Safehold Inc (SAFE) 2024 Q4 法說會逐字稿

Good morning and welcome to Safehold's fourth-quarter and fiscal year 2024 earnings conference call. (Operator Instructions)

早上好，歡迎參加 Safehold 2024 財年第四季和財年財報電話會議。（操作員指令）

As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. At this time, for opening remarks and introductions I would like to turn the conference over to Pierce Hoffman, Senior Vice President of Capital Markets and Investor Relations. Please go ahead, sir.

提醒一下，今天的會議正在錄音。現在，我想將會議的開幕詞和介紹交給資本市場和投資者關係高級副總裁皮爾斯霍夫曼。先生，請繼續。

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for Safehold's earnings call. On the call, we have Jay Sugarman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer; Brett Asnas, Chief Financial Officer; and Tim Doherty, Chief Investment Officer.

大家早安。感謝您今天參加 Safehold 的收益電話會議。參加電話會議的有董事長兼執行長傑伊‧舒格曼 (Jay Sugarman)；布雷特‧阿斯納斯 (Brett Asnas)，財務長；以及首席投資長 Tim Doherty（Tim Doherty）。

This morning, we plan to walk through a presentation that details our fourth quarter and fiscal year 2024 results. The presentation can be found on our website at safeholdinc.com by clicking on the investors link. There will be a replay of this conference call beginning at 2:00 PM Eastern Time today. The dial in for the replay is 8774814010 with a confirmation code of 51963.

今天上午，我們計劃進行一次演示，詳細介紹我們第四季度和 2024 財年的業績。點擊投資者連結即可在我們的網站 safeholdinc.com 上找到該簡報。本次電話會議將於今天東部時間下午 2:00 開始重播。重播的撥入號碼為 8774814010，確認碼為 51963。

In order to accommodate all those who want to ask questions, we ask that participants limit themselves to two questions during Q&A. If you'd like to ask additional questions, you may re-enter the queue. Before I turn the call over to Jay, I'd like to remind everyone that statements in this earnings call which are not historical facts may be forward-looking.

為了滿足所有想要提問的人的需求，我們要求參與者在問答期間將問題限制在兩個以內。如果您想詢問其他問題，您可以重新進入佇列。在我將電話轉給傑伊之前，我想提醒大家，這次收益電話會議中非歷史事實的陳述可能是前瞻性的。

Our actual results may differ materially from these forward-looking statements and the risk factors that could cause these differences are detailed in our SEC reports. Safehold disclaims any intent or obligation to update these forward-looking statements except as expressly required by law.

我們的實際結果可能與這些前瞻性陳述有重大差異，可能導致這些差異的風險因素在我們的 SEC 報告中詳細說明。除非法律明確要求，Safehold 不承擔更新這些前瞻性聲明的任何意圖或義務。

Now with that, I'd like to turn it over to Chairman and CEO, Jay Sugarman. Jay?

現在，我想將發言權交給董事長兼執行長傑伊舒格曼 (Jay Sugarman)。傑伊？

Thanks Pierce and good morning to everyone joining us today. The fourth quarter was in many ways, a continuation of themes we have seen over the past 12 months. The prospect of lower rates early in the quarter helping to activate business and higher rates as the quarter went on reversing the equation. A relatively sharp increase in rates, ended up posing headwinds for customers upended many deals and put upward pressure on discount rates and cap rates used for valuing our existing portfolio.

感謝皮爾斯，並向今天參加我們的各位朋友問好。從許多方面來看，第四季延續了過去 12 個月所見的主題。本季初降低利率的前景有助於激活業務，而隨著本季的推進，利率上升將扭轉這一局面。利率相對大幅上漲最終給客戶帶來了阻力，顛覆了許多交易，並對用於評估我們現有投資組合的折現率和資本化率造成了上行壓力。

While we can't control interest rates, we still believe that there are reasons to expect rates will come down over time, and that the current headwinds we're facing will become strong tailwinds with more deals, higher values for our cash flows and higher estimates of UCA.

雖然我們無法控制利率，但我們仍然相信，有理由預期利率會隨著時間的推移而下降，而且隨著交易的增多、現金流價值的提高和 UCA 估值的提高，我們當前面臨的阻力將成為強勁的順風。

In the meantime, we'll work to counteract the impact of higher rates with two specific initiatives in 2025 to demonstrate value in the portfolio and build on the successes of 2024.

同時，我們將努力在 2025 年採取兩項具體措施來抵銷利率上升的影響，以體現投資組合的價值，並在 2024 年的成功基礎上再接再厲。

The first initiative is continuing our momentum and penetration in the multifamily market, particularly the affordable sector. We like this market for its stable cash flows, high occupancy rates, compelling supply demand dynamics and the clear societal benefits that our ground lease provides. In 2025 we plan to double down on our efforts with the goal of doubling last year's affordable volume and expanding to at least two new states Deal sizes are still on the smaller side, so expanding our footprint and customer relationships will be important to increasing volume.

第一項舉措是繼續保持我們在多戶型住宅市場，特別是經濟適用房領域的發展動能和滲透力。我們喜歡這個市場，因為它有穩定的現金流、高入住率、引人注目的供需動態以及我們的土地租賃提供的明顯的社會效益。2025 年，我們計劃加倍努力，目標是將去年的可負擔交易量翻一番，並擴展到至少兩個新的州。

Second, we'll look to take advantage of what we view as significant undervaluation of our shares. To this end, our Board has approved a new share buyback authorization up to $50 million. Any repurchases will be subject to market conditions and other factors that we deem appropriate, and our goal for this program is to be leveraged neutral. We'll be looking for opportunities to recycle capital from the existing portfolio through asset sales or JVs are advantageous.

其次，我們將盡力利用我們認為的股票嚴重低估的機會。為此，我們的董事會批准了高達 5,000 萬美元的新股票回購授權。任何回購都將取決於市場條件和我們認為適當的其他因素，我們對該計劃的目標是實現槓桿中性。我們將尋找機會透過資產出售或合資的方式從現有投資組合中回收資本。

We'll also focus on bridging the gap with [period], as we believe it is a significant source of long term value for shareholders not currently recognized in the share price. As part of those efforts, our goal is to have care become more accessible to third party investors. In sum, 2025 will be about building on areas of progress from 2024 and continuing to look for ways to highlight the significant value of the portfolio and platform.

我們也將致力於縮小與[期間]的差距，因為我們相信這是股東長期價值的重要來源，而這一價值目前尚未在股價中得到體現。作為這些努力的一部分，我們的目標是讓第三方投資者更容易獲得醫療服務。總之，2025 年將在 2024 年取得進展的基礎上繼續尋找方法來凸顯投資組合和平台的重要價值。

All right, let me turn it over to Brett to review the quarter and the full year in more detail. Brett?

好的，讓我將麥克風交給布雷特，讓他更詳細地回顧本季和全年的情況。布雷特？

Thank you, Jay and good morning, everyone. Let's begin on slide two.

謝謝傑伊，大家早安。讓我們從第二張投影片開始。

2024 was an important set up year for the business. While persistent rate volatility negatively impacted originations in our share price, we took significant steps forward building a more sustainable pipeline and balance sheet that has us well positioned for 2025 and beyond.

2024年是公司重要的成立年。雖然持續的利率波動對我們股價的起源產生了負面影響，但我們在建立更永續的通路和資產負債表方面邁出了重要一步，為我們在 2025 年及以後的發展做好了準備。

Starting with the balance sheet, 2024 was a very strong year for us in the debt capital markets. We increased corporate liquidity through the bank and bond market closing a new five year $2 billion revolver in addition to two 10-year unsecured notes offerings totaling $700 million.

從資產負債表開始，2024 年對我們來說是一個債務資本市場表現非常強勁的一年。我們透過銀行和債券市場增加了企業流動性，除了發行兩筆總額為 7 億美元的 10 年期無擔保票據外，還完成了一筆新的 20 億美元五年期循環信貸。

We lower cost to debt in three ways: First, our bond spreads have tightened as they outperformed investment grade benchmarks compressing by 62.5 basis points from our February bond offering to our November bond offering.

我們透過三種方式降低債務成本：首先，我們的債券利差已經收窄，因為它們跑贏了投資等級基準，從 2 月的債券發行到 11 月的債券發行，利差壓縮了 62.5 個基點。

Second, we recognize $43 million of cash hedge gains and proceeds that reduced the effective yield to maturity on the $700 million of unsecured notes by approximately 65 basis points.

其次，我們確認了 4,300 萬美元的現金對沖收益和收益，這使得 7 億美元無擔保票據的實際到期收益率降低了約 65 個基點。

Third, we put in place a commercial paper program that has been saving approximately 60 basis points versus our revolver.

第三，我們實施了商業票據計劃，與我們的循環信貸相比，該計劃節省了大約 60 個基點。

We continued our ratings momentum in the fourth quarter by having S&P rate Safehold, initiating a BBB+ and positive outlook. We also received an upgrade in December from Fitch, moving from BBB+ to A-. Fitch is now level with Moody's, who rates us at A3. Our credit profile is one of the highest rated in all of real estate and specialty finance and a meaningful competitive advantage for us with our customers.

標準普爾給予 Safehold 評級，啟動 BBB+ 和正面展望，我們在第四季度延續了評級勢頭。12 月份，惠譽也對我們的評級進行了升級，將我們的評級從 BBB+ 升至 A-。惠譽目前與穆迪持平，對我們的評級為 A3。我們的信用狀況在整個房地產和專業金融領域中名列前茅，這對我們與客戶而言具有重大的競爭優勢。

In 2024 new origination activity was $225 million including 10 new ground leases for $193 million and one leasehold loan for $32 million. All 10 new ground leases are in the broader multifamily category including six in the affordable housing space, three student housing, one conventional multifamily asset. These investments are diversified across seven markets and six sponsors with a weighted average GLTV of 34%, rent coverage of 2.8 times and an economic yield of 7.4%.

2024 年新發放活動金額為 2.25 億美元，其中包括 10 份價值 1.93 億美元的新土地租賃和一份價值 3,200 萬美元的租賃貸款。所有 10 個新的土地租賃均屬於更廣泛的多戶住宅類別，其中包括 6 個經濟適用住房空間、3 個學生宿舍和一個傳統的多戶住宅資產。這些投資分散在七個市場和六個贊助商，加權平均 GLTV 為 34%，租金覆蓋率為 2.8 倍，經濟收益率為 7.4%。

Affordable housing has been a bright spot that we expect to be a meaningful component of future growth. We've made strong inroads with top sponsors that understand the value of efficient ground lease capital. They're using our capital solution to deliver more affordable units to municipalities which is a win-win for everyone involved. We will continue to seek out new channels where our product is a clear differentiator for our customers.

經濟適用房一直是我們的亮點，我們預計它將成為未來成長的重要組成部分。我們與了解高效土地租賃資本價值的頂級贊助商取得了長足的進步。他們正在利用我們的資本解決方案向各市政當局提供更多經濟實惠的住房，這對所有參與者來說都是雙贏的。我們將繼續尋找新的管道，讓我們的產品能為客戶帶來明顯的差異化。

At quarter end, the total portfolio was $6.8 billion. UCA was estimated at $9.1 billion, GLTV was 49% and rent coverage was 3.5 times. We ended the quarter with approximately $1.3 billion of liquidity which is further supported by the potential available capacity in our joint venture.

截至季末，總投資組合為 68 億美元。加拿大大學預計為 91 億美元，GLTV 為 49%，租金覆蓋率為 3.5 倍。截至本季末，我們的流動資金約為 13 億美元，這得到了合資企業潛在可用產能的進一步支持。

Slide three provides a snapshot of our portfolio growth. In the fourth quarter, we originated one multi family ground lease for $22 million. We funded a total of $46 million including $5 million of the new Q4 origination at a 7.4% economic yield. $41 million of ground lease fundings on preexisting commitments that have a 6.9% economic yield and $400,000 related to our 53% share of the leasehold loan fund which earned interest at a rate of [SOFR+271].

第三張投影片提供了我們投資組合成長的快照。第四季度，我們簽訂了一份價值 2,200 萬美元的多戶住宅土地租賃協議。我們總共資助了 4,600 萬美元，其中包括第四季新發起的 500 萬美元，經濟收益率為 7.4%。 4,100 萬美元的土地租賃資金用於先前承諾的土地租賃，經濟收益率為 6.9%，40 萬美元與我們 53% 的租賃貸款基金份額有關，利率為[SOFR+271]。

For the full year, we funded a total of $319 million including $148 million of new 2024 originations that have a 7.3% economic yield. $165 million of ground lease fundings on preexisting commitments that have a 6.5% economic yield and $6 million related to our 53% share of the leasehold loan fund which earned interest at a rate of SOFR+579.

我們全年共資助了 3.19 億美元，其中包括 2024 年新發起的 1.48 億美元，經濟殖利率為 7.3%。 1.65 億美元的土地租賃融資用於先前承諾的事項，其經濟收益率為 6.5%，另外 600 萬美元與我們佔租賃貸款基金的 53% 份額有關，該基金的利率為 SOFR+579。

Our ground lease portfolio has 147 assets and has grown 20 times since our IPO. While the estimated unrealized capital appreciation sitting above our ground leases has grown 21 times. We have 85 multifamily ground leases in the portfolio and have increased our exposure from 8% by count at IPO to 58% today.

我們的土地租賃組合擁有 147 項資產，自首次公開募股以來增長了 20 倍。而我們土地租賃的預期未實現資本增值卻增加了 21 倍。我們的投資組合中有 85 個多戶型土地租賃，並且我們的敞口已從 IPO 時的 8% 增加到今天的 58%。

In total, the unrealized capital appreciation portfolio is comprised of approximately 36 million square feet of institutional quality commercial real estate, consisting of approximately 20,000 multifamily units. 12.5 million square feet of office, over 5,000 hotel keys, and 2 million square feet of life science and other property types.

總體而言，未實現資本增值投資組合包括約 3,600 萬平方英尺的機構品質商業房地產，其中包含約 20,000 個多戶住宅單元。 1250 萬平方英尺的辦公室、超過 5,000 間酒店房間以及 200 萬平方英尺的生命科學和其他類型的物業。

Continuing on slide four, let me detail our quarterly and annual earnings results.

繼續第四張投影片，讓我詳細介紹我們的季度和年度收益結果。

For the fourth quarter, GAAP revenue was $91.9 million. Net income was $26.0 million and earnings per share was $0.36. The decline in GAAP earnings year over year was primarily driven by a one-time $15.2 million derivative hedge gain recognized in Q4 2023. Excluding this one-time derivative of hedge gain, Q4 earnings per share increased approximately 1% year over year, driven by a $3.9 million net increase in asset related revenue from investment fundings and rent growth less additional interest expense on funding these ground leases.

第四季度，GAAP 營收為 9,190 萬美元。淨收入為 2,600 萬美元，每股收益為 0.36 美元。 GAAP 收益年減主要是由於 2023 年第四季確認的 1,520 萬美元一次性衍生性商品對沖收益。不包括這筆一次性的對沖收益衍生品，第四季度每股收益同比增長約 1%，這得益於投資融資帶來的資產相關收入淨增加 390 萬美元以及租金增長減去為這些土地租賃提供資金的額外利息支出。

Ooffset by a $1 million increase in our non-cash general provision and a $2.3 million decrease in earnings from equity method investments, primarily due to repayments in the unconsolidated leasehold loan fund. For the full year, GAAP revenue was $365.7 million. Net income was $105.8 million and earnings per share was a $1.48.

抵消了我們的非現金一般準備金增加 100 萬美元和權益法投資收益減少 230 萬美元的影響，這主要是由於非合併租賃貸款基金的償還。全年 GAAP 收入為 3.657 億美元。淨收入為 1.058 億美元，每股收益為 1.48 美元。

The increase in GAAP earnings year over year was primarily driven by the $145.4 million non-cash impairment of goodwill and $22.1 million of merger and Caret related costs taken in 2023. A $13.8 million net increase in asset related revenue less additional interest expense and $5.8 million in G&A savings net of the Star Holdings Management fee, offset by a $6.8 million increase in non-cash general provision, and the aforementioned $15.2 million derivative hedge gain recognized in 2023.

GAAP 收益年增主要得益於 2023 年 1.454 億美元的非現金商譽減損以及 2,210 萬美元的合併和 Caret 相關成本。資產相關收入淨增加額為 1,380 萬美元減去額外利息支出和扣除星空控股管理費後的 G&A 節餘淨額為 580 萬美元，但非現金一般準備金增加額為 680 萬美元，並且前述 2023 年確認的衍生性商品對沖為 1,520 萬美元。

Adjusting for non-recurring and other reconciling items, full year EPS increased approximately 8% year over year from $1.45 to $1.57.

調整非經常性項目和其他調節項目後，全年每股收益年增約 8%，從 1.45 美元增至 1.57 美元。

On slide five, we detail our portfolio deals. For GAAP earnings, the portfolio currently earns a 3.7% cash yield and a 5.3% annualized yield. Annualized yield includes non-cash adjustments within rent depreciation amortization, which is primarily from accounting methodology on IPO assets but excludes all future contractual variable rent, such as fair market value resets, percentage rent or CPI based escalators which are all significant economic drivers.

在第五張投影片中，我們詳細介紹了我們的投資組合交易。就 GAAP 收益而言，該投資組合目前的現金收益率為 3.7%，年化收益率為 5.3%。年化收益率包括租金折舊攤銷中的非現金調整，主要來自IPO資產的會計方法，但不包括所有未來合約可變租金，例如公平市場價值重置、百分比租金或基於CPI的自動調整機制，這些都是重要的經濟驅動因素。

On an economic basis, the portfolio generates a 5.8% economic yield, which is an IRR based calculation that conforms with how we've underwritten these investments. This economic yield has additional upside including periodic CPI lookbacks, which we have in 83% of our ground leases. Using the Federal Reserve's current long term breakeven inflation rate of 2.35%, the 5.8% economic yield increases to a 6.0% inflation adjusted yield.

從經濟角度來看，該投資組合產生了 5.8% 的經濟收益率，這是基於 IRR 的計算，符合我們承保這些投資的方式。這項經濟效益還有額外的上行空間，包括定期的 CPI 回顧，我們的 83% 土地租賃都有這種回顧。使用聯準會目前的長期盈虧平衡通膨率 2.35%，5.8% 的經濟收益率將增加到 6.0% 的通膨調整收益率。

That 6.0% inflation adjusted yield then increases to 7.5%, after layering in an estimate for unrealized capital appreciation using Safehold's 84% ownership interest in Caret at its most recent $2 billion valuation. We believe unrealized capital appreciation in our assets to be a significant source of value for the company that remains largely unrecognized by the market today.

在使用 Safehold 在 Caret 最近的 20 億美元估值下持有的 84% 所有權權益估算未實現資本增值後，經通膨調整後的 6.0% 收益率上升至 7.5%。我們相信，我們資產中未實現的資本增值是公司價值的重要來源，但目前市場在很大程度上仍未意識到這一點。

Turning to slide six, we highlight the diversification of our portfolio by location and underlying property type. Our top 10 markets by gross book value are called out on the right representing approximately 66% of the portfolio. We include key metrics such as rent coverage and GLTV for each of these markets and we have additional detail at the bottom of the page by region and property type.

在第六張投影片中，我們重點介紹了我們投資組合按地點和基礎房地產類型的多樣化。以帳面總價值計算，我們的十大市場列於右側，約佔投資組合的 66%。我們列出了每個市場的租金覆蓋率和 GLTV 等關鍵指標，並在頁面底部按地區和房產類型提供了更多詳細資訊。

Portfolio GLTV, which is based on annual asset appraisals from CBRE increased slightly in the fourth quarter on modest appraisal declines. Rent coverage on the portfolio was unchanged quarter over quarter at 3.5 times. We continue to believe that investing in well located institutional quality ground leases in the top 30 markets that have attractive risk adjusted returns will benefit the company and its stakeholders over long periods of time.

基於世邦魏理仕年度資產評估的投資組合 GLTV 在第四季度因評估溫和下降而略有增加。該投資組合的租金覆蓋率與上一季相比沒有變化，為 3.5 倍。我們始終相信，投資於前 30 個市場中位置優越、具有吸引力的風險調整後回報的機構優質土地租賃，將使公司及其利益相關者長期受益。

Lastly. On slide seven, we provide an overview of our capital structure. At year end, we had approximately $4.6 billion of debt comprised of $2.2 billion of unsecured notes. $1.5 billion of non-recourse secured debt. $689 million drawn on our unsecured revolver and $272 million of our pro-rata share of debt on ground leases which we own in joint ventures.

最後。在第七張投影片中，我們概述了我們的資本結構。截至年底，我們的債務約為 46 億美元，其中包括 22 億美元的無擔保票據。 15 億美元無追索權擔保債務。我們從無擔保循環信貸中提取了 6.89 億美元，並從我們在合資企業中擁有的土地租賃的按比例承擔的債務中提取了 2.72 億美元。

Our weighted average debt maturity is approximately 19.2 years, and we have no corporate maturities due until 2027. At quarter end, we had approximately $1.3 billion of cash and credit facility availability. We are rated A3 Stable Outlook by Moody's. A- stable outlook by Fitch, and BBB+ Positive Outlook by S&P.

我們的加權平均債務期限約為 19.2 年，且我們沒有 2027 年之前到期的公司債務。截至季末，我們擁有約 13 億美元的現金和信貸額度。穆迪將我們的評級定為 A3 穩定展望。惠譽給予其「A-」穩定展望，標準普爾給予其「BBB+」正面展望。

We remain well hedged on our limited floating rate borrowings. Of the $689 million revolver balance outstanding, $500 million is swapped to fix SOFR at 3% through April 2028. We receive swap payments on a current cash basis each month. And for the fourth quarter, that produced cash interest savings of approximately $2.2 million that flowed through the P&L. We also have $250 million of long term treasury locks at a weighted average rate of approximately 4.0%. At current treasury rates, these are in a gain position of approximately $27 million.

我們對有限的浮動利率借款進行了良好的對沖。在 6.89 億美元的未償還循環信貸餘額中，有 5 億美元被互換，以將 SOFR 固定在 3%，直至 2028 年 4 月。我們每月按當前現金基礎收到掉期支付。而在第四季度，這產生了約 220 萬美元的現金利息節省，併計入了損益表。我們還擁有 2.5 億美元的長期國庫鎖定，加權平均利率約為 4.0%。以目前國庫利率計算，這些債券的利潤約為 2,700 萬美元。

These treasury locks are mark to market instruments, currently recognized on the balance sheet but not the P&L. They can be unwound for cash at any point through their designated term and apply to long term debt at which point they would be recognized in our P&L over time. Our hedging strategy has been effective in mitigating a higher rate environment resulting in $43 million in realized cash gains and proceeds, in addition to the unrealized current $27 million mark to market gain. We are levered 1.96 times on a total debt to equity basis which was down slightly from last quarter.

這些資金鎖定是按市價計價的工具，目前在資產負債表上確認，但不在損益表中確認。它們可以在指定期限內的任何時間以現金解除，並適用於長期債務，屆時它們將隨著時間的推移在我們的損益表中得到確認。我們的對沖策略有效地緩解了高利率環境的影響，除了未實現的當前 2,700 萬美元市值收益外，還帶來了 4,300 萬美元的已實現現金收益和收益。我們的總負債與股權比率為 1.96 倍，較上一季略有下降。

The effective interest rate on permanent debt is 4.2% and the portfolio's cash interest rate on permanent debt is 3.8%.

永久債務的實際利率為4.2%，投資組合的永久債務現金利率為3.8%。

So to conclude 2024 was a productive year on many fronts. 2025 has shown we're not yet out of the woods on interest rates, but we've made significant strides setting up the business and balance sheet for the long term. We're reaching new markets and customers that we expect to translate into future growth and activity. And over the course of this year, we'll be working on the initiatives Jay laid out to create shareholder value.

因此，總而言之，2024 年在許多方面都是富有成果的一年。 2025 年表明，我們尚未擺脫利率困境，但我們在建立長期業務和資產負債表方面已取得重大進展。我們正在開拓新的市場、拓展新的客戶，期望這將轉化為未來的成長和活力。今年，我們將致力於實施傑伊提出的創造股東價值的措施。

And with that, let me turn it back to Jay.

現在，讓我把話題轉回傑伊身上。

Thanks Brett. Let's go ahead and open it up for questions.

謝謝布雷特。讓我們繼續回答問題。

Thank you (Operator Instructions)

謝謝（操作員指令）

Ronald Camden, Morgan Stanley.

摩根士丹利的羅納德·卡姆登。

Hey, just a couple of quick ones for me. Just if you could talk a little bit more just about the pipeline. I think you mentioned sort of the focus on the affordable housing product and that was going well, maybe expand on that.

嘿，對我來說只有幾個簡單的問題。如果您可以再多談一點有關管道的事情的話。我覺得您提到了對經濟適用住房產品的關注，而且進展順利，也許可以進一步擴大。

And then just curious if any other verticals are starting to sort of perk up outside of the residential side? Thanks.

我只是好奇，除了住宅領域之外，還有其他垂直產業是否也開始活躍起來？謝謝。

Hey, Ron. It's Tim Doherty. Yeah. So I think as Jay mentioned, we are seeing some good activity on the affordable side we saw in 2024 and in Q4 with the election and some rate volatility, we saw some things get pushed into 2025 but the activity coming into 2025 in the last month and a half here has been quite good. I think you're hearing that across the board in different real estate companies. We're seeing the same.

嘿，羅恩。我是提姆·多爾蒂。是的。因此，我認為正如傑伊所提到的那樣，我們看到 2024 年和第四季度在可負擔方面出現了一些良好的活動，由於選舉和一些利率波動，我們看到一些事情被推遲到 2025 年，但過去一個半月裡，2025 年的活動相當不錯。我想您在不同的房地產公司都聽過這種說法。我們看到的是同樣的情況。

The front of the funnel is quite good. Obviously multifamily is ruling the roost here where capital is flowing very, very well. Spreads are tightened. A lot of interest into that market that were on the sidelines are now back in. Pushing spreads down, gives people more confidence and stability.

漏斗的前部非常好。顯然，多戶型住宅在這裡佔據主導地位，因為資本流動非常順暢。利差收窄。很多之前對該市場不感興趣的人現在又重新燃起興趣。壓低利差可以帶給人們更多信心和穩定性。

So it's not just the affordable side. You're seeing the market rate side and markets that are more supply constrained, use some that aren't everyone always says the (inaudible), but New York City, Boston, some in submarkets in northern and southern California, you're seeing good momentum there on the conventional side and even development and those tight supply constrained markets you're seeing as well. So it's not just the affordable side, the market rate side as well we're seeing good activity.

因此，這不僅僅是價格實惠的方面。您會看到市場利率方面以及供應更為受限的市場，一些並非所有人都總是說（聽不清楚），但紐約市、波士頓以及北加州和南加州的一些子市場，您會看到傳統方面甚至發展方面都呈現良好勢頭，而且您還會看到那些供應緊張的市場。因此，我們不僅在價格承受方面，而且在市場價格方面也看到了良好的活動。

And then on the other asset classes we see -- and look, we have a pretty good portfolio here, we can track actually real time what's happening in these markets, not just from market info, we can see it from actual assets. Office is seeing good, fundamentals in some spots here in New York. You're seeing quite positive leasing activity. Nonexisting lender assisted sales occurring in these core markets, which is great to see. So you're seeing some basis reset happening.

然後，我們看到其他資產類別——看，我們這裡有一個相當不錯的投資組合，我們可以即時追蹤這些市場的情況，不僅僅是從市場資訊中，我們還可以從實際資產中看到。紐約一些地區的辦公大樓基本上面良好。您看到租賃活動非常積極。這些核心市場中出現了不存在貸款人協助的銷售，這是令人欣喜的事。因此，您會看到一些基礎重置正在發生。

So that's the market we're paying attention to and hospitality similar with the stability of cost of capital -- flows of capital can all go in a multifamily, so you're seeing stable valuations there. So there's another area that we're paying close attention to.

所以這就是我們關注的市場，酒店業也與資本成本的穩定性類似——資本流動可以全部流向多戶型住宅，因此你會看到那裡的估值穩定。我們正在密切關注另一個領域。

Great, that's super helpful. And then if I could just ask about sort of the buyback announcement, obviously plan to be leverage neutral. Just curious about sort of the pace. Where sort of the funding sources will come from and so forth to execute on that in a leverage neutral way. Thanks.

太棒了，這非常有幫助。然後，如果我可以問一下有關回購公告的問題，顯然計劃保持槓桿中性。只是對這種節奏感到好奇。資金來源從何而來等等，以槓桿中性的方式執行。謝謝。

Hey Ron, it's Jay. Look, we think the stock is materially undervalued. You've heard us say that before. It's not just on a straight economics basis, but if you start thinking about the embedded inflation kickers, obviously, what we believe is worth, it can get quite compelling down at these levels. So we've been looking through the portfolio and looking at some of the possibilities of ways to access capital to take advantage of that, certainly -- particular asset sales, possible JVs.

嘿，羅恩，我是傑伊。看，我們認為該股票被嚴重低估了。您以前就聽我們說過這件事。這不僅僅是基於直接的經濟學基礎，如果你開始考慮內含的通膨因素，顯然，我們認為的價值在這些層面上會變得相當引人注目。因此，我們一直在研究投資組合，並尋找一些獲取資本的可能性，以利用這些資本，當然，特別是資產出售、可能的合資企業。

And we do think that this is the year we're going to find a way to unlock, Caret for more investors. So there's certainly a multiple-choice equation for us to find the right capital to create the most accretive way to use that authorization. It's going to take us a little bit of time to put all that together. But again, when we start the year with a significant undervaluation in our shares. We have to compare that against anything else we can do and right now it looks really compelling.

我們確實認為，今年我們將找到一種方法來為更多投資者解鎖 Caret。因此，我們當然需要一個多項選擇方程式來找到合適的資本，以創造最具增值的方式來利用該授權。我們需要花一點時間來把所有這些整合在一起。但是，當我們開始新的一年時，我們的股票卻被嚴重低估。我們必須將其與我們可以做的任何其他事情進行比較，現在它看起來確實引人注目。

Great, super helpful. Thank you.

太棒了，超級有幫助。謝謝。

Anthony Paolone, JP Morgan.

摩根大通的安東尼保隆 (Anthony Paolone)。

Yeah, thanks. Good morning. My first question relates to the affordable housing transactions you've been doing. I think we're all pretty familiar with the value proposition when you do ground lease deals on conventional assets, but can you maybe talk about just any differences in how this might work or how this -- what the sketch of the deal looks like for a sponsor when you do these [liteach] transactions?

是的，謝謝。早安.我的第一個問題與你們一直在進行的經濟適用房交易有關。我想我們都非常熟悉在傳統資產上進行土地租賃交易時的價值主張，但您能否談談這種交易的運作方式有何不同，或者當進行這些 [liteach] 交易時，對於發起人來說，交易的草圖是什麼樣的？

Yes, sure. It's Tim again. The basics of all this is the same as conventional, right. Our cost of capital is the cheapest around. So it provides low cost of capital into these [CapEx]. Affordable has a lot of differences to conventional the sources of these transactions have anywhere from 6 to 10 different sources coming from federal state, local loans, et cetera in these transactions. So obviously, we did a lot of work to make sure we understood all the different players here, make sure our structure works appropriately. But the biggest one in this is a gap filler, right?

是的，當然。又是蒂姆。這一切的基礎都和常規的一樣，對吧。我們的資本成本是最便宜的。因此，它為這些[資本支出]。可負擔貸款與傳統貸款有很多不同，這些交易的來源有 6 到 10 個不同的來源，包括聯邦、州、地方貸款等。因此顯然，我們做了很多工作來確保我們了解這裡的所有不同參與者，確保我們的結構正常運作。但其中最大的一個是填補空白，對嗎？

So that there's different cost of capital to all those different providers. So our cost of capital is significantly cheaper than a lot of those other alternatives to those gap Fillers. So that's one of the main keys. And then look, these developers are in this space, they're trying to get bond allocation, so if they can find any advantage to help their capital stacks to do so, they love to do it.

因此，所有不同的供應商的資本成本都不同。因此，我們的資本成本比許多其他填補空白的替代方案便宜得多。所以這是主要關鍵之一。然後看看，這些開發人員在這個領域，他們正在嘗試獲得債券配置，所以如果他們可以找到任何優勢來幫助他們的資本堆疊這樣做，他們喜歡這樣做。

So I think that's where we're seeing a lot of traction in the buildup of new sponsors as we've exec -- the first thing you got to execute and we've shown that to the market and that's helping us expand both on sponsor and now you're seeing on location.

因此，我認為這就是我們在執行新贊助商建設方面看到的巨大吸引力所在——這是你必須執行的第一件事，我們已經向市場展示了這一點，這有助於我們擴大贊助商規模，也有助於我們擴大地點規模。

Okay. And then just my follow up here, can you maybe just give us a sense as to where you see overhead for 2025 both on a gross and net basis.

好的。然後我接下來想問一下，您能否告訴我們，您認為 2025 年的間接費用總額和淨額是多少？

Yep. It's Brett. From a G&A perspective, we set out when we internalized the company that we thought it would take about $50 million a year to run this company. As you've seen last year, we were able to get that number down to the mid $40 million range on a net basis. That's netted the management fee.

是的。是布雷特。從一般及行政費用角度來看，我們在內部化這家公司時就預計每年運營這家公司大約需要 5,000 萬美元。正如您去年所看到的，我們能夠將這個數字降到淨值 4,000 萬美元左右。這就是扣除管理費後的淨額。

When you look at 2024, we were able to come in at around $37 million, $38 million that we were able to nicely beat our targets and continue to refine our overhead structure. Part of the calculus from this point going forward and you rightly point out is -- gross and net the management fee. And as the management fee comes down year to year, that'll be about a $5 million or so difference from 2024 to 2025.

展望 2024 年，我們的收入能夠達到約 3700 萬美元、3800 萬美元，我們能夠很好地超越我們的目標，並繼續優化我們的管理費用結構。從現在開始計算的一部分，正如你正確指出的那樣，是總管理費和淨管理費。而且隨著管理費逐年下降，2024 年至 2025 年的差額將約為 500 萬美元。

So if you take this year's -- this past year's number plus $5 million, you're in the low $40 million range. That's our target for this year on a net basis. And that includes obviously the direct impact of the management fee which for this year should be in the $10 million to low teens type range. So that's the gross and net figure for you.

因此，如果將今年的數字與去年的數字相加，則所得金額將在 4,000 萬美元左右。這是我們今年的淨目標。這顯然包括管理費的直接影響，今年的管理費應該在 1000 萬美元到 1000 萬美元左右。這就是您的總額和淨額數字。

Okay, great. Thank you.

好的，太好了。謝謝。

Haendel St. Juste, Mizuho.

亨德爾聖朱斯特（Haendel St. Juste）、瑞穗。

Hi there. This is Ravi Vaidya on the line for Haendel. I hope you guys are doing well. I guess if we think about your various capital deployment opportunities, how do you view buybacks versus new originations? And I guess what's the appetite for maybe more than the $50 million for buybacks of the stock here continues to lag sub [$20].

你好呀。我是拉維·瓦迪亞 (Ravi Vaidya)，代表亨德爾 (Haendel) 進行通話。我希望你們一切都好。我想，如果我們考慮您的各種資本配置機會，您如何看待回購與新發行？我想，對於回購股票的 5,000 萬美元以上的熱情可能持續低於【20美元】

Hey Ravi. So, our overarching theme is we need to scale this business. We think this is a very large opportunity and a lot of the unlock happens when you get to full scale. So that's still our main goal. But there are moments in time like today where we think the share price undervalues the fair value by a sufficient margin that it's worth considering. So we're going to start with this $50 million. We've got to create capital on a leverage neutral basis to use it.

嘿，拉維。因此，我們的首要主題是擴大這項業務。我們認為這是一個非常大的機會，當你完全投入時，很多機會就會實現。所以這仍然是我們的主要目標。但在今天這樣的時刻，我們認為股價低估了公允價值，且幅度夠大，值得考慮。因此我們將從這 5000 萬美元開始。我們必須在槓桿中性的基礎上創造資本來使用它。

So this will be the first, sort of tiering. Where our real hope is as the market opens up, the opportunity set opens up, the opportunity to scale. So I would say we're trying to do both. We're trying to take advantage of a below market share price, but we're also still eyes on the prize, which is -- this business, we still believe as $25 billion, $50 billion type sizing opportunity for the leader in the marketplace which we want to be.

因此，這將是第一次分層。我們真正的希望是，隨著市場開放，機會也隨之開放，擴大規模的機會也隨之開放。所以我想說我們正在嘗試同時做到這兩點。我們正在嘗試利用低於市場的股價，但我們仍然專注於獎項，也就是——這項業務，我們仍然相信對於我們希望成為市場領導者來說，是一個價值 250 億美元、500 億美元的規模機會。

So the goal is not to shrink, it's really to grow. But when you're offered a fairly compelling, a way to capture value for shareholders, we'd like to look at ways to take advantage of that.

因此我們的目標不是縮小，而是成長。但當你獲得相當引人注目的、為股東獲取價值的方法時，我們會想辦法利用它。

Thank you. That's helpful. Just one more here. You mentioned earlier in your prepared remarks regarding opening up another Caret to more investors. Can you please offer more color on that in terms of maybe pricing or dollar value or timing and maybe what potential uses of that capital could be? Thanks.

謝謝。這很有幫助。這裡再說一個。您之前在準備好的發言中提到過向更多投資者開放另一個 Caret。您能否就定價、美元價值或時間等方面提供更多詳細信息，以及這些資本的潛在用途？謝謝。

Sure. Look, over the past six months, we've talked to a number of interested investors who've gotten their feedback. The two main themes are, the long term liquidity and the growth prospects. Certainly have a strong viewpoint on the future growth prospects. The liquidity -- the long term liquidity is something we've been talking about internally. And now we've begun working with our Caret advisory board. When we look at other attractive but illiquid asset classes, how can we enhance the future liquidity? How can we expand this investor base? We still think this is a natural fit for lots of family offices and lots of different types of investors, but it will be an impediment if they can't see a path to liquidity over the long term.

當然。你看，在過去的六個月裡，我們已經與許多有興趣的投資者進行了交談，並得到了他們的回饋。兩個主要主題是長期流動性和成長前景。當然，對未來的成長前景有堅定的看法。流動性－長期流動性是我們內部一直在討論的問題。現在我們已經開始與 Caret 顧問委員會合作。當我們看看其他有吸引力但流動性較差的資產類別時，我們如何增強未來的流動性？我們如何擴大這個投資者基礎？我們仍然認為，這對許多家族辦公室和許多不同類型的投資者來說是自然而然的，但如果他們看不到長期流動性的途徑，這將成為一種障礙。

So we're working on some ideas on that front. Again, early stages on that but I think we have some traction internally in terms of ideas. So that's definitely a goal for 2025 and I would be really disappointed if this year, we didn't make some progress on that front.

因此我們正在研究這方面的一些想法。再次強調，這還處於早期階段，但我認為我們在想法方面內部已經取得了一些進展。所以這絕對是 2025 年的目標，如果今年我們在這方面沒有取得一些進展，我會非常失望。

Okay.

好的。

Caitlin Burrows, Goldman Sachs.

高盛的凱特琳·伯羅斯 (Caitlin Burrows)。

Hi, good morning, everyone. Maybe a follow up to one of the questions from before on the affordable side. Can you just go through the differences between traditional and multi family and affordable -- perhaps for now like why affordable is more active today? And then long term, is there any difference to Safehold on traditional versus affordable, like the yield lease coverage or anything else -- attractiveness.

大家早安。也許是針對先前關於經濟實惠方面的一個問題進行的後續回答。您能否簡單介紹一下傳統家庭住宅、多戶型住宅和經濟適用房之間的差異——也許就目前而言，例如為什麼經濟適用房在今天更為活躍？那麼從長期來看，Safehold 在傳統和經濟實惠方面是否存在差異，例如收益租賃覆蓋率或其他任何東西——吸引力。

Yeah. Sure. Caitlin. Look, I think that the key is that we all know and read the headlines that obviously there's a significant housing shortage in the US and a lot of that's on the affordable side. So the stability of that platform nationally is quite impressive. So the number of units that are delivered in 2024 was in the 70,000 range nationwide.

是的。當然。凱特琳。聽著，我認為關鍵在於我們都知道並讀到頭條新聞，美國顯然存在嚴重的住房短缺，而且很多都是經濟適用房。因此，該平台在全國範圍內的穩定性令人印象深刻。因此，2024 年全國交付的單位數量將達到 70,000 套左右。

That's consistent with what it was from the last three years before that, it was slightly lower than that around 60,000. So you see, even despite the volatility in rates and how the other market rate side is performed both on deliveries and just the performance of them, you're seeing the stability in both the delivery. And then as Jay mentioned in his opening remarks, the stability of the assets, right?

這與之前三年的情況一致，略低於 60,000 左右。因此，您會看到，儘管利率波動以及其他市場利率在交割和表現上的表現，您仍會看到交割和表現的穩定性。然後正如傑伊在開場白中提到的，資產的穩定性，對嗎？

High demand for these units, they're very high occupancy and then stable growth with how their size in terms of the rent being paid based on local [AMI], so it's all fixed. So that then the sort of the pleasant thing to see is a sort of nice baseline of deals even when there is market volatility. So I think that was the part that attracted to us. Obviously, we had to learn all the different players in that market, make sure that we fit in nicely there. I'm sorry, Caitlin, the second question, I'm not sure I answered it -- The second part.

這些單位的需求量很大，入住率很高，而且其規模穩定增長，租金是根據當地[AMI]支付的，所以都是固定的。因此，即使市場波動，也令人高興的是看到交易的良好基線。所以我認為這就是吸引我們的部分。顯然，我們必須了解該市場的所有不同參與者，確保我們能夠很好地融入其中。抱歉，凱特琳，第二個問題，我不確定我是否回答了——第二部分。

Like when you think long term of how an affordable kind of ground lease is held the characteristics of it versus a traditional one? Are there any differences in like ground lease to value or anything like that you target or would they be similar?

例如，當您從長遠角度考慮如何持有一種經濟實惠的土地租賃時，它與傳統租賃相比有何特徵？您所針對的土地租賃價值或類似物件是否有差異，或者它們是否相似？

Sure. Similar, I think is a quick answer. The stability though, I think you'll see some tighter coverages there because it's so stable. It's effectively, net lease because of the stability of a lot of these jurisdictions that we're going into. So, and then in terms of rates, same as high end conventional multifamily, we're going into, core markets with core sponsors. Again, with a solid growth on the AMI side and the demographics that you're paying attention to in the affordable space almost more so than anything else. So we're seeing again, the stability of that asset class helps us get comfortable as well.

當然。類似，我認為是一個快速的答案。不過，就穩定性而言，我認為你會看到一些更嚴格的覆蓋，因為它非常穩定。由於我們進入的許多司法管轄區都很穩定，所以它實際上是淨租賃。因此，就利率而言，與高端傳統多戶型住宅一樣，我們將與核心贊助商一起進入核心市場。再次，AMI 方面實現了穩步增長，而您在可負擔得起的空間中的人口統計數據幾乎比其他任何事情都更受關注。因此，我們再次看到，該資產類別的穩定性也有助於我們感到安心。

I'd add two things to that, Caitlin. One is, unlike conventional multifamily, these tax credits are limited. So there is a cap, it's allocated across states and that's the pool of money to play with. And what ground leases do is help stretch that pool of money into more units -- more affordable units. So we think there's a real market demand for affordable and we can help developers meet that. So very different in the sense that the pool of equity is limited whereas in multi family, it's basically unlimited.

凱特琳，我想補充兩點。一是，與傳統的多戶住宅不同，這些稅收抵免是有限的。因此有一個上限，它在各州之間分配，這就是可供使用的資金池。土地租賃的作用是幫助將這筆資金用於建造更多的房屋——更便宜的房屋。因此，我們認為市場對經濟實惠的產品確實有需求，我們可以幫助開發商滿足這項需求。因此，在多戶家庭中，股權池是有限的，而股權池基本上是無限的，因此有很大不同。

And the other thing we see that's interesting is, these are hard to put together. So ultimately, our basis is a bigger discount to replacement cost. But because the revenues are capped and they have some similar metrics to traditional multifamily, but we know how hard these things are to put together and on a replacement cost basis, it's actually more attractive than traditional multifamily.

我們發現的另一件有趣的事情是，這些東西很難組合在一起。因此，最終我們的基礎是更大的重置成本折扣。但是因為收入是有上限的，而且它們有一些與傳統多戶型住宅類似的指標，但我們知道這些東西組合起來有多難，而且在重置成本的基礎上，它實際上比傳統的多戶型住宅更具吸引力。

So there's a lot of compelling reasons. It's a hard business, it's a nuanced business. We've spent an enormous amount of time learning those ins and outs. We're going to have to do that state by state. But the teams have done a really good job in California and now we're going to take that knowledge and sort of move eastward.

因此有很多令人信服的理由。這是一件艱難的事，也是一項微妙的事。我們花了大量的時間來了解這些細節。我們必須逐州地進行這項工作。但這些團隊在加州的表現非常出色，現在我們要帶著這些知識向東邁進。

Got it and then switching gears, it sounds like in '25 you might be to the extent you're doing new investments, funding that with dispositions or JVs. When you do that, would you expect that there would be a positive spread like acquiring or investing at a higher yield than the dispositions?

明白了，然後換個話題，聽起來在 25 年你可能會進行新的投資，透過處置或合資來提供資金。當您這樣做時，您是否會期望出現正利差，例如收購或投資的收益率高於處置的收益率？

Yeah, that's one of the metrics we obviously will be focused on. We look at the impact, relative to the NAVs we see relative to, again, as I mentioned, some of the embedded value that maybe the market doesn't see, but we certainly believe in and our board believes in. So there's a mix of metrics that we pay careful attention to. Again, long term, we want to scale this business. But when the sources and uses line up and can be value added for shareholders, we're going to find a way to take advantage of that.

是的，這顯然是我們重點關注的指標之一。我們會看相對於淨值的影響，正如我剛才提到的，一些內含價值可能是市場沒有看到的，但我們和我們的董事會都相信。因此，我們會密切關注多種指標。再說一次，從長遠來看，我們希望擴大這項業務。但當來源和用途一致並能為股東增加價值時，我們就會找到一種方法來利用這一點。

Thanks.

謝謝。

Kenneth Lee, RBC Capital Markets.

加拿大皇家銀行資本市場 (RBC Capital Markets) 的 Kenneth Lee。

Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Just one follow up on the affordable multifamily. The previous comments there -- the returns being potentially more attractive than traditional. Fair to say that the economic yields associated with ground leases for affordable multifamily would be higher than what you're seeing for other properties. I just want to get a little bit more color on that. Thanks.

嘿，早安。感謝您回答這個問題。只需對經濟實惠的多戶住宅進行一次跟進。先前的評論是——回報可能比傳統更有吸引力。公平地說，經濟適用型多戶住宅土地租賃的經濟收益將高於其他房產的經濟收益。我只是想對此了解更多一些細節。謝謝。

Yeah, if I understand the question correctly, what's our cost of capital on those deals? And the answer to that is they're the same. There's no difference between our cost of capital on a conventional deal versus a affordable deal.

是的，如果我理解正確的話，我們在這些交易中的資本成本是多少？答案是它們是一樣的。傳統交易和可負擔交易的資本成本沒有差別。

Got you. Very helpful there. And then just in terms of the share repurchase program, the potential usage there and you mentioned being leverage neutral. Once again, it sounds like there could be some portfolio changes and or dispositions occurring right around the same time for repurchases. And that's sort of like when the key gaining factor so to speak determining repurchases. But once again, just want to get my understanding clarified there. Thanks.

明白了。非常有幫助。然後就股票回購計劃而言，那裡的潛在用途以及您提到的槓桿中性。再次，聽起來好像在回購的同時可能會發生一些投資組合變化和/或處置。這有點像是決定回購的關鍵收益因素。但再次強調，我只是想澄清我的理解。謝謝。

Yeah, look, we don't want to increase that. We have a long-term goal there, that we're going to stick to. But this is a moment where we need to look hard at the portfolio. Historically, we haven't really been interested in selling assets. Again, we're trying to scale the business, not shrink the business. We think there's a pot of gold at the end of reaching that scale that the market doesn't see yet.

是的，你看，我們不想增加這個數字。我們有一個長期目標，我們會堅持下去。但現在我們需要認真檢視投資組合。從歷史上看，我們實際上對出售資產並不感興趣。再說一遍，我們正在努力擴大業務，而不是縮小業務。我們認為，在達到這一規模之後，將會發現市場尚未看到的一大筆金礦。

But this is a moment in time where we see possibilities and we want to go explore them and see if there's an opportunity to make one plus one equal, more than two. There's some work to do obviously. As everyone on this call has pointed out, you want this to be a creative, you want it to be value accretive, you want it to be earnings accretive and you want it to be leverage neutral. So things do need to line up.

但此刻我們看到了各種可能性，我們想去探索它們，看看是否有機會讓一加一等於二。顯然還有一些工作要做。正如參加這次電話會議的每個人都指出的那樣，你希望它具有創造性，你希望它能夠增值，你希望它能夠增值，你希望它能夠保持槓桿中性。所以事情確實需要有序進行。

But we've got the team sort of working on all fronts to find ways to create capital that either can be deployed in new transactions or can be used to take advantage of dislocations in the share price versus what we think fair value is. So it's an ongoing process. It strikes us that, there are opportunities in the portfolio to take advantage of. And so we're going to begin that process now and really figure out how we can create the kind of capital that can be accretive for shareholders.

但我們已經讓團隊在各個方面努力尋找創造資本的方法，這些資本要么可以部署在新的交易中，要么可以用來利用股價與我們認為的公允價值之間的錯位。所以這是一個持續的過程。我們突然意識到，投資組合中存在著可供利用的機會。所以我們現在就要開始這個過程，真正搞清楚如何創造能為股東帶來增值的資本。

Got you very. Helpful there. Thanks again.

非常明白你的意思。很有幫助。再次感謝。

Mitch Germain, Citizen JMP.

米奇·傑曼（Mitch Germain），Citizen JMP。

Just curious what the characteristics are for the types of assets that you might consider as sale candidates or JV candidates.

只是好奇您可能考慮作為銷售候選人或合資候選人的資產類型具有哪些特徵。

We have customers who have come back to us at various points in time. Generally if we can't redeploy the money more profitably, we have to tell them it's of no interest. If we do have attractive ways to redeploy it, that's a conversation worth having. I think we've only sold one asset in our history. So there's probably opportunities that, we can take advantage of there.

我們有客戶在不同的時間點回來找我們。一般來說，如果我們不能以更有利可圖的方式重新部署這筆資金，我們就必須告訴他們這筆錢是沒有利息的。如果我們確實有有吸引力的方法來重新部署它，那麼這是值得進行的對話。我認為我們歷史上只出售過一項資產。因此，那裡可能存在我們可以利用的機會。

But, I think the JVs we've done in the past have given us some comfort that there's a real interest in this asset class. It's hard to assemble a portfolio. It's hard to get diversification. So I think we'd look to take advantage of that dynamic, larger and more diversified that is probably better than one off. But, we'll be thoughtful across all the opportunities.

但我認為，我們過去建立的合資企業讓我們感到欣慰，因為人們對這個資產類別確實感興趣。組建一個投資組合非常困難。很難實現多樣化。因此我認為我們應該利用這種動態、更大、更多樣化的優勢，這可能比一次性的優勢更好。但，我們會認真考慮所有的機會。

Great. And, and Jay, maybe while I have you, obviously you're doing some structuring around the Caret, it seems like -- does that preclude you from selling a steak in the current Caret? Or is that off the table for now as you work on trying to find solutions to create some more enhanced liquidity in the product?

偉大的。而且，傑伊，也許當我有你的時候，顯然你正在圍繞 Caret 進行一些結構化，看起來——這是否會阻止你在當前的 Caret 中出售牛排？或者說，由於您正在努力尋找解決方案，以增強產品的流動性，因此目前這方面的問題還不能解決？

Yeah, look, the Caret program was set up to anticipating future sales of unissued but authorized Carets, there's a fixed number. But there's plenty of room inside of that to meet the needs of enhancing liquidity -- future liquidity and expanding the investor base. So we think we've got the tools to achieve what we need to achieve. We've gotten good investor feedback from interested parties who we think are the natural parties who should own Caret.

是的，你看，Caret 計劃的設立是為了預測未來未發行但授權的 Caret 的銷售量，這是一個固定的數量。但其中仍有足夠的空間來滿足增強流動性——未來流動性和擴大投資者基礎的需求。因此我們認為我們已經擁有了實現所需目標的工具。我們從相關方獲得了良好的投資者回饋，我們認為他們理應是 Caret 的擁有者。

And again, it revolves around the two big drivers of Caret growth and I don't have 100 year line of sight. How can I feel good about future long term liquidity? So we've got some ideas on how to do that. We're not going to reinvent the wheel. There are other folks who've, kind of figured this out. We're going to explore whether those can work for Caret as well.

再說一次，它圍繞著 Caret 成長的兩大驅動力，而我沒有 100 年的視線。我怎樣才能對未來的長期流動性感到滿意？我們對如何做到這一點有一些想法。我們不會重新發明輪子。其他人也已經弄清楚了這一點。我們將探索這些是否也適用於 Caret。

Thank You.

謝謝。

Rich Anderson, Wedbush.

里奇安德森，韋德布希。

Hey, thanks. Good morning. So just maybe a finer point on the buyback slash funding of that through perhaps asset sales and JVs. I assume a couple of things are going to happen perhaps simultaneously, which is, you sell assets, you trigger potentially a Caret gain, you show off, a path to liquidity and you get investors that way. Am I thinking about this, right? That this could all sort of come together at the same time?

嘿，謝謝。早安.因此，也許可以透過資產出售和合資企業等方式實現回購和融資的更好方式。我認為有幾件事可能會同時發生，那就是，你出售資產，你可能會觸發 Caret 收益，你炫耀一條流動性之路，然後你就會以這種方式獲得投資者。我是不是正在想這個啊？這一切能同時發生嗎？

Yeah, I think we have to have a high degree of comfort that we can access the right kind of capital. And again, I think it can come from a number of sources Rich, I'm not sure. It has to be a large gain to make sense given where the share price is, but it needs to be accretive on some of the key metrics that we track. So our goal will be first to find the source piece and then look at the share price at that moment and make sure it works to create value for shareholders. But obviously, right now that dynamic looks like it can happen.

是的，我認為我們必須高度放心地獲得正確的資本。再說一次，我認為它可以來自多個來源，Rich，我不確定。考慮到股價水平，這必須是一個很大的收益才有意義，但它需要在我們追蹤的一些關鍵指標上實現增值。因此，我們的目標首先是找到源頭，然後查看當時的股價，確保它能為股東創造價值。但顯然，現在這種動態看起來有可能發生。

Yeah. Okay. And then something that hasn't been brought up in this call yet. Closing in on the end of your your master release with Park wondering if you have any comment on what's going on there. If there's been any movement at all in terms of the renegotiation of some sorts.

是的。好的。還有一些在這次通話中還沒有被提出的問題。您即將與 Park 完成主發布會，想知道您對那裡發生的事情有何評論。如果在某些方面的重新談判方面有任何進展的話。

Yeah. You know, that's why we've had a dialogue for quite a while. We continue to look for ways to maximize the opportunity and I think they're doing the same. We haven't come to a meeting of (inaudible), but clearly there's a dialogue as that one continues to tick.

是的。你知道，這就是我們進行對話已有相當長一段時間的原因。我們將繼續尋找方法來最大限度地利用機會，我認為他們也在做同樣的事情。我們還沒有參加（聽不清楚）會議，但顯然對話正在進行中。

Okay. And if I could just sneak in one more on this multifamily focus. Is there a point where you get too invested in multifamily as a percentage of the total pie? Are you kind of keeping your eye on that or are you kind of sort of agnostic at this point in terms of, getting leverage to the multifamily product that sits on top of your ground leases. Thanks.

好的。如果我還能再偷偷談這個多戶型焦點的話。您是否在某一點上對多戶型住宅的投資佔總投資的比例過大了？您是否在關注這一點，或者您目前對如何利用基於土地租賃的多戶型產品持懷疑態度。謝謝。

The first time we've been asked that question. The multifamily getting too big. Look, it's a class that we have strong believes in the fundamentals and stability there. And again, back to the affordable side too, the housing shortage isn't just in the affordable side. And obviously the cost of homeownership is helping that trend even more so recently. So I wouldn't say that's a focus of ours to look at that percentage. We see that as a solid growth area.

這是我們第一次被問到這個問題。多戶家庭的規模變得太大。你看，我們堅信這階層的基本面和穩定性。再說回可負擔住房問題，住房短缺不僅存在於可負擔住房方面。顯然，最近房屋所有權的成本更助長了這個趨勢。所以我不認為我們的重點是關注這個百分比。我們認為這是一個穩健的成長領域。

And we still start with the premise of all these good locations, is this dense infill are the good supply demand characteristics in the market overall demographics. So I think we're a little less agnostic to the market share of multifamily as a percentage of the portfolio. The long term dynamics of multi family argue for us continuing to push on it. But again, as you know, we start with the land, we start with the dirt, we start with the location. And so that'll keep -- we'll keep that front and center.

我們仍然從所有這些良好位置的前提開始，這種密集填充是市場整體人口統計中良好的供需特徵。因此，我認為我們對多戶型住宅在投資組合中所佔的市場份額的了解不是那麼清楚。多戶家庭的長期發展動態主張我們繼續推動這項進程。但是，正如你所知，我們從土地開始，從泥土開始，從位置開始。因此，我們將繼續把這一點放在首位。

Okay. Thanks very much, everyone.

好的。非常感謝大家。

Ki Bin Kim, Truist.

Ki Bin Kim，Truist。

Thank you. Good morning. I just want to go back to the previous topic about monetizing (inaudible) possibly. You mentioned that there might be a couple of examples in the marketplace that have vehicles that have liquidity and such security. Can you just help educate us on what those examples might look like?

謝謝。早安.我只是想回到之前關於貨幣化（聽不清楚）的話題。您提到，市場上可能存在一些具有流動性和安全性的工具的例子。您能幫助我們了解這些例子是什麼樣的嗎？

Yeah, I think it's a little premature to talk about the specifics, but there are other asset classes, illiquid asset classes that some of the large complexes have figured out how to create a long-term liquidity for the types of shareholders and investors that we would obviously like to talk to. We can't really talk about it. But you know, this is not something that hasn't been done before in different ways and we'll look at all of those.

是的，我認為現在談論具體細節還為時過早，但還有其他資產類別，非流動性資產類別，一些大型綜合體已經找到瞭如何為我們顯然想談論的股東和投資者類型創造長期流動性的方法。我們確實不能談論它。但你知道，這並不是以前沒有以不同方式完成過的事情，我們會研究所有這些方法。

Okay. And in 2025 I was curious on a steady state basis will be covering the dividend?

好的。我很好奇，2025 年在穩定狀態下是否會覆蓋股息？

Hey Ki, It's Brett. Yeah, our goal remains to effectively pay out our FFO or operating cash flow. I think what you've seen coming out of the internalization and the transition period along with a higher [ray] in the environment has created a situation over 2023 and 2024 that's starting to get to a more steady state.

嘿，Ki，我是 Brett。是的，我們的目標仍然是有效地支付我們的 FFO 或營運現金流。我認為，您所看到的內化和過渡期以及環境中更高的 [射線] 創造了一種在 2023 年和 2024 年開始進入更加穩定狀態的情況。

So some of our goals for 2025 just in rewinding back of how we wanting to capitalize this company. You've seen us in the debt capital markets, utilize various forms of capital, one of them commercial paper to lower our costs. Another one is repricing our revolving credit facility, lowering our cost. Another is going out to the long term debt capital markets and kind of getting back to those bespoke capital structures that we've exhibited over the years.

因此，我們 2025 年的一些目標只是回顧了我們希望如何利用這家公司。你已經看到我們在債務資本市場中利用各種形式的資本，其中之一就是商業票據來降低我們的成本。另一個是重新定價我們的循環信用額度，降低我們的成本。另一個是進入長期債務資本市場，回歸我們多年來所展示的客製化資本結構。

Some of the stair step structures, ones where we're able to reduce some of our cash costs from the liability side. So the more we can do that the better and we can continue to close the gap, when we look at, kind of the run rate or go forward, if you take all of those in combination, all of those are working, that's certainly going to get us to a much better place. And that is our goal to cover and be able to pay out all the operating cash flow.

透過一些階梯式結構，我們可以從負債方面減少一些現金成本。因此，我們做得越多就越好，我們就可以繼續縮小差距，當我們看運行率或前進時，如果將所有這些結合起來，所有這些都在發揮作用，這肯定會讓我們處於更好的位置。我們的目標是覆蓋並支付所有的營運現金流。

Okay. Thank you, guys.

好的。謝謝你們。

Harsh Hemnani, Green Street.

哈什‧赫姆納尼 (Harsh Hemnani)，綠街。

Thanks. So given the buyback program you've put in place, it sort of brings up the bigger picture question of how you're thinking of your cost of equity at this time. You know, what do you think is the appropriate spread over treasuries that makes for an adequate discount rate for this company?

謝謝。因此，考慮到您實施的回購計劃，這引出了一個更大的問題，即您目前如何考慮股權成本。您認為，對於這家公司來說，什麼樣的國債利差才合適才能獲得足夠的折現率？

And then, maybe a second part to that is one of the reasons you outlined that your stock might be undervalued is the market not appreciating the value of Caret. But on the other side of that, you also mentioned that one of the ways you could keep all of your buybacks, leverage neutral is to raise some proceeds from selling Carets.

然後，也許第二部分是，您概述的股票可能被低估的原因之一是市場沒有認識到 Caret 的價值。但另一方面，您也提到，保持所有回購、槓桿中性的方法之一是透過出售 Carets 來籌集一些收益。

So how do you, help us think about how you're able to square selling Carets at these valuations and these prices to return capital to shareholders.

那麼，您能幫助我們思考如何以這些估值和價格出售 Carets 以將資本回饋給股東嗎？

Sure. So two things Harsh. Let's talk about our core belief is if we can create higher returns than comparable maturity, comparable credit risk instruments in the market that we're adding value and we're creating real alpha. So if you think about the 100-year bond complex that we track, it's in the mid fives that includes, a fairly diverse group of bonds.

當然。所以有兩件事很苛刻。讓我們來談談我們的核心信念：如果我們能夠創造比市場上同類期限、同類信用風險工具更高的回報，那麼我們就增加了價值並創造了真正的阿爾法。因此，如果您考慮我們追蹤的 100 年期債券綜合體，它位於五年中期，其中包括一組相當多樣化的債券。

Yeah, we think that's the benchmark, that we got to beat that. And our historical goal is to beat that by 100 basis points on a yield to maturity basis or an IRR basis. And if you can beat a high-grade benchmark by 100 basis points and call protected for 99 years. We think you've added real value. If you can then add inflation protection, which that complex of bonds does not have, you've added even more value. And if you can ensure a significant capital gain a diversified portfolio, which history tells us we might be able to do, then you've added even more value.

是的，我們認為這是基準，我們必須超越它。我們的歷史目標是在到期收益率或 IRR 基礎上超過此目標 100 個基點。如果您的利率能比高等級基準利率高出 100 個基點，則可以獲得 99 年的保護。我們認為您已經增加了真正的價值。如果你能加入通膨保護（這是這類債券所不具備的），那麼你就增加了更多的價值。如果你能確保多元化投資組合獲得可觀的資本利得（歷史告訴我們我們可以做到這一點），那麼你就增加了更多的價值。

So when we think about our cost of capital, we really benchmark, where else can you buy the same sort of cash flow streams? The market tells us what that benchmark is. And then we try to create around that aim. Leverage profile that helps us even enhance the value we're creating on the asset side. So that's how we start the premise of how do we create incremental value and what is the benchmark? What is effectively an unlevered cost of capital that we need to be when we deploy capital in the ground lease space?

因此，當我們考慮資本成本時，我們真正要衡量的是，在哪裡還能買到相同類型的現金流？市場告訴我們這個基準是什麼。然後我們嘗試圍繞這個目標進行創造。槓桿狀況可以幫助我們提高在資產方面創造的價值。這就是我們開始討論如何創造增量價值的前提以及基準是什麼？當我們在土地租賃空間部署資本時，我們需要的有效無槓桿資本成本是多少？

And right now again, we would say, you know, the new deals we're doing are well north of 100 basis points wider just on a yield to maturity basis also have inflation protection and have that upside potentially through the future reversion. So still strikes us that there's a pretty widespread between what the effective asset value we're creating and our cost of capital.

現在，我們可以再次說，您知道，我們進行的新交易僅在到期收益率上就遠遠超出了 100 個基點，並且還具有通膨保護作用，並且可能透過未來的回歸實現上行空間。因此，我們仍然感到震驚的是，我們創造的有效資產價值和資本成本之間存在相當大的差距。

And then in terms of Caret, let's talk about -- right now, we don't think we're getting much value obviously given where the share price is. So taking small steps to unlock value makes sense to us. Even though internally I tell you, we think, the valuation that we did our last round with was below what we truly believe the stabilized scaled value of care will be.

然後就 Caret 而言，讓我們來談談——現在，考慮到股價的水平，我們認為我們顯然不會獲得太多價值。因此，採取小步驟來釋放價值對我們來說是有意義的。儘管我內部告訴你，我們認為，我們上一輪的估值低於我們真正認為的穩定的護理價值。

But it's not hard for us to sort of square the circle you talked about by saying, if we're not getting any credit for it in the public market evaluation, how can we unlock something more than zero and potentially unlock a lot more than that? We think expanding the shareholder base, creating the kind of investor names that people will understand, have done a ton of work on Caret and come to the conclusion they want to own it.

但對我們來說，解決您提到的問題並不難，如果我們在公開市場評估中沒有獲得任何信譽，我們如何解鎖超過零的東西，甚至可能解鎖更多的東西？我們認為擴大股東基礎、創造人們能夠理解的投資者名稱，已經在 Caret 上做了大量工作，並得出了他們想擁有它的結論。

We think that's maybe a quarter step backwards and five steps forward. So we don't see any conflict between selling some Carets at a value that is substantially above where we think the public share price reflects, while it may be a little bit less than we would like and certainly a lot less than we think it will ultimately be worth. It's a major step forward for the company and a major step forward for shareholders to understand what they really own. So no conflict there. In fact, I think the opposite, I think the more people we can get involved and invested in Caret, the quicker the share price will start to reflect the true value.

我們認為這也許是後退四分之一步，前進五步。因此，我們認為，以遠高於我們認為的公開股價所反映的價格出售部分 Carets 並不存在任何衝突，儘管它可能比我們希望的要低一點，但肯定比我們認為的最終價值要低很多。這對公司來說是向前邁出的重要一步，對股東來說也是了解自己真正擁有的東西向前邁出的重要一步。因此那裡沒有衝突。事實上，我的想法恰恰相反，我認為參與和投資 Caret 的人越多，股價就越快反映出真實價值。

Okay? That's fair. And I agree with you, so at this point, if you believe that you can still create a 100 basis points of spread or over 100 basis points of spread over your cost of capital at these equity prices, then why not continue to focus on growing the portfolio even in the near term? I know that's the long term target. But even in the near term, rather than focusing on buybacks.

好的？這很公平。我同意你的觀點，所以在這一點上，如果你相信你仍然可以在這些股票價格下創造 100 個基點的利差或超過 100 個基點的資本成本利差，那麼為什麼不繼續專注於在短期內增加投資組合呢？我知道這是長期目標。但即使在短期內，也不要把重點放在回購上。

You look, this is not a giant buyback program. It is reflective of the choices we have with capital. And as I said earlier, we want to do both. Our goal is to scale. Our goal is to be leverage neutral and in any sort of buyback scenario. But it's fair to say for shareholders in 2025, if the share price isn't going to move, that needs to be on the table. And you know, we were able to convince our Board that, we will be judicious and prudent and thoughtful, but it is our job to figure out a way to take advantage of something we think is miss priced.

你看，這並不是大規模的回購計畫。它反映了我們對資本的選擇。正如我之前所說，我們想兩者兼顧。我們的目標是擴大規模。我們的目標是保持槓桿中性並適用於任何類型的回購情境。但公平地說，對於 2025 年的股東來說，如果股價不動，就需要將其擺到桌面上。你知道，我們能夠說服董事會，我們將明智、審慎和深思熟慮，但我們的工作是想辦法利用我們認為定價錯誤的東西。

So let's see where we go with this, but let's not be confused. We want to scale this business. We think our footprint growing in lots of different markets is value enhancing long term for shareholders, but we do need to make sure that our equity share price reflects that value. And right now, we don't think it does.

因此，讓我們看看該如何處理，但不要感到困惑。我們想擴大這個業務。我們認為，我們在許多不同市場的擴張將為股東帶來長期價值提升，但我們確實需要確保我們的股價能夠反映出這一價值。而目前，我們認為情況並非如此。

Okay. Last one from me, on the affordable housing side where you're expanding investments, it seems like, -- going back maybe three, four years, it felt like the safehold target ground lease was almost under -- definitely in the top 30 markets but almost under trophy buildings. And it sounded like the philosophy behind that was trophy buildings and top markets, the sponsors will be incentivized to keep investing in those and that over the long term will lead to sort of higher UCA, higher value for Caret and higher I guess value that will be captured by Safehold and the ground lease eventually matures.

好的。最後我想說的是，在您正在擴大投資的經濟適用房方面，回顧大概三、四年前，感覺安全目標土地租賃幾乎低於——肯定在前 30 個市場，但幾乎低於獎杯建築。這背後的理念聽起來是，透過建造獎杯和頂級市場，贊助商將被激勵繼續對其進行投資，從長遠來看，這將帶來更高的 UCA，Caret 的價值更高，我猜 Safehold 將獲得更高的價值，並且土地租賃最終到期。

How are you thinking of that in the context of affordable housing where they might be in good markets? But they may not be in the center of those markets. They might not be as good submarkets, but the building also doesn't necessarily incentivize ongoing equity investment in there. So how are you thinking of the long term UCA on these assets?

在經濟適用房可能處於良好市場的背景下，您如何看待這一點？但它們可能並不位於這些市場的中心。它們可能不是很好的子市場，但建築物也不清楚能激勵在那裡進行持續的股權投資。那麼您如何看待這些資產的長期 UCA？

So there was a bunch in there. I think the first thing is that we really focus on trophy locations and Jay alluded that earlier. This is all about where the asset class, whether it be affordable, conventional office hospitality, anything, location is key. So in its infill location, good demographics, good growth, all the things that we look at as 99-year holders.

所以那裡有一堆。我認為第一件事是我們真正專注於獎杯的位置，傑伊之前也提到了這一點。這一切都與資產類別有關，無論是經濟實惠的、傳統的辦公室接待或其他什麼，地點都是關鍵。因此，在其填充位置、良好的人口結構、良好的成長等方面，所有這些都是我們作為 99 年持有者所關注的因素。

So I think that's the key part just to answer the macro where we've been investing with our assets and what we have that's a consistent theme. And then I think we brought up the affordable spaces, it's probably more one that's a macro thought of where it is affordable. It's actually next door. These assets are right next door to conventional assets and very high quality markets and very high quality locations. And these are the ones that you've seen transacted here. All these have been brand new builds and core trophy location type areas and they're built just as they are for conventional.

所以我認為這是回答宏觀問題的關鍵部分，我們一直在用我們的資產進行投資，而我們所擁有的是一個一致的主題。然後我認為我們提出了可負擔的空間，這可能更像是一個關於哪裡可負擔的宏觀想法。它實際上就在隔壁。這些資產與傳統資產、極高品質的市場和極高品質的位置緊鄰。這些就是您在這裡看到的交易。所有這些都是全新的建築和核心獎杯位置類型的區域，它們的建造方式與傳統的建造方式完全一樣。

So if you're doing a [sitcom] podium multifamily deal, conventional, there's one next door that's an affordable transaction. So build the same specs, right, the money coming from federal state so that they're not going to have an asset that's not high quality. So, and then, I think the stability of this in terms of the need for it and cash being invested in it because again order to get the capital, you have to show that you're keeping these assets up and running.

因此，如果您正在進行[情境喜劇] 平台型多戶住宅交易，那麼傳統意義上來說，隔壁就有一處價格實惠的交易。因此，建立相同的規格，對吧，資金來自聯邦政府，這樣他們就不會擁有品質不高的資產。所以，我認為它的穩定性取決於對它的需求以及對它的現金投資，因為為了獲得資本，你必須證明你正在保持這些資產的正常運作。

You can see this here in New York on anything that has affordability, you have to make sure that these assets are maintained appropriately for the clients inside of it. So I think those are all positive for us in terms of getting location and then upkeep because these are long term holders. These are not merchant builders, these are people who hold these assets long term with high capital -- sorry, human capital investment to make their returns and their business work. So it's very engaged sponsorship.

你可以在紐約看到任何價格實惠的東西，你必須確保這些資產能夠為其中的客戶進行適當的維護。因此我認為這些對於我們獲取位置和維護都是有利的，因為他們是長期持有者。這些人不是商人建設者，而是用高額資本（對不起，是人力資本投資）長期持有這些資產的人，以獲得回報並使他們的業務運作。因此，這是非常積極的贊助。

Yeah, look, we're not going to sit here and tell you that everything is a trophy location. Certainly downtown CBDs, in great locations on top of transit would be a fantastic place to deploy all our capital, that's not possible. But as Tim said, there's a pretty thoughtful process around locations of anything we do including affordable where we're looking for those same dynamics.

是的，你看，我們不會坐在這裡告訴你所有東西都是獎盃地點。當然，市中心的中央商務區，地理位置優越，交通便利，是部署我們所有資本的絕佳地點，但這是不可能的。但正如蒂姆所說，我們在選擇任何地點時都會有一個非常深思熟慮的過程，包括價格合理的地點，我們正在尋找相同的動力。

There's a slightly different viewpoint in terms of what's the long term prospects, these are built again at in our basis, significant discounts to replacement costs. So we don't think, a new bill affordable is going to be torn down and a bigger one is going to be built tomorrow. That's not really the dynamic. You do see that in cities, you do see that in urban locations.

對於長期前景，存在著略微不同的觀點，這些觀點再次建立在我們的基礎上，即重置成本的大幅折扣。所以我們不認為，明天一棟新的可負擔得起的建築物就會被拆除，而一座更大的建築物就會被建造起來。事實並非如此。你確實在城市裡看到這種情況，你確實在城市地區看到這種情況。

But most of the underwriting feels very similar. What's the location? What are the demographics? What are the economic drivers? What's the supply demand constraints on the supply and drivers of demand? And I think our team, is very thoughtful about locational attributes. Even if it isn't a downtown or an urban location, there's still a lot of very positive real estate fundamentals that drive our decision making.

但大部分承保感覺非常相似。位置在哪裡？人口統計如何？經濟驅動力有哪些？供需對供應和需求驅動因素有哪些限制？我認為我們的團隊對位置屬性非常重視。即使它不是市中心或城市地區，仍然有許多非常積極的房地產基本面推動著我們的決策。

Got it. Thank you.

知道了。謝謝。

Thank you. Mr Hoffman. We have no further questions.

謝謝。霍夫曼先生。我們沒有其他問題了。

If you should have other questions on today's release, please feel free to contact me directly. Ali would you please give the instructions once again? Thank you.

如果您對今天的發布還有其他疑問，請隨時直接與我聯繫。阿里，你能再給一次指示嗎？謝謝。

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, there will be a replay of this conference today beginning at 2:00 PM Eastern Time. To dial in for the replay is 8774814010 with the confirmation code of 51963.

謝謝。女士們、先生們，今天東部時間下午 2:00 開始將重播本次會議。收聽重播請撥 8774814010，確認碼為 51963。

This will conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day and we thank you for your participation.

今天的會議到此結束。您現在可以斷開您的線路並享受美好的一天，我們感謝您的參與。