comfortable with that spectrum. And we'll work with the FCC in terms of the auction rules and how that might all take place.

所以從這個意義上講，這是一個非常有價值的光譜。顯然，明年將舉行頻譜拍賣，拍賣範圍將縮小一小段頻譜，屆時我們就能感受到這一點，但我們對目前的頻譜狀況非常滿意。我們將與聯邦通訊委員會 (FCC) 合作，商討拍賣規則以及拍賣的具體實施方式。

But I think it's the most valuable piece of the spectrum we have, and we'll see where that goes. Hamid?

但我認為它是我們擁有的光譜中最有價值的部分，我們將拭​​目以待。哈米德？

Yeah. Thank you. I'll answer the question regarding the proceeds from the sales. Our intention is that all of that would be within the EchoStar capital and EchoStar Capital. I believe our shareholders would be remiss if we didn't take advantage of 45-years of our institutional heritage and thesis-driven innovation and execution in the broad field that EchoStar has been involved in to maximize the value that they can get for the capital that comes into the company.

是的。謝謝。我會回答有關銷售收入的問題。我們的目標是讓所有這些都屬於 EchoStar 資本和 EchoStar Capital 的範疇。我認為，如果我們不利用 EchoStar 45 年來在各個領域累積的機構傳統和以理念為導向的創新與執行力，來最大限度地提高股東從公司獲得的資本價值，那將是我們的失職。

I can't see too many companies that have the strategic understanding and the breadth that EchoStar brings to the table across telco, space, aero, defense and all the fields that the portfolio families of EchoStar have been leading and involved in. Now obviously, we always will be greater stewards of capital and will maximize the use of the CapEx on any distribution of capital these necessary, we'll do that in an optimized way to our shareholders as necessary.

我看不出有多少公司像 EchoStar 一樣，在電信、航太、航空、國防以及 EchoStar 旗下投資組合公司一直引領和參與的所有領域，都擁有如此深刻的戰略理解和廣闊的視野。顯然，我們將始終更好地管理資本，並在必要時最大限度地利用資本支出進行任何資本分配，我們將以最優化的方式為股東實現這一目標。

So the road map is not 100% laid out at the moment, we see the market and opportunities could come to us, we'll try to take advantage of every opportunity in the best way. And as I said, I can't imagine too many companies out there with the breadth and knowledge that EchoStar has gotten over the past 45-years. That's our plan at the moment.

所以目前路線圖還沒有完全制定好，我們看到了市場和機遇，我們會盡力以最好的方式抓住每一個機會。正如我所說，我很難想像有多少公司能像 EchoStar 在過去 45 年裡累積的廣度和知識。這就是我們目前的計劃。

Obviously, as time goes on, we will be more specific about how in where we deploy that capital or any sort of distribution that could be decided in the future. But to start, we need to get all of that in place. The money is not here yet. So we have time to organize ourselves around how we would maximize the use of that capital.

顯然，隨著時間的推移，我們將更具體地說明我們將如何部署這些資金，或未來可能決定的任何分配方式。但首先，我們需要把所有這些準備工作都安排妥當。錢還沒到帳。因此，我們有時間來組織安排，思考如何最大限度地利用這些資金。

Great. And one more follow-up, if I can. Just, Charlie, any update on negotiations with the tower companies? And what happens to the entity DISH network has the deals with the towers. Will that entity sort of stay in place?

偉大的。如果可以的話，我再補充一點。查理，關於與鐵塔公司的談判，有什麼最新進展嗎？那麼，DISH Network這家實體會發生什麼事呢？它與信號塔有合作關係。這個實體會繼續留在那裡嗎？

Obviously, we had some unprecedented kind of curve out on us when the FCC informed us that they're going to investigate take the spectrum. So obviously, we believe that's a force majeure event. And we'll work with all our vendors. Obviously, we're the biggest company that got affected by that. But obviously, we also have other vendors and people we've worked with for a long time.

顯然，當 FCC 通知我們他們將調查並徵用頻譜時，我們遭遇了前所未有的打擊。所以很明顯，我們認為這是一起不可抗力事件。我們將與所有供應商合作。顯然，我們是受此影響最大的公司。但很顯然，我們還有其他供應商和長期合作夥伴。

They're affected by that, and we'll work with them to the extent that they want to work with us to try to resolve those issues unfortunately, one company has already commenced litigation and that kind of sour, some of the ability to talk to people because once things go into litigation, it's lawyers talking to lawyers and it's not business people talking to business people. And so that's a bit unfortunate. But the network is obviously an independent company when we did it, still an independent company.

他們確實受到了影響，我們會盡力與他們合作，在他們願意與我們合作的範圍內努力解決這些問題。不幸的是，一家公司已經提起訴訟，這破壞了雙方溝通的能力，因為一旦進入訴訟階段，就變成了律師之間的對話，而不是商人之間的對話。所以這有點可惜。但很明顯，在我們創建它的時候，這家網路公司是一家獨立的公司，現在仍然是一家獨立的公司。

And it will obviously handle this through that entity, it will handle all these negotiations through that entity. So we'll see where that shakes out and we hope that everything other than the current litigation, we hope that those things can be resolved, and we're open to have those discussions.

顯然，它將透過該實體處理此事，所有這些談判都將透過該實體進行。所以我們會看看事情最終會如何發展，我們希望除了目前的訴訟之外的其他所有事情都能得到解決，我們也願意就此展開討論。

Brent Penter, Raymond James.

Brent Penter，Raymond James。

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the question. A couple of follow-ups on some of John's questions. So you clearly are excited about the SpaceX stake that's now getting bigger. As you bring in some of this net cash, how do you think about that as an additional area to deploy capital? And as Basic raises additional capital, do you have rights in terms of maintaining or potentially growing your stake? Just help us think about that SpaceX stake and then where you might put your capital?

嘿，大家早安。感謝您回答這個問題。以下是對約翰提出的一些問題的後續解答。顯然，你對SpaceX股份不斷增加感到非常興奮。隨著淨現金流入，您如何看待將其作為額外的資本部署領域？如果 Basic 籌集更多資金，您是否有權維持或增加您的股份？請您幫我們想想您對SpaceX的股份，以及您可能會把資金投資到哪裡？

First of all, we are very excited about having that equity on our balance sheet. We consider that our first investment in EchoStar Capital, we believe that equity has tremendous growth opportunities just by the fact that SpaceX has such a significant lead in the technology within the space, and the space is becoming the next infrastructure in the world as launch capabilities and costs have become economical and also global security and communication has become more important in the age of AI.

首先，我們非常高興資產負債表上能有這筆股權。我們認為，我們對 EchoStar Capital 的首次投資，是因為我們相信，SpaceX 在太空技術領域擁有巨大的領先優勢，而且隨著發射能力和成本的降低，太空正在成為世界下一個基礎設施，同時，在人工智慧時代，全球安全和通訊也變得越來越重要。

So we see that as being a strategic holding. We obviously will keep that our balance sheet excited about having additional $2.6 billion that joins it. We certainly look to have additional investments of similar strategic nature as I mentioned, there's a number of areas, a number of industries that we have heritage and deep thesis about understanding of those trends within the industry.

所以我們認為這是一項策略性持股。顯然，我們會對新增的 26 億美元資金感到興奮，這將使我們的資產負債表保持良好狀態。正如我之前提到的，我們當然會尋求更多具有類似戰略性質的投資，我們在許多領域、許多產業都有著深厚的底蘊和對產業趨勢的深刻理解。

We'll be very careful about investments that are synergistic with our thesis and understanding, very excited about that opportunity. I can't comment about us getting more spaceX, equity or some other transaction. As I said, just this is the first day of our announcement about how we're going to go forward but we will be diversified. We'll be greater stewards of capital.

我們將非常謹慎地選擇與我們的理念和理解相契合的投資，並對這樣的機會感到非常興奮。我無法評論我們是否會獲得更多 SpaceX 的股權或其他交易。正如我所說，今天只是我們宣布未來發展方向的第一天，但​​我們將實現多元化發展。我們將更好地管理資本。

And as time goes on, we'll be more specific about the transactions. Good news is that we still have a few more months before we even have the capital on our balance sheet. So we do have the time to do a proper job of planning and communicating with you where we're heading.

隨著時間的推移，我們會對交易進行更具體的說明。好消息是，我們還有幾個月的時間才能把資金計入資產負債表。所以我們有時間好好規劃，並與您溝通我們的發展方向。

Yeah. And I'm just going to follow up a little bit with this will give you some insight, I think, to the way Hamid and EchoStar will think about extra capital, will think about things. But SpaceX in terms of -- we're excited about that as an investment and first thing we look at is management.

是的。接下來我再補充一點，我認為這將讓你們對 Hamid 和 EchoStar 將如何看待額外資金、如何看待事情有所了解。但就 SpaceX 而言——我們對此投資感到興奮，我們首先關注的是管理團隊。

And SpaceX management, we've gotten to know over the last 10-years because we've launched on them and they really have been the best vendor that we've worked with this space. And all very complex problems for us to move very quickly. And then we've worked a lot closer, obviously, as we've gone through these deals. And so they don't bracket themselves. They're pretty understated, but they are doing based on my experience, they are doing incredible things in space, whether it be launching or satellites or services.

在過去 10 年裡，我們與 SpaceX 的管理層建立了聯繫，因為我們曾多次與他們合作發射太空船，他們確實是我們在這個領域合作過的最佳供應商。所有這些問題都非常複雜，我們需要迅速解決。然後，很顯然，隨著我們完成這些交易，我們的合作也更加緊密了。所以他們不會給自己設限。他們行事低調，但根據我的經驗，他們在太空領域做著令人難以置信的事情，無論是發射衛星還是提供服務。

So the second thing you look at is, obviously, is this a place that over the next decade, there's going to be a business. And as Hamid said, space is going to continue to grow, particularly you see governments with Golden Dome and security, but it's also the consumer and the ability to do broadband from satellite and also connected devices, those two things fit together.

所以，你需要考慮的第二件事顯然是，在未來十年裡，這裡是否會有生意可做。正如哈米德所說，太空將繼續發展，特別是各國政府在金穹頂和安全方面的應用，但消費者也需要透過衛星進行寬頻傳輸，以及連接各種設備，這兩者是相輔相成的。

There's a lot of synergy between those two things in one company. And the third thing is who's going to be the winners and losers. And if we look at other industries, I don't know who the winner in AI is going to be. One thing I'm sure of, there will be winners and there will be losers. I just don't know which one will be winners and which ones will be losers.

同一家公司裡，這兩項業務之間有許多綜效。第三點是，誰會是贏家，誰會是輸家。如果放眼其他產業，我不知道人工智慧領域的最終贏家會是誰。我確信一件事，那就是會有贏家，也會有輸家。我真的不知道誰會是贏家，誰會是輸家。

But in space, I think it's pretty obvious that while there's some companies doing some very interesting and creative things. SpaceX is going to be the leader for the foreseeable future because they have the most efficient launch capability and satellite manufacturing capability.

但在太空領域，我認為很明顯，雖然有一些公司正在做一些非常有趣和有創意的事情。在可預見的未來，SpaceX 仍將是產業領導者，因為他們擁有最高效的發射能力和衛星製造能力。

In my opinion, that I've seen. So when you add all that together, and then I think when we built for 17-years, this ability to technically be able to go satellite device and regulatory-wise in the spectrum and all those kind of things.

就我所見，我認為是這樣。所以，當你把所有這些加在一起，然後我認為，當我們花了 17 年時間進行建設，我們才具備了在技術上製造衛星設備以及在頻譜監管方面等等所有這類能力。

That's now in SpaceX hands or will be in SpaceX and we know that worldwide capability and the same frequency. We know that, we would have built a good system, but they're going to build even a greater system in a faster period of time. So that's going to grow their business by in that business by itself is going to be a huge part of where they grow.

現在這項技術已經掌握在 SpaceX 手中，或將掌握在 SpaceX 手中，我們知道它具備全球能力和相同的頻率。我們知道，我們本來可以建立一個不錯的系統，但他們會在更快的時間內建立一個更強大的系統。所以，這項業務本身將成為他們成長的重要因素，因為它將促進他們的業務成長。

That's not probably in people's calculations to their value today. So that gives you a feel of how we think about things.

這可能不會被納入人們今天評估其價值的考慮範圍。這樣你就能感受到我們思考問題的方式了。

Okay. Great. I appreciate all the detail there. And then a follow-up on the tower side. Since you all feel that your relief of those power payments what would actually cause you to stop making your payments to the tower companies?

好的。偉大的。我很欣賞其中的細節。然後是塔架方面的後續情況。既然你們都覺得免電費可以減輕你們的負擔，那麼究竟是什麼原因導致你們停止向鐵塔公司支付費用呢？

And then just any update on the timing of when we might have a resolution as we think about litigation and negotiations with them?

那麼，關於我們何時可能達成解決方案，以及我們是否考慮過與他們進行訴訟和談判，能否提供一些最新進展？

Yeah. I just don't think we would get into that. I mean the only thing I would say is litigation is not positive.

是的。我覺得我們不會走到那一步。我只想說，訴訟並非好事。

David Barden, New Street Research.

David Barden，新街研究公司。

Hey guys. Thanks so much for taking the questions. Appreciate it. I guess my first question, Charlie, there weren't many numbers in the press release today about the SpaceX, AWS-3 unpaired deal. But one of those numbers was that you pay or you invested at a $212 price. So could you, for the public side investors tell us what information do you have? What information can you share to support what apparently is your belief that $212 is an appropriate valuation for the Space X company today.

嘿，大家好。非常感謝您回答這些問題。謝謝。查理，我的第一個問題是，今天關於 SpaceX 和 AWS-3 單機交易的新聞稿中沒有太多具體數字。但其中一個數字是，你支付或投資的價格是 212 美元。那麼，身為公開投資人的各位，你們能否告訴我們你們掌握了哪些資訊？您能提供哪些資訊來支持您關於 SpaceX 公司目前估值 212 美元的觀點？

And then I guess my second question is maybe for Hamid or maybe you also Charlie. The taxes on the asset sales, Joe, what the taxes would be helpful kind of given all the different moving parts on depreciation and capitalized interest.

那麼，我的第二個問題可能是問哈米德的，也可能是問你查理的。喬，資產出售的稅收，考慮到折舊和資本化利息等各種不同的變動因素，稅收的具體數額會很有幫助。

But also there's a theory out there that if your frustration of purpose argument works with respect to the towers that you have access to the 1033 stepped up basis on these spectrum sales and the taxes could be far less than maybe the market imagined. So I wonder if you could kind of opine on that.

但也有一種理論認為，如果你的「目的受挫」論點對基地台塔架有效，那麼你就可以獲得這些頻譜銷售的 1033 條款下的遞增成本，而稅收可能遠低於市場預期。所以我想知道你是否能就此發表一下看法。

Yeah. So, in terms of valuation of SpaceX, I would just say that I think I also repeat myself that we have a pretty good feel of what they're doing and where they are. I think they just publicly announced 8 million customers in broadband, I think you could overlay their growth in broadband and then overlay a device growth and look along that same curve.

是的。所以，就 SpaceX 的估值而言，我想說的是，我再次重申，我們對他們的業務發展方向和現​​狀已經有了相當清晰的了解。我認為他們剛剛公開宣布寬頻用戶達到 800 萬，你可以把他們的寬頻成長情況和設備成長情況疊加起來，然後沿著同一條曲線觀察。

And you would see much greater valuation than the $400 million. And again, as I said, the management team is excellent and understated in my opinion, in terms of what they do. And they have a pretty big moat around their business. You have 90% of the launch business, and they've launched the new generation of satellites, which is at least twice as big as anything else out there, maybe even bigger.

你會看到遠高於 4 億美元的估值。而且，正如我之前所說，在我看來，管理團隊非常出色，而且為人低調。而且他們的業務周圍有相當強大的護城河。你們佔了90%的發射業務，而且他們發射了新一代衛星，這些衛星至少是其他任何衛星的兩倍大，甚至可能更大。

It wants it 12 times, and they've caught it. Turn it back, right? And other people unfortunately are struggling to get the first ones up. So I think their lead is actually growing. The biggest competitor is China. Probably. But China, I don't know this has even successfully landed rocket.

它想要得到它 12 次，他們抓住了它。把它轉回去，對吧？不幸的是，還有一些人連第一個貼文都發不出來。所以我認為他們的領先優勢實際上正在擴大。最大的競爭對手是中國。大概。但是中國，我不知道他們是否成功發射火箭。

So their lead is big and growing. So if you had to pick a winner in an industry, from my opinion, I could be wrong on this, of course, and while they'll face competition and there's creative things going on in their space. They're the most obvious of any industry that I know they're the most kind of obvious winner, right, in terms of every other industry, you just got a lot of people that you just don't know who roughly ends up on top and, of course, SpaceX has challenges to get through, and there's still risk there.

所以他們的領​​先優勢很大，而且還在不斷擴大中。所以，如果要我選出一個行業的贏家，我的意見當然可能是錯的，而且他們也會面臨競爭，他們的領域裡也湧現了很多有創意的事情。在我所知的任何行業中，SpaceX 是最明顯的贏家，對吧？就其他所有行業而言，你根本不知道誰最終會勝出。當然，SpaceX 也面臨許多挑戰，仍有風險。

But that's the way we think about it. That's the way we'll think about things at EchoStar Capital, who has those characteristics. On the tax side of it, we're well aware of 1033.

但我們就是這麼想的。這就是 EchoStar Capital 看待問題的方式，因為我們擁有這些特質。在稅務方面，我們非常了解 1033 條款。

But maybe I'll turn it over to Paul or do you want to take that.

不過也許我會把它交給保羅，或者你想自己拿？

I'll make a comment on that, then we go, Paul. First of all, I absolutely endorse Charlie, the statements on the basis. But first, we want to mention that we are not insiders to a space. So we have no inside knowledge of basics. And Charlie and I views are 100% aligned and comment on how great is basics is, but that's not just personal views and based on what we have seen, you should rely on this basic as statements on what they see about the valuation of the business.

我對此會發表一些看法，然後我們就繼續，保羅。首先，我完全贊同查理基於此發表的聲明。但首先，我們要說明的是，我們並非該領域的內部人士。所以我們對基礎知識一無所知。我和查理的觀點完全一致，我們都認為這家公司的基本面非常出色，但這不僅僅是個人觀點，而且根據我們所看到的，你應該相信這家公司的基本面，以及他們對公司估值的看法。

We are excited about having that equity just as Charlie said, we see all the trends in the space being good and the SpaceX being a leader in there. Naturally, we think that this is a good place for us to hold. Now on taxes, we have not broken out the taxes separately from our other liabilities in the towers and others that we just referenced.

正如查理所說，我們很高興擁有這些股權，我們看到該領域的所有趨勢都是好的，而SpaceX是該領域的領導者。我們自然認為這裡是我們駐紮的好地方。關於稅款，我們還沒有將稅款與我們剛才提到的大樓和其他負債分開列出。

As we have previously said, we've not sharpened our numbers since the last time we spoke in Paris, we still believe that somewhere in the range of $7 billion to $10 billion is the combination of our unoptimized taxes and our optimized unoptimized value of our liabilities. So that range is what we essentially think we have.

正如我們之前所說，自從上次在巴黎談話以來，我們還沒有改進我們的數字，我們仍然認為，我們未優化的稅收和我們優化的未優化負債價值之和在 70 億美元到 100 億美元之間。所以，我們認為我們所擁有的範圍基本上就是這樣。

Now can 1033 provide additional benefit and reduce that number I'll ask Paul, he might have some knowledge in terms of how applicable there may be, Paul. Maybe you can comment on that.

現在，1033 條款能否帶來額外的好處並減少這個數字？我會問保羅，他可能對它的適用性有所了解，保羅。或許您可以就此發表一些看法。

So there's a lot of puts and takes there. Obviously, the AT&T transaction is going to close in '26 this basic transactions expected to close in '27. We have NOLs that play into the mix. We're going to do everything we possibly can to mitigate the exposure. We're working on that currently. But the range that Hamid gave that includes both decommissioning costs and tax of $7 billion to $10 billion is still currently our best estimate.

所以這裡面有很多進退兩難的狀況。顯然，AT&T 的交易將在 2026 年完成，而這項基本交易預計將在 2027 年完成。我們還有一些淨經營虧損（NOL）也要考慮。我們將盡一切可能降低風險。我們目前正在研究這個問題。但哈米德給出的估算範圍（包括退役成本和稅收在 70 億至 100 億美元之間）目前仍然是我們最好的估計。

So just to follow up real quick. The 1033 is not in the $7 million to $10 million but it's a possibility. Does is it contingent on kind of how these litigations go and whether you're successful in making this frustration of purpose argument, which would allow you to kind of move up the basis and shift assets to another class.

最後再快速補充一下。1033 的價格不在 700 萬到 1000 萬美元之間，但也不是完全不可能。這是否取決於這些訴訟的進展情況，以及你是否能夠成功地提出「目的落空」的論點，從而能夠提高訴訟基礎並將資產轉移到另一個類別？

It's been used, I think, some of the 600-megahertz broadcasters when they put spectrum in auction, I think they use 1033 in some cases successfully. So we're aware of it. And obviously, there seems to be a lot of similarities between how it's been used in the past, but everything is specific, and we'll look at that as part of our strategy. And I don't think it's contingent.

我認為，一些 600 兆赫茲的廣播公司在拍賣頻譜時已經使用過 1033 兆赫茲的頻段，在某些情況下，他們成功地使用了該頻段。所以我們知道這件事。顯然，它與過去的使用方式有很多相似之處，但每件事都有其特殊性，我們將把這一點作為我們策略的一部分來考慮。我不認為這是偶然的。

Yeah, I would just add to what Charlie said, it's not contingent on what happened with the litigation. Those are totally independent concepts.

是的，我只想補充查理所說的，這與訴訟結果無關。這些都是完全獨立的概念。

Walter Piecyk, LightShed Partners

沃爾特·皮西克 (Walter Piecyk)，LightShed 合夥人

I know I hate when I say it that way. On SATS cap, I assume all the cash from all the spectrum sales is going in there. Does that keep it away from shareholders and any OpEx obligations, meaning like the tower companies?

我知道我討厭自己那樣說。關於 SATS 上限，我假設所有頻譜銷售所得的資金都會投入其中。這樣是否就能使其免受股東和任何營運支出義務的影響，就像鐵塔公司一樣？

And then Hamid, you kind of like danced around returning the capital thing, if it's necessary to do it, I don't know when it's ever like required that you distribute cash, but can you give us a little bit more color on kind of at what point do you say, hey, we've used our 45-years of experience, we've looked around. There's not enough interesting stuff and we're going to spend cash to the shareholders.

然後哈米德，你似乎一直在迴避返還本金的問題，如果有必要的話。我不知道什麼時候需要分配現金，但你能再詳細說說，在什麼情況下你會說，嘿，我們已經運用了45年的經驗，我們也考察過了。沒有足夠的有趣內容，我們會把現金花在股東身上。

Let me take that piece first. Look, first of all, comment on dancing around first of all, Walt, it's a little early for me to give you an exact formula, a recipe or a road map for how we're going to utilize the cash. But as you would expect, as any great company that has institutional knowledge and heritage within certain verticals, the best ability, the best option usually is to use that knowledge to deploy the capital because they're strategic.

讓我先拿走那塊。首先，沃爾特，關於你剛才的閃爍其詞，現在讓我給你一個確切的方案、方法或路線圖來指導我們如何利用這筆資金還為時過早。但正如你所預料的那樣，任何一家偉大的公司，如果擁有某些垂直領域的機構知識和傳承，那麼最好的能力、最好的選擇通常是利用這些知識來部署資本，因為它們具有戰略意義。

They're the insiders to an industry that a financial investor from outside will never, never get that insight, right? So we would be remiss not to take advantage of all that institutional knowledge and return the capital to shareholders that would now they have to deploy that capital in a way that they would not take advantage of this disability.

他們是業內人士，而局外的金融投資者永遠無法獲得這種洞察力，對吧？因此，如果我們不利用所有這些機構知識，並將資本返還給股東，那就太失職了。現在，股東必須以不會利用這種缺陷的方式來部署這些資本。

I think the shareholders that have been with us and we have great ones around the table, Charlie himself. Would certainly want us to maximize the value. Now there's a limit to that. If I had $2 trillion, I couldn't use all of it, how much institutional knowledge I have, I probably couldn't use enough because the industry just doesn't have that ability just the opportunity is not there because the market is not good or the industries that we're focused on are out of favor or just don't have enough great opportunities for us, then we obviously as great as stewards of capital, we figure out how we would distribute that capital back to the shareholders in a tax-optimized way we are not novices in this.

我認為一直以來都支持我們的股東們，包括查理本人在內，都是非常優秀的股東。當然，他們肯定希望我們能最大限度地發揮其價值。當然，這種做法也有其限制。即使我有 2 兆美元，我也無法全部利用；即使我擁有再多的機構知識，我可能也無法充分利用，因為這個行業根本沒有這種能力，機會並不存在，因為市場行情不好，或者我們關注的行業不受青睞，或者根本沒有足夠好的機會。那麼，身為優秀的資本管理者，我們當然會想辦法以稅收優化的方式將這些資本分配給股東，我們在這方面並不陌生。

And certainly, we're not walking into this without a full understanding of the options ahead. The only thing I can say is that we have deep heritage, this company has proven it can return value by the fact that you have seen for the past year, the thesis that Charlie has put in place decades ago have come in play.

當然，我們並非在對未來所有選擇缺乏充分了解的情況下貿然行事。我唯一能說的就是，我們擁有深厚的歷史底蘊，這家公司已經證明它能夠創造價值，過去一年你們也看到了這一點，查理幾十年前製定的理論已經發揮了作用。

There's much more we could do there. But at the end of the day, we have excess capital beyond what we can properly use strategically used, we certainly will not sit on it in an optimized way. Very, very early stage for me to make any further detail on that, if you mature for me to say that, just trust us that we'd be greatest stewards of capital. We manage it like our own capital as it is our own capital primarily.

我們還可以做更多的事情。但歸根結底，我們擁有的剩餘資金超過了我們能夠合理戰略性利用的資金，我們當然不會以最佳方式將其閒置。現在還為時過早，我無法透露更多細節。如果您成熟到可以這麼說，請相信我們，我們會是資金的最佳管理者。我們像管理自己的資金一樣管理它，因為它本質上就是我們的資金。

And then just is this protected from DBSD and the tower company? And then just really a follow-up on that. Can you at least say that you're not going to like build a network or something of that ilk, these there really more passive investments that you're giving that you're using your years of expertise to look at?

那麼，這種做法是否能免於DBSD和鐵塔公司的侵害？然後，我想就此做個後續說明。您至少可以明確表示，您不會建立人脈網絡之類的東西，這些實際上是您運用多年專業知識進行分析的被動投資嗎？

Yeah. This is Charlie. Maybe Paul will jump in here. Obviously, our capital structure is well known, and they are obviously separate independent entities for specialized purposes. One thing that is clear for the AT&T transaction is we will be paying the DPS, the DBS will receive about $2.8 billion for Tranche B, which is the C-band spectrum that we're selling to that's collateral there. So the one thing you can say is that there will be capital moving into DBS at at least $2.8 billion. And then just on the types of investments?

是的。這是查理。或許保羅會插話進來。顯然，我們的資本結構是眾所周知的，而且它們顯然是為特定目的而設立的獨立實體。AT&T 交易中有一點很明確，那就是我們將向 DPS 付款，DBS 將收到約 28 億美元的 B 批次款項，也就是我們出售的 C 波段頻譜，它是那裡的抵押品。所以可以肯定的是，至少會有 28 億美元的資金流入星展銀行。那麼，就投資類型而言呢？

I assume these are not operational. These are all passive like, hey, we're investing in great new things that maybe SpaceX gives us access to?

我估計這些都不能用了。這些都是被動投資，例如，嘿，我們正在投資一些很棒的新事物，而 SpaceX 或許能讓我們接觸到這些事物？

So well, we certainly don't intend to be purely passive investors. We don't intend to do that because, obviously, we do not want to be, and it's not in our best interest of our shareholders to become a 4 times regulated company, investment company. We will have to manage this according to those rules, which means we'll make a combination of active and passive investments and even when we make a passive investment.

所以，我們當然不打算做純粹的被動投資者。我們並不打算這麼做，因為很顯然，我們不想成為一家受到四重監管的投資公司，而且這不符合我們股東的最佳利益。我們將按照這些規則進行管理，這意味著我們將結合主動投資和被動投資，即使進行被動投資也是如此。

It will be strategic for us. It will be a thesis-driven investment. We're not wealth managers. We don't view ourselves as just broadly deploying capital in the marketplace. We will only focus on areas where we understand. Now in some cases, that investment cannot be a controlled investment or significant influence investment as is the case for Basic.

這對我們來說具有戰略意義。這將是一筆以投資理念為導向的投資。我們不是財富管理公司。我們並不認為自己只是在市場上廣泛部署資本。我們只會專注於我們了解的領域。現在，在某些情況下，該投資不能是受控投資或重大影響投資，就像 Basic 的情況一樣。

The valuation of that company is very high, we would not be able to provide enough and we would not have access to enough equity to make that a control or significant influence as defined by the 40 Act. But we will balance that with other investments that we will have control and we will have operating influence to the point that we manage around any sort of regulation that would be in front of us.

那家公司的估值非常高，我們既無法提供足夠的資金，也無法獲得足夠的股權，從而達到《1940 年證券法》所定義的控製或重大影響。但我們會透過其他我們能夠控制和運作的投資來平衡這一點，從而能夠應對擺在我們面前的任何監管規定。

We will be much more precise in all of these as time goes on. Great questions for today, but we are aware of how we need to manage that, and we are not going to become a passive investment company we like to rely on our heritage of operations.

隨著時間的推移，我們在所有這些方面都會更加精確。今天的問題都很好，但我們也知道該如何應對，我們不會成為一家被動的投資公司，我們喜歡依靠我們悠久的營運傳統。

As I mentioned, we think we can combination of our understanding of technology, our ability to execute and our heritage of innovation will give us a very good platform to create great value.

正如我之前提到的，我們認為，結合我們對科技的理解、我們的執行能力和我們的創新傳統，我們將擁有一個非常好的平台來創造巨大的價值。

We own and run three different companies today in Hughes and DISH and Sling and boost. And clearly, obviously, from a boost perspective, we think that's a business that should grow and obviously, the video business is somewhat challenged, as it has been for a decade, but we still see those businesses last them for a long time.

目前我們擁有並經營三家不同的公司，分別是 Hughes、DISH、Sling 和 boost。顯然，從成長的角度來看，我們認為這是一個應該發展的業務，而且顯然，視訊業務在某種程度上受到了挑戰，就像過去十年一樣，但我們仍然認為這些業務可以持續很長時間。

Yeah. And we obviously have both Charlie and I have extensive operating experience not just domestically, but also globally. We have a very broad range and scope of places, domains and verticals that we can deploy the capital effectively.

是的。很顯然，我和查理都擁有豐富的營運經驗，不僅在國內，而且在全球範圍內也是如此。我們擁有非常廣泛的投資領域、產業和垂直產業，可以有效運用資金。

Michael Rollins, Citigroup Inc.

邁克爾羅林斯，花旗集團

Thanks and good morning. Charlie, in your brief opening comments, you described the reasons that you're going to do an earnings call for the fourth quarter versus end of the year and there's diluted changes that could be coming between now and then. I was just curious if you could give us a little bit of a preview or road map of the range of potential changes that can continue to happen for EchoStar between now and your fourth quarter earnings call?

謝謝，早安。查理，你在簡短的開場白中解釋了你選擇在第四季而不是年底召開財報電話會議的原因，以及從現在到那時可能會出現一些變化。我只是好奇，您能否給我們簡要介紹一下，從現在到第四季度財報電話會議期間，EchoStar可能會發生哪些潛在的變化，或者提供一份路線圖？

And then secondly, just a follow-up on kind of moving beyond being a wireless network operator. As you're selling the spectrum, at what point can you unplug the radios so that you're no longer meeting the minimum use requirements, but you're able to start saving money from doing that. Is it when these transactions close, is it now that you've announced a few transactions and you have maybe some more possibly that you have to kind of figure things out for? Or what's the formula where you could just start unplugging.

其次，我想跟進一下，探討如何超越無線網路營運商的角色。在出售頻譜的過程中，什麼時候可以拔掉無線電設備的電源，從而不再滿足最低使用要求，但又能開始透過這種方式節省資金？是指這些交易完成的時候嗎？還是說現在你們已經宣布了一些交易，但可能還有一些交易需要你們去弄清楚？或者，有什麼方法可以讓你直接開始拔掉電源？

Yeah. On the second part of that, we really need to work to regulators on that. And so those discussions are ongoing. And so it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss that. But obviously, we'll have more color on that early next year.

是的。關於第二部分，我們確實需要與監管機構合作。因此，這些討論仍在進行中。因此，討論這個問題並不合適。但很顯然，明年年初我們會對此有更詳細的說明。

I'm going to give you a general answer because a very good question about what might happen between now and February. You asked a good question. While I think we pivot, two pivots in our company. One is the pivot to be a capital-rich company, maybe more asset light. But the other pivot is within EchoStar, where I'm going to be involved in the day-to-day operations now is to pivot to long-term thinking.

關於從現在到二月可能發生的事情，這是一個很好的問題，所以我將給出一個概括性的答案。你問了個好問題。雖然我認為我們公司會進行兩次轉型。一是轉型成為資本雄厚的公司，或許可以採取更輕資產的策略。但另一個轉變發生在 EchoStar 內部，我現在將參與日常運營，目的是轉向長期思考。

So we had to think about things short term because we're putting all our capital into the build-out of our network. And we had lots of requirements, regulatory to do that. So we did that. So we had to think about things and the rest of our business is in a short-term way. That historically is not the way we think as a company.

所以我們必須從短期角度來考慮問題，因為我們把所有的資金都投入了網路建設。我們有很多監管方面的要求才能做到這一點。於是我們就這麼做了。所以我們必須認真考慮這些問題，而我們其餘的業務都是著眼於短期利益的。從公司歷史來看，我們並不是這樣思考的。

One of our principles is to take long term, and we can get back to that principle now. And so I think you'll see that by thinking about things long term, maybe we'll take a little bit of a step backward short term because when you go from short term to long term, a little bit of a step backward, but I think you'll see that in general sort of way, we'll be more competitive in terms of what we're doing in some of our businesses, we think about things in terms of long-term cash.

我們的原則之一是著眼長遠，現在我們可以回歸這項原則了。所以我認為你會發現，從長遠角度考慮問題，或許短期內我們會稍微退後一步，因為從短期轉向長期，總會有一點倒退，但我認為你會發現，總的來說，在某些業務方面，我們會更有競爭力，因為我們會從長期現金流的角度來考慮問題。

We don't really think about it for EBITDA and those kind of metrics. We think about deploying capital where we get a return. And we think about strategically, particularly in wireless, where you really kind of cable companies that are basically doing the same thing. How do we do some things differently and how do we look like a little bit different animal than what everybody else is doing.

我們其實不會把它納入 EBITDA 之類的指標考量。我們考慮將資金投入到能夠獲得回報的地方。我們從策略角度考慮問題，尤其是在無線領域，你會發現有線電視公司基本上也在做同樣的事情。我們如何以不同的方式做事，如何讓自己看起來與其他人不同？

And we were building the highway, and we were Uber and we were building the highway. Now we get to be Uber, and we just rent the highway. And so for that, that puts us a little bit different situation and I don't think people truly understand the efficiency of what we call a hybrid MNO where we rent the radios, but we have the core, basically the brain, the cloud and how the system operates.

我們當時正在興建高速公路，我們就是 Uber，我們當時正在興建高速公路。現在我們可以當優步了，我們只需要租用高速公路就行了。因此，這使我們處於一種略有不同的境地，我認為人們並沒有真正理解我們所說的混合型行動網路營運商的效率，在這種運營商中，我們租用無線電設備，但我們擁有核心（基本上是大腦）、雲端以及系統運作方式。

So we can have a differentiated experience for our customers. We do get a lot of data from what we're doing with customers, so we can make that experience better and automate that experience. And yeah, we don't have the burden of building and maintaining the towers, which normally wouldn't be a problem, but our scale is so small that, that was a challenge for us.

這樣我們就能為客戶帶來差異化的體驗。我們從與客戶的互動中獲得了大量數據，因此我們可以改善客戶體驗並實現體驗自動化。是的，我們沒有建造和維護信號塔的負擔，這通常不是問題，但我們的規模太小，這對我們來說是一個挑戰。

So I don't know that I totally answered your question, but from a big picture, we're going to be thinking a little bit longer term in the core business.

所以，我不知道我是否完全回答了你的問題，但從大局來看，我們將在核心業務方面進行更長遠的思考。

Benjamin Swinburne, Morgan Stanley

班傑明‧斯溫伯恩，摩根士丹利

Thank you. Charlie, good to have you back on the call. Appreciate your time. I was curious if you could talk about any opportunity to sort of wrap the remaining AWS-3 spectrum that hasn't been sold with the upcoming auction where you are, as you know, on the hook for any shortfall with a multi-billion dollar liability. Is there any opportunity with the FCC to sort of combine those two to try to monetize the spectrum and also kind of derisk the auction from an EchoStar perspective, with limited thoughts if you have any to share.

謝謝。查理，很高興你又能參與通話了。感謝您抽出時間。我很好奇您是否可以談談是否有任何機會，將尚未售出的剩餘 AWS-3 頻譜納入即將舉行的拍賣中。您也知道，如果拍賣結果有任何差額，您將承擔數十億美元的債務。FCC是否有可能將這兩者結合起來，嘗試將頻譜貨幣化，並從EchoStar的角度來看降低拍賣風險？如果您有任何想法，請不吝分享。

Yeah, Ben, it's a good question and I'm not going to answer, but I'll talk about the edges of it. I mean, obviously, the this FCC put us in a difficult situation. We went kind of through the five stages of Greek denial and anger and depression and now we're at acceptance, of course.

是的，本，這是一個很好的問題，但我不會直接回答，不過我會談談它的邊緣問題。我的意思是，很顯然，聯邦通訊委員會讓我們陷入了困境。我們經歷了希臘神話中否認、憤怒和憂鬱的五個階段，現在我們當然已經到了接受的階段。

And that's diversity from our perspective. But the second thing is we really haven't talked with the FCC folks for a couple of years. And once we started having conversations, we've gotten on the same path. And this FCC has quite the vision, we didn't totally agree with it, but they want spectrum to get used more quickly and for the benefit of more Americans, and it's hard to argue with that vision.

這就是我們從中看到的多元化。但第二件事是，我們已經好幾年沒有和聯邦通訊委員會（FCC）的人談過了。一旦我們開始交談，我們就走上了同一條道路。而聯邦通訊委員會（FCC）確實很有遠見，我們雖然不完全贊同，但他們希望頻譜能夠更快地被利用，造福更多的美國人，這種願景很難反駁。

And once we've once we started communicating now we're in lockstep really with where the FCC wants to go, and it's our job to now work with them and make sure all our assets get put to the best use of American public.

一旦我們開始溝通，我們現在就與聯邦通信委員會（FCC）的目標步調一致，我們的工作就是與他們合作，確保我們所有的資源都能為美國公眾帶來最大的利益。

Part of that indirectly goes to your question, if you look at the AWS-3 auction coming up, there potentially are ways to make that the most efficient options. And we're in the process of those discussions with the FCC and others will have input into that as well. But we at least have a sounding board to say, how can we share your vision this FCC to get the spectrum in use as quickly as possible.

這部分間接地回答了你的問題，如果你看看即將舉行的 AWS-3 拍賣，可能會發現有一些方法可以使其成為最有效的選擇。我們正在與聯邦通訊委員會進行這些討論，其他方面也會參與其中並提出意見。但至少我們有了一個可以傾訴的對象，可以告訴我們，如何與聯邦通訊委員會分享你們的願景，以便盡快利用頻譜資源。

And in the hands of people that will compete with it. One of the great things about the AT&T deal we did is because of our hybrid mono deal with AT&T. We get to actually use the spectrum that we sold them. So you can think about those things in a different way. And they have a vision of where they want to go.

落入那些會與它競爭的人手中。我們與 AT&T 達成的協議最棒的一點就是我們與 AT&T 達成了混合單一協議。我們終於能用上我們賣給他們的光譜了。所以你可以換個角度去思考這些問題。他們對未來的發展方向有著清晰的願景。

They're going to be the most influential FCC that I've worked with ever and so it's our job to help them get there where they want to go, and that's what we're going to do.

這將是我合作過的最有影響力的聯邦通訊委員會，所以我們的工作就是幫助他們實現目標，而這正是我們要做的事情。

That's helpful. And just a follow-up on the Boost business now that you're running it. The history of MVNOs, these are typically not great businesses, and I know this is a hybrid MVNO. But you sound excited about the opportunity it's got revenue scale, but it's at least to a degree, but it's still burning a lot of cash flow.

那很有幫助。既然您現在負責經營 Boost 業務，我想跟進一下。從 MVNO 的歷史來看，這些通常都不是什麼成功的企業，我知道這是一個混合型 MVNO。但聽起來你對這個機會感到興奮，它確實有營收規模，但至少在某種程度上是這樣，它仍然在消耗大量的現金流。

I know you're going to start decommissioning you've started decommissioning the network. Just can you talk about, I guess, the strategic vision for the business? And then I don't know if there's any help you can give us on the path to getting this thing to cash flow positive now that you've switched models.

我知道你們已經開始停用該網路了。您能否談談貴公司的策略願景？既然你們已經改變了模式，我不知道你們能否在如何讓這個專案實現正現金流方面給我們任何幫助。

Yeah. So the strategy is simple. We have to do things, we have to do two things. Right. And if you look at any company that's the fourth or fifth player, this is what they have to do to be successful. You have to do two things. You have to use technology in a way to be different.

是的。所以策略很簡單。我們必須做幾件事，我們必須做兩件事。正確的。如果你看看那些排名第四或第五的公司，你會發現，為了取得成功，他們必須這麼做。你必須做兩件事。你必須以與眾不同的方式運用科技。

And you have to do things that the other guys aren't doing or they could do, but they won't do. It didn't make sense for them to do it. So on the technology side, we've already made our first strategic move, which is an agreement with SpaceX for our Boost customers to have worldwide connectivity to the handset, both for voice, text and broadband.

你必須做其他人沒做或他們能做但卻不願意做的事情。他們這樣做毫無意義。因此，在技術方面，我們已經採取了第一個策略舉措，即與 SpaceX 達成協議，使我們的 Boost 用戶能夠透過手機在全球範圍內進行語音、簡訊和寬頻連線。

So I'm sure others will follow suit with SpaceX. But many carriers have some choice as to who they might sign up with. And so there's a wide variety of where those carriers are going. We are highly confident that we have aligned with which the company is going to have the best technology and we can do some things different than others. So we've already started that.

所以我相信其他公司也會效法SpaceX的做法。但許多業者在選擇合作對象方面有一定的自主權。因此，這些航空公司的航線多種多樣。我們非常有信心，我們已經與擁有最佳技術的公司達成了一致，我們可以做一些與其他人不同的事情。所以我們已經開始這麼做了。

That's 2-years away, probably realistically, but that we've already started. How do we do things differently. I think is for our team to come up, we'll officially start like Monday. So we'll start having strategic sessions on how we can think about how we do some things differently. I don't think it's a good path. I don't think we can be successful if we look just like the other guys. They just have too much scale.

現實點說，可能還需要兩年時間，但我們已經開始著手做了。我們如何才能做得不一樣？我認為應該由我們團隊來組建，我們大概是週一正式開始。所以我們將開始召開策略會議，探討如何以不同的方式思考和處理一些事情。我認為這不是一條好路。如果我們看起來和別人一樣，我認為我們不可能成功。它們規模太大了。

And any help on just getting the business to profitability. I don't know how much the expense base goes away, would you fully convert anything like that?

任何能幫助企業獲利的幫助都非常感謝。我不知道費用基數會減少多少，你會把這類事情全部轉換嗎？

Those of you who have been with us for 30-years as a public company knows that we'd like to run things for cash, and we don't like losing money. So, we'll have a lot more on that. But I think that as you move to long-term thinking, that becomes an easier path in short term, always difficult.

和我們這家上市公司一起走過 30 年的各位都知道，我們希望用現金經營，我們不喜歡賠錢。所以，我們之後會對此進行更多報道。但我認為，當你開始從長遠角度思考問題時，這條路就會變得更容易；而短期內，這條路總是很艱難。

But that's just the cards that we had to play short term. Now we get to play a bit better. We're better as a company when we're thinking long term. And we're definitely going to be. And again, I think we're nature of our hybrid MNO, it's underestimated by the market. People try to say it's an M&A or that. It's a different animal. The A&T network that we ride on is a great network with our spectrum.

但這只是我們短期內不得不採取的措施。現在我們可以發揮得更好一些了。公司只有著眼長遠，才能發展得更好。我們肯定會這麼做。而且我認為，我們混合型行動網路營運商的本質被市場低估了。人們總是說這是併購之類的。這是完全不同的情況。我們所使用的A&T網路擁有我們所需的頻譜資源，是一個非常好的網路。

They're already putting our C-band to use, it's my understanding some of it. So that network is only going to get better. And so I think we certainly will be more competitive than we have been in the past.

據我了解，他們已經在使用我們的 C 波段設備了。所以這個網路只會越來越好。所以我認為我們肯定會比以往更有競爭力。

Yeah. So adding to that, one of the things that hopefully shortens the path to profitability. It's the reduction of the fixed cost of the business, which you can imagine is drastic. Certainly from the network side, we needed much greater scale to reach that profitability going to retire the fixed cost, obviously, not having that shortens the horizons tremendously.

是的。因此，除此之外，還有一件事有望縮短實現盈利的路徑。這是企業固定成本的大幅降低，你可以想像這有多大。當然，從網路方面來看，我們需要更大的規模才能獲利，從而消除固定成本，顯然，沒有這樣的規模會大大縮短獲利期限。

And second, having an MVNO deal with AT&T, kind of makes our cost more valuable on a usage basis. So again, another way to create operating leverage for us as the more we sell, I mean, obviously, we don't need to have a large scale in order to restart.

其次，與 AT&T 達成 MVNO 協議，從使用量的角度來看，使我們的成本更具性價比。所以，隨著銷售量的增加，我們又有了另一個創造經營槓桿的方法。我的意思是，顯然，我們不需要大規模生產就能重新啟動。

So all the strategic that Charlie is talking about should get us to profitability in a much sort of horizon that you would have originally modeled we're not going to give you that today. But obviously, as time goes on, that information may become more available to you. Be excited about.

所以查理所說的所有戰略都應該能讓我們在比你最初設想的更短的時間內實現盈利，但我們今天不會告訴你具體時間。但很顯然，隨著時間的推移，你可能會更容易獲得這些資訊。令人興奮。

We're really excited about our ability to develop that business as the most scaled and hybrid MVNO, MVNO model in the marketplace with the benefit of having a custom space. and having to the great coverage of AT&T, which is using our spectrum now will be the best coverage utilization in our view.

我們非常興奮能夠將這項業務發展成為市場上規模最大、混合型的MVNO模式，並擁有客製化空間的優勢。此外，AT&T目前正在使用我們的頻譜，其強大的網路覆蓋率將帶來最佳的頻譜利用率。

Bryan Kraft, Deutsche Bank AG

布萊恩‧克拉夫特，德意志銀行

Hi, good morning. I had a few, if I could. First, as a follow-up on the tax side. I was wondering if you could confirm that there will be a tax benefit from the impairment charge that you're taking today? And is that benefit excluded from the $7 billion to $10 billion range that you cited. Secondly, just a follow-up on AWS-3 and the auction. Does the timing of the auction matter as it relates to you selling the paired AWS-3 licenses.

您好，早安。如果可以的話，我想多吃幾個。首先，作為稅務方面的後續工作。我想確認一下，您今天提列的減損費用是否會帶來稅務優惠？這項收益是否包含在您提到的 70 億至 100 億美元的範圍內？其次，我想跟進一下 AWS-3 和拍賣事宜。對於您出售配對的 AWS-3 授權而言，拍賣時間是否重要？

Is it optimal to wait? Is it better to do it first? Just wondering how you're thinking about that and then also the converts, I was wondering if ultimately you plan to settle those in cash or stock. And then lastly, I would just love to hear your latest thoughts, Charlie, on a potential DBS merger with DIRECTV at this point in time.

等待是否為最佳選擇？先做這件事是不是更好？我只是想知道你對此有何考慮，還有那些轉換股份，我想知道你最終是打算用現金還是股票來結算。最後，查理，我很想聽聽你對星展銀行與 DIRECTV 目前可能合併的最新看法。

Paul, do you want to take that?

保羅，你想拿嗎？

Yeah. This is Paul. Good question there. I'll take the tax question. As it relates to the impairment charge, some of the items have already been deducted. For instance, we take bonus depreciation on the network or amortize the FCC spectrum we won't get a benefit of that. But the other costs, we will. And to answer your question, is that included in the $7 billion to $10 billion range, Yes, that is.

是的。這是保羅。問得好。我來回答稅務問題。關於減損費用，部分項目已扣除。例如，如果我們對網路進行額外折舊或攤提 FCC 頻譜，我們將無法從中受益。但其他費用，我們會負擔。至於你的問題，這是否包含在 70 億至 100 億美元的範圍內？是的，包含在內。

And this is Charlie. In terms of AWS timing, and so again. That's -- I wish I can give you more information, but we're really working with the FCC to make that, a, to make sure the most successful auction. Possible and the spectrum gets used as quickly as possible.

這是查理。就 AWS 的時間安排而言，情況也是如此。那是——我希望我能提供更多信息，但我們正在與聯邦通信委員會 (FCC) 合作，以確保拍賣取得最大成功。有可能，並且頻譜會盡快利用。

But again, it's a pretty valuable spectrum. I'd say that. And as welfare as it converts, we can call those converts as to whether we call them or not. And if so, is it cash or stock or some combination of that, that would just be premature to speculate on that today. And Hamid, maybe I'll throw it over to you on DIRECTV.

但話說回來，這仍然是一個很有價值的光譜。我也這麼認為。而作為福利制度的轉化者，我們可以稱這些轉化者為「我們是否稱他們為『轉化者』」。如果是這樣，是現金、股票還是兩者兼具？現在就對此進行推測還為時過早。哈米德，或許我會把直播轉給你，用 DIRECTV 看。

Yeah. Certainly, at EchoStar Capital, we look at every opportunity for value creation to inorganic transactions. DISH and DIRECTV, that always has seemed like a natural combination, and it's been an in-house combination. Our track record of making that work has not been great. So it's hard to predict how you might go.

是的。當然，在 EchoStar Capital，我們會關注每一個透過非有機交易創造價值的機會。DISH 和 DIRECTV 的結合一直顯得水到渠成，而且一直以來都是內部整合。我們在這方面所取得的成績並不理想。所以很難預測你的未來會如何發展。

But certainly, we will always look at any opportunity to take advantage of assets we have in-house with a transaction I can't make any prediction right now about how that might go. But that item has always been on our radar, and Charlie has been very vocal about the fact that the combination of the two companies would create significant on terminous amount of value.

當然，我們總是會尋找任何機會，利用我們內部擁有的資產進行交易。我現在無法預測交易結果會如何。但這件事一直都在我們的關注範圍內，查理也多次公開表示，兩家公司的合併將創造巨大的最終價值。

Operator, we'll have time for one more question.

接線員，我們還有時間再回答一個問題。

Chris Quilty, Quilty Space.

克里斯·奎爾蒂，奎爾蒂空間。

Thanks. I was hoping you could possibly give a long-term update on the plans for one of those operating businesses Hughes. You've obviously got downturns in the VSAT business and the consumer broadband. It looks like growing? Are there thoughts on either growing that business organically or non-organically? And what markets are you most focused on?

謝謝。我希望您能就休斯旗下某家營運企業的長期計畫提供一些最新進展。很明顯，VSAT業務和消費者寬頻業務都出現了下滑。看起來像在生長？對於透過有機成長還是非有機成長來發展這項業務，您有什麼想法？您最關注哪些市場？

Yeah. Chris, you regarding Hughes, as you know, we have been in a multiyear journey at use at least 3-years now to transition that business more towards an enterprise business from a consumer business and purely from the realization and understanding that the consumer connectivity to satellite is now highly competitive, given that SpaceX offerings and perhaps in the future, other LEO offerings such as Kuiper.

是的。克里斯，關於休斯公司，正如你所知，我們已經進行了多年的轉型，至少有三年時間，將這項業務從消費業務更多地轉向企業業務，這完全是因為我們意識到並理解，鑑於 SpaceX 的產品，以及未來可能出現的其他 LEO 產品（如 Kuiper），消費者與衛星的連接現在競爭非常激烈。

We recognized years ago that we could not have a LEO system in a broadband side to compete with those. So we started shifting towards enterprise. Our expectation is that as early as next year, we'll be crossing over the 50% mark on enterprise revenue we have had significant progress in aero, which we had almost no share on 3-years ago, and now we are only on a couple of companies in the world that are growing on the aero side.

我們多年前就意識到，我們不可能在寬頻領域擁有一個低地球軌道（LEO）系統來與之競爭。所以我們開始向企業級市場轉型。我們預計最早明年，我們的企業收入佔比將超過 50%。我們在航空航太領域取得了顯著進展，而 3 年前我們在該領域幾乎沒有任何份額，現在我們只與世界上少數幾家在航空航太領域實現成長的公司合作。

So there are some progress being made in there we're happy with that. We still have a long journey to make use much larger scale in the enterprise. We are on the Gartner's leader quadrant as one of the few, in fact, in their industry, in its industry, there is none other than Hughes on the Gartner's leader quadrant. So it shows the ability of Hughes to serve global brands across the world.

所以這方面取得了一些進展，我們對此感到滿意。我們距離在企業中更大規模地應用這項技術還有很長的路要走。我們名列 Gartner 領導者象限，事實上，在他們的行業中，除了 Hughes 之外，沒有其他公司能名列 Gartner 領導者象限。這展現了休斯公司為全球品牌提供服務的能力。

We'll try to monetize and maximize that if there's any sort of M&A opportunity, as I mentioned on the list of areas, domains where we will be looking for additional M&A. You saw three or four of those actually fall within the Hughes per view, that's aero, the space. We talked about enterprise services.

如我之前在我們將尋求額外併購的領域清單中所提到的那樣，如果出現任何併購機會，我們將嘗試將其貨幣化並最大化。你看到其中三四個實際上都落在了休斯的視野範圍內，那是航空，是空間。我們討論了企業服務。

We talked about defense and domestic manufacturing, which I think all of those are areas where we have green shoots and a good understanding of the trends. And if there's an EchoStar Capital, if you find opportunities in any of those domains that will enhance user's position will take advantage of that.

我們討論了國防和國內製造業，我認為所有這些領域我們都看到了復甦的跡象，並且對發展趨勢有了很好的了解。如果有像 EchoStar Capital 這樣的公司，如果你在這些領域中發現能夠提升用戶地位的機會，就會加以利用。

That concludes our call. Thanks for joining. Thanks, everybody. Thank you.

通話到此結束。謝謝參與。謝謝大家。謝謝。