Safehold Inc (SAFE) 2025 Q1 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to Safehold's first quarter 2025 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions) As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. At this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the conference over to Pearse Hoffmann, Senior Vice President and Head of Corporate Finance. Please go ahead, sir.

早安，歡迎參加 Safehold 2025 年第一季財報電話會議。（操作員指示）提醒一下，今天的會議正在被錄音。現在，為了致開幕詞和介紹，我想將會議交給高級副總裁兼公司財務主管皮爾斯·霍夫曼 (Pearse Hoffmann)。先生，請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for Safehold's earnings call. On the call today, we have Jay Sugarman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Brett Asnas, Chief Financial Officer; and Tim Doherty, Chief Investment Officer.

大家早安。感謝您今天參加 Safehold 的收益電話會議。參加今天電話會議的有董事長兼首席執行官傑伊·舒格曼 (Jay Sugarman)、首席財務官布雷特·阿斯納斯 (Brett Asnas) 和首席投資官蒂姆·多赫蒂 (Tim Doherty)。

This morning we plan to walk through a presentation that details our first quarter 2025 results. The presentation can be found on our website at safeholdinc.com by clicking on the investors link. There will be a replay of this conference call beginning at 2:00 PM Eastern Time today. The dial in for the replay is (877) 481-4010 with a confirmation code of 52368.

今天上午，我們計劃進行一次演示，詳細介紹我們 2025 年第一季的業績。您可以點擊投資者連結在我們的網站 safeholdinc.com 上找到該簡報。本次電話會議將於今天美國東部時間下午 2:00 開始重播。重播的撥入號碼為 (877) 481-4010，確認碼為 52368。

In order to accommodate all those who wish to ask questions, we ask that participants limit themselves to two questions during Q&A. If you'd like to ask additional questions, you may re-enter the queue.

為了方便所有想要提問的人，我們要求參與者在問答期間只提出兩個問題。如果您想詢問其他問題，您可以重新進入佇列。

Before I turn the call over to Jay, I'd like to remind everyone that statements in this earnings call, which are not historical facts, may be forward-looking. Our actual results may differ materially from these forward-looking statements, and the risk factors that could cause these differences are detailed in our SEC reports.

在我將電話轉給傑伊之前，我想提醒大家，這次收益電話會議中的陳述並非歷史事實，而是前瞻性的。我們的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大差異，可能導致這些差異的風險因素在我們的 SEC 報告中詳細說明。

Safehold disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements except as expressly required by law. Now with that, I'd like to turn it over to Chairman and CEO, Jay Sugarman. Jay?

除非法律明確要求，Safehold 不承擔更新這些前瞻性聲明的任何意圖或義務。現在，我想將發言權交給董事長兼執行長傑伊舒格曼 (Jay Sugarman)。傑伊？

Thanks, Pearse, and good morning to everyone joining us today. While many of the deals we hoped to close in the first quarter were waylaid by market volatility, markets are beginning to adjust, and we're finding ways to provide the capital our customers need to lock down their deals.

謝謝皮爾斯，今天參加我們的所有人早安。雖然我們希望在第一季完成的許多交易都因市場波動而受阻，但市場正在開始調整，我們正在尋找方法為客戶提供完成交易所需的資金。

Rates remain high relative to forward inflation expectations, but it's hard to predict when markets will fully stabilize or when the rates backdrop will be more favorable. In the meantime, we're working closely with customers to find solutions to their needs and deploy capital that can represent attractive risk adjusted returns to Safehold.

相對於預期通膨，利率仍然很高，但很難預測市場何時會完全穩定，或者利率背景何時會更有利。同時，我們正在與客戶密切合作，尋找滿足他們需求的解決方案，並部署能夠為 Safehold 帶來有吸引力的風險調整回報的資本。

We have two goals in mind as we continue to build the business. Reach a scale that starts to unlock the full value of the business for shareholders and continue expanding the universe of customers who can benefit from the long-term lower cost capital and stability that a Safehold ground lease can provide.

在繼續發展業務的過程中，我們牢記兩個目標。達到一定的規模，開始為股東釋放業務的全部價值，並繼續擴大可從 Safehold 土地租賃所提供的長期低成本資本和穩定性中受益的客戶範圍。

We need to be aggressive and tireless in these efforts and believe the payoff will be well worth the significant investment of time and resources we are committing. All right, let me turn it over to Brett to review the quarter and full year in more detail.

我們需要積極、不懈地努力，並相信回報將非常值得我們投入大量的時間和資源。好的，讓我把這個交給布雷特來更詳細地回顧一下本季和全年的情況。

Thank you, Jay. Good morning, everyone. Let's begin on slide 2. 2025 has been a challenging environment for new deals as the combination of interest rate volatility and market uncertainty has re-priced capital and slow decision making for our customers.

謝謝你，傑伊。大家早安。讓我們從第 2 張投影片開始。 2025 年對於新交易來說是一個充滿挑戰的環境，因為利率波動和市場不確定性的結合重新定價了資本並減緩了客戶的決策。

This impacted Q1 investment activity as several transactions we expected to close during the quarter were delayed, resulting in no new originations for the quarter.

這影響了第一季的投資活動，因為我們預計在本季完成的幾筆交易被推遲，導致本季沒有新的交易發起。

That said, our team remains highly engaged with both new and existing customers. The pace of signed LOIs has picked up, and our pipeline is further along today than at the same point last year. We have non-binding LOIs totaling approximately $386 million for potential commitments across 11 ground leases and four loans.

儘管如此，我們的團隊仍然與新舊客戶保持著高度的聯繫。簽署意向書的速度已經加快，與去年同期相比，現在我們的管道進展更順利。我們擁有總額約為 3.86 億美元的非約束性意向書，涉及 11 項土地租賃和 4 筆貸款的潛在承諾。

While certain of these transactions have closed in Q2, there could be no assurances that the rest of these transactions will close.

雖然其中一些交易已在第二季完成，但無法保證其餘交易也將完成。

Credit metrics are strong at current base rates we're expecting contractual returns in the low 7% range before factoring in CPI and Caret, which we believe is highly compelling. 6 of the 11 ground leases under LOI are in the affordable housing space, continuing our momentum in that sector, which we expect to be a meaningful growth contributor moving forward.

在當前基準利率下，信貸指標表現強勁，我們預計合約回報率在考慮 CPI 和 Caret 因素之前將在 7% 的低位，我們認為這是非常有吸引力的。意向書 (LOI) 下的 11 個土地租賃中有 6 個屬於經濟適用房領域，這延續了我們在該領域的發展勢頭，我們預計該領域將成為未來有意義的成長貢獻者。

We're working with 11 unique sponsors, 9 of which are new to our program, which not only demonstrates the reach of our product, but bodes well for our future business as roughly 40% of our portfolio is repeat business.

我們正在與 11 個獨特的贊助商合作，其中 9 個是我們計劃的新贊助商，這不僅展示了我們產品的影響力，而且對我們未來的業務來說也是一個好兆頭，因為我們投資組合中大約 40% 是回頭客。

At quarter end, the total portfolio was $6.8 billion. UCA was estimated at $8.9 billion, GLTV was 52%, and rent coverage was 3.5 times. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion of liquidity, which is further supported by the potential available capacity in our joint venture.

截至本季末，投資組合總額為 68 億美元。 UCA估值為 89 億美元，GLTV 為 52%，租金覆蓋率為 3.5 倍。本季末，我們的流動資金約為 13 億美元，這得益於我們合資企業的潛在可用產能。

Slide 3 provides a snapshot of our portfolio growth. In the first quarter, we funded a total of $20 million, which consisted of $16 million of ground lease fundings on pre-existing commitments that have a 6.7% economic yield and $4 million related to our share of the leasehold loan fund, which earned interest at a rate of SOFR plus 386 basis points.

幻燈片 3 提供了我們投資組合成長的快照。在第一季度，我們總共提供了 2000 萬美元的資金，其中包括 1,600 萬美元的土地租賃資金（基於預先存在的承諾，經濟收益率為 6.7%）以及 400 萬美元與我們在租賃貸款基金中的份額相關的資金，其利率為 SOFR 加 386 個基點。

Our ground lease portfolio has 147 assets and has grown 20 times by both book value and estimated unrealized capital appreciation since our IPO. We have 85 multi-family ground leases in the portfolio and have increased our exposure from 8% by count at IPO to 58% today.

我們的土地租賃組合擁有 147 項資產，自首次公開募股以來，帳面價值和預計未實現資本增值均成長了 20 倍。我們的投資組合中有 85 個多戶型土地租賃，並且我們的敞口已從 IPO 時的 8% 增加到今天的 58%。

In total, the unrealized capital appreciation portfolio is comprised of approximately 36 million square feet of institutional quality commercial real estate, consisting of approximately 20,000 multi-family units, 12.5 million square feet of office, over 5,000 hotel keys, and 2 million square feet of life science and other property types.

總體而言，未實現資本增值組合由約 3,600 萬平方英尺的機構品質商業房地產組成，其中包括約 20,000 個多戶型單元、1250 萬平方英尺的辦公室、超過 5,000 間酒店房間以及 200 萬平方英尺的生命科學和其他類型的物業。

Continuing on slide 4, let me detail our quarterly earnings results. For the first quarter, GAAP revenue was $97.7 million, net income was $29.4 million, and earnings per share was $0.41. The decline in GAAP earnings year over year was primarily due to an increase in other expenses driven by a non-recurring $1.9 million loss on a preferred equity investment in a Washington DC office leasehold interest.

繼續第 4 張投影片，讓我詳細介紹我們的季度收益結果。第一季度，GAAP 營收為 9,770 萬美元，淨利為 2,940 萬美元，每股收益為 0.41 美元。 GAAP 收益較去年同期下降的主要原因是其他費用增加，這主要源自於華盛頓特區辦公大樓租賃權益優先股投資的非經常性損失 190 萬美元。

The leasehold was being marketed for sale with a portion of property taxes under appeal. We advanced funds to cover those taxes, as we believed any unpaid amounts would have been an overhang on the sale process. The leasehold successfully changed hands recently, and we have a new tenant in place with a strong track record and fresh equity committed to the building.

該租賃權正在出售，部分房產稅正在上訴中。我們預付了資金來支付這些稅款，因為我們相信任何未付的金額都會對銷售過程造成阻礙。租賃權最近成功易手，我們有了一位新租戶，他擁有良好的業績記錄，並為該建築注入了新的資產。

Safehold will provide additional financing for building upgrades and leasing, and in return will receive equity participation in the leasehold should it outperform.

Safehold 將為建築升級和租賃提供額外融資，作為回報，如果租賃業績優異，Safehold 將獲得租賃股權參與權。

We believe this solution is a long-term positive for the asset. A portion of the taxes paid may be recovered in the future, but given our lack of visibility and confidence in the appeal process, we decided to write off our preferred equity investment.

我們相信這個解決方案對於資產來說是一個長期的利好。所繳納的稅款的一部分可能會在未來被收回，但鑑於我們對上訴過程缺乏了解和信心，我們決定註銷優先股投資。

Excluding this one-time non-recurring loss, Q1 earnings per share increased slightly year over year, driven by higher net earnings on investment fundings and percentage rent offset by an increase in our non-cash general provision, primarily driven by higher GLTVs, and lower earnings from equity method investments, primarily due to repayments in the leasehold loan fund.

除此一次性非經常性損失外，第一季每股收益同比略有增加，主要由於投資資金淨收益和租金百分比增加，但被非現金一般準備金增加所抵消，這主要由於 GLTV 增加，以及權益法投資收益減少，這主要由於租賃貸款基金的償還。

On slide 5, we detail our portfolio's yields. For GAAP earnings, the portfolio currently earns a 3.7% cash yield and a 5.4% annualized yield. Annualized yield includes non-cash adjustments within rent, depreciation, and amortization, which is primarily from accounting methodology on IPO assets, but excludes all future contractual variable rent, such as fair market value resets, percentage rent, or CPI based escalators, which are all significant economic drivers.

在第 5 張投影片上，我們詳細介紹了我們投資組合的收益率。就 GAAP 收益而言，該投資組合目前的現金收益率為 3.7%，年化收益率為 5.4%。年化收益率包括租金、折舊和攤銷中的非現金調整，主要來自 IPO 資產的會計方法，但不包括所有未來合約可變租金，例如公平市場價值重置、百分比租金或基於 CPI 的自動調整，這些都是重要的經濟驅動因素。

On an economic basis, the portfolio generates a 5.8% economic yield, which is an IRR-based calculation that conforms with how we've underwritten these investments. This economic yield has additional upside, including periodic CPI look backs which we have in 83% of our ground leases.

從經濟角度來看，該投資組合產生 5.8% 的經濟收益率，這是基於 IRR 的計算，符合我們承保這些投資的方式。這種經濟利益還有額外的上升空間，包括我們在 83% 的土地租賃中都有定期的 CPI 回顧。

Using the Federal Reserve's current long-term break even inflation rate of 2.2%. the 5.8% economic yield increases to a 5.9% inflation adjusted yield. That 5.9% inflation adjusted yield then increases to 7.4%. After layering in an estimate for unrealized capital appreciation using Safehold's 84% ownership interest in Caret at its most recent $2 billion valuation.

使用聯準會目前的長期盈虧平衡通膨率 2.2%，5.8% 的經濟收益率將增加到 5.9% 的通膨調整收益率。經通膨調整後的收益率 5.9% 上升至 7.4%。在以 Safehold 在 Caret 的 84% 所有權權益（最近 20 億美元的估值）為基礎，對未實現資本增值進行估算之後。

We believe unrealized capital appreciation in our assets to be a significant source of value for the company that remains largely unrecognized by the market today.

我們相信，我們資產中未實現的資本增值是公司價值的重要來源，但目前市場在很大程度上仍未意識到這一點。

Turning to slide 6, we highlight the diversification of our portfolio by location and underlying property type. Our top 10 markets by gross book value are called out on the right, representing approximately 66% of the portfolio. We include key metrics such as rent coverage and GLTV for each of these markets, and we have additional detail at the bottom of the page by region and property type.

轉到投影片 6，我們重點介紹了我們投資組合按地點和基礎資產類型的多樣化。以總帳面價值計算，我們的前 10 個市場列於右側，約佔投資組合的 66%。我們列出了每個市場的租金覆蓋率和 GLTV 等關鍵指標，並且在頁面底部按地區和房產類型提供了更多詳細資訊。

Portfolio GLTV, which is based on annual asset appraisals from CBRE, increased quarter over quarter from 49% to 52%. This increase is not surprising as Q1 is our largest office revaluation quarter with approximately two-thirds of the office portfolio getting reappraised. We target low attachment points in our ground leases to avoid being impacted by these temporary fluctuations. Although property appraisals declined, rent coverage on the portfolio was unchanged quarter over quarter at 3.5 times.

基於世邦魏理仕年度資產評估的投資組合 GLTV 環比成長從 49% 至 52%。這種成長並不令人意外，因為第一季是我們最大的辦公室重估季度，大約三分之二的辦公室投資組合被重新評估。我們在土地租賃中瞄準較低的附著點，以避免受到這些暫時波動的影響。儘管房地產估價下降，但投資組合的租金覆蓋率環比保持不變，為 3.5 倍。

We continue to believe that investing in well located institutional quality ground leases in the top 30 markets that have attractive risk adjusted returns will benefit the company and its stakeholders over long periods of time.

我們始終相信，投資前 30 個市場中位置優越、具有良好機構品質的土地租賃，並擁有具有吸引力的風 險調整後回報，將使公司及其利益相關者長期受益。

Lastly, on slide 7, we provide an overview of our capital structure. At year-end, we had approximately $4.7 billion of debt comprised of $2.2 billion of unsecured notes, $1.5 billion of non-recourse secured debt, $0.7 billion drawn on our unsecured revolver, and $0.3 billion of our pro rata share of debt on ground leases which we own in joint ventures. Our weighted average debt maturity is approximately 19 years, and we have no corporate maturity due until 2027.

最後，在第 7 張投影片上，我們概述了我們的資本結構。截至年底，我們的債務約為 47 億美元，其中包括 22 億美元的無擔保票據、15 億美元的無追索權擔保債務、7 億美元的無擔保循環信貸額度，以及 3 億美元的按比例承擔的合資企業土地租賃債務。我們的加權平均債務期限約為 19 年，而且我們沒有 2027 年之前到期的公司債務。

At quarter end, we had approximately $1.3 billion of cash and credit facility availability. We are rated A3 with stable outlook by Moody's, A- with stable outlook by Fitch, and BBB+ with positive outlook by S&P.

截至季末，我們擁有約 13 億美元的現金和信貸額度。我們的評級為穆迪 A3，前景穩定；惠譽 A-，前景穩定；標準普爾 BBB+，前景積極。

We have benefited from an active hedging strategy and remain well hedged on our limited floating rate borrowings. Of the $712 million revolver balance outstanding, $500 million is swapped at fixed SOFR at 3% through April 2028.

我們受益於積極的對沖策略，並且仍然對有限的浮動利率借款進行良好的對沖。在未償還的 7.12 億美元循環信貸餘額中，有 5 億美元將以 3% 的固定 SOFR 進行掉期，直至 2028 年 4 月。

We receive Swap payments on a current cash basis each month, and for the first quarter that produced cash interest savings of approximately $1.7 million that flowed through the P&L. We also have $250 million of long-term treasury locks at a weighted average rate of approximately 4.0%, and current gain position of approximately $30 million.

我們每月都會收到以現金為基礎的掉期付款，第一季產生的現金利息節省約為 170 萬美元，併計入損益表。我們還擁有 2.5 億美元的長期國庫鎖定，加權平均利率約為 4.0%，目前收益約為 3,000 萬美元。

Of this $250 million, $100 million notional was unwound in April and crystallized at a $13 million cash gain, and the remaining $150 million notional is active and outstanding with mark to market gain of approximately $17 million. These treasury locks are marked to market instruments currently recognized on the balance sheet, but not the P&L.

在這 2.5 億美元中，1 億美元的名義金額已於 4 月解除，並實現了 1,300 萬美元的現金收益，剩餘的 1.5 億美元名義金額仍處於活躍狀態且未償還，按市價計價的收益約為 1,700 萬美元。這些資金鎖定是按市價工具標記的，目前已在資產負債表上確認，但不在損益表中確認。

They can be unwound for cash at any point through their designated term. However, only when they are applied to long-term debt would they then be recognized in our P&L over time.

它們可以在指定期限內的任何時間以現金形式解除。然而，只有當它們應用於長期債務時，它們才會在我們的損益表中得到確認。

We are levered 1.96 times on a total debt to equity basis, which was flat versus last quarter. The effective interest rate on permanent debt is 4.2%, and the portfolio's cash interest rate on permanent debt is 3.8%. So to conclude, despite a difficult market, the team is finding success sourcing new deals and expanding our customer base.

我們的負債總額與股本比率為 1.96 倍，與上一季持平。永久債務的實際利率為4.2%，投資組合的永久債務現金利率為3.8%。總而言之，儘管市場困難，團隊仍成功尋找新交易並擴大客戶群。

We expect these efforts to translate into increasing investment activity in the near term. And if markets remain choppy or there's a more significant downturn, we believe owning a diversified pool of ground leases is an attractive place to be.

我們預計這些努力將在短期內轉化為投資活動的增加。如果市場持續波動或出現更嚴重的衰退，我們認為擁有多元化的土地租賃權將是一個有吸引力的選擇。

Growth has always been a driving force in our valuation, but at the current share price, we think it's worth highlighting what investors own because the discount to what we believe is fair value has grown so large. We have a balance sheet with no near term maturities, valuable in-place hedges, and significantly below market debt locked in for 19 years.

成長一直是我們估值的驅動力，但在當前股價下，我們認為值得強調投資人所持有的股票，因為我們認為的公允價值的折扣已經變得如此之大。我們的資產負債表上沒有短期到期債務、有價值的現有對沖，以及 19 年來鎖定的遠低於市場水平的債務。

At market discount rates, we believe there's approximately $10 or more per share value in this debt on our balance sheet alone. On the asset side, we own a diverse pool of high grade credit instruments, call protected and contractually compounding.

以市場折現率計算，我們認為僅在我們的資產負債表上，這筆債務的每股價值就約為 10 美元或更多。在資產方面，我們擁有多種高級信貸工具，包括呼叫保護和合約複利。

We also typically own eight to nine free options on CPI in our leases, which will increase returns and protect value should inflation remain sticky, plus a free option on the future underlying real estate currently appraised at nearly $9 billion, which we believe over time will return many multiples of our invested basis.

我們的租約中通常還擁有八到九個免費的 CPI 選擇權，這將在通貨膨脹持續存在的情況下增加回報並保護價值，另外還有一個免費的未來基礎房地產選擇權，目前估值近 90 億美元，我們相信隨著時間的推移，其回報率將是我們投資基礎的許多倍。

Part of the challenge in operating in a less traditional sector in the public market is there are no direct comps and investors typically have less experience with ground leases than they do other asset classes. At the current share price, we believe the portfolio is a mixed price asset.

在公開市場中較不傳統的領域開展業務所面臨的部分挑戰是，沒有直接的可比對象，而且投資者對土地租賃的經驗通常比對其他資產類別的經驗要少。以當前股價，我們認為該投資組合是混合價格資產。

While scaling the business remains our top priority, we are actively evaluating opportunities to take advantage of what we believe is a public versus private valuation disconnect on the existing portfolio, and we look forward to keeping the market updated on our progress. And with that, let me turn it back to Jay.

雖然擴大業務規模仍然是我們的首要任務，但我們正在積極評估機會，利用我們認為的現有投資組合中公開與私人估值脫節的優勢，我們期待讓市場了解我們的進展。現在，讓我把話題轉回傑伊身上。

Thanks, Brett. Let's go ahead and open it up for questions.

謝謝，布雷特。讓我們繼續回答問題。

(Operator Instructions)

（操作員指示）

Ronald Kamdem, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的羅納德‧坎登 (Ronald Kamdem)。

Hey, just two quick questions, I think you talked about sort of the pipeline a little bit here on the non-binding LOIs. Just wondering if you could give a little bit more color just on the sponsors, sort of the markets, and just what your expectations on the ability to sort of close this and in what time frame.

嘿，我只想問兩個簡單的問題，我想你在這裡稍微談論了一下關於非約束性意向書的管道。我只是想知道您是否可以提供更多關於贊助商、市場的信息，以及您對完成這項工作的能力和時間範圍的期望。

Sure, here's Tim. As you can see, there's a very robust pipeline here with the 11 deals, and we say that the majority are in a multi-family that includes existing deals that were helping recap, construction deals on market rate, as well as affordable, as you heard, from Brett, a lot of new clients here, also repeats which we, see a lot of, from our existing portfolio.

當然，這是提姆。如您所見，這裡有一個非常強大的管道，有 11 筆交易，我們認為大多數都是多戶型的，其中包括有助於回顧的現有交易、按市場價格進行的建設交易以及價格實惠的交易，正如您從 Brett 那裡聽到的，這裡有很多新客戶，也重複了我們在現有投資組合中看到的很多交易。

Location wise also very diverse, we have West Coast, Southeast, northeast, Midwest, all in this pipeline. So from our standpoint, it's a great pipeline and it shows the diversity of deals we can close on.

地點方面也非常多樣化，我們有西海岸、東南、東北、中西部，都在這條管道內。因此從我們的角度來看，這是一個很棒的管道，它展示了我們可以達成的多樣化交易。

Great. And then my quick follow-up is just on the difference between the ground lease versus the leasehold loan value. Just maybe talk us through sort of the benefits of that, to you guys as well as the borrowers and you know how much capacity do you have to do these sort of leasehold loan when you're doing the ground lease. Thanks.

偉大的。然後我要快速跟進的是土地租賃和租賃貸款價值之間的差異。請您向我們介紹一下這樣做對你們以及借款人有哪些好處，您知道在進行土地租賃時，您有多少能力進行此類租賃貸款。謝謝。

Hey Ron, thanks for the question. Yeah, so as we've selectively used leasehold loans in the past. We have relatively little dollars outstanding right now, but we think it can be a useful tool in the markets are volatile, and when we see an opportunity where certainty can win deals, it's certainly a narrow in our quiver.

嘿，羅恩，謝謝你的提問。是的，正如我們過去有選擇地使用租賃貸款一樣。我們目前未償還的美元相對較少，但我們認為它可以成為市場動盪時的有用工具，當我們看到確定性可以贏得交易的機會時，它肯定是我們手中的一把利器。

So we think it's a way to, kick start some transactions that you're either sitting on the sidelines because they just can't line everything up. Oh, that's a great place for us to step in, we're going to keep it to a small percentage of the balance sheet, obviously, but, we think it's a tool that our customers definitely benefit from knowing they've got a deal locked down as opposed to having to watch the market every day.

因此，我們認為這是一種啟動一些交易的方法，因為他們無法將所有事情安排好，所以你只能袖手旁觀。哦，這對我們來說是一個很好的介入點，顯然，我們會將其保持在資產負債表的一小部分，但是，我們認為這是一個工具，我們的客戶肯定會從中受益，因為他們知道他們已經鎖定了一筆交易，而不必每天關注市場。

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

凱特琳·伯羅斯，高盛。

Hi there, maybe just a quick follow-up on the first part of Ron's question on the LOI deals. It sounds like some of those may have already closed, so I was wondering if you could quantify that and then give us an idea for expected timing and to the extent that you don't want to comment on these exact deals, I guess could you give some color around by the time a property generally enters the LOI stage how long it could take to actually close.

大家好，我想快速跟進一下 Ron 關於 LOI 交易問題的第一部分。聽起來其中一些可能已經關閉，所以我想知道您是否可以量化這一點，然後給我們一個預期時間的想法，並且如果您不想對這些確切的交易發表評論，我想您能否給出一些細節，當一處房產通常進入 LOI 階段時，實際關閉需要多長時間。

Sure, I'll take the last first. Time frame ranges on a construction deal versus a recap deal, construction deals just take more time to put things together. And then, on the recap deal, those are largely fairly quick, but you know our pipeline, what we expect is the majority of all these deals will close this year. But because of the timing with the construction versus stabilized deals, it will vary over the time frame of the quarter, but again, we feel, great about what the build-up of the pipeline is.

當然，我先選擇最後一個。建設交易與重述交易的時間範圍不同，建設交易只是需要更多的時間來整合一切。然後，關於重述交易，這些基本上都相當快，但你知道我們的管道，我們預計所有這些交易中的大部分將在今年完成。但由於建設與穩定交易的時間安排，它會在本季度的時間範圍內發生變化，但同樣，我們對管道的建設感到非常高興。

Okay, got it. And sounds like then no comment on what has already been agreed upon or closed.

好的，明白了。聽起來好像對於已經達成一致或已經結束的事情沒有任何評論。

I mean, the earliest deals are starting to close, so, we're hopeful that the momentum continues.

我的意思是，最早的交易已經開始結束，所以，我們希望這種勢頭能夠繼續下去。

Okay, and then just at the end there, you guys mentioned the public versus private market disconnect, so wondering if you could comment on that a little bit more, are you suggesting that you would consider potentially selling a ground lease or more to prove value or something else?

好的，然後就在最後，你們提到了公共市場與私人市場之間的脫節，所以想知道你是否可以對此發表更多評論，你是否建議你會考慮出售土地租賃或更多東西來證明價值或其他什麼？

Sure Caitlin, it's Brett. Yeah, we mentioned on our last earnings call that for our 2025 goals in capital recycling was near the top of the list. We want to make sure that we are standing behind the stock and making sure that we are closing the GAAP, and we certainly believe that we are trading at a discount and when we start thinking about the op opportunity set of what we have within the existing portfolio, whether that means selling assets, finding joint venture partners, etc.

當然可以，凱特琳，我是布雷特。是的，我們在上次收益電話會議上提到，在我們的 2025 年目標中，資本循環利用位居首位。我們希望確保我們支持股票，並確保我們遵守 GAAP，我們當然相信我們以折扣價交易，當我們開始考慮現有投資組合中的營運機會時，無論這是否意味著出售資產、尋找合資夥伴等。

We're underway in processes to figure out how to create the best execution, so that we can continue to deploy capital as well as, stand behind the stock, and we'll continue to update the market accordingly as those processes unfold.

我們正在進行研究如何創造最佳執行，以便我們能夠繼續部署資本並支援股票，並且隨著這些過程的展開，我們將繼續相應地更新市場。

Haendel St. Juste, Mizuho.

亨德爾聖朱斯特，瑞穗。

Hi, there. I wanted to confirm whether everything in the LOI was -- in the non-binding LOIs were related to multi-family or affordable housing.

你好呀。我想確認意向書中的所有內容——非約束性意向書中的內容是否與多戶住宅或經濟適用住房有關。

Yeah, as I mentioned, the majority of it is in multi-family, and it's a good mix of market rate, construction, market rate, recap as well as affordable, and we do have a hotel transaction as well. So the majority is still multi-family.

是的，正如我所提到的，其中大部分是多戶型住宅，並且是市場價格、建築價格、市場價格、回顧價格以及可負擔價格的良好組合，而且我們也有酒店交易。因此，大多數仍是多戶型住宅。

Got it. And as you evaluate your current capital stack, what is the appetite to potentially source maybe another joint venture with a large institutional, partner, maybe that would help with the capital deployment.

知道了。當您評估目前的資本結構時，您是否有興趣與大型機構合作夥伴建立另一家合資企業，這也許有助於資本配置。

Yeah, I think, as I said in my opening remarks, the goal here is to scale and, right now the scarcity of deals makes it, more likely we're going to try to keep stuff for ourselves, but certainly as deal flow ramps up and if our cost of capital isn't where we'd like it to be, that's an alternative we always consider as potentially one we can use. As Brett said, we have a couple of processes underway just to think about other sources of capital that could be more accretive to the company, but nothing to report right now.

是的，我認為，正如我在開場白中所說的那樣，這裡的目標是擴大規模，而且目前交易的稀缺性使得我們更有可能嘗試為自己保留一些東西，但隨著交易流的增加，如果我們的資本成本沒有達到我們希望的水平，那麼我們始終認為這是一種潛在的可用替代方案。正如布雷特所說，我們正在進行一些流程，只是為了考慮可以為公司帶來更多增值的其他資本來源，但目前還沒有什麼可報告的。

And just one more here and maybe it's a bit more on big picture in nature, but like I understand the volatility with interest rates and in the past and on the volatility with tariffs and the trade war, this has really impacted the acquisition that said and the capital deployment opportunity. I think.

這裡再說一點，也許本質上更多的是關於全局，但據我了解，利率波動以及過去的關稅波動和貿易戰確實影響了收購和資本配置機會。我認為。

I think it's fair to say that the volatility will persist here for a little bit. So I guess what are some of the deals you're looking to structure and how are those maybe different than maybe what we're approaching in the past?

我認為可以公平地說，這種波動性還會持續一段時間。那我想問一下，您希望建立哪些交易？這些交易與我們過去所採取的交易有何不同？

This is Tim again, I would say that, there has been some volatility, of course. I think the range of the volatility has tightened. If you look back, over the last 24 months with the high we pay attention a lot to the 30 year treasury, the highs and the lows from 6 to 24 months back, now 6 months back only, that's allowed sponsors to start to have a clear view of what their long-term capital costs are.

這又是提姆，我想說，當然，也存在一些波動。我認為波動範圍已經收窄。如果你回顧一下，在過去 24 個月的高點，我們非常關注 30 年期國債，6 到 24 個月前的峰值和低谷，現在只有 6 個月前的高峰和低谷，這讓發起人開始清楚地了解他們的長期資本成本。

So I think that's why you're also seeing the pipeline build up your sponsors are now able to make decisions on transactions. Sure, the latest noise is tariffs, which does impact transactions, we use the construction, for an example, so deals that started to pencil, some of those probably had to go pencils down, but look at in the high quality markets with good growth and lower supply than others, which there's good examples of around the country. Even with tariffs, those transactions can start to occur, which you're seeing come through our pipeline.

所以我認為這就是為什麼你也看到管道的建立，你的贊助商現在能夠對交易做出決定。當然，最新的噪音是關稅，這確實會影響交易，我們以建築為例，所以開始進行的交易，其中一些可能不得不減少，但看看那些增長良好、供應量低於其他市場的高品質市場，全國各地都有很好的例子。即使有關稅，這些交易仍可以開始發生，正如您所看到的，它們透過我們的管道進行。

Yeah, one thing we've seen that I think is a little bit new is customers actually asking to lock rate early and or have some sort of floor and cap and not just have a floating spread all the way up till they close. So that that's been one response we've seen from customers that they're looking for certainty, they need to put the stacks together, and at least with our piece, we can give them a little bit more certainty that has been helpful.

是的，我們發現一個我認為比較新穎的現象，那就是客戶實際上要求提前鎖定利率，或者設定某種下限和上限，而不是一直保持浮動利差直到收盤。這是我們收到的客戶回饋之一，他們尋求確定性，他們需要把所有東西放在一起，至少透過我們的產品，我們可以給他們多一點確定性，這是很有幫助的。

Mitch Germain, Citizens Capital Markets.

米奇‧傑曼 (Mitch Germain)，公民資本市場。

Thank you. I wanted to circle back about some of the discussion around the joint venture partners, and obviously, you can lock in some new capital for deals, but I think when Brett had suggested joint ventures as a way to unlock value of the portfolio, I'm assuming you would be contributing assets to existing properties to a venture. Is that the way to think about creating some price discovery around the portfolio itself?

謝謝。我想回顧一下有關合資夥伴的一些討論，顯然，你可以為交易鎖定一些新資本，但我認為，當布雷特建議合資企業作為釋放投資組合價值的一種方式時，我假設你會將現有資產投入到合資企業中。這是圍繞投資組合本身創造價格發現的思考方式嗎？

Yeah, exactly. I think from our perspective both from a, where do ground leases trade, right? They come, they come for sale very and often, right? It's really episodic and what we're going out and doing is creating them. So having a scarce product and one that is very low beta, especially in a choppier market, should be an attractive proposition for folks.

是的，確實如此。我認為從我們的角度來看，土地租賃在哪裡進行交易，對嗎？他們來，他們常來銷售，對嗎？這確實是連續劇，而我們要做的就是創作它們。因此，擁有一種稀缺產品和一種貝塔值非常低的產品，尤其是在波動較大的市場中，對人們來說應該是一個有吸引力的提議。

To Jay and Tim's point, we certainly want to scale and grow. But in thinking about activity moving forward throughout the course of the year in terms of our own capital structure and what we can do to continue to tighten costs, looking for the right partners, whether that be direct sales or JVs are on the table.

正如傑伊和蒂姆所說，我們當然希望擴大規模並發展壯大。但是，從我們自己的資本結構的角度考慮全年的活動進展，以及我們可以採取哪些措施來繼續縮緊成本，尋找合適的合作夥伴，無論是直接銷售還是合資企業。

In terms of go forward capital, if you remember, we still have our joint venture with our sovereign wealth partner, so we have capital tools or other tools in the tool kit here to ensure that if the cost of capital for us is not where we'd like it to be, that we can participate at the right levels, but we certainly want to be doing as many deals as we can in this rate environment.

就未來資本而言，如果您還記得的話，我們仍然與主權財富合作夥伴有合資企業，因此我們在工具包中擁有資本工具或其他工具，以確保如果我們的資本成本沒有達到我們希望的水平，我們可以在適當的水平參與，但我們當然希望在這種利率環境下盡可能多地進行交易。

But we certainly have to look at our cost of capital as well. So it's a little bit of a moving target quarter to quarter, but we feel really good about our liquidity as well as I mentioned in my remarks, the hedges that we currently have in place that are well in the money.

但我們當然也必須考慮我們的資本成本。因此，這是一個季度一個季度的移動目標，但我們對我們的流動性感到非常滿意，正如我在發言中提到的那樣，我們目前實施的對沖措施非常有利。

Got you. It's been a while since I think you guys a couple quarters ago cleaned up your Carets, or at least the, original tranche that you sold. Has there been any consideration to use that instrument as a price discovery tool as well, or given the decline in the unrealized appreciation pool, is that kind of off the table right now?

明白了。我認為你們幾個季度前清理 Carets，或者至少是你們出售的原始部分已經有一段時間了。是否也考慮過將該工具用作價格發現工具，或者考慮到未實現升值池的下降，現在是否不可能再使用這種工具了？

I wouldn't say it's off the table, but it's a much better story when that UCA number is growing quickly, and I think you see as the pipeline starts to come through, I think we can be, just a better story for investors. We still have, a lot of thoughts about how to use that to create capital, but I think giving ourselves, the time through the end of the year to really pick a spot when the story is strongest is probably the wisest thing to do.

我不會說這是不可能的，但當 UCA 數量快速增長時，這將是一個更好的故事，而且我認為隨著管道開始通暢，我認為我們可以為投資者帶來更好的故事。我們仍然有很多關於如何利用它來創造資本的想法，但我認為給自己一些時間，在年底之前真正選擇一個故事最強大的時刻，可能是最明智的做法。

Harsh Halani, Green Street

哈什·哈拉尼，綠街

It sounds like a couple deals might have closed post quarter end. Could you give us some color on whether these or the split in the closed deals between the four under LOI with a leasehold loan versus the seven without a leasehold loan. I'm trying to understand the certainty that comes with that leasehold loan makes it easier to close versus maybe just account lease.

聽起來有幾筆交易可能在季度末後完成。您能否向我們詳細介紹這些情況，或者說，在 LOI 下，有租賃貸款的四家公司與沒有租賃貸款的七家公司之間已完成交易的分配情況。我試圖理解租賃貸款所帶來的確定性，這使得它比僅僅是帳戶租賃更容易結清。

Sure, yeah, as you see, 4 of the 11 have the leasehold loans, so a minority of those transactions. Obviously when we have the loan as well as the groundings, there's more certainty because we're more, control of the capital stack, so those deals do have a higher level of certainty.

當然，是的，如你所見，11 家公司中有 4 家擁有租賃貸款，因此這些交易只佔少數。顯然，當我們擁有貸款和基礎時，就會有更多的確定性，因為我們對資本堆疊的控制力更強，所以這些交易確實具有更高的確定性。

However, our experience on LOIs is the vast majority of these will close. It's just timing to get those done, whether it be. The capital of the LPGP or the leasehold lender taking time, so we do feel comfortable with the certainty of this pipeline closing over the year. But as we said, the leasehold loans do provide a little bit more certainty than the other transactions.

然而，根據我們在意向書方面的經驗，絕大多數此類協議都會終止。不管怎樣，現在只是完成這些任務的時機而已。LPGP 或租賃貸款人的資本需要時間，因此我們對這條管道在一年內關閉的確定性感到放心。但正如我們所說，租賃貸款確實比其他交易提供了更多的確定性。

As you know when we prop a ground lease, that customer still has to go out and get typically a leasehold loan and their LP capital lined up, and all three kind of move around. You've got multiple parties at the table. Wherever we see a chance to narrow that window, is an opportunity to think through with the customer what's the best way to move forward. So again, selectively using it, but it is a tool that gives them the ability to move forward, that's a good tool to have.

如您所知，當我們支持土地租賃時，客戶仍然必須出去並獲得租賃貸款和他們的 LP 資本，並且所有這三者都會轉移。桌上有多個參與者。無論何時，只要我們看到縮小這個窗口的機會，我們就有機會與客戶一起思考前進的最佳方式。所以，再次強調，選擇性地使用它，但它是一種讓他們有能力前進的工具，這是一個很好的工具。

And then maybe taking a step back on the pipeline, right? What's under LOI over $250 million on ground leases, it's already more than what originations were in 2024. So is this -- are you maybe -- two part question. The first is how has the pipeline evolved maybe after all the volatility in?

然後也許在管道上退後一步，對嗎？意向書項下的土地租賃金額超過 2.5 億美元，這已經超過了 2024 年的土地租賃金額。那麼，這是——也許是——由兩部分組成的問題。首先，在經歷了所有這些波動之後，管道可能會如何發展？

And then, given what you're seeing on the ground today, do you think this is sort of a sign of a recovery in the ground lease market, or do you feel like you need more time to be confident in that?

然後，根據您今天看到的情況，您是否認為這是土地租賃市場復甦的跡象，或者您是否覺得需要更多時間才能對此有信心？

Yeah, as I mentioned, prior the volatility rates is less so than it was over the previous couple of years, which has again helped people make decisions longer term, whether that be mostly on the construction and acquisition side, obviously what the decisions are and recaps as well.

是的，正如我所提到的，之前的波動率比前幾年要低，這再次幫助人們做出長期決策，無論主要是在建設和收購方面，顯然還有決策和回顧。

And yes, as you mentioned, our pipeline now the total on the ground leases is more than we originated last year and that, the certainty becoming a little bit more clear. Obviously, there's still some volatility out there, but it is a good sign that things have reached a point where sponsors can make these decisions and therefore our pipeline and transaction flow will increase.

是的，正如您所說，我們現在的地面租賃總額比去年多，而且確定性變得更加清晰。顯然，仍然存在一些波動，但這是一個好兆頭，表明事情已經到了贊助商可以做出這些決定的地步，因此我們的管道和交易流量將會增加。

[Stephen Kim, Truist].

[Stephen Kim，Truist]。

Thank you. Good morning. Just going back to the topic of potential new JV partners, I know the current one is more geared for larger scale deals. Just what is the level of interest you're seeing for potential new partners and would this be more for new deals going forward or past deals?

謝謝。早安.回到潛在的新合資夥伴的話題，我知道目前的合資夥伴更適合更大規模的交易。您對潛在新合作夥伴的興趣程度如何？這更多的是針對未來的新交易還是過去的交易？

Yeah, as Brett said, the process on the trying to use the existing portfolio is one we've been thinking about. I think on the new transactions, if it's of scale and size, certainly our existing partner is our go to.

是的，正如布雷特所說，我們一直在考慮嘗試使用現有投資組合的過程。我認為，對於新的交易，如果規模和規模合適，我們肯定會選擇我們現有的合作夥伴。

And we have shown them some very large transactions to really see where their return parameters are these days. I will say, it's hard to talk to people when they can deploy billions of dollars into data centers and other areas about our very safe, very long term, very attractive returns, but -- and obviously lower nominal return levels. So we're saving our firepower with them for the largest deals.

我們向他們展示了一些非常大的交易，以真正了解他們目前的回報參數。我想說的是，當人們能夠將數十億美元投入資料中心和其他領域時，我們很難與他們談論非常安全、非常長期、非常有吸引力的回報，但名義回報水平顯然較低。因此，我們正在保存實力，以備最大的交易。

That seems to be where they want to engage so that right now that's our focus with them, but Brett's, working on the other half of the equation, which is can we use our existing portfolio to create other partnerships that might be advantageous to us?

這似乎是他們想要參與的領域，所以現在這是我們與他們合作的重點，但布雷特正在研究等式的另一半，即我們能否利用現有的投資組合來創建可能對我們有利的其他合作夥伴關係？

And are there any type of restrictions on because if you did sell some assets your car size would decrease or do you have any kind of restrictions that would prohibit you from selling down assets?

是否有任何類型的限制，因為如果您確實出售一些資產，您的汽車尺寸就會減小，或者是否有任何類型的限制禁止您出售資產？

No, there's no restrictions, I think again when think about a structure of a venture, we want to be thoughtful as well as any prospective partner in terms of desires and needs from both sides. So for us, we certainly believe that these assets are quite valuable, both the contractual compounding cash flow streams, but the inflation strips that we have in each of these, as well as to your point, the UCA, the value that sits above our ground lease.

不，沒有限制，我再次思考，當考慮一個企業的結構時，我們希望像任何潛在的合作夥伴一樣，在雙方的願望和需求方面考慮周到。因此，對我們來說，我們當然相信這些資產非常有價值，包括合約複合現金流，以及我們在這些資產中所擁有的通貨膨脹條，以及您所說 UCA，高於我們土地租賃的價值。

So we want to be thoughtful about the opportunities set there both in what the give and take is near term as well as what the ending outcomes could be longer term and there, there's always trade-offs and we want to make sure that we're creating value for our stakeholders that can come in different forms and as I mentioned, those thought processes as well as endeavors are along the way right now and we'll update the market as we have more detail.

因此，我們要認真考慮其中蘊含的機遇，包括短期的付出和收穫，以及長期的最終結果，而且總是有取捨的，我們要確保以不同的形式為利益相關者創造價值，正如我所提到的，這些思考過程和努力目前正在進行中，我們將在獲得更多細節後向市場更新。

Rich Anderson, Wedbush Securities.

里奇·安德森（Rich Anderson），韋德布希證券公司。

So dovetailing off of a previous observation or question, the [273] and an LOI is, to me it's a good number, and we talked about how that compares with that versus last year. I'm wondering why you're not sounding more sort of optimistic about, the progression of 2025 in light of the fact that, that's not certainty of closed, but, good chance of a lot of that will close. Why not a little bit more effervescence in your tone, given that pace that we're seeing, right here and right now.

因此，根據先前的觀察或問題，[273] 和 LOI 對我來說是一個不錯的數字，我們討論了與去年相比的情況。我想知道為什麼您對 2025 年的進展不太樂觀，因為雖然不能確定會關閉，但很有可能很多事情都會關閉。鑑於我們現在所看到的這種節奏，為什麼不讓你的語調更活躍一些呢？

Yeah, I, well, I apologize. We are excited about the pipeline, it's been, a great, beginning of the year here in Q2, so I guess I need to just, change my tone of the answer, but no, look, the [273] is a great number. The diversity of the, I mentioned, I guess I should sound a little more excited about the diversity of the sponsorship and. Location, the asset classes. So I guess, I just need to add a little more emphasis on the end of my senses.

是的，我，嗯，我很抱歉。我們對這條管道感到非常興奮，今年第二季的開局非常好，所以我想我需要改變一下回答的語氣，但是不，你看，[273] 是一個很棒的數字。我提到了多樣性，我想我應該對贊助的多樣性感到更興奮一些。位置、資產類別。所以我想，我只需要稍微強調一下我的感官的終結。

I think what you're hearing is you know these guys are these guys are in the trenches every day and we've been left at the altar a couple times on deals we thought were right at the finish line, and that sort of breaks your heart for a little bit and you got to get back on the horse and go out there again and do it, but we're pleased that the persistence is starting to pay off, but. And this is not a great market in terms of customers having clarity. We're seeing that across the board.

我想你聽到的是，你知道這些人每天都在戰鬥，我們有幾次在以為已經到達終點的交易上被拋棄，這有點讓人心碎，你必須重新騎上馬，再次出去做這件事，但我們很高興，堅持開始得到回報，但是。從客戶的清晰度來看，這不是一個很好的市場。我們全面看到了這一點。

You've seen what's happened in CMBS spreads blow out, then they come back in, then they blow out again. So everybody's trying to grapple with the variables and figure out what should I do and when should I do it, and you know that's a harder market for our guys to really get people to sign on the dotted line, close their deals, and again, we're only one part of their capital stack.

你已經看到了商業抵押貸款擔保證券利差爆發的情況，然後它們又回升，然後再次爆發。因此，每個人都在努力應對各種變量，弄清楚我應該做什麼以及何時做，而且您知道，對於我們的人來說，這是一個更難的市場，要讓人們真正簽署虛線，完成交易，而且，我們只是他們資本堆疊的一部分。

So I think you're hearing just a little bit of the frustration that our customers want to do business with us. We want to do business with them, but unless we can control the entire stack, which we sometimes can but rarely can, it's really hard to get deals done in a market where things change overnight.

所以我認為你聽到了我們的客戶想要與我們做生意時的一點挫折感。我們想與他們做生意，但除非我們能夠控制整個堆疊（有時我們可以但很少能做到），否則在一夜之間發生變化的市場中很難達成交易。

So hopefully, we're moving into a more stable period where, it's just our solution versus other solutions, which is a place we like to compete. What we can't compete with is external factors and geopolitical and political factors that move around so much that, freezes the market and we're still not seeing. New acquisition activity pick up to the pace we would hope. You're seeing refi start to, kick in, even some new development, but I don't think we're anywhere near, sort of a stabilized market.

因此，希望我們能夠進入一個更穩定的時期，在這個時期，我們只是在與其他解決方案競爭，這是我們喜歡競爭的領域。我們無法與外部因素以及地緣政治和政治因素競爭，這些因素變化太大，凍結了市場，我們仍然看不到。新的收購活動將按照我們所希望的步伐加快。你會看到再融資開始發揮作用，甚至出現了一些新的發展，但我認為我們還遠遠沒有達到某種穩定的市場。

Yeah, and I can appreciate the heartbreaking component to the behind the scenes. But, Jay, maybe you can comment, when you guys were doing deals in the billions per year, what was the negotiating sort of difference then, like in terms of binding versus non-binding LOIs? I mean, how has the market shifted in favor of potential customers today versus when you were kind of a little bit more in the driver's seat to get deals done?

是的，我能體會到幕後令人心碎的部分。但是，傑伊，也許你可以評論一下，當你們每年做數十億美元的交易時，談判方面有什麼區別，例如在具有約束力的意向書和非約束力的意向書方面？我的意思是，與以前你更能掌控交易的局面相比，如今的市場是如何轉向對潛在客戶有利的？

Yeah, I'll let Tim answer because he's on the ground every day, but here's my 30,000 ft view is when customers think the Fed's about to raise rates, they want to lock in long-term capital, and when markets think that the Fed's going to lower rates, they're more hesitant to lock in long-term capital. So we're going to develop, a rhythm with our customers to help them, navigate these kind of markets.

是的，我會讓蒂姆來回答，因為他每天都在實地，但我從 30,000 英尺的高度來看，當客戶認為聯準會即將升息時，他們希望鎖定長期資本，而當市場認為聯準會將降低利率時，他們更不願意鎖定長期資本。因此，我們將與客戶一起制定節奏，幫助他們駕馭這類市場。

A lot of it is just how and when do they want to lock in what we think is a very beneficial long-term capital source. And when we were doing billions, it was a sort of double barreled. It was a better solution and they were worried the world was going to get much worse.

其中很大一部分只是他們想如何以及何時鎖定我們認為非常有利的長期資本來源。當我們的獲利達到數十億美元時，這就像是雙管齊下。這是一個更好的解決方案，他們擔心世界會變得更糟。

And so I think stability helps us across the board and I don't know what the Fed's going to do today, but the presumption is tariffs are going to have an impact and customers are starting to go, hey, maybe I should just lock in right now.

因此，我認為穩定對我們全面有益，我不知道聯準會今天會做什麼，但推測關稅將產生影響，客戶開始說，嘿，也許我現在就應該鎖定。

So I think there's a lot of variables outside our control, but our goal is just to line up against their alternatives and say ours is better. You should really consider it, and the more shots we get at that conversation, the better we're going to do.

所以我認為有很多變數是我們無法控制的，但我們的目標只是與他們的替代方案保持一致並說我們的方案更好。你真的應該考慮一下，我們在談話中得到的回饋越多，我們做得就越好。

So I would just say that look, I think that the consistency of our capital is also ringing true to the clients, right? Every time they've called us over the past eight years, we've been in a similar position in terms of what spread we are to the cost of the of the indexes. So that certainty has helped a lot as you can see with the repeat sponsors and even now with the growing list of new sponsors as well, so I think that's an important add on.

所以我只想說，我認為我們資本的一致性對客戶來說也是真實的，對嗎？過去八年裡，每次他們打電話給我們時，我們的情況都大致相同，也就是我們與指數成本之間的價差。所以，正如您所看到的，這種確定性對重複贊助商有很大幫助，甚至現在新贊助商名單也在增加，所以我認為這是一個重要的補充。

Okay, great. And last for me to Brett. What's the conversation like, with S&P in terms of potentially getting them over the hump, with the other two? I'm just curious if that's something that's on the radar screen. I'm sure it is, at some point down the road. Thanks.

好的，太好了。最後我要向布雷特說一聲。您與標準普爾以及另外兩家銀行的對話如何，能否幫助他們渡過難關？我只是好奇這是否是雷達螢幕上顯示的東西。我確信在未來的某個時刻它會實現。謝謝。

Yeah, Rich, I certainly think that, the momentum we had over the last 12 to 18 months with the other agencies has helped people realize that, this is a solid single A company. I think S&P, as the engagement with them came further along.

是的，Rich，我確實認為，過去 12 到 18 個月我們與其他機構合作的勢頭已經幫助人們意識到，這是一家實力雄厚的單一 A 公司。我認為標準普爾與他們的合作已經進一步深入。

We got the rating public late last year, so, we're in that positive outlook review period. We have an annual review coming up. But over the course of 2025, we're going to continue to have dialogue with them. Typically these processes take 18 to 24 months, some a little less, some a little longer. But for us, we keep, foot to the pedal on. This is a very safe asset class, we're capitalizing in a very prudent way.

我們在去年年底獲得了公開評級，因此，我們正處於積極的前景審查期。我們即將進行年度審查。但在 2025 年期間，我們將繼續與他們進行對話。這些過程通常需要 18 到 24 個月，有些過程較短，有些過程較長。但對我們來說，我們會繼續踩著油門。這是一種非常安全的資產類別，我們正在以非常謹慎的方式利用它。

And if we continue to find ways to deploy and originate for new deals as well as make the spreads and margins that we desire, and that's through thoughtful rate moves and hedging as well, that's steady as she goes. So we're having dialogue with them and our hope is to get that third single act.

如果我們繼續尋找方法來部署和發起新的交易，並獲得我們想要的利差和利潤，而這也是透過深思熟慮的利率變動和對沖來實現的，那麼這將是穩定的。因此，我們正在與他們進行對話，我們希望獲得第三個單獨表演。

Thank you. Mr. Hoffmann, we currently have no further questions.

謝謝。霍夫曼先生，我們目前沒有其他問題。

Thank you. If you do have additional questions, please feel free to contact me directly. Operator, would you please give the conference call replay instructions once again?

謝謝。如果您還有其他問題，請隨時直接與我聯繫。接線員，請您再說一次電話會議重播的指示好嗎？

Yes, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, the dial in for the replay is (877) 481-4010 with the confirmation code of 52368. This concludes today's call. You may disconnect at this time, and we thank you for your participation.

是的，先生。女士們、先生們，重播請撥電話 (877) 481-4010，確認碼為 52368。今天的電話會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開連接，我們感謝您的參與。