Rogers Corp (ROG) 2024 Q3 法說會逐字稿

Good afternoon. My name is Alicia and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Rogers Corporation third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call.

午安.我叫艾莉西亞，今天我將擔任你們的會議操作員。此時此刻，我歡迎大家參加羅傑斯公司 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。

I will now turn the call over to your host, Mr. Steve Haymore, Director of Investor Relations.

現在我將把電話轉給主持人投資者關係總監 Steve Haymore 先生。

Mr. Haymore, you may begin.

海莫爾先生，您可以開始了。

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the Rogers Corporation third-quarter 2024 earnings conference call. The slides for today's call can be found on the Investors section of our website, along with the news release that was issued earlier today.

大家下午好，歡迎參加羅傑斯公司 2024 年第三季財報電話會議。今天電話會議的幻燈片以及今天早些時候發布的新聞稿可以在我們網站的投資者部分找到。

Please turn to slide 2. Before we begin, I'd like to note that statements in this conference call that are not strictly historical are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and should be considered as subject to many uncertainties that exist in Rogers' operations and environment.

請翻到投影片 2。在開始之前，我想指出，本次電話會議中的陳述並非嚴格意義上的歷史陳述，而是1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案》含義內的前瞻性陳述，應被視為受到1995 年《私人證券訴訟改革法案中存在的許多不確定性的影響。

These uncertainties include economic conditions, market demands, and competitive factors. Such factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those in any forward-looking statement made today.

這些不確定性包括經濟狀況、市場需求和競爭因素。這些因素可能導致實際結果與今天所做的任何前瞻性聲明中的結果有重大差異。

Please turn to slide 3. The discussions during this conference call will also reference certain financial measures that were not prepared in accordance with US generally accepted accounting principles. A reconciliation of those non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures can be found in the slide deck for today's call, which are available on our Investor Relations website.

請翻到幻燈片 3。本次電話會議期間的討論也將參考某些未依照美國公認會計原則制定的財務指標。這些非公認會計原則財務指標與最直接可比較的公認會計原則財務指標的調節可以在今天電話會議的幻燈片中找到，這些幻燈片可以在我們的投資者關係網站上找到。

Turning to slide 4. With me today is Colin Gouveia, President and CEO; and Laura Russell, Interim CFO. I will now turn the call over to Colin.

轉到投影片 4。今天與我在一起的是總裁兼執行長 Colin Gouveia；臨時財務長勞拉·拉塞爾 (Laura Russell)。我現在將把電話轉給科林。

Thanks, Steve. Good afternoon to everyone and thank you for joining us today.

謝謝，史蒂夫。大家下午好，感謝您今天加入我們。

Before I discuss the results for the quarter, I want to welcome Laura Russell as our Interim CFO. As we announced last August, Ram Mayampurath, our prior CFO, left the company to pursue another opportunity. Nevertheless, we are fortunate to have someone of Laura's caliber and skill set at Rogers. Laura brings more than 20 years of experience in the semiconductor space with more than a decade in senior financial roles with companies like NXP and Wolfspeed. She is already making a positive impact in her new role at the company.

在討論本季的業績之前，我想歡迎勞拉·拉塞爾 (Laura Russell) 擔任我們的臨時財務長。正如我們去年 8 月宣布的那樣，我們的前財務長 Ram Mayampurath 離開公司去尋找另一個機會。儘管如此，我們很幸運在羅傑斯擁有像勞拉這樣的人才和技能。Laura 在半導體領域擁有 20 多年的經驗，並在 NXP 和 Wolfspeed 等公司擔任高階財務職務十多年。她已經在公司的新角色中產生了積極的影響。

Our CFO succession planning is continuing, and we will provide an update on this process when we have made a final decision.

我們的財務長繼任計畫仍在繼續，當我們做出最終決定時，我們將提供有關此流程的最新資訊。

Now turning to slide 5, I'll highlight the key messages for the quarter. Our results were mixed in the third quarter with earnings exceeding our guidance forecast, while revenues fell below the low end of our estimate.

現在轉到投影片 5，我將重點介紹本季的關鍵資訊。我們第三季的業績好壞參半，獲利超出了我們的指導預測，而收入則低於我們預期的下限。

The improved earnings were a result of a 35.2% gross margin, which surpassed the high end of our expectations, and lower operating expenses, which we continue to carefully control. Revenues for Q3 were lower than expected due to softer order patterns in the EV/HEV segment and a lower seasonal peak in portable electronics.

獲利的改善得益於 35.2% 的毛利率（超出了我們預期的上限）以及營運費用的降低（我們繼續謹慎控制營運費用）。由於電動車/混合動力車領域的訂單模式疲軟以及便攜式電子產品的季節性高峰較低，第三季的收入低於預期。

Overall, we are not yet seeing consistent indications of improved demand, particularly in our two largest markets, general industrial and EV/HEV. Ongoing contraction in global manufacturing activity continues to weigh on industrial. Global automotive production has been slowing in recent months, and while EV/HEV is growing, it is behind last year's pace.

總體而言，我們尚未看到需求改善的一致跡象，特別是在我們兩個最大的市場，即一般工業和電動車/混合動力車。全球製造業活動持續收縮持續給工業帶來壓力。近幾個月來，全球汽車產量一直在放緩，儘管電動車/混合動力汽車正在成長，但仍落後於去年的成長速度。

However, despite the current headwinds, we do continue to see good growth potential in these and other market segments going forward. As such, we continue to make measured investments in capacity and capabilities to position Rogers for long-term growth.

然而，儘管目前存在阻力，我們仍然看到這些和其他細分市場未來的良好成長潛力。因此，我們繼續對產能和能力進行有節制的投資，以使羅傑斯實現長期成長。

One capacity highlight is the recent ribbon-cutting ceremony for our new curamik Power substrate factory in China. I'll provide more details on this event later.

產能亮點之一是我們位於中國的新 curamik 功率基板工廠最近舉行的剪綵儀式。稍後我將提供有關此活動的更多詳細資訊。

Turning to slide 6. I'll review our third-quarter results. Revenues of $210 million declined 2% from the prior quarter as lower EV/HEV and ADAS sales more than offset higher portable electronics, industrial, and aerospace and defense growth.

轉到投影片 6。我將回顧我們的第三季業績。由於電動車/混合動力車和 ADAS 銷售額的下降抵消了便攜式電子、工業、航空航太和國防領域較高的成長，營收為 2.1 億美元，較上一季下降 2%。

Highlighting our key markets, I'll begin with EV/HEV. In AES, we've not yet seen meaningful demand improvement from our curamik Power module customers. In the EMS business, after two consecutive quarters of record sales, we saw softness in Q3 due to customer inventory management.

我將從電動車/混合動力車開始重點介紹我們的主要市場。在 AES 中，我們尚未看到 curamik 電源模組客戶的需求有有意義的改善。在 EMS 業務中，在連續兩個季度創下銷售記錄後，由於客戶庫存管理，我們在第三季度看到了疲軟。

Portable electronics sales saw a strong increase from Q2 due to normal seasonal demand patterns. However, sales were below our outlook as build rates at one of our leading OEM customers were not as strong as anticipated.

由於正常的季節性需求模式，便攜式電子產品銷售較第二季強勁成長。然而，由於我們領先的 OEM 客戶之一的建造率不如預期，銷售額低於我們的預期。

Aerospace and defense registered good growth in Q3 led by AES. Although quarterly sales do fluctuate on program timing, we expect A&D sales to grow in the mid- to high single-digit rate for 2024.

在 AES 的帶動下，航空航太和國防在第三季取得了良好的成長。儘管季度銷售額確實會因計畫時間而波動，但我們預計 2024 年 A&D 銷售額將以中高個位數成長率成長。

RFS ADAS sales declined in the quarter, reflecting both softer auto production and increased competition at different points in the value chain. In response to these competitive dynamics, we are continuing to drive product innovation, improving our cost structure, and diversifying our customer base, particularly with emerging Asian players. Our innovation includes new copper-clad laminate technology that will be launched in Q4 and development of next-generation advanced radar solutions beyond laminates.

RFS ADAS 銷售額在本季有所下降，反映出汽車生產疲軟以及價值鏈不同環節的競爭加劇。為了因應這些競爭動態，我們將繼續推動產品創新，改善成本結構，並使我們的客戶群多樣化，特別是新興的亞洲企業。我們的創新包括將於第四季度推出的新型覆銅層壓板技術以及開發層壓板之外的下一代先進雷達解決方案。

EMS saw a slight increase in industrial sales in Q3, led by the semiconductor segment. As I'll discuss more in a moment, overall industrial sales are still below the prior year due to the ongoing downturn in global manufacturing activity.

EMS 在第三季的工業銷售額在半導體領域的帶動下略有成長。正如我稍後將詳細討論的那樣，由於全球製造業活動持續低迷，整體工業銷售額仍低於去年。

Wireless infrastructure sales were again strong in Q3 and improved slightly from Q2. As mentioned last quarter, this strength is driven by a specific project in India, which concluded in the third quarter. We are closely engaged with this customer on the next phase of this wireless build-out, which is currently in the design end stage.

第三季無線基礎設施銷售再次強勁，較第二季略有改善。正如上季度所提到的，這種優勢是由印度的一個特定項目推動的，該項目於第三季結束。我們與該客戶就無線擴建的下一階段密切合作，目前正處於設計最後階段。

There were clear positives in our Q3 results with improved operating margins, higher earnings, and good free cash flow generation. At the same time, we are disappointed with the Q3 sales results and the top-line Q4 outlook. The lower sales reflect persistent macro challenges and some customer-specific issues. We are intently focused on driving improvement in our top line. And in the next two slides, I'll expand on the improvement actions underway.

我們第三季的業績有明顯的正面因素，包括營業利潤率提高、收益增加和自由現金流產生良好。同時，我們對第三季的銷售業績和第四季的營收前景感到失望。銷售額下降反映了持續存在的宏觀挑戰和一些客戶特定問題。我們專注於推動營收的改善。在接下來的兩張投影片中，我將詳細介紹正在進行的改進行動。

Starting on slide 7. I'll cover the industrial end market, where sales are roughly $10 million to $15 million lower per quarter versus the first half of 2023. The decrease is primarily due to the broader macro environment, which has impacted Rogers.

從投影片 7 開始。我將介紹工業終端市場，每季的銷售額將比 2023 年上半年減少約 1,000 萬至 1,500 萬美元。這一下降主要是由於更廣泛的宏觀環境對羅傑斯產生了影響。

In our AES business, we are experiencing lower demand in industrial markets for our power substrates due to lower levels of capital investment in factory automation and other equipment used in automotive and semiconductor manufacturing.

在我們的 AES 業務中，由於工廠自動化以及汽車和半導體製造中使用的其他設備的資本投資水準較低，我們的電源基板的工業市場需求較低。

The EMS industrial market is extremely diversified with roughly 15 submarkets. Demand in these markets correlates to global manufacturing activity levels, which in the US and the Eurozone have contracted for most of the last two years.

EMS 工業市場極為多元化，約有 15 個子市場。這些市場的需求與全球製造業活動水準相關，美國和歐元區的製造業活動水準在過去兩年的大部分時間裡都在萎縮。

Despite the downturn, we are seeing growth opportunities in certain segments such as medical devices, data centers, and battery energy storage systems or BESS. The opportunity in BESS spans both business units.

儘管經濟低迷，我們仍然看到醫療設備、資料中心和電池儲能係統或 BESS 等某些領域的成長機會。BESS 的機會涵蓋兩個業務部門。

In AES, this includes curamik Power substrates and ROLINX busbars to enable efficient conversion and distribution of power. In EMS, our urethane and silicone materials offer solutions to improve battery efficiency and life. In medical, our EMS materials seal and protect medical devices such as CPAP and dialysis machines and provide solutions to improve vaccine manufacturing and transport.

在 AES 中，這包括 curamik Power 基板和 ROLINX 母線，以實現高效的電力轉換和分配。在 EMS 中，我們的聚氨酯和有機矽材料提供了提高電池效率和壽命的解決方案。在醫療領域，我們的 EMS 材料可密封和保護 CPAP 和透析機等醫療設備，並提供改善疫苗生產和運輸的解決方案。

Semiconductors is another of the faster-growing opportunities in industrial. We have seen improved year-over-year sales in 2024, but demand has yet to return to 2022 levels. Growth in these markets won't come immediately, but we are seeing traction with the recent design win in data centers where our silicone adhesive films will be used in a server power supply system.

半導體是工業領域另一個成長較快的機會。我們看到 2024 年銷售額較去年同期有所改善，但需求尚未恢復到 2022 年水準。這些市場的成長不會立即出現，但我們看到了最近在資料中心的設計勝利所帶來的吸引力，我們的有機矽黏合膜將用於伺服器電源系統。

Our AES business also has opportunities targeted to AI data centers. These projects are still in the early stages but are focused on leveraging our capabilities in thermal management and signal integrity.

我們的 AES 業務也有針對人工智慧資料中心的機會。這些項目仍處於早期階段，但重點是利用我們在熱管理和訊號完整性方面的能力。

Turning to slide 8. I'll provide an update on the EV/HEV market, where our 2024 sales have been approximately $5 million to $15 million lower per quarter compared to the first half of 2023. As we have discussed on prior calls, the main driver is the inventory correction curamik customers have been managing since late Q1 of this year. The decline in AES sales has more than offset a greater than 50% growth in EMS EV/HEV sales year to date.

轉到投影片 8。我將提供有關 EV/HEV 市場的最新信息，與 2023 年上半年相比，我們 2024 年的銷售額每季度減少約 500 萬至 1500 萬美元。正如我們在之前的電話中討論的那樣，主要驅動力是 curamik 客戶自今年第一季末以來一直在管理的庫存修正。AES 銷售量的下降抵消了 EMS EV/HEV 銷售今年迄今超過 50% 的成長。

In anticipation of a recovery in the power substrate market and the compelling future growth opportunities in EV/HEV, we are making measured capacity investments in two new manufacturing facilities in China. These investments include the new curamik Power substrate facility and a new BISCO silicone production line.

預計功率基板市場的復甦以及電動車/混合動力車未來引人注目的成長機會，我們正在中國對兩個新的製造工廠進行可衡量的產能投資。這些投資包括新的 curamik Power 基材工廠和新的 BISCO 有機矽生產線。

We also continue to work aggressively to secure new design wins. As we've highlighted in prior quarters, we have secured several significant wins in our AES business this year with both Western and Asian power module customers and EV OEMs.

我們也繼續積極努力，以確保贏得新的設計。正如我們在前幾個季度所強調的那樣，今年我們在 AES 業務中與西方和亞洲電源模組客戶以及電動車原始設備製造商取得了幾項重大勝利。

In Q3, we were awarded another design win for our AMB power substrate technology that will be used in an 800-volt silicon carbide inverter for a leading Asian OEM with deliveries beginning in Q1 of 2025. In our EMS business, we continue to have a healthy opportunity funnel and have also secured important design wins this year with several key OEMs that serve the US, Asian, and European markets.

在第三季度，我們的 AMB 功率基板技術獲得了另一項設計勝利，該技術將用於亞洲領先 OEM 的 800 伏特碳化矽逆變器，並於 2025 年第一季開始交付。在我們的 EMS 業務中，我們繼續擁有健康的機會管道，並且今年還贏得了服務於美國、亞洲和歐洲市場的幾家主要 OEM 的重要設計勝利。

Turning to slide 9. I'll expand on the compelling long-term opportunity we see with curamik and the EV/HEV market. Two weeks ago, I was in Suzhou, China for the ribbon-cutting ceremony of our new curamik Power substrate factory. We welcomed local government officials and dozens of customers representing both Western and Chinese-headquartered companies.

轉到投影片 9。我將詳細介紹我們在 curamik 和電動車/混合動力車市場中看到的令人信服的長期機會。兩週前，我在中國蘇州參加了我們新的 curamik 電源基板工廠的剪綵儀式。我們歡迎當地政府官員和代表西方和中國公司的數十名客戶。

This new factory will complement our existing manufacturing facility in Germany, and importantly, will support our regional capacity strategy, enabling us to better support our customers who are expanding in China. This new factory will manufacture AMB substrates.

這家新工廠將補充我們在德國現有的製造工廠，更重要的是，它將支持我們的區域產能策略，使我們能夠更好地支持在中國擴張的客戶。這家新工廠將生產 AMB 基板。

Third-party market research expects that the market for this latest substrate technology will grow at a 20% CAGR over the next several years, driven by the increasing adoption of silicon carbide power modules in the EV/HEV, industrial and renewable energy markets. We expect to begin shipping the first customer samples from our new factory in Q4 with mass production scheduled in late Q2 of 2025.

第三方市場研究預計，在電動車/混合動力車、工業和再生能源市場中越來越多地採用碳化矽功率模組的推動下，這種最新基板技術的市場在未來幾年將以20% 的複合年增長率成長。我們預計將於第四季度開始從我們的新工廠發貨第一批客戶樣品，並計劃於 2025 年第二季末進行批量生產。

Now in closing, I'll recap today's key messages. First, we had mixed Q3 results with good earnings growth and a softer top line, which was below our expectations. This softer ordering is carrying through into our lower Q4 guidance, and we are working aggressively to drive improvement.

最後，我將回顧今天的關鍵訊息。首先，我們第三季的業績好壞參半，獲利成長良好，但營收較疲軟，低於我們的預期。這種較軟的訂單正在延續到我們較低的第四季指引中，我們正在積極努力推動改善。

We are intently focused on securing design-in wins, pursuing regional manufacturing strategies and prioritizing higher growth segments to drive improvement in the coming quarters. We expect that these actions in combination with demand recovery in power modules, further ramping from our EV/HEV battery customers and improvement in global manufacturing activity will provide the opportunity for meaningful growth in 2025.

我們專注於確保設計勝利、推行區域製造策略並優先考慮更高成長的細分市場，以推動未來幾季的改進。我們預計，這些行動與電源模組需求復甦、電動車/混合動力汽車電池客戶的進一步成長以及全球製造活動的改善相結合，將為 2025 年實現有意義的成長提供機會。

As we focus on the top-line growth, we will, as always, continue to manage costs and CapEx investments as we prioritize maximizing profitability and cash flow.

當我們專注於營收成長時，我們將一如既往地繼續管理成本和資本支出投資，同時優先考慮最大化獲利能力和現金流。

Now I'll turn it over to Laura to discuss our Q3 financial performance and our Q4 outlook.

現在我將把它交給勞拉討論我們第三季的財務表現和第四季的前景。

Thank you, Colin. Let me first say that I'm excited about the opportunity to serve in the Interim CFO capacity, and I look forward to the opportunity of working with Colin and the rest of the executive team to drive execution on our key strategic initiatives.

謝謝你，科林。首先我要說的是，我很高興有機會擔任臨時財務官，我期待有機會與 Colin 和其他執行團隊成員合作，推動我們關鍵策略計畫的執行。

I'll begin on slide 10 with the highlights of our results for Q3. As Colin shared, our performance in the third quarter was mixed. Our top line sales of $210 million were below our outlook.

我將從幻燈片 10 開始重點介紹第三季的結果。正如科林所說，我們第三季的表現好壞參半。我們的銷售額為 2.1 億美元，低於我們的預期。

However, gross margin of 35.2% and adjusted EPS of $0.98 both exceeded guidance expectations. The improved margins and our working capital management enabled us to generate $25 million in free cash flow during the quarter.

然而，35.2% 的毛利率和 0.98 美元的調整後每股盈餘均超出指導預期。利潤率的提高和營運資金管理使我們能夠在本季產生 2500 萬美元的自由現金流。

On slide 11, I'll discuss our third quarter sales in greater detail. Net sales of $210 million declined by 2% from the prior quarter on approximately $4 million of lower volume, which was slightly offset by favorable foreign currency fluctuations of approximately $300,000. On a reportable segment basis, AES revenue decreased 3% versus the prior quarter to $112 million.

在投影片 11 上，我將更詳細地討論我們第三季的銷售情況。淨銷售額為 2.1 億美元，比上一季下降 2%，銷量減少約 400 萬美元，但被有利的外匯波動約 30 萬美元略微抵消。以可報告部門計算，AES 營收較上一季下降 3%，至 1.12 億美元。

Lower EV/HEV, ADAS, and industrial sales were partially offset by higher A&D and wireless infrastructure sales.

EV/HEV、ADAS 和工業銷售額的下降被 A&D 和無線基礎設施銷售額的成長部分抵消。

Of the major product lines in AES, curamik sales have declined most significantly versus the prior year as a result of customer inventory correction and a lack of demand recovery that Colin discussed. Total curamik sales are down more than 35% compared to the first 9 months of 2023. We do expect this market to recover in the coming quarters. And with our new facility in China, we will be well positioned to grow with both Western and Chinese power module customers.

在 AES 的主要產品線中，由於客戶庫存調整和 Colin 討論的需求復甦缺乏，與前一年相比，curamik 的銷售下降最為顯著。與 2023 年前 9 個月相比，curamik 總銷量下降了 35% 以上。我們確實預計該市場將在未來幾季復甦。憑藉我們在中國的新工廠，我們將能夠與西方和中國的功率模組客戶一起成長。

EMS revenue decreased by less than 1% to approximately $94 million. This decrease resulted from mainly lower EV/HEV sales. This decline was in part offset by seasonally higher portable electronic sales and improved industrial sales.

EMS 收入下降不到 1%，至約 9,400 萬美元。這一下降主要是由於電動車/混合動力汽車銷量下降所致。這一下降被季節性增長的便攜式電子產品銷售和工業銷售的改善所部分抵消。

Turning to slide 12. Q3 gross margin was 35.2%, an increase of 110 basis points from the second quarter. The sequential improvement in gross margin was primarily due to favorable product mix, which more than offset the lower volume and under-absorbed costs.

轉到投影片 12。第三季毛利率為35.2%，較第二季成長110個基點。毛利率的環比改善主要歸功於有利的產品組合，足以抵消銷售下降和成本吸收不足的影響。

We continue to drive operational excellence initiatives such as yield and throughput improvements, procurement savings and manufacturing footprint optimization. The progress we've already made in these areas has been a key enabler of improved margins over the preceding quarters.

我們繼續推動卓越營運計劃，例如提高產量和吞吐量、節省採購和優化製造足跡。我們在這些領域已經取得的進展是前幾季利潤率提高的關鍵推動因素。

Similar to Q2, we still carry a small amount of excess cost in the third quarter, primarily in our curamik operation to ensure that we have the ability to respond to power substrate demand when it returns.

與第二季類似，我們在第三季仍然有少量超額成本，主要是在我們的 curamik 業務中，以確保我們有能力在電源基板需求恢復時對其做出回應。

Adjusted net income increased to $18 million in the third quarter from $13 million in Q2. Q3 adjusted earnings per share was $0.98 compared to $0.69 in the prior quarter. The higher Q3 adjusted net income resulted mainly from the improved gross margin and lower adjusted operating expenses.

第三季調整後淨利從第二季的 1,300 萬美元增至 1,800 萬美元。第三季調整後每股收益為 0.98 美元，上一季為 0.69 美元。第三季調整後淨利的增加主要是由於毛利率的提高和調整後的營運費用的降低。

These items were partially offset by an increase in other expense. The decrease in OpEx versus the second quarter was due to lower variable compensation costs and continued efforts to reduce professional services.

這些項目被其他費用的增加部分抵消。營運支出較第二季下降是由於可變薪酬成本降低以及持續努力減少專業服務。

Continuing on slide 13. Cash on September 30 was approximately $146 million, an increase of nearly $27 million from the end of the prior quarter. As a result of improved gross margin, lower operating expenses and management of working capital, we have generated $93 million of operating cash flow so far this year with $42 million of this in Q3.

繼續幻燈片 13。截至 9 月 30 日，現金約 1.46 億美元，較上季末增加近 2,700 萬美元。由於毛利率的提高、營運費用的降低和營運資金的管理，我們今年迄今已產生 9,300 萬美元的營運現金流，其中第三季為 4,200 萬美元。

Capital expenditures were $41 million year to date and $17 million in the third quarter. We expect full year CapEx to be in the range of $50 million to $60 million, $5 million below our previous range.

年初至今資本支出為 4,100 萬美元，第三季資本支出為 1,700 萬美元。我們預計全年資本支出將在 5,000 萬至 6,000 萬美元之間，比我們之前的範圍低 500 萬美元。

As we move forward through the year, we will continue to prioritize actions to maximize cash generation. With no debt and an increase in cash position, we have increased agility to allocate capital to our allocation priorities, consistent to our stated strategy of funding organic growth, pursuing synergistic M&A, and returning capital to shareholders in the form of opportunistic share repurchases. We will continue to evaluate the best use of this capital based on the needs of the business and current circumstances.

在今年的展望中，我們將繼續優先採取行動，以最大限度地產生現金。由於沒有債務，而且現金狀況有所增加，我們提高了將資本分配到分配優先事項的靈活性，這符合我們為有機增長提供資金、追求協同併購以及以機會性股票回購的形式向股東返還資本的既定戰略。我們將繼續根據業務需求和當前情況評估這筆資金的最佳利用方式。

Next, on slide 14. I will discuss our guidance for the fourth quarter. Net sales are expected to range between $185 million and $200 million. The midpoint of this range is a decrease of about 8% from Q3 sales. The main drivers of the sequential decline are lower wireless infrastructure demand as shipments to a significant project in India have concluded, the typical seasonal decline in portable electronics sales, and deferred ordering as customers manage year-end inventory levels.

接下來，在投影片 14 上。我將討論我們對第四季的指導。淨銷售額預計在 1.85 億美元至 2 億美元之間。該範圍的中點較第三季銷售額下降約 8%。連續下降的主要驅動因素是印度一個重要項目的發貨結束導致無線基礎設施需求下降、便攜式電子產品銷售典型的季節性下降以及客戶管理年底庫存水平而推遲訂購。

At the midpoint of our guidance, EV/HEV sales are expected to increase slightly in Q4. General industrial sales are expected to be modestly lower. We are guiding gross margin to be in the range of 31.5% to 33% for Q4 with a decrease as a result of the lower volume and also lower product mix.

在我們指導的中點，電動車/混合動力車銷量預計第四季將略有成長。一般工業銷售預計將小幅下降。我們預計第四季的毛利率將在 31.5% 至 33% 之間，但由於銷量下降和產品組合減少，毛利率有所下降。

Product mix is typically strongest in Q3 related to portable electronics sales. This guidance range also incorporates some headwind from the start of production of our new silicone manufacturing line, which will continue until we reach a more normalized utilization rate.

與便攜式電子產品銷售相關的產品組合通常在第三季最為強勁。此指導範圍也包含了我們新有機矽生產線生產開始時的一些不利因素，這些不利因素將持續到我們達到更正常化的利用率。

Fourth quarter adjusted operating expenses are projected to increase $2 million versus Q3, primarily related to incrementally higher start-up costs. EPS is expected to range from a loss of $0.15 to $0.15 of earnings. The adjusted EPS range is $0.30 to $0.60 of earnings.

第四季調整後的營運費用預計將比第三季增加 200 萬美元，主要與啟動成本的增加有關。EPS 預計收益損失 0.15 美元至 0.15 美元。調整後的 EPS 範圍為收益 0.30 美元至 0.60 美元。

Our Q4 EPS range includes $0.32 of restructuring-related expenses with most of this associated to the wind down of our AES operations in Belgium. Lastly, we project our full year tax rate to be approximately 27%.

我們第四季的每股盈餘範圍包括 0.32 美元的重組相關費用，其中大部分與我們在比利時的 AES 業務的縮減有關。最後，我們預計全年稅率約為 27%。

With that, I will now turn the call back over to the operator for questions.

現在，我將把電話轉回給接線員詢問問題。

(Operator Instructions) Daniel Moore, CJS Securities.

（操作員指示）Daniel Moore，CJS 證券。

Good afternoon, Colin. Good afternoon, Laura. Thank you for taking the questions. I guess starting with the guide, it sounds like it's fair to say the sequential decline in revenue implied in the Q4 guide is primarily due to that lower wireless with that project running off and portable electronics. Or are there other areas of incremental weakness that you're seeing?

下午好，科林。下午好，勞拉。感謝您提出問題。我想從該指南開始，聽起來可以公平地說，第四季度指南中暗示的收入連續下降主要是由於該項目運行和便攜式電子產品的無線性能較低。或者您還發現其他方面的弱點？

Hey, Dan. Colin. I'll start with that. Yes, you're right. The number one reason would be that wireless program ending in Q3. And I would also say that normally, the fourth quarter is typically our lowest quarter in the year for what you mentioned about portable electronics, where Q3 is our highest quarter and then things decrease a bit as we get towards the end of the year. We also don't really see a recovery in curamik in the power module space.

嘿，丹。科林.我將從那開始。是的，你說得對。第一個原因是無線計劃在第三季結束。我還想說，通常情況下，第四季度通常是您提到的便攜式電子產品一年中最低的季度，其中第三季度是我們最高的季度，然後隨著接近年底，情況會有所下降。我們也沒有真正看到 curamik 在電源模組領域的復甦。

We're paying close attention to what our customers are saying, and they've not signaled an improvement coming at this moment. So that's also included in Q4. And then finally, we anticipate customers in general destocking for the end of the year as they try to hit inventory targets and deliver cash. So those would be the main factors impacting Q4.

我們正在密切關注客戶的意見，但他們目前尚未表示會有所改善。所以這也包含在第四季。最後，我們預計客戶將在年底普遍減少庫存，因為他們試圖達到庫存目標並交付現金。所以這些都會是影響第四季的主要因素。

That's helpful. And then looking beyond into first half of next year, are there still pockets of your business where inventory management is likely to remain a headwind? Or do you -- once we get through the end of this year, revenue should be more 1 for 1, if not seeing maybe some potential restocking at some point?

這很有幫助。然後展望明年上半年，您的業務中是否仍有庫存管理可能仍然是一個阻力？或者你認為－一旦我們度過了今年年底，如果沒有在某個時候看到潛在的補貨，收入應該會更多1比1？

Yeah. What I would say on that is -- and I'll start, is that even though we're not guiding ahead to next year, we do see potential for some meaningful improvement based on a couple of key assumptions. The first is that would be the return of the growth in curamik substrate market. It's unclear when this exactly will happen based on what I said earlier about the customers not coming forward, but we think it's quite possible it will happen next year.

是的。我想說的是——我首先要說的是，儘管我們不會為明年提供指導，但我們確實看到了基於幾個關鍵假設的一些有意義的改進的潛力。首先是 curamik 基材市場成長的報酬。根據我之前所說的有關客戶不挺身而出的情況，目前還不清楚這種情況何時會發生，但我們認為很有可能會在明年發生。

We also have the new curamik factory in China to produce AMB technology. And that technology goes directly into SiC power modules, and we've got good design-in wins with both Western and local Chinese OEMs for power modules. And we see the CAGR for that business going in at about 20%. So we think that will also make an impact as we get into 2025.

我們也在中國擁有新的 curamik 工廠來生產 AMB 技術。該技術直接應用於 SiC 電源模組，我們在電源模組領域與西方和中國本土 OEM 廠商都取得了良好的設計勝利。我們預計該業務的複合年增長率約為 20%。因此，我們認為，進入 2025 年，這也會產生影響。

Also, we see the work we have with EMS with EV battery producers continuing to ramp. That has been a good year for -- that has been very good for us this year. It's far ahead of last year's pace, and we'll see that continuing to ramp.

此外，我們也看到我們與 EMS 與電動車電池生產商的合作持續推進。這是美好的一年——今年對我們來說非常好。它遠遠領先去年的速度，而且我們將看到這一速度繼續加快。

And then the industrial demand could return. Right now, the macro is quite tough. The monetary policy and the election uncertainty. But by 2025, that election uncertainty will be past. Everyone will know what's happening. So we anticipate a bit of an uptick in industrial demand.

然後工業需求可能會恢復。目前，宏觀形勢相當嚴峻。貨幣政策和選舉的不確定性。但到 2025 年，選舉的不確定性將成為過去。每個人都會知道發生了什麼事。因此，我們預計工業需求將會上升。

I'd just say, overall, we're focused on growing our business, growing the top line. We think we're well positioned for the medium and long term with the work we're doing in terms of self-help, capital expansion, and skilling up the team. And we would be ready when some of these things happen so we can begin growing.

我只想說，總的來說，我們專注於發展我們的業務，增加收入。我們認為，透過我們在自助、資本擴張和團隊技能提升方面所做的工作，我們在中長期內處於有利地位。當其中一些事情發生時，我們會做好準備，這樣我們就可以開始成長。

I'll sneak one more in and jump back in queue. But on the margin side, if you look -- obviously don't have segments this quarter yet. But if you look on the performance year to date, AES obviously remains low, but operating margins in EMS have dropped the most from 20% range last year into the single digits this year despite relatively modest revenue declines.

我會再偷偷溜進去一張，然後插回隊列。但在利潤方面，如果你看一下——顯然本季還沒有細分市場。但如果你看看今年迄今為止的表現，AES 顯然仍然很低，但 EMS 的營業利潤率已從去年的 20% 降到了今年的個位數，儘管收入下降幅度相對較小。

And just trying to get a sense what's going on there. Was it mix, pricing pressure, incremental investments, all the above? What are the key drivers? And what gets us back to mid-teens margins or higher in that business? Thanks, again, for the color.

只是想了解那裡發生了什麼事。是混合因素、定價壓力、增量投資還是以上所有原因？關鍵驅動因素是什麼？是什麼讓我們的利潤率回到十幾歲左右或更高？再次感謝您的顏色。

Sure, Dan. It's Laura here. So what I would say is yes, your observations are correct. We are seeing some suppression on a year-on-year basis within EMS. Some of that, frankly, is a little bit on an allocation strategy.

當然，丹。這是勞拉。所以我想說的是，是的，你的觀察是正確的。我們發現 EMS 內部同比出現了一些抑制。坦白說，其中一些與分配策略有關。

But all of our businesses are softening a little bit in terms of our utilization level. So we do have some headwinds there, which, as you've seen with the margins we're posting, we're managing to control what we can and execute our margin expansion opportunities by leveraging operations excellence and procurement savings. So we're certainly doing what we can there.

但我們所有業務的利用率都在略有下降。因此，我們確實遇到了一些阻力，正如您在我們發布的利潤率中看到的那樣，我們正在設法控制我們所能控制的範圍，並通過利用卓越運營和採購節省來執行我們的利潤率擴張機會。所以我們肯定會盡我們所能。

But really, we will see some -- or the benefit, the accretion is going to be realized when we start to see improved utilization on our top-line recovery.

但實際上，當我們開始看到我們的營收恢復利用率有所提高時，我們就會看到一些——或者說好處，成長將會實現。

And Dan, I might just add there. It's certainly fresh off the press here, but in the appendix to the slides, we do have the adjusted operating margin by segment. And you can see for the third quarter, EMS was 17 -- just over 17%. So there's some information you can reference there.

丹，我可以補充一下。這當然是新鮮事，但在投影片的附錄中，我們確實按部門調整了營業利潤率。您可以看到第三季的 EMS 為 17——略高於 17%。所以那裡有一些資訊你可以參考。

That's very helpful. Very good. I'll follow up -- I'll circle back for any follow ups. Thank you.

這非常有幫助。非常好。我會跟進——我會回訪以進行任何跟進。謝謝。

Thanks, Dan.

謝謝，丹。

Thank you.

謝謝。

Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

克雷格·艾利斯，B.萊利證券。

Yeah. Thanks for taking the question. And Colin, I appreciate the additional detail on slide 7 and 8 on the industrial business and EV and HEV. And I wanted to start my questions on the former. So can you just help us understand? As we think about your comments with the industrial business, are you just on slide 7 really characterizing the market?

是的。感謝您提出問題。Colin，我很欣賞幻燈片 7 和 8 中有關工業業務以及電動車和混合動力車的更多細節。我想從前者開始提問。那你能幫我們理解一下嗎？當我們考慮您對工業業務的評論時，您在投影片 7 上是否真正描述了市場的特徵？

Or are you trying to convey a message that there's a refocusing and a reprioritization of efforts, whether it's as you engage with customers as you're looking at the types of design wins you'd be shooting for?

或者你是否試圖傳達這樣一個訊息：無論是在與客戶互動時，還是在考慮你想要爭取的設計勝利類型時，都需要重新調整工作重點和優先順序？

And as it relates to the specific opportunities that you mentioned with battery energy storage systems, medical, semi, and data center, how should we think about the potential for those specific opportunities to make material contributions to revenues next year?

由於它涉及您提到的電池儲能係統、醫療、半成品和資料中心的具體機會，我們應該如何考慮這些具體機會對明年收入做出實質貢獻的潛力？

Sure. And so I'll start by saying that general industrial, as we highlighted in relation to Rogers, is a catch-all for a lot of end markets that are less than 2% or 3% of our total sales. But within that bucket, there are some really interesting end markets that we think we can grow and expand. And actually, the intent is to move them out of general industrial. A good example is portable electronics, where years ago, it was a small percentage of sales.

當然。因此，我首先要說的是，正如我們在羅傑斯方面所強調的那樣，一般工業是許多終端市場的統稱，這些市場占我們總銷售額的比例不到 2% 或 3%。但在這個範圍內，我們認為我們可以發展和擴大一些非常有趣的終端市場。實際上，其目的是將它們從一般工業中移除。一個很好的例子是便攜式電子產品，幾年前，它只佔銷售額的一小部分。

But then we really began to develop technology that worked well in the hand device market and other areas such as smart speakers and tablets. And now that's a big part of our business.

但後來我們真正開始開發在手持設備市場以及智慧揚聲器和平板電腦等其他領域表現良好的技術。現在這是我們業務的重要組成部分。

So we have been working really hard on design-in wins, pushing the teams. And they're very aggressive in going out and trying to fight against the headwinds of the slow macro. And what we've really come to grips with over the past six months is that we really like all the products and technology we have in the company that can go into data centers.

因此，我們一直在努力爭取設計勝利，推動團隊前進。他們非常積極地走出去，試圖對抗緩慢的宏觀經濟所帶來的阻力。在過去的六個月裡，我們真正意識到的是，我們真的很喜歡公司擁有的所有可以進入資料中心的產品和技術。

And we'll talk more about this in the future, but we have products from all of our business units that can work in there. It's gasketing and sealing and vibration dampening from EMS. It's high-speed digital from, and it's cooling from the curamik business. So we feel like we really have some growth trajectory there.

我們將來會更多地討論這個問題，但我們所有業務部門的產品都可以在那裡工作。它採用 EMS 的墊片、密封和減振技術。它是高速數位化的，也是來自 curamik 業務的冷卻的。所以我們覺得我們確實有一些成長軌跡。

Same for battery energy storage systems. We've been able to leverage our technology and our expertise that we brought into the EV/HEV battery space. And, of course, it translates into the BESS space. So we figured -- we feel that's worth sharing because we also have high expectations for growth there.

電池儲能係統也是如此。我們已經能夠利用我們引入電動車/混合動力汽車電池領域的技術和專業知識。當然，它也轉化為 BESS 空間。所以我們認為——我們覺得這是值得分享的，因為我們對那裡的成長也抱有很高的期望。

And finally, medical, we have had some good success in medical, but now we've really been able to pick up some additional design wins that will begin next year.

最後，在醫療方面，我們在醫療方面取得了一些良好的成功，但現在我們確實能夠獲得一些將於明年開始的額外設計勝利。

And we feel like that's also worth mentioning. I would say that industrial is a big piece of our business. But within it, there are some exciting things that we wanted to tease out and share, and that is the message on today's call.

我們覺得這也值得一提。我想說，工業是我們業務的重要組成部分。但其中有一些令人興奮的事情我們想梳理並分享，這就是今天電話會議的訊息。

That's helpful. Thanks, Colin. The next question may be one that's both for you and Laura regarding the power substrate ramp through 2025 in China. Can you just help us understand the magnitude of contribution that could make as we go from initial sample shipments to customers exiting this year to what I think the deck said was full production exiting 2Q of next year? How should we be thinking about the revenue impact of that ramp in the business?

這很有幫助。謝謝，科林。下一個問題可能是您和勞拉共同關心的問題，涉及 2025 年中國電力基板的成長。您能否幫助我們了解從最初的樣品發貨到今年退出的客戶，再到我認為甲板上所說的明年第二季度全面生產的過程中，可以做出多大的貢獻？我們應該如何考慮業務成長對收入的影響？

So I can start on that. You -- first, I'll comment that we're very excited about that facility. And it's just a spectacular build. I was thrilled to see it up and running when I was in China a few weeks ago, and we had quite an interesting opening ceremony with a lot of folks in attendance from both the local government and customers.

所以我可以從那裡開始。首先，我要說的是，我們對該設施感到非常興奮。這是一個壯觀的建築。幾週前我在中國時，我很高興看到它的啟動和運行，我們舉辦了一個非常有趣的開幕儀式，有很多來自當地政府和客戶的人士參加。

In terms of when we should be at full run rates, yes, that will probably be mid-2025. And right now, it's running and we're prototyping and qualifying this technology with customers.

至於我們什麼時候應該達到滿載運行，是的，那可能是 2025 年中期。現在，它正在運行，我們正在與客戶一起製作原型並驗證這項技術。

We haven't, at this moment, talked about the size in revenues that would be coming out of that factory. We haven't really shared even our total sales for curamik. But I can say that roughly half of our business is in Western Europe and in Eastern Europe, and the other half is in China.

目前我們還沒有談論該工廠的收入規模。我們甚至還沒有真正分享我們的 curamik 總銷售額。但我可以說，我們的業務大約一半在西歐和東歐，另一半在中國。

And this will allow us, I think, to link in more closely with our customers who produce in China with reduced supply chain, timing, quicker response time and local production. So I think it will make a big difference in terms of us being able to capture the growth that we have planned.

我認為，這將使我們能夠與在中國生產的客戶建立更緊密的聯繫，減少供應鏈、時間表、更快的回應時間和本地生產。因此，我認為這對於我們能否實現計劃中的成長將產生重大影響。

Got it. And if I could just sneak in one more.

知道了。如果我能再偷偷溜進去一次就好了。

Of course.

當然。

There was the very significant change in operating expense quarter on quarter, and it looks like some of it might have been an accrual reversal. So is that the case? Or -- and therefore, would operating expense absent that accrual reversal increase sequentially in 4Q? Or did OpEx just set to a structurally lower level in 3Q that will perpetuate?

營運費用逐季發生了非常顯著的變化，看起來其中一些可能是應計費用的逆轉。那麼是這樣的嗎？或者 - 因此，如果沒有應計逆轉，營運費用會在第四季度連續增加嗎？或者營運支出是否只是在第三季設定為結構性較低水準並將持續下去？

So let me take that. So you're correct in saying that there was some adjustment for variable compensation costs. And in addition to that, we continue to manage our OpEx in the environment of having challenges on the top line. So we did see some benefit quarter on quarter in professional service and with third parties.

那麼就讓我接受吧。所以你說的對可變薪酬成本進行了一些調整是正確的。除此之外，我們繼續在面臨營收挑戰的環境中管理我們的營運支出。因此，我們確實看到專業服務和第三方的季度效益有所提高。

One thing I would also comment on, you heard us on the call that we do see some slight step-up in our OpEx into the fourth quarter. But that's in support of the qualifications that Colin spoke about in qualifying our customers to be ready to run from our new facility. So it's a critical investment and one that we'll continue to undertake.

我還要評論一件事，您在電話中聽到我們確實看到第四季度的營運支出略有上升。但這是為了支持科林所說的資格，使我們的客戶能夠準備好從我們的新設施運作。因此，這是一項重要的投資，我們將繼續進行。

And Laura, for that particular item, does the expense associated with that actually rise as we get closer to full production of the facility? Or how do we think about the magnitude of that impact between here and full output?

勞拉，對於該特定項目，隨著我們接近設施全面投產，與之相關的費用是否實際上會增加？或者我們如何看待此時產出與全部產出之間的影響程度？

Yes. So I think it's fair to say just as a general statement that yes, as we get closer to full qualification of our customers, there is upward pressure on that investment because before we get to factory qualification, naturally, that's a cost of capital and facility and qualification of the facility and our equipment in it. But post that, as we're working with customers to qualify and ramp on our lines, then we do face upward pressure in OpEx for our growth investments.

是的。因此，我認為可以公平地說，作為一般性聲明，是的，隨著我們越來越接近客戶的全面資質，投資面臨上升壓力，因為在我們獲得工廠資質之前，這自然是資本和設施成本以及設施設備的資質。但值得注意的是，當我們正在與客戶合作以提高我們的生產線資格並擴大生產線時，我們的成長投資確實面臨營運支出的上升壓力。

Got it. Okay. I'll hop back in the queue. Thanks, Colin. Thanks, Laura.

知道了。好的。我會跳回到隊列中。謝謝，科林。謝謝，勞拉。

You're welcome.

不客氣。

Thanks, Craig.

謝謝，克雷格。

(Operator Instructions) Craig Ellis, B. Riley Securities.

（操作員指示）Craig Ellis，B. Riley Securities。

Great. So keeping it going with one or two more.

偉大的。因此，再堅持一兩個。

Keep it going. We're ready. We're ready.

繼續下去。我們準備好了。我們準備好了。

Yeah. On personal electronics, Colin, you mentioned that there was one program that sounded like it had a lower peak than you expected. I just wanted to confirm that from three months ago, I think we were looking at multiple Android programs and an iOS program. Did, in fact, all of those programs ramp in the quarter? And then how do we think about the diversity of your customer base as we go forward from here?

是的。在個人電子產品方面，科林，您提到有一個程式聽起來峰值比您預期的要低。我只是想確認一下，從三個月前開始，我認為我們正在研究多個 Android 程式和一個 iOS 程式。事實上，所有這些項目都在本季有所成長嗎？那麼，當我們繼續前進時，我們如何考慮您的客戶群的多樣性？

Would you expect those programs to be ones that come back in the various selling seasons? Android sometimes different than iOS, but how should we think about the stickiness of those engagements? Thank you.

您預計這些計劃會在各個銷售季節回歸嗎？Android 有時與 iOS 不同，但我們應該如何考慮這些互動的黏性？謝謝。

Okay. Yes. So here's how we're thinking about portable electronics. Key end segment for us, and we really feel confident in our differentiated technology for both high-end phones, high-performing phones, phones that have AI capability and also foldables, which, although they're still a small part of the market, they require different technology to work properly.

好的。是的。這就是我們對便攜式電子產品的看法。對我們來說，關鍵的終端細分市場，我們對高階手機、高效能手機、具有人工智慧功能的手機和可折疊手機的差異化技術充滿信心，儘管它們仍然只佔市場的一小部分，它們需要不同的技術才能正常運作。

So we feel like our suite of product offerings fit very well with this market. And we do have programs across the patch with all the different OEMs, Chinese, Western, and South Korean.

所以我們覺得我們的產品套件非常適合這個市場。我們確實與所有不同的原始設備製造商（中國、西方和韓國）都有跨補丁程序。

As we look at the market, how it's developed to this point in time, it is up overall year over year. Last year was, of course, a 10-year low in handsets sold. And we see the market up 4% to 5% this year. Where we see most of the growth coming though is from, I would say, baseline affordable models with mostly Android packages. And those seem to be growing the fastest.

當我們觀察市場時，它是如何發展到這個時間點的，它總體上逐年上升。當然，去年的手機銷量創下了十年來的新低點。我們預計今年市場將成長 4% 至 5%。我想說的是，我們看到大部分成長來自於主要採用 Android 軟體套件的基準經濟型機型。這些似乎增長最快。

And where we participate more is in those high-end, high-performing phones at the top of the pyramid. And we're still waiting for, I think, the overall AI value proposition of these phones to really catch hold for those types of high-end phones to drive growth. And it's also related, in some cases, to rolling out software packages that work with these phones.

我們更多參與的是金字塔頂端的高階、高效能手機。我認為，我們仍在等待這些手機的整體人工智慧價值主張真正抓住這些類型的高階手機以推動成長。在某些情況下，這也與推出適用於這些手機的軟體包有關。

So when we say, hey, when we were planning this three or four months ago, we had anticipated that ramp to come faster, but due to things like software packages, it's been delayed a bit. And that's why the peak is down a bit for us in Q3, and that has impacted our results versus our guide. Did that answer the question?

因此，當我們說，嘿，當我們三到四個月前計劃這一點時，我們預計斜坡會更快，但由於軟體包等原因，它被推遲了一點。這就是為什麼我們在第三季的高峰有所下降，這影響了我們的結果與我們的指導相比。這回答了問題嗎？

Yeah, that's helpful, Colin. Yeah, that's helpful. As you work with customers and do your technology planning and road mapping, are there things that would onboard into phones as we get more AI capability and content that would drive up Rogers' content in phones, whether they be a traditional phone or a foldable? Or does the content outlook appear fairly stable as you look ahead at what's coming?

是的，這很有幫助，科林。是的，這很有幫助。當您與客戶合作並進行技術規劃和路線圖繪製時，隨著我們獲得更多人工智慧功能和內容，是否有一些東西會加入手機中，從而推動羅傑斯在手機中的內容，無論是傳統手機還是可折疊手機？或者當您展望即將發生的事情時，內容前景是否看起來相當穩定？

In terms of where we participate, our content is strong. And it's related to, I would say, a lot of things. It's our product performance, but it's also our response, our quality and reliability. But I would say we're optimistic about where we go next in terms of phones because as they pack more circuitry and performance in these phones, they need thinner and thinner phone technology.

就我們參與的領域而言，我們的內容很豐富。我想說，這與很多事情有關。這是我們的產品性能，也是我們的回應、我們的品質和可靠性。但我想說，我們對手機的下一步發展持樂觀態度，因為隨著手機包含更多電路和性能，它們需要越來越薄的手機技術。

And not only do we have our urethane branded PORON foam, which is the leader in this space, but we also have another urethane type of home produced from our South Korean facility named eSorba. And we see that beginning to get more traction in the portable electronics space also because of specific characteristics around ultra-thin products that we can deliver with that type of chemistry.

我們不僅擁有聚氨酯品牌的 PORON 泡沫（該領域的領導者），而且我們還擁有由韓國工廠生產的另一種聚氨酯類型的家居，名為 eSorba。我們看到，由於我們可以透過這種化學類型提供超薄產品的特定特性，因此它開始在便攜式電子產品領域獲得更多關注。

So we feel like we're strongly locked in with many of these high-performance phones sold by multiple types of OEMs, but we still see a bit of an upside there in portable electronics as well.

因此，我們覺得我們牢牢鎖定了許多類型的 OEM 銷售的高效能手機，但我們仍然看到便攜式電子產品的一些優勢。

Got it. And then lastly for me, Colin. The business has done a very strong job paying down debt through the first half of the year. And as we go through the back half of the year, despite just really tough macro headwinds with tough global PMIs, you're doing a really nice job building cash.

知道了。最後是我，科林。今年上半年，該公司在償還債務方面表現非常出色。當我們進入今年下半年時，儘管宏觀阻力非常嚴峻，全球採購經理人指數也很嚴峻，但你們在累積現金方面做得非常好。

So the question is, how are you feeling about M&A, both the targeting funnel development potential targets and the ability to execute? And any color on how you would be thinking about your patience, our impatience, and executing something on that front? Thank you.

那麼問題是，您對併購有何看法，無論是目標漏斗開發的潛在目標還是執行能力？您如何看待您的耐心、我們的不耐煩以及在這方面執行的某些措施？謝謝。

Yeah. Great. Good question about the patience piece. So how I would describe that is M&A remains a key pillar of our strategy. And Rogers has had a long history of really, I'd say, strategic, synergistic bolt-on M&A, mostly in the EMS space, but building out our capabilities and also our product lines to better service our customers.

是的。偉大的。關於耐心部分的好問題。因此，我將如何描述併購仍然是我們策略的關鍵支柱。我想說，羅傑斯在策略性、協同性的補強併購方面有著悠久的歷史，主要是在 EMS 領域，但同時也增強了我們的能力和產品線，以更好地服務我們的客戶。

That philosophy remains intact today, and we do have good cash buildup. And we're very keen to move forward with the right acquisition and regain that cadence of M&A.

這種理念至今仍然完好無損，而且我們確實擁有良好的現金累積。我們非常熱衷於推動正確的收購併恢復併購的節奏。

But I think we're also surprised, as are many, that deal space still has been quite slow this year. And that's primarily related to the fact, we believe, that sponsors are just holding on to their properties a bit longer because results haven't been what they had hoped for.

但我認為，與許多人一樣，我們也對今年的交易空間仍然相當緩慢感到驚訝。我們認為，這主要與以下事實有關：贊助商只是將其財產保留得更久一些，因為結果並未達到他們的預期。

So they really would like to see some of these results turn around to drive higher multiples. Nonetheless, I'm very pleased with the work our strategic marketing and BU leaders have put into our tech -- our M&A road map, along with our corp dev group.

因此，他們確實希望看到其中一些結果能夠扭轉局面，從而推動更高的本益比。儘管如此，我對我們的策略行銷和業務部門領導在我們的技術、我們的併購路線圖以及我們的企業開發團隊中所做的工作感到非常滿意。

So we have three or four targets, which are moving towards becoming available. It would be a really interesting fit for Rogers. And we can't rush it. But when the right target emerges, we're prepared to move quickly, not only on acquiring it, but with our integration approach.

所以我們有三、四個目標，正在朝著實現的目標邁進。對於羅傑斯來說，這將是一個非常有趣的契合。我們不能操之過急。但當正確的目標出現時，我們準備迅速採取行動，不僅是收購它，而且是我們的整合方法。

It's going to be still an important piece of our strategy. But we don't want to -- we won't buy something just to buy it. It really has to be the right strategic fit for the company.

這仍然是我們策略的重要組成部分。但我們不想——我們不會只是為了買而買東西。它確實必須適合公司的策略。

Thanks for the candor on that point, Colin.

感謝科林在這一點上的坦誠。

My pleasure.

我的榮幸。

Daniel Moore, CJS Securities.

丹尼爾·摩爾，CJS 證券。

Sorry about that. I thank you again and my last question dovetails with Craig's last, which is Laura -- as Laura mentioned, your financial flexibility continues to increase barring M&A over the next few quarters. Maybe just talk about your appetite for returning cash to shareholders and how you're thinking about being opportunistic as it relates to buybacks versus somewhat more mechanistic. Thank you, again.

對此感到抱歉。我再次感謝您，我的最後一個問題與克雷格的最後一個問題相吻合，即勞拉——正如勞拉提到的，除非在接下來的幾個季度進行併購，否則您的財務靈活性將繼續增加。也許只是談談您對向股東返還現金的興趣，以及您如何考慮在回購方面採取機會主義而不是更加機械化。再次謝謝你。

Sure. Dan, so you're right insofar as opportunistic. As we've stated, we've got a very clear capital allocation strategy. And the first of that is ensuring that we're strongly positioned to execute organic growth opportunities. There's many of those as you -- as we've discussed, in flight with our investments and with our technology and pipeline expansion opportunities.

當然。丹，所以就機會主義而言你是對的。正如我們所說，我們有非常明確的資本配置策略。首先是確保我們有能力抓住有機成長機會。正如我們所討論的，有很多人像您一樣，利用我們的投資、技術和管道擴張機會。

We'll continue, as we've stated, on our M&A objectives. But thirdly, we will look at opportunistic share buyback. And that's going to be contingent on how all three of those are interplaying at any point in time in addition to the market conditions. So we'll continue to evaluate it and execute based on our priorities as we see fit.

正如我們所說，我們將繼續實現我們的併購目標。但第三，我們將研究機會性股票回購。除了市場狀況之外，這還取決於這三者在任何時間點如何相互作用。因此，我們將繼續對其進行評估，並根據我們認為合適的優先事項執行。

Very helpful. And last is just trying to pull at that string from an earlier question about the -- sizing the opportunity of curamik for the new facility in China, not necessarily just revenue TAM, but how much of that incremental volume do you expect to be truly incremental to your business versus maybe shifting from one locale to another? Just trying to get a sense for what the -- how much of the incremental volume that will come out is actually a net benefit. Thank you, again.

非常有幫助。最後，我想從之前的問題中得出結論——評估 curamik 在中國新工廠的機會，不一定只是收入 TAM，而是您預計增量中有多少是真正增量的到您的業務還是從一個地區轉移到另一個地區？只是想了解增量數量中有多少實際上是淨收益。再次謝謝你。

I think the way we're looking at it, Dan, is there is a baseload of business there already. And of course, there is because we've been selling into China for years. We sell two types of technology that goes all over the world for power modules.

丹，我認為我們看待這個問題的方式是，那裡已經有一定的業務量了。當然，這是因為我們多年來一直向中國銷售產品。我們銷售兩種適用於世界各地的電源模組技術。

Part of it would be our AMB, which is our high-powered technology that goes into silicon carbide. We also have a large business in curamik of a different technology. The technologies are different because it's really how you just stick copper onto curamik, and that's called DBC.

其中一部分是我們的 AMB，這是我們應用於碳化矽的高性能技術。我們也擁有大量採用不同技術的 curamik 業務。這些技術是不同的，因為實際上是將銅貼在 curamik 上，這就是所謂的 DBC。

So for the time being, we'll still provide our DBC technology into China from Eschenbach, and there is a smaller amount of volume at the moment on AMB because the silicon carbide power module business is just building. So there's a small base load, but we see a lot of that business coming from China as being additional to what we currently have.

所以目前我們還是會從Eschenbach向中國提供DBC技術，目前AMB的量較小，因為碳化矽功率模組業務剛剛建立。因此，基本負荷很小，但我們看到很多來自中國的業務是我們目前業務的補充。

Very helpful. Thank you, again.

非常有幫助。再次謝謝你。

Our pleasure.

我們的榮幸。

Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to pass the call back over to Colin for closing remarks.

謝謝。目前沒有其他問題。我想將電話轉回給科林，讓他作結束語。

Thank you and thanks, all, for joining. And we look forward to several of the follow-ups we have coming up over the next several days. But, again, thanks for taking time to join our quarterly call.

謝謝大家的加入。我們期待在接下來的幾天內推出一些後續行動。但是，再次感謝您抽出時間參加我們的季度電話會議。

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines.

今天的電話會議到此結束。您可以斷開線路。